IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-08-12

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andre___	eichi: i wonder if there's an official page listing the updated packages... anyway, maybe it helps tracking down: http://www.gnome.org/~aklapper/maemo/4.2008.30-2-updates-list	00:04
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eichi	damn, are all my installed applications away....what the f*	00:06
andre___	eichi: just to clarify: you were running Diablo before and have installed today's available updates?	00:07
eichi	yes	00:08
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andre___	hmm, bad. now i wonder if other people have also run into this issue...	00:09
GeneralAntilles	Did hildon-desktop just crash? :\	00:12
eichi	damn my dual boot menu is away too	00:14
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: my crystal globe says `yes'	00:14
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eichi	i dont like maemo...allways problems... :(	00:17
GeneralAntilles	eichi, sell it and move on then.	00:17
eichi	GeneralAntilles, its the only small linux device i know, if there would be some equal with other distribution i would do that	00:18
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bef0rd	put linux on it	00:19
mat	mmm, I just began the update... let's hope I won't loose everything as well :p	00:19
eichi	mat, do you have dual boot ?	00:20
GeneralAntilles	You wont.	00:20
GeneralAntilles	He didn't.	00:20
eichi	its only if you use dual boot with boot from sd	00:20
GeneralAntilles	andre___, on a sidenote, just copying over bugs like that one into the internal for the sake of copying them over seems like a good way to encourage more shitty Nokia participation. :\	00:22
andre___	GeneralAntilles, yeah, it doesn't improve things at all. but just stopping that doesn't either	00:22
andre___	i'm going to have a meeting with some nokia folks in two weeks, hope we can agree on some stuff to improve. in the long term this must stop, sure	00:23
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eichi	someone did update with dual boot system?	00:24
GeneralAntilles	andre___, if we can get them to look at bugzilla, maybe at least you could figure out a way to syndicate relevant bugzilla bugs into the internal tracker?	00:25
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GeneralAntilles	Rather than having two identical reports, one with lots of blathering from ill-informed users and one with useful chatter from Nokia engineers, bugzilla bugs that would normally be duped into the internal tracker would instead be syndicated there so the Nokia engineers don't get to hide.	00:26
* GeneralAntilles is really bored with the whole setup. . . .		00:26
mat	(I'm not using dual boot and update worked fine)	00:26
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andre___	GeneralAntilles, heh... yes and no. In the internal tracker there's a lot more of stuff with regard to versions, hardwares, internal testing links, and some parts of that i guess shouldn't be public (at least not in early stages)... that is the problem.	00:27
GeneralAntilles	Nokia needs to pull its head out of its own ass and learn how to work in the community.	00:29
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GeneralAntilles	Otherwise all the hot air about openness is exactly that.	00:29
andre___	totally right	00:29
GeneralAntilles	It'd be nice if we could get the managers behind the change.	00:30
andre___	but you can't get that done from one day to the next. you have to talk to people and convince them	00:30
andre___	and show them the advantages	00:30
GeneralAntilles	Two years of trying has resulted in very little.	00:30
GeneralAntilles	It wears thin after a while. ;)	00:30
andre___	i can understand that (though i myself don't know much about the last two years)	00:30
andre___	GeneralAntilles, but you need arguments... "having things open is better" won't work, it's more the "get in touch with your passionate community (and beta-testers) to get things done faster" :)	00:33
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GeneralAntilles	It's seemingly impossible to get to people inside of Nokia, though. :\	00:33
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GeneralAntilles	The few people that are in the open are already convinced.	00:34
GeneralAntilles	So talking at them wont do anything	00:34
GeneralAntilles	Goes back to the communication issue	00:34
GeneralAntilles	I mean, Quim is great and all, but having one choke point like that doesn't work.	00:35
andre___	No, that's why the maemo community people have some discussions (personal, or email) with managers (me too) to change their thinking	00:35
andre___	no, quim on his own of course can't change the entire company culture :)	00:35
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milhouse	@andre - thanks for the update on bug 2770 (/dev/urandom etc.), I didn't want to spam the whole thread with a "Thank you, you're wonderful" post :)	00:37
milhouse	thread => bug report	00:37
GeneralAntilles	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Tablet_OS#SSU	00:38
andre___	milhouse, heh, sure...	00:38
* GeneralAntilles sighs.		00:38
GeneralAntilles	God I hate him so much.	00:38
GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=212534&postcount=80	00:39
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GeneralAntilles	Slow damn clipboard	00:39
GeneralAntilles	Somebody please pick that bullshit apart.	00:39
GeneralAntilles	I'm too tired.	00:39
milhouse	+1 successful system update! that was rather smashing. :)	00:39
GeneralAntilles	AbelMN has the incredible ability to say the dumbest crap.	00:40
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andre___	to comment on that I should have actually taken a look at the ITt wiki before :)	00:40
GeneralAntilles	It's shit.	00:40
GeneralAntilles	Actually, I did a lot of the work to make it less shitty.	00:40
GeneralAntilles	But it's still shit.	00:40
GeneralAntilles	The "ZOMG THIS IS ALL TOO TECHNICAL N U GUYZ R ASSHOLES" line is getting to me.	00:41
andre___	ah well... calm down, relax, get a beer (or swap the timezone if it's too early) :)	00:42
milhouse	andre - regarding nokia versions, hardwares, internal testing links etc., how is it that other public projects successfully keep sensitive/private bug reports hidden in their public bugzilla? Is this not "safe" enough for Nokia, when it seems safe enough for Mozilla to restrict access to their security bugs etc.	00:42
andre___	milhouse, Mozilla does not ship hardware. That's a huge difference	00:43
milhouse	what about security bugs affecting 10m+ users?	00:43
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milhouse	or have i just missed your point?	00:44
andre___	don't know if mozilla has a non-disclosure policy or not	00:44
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andre___	milhouse, it's quite often that there are special mailing lists for security bugs to inform (linux) distributions to ship an update at the same day, and not make the bug public before	00:45
milhouse	i don't know either, but I know that the Mozilla bugzilla has private bugs that are restricted access, Logitech/Slim Devices (hardware manufacturer) have private bugs etc.	00:45
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milhouse	I struggle to understand why Nokia is so "special" or "different" here	00:45
milhouse	re special mailing lists - the bugs are opened up once the bug is fixed/released... Nokia could do the same with their bugs once the hardware is released/announced etc.	00:46
andre___	indeed, that's what i want to find out too. definitely because there's also hardware involved, and maybe because some stuff, e.g. links to the testing infrastructure, is probably also something considered secret	00:46
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nemo	milhouse: big companies aren't good on flexibility or unknowns	00:46
andre___	having private bugs is not the issue here. it's more about the whole bug life cycle management includes parts that aren't considered to be made public i guess	00:47
andre___	and discussing why people (deciders) consider some stuff secret is what it's about	00:47
andre___	if you can convince them that it doesn't need to be secret it's good. but that's not easy	00:47
milhouse	ok, well maybe you're right - but other projects seem to get around it just fine, and not mickey mouse projects but large one, hardware ones, etc.	00:47
bef0rd	OT: is gmail down atm?	00:48
GeneralAntilles	Clearly there are some things Nokia needs to keep secret	00:48
andre___	milhouse, give me examples, the more knowledge, the easier to convince them when having meetings or exchanging mail	00:48
GeneralAntilles	but clearly the scope of what they keep secret now is far too broad.	00:48
milhouse	bef0rd: yep, seems to be down here (UK)	00:48
milhouse	bef0rd: "Information is temporaryily unavailable" on my iGoogle	00:48
GeneralAntilles	Make it simple, open source things track in bugzilla, closed things in the internal tracker.	00:49
andre___	GeneralAntilles, right. and some of the things that even i see part of being secret are currently part of a bug's life in the internal tracker, unfortunately	00:49
GeneralAntilles	The code is there for all to see, and the bugs should be too.	00:49
andre___	sure, that's what i also want to propose	00:49
milhouse	andre: Logitech/Slim Devices operate a bugzilla with restricted access bugs (can't give you any #'s but I came across one the other day which said "Restricted, naff off" or words to that effect) http://bugs.slimdevices.com/	00:49
GeneralAntilles	Time wasted on stupid administrative overhead syncing between internal and external is a good argument.	00:50
andre___	definitely +1. just need to look at more internal bug tickets from totally open projects and which info is in there that might be argument of discussion to not do it	00:50
milhouse	Slim Devices ship hardware, Squeezeboxes, Transformers, Duets etc.	00:50
milhouse	Mozilla is the other one, of course	00:50
GeneralAntilles	Slows down bug diagnosis and fixing.	00:50
bef0rd	milhouse, thanks!	00:50
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, gotta pick my folks up from the airport.	00:50
GeneralAntilles	Later all.	00:50
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* GeneralAntilles steps back, relaxes.		00:51
milhouse	andre: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=50788&highlight=secret	00:51
milhouse	KDF is one of the Slim Devices developers (but not an employee)	00:51
andre___	again, i don't think you can compare mozilla. they don't ship hardware, they don't have "commercial testing cycles" (or however to express)	00:51
andre___	and mozilla will not get sued if they ship broken software, while i guess that nokia might be afraid of that. (just guesses.)	00:52
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andre___	milhouse, the problem can't be solved by having secret bugs	00:52
milhouse	no, but what I was getting at was how secure the mechanism is to protect bugs - is it reliable and not easy to hack? If it's reliable then Nokia could potentially use it - if Mozilla use this mechanism to restrict access to security related bugs then I'm pretty sure it's quite reliable	00:52
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andre___	the problem right now is that every internal report includes some info that some "deciders" consider to be not public	00:53
milhouse	andre: maybe so, but it's also about removing the barriers to getting the nokia developers involved	00:53
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milhouse	grrrrr... management. :)	00:53
andre___	heh :)	00:53
andre___	err... it is reliable, we use it in GNOME too. but it has nothing to do with the problem we discuss here :)	00:54
andre___	we can't set ALL bugs to private ;-)	00:54
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andre___	...but that's a good discussion here, it helps me collecting arguments and getting some thoughts and opinions. thanks :)	00:55
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andre___	bef0rd, fyi several people in the gnome irc channels say that they can't access gmail too	00:56
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wiza	is there any release notes about today's updates?	00:59
wiza	map/feature upgrade?	00:59
milhouse	crikey, changelogs have been promised for so long now	00:59
andre___	i can offer you the list of updated packages, and querying maemo bugzilla for resolved bugs with target milestone 4.1+ set	01:00
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milhouse	andre: pulling bug refs from bugzilla would be a good start - that's what we've been asking for a long, long time (at one point it was promised, about 3 releases ago I think...)	01:01
milhouse	although do we actually know these bugs have been fixed?	01:01
milhouse	i always got the impression that the process was a little "chaotic", possibly because of the two tracking systems...	01:02
andre___	it should be correct. otherwise you can blame me in lots of cases ;-)	01:02
milhouse	never :)	01:02
andre___	it would be also chaotic when only having one tracking system, i promise you ;-))	01:02
milhouse	there's a mail thread discussing the upstream issues, but tracking our own bugs shouldn't be an onerous task	01:03
andre___	mail thread? where?	01:03
milhouse	here we are - I think I know the annoying weaselbag who kicked it off... http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/20045?nohighlight=1#20045	01:05
andre___	i'm confused - what mailing list is that? it doesn't seem to be maemo-developers@maemo.org	01:08
milhouse	it is - it's a different format	01:08
milhouse	it must be syndicated	01:09
andre___	why isn't that in the archives in http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers then?	01:09
milhouse	should be...	01:09
andre___	i'm subscribed to maemo-developers@maemo.org	01:09
andre___	and i haven't seen those postings	01:09
andre___	what the	01:09
andre___	oops.	01:10
andre___	ok.	01:10
milhouse	:)	01:10
andre___	all is 2007, sorry	01:10
andre___	i somehow read 2008	01:10
milhouse	yep - 18 months ago... hah! 2008? :)	01:10
andre___	i'm a newbie, bare with me :)	01:10
milhouse	nah, this has been a topic that surfaces with every release... probably since the earliest days	01:10
andre___	maybe time to renew that topic	01:10
milhouse	sounds like a great idea	01:11
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milhouse	a jakub alluded to, a simple list of bugs based on target milestones shouldn't be too hard to produce - but would be a leap forward in terms of what we've been getting since the first releases.	01:11
milhouse	s/a/as/	01:12
infobot	milhouse meant: as jakub alluded to, a simple list of bugs based on target milestones shouldn't be too hard to produce - but would be a leap forward in terms of what we've been getting since the first releases.	01:12
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andre___	https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&target_milestone=4.1%2B&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED should list the public bugs fixed in today's update	01:13
andre___	uhm. no, have to correct myself	01:14
andre___	some of them have been fixed after week 30 when the update was pacakged	01:14
milhouse	andre! get it together!!	01:14
milhouse	woops	01:14
andre___	heh	01:14
milhouse	ah well... but at least you're in the loop, maybe going forward we can work towards producing a list with each release?	01:15
milhouse	can you narrow your query by date as well?	01:15
milhouse	pre week 30 etc?	01:15
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andre___	you can	01:15
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andre___	https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=Maemo+Software&target_milestone=4.1%2B&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=CLOSED&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=2008-07-31&chfield=resolution	01:18
andre___	but that's also not perfect, garrr	01:18
milhouse	I'm going to have to leave you to it - getting late here and I haven't had my dinner... :)	01:19
andre___	heh. i'm also going to leave for today...	01:19
milhouse	would it be possible to publish the bugs (quim?) once you have a definitive list? at some point, whenever you're ready...	01:19
andre___	quim is on vacation for the rest of the month, but it may be a good topic for tomorrow evening's sprint meeting - wanna join?	01:20
milhouse	i think that would help raise visibility of bugzilla too, and maybe spur people on to use it more	01:20
milhouse	i'll try - what's the format - irc?	01:20
milhouse	time?	01:20
andre___	https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint4	01:20
andre___	1900 UTC	01:20
milhouse	oh god, what's that in UK time?	01:21
milhouse	:)	01:21
milhouse	are we utc or gmt right now i have no idea!	01:21
milhouse	it's 23:21 here now	01:21
milhouse	s/gmt/bst/	01:21
andre___	UTC is 22:21 for you	01:21
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andre___	so it's tomorrow at 20:00 in the UK :-P	01:22
milhouse	ok, so 20:00 BST - cool	01:22
andre___	well, probably it's just boring. but getting more community involved is always good...	01:22
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milhouse	if i can make it home in time i'll drop by	01:23
milhouse	should be there if all goes to plan	01:23
milhouse	right, dinner time - night all!	01:23
andre___	enjoy your meal, gnight	01:23
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t_s_o	typical that my isp should have trouble right now	01:27
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GeneralAntilles	~changelog	01:55
infobot	[changelog] dpkg-deb --fsys-tarfile whatever.deb \| tar xOf - '*changelog.Debian.gz' \| gzip -d \| less	01:55
GeneralAntilles	~change-log	01:55
GeneralAntilles	~diabl-changelog	01:55
GeneralAntilles	~diablo-changelog	01:56
infobot	it has been said that diablo-changelog is Announcement: http://tinyurl.com/6k7q7q Version chart: http://tinyurl.com/5duv6t Bugzilla: http://tinyurl.com/68bffr Wikipedia: http://tinyurl.com/4wafha	01:56
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GeneralAntilles	Ehehe, Karel finally lost it.	02:11
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t_s_o	funny, after the reflash the maemo extra repo was disabled	02:15
t_s_o	"finally"? i figure that person was long gone...	02:15
GeneralAntilles	Reflash or SSU upgrade?	02:15
GeneralAntilles	Ehehe	02:15
GeneralAntilles	OK, he's finally really lost it and started flailing around at innocent bystanders like a madman. ;)	02:16
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t_s_o	reflash after a borked ssu upgrade...	02:18
dougt	is there any reason to not upgrade to diablo?	02:19
GeneralAntilles	dougt, well, there are lots of reasons for lots of things. ;)	02:20
GeneralAntilles	But my short answer is, no.	02:20
dougt	okay.	02:21
GeneralAntilles	Especially not with 30-2 being out and MicroB getting such a boost.	02:21
dougt	what do you mean, MicroB getting such a boost.	02:21
GeneralAntilles	It's a lot more responsive opening, closing and switching windows	02:21
dougt	ah	02:21
GeneralAntilles	and browsing is just a touch faster overall.	02:21
* timelyx chuckles		02:22
timelyx	andre___: i'm going to pull xrefs for the new diablo eventually, it'll take me a bit	02:22
timelyx	until then, i'm not going to verify code bugs	02:23
timelyx	dougt: in general, unless you've installed lots of third party software which you don't think has been updated yet, you should update	02:24
timelyx	it's the same as w/ the iPod or iPhone	02:24
timelyx	or Firefox	02:25
dougt	timelyx: :-)	02:25
timelyx	as long as any 'interesting' or 'critical' addons are still supported in the newer version, upgrade!	02:25
dougt	just got that cable i was missing at the summit	02:25
timelyx	:)	02:25
dougt	they are hard to find here.	02:25
dougt	had to order it from amazon.	02:25
timelyx	btw, i really wanted to spend more time talking, you never demo'd that device: (	02:25
dougt	yeah, i know.	02:26
dougt	it went way to quick.	02:26
* timelyx nods		02:26
dougt	did you take the bus on friday?	02:26
timelyx	11pm on thursday	02:26
timelyx	but i left the dinner w/ dave who needed to catch the 10pm	02:27
dougt	10am?	02:27
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timelyx	pm	02:27
dougt	i took the 3am without sleeping prior.	02:27
dougt	it was not a fun trip back home.	02:27
timelyx	i'm pretty sure we slept on the bus	02:27
dougt	don't remember?	02:28
timelyx	however i also slept when i arrived in LA	02:28
timelyx	well, i think laura remembers being amused by me sprawled out across 3+chairs (+aisle)	02:28
dougt	nice.	02:28
dougt	no pictures.	02:29
timelyx	i know she slept, and i suspect i wasn't awake when she noticed me like that	02:29
timelyx	hey, at least i found my camera	02:29
timelyx	i had put it in one of my bags :o	02:29
dougt	grats.	02:29
timelyx	sadly, i left my suit jackets in the hotel room	02:29
dougt	btw, i made it through security and onto a plane w/ a full tube of toothpaste.	02:29
dougt	(i didn't know i packed that big of a tube)	02:30
timelyx	heh	02:30
* dougt wonders if I am now on a watch list.		02:30
timelyx	i don't think i'll mention anything i didn't do right	02:30
dougt	probably a safe idea.	02:30
dougt	say...	02:30
dougt	why do you build microb stuff with no-unit-at-a-time	02:31
timelyx	most of those optimizations were picked by people who had no clue	02:31
timelyx	and in testing using gecko default options was better	02:31
timelyx	the other reason historically has been that the compiler was really flaky	02:31
crashanddie	dougt, you're on the ATF watch list, that's for sure !	02:34
GeneralAntilles	timelyx, you happen to know the 30-2 tablet browser release version off the top of your head?	02:34
GeneralAntilles	The about: page still hasn't been updated for 30-2. . . .	02:34
timelyx	nope, that's what debian is for	02:35
timelyx	dpkg / apt-cache or something	02:35
t_s_o	ugh, where oh where did x hide its keyboard layouts again. i keep forgetting :(	02:35
timelyx	as i told andre___, i haven't pulled xref yet	02:35
dougt	crashanddie: oh, that atf thing is for something else.... i helped with crypto stuff when it was pretty illegal to ship anything without going through alot of pain.	02:35
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: as usual, we're finding out about releases after you guys do :)	02:35
GeneralAntilles	Nice. . . .	02:36
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles, osso-browser 3:2.1.5-1	02:36
timelyx	crashanddie: that's a meta package	02:36
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, bzzt	02:36
timelyx	not very useful	02:36
timelyx	he probably wants microb-engine	02:36
timelyx	or tablet-browser-*	02:36
crashanddie	microb-engine 1.0.4-60.14	02:37
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timelyx	GeneralAntilles: if you mean have we moved gecko tags, i can't remember	02:37
GeneralAntilles	"1.0.4" on wikipedia	02:37
timelyx	the plan says we move to 3.0.1 at some point	02:37
GeneralAntilles	I guess I should update the release date, at least. . . .	02:37
timelyx	anyway, it's late	02:37
timelyx	late... it's really late	02:38
crashanddie	dougt, I thought it was for the magic 9 mil casing that suddenly started appearing in your neighbourhood	02:38
crashanddie	dougt, thought, thanks, I'll tag your file with "update needed"	02:38
dougt	:-)	02:38
dougt	no problem.	02:38
crashanddie	s/t,/,/	02:38
infobot	crashanddie meant: doug, thought, thanks, I'll tag your file with "update needed"	02:38
dougt	and it is a 40 cal. i use.	02:38
crashanddie	djeezus	02:38
dougt	:-)	02:38
crashanddie	~lart infobot	02:39
* infobot turns crashanddie into a lifesized tux doll		02:39
crashanddie	AAAAAARGGGGGH	02:39
GeneralAntilles	bot-pwned	02:39
* crashanddie slams liqbase down infobot's throat		02:39
dougt	searching on http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ is busted.	02:40
timelyx	there are 2 other search engines	02:40
timelyx	the older one was gronmeyer (?)	02:40
GeneralAntilles	gronmayer.com/it	02:40
GeneralAntilles	Does not include Diablo repositories.	02:41
GeneralAntilles	ferenc is working on a packages.maemo.org that may be live sometime before the summit. :P	02:41
timelyx	ouch	02:41
timelyx	does the other repo tracker handle diablo?	02:41
GeneralAntilles	The Diablo repos could be added to gronmayer	02:42
GeneralAntilles	but I'm disinclined to do it myself, as it only encourages more usage of system-breaking 3rd-party repositories.	02:42
GeneralAntilles	site:http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo will work for you.	02:42
GeneralAntilles	timelyx, Pack Rat was down last time I checked.	02:43
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GeneralAntilles	http://ageofikon.info/packrat/	02:43
GeneralAntilles	It's back up, I guess.	02:44
GeneralAntilles	Or maybe not	02:44
* GeneralAntilles stabs rm_you.		02:44
GeneralAntilles	~pack-rat is http://ageofikon.info/packrat/	02:44
infobot	okay, GeneralAntilles	02:44
* rm_you is stabbed		02:44
* rm_you fixes		02:44
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rm_you	ima turn off cron	02:46
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, if only Maemo Software had that sort of response time. :p	02:46
rm_you	it won't update automatically, but... that was breaking it instantly	02:46
rm_you	so	02:46
rm_you	whatever	02:46
rm_you	i'll update it manually every week or so	02:46
rm_you	until i figure out why it breaks	02:46
rm_you	I are packing	02:47
rm_you	erk MySQL is broken i think	02:47
rm_you	that seems to be the issue	02:47
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rm_you	it breaks... sometimes?	02:48
rm_you	so weird	02:48
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t_s_o	and things are back to normal...	02:55
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t_s_o	even my gpe calendar stuff have survived, nice :D	02:56
t_s_o	even tho it seems i have a older version, before the crash bug fix...	02:57
t_s_o	extra devel next i guess...	02:57
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t_s_o	hmm, did the media player get a slight interface update?	03:13
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t_s_o	hmm, i do hope that nokia makes a in hardware way for future tablets to boot of a SD card or similar	03:29
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GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, recovery mode?	03:36
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that would be rather cool	03:36
GeneralAntilles	Actually, there _IS_ a recovery mode that's been implemented as part of SSU.	03:36
t_s_o	yep, maybe with some way to do a serial terminal pr usb or something ;)	03:36
GeneralAntilles	I have no idea how it's activated, nor how it works, though.	03:36
t_s_o	figures	03:36
GeneralAntilles	I've only heard it mentioned twice.	03:37
GeneralAntilles	So it may not be entirely up-to-speed, though.	03:37
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t_s_o	ok	03:38
t_s_o	still, with how much the backups store of settings and other data, doing a reflash is not that much of a issue any more	03:39
t_s_o	annoying, but not much of a checklist	03:39
t_s_o	i see that the app manager will even tell you its a good idea to do a backup and supply a button for it so	03:40
t_s_o	my major issue was that is had the lib issue and tried to use -unlocked via apt-get. that resulted in some error or other and dead wifi...	03:41
ds3	GeneralAntilles: you mean the ability of the processor to boot of the SD card in place of the NAND?	03:41
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t_s_o	hmm, super soaker with ice cubes. pass the vodka ;)	03:53
t_s_o	meh, off to bed	03:55
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GAN800	ds3, well, anything really.	04:04
GAN800	Something that'd be easy for newbies to use and worked with the shipped software set preferably.	04:05
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ds3	GAN800: the feature I am thinking of is far not newbie friendly	04:12
ds3	s/far//	04:13
infobot	ds3 meant: GAN800: the feature I am thinking of is not newbie friendly	04:13
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ryoohki	has nokia said when the n810 wimax version is coming out?	04:26
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GAN800	ryookhi, 'summer 2008'	04:27
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GAN800	It's highly dependent on Sprint getting their shit together, though.	04:27
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mikkov_	and that is dependent on when ex Nokia Networks get's their shit together?	04:32
mikkov_	gets	04:32
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Capn_Fish	My system just updated, as did the initfs. Since I'm running Debian off of my SD card, that's no good, so I went to reflash it, but fanoush's initfs flasher says "unknown initfs version 2008-29" How can I flash my initfs back so I can use Debian?	04:46
trev0r	doesn't debian run really slow	04:47
Capn_Fish	No	04:47
Capn_Fish	It runs quite nicely	04:47
Capn_Fish	It's FAR superior to Maemo	04:47
trev0r	really?	04:48
trev0r	weird	04:49
Capn_Fish	What makes you think it's slow?	04:49
trev0r	on what, n810?	04:50
Capn_Fish	Ya	04:50
trev0r	lack of ram and a slow cpu i would think	04:51
aspect	what makes it superior to Maemo?	04:52
Capn_Fish	You can pick your WM, you can run standard apps on it, there's more software available for it, it gets regular updates, etc.	04:53
Capn_Fish	Take your pick	04:53
aspect	they're all good reasons :)	04:53
trev0r	what browser do you use in it	04:53
Capn_Fish	Oh, and readily available onboard development tools	04:53
Capn_Fish	Epiphany-gecko	04:53
Capn_Fish	With Flash support :)	04:54
aspect	lack of hildon might be a bit annoying, but I'm sure that can be worked around with a bit of effort	04:54
Capn_Fish	Debian HAS Hildon packages, not that I'd want them	04:54
aspect	only onboard development tool I want is tcl/tk ... bugger compiling on a pocket device :)	04:54
Capn_Fish	Nah. It's not too bad	04:54
trev0r	how's the speed ?	04:54
Capn_Fish	Better than on a Zaurus	04:55
trev0r	of ghe browser	04:55
Capn_Fish	I'd say on par, maybe a little slower, than the default in Maemo	04:55
trev0r	groovy	04:59
Capn_Fish	It is quite nice	05:00
Capn_Fish	http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet	05:01
Capn_Fish	Have fun	05:01
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Capn_Fish	Oh, I just needed to download the latest initfs_flasher from fanoush's site :P	05:10
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smackpotato1	4.2008.23-14 am i missing a repository	05:46
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chmac	Can anyone recommend a password manager for maemo? I want to keep my encrypted password list in sync between my laptop and tablet	06:38
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Italodance	.	07:37
terbo	^	07:38
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bef0rd	v	07:44
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burnte	am I the only guy that the new update borked/	07:54
burnte	?	07:54
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bef0rd	<t_s_o> reflash after a borked ssu upgrade...	08:00
burnte	oh, I already did	08:00
burnte	hours ago	08:00
burnte	I was just hoping I wasn't alone	08:00
burnte	misery loves company.	08:00
burnte	I'm reloading apps and such now.	08:00
bef0rd	heh, it seem to have failed for t_s_o too	08:00
bef0rd	it worked ok for me though	08:01
doc\|home	new flash image?	08:01
burnte	Funny, my SD card came in today, and I was thinking, "Boy, now I an work on backing up the entire partition...	08:01
burnte	doc\|home: No, slipstreamed upgrade	08:01
doc\|home	oh well bugger	08:01
burnte	downlaodable, no reflashing needed	08:01
burnte	well	08:01
burnte	let me rephrase that	08:01
doc\|home	not such a good thing then :)	08:01
burnte	none SHOULD be needed.	08:01
doc\|home	heh	08:01
burnte	in my case, and the case of a few others, yes.	08:01
bef0rd	burnte, did you have a bootmenu installed?	08:04
burnte	nope	08:04
burnte	RD mode, root access, btu no boot menu	08:04
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burnte	can anyone else get to maemo.org?	08:10
* bef0rd tries		08:10
bef0rd	Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at maemo.org	08:10
burnte	I can't from PA, another friend can't from Florida, so... yeah	08:11
burnte	I thought so	08:11
burnte	this is obviously a concerted effort to keep me from having a working tbalet.	08:11
burnte	forst they break my tablet with their "update" then they keep me from my apps.	08:11
burnte	EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET ME!	08:11
acydlord	lol	08:11
acydlord	tried flushing your dns cache?	08:12
burnte	yes, although I doubt everyone was using my same DNS server. :)	08:12
burnte	there's a router or server down	08:13
burnte	hops fail after 62.176.60.162	08:13
bef0rd	maybe they applied the update and it broke the n800 webserver	08:14
bef0rd	:P	08:14
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burnte	that's it!	08:14
burnte	they tested the update on a production server, like any sensible admin would.	08:14
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bef0rd	lol	08:16
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chmac	Was there a recent update that caused problems?	08:18
burnte	indeed.	08:18
chmac	I think I've got some updates pending...	08:18
chmac	burnte: What was the update?	08:18
bef0rd	it didnt cause any problem for me :P	08:18
burnte	ChanServ: The OS2008 update	08:19
chmac	Have you guys managed to get a tool that safely stores passwords on both desktop / tablet?	08:19
burnte	bef0rd: That's becaus eyou're obviously in on everything.	08:19
burnte	chmac: Post-It notes are secure enough for me!	08:20
chmac	burnte: You mean the flash update to OS2008? Or is it something that downloaded through application manager?	08:20
chmac	burnte: Not very portable though! :)	08:20
burnte	chmac: The slipstreamed update.	08:20
chmac	burnte: Not sure what that is. Something I have to specifically download? Or will it try to auto-install?	08:21
burnte	AFAIK nothing automatically downloads	08:21
burnte	most people have been fine	08:21
bef0rd	try to click 'check updates'	08:21
burnte	but a few unlucky soulds got borked	08:22
bef0rd	then you can choose if you want to download it or not	08:22
chmac	I install all the repos from that list, so it takes forever to get updates, etc	08:22
chmac	Looks like gringotts might be the best choice...	08:24
chmac	Has a desktop and a tablet client... :)	08:25
bef0rd	cool, didn't know the built in image viewer also included some basic editing stuff :)	08:28
RST38h	moo all	08:31
burnte	moo.	08:35
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chmac	Anyone else using Gringotts?	08:47
chmac	I've just installed, but it's missing a lib...	08:47
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moontiger	did they fix the bluetooth PAN issue with this update at all?	08:54
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Mace_	hi	09:22
Mace_	anybody here use att for their connection?	09:23
Mace_	using bt?	09:23
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zap	try to divide the number of the users on this channel by the number of internet users worldwide, and then multiply it by the number of att customers	09:27
zap	you'll get the approximative probability of this happening	09:28
zap	ah yes, and multiply by the number of users using BT divided by the overall number of internet users	09:28
zap	My estimated guess is something like, 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%	09:28
GAN800	Mace_, I am.	09:33
zap	oh! this is a wonder!	09:33
zap	(wonder == very little chance event happening)	09:33
GAN800	moontiger, no, the dummy connection fixed were not pushed.	09:33
* GAN800 eyeroll @ zap		09:33
zap	;)	09:34
GAN800	maemo.org working for anybody else?	09:34
zap	nope	09:34
zap	Connection to 62.61.85.38 Failed	09:34
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bef0rd	internet is broken :X	09:38
zap	it is 0wned	09:39
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* qwerty12 is patiently waiting for kernel-source-diablo to be updated		09:42
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Sargun	Is http://www.maemo.org/ unavailable?	09:43
Sargun	ughj	09:43
Sargun	I need the scratchbox install script	09:43
Sargun	stupid	09:43
bef0rd	I believe its available at tablets-dev.nokia.com (dunno if that site is down too)	09:43
bef0rd	Service Unavailable	09:44
bef0rd	pwnt	09:44
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Sargun	uh	09:46
Sargun	someone call nokia	09:46
Sargun	:-P	09:46
GeneralAntilles	_marcell_, fix maemo.org. :(	09:48
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Sargun	thanks	10:09
Sargun	moontiger,	10:09
moontiger	;)	10:09
Sargun	but I can't DCC :-(	10:09
moontiger	eesh ... do u have email?	10:09
Sargun	I'll get it in the mornin	10:09
Sargun	g	10:09
moontiger	oh ok	10:09
Sargun	thanks though	10:09
Sargun	its almost time to get some Zs.	10:10
moontiger	me too :)	10:10
moontiger	where u at?	10:10
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: It seems the ISP doesn't know how to read calendars.	10:10
GeneralAntilles	Ahaha	10:10
GeneralAntilles	Awesome.	10:11
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: So the servers are now in a truck :(	10:11
moontiger	??!!	10:11
doc\|home	you stole the servers?!	10:11
* doc\|home calls the cops		10:11
X-Fade	Moving to another datacenter.	10:11
moontiger	nooooo way!	10:12
doc\|home	oh yeah, says he with the "SWAG" bag	10:12
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade's getting a new server farm for his basement.	10:12
doc\|home	hah	10:12
* qwerty12 goes and hijacks a truck in Finland. dsme source code for all!		10:12
GeneralAntilles	Wrong server, qwerty12. ;)	10:13
X-Fade	qwerty12: heh, I'm pretty sure it is not in there..	10:13
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles: Hmm, so garage isn't hosted on that server?	10:14
qwerty12	X-Fade: hehe	10:14
qwerty12	It's a shame dsme-commits and dsme-devel are dead :(	10:15
qwerty12	I learnt a lot by signing up though...	10:15
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*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "http://maemo.org is currently down for scheduled maintenance (one day early) \| Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 \| Create the new maemo.org logo: https://wiki.maemo.org/maemo.org_logo_contest \| logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ \| http://mxr.maemo.org"		10:16
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, I'm no longer hungry. Back to bed with me. You guys have fun with the hordes of confused newbies. ;)	10:16
X-Fade	lol.	10:17
* qwerty12 gets the guns out. time to go on a newbie hunt.		10:17
RST38h	gnight	10:17
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moontiger	nn all :)	10:19
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samppa	estimated downtime left ?	10:49
XTL	7hrs?	10:49
XTL	Heh, there's an i-am-free app	10:49
samppa	:D	10:50
samppa	7hours ??	10:50
X-Fade	samppa: That is worst case..	10:50
X-Fade	samppa: But it will probably be back sooner.	10:50
XTL	So make it 9	10:50
samppa	ok :)	10:50
aquatix	XTL: yeah, too bad it needs python :)	10:50
X-Fade	Angry calls can go to the ISP :)	10:51
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samppa	:)	10:51
aquatix	am i reading right that the servers of maemo.org are being moved?	10:52
qwerty12	X-Fade: Do they speak English? (My knowledge of English swearing is greater than my knowledge of Finnish or Dutch ones :))	10:52
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X-Fade	qwerty12: Oh, I'm sure you will get the message across ;)	10:52
XTL	Finnish does have a more tanglible edge to it, done properly	10:53
X-Fade	But apart from them being a day early, we would have the same situation tomorrow..	10:53
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samppa	so is this downtime becouse of isp ?	10:55
X-Fade	Harware is being moved to another datacenter.	10:56
liri	aquatix: I got liferea installed on the NIT and guess what	10:56
qwerty12	Go on X-Fade, you know you want to don your Superman outfit and get the Servers back of the trucks	10:56
qwerty12	*servers	10:56
liri	aquatix: it still refused to get some of those RSS, said they were invalid	10:56
liri	aquatix: I found one RSS feed that it accepted but it didn't display hebrew :)	10:56
liri	so no luck for me there	10:56
aquatix	liri: hm :(	10:56
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legind	interesting	10:57
samppa	so is this going to be the end for maemo.org lagging ?	10:57
legind	actually the nameservers are down too	10:57
aquatix	liri: i guess you would have to mail the site owners with some feedvalidator.org results	10:57
legind	try to ping ns.nokia.com	10:57
legind	try to ping ns2.nokia.com	10:57
legind	nothin	10:57
liri	aquatix: yeah and I'll doubt they would actually take that into consideration :)	10:57
aquatix	nokia.com works though	10:57
legind	yeah	10:58
liri	aquatix: the weird thing is that the same website works fine on liferea on Ubuntu	10:58
aquatix	liri: well, it's their feeds, and they are invalid	10:58
liri	aquatix: so as it happens the versions DO differ!	10:58
aquatix	oh	10:58
X-Fade	legind: That has nothing to do with this ;)	10:58
aquatix	weird	10:58
liri	yep	10:58
legind	X-Fade, I'm sure its related	10:58
X-Fade	legind: Well, then I won't argue with you.	10:59
trickie\|work	:)	10:59
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tbf	wtf? maemo.org down?	11:01
trickie\|work	see topic	11:01
tbf	trickie\|work: uh.	11:01
qwerty12	* Topic for #maemo is: http://maemo.org is currently down for scheduled maintenance (one day early)	11:02
qwerty12	Says it all to me	11:02
* tbf doesn't understand the meaning of "one day early"		11:02
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legind	ah I wasn't aware it was scheduled	11:03
qwerty12	This email was sent: "Our ISP is transferring the *.maemo.org servers to a new hosting center.	11:03
qwerty12	Because of this, all servers will be down on the 13th of August, between	11:03
qwerty12	07:45 and 17:00 (EEST)."	11:03
qwerty12	As you can see, it's not the 13th of August and the ISP decided to jump the gun :(	11:03
aquatix	isp's are weird that way	11:04
tbf	not quite professionel to shutdown the old servers before the move	11:04
XTL	Yep. They can have your servers shut down and moved halfway to a new rack without you knowing anything about it	11:04
XTL	(Not that that ever happened to me, no..)	11:04
XTL	And when you bring in new ones, you find someone's UE sitting in your dedicated cabinet.	11:05
tbf	if my hoster would do that to me, it'd terminate the contract immediatly	11:05
XTL	But I don't do that anymore. Ahh..	11:05
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Khertan	Hi !	11:05
Khertan	does someone have access to maemo.org ?	11:06
tbf	Khertan: see topic	11:06
qwerty12	* Topic for #maemo is: http://maemo.org is currently down for scheduled maintenance (one day early)	11:06
Khertan	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22733&page=16	11:06
tbf	Khertan: obviously Nokia hired the cheapest of all cheap web hosters for running maemo.org	11:06
Khertan	:)	11:06
Khertan	lol haven't see topic :)	11:06
Khertan	thx	11:06
Khertan	tbf > the hoster isn't bad ... just the driver of the 33.6k modem is unstable	11:07
qwerty12	lol	11:07
tbf	hehe	11:07
Khertan	surely a win modem used under linux	11:07
Mek	damn... lovely planning... shutting down *.maemo.org almost at the same time as 100 free devices will be given to hackers at Akademy...	11:07
Khertan	there is more bad ... when many user get notifications of an diablo update ...	11:08
Khertan	;)	11:08
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X-Fade	Khertan: That is not related.	11:08
qwerty12	When there is a new diablo SSU update, do the FIASCO images get updated?	11:08
Khertan	someone know something about lightning session ?	11:08
Khertan	X-Fade > i know	11:09
Khertan	someone know something about lightning session organization ?	11:09
Khertan	:)	11:09
Khertan	a word was missing :)	11:09
Khertan	X-Fade > just kidding ...	11:09
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Khertan	using windows at work is really annoying !	11:15
bef0rd	s/work/*/	11:16
bef0rd	:P	11:16
Khertan	yep :)	11:16
Khertan	thx	11:16
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Khertan	each right click on a folder kill the explorer.exe	11:18
Khertan	copy a file ... lag of 30s	11:18
Khertan	i think something is wrong in the db registry	11:18
melmoth	X-Fade: you here ?	11:18
Khertan	ccleaner ... 552 dll missing	11:19
Khertan	lol	11:19
qwerty12	Khertan: probably a dodgy shell extension loaded	11:19
qwerty12	iirc http://nirsoft.net has a tool that can disable them	11:19
mbuf	one day downtime is from which timezone?	11:19
Khertan	yep ... this was that ... a dodgy shell extension where dll is missing	11:19
Khertan	ccleaner clean the registry and now work really better	11:20
X-Fade	melmoth: yep	11:20
X-Fade	mbuf: UTC-24? :)	11:20
Khertan	i m surprised as ... i ve only install a few things on this developpment workstation	11:20
Khertan	glade / 4D / 7z	11:21
Khertan	firefox, mirc, thunderbird	11:21
Khertan	and nothing else	11:21
Khertan	rha .... it s come back again ...	11:22
egypt	anyone know if the cx3110x is capable of injection?	11:24
mbuf	X-Fade, :)	11:25
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melmoth	X-Fade: remember the bugzilla 3416 ? (autoubild binary content change according to final architecture.)	11:26
melmoth	i was wondering if something was supposed to happen on it (ie, is somebody assigned to look at it) ?	11:26
melmoth	or if i should consider building a repo.	11:26
Khertan	melmoth > BAD IDEA !	11:26
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melmoth	Note that, because i already pushed successfully one library (clucene-core) in diablo extras, using the chinook binary ends up in a broken install	11:27
X-Fade	melmoth: Ed is back from holiday. I will remind him about it again..	11:27
melmoth	thanks.	11:28
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sven-tek	Hi	11:38
sven-tek	is there a way to backup my n800 with image-file?	11:39
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sven-tek	creating a image, which i can flash back to the device would be cool	11:42
aquatix	you can create a backup with the backup tool	11:43
aquatix	it will restore almost anything after a flash	11:43
aquatix	even installed programs	11:43
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aquatix	gives you a list with checkboxes which applications you want to install again	11:44
aquatix	worked well here	11:44
XTL	A cleanly treated system should come up well with those, yes.	11:44
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XTL	And it won't back up everything (including breakage)	11:44
qwerty12	mtd-tools will backup everything	11:44
XTL	System gets rebuilt on flash+update and user backup is dropped over that afaik	11:45
XTL	Hm.. pdumpfs might be handy. Although there's not that much changing on the tablet in normal use	11:46
aquatix	XTL: yeah, that's how that restore works indeed	11:46
aquatix	worked well here	11:47
aquatix	restored all my settings, contacts etc	11:47
XTL	Worked well for me, too. I've done that once so far.	11:47
* aquatix too, yesterday :)		11:48
aquatix	thank the Light for that OS2008 update asking to do a backup before proceeding	11:49
XTL	:)	11:50
*** X-Fade changes topic to "Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 \| Create the new maemo.org logo: https://wiki.maemo.org/maemo.org_logo_contest \| logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ \| http://mxr.maemo.org"		11:54
*** X-Fade changes topic to "Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 \| ogs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ \| http://mxr.maemo.org"		11:54
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X-Fade	Hmm ok, not good.	11:55
*** X-Fade changes topic to "Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 \| logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ \| http://mxr.maemo.org"		11:55
XTL	Ah	11:55
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Khertan	still many some 500 error	11:59
Khertan	+s	11:59
Khertan	"crap.."	11:59
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Khertan	lol nice error :)	11:59
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Khertan	http://wiki.maemo.org/ -> crap ...	12:00
XTL	Should put a [Flame ISP] button on every errorhandler page	12:00
Khertan	hihi	12:00
Khertan	yep !	12:00
XTL	:-D	12:00
Khertan	who is the isp ?	12:00
qwerty12	ARRGH, I'm uploading an avi to the XBOX and the mess of network cables makes me want to strangle someone with them	12:00
Khertan	qwerty12 > ? cable ?	12:01
Khertan	this thing still exist ?	12:01
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XTL	laaag	12:01
qwerty12	Khertan, ethernet cables, scart etc	12:01
XTL	I had to use an ethernet cable just this morning.	12:01
qwerty12	I'm too cheap to get an cross over cable when I have a spare router :)	12:01
XTL	Laptop windos decided there's no network reception. In the end it just needed a reboot.	12:02
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aquatix	XTL: yeah, that's some backwards feature of windows	12:04
aquatix	i've even encountered situations where i needed to restart windows when i wanted to switch from wifi the ethernet or the other way around	12:04
oilinki3	cables are great when using microwave oven	12:04
aquatix	oilinki3: :)	12:04
aquatix	oilinki3: don't put your tablet inside such a machine ;)	12:04
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XTL	Yeah. You can use an xbox for that.	12:05
XTL	Remember to video it.	12:05
oilinki3	aqua: no need. One time I even rebooted my wlan-router.. just to later figure out that the connection problem was caused by the microwave oven	12:05
aquatix	;)	12:05
aquatix	you might want to try another channel	12:06
aquatix	slightly different frequencies	12:06
XTL	"defrost"	12:06
aquatix	maybe another channel works better when heating your food	12:06
XTL	I wonder how broad-spectrum the microwave interference is	12:07
XTL	You haven't tried whether it hurts BT?	12:07
aquatix	oilinki3: or crank up your router's radio power :)	12:08
oilinki3	I'm ok with that. we are not using the micro so often. just need to be sure that there is no voip call on progress when heating the food	12:08
Khertan	hum ... if you oven disturb your wifi don't stay too near when you use it	12:09
Khertan	it should not happen	12:09
Khertan	s/you/your	12:09
aquatix	true	12:09
aquatix	microwave oven should be shielded	12:10
oilinki3	I suppose there is a bit of leak anyway. and yes. I rather be a bit away of it.	12:10
XTL	The shielding won't stop all of the interference and things like positioning matter	12:10
aquatix	oilinki3: if bits of your body starts getting cooked, you know you're in trouble ;)	12:10
XTL	If it breaks an otherwise clean conn from a distance, I'd worry	12:10
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oilinki3	basically it does not cut the lines, but there is a loads of erros and for example loading web pages does not work	12:10
aquatix	even changing your position 10cm could have effect	12:11
Khertan	XTL > the shield should stop frequency used by wifi on channel 1,2,3,4,5,6,7	12:11
aquatix	iirc, the wavelength of wifi is about 20cm?	12:11
Khertan	if it don't ... change it ... the shield have been damaged	12:11
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oilinki3	it's a new oven so I tought that it should not be any serious issue.	12:14
Khertan	someone know spreadshirt.com ?	12:14
XTL	Khertan: define "know"	12:15
Khertan	know -> mean ... are they serious ? how is delivery, fast, slow ... ?	12:16
XTL	I think they're serious. Haven't done any business with them myself.	12:16
Khertan	i'm trying to make a nice tshirt for the summit ;)	12:16
XTL	I think they have the idea that you can sell your own designs. Which is pretty neat if you have some low volume project (like a piece of sw)	12:17
XTL	So you can have them offer shirts with fan logos to random people	12:18
Khertan	:)	12:21
Khertan	maybe they will be fan for my maemo tshirt :)	12:21
Khertan	based on http://khertan.net/poubelle/logo1.png	12:22
XTL	If the copyrights are not a problem, you could set up shop with all the logos :9	12:24
Khertan	lol i ve made this logo ... i don't thing someone would wear this thing :)	12:26
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XTL	Ah, but try and mention it on irc and you might find yourself in a sea of your creations :)	12:30
XTL	(I remembered the logo :)	12:31
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rm_you	I found someone who is screenprinting random Maemo logo shirts for me for like $12 each	12:34
rm_you	which isnt spectacular, but not horrible	12:34
rm_you	I may blow up the Adv Backlight logo and put that on a shirt too :P	12:34
Khertan	... hum ...	12:36
Khertan	12$	12:36
Khertan	i ven't found something under 22Euros	12:36
rm_you	O_o	12:36
rm_you	maybe i should make tons, and sell them :P	12:37
Khertan	lol	12:37
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Khertan	http://khertan.net/poubelle/tshirt1.png	12:38
Khertan	ouch ... +6 euro for delivery !!!	12:39
Khertan	30 Euros ... for a stupid tshirt.... it s a bit expensive	12:39
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kpel	oh yes	12:39
aspect	does diablo automatically shut itself down under any circumstances other than flat battery?	12:40
kpel	so there is a maemo logo at last. nice play with the infinity symbol. but why all this pale greyness?	12:40
aspect	Khertan: maybe try threadless .. I think you need a bunch of people to vote before it's in catalogue but we might be able to manage that :-)	12:40
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bef0rd	http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/8870/bobesponjaillamk8.jpg	12:43
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kpel	omg, they found bob!	12:44
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LoCusF	any cool stuff on the new feature upgrade for OS2008?	12:48
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Khertan	yep there is a new too kweel version number !!!	12:50
Khertan	:	12:50
Khertan	:)	12:50
Khertan	modest/microb mainly	12:50
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Khertan	lol ... i found a printed tshirt for 15Euros ... with 15 Euros for delivery ... pffff	13:06
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Khertan	yeah ... comboutique.fr ... 18Euros ... for one logo and one line of text in the back	13:20
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Italodance	2008-08-12 maemo.org Sprint4 IRC planning meeting2008-07-28T07:43:22Z dab2a01e5c7811ddaefc737a25da451d451d	13:24
Khertan	... hum ...	13:25
Khertan	it s today	13:25
Khertan	maybe i could join	13:25
Khertan	maemo wiki : Connection to 127.0.0.1 Failed	13:26
Khertan	Italodance > could you remember me the channel and time ?	13:26
Italodance	hi yeah	13:26
Italodance	Khertan umm	13:27
Italodance	!	13:27
Khertan	?!?	13:27
Khertan	lol found	13:27
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Khertan	just a whois on x-fade is usefull ;)	13:28
Italodance	Khertan no	13:28
Italodance	#maemo-meeting	13:29
lardman	is this going on atm?	13:29
X-Fade	19:00 utc.	13:30
lardman	X-Fade: cool	13:30
lardman	Anyone here who knows about hw interrupts?	13:30
Khertan	hum ... i ll join :) just to see what is a maemo-meeting :)	13:30
X-Fade	I'll be playing Quim tonight ;)	13:30
lardman	X-Fade: right, I'll prepare a long list of questions to paste at you ;)	13:31
X-Fade	Only I don't have the answers, like he does.	13:31
qwerty12	lol	13:31
Italodance	today i refreshed my app manager and saw a new 3d game called ABUSE? anyone knows it? screenshot?	13:31
Khertan	Italodance .... rohh !:!!!!	13:31
Khertan	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abuse_(computer_game)	13:31
qwerty12	Italodance, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=157548	13:32
Italodance	thank u Khertan & qwerty12 :D	13:32
lardman	I was looking at the mp3.o dsp task and notice there are no DMA strings in there, anyone know if that is encapsulated by XDAIS?	13:32
wiza	did feature upgrade update kernel too? mostly interested 'cause I'm using a2dp's dsp/arm decoupling stuff	13:32
qwerty12	wiza, yeah	13:33
Italodance	ut's 15 mb wow should be good :(	13:33
Italodance	:)	13:33
lardman	wiza: it might have overwritten bluez-utils	13:34
Khertan	Unable to forward this request at this time. .... rah ... could you come with some guy from the isp that run maemo.org at the summit ? we can so made a real deathmatch ....	13:34
wiza	lardman: aah, that too, haven't tested a2dp after that upgrade, any updates coming to that or does the old version/kernel work?	13:35
lardman	wiza: not much point in using the kernel atm as videos don't want to play with it	13:35
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wiza	lardman: not using internet tablet for watching video	13:35
lardman	wiza: I'm looking at doing DMA/some other way of getting it to work with video output too	13:35
wiza	lardman: gps, email, web and music is 'nuff for me	13:36
lardman	wiza: in which case you still don't need the kernel, that just allowed you to push the ARM to full speed while using the DSP	13:36
wiza	ok	13:36
lardman	for you, it's pretty much done	13:36
lardman	for people who want to be able to use it to redirect audio while watching video with mplayer, I need to work out why the mplayer frame rate drops to ~1fps	13:37
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wiza	lardman: there was some clitches in the sound, might be that canola was using way too much cpu... but that wasn't really annoying, rode my bike like 300km and it happened maybe 30 times	13:37
lardman	wiza: ah yeah, qwerty12 mentioned some glitches too, I've not got round to look at that; I will do though	13:37
wiza	sweet	13:38
lardman	Were you playing mp3s?	13:38
wiza	yep	13:38
wiza	not that I'm needing that much now, weather is gettin' even more shittier than usual	13:38
lardman	It would be useful if you or qwerty12 could chop out the chunks which are causing glitches, or at least tell me the time in the song so I can do so	13:38
qwerty12	lardman, that song I sent you is glitched all the way through :)	13:39
lardman	otherwise I need to convert the entire tracks to pcm, send it though and do a diff	13:39
lardman	qwerty12: ok	13:39
qwerty12	if you wish, just cut some seconds from the start	13:39
lardman	qwerty12: isn't that the way it's supposed to sound? ;)	13:39
qwerty12	lardman, nope as the default bluez a2dp stuff plays it fine ;P	13:39
lardman	:p	13:40
timeless	um, when is maemo.org planning on working?	13:40
lardman	qwerty12: I'll take a look this evening, am feeling better (have had a stinking cold & couldn't be bothered to program()	13:40
qwerty12	lardman, great, thank you. I think I'm feeling the start of a cold here (runny nose) :D	13:41
qwerty12	Or it could be a result of eating these "chilli" crisps :/	13:41
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qwerty12	johnx, ping	13:46
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lardman	qwerty12: chilli is about the only thing I can taste atm	13:48
qwerty12	lardman, heh :/. have some chicken soup :P	13:49
lardman	So, are hw interrupts assignable, or do they correspond to a given bit of hardware?	13:49
lardman	qwerty12: mm, sounds nice; coffee to keep me awake though atm	13:49
qwerty12	lardman, hehe. I hate chicken soup. Come think of it, you won't like my judgement as I don't drink coffee or tea either :P	13:50
lardman	qwerty12: :)	13:50
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lardman	ah, don't worry about the hwi question, I read the code wrongly	13:52
pupnik	somehow burning cpu for a2dp grosses me out, when the function can be replaced by three wire	13:52
pupnik	ss	13:52
lardman	3 wires? how?	13:52
pupnik	cable, headphones	13:55
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lardman	pupnik: oh, I see, not so wireless though then ;)	13:55
pupnik	yes	13:56
pupnik	not to disparage your work or anything	13:56
lardman	no, that's ok :)	13:57
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mikkov_	i want this https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/2423 for MicroB	14:12
Anunakin	I think the better way is try to use firefox...	14:13
aquatix	that's interesting	14:14
mikkov_	point is that i don't want firefox ;)	14:14
aquatix	can't you just wget -r wikipedia? ;)	14:14
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mikkov_	sure after i get my petabyte sd card ;)	14:15
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aquatix	or the mysql db! :)	14:16
lardman	talking about DBs, I didn't realise that mapper (i.e. onion's fork) didn't render using OSM data, silly me	14:17
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Anunakin	mikkov_: But microb not have a interface (bars and status bars) like firefox... then you need remake this addon...	14:26
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XTL	I wonder how much space wiktionary bodies in dense format (wiki text?) would take	14:31
Shiggidy	a current snapshot of wikipedia in bzip'd SQL form is like 2.6gb	14:32
XTL	That's not too huge. Rest of wikimedia is out of that?	14:32
aquatix	that's likely only the text of english articles	14:34
aquatix	quite compact though	14:34
XTL	Locales out, too, yes.	14:34
terbo	its about 4gb bziped, and 200gb with images	14:36
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Shiggidy	bah images.	14:43
Shiggidy	but it is SLOOOWWW on an IT	14:43
Shiggidy	SQL + IT == not fun	14:43
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XTL	\forall x : SQL + x == not fun	14:44
Shiggidy	haha	14:44
XTL	Excepting the axe as usual, perhaps	14:44
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Binky	Hi hi hi	14:48
Binky	bef0rd, why you always have your befr0d clon? lol	14:49
lcuk	crashanddie, ping	14:49
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Binky	What is mounted on /dev/mtdblock4?	14:52
Binky	Well, is not mounted, is... Meh	14:52
aquatix	XTL: well, i don't think that xml version of wikipedia will be faster :)	14:54
crashanddie	lcuk, pong	14:54
lcuk	my spidey sense was tingling, did you solve your problem	14:54
crashanddie	depends, which one ?	14:55
crashanddie	brb, gotta grab some coffee	14:55
Khertan	http://users.softlab.ece.ntua.gr/~ttsiod/buildWikipediaOffline.html	14:56
liri	maemo sdk vmware appliance already contains the cross compilation tool-chain doesn't it?	14:56
lcuk	as a faster alternative to xml wikipedia, i have software which will produce tiff images from the text, then ocr it back in	14:57
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lcuk	liri, yes, but i dont know if its been updated for diablo	14:58
Khertan	lcuk > lol ... the worst solution ...	15:00
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Khertan	vmware is setted for chinook ... but to make diablo compatible application just change repository and apt-get dist-upgrade	15:00
crashanddie	s// /	15:01
crashanddie	s/\//\/\//	15:01
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Khertan	?	15:03
Khertan	oh ... there is a python-qt wikipedia reader ...	15:04
lcuk	Khertan, when you move to qt you will find theres pretty much everything	15:05
Shiggidy	so i heard there were 2 versions of rdesktop? anyone link to both?	15:05
Khertan	lcuk > qt sucks ...	15:05
Khertan	:)	15:05
liri	lcuk: yep, I see it now	15:06
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Khertan	the interest of a qt reader ... is to clean all this nasty qt thing ...	15:06
crashanddie	Khertan, lcuk sucks more than qt ? Is that what you said ?	15:06
Khertan	to make a great gtk reader :)	15:06
Khertan	crashanddie > lol	15:06
Khertan	'>' is added by this stupid windows irc client i use.	15:07
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aquatix	Khertan: config it!	15:07
aquatix	;)	15:07
Khertan	aquatix > yep ... format c:	15:08
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XTL	Make it so.	15:08
aquatix	Khertan: no, cfdisk, format /	15:08
lcuk	Khertan, according to netcraft gtk is dying. qt is rising	15:08
aquatix	lcuk: according to my crystal ball, microsoft is going to use kde as gui in windows 7	15:09
Khertan	netcraft ...	15:09
Khertan	who is it ?	15:09
crashanddie	It's the online nickname of The Doctor	15:09
aquatix	netcraft is an internet statistics site	15:09
aquatix	crashanddie: lol	15:09
XTL	Mmm.. internet statistics	15:10
aquatix	crashanddie: i've seen him! i've seen him!	15:10
aquatix	he was on the tellie	15:10
crashanddie	aquatix, which one ?	15:10
crashanddie	ah, ok	15:10
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crashanddie	everyone saw the doctor the telly	15:10
aquatix	crashanddie: i saw various iterations	15:10
crashanddie	or has seen	15:10
aquatix	;)	15:10
* aquatix has a doctor captured on dvd		15:11
crashanddie	anyone know if there's a bug about the freely moving desktop applets in OS2008 ? (as opposed to the locked desktop applets in OS2007)	15:12
crashanddie	and if so, which bug # it is	15:12
Khertan	80833http://www.maemo.orgJune 2000	15:13
Khertan	from netcraft ... and you believe them ...	15:13
Khertan	arf	15:13
timeless	does sjgadsby irc?	15:14
Khertan	fklsdjf lfjsdlfkj sdlfj ?	15:14
timeless	not-my-fault	15:14
mikkov_	offline wikipedia on nit would be pretty cool	15:14
crashanddie	there already is, isn't there ,	15:14
mikkov_	actually there is, i've used it	15:15
XTL	Although the point of the nit is kind of to have things online in reach	15:15
mikkov_	i used some dict viewer	15:15
XTL	Is there a dict to wp gateway?	15:15
* aquatix solders the wifi chip off his NIT's motherboard		15:16
Khertan	i see that in 2005 there is something interesting in the maemo roadmap : "UI development tool e.g Gazpacho with Hildon widget support"	15:16
Khertan	no news ?	15:16
mikkov_	there is dict files made from wikipedia dumps	15:16
crashanddie	aquatix, wouldn't be soldering, technically	15:16
XTL	Ah	15:16
aquatix	it would involve a soldering iron and melting	15:16
* aquatix doesn't see the problem ;)		15:16
pupnik_	anybody interested in a fun thing to port? http://siebn.de/index.php?page=burningsand/game	15:17
aquatix	i'd likely ruin the thing and the table i'm working on, but that's because my soldering skills are rather lousy	15:17
crashanddie	well, see, soldering implies the use of heat and melted metal to attach multiple pieces together	15:17
aquatix	crashanddie: i'd reverse the process	15:17
aquatix	antisoldering then	15:17
aquatix	fair enough	15:17
XTL	"desoldering"	15:17
aquatix	unsoldering	15:18
XTL	(which mostly describes removing solder)	15:18
aquatix	sounds like unraveling	15:18
crashanddie	pupnik_, that's not a fun part	15:18
XTL	un might give images of just breaking the joint	15:18
crashanddie	pupnik_, I don't know about you, but porting wine to an NIT looks like a major PITA	15:18
aquatix	crashanddie: in my case, it would still result in multiple pieces attached together	15:18
aquatix	like, motherboard fused with casing and such	15:19
XTL	Running arm binaries with a win api?	15:19
* aquatix should learn to solder correctly		15:19
pupnik_	crashanddie: source is available, SDL display backend	15:19
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pupnik_	it's surprisingly fast - curious about the data structures	15:20
* aquatix loves how the screenshots are exactly the same for win and lin		15:20
crashanddie	aquatix, it's not hard, the main thing to remember is "don't use too much solder, in fact, use very little"	15:20
XTL	Always tin your bit and all the leads you'll solder	15:20
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XTL	.. sparingly, of course.	15:20
aquatix	crashanddie: and don't sniff too much of the magic smoke	15:20
XTL	Magic smoke improves when you hit a drop of cyanoacrylate with the soldering tip	15:21
aquatix	ooh	15:21
aquatix	so that'd make me sniff both magic smoke and glue?	15:21
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* aquatix choose the wrong profession when he went into software		15:22
* XTL is in the process of remedying that		15:22
aquatix	XTL: but was that serious, or...	15:22
* aquatix has heard weirder remedies		15:22
crashanddie	I've soldered waayy too much :P	15:23
* aquatix doesn't even own an iron		15:23
aquatix	i've soldering tin though	15:23
XTL	I'm trying to get to EE.	15:23
XTL	I always wanted to, but kind of got sucked in to being a programmer and sysadmin	15:23
Veggen	aquatix: I do, but I'm clumsy with hardware, so I hardly use it ;)	15:23
Veggen	hardware just sucks.	15:23
aquatix	Veggen: :)	15:23
aquatix	indeed	15:24
XTL	Just bought a new iron/station	15:24
XTL	ahs, ass	15:24
aquatix	it needs to work	15:24
aquatix	software is more my thing	15:24
XTL	Hardware can be tortured.	15:24
* aquatix uses software for that		15:24
XTL	aquatix: But you'll know the software enjoys it	15:25
aquatix	uh-huh	15:25
aquatix	except when it starts panicking	15:25
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XTL	I wonder if electronics has the delicious cycle, too.	15:29
XTL	"I have some leftover chips, I should get some pcb and make circuits"	15:29
XTL	"I have some leftover pcb, I should get some chips and make circuits"	15:30
aquatix	:)	15:30
aquatix	"I have some leftover circuits, I should build me a robot army"	15:30
XTL	(I always just have spare chips, but I'm a packrat)	15:30
crashanddie	aquatix, I have 4 different soldering irons, and about 2kg of solder :P	15:31
XTL	I should get some microcontrollers. Still haven't got around to it.	15:31
crashanddie	XTL, where do you live ?	15:31
XTL	crashanddie: oulu.fi	15:31
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crashanddie	ouch, ok	15:32
XTL	Indeed :9	15:32
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crashanddie	Nha, cuz I have a bunch of Atmel AtMega microcontrollers here	15:37
crashanddie	XTL, and if you'd been anywhere near, could've sent you a bunch :P	15:37
msh	hm. there's nothing in /proc or /sys to look at power draw (mA/mW) for the n810 is there?)	15:38
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msh	or in the hardware (accessible by software) any way for that matter	15:41
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XTL	crashanddie: Nice. I'm not anywhere near most anything, though.	15:43
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lcuk	xtl, if you are brave you could try microwave soldering ;)	15:53
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Hrw\|n810	hi	15:55
Hrw\|n810	omweather does not update here	15:55
Hrw\|n810	someone got it too?	15:55
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crashanddie	sorry, quit using omweather ages ago	15:56
crashanddie	Hrw\|n810, IIRC, omweather simply uses Yahoo! weather	15:56
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lcuk	Hrw\|n810, dunno perhaps the webscraping has failed	15:56
lcuk	or the weather has stopped	15:56
lcuk	reboot the world and try again	15:57
crashanddie	Hrw\|n810, check if you have access to weather.com	15:57
Hrw\|n810	ok	15:57
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lcuk_work	bbiab	15:58
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aquatix	works here	15:59
crashanddie	here too	15:59
crashanddie	but he's gone	15:59
aquatix	meh, telepathy gabble or something was taking 200% cpu	16:00
lcuk_work	large tornado took him away?	16:00
aquatix	now my battery is drained	16:00
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Cptnodegard	forl @ jeppe	16:07
Cptnodegard	*rofl	16:07
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Khertan	hum... maemo.org still down ...	17:06
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LinuxCode	its not down	17:08
LinuxCode	check your shit	17:08
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Khertan	LinuxCode > main page is ok ... but look at the thing behind	17:11
Khertan	:)	17:11
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LinuxCode	behind where ?	17:12
Khertan	http://maemo.org/downloads/	17:12
Khertan	The following error was encountered:	17:12
Khertan	* Connection to 127.0.0.1 Failed	17:12
Khertan	The system returned:	17:12
Khertan	(111) Connection refused	17:12
XTL	w.m.o also throws a real error now	17:12
Khertan	of course it depends on where you connect	17:12
Khertan	as there is many caching system	17:12
Khertan	sometimes real error ... sometimes crap	17:12
liri	is it possible to play midi files on the n8x0?	17:14
XTL	I'm guessing there's no (exposed) hw synth, but you could run (port?) timidity and go through that	17:14
XTL	icbw. Having a hw synth would be funny.	17:14
liri	I'm wondering cause that would open up a whole new karaoke joke box window :)	17:14
liri	there's pykaraoke	17:15
lbt	FWIW, I'm getting intermittent errors on maemo.org too: can't login, some pages are blank, others are fine	17:15
XTL	They saw that the move was tomorrow, so they're hauling it back.	17:15
liri	pykaraoke I think depends on libsdl though isn't such good news I guess	17:16
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Khertan	libsdl ...	17:18
Khertan	is it available, isn't it ?	17:18
XTL	I imagine it would be	17:18
XTL	Yes, 1.2	17:19
Khertan	there is many users complaining on itt about ssu	17:19
XTL	In the base system even, isn't it?	17:19
Khertan	huhu	17:19
XTL	One thing I hate is not having everything in apt's reach	17:20
XTL	and in public	17:20
XTL	I guess they want to keep some of it hidden away	17:20
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Khertan	XTL > yes but make all thing visible , and you ll see more people complaining ...	17:23
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Khertan	ouch ... some user complaining about ssu update seems to have also sdk 4.1 repository ...	17:37
Khertan	is there a gtk designer god here ? :)	17:38
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brontide	Khertan: I think you're assuming that GTK can look good	17:42
Anunakin	Any knows if are a method to use socks5 under maemo? I think create a proxy and use it over a ssh tunnel (socks5) ...?	17:44
Anunakin	kkkk GTK <> Look good!!! :P	17:44
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crashanddie	Anunakin, could you rephrase that? Didn't quite catch that	17:49
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Khertan	brontide > :)	17:50
crashanddie	Khertan, get rid of the " > "	17:50
crashanddie	Khertan, it's annoying	17:50
Khertan	:)	17:50
Khertan	yep ... 2s ... i ll get a real irc client	17:50
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Khertan	yep ... a real irc client	17:57
Khertan	on windows ...	17:57
aquatix	which one?	17:57
Khertan	irssi	17:57
Khertan	:)	17:57
aquatix	ah :)	17:57
aquatix	the only real irc client ;)	17:57
Khertan	some of linux user say that emacs is the only real irc client :)	17:58
Khertan	+s	17:58
aquatix	emacs is a nice OS indeed	17:58
aquatix	has a nice irc and email client too i heard	17:58
aquatix	too bad it's missing a decent editor ;)	17:59
* aquatix runs		17:59
brontide	Khertan: I've avoided the OS known as emacs	17:59
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Khertan	maybe one day i should try it	18:01
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Khertan	crashanddie: you see ? no more '>'	18:01
Khertan	:)	18:01
crashanddie	aaah :) Nice	18:01
XTL	Positive	18:01
crashanddie	now make it a ",", and I'm really happy	18:01
Khertan	no no no ... irssi use ':' ...	18:01
aquatix	crashanddie: why?	18:01
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Khertan	so it should be ':'	18:01
aquatix	, is weird	18:01
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aquatix	indeed	18:01
XTL	: is traditional	18:01
crashanddie	no it's not	18:01
aquatix	crashanddie: then you're weird ;)	18:02
Khertan	it s the default irssi config	18:02
crashanddie	Hell yes I am	18:02
crashanddie	Khertan, way better, anyway	18:02
Khertan	so it s the standard ...	18:02
Khertan	:)	18:02
XTL	and , is used in more in random sentences	18:02
crashanddie	I'll tell you this	18:02
Khertan	:)	18:02
aquatix	i think `:' is better for addressing someone than randomly putting a pause character in a sentence	18:03
XTL	< crashanddie> Khertan, way better, anyway	18:03
crashanddie	':' indicates a direction, a specification, ',' indicates an enunciation	18:03
XTL	Was that to Khertan, Kertan and way better or Khertan, way better and anyway?	18:03
aquatix	crashanddie: exactly, i direct you	18:03
aquatix	+it to	18:03
crashanddie	in other words, I'm not only talking to some person, I'm talking to that person, and anyone who wants to join in	18:03
crashanddie	XTL, now you're just shagging mosquitoes	18:04
Khertan	hum ...	18:04
XTL	crashanddie: illustrating my earlier point	18:04
XTL	To a machine, that would be a killer problem. Generally, they don't care though.	18:04
crashanddie	nooo you're not, you're just abusing your point of view to try and put me at wrong	18:04
XTL	It's a matter of manners.	18:04
* Khertan use is notepad and writing in the funny expression section : 'you re just shagging mosquitoes'		18:04
crashanddie	it doesn't change a lot	18:04
Khertan	;)	18:04
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Khertan	s/writing/ write in it	18:05
XTL	You know, this is the first channel I've seen any disagreement on this.	18:05
lcuk_work	crashanddie, : you are wrong :P	18:05
crashanddie	haha	18:05
XTL	And there's generally irc-illiterate sentiment here	18:05
XTL	What's it been.. 13 years?	18:05
ywwg	I'm adding an application to the maemo website, and it says to save the entry before uploading a screenshot. I've saved the entry, now how do I edit it to add the screenshot?	18:05
crashanddie	XTL, what did you just say ?	18:05
X-Fade	ywwg: Use the floating bar.	18:06
crashanddie	"(XTL) You know, this is the first..."	18:06
crashanddie	that's my point	18:06
crashanddie	XTL, see what I meant now ?	18:06
Khertan	ywwg: before use the floating windows	18:06
X-Fade	ywwg: 'Page' -> Edit.	18:06
lcuk_work	so many clients, so many formats, no1 is wrong (except for crashanddie,)	18:06
XTL	crashanddie: Yes. In 13 years or so, every other channel has taken it for granted that you use colon.	18:06
Khertan	hum ... why not using ([{[{[Khertan]}]})>:_: ?	18:07
lcuk_work	xtl, but xchat by default uses "[name], "	18:07
XTL	And this is the only one where someone uses another char or another word for 'topic'	18:07
Khertan	it ll be clear :	18:07
Khertan	:)	18:07
XTL	lcuk_work: I'm sure it does.	18:07
crashanddie	XTL, so because they thought the earth was flat for a bazillion years, they were right ? Fundamental things should never be challenged ? :D	18:07
ywwg	aha. I didn't realize those were menus	18:07
Khertan	crashanddie: yep they were right ... ask to the inquisition ... :)	18:07
XTL	< XTL> You know, this is...	18:07
crashanddie	hahaha :D	18:07
lcuk_work	xtl, therefore its the right way. or are you gonna argue that x-chat doesn't rule the interwebs? :P	18:08
XTL	I wasn't using a fallacy, I was diverging	18:08
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Khertan	hey ... this is really not important ...	18:08
lcuk_work	no, its vitally important	18:08
XTL	lcuk_work: It probably does. Windows and IE too	18:08
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ywwg	gah, is the site incredibly slow for anyone else?	18:08
crashanddie	ywwg, everyone else	18:08
Khertan	ok ... don't move i ll configure irssi :)	18:08
aquatix	irssi is right	18:08
ywwg	crashanddie: thought so	18:09
lcuk_work	dont the rfcs define this?	18:09
crashanddie	nope	18:09
XTL	At least the bitchx is dead.	18:09
XTL	Protocol doesn't take part in content	18:09
XTL	¥< XTL> It's a matter of manners.	18:10
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* aquatix renicks to ..::aquat1x::..		18:10
Khertan	yeark ... it s seems not configurable ...	18:10
lcuk_work	actually, it sortof does, the inner protocol uses [nick] : [msg]	18:10
kpel	is there a reason for the libbz2-1.0 and libdb4.2 packages to be kept back in diablo?	18:10
kpel	apt-get cannot upgrade them	18:11
qwerty12	aquatix, yep, it's showing :P	18:11
kpel	(neither the application manager)	18:11
XTL	Mmm.. resonance :)	18:11
qwerty12	~lart the freenet irc server. I wanted to go in #dbox2 :(	18:11
* infobot burns the freenet irc server. I wanted to go in #dbox2 :( to a crisp with a laser		18:11
Khertan	{('[lcuk_work]')}:> now i m sure something is good :)	18:11
aquatix	qwerty12: talking about netiquette ;)	18:11
aquatix	Khertan++	18:11
Khertan	:)	18:11
aquatix	you forgot colouring	18:12
Khertan	Oh : ... colouring !	18:12
crashanddie	colors are disabled here	18:12
kpel	no colouring, please, please no	18:12
* aquatix waits till someone gets banned		18:12
Khertan	i forgot that !	18:12
Khertan	yep ...	18:12
aquatix	crashanddie: thankfully	18:12
crashanddie	aquatix, indeed	18:12
Khertan	thx to remind me this	18:12
crashanddie	test	18:12
crashanddie	but phat is still possible	18:12
kpel	failed	18:12
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X-Fade	http://gizmodo.com/5035456/blue-screen-of-death-strikes-birds-nest-during-opening-ceremonies-torch-lighting Quality software ;)	18:13
aquatix	X-Fade: yeah, classic	18:13
XTL	^C-colours. That was the time mirc ruled the unwashed seas..	18:13
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aquatix	about time mirc dies	18:13
mikkov_	X-Fade: is the autobuilder borked?	18:13
qwerty12	mirc sukzorz	18:13
Khertan	haha	18:13
X-Fade	mikkov_: I think it has something to do with the move of the servers.	18:13
XTL	xchat is a minor nuisance compared to that	18:14
aquatix	no more questions on how to get online on that mirc chat network	18:14
mikkov_	X-Fade: ok	18:14
X-Fade	mikkov_: The builder itself seems to be broken/gone/messed up.	18:14
XTL	I'm sorry, but I have to say this again:	18:14
XTL	At least the bitchx is dead.	18:14
XTL	:)	18:14
mikkov_	X-Fade: lots of UNKNOWNs ;)	18:15
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X-Fade	mikkov_: Yeah, I guess the autobuilder doesn't know what hit him ;)	18:15
X-Fade	mikkov_: -ESERVERMOVEDONEDAYEARLYSORRY	18:15
aquatix	kthxbye	18:16
aquatix	reminds me of my isp's system transition; also a day early	18:16
X-Fade	Well, it messed up my day :(	18:17
aquatix	thanks guys, now i can't edit that document on my home server from work anymore	18:17
Khertan	test	18:17
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aquatix	Khertan: pong	18:18
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Khertan	i ll be back	18:20
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dmes	anyone has an example of HildonWizardDialog ?	18:27
qwerty12	Can't think of any examples but it's used in Maemo FTP and Modest	18:29
dmes	qwerty12: ok.. thanks.. i'll check the source	18:33
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dmz	howdy y'all, anyone using an N810 here w/either a bluetooth or plugin headset & built in SIP-voip client?	18:35
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bhervier	gnieee	18:44
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Khertan	is there a irssi client for maemo ?	18:45
Khertan	... uhm bye ...	18:47
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AStorm	Khertan: you can build your own irssi too :>	18:52
AStorm	still, XChat is much more suited for the touchscreen	18:52
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konttori	Anything interesting going on?	19:06
Veggen	Hm. My kernel is dated june 11th. Is that the most recent? (just did an apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade)	19:07
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qwerty12	Veggen: Jul 16 is the most recent	19:12
pH5	what is up with the diablo extras autobuilder? everything I throw at it just returns a "[diablo]: ... UNKNOWN" e-mail.	19:13
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qwerty12	Is xmkmf in any diablo sdk repository?	19:15
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Veggen	qwerty: hmm. Then I haven't upgraded all...	19:16
pH5	qwerty12: isn't that provided by xutils-dev?	19:17
Veggen	qwerty: On uname -a?	19:17
qwerty12	pH5: Yep, thanks. Just compiled it now.	19:17
Veggen	on ls -l, it's dated jul 16.	19:17
qwerty12	Veggen: uname -a and /proc/version.	19:17
qwerty12	Veggen: run flash-and-reboot	19:17
Veggen	ah, thanks.	19:18
remex	w3	19:19
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GeneralAntilles	Anybody gonna make a 30-2 announcement for maemo.org?	19:21
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: I'm not sure if that makes sense. Especially if these updates are weekly orso.	19:21
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konttori	Good question. I'm surprised that there has been no official one	19:22
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, weekly?	19:22
GeneralAntilles	You're kidding, right? :P	19:22
GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3560	19:22
GeneralAntilles	That guy needs to either learn how to file useful bugs or stop filing them.	19:22
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Or whatever ;)	19:22
GeneralAntilles	I don't think he's filed a useful bug in his life.	19:22
Veggen	hmm. think browser is much faster, yes.	19:23
GeneralAntilles	I'm inclined to just INVALID most of them since they just end up sitting because nobody can actually figure them out.	19:23
X-Fade	konttori: I can give you rights to post announcements?	19:23
konttori	It's not my position to announce these things. Quim is on vacation and while he's away, I don't know who should be announcing such things.	19:24
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X-Fade	konttori: Well, I guess someone from your team should?	19:25
Luria	so, diablo's iptables... not so great	19:25
konttori	I'll talk tomorrow to people who should be announcing it. It may also be intentional that no so much noise is made of the update.	19:26
konttori	It was really made to fix the email power drain issue	19:26
X-Fade	And everybody will get a notification automatically.	19:26
Luria	to be fair, DEF CON was quite a bit of a test.	19:27
GeneralAntilles	If Nokia is ever going to provide real changelogs, announcements should really be made on maemo.org.	19:27
GeneralAntilles	Besides, it's a COMMUNITY site, we may just take it into our own hands and relieve Nokia of the burden. ;)	19:28
qwerty12	Using fbvnc on a tablet is a nice way to make you shut it down :>	19:28
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lardman	7pm UTC?	19:31
lardman	See you chaps later on	19:31
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brontide	SSU includes a new build of libssl so things like x11vnc won't install without an override	19:31
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brontide	and why doesn't maemo have libssl.so link to the most recent version rather linking directly to bare versions	19:33
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dneary	hi all	19:34
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pupnik	was ITOS affected by the debian libSSL low-entropy bug?	19:34
GeneralAntilles	pupnik, no.	19:34
pupnik	^^ knows everything	19:34
GeneralAntilles	Our stuff was (sadly?) way older than it.	19:34
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pupnik	hahaha	19:34
dneary	Is there any interest in the community council any more?	19:34
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GeneralAntilles	dneary, from me there is. ;)	19:35
dneary	Or rather, is there anyone with sufficient interest in the community council to organise it? :)	19:35
GeneralAntilles	brontide, you mean newer than 0.9.8?	19:35
GeneralAntilles	That'd be Jaffa	19:35
GeneralAntilles	The issue he's worried about is a CoI since he's planning to run.	19:35
dneary	I have to go in a minute, but if people think it's worthwhile, I'd like to take it on as a task for the next sprint (and since I'm taking 2 weeks holidays, it'll have to be rolling by Friday)	19:35
brontide	Must have been from the chinook libs then since I have 0.9.7 ( needed for x11vnc to install )	19:36
dneary	Jaffa?	19:36
pupnik	dneary: ok thanks for the heads-up	19:36
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dneary	I'll help you avoid CoI	19:36
GeneralAntilles	dneary, gonna be here for the Sprint?	19:36
dneary	pupnik: NP	19:36
dneary	I'm gonna be here for the IRC meeting layer, and for the next 3 days	19:36
brontide	either way there should be a libssl.so.X -> libssl.so.0.9.8 so that minor revisions don't bork apps	19:36
dneary	And I've been pretty down in the dumps the last couple of days - pre-holiday blues	19:36
GeneralAntilles	s/Sprint/Sprint review/	19:36
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: dneary, gonna be here for the Sprint review?	19:36
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, Jaffa'll likely be here then.	19:37
dneary	GA: Yes	19:37
dneary	s/GA/GeneralAntilles/	19:37
infobot	dneary meant: GeneralAntilles: Yes	19:37
GeneralAntilles	brontide, or, perhaps, better dependencies specification by packagers?	19:37
brontide	Won't matter since libssl does not have synlinks	19:38
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brontide	so until libssl is fixed, apps will need to be linked against one of them and that will break some chinook<->diablo compatibility needlessly	19:39
tuukkah	i don't see such symlinks on debian either	19:40
GeneralAntilles	^	19:41
GeneralAntilles	Symlinking system libs like that is usually a bad plan.	19:41
GeneralAntilles	That's really a packager issue.	19:41
brontide	You mean all the other symlinked system libs are a bad idea	19:42
GeneralAntilles	maemo.org's about as unstable as it can be. . . .	19:42
brontide	as far as I can tell libssl is the only system lib ( or one of the only ) that does not contain symlinks	19:42
brontide	at least under debian/maemo... works fine under RHEL	19:43
dneary	Gone - be back in a couple of hours	19:43
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tuukkah	brontide, maybe this is to the point: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qt4-x11/+bug/155784/comments/17	19:46
brontide	well then they are doing it wrong since RHEL got it right	19:48
brontide	Wouldn't be the first libssl mistake debian made	19:49
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Khertan_n810	i'm back	19:50
t_s_o	ugh, karel's less then usefull trolling in the ssu update thread is starting to get to me :(	19:51
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, what the hell is going on with maemo.org?	19:51
GeneralAntilles	Are we still mid-move?	19:51
Khertan_n810	haha	19:51
Khertan_n810	this is really funny to read some complain on itt	19:52
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brontide	hmm, this is a first, now browserd is stuck comsuming 100% of the CPU	19:54
t_s_o	bah, i need to cut back on the kaffeine while reading itt...	19:55
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, just cut back on the itT. ;)	19:56
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tuukkah	i was also confused by the ssu. does it make sense that "update all" complained about each package, "update" on the "operating system upgrade" worked...	19:56
qwerty12	f*** me, £210 for a dbox2, I don't feel like getting conned today :(	19:57
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t_s_o	dbox2?	19:59
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florian	qwerty12: oh, that's quite a lot	20:01
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qwerty12	t_s_o, Cable boxes. Made by Nokia, not in production anymore. I'm interested in running linux on one. Though the DM7025 is tempting to me though as well.	20:01
t_s_o	ah	20:02
qwerty12	florian, yeah :(. I'd grab one of ebay but they are already running neutrino on them. Not sure if I'd be able to flash it easily.	20:02
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, goddamn is that thread full of misinformation.	20:03
GeneralAntilles	tuukkah, please don't leave Red Pill mode on.	20:03
GeneralAntilles	Fucking Red Pill	20:03
GeneralAntilles	I'm going to have to begin punishing people who leave it on.	20:03
t_s_o	heh, murphy is having a field day ;)	20:04
tuukkah	i'd rather use apt-get, but i suppose i'd get punished either way =)	20:04
qwerty12	Karel Jansens would rather get fucked by a rhino then reflash the N800. Sounds odd.	20:05
florian	qwerty12: you need the original os?	20:05
qwerty12	florian, I've read you need the UCodes out of the original Betanova firmware :/	20:06
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t_s_o	qwerty12: its karel, nough said...	20:06
qwerty12	t_s_o, lol, yeah	20:07
t_s_o	he seems to be channeling ballmer lately tho...	20:07
GeneralAntilles	lol	20:08
GeneralAntilles	sjgadsby looks shirtless in his profile picture.	20:08
florian	qwerty12: well, it might be not leagl but I guess google will find them :-)	20:08
qwerty12	florian, so true, thanks. legality isn't a problem to me, I plan on following a friend who gets new keys every month on his eurovox :D	20:10
florian	hehe	20:10
Khertan_n810	does u found that modest work better with gmail after the ssu ?	20:10
Khertan_n810	metalayer is still here	20:11
Khertan_n810	:)	20:11
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Khertan_n810	it work much better after a killall modest :)	20:13
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lcuk_work	does anyone know which repo i can install "the ark" from?	20:14
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, Application manager shits all over itself and dies when mmc2 is corrupted and read-only.	20:14
qwerty12	I wish psdoom didn't use i386 asm :). It literally kills processors :)	20:14
* lcuk_work is drowning		20:14
t_s_o	ok, noted, i invalidated by request anyways	20:14
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GeneralAntilles	It caches the .deb files to mmc2	20:14
GeneralAntilles	I'm not sure about any temporary storage during the .deb unpacking and install	20:15
Khertan_n810	hum ... extras builder still amnesiac	20:15
GeneralAntilles	which is what clean might clean out.	20:15
qwerty12	lcuk, "the ark"?	20:15
t_s_o	ah	20:15
lcuk	yer, big boat thing where i can survive a flood	20:15
qwerty12	lol	20:15
GeneralAntilles	You have to build that from source	20:16
lcuk	:D	20:16
GeneralAntilles	"source" being a big stack of wood. ;)	20:16
lcuk	downloaded from god on a hillside?	20:16
t_s_o	iu guess i should have tried to get the app manager to do the update rather then gone for -unlocked, but for me to remove the offending lib i had to clear out things like python (i guess i got what was coming for me for mixing diablo and chinook)...	20:16
lcuk	apt-get install ark-instructions	20:17
lcuk	Error: Depends upon Christianity faith.	20:17
t_s_o	hmm, new mauku, interesting	20:17
MangoFusion	apt-get install faith	20:17
GAN800	-unlocked did fine here	20:17
GAN800	It'll be largely dependent on which repositories you have.	20:17
qwerty12	apt-get install pistol	20:18
qwerty12	Error: A pistol is too shit for you qwerty12, have an AK-47 instead	20:18
GAN800	Ha	20:18
GAN800	qwerty12, have you ever even seen a firearm? :	20:18
GAN800	P	20:18
lcuk	maemo.org profiles are a bit ummm bob. you get points for things like blogs or groups without actually supplying links to them	20:18
Khertan_n810	lol	20:19
qwerty12	GAN800, Well, does a Pump Pellet gun count :P	20:19
* GAN800 hands lcuk a stick to go poke bergie with.		20:19
GAN800	qwerty, no.	20:19
qwerty12	damn	20:19
lcuk	no, i cant go to the admins - if i do i have to admit the shame at digging myself down	20:19
rm_you	time to fly	20:19
rm_you	BBL	20:19
rm_you	much later :P	20:19
lcuk	you settin off already?	20:19
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* qwerty12 shoots rm_you while he is mid air		20:20
GAN800	lcuk, lie and tell them it was qwerty12. ;)	20:20
qwerty12	lol	20:20
lcuk	they will know its me	20:20
lcuk	i shouldnt be able to mark myself down :(	20:20
lcuk	<<< FIAL	20:20
GAN800	They enabled it just for you.	20:20
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Khertan_n810	... as extras builderiks still amnesiac ... i ll watch a zode of stargate ... bye	20:22
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qwerty12	http://psdoom.sourceforge.net/images/ss3.gif <-- My new favourite linux process manager	20:23
brontide	wiki.maemo.org is still 2 out of 3, only 30% of my loads are crapping out	20:23
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* GeneralAntilles pokes X-Fade again.		20:23
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GeneralAntilles	and _marcell_ ran away. . . .	20:24
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GAN800	New approach:	20:41
GAN800	X-Fade, is there anything in particular you want help with for the meeting? :P	20:41
* Jaffa sees his name in scrollback whilst waiting for the app to rebuild		20:43
GAN800	Community council	20:43
Jaffa	Ah yeah	20:43
GAN800	dneary may or may not have volunteered to help push it.	20:44
Jaffa	What we'll need is the voting system first and foremost; and as I've no idea of the underlying structure of .maemo.org, I've no* idea how much work that is.	20:44
GAN800	Apparently, from the lists, not a huge amount	20:45
GAN800	bergie and/or ferenc volunteered to work on that.	20:45
X-Fade	GAN800: Stop poking me!!! :)	20:46
GAN800	Hey, this one has a treat attached! :D	20:47
konttori	I'm getting permission denied when trying to upload to extras diablo	20:48
X-Fade	Heh.	20:48
konttori	Do I need to get special access to do so?	20:48
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konttori	As in, I've previously been able to upload to chinook with no issue	20:49
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X-Fade	konttori: No, that is intended behaviour.	20:49
konttori	So. What do I need to do?	20:50
X-Fade	konttori: Ever since the diablo release, it has been that way.	20:50
X-Fade	konttori: Get your application into extras-devel first.	20:50
konttori	?? really? Why?	20:50
konttori	Ah - into diablo extras devel I assume	20:50
X-Fade	And promote it via the promoter: https://garage.maemo.org/promoter/diablo	20:50
GAN800	wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras	20:50
konttori	So, I upload to /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-nonfree/diablo or /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-free/diablo	20:53
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X-Fade	konttori: Yes, but obviously we don't want too much non-free.	20:53
konttori	there was no /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-free/diablo	20:56
GeneralAntilles	Modest is faster and more efficient than Gmail webmail on my 867MHz G4. . . .	20:56
konttori	is it just incoming then?	20:56
pH5	konttori: I've always uploaded to /var/www/extras-devel/incoming-builder/diablo	20:57
X-Fade	konttori: You might want to read the documentation GA posted.	20:57
* lcuk titters		20:57
Anunakin	hey using maemo on SD? can I repatch the kernel?	20:57
Anunakin	hey any using maemo on SD? can I repatch the kernel?	20:57
GeneralAntilles	Anunakin, what does "repatch" mean?	20:58
GeneralAntilles	Reflash a patched kernel?	20:58
RST38h	moo.	20:58
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Anunakin	yes	20:58
konttori	AH. Indeed. Now it's uploading.	20:58
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konttori	the non-free is just fine for me. thanks	20:59
Anunakin	GeneralAntilles: because after update ... this stay loading from flash	20:59
X-Fade	Not that the package will reach the repo today... but hey ;)	20:59
konttori	I did scan through the page GA posted.	20:59
konttori	But I was not able to notice what was the 'free' location. anyway, thanks for your help!	20:59
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X-Fade	konttori: That is because we don't allow binary uploads to free. We always require source.	21:00
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X-Fade	konttori: And only non-free stuff should go to non-free, otherwise it will be removed.	21:01
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konttori	Well, I'm doing python stuff, so source is in there. However, the builder scripts might not work on it.	21:01
X-Fade	konttori: Check out py2deb.	21:02
GeneralAntilles	Did anybody file a bug about the webmaster mailto on maemo.org server-side error pages being "<webmaster>"	21:02
GeneralAntilles	?	21:02
X-Fade	Khertan wrote that to package your python script up for the autobuilder.	21:02
* GeneralAntilles doesn't seen one.		21:03
* GeneralAntilles files.		21:03
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: I can't remember seeing a bug for that.	21:03
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X-Fade	zap, pH5: I'm sorry, the ISP messed up and not it seems they have firewalled off the builder ;)	21:05
GeneralAntilles	"Muhaha, no builder for these losers!"	21:07
kpel	can you install unrar without problems? yesterday the apps manager was saying that the file was corrupted.	21:08
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andre___	anybody else also having problems with viewing wiki pages or is it just me? it needs several tries here to get the page displayed...	21:10
X-Fade	andre___: Yes, server overloaded.	21:10
andre___	ok	21:10
GeneralAntilles	#3563	21:10
GeneralAntilles	We now have an extra type of error message to see when using the wiki	21:11
GeneralAntilles	It's like christmas.	21:11
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: I like the 'Crap...' one ;)	21:12
Sargun	Maemo is so cool.	21:16
zap	X-Fade: cool	21:16
Sargun	I love your developers.	21:16
zap	yes, maemo is soo cool ;)	21:16
zap	X-Fade: have you read my mail?	21:16
Italodance	news?	21:17
Italodance	new games?	21:17
X-Fade	zap: Let me forward it to marcell, he should be able to look at it.	21:17
zap	I hope it gets fixed :)	21:19
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X-Fade	zap: It seems that the Packages.bz2 file wasn't marked as nocache. The others do.	21:26
Khertan	Hi ... again	21:26
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Sprint 3 review meeting in #maemo-meeting today @ 19:00 UTC https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint3 \| Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 \| logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ \| http://mxr.maemo.org"		21:26
X-Fade	zap: So that will be fixed in the near future.	21:26
zap	well I don't know how that cluster tech works :)	21:26
GeneralAntilles	Italodance, the question to "new games?" is always, "No."	21:26
zap	I thought it should propagate changes between different hosts, like OCFS2 does	21:27
X-Fade	zap: There are all kinds of options ;)	21:28
X-Fade	brontide: You should have gotten an invitation by now?	21:28
brontide	yep	21:28
X-Fade	brontide: Great ;)	21:28
GeneralAntilles	lol, how can you claim to "undestand" Red Pill and still try and install the Operating System update. . . .	21:28
brontide	Now I'm just going to have to figure out how to get this to work under PyPackager	21:29
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X-Fade	brontide: Ask Khertan ;)	21:29
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X-Fade	Look, I summoned him.	21:31
GeneralAntilles	Ha	21:31
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kkrusty	can I reflash from diablo back to chinook?	21:33
zap	Khertan: don't you know some replacement for g_filename_from_uri() in Python? It's a shame, but I see there isn't a direct wrapper for it...	21:34
GeneralAntilles	kkrusty, sure, but I can't imagine why you would want to.	21:34
kkrusty	GeneralAntilles: Well I couldnt find pidgin and some other packages for diablo	21:35
GeneralAntilles	Just grab the Chinook ones, then. . . .	21:35
kkrusty	GeneralAntilles: then why are they in chinook then?	21:36
GeneralAntilles	Because the package maintainers haven't put them through the Diablo autobuilder.	21:36
GeneralAntilles	In summary, for good reasons.	21:36
GeneralAntilles	Oh hell	21:37
GeneralAntilles	I forgot to attach the error message to #3564	21:37
GeneralAntilles	Now I can't get maemo.org to throw one.	21:37
brontide	Khertan: if I copy over .ssh keys and gpg keys I should be able to use the auto-upload portion of PyPackager, No?	21:38
kkrusty	GeneralAntilles: Im handing over my N800 to my brother who isnt very linux friendly. I just figured that he could go wrong less with chinook	21:39
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GeneralAntilles	Diablo is the way to go.	21:39
* kkrusty feels he didnt have to tell GeneralAntilles his life story but did anyway		21:39
Sargun	How long until Maemo gets on other devices?	21:39
GeneralAntilles	er	21:40
GeneralAntilles	Well, uh, the Beagle can run Maemo.	21:40
thux	hi, in os2008 how i get battery status in command line?	21:40
GeneralAntilles	thux, nitapps.com	21:40
GeneralAntilles	andre___, lol too many mid-air collisions on #3564. I'm not typing my comment out again.	21:41
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, I mostly wanted to see what people think about having a bugzilla link.	21:42
GeneralAntilles	Since we have one for the documentation pages, it might also work on error pages. . . .	21:42
Sargun	GeneralAntilles, I mean, a phone.	21:42
andre___	GeneralAntilles, you're quick. but i am too! :-P	21:42
andre___	yeah, the idea is good	21:42
GeneralAntilles	Sargun, "Nokia does not announce future hardware plans."	21:42
GeneralAntilles	Sargun, either way, hopefully not anytime soon.	21:42
Sargun	hehe	21:43
Sargun	hopefully?	21:43
GeneralAntilles	Yes, because cellular BS is bad juju	21:43
Sargun	How come?	21:43
GeneralAntilles	Having to integrate it with Maemo will just negatively impact the whole platform	21:43
GeneralAntilles	Carrier requirements, government requirements. All sorts of stupid crap that takes time and effort away from making Maemo awesome.	21:44
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GeneralAntilles	andre___, can we have all of tz's reports marked moreinfo by default yet? :P	21:44
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, google is DDoSing the website, then? :D	21:45
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: And msn and yahoo and...	21:45
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Sargun	too sad: -(	21:45
Sargun	:-(	21:45
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Well, it only takes a few more connections.	21:45
andre___	GeneralAntilles, haha, reminds me of one patch review by Karsten who once wrote "I hereby reject your next patch in advance" Can send you the link if interested :-D	21:46
GeneralAntilles	Ha	21:47
GeneralAntilles	Awesome.	21:47
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andre___	well, he was totally right. that contributor did nearly everything wrong in his patch	21:48
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Binky	Hi	21:54
* Binky recieved a cold welcome		21:55
X-Fade	Hi Binky ;)	21:56
GeneralAntilles	andre___, how's progress on doing away with "nobody@maemo.org"?	21:56
Binky	Woo Hoo!	21:56
X-Fade	4 minute meeting warning...	21:56
andre___	GeneralAntilles, for some components it's good, for many it's that developers tell me that they don't have time to also watch maemo bugmail. again stuff to discuss with bosses in two weeks, hopefully...	21:57
Binky	X-Fade, What?	21:57
GeneralAntilles	They need to make time, then.	21:57
GeneralAntilles	Or delegate somebody to be in charge of their public component.	21:58
andre___	I know of thoughts to have more people for this	21:59
Binky	oh, l Wanted to ask..., ls there any way to run jar files on ITs?	22:00
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GeneralAntilles	I need a set of all-white clothes for dealing with chlorine. I can never seem to avoid spilling just a little on myself. :\	22:00
GeneralAntilles	Poke @ everybody. #maemo-meeting	22:00
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa	22:00
housetier	jaffa	22:01
housetier	dammit	22:01
Binky	wtf? GeneralAntilles , is that an IRC Channel?	22:01
housetier	wrong paste again	22:02
GeneralAntilles	Binky, yes.	22:02
housetier	today is not a good day for me to be on the internets	22:02
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Sprint 3 review meeting in #maemo-meeting is going on NOW! https://wiki.maemo.org/100Days/Sprint3 \| Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 \| logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ \| http://mxr.maemo.org"		22:03
Binky	what is it for?	22:04
GeneralAntilles	See the URL	22:04
GeneralAntilles	Sprint review meeting for maemo.org	22:04
Binky	l don't get it.	22:05
GeneralAntilles	It's for maemo.org work.	22:05
Binky	Ok,thank you.	22:05
arachnist	is there a known bug about diablo and batteries getting out-of-juice?	22:05
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arachnist	(on n800)	22:06
amr	time to get playing with my 770 again :D	22:06
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amr	worth flashing it to 07?	22:07
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GeneralAntilles	I would go whole-hog and install OS2008HE myself.	22:07
GeneralAntilles	~flashing	22:07
infobot	flashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	22:07
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amr	heh	22:07
* GeneralAntilles needs to add an SSU section.		22:07
t_s_o	:P	22:07
Binky	amr, if you boot from mmc, yes	22:08
amr	i don't boot from mmc	22:08
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amr	not at the minute, anyway	22:08
atka__	hello	22:08
atka__	somebody can help me?	22:08
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atka__	i want to flash my nokia 770 with os2008HE, but i have a small problem	22:11
amr	good timing, i was thinking of doing the same	22:11
atka__	i download the image, and the flasher-3.0	22:11
GeneralAntilles	I'd also get flash booting going with that.	22:11
GeneralAntilles	and install the 48MHz kernel	22:11
atka__	48mhz kernel,	22:12
atka__	?	22:12
GeneralAntilles	For MMC bus speed	22:12
lcuk	memory card memory speedup	22:12
GeneralAntilles	bunanson has a guide up somewhere.	22:12
atka__	oh	22:12
atka__	i read it	22:12
t_s_o	bah, why did my 770 have to go wsod...	22:13
amr	:(	22:13
atka__	but now i want flashing simple my n770	22:13
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, warranty?	22:13
GeneralAntilles	atka__, flash away, then.	22:13
lcuk	cos the brightest stars burn quickest	22:13
GeneralAntilles	What's the problem?	22:13
t_s_o	GeneralAntilles: tried, nokia said no as its a usa model and im in norway	22:13
atka__	Suitable usb device not found, waiting	22:13
atka__	i plug the charger	22:14
GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, that's so lame.	22:14
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lcuk	t_s_o, lame excuse really isnt it	22:14
t_s_o	stupid end of life sale from expansys :(	22:14
atka__	and this is the problem:	22:14
GeneralAntilles	You got a local consumer protection group you could take that up with?	22:14
lcuk	norway is close enough to take the device directly to finland and camp in the reception of nokia until they replace it.	22:14
amr	lol	22:15
atka__	Usb device found at bus 001, device adress 003 (and under it:) Error claiming usb interface: operation not permitted	22:15
t_s_o	it also happened after the 21 day complaint time that expansys works with, even tho i would expect it to work like norwegian consumer laws given they have a page and office here. but damned if i can get hold of anyone with half a brain...	22:15
GeneralAntilles	atka__, sudo flasher-3.0 . . . .	22:15
atka__	hm...	22:15
t_s_o	so i ended up getting a used N800 and have been happy with that so far. still, that 770 is to date a expensive paperweight...	22:15
atka__	ok, i will test it	22:15
GeneralAntilles	atka__, "operation not permitted" pretty much always means you need root. . . .	22:16
lcuk	on the desktop end	22:16
atka__	^^	22:16
atka__	oooh yeah	22:18
atka__	flashing	22:18
atka__	thank you	22:18
atka__	and sorry for my lame question :$	22:18
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lcuk	atka__, dont worry, ive been asking sillier questions for the last 8 months :)	22:19
GeneralAntilles	^ the hilarious windows user. :P	22:19
* lcuk is eternally grateful to the members here		22:19
amr	i think i'll give thememaker another go	22:20
atka__	:)	22:20
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, :) i think im over my hump with most things now. gaining confidence and kinda seem able to do stuff	22:21
amr	i might just say screw it and buy an n800/n810	22:21
GeneralAntilles	Do	22:21
GeneralAntilles	They're lightyears ahead of the 770.	22:21
GeneralAntilles	Just ask Hedgecore.	22:21
amr	yeah but i'm not really using my 770 as it is :x	22:21
amr	mostly for ebooks	22:21
amr	i regret not picking an n800 up when they were dirt cheap around january	22:21
GeneralAntilles	ebay	22:22
lcuk	then keep it as is - some people need a calculator but get sold a macbook	22:22
amr	yeah i'm looking right now :D	22:22
lcuk	i could really do with another 8x0	22:23
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amr	another?	22:23
amr	give me yours pls	22:23
atka__	hmmm the os2008he sexiest than the os2007he :D	22:24
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lcuk	no, i need a pair of them to test some networking code	22:24
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amr	ah	22:25
lcuk	its not the same pretending my desktop is another 810	22:25
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amr	how handy, my tablet only receives data after it has sent some	22:30
amr	like on xchat	22:30
amr	messages only come in after ive just sent one	22:30
GeneralAntilles	psm	22:30
GeneralAntilles	Just let XChat idle. ;)	22:30
amr	i've been trying	22:30
amr	currently sat there with some old messages on it's screen	22:31
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amr	:/	22:33
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amr	that's annoying	22:33
GeneralAntilles	Well, it only increases the battery life by about 4 days	22:33
GeneralAntilles	Feel free to turn it off	22:33
GeneralAntilles	It's in the connectivity controls somewhere under advanced.	22:33
amr	what, wireless?	22:33
amr	:p	22:33
amr	oh?	22:33
lcuk	lardman, how do we deal with projects like you suggested where the author is not around	22:34
amr	wtf i didn't know it actually did that	22:34
amr	here i am thinking my router is busted	22:34
amr	or my tablet is	22:34
GeneralAntilles	wifi power saving mode	22:34
lardman	lcuk: no idea, assuming the author can't be contacted, I'm sure X-Fade could make someone new the admin	22:34
GeneralAntilles	Cycles the radio on and off a few times a second.	22:34
lardman	lcuk: it's just that I'd not even seen these	22:34
amr	hmm i don't see it	22:34
lcuk	but thats a bit mean - i suppose people wont mind	22:34
lardman	lcuk: perhaps I need to spend more time browsing Garage to see what's in there :)	22:35
lcuk	i agree - lots of things get started and not completed	22:35
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amr	GeneralAntilles where abouts is it?	22:35
lcuk	yer, like i said - if you wanna head up a programming posse to try to fix up some projects (maybe away from the general mailing list) i would join in where possible	22:36
amr	not seeing a power saving mode option	22:36
lcuk	we can pool our skills and bring specific projects forward a litttle bit :)	22:36
lardman	lcuk: I'm pretty busy atm with what I already have :(	22:36
lcuk	not the only one	22:36
GeneralAntilles	amr, somewhere in the per-connection configuration options.	22:36
GeneralAntilles	There's a tab for it.	22:36
lcuk	just keep it open - people will pull together when needed if the cause is worthwhile	22:36
amr	hmm i'll keep looking then	22:36
amr	thanks	22:36
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lcuk	we shall give you a batphone	22:37
lardman	but perhaps a bit of adversiting and a sort of sprint on a project might be good	22:37
atka__	heh, i start the web browser, and my tablet reboot, nice... :D	22:37
GeneralAntilles	swap on?	22:37
atka__	omg, no, thanx	22:37
amr	i see 'other' that talks about transmission power	22:37
amr	but not psm	22:37
lcuk	agreed - it was good seeing everyone doing a little bit on the barcode thing :)	22:37
amr	i see i can edit it using gconf though	22:37
GeneralAntilles	atka__, OS2008HE doesn't work without swap.	22:38
lcuk	let us know if you find something decent :)	22:38
GeneralAntilles	amr, OS2007?	22:38
amr	whatever is on the nokia 770	22:38
amr	so uh, 06?	22:38
GeneralAntilles	OS2005-OS2008	22:38
GeneralAntilles	Could be anything. ;)	22:38
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GeneralAntilles	Ugly blue/red/green/orange theme?	22:38
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lardman	lcuk: I might trawl through Garage and look for projects which a) look cool and/or b) are quiescent	22:38
atka__	i activate the swap, one minute ^^	22:38
GeneralAntilles	That configuration was added in OS2007, I believe.	22:39
amr	ah	22:39
GeneralAntilles	Maybe gconf, maybe not configurable in the old OSes.	22:39
amr	(with IT2006, it is not configurable).	22:39
amr	ah shag.	22:39
GeneralAntilles	Put OS2008HE on there	22:39
amr	looks like i'm upgrading	22:39
GeneralAntilles	OS2006 sucks.	22:39
amr	do i need to do anything special other than flash it using the tool?	22:40
GeneralAntilles	Nope	22:40
GeneralAntilles	~flashing	22:40
infobot	well, flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	22:40
amr	cool beans, thanks	22:40
GeneralAntilles	Just make sure you enable swap	22:40
GeneralAntilles	and I would look into MMC booting and 48MHz kernel.	22:40
amr	i'll google those too	22:40
amr	thanks	22:40
amr	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22155	22:41
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amr	heh, that looks like exactly what i need	22:41
atka__	now creating virtual memory for the card ^^ ):	22:41
atka__	:)	22:41
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atka__	yeah, working	22:53
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lardman	hmm, that authoritative list is curious, are there really that many "hamradio" apps?	22:55
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	22:55
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, a bit strange.	22:56
* lardman would be tempted to tweak AppManager to lump all non-allowed section tags to be placed under a "Junk" category		22:56
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GeneralAntilles	Hehe	22:56
GeneralAntilles	I'm not entirely against that as a possible solution.	22:56
lardman	Is there a list of the currently used section tags?	22:57
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GeneralAntilles	But I'd rather just see things put in the correct places.	22:57
amr	what on earth is the 'swap key' ?	22:57
lardman	i.e. the ones which we don't want?	22:57
brontide	Why does autobuilder even allow non-sanctioned categories	22:57
GeneralAntilles	amr, Home key.	22:57
amr	ah	22:57
amr	ty	22:57
lardman	brontide: indeed	22:57
GeneralAntilles	brontide, because we don't have a list of what's sanctioned	22:57
GeneralAntilles	and there wasn't a good consensus the last time it was discussed.	22:57
lardman	GeneralAntilles: some people may always want their own category though	22:57
GeneralAntilles	There was a sizeable objection from gcobb.	22:58
GeneralAntilles	Whose opinion should weigh heavily.	22:58
amr	updating, woowoo	22:58
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lardman	I do like the idea of debtags though, not sure how to make it work unconfusingly though	22:59
GeneralAntilles	I really wish we had somebody with a lot of experience and a real opinion.	22:59
GeneralAntilles	Rather than a lot of us just flailing around.	22:59
brontide	maybe an upstream guru	22:59
GeneralAntilles	Sounds like a good idea.	22:59
lardman	GeneralAntilles: I don't see any real problem here though, we just make a decision, see if it works	22:59
amr	i really wish opensource had some nice program designers :<	23:00
GeneralAntilles	Gotta find one. . . .	23:00
amr	instead of good programmers	23:00
GeneralAntilles	lardman, well, it tends to be non-trivial to change these things on the fly.	23:00
amr	as well as good programmers !	23:00
amr	even	23:00
GeneralAntilles	So getting something in that works well on the first try is important	23:00
brontide	I do like the idea of App manager lumping everything that it doesn't understand into Other	23:00
brontide	and then we can sort it out as we go	23:01
GeneralAntilles	and enforcing capitalization.	23:01
GeneralAntilles	An authoritative list enforcement by Application manager is good for localization, too.	23:01
brontide	How about an autobuilder warning	23:01
amr	oh my	23:01
amr	2008 is hot.	23:01
lardman	GeneralAntilles: I'll have to re-read the ml posts	23:02
lardman	bbiab	23:02
GeneralAntilles	brontide, maybe.	23:02
brontide	that will bring attention to the issue without changing the status quo	23:02
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I'm in favor of rejecting packages that don't comply.	23:02
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gentooer	do I have to do anything special to install the "OS2008 Feature upgrade 1:4.2008.30-2" if I boot off a SD card?	23:05
milhouse	GA: I think we should be strict, that's probably the easiest option. If it doesn't comply, reject.	23:05
GeneralAntilles	gentooer, nope.	23:06
lardman	GA: You're a pastafarian?	23:06
GeneralAntilles	lardman, only a little around the eyes. ;)	23:06
GeneralAntilles	I'm about as un-religious as they get.	23:06
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GeneralAntilles	milhouse, yeah so do I, but we need consensus before we can do that.	23:07
lardman	Just saw your "Praise FSM!" ;)	23:07
milhouse	Can't we just make a decision? :) Getting consensus seems to be one of the biggest problems - I'd say make the decision, and if anyone disagrees then deal with it after.	23:07
amr	is it just my device or is the max volume on 2008he super quiet?	23:07
GeneralAntilles	$DIETY wasn't coming to me, so I went with the next best thing. :D	23:07
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, prod that discussion on -developers again.	23:08
gentooer	GeneralAntilles, i just upgraded and overwrote my modified initfs and now i'm running off internal memory :(	23:08
GeneralAntilles	Some people who actually use the thing had some objections, so. . . .	23:08
milhouse	GA: Has the never ending packages debate kicked off again on -developers? I've not been paying attention to it much of late :(	23:08
GeneralAntilles	gentooer, when fanoush's flasher asks you if you want it to spit out a jffs2 image of the initfs, say "yes"	23:08
GeneralAntilles	Then copy that over to your computer	23:08
GeneralAntilles	Then you can re-flash your initfs with flasher-3.0.	23:09
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, not recently	23:09
GeneralAntilles	I'm still referring to the last big one from a few months ago.	23:09
milhouse	i thought we were close to agreeing a set list of categories, based on the maemo standard ones which everyone ignored ?	23:09
GeneralAntilles	No, the category list isn't the biggest issue	23:10
GeneralAntilles	It's still enforcement.	23:10
milhouse	if we now have autobuilder for extras, isn't it relatively easy just to boot out any non-confirming builds?	23:10
milhouse	oh right gotcha	23:10
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milhouse	well, how much consensus do we need? will 2 do?	23:10
amr	ok this may be massively obvious	23:10
milhouse	:)	23:10
amr	but how do i turn the onscreen keyboard back on with 2008he ?	23:10
GeneralAntilles	amr, use center-dpad to activate	23:10
amr	i realise 2008 devices have a hardware keyboard so i assume that's why it's not coming up	23:10
amr	ah i'm a lemon	23:11
GeneralAntilles	Thumb detection is funky in Chinook.	23:11
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GeneralAntilles	Diablo fixes it, but Diablo isn't yet (ever?) out for the 770.	23:11
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, we may want to put an RfC on the wiki and CC -developers.	23:11
GeneralAntilles	Give it a few weeks, see what people say, go from there.	23:11
GeneralAntilles	Helping X-Fade get the proposal in good shape is the first step, though.	23:12
milhouse	I would say that sounds perfect - make the proposal, and see what the reaction is... I'd say most will go along with it.	23:12
milhouse	a decision is better than no decision.	23:12
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GeneralAntilles	Oh hell	23:13
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GeneralAntilles	30-2 disabled maemo.org Extras.	23:13
GeneralAntilles	What the fuck, Nokia?!	23:13
milhouse	so it did - same here	23:14
milhouse	twats.	23:14
* brontide picks jaw up off the floor		23:14
amr	heh, not a good start	23:14
brontide	what do they use for regression testing a magic 8 ball?	23:14
amr	08he just soiled itself	23:14
GeneralAntilles	That retarded nokia-repositories package.	23:14
GeneralAntilles	andre___, should we add a 4.1+ version?	23:14
atka__	yeah, i added some of repos... i love os2008 ^^	23:15
GeneralAntilles	I'm tempted to file this Extras bug as critical . . .	23:15
* GeneralAntilles is thinking out arguments to justify it as "data loss" in his head.		23:15
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amr	atka__ is your sound screwed?	23:15
amr	seems like certain frequencies are being dropped	23:16
amr	like vocals in songs are massively reduced	23:16
amr	i can't hear sound effects very well	23:16
andre___	GeneralAntilles, yeah, also thought about that	23:16
andre___	will do that tomorrow, ok?	23:17
GeneralAntilles	andre___, yeah, no rush.	23:17
atka__	amr, i cant mean your question	23:17
atka__	:$	23:17
amr	can you hear sound effects okay in 08he?	23:17
atka__	oh, yes :)	23:17
amr	oh hrm	23:18
atka__	but i switch off sound effects	23:18
amr	this is frustrating :(	23:18
amr	yeah so do i, but my sound is very broken	23:18
amr	i'll see if it's the same with headphones	23:18
GeneralAntilles	konttori, ping.	23:18
andre___	GeneralAntilles, i want rush! push me! ;-)	23:19
GeneralAntilles	andre___, do everything now or stick poking will commence in 3... 2... !	23:19
atka__	off: there is a hungarian? :)	23:19
andre___	eeks	23:21
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andre___	Joreggelt.	23:21
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atka__	:D	23:22
atka__	Neked is.	23:22
amr	yeah my sound is definitely screwed	23:22
amr	and i'm randomly rebooting	23:22
amr	heh, think i'll download the image again	23:23
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amr	~flashing	23:23
infobot	hmm... flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	23:23
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GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3566	23:24
GeneralAntilles	Please vote.	23:24
GeneralAntilles	konttori, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3566 anything you can do to push that internally.	23:25
GeneralAntilles	That's really unacceptable.	23:25
GeneralAntilles	Downright evil, really.	23:25
GeneralAntilles	For a variety of reasons.	23:25
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brontide	GeneralAntilles: vote + comment confirming	23:27
brontide	Love it "Nokia doesn't arbitrarily screw with user settings on a live system."	23:28
GeneralAntilles	Man, that one really got to me.	23:28
GeneralAntilles	Everything about that is wrong	23:28
GeneralAntilles	There's no reason to touch Extras, they aren't changing anything.	23:28
brontide	At this point why isn't Maemo extras enabled by default	23:29
GeneralAntilles	The only repository they need to touch is the Tableteer upgrade repo.	23:29
GeneralAntilles	brontide, ahahah . . . no.	23:29
GeneralAntilles	maemo.org Extras being a community repository and not a Nokia one, they have no business touching it.	23:29
XTL	I didn't notice extras getting disabled..	23:30
brontide	Then why even list it be default	23:30
GeneralAntilles	The irony of ironies is disabling it with a package named "nokia-repositories"	23:30
brontide	s/be/by/	23:30
infobot	brontide meant: Then why even list it by default	23:30
GeneralAntilles	Because it's where people get all of their software from	23:30
XTL	Nope. Actually I got a second one	23:30
GeneralAntilles	So it's just a few taps to un-disable it.	23:30
GeneralAntilles	Rather than having to add it on their own.	23:31
X-Fade	New profile listing is in place.	23:31
brontide	It's just a single tap to run and .install file that will add it	23:31
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GeneralAntilles	Meh, you have to open a browser and find a website that has a .install	23:31
GeneralAntilles	That's more work to me.	23:31
XTL	What version of nokia-repository should there be on 30-2?	23:31
GeneralAntilles	brontide, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3279	23:31
gentooer	is there anyway I can just mount the internal memory partitions and access them directly?	23:32
X-Fade	https://maemo.org/profile/list/category/blogs/ for example.	23:32
GeneralAntilles	XTL, the only repository change is "diablo-1" for the upgrade repository	23:32
GeneralAntilles	Which seems like a bad way to do things to me. :\	23:32
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amr	how big an mmc do i need for mmcboot?	23:32
amr	08he if that matters	23:32
GeneralAntilles	amr, at least 256MB	23:32
XTL	(Again, base packages don't show a repo for me on policy)	23:32
amr	oh that's mine	23:32
amr	fine*	23:32
amr	so basically, flash to 08he, get the 48mhz kernel, flash the kernel	23:33
amr	then look at mmc booting?	23:33
GeneralAntilles	amr, right.	23:33
amr	(sorry for being horribly new, i haven't touched my tablet in about a year)	23:33
Anunakin	GeneralAntilles: Are you a user of oeforums?	23:33
GeneralAntilles	Anunakin, no.	23:34
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BULLE_	any particular reason the web-browser grinds to a complete halt whenever you visit a site with more then one or two flash items ?	23:34
BULLE_	it just runs out of memory or ?	23:34
*** BULLE_ is now known as BULLE		23:34
GeneralAntilles	Hrm, it'd be nice to have a full overview page for karma.	23:34
Anunakin	GeneralAntilles: OK... because on old times... I saw a GA on Zaurus forums	23:34
GeneralAntilles	Having a bunch of separate pages for each individual item is kinda awkward.	23:35
GeneralAntilles	and bugs is missing from the "sort by" list.	23:36
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Well, no. Now I can see that yerga is the absolute application king ;)	23:36
GeneralAntilles	30-2 would actually have been a good opportunity for Nokia to fix the Extras branding in Application manager if they were gonna fuck with it anyway.	23:37
* GeneralAntilles rolleyes.		23:37
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amr	christ i can't even open the repository list	23:38
amr	just rebooted, nice	23:39
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GeneralAntilles	amr, OS2007HE is a bit more stable if OS2008HE doesn't work for you.	23:39
amr	yeah i might have to give that a bash, heh	23:39
GeneralAntilles	I use OS2008HE and like it a lot, but it's hit or miss for some people.	23:39
amr	which tablet do you have?	23:39
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GeneralAntilles	770 and N800	23:40
amr	son of a bitch...	23:40
amr	it restarted again trying to open the repos list	23:41
GeneralAntilles	BULLE, because flash is slow and shitty.	23:41
GeneralAntilles	BULLE, flash brings my 2x2.5GHz G5 grinding to a halt sometimes.	23:41
amr	lol	23:41
GeneralAntilles	We have 400MHz and very little RAM to work with.	23:41
amr	07he is being downloaded	23:42
amr	what a pain	23:42
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GeneralAntilles	amr, I'd just get an N800 and call it a day. ;)	23:42
amr	heh	23:42
amr	i'm very tempted	23:42
amr	oh it rebooted again :x	23:42
GeneralAntilles	Something's probably wrong.	23:43
amr	it's the applications manager that does it	23:43
GeneralAntilles	could be a corrupt sources.list	23:43
amr	hum	23:43
GeneralAntilles	Though odd that the watchdog would kick in for that. . . .	23:43
amr	it's computers - they're generally odd :(	23:44
amr	i don't know whether it's doing it automatically after a time	23:46
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amr	i just typed in to x-term: cat /etc/apt/sources.list	23:47
amr	and as soon as i hit tab to complete sources.list - it rebooted	23:47
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GeneralAntilles	It also kills it when it goes too lock in a CPU lock	23:47
GeneralAntilles	Oh?	23:47
GeneralAntilles	Sounds broken.	23:47
amr	sounds massively broken	23:47
GeneralAntilles	Reflash?	23:47
GeneralAntilles	Odd, though.	23:47
amr	already done with a newly downloaded copy of 08	23:47
amr	i'll give 07 a go	23:47
amr	anything critical in 08 that isn't in 07?	23:48
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GeneralAntilles	A lot of fixes and improvements.	23:48
amr	oh :(	23:48
GeneralAntilles	New software compatibility.	23:48
GeneralAntilles	I'd try 07 and see how it goes, though,	23:48
amr	well i made do with 06, hopefully 07 will do	23:48
GeneralAntilles	It's not super-critical.	23:48
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GeneralAntilles	andre___, happen to recall the "tap-to-hide-notification-banner" bug number?	23:50
GeneralAntilles	Ahaha	23:50
GeneralAntilles	"It was my understanding that once OS2008/Diablo was installed, that future updates to the OS would not require a reboot".	23:50
GeneralAntilles	Awesome.	23:51
GeneralAntilles	Guess that guy is really, _really_ concerned about uptime, eh?	23:51
andre___	well. i think he's just a very average user.	23:51
andre___	err, don't even know which bug exactly you have in mind	23:51
GeneralAntilles	It's a Sean Luke bug	23:51
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GeneralAntilles	I'll find it	23:52
* timelyx chuckles		23:52
timelyx	my ipod required a reboot (or 2) for 2.0.1	23:52
timelyx	reboots are not really a serious concern	23:52
timelyx	a more interesting requirement is that you actually be able to use SSU at all	23:52
* timelyx is somewhat concerned about that part		23:52
andre___	GeneralAntilles, 1253?	23:53
GeneralAntilles	That's the one	23:53
GeneralAntilles	I think that's resolved for Diablo	23:53
GeneralAntilles	most infobanners seem to go away when I tap them now, anyway.	23:53
andre___	not all.	23:53
amr	heh, it was 08 that broke my sound, 07 seems to be okay	23:53
GeneralAntilles	No, active ones like "Updating..." don't	23:54
andre___	i'm still annoyed that after removing the lock and tapping the loudspeaker symbol, i have to wait to change the volume	23:54
timelyx	BULLE: you shouldn't expect anything to handle multiple flash applets well	23:54
GeneralAntilles	But stupid ones like "Nokia thinks they're a really green company, and thinks this banner will impress you" do.	23:54
andre___	haha	23:54
Veggen	ok, det ble ikke mer enn fire mil på sykkel. Vel, det holder vel.	23:54
Veggen	(pent og rolig og se seg om blir det jo sånn)	23:54
* GeneralAntilles is still really pissed about that bug.		23:55
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Veggen	uh, wrong channel.	23:55
andre___	Veggen, does that really belong here? :-)	23:55
GeneralAntilles	They've added it to the charing screen, too. . .	23:55
andre___	ah :)	23:55
GeneralAntilles	If Nokia ACTUALLY gave two licks about the environment, they'd stop producing billions and billions of disposable cellphones.	23:56
GeneralAntilles	Hypocrisy at its finest.	23:56
timelyx	GeneralAntilles: i was in the meeting about that	23:56
timelyx	it was very depressing	23:56
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timelyx	but basically my understanding is that it came from some EU reg	23:56
GeneralAntilles	No shit?	23:57
timelyx	and basically had nothing to do w/ being green and everything to do w/ regulatory compliance	23:57
GeneralAntilles	Awesome.	23:57
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timelyx	~free market ftw	23:57
GeneralAntilles	Can't they ship a US-only firmware so as to not piss me the fuck off? :D	23:57
timelyx	i was there because i was making some other ChangeRequest and we got lumped together	23:57
timelyx	heh	23:57
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GeneralAntilles	andre___, I'm so used to that stupid lock banner that I don't even notice anymore.	23:58
GeneralAntilles	Yet another reason we need soft poweroff.	23:58
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andre___	...and i should stop working for today and get into a club. well, half an hour left :)	23:59

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