IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-12-06

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andre___	GeneralAntilles, maybe you could stand at the bugzilla entrance tomorrow and tell everybody who wants to enter "come back with better clothing in 6 hours, you can't enter here looking like that"	00:00
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GeneralAntilles	"We're trying to ritz up the place, GTFO."	00:01
Stskeeps	we're getting hello kitty theme for bugzilla?	00:02
GeneralAntilles	Oh god	00:02
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GeneralAntilles	andre__, pleaaaase? :D	00:02
GeneralAntilles	That would make a fantastic april fools	00:02
andre__	GeneralAntilles, yes. I'm backporting that from GNOME Bugzilla, see: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=112504&action=view	00:03
lcuk	old though	00:03
lcuk	omg ponies! beat everything	00:03
woglinde	he	00:03
woglinde	he lcuk	00:03
Stskeeps	andre__: hah	00:03
lcuk	hiya woglinde	00:03
lcuk	im not meant to be here	00:03
* lcuk is sufferin withdrawal symptoms though		00:04
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andre__	I also plan to change the start page to look like this maybe: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=112524&action=view	00:04
GeneralAntilles	Hello Kitty would definitely send the message that maemo.org is no longer a Nokia site. :D	00:04
GeneralAntilles	Hiya, konttori!	00:04
andre__	we all love MS Word, don't we?	00:04
Stskeeps	andre__: :>	00:05
GeneralAntilles	I don't think I've used Word in at least 3 years.	00:05
andre__	me neither	00:05
* GeneralAntilles wonders how we can con Nokia into paying INdT to put together a Hello Kitty theme. . . .		00:06
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, when they come through with the new page design it will be css anyway	00:06
woglinde	uwahaha	00:06
lcuk	you can skin it yourself	00:06
Stskeeps	n900 with hello kitty cover..	00:07
Stskeeps	that'd sell.	00:07
Stskeeps	:P	00:07
lcuk	http://www.metlin.org/content/blog/omgponies.jpg	00:07
lcuk	that was slash a while back	00:07
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, the key words to pay attention to there are "Nokia" and "paying". :P	00:07
lcuk	shouldnt they be paying me or you to do it :P :D	00:07
GeneralAntilles	Maddox did a OMG ponies/Hello Kitty theme for April Fool's one year.	00:07
lcuk	mind you, you would do it for free	00:08
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GeneralAntilles	I do everything for free. :(	00:08
lcuk	i know, you are a cheap date	00:08
GeneralAntilles	Maybe I'll get lucky like the French did for the N810s and get a free tablet. :P	00:09
* lcuk buys gen another drink		00:09
lcuk	if oyu put your tablets close enough they mate	00:09
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GeneralAntilles	Maybe if I leave the Beagle lying around it'll be an N900? :P	00:09
Stskeeps	so maemo summit, was actually an orgy, lcuk?	00:09
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lcuk	im quite sure there was	00:10
lcuk	some of the nokians kept emerging from rooms looking very flustered	00:10
andre__	if i could only remember anything from Maemo summit... :-P	00:10
lcuk	right, im goin for real now, but im not disconnecting	00:11
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m-c-	Hello hackers -- I am trying to do the Easy Debian Turbo-Charged Edition, and the first step is getting easy-deb-chroot from Extras. This package is not showing up in my Application Manager, and when I try to click the link on the ITT forum, I get an error that the package is not found. I feel like I am missing something obvious - am I using an incorrect Maemo version? Or on the other hand, is it just not there? http://repository.m	00:30
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Stskeeps	m-c-: feel free to split up in multiple lines :P	00:30
m-c-	:)	00:31
lcuk	i think its kinda cute how its a wall of text	00:31
woglinde	haha	00:31
woglinde	how cute	00:31
ShadowJK	Those damn ircd coders and their arbitrary limits ;)	00:31
andre__	"http://repository." misses a verb.	00:31
woglinde	qtnx and nx are working on the freerunner	00:31
woglinde	and no problem with the illumne keyboard	00:31
lcuk	m-c-, the best person to ask would be qole, he is very regulat on internettablettalk and since easy debian is his he could guide you - but you have read the howto posting i gather	00:32
Stskeeps	w00t: get freenode to allow more than 512 characters in a message!	00:32
Stskeeps	:P	00:32
m-c-	lcuk: okay, I will shoot him a PM there - thanks!!	00:33
lcuk	freenode is 420 i believe	00:33
Stskeeps	m-c-: there's also long threads about easy debian, probably better to prod there	00:33
Stskeeps	lcuk: yeah, but when speaking ircd coder to ircd coder, a message is the entire thing :P	00:33
lcuk	m-c-, read the thread first, it would be inpolite to just pm him if you havent at least tried	00:33
m-c-	Stskeeps: 39 pages of messages in that thread!	00:34
Stskeeps	yeah..	00:34
Stskeeps	:P	00:34
w00t	Stskeeps: stop being so full of hot air! :P	00:34
lcuk	m-c-, i know that feeling, if you are still alive after that, you should try liqbase	00:34
lcuk	its only 25	00:34
Stskeeps	w00t: but the fast food was so good..	00:34
lcuk	mind you most people have fun by just watching the video here http://liqbase.net/ and then playing themselves	00:35
Stskeeps	w00t: you should fear my image builder..	00:35
m-c-	but you dont think I am missing something obvious with failing to install easy-deb-chroot? I thought it was a popular package	00:35
Stskeeps	m-c-: there's nothing ordinary about the package, either	00:35
Stskeeps	:P	00:36
m-c-	:) okay, thanks for your responses.	00:36
lcuk	and thanks for splitting up the rest of your lines	00:36
lcuk	(incidentally, try liqbase if you just want to relax)	00:36
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GeneralAntilles	39 pages isn't all that long.	00:41
GeneralAntilles	You can get through that in 10-15 minutes if you scan.	00:41
m-c-	I'd be nice if a page actually fit on the browser page, without having to scroll down. Would make it faster. Auto-pagination. Imagine.	00:42
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m-c-	;-)	00:42
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GeneralAntilles	Then it'd be 390 pages	00:43
m-c-	Alternatively putting all the messages on one page...	00:43
lcuk	and using liqbase autoscrolling ;)	00:44
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lcuk	you could probably make some autoscript to grab next page when you reach the bottom	00:45
lcuk	ive seen it on some sites	00:45
lcuk	http://www.dzone.com/links/index.html	00:45
lcuk	that has it - scroll down steadily when you get ~ 40 it loads the next set	00:45
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zakkm	on vlc's changelog it mentions an official maemo port?	00:46
zakkm	Maemo Port:	00:47
zakkm	* New Maemo port with:	00:47
zakkm	- an interface based on Hildon framework.	00:47
zakkm	- scaler based on the swscale_nokia770 library.	00:47
zakkm	where abouts would i find that?	00:47
woglinde	what the hack is swscale_nokia770 library?	00:47
zakkm	software scaling?	00:47
zakkm	for nokia n770?	00:47
zakkm	no idea what that is.. but i believe swscale = software scaling	00:47
woglinde	I dont want to know what it is really doing	00:48
zakkm	but apparantly its official now?	00:48
Stskeeps	scales your porn for you	00:48
Stskeeps	:P	00:48
m-c-	Looks like other people are having problems getting the easy-deb-chroot, too, according to the message thread (ty, G.A. :)	00:48
zakkm	Stskeeps always knows how to get the most of his handheld devices	00:49
andre__	garr... at least i find inconsistencies before running into problems tomorrow. good choice.	00:49
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Stskeeps	zakkm: saw a funny thread on an iphone forum..	00:49
zakkm	Stskeeps: installing deblet now by the way, use neighbors wifi and its barely on	00:49
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zakkm	what it say?	00:50
Stskeeps	something about the success of any given smartphone depends on the feasibility of watching porn on it..	00:50
zakkm	lol	00:50
zakkm	btw is "installing deblet " a bash script?	00:50
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Stskeeps	nop, python script	00:51
Stskeeps	the new image builder for mer is shell though	00:51
Stskeeps	but less user friendly :P	00:51
zakkm	kept wanting to fail on me and i dont wanna keep starting from beginning ;p	00:51
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Stskeeps	mm	00:51
zakkm	thought i could just edit, delete the top part of script.. and run * proper cutting *	00:51
zakkm	seems all good now though so far	00:51
zakkm	i chose keblet-basic ?	00:51
Stskeeps	no idea if keblet works	00:52
zakkm	is it usable? performance wise	00:52
Stskeeps	i only used lxde myself	00:52
zakkm	ah	00:52
Stskeeps	and our xfce back when we had it	00:52
zakkm	was so slow for me in easy debian ;p	00:52
zakkm	lxde	00:52
zakkm	well on nokia	00:52
zakkm	on pc... damn fast	00:52
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zakkm	wow getting 352kb/s with neighbors wifi	00:53
Stskeeps	lxde was fast on deblet, i think	00:53
zakkm	can i just apt-get that later?	00:53
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Stskeeps	technically yeah	00:54
zakkm	Stskeeps: Note, selecting tablet-hw-n8x0-support instead of tablet-hw-rx-34-support	00:54
Stskeeps	that's fine	00:54
zakkm	is it suppose to say that?	00:54
Stskeeps	yes	00:54
Stskeeps	rx-34 is n800 :P	00:54
zakkm	does it use xinitrc?	00:54
zakkm	i have n800 ?	00:54
Stskeeps	nop, kdm	00:54
zakkm	oh really	00:54
zakkm	full desktop manager?	00:54
zakkm	login manager*	00:54
Stskeeps	yeah, but you hardly see it	00:54
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* Stskeeps plans on having mer being a tad more sane.		00:55
zakkm	battery is most important :)	00:55
Stskeeps	yeah.. and there's hope in that area	00:55
zakkm	even maemo's battery life is okay	00:55
GeneralAntilles	andre__, watch the DB server's going down tomorrow. :P	00:55
zakkm	GeneralAntilles: you heard anything about the vlc official maemo port?	00:56
andre__	GeneralAntilles, I hope that Nokia guy who will change the apache.conf really gets up at 11AM finnish time ;-)	00:56
zakkm	on their changelog, it mentions one	00:56
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, official from VLC?	00:56
GeneralAntilles	Dunno.	00:56
zakkm	yeah	00:56
Stskeeps	andre__: doesn't finnish people sleep in on saturdays after heavy vodka drinking the evening before? ;>	00:57
zakkm	http://www.videolan.org/developers/vlc/NEWS	00:57
zakkm	under mac osx interface	00:57
GeneralAntilles	andre__, he's in the process of getting more drunk than he's ever been in his life.	00:57
zakkm	Maemo Port:	00:57
zakkm	* New Maemo port with:	00:57
zakkm	- an interface based on Hildon framework.	00:57
zakkm	- scaler based on the swscale_nokia770 library.	00:57
andre__	Stskeeps, exactly. but i plan the same for tonight ;-)	00:57
GeneralAntilles	He's gonna redirect to something horrible	00:57
andre__	www.hello-kitty.com ?	00:57
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, interesting.	00:57
zakkm	neve rheard of it	00:57
zakkm	i cant seem to find a package or anything	00:58
Stskeeps	zakkm: it's in their git probably	00:58
zakkm	damn , i deleted linux	00:58
zakkm	is their git on mac, does anyone know	00:58
zakkm	like without messing with installing stuff	00:59
zakkm	wow deblet takes ages to install	00:59
Stskeeps	yup	00:59
Stskeeps	it really takes that time to debootstrap :P	00:59
Stskeeps	which is why firmware images aren't always such a bad thing..	00:59
mikkov_	zakkm: http://wiki.videolan.org/SoC_2008/New_VLC_interface_for_Maemo	01:00
mikkov_	http://code.google.com/p/google-summer-of-code-2008-videolan/downloads/detail?name=Antoine_Lejeune.tar.gz&can=2&q=	01:00
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andre__	ok, done. i think i'm prepared for tomorrow. now time to go to a drum'n'bass club :) gnight everybody!	01:00
Stskeeps	enjoy, andre__	01:00
zakkm	Here are some quick ideas :	01:00
zakkm	* Interact with the built-in webcam easily	01:00
zakkm	* streaming	01:00
zakkm	* easy-playing of youtube video	01:00
Stskeeps	Yet Another Media Center for Maemo? :P	01:00
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zakkm	i think canola might win	01:03
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Stskeeps	i tried mediabox today.. it annoyed me a tiny bit with lacking "select random track", and stopping occasionally	01:03
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Stskeeps	quite inventive user interface though	01:03
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zakkm	is there a good way to make a media server on my home pc	01:04
zakkm	and then my nokia streaming video?	01:04
zakkm	not the orb method	01:04
Stskeeps	think there's some stuff mentioned on wiki	01:05
zakkm	ohgroup hal does not exist	01:05
zakkm	loll	01:05
zakkm	userdel: user hal does not exist	01:05
Stskeeps	that's ok usually	01:07
Stskeeps	as long as it doesn't die	01:07
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zakkm	i know, its bad package managing though	01:08
zakkm	theres never a user hal ;p is there?	01:08
RST38h	Meanwhile: S&P Cuts Moto's Rating to Junk	01:09
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samd__	hey	01:09
lcuk	damn you RST38h, but it was something norty	01:09
lcuk	just not anything hijackthis could help with	01:10
samd__	anyone experienced on how to install maemo sdk and scratchbox in ubuntu amd64	01:10
woglinde	samd__ look in the wiki	01:10
woglinde	and there was latly a thread on ht mailinglist	01:11
RST38h	lcuk: Did you fix it?	01:11
samd__	woglinde, ight, letme take a look, the worst case, ill just install it in a virtual machine	01:11
Stskeeps	zakkm: sure there is.. i think	01:11
zakkm	there could be a group hal	01:12
zakkm	but a user?	01:12
Stskeeps	you never know	01:12
Stskeeps	:P	01:12
zakkm	group hal would make sense, .. guest = wouldnt get hal .. keeps it very restricted	01:12
Stskeeps	there's also a 'nsa' user.	01:12
Stskeeps	:P	01:12
zakkm	but seems pointless as a user	01:12
lcuk	RST38h, yes, and the file class in question which was norty comes up with 1 hit in google	01:12
zakkm	and why would installing hal want to know if there is	01:12
Stskeeps	cos it needs to assign permissions probably	01:13
lcuk	it was hiding within my firefox program folder, it was not profile related but general chrome. it survived reinstalls and only vanished with an uninstall + delete/rename of the folder	01:13
zakkm	wow omg its still extracting .deb's	01:13
zakkm	lcuk : sandbox :)	01:14
zakkm	sandboxie :D	01:14
Stskeeps	zakkm: i'm glaring at a debootstrap, stop whining =P	01:14
zakkm	lol	01:14
zakkm	neighbor will shut off wifi soon, i want it finished tonight	01:15
Stskeeps	hehe	01:15
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* Stskeeps ponders if the gf left the bacon snacks at home or took them along to berlin.		01:17
woglinde	hehe	01:17
* lcuk reconsiders having bacon as a highlight word		01:17
Stskeeps	excellent!	01:17
woglinde	didnt see any bacon snacks here	01:18
* Stskeeps munches		01:18
zakkm	python 3.0 went stable! :P yay	01:18
lcuk	i was coding happily	01:18
zakkm	lol	01:18
woglinde	so next step is testing ubifs	01:18
lcuk	zakkm, do i still have to wait for service pack 3	01:18
lcuk	once people start using it for real	01:18
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lcuk	next thing you know, we will be playin duke nukem forever	01:18
zakkm	sp3 of what?	01:19
Stskeeps	woglinde: solca has new kernel for n8x0.. start playing? :P	01:19
woglinde	stskeep nope I will test it on my simpad	01:19
woglinde	but before I have to ported some patches to 2.6.27	01:20
lcuk	zakkm, python	01:20
zakkm	dont kno	01:20
zakkm	i read the distrowatch package releases :P	01:20
zakkm	http://www.python.org/download/releases/3.0/	01:20
lcuk	anyway, back later	01:20
woglinde	lcuk see you	01:20
zakkm	is it worth using an alternate kernel, than the default NIT one?	01:20
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zakkm	or alternately configured, i suppose	01:21
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Stskeeps	not yet	01:21
samd__	any recomendations on a irc for maemo? (nokia n810)	01:21
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qwerty12_N800	xcha	01:22
qwerty12_N800	+t	01:22
GeneralAntilles	^	01:22
samd__	ight, thanks	01:22
lcuk	how is babby formed?	01:22
zakkm	IRSSI	01:22
zakkm	:)	01:22
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woglinde	he qwerty12_N800 how is andorid going?	01:28
m-c-	big announcement today about Android 1.0, huh?	01:29
m-c-	no wifi though --	01:30
qwerty12_N800	woglinde, ask solca or Meizkki :). tried out nthcode's release and got pissed and put me off android :)	01:30
m-c-	http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3641439368.html	01:31
m-c-	does not sound good qwerty12_N800 :)	01:31
Stskeeps	m-c-: they ought to pay some donations to qwerty12	01:31
qwerty12_N800	m-c-, oh, nthcode's work us good if you have an N810, just not worth trying on an N800	01:31
qwerty12_N800	s/us/is/	01:32
infobot	qwerty12_N800 meant: m-c-, oh, nthcode's work is good if you have an N810, just not worth trying on an N800	01:32
m-c-	I emailed him that exact question earlier today qwerty12_N800	01:32
hellwolf	Is there any snes simulator available on maemo?	01:32
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m-c-	got a response back on ITT from qole -- I was on the wrong version -- need to flash to latest firmware	01:32
m-c-	re: easy-deb-chroot	01:32
Stskeeps	alright	01:32
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: you should name yourself QWERTY-12 from now on	01:33
Stskeeps	:P	01:33
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, hehe :P	01:33
woglinde	why the hack they didnt use the opensource driver	01:34
qwerty12_N800	only if you call yourself STS-KEEPS :P	01:34
woglinde	cant understand	01:34
woglinde	stskeeps g	01:34
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: that'd get people to actually call me sts..	01:34
Stskeeps	:P	01:34
woglinde	hm should I apply for linuxdevices too	01:34
woglinde	but he I have no blog	01:35
qwerty12_N800	woglinde, the kernel they ported the android patches doesn't support the oss wifi driver	01:35
woglinde	qwerty12?????	01:35
woglinde	because of the ugly pm google did?	01:35
qwerty12_N800	woglinde, no, i'm chatting shit, please ignore me :)	01:37
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lcuk	take a look at this page (the content isnt important) http://stackoverflow.com/questions/146657/c-header-file-loops	01:54
lcuk	at the bottom its got a posting area just like itT	01:54
lcuk	but it has a tickbox to mark in community wiki	01:54
lcuk	this would be an excellent idea for itt	01:55
lcuk	to allow postings in the forum to be promoted and kept in sync with the real wiki topic	01:55
lcuk	mm	01:55
* Stskeeps watches the black console		01:57
Stskeeps	watching Mer install isn't that horridly exciting	01:58
lcuk	you should install psdoom	01:59
lcuk	or something similar for package installation progress	01:59
Stskeeps	tetris..	01:59
Stskeeps	:P	01:59
lcuk	but using console words	01:59
zakkm	Stskeeps	02:00
zakkm	problem	02:00
zakkm	i picked gtk and i couldnt select anything for tablet user/ password	02:01
zakkm	cause im on n800, and it didnt work for me to type	02:01
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Stskeeps	"GTK gives you a pretty user interface for the questions (see http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit-debian/debconf-gtk.png), but if you don't own a keyboard for/on your tablet, don't use it."	02:01
Stskeeps	:P	02:01
zakkm	i know, but its too late	02:02
zakkm	lol	02:02
Stskeeps	(feel free to shout things at me :P)	02:02
zakkm	its too late	02:02
zakkm	:(	02:02
zakkm	i dont wanna restart the installer	02:02
Stskeeps	wait half a week when we start having mer more possible to play with :P	02:02
zakkm	im very impatient :)	02:03
zakkm	what happens in half a week?	02:03
Stskeeps	i expect to be a little further than just booting a console system :P	02:03
* Stskeeps is a bit impatient himself, waiting for fremantle alpha sdk		02:03
zakkm	console works?	02:04
zakkm	got up to console ?	02:04
Stskeeps	we have X+hildon etc as well, in a previous iteration	02:04
Stskeeps	and yeah, i had console going earlier tonight	02:04
zakkm	install lxde ;p	02:04
zakkm	forget about hildon :P	02:05
Stskeeps	yeah, but then it'd just be a ubuntu port.. :P	02:05
Stskeeps	and run into same problems as deblet	02:05
GeneralAntilles	Desktop DEs make zero sense on the tablets. <_<	02:05
Stskeeps	and the idea is LXDE would run as well on Mer. as well as KDE, .. etc	02:05
Stskeeps	if people want it	02:06
Stskeeps	but default setup is hildon, obviously	02:06
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* GeneralAntilles bursts.		02:07
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Stskeeps	heh	02:07
* Stskeeps likes hildon better but for some things a desktop DE is "ok"		02:07
GeneralAntilles	Too much food.	02:07
Stskeeps	and there's always going to be people who want to paint the bikeshed a different colour	02:08
zakkm	lol	02:08
GeneralAntilles	Blue!	02:08
GeneralAntilles	BLUUUEEEEE!	02:08
zakkm	desktop DE's are fine :P	02:08
zakkm	hildon is too slow	02:08
zakkm	:D	02:08
GeneralAntilles	Erm?	02:08
GeneralAntilles	Desktop DEs are FASTER now? :\	02:08
zakkm	lol	02:08
zakkm	i want fluxbox , honestly	02:08
zakkm	but yeah	02:08
GeneralAntilles	Er	02:09
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: speed vs functionality ratio probably is less than hildons :P	02:09
zakkm	hildon is slow for me	02:09
zakkm	think i bloated it too much	02:10
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: your beagle still dead btw?	02:10
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, I gave it another swing yesterday, was gonna ask you if you could give me a tarball to turn it into a build machine if I managed to revive it	02:10
GeneralAntilles	but no progress. :\	02:10
jrayhawk	Well, it's probably not 'bloat', per se, but integration with a huge pile of helper programs.	02:10
Stskeeps	busted boot loader or, ?	02:11
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, busted bootloader	02:11
GeneralAntilles	and the Beagle documentation still sucks	02:11
* Stskeeps is not 100% fond of beagle yet after weird problems with it		02:12
Stskeeps	it stands offline at my work atm too	02:12
GeneralAntilles	The software (kernel especially) really needs some time to stabilize.	02:12
GeneralAntilles	It's fantastic if you want to play with that sort of stuff, but not great for getting stuff done.	02:13
woglinde	ga hm?	02:13
Stskeeps	yeah	02:13
zakkm	how much was the beagle?	02:13
GeneralAntilles	$150	02:13
GeneralAntilles	Which makes it about the cheapest ARM development kit around.	02:13
* zakkm paid $145 for nokia		02:13
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Stskeeps	i think i'm going to use my work's n800 for new kernel experiments & mer	02:14
Stskeeps	as i use my own actively	02:14
* disco_stu thinks GeneralAntilles should donate one to disco_stu		02:14
zakkm	OMAP3530 processor delivers laptop-like performance at handheld power levels	02:14
woglinde	hm we have lot of stuff at work	02:14
woglinde	today a gumstick board arvies	02:14
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zakkm	it has the new omap thats suppose to be in the new nokia's?	02:14
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Stskeeps	yeah	02:14
woglinde	and I have to time to play with them	02:14
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, more or less.	02:14
GeneralAntilles	It'll be the OMAP3430	02:14
GeneralAntilles	Which is for larger production runs, and includes some more proprietary stuff.	02:15
zakkm	you think it might make a good server?	02:15
zakkm	or should i just go x86?	02:15
jrayhawk	define "good"	02:15
zakkm	price vs performance	02:15
zakkm	not amount of dev work	02:16
GeneralAntilles	Well, storage interfaces are limited	02:16
GeneralAntilles	Connectivity can be a pain	02:16
zakkm	i saw a SD attached to it	02:16
GeneralAntilles	I mean, if you want something to invest a lot of time screwing around with	02:16
zakkm	i want a media server for my nokia, and some other stuff	02:16
GeneralAntilles	it's great	02:16
Stskeeps	zakkm: if i had it not eating MMC's for breakfast, and the ubuntu kernels providing OTG/pepherial for USBnet, i wouldn't mind..	02:16
GeneralAntilles	but if you want something that just works, it's not the right answer.	02:16
jrayhawk	define "price"	02:16
zakkm	highschool student budget	02:16
Stskeeps	zakkm: atom board is probably more sane to get	02:17
zakkm	i have that	02:17
zakkm	the d945gclf	02:17
jrayhawk	okay, if you're not paying for power, x86 will always win out	02:17
zakkm	only recently upgraded my desktop from that	02:17
Stskeeps	i have gclf2 at work and i hate it. intel driver fucks up immensely on tv-out	02:17
zakkm	lol	02:17
Stskeeps	rolling picture	02:17
zakkm	never tried tv-out	02:17
zakkm	apparnatly the "2" is only like 15% faster ;p	02:17
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, ARM's advantage is power consumption	02:17
GeneralAntilles	So if you're not running it off a battery, just get x86.	02:17
zakkm	yeah, would be attached to wall	02:18
jrayhawk	ARM also has the Java advantage.	02:18
zakkm	which is?	02:18
GeneralAntilles	If you've already got the Atom, it sounds like you have what you need. ;)	02:18
jrayhawk	The fancier ARM instruction sets support native Java execution.	02:19
zakkm	the d945gclf suppose to take alot of power though	02:19
zakkm	despite being atom	02:19
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disco_stu	jrayhawk: what java advantage ?	02:19
zakkm	used to use it for mac osx x86 support, the d945gclf/lf2 , have perfect mac support	02:19
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, the chipsets that go with the Atom are the killers at this point. :\	02:19
zakkm	made a nice mac box	02:19
Stskeeps	woo, "ubuntu jaunty (development branch) Nokia-N800-23-14"	02:19
zakkm	?	02:20
Stskeeps	tty1, login:	02:20
Stskeeps	:P	02:20
zakkm	what that mean?	02:20
zakkm	;o	02:20
zakkm	you already said you had console?	02:20
Stskeeps	means my image baker worked	02:20
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disco_stu	jrayhawk: n800 has it ?	02:20
Stskeeps	yeah, previously i reused my old installer for iteration 1, now i made a new more.. insane one	02:20
zakkm	stskeeps: suggestion,... use the + and - from volume	02:20
zakkm	to go from tty1-7 :P	02:20
zakkm	the hardware + and -	02:20
Stskeeps	hehe.. i don't intend to use console much	02:20
Stskeeps	got a n800 so	02:21
zakkm	yeah	02:21
zakkm	me too	02:21
zakkm	sounds nice though	02:21
zakkm	cause some might use console and like irssi and stuff	02:21
zakkm	would make it nice and barebone , or not even start X at all	02:21
zakkm	"fullscreen" does startx :P	02:21
zakkm	plus and minus = change tty	02:21
jrayhawk	I forget what the OMAP stuff is; cat /proc/cpuinfo and find out if it's ARMv5 or above.	02:22
disco_stu	jrayhawk: n800 has java caps ?	02:22
disco_stu	it says java	02:22
Stskeeps	jrayhawk: armv6 i think	02:22
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Stskeeps	the nokia tablets	02:22
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: http://tinyurl.com/5vu3uk	02:22
lcuk	omap2420 has jazelle opcode mode, but no framework around it	02:22
disco_stu	jrayhawk: its v6 and says java	02:23
disco_stu	what does it mean ?	02:23
Stskeeps	(how to describe a firmware image target, in this file, targeting a folder)	02:23
jrayhawk	It means that there are execution modes for executing native JVM bytecode.	02:23
disco_stu	wow	02:24
disco_stu	its a shame we dont exploit that capabilites	02:24
zakkm	exploit.. lol	02:24
Stskeeps	disco_stu: trade secret stuff :P	02:24
lcuk	i can think of more visible things which could be exploited	02:24
zakkm	never heard of using cpu's ability, exploting	02:24
zakkm	so does that mean java apps will start appearing? :P	02:24
zakkm	MER java edition :P	02:25
lcuk	tell that to mey intel celeron 300a	02:25
disco_stu	whatever	02:25
Stskeeps	.. openjdk and cacao	02:25
lcuk	ooo	02:25
jrayhawk	I do not know why you would bother since the majority of the Linux ecosystem already runs fine on native ARM instruction sets.	02:25
disco_stu	terms of speed i guess	02:26
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* Stskeeps ponders idly how much power this blinking cursor takes on the tablet..		02:29
Stskeeps	(on a non-blanking screen on a console.. :P)	02:29
GeneralAntilles	More than zero?	02:29
Stskeeps	i swear, the first thing i'm going to change in mer is the behaviour of when charger is inserted..	02:31
Stskeeps	so it's possible to move from the animation to hildon in a buttonpush	02:31
zakkm	how can i get adbock ?	02:31
zakkm	on diablo?	02:32
GeneralAntilles	Don't bother	02:32
GeneralAntilles	IT sucks	02:32
GeneralAntilles	CSS/Hosts	02:32
zakkm	okay	02:32
zakkm	trying to think of ways to speed it up	02:32
zakkm	;p	02:32
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Ad_blocking	02:32
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: if you're bored eventually, a simple list of included apps for a community distribution.. where we exclude everything closed source from nokia	02:33
Stskeeps	like, in the initial firmware image	02:34
zakkm	is havaplayer any good?	02:34
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Stskeeps	just so we have some kind of "goal" to work towards	02:34
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, there are some sync issues with long term viewing	02:34
zakkm	ohh how do i install garnet-vm? :P	02:34
GeneralAntilles	but it works really nicely otherwise	02:34
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, like the wiki page, but with everything?	02:34
zakkm	do one of you have a hava box for tv?	02:35
Stskeeps	(and apologies for any typos or weird sentences, i'm quite sleepy :)	02:35
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woglinde	hm anyone know how to get packages into sdk?	02:36
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, yes, I have the Platinum	02:36
zakkm	wanna stream me live tv? :P lol	02:36
GeneralAntilles	Works great	02:36
woglinde	because I will start to get cacao with classpath into maemo	02:37
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: i forgot the url for the community edition again, what i'm seeking after is basically a list of apps/control panels/applets/etc that are OSS that should be on a community firmware image of Mer	02:37
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woglinde	but some packages only needed for sdk	02:37
Stskeeps	within reasonable limits of flash space	02:37
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_Community_distribution	02:37
Stskeeps	so we can use that list to see how close to acting like maemo we are	02:37
zakkm	thinks wget should be in this mer :D	02:37
Stskeeps	zakkm: think it is :P	02:38
zakkm	ok good :P	02:39
zakkm	ohh	02:40
zakkm	there is a way to do copy link .. from microb	02:40
zakkm	to clipboard	02:40
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zakkm	is there a list of all maemo skins somewhere?	02:42
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zakkm	would chinook apps work okay in diablo?	02:44
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jrayhawk	I think emdebian is also working on the coreutils/busybox agnosticism problem in Debian	02:47
jrayhawk	It would probably be a good idea to look into their discussions and start stealing as many good ideas as your wiki can hold.	02:48
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Stskeeps	jrayhawk: mm, for now we go with coreutils.. helps more than it hurts atm	02:49
Stskeeps	mm, bed. gnite	02:51
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zakkm	anyone here heard of ettercap?	02:53
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zakkm	does the menus have a "max" ?	03:23
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bef0rd	max number of items?	03:26
zakkm	like in extrax	03:27
zakkm	cause i keep adding it to go on forever	03:27
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bef0rd	hi	07:43
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WormFood	anyone get all the way through hex-a-bop? that fuckin' game is so hard, playing it is like work	07:47
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disco_stu	WormFood: never played it, is it good ?	07:48
WormFood	hey corq-FL, where abouts in florida are you from?	07:48
WormFood	I find it rather enjoyable, for the most part, but some of the levels are just crazy hard	07:49
WormFood	it appears there is 100 levels...I'm not 100% sure about that....but every level I complete, it says I'm that percentage done...20 levels = 20% finished	07:49
WormFood	I like good logic puzzles	07:50
disco_stu	i'll install it	07:50
WormFood	I always enjoyed logic puzzles as a kid	07:51
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disco_stu	i rather prefer fps	07:52
disco_stu	lol	07:52
WormFood	I find most FPS boring	07:52
disco_stu	numptyphysics is also good to play on NIT's	07:52
WormFood	DN3D was fun, as was Unreal Tournament (the original one), and the first quake	07:52
WormFood	yeah, that is fun too, but not enough levels	07:52
GeneralAntilles	We need to start a tablet-only server for Q3 when the N900 comes out. . . .	07:53
WormFood	also, I have creative ways win on numptyphysics, that isn't always what the designer envisioned	07:53
disco_stu	yeah	07:54
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GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, ping.	08:03
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andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles whats up	08:11
GeneralAntilles	So, about minimalist	08:12
andrewfblack	yeah I want to redue it for new site	08:12
andrewfblack	full features	08:12
GeneralAntilles	The new maemo.org theme for itT is going to be a _LOT_ lighter than itT's existing theme.	08:12
andrewfblack	light enough to only need one theme	08:12
GeneralAntilles	INdT is currently working on the design right now	08:12
GeneralAntilles	Well, probably, but choice doesn't hurt. ;)	08:13
GeneralAntilles	Hang on, let me grab a link	08:13
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Image:HOME510.png	08:13
andrewfblack	I just love 1 with no images at all for use over cell phone	08:13
GeneralAntilles	That's the latest mockup.	08:13
GeneralAntilles	So, if you either want to update minimalist's colors and header to match that	08:14
GeneralAntilles	or get on maemo-community and discuss the changes	08:14
GeneralAntilles	But, yeah, I think it should be an option.	08:14
andrewfblack	cool	08:14
andrewfblack	I'll work on a redesign I really don't like the menu I have for minimalist theme right now either	08:16
GeneralAntilles	I'd recommend subscribing to maemo-community (if you aren't already) and discussing it some there	08:16
andrewfblack	ok	08:16
GeneralAntilles	As you'll likely get a lot of input.	08:16
GeneralAntilles	But I definitely think it should be included.	08:17
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, actually, my initial thought when we first started talking about the move was "We should talk to andrewfblack for the new theme". :P	08:19
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andrewfblack	lol Its good to be though of I wish I could do more but for the community but my software programming skills are weak	08:25
GeneralAntilles	Meh, so are mine. :P	08:26
andrewfblack	and see how far you have come	08:26
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andrewfblack	I have been wanting to do a new minimalist theme for awhile just never could get Reggie into it	08:28
AStorm	hehe	08:32
AStorm	in the meantime, I'm still working on handwriting recognition	08:33
acydlord	i forgot my n810 charger at work	08:33
andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles When is new site going to launch	08:33
AStorm	and I'd like to ask if you'd prefer a ui like epitext (the current one) or something with a standard textbox	08:34
AStorm	with live correction too... (mouse-driven textbox :P)	08:34
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, no date, but it'll probably be January or February	08:35
AStorm	I mean separate recognized text and written text, instead of replacing	08:35
GeneralAntilles	Likely to coincide with the new site launch	08:35
andrewfblack	cool	08:35
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, I want Newton-style where I can write anywhere. :P	08:35
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, hmm	08:36
AStorm	possible, if you can hook up "showing" a window and hiding it	08:36
AStorm	I could synthesize X input events	08:36
AStorm	which should work anywhere	08:37
GeneralAntilles	Probably not worth pursing	08:37
AStorm	pity matchbox can't do proper window management	08:37
GeneralAntilles	But replacing works for me	08:37
AStorm	for me, it works so-so	08:37
AStorm	hm	08:37
AStorm	maybe I'll add "tap to pick next possibility"	08:38
AStorm	letter and even maybe word	08:39
AStorm	that would be more t9 or newton style, right?	08:39
AStorm	the most important change is that now you add symbols :>	08:39
AStorm	so, I will finally be able to recognize Polish diacritics	08:40
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zakkm	should hildon-desktop be tak 31mb ram?	08:41
AStorm	that, and a better algorithm (already works better, w/o a dictionary :P)	08:41
AStorm	zakkm, no, here it grabs 11M	08:42
zakkm	for me its taking 31mb	08:42
zakkm	Astorm: newest Diablo?	08:42
AStorm	yes	08:43
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zakkm	uh oh	08:43
zakkm	why is mine taking so much	08:43
AStorm	23-14	08:43
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GeneralAntilles	How many applets? :\	08:43
AStorm	so, 2008.36-5 here	08:44
zakkm	GeneralAntilles	08:44
zakkm	on desktop , only 1	08:44
zakkm	the normal clock	08:44
AStorm	I have omweather, search, clock	08:44
GeneralAntilles	Statusbar, taskbar?	08:45
zakkm	at top thingy, just load-applet and advanced banklight	08:45
AStorm	and in tray, adv backlight and load-applet	08:45
GeneralAntilles	and is that "top"?	08:45
zakkm	no	08:45
zakkm	load-applet	08:45
zakkm	list processes	08:45
AStorm	here too	08:46
AStorm	btw, who has htop for diablo?	08:46
zakkm	probably would be the same as chinook?	08:47
GeneralAntilles	Probably in the Tools repo	08:47
zakkm	htop is very small :P	08:47
zakkm	it doesnt compile i dont think	08:47
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, tools? where is that?	08:47
GeneralAntilles	http://maemo.org/development/tools/	08:47
AStorm	hmm, news	08:48
zakkm	so Astorm: it says 11mb in load-applet for you?	08:48
AStorm	I should subscribe to some feed to keep myself updated	08:48
zakkm	for hildon-desktop?	08:48
AStorm	zakkm, yes	08:48
zakkm	damn	08:48
zakkm	ill try rebooting	08:48
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zakkm	was thinking of reflashing	08:49
zakkm	and just getting the stuff i want this time, rather than trying new stuff	08:49
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AStorm	GeneralAntilles, 0ity there's no gvim in there	08:49
AStorm	*pity	08:49
zakkm	GeneralAntilles: you think LCARS could of caused the huge "memory leak"	08:49
GeneralAntilles	Doubtful	08:49
zakkm	hildon desktop is now 16mb	08:49
zakkm	somethings leaking ;p	08:50
AStorm	weird, here nothing is apparently	08:50
AStorm	except microb	08:50
AStorm	:P	08:50
zakkm	its a browser though	08:50
zakkm	i dont mind that	08:50
AStorm	but that is fixed with restarting it	08:50
zakkm	but hildon-desktop cant be restarted :P	08:50
AStorm	pity it doesn't support sessions	08:50
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* zakkm adds to wishlist for mer :)		08:51
GeneralAntilles	Sure it can	08:51
GeneralAntilles	killall hildon-desktop	08:51
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, haha	08:51
AStorm	almost a reboot	08:51
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AStorm	and won't it enter "safe-mode" and disable all the applets?	08:52
zakkm	killall -9 more like it ;p	08:52
AStorm	zakkm, wrong	08:52
zakkm	hell, why not just STOP it. ;p	08:52
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, there's a file that it deletes when it closes cleanly	08:52
AStorm	mhm	08:52
GeneralAntilles	if that file's there it start, it starts up with default applets	08:52
AStorm	that I know	08:52
AStorm	but will sigterm make it remove the file?	08:53
zakkm	yeah	08:53
zakkm	it says 17mb now	08:53
GeneralAntilles	Dunno	08:53
zakkm	theres a leak :P	08:53
GeneralAntilles	They're easy enough to re-enable anyway	08:53
zakkm	not if you killall -9 :D	08:53
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, not if you're running 10 or more:>	08:53
zakkm	oh wow	08:54
zakkm	you can kill hildon-desktop :D	08:54
AStorm	:P	08:54
GeneralAntilles	I wish it weren't so nastily put together	08:54
zakkm	oh yeah its so memory-leaked	08:54
AStorm	anyway, we need something less broken than matchbox too	08:54
GeneralAntilles	hopefully the applets will move to their own processes soon.	08:54
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, oh, indeed	08:54
AStorm	I can't figure out the init system	08:54
GeneralAntilles	Which, I think they're planning on fixing at some point.	08:54
AStorm	want to add a script	08:54
AStorm	yet it doesn't work	08:55
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GeneralAntilles	upstart in Fremantle	08:55
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, wouldn't it be as easy as a system("some-applet")?	08:55
AStorm	or are they done in a hacky plugin way?	08:56
AStorm	(then it would be threading to fix it, or clone syscall)	08:56
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AStorm	(plus some signal watchdog)	08:58
zakkm	how did you get yours to take 11mb	08:58
zakkm	i think thats why my nokia is slow, goes into swap so fast	08:58
AStorm	eh, why oh why can't I have unlimited time...	08:58
AStorm	zakkm, nothing at all	08:58
AStorm	exactly, I'm running xchat here, browser, terminal etc.	08:58
zakkm	did you clone from sd ?	08:59
AStorm	pidgin	08:59
AStorm	no	08:59
AStorm	it's jffs2	08:59
AStorm	personally, I'd use device-manager instead if going to such a low level	08:59
zakkm	?	09:00
zakkm	device-manager?	09:00
AStorm	and raid0 the partitions	09:00
AStorm	yup	09:00
zakkm	i dont get it :(	09:00
AStorm	get 512M of space (about) for system	09:00
AStorm	and rest unraided for stuff	09:00
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, did you see: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/ke-recv/src/fremantle-format-internal-memory-card.sh ?	09:01
AStorm	I did reformat my card manually	09:01
AStorm	as per ITT	09:02
zakkm	where is {1} < -- defined?	09:02
AStorm	commandline	09:02
AStorm	first arg	09:02
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, "o, they're now making partitions?	09:03
AStorm	what for?	09:03
AStorm	swap partitions are overrated and pointless	09:03
GeneralAntilles	Well, more interesting is the size	09:03
zakkm	ohh	09:03
acydlord	swap partitions are so 1996	09:03
zakkm	wanted to ask if you dont mind	09:03
AStorm	swapfiles are just as fast... unless there is hibernation...	09:03
zakkm	if i leave my nokia idle, does it matter that i leave stuff open much	09:04
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, hmm, indeed	09:04
AStorm	a bit too large	09:04
zakkm	or should i close everything, if leaving it for more than like 20min	09:04
AStorm	zakkm, shouldn't	09:04
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, too large for what, though? 512MB of RAM? :P	09:04
acydlord	i've left it idle with crap running for days	09:04
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, no, for the mmc chip	09:04
AStorm	they must've added a new one...	09:05
AStorm	so, the next device will have 3G internal mem and 512 MB ram	09:05
acydlord	i'm sad my n810 doesnt have the epicly huge operating time on battery it had for the firt week after i got it back from repairs	09:05
zakkm	cause im thinking its better to get things from systray	09:05
zakkm	than to open them	09:05
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, well, that all adds up to 2.75GB, so it's certainly bigger than the N810's. :P	09:05
zakkm	512mb ram	09:05
zakkm	wtf	09:05
AStorm	n900? Ä:P	09:05
zakkm	that would run maemo so well :P	09:05
zakkm	3420 and 512mb ram ;p	09:06
AStorm	that would run full Xfce well	09:06
zakkm	forget optimizations :)	09:06
zakkm	screw xfce ;p	09:06
AStorm	xfce is nicer for small screen	09:06
GeneralAntilles	There's a variety of other plausible explanations, of course, but it does suggest more than 256MB	09:06
AStorm	tested myself	09:06
zakkm	hello ipod touch like interface :P lol	09:06
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, yup, like, hibernation	09:06
AStorm	zakkm, nah, better	09:06
acydlord	if i wanted an ipod touch like interface i'd buy an ipod touch :p	09:07
zakkm	lol	09:07
AStorm	ipod touch has a mediocre interface	09:07
acydlord	i just need to afford the n97 to stuck in my pocket with my n810	09:07
AStorm	n900 with gprs quad modem?	09:07
AStorm	gimme!	09:07
AStorm	(and don't lose wifi)	09:07
AStorm	(or bluetooth)	09:07
GeneralAntilles	N97 fails to excite	09:08
GeneralAntilles	Symbian just plain sucks	09:08
AStorm	welll... yes	09:08
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, a Nokia exec mentioned Linux as a possible alternative to Symbian for Nokia's high-end phones in the future	09:08
acydlord	well it would be nicer with maemo	09:08
GeneralAntilles	http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE4B16IO20081202	09:08
acydlord	but i still like the n97	09:08
GeneralAntilles	Maemo as it stands right now will suck for phones	09:09
AStorm	not suck enough	09:09
acydlord	so does android, but that doesnt stop anyone	09:09
AStorm	just need a good phone app	09:09
RST38h	Why would it suck?	09:09
AStorm	something for sms/mms	09:09
RST38h	AStorm <-- correct	09:09
AStorm	and calls	09:09
AStorm	decent contacts app too	09:10
AStorm	rest is already there	09:10
acydlord	lol, even if it did sms and no calls i'ditch my phone	09:10
RST38h	You can't suck harder as a phone than WinMobile. Yet, it is everywhere.	09:10
AStorm	:>	09:10
zakkm	microb javascript needs to be faster ;p	09:10
AStorm	zakkm, next device will have OMAP 3	09:10
AStorm	so, the point is moot :P	09:10
zakkm	i cant afford it	09:10
acydlord	RST38h, apple sure is trying hard	09:10
zakkm	only got n800 cause i found it for $145	09:11
AStorm	heh	09:11
AStorm	then port a webkit broser	09:11
AStorm	*browser	09:11
RST38h	Webkit has been ported to Maemo already	09:11
zakkm	theres tear or something	09:11
RST38h	yep	09:11
AStorm	hmm? oh... link?	09:11
RST38h	google? =)	09:11
GeneralAntilles	Or wait for MicroB to be upgraded to a recent Firefox release	09:12
RST38h	General: People who tried the beta say it is not significantly better	09:12
zakkm	should i wait for fennec/microb update?	09:12
AStorm	and flash too?	09:12
RST38h	Crashier - yes	09:12
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, er, which beta? :\	09:12
RST38h	Fennec	09:12
zakkm	i want to be able to use google docs, and it doesnt quite seem worth it the speed its at now	09:12
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, Fennec != MicroB	09:12
AStorm	I haven't noticed Fennec crashing	09:13
GeneralAntilles	and it's not beta yet	09:13
GeneralAntilles	Fennec is just about to hit alpha 2	09:13
GeneralAntilles	which should have a lot of performance improvements.	09:13
AStorm	although its "springy" ui is annoying	09:13
RST38h	General: Well, you asked about the most recent FF release and it does not get recentlier than fennec =)	09:13
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I didn't "ask" anything	09:13
AStorm	I enable the bars instead of scrolling often	09:13
zakkm	i like microb :(	09:13
RST38h	ok ok	09:13
zakkm	except speed of course	09:13
zakkm	but the buttons and all	09:13
AStorm	microb could use autozoom	09:13
* RST38h won't argue semantic details with a wikipedian :()		09:13
AStorm	other than that, it's fine	09:14
RST38h	MicroB flash plugin times itself by busy-looping on gettimeofday()	09:14
AStorm	yup	09:14
zakkm	feature and ui, microb is fine :)	09:15
* zakkm hates speed of microb ;p		09:15
AStorm	speed is ok	09:15
RST38h	And, also, "fit to width" feature has to be fixed (but not removed, hopefully)	09:15
GeneralAntilles	It's gone in Fremantle	09:15
AStorm	your webpages just suck :>	09:15
RST38h	Speed is fine withme	09:15
RST38h	General: that will suck.	09:15
zakkm	lol	09:15
RST38h	Not generally, but for a few pages =(	09:15
zakkm	would like to goto google docs on it, and engadget	09:15
zakkm	and no im not rss reading	09:15
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, did they at least add fenneclike zoom?	09:15
zakkm	whats with the android 1.0 on n800 ?	09:16
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, we don't have any UI details yet.	09:16
AStorm	zakkm, engadget is ok	09:16
GeneralAntilles	But, presumably, they're not stupid. :P	09:16
RST38h	General: The main usage case for the fit-to-width is really zooming (for better readability) and still having the whole page	09:16
RST38h	So, that one will be gone in Fremantle	09:16
* RST38h has some doubts about the "not stupid" part but will not elaborate.		09:17
AStorm	hm	09:17
AStorm	it was a nice, although slow, feature	09:18
* zakkm thinks there is too much hype about fremantle,		09:18
RST38h	what hype?	09:18
zakkm	i saw on itt forum how like how bugs supposely say like "fixed in fremantle"	09:18
RST38h	if you mean "will be all fixed in fremantle" claims, they are neither hype nor right	09:19
AStorm	it probably will be as nice as expected	09:19
zakkm	and then like new browser for fremantle.. right now	09:19
GeneralAntilles	Oh, right, that idiotic thread.	09:19
* RST38h is pretty sure a lot of things will actually get broken in fremantle with no recourse		09:19
AStorm	yup	09:19
zakkm	bugs have to happen with so many packages and even in one package	09:19
AStorm	so, there will be a few bugfix releases	09:19
RST38h	like...2? or 3? :)	09:20
zakkm	i want performance improvements :)	09:20
AStorm	releases, yes	09:20
AStorm	upgrades, more	09:20
zakkm	though i think mer will beat fremantle release	09:20
zakkm	making fremantle release quite worthless lol	09:20
AStorm	nah	09:20
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, Mer wont have Fremantle's UI.	09:20
RST38h	zakkm: and you call fremantle "hype"?	09:20
zakkm	they changing the ui?	09:20
AStorm	I just hope they'll bash skype to make 2.x build for armel	09:20
AStorm	some	09:21
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, quite radically	09:21
zakkm	any screenshots	09:21
zakkm	or mockups?	09:21
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, no.	09:21
zakkm	so hype? :P	09:21
RST38h	zakkm: the best approximation is probably Moblin	09:21
GeneralAntilles	:roll:	09:21
AStorm	hm, so, stupid left bar going away finally?	09:21
RST38h	How close approximation we do not know	09:21
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, likely.	09:22
RST38h	Hey, leave that left bar alone!	09:22
AStorm	it's pointless	09:22
AStorm	app list is on button	09:22
AStorm	only menus have to be moved	09:22
zakkm	wow	09:22
zakkm	moblin looks pretty cool	09:22
zakkm	oh wow its so late	09:23
zakkm	going to bed, night guys! :P	09:23
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RST38h	Oil <$40/barrel hehehehe	09:24
AStorm	oh wow, it's so early here ;)	09:24
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AStorm	personally, I'd have the menus on some button	09:26
AStorm	and hopefully n9xx will have the dpad in a more accessible place... or better kinetic scrolling	09:27
Proteous	you and your button fetish	09:27
Proteous	no buttons FTW	09:27
Proteous	just put a button behind the screen...	09:27
AStorm	hm? :P	09:27
Proteous	mind controlled n9xx!!	09:28
AStorm	heh, I at least tried to be serious	09:28
Proteous	interupting serious talk since 1995	09:29
AStorm	oh, and a hardware reset	09:29
AStorm	it is unfortunately sometimes required	09:29
Proteous	not as required as my need for doorstops	09:29
Proteous	so many doors so little expensive electronic devices to hold them open	09:30
AStorm	use books, they're cheaper	09:31
Proteous	no no, I only use dead exspensive electronic devices	09:31
AStorm	btw, are there some fennec nightly builds around?	09:35
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AStorm	in a nice .deb form	09:35
Proteous	and a side of milk and cookies	09:36
Proteous	oatmeal cookies would be a plus	09:36
AStorm	are you off your meds or something? :p	09:37
Proteous	heh, sorry	09:38
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Proteous	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=430200	09:41
Proteous	happy?	09:41
AStorm	I noticed a google group thread too :>	09:42
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gnuton	'morning	09:46
Proteous	mornin	09:46
jrayhawk	Once Linux acquires USB support for it, the Emotiv EPOC would enable mind control of your Nokia.	09:50
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AStorm	hmmhmm	10:03
AStorm	fennec works better than I thought after ondemand fixes	10:03
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AStorm	and it crashed... oh well	10:09
AStorm	:P	10:09
qwerty12	as you say that, nautilus crashes...	10:10
RST38h	Hildonized Nautilus?	10:12
qwerty12	hehe, nautilus on my desktop	10:13
AStorm	and another crash... drat	10:13
AStorm	I really need a newer nightly	10:13
AStorm	probably crashes due to malloc failure :P	10:14
AStorm	it takes 31 MB and also enlarges Xomap	10:16
RST38h	Subject: EnLaRGE YouR XoMAP!	10:19
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liri	heya	10:30
AStorm	btw, where are fennec tinderbox builds stored?	10:34
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* Stskeeps yawns		10:45
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Stskeeps	you know it's saturday morning when you start typing in your irc nickname as login for mail services instead	10:48
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* qwerty12 jumps for joy as he fixes the stand on his n800		10:49
Stskeeps	woo	10:49
Stskeeps	glue and ducttape? :P	10:49
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liri	does kdepimpi supports sync'ing with google for calendar/contacts?	10:49
FreeSoul	hi guys :) can anybody tell me the bogomips that Nokia N810 cpu has?	10:49
qwerty12	Stskeeps, no, just forcing the screw down and turning the screw with my finger :D	10:49
Stskeeps	FreeSoul: mine says 397.46 atm	10:50
qwerty12	FreeSoul, 397.46 when it's running at its highest speed	10:50
FreeSoul	qwerty12: perfect!!!!	10:50
FreeSoul	and other question: does anybody of you knows who ported android to the N810?	10:51
* Stskeeps points to qwerty12, solca, .. other insane people		10:51
qwerty12	Stskeeps, I did the old port (with code that wasn't mine) :). I think freesoul is talking about the NthCode as that is the one that is talked about as I don't solca talked about his one much :/	10:52
qwerty12	FreeSoul, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=247259	10:52
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FreeSoul	guys I can explain my problem... maybe you can address me. I've a Benq MID S6 that runs on an Intel Atom (x86) cpu and it comes with Midinux. It's linux but as linux user I can't sopport to use such a bad designed software. It comes with kernel 2.6.18-22 and all drivers, kernel, and all software is opensource. I need someone to port drivers to a more recent kernel like 2.6.25 to run android or an decent linux distribution. Can anybod	10:55
Stskeeps	please split up your sentences..	10:55
FreeSoul	Stskeeps: ok sorry	10:55
FreeSoul	the idea is this: i've kernel 2.6.18-22 and full drivers opensource. I need to port the drivers to a recent kernel like the 2.6.25	10:56
AStorm	FreeSoul, android is for arm afaicr	10:56
AStorm	which drivers?	10:56
FreeSoul	AStorm: touchscreen, poulsbo, wifi, gsensor, and so on... some are allready supported... but wifi for example is not, neither the hsdpa module	10:58
RST38h	FreeSoul: What is the problem then? Port the drivers and be happy	10:58
AStorm	are these binary drivers?	10:58
AStorm	RST38h, easier to say than do	10:58
FreeSoul	AStorm: yes but I've also the source code	10:58
AStorm	I could help you if I had time to spare :/	10:59
AStorm	but, now, not	10:59
RST38h	AStorm: well, that it a beauty of open source - he has all the source code so he can easily port it	10:59
RST38h	;)	10:59
AStorm	s/easily//	10:59
AStorm	:P	10:59
AStorm	it's code for kernel 6 versions old	10:59
Stskeeps	FreeSoul: did you check if someone else ported it? wouldn't surprise me	11:00
FreeSoul	RST38h: i've never developed anything for the kernel... it's not all tat easy	11:00
AStorm	sorry, 8 versions now	11:00
FreeSoul	Stskeeps: yeah, nobody :(	11:00
RST38h	AStorm: Whether he his professionally capable is a different thing	11:00
RST38h	;)	11:00
RST38h	FreeSoul: Oh well, then use XP	11:00
AStorm	on atom? mwhahaha...hahah	11:01
FreeSoul	RST38h: i prefer to commit suicide instead of use xp	11:01
AStorm	on a mid	11:01
RST38h	The way I see it you have three options:	11:01
AStorm	even xp mobile would be hard	11:01
FreeSoul	RST38h: and I dunno what to do with a windows pc....	11:01
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Stskeeps	FreeSoul: how is your battery time on midlinux?	11:01
Stskeeps	.. just curious	11:01
RST38h	1) port drivers to the newer kernel 2) use XP 3) commit suicide	11:01
RST38h	Choose one	11:01
AStorm	r) pay someone to port the drivers	11:01
AStorm	4)	11:01
RST38h	Yea, correct	11:01
Stskeeps	m) be test puppy for Mer on i386	11:02
Stskeeps	:P	11:02
* Stskeeps ponders why X doesn't start		11:02
AStorm	nah, kernel doesn't have drivers	11:02
AStorm	Stskeeps, did you change the kernel?	11:02
FreeSoul	Stskeeps: if you keep touchscreen light down (low, i don't mean switched off) it can last for 5 hours i think... of course it depends on the usage of networking you do... it's not a really long charge... but it's acceptable	11:02
Stskeeps	AStorm: not yet	11:02
AStorm	if so, you have to rebuild Xomap vs its headers...	11:02
AStorm	or at least video driver	11:03
Stskeeps	AStorm: -omapfb driver	11:04
Stskeeps	but i suspect i might know why now	11:04
FreeSoul	brb sorry	11:04
AStorm	Stskeeps, do you have a mer build env done in a nice download form?	11:05
AStorm	like, click and build? :P	11:05
Stskeeps	AStorm: sdk or image builder? :P right now it's a strange system of shell scripts, on bzr lp:~mer-committers/m-r/imager :P	11:06
AStorm	guess I'd have to revisit debian packaging	11:06
AStorm	sdk	11:06
Stskeeps	ah, then no - we need someone to tinker with sb2 properly	11:07
Stskeeps	or sb1 for that sake	11:07
AStorm	need to build a bunch of debs and sbox is horrible	11:07
AStorm	hmm	11:07
Stskeeps	we primarily native-build atm, but wouldn't mind sb2 going as well :P	11:08
AStorm	native-build is ok	11:08
Stskeeps	as armel builds are deadly slow	11:09
AStorm	as long as the app is small enough... :/	11:09
FreeSoul	AStorm: can i write you privately?	11:09
AStorm	sure, /msg away	11:10
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Stskeeps	morning, lcuk	11:18
lcuk	urgleburgle	11:18
lcuk	hiya sts	11:19
* qwerty12 <3's his dirty hack to maemo-gtk for permanent wrap around menus		11:19
qwerty12	hi lcuk	11:19
lcuk	nice qwerty	11:20
Stskeeps	what do you mean by wrap around menus, btw?	11:20
qwerty12	by pressing up when at the top of a menu, it goes to the bottom and vice versa	11:21
qwerty12	instead of staying stuck at the top when pressing up	11:21
qwerty12	compare pressing up in a menu on the tablet and pressing up in a menu on a gtk program on the computer	11:21
Stskeeps	ah	11:21
Stskeeps	yeah	11:21
lcuk	willy wonka menus. theres more stuff past the top floor	11:22
qwerty12	Stskeeps, seems nokia or gtk people have a thing against libtool too: " -e 's/^hardcode_libdir_flag_spec.*$$/hardcode_libdir_flag_spec=" -D__LIBTOOL_IS_A_FOOL__ "/' \" :P	11:22
Stskeeps	mm, sortof	11:23
Stskeeps	i have a weird screenshot on my hildon and i'm not 100% sure it's because of an error	11:25
Stskeeps	cos it vaguely makes sense	11:26
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Stskeeps	sec, taking a scrshot :P	11:27
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lcuk	Stskeeps, ive been having that sort of feeling for months	11:27
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lcuk	widget number 1 is taking shape nicely	11:27
Stskeeps	lo meiz	11:28
lcuk	mmmm topless skydivers	11:29
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Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/weirdhildon.png	11:34
lcuk	heh Stskeeps thats b0rkened	11:35
lcuk	is part of it the default x11 core background	11:36
Stskeeps	lcuk: it's broken yes, but it's funny how hildon puts the widgets	11:36
Stskeeps	especially because the version we're basing on is for fremantle..	11:36
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lcuk	o.O	11:37
Stskeeps	how does N97 interface look like again when on the side?	11:38
aquatix	http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/02/nokia-unveils-flagship-n97-phone/	11:39
lcuk	i dunno, but i have started keeping my nokia in portrait and all my tests are going for automatic rotations	11:39
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aquatix	Stskeeps: http://www.engadget.com/tag/N97/ has some more	11:40
lcuk	http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-unveils-flagship-n97-phone/1196504/	11:40
Stskeeps	AStorm: if i didn't know better these two screenshots are similar..	11:40
Stskeeps	er	11:40
Stskeeps	aquatix:	11:40
* Stskeeps tries to see where the difference is		11:41
aquatix	Stskeeps: which two exactly?	11:42
Stskeeps	aquatix: well i just ran a hildon-desktop which is tagged for fremantle	11:42
Stskeeps	and the layout is different than usua	11:42
Stskeeps	l	11:42
Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/weirdhildon.png	11:42
aquatix	yeah, saw it	11:42
Stskeeps	k	11:43
Stskeeps	with two desktop bars and an area below	11:43
aquatix	and you mean that it looks like n97?	11:43
Stskeeps	yeah, well, structure wise	11:43
Stskeeps	obviously not as pretty right now :P	11:43
aquatix	:)	11:43
aquatix	indeed	11:43
aquatix	interesting	11:43
* aquatix checks the videos from the 2nd of december		11:44
lcuk	the ui looks bad - she keeps doing that horrid unintuitive side swipe http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/02/nokia-n97-video-hands-on/	11:44
aquatix	looking at that now	11:45
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aquatix	that side swipe doesn't have an animation	11:45
aquatix	which makes it weird	11:45
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aquatix	in the demo video there was an animation	11:45
aquatix	then it suddenly makes sense	11:45
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RST38h	lcuk: this is not the final UI	11:45
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aquatix	i think they are still working on the transitions and such	11:46
lcuk	mine isnt either, but its sensible	11:46
RST38h	yours does not qualify for UI yet =)	11:46
RST38h	unless I have missed some update =)	11:47
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lcuk	why? because i chose to build apps in it which interested me and decided not to do a media player?	11:47
RST38h	you decided to skip the ui	11:48
RST38h	implemented features but no ui	11:48
lcuk	yes, and got on with using it	11:48
aquatix	well, it doesn't have a UI environment, like for example a fixed menu or status bar or a small navigation bar	11:48
aquatix	lcuk: if i want to do something else in liqbase, i have to go back to the main menu first	11:49
aquatix	and there's no good way to see immediately in what app i'm in	11:49
aquatix	just saying :)	11:49
RST38h	a strip of icons (like in a digital camera) is all I have been asking for :)	11:49
* aquatix likes liqbase a lot		11:49
* lcuk would take notes, but liqbase is in pieces		11:50
RST38h	context dependent and overlayed onto the screen	11:50
aquatix	lcuk: :)	11:50
* aquatix gives lcuk some paper and a pencil		11:51
lcuk	cant we just extend the screen so its not overlayed	11:51
* aquatix runs, hard		11:51
aquatix	s/hard/fast	11:51
lcuk	aquatix, no need, i have pad infront of me	11:51
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* lcuk wants to replace that with a tablet		11:52
* lcuk also wants to replace his pinboard		11:52
* aquatix doesn't have a pinboard, and only now and then uses paper		11:53
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aquatix	maybe i should use my n810 more for drawing	11:53
lcuk	i only use paper when i cant fit my ideas onto nokia	11:53
lcuk	and even then when ive finished i copy whats on paper onto nokia - i wish it was automatic digital transfer tho	11:54
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aquatix	it'd need a semi-highres camera and some ocr	11:54
lcuk	no, it just needs me havign a slate :)	11:55
lcuk	and an asus top as my desktop monitor	11:55
lcuk	and something else on the wall	11:55
* lcuk spits on bitmaps		11:56
* lcuk strokes ummm strokes		11:56
aquatix	:)	11:56
aquatix	vectors++	11:56
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lcuk	i see in the videos of the 97 its same kind of touchscreen as ours, ie not iphoneesq	11:58
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aquatix	yeah, resistive	11:58
lcuk	the demo vids are done with fingernails - which makes me smile	11:58
lcuk	cos that means stylus will work	11:58
aquatix	:)	11:58
* lcuk ponders liqbase elsewhere		11:59
Stskeeps	qwerty12: can you pastebin your /etc/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf for me?	12:00
FreeSoul	which sw do you use if you need to hand write something? i mean, don't hand writing recognition, just drawing or writing... to use the touchscreen to take notes	12:00
qwerty12	Stskeeps, http://pastebin.com/d617737aa	12:01
lcuk	FreeSoul, liqbase	12:01
Stskeeps	qwerty12: yeah, definately different	12:01
lcuk	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/ or (and) http://liqbase.net/	12:01
Stskeeps	qwerty12: http://rafb.net/p/bfSLCg90.html (mers)	12:02
FreeSoul	thanks lcuk	12:02
aquatix	FreeSoul: liqbase works a lot better than the included Sketch	12:02
qwerty12	Stskeeps, ooh. I guess the Rx-51 is getting a resolution upgrade...	12:02
* lcuk is so pleased he finally sussed out colored font rendering		12:03
Stskeeps	qwerty12: what makes you think that?	12:03
qwerty12	Stskeeps, X-Size-Width=480 from my N800 which has a res of 800x480 and X-Size-Width=800 from your file	12:03
FreeSoul	aquatix: unfortnuately i've no a nokia tablet... i need a sw like this for my mid	12:04
lcuk	orientation	12:04
Stskeeps	yeah, orientation	12:04
qwerty12	skeen	12:04
* qwerty12 hangs head in shame		12:04
Stskeeps	still interesting though	12:04
lcuk	FreeSoul, which OS are you using?	12:04
Stskeeps	this one has been 17 months in making	12:04
FreeSoul	lcuk: midinux (a mid version of red flag linux)	12:05
* lcuk publically flogs qwerty		12:05
FreeSoul	lcuk: it runs on rpm	12:05
lcuk	FreeSoul, i havent done much testing with liqbase on anything other than maemo (its developed entirely on device and VERY specific for it) theres an x86 build mode which removes the maemo specifics but im not sure it will work - are there no other general linux sketching tools arouns?	12:06
* lcuk will also make a note of looking in other communities for software in future ;)		12:07
FreeSoul	lcuk: :)	12:07
Stskeeps	Xournal	12:10
Stskeeps	:P	12:10
lcuk	http://flickr.com/photos/jsmanrique/3086624756/sizes/o/	12:11
Stskeeps	what's more important, horizontal space or vertical space?	12:11
lcuk	mmm that address book looks familiar	12:11
Stskeeps	for browsing, for instance	12:11
lcuk	i cant use vnc or read things in widescreen	12:12
lcuk	much	12:12
lcuk	for some reason portrait is better for experience	12:12
aquatix	Stskeeps: i like widescreen better for browsing	12:12
aquatix	480px is too narrow	12:12
Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/newhildon2.png	12:13
lcuk	ewww letterbox	12:13
Stskeeps	lcuk: in their defense this doesn't have a proper theme on it	12:14
aquatix	Stskeeps: that's a lot of chrome wasting screen real estate imho	12:14
lcuk	but WOW you have a browser in there	12:14
Stskeeps	aquatix: can always go fullscreen	12:14
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aquatix	Stskeeps: of course, but maemo by default already has more space available for it	12:15
Stskeeps	aquatix: i'm on plankton theme though, so it might look ugly :P	12:15
aquatix	i'm ignoring the looks :)	12:15
aquatix	barely ;)	12:15
lcuk	squint a bit and look past them	12:15
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Stskeeps	qwerty12: what version of hildon-desktop?	12:21
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qwerty12	Stskeeps, 1:2.0.18-1fix1	12:22
Stskeeps	ok.. cos that's funny, the source package put out has different desktop.conf	12:23
qwerty12	meh, maybe its been modified when hildon desktop runs in safe mode	12:23
Stskeeps	mm, true	12:24
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Stskeeps	or that it was part of an SSU and hence everyone had proper themes already in .osso	12:25
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qwerty12	Stskeeps, well, here's the one from the latest ssu: http://pastebin.com/d511abe95	12:26
Stskeeps	yeah, i just realized src package doesn't match deb on the repo	12:27
Stskeeps	nm	12:28
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lardman	morning	12:38
qwerty12	hi lardman	12:38
lardman	hi qwerty12, how's things	12:38
qwerty12	all good here, thanks :)	12:38
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: my worry is that it might not work sanely without BME (charging battery)..	12:42
Stskeeps	"my nokia exploded in my pocket because i installed android on it!"	12:42
Stskeeps	:P	12:42
lardman	Stskeeps: it probably just won't charge	12:42
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: My n810 did not blow up, it was charging many hourswith android running	12:43
Stskeeps	k	12:43
lardman	which might make forays into Android reasonably brief	12:43
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: solcas or?	12:43
Meizirkki	Solcas	12:43
Meizirkki	Solcas and roi	12:44
Meizirkki	d	12:44
Meizirkki	is better	12:44
qwerty12	Did solca upload the patch set? The only thing stopping me from trying is that the touchscreen isn't functional unless you patch the ts2301 driver	12:45
qwerty12	*functional for N800	12:45
* Meizirkki will flash back to diablos kernel... (waiting for solca to upload kernel with working wifi		12:45
Meizirkki	Maemo did not boot...	12:47
Meizirkki	?	12:47
Meizirkki	not it boots :)	12:47
Meizirkki	*now	12:47
Stskeeps	with new oro ld kernel?	12:48
Stskeeps	s/o ld/old	12:48
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lardman	hmm, maemo bugs has gone tu	12:51
Stskeeps	yeah, downtime today	12:51
lardman	ah	12:51
* lardman should remember to read the notices from time to time... :)		12:51
lardman	thanks	12:51
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: I flashed back to diablos original kernel	12:52
Meizirkki	it would be cool if solcas kernel would work with maemo	12:53
Meizirkki	:P	12:53
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Stskeeps	with a bit of hacking it possibly could	12:55
Stskeeps	but with the new wifi driver	12:55
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Meiz_n810	Is the new wifi driver better than the old one?	12:55
Stskeeps	depends on definitiion	12:55
Stskeeps	as stable? probably not	12:56
Meiz_n810	k	12:57
Meiz_n810	what does the RD mode do?	12:57
Meiz_n810	power up is "faster"	12:58
Meiz_n810	one short click	12:58
Meiz_n810	sun works	12:59
Meiz_n810	su*	12:59
Stskeeps	mm	12:59
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* Stskeeps seperates hildon desktop layout from hildon desktop program.		13:06
Stskeeps	should make it easier to make custom desktop layouts	13:06
Stskeeps	(want widescreen maemo? make a layout!)	13:08
lardman	Meiz_n810: R&D mode also gives the blurb at boot and allows you to use gainroot to gain root	13:09
lcuk	morning lardman	13:11
lardman	hi lcuk	13:12
lcuk	damn my phone being out of credit, the one time i actually really want a blt and have a chance of getting one and i cant txt and SOS to tracy	13:13
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lardman	lol	13:14
lardman	sms from office to kitchen?	13:14
lardman	couldn't you shout?	13:14
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lcuk	no, shes just finishing work at the shop now - if i wanted a blt i need supplies	13:14
lardman	ah	13:15
lcuk	:D do you wanna send a random text to her askin her to get me bacon? :D	13:15
lardman	lol	13:15
lardman	yeah, if you want	13:15
lardman	why not just phone?	13:16
lcuk	"bring home the bacon"	13:16
lardman	yeah, to Bath!	13:16
lcuk	cos thats miles away	13:16
lardman	mmm, bacon!	13:16
lcuk	and im lazy this mornin	13:16
lardman	http://www.freebiesms.co.uk/ or similar ;)	13:16
lcuk	oooh but wont i get spammed	13:17
lcuk	umm she	13:17
qwerty12	~lart scratchbox for still requiring patching of check-lxdialog.sh even in linux omap tree to use make menuconfig	13:17
* infobot plops scratchbox into a giant vat of herring for still requiring patching of check-lxdialog.sh even in linux omap tree to use make menuconfig		13:17
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lcuk	lardman, :O " For Messages sent to O2,Orange,3, Vodafone, Virgin Mobile, Guernsey, Jersey, Manx and T-Mobile networks, the recipient will have the option to pay £5 to read the message. "	13:19
lcuk	thats not free	13:19
suihkulokki	qwerty12: you could just make HOSTCC=host-gcc HOSTCXX=host-g++ make menuconfig	13:19
qwerty12	lcuk, what network is she on?	13:19
Stskeeps	5 pound to read a message? neat	13:19
lcuk	errrrrr o2	13:20
lcuk	i think	13:20
qwerty12	suihkulokki, ah, nice, but my dirty hack seems to be working :D	13:20
lcuk	yeah she is infact	13:20
glass_	£5?? lol	13:20
qwerty12	lcuk, damn, you can do it to t-mobile for free :/	13:20
lcuk	damn	13:20
glass_	lcuk: start hunting for some free sms site, they go down pretty quickly but new sites spring up	13:20
lcuk	oh gawd	13:20
lcuk	"dad i done a poo" :\| brb	13:21
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lcuk	glass_, ive had exactly one use for them in recent years and that was 5 minutes ago	13:24
lardman	oh sorry, there used to be some completely free ones in the old days	13:25
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glass_	lardman: there are sometimes now too, but they go down pretty quickly..	13:26
glass_	lardman: theres idiots who don't read theis sms gw contracts well enough, or people who abuse some system for a while to pipe them	13:26
lardman	glass_: ok, I just read you comment	13:26
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qwerty12	lcuk, you may be able to find an email to sms gateway. 44<number>@mobile.celloneusa.com supposedly sends texts to O2-Uk networks but i'd try it with your own number 1st to see if it works	13:30
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RST38h	http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/008/12/next_nokia_full_touchscreen_device_leaked.htm	13:33
RST38h	Enjoy	13:33
Stskeeps	N900?	13:34
Stskeeps	or not	13:35
lcuk	is a bit late now since im home ( is mrs lcuk)	13:35
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mavhc	weird url, suffers from the year 3000 problem	13:35
lardman	lcuk: (Mrs) did you bring bacon?	13:36
t_s_o	heh, looks like someone took the samsung ui and slapped it onto a N810 in vertical...	13:36
lardman	lcuk: Gary will be most disappointed if not ;)	13:36
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lcuk	no i didnt had no cash on me for once but anyway he wants a blt which isnt a proper bacon butty	13:37
Stskeeps	RST38h: looks interesting but im not sure if it's a tablet or not :P	13:37
qwerty12	hehe	13:37
lardman	hmm, /me needs a built-in keyboard!	13:37
lardman	looks like a phone though, on the rh image you can see it says "calls" and "message"	13:38
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Stskeeps	lcuk: hah @ qole picture :P	13:39
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Stskeeps	so, people with n810s.. what would you prefer your internal MMC to be like?	13:53
liri	did anyone try that pigdin facebook chat plugin for maemo?	13:53
Stskeeps	would you like it to be a ext2 partition, have a swap partition, be the usual place the OS saves your documents, or?	13:54
lcuk	i just want it to be for static pre-installed data - i prefer not to write to it often	13:54
lcuk	ill use the external one for that	13:55
Stskeeps	internal mmc, not flash :P	13:55
lcuk	yes	13:55
lcuk	my 2gb - im happy its for maps mainly	13:55
t_s_o	liri: iirc, it works	13:55
lardman	Stskeeps: not swap!	13:55
lardman	Stskeeps: it can't be replaced	13:55
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* Stskeeps is still wondering about nokia's 768mb swap partition on internal MMC		13:56
Meiz_n810	2gb internal: 8mb fat, 1gb ext2/3 maemo, 756mb android, 256 swap	13:56
Stskeeps	so you would prefer the OS to be in internal flash, and /home on internal MMC?	13:57
lardman	Stskeeps: really, I've never even tried to enable swap	13:57
liri	t_s_o: good to know, I'll try it	13:57
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: i want to have OS in internal MMC, because flash is so small	13:57
lardman	Stskeeps: that would be a reasonable solution	13:58
lardman	Meiz_n810: normally the os stuff is small compared to the stuff in home	13:58
liri	whats up with that global communication device	13:59
liri	I always forget the name. the one that replaces the current communication suite with sip and other protocols	13:59
Meiz_n810	lardman: 256 jffs2 is too small even if /home is in internal MMC	13:59
lardman	ymmv ;)	13:59
lardman	works for me anyway	14:00
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: so far we're stuffing 300m in 130mb flash :P	14:00
Meiz_n810	yep	14:00
Stskeeps	i would really love something like unionfs.. except that it would fill up internal jffs first, and then flowover to external	14:00
Stskeeps	er, internal mmc partition	14:00
lardman	Stskeeps: is that a problem?	14:04
Stskeeps	hm?	14:05
lardman	and also, I presume it could be told which is the primary partition	14:05
Stskeeps	yeah	14:05
qwerty12	liri, rtcomm	14:05
Stskeeps	i guess something like raid striping, but for fs's :P	14:06
Stskeeps	so you have flash which ideally shouldn't be touched much (taken care of OS to not wear it -too- much), and MMC external	14:06
Stskeeps	or something	14:06
lardman	Stskeeps: I really wouldn'ty worry about the wear thing	14:06
* Stskeeps glances at aufs		14:07
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* qwerty12 will always prefer aufs over unionfs on the tablets as you don't need to reflash the kernel		14:08
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lardman	what sort of size jpeg image do you want to be able to decode?	14:09
* lardman must set a limit		14:09
Stskeeps	doesn't people usually make quite big jpgs initially?	14:10
lardman	probably	14:11
lardman	10Mb?	14:11
* lardman wonders how much memory is actually left		14:11
Stskeeps	mm	14:11
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* lardman looks for a calc that does hex		14:20
* Stskeeps ponders stumbling to the shop and get some lunc		14:23
Stskeeps	h	14:23
lcuk	lardman ./calc 0x20*3	14:24
lcuk	i was after something similar so me n kot made one with perl ;)	14:25
lcuk	echo $*	14:25
lcuk	pcom="print $*;"	14:25
lcuk	echo `perl -e "$pcom"`	14:25
lardman	lcuk: turns out the standard ubuntu one works nicely	14:25
lcuk	not on device	14:25
lardman	no, but dsp programming is hard on device ;)	14:26
lcuk	agreed	14:26
lcuk	it shouldnt be though	14:26
lardman	no toolchain	14:26
lcuk	:'(	14:27
lardman	I'd prefer to code on a PC tbh	14:27
lcuk	so do i	14:27
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lcuk	and i do	14:27
lcuk	its just i build on device	14:27
lardman	each to his own :)	14:28
lcuk	yeah, but thats the good thing about linux	14:28
lardman	hmm, I wonder how many free tlbs I have....	14:29
* lardman searches the list for an old post		14:29
lcuk	tlb? aint that an activex type library	14:30
lardman	translation look-aside buffer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Translation_lookaside_buffer	14:30
lcuk	ahhh	14:31
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps what is the nit-bootmenu-compat?	14:33
lardman	~6 it seems	14:34
lcuk	that doesnt sound like a lot, but considering you are already in the most constrained place on the device it doesnt surprise me	14:35
lardman	well that could map 6MB of shared memory	14:35
lardman	though from my previous emails it looks like I had problems mapping more than 1MB at a time	14:36
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: former deblet-boot-basics	14:39
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lardman	to the shops! bbl	15:00
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AStorm	back from the shops ;)	15:01
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Stskeeps	shops: so geeks don't have to hunt for food	15:07
Stskeeps	;)	15:07
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`Mace_	wow	15:38
`Mace_	boswars is very interesting	15:38
`Mace_	it actually runs haha	15:38
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`Mace	wtf	15:39
`Mace	someone registered `mace? :)	15:39
lopz	hola	15:41
lcuk	`Mace, you perhaps?	15:42
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trenka	ssvb: alive? :)	16:09
ssvb	trenka: yes :)	16:13
`Mace	boswars is friggin awesome for being something you can play on the n800	16:14
`Mace	i'm sure it will be a lot better onc ei figure out what all the units do :)	16:14
`Mace	makes one wonder if starcraft 1 could be put on an n800	16:14
`Mace	looks about the same	16:14
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* pupnik apt-gets boswars		16:24
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Stskeeps	`Mace: that looks like a neat timewaster..	16:30
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andre__	maemo.org Bugzilla Reorganization progress update for those that are interested: Need two hours longer than announced (due to myself, due to Bugzilla code, and due to some Nokians this morning)	16:54
AStorm	Nokians? sounds like aliens	16:55
AStorm	:P	16:55
qwerty12_N800	I can't live without my bugzilla fix, and you're telling me I have to wait two more hours?!?	16:55
andre__	qwerty12_N800, basically: yes. relax, get a coffee, realize there's a world out there too. ;-)	16:56
ShadowJK	qwerty12_N800, you should've known there was something fishy when the first hits were free	16:56
solca	hi!	16:56
qwerty12_N800	andre__, I don't drink tea (or coffee) and bugzilla is my world!!!!	16:56
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solca	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=247312	16:57
qwerty12_N800	ShadowJK, lol	16:57
andre__	qwerty12_N800, same here. But right now only I have access and you not :-P	16:57
solca	Meiz_n810: ?	16:57
qwerty12_N800	andre__, hater :P	16:57
andre__	:-D	16:57
ShadowJK	andre__, you could tease him by posting summaries	16:57
qwerty12_N800	:D	16:58
Meiz_n810	solca: hi, is wifi working on android?	16:58
qwerty12_N800	solca, great work! thanks!	16:58
andre__	gosh, summaries? no, i just want to get this done :)	16:58
solca	Meiz_n810: for me yes but I notice some problems	16:58
Meiz_n810	k	16:58
Meiz_n810	can i try?	16:58
solca	Meiz_n810: maybe you can check and report	16:58
solca	qwerty12_N800: thx :)	16:58
Meiz_n810	sure	16:58
qwerty12_N800	solca, arrgh, the stupid c****. any ideas why they are doing that for?	16:59
Stskeeps	andre__: vodka? :P	16:59
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solca	qwerty12_N800: no idea but thats is sad for us	16:59
andre__	Stskeeps, later, honey, later. :-P	16:59
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qwerty12_N800	solca, yeah :(	16:59
solca	qwerty12_N800: but if those drivers were working in not a problem for now	17:00
solca	s/in/is/g	17:00
infobot	solca meant: qwerty12_N800: but if those drivers were workisg is not a problem for now	17:00
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qwerty12_N800	solca, i'm not entirely sure those touchscreen drivers being removed affects us	17:01
solca	qwerty12_N800: really? I thought it was the ts for the n800	17:02
solca	and n800 sound it seems	17:02
qwerty12_N800	from what I remember, we use ts2301_<something>.c	17:02
qwerty12_N800	but i only know that from 2.6.21, i don't know if they moved things about :/	17:03
qwerty12_N800	solca, yep, no 2301 references in input/touchscreen/omap/omap_ts.c	17:04
solca	qwerty12_N800: uuf	17:04
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qwerty12_N800	i can't see them removing support for the touchscreen when the drivers for the n800 + n810 are so similar. as for sound, i have no idea	17:06
solca	qwerty12_N800: hmm from reading the changes they remove mixer support from the sound of the tsc2301	17:06
qwerty12_N800	yep, i don't get that part :/	17:07
solca	qwerty12_N800: me neither but superficially I can say that if the code was needed is very easy to revert back those eliminations	17:08
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solca	hopefully those drivers compile in the first place	17:08
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qwerty12_N800	solca, cool :)	17:08
Stskeep	~curse internet connectio	17:09
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, internet connectio !	17:09
qwerty12_N800	I'll have to format my sd card again (oh, why did i put so much xvids on it :()	17:09
disco_stu	lol	17:10
Stskeep	"old unused touchscreen drivers", wtf? :P	17:10
solca	Stskeep: that is not very explanatory	17:11
Stskeep	solca: the notice about ts removal in git	17:11
solca	Stskeep: maybe that code didn't compile	17:12
solca	Stskeep: hmm: I have the source code prior to the commits, will check if it compiles... :)	17:12
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qwerty12_N800	solca, I don't mean to bug, but I get a 404 on the kernel patch. I'd like to try a new android on the n800 with touchscreen :)	17:14
solca	qwerty12_N800: can't find support for TSC2391	17:14
solca	qwerty12_N800: let me fix it...	17:14
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solca	qwerty12_N800: was a typo in the filename, try again	17:16
qwerty12_N800	:/. Call me nostalgic but when i have something with speakers, it is nice if they can be used :/. Damn linux-omap people	17:16
qwerty12_N800	ah, ok, thanks	17:16
solca	qwerty12_N800: can't find support for 230x on the touchscreen section	17:17
solca	weird, maybe those drivers didn't were maintained all this time	17:17
qwerty12_N800	yeah :/ 2.6.21 ftw!	17:18
* Meizirkki is untarring nitdroid		17:18
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* Stskeeps wonders what power usage is like on nitdroid		17:19
solca	Meizirkki: this time everything w'll work (nah just kidding)	17:19
Meizirkki	solca: is rd_flags ftill needed	17:19
Meizirkki	*still	17:19
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solca	Meizirkki: no, that is fixed	17:19
Meizirkki	ok	17:19
solca	Stskeeps: it was charging good	17:20
Stskeeps	solca: yeah, well, im talking about battery life	17:20
solca	Stskeeps: but I never measure how it last	17:20
solca	Stskeeps: do you know how to get the battery meters	17:20
solca	how is done that part on maemo currently?	17:21
Stskeeps	kotczarny had a kcbatt	17:21
Stskeeps	it's done through HAL current	17:21
Stskeeps	hald-addon-bme	17:21
Stskeeps	http://mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/kcbatt/	17:21
solca	Stskeeps: is that a zekr3t binary?	17:21
Stskeeps	hald-addon-bme is closed source, yeah	17:21
Meizirkki	i am stucked to the screen with penguin at top corner...	17:22
solca	Stskeeps: that sucks! that means I wil never fix the battery icon	17:22
solca	Meizirkki: for how long?	17:22
Stskeeps	solca: .. hence why we had our non-free repo	17:22
Stskeeps	solca: look at kcbatt.c and make something up	17:22
Meizirkki	solca: ~1min... the it shuts down	17:23
solca	Stskeeps: I don't think so as it uses hal	17:23
Meizirkki	rd-mode is disabled	17:23
Stskeeps	solca: kcbatt.c doesn't	17:23
solca	Meizirkki: hmm weird	17:23
Stskeeps	it talks to tahvo/retu	17:23
solca	Stskeeps: that is a good solution, will take a look	17:23
Stskeeps	but this may not be 100% precise	17:23
solca	Meizirkki: try again, maybe it crashed in the way	17:24
ShadowJK	Somehow I think there's more beyond what kcbatt can extract	17:24
Stskeeps	yeah, after seeing what ftd can drag out	17:24
Meizirkki	solca: i have tried now 4 times...	17:24
ShadowJK	exactly	17:24
Meizirkki	i'll try reflashing the kernbel	17:24
solca	Meizirkki: maybe try the debugging version to see what is going on	17:24
* Stskeeps waits on mer baking		17:25
Meizirkki	solca: ok	17:25
Meizirkki	solca: wait	17:25
Meizirkki	solca: i'll remove the ext-sd	17:25
Meizirkki	might be about it	17:25
solca	Meizirkki: yes, that was the problem yesterday if I remember correctly	17:26
Meizirkki	it boots	17:26
Meizirkki	i wonder why it stucks when ext-sd is inserted...	17:26
solca	Stskeeps: kcbatt reads directly from /dev/retu, that is nice	17:26
Meizirkki	solca: i still fail booting	17:29
Meizirkki	it reboots after a long time	17:29
Meizirkki	android splash stops blinking and then... reboot	17:29
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qwerty12_N800	solca, hey, is where to boot from a kernel argument? I'm lazy, I don't want to make 2 new partitions :P :)	17:31
solca	qwerty12_N800: no, they are currently wired in the kernel cmdline	17:32
solca	Meizirkki: really?	17:32
Meizirkki	solca: yes	17:32
solca	hmm thats bad	17:32
Meizirkki	sometimes i see hortizontal lines before booting	17:33
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solca	Meizirkki: do you try the debugging kernel?	17:34
Meizirkki	i did	17:34
solca	Meizirkki: what the console say?	17:35
Meizirkki	there is nothing un-usual in console before android-splash comes up	17:35
Meizirkki	it looks like the userspace refuses to start	17:36
Meizirkki	i'll untar the rootfs again	17:36
solca	Meizirkki: do you get to the A N D R O I D part?	17:36
Meizirkki	yers	17:36
Meizirkki	*yes	17:36
solca	then to the animated splash?	17:37
Meizirkki	instead of the main screen i get hortizontal lines	17:37
Meizirkki	yes i see animated splash...	17:37
Meizirkki	i'll untar again	17:37
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solca	Meizirkki: maybe I changed too much the blizzard timings	17:38
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solca	Meizirkki: will try build another kernel	17:38
Meizirkki	it could be my bad	17:38
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solca	Meizirkki: no, it doesnt get to the main screen here too	17:39
solca	wait a minute...	17:39
Meizirkki	okay	17:39
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solca	Meizirkki: it crashed again, will remove my hacks	17:45
solca	Meizirkki: this bug sucks!!!	17:46
Meizirkki	yep	17:46
Meizirkki	doesn't android recuire double/pageflipping framebuffer?	17:47
solca	Meizirkki: yes	17:47
solca	but that is working properly	17:47
solca	what is crashing is the blizzard LCD controller	17:48
solca	not the omapfb	17:48
Meizirkki	ok	17:48
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Meizirkki	could the blizzard LCD controller be used with maemo	17:49
Meizirkki	maybe mer?	17:49
solca	it is used	17:49
Meizirkki	ok	17:49
qwerty12_N800	Meizirkki, when you watch a film and see it stuttering, you have proof that it's used :)	17:50
Meizirkki	:P	17:50
solca	:)	17:50
solca	Meizirkki: do you have the yesterday kernel?	17:50
Meizirkki	no..	17:50
solca	hmm, thatm seems more stable that this ones	17:50
Meizirkki	i cleaned up my home directory 2 minutes ago	17:51
solca	too much pulchritude on your side ;)	17:52
Meizirkki	sorry, i do not understand what pulchritude means	17:53
solca	Meizirkki: somebody who demands cleaning very often	17:55
solca	maybe a modism from my side thou...	17:55
Meizirkki	well, thats not true ;P	17:55
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ssvb	qwerty12_N800: no, the problem is because good ARMv6 optimizations are missing in video decoder, blizzard is fast enough	17:56
Meizirkki	even if iclean up, my home directory is still full of s*hit ;)	17:56
Stskeeps	.. like my office	17:57
qwerty12	ssvb, ah, learn something new every day :)	17:57
solca	Meizirkki: :P	17:57
qwerty12	I'm sorry epson for all the times I've insulted you	17:57
Meizirkki	solca: i have the yesterdays kernel!	17:57
Meizirkki	i downloaded it to my tablet	17:58
solca	Meizirkki: phewww....	17:58
solca	try it	17:58
Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer/Screenshot-1.png <- now we're getting somewhere	17:58
* Meizirkki is flashing yesterdays kernel...		17:58
solca	Stskeeps: it looks closer...	17:59
solca	Stskeeps: by the wasy are there newer tars	17:59
solca	s/wasy/way/g	17:59
infobot	solca meant: Stskeeps: by the way are there newer tars	17:59
Stskeeps	of mer? no, we have a image builder now	17:59
Stskeeps	i'll make some tar.gz's eventually	18:00
Stskeeps	http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/imager/files	18:00
Meizirkki	solca: android refuses to boot	18:00
Meizirkki	wait	18:00
Stskeeps	(look at targets/mer-n800-onlyfs, and look back)	18:00
Meizirkki	i forgot the rd-mode	18:01
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solca	Stskeeps: so how is the installation now? manually download to a dir and then mass copy to the target?	18:02
Stskeeps	solca: debootstrap required on device, run shellscript which then bakes everything together	18:03
* solca wonders how many more time he have left to flash his kernel partition		18:03
solca	Stskeeps: ah	18:03
Stskeeps	hehe, take out "too many flashes" insurance :P	18:03
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Stskeeps	in the mer-n800-Ãonlyfs it just puts everything in the dir you tell it to	18:04
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Stskeeps	another target will generate a rootfs.jffs2, etc	18:04
Stskeeps	.. another will generate one for i386, and so on	18:04
qwerty12	solca, don't worry about it, you don't want to know how many times I've flashed the kernel & initfs :PP	18:04
qwerty12	*-P	18:04
solca	qwerty12: belive me, I do at least 1 flash every 5 min	18:04
qwerty12	hehe, I went through tons of flashes when I was testing the black bootmenu	18:05
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solca	Meizirkki: do you solve something	18:08
Meizirkki	it did not boot with the old kernel and i cannot unmount partition cleanly after untarring because device is busy :(	18:09
Meizirkki	finally it unmounted cleanly	18:11
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solca	Meizirkki: I finally got something stable (until now)	18:12
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Meizirkki	solca: maybe problem in rootfs?	18:14
solca	no, the problem is the kernel	18:15
Meizirkki	android does not boot with the kernel it booted yesterday	18:15
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Meizirkki	i have rd-mode on, no ext-sd inserted...	18:15
Meizirkki	it worked testerday	18:15
solca	Meizirkki: are you trying the rootfs from yesterday or tadays?	18:16
Meizirkki	todays	18:16
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Stskeeps	btw, why is it that android always pop up when i start new projects? :>	18:16
Stskeeps	happened with deblet too :>	18:17
Meizirkki	i don't even get the ANDROID to left side of the screen	18:17
solca	ok, display is working good now, will upload new kernels	18:17
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: :P	18:17
solca	Stskeeps: :)	18:17
Meizirkki	solca: great :P	18:17
* Stskeeps ponders recompiling the x server		18:18
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: Jauntys universe is now pretty big and most of the lxde packages are already built :)	18:18
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solca	Meizirkki: download the normal kernel again	18:19
Meizirkki	okay	18:20
solca	will upload the debugging	18:20
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: woo	18:20
* Meizirkki is waiting for android to boot		18:23
solca	qwerty12 or Stskeeps: my kernels uses PREEMPT and NOHZ, that is good for batteries right?	18:23
Stskeeps	nohz is the dyntick stuff?	18:24
solca	Meizirkki: yep	18:24
qwerty12	solca, no idea. I used a 2.6.21 kernel with preempt though fine with no adverse effects on battery	18:24
solca	Stskeeps: *yep	18:24
Meizirkki	solca: it boots and wifi goes on	18:25
solca	Meizirkki: finally...	18:25
Meizirkki	but it is unable to scan for networks	18:25
Meizirkki	and i can't type ssid because the hw-keyboard does not work :(	18:25
solca	Meizirkki: :(	18:26
solca	it seems I heavy broke the kbd layout	18:26
Meizirkki	nth:s android had working keyboard... but it was buggy comparing to yours	18:26
solca	Meizirkki: but you can remove my kbd layout	18:27
Meizirkki	i mean their android was buggy, not the keyboard	18:27
Meizirkki	solca: what do you mean?	18:27
solca	and it will fallback to normal qwerty	18:27
Meizirkki	how can i remove that	18:27
solca	you need to get into	18:27
Meizirkki	into what?	18:28
Meizirkki	rootfs?	18:28
solca	you need to remove this file: /system/usr/keylayout/Internal_keyboard.kl	18:28
Meizirkki	okay	18:28
solca	you can get in with adb	18:28
solca	and the usb cable	18:29
Meizirkki	solca: btw: thanks for all the help!!! :P	18:29
solca	Meizirkki: no prob, I'm excited that all this effort was not vane	18:29
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aquatix	hm, i have the maemo news feed in google reader, but it imports a lot of double articles; every time the score of an article changes, it gets added	18:38
aquatix	some webmaster that can look at that?	18:38
Meizirkki	solca: keyboard still not working :(	18:48
Stskeeps	kulve: how are your manual updates on omapfb these days?	18:48
solca	Meizirkki: do you remove that file	18:48
Meizirkki	i did	18:48
Meizirkki	wait	18:48
solca	and reboot	18:49
Meizirkki	i made some modifications :P	18:49
Meizirkki	solca: where can i get ADB?	18:50
Meizirkki	solca: found it	18:50
solca	Meizirkki: just run it like this: sudo ./adb shell	18:51
Meizirkki	i can not untar it	18:52
Meizirkki	is it only 60kb?	18:52
solca	its not in tar, it is just bzip2ed	18:53
Meizirkki	untarred	18:53
solca	bunzip adb.x86.bz2	18:53
Meizirkki	that was it :P	18:53
Meizirkki	thanks	18:53
Meizirkki	(again)	18:53
solca	Meizirkki: hey WiFi scanning is not working here!	18:54
* solca fixes less than what he brokes		18:54
kulve	Stskeeps: we don't use manual updates I think	18:55
Stskeeps	k	18:55
Stskeeps	definately speeds things up, just noticed you had a manual_updates branch, but it seemed to be for xv stuff	18:55
solca	Stskeeps: when trying to implement double buffering in the kernel I found that omapfb does have	18:57
solca	variuos "planes"	18:57
Meizirkki	solca: itold you that it does not work	18:57
solca	for xv	18:58
Meizirkki	solca: when i get kb to work i will manually add ssid	18:58
Stskeeps	solca: yeah	18:58
solca	Stskeeps: I'm getting crashes maybe because the LCD cant cope with double buffering	18:58
Meizirkki	solca: even the qwerty.kl won't work	18:58
Stskeeps	solca: no clue from here :P	18:59
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andre__	Maemo.org Bugzilla reorganization done. Will go live again in a few minutes.	18:59
andre__	Should go and buy three kilograms of chocolate now.	19:00
solca	Meizirkki: Stskeeps k, will keep investigating, maybe doing flipping with the planes could solve the whole thing	19:00
solca	Meizirkki: *sorry	19:00
Stskeeps	andre__: and a hello kitty tshirt?	19:00
Meizirkki	solca: no problem	19:00
solca	Meizirkki: there is another file	19:00
andre__	Stskeeps, with sugar on top, please! YAY!	19:00
solca	Meizirkki: /system/usr/keychars/Internal_keyboard.kcm.bin	19:01
Meizirkki	solca: i should delete it?	19:01
Meizirkki	ok	19:01
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solca	yea delete it	19:01
solca	or move it	19:01
solca	but you got to reboot	19:01
Meizirkki	ok	19:02
Meizirkki	thanks	19:02
RST38h	andre: Buy it and use it to bribe female clerks	19:02
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andre__	RST38h, i already have a skirt, isn't that enough?	19:03
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Meizirkki	solca: is there a way to mount androids rootfs to one dir in my computer	19:03
Meizirkki	with adb	19:03
Meizirkki	?	19:03
qwerty12	whee: http://gitorious.org/projects/stlc45xx/repos/mainline/commits/6235c93f2bb3192364fc44e1819685382c86c428	19:03
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solca	Meizirkki: dunno, but you can push or pull files at will	19:04
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Meizirkki	ok	19:04
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Meizirkki	solca: i have had no fading away problems with this kernel :)	19:04
RST38h	andre: No. Chocolate is just about the best bribing currency though	19:05
solca	Meizirkki: I ocassionally get one when forcing to much redraws	19:05
disco_stu	someone notices difference between class 4 and class 6 mem cards in their tablets ?	19:05
solca	Meizirkki: so Wifi doesnt work	19:05
RST38h	qwerty: This stuff looks suspiciously like firmware	19:05
Stskeeps	qwerty12: \o/	19:05
Meizirkki	solca: sure?	19:06
* andre__ writes down the words of wisdom from RST38h		19:06
solca	qwerty12: that is good news	19:06
qwerty12	RST38h, if it is, you won't hear a word of complaint from me ;P	19:06
* solca wonders how much performance drops from not calibrating		19:06
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RST38h	BTW, gPhone is now sold unlocked, for $400 + $25 for developer registration	19:09
RST38h	In case anybody feels like writing Java apps at the cost of $425...	19:09
AStorm	nah	19:10
AStorm	I wouldn't want to write Java apps even if paid to do so	19:10
AStorm	unless I'd be paid a lot :P	19:10
RST38h	AStorm: There is plenty of people in Mumbai who will be willing to write 'em for less =)	19:11
andre__	Yay, Bugzilla back up for public. Enjoy the party. I want flames!	19:11
qwerty12	WOOT WOOT	19:11
* AStorm sets andre__ on fire		19:11
AStorm	you wanted flames, right?	19:11
andre__	w00t w00t, exactly :)	19:11
* RST38h feels more and more like "I don't give a fuck" when commenting on bugs recently		19:11
t_s_o	burn the heretics! moahahahahahaha!	19:11
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RST38h	Not much is gonna happen anyway	19:12
AStorm	RST38h, as to outsourcing, they'll do it worse	19:12
AStorm	:P	19:12
RST38h	AStorm: Ah, nobody cares how java apps are written =)	19:12
RST38h	It is like VB - the standards are pretty low there	19:12
AStorm	that's why I dislike it, with a passion :P	19:13
x29a	cant wait for christmas	19:13
disco_stu	RST38h: thats not true	19:14
AStorm	uhm, no, no more bells	19:14
RST38h	Nobody is gonna tap you to do it though. Eastern Europe prices are higher so the only reason to outsource to Eastern Europe is when you actually want a developer who can do stuff on his own and explain it in passable English	19:14
AStorm	especially jingling	19:14
AStorm	RST38h, indeed	19:14
RST38h	Otherwise for each of you there are 5 Indians and 50 Chinese willing to do the work, cheaper	19:15
AStorm	that's why I'm looking for a nice embedded soft coding job :>	19:15
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* RST38h wonders how long those are gonna last, with so many people being fired stateside...		19:16
AStorm	hehe	19:16
AStorm	chinese can't write english	19:17
x29a	AStorm: hehe, i hope my n810 will jingle the bells	19:17
AStorm	most of them	19:17
AStorm	RST38h, here they're still hiring	19:17
AStorm	but there's a problem with lack of proper R&D centers	19:18
AStorm	so really all the jobs are truly denigrating java orm...	19:18
AStorm	or analysis	19:18
AStorm	ehh	19:18
AStorm	bad country for me	19:19
AStorm	should move to Finland or somewhere	19:19
AStorm	(prereq is learning Finnish)	19:20
AStorm	or to Germany (prereq: improving my weak German)	19:20
AStorm	so, meh	19:20
AStorm	</rant>	19:20
Stskeeps	isn't prereq practising on your vodka drinking skills?	19:20
Stskeeps	for .fi	19:20
AStorm	Stskeeps, I'm Polish	19:21
AStorm	I can outdrink anyone who's not Russian	19:21
Stskeeps	ah.	19:21
AStorm	:P	19:21
Stskeeps	well in shape then.	19:21
* Stskeeps has a polish gf and when he met his mother in law first time, i was welcomed with several vodka shots..		19:21
RST38h	AStorm: Same here, although at a lower rate	19:21
Stskeeps	:P	19:21
trenka	AStorm: competition? ;)	19:21
AStorm	trenka, nah, I don't have any on me	19:22
Meizirkki	solca: instead of fadeaways android sometimes power-offs	19:22
RST38h	AStorm: Although they have started firing the office mice - bottom level managers, journalists, sales people	19:22
AStorm	and a pointless management plan to write	19:22
AStorm	RST38h, expecting recession?	19:22
RST38h	AStorm: Apparently, you can survive in Fnland with English alone	19:22
AStorm	they are acting as to make one :P	19:23
RST38h	Germany - prolly need to learn German	19:23
^Tux^	I'm .us, but I once broke a metacarpel in my hand after drinking > 1gal of tank-car vodka (heaven hill) and doing cart-wheels off a deck.. so I'll get in on this vodka challenge.. :P	19:23
^Tux^	;P	19:23
AStorm	really? I'll try it then	19:23
solca	Meizirkki: can you check if it happens when idle?	19:23
RST38h	AStorm: entering recession already	19:23
solca	Meizirkki: and how you feel it in speed compared to yesterdays version?	19:23
AStorm	Tux: hmmm, then you were drunk	19:24
RST38h	AStorm: construction slowing down, realty prices falling, etc	19:24
AStorm	RST38h, yep, bad times	19:24
RST38h	AStorm: The place is tied up to the oil/gas/ore prices and those are falling through the floor	19:24
AStorm	and in this fun time I get to enter the marketplace	19:24
AStorm	mah	19:24
Meizirkki	solca: it happens randomly	19:24
^Tux^	drunk was an understatement	19:24
^Tux^	;P	19:24
Meizirkki	solca: i think the speed is mostly same	19:25
Meizirkki	solca: not slower	19:25
AStorm	Tux: 1gal = x liter?	19:25
^Tux^		19:25
^Tux^	1 US gallon = 3.78541178 liter	19:25
RST38h	AStorm: Somehow I do not think embedded programmming stuff is going anywhere	19:25
^Tux^	google	19:25
^Tux^	;D	19:25
RST38h	It is akin to coffin making in that sense =)	19:25
solca	Meizirkki: do you think the speed is to slow or is adequate?	19:25
AStorm	RST38h, but demand will go up	19:25
AStorm	the devices will always be needed	19:26
RST38h	AStorm: For coffins or embedded devices? =)	19:26
solca	Meizirkki: I can't figure out how to squeeze more speed thoug	19:26
AStorm	heck, I could write code for washing machines too	19:26
ShadowJK	heh	19:26
AStorm	RST38h, both :P	19:26
x29a	which devices do you guys have?	19:26
* RST38h wrote code for a hot dog making machine once		19:26
* x29a is getting hungry		19:26
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ShadowJK	If you think speed is too slow, well it's always going to be "too slow", because desktop will still be ahead of whatever you've got in your hand :P	19:26
RST38h	and had to help designing the hw too	19:26
AStorm	ShadowJK, :>	19:27
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AStorm	RST38h, fun, fun, fun	19:27
lcuk	ShadowJK, psh, design to take these things into account and it wont be slow	19:27
^Tux^	I hear JK has the problem of things being "too small" vs "too slow" when they're in his hand	19:27
^Tux^	:(	19:27
Meizirkki	solca: i think the speed is good enough for me, it is not too slow. at the end, n810:s hardware is not very fast	19:27
AStorm	RST38h, unlike coding Java	19:27
RST38h	AStorm: the way it cooked the sausage was almost erotic	19:27
* lcuk thinks the n810 is fast		19:27
ShadowJK	And if you have a webpage with 10 CPU hogging flash applets that peak your quad core desktop but still works fine, obviously it's going to be horrible on any CPU that fits with a powersource in your hand	19:28
RST38h	lcuk: When compared with my OMAP850 based E70 - yes	19:28
AStorm	n810 is fairly fast	19:28
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AStorm	could use 2x ram and OMAP3	19:28
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solca	Meizirkki: ok, I'm getting tired of the keyboard malfunction, is the next thing I'll fix	19:28
ShadowJK	E70 with opera mini loads reuters about 10 times faster than N810 :-)	19:28
AStorm	and proper LCD controller	19:28
RST38h	flash is just badly implemented, it is not supposed to hog CPU	19:28
solca	I promise :)	19:28
AStorm	heh	19:28
t_s_o	hmm, a unlocked version of G1, just need to sign up for a dev account over at google. tempting ;)	19:28
lcuk	AStorm, it would be faster if it could simply use all its limbs	19:28
RST38h	Shadow: Unless the OS decides to terminate that Opera when the memory gets exhausted	19:28
AStorm	lcuk, hmm?	19:29
ShadowJK	RST38h, and on N810 instead of getting the browser terminated, the watchdog just reboots the entire device when it starts swapping too much, heh.	19:29
AStorm	ShadowJK, sorry, not	19:29
AStorm	I checked	19:29
Stskeeps	t_s_o: "telnetd"	19:29
Meizirkki	solca: from adb: # wlan_loader	19:29
Stskeeps	:P	19:29
Meizirkki	fatal error opening "/sys/power/acquire_partial_wake_lock"	19:29
AStorm	ShadowJK, haha, simple to fix	19:29
RST38h	Shadow: Never happened to me	19:29
t_s_o	Stskeeps?	19:29
lcuk	powervr iva etc	19:30
AStorm	sysctl -w vm.overcommit_memory=2	19:30
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lcuk	2d accel	19:30
ShadowJK	AStorm, it does it even if I have lots of swapspace free?	19:30
Stskeeps	t_s_o: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=680	19:30
AStorm	lcuk, well, yes	19:30
solca	Meizirkki: no idea, wlan_loader is the tiwlan driver loader for the G1	19:30
AStorm	still, lcd controller is junk	19:30
solca	Meizirkki: (I presume)	19:30
Meizirkki	solca: ok	19:30
suihkulokki	yeah, knowing finnish is not a requirement for (tech) job in .fi	19:30
AStorm	ShadowJK, that's old cpu sched for you	19:30
suihkulokki	alcoholo consumpition skills are, however, a bonus :)	19:30
solca	Meizirkki: logcat can tell you more things	19:31
Meizirkki	ok	19:31
t_s_o	Stskeeps: yep, i know about that bug...	19:31
AStorm	ShadowJK, also, olld timing code using jiffies	19:31
t_s_o	iirc, its patched now	19:31
ShadowJK	I don't really believe much in the idea that giving more computing power will make things faster. People constnatly find new stupid things to waste CPU,GPU and whatever on to take you back to slowness again :)	19:31
AStorm	ShadowJK, all fixed some time ago in linux-omap	19:31
lcuk	ShadowJK, +1	19:32
AStorm	ShadowJK, unless we go to full 3D	19:32
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lcuk	AStorm: farcry	19:32
ShadowJK	AStorm, I imagine it's just because flash is so slow to swap to, that it takes more than 30 seconds for whatever daeemon that prods the watchdog to run?	19:32
Meizirkki	solca: android settings says wlan is on, but netcfg says it is down...	19:32
AStorm	in 2D, there's just so many things to waste power on	19:32
AStorm	ShadowJK, yes	19:32
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AStorm	and watchdog isn't getting scheduled	19:33
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AStorm	thanks to O(1) sched	19:33
Riiika	is there some lighter/faster flash to install to newest OS2007HE in Nokia 770 than flash9?	19:33
solca	Meizirkki: yea something is not working right, as when I turn on is good but if I turn it off the on it doesnt get on until next reboot	19:33
AStorm	Riiika, I don't think so	19:33
Meizirkki	solca: yep	19:33
t_s_o	its kinda funny how gpe file manager can scroll using dpad without input lag (release button, it stops) while app manger and other nokia made apps seems to scroll for 10 seconds after button is released...	19:34
solca	well got to go, see you	19:34
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Meizirkki	solca: # netcfg wlan0 up action 'up' failed (No such file or directory)	19:34
ShadowJK	Meizirkki, you can certainly slow things down with 3D too. Like, on my desktop I can use the gl output of MPlayer, the scaling and transform is accelerated by the GPU. This is however slower than Xv, which has a more direct 2D path to do the same. The GL approach starts performing better once you also have it do things liek sharpening, that you'd have to do in software with Xvideo..	19:34
Meizirkki	k	19:34
AStorm	t_s_o, it's the same code really... they need to switch the kernel	19:34
AStorm	and check ondemand settings	19:34
Meizirkki	solca: bye	19:35
AStorm	set the threshold to 50 (it's 80 now)	19:35
t_s_o	AStorm: sorry?	19:35
ShadowJK	AStorm, the CPU scheduler can't do much if it's waiting for the watchdog to come back from swap... It'd need cleverer io scheduling and shorter io queues maybe..	19:35
AStorm	ShadowJK, watchdog won't be swapped	19:35
t_s_o	i was talking about gpe file manager in use on my N800 running diablo...	19:35
AStorm	because it's an RT task	19:35
GeneralAntilles	http://flickr.com/photos/jsmanrique/3086624756/sizes/o/	19:36
ShadowJK	AStorm, which of the daemons is responsible for prodding the watchdog?	19:36
AStorm	t_s_o, it's the same gtk code	19:36
AStorm	ShadowJK, hmm, dsme afaicr	19:36
t_s_o	in other words, its something internal to the other code thats the issue?	19:36
AStorm	but you can also prod it manually via sysfs	19:36
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, i saw that, the contacts looks like mine damn them \@/ and the camera one isnt real	19:37
t_s_o	GeneralAntilles: looks like someone is dreaming of a iphone...	19:37
AStorm	t_s_o, yup	19:37
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ShadowJK	AStorm, dsme doesn't seem to have locked its memory? if you can at all trust the busybox 'ps'...	19:37
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, it really does	19:37
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lcuk	i wonder if the contacts are going to be floating like mine do	19:37
GeneralAntilles	Interesting that they'd use an N810 for what appears to be phone interface mockups.	19:37
AStorm	ShadowJK, sure	19:37
AStorm	it should mlock	19:37
ShadowJK	right, /proc/pid/status confirms that dsme's memory pages aren't locked, so it gets paged out like everything else too, even if its priority is set lower	19:38
ShadowJK	and it's not RT priority?	19:38
AStorm	but newer kernels won't swap out any RT priority tasks	19:38
t_s_o	the top right image reminds me of samsungs latest phone interface, only that samsung have the menu on the left...	19:38
t_s_o	all in all, meh...	19:39
AStorm	ShadowJK, ooh, bug!	19:39
AStorm	fix it, simple initfs change	19:39
AStorm	mlock will be harder	19:39
AStorm	alternatively, write a tiny daemon to prod the watchdog	19:39
ShadowJK	bme_RX-44 on the other hand is running at RT priority...	19:40
ShadowJK	dsme is just nice -1	19:40
AStorm	I might have mixed them up	19:40
AStorm	check which one is started in initfs	19:40
qwerty12	They're both started from initfs iirc	19:41
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t_s_o	gah, i really would like a mark option in the edit menu of the browser, that would basically lock the scroll and allow me to mark text with a simple drag of the stylus rather then the somewhat silly double-tap and drag we have today...	19:42
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AStorm	yup, that would be nice	19:43
AStorm	write a bug maybe?	19:43
t_s_o	iirc, i may already have...	19:43
* GeneralAntilles doesn't recall one.		19:43
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t_s_o	probably will go "fixed in fremantle" if not tho...	19:43
GeneralAntilles	Unlikely	19:43
GeneralAntilles	I don't see them implementing something kludgy like that	19:43
AStorm	one menu option? :P	19:44
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, pfft.	19:44
t_s_o	well, thats the option alternative, GeneralAntilles	19:44
GeneralAntilles	You know better than that.	19:44
t_s_o	oops	19:44
lcuk	if we have a keyboard we could have something like shift to lock	19:44
AStorm	where's the kludge? it would be one step closer to vimperator :P	19:44
AStorm	(modal browser)	19:44
t_s_o	lcuk: sadly i only own a N800...	19:44
ShadowJK	I'd like to have an option to lock to right click, for times when I don't want it to mistake a hold for left click	19:44
GeneralAntilles	:shudder:	19:44
GeneralAntilles	Just wait for Fremantle's fully open-source browser	19:45
AStorm	heh	19:45
t_s_o	meh, maybe we could get someone in the community to unofficially patch the brower ui. or was that proprietary code?	19:45
AStorm	xul or gtk?	19:45
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, it's closed.	19:45
t_s_o	figures...	19:45
GeneralAntilles	Better off talking to Bundyo about his selection methods	19:45
AStorm	t_s_o, fremantle will have that opened	19:46
t_s_o	AStorm: at that point i may as well be using a pandora...	19:46
ShadowJK	how does browser/browserd work, does browser just give a window ID for browserd to display to? is browserd opensource?	19:46
AStorm	t_s_o, heh. yes	19:46
RST38h	Pandora? Hehe :)	19:47
AStorm	ShadowJK, no and no	19:47
lcuk	people have their pandoras now don't they?	19:47
RST38h	lcuk: delayed by 6 months	19:47
lcuk	theres a surprise	19:47
* GeneralAntilles thinks pancake's a bit bitter.		19:47
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, and what prevents you from running Fremantle on that? :P	19:47
t_s_o	on what? the pandora? nothing, but im not sure i would want to...	19:48
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, you can make the pancake sweeter by adding more memory to it	19:48
StsN800	GeneralAntilles, pancake=0xffff guy or?	19:48
t_s_o	as i suspect nokia will be sneaking in some elements of "differentiation"...	19:48
GeneralAntilles	StsN800, yes, maemo-community post.	19:48
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GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, sneaking?	19:48
AStorm	what for?	19:49
GeneralAntilles	You do realize Fremantle will be significantly more open than Diablo, right?	19:49
RST38h	AStorm: To sell more different devices	19:49
ShadowJK	I wonder if they will kill icd	19:49
RST38h	This has been their trademark behaviour for years	19:49
AStorm	RST38h, different target audience?	19:49
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, supposedly the networking setup will be changing.	19:49
RST38h	AStorm: Yes, basically the same hardware but some features (usually software like fast JVM or 3D API) disabled in some phones	19:49
ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, icd is awesome, so it would be in line with big corporation behaviour to kill it :)	19:49
t_s_o	GeneralAntilles: i will continue to be sceptical until the i see screenshots of running software, downloaded and compiled by not working for nokia...	19:50
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, if the code is available. :\	19:50
lcuk	t_s_o, they only need to release source once it goes on sale, before then they can stay in whatever cathederal they want	19:50
AStorm	RST38h, actually, yes	19:50
t_s_o	lcuk: bingo...	19:51
lcuk	but clutter itself is already open and available	19:51
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, um, Fremantle beta?	19:51
* lcuk lives in a little chapel		19:51
GeneralAntilles	Interesting to note that there's no mention of the delays on http://openpandora.org/	19:51
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, the fremantle beta is the core base with no applications	19:51
lcuk	or thats what i read	19:51
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, none at all?	19:51
GeneralAntilles	I believe you're confusing the beta with the alpha	19:52
GeneralAntilles	Besides, h-a-m is shipping with the alpha.	19:52
lcuk	im oging under the impression it will be like xepyhr is currently	19:52
lcuk	core hildon with no apps	19:52
GeneralAntilles	You'd be under the wrong impression.	19:52
lcuk	then im in for a pleasant surprise then!	19:52
GeneralAntilles	"Beta SDK released between March-May, ready for application development including support for Mozilla based browser and Greasemonkey add-ons."	19:53
GeneralAntilles	Clearly that'll include the browser	19:53
GeneralAntilles	So there's at least two applications, h-a-m and MicroB	19:53
lcuk	no, it says support for, not includes	19:54
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, how do you plan on testing addons without a browser? :)	19:55
lcuk	i dont plan on testing the browser, but i thought xul was universal	19:55
suihkulokki	completly OT: what's the easiest way to provide some n00b a easy way to upload a huge file?	19:56
qwerty12	root access to your server	19:56
GeneralAntilles	How huge?	19:56
lcuk	yes, i concur with qwerty12, post your passwords	19:56
suihkulokki	1+GB	19:56
t_s_o	i have probably asked about this somewhere else, but why isnt the browser interface open source? are the opera binding still floating around in there?	19:56
lcuk	suihkulokki, is it regular uploads?	19:56
lcuk	and do you have control of the server	19:57
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, a variety of reasons, likely.	19:57
lcuk	regular as in often	19:57
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, probably some having to do with availability of time, others to do with silly management thinking about differentiation.	19:57
suihkulokki	lcuk: for now it's one-time case. yes, I have any full control.	19:58
GeneralAntilles	Opera (closed everything) -> Diablo MicroB (open engine) -> Fremantle MicroB (open everything)	19:58
GeneralAntilles	It's a progression. :P	19:58
suihkulokki	I know apache/php is not going to be easy	19:58
t_s_o	http://freefall.purrsia.com/ff1700/fc01658.htm <- this kind of management i take it?	19:58
lcuk	suihkulokki, if they are trusted users give them ftp account access, its resumable	19:58
lcuk	(i think)	19:59
suihkulokki	the problem with ftp is 1) firewalls 2) risk of becoming a international piracy hub	20:00
Stskeeps	scp?	20:00
lcuk	suihkulokki, not really, you can give upload perms only	20:00
lcuk	firewalls mostly allow easy ftp through	20:00
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GeneralAntilles	Let's go simple, what about box.net or similar?	20:01
lcuk	i still dont know how you get from an ftp account to international piracy hub	20:01
lcuk	you have control of the users and access permissions and quotas and everything	20:02
qwerty12	lcuk, I don't know about now, but pirates used to scan for dodgy ftp's and upload their warez there	20:02
AStorm	public upload and download -> piracy	20:02
lcuk	dodgy == fully open with silly permissions == granted. but ftp is the still the usual way to transfer big files	20:03
AStorm	that's why any public upload dir must not have download permissions	20:03
StsN800	qwerty12, silly ones yeah	20:03
lcuk	suihkulokki, you could write some kind of torrent tracker and let your users add their files to it	20:04
lcuk	when you notice a new file has been added just start downloading yourself (after making sure it doesnt contain the words "britney" && "naked"	20:05
AStorm	hehe	20:06
* suihkulokki grumbles about legacy protocols and starts reading vsftp docs		20:06
AStorm	private tracker theen	20:06
AStorm	*then	20:06
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t_s_o	hmm, is there a way to alter the font size of just the input boxes in the browser, or do i have to alter the fonts completely?	20:30
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lcuk	t_s_o, sounds like a sane usability upgrade, but ive never see na way to do it without hacks. you oculd possibly do some css tweaking	20:40
GeneralAntilles	He apparently wants comments, but there appears to be no way to register an account to post them. <_< http://omag.es/blog/2008/12/06/nokia-n97-the-n810-and-successors-killer/	20:41
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: indeed	20:42
Stskeeps	i ran into the same	20:42
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/weirdhildon.png <- weird hildon layout i found dormant from 17 months ago in hildon-desktop :P	20:43
AStorm	N97 is suck, yup	20:44
AStorm	as is Symbian :P	20:44
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, lol	20:46
GeneralAntilles	Looks like Ubuntu Mobile or Moblin	20:46
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, that's exactly the thing for me.	20:46
Stskeeps	yeah, but widescreen wasn't that bad for browsing	20:46
GeneralAntilles	Whatever may be cool for hardware-wise in a phone, the software kills it.	20:46
GeneralAntilles	I just don't care about Symbion/WinMob/Palm/iPhone OS/whatever	20:47
GeneralAntilles	They're all sucky and limiting	20:47
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GeneralAntilles	and I don't want to pay $500+ for "sucky and limiting"	20:47
AStorm	of these, ... I'd pick Linux :P	20:48
GeneralAntilles	Right	20:48
GeneralAntilles	I want to be able to do stuff with a device that costs as much as a small laptop	20:48
GeneralAntilles	Symbian doesn't let me do stuf	20:48
GeneralAntilles	f	20:48
ShadowJK	n97 costs more than a small laptop :)	20:49
GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, let's not quibble lamely over degrees. . . .	20:49
GeneralAntilles	I could pick out a small laptop which it is marginally less expensive than.	20:50
t_s_o	lcuk: from what i can tell on the forum, altering the minium font size alters everything. but interestingly enough it can be done via bookmarks ;)	20:50
t_s_o	so that one can bump the fontsize up while entering something by bluetooth keyboard and them bump it back down afterwards...	20:51
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: but we're finally on a sane level again now (http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer/Screenshot-1.png)	20:52
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, lol.	20:52
Stskeeps	:P	20:52
GeneralAntilles	"Welcome to Mer/the Diablo SDK"	20:52
Stskeeps	at least it's not LCARS.	20:53
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	20:53
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Stskeeps	i've also seperated hildon desktop layout from hildon desktop app	20:53
GeneralAntilles	I'm not sure if shipping LCARS as default would attract the right or wrong sort of people. :P	20:53
Stskeeps	which means it is possible to tinker with the interface	20:53
Stskeeps	so if you want a widescreen theme, or mess things up, it's easy :P	20:54
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GeneralAntilles	Awesome http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSWEN145820081206?rpc=64	21:01
GeneralAntilles	Why can't we just let the losers go under and free up that capital for productive economic pursuits? :\	21:01
Stskeeps	communism, my comrade	21:02
Stskeeps	:P	21:02
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that. :/	21:02
GeneralAntilles	Obama's bringing change my ass.	21:02
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AStorm	GeneralAntilles, except that loser will drop a bomb in unemployed people	21:05
ShadowJK	It's a month or more until he becomes president?	21:05
AStorm	:>	21:05
^Tux^	a little over	21:05
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ShadowJK	The thing that puzzles me is	21:06
ShadowJK	why do they need money to developer more efficient cars, when they already sell such cars in europe, heh	21:07
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^Tux^	probably because of .us epa laws	21:07
AStorm	nah	21:07
GeneralAntilles	^	21:07
^Tux^	the clusterfuck that it is	21:07
AStorm	because of patents	21:07
AStorm	they can't just steal some ideas	21:07
RST38h	General: ever read Fred?	21:08
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, steal what ideas? ShadowJK is talking about the more efficient American cars that Ford, etc sell in Europe	21:08
GeneralAntilles	Not European cars. :\	21:08
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RST38h	That "Ford" is actually Mazda =)	21:08
GeneralAntilles	^Tux^ is right, the EPA regulations are to blame.	21:08
AStorm	ah these	21:08
^Tux^	fuck it.. they'll have to pry my v8's from my cold dying foot	21:09
AStorm	whatever	21:09
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	21:09
RST38h	General: Anyways, check out http://www.fredoneverything.net/FOE_Frame_Column.htm	21:09
GeneralAntilles	No, haven't read Fred, RST38h.	21:09
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RST38h	The guy is somewhat repetitive but usually fun to read	21:09
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Stskeeps	hm, didn't know iTT showed who voted for what	21:14
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, depends on the poll	21:14
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RST38h	http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/12/dos-1.jpg	21:18
lcuk	Stskeeps, wheres that	21:21
Stskeeps	ah, it was the "going to buy n900" poll	21:21
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, the one where he voted for who he hates most.	21:21
lcuk	i, for one, am also shocked the poll results are available - not for personal reasons merely because no other online site offers public stats like that	21:22
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, lol?	21:23
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GeneralAntilles	Lots of forums offer polls	21:23
lcuk	yeah but most dont show who voted for what	21:24
GeneralAntilles	It helps me put together shit lists. :P	21:24
* ^Tux^ hates Stskeeps		21:24
Stskeeps	^Tux^: i know	21:25
Stskeeps	:P	21:25
^Tux^	oh wait.. shit.. I can do it annonymously?	21:25
* ^Tux^ runs		21:25
GeneralAntilles	We ALL hate Stskeeps. :P	21:25
^Tux^	if I really hated you.. would I have sat around harassing you for ummm...	21:25
^Tux^	what like almost a decade now?	21:25
^Tux^	:P	21:25
lcuk	tux, love n hate relationship, you love to hate him	21:25
^Tux^	I really love it when he hates me	21:26
^Tux^	:D	21:26
Stskeeps	^Tux^: yeah, close to (a decade)	21:26
^Tux^	like when the LRTF was in full force	21:26
^Tux^	bwahaha..	21:26
* lcuk makes his fishy stop swimming now		21:27
qwerty12_N800	:/	21:27
lcuk	heh qwerty, its part of my rebuild i have a fishy sketch rendering continuously swimming around my screen	21:28
RST38h	lcuk: ading salt, pepper, and boiling the tank?	21:28
GeneralAntilles	lol, liquarium	21:28
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lcuk	:D	21:28
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, nice :D	21:29
lcuk	actually, its a small shoal of overlapping fishies	21:29
* Stskeeps goes port advanced backlight to Mer.		21:31
Stskeeps	(.. again)	21:32
* ^Tux^ slaps Stskeeps around a bit with a large trout		21:32
pupnik	n900 should be very exciting device	21:32
^Tux^	do it right the first time, beotch	21:32
^Tux^	;P	21:32
pupnik	haha @ t-shirt	21:33
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sin18	my tablet (nokia n800/diablo) is sporadically updating and get 'rescuing software update please do not interrupt' message when it boots .... any ideas ?	21:34
sin18	updating=rebooting*	21:34
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pupnik	wow	21:36
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t_s_o	never heard of that before...	21:46
* qwerty12_N800 has had it once but after rebooting, it started normally		21:46
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t_s_o	http://computershopper.com/feature/apple-computer-the-very-early-years	21:48
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GeneralAntilles	sin18, there's supposedly a recovery mode	21:51
GeneralAntilles	I don't really have any details on it, though.	21:51
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sin18	GeneralAntilles : surprisingly i couldnt find any info on internetablettalk	21:52
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GeneralAntilles	sin18, I don't know what causes it to activate or what, exactly, it does.	21:53
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* RST38h yawns widely		22:01
pupnik	need to build dosbox with dynrec core...	22:06
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RST38h	More ugly iPhone-related shit: http://gizmodo.com/5103465/santa-live-iphone-app-pulled-due-to-even-more-controversy	22:27
Stskeeps	heh	22:31
* Stskeeps hugs his tablet		22:31
ssvb	pupnik: I heard that dosbox dynrec core for ARM is not so fast as it could be, what was your experience using it?	22:32
* qwerty12_N800 remembers Scary Movie 2 with "Santa Claus is coming to moms"		22:33
* ^Tux^ slaps Stskeeps around a bit with a large trout		22:35
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pupnik	haven't tried it yet ssvb	22:37
ssvb	ok, i see	22:37
ssvb	I just thought that it might be a good idea to try improving it	22:38
b1ackdeath	i have the my n810 with the rotation stuff installed but, the applactation manager always wants to update the kernel flasher and destroy it, is there a way to tell the aplaction manager that its update	22:42
qwerty12_N800	google something like apt-get pinning	22:43
b1ackdeath	sorry about the spelling i have really bad dyslexia	22:43
b1ackdeath	ok	22:43
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, osv-u?	22:43
GeneralAntilles	outpo.st/rotate	22:43
qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles, ?	22:44
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked should solve it, right?	22:44
qwerty12_N800	I think his problem is that the original kernel / xserver keeps showing up as an update. Jott installs his own version of osso-software-version	22:45
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, jott just uses Nokia's osv-u	22:46
GeneralAntilles	He just provides it himself since Nokia can't seem to wrap their heads around proper repository structures.	22:46
qwerty12_N800	True, but with differences. Look at the ~rotate epochs with jott's version	22:47
Stskeeps	mvo seems to be busy on documentation/making policy, atleast	22:47
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, either way, jott's method seems to be slightly easy to use than pinning.	22:47
GeneralAntilles	"apt-get install rotation-support-n810"	22:47
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qwerty12_N800	I don't know how rotation was installed by b1ackdeath but back to the transporter 3 :)	22:49
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InteliWasp	is there any problems with canola beta 9 maemo3?	22:51
b1ackdeath	qwerty12_N800, i installed kernel-diablo-flasher_2.6.21-200823maemo3_all.modfied.deb,libxrandr2_1.2.1-1_armel.deb,rotate-sb-plugin_0.1-1_armel.deb,xserver-xomap_1.3.99.0~git20070321-0osso20074202_armel.modfied.deb	22:51
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qwerty12_N800	sounds like the old shit I put out. use GeneralAntilles's link	22:51
b1ackdeath	ok	22:51
GeneralAntilles	b1ackdeath, you can use adv-backlight for rotation, too.	22:52
b1ackdeath	i do =p	22:52
GeneralAntilles	b1ackdeath, http://outpo.st/rotate	22:52
GeneralAntilles	Click the .install appropriate for your tablet	22:52
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GeneralAntilles	Application Manager will bitch at you, tap through its dialogs then close it	22:52
GeneralAntilles	then run "apt-get install rotation-support-n810"	22:53
ShadowJK	does wayfinder work rotated?	22:53
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InteliWasp	is there a way to make a text file of all the packages on my n800?	23:05
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qwerty12_N800	could try 'dpkg-query -l > /what/ever.txt'	23:06
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Stskeeps	evening m-vo	23:11
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m-vo	Evening!	23:15
GeneralAntilles	Howdy, m-vo. :)	23:15
* m-vo is trying out ERC that he has installed using Tom Tromey's Elisp package manager.		23:15
RST38h	Decoy fails to deploy, but missile test called 'success' <== umgh	23:16
Stskeeps	RST38h: Star Wars project?	23:16
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m-vo	GeneralAntilles: I pushed the translations, did you try them?	23:17
InteliWasp	qwerty12_N800, thanks	23:17
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RST38h	Sts: goddamn interceptor-based missile defense	23:17
Stskeeps	RST38h: yup, SDI :P	23:17
Stskeeps	it's not a good system when even a west wing episode deals with the topic..	23:18
Stskeeps	:P	23:18
GeneralAntilles	m-vo, haven't looked yet, gearing up for finals next week. ;)	23:18
Stskeeps	.. or even robocop	23:18
RST38h	Sts: SDI was a little bit different animal	23:18
RST38h	Sts: This one is based on intercepting a ballistic missile at the early stage (after launch)	23:19
Stskeeps	true	23:19
RST38h	Sts: Bush majorly pissed off the Russians by insisting on placing it in .PL and .CZ "to protect against Iran"	23:19
RST38h	And the thing doesn't even work properly =(	23:20
m-vo	GeneralAntilles: ahh, good luck!	23:20
Stskeeps	RST38h: given his knowledge of geography, he probably thinks iran is a state within russia.	23:20
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RST38h	Sts: Whatever he thinks, his handlers definitely know what they are doing	23:22
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* Stskeeps queues advanced-backlight for build		23:31
RST38h	reminds me to make myself an empty project for the status bar applet	23:33
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Stskeeps	lo moontiger	23:35
moontiger	yo!	23:35
moontiger	:)	23:35
moontiger	public internet in madrid sux	23:36
Stskeeps	hehe	23:36
Stskeeps	aren't there hordes of FON spots?	23:36
moontiger	nope	23:36
moontiger	ut i do have my 3g data plan and can connect thru that at reasonable speeds	23:37
moontiger	+b	23:37
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moontiger	im on prepaid right now so its 1.39E per day	23:37
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RST38h	Not bad	23:39
Meiz_n810	here i would be 1.39E per megabyte	23:43
pupnik	those insane roaming costs should be ruled illegal	23:46
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GeneralAntilles	lol, pupnik. :p	23:46
GeneralAntilles	they just need to kill the damn monopolies	23:46
Meiz_n810	pupnik: it is not roaming :)	23:47
Stskeeps	pupnik: yet when you're standing in the mountains of poland and you have no wifi nearby to catch with the tablet.. you pay it :(	23:47
Meiz_n810	Ubuntu-MID is installable =P	23:48
pupnik	Meiz_n810: on N8x0?	23:49
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: scary	23:49
Meiz_n810	yes	23:49
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Stskeeps	flash or kourou?	23:49
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Meiz_n810	both are available but i have no idea what it will use	23:50
Stskeeps	k	23:50
Stskeeps	interesting anyway :)	23:50
* Stskeeps continues beating adv-backlight into submission		23:50
* GeneralAntilles comforts adv-backlight.		23:50
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Stskeeps	atleast with this build procedure we're sure the packages are clean and neat. :P	23:52
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pupnik	"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case.... Coincidence?" --Stephen Wright	23:55
t_s_o	:P	23:56
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^Tux^	slow drinkers	23:59
^Tux^	:(	23:59
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