IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-05-23

starkmjolk	in theory there shouldn't have to be a difference, the integrated uses the same tech as the one -integrated- into the BT unit	00:00
qwerty12_N800	huats, I would update if my cpu wasn't 100% and not doing anything :/	00:01
*** jeff1f has joined #maemo		00:02
Blastur	perhaps the gps antenna is disturbed by the electronics? maybe bad pcb layout etc	00:02
*** murrayc_ has quit IRC		00:02
Blastur	it has happened before to products..	00:02
starkmjolk	hm, possible...	00:03
huats	qwerty12_N800: :(	00:03
huats	just let me know :)	00:03
starkmjolk	I'll be getting a n810 in a few days, I hoped the gps would work decently. would be sweet on the bike ;)	00:03
starkmjolk	(cba getting a car :P)	00:03
qwerty12_N800	i've read on here that chipset is shittest from ti range and it's meant to be used with agps. agps is being tested @ nokia	00:03
blafasel	qwerty12_N800: What means "is being tested"? Is it possible that we might get to use it?	00:04
starkmjolk	I haven't read up on agps but doesn't it use mobile antenna triangulation too?	00:05
qwerty12_N800	it's an internal atm. the diablo gpsdriver has support for agps. i guess we will see in final diablo.	00:05
*** gnuton has quit IRC		00:05
Blastur	when will diablo release then?	00:05
qwerty12_N800	You connect phone via bluetooth	00:05
blafasel	qwerty12_N800: Did anyone from here test it with the leaked diablo?	00:05
starkmjolk	ah, clever :)	00:05
qwerty12_N800	i dunno, i'm running beta	00:05
qwerty12_N800	blafasel, the agps app isn't leaked	00:06
Blastur	what is AGPS?	00:06
Blastur	doesn't that require internet connectivity?	00:06
*** richieeee73 has left #maemo		00:07
*** Count has left #maemo		00:07
*** zap has quit IRC		00:07
*** mazzen has quit IRC		00:07
*** setanta has quit IRC		00:08
*** setanta has joined #maemo		00:08
huats	qwerty12_N800: still not being able to update ?	00:08
qwerty12_N800	not really trying, i have some downloads running and don't want to mess them up	00:09
*** felipec has quit IRC		00:09
summatusmentis	agps == assisted gps	00:10
summatusmentis	a lot of cell networks use it	00:10
huats	ok	00:10
Blastur	you mean gps data is transmitted over gsm net?	00:10
Blastur	which the n810 can pickup to get faster fix?	00:10
qwerty12_N800	ok, my repos updated fine	00:10
huats	does anybody with extras repos enabled can try an apt-get update	00:10
huats	qwerty12_N800: ok	00:11
summatusmentis	Blastur: no, I think what it does is triangulates based on promximity to cell toweres	00:11
summatusmentis	-e	00:11
huats	qwerty12_N800: can you pastebin me your sources.list then ?	00:11
qwerty12_N800	deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ chinook free non-free	00:12
qwerty12_N800	that's extras line	00:12
qwerty12_N800	the rest is diablo stuff	00:12
huats	sq	00:12
huats	qwerty12_N800: ok	00:12
huats	that is mine...	00:13
huats	weird	00:13
*** qwerty12_N800 has quit IRC		00:13
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		00:13
*** acydlord has joined #maemo		00:14
*** sage-- has left #maemo		00:18
*** fab has quit IRC		00:19
*** acydlord has quit IRC		00:19
*** magicrobotmonkey has quit IRC		00:20
*** kenne has quit IRC		00:20
*** juergbi has quit IRC		00:21
*** smancke has quit IRC		00:23
*** fireun has joined #maemo		00:23
fireun	every time I try to copy files to my nokia, over usb from a linux box, it hangs at the end, and wont let go.	00:24
fireun	you cant kill the copy process, you cant unmount it, if you use nautilus it freezes up and you have to nuke it	00:24
fireun	even doing it in a term window, with cp, you cant ctrl-c it, or kill it	00:24
fireun	CRAZY!	00:24
fireun	whats going on?	00:24
Knirch	probably actually transfering the file	00:25
fireun	but I can access the file and its all there	00:25
Knirch	odd, check dmesg	00:26
fireun	nothing	00:26
*** flo_lap has quit IRC		00:26
*** frade has quit IRC		00:27
*** smancke has joined #maemo		00:29
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo		00:30
fireun	how long should 100MB take to transfer over?	00:30
fireun	maybe yer right, maybe its backgrounded the copy flush/sync	00:31
*** lopz has quit IRC		00:31
fireun	its just frustrating that I cant ctrl-C a cp process	00:31
*** zwnj has joined #maemo		00:34
*** blackdeath has joined #maemo		00:36
fireun	I'm sure my trouble is from the fact that I have a 770, and not an 810	00:36
blackdeath	i have a 810	00:37
fireun	because the 770 was relegated to the scrap heap as soon as nokia sold the 800	00:37
blackdeath	whats wrong with it	00:37
fireun	can I send in my two 770s in trade for an 810(w/wimax) ?	00:37
fireun	unstable	00:37
blackdeath	what do you meqn?	00:37
fireun	cant stream music for long before the music player freaks	00:38
Blastur	why would it become unstable because of new product releases?	00:38
fireun	and I have to reboot	00:38
fireun	Blastur: it was never really stable to begin with	00:38
blackdeath	true	00:38
blackdeath	did u mese with it	00:38
Blastur	fireun: hehe ok :)	00:39
Blastur	whats this wimax anyway? seems like no-one uses it here	00:39
blackdeath	ehh	00:39
fireun	Blastur: its new still	00:39
blackdeath	i only see good use if your in a city	00:39
*** luck^ has quit IRC		00:39
Blastur	does it work with standard wifi aps?	00:40
blackdeath	yeah	00:40
Blastur	oh, really? hm	00:40
Blastur	whats different with it?	00:40
blackdeath	its just wifi for big area's	00:40
Blastur	just more power to transmitter?	00:40
blackdeath	and theres most likely money in volved	00:40
Blastur	completely compatible with 802.11a/b/g ?	00:41
blackdeath	to pay for the fee of wimax	00:41
blackdeath	yeah	00:41
blackdeath	i have the 810 with out	00:41
*** lmoura has quit IRC		00:41
fireun	nokia is going wimax because they cut a deal with Sprint's new network	00:41
fireun	which uses wimax	00:41
Blastur	i got the n810 with wifi too	00:41
blackdeath	yup	00:41
fireun	voip of the future	00:41
fireun	your battery will likely be happier without the extra wimax	00:41
fireun	still waiting for this copy to finish	00:42
blackdeath	yes	00:42
fireun	seriously, shouldnt take this long	00:42
blackdeath	no i wish there was a extented batteray	00:42
fireun	I bet it would work fine from windows, or macos	00:42
Blastur	fireun: over USB, i can copy like 1 gb in a few minutes	00:42
Blastur	( to my n810 )	00:42
fireun	Blastur: exactly, why is my 770 just hanging	00:42
fireun	because its not supported	00:42
fireun	and no one wants to fix it	00:42
fireun	gar. I bought a linux device for I thought, a good reason.	00:42
blackdeath	there might be a solution	00:43
blackdeath	what os 2008?	00:43
Blastur	you mean nokia doesn't want to fix it? isn't all kernel hw modules propriatery code in maemo?	00:43
*** summatusmentis has quit IRC		00:43
fireun	blackdeath: i've tried most all of them, I might be running the latest HE2007	00:43
fireun	Blastur: thats why they dont want to fix it	00:43
blackdeath	hmhm	00:43
fireun	they dont open up thing to be fixed by those would would like to	00:43
Blastur	it's a big difference between being able to fix it, and want to fix it :)	00:44
fireun	its like my old compaq aero, ran the portable windows, but when they came out with the new windows-mobile or whatever, it was tossed.. nice color screen and everything, useless.	00:44
fireun	junked.	00:44
*** jeez_ has quit IRC		00:44
blackdeath	CE?	00:44
fireun	I'm just saying, dont go half way	00:44
fireun	blackdeath: it -was- CE	00:44
fireun	for like a year	00:45
blackdeath	i had a jornada with ce	00:45
fireun	one OS version hardware sucks.	00:45
*** patoh has quit IRC		00:45
blackdeath	yeah	00:45
fireun	I dont want big upgrades, I just want the stability and standards followed.	00:45
fireun	thats all.	00:45
blackdeath	n810 isent perferct	00:45
Blastur	n810 is far from perfect	00:45
fireun	if it reboots randomly with heavy wifi, there seems to be a bug in the networking code, right?	00:46
lcuk	it depends what you want to do with it	00:46
*** dholbert has joined #maemo		00:46
fireun	if I cant browse local wifi nodes unless I cover the 770 with my body to shield it from the noisy neighborhood, theres a bug in the networking browser code, right?	00:46
Blastur	fireun: why did you get 2 n770 if you are so unhappy with them? :)	00:47
lcuk	i went on holiday and had something small and handy to code and develop on. for me the end product IS the incomplete expandable base	00:47
fireun	supposedly there is a conflict with 802.11n broadcasts, but.. meh.	00:47
fireun	Blastur: thats not a good argument	00:47
blackdeath	my cell + n810 = blackdeath's internet every where	00:47
Blastur	i wasn't arguing, i was just curious	00:47
blackdeath	i kn	00:47
Blastur	my n810 also suffers from spontaneous reboots	00:47
blackdeath	eh	00:47
fireun	Blastur: then its a bad question (:	00:47
blackdeath	mine dosent	00:48
Blastur	not sure if its because of heavy wifi though	00:48
fireun	Blastur: I find that wierd	00:48
blackdeath	even with my kernal mods	00:48
Blastur	and it has only happened once so far	00:48
fireun	Blastur: should be fairly controlled, being a near embedded device	00:48
Blastur	but the browser crashes quite often	00:48
fireun	Blastur: look, I used to write code for embedded systems, I would have been fired repeatedly if my stuff was half as unstable as the 770	00:48
fireun	Blastur: eh, I could deal with the browser crashing	00:49
fireun	Blastur: you cant hope for it to handle every freaky website out there.	00:49
Blastur	i know the feeling, i'm also an embedded developer ;-)	00:49
blackdeath	<fireun> have you looked a zarus	00:50
*** lopz has joined #maemo		00:50
fireun	Blastur: I bought two because I found the second for 110$ and it spread out my initial purchase of 400$ over two devices - and why buy one, when you can buy two? I didnt want to become so attached to it that if it died, I'd have no recourse but to buy something really expensive	00:50
Blastur	unfortunately, you cannot expect companies to perfect products before launch.. there is a tradeoff between stability and time-to-market	00:50
fireun	but this isnt before launch anymorre	00:50
fireun	this is 2 product releases later after the initial release	00:50
lcuk	the current browser feels is a big fat desktop program crammed inside the box, from what I hear the improvements in diablo are quite substantial	00:50
fireun	if they didnt share 90% of the code base, they werent doing it right	00:51
Blastur	apparently not!	00:51
fireun	anyhow, all I want to do is copy a file, and at the moment I find it impossible	00:51
fireun	its still hung up	00:51
Blastur	yeah.. do you get the same behaviour on both devices?	00:51
fireun	havnt tried	00:52
fireun	only one has the 2G card, the other has the stock 65MB	00:52
Blastur	perhaps you should.. to rule out hardware failure,..	00:52
fireun	yeh	00:52
Blastur	and perhaps try it with a 2nd PC, could be linux issue on the other end	00:52
fireun	you'd think linux-linux would be better supported than windows-linux	00:53
fireun	oh well	00:53
fireun	I know I'm just ranting, cant help it.	00:53
fireun	everything sucks these days	00:53
Blastur	i had very weird usb behaviour on linux a while back, where it could not handle the power savings on the controller applied	00:53
Blastur	(it went to sleep)	00:53
fireun	yeah well, power management in linux is a joke	00:53
Blastur	which caused all kinds of freaky behaviour	00:53
fireun	I have to manually control the cpuspeed to get a system that doesnt run the fan all the time	00:54
Blastur	perhaps your controller is falling asleep during copy? :) that could maybe cause it to hang	00:54
*** huats has quit IRC		00:54
fireun	Blastur: I feel like a programmer again	00:54
fireun	Blastur: having to debug everything (:	00:55
Blastur	yeah, know the feeling.. i do it every freaking day at work :(	00:55
fireun	I should be paid for my efforst	00:55
Blastur	debugging embedded is a bitch	00:55
fireun	its not that bad	00:55
Blastur	printk ftw	00:55
fireun	depends on your debug tools	00:55
*** behdad has joined #maemo		00:55
fireun	in system debugging is much better	00:55
Blastur	well, we have mostly in-house stuff, since we have our own cpu arch	00:55
Blastur	we cant use stuff like valgrind, kmemcheck or kdbg	00:56
fireun	in-house cpu? ouch	00:56
Blastur	fortunately, we are moving to a mips core in the next product.. cheer	00:56
Blastur	now, bedtime! gnite .. gl with the debuggin'	00:56
*** maba has quit IRC		00:56
fireun	I was happy when we moved to -real- memory, not page flipping	00:57
fireun	Blastur: cheers	00:57
*** Blastur has quit IRC		00:57
fireun	I need a job, anyone hiring? (:	00:59
fireun	I'm a bit rusty, but come up to speed quick.	01:01
*** cktakahasi has quit IRC		01:01
*** atlas95 is now known as Atlas95_Zzz		01:01
*** JackCrow has quit IRC		01:02
*** JackCrow has joined #maemo		01:04
*** RST38x has joined #maemo		01:06
*** hfwilke has quit IRC		01:15
ljp	i think both Nokia and Trolltech are hiring	01:19
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo		01:22
fireun	as is always the case, they only want to evaluate the ones that have the perfect resume of doing only what they want, and have multiple degrees. So unless I come up with a project that I write up to run on the maemo platform, I have no "in". (:	01:24
fireun	rather than the attitude of, "if we give you a small tool to rewrite and you do that well, and we progressivly give you more responsibility and you always work out... yer hired!" (:	01:25
fireun	google is remarkable in some ways	01:25
fireun	but even they require the best of degrees.	01:25
ljp	I guess you will never know unless you try	01:26
fireun	as is anything in life	01:26
*** krau has joined #maemo		01:27
rm_you	heh	01:27
ljp	I know of several people, including developers at Trolltech that do not have degrees, but have plenty of experience	01:27
rm_you	I wonder if I should apply after I graduate next year :P	01:28
*** jegp has left #maemo		01:28
rm_you	they'd prolly be like... come back in 5 years :P	01:28
ljp	jr developers are also needed, I believe	01:29
fireun	wow, they use lotus notes	01:29
fireun	crikey	01:29
*** behdad has quit IRC		01:30
*** l7__ has joined #maemo		01:30
rm_you	you on an application page fireun?	01:31
fireun	erm?	01:31
rm_you	what are you looking at?	01:31
fireun	got an error from an outdated page	01:31
*** l7__ has quit IRC		01:31
fireun	yeah, I have like 7 years experience as an embedded coder, but in the last half dozen I've done something else	01:32
fireun	mostly R&D, but for this last job which was a big disappointment	01:33
fireun	I thought it was more important to live where I wanted, than work at what I did best	01:33
fireun	one of those life lessons, but it still makes my resume look sideways	01:33
*** flo_lap has quit IRC		01:33
fireun	so far, the HR department is what kills me first, if my resume makes it to an engineer they usually go "oh wow, yeah, sure he can learn on the job... he clearly shows ability to do good work wherever he works - we should get him while we can!" (:	01:34
rm_you	:)	01:35
fireun	but the HR department sheep go "uh, wha? huh? oh, no degree - JUNK"	01:35
rm_you	yeah, I would love to work on maemo, but if they put me somewhere in their phone development team, i would die	01:35
fireun	right	01:35
*** renato_ has quit IRC		01:35
rm_you	it's hard, but i'm desperately trying to get a job in Open Source <_<	01:36
rm_you	or at least something close	01:36
fireun	R&D support seems to be my fit	01:36
rm_you	and maemo is probably the closest I could get	01:36
fireun	I've been out of work for a month and a half, I dont want to go hungry either, waiting for the right job	01:36
rm_you	yeah :/	01:36
blackdeath	has any one played with blueserial?	01:36
fireun	and yet, put me in tech support and I'd die even quicker	01:36
blackdeath	on any of the nokia's	01:37
rm_you	heh yeah...	01:37
rm_you	blueserial?	01:37
blackdeath	yah	01:37
blackdeath	i cant get t to work on the 810	01:37
blackdeath	i found a part of 770	01:37
* rm_you googles it		01:37
blackdeath	port	01:37
blackdeath	yeah	01:37
ljp	trolltech puts about equal weight on experience as degree	01:37
fireun	rm_you: I like the job where the engineer/team says "heres this thing we've figured out the major parts, but it needs some solder, some glue code, and some debugging in a real world setting - here, break it if you can, fix it if you might - just make it better like we know you can"	01:37
rm_you	heh	01:38
blackdeath	rm_you: i have a binary that dosnt work	01:38
fireun	ljp: the trolltech libraries are so much cleaner than the gtk crap, but their cosmetic appeal sucks.	01:38
fireun	seems like the difference between gtk "grown" and qt "engineered"	01:39
rm_you	yeah QT always made me squirm...	01:39
fireun	and I have no appreciable experience with qt - but really, its just libraries you have to learn the api for, mostly.	01:39
fireun	copy and paste from some other project the first time, then tweak it, then eventually rewrite it the way you think it should be implemented, debug and clean.. done.	01:40
rm_you	yeah	01:40
rm_you	i've gotten decently good at that	01:40
rm_you	just from fixing people's class projects <_<	01:40
fireun	creating in a void is very, very difficult	01:40
rm_you	yeah, but fun	01:41
fireun	zero point energy	01:41
fireun	sure, very rewarding	01:41
rm_you	most of the projects I do start from complete scratch	01:41
fireun	but again, wash rinse repeat	01:41
rm_you	just wrote a CMS from scratch in 9 months	01:41
starkmjolk	there is no emacs22 port for maemo right? :)	01:41
rm_you	it was very fun	01:41
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC		01:41
fireun	rm_you: oh, well I've worked in a big company where it was more efficient to reuse existing code so as to keep total code size down	01:41
rm_you	got to lead a small team for the project too :P	01:41
ljp	fireun: Qt can look like gtk, if you like.	01:41
* fireun waves his hands, then goes to take a shower		01:42
rm_you	heh	01:42
rm_you	ttyl	01:42
*** fireun has quit IRC		01:42
* rm_you heads to dinner		01:42
* ljp gets back to work		01:42
* starkmjolk heads for bed		01:43
*** gopi has joined #maemo		01:44
rwhitby	starkmjolk: there should be - emacs22 runs on the Linksys nslu2	01:44
rwhitby	(so it's not a resource problem if it's not compiled for maemo yet)	01:44
starkmjolk	is nslu2 ARM?	01:44
rwhitby	yeah, but not armel	01:44
rwhitby	and definitely not maemo-compatible	01:45
starkmjolk	I run it on a armel xscale, so it exists	01:45
starkmjolk	thecus N2100 with debian armel runs it just fine	01:45
rwhitby	should run fine on maemo then	01:45
rwhitby	someone just needs to package it	01:46
starkmjolk	we'll see if I get that much into it :) otherwise I'll run most stuff over SSH so no problem then	01:46
starkmjolk	ah, google first. :) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16189	01:48
starkmjolk	it's already done	01:48
*** venice has joined #maemo		01:49
*** venice has quit IRC		01:50
*** venice has joined #maemo		01:50
venice	asd	01:50
*** jeff1f has quit IRC		01:53
*** venice has left #maemo		01:54
* rwhitby installs emacs22 on his n800		01:55
*** Cptnodegard has quit IRC		01:56
*** Tuco has joined #maemo		01:56
starkmjolk	:)	01:57
starkmjolk	anyway, I was supposed to sleep. good night! :)	01:58
*** benh has quit IRC		01:58
*** playya has joined #maemo		01:59
*** sage-- has joined #maemo		01:59
*** svu has quit IRC		02:01
*** trbs has quit IRC		02:01
*** rm_you has quit IRC		02:04
*** grape has joined #maemo		02:04
*** alextreme has quit IRC		02:06
*** svu has joined #maemo		02:06
*** seraph1 has quit IRC		02:07
*** seraph1 has joined #maemo		02:07
*** corq-FL has joined #maemo		02:07
*** roue has joined #maemo		02:08
*** MangoFusion has quit IRC		02:08
*** sage-- has left #maemo		02:08
*** HandfulOfNothing has quit IRC		02:12
*** roue has quit IRC		02:17
*** smancke has left #maemo		02:23
*** matt_c has quit IRC		02:23
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC		02:32
*** ]-[andful_of_not has joined #maemo		02:33
*** dmsuperman_ has quit IRC		02:35
*** ]-[andful_of_not has quit IRC		02:36
*** ]-[andful_of_not has joined #maemo		02:36
*** targaryen has joined #maemo		02:37
*** jpetersen has quit IRC		02:38
*** tortoise_ has quit IRC		02:38
*** cmarcelo has quit IRC		02:43
*** vcgomes has quit IRC		02:45
*** dforsyth has quit IRC		02:47
*** ]-[andful_of_not has quit IRC		02:47
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo		02:47
*** ]-[andful_of_not has joined #maemo		02:47
*** dforsyth has quit IRC		02:48
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo		02:48
*** mrlanrat has joined #maemo		02:54
*** eton has quit IRC		02:57
*** ]-[andful_of_not has quit IRC		03:10
*** ol_schoola has joined #maemo		03:11
*** alex-weej has quit IRC		03:12
*** Mousey has quit IRC		03:18
*** vcgomes has joined #maemo		03:19
*** gnuSnob has joined #maemo		03:25
*** blackdeath has quit IRC		03:26
*** penguinbait has quit IRC		03:27
*** ]-[andful_of_not has joined #maemo		03:35
*** gnuSnob has quit IRC		03:39
*** vivijim has joined #maemo		03:39
*** greentux_ has joined #maemo		03:44
*** greentux has quit IRC		03:44
*** kcome has joined #maemo		03:55
*** febb has joined #maemo		03:58
*** dforsyth has quit IRC		03:59
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo		03:59
*** vims0r has joined #maemo		04:03
*** VimSi has quit IRC		04:05
*** NullM0dem has quit IRC		04:06
*** EruditeHermit has joined #maemo		04:06
*** seraph1 has quit IRC		04:08
*** BabelO has quit IRC		04:09
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: I fixed the camera problem. It was hardware related. I had to push the metal thing above the battery bay to contact the camera.	04:09
*** povbot` has joined #maemo		04:15
*** etrunko has quit IRC		04:19
*** guerby_ has joined #maemo		04:22
*** Crfrodf has joined #maemo		04:24
*** unixSnob has joined #maemo		04:28
*** povbot has quit IRC		04:29
*** povbot has joined #maemo		04:45
*** povbot` has quit IRC		04:51
*** blahdeblah-lap has joined #maemo		04:58
*** christefano has joined #maemo		05:02
*** targaryen has quit IRC		05:05
*** seraph1 has quit IRC		05:07
*** hfwilke has joined #maemo		05:08
*** sp3000 has quit IRC		05:16
*** slomo_ has joined #maemo		05:17
fadec	How can I upgrade the Nokia 770 from mistral to gregal?	05:18
KotCzarny	~firmware	05:19
*** herz1 has joined #maemo		05:19
infobot	i heard firmware is hardware that is beginning to melt Firmware for GrandStream phones is at http://www.hellofone.com/files/	05:19
KotCzarny	~os2008	05:19
*** beford has joined #maemo		05:19
fadec	~os2008 for the 770?	05:19
*** herzi has quit IRC		05:20
KotCzarny	infobot: itfw is look there: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/	05:20
infobot	okay, KotCzarny	05:20
KotCzarny	~itfw	05:20
infobot	[itfw] look there: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/	05:20
beford	~itfw	05:20
infobot	[itfw] look there: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/	05:20
KotCzarny	infobot: itfw is for NIT os/firmware look there: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/	05:21
infobot	...but itfw is already something else...	05:21
KotCzarny	nvm	05:21
KotCzarny	:)	05:21
beford	~forget itfw	05:21
infobot	beford: i forgot itfw	05:21
KotCzarny	infobot: itfw is for NIT os/firmware look there: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/	05:21
infobot	okay, KotCzarny	05:21
KotCzarny	beford, thx	05:22
*** christefano has quit IRC		05:22
pupnik	!stfw	05:22
fadec	sweet!	05:22
*** red-zack has quit IRC		05:22
KotCzarny	hi pupnik	05:24
*** hpg101 has joined #maemo		05:26
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo		05:27
hpg101	hi all. are there archives of recent threads discussing the n800 unavailability in the states	05:28
*** slomo has quit IRC		05:30
*** l7_ has quit IRC		05:31
*** Synchronicity is now known as Relate		05:33
*** EruditeHermit has quit IRC		05:34
*** JackCrow has quit IRC		05:34
*** christefano has joined #maemo		05:36
*** dholbert has quit IRC		05:46
*** matt_c has joined #maemo		05:58
*** Sargun has quit IRC		06:03
*** hfwilke has quit IRC		06:03
*** hfwilke has joined #maemo		06:06
*** viviji1 has quit IRC		06:15
*** ]-[andful_of_not has quit IRC		06:17
*** rm_you has joined #maemo		06:23
*** christefano is now known as christefano_away		06:25
*** BTobotras has joined #maemo		06:28
*** k-s has quit IRC		06:39
*** T0b0tras has quit IRC		06:42
oilinki	good morning	06:43
Navi	good evening	06:43
rm_you	good night	06:46
Navi	Going to bed?	06:47
rm_you	no, but it's definately night time :P	06:47
*** Sargun has joined #maemo		06:48
Navi	It's night time here too, but I didn't want to say good night 'cuz people mistake it for me going to bed :P	06:48
rm_you	well, i think i managed to clear it up nicely :P	06:49
*** lopz has quit IRC		06:49
oilinki	well, I'd like to add that it still would be nice to sleep a bit more, even if it's almost 11am already :)	06:50
rm_you	lol	06:51
rm_you	i've been waking up at 3pm	06:51
*** summatusmentis has joined #maemo		06:52
oilinki	heh. sometimes the night is the most productive time there is.	06:52
Relate	true what say you	06:53
rm_you	it's ALWAYS the most productive time there is	06:53
KotCzarny	not true	06:54
KotCzarny	:)	06:54
*** summatusmentis has joined #maemo		06:54
* Navi throws bomb-ombs at everyone		06:55
*** Dregs has quit IRC		06:55
* rm_you throws bomb-ombs at KotCzarny for being a non-believer		06:56
KotCzarny	what's a bomb-omb?	06:56
summatusmentis	ok, so I lied, I didn't get a chance to get my N810 tonight, KotCzarny you were right	06:57
summatusmentis	I'll have it shipped	06:57
Navi	summatusmentis, fail	06:57
summatusmentis	my conference went long, and then I thought the store wanna gonna be close to where I was going in NYC (after conference festivites), but it wasn't, and I don't know my way around NYC enough to navigate to the store, and back here	06:58
summatusmentis	back to where I was, rather	06:58
Navi	:P	06:58
beford	is there any information about what gecko version does microb runs on diablo/chinohook?	06:59
Navi	The same one that was in FF3a1	06:59
beford	that's diablo, right?	07:00
Navi	It's the same engine version :P	07:00
*** lopz has joined #maemo		07:07
beford	hmm, it seems to be an older version	07:11
*** hfwilke has quit IRC		07:12
beford	it uses 2.x gecko engine	07:13
* Navi sighs		07:14
*** gopi has quit IRC		07:19
*** tjafk1 has quit IRC		07:26
*** tjafk1 has joined #maemo		07:26
beford	although about: it says Gecko 20071018/Firefox 3.0a1 :/	07:26
KotCzarny	1.5 years old anyway	07:27
KotCzarny	:)	07:27
KotCzarny	erm. 0.5	07:27
KotCzarny	hm	07:27
KotCzarny	no. 1.5	07:27
KotCzarny	because gecko date is only compilation date	07:28
KotCzarny	:)	07:28
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC		07:28
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo		07:28
*** vcgomes has quit IRC		07:29
beford	yea, that explains why it seems to be vulnerable to the jar: issue	07:31
*** behdad has joined #maemo		07:32
*** mysc has joined #maemo		07:36
*** behdad has quit IRC		07:36
mysc	hi all. for any running debian beta3...i'm stuggling with my wpa connection	07:36
rm_you	ooo, i need to grab that	07:37
mysc	any pointers?	07:37
rm_you	no idea how he was handling wpa	07:38
rm_you	i wonder if he even tested that	07:38
rm_you	i'm pretty sure his router is just using WEP	07:38
rm_you	is wpa_supplicant on there?	07:38
rm_you	you'd probably have to ask johnx	07:38
Navi	wpa_supplicant is installed	07:38
Navi	by default	07:38
rm_you	on debian beta3?	07:39
rm_you	>_>	07:39
mysc	yeah. but the wiki has a 2-line snipped of his /etc/network/interfaces with wpa-ssid and wpa-psk - so i assume wpa router	07:39
rm_you	hrm	07:39
rm_you	it wasn't when i was connected to it :P but meh	07:39
*** procto is now known as procto_		07:39
rm_you	he should be on in a bit maybe	07:41
mysc	well, i'm outta ideas, i did force the MAC (my router has MAC restrictions) and beta3 brings up a whack mac	07:41
Navi	There's also something in the wiki about that :P	07:41
*** procto has joined #maemo		07:41
Navi	oh	07:41
mysc	yeah, i followed the wiki suggestion.	07:42
mysc	he=?	07:42
*** lopz has quit IRC		07:43
mysc	nonetheless, i have edited penguin's chroot script and can chroot over with wireless...the debian rocks! except the kb is hard to use	07:43
Navi	the matchbox keyboard?	07:45
mysc	i get it from the top bar in xfce	07:47
mysc	the mini one in the window	07:47
Navi	http://www.xenf.net/n800stuff/	07:47
Navi	I forget where you stick the xml file	07:48
mysc	that looks nice but it's also a floater. makes it tough when you have term open	07:48
Navi	It resizes my fullscreen apps in openbox	07:50
mysc	ah, that fellow config'd it quite a bit, 2 virt desktops (i have the default 4) and he removed the top 2 left buttons, one "rotates" my desktop into unusability	07:50
Navi	That's my crap	07:51
Navi	I removed xfce4 after that screenshot	07:51
*** z72ka has joined #maemo		07:51
mysc	heh	07:52
mysc	what do you use now?	07:52
Navi	openbox	07:52
mysc	gotcha. how did you take the screenshots?	07:52
*** z72ka has quit IRC		07:52
Navi	scrot	07:52
*** z72ka has joined #maemo		07:52
mysc	did you get wpa working, by chance?	07:53
Navi	no	07:53
Navi	Didn't try	07:53
mysc	i wish i could figure out how to use the kb from maemo when chrooting over to deb (or vnc'ing over)	07:54
*** RST38x has quit IRC		07:55
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo		07:55
*** procto_ has quit IRC		08:00
mysc	what's the nick of the fella who put this together?	08:00
rm_you	johnx	08:01
rm_you	he is probably... hrm	08:01
rm_you	probably at work	08:01
*** RST38x has joined #maemo		08:01
rm_you	johnx: you at work?	08:01
*** beford has quit IRC		08:02
mysc	i gotcha. i spoke to johnx about debian on here, didn't realize he was the author of the tarball	08:02
*** christefano_away is now known as christefano		08:03
*** legind has quit IRC		08:03
rm_you	yeah	08:06
rm_you	I keep promising to help him on it, and keep being busy :P	08:07
rm_you	though i really should fix my own app first :P	08:07
mysc	well, i just started an apt-get on network manager, heh. wonder if it'll break everything	08:07
mysc	what's your app?	08:08
RST38h	yawn	08:11
*** opendeep has joined #maemo		08:12
*** l7 has quit IRC		08:24
rm_you	advanced backlight	08:30
rm_you	**statusbar	08:30
*** Tuco has quit IRC		08:34
*** opendeep has quit IRC		08:37
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC		08:42
*** unique311 has joined #Maemo		08:45
*** unique311 has quit IRC		08:46
*** AStorm has joined #maemo		08:47
*** EruditeHermit has joined #maemo		08:49
*** jeddy3 has joined #maemo		08:50
*** patoh has joined #maemo		08:51
*** kcome has quit IRC		08:51
*** kcome has joined #maemo		08:53
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		08:53
*** unique311_ has joined #maemo		08:54
*** unique311_ has quit IRC		08:57
*** guardian has quit IRC		09:00
*** f_mohr has joined #maemo		09:04
*** jeddy3_ has joined #maemo		09:04
*** corevette has quit IRC		09:04
*** l7 has joined #maemo		09:05
*** philipl has quit IRC		09:05
AStorm	heh, I've really fixed^Wworked around the random mmc device nodes bug	09:06
*** f_mohr has quit IRC		09:14
*** simon_ has quit IRC		09:15
*** jeddy3_ has quit IRC		09:17
*** karbas has quit IRC		09:19
*** RST38x has left #maemo		09:19
*** Atlas95_Zzz has quit IRC		09:20
*** eXeonical has joined #maemo		09:20
RST38h	AStorm	09:26
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo		09:30
*** zap has joined #maemo		09:30
*** dforsyth has quit IRC		09:32
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo		09:32
*** trickie_ has joined #maemo		09:36
*** karbas has joined #maemo		09:37
*** Blom has joined #maemo		09:41
*** guardian has joined #maemo		09:44
mysc	OK - i officially give up on wpa/wifi for the night.	09:44
qwerty12	Morning for me and i'm as tired as **** :/	09:45
*** Cptnodegard has joined #maemo		09:45
*** guardian has quit IRC		09:46
*** anidel has joined #maemo		09:47
anidel	good morning	09:47
qwerty12	morning	09:47
*** MangoFusion has joined #maemo		09:47
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		09:48
anidel	hi querty12	09:48
anidel	how's the devil behaving ?	09:48
qwerty12	hi, hehe, haven't tried him today :p	09:48
anidel	qwerty12, hot stuff, you should take care.. it burns :P	09:49
anidel	going for a coffee .. tty soon	09:50
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		09:50
qwerty12	I have to go soon anyway :)	09:50
anidel	talk to you later today then.. bye :)	09:50
qwerty12	bye :)	09:50
*** ArthurDentN770 has joined #maemo		09:51
*** msanchez has joined #maemo		09:52
*** philipl has joined #maemo		09:53
*** Trbs810 has quit IRC		09:54
mysc	ok, this cx3110x module seems to be the problem. i have confirmed at least an off-by-one on the debugging facility	09:56
qwerty12	Are you on N800 or N810?	09:57
*** guardian has joined #maemo		09:57
mysc	800	09:58
qwerty12	Ahh, I thought that was an N810 thing only. I got wifi working on my N800 but I didn't do anything special :/	09:59
qwerty12	TIme for me to go, bye.	09:59
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC		09:59
*** tobmaster has joined #maemo		10:03
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC		10:03
*** ArthurDentN770 has quit IRC		10:04
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo		10:04
*** foka has quit IRC		10:07
*** blahdeblah-lap has left #maemo		10:12
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo		10:15
*** MicroChip123 has joined #maemo		10:16
*** MicroChip123 has quit IRC		10:17
*** MicroChip123 has joined #maemo		10:19
*** eocanha has joined #maemo		10:21
*** MicroChip123 has quit IRC		10:22
*** bergie has joined #maemo		10:23
*** simon_ has joined #maemo		10:26
*** smancke has joined #maemo		10:27
*** pupnik has quit IRC		10:28
*** Sargun has quit IRC		10:29
*** Sargun has joined #maemo		10:30
*** jeddy3 has quit IRC		10:33
*** k-s has joined #maemo		10:34
*** jeddy3 has joined #maemo		10:36
*** patoh has quit IRC		10:36
*** patoh has joined #maemo		10:36
*** ab has joined #maemo		10:39
*** guardian has quit IRC		10:40
*** guardian has joined #maemo		10:40
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo		10:40
*** febb has quit IRC		10:46
*** hrw\|gone is now known as hrw		10:47
hrw	morning	10:47
zakhary	.	10:48
Jaffa	Morning, all	10:48
*** luogni has joined #maemo		10:49
starkmjolk	good morning	10:49
*** smancke has quit IRC		10:52
*** huats has joined #maemo		10:53
*** calvaris has quit IRC		10:53
*** smancke has joined #maemo		10:54
GeneralAntilles	http://arstechnica.com/journals/linux.ars/2008/05/22/qgtkstyle-makes-kde-apps-fit-in-with-gnome	10:56
GeneralAntilles	Might be useful for Qt on maemo.	10:56
Jaffa	Indeed	10:57
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		10:58
GeneralAntilles	Though I'm most concerned with getting the virtual text-entry working well.	10:59
inz	I just yesterday compiled qgtkstyle for my laptop	11:00
*** Khertan_TheReal has joined #maemo		11:01
Khertan_TheReal	Hi !	11:01
Khertan_TheReal	does the nokia backup tool can be configured to save also /home/user/.* ?	11:01
GeneralAntilles	Does it not?	11:02
* GeneralAntilles isn't clear on what gets backed up with "Settings"		11:02
Jaffa	No, /home/user/.* isn't saved IIRC	11:02
Jaffa	Every app which wants something saved has to put an XML file in a particular place	11:03
LoCusF	can I use N810's gps system via bluetooth for some other device?	11:04
GeneralAntilles	Ad-hoc via gpsd would probably work better.	11:04
Khertan_TheReal	Jaffa > yes i ve see this is not saved ... i ve lost my ssh key	11:05
Khertan_TheReal	so it s why i ask if i can configure it to save all file in /home/user	11:05
Khertan_TheReal	;)à	11:05
Khertan_TheReal	Not enough random bytes available. Please do some other work to give	11:06
Khertan_TheReal	the OS a chance to collect more entropy! (Need 277 more bytes)	11:06
Khertan_TheReal	oups ww	11:06
*** mk8 has joined #maemo		11:06
*** simboss_ has joined #maemo		11:08
Jaffa	Khertan_TheReal: I raised a bug against the OpenSSH maintainer. It was marked fixed so the openssh package should now include the appropriate file to backup /home/user/.ssh	11:08
*** vik_ has joined #maemo		11:10
*** gopi has joined #maemo		11:13
*** murrayc_ has joined #maemo		11:14
*** calvaris has quit IRC		11:15
*** calvaris has joined #maemo		11:17
*** borism has quit IRC		11:17
*** rm_you has quit IRC		11:22
*** lovebug356 has joined #maemo		11:22
X-Fade	Khertan_TheReal: Did you receive the invitation?	11:24
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo		11:24
Khertan_TheReal	Jaffa > great ...	11:27
Khertan_TheReal	X-Fade> yes thx	11:27
Khertan_TheReal	really fast :)	11:27
X-Fade	We aim to please ;)	11:28
KotCzarny	O.o	11:28
KotCzarny	i would like to order cheese pizza	11:28
Khertan_TheReal	i ve just a problem to create my ssh key ... need to collect more entropy ...	11:28
KotCzarny	;)	11:28
Khertan_TheReal	it s seems that i don't use enought my tablet	11:28
Khertan_TheReal	:)	11:28
X-Fade	Khertan_TheReal: Download large files?	11:29
KotCzarny	play some mp3	11:29
jldiaz	drag the stylus randomly through the screen	11:31
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		11:32
*** borism has joined #maemo		11:32
*** BabelO has joined #maemo		11:34
*** Sho_ has quit IRC		11:34
*** povbot` has joined #maemo		11:40
MangoFusion	i love my iN800!	11:43
KotCzarny	perv.	11:43
GeneralAntilles	That's the horrible child from your iPhone and N800? :shudder:	11:45
*** greentux_ has quit IRC		11:51
*** EruditeHermit has quit IRC		11:52
*** florian has joined #maemo		11:53
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo		11:55
*** povbot has quit IRC		11:55
*** L0cutus has quit IRC		12:02
*** christefano has quit IRC		12:03
*** greentux has joined #maemo		12:08
*** X-Fade_ has joined #maemo		12:11
pupnik_	I want n9x0 to have: omap3230 @800mhz max, 256MB RAM, transflective screen, 2x Micro-SDHC slots, multi-boot loader and boot from either SDHC, charging XOR operation off USB power, HDMI OUT, 1-2M camera, OpenGL2.0 ES and OpenGL support, open-source accelerated media playback, an OpenGL UI, hardware key (or combo) for right click, improved GPS or NO gps, longer battery life, framebuffer vsync @50-60fps from userspace, hardshell case.	12:11
Khertan_TheReal	argggg !!!!!!!!	12:12
keesj	TheRealAAAAAAAAAAAAAArg	12:12
Khertan_TheReal	i still not get enough entropy !	12:12
KotCzarny	hrm	12:12
*** Khertan_TheReal is now known as TheRealArrrrrg		12:12
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo		12:12
KotCzarny	pupnik, how about accelerometer?	12:13
pupnik_	I'll take it	12:13
forge	Pupnik, those sound nice but yeah, accelerometer would be nice	12:13
KotCzarny	and gaming buttons	12:13
TheRealArrrrrg	xterm with top + mp3 playing + mplayer playing a divx + some random click with stylus ....	12:13
keesj	and a head mount	12:14
GeneralAntilles	OMAP3230?	12:14
pupnik_	gaming buttons would ruin the image for target market, but gaming compatible dpad, and the slide out keyboard would work well	12:14
inz	Khertan, qh325oi3h 65oi8w3p4t987qw98ry67q8923pq5b328954v q4389 ty34p9 62389nwt58 p9e47as t86p498e6w89p3a74esa98t7pe48 t6awer	12:14
inz	Khertan, there's some entropy for you	12:14
GeneralAntilles	The OMAP3440'll kill battery life.	12:14
*** alextreme has joined #maemo		12:15
KotCzarny	inz: your entropy has suspiciously many 8s	12:15
pupnik_	GeneralAntilles: would you be fine with a thicker unit than the n810?	12:15
GeneralAntilles	Yes	12:15
inz	Kot, well, in random that can happed	12:15
GeneralAntilles	and larger overall	12:15
GeneralAntilles	The thickness of the N800's hump is fine with me.	12:16
pupnik_	how about two different back covers for diff size batteries? one thin, one thick?	12:16
KotCzarny	how about battery integrated in back cover?	12:16
TheRealArrrrrg	not a great idea	12:17
GeneralAntilles	That sounds more complicated than it needs to be.	12:17
KotCzarny	nope	12:17
KotCzarny	some phones utilize that for a few years already	12:17
TheRealArrrrrg	with the actual one u can find easily other battery as it the same as some other nokia's phone	12:17
GeneralAntilles	I'd rather see a thicker default unit that utilizes the additional thickness for cool stuff.	12:17
GeneralAntilles	beyond just a bigger battery.	12:17
KotCzarny	or just a piggy back second battery	12:18
KotCzarny	using standard plug	12:18
GeneralAntilles	Really, I want a 3.5", 4.1" and 7" model.	12:18
pupnik_	omap has some nice media acceleration: anybody know how open TI is with the libraries for it?	12:18
pupnik_	GeneralAntilles: good idea :)	12:18
KotCzarny	pupnik: sdk is available for opengl es	12:18
GeneralAntilles	Maybe make the 4.1" a 4.5", get rid of a little bezel and do 1024x600	12:18
mysc	do those 2.5 drive cases (case logic, iomega) fit the n800? the internal dims say 5.5" on the long side and n800 is 5.625"	12:19
KotCzarny	but it's up to manufacturer to include drivers	12:19
GeneralAntilles	pupnik_, it's more an issue of the PowerVR guys than TI.	12:19
GeneralAntilles	Oh, you mean IVA2?	12:19
GeneralAntilles	Dunno about that	12:19
inz	on-the-fly replaceable batteries and bundled battery charger and secondary battery	12:19
GeneralAntilles	but OMAP3 is more open overall than previous OMAPs.	12:19
pupnik_	i believe omap3430 has media acceleration that is not in the powervr, but i'm going from glitchy memory	12:19
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: larger screen size, slightly larger overall would be a winner for me	12:19
GeneralAntilles	inz, a fat-cap for battery swapping would be great.	12:19
*** simboss_ has quit IRC		12:19
GeneralAntilles	mysc, I've got a 2.5" case logic case.	12:19
TheRealArrrrrg	an integrated dynamo ... too :)	12:20
GeneralAntilles	Absolutely perfect fit for N800 + iGo	12:20
pupnik_	inz wow, on the fly - kewl :)	12:20
TheRealArrrrrg	and 1Go of Ram	12:20
TheRealArrrrrg	:)	12:20
pupnik_	no, ram consumes battery	12:20
mysc	GA, one for each i presume?	12:20
GeneralAntilles	No	12:20
GeneralAntilles	One for both	12:20
TheRealArrrrrg	pupnik > it s why i want a dynamo :)	12:20
mysc	??	12:20
GeneralAntilles	http://www.amazon.com/CaseLogic-Small-External-Drive-Case/dp/B000HDJT4S	12:20
GeneralAntilles	Best Buy carries them in-store.	12:20
* pupnik_ buys TheRealArrrrrg an exercise bicycle with dynamo		12:20
TheRealArrrrrg	and more important ... a better random generator ... to be able to create gpg key more easily ...	12:21
inz	pupnik, that would be great, but I guess no one will implement it	12:21
mysc	how does that fit an n800 and an igo? (do you mean the igo ultra-slim?)	12:21
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo		12:21
GeneralAntilles	3.5" at 800x480 (Mylo 2 proved this works) 4.1-4.5" at 1024x600 and 7" at 1280x768	12:22
GeneralAntilles	Whichever the 2-fold iGo is.	12:22
GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13389	12:22
mysc	hard exterior, ga?	12:23
GeneralAntilles	Hard fabric, basically.	12:23
GeneralAntilles	It'll hold up fine in a backback or something	12:23
GeneralAntilles	Hard foam, actually.	12:23
mysc	aha, thanks. wonder why a hard case never caught on...alum or other	12:24
GeneralAntilles	I toss a 770 and my iGo in there when I'm traveling (N800 stays in my pocket).	12:24
mysc	is there an easy patch to increase os2008 128mb swap limit?	12:24
GeneralAntilles	Linux!	12:25
GeneralAntilles	Not really much point, though.	12:25
GeneralAntilles	Flash is slow.	12:25
KotCzarny	mysc: if you need more flash then you are something wrong	12:25
KotCzarny	erm, more swap	12:26
KotCzarny	doing	12:26
hrw	GeneralAntilles: flash is not slow - jffs2 is	12:26
GeneralAntilles	jffs2 has nothing to do with the SD cards.	12:26
GeneralAntilles	Flash is slow to use as RAM.	12:26
hrw	ah	12:26
hrw	sory - did not read	12:26
KotCzarny	writes of 512b to a blocks with 128kb erase size sucks	12:26
GeneralAntilles	:P	12:27
RST38h	swap != ram	12:27
RST38h	swap is written in pages	12:27
hrw	I do not use swap in current desktop	12:27
*** X-Fade has quit IRC		12:27
mysc	so you all don't set up virtual memory (swap) on os2008 on the internal sd?	12:28
mysc	this is a boot off an sd, not off the flash, btw	12:28
*** rm_you has joined #maemo		12:28
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo		12:29
GeneralAntilles	mysc, yes, swap on internal.	12:29
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, yes, I know swap isn't RAM. . . .	12:29
KotCzarny	sd is a flash too	12:30
KotCzarny	:)	12:30
mysc	anyways, with oowriter open on my debian chroot, i have little mem left...	12:30
KotCzarny	people start using onenand to describe internal flash	12:31
KotCzarny	1n&	12:32
KotCzarny	:>	12:32
*** hugolp has joined #maemo		12:32
mysc	GA, how close to a laptop kb is that igo one?	12:34
GeneralAntilles	Not very	12:34
GeneralAntilles	Only 4-row	12:34
KotCzarny	if you had toshiba laptop	12:34
KotCzarny	it's similiar	12:34
KotCzarny	but numbers and f-keys are accessible with fn combo	12:35
*** patoh has quit IRC		12:35
KotCzarny	there is a model with numbers included	12:35
mysc	i can't decide between that and the 3-fold one with numbers	12:35
KotCzarny	could be more useful for some	12:35
KotCzarny	get more keys	12:35
KotCzarny	:)	12:35
GeneralAntilles	mysc, iGo + Apple	12:36
GeneralAntilles	iGo for portable, Apple for fullsize.	12:36
GeneralAntilles	"fullsize laptop"	12:36
mysc	i now use a usb full kb, but i am worried that the cable movement is going to break the mini-b connector on the nit	12:37
* KotCzarny would like a kb with a trackpoint		12:38
mysc	yeah, that would be great	12:38
KotCzarny	ibm had them	12:38
mysc	bt?	12:38
KotCzarny	usb	12:38
mysc	is there a maemo (linux) driver for it?	12:39
KotCzarny	no driver needed i think	12:39
GeneralAntilles	pckeyboard.com	12:40
GeneralAntilles	Unicomp makes 'em	12:40
mysc	i worry, that the shuffling of the cable will loosen the connector though. the nokia dongle is very stiff	12:42
KotCzarny	No Longer Available	12:42
KotCzarny	for a http://pckeyboards.stores.yahoo.net/migmousblac.html	12:42
KotCzarny	and price is sick	12:42
KotCzarny	110$	12:42
*** jpetersen has joined #maemo		12:43
mysc	$110? nuts	12:43
GeneralAntilles	I've got a couple of their USB "Model M" keyboard	12:44
GeneralAntilles	they make fantastic stuff	12:44
mysc	speaking of nuts, 16GB sd's...still in the $70s	12:44
GeneralAntilles	Nuts?	12:44
GeneralAntilles	You're kidding, right?	12:44
GeneralAntilles	Look at the price of a 16GB CF	12:44
GeneralAntilles	Besides, they were $140 4 months ago.	12:45
RST38h	$70 is only $45 in 2001 USD	12:45
RST38h	So it's cheap	12:45
mysc	now, what's really nuts are the prices on SSD drives...that's a seagate move though	12:46
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC		12:46
KotCzarny	yeah	12:46
KotCzarny	ssd is 500$+ stuff	12:46
KotCzarny	:)	12:46
KotCzarny	if you stumble on anything cheaper it's old and slow	12:47
KotCzarny	i would like memory cards/drives with a raw access to the flash chip	12:48
KotCzarny	:)	12:48
mysc	Kot, i know why you were so up on booting off sd. it is a lot faster #1, you have the added space #2, and you can mount it as usb if you boot from flash....	12:48
KotCzarny	:)	12:48
KotCzarny	and if you fsck something up it's easier to fix	12:48
mysc	yep	12:49
pupnik_	and you can back up with simple 'dd' command	12:49
KotCzarny	no mtd magic needed, indeed	12:49
*** foka has joined #maemo		12:49
mysc	right. dd is not space saavy though. why not just use tar?	12:49
KotCzarny	and you can intantly have many version of os	12:49
KotCzarny	with just a swap of card	12:50
KotCzarny	:)	12:50
KotCzarny	mysc: dd \| gzip	12:50
KotCzarny	:)	12:50
mysc	tar \| tar :)	12:50
KotCzarny	i like lzo though	12:50
TheRealArrrrrg	someone have try mCalendar ?	12:50
*** greentux has quit IRC		12:50
KotCzarny	16gb cf is 60-70$	12:51
KotCzarny	32gb cf is 140$	12:51
KotCzarny	:)	12:51
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: BTW, have you done a grep for RX-44 in the diablo file system, and then checked to see if there are any references to other hardware models as well?	12:51
mysc	i was so happy when i saw LyX in the "working apps" list, but it's an empty garage :)	12:51
KotCzarny	mysc: probably you have to grab the source and compile	12:52
KotCzarny	or just search harder	12:52
mysc	it is dependency hell, it relies on tex, and might be qt based	12:53
KotCzarny	:)	12:53
mysc	plus i've not set up my sdk yet and started down the path of porting.	12:53
KotCzarny	no 64gb cfs, hum	12:54
mysc	getting qt libs on maemo would be neat, would open up a lot of options	12:54
mysc	ok - gotta run. cheers.	12:55
*** foka_ has joined #maemo		12:55
*** mysc has quit IRC		12:56
KotCzarny	32gb sd is 700$	12:57
KotCzarny	:>	12:57
KotCzarny	correction, 270$ for a sandisk ultra ii	12:58
KotCzarny	nice	12:58
*** bergie has quit IRC		13:03
*** sp3000 has joined #maemo		13:07
*** gopi has quit IRC		13:08
*** foka_ has quit IRC		13:08
KotCzarny	http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/electrolaptops_2001_12028964	13:09
KotCzarny	mm	13:09
*** foka has quit IRC		13:11
*** slomo_ has quit IRC		13:12
KotCzarny	http://www.primelec.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/SFV/31734/vpid/4883873/vpcsid/0/rid/124330	13:14
KotCzarny	hrm	13:14
KotCzarny	interesting	13:14
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo		13:17
KotCzarny	power rating 5v, 1.5a, lol	13:17
*** bergie has joined #maemo		13:18
*** balrog-kun has joined #maemo		13:24
*** Gnuton has joined #maemo		13:24
Gnuton	hi	13:24
*** rm_you has quit IRC		13:25
anidel	hi	13:26
cy3o3	HAI	13:27
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo		13:27
*** Gnuton has quit IRC		13:28
*** red-zack has joined #maemo		13:28
*** Gnuton has joined #maemo		13:29
*** hugolp has quit IRC		13:29
*** guenther has joined #maemo		13:32
*** sven-tek has joined #maemo		13:32
TheRealArrrrrg	what do u think of my new site : khertan.net ?	13:36
KotCzarny	is it for khertans from all over the world?	13:36
*** balrog-k1n has quit IRC		13:37
TheRealArrrrrg	there is only one :)	13:37
KotCzarny	then it's not .net	13:37
KotCzarny	:)	13:37
*** ijon_ has quit IRC		13:37
TheRealArrrrrg	yes but when i ve try to registered 5 years ago my domain ...	13:38
KotCzarny	don't mind me	13:38
KotCzarny	:)	13:38
TheRealArrrrrg	between the time i make a search if domain is available ... and register it ... 10 min ... there is parking domain company which register .com and .org ...	13:38
KotCzarny	domain parking is evil.	13:39
jku_	that's probably not actual parking...	13:39
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo		13:39
TheRealArrrrrg	and .com is more for commercials things ... .org for organization ... and .fr for french company ... so .net is a better choice i think	13:40
jku_	they can make a "reservation" for some time (maybe two weeks?) in the hopes you'd buy the domain you just searched for	13:40
jku_	it's still evil though	13:40
TheRealArrrrrg	it was 5 years ago ... and they have bought it for one year	13:41
TheRealArrrrrg	not a reservation ...	13:41
jku_	wow, nice business model they have	13:41
TheRealArrrrrg	now i make my search only at gandi ...	13:41
TheRealArrrrrg	jku_ > yes :)	13:41
TheRealArrrrrg	http://browsershots.org/	13:42
TheRealArrrrrg	oups ww	13:42
*** geaaru has quit IRC		13:43
TheRealArrrrrg	pfff msie is still the same stupid browser http://browsershots.org/screenshots/45b9619fb1e16d514af50088ac87d137/	13:44
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		13:48
*** lardman has joined #maemo		13:49
lardman	morning all	13:49
*** setanta has quit IRC		13:50
*** huats has quit IRC		13:53
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		13:54
*** setanta has joined #maemo		13:54
*** ustunozgur has joined #maemo		13:55
*** simboss_ has joined #maemo		13:56
lardman	lcuk: did you get my email?	13:56
anidel	who ? :)	13:57
anidel	oh sorry :	13:57
anidel	:)	13:57
anidel	I'm hungry... need to eat	13:57
lardman	mmm, bacon	13:57
anidel	:) going for lunch bye	13:58
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo		14:00
*** ustunozgur_ has joined #maemo		14:09
*** msanchez has quit IRC		14:12
lcuk	lardman, yes :) not in time though, i had 2 days to respond but arrived back after 3. ive mailed them and asked to reactivate it (though the language barrier was a problem)	14:18
pupnik_	hi lcuk how goes it	14:21
*** SDuensin has quit IRC		14:21
lardman	lcuk: It will probably just come back to me	14:22
lardman	lcuk: so I can send it again if you want	14:22
lcuk	its good actually, i was able to take lots of notes over the last week and even managed to hack a bit at the program to compile on device	14:22
lardman	anyone else need a ticket?	14:22
pupnik_	to what	14:22
lardman	LinuxTag	14:22
lcuk	lardman, i didnt reply, i sent it to the address they gave if there are any problem	14:22
pupnik_	quim said speakers get in free. do you know if that is correct lcuk?	14:23
lardman	lcuk: I meant the ticket will come back to me	14:23
lardman	pupnik_: yep, but you do need a ticket though	14:23
lardman	a free one	14:23
pupnik_	how do i get?	14:23
lardman	would you like one?	14:23
lardman	:)	14:23
pupnik_	yes	14:23
lardman	send me an email	14:23
*** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik		14:23
X-Fade_	Hmm I need to get one too. Totally forgot about that ;)	14:24
pupnik	prvmsg?	14:24
lardman	yep that's fine	14:24
* lcuk now knows EXACTLY what he wants to do with his 810 :)		14:24
lardman	X-Fade_: likewise, send me an email, I've got ~7 left iitc	14:24
lardman	iirc	14:24
trickie_	lardman: ta for mine, i know keesj was looking for one	14:24
X-Fade_	lardman: niels @ maemo ;)	14:24
lcuk	lardman, its a bit tough to get into specifics now cos ive got a butty in one hand and im at work, if you pop on tonight we can go through some more specifics	14:25
*** ustunozgur has quit IRC		14:25
*** Gnuton has quit IRC		14:26
*** sven-tek has quit IRC		14:28
lcuk	i dont think ill get into the linux convention with or without a ticket anyway. ive got a suntan - they will think i am a spy. linux folks keep themselves closetted away	14:28
*** simboss_ is now known as simboss		14:29
lardman	lcuk: oh	14:29
lardman	lcuk: I thought you were supposed to be presenting though?	14:29
lcuk	i am, it was a joke :P	14:29
* lcuk remembers that irc isnt the best medium		14:30
lardman	ok, sorry, trying to do too many things atm, sarcasm filter is off line!	14:30
lardman	:)	14:30
GeneralAntilles	lcuk == JOKE FAIL	14:31
lcuk	damn	14:31
lardman	X-Fade_: I before E- triple checked	14:31
lardman	X-Fade_: enroute through the ether	14:32
X-Fade_	yep niels ;)	14:32
lcuk	so lardman, have you actually got tickets waiting there, or is it something we still need to contact ltag directly for	14:32
X-Fade_	I know it is hard, whenever I'm on holiday my name changes to Neil ;)	14:32
lardman	I was given 10	14:32
lardman	to distribute	14:32
GeneralAntilles	Haha, X-Fade_.	14:32
lardman	I was also told that Quim will have some, so I don't have to search out all the presenters	14:33
GeneralAntilles	Why was lardman given 10? I don't think that's fair. :P	14:33
lardman	I'm presenting, and I asked	14:33
lardman	on the mailing list, if you remember my alterego - Simon Pickering	14:33
X-Fade_	GeneralAntilles: I stopped caring actually, that is a battle I will never win :P	14:33
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, sure . . . brownnoser. :P	14:33
* Jaffa curses damned cousin getting married, now		14:33
lardman	:)	14:33
GeneralAntilles	Poor Jaffa	14:34
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo		14:34
Jaffa	So inconsiderate.	14:34
GeneralAntilles	Blow it off, live a little. ;)	14:34
Jaffa	...by going to a Linux conference? Yeeeesss.	14:35
lcuk	dont tell them its a linux conference then - tell them you are going to a conservation meeting - save the penguin	14:35
*** JussiP has joined #maemo		14:38
*** Trbs810 has joined #Maemo		14:39
*** tortoise_ has joined #maemo		14:40
lardman	lcuk: I've just read the blurb on the ticket and it says you have to accept within 48h otherwise it comes back to me	14:40
lardman	lcuk: so let me know if I should send you another one	14:40
*** z72ka has quit IRC		14:42
*** l7 has quit IRC		14:44
*** Alendit_ has joined #maemo		14:44
lcuk	lardman, i sent a mail back to tickets@linuxtag.org without realising it was directed from you, if they havent responded by tonight then could you just activate another one to me please	14:47
KotCzarny	VIDEO: [] 160x120 24bpp 15.004 fps 6913.9 kbps (844.0 kbyte/s)	14:49
KotCzarny	d'oh.	14:49
lardman	lcuk: yep, email me this evening and tell me one way or another; I'll be out but will check when I get back in	14:51
hrw	hmm.. according to http://tabletblog.com/2008/05/3rd-anniversary-special-timeline-from.html 770 box was changed in half of 2006 year	14:55
hrw	my 770 from 2007 has old box anyway	14:55
lardman	hrw: did you get my email?	14:56
KotCzarny	hrw: maybe you got a refurb?	14:56
KotCzarny	:)	14:56
*** jeez_ has joined #maemo		14:58
GeneralAntilles	hrw, I've got both boxes.	14:58
Alendit_	hey	14:58
Alendit_	got some problem here, i've installed chinook on ubuntu following instructions from maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org	14:59
Alendit_	now i can't get source of package with 'can't locate controllib.pl in @INC'	15:00
Alendit_	any ideas what should i do?	15:00
hrw	lardman: Lt2008 one?	15:00
lardman	hrw: yep	15:00
hrw	lardman: got it - sorry for lack of answer	15:00
hrw	lardman: I have to talk with boss - will know on monday ;(	15:00
lardman	hrw: I've been away, was wondering if my email had gone wrong	15:00
lardman	hrw: np, will save you one if you want	15:01
hrw	KotCzarny: there was no 'refurbished' info there	15:01
KotCzarny	hidden refurb?	15:01
hrw	KotCzarny: but it does not matter anyway	15:01
KotCzarny	serviced unit?	15:02
KotCzarny	maybe warehouse spare?	15:02
hrw	I got it for free - boxed, never opened etc	15:04
KotCzarny	:)	15:04
KotCzarny	could be warehouse spare	15:04
*** benh has joined #maemo		15:05
hrw	maybe	15:05
*** Trbs810 has quit IRC		15:05
*** ijon_ has quit IRC		15:06
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		15:10
*** geaaru has quit IRC		15:14
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		15:15
*** Sakkath has joined #maemo		15:15
Sakkath	what wireless driver does n800 use	15:15
lardman	a closed source one	15:16
Sakkath	airodump-ng is too wide for osso_xterm and i can't see the ESSID	15:16
Sakkath	lardman: so I can't do iwlist scanning?	15:16
lardman	I'm not an expert on it; anyone else know?	15:16
X-Fade_	I think it should be able to do iwlist scanning.	15:18
X-Fade_	monitor mode is a different matter ;)	15:18
Sakkath	it says iface doesn't support scanning--i've even tried ifconfig wlan0 up	15:19
*** andre___ has joined #maemo		15:19
*** lmoura has joined #maemo		15:19
hrw	Nokia-N810-50-2:~# iwlist wlan0 scanning\|grep Cell\|wc 4 20 188	15:20
hrw	4 networks found	15:20
Sakkath	well	15:21
Sakkath	it seems after i've run airodump my regular gui wireless tool can't pick up networks	15:21
Sakkath	i donno how to fix it so i'll just restart	15:21
KotCzarny	there was a tool on maemo.org to reset wifi to normal state	15:22
KotCzarny	forgot the name though	15:22
*** luck^ has joined #maemo		15:22
Sakkath	KotCzarny: if you ever find out let me know, even if i'm not on this chan i'm always on freenode =]	15:23
KotCzarny	well	15:23
KotCzarny	just google for it	15:23
KotCzarny	:)	15:23
Sakkath	ok	15:23
Sakkath	later gonna take a long time to pinpoint that one out	15:24
KotCzarny	pingpoint	15:24
*** huats has joined #maemo		15:24
GeneralAntilles	http://behindmaemolines.blogspot.com/2007/10/resetwlan-for-n800.html	15:25
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo		15:26
hrw	GeneralAntilles: no link there	15:26
KotCzarny	probably reinserts the module and runs wlan-cal	15:26
KotCzarny	or something	15:26
KotCzarny	:)	15:26
GeneralAntilles	hrw, it's a starting point.	15:26
GeneralAntilles	a starting point is better than nothing.	15:26
hrw	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/resetwlan/	15:26
Sakkath	GeneralAntilles: hrw thanks!	15:27
Sakkath	and hrw*	15:27
KotCzarny	and me?	15:27
Sakkath	yeah always thanks to you KotCzarny you've helped me more than anyone in this channel since i got my n800 :P	15:28
KotCzarny	:)	15:28
KotCzarny	wanna my paypal donate link?	15:28
KotCzarny	;)	15:28
Sakkath	i laughed in real life	15:29
KotCzarny	:)	15:29
*** wms has joined #maemo		15:30
Sakkath	what about havnig airodump-ng not be so wide or make it fit some other way	15:30
KotCzarny	change font in term	15:30
Sakkath	oh, nice	15:30
guenther	GeneralAntilles: Thanks! :)	15:30
*** summatusmentis has quit IRC		15:32
KotCzarny	ok, i should get me some sleep, night people	15:32
Sakkath	can you set a proxy ?	15:32
*** playya has quit IRC		15:32
hrw	~curse repository.maemo.org	15:32
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, repository.maemo.org !	15:32
simboss	guys quick question... I am trying to repackage a debianized app for the n800 using the source, but I am getting this trange error	15:33
simboss	gpg: Can't check signature: public key not found	15:33
simboss	dpkg-source: failure: md5sum swig1.3_1.3.35.orig.tar.gz failed with unknown exit	15:33
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: qgil's gone and slapped down our N900 fun ;-/	15:33
X-Fade_	lol :)	15:34
GeneralAntilles	Bastard!	15:34
Sakkath	wait i got it nevermind	15:34
*** Alendit_ has quit IRC		15:35
GeneralAntilles	guenther, ?	15:36
guenther	I am Karsten Bräckelmann, one of the maemo.org bugmaster.	15:37
guenther	Thanks for that ITT comment about closing bugs fixed in Diablo.	15:37
guenther	I wholeheartedly agree. :)	15:37
GeneralAntilles	I was a little disturbed to find so many old, resolved ones left unresolved when I went through a few days ago.	15:38
GeneralAntilles	Putting some of the itT eyes on the issue should help, hopefully.	15:38
guenther	One thing Andre and me want to change are devs commenting in bugzilla.	15:38
guenther	But until we got that done...	15:39
guenther	Community action is just cool!	15:39
GeneralAntilles	What, progress on #630? :P	15:39
florian	hi guenther	15:39
hrw	Jaffa: ?	15:39
anidel	hi guys	15:39
guenther	Also, I agree on the permission bits.	15:39
* sp3000 is a click-happy idiot and joins "#630?"		15:39
anidel	finally I've eaten :)	15:39
hrw	#2899?	15:40
GeneralAntilles	Good job, sp3000!	15:40
guenther	If anyone believes he deserves bugzilla permission bits, feel free to poke me!	15:40
GeneralAntilles	guenther, would there, perhaps, be a more formalized permission bit acquisition system coming that I could point people towards?	15:40
lardman	Some of the bugs are a bit airy-fairy too, complaints but no suggestions about what to do to fix them	15:40
guenther	GeneralAntilles: probably not	15:40
guenther	I am hanging out in here regularly.	15:41
AStorm	sp3000: don't forget to check out #0,1 while you're at it	15:41
sp3000	:þ	15:41
guenther	I believe this is a good place to discus this, too. Lacking a dedicated #maemo-bugs channel. ;)	15:41
sp3000	if 0,1 looked like a likely bug number I might ;)	15:41
* guenther waits for sp3000 to join there		15:41
GeneralAntilles	guenther, just point them in your's or andre's direction, then?	15:41
anidel	:)	15:41
guenther	GeneralAntilles: yep	15:41
AStorm	sp3000: what about the master bug #0 ?	15:42
GeneralAntilles	Sounds good, then.	15:42
*** mk8 has quit IRC		15:42
guenther	We are here for you! We want a strong community, and will help in any way we can.	15:42
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo		15:42
sp3000	AStorm: that actually does link to bug 0 in this client :)	15:42
anidel	guenther: good :)	15:43
AStorm	sp3000: lol	15:43
Sakkath	it's hard to tell because airodump reports things falsley sometimes	15:43
guenther	florian, anidel: hi	15:43
anidel	guardian, hi	15:43
Sakkath	such as, this open one is reported as wpa2	15:43
anidel	ops	15:43
anidel	guenther, hi :)	15:43
* AStorm updates wine to 1.0-rc1 and goes to play Planeescape		15:43
* sp3000 didn't notice the lack of 'bug' near '#630'		15:43
AStorm	ok people	15:43
hrw	AStorm: Torment?	15:43
Sakkath	falsely	15:43
AStorm	hrw: is there any other? :P	15:43
hrw	AStorm: wanted to be sure	15:44
hrw	AStorm: I bought it ~5 years ago and never had time to finish	15:44
guenther	Now, if I would figure out how to register...	15:44
AStorm	ok, I'll set up remote X	15:44
AStorm	and play it on N	15:44
hrw	AStorm: do you have 'rigthclickbuttone'?	15:45
AStorm	640x480, right?	15:45
AStorm	does it run on GemRB?	15:45
AStorm	hrw: how do I add them?	15:45
hrw	AStorm: according to pupnik n900 will have one ;) (at least he wants it)	15:46
*** booiiing__ has joined #maemo		15:46
AStorm	well, I could use a right click modifier key	15:46
AStorm	that turns a left click into right one	15:46
AStorm	possible in software?	15:46
KotCzarny	astorm: use xvkbd	15:46
KotCzarny	:)	15:46
KotCzarny	i have added this hack to it	15:46
AStorm	KotCzarny: yeah, and it'll right click for me?	15:47
AStorm	:P	15:47
KotCzarny	no, it swaps left and right mb	15:47
AStorm	it won't fir anyway	15:47
KotCzarny	:)	15:47
* andre___ comes out of a meeting and fully agrees with every guenther has written here		15:47
AStorm	naah, can't	15:47
KotCzarny	anyway, it's a matter of xmodmap	15:47
*** cmarcelo has joined #maemo		15:48
AStorm	I need both keys	15:48
KotCzarny	map some key to exec a script that will swap the mb	15:48
AStorm	hmmmm	15:48
AStorm	that could worj :)	15:48
KotCzarny	i know	15:48
AStorm	*work	15:49
KotCzarny	but i should be in bed	15:49
KotCzarny	night.	15:49
AStorm	heh, it's 1500 here ;)	15:49
AStorm	night	15:49
anidel	night	15:50
*** kenne has joined #maemo		15:50
*** Jonashdsf has quit IRC		15:51
*** ramo102 has joined #maemo		15:51
*** Jonashdsf has joined #maemo		15:52
GeneralAntilles	Anybody know if there's a 64x64 question mark version of this lying around? https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Image:Maemo_Info_icon.png	15:52
Stskeeps	hm. does n800/n810 support WMM/WME? i'm having odd problems with my n800 draining a lot of power when at home, and just discovered WME/WMM is disabled on my home router.	15:52
Stskeeps	but not when i'm connected for instance to the uni wlan :)	15:52
anidel	GA: there should be.. mmm	15:52
GeneralAntilles	Alternatively, can you think of a good maemo icon for "Troubleshooting"?	15:53
AStorm	Stskeeps: it does	15:54
AStorm	that's the power saving option	15:54
Stskeeps	that'll explain i guess.. will just run a idle wifi test to see if that was it	15:56
*** summatusmentis has joined #maemo		15:56
Stskeeps	it's good to know something like that before deploying the same router+wifi device set to patients :>	15:56
AStorm	can't wait for the memristor to shrink electronics 100x	15:57
*** summatusmentis_ has joined #maemo		16:00
*** booiiing_ has quit IRC		16:00
*** simon_ has quit IRC		16:01
GeneralAntilles	Just need one more for troubleshooting. . . . https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Main_Page	16:02
TheRealArrrrrg	Hi ... again	16:02
*** TheRealArrrrrg is now known as Khertan_42		16:03
GeneralAntilles	42? You have the answer? :P	16:03
Khertan_42	yes ...	16:03
Khertan_42	do u have the question ?	16:03
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: none of the device?	16:03
*** Jonashdsf has quit IRC		16:03
GeneralAntilles	qgn_list_cp_devicesetup.png might work	16:04
*** cktakahasi has joined #maemo		16:04
guenther	hmm... "Junior Member". How embarrassing. :)	16:04
GeneralAntilles	100 posts	16:05
GeneralAntilles	Spam, spam, spam! :P	16:05
guenther	hah	16:05
GeneralAntilles	There it is!	16:05
GeneralAntilles	qgn_list_help.png	16:05
* GeneralAntilles <3 CoverFlow		16:05
Jaffa	That reminds me. Must raise a MediaBox bug	16:07
GeneralAntilles	Alright, there it is: https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Main_Page	16:07
Khertan_42	is there a documentation somewhere on how to make a hires icon in a .desktop on maemo.org ?	16:07
RST38h	Khertan: maemo.org, Documentation, Tutorials, 4.x	16:08
RST38h	Khertan: It is an SVG icon (use Inkscape to edit) of the size described in the above tutorial	16:08
*** Jonashdsf has joined #maemo		16:09
*** vcgomes has joined #maemo		16:11
*** lardman is now known as lardman\|gone		16:12
*** SDuensin has joined #Maemo		16:12
*** summatusmentis has quit IRC		16:12
*** summatusmentis_ is now known as summatusmentis		16:12
*** benh has quit IRC		16:14
*** krau has quit IRC		16:15
*** fr01 has left #maemo		16:16
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: could do with some padding or something, or the icons precededing the titles in the text boxes	16:18
*** fr01 has joined #maemo		16:19
*** renato_ has joined #maemo		16:19
GeneralAntilles	The icons went weird with the title boxes when I right-aligned them.	16:20
GeneralAntilles	Which was unexpected, but not entirely undesired.	16:20
GeneralAntilles	Though it screws up the rest of the text in the box.	16:20
*** andrunko has joined #maemo		16:21
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: ah, the images have <div class="floatright">	16:21
GeneralAntilles	Added automatically be mediawiki	16:21
Jaffa	Indeed. More brute forced HTML?	16:22
GeneralAntilles	They're [[Image:<name>\|size\|right]]	16:22
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I could, I suppose. :P	16:22
* Jaffa is willing to get his hands dirty. Alternatively, hang on...		16:22
GeneralAntilles	Somebody should come up with a finalized super-catoregy list already. . . . :P	16:23
*** jegp has joined #maemo		16:23
Khertan_42	RST38h > thx	16:23
Khertan_42	is there in the room someone able to do for mCalendar an nice icon of a calendar in SVG ...	16:24
Khertan_42	all my attemps is ... how to say ... horrible ...	16:25
*** simon_ has joined #maemo		16:25
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: just tried to improve it, but on my screen width the titles are now wrapping which isn't very good. What about if they were really faded out so they appeared more like watermarks? Then the text could go over the top	16:26
*** yerga has joined #maemo		16:26
GeneralAntilles	Sounds like a fair plan, Jaffa.	16:26
* Jaffa fires up the GIMP. How much do we care about good rendering in IE (semi-transparent PNGs and all that)		16:27
Khertan_42	ie don't render png correctly ... so forgot ie	16:27
Jaffa	Can fudge it, e.g. Dean Thingy's IE7.js	16:28
GeneralAntilles	Screw IE.	16:28
Jaffa	Goodo	16:28
GeneralAntilles	I say we have a client direction page that redirects them somewhere horrible. :P	16:28
GeneralAntilles	s/gibberish/english/	16:28
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, while you're in Gimp, pad them all out so they're all 64x64	16:29
GeneralAntilles	Some are 64x54 and it's doing weird things.	16:29
Jaffa	yup	16:29
Khertan_42	http://browsershots.org/http://khertan.net/ < ie is the only thing that can't render a web site like other navigator !	16:32
GeneralAntilles	Somebody remind me of the codename after Elephanta?	16:35
Jaffa	Fremantle was mentioned on ITT the other day, but I think that was the first I'd heard of it	16:36
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, wonder what the source is there.	16:37
*** hfwilke has joined #maemo		16:38
*** mysc has joined #maemo		16:38
*** cjohnson has quit IRC		16:38
X-Fade_	I have seen this Fremantle name before, but I don't know if that is the right one.	16:40
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		16:44
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade_, we have an agenda forming for next month's #maemo-meeting, yet?	16:45
X-Fade_	GeneralAntilles: No, I'm open to suggestions though ;)	16:46
X-Fade_	I think we need to keep it within one topic.	16:46
GeneralAntilles	Poor Quim. . . .	16:47
*** fab has joined #maemo		16:47
Khertan_42	what means the different maemo code name ?	16:47
X-Fade_	Well, if we set the topic beforehand, then he can get some people to join that maybe know a bit more about the subject.	16:47
GeneralAntilles	We have a date yet?	16:48
X-Fade_	But I guess we can get some inspiration for topics and date after we have had LinuxTag ;)	16:48
Khertan_42	gregal (it s a boat), bora (an island), chinook (an helicopter	16:48
hrw	~curse omweather author	16:48
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, omweather author !	16:48
GeneralAntilles	Wind, Khertan_4.	16:49
X-Fade_	Khertan_42: No, think names for all kinds of wind types.	16:49
Khertan_42	lol. ...	16:49
Khertan_42	ah there is mistral too !	16:49
X-Fade_	Sure, sirocco too.	16:49
Khertan_42	i should know ... as i ve get mistral for many year in my face	16:50
Khertan_42	:)	16:50
*** oilinki3 has joined #maemo		16:50
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: Damn, background images might need CSS fiddlng. Is the stylesheet in the wiki, do you know (or perhaps X-Fade does)?	16:50
GeneralAntilles	Bug dneary?	16:51
Khertan_42	as i come from the Rhone Valley	16:51
* X-Fade_ thinks LinuxTag is going to be fun		16:51
X-Fade_	Jaffa: I can help out there..	16:51
Jaffa	X-Fade_: I want a number of CSS styles which have https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Image:Maemo_Info_icon-fade.png, https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Image:Maemo_contact_icon-fade.png, https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Image:Maemo_question_icon-fade.png and https://wiki.maemo.org/index.php/Image:Maemo_xterm_icon-fade.png as non-repeating, top-left background images. Putting them as inline styles seems to balk at the url() bit :-(	16:53
*** corq-FL has quit IRC		16:53
X-Fade_	Jaffa: Can you put that in a mail, so I don't forget? I am a bit swamped atm ;)	16:54
Jaffa	X-Fade_: will do, ta.	16:54
*** m-c has joined #maemo		16:55
m-c	does the NIT use a network time client?	16:56
shapr	There is ntpd	16:57
shapr	or is it nntpd?	16:57
summatusmentis	ntpd, iirc	16:57
m-c	okay thanks	16:58
m-c	just checking, because my device was so off	16:58
Jaffa	Oh lord, Darius has jumped into the ITTSS thread with some more random, garbled, stream of conciousness.	16:58
GeneralAntilles	He's so awesome.	16:59
GeneralAntilles	Darius is my hero. <3	16:59
*** oilinki7 has joined #maemo		17:00
*** oilinki7 is now known as oilink1		17:00
*** corq-FL has joined #maemo		17:00
RST38h	GA: So, is he better than meanwhile or whimpier?	17:03
mgedmin	I can't read his HTML-formatted emails, so I've no idea what he's talking about	17:04
*** hugolp has joined #maemo		17:04
GeneralAntilles	Darius >>>>> meanwhile/Umptious	17:04
GeneralAntilles	Though meanwhile also has his merits.	17:05
GeneralAntilles	Darius has simply been at it much longer and accrued much more experience. :D	17:05
Khertan_42	how can i get the public ssh key of my nit	17:05
Khertan_42	i don't remember the commands	17:06
* GeneralAntilles likes lussh for setting up keys.		17:06
*** jeez_ has quit IRC		17:06
summatusmentis	Khertan_42: should be in .ssh/id_rsa.pub	17:06
*** oilinki has quit IRC		17:07
Khertan_42	it should ... but when i look id_rsa.pub it s clearly indicated in the head 'PRIVATE RSA'	17:07
RST38h	you generated keys incorrectly, I guess	17:07
Khertan_42	it s seems ... i ll generate it again...	17:08
Khertan_42	hum ... it s ok now	17:08
*** matt_c has quit IRC		17:08
Khertan_42	sorry ...	17:08
Khertan_42	hum .... so ... bye	17:09
Khertan_42	...	17:09
*** kcomex has joined #maemo		17:09
Khertan_42	week end start now :)	17:09
Khertan_42	leaving the office :)	17:09
*** Khertan_42 has quit IRC		17:09
*** zap has quit IRC		17:11
*** jnettlet has quit IRC		17:14
*** ssvb has joined #maemo		17:15
*** oilinki3 has quit IRC		17:15
*** mourad has joined #maemo		17:16
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo		17:21
*** jeddy3 has quit IRC		17:24
*** matt_c has joined #maemo		17:25
*** zpol has joined #maemo		17:26
*** playya has joined #maemo		17:26
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo		17:26
*** kcome has quit IRC		17:26
*** jpeterse1 has joined #maemo		17:26
zpol	hi	17:26
AStorm	hello	17:27
*** juergbi has joined #maemo		17:32
*** alextreme has quit IRC		17:36
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC		17:42
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo		17:42
*** jpetersen has quit IRC		17:43
*** oilink1 is now known as oilinki		17:45
RST38h	AStorm	17:47
RST38h	qwerty	17:47
qwerty12	hi	17:47
*** TimRiker has joined #maemo		17:47
AStorm	hi	17:49
*** geaaru has quit IRC		17:49
*** ab has quit IRC		17:50
*** Sho_ has quit IRC		17:51
*** hugolp has quit IRC		17:53
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo		17:54
*** gimmal has joined #maemo		17:56
gimmal	rocking, freenode does have a maemo channel. rockin hard! whassup party peoples? ;^)>	17:56
*** Tuco1 has quit IRC		17:56
*** Wizzard has quit IRC		17:57
*** bergie has quit IRC		17:58
gimmal	jus got a N810 here, loving it, despite any "challenges" happening w.r.t it (i.e. big downloads - maemo SDK and the image that I have to get to flash the thing to update it out of the box ....) and then this issue with my fscking 3945ABG wlan card, but that's MSI's fault hehe	17:58
gimmal	big downloads over a multi-used satellite line -- patience is the virtue in question hehe	17:58
*** andre___ has quit IRC		17:58
gimmal	anyone seen something like openoffice for the N810? or some other sort of fancy document editor? abiword?	18:00
qwerty12	~itt	18:00
infobot	rumour has it, itt is the forums on internettablettalk.com ( http://internettablettalk.com/forums )	18:00
m-c	gimmal: freenode seems to have a channel for every cool project, huh? was surprised to see this here too	18:01
Jaffa	gimmal: both have been done. Abiword natively, OOo via a Debian port	18:01
*** Tuco1 has joined #maemo		18:02
gimmal	Jaffa: cool!	18:02
*** ssvb has quit IRC		18:02
gimmal	anyone know of any convenient keywords someone could use to find either of those online? "maemo nokia n810 openoffice.org" didn't seem to result in much, iirc ;^)>	18:02
qwerty12	qole chroot openoffice	18:03
gimmal	qole, ok	18:03
m-c	search the itt forums	18:03
gimmal	thanks	18:03
*** summatusmentis has quit IRC		18:04
qwerty12	But I must warn, it isn't an easy setup by any standards.	18:04
*** Blom has quit IRC		18:04
m-c	http://n800-as-a-professional-tool.blogspot.com/	18:04
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo		18:05
m-c	just like the website name	18:05
gimmal	hmm, captcha required just to do a search ... fun fun ;^p>	18:06
qwerty12	Register	18:06
* RST38h still does not understand who needs openoffice on a tablet		18:06
RST38h	It must bepainfully slow	18:06
* qwerty12 sure don't		18:06
AStorm	RST38h: abiword would be fine	18:06
RST38h	AStorm: exactly	18:06
AStorm	we have gnumeric already	18:06
RST38h	AbiWord+Gnumeric will pretty much implement an office on a tablet	18:07
gimmal	qwerty12: good advice; thank you	18:07
qwerty12	:/	18:07
gimmal	RST38h: it was the first thing came to mind for getting a good document editor	18:07
AStorm	is abiword finally usable?	18:08
RST38h	gimmal: tablets are pretty limited speed-wise and have limited controls	18:08
RST38h	gimmal: so, "getting a good document editor" should be taken with a grain of salt	18:08
gimmal	abiword sounds better, will take a look about it	18:08
gimmal	understood hehe	18:08
*** roope has quit IRC		18:08
qwerty12	But N810 does have a keyboard so it does make it more feasible :)	18:08
RST38h	AStorm: it's author god subsidized under Google Summer of Code program to develop it	18:09
RST38h	s/god/got	18:09
mourad	hello everybody, i tested an example "Listening for connection events" from Maemo Connectivity Guide using Libconic but always i receive same request "disconnect". and i would like know how can i test internet connection from scratchbox? does somone have an idea?	18:09
*** Dasajev has quit IRC		18:09
RST38h	qwerty: It is kinda limited even with a BT keyboard =(	18:09
qwerty12	mourad, from what I can tell, scratchbox doesn't do internet. Best I get to run is wget.	18:09
qwerty12	RST38h, How come? :) (never tried btw)	18:10
RST38h	qwerty: lags a lot	18:10
qwerty12	Ah, ok	18:10
RST38h	And I found that it is not BT connection quality but the total CPU load that causes problems	18:10
RST38h	Still, it will get you by if you REALLY need to edit a document	18:10
qwerty12	CPU load stuff really sucks on tablets, even my application manager locks up rest of the system :/	18:10
RST38h	qwerty: that is not much of a problem	18:11
RST38h	qwerty: but then thing lags when redrawing reasonably large GTK widget hierarchies	18:11
RST38h	And that is real pain because the whole UI starts lagging	18:12
AStorm	RST38h: actually, it's scheduler again:P	18:12
qwerty12	:(	18:12
gimmal	m-c: great link; imo notecase might be more to what I'd be looking for	18:12
AStorm	on my desktop, <2.6.23 lagged a lot on load too	18:12
AStorm	on core2	18:12
AStorm	newer ones don't	18:12
RST38h	AStorm: they should have just used netBSD core =)	18:12
AStorm	nope	18:12
AStorm	it's even worse :P	18:13
AStorm	they should've used a newer version of Linux	18:13
*** andre___ has joined #maemo		18:13
RST38h	BSD has historically been very good at handling interactive tasks	18:14
anidel	yup	18:14
mourad	qwerty12: ok but how can i proceed using "system D-BUS" with C or Python	18:14
AStorm	RST38h: you must be kidding	18:15
anidel	he's not	18:15
AStorm	I use these various BSD	18:15
RST38h	AStorm: No. I have used it for years. It NEVER lags	18:15
AStorm	they suck at interactivity	18:15
RST38h	But with Linux you could immediately tell that the system is busy	18:15
AStorm	they don't lag	18:15
AStorm	because they have input as a kernel thread	18:16
AStorm	they suck in all other ways	18:16
*** setanta has quit IRC		18:16
RST38h	You mean, they do not have the latest bunch of eyecandies installed by default? =)	18:16
AStorm	no	18:16
RST38h	BSDs did not lag long before kernel threads even appeared	18:16
AStorm	I mean they're horribly choppy under load	18:16
RST38h	definitely not my experience	18:16
anidel	AStorm, nope. Linux is..	18:16
AStorm	as in, sound skips	18:16
anidel	I do agree with RST38h	18:16
*** mbuf has joined #maemo		18:17
AStorm	anidel: you can't scam me, I use all the BSDs for server work	18:17
AStorm	and these have X	18:17
AStorm	one is a terminal server	18:17
anidel	I used BSD a lot along with Linux and I found BSD ALWAYS more responsive on have loads	18:17
AStorm	they suck at it, really	18:17
anidel	I've tried Free,Net and Open BSD they all behaved better than Linux	18:18
AStorm	anidel: try 2.6.23 or newer	18:18
anidel	in fact I would have installed BSD on my laptop wasn't it for Maemo	18:18
*** dougt has quit IRC		18:18
AStorm	old O(1) sched sucks	18:18
AStorm	or Staircase for 2.6.21	18:18
AStorm	or RSDL (both Con Kolivas work)	18:18
anidel	didn't compare latest Linux kernel with latest BSD	18:18
RST38h	Well, never Linux version ARE better	18:19
RST38h	Than old Linux versions that is	18:19
timeless	anyone here use osso xterm?	18:19
AStorm	there's a backport of CFS to 2.6.21, from 2.6.24-rcx	18:19
AStorm	than bSD too	18:19
RST38h	Haven't compared them to latest BSDs though	18:19
AStorm	ever tried timidity on bsed?	18:19
anidel	CFS ? crypto file system of what ?	18:19
timeless	i need to enter righht square bracket	18:19
AStorm	anidel: Completely (sic) Fair Scheduler	18:19
RST38h	AStorm: Audio problems may just occur because of an audio driver	18:20
AStorm	Ponly Dragonfly is good enough	18:20
AStorm	RST38h: they don't	18:20
anidel	AStorm, oh .)	18:20
anidel	:)	18:20
timeless	and have limited bandwidth	18:20
AStorm	emu10k is good on BSD	18:20
anidel	timeless, n800 or n810 ?	18:20
*** christefano has joined #maemo		18:20
timeless	n810	18:20
qwerty12	timeless, I thought we all use osso-xterm :P	18:20
anidel	timeless, so the CHR key is your friend :)	18:20
*** greentux has joined #maemo		18:20
timeless	w/ the 800 the soft keyboads offer it	18:21
timeless	anidel no	18:21
anidel	timeless, what ? I do have them	18:21
timeless	it doesn't open the dialog inhis ver	18:21
AStorm	timeless: or write your own keymap	18:21
AStorm	as I did	18:21
anidel	timeless, in which ver ?	18:21
timeless	astorm....	18:21
AStorm	have a Polish one for German layout	18:21
timeless	anidel slightly before 42	18:22
AStorm	it's excellent	18:22
*** liquid217 has joined #maemo		18:22
timeless	i could also switch to my e61i where the chr key works....	18:22
anidel	timeless, I don't know what you're talking about, but if that's a different version I have here, you could try enabling to on-screen keyboard	18:22
trickie_	ha ha... darius... you tripper	18:22
AStorm	that's because hildom-im is stupid	18:23
*** trickie_ has quit IRC		18:23
timeless	osk causes reflows which are very dangerous for screened irc sessions	18:23
AStorm	it only binds to gtk apps	18:23
anidel	gotta leave for a minute	18:23
AStorm	timeless: did I mention rewriting the keymap? it's easy!	18:24
AStorm	make chnr another modifier :)	18:24
AStorm	*chr	18:24
*** roope has joined #maemo		18:25
*** liquid217 has quit IRC		18:30
AStorm	wonder why Nokia didn't do that from the start	18:30
timeless	just so i can do one task once that i coujld do w another devikce?	18:30
AStorm	the keys would have 4 marks on them	18:30
timeless	have you seen the russian keylayout?	18:30
AStorm	timeless: forever :)	18:30
AStorm	timeless: not yet	18:31
timeless	hrm, please say it exists	18:31
AStorm	it should, there is a keymap	18:32
*** ramo102 has quit IRC		18:32
*** rmoravcik has quit IRC		18:32
hrw	timeless: there is keymap for russian layout	18:33
timeless	https://www.nokiausa.com/A4626059	18:33
gimmal	if only nokia had the lovey-dovey fanbase of apple ... thffffpt ;^)>	18:34
timeless	HW keyboard variants: English, German, French, Italian, Spanish-Portuguese, Scandinavian and Russian	18:34
timeless	the russian variant has one extra thing shown	18:34
gimmal	i mean, there might be more people buying N8**s and more momentum about stuff like getting abiword working, etc	18:34
timeless	does abiword work on the iphone?	18:35
*** atlas95 has joined #maemo		18:35
*** alextreme has joined #maemo		18:35
gimmal	timeless: dunno, i doubt it. was reading, today, the blog of some guy utterly praising the iphone and deriding the n810, all I know of it hehe	18:36
roope	Yes, the Russian one allows switching between Russian and Eng. layouts.	18:36
roope	Both as a toggle and then temporarily for one or two characters.	18:36
AStorm	gimmal: another guy who got the buyer's syndrome?	18:36
gimmal	AStorm: well, the n810 he got was given to him, he mentioned -- granted, as "payment" for somesuch whatever, but he didn't pay money for it directly. and so he derides it	18:37
timeless	roope, which key nis used for those?	18:37
gimmal	thffffffffffffffpt, about all I can say now; left a comment mentioning that my own experiences with the n810 were not that bad, now just thffffffffffpt ;^)>	18:37
gimmal	~hildon	18:38
gimmal	~maemo	18:38
infobot	from memory, maemo is a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future. http://www.maemo.org/	18:38
gimmal	hildon could be http://live.gnome.org/Hildon/TwoPointZero perhaps?	18:38
*** T0b0tras has joined #maemo		18:39
AStorm	gimmal: hildon is Nokia GTK mobile extension	18:39
roope	timeless: The Chr key is used there quite much.	18:39
RST38h	So, did he find the CHR key?	18:39
roope	Chr + alphabet key in Russian inputs the English character, Chr + alphabet in English inputs the Russian one. (it's a special case kinda).	18:39
gimmal	AStorm: ok; maybe someone has the auth to put that URL into the bot though, I thought - was wondering what hildon was, given that Xournal needed it (found out that I have to flash/update my N810 now, woohoo hehe)	18:40
roope	Chr + Ctrl toggles between English and Russian.	18:40
roope	In normal devices Chr+E runs through é, è, ë etc.	18:40
gimmal	ahah, that's what the Chr button is for; kewl	18:40
AStorm	or ę in my keymap	18:40
AStorm	ε is fn+chr :>	18:41
roope	and of course just Chr gives the onscreen special character view.	18:41
AStorm	I disabled that	18:41
AStorm	so now I can use it with accessx stickykeys	18:41
gimmal	<bluesky spam>if I was suddently given a month of from work, I'd port Eclipse IDE to OS2008</etc> man I love dreaming hehe	18:41
RST38h	Urgh	18:42
RST38h	Eclipse<burp>IDE	18:42
AStorm	id10t	18:42
AStorm	there's no java yet	18:42
roope	This is probably a rare case: if anybody wants to blame the 810 device HW keyboard not having a tab key, now it's really 100% fair to blame me. :D	18:43
gimmal	roope: ahah, I see; it's only useful when a text input widget is up, so it only works then, I guess	18:43
AStorm	we'd need gcj and ecj	18:43
AStorm	roope: it's easy to add	18:43
gimmal	AStorm: no java? how does flash work then?	18:43
roope	gimmal: Yeah. Keybaord is for text input.	18:43
AStorm	I've it on chr+space	18:43
timeless	err	18:43
AStorm	gimmal: flash != java	18:43
timeless	tab is useful in dialogs and web pages	18:43
AStorm	timeless: or irc :>	18:44
gimmal	AStorm: indeed, but afaik, flash req'd java support to work	18:44
Jaffa	AStorm: there is Flash, see jalimo. And you don't need gcj to run Eclipse and there's the eRCP to build on	18:44
AStorm	no, who told you that?	18:44
Jaffa	gimmal: no, Flash doesn't need a Java runtime.	18:44
gimmal	AStorm: anecodtal evidence, hehe -- it was just an impression./ I thought that the Flash browser plugin needed a java browser plugin	18:45
Jaffa	tab's also very useful in a shell - and X Terminal gets shipped by default	18:45
AStorm	Jaffa: :)	18:45
timeless	*** Value of INSERT_MODE set to OFF	18:45
timeless	*** Value of INSERT_MODE set to ON	18:45
AStorm	yes, they should mod the keymap	18:45
gimmal	thought I saw someone mentioning Eclipse's SWT worked on the N810, fwiw	18:45
*** dougt has joined #maemo		18:45
timeless	that's what tab does here	18:46
*** dougt has quit IRC		18:46
AStorm	e.g. fn+space = tab	18:46
hrw	roope: argh you then but not for lack of tab but for two lshift keys	18:46
gimmal	someone in web-land, sure	18:46
AStorm	fn+shift+space = tab	18:46
timeless	i'd hardly call it useful	18:46
Jaffa	gimmal: SWT can indeed run on the N810. Google: jalimo	18:46
AStorm	fn+shift+space = pipe obvioulsy :P	18:46
roope	hrw: I won't take the blame for that. :) But I didn't implement shifts.	18:46
roope	I just wanted two.	18:46
gimmal	jalimo, yes, I recall having read of that; so, it's not java, but it's jalimo, is that a safe conclusion?	18:46
timeless	btw, anyhwone here in berlin?	18:46
*** dougt has joined #maemo		18:47
Jaffa	gimmal: No, Jalimo is a package which bundles Java	18:47
hrw	roope: but why both are LShift? why not LShift + RShift	18:47
roope	rshift would be nice. I guess. ... If ... Well. Actually I don't care about lshift and rshift.	18:47
roope	But yeah, they could be.	18:47
timeless	heh	18:47
roope	I hadn't even noticed that.	18:47
AStorm	hrw: an oversight	18:47
Jaffa	hrw: so both shifts generate the same scancode?!	18:47
roope	So you might say that ... It's the first time I've even heard that.	18:47
hrw	Jaffa: yes ;(	18:47
hrw	roope: I would be able to use RShift as LAlt for example...	18:48
timeless	roope, my main gripe is the \/()* rotation between hw layouts	18:48
timeless	absolutely stupid	18:48
roope	timeless: What do you mean?	18:48
timeless	in some hw layouts it's that	18:48
AStorm	roope: see German vs English	18:48
AStorm	the fn part is somewhat different	18:49
gimmal	burp obex is cool burp ;^P>	18:49
roope	Yes.	18:49
AStorm	in a pointless way too	18:49
timeless	in others it's *\/()	18:49
roope	Have you looked at a german and english full keyboard side by side?	18:49
AStorm	or %\/()	18:49
AStorm	roope: I did, they're almost the same	18:50
gimmal	woop notecase successfully installed	18:50
roope	astorm: Well, that's not really true.	18:50
RST38h	ROOPE: What I would really like to crucify you for (if keyboard is your thing) is lack of the digit keys and an unusable directional pad	18:50
AStorm	yes	18:50
roope	English keyboard puts for instance ? / into quite different places.	18:50
AStorm	they have special keys moved	18:50
roope	rst38h: Sorry, not responsible for the mechanics.	18:50
roope	(I do agree that they aren't good.)	18:51
AStorm	and punctuation	18:51
RST38h	roope: Nokia E70 had them just right, why changing them?	18:51
AStorm	we could use some dots on f and j	18:51
AStorm	and maybe emboss on shift	18:51
roope	rst38h: It's... an interesting question.	18:51
AStorm	and ctrl	18:51
roope	Dots would make it hard to slide in.	18:52
AStorm	I keep missing them in the dark, pressing fn or right shift instead	18:52
hrw	bye guys - have a nice weekend	18:52
*** hrw is now known as hrw\|gone		18:52
Jaffa	cya hrw	18:52
*** armguy has joined #maemo		18:52
*** Zic has joined #maemo		18:52
armguy	hi there	18:53
AStorm	hello	18:53
*** Trbs810 has joined #Maemo		18:53
roope	Then again, no Nokia device has ... (I guess) the exact same kind of keypad area. It's a company thingy.	18:53
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC		18:53
roope	Just look at any phone. There's always some new material or layout or whatever.	18:53
*** BTobotras has quit IRC		18:53
timeless	heh, 'differentiation'	18:54
AStorm	N810 has the exact same mechanics as N95	18:54
AStorm	which are worse than E70	18:54
roope	astorm: Well.....	18:54
AStorm	not much though	18:54
*** ImMelody has joined #maemo		18:55
*** atlas95 has quit IRC		18:55
armguy	I'm having some troubles to setting up a chinook rootstrap on sbox2, all the steps of instalations os going fine, but when I try af-sb-init start, I get a "/etc/osso-af-init/dbus-systembus.sh: line 37: /usr/bin/scratchbox-launcher.sh: No such file or directory" error	18:56
AStorm	I still think the mechanics are excellent for such a tiny keyboard	18:56
roope	E70 has a nice keyboard, yes.	18:57
*** fab_away has joined #maemo		18:57
roope	But we can still do better.	18:57
*** fab_away has quit IRC		18:57
AStorm	yep	18:58
AStorm	the dir key should be broken into sections	18:58
simboss	guys, is there a way to get ldd on the n800?	18:58
*** lardman\|home has joined #maemo		18:58
AStorm	simboss: by installing binutils	18:58
simboss	thx	18:59
simboss	:-)	18:59
* mgedmin uses this hack		18:59
mgedmin	LD_TRACE_LOADED_OBJECTS=1 /lib/ld-linux.so.3 "$1"	18:59
mgedmin	put it in an executable shell script called 'ldd' and stick it into your $PATH	18:59
simboss	I seems to already have	19:00
simboss	binutils installed	19:00
simboss	but no ldd in the path	19:00
* lardman\|home reads reply from Darius Jack with surprise, I always thought he was a bot		19:00
AStorm	blah, nokia charger is driving me nuts with its hifreq squeal	19:00
AStorm	and some "pingy" sound	19:00
AStorm	I think it's 15 kHz	19:01
gimmal	fwiw, notecase is a pretty cool lil app	19:02
*** luogni has quit IRC		19:03
AStorm	screenshot?	19:03
gimmal	hmm, shortly...	19:03
gimmal	got a few of 'em at http://notecase.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html	19:04
* gimmal is going to get a "web 2.0" tatoo. ride the lightening y'all ... thfpt		19:05
*** mysc has quit IRC		19:05
anidel	it really is	19:06
Jaffa	gimmal: oh, nice	19:06
*** mourad has quit IRC		19:07
simboss	guys, sorry to bother, I used the ld-linux hack	19:07
simboss	as a replacement for ldd	19:07
simboss	but i get this	19:07
simboss	../../lib/libkdu_v52R.so: error while loading shared libraries: ../../lib/libkdu	19:07
simboss	_v52R.so: failed to map segment from shared object: Operation not permitted	19:07
simboss	ani hints? ;-(	19:08
*** alex-weej has quit IRC		19:08
*** Relate has quit IRC		19:11
gimmal	simboss: I'm not familiar with ld, but if I was I might ask what your ld-linux hack was for, like what it did that plain ld didn't hehe	19:12
simboss	mmmmhh I guess the problem is that the liv I created did not have x permission	19:12
gimmal	ahaha, sounds good to know hehe	19:12
simboss	mgedmin suggested to use /lib/ld-linux.so.3 instead of ldd	19:12
simboss	wdf, chmod +x is not working :-(	19:13
gimmal	hey, someone should pay Matt Groening to have Homer use an N810	19:13
*** mbuf has quit IRC		19:13
*** kcomex has quit IRC		19:13
gimmal	"doh! portable youtube doh!"	19:13
gimmal	matt groening <-> simpsons creator ; pardon the running dribble here	19:13
gimmal	simboss: does the user you're running it as have ownership of the file?	19:14
AStorm	gimmal: while using Canola :)	19:14
simboss	good question	19:14
*** alextreme has quit IRC		19:14
simboss	I am runnign as root	19:14
simboss	with r&d mode activated	19:14
*** vik_ has quit IRC		19:15
simboss	checking...	19:15
simboss	nope the owner is user	19:15
AStorm	simboss: he's wrong, it won't work	19:15
AStorm	the support isn't built in	19:15
gimmal	AStorm: hmm .. not familiar with Canola, 'cept that there's an oil named like so hehe	19:15
AStorm	:)	19:15
simboss	AStorm: what do you mean?	19:15
AStorm	gimmal: an excellen media manager/player	19:15
AStorm	simboss: :P	19:15
gimmal	AStorm: ah, cool	19:16
mgedmin	simboss: 'ldd' is a shell script on my desktop linux	19:17
*** sergio has quit IRC		19:17
mgedmin	what I pasted here is a short version of that	19:17
*** vivijim has joined #maemo		19:17
mgedmin	all the logic is done by the dynamic linker (/lib/ld-linux.so) anyway	19:17
simboss	mgedmin: thx for that, I did as you suggested :-)	19:18
simboss	I am past that now :-)	19:18
*** gimmal has quit IRC		19:18
simboss	but actually I can't understand why the created .so does not have X fle permission	19:19
mgedmin	.so files normally aren't executable	19:19
*** konttori has joined #maemo		19:19
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC		19:20
simboss	most of them inside the /ur/lib dir are exec and I found a suggestion about	19:21
simboss	when this flag is missing ld-linux woruld die	19:22
m-c	Any interested in packaging a voice conferencing software, Mumble ? :] >> http://mumble.sourceforge.net/	19:23
*** gimmal has joined #maemo		19:23
gimmal		19:23
gimmal		19:23
gimmal	ERC> so, with the maemo sdk installed, would I be able to 1) install jalimo under scratchbox, then 2) check and see if eclipse works under scratchbox, and if it doesn't, then find out why not and fix it?	19:23
*** Mousey has joined #maemo		19:23
gimmal	sorry about the blank puts	19:23
gimmal	had to restart the erc connection - for some unspecified reason the owner of the proxy box restarted it again ;^P>	19:24
*** Dasajev has joined #maemo		19:24
lardman\|home	m-c: I'm sure people would be happy with a tarball in the absence of a .deb	19:24
*** calvaris has quit IRC		19:25
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo		19:25
Jaffa	gimmal: You don't even need to try under scratchbox. Scratchbox is a cross-compiler, but since Eclipse is all Java, you should be good to go	19:26
Jaffa	Ish	19:26
m-c	lardman\|home: the application is already packaged by debian and ubuntu	19:26
m-c	(separately)	19:26
*** JussiP has quit IRC		19:26
lardman\|home	m-c: in which case just copy their patches and use those to do the packaging	19:27
lardman\|home	m-c: I hate packaging things too, but the debian tools do make it reasonably straight forward	19:27
gimmal	ok, scratchbox isn't an emulator, got it hehe	19:27
gimmal	is there an n810 or OS2008 emulator in the maemo toolkit?	19:27
*** febb has joined #maemo		19:28
*** Mousey has quit IRC		19:29
*** lmoura has quit IRC		19:30
*** andre___ has quit IRC		19:31
AStorm	gimmal: yes, qemu-arm	19:32
*** jeff1f has joined #maemo		19:32
*** anidel has quit IRC		19:32
gimmal	AStorm: ahaha, thanks	19:32
*** booiiing__ has quit IRC		19:33
gimmal	maybe Xen might be able to make an Arm VM?	19:33
gimmal	as another option I mean	19:33
AStorm	no	19:33
gimmal	Sun Microsystems is all getting up on the Xen thing .. something they're releasing newly is based on Xen, fwiw	19:33
AStorm	Xen is paravirtualization, not emulation	19:33
gimmal	AStorm: ok, qemu - and thank you seriously for that distinction, it explains it in frank succintness heh	19:34
*** crashanddie has quit IRC		19:34
gimmal	ok, so xen running linux running qemu-arm muahahah >:^)	19:35
*** eocanha has quit IRC		19:35
gimmal	sounds kind of redundant, I guess, but it got xen worked in there somehow >;^)	19:36
*** alextreme has joined #maemo		19:36
*** hwilke has joined #maemo		19:37
\|\|cw	now try linux running xen running vmware workstation running esx running linux running qemu	19:38
* \|\|cw hides		19:38
*** acydlord has joined #maemo		19:39
lardman\|home	m-c: mumble looks like it needs Qt, have you used the new Qt libs to compile it?	19:40
gimmal	\|\|CW duuuuuude, that has so many levels <toke cough cough> hey, pass it around -- muahehehee	19:40
*** setanta has joined #maemo		19:40
*** zpol has quit IRC		19:41
m-c	hmmm - no Qt libraries ?	19:41
m-c	that's so bizarre	19:41
m-c	... being ... that ... nokia ... OWNS the Qt company	19:41
\|\|cw	as crazy as it sounds, esx does run under vmware workstation intentionally, as long as your cpu has vt or amdv support, so one can demo esx on a single laptop	19:41
* gimmal doesn't know esx. it sounds like esa, afaik. a european satellite company hehehehehe		19:42
*** starkmjolk has quit IRC		19:42
*** starkmjolk has joined #maemo		19:42
\|\|cw	esx is vmware's dedicated hypervisor product	19:43
Jaffa	m-c: a) Trolltech purchase is recent, b) there are Qt libraries, they're just not shipped by default (yet)	19:43
*** Mousey has joined #maemo		19:43
Jaffa	m-c: http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/	19:43
gimmal	\|\|cw: ahah, ok. rock on vmware	19:43
m-c	hope Maemo takes advantage of that Trolltech relationship within Nokia to the fullest.	19:44
simboss	wdf, why the heck chmod+x does not work on my n800 :-(	19:45
AStorm	yeah, by killing Qt and making C++ gtk wrappers much better	19:45
Jaffa	What? More fugly UIs, less space on the built-in flash due to all the extra libsm etc ?	19:45
AStorm	:P	19:45
Jaffa	There is so much more that maemo needs than being able to develop apps in Qt	19:45
AStorm	simboss: chmod +x	19:45
AStorm	but, it's busybox chmod	19:45
\|\|cw	simboss: on mmc the filesys is fat by default and thus doens't hold permissions	19:45
AStorm	try chmod 766 thatfile	19:45
AStorm	ah, that too	19:46
\|\|cw	just in case...	19:46
AStorm	you can allow exec there by modding /usr/sbin/mmc-mount	19:46
simboss	\|\|cw, you got me	19:46
simboss	I am an idiot not only a newbie :-)	19:46
simboss	si there any doc anywhere for this?	19:47
AStorm	hmm?	19:47
AStorm	why do you need them?	19:47
*** lardman\|home is now known as lardman\|away		19:47
AStorm	just remove noexec from options there	19:47
AStorm	idk why Nokia chose to make the partition noexec	19:48
gimmal	fwiw, somewhere out there in "whenever land", someone could make a plugin for Eclipse (IDE, yah) such that would allow the user to readily create and distribute an OS2008-ready debian package, with Maemo install file	19:48
AStorm	gimmal: someone could	19:48
*** \|\|cw has quit IRC		19:49
simboss	Astorm: how do I remove noexec options?	19:49
AStorm	but why?	19:49
gimmal	fwiw, I could start thinking on it myself, but I'm not sure all of what will be required for it -- like, how debian under os 2008 differs from debian etch, heh, and how the install stuff works, and the package system	19:49
AStorm	simboss: edit /usr/sbin/mmc-mount	19:49
AStorm	(there's vi on the tablet, you can install nano too)	19:49
Jaffa	AStorm: it's noexec cos VFAT can't distinguish the exec bit. So without noexec, everything becomes executable on the MMC	19:49
*** jpuderer has joined #maemo		19:49
AStorm	Jaffa: is that bad? I don't think so.	19:50
* gimmal would do it out of want to use Eclipse IDE for java programming projects. maybe it could be useful for C++ projects, too, given that there are already C++ plugins for eclipse		19:50
gimmal	afaik	19:50
gimmal	being able to manage the distribution as well as the programming and complation frome eclipse could be ideal, imo	19:50
simboss	Astorm: using vi	19:50
Jaffa	AStorm: you're not a typical user though - and this is a consumer device (or at least practice for one)	19:51
*** \|\|cw has joined #maemo		19:51
AStorm	heh, user will run stuff from the menu anyway	19:51
AStorm	so no point	19:51
* gimmal cringes at the thought of xemacs on a tablet. should be far worse than OOo hehe. no "meta" key on that keyboard...		19:52
* Jaffa shrugs - not my decision; just attempting to explain it. Personally, I can't understand why - as a user - I can't switch 12/24 hour clock, so noexec is the least of my concerns ;-)		19:52
AStorm	gimmal: wrong, there's escape	19:52
*** zap has joined #maemo		19:52
AStorm	Jaffa: you can :>	19:52
gimmal	AStorm: hm, would that be the arrow-pointing-up key?	19:53
AStorm	curled arrow, yes	19:53
Jaffa	AStorm: not in the built-in clock, I can't.	19:53
*** benh has joined #maemo		19:53
AStorm	Jaffa: yes, nokia can't use locales properly	19:53
Jaffa	AStorm: yeah, I know.	19:54
Jaffa	Fudging LC_TIME is sub-optimal in other ways (and not exactly user friendly either)	19:54
*** hfwilke has quit IRC		19:55
*** behdad has joined #maemo		19:55
*** gopi has joined #maemo		19:57
*** hugolp has joined #maemo		19:59
*** kcome has joined #maemo		19:59
simboss	AStorm: edited mmc-mount now what? :-)	20:00
*** ssvb has joined #maemo		20:01
m-c	Are there issues with connecting a VoIP call with Speex libraries??	20:01
AStorm	reboot or remount the given partition	20:01
simboss	do I have to remount manullay	20:01
AStorm	e.g. by removing and replugging mmc card	20:02
simboss	as is that done automatically	20:02
simboss	ah k	20:02
simboss	:-)	20:02
simboss	btw thx for the hekp!	20:02
*** florian has quit IRC		20:03
*** huats has quit IRC		20:04
*** jeff1f has quit IRC		20:05
*** EruditeHermit has joined #maemo		20:06
*** sven-tek has joined #maemo		20:06
*** jegp has left #maemo		20:06
*** jeff1f has joined #maemo		20:10
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC		20:12
*** armguy has quit IRC		20:16
*** tobmaster has quit IRC		20:18
*** ustunozgur_ has quit IRC		20:18
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		20:19
*** booiiing has joined #maemo		20:23
*** corq-FL has quit IRC		20:23
*** lopz has joined #maemo		20:25
lopz	hi	20:26
gimmal	hulloa	20:27
*** f_mohr has joined #maemo		20:28
*** f_mohr has left #maemo		20:29
*** Zic has quit IRC		20:31
*** benh has quit IRC		20:32
*** ceej has joined #maemo		20:35
ceej	hey all	20:35
gimmal	'evenin	20:36
* gimmal is away - burger king, mmm modern health food		20:36
ceej	I'm looking at the nokia N810 is maemo a good os, could i run python 2,5 ?	20:38
Stskeeps	ceej: yes	20:38
Stskeeps	pymaemo.garage.maemo.org	20:38
*** NullM0dem has joined #maemo		20:38
oilinki	one young girl is able to one young girl is able to hang several computers by asking one little question.	20:39
ceej	nice :)	20:39
ceej	Stskeeps: so can it run any app i could run on ubuntu ?	20:39
oilinki	the question is: how much is 1/2^2000 in numbers	20:40
Stskeeps	ceej: depends on the libraries the python app uses i guess :P	20:41
AStorm	oilinki: simple question :P	20:41
ceej	hmmm I'm looking at getting this over the oqo :)	20:41
AStorm	do the division in binary	20:41
oilinki	AStorm: yes :) I tried it out with bc..	20:42
ceej	anyone had experience with both ?	20:42
AStorm	then convert to decimal	20:42
oilinki	AStorm: try it out with your computer :)	20:42
*** EruditeHermit has quit IRC		20:45
*** murrayc_ has quit IRC		20:46
simboss	AStorm: still no joy; I edited mmc-mount, shut the thing down, removed the card, rebooted and then put the card back... :-(	20:50
AStorm	oilinki: it's very simple	20:51
AStorm	just don't use bc for it	20:51
AStorm	it's 0.0000000...00001 :P	20:52
AStorm	convert to decimal then	20:52
*** EruditeHermit has joined #maemo		20:53
*** konttori has quit IRC		20:55
*** jnl has joined #maemo		20:56
*** pancake has quit IRC		20:59
oilinki	in reality it's 0, but that can really hand the computer pretty well	21:02
AStorm	it's not 0	21:03
AStorm	it's a tiny frrrrrrrrrrraction	21:03
*** lovebug356 has quit IRC		21:04
gimmal	it's the percent of a chance i have for getting a date with carmen diaz, I think	21:05
*** _acyd_ has joined #maemo		21:05
gimmal	but you can always hope for that 0000000...00001	21:05
gimmal	er	21:05
gimmal	flipping erc	21:05
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo		21:05
gimmal	you can always hope for that 0.0000000...00001%	21:05
gimmal	::fiendish grin::	21:05
AStorm	it doesn't end with 1	21:07
AStorm	it does with 5	21:07
AStorm	let me abuse some CPU to get it :p	21:07
*** red-zack has quit IRC		21:07
*** ImMelody has left #maemo		21:09
*** L0cutus has quit IRC		21:10
*** krau has joined #maemo		21:11
*** pbryan has joined #maemo		21:11
gimmal	...so what you're saying is, I have a bigger chance of getting a date with carmen diaz than I thought? dude, awesome !!! heh	21:11
*** acydlord has quit IRC		21:11
*** lmoura has joined #maemo		21:12
*** svu has quit IRC		21:13
*** _acyd_ is now known as acydlord		21:13
*** foka has joined #maemo		21:13
*** MangoFusion has left #maemo		21:15
oilinki	to baldly go where Cameron Diaz has gone before	21:16
*** _berto_ has quit IRC		21:18
*** hap has quit IRC		21:18
RST38h	to boldly go where NO Cameron Diaz has gone before!	21:20
Knirch	to a LUG?	21:20
*** krau has quit IRC		21:21
oilinki	I mean this one. http://www.thedailygoss.com/_assets/images/cameron_diaz_1_wenn1879108-190-150-TemplateImage1.jpg	21:21
*** lopz has quit IRC		21:25
*** trbs has joined #maemo		21:25
*** Blastur has joined #maemo		21:26
*** behdad has quit IRC		21:28
*** smancke has quit IRC		21:29
*** jeddy3 has joined #maemo		21:29
*** l7 has joined #maemo		21:30
*** corq-FL has joined #maemo		21:30
*** shackan has joined #maemo		21:31
lcuk	gimmal, yes you have a great chance of getting a date with carmen diaz, cameron diaz however might be out of your league	21:31
*** etrunko has quit IRC		21:31
*** benh has joined #maemo		21:31
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		21:32
*** pbryan has quit IRC		21:33
Cptnodegard	anyone want to sum up 19 pages of yabbing and tell me why the itt article about software section swas deleted?	21:33
*** pbryan has joined #maemo		21:35
*** jeff1f has quit IRC		21:38
Blastur	wasn't Diablo suppose to release today?	21:38
RST38h	Cptn: Duplicating Maemo repositories with a second distribution method has been found unwise	21:39
*** Nermal has joined #maemo		21:39
Nermal	)	21:39
* Nermal plays with debian on his n800 :)		21:40
Cptnodegard	RST38h: lol i thought so	21:40
zap	Which CPU has N810 exactly? OMAP 2420, 2430 or 3430?	21:49
Mousey	arml6	21:49
* Mousey doesn't know wtf he's talking about		21:50
roope	2420.	21:50
Blastur	TI OMAP 2420	21:50
*** behdad has joined #maemo		21:51
* Nermal attempts to get a rotating cube on his n800 :)		21:52
* zap hopes the full specs on 2420 are freely available		21:53
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo		21:53
*** guardian has quit IRC		21:53
Blastur	i think not	21:54
Blastur	it also uses a closed wifi chipset	21:54
*** f_moh1 has joined #maemo		21:54
Blastur	conexant i think	21:54
zap	wifi has nothing to do with omap 2420	21:54
Blastur	nah, im just saying nokia seems to be using a lot of closed hw	21:55
*** gfcs has joined #maemo		21:55
Blastur	so my guess is you wont find any detailed datasheets for omap 2420	21:55
Blastur	but there are opensource drivers for most of omap 2420 already	21:55
*** kcome has quit IRC		21:56
zap	well, I just want to look what's inside it	21:57
*** mgedmin has quit IRC		21:57
*** gfcs has quit IRC		21:57
zap	it says it has some kind of 3D accelerator which does 2000000 polys/second	21:57
*** gfcs has joined #maemo		21:57
kulve	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerVR	21:59
*** kimitake0 has quit IRC		21:59
AStorm	zap: yep, powervr	21:59
AStorm	which is actually specialized arm, right?	22:00
zap	hmm, it's good it's a widespread arch	22:00
AStorm	and there's IVA too	22:00
zap	what is IVA?	22:00
AStorm	zap: bad it's closed	22:00
zap	that's sad indeed. No opensource anything for powerVR?	22:00
AStorm	zap: Integrated Video Accelerator	22:00
zap	mmm	22:00
AStorm	or was it Architecture	22:00
zap	both IVA & PowerVR inside?	22:01
AStorm	zap: it's the same chip I think	22:01
zap	so ITA is just another name for PowerVR?	22:01
*** lmoura has quit IRC		22:02
*** hfwilke has joined #maemo		22:02
kulve	http://focus.ti.com/graphics/wtbu/blockdiagrams/l4_omap2420.gif	22:02
zap	no PowerVR here	22:03
zap	so it seems ITA is it	22:03
*** hfwilke_ has joined #maemo		22:04
*** f_moh1 has left #maemo		22:06
*** hfwilke has quit IRC		22:06
*** hwilke has quit IRC		22:06
*** hfwilke_ is now known as hfwilke		22:06
AStorm	zap: it's IVA	22:06
RST38h	PowerVR is closed	22:06
zap	indeed	22:06
RST38h	Nobody knows what its instruction set is	22:06
zap	but there are closed-source OpenGL ES drivers for portable devices	22:07
RST38h	Apparently, it is very secret	22:07
RST38h	Not even NDA gives access to it	22:07
TimRiker	the right nda should. just getting that is the challenge.	22:07
AStorm	and it still doesn't give the community anything	22:08
*** l7_ has joined #maemo		22:08
AStorm	there should be nothing secret in it	22:08
AStorm	excepttttt the chip itself	22:08
zap	well if at least somebody could put a leg into the door and open the specs a little	22:08
TimRiker	the block diagram shows _both_ a 2d/3d accelerator and the ITA.	22:09
zap	and implement a perhaps bad driver, the things could go easier	22:09
zap	like it was with SD	22:09
* TimRiker nods. this is one of the open questions I have with TI at present.		22:09
*** benh has quit IRC		22:12
zap	hehe	22:13
zap	http://airlied.livejournal.com/39506.html	22:13
zap	the guys tagged their kernel module with GPL license just to use a couple SYMBOL_EXPORT_GPL's ...	22:13
*** felipec has joined #maemo		22:16
*** crashanddie has joined #maemo		22:16
*** sven-tek_ has joined #maemo		22:19
*** rm_you has joined #maemo		22:21
*** rm_you\| has joined #maemo		22:21
*** rm_you has quit IRC		22:21
*** Sakkath has left #maemo		22:24
lcuk	regarding the pvr hardware, quim gil said that the nokia direction is quite clear by looking at other things and later this year we could see something	22:25
lcuk	(at the meeting last week)	22:25
shapr	That sounds cool.	22:26
shapr	I still very much wish for a NIT that does WiMAX unlicensed frequencies. Then I can set up my own base station at home.	22:26
zap	this sounds intricate	22:26
lcuk	well its not cool, its almost required: other nokia n series devices using the same hardware have pvr drivers	22:26
lcuk	shapr, the n810 wimax edition has already been announced	22:26
AStorm	I wish N810 had a tv out	22:26
AStorm	there is hw support	22:26
zap	I wish N810 would do what my PC does	22:27
shapr	lcuk: Yeah, but the US version of it only uses the Sprint-licensed 2.5GHz band.	22:27
zap	but it's just not a PC :)	22:27
AStorm	zap: it doesn't? :P	22:27
lcuk	not quite, the 2420 has chips, there is no complete chipset on the mainboard to support it	22:27
shapr	lcuk: A WiMAX base station that uses the unlicensed US frequencies is about $1500, which I could afford.	22:27
lcuk	2420 has tv out onchip *	22:27
*** lmoura has joined #maemo		22:27
shapr	The FCC would throw me in jail if I tried to serve up WiMAX on the Sprint bands.	22:28
lcuk	simple solution, just buy sprint	22:28
shapr	lcuk: Do you know if there will be a European WiMAX N810?	22:28
AStorm	lcuk: well, there's enough place to add an encoder	22:28
AStorm	to,say, svideo	22:28
*** playya_ has joined #maemo		22:29
shapr	lcuk: I don't like to purchase service-provider-controlled devices :-/	22:31
ds3	serve it up on the 5.4GHz ISM band	22:31
lcuk	shapr, i dunno, but since it has info on the nokia european site i would go on a limb and say yer?	22:31
shapr	Ah	22:31
shapr	Good point!	22:31
ds3	or put on 2.4GHz and run 100W...just broadcast your call sign on every packet and you should be fine	22:31
shapr	ds3: afaik, the N810 wimax only handles the 2.5GHz band?	22:32
ds3	DOH	22:32
*** wms has quit IRC		22:32
lcuk	shapr, wimax is intended to be the data oriented version of a cell phone, i dont expect to own my own phone base station and i wouldnt expect to do same for wimax - afterall, you can still use wifi locally	22:33
shapr	lcuk: That may be the intentions of others, but I was originally interested in wimax because then I could be a data/cell service provider for myself, and probably for a several mile radius area.	22:34
*** sven-tek has quit IRC		22:34
shapr	It seems perfect for metro area networks.	22:34
shapr	And, since the unlicensed freq wimax base stations are already for sale in the USA for about $1500, why not?	22:35
lcuk	why not indeed, but i personally dont have a need for multi mile communication - 10ma wifi whispering is fine for me :)	22:35
* lcuk would use wired connection if it was piggybacked onto the charger		22:36
shapr	I live in an old house with thick walls, a recent and powerful wifi AP does not go more than two rooms over :-(	22:36
acydlord	some of the 802.11 rigs i've set up have multi-mile range anyway	22:36
acydlord	given its pretty much line of sight though	22:37
lcuk	pringles cans!	22:37
acydlord	more high tech than that	22:37
acydlord	directv dishes	22:37
lcuk	or chinese woks	22:37
ds3	the chinese strainers are probally better	22:38
shapr	I wonder if the WiMAX transceiver is a software defined radio? Maybe it really could handle unlicensed freqs?	22:38
acydlord	those arent always parobolic, the strainers work better	22:38
shapr	I had the great idea to build a cantenna for my N800 by just stuffing my N800 into the can!	22:38
gimmal	eyegh, .. mmmatrix bubble tank running drryyyyy... must sleep ....	22:39
*** gimmal has left #maemo		22:39
*** Sargun has quit IRC		22:39
*** dougt_ has joined #maemo		22:40
acydlord	lol	22:42
acydlord	i modded my 770 with pigtails to connect an external antenna, that was fun	22:42
*** rm_you\| has quit IRC		22:43
shapr	Where is the antenna on the N800?	22:45
Blastur	btw, do you know if its possible to connect gps external antenna to n810?	22:45
*** playya has quit IRC		22:45
acydlord	dont know, havent pulled mine apart yet	22:46
ds3	why.. just get a BT GPS :)	22:46
acydlord	yeah, holux makes some amazing BT GPS units	22:47
acydlord	and you can get them on the cheap	22:47
lcuk	there is also apparantly work ongoing regarding the gps problems as well - though i have to say once it gets a lock it seems stable enough, its just that it takes for-frikkin-ever to get one	22:48
Knirch	oh? neat, I just wrote it off as poor hw and use it as a gadget rather than something useful, neat	22:50
*** roue has joined #maemo		22:50
lcuk	one thing about the gps that riled me, has anyone tried to use gps outside their home country?	22:50
Knirch	depends on what you mean, my n810 was bought in the states and used in sweden	22:50
shapr	Fungerar bra?	22:51
lcuk	i went on holiday and after leaving it ALL afternoon sitting on the balcony to get a lock (which incidentally it didnt do until 5 minutes after i rebooted so there is some software problem...)	22:51
*** sven-tek__ has joined #maemo		22:51
Knirch	"<shapr> Works fine?"	22:51
Knirch	shapr: yeah, once it locks on	22:51
*** dougt has quit IRC		22:51
lcuk	well it got a lock and told me my location but the map was blank	22:51
lcuk	so i zoomed out, and england is all on its own!	22:51
shapr	Part of the problem is the GPS protocol itself, there is a minimum lock-on time.	22:51
Knirch	lcuk: ok, I've only used maemomapper	22:51
Knirch	shapr: well, 10 minutes is far beyond minimum :)	22:52
shapr	True that!	22:52
shapr	Knirch: Talar du svenska?	22:52
*** borism has quit IRC		22:52
Knirch	"< shapr> Knirch: Do you speak swedish?"	22:52
Knirch	yes	22:52
Knirch	shapr: please keep it english	22:52
*** qwerty12_N800 has joined #maemo		22:52
shapr	sorry	22:52
lcuk	there is an amount of information which must be downloaded from visible sats if the position data is out of date, but that infromation repeats ~20minutes, that should be the total maximum time for any gps with a clear view of the sky	22:52
Knirch	international channel :)	22:53
shapr	Yeah, I guess so.	22:53
Knirch	shapr: I'm swedish, yes	22:53
shapr	Ah, I'm from Alabama.	22:53
shapr	The Swedish speaking part, of course ;-)	22:53
* lcuk is used to swedish chans - direct connect was a blessing		22:53
* qwerty12_N800 doesn't have to use x-term to edit rc2 : http://i30.tinypic.com/iokqhj.jpg w00t :)		22:54
Knirch	there's a swedish speaking part in alabama? surreal	22:54
shapr	Knirch: It's a joke!	22:54
Knirch	hahahah, ok :)	22:54
*** bergie has joined #maemo		22:55
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, that looks decent :)	22:55
Knirch	I mean, why the hell not, enough swedes moved to amerika back in the day, some might have started a religious fanatic cult town which only allows swedish	22:55
lcuk	better than the jedis i suppose	22:56
Knirch	hahah	22:56
shapr	I live in Boston at the moment, as far as I can tell there aren't any Swedish speaking communities in the USA.	22:56
shapr	I did find a bunch of Scandinavian expats around here though, that was cool.	22:56
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, hope so :), haven't tried it yet. found it somehow in nokia repos...	22:56
lcuk	nahhh, you arent looking hard enough	22:56
Knirch	http://www.saccofnc.org/ close enough :)	22:57
Stskeeps	shapr: you used to date souwh, didn't you?	22:57
* Stskeeps remembers some nick		22:57
Stskeeps	:P	22:57
*** roue has quit IRC		22:57
pupnik	minnesota is very swede and norwegian, also lots of east europeans	22:58
shapr	Stskeeps: yes	22:58
lcuk	evening pupnik	22:58
lcuk	have you decided if you are taking your bike yet	22:58
shapr	Stskeeps: Surprising to meet you here.	22:58
Knirch	shapr: I bet there's atleast one swedish speaking community in minnesota	22:58
pupnik	no bike, berlin guy said it is not a bike friendly town	22:58
shapr	Knirch: Wow, I didn't know that.	22:59
Stskeeps	shapr: i'm a computer scientist with a fetish for tablets, ofcourse i'm here	22:59
Stskeeps	:P	22:59
shapr	Ok then!	22:59
Knirch	doh, pupnik mentioned minnesota	22:59
* Knirch slow		22:59
Veggen	shapr: of course there is: Minnesota is in the middle of where people from the nordic countries went.	22:59
lcuk	pupnik, shame	23:00
Knirch	9.9% of population in minnesota is swedish-american according to wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_American	23:00
* qwerty12_N800 would have prefered to have stayed in the nordic countries if i was from there		23:00
Knirch	meh	23:00
Veggen	qwerty: Wasn't as easy 150 years ago.	23:00
Veggen	Nordic countries was quite poor back then.	23:01
pupnik	150 years ago america was the light of liberty	23:01
lcuk	yer dialup is a bitch	23:01
pupnik	except for blacks	23:01
Knirch	wow, 30% of north dakotas white populous is of norwegian heritage	23:01
Knirch	someone distract me fast, got stuck on wikipedia :(	23:02
lcuk	or native indians or anyone who didnt agree	23:02
RST38h	150 years ago?	23:02
RST38h	Not if you are negro or chinaman or catholic	23:02
lcuk	no Knirch, you shall remain there for the next 3 days until your brain can no longer hold any more information	23:02
RST38h	Isn't North Dakota one of those states that have 3-digit license plates?	23:03
pupnik	i'm so offtopic hey lcuk, you're exposing some framebuffer stuff in your workshop right?	23:04
pupnik	so i can just say 'lcuk will talk about that'	23:04
eero	tsssssirrrp	23:04
Knirch	shapr: unless there was some truth to your joke, this could be interesting, first city to be mentioned concerning swedish characteristics is silverhill, Alabama..	23:04
Knirch	GAH	23:04
* Knirch closes browser		23:04
lcuk	i hope so yer, even if its just a passing "and the openness of the platform allows me to ..."	23:04
pupnik	well i'm going to complain about fps and vsync	23:05
qwerty12_N800	please add a2dp to that list although unrelated	23:05
pupnik	in the sense of 'here is an interesting opportunity for more research'	23:05
*** jegp has joined #maemo		23:06
pupnik	but i have a feeling the audience is going to be us, and a few random passerby	23:06
pupnik	though EVERYONE at linuxtag should be interested in the tablets :)	23:06
shapr	Knirch: That's bizarre!	23:07
Navi	:P	23:07
*** sven-tek_ has quit IRC		23:07
Navi	No one should be interested in the tabblets	23:07
qwerty12_N800	lol	23:07
Navi	everyone run!	23:07
pupnik	linux proponents should	23:07
Navi	Nu-uh	23:07
lcuk	i will have a better idea by the end of this weekend, its a long 3 days for me (bank holiday monday) before i have to nip into work on tuesday, but i should have my presentation sorted by then	23:07
*** rm_you\| has joined #maemo		23:07
lcuk	navi, you are right, no1 should be interested in a specific tablet device. touchscreens should be the norm	23:08
*** rm_you\| has joined #maemo		23:08
pupnik	i'm just looking forward to the dinner on thursday really	23:08
*** lopz has joined #maemo		23:08
*** mazzen has joined #maemo		23:09
lcuk	im looking forward to all of it, its going to be good - i have my note taking capabilities and compilation on device and i can run applications at arbitary resolutions and have super smooth scrolling and nice cpu mode switching and sketching and lego type building - ive got lots of things to put on a whizz bang show but would have prefered to have everything totally finished, but on a nighttime only schedule with family and life gett	23:10
lcuk	ing in the way its tough	23:10
* lcuk undoes the wall of text		23:10
Navi	:P	23:10
Navi	bleh, tintin won't compile	23:10
*** SDuensin has quit IRC		23:11
Navi	Oh, looks like it's just missing a semicolon >_>	23:11
qwerty12_N800	Weres my snowy!?!	23:11
lcuk	apt-get install herge	23:11
*** SDuensin has joined #Maemo		23:11
Navi	:P	23:12
blafasel	I'll join linuxtag thursday night or friday, not sure yet	23:12
*** blafasel is now known as Blafasel		23:12
Navi	I'll use my magical leenucks teleporter to get to linuxtag	23:12
Navi	but someone has to take me home	23:13
Blafasel	Ehh.. Ask a girl or something.	23:13
Blafasel	;)	23:13
*** lmoura has quit IRC		23:13
pupnik	how are you going to get an image onto a projector lcuk?	23:13
*** borism has joined #maemo		23:14
*** mike_11 has joined #maemo		23:15
mike_11	can any one reference abour a OS2008/maemo emulator for a PC?	23:17
mike_11	about*	23:18
pupnik	?	23:18
rm_you\|	we use xephyr?	23:18
rm_you\|	or	23:18
rm_you\|	i guess thats an xserver	23:18
qwerty12_N800	hrw can get you a half/full broken one :p	23:18
rm_you\|	look at the maemo development SDK wiki	23:18
rm_you\|	it has some stuff about running maemo on PC	23:18
mike_11	i want to run a virtual N810 device	23:18
rm_you\|	yeah	23:18
pupnik	look at the topic of channel mike_11	23:18
rm_you\|	look at the wiki	23:19
pupnik	heh	23:19
mike_11	k	23:19
qwerty12_N800	What I did was to install the diablo debs into chinook armel target, EXACTLY like my n800 with diablo	23:19
*** megabyte405 has quit IRC		23:20
mike_11	well, im gonna look it up now, thanks	23:20
*** megabyte405 has joined #maemo		23:20
*** bergie has quit IRC		23:20
*** red-zack has joined #maemo		23:20
*** MangoFusion has joined #maemo		23:21
qwerty12_N800	getting the diablo debs, is,let's just say, a little on the hard as it's leaked beta with a password on the repo :/	23:21
mike_11	mm	23:22
Blastur	is diablo out yet?	23:22
MangoFusion	is diablo any good then? will it make world peace?	23:22
mike_11	wait,	23:22
mike_11	i need to clear out what that is,	23:23
*** sven-tek__ has quit IRC		23:23
RST38h	Mango: it will make flaming frogs fly out of your ears	23:23
mike_11	looing at maemo.org	23:23
RST38h	[in other words, don't]	23:23
mike_11	oh	23:23
qwerty12_N800	is there fixed localepurge package for os2008? (stupid busybox)	23:24
mike_11	where is diablo written about?	23:25
lcuk	pupnik, not sure how im gonna project it..	23:25
Navi	lcuk, vnc?	23:26
lcuk	ill try taking a couple of movies later this weekend and see how they turn out	23:26
*** fab has quit IRC		23:26
lcuk	am just installing x11vnc now (if i can find the repo)	23:26
pupnik	lcuk: i'll bring a hd cam i bought for it, with a cardboard box	23:26
Navi	I think it was in extras	23:26
lcuk	and if it will transmit the xv overlay im rocking	23:26
pupnik	do you have usb networking going?	23:26
lcuk	no	23:27
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, google msaunby	23:27
lcuk	isnt wifi good enough	23:27
pupnik	ok	23:27
pupnik	you have ad-hoc working?	23:27
lcuk	yes	23:27
pupnik	so you could run synergy from laptop for demo, with a fixed camera on the tablet?	23:28
lcuk	i could, but since i havent ever run synergy before and would have to learn a new package to just find out if it works	23:29
pupnik	ok	23:29
RST38h	Weird. I was getting audio overruns just this morning, but it is working fine now	23:29
pupnik	i'll bring camera but no idea if it'll work with the projector	23:29
RST38h	CPU frequency got upped?	23:29
pupnik	hey RST38h do you wanna go instead of me? :/	23:30
*** Gnuton has joined #maemo		23:30
lcuk	rst, possibly, test using different settings by writing as root to: /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor	23:30
* qwerty12_N800 would go for Berlin, not for ltag :p		23:31
lcuk	use either "powersave" or "ondemand" or "performance"	23:31
lcuk	pwoersave = always slow	23:31
lcuk	ondemand = sometimes fast	23:31
lcuk	performance = always fast	23:31
*** gopi has quit IRC		23:31
lcuk	powersave	23:31
GAN800	ooh . . there goes the update applet.	23:31
Blafasel	For certain values of fast.	23:31
GAN800	Navi, want some bug karma?	23:32
lcuk	very big values actually	23:32
*** svu has joined #maemo		23:33
lardman\|away	lcuk: /s/20min/12.5min	23:34
*** lardman\|away is now known as lardman\|home		23:34
*** l7__ has joined #maemo		23:34
lcuk	20min?	23:34
lcuk	or is that really bad lag from something i said this afternoon :P	23:35
lardman\|home	Almanac repeat rate	23:35
lardman\|home	sorry, bit behind the times here :)	23:35
GAN800	Navi!	23:35
pupnik	btw lcuk i found a bunch of mp3s of presentations from various conferences, and generally the people are really bad speakers	23:35
lardman\|home	lcuk: yeah :)	23:35
mike_11	the development SDK talks about testing applications, running them emulated.	23:35
Navi	GAN800, WHAT?	23:36
pupnik	in the linux world	23:36
Navi	WHAT?	23:36
lcuk	well im hoping to do my best, ive seen enough TED presentations to know how its done, if i can even get 0.00001% of the information across then ive done well :)	23:36
lcuk	lardman i still know nothing about the almanac	23:37
lardman\|home	lcuk: specifics about the format of our one, or in general?	23:37
*** jeddy3 has quit IRC		23:37
mike_11	can any one reference about Diablo and Chinook?	23:38
*** rm_you\| has quit IRC		23:38
lardman\|home	and talking of presentations, what's the general form for the talks going to be?	23:38
lcuk	right, i now have context, about our schedule and tickets and stuff	23:38
lardman\|home	lcuk: you ok for the ticket?	23:38
lcuk	well i was thinking 5 minutes of chat followed by a 7 minute rant against microsoft and pvr whilst slowly unveiling a naked picture of RMS, but others might have different ideas	23:39
lcuk	no lardman, i havent heard back from them- could you resend please and i will do whats needed to print it out	23:39
lardman\|home	:) with driftnet running as the background wallpaper :)	23:39
lardman\|home	lcuk: ok, will do that now	23:39
Blafasel	luck^: Are you giving a session/talk/bof or whatever you prefer calling it on the linuxtag meeting?	23:40
Blafasel	Argh	23:40
lcuk	yes blah	23:40
lcuk	f	23:40
Blafasel	np, missed your nick so it's fair that you did the same ;)	23:40
lcuk	lol	23:41
Blafasel	On which day? Time?	23:41
lardman\|home	lcuk: can you send me your email again?	23:41
lcuk	thursday first session, im in the community update since i chat in here a lot	23:41
Blafasel	Damn. =(	23:41
lardman\|home	ah, got it, don't worry	23:41
lcuk	and talking about my choice of device and reasons for getting it and hopefully run through some of the things ive been working towards	23:41
*** Pio has quit IRC		23:42
lardman\|home	lcuk: should be on it's way	23:42
Blafasel	Sad.. Have to work on thursday and won't make it until late evening or next morning. Are you creating a video/live stream? ;-p	23:42
*** lardman\|home is now known as lardman\|away		23:42
lcuk	lardman\|away, don't run yet, i dont speak german	23:43
lcuk	how did you decipher it	23:43
*** l7 has left #maemo		23:43
Blafasel	Hm? I can translate german stuff if you need something.	23:44
lcuk	well google is doing a fine job right now	23:44
Blafasel	Good	23:44
lcuk	do i choose versenden or drucken, google cant pick up buttontext	23:47
*** gopi has joined #maemo		23:47
*** sm00th_trac3r has quit IRC		23:48
lcuk	well that was difficult, good job i dont need to present in german	23:49
Blafasel	Versenden = send	23:49
Blafasel	Drucken = print	23:49
*** SDuensin has quit IRC		23:50
lcuk	thanks blaf, the red wire blue wire trick worked and i have a pdf now ;)	23:50
*** qwerty12_N800 has quit IRC		23:50
Blafasel	What are you doing anyway?	23:51
*** p\| has joined #maemo		23:51
thopiekar	hi @ all	23:51
*** Pio has joined #maemo		23:52
thopiekar	who of you knows how to fix the problem with eclipse...	23:52
*** matt_c has quit IRC		23:52
thopiekar	the message ".... "feature.xml". [Not a valid zip file]"	23:53
thopiekar	appears when i choose Help>Updates	23:53
Blafasel	thopiekar: Are you sure that you are in the right channel? ;-)	23:54
thopiekar	* I'm using the DeveloptingVmApplicance	23:54
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC		23:54
*** yerga has quit IRC		23:54
thopiekar	yeah etrunko from #canola said that i have to ask you...	23:55
thopiekar	^^	23:55
*** andrunko has quit IRC		23:55
zap	Anybody knows why sending a file through ssh to N810 (WiFi) is so damn slow? Top shows me that tee and wc eats about 100% of the CPU, and the speed is, say, 1-2k/s	23:55
Knirch	that confused the heck out of me, why would tee and wc be involved?	23:56
zap	mmm, perhaps that's the way Midnight Commander sends files through ssh?	23:57
Knirch	oh, that might be, try just using scp and see if that also suffers	23:57
zap	must try some sftp client, maybe it works in a different way	23:57
thopiekar	ok i'm going to replace the .eclipse folder to .eclipse-backup	23:58
Blastur	lemme try scp some stuff on my n810	23:58
thopiekar	maybe it will disappear...	23:58
zap	indeed, sending through lftp works at 500k/s	23:59
zap	so it's mc actually... sad	23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!