IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-11-11

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dksaarthcan anybody here help me get my app installed to the emulator ? I have successfully installed the necessary libraries from source packages, and succesfully built my program00:05
dksaarthim now trying to get it to my emulated device00:06
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dksaarthhow do I go about that ? previously i could install the made packages, but i now i only have source file, make file and executable ?00:06
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johnxone power supply later...00:08
Stskeepsick, it died?00:08
dksaarthwelcome back johnx00:08
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johnxit died a slow painful death00:08
Stskeepsjohnx: one more for the deblet/m-r "in memoriam" list00:08
dksaarthjohnx, could you give me some more advice ? is it necessary to build a package to get it onto my emulated device ? I have successfully installed the necessary libraries from source packages, and succesfully built my program00:08
Stskeepswith the other project i had it was hosting providers going bankrupt, heh00:08
dksaarthbut I only have source files, make file and a executable00:09
Stskeepsdksaarth: qemu emulator or?00:09
dksaarthsb2 ? I dont understand the question ?00:09
dksaarththe thing that shows up when I do maemo-runtime start diablo41_armel :)00:09
Stskeepssb2 is basically just a cross-compilation environment00:09
Stskeepsthat's xephyr00:09
johnxdksaarth, you can just copy stuff in to place, but the more libraries you have the more of a pain it is00:10
Stskeepsexport DISPLAY=:1; ./yourprogram or something isnt it?00:10
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Stskeepsor the one00:11
Stskeeps(i dunno with maemo sdk+)00:11
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johnxso what are the practical consequences of osso-gnomevfs not conflicting with libgnomevfs?00:13
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infobotjohnx meant: so what are the practical consequences of osso-gnomevfs  conflicting with libgnomevfs?00:15
dksaarththanks Stskeeps00:15
Stskeepsjohnx: everything gnome breaks00:15
Stskeepsjohnx: i'm recompiling with style similar to ubuntu00:15
Stskeeps2:version vs version00:15
dksaarthis it possible to get network access through this emulator ? I'm trying to see if my program can run on these devices without too much recoding - so far i have install the necessary libraries, compiled it, and it appears on screen00:17
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dksaarthI would like to see if some of the network functionality is there (to test out if my libraries worked, but if i can compile and run they should have been done correctly right ? )00:18
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Stskeepswell its not really an emulator, it's just a x server within a x server and your binary runs on top of your linux kernel00:19
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dksaarthokay, compiled for arm tho ?00:20
Stskeepsit uses a binary emulator so00:20
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Stskeepsshould have net access then, may need to use ips then00:21
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dksaarththe sending of the sip messages works00:23
* Stskeeps finds HCI papers goes down a lot easier with vodka.00:23
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dksaarthBasically, the reason I have been playing around with this stuff is that I want to write a proposal for our lab to get 2 N8x0's00:23
dksaarthbut in order to do that, I need to say it won't be that hard to port the software00:24
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Stskeepswe have a bunch of n8x0s (i'm a student programmer), two beagleboards.. i love my work00:24
dksaarthaah awesome00:24
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dksaarthi have my app on screen apparently working - is this as far as I can take it before buying one ? or is there some more emulation I can do ?00:24
Stskeepsthere's some more possibility but you need a firmware image and stuff00:25
dksaarthaah okay00:26
Stskeepsbut if you have your app working like that, you're good to go00:26
dksaarthnow I just need to convince my supervisor ;)00:26
Stskeepsand if he says anything there's also debian for the tablets and prototype ubuntu-based maemo system by community going on00:28
Stskeepsso porting is a lot easier00:28
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dksaarthNice, thanks00:28
Stskeepswhat do you research in?00:28
dksaarthA couple of the guys here look at the IMS (IP multimedia subsystem) framework - sip based telecommunications framework00:29
dksaarthIm tinkering around with videoconferencing00:29
dksaarth(over the IMS)00:30
Stskeepsi had stuff working with gstreamer atleast00:30
dksaarthaah nice - we use gstreamer for our ims client00:30
dksaartha couple of N8x0's would be a nice demonstration of our work + it would get rid of the need to carry machines around to show our work off00:31
Stskeepsyeah, except when you have to deal with projectors, then you need usb2vga stuff :P00:31
Stskeepsjohnx: brilliant:)00:31
johnxit'll be chunky until we can get back to manual fb updates though00:32
Stskeepsyeah, well, we aren't viewing video :P00:32
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Stskeepsjohnx: does it actually work? and is it the tslib sui had?00:33
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johnxit's probably the same tslib, given that it's from debian00:34
johnxno modifications. I thought i needed to hack it, but that turned out to be wrong00:34
Stskeepsk - there wa a tslib at so00:35
johnxyes, same source package00:36
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johnxwait, hang on, let me check something00:36
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johnxah, his is better. hal support00:37
Stskeepsthere's a TODO for that part though?00:37
johnxthe debian changelog says "Add hal support"00:37
Stskeepsi'm recompiling osso-gnomevfs atm towards getting it to work with libgtkhtml from ubuntu00:38
Stskeepswith the new version00:38
Stskeepswithout that we can't get hildon-help, so00:38
Stskeepswhy on earth does it end up depending on selinux though, i dunno00:40
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johnxthat is pretty weird00:40
Stskeepsmost secure mobile os, ever, unintentionally00:41
Stskeepsor something00:41
Stskeepsseriously though, i've seen several packages build itself with selinux for no good reason00:41
Stskeepsand it doesn't make it better selinux is NSA's work00:42
johnxdon't like the NSA? have something to hide? :D00:42
Stskeepsthough i do admit increased security may be more relevant on a mobile device in the futre00:43
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johnxI'd really like to see sandboxing become popular on linux00:44
Stskeeps - woohoo, denmark now has nuclear weapons!00:45
johnxin a really user accessible way00:45
rwhitbydenmark has user accessible nuclear weapons?00:45
johnxactually...looks like it00:46
Stskeepsjohnx: regarding image creation, should we go with the deblet installer?00:48
Stskeepsand a repo00:48
johnxthat seems reasonable00:49
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Stskeeps"Mobile Virtualization Platform,"01:00
Stskeepsoh my.01:00
* Stskeeps sells his vmware stock (if he had any)01:01
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johnxhmm? because they're working on an ARM emulator?01:03
GAN800Stskeeps, can I run Windows on my cellphone now?01:03
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johnxuhm, are they seriously going to run a fully virtualized system on a handheld?01:06
Stskeepsi think they'd be a lot better off running L4 + linux on top really01:06
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Stskeepsand then seperate out some sandboxed services (DRM, billing, etc) and provide a communication to them01:07
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johnxwell personally, I think keeping users out of their own phones is a losing cause01:15
johnxbut there's a lot of money to be made while people think it can be done :)01:16
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Stskeepsyeah.. its a interesting balance though01:16
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* Stskeeps sighs over licenses01:21
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GAN800Stskeeps, but can I run Windows on my phone?01:25
lcukyeah! vista as well01:25
lcukisn't the oqo about small enough for that01:26
StskeepsGAN800: windows 3.11 already runs on your tablet01:26
Stskeepsokay. is apt braindamaged or something?01:26
Stskeeps Depends: libgnomevfs2-dev (>= 2.8.4-2)01:26
Stskeepsinstalled version is 2:2.16.3-1osso39mr001:27
Stskeepsand it failed without the 2: too01:27
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Stskeepsand i know 2.8.4 is lexically larger than 2.1601:28
johnxno idea here01:29
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johnxis there a matching < clause somewhere?01:29
Stskeepsnot sure.. i'm clashing with libgnomeui-dev basically01:30
* Stskeeps gives up and builds maemo gtkhtml01:32
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johnxalright, you try that and I'll give it a shot01:33
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Stskeepsbehaviour might be because libosso gnomevfs2-dev replaces/provides/conflicts libgnomevfs2-dev01:34
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Stskeepsgtkhtml is rolling, i'm off to bed01:39
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Stskeepswould be delightful if you can find the issue, coexistence is definately a major thing in this stuff :P01:40
johnxI'm grabbing all your .debs now01:41
johnxI'll see what I can do01:41
* johnx wonders if it co-exists in an API way01:41
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dmsupermanI have an n800. I don't like those silicone cases. Are there any other options that you guys know of?01:53
dmsupermanI can't find any01:53
johnxno case at all has worked well for me :)01:53
dmsupermanWell I just dropped mine01:53
johnxme too. on blacktop01:54
johnxlike 3 times01:54
dmsupermanOn cement for me01:54
dmsupermanI hate it though01:54
dmsupermanI have these deep gashes on the corner01:54
dmsupermanI want to prevent any more01:54
johnxheh...same here actually :)01:54
johnxI have some kind of case for a game system I think, might be nintendo DS or a PSP case, but I only use it when throwing my n800 on a backpack01:55
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GAN800Stskeeps, sorry, forgot the smilies. :P01:56
dmsupermanThis is saddening01:56
dmsupermanThose silicone ones suck though01:56
johnxso you're looking for a case that lets you use it while it while inside the case?01:56
lcukdmsuperman, i keep my 810 in a wooden case01:57
johnxI think there was some leather one that folded01:57
lcukget yourself a router and measure up01:57
dmsupermanIt needs to be only slightly larger than the n800 so it can still fit in my pocket01:57
dmsupermanEven that sock thing that comes with it01:57
dmsupermanI'd like something like that01:57
dmsupermanBut the n800 slides out too easily01:58
lcuki have an old pda case that i keep in my pocket01:58
lcukthe 810 fits nice n snug :)01:58
dmsupermanAnybody have one of those silicone cases?01:59
dmsupermanPerhaps if it's easy to slip out of01:59
dmsupermanThen it'd be fine01:59
dmsupermanI don't use the speakers all that often01:59
johnxwait, so you want something you can just store it in? or a case that lets you use the device while it's in the case?01:59
dmsupermanWell, I'd like something that leaves the entire front face open02:00
dmsupermanBut if not, at least the screen and stylux02:00
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dmsupermanSo I'm thinking if teh n800 can slip out of that silicone case easily02:00
cars___dmsuperman, I'm using an Otterbox for mine -- very safe, but it's not exactly pocket-friendly :)02:03
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johnxmine is pretty similar to this:,ProductID,3880,,.htm02:06
johnxyou can just unzip it and use the tablet normally02:06
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solcajohnx: the weird thing is that afaik you just open the watchdog device and keep writing every 10s03:29
johnxstill having problems with it?03:29
solcasorry I hit up-return and post the last entry :)03:29
johnxno prob03:30
solcajohnx: I have now maemo-r installed from the tarball, how I can installed the new updates?03:32
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johnxright now it's kind of a piece-by-piece method03:32
solcaand where are you posting the new stuff?03:33
johnxpackages compiled by stskeeps are at: and packages compiled by me are at
johnxwe're compiling from with as few changes as possible03:33
johnxwhich reminds me, I need to get hacking on osso-gnomevfs packaging03:34
solcaexcellent, will try those packages03:35
johnxit's not enough to have a desktop yet, just a good start at building more packages03:35
solcasure, X with a terminal is enough for me right now to test a working kernel03:36
johnxThere might not be a keymap in X yet03:37
johnxyou could set it up to give you a console over usb ethernet though03:37
johnxs/console/telnet session/03:38
infobotjohnx meant: you could set it up to give you a telnet session over usb ethernet though03:38
solcaright now I'm at the console via the deblet rescue menu03:38
solcawhich is a good thing03:38
johnxah, I thought you were booting directly to rootfs03:38
solcaI haven't tried, I boot via bootmenu and then pressing the home key to get the rescue menu03:39
solcaand then the console03:40
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* Mousey researches canola+daap03:40
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* Mousey comes up empty03:44
* Mousey cries03:44
johnxwow...that was some fast research03:44
Mouseyi'm that good03:44
johnxcanola+upnp works well enough, but it doesn't cope that well with a couple thousand songs03:45
MouseyCanola doesn't support any Daap Authentication Method.03:45
Mouseyas of 12-13-200603:45
Mouseyyah, i've used it with mythtv03:45
Mouseyworks really well03:45
Mouseydaap would be the nice03:45
Mouseystupid self correcting spelling03:45
johnxwhat uses daap again? is it itunes?03:46
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Mouseyand those little music server thigns you plug in03:54
johnxI wouldn't buy a music server unless it ran Linux :)03:54
johnxor maybe os x03:55
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johnxerr...well, that's not working either :/04:08
johnxit'll be back eventually I'm sure04:09
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solcajohnx: are you compiling source packages from or from mojo?04:20
solcaI understood that all packages was from mojo (ubuntu) and just some parts from maemo...04:21
johnxwell the base distribution is from mojo. Then the maemo GUI is pulled from stage.maemo.org04:23
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solcathe mojo packages are recompiled or just installed directly from mojo to your tarball?04:24
johnxit's just a tarball of a mojo debootstrap04:24
johnxwith a couple things added to make it bootable04:24
solcajohnx: thx, now if I understand correctly the boot sequence: kernel->initfs->linuxrc->mmcblk0p2->linuxrc->/sbin/init ?04:27
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johnxseems about right04:27
solcaok thx!04:27
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solcaany ideas what state 'MALF' means?04:54
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darkblue_Bhello - I have been away from this for a couple of months, forgive my dense questions.. I want to do a demo tomorrow with an http server of sone kind.. lighthttpd ?07:01
johnxlighthttpd is good07:02
johnxare you just serving static web pages?07:02
darkblue_Bhmm, I have some dojo toolkit pages07:04
darkblue_Bso its 'ajax'07:04
darkblue_Bthey are not php, if thats what you are asking07:05
darkblue_BI'm trying to remember how this works.. looking for my OS version07:05
darkblue_Bits fairly recently updated07:05
darkblue_BI am logged in as root07:05
darkblue_BI have some python scripts .. thats already installed and runninng07:05
darkblue_Bthe web pages call them on the python http server, on a seperate port07:06
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johnxI think apache2 and nginx are available as well if that doesn't end up working for you, but I've got to head out for now07:10
johnxgood luck07:10
darkblue_Bjohnx: I dont think I see a lighthttpd in the app mgr list on the N800.. which repo do I go it?07:10
darkblue_B.. to find it?07:11
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darkblue_Blooking, thx07:14
darkblue_BI use sqlite3 from python, btw07:16
darkblue_Bto do this work07:16
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darkblue_Bjohnx: geez, that was easy.. it worked07:20
darkblue_Bphp there, even though I dont need it07:20
darkblue_Bnow to figure out where everything landed07:21
johnxdpkg -L packagename07:21
johnxglad it worked :)07:21
* johnx heads out the door07:21
darkblue_Bthank you07:22
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Sagehi, is it possible to install multiple packages (that do not have dependencies to each other) with single .install file on maemo 4.x?09:19
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RST38hmoo, XFade10:12
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SargunWait, can you upgrade the internal storage on the N810?10:37
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aquatixSargun: not that i'm aware10:39
aquatixmaybe with some soldering10:40
X-FadeNo, forget about that.10:40
X-FadeUnless you are good at bga unsoldering and want to remove your cpu ;)10:41
SageBecause nobody said anything, I guess that nobody knows answer to my question? :)10:42
X-FadeSage, I don't think so.10:43
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X-FadeI think you need to create a meta package for that.10:43
Sargunso I heard on ITT that some people have some sort of real time traffic for way finder map10:44
SageSo there is no ways to have single file install for multiple packages located in different repos.10:44
SargunI purchased a wayfinder license10:44
Sargunhow do I get real time traffic working?10:44
X-FadeSage: No. But multiple packages in different repos is about the worst thing you can have.10:45
X-FadeAs that sets you up for dependency hell.10:47
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SageIs it possible to create a meta package, e.g., meta.deb what installs also dependencies from repositories when installed? Or does that meta.deb also have to be in some repository?10:56
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X-FadeSage: Or you just upload all your packages to Extras and have non of these issues?10:58
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inzSage, yes, the meta package must be in a repository10:59
SageSo it is as hard as I though :)11:02
Sagethx, for the informations.11:02
inzSage, just put the package in a/the repository11:03
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Meizirkki_n810M-R team?: does xorg packages in work. Touchscreen?12:50
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camel_liuhi, all12:56
camel_liuI'm trying to install gst-plugins-bad in scratchbox.12:56
camel_liuI met a problem12:57
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camel_liuI installed swfdec lib, but gst-plugins-bad's configure seems to be unaware of the installed swfdec lib. When configure finish, the plugins' list of will not be built always includes swfdec.12:59
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camel_liuthe same with timidity, but different with wildmidi. When I installed wildmidi lib, it will be move to the list of 'will be built'.13:01
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JaffaMorning, all13:09
Meizirkki_n810good evening ;)13:10
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johnxMeizirkki_n810, those should work, yes13:55
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StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: go for the ones johnx has14:05
Stskeepsi think14:05
johnxStskeeps, I didn't even see those ones built for m-r when I built mine14:05
johnxI'm sure mine aren't any better and possibly worse14:05
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Stskeepswell yours definately work;)14:07
RST38hA survey has shown that almost half of Brits haven't got a clue how to use the possessive apostrophe correctly, with the most common lapse being the inability to "punctuate a possessive plural"14:07
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johnxStskeeps, random thought about osso-gnomevfs and "Provides: "14:32
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johnxtrying to find out if "Provides: foo" provides a specific version or just foo in general14:35
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lcukRST38h, where's this survey result page. it sounds' like fun14:35
StsN800johmx, thats a good question14:37
lcukStskeeps, how much faster is beagle vs n8x0?14:37
johnxyeah, looks like provides: doesn't provide a specific version14:37
StsN800omap3 vs omap2, 600mhz i think14:37
lcuki dont mean mhz, i mean usable speed differences - if it feasible to run office etc natively without a 5 minute startup time and stuff14:38
StsN800lcuk, no clue14:38
StsN800didnt get a screen on it yet14:38
johnxso the other question about osso-gnomevfs2 is: Is it really a drop in replacement for the real gnomevfs?14:39
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StsN800it does provide it14:40
StsN800and its based upon afaik14:40
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StsN800and has soname libgnomevfs14:41
johnxso we'll assume it's a drop in replacement unless something fails :)14:41
StsN800maybe a package rename is in order14:41
StsN800so logic starts working again14:42
johnxyeah, that's pretty icky, but I guess it's the same situation as gtk :/14:42
StsN800think we should ask sui, he might have a better solution14:44
johnxwe also might want to ask Nokia. osso-gnomevfs is a little old. they probably are planning to up to at least the current version for fremantle14:44
StsN800that too14:45
RST38hlcuk: No idea, but I guess the rule of thumb is to check the BBC =)14:47
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StsN800johnx, guess we can leave the problem for now and continue towards hildon14:50
StsN800since we.have it microdocumented we can return to it14:50
johnxfair enough. any suggestion for a compile to start before I head off to bed?14:51
johnxIt's requests hour :)14:51
lcukcould you compile me a list of open access bank account numbers with passwords?14:52
StsN800fix g_gnuc_function in gtkhtml to g_strfunc and compile i guess14:52
StsN800matter of search and replace14:52
lcukRST38h, the bbc is not better14:52
johnxthink I'll manage :)14:53
StsN800im in classes and work the next 8 hours so14:53
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* RST38h doesn't get it by the way. Why is it so hard for native speakers?15:18
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user__buongiorno a tutti15:21
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proto1anyone tried synergy on  the n810?15:22
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Meizirkki_n810Johnx: You got Xorg working? Do i have to mess with xorg.conf or orher files?15:24
johnxnope, just download the xorg.conf from
johnxyou need to run ts_calibrate before that though15:25
Meizirkki_n810can i copy pointercal from maemo?15:26
johnxyeah, should work15:26
Meizirkki_n810ok, thanks :)15:26
StsN800and the ln -s fb0 fb15:27
* johnx <3 distcc15:28
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johnxheh...everyone is is using their tablet. I'm just compiling on mine :)15:29
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Meizirkki_n810i have compiled once15:34
Meizirkki_n810with my tablet15:34
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StsN800we should make omapfb use /dev/fb0 instead of /dev/fb15:34
Meizirkki_n810i compiled svn version of tablet-hw-n8x0-nonfree15:34
StsN800hehe. and its just a script15:35
Meizirkki_n810yep, and my compilation did not work ;J15:35
Meizirkki_n810no access to nokia files15:35
Meizirkki_n810when i just force-arch it, it works15:36
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Meizirkki_n810it looks like xorg needs at least xfonts-base15:37
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Meizirkki_n810but it is not dependanchy15:39
Meizirkki_n810need to install manually15:39
Meizirkki_n810anyway, now i finally got working ubuntu15:39
Meizirkki_n810no more segmentation faults15:40
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Meizirkki_n810if i install gdm does it start automatically when xorg starts15:44
Meizirkki_n810or when i run startx?15:45
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johnxit will run when you do: /etc/init.d/gdm start15:48
aquatixon debian that's done automagically15:48
Meizirkki_n810does that start xorg too?15:49
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johnxMeizirkki_n810, yes15:50
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johnxgtkhtml wants gnomeui...15:55
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Stskeepsgtkhtml from trunk says especially that it does not have gnome dependancies16:01
johnxyeah, I'll try --without16:02
johnxafter all it's exactly the same gtkhtml as in diablo16:02
RST38hgtkhtml SHOULD NOT require gnome UI16:05
RST38hit's a widget after all16:06
Stskeepsjohnx: where on earth does it want it?16:06
Stskeepsin source?16:06
johnxit's configure script wants it, I'll try --without-gnomeui in a second, but I'm fighting with glade ATM16:07
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Stskeepsweird though, didn't get that part16:11
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Stskeepsheh, i discovered something funny about iphones today.. people use the shiny backside to use as mirror instead16:16
johnxglade wins round one. I'm going to sleep. :P16:16
NaviSleep is for the weak16:17
Stskeepsnini johnx16:17
johnxNavi, yeah, usually that's my line. :P16:17
johnx'night all16:17
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prez00ever since latest update, my n800's email usinh imap stops updating, my browser gets stuck with an updating window and machine reboots randomly..16:20
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Stskeepsprez00: you're running into Modest, it sounds like :P16:22
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Stskeepsnot really, i have same issue16:23
disco_stuprez00: hola nicaraguense16:24
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Meizirkkixservder did not start16:25
prez00right now i can't even open browser... i get an updating window in upper right corner...16:25
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RST38hSts: you do understand that a real man (tm) never uses a mirror except for shaving16:25
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StskeepsRST38h: this was a woman, too16:25
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RST38hSts: Ah16:25
prez00i killed browser and tried to restart, nothin16:25
StskeepsMeizirkki: try add Nokia-N810-23-14 to your /etc/hosts maybe16:26
MeizirkkiThere is nothing in /etc/hosts!16:27
mgedminthere should be16:27
Stskeepsthat's probably an issue too16:27
Meizirkkicopy from maemo?16:27
Stskeeps127.0.0.1       localhost16:27
mgedmin127.0.0.1 Nokia-N810-23-14 localhost16:27
mgedminis the default content of that file16:27
Stskeepswhat mgedmin said16:27
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disco_stuif i create a swap partition in my mmc1, will maemo use it ?16:30
Meizirkkiyou can activate it by running "swapon <patrition>16:30
Stskeepsif you insert a swapon somewhere in your init script16:30
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disco_stuthen i wont be able to hotswap it, right ?16:31
Stskeepsyou'll have very interesting experiences if you do, yeah16:32
disco_stuand it will be added to the virtual memory already created in the control panel ?16:32
disco_stuwill it*16:32
disco_stulets check16:33
disco_stuwhat is the schema of partitions, here ?16:33
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MeizirkkiXll won't work16:34
disco_stuthe swap is added16:34
Meizirkkii'll try johnx:s compilation16:35
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StskeepsMeizirkki: odd, may just be startx messing up though16:36
Stskeepstry X & ; export DISPLAY=:0; xmessage hi16:36
Stskeeps(with x11-utils on)16:36
Stskeepsthis in bootable or chroot?16:36
Meizirkkitrying to start it from telnet16:36
Stskeepsyou have pressed the three enters so the system keeps booting16:37
Meizirkkiit shows this : xf86PciVideoInfo is not set16:38
Stskeepsnormal, and fine, i believe16:39
Stskeepsn800's don't have pci16:39
MeizirkkiThe johnx:s xorg.conf seems to not be applied :P16:40
Stskeepsput it in /etc/X11?16:40
Meizirkkii downloaded it with wget when i was in that directory16:41
Meizirkkiand of cource wget named it xorg.conf.116:41
X-FadeDuh, AWACS plane flying low over my house..16:44
X-FadeThat bastard is loud.16:44
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aquatixX-Fade: they found you?16:48
X-FadeDon't take my tablet.. Please.....16:48
aquatixexpect helicopters next16:49
X-Fadeaquatix: I'm used to those. Apache base 10km from my house ;)16:49
X-FadeAnd chinooks too.16:49
disco_stuX-Fade: i envy you16:49
* aquatix doesn't16:50
* aquatix likes some rest when at home16:50
X-Fadedisco_stu: Chinooks have a habit of dropping out of the sky..16:50
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* aquatix sees enough helicopters at work16:50
disco_stuaquatix: where u work ?16:50
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aquatixdisco_stu: dutch naval base16:51
disco_stuwow.. awsome16:52
infobotdisco_stu meant: wow.. awesome16:52
X-Fadeaquatix: DH?16:52
aquatixsounds more interesting then it is ;)16:52
aquatixX-Fade: yeah16:52
X-Fadeaquatix: Not many other options ;)16:53 has a naval fleet? :P houseboats? :P16:53
aquatixX-Fade: ;)16:53
aquatixStskeeps: ghehehe16:53
* aquatix looks at a submarine in the drydock16:54
disco_stuaquatix: i u take a pic of some choppers you could share them with me16:54
* aquatix isn't allowed to16:54
disco_stunoone should see ya16:54
aquatixstill :)16:54
aquatixbesides, my n810 makes shitty pics ;)16:55
Stskeeps"where's your tablet today?" "sitting in .nl's first nuclear bomb"16:55
aquatix`oh, it's powering our new submarine. why?'16:56
MeizirkkiXorg still won't start: 0: /usr/bin/X11/X(xf86SigHandler+0x70) [0x7dcbc]16:57
Stskeepsln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb16:57
* Stskeeps heads home16:59
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Meizirkkii done it before my first try, but noe i did it again and worked16:59
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MeizirkkiTouchscreen and D-pad does not work :(17:00
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Meizirkkii need to do ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb every time i reboot?17:06
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hahlobiti have noticed too that tablets doesn't like rebooting.17:09
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Meizirkkiubuntu-mobile runs directly :)17:11
hahlobitmaybe they are  evil cause permissions goes 666 when reboot :)17:11
Meizirkkiat least somehow17:11
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MeizirkkiIs there some script that runs before xorg, wehre i could add "ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb"17:19
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StskeepsMeizirkki: pic?17:45
Stskeepsit actually works?17:45
MeizirkkiI can see that top-panel17:46
Meizirkkilike in chroot17:46
Stskeepswoo, screenshot is in order i guess :P17:46
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Meizirkkitrying to make mobile-basic-flash work17:46
Stskeepsapt-get install imagemagick, import -window root img.png i think17:46
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Meizirkkiadobe-flash player gives me /usr/lib/browser/plugins/libflashplayer.so17:47
Meizirkkidoes it work?17:47
Meizirkkiln -s it to xulrunners plugins17:47
Stskeepsdo you have the gtk version we have?17:47
Meizirkkii tried, but it seemed to not work17:48
Meizirkkijust basic mojos thing17:48
Stskeepselse you need the thing17:48
Meizirkkideblet-flashplayer did not give me that17:48
Stskeepsi know17:48
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Stskeepsbasically libflashplayer requires some things that are only in the maemo GTK, afaik, and some other libs, and is a hack that makes it think it is in that environment17:49
Stskeepsbut its kinda a difficult hack17:51
Stskeepsi would love a screenshot of U-m running, even just with top bar17:51
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Meizirkkiso, installing your gtk would help?17:51
Stskeepspossibly, yeah17:51
Meizirkkigonna try... :)17:52
Stskeepsthere was some other thing too but i cant recall off hand17:52
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ron1nhey guys17:53
ron1ndo we know anything about a 'next gen' or 9 series nokia internet tablet?, I'm holding out on buying one17:53
Stskeepsnot a certain date but we do know some things about it17:54
Meizirkki_n810Stskeeps: sorry, there is one thing wrong in my DUN guide17:54
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StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: mm?17:54
ron1nStskeeps, thanks17:54
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Meizirkki_n810in /etc/ppp/peers/mobile file17:54
Stskeepsron1n: but not anything like form factor, look, etc17:54
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: lemme just add you to the user file17:54
ron1nI bought a 770 a few years ago, and then nokia goes and comes out with the n800 -_-17:54
mgedminron1n: expect one no sooner than middle of next year17:55
mgedminbut it'll have 3d17:56
ron1nmgedmin, awesome17:56
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RST38hAnd it will run WinXP^H^H^Hsorry17:59
GAN800lcuk, 3x faster. More if we get more RAM.17:59
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X-FadeGAN800: Not counting the multimedia extensions/accelerators, which would help more.18:00
MeizirkkiHow can i edit deblet wiki after logging in?18:00
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MeizirkkiFound it :)18:01
GAN800X-Fade, sure, specific cases like with NEON and video will be more insane.18:02
* Jaffa bingles mvo with some magic fairy dust18:02
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X-FadeGAN800: :)18:03
X-FadeGAN800: Will fill in the upcoming days of course..18:03
X-FadeBut that will probably give you a big boost.18:03
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GAN800X-Fade, what's the modifier?18:04
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X-FadeGAN800: sqrt(edits > 50 chars)18:04
Stskeepswe should have a line count from irc counting in karma too18:05
JaffaX-Fade: btw, just looking at the URL reminded me: I keep thinking there should be a "by total" in the sort list18:05
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Stskeepsi'd definately be a karma whore then18:06
JaffaStskeeps: it's been discussed. I'm in favour of it, but I dunno if anyone's working on it.18:06
X-FadeJaffa: Which point to /profile/list/ ?18:06
Stskeepsyeah, but difficult to use for anything really18:06
w00t_Stskeeps: you're always a karma whore18:07
JaffaX-Fade: correct18:07
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JaffaX-Fade: you can do it from the breadcrumb trail, but I always double-take18:07
X-FadeYeah, let's see if I can do that.18:08
X-FadeIt currenly uses a list of plugins. But the total list is no plugin. So..18:08
Stskeepsw00t_: you mean you've always been18:08
X-FadeSome hacking is probably needed..18:08
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StskeepsGAN800: do you get absolutely spammed by my reconstructedPOC stuff? not sure how much other people see18:18
GAN800On Jaiku you mean?18:23
GAN800X-Fade, so I have about 900 'useful' edits out of 1200, which will net me 30 karma.18:23
Stskeepswas worried cos there was a lot of activity on the channel :)18:23
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StskeepsMeizirkki: any luck with screenshots?18:24
X-FadeGAN800: I see 1143 edits for you now.18:25
GAN800X-Fade, that are ove 50 chars?18:25
X-FadeGAN800: Yes.18:25
Meizirkki_n810i'll first try to get flash working18:25
Meizirkki_n810with maemos gtk:s18:25
X-FadeGAN800: Ah and modifier is * 2, btw.18:26
X-FadeGAN800: So that will be 66 karma for you..18:26
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: alright18:26
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X-FadeBut we can discuss the weight ofcourse...18:27
GAN800Leave it for when we overhaul all of the modifiers18:27
GAN800I'll poke at dneary's proposal later this weel.18:28
X-FadeYeah, that will be corrected probably..18:28
bergieGAN800: Hirvinen is working on that right now18:28
infobotGAN800 meant: I'll poke at dneary's proposal later this week.18:28
bergieso the earlier you can poke it the better18:28
lcukthanks GAN800 :)18:28
X-Fadebergie: I think there need to be discussions first, so don't expect quick answers.18:28
bergieX-Fade: oh... I though the points there were the things to implement this Sprint18:29
X-Fadebergie: No?18:30
GAN800bergie, that's only dneary's list.18:30
X-Fadebergie: I see karma for applications and detaching thumbs down from karma.18:30
X-Fade is still under discussion.18:31
GAN800Should probably be pushed to a task18:32
X-FadeYes, I think so.18:32
bergieok... dneary was talking about "detaching thumbs down" and the proposed improvements at same time, so I though they were both to be implemented now18:34
GAN800#3767 is valid and can be fixed18:35
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GAN800But all the modifiers still need to be discussed.18:35
crashanddieGAN800: hey, can you give me some advice?18:36
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bergiewell, we can play with the modifiers... the recount is only 48h anyway18:36
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GAN800crashanddie, depends. :P18:37
crashanddieAnyone know of a embedded device (possibly n800 or n810, but other options would be nice) that plays nicely with RFID readers? I saw the video on YouTube about the n800 reading tags, but the n800 is quite hard to get by these days (in large quantities)18:37
crashanddieThis would be for a medium sized projet (between 30 and 100 units)18:37
lardmanqwerty12: you about?18:37
Hirvinena question about proposed karma improvements: from the wiki page: "Discussion: Modify discussion points to be scored as 2 * sqrt(# posts)" <- should that be (sign of good_posts + bad_post_modifier * bad_posts) 2 * sqrt(abs(good_posts - bad_post_modifier * bad_posts)) ?18:37
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qwerty12lardman, yeah18:37
crashanddieHey Q, wassup bro?18:38
lardmanqwerty12: which SDK version were you using to compile Qalculate! ?18:38
GAN800Find a reader that works reliably with Linux and go from there?18:38
qwerty12wag1 crashanddie, I'm good here, how about you? :)18:38
X-FadeHirvinen: thumbs down should not give negative karma. That is all for now..18:38
qwerty12lardman, 4.1.1 iirc18:38
GAN800WinMob seems like it might require less work to get going, though.18:38
crashanddieqwerty12: good good, job and everything :)18:38
qwerty12heh, good to hear :)18:38
HirvinenX-Fade: ok18:39
X-FadeHirvinen: Other things need discussion first. And probably pretty heated ;)18:39
crashanddieGAN800: well, it's for a student project, and the students are mostly trained to work with Linux (my old school, one of the last bastions of free developers)18:39
crashanddieso when I heard about it, I thought about the n800 immediately... Though it's for a university, so I'd like to think in terms of costs as well (and well, a uni has a bit of problems ordering 30 individual units on ebay)18:40
HirvinenX-Fade: Are there parts of karma changes that are agreed upon?18:40
X-FadeHirvinen: No, only this one and that we need karma for applications.18:41
bergieHirvinen: only the one in that bug entry18:41
lardmanI still think bad posts/bad blogs should reduce that section to 0 (and no lower)18:41
X-Fadelardman: Yes, that seems fair.18:42
GAN800lardman, per-post zero, not per-section18:42
X-FadeWell, yeah if you mess up one time you don't need to be punished too much.18:42
X-FadeBut if you mess up every time, you will stay at zero.18:43
GAN800thoughtfix shouldn't not receive any karma for his timeline and interview posts just because people really hate some of his iPhone and UI posts.18:43
lardmanGAN800: per section18:43
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GAN800The problem is 'bad' doesn't mean anything18:43
mikkov_are those karma lists sorted by comments, favourites etc supposed to work?18:43
lardmanin which case it doesn't disuade people from posting rubbish18:44
bergiemikkov_: yep... but unfortunately sometimes the DB server timeouts18:44
GAN800It's often more about the groupthink not agreeing with your opinions18:44
X-Fademikkov_: Try again in the morning :D18:44
GAN800lardman, clearly if it really becomes an issue it can be addressed to a poster directly.18:45
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X-Fadelardman: We can always remove a bad author from the planet. Which will do the same..18:46
lardmanyeah, that's not quite what I mean though18:46
lardmanif people repeatedly post off topic, their overall blogging karma should be reduced18:46
GAN800thumbers are too unfair18:46
lardmanyes, but I don't think people have abused them have they?18:46
GAN800But what if they just say interesting, on-topic, but unpopular things?18:47
GAN800Sure they have18:47
GAN800Hell, I have. ;)18:47
* lardman still wonders how his ~220 ml posts produce 38 karmas18:47
X-FadeMaybe we need a top 10 thumb downers ;)18:47
X-FadePublicly visible..18:47
lardmanlist people who give a thumb either way18:47
X-Fadelardman: -community isn't counted yet.18:47
lardmanX-Fade: yeah, that's not many of my posts though, -dev's the main one18:48
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X-FadeYeah, but the forum import is broken atm.18:48
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X-FadeIt is not parsing all mails correctly.18:48
lardmanfair enough18:48
X-FadeSo your account isn't attachted to all of them..18:49
lardmandon't worry :)18:49
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X-FadeOne day...18:49
Jaffalardman: as long as it's sorted before cheap N900s start getting given out, eh? ;-)18:49
lardmanJaffa: I'm not too concerned about that either, just that it should be right if it's being done18:50
X-FadeJaffa: I think lardman will be recognized without karma too..18:50
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JaffaX-Fade: one would hope18:50
X-Fadebbl, dinner.18:50
lardmanDon't worry, with all my complaining about karma I';m sure I will be, probably in the wrong direction mind you! ;)18:51
jagernothi im working on a synth (some of u know)..i use esound for sound generation and gdk for ui... result here:
jagernotthe trouble is i cant update the ui as i play the instrument18:52
jagernoti can but audio drops18:53
Stskeepsthreading maybe?18:53
jagernoti am threading the audio18:53
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lardmanargh, what do I add to sources.list to add the Extras repo?19:01
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lardmanas you can see, /me would have to do quite a bit of debian packaging learning ;)19:01
qwerty12lardman, :P19:02
Meizirkki_n810Damn, pellet truck arrived... tookna lot of time...19:02
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qwerty12lardman, I have to remind myself to update the Build-Depends everytime I add a library...19:02
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lardmanI just tried to update my diablo SDK install and it's pulling from maemo4.1, rather than maemo4.1.119:05
lardmanis that expected behaviour?19:05
Meizirkki_n810Stskeeps: i screwed my hasty agn19:05
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: hehe.. happens19:06
RST38hlardman: may depend on your linux19:06
Meizirkki_n810i tried to install all packages on /stskeeps and now apt-get naggs about missing depends, and apt-get install -f wants to remove evrything i have installed so far19:07
RST38hdo check if the repo for your linux flavor contains 4.1.119:07
lardmanyep it does19:08
Meizirkki_n810Stskeeps: when i boot directly to ubuntu mobile it looks pixel-to-pixel same than the screenshot i took when using u-m first time in chroot19:10
RST38htry apt-get update then apt-get upgrade and see what keeps it back19:10
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: good19:10
Meizirkki_n810anything i tell apt-get to do, returns with incorrect depends messages19:11
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: feel free to link scrshot on the jaiku saying this ran like this19:11
lardmanRST38h: I did that, nothing kept it back, it just doesn't decide to upgrade the url19:11
lardmanRST38h: will try again after my build has finished19:12
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: apt-get -f install might help19:12
RST38hmaybe a typo in the sources file?19:12
Meizirkki_n810apt-get -f install suggests removing all these u-m and other packages...19:12
lardmanno, that's what I mean, it lists maemo4.1 in the sources file19:12
lardmanI'd expected it to change that to maemo4.1.119:12
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: yeah.. i suspected the maemo gtk might blow some things up19:13
RST38hmaybe its just not that smart?:)19:13
lardmanRST38h: yeah, will have to look at how to upgrade in the correct way eventually :)19:13
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: give me a pastebin of the errors about apt-geti nstall something19:14
Meizirkki_n810Stskeeps: V19:16
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Meizirkki_n810I'll try apt-get -f install even if it removes something19:18
lardmanqwerty12: you have any issues compiling libgmp?19:18
qwerty12lardman, I can't remember properly but I think I did19:19
lardmanrubbish C++19:19
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: thanks, please edit it on the wiki and make a note in jaiku about this19:20
Stskeepssince it's an instance of maemo gtk messing up things19:20
Stskeeps(put the exact error somewhere and link to it)19:21
Stskeepspastebins arent forever so19:21
lardmanqwerty12: apparently an issue which has been fixed in GCC4.x.x19:21
qwerty12lardman, hrm, i'll set up an cs2008 toolchain later19:22
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Meizirkki_n810Stskeeps: these confilicts might be nto about meno GTK, maybe i got errors because i tried to install all packages you have upladed so far, and some of them have missing dependacies?19:29
Meizirkki_n810*might to be about maemo...19:29
Meizirkki_n810so much typos =P19:30
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StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: one of the reasons is probably osso-gnomevfs219:31
Stskeepsthat blows up UM definately19:31
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Stskeepsstick with the maemo gtk for now instead of everything else19:31
Stskeepsyou would get a better result19:31
lardmanqwerty12: were you using the SDK+ sdk by chance?19:32
lardmanqwerty12: iirc that has gcc 4.x.x on it19:32
qwerty12lardman, never...19:32
lardmanoh, ok19:32
derfGetting the cs2008 toolchain up and running wasn't hard.19:33
derfIt took up 2GB of disk space for no apparent reason, but it wasn't hard.19:33
lardmanis that GCC 4?19:33
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: but in any degree any problems you run into are important to microdocument, cos we will definately deal with them later19:33
lardmanah, ok19:33
derfYou need it for the qrcode stuff.19:33
derfgcc 3.x has way too many compiler bugs.19:33
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derfActually, I guess I used cs2007q3, which was also gcc 4.x.19:35
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lardmanI may as well use OE to build it then really19:36
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lardmanhmm, or not, doesn't appear to be in the metadata19:42
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GAN800Can anybody with some language experience look over the list of categories and start generating l10n?19:48
GAN800I have a feeling Nokia may take forever to do the translation.19:48
lardmanstick them on the wiki and let people suggest I suggest19:48
MeizirkkiStskeeps: done19:49
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lardmanGAN800: can we add an extra section to the wiki page with a table of names + column for each translation?19:52
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Jaffalardman: how's your mediawiki syntax? ;-)19:56
JaffaBah, going to be another night tonight whe re I don't get home until gone 11pm19:57
lardmannot very good, and I don';t have the email to hand either19:57
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lardmanJaffa: I've just had two nights where I did get home, but just kept on going till I went to bed19:57
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* Jaffa better damn well get a payrise (hmm) and a promotion (yay, more perks) on Saturday... or else19:58
gomiam(Southpark mode) "or else?" Jaffa: "Exactly!"19:59
lardmanis that where "perk"=="working late more often"? ;)20:00
gomiamlardman: that depends on your home situation :-)20:01
MeizirkkiStskeeps: are you going to switch to armv6el release soon? =)20:02
lardmangomiam: :)20:02
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StskeepsMeizirkki: when i get the installer and repo going, yeah20:03
Stskeepsbut the issue is that i cross-compile on a qemu that doesnt seem to like vfp, oddly enough20:03
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GAN800lardman, the table's on the wiki.20:03
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lardmanStskeeps: or have you passed an -mcpu flag too?20:04
lardmanGAN800: ok20:05
Stskeepslardman: debootstrap died so :P20:05
GAN800Jaffa, I suspect we'll want an English l10n before any others.20:05
Stskeepswasn't really much to do to get a rootstrap20:05
Stskeepsto chroot into20:05
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ron1nanyone try to get armedslack on an internet tablet?20:07
lardmanGAN800: so you ok with my adding a table with multiple rows to that page then? (assuming I can work out how of course...)20:08
Stskeepsron1n: there was a blog of some guy going insane over it..20:08
Stskeepsor was that gentoo..20:08
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Stskeepsron1n: think most active alternative OS'es are mamona, deblet, and this strange thing we're doing in here20:11
GAN800Stskeeps, Dr. Frankenstein20:11
ron1nStskeeps, thanks20:11
StskeepsGAN800: Maemo "Frankenstein"20:11
Stskeepsi like that20:11
Stskeeps.. but i'm more of a dr jekyll and mr hyde really20:12
MeizirkkiStskeeps: where can i get
GAN800Can somebody provide a quick translation for that table?20:13
Jaffalardman: Company car or car allowance.20:14
lardmanright, I added columns20:14
lardmanJaffa: ah, not so bad then20:14
* Jaffa has his eye on a nice shiny new fast VW Scirocco.20:14
lardmanAston Martin?20:14
StskeepsProgramming and not Development? :P20:14
JaffaGAN800: I think I've been persuaded of "Sound & Video" for user/multimedia.20:15
lardmanDevelopment has many menaings20:15
* lardman is happy with Multimedia, it's well known20:15
Jaffalardman: Fair enough. I'm equally happy with either.20:15
GAN800Jaffa, change it if you want. ;)20:15
JaffaGAN800: was trying to build consensus ;)20:15
* GAN800 has no opinion20:15
Stskeepsand Desktop is ambigious, what does it cover?20:16
Stskeepsit would be easier to translate if the justifications for the name was there20:16
* Jaffa is ambivalent. And lardman is pro "Multimedia". So I'm fine.20:16
JaffaStskeeps: scroll up about 400 px ;-p20:16
lardmanStskeeps: stuff to go on the desktop - applets20:16
GAN800Desktop is applets20:16
GAN800Interestingly Apple just has 'Music'20:17
GAN800and just 'Navigation' for the location stuff.20:17
* Stskeeps dislikes the "desktop" metafor for a tablet home screen for some reason, but that's a personal 20:18
lardmanGAN800: do you want to reply to Marius' email to ask people to add their translations here? If I reply I'll lose the threading as I don't have the original here20:18
* GAN800 pulls up gmail20:18
* lardman wonders who will do the All and Other translations?20:19
Stskeepswhy user/development and then Programming?20:19
Stskeepsthat's slightly confusing :P20:19
lardmanStskeeps: just 'cos20:19
lardmanStskeeps: you'll never see the user/development unless you develop; if you're an end user it's ambigous20:20
GAN800Packagers know what 'development' is20:20
lardmangetting a company car?20:20
ron1nwhy do debian packages from ARM have arm in the package name, and deblet packages have armel in the package name?20:21
Stskeepsron1n: debian has armel too20:21
Stskeeps'arm' is getting taken out the back and shot eventually afaik20:21
ron1nStskeeps, is armel significantly different from arm?20:22
StskeepsABI-wise afaik20:22
Stskeepsgotta finish this translation first20:22
ron1nlardman, thanks20:23
Meizirkkironln: arm packages in debian repos are for armv3 and they don't work on tablets20:23
ron1nI'm really taking intrest in getting uladulteraded slackware (armedslack as I hear is) on a tablet20:24
lardmanthey used to work on the 770 though before the abi change20:24
ron1nMeizirkki, I see20:24
ron1nlardman, I remember that from when I still had my 770, thats why I'm a bit confused20:24
lardmanyeah, have a read of that url, should explain it all - eabi is far better for all except keeping compatible20:25
ron1nthe TI omap series is just the processor that is used with the eabi arch, correct?20:25
lardmanespecially good for the n8x0 as it moved to vfp as default fp format, away from the awful fpa20:25
* Stskeeps contributes a danish translation for sections20:25
Stskeepseven though they probably need verification20:26
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lardmanron1n: yes, it could run the old abi20:26
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lardmanStskeeps: cool, thanks20:26
ron1nso eabi is the new evolution in arm, got it20:27
ron1nI just need to see if armedslack is eabi ready20:27
* lardman heads to grab a beer while cln compiles....20:27
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GAN800lardman, replied.20:28
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Stskeepsron1n: if you want to get it running on tablet, use the deblet boot basics and friends scripts, they're all open source and in svn on deblet home page20:30
Stskeepswill save you a lot of time and headache20:30
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Stskeepsbut, you will probably run into same problem as everyone else - power usage20:31
rafiksgot error installing deblet installer20:31
Stskeepsnot impossible20:31
Stskeepsbut which?20:31
rafiksunable to installs20:31
Stskeepsthat's a bit vague :P20:32
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rafiksis te20:32
* Stskeeps goes back to building stuff20:32
rafiksis there a bug on the package?20:33
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rafiksI have an n800 w/os2008..20:34
Stskeepsdo you have extras enabled?20:34
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Stskeepsand i dunno if there's a bug.. look in application manager log20:34
rafiksyes,i think20:34
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: my bootstrap.tar.gz seriously wrote a debootstrap on top of meamo? :P20:36
Stskeeps(reading bug reports)20:36
Meizirkki_n810i think so, but i am not sure20:36
Meizirkki_n810installer gave some error, then i wanted to try debootstrapping manuallu20:38
Meizirkki_n810but the terminal has gone crazy20:38
rafiksjust looked @ d log,apparently it doesn't like easy deb package,are this 2 the same?20:38
Stskeepsno, but it may conflict heavily20:39
Meizirkki_n810Stskeeps, i am sure it was the installer..20:39
Stskeepscan you copy-paste the log to me, rafiks?20:39
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: alright, :P20:39
Stskeepsthat was probably that night i was drunk and coding on it..20:39
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rafiksStskeeps: wiil do .20:41
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MakeGhooh my... Fennec is so heavy and slow that it's not a clever choice, at least yet.20:44
MeizirkkiStskeeps: can you give me direct link to I did not find it from trunk20:45
Meizirkkii was looking from the wrong place :)20:47
GAN800MakeGho, it's just barely an alpha release.20:47
Stskeepstry Tear or something instead, MakeGho20:47
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MakeGhoGAN800: I know :) But I'm wondering because some sources said it to be "six times faster"20:50
GAN800MakeGho, that was only one js benchmael20:50
GAN800good lord20:50
MakeGhooh ok20:51
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GAN800MakeGho, and that's only because it's based on a newer release of Firefox20:51
GAN800MicroB will get those js improvements eventually, too.20:51
Stskeepsrafiks: you should poke qole about that.. we seemingily ended up using same name for our icon20:53
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MakeGhoStskeeps: What's this thing you're refering to? I can't succeed to find anything useful.20:54
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rafiksStskeeps: qole's not here is he?20:55
Stskeepsrafiks: nop, he's on itt, solution is uninstall easy debian for you, it's unintentional we share same icon filename and path..20:56
ron1ndoes the ARM kernel have its own home like the x86 kernel resides at
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rafiksStskeeps: thanks..will try that.20:59
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||cwron1n: is THE home for all officially supported arch's21:05
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||cwron1n: every platform tends to have their own patches that are not supported by though21:06
ron1n||cw, I found the ppc and ps3 ports, hunting for the arm port still21:06
ron1n||cw, I see21:06
||cwppc is arm....21:06
Stskeepswtf. :P21:06
||cwwell, in source21:06
||cwwell, it's all just source anyway21:07
ron1nI have a lot to learn =P21:07
||cwand there are multiple types of arm21:07
ron1nI am use=Pd to x86 and that is about it21:07
||cwppc being one of them21:07
MeizirkkiStskeeps: You got it up! =P21:07
ron1nI am used to x86 and thats about it =P***21:07
||cwsure... except now x86 is 2 arch's too, with x86-6421:07
ron1nyeah, but the 32 bit vs 64bit is the only difference21:08
ron1nwhile looking at ppc and arm, they seem to be very different21:08
* Meizirkki is adding mr-repo to his sources.list21:09
ron1nI had no idea they derive from the same source21:09
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StskeepsMeizirkki: codename is 'reconstructed' or 'testing', main, non-free and contrib21:10
Stskeepsi'll be adding boot packages later tonight21:10
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Stskeepsso we can install easily21:12
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MeizirkkiUbuntu-mobile starts now when i type startx :)21:17
Stskeepstake a pic, even though it's crap quality21:18
Stskeepsit's a nice showoff21:18
Meizirkkiwhat about crap quality 3gp video21:19
Stskeepspic is better thancrap quality 3gp :P21:19
* ron1n says this topic is relative to his intrests21:19
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Meizirkkii'll take both :)21:20
Stskeepsron1n: we're doing a proof of concept of
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ron1nStskeeps, the deblet project uses jaiky instead of twitter!? =P21:29
* ron1n is a big twitter fan21:29
ron1nthis is awesome, this is what I expected to see when I first purchased my 770 early 200621:31
ron1nI mean, a little app here or a little app there is cool and all, but I really wanted to see the open source community really "run with" the internet tablets21:32
Stskeepsron1n: well this is just a offshoot of the deblet experiences21:32
* RST38h moos evilly21:32
ron1nStskeeps, I understand, I'm speaking of my recent findings with maemo in general21:33
Stskeepsand not a nokia project, but something we in community try to do to somewhat prove to nokia this really ought to be the way to go :P21:33
ron1nthats what I really wanted to see from the begining21:33
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RST38hSts: Looking at your maemo reconstructed wiki page, "or installing a VMware appliance for non-Linux users" is wrong21:34
RST38hSts: it should be a native windows sdk coming in the .msi package21:34
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ron1nNokia is a big company. Big companies like open source, but to a point it just isn't practical. Blobs exist everywhere with in OS200x21:35
Stskeepsron1n: it's actually not that bad when you look closer21:35
RST38hSts: Scratch any mentions of eclipse - I don't think anybody but java diehards use this beast21:35
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StskeepsRST38h: yet it seems to be used for a variety of different langs21:35
StskeepsRST38h: and the eclipse/etc is input from other sources in this case :P21:36
ron1nStskeeps, when I checked OS2006 out, it was bad. Everything from the wireless, to low level touch screen stuff was a blob21:36
RST38hSts: it *supports* different languages21:36
RST38hSts: But do try to use Eclipse for serious development and you will see why it is not worth the effort21:37
StskeepsRST38h: i'm a bit of a vim/make person21:37
Stskeepsso i'm not the best to argue in this area21:37
RST38hSlow, unstable, has non-standard UI - typical java app21:37
ron1nKdevelope? works nicely21:37
RST38hSts: pico/make here21:37
Stskeepsick pico21:37
ron1nRST38h, pico is the way to go for plaintext all the way21:37
* Stskeeps is a joe or vim guy21:38
Stskeepsdepending on what i need to do21:38
RST38hjoe is probably ok, not much different from pico21:38
Stskeepsi grew up on the polypascal editor so it kinda went from there..21:38
Stskeepssame shortcut21:38
ron1nI'm a firm believer in optionally reading the man page, I really don't feel like flipping through the mah an appn page just to get up and running wit21:38
* qwerty12_N800 (despite only knowing the basics) is a vim fan :p21:38
ron1nqwerty12_N800, vimtutor is the way to go21:39
ron1nI mean to use it, I just haven't found the time21:39
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RST38hanything that does not support arrow keys out of the box is not a real text editor21:39
ron1nRST38h, uses something similar21:39
qwerty12_N800ron1n, yeah... I just can't bring myself to run it :/21:40
RST38hno, "something similar" won't do21:40
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RST38hIf arrow keys do not work, I am not using it21:40
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StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: if you get bored.. see if you can compile kernel-diablo natively21:57
Meizirkki_n810are you kidding?21:57
Stskeepsi said if you got bored ;)21:57
GAN800RST38h, can you do an ru_RU translation for ?21:58
Meizirkki_n810okay, it is the next thing i will try :)21:58
RST38hGAN: Depends on how much work it is21:58
Meizirkki_n810that kernel tihng21:58
RST38hif it is just typing a text file then yes21:59
GAN80012 categories21:59
Meizirkki_n810now i am fighting with ubuntu-mobile =)21:59
GAN800Just stick them on the wiki, or send them to me and I'll stick them there.21:59
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lcukwhy does os2007 do different stuff and try to guess if i use finger or stylus?22:00
GAN800Because that's the way it was programmed22:00
GAN800It was dropped for OS2008 because it really didn't work very well.22:00
lcukyeah i can tell22:00
lcukgood idea in principle22:01
* lcuk now sees what people meant about stylus friendly22:01
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mlpugi attach n810 with usb to computer. /media/disk pops up with some subdirectories. Where are these in n810 filesystem?22:02
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StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: actually nm22:03
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StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: i'll do that on my own, as it is deadly :P22:03
mlpugI mean if I run  e.g. cp /home/mlpug/file.avi /media/disk     where in n810 I can find that file.avi?22:04
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, hmm, compiling the kernel on n800? Do you plan to do that after you've taken drugs? :P22:06
milhouselike flashing, recompiling the kernel on the n800 should always be done with the charger connected...22:06
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: no, vodka!22:07
RST38hGAN: Ready22:07
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, heh...22:07
VeggenWell. We *did* compile kernel back in the days when we had 386/25 w/4 MB memory, too...22:07
derfThe kernel was a lot smaller back then.22:08
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RST38h1MB kernel was considered huge22:08
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derfSLOC-wise, too.22:09
GAN800RST38h, I see it on the wiki. Excellent, thank you! :)22:09
RST38hFreeBSD had 600kB..1MB kernels22:09
GAN800Hi, milhouse. :)22:09
milhousehi GAN22:09
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Veggenderf: true. But the n810 has more memory and is faster ;)22:10
RST38hOSF/1 had a huge 10MB kernel that was actually a Mach "microkernel" + crap22:10
qwerty12_N800milhouse, hrm, want to update your schematics folder? ;)22:10
milhousewe got a new one?22:10
qwerty12_N800milhouse, i found n810 ones and some other goodies a while back...22:10
milhousesure - you got the url?22:11
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GAN800Somebody should package up avahi for Extras so it doesn't need to be coerced into working.22:18
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qwerty12_N800GAN800, Bug pH5 :P22:25
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qwerty12_N800according to summary, he's the uploader22:26
sjgadsbyWhy am I bothering to argue with allnameswereout?22:26
GAN800Imma bug qwerty1222:26
Stskeepssjgadsby: the kind of person that's kinda like fly paper?22:27
GAN800sjgadsby, S'okay, it's hard to avoid22:27
GAN800I still want to know his angle22:27
* lcuk needs to update to 2008, its all strange in here22:28
sjgadsbyHe appears to be omniscient and infallible.22:29
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lcukhiya sjgadsby22:29
GAN800He's an intellectual22:29
sjgadsbyHiHi, lcuk.22:29
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Meizirkki_n810with telnet, i would be able to start apps in ubuntu-mobile-desktop...22:30
qwerty12_N800lardman|afk, compiled gmp with cs2008 toolchain, gcc went fine, libtool did not...22:31
lcukdo you think tim could become an opensismus trainee? (i really hope he gets sorted)22:32
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: scrshots!22:32
qwerty12_N800lardman|afk, attempted to compile rather :)22:32
Meizirkki_n810they look exsactly same that those i already have in picasaweb22:33
Meizirkki_n810okay, i'll upload some more :)22:33
GAN800lcuk, well, he's not in Berlin and he'  waaaaaay overqualified.22:34
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lcukyeah i know gan, it bites22:35
Meizirkki_n810Stskeeps: Sould i uplodad em somewhere that is possible for anybody to download?22:35
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qwerty12_N800GAN800, seen pybattery? if there should be something that takes the name of adv-power, it's that...22:36
StskeepsMeizirkki_n810: picasa is fine i think22:37
milhouseoh dear - what's going on here? Open this link on Jaaksi's site ( then click the link to Jaffa's "ideas and opinions" and get a 403 because Jaaksi is a spammer... :)22:39
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lcukwhy the heck did they remove the layout mode from 2007?22:40
milhouselcuk: to annoy you (probably)22:41
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Stskeepslcuk: layout mode?22:41
* lcuk has never run os2007 before22:41
lcukdesktop applets22:41
lcuklocked unless in layout mode22:41
milhouseDesktop applets that couldn't be locked in place was a genius feature22:42
qwerty12_N800lcuk, but at least they were able to be locked :)22:42
infobotmilhouse meant: Desktop applets that couldn't be locked in place is a genius feature22:42
lcukqwerty12_N800, thats the point, why remove the feature22:42
* lcuk shakes head lol22:42
Stskeeps"we don't need no stinkin' layout mode when we have lock touch screen and keys!"22:42
* lcuk is forever movin his clock around22:43
milhousestskeeps - on the contrary, because it IS a touchscreen is exactly why you need them locked down! :) too many times i've messed up the desktop just picking up/putting down the n8x0... takes about 5 minutes to get everything back to normal 'cos the snap to grid is so shit22:43
Stskeepsmilhouse: i was being mildly sarcastic, i want to lock mine too, bloody irritating "feature"22:44
qwerty12_N800a free shank to whoever makes a patch for hildon-desktop to add an option to lock applets!22:44
milhousestskeeps: sorry thought you were a nokia drone :)22:44
Stskeepsoi, i take offense to that :(22:45
qwerty12_N800someone "frontport" the relevant code from maemo-af-desktop into hildon-desktop :p22:45
milhousestskeeps: hehe, sorry :)22:45
GAN800milhouse, you've been away too long. ;)22:46
GAN800See Maemo Reconstructed. :)22:46
milhouseyah, just been monitoring bugzilla mostly22:46
milhouseGAN800: Again!22:47
milhouseGAN800: It's like rearangging deckchairs on the Titanic...22:47
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milhouseGAN: No offence to you and the guys who are busting a gut for Nokia, but well you know how it is...22:48
milhouseI shall read the Wiki entry though22:49
* Stskeeps personally isn't, - if nokia sees potential in this stuff, we'll have a kickass maemo future, if not, we have a kickass maemo alternative :P22:49
GAN800milhouse, we're moving in a positive direction these days.22:49
milhouseI do wonder sometimes when I read some of the "WONTFIX" and "RESOLVED" bugs in bugzilla22:50
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GAN800Well, WONTFIXing recently is more of a Diablo -> Fremantle issue22:51
GAN800A LOT of platform stuff is changing in Diablo22:51
infobotGAN800 meant: A LOT of platform stuff is changing in Fremantle22:51
milhouseMaybe, the ones that have got my goat the last few days are the GPS one and the English (Canada) bug... I mean how hard would it be to support English (Canada)? I like Canada.22:51
GAN800Anyway, I'm not busting a gut for Nokia22:51
GAN800I'm busting a gut for the community.22:52
milhouseGAN: There's always lots of platform changes with every big release, that seems to be part of the problem...22:52
GAN800Nah, these are good.22:52
milhouseHaving said that, I look at 2008 and compare it to 2005 and I don't see a huge amount of change in 3 years.... most of it is under the cover, still the same old sh1tty UI and application bugs...22:53
milhouseGAN: I hope you are right, I really do.22:53
GAN800Fremantle is a brand new UI direction22:53
milhouseGAN: I really appreciate your gut busting :)22:53
GAN800Trust me, I'm just as jaded, tired and cynical as you and I'm feeling good about things.22:54
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milhouseGAN: I know, that means many of the old bugs will be "WONTFIX"'d (good) but new ones will emerge that will be ignored for 3+ years until the next major UI redesign etc. It's this attitude which must be changed... somehow.22:54
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: you ever tried bashing your head in with the source package for kernel-diablo-modules-extra_2.6.21-200829maemo1_all.deb and such?22:54
GAN800milhouse, thing is, though, we're getting close to that step 522:55
milhouseGAN: I got a developer N810 which makes me feel guilty about slating Maemo so next time I'll pay full whack for a N900 and have a clear conscience. :)22:55
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Meizirkki_n810Stskeeps: There are some photos: They are VERY crappy quality. I'll continue playing with this tomorrow, it is 22.50 here.22:55
Stskeepsnini, Meizirkki_n81022:56
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, nah. just compiled the kernel the "traditional" way, go on to ssu repo and replace their kernel  image in the deb with mine22:56
milhouseGAN: Is there a Step 6?22:56
Stskeepsand what meiz just posted is ubuntu mobile on a n81022:56
Stskeepsvery blurry pics22:56
lcukmilhouse, harmattan22:57
GAN800milhouse, pressumably22:57
Meizirkki_n810There are better quality pics in n810 album, but they are from chroot22:57
milhouseAh yes...22:57
GAN800lcuk, Fremantle is step422:57
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lcukfremantle is maemo 5 is it not?22:58
milhouseit is22:58
GAN800Harmattan is either 4.1 or 522:58
milhousebut I think the N810 was step 3.5 of 5 wasn't it?22:58
milhouseor something like that...22:58
GAN800770, N800, N810, N900, Nxxx22:58
lcukwhat about the w22:59
milhouseWill be interesting to see if Nokia/Maemo manage to push out regular, working Freemantle updates AND take on board the feedback and fix the bugs prior to release. That would be a sign of major progress.22:59
milhousesorry, I meant alphas not updates22:59
GAN800lcuk, N810W is not a step.23:00
lcukthat also depends on if we test them properly23:01
milhouselcuk: if you mean file quality bug reports, yep couldn't agree more.23:01
GAN800milhouse, that's in the discussion phase23:01
GAN800The alpha sdk is coming out next month.23:01
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GAN800Quim and Marius were talking an unstable distribution23:01
milhouseHopefully not like Sardine23:02
bergieIIRC they considered sardine a failure and said they will do better this time23:02
lcukdepends where it sits in the community23:02
bergiebut don't remember who said that23:02
milhousebergie: that would be a fair assesment, cheers23:03
lcukif it stays ahead of stable branch it will work23:03
* Stskeeps 's vision is the maemo basics in community hands and nokia basing firmware on top of it, and contracting companies to contribute to the base maemo and such23:04
GAN800milhouse, browse around the -developers archives a bit.23:04
milhouseI must admit I've got several hundred unread -developers messages :)23:05
milhouseMust catchup eventually - last time I checked it Darius was in the process of get blackballed. :)23:05
GAN800Worth poking through23:05
lcukmilhouse, thats some bad lag23:05
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milhouseqwerty: All schematic files now uploaded to - thanks! :)23:08
RST38h~curse BSCIS and each of its many departments23:08
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qwerty12_N800milhouse, cool :)23:11
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qwerty12_N800~stab watchdog23:12
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Stskeepshm, pybattery in extras?23:14
Stskeepscan't seem to find a screenshot or link23:14
GAN800He seems to have dropped the link.23:15
qwerty12_N800an upgrade? *hopeful*23:15
Stskeepsdoes it use HAL or similar to kcbatt?23:15
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RST38hYes, but is it in Python?23:17
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Stskeepspybattery kinda gives that off23:17
RST38hNo go then...23:17
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, hal23:17
Stskeeps(.. morbid curiousity), besides showing stuff like advanced backlight and a battery applet in maemo-r wouldn't be that bad23:17
Stskeepsas a demonstrator it's silly to close source stuff like that23:17
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: if you ever want to compile the source package i spoke of, remove HOST_CC=host-cc or something in the package rules, it breaks everything23:18
milhouseAnyone know if Freemantle will support remote SIM ?23:19
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, ah, thanks. btw:
milhouse(Bluetooth Profile)23:19
milhouseermm... OK maybe that should be Freemantle on N90023:20
RST38hqwerty: coool23:20
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: quite intruging23:20
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RST38hqwerty: now, if it only were in C...23:20
Stskeepsget on recoding it23:20
milhouseRemote SIM would avoid me having to get a second mobile network contract23:20
GAN800Fremantle. :p23:20
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GAN800milhouse, we're way too far off to know something like that.23:21
milhouseHopefully someone/somewhere has given it some thought... :)23:21
milhouseNot too many people will be keen on getting a second airtime contract23:21
GAN800Pressumably, but they're shuttered up in Nokia HQ23:21
* RST38h isn't very keen on getting the first airtime contract either23:22
milhousehehe - true23:22
RST38hwhy should I make a contract with these guys? isn't money enough?23:22
milhouseSeemingly not... although if you buy a subsidised phone it's fair enough to have a contract otherwise you could run off with the phone...23:23
* RST38h isn't buying subsidized phones. I can still pay for my gadgets, thanks =)23:23
milhouseI'm on a SIM-only "contract" which means the contract is pretty pointless23:23
milhouseIf all you want is airtime then I suppose there's always Pay as you go - no contract required23:24
RST38hIs there anything else to want from these guys?23:24
RST38hRingtones for $3 a pop?23:25
RST38hSMS messages for $.15 when I can just as well run ICQ client?23:25
milhouseData pipes... one day they'll learn that's all they are...23:25
RST38hYou can't effectively milk clients with a data pipe23:26
milhousesure you can - ask T-Mobile/Google23:26
milhouseapparently they charge you for IM messages sent with any client other than GoogleTalk23:27
Stskeepsheh, android "rm -rf /"23:27
RST38hmilhouse: And how do they count?23:27
milhouseno idea23:27
RST38hLet us say I run Slick and connect to an ICQ server. How is my traffic different from other traffic?23:27
`0660that should be pretty easy to get around :)23:27
Stskeepsssl :P23:28
milhousebadly, judging by my last bill from O2 which made me leave rather than get stung with another bill for services I never used...23:28
RST38hyou have got a Googlephone? =)23:28
milhouseRST - I'm sure some people will get around it, most normal people may not23:28
RST38hmost "normal people" will send SMS messages for 4.1523:31
milhouse4.15? A bargain! ;)23:31
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lcukthe principle thing i want from my service provider is reliability23:32
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RST38hwhich means you are likely to buy service from a traditional phone company (Verizon in US, MTS in Russia)23:33
milhouseI just want my service provider to stay out of my face - I don't want to know they are there23:33
lcukno way! im not payin long distance, ill find a provider in the UK ;)23:33
RST38hmilhouse: but how are they gonna develop your brand loyalty? :)23:34
SargunWhy would you guys say the community has not come up with an alternative vector mapping program?23:34
lcukcos vectors are hard23:34
RST38hlcuk: But surely, your landline phone monopolists also provides cellular service?23:34
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milhouseRST: Bugger loyalty! I'm on SIM only for a reason!!23:34
RST38hSargun: Where would you get vector map data?23:34
SargunRST38h, OSM.23:35
lcukRST38h, im pullin ur leg a bit, yeah theres reliable cell phone providers here23:35
GAN800Sargun, um? Navit? Roadmap?23:35
RST38hSargun: There is already a program for that called Navit. Or you can use Roadmap23:35
SargunLet me try them23:35
RST38hBut the OSM data is rather crappy23:35
lcukdepends on location23:35
lcukif its crap near you walk around with gps for a while23:36
milhouseRST: What landline monopolists, the phone exchanges have been open for several years now - literally anyone can provide a service (voice and/or data)23:36
RST38hOk, to correct myself, most locations I really need are complete crap in OSM23:36
lcukit will get better ;)23:36
lcukRST38h, just drive where you need to go a few times and then a few weeks later the data will be available for you to use23:36
lcukhope you dont need directions today23:36
RST38hmilhouse: Yes, but only landline monopolist has enough locations throughout the area to saturate it with cell transceivers23:36
RST38hlcuk: Yea, the open source principle - "if you need something, do it yourself!"23:37
SargunWhere does navit/roadmap get its vector data?23:37
RST38hmilhouse: The rest will have to negotiate tower space with all the property owners23:37
milhouseRST: Few companies are able to make the kind of investment that operating a cellular network requires, we've got 4 or 5 companies in the UK all competing and squabbling over the same locations...23:38
RST38hSargun: OSM.23:38
SargunRST38h, ah.23:38
RST38hmilhouse: Let me show you an example23:38
milhouseRST: And none of them are British Telecom which used to be (and possibly still is from a backhaul perspective) the landline monopolist23:38
SargunRST38h, Do you guys think people would pay $40-50 + map fee for Teleatlas or Navteq?23:38
lcukwhats performance of navit like on the n8x0?23:38
RST38hmilhouse: Take east coast US. Its landlines are served by Verizon, a monopolist23:38
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RST38hSargun: No.23:39
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Sargunrsalveti, Why would you say that?23:39
milhouseRST: Sorry, I was talking about the UK - I have little idea how the US operates, I assumed it was open23:39
Sargunerr, RST38h23:39
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RST38hmilhouse: There are (or were) several cell providers: AT&T, Sprint, T-Mobile, Verizon, etc23:39
RST38hmilhouse: Guess who has the best coverage ;)23:39
lcukmilhouse, didnt o2 start as the mobile arm of bt?23:39
milhouseLCUK: It did, got flogged off to the Spanish23:40
RST38hmilhouse: Open or not, but you can't MAKE Verizon place your cell transmitter onto their tower23:40
qwerty12_N800lcuk, yeah... cellnet > bt cellnet >  o223:40
RST38hYou have to pay for that23:40
milhouse RST: Why can't the other companies put up their own towers? That's what happens here although it would make more sense to share towers23:41
RST38hmilhouse: You do not place tower in the air. It stands at some property. Or your transmitter gets mounted on a building.23:41
milhouseRST: Cell towers are prime assets - why should Verizon make space for a competitor?23:41
RST38hmilhouse: And of course, people always complain about these23:41
RST38hmilhouse:right. and it does not.23:42
milhouseRST: Yes, same here - usually on top of tall buildings.23:42
milhouseRST: Getting a cell tower is like being given the permission to print money.23:42
RST38hmilhouse: That is why Verizon has the best coverage - it has historically owned a lot of pieces of land23:42
RST38hmilhouse: It has got landline exchanges throughout the region and being a monopolist it can easily make deals that other companies can't23:43
RST38hLike placing stations in DC subway23:43
milhouseRST: In the UK that was BT (O2) but they didn't site their cell towers optimally, whereas Vodafone did the mathematics to work out the optimal coverage and bought the rights to site their towers in the best locations using the least number of towers and still had a better network than O2...23:43
RST38hmilhouse: Same stuff with MTS in Moscow. And I am pretty sure T-Mobile enjoys the same privileges in Germany23:44
RST38hmilhouse: just means BT management was stupid23:44
milhouseRST: Yep23:45
milhouseRST: But Vodafone were smart, and beat BT - however the challenge that Vodafone faced is the same for Sprint etc.23:45
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milhouseRST: It's the reality of the situation, what do they expect - hand outs from Verizon? They just have to accept it and be smart about what they do. Sadly they're probably not (judging by the complaints I hear about various US service proviers)23:46
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RST38hmilhouse: I don't think US consumers expect anything from cell companies any more23:47
milhouseIt does seem to be a bit of a mess over there23:47
RST38hmilhouse: Everybody got used to be assfucked on permanent basis23:48
milhouseNot helped by trying to push their own world standard...23:48
RST38hUS isn't pushing cell standards any more23:48
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RST38hIf you mean CDMA it is only supported by one network in the US (Verizon)23:48
milhouseNo but they did in the past, when everyone else was happy with GSM etc.23:48
RST38hThey didn't23:49
RST38hAT&T historically used TDMA (pre-GSM standard) and moved to GSM eventually23:49
RST38hVerizon used CDMA all the way, provided by QUualcomm23:49
milhouseWhy did the US try to setup a CDMA network in Iraq? :)23:50
RST38hBTW, 3G (UMTS) is also CDMA based (CDMA/TDMA are MAC protocol names rather than standard names)23:50
RST38hmilhouse: Verizon or Qualcomm probably got a contract, that's all23:50
milhouseYes, it was political - not much use to the Iraqis23:50
RST38hIraq has known worse things than CDMA network23:51
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sjgadsbyAt some point this afternoon, my N810 began popping up the stylus keyboard for input even when the hardware keyboard is out. What settings might I check to try to return to the old, stylus-keyboard-only-when-hardware-keyboard-is-closed behavior?23:52
milhouseControl Panel -> Text Input?23:53
lcuksjgadsby, have you tried the windwos fix23:53
lcukwindows even23:53
sjgadsbyWhat's the windows fix?23:53
lcukturn it off and back on again23:54
sjgadsbyAh. Gotcha.23:54
sjgadsbyI'll try that now, lcuk.23:54
lcukmay be simpler than twiddling with things - if you havent done anything specific to change stuff something couldv justcocked up23:54
* lcuk iwll pass you onto level 2 support if its still broken :P23:55
lcukwhere do i get typing assistance?23:55
lcuki need an intern23:55
lcukusb lead for my n810 wont work on n800 will it23:56
lcukwho lives near manchester and has an n80023:56
lcukor do i have to send off for one23:56
milhousesarf lahndan - sorry23:57
milhouseany miniUSB lead should work in a N80023:58
sjgadsbyYep, lcuk, a reboot fixed it. Such a simple fix; sorry for the noise.23:58
milhouse(microUSB on n810)23:58
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lcukmmm ill try and find one though23:59

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