IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-08-20

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lardman	what do you reckon, convert DSP-side mp3 code to use packed 16 bit chars, or convert ARM-side code to place a single 8bit char in each 16bit int (which will be read as a char on DSP)?	00:18
lardman	the latter me thinks	00:18
* Jaffa__ would first try the latter		00:19
liri	has anyone tried irreco+mythtv?	00:20
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lbt	liri: what IR device?	00:23
liri	lbt: I'm not planing to use an IR device, I just want to control mythtv itself	00:25
liri	lbt: I'm seeing in the package manager that there are backend packages, are those the plugins for irreco?	00:26
lbt	not looked at it b4	00:26
liri	ahh	00:26
lbt	hmm - so does it simulate IR over a wifi	00:26
lbt	there's mythetomer	00:27
liri	so those backend are plugins, yeah.	00:27
liri	irreco simulates a remote control over a wifi connection	00:27
lbt	yes - and fakes X events	00:27
lbt	eek	00:27
lbt	TBH, this is all a bit X10	00:28
liri	a bit'	00:28
lbt	throw out a command and hope it works!	00:28
liri	I haven't seen mythetomer before, have you used it?	00:28
lbt	yes - it works	00:28
lbt	but it's not my approach	00:28
lbt	I think we need a solution that controls a frontend with feedback	00:29
lbt	have you seen the new squeezebox control?	00:29
liri	uhm, nope	00:29
lbt	it's a wifi enabled remote control	00:31
lbt	with a touch screen	00:31
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lbt	like a harmony IR control crossed with an iPhone...	00:31
lbt	http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/speakers_audio/wireless_music_systems/devices/3817&cl=roeu,en?WT.ac=ps\|4398	00:31
lbt	that is how to do it...	00:32
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lbt	GreyFoxx is also interested in Myth remotes...	00:32
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dougt	is there a way to make the n810 work on a wired lan?	00:33
lbt	usb networking	00:33
lbt	and bridge mode	00:33
dougt	something without a requirement of a host.	00:33
lbt	or maybe a usb/lan dongle?	00:33
dougt	yeah ^^	00:33
darkblue_B	ok, here's a classic question.. I have a N800.. I occassionally log into it.. no, I ddnt keep good records of my login credentials :-/.. I just logged in as user.. works fine.. tried to log in as root, and I swear the password had set up.. and it fails.. chances of it being rooted?	00:33
dougt	i wanna just be able to plug this device into a rj45.	00:33
crashanddie	darkblue_B, hardly, just might have forgotten your password ?	00:34
liri	looking at mythetomer it's basically just a remote style layout but somewhat primitive compared to irreco I think	00:34
arachnist	http://www.google.com/codesearch?q=die_you_gravy_sucking_pig_dog	00:34
darkblue_B	crashanddie: I really dont think so. of course its possible	00:34
lbt	yep	00:35
crashanddie	arachnist, I'm wondering if I should ask you what you were hoping to find with such a query string	00:35
dougt	arachnist: pig dog?	00:35
darkblue_B	sigh I guess there isnt much I can do as user..	00:35
arachnist	crashanddie: it wasn't me, it's a paste from another irc channel	00:35
darkblue_B	I guess I'll re-flash it.. sfwr rev? for an N800?	00:36
arachnist	dougt: dunno	00:36
crashanddie	darkblue_B, diablo	00:36
darkblue_B	the only ting I really need for t is the VNC app...	00:36
darkblue_B	is there a newer VNC that works?	00:36
dougt	arachnist: creative, at the very least.	00:37
darkblue_B	I have x11vnc in Extras.. it deosnt work all that well	00:37
darkblue_B	but it does work	00:38
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liri	lbt: just configured irreco, it's awesome	00:43
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liri	lbt: though they haven't got any preconfigured remotes for mythtv which is somewhat annoying	00:43
lbt	I just dl'ed it...	00:43
lbt	yep I was looking too :)	00:44
darkblue_B	why does netstat show some connection to a comcast address?	00:46
lardman	night chaps	00:46
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darkblue_B	now its gone... I dont like this	00:52
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GAN800	Fucking lame ass bugspam.	00:57
GAN800	@hotmail.com of course.	00:58
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timeless	gan: why is planet broken? :)	01:05
jott	timeless: because x-fade has to push a button every 2 hours - as he is on vacation now everything breaks down :P	01:07
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GAN800	jott++	01:07
GAN800	X-Fade disappears and maemo.org goes straight to shit. :P	01:07
timeless	heh	01:08
GAN800	Job insurance or something. ;)	01:08
lcuk	timeless, the planet is not broken, george bush will be out of office soon and hopefully we can get back to normal	01:08
* GAN800 rolleyes.		01:08
lcuk	x-fade IS maemo.org - its run from his personal 800	01:08
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GAN800	Naive lcuk.	01:09
lcuk	what the planet crack, or the server infrastructure?	01:09
jott	you choose :)	01:09
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GAN800	Thinking it makes any difference which party is in office.	01:09
lcuk	yer especially when im in england :P	01:10
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jott	well i had really good parties in the office :P	01:10
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lcuk	yer, office parties are fun	01:10
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lcuk	wtf - itT has a tagging section, but i can only apply 2 tags	01:30
lcuk	i wanted to add bugs,banana,funny,roadtrip and it moaned about 2 too many tags \@/	01:31
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jott	tag spammer :p	01:32
lcuk	well ive never used it before, i like to be descriptive :)	01:33
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pupnik	what does winCE use for 3D api?	01:33
lcuk	i thought it was opengl es or whatever its called, but now i think is it something like directx-lite?	01:33
lcuk	or it should be ^	01:34
* pupnik ponders		01:36
jott	it definitely supports gl es.	01:37
jott	maybe dx is also available.	01:37
pupnik	ah We thought it would be fun to do it, so we ported the recenly-GPL-released Quake 3 Arena from iD Software to Windows CE 4.2 for Pocket PC, as a test for our 'SpeedDemon' Windows CE profiler. The game support the Intel 2700g chipset for hardware OpenGL-ES rendering, as well as software rendering.	01:37
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jott	we would run quake 4 if we had drivers :P	01:38
jott	powervr ranting time!	01:38
lcuk	rule 12	01:38
lcuk	-2	01:39
* lcuk hopes we never get to needing rule 35		01:39
pupnik	so one could make something using - say - sdl + opengl ES and port it to WinCE fairly quickly	01:40
jott	the n9x0 omap3 driver issue? :)	01:40
lcuk	if you can abstract the file system and OS functions away i believe the opengl interface remains the same	01:41
pupnik	i was just curious about crossplatform sw	01:41
lcuk	tbut of course, the same can be said about win/linux	01:42
AStorm	for 3D you need less of OS functions though	01:42
lcuk	yes, but you need to load those assets into memory from disk	01:43
lcuk	and handle user input	01:43
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AStorm	malloc is portable enough	01:44
AStorm	user input isn't though, but sdl takes care of that	01:44
AStorm	:)	01:44
lcuk	malloc doesnt understand disc access commands	01:45
AStorm	there are portable filesystem libs	01:45
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lcuk	AStorm, no qualms at all, just running over what pupnik asked	01:45
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practisevoodoo	lol, there's a maemo version that i am rich iphone ap	01:46
neilpwc	yep, i-am-free	01:47
AStorm	ok, once we get high-speed GSM modem with drivers (there are many), open wifi driver and better GPS chip, world domination is assured	01:48
AStorm	this kind of n900 would pwn iPhone	01:48
AStorm	OMAP3 would be great too :>	01:48
GeneralAntilles	OMAP3 will solve most problems.	01:49
jott	open wifi? gps? gsm? no..	01:49
GeneralAntilles	and Beagle is advertising accelerated OpenGL with the OMAP3530	01:49
GeneralAntilles	Please no GSM	01:49
GeneralAntilles	Please dear god, no GSM.	01:49
GeneralAntilles	jott, did qwerty12 poke you about rotation-support?	01:50
jott	not that i noticed	01:50
lcuk	jott, i still notice the pandora isn't on 3d	01:51
GeneralAntilles	Why do people insist on replying to bugmail?	01:51
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lcuk	:D its the best damned thread on itT EVER	01:51
jott	well 3d makes the device closed :/	01:51
lcuk	(yes, i know ive replied more than others :D)	01:51
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* GeneralAntilles isn't going to help people who reply to bugmail instead of posting a comment in the bug.		01:53
lcuk	ahhhhh you don't mean: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23001	01:54
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, what does that have to do with bugmail?	01:56
lcuk	the guy has a real bug living in his 800 :D	01:56
* GeneralAntilles doesn't feel like trying to explain things over and over and over again to people who don't pay attention on itT.		01:57
jott	GeneralAntilles: FAQ :)	01:57
GeneralAntilles	jott, that doesn't help.	01:57
GeneralAntilles	Unless you want me to cover questions like: "Has Nokia tried to get their partners to be more open?"	01:58
jott	then you can generate an autoreply "Please read the FAQ, kthxbye"	01:58
jott	:)	01:58
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* GeneralAntilles goes through and deletes some more crap itT wiki articles.		01:59
GeneralAntilles	I now know where people were getting their bad advice. . . .	01:59
lcuk	gen, take a deep breath and just reply. obviously getting worked up about it wont help and you cannot fly out to every single first poster and hit them on the head with a cluestick.	02:00
jott	hot tips: enable red pill, add crappy repositories,	02:00
GeneralAntilles	If only.	02:00
GeneralAntilles	jott, every. damn. article. . . .	02:00
GeneralAntilles	Or covering every single possible way to do something.	02:00
lcuk	fight fire with fire, put articles up about how to clean it off	02:01
GeneralAntilles	Instead of just the two that are stable, sensible and straightforward.	02:01
GeneralAntilles	The USB host mode article cleaned up OK	02:01
GeneralAntilles	The rest. . . .	02:01
lcuk	once google sees the new wiki properly the good will push out the bad	02:01
GeneralAntilles	Let's just say I'm resting the responsibility for rotation on qwerty12's shoulder's instead of those articles.	02:02
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, the midgard wiki is this the first result for most things.	02:02
lcuk	for now it is yes	02:02
jott	and #maemo his pretty good ranked too :)	02:02
lcuk	we therefore need to push it so google sees the change	02:02
GeneralAntilles	I think I may have to get with dneary and see about going through the old articles to see what can be deleted.	02:02
lcuk	jott, pov.lt is amazingly high isnt it :)	02:02
jott	old wiki should just be shut down.	02:03
lcuk	no	02:03
GeneralAntilles	jott, problem is, there's still some mildly useful 770 information there.	02:03
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lcuk	old wiki is the one place where owners of old devices can get the info	02:03
lcuk	that was the WHOLE reason why the new wiki could cut out the cruft	02:03
GeneralAntilles	There's a lot of stuff that can go, though.	02:03
jott	they should move along and update to 2008he :)	02:04
GeneralAntilles	Stuff where the new article is relevant to all devices	02:04
lcuk	the mess made because no1 knew a better way or had anything else to switch to	02:04
GeneralAntilles	and the old one is just dragging things down	02:04
GeneralAntilles	Like root access.	02:04
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jott	i really doubt its worth the confusion.	02:04
jott	so much stuff is outdated and unmaintained even for 770	02:04
lcuk	ok, so how do you ensure you keep the good stuff for n770 without destroying it by bulldozing through ripping out the 8x0 stuff	02:05
GeneralAntilles	jott, as do I.	02:05
jott	or just wrong :)	02:05
GeneralAntilles	But there were a lot of knee-jerk reactions against deleting.	02:05
GeneralAntilles	s/n770/770/g	02:05
lcuk	jott, but the linux way is to allow the older stuff to survive	02:05
lcuk	there is no solid fixed end of line	02:05
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, OK, that was COMPLETELY ass backwards	02:05
lcuk	if people are using it, great	02:05
GeneralAntilles	s/8x0/N8x0/	02:05
GeneralAntilles	g	02:05
jott	lcuk: make a downloadable archive :)	02:05
jott	or point them to archive.org ;)	02:06
* GeneralAntilles chuckles at the Windows user talking about the Linux way. :P		02:06
jott	lcuk: problem is that there are old and possibly wrong information in it.	02:06
jott	lcuk: and no one cares to work on it.	02:06
lcuk	it shouldnt need to: what ideally will happen is google should start to give results for 8x0 from the new wiki	02:06
GeneralAntilles	Definitely wrong information	02:06
GeneralAntilles	Ideally, but doesn't right now.	02:06
lcuk	good jott, it should be lower in the rankings but no1 said it has to die	02:06
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, we're not talking whole-hog deletions.	02:07
jott	lcuk: some time you have to move along :)	02:07
lcuk	once it goes off the google front page for normal 8x0 queries the problem will solve itself	02:07
lcuk	agreed	02:07
GeneralAntilles	I just want to kill some stuff that doesn't have any useful info not covered by the new article and is just getting in the way with lots of wrong info.	02:07
jott	lcuk: and that's why stuff from the old wiki is moved to the new one.	02:07
jott	lcuk: because there atleast the slight hope of improvement exists.	02:07
lcuk	no jott, thats why the new wiki was given license to cleanup and kill all the old stuff	02:08
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lcuk	purely because the old wiki still existed	02:08
lcuk	the problem here is people are clinging onto the old bad information	02:08
jott	yes - so just remove it.	02:08
lcuk	we need to push the new wiki instead of complaining about whats past	02:08
lcuk	google will adapt if its pushed	02:08
jott	no point in keeping wrong information on an official place.	02:08
jott	move it to crapload.org so it's not affiliated with maemo.org	02:09
jott	google often fails..	02:10
lcuk	just a move itself would work..	02:10
GeneralAntilles	I'm gonna get with dneary and see about killing the shitty pages.	02:10
lcuk	nit_history.com	02:10
lcuk	or similar	02:10
jott	archive.org	02:10
jott	should be enough :)	02:10
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jott	http://web.archive.org/web/20070507003026/http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ stored for "eternity" :P	02:11
jott	just drop it from maemo.org and move along..	02:11
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jott	if there is something important in it then it should be in the new wiki anyway.	02:12
jott	everything else is just pure bs.	02:12
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andrewfblack	hey	02:14
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GeneralAntilles	The old flashing pages need to be killed.	02:14
GeneralAntilles	The old root articles need to be killed.	02:14
GeneralAntilles	Where are the people with this kind of access when you need them. . . .	02:14
andrewfblack	lol	02:15
jott	i think x-fade should not be allowed to take vacations in the next year :P	02:15
GeneralAntilles	~jott++	02:15
GeneralAntilles	~jott++	02:15
GeneralAntilles	~jott++	02:15
GeneralAntilles	~karma jott	02:15
andrewfblack	what irc program do you guys use on the tablets	02:15
infobot	jott has karma of 2	02:15
GeneralAntilles	~karma jott	02:15
GeneralAntilles	~xchat	02:16
andrewfblack	mibbit sucks on tablet	02:16
infobot	i guess xchat is an IRC client for unix and windows at http://www.xchat.org or http://www.silverex.org/news/	02:16
jott	spam protection probably..	02:16
GeneralAntilles	It's in Extras-devel.	02:16
andrewfblack	ok i'll take a look at it	02:16
GeneralAntilles	lol	02:16
GeneralAntilles	My sister's out back blowing up water bottles with HCl and aluminum foil.	02:17
jaska	o.O	02:17
lcuk	jott, ok then, pull the plug. off with its head so to speak	02:18
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andrewfblack	is extra dlevel not on gronmayer?	02:19
GeneralAntilles	andrewfblack, forget gronmayer	02:21
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GeneralAntilles	~extras	02:21
infobot	extras is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	02:21
GeneralAntilles	There's a .install there.	02:21
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GeneralAntilles	So, who wants to volunteer to do an SSH article? :P	02:23
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GeneralAntilles	Should cover key setup, security, x-forwarding and xauth	02:24
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nikosapi	ling long pagoda	03:24
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darkblue_B	so.. flashing a N800 from linux.. I am looking at DIABLO 4.2008.23-14	03:25
darkblue_B	good? stick with stable?	03:25
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darkblue_B	(I listed with dpkg --list just now for what is there already.. 2007 stable I think.. June?	03:26
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GAN800	23-14 is old.	03:32
GAN800	Upgrade to 30-2	03:32
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AFBN810	hey	03:50
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darkblue_B	30-2 ??? where do I fnd that? GAN800	04:03
GAN800	Open Application manager, go to the 'Check for updates' section and tap the little rotating arrow in the bottom right of the toolbar.	04:03
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* GeneralAntilles wonders why the information in the topic title is relevant. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=215573#post215573		04:10
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moontiger	GA: cos its a brilliant thread laughs	04:35
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crashanddie	http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/4903/screenshot02do3.png	04:45
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lionel_	Has anyone else had problems flashing an N800 with the RX-34_DIABLO_4.20	06:31
lionel_	08.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin image?	06:31
lionel_	I posted to this channel earlier today and got no response. Looking back in the IRC log, it looks like at least one other person (handle = hub) ran into the same problem.	06:33
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lionel__	Their solution, and the one that worked for me, was to ditch the RX-34_DIABLO image and instead go with RX-34_2008SE.2.2007 ...	06:35
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darkblue_B	huh.. I just flashed with the RX 34 2008SE image	07:07
darkblue_B	seems to be going well.. from 64bit linux	07:08
GeneralAntilles	upgrade process consists of two commands: apt-get remove mplayer apt-get install mplayer	07:08
* GeneralAntilles facepalm		07:08
GeneralAntilles	You gotta wonder about some people.	07:08
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* ShadowJK wonders if that works better for people mixing/changing random repos back and forth		07:10
darkblue_B	the backup it found appareantly has some of my settings.. I had forgotten about.. so far so good	07:11
darkblue_B	now to compare dpkg list	07:12
darkblue_B	I had python and apache going	07:12
GeneralAntilles	I don't get why people are obsessed with filling their catalogs with tons and tons of craptastic repositories.	07:12
darkblue_B	decentralized repos.. its inevitable, dont you think?	07:13
GeneralAntilles	Only decentralized because of assholes insisting on opening a new one for each and every damn package.	07:15
GeneralAntilles	There's one repo you need, and that's Extras.	07:15
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darkblue_B	ok.. so ssh.. how does this go..	07:17
darkblue_B	openSSH is in te installable apps list	07:18
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GeneralAntilles	Of course it is, it's in Extras.	07:20
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darkblue_B	hmm my old dpkg list shows gnu readline	07:30
darkblue_B	I wonder what the package name is for that	07:30
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darkblue_B	and it says cant stat package xxx from http://xarchive.garage.maemo.org chinook/user packages	07:34
darkblue_B	this is diablo	07:34
darkblue_B	perhaps I need to expunge some list of repos	07:34
timeless	gan: how do people reply to bugmail?	07:36
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darkblue_B	so where do I get apache, python and gnu readline?	07:38
timeless	yuck :)	07:38
timeless	python should come from extras ...	07:38
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timeless	and i'd hope readline would too	07:38
timeless	(if they don't come from tools/sdk)	07:38
darkblue_B	timeless: why yuck?	07:39
timeless	why do you want to run a full web server on a poor mobile device?	07:40
darkblue_B	well I suppose I dont have to	07:40
darkblue_B	I am writing a system in python right now for work	07:41
timeless	ssh+screen	07:41
darkblue_B	python has its own, well several, ways of responding to http	07:41
darkblue_B	I dont care for apache..	07:41
darkblue_B	as I recall, someone told me to install canola and I will get python	07:42
darkblue_B	yep. .canola2	07:43
timeless	yeah it will...	07:43
darkblue_B	I'm confused abou tthis chinook vs diablo bit	07:44
darkblue_B	looks like plenty of things are coming from sonething called chinook	07:44
darkblue_B	I sure apprecaite that backup..	07:44
darkblue_B	it found it and it worked	07:44
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timeless	chinook is the old version	07:46
timeless	ideally the versioning is such that stuff in diablo is newer	07:46
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timeless	and therefore you should get stuff from diablo if someone bothers to make a package for it	07:46
darkblue_B	??	07:47
darkblue_B	so I neeed to add the dablo repo?	07:48
darkblue_B	I dont see it	07:48
darkblue_B	only the General's Extras	07:48
timeless	if you're running diablo	07:49
timeless	then you should have/add diablo repos	07:49
darkblue_B	yes...	07:49
darkblue_B	so I just went to edit the catalog details fro maemo Extras	07:49
darkblue_B	it says "Distribution: chinook"	07:49
darkblue_B	that may be leftover	07:49
darkblue_B	maybe i should change that	07:49
timeless	what version of the os are you running?	07:50
darkblue_B	I just flashed with RX 34 2008SE	07:51
darkblue_B	and I installed canola2.. saw a bunch of chinook things come in	07:52
darkblue_B	it had found a backup file and used it..	07:53
timeless	2008se?	07:53
darkblue_B	yes	07:53
timeless	se usually means sales edition...	07:53
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darkblue_B	well thats what I found on line	07:53
darkblue_B	ohhh I have the RX 34 DIABLO sitting here	07:54
darkblue_B	not on the right machine	07:54
darkblue_B	hmmm	07:54
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darkblue_B	perhaps I should do this again	07:54
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darkblue_B	coolness.. the backup file worked again	08:04
darkblue_B	now I am in Diablo	08:05
darkblue_B	now it wants to download a bunch of apps auto magically	08:06
darkblue_B	I havent touched the repos.. but its convenient to just say yes	08:06
darkblue_B	I suppose it will do the right thing (?)	08:08
darkblue_B	well I said cancel	08:08
darkblue_B	and went through the repos list and changed everything that said chinook to diablo	08:09
darkblue_B	it wants to put th eOS update in	08:09
darkblue_B	4.2008.30-2	08:10
darkblue_B	ok to that	08:10
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tank-man	yes	08:11
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* timeless sighs		08:18
timeless	could we please ban *@plenware.com from bugs.maemo.org?	08:18
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hachi	anyone know if the mail app can be told to not run in the background?	08:48
hachi	I like it... but I really wish I could disable it from running at times	08:48
timeless	technically...	08:50
timeless	not sure if it'll really work if you do it :)	08:50
timeless	hachi: can you "define" times?	08:50
timeless	like, should it not run if you're "offline"?	08:51
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hachi	when I so choose	08:51
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hachi	as in, when I pick the option that says "stop running this bloody process in the background"	08:51
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* timeless ignores hachi		08:53
darkblue_B	now I have root login	08:53
hachi	gee, thanks	08:53
hachi	ask me to define something, and then treat me like dirt	08:54
darkblue_B	but when I login as user, I dont know my passwd	08:54
darkblue_B	is there a default user passwd or something?	08:54
timeless	there isn't really a password for user	08:54
timeless	it's just not supposed to accept remote logins	08:54
darkblue_B	really? the previous one did	08:54
timeless	afaik there isn't...	08:55
darkblue_B	ok.. I guess I dont care	08:55
hachi	anyone else have a clue about the mail application?	08:55
darkblue_B	timeless: thx	08:55
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timeless	http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/base-passwd-3.5.11.osso4/debian/patches/01user.dpatch#11	09:01
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timeless	fwiw	09:01
timeless	http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/base-passwd-3.5.11.osso4/debian/patches/01user.dpatch?mark=20#11	09:01
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moontiger	hachi: yah ... i think it sucks	09:03
moontiger	:)	09:03
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hachi	is that what I said that was wrong?	09:05
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moontiger	hachi: no i dont think so ... not sure if you said anything wrong ... i think most people use claws	09:13
timeless	note that claws can't be backed up	09:13
timeless	and along w/ pidgin, it's a fairly good way to make the backup app break	09:13
aquatix	tar cf claws.tar ~/.claws-mail	09:14
aquatix	or something :)	09:14
timeless	oh sure... and leave the rest of the device unable to back up	09:14
aquatix	?	09:14
aquatix	put the tar in a card or in your documents or something	09:14
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aquatix	if you leave if in the home, backup will break?	09:14
timeless	it's not the tarbal	09:15
timeless	it's the conf files for claws and purple	09:15
timeless	they're written to break backup :)	09:15
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aquatix	erm, worked here	09:15
timeless	aquatix: and note that the claws one at least is broken in 3.5	09:15
aquatix	backup didn't barf or whatever, and restored fine	09:15
timeless	they promised a fix in "next"	09:15
timeless	um... i doubt it	09:15
aquatix	and i use claws 3.5	09:15
timeless	since i talked to their devs	09:15
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timeless	the backup won't restore everything	09:16
aquatix	i reflashed my tablet with diablo when the last update broke	09:16
aquatix	and it restored as good as everything to me	09:16
aquatix	[i didn't restore everything, not the multimedia stuff etc]	09:16
aquatix	no glitches	09:16
aquatix	but maybe full restore fails then	09:16
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moontiger	timeless: i dont use my n810 as my main email store anyways so i dont mind if it gets toasted in the event of a backup	09:17
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hachi	the last version of claws I used couldn't handle multiple accounts concurrently in the interface	09:17
hachi	have they changed that recently?	09:18
timeless	moontiger: suit yourself	09:18
moontiger	hachi: i wish they would make modest usable as i dont really like claws	09:18
moontiger	but claws works	09:18
moontiger	mostly	09:18
timeless	the bigger problem is purple, which basically breaks backup entirely	09:18
timeless	(backup is the buggy app in that case)	09:18
moontiger	whereas modest .... ummmmm .... sucks	09:18
timeless	can you guys be more detailed than "sucks"?	09:19
hachi	'you guys' ?	09:19
timeless	whichever of you is going to say that it sucks	09:19
moontiger	timeless: no user configurable fonts ... viewing different accounts is ridiculous ... changing to different account is as dumb	09:19
hachi	I like it	09:19
moontiger	and... the notification thing gets really annoying	09:19
moontiger	and ... the fact that i cant tell it to stop damn checking my email	09:20
* moontiger checks her notes...		09:20
hachi	I just want to make it so that when I configure it, it doesn't run all the time	09:20
moontiger	thats it for now i think	09:20
moontiger	after those i get bored and uninstall it again	09:20
hachi	I'm basically cornered into configuring it, and then letting it run 24/7, or disable/delete the accounts	09:20
moontiger	hachi: thats my point ... they did so much good work on it and yet it is ruined by these small points	09:21
moontiger	i dont get it	09:21
moontiger	shakes head	09:22
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konttori	moontiger: perhaps you could contact pvanhoof about the issues.	09:24
timeless	wow, i have 3 bugs numbered 1698 in my mailbox	09:24
timeless	that's kinda odd	09:24
timeless	(mozilla, maemo, claws)	09:24
konttori	he's usually in freenode from around 9 CET	09:24
konttori	(the guy behind tinymail and also the main developer of modest - well used to be the main developer for modest, he's working mostly on tracker at the moment)	09:25
aquatix	timeless: g	09:26
* konttori bases that solely on his commit history to tracker :)		09:26
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GeneralAntilles	timeless, hitting "reply all" on the bugmail notices or something. I get a lot of "Re: [Bug #blah]..." messages from people.	09:28
timeless	hrm	09:28
moontiger	konttori ... i did before and got nowhere so i just stopped using it until either it gets fixed or i get enough time to try to fix it myself ... i respect whoever worked on it ... i just disagree with the design decisions they made	09:28
GeneralAntilles	moontiger, so, uh, what you're saying is that you think MORE people use a hard-to-find 3rd-party client than the built-in client that ships on EVERY DEVICE?	09:29
GeneralAntilles	Right then. . . .	09:29
moontiger	GA... no ... i was referring to people here mostly ... and i did say "i think"	09:29
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GeneralAntilles	timeless, +1 on banning @plenware.com. . . .	09:30
konttori	Yeah, the font issue is a big one on the platform. Did you at any point consider just using a theme with the font and font size you like more?	09:30
moontiger	konttori ... i do but modest completely ignoes it	09:30
GeneralAntilles	konttori, that wont changed Modest's fonts in the message window.	09:30
konttori	Really? You must be kidding!	09:30
konttori	I must check that out.	09:30
konttori	sounds really truly horrific.	09:31
GeneralAntilles	I'd be OK if reducing font size with the zoom keys would stick	09:31
GeneralAntilles	But you have to change everytime you open a new message	09:31
GeneralAntilles	I actually really like Modest, myself.	09:31
konttori	how about when you click on the next / previous button?	09:31
moontiger	konttori: as it stands right now i think it is horrific (to borrow your expression)	09:31
* konttori also likes modest		09:31
GeneralAntilles	But it does have a few quirks that seem to stem from taking the whole "keep it as small as possible" way too far.	09:31
* moontiger would love to like modest and keeps trying		09:31
GeneralAntilles	konttori, retained with next/previous.	09:32
konttori	but then again, I use it to read my personal email, which means that I open it once or twice a day and mostly click on the next button	09:32
GeneralAntilles	But I don't always read my mail consecutively.	09:32
konttori	GA: that explains why I haven't noticed the issue myself	09:32
konttori	Or have been bothered by it.	09:32
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GeneralAntilles	The multiple accounts behavior is really baffling	09:34
GeneralAntilles	and actually seems to have gotten worse than I remember from previously.	09:34
timeless	heh	09:34
GeneralAntilles	Having to switch from 2 levels down in the menu is just craziness	09:35
* timeless considers finding mailboxes to test w/ modest		09:35
* timeless considers finding food		09:35
* timeless decides to send a gmail instead		09:35
XTL	To the orbit?	09:37
GeneralAntilles	Modest will die on big IMAP accounts, too.	09:37
timeless	hrm, btw..	09:39
timeless	what would you guys say to having the maemo.org logo on mxr.maemo.org float:right instead of being left or center?	09:39
timeless	btw, what's the name of the modest process that runs in the background?	09:39
timeless	is it /usr/bin/modest ?	09:39
* timeless coughs		09:39
timeless	i think my smallest imap account is ~10,000 messages	09:39
timeless	and that's one i don't use	09:39
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timeless	my inbox has 190,047 unread conversations :)	09:39
hachi	mine top out around 10k, and I just archive the junk yearly	09:40
timeless	i thought they were supposed to have limits to deal w/ big inboxes	09:40
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timeless	i actually archived mail from my personal gmail box yesterday for the first time ever	09:40
GeneralAntilles	/usr/bin/modest	09:41
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konttori	modest works pretty well on 10k messages still	09:41
konttori	haven't tested on bigger ones though	09:41
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timeless	from memory, i think modest is basically instantiated by some dbuss client	09:41
konttori	initial db build though takes a bit of time	09:41
timeless	if you either whack the dbus client or the dbus contract	09:41
timeless	you could probably get the daemon to go away	09:41
timeless	possibly w/o seriously harming the ui	09:42
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XTL	My inbox is squeaky clean, usually.	09:42
timeless	in the previous architecture, there was a task navigator client which was partially responsible for the polling of mail	09:42
timeless	so it's conceivable that it's what's responsible for polling modest	09:42
timeless	in which case, you could try whacking it first :)	09:42
aquatix	inbox is clean, but 196466 messages in the rest of my imap account :)	09:43
aquatix	modest generally has some troubles with it	09:43
* timeless chuckles		09:44
timeless	your mailbox is small :)	09:44
XTL	Never tried to do message counts.	09:44
XTL	Might be interesting :)	09:44
aquatix	XTL: claws-mail gives a total in the system tray on my machine	09:44
aquatix	[desktop]	09:44
aquatix	well, in the mouse-over of the system tray icon actually, but you get the point	09:45
GeneralAntilles	m-vo's idea to make Modest and MicroB uninstallable could quiet some people.	09:45
timeless	um, you can't uninstall them?	09:45
timeless	they're just packages	09:45
GeneralAntilles	Not without removing osso-software-version	09:45
timeless	uninstall the meta package, and then uninstall two or so core packages for microb	09:45
GeneralAntilles	and never getting SSU updates again.	09:45
timeless	yeah well, osso-software-version will have to be uninstalled	09:45
timeless	actually, wait	09:46
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: well, i kinda like modest	09:46
timeless	anyone here actually understand how debian alternatives works?	09:46
aquatix	but it's sluggy [at least to start] here	09:46
aquatix	timeless: somewhat	09:46
GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3602	09:46
timeless	because i could trivially write a package that changed the depends for osso-software-version	09:46
timeless	but the question is how to deal w/ upgrades	09:46
aquatix	or create a dummy package that provides `modest'	09:47
XTL	that's what I'd have said	09:47
timeless	hrm,	09:47
timeless	yeah, well...	09:47
timeless	providing modest isn't such a problem	09:48
GeneralAntilles	MicroB and Modest would be upgraded just like any other application package.	09:48
timeless	providing microb is	09:48
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: yeah, i like that idea	09:48
timeless	there are a bunch of things that use microb's functionality	09:49
timeless	e.g. the tutorial	09:49
timeless	and hopefully there will be more in the future	09:49
timeless	if you "provide" microb (* really microb-engine+tablet-browser-daemon)	09:49
GeneralAntilles	I'm not really overly concerned about MicroB and Modest, but it'd definitely be nice to be able to cleanly and easily remove the commercial installers, bundled documentation, and bundled media for good without having to delete it again with every SSU push.	09:49
timeless	and someone properly depends on them, then when they install, they're a broken app	09:50
atul	Hi all, I am creating one database in using my application and writing some values on to it but while writing in to it giving me error messsage like "Can't execute: attempt to write a readonly database"	09:50
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XTL	Wrap dillo :)	09:50
aquatix	:)	09:50
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timeless	xtl: have fun	09:51
timeless	the api you need to implement is quasi public	09:51
aquatix	timeless: why would you want to get of microb though?	09:51
timeless	but the daemon stuff isn't open source	09:51
timeless	aquatix: get _rid_ of ?	09:51
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aquatix	er, yeah	09:51
* aquatix is still waking up		09:51
GeneralAntilles	aquatix, presumably to save space if you really don't need a browser, or to switch to an alternative once they actually become usable.	09:51
aquatix	brain-to-irc adapter isn't optimal yet	09:51
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: fair enouhg	09:52
aquatix	*enough	09:52
timeless	gan: "it won't work"	09:52
GeneralAntilles	aquatix, I can't imagine being in either of those situations myself, though. ;)	09:52
timeless	aquatix: in theory for the reasons gan suggests	09:52
XTL	atul: You're not giving much information	09:52
timeless	in practice, i'd never do it	09:52
timeless	and anyone who tries will regret it	09:52
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timeless	it's like fighting the awesomebar	09:52
timeless	eventually you'll stop fighting and learn to love it	09:52
GeneralAntilles	Ha	09:52
XTL	Best guess would be that the error message is right :)	09:52
* moontiger fought the awesome bar to start with		09:52
aquatix	timeless: i didn't even fight it	09:53
atul	XTL, am using Sqlite as back-edn data base	09:53
timeless	there's a great /. comment for that	09:53
moontiger	atul: what are you trying to do?	09:53
GeneralAntilles	"They can't handle awesome of THAT magnitude!"	09:53
aquatix	i was a bit baffled the first few times i used it, but it adapted to me	09:53
aquatix	which is good :)	09:53
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GeneralAntilles	Everything Firefox pretty much pisses me off these days.	09:53
moontiger	GA: how so?	09:53
GeneralAntilles	I don't use Windows machines anymore	09:54
aquatix	i think fx3 works quite fine	09:54
aquatix	default browser for me	09:54
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aquatix	GeneralAntilles: so?	09:54
moontiger	i use FF3 on all my machines	09:54
GeneralAntilles	and there are plenty of faster, better integrated, less irritating browsers available for OS X.	09:54
aquatix	i use it as default linux browser	09:54
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aquatix	ah, osx	09:54
* timeless shrugs		09:54
timeless	i can't use any good browsers on osx	09:54
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: which do you use btw?	09:54
GeneralAntilles	Firefox is just SLOW on all of my PPC machines for some reason.	09:54
timeless	so i don't want to hear about any of them :)	09:54
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aquatix	timeless: get a mac dammit ;)	09:55
timeless	they all suck (for dropping support for 10.3) :)	09:55
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timeless	aquatix: i have one!	09:55
timeless	that's the problem	09:55
GeneralAntilles	aquatix, 2x2.5GHz G5 with Leopard	09:55
timeless	i have panther 1.6ghz g5	09:55
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: and you're using Safari?	09:55
* aquatix has none		09:55
* GeneralAntilles starts fundraising for the "Let's Launch Copies of Leopard Out of a Cannon at timeless" campaign.		09:56
GeneralAntilles	aquatix, OmniWeb.	09:56
GeneralAntilles	I could also use Safari	09:56
aquatix	ooh, an omniweb user	09:56
timeless	gan: omniweb from 5.x+ was webkit	09:56
GeneralAntilles	Or, hell, Camino if I had to pick something Gecko-based.	09:56
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GeneralAntilles	I really like OmniWeb's tab system.	09:56
* timeless preferred omniweb when they had their own engine		09:56
* timeless regretted not buying it		09:56
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GeneralAntilles	I was glad for OmniWeb 4 back in the IE 5.5 days.	09:57
GeneralAntilles	Came back to it about a year ago.	09:57
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* GeneralAntilles doesn't feel like having to use XP to update the HAVA box.		10:00
aquatix	but, it's revolutionary!	10:01
* timeless cries		10:01
GeneralAntilles	Wish they'd just provide a web interface or something.	10:01
timeless	i really should have made a bookmark to that slashdot comment	10:01
timeless	it's impossible to find	10:01
GeneralAntilles	It's fun watching TV on the tablet, though.	10:01
aquatix	[sorry, was the first word i noticed googling that acronym]	10:01
GeneralAntilles	http://myhava.com	10:02
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: yeah, that's where the quote came from	10:02
GeneralAntilles	timeless, things you want to find usually are. :P	10:02
GeneralAntilles	aquatix, ah.	10:02
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: it's like slingbox	10:03
GeneralAntilles	But with tablet support!	10:03
aquatix	butbutbut, slingbox runs linux!	10:03
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aquatix	GeneralAntilles: do you need a client on your tablet?	10:04
aquatix	or does it produce a stream?	10:04
GeneralAntilles	aquatix, client	10:04
GeneralAntilles	Although you can get to it with VLC	10:04
GeneralAntilles	RTSP stream	10:04
GeneralAntilles	So presumably you could latch onto that somehow.	10:04
GeneralAntilles	But that doesn't give you control of the IR blaster.	10:04
aquatix	hm, nice	10:05
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* timeless gives up		10:05
timeless	hey, how does suggests work"?	10:07
timeless	if you have Foo 1.1 installed	10:07
timeless	and Bar 1.1 installed	10:07
timeless	and you have MetaBaz 1.1 installed and it suggests Foo 1.1, Bar 1.1, Py 1.1	10:07
timeless	and you see MetaBaz 1.2 available	10:07
timeless	and it suggests 1.2 of Foo, Bar and Py	10:07
timeless	what happens if you try to install MetaBaz?	10:08
moontiger	timeless: is that your website?	10:08
timeless	?	10:08
GeneralAntilles	timeless, Application manager doesn't do anything about suggests.	10:08
moontiger	webwizardry etc etc	10:09
timeless	i don't run my own servers :) webwizardr.net and viper.haque.net and timeless.justdave.net are all loaned to me by friends :)	10:10
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timeless	and typos are mine :)	10:10
aquatix	time to catch a train	10:10
moontiger	but you do all the coding etc yes?	10:10
aquatix	laters	10:10
timeless	um, webwizardry.net does a lot of unrelated stuff	10:10
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GeneralAntilles	Bye, aquatix	10:11
timeless	historically a bunch of us used it to build mozillas	10:11
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timeless	atm i mostly use it as an ssh portal for irc	10:11
timeless	viper is where i host my blog and a mailbox i never read :)	10:11
timeless	timeless.justdave.net basically hosts mxr.maemo.org which is essentially a hosted application	10:11
aquatix	laters all	10:11
moontiger	cool :)	10:11
timeless	very little stuff actually is developed there	10:11
timeless	mostly it's developed on mxr-test.konigsberg.mozilla.org and swift(@work)	10:12
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moontiger	thats neat	10:14
GeneralAntilles	This seems a little small and pointless to justify its own article http://wiki.maemo.org/Mount_a_USB_CDROM_drive	10:14
moontiger	so you do dev work for a living too?	10:14
* GeneralAntilles wonders where he should put it.		10:14
XTL	Some general usb host mode page?	10:15
GeneralAntilles	That'd be https://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode	10:15
XTL	Makes sense to me. Perhaps a section..	10:16
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Everything_about_CDMA-like_Providers_%28Verizon%2C_Sprint%29_and_DUN	10:16
XTL	Is there a page about keyboards?	10:16
GeneralAntilles	That seems largely pointless.	10:16
GeneralAntilles	Doesn't the operator setup wizard handle all that?	10:17
GeneralAntilles	XTL, not yet, want to make one? :D	10:17
XTL	Just bt, it seems.	10:17
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XTL	I thought there's another common item that could go on a usb page. Then again, the bt keyb stuff is on its own page.	10:18
GeneralAntilles	Tips on avoiding having your operator detect ToS violations seems like a bad topic for the maemo.rog wiki to cover.	10:18
timeless	heh	10:18
XTL	:)	10:18
* GeneralAntilles deletes.		10:18
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Enabling_DUN_on_Windows_Mobile_5_and_6	10:18
XTL	"How to avoid billing issues" sounded more exciting than it was	10:19
GeneralAntilles	Not entirely a Maemo topic	10:19
timeless	gan: http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Whatlinkshere/Everything_about_CDMA-like_Providers_(Verizon%2C_Sprint)_and_DUN	10:19
GeneralAntilles	Probably better served by a google search	10:19
GeneralAntilles	Or just installing PAN-support. . . .	10:19
timeless	http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Everything_about_CDMA-like_Providers_(Verizon%2C_Sprint)_and_DUN&action=edit	10:19
timeless	You do not have permission to do that, for the following reason:	10:19
timeless	Your user name or IP address has been blocked.	10:19
timeless	The block was made by dneary. The reason given is Anonymous contributions over HTTP restricted..	10:19
XTL	timeless: how about https?	10:19
timeless	is it possible to fix the error to say	10:20
timeless	"you are not logged in, perhaps you should log in first"	10:20
XTL	Might be a bit more friendly. (https works, though)	10:20
timeless	yeah well...	10:20
timeless	that too	10:20
GeneralAntilles	timeless, not without nasty mediawiki hacks.	10:20
timeless	grr	10:20
timeless	what about changing the edit links to be https?	10:20
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I'm in favor of using MediaWiki's permissions to properly ban anonymouse edits.	10:21
timeless	you can't seriously tell me that that would be hard?	10:21
GeneralAntilles	anonymous*	10:21
GeneralAntilles	Well, I suppose I could change the ban reason.	10:21
GeneralAntilles	One sec.	10:21
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* timeless is confused		10:22
timeless	i'm using https	10:22
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timeless	it's letting me try to edit the page	10:22
timeless	but it has a 'log in' link at the top	10:22
GeneralAntilles	You can edit over https anonymously.	10:22
* GeneralAntilles really wishes MediaWiki had an admin control panel.		10:22
timeless	ok, that makes a load of sense	10:23
* timeless shakes head		10:23
* XTL wishes there was something that stopped people from using mediawiki. And php.		10:23
timeless	and wikis!	10:23
timeless	ok, i give up	10:23
timeless	trying to find the previous version of a deled page is apparently hard	10:23
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GeneralAntilles	timeless, OK, here's the issue. Anonymous edits over http show up as by "127.0.0.1" because of some proxy weirdness.	10:25
GeneralAntilles	So you can't ban IPs specifically	10:25
GeneralAntilles	which is problematic because you get spammers (who seem to come from the same IP often enough).	10:26
GeneralAntilles	The bug on that is a WONTFIX, so we're banning 127.0.0.1, which effectively bans all anonymous edits over http.	10:26
GeneralAntilles	You CAN edit anonymously over https, though, because we get a real IP for users doing that.	10:26
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I'm in favor of banning ALL anonymous edits, but there wasn't consensus for that when the discussion last came up.	10:27
GeneralAntilles	So here we are.	10:27
timeless	https://wiki.maemo.org/Enabling_DUN_on_Windows_Mobile_5_and_6	10:27
timeless	you've kinda broken that page by deleting 1/3 of the links	10:27
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I'm gonna delete that one too.	10:28
timeless	or maybe you deleted 2/4 of the links?	10:28
GeneralAntilles	These are old itT wiki articles that andrewfblack has been kind enough to help migrate.	10:28
GeneralAntilles	Problem is, lots of them are terrible. :\	10:28
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timeless	i hope he's not doing it by hand	10:29
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timeless	btw, is anyone going to kill the other wikis?	10:29
timeless	so many wikis, so little valuable content	10:29
GeneralAntilles	The old midgard wiki is mostly a 770-relevant archive at this point	10:30
GeneralAntilles	I need to get with dneary to go through it, though, as a lot of its articles are colliding uselessly with newer articles.	10:30
GeneralAntilles	The itT wiki is up to Reggie	10:30
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I'd like to see it deleted.	10:30
GeneralAntilles	But the itT crowd is likely to lynch me if I suggest it again.	10:30
XTL	midgard is a pretty neat name. I wonder if that scheme was kept up anywhere.	10:31
timeless	heh	10:31
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GeneralAntilles	and the 770 crowd will lynch me if I suggest deleting the midgard wiki again.	10:31
timeless	lol	10:31
XTL	So you'll have to have careful timing to get both requests out before the mob hits	10:32
GeneralAntilles	Just gotta try to mitigate their negative effect on the ease-of-access to relevant information.	10:32
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timeless	are the 770 wiki things r/w ?	10:32
GeneralAntilles	XTL, see if I can get them to kill eachother when they arrive here at the same time to kill me.	10:32
timeless	because i keep hitting r/o wikis	10:32
GeneralAntilles	midgard is locked.	10:32
timeless	which pisses me off	10:32
timeless	the content sucks	10:32
GeneralAntilles	Which is funny for a wiki	10:32
timeless	and i'd liek to fix it	10:32
XTL	indeed	10:32
timeless	(even my typos would be an improvement!)	10:33
GeneralAntilles	timeless, well, part of it is that we'd rather see any effort that might go there go into the mediawiki instead.	10:33
timeless	can you tell google NoIndex? :)	10:33
GeneralAntilles	But we didn't consider deleting the old content seriously enough when the mediawiki was just migrated midgard content.	10:33
GeneralAntilles	timeless, can we? That'd help a lot.	10:33
timeless	yeah	10:33
timeless	a couple of ways	10:33
timeless	one is w/ robots.txt	10:33
timeless	another is w/ their site thingy	10:34
timeless	i can't remember how it works	10:34
GeneralAntilles	Now that mediawiki actually has some useful content, some midgard pages need to be deleted.	10:34
timeless	but probably Agent: * Disallow: /community/*	10:34
timeless	or something like that	10:34
GeneralAntilles	Like I said, I'll be running through the list with dneary when he gets back from vacation.	10:34
timeless	https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/docs/en/about.html	10:35
GeneralAntilles	Now I want to figure out what's actually happening with the maemo.org layout.	10:35
GeneralAntilles	So I can decide whether or not I want to try to fix the broken "maemo.org" mediawiki style.	10:35
* GeneralAntilles bookmarks.		10:36
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GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:Midgard_wiki <- those are the pages that need attention	10:37
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moontiger	timeless: that works for the bots who respect robots.txt	10:40
moontiger	other will ignore it	10:40
GeneralAntilles	I need more good overview pages like this: http://wiki.maemo.org/USB	10:42
GeneralAntilles	Somebody want to volunteer to do one for SSH or VNC? :)	10:42
moontiger	GA: i would be happy to ... just the overview stuff and links?	10:46
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GeneralAntilles	moontiger, not a lot of useful SSH or VNC articles at the moment, but, yeah.	10:46
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GeneralAntilles	This will likely be a good jumping off point: http://wiki.maemo.org/Access_a_linux_pc_desktop_from_an_Internet_Tablet_using_VNC_and_SSH	10:47
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moontiger	ummmmm whats wrong with that page?	10:48
moontiger	i have to get some sleep now but i'll talk more with you tomorrow about it if thats ok? :)	10:50
GeneralAntilles	It's poorly formatted, poorly written, filled with lots of cruft information and generally poor quality.	10:50
GeneralAntilles	yeah, no rush. ;)	10:50
GeneralAntilles	http://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth	10:50
GeneralAntilles	Feel free to red-link pages which should exist.	10:50
Jaffa__	Morning, all	10:50
GeneralAntilles	Hey, Jaffa.	10:51
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GeneralAntilles	lol: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3163#c1	10:54
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XTL	<3 plenware	11:01
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* GAN800 wonders what, exactly, they're planning to release on Maemo. . . .		11:02
GAN800	s/release/unleash/	11:02
lbt	GeneralAntilles: maybe setup a 'Connectivity' meta page? wifi, usb, ssh, vnc, telnet, PChost, linuxhost...	11:03
XTL	Category?	11:03
GAN800	lbt, also sounds like a pla,	11:03
GAN800	XTL, that _could_ be better.	11:03
GAN800	That's at least easier and more flexible	11:04
XTL	Mediawiki also has those boxes, doesn't it	11:04
GAN800	If less descriptive.	11:04
lbt	but it's front-page linkable... https://wiki.maemo.org/Connectivity	11:04
lbt	and it's a wiki - move or delete it if it doesn't work :)	11:04
Jaffa__	GAN800: who/what are plenware?	11:05
GAN800	Category:Connectivity is also linkable.	11:05
GAN800	Jaffa__, some Finnish company that just opened an office in China.	11:05
GAN800	http://www.plenware.com	11:05
lbt	Category:Connectivity won't have red links...	11:06
GAN800	lbt, true enough.	11:06
XTL	Should it?	11:06
XTL	I think categories are useful for seeing what there is, not what's missing.	11:07
GAN800	Just do both for now, I suppose.	11:07
lbt	exactly - eventually convert them	11:07
XTL	Of course a main conn page can be in the category :9	11:07
XTL	There might not be a neat way to get away from maintaining a list that can be inferred plus a list of what's missing.	11:08
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GAN800	Getting these basic topics covered would really be helpful.	11:09
XTL	Unless you make the connectivity page manually list missing topics and have a category box if those are available	11:09
GAN800	I hit USB pretty well yesterday	11:09
lbt	https://wiki.maemo.org/Connectivity	11:09
GAN800	Bluetooth I just started on	11:09
GAN800	But it needs some real articles to link to.	11:10
lbt	GAN800: I'm an architect - you need a developer ;)	11:10
GAN800	Bluetooth networking should be split into PAN and DUN.	11:10
lbt	for any real work	11:10
GAN800	and cleaned up.	11:10
GAN800	Bluetooth keyboards needs a cleanup.	11:11
GAN800	Need a Bluetooth mice article	11:11
GAN800	Need more grunt workers. . . .	11:11
XTL	army of peons	11:13
GAN800	"Work, work."	11:13
lbt	rero	11:14
lbt	OK - gotta feed the cats	11:14
GAN800	meow	11:14
GAN800	My car currently thinks she wants to go outside to talk to the opossum.	11:15
* lbt throws GAN800 a biscuit		11:15
XTL	Ours are probably taking the house apart now that the big cats are gone	11:17
liri	lbt: was just looking at that Logitech remote you told me about last night	11:20
liri	lbt: that's 399euros	11:20
liri	lbt: n8x0 + irreco gives you all that and more :)	11:20
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lbt	liri: not quite - the logitech (which is too expensive) is told what to display by the app	11:24
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lbt	irreco just throws commands at the client	11:25
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lbt	so it doesn't know what state the client is actually in	11:25
lbt	kinda like pressing the power button n times	11:25
lbt	is it on or off?	11:25
XTL	yes	11:25
lbt	it's not a cat	11:26
GAN800	on, clearly, as it's receiving ir commands. :P	11:26
lbt	no - you're just sending them	11:26
lbt	that's my point ;)	11:27
lbt	actually it's been nicked	11:27
lbt	bbiab	11:27
* GAN800 ups the default scrollbar width up another few pixels.		11:29
RST38h	heh	11:37
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konttori	GAN800: did you also widen the scrollbar pixmap?	11:46
konttori	(out of curiosity)	11:46
GeneralAntilles	konttori, way too lazy for that	11:47
GeneralAntilles	I may get around to it once I decide on a good width	11:47
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GeneralAntilles	Right now, the arrows on either end are surrounded by whitespace	11:47
GeneralAntilles	and the bar itself is repeated on the right.	11:48
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GeneralAntilles	Little wonky, but it works much better with my thumb	11:48
konttori	I've been asked to add that as a property to theme maker.	11:48
konttori	as in: scrollbar width/height	11:48
GeneralAntilles	and isn't nearly as oversized as those damn thumb scrollbars.	11:48
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Khertan_n810	hi	11:48
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GeneralAntilles	konttori, Jaffa__ and Khertan were talking about a replacement Theme control panel to tweak stuff like that.	11:49
konttori	yeah. I hear you. I also prefer to have the scrollbars about 2x wide as they are by default	11:49
konttori	sounds like a good idea to me.	11:49
konttori	otoh: then you also need to change the pixmaps anyway	11:49
Khertan_n810	konttori: add also if you can the border size of the style osso-window-*	11:49
konttori	but, I mean, on general, it sounds like a good idea	11:49
konttori	At least the previous versions had the ability to toggle it to 2 pixels	11:50
konttori	I can'	11:50
* GeneralAntilles is slowly seeding plans to have all Nokia closed-source applets replacement by much higher-quality and more-usable open-source community solutions.		11:50
Khertan_n810	generalantilles we talk about it	11:50
konttori	t remember if that is working on the current version or not	11:50
Khertan_n810	but i ve so many thing to do ...	11:50
Khertan_n810	that nothing isn done	11:50
konttori	I know the feeling	11:50
GeneralAntilles	Khertan_n810, I may be able to talk rm_you into putting it on his list. ;)	11:50
konttori	which reminds me to get back to writing documentation	11:50
wiza	has anyone else noticed that keypad on device lock could be bigger	11:51
GeneralAntilles	SInce he's gonna be doing a replacement for the Display control panel anyway.	11:51
GeneralAntilles	Yes, wiza, there's even a bug for it. ;)	11:51
Khertan_n810	why not	11:51
wiza	GeneralAntilles: good :)	11:51
wiza	GeneralAntilles: which bug, is someone working on it or...?	11:52
GeneralAntilles	wiza, search for it, I don't remember the number off-hand	11:53
Khertan_n810	huhu google has just blocked my calendar account	11:53
GeneralAntilles	It has no @nokia activity.	11:53
Khertan_n810	maybe they don t like multiple access to their api	11:53
Khertan_n810	100 concurrent request :)	11:53
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liri	lol Khertan	11:55
Khertan_n810	they just ask for captcha ...	11:57
Khertan_n810	but i still waiting unlock	11:57
Khertan_n810	is it me or listening audio drain battery fast ?	11:58
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kulve	http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2008/08/20/linux-on-arm/	13:02
XTL	Has anyone thought of making a non-candy music player like mpd work on the nit?	13:09
kulve	kilikali is non-candy	13:10
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XTL	I expect the decoding is what eats battery, but at least you could make it just do that and not race with a ui	13:10
florian	kulve: Doesn't sound that promising...	13:10
XTL	Well, that's not too bad.	13:11
Jaffa__	XTL: There are a number of mpd clients, at least	13:13
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crashanddie	I think I just went barking mad	13:32
crashanddie	My clothing disappeared	13:33
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GeneralAntilles	JUST went? :P	13:44
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* GeneralAntilles continues sewing a flag out of a large pile of clothing.		13:44
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RST38h	Is this flag also a part of maemo branding? =)	13:48
GAN800	Only when I sent a team of ninjas around the summit with branding irons with the flag on them.	13:49
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crashanddie	ok	14:33
crashanddie	that's it	14:33
crashanddie	I lost it	14:33
crashanddie	the landlord came in, and I mentioned I lost my trousers and shirt	14:33
crashanddie	we start looking everywhere	14:33
crashanddie	literally, everywhere	14:33
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crashanddie	kitchen, laundryroom, common room, he's about to open the other rooms from the other tenants to check	14:34
crashanddie	we go check one last time in my bedroom (and there's isn't a lot to hide there)	14:34
crashanddie	I pull the covers off, and we find the trousers and shirt neatly folded under a pillow	14:35
crashanddie	I have no fucking idea how it got there	14:35
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MikaT	crashanddie: maybe someone had to take the current Matrix from the backup tape, then rewind a bit and play again...	14:37
XTL	"You know when you're at a big party, at the end of it everybody's asleep, the bloke who's on speed is always hoovering"	14:38
crashanddie	yeah, but the thing is, at any point in time, my clothes never got anywhere near the damned pillow	14:38
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Stskeeps	kulve: hm, that a new Maemo base or?	14:55
Stskeeps	kulve: looks darn interesting though	14:56
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kulve	Stskeeps: not maemo based	14:57
kulve	I guess it's more for developing that using.. Definitely not for end users..	14:57
Stskeeps	ah, i just recognized your name from somewhere, thought it was nokia :) you might be interested in my bootmenu patch that adds ability for multiboot to have a /linuxrc that is executed instead of initfs's changes. I use it in Deblet myself to avoid initfs fuckery :) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22705	15:00
Stskeeps	it gets rid of the need to have initfs rm stuff on your partition, but still makes you able to talk to dsme and such	15:02
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usicow	I just got my n810 today.. whats the preferred way to play around in its shell? Use a terminal window on the n810, or install openssh and ssh into it from a deaktop?	15:08
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Stskeeps	depends on if you're a machocist or not	15:09
Stskeeps	i like ssh from a desktop since i dont like the keyboard :P	15:09
usicow	:) ok	15:10
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usicow	I guess its hard working with that little keyboard in a shell	15:10
usicow	do you have an external keyboard for the n810 too?	15:11
Stskeeps	kulve: we also have patches in Deblet for WPA/WEP encryption support, if you use the properitary umac atleast	15:11
Stskeeps	for cx3110x	15:11
Stskeeps	i got NetworkManager with mine	15:11
Stskeeps	+working	15:11
Stskeeps	(with WPA/WPA2 etc)	15:11
egypt	usicow: definitely ssh	15:12
egypt	not having pipe is a pain	15:12
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usicow	ok cool.. just flashing it to OS 2008 first, and then I'll install openssh-server	15:17
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timeless	hello world	15:23
timeless	has anyone here ever had ctrl-a in the browser location bar not work?	15:23
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timeless	egypt: try the british keylayout?	15:24
timeless	or is this the n810 hardware	15:24
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timeless	because the software vkb layouts are distinct for US/GB	15:24
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kulve	Stskeeps: I'm very interested in those.	15:29
roadies	IS there a PHP distro for maemo, to be exact an Apache PHP plugin? I have the Apache distro but its missing PHP	15:30
Stskeeps	kulve: lemme just dig it up.. sec	15:30
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usicow	Im trying to update to OS2008, but in the update wizard thing it says 'device not found'.. windows does see it though - I can browse the internal memory card.. any ideas whats going on?	15:32
usicow	I can see the USB logo	15:33
Stskeeps	kulve: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/dependancies/2.6.21-omap1/cx3110x.ko is the binary, you can test with this i guess, i'll try to see if i can find the source patches	15:33
atul	HI I am using sqlite3_open (DB, &db); when I try to wright something on run time it gives error message like "Can't execute: attempt to write a readonly database" How to resolve this problem ?	15:34
atul	HI all, For above problem I found solution of using sqlite3_open_v2(") which take SQLITE_OPEN_READWRITE flag but on maemo platform it says undefined.	15:34
Stskeeps	kulve: deblet-cx3110x.patch	15:37
Stskeeps	er	15:37
Stskeeps	kulve: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/nit2/f/deblet-cx3110x.patch	15:38
Stskeeps	i think this is the one, no warranties though	15:38
Stskeeps	looks like the correct one so	15:38
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kulve	Stskeeps: thanks	15:51
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ranit	hi, is there support for decibel on maemo dev	15:52
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Stskeeps	kulve: your audio works fully in kaze? we might borrow that solution then since that's what we're missing :)	15:54
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kulve	Stskeeps: well, not sure about the "fully" part, but at least the normal playback seemed to work	16:00
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pupnik	somebody write a nice robotron clone	16:01
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mranostay_work	hello	16:04
mranostay_work	anyone here can help me with a Maemo legacy question? what media indexer is on the Nokia images?	16:04
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usicow	is this what I should install for a termianl on the n810? osso-xterm - X Terminal Emulator for OS2008	16:32
lcuk	terminal is installed by default?	16:32
usicow	oh	16:33
usicow	ahh I see it.. cool thanks	16:33
usicow	I hate being a noob :)	16:33
lcuk	don't worry, we wont laugh at you (too much)	16:33
usicow	hehe	16:34
lcuk	ive totally forgotten what i came online for, ahhh well ill remember later	16:34
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usicow	I just installed bash2 via ssh into my n810, but in the middle of it a dialog box opened on the n810 saying that I have to issue the command bash-config to make it the default and stuff.. is there a way I can stop stuff like happening if Im ssh'ed in? Cause maybe I dont have physical access to my n810 at that time :)	16:37
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usicow	using sftp and 802.11g network I should be able to get more than 200k/s uploading to the n810 right?	16:51
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pupnik	hi usicow	16:54
usicow	hey	16:54
pupnik	never tried bash2	16:54
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usicow	ok, no worries	16:55
pupnik	but some packages require you to click on dialog boxes	16:55
pupnik	not possible to do everything via ssh	16:55
pupnik	vnc works though	16:55
usicow	shame.. but I think I can live with that :)	16:55
usicow	oh thats a good idea.. I'll install vnc	16:55
pupnik	also if you develop for the tablet	16:56
pupnik	or just want to use it from your desktop - you can install synergy to control the tablet with your pc kbd/mouse	16:56
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pupnik	makes typing on the tablet quite convenient	16:56
usicow	yeah I read about that.. you think that works pretty well?	16:56
pupnik	i wouldn't miss it	16:58
usicow	ah, ok	16:58
usicow	I got another question.. I just uploaded some mp3's via sftp into the directory /root, but I cant find where they went on the n810 if I use the file manager :) where did they go?	16:59
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pupnik	eh the file manager is not made for people like me	17:02
pupnik	it hides stuff... that makes me chuck things at a wall	17:03
pupnik	speaking of which, that's a good project - replacement filemanager and open dialog boxes	17:03
usicow	yeah,.. I can see :)	17:03
pupnik	usicow: ssh into root and ls /root	17:04
usicow	pupnik: yeah thats what I ended up doing.. I just wont make the mistake on uploading to /root again :)	17:04
usicow	I just mv'ed them to /home/user	17:04
pupnik	yeah :( or MyDocs	17:04
usicow	k	17:05
pupnik	i symlinked MyDocs to my MMC card	17:05
pupnik	that way i can store big crap and see it easily in filemanager / open dialogs	17:05
usicow	got ya	17:05
pupnik	right in Video, Audio whatever	17:05
Khertan	hi ...	17:13
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pupnik	hi Khertan	17:16
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crashanddie	anyone want to beta test a small app ? And tell me what they think of it ?	17:29
crashanddie	You'll need to install wget/libxml++/libsdl_ttf	17:30
Khertan	crashanddie > what does it do ?	17:31
crashanddie	it retrieves an XML file that is compiled every 10 minutes, containing tags about the latest news stories, and displays those. At the moment it's just about testing SDL, and the panning	17:32
crashanddie	later on, you'll be able to view the stories related to a given tag	17:33
crashanddie	Basically, RSS on steroids	17:33
Khertan	lol	17:33
usicow	pupnik: I can see vncviewer available via apt-cache search, but not the server.. can I run vnc server on the n810?	17:34
crashanddie	no one wanna try it ? :(	17:34
Khertan	RAHHHH ! i understand why i get error 400 in sync !	17:35
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Khertan	google id isn't permanent !	17:35
Khertan	huhu	17:35
Khertan	great idea	17:35
crashanddie	c'mon GeneralAntilles you're not doing anything anyway, give it a go :P	17:35
usicow	crashanddie: sorry, Im just setting my new n810 up.	17:36
crashanddie	no problem :)	17:36
crashanddie	I'm out to get some fags anyway, bbl	17:36
pupnik	i just realized that I get laid less often than i reboot computers	17:36
crashanddie	pupnik, which means you you're a well paid person	17:36
RST38h	crashanddie: please stop doing that	17:36
crashanddie	doing what ?	17:37
* RST38h shudders every time the word is used in its british meaning		17:37
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RST38h	=)	17:37
crashanddie	lol	17:37
crashanddie	well, I'm talking the right language	17:37
RST38h	true	17:37
pupnik	this is very, very wrong	17:37
crashanddie	not that slang should be considered part of the "right language"	17:38
crashanddie	bbiab	17:38
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Mace_	hm	17:39
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RST38h	~lart VT	17:41
* infobot stuffs VT into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it		17:41
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AndrewFBlack	Hey	17:46
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Italodance	lol	17:50
Italodance	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/non-free/c/canola2/	17:50
Italodance	non-free!?	17:50
usicow	I just got an error 'not enough memory in target location' when isntalling rdesktop.. why would that be?	17:50
Italodance	hi pupnik	17:51
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AndrewFBlack	usicow how much free memory do you have on your tablet?	17:52
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usicow	AndrewFBlack: if I use the df command I can see the / is 99% full	17:53
usicow	is that the problem?	17:53
\|\|cw	yup	17:53
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AndrewFBlack	usicow that would be it	17:54
usicow	hmm ok.. the only thing I put on there was 88MB of mp3's though into /home/users/MyDocs	17:55
AndrewFBlack	you installed a lot of programs?	17:55
usicow	AndrewFBlack: nah, not at all.. just bash2 I think,.. oh and skype	17:55
crashanddie	Italodance, canola2 isn't open source	17:56
crashanddie	usicow, the root filesystem is 128Mb	17:56
AndrewFBlack	usicow yeah the 88mb is alot I would move them to a card	17:56
crashanddie	usicow, n800 or n810 ?	17:56
usicow	its an n810	17:57
crashanddie	usicow, move them to the internal memory card then	17:57
usicow	ok.. Im relativly new to linux, but how can I tell what partition /home/users is on?	17:58
usicow	/home/user rather	17:59
usicow	cause thats where I had put the mp3's	17:59
Italodance	crashanddi do u have this new version?	17:59
crashanddie	Italodance, nope	17:59
crashanddie	usicow, well / is mounted on /dev/mtdblock4, so everything under it (and which is not specified in the mount table) will be mounted there	18:00
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crashanddie	usicow, so, considering /home is under /, well...	18:00
SjB	usicow you should do an apt-get clean I've notice that the apt archive dir was using all my hd space	18:01
usicow	crashanddie: ahh	18:01
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crashanddie	yeah, or just rm -rf /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb	18:01
usicow	SjB: ok I'll do that.	18:01
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cbx333	hi all	18:01
cbx333	what's the easiest way to rotate the screen....?	18:01
cbx333	does it even work?	18:01
crashanddie	yes it does	18:01
cbx333	i saw something about xrandr	18:02
cbx333	and tried to install sliderotate	18:02
cbx333	but it said it couldn't find xrandr	18:02
crashanddie	cbx333, you running diablo or chinook	18:02
crashanddie	?	18:02
cbx333	chinook I think	18:02
cbx333	how can I tell	18:02
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cbx333	it's been a while since I last flashed	18:02
usicow	with the root file system being so small doesnt everyone complain that they cant install all the programs they want?	18:02
cbx333	maybe Ishould upgrade	18:03
cbx333	crashanddie: ?	18:03
crashanddie	cbx333, well, I only tried it on diablo, and it was pretty straightforward	18:03
crashanddie	I don't know if a lot changes under chinook	18:03
cbx333	hmmm	18:03
cbx333	ok	18:03
cbx333	I'll try and get diablo tonight	18:03
crashanddie	usicow, it is possible to install the rootfs on an external memory card	18:03
* cbx333 starts a backup		18:04
crashanddie	cbx333, http://sse2.net/rotate/	18:04
crashanddie	cbx333, note the link under the "Update" section, which points to the how-to for diablo	18:04
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usicow	crashanddie: do people do that? Or is that bad for performance or something?	18:05
crashanddie	usicow, quite some people did/do it	18:05
cbx333	crashanddie: and that's the latest kernel?	18:05
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crashanddie	usicow, but it makes sense to do it on a external memory card (not the internal one), as you can change the external one, if something goes wrong (corrupt card, worn out, whatever)	18:06
usicow	crashanddie: I see ok.	18:06
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cbx333	50% backed up	18:07
cbx333	:D	18:07
crashanddie	cbx333, I followed the instructions for diablo, used the files that were provided, didn't have any problem	18:07
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cbx333	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/advanced-backlight/	18:10
cbx333	presumably you still need xrandr	18:10
crashanddie	cbx333, yes, advanced backlight only provides an easy to use interface when you have installed support for it	18:11
cbx333	ok	18:12
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usicow	Im not sure what happened, but now when I go to Catalogues in the application manager its blank :( how can I get back the default catalogues?	18:13
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usicow	damn.. it was because my root partition was full again	18:19
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usicow	is there a nice way to see how much CPU is being used?	18:37
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AndrewFBlack	usicow loadapplet shows cpu usage	18:40
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* Khertan_n810 still doesn t understand why he get reset by peer error from gdata while retrieving only one evzent !		18:50
RST38h	peer hates you!	18:50
Khertan_n810	this is like this 400 error which occur sometime	18:51
Khertan_n810	and same request work 30s later	18:51
RST38h	Meanwhile, Motorola cluster fuck continues...	18:51
Khertan_n810	does gdata is still in beta	18:52
Khertan_n810	?	18:52
Khertan_n810	1570: GtkWarning: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to allocate widget with width 720 and height -9	18:53
Khertan_n810	huhu	18:53
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GNUton	Hi there	18:57
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Khertan_n810	hi gnuton	18:58
GNUton	Hey Khertan_n810 :)	18:59
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JZA	hi how can I get some CLI for maemo	19:47
JZA	I am looking for tools such as wget	19:48
crashanddie	apt-get install wget	19:48
JZA	anyone here?	19:49
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* johnx is here		19:49
Khertan_n810	i m back	19:49
JZA	Err http://repository.maemo.org diablo/free wget 1.10.2-2osso2	19:49
JZA	Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'	19:49
JZA	Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/w/wget/wget_1.10.2-2osso2_armel.deb Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'	19:49
JZA	E: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?	19:49
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Khertan_n810	JZA: under sb ?	19:50
johnx	JZA, "works for me" (tm)	19:50
Khertan_n810	lol	19:50
JZA	Khertan_n810: sb?	19:50
johnx	sb = scratchbox	19:50
Khertan_n810	scratchbox	19:50
JZA	no I have diablo 4.0.1	19:50
Khertan_n810	so pray a bit much and try again	19:51
johnx	can you ping google.com?	19:51
JZA	yeah	19:51
johnx	and can you reach repository.maemo.org from your desktop?	19:51
JZA	ok is working now	19:51
* Khertan_n810 pray that his sync will finish in reset by peer error		19:52
johnx	I guess that's why it's a "Temporary failure" :)	19:52
JZA	btw any IRC client for diablo	19:52
crashanddie	dude	19:52
JZA	xchat didn't make it to diablo	19:52
johnx	xchat is in maemo extras	19:52
crashanddie	!google	19:52
JZA	neither pidign	19:52
crashanddie	JZA, of course they did	19:52
* johnx uses xchat on his n800		19:53
crashanddie	and I use pidgin/xchat on my n810	19:53
JZA	I used xchat on n800 for chinook	19:53
JZA	but there is no 2008 version	19:53
crashanddie	JZA, diablo AND chinook == 2008	19:53
JZA	2007 then	19:53
crashanddie	JZA, and most chinook packages are compatible with diablo	19:53
JZA	ok let me try	19:54
crashanddie	JZA, like I said, google	19:54
johnx	xchat is in the diablo extras repository	19:54
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Khertan_n810	i use it currently :)	19:56
JZA	ok this is odd my sources.list are empty	19:56
Khertan_n810	.d	19:56
johnx	maemo is not debian. :) your repos are under /etc/apt/sources.list.d/	19:57
Khertan_n810	debian use .d too	19:57
johnx	it puts base stuff in sources.list though	19:57
* Stskeeps plays with his semi-gui deblet installer		19:58
Khertan_n810	noone have the time to help me to make a better gui for mcontacts ?	19:58
* johnx catches up on the news after having been AFK for 48 hours		19:58
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm putting out a "please beta test my now more easy installer" post in some hours when i've tested i can install fully :P I made a "Install Deblet" icon that runs roxterm and uses zenity for many questions :P	20:00
johnx	very cool	20:00
johnx	I have a working install now with lxde and it's quite fast	20:00
johnx	I even use gdm	20:00
johnx	memory usage is only a couple percent and it can be swapped out easily I bet	20:00
Stskeeps	also regarding sound, Kaze (some other armel dist for n800) had some stuff that might work - i added hint to Deblet has no sound thread	20:01
AndrewFBlack	khertan_n810 I got the time if you teach me how lol	20:01
lcuk	ui design is something you can do with a piece of paper and a pen (or liqbase)	20:01
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AndrewFBlack	Well yeah I can design it but I cna't make it	20:01
Stskeeps	johnx: also with the new introduction of "linuxrc"'s into boot menu, it's possible to make things like "boot into ext2 image file" :>	20:02
Stskeeps	which is darned slow but neat	20:02
zethero1	How do i change the default application for opening video files?	20:02
johnx	Stskeeps, then we can just ship a prepared image...like before :P	20:02
johnx	zethero1, not all that easily. lookup dbus-switchboard	20:03
Stskeeps	johnx: i plan to have "Install onto a file on your MMC"	20:03
Khertan_n810	AndrewFBBlack: i just need a glade file	20:03
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JZA	Khertan so I installed the Extra repo from here but still cant find xchat	20:03
JZA	http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	20:04
JZA	neither apt-cache search xchat helped	20:05
zethero1	Anyone?	20:05
JZA	can u provide the URI of the Extra repo?	20:05
lcuk	search will only search within your setup repos	20:05
lcuk	i dont know which repo its in, i installed it months ago from an old deb i found	20:05
JZA	right, I thought I just enabled the Extra repo on that site	20:06
johnx	zethero1, look at dbus-switchboard	20:06
JZA	lcuk: so it wasn't a diablo package?	20:06
JZA	ok that might change things	20:06
lcuk	no, at the time it was a chinook beta test thing	20:06
johnx	JZA, It might be in extras-devel or something	20:06
lcuk	but i heard it got put into some maemo extras repo or another	20:06
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AndrewFBlack	Khertan_810 I'm willing to help if you want me to	20:07
Khertan_n810	extras-devel	20:07
johnx	JZA, yeah extras-devel	20:07
johnx	JZA, also use this to search for things: xchat site:repository.maemo.org	20:07
Khertan_n810	AndrewFBlack: do u know how to use glade ?	20:08
AndrewFBlack	Khertan_n810 I've never used it before but I think I will pick it up easly	20:09
Khertan_n810	:)	20:09
Ghjme	does nokia n810 have 2d acceleration?	20:09
Khertan_n810	yep ... not very difficult ... but a little boring to use ... and to make great looking gui	20:09
lcuk	Ghjme, the nokia n810 has 2d AND 3d de-acceleration	20:09
Khertan_n810	but no driver yet :)	20:10
JZA	ok that worked	20:10
Ghjme	oh	20:10
AndrewFBlack	I've made some UI before beleave it or not anything I cna do at work I consider fun lol	20:10
Khertan_n810	there is to simplify the same 3d processor than in the iphone at a lower frequency	20:10
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Khertan_n810	AndrewFBlack: can i send you the current glade file by mail ?	20:11
Ghjme	is the ui speed decent?	20:11
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AndrewFBlack	yeah andrewfblack@gmail.com	20:11
johnx	Ghjme, it depends on the app. overall it's ok, but not "really fast"	20:12
Ghjme	ok	20:12
johnx	Ghjme, was there any app you had in mind?	20:13
JZA	what abotu pidgin? I can't see pidign on extras or extra-devel	20:14
AndrewFBlack	Khertan_n810 any certain look your going for?	20:14
Ghjme	johnx: no not any specific	20:14
Khertan_n810	something that can be use without stylus :)	20:14
johnx	JZA, I guess it's only available in the chinook extras repo	20:15
JZA	johnx would it run on diablo?	20:15
JZA	I only got this repo http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/3.2/free/p/pidgin/	20:15
johnx	JZA, I would assume so	20:15
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johnx	JZA, look further down :)	20:16
AndrewFBlack	khertan_810 ok send it over when you get a chance and I'll take a look at it tonight	20:16
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JZA	right but this is 3.2 not 4.x	20:16
johnx	JZA, look. further. down. the. page.	20:16
zethero1	johnx: looks kinda complex ... But thanks for the heads up	20:16
Khertan_n810	AndrewFBlack: mail sent. thanks for your help	20:17
AndrewFBlack	no problem I'll give it a try.	20:18
Khertan_n810	i ve send you the entire project	20:18
AndrewFBlack	ok	20:18
Khertan_n810	there is also the python code	20:18
Stskeeps	johnx: you bored to check an .install file for diablo that i'm not sure works? (it doesn't -actually- install bootmenu and deblet, but it installs the installers for them)	20:18
Khertan_n810	but if you change ui it ll crash	20:18
AndrewFBlack	ok	20:19
johnx	Stskeeps, heh. I just booted to debian to work on sound :)	20:19
zethero1	Is it possible to watch video over the network?	20:19
Khertan_n810	and don t sync twice time ... it will wipe many informations of your gmail contacts	20:19
Khertan_n810	:)	20:19
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GAN800	http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org	20:19
Stskeeps	johnx: hehe, alright :)	20:19
AndrewFBlack	lol ok good to know	20:20
Khertan_n810	:)	20:20
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Khertan_n810	i wipped mine test account	20:20
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Khertan_n810	hum mcalendar can now sync multiple calendar :)	20:21
AndrewFBlack	sweet	20:21
AndrewFBlack	you started work on mtasts yet?	20:21
Khertan_n810	just need to do more test	20:21
AndrewFBlack	mtasks	20:21
Khertan_n810	tastes ? :)	20:21
Khertan_n810	mtasks already exists	20:21
AndrewFBlack	lol ok	20:21
Khertan_n810	but not very goof	20:22
Khertan_n810	good	20:22
Khertan_n810	and no sync	20:22
Khertan_n810	as there isn't google tasks	20:22
AndrewFBlack	could you sync mTasks with google Notebook?	20:22
Khertan_n810	nope ... no end date, no status	20:22
Khertan_n810	on google notebook	20:23
AndrewFBlack	how about a mNotes then :)	20:23
Khertan_n810	but i ll make later a google mNotes	20:23
Khertan_n810	:)	20:23
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dannym	hi :)	20:23
Khertan_n810	hi	20:24
AndrewFBlack	what would be real nice is something to sync my Google Docs	20:24
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Khertan_n810	hum ...	20:24
Khertan_n810	there isn t editor for document yet	20:24
Khertan_n810	so this will be hard to do :)	20:24
Khertan_n810	and from what i ve see syncing google docs is painful	20:25
AndrewFBlack	yeah I would think it is	20:25
Khertan_n810	as you can t keep category	20:25
lcuk	you can email documents between it from what i understand	20:25
Khertan_n810	otherwhile i could make the sync in a folder	20:25
AndrewFBlack	To tell the truth on documents I would be happy with 1 way sync to the tablet just for viewing	20:26
Khertan_n810	with subfolder for category	20:26
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AndrewFBlack	icuk yeah you can email them in I've done it before	20:27
lcuk	AndrewFBlack, i dont know how you managed it, but you managed to find a variation on my nick thats actually harder to say than my proper one	20:28
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Khertan_n810	lol	20:29
AndrewFBlack	lcuk I'm just that good	20:29
Khertan_n810	i see u k !	20:29
Khertan_n810	:)	20:29
GAN800	Somebody want to find the old bug and dupe this? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3617	20:32
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GNUton	Hi bergie! :)	20:33
bergie	hi	20:33
bergie	I'm just popping in for a moment between swordfighting practice and some beer :-)	20:34
johnx	bergie, just as long as you never do that in a different order :)	20:34
bergie	rarely, rarely	20:35
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Khertan_n810	GAN800: #2051	20:36
GAN800	Ahaaaa, thanks!	20:36
* GAN800 gets really lazy when he's on the tablet.		20:37
Khertan_n810	but i ll not edit it ... i m on tablet too	20:37
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Khertan_n810	GAN800: there is a bugzilla ui for the tablet ? or it s not maintain	20:38
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GAN800	Mabugz	20:38
GAN800	I've found that all bugzilla clients just plain suck	20:38
lcuk	file a bug	20:39
Khertan_n810	lol	20:40
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Khertan_n810	not worse than using microb	20:40
GAN800	lol, the KDE guys are already filing bugs.	20:41
GAN800	They need to learn how to upgrade, judging by some version numbers.	20:41
Khertan_n810	bug for what ?	20:41
Khertan_n810	arf	20:41
Khertan_n810	kde guys :)	20:42
GAN800	Khertan, WAAAAY worse than using MicroB.	20:42
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timeless	gan: where are the bugs?	20:43
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Stskeeps	heh, it's apparent that the kde people have gotten n810s.. they're blogging about it on galaxy.osnews.com which i follow	20:44
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Stskeeps	:P	20:44
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GAN800	timless, #3617 for one.	20:46
Khertan_n810	hum ... not a good idea	20:46
GAN800	There are a couple others.	20:46
johnx	to be fair, there was a lot of good written in Qt for various zauruses	20:46
lcuk	Stskeeps, they were given freebies last week	20:46
GAN800	Man, I'm a 'technological primma donna' now.	20:46
Stskeeps	real hackers buy the tablets themselves, fall in love, and hack on them all day	20:47
Stskeeps	:>	20:47
johnx	GAN800, primma? whoever called you that is a createev spellerer	20:47
crashanddie	anyone with Diablo wanting to do me a favour ?	20:48
GAN800	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=215720	20:48
GAN800	Awesome thread, btw.	20:48
johnx	GAN800, will I regret this?	20:48
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GAN800	johnx, it's pretty hilarious.	20:49
Stskeeps	the wet slot one?	20:49
Khertan_n810	johnx > the zaurus ui is ... horrible	20:49
Stskeeps	ah, or that one	20:49
GAN800	No, the 'I'm Black and I need Help' one	20:49
Khertan_n810	lol	20:49
johnx	Khertan, not the UI in general, but some of the nice Qt apps	20:49
crashanddie	I'll rephrase that: I need someone with diablo, I'll give him a cookie and buy him a beer at the Summit	20:50
crashanddie	dammit	20:50
dannym	hehehe	20:50
crashanddie	I just disqualified everyone who doesn't come to the summit	20:50
dannym	crashanddie: sure, what favour? :)	20:50
GAN800	I might do you a 'favor'. :P	20:50
crashanddie	GAN800, stfu you redneck	20:51
crashanddie	dannym, apt-get install wget libxml++2.6c2a libsdl-ttf2.0-0	20:51
crashanddie	(on the tablet, of course)	20:51
Stskeeps	god.. debootstrap and huge apt-get is possible worse than watching XP install	20:51
GAN800	crashanddie, stfu you drug addict. :P	20:52
crashanddie	and then: wget http://undercity.doesntexist.com/~crashanddie/cloudreader && wget http://undercity.doesntexist.com/~crashanddie/adler.ttf && chmod +x cloudreader	20:52
AndrewFBlack	I don't know who posted under a fake name on that I'm black and need help thread but they need some balls I disagree with people all the time and get flamed prob more then most people and I always use my login	20:52
Khertan_n810	disqualified for what ?	20:52
Khertan_n810	AndrewFBlack: do like me ... don t feed the troll	20:53
Khertan_n810	so .... bye	20:53
AndrewFBlack	which troll the want to be black one or the one who posted under fake name :)	20:53
johnx	GAN800, the funny part was when they invoked your name in the one thread you didn't post in	20:54
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GAN800	johnx, plus the irony of bitching about having to search in a thread where every bit of information the guy could want is right there.	20:55
johnx	some people are really just completely search impaired. they look at a blank search form and they just freeze up	20:55
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GAN800	I'm moving more and more towards just abandoning that hellhole for good.	20:55
johnx	I don't know what it is...	20:55
AndrewFBlack	I think we should ask Reggie to compare Ips and see who posted under a dummy account	20:55
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AndrewFBlack	GA if you leave who am I going to talk shit about all the time :)	20:56
johnx	GAN800, you need to let some threads go. They'll either figure it out on their own or not. no need to worry about it. if no one posts it will just drop off the front page and they'll figure it out or not	20:56
GAN800	When innocent comments get 'ur uh d-bag!', it's time to move on.	20:56
GAN800	At least on other forums I have other d-bags to duke it out with.	20:57
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GAN800	But fighting with idiots is neither interesting nor enjoyable.	20:57
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johnx	the people with half a clue don't care enough to fight	20:58
Stskeeps	i just enjoy the Alternative forums, they are pretty much quiet :P	20:58
crashanddie	dannym, ?	20:58
AndrewFBlack	I'm offened GA doesn't concider me a d-bag with him	20:58
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johnx	GAN800, we could stage a big fight. :D see how many people back each of us without knowing what we're fighting about :)	20:59
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GAN800	If you want to see truely epic d-baggery, check out 'thomm' on the AmbrosiaSW forum for Redline.	20:59
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AndrewFBlack	lol johnx that would be funny as hell	21:00
crashanddie	what's so funny about hell ?	21:00
johnx	crashanddie, clowns	21:01
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crashanddie	O RLY ?	21:01
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johnx	crashanddie, strue	21:02
GAN800	The big arguments are the best.	21:02
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roadies	anyone have experience setting up a applic package have time for a few questions on the process	21:02
GAN800	Thanks!-whoring is never better than when the flames are highest. ;)	21:02
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roadies	Is using Ubuntu or just vanilla Debian better?	21:04
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crashanddie	GAN800 is an alien who fuels off trolls and flamewars	21:04
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crashanddie	roadies, define:better	21:04
AndrewFBlack	itT has never seen a good flameware	21:05
AndrewFBlack	war	21:05
liri	hםw come pyano isn't in my repos?	21:05
crashanddie	that's because I'm not on it regularly	21:05
liri	is it sוpposed to be on chinook or diablo?	21:05
roadies	I'm porting a applic over to a n810 (apache with php), I have the maemo devel environ working on my Fedora but I think I need to use a debian distro to get it to the n810	21:06
GAN800	liri, because Aisu hasn't pushed it.	21:07
roadies	so I need to build a system, which on is easier Ubuntu or Debian and if Ubuntu will I run into the same problem with the packaging process	21:07
liri	GAN800: he really should :)	21:07
johnx	what are your current problems with the packaging process. you should be able to do it inside scratchbox...	21:08
roadies	johnx: page 451 of the refer manual says to "tar xvfz" the run a deb process against the tar file, Fedora does rpm not deb stuff.	21:09
roadies	and the n810 doesnt have a tar supporting "z" compress	21:09
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RST38h	tar cvzf - files \|gzip >target	21:10
RST38h	sorry, you want uncompress...	21:10
johnx	roadies, hang on a sec and I'll read the page, but you should be able to do packaging inside scratchbox	21:10
crashanddie	dannym, any news man ?	21:10
CptLaptop	whats the webcomic reader app called again, anyone?	21:10
RST38h	then gzcat source.tgz \|tar xvf -	21:10
crashanddie	dannym, PM me, I'm off to eat something	21:10
dannym	crashanddie: installing :)	21:12
dannym	crashanddie: okay	21:12
roadies	crashhanddie: the other issue is I can compile everything just great in the DIABLO_X86 environment but not in the DIABL0_ARM environ....aka... "make install fails" dont I need to do that to port to the n810?	21:12
crashanddie	dannym, well, now I'm still here	21:12
crashanddie	wtf you talking to me for roadies ?	21:13
neilpwc	CptLaptop: just a regular image viewer?	21:13
crashanddie	roadies, You should probably try to install all the compilation tools you installed under X86 on DIABLO_ARM too, as they don't share the same installed package list	21:14
roadies	I dont cause I type the wrong name....I am very sorry...... meant to direct to johnx	21:14
crashanddie	lol... From johnx to crashanddie, quite a leap my friend ;)	21:14
roadies	crashhanddie...its been a long long day...	21:15
johnx	roadies, try putting the actual error messages on pastebin...there's lots of things that can fail :)	21:15
roadies	sign	21:15
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* johnx knows about long days O_o		21:15
crashanddie	roadies, try typing "cra" and then hitting the tab key on your keyboard	21:15
johnx	roadies, page 451 of which manual?	21:15
crashanddie	dannym, you're killing me :P	21:17
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roadies	Johnx: Maemo_Diablo_reference_manual_for_maemo_4.1.pdf off the maemo webpage	21:18
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dannym	crashanddie: (libsigc+-2.0-0c2a, libglibmm-2.4-1c2a and libxml++2.6c2a are unsigned it says... I'm overriding it)	21:18
dannym	crashanddie: yeah well, my internet connection isn't exactly fast... best grab something to eat, it will take a few minutes... I'll be here the whole time :D	21:19
crashanddie	dannym, yeah well, my timing's off, I have a few minutes of my own :)	21:20
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johnx	roadies, what happens if you do that stuff inside scratchbox?	21:25
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roadies	johnx: "make"s work fine in both DIABLO_X86 and DIABLO_ARM, "make install" has problems in DIABLO_ARM and I have not tried running the backage stuff within scratchbox. I didnt know you could do that so let me try	21:27
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roadies	Johnx: correction: backage should be package	21:28
roadies	Johnx: but let me ask, am I correct in assuming, I need to build within the DIABLO_ARM envirnoment since its for the n810. And do I really need to do the make install step anyway? Isnt that taken care of by the packaging ?	21:30
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crashanddie	dannym, lol... Are you connected through a 1994 dial-up modem ?	21:33
liri	is it possible to add programs to the applications menu? I took a look at panels in control panel but it's not possible there	21:33
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dannym	crashanddie: no, I'm connected through a usbnet cable... bear with me :)	21:34
crashanddie	ok :)	21:34
dannym	crashanddie: one of the things I should fix is to find a Wireless Hotspot somewhere instead ;)	21:34
Anunakin	hi! all!	21:34
mikkov_	liri: add .desktop file to /usr/share/applications/hildon	21:34
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roadies	Johnx: I have to bolt home, got people screaming at me.... talk l8r thanks for the help	21:35
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GeneralAntilles	timeless, I don't think I'm going to bother filing a bug for the About product control panel/	21:46
GeneralAntilles	That's a change for Fremantle	21:46
* timeless sighs		21:48
timeless	you really should have	21:48
timeless	anyway, i'm going home	21:48
GeneralAntilles	I mean, I will if you want me to. :P	21:48
timeless	please	21:48
GeneralAntilles	I just don't thinks it's something that'll change early.	21:49
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vandenoever	what is the most convenient way of doing development for maemo?	22:00
vandenoever	i've been playing with scratchbox, but it corrupts quite easily	22:00
vandenoever	could it be a good idea to have a real virtual machine?	22:00
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mgedmin	there isn't one	22:01
mgedmin	the least inconvenient way is probably the vmware image	22:01
mgedmin	but I'm not sure there's one with the latest sdk in it	22:01
mgedmin	what sort of scratchbox corruption do you see?	22:01
vandenoever	ldd crashing	22:01
mgedmin	with what error?	22:01
vandenoever	apt-get not working anymore	22:01
mgedmin	network connection issues?	22:02
vandenoever	mgedmin: segmentation fault	22:02
vandenoever	mgedmin: no, network is fine	22:02
mgedmin	ooh, segfault	22:02
vandenoever	yeah, for ldd, that seems pretty serious to me	22:02
vandenoever	i heard of a guy who does maemo development that he runs scratchbox in a vm to be sure it does not kill his fs	22:03
vandenoever	maybe hes' paranoid, but i'm a bit unsure about using scratchbox now	22:03
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jott	as always, you should know what you do before pressing enter :)	22:05
jott	vandenoever: one easy way is to setup a new target, then backup the target and just restore it later if you need to.	22:06
dannym	*@#! RNDIS (USB networking) kernel module just crashed both in the device _and_ on the host	22:06
vandenoever	jott: backup means 'tar cjf /home/me/scratchbox.tar.bz2 /scratchbox' ?	22:06
lcuk	vandenoever, maybe he uses vmware not because of the corruption from scratchbox itself, but from the corruption of installing and configuring it - the vmware image is all nicely setup and you dont have to mess	22:07
lcuk	hi mgedmin :) did you enjoy your holiday	22:07
jott	vandenoever: no, look at /scratchbox/users/$USER/targets	22:07
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mgedmin	hi lcuk	22:07
mgedmin	kinda yeah, especially those days when it wasn't raining	22:07
lcuk	thats always a bonus	22:08
* lcuk hopes its sunny in berlin		22:08
lcuk	jott, we need weather reports every day in the near future :P	22:08
vandenoever	jott: i'll have to reinstall it first :-)	22:08
jott	vandenoever: you should be able to just setup a new target as it's unlikely that you broke scratchbox itself when you just where inside the pseudo chroot :)	22:09
jott	lcuk: rain, clouds, 13-23C :/	22:10
vandenoever	jott: ok, i'll look into the target concept	22:10
lcuk	want sun and low-mid 40s ;)	22:10
vandenoever	it's still 1 month away guys!	22:10
lcuk	only 1 month!	22:10
* lcuk has tonnes to do		22:11
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jott	lcuk: berlin is not really in the south, even if you may think so from your location ;)	22:12
lcuk	jott i think we are about even	22:13
jott	yeah more or less	22:13
jott	but as northerner everything must be south :P	22:14
lcuk	\@	22:15
jott	btw have you found an hotel/hostel?	22:16
lcuk	yes	22:16
liri	mikkov_: ahh thanks!	22:16
lcuk	i booked it last night and sent my mail to the travel agent re flight just before	22:16
jott	aye where is it?	22:16
GreyFoxx	heh	22:20
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dannym	crashanddie: yep, works fine :)	22:25
dannym	crashanddie: I see a loading screen...	22:25
dannym	crashanddie: and then a big panable area with lots of words	22:25
lcuk	jott berlin Stresemannstraße 49, 10963	22:27
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lcuk	Holiday Inn Express Berlin City Centre - am Ku'Damm	22:28
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jott	"am Ku'Damm" haha very broad definition :)	22:29
jott	i used to live two blocks from there	22:29
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jott	(Obentrautstr.)	22:31
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lcuk	jott :) cool, how far from c-base then on foot, i know on the map but thats not the same	22:33
nomis	walking from Kudamm to C-Base is not feasible AFAIK.	22:34
housetier	that's too far indeed	22:34
jott	it's more or less möckernbrücke/anhalter bahnhof not kudamm but still it's a bit of a walk :)	22:34
lcuk	you dont know how far me and pupnik walked :P	22:34
housetier	you should the s-bahn to "Jannowitzbrücke"	22:34
housetier	omg anhalter	22:34
housetier	when in doubt: take the s-bahn	22:35
jott	mh i guess u-bahn i better from there :P	22:35
jott	not the best connection to jannowitzbrücke with public transportations :)	22:35
housetier	maybe not from there	22:35
jott	yep, that's what i meant.	22:36
housetier	http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&msid=114842302533667483625.000435eb6278ce181eb4d&ll=52.512813,13.411367&spn=0.006699,0.021973&t=h&z=16	22:36
housetier	this link is helpful I guess	22:36
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jott	lcuk: it's about 4km, if you like walking it's ok :)	22:38
jott	but better hope you get a gps fix :P	22:38
housetier	I wonder if we the coordinates of c-base somewhere on the homepage	22:39
jott	that link seems good too.	22:41
jott	wasn't there a wiki page for the people arriving? maybe put it there.	22:42
housetier	does this look accordingly: gps-data: N52°30.64' E13°25.22' (WGS84)	22:42
rm_you	aww, GeneralAntilles pinged me but it scrolled off <_<	22:42
housetier	jott, the one from the topic you mean?	22:42
jott	hmm i guess so.	22:42
* jott looks		22:42
jott	not followed the travel stuff as i don't need to travel :)	22:43
housetier	wikipedia seems to disagree: 52° 30′ 47" N, 13° 25′ 11" O	22:43
jott	52.512898,13.420122	22:44
jott	according to google maps :)	22:44
housetier	:)	22:44
jott	+52° 30' 46.43", +13° 25' 12.44"	22:44
jott	yeah wikipedia seems to be right.	22:45
housetier	we should have had quim find out the coordinates when he was here	22:45
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moontiger	is the libmokoui stuff available on os2008 ?	22:47
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GeneralAntilles	rm_you, another control panel applet.	22:50
GeneralAntilles	For tweaking themes and possible some matchbox settings.	22:50
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flo_lap	re	22:52
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rm_you	GeneralAntilles: someone wants us to do it?	22:58
rm_you	like... you? :P	22:58
GeneralAntilles	Yes, me, of course. ;)	22:58
GeneralAntilles	Neither Jaffa__ nor Khertan seem to have the time.	22:58
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GeneralAntilles	Since you'll be working on a Control panel applet, ANYWAY. ;)	22:59
Jaffa	Unfortunately not :(	22:59
rm_you	lol ok	22:59
GeneralAntilles	s/applet,/applet/	22:59
* Jaffa wants to finish mud changes before the summit, but hasn't really started on them.		22:59
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Since you'll be working on a Control panel applet ANYWAY. ;)	22:59
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rm_you	send me details in PM or something	22:59
rm_you	I have to run to the bank to pay rent	22:59
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Jaffa	Grrr. And now my computer's hung doing NFSey and USBey stuff	23:03
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Jaffa	_juan was great. /msg'ed me effectively "a/s/l?". Nice to be wanted	23:04
GeneralAntilles	Welcome to AOL.	23:05
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liri	google reader gives you it's own subscription address which is aggregated no?	23:18
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RST38h	afaik no	23:19
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liri	RST38h: surely there is some way for an rss reader to work with google reader	23:21
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mgedmin	liri: opml export & import?	23:29
mgedmin	that'd get you the same subscriptions in both	23:29
mgedmin	wouldn't help you keep read/unread status in google reader	23:29
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lardman	evening chaps	23:35
GAN800	Howdy	23:36
lardman	How goes it Ryan?	23:36
liri	mgedmin: I'm new to RSS (surprisingly why...) so what's opml export/import?	23:37
GAN800	Well enough, delaying taking all of the patio furniture out of the pool until this stupid storm figures out where it wants to go to die.	23:37
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liri	mgedmin: google reader also has a notes functionality in style of RSS which is why I'm asking	23:38
lardman	the wonders of Florida ;)	23:38
* lcuk ponders taking the patio furniture out of the muddy puddy at the bottom of his garden		23:39
lcuk	puddle even ffs	23:39
lardman	yeah, all rain, no (swimming)pools over here	23:40
lcuk	theres a few, but they get closed down when youngsters leave deposits	23:40
lardman	hmm, thanks for that!	23:40
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lcuk	jake had to do the walk of shame the other day with the mrs. he denied it whilst stood around	23:41
* lardman wonders why Rhythmbox won't play...		23:41
lcuk	"ladies and gentlemen, the pool will be closed until tomorrow"	23:41
lcuk	:'(	23:41
lardman	ah, poor kid	23:41
GeneralAntilles	Pools suck	23:41
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GeneralAntilles	Mostly just a pain in the ass to care for.	23:41
lardman	unless you've not got one!	23:42
GeneralAntilles	The idea is to know somebody with a pool	23:42
lardman	sod the pool, give me the sunshine!	23:42
GeneralAntilles	and use their's	23:42
lardman	good plan	23:42
GeneralAntilles	Very overcast at the moment.	23:42
lcuk	whats the temp there? or don't i want to know	23:42
GeneralAntilles	80s, probably	23:42
lardman	so warmer than here anyway	23:43
GeneralAntilles	http://www.weather.com/weather/local/USFL0438?from=enhsearch_loc	23:43
lcuk	the artic is warmer than here most days	23:43
lardman	yeah well, you do live up North! ;)	23:44
GeneralAntilles	Clouds are keeping the temp down a bit. . . .	23:44
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* lcuk is gonna move somewhere else, even people in other countries take the piss out of my northernness		23:44
* lcuk wonders how much complainin hes gonna get by turnin the wii off and sending the kids to bed..		23:45
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, Wii.	23:45
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lardman_	rubbish internet connection	23:47
GeneralAntilles	The nice thing about earthquakes and tornadoes is that you don't know they're coming.	23:47
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GeneralAntilles	Hurricanes are too much damn stress.	23:48
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Raytray	Don't watch the news.	23:48
bef0rd	That won't stop the hurricanes	23:48
Raytray	He wouldn't know they're coming then	23:48
lardman_	ah, but I bet the weather plugin for maemo mapper would tell him :)	23:49
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GeneralAntilles	"If it goes out into the Gulf and builds up, am I gonna have to put plywood up on the 70-odd windows on the house?"	23:49
Raytray	Leavethe plywood up?	23:49
GeneralAntilles	lol	23:49
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GeneralAntilles	I'm not even sure I could scrounge up the help to get them put up in the first place.	23:50
* GeneralAntilles doesn't remember the last time they had to go up fondly.		23:50
GeneralAntilles	Hey, at least they're all pre-cut now.	23:50
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lardman_	have fewer windows :p	23:51
lardman_	;)	23:51
lcuk	install linux	23:51
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, there's one plan.	23:51
lcuk	well that was less stressful than i figured it would be	23:52
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GeneralAntilles	Hehe	23:52
GeneralAntilles	I've got Microsoft's new plan for getting kids to hate Linux at a young age	23:52
florian	re	23:52
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GeneralAntilles	Ship homebrew kits to parents to use to stop them using their Wiis whenever the kids are bad.	23:53
GeneralAntilles	They'll quickly learn to hate Tux.	23:53
lcuk	i keep threatening to install linux on the eldests' DS	23:53
GeneralAntilles	Haha	23:54
lcuk	he has a fit and wont let me near his stuff. when he got guitar hero i threatened him with similar ;)	23:54
GeneralAntilles	Bad person, lcuk.	23:54
GeneralAntilles	You should save that as a reward if he's good. :P	23:54
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lcuk	the thing is, he used to have a ubuntu desktop and never once complained	23:54
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, the 770 was shipped with a standalone clip together stand wasnt it	23:56
GeneralAntilles	Somebody needs to write a "Developing on device" wiki article already.	23:56
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GeneralAntilles	lcuk, it was the shittiest thing you can imagine	23:57
GeneralAntilles	If you tapped the screen offcenter it would fall off.	23:57
lcuk	yes, i suppose someone does really	23:57
* lcuk looks around		23:57
lcuk	im just thinking i need something similar but bigger for my cradle	23:57
GeneralAntilles	To act as a stand for the cradle?	23:58
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lcuk	yer	23:58
GeneralAntilles	Well, uh, they sell stands for hardcover books that might work.	23:58
lcuk	i might just make another cradle to sit the current cradle in	23:59
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GeneralAntilles	I don't seem them online, but you should be able to find them in bookshops.	23:59

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