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| GNUton | Hey guys, in the page http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/HOWTO.html#how-to-prepare-and-upload-source-packages-for-build what is the right fqdn in the dput.conf? | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| zfigz | Where do you put videos for canola to view them? | 00:04 |
| zfigz | hmmm, i think i might trash canola | 00:04 |
| zfigz | just seems so bloated | 00:04 |
| zfigz | allo? | 00:06 |
| zfigz | actually | 00:06 |
| zfigz | this app is cool | 00:06 |
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| GNUton | does anyone use dput here? | 00:07 |
| GNUton | mikkov_: are you here? | 00:08 |
| Jaffa | GNUton: garage.maemo.org - the HOWTO is assuming you've set up in ~/.ssh/config an alias of "garage". | 00:08 |
| Jaffa | GNUton: You might also find http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras helpful | 00:08 |
| GNUton | Jaffa: thank you! ;) | 00:08 |
| zfigz | I think Mplayer is better than canola | 00:09 |
| zfigz | Am I right? | 00:09 |
| hfwilke | canola uses mplayer to play the videos | 00:10 |
| hfwilke | it doiesn't actually play them itself | 00:10 |
| hfwilke | if you like the way you interact with canola to get to your videos/music/podcasts, then it is a worthwhile app | 00:11 |
| zfigz | yeah | 00:11 |
| zfigz | true | 00:11 |
| zfigz | I'd think it'd be slower using canola | 00:11 |
| hfwilke | I use mine for podcasts and music and it is great | 00:11 |
| lcuk2 | jaffa! | 00:11 |
| hfwilke | but it is all personal preference | 00:12 |
| lcuk2 | vala from diablo extras-devel installs fine in chinook if you add the right repo | 00:12 |
| lcuk2 | perhaps to make it easier, could you include it in the chinook repo? | 00:12 |
| crashanddie | zfigz, mind if I'm really honest with you for a minute ? | 00:12 |
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| Callahad | oh man. One quick edit to /etc/fonts/local.conf and now I have Dejavu Sans Mono in xterm, and it's wonderful. I can actually read things! | 00:15 |
| crashanddie | zfigz, I think we'd all really appreciate it if you stopped bitching about everything 24/7. Seriously, cut us some slack. If you have a problem, or think you found a problem: Help out: File a bug report. Think it lacks some kind of feature ? File an feature request. Think you can do better, and the coders are idiots ? Start your own project and write your own app. But for crying out loud, STOP BITCHING. IRC really isn't the | 00:15 |
| crashanddie | place for that, so take it out on twitter, or blog about it, but you're really not helping. | 00:15 |
| crashanddie | [/rant] | 00:15 |
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| beezul | tablets-dev.nokia.com is teh broken :( | 00:15 |
| beezul | anyone have a mirror of latest firmware and linux flasher? | 00:16 |
| tank-man | paste your serial so i can verify before giving you a url | 00:17 |
| zfigz | sorry crash | 00:18 |
| zfigz | I just got this | 00:18 |
| zfigz | sooooooo | 00:18 |
| zfigz | I'm just making comments | 00:18 |
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| beezul | yer funny, tank | 00:18 |
| crashanddie | beezul, you need the serial to get on the website, but there's wrong with giving your serial out... lol | 00:19 |
| crashanddie | it's just a mac address | 00:19 |
| crashanddie | any network you've been connected to has the "serial" of your NIT | 00:20 |
| Callahad | Is there a cleaner way to remap bluetooth keys than xmodmap? | 00:20 |
| beezul | he doesnt need my serial | 00:20 |
| beezul | to give me a mirror of the firmware | 00:20 |
| crashanddie | beezul, well in fact, he does | 00:20 |
| beezul | hows that | 00:20 |
| crashanddie | beezul, if he has an 770, he can only access the 770 repo, if he has an n800, he can only access the n800 repo, etc, etc | 00:20 |
| crashanddie | beezul, because you need the mac address (serial) to access the repo | 00:21 |
| crashanddie | beezul, what model is your NIT? | 00:21 |
| beezul | n810 | 00:21 |
| crashanddie | http://tabletsdev.maemo.org/nokia_N810.php | 00:22 |
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| crashanddie | which seems to be down atm | 00:22 |
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| tank-man | i dont have a mirror, but that url is down for me too | 00:23 |
| crashanddie | beezul, you'll have to wait AFAIK | 00:23 |
| zanshin | hello everybody, I'm trying to boot debian on a N770. I use 2008HE and I managed to get that booting from a mmc. I used the zip file for the N8x0 and installed it on the memory card. It doesn't boot and I can't see what's going wrong. Any idea's how to proceed? | 00:24 |
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| crashanddie | beezul, oh, and for future reference, want a serial, take a bite (pun intended): 00:1D:6E:D5:8B:D9 | 00:24 |
| crashanddie | zanshin, you should talk about this with johnx | 00:24 |
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| beezul | erf | 00:26 |
| beezul | ok | 00:26 |
| beezul | i dont see a pun | 00:26 |
| beezul | :P | 00:26 |
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| RST38bis | Flasher Goes Hi-Tech By Projecting His Junk on Buildings | 00:28 |
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| RST38bis | why did it take so long? | 00:29 |
| b0unc3 | hello | 00:29 |
| Callahad | What package is xev in? (or what repo, if not standard + extras?) | 00:30 |
| crashanddie | beezul, serial, cereal, bite | 00:31 |
| crashanddie | Callahad, gronmayer ? | 00:32 |
| Callahad | crashanddie, Which I keep forgetting about | 00:32 |
| Callahad | :) | 00:32 |
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| crashanddie | now that's useful | 00:33 |
| crashanddie | joining up IRC, and type /away | 00:33 |
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| zap | anybody knows how to launch a new browser with an html file in it? | 00:36 |
| zap | browser_dbuscmd.sh seems to work only if microb is already started | 00:37 |
| crashanddie | yeah, I have a script for ya | 00:37 |
| crashanddie | hang on | 00:37 |
| zap | browser --url= seems to work | 00:38 |
| crashanddie | http://slexy.org/view/s21fLV2uSA | 00:39 |
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| zap | ugh | 00:39 |
| zap | :) | 00:39 |
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| zfigz | What applets do you guys use regularly | 00:43 |
| zfigz | and crash, i love the maemo community. | 00:43 |
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| jeward | I use vncviewer, xterm, ssh, sshd and web most so far. | 00:46 |
| jeward | JUst getting it set up to do work if I need/want to. | 00:46 |
| Callahad | jeward, How does the vncviewerperform on the N810? | 00:46 |
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| jeward | AWESOMEly. :-) | 00:46 |
| Addison | Greetings gentlemen! | 00:46 |
| jeward | Be sure and get the experimental n810 one. | 00:47 |
| Callahad | I might have to :) | 00:47 |
| Callahad | Where'd you find the experimental build? | 00:47 |
| jeward | I tried just using a vncviewer tunneled through ssh, but that leaves much to be desired. | 00:47 |
| zanshin | crash, I read apple2 had it running on an n700. | 00:47 |
| jeward | I was afraid you'd ask me that... | 00:47 |
| jeward | Let me see if I can find it. | 00:47 |
| Callahad | hah! | 00:47 |
| zanshin | But his howto disapeared. | 00:47 |
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| Addison | For the love of a motherless goat, could someone point me to a .deb file for libglade2-0 (1:2.6.1) I've just wasted the past two hours trying to find this little bugger online. | 00:48 |
| lcuk2 | heh | 00:49 |
| Callahad | Looks like debian builds libglade for armel... should work, shouldn't it? | 00:49 |
| lcuk2 | addison? http://repository.maemo.org/pool/chinook/free/libg/libglade2/ | 00:50 |
| jeward | Callahad: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=119&release_id=1219 | 00:50 |
| Binky | It may break dependencies | 00:50 |
| zfigz | What's libglade? | 00:51 |
| Callahad | hm, and glade libglade probably has a reasonably huge chain of deps :/ | 00:51 |
| Addison | I think I tried that one before lcuk2, but I'll try it again. | 00:51 |
| lcuk2 | are you in chonook or diablo? | 00:51 |
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| jeward | So, how does the maemo community work? Does someone take responsibility for packages like debian proper and keep it up to date? | 00:52 |
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| rm_you | lcuk2: you fill out this form already? | 00:52 |
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| jeward | As in, seeing that vncviewer is not available for diablo, I could take it over and make it so? | 00:53 |
| Addison | Hey lcuk2, I'm using a fresh install of Diablo, nothing on it yet. Anyway, that version you gave me was 1:2.4.0, I need 1:2.6.1 | 00:54 |
| Binky | Anyway, i am here asking for help. Maemo Recorder does not work for me. When I push the recording button it says ’Stopped’ and nothing happens, it won’t record. | 00:54 |
| jeward | Assuming I can figure out how to cross-compile. | 00:54 |
| lcuk2 | try this then | 00:54 |
| lcuk2 | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/libg/libglade2/ | 00:54 |
| lcuk2 | its brand new, not sure of actual ver | 00:54 |
| lcuk2 | rm_you, i have a technical delay. | 00:54 |
| Callahad | jeward, The maemo-sdk is pretty decent and has nice docs, iirc | 00:54 |
| rm_you | hrm, well... do you know if "GSM NBR: " means "cell phone number"? | 00:55 |
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| lcuk2 | jeward, have you tried just grabbing the diablo .deb or adding the diablo repo to your list: the greater majority of the applications compiled for chinook will simply work | 00:55 |
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| lcuk2 | grabbing the chinook .deb ^ | 00:55 |
| jeward | lcuk2: It works fine. I'm just saying, I had to work pretty hard to find it. | 00:56 |
| jeward | It's not available via the normal route. | 00:56 |
| lcuk2 | :) it took me longer to find the server | 00:56 |
| jeward | Hmm, I haven't tried that! | 00:57 |
| jeward | Where is it. :-) | 00:57 |
| lcuk2 | works really well | 00:57 |
| lcuk2 | oh feck knows - i think i found some build on a website somewhere | 00:57 |
| jeward | :) | 00:57 |
| lcuk2 | lemme see if i have link - im normally quite productive like that | 00:57 |
| jeward | Awesome! | 00:57 |
| Addison | Hey lcuk2, that second link you gave me has the same thing, version 1:2.4.0, still trying to find 1:2.6.1 :( | 00:59 |
| lcuk2 | http://mike.saunby.googlepages.com/x11vncfornokia7702 | 00:59 |
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| zap | anybody know a way to include png files in a debian patch? | 00:59 |
| Callahad | Well, it's 5:00. Time to get out of work. Take care folks. | 00:59 |
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| rm_you | lcuk2: want to do a lightning session for maemo-barcode? :P | 01:00 |
| jeward | Thanks lcuk2! | 01:00 |
| lcuk2 | Addison, not sure then - whats it from that you are trying to run? | 01:00 |
| rm_you | lcuk2: we'd have to do a bit of work to get it to a nice usable state :P | 01:00 |
| lcuk2 | im already doing one on liqbase | 01:00 |
| Addison | Trying to run Qwerty's Roxterm. | 01:01 |
| lcuk2 | i hope 5 minutes is enough, after last time it should be | 01:01 |
| lcuk2 | addison, if its qwertys it will be bleeding edge, you will hgave to see if he compiled it and put it up anywhere (look on his normal pacakage weblist) | 01:01 |
| zfigz | What's the Diablo Repo? | 01:01 |
| lcuk2 | its the repo of diablo | 01:01 |
| zfigz | Yes | 01:02 |
| zfigz | But do you have the link for it? | 01:02 |
| zfigz | So I can be sure I have it cataloged in the app manager. | 01:02 |
| lcuk2 | i dunno the deb format and i havent got it (im still on chinook)_ | 01:02 |
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| lcuk2 | >> but thats the location http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/ | 01:03 |
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| rm_you | lcuk2: could do a maemo-barcode one too :P | 01:06 |
| crashanddie | hey, my DNS server just shat itself | 01:06 |
| crashanddie | can anyone give me the DNS servers of opendns ? | 01:06 |
| rm_you | crashanddie: grats? | 01:06 |
| rm_you | lol | 01:06 |
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| crashanddie | (just type wikipedia opendns in google, give me the first IP) | 01:07 |
| crashanddie | ~google wikipedia opendns | 01:07 |
| crashanddie | ~lart infobot | 01:08 |
| * infobot grabs a large, mis-shapened log, with squirrels, and beats crashanddie until only the nuts remain ... which the squirrels run off with | 01:08 | |
| rm_you | GAN800: yo? | 01:08 |
| Grackle | # 208.67.222.222 (resolver1.opendns.com) | 01:08 |
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| Addison | Hey lcuk2, this is what I've been after for the past 3 hours.... http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20918 | 01:09 |
| rm_you | Jaffa: you going to have a mediaserv demo? you should | 01:09 |
| rm_you | Jaffa: and I could help run that if you have other things to do ;P | 01:09 |
| rm_you | would be good to show off how well the devices can play video | 01:09 |
| rm_you | and would be a more interesting demo if that also included using a streaming thing like mediaserv :) | 01:10 |
| * lcuk2 hopes to be streaming things | 01:10 | |
| rm_you | lcuk2: my goal will be to get barcode scraping amazon for books/cds/dvds/etc | 01:10 |
| Addison | Any more ideas on this lcuk2? | 01:11 |
| lcuk2 | good on ya | 01:11 |
| rm_you | and then demo that | 01:11 |
| lcuk2 | Addison, no, im happy with my console | 01:11 |
| Addison | Nuts. | 01:11 |
| rm_you | it could get amazon prices / dealtime.com etc prices | 01:11 |
| Addison | I'll just email Qwerty then. :) | 01:11 |
| lcuk2 | im so gonna print off some of the better barcodes onto stickers | 01:12 |
| rm_you | lcuk2: LOL | 01:12 |
| rm_you | stick them on people's backs | 01:12 |
| rm_you | at OSiM | 01:12 |
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| rm_you | you going to OSiM? | 01:12 |
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| rm_you | X-Fade: do you remember why it was that I couldnt get into the wiki before? something about my username being weird? | 01:14 |
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| zfigz | Has anyone tried any of the third party file managerse? | 01:14 |
| zfigz | DCM looks good | 01:14 |
| zfigz | MC I mean | 01:14 |
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| Addison | Okay, here's one last question. Does anyone know how to Telnet using "CP 437" coding instead of the default Unicode "UTF-8"? | 01:16 |
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| Addison | Ah crap, Qwerty's email bin is full and can't accept any more messages..... Then depression sets in. :( | 01:21 |
| beezul | telnet doesn't care about what character set you're using | 01:22 |
| Addison | I'm trying to use IBMgraphics in Telnet instead of DECgraphics. Make any sense? | 01:22 |
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| beezul | nope | 01:23 |
| beezul | sorry | 01:23 |
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| beezul | im unfamiliar with graphical telnet sessions | 01:23 |
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| Addison | Yeah, I tend to confuse myself as well. *lol* | 01:23 |
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| beezul | sigh | 01:24 |
| * beezul is waiting mostly patiently for tabletsdev to come back online | 01:24 | |
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| crashanddie | Addison, why the hell would you want telnet to use some dodgy charset ? | 01:28 |
| * lcuk2 puts money on nethack | 01:29 | |
| lcuk2 | most people who want fonts in consoles want to play games | 01:30 |
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| crashanddie | it's not a font | 01:30 |
| crashanddie | it's a charset | 01:30 |
| crashanddie | which could mean he's trying to retrieve some file or something | 01:30 |
| crashanddie | but again, why use telnet | 01:30 |
| crashanddie | and if he's trying to watch star wars over telnet on his NIT | 01:31 |
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| crashanddie | he should be slayed | 01:31 |
| rm_you | lol | 01:31 |
| Addison | Yeah, busted. It's simply for Nethack there crashanddie. *reels in embarrassment* | 01:35 |
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| disq | flac experts here? mplayer (or even xmms with flac.so installed) skips some flacs after a couple secs playtime. ideas? | 01:36 |
| lcuk2 | lol Addison :D was i right | 01:36 |
| zfigz | What do you fellas use for a file manager? | 01:36 |
| lcuk2 | windows explorer | 01:36 |
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| zfigz | hehe | 01:37 |
| lcuk2 | zfigz, i wasnt joking | 01:38 |
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| zfigz | oh... | 01:38 |
| lcuk2 | :D | 01:38 |
| zfigz | I'm talking about via maemo | 01:38 |
| zfigz | there's 3 file managers | 01:38 |
| zfigz | GPE's | 01:38 |
| zfigz | default | 01:38 |
| zfigz | and | 01:38 |
| zfigz | MC | 01:38 |
| lcuk2 | default | 01:39 |
| Blafasel | Same here. The default one is fine for me | 01:39 |
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| robink | Woah, what's up with releases.maemo.org? | 01:40 |
| lcuk2 | if i ever need to breakout whilst on the device and edit a file outside pygtkeditor's file select nicely opens at / | 01:40 |
| Blafasel | 403 for you as well, robink ? | 01:40 |
| robink | Blafasel: Yeah | 01:41 |
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| mikkov_ | what's supposed to be in releases.maemo.org? | 01:46 |
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| robink | mikkov_: The maemo packagelists and .deb files. | 01:48 |
| MangoFusion | what's really in releases.maemo.org? | 01:49 |
| mikkov_ | isn't it repository.maemo.org? | 01:50 |
| robink | oops, got the two confused | 01:50 |
| beezul | tabetdev is offline too | 01:50 |
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| rm_you | Jaffa: ping | 02:25 |
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| rm_you | bbl | 02:40 |
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| smackpotato | hii | 03:02 |
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| Callahad | wow do I ever love my N810, even if it can't recognize my handwriting very well... | 03:37 |
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| Toba | i never use the handwriting support | 03:38 |
| Toba | maybe i should | 03:38 |
| Callahad | (That took almost 2 minutes to write :() | 03:39 |
| Callahad | Or maybe it didn't. But it did feel like it. What are the timestamps? | 03:39 |
| Callahad | (between my join and that message) | 03:40 |
| derf | 4 minutes. | 03:40 |
| Callahad | Hey, it only felt like two! That's a good user experience ;) | 03:40 |
| Callahad | Toba, I find it more natual to drop down to handwriting support if I already have the styus in my hand. Juggling between poking the screen and using the keyboard isn't terribly comfortable for me. | 03:41 |
| Callahad | Of course, I haven't found a way to hold the device that works for both the keypad and the touchscreen equally well. | 03:41 |
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| elekt | it'd be cool if you could write whole words then go back and put a separator between letters | 03:46 |
| Callahad | Or if you didn't run out of room while writing more than a word or two :) | 03:47 |
| elekt | i can write pretty small | 03:47 |
| elekt | but separating the letters takes forever | 03:47 |
| elekt | could get comfortable with it | 03:47 |
| elekt | couldn't | 03:47 |
| Callahad | Heh, even better would be writing whole words and just having them be recognized :) | 03:49 |
| elekt | i think that might be asking a little too much | 03:49 |
| elekt | but while we're dreaming, i could use a bluetooth mind-reading helmet | 03:49 |
| Callahad | Do any major desktop / tablet implementations support that at this point? | 03:50 |
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| elekt | i don't think so | 03:50 |
| elekt | i haven't seen palm's lately | 03:50 |
| elekt | but i doubt it | 03:50 |
| Callahad | Hm. I wouldn't think it would be too terribly hard for print, Look at the strokes in order, flush a letter when one matches. | 03:51 |
| Callahad | You'd need conditional lookaheads for things like | + - = t | 03:51 |
| elekt | it'd be terribly hard for me | 03:52 |
| elekt | to make :) | 03:52 |
| Callahad | The actual matching algorithm would be the hard part, but I think the stroke accumulator would be reasonably straightforward. Use some sort of unsupervised learning algorithm... | 03:54 |
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| Callahad | Though I do have much easier targets to hit as I learn this platform. Namely, I want a quick GUI for ssh port forwarding and a home screen applet for tracking FedEx/DHL/UPS shipments :) | 03:55 |
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| * robink attempts to get pygtk reinstalled on his Gentoo system. | 04:26 | |
| robink | I think the first apps I'm going to write for my N810 will be in Python. | 04:26 |
| derf | Somewhre, an embedded developer is crying. | 04:27 |
| robink | Python on embedded? | 04:27 |
| * robink is more disturbed by the fact that he installed gcc on his Maemo device. | 04:27 | |
| Callahad | hey now, my S60 phone runs python just fine :) | 04:28 |
| derf | Callahad: Online handwriting recognition isn't that hard, but you don't want to do it on a whole-word basis. | 04:29 |
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| derf | Maybe build it up from trigrams or somesuch, but whole words is just too many classes. | 04:29 |
| derf | And don't ever try to support cursive. | 04:30 |
| Callahad | wouldn't a whole word pass against a dictionary provide a useful heuristic, though? | 04:31 |
| derf | A language model does give a boost to recognition rate, but you have to be pretty high already for the search to not be prohibitively expensive. | 04:33 |
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| brontide | and you end up with the flickr bug | 04:34 |
| derf | It's one thing when you have a letter or two off, and a simple string edit distance gives you two or three possibilities to check. | 04:34 |
| brontide | http://www.google.com/reader/view/#search/flickr/5 | 04:34 |
| derf | It's another when you're unsure about 4 or 5, and there are 5,000 possibilities to check. | 04:34 |
| brontide | doh | 04:34 |
| brontide | http://www.tuaw.com/2008/07/22/your-iphone-dislikes-flickr/ | 04:35 |
| Callahad | derf, I hadn't thought about the scale of branching; that would be significant in this case, though | 04:36 |
| derf | I've done research in this area. | 04:36 |
| Callahad | ah | 04:37 |
| brontide | derf: which is why I still think graffiti was genius. Simplify the writing to to the point where it hard to screw up. | 04:37 |
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| derf | brontide: Yeah, that would be nice... | 04:38 |
| t_s_o | hmm, i recall reading about a indian pda that used a 3x3 grid to tap out letters. i think they called their system tapatap. dont recall what happened to it tho, but the device was supposed to be linux based... | 04:39 |
| t_s_o | bingo, its still there it seems: http://www.simputer.org/simputer/downloads/software/tapatap/ | 04:40 |
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| Callahad | Ooh, I just remembered dasher -- has that been ported to maemo? | 04:41 |
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| t_s_o | the browser really needs a way to launch component settings. a simple button in the components dialog that would launch a url would probably do, as then one could point that at a chrome: | 04:54 |
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| derf | Just make a bookmark. | 04:54 |
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| t_s_o | while that work, i dont see that as a ideal solution as bookmarks have a habbit of being deleted... | 04:55 |
| brontide | I just use del.icio.us | 05:00 |
| t_s_o | :P | 05:02 |
| tank-man | anyone tried the url "about:config" in the current browser? doesnt work for me, just sits there eating cpu | 05:02 |
| tank-man | or i should just wait longer | 05:03 |
| brontide | took about 5 seconds | 05:03 |
| tank-man | guess its me | 05:03 |
| brontide | do you have adblock or any plugins? | 05:03 |
| t_s_o | works fine here | 05:03 |
| tank-man | thanks for the input, now to diagnose it | 05:05 |
| Proteous | how about diagear it? | 05:05 |
| Proteous | or diageye it | 05:06 |
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| lophyte | hey all.. is there a way to export routes from google maps/earth to load into maemo mapper? | 05:55 |
| Proteous | through the interface in the maemo mapper app | 05:55 |
| lophyte | any other way? | 05:55 |
| Proteous | http://gnuite.com/cgi-bin/gpx.cgi | 05:56 |
| * lophyte thinks it would be nice if there was a KML to GPX converter | 05:56 | |
| lophyte | I've got a route that I custom-made with multiple waypoints in google earth, i was hoping to load that into MM | 05:56 |
| * beezul thinks it would be nice if the flasher and firmware upgrade site was up | 05:56 | |
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| brontide | http://www.gpsbabel.org/capabilities.html | 06:01 |
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| lophyte | brontide: oh, sweet | 06:02 |
| lophyte | thanks | 06:02 |
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| wolfspirit | gah.. sold my n800 to get the n810 and it's no longer 299 at tigerdirect.. anyone know of any place to get the n810 for cheap? | 06:14 |
| Proteous | don't see it for that much anywhere anymore | 06:17 |
| Proteous | best deal I see is a amazon warehouse deal for $330, used | 06:17 |
| Proteous | that's where I got mine | 06:18 |
| Proteous | looked perfect, but It didn't come with a data cable | 06:18 |
| Proteous | or a car charger | 06:18 |
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| Callahad | wolfspirit, Compusa had it for $300 recently | 06:19 |
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| wolfspirit | yeah I know.. it's gone now.. well.. tigerdirect/compusa canada has it but it won't give me the option of shipping to the US | 06:20 |
| Callahad | You could probably get a pretty sweet deal on a used N810 once the WiMax editions start coming out. | 06:21 |
| Callahad | Or maybe not, if WiMax rollout keeps stalling :/ | 06:21 |
| wolfspirit | anyone know anything about the open moko and if it's any good? | 06:22 |
| Proteous | any good for what? | 06:22 |
| Proteous | not really as a replacement for a IT | 06:22 |
| Proteous | as a phone it should be fine although it won't have any data capabilities | 06:23 |
| wolfspirit | how about the zaurus models? | 06:23 |
| Proteous | don't know anything about them | 06:24 |
| wolfspirit | hmm what do you think.. if I got to the canada site and use an auto fill with my paypal account it lets me purchase it but says: Loveland,-- Select Province -- 45140 Canada instead of Ohio | 06:27 |
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| gustnado | register passwd | 06:34 |
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| gustnado | anyone using Eclipse for maemo devel? | 06:40 |
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| gustnado | testing 123 anyone out there? | 06:44 |
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| halley | Anyone have an N810 WiMAX? | 06:53 |
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| gustnado | hally, I have an 810 but not wimax | 06:57 |
| halley | So do I. | 06:57 |
| halley | Wondered if WiMAX actually delivers in US. | 06:57 |
| gustnado | I think Sprint has it in a few cities, but I was reading recently in a trade rag that it isn't likely to be a widely | 06:57 |
| gustnado | used standard | 06:57 |
| halley | Yeah, that's my impression. | 06:58 |
| gustnado | because 4G cellular will overcome it | 06:58 |
| gustnado | I think Sprint plans to roll it out system wide | 06:58 |
| gustnado | but that could change | 06:58 |
| gustnado | I used ot have Sprint's microwave internet service (no cable or DSL at my home) and they were going to change that to something new - I think wimax | 06:58 |
| gustnado | I am in Phoenix | 06:58 |
| gustnado | but they aren't here yet and now I have DSL | 06:58 |
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| gustnado | I am trying to figure out how to get started developing on the N810 | 06:59 |
| gustnado | err. for it | 06:59 |
| halley | python as much as possible | 06:59 |
| mesocyclone | I am most confy with C, as I did it for a living for almost 20 years | 07:00 |
| mesocyclone | and still use it on embedded products | 07:00 |
| halley | I'm comfy with C also but cross-compiling sucks for hobbyists. | 07:00 |
| halley | Too much extra hassle to set up on your host machine. | 07:00 |
| gustnado | oops - answered on the wrong window. I'm also mesocyclone - was just getting my IRC working | 07:00 |
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| gustnado | well, therre is a cross-compilation system already built for N810. I've compiled little programs and one big program (that I didn't write) successfully. | 07:01 |
| gustnado | It is a VMWARE package, so you just download it, fire it up in VMWare and it is ready to go | 07:02 |
| gustnado | I don't have time to do more than hobbyist stuff on this machine either | 07:02 |
| gustnado | I just wanted a programmable GPS | 07:02 |
| gustnado | there are about 260 people logged into this channel and it is very quiet. Hmmm | 07:03 |
| Grackle | mmm. | 07:04 |
| gustnado | mmm | 07:04 |
| halley | Of course, setting up vmware is also an "extra hassle." | 07:06 |
| gustnado | true. I run it on WindowsXP and then run my Linuxes on top of it | 07:06 |
| gustnado | it's really easy to set up that way - just a big download for vmware and a bigger one for the maemo package, and you've got it | 07:07 |
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| halley | That just sounds so backwards to me. :) | 07:08 |
| gustnado | I figured it would | 07:08 |
| gustnado | I have one laptop that dual boots. The Windows has VMWARE that runs linux, and when I boot Linux, the VMWare runs a WindowsXP | 07:08 |
| gustnado | Unfortunately, I have a number of reasons I need to have Windows as the primary OS on this machine. Otherwise I'd probably have a Mac. | 07:09 |
| gustnado | anyway, it isn't too hard to get stuff working for N810 development, if you download an existing project (I used maemo-mapper) and build it and then hack it. But building something from scratch is a bit harder | 07:10 |
| gustnado | and finding the info is hard, even though Maemo is one of the best documented open source things I've run across | 07:10 |
| halley | Almost all computing is that way now. | 07:10 |
| gustnado | sure is | 07:10 |
| halley | Easy to tweak, hard to build from the ground up. | 07:10 |
| halley | Time to hit the sack here. | 07:10 |
| * halley waves. | 07:10 | |
| gustnado | yeah. I do consulting on itty bitty embedded things | 07:10 |
| gustnado | 8 bit | 07:10 |
| gustnado | assembly lang from scratch | 07:11 |
| gustnado | no confusion or magic | 07:11 |
| gustnado | gnite | 07:11 |
| * halley nods. | 07:11 | |
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| gustnado | okay Europe, time to wake up and answer my questions ;-) | 07:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody else "access denied" http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/ ? | 07:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody want to triage this? | 07:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3499 | 07:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think my head will explode if I try. | 07:21 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles: apparently I am not authorized to view that bug :P | 07:23 |
| rm_you | lol | 07:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 07:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | How the fuck did he file it there? | 07:23 |
| rm_you | what is it? | 07:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Blocker bug for "Cannot download USBcontrol" | 07:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | In Browser Extras for some goddamn reason | 07:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | However the hell he got it there. | 07:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody install it from Extras so I can kick his ass. | 07:25 |
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| Mercury | Is there no release of maemo mapper in diablo yet? | 07:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mercury, gnuite is on a roadtrip. | 07:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unless somebody else wants to package. | 07:32 |
| Mercury | Ah. | 07:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody happen to have a mirror of rx-34 Diablo handy? | 07:33 |
| derf | gnuite is moving across the country. | 07:34 |
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| Callahad | Does the Windows flasher save a copy of the firmwhere anywhere? I could check the VM I used for a copy of it | 07:37 |
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| acydlord | mmm, beer | 08:03 |
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| Callahad | acydlord, :( all I have on hand is "ew, beer" I don't have any "mmm, beer" left | 08:10 |
| acydlord | sad times | 08:10 |
| acydlord | http://twitpic.com/5f7k | 08:11 |
| acydlord | i had one of those | 08:11 |
| acydlord | and i'm working on a "folly pack" from new belgium | 08:11 |
| rm_you| | ah i had that | 08:12 |
| rm_you| | some of those are meh | 08:12 |
| rm_you| | I think I like Mothership | 08:12 |
| rm_you| | <_< | 08:12 |
| acydlord | the mighty arrow is decent for a pale | 08:12 |
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| acydlord | i like 1884, you could drink it as a full coarse meal though | 08:13 |
| acydlord | mothership grew on me, i drank it all last summer | 08:13 |
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| rm_you | Jaffa: ping | 08:42 |
| * koyote looks at his n800 | 08:45 | |
| gustnado | any of u folks use Eclipse? | 08:45 |
| koyote | nope. Stopped doing programming for the most part. and porting. Which sucks since I'm apparently the only person who thinks handhelds should have Real Operating System Environments | 08:46 |
| gustnado | sigh | 08:47 |
| gustnado | I see this work going into an Eclipse for Maemo, but no hint that anyone has actually used it | 08:48 |
| acydlord | eclipse made me want to beat myself with a crowbar | 08:50 |
| gustnado | I use it in Java all the time and it rocks. Even with C it is okay. But haven't figured out how to leverage it in Maemo | 08:51 |
| acydlord | i dont like java based programs | 08:53 |
| gustnado | to each his own. I do lots of assembly and C, but my main job uses Java, and I love it. I've used about 30 assembly languages and 12 higher level languages over the years. Java is one of the best (although Forth is pretty nifty too) | 08:54 |
| acydlord | my main quips with java are that it is usually resource intensive, and has a penchant for being buggy and crashing | 08:55 |
| * rm_you constantly wishes Java would work on the tablets | 08:55 | |
| gustnado | I have rarely run into Java bugs. It is resource intensive, which is why rm_you isn't getting his wish yet | 08:55 |
| rm_you | C is painful in comparison <_< | 08:55 |
| acydlord | i mean java is a godesnd when it works as it is supposed to | 08:55 |
| rm_you | yeah | 08:56 |
| rm_you | very sad | 08:56 |
| acydlord | most of my dealings with java are on a corporate basis though | 08:56 |
| gustnado | Well, we use it at work for lots of stuff, and never have a problem with the language. Now if you use JEE... well, that's mostly a bad idea | 08:56 |
| acydlord | where it seems a company paid a 5 year old to make an app that is essential in day to day operation | 08:56 |
| gustnado | I'd like to get into Ruby more, but don't have the time, and they don't wanna use it at work | 08:56 |
| acydlord | if you can do python and perl you can do ruby | 08:57 |
| gustnado | there are plenty of bad Java programmers out there, since schools turn them out without teaching much real computer science. | 08:57 |
| gustnado | I hate PERL | 08:57 |
| gustnado | Python is okay | 08:57 |
| acydlord | ruby from my experience is pretty much the extensiveness of perl with the stability of python | 08:58 |
| acydlord | i know people that have picked up ruby in a weekend | 08:59 |
| gustnado | well, Ruby is really very different from Perl, other than a few syntactical and philosophical similarities. It's a true OOL, from the bottom up. Perl is a kludge built on a kludge. Perl OO is just a hack | 08:59 |
| gustnado | Yeah, you can pick up the rudiments of Ruby fast | 08:59 |
| gustnado | Same with Perl | 08:59 |
| gustnado | for tablets, I think FORTH would be really good. I once implemented a whole application, including multitasking and data comms, in FORTH on a Z80 in 32K of RAM and 2K of ROM | 09:00 |
| gustnado | but the academics don't like FORTH, so hardly anybody even knows about it | 09:01 |
| koyote | I had a lot of fun on the palm for a while doing pascal, assembly, and a compiled basic | 09:01 |
| gustnado | an interesting mix | 09:01 |
| koyote | You'd laught, but the izibasic onboard compiler generates seriously fast code. | 09:01 |
| acydlord | pascal and assebly, thats taking it back | 09:01 |
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| gustnado | these days, you can generate fast code about almost everything | 09:01 |
| gustnado | hey, acyd, I started with Fortran II | 09:01 |
| gustnado | Java used to be slow until they got the JIT technology working well | 09:02 |
| acydlord | i started with basic, and what was that one on the apple II | 09:03 |
| koyote | gustnado: the izibasic benchmarks better than the compiled C, and naturally any of the byte compiled palm languages | 09:03 |
| gustnado | Apple II was MS basic | 09:03 |
| gustnado | koyote, that is good | 09:03 |
| gustnado | and Apple II was 6502 | 09:03 |
| koyote | guy who does izibasic is REALLY into it. | 09:03 |
| gustnado | I still write code, for money, for the 6800 (embedded variant), in assembly | 09:03 |
| gustnado | sounds like he is | 09:04 |
| koyote | to be completely honest, I never would have kept looking if palm had fixed 3 things. | 09:04 |
| koyote | 1: background network connections 2: the fscking old ass stupid POS web browser 3: the tether requirement | 09:04 |
| koyote | 3 is hackable, but meh. | 09:05 |
| gustnado | what tether requirement? | 09:05 |
| koyote | you "need" a pc type machine to install software. | 09:05 |
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| gustnado | my problem with Palm OS are: 1) not true multitasking OS 2) hasn't improved with time. That being said, my phone is a Treo 700p | 09:05 |
| acydlord | yeah, the palms were never designed well enough to be standalone devices | 09:05 |
| koyote | You have to realize, my introduction to palmtop computing was the tandy PC2. | 09:06 |
| gustnado | The Palms were never intended to be standalone | 09:06 |
| koyote | I've always considered palmtops to be Real Computers | 09:06 |
| acydlord | i've got the centro, and im looking forward to the 800 palm based | 09:06 |
| gustnado | I didn't get the Centro because it doesn't have an antenna connector, and when I'm storm chasing, I need an external amp and antenna | 09:06 |
| koyote | gustnado: Palms could have escaped the need for a tehter long ago. if not the coonvenience | 09:06 |
| acydlord | centro does actually have an antenna connector | 09:07 |
| gustnado | oh, crap | 09:07 |
| acydlord | it's under a rubber panel | 09:07 |
| gustnado | I wish I'd known that | 09:07 |
| Mercury | What's somewhat disturbing, is that Palm's several year old PIM apps are still some of the best around. | 09:07 |
| gustnado | I might have gotten one | 09:07 |
| acydlord | yeah, when i bought mine the rep told me it didnt have irda or the antena port | 09:07 |
| gustnado | Palm's apps are nice. Very lightweight, just the right functionality | 09:07 |
| acydlord | it has both | 09:07 |
| koyote | Mercury: well, they are reasonably mature and featureful. Though not quite as good as the HP PIM suite from the 200LX | 09:07 |
| gustnado | I keep all my personal data in a Palm and access it using the PC desktop | 09:08 |
| acydlord | i have all my contacts and business cards in the palm | 09:08 |
| Mercury | koyote: I've not used those. | 09:08 |
| koyote | What's amusing to ME is that the leeenux people are SO focussed on chrome and bloat that a decent PIM app hasn't materialized outside of emacs | 09:08 |
| acydlord | and i can sync them between centro, pc, and NIT | 09:08 |
| gustnado | I shoulda waited, I guess, until the Centro came out and I could look at it in hand, but I wanted a new phone before my chase vacation | 09:08 |
| koyote | Mercury: it's old tech. really old. a 286 based PDA with CGA graphics and a week of battery life on AA cells. | 09:09 |
| koyote | back in the mid 90s | 09:09 |
| gustnado | I keep my whole life in the thing. I have an encryption program that runs on the PC and the palm for sensitive stuff. I use the calendar, contacts, tasks and memos a whole lot | 09:09 |
| acydlord | the centro has one of the best keyboards on the palms | 09:09 |
| gustnado | I try not to use my palm keyboard much - prefer to put the data in on the PC when I can. But I do miss graphiti | 09:09 |
| gustnado | I wish the converging tablet/phone/PIM world would standardize a bit more - preferably on open platform. | 09:10 |
| koyote | I'm running a nokia E61. I *half* wish I had my treo back, but the web browsing and email app on the nokia actually work, so I make do without a decent programming suite onboard and nonthreaded chats | 09:10 |
| acydlord | i usually used my n810 as a bt kb for my centro | 09:10 |
| acydlord | but my n810 is about to be sent out for repairs :( | 09:10 |
| gustnado | ooh | 09:11 |
| gustnado | not good | 09:11 |
| acydlord | indeed | 09:11 |
| gustnado | I just got my 810 | 09:11 |
| acydlord | touchscreen went out on mine | 09:11 |
| gustnado | I got it for one purpose: a programmable GPS that I could use to avoid the damned photo radar tickets in this stupid little town that I have to go through all the time | 09:11 |
| acydlord | lol | 09:11 |
| gustnado | serious | 09:11 |
| acydlord | the gps isnt the most accurate | 09:11 |
| acydlord | but it is mighty programmable, especially with mapper | 09:12 |
| gustnado | it's accuracy is good enough. Problem is startup time | 09:12 |
| koyote | The 800/810 looked so nice when I was browsing around. But the OS really wastes real estate. And the developer concensus seems to be that the machine is too weak to do what a 486 does. | 09:12 |
| gustnado | My problem now is getting to where I can develop reasonably, without investing too much of my tm | 09:12 |
| gustnado | time | 09:12 |
| acydlord | yeah, the agps helper in diablo helps | 09:12 |
| gustnado | well, of course its weaker than a 486, but hey, it's little and it runs on a battery | 09:12 |
| gustnado | a little battery compared to a laptop | 09:13 |
| koyote | oh, sure. A 486 with 16MB of ram would run rings around MODERN technology | 09:13 |
| gustnado | The ARM is an okay processor though. I've played with Atmel's embedded ARM and it's neat | 09:13 |
| robink | Amtel makes an ARM? | 09:13 |
| gustnado | hey, my wrist-watch has more compute power than the first computer I programmed | 09:13 |
| gustnado | yes, they do - a whole line of them | 09:13 |
| koyote | exactly. | 09:13 |
| acydlord | i wish the amd embedded procs would get more play | 09:13 |
| acydlord | problem with anything amd though is that it's power hungry | 09:14 |
| gustnado | and you can program and debug them in circuit with a $150 USB interface and theirr free iDE | 09:14 |
| koyote | The 8x0 series has more power than the zaurus clamshells, but on those I could have a real X environment and compiler | 09:14 |
| koyote | the nokia is "too weak and time is too contrained" to have... regular stuff. | 09:14 |
| gustnado | well, I've been doing cross compiling for decades, so I don't mind relying on a PC for development | 09:14 |
| Proteous | my first programing was in a RoboWars VM | 09:15 |
| robink | Is having gcc on an N810 a stupid idea? | 09:15 |
| gustnado | I would like to be able to do interactive debug from the PC to a program running on N810, but don't know how | 09:15 |
| koyote | oh, and the "screen is too small"..... as if my main machine was better | 09:15 |
| koyote | robink: I've been told so. | 09:15 |
| acydlord | my n810 usually is my main machine | 09:15 |
| koyote | My desktop is an eee | 09:15 |
| gustnado | I think you'd have to have a really good reason to run gcc on the 810 - put it on a laptop or one of these new really small PC's | 09:15 |
| * robink will probably uninstall gcc and g++ on his n810. | 09:16 | |
| * robink has a scratchbox install on his desktop. | 09:16 | |
| gustnado | My first programming was on an IBM 7094 | 09:16 |
| gustnado | I think robink has the right idea | 09:16 |
| Proteous | I moved from robowars to my HP48G | 09:16 |
| koyote | gustnado: it's an OS, it should have compiler. | 09:16 |
| gustnado | heh | 09:16 |
| koyote | Proteous: I had a love/hate with the HP48 | 09:16 |
| robink | Can you get distcc for the Maemo? | 09:16 |
| gustnado | koyote, if you want that, use FORTH. It's an OS, compiler, assembler, and high level language all in one, and fits in almost no memory | 09:17 |
| robink | s/the\ // | 09:17 |
| koyote | I mean, the programming was good, but the form factor was a bit much and the move from the older programming language to RPL was not good from an end user or educational perspective | 09:17 |
| Proteous | heh | 09:17 |
| Proteous | it was good for programing stuff during math class and on the long bus ride home | 09:18 |
| * robink still has his 48G | 09:18 | |
| koyote | gustnado: dude. emacs is me. In fact, that's the best thing about linux PDAs | 09:18 |
| gustnado | still has his slide rule | 09:18 |
| Proteous | so do I | 09:18 |
| gustnado | emacs, eh... never got into that. VI is my religion | 09:18 |
| koyote | gustnado: you can use a vi in emacs. | 09:18 |
| gustnado | and now, eclipse | 09:18 |
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| koyote | lots of people do. | 09:18 |
| gustnado | oh, well I just use a vi from the shell | 09:18 |
| mulva | hi's | 09:18 |
| gustnado | howdys | 09:19 |
| koyote | The text editor isn't important. It's the lisp machine and capabilities that shine. | 09:19 |
| gustnado | ah | 09:19 |
| gustnado | well, only so many hours in the day to learn all this stuff, and sitll make a living | 09:19 |
| koyote | BBDB, gnus, erc, wiki-mode. | 09:19 |
| gustnado | btw, if u like lisp, you might like FORTH | 09:19 |
| mulva | is there anyway to get rid of the feedback when ever there is an action on the 810' | 09:19 |
| gustnado | and I'll shut up about it now :) | 09:19 |
| mulva | ? | 09:19 |
| koyote | Oh, i've done some forth, though not in a decade. | 09:19 |
| doc|home | I found a practical use for the laser pointer | 09:19 |
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| mulva | there is this annoying hum, noise | 09:19 |
| doc|home | tormenting my dog | 09:19 |
| gustnado | I haven't done it in 25 years now | 09:19 |
| gustnado | laser pointers are good for shocking heads-down workers in their cubes, too | 09:20 |
| gustnado | my 5mw green one does that well | 09:20 |
| doc|home | heh | 09:20 |
| gustnado | hum? | 09:20 |
| koyote | well, i mostly have stopped doing computer work. I'm just eternally pissed that we got robbed by the PC. | 09:20 |
| doc|home | robbed? | 09:21 |
| gustnado | u mean by uSoft? | 09:21 |
| koyote | the whole thing. | 09:21 |
| * doc|home hasn't been robbed by microsoft in 6 years | 09:21 | |
| mulva | yea, like if you plug into the car | 09:21 |
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| koyote | We had really powerful, true Real Computer palmtops for ears | 09:21 |
| gustnado | I love PC's, but these days I work from supercomputers down to the 8 bit embedded | 09:21 |
| mulva | or even headphones | 09:21 |
| mulva | there this blank feeedback | 09:21 |
| koyote | years, even | 09:21 |
| doc|home | koyote: speak for yourself, I had nothing of the sort :/ | 09:21 |
| koyote | we as a civilization | 09:22 |
| gustnado | mulva, that could be electrical noise on your car power | 09:22 |
| doc|home | back later | 09:22 |
| gustnado | does it change frequenty as the engine speed changes? | 09:22 |
| koyote | real data handling could be done. real work could be done. | 09:22 |
| mulva | well, what about headphones then? | 09:22 |
| gustnado | koyote, what palmtops are you talking about? | 09:22 |
| mulva | I'm pretty sure its the 810 | 09:22 |
| gustnado | mulva, do you only get it when plugged into the car? | 09:22 |
| mulva | hasn't anyone been listening with headphones and here the little blank gaps? | 09:23 |
| gustnado | I don't use it for multimedia - I just got it to as a programmable gps | 09:23 |
| mulva | gustnado, headphone as well | 09:23 |
| koyote | gustnado: pc2, pc6, sharp series- 1360 was my favorite. HP75, HP71B, HP41, HP42, even after the DOS revolution you still had things like the HP95LX and HP200LX | 09:23 |
| gustnado | I use my COWAN D2 as a sound machine | 09:23 |
| mulva | or even when I plug it in to the stereo | 09:23 |
| gustnado | koyote, never played with those | 09:23 |
| koyote | Atari even made a DOS palmtop that ran full msd3.x | 09:24 |
| gustnado | wasn't into palm tops back then, and never played with the HP stuff (except HPUX on SMP Unix boxen) | 09:24 |
| gustnado | Atari... there's a name I haven't heard in a while | 09:24 |
| mulva | hmm | 09:24 |
| gustnado | they had the very best PC graphics in the early '80s | 09:24 |
| gustnado | for almost no money | 09:24 |
| mulva | thanks | 09:24 |
| Proteous | mulva, are you talking about skipping? | 09:25 |
| gustnado | mulva, don't fully understand your situation | 09:25 |
| Proteous | me either | 09:25 |
| mulva | yea it's hard to explain | 09:25 |
| koyote | now it's all entertainment. And it takes more time to computerize my knifemaking and sheduling than it does to jot it down in a notebook | 09:25 |
| koyote | hence: robbed | 09:25 |
| mulva | like plug in some headphones and have a listen | 09:25 |
| mulva | there is this whitenoise in the backround as you type | 09:26 |
| gustnado | mulva, I think you are saying that it doesn't matter how you listen to it - stereo, headphone or speakers, you hear something wrong with the audio, right? | 09:26 |
| mulva | or with any actuon | 09:26 |
| Proteous | how high do you have to turn it up to hear it? | 09:26 |
| mulva | 48 | 09:26 |
| Proteous | I didn't know there were numbers | 09:26 |
| Proteous | what audio playback program are you using? | 09:27 |
| mulva | canola | 09:27 |
| mulva | but it's not just that | 09:27 |
| gustnado | All I hear when typing is little clicks - intended feedback | 09:27 |
| mulva | it like everything | 09:27 |
| gustnado | do you only hear it when playing audio | 09:27 |
| gustnado | or even when not playing audio? | 09:27 |
| mulva | okay you hear the clicks right? | 09:27 |
| Proteous | the keyboard does beep when you press the keys | 09:27 |
| gustnado | yes, I do. You should hear the clicks | 09:27 |
| mulva | then if you listen carefully | 09:27 |
| Proteous | well, unless you turn that feature off | 09:28 |
| mulva | there is noise in the backround | 09:28 |
| mulva | and it stay for like a couple of seconds after you've clicked | 09:28 |
| gustnado | not on mine | 09:28 |
| mulva | damn | 09:29 |
| mulva | then it's mine then I guess | 09:29 |
| gustnado | how do u turn the volume up on this thing? | 09:29 |
| mulva | advancelight? | 09:29 |
| gustnado | (u can see I don't normallhy use it for listening) | 09:29 |
| gustnado | ? | 09:29 |
| koyote | I hate summer. It's finally cool enough to work, and it's too late to make loud banging metal on metal type noises | 09:29 |
| mulva | up in the taskbar | 09:30 |
| gustnado | here in Phoenix, it is never cool enough to work in the summer | 09:30 |
| koyote | I never had a problem growing up in scottsdale | 09:30 |
| mulva | koynote, like doing it in armor, eh? :P | 09:31 |
| gustnado | taskbar? | 09:31 |
| koyote | but these days work means a 2000 degree fire. | 09:31 |
| gustnado | ? | 09:31 |
| gustnado | koyote, no one has a problem growing up in it ;-) | 09:31 |
| koyote | mulva: Actually, I wear a kilt. Armor is too scratchy for doing it. | 09:31 |
| gustnado | where on the taskbar | 09:31 |
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| gustnado | koyote, then u know the little town I am complaining about: Paradise Valley | 09:32 |
| koyote | gustnado: One of my buddies has his forge down in tuscon. | 09:32 |
| mulva | koyote, ahhhh easy access :P | 09:32 |
| koyote | Of course, it was 105 today here in "temperate" california | 09:32 |
| gustnado | ah.... that's write... working metal | 09:32 |
| gustnado | write? must be tired. RIGHT | 09:32 |
| mulva | gustnado, sorry the icons on the top left corner | 09:32 |
| koyote | mulva: indeed! kilts and the proper career choice = grillz | 09:32 |
| mulva | girlz? :p | 09:33 |
| koyote | gustnado: I know PV. | 09:33 |
| gustnado | mine has little people in top left. Next down on left is the little blocks - that's probably what u mean | 09:33 |
| mulva | little people | 09:33 |
| koyote | mulva: grillz is g4ngst4l337 for girls. apparently | 09:33 |
| gustnado | koyote, I live in a county island between PV and PHX, and can't drive anywhere without going through PV and by their damned photo radar vans | 09:34 |
| mulva | am in the right room? :p | 09:34 |
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| gustnado | i think so | 09:34 |
| koyote | gustnado: never cared much for PV in general, even back in the 80s | 09:34 |
| gustnado | they have a snooty attitude | 09:35 |
| koyote | always have | 09:35 |
| gustnado | and I've lived here since 86 | 09:35 |
| mulva | koyote is there anything under kilts? | 09:35 |
| gustnado | mulva | 09:35 |
| koyote | mulva: in my case, knives. and boots. | 09:35 |
| mulva | I mean to wear :p | 09:35 |
| gustnado | I turned the volume all the way up (had to run a player)... | 09:35 |
| gustnado | and stil no bad audio | 09:35 |
| mulva | gustnado where do you live? I'll come over and show you's | 09:36 |
| mulva | :p | 09:36 |
| koyote | mulva: I wear bike shorts under when I'm biking | 09:36 |
| gustnado | M - U in AZ? | 09:36 |
| mulva | nevermind, though, thanks for helping! | 09:36 |
| gustnado | sorry | 09:37 |
| mulva | no need to be ! | 09:37 |
| gustnado | am an elec engineer, thought I might be able to help troubleshoot | 09:37 |
| koyote | ah, good. enough distraction here means I've had 3 beers and now I won't try and finish this stupid sheath tonight | 09:37 |
| mulva | I have another question | 09:37 |
| gustnado | and what do you do with those knives? Sell them? or are you into midieval stuff or sumpn | 09:37 |
| gustnado | ? | 09:37 |
| koyote | oh. I'm a bladesmith. | 09:37 |
| mulva | any way to make this OS transparent? | 09:38 |
| gustnado | define "transparent" in this context | 09:38 |
| koyote | I gave up geekery for knifemaking. It makes no financial sense but sure as hell is more fun | 09:38 |
| mulva | so when the windows layer up its transparent, and you can see through them | 09:38 |
| mulva | rather them being solid? | 09:38 |
| gustnado | you could probably do that in an app, I'm guessing, with GTK, but otherwise,don't think so | 09:39 |
| mulva | ah | 09:39 |
| mulva | too bad | 09:39 |
| gustnado | don't take my word as gospel | 09:39 |
| mulva | I don't know why that is not an option | 09:39 |
| gustnado | I'm the guy who doesn't know how to adjust the volume | 09:39 |
| gustnado | without running a player app | 09:39 |
| mulva | cause it makes sense to do so | 09:39 |
| gustnado | well, it's linux. Do u know of linux distros where u can do that without programming? | 09:40 |
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| mulva | I dont know anything about linux, except that penguin | 09:40 |
| gustnado | well, I haven't done graphjics programming on it, so I'm hardly an expert. I do lots of linux work, just not with graphics | 09:41 |
| gustnado | or iif I do graphics, its in Java | 09:41 |
| gustnado | or HTML | 09:41 |
| koyote | transparency would make you emacs frames very confusing | 09:41 |
| koyote | ;) | 09:41 |
| gustnado | transparency could cause all sorts of weirdness | 09:41 |
| gustnado | but selective transparency could be useful | 09:42 |
| gustnado | btw, when u say emacs, you mean THE emacs of long time Unix fame, right? | 09:42 |
| pupnik | i could make an xterm with transparency if you want - for the desktop background | 09:42 |
| gustnado | how would u do that? | 09:42 |
| koyote | gustnado: yesssssssss. That's what I'm ircing in | 09:42 |
| pupnik | grab the background image and draw it in the xterm window | 09:42 |
| gustnado | koyote... ah - okay. I'm IRC'ing in the Maemo SDK Linux running in VMWare on top of XP :-) | 09:43 |
| gustnado | pipnik - got it | 09:43 |
| gustnado | pupnik, u know how to program this beast? | 09:43 |
| koyote | I'm ircing in emacs on ubuntu on an asus eeeeeeeeeeeeeeee | 09:43 |
| mulva | pupnik, make xchat transparent | 09:43 |
| gustnado | an eeeee... cute | 09:43 |
| koyote | it's my big computer | 09:44 |
| koyote | pretty damn big, too. | 09:44 |
| mulva | anyways <- betime | 09:44 |
| mulva | goodnightssssssssss | 09:44 |
| gustnado | not compated to my new Thinkpad, probably, which is still not as big as the Dell laptop it replaced, which isn't nealry as big as my tower that I use only as a server most days | 09:44 |
| gustnado | nights | 09:44 |
| mulva | love you all <3 | 09:44 |
| koyote | I'm still missing the 200Lx form factor | 09:45 |
| mulva | <3<3<3 | 09:45 |
| gustnado | what's that? | 09:45 |
| gustnado | ciao | 09:45 |
| koyote | oh, hilarity. | 09:45 |
| pupnik | gustnado: would be a fair amount of work to figure out how to do that, so i dunno | 09:45 |
| koyote | http://www.koyotemakesstuff.com/knives/77-1.jpg | 09:45 |
| koyote | my son holding the boar hunting knife | 09:45 |
| gustnado | pupnik, oh... that's what I bought it for | 09:45 |
| gustnado | cute kid. Big knife. I'll stick to my Sig Sauer | 09:46 |
| koyote | 200LX is the forever god of handhelds- http://hp200lx.net/ | 09:46 |
| koyote | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_200Lx | 09:46 |
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| koyote | gustnado: meh. rifles are better. | 09:47 |
| gustnado | cute | 09:47 |
| koyote | but you can't win a boar knife hunting contest with anything but a knife | 09:47 |
| gustnado | well, I've got an AK also, and I agree, rifles are beter... I can't hit the broad side of a barn with a pistola | 09:47 |
| gustnado | except for my bluderbuss pistol I have | 09:47 |
| koyote | and this one is an order for a contest. be interesting to see how it goes. | 09:48 |
| gustnado | hey, you could bring your boar knife up hear and take out some of these Javalena that eat the landscaping | 09:48 |
| gustnado | ah | 09:48 |
| koyote | I have a czech "target" rifle in 308, 44. lever, mossberg pump. all good. | 09:48 |
| gustnado | ah... serious tuff | 09:48 |
| gustnado | stuff | 09:49 |
| koyote | I can hit a target in general at 15 yards with a pistol. But I can ring the gong at the range out in phoenix with that 308 :) | 09:49 |
| gustnado | I just got the AK as sort of memorabilia | 09:49 |
| pupnik | nice knives koyote | 09:49 |
| koyote | not from here, but when I'm in AZ. | 09:49 |
| koyote | pupnik: the directory lists for browsing. | 09:49 |
| koyote | still kind of a new site. | 09:50 |
| gustnado | A friend has a Belgian NATO something, and I was using it with a red-dot sight and hit the gong out at Usery (315 yards) first 6 shots. | 09:50 |
| koyote | but thanks. I've been having a good run making them | 09:50 |
| acydlord | which range in phx? | 09:50 |
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| gustnado | acy - the only gong I know of is at User Pass (Mesa) | 09:51 |
| acydlord | i used to go out to usery every sunday | 09:51 |
| gustnado | good grief, is this an AZ chat room? ;-) | 09:52 |
| acydlord | we'd take a barret m209 out there | 09:52 |
| koyote | acydlord: um. the one out by cave creek. I honestly seriously just gre up going to it. | 09:52 |
| koyote | um... | 09:53 |
| gustnado | what caliber is the m209 | 09:53 |
| koyote | avery? | 09:53 |
| gustnado | koyote - ben avery? | 09:53 |
| koyote | yah | 09:53 |
| acydlord | yeah, thats ben avery | 09:53 |
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| gustnado | Carefree Highway and I17 | 09:53 |
| gustnado | When I was last at Usery, a biker next to us was blasting away with a Barret .50 - what a cannon | 09:53 |
| koyote | I haven't been in a while. since I live several hundred miles away | 09:53 |
| gustnado | they wouldn't let him shoot at the metal target because it would blow it away | 09:54 |
| acydlord | it's a 50 | 09:54 |
| gustnado | big critter, then | 09:54 |
| acydlord | yeah, they dont let much above a 357 shoot at the pistol range | 09:54 |
| gustnado | I'm talking about the rifle rane | 09:55 |
| gustnado | range | 09:55 |
| gustnado | I work near SDL gun club, which has a nice indoor range | 09:55 |
| gustnado | I should use it more | 09:55 |
| acydlord | scotts gun club is nice | 09:55 |
| gustnado | yep | 09:55 |
| acydlord | i used to go there alot with my old m16 when i had a membership | 09:55 |
| gustnado | m16 - a noble weapon | 09:56 |
| acydlord | indeed | 09:56 |
| gustnado | when I was in the service, the smallest thing we could fire was 70mm | 09:56 |
| acydlord | i'm probably going to buy a 22 rifle and mod it for a target weapin though | 09:56 |
| gustnado | I've still got a .22 from when I was a kid | 09:57 |
| gustnado | never use it though. Also have this wicked deadly .22 pellet rifle | 09:57 |
| gustnado | used to hunt rabbits with it | 09:57 |
| acydlord | 22s are nice for targer shooting, you can buy a metric ton of rounds for $20 | 09:58 |
| gustnado | exactly | 09:58 |
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| gustnado | ak rounds are cheap too, but an AK is hardly an interesting target weapon | 09:58 |
| acydlord | i'm probably gonna buy a 10-22 and throw an ar-22 mod or a bullpup stock on it | 09:58 |
| gustnado | and SDL gun club won't let u use the cheap chinese ammo cause it too often has steel in it | 09:59 |
| gustnado | ah | 09:59 |
| acydlord | yeah | 09:59 |
| acydlord | i accidentally took some HEI rounds for my 45 in there once | 09:59 |
| acydlord | they were none too happy | 09:59 |
| gustnado | err... where did u get those? When I was a kid I used to make them, but aren't they class III? | 10:00 |
| acydlord | i have a class 2 license | 10:01 |
| gustnado | ah | 10:01 |
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| gustnado | well, I gotta get to bed | 10:02 |
| koyote | getting late, yah | 10:02 |
| acydlord | i'm going there after this beerm have a good night | 10:02 |
| gustnado | maybe when I get up some Europeans will be about who can help me with my programming setup questions | 10:02 |
| gustnado | you too.... cheers | 10:02 |
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| Addison | Greetings and salutations gentlemen! | 10:14 |
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| Addison | I'm here to kick some ass and find the .deb file for libglade2-0 (1:2.6.1) and I'm all out of ass. *lol* | 10:16 |
| pupnik | GF leave ya? | 10:17 |
| Addison | ArnimS!!!! I thought you feel off the face of the earth! | 10:18 |
| Addison | fell = feel. | 10:18 |
| Addison | Holy crap. This is a blast from the past. How are you Arnim? | 10:18 |
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| pupnik | yeah oh well ... alive | 10:21 |
| pupnik | i had a libglade of some form Addison but no dev box running here | 10:21 |
| pupnik | http://www.google.com/search?q=libglade+maemo | 10:22 |
| Addison | Sorry to hear about your family troubles way back when. Are things finally resolving for you in your life? | 10:22 |
| Addison | Yeah, I rifled the whole internet for 3 hours and came up with squadoosh. I hate asking for a favor without at least trying on my own but I'm really stuck on this one. | 10:23 |
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| Addison | All I can get online is libglade (1.4.2.0) or something similar. Nothing that's up to date, even using the extra repos and junk. | 10:23 |
| Addison | I wish Qwerty12 was online right now. I'd really like to ask that twat waffle were he found it. *lol* | 10:30 |
| Addison | So what's been up with you Arnim? Anything exciting as of late? | 10:31 |
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| Addison | Hey, real quick. How can I open up an application from Xterm and have it in full screen mode? I've tried "putty -fullscreen" but that doesn't do poopsquat. | 10:36 |
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| acydlord | no idear, everything i open that goes fullscren via term has the flag in the config somewhere | 10:48 |
| acydlord | i'd check, but my n810 is dead | 10:48 |
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| Addison | But do you know the command line acydlord? | 10:50 |
| Addison | Isn't it "putty -fullscreen" or "putty -fc" or something like that or am I just confused on this. | 10:50 |
| acydlord | something like that | 10:50 |
| Addison | Well, I've tried those and they don't work, was hoping for an Xterm guru here. :) | 10:51 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:09 |
| Addison | Well, apparently everyone is either passed out or drunk here on a late Friday night. | 11:09 |
| Addison | It was really nice almost talking to everyone. *lol* | 11:09 |
| Addison | Have a good one guys! | 11:09 |
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| GNUton | Jaffa: 'morning! | 11:14 |
| Jaffa | GNUton: interesting article on p.m.o | 11:14 |
| * Jaffa cinemas. BBL. | 11:14 | |
| GNUton | Jaffa: thank you ;) | 11:14 |
| mikkov_ | GNUton: simutrans is there for you to try :) | 11:15 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 11:20 |
| GNUton | mikkov_: Great! thank you mikkov_! | 11:21 |
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| RST38h | lcuk | 11:27 |
| lcuk | RST38h, | 11:27 |
| RST38h | Weird: two more us banks belly up, nothing on google news | 11:28 |
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| fluentis | good morning | 11:28 |
| fluentis | can somebody help me complete deleting gpe-calender | 11:29 |
| RST38h | fluentis: mkfs? | 11:30 |
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| fluentis | with all the configuration files? something went wrong and i can't start it after the installation | 11:31 |
| mikkov_ | is the some .gpe directory? | 11:31 |
| RST38h | well, remove package using app manager | 11:31 |
| RST38h | then look in ~user for data dir and remove it too | 11:32 |
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| fluentis | RST38h, already done, but something still remains i suppose - i'm trying again, right now | 11:40 |
| fluentis | mikkov_, no more ) | 11:40 |
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| fluentis | btw, the applets, like gpe-summary... where are they stored? | 11:46 |
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| fluentis | because, there is no more sync button on the gpesummary... i think, maybe it's also a config file somewhere... | 11:53 |
| mikkov_ | gpe could also use gconf | 11:58 |
| mikkov_ | check with gconf-tool | 11:58 |
| fluentis | ok | 11:58 |
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| Cptnodegard | speaking of gpe summary, is it a way to change colors so its white on black and not other way around? | 12:13 |
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| fluentis | hm, it was not the sync button. it was the refresh button in gpesummary which is now gone... anyby knows how to get him back? | 12:17 |
| fluentis | where are the applets stored? and their conf files | 12:17 |
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| Cptnodegard | are there anyone alive to helpme with a problem? | 12:25 |
| Cptnodegard | im |-| close to throwing my n800 out the window | 12:26 |
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| Stskeeps | Cptnodegard: i'm around, but may only be able to help if i know what the issue is :) | 12:26 |
| Cptnodegard | osso backup freezes with me | 12:26 |
| Cptnodegard | after searching ITT i found that claws is causing it | 12:26 |
| Cptnodegard | there was a solution involving xterm and whatnot but im not a linux guy and have tried to stay away from that stuff, so i just uninstalled it | 12:27 |
| Cptnodegard | which didnt work | 12:27 |
| Cptnodegard | because apparently it leaves some shit behind or something | 12:27 |
| Cptnodegard | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16627 | 12:27 |
| Cptnodegard | "Are you using Claws and are you confortable with xterm and becomeroot? | 12:27 |
| Cptnodegard | If no please ignore the rest.. | 12:27 |
| Cptnodegard | If yes could you do the following? | 12:27 |
| Cptnodegard | " | 12:27 |
| Cptnodegard | no im not comfortable with those xd | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | do you have the becomeroot or rootsh thing installed? | 12:28 |
| Cptnodegard | no | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | and those are comfortable commands, nothing dangerous in them :P | 12:29 |
| Cptnodegard | dont even know what they are | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | alright, it's stuff that gives you full access to your tablet | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | to fix issues like this | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | in Application Manager, install the program from Maemo extras, called 'rootsh' | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | (i assume you know how to enable maemo extras?) | 12:30 |
| Cptnodegard | yeah not that dense | 12:30 |
| Cptnodegard | close, but not that much :) | 12:30 |
| Cptnodegard | installed | 12:30 |
| Stskeeps | okay, open your X Terminal application under 'Utilities' | 12:31 |
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| Stskeeps | type 'sudo gainroot' without the 's | 12:31 |
| Cptnodegard | cant i just delete the claws folder with ssh? | 12:31 |
| Cptnodegard | asi see theres still such a folder there after the uninstall | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | you can try i guess, it shouldn't be harmful | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just wondering if the claws-mail.conf file in osso-backup is still there though | 12:32 |
| Cptnodegard | meh ill do the xterm thing. guess that still works after i uninstalled claws because its telling osso backup to ignore claws (?) | 12:33 |
| Cptnodegard | xterm open | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it moves claws out of the way of the eye of osso backup | 12:33 |
| Cptnodegard | just do the lines in that foru m thread in xterm? | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | yes, the first box | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | if you get any errors, do tell me | 12:34 |
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| Cptnodegard | woo it worked :D thanks a bunch | 12:36 |
| Cptnodegard | now all i need is a newsletter tellingme when diablo is stable xD | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | heh, i haven't upgraded to diablo yet, i'm just focusing on making a good Debian :P | 12:37 |
| Cptnodegard | i didnt upgrade because nothing seems to work on it and my backup didnt work | 12:37 |
| Cptnodegard | how much does backup backup anyways? | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | no clue.. i don't use it | 12:37 |
| Cptnodegard | meaning what will happeen if i install diablo and select restore? | 12:37 |
| Cptnodegard | ah | 12:37 |
| Veggen | I had no problems with restore (that I know of) | 12:38 |
| Cptnodegard | yeah but what exactly does it restore? does it automatically start istalling your old apps and such? | 12:38 |
| Cptnodegard | because i have no clue what apps i have installed | 12:38 |
| Veggen | yes. well, you can choose. | 12:38 |
| Veggen | and it likely won't be able to install all :) | 12:39 |
| Cptnodegard | lol i know, hence my other reason not to upgrade | 12:39 |
| Cptnodegard | the way i figure it my tablet isnt broken so i dont have any reason to fix it | 12:39 |
| Cptnodegard | slash upgrade | 12:39 |
| Cptnodegard | another Q... i installed diskusage. it shows 100% on /dev/root. wtf does that mean? | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | not 100% sure, but remember there's a initial filesystem mounted when the tablet boots | 12:41 |
| Stskeeps | and that's full | 12:41 |
| Cptnodegard | ah | 12:41 |
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| disq | mplayer (or even xmms with flac.so installed) skips some flacs after a couple secs playtime. ideas? | 12:54 |
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| BULLE | is there some general ipsec support for tablets around ? so i can use it with a normal racoon/strongswan server ? all i have found so far is vpnc that seems to do some sort of ipsec, but in a cisco specific way | 13:34 |
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| fluentis | so, i got the solution... the problem with gpesummary was caused by an update. you know, i forgot the extra-dev testing rep. stupid, isn't it? )) | 14:01 |
| CptLaptop | i repeat my q from earlier, anyone know how to change colors of gpe summary? | 14:01 |
| lcuk | CptLaptop, dunno i dont use the gpe stuff, have you read the docs? | 14:02 |
| CptLaptop | the what? | 14:02 |
| lcuk | manual | 14:02 |
| BULLE | documentation | 14:03 |
| lcuk | instructions | 14:03 |
| fluentis | rtfm? ) | 14:03 |
| lcuk | stone tablet | 14:03 |
| CptLaptop | where are those? | 14:03 |
| CptLaptop | i dont expect there to be a normal fix though, there never is with these apps | 14:03 |
| lcuk | i think they are somewhere on google | 14:03 |
| lcuk | well gpe is quite a well used framework, i would expect lots of similar questions have been asked | 14:03 |
| CptLaptop | yeah but i doubt its skinable beyond the maemo themes | 14:05 |
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| Jaffa | rm_you: pong | 14:24 |
| rm_you | Jaffa: hey | 14:24 |
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| rm_you | what are you doing at the summit aboiut mediaserv/tablet-encode? | 14:24 |
| rm_you | you doing a demo or anything? | 14:24 |
| rm_you | I could run one if you' | 14:24 |
| rm_you | you aren't | 14:24 |
| Jaffa | There's a lightning session and was planning to show both. Now it's only 5 mins and will be whistlestop at best | 14:25 |
| rm_you | i was thinking about demoing the video capabilities of the tablet | 14:25 |
| rm_you | and i figured why not show the entire pipeline | 14:25 |
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| rm_you | what do you think? | 14:25 |
| Jaffa | Sounds good | 14:25 |
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| rm_you | k, i'll post something on the wiki page | 14:26 |
| rm_you | X-Fade: was it you last time that figured out why i couldnt log into the wiki with my normal login info? | 14:28 |
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| rm_you | Jaffa: ah yeah I see that you did have a lightning on tablet-encode | 14:29 |
| rm_you | yeah 5 minutes isn't long enough to do ANYTHING | 14:30 |
| rm_you | wtf did they do that for | 14:30 |
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| Jaffa | rm_you: to get more in. could do it as an entry point into your later session | 14:32 |
| rm_you | Jaffa: I was thinking just a longer exhibit sort of thing | 14:32 |
| rm_you | more like, people wander by and see tablets playing video with mediaserv, and a laptop with tablet-encode running | 14:33 |
| rm_you | just showing off how well video playback works and how cool the streaming stuff is :P | 14:33 |
| Binky | I hate to covert videos, guys. I don't know why, they always appear unsyncronizated | 14:34 |
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| rm_you | wtf do I not have a user page on this wiki? >_> | 14:36 |
| rm_you | X-Fade: ping | 14:36 |
| zap | Anybody knows a way to install filemanager in scratchbox? I need to test integration with it. | 14:37 |
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| rm_you | so, when are people arriving, in general? | 14:41 |
| rm_you | what days should I be setting for my arrival/departure dates (from the US, so flights are like 16 hours average) | 14:41 |
| lcuk | jaffa, :) i got vala working on my tablet, and blafasel has been looking at making a vala binding for liqbase :) | 14:43 |
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| lcuk | rm, im hoping to get there as early as possible on the thursday | 14:48 |
| rm_you | ah | 14:48 |
| rm_you | I think I am going to try to be there starting before OSiM | 14:48 |
| lcuk | but i cant make any plans | 14:48 |
| rm_you | i figure if i am flying 16 hours to germany I may as well be there for at least most of a week | 14:49 |
| lcuk | agreed totally | 14:49 |
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| rm_you | especially if jott lets me sleep on his couch :P | 14:49 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, morning, have you heard anything yet? | 14:49 |
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| lcuk | rm_you, you are staying with jott then? :D | 14:52 |
| rm_you | we'll see | 14:52 |
| rm_you | he had to talk it over with his GF ^_^ | 14:53 |
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| lcuk | lol heh | 14:53 |
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| rm_you | hrm, Berlin WelcomeCard, eh? | 14:53 |
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| rm_you | i wonder how much i would need to use transportation | 14:53 |
| rm_you | Probably not too much? | 14:53 |
| lcuk | from experience, its the best way to get around | 14:53 |
| lcuk | the trains are regular and theres lots | 14:54 |
| rm_you | yeah, we'll see... | 14:54 |
| rm_you | if I end up at a hostel, there are some very close to the hotel, I am ok with a 10 minute walk or so | 14:54 |
| lcuk | its a big city - granted a lot of action will be near the hotels etc, but if you are staying outside the centre it may be worthwhile | 14:54 |
| rm_you | err very close to c-base | 14:54 |
| rm_you | yeah, i assume if i go places with maemo peepz it will be via public transport :P | 14:55 |
| lcuk | it will be anyway, i dont think anyone is takign a car | 14:55 |
| florian | hi all | 14:55 |
| lcuk | mornin florian \o | 14:55 |
| rm_you | i wonder if I should plan to leave monday to arrive tuesday in berlin <_< | 14:56 |
| rm_you | probably | 14:56 |
| florian | hmm... c-base would be crowded if everyone i here came to Maemo Summit ;) | 14:56 |
| lcuk | we have handheld device - standing room wont be a problem ;) | 14:56 |
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| florian | heh | 14:56 |
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| lcuk | are you keeping yourself busy then florian | 14:57 |
| florian | lcuk: sure, like always... but today have a | 14:59 |
| florian | # | 14:59 |
| florian | oops | 14:59 |
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| rm_you | yeah will prolly leave Monday in the afternoon sometime, would get me into berlin in the morning of that tuesday | 14:59 |
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| lcuk | florian, i have # oops days a lot :D | 15:00 |
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| florian | ... i have non-technical things to do: cutting grass in the garden, renovations and playing with the kids | 15:00 |
| lcuk | the most important things in the world. do your kids play with your gpe stuff - i use mine as testers, if they manage to break stuff i know to fix it | 15:01 |
| * florian types with one hand, the other is occupied with the baby | 15:01 | |
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| florian | lcuk: not yet... Jonas is two years and Jana thre months old, so most applications ate not that interesting for them :) | 15:05 |
| lcuk | awww gpe-nursery and gpe-bottletime would be a good starter apps ;) | 15:07 |
| crashanddie | gpe-FEEDME | 15:12 |
| crashanddie | Babies are so selfish | 15:12 |
| lcuk | didnt know you were still a baby :P | 15:12 |
| crashanddie | it's always "me me me, change me, feed me, me me me !" | 15:12 |
| crashanddie | The day I'll have kids | 15:13 |
| crashanddie | I'll just leave the Earth | 15:13 |
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| crashanddie | I'll go see my man GeneralAntilles, whereever he is | 15:13 |
| crashanddie | when I'll come back, they'll be 30, good time to get to know my kids | 15:13 |
| florian | ah kids are fun... epecially the time they are learning to speak is fun :) | 15:14 |
| crashanddie | my kids are gonna suffer | 15:14 |
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| lcuk | yes, mine got in trouble for swearing at a teacher :S :D | 15:14 |
| crashanddie | 3 languages to learn :D | 15:14 |
| rm_you | I remember getting in trouble for telling my computer teacher to go f*ck herself | 15:15 |
| rm_you | In like 5th grade | 15:15 |
| lcuk | when then, last week? | 15:15 |
| rm_you | lol | 15:15 |
| crashanddie | no, school's out for more than month | 15:15 |
| crashanddie | it was when he was young | 15:15 |
| crashanddie | so long ago | 15:15 |
| crashanddie | about 3 months | 15:15 |
| rm_you | haha | 15:15 |
| crashanddie | lcuk tried to insult his teachers when he was young | 15:16 |
| crashanddie | but because he's a northerner, the teachers couldn't understand him | 15:16 |
| * florian trew eggs at them ;) | 15:16 | |
| crashanddie | so they just gave a B for effort "must try harder" | 15:16 |
| rm_you | crashanddie: go play with your 0000014122996 :P | 15:16 |
| crashanddie | rm_you, that's not a prime | 15:17 |
| rm_you | crashanddie: i wonder what it *is* then? hmmm... guess you will figure it out eventually :P | 15:17 |
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| crashanddie | rm_you, it's a non-prime number :) | 15:18 |
| crashanddie | rm_you, how old are you ? | 15:18 |
| rm_you | 21 | 15:18 |
| crashanddie | hmm | 15:18 |
| lcuk | lolol | 15:18 |
| rm_you | lol | 15:18 |
| lcuk | rm_you, thats the fleshlight thing | 15:18 |
| rm_you | lcuk: yes :P | 15:19 |
| crashanddie | fleshlight ? | 15:19 |
| rm_you | lcuk: was gonna let him figure it out :P | 15:19 |
| rm_you | crashanddie: check a UPC database :P | 15:19 |
| crashanddie | OOHH | 15:19 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, the UPC database is full of random amazing things which im shocked are products | 15:19 |
| crashanddie | OMG | 15:19 |
| crashanddie | AH | 15:20 |
| rm_you | crashanddie: be sure to do a google image search for it | 15:20 |
| crashanddie | AAAARRRRGHHHHH | 15:20 |
| rm_you | lol | 15:20 |
| crashanddie | what I'd like to know | 15:24 |
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| crashanddie | is how come you know that number off the top of your head ? | 15:24 |
| crashanddie | or maybe off the top of something else | 15:25 |
| crashanddie | well, bottom, really | 15:25 |
| rm_you | lol | 15:26 |
| rm_you | I asked lcuk the same thing about 0031901925482 :P | 15:27 |
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| rm_you | well ima try to get a few more hours of sleep before i have a lunch appointment tomorrow | 15:28 |
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| rm_you | so, peace out :) | 15:29 |
| t_s_o | funny, the tablet decieds that the battery is near empty. then i just leave it alone, and now it shows a full battery again :S | 15:29 |
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| zap | How I can launch an application via d-bus from command-line? | 15:34 |
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| crashanddie | zap, with dbus-send most probably | 15:42 |
| zap | I can do dbus-launch myprog, but I want to launch it by interface name, something like dbus-launch org.maemo.myprog | 15:42 |
| zap | because for some reason it does not start from the menu, but starts fine from command line | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | something like this, I guess | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | dbus-send --system --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_browser \ | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | --print-reply /com/nokia/osso_browser/request \ | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | com.nokia.osso_browser.load_url string:"$1" | 15:43 |
| crashanddie | check the man pages for more info | 15:43 |
| zap | thank you for the initial kick :) | 15:43 |
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| crashanddie | zap, one of my current sideprojects is to transfer a file/launch it to the NIT from my desktop/laptop | 15:45 |
| crashanddie | zap, like, right click on a file, and select "send to NIT" | 15:45 |
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| zap | via what? | 15:47 |
| crashanddie | zap, I use osso to open a file based on its MIME extension through DBUS, if you want, I can share the results of my work | 15:47 |
| crashanddie | zap, I wrote a small daemon which accepts a link/url and opens it | 15:47 |
| zap | thank you, for now I don't know what to do with it :) | 15:47 |
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| lcuk | zap - its gonna be a wicked simple thing | 15:48 |
| lcuk | you are using your desktop now - being able to download a deb or a binary and sending it direct to your NIT without messing | 15:49 |
| * lcuk thinkgs crashanddie's idea is great | 15:49 | |
| crashanddie | lcuk, feature request, enable the liqbase editor to be launched from DBUS so that I could send a source file real quick :P | 15:49 |
| crashanddie | well, it already works :) | 15:50 |
| crashanddie | I have a command line client, dunno if it compiles under windows | 15:50 |
| crashanddie | anyway | 15:50 |
| crashanddie | back to work | 15:50 |
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| Cptnodegard | isnt there a wiki page on what apps dont work well in diablo yet? when i goto mameo.org and wiki i get a blank page | 15:51 |
| crashanddie | refresh | 15:51 |
| lcuk | refresh a couple of times | 15:51 |
| Cptnodegard | :) | 15:52 |
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| Cptnodegard | now if i could just find that list xD | 15:53 |
| Cptnodegard | there we go | 15:53 |
| florian | bbl | 15:54 |
| lcuk | crashanddie, does every application need to register itself in DBUS, and does it need app changes and a daemon or once registered for a MIME type it will call the registered binary with params? | 15:54 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, second, I think, no clue, really | 15:55 |
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| lorelei_ | Cptnodegard: mind sharing the link? (if you found the list) | 15:55 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: cool stuff (on vala) | 15:58 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: put some notes on using it from the tablet in the wiki page? | 15:59 |
| lcuk | i compiled a total of 2 programs (hello world and the cairo demo) | 16:00 |
| lcuk | its unfortunately too slow for me to do more with for now | 16:00 |
| lcuk | but that may change | 16:00 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, it's faster than C++ but not as fast as native C it seems due to the garbage collection/ref counting overhead | 16:01 |
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| lcuk | if the bindings for liqbase work then it becomes possible to use more | 16:01 |
| lcuk | actually its slower than c++ | 16:01 |
| lcuk | maybe end code is faster, but compilation is slower | 16:01 |
| Jaffa | ah, perhaps. | 16:02 |
| lcuk | its a seriously interesting project though and im gonna keep hacking away at it | 16:02 |
| lcuk | im thinking of a possible scenario for all this kind of compilation where i use a webservice for building | 16:02 |
| Jaffa | that could be cool | 16:02 |
| lcuk | like your autobuilder but on a private server | 16:02 |
| lcuk | sync or svn or git the changes up, build the modified elements and send me the binary | 16:03 |
| Jaffa | You could approach it as a CI (continuous integration) and use svn as your backend. Every commit gets rebuilt and you can download the binary a few seconds later | 16:03 |
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| lcuk | yes, like now i only build the couple of modules that have changed on a normal make | 16:04 |
| lcuk | after gaining the freedom to compile on the go, im loathed to give it up | 16:04 |
| lcuk | obviously better hardware would negate the slowness but im thinking with whats around now. either that or i can just stick with native fast c for now | 16:05 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: what you suggest sounds pretty wasteful | 16:09 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: what do you mean? | 16:22 |
| sp3000 | Jaffa: useful if you have testers with time for regression bisecting but no build env | 16:22 |
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| Jaffa | Useful for all manner of reasons. For example, your unit tests get run as part of the build, and if any fail the build is marked as a failure and notification sent to the committer + anyone else relevant. | 16:23 |
| sp3000 | a random example of another approach is http://wiki.mozilla.org/Build:TryServer | 16:24 |
| sp3000 | or, "how to run tests on a bunch of platforms, too" | 16:25 |
| Jaffa | Interesting | 16:25 |
| sp3000 | and, say, http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/thunderbird/tinderbox-builds/comm-central-linux/ for the other one | 16:28 |
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| * sp3000 isn't up to speed on the hg migration quite enough to find which vcs browser ui links to those builds | 16:29 | |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: I mean that a trivial change to a header file may cause the complete project recompilation when committrd | 16:46 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: and THEN you are forced to download 100-800k executable back from svn | 16:47 |
| RST38h | and there may be multiple developers using the same server too | 16:47 |
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| RST38h | So your development cycle becomes longer than if you were compiling directly on the tablet | 16:48 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: binaries shouldn't be committed to subversion | 16:50 |
| RST38h | and MUCH longer than compiling on a pc connected to tablet via wifi or bt | 16:50 |
| * Jaffa was talking about general CI. | 16:50 | |
| RST38h | what is CI? | 16:50 |
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| Jaffa | http://martinfowler.com/articles/continuousIntegration.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuous_Integration | 16:54 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, there will be a breakeven point between local compilation and uploading modified source and downloading the completely binary. currently even simple basic applications in vala take > 45 seconds to compile in vala on the device. any improvement on that is great news for me. same principle applies for most other slower languages, but with different breakeven poitns | 16:56 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: sorry, I am on a phone | 17:12 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: cant even copy url into the berowser | 17:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: guess so | 17:12 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: basically it's an approach increasing numbers of software development teams are using to ensure the build never breaks. | 17:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: but then, you may be better off developing on a remote machine and doing scp to the tablet when needed | 17:13 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I am not a huge fan of never-breaking-builds | 17:13 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I think sacrificing everything else to this goal ultimately prevents any development from happening | 17:14 |
| Jaffa | "Everything else" isn't sacrificed though. And the definition of "broken" includes failing unit tests where a developer may not have realised there was an impact (particularly in edge-cases). Similarly, it usually doesn't happen on branches, but on the trunk. | 17:16 |
| * Jaffa shrugs - works for our company. Each to their own. | 17:16 | |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Our unit tests at work run for 8+ hours | 17:16 |
| Jaffa | Then nightly or weekly automated tests ;-) | 17:17 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: do you suggest we run them every time a function name is changed or comment added? | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | No, of course not if they take 8 hours. | 17:19 |
| * Jaffa didn't suggest this was a) mandatory or b) a panacea. Just another tool. | 17:20 | |
| RST38h | yes, but you initially suggested full compile and test cycle for every commit | 17:20 |
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| RST38h | and no local compilation | 17:20 |
| Jaffa | And for some people full compile & test cycle on every commit is possible. | 17:21 |
| RST38h | for some - yes | 17:21 |
| * Jaffa didn't say no local compilation, either. lcuk was looking for off-site compilation; I suggested a CI-like approach. | 17:21 | |
| RST38h | ah | 17:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: remote linux machine + shell account + scp at the end of your default makefile target | 17:22 |
| RST38h | vi, pico, or emacs for editing of course | 17:23 |
| RST38h | you may also run x11 apps using n8x0 as an x11 terminal, but it is kinda masochistic | 17:24 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, problem there is i want the source and binary to be actual local files and able to run and operate locally without a network: i just need a faster compilation method as jaffa pointed out | 17:28 |
| t_s_o | why is it that people keep wanting to turn the tablet into a phone? | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | http://trac.tspre.org/svn/nit-debian/dependancies/parted.deb <- GNU Parted 0.3.8 for maemo (dep: libreadline5, ncurses-base and libncurses5), if anyone is interested :P | 17:30 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I am pretty sure there should be a virtual ftp fs that you can use for that | 17:30 |
| RST38h | or nfs | 17:30 |
| RST38h | although it will inevitably be slower | 17:31 |
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| RST38h | maybe just write to scripts: tablet2remote and remote2tablet that sync local and remote dirs? | 17:32 |
| zap | ughm... what means the "top_application" popup which appears when I launch my application? | 17:32 |
| RST38h | you created your top widget as a popup? | 17:33 |
| RST38h | with top/application as text? | 17:33 |
| zap | no, as a HildonWindow | 17:33 |
| RST38h | what is attached under it? | 17:34 |
| zap | it's the main app window, with a toolbar and a menu | 17:34 |
| zap | I don't have a "top_application" string anywhere in my program, it's hildon who pops it up | 17:34 |
| RST38h | weird | 17:35 |
| RST38h | may it be a default widget attached to hildonwindow? | 17:35 |
| zap | looks like its libhildonwm.so | 17:35 |
| zap | It does not appear if I start my app from command line | 17:36 |
| zap | only if I start it via the menu | 17:36 |
| RST38h | wait | 17:36 |
| RST38h | you are starting it as a dbus service? | 17:36 |
| RST38h | right? | 17:36 |
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| zap | Um, I'm not too common with dbus yet | 17:37 |
| zap | I have X-Osso-Service=org.maemo.blah in my .desktop file | 17:38 |
| RST38h | but you do have dbus initialization code, .service file, etc? | 17:38 |
| zap | yes | 17:38 |
| RST38h | all right | 17:38 |
| RST38h | the popup you see is a notification from wm starting your program | 17:38 |
| RST38h | it should really have your app name there, but somehow you did not set the app name properly | 17:39 |
| zap | hmm | 17:39 |
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| zap | no | 17:40 |
| zap | I first see a popup with my app name | 17:40 |
| zap | and then another popup appears | 17:40 |
| RST38h | umgh | 17:40 |
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| RST38h | weird x2 | 17:40 |
| zap | indeed | 17:40 |
| zap | I'll look into libhildonwm0 now, I found top_application in the binary .so | 17:40 |
| RST38h | (phone battery will run out any moment now) | 17:40 |
| t_s_o | ugh, why do i even bother to read that N900 thread any more, let alone answer it? | 17:41 |
| RST38h | tso: acquired taste? | 17:41 |
| RST38h | watching fanboys salivate over what would be? | 17:41 |
| RST38h | btw, some "technology analyst" company predicted android and symbian merging! :) | 17:42 |
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| pupnik | w...t...f | 17:43 |
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| RST38h | must be some really good mushrooms | 17:44 |
| t_s_o | heh | 17:45 |
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| t_s_o | im more worried about the andoird leadership, but thats me... | 17:45 |
| t_s_o | i just dont trust anyone that have worked for apple to have openness as their primary motivation... | 17:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | tablets-dev.nokia.com is so broken | 17:55 |
| koyote | oh, balls. Lots of OSS developers and even projects have come out of companies people would "never trust" | 17:55 |
| koyote | I worked for Apple, there's a lot of support for openness. | 17:56 |
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| koyote | Aside from the community support, the internal support, there's also a recognition in the company that OSS has had a positive bottom line effect on the company | 17:57 |
| koyote | What pisses people off is that Apple sees no reason to get religious about it. | 17:57 |
| zap | its not really about religion but rather about deeds | 17:58 |
| zap | fact is, apple platforms are pretty closed | 17:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not any more closed than Nokia's. | 18:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | and stuff like WebKit speaks pretty well. | 18:00 |
| zap | actually it's more, because Maemo is gtk-based | 18:01 |
| zap | so you have like, say, 80% of the system open-sourced | 18:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | erm | 18:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | The platform stuff is mostly-ish open | 18:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | everything on top is closed. | 18:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pretty much just like Apple. | 18:02 |
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| zap | is the widget toolkit open on macs? | 18:03 |
| zap | the analogues of hal, dbus, glib, gtk, hildon? | 18:03 |
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| zap | as far as I understand only the Mach microkernel is open, and GPL stuff compiled for macs, and things like CUPS - opensource projects acquired by apple | 18:04 |
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| Veggen | agreed. Imho, Apple is not more open that they need to be to be in compliance with what they are using. | 18:06 |
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| zap | thats it | 18:06 |
| zap | on the other hand, Nokia could not open the Hildon framework, it would perfectly comply with LGPL | 18:06 |
| Veggen | Nokia should also become more open, imho :) | 18:07 |
| zap | no question here :) | 18:07 |
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| koyote | symbian really pisses me off these days. | 18:07 |
| zap | don't scratch it | 18:08 |
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| koyote | Palm still makes me angriest. There's NOTHING really WRONG with garnet | 18:12 |
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| koyote | If they'd just fix the three things, i'd never leave the palm platform for mobile computing. | 18:13 |
| kpel | when money talks technology listens :( | 18:13 |
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| koyote | kpel: not in this case. It's been perfectly obvious for years that fixing the background network connection issues and getting an updated browser working would have a huge effect | 18:17 |
| koyote | removing the tether is a bit less obvious. | 18:17 |
| kpel | koyote: and is it not the case that somebody thought that the benefit of all this would not be justified by the risk/investment? | 18:19 |
| kpel | in the sense that the benefit would be too small | 18:19 |
| kpel | probably they are worried about the competition | 18:19 |
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| JZA | hi I need to upgrade to Diablo | 18:22 |
| JZA | but where in the Documentation can I find this | 18:22 |
| JZA | found it | 18:25 |
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| crashanddie | JZA, next time, search for 10 minutes before asking? :P | 18:27 |
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| JZA | crashanddie well actually still havent found it | 18:27 |
| JZA | flasher-3.0 site seems to be down | 18:27 |
| JZA | not sure if they relocated it | 18:27 |
| crashanddie | yeah, it would appear it has been down for a couple of days now | 18:27 |
| zap | Are DBUS object names unique within a single address, or they must be unique globally? | 18:28 |
| JZA | crashanddie any way to get it otherwise | 18:28 |
| kpel | isn't there some sort of file repository maintained by nokia? | 18:28 |
| kpel | you know, for packages and docs | 18:28 |
| crashanddie | JZA, no mirrors I know of, and I wouldn't trust it | 18:28 |
| JZA | crashanddie so i can't do much? | 18:29 |
| neilpwc | JZA: http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010 | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | zap, I think it's like Java, don't make collisions, and you won't have to find out | 18:29 |
| neilpwc | Thats for the N800 at least | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | neilpwc, that's for windows | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | neilpwc, and the downloader uses the same repository | 18:29 |
| crashanddie | neilpwc, so it wouldn't work anyway | 18:29 |
| JZA | neilpwc: thanks but thats for windows, would they also publish the linux version? | 18:30 |
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| crashanddie | JZA, the linux version is on the repo | 18:32 |
| crashanddie | JZA, which is offline | 18:32 |
| JZA | crashanddie right | 18:32 |
| JZA | crashanddie and I guess the Diablo image is on the same repo | 18:32 |
| crashanddie | aye | 18:32 |
| JZA | thanks for your help | 18:32 |
| crashanddie | you can always try to contact Nokia to get things going | 18:33 |
| JZA | neah is ok, I wont die cuz diablo would be late on my pocket | 18:33 |
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| JZA | btw is root handle the sameway in diablo than chinook | 18:34 |
| JZA | ssh root@localhost | 18:34 |
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| lcuk | how do i view PMs in xchat onj n810? | 18:34 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, click on the name that appears ? | 18:34 |
| lcuk | no name appears | 18:35 |
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| lcuk | me2 is my 810, but everytime i try to paste a link i cant see it | 18:35 |
| zap | double-click on a name | 18:35 |
| johnx | lcuk, did you turn off the sidebar/buttonbar that shows the channels? | 18:35 |
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| lcuk | probably | 18:35 |
| zap | or enter /DIALOG <nick> | 18:36 |
| JZA | crashanddie so I am here, where will I see a .bin stored | 18:36 |
| JZA | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/ | 18:36 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, I did like I told you last time, put the bar on the bottom | 18:36 |
| bottlecap | Hi everyone | 18:36 |
| crashanddie | JZA, that is the repository for applications | 18:37 |
| lcuk | it doesnt do that on 810 | 18:37 |
| JZA | ok thought images could be here as well | 18:37 |
| JZA | oops | 18:37 |
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| crashanddie | JZA, http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php that is where you're supposed to get the images from... But sadly, it's down | 18:37 |
| bottlecap | I hate to ask, but I am completely out of ideas, I am looking for the 2007HE it's not on the nokia website http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/, and i've also tried bit torrent. I've googled and still nothing... anyone have a copy? | 18:38 |
| lcuk | "show channel switcher at: HIDDEN | 18:38 |
| * lcuk facepalms | 18:38 | |
| lcuk | bottlecap, think the website is down | 18:38 |
| JZA | crashanddie different question, how do I know whcih exact version am I running? | 18:38 |
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| JZA | *which | 18:39 |
| *** crashanddie changes topic to "http://maemo.org | Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | Create the new maemo.org logo: https://wiki.maemo.org/maemo.org_logo_contest | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ni | http://mxr.maemo.orgnow | NIT Flash images repository is down, don't ask, we don't have a copy" | 18:39 | |
| johnx | JZA, look in settings -> control panel -> about | 18:39 |
| * aquatix might have one | 18:39 | |
| crashanddie | aquatix, even if you do, I wouldn't recommend sending it out | 18:39 |
| aquatix | yeah | 18:39 |
| bottlecap | "NIT Flash images repository is down, don't ask, we don't have a copy" yikes as soon as I get a copy I am so putting it on torrent | 18:39 |
| crashanddie | bottlecap, don't, please | 18:40 |
| bottlecap | okay crashanddie, I'll assume you've got a good reason. | 18:40 |
| koyote | kpel: mostly it seems to have been internal politiucs and a belief in some seriously atmospheric vaporware | 18:40 |
| koyote | You'd have a hard time convincing me that putting oout an updated and working browser would make them less competitive | 18:41 |
| aquatix | bottlecap: i think it's best to keep copies of the image in one place | 18:41 |
| johnx | crashanddie, the last time there were problems accessing the official Nokia site for firmware updates Nokia thanked people for mirroring... | 18:41 |
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| crashanddie | bottlecap, there's a reason we never switched to bittorrent. The images are copyrighted, and you need a license to use it. IANAL, but I'd guess you would be liable if you distributed an image that borked people's tablets | 18:41 |
| crashanddie | That's why there's a MAC address check before being allowed to download it | 18:42 |
| kpel | koyote: oh no, i'm not saying that. i said that someone THOUGHT so :) | 18:42 |
| johnx | heh...even Nokia's not liable. They have that nice warranty disclaimer | 18:42 |
| crashanddie | I dunno, I just don't feel distributing the images over bittorrent is a thing for official images | 18:43 |
| kpel | koyote: probably the suits thought that the vapourware you mentioned was the way to go. | 18:44 |
| lcuk | if nokia would open source all their stuff it wouldnt matter about copyright anymore :D | 18:44 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, true | 18:44 |
| lcuk | or rather, would put their software under a permissive license | 18:44 |
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| *** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "http://maemo.org | Maemo Summit: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_summit_2008 | Create the new maemo.org logo: https://wiki.maemo.org/maemo.org_logo_contest | logs at http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ni | http://mxr.maemo.orgnow | tablets-dev is down, don't ask, we don't have a copy" | 18:44 | |
| kpel | lcuk: sure, and there wouldn't be nokia anymore :) | 18:44 |
| bottlecap | I just found this: Nokia's release of the N800 in January 2007 brought Internet Tablet OS 2007. OS2007 ran only on the N800 and Nokia initially had no plans to release it for the 770; however feedback from disgruntled 770 owners[27] led Nokia to release an unsupported hybrid of OS2006 and OS2007, dubbed Internet Tablet OS 2007 Hacker Edition, in February 2007.[28] OS2007HE combined the binary parts of OS2006 with most of | 18:44 |
| bottlecap | from wikipedia | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | what would be the issue of having firmware images on a .torrent that's locked behind a htpasswd / auth form? | 18:45 |
| lcuk | kpel - amazing news, where can i download open source hardware ??? | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | where you give MAC | 18:45 |
| kpel | lcuk: sourceforge :P | 18:45 |
| kpel | lcuk: seriously now, do you believe that an army of stalmanists will ever manage to replace the corporate world and the research they are doing? | 18:46 |
| lcuk | "Please wait, downloading USS Enterprise, 3.4% complete" | 18:46 |
| kpel | even if you add the bsd crowd again things don't look good | 18:46 |
| bottlecap | lcuk I'd love to see the size of that HD | 18:46 |
| lcuk | not at all, but all companies can benefit from openness | 18:46 |
| kpel | lcuk: how? i mean how will the engineer, the tester and the janitor of company X benefit from opensource? | 18:47 |
| lcuk | an experimental zone where new ideas can be tested and validated is vital to a company: why not let the actual customers have a go themselves | 18:47 |
| kpel | most probably the suits will fire them all and expect the opensource crowd to do all the work | 18:47 |
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| kpel | lcuk: experimental is the key word here. an experiment is different than the official policy. i'm all for such bold experiments but i think that switching the universe to opensource in one night will have serious socioeconomical consequences | 18:48 |
| lcuk | 99.9% of customers will not even know what source is | 18:49 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, ETA: Stardate 123566.41780821928 | 18:49 |
| lcuk | :D | 18:49 |
| crashanddie | (and yes, that is an actual stardate) | 18:49 |
| kpel | it all boils down to the greedy investors who sit on top of each company. As we all know, the excrement flow downwards. | 18:49 |
| bottlecap | Source, isn't that were the matrix comes from? | 18:49 |
| lcuk | loads of people use firefox everyday without caring that its open, and even those that do cannot just take it all and replace the app because ONE thing prevents it | 18:50 |
| lcuk | no matter how open your code is, if someone takes a fork it can never be called the same as yours | 18:50 |
| kpel | lcuk: precisely! customers don't know, and they don't want to know | 18:50 |
| lcuk | brand recognition | 18:50 |
| crashanddie | bottlecap, I think it came from a script, really | 18:50 |
| kpel | exactly, people don't care about opensource. they care about free. Not Free, free :) | 18:50 |
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| lcuk | people do not mind paying for tools (i hope i got the right meaning of free ) | 18:51 |
| kpel | hmmm, i think we are talking about people that are different than the customers of companies such as nokia | 18:52 |
| lcuk | just because there is a recipe available - im still gonna buy delicious angel cakes :) | 18:52 |
| kpel | lcuk: you don't mind buying a bluetooth headset from the nokia website? are you that rich? :) | 18:52 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, well in fact, the real recipe for delicious angel cakes isn't available | 18:52 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, so you'd get something that is healthier, cheaper, and most of all, you know what ingredients go in it (not 3 tons of sugar) | 18:53 |
| lcuk | kpel - if it fitted with my style and i could afford it why not? | 18:53 |
| kpel | people want something practical at the lowest possible price | 18:53 |
| kpel | if it looks/feels/sounds cool, even better | 18:53 |
| lcuk | yer, and you buy matching kitchen appliances where possible | 18:53 |
| lcuk | its stupid to spend loads on a fridget then scrimp on the rest | 18:53 |
| kpel | lcuk: so the problem is threefold: you have to make and more importantly, you have to SELL low-cost, functional, good-looking products. | 18:54 |
| lcuk | of course if you cant afford it all at the offered price you do what you can (i just finished downloading a toaster) | 18:54 |
| zap | I don't mind paying for open tools | 18:54 |
| zap | but I won't take even for free closed tools | 18:54 |
| lcuk | nor do i | 18:54 |
| kpel | there is no way to achieve those objectives just by throwing a source code at the masses. | 18:54 |
| lcuk | i never said there was? | 18:55 |
| lcuk | but having an open philosophy allows both parties to win | 18:55 |
| zap | throwing source code at the masses is not a silver bullet | 18:55 |
| lcuk | those which want to play: can, those that dont care can stay ignorant | 18:55 |
| lcuk | win win | 18:55 |
| zap | it's just one of the components of the success | 18:55 |
| kpel | there is a slight problem here of course: competition | 18:56 |
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| kpel | company X opens protocols/formats/code to world+dog. Then the competitors become stronger and possible new competitors appear | 18:56 |
| zap | there's a special word for that: fair competition | 18:56 |
| lcuk | yes, and you know what | 18:56 |
| kpel | and of course the investors of X are not happy and X starts firing people to cut costs. | 18:57 |
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| lcuk | because of the license it means that any advantage my competitor gets from me i can get back from them | 18:57 |
| lcuk | but i have brand recognition | 18:57 |
| bottlecap | crap now the maemo wiki is down | 18:57 |
| kpel | lcuk: but this means that there will be no differentation | 18:57 |
| zap | if source code is released as GPL, the competitor won't be able to make closed derivates | 18:57 |
| lcuk | right now, liqbase is open source. it beats the pants of anything else graphically on this system. if someone comes up with something better using mine as a base then i can make mine better | 18:57 |
| lcuk | of course it does | 18:57 |
| zap | so the original company will gain from any enhancements second company does | 18:58 |
| lcuk | it takes time to market and the competition must be serious | 18:58 |
| lcuk | you can take my code (please do) and make improvements to it. but you cannot call yours liqbase | 18:58 |
| kpel | but the companies want to differentiate. how will company X attract more customers than Y otherwise? | 18:58 |
| lcuk | you can go into direct competition with me | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | odd question to the whole a2dp discussion - would A2DP be so battery intensive if you just had .sbc files to play / send to the headset? | 18:58 |
| zap | lcuk: is your app GPL? | 18:58 |
| lcuk | yes | 18:58 |
| aquatix | who made the load applet? | 18:59 |
| zap | then I can :-P | 18:59 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, shouldn't be. :) | 18:59 |
| lcuk | zap :) i would love you to: this tablet NEEDS decent graphics | 18:59 |
| zap | lcuk: you're mixing opensource and trademarks | 18:59 |
| lcuk | its my product, im allowed to | 18:59 |
| zap | lcuk: I mean, I can fork your liqbase and still call it liqbase | 18:59 |
| lcuk | no you cant | 18:59 |
| Stskeeps | if you trademark liqbase name, then no | 19:00 |
| zap | is it a registered trademark of yours? | 19:00 |
| lcuk | look at firefox: why hasnt microsoft brought out their version of firefox using the code? | 19:00 |
| aquatix | that'd be surrendering ;) | 19:00 |
| zap | lcuk: because people would say bad things about m$ | 19:00 |
| aquatix | lcuk: better tell about iceweasel | 19:00 |
| zap | like 'm$ can't write code anymore, they just steal opensource; | 19:00 |
| lcuk | iceweasel is not firefox though | 19:00 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: so i could basically just encode my collection of mp3s into .sbc, store .. except something tells me sbc files are horrendously huge compared to mp3? | 19:00 |
| lcuk | and iceweasel does not have 17billion users | 19:00 |
| aquatix | it is, but it isn't | 19:00 |
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| kpel | lcuk: they could do it secretly (by adding ff stuff in IE) but if they got caught that would be embarassing | 19:01 |
| lcuk | BRAND recognition | 19:01 |
| aquatix | iceweasel is debian's patched firefox | 19:01 |
| lcuk | yes, but they cant say it is firefox | 19:01 |
| zap | lcuk: brand is dust | 19:01 |
| lcuk | they can say its based on it | 19:01 |
| kpel | plus m$ uses the browser as a means of user lockin. why would they use something more oriented towards openness? | 19:01 |
| zap | opensource has nothing to do with brands | 19:01 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, yeah, pretty much. also, a2dp is much better these days | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i should try it sometime again. does it work for debian yet? *ducks* | 19:01 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, it worked in beta3. Did you break it? :P | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: no clue | 19:02 |
| bottlecap | I am a Ubuntu user, I burned my windows COA | 19:02 |
| zap | lcuk: so far opensource lives fine without brands and trademarks, and I don't see any probs in future with it | 19:02 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, actually, it should work fine as it avoids all the wacky nokia sound stuff entirely | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | bottlecap: meh. you could sell it instead of burning it | 19:02 |
| lcuk | zap :) brand is still important | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | bottlecap: and donate money / make a open source bounty | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i added gnu parted as an option for partitioner btw (can't get gnome parted ported though cos of gtkmm's.. maemoities) | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: it's good for those running installer in osso-xterm, and can resize filesystems (not only their partitions) | 19:04 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, nice | 19:04 |
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| kpel | zap: brand is very important. and i would say that opensource coexists with the corporations. it cannot exist without them. you can't expect firefox to have a huge userbase without a version for windows. | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: but has a user interface that's about as obvious as sfdisk | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:04 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, hmm, my debian install just stopped booting :/ | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: fsck error? | 19:04 |
| johnx | yeah | 19:04 |
| bottlecap | I donate to GNU yearly | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | Device or resource busy? | 19:05 |
| johnx | yup :) | 19:05 |
| johnx | psychic? | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | no, i had same problem, and it baffles me totally | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | try fsck it from maemo and then try again | 19:05 |
| johnx | I just did | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | didn't work? | 19:05 |
| johnx | same problem | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | hmm. | 19:05 |
| johnx | I'll look at it | 19:05 |
| lcuk | kpel agreed, corproations can support and sponsor open source projects and help nurture them and get the best for their corporate needs. being a backer of OSS nowadays is seen as a positive direction for companies to go down | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i haven't had it happen after i moved to ext3 atleast | 19:06 |
| lcuk | and yes, windows versions help | 19:06 |
| * kpel nods | 19:06 | |
| kpel | basicaly, diversity in general helps. | 19:07 |
| lcuk | yup | 19:07 |
| kpel | i would love to have a linux version of Nokia PC Suite | 19:07 |
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| lcuk | incidentally, ive not seen you in chan before, have you seen liqbase? | 19:08 |
| lcuk | it would be good to install the nokia pc suite on your nokia tablet | 19:08 |
| kpel | lcuk: i don't come here very often. Not enough time :) And no,i didn't have the joy to see libqbase. I once experimented with libSDL but didn't do anything fancier than simple line drawing | 19:09 |
| crashanddie | lcuk, think that's encrypted enough: http://undercity.doesntexist.com/~crashanddie/cphp/data.php?year=2008&name=testcondstat ? | 19:09 |
| crashanddie | :D | 19:09 |
| kpel | i'll google it now | 19:09 |
| lcuk | :) | 19:09 |
| lcuk | seems reasonable crashanddie | 19:10 |
| crashanddie | thought so :) | 19:10 |
| lcuk | but you should use more than rot13. perhaps if you ran it twice it would help | 19:10 |
| crashanddie | that's not rot13 :) | 19:11 |
| towo | Proper rot26 is inherently secure. | 19:11 |
| kpel | lol | 19:11 |
| robink | How is rot26 inherently secure??? | 19:11 |
| kpel | people will try to decipher it and garbage will result :P | 19:12 |
| robink | haha | 19:12 |
| lcuk | its encrypted and recoverable. ive worked out a method to reverse the encryption :D | 19:12 |
| towo | Proper rot26, mind. You need to construct your plaintext carefully as not to endager the ciphertext. | 19:12 |
| robink | With what, gpg -ea? | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: Capn_Fish had same issue at some point - he moved SD card to his desktop and fscked it there atleast | 19:12 |
| towo | Shirley not, there's enough resources in the human brain for creating proper plaintexts. | 19:13 |
| robink | "proper"? | 19:13 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I'll try to force a fsck and see what happens. it didn't fsck on os2008 because it claimed to be clean | 19:13 |
| bottlecap | K I'm out! | 19:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What was the point of my wikipedia quote? . . . | 19:19 |
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| lcuk | what quote? | 19:19 |
| robink | Will Maemo eventually migrate to WebKit as GNOME and KDE are doing? | 19:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=207307&postcount=79 | 19:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, about the Hacker Editions | 19:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | robink, nothing has been announced. | 19:22 |
| robink | GeneralAntilles: OK | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd like to see WebKit as an option alongside Gecko. | 19:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can't resolve the Nokia repos on the tablet. . . . | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like how there isn't a single person at Nokia on weekends to make sure their shitty servers stay up. | 19:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'd figure with as many weekends as the damn things go down they'd figure it out. | 19:26 |
| crashanddie | GeneralAntilles, it's been down since thursday IIRC | 19:30 |
| crashanddie | the guy is probably on holiday | 19:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | I used it Friday. | 19:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | So not Thursday. | 19:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the guy was talking to my Friday morning. | 19:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/my/me/ | 19:33 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: and the guy was talking to me Friday morning. | 19:33 |
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| lorelei_ | hmm, anyone happens to have the firmware of Diablo for the N800 hosted somewhere? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N800.php seems down... | 19:37 |
| JZA | lorelei_: read the topic | 19:38 |
| lorelei_ | JZA: woops, thanks.... | 19:38 |
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| [1]gustnado | anyone here? | 20:12 |
| lcuk | no | 20:13 |
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| [1]gustnado | anyone here use eclipse for development? | 20:16 |
| crashanddie | no | 20:17 |
| [1]gustnado | why not? | 20:17 |
| crashanddie_ | no | 20:18 |
| [1]gustnado | no | 20:18 |
| crashanddie | no | 20:18 |
| lcuk | i dont use it cos i prefer komodo | 20:18 |
| [1]gustnado | komodo is? | 20:18 |
| lcuk | a dragon | 20:18 |
| lcuk | and also an editor | 20:18 |
| crashanddie | http://www.no-pest.com/KomodoDragon.jpg | 20:18 |
| crashanddie | "no" pest | 20:19 |
| crashanddie | xD | 20:19 |
| [1]gustnado | oh. I use eclipse a lot on other projects (C and Java) - it is an IDE, not just an editor. Someone built one for maemo development but I can't figure out how to use it right | 20:19 |
| [1]gustnado | btw, komodo is actually a big lizard, called a dragon | 20:19 |
| [1]gustnado | :-) | 20:20 |
| lcuk | yer i know of the ide elements, though ive always felt eclipse manages to slow down the development process so much by having so many shiney (slow moving) buttongs to work with | 20:20 |
| [1]gustnado | okay, is anyone doing cross debugging - running the debugger on, say, Linux and debugging a program on the actual maemo device (in my case, an N810) | 20:20 |
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| [1]gustnado | lcuk - I used to feel the same way - I always used VI and make... | 20:21 |
| lcuk | the maemovmware appliance has eclipse as a default - might be an idea to download that and see how it fits together? | 20:21 |
| [1]gustnado | then I had a big java project that I inherited from bozos (ugh) and eclipse saved the day. Now that I am used to it, I prefer it to VI except for primary coding in non-Java languages | 20:21 |
| [1]gustnado | I thought I'd NEVER choose a GUI editor over VI and told lots of folks that | 20:21 |
| [1]gustnado | but I was wrong | 20:21 |
| [1]gustnado | anyway, eclipse is not all that great for C | 20:21 |
| inherited | what who where ? | 20:21 |
| inherited | >_< | 20:22 |
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| inherited | [1]gustnado: you woke me up :( | 20:22 |
| [1]gustnado | I just wanna know how to do interactive debug against a program in the device, with a visual editor where I can set breakpoints, see variables, etc | 20:22 |
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| [1]gustnado | inherited... solly | 20:22 |
| teamcobra | got my n810 in a few days ago, I'm in love ;) | 20:22 |
| [1]gustnado | yeah, I'm new to the n810 | 20:22 |
| [1]gustnado | gps sorta sucks tho, lock on very slow, and I bought it for the gps | 20:23 |
| [1]gustnado | anyway... HELP on debugging needed - anyone? | 20:23 |
| lcuk | gustnado, i wouldnt know which kernel supported breakpoints, i know the latest mainline one just integrated a debugger, but have no ideas | 20:23 |
| teamcobra | ahh, I'm the paranoid type that turns the gps off ;p | 20:23 |
| lcuk | debugging for most things on device ive seen has been good old fashioned printfs | 20:24 |
| [1]gustnado | you must watch too much TV ;-) | 20:24 |
| [1]gustnado | lcuk, well that's the last resort | 20:24 |
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| teamcobra | heh, that and I can read maps ;) | 20:24 |
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| [1]gustnado | but for many things, nothing beats IDE debugging | 20:24 |
| lcuk | gps startup can be sped up considerably by using the latest OS update (diablo) and a-gpa | 20:24 |
| [1]gustnado | I am using Diablo. What is a-gpa? | 20:24 |
| lcuk | what if your ide is on the device? | 20:25 |
| lcuk | a-gps | 20:25 |
| [1]gustnado | this device is not big enough for a good ide, I'm afraid | 20:25 |
| lcuk | sorry - some map thing where you click and show it where you are | 20:25 |
| lcuk | :) | 20:25 |
| [1]gustnado | ah - I have built and run maemo-mapper, but it doesn't speed it up | 20:25 |
| [1]gustnado | will look into a-gpa (or is it a-gps?) | 20:25 |
| lcuk | but its got enough grunt to do the ocmpilation and editing source files is both practical and possible | 20:25 |
| teamcobra | was thinking of porting a sound tracker..... any suggestions? | 20:26 |
| lcuk | a-gps will boost the startup time of the gps | 20:26 |
| [1]gustnado | lcuk, true - but I don't wanna do that - why should I when I have a powerful PC thingie ssh'd to it? | 20:26 |
| lcuk | but other than that, your gps shouldnt be slow? | 20:26 |
| [1]gustnado | The only problem I have with the GPS is that it is slow | 20:26 |
| lcuk | gust - i do exactly that whilst sat at home, but when im out and about i like to code and compile on the go | 20:26 |
| [1]gustnado | other than that, it seems okay. Pretty sensitive, it works in my house under a clay tile roof | 20:26 |
| [1]gustnado | lcuk... understand | 20:27 |
| lcuk | what is slow - it tells you you were 5 miles down the road | 20:27 |
| lcuk | its slow to start | 20:27 |
| [1]gustnado | yes | 20:27 |
| lcuk | it slow to refresh | 20:27 |
| [1]gustnado | no | 20:27 |
| [1]gustnado | I find the refresh time better than the COBRA car GPS I tried out | 20:27 |
| [1]gustnado | and just as good as my Garmin | 20:27 |
| [1]gustnado | and my SirfIII hocky puck | 20:27 |
| [1]gustnado | if slow to refresh, it's the app, not the GPS | 20:27 |
| [1]gustnado | I have other devel questions too... like how to get started with a gui-based project. I started with maemo-mapper, but the makefile is one of these | 20:28 |
| [1]gustnado | autogen thingies that is inpenetrable | 20:28 |
| [1]gustnado | so I can't learn much from looking at it | 20:28 |
| lcuk | but the makefile simply glues your source to the libraries? | 20:29 |
| lcuk | you should get a list of libraries out of it easily | 20:29 |
| [1]gustnado | well, and to the includes, and it builds the binaries | 20:29 |
| [1]gustnado | you wold be surprised - take a look - you can pull the source from svn at the garage | 20:29 |
| [1]gustnado | it has all possible libraries in it, and then selects the needed ones in cryptic stuff | 20:29 |
| [1]gustnado | this is not your ordinary hand made makefile | 20:30 |
| lcuk | no, its made with autotools | 20:30 |
| [1]gustnado | exactly | 20:30 |
| lcuk | handmade == hard to work on multiple environments | 20:30 |
| [1]gustnado | and I have never used autotools, even though I have been using make for 25 years | 20:30 |
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| [1]gustnado | agree on the handmade | 20:30 |
| [1]gustnado | maybe I should learn autotools | 20:30 |
| lcuk | its only a list of libraries though - it just has a long winded way to list them | 20:30 |
| [1]gustnado | but I don't want to invest too much time on this because I only really want it for one thing: I want to use the GPS to alert me when my speed puts me in danger of photo-radar tickets | 20:31 |
| lcuk | :D heh, i can talk - ive learnt enough to read them, but i cant use them: my n810 cant install autotools | 20:31 |
| [1]gustnado | I live in a fascist town | 20:31 |
| lcuk | use basic map? | 20:31 |
| lcuk | it warns you | 20:31 |
| lcuk | mine does anyway | 20:31 |
| [1]gustnado | Can u set the speed limits urself? I know exactly what speed I want to be warned at | 20:32 |
| lcuk | tracytracy always shouts out SPEEDCAM | 20:32 |
| [1]gustnado | what's tracytracy? | 20:32 |
| lcuk | its my in car gps device :) | 20:32 |
| [1]gustnado | in my area, the darned things are in trucks and move around | 20:32 |
| [1]gustnado | so I need something just to warn me for whole stretches of road | 20:32 |
| lcuk | she sits in the passenger seat playing mahjong whilst im driving | 20:32 |
| [1]gustnado | ah... well, that's one of the best kind | 20:33 |
| [1]gustnado | but I don't have one avail when commuting | 20:33 |
| [1]gustnado | so anyone, how does one use autotools (NOT on the device, but on the cross platform)? | 20:33 |
| lcuk | the 810 built in map does warn you if it knows theres a cam there | 20:33 |
| lcuk | and im sure theres discussions on itT aobut it specifically | 20:33 |
| [1]gustnado | well, then it doesn't know about the fixed ones near me, and certainly not about the mobile ones | 20:34 |
| [1]gustnado | the built-in map is not open software | 20:34 |
| lcuk | i believe you just enter the folder in a console and type configure | 20:34 |
| [1]gustnado | I have played a little with maemo-mapper, which is open | 20:34 |
| lcuk | then it will configure a makefile according to your system, you can then make as normal | 20:34 |
| [1]gustnado | tjat | 20:34 |
| [1]gustnado | what I mean is... how do I set up a new project so that ./configure will work? I know how to use configure on an existing project, although... | 20:35 |
| lcuk | yes - but if it does the job you need - why dig deeper (unless you have time/motivation) | 20:35 |
| [1]gustnado | it complains that I don't have certain files (without telling me where to get them) | 20:35 |
| [1]gustnado | I don't really wanna dig deeper | 20:35 |
| [1]gustnado | but I do wanna be able to build my own project | 20:35 |
| [1]gustnado | if its too much trouble, I'll just hack up maemo-mapper | 20:35 |
| lcuk | or just use a homemade makefile :) | 20:36 |
| [1]gustnado | but its beau coup code | 20:36 |
| [1]gustnado | yeah, I can do that too | 20:36 |
| [1]gustnado | and maybe it's not all that hard, although in the cross compile world, there are some mysteries about what the makefile should look like | 20:36 |
| lcuk | if the project you choose grows to the point of needing one, invest the time then | 20:36 |
| [1]gustnado | yep | 20:36 |
| [1]gustnado | good advice | 20:36 |
| [1]gustnado | do you know if anyone is doing interactive debug against the device from another machine? | 20:37 |
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| [1]gustnado | I've seen some hints | 20:37 |
| lcuk | not that i know of, but if you find out - add a wiki page or post about it somewhere | 20:37 |
| [1]gustnado | yeah - good idea | 20:37 |
| [1]gustnado | I noticed the wiki was mashed yesterday | 20:37 |
| [1]gustnado | some idiot | 20:37 |
| lcuk | anyway, i was putting my head back into code :) | 20:37 |
| [1]gustnado | yeah, I've got some *paying* code to be doing :-) | 20:38 |
| [1]gustnado | for an 8-bit embedded widget | 20:38 |
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| lcuk | you aiming for fast graphics on the device? | 20:38 |
| lcuk | or for another platform? | 20:38 |
| [1]gustnado | which device? | 20:39 |
| lcuk | n8x0 | 20:39 |
| [1]gustnado | my paying code is for an industrial controller - no graphics (the MPU has only 16KB flash and 1KB RAM) | 20:39 |
| [1]gustnado | oh, n8x0 - no need for real speed on graphics | 20:39 |
| [1]gustnado | just no turtle | 20:39 |
| lcuk | :) i like embedded devices. makes you *think* about the code you write and the decisions you make | 20:40 |
| [1]gustnado | but I have never done X or GTK programming before. Hoping to go from examples rather than learn the whole thing | 20:40 |
| lcuk | heh, neither had i | 20:40 |
| [1]gustnado | yes, embedded is a different world. And it's fun when the code makes relays click and LEDs blink and stuff | 20:40 |
| robink | You never have to do revdep-rebuild on debian. | 20:41 |
| [1]gustnado | and these days, the in circuit emulator is built into the MPU, so all you need to debug it is the right PC software (free from Atmel) and an inexpensive USB interface | 20:41 |
| [1]gustnado | don't even know what revdep-rebuild is | 20:41 |
| robink | [1]gustnado: Is this an Amtel AVR or an Amtel ARM? | 20:41 |
| [1]gustnado | My primary unix experience is on unix for big mainframes | 20:41 |
| [1]gustnado | Atmel AVR ATmega | 20:41 |
| robink | [1]gustnado: Finds packages that link to outdated libraries, and recompiles them. | 20:41 |
| [1]gustnado | I've also played with the ARM | 20:41 |
| [1]gustnado | ah | 20:41 |
| robink | [1]gustnado: Cool | 20:41 |
| * lcuk waves his arm | 20:42 | |
| robink | Hello lcuk. | 20:42 |
| teamcobra | gustanado, i'm in the same boat, looking at webkit/gtk | 20:42 |
| [1]gustnado | Another product line I play with uses, believe it or not, the CPU core from the venerable Motorola 6800 - 8K of EPROM and 320 bytes of ram | 20:42 |
| lcuk | hi robink | 20:42 |
| * robink has Epiphany SVN compiled against WebKit-GTK SVN. | 20:42 | |
| [1]gustnado | teamcobra...good luck | 20:42 |
| [1]gustnado | ;-) | 20:42 |
| lcuk | so many people looking at new development :) good luck guys | 20:43 |
| lcuk | back later | 20:43 |
| [1]gustnado | ciao lcuk | 20:43 |
| LoCusF | any ideas why canola2 youtube plugin won't play any sound, only video while watching youtube videos? | 20:43 |
| robink | [1]gustnado: Is it a Freescale HC12? | 20:43 |
| [1]gustnado | what is Epiphany? | 20:43 |
| robink | [1]gustnado: The stock GNOME web browser. | 20:43 |
| [1]gustnado | Freescale HC05 | 20:43 |
| robink | [1]gustnado: ! | 20:43 |
| [1]gustnado | I wrote an assembler for it back in '85 and have been using it ever since | 20:43 |
| robink | [1]gustnado: Isn't the HC05 based on the 6502? | 20:43 |
| [1]gustnado | no, it is the 6800 I think. It's been a long time since I played with the 6502 so I could be wrong. | 20:44 |
| teamcobra | robink: want webdav space to share the debs? (pretty please?) | 20:44 |
| [1]gustnado | It has two 8 bit registers - X and A | 20:44 |
| [1]gustnado | robink - ah | 20:44 |
| robink | teamcobra: It'd be a bit of a challenge to turn them into debs...right now they'd be Gentoo binary packages. | 20:44 |
| robink | [1]gustnado: Oh yeah, you're right. | 20:45 |
| [1]gustnado | in other words, the CPU is over 30 years old. Needless to say, I have to code that in assembler. | 20:45 |
| robink | My dad used to use HC11s exclusively. | 20:45 |
| rm_you | X-Fade: ping ping | 20:45 |
| [1]gustnado | HC11 is a bit more advanced | 20:46 |
| [1]gustnado | I was able to implement true multitasking on it, whereas on the 05 I have to fake it | 20:46 |
| teamcobra | ohhhh :p I've got midori on here, and even though it has a few issues, it's faaaaast | 20:46 |
| crashanddie | liqbase | 20:46 |
| [1]gustnado | the HC11 gives you full control of the stack. The 05 doesn't let you do anything but reset it | 20:46 |
| robink | Now he uses embedded micros that use the 8008 instruction set and old Tattletales. | 20:46 |
| [1]gustnado | anyway... off subject | 20:46 |
| robink | Indeed | 20:46 |
| [1]gustnado | 8008, now that's ANCIENT. ARe you sure not 8080? | 20:47 |
| robink | Pretty sure. | 20:47 |
| [1]gustnado | 8008 was the very first 8 bit uC | 20:47 |
| [1]gustnado | and the second uP ever built AFAIK | 20:47 |
| robink | It's a nicer arch and instruction set than the basic 8008, but it's based on that design, not the 8080. | 20:47 |
| [1]gustnado | ah | 20:47 |
| [1]gustnado | I used to do 8080 and then a lot of Z80 | 20:47 |
| [1]gustnado | and them TMS9900 and TI-990 | 20:47 |
| robink | The advantage of these micros was that they were insanely cheap, insanely low-power and insanely small. | 20:48 |
| [1]gustnado | wrote a FORTH for the Z80 | 20:48 |
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| robink | I dunno what they cost now, but he was working with them (made by Phillips I think) around 2003. | 20:48 |
| [1]gustnado | yes, even the Atmel ARM is under 4$! | 20:48 |
| frewsxcv | is os2006 more stable than os2007he? | 20:48 |
| [1]gustnado | and some of these little guys are under a $ | 20:48 |
| robink | Ha, the Phillips 8008 clone was under $0.35 | 20:48 |
| [1]gustnado | wow | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | robink: epiphany-webkit maemo or? | 20:48 |
| robink | He was working on a thingy that was going into mass production. | 20:49 |
| [1]gustnado | the first computer I programmed had tubes in it | 20:49 |
| [1]gustnado | my stuff goes into mass prod | 20:49 |
| robink | Stskeeps: Nope, linked against the stock GNOME/GTK libraries and put on a Gentoo x86 desktop. | 20:49 |
| robink | Gentoo doesn't even *have* hildon yet :( | 20:49 |
| [1]gustnado | it was called MANIAC | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | robink: ah. i ran it under debian on armel, was okay | 20:49 |
| [1]gustnado | what does "armel" mean? ARM ELF? | 20:50 |
| robink | Stskeeps: Huh, amazing that it worked well. | 20:50 |
| robink | [1]gustnado: Nope, ARM little endian. | 20:50 |
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| [1]gustnado | ah | 20:50 |
| robink | maybe the e stands for ELF, dunno. | 20:50 |
| [1]gustnado | I never remember which direction little vs big endian is | 20:50 |
| [1]gustnado | fortunately it rarely matters | 20:50 |
| [1]gustnado | compiler hide all that | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | robink: maybe the joke is "el" meaning "little endian" | 20:51 |
| [1]gustnado | any idea where to find info on people using eclipse or doing cross-platform debug? Nobody today here is doing it, apparently | 20:51 |
| [1]gustnado | har! | 20:51 |
| robink | Stskeeps: Oh yeah. | 20:51 |
| [1]gustnado | good one | 20:51 |
| [1]gustnado | so ARMBE would be big endian? | 20:52 |
| robink | This is another non-Maemo question, but does anyone know if Boost's serialization library lets you specify endianness for binary output? | 20:52 |
| robink | [1]gustnado: Presumably. | 20:52 |
| robink | Nobody's answering in ##C++ or #boost | 20:53 |
| robink | It might become Maemo-relevant if I write a frontend for this app that's designed for Hildon. | 20:53 |
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| robink | Also HTML, AJAX and SVG are just as user-friendly and probably almost as fast. | 20:54 |
| robink | oops, s/8008/8051/g | 20:55 |
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| [1]gustnado | ah... yes 8051 is very popular - many vendors | 20:55 |
| robink | Yeah, it was a Phillips 8051 (the price was correct tho-- it was under $0.35 in bulk). | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | http://osdir.com/ml/debian.ports.arm/2006-04/msg00036.html <- armel/armeb explanation | 20:56 |
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| [1]gustnado | the one odd thing about the AVR's is that they are Harvard architecture (like Microchip PICs) and thus C has a bit of trouble with constants | 20:57 |
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| robink | He wrote in assembler. | 20:58 |
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| robink | The whole team did; nobody wrote C (there was talk of LISP, but nobody could find a compiler). | 20:58 |
| [1]gustnado | probably too little RAM for C | 20:58 |
| [1]gustnado | I find C on the AVR takes twice as much memory as assembly on the HC05 (twice as much program memory, lots more RAM) | 20:59 |
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| robink | I think it would've been possible to make a C version of the app, it's just nobody working on the embedded system knew C. | 21:01 |
| robink | Oh thank Frob, Gentoo now has sdcc. | 21:01 |
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| Cptnodegard | why doesnt linpus have a channel on freenode+ -.- | 21:10 |
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| teamcobra | is there a way to get the default browser in os2008 to use webkit as a rendering engine? I only ask because I've read about the EAL | 21:25 |
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| gelodso | Hi | 21:26 |
| gelodso | Has anyone ever had a problem where they can't see their internal memory card? | 21:26 |
| gelodso | It's happend to me twice | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | gelodso: is it when the back cover is off? | 21:27 |
| gelodso | nope | 21:27 |
| gelodso | I just turn it on and it doesn't recognize the internal memory card | 21:28 |
| gelodso | N810 | 21:28 |
| gelodso | and so it also doesn't recognize the removable storage either | 21:28 |
| gelodso | everything works et | 21:28 |
| gelodso | but i have no storage space | 21:28 |
| gelodso | it happened yesterday and when i went to work with it it picked up some file sharing network and then it found the internal memory again | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 21:30 |
| gelodso | weird | 21:30 |
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| gelodso | it recognizs it again | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | anything odd in dmesg? | 21:31 |
| gelodso | dmesg? | 21:31 |
| gelodso | what's that? | 21:31 |
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| GAN800 | Sure, teamcobra, if you want to code up WebKit to work with EAL. | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | gelodso: it's a command used in X Terminal to see messages from the kernel | 21:32 |
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| gelodso | why does my diablo say prereleased? | 21:38 |
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| gelodso | I wonder if i'm running an older diablo release | 21:38 |
| JZA | gelodso: how many diablo release have there been? | 21:39 |
| gelodso | one? | 21:39 |
| gelodso | diablo-uarm-prereleased.gcc34qemu | 21:40 |
| gelodso | that's what it says | 21:40 |
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| gelodso | can anyone recommend the best way of puting the sd card in the n810 | 21:51 |
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| gelodso | sdhit always pops out | 21:52 |
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| Binky | Hi everyone | 22:21 |
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| robink | Hello Binky. | 22:29 |
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| Stskeeps | http://mojo.handhelds.org/node/55 <- kinda interesting, they're quite far with the main component | 22:33 |
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| ponso | Hey | 22:57 |
| ponso | Since the SDHC can't be read via a computer how do you get stuff on your n810 | 22:57 |
| ponso | via ssh? | 22:57 |
| RST38bis | why cant it be read? | 22:58 |
| ponso | i don't know | 22:58 |
| ponso | maybe my reader is broke | 22:58 |
| lcuk | or old | 22:59 |
| doc|home | heh | 22:59 |
| doc|home | you could scp it over wifi | 22:59 |
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| ponso | yeah | 22:59 |
| ponso | must be the reader | 22:59 |
| ponso | scp? | 22:59 |
| ponso | Is there not a GUI to do this? | 22:59 |
| lcuk | if you plug the usb in, then the cards should be visible | 22:59 |
| ponso | oh | 22:59 |
| ponso | duh | 22:59 |
| ponso | thanks lcuk | 22:59 |
| doc|home | ponso: using linux or windows? | 22:59 |
| lcuk | on the home computer: use the 8x0 as a card reader :) | 22:59 |
| doc|home | you can do that? | 23:00 |
| * doc|home didn't know that | 23:00 | |
| lcuk | with FAT disks yes | 23:00 |
| lcuk | obviously in linux it works with whatever | 23:00 |
| lcuk | or so i have been told | 23:00 |
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| RST38bis | Death. Desolation. Plastic forks. | 23:05 |
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| GAN800 | 2 days until tablets dev is back. | 23:07 |
| GAN800 | Amateur hour at Nokia. :/ | 23:07 |
| RST38bis | ? | 23:07 |
| GAN800 | bug #3500 | 23:08 |
| GAN800 | They really need to get it together | 23:08 |
| GAN800 | One hand is doing one thing and the other is doing something completely different. | 23:08 |
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| RST38bis | they have got 3 (three!) phone divisions and you want them to get dev support axt | 23:10 |
| RST38bis | act together | 23:10 |
| GAN800 | To manage a stupid server changeover | 23:10 |
| GAN800 | Not the whole company for everything, but for stupid shit like making the dns point at the right place and not leaving people stranded for 3 days. | 23:11 |
| RST38bis | repos borked as well? splendid. | 23:12 |
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| RST38bis | weweird: mit produces 80% of power it consumes | 23:13 |
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| Cptnodegard | how far have things gotten with mouse support? | 23:31 |
| Cptnodegard | need to improve the usability of my tablet to prevent me from buyin an aspire one, the battery life of that thing is utterly useless | 23:32 |
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| JZA | hi anyone know how would I use find to get my email from ossomail | 23:49 |
| JZA | I am on chinook | 23:49 |
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