IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-05-25

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qwerty12_N800"mgedmin: then again I'm a geek" :p :)00:03
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myscwell, debian now connects to my AP! one last hurdle...dhcpd is not listening on wlan000:04
sp3000that's ok, I'll listen on your wlan000:06
GAN8001sp3000 is such a pal00:08
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myschrmm, it listens on usb0 though, this might be the problem, will try disabling usb000:09
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n800nthere is no DS emulator for maemo, correct?00:10
fireunI'm starting to wonder if I was sane to even consider taking on a maemo project00:11
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qwerty12_N800n800n, theres extremely slow  ome00:11
fireunsetting up and using the build environment is such a cluster00:11
sp3000...of joy00:11
n800nqwerty12_N800 do you remember names?00:11
* sp3000 approves of the aesthetic principle of
qwerty12_N800desume (smth like that). search itt (but VERY slow)00:12
fireunsp3000: wheres the one for 2.5" or smaller drives?00:12
fireunoh wait, they come with their own cases00:12
sp3000that one claims to eat 2.5" too00:12
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sp3000of course at that point the space overhead starts to become amusing00:15
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n800nit sounds worse than it is and a lot funnier00:18
n800nthan it sounds00:18
qwerty12_N800wtf :p00:19
qwerty12_N800load the fuel...00:19
n800nweird huh00:19
qwerty12_N800(pun intended)00:19
mgedminokay, maemo-sdk step #3 completed00:23
mgedminthis is going to take hours00:23
n800neww 10 fps.00:24
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qwerty12_N800.install files  which don't specify a explicit distribution don't go down with diablo well :(00:25
GAN8001mgedmin, vmware image . . . ?00:26
mgedminGAN8001: I already have scratchbox installed and working with all three targets00:27
mgedminI want to play with this new experimental scratchbox2 toy00:27
* qwerty12_N800 couldn't get sbox1 and sbox2 installed together on same system :/00:27
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mgedmindon't tell me I'm going to break my existing sbox1 install please00:31
qwerty12_N800nah, it's just that sbox2 wouldn't install for me. it may (hopefully) work fine for you00:32
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mgedminsudo apt-get install maemo-sdk succeeded00:34
mgedminsudo maemo-tools -m succeeded00:34
mgedminnow running maemo-rootstrap install all00:35
mgedmin/usr/bin/sb2-config: line 40: echo: write error: No space left on device00:35
mgedminI had 2.8 gigs free this morning00:35
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mgedmin/opt/maemo is 1.1 gigs total00:36
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mgedminapt-get clean freed half a gig00:36
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mgedminokay, 2.9 gigs free00:37
mgedminlet's try maemo-rootstrap install all again00:37
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mgedminah, I also have a gig of data in ~/.maemo-sdk00:39
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befr0dHi how do i use alt key on n810 kb?00:42
pupnikhi befr0d, for what software?00:42
pupnikhey mgedmin long time00:43
* mgedmin waves00:43
mgedminbefr0d: for any terminal app, to get alt+letter, press esc and then letter00:43
mgedminesc is the big circled arrow key on the left of the screen00:43
* mgedmin waves at pupnik00:44
mgedminanother useful thing to know about terminal apps is that tab is ctrl+i00:45
befr0dThanks that worked00:45
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befr0dI used esc kwy from the touchscreen00:45
befr0dStill need to get used to this kb :)00:46
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* pupnik is sad at big red line running up thinkpad screen00:47
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mgedminthe thinkpad is dead, long live the thinkpad00:48
qwerty12_N800pupnik, i've got a line like that on another dell monitor :(00:48
GAN8001pupnik, hit it with a stick.00:48
mgedmintime to get a new one00:48
pupnikmgedmin: man that's useful info00:49
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pupniksry i meant ctrl+i00:49
pupnikdid not know that00:49
nano-Hi, I'm porting a program from desktop to maemo/hildon, and my lazyloading stopped working. On the desktop I intercept get_value in the GtkTreeModel interface, which allows me to dynamically load data into the tree view.00:50
nano-However.. on maemo/hildon, get_value is called for all rows even though I've set fixed height and stuff like that.00:50
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nano-What am I missing?00:51
* lcuk is sad to see an all white pixel and next an all black pixel line running across on his laptop :(00:52
befr0dIs there any way to disable the tips that appear when yountype on the n810?00:53
mgedmindo I want binary packages in my chinook rootstrap?00:53
qwerty12_N800yes, i think it's closed stuff00:53
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mgedminbefr0d: I'm pretty sure you can do that in the control panel00:54
befr0dYou type*00:54
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lcukyes, settings control panel, text input settings, onscreen languages, untick00:54
mgedminright, closed stuff -- but do I want it?00:54
mgedminwhat's it good for?00:54
mgedminrunning binary gui apps in xephyr?00:54
qwerty12_N800I can't remember, it's same as maemo-explict package in sbox100:55
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befr0dthat worked. thanks00:56
mgedminokay, maemo-sdk setup is done00:56
mgedminand the mistral target is unable to run C compiled programs00:57
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mgedminsame error in chinook target00:58
mgedminrunning sb2 dpkg-buildpackage without the -d script gives an interesting intermission00:59
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mgedminbut otoh I don't seem to have any problems with fakeroot01:00
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befr0ddoes the x server on n810 accept external connections?01:00
mgedminit shouldn't01:01
befr0dbut its possible to make it listen rigth?01:01
mgedminand netstat confirms that it isn't listening on tcp01:02
mgedminyou can use ssh's x forwarding01:02
mgedminif you run ssh from osso-xterm01:02
befr0dok let me see01:02
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mgedminoh, hey, sbox 1 doesn't work either01:05
mgedminI haven't tried if after the upgrade to ubuntu hardy01:06
mgedminat least it tells me what to do01:06
qwerty12_N800disable vdso and lower mmap (?) value01:06
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mgedminsb-login tells me half of it (the vdso thing)01:07
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mgedminah, the other magic command is01:09
mgedminecho 4096 | sudo tee /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr01:09
mgedminlooks like both scratchboxes work now01:09
qwerty12_N800I edited sysctl to make it permanent01:10
mgedminhm, interesting error01:11
mgedminERROR: object '' from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded: ignored.01:11
mgedminat the end of the build01:11
mgedminlooks like this is when it tried to gpg sign my .changes file01:11
mgedminokay the instructions at work for me after the sysctl changes on ubuntu hardy01:12
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mgedmincost in disk space: 3.2 gigs01:12
mgedminplus whatever the maemo-sdk deb and its dependencies weigh01:13
qwerty12_N800for everything else, there's mastercard01:13
* mgedmin gives in and adds the SDK repository to sources.list on hisl N81001:14
* mgedmin wants strace, and gdb, and xauth01:14
mgedminhey, where's xauth?01:14
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mgedminwell, it's an opportunity to test sb2 for real01:19
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mgedminwhy does xauth depend on the C preprocessor?01:29
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mgedminuh, oh, I'm out of disk space on my n81001:32
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KotCzarnyclone to sd01:36
l7__how do you clone?01:40
l7__google finds nothing for that01:40
KotCzarnywhat was the link to the deb?01:41
KotCzarnyinfobot: maemoclone is
infobotKotCzarny: okay01:41
infobotrumour has it, maemoclone is
l7__ah interesting, thanks01:41
l7__it's funny that it was not indexed by search engines01:42
l7__does this only work with the n810?01:43
GAN8001Google finds tons of stuff for me. :P01:43
GAN8001Any NIT. . . .01:43
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KotCzarnyl7: n8x001:43
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Johnny5That link is painful on the eyes.01:44
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mgedminyay, ssh X forwarding works in the other direction too, now that I've installed xauth01:45
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mgedminhar har har01:46
KotCzarnymgedmin: having fun with linux?01:46
mgedminI've maemo-mapper running on my n810 displaying on a window on my laptop01:46
mgedminthe gtk theme doesn't work, as there's no sapwood-server running01:47
mgedminbut I can resize the maemo mapper window to any size I like01:47
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mgedminhm, osso-xterm opens on the device screen despite my $DISPLAY setting01:48
mgedminsome maemo-launcher dbus magic is interfering01:48
mgedminbut the whole point of the excercise is that I can now transfer the clipboard with xsel via X forwarding01:48
mgedmin... um01:49
mgedminssh X forwarding is entirely unnecessary when all I want to do is01:51
mgedminxsel | ssh mg-n810 'xsel -b --display :0'01:51
* mgedmin yawns01:55
mgedmingoodnight, all01:55
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jldiazI've installed mpd in the n81002:07
jldiazI like the separation between server and interface (client)02:08
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jldiazhowever, I noticed a much higher CPU consuption while playing music than with other players (mplayer, osso-media-serv)02:09
jldiazmpd uses about 30% CPU, while others only 0.1%02:09
jldiazI assume that this because the audio decoding is done by the CPU instead the DSP02:09
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jldiazthere are plans of a optimzed maemo port?02:11
jldiazIn fact, mpd could be only a wrapper around osso-media-serv02:12
jldiaztranslating tcp/ip mpd commands into dbus messages to osso-media-serv02:12
KotCzarny0.1% is a lie02:13
KotCzarnyand top is not a benchmark02:14
KotCzarnyinfobot: top is not a benchmark02:14
infobot...but top is already something else...02:14
infobotit has been said that top is acting funky - keeps segfaulting - that's an old problem I know02:14
jldiazif it uses CPU instead of DSP, I assume that this shortens the battery life02:14
KotCzarnyinfobot: forget top02:14
infoboti forgot top, KotCzarny02:14
KotCzarnyinfobot: top is not a benchmark02:14
infobotokay, KotCzarny02:14
jldiazKotCzarny, what should I use instead?02:15
KotCzarnydecode to file or /dev/null and check the time taken02:15
jldiazbut... let's suppose that the code contains some waiting loop02:16
jldiazinstead of blocking02:16
jldiazthis would make a high CPU consumption02:16
jldiazdetectable by top02:16
KotCzarnywaiting loop doesn't take cpu02:16
KotCzarnyunless it's braindeadly written02:17
jldiazI mean, not sleeping02:17
jldiazyes, I'm refering to that kind of waiting loops02:17
KotCzarnythen don't use such decoder02:17
GAN8001jldiaz, the DSP is more efficient at decoding MP3s, but with the default kernel, things get locked to 330MHz when DSP is in use02:17
GAN8001Which may actually mean more battery usage if that 30% is at 165MHz. . . .02:17
jldiazthat's interesting, GAN800102:18
GAN8001Battery usage when using the DSP, rather.02:18
jldiazhowever I noticed a much more battery draining using mpd than using, say, mplayer02:18
* GAN8001 hasn't actually done any testing.02:18
jldiazhas this some sense?02:18
KotCzarnyjldiaz: well, you can make a test02:19
KotCzarnybut it will take some time02:19
jldiazmy point is, if the decoder is really badly coded, and wastes CPU cycles, how could I detect it?02:19
KotCzarnyie. charge up your nokia02:19
jldiazAccording to KotCzarny, top is not the way02:19
KotCzarnythen play mp3 in a loop until battery is dead02:19
jldiazbut decoding to /dev/null and timing is not either02:19
KotCzarnymeasure time02:19
KotCzarnythen, charge again02:19
KotCzarnyand decode in a loop using another decoder02:20
KotCzarnyand measure time again02:20
KotCzarnythat will give you true answer how well it performs02:20
jldiazyes KotCzarny, I agree this would be the undeniable way, but... :-)02:20
jldiazI involuntary performed a different test02:20
jldiazI had the battery almost discharged02:21
jldiazthen, I plugged the charger02:21
jldiazand played some music with mpd02:21
jldiazfor about two hors02:21
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jldiazwhen I stopped the music and unplugged the charger, the batery was still almost empty02:21
jldiazthat alarmed me02:21
jldiazin other occasions, in a similar scenario but with mplayer instead of mpd, the battery gets half charged02:22
jldiazdoes this means something about the decoder? or is my battery becoming to die...?02:22
jldiaz(starting to die, was what I meant)02:23
KotCzarnyit only means that mpd discharges your battery faster when using it as player02:23
jldiazok, this is what I thought02:23
jldiazthen, I used top to compare CPU usage among mpd and mplayer02:23
jldiazwith the aforementionated results02:23
infobothmm... top is not a benchmark02:23
jldiazwhich points in the same direction02:23
jldiazI know, I know.. :)02:23
jldiazanyway, 30% vs. 0.1% has to mean something02:24
jldiazeven if both are lies :-)02:24
Knirchactually, it means that one is not the other02:24
KotCzarnytop won't catch apps which use cpu in very short intervals02:24
jldiazKotCzarny, ok, but these apps are more battery conservative, then02:25
Knirchjldiaz: have you tested that?02:25
KotCzarnynot necessarily02:25
Knirchor are you basing it on the values we shall not mention again02:25
jldiazmy point is that the CPU% reported by top is proportional to the battery consumption of the app.02:25
jldiazok, not linearly, but proportional02:25
KotCzarnynot necessarily02:25
KotCzarnyi don't know if it would work but try setting interval to 0.102:26
jldiazok, but mpd discharged my battery faster than mplayer02:26
jldiazso this implies a more inefficient implementation02:27
fireuntricks are expensive02:27
jldiazso, coming to my original cuestion...02:27
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jldiazthere is someone working in a more optimized mpd for tablets?02:27
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fireunthere's a lot of people working on a lot of similar things, but nothing really well done anywhere much02:28
fireunthere are way too many media players for the maemo platform02:28
jldiazand my other question (answered by Knirch, I don't know if the others agree)02:28
fireunso since mpd "works" I doubt it gets too much attention02:28
KotCzarnythere is no such thing as too many apps02:29
jldiazwould it be more battery conservative a DSP based implementation?02:29
jldiazKnirch answered: on the contrary02:29
fireunKotCzarny: too many -different- apps02:29
fireunKotCzarny: I agree02:29
KotCzarnyfireun: i would agree if it was, too many different protocols02:29
KnirchI've not answered anything02:29
KnirchI've questioned your _assumptions_02:29
fireunKotCzarny: but if there are many, and they suck uniformly, and none really give much feature advantage... then there are too many02:29
KotCzarnyif they all use common ipc, then it's fine02:29
jldiazKnirch, ok, I stand corrected02:29
KotCzarnyisn't it?02:29
jldiazso my question remains unanswered :-)02:30
Knirchjldiaz: from a user interaction point of view, anything that can be done elsewhere and leave cycles for your main cpu will improve your experience, but says nothing about battery drainage02:31
Knirch(depending on how everything is connected and if they share memory bus, if the app is memory intensive, etc, etc, etc, etc)02:31
jldiazKnirch, aha... But since I'm interested in the case of playing music. while no other activity is performed in the tablet, I'm mostly interested in battery life02:32
jldiazand looking for efficient players (in this sense)02:32
lcukjldiaz, if the cpu has clocked itself down to powersave speed (166mhz) then any process running at that will be showing as higher cpu usage than the same app running under the 400mhz performance branch.02:32
KotCzarnylcuk: that doesn't apply if you use dsp02:32
jldiazlcuk, that is interesting too...02:32
lcukand if the app uses the DSP versus the cpu then similar swings can occur02:32
KotCzarnycpu is set to 330/220 then no matter what cpufreq you have set02:33
Knirchjldiaz: I'd say: fully charge your nokia, play the same song on repeat, measure the time it takes until it shuts down. Do repeat with next player, and next.. and next..02:33
jldiazso in the end, the only experiment which could give me a true answer, would be the one suggested by KotCzarny02:33
KotCzarny(or 400/133 if you use op_patch)02:33
Knirchjldiaz: and do NOTHING else with it for the duration02:33
lcukKotCzarny, o-rly,   powersave=166,   ondemand between 166 and 400, performance 40002:33
KotCzarnylcuk: play some mp3, check again02:33
jldiazKnirch, could you think in some way of perform this experiment automatically, i.e. without my supervision?02:34
KotCzarny(using dsp decoder of course)02:34
lcukwhen dsp in action i know - i was playing on hooiday and the max top total super speed dropped02:34
GAN800fireun, you're working under the assumption that work going into many mediocre media players is work that would otherwise go into one awesome one, which is a stupid assumption. . . .02:34
KotCzarnylcuk: it's not dropped02:34
KotCzarnyit's set02:34
KotCzarnyno matter what is cpu load02:34
KotCzarnyit's locked to dsp op freq02:34
lcukyer, the upper limit changes from 400 without dsp to whatever it is when running dsp02:35
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KotCzarnylcuk: install kernel with op patch for a test02:35
jldiazI think that I could write a small program which measures the time between its starting and the notification of "low-battery", and writes that time in some log...02:35
KotCzarnyand you can choose what op mode dsp should use02:35
fireunGAN800: I think you assuming what I'm assuming is... well, inaccurate (:02:36
KotCzarnyso you could test your app with standard and hacked speeds without reboot02:36
GAN800jldiaz, battery-monitor cab do x time reports.02:36
GAN800It is, fireun.02:36
jldiazI assume that programs receive some kind of signal on low-battery condition02:36
KotCzarnyjldiaz: yes, kill02:36
GAN800jldiaz, nitapps.com02:36
KotCzarnywhen the systems goes down :)02:36
jldiazhehe, KotCzarny02:37
jldiazI meant, *before* that02:37
jldiazwhen the alert appears on screen02:37
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KotCzarnyprobably some info on dbus02:37
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KotCzarnybut you have to listen to it02:37
jldiazok, I can do some research about that02:37
GAN800fireun, if you've got such an awesome idea for a media player, why don't you join a project and help make it that? :)02:38
KotCzarnyi should find me some breakfast02:39
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GAN800I've got a dual-monitor N800 setup going here . . . TV on one, irc/web on the other.02:44
* KotCzarny has quadruple-monitor setup02:45
KotCzarny1x 1600x1200, 2x1024x768, 1x800x48002:45
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fireunGAN800: there you go assuming again (:02:47
fireunI dont believe I said anything to that affect02:48
fireunor effect either02:48
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KotCzarnyaffected effect02:48
fireunheh, yes.02:48
* KotCzarny has pierogi02:49
fireunis that like french orange juice?02:49
fireunis it a legal word?02:49
KotCzarnyin the same way as pizza02:50
fireunlike dictionary word02:50
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fireunlike wontons, but different02:50
GAN800Then quit yer bitching, fireun. ;)02:50
fireunand I'm hungry either way02:51
fireunGAN800: yer funny02:51
fireunKotCzarny: excellent!02:51
fireunpolish dimsum02:51
fireunKotCzarny: what kind of sauce do you (if at all) dip it in?02:52
KotCzarnythey are filled with cheese02:52
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KotCzarnywhite (cottage?) cheese02:52
fireunall I've had is some toast, coffee, bananna bread, and coffee today02:53
fireunnot necessarily in that order02:53
KotCzarnymake cheese sandwich02:53
fireunright, theres quesadillas being made, very close and I may have to step out and get one. (:02:53
fireunhmm, grilled cottage cheese sandwitch... that, may not be advisable.02:54
KotCzarnysand witch?02:54
fireunsorry, for some reason the spell checker isnt working02:54
* KotCzarny never uses spell checkers02:54
KotCzarny(other than builtin in my brain of course)02:55
* fireun thinks KotCzarny just got it02:55
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dick-richardsoni wish I'd have known what I know about ssh 10 years ago03:17
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mza-do you guys talk about hardware here or just software?03:58
GAN8001Everything from software to firearms.03:58
mza-oh cool03:58
mza-well, i ordered my N81003:58
mza-should be here later this week03:58
mza-and i had some questions03:58
mza-i wanted to try and get my CDU-550 modem to work03:59
mza-it seems all you need is usbserial.ko03:59
mza-my question is about getting it powered03:59
mza-in usb host mode, how much can the N810 produce through usb?04:00
AStorm100 mA04:00
AStormAKA low power USB04:00
AStormat most 2 such devices04:01
mza-CDMA Max < 700mA04:02
mza-so id need another power source04:02
AStormyes, a powered hub04:02
mza-would that work?04:02
AStormmost likely04:03
AStormcheck what the batteries are - if it's possible to find replacements04:03
mza-4 double A's04:03
AStormah, so just get it04:04
mza-truple A04:04
AStormit's a bit large for a device as small as N810 still :>04:04
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mza-and what;s the word on silverlight?04:06
mza-or whatever04:07
mza-id really like to watch my baseball games;)04:07
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mza-and that hub doesnt look that big04:09
mza-i could prolly fit the N810 and that in a pocket pretty easily04:10
befordthere are ports of mono already availible04:10
mza-so that would give me the ability to view sites that use silverlight?04:11
befordits just mono04:13
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GAN800Hey, milhouse, what's the word?04:32
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milhouseumm...not much... network problems :)04:35
GAN800Ah, right, the 103.04:37
infobotGAN800 meant: Ah, right, the 113.04:37
cactaurHi, I'm having trouble with mogg. I tried installing it and got an error that libvorbisidec1 was missing. I previously installed ogg-support, but uninstalled it when I found out that mogg handled tags. Can anyone help find out what's wrong?04:37
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cactaurAm I supposed to be root to use apt-get?04:47
infobotmethinks easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com04:48
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myscok, it was a false alarm, still can't get wireless on johnx's distrib04:56
mysci think his "wireless just works" comment on the wiki is a bit off mark  :)04:56
GAN800Works fine here. . . .04:57
myscGAN, mind pasting your /etc/network/interfaces (x'ing out the psk of course).05:00
GAN800Non-existent at the moment.05:01
GAN800I nuked the card two days ago in preparation for a resetup for Diablo.05:01
summatusmentisinteresting, full debian05:01
GAN800Haven't gotten around to it yet.05:01
myscdid you do any significant tweaking or just add the wpa lines in that file?05:02
GAN800Just changed/added the appropriate lines.05:03
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myscno need to issue iwconfig or ifconfig commands, then...05:04
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cactaurAll right, I think I took care of it!05:07
summatusmentiscactaur: you also spend time in pharyngula? :)05:08
cactaursummatusmentis: I didn't know you were here too!05:08
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summatusmentislol, just purchased an N81005:08
summatusmentisI really need to stop spending so much time on irc, you're in here, natefoo is in #openafs05:09
summatusmentisit's scary05:09
summatusmentisso, you have an N8x0 series, at least, I hope05:10
summatusmentiscool, do you do anything interesting with it?05:12
summatusmentisI'm looking to hack on my N810 to make it almost as usable as my lappy05:12
cactaurWell, as far as I know, the only thing a tablet can't do that a laptop can is type quickly. And you can get a bluetooth keyboard to fix that problem.05:13
cactaurI've got Pidgin because I don't think I can convince all of my friends to use Jabber.05:15
summatusmentiswell, N810 has a thumb board, I'm relatively proficient05:15
cactaurAh... well.... lucky you! I just managed to get ogg support on my N800.... but it didn't work out the way I wanted it to.05:16
cactaurThe media player hasn't read my tags.05:16
myscdon't super type on a bt kb though, you'll overload it and it'll do funky stuff05:16
cactauroh, hahaha05:17
mysci was speed-typing a reply email to my boss and i wrote "i appreciate your feedback and..." and it turned into "fuck you, asshole"05:18
GAN800cactar, jabber transports, rtcomm beta or the appropriate telepathy addon from colabora.05:18
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cactaurI've read that there aren't really that great transports for Yahoo! Messenger.05:19
myscpidgin does yahoo, not sure how good/bad it is05:19
GAN800pidgin sucks hard on the tablets.05:19
GAN800Taked up a taskbar slot all the time, you always haave to think about it.05:20
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GAN800rtcomm is all automatic and pain free.05:20
myscoh yeh, i removed the taskbar slot in preferences05:20
GAN800cactaur, look at the colabora telepathy addons or rtcomm beta, then.05:21
myschow do you make the matchbox kb black and not the default white?05:21
cactaurWell, I only use pidgin when I can't use my Desktop. If pidgin becomes intolerable enough, I could probably just use gizmo.05:23
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GAN800Gizmo still sucks05:26
GAN800seriously, just ise the built-in rtcomm that doesn't suck. It does sip for Gizmo, too.05:27
mysca lot of hte screenshots i see show a black kb how do i get one?05:27
myschrmm, guess no easier way than editing the images or getting a theme with a black one..05:31
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summatusmentiserm... I should stop changing the ssid's on routers my parents don't own05:38
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myscmanually making a new theme is too time consuming06:01
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KotCzarnythere are templates06:04
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summatusmentisdoes KOffice read/write do MS formats?06:35
summatusmentisalso, is there a way to tell how good the maps are for a certain area on maemo mapper?06:41
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WorkingOnWiseI hope someone is is this for wierd. I started the map app, and after around 45 secs, my IT rebooted. Now, it will boot into the OS on flash, but if I try booting into the OS on the SD card, it reboots when it should switch from the text boot message to the pretty Nokia hands....06:47
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zpolhow use the libgtkmozembed+python?07:17
zpolimport gtkmozembed?07:17
zpolnot module :(07:17
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zpolany ideas?07:20
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cactaurpssst.... does anyone use GrandCentral?08:35
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JaffaMorning, all09:43
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eichiis there a good geocaching software for maemo?11:06
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keesjeichi: not that I am aware of11:24
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MipsIr1can anyone point me to docs on making the debian packages? not much of a debian user11:47
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myschrmmm, my nit just killed my internal 4gb card.12:33
mysci was booted into part 3 (debian) rebooted and fanoush didn't recognize anything.12:33
qwerty12Tried the kiss of life on it?12:33
myschah, what's that?12:33
qwerty12fsck? :P12:34
qwerty12Due to an error in my bad scripting skills, I am now able to boot into debian after about a week.12:34
myscthe nit doesn't recognize it and i don't have an sdhc reader12:34
qwerty12Try plugging the usb cable in regardless and seeing if anything new comes in /dev12:35
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qwerty12Hopefully, at least you may be able to do an sfdisk.12:37
mysci'll try but i have to boot my linux box. what could cause this other than faulty card?12:37
myscis there any known problem on n8x0 killing cards?12:37
KotCzarnymysc: does sfdisk -l show your card?12:38
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myscmaybe i just got a shit card. it's patriot12:44
mysclasted a whole 4 days12:44
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KotCzarnymaybe contacts are bad12:45
qwerty12Wow, that is shit. I paid £21 (round $42) for 8GB class 2 SDHC card and I've abused it and it still works fine :p12:46
KotCzarnytry removing and reinserting?12:46
KotCzarnypeople, hear ya, qwerty speaketh truth12:46
myscyeah ive removed it and reinserted12:46
KotCzarnymysc and still nothing?12:47
* KotCzarny used 4 and 8 gb sd cards in n80012:47
myscthis is 4gb class 6 using an adaptor12:47
myscwhen i put the included nokia card in the same adaptor and slot it detects it. so its not the nit, it's the card12:48
myscoh well, bad way to end the evening. i had even finalized my tweaking of johnx's beta.12:51
* qwerty12 just finished flashing custom kernel :)12:54
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myscdo you all use the internal card for swap or leave it at the nand 128 mem?13:44
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jldiaz  at then 128M there is no swap memory13:59
jldiazI use the external card (I own a n810)13:59
AStormblah blah, what about it?14:01
qwerty12jldiaz, That isn't your blog by any chance?14:01
jldiazwell, more or less14:01
jldiazit is a blog shared among 4 authors14:01
jldiazaltough only two had written something up to now14:02
jldiaz(have written)14:02
jldiazexcuse my english14:02
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gimmalhey all14:10
flo_laphi gimmal14:11
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gimmalhey, anyone might know what java versions jalimo would support? looking at a schweet lil wysiwyg java xml editor, but it req's java >=1.514:11
gimmaloxygenxml, fwiw:
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RST38hkill kill14:13
* gimmal volunteers >|^)14:14
gimmalfwiw, was thinking that a good-enough java-based wysiwyg [X]HTML  editor could be a convenient replacement in lieu of abiword/OOo14:16
gimmalthe question, then, "what is 'good enough'?" hehehe14:16
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RST38hAStorm: java, xml, java xml editors14:19
AStormRST38h: yeah, kill14:19
AStormI now get to do some XSLT14:20
* RST38h lost 2 weeks trying to make use of XSLT14:20
RST38hFinally found out that the only usable XSLT processor is "StarletXML", XSLT 1.x is near useless (not event pattern matching works) and XSLT 2.x not implemented by anybody14:21
RST38hEnded up using PERL.14:21
AStormRST38h: :>14:23
AStormI wonder, can Firefox directly run XSLT?14:23
RST38hit should14:24
RST38hthe mention correct xslt document url in your xml14:24
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RST38hthe real question is whether you should use a standard made up by indian "programmers" with limited knowledge of visual basic14:25
RST38hthat relates both to xslt and xpath14:25
AStormRST38h: the question is not of "should", as I shouldn't14:25
AStormbut I have to :|14:26
RST38hno regexp. no joins. basic constructs take 4-5 times the amount of space taken by actual replacements14:26
AStormI know it's horrible14:26
RST38hOh, have I forgotten "no includes"? :)14:26
AStormlike most xml14:26
AStormouch :>14:27
RST38hActually, there is a SEPARATE XML standard for includes, but nobody implements it of course14:27
* RST38h ended up running xml documents through CPP14:27
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blafaselJava isn't bad imo. The mess of three letter acronyms for billions of "standards" in the java world is. And I've never found a good use for XML other than XMPP ;)14:29
AStormeven XMPP is overrated14:30
AStormJava is bad due to it's rigidity and prevalent weak programmers you have to scrub code after14:31
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gimmalfwiw, saxon is a good (java) xslt processor. in foss land, gnome's libxml can doit too, usually14:36
gimmalsaxon is foss too, and libxml just ain't java hehe14:36
gimmalgood or bad14:37
RST38hgimmal: wrong place to ask14:37
RST38hjoin some java forum and ask the indians =)14:37
gimmalAStorm: firefox should be able to use xslt, yeah, so long as the page has the right <?stylesheet ..?> kind of thing in it14:37
gimmalah, wasn't meaning to ask "good or bad?" just saying, take it how y'will hehe14:37
* gimmal likes java a HELL of a lot more than common lisp, fwiw14:38
AStormgimmal: and I like Common Lisp more than Java ;P14:38
AStormand like Python more than Common Lisp14:38
AStormhell, I like C++ more than Java14:38
* gimmal spent a good(?) long time beating his head against the bit-wall with common lisp; java is easier to draw a bead on, imo14:39
AStormnot to mention C# (except stupid M$-bound)14:39
AStormgimmal: not really14:39
AStormyou just didn't get functional programming14:39
AStormit's like math14:39
gimmalAStorm: nah, that wasn't the issue; was trying to do too much with cl heh14:39
gimmalcan't even bother with java <:^)>14:39
AStormyeah, CL needs strong libs14:39
AStormas it's very basic on its own14:40
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gimmaljava doesn't have metaclass/metaobject support like CL with MOP, that limits its functionality to a large extent, but it's still a very usable language14:40
gimmalwell, to say it  limits its functionality, come to think of it, I think that's nonsense. java can't be java and have MOP support, I wonder14:40
AStormIt can be, look at Python. It's Java done (almost) right14:41
AStormit could use some more static typing sometimes14:41
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AStormRuby is even more OOP, but implementation sucks a bit14:42
gimmalwell, maybe, but MOP doesn't fit into java, though. there are no 'slot definitions' in java classes, just fields14:42
AStormno difference14:42
gimmalbig difference hehe14:42
AStormjust make another special marker, like "slot"14:42
gimmalever played around with extending CL MOP support?14:42
AStormthere is already static public final synchronized14:42
AStormNo, I wasn't that much into Lisp.14:43
gimmalMOP is a big, heavy architecture, fwiw; it kind of all depends on itself, even14:43
AStormoverdone I guess14:43
AStormnever used it14:43
gimmalmakes a challenge for CL VM builders - bootstrap code & what14:43
AStormin Python, metaclasses are nice and simple14:43
AStormand useful :D14:43
gimmalwell, I think it fits the bill pretty well, for common lisp. it's just that I can't get anywhere with common lisp programming, that's the main issue of that language, for me >^)14:44
gimmalGUI support in CL sucks, also. CLIM is barley "standardized", and not completely supported in the one FOSS impl of it14:45
AStormthat's the one reason I love Python - there are bindings14:45
AStormand it's fairly easy to write yours too14:45
gimmalcool; i haven't dabbled in python, but I've always heard well of it.14:46
gimmalas opposed to the nefarious PERL, muhahah14:46
AStormRuby is Perl done right14:47
gimmalcool; heard of ruby, been fraid of trying to pick up another progn language14:47
AStormif you need something really powerful, then C++ is still the way to go :|14:48
RST38hruby <-- kill14:48
RST38hgiven that all the eager idiots who advocated for Java do the same for ruby now, KILL14:49
AStormah, that, yes14:49
AStormthese people should be exterminated14:49
AStormthey tend to go to the next new thing14:49
AStormthen devastate it14:49
AStormPython avoided that fate due to strong leadership :P14:49
RST38hjava was bullshit to begin with14:49
RST38hnot sure about ruby14:49
AStormit is quite nice still14:50
RST38hbut the idea of salvation through interpreted language with slightly masqueraded pointers and a garbage collector was stupied14:50
RST38hLike some software engineering professor said, "If Java is then answer, then WHAT WAS THE QUESTION?"14:51
RST38hAStorm: JIT appeared later as a desperate attempt to improve Java performance14:51
AStormRST38h: original question was: we need a language to run on toasters14:51
RST38hAStorm: C.14:51
AStormand it should be secure14:51
AStormRST38h: fails the second point, sorry14:51
AStormit's inherently insecure14:51
RST38hWhen done correctly it does not14:51
AStormyou can't count on "done correctly" when hiring indians,14:52
AStormor chinese14:52
MangoFusionimo, use whatever you feel is best ;)14:53
AStormas of now, Java fails the first part of the question14:53
AStormit can barely run on the strongest of toasters14:53
AStormand that only when bastardized14:53
RST38hAll right.14:54
RST38hBut Java is not secure.14:55
RST38hIt is not portable ('cause stuff written for Java 1.2 often does not run on Java 1.2.2)14:55
AStormno no, it wasn't meant to be portable (originally)14:55
RST38hIt does not fit into a toaster (unless it is severely shrunk down J2ME and even THAT requires a decent CPU)14:55
AStormthat was added as an afterthought14:55
AStormRST38h: I said it fails14:56
AStormit is fairly secure with all that checking stuff it has built in14:56
RST38hNot really ;)14:56
AStormuhm, was14:56
AStormit fails all the time ;P14:56
* RST38h has seen a teenager bring down most systems with a Java applet14:56
RST38hAnd that teenager was stupid and did not even TRY to do it on purpose14:56
AStormyes, Java VM is buggy as hell14:57
AStormthat's what you get with scope creep14:57
AStormSun couldn't decide what to do with it14:58
AStormand the team desperately tried to get it out and have nice jobs ;P14:58
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* RST38h will not even mention the current size of Java runtime libraries15:01
RST38h(which also have to be maintained compatible across multiple platforms)15:01
AStormwell, size of Python runtime isn't much lower15:02
AStormbut it can easily be trimmed :>15:02
RST38hAt least Python is not being hyped as our ultimate salvation15:02
AStormnothing can save us except the death of incompetent coders15:03
wazdhey everybody :)15:03
RST38h"coder" is incompetent by definition15:03
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RST38has someone who "codes" instead of designing stuff15:04
wazdDoes anybody knows Reggie's Jabber/MSN/ICQ/ any IM?)15:04
AStormyeah, the real name is programmer15:04
AStormexcept in scene circles15:05
RST38hthose are "coders"15:08
* RST38h had to converse with a few - most of them do not understand what they do and just expect instant gratification15:09
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AStormwrong part of the scene I guess :>15:10
GAN800wazd, just pm him on itT?15:11
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RST38hold news15:51
RST38hnokia officially denied it since15:52
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lopzhow use the libgtkmozembed + python ?16:07
lopzimport gtkmozembed ?16:07
lopzmodule not found :(16:07
lopzany ideas ?16:07
rooperts38h: Where did Nokia deny it?16:08
glassand "may"16:09
glassof course it's possible that they'll use it in phones sometime16:09
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glassand the guy who said it was finance guy, who thought it was probably sexy to say something linux16:10
glasshe should have known better that it would be taken too seriously by a crapload of people though16:10
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thopiekarhi @ all... is there a way to develop programs for Maemo easier and faster as in this official howto-wiki
RST38hroope: a moment16:24
thopiekar... basicly with eclipse and sb ...16:24
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RST38hthopiekar: this depends on what you consider to be easier16:25
johnxthopiekar, I'm not sure, but have you looked at python?16:25
RST38hfor me, using eclipse is not "easier", it is pain.16:25
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lcukive found a nice way to devlop using gcc directly on the device and ssh/scp/komodoedit in windows and am very satisfied at being able to develop16:25
thopiekartoo but i think about an programm like programming vb6. (I learnd it at school)16:26
thopiekarin eclipse there is just a editor...16:26
lcukthopiekar, my komodoeditor is configured to give my c code colored like vb16:26
lcukthe editor "feels" like the visual basic 6 code editor and is very nice16:27
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thopiekarlcuk, can you directly look at what you are programmin'?? (,because it isn't possible at eclipse)16:28
lcukwhat do you mean? they are both source editors16:29
lcukor do you mean full breakpoints and interaction whilst running?16:29
thopiekara preview of your "programmed" window..16:29
lcukim not sure i get you16:30
RST38hthopiekar: do you mean debugger?16:33
johnxthopiekar, can you link to a screenshot?16:34
thopiekarone moment please ;)16:35
johnxthopiekar, so, something like this: ?16:39
thopiekarjohnx yeah thx16:40
thopiekarare there more applications?16:40
johnxI think you can use glade, then modify it a bit to use hildon on the tablet16:41
thopiekarthanks.. there was a porting-to-maemo howto on ;)16:42
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drwxh, I'm trying o install maemo 4 sdk on ubuntu hardy: I have this error : Sub-process /scratchbox/devkits/debian-etch/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)16:44
drwxcan you help me?16:44
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thopiekarstrange i had no problems16:44
thopiekardo you used the scripts?16:44
drwxI'm re-trying it16:45
thopiekarcan you post the outputs??16:45
lcukthopiekar, i think the form layout view you posted would be better on the device itself ;)16:46
drwxI lost it16:46
thopiekarlcuk, howto??16:48
lcuknot yet, but what better method can you think for laying out graphical objects than with your tablet itself?16:49
thopiekari think there was a "little" how to on maemo.org16:49
thopiekarusing ssh16:49
johnxlcuk, maybe using xephyr on the PC?16:49
thopiekaror this way^^16:50
lcukmy pc isnt touchscreen though16:50
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thopiekaryou can use you pc-mouse instead of you pen or finger...16:51
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thopiekardrwx, have you installed scratchbox??16:52
thopiekar.. and which script gives out this errror code??16:53
drwxthopiekar: I installed scratchbox with this:,  and I try to install to install maemo 4 with : maemo-sdk-install_4.0.1.sh16:57
drwxI have a lot of error this kind : dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of osso-games-startup:16:58
drwx osso-games-startup depends on libhildonfm2 (>= 1:1.9.46); however:16:58
drwxPackage libhildonfm2 is not configured yet.16:59
RST38hKomodo is not free right?16:59
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lcukedit is, ide isnt16:59
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lcuki only use edit cos compilation is via console window17:00
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thopiekardrwx, login in into scratchbox and remove your targets17:00
lcukit was no different in my linux vmware17:00
thopiekardrwx, ... then use the maemo-sdk script to reinstall it17:00
lcukbut now because im compiling directly on device cutting out the scratchbox step i can use windows as primary editing arena :)17:01
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lcukand when i change to linux or mac i can continue as well17:01
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drwxthopiekar: I must use ?17:02
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drwxthopiekar:  I have the message : You cannot remove the active target! Select another target first17:06
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thopiekardrwx try to make a "dummy"-target... with any configurations... then remove the last target17:09
thopiekarwhen you are finished with the reinstallation then you can remove the dummy-target again^^17:10
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drwxok, I think there is a dependency problem on maemo repository17:12
drwxI dont see another possibility17:17
summatusmentisalright, what's the first thing I should do upon getting my N810? I've been told the OS on it will be out of date17:19
johnxsummatusmentis, yup, flash to the latest OS200817:19
summatusmentisthen it's just a matter of installing wanted apps17:20
summatusmentisor probably in my case, setting up a debian chroot17:20
summatusmentisonce the debian chroot is set up, do the apps still run under the normal nokia interface?17:21
summatusmentisor will I need to give up the interface, and run the standard nokia apps under kde3?17:21
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johnxyou just chroot into debian, export DISPLAY=:0 and run the app17:22
summatusmentiscan that be setup automatically?17:22
johnxyes, with a very short script, and a .desktop file to make it show up in the menu17:23
summatusmentisthe other option would be to boot into debian with kde. Could I then do the reverse into maemo?17:23
johnxhmm...I'm not positive how well that would work for all apps17:24
johnxit's worth a try17:25
* RST38h installed radare on Ubuntu but then deleted it17:25
RST38hway too eleet17:25
* johnx googles17:26
summatusmentisjohnx: so if I ran debian, I'd have to only use the debian stuff17:26
johnxsummatusmentis, you might be able to get the OS2008 stuff running in a chroot with a little effort17:26
johnxalso, there is an effort to get the open source parts of maemo packaged up for Debian17:27
summatusmentisI'm just looking at all options, I don't know what I'm going to need from OS200817:27
johnxEventually that should pick up a bit when Ubuntu Mobile stuff starts shipping I think17:27
johnxsummatusmentis, the real question is what do you *need* from Debian17:28
johnxRST38h, for a hex editor that looks like overkill. I use "hexedit"17:29
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summatusmentisjohnx: so you're suggesting I keep OS2008, and chroot the debian stuff17:29
RST38hjohnx: what killed it in my eyes is the lack of interactivity17:29
RST38hit uses command line, even inside a gui, and most commands are obscure17:29
johnxsummatusmentis, I'm asking what you *need* from Debian that can't be easily repackaged for Os200817:29
RST38hI have not found how to do simple things (running a program or stepping it)17:29
summatusmentisjohnx: that's just it, I have no idea17:30
RST38hAnd the display gets garbled when radare tries to draw too many arrows17:30
* RST38h is wondering if there is a unix version of IDA ;)17:30
johnxsummatusmentis, I use OS2008 for every day stuff and find it fairly complete17:30
summatusmentisjohnx: partially the full debian system, but I'm not sure about that :)17:30
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summatusmentisI like the idea of having full linux, and not busybox, on the N81017:33
johnxYou can get coreutils for OS200817:33
summatusmentisand of KDE, but I gather that can be run inside of OS2008?17:33
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johnxthere are trade-offs either way17:33
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johnxyou trade usability for features no matter what17:34
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RST38hOS2008 is pretty decent, whatever "not debian" crowd is saying17:34
summatusmentisRST38h: no, I agree, I've played with it17:34
summatusmentisI'm a fan of debian, I must say :)17:35
* johnx likes OS2008 just fine :)17:35
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drwxthopiekar: I re-tryed installing maemo from the script, I have the same error : dpkg: dependency problems prevent configuration of fontconfig: fontconfig depends on gconf2 (>= 2.6.0); however:Package gconf2 is not configured yet.17:35
lcuki am of the opinion that tablet software should not be a direct clone of the desktop application.  the interaction is different and should be catered for correctly17:35
RST38hlcuk: no argument here17:36
summatusmentislcuk: I sort of agree, but I would like full functionality17:36
summatusmentisI don't want apps to be 'lightened' or cut down17:36
RST38hsumma: in many cases you can't have full functionality17:36
RST38hin other cases, you can't have full functionality on the desktop17:36
johnxlcuk, it depends on the situation, and as I'm sure you know: modification takes time and effort17:36
summatusmentisRST38h: fair enough17:36
timtomOn OS2008, can I use dbus tricks with to do some weird stuff with microb? I can close/open a window... but what else? I want to save the current page with touching me screen :D17:36
lcukno arguments there johnx :)17:36
RST38hNumpty Physics or MyPaint are good examples of packages that work better on a tablet17:36
summatusmentisperhaps I'm too demanding :)17:36
thopiekardrwx try to remove everything (sb, too) with:17:37
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thopiekarsudo apt-get remove scratchbox17:37
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johnxRST38h, Vagalume too :D17:37
summatusmentisVagalume is compat. app right?17:39
RST38hVagalume runs just fine on the desktop17:39
RST38hNo problem there17:39
lcukif the desktop applciations were created and designed with an extended resolution range and intelligently folded up the fluff leaving enough room to work cleanly no matter what resolution then we wouldnt be having this conversation17:39
johnxRST38h, but it's more *useful* on the tablet. I can poke it with my finger and drag my tablet it around while I'm doing dishes or whatever. On my desktop I might as well use a different music app.17:40
summatusmentislcuk: that's fair17:40
summatusmentisand there is no MS format compatable tools, is that correct? abiword/gnumeric, or, or something?17:41
lcukim enjoying this tablet because im building from the ground up :) the results of it would appear to scale upwards better than trying to fit a large program in a small box17:41
lcukthere is apparantly an abiword compatible editor from the abiword guys (ie a butdown abiword) available somewhere17:42
summatusmentisand that'll probably read .doc but not .docx, correct?17:42
johnxlcuk, Good. That's very much "the Unix way." Somewhere along the line a lot of people who write desktop Linux software seem to have lost sight of that and included everything (plus the kitchen sink)17:43
summatusmentisok, I'll look around once I get the device17:43
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fnordianslipin case anyone wondered, installing webmin on chinook isn't entirely starightforward17:48
fnordianslipthe install got bogged down in the post-install scripts and it couldn't fork any more processes17:49
fnordiansliphowever, the uninstaller seems to run ok ;-)17:49
fnordiansliperm, i mean't straightforward instead of that other 'word'17:49
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drwxI want to record a sound a N810 using this methode: . but there is no /dev/audi on maemo what is the equivalent?18:03
lcukanyone know if hypercard has been built for maemo?18:05
summatusmentiswhat is hypercard?18:05
blafaselHypercard, the apple stack stuff?18:06
qwerty12lcuk, run it in the mac emulator18:06
GAN8001Is that a serious question, lcuk?18:06
blafaselWell, Haypercard made the slashdot frontpage today ;)18:06
GAN8001Gawd, I remember playing with train simulations in hypercard back in the mid 90s18:06
blafaseland brought back quite some fond memories18:06
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lardmandrwx: see how's it's done in here:
lcukyer but ive just got back from holiday after making hundreds of small sketches and am trying to code them together and after reading about it on slash im thinking at least some of the work has been done and i wanted to have a look at how it felt in maemo to see if it fits with a touch environment18:08
ProteousI remember making games in hypercard18:08
lcuk(my liqbase lets me create and save and manipulate notes and sketches)18:08
Proteousand flipbook type animations18:08
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pupnik_sketches of what?18:09
lcukparagraphs of notes and ideas and bits for the presentation18:10
lcukand doodles and whatever i would normally scribble onto a notepad18:10
lcuki want to keep them all and tag them and have ideas evolve out of them18:10
* lardman thinks that Nokia should definitely have video out in the next tablet - and a slide show app too18:11
Proteousyou need magic18:11
freelikegnudoes ukmp use mplayer for audio files as well as video?18:12
GAN8001I want that USB VGA magic to become usable.18:12
lardmanGAN8001: do you have a link to the hw?18:12
lcukspeaking of video out, i think i need to make a couple of short movies for presentation18:13
lcuklardman, pupnik, do we know what kind of presentation tech we have available?18:14
pupnik_a projector is given, dunno what model18:14
GAN8001lcuk, maemopad+? xournal?18:14
timtomI'll anwer my own question, for the records18:14
timtom#define OSSO_BROWSER_SAVE_URL_REQ    "save_url"18:14
blafasellardman: Like the stuff the beta labs from Nokia presented?18:14
lcukmaemopad doesnt feel right, its not quick enough and besides - i want to draw AND/OR type at the same time - theres no reason why i cant do both18:15
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lardmanwill there be a computer of some description, as I wasn't planning on bringing a laptop?18:15
lardmanblafasel: I thought that was VNC over the network?18:15
qwerty12No, I think that was NoBounds.18:16
RST38hWhy make a single application for both drawing and typing - escapes me18:16
GAN8001lardman, see my post here for a link to the hardware and pictures.18:16
lcukbecause i have a touchscreen and keyboard together and both things to with each other18:16
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GAN8001lcuk, maemopad+ is open source.18:16
lcukyes i know18:16
lcukalso, a treeview for viewing the notes isnt great, i want to fit as much on screen as possible18:17
GAN8001Oh, right, the link:
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lardmanGAN8001: which post out of interest? I've just had a look though the backlog and can't see any urls18:18
lardmanthanks :)18:19
GAN8001Sin of omission. :P18:19
lardmanlooks cool18:20
GAN8001It's slow as shit at the moment with X.18:20
blafaselRight, I was talking about the nobounds concept.18:20
GAN8001FBReader took about 10 seconds to render completely18:20
* lardman looks to see how much the hw costs18:20
lardmanGAN8001: urgh18:20
GAN8001Faster with plain image display (the horses)18:21
GAN8001So it would make for a decent presentation system.18:21
lardmanI've got to pop to the shops before they close, will have a look when I get back ~30min18:22
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GAN8001I paid $8018:24
GAN8001Is the slightly cheaper model.18:24
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GAN8001Maybe somebody will have one already that they can bring.18:25
drwxdo you know if there is  way to get a /dev/audi on maemo?18:25
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straind`I was hoping there might be an Audi in maemo. :(18:27
qwerty12I want my spinnin wheels :p18:28
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GAN8001Audi sux18:29
GAN8001Lame Quattro18:30
freelikegnuigee thats not a troll18:30
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johnxThe Audio Quattro was a cool car :P18:33
drwxI see a /dev/dsptask/audiopp, it might be what I need?18:33
johnxdrwx, what do you want? an OSS audio device? an alsa device?18:33
GAN8001johnx, I was referring to the AWD system, not the actual car. :P18:34
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johnxGAN800, AWD in general or Audi's implementation?18:34
drwxjohnx: I made a program to record a sound like this way : fd_audio = open ("/dev/audio", O_RDONLY))18:35
drwxand I want to use it on N80018:35
johnxdrwx, hmm...sorry I have no idea O_o18:35
blafaselI like my Audi quite a lot ;-)18:36
RST38hdrw: you are fucked.18:36
qwerty12Front or Back?18:36
GAN8001In general, real men drive RWD.18:36
RST38hboth ways.18:36
RST38hGAN: Real men drive whatever doesn't skid too much.18:37
RST38hWhich, unless you are driving on ice, is AWD...18:37
GAN8001Rear-wheel drive, blafasel.18:37
johnxGAN800, I like RWD too, but AWD is nice in the snow. Sometimes 2 wheels just isn't enough18:37
drwxRST38h: why?18:37
GAN8001No arguments here, but I don't drive in snow—ever. ;)18:37
johnxGAN800, Real men drive in the snow :P18:38
RST38hdrwx: no accessible audio device on Maemo18:38
RST38hdrwx: have to use ESD18:38
blafaselAh.. Google led me to polish aircrafts called RWD. Misleading ;-p18:38
RST38hGAN: See? No real man =)18:38
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GAN8001AWD is understeer city, anyway.18:38
drwxRST38h: that's a shame!18:39
johnxGAN800, yeah.18:39
freelikegnujohnx do you know if does a2dp work with ukmp18:39
* johnx wants a skyline :/18:39
* GAN8001 wants an E30 M3.18:39
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johnxfreelikegnu, if ukmp can use mplayer for playback, then yes18:39
RST38hdrwx: firebomb Nokia hq18:39
freelikegnuit seems to use mplayer for video18:40
freelikegnunot sure what it uses for playing mp3 and other audio files18:40
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johnxfreelikegnu, IIRC you can change it in settings?18:40
drwxRST38h: violence is not the solution... :-D18:40
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freelikegnuheh I could not find the ukmp settings file18:41
freelikegnudoesnt seem to be in gconf either18:41
GAN8001You'll change your tune after the great trout-walloping expedition of summer 2008 brings us an all-open OMAP3 tablet.18:41
GAN8001. . . and user-selectable 12/24h time18:41
wolfspiritHas anyone got awt working under jalimo or any other java implementation on the nokia?18:41
* qwerty12 is fine with 12h18:42
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lcukim not, i keep thinking ive coded till dawn18:42
crashanddieI'll take a Ferrari California GT, or my dream car, a Shelby GT... The old ones... Though I have to say, I do love the M6 too18:42
crashanddiebtw, any word on Diablo yet ?18:42
GAN8001New cars are getting a little out of hand.18:42
GAN8001Overweight and way to automated.18:42
johnxGAN800++ O_o18:43
infobotGAN8001 meant: Overweight and way too automated.18:43
johnxGAN800, half the time I think I'll end up getting VW Beetle18:43
crashanddieWell, electronics is good... I mean, I wouldn't want to have to drive a Ford GT without any driving aids in a pedestrian zone...18:43
GAN8001Although most of the weight can be attributed to safety features. :P18:43
lcuklike bullbars?18:43
crashanddieThere's only one condition needed: you have to be able to turn it off18:43
johnxGAN800, and stupid stuff like electricly adjusted seats :P18:44
lcukdon't wanna scratch the painwork with an errant pedestrian18:44
GAN8001crashanddie, this is true, but I'm thinking more along the lines of stupid transmission technologies.18:44
crashanddieIf you guys want a car that bumps it up a bit, not too flashy, and not too expensive, without all the bullshit useless electronics features, get a Vauxhall Monaro18:44
GAN8001The horrifying "GTO" abortion state-side. <_<18:45
GAN8001Pontiac would probably have been OK if they didn't try and cash in on the GTO name with it. . . .18:45
crashanddieit's about £35k, so that's affordable18:45
GAN8001But there aint nothin' GTO about a Monaro.18:46
glassold cars have old tech.. i love classic cars but wouldn't want to daily drive with them18:46
johnxcrashanddie, sorry, $3500 is affordable to me :P18:46
GAN8001Most definitely, glass.18:46
GAN8001I'll keep my Camry as the daily-driver. ;)18:46
crashanddiejohnx, lol...18:46
crashanddiejohnx, that's the price of my bike :P18:46
glasssuspension, engine power etc are often pretty crap in classics18:46
johnxglass, true enough about suspension18:47
crashanddiejohnx, well, no... my bike is 3.5keuro18:47
johnxmy 96 subie impreza wagon was ~$400018:47
johnx(in 2006)18:48
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GAN8001itT has just been a complete and total write-off this weekend.18:49
johnxGAN800, I picked a good couple days to be AFK then :D18:49
eichiis there a nice software for geocaching?18:49
GAN8001Some asshole is always guaranteed to come in with their ill-informed opinions in threads like the itTSS one and derail it just as it starts becoming useful and productive.18:50
johnxGAN800, ITTSS?18:51
johnxI missed the "acronym of the week" memo...18:51
GAN8001Oh, you missed that one?18:51
* GAN8001 is envious.18:51
johnxeichi, geopoi maybe?18:51
crashanddieGAN800 & johnx:
summatusmentisgeopoi was what was mentioned on the wiki18:52
GAN8001Steel yourself, johnx.18:52
johnxGAN800, I'm beyond have no idea18:52
* qwerty12 really doesn't give 2 shits about the administration side of maemo, filing bugs, new download locations etc. I just go on there for the apps, games etc.18:52
johnxGAN800, ah, forum drama?18:52
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GAN8001Really, everything should be in Extras/Extras-devel18:53
GAN8001I don't ever want to have to open a web browser for software.18:53
GAN8001johnx, I <3 forum drama. I'm almost guaranteed to pick up 30 or 40 thanks when I jump in. :D18:53
GAN8001Thanks! == discount code. . . .18:53
GAN8001crashanddie, hot stuff.18:54
johnxcould we get an automated extras repo -> rss feed?18:54
johnxcause that would be awesome18:54
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gourdinwhen is planed the next n8x0 os ?18:54
summatusmentisGAN8001: how does thanks == discount code?18:54
GAN8001Diablo is coming out in a month or two, gourdin.18:54
freelikegnugah now my n800 is rebooting half way through startup :(18:54
gourdinGAN8001: great :)18:55
GAN8001summatusmentis, karma factors into discount code distribution.18:55
qwerty12What did you change :p18:55
summatusmentisalso, is there a way to find changes between diablo and current?18:55
freelikegnuqwerty I intalled some apps since last startup18:55
summatusmentisGAN8001: discount code distribution is built into ITT?18:55
GAN8001johnx, basically, we talked Reggie out of duplicating all the effort and fragmenting things and syndication Downloads/Garage18:55
crashanddiefreelikegnu, you didn't apt-get update && apt-get upgrade, did you ?18:55
GAN8001No, summatusmentis.18:55
qwerty12freelikegnu, You don't have bootmenu installed by any chance?18:55
GAN8001But it'll help.18:56
johnxsummatusmentis, maybe a simple shell script involving diff and a nice person running diablo?18:56
crashanddieGAN800, is there a thanks/post ratio involved ?18:56
freelikegnuqwerty12: no boot menu installed :P18:56
crashanddieGAN800, cuz I've posted like what... 2 times, and have 8 thanks... So that's a ratio a 4... :D18:56
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summatusmentisjohnx: I'm just wondering if feature improvements will be made, that's all18:56
dererkHi ppl! :)18:56
GAN8001Thanks are a recent addition18:56
freelikegnucrashanddie: I didnt use apt-get recently18:56
simbossguys, Iam trying to install meamo-pc-connectivity18:56
dererkDo you know if Firefox3 port to MicroB is already available?18:57
GAN8001So there's a lot of 2005-2007 members who have a lots of posts pre-thanks.18:57
simbossbut it fails since it seems to need *fuse libs?18:57
gourdindoes diablo have an official website ?18:57
simbosswhere can I get them=18:57
johnxsummatusmentis, not many18:57
GAN8001What, dererk?18:57
qwerty12simboss, add the maemo sdk+ repo18:57
summatusmentisjohnx: fair enough18:57
GAN8001MicroB is based on Gecko a118:57
freelikegnuguess I'll have to reflash :P18:57
qwerty12I had to do some more hacking to get the maemo-pc-connectivity to install under diablo :/18:57
crashanddiejohnx, we're gonna get the "Easy Update" feature, right ?18:57
GAN8001gourdin, :P18:57
summatusmentisI need to just get my mahine already, so that I can stop asking innane questions, and instead just try stuff out18:58
johnxcrashanddie, yup...after one more flash :)18:58
crashanddiejohnx, because for me, that's all that counts, tbh18:58
dererkGAN800, Uhm, I was almost sure MicroB was based on Mozilla browser18:58
GAN8001gourdin, see the Internet Tablet OS wikipedia article for more details.18:58
crashanddiejohnx, plus, after that, updates might be easier to schedule for the team, I guess18:58
GAN8001dererk, it's based on Gecko, which is the Mozilla rendering engine.18:58
gourdinGAN8001: ok, thx :)18:58
simbossqwerty12: this one
* GAN8001 considers fleshing that out more.18:58
dererkGAN800, then my question was not all that wrong :P18:59
GAN8001Anybody have a link to konttori's recent interview handy?18:59
GAN8001dererk, I just didn't understand the question18:59
qwerty12simboss, check out , thanks to wolf0818:59
GAN8001I wasn't correcting you, just trying to clarify things. :P18:59
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dererkGAN800, :)19:01
simbossqwerty12: I am following that tutorial, but the app manager keeps complaining about missing mount-full!!19:01
dererkI was told it was already available somewhere for N81019:01
qwerty12simboss, Look into editing the dpkg "status" file. Too tired to explain more.19:02
GAN8001It's bundled with OS2008.19:02
simbossqwerty12: thx :-)19:02
GAN8001You may also be thinking of the Minefield port or the Fennec mobile mozilla, neither of which are particularly usable at the moment.19:03
dererkGAN800, not the Firefox3 port19:03
dererkGAN800, (it's already ff rc1)19:03
dererkGAN800, did you try it?19:03
GAN8001I have previously19:04
GAN8001Not suited for a touchscreen interface19:04
GAN8001and Fennec is crash-happy.19:04
GAN8001We're probably 1-2 years away from a really polish Fennec.19:05
dererkI found terrifying horrible slowly my microb19:05
GAN8001Anybody remember the official designation for Diablo? OS2008 Maintence Upgrade or somesuch19:05
infobotdererk meant: I find terrifying horrible slowly my microb19:05
GAN8001dererk, did you have Fit View to Width on?19:05
GAN8001MicroB works just fine here.19:05
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crashanddieYeah, I'd love a microb that works a bit faster19:09
GAN8001crashanddie, try the svn?19:09
GAN8001It a pretty decent improvement.19:09
crashanddiecuz having it run in circles for 20 seconds saying "connecting" is pretty slow, and kinda kills surfing for me19:09
GAN8001Anybody, konttori's interview or the official name for Diablo?19:10
crashanddieGAN800, linky link ?19:10
crashanddieyeah found something19:11
crashanddieI'll try it later on, really nice improvement ?19:11
crashanddiecuz I have FiOS, and it feels like I'm still in Dialup19:11
blafaselNavi: Still needing a mirror for those files?19:12
GAN8001Largely, yes19:12
GAN8001Little buggier in some ways19:12
blafasel(Post is 20 days old, so I guess the answer is "no")19:12
GAN8001But scrolling is smooth as silk.19:12
crashanddieGAN800, that would be perfect, tbh19:12
crashanddieGAN800, thanks, I'll check it out19:12
qwerty12GAN8001, Do you know if Navi compiled the latest latest SVN? I really need it on my Diablo :/19:13
GAN8001btw, the Connecting bouncing is usually due to your router not playing nice with wifi powersaving.19:13
GAN8001qwerty12, I don't know if it's been updated since he compiled it.19:13
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qwerty12Ah, ok.19:14
qwerty12I can't use that build because I have a feeling it won't play nice with browserd19:14
qwerty12I learnt my lesson when I tried osso-xterm built for chinook in diablo.19:14
lcuklardman, did you reach the shops - i almost had to do a milk run ;)19:15
konttoriThere's the link19:15
lardmanlcuk: yep, Waitrose is open 'till 5 thankfully19:15
crashanddieGAN800, I don't think my router has powersaving19:15
lcukgood, next wekk, this sit down dinner, is it black tie and do we need to book tickets in advance?19:16
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crashanddieI get a whole lot of "undefined" on that website19:16
lardmanlcuk: lol to black tie, I hope not19:16
lcuksame here, we could wear penguin suits i suppose19:16
lardmanlcuk: Are there any specifics about it yet?19:16
GAN8001The N8x0 does, crashanddie.19:17
lcuklol @ that comment ^19:17
lcuk<GAN8001> The N8x0 does crashanddie.19:17
GAN8001Beautiful, thanks, crashanddie.19:17
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qwerty12lcuk, lol19:18
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crashanddienot worse than "<crashanddie> I'm going to be Moonlit's Wii"19:19
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qwerty12Wii is a stupid name though.19:19
GAN8001Wii is awesome.19:19
crashanddieit's an excellent name19:19
lcuki like the small detail that the motes have poo in their product code19:19
qwerty12I think it sounds shit. Get me  PS3/X360 so I can play GTAIV19:19
crashanddieI have the Wii, and a PS3... We will spend some time on GTA IV or GT5:P, but when I have a few friends around, it's Wii all the time...19:20
GAN8001Wii60 is the way to go.19:20
crashanddieNothing like Mario Kart to goof around19:20
GAN8001Wii for Nintendo's awesome innovative stuff and the social games19:20
GAN8001360 for the hardcore stuff19:20
lcukcrashanddie, but theres a lot more people around who just want to have fun with whole family and nintendo have tapped that market19:20
crashanddie"Wii was really meant for we, but that's doesn't my Mii isn't me"19:21
qwerty12GAN8001, +1 :)19:21
qwerty12Although I don't mind PS3 too.19:21
crashanddielcuk, that's exactly what I said, didn't I ?19:21
GAN8001PS3 pretty much has zero appeal to me.19:21
lcuksorry, misread end19:21
GAN8001Funnily enough, I was gong through my 360 games the other day and all but 1 is rated M.19:22
crashanddieI mean, the Wii is basically just bringing games to a social level again...19:22
lcukps3 as a technology concept is very interesting, but it seems like too much right now19:22
GAN8001and that's Forza 2.19:22
crashanddieAnd I'm not talking about social as in "Lan party social CS or War3"19:22
GAN8001Sony lost all of their exclusives to the 360.19:22
GAN8001and a Playstation without its exclusives is just a joke.19:22
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lcukmost people still dont have full HD entertainment systems and a wii on a smallish portable in bedroom rocks19:22
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blafaselcrashanddie: Might be me, but I don't like seeing 2 to 4 people a) ruining the living room trying to play a tennis-like game or b) boxing like a new kind of star wars kid, Version 2.0 ;)19:23
* GAN8001 plays his 360 on an old 17" Trinitron.19:23
lcukthough if i did have a big entertainment system i wouldnt like the idea of the kids throwing deadly motes around19:23
qwerty12I guess HD is out of the question then?19:23
GAN8001blafasel, you just aren't much fun, are you? :P19:23
crashanddiewell, I have "the full HD experience", and that's why I got the PS3 in the first place... It's a great DVD upscaler, plus it gives me access to HD content, without investing in yet another HTPC19:23
blafaselGAN8001: Never.19:23
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lcukwe have a main tv thats only 26 inches19:24
GAN8001Speaking of HD, Microsoft really got it right with h.264 streaming to the 360.19:24
lcukno point in hd19:24
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crashanddieI got myself a nice 40" FullHD screen, the PS3 was a no-brainer after that19:24
GAN8001My family got a 30" sharp in 2003.19:25
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GAN80011024x768 16:919:25
GAN8001Been replaced 3 times so far19:25
crashanddiethough, I understand why bluray has such a hard time taking off19:25
* GAN8001 is very thankful we got the warranty19:25
GAN8001Keeping up with about every second generational upgrade with a new warranty-paid TV19:25
crashanddiebetween VHS and DVD, there was a huuuuge difference... Between DVD and Bluray, the difference is not that big...19:26
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GAN8001crashanddie, I'm betting IPTV/OnDemand/Netflix/AppleTV type stuff will take off more than Bluray19:26
AStormIt seems new kernel... works!19:26
AStormwifi loaded too19:26
GAN8001AStorm, any speed improvements with new scheduler?19:26
AStormGAN8001: wait, the system has to load19:27
crashanddieGAN800, I have HD over IP, through my ISP... So yeah, I really understand what you're saying19:27
AStormit's now showing the "hands" logo19:27
AStormnow a white screen, wait19:27
qwerty12Then KABOOM19:27
AStormit seems that auto updates slow down boot process considerably19:27
GAN8001crashanddie, we bought an AppleTV for my mother last Christmas19:27
AStormI'd have to disable this bling bling19:27
GAN8001My dad and I rented The Darjeeling Limited in HD about a month ago19:27
AStormor have manual update support turned on19:27
GAN8001That's some hot shit.19:27
AStormit's probably spamming dmesg19:27
GAN8001Easy, looks great, works great, price is right.19:28
crashanddieGAN800, my ISP gives me a 100Mbit/50Mbit internet connection, 2 TV sets that can access 500 channels, about 100 of those in HD, and direct access to youtube/dailymotion/yahoo video/other major video websites directly on my TV, plus access to my whole media library on the network...19:29
blafaselAppleTV would be neat if it supported displaying on a TFT as well. I don't own a TV ;)19:29
crashanddieGAN800, in total, I can watch 4 different HD streams at one given time (2 tvs, plus 2 on computers)19:29
GAN8001blafasel, AppleTV would be neat if it weren't crippled to death.19:29
GAN8001It doesn't particularly appeal to me19:29
GAN8001but for my parents. . . .19:29
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GAN8001Dead easy is important.19:30
n800ni got a neuros osd19:30
crashanddiePlus also a phone with unlimited communications to half the world... Plus SIP access to use that phoneline from the n810 (so I can call the whole world as soon as I have wifi :D)19:30
n800n> appletv19:30
crashanddieGAN800, wanna know the price ?19:30
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GAN8001Because it's just going to make me sad.19:30
crashanddiethere is just one, big, huge, downside to all this19:31
GAN8001We're $110 for 15/2 + HD Cable + unlimited phone19:31
forge2gb monthly limit ?19:31
crashanddieYou have to live in France...19:31
crashanddieanyway, gotta bring the sis back to her place, bbl, cheers19:32
RST38hcrashanddie: Do you also get a community network with hundreds of pirated movies mp3 and programs?19:32
blafaselcrashanddie: That's too big of a downside, unfortunately ;)19:32
crashanddieRST38h, well, we have access to what they call "FreeHomeVideo", which is in fact a Youtube clone within the ISP users community19:32
crashanddieRST38h, and needless to say, prime access to newsgroups19:32
RST38hdoes not count19:33
RST38hcause we get pirated stuff in DVD or HD quality =)19:33
crashanddieand I have no shit like some US ISPs, where you have to pay extra for having all yours ports usable or whatever, nor any downloading/uploading restriction19:33
RST38hWell, US ISP, cable, cellular service is more or less like in that "Brazil" movie19:35
GAN8001To anybody considering a HAVA, my recommendation is to buy.19:36
n800ni don't have cable19:36
konttoriGAN8001: what did you need the interview fore?19:36
qwerty12Then you wouldn't be considering :p19:36
RST38hNASA TV Live coverage of the Phoenix landing on Mars begins at 6 p.m. EDT on Sunday, May 25  !!!19:36
GAN8001konttori, I was using it as a reference for the wikipedia section on Diablo and SSU19:37
konttoriah. ok.19:37
GAN8001RST38h, hrm, I've got that in HD.19:38
blafaselGAN8001: Do you own the Hava stuff?19:38
RST38hGAN8001: =)19:38
GAN8001I bought a Platinum19:38
konttoriGAN8001: good summary.19:38
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RST38hI guess watching it in HD from here would screw up everybody's nightly porn downloads =)19:39
GAN8001Don't do that19:39
GAN8001riots might ensue.19:39
RST38hnaah, they will just blame it on the weather19:39
RST38hsummer thunderstorms are starting19:39
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GAN8001I need to get myself a few more power adapters.19:40
blafaselGAN8001: I found that interesting, but I don't think that I can use it.19:40
GAN80016, apparently, isn't enough.19:40
summatusmentisanyone here use KDE?19:40
qwerty12Used to19:41
summatusmentiswhy'd you stop?19:41
keesjI used to on the desktop19:41
summatusmentisoh, no, i meant on the N8x0 series19:41
qwerty12summatusmentis, Because I wanted to remove it to make sure it wouldn't intefere with diablo upgrade (I used old method) and I prefer to use the space for Debian19:41
GAN8001blafasel, I don't have cable up at college, so I'm planning on hijacking some from home. ;)19:41
summatusmentisqwerty12: oh, ok. But it was usable?19:42
blafaselGAN8001: I don't have cable or sat, so no way to feed it..19:42
qwerty12summatusmentis, Kinda. Watchdog would reboot my N800 a lot under high cpu.19:42
blafaselUsing DVB-T sometimes on a PC via USB..19:42
summatusmentisqwerty12: watchdog was the firewall thing, right?19:42
GAN8001I set up mediaserv on my server here at home, too19:42
GAN8001got plenty of upstream to use both remotely.19:42
summatusmentisqwerty12: what is watchdog then?19:43
qwerty12I wish GAN8001 came to my rescue here :P19:43
qwerty12"There are both hardware and software watchdogs / lifeguards that reboot the device in certain circumstances, e.g. excessive CPU usage; important process crashes; system lock up. (Feel free to expand/correct this vague and possibly inaccurate description. :-) )"19:43
qwerty12Copied from wiki19:43
lardmanGAN8001: have you worked out the frame update rate for your usb->vga adaptor?19:44
GAN8001summatusmentis, largely, a bad idea. ;)19:44
summatusmentisoh, so it's something built into the device, that makes sense19:44
summatusmentisGAN8001: which is, KDE?19:44
GAN8001lardman, no, I'm leaving that up to Graham.19:44
GAN8001I think it would work OK if you just had a bunch of jpegs, lardman.19:44
GAN8001It's slow with X, though.19:45
summatusmentissorry, I'm confused. Watchdog is a bad idea, yes?19:45
GAN8001It usually just causes more trouble than it prevents.19:45
summatusmentisI see.19:45
lardmanThe n810 usb connection is 12MBps isn't it?19:46
lardmani.e. usb1 full speed19:46
AStormthe patch fixing keyboard changed keycodes19:47
zapUSB device connection is USB 2.019:47
lardmanis it, oh ok19:47
zapI get 5Mb/s easily19:47
AStormso fanoush' menu doesn't work19:47
AStormI'll temporarily revert it19:48
lardmanthat's still within the boundaries of usb119:48
zapUSB 1.0 is 12 mega_b_it19:48
qwerty12AStorm, Edit the linuxrc and with new keycodes?19:48
zapI get 5 mega_byte_19:48
lardmanah, B then rather than b ;)19:48
GAN8001[12:47pm] <zap> I get 5M_b_/s easily19:48
GAN8001lardman, how fast does your device flash? :P19:49
zapwell I don't know how it's out there, but here we write Mb for megabyte :-P19:49
lardmanif it can push 5 megabytes per sec, then: (5)*1024*1024/(1024*768*2) = 3.3333319:49
lardmanzap: fair enough19:49
lardmanGAN8001: I never pay any attention to it ;)19:49
GAN8001zap, where is here? O_O19:50
zapI think it can do more than that, it's just that the SDHC card can't take more :)19:50
GAN8001That is retardedly confusing19:50
AStormqwerty12: except I don't know it yet19:50
GAN8001Do it the opposite way from everybody else? Good plan.19:50
zapbut don't confuse USB host with USB device19:50
lardmanI was just wondering what the theoretical bandwidth limit was for the usb connection19:50
AStormand will have to reflash a kernel with console support19:50
zaplardman: as far as I understand, you're meaning the USB Host on N81019:50
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zapand that one could be USB 1.019:51
lardmanGAN8001: tbh, I can never remember which is which either19:51
lardmanzap: yes19:51
GAN8001_B_ytes are bigger. :P19:51
GAN8001_b_its are smaller.19:51
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GAN8001Seriously, zap, where the hell do they use Mb for megabyte?19:52
lardmanyeah, I suppose that is easy enough to remember, I just think in terms of ASCII keycodes ;)19:52
GAN8001So I can avoid that place in the future. . . . :\19:52
qwerty12_b_its are smaller - I really misread that.19:52
RST38hGAN: Forums19:52
RST38hCan you make yourself avoid that place? =)19:52
GAN8001RST38h, :P19:52
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zapSome even write Mo for mega-octet19:53
GAN8001The place where Mb is used for megabyte and considered correct. ;)19:53
zapyou will want to avoid that place too, I think19:53
* Knirch will start using mB instead.19:54
RST38hNintendo used to do it all the time - "8 megabit cartridge", "16 megabit cartridge"19:54
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lardmanKnirch: milli-bytes?19:54
RST38hSomebody at their marketing decided that by using megabits they can make cartridges "look bigger"19:54
zapand some even don't know a kilobyte has 1000 bytes19:54
zapthey think that it's 1024 bytes :)19:55
RST38hzap: THAT is arguable19:55
Knirchlardman: mmm19:55
blafaselDon't start with miBytes or something19:55
Knirchzap: I'm not touching that discussion with a ten foot pole19:56
GAN8001mibibytes just piss me off.19:56
AStormdoesn't seem to boot properly19:56
AStormI'd need some ssh to see what's going on19:56
AStormand I'll get it ;)19:56
AStormwait, no, it booted some more19:56
AStormagain hands screen19:56
AStormprobably something isn't supported and spams dmesg19:57
AStormthat can really slow down boot19:57
RST38h"spamming dmesg" - nice19:57
RST38hthe last frontier for spammers, so to say19:58
AStormI'll leave it for some minutes, it might boot19:58
AStormin the meantime, I'll get ssh running while it boots20:00
* qwerty12 debates whether to set this up: . Quite a bit of programs :?20:00
AStorm                                                                   │ dragorn20:01
AStormargh, missed ;)20:01
glassqwerty12: more bt game controller supports would be nice in maemo20:02
AStormwhat for?20:02
AStormI'd like a remote more20:02
ProteousMapped at 0xfdeb500020:03
ProteousFound a Keylargo mac-io controller, rev: 3, mapped at 0xfde3500020:03
ProteousG3t v1agr4 4 less!20:03
ProteousPID hash table entries: 4096 (order: 12, 65536 bytes)20:03
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AStormheh, that's some dmesg spam ;P20:03
qwerty12glass, Yeah :). I'll see if I can take a look in :/20:03
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qwerty12Although I can't see no CONFIG_HIDRAW :/20:04
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glassqwerty12: just buttons is nice, not that many games where inertia support would do much good20:04
AStorminertia could be used for scrolling20:04
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dererkGAN8001, did you ever use svn microb?20:05
dererksvn's *20:05
GAN8001For a little while20:07
GAN8001I ask again, though, dererk, do you have Fit Width to View turned on?20:07
qwerty12Same here, then diablo was leaked :D20:07
konttoriglass: so, wiimote is not enough for you?20:07
GAN8001That'll seriously screw up the browser.20:07
dererkGAN8001, indeed20:08
konttoriglass: you could take a look at that code and add support for ps3 controller if you need to20:08
konttorishould be doable20:08
dererkbut it works exactly the same as if it wasn't20:08
AStormhuh, it booted to a progress bar... ?20:08
dererkGAN8001, as crashanddie said20:08
dererk<crashanddie> cuz having it run in circles for 20 seconds saying "connecting" is pretty slow, and kinda kills surfing for me20:09
dererkit's exactly the same for me20:09
AStormwith the same old initfs20:09
qwerty12konttori, I'm trying but it needs stuff done to kernel. Not like wiicontrol or cwiid :/20:09
AStormthus I don't know what happens ;P20:09
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AStormmaybe it's rewriting something on jffs220:09
qwerty12You really should set up bootmenu with framebuffer :/20:09
konttoriqwerty12: Isn't there any way to just map the stuff like wiicontrol does?20:10
GAN8001dererk, like I told crashanddie, that's usually an issue with your router.20:11
* konttori has again been programming today and is all the time expecting word completion for everything he writes. wii<tab> what the * why didn't it complete? :)20:11
GAN8001You could try turning of wifi powersaving on the N800 to see if it improves.20:11
dererkGAN8001, not at all!20:11
GAN8001(though battery life will suffer)20:11
qwerty12konttori, Not sure. According to people on the internet, you can use it fine over usb (it's an hid device) in linux but patch to kernel is needed for joystick20:11
dererkIt does not happen with other network utility20:11
GAN8001konttori, wouldn't that be wonderful? :D20:11
dererkit's just browser20:11
GAN8001dererk, my point still stands.20:12
konttoriqwerty12: ah. you want to actually use it as a joystick device.20:12
qwerty12I don't actually own a PS3 :P but I plan on plugging in my friends controller :/20:13
konttoriHmm.. you might want to ask for that on the maemo mailing list as well (to have the base level joystick support there so that 3rd parties could add support for BT controller devices.20:13
konttoriqwerty12: in the meanwhile, you should be able to map the buttons on the ps3 controller in the same manner as wiicontrol does.20:13
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konttoriAnd even one analog should be emulatable nicely as the mouse pointer.20:14
qwerty12Yeah :) I'll still work on the kernel patches though and plug in my friends controller sometime and see what I can do20:15
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konttorisounds cool.20:16
konttoriAnyway, I hope you can also convince the nokia kernel people to integrate your patches.20:16
qwerty12Well, the stock nokia 2.6.21 already has the USB fix applied to it "#define USB_VENDOR_ID_SONY0x054c20:16
qwerty12#define USB_DEVICE_ID_SONY_PS3_CONTROLLER0x0268"20:16
konttoriwould be cool to have by default20:16
konttoriah. cool20:16
qwerty12I wonder what would happen if someone plugs in PS3 controller over USB with stock kernel?20:16
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keesjlardman: the word goes around that you can deliver tickets for linuxtag20:18
dererkGAN8001, confirmed it's not.20:19
dererkit's just a microb problem/feature :)20:19
GAN8001Usually it is20:20
GAN8001Sometimes it's not20:20
* unixSnob wonders if anyone has heard of anyone getting vxworks on the NIT20:21
AStormthis ssh doesn't want to log in ;P20:22
AStormI wonder why20:22
AStormit doesn't respond to the normal "rootme" pass20:23
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AStormand not to my normal system one20:23
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AStormit has ssh and rpcbind20:25
AStormthe machine is alive, but I see a white screen20:25
AStormI'll better get a shell inside20:25
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HuLsHhello plp20:27
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HuLsHcan someone help me on something20:28
HuLsH ?20:28
AStormok, I'm in somehow20:28
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HuLsHi am using fm-radio app20:29
HuLsHand i whant to reinstall my os200820:29
HuLsHbut i cant find the way to somehow "export" the list of fm radio stations20:30
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HuLsHthat i inserted, so i dont need to type them in again20:30
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HuLsHany ideas ?20:31
HuLsHanyone ? :)20:31
summatusmentisis there anyone using a moto q for tethering their internet tablet?20:32
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HuLsHthy are all dead :)20:34
blafaselI'm so glad that this mobile shop here traded that god-damn Nokia phone for a different brand. Slimmer with more features = good.20:37
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AStormok, I get it20:38
AStormsomething with framebuffer doesn't work20:38
HuLsHit for sure may be :)20:39
AStormas the system is started20:39
AStormthe trick is how to debug that20:39
AStormah, cx3110x got a NULL pointer deref too ;P20:40
AStormor g_ether20:40
AStormlet me check20:40
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GAN8001Very carefully, AStorm. :P20:41
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AStormhmm, looks like it's g_ether and not cx3110x20:42
AStormno, 100% cs3110x ;P20:43
AStormit disappeared20:43
AStormmaybe it hanged due to that20:45
AStormI'll drop the driver for now20:45
* lardman ponders whether to spend too much money on a usb->vga adaptor20:48
GAN8001lardman, if you're going to use it for LinuxTag, find somebody else to bring one you can use20:48
keesjlardman: I tried to find one today but did not succeed20:48
GAN8001I wouldn't bother picking one up for yourself (well, at UK prices anyway :P) right now.20:48
AStormthe long boot delay is due to device waiting for dbus to settle20:49
lardmanyeah, they are expensive20:49
lardmannot specifically for LinuxTag - not enough time to debug it for that, but just for general hacking interest20:49
GAN8001Or maybe find somebody flying over from the states to grab you one.20:49
lardmanGAN8001: I'll be over there in July so I may do so myself20:49
zapHas anybody ever get g_ether play together with Windows on N810? Or it's vapourware?20:50
lardmanThey're not really dear, £65, but still makes you think twice20:50
inzastorm, still fighting with 2.6.25?20:50
AStorminz: sure20:50
AStormplease cap the nick correctly :>20:50
AStormit doesn't hl me otherwise20:50
lardmanzap: from my Zaurus days, have you used Linux.inf to "install" the rndis driver than Windows lacks?20:50
inzAStorm, sorry, being lazy when using a tablet to irc20:51
AStormwell, it seems the device booted fine, but I get a white screen only20:51
zaplardman: it's a bit complicated here since I don't use windows, it's one of my friends who can't get it to work :)20:51
AStormsomething is different20:52
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AStormI suspect there's some dri module20:52
AStormor something like it20:52
inzAStorm, you need serial console20:52
AStormno, I don't20:53
AStormI have ssh, doh20:53
AStormit has booted correctly20:53
AStormBUT there is just a white screen20:53
lardmanzap: hmm, not ideal. Point them to either the Linux kernel source tree Docs dir, or tell them to try this:
AStormXomap and all is running20:53
zaplardman: thank you, I'll do it20:53
AStormI guess I should ping the linux-omap ml about it20:53
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AStormalternatively, I need someone to build me Xfb20:54
practisevoodooanyone got popen2 working in python under os2008?20:54
lardmanzap: then it should just be a case of ifconfig on the N8x0 and Windows should recognise it (static IPs unless Windows has a working DHCP server); routing is a whole other matter....20:54
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lardmanzap: might be of interest20:56
zapyes, he followed that howto20:56
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zapwindoz does not see the connection20:57
lardmanSo he installed linux.inf?20:57
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ssvbhi lardman, have you been successful at mapping more than one page of memory for DSP on N8x0?20:57
zapno idea, trying to get an answer from him :)20:57
zapI was just interested if that works at all20:58
lardmanthe official page looks like the best bet for instructions:
lardmanssvb: hi20:58
lardmanssvb: I've been away, not tried anything20:58
AStormok, where do I get the Debian X server?20:58
AStormthe one which works on N8x020:58
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AStormafaicr they don't use Xomap20:59
lardmanssvb: but when I was trying to map <1MB or memory, 4 or 5 TLBs were used in 0x10000 chunks before the dmesg messages told me it had run out; so it ought to work20:59
lardmanassuming you use multiples of 0x100,00020:59
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lardmanssvb: I can take a look tomorrow if you'd like me to (holiday :) )21:02
ssvblardman: right now I'm having weird "omapdsp: tadd address is ABORTADR." errors when I'm trying to add arrays that span across page boundary on N8x021:02
qwerty12_N800haha, lardman gets the day off, i get the week :p21:02
lcukbut lardman will be more productive in his one day than you in your whole week :P21:03
lcukplus, hes going to germany in a couple of days so gets the week off anyway21:03
ssvblardman: the same stuff works on 770, so I guess it migh be something with dspgateway version mismatch or anything else21:03
qwerty12_N800lcuk, hehe, fair play21:03
lcukcan this dsp compiler work on device?21:03
GAN800Man, lcuk, you told him. :P21:05
lardmanssvb: to diagnose such problems you can run "dsp_dld -p" in another terminal and see what it says21:06
lardmanssvb: that's a generic error that seems to turn up for everything, inlcuding undefined symbols21:06
lardmanlcuk: no, x86 only21:06
ssvblardman: ok, thanks21:07
lardmanqwerty12_N800: I've taken the week off too, but have to go into work on Tuesday morning21:07
lcukcould an aebi be made for gcc? or whatever is needed?21:07
lardmanlcuk: dso compiler using GCC?21:07
lcukyer - its just another cpu architecture21:07
lardmanit's been started, but not finished iirc21:08
lardmanI think the project died actually21:08
ssvblardman: basically there are two challenges now: mmap 2MB of memory (770 reboots if I try this stuff) and check whether it is possible to make the pointers not to wrap at page boundaries21:09
* lardman can't remember the name, but Googling for some combo of "tms320, c55, gcc, compiler" should do the trick21:09
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lardmanssvb: I'll try the 2MB mapping thing, perhaps later on as the gf wants to watch a Murder Mystery of no interest to me :)21:10
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lardmanssvb: what do you mean by pointer wrapping?21:10
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lardmanssvb: are you using *(pointer + offset) = sort of code?21:10
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ssvblardman: right now if you do *dst++ = *src++, the pointers eventually wrap at 0x10000 boundary as ++ operation only updates lower 16 bits21:11
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ssvblardman: the stuff with *(pointer + offset) works, but it is a lot slower21:12
HuLsHand again21:12
HuLsHas i see ppl are now alive21:12
HuLsHcan someone help21:13
lardmanssvb: can you cast to (UnsLg) inside the ++ operation?21:13
ssvblardman: it is possible to live with that and still make fast code, but it will still need lots of additional checks21:13
lardmanssvb: ok21:13
zapdoh, I managed to lock up n810 so hard that I had to take the battery off21:13
ssvblardman: anything that involves this stuff is slow :)21:13
HuLsHanyone ?21:14
qwerty12_N800zap, get used to doing  that21:15
ssvblardman: I mean casts to UnsLg, btw, I prefer more standard uint32_t types which are also supported by TI toolchain21:15
lcukHuLsH, ask the question and if ppl are knowedgable about the answer they might be able to respond21:15
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HuLsHyou are right21:15
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HuLsH<HuLsH> i am using fm-radio app21:16
HuLsH<HuLsH> and i whant to reinstall my os200821:16
HuLsH<HuLsH> but i cant find the way to somehow "export" the list of fm radio stations21:16
HuLsH* juergbi ( Quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host))21:16
HuLsH* juergbi ( has joined #maemo21:16
HuLsH<HuLsH> that i inserted, so i dont need to type them in again21:16
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lardmanHuLsH: no idea21:16
qwerty12_N800HuLsH, look into gconf21:16
qwerty12_N800let me find the gconf key21:17
* lcuk has never used the radio since i have an 81021:17
ssvblardman: according to spru599, revision 3.0 of c55x should have this pointer wrapping problem fixed21:17
lardmanssvb: I never got round to writing the test code to determine which revision we have21:18
lardmanssvb: The complier ought to be able to work around it though21:18
qwerty12_N800HuLsH, Copy the files inside /var/lib/gconf/apps/maemo/fmradio to another place.21:19
ssvblardman: yes, by generating slow code :)21:19
qwerty12_N800Built in backup tool should back it up too.21:19
ssvblardman: which is not exactly what we want21:19
lardmanssvb: :) true, perhaps time to dive into the asm...?21:19
HuLsHit should ?21:19
AStormssvb: you're the master, so... where do I get non-Xomap X?21:19
AStorm(preferably, with Xv working, but that's not required)21:20
ssvbAStorm: why non-Xomap?21:20
AStormas that doesn't work on 2.6.23-rc3-omap?21:20
AStormI only get a white screen21:21
AStorm(and yes, it is running, FB is working)21:21
HuLsHqwerty12_N800: THANKS !21:21
lardmanssvb: did you try the fb output code on the 770? I was getting errors for some reason (though can't remember what they were)21:21
HuLsHqwerty12_N800: i will try to see will the backup do it21:22
ssvblardman: not yet, first I'm trying to map memory buffer and work with it21:23
AStormso, do you guys know why it might not work?21:23
ssvblardman: I get enough problems even with that :)21:23
AStormmissing device node or something?21:23
lardmanssvb: that's the fun of DSP programming :/21:24
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AStormmaybe it's missing some update functionality or other API which is used by Xomap21:25
AStormI'll ping the linux-omap list21:26
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RST38hfMSX 3.5.3 released21:27
RST38h(same fixes as the latest iNES basically)21:27
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RST38hYea, that is the right way to off oneself:
AStormheh, sorry I don't have an english version21:34
AStorm - broken planes anyone? ;P21:34
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GAN8001andre, is this the fill in the blank game?21:35
GAN8001anrelicious? :P21:35
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andre____no, just tried to get a registered irc nick21:36
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qwerty12_N800AStorm, I guess English =
RST38hAStorm: Splendid21:38
RST38hAStorm: ratunkowa = emergency (adv) ?21:38
AStormRST38h: more or less21:39
* RST38h 's ukrainian is kinda weak21:39
AStormit's Polish21:39
AStormqwerty12_N800: yes, that one21:39
RST38hAStorm: well, the closest word exists in ukrainian21:40
RST38hPolish I do not know.21:40
mza-Is there adobe air for maemo?21:40
mza-would love to have twhirl21:40
RST38hno =)21:41
AStormRST38h: yes, Slavic languages are somewhat related21:41
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AStormso guys, I'll install Debian on my internal mmc21:44
AStormone q remains: will canola work there? :P21:44
AStormit's too nice to lose21:44
AStormand I'm too lazy to write a new UI for quodlibet21:45
qwerty12_N800I doubt it, depends on how much pymaemo differs from normal python21:45
qwerty12_N800plus if it uses anything  maemo specific21:46
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Naviqwerty12_N800, from the SVN I compiled to the newest, there's only been a 999_block_list and a newer patch for the image scaling hack21:51
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qwerty12_N800Navi, Thanks. I'm waiting  for them to release the diablo version, no idea if the current one works in diablo.21:52
Naviand an update to the gdocs (possible) crashing patch21:53
NaviI couldn't get the svn to run21:53
Naviwhich is why I'm on chinook nowadays21:53
* GAN8001 wishes browser-ui were open.21:54
qwerty12_N800I'll try taking a look sometime, chinook + svn beats diablo browser.21:54
GAN8001Any progress on those Nokia questions on the wiki?21:55
NaviNokia questions?21:55
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GAN8001The spillover from the #maemo-meeting21:58
thopiekarhi @ all21:59
thopiekarhow can i load my application (made with glade) on ubuntu and finally on my iT22:00
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drwxHi today I try to install maemo 4 sdk, I have a lot of broken dependancy packages. I think the maemo sdk is broken. can you comfirm that?22:02
qwerty12_N800mikie-scripts by emjayes is nice....22:03
RST38hnot broken22:03
RST38hyou are probably installing it on the wrong ubuntu22:03
RST38hyou may be installing gutsy packages22:03
ssvblardman: ok, it really helped, I had some problems with .cmd file and now they are fixed22:04
qwerty12_N800disable vdso and lower min mmap value. installing packages fails if that isn't done.22:04
lardmanssvb: It just dawns on me that the DSP only supports the simultanous data manipulation stuff on 16bit data iirc, so the 24bit pointers will be slower no matter what22:04
drwxRST38h: so how can I install it on hardy?22:05
lardmanssvb: glad to hear it - when I discovered that it made debugging why a task wouldn't work sooo much easier :)22:05
RST38hfind hardy packages =)22:05
ssvblardman: it always uses 24 bit pointer,22:05
qwerty12_N800"disable vdso and lower min mmap value. installing packages fails if that isn't done"22:05
thopiekardrwx, check you package list22:05
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lardmanssvb: I know, just saying that pointer stuff probably can't be optimised by the compiler into a set of parallel operations as the data is too wide22:06
ssvblardman: the problem is that when we have pre- or post- increment, only lower 16 bits of it are updated22:06
RST38h(and thank qwerty for this thread)22:06
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qwerty12_N800hehe, i  need to update that thread. using sysctl is easier imho :)22:07
ssvblardman: hmm, there is also this pointer wrap-around problem on N8x0, but I guess OMAP2420 is one of the latest chips and probably should use the c55x silicon revision22:07
lardmanssvb: you could presumably work around that knowing the location of the buffers with respect to the page boundary22:07
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RST38hqwerty: using sdk+ is easier ;)O22:08
qwerty12_N800RST38h, I will never go over to the dark side :p22:09
ssvblardman: yes, for example if we have a function that does color format conversion for a line of pixels, we can make a check if input or output data crosses page boundary and fallback to a slower implementation22:09
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qwerty12_N800I really find sb2 awkward.22:09
RST38hyou messed up colors =)22:09
lardmanssvb: yep22:09
qwerty12_N800RST38h, Neva! ;p22:09
* RST38h just added sb2 to the makefile root and forgot about it completely22:09
ssvblardman: but I would prefer not having this wrap-around problem in order not to clutter code22:09
thopiekardo you know how to start a application created with glade??22:09
lardmanssvb: I'm still concerned about how to trigger the updates22:10
RST38hbasically, added CC = sb2 gcc22:10
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lardmanssvb: without crashing the DSP by (presumably) filling the ioctl message queue22:10
qwerty12_N800thopiekar, no22:10
ssvblardman: could it be that it has 3.0 silicon revision, but some 'compatibility' mode is enabled?22:10
ssvblardman: you could try sending some confirmation to ARM core from DSP task when everything is done and never try doing update when you have a previous one still in process22:12
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lardmannot sure, will have to read through the compiler docs and see what can be specified22:13
ssvblardman: just read from dsp file descriptor before trying to ask it to do one more update22:13
lardmanssvb: I'm concerned about the speed of the ioctl, perhaps my code was very slow, but >0.1s to output Y plane !?22:13
lardmanmay not be the ioctl, the framebuffer update requires a message to be sent back to the ARM22:14
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ssvblardman|tv: I did a fast check to measure ARM<->DSP performance, looks like we can do ~1000 calls to DSP and get results from it per second22:16
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drwxRST38h: thank you I understand my problem now... ;-)22:16
ssvblardman|tv: it should be enough for just 30fps screen updates, though I still wonder why it is so slow22:17
qwerty12_N800drwx, what was i saying?22:17
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qwerty12_N800"disable vdso and lower min mmap value" - hell that thread is mine too22:20
drwxI'm re-installing memo-sdk from hardy repository, it' will works?22:22
drwxok, sorry I did not ready your post. thanks for your solution22:24
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qwerty12_N800:) - well, the solutions aren't mine :) (copied from inz and pH5)22:25
drwxthat's true, so thank's to  inz and pH5 too !! 8-)22:26
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* Cymor is back (gone 14:22:55)22:46
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blafaselFF3 RC1 is driving me nuts. I think about switching to Opera already..23:10
KotCzarnyhow about switching to Fx2 ?23:10
blafaselEats far too much of my memory. Tried FF3 because it was supposed to be easier on my resources, but..23:13
gourdinblafasel: but ?23:13
gourdinit really is23:13
blafaselI know that it's only a RC, hopefully the final release will be better.23:13
gourdinat least b4 was great23:13
KotCzarnymy fx2 doesn't eat more than 200-300mb23:13
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blafaselgourdin: It is, for sure. But it runs at 90-100% cpu usage every N minute23:13
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blafaselN < 1023:13
lcukKotCzarny, morning :) ive had a happy couple of days of coding directly from windows editor and device gcc :)23:14
gourdinblafasel: yep, same bug here23:14
gourdinbug from b523:14
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gourdinI hope there is a report somewhere :)23:14
blafaselgourdin: So I hope you understand my rather harsh feelings ;)23:14
KotCzarnylcuk: lucky you, i've been mostly sleeping :)23:14
blafaselI find lots of coverage online, yes.23:14
gourdinblafasel: I do !23:14
lcuknot much time left and still lots to do23:14
gourdin(konqueror 4.0.3+ is nice:)23:15
blafasellcuk: Will there be a recording of some sort of your presentations?23:17
lcuki sure hope so..23:18
lcukbut im technically not there to discuss my program, its obviously going to be brought up though23:18
lcukim making some movies tonight actually..23:18
KotCzarnymovies in the night23:18
lcukits a backlit screen, i could be doing it in a cave23:19
KotCzarnyisn't n810a transreflective?23:19
blafasellcuk: Tonight? What's your timezone?23:20
timelesskot: yes23:21
timelessi'm not sure how many nokians have had much in the way of chances to vrify that23:22
timeless-lacking sun until this month..23:22
viniliosany news about opengl on n800 ?23:22
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blafasellcuk: Ah, so comparable. Are you posting the videos somewhere here? I'm very very curious ;)23:23
timelessvin: you don't think it'd make planet.maemo?23:23
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timelessrare services may not be available23:30
lcukyes, probably youtube or whatever23:30
timeless(sorry, wrong channel)23:30
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lcukvinilios, in how long?   nokia have publically offered a "things are in progress" statement23:33
vinilioswell thats a progress i guess23:34
lcukindeed :)23:34
* pupnik is using dillo and konqueror more now23:40
pupnikffox is turning into the browser of last resort23:40
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lcukholy mother of god! 244mb "quick" test movie23:41
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KotCzarnyforgot to enable compression?23:42
lcukno, its 640*480 30fps standard file my camera offers23:42
KotCzarnywhat codec?23:42
pupniklcuk: how are you making movies23:42
KotCzarnyif any23:42
lcuki dont have the option for compression23:42
KotCzarnyprobably mjpeg23:43
pupnikgot a camera that records video in macro mode?23:43
lcukmy digital camera wedged into an ironing board (adjustable height ;) ) pointing downwards at the nokia23:43
KotCzarnypupnik: fresnel lenses? ;)23:43
lcukim using a piece of card to allow macro zoon to focus correctly then moving it out of the way to get clear shot of the screen held steady23:43
pupnikyeah the lcd messes up my focus also23:44
lcuk(it wont focus on the lcd)23:44
GAN800poor pupnik. :P23:44
pupnikwell i bought a camera that doesn't use focus23:44
pupnikessentially a pinhole HD video cam23:45
lcukanyway, it pisses batteries for fun and wont run when its plugged in so ive been against trying it23:45
pupnikyeah most cams were doing mjpeg23:45
KotCzarnypupnik: peep cam?23:45
pupniknow many do mpeg423:45
lcukits a great outdoors camera for the family stuff - it takes aa batteries and gives good enough shots23:45
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lcukyer, technically i think i should get linux on it, but i cant b arsed :P23:46
pupnikthere's a doom port for an old kodak digicam23:47
lcukheh :D23:47
KotCzarnypupnik, link?23:47
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pupnikdon't remember where23:47
KotCzarnyany keywords?23:48
pupnikeh, it was so long ago23:48
lcukwindows is so fucked, it managed to tell me device not recognised when i plug into a specific usb port, but works in another one23:48
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pupnikmaybe your port is dirty23:49
KotCzarnyor noisy23:50
lcukit works for other devices23:50
lcukits any port other than the one it was installed in23:50
KotCzarnyfun of computers23:50
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KotCzarnywe expect them to be 0/123:51
KotCzarnybut in real life it's not so bright and happy23:51
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