IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-08-20

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lardmanwhat do you reckon, convert DSP-side mp3 code to use packed 16 bit chars, or convert ARM-side code to place a single 8bit char in each 16bit int (which will be read as a char on DSP)?00:18
lardmanthe latter me thinks00:18
* Jaffa__ would first try the latter00:19
lirihas anyone tried irreco+mythtv?00:20
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lbtliri: what IR device?00:23
lirilbt: I'm not planing to use an IR device, I just want to control mythtv itself00:25
lirilbt: I'm seeing in the package manager that there are backend packages, are those the plugins for irreco?00:26
lbtnot looked at it b400:26
lbthmm - so does it simulate IR over a wifi00:26
lbtthere's mythetomer00:27
liriso those backend are plugins, yeah.00:27
liriirreco simulates a remote control over a wifi connection00:27
lbtyes - and fakes X events00:27
lbtTBH, this is all a bit X1000:28
liria bit'00:28
lbtthrow out a command and hope it works!00:28
liriI haven't seen mythetomer before, have you used it?00:28
lbtyes - it works00:28
lbtbut it's not my approach00:28
lbtI think we need a solution that controls a frontend with feedback00:29
lbthave you seen the new squeezebox control?00:29
liriuhm, nope00:29
lbtit's a wifi enabled remote control00:31
lbtwith a touch screen00:31
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lbtlike a harmony IR control crossed with an iPhone...00:31
lbt*that* is how to do it...00:32
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lbtGreyFoxx is also interested in Myth remotes...00:32
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dougtis there a way to make the n810 work on a wired lan?00:33
lbtusb networking00:33
lbtand bridge mode00:33
dougtsomething without a requirement of a host.00:33
lbtor maybe a usb/lan dongle?00:33
dougtyeah ^^00:33
darkblue_Bok, here's a classic question.. I have a N800.. I occassionally log into it.. no, I ddnt keep good records of my login credentials :-/.. I just logged in as user.. works fine.. tried to log in as root, and I *swear* the password  had set up.. and it fails.. chances of it being rooted?00:33
dougti wanna just be able to plug this device into a rj45.00:33
crashanddiedarkblue_B, hardly, just might have forgotten your password ?00:34
lirilooking at mythetomer it's basically just a remote style layout but somewhat primitive compared to irreco I think00:34
darkblue_Bcrashanddie: I really dont think so. of course its possible00:34
crashanddiearachnist, I'm wondering if I should ask you what you were hoping to find with such a query string00:35
dougtarachnist: pig dog?00:35
darkblue_B*sigh* I guess there isnt much I can do as user..00:35
arachnistcrashanddie: it wasn't me, it's a paste from another irc channel00:35
darkblue_BI guess I'll re-flash it.. sfwr rev? for an N800?00:36
arachnistdougt: dunno00:36
crashanddiedarkblue_B, diablo00:36
darkblue_Bthe only ting I really need for t is the VNC app...00:36
darkblue_Bis there a newer VNC that works?00:36
dougtarachnist: creative, at the very least.00:37
darkblue_BI have x11vnc in Extras.. it deosnt work all that well00:37
darkblue_Bbut it does work00:38
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lirilbt: just configured irreco, it's awesome00:43
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lirilbt: though they haven't got any preconfigured remotes for mythtv which is somewhat annoying00:43
lbtI just dl'ed it...00:43
lbtyep I was looking too :)00:44
darkblue_Bwhy does netstat show some connection to a comcast address?00:46
lardmannight chaps00:46
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darkblue_Bnow its gone... I dont like this00:52
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GAN800Fucking lame ass bugspam.00:57 of course.00:58
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timelessgan: why is planet broken? :)01:05
jotttimeless: because x-fade has to push a button every 2 hours - as he is on vacation now everything breaks down :P01:07
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GAN800X-Fade disappears and goes straight to shit. :P01:07
GAN800Job insurance or something. ;)01:08
lcuktimeless, the planet is not broken, george bush will be out of office soon and hopefully we can get back to normal01:08
* GAN800 rolleyes.01:08
lcukx-fade IS - its run from his personal 80001:08
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GAN800Naive lcuk.01:09
lcukwhat the planet crack, or the server infrastructure?01:09
jottyou choose :)01:09
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GAN800Thinking it makes any difference which party is in office.01:09
lcukyer especially when im in england :P01:10
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jottwell i had really good parties in the office :P01:10
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lcukyer, office parties are fun01:10
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lcukwtf - itT has a tagging section, but i can only apply 2 tags01:30
lcuki wanted to add bugs,banana,funny,roadtrip and it moaned about 2 too many tags \@/01:31
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jotttag spammer :p01:32
lcukwell ive never used it before, i like to be descriptive :)01:33
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pupnikwhat does winCE use for 3D api?01:33
lcuki thought it was opengl es or whatever its called, but now i think is it something like directx-lite?01:33
lcukor it should be ^01:34
* pupnik ponders 01:36
jottit definitely supports gl es.01:37
jottmaybe dx is also available.01:37
pupnikah We thought it would be fun to do it, so we ported the recenly-GPL-released Quake 3 Arena from iD Software to Windows CE 4.2 for Pocket PC, as a test for our 'SpeedDemon' Windows CE profiler. The game support the Intel 2700g chipset for hardware OpenGL-ES rendering, as well as software rendering.01:37
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jottwe would run quake 4 if we had drivers :P01:38
jottpowervr ranting time!01:38
lcukrule 1201:38
* lcuk hopes we never get to needing rule 3501:39
pupnikso one could make something using - say - sdl + opengl ES and port it to WinCE fairly quickly01:40
jottthe n9x0 omap3 driver issue? :)01:40
lcukif you can abstract the file system and OS functions away i believe the opengl interface remains the same01:41
pupniki was just curious about crossplatform sw01:41
lcuktbut of course, the same can be said about win/linux01:42
AStormfor 3D you need less of OS functions though01:42
lcukyes, but you need to load those assets into memory from disk01:43
lcukand handle user input01:43
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AStormmalloc is portable enough01:44
AStormuser input isn't though, but sdl takes care of that01:44
lcukmalloc doesnt understand disc access commands01:45
AStormthere are portable filesystem libs01:45
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lcukAStorm, no qualms at all, just running over what pupnik asked01:45
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practisevoodoolol, there's a maemo version that i am rich iphone ap01:46
neilpwcyep, i-am-free01:47
AStormok, once we get high-speed GSM modem with drivers (there are many), open wifi driver and better GPS chip, world domination is assured01:48
AStormthis kind of n900 would pwn iPhone01:48
AStormOMAP3 would be great too :>01:48
GeneralAntillesOMAP3 will solve most problems.01:49
jottopen wifi? gps? gsm? no..01:49
GeneralAntillesand Beagle is advertising accelerated OpenGL with the OMAP353001:49
GeneralAntillesPlease no GSM01:49
GeneralAntillesPlease dear god, no GSM.01:49
GeneralAntillesjott, did qwerty12 poke you about rotation-support?01:50
jottnot that i noticed01:50
lcukjott, i still notice the pandora isn't on 3d01:51
GeneralAntillesWhy do people insist on replying to bugmail?01:51
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lcuk:D its the best damned thread on itT EVER01:51
jottwell 3d makes the device closed :/01:51
lcuk(yes, i know ive replied more than others :D)01:51
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* GeneralAntilles isn't going to help people who reply to bugmail instead of posting a comment in the bug.01:53
lcukahhhhh you don't mean:
GeneralAntilleslcuk, what does that have to do with bugmail?01:56
lcukthe guy has a real bug living in his 800 :D01:56
* GeneralAntilles doesn't feel like trying to explain things over and over and over again to people who don't pay attention on itT.01:57
jottGeneralAntilles: FAQ :)01:57
GeneralAntillesjott, that doesn't help.01:57
GeneralAntillesUnless you want me to cover questions like: "Has Nokia tried to get their partners to be more open?"01:58
jottthen you can generate an autoreply "Please read the FAQ, kthxbye"01:58
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* GeneralAntilles goes through and deletes some more crap itT wiki articles.01:59
GeneralAntillesI now know where people were getting their bad advice. . . .01:59
lcukgen, take a deep breath and just reply.  obviously getting worked up about it wont help and you cannot fly out to every single first poster and hit them on the head with a cluestick.02:00
jotthot tips: enable red pill, add crappy repositories,02:00
GeneralAntillesIf only.02:00
GeneralAntillesjott, every. damn. article. . . .02:00
GeneralAntillesOr covering every single possible way to do something.02:00
lcukfight fire with fire, put articles up about how to clean it off02:01
GeneralAntillesInstead of just the two that are stable, sensible and straightforward.02:01
GeneralAntillesThe USB host mode article cleaned up OK02:01
GeneralAntillesThe rest. . . .02:01
lcukonce google sees the new wiki properly the good will push out the bad02:01
GeneralAntillesLet's just say I'm resting the responsibility for rotation on qwerty12's shoulder's instead of those articles.02:02
GeneralAntilleslcuk, the midgard wiki is this the first result for most things.02:02
lcukfor now it is yes02:02
jottand #maemo his pretty good ranked too :)02:02
lcukwe therefore need to push it so google sees the change02:02
GeneralAntillesI think I may have to get with dneary and see about going through the old articles to see what can be deleted.02:02
lcukjott, is amazingly high isnt it :)02:02
jottold wiki should just be shut down.02:03
GeneralAntillesjott, problem is, there's still some mildly useful 770 information there.02:03
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lcukold wiki is the one place where owners of old devices can get the info02:03
lcukthat was the WHOLE reason why the new wiki could cut out the cruft02:03
GeneralAntillesThere's a lot of stuff that can go, though.02:03
jottthey should move along and update to 2008he :)02:04
GeneralAntillesStuff where the new article is relevant to all devices02:04
lcukthe mess made because no1 knew a better way or had anything else to switch to02:04
GeneralAntillesand the old one is just dragging things down02:04
GeneralAntillesLike root access.02:04
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jotti really doubt its worth the confusion.02:04
jottso much stuff is outdated and unmaintained even for 77002:04
lcukok, so how do you ensure you keep the good stuff for n770 without destroying it by bulldozing through ripping out the 8x0 stuff02:05
GeneralAntillesjott, as do I.02:05
jottor just wrong :)02:05
GeneralAntillesBut there were a lot of knee-jerk reactions against deleting.02:05
lcukjott, but the linux way is to allow the older stuff to survive02:05
lcukthere is no solid fixed end of line02:05
GeneralAntilleslcuk, OK, that was COMPLETELY ass backwards02:05
lcukif people are using it, great02:05
jottlcuk: make a downloadable archive :)02:05
jottor point them to ;)02:06
* GeneralAntilles chuckles at the Windows user talking about the Linux way. :P02:06
jottlcuk: problem is that there are old and possibly wrong information in it.02:06
jottlcuk: and no one cares to work on it.02:06
lcukit shouldnt need to: what ideally will happen is google should start to give results for 8x0 from the new wiki02:06
GeneralAntillesDefinitely wrong information02:06
GeneralAntillesIdeally, but doesn't right now.02:06
lcukgood jott, it should be lower in the rankings but no1 said it has to die02:06
GeneralAntillesAnyway, we're not talking whole-hog deletions.02:07
jottlcuk: some time you have to move along :)02:07
lcukonce it goes off the google front page for normal 8x0 queries the problem will solve itself02:07
GeneralAntillesI just want to kill some stuff that doesn't have any useful info not covered by the new article and is just getting in the way with lots of wrong info.02:07
jottlcuk: and that's why stuff from the old wiki is moved to the new one.02:07
jottlcuk: because there atleast the slight hope of improvement exists.02:07
lcukno jott, thats why the new wiki was given license to cleanup and kill all the old stuff02:08
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lcukpurely because the old wiki still existed02:08
lcukthe problem here is people are clinging onto the old bad information02:08
jottyes - so just remove it.02:08
lcukwe need to push the new wiki instead of complaining about whats past02:08
lcukgoogle will adapt if its pushed02:08
jottno point in keeping wrong information on an official place.02:08
jottmove it to so it's not affiliated with maemo.org02:09
jottgoogle often fails..02:10
lcukjust a move itself would work..02:10
GeneralAntillesI'm gonna get with dneary and see about killing the shitty pages.02:10
lcukor similar02:10
jottshould be enough :)02:10
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jott stored for "eternity" :P02:11
jottjust drop it from and move along..02:11
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jottif there is something important in it then it should be in the new wiki anyway.02:12
jotteverything else is just pure bs.02:12
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GeneralAntillesThe old flashing pages need to be killed.02:14
GeneralAntillesThe old root articles need to be killed.02:14
GeneralAntillesWhere are the people with this kind of access when you need them. . . .02:14
jotti think x-fade should not be allowed to take vacations in the next year :P02:15
GeneralAntilles~karma jott02:15
andrewfblackwhat irc program do you guys use on the tablets02:15
infobotjott has karma of 202:15
GeneralAntilles~karma jott02:15
andrewfblackmibbit sucks on tablet02:16
infoboti guess xchat is an IRC client for unix and windows at or
jottspam protection probably..02:16
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras-devel.02:16
andrewfblackok i'll take a look at it02:16
GeneralAntillesMy sister's out back blowing up water bottles with HCl and aluminum foil.02:17
lcukjott, ok then, pull the plug.  off with its head so to speak02:18
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andrewfblackis extra dlevel not on gronmayer?02:19
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, forget gronmayer02:21
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infobotextras is, like,
GeneralAntillesThere's a .install there.02:21
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GeneralAntillesSo, who wants to volunteer to do an SSH article? :P02:23
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GeneralAntillesShould cover key setup, security, x-forwarding and xauth02:24
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nikosapiling long pagoda03:24
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darkblue_Bso.. flashing a N800 from linux.. I am looking at DIABLO 4.2008.23-1403:25
darkblue_Bgood?  stick with stable?03:25
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darkblue_B(I listed with dpkg --list just now for what is there already.. 2007 stable I think.. June?03:26
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GAN80023-14 is old.03:32
GAN800Upgrade to 30-203:32
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darkblue_B30-2 ??? where do I fnd that?  GAN80004:03
GAN800Open Application manager, go to the 'Check for updates' section and tap the little rotating arrow in the bottom right of the toolbar.04:03
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* GeneralAntilles wonders why the information in the topic title is relevant.
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moontigerGA: cos its a brilliant thread *laughs*04:35
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lionel_Has anyone else had problems flashing an N800 with the RX-34_DIABLO_4.2006:31
lionel_08.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin image?06:31
lionel_I posted to this channel earlier today and got no response.  Looking back in the IRC log, it looks like at least one other person (handle = hub) ran into the same problem.06:33
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lionel__Their solution, and the one that worked for me, was to ditch the RX-34_DIABLO image and instead go with RX-34_2008SE.2.2007 ...06:35
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darkblue_Bhuh.. I just flashed with the RX 34 2008SE image07:07
darkblue_Bseems to be going well.. from 64bit linux07:08
GeneralAntillesupgrade process consists of two commands: apt-get remove mplayer apt-get install mplayer07:08
* GeneralAntilles facepalm07:08
GeneralAntillesYou gotta wonder about some people.07:08
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* ShadowJK wonders if that works better for people mixing/changing random repos back and forth07:10
darkblue_Bthe backup it found appareantly has some of my settings.. I had forgotten about.. so far so good07:11
darkblue_Bnow to compare dpkg list07:12
darkblue_BI had python and apache going07:12
GeneralAntillesI don't get why people are obsessed with filling their catalogs with tons and tons of craptastic repositories.07:12
darkblue_Bdecentralized repos.. its inevitable, dont you think?07:13
GeneralAntillesOnly decentralized because of assholes insisting on opening a new one for each and every damn package.07:15
GeneralAntillesThere's one repo you need, and that's Extras.07:15
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darkblue_Bok.. so ssh.. how does this go..07:17
darkblue_BopenSSH is in te installable apps list07:18
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GeneralAntillesOf course it is, it's in Extras.07:20
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darkblue_Bhmm my old dpkg list shows gnu readline07:30
darkblue_BI wonder what the package name is for that07:30
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darkblue_Band it says cant stat package xxx from chinook/user packages07:34
darkblue_Bthis is diablo07:34
darkblue_Bperhaps I need to expunge some list of repos07:34
timelessgan: how do people reply to bugmail?07:36
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darkblue_Bso where do I get apache, python and gnu readline?07:38
timelessyuck :)07:38
timelesspython should come from extras ...07:38
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timelessand i'd hope readline would too07:38
timeless(if they don't come from tools/sdk)07:38
darkblue_Btimeless: why yuck?07:39
timelesswhy do you want to run a full web server on a poor mobile device?07:40
darkblue_Bwell I suppose I dont have to07:40
darkblue_BI am writing a system in python right now for work07:41
darkblue_Bpython has its own, well several, ways of responding to http07:41
darkblue_BI dont care for apache..07:41
darkblue_Bas I recall, someone told me to install canola and I will get python07:42
darkblue_Byep. .canola207:43
timelessyeah it will...07:43
darkblue_BI'm confused abou tthis chinook vs diablo bit07:44
darkblue_Blooks like plenty of things are coming from sonething called chinook07:44
darkblue_BI sure apprecaite that backup..07:44
darkblue_Bit found it and it worked07:44
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timelesschinook is the old version07:46
timelessideally the versioning is such that stuff in diablo is newer07:46
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timelessand therefore you should get stuff from diablo if someone bothers to make a package for it07:46
darkblue_Bso I neeed to add the dablo repo?07:48
darkblue_BI dont see it07:48
darkblue_Bonly the General's Extras07:48
timelessif you're running diablo07:49
timelessthen you should have/add diablo repos07:49
darkblue_Bso I just went to edit the catalog details fro maemo Extras07:49
darkblue_Bit says "Distribution: chinook"07:49
darkblue_Bthat may be leftover07:49
darkblue_Bmaybe i should change that07:49
timelesswhat version of the os are you running?07:50
darkblue_BI just flashed with RX 34 2008SE07:51
darkblue_Band I installed canola2.. saw a bunch of chinook things come in07:52
darkblue_Bit had found a backup file and used it..07:53
timelessse usually means sales edition...07:53
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darkblue_Bwell thats what I found on line07:53
darkblue_Bohhh I have the RX 34 DIABLO sitting here07:54
darkblue_Bnot on the right machine07:54
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darkblue_Bperhaps I should do this again07:54
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darkblue_Bcoolness.. the backup file worked again08:04
darkblue_B*now* I am in Diablo08:05
darkblue_B*now* it wants to download a bunch of apps auto magically08:06
darkblue_BI havent touched the repos.. but its convenient to just say yes08:06
darkblue_BI suppose it will do the right thing (?)08:08
darkblue_Bwell I said cancel08:08
darkblue_Band went through the repos list and changed everything that said chinook to diablo08:09
darkblue_Bit wants to put th eOS update in08:09
darkblue_Bok to that08:10
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* timeless sighs08:18
timelesscould we please *ban* *  from
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hachianyone know if the mail app can be told to not run in the background?08:48
hachiI like it... but I really wish I could disable it from running at times08:48
timelessnot sure if it'll really work if you do it :)08:50
timelesshachi: can you "define" times?08:50
timelesslike, should it not run if you're "offline"?08:51
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hachiwhen I so choose08:51
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hachias in, when I pick the option that says "stop running this bloody process in the background"08:51
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* timeless ignores hachi08:53
darkblue_Bnow I have root login08:53
hachigee, thanks08:53
hachiask me to define something, and then treat me like dirt08:54
darkblue_Bbut when I login as user, I dont know my passwd08:54
darkblue_Bis there a default user passwd or something?08:54
timelessthere isn't really a password for user08:54
timelessit's just not supposed to accept remote logins08:54
darkblue_Breally?  the previous one did08:54
timelessafaik there isn't...08:55
darkblue_Bok.. I guess I dont care08:55
hachianyone else have a clue about the mail application?08:55
darkblue_Btimeless: thx08:55
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moontigerhachi: yah ... i think it sucks09:03
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hachiis that what I said that was wrong?09:05
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moontigerhachi: no i dont think so ... not sure if you said anything wrong ... i *think* most people use claws09:13
timelessnote that claws can't be backed up09:13
timelessand along w/ pidgin, it's a fairly good way to make the backup app break09:13
aquatixtar cf claws.tar ~/.claws-mail09:14
aquatixor something :)09:14
timelessoh sure... and leave the rest of the device unable to back up09:14
aquatixput the tar in a card or in your documents or something09:14
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aquatixif you leave if in the home, backup will break?09:14
timelessit's not the tarbal09:15
timelessit's the conf files for claws and purple09:15
timelessthey're written to break backup :)09:15
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aquatixerm, worked here09:15
timelessaquatix: and note that the claws one at least is broken in 3.509:15
aquatixbackup didn't barf or whatever, and restored fine09:15
timelessthey promised a fix in "next"09:15
timelessum... i doubt it09:15
aquatixand i use claws 3.509:15
timelesssince i talked to their devs09:15
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timelessthe backup won't restore everything09:16
aquatixi reflashed my tablet with diablo when the last update broke09:16
aquatixand it restored as good as everything to me09:16
aquatix[i didn't restore everything, not the multimedia stuff etc]09:16
aquatixno glitches09:16
aquatixbut maybe full restore fails then09:16
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moontigertimeless: i dont use my n810 as my main email store anyways so i dont mind if it gets toasted in the event of a backup09:17
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hachithe last version of claws I used couldn't handle multiple accounts concurrently in the interface09:17
hachihave they changed that recently?09:18
timelessmoontiger: suit yourself09:18
moontigerhachi: i *wish* they would make modest usable as i dont really like claws09:18
moontigerbut claws works09:18
timelessthe bigger problem is purple, which basically breaks backup entirely09:18
timeless(backup is the buggy app in that case)09:18
moontigerwhereas modest .... ummmmm .... sucks09:18
timelesscan you guys be more detailed than "sucks"?09:19
hachi'you guys' ?09:19
timelesswhichever of you is going to say that it sucks09:19
moontigertimeless: no user configurable fonts ... viewing different accounts is *ridiculous* ... changing to different account is as dumb09:19
hachiI like it09:19
moontigerand... the notification thing gets *really* annoying09:19
moontigerand ... the fact that i cant tell it to stop damn checking my email09:20
* moontiger checks her notes...09:20
hachiI just want to make it so that when I configure it, it doesn't run all the time09:20
moontigerthats it for now i think09:20
moontigerafter those i get bored and uninstall it again09:20
hachiI'm basically cornered into configuring it, and then letting it run 24/7, or disable/delete the accounts09:20
moontigerhachi: thats my point ... they did so much good work on it and yet it is ruined by these small points09:21
moontigeri dont get it09:21
moontiger*shakes head*09:22
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konttorimoontiger: perhaps you could contact pvanhoof about the issues.09:24
timelesswow, i have 3 bugs numbered 1698 in my mailbox09:24
timelessthat's kinda odd09:24
timeless(mozilla, maemo, claws)09:24
konttorihe's usually in freenode from around 9 CET09:24
konttori(the guy behind tinymail and also the main developer of modest - well used to be the main developer for modest, he's working mostly on tracker at the moment)09:25
aquatixtimeless: *g*09:26
* konttori bases that solely on his commit history to tracker :)09:26
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GeneralAntillestimeless, hitting "reply all" on the bugmail notices or something. I get a lot of "Re: [Bug #blah]..." messages from people.09:28
moontigerkonttori ... i did before and got nowhere so i just stopped using it until either it gets fixed or i get enough time to try to fix it myself ... i respect whoever worked on it ... i just disagree with the design decisions they made09:28
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, so, uh, what you're saying is that you think MORE people use a hard-to-find 3rd-party client than the built-in client that ships on EVERY DEVICE?09:29
GeneralAntillesRight then. . . .09:29
moontigerGA... no ... i was referring to people here mostly ... and i did say "i think"09:29
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GeneralAntillestimeless, +1 on banning . . .09:30
konttoriYeah, the font issue is a big one on the platform. Did you at any point consider just using a theme with the font and font size you like more?09:30
moontigerkonttori ... i do but modest completely ignoes it09:30
GeneralAntilleskonttori, that wont changed Modest's fonts in the message window.09:30
konttoriReally? You must be kidding!09:30
konttoriI must check that out.09:30
konttorisounds really truly horrific.09:31
GeneralAntillesI'd be OK if reducing font size with the zoom keys would stick09:31
GeneralAntillesBut you have to change everytime you open a new message09:31
GeneralAntillesI actually really like Modest, myself.09:31
konttorihow about when you click on the next / previous button?09:31
moontigerkonttori: as it stands right now i think it is horrific (to borrow your expression)09:31
* konttori also likes modest09:31
GeneralAntillesBut it does have a few quirks that seem to stem from taking the whole "keep it as small as possible" way too far.09:31
* moontiger would love to like modest and keeps trying09:31
GeneralAntilleskonttori, retained with next/previous.09:32
konttoribut then again, I use it to read my personal email, which means that I open it once or twice a day and mostly click on the next button09:32
GeneralAntillesBut I don't always read my mail consecutively.09:32
konttoriGA: that explains why I haven't noticed the issue myself09:32
konttoriOr have been bothered by it.09:32
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GeneralAntillesThe multiple accounts behavior is really baffling09:34
GeneralAntillesand actually seems to have gotten worse than I remember from previously.09:34
GeneralAntillesHaving to switch from 2 levels down in the menu is just craziness09:35
* timeless considers finding mailboxes to test w/ modest09:35
* timeless considers finding food09:35
* timeless decides to send a gmail instead09:35
XTLTo the orbit?09:37
GeneralAntillesModest will die on big IMAP accounts, too.09:37
timelesshrm, btw..09:39
timelesswhat would you guys say to having the logo on float:right instead of being left or center?09:39
timelessbtw, what's the name of the modest process that runs in the background?09:39
timelessis it /usr/bin/modest ?09:39
* timeless coughs09:39
timelessi think my smallest imap account is ~10,000 messages09:39
timelessand that's one i don't use09:39
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timelessmy inbox has 190,047 unread conversations :)09:39
hachimine top out around 10k, and I just archive the junk yearly09:40
timelessi thought they were supposed to have limits to deal w/ big inboxes09:40
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timelessi actually archived mail from my personal gmail box yesterday for the first time ever09:40
GeneralAntilles /usr/bin/modest09:41
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konttorimodest works pretty well on 10k messages still09:41
konttorihaven't tested on bigger ones though09:41
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timelessfrom memory, i think modest is basically instantiated by some dbuss client09:41
konttoriinitial db build though takes a bit of time09:41
timelessif you either whack the dbus client or the dbus contract09:41
timelessyou could probably get the daemon to go away09:41
timelesspossibly w/o seriously harming the ui09:42
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XTLMy inbox is squeaky clean, usually.09:42
timelessin the previous architecture, there was a task navigator client which was partially responsible for the polling of mail09:42
timelessso it's conceivable that it's what's responsible for polling modest09:42
timelessin which case, you could try whacking it first :)09:42
aquatixinbox is clean, but 196466 messages in the rest of my imap account :)09:43
aquatixmodest generally has some troubles with it09:43
* timeless chuckles09:44
timelessyour mailbox is small :)09:44
XTLNever tried to do message counts.09:44
XTLMight be interesting :)09:44
aquatixXTL: claws-mail gives a total in the system tray on my machine09:44
aquatixwell, in the mouse-over of the system tray icon actually, but you get the point09:45
GeneralAntillesm-vo's idea to make Modest and MicroB uninstallable could quiet some people.09:45
timelessum, you can't uninstall them?09:45
timelessthey're just packages09:45
GeneralAntillesNot without removing osso-software-version09:45
timelessuninstall the meta package, and then uninstall two or so core packages for microb09:45
GeneralAntillesand never getting SSU updates again.09:45
timelessyeah well, osso-software-version will have to be uninstalled09:45
timelessactually, wait09:46
aquatixGeneralAntilles: well, i kinda like modest09:46
timelessanyone here actually understand how debian alternatives works?09:46
aquatixbut it's sluggy [at least to start] here09:46
aquatixtimeless: somewhat09:46
timelessbecause i could trivially write a package that changed the depends for osso-software-version09:46
timelessbut the question is how to deal w/ upgrades09:46
aquatixor create a dummy package that provides `modest'09:47
XTLthat's what I'd have said09:47
timelessyeah, well...09:47
timelessproviding modest isn't such a problem09:48
GeneralAntillesMicroB and Modest would be upgraded just like any other application package.09:48
timelessproviding microb is09:48
aquatixGeneralAntilles: yeah, i like that idea09:48
timelessthere are a bunch of things that use microb's functionality09:49
timelesse.g. the tutorial09:49
timelessand hopefully there will be more in the future09:49
timelessif you "provide" microb (* really microb-engine+tablet-browser-daemon)09:49
GeneralAntillesI'm not really overly concerned about MicroB and Modest, but it'd definitely be nice to be able to cleanly and easily remove the commercial installers, bundled documentation, and bundled media for good without having to delete it again with every SSU push.09:49
timelessand someone properly depends on them, then when they install, they're a broken app09:50
atulHi all, I am creating one database in using my application and writing some values on to it but while writing in to it giving me error messsage like "Can't execute: attempt to write a readonly database"09:50
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XTLWrap dillo :)09:50
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timelessxtl: have fun09:51
timelessthe api you need to implement is quasi public09:51
aquatixtimeless: why would you want to get of microb though?09:51
timelessbut the daemon stuff isn't open source09:51
timelessaquatix: get _rid_ of ?09:51
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aquatixer, yeah09:51
* aquatix is still waking up09:51
GeneralAntillesaquatix, presumably to save space if you really don't need a browser, or to switch to an alternative once they actually become usable.09:51
aquatixbrain-to-irc adapter isn't optimal yet09:51
aquatixGeneralAntilles: fair enouhg09:52
timelessgan: "it won't work"09:52
GeneralAntillesaquatix, I can't imagine being in either of those situations myself, though. ;)09:52
timelessaquatix: in theory for the reasons gan suggests09:52
XTLatul: You're not giving much information09:52
timelessin practice, i'd never do it09:52
timelessand anyone who tries will regret it09:52
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timelessit's like fighting the awesomebar09:52
timelesseventually you'll stop fighting and learn to love it09:52
XTLBest guess would be that the error message is right :)09:52
* moontiger fought the awesome bar to start with09:52
aquatixtimeless: i didn't even fight it09:53
atulXTL, am using Sqlite as back-edn data base09:53
timelessthere's a great /. comment for that09:53
moontigeratul: what are you trying to do?09:53
GeneralAntilles"They can't handle awesome of THAT magnitude!"09:53
aquatixi was a bit baffled the first few times i used it, but it adapted to me09:53
aquatixwhich is good :)09:53
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GeneralAntillesEverything Firefox pretty much pisses me off these days.09:53
moontigerGA: how so?09:53
GeneralAntillesI don't use Windows machines anymore09:54
aquatixi think fx3 works quite fine09:54
aquatixdefault browser for me09:54
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aquatixGeneralAntilles: so?09:54
moontigeri use FF3 on all my machines09:54
GeneralAntillesand there are plenty of faster, better integrated, less irritating browsers available for OS X.09:54
aquatixi use it as default linux browser09:54
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aquatixah, osx09:54
* timeless shrugs09:54
timelessi can't use any good browsers on osx09:54
aquatixGeneralAntilles: which do you use btw?09:54
GeneralAntillesFirefox is just SLOW on all of my PPC machines for some reason.09:54
timelessso i don't want to hear about any of them :)09:54
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aquatixtimeless: get a mac dammit ;)09:55
timelessthey all suck (for dropping support for 10.3) :)09:55
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timelessaquatix: i have one!09:55
timelessthat's the problem09:55
GeneralAntillesaquatix, 2x2.5GHz G5 with Leopard09:55
timelessi have panther 1.6ghz g509:55
aquatixGeneralAntilles: and you're using Safari?09:55
* aquatix has none09:55
* GeneralAntilles starts fundraising for the "Let's Launch Copies of Leopard Out of a Cannon at timeless" campaign.09:56
GeneralAntillesaquatix, OmniWeb.09:56
GeneralAntillesI could also use Safari09:56
aquatixooh, an omniweb user09:56
timelessgan: omniweb from 5.x+ was webkit09:56
GeneralAntillesOr, hell, Camino if I had to pick something Gecko-based.09:56
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GeneralAntillesI really like OmniWeb's tab system.09:56
* timeless preferred omniweb when they had their own engine09:56
* timeless regretted not buying it09:56
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GeneralAntillesI was glad for OmniWeb 4 back in the IE 5.5 days.09:57
GeneralAntillesCame back to it about a year ago.09:57
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* GeneralAntilles doesn't feel like having to use XP to update the HAVA box.10:00
aquatixbut, it's revolutionary!10:01
* timeless cries10:01
GeneralAntillesWish they'd just provide a web interface or something.10:01
timelessi really should have made a bookmark to that slashdot comment10:01
timelessit's impossible to find10:01
GeneralAntillesIt's fun watching TV on the tablet, though.10:01
aquatix[sorry, was the first word i noticed googling that acronym]10:01
aquatixGeneralAntilles: yeah, that's where the quote came from10:02
GeneralAntillestimeless, things you want to find usually are. :P10:02
GeneralAntillesaquatix, ah.10:02
aquatixGeneralAntilles: it's like slingbox10:03
GeneralAntillesBut with tablet support!10:03
aquatixbutbutbut, slingbox runs linux!10:03
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aquatixGeneralAntilles: do you need a client on your tablet?10:04
aquatixor does it produce a stream?10:04
GeneralAntillesaquatix, client10:04
GeneralAntillesAlthough you can get to it with VLC10:04
GeneralAntillesRTSP stream10:04
GeneralAntillesSo presumably you could latch onto that somehow.10:04
GeneralAntillesBut that doesn't give you control of the IR blaster.10:04
aquatixhm, nice10:05
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* timeless gives up10:05
timelesshey, how does suggests work"?10:07
timelessif you have Foo 1.1 installed10:07
timelessand Bar 1.1 installed10:07
timelessand you have MetaBaz 1.1 installed and it suggests Foo 1.1, Bar 1.1, Py 1.110:07
timelessand you see MetaBaz 1.2 available10:07
timelessand it suggests 1.2 of Foo, Bar and Py10:07
timelesswhat happens if you try to install MetaBaz?10:08
moontigertimeless: is that your website?10:08
GeneralAntillestimeless, Application manager doesn't do anything about suggests.10:08
moontigerwebwizardry etc etc10:09
timelessi don't run my own servers :) and and are all loaned to me by friends :)10:10
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timelessand typos are mine :)10:10
aquatixtime to catch a train10:10
moontigerbut you do all the coding etc yes?10:10
timelessum, does a lot of unrelated stuff10:10
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GeneralAntillesBye, aquatix10:11
timelesshistorically a bunch of us used it to build mozillas10:11
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timelessatm i mostly use it as an ssh portal for irc10:11
timelessviper is where i host my blog and a mailbox i never read :)10:11 basically hosts which is essentially a hosted application10:11
aquatixlaters all10:11
moontigercool :)10:11
timelessvery little stuff actually is developed there10:11
timelessmostly it's developed on and swift(@work)10:12
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moontigerthats neat10:14
GeneralAntillesThis seems a little small and pointless to justify its own article
moontigerso you do dev work for a living too?10:14
* GeneralAntilles wonders where he should put it.10:14
XTLSome general usb host mode page?10:15
GeneralAntillesThat'd be
XTLMakes sense to me. Perhaps a section..10:16
XTLIs there a page about keyboards?10:16
GeneralAntillesThat seems largely pointless.10:16
GeneralAntillesDoesn't the operator setup wizard handle all that?10:17
GeneralAntillesXTL, not yet, want to make one? :D10:17
XTLJust bt, it seems.10:17
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XTLI thought there's another common item that could go on a usb page. Then again, the bt keyb stuff is on its own page.10:18
GeneralAntillesTips on avoiding having your operator detect ToS violations seems like a bad topic for the maemo.rog wiki to cover.10:18
* GeneralAntilles deletes.10:18
XTL"How to avoid billing issues" sounded more exciting than it was10:19
GeneralAntillesNot entirely a Maemo topic10:19
GeneralAntillesProbably better served by a google search10:19
GeneralAntillesOr just installing PAN-support. . . .10:19
timelessYou do not have permission to do that, for the following reason:10:19
timelessYour user name or IP address has been blocked.10:19
timelessThe block was made by dneary. The reason given is Anonymous contributions over HTTP restricted..10:19
XTLtimeless: how about https?10:19
timelessis it possible to fix the error to say10:20
timeless"you are not logged in, perhaps you should log in first"10:20
XTLMight be a bit more friendly. (https works, though)10:20
timelessyeah well...10:20
timelessthat too10:20
GeneralAntillestimeless, not without nasty mediawiki hacks.10:20
timelesswhat about changing the edit links to be https?10:20
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'm in favor of using MediaWiki's permissions to properly ban anonymouse edits.10:21
timelessyou can't seriously tell me that *that* would be hard?10:21
GeneralAntillesWell, I suppose I could change the ban reason.10:21
GeneralAntillesOne sec.10:21
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* timeless is confused10:22
timelessi'm using https10:22
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timelessit's letting me try to edit the page10:22
timelessbut it has a 'log in' link at the top10:22
GeneralAntillesYou can edit over https anonymously.10:22
* GeneralAntilles really wishes MediaWiki had an admin control panel.10:22
timelessok, that makes a load of sense10:23
* timeless shakes head10:23
* XTL wishes there was something that stopped people from using mediawiki. And php.10:23
timelessand wikis!10:23
timelessok, i give up10:23
timelesstrying to find the previous version of a deled page is apparently hard10:23
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GeneralAntillestimeless, OK, here's the issue. Anonymous edits over http show up as by "" because of some proxy weirdness.10:25
GeneralAntillesSo you can't ban IPs specifically10:25
GeneralAntilleswhich is problematic because you get spammers (who seem to come from the same IP often enough).10:26
GeneralAntillesThe bug on that is a WONTFIX, so we're banning, which effectively bans all anonymous edits over http.10:26
GeneralAntillesYou CAN edit anonymously over https, though, because we get a real IP for users doing that.10:26
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'm in favor of banning ALL anonymous edits, but there wasn't consensus for that when the discussion last came up.10:27
GeneralAntillesSo here we are.10:27
timelessyou've kinda broken that page by deleting 1/3 of the links10:27
GeneralAntillesYeah, I'm gonna delete that one too.10:28
timelessor maybe you deleted 2/4 of the links?10:28
GeneralAntillesThese are old itT wiki articles that andrewfblack has been kind enough to help migrate.10:28
GeneralAntillesProblem is, lots of them are terrible. :\10:28
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timelessi hope he's not doing it by hand10:29
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timelessbtw, is anyone going to kill the other wikis?10:29
timelessso many wikis, so little valuable content10:29
GeneralAntillesThe old midgard wiki is mostly a 770-relevant archive at this point10:30
GeneralAntillesI need to get with dneary to go through it, though, as a lot of its articles are colliding uselessly with newer articles.10:30
GeneralAntillesThe itT wiki is up to Reggie10:30
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'd like to see it deleted.10:30
GeneralAntillesBut the itT crowd is likely to lynch me if I suggest it again.10:30
XTLmidgard is a pretty neat name. I wonder if that scheme was kept up anywhere.10:31
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GeneralAntillesand the 770 crowd will lynch me if I suggest deleting the midgard wiki again.10:31
XTLSo you'll have to have careful timing to get both requests out before the mob hits10:32
GeneralAntillesJust gotta try to mitigate their negative effect on the ease-of-access to relevant information.10:32
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timelessare the 770 wiki things r/w ?10:32
GeneralAntillesXTL, see if I can get them to kill eachother when they arrive here at the same time to kill me.10:32
timelessbecause i keep hitting r/o wikis10:32
GeneralAntillesmidgard is locked.10:32
timelesswhich pisses me off10:32
timelessthe content sucks10:32
GeneralAntillesWhich is funny for a wiki10:32
timelessand i'd liek to fix it10:32
timeless(even my typos would be an improvement!)10:33
GeneralAntillestimeless, well, part of it is that we'd rather see any effort that might go there go into the mediawiki instead.10:33
timelesscan you tell google NoIndex? :)10:33
GeneralAntillesBut we didn't consider deleting the old content seriously enough when the mediawiki was just migrated midgard content.10:33
GeneralAntillestimeless, can we? That'd help a lot.10:33
timelessa couple of ways10:33
timelessone is w/ robots.txt10:33
timelessanother is w/ their site thingy10:34
timelessi can't remember how it works10:34
GeneralAntillesNow that mediawiki actually has some useful content, some midgard pages need to be deleted.10:34
timelessbut probably Agent: * Disallow: /community/*10:34
timelessor something like that10:34
GeneralAntillesLike I said, I'll be running through the list with dneary when he gets back from vacation.10:34
GeneralAntillesNow I want to figure out what's actually happening with the layout.10:35
GeneralAntillesSo I can decide whether or not I want to try to fix the broken "" mediawiki style.10:35
* GeneralAntilles bookmarks.10:36
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GeneralAntilles <- those are the pages that need attention10:37
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moontigertimeless: that works for the bots who respect robots.txt10:40
moontigerother will ignore it10:40
GeneralAntillesI need more good overview pages like this:
GeneralAntillesSomebody want to volunteer to do one for SSH or VNC? :)10:42
moontigerGA: i would be happy to ... just the overview stuff and links?10:46
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GeneralAntillesmoontiger, not a lot of useful SSH or VNC articles at the moment, but, yeah.10:46
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GeneralAntillesThis will likely be a good jumping off point:
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moontigerummmmm whats wrong with that page?10:48
moontigeri have to get some sleep now but i'll talk more with you tomorrow about it if thats ok? :)10:50
GeneralAntillesIt's poorly formatted, poorly written, filled with lots of cruft information and generally poor quality.10:50
GeneralAntillesyeah, no rush. ;)10:50
GeneralAntillesFeel free to red-link pages which should exist.10:50
Jaffa__Morning, all10:50
GeneralAntillesHey, Jaffa.10:51
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XTL<3 plenware11:01
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* GAN800 wonders what, exactly, they're planning to release on Maemo. . . .11:02
lbtGeneralAntilles: maybe setup a 'Connectivity' meta page? wifi, usb, ssh, vnc, telnet, PChost, linuxhost...11:03
GAN800lbt, also sounds like a pla,11:03
GAN800XTL, that _could_ be better.11:03
GAN800That's at least easier and more flexible11:04
XTLMediawiki also has those boxes, doesn't it11:04
GAN800If less descriptive.11:04
lbtbut it's front-page linkable...
lbtand it's a wiki - move or delete it if it doesn't work :)11:04
Jaffa__GAN800: who/what are plenware?11:05
GAN800Category:Connectivity is also linkable.11:05
GAN800Jaffa__, some Finnish company that just opened an office in China.11:05
lbtCategory:Connectivity won't have red links...11:06
GAN800lbt, true enough.11:06
XTLShould it?11:06
XTLI think categories are useful for seeing what there is, not what's missing.11:07
GAN800Just do both for now, I suppose.11:07
lbtexactly - eventually convert them11:07
XTLOf course a main conn page can be in the category :911:07
XTLThere might not be a neat way to get away from maintaining a list that can be inferred plus a list of what's missing.11:08
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GAN800Getting these basic topics covered would really be helpful.11:09
XTLUnless you make the connectivity page manually list missing topics and have a category box if those are available11:09
GAN800I hit USB pretty well yesterday11:09
GAN800Bluetooth I just started on11:09
GAN800But it needs some real articles to link to.11:10
lbtGAN800: I'm an architect - you need a developer ;)11:10
GAN800Bluetooth networking should be split into PAN and DUN.11:10
lbtfor any real work11:10
GAN800and cleaned up.11:10
GAN800Bluetooth keyboards needs a cleanup.11:11
GAN800Need a Bluetooth mice article11:11
GAN800Need more grunt workers. . . .11:11
XTLarmy of peons11:13
GAN800"Work, work."11:13
lbtOK - gotta feed the cats11:14
GAN800My car currently thinks she wants to go outside to talk to the opossum.11:15
* lbt throws GAN800 a biscuit11:15
XTLOurs are probably taking the house apart now that the big cats are gone11:17
lirilbt: was just looking at that Logitech remote you told me about last night11:20
lirilbt: that's 399euros11:20
lirilbt: n8x0 + irreco gives you all that and more :)11:20
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lbtliri: not quite - the logitech (which is too expensive) is told what to display by the app11:24
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lbtirreco just throws commands at the client11:25
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lbtso it doesn't know what state the client is actually in11:25
lbtkinda like pressing the power button n times11:25
lbtis it on or off?11:25
lbtit's not a cat11:26
GAN800on, clearly, as it's receiving ir commands. :P11:26
lbtno - you're just sending them11:26
lbtthat's my point ;)11:27
lbtactually it's been nicked11:27
* GAN800 ups the default scrollbar width up another few pixels.11:29
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konttoriGAN800: did you also widen the scrollbar pixmap?11:46
konttori(out of curiosity)11:46
GeneralAntilleskonttori, way too lazy for that11:47
GeneralAntillesI may get around to it once I decide on a good width11:47
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GeneralAntillesRight now, the arrows on either end are surrounded by whitespace11:47
GeneralAntillesand the bar itself is repeated on the right.11:48
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GeneralAntillesLittle wonky, but it works much better with my thumb11:48
konttoriI've been asked to add that as a property to theme maker.11:48
konttorias in: scrollbar width/height11:48
GeneralAntillesand isn't nearly as oversized as those damn thumb scrollbars.11:48
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GeneralAntilleskonttori, Jaffa__ and Khertan were talking about a replacement Theme control panel to tweak stuff like that.11:49
konttoriyeah. I hear you. I also prefer to have the scrollbars about 2x wide as they are by default11:49
konttorisounds like a good idea to me.11:49
konttoriotoh: then you also need to change the pixmaps anyway11:49
Khertan_n810konttori: add also if you can the border size of the style osso-window-*11:49
konttoribut, I mean, on general, it sounds like a good idea11:49
konttoriAt least the previous versions had the ability to toggle it to 2 pixels11:50
konttoriI can'11:50
* GeneralAntilles is slowly seeding plans to have all Nokia closed-source applets replacement by much higher-quality and more-usable open-source community solutions.11:50
Khertan_n810generalantilles we talk about it11:50
konttorit remember if that is working on the current version or not11:50
Khertan_n810but i ve so many thing to do ...11:50
Khertan_n810that nothing isn done11:50
konttoriI know the feeling11:50
GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, I may be able to talk rm_you into putting it on his list. ;)11:50
konttoriwhich reminds me to get back to writing documentation11:50
wizahas anyone else noticed that keypad on device lock could be bigger11:51
GeneralAntillesSInce he's gonna be doing a replacement for the Display control panel anyway.11:51
GeneralAntillesYes, wiza, there's even a bug for it. ;)11:51
Khertan_n810why not11:51
wizaGeneralAntilles: good :)11:51
wizaGeneralAntilles: which bug, is someone working on it or...?11:52
GeneralAntilleswiza, search for it, I don't remember the number off-hand11:53
Khertan_n810huhu google has just blocked my calendar account11:53
GeneralAntillesIt has no @nokia activity.11:53
Khertan_n810maybe they don t like multiple access to their api11:53
Khertan_n810100 concurrent request :)11:53
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lirilol Khertan11:55
Khertan_n810they just ask for captcha ...11:57
Khertan_n810but i still waiting unlock11:57
Khertan_n810is it me or listening audio drain battery  fast ?11:58
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XTLHas anyone thought of making a non-candy music player like mpd work on the nit?13:09
kulvekilikali is non-candy13:10
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XTLI expect the decoding is what eats battery, but at least you could make it just do that and not race with a ui13:10
floriankulve: Doesn't sound that promising...13:10
XTLWell, that's not too bad.13:11
Jaffa__XTL: There are a number of mpd clients, at least13:13
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crashanddieI think I just went barking mad13:32
crashanddieMy clothing disappeared13:33
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GeneralAntillesJUST went? :P13:44
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* GeneralAntilles continues sewing a flag out of a large pile of clothing.13:44
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RST38hIs this flag also a part of maemo branding? =)13:48
GAN800Only when I sent a team of ninjas around the summit with branding irons with the flag on them.13:49
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crashanddiethat's it14:33
crashanddieI lost it14:33
crashanddiethe landlord came in, and I mentioned I lost my trousers and shirt14:33
crashanddiewe start looking everywhere14:33
crashanddieliterally, everywhere14:33
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crashanddiekitchen, laundryroom, common room, he's about to open the other rooms from the other tenants to check14:34
crashanddiewe go check one last time in my bedroom (and there's isn't a lot to hide there)14:34
crashanddieI pull the covers off, and we find the trousers and shirt neatly folded under a pillow14:35
crashanddieI have no fucking idea how it got there14:35
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MikaTcrashanddie: maybe someone had to take the current Matrix from the backup tape, then rewind a bit and play again...14:37
XTL"You know when you're at a big party, at the end of it everybody's asleep, the bloke who's on speed is always hoovering"14:38
crashanddieyeah, but the thing is, at any point in time, my clothes never got anywhere near the damned pillow14:38
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Stskeepskulve: hm, that a new Maemo base or?14:55
Stskeepskulve: looks darn interesting though14:56
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kulveStskeeps: not maemo based14:57
kulveI guess it's more for developing that using.. Definitely not for end users..14:57
Stskeepsah, i just recognized your name from somewhere, thought it was nokia :) you might be interested in my bootmenu patch that adds ability for multiboot to have a /linuxrc that is executed instead of initfs's changes. I use it in Deblet myself to avoid initfs fuckery :)
Stskeepsit gets rid of the need to have initfs rm stuff on your partition, but still makes you able to talk to dsme and such15:02
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usicowI just got my n810 today.. whats the preferred way to play around in its shell? Use a terminal window on the n810, or install openssh and ssh into it from a deaktop?15:08
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Stskeepsdepends on if you're a machocist or not15:09
Stskeepsi like ssh from a desktop since i dont like the keyboard :P15:09
usicow:) ok15:10
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usicowI guess its hard working with that little keyboard in a shell15:10
usicowdo you have an external keyboard for the n810 too?15:11
Stskeepskulve: we also have patches in Deblet for WPA/WEP encryption support, if you use the properitary umac atleast15:11
Stskeepsfor cx3110x15:11
Stskeepsi got NetworkManager with mine15:11
Stskeeps(with WPA/WPA2 etc)15:11
egyptusicow: definitely ssh15:12
egyptnot having pipe is a pain15:12
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usicowok cool.. just flashing it to OS 2008 first, and then I'll install openssh-server15:17
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timelesshello world15:23
timelesshas anyone here ever had ctrl-a in the browser location bar not work?15:23
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timelessegypt: try the british keylayout?15:24
timelessor is this the n810 hardware15:24
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timelessbecause the software vkb layouts are distinct for US/GB15:24
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kulveStskeeps: I'm very interested in those.15:29
roadiesIS there a PHP distro for maemo, to be exact an Apache PHP plugin?  I have the Apache distro but its missing PHP15:30
Stskeepskulve: lemme just dig it up.. sec15:30
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usicowIm trying to update to OS2008, but in the update wizard thing it says 'device not found'.. windows does see it though - I can browse the internal memory card.. any ideas whats going on?15:32
usicowI can see the USB logo15:33
Stskeepskulve: is the binary, you can test with this i guess, i'll try to see if i can find the source patches15:33
atulHI I am using sqlite3_open (DB, &db); when I try to wright something on run time it gives error message like "Can't execute: attempt to write a readonly database" How to resolve this problem ?15:34
atulHI all, For above problem I found solution of using sqlite3_open_v2(") which take SQLITE_OPEN_READWRITE flag but on maemo platform it says undefined.15:34
Stskeepskulve: deblet-cx3110x.patch15:37
Stskeepsi think this is the one, no warranties though15:38
Stskeepslooks like the correct one so15:38
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kulveStskeeps: thanks15:51
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ranithi, is there support for decibel on maemo dev15:52
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Stskeepskulve: your audio works fully in kaze? we might borrow that solution then since that's what we're missing :)15:54
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kulveStskeeps: well, not sure about the "fully" part, but at least the normal playback seemed to work16:00
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pupniksomebody write a nice robotron clone16:01
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mranostay_workanyone here can help me with a Maemo legacy question? what media indexer is on the Nokia images?16:04
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usicowis this what I should install for a termianl on the n810? osso-xterm - X Terminal Emulator for OS200816:32
lcukterminal is installed by default?16:32
usicowahh I see it.. cool thanks16:33
usicowI hate being a noob :)16:33
lcukdon't worry, we wont laugh at you (too much)16:33
lcukive totally forgotten what i came online for, ahhh well ill remember later16:34
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usicowI just installed bash2 via ssh into my n810, but in the middle of it a dialog box opened on the n810 saying that I have to issue the command bash-config to make it the default and stuff.. is there a way I can stop stuff like happening if Im ssh'ed in? Cause maybe I dont have physical access to my n810 at that time :)16:37
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usicowusing sftp and 802.11g network I should be able to get more than 200k/s uploading to the n810 right?16:51
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pupnikhi usicow16:54
pupniknever tried bash216:54
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usicowok, no worries16:55
pupnikbut some packages require you to click on dialog boxes16:55
pupniknot possible to do everything via ssh16:55
pupnikvnc works though16:55
usicowshame.. but I think I can live with that :)16:55
usicowoh thats a good idea.. I'll install vnc16:55
pupnikalso if you develop for the tablet16:56
pupnikor just want to use it from your desktop - you can install synergy to control the tablet with your pc kbd/mouse16:56
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pupnikmakes typing on the tablet quite convenient16:56
usicowyeah I read about that.. you think that works pretty well?16:56
pupniki wouldn't miss it16:58
usicowah, ok16:58
usicowI got another question.. I just uploaded some mp3's via sftp into the directory /root, but I cant find where they went on the n810 if I use the file manager :) where did they go?16:59
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pupnikeh the file manager is not made for people like me17:02
pupnikit hides stuff... that makes me chuck things at a wall17:03
pupnikspeaking of which, that's a good project - replacement filemanager and open dialog boxes17:03
usicowyeah,.. I can see :)17:03
pupnikusicow: ssh into root and ls /root17:04
usicowpupnik: yeah thats what I ended up doing.. I just wont make the mistake on uploading to /root again :)17:04
usicowI just mv'ed them to /home/user17:04
pupnikyeah :( or MyDocs17:04
pupniki symlinked MyDocs to my MMC card17:05
pupnikthat way i can store big crap and see it easily in filemanager / open dialogs17:05
usicowgot ya17:05
pupnikright in Video, Audio whatever17:05
Khertanhi ...17:13
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pupnikhi Khertan17:16
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crashanddieanyone want to beta test a small app ? And tell me what they think of it ?17:29
crashanddieYou'll need to install wget/libxml++/libsdl_ttf17:30
Khertancrashanddie > what does it do ?17:31
crashanddieit retrieves an XML file that is compiled every 10 minutes, containing tags about the latest news stories, and displays those. At the moment it's just about testing SDL, and the panning17:32
crashanddielater on, you'll be able to view the stories related to a given tag17:33
crashanddieBasically, RSS on steroids17:33
usicowpupnik: I can see vncviewer available via apt-cache search, but not the server.. can I run vnc server on the n810?17:34
crashanddieno one wanna try it ? :(17:34
KhertanRAHHHH ! i understand why i get error 400 in sync !17:35
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Khertangoogle id isn't permanent !17:35
Khertangreat idea17:35
crashanddiec'mon GeneralAntilles you're not doing anything anyway, give it a go :P17:35
usicowcrashanddie: sorry, Im just setting my new n810 up.17:36
crashanddieno problem :)17:36
crashanddieI'm out to get some fags anyway, bbl17:36
pupniki just realized that I get laid less often than i reboot computers17:36
crashanddiepupnik, which means you you're a well paid person17:36
RST38hcrashanddie: please stop doing that17:36
crashanddiedoing what ?17:37
* RST38h shudders every time the word is used in its british meaning17:37
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crashanddiewell, I'm talking the right language17:37
pupnikthis is very, very wrong17:37
crashanddienot that slang should be considered part of the "right language"17:38
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RST38h~lart VT17:41
* infobot stuffs VT into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it17:41
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usicowI just got an error 'not enough memory in target location' when isntalling rdesktop.. why would that be?17:50
Italodancehi pupnik17:51
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AndrewFBlackusicow how much free memory do you have on your tablet?17:52
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usicowAndrewFBlack: if I use the df command I can see the / is 99% full17:53
usicowis that the problem?17:53
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AndrewFBlackusicow that would be it17:54
usicowhmm ok.. the only thing I put on there was 88MB of mp3's though into /home/users/MyDocs17:55
AndrewFBlackyou installed a lot of programs?17:55
usicowAndrewFBlack: nah, not at all.. just bash2 I think,.. oh and skype17:55
crashanddieItalodance, canola2 isn't open source17:56
crashanddieusicow, the root filesystem is 128Mb17:56
AndrewFBlackusicow yeah the 88mb is alot I would move them to a card17:56
crashanddieusicow, n800 or n810 ?17:56
usicowits an n81017:57
crashanddieusicow, move them to the internal memory card then17:57
usicowok.. Im relativly new to linux, but how can I tell what partition /home/users is on?17:58
usicow/home/user rather17:59
usicowcause thats where I had put the mp3's17:59
Italodancecrashanddi do u have this new version?17:59
crashanddieItalodance, nope17:59
crashanddieusicow, well / is mounted on /dev/mtdblock4, so everything under it (and which is not specified in the mount table) will be mounted there18:00
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crashanddieusicow, so, considering /home is under /, well...18:00
SjBusicow you should do an apt-get clean I've notice that the apt archive dir was using all my hd space18:01
usicowcrashanddie: ahh18:01
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crashanddieyeah, or just rm -rf /var/cache/apt/archives/*.deb18:01
usicowSjB: ok I'll do that.18:01
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cbx333hi all18:01
cbx333what's the easiest way to rotate the screen....?18:01
cbx333does it even work?18:01
crashanddieyes it does18:01
cbx333i saw something about xrandr18:02
cbx333and tried to install sliderotate18:02
cbx333but it said it couldn't find xrandr18:02
crashanddiecbx333, you running diablo or chinook18:02
cbx333chinook I think18:02
cbx333how can I tell18:02
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cbx333it's been a while since I last flashed18:02
usicowwith the root file system being so small doesnt everyone complain that they cant install all the programs they want?18:02
cbx333maybe Ishould upgrade18:03
cbx333crashanddie: ?18:03
crashanddiecbx333, well, I only tried it on diablo, and it was pretty straightforward18:03
crashanddieI don't know if a lot changes under chinook18:03
cbx333I'll try and get diablo tonight18:03
crashanddieusicow, it is possible to install the rootfs on an external memory card18:03
* cbx333 starts a backup18:04
crashanddiecbx333, note the link under the "Update" section, which points to the how-to for diablo18:04
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usicowcrashanddie: do people do that? Or is that bad for performance or something?18:05
crashanddieusicow, quite some people did/do it18:05
cbx333crashanddie: and that's the latest kernel?18:05
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crashanddieusicow, but it makes sense to do it on a external memory card (not the internal one), as you can change the external one, if something goes wrong (corrupt card, worn out, whatever)18:06
usicowcrashanddie: I see ok.18:06
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cbx33350% backed up18:07
crashanddiecbx333, I followed the instructions for diablo, used the files that were provided, didn't have any problem18:07
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cbx333presumably you still need xrandr18:10
crashanddiecbx333, yes, advanced backlight only provides an easy to use interface when you have installed support for it18:11
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usicowIm not sure what happened, but now when I go to Catalogues in the application manager its blank :( how can I get back the default catalogues?18:13
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usicowdamn.. it was because my root partition was full again18:19
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usicowis there a nice way to see how much CPU is being used?18:37
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AndrewFBlackusicow loadapplet shows cpu usage18:40
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* Khertan_n810 still doesn t understand why he get reset by peer error from gdata while retrieving only one evzent !18:50
RST38hpeer hates you!18:50
Khertan_n810this is like this 400 error which occur sometime18:51
Khertan_n810and same request work 30s later18:51
RST38hMeanwhile, Motorola cluster fuck continues...18:51
Khertan_n810does gdata is still in beta18:52
Khertan_n8101570: GtkWarning: gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to allocate widget with width 720 and height -918:53
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GNUtonHi there18:57
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Khertan_n810hi gnuton18:58
GNUtonHey Khertan_n810 :)18:59
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JZAhi how can I get some CLI for maemo19:47
JZAI am looking for tools such as wget19:48
crashanddieapt-get install wget19:48
JZAanyone here?19:49
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* johnx is here19:49
Khertan_n810i m back19:49
JZAErr diablo/free wget 1.10.2-2osso219:49
JZA  Temporary failure resolving ''19:49
JZAFailed to fetch  Temporary failure resolving ''19:49
JZAE: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?19:49
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Khertan_n810JZA: under sb ?19:50
johnxJZA, "works for me" (tm)19:50
JZAKhertan_n810: sb?19:50
johnxsb = scratchbox19:50
JZAno I have diablo 4.0.119:50
Khertan_n810so pray a bit much and try again19:51
johnxcan you ping
johnxand can you reach from your desktop?19:51
JZAok is working now19:51
* Khertan_n810 pray that his sync will finish in reset by peer error19:52
johnxI guess that's why it's a "Temporary failure" :)19:52
JZAbtw any IRC client for diablo19:52
JZAxchat didn't make it to diablo19:52
johnxxchat is in maemo extras19:52
JZAneither pidign19:52
crashanddieJZA, of course they did19:52
* johnx uses xchat on his n80019:53
crashanddieand I use pidgin/xchat on my n81019:53
JZAI used xchat on n800 for chinook19:53
JZAbut there is no 2008 version19:53
crashanddieJZA, diablo AND chinook == 200819:53
JZA2007 then19:53
crashanddieJZA, and most chinook packages are compatible with diablo19:53
JZAok let me try19:54
crashanddieJZA, like I said, google19:54
johnxxchat is in the diablo extras repository19:54
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Khertan_n810i use it currently :)19:56
JZAok this is odd my sources.list are empty19:56
johnxmaemo is not debian. :) your repos are under /etc/apt/sources.list.d/19:57
Khertan_n810debian use .d too19:57
johnxit puts base stuff in sources.list though19:57
* Stskeeps plays with his semi-gui deblet installer19:58
Khertan_n810noone have the time to help me to make a better gui for mcontacts ?19:58
* johnx catches up on the news after having been AFK for 48 hours19:58
Stskeepsjohnx: i'm putting out a "please beta test my now more easy installer" post in some hours when i've tested i can install fully :P I made a "Install Deblet" icon that runs roxterm and uses zenity for many questions :P20:00
johnxvery cool20:00
johnxI have a working install now with lxde and it's quite fast20:00
johnxI even use gdm20:00
johnxmemory usage is only a couple percent and it can be swapped out easily I bet20:00
Stskeepsalso regarding sound, Kaze (some other armel dist for n800) had some stuff that might work - i added hint to Deblet has no sound thread20:01
AndrewFBlackkhertan_n810 I got the time if you teach me how lol20:01
lcukui design is something you can do with a piece of paper and a pen (or liqbase)20:01
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AndrewFBlackWell yeah I can design it but I cna't make it20:01
Stskeepsjohnx: also with the new introduction of "linuxrc"'s into boot menu, it's possible to make things like "boot into ext2 image file" :>20:02
Stskeepswhich is darned slow but neat20:02
zethero1How do i change the default application for opening video files?20:02
johnxStskeeps, then we can just ship a prepared before :P20:02
johnxzethero1, not all that easily. lookup dbus-switchboard20:03
Stskeepsjohnx: i plan to have "Install onto a file on your MMC"20:03
Khertan_n810AndrewFBBlack: i just need a glade file20:03
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JZAKhertan so I installed the Extra repo from here but still cant find xchat20:03
JZAneither apt-cache search xchat helped20:05
JZAcan u provide the URI of the Extra repo?20:05
lcuksearch will only search within your setup repos20:05
lcuki dont know which repo its in, i installed it months ago from an old deb i found20:05
JZAright, I thought I just enabled the Extra repo on that site20:06
johnxzethero1, look at dbus-switchboard20:06
JZAlcuk: so it wasn't a diablo package?20:06
JZAok that might change things20:06
lcukno, at the time it was a chinook beta test thing20:06
johnxJZA, It might be in extras-devel or something20:06
lcukbut i heard it got put into some maemo extras repo or another20:06
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AndrewFBlackKhertan_810 I'm willing to help if you want me to20:07
johnxJZA, yeah extras-devel20:07
johnxJZA, also use this to search for things: xchat site:repository.maemo.org20:07
Khertan_n810AndrewFBlack: do u know how to use glade ?20:08
AndrewFBlackKhertan_n810 I've never used it before but I think I will pick it up easly20:09
Ghjmedoes nokia n810 have 2d acceleration?20:09
Khertan_n810yep ... not very difficult ... but a little boring to use ... and to make great looking gui20:09
lcukGhjme, the nokia n810 has 2d AND 3d de-acceleration20:09
Khertan_n810but no driver yet :)20:10
JZAok that worked20:10
AndrewFBlackI've made some UI before beleave it or not anything I cna do at work I consider fun lol20:10
Khertan_n810there is to simplify the same 3d processor than in the iphone at a lower frequency20:10
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Khertan_n810AndrewFBlack: can i send you the current glade file by mail ?20:11
Ghjmeis the ui speed decent?20:11
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AndrewFBlackyeah andrewfblack@gmail.com20:11
johnxGhjme, it depends on the app. overall it's ok, but not "really fast"20:12
johnxGhjme, was there any app you had in mind?20:13
JZAwhat abotu pidgin? I can't see pidign on extras or extra-devel20:14
AndrewFBlackKhertan_n810 any certain look your going for?20:14
Ghjmejohnx: no not any specific20:14
Khertan_n810something that can be use without stylus :)20:14
johnxJZA, I guess it's only available in the chinook extras repo20:15
JZAjohnx would it run on diablo?20:15
JZAI only got this repo
johnxJZA, I would assume so20:15
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johnxJZA, look further down :)20:16
AndrewFBlackkhertan_810 ok send it over when you get a chance and I'll take a look at it tonight20:16
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JZAright but this is 3.2 not 4.x20:16
johnxJZA, look. further. down. the. page.20:16
zethero1johnx: looks kinda complex ... But thanks for the heads up20:16
Khertan_n810AndrewFBlack: mail sent. thanks for your help20:17
AndrewFBlackno problem I'll give it a try.20:18
Khertan_n810i ve send you the entire project20:18
Khertan_n810there is also the python code20:18
Stskeepsjohnx: you bored to check an .install file for diablo that i'm not sure works? (it doesn't -actually- install bootmenu and deblet, but it installs the installers for them)20:18
Khertan_n810but if you change ui it ll crash20:18
johnxStskeeps, heh. I just booted to debian to work on sound :)20:19
zethero1Is it possible to watch video over the network?20:19
Khertan_n810and don t sync twice time ... it will wipe many informations of your gmail contacts20:19
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Stskeepsjohnx: hehe, alright :)20:19
AndrewFBlacklol ok good to know20:20
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Khertan_n810i wipped mine test account20:20
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Khertan_n810hum mcalendar can now sync multiple calendar :)20:21
AndrewFBlackyou started work on mtasts yet?20:21
Khertan_n810just need to do more test20:21
Khertan_n810tastes ? :)20:21
Khertan_n810mtasks already exists20:21
AndrewFBlacklol ok20:21
Khertan_n810but not very goof20:22
Khertan_n810and no sync20:22
Khertan_n810as there isn't google tasks20:22
AndrewFBlackcould you sync mTasks with google Notebook?20:22
Khertan_n810nope ... no end date, no status20:22
Khertan_n810on google notebook20:23
AndrewFBlackhow about a mNotes then :)20:23
Khertan_n810but i ll make later a google mNotes20:23
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dannymhi :)20:23
AndrewFBlackwhat would be real nice is something to sync my Google Docs20:24
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Khertan_n810hum ...20:24
Khertan_n810there isn t editor for document yet20:24
Khertan_n810so this will be hard to do :)20:24
Khertan_n810and from what i ve see syncing google docs is painful20:25
AndrewFBlackyeah I would think it is20:25
Khertan_n810as you can t keep category20:25
lcukyou can email documents between it from what i understand20:25
Khertan_n810otherwhile i could make the sync in a folder20:25
AndrewFBlackTo tell the truth on documents I would be happy with 1 way sync to the tablet just for viewing20:26
Khertan_n810with subfolder for category20:26
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AndrewFBlackicuk yeah you can email them in I've done it before20:27
lcukAndrewFBlack, i dont know how you managed it, but you managed to find a variation on my nick thats actually harder to say than my proper one20:28
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AndrewFBlacklcuk I'm just that good20:29
Khertan_n810i see u k !20:29
GAN800Somebody want to find the old bug and dupe this?
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GNUtonHi bergie! :)20:33
bergieI'm just popping in for a moment between swordfighting practice and some beer :-)20:34
johnxbergie, just as long as you never do that in a different order :)20:34
bergierarely, rarely20:35
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Khertan_n810GAN800: #205120:36
GAN800Ahaaaa, thanks!20:36
* GAN800 gets really lazy when he's on the tablet.20:37
Khertan_n810but i ll not edit it ... i m on tablet too20:37
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Khertan_n810GAN800: there is a bugzilla ui for the tablet ? or it s not maintain20:38
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GAN800I've found that all bugzilla clients just plain suck20:38
lcukfile a bug20:39
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Khertan_n810not worse than using microb20:40
GAN800lol, the KDE guys are already filing bugs.20:41
GAN800They need to learn how to upgrade, judging by some version numbers.20:41
Khertan_n810bug for what ?20:41
Khertan_n810kde guys :)20:42
GAN800Khertan, WAAAAY worse than using MicroB.20:42
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timelessgan: where are the bugs?20:43
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Stskeepsheh, it's apparent that the kde people have gotten n810s.. they're blogging about it on which i follow20:44
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GAN800timless, #3617 for one.20:46
Khertan_n810hum ... not a good idea20:46
GAN800There are a couple others.20:46
johnxto be fair, there was a lot of good written in Qt for various zauruses20:46
lcukStskeeps, they were given freebies last week20:46
GAN800Man, I'm a 'technological primma donna' now.20:46
Stskeepsreal hackers buy the tablets themselves, fall in love, and hack on them all day20:47
johnxGAN800, primma? whoever called you that is a createev spellerer20:47
crashanddieanyone with Diablo wanting to do me a favour ?20:48
GAN800Awesome thread, btw.20:48
johnxGAN800, will I regret this?20:48
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GAN800johnx, it's pretty hilarious.20:49
Stskeepsthe wet slot one?20:49
Khertan_n810johnx > the zaurus ui is ... horrible20:49
Stskeepsah, or that one20:49
GAN800No, the 'I'm Black and I need Help' one20:49
johnxKhertan, not the UI in general, but some of the nice Qt apps20:49
crashanddieI'll rephrase that: I need someone with diablo, I'll give him a cookie and buy him a beer at the Summit20:50
crashanddieI just disqualified everyone who doesn't come to the summit20:50
dannymcrashanddie: sure, what favour? :)20:50
GAN800I might do you a 'favor'. :P20:50
crashanddieGAN800, stfu you redneck20:51
crashanddiedannym, apt-get install wget libxml++2.6c2a libsdl-ttf2.0-020:51
crashanddie(on the tablet, of course)20:51
Stskeepsgod.. debootstrap and huge apt-get is possible worse than watching XP install20:51
GAN800crashanddie, stfu you drug addict. :P20:52
crashanddieand then: wget && wget && chmod +x cloudreader20:52
AndrewFBlackI don't know who posted under a fake name on that I'm black and need help thread but they need some balls I disagree with people all the time and get flamed prob more then most people and I always use my login20:52
Khertan_n810disqualified for what ?20:52
Khertan_n810AndrewFBlack: do like me ... don t feed the troll20:53
Khertan_n810so .... bye20:53
AndrewFBlackwhich troll the want to be black one or the one who posted under fake name :)20:53
johnxGAN800, the funny part was when they invoked your name in the one thread you *didn't* post in20:54
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GAN800johnx, plus the irony of bitching about having to search in a thread where every bit of information the guy could want is right there.20:55
johnxsome people are really just completely search impaired. they look at a blank search form and they just freeze up20:55
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GAN800I'm moving more and more towards just abandoning that hellhole for good.20:55
johnxI don't know what it is...20:55
AndrewFBlackI think we should ask Reggie to compare Ips and see who posted under a dummy account20:55
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AndrewFBlackGA if you leave who am I going to talk shit about all the time :)20:56
johnxGAN800, you need to let some threads go. They'll either figure it out on their own or not. no need to worry about it. if no one posts it will just drop off the front page and they'll figure it out or not20:56
GAN800When innocent comments get 'ur uh d-bag!', it's time to move on.20:56
GAN800At least on other forums I have other d-bags to duke it out with.20:57
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GAN800But fighting with idiots is neither interesting nor enjoyable.20:57
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johnxthe people with half a clue don't care enough to fight20:58
Stskeepsi just enjoy the Alternative forums, they are pretty much quiet :P20:58
crashanddiedannym, ?20:58
AndrewFBlackI'm offened GA doesn't concider me a d-bag with him20:58
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johnxGAN800, we could stage a big fight. :D see how many people back each of us without knowing what we're fighting about :)20:59
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GAN800If you want to see truely epic d-baggery, check out 'thomm' on the AmbrosiaSW forum for Redline.20:59
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AndrewFBlacklol johnx that would be funny as hell21:00
crashanddiewhat's so funny about hell ?21:00
johnxcrashanddie, clowns21:01
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crashanddieO RLY ?21:01
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johnxcrashanddie, strue21:02
GAN800The big arguments are the best.21:02
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roadiesanyone have experience setting up a applic package have time for a few questions on the process21:02
GAN800Thanks!-whoring is never better than when the flames are highest. ;)21:02
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roadiesIs using Ubuntu or just vanilla Debian better?21:04
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crashanddieGAN800 is an alien who fuels off trolls and flamewars21:04
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crashanddieroadies, define:better21:04
AndrewFBlackitT has never seen a good flameware21:05
lirihםw come pyano isn't in my repos?21:05
crashanddiethat's because I'm not on it regularly21:05
liriis it sוpposed to be on chinook or diablo?21:05
roadiesI'm porting a applic over to a n810 (apache with php), I have the maemo devel environ working on my Fedora but I think I need to use a debian distro to get it to the n81021:06
GAN800liri, because Aisu hasn't pushed it.21:07
roadiesso I need to build a system, which on is easier Ubuntu or Debian and if Ubuntu will I run into the same problem with the packaging process21:07
liriGAN800:  he really should :)21:07
johnxwhat are your current problems with the packaging process. you should be able to do it inside scratchbox...21:08
roadiesjohnx: page 451 of the refer manual says to "tar xvfz" the run a deb process against the tar file, Fedora does rpm not deb stuff.21:09
roadiesand the n810 doesnt have a tar supporting "z" compress21:09
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RST38htar cvzf - files |gzip >target21:10
RST38hsorry, you want uncompress...21:10
johnxroadies, hang on a sec and I'll read the page, but you should be able to do packaging inside scratchbox21:10
crashanddiedannym, any news man ?21:10
CptLaptopwhats the webcomic reader app called again, anyone?21:10
RST38hthen gzcat source.tgz |tar xvf -21:10
crashanddiedannym, PM me, I'm off to eat something21:10
dannymcrashanddie: installing :)21:12
dannymcrashanddie: okay21:12
roadiescrashhanddie: the other issue is I can compile everything just great in the DIABLO_X86 environment but not in the DIABL0_ARM environ....aka... "make install fails" dont I need to do that to port to the n810?21:12
crashanddiedannym, well, now I'm still here21:12
crashanddiewtf you talking to me for roadies ?21:13
neilpwcCptLaptop: just a regular image viewer?21:13
crashanddieroadies, You should probably try to install all the compilation tools you installed under X86 on DIABLO_ARM too, as they don't share the same installed package list21:14
roadiesI dont cause I type the wrong name....I am very sorry...... meant to direct to johnx21:14
crashanddielol... From johnx to crashanddie, quite a leap my friend ;)21:14
roadiescrashhanddie...its been a long long day...21:15
johnxroadies, try putting the actual error messages on pastebin...there's lots of things that can fail :)21:15
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* johnx knows about long days O_o21:15
crashanddieroadies, try typing "cra" and then hitting the tab key on your keyboard21:15
johnxroadies, page 451 of which manual?21:15
crashanddiedannym, you're killing me :P21:17
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roadiesJohnx: Maemo_Diablo_reference_manual_for_maemo_4.1.pdf off the maemo webpage21:18
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dannymcrashanddie: (libsigc+-2.0-0c2a, libglibmm-2.4-1c2a and libxml++2.6c2a are unsigned it says... I'm overriding it)21:18
dannymcrashanddie: yeah well, my internet connection isn't exactly fast... best grab something to eat, it will take a few minutes... I'll be here the whole time :D21:19
crashanddiedannym, yeah well, my timing's off, I have a few minutes of my own :)21:20
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johnxroadies, what happens if you do that stuff inside scratchbox?21:25
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roadiesjohnx: "make"s work fine in both DIABLO_X86 and DIABLO_ARM, "make install" has problems in DIABLO_ARM and I have not tried running the backage stuff within scratchbox.  I didnt know you could do that so let me try21:27
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roadiesJohnx: correction:  backage should be package21:28
roadiesJohnx:  but let me ask, am I correct in assuming, I need to build within the DIABLO_ARM envirnoment since its for the n810.  And do I really need to do the make install step anyway?  Isnt that taken care of by the packaging ?21:30
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crashanddiedannym, lol... Are you connected through a 1994 dial-up modem ?21:33
liriis it possible to add programs to the applications menu? I took a look at panels in control panel but it's not possible there21:33
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dannymcrashanddie: no, I'm connected through a usbnet cable... bear with me :)21:34
crashanddieok :)21:34
dannymcrashanddie: one of the things I should fix is to find a Wireless Hotspot somewhere instead ;)21:34
Anunakinhi! all!21:34
mikkov_liri: add .desktop file to /usr/share/applications/hildon21:34
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roadiesJohnx:  I have to bolt home, got people screaming at me.... talk l8r thanks for the help21:35
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GeneralAntillestimeless, I don't think I'm going to bother filing a bug for the About product control panel/21:46
GeneralAntillesThat's a change for Fremantle21:46
* timeless sighs21:48
timelessyou really should have21:48
timelessanyway, i'm going home21:48
GeneralAntillesI mean, I will if you want me to. :P21:48
GeneralAntillesI just don't thinks it's something that'll change early.21:49
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vandenoeverwhat is the most convenient way of doing development for maemo?22:00
vandenoeveri've been playing with scratchbox, but it corrupts quite easily22:00
vandenoevercould it be a good idea to have a real virtual machine?22:00
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mgedminthere isn't one22:01
mgedminthe least inconvenient way is probably the vmware image22:01
mgedminbut I'm not sure there's one with the latest sdk in it22:01
mgedminwhat sort of scratchbox corruption do you see?22:01
vandenoeverldd crashing22:01
mgedminwith what error?22:01
vandenoeverapt-get not working anymore22:01
mgedminnetwork connection issues?22:02
vandenoevermgedmin: segmentation fault22:02
vandenoevermgedmin: no, network is fine22:02
mgedminooh, segfault22:02
vandenoeveryeah, for ldd, that seems pretty serious to me22:02
vandenoeveri heard of a guy who does maemo development that he runs scratchbox in a vm to be sure it does not kill his fs22:03
vandenoevermaybe hes' paranoid, but i'm a bit unsure about using scratchbox now22:03
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jottas always, you should know what you do before pressing enter :)22:05
jottvandenoever: one easy way is to setup a new target, then backup the target and just restore it later if you need to.22:06
dannym*@#! RNDIS (USB networking) kernel module just crashed both in the device _and_ on the host22:06
vandenoeverjott: backup means 'tar cjf /home/me/scratchbox.tar.bz2 /scratchbox' ?22:06
lcukvandenoever, maybe he uses vmware not because of the corruption from scratchbox itself, but from the corruption of installing and configuring it - the vmware image is all nicely setup and you dont have to mess22:07
lcukhi mgedmin :) did you enjoy your holiday22:07
jottvandenoever: no, look at /scratchbox/users/$USER/targets22:07
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mgedminhi lcuk22:07
mgedminkinda yeah, especially those days when it wasn't raining22:07
lcukthats always a bonus22:08
* lcuk hopes its sunny in berlin22:08
lcukjott, we need weather reports every day in the near future :P22:08
vandenoeverjott: i'll have to reinstall it first :-)22:08
jottvandenoever: you should be able to just setup a new target as it's unlikely that you broke scratchbox itself when you just where inside the pseudo chroot :)22:09
jottlcuk: rain, clouds, 13-23C :/22:10
vandenoeverjott: ok, i'll look into the target concept22:10
lcukwant sun and low-mid 40s ;)22:10
vandenoeverit's still 1 month away guys!22:10
lcukonly 1 month!22:10
* lcuk has tonnes to do22:11
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jottlcuk: berlin is not really in the south, even if you may think so from your location ;)22:12
lcukjott i think we are about even22:13
jottyeah more or less22:13
jottbut as northerner everything must be south :P22:14
jottbtw have you found an hotel/hostel?22:16
lirimikkov_: ahh thanks!22:16
lcuki booked it last night and sent my mail to the travel agent re flight just before22:16
jottaye where is it?22:16
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dannymcrashanddie: yep, works fine :)22:25
dannymcrashanddie: I see a loading screen...22:25
dannymcrashanddie: and then a big panable area with lots of words22:25
lcukjott berlin Stresemannstraße 49, 1096322:27
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lcukHoliday Inn Express Berlin City Centre - am Ku'Damm22:28
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jott"am Ku'Damm" haha very broad definition :)22:29
jotti used to live two blocks from there22:29
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lcukjott :) cool, how far from c-base then on foot, i know on the map but thats not the same22:33
nomiswalking from Kudamm to C-Base is not feasible AFAIK.22:34
housetierthat's too far indeed22:34
jottit's more or less möckernbrücke/anhalter bahnhof not kudamm but still it's a bit of a walk :)22:34
lcukyou dont know how far me and pupnik walked :P22:34
housetieryou should the s-bahn to "Jannowitzbrücke"22:34
housetieromg anhalter22:34
housetierwhen in doubt: take the s-bahn22:35
jottmh i guess u-bahn i better from there :P22:35
jottnot the best connection to jannowitzbrücke with public transportations :)22:35
housetiermaybe not from there22:35
jottyep, that's what i meant.22:36
housetierthis link is helpful I guess22:36
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jottlcuk: it's about 4km, if you like walking it's ok :)22:38
jottbut better hope you get a gps fix :P22:38
housetierI wonder if we the coordinates of c-base somewhere on the homepage22:39
jottthat link seems good too.22:41
jottwasn't there a wiki page for the people arriving? maybe put it there.22:42
housetierdoes this look accordingly: gps-data: N52°30.64' E13°25.22' (WGS84)22:42
rm_youaww, GeneralAntilles pinged me but it scrolled off <_<22:42
housetierjott, the one from the topic you mean?22:42
jotthmm i guess so.22:42
* jott looks22:42
jottnot followed the travel stuff as i don't need to travel :)22:43
housetierwikipedia seems to disagree: 52° 30′ 47" N, 13° 25′ 11" O22:43
jottaccording to google maps :)22:44
jott+52° 30' 46.43", +13° 25' 12.44"22:44
jottyeah wikipedia seems to be right.22:45
housetierwe should have had quim find out the coordinates when he was here22:45
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moontigeris the libmokoui stuff available on os2008 ?22:47
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GeneralAntillesrm_you, another control panel applet.22:50
GeneralAntillesFor tweaking themes and possible some matchbox settings.22:50
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: someone wants us to do it?22:58
rm_youlike... you? :P22:58
GeneralAntillesYes, me, of course. ;)22:58
GeneralAntillesNeither Jaffa__ nor Khertan seem to have the time.22:58
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GeneralAntillesSince you'll be working on a Control panel applet, ANYWAY. ;)22:59
JaffaUnfortunately not :(22:59
rm_youlol ok22:59
* Jaffa wants to finish mud changes before the summit, but hasn't really started on them.22:59
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Since you'll be working on a Control panel applet ANYWAY. ;)22:59
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rm_yousend me details in PM or something22:59
rm_youI have to run to the bank to pay rent22:59
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JaffaGrrr. And now my computer's hung doing NFSey and USBey stuff23:03
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Jaffa_juan was great. /msg'ed me effectively "a/s/l?". Nice to be wanted23:04
GeneralAntillesWelcome to AOL.23:05
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lirigoogle reader gives you it's own subscription address which is aggregated no?23:18
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RST38hafaik no23:19
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liriRST38h: surely there is some way for an rss reader to work with google reader23:21
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mgedminliri: opml export & import?23:29
mgedminthat'd get you the same subscriptions in both23:29
mgedminwouldn't help you keep read/unread status in google reader23:29
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lardmanevening chaps23:35
lardmanHow goes it Ryan?23:36
lirimgedmin: I'm new to RSS (surprisingly why...) so what's opml export/import?23:37
GAN800Well enough, delaying taking all of the patio furniture out of the pool until this stupid storm figures out where it wants to go to die.23:37
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lirimgedmin: google reader also has a notes functionality in style of RSS which is why I'm asking23:38
lardmanthe wonders of Florida ;)23:38
* lcuk ponders taking the patio furniture out of the muddy puddy at the bottom of his garden23:39
lcukpuddle even ffs23:39
lardmanyeah, all rain, no (swimming)pools over here23:40
lcuktheres a few, but they get closed down when youngsters leave deposits23:40
lardmanhmm, thanks for that!23:40
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lcukjake had to do the walk of shame the other day with the mrs.  he denied it whilst stood around23:41
* lardman wonders why Rhythmbox won't play...23:41
lcuk"ladies and gentlemen, the pool will be closed until tomorrow"23:41
lardmanah, poor kid23:41
GeneralAntillesPools suck23:41
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GeneralAntillesMostly just a pain in the ass to care for.23:41
lardmanunless you've not got one!23:42
GeneralAntillesThe idea is to know somebody with a pool23:42
lardmansod the pool, give me the sunshine!23:42
GeneralAntillesand use their's23:42
lardmangood plan23:42
GeneralAntillesVery overcast at the moment.23:42
lcukwhats the temp there? or don't i want to know23:42
GeneralAntilles80s, probably23:42
lardmanso warmer than here anyway23:43
lcukthe artic is warmer than here most days23:43
lardmanyeah well, you do live up North! ;)23:44
GeneralAntillesClouds are keeping the temp down a bit. . . .23:44
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* lcuk is gonna move somewhere else, even people in other countries take the piss out of my northernness23:44
* lcuk wonders how much complainin hes gonna get by turnin the wii off and sending the kids to bed..23:45
GeneralAntillesHehe, Wii.23:45
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lardman_rubbish internet connection23:47
GeneralAntillesThe nice thing about earthquakes and tornadoes is that you don't know they're coming.23:47
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GeneralAntillesHurricanes are too much damn stress.23:48
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RaytrayDon't watch the news.23:48
bef0rdThat won't stop the hurricanes23:48
RaytrayHe wouldn't know they're coming then23:48
lardman_ah, but I bet the weather plugin for maemo mapper would tell him :)23:49
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GeneralAntilles"If it goes out into the Gulf and builds up, am I gonna have to put plywood up on the 70-odd windows on the house?"23:49
RaytrayLeavethe plywood up?23:49
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GeneralAntillesI'm not even sure I could scrounge up the help to get them put up in the first place.23:50
* GeneralAntilles doesn't remember the last time they had to go up fondly.23:50
GeneralAntillesHey, at least they're all pre-cut now.23:50
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lardman_have fewer windows :p23:51
lcukinstall linux23:51
GeneralAntillesYeah, there's one plan.23:51
lcukwell that was less stressful than i figured it would be23:52
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GeneralAntillesI've got Microsoft's new plan for getting kids to hate Linux at a young age23:52
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GeneralAntillesShip homebrew kits to parents to use to stop them using their Wiis whenever the kids are bad.23:53
GeneralAntillesThey'll quickly learn to hate Tux.23:53
lcuki keep threatening to install linux on the eldests' DS23:53
lcukhe has a fit and wont let me near his stuff.  when he got guitar hero i threatened him with similar ;)23:54
GeneralAntillesBad person, lcuk.23:54
GeneralAntillesYou should save that as a reward if he's good. :P23:54
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lcukthe thing is, he used to have a ubuntu desktop and never once complained23:54
lcukGeneralAntilles, the 770 was shipped with a standalone clip together stand wasnt it23:56
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to write a "Developing on device" wiki article already.23:56
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, it was the shittiest thing you can imagine23:57
GeneralAntillesIf you tapped the screen offcenter it would fall off.23:57
lcukyes, i suppose someone does really23:57
* lcuk looks around23:57
lcukim just thinking i need something similar but bigger for my cradle23:57
GeneralAntillesTo act as a stand for the cradle?23:58
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GeneralAntillesWell, uh, they sell stands for hardcover books that might work.23:58
lcuki might just make another cradle to sit the current cradle in23:59
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GeneralAntillesI don't seem them online, but you should be able to find them in bookshops.23:59

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