IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-05-20

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hrwhalley: and as freetype is part of system image you cannot update it ;(00:02
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halleyhrw, ick, okay... thanks for letting me know why it's so old.00:29
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halleyhrw, have to code an inner loop that lets me render u'text with spaces' then.  :P00:29
halleyApparently r'text with spaces' works fine.  Just u'text with spaces' hits it.00:30
hrw - experienced Maemo people needed for review00:32
hrwI will later add other systems so it will be split a bit00:32
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halleyWas going to say, OSX and Win are a bit different.00:33
hrwbut some parts are same - first ones00:34
GeneralAntilleshrw, might be useful for OS X.00:34
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RST38hDoes anyone know if setitimer(ITIMER_REAL,..) works on OS2008?00:35
hrwGeneralAntilles: feel free to add00:35
GeneralAntillesSetting up the HAVA right now. :P00:35
acydlordugh, so my roomates didnt pay their portion of the cable/internet bill and it got shut off00:35
acydlordnow i'm using my cell as a modem and wow it is slow00:35
hrwcan someone with garage account try to login into wiki?00:37
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acydlordmy garage login works fine00:46
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|penguinbait|anyone in here running a 800 or 810 with 51-3 firmware, using USB host support??01:18
practisevoodooany got claws mail working with gmail?01:19
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* johnx hasn't01:19
|penguinbait|I have a 800 and 810 neither will go into host mode01:19
johnxbut then again, I've never tried claws01:19
|penguinbait|I have a 810 at 42-19 and it works fine01:19
johnx|penguinbait|, interesting. I know a lot of other people are using usb host on 51-301:20
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GeneralAntillesIt's not the firmware01:20
GeneralAntillesMine goes into host just fine on 51-3 (or 50-2)01:20
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|penguinbait|maybe boot from SD issue, I should try from flash01:21
|penguinbait|GA are you runing from flash?01:21
GeneralAntillesAt the moment, no, but I WAS01:21
balrog-kunhow do you stop maemo from filling the card with core dumps again?01:22
|penguinbait|800 or 810 GA01:22
GeneralAntillesbalrog-kun, delete the directory.01:22
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balrog-kunGeneralAntilles: oh. thanks01:23
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|penguinbait|It works if I am booting from flash on my 810, WTF?01:26
johnx|penguinbait|, that's even weirder01:27
|penguinbait|testing 800 now01:28
johnxwell, it works for me in debian just fine01:28
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johnxall the usb stuff is compiled into the kernel, so it shouldn't matter where you boot from01:28
practisevoodoocome on ppl, claws mail with gmail? anyone?01:28
johnxanyways, does dmesg say anything interesting right after you do echo host > /sys/..../mode01:28
GeneralAntillespractisevoodoo, just use Modest?01:29
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practisevoodoonot heard of that one01:30
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|penguinbait|whynot use the webmail, it seems like the easiest solution?01:30
johnxmodest rocks :)01:30
practisevoodoo'cause i would like to have the messages download automatically while i have internet for easy reading when i dont01:31
|penguinbait|and the n800 works from flash too???01:31
johnx|penguinbait|, yes. it has. both keyboard and usb-stick01:31
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johnxI'm on the diablo kernel right now though01:32
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GeneralAntillesanybody thought about an enhancement request for SSU and custom kernel/initfs yet?01:33
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johnxGeneralAntilles, I'm not sure if it's worth it01:33
|penguinbait|yes john01:34
johnxjust replace flash-and-reboot with a a script that does "exec true"01:34
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GeneralAntillesThat's no fun. :P01:34
GeneralAntillesI wonder how much of the ssu stuff will be open.01:35
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|penguinbait|can anyone confirm, (besides debian) that usb host mode is working on 51-3 firmware, when booting from SD?01:48
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|penguinbait|WTF, now they are both working01:54
GeneralAntillesPEBKAC :P01:56
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jsidhu2im not good with c/or gtk, and would like to develop a appliaction that i can run via a browser.. but I wont have network or internet connectivity, so it needs to run localy. Maybe with apache + php.. so before i go and buy this tablet, can you guys tell me if I can run apache + php on these tablets? will the 770 do this? or do i need the newer 810? what alternatives should i look at? I dont want to develop in c/gtk, dev time is too long for me to01:59
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KotCzarnymaybe pygtk then?01:59
jsidhu2KotCzarny: ive never done anything with python either..02:00
KotCzarnyi think there is apache and php for maemo, though i don't know anything about 77002:00
jsidhu2do you have a link to the apache/php project for maemo?02:01
KotCzarnynope, but i believe google will return a link :)02:01
GeneralAntillesjsidhu2, there's a magic bullet for everything maemo related. Google: "<thing you're looking for> maemo"02:01
jsidhu2yes, been looking, havnt found it with that magic bullet yet02:01
jsidhu2but my maghic bullet was n77002:02
jsidhu2let me try maemo02:02
GeneralAntillesThat's not a magic bullet.02:02
GeneralAntillesThere's no such thing as an "n770". ;)02:02
KotCzarnywell, you would be better of using os200[678]02:02
KotCzarnyinstead of n77002:02
KotCzarnyalso, 770 has no n before number02:02
KotCzarnyon a 770 memory can be a problem a little02:03
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jsidhu2im not commited to a tablet yet.. but it would be nice to use the 770.. i already own one but havnt used in a few months02:04
KotCzarnyso you can test it yourself, good02:04
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jsidhu2yeah but i havnt found anything that indicates that apache/php runs well on these tablets, so i decided to ask the users of #maemo02:05
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jsidhu2..maybe ive been looking for the wrong keyword02:05
KotCzarnyyou would be running browser + php, that could be a little heavy memory wise for 77002:06
GeneralAntillesFirst result for 'apache maemo' . . .02:06
jsidhu2KotCzarny: how about the newer tablets? 800 or 810?02:06
jsidhu2GeneralAntilles: needs php02:06
KotCzarnya little better i think02:06
NaviApache is too heavy to use well on the NITs :|02:06
KotCzarnybecause it has 128mb of mem02:06
KotCzarnynavi: not true02:06
KotCzarnyapache itself isn't heavy02:06
AStormI wonder if maemo-generated public keys are vulnerable to that Debian OpenSSL bug02:07
jsidhu2so what do you guys think... should i rethink my route?02:07
GeneralAntillesI would.02:07
GeneralAntillesIt's not a very good route02:07
KotCzarnyjsidhu2: just try it02:07
jsidhu2GeneralAntilles: what would you recommend?02:07
KotCzarnyall you have to do is to install 2 packages02:07
GeneralAntillessacrificing a lot to maybe save a little time programming side02:07
jsidhu2KotCzarny: yeah, i'll look02:07
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jsidhu2GeneralAntilles: pyGTK?02:07
KotCzarnythen you will see if it's fast enough for you02:07
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GeneralAntillesKhertan has a nice little on-device programming suite for Python, even.
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jsidhu2yeah but if i have to spend the time to learn py, might as well get started with gtk02:09
jsidhu2i thought i might be able to get away with php and a local server02:09
KotCzarnyjsidhu2: just try it then02:09
jsidhu2so anyways, i still dont see any php packages02:10
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KotCzarnyjsidhu2: google for: php <your os version>02:10
jsidhu2ok, will do02:10
jsidhu2thanks fellas02:10
GeneralAntillesMaybe try Vala, jsidhu2.02:10
KotCzarnyjsidhu2: for a lighter browser try links202:11
AStormKotCzarny: is maemo vulnerable to Debian OpenSSL debackle?02:11
KotCzarnyastorm: i don't know02:11
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KotCzarnyastorm: any test script?02:11
AStormgenerate a key and check if it's on the blacklist02:12
jsidhu2GeneralAntilles: looks good, thanks man02:12
jsidhu2"turns out distro is actually just windows vista with a few custom themes"02:13
AStormNah, just some stupid developers who shouldn't *ever* touch any security-related code.02:14
AStormthey can't read it02:14
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AStormFortunately, all my keys were generated on Gentoo and none on any Debian derivative.02:16
KotCzarnyi think slackware isn't a debian derivative too02:16
AStormyes, it isn't02:16
AStormand it doesn't have the bug02:16
jsidhu2hey, nginx/php might work02:17
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KotCzarnyit says pass, but i need some debian host to test if the script works02:21
AStormfirst, check the version of OpenSSL02:22
AStormif it's <0.9.8, you're 99,9% safe02:22
KotCzarnyon n80002:23
KotCzarnyscipt works02:23
KotCzarnyi have tested on my unis server02:23
KotCzarnyTEST_RESULT_RSA: fail02:23
KotCzarnyTEST_RESULT_DSA: fail02:23
AStormwhich has broken OpenSSL? :P02:24
KotCzarnyand pass for n800/slackware02:24
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AStorma pity the bug isn't in FreeBSD02:24
KotCzarnyNokia-N800-51-3:/usr/lib# ssh -v02:24
KotCzarnyOpenSSH_4.7p1  Debian-2.maemo2, OpenSSL 0.9.7e 25 Oct 200402:24
AStormwould love a root on our main boxes02:24
KotCzarny[root@x32 19:23:22 /tmp/debian_ssh_scan_v4]# ssh -v02:24
KotCzarnyOpenSSH_4.7p1, OpenSSL 0.9.8g 19 Oct 200702:24
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KotCzarnyand: OpenSSH_4.3p2 Debian-9 on that debian box02:25
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KotCzarnydo you want me to test some ip?02:27
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rm_youtime to set up scratchbox2. everything is basically switched over to that now, right?03:19
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KotCzarnynot me03:19
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rm_youif I follow the guides on
rm_youis that going to get me Scratchbox 1 or 2?03:25
KotCzarnyprobably 103:25
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KotCzarnyunless it was updated since i used it03:26
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NullM0demAnyone know of a tutorial to install the mameo-SDK on centOS or RHEL? i tried manual install and its giving me pains03:29
KotCzarnynm: i used the intructions rm pasted03:29
KotCzarnyand it worked on slackware03:29
KotCzarnyi used automatic script to install it though03:29
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NullM0demIm on Centos 5 at work, i tried the manual install but cannot run the install script03:30
KotCzarnywhat's the error?03:31
NullM0demunable to open /dev/null03:32
KotCzarnybug the admin03:32
NullM0demlame as in im a noob or...03:32
KotCzarnydo you have root on that machine?03:32
NullM0demyeah but the admin has sudo not sure of the changes he made03:33
KotCzarnyyou need to chmod +rw /dev/{null,zero}03:33
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rm_youlol thats ridiculous03:34
rm_youyou could just edit the script to not redirect to /dev/null03:34
KotCzarnyi have spotted that braindamageness on freebsd too03:34
rm_youyou'd get a lot of extra crap on the screen, but it would work fine03:34
KotCzarnyrm, proper fix is to fix the evice node03:34
NullM0demI re ran the script and the actual error is: Scratchbox user's /dev is not properly set up. Couldn't read /dev/null03:34
rm_youyeah, but he only needs to run it once and probably just wants it to work :P03:34
NullM0demwould that fix work as well for that03:34
KotCzarnyrm, but it will break other things too03:35
KotCzarnynm: probably03:35
rm_youdoes anything else in there RELY on /dev/null that much?03:35
KotCzarnyassuming there is no other b0rkenness03:35
rm_youi agree, it's important to get that fixed03:35
rm_youbah, that still makes no sense03:35
KotCzarnyrm: fix is a one liner03:35
KotCzarnyso no buts03:35
rm_youdoes RHEL use a different /dev structure?!03:35
rm_youyeah, a oneliner that requires root access >_>03:35
KotCzarnyno, probably some braindamaged app removed /dev/null and created it with wrong permissions03:36
rm_youthough a large portion of the setup requires root already, i guess03:36
NullM0dempossibly vmware03:36
KotCzarnyrm: disabling vdso needs root too :)03:36
rm_youi hate redhat and centos >_>03:37
rm_youtried to use centOS a few times and it always just aggrivated me03:37
rm_youi'll stick with gentoo or debian based systems I think03:37
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rm_youor arch... arch seemed nice03:37
KotCzarnyslackware :)03:37
rm_younever tried it :P03:37
rm_youmaybe i will03:37
rm_youfedora pissed me off too03:38
NullM0demI love slack03:38
rm_youmost RPM distros just piss me off03:38
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KotCzarnyit's fun if you like it to be simple03:38
rm_youdoes it have any kind of package management?03:38
rm_youeverything i saw is always like... "for slackware, just use this tar.gz"03:38
NullM0demmy main os is slack, i use cent at work to be a sheepie03:38
rm_youso i always kind of stayed away from me03:38
rm_you*from it03:38
KotCzarnyrm: .tgz != .tar.gz03:38
rm_youisn't it?03:39
rm_youi use the same commands to open em03:39
KotCzarnyit's like saying that .deb is ar x03:39
rm_youthought it was just an abbreviation03:39
KotCzarnyit uses tar and gzip for packages, but also adds meta files to them03:39
rm_youso... i should probably stop calling my random tar.gz files .tgz :P03:39
KotCzarnyif you want to build packages for it i can share my scripts03:40
rm_youi learned it as just an abbreviation about 7 years ago03:40
rm_youand just kept using it that way03:40
KotCzarnyi usually use mconf, mmake and mpkg03:40
rm_youi'll try it out in a bit03:40
rm_youdoes it have a liveCD?03:40
rm_youis there a slackware based Live distro?03:40
KotCzarnythere was thing called zipslack that was ~100mb03:41
KotCzarnythough i don't know if they do it anymore03:41
rm_youwhat's the slackware mascot? :P03:42
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rm_youwhich one used to have the guy with a pipe?03:42
rm_youwasn't that slackware?03:42
KotCzarnywell, i think mascott would be tux with a pipe03:42
KotCzarnyi don't care about it though :)03:43
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KotCzarnyi don't like penguins too :)03:43
NullM0demrm_you: there are alot of slackware based distros03:44
NullM0demermm... slackware based live cd's03:44
|penguinbait|penguins rule!!!!!!!!!03:44
KotCzarnypenguinbait: i'm a cat03:44
KotCzarnywell, i'm me03:44
NullM0dempenguins pwn catz03:44
|penguinbait|do cats eat penguins?03:44
KotCzarnydon't know03:45
KotCzarnyi like pancakes03:45
KotCzarnydarn. i lost my op_H patch03:45
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NullM0demrm_you: the guy with the pipe is bob dobbs from the church of  the subgenius03:46
|penguinbait|I got a pipe, but I prefer my volcano03:46
NullM0demslax is a slackbased live cd, as well as backtrack03:47
KotCzarnymaemo logs should be split by hour03:47
KotCzarnyotherwise google isn't helpful03:47
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NullM0dem|penguinbait|: volcano??03:47
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rm_youi wonder why i associate subgenius with slackware >_<03:48
NullM0demummm....    slack03:48
NullM0demheh, it's all based aorund slacking03:48
NullM0demhaha: should know not too click random links at work....03:49
KotCzarnyhah, found it. for future reference: op_0 op_1 patch
KotCzarnymaybe this way i won't lose it again03:50
NullM0dem|penguinbait|:In vermont on the farm we used the milking system and piled into the milk tank03:50
|penguinbait|that seems really large?03:51
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|penguinbait|there is a good link to have some fun with03:53
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|penguinbait|no takers? the bounty is up to 35$ :)04:02
|penguinbait|BOUNTY for running Microb in KDE04:03
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|penguinbait|I got a n800 with ssh and vnc waiting for you to play :)04:04
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KotCzarnyi have my own n80004:04
|penguinbait|people asked, so I figured why not04:04
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|penguinbait|hack away :)04:05
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KotCzarnyfor future reference: fbconsole
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|penguinbait|oooooh Console :)  thats sweet05:00
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* KotCzarny hacked fanoush initfs to be white-on-black05:20
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rm_youi'm failing at downloading slackware05:28
rm_youi can't find the ISO05:28
KotCzarnyuse bittorent05:28
rm_youin this maze of directories on their mirrors05:28
KotCzarnyor use google05:28
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rm_youah got it05:32
NullM0demslack 12.1?05:32
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rm_youit's weird tho...05:44
rm_youcause I just did my Hardy Heron launch party last month <_<05:44
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rm_youis that .tgz actually a slackware package?!05:47
rm_youor did they mislabel too05:47
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KotCzarnymany people misuse .tgz05:47
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NullM0demrm_you: hardy heron launch?06:09
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befordhey, I'm trying to install a package manually from terminal on n81006:11
befordits asking me for a password, what should I use?06:11
befordi'm actually running 'sudo dpkg --install xx.deb'06:12
Naviinstall easyroot/becomeroot06:12
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KotCzarnyahm, sorry, wrong link06:32
timelyAStorm / KotCzarny: fwiw, diablo 4.1 pre is vulnerable to the openssl thing :)06:36
* KotCzarny is still on 4.006:36
timelyjust in case people ask06:40
KotCzarnytimely: btw. have you tested it?06:40
timelyalthough from what i understand that's just openssl06:40
timelyKotCzarny: no, i filed a blocker bug against the system06:41
timelyi had the sources06:41
timelyi'm not actually sure what it means for maemo though06:41
* KotCzarny is hacking linuxrc06:41
timelyafaict the openssh package links against 09706:41
timelywhich means it shouldn't be any more vulnerable than any other normal ssh package06:41
timelyand gecko uses nss for crypto06:42
timelyit probably means that anyone stupid enough to install a debian openssh package onto the maemo 4.1 leaked system would be in trouble06:42
KotCzarnyi think main impact is on keys generated with broken openssl06:42
timelydon't think that :)06:42
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timelyor don't think it the way you think you should think it06:43
timelywhat is a key?06:43
timelya certificate used for web servers is a key06:43
timelya one time key for a crypto channel is still a key06:43
KotCzarnyfrom what i have read keys generated on broken debian and used somewhere else are vulnearable06:43
Navijohnx, I hate you06:43
timelybasically there are 3 or 4 major things that are vulnerable06:44
KotCzarnysame goes with keys generated and used after upgrading openssl06:44
timelyweb server certificates are among them06:44
timelyso are session keys, which probably includes someone logging session traffic06:44
timelyhowever, in maemo 4.1 pre, i don't know of anything specifically vulnerable that would actually matter06:44
KotCzarnyi wonder if it was a sabotage06:45
timelybecause the https session keys are managed by nss not openssl06:45
timelyand the ssh session keys would be managed by openssl09706:45
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timely(supposedly, i never actually checked that detail, but someone made that claim)06:46
timelyi only know of two components that actually used 09806:46
timelyone is for parsing afaiu, so it shouldn't matter06:46
timelyand the other is for a wire protocol which you can't use w/o new hardware06:46
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benuskidoes anyone know how to reinstall the navicore software on the n810? i've messed it up something awful06:49
GeneralAntillesPurge the settings from mmc206:50
GeneralAntilles /media/mmc2/map/06:50
GeneralAntillesor /media/mmc2/maps/06:50
GeneralAntillesOr something similar06:51
benuskithat worked great06:59
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lsobral_hi guys, the new release of canola, beta9, is available!07:43
lsobral_check it out:
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GeneralAntillesApplication manager really needs to use something other than the error-sound for a successful install.07:50
KotCzarnypost a bug07:50
* KotCzarny is having fun with n800+fbconsole+btkb07:51
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KotCzarnyqwerty, have you seen my new bootmenu?08:50
qwerty12KotCzarny, no, just came down :)08:50
qwerty12Ooh, very nice :)08:51
KotCzarnyindeed :)08:51
qwerty12I did a black one once, looked odd :D08:51
KotCzarnywanna know what to change?08:51
qwerty12Alright then please, I need to make another diablo initfs anyway :)08:52
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KotCzarny.conf and .sh files are in the same dir :)08:53
qwerty12Ok, thanks :)08:53
KotCzarnythough you are interested in .sh one08:53
KotCzarnyi have made some other changes too08:53
qwerty12Yep, I see it, thanks :)08:54
qwerty12Have you done the FB mod?08:54
KotCzarnynot finished yet08:54
qwerty12I need to reapply that one.08:54
KotCzarnythough most pieces are there08:54
KotCzarnyie. i need to make /etc/rc2.d detect that we need fbconsole and not x08:54
qwerty12You can also change the colour of the "press menu button" and "boot from mmc failed, using flash" etc by changing linux rc08:55
qwerty12Ah cool :)08:55
KotCzarnyyes, i did that08:55
KotCzarnyfiles in fs/* are replacing the original ones08:55
qwerty12Cool :). I wish Nokia used Black instead of white. Hurts my eyes in the night heh.08:56
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KotCzarnyi made it grey08:56
KotCzarnyto differentiate from fanoush initfs08:56
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* qwerty12 wants someone to make tool to extract NOLO's pictures and repack with new ones :p08:57
KotCzarnynolo is a little fragile without serial cable08:57
qwerty12I've got a usb to serial converter from my sony ericsson days, I could try and make a plug for that :)08:58
KotCzarnyi don't know if usb is available that early08:58
qwerty12I mean for my computer :)08:58
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KotCzarnyFor the moment, rotation isn't possible in the UI (lots of hardcoded09:12
KotCzarny800x480s abound), so it's not been a high priority on my list, but it is09:12
KotCzarnycertainly on it, and I'll hopefully be adding the support at some stage.09:12
KotCzarnythat's from:  Jan 16, 2007, 10:57 AM09:12
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AStormtimely: well, given weak OpenSSL on both sides, the system is vulnerable to online attack09:15
AStormgiven weak OpenSSL on one side, to a MITM attack09:16
AStorm(of course, only if keys are weak)09:16
KotCzarnyastorm: have you seen my bootmenu?09:16
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AStormno, I haven't09:16
KotCzarnyno more black-on-white09:17
AStormblah blah09:17
KotCzarnymaybe blah for you09:17
AStormhow did you disable that horrible Nokia screen?09:17
KotCzarnybut it hort my eyes09:17
KotCzarnyjust edited linuxrc09:17
AStormand set diff colors? heheh09:17
KotCzarnybut working09:17
AStormtell me when you replace Nokia logo09:18
KotCzarnyand the effect is what counts09:18
KotCzarnyastorm, which one?09:18
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KotCzarnybecause it's set few times during boot09:18
AStormno, twice09:18
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KotCzarnyand only the one from nolo isn't replaceable atm09:18
* qwerty12 wants to get rid of the nolo one09:18
AStormis, if you get a replacement nolo09:18
KotCzarnythe rest you can simply comment out09:18
qwerty12logo-nokia don't mean shit. I've already deleted it.09:18
AStorm~lart Nokia and its closed stuff09:18
* infobot cats /dev/urandom into Nokia and its closed stuff's ear09:18
KotCzarnyi wonder how much nolo does09:19
AStormit is a Fiasco kernel image09:19
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AStormyes, you heard right09:19
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, you tried mounting NOLO on your computer yet?09:20
AStormNokia is hiding here a RTOS09:20
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, NOLO isn't jffs209:20
AStormyes, it isn't09:20
GeneralAntillesAh, nevermind.09:20
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KotCzarnyyeah, it's like trying to mount command.com09:20
qwerty12Best I ever saw was the probably incorrect info on the 0xFFFF site.09:20
KotCzarnymore like mbr09:20
AStormKotCzarny: yes, but it's a proggie for Fiasco09:21
KotCzarnyi know09:21
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AStorm~lart Nokia for not using Fiasco to full extent09:21
* infobot strangles Nokia with a 9-pole serial cable for not using Fiasco to full extent09:21
AStormthat would be great, really09:22
AStormfirst real consumer use of RTOS09:22
AStormand there's L4Linux already09:22
AStorminfobot: have a cookie09:23
infobotTa.  *Munch*09:23
KotCzarnythen all we need is someone with jtag cable who tries few loaders09:24
AStormjtag? I couldn't see any port...09:25
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AStormwhy do you need a jtag cable, when there's a cold flasher in rom?09:25
qwerty12The port's above the battery.09:25
AStormqwerty12: really? I only saw serial there...09:26
qwerty12That is the jtag09:26
AStormno, sorry09:26
AStormthat's the serial port09:26
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qwerty12You can plug jtag into there iirc09:26
AStormmhm, serial-based, plausible09:27
AStormbut I also couldn't see any chip governing it09:27
AStorm(unless it's built into one of the TI chips)09:27
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qwerty12It's meant for cold flashing so I guess it would be somewhere low level.09:27
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AStormmaybe you can just send the flasher over it09:28
KotCzarnyi wonder if anyone did a nolo reflash09:29
GeneralAntillesJTAG is how the factory recovers from NOLO brickings.09:29
AStormq: where is it?09:29
AStormit probably won't be the serial port09:29
* qwerty12 wonders if nokia also use phoenix for other things.09:29
AStormalthough it is possible09:29
AStormqwerty12: like, unit testing? definitely09:29
GeneralAntillesIt's next to the battery in the N800.09:29
KotCzarnyhere it is09:30
AStormGeneralAntilles: where in N810 then?09:30
GeneralAntillesSomewhere else.09:30
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AStormif it is also the serial port... it means the controller is in TI chip09:30
GeneralAntillesIt is.09:30
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* qwerty12 wants someone to crack latest phoenix so I can connect my N800 up. I've already downloaded the files that correspond to the N800.09:31
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AStormqwerty12: what is that phoenix?09:31
KotCzarnyphone flasher09:31
qwerty12N800 is based off BB5 so Phoenix supports it.09:32
AStormok, if they got Fiasco to run, they must've built it for ARM... expected that to work, yes09:32
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KotCzarnyqwerty: look at the pics i have pasted, maybe you can create your own dongle :>09:33
qwerty12Hehe, my hardware skills are **** :p09:33
KotCzarnyi mean, cable09:33
AStormas I said, they should've written the drivers for Fiasco09:33
AStormand used slightly patched L4Linux09:34
AStormwould actually be more stable :>09:34
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AStorm(e.g. broken camera driver wouldn't hang the device)09:34
qwerty12 may ask my friend, who's dad works in a phone shop to steal me a dongle :p. It would be useful anyway for the09:34
qwerty12next bb5 phone I plan on getting.09:34
qwerty12Sorry, enter button slipped.09:34
GeneralAntillesWTF are you on about, AStorm?09:35
GeneralAntillesFIASCO is just the firmware image09:35
AStormGeneralAntilles: no, it's a full scale RTOS kernel09:35
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AStorm - this one, I suspect09:35
AStorm(site is old, devel is alive)09:36
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AStormblah format is quick and easy it seems09:37
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AStormwe need to look what's in omap-nand09:37
AStormbecause that is the true kernel09:38
AStorm(which then passes control to Linux)09:38
qwerty12All qwerty wants to know is that which one of these contain the images: 2nd.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602, xloader.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602, secondary.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,160209:42
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KotCzarnyprobably all of them09:42
* qwerty12 is also glad I can delete the stupid hands pictures. me laughs at my friend with N95...09:42
KotCzarnyqwerty, hands are replaceable on rootfs09:43
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KotCzarnyyou don't even have to reflash anything09:43
qwerty12KotCzarny, I don't think so. different sizes. for the images.09:43
qwerty12KotCzarny, I know :). I'm glad that you can delete them.09:43
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KotCzarnyi replaced them09:43
KotCzarnywith my own pic09:43
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qwerty12My guess is that secondary.bin-RX-34:1301,1302,1501,1502,1503,1504,1601,1602 holds the images. I wouldn't consider images to be a massivly important/required part and its got the biggest size.09:44
GeneralAntillesYou should change some random bits, flash it and find out. :P09:45
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Maybe another day when I feel in a killing mood ;P09:46
KotCzarnyyeah, flash your n95 with n800 image09:47
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KotCzarnyqwerty: anything interesting diablo wise?09:48
qwerty12rd flags make me laugh. Quite a bit of the stuff enabled with them are done by the initfs and init scripts. They run cal-tool to see if a flag has been enabled.09:48
qwerty12KotCzarny, I've only got diablo initfs.09:48
qwerty12NOLO wasn't touched.09:48
* qwerty12 thinks linux hex editors suck. I'm probably gonna run winhex from wine.09:51
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qwerty12Also any arm asm experts here? Try running the bootloaders through IDA or summat like that.09:51
KotCzarnyqwerty: use mc, it has hex editor09:52
qwerty12Ok, thanks. But now, the homework that is expected to take 1hr to complete must be done in 20 mins >.< and be given in today.09:52
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KotCzarnytrickie_: indeed, interesting10:00
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KotCzarnysomeone should try: apt-get remove gcc-3.4-base10:17
KotCzarnyit cries so hard :>10:17
KotCzarnyTo continue type in the phrase 'Yes, do as I say!'10:18
summatusmentisfor real?10:18
KotCzarnyok, stupid question, how to install gcc?10:18
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KotCzarnyhint: apt-get install gcc doesn't work10:19
summatusmentisyou may need to specify the correct name10:20
summatusmentisapt-get install gcc-3.4-base10:20
summatusmentisetc. etc.10:20
KotCzarnyi have it installed10:20
KotCzarnybut i don't see gcc10:20
summatusmentislike... you can't run it?10:21
KotCzarny-sh: gcc: not found10:21
KotCzarnyapt-get install gcc-3.4-base10:21
KotCzarnygcc-3.4-base is already the newest version.10:21
kulvedpkg -L gcc-3.4-base10:22
KotCzarnyonly docs10:22
summatusmentisKotCzarny: maybe a symlink?10:22
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KotCzarnyls: /usr/bin/gcc*: No such file or directory10:22
summatusmentisuh oh10:22
summatusmentisI don't remember... is there a force option?10:23
KotCzarnyprobably gcc lives in another package10:23
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summatusmentisor apt-get install --reinstall gcc-3.4-base10:23
lcddhow about gcc-3.410:23
KotCzarnyPackage gcc-3.4 is not available10:23
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summatusmentistry install --reinstall10:24
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summatusmentisdebian has it, I'm not sure about maemo10:24
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trickie_KotCzarny: is there a build-essential package?10:25
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kulvemaemo probably doesn't have gcc as there's little use for it10:25
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KotCzarnyi remember i have installed it one day10:27
KotCzarnyjust don't remember which repo had it10:27
KotCzarnyand yes, gronmayer is down still10:27
KotCzarnyReinstallation of gcc-3.4-base is not possible, it cannot be downloaded.10:30
KotCzarnyit looks like it's living in
KotCzarnyFailed to fetch  401 Unauthorized [IP: 80]10:35
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KotCzarnyit's not mine ip10:35
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KotCzarnybut wait10:36
kulveKotCzarny: 401 here too..10:37
jdiazI modified sudoers file, I put there something wrong... and now I can't sudo10:37
KotCzarnykulve, wtf10:37
jdiazso i can't gain root access10:37
KotCzarnythey went crazy10:37
jdiazand cannot undo the sudoers changes10:37
kulvejdiaz: login as root through ssh and fix it10:37
jdiazyep, that is the first I tought10:37
KotCzarnykulve, good thing i have mirrored whole repository.maemo.org10:37
jdiazhowever, I can't either, I do not why...10:37
jdiazperhaps I forgot the root password10:38
jdiazperhaps I disabled the root pasword and forgot about it10:38
jdiazI used "easyroot" for so long, that I forgot the ssh way10:38
KotCzarnykulve, i see, akamai sees me as unauthorized ip10:38
KotCzarnyi can get the package from repostory.maemo.org10:39
kulvejdiaz: then you need to install the initfs and use the "emergency ssh access" to login to initfs and mount the rootfs by hand and fix things10:39
jdiazkulve, thanks... there is a hope then10:39
kulvejdiaz: there could be easier way too, but can't think of any right now10:39
trickie_jdiaz: or maybe reinstalling openssh lets reset the password?10:39
trickie_i think i have done that before10:39
trickie_maybe have to remove it first10:40
kulvethat would be easier, if it works :)10:40
trickie_when i installed openssh the package configuration let me set the root pass10:40
jdiaztrickie_, I don't think so, /etc/passwd is not related to ssh, but you gave me an idea10:40
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kulveyeah, install a package that sets the root passwd10:40
trickie_but the installer has a prompt to set the password10:40
KotCzarnyi'm getting 401 on too10:40
KotCzarnyakamai is b0rken.10:40
KotCzarny(or my dns)10:41
kulveand mine?10:41
KotCzarnycan you check what ip gets you ?10:41
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KotCzarny69.22.179.90, for me10:41
kulvetkulve@sd056:~$ host repository.maemo.org10:42 is an alias for is an alias for has address has address
jdiazuh oh...10:42
jdiazI can't install anything!10:42
jdiazapparently the application manager also uses sudo, which is broken10:42
KotCzarnywtf.. now repostory is 401 for me too10:42
kulvejdiaz: yeah, it seems to use sudo too10:43
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kulve wc -l /etc/sudoers10:44
kulve       52 /etc/sudoers10:44
* jdiaz is getting nervous10:44
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trickie_jdiaz: it seems the only way to fix it without flashing rootfs again is to install the intifs from
jdiazbut how can I install it when broken sudoers?10:45
KotCzarnyfrom windows10:45
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kulveyou need to flash it10:45
trickie_you can flash it10:45
KotCzarnyor another linux box10:45
kulveit flasher tool10:45
KotCzarnydarn. i can't install anything on my n80010:45
kulvetrickie_: you can also boot from mmc and fix the rootfs from there10:45
KotCzarnyeverything goes 40110:46
trickie_kulve: yes assuming he has set up a mmc to boot to10:46
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jdiazI didn't10:47
jjoI got 401 also using the link to the repository but when I went to the parent directory and clicked the file again I was able to download it10:47
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kulveI would guess that you could just download one from the net? And the boot system to mmc with flasher without the need to flash the new initfs10:47
trickie_sounds like a plan :)10:47
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KotCzarnyjjo, so it's one of akamai server freaking out or someone at nokia working on repositories10:47
GeneralAntillesjdiaz, or talk somebody into giving you the jffs2 image that initfs flasher spits out.10:47
Cptnodegardweee, my BT gps is here10:47
kulvealthough I recommend using the fanoush's initfs. It's just convenient :)10:48
GeneralAntillesand flash that with the flasher10:48
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jjonobody at nokia should be working on the repsitories atm10:48
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KotCzarnyjjo, why? it's morning there10:48
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jdiazI never reflashed my n810 yet, so I'm a bit lost now...10:48
jdiazI'm reading about initfs10:48
hugolpjdiaz:  its easy10:48
GeneralAntillesYou never flashed your N810?10:48
GeneralAntillesSo you're running on the factory firmware?10:49
jjoKotCzarny: I hope I would know if someone was10:49
GeneralAntillesold. . .10:49
jdiazGA, correct10:49
GeneralAntillesold and very buggy. :\10:49
jdiazno.. i checked the version10:49
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kulvecat /etc/osso_software_version10:49
KotCzarnyjjo, any idea why 401?10:49
jdiazi have the penultimate version10:49
KotCzarnyand how to fix it?10:49
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jjoKotCzarny: no idea yet10:51
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summatusmentisdang it! I did not realize it was this late10:51
summatusmentisI need to stop researching/obsessing over the N810, and sleep10:51
KotCzarnyjjo, the worst thing is that catalogueer repo also went 40110:52
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GeneralAntillesJust buy it so you can do that.10:52
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: buying it later this week, if I do. I get a $100 discount on it because of a conference I'm flying to tomorrow10:52
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KotCzarnymajor repository breakage10:58
KotCzarnyrst, can you try refreshing repo list?10:59
KotCzarnyif you get 401 too?10:59
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RST38hLeft N810 at home10:59
RST38hToo warm outside, could not take a jacket with me =)10:59
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KotCzarnyi hate akamai.11:01
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KotCzarnygood thing i have a mirror.11:03
kulveI guess akamai usually works quite well even under very heavy load?11:03
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KotCzarnykulve, it's not the problem with load but config11:04
KotCzarnyor maybe with repos themselves11:04
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KotCzarnyok, how to reinstall a package with dpkg?11:04
KotCzarnyor with apt using local file11:04
RST38hdpkg -i11:04
kulveI guess yes11:04
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legindim trying to use insmod to insert modules with specific module options.. why wouldn't this work: insmod usbserial.ko vendor=0x1410 product=0x410011:05
kulveiirc, dpkg doesn't mind if the package is installed already11:05
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KotCzarnyblack indian?11:06
RST38hbelieve it or not11:06
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RST38hI guess McCain will be known as "White Eagle"...11:07
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KotCzarnygcc version 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2)11:09
KotCzarnyby it didn't created a symlink11:09
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legindanyone have experience with os2008 kernel modules11:10
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jdiazargh! this is frustrating... I remembered the root password, and I can check it remembered it correctly, because I did crypt() on my guess and compared the output with the one stored in /etc/passwd, and they match11:18
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jdiazbut I can't still login via ssh, because the password is disabled (it has a ! in fromt)11:18
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jdiazif I only could delete that "!"... but of course this needs root privileges11:19
jdiazI guess I have to reflash...11:19
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GeneralAntillesjdiaz, get a copy of fanoush's initfs11:19
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jdiazGA, but I can't install it without root privileges, can I?11:19
GeneralAntillesYou can get the jffs2 it outputs from somebody and flash that with flasher.11:20
jdiazExcuse my ignorance... what would do that flash?11:20
jdiazWould it replace only the boot sector?11:20
GeneralAntillesYou can just flash the initfs11:20
GeneralAntillesThen that gives you initfs with usb net and ssh/telnet11:20
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jdiazbut I can't login via ssh...11:21
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GeneralAntillesThe initfs dropbear server is separate from the rootfs openssh server.11:21
jdiazah, ok11:21
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jdiazand it has a default well-known root password, I assume11:22
GeneralAntillesIt's purpose is for recovering after situations like this. :P11:22
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jdiazempty root passwd, then?11:22
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GeneralAntillesDownload the flasher and read the readme for now.11:23
jdiazI'll come back soon, I'm afraid :)11:23
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Italodancenice source11:27
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GeneralAntillesI'm still waiting for the command-line method for changing the desktop. . . .11:28
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GeneralAntillesI'd like to cycle it every night.11:28
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Italodanceummm good idea11:29
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JaffaMorning, all11:31
GeneralAntillesHowdy, Jaffa.11:31
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GeneralAntillesjdiaz, I've got the initfs image for you.11:33
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KotCzarnyok, is there a cvs .deb of application manager somewhere?11:37
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jdiazGA, really?11:44
jdiazoh! Thank you! Thank you!11:44
jdiazI was writing right now to a colleague asking him help11:44
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jdiazcould you please send it to my mail box?11:45
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GeneralAntillesYou able to flash now, jdiaz?11:47
hrwmorning etc11:47
GeneralAntillesHowdy, hrw.11:47
jdiazI don't know... I never did it before11:47
GeneralAntillesWell, you have stuff? :P11:47
jdiazIf I understood correctly, the initfs package contains a flasher11:47
hrwdid someone tried to flash tablet with rootfs taken from device?11:47
GeneralAntillesLinux computer, USB cable and N810.11:47
jdiazit is preferable to flash from the PC than from the tablet?11:48
GeneralAntillesYou'll have to in this case.11:48
jdiazI have all the hardware, yes11:48
hrwI would like to test some things on n810 but do not want to reinstall everything on maemo11:48
GeneralAntillesOK, then you're good to go.11:48
jdiazoh, of course, flashing from the tablet would require root privileges...11:48
KotCzarnyhrw, mmc boot?11:48
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's your problem. ;)11:48
GeneralAntillesjdiaz, download the flasher-3.0 from here:
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jdiazok. I've read in the docs of initfs about some problems on OS200811:49
GeneralAntillesThat's prior to 51-311:49
trickie_jdiaz: i have never had trouble with it on OS200811:50
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trickie_and i have even modified it a bit11:50
GeneralAntillesYou'll know if you have problems.11:50
GeneralAntillesIt's an OMAP timing issue that'll prevent the device from starting up.11:50
jdiazif that happens, the solution would be to reflash the OS?11:52
GeneralAntillesIt's actually not an initfs thing, anyway11:52
GeneralAntillesIt's NOLO11:52
GeneralAntillesGet the flasher-3.0, jdiaz?11:53
jdiazWell, I've downloaded your initfs, the flahser, and I'll try the whole thing11:54
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GeneralAntillesOK, step one is to get the flasher ready11:54
GeneralAntilleschmod +x etc11:54
jdiazIt will take me a while, because I want to read the docs and understand what I'm doing11:55
GeneralAntillesIt's very straightforward11:55
GeneralAntillesI can explain as I go if you want.11:55
hrwKotCzarny: prefer to jffs2 boot due to lack of minisd card11:55
jdiazthank you, your are very kind11:55
hrwKotCzarny: internal n810 card filling would take too much time ;)11:55
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GeneralAntillesJust let me know when you're ready.11:55
KotCzarnyhrw: but it's simpler to do a backup/restore11:55
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trickie_hrw: i use flasher to boot a kernel with out actually flashing it11:56
jdiazok, I downloaded the program flasher-3.0-static11:56
trickie_hrw: im not sure if you could do the same for a rootfs11:56
jdiazand chmod +x it11:56
hrwtrickie_: you cannot11:56
jdiaznow, I plug my n810 to the PC via usb11:56
KotCzarnyhrw, you would have to boot to usb11:57
GeneralAntillesMake sure everything you need on the N810 is backed up first.11:57
KotCzarnyor some rsync magic11:57
jdiazyou mean what is in the internal 256Mb flash, don't you?11:57
jdiazand what is accesible as user...11:58
GeneralAntillesIt wont do anything to the cards11:58
jdiazbecause I can't access as root...11:58
GeneralAntillesand, actually, it wont be doing anything to the 256MB flash, either.11:58
GeneralAntillesBut just in case. ;)11:58
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jdiazwell, I'll backup all under /home/user11:58
GeneralAntillesGood plan.11:58
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jdiazI mounted /home/user to my PC via sshfs11:59
jdiazand I'll copy it11:59
jdiaz(no, better I'm tar-ing it)12:01
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kpanichi, I'm in the process to port an application to n800, specifically I have to recompile obex-data-server on maemo, I don't know pretty nothing of cross-compiling, is there an howto for maemo? thanks12:16
KotCzarnykpanic: 3 words: vmware sdk image12:18
RST38hWhy does he need vmware?12:18
KotCzarnybecause it doesn't require setting up anything?12:18
KotCzarnydownload and run kind of solution12:19
RST38hbut don't you have to set up vmware?12:20
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KotCzarnyi believe it's click and install too12:20
RST38hsounds compliczted12:21
RST38hwhy not install it on an existing system?12:21
KotCzarnybecause he is a little lost already?12:22
RST38hhe will just get lost further...12:22
* RST38h usually suggests installing sb2 in such cases12:23
kpanicok, I'll go the vmware route :)12:23
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GeneralAntillesjdiaz, backed up?12:28
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baaany consensus on maemo's future, given nokia's acquisition of trolltech?12:29
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GeneralAntillesThere's plenty of very official feedback about that.12:29
GeneralAntillesThere's a lot of good references here, baa:
MikhoI'm trying to install Maemo 4 in scratchbox using the installation script, but after downloading a ton of packages the script spawns a number of package-not-configured-yet-errors. What gives?12:30
GeneralAntillesIn summary, Qt libraries likely to ship with maemo in the winter/spring 200912:31
GeneralAntillesNothing else so far12:31
GeneralAntillesmaybe same application-code sharing between S60 and maemo.12:31
jdiazI've just finished the backup12:31
GeneralAntillesOK, next step12:31
jdiazI had problems with the wifi connection during the backup12:31
GeneralAntillesTurn the N810 off and plug it into USB on the PC.12:31
jdiazturn it off?12:31
GeneralAntillesYeah, NOLO handles the flashing so we gotta catch it during boot.12:32
GeneralAntillesIt's fairly well-charged, right?12:32
jdiazI didn't understand a word, but it's done12:32
jdiazcan I connect the charger?12:32
jdiazjust in case...12:32
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's one way we can do it.12:32
GeneralAntillesBut for now, start the flasher with this command: ./flasher-3.0-static -n <myinitfsimage> -f -R12:33
GeneralAntilles-n points it to the initfs image (in this case, the .jffs2 image I generated from fanoush's flasher)12:33
GeneralAntilles-f tells it to flash that image12:33
GeneralAntillesand -R tells it to reboot when it's done.12:33
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jdiazinitfs.bootmenu.jffs2 ?12:34
GeneralAntillesYou may or may not need to do it as root.12:34
GeneralAntillesDepends on how your machine is set up.12:34
GeneralAntillesHi, andre___. :)12:34
jdiazSuitable USB device not found, waiting12:35
GeneralAntillesOK, good.12:35
GeneralAntillesNow go back to the N81012:35
GeneralAntillesFirst, find your charger cable.12:35
Italodanceguys i found it the volume of n800 is louder12:35
jdiazAt hand12:35
GeneralAntillesThen hold down the Swap key on the front of the N81012:35
GeneralAntillesLooks like two overlapping squares12:35
ItalodanceN810: 4.13-inch (800 x 480) screen, two hardware buttons, 128cc volume12:35
GeneralAntillesShould be the topmost button on the front of the device.12:35
ItalodanceN800: 4.13-inch (800 x 480) screen, three hardware buttons and D-pad, 137cc volume.12:35
jdiazswap? Is it what the manual call it "Home" key?12:35
jdiazbelow the camera, ok12:36
GeneralAntillesNow, while holding down the Home key, plug in the charger.12:36
onion_yay, nokia linux *phones* someday12:36
jdiaznokia screen with small usb icon12:36
jdiazUSB device found found at bus 006, device address 01212:36
GeneralAntillesflasher should be doing its thing now12:36
jdiazError claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted12:36
GeneralAntillesSet the N810 down12:37
jdiazoops... then sudo12:37
jdiazI have to switch off the n810 again?12:37
GeneralAntillesIt's ready and waiting12:37
GeneralAntillesJust rerun the flasher with sudo and it'll do its thing.12:37
jdiazFlashing initfs... done.12:37
GeneralAntillesNow it should restart12:37
jdiazbooting menu in n81012:37
GeneralAntillesYou can go ahead and pull the USB cable.12:38
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jdiazset date and time12:38
GeneralAntillesThe wizard is showing up?12:39
jdiazbooting finished, all looks normal12:39
GeneralAntillesNow, go ahead and power it back off.12:39
GeneralAntillesDid you grab the initfs_flasher and readme?12:39
GeneralAntillesPC setup for USBnet?12:40
jdiazWhen switching off, the system sound was choppy...12:40
jdiazno, I do not have USBnet12:40
jdiazI'm using ubuntu in the pc12:40
GeneralAntillesOK, you'll have to do that first.12:40
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure how to set it up for Linux12:40
GeneralAntillesLooks like fanoush has links to a couple of guides in the readme file12:41
GeneralAntillesgoogle will probably turn up something useful, too.12:41
jdiazyes I'll do that12:41
GeneralAntillesOnce that's done, you just need to follow the directions in the readme12:41
GeneralAntillesThen you can get in with ssh/telnet and fix the sudoers file.12:41
GeneralAntillesYou'll have to mount the rootfs (256MB flash) before you can work on it12:42
GeneralAntillesHe's got that covered in the readme, too.12:42
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jdiazhum... I've configured an usb0 interface in the PC12:46
jdiazwhen I try ifup usb0, i get errors12:46
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jdiazI assume these are due to the usb cable unplugged?12:46
GeneralAntillesDon't have a clue. ;)12:46
jdiazok, then I'll try to continue12:46
GeneralAntillesMaybe google the errors12:47
jdiazI have to switch-on the tablet now, with the usb cable plugged to the PC, right?12:47
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GeneralAntillesYeah, plug in the USB cable12:47
GeneralAntillesTurn it on12:47
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GeneralAntillesThen at the bootmenu press the Home key.12:47
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GeneralAntillesThen you can plug it in and leave it while you get the computer ready.12:47
jdiazoh, there was no bootmenu this time12:48
jdiazonly the nokia logo12:48
jdiazand the wizard again...12:48
GeneralAntillesNo bootmenu at all?12:49
jdiazI think I understand...12:49
jdiazthe real booting occurs when I plug the charger12:49
jdiazthe charger was still plugged12:49
GeneralAntillesOh, right12:49
GeneralAntillesThat'd be the issue.12:49
GeneralAntillesGotta power it down completely12:50
jdiazI unplugged it12:50
jdiazthe plugged again12:50
jdiazbootmenu appeared12:50
jdiazi hold Home key12:50
GeneralAntillesIt's actually booted most of the way for charging.12:50
jdiaznothing occured apparently12:50
jdiazthe icon "Charging" is displayed12:50
GeneralAntillesNeed to start it up normally.12:50
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jdiazShould be able to ssh now?12:50
GeneralAntillesUnplug the charger, wait for it to turn off.12:50
GeneralAntillesThen just start it up with the power key.12:50
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GeneralAntillesPress the Home key when the bootmenu appears.12:51
GeneralAntillesFun times with runlevels. :P12:51
jdiazhow much time need I to hold the home key?12:52
GeneralAntillesShould just need to press it, actually.12:52
jdiazI released when the nokia hands screen appeared12:52
GeneralAntillesIt'll say stuff about usb networking12:52
jdiazno mention to usb12:52
GeneralAntillesYeah, it didn't catch it then.12:52
jdiazthe only message was something like "booting from /...."12:53
GeneralAntillesPress it once when the bootmenu actually appears.12:53
jdiazthe wizard asking the time appears all the times12:53
jdiazshould the usb cable be plugged during booting?12:53
jdiaza message "Press and hold home key while menu,,," appears for an instant (I have no time to read it completely)12:54
GeneralAntillesThough it probably doesn't depend on it.12:54
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GeneralAntillesThe timeout on the initfs is set to zero on something. :\12:55
jdiazCan I have the home key pressed in advance?12:55
GeneralAntillesActually, yes.12:55
GeneralAntilles(I just tried it)12:55
GeneralAntillesJust release it as soon as you see the bootmenu come up.12:55
jdiazthis is tricky :-)12:56
jdiazno luck12:56
jdiazthe message is "Booting from flash.."12:56
jdiaz(mtdblock4 jffs2)12:56
GeneralAntillesOK, let me put together another initfs image with a real timeout. :\12:56
jdiazbtw... there is no a real bootmenu12:56
jdiazonly a message line at the top12:57
GeneralAntillesYeah, I screwed it up.12:57
GeneralAntilles2 minutes12:57
jdiazno problem12:57
blahdeblah-lapCan anyone tell me what are the big features/fixes in RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.51-3_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin?12:57
jdiazyou are being very helpful12:57
GeneralAntillesCompared to, blahdeblah-lap?12:57
hrwblahdeblah-lap: compared to 50.x? only bootloader12:57
GeneralAntilles50-2, just the updated NOLO (which  you'd know if you needed)12:57
blahdeblah-lapThe tableteer web site told me i needed it, so i updated.12:58
hrwblahdeblah-lap: if your n800/n810 has problems to start after power off you want nolo from 51.312:58
jdiazwhat kind of problems?12:58
blahdeblah-lapI don't suppose it fixes that stupid metalayer-crawler issue where it chews all the CPU and runs down your battery in no time at all?12:58
hrwjdiaz: if you did not noticed then do not worry12:59
jdiazSometimes, I have to press several times the power button12:59
jdiazor hold it12:59
jdiazrelease it12:59
jdiazhold it again...12:59
hrwjdiaz: in short - poweroff, 1h on charger to poweron12:59
jdiazuntil the led becomes blue12:59
jdiazaha, no my problem them :-)12:59
hrwjdiaz: I cursed nokia a lot after bought n81012:59
hrwjdiaz: especially when got informations about time which it took to nokia to test that fix13:00
GeneralAntillesblahdeblah-lap, metalayer-crawler shouldn't give you any trouble. Either you've got a recursive symlink or a corrupted card.13:00
GeneralAntillesjdiaz, I'm testing this one on mine first to be sure. ;)13:01
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blahdeblah-lapGeneralAntilles: Regardless, it shouldn't do that!13:01
jdiazcan I modify from the PC the initfs image you provided me before?13:01
GeneralAntillesIf you can figure out how to mount a jffs2 loopback device. ;)13:02
GeneralAntillesIt's just a matter of changing a line or two if you can.13:02
* GeneralAntilles shrugs.13:03
jdiaz:) I better wait13:03
GeneralAntillesJust make sure neither of your cards are corrupted and that you don't have any recursive symlinks.13:03
GeneralAntillesOr disable it if you don't need Media player13:03
jdiazI tried to mount the image from nokia, but I hadn't enough ram13:03
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GeneralAntillesOK, this one's good, jdiaz.13:05
jdiazsame url?13:06
GeneralAntillesLet me grab it off the device and upload it.13:06
GeneralAntillesWhen it gets uploaded, yes.13:06
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GeneralAntillesUploading. . . .13:09
GeneralAntillesSame steps as before, just use this one instead.13:09
jdiazI think this time can do it on my own :-)13:11
GeneralAntillesHey, the good part of this is that you get to remember it even better 'cause you got to do it right! :D13:12
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Hey, the good part of this is that you get to remember it even better 'cause you got to do it twice! :D13:12
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hendrydo people here use maemo-sdk or ?13:14
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jdiazi reflashed this one, but apparently it is the same than before (at least, the same behaviour)13:18
jdiazperhaps the proxy cache...13:18
GeneralAntillesWeirdness. :\13:18
jdiazhow can I tell if it is a new one?13:18
GeneralAntillesWell, the menu layout should be different.13:18
jdiazthere is no menu layout13:18
GeneralAntillesYeah. . . .13:19
jdiazI mean.. how can I tell if the zip file is different?13:19
jdiazor my proxy is giving me the same file13:19
GeneralAntillesI'll change the name.13:19
jdiazok, thanks13:19
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jdiazthat url gives me an html instead of a zip13:21
jdiaza mostly empty html file13:21
GeneralAntillesOK, round 313:21
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jdiazthis one is good13:23
jdiazi mean, the zip file13:23
jdiazhowever, once flashed, there is no menu :-(13:23
GeneralAntillesHonestly, I don't have a clue. . . .13:23
GeneralAntillesYou might try holding down the menu key on the slider when it's starting up13:24
GeneralAntillesthat might force it to bring up the bootmenu13:24
jdiazmenu key on the slider?13:25
GeneralAntillesBelow the dpad13:25
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jdiazI have a menu now13:26
GeneralAntillesNow press home to start USB net13:26
KotCzarnyby the time he would have clean reflsh already..13:26
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jdiazusb networking mode running13:26
jdiazand usb0 was automagically bring up in the PC13:27
GeneralAntillesOK, ssh in from the PC13:27
sergiothere were some people the other day talking about a problem in Modest13:27
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GeneralAntillesThe mark-as-read issue, sergio?13:27
sergioregarding read/unread status of emails13:27
sergioI found the problem :-)13:27
jdiazI get no connection13:27
jdiazah, sorry13:28
jdiazthat was not the correct IP13:28
sergioso it'll be fixed in one of the next releases13:28
GeneralAntillesAwesome, sergio. It'll make a lot of people happy. ;)13:28
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sergioI'll post about it when that bugfix is included in a public release13:29
GeneralAntillesMight if I make mention of the fact that a fix is coming on itT, or should I wait?13:29
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Mind if I make mention of the fact that a fix is coming on itT, or should I wait?13:30
sergiowhat's itT?13:31
sergioah ok :-)13:31
sergioyeah of course13:32
sergioit's open source13:32
GeneralAntillesExcellent, thanks!13:32
jdiazgrr... i have to leave13:32
jdiazand still was unable to connect...13:32
jdiazifconfig problems, tough, not tablet related13:33
GeneralAntillesYeah, it's PC issues now13:33
GeneralAntillesTablet is ready for you whenever.13:33
GeneralAntillesYeah, well, Nokia's involved. ;) There's always been a little touchiness with pre-release stuff.13:33
jdiazthank you very much13:33
GeneralAntillesSure, let me know how it works out13:33
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Cptnodegardgps is phun ^_^13:37
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b0unc3good morning13:45
b0unc3is there any way to see .ppt files on tablet ?13:46
X-Fade_Openoffice? :)13:47
X-Fade_There was this post about it being available, but I think it is a resource hog..13:48
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* KotCzarny wrote a simple script to rip images from .ppt13:48
X-Fade_Yeah, I think you can also convert them to pdf with openoffice?13:49
Saviqyeah, file > save as pdf13:49
KotCzarnypdf? save as avi!13:49
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Saviqright, and that's no resource hog? ;)13:50
KotCzarnyor even better mpeg2 stream13:50
KotCzarnywell, you start with .ppt, so why stop in the middle of the fun?13:50
jdiazupload it to google docs13:50
jdiazand use the browser to see it13:51
jdiaz(GeneralAntilles, I'm back, but from a different computer without usbnet. I can't continue the recovering process)13:52
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GeneralAntillesWell, a straight reflash is always an option at this point. ;)13:53
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GeneralAntillesYou already backed up your user folder at least.13:53
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jdiazI'll wait until I can continue the recovering process in my office PC13:55
GeneralAntillesAlternatively, you could try beating it with a stick until it gives up all of its secrets. :D13:55
jdiazI can also prepare a SD "rescue" card, I guess13:55
blahdeblah-lapGeneralAntilles: Is fsck.vfat -fnvV of my SD card on a desktop system a good enough test to prove no corruption?13:56
GeneralAntillesShould be, blahdeblah-lap.13:57
GeneralAntillesBoth cards?13:57
GeneralAntillesWell, the only other reproducible thing that causes metalayer to go crazy is recursive symlinks.13:58
blahdeblah-lapAre any 3rd party apps known to create them?13:59
GeneralAntillesI suppose that's a possibility13:59
GeneralAntillesBut I don't know of any.13:59
jdiazthere exists some kind of "rescue disk" for NIT, which can be copied into the external flash memory, and then used to boot?14:03
KotCzarnynot yet14:03
KotCzarnythough you can create copy of your normal os14:03
KotCzarnyand run from it as usual14:03
jdiazonly mount, vi, and busybox would be required14:03
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jdiazI only need to edit /etc/passwd!14:03
GeneralAntillesjdiaz, you could always stick Debian on an ext2 partition on the card and boot that.14:04
KotCzarnythen it's included in fanoush initfs14:04
KotCzarnyi think14:04
Stskeepsdid anyone manage to do usbnet with a windows machine yet, per chance?14:04
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blahdeblah-lapGeneralAntilles: Are there any tools to find recursive symlinks?14:06
GeneralAntillesmetalayer-crawler? :D14:06
blahdeblah-lapWell, it's working!14:06
blahdeblah-lapThis is freaking driving me crazy14:07
* blahdeblah-lap goes back to the bug 1842 workaround14:07
GeneralAntillesJust kill it and move on. :P14:07
blahdeblah-lapBut every time i reboot it will come back!14:07
Stskeeps <- neat :)14:08
blahdeblah-lapHmmm...  Bug 1842 doesn't seem to have that workaround - maybe it was another one...14:08
GeneralAntillesThere's a number of workaround on itT.14:09
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K-Foxfennec browser is fast than microb?14:14
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GeneralAntillesNot in practice14:15
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GeneralAntillesIt's based on a much newer version of Firefox that has a lot of memory and js optimizations14:16
GeneralAntillesbut Fennec's is pretty slow and broken otherwise right now.14:16
GeneralAntillesMicroB will be merged with trunk for Diablo+114:17
GeneralAntillesOnce Fennec and MicroB are inline, then MicroB should be a little faster on the NITs.14:17
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GeneralAntillesLike we need more fragmentation on the software front.14:48
KotCzarnywell, seems like another repo14:49
X-Fade_I'm biased, so I might want to stay out of this one ;)14:49
KotCzarnyx-fade: no!14:50
KotCzarnyjust kidding14:50
GeneralAntillesIt seems like a very ill-considered decision. . . .14:50
GeneralAntillesWhat's wrong with setting up some sort of syndication from garage/downloads?14:50
X-Fade_GeneralAntilles: Well, without discussion...14:50
GeneralAntillesWe've already got a perfectly good system in place. . . .14:50
KotCzarnyperfectly isn't a good word for it14:51
KotCzarnywell, reading that post it's even worse..14:52
KotCzarnyit's encouraging users to post their own repos14:52
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hrwGeneralAntilles: maemo so-called community did not learnt anything from Zaurus guys15:09
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hrwGeneralAntilles: Zaurus had many distros and users used even antique ones. lot of fragmentation...15:09
hrwGeneralAntilles: now maemo users follow same direction within one distro15:10
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SakkathWill aircrack-ng work on on n800?15:19
Sakkath says 'become root'. I don't know the user psasword and it can't be changed with passwd15:19
infobotSorry, kotczarny, you have failed.15:20
KotCzarnyhrw, do you know owner of that bot?15:20
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Cptnodegardinfobot is i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt * TimRiker's infobot15:21
GeneralAntillesSakkath, has easyroot15:21
GeneralAntillesJust type "root" to gain a root shell once it's installed.15:21
KotCzarnycpt: but do you know him?15:22
KotCzarnythen it's not helping much15:22
KotCzarnybots shouldn't run unattended15:23
hrwinfobot: becomeroot is on Maemo to get root run "sudo gainroot" or dig in wiki for proper howto15:23
infobothrw: okay15:23
infobot[becomeroot] on Maemo to get root run "sudo gainroot" or dig in wiki for proper howto15:23
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KotCzarnygrammar failed?15:23
GeneralAntillesinfobot, easyroot is an easy way to gain a root shell.
infobot...but easyroot is already something else...15:24
infobotit has been said that easyroot is an easy way to get root access on OS2008 and can be found at http://nitapps.com15:24
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KotCzarnyinfobot: root is to get root look for: easyroot, becomeroot or ssh15:24
* infobot uses a keylogger to pwnz all is to get root look for: easyroot, becomeroot or ssh 's boxen.15:24
infobotfrom memory, root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.15:25
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hrwKotCzarny: remember that this bot is not only #maemo15:25
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KotCzarnyhrw: then double fail15:25
hrwKotCzarny: maemo suxx anyway15:25
KotCzarnyhrw: lol15:25
KotCzarnyhrw: anyway, have you seen my bootmenu?15:26
hrwKotCzarny: have it installed, never used15:26
hrwKotCzarny: bootmenu suxx when kernel outputs data15:27
KotCzarnyyou can configure it for this15:27
Sakkathcal_read_block(r&d_mode): size zero, block not found?      Enable RD mode if you want to break your device15:27
SakkathI need pc connection for R&D mode?15:28
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hrwSakkath: get used to it15:29
GeneralAntillesSakkath, install easyroot or becomeroot or ssh15:29
SakkathOh, I can install becomeroot15:29
SakkathI can't connect to wireless atm though, i don't know what's wrong15:29
Sakkath'Network connection error' <-- not too verbose15:29
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RST38hNew Canola is out!15:33
RST38h[and I am away from my tablet!]15:33
Cptnodegardaway from your tableT+ o.o15:34
Cptnodegardcruel person15:34
* RST38h weeps silently15:34
* Cptnodegard operates a BT device into his arms and makes an app that goes "hi daddy" when connection is made between device and tablet15:35
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hrwRST38h: no samba support?15:38
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Khertan_TheRealHi !15:45
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kcomemy N810 :P15:56
KotCzarnylooks stock15:57
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BlomFajka i alla fall.16:00
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* RST38h is happy to see that he is not the only one with N810 front panel slightly caved in at the right side16:09
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RST38h"A former Gentoo developer yesterday revealed that he has been working on a new hardcore Linux distribution, dubbed Exherbo."16:22
KotCzarnylets hope actual distro will be better than name16:23
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RST38h[and these people used to trash BSD for "many forks"?]16:23
KotCzarny'these' ?16:23
KotCzarnyit's a one person16:23
RST38hKot: will be another crapload of pseudo-hardcore stuff16:23
KotCzarnyat least from your citation16:23
KotCzarnywell, for me slacware is quite hardcore16:24
RST38hKot: I don't mean this particular guy, I mean the tendency16:24
GeneralAntillesHehe, I know the guy.16:24
GeneralAntilleshe's no chump16:24
kulve"OK, I Want to Try Exherbo16:24
kulveNo you don't."16:24
RST38hGA: Wants to be even more "hardcore" than Slackware? =)16:24
kulve"In Conclusion16:24
kulveIt's not that we hate you (unless we do). It's just that we have nothing to offer you, and you have nothing to offer us."16:24
VeggenKotCzarny/RST38h: Getting rid of forks like that can't be done without getting rid of some of the creativity surrounding Linux.16:25
thopiekarhi @ all16:25
GeneralAntillesIt's not a "hardcore" epenis issue.16:25
RST38h"-- Then why the hell did you write this in the first place?"16:25
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KotCzarny'just because he can' ?16:26
RST38hVeggen: I do not see creativity here. I see people continually repackaging somebody else's work adorned with their own configuration/management/installation/packaging scripts16:26
trickie_its not a fork16:26
GeneralAntillesIt's largely new stuff, actually.16:26
RST38hit is another distro16:26
trickie_it has some in common from gentoo land16:26
VeggenRST38h: but sometimes, someone makes something radically better or in a better way than done before.16:26
RST38hVeggen: sometimes yes. very very rarely.16:26
KotCzarnyname is bad, still16:27
GeneralAntillesuproot in latin.16:27
VeggenRST38h: True, but still - since there is so much interest in Linux, it's not possible to differ between good forks and bad forks like that.16:27
thopiekari've got a problem getting up eth0 of my usb-lan adapter... it is using the asix.ko - module... if i set in the command in the console: ifconfig eth0 up.. my n800 freezes and the screen "crashes"... how can i fix this and get eth0 working??16:27
RST38hGA: So, what is this guy uprooting, anyway?16:27
VeggenRST38h: THere's noone to tell someone that "this is a bad fork". And sometimes, that's a good thing, because sometimes something that looks bad ends up being the good choice.16:28
VeggenIn the end, the ability to fork leads to better systems.16:28
KotCzarnyin commerce many brands fork16:28
KotCzarnyjust to confuse customers16:29
RST38hVeggen: with the current number of distros, the first thing that comes to mind is "let's wait until these guys figure out just what exactly Linux is" :)16:29
KotCzarny'hey, we've got something new'16:29
KhertanRST38h > pfff16:29
KotCzarnylinux is a kernel16:29
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RST38hAnd no, as a layman, I will not buy "Linux is a Kernel!" crap ;)16:29
RST38hKot <-- types faster ;)16:30
KotCzarnyunless you talk about linux os16:30
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KotCzarnyrst: but hey, if i take away all the libs, is it still linux?16:32
RST38h" related news, a company called Ulteo took a well known public coLinux project and advertises it as 'Ulteo Virtual Desktop'" :)16:32
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RST38hKot: My guess is, it is not Linux unless it works16:33
KotCzarnyrst: ok, kernel + one static binary16:33
RST38hKot: Which means, you are gonna have kernel, libs, and apps16:33
KotCzarnyis it linux?16:33
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RST38hProbably, but do not try selling it to users =)16:33
KotCzarny'do one thing, but do it good'16:33
KotCzarny;)16:33 run BASH!16:34
KotCzarnyyou run, then you bash?16:34
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RST38hKot: you run, then customers bash you16:34
KotCzarnyyou need firewall then16:34
KotCzarnyburn the bastards16:35
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czrjust hope they don't install the firewall the wrong way around16:37
RST38hKot: you said ONE binary ;)16:37
KotCzarny'fire in the hole' ?16:37
czrRST38h, one could use the kuserm (or smt like that) that allows you to run executables in kernel, then fuze the initramfs into the kernel image.16:38
KotCzarnyrst, well, you can always links some firewall.o to your binary16:38
czralthough maybe the latter part would be enough..16:38
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KotCzarnyor load your apps as modules?16:39
RST38hload them as kernel modules, right16:39
KotCzarnythat would be fun16:39
RST38hinclude GIMP as a kernel module16:39
RST38hthen sell the whole pile as a "new virtualization paradigm"16:39
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KotCzarnyyou can even make them disposable16:39
KotCzarnyie. you can even them once16:39
KotCzarnythen you need new licence16:40
GeneralAntillesWith a monolithic kernel, anything is possible!16:40
KotCzarnyhiho-man: obscure language16:40
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* KotCzarny hates spam in foreign languages16:41
KotCzarnyjvm as kernel module16:42
Khertana stupid online game16:42
KotCzarnythey put it in arm, so why not in kernel?16:43
KhertanKotCzarny > kernel module should not eat more that 512Mo of RAM ...16:43
KotCzarnyshould not != can not16:43
KotCzarnyand what unit it is?16:43
Khertanyeah of course ... so jvm in a kernel module ...16:43
KotCzarnyMega ovums?16:44
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Khertanarf ... sorry i'm french16:44
KotCzarnyMega bits?16:44
Khertani'm a french dev ... which code in a french language ... (4D ... for who know)16:45
Khertanso sometimes ... the switch isn't well made ...16:45
czrI thought 4D was just time. not a french programming language.16:45
* czr learns new things16:45
Khertan... 4D is it16:45
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Khertanit s a rad ...16:45
KotCzarnyanother spam?16:45
czrit's like asdfasdf16:45
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KotCzarnyobscure language too16:46
Khertantoo :)16:46
czrwith gurgling sounds and stuff?16:46
KotCzarnybut motto they have in english16:47
Khertanwhat's is funny is that the programming language is available in French, English, Deutsh, and Spain language16:47
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czrwhat. no finnish?16:47
* czr pities the fools16:48
KotCzarnyyou can translate c names to french too16:48
KotCzarnynot that it would make much sense16:48
czrthe parser would be much more interesting16:48
Khertanand is stored in the file as bytecode ... so you can see a french source code16:48
czrfrench sauce code.16:48
Khertanin spain16:48
KotCzarnyfrench bytes.. mm16:48
Khertanbut ... it s bit lazy16:48
KotCzarnyfor lazy projects i like php16:48
Khertani prefer goto++16:49
czrdoes it have turtles?16:49
KotCzarnygoto is to stiff16:49
czrwithout turtles the language is not useful!16:49
czra language needs to have turtles.16:49
czror snakes16:49
KotCzarnysnakes on a language?16:50
czr"Designed in the middle of the nineties by the scientists of ©NIACsoftware, this brand new method to approach the computer science will change your life! "16:50
czrsomehow I doubt that sentence..16:50
czrKotCzarny, :-)16:50
Khertangoto++ (or gotopp) tg16:51
KotCzarnyavailable in drug store near you?16:51
czr"A new version of the GOTO++ is available! It is the 0.30 version and it adds a lot of bugs, yahoo!"16:51
Khertanthe best french language16:51
KhertanGOTOPRINTDUTEXTE() ; «Hello World !»16:51
KhertanGOTO which do nothing16:51
KhertanGOTOGOTO() *(1)16:51
czrnow I know why microsoft wanted to buy yahoo.16:51
Khertanyahoo is not french ?16:51
czrso that they could migrate all their INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY from VB to Pogo++16:51
czrmy logic is convoluted,16:52
czr"The language has been sligthy modified but the documentation is not entirely up to date, in order to stiffen the transition."16:52
czrsomehow I get the impression that the dev team of GOTO++ strives to add problems that most other people try to get rid of :-)16:52
* RST38h liked PERL in Latin more16:53
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KotCzarnyin piglatin?16:53
RST38hmore or less16:53
RST38ha moment16:53
KhertanCreerTortue () :Fenetre16:53
Khertan? Tortue16:53
Khertanthere is a function CreerTortue ... (in english CreateTurtle)16:54
czrsorry but are these people serious? ( )16:54
KotCzarnydid you know that latin was lacking letter 'v' ?16:54
RST38hczr: no. did you have to ask?:)16:54
RST38hkot: yes16:54
KhertanThis command is very similar to GOTOGOTO, the only difference is that it is possible to return to education which follows with a REGOTO.16:54
KhertanIt is possible to recover the value returned by REGOTO.16:54
czrRST38h, long day.. I've lost my humour :-)16:55
RST38hKot: it was lacking U actually16:55
RST38hUse V for U16:55
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KotCzarnyor other way round16:55
Khertanthis is not a serious language ... but it work16:55
Khertanthere is binding for gtk16:55
RST38hCheck the nearest courthouse in the US for confirmation16:55
Khertanand a real compiler16:55
disqooh grumby is good16:55
KotCzarnyrst, yeah, i know16:55
Khertanbut i ll never use this ...16:55
RST38hthose places usually have thoughtful latin inscriptions at the front16:55
czrKhertan, does it compile itself?16:55
czrKhertan, it's not a real compiler otherwise.16:55
Khertani think no ...16:56
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czrin latin it will sound profound.16:56
KotCzarnyor 'KEEP RIGHT'16:56
KotCzarnymaybe in 3000 years some guys would find ruins of our civilization16:57
RST38hand be puzzled16:57
czrdamn, I knew one day a book that I have would become handy16:57
czr"Pulle! Visne Frustum?"16:57
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czr(Polly want a cracker? in Latin)16:57
RST38hPlastic Ronald McDonald statues would probably generate the biggest amount of scholarly papers16:57
czror: Utinam logica falsa tuam philosophiam totam suffodiant!16:58
czr(May faulty logic undermine your entire philosophy!)16:58
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GeneralAntillesThe idols of our civilization, RST38h? :D16:59
czrForas gradiamur (Let's step outside)16:59
RST38hGA: Most likely16:59
KotCzarnywell, plastic is edible17:00
RST38hWould probably qualify as a minor deity local to thenorthwestern indochina17:00
czrvideris humilor seniorque coram17:01
czrit sounds profound, I tell you17:01
czr(You look shorter and older in person)17:01
RST38hIf Ronald is lucky, he may even be considered a God of Pedophilia17:02
KotCzarnymore like god of bad diet17:03
RST38hWith all those pictures of Him with children? With that Smile?17:03
RST38hWell, hamburgers won't survive into that time, but advertising materials will17:03
KotCzarnypaper is edible too17:03
RST38hEverything is edible under certain circumstances =)17:03
RST38hForget the Ronald though, the really big question is what archeologists would think of all those iPod docks.17:05
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KotCzarnythere would be no music on them17:05
KotCzarnyby that time17:05
RST38hno iPods either17:05
RST38hThey would probably not be classified to be the same kind of device, with all those shapes17:06
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KotCzarnythat depends if aliens profile us already17:06
RST38hWould look like somebody sticking weird sockets into household items17:06
KotCzarnystick it in a hole17:07
RST38hIt does not: an iPod dock has not constant shape, so whatever aliens think of us, they would have to figure out that all those pieces of plastic srve the same function17:07
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czr"it must be some kind of device where these things plugged themselves to watch simulporn"17:07
KotCzarnyit's shiny17:08
czrright. "shiny simulporn"17:08
KotCzarnyit has a button17:09
czrto join/detach from the session obviously.17:09
KotCzarnydeath ray17:10
KotCzarnywell, maybe not originals17:10
czror. maybe. "Summon Dragon"17:10
RST38hKot: You reminded me17:10
KotCzarnybut some chinese models have it17:10
RST38hForget McDonalds. Forget iPod docks.17:10
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RST38hWhat about StarWars light saber replicas?17:11
RST38hIf you were an archeologist, what would you say of THAT17:11
czrRST38h, piece of some fancy exhaust piping system?17:11
KotCzarnyrst: do they vibrate?17:11
KotCzarnythey are just dildos for boys17:11
KotCzarnypsychological dildos17:12
RST38hI agree with Kot on dildo function17:13
KotCzarnythat reminds me,
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jdiazGeneralAntilles, are you still here?17:19
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jdiazI finally got the usb network connection17:20
jdiazI'm root now. How is named the device which represents the old root filesystem?17:21
KotCzarny /dev/mtdblock417:21
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GeneralAntillesThe mount command is in fanoush's readme file.17:21
jdiazoops... the tablet shut down17:21
jdiazprobably too much time without activity?17:22
jdiazbut I had a telnet connection established...17:22
KotCzarnymaybe watchdog17:22
KotCzarnyor accidental ctrl-d17:22
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jdiazmount /dev/mtdblock4 /mnt/new_root/17:23
jdiazdoesnt work17:23
jdiazInvalid argument17:23
GeneralAntillesmount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock4 /tmp/mnt17:24
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jdiazok, mounted, and /etc/passwd edited17:25
RST38hHolographic Bill Gates terrorizes Kuala Lumpur tech conference17:25
jdiazrebooting noe17:25
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RST38hThe crowd cheered -- or screamed in terror -- as the giant 4.6-meter holographic specter assured them that technology is, in fact, the future.17:25
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KotCzarnyfuture terror has a bright future?17:26
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jdiazGA done. /etc/passwd and /etc/sudoers fixed17:28
GeneralAntillesOnly took 2 hours. :D17:28
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jdiaznaah, you are also counting 1:30h for launch17:29
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jdiazone minor problem remains, now after each reboot, the tablet keeps asking me the date and time17:29
KotCzarnynow you are prepared for some serious breakages17:29
jdiazprobably something in linuxrc17:29
* qwerty12 is surprised 31 people actually downloaded upstart17:29
pupnik_testing the camera, GeneralAntilles17:30
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qwerty12jdiaz, Not in linuxrc. Linuxrc is for the initfs. After linuxrc mounts rootfs on /, control is gone.17:30
jdiazcan I freely edit /mnt/initrc scripts?17:30
qwerty12jdiaz, no17:30
* RST38h wonders why nobody has used camera as a cheapo replacement fo accelerometer yet17:30
KotCzarnywhy no?17:30
pupnik_great idea RST38h17:31
qwerty12Not straight from /mnt/initfs iirc17:31
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jdiazhmmm... then why the tablet ask me the date, if all what was modified was initrc?17:31
KotCzarnyrst: because camera is crappy?17:31
RST38hKot: does not matter17:31
qwerty12Unless you are doing it through bootmenu :/17:31
qwerty12jdiaz, what did you change?17:31
RST38hIt will do for computing visual flow17:31
RST38hand theless pixels - the better17:31
KotCzarnyrst: well, if you want to compute noise flow17:31
RST38hit's not that bad, although you MAY need to wear a striped tshirt to play =)17:32
KotCzarnynot to mention i only managed mplayer/mencoder to work with it17:32
RST38hthere should be interface that lets you download the current image17:32
KotCzarnynone other v4l[12] app wanted to grab17:32
jdiazI installed fanoush initrc17:32
KotCzarnyie, they can set mode, params17:32
RST38hyou do not need a v4l app, just direct access to the image and some highly optimized math17:33
KotCzarnybut actual read from fd fails with 'invalid argument'17:33
RST38hlemme check17:33
KotCzarnyrst: how do i grab data from webcam then?17:33
jdiazno, wait... fanoush initrc has nothing to do here...17:33
qwerty12jdiaz, That's it? i've been using bootmenu fine. I even added it in manually off a computer for the diablo initfs which it doesn't support officially yet.17:33
KotCzarnyworking example would be nice17:33
qwerty12I just saw new msg.17:33
jdiazGeneralAntilles used fanoush initrc in order to create an initrc jffs2 image17:34
jdiazhe gave the image to me17:34
jdiazI flashed it using nokia flasher17:34
jdiazthat is17:34
jdiaznow, when I boot, I have a boot menu17:34
qwerty12You can make an fanoush initfs image off the device.17:34
GeneralAntillesBut not without root access, qwerty12. ;)17:34
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RST38hUsing GStreamer for it is atrocious though17:34
jdiazyes, but I was unable because I'd lost root access17:35
Khertansomeone have try mCalendar ?17:35
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Ahh, I see. My bad.17:35
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qwerty12KotCzarny, Applying your colour mod now :)17:35
RST38hKot: you do nt need the jpeg stuff17:35
qwerty12With fb_update mode.17:35
RST38hKot: And if you really want to know how to compute motion flow, let me know17:35
KotCzarnyrst: you call using gstreamer direct access?17:35
jdiaznow, when I boot from internal flash, all looks as ever, but a dialog appears asking me the date17:35
RST38hKot: I call it available access.17:36
RST38hSometimes, you have to do with whatever [shit] you are given17:36
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trickie_jdiaz: maybe you need to set the hardware clock17:36
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KotCzarnyi would prefer mencoder then17:36
jdiazperhaps some datetime skew between the files GA provided me, and my own clock17:36
KotCzarnyjdiaz: flash your original initfs now ?17:37
RST38hKot: I am currently checking if more direct approach is possible17:37
KotCzarnyrst: it certainly is17:37
KotCzarnyrst: mencoder just grabs /dev/video017:37
jdiazhow can I obtain my original initfs now?17:37
KotCzarnyjdiaz: you made a backup, didn't you?17:37
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jdiazno, I was unable. I'd lost root access17:37
RST38hYou will need to do a few ioctl()s before being able to read17:37
jdiazthat was the only way to regain root access, indeed17:38
RST38hQUERYCAP is probably a must on Maemo - that is why everybody but mencoder fails reading it17:38
KotCzarnyrst, i know, and as i said, i have tried normal v4l[12] apps17:38
qwerty12jdiaz, You can extract it using flasher.17:38
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GeneralAntillesjdiaz, just grab the FIASCO image from
qwerty12I've got an Chinook original initfs on my desktop if you want it?17:38
KotCzarnyqwerty: to olate17:38
qwerty12KotCzarny, Why?17:39
GeneralAntillesthen: ./flasher-3.0-static -F <FIASCO bin> --flash-only=initfs -R17:39
KotCzarnyqwerty: too late for making a backup from an already overwritten one :)17:39
jdiazwell, in fact I do prefer this initfs, because of the usbnetwork rescue mode17:40
qwerty12KotCzarny, I'm not saying to make a backup :/17:40
jdiazonly that dialog about the date/time annoys me a bit17:40
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KotCzarnyqwerty: it's late here, sorry if i say anything stupid :)17:40
GeneralAntillesjdiaz, alternatively you can download fanoush's initfs flasher onto the device and setup the bootmenu.conf how you want it.17:40
qwerty12KotCzarny, No worries :)17:40
jdiazanyway, the suggested date time is always correct. All what I need to do is to hit the "OK"17:40
qwerty12jdiaz, Edit it out of the init script :/. osso-af-init handles it somewhere.17:41
GeneralAntillesjdiaz, yeah, I don't have a clue as to why that's popping up.17:41
qwerty12jdiaz, here's another idea. set the hardware clock using retutime17:41
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qwerty12/mnt/initfs/usr/bin/retutime --get-time-from-system17:42
qwerty12or somehting like that :p17:42
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trickie_/mnt/initfs/usr/bin/retutime --rtc-from-system17:43
qwerty12That's it :)17:43
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jdiazok, the command was run17:44
jdiazno output17:45
jdiazI'll reboot17:45
qwerty12Cool :)17:46
GeneralAntillesActually, now that I think about it, maybe N800/N810 thing?17:46
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GeneralAntillesYeah, it was generated on an N800.17:46
qwerty12Doesn't matter. linuxrc checks to see which RX it is running off.17:47
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KotCzarnyrst: yeah, that may be the reason, ie. read() vs mmap()17:48
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KotCzarnymplayer uses mmap17:48
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RST38hMy guess is read() will work as well17:49
RST38hwhen you send right ioctls up front17:49
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* jdiaz is documenting the whole odisea17:49
KotCzarnyrst: which one?17:50
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RST38hI am looking at this thing for the first time17:50
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RST38hWould try with gstreamer first as the method of obtaining video is not important for a prototype17:51
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sparr_whats the best route if i forget the startup passcode for my 770?17:52
qwerty12burn it17:52
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KotCzarnyhit it with a hammer17:52
qwerty12I don't know if powerlaunch with powertool runs on 77017:52
KotCzarnywhat's the startup passcode?17:52
qwerty12sparr_, Do you have fanoush bootmenu installed? Are you trying to get the code for fun or has your 770 locked you out?17:53
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sparr_no.  locked out.17:55
befordnow that somebody is talking about the lock code, what's the default code?17:55
sparr_and its not mine, its a friend of a friends17:55
KotCzarny12345 ?17:55
johnxbeford, 12345 I think17:56
* beford tries17:56
KotCzarnycan be found in config partition17:56
RST38hAll right, one more patch and I am going home17:56
K-Foxwhat is port of rdesktop?17:56
qwerty12I've never figured out how to retrieve it from config. I ran cat on the config partition and never saw the number :/17:56
K-Foxport number17:57
qwerty12check www.portforward.com17:57
befordthat worked, thanks17:57
KotCzarnyrst: to your beloved n8x0 ?17:58
RST38hsomthing like that17:58
RST38hso sodomize it with Canola17:58
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KotCzarnybtw. max for camera is 16fps at 352x28817:59
qwerty12I plug USB cables into the N800 but I draw the line at sodomizing it...17:59
KotCzarny*4 or /4 depending on res17:59
RST38hKot: what is the min?17:59
RST38hOnly need the min17:59
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KotCzarny176x144 worked17:59
KotCzarnyhaven't tried smaller17:59
qwerty12176x144 is max resolution of video on my phone :/18:00
RST38hqwerty<-- owns a pre-S60e3 phone18:00
KotCzarnyi should get me some sleep18:00
* KotCzarny owns s60v1 phone18:00
* RST38h also had one18:01
* qwerty12 smashed up S60v118:01
RST38hActually, two, 7650 and 365018:01
qwerty12I have W810 - ENEA OSE, P1i - Symbian 9.1 UIQ3 and N80 - Symbian 9.1 S60v318:01
RST38h7650 was a real brick, pretty much like N95 now18:01
qwerty12I used to have N-Gage but I smashed it up.18:01
RST38hN80 is cool18:01
qwerty12My friend has 7650, started taking the piss out of him.18:01
qwerty12It's a brick :p18:02
qwerty12I just carry the W810 and P1i. (with n800 ofc)18:02
RST38htwo at the same time?18:02
RST38hAND n800?18:02
qwerty12Yeah, my school blazer has pockets :p18:02
KotCzarnyand probably a bunch of other stuff18:02
sparr_once pandora comes out ( ill be able to ditch all my other handhelds...  will be sad to see my gp2x and n770 go, but my pockets will thank me18:03
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befordI have a w810 too and got me the n810 this week :P18:03
KotCzarnywhat's the price estimate on pandora?18:03
GeneralAntillesSoooo ugly. :shudder:18:03
pupnikOk i finally got basically decent recording from the N810 screen  (duke nukem)18:04
RST38hsparr: don't hold your breath though18:04
sparr_RST38h: why?18:04
sparr_KotCzarny: $500 if the dollar keeps going the way it is...  was less when i first heard about it18:04
qwerty12£250 is too expensive.18:05
sparr_about $350 today18:05
qwerty12I bought my PSP for less.18:05
RST38hsparr: Small company, ugly prototype18:05
sparr_that's £19918:05
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RST38heither burns through funds before it reaches product quality OR shortly thereafter18:05
sparr_ugly prototype?  the prototype doesnt even have a case yet, of course its ugly18:05
KotCzarny350$ for omap3 ?18:05
KotCzarnyand the open one ?18:05
* RST38h has seen it in a case - the ugly boxy one, with qwerty keyboard18:05
myscKotC, you were right, the n810 is not worth the extra $$ over the n80018:05
sparr_or are you talking about the case in the photo?  that's not even a prototype yet18:06
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qwerty12If it's better than N900, I'll go for the Pandora. I bet N900 will still be closed. Usually, I wouldn't give a shit but I've seen what happens with N800 with closed source stuff.18:06
RST38hAnyways. I would rather wait 6 more months for Nokia to switch to OMAP318:06
KotCzarnyunless n900 come with all libs18:07
myscn900 is already being talked about?18:07
KotCzarnyand everything going at high performance18:07
sparr_im a big gamer, i cant buy another handheld without gaming controls.  playing even simple stuff on nokia's handhelds is annoying18:07
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pupnikpandora is a fairly heroic effort by a dedicated tiny team with very little money18:07
GeneralAntillesSince at least last year, mysc.18:07
RST38hsparr: buy a nokia phone18:07
K-Fox2when n900 is out?18:07
myscGA, i thought it was ppl thinking the wimax was the 900 :)18:07
KotCzarnyrst: or psp?18:07
RST38hpupnik: which is a delicate way to say "doomed to failure" :)18:07
GeneralAntillesNo, mysc.18:08
RST38hKot: PSP is way too closed18:08
johnxK-Fox2, everytime you ask it gets delayed by a year18:08
qwerty12PSP pwns for games. I'd use mine more if the joystick wasn't broken.18:08
KotCzarnyrst: but has commercial, dedicated games18:08
GeneralAntillesIt has always been clear that the WiMAX tablet was just going to be an existing tablet with WiMAX18:08
myschave any of you played with installing ubuntu on the n8x0?18:08
pupnikRST38h: financially it is quite risky, yes.18:08
johnxmysc, no. just debian.18:08
GeneralAntillesExcept, maybe, to some idiots who made a stupid article about Nokia's "iPhone Killer"18:08
RST38hKot: At $50+ a pop, they will have to find somebody else to buy it18:08
* qwerty12 walks away...18:09
myscjohnx, heard of the mojo group?18:09
RST38hKot: Albeit in Moscow you can easily buy a hacked PSP18:09
KotCzarnyrst: any games you can get for n8x0 ?18:09
johnxmysc, yeah.18:09
sparr_RST38h: i really don't want all the hoopla in a phone18:09
RST38hKot: yea, I have got some18:09
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* RST38h does not play fancy 3d stuff anyway so psp isn't very important for him18:10
sparr_KotCzarny: "commercial dedicated games" are overrated.  ill take my gp2x with 20000 snes/nes/sms/genesis/neogeo games on it over a nds with a few dozen "commercial dedicated games"18:10
RST38hLess important than ability to run gcc18:10
hrwmysc: the problem with non-maemo systems is that they have to rely on maemo anyway18:10
KotCzarnygp2x: 20000 games are stolen18:10
myscjohnx, do you have an 800 or 810?18:10
myschrw, yes and is incorporating qt in addition to hildon.18:10
sparr_let's not have a discussion about abadonware.  to each their own.18:10
KotCzarnythere is no such thing as abandonware (law wise)18:11
myscjohnx, would you consider the n810 or paying double for bad gps is not worth it :)18:11
hrwmysc: show me non-maemo distro for n8x0 which will have working wifi, bt, sound, battery and will not use components from maemo18:11
RST38hKILL, my little lawyers, KILL!18:11
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* qwerty12 is dreaming but I would like to try rockbox on my N800. Need something that feels like a proper mp3 player (except canola)18:11
johnxmysc, it depends on how much you want a built in keyboard and a sunlight viewable screen18:11
pupnikjust did some xterm in full sunlight18:12
pupnikwith backlight all the way down - amazingly good18:12
hrwmysc: I bought n810 because it has hw keyboard.18:12
RST38hhrw: a mediocre keyboard18:12
KotCzarnyyeah, the screen i could fall for18:12
myscthe kb is nice, but to be honest, i rather plug in a usb kb or a bt kb18:12
hrwRST38h: but keyboard18:12
RST38hE70 phone has better keyboard then N81018:12
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hrwRST38h: but is not armv6 linux powered device?18:13
sparr_KotCzarny: not entirely true...  some copyrights are truly abandoned, the entities that held them having ceased to exist without transferring them.  but, that point aside, if a company is not willing to sell me their software, then i have no problem "stealing" it18:13
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myscif you're gonna do serious typing the hw kb on 810 is not good. if you're not then the on screen is enough18:13
RST38hhrw: it is symbian18:13
KotCzarnyyeah, e7018:13
KotCzarnybut 5510 was first18:13
johnxmysc, if you want to use IM or IRC the onscreen keyboard is annoying18:14
RST38hKot: true, but no programmable platform18:14
KotCzarnyrst: not true18:14
qwerty12Java isn't really great on S40 phones.18:14
patohand s40 phones love to crash18:14
GeneralAntillesjohnx, it's not that bad. :P18:14
glasson midp2(and midp1) textboxes etc gui building is pretty primitive18:15
myscjohnx, it doesn't justify the $200+ though18:15
KotCzarnyrexx on 551018:15
glasshard to make good looking/feeling stuff18:15
KotCzarny(and few others ;)18:15
johnxGeneralAntilles, the bad part isn't typing, it's that it takes over the whole screen18:15
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hrwmysc: to tell the truth none of nokia tablets is fine device18:15
qwerty12java sucks.18:15
johnxmysc, right. so the N800 would be better for you then18:15
RST38hsucks moose balls18:15
hrweach of them has ugly parts but also each has some good parts (except 770 which has only one)18:16
myscjohnx, yeah, i mean ima gonna irc from it, i'll just use one of those nice igo bt kb's18:16
qwerty12lol, "Warning Maybe NSFW => Naked RX-48"18:16
KotCzarnymysc: be aware that bt kb is laggy18:16
sparr_RST38h: is this the case you think is ugly?
KotCzarnyon my n800 at least18:16
johnxmysc, that will work fine as long as you're sitting somewhere18:16
GeneralAntillesJust gotta type faster, johnx. :P18:17
myscyeah, laggy and also can fall prey to timing attacks18:17
GeneralAntillesSpend as little time there as possible. ;)18:17
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KotCzarnythat pandora box will be a hand killer18:17
KotCzarnywith those sharp corners sticking into palms18:17
myscare there any other cheap linux-on-pda alternatives?18:17
KotCzarnymysc: zaurus?18:18
myscis that sharp?18:18
qwerty12Is there any other port of doom rather than INdT's one?18:18
sparr_KotCzarny: you never spent 8 hours with a NES controller in your hand did you?18:18
KotCzarnysparr: nope18:18
johnxyeah. it's also discontinued18:18
sparr_those "sharp" corners don't really matter18:18
myscah, smallish screen, right?18:18
KotCzarnysparr: not true18:18
johnxsparr_, the render has *really* sharp looking corners18:19
sparr_johnx: the one i just linked?18:19
johnxsp3000, yes. I doubt they'll do that for the real product of course18:19
mysci shoulda gotten an n800 when the prices hit bottom some weeks ago...instead got an 810 and now the 800s have gone back up in price18:19
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johnxthe zaurus screen isn't that small...but it is smaller than the n800/n81018:20
johnxsparr, look at the edges on the left and right side of the keyboard where they curve up to a knife edge18:20
sparrjohnx: ahh18:21
qwerty12eww. looks ugly :/. Seeing dcemu reminds me of my dreamcast :(18:21
sparrthat render is old18:21
sparrKotCzarny: ^^18:21
* johnx misses his dreamcast :/18:21
sparrjohnx: they should probably curve them more, youre right.18:21
KotCzarnybut gives some impression about possibilities18:21
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johnxsparr, I'm sure they will for the actual production18:22
KotCzarnynewer render has sharper edges18:22
sparrnewer render has better keyboard18:22
KotCzarnysome rubber could fix it though18:22
sparrthe neat thing about sharp corners on a prototype...  they can be fixed without fancy tools  :)18:22
mysccan any of you do a screenshot of an xterm on an n800 with the onscreen kb on? (both the full finger and the small one made for the stylus)?18:23
johnxyeah, just a file and 20 minutes :)18:23
KotCzarnyjohnx: or a can of silicone18:23
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johnxmysc, well the fullscreen keyboard looks the same in all apps18:23
GeneralAntillesExactly the same as the screenshot I gave you before. :P18:23
myscjohnx, about 50% of the screen?18:23
sparrmysc: on my 770 i preferred to use the terminal with the transparent keyboard18:24
qwerty12mysc, full finger looks same everywhere18:24
johnxmysc, the fullscreen keyboard takes *the whole screen*18:24
KotCzarny770 had a transparent osk?18:24
qwerty12There was xterm build18:24
KotCzarnyhmm hmm18:24
myscwhole screen? eek18:24
johnxthus "full" "screen" "keyboard"18:24
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myscis the small kb the same as the 810's about 40-45% of screen?18:24
GeneralAntillesmysc, you saw my screenshot. . . .18:24
qwerty12OWW. Bad colour scheme.18:25
* KotCzarny hates black-on-white 18:25
myscGA, ah nice. that's the small kb, like the 810s. yours GA was bigger and transparent18:25
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qwerty12sparr, nice18:25
GeneralAntillesNot transparent.18:25
sparrthat's translucent, it has a mode where the keys are invisible, just letters18:25
myscdo you have to patch xterm for this functionality?18:26
sparri liked that one because the keyboard could be hidden/unhidden/moved without affecting the size/shape of the terminal window18:26
KotCzarnysparr: try xvkbd18:26
qwerty12The source is available. Anyone want to integrate it into the current xterm?18:26
KotCzarnyi have to add enter for hildonized apps though :/18:26
myscdo you have a garage for this Kot?18:28
KotCzarnymysc: yes, on my laptop18:28
myscso what's the best translucent virt kb that'll work on the latest set of apps (os 08) ?18:28
KotCzarnymysc: try googling for n800 xvkbd18:28
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myscoh one pet peeve: if i input using handwriting in xterm i can't do words... so "hello" quickly yields "hhehelhellhello"18:30
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myscsparr, is the one you showed out for os2008?18:32
sparri dont think so18:32
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qwerty12Source is there though. Anyone willing to add it into current xterm? I may try and fail sometime.18:32
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KotCzarnyqwerty: link?18:34
johnxKhertan, installing mcalendar right now :)18:34
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qwerty12Keyboard is just python program, my guess xterm runs it on opening.18:35
KotCzarnyi'm interested in transluency18:36
mysccan you go back to standard kb after installing that qwerty?18:36
qwerty12mysc, You should be able to, just install libvte and osso-xterm from the svn.18:37
Khertanargggg g!!! g!gg! !g g!g still looking why my icon isn't show in the taskbar !18:37
mysci meant on the fly flipping between kb styles18:37
qwerty12No idea, that isn't even for OS2008 anyway.18:38
qwerty12I've never had a 770 to try it on.18:38
Khertansomeone know if their is somewhere a thing where i can get error on a .desktop at launch or other things like .services18:38
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Khertans/error/error log18:38
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qwerty12Maybe launch the program with dbus-send, but not sure on how to do it.18:38
johnxKhertan, I guess I'm missing sqlite for python. Any idea where to get it?18:38
myschrmmm, i guess you could become a pro with thumb typing on the stylus kb :)18:39
GeneralAntillesIt's not bad, actually, mysc.18:39
johnxI guess my thumbs are too big :/18:39
myscjust have to file away the sides of your thumbs with some sandpaper  :>18:39
GeneralAntillesUse the tips of your thumbs18:39
GeneralAntilles /nail18:39
KotCzarnyjohnx, stick something to your thumbs18:39
GeneralAntillesPads don't work for that. ;)18:40
KotCzarnymaybe thinble?18:40
johnxI'll stick to using the fullscreen keyboard...18:40
myscthe new market for thimbles, old women who sew and young geeks who irc on n800  :>18:40
* qwerty12 never uses fullscreen keyboard18:40
johnxI'll just keep irc'ing on the zaurus :P18:40
GeneralAntillesWhy, qwerty?18:41
GeneralAntillesThe fullscreen keyboard is great.18:41
Khertanjohnx > it s not in the python2.5-runtime ?18:41
myscjohnx, what zaurus do you have and what linux is on it?18:41
KotCzarnyfull laptop keyboard is great18:41
Khertanoups ... so it seems i should add some depandancy ...18:41
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Because I prefer to see the program and I'm too used to the small keyboard now.18:41
johnxmysc, C1000 w/ angstrom on SD and Debian on USB18:41
johnxKhertan, one sec18:41
myscdo they still sell the zaurus' ?18:42
johnxthey don't make it18:42
johnxI think you can find leftover stock or a used model18:42
Khertanjohnx :
myscjohnx how does it compare to nokia18:43
Khertanmysc > no integrated wifi18:43
Khertanand using an card sucks battery power18:43
Khertanit s the main differences for me18:43
johnxmysc, nice keyboard, good open source linux support, but half the RAM, half the flash, slower CPU, less idle time18:43
johnxthe formfactor is nice and solid18:44
myscah, i see.18:44
johnxthe lack of built in wifi and bluetooth is kind of a PITA though18:44
myscwhat do you need a usb->wifi adaptor?18:44
johnxcompactflash wifi is the only reasonable way18:44
johnxusb wifi would need a powered hub18:44
KotCzarnyand a lot of power18:45
johnxeh...not *a lot*18:45
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johnxjust 2 nimh AAs would be fine I think18:45
KotCzarnyi have yet to see a card with lower than 500mA spec18:45
johnxbut they don't use that *all the time*18:46
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KotCzarnybut it won't be 100mA too18:46
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johnxwell of course not18:46
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johnxhmm...maybe 4 AAs would be better...anyways the point is, once you involve an external hub it's not really mobile any more18:47
KotCzarnyjohnx: backpack18:48
myscso you all would not hesistate to recommend the 800? cause i am having trouble justifying a higher pricetag on the n81018:48
johnxyeah, just toss a couple car batteries back there, run some low guage wire up over your back...18:49
KotCzarnyjohnx: yup18:49
Khertanjohnx> pysqlite for maemo :
KotCzarnyweeks of fun18:49
johnxKhertan, thanks18:49
johnxKhertan, you might want to add that as a dependency, then :)18:49
Khertanthis is the one build by Tahitibob ...18:49
Khertanyes i ll do it ...18:50
Khertanfirst report :)18:50
unixSnobAny Australians or Belgians in here?18:50
* unixSnob would like to know if Australia or Belgium have per diem for traveling contractors18:50
johnxmysc, what do you want it for? hacking around in linux? web surfing? PIM?18:50
Khertanwhat the link between Australians and Belgian ?18:50
unixSnobkhertan - no link.. I may work in either of those countries soon18:51
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KotCzarnythey lie on the opposite ends of earth?18:51
Khertanmysc> zaurus is better for one thing : wifi packet sniffing ...18:51
qwerty12That's a link? :/18:52
myscjohnx, hacking around linux, irc, occasional webmail18:52
unixSnobyeah, I live right between them18:52
myscKhertan, i don't want to sniff wifi or inject  :P18:52
johnxmysc, an n800 will work well for you I think :)18:52
johnxKhertan, kismet runs fine on my n800...18:52
Khertani hope as inject level 4 packet isn't possible18:52
unixSnobalthough there are some connections between Australia and the UK18:52
qwerty12Well, I believe it is our Queen that is the Queen there?18:53
Khertanjohnx > yes ... it can scan network ... but channel hopping kill the network, and injecting doesn't work very well18:53
johnxKhertan, it doesn't as long as wlancond isn't running I think18:54
myscjohnx, thanks. cheers18:54
johnxKhertan, It's not a hardware or driver problem I think18:54
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qwerty12More like ( . )( . ) :p18:57
Khertanjohnx> it s a driver problem wich doesn't accept it ... and we can make an other one without specs :)18:57
Khertan s/wich/which18:57
johnxKhertan, I can channel hop with kismet while collecting packets for >1 hour without problems18:58
qwerty12Do we have uinput module on N800?18:58
johnxthis is while booted into Debian...but it's the same driver18:58
Khertanhum? serious ?18:58
johnxKhertan, yeah18:58
Khertanoh ... interesting ...18:59
Khertanso it s not a driver problem ...18:59
johnxI don't think it is18:59
johnxmaybe I was just lucky18:59
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johnxI'd put my money on wlancond though18:59
Khertanme too now18:59
johnxit seems to tweak lots of wifi stuff18:59
johnxI'll try it again right now to make sure I'm not lying to you18:59
Khertanand injecting packet work ?18:59
johnxof course not19:00
Khertanarg :(19:00
johnxthat's just not avaiable in the drivers at all19:00
qwerty12fook, CONFIG_INPUT_UINPUT isn't available in my kernel source too :/19:00
KhertanOok ?19:01
qwerty12s/fook/fuck then :/19:01
infobotqwerty12 meant: fuck then :, CONFIG_INPUT_UINPUT isn't available in my kernel source too :/19:01
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qwerty12infobot, no i didn't but nice try.19:02
KhertanOoook ..?19:02
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* qwerty12 didn't know that google translate does Suomi translation too :/19:03
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KotCzarnyyou wouldn't know if it does it right19:04
KotCzarnyor if it just plays a joke on you19:04
qwerty12Meh, it's the best I can rely on :p19:04
KhertanoOok ? (
KotCzarnyqwerty: you have never read discworld novels?19:05
KotCzarnywhat a pity19:05
qwerty12If my librarian looked like that, i'd throw the books on his face.19:05
qwerty12Don't like them :/19:05
KhertanThe Librarian of Unseen University :)19:05
KotCzarnyread colour of magic19:05
Khertanif u have this one near u let me know19:06
KotCzarnyfirst ones are the best19:06
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KhertanMen at Arms is a good one too19:07
qwerty12I'll er, take your words for it19:07
myscthe n800 uses standard sdhc size right?19:08
KotCzarnysd and mmc would work too19:08
myscbut over 2gig its sdhc, right?19:08
KotCzarnynot necessarily19:08
Khertanbut i ve never see mmchc ...19:08
Khertan4go can be sd ...19:08
Khertanand not sdhc19:09
myscdoes it come with any already installed like the n810?19:09
Khertanyes a 64Mb if i remember well19:09
KotCzarnymine had 128mb sd19:09
qwerty12same here19:09
KotCzarnynever used it19:09
Khertanso 64Mb should be my Nokia Phone19:09
KotCzarnyit's pins are virgin ;)19:09
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Khertanwhat s the link between this : Egyptian mythology, quantum physics, Greek philosophy (including Zeno's paradoxes), United Kingdom driving test[7]19:11
qwerty12They all have letters in those words?19:11
myscthey're all subjects you should _not_ be thinking about whilst driving19:12
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KhertanPyramids (7th tome of the DiscWorld)19:12
qwerty12When I apply for my provisional in the UK, I won't be thinking about DiscWorld ;)19:12
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johnxthat's what you say now...but then it'll just pop into your head19:13
qwerty12Of course, I always have DiscWorld on my mind :/19:14
qwerty12My teacher in my last school tried getting me to read the colours one.19:14
KotCzarnyas i said, the firstest is teh bestest ;)19:15
Khertanjohnx > do u have installed pysqlite ?19:15
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Khertanif you make an import sqlite3 in python ... does modules exists ?19:16
johnxyeah...then I booted into debian to test kismet again :)19:16
Khertan(only relevant if u haven't install sqlite)19:16
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Khertansomeone with an ipython shell can give me the result of : import sqlite319:17
Khertanprint sqlite3.version19:17
Khertanon chinook ?19:17
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Khertan(it seems that sqlite3 is in the python runtime)19:17
Khertan don't work ?19:18
Navigronmayer is broken19:18
qwerty12Am I right in assuming I can safely delete the /usr/include folder off my tablet?19:19
myscjohn, you can boot into vanilla debian on you n800?19:19
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johnxmysc, it's a little less than vanilla19:19
johnxthere's a hint of almond19:19
johnxbut yes19:20
qwerty12with chocolate. HOW COULD YOU FORGET THE CHOCOLATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!19:20
myscany url?19:20
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KotCzarnyvanilla chocolate?19:21
myscsweet. any benefits to it?19:21
myscaside from a broken openssl :)19:21
johnxuhm, your choice of 10,000 packages ready to install?19:21
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myscthere are arm-compiled packages already sitting there?19:22
KotCzarnydependency hell fun?19:22
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Navimysc, yeah19:23
johnxKotCzarny, hmm?19:23
Navidebian's autobuilder took care of that19:23
johnxmysc, hit and search for your favorites. Select "armel" distribution19:23
NaviThey have packages like Warsow on there too19:23
myschey, can you plot the debian in a card and have a dual-boot kind of setup?19:23
johnxthat's the only way to do it at present19:23
Naviit's much too big to not do it anyways19:24
johnxyou just install fanoush's bootmenu and then untar a starter tarball onto an SD card19:24
myscwhat about things like the virtual kb, etc?19:24
johnxthere's a different one19:24
Navimatchbox-keyboard is preinstalled19:24
johnxit's not as nice19:24
myschrmmm, this is pretty neat. so you keep os2008 on your flash and you nuked debian onto a card?19:25
johnxjust reboot and select from the bootmenu19:26
johnxor you can keep debian on the card and chroot into it from os2008 if you want19:26
* KotCzarny has os2008 on a flash and os2008 on a sd card19:26
myscsweet. and then when ubuntu comes out you can nuke another card and hotswap os's19:26
KotCzarnyjohnx: kexec ?:)19:26
myscor coldswap i guess...19:26
johnxKotCzarny, you could if you want19:26
KotCzarnyjohnx: why?19:26
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qwerty12Does kexec work?19:27
johnxKotCzarny, you're asking me why you want to do something?19:27
KotCzarnysorry, it's late19:27
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johnxmysc, I still don't see the point in ubuntu though...19:27
myschrmm, this is a different concept of chroot jails than i'm used to, can you expand?19:27
johnxwell it's like a chroot jail except there's a whole system in there and you can run whatever you want19:28
myscbut with the os2008 overhead?19:28
unixSnobWhy would chmod fail to work, yet not show any errors?19:28
myscthat sounds a lot less efficient than booting directly off the card19:29
unixSnobI ran chmod both as root and as a user, and it did not change the permissions19:29
johnxmysc, I don't really chroot into debian from os2008...but some people seem to love it for some reason19:29
qwerty12unixSnob, Welcome to the feeling :(. My ~ is still messed up.19:29
myscwhat size card do you recommend john?19:29
GeneralAntillesunixSnob, FAT?19:29
myscwould you get 4gb int and 4gb ext?19:30
unixSnobI think it is fat.. guess that would explain it19:30
* qwerty12 has 8gb internal and 1gb external19:30
unixSnobhmm, on second thought, I'm uncertain19:30
GeneralAntillesmysc, 8gb is the sweet spot right now.19:30
johnxmysc, yeah, I'd probably choose two 4GB over one 8GB19:30
unixSnobMy windows box read the SD card, but then I also have ext2fs installed on the windows box19:30
Khertanso .... go ... see u later19:31
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KotCzarnyone big card is better future wise19:31
mysccan a debian install (with X and programming stuff) fir on 4gb these days?19:31
Navimysc, yes :P19:31
Navi4GB is a lot of space19:31
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myscNavi, you have a to ask, these newbie linux distribs install like 6GB off thebat19:31
KotCzarnymaemo-mapper 1.7gb, cloned os 0.5-1gb19:31
johnxmysc, mine is still around 1GB19:32
NaviPfft, fook dat sheet19:32
KotCzarnysome mp3 0.1-500gb19:32
myscjohn, with X and standard bells & whistles?19:33
johnxwith a nice comfie xfce desktop and a browser19:33
johnxit's closer to 1.5GB now that I've been playing around though19:34
johnxv2 had some issues with ARM19:34
johnxv3 has yet to be compiled by the debian guys for ARM19:35
johnxI think19:35
myscso what browser do you use?19:35
unixSnobhow does one find out what filesystem has been mounted?19:35
myscok. did you upgrade your libssl?19:35
johnxon unix?19:35
johnxmysc, of course O_o19:35
myscyeah, mount19:35
johnxthe one in the tarball might be old still19:35
NaviI've got 150MB left on my 1GB card19:35
myscthe 5/14/08 tarball?19:36
myscbut then you just upgrade off the bat, right?19:36
myscok, no problem, i'll just not generate any keys or ssh anywhere until i upgrade19:36 can add a warning to the wiki if you feel like it too :)19:37
myscnow i have to learn debians package management...slackware monkey here  :)19:37
johnxapt is nice and friendly, I promise19:37
wndmost of the time19:37
myscyes, i've heard great things about apt.19:37
unixSnobthanks johnx and GeneralAntilles... I have vfat, which must be why I can't change permissions19:38
johnxactually making your own .debs is kind of a pain19:38
myscit's always been wget; tar -xzvf; ./configure; make for me though19:38
myschope the learning curve isn't too steep19:38
johnxI prefer to let something else handle my dependencies19:38
KotCzarnyin slackware it's a make install && makepkg19:38
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johnxand building things from scratch on ARM would be a ridiculous waste of time if someone else has already done it for you19:39
gpdcan anyone confirm that using BT to a phone with HSDPA and tethering the N800 is classified as 'using the phone as a modem' - therefore causing O2 to charge me 3 GBP per Mb rather than Free if on the phone directly?19:39
Navibleh, I can't stand APT19:39
simbossayone there for a stupid question on pymamemo + urllib2 ? :-)19:39
Naviaptitude makes it a bit more bearable19:39
KotCzarnygpd: that's a question for a local lawyer19:40
* qwerty12 uses apt-get and dpkg only :/19:40
myscjohnx, i'll be playing with making my debian card later one. so help along the way would be much appreciated.19:40
mysclater on19:40
johnxuhm sure, but it's pretty simple to get started :) just tar jxvf foo.tar.bz219:41
gpdI can't get a straight answer from o2 - hoped someone here does it.19:41
johnxgpd, that sounds a lot like "using the phone as a modem"19:41
qwerty12Same here, but I'm on Orange UK so I'm not really sure about 02 - UK.19:41
johnxI would say O2 could claim that's what you are doing and it would be difficult to argue19:42
myschow do you get the tarball onto the card in the first place?19:42
gpda while ago someone mentioned that thetherining to HSDPA goes under the radar somehow... ie not a modem - but a direct link? feasible - or nonsense?19:42
johnxyou it19:42
johnxor use a card reader on your PC19:42
johnxgpd, you want to know whether they'll catch you or not? :P19:43
myscno card reader :(19:43
gpdjohnx: :)19:43
johnxmysc, just plug the n800 into your desktop with usb. instant card reader :)19:43
myscand from slack ima just mkfs?19:44
johnxor do it on the tablet itself19:44
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mysci need to make sure i get the device names right, don't wanna fry my flash19:44
KotCzarnyjust check the sizes19:45
qwerty12Flash would be /19:45
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johnxyou can't access flash through USB19:45
KotCzarnywith df or cfdisk19:45
johnxor the NAND where the OS lives19:45
infobotjohnx meant:  the NAND where the OS lives19:45
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myscOK. i presume you put the debian on the ext card?19:45
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johnxor the int card19:48
myscima psyched now. gonna go get my 800. bbl.19:48
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myscgreat chat, will report tonight hopefully with xfce on board.19:48
johnxsounds good19:49
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Blasturhey! anyone know where i can find a working list of package repositories? seems to be malfunctioning19:52
GAN800Extras is the only important one.19:53
GAN800The rest of them you can pretty much go without.19:53
GAN800At least until gronmayer is back.19:53
Blasturid like a repo with aircrack-ng in it19:54
Blasturanyone know one?19:54
qwerty12I think mulliners has it19:54
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Blasturah, great19:55
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qwerty12Has one click install for OS2008 :)19:55
qwerty12Yeah, just checked, chinook aircrack-ng is there.19:56
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johnxhmm...running kismet shows I should switch my WLAN to a different channel...19:57
Blasturbtw, is it possible to tunnel all traffic through a socks server?19:58
Blasturlike i can setup a "global" http-proxy, is it possible to do the same with socks?19:58
mysccan i rm -rf ./mozilla (to remove all my cache)?19:58
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qwerty12You can do but you can also do it from the browser itself.19:59
KotCzarnysocks trafficking? O.o19:59
qwerty12mysc, Menu > Tools > Clear > Cache20:00
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myscfound it :)20:00
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myschow do you clear the xterm history? "history -c" doesn't work20:02
qwerty12rm the .ash_historyfile?20:02
myscyep!, okay tablet is clear.20:03
qwerty12Don't worry, I won't tell about the pr0n you were wgetting :p20:04
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Blasturhmm, what is the root password of my n810?20:11
Blasturor how do i become super user?20:12
johnxkhertan_, I've been running kismet for 30 minutes now and collected 25,000 packets. How long does it usually take to have the channell hopping die?20:12
qwerty12Blastur, www.nitapps.com20:12
johnxBlastur, go to and install easyroot or install openssh server and ssh in or use flasher to put your tablet into rd mode20:12
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qwerty12My user name is on a word list. Should I be proud?20:17
KotCzarnyif it's not a blacklist or hitlist..20:19
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qwerty12If it's hitlist, goodbye all. I guess Nokia would want to kill me with the Diablo stuff :p20:20
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johnxkhertan_, hmm...actually something is definitely a little bit off with kismet. It's really showing me a lot of random networks, including misnamed versions of my own AP20:22
johnxwhat kind of problems should I be looking for?20:22
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Blasturwhere did you find kismet, johnx ?20:26
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johnxI'm using the one from debian20:26
Blasturnot on n810?20:27
johnxon n80020:27
Blasturwhich repository url is that?20:27
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johnxmy n800 is running debian20:27
johnxso it's unstable main20:28
Blasturoh.. okay. is it really stable yet? or are you developing?20:28
johnxkismet or debian?20:28
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Blasturdebian on n81020:28
Blasturi read that it has no sound and that power management isnt perfected yet20:28
johnxsound works20:29
johnxpower management still needs more work20:29
johnxI'm not going to put much more work into it for a if you're waiting for it to be perfect it might be a long wait...20:29
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kulvejohnx: what have you done for it? Where are the patches? :)20:30
johnxI've copied a whole bunch of stuff from os2008 to make sound work. and put together a tarball out of stuff other people have made20:31
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kulveso, you haven't patched any sources and compiled the whole thing?20:32
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johnxI've compiled maybe one package20:32
Blasturim quite happy with os200820:33
johnxtablet-utils from's bzr repo20:33
johnxso am I :)20:33
johnxI still use it everyday20:33
Blasturbtw, does gps work on debian johnx ? and if so, is it better Time to fix?20:33
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johnxaaah...gps on the n81020:34
johnxnow that is a good question20:34
johnxI don't have an n810 so I haven't done any work on that20:34
Blasturoh ok. n800 doesnt have gps or?20:34
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johnxaccepting n810 donations in return for support :P20:35
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Blasturhehe, ill remember than when i get fed up with mine johnx20:38
Blasturdidn't someone mention a Openstreetmap program for N810?20:38
Blasturi cant find it on maemo.org20:38
johnxmaemomapper? roadmap? navit?20:38
Blasturi'd like to edit the maps.. maemo mapper only seems to provide read-only access20:39
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SaviqBlastur: edit maps?20:39
glassfor fixing them i suppose20:40
t_s_owell its official, nokia wants nothing to do with my wsod 770. sadly it brught it via expansys, as they where selling of some leftover us ones in europe...20:40
Blasturopenstreetmap is an ongoing effort, i have added pretty much all roads in my town20:40
Blasturit'd be really good if i could walk around adding stuff like parking spaces and pubs in "real time"20:40
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Blasturotherwise its so much work to do when you get home and unload the gps traces20:41
glasssurely some of the apps has points of interest adding?20:41
Blasturyeah, but this is not POIs, this is openstreetmap tags20:41
Blasturso i need something like JOSM (
Blasturbut java is not available, right?20:41
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glassdunno how java on maemo has progressed20:45
glassthere was some effort for it tho20:45
glassthat would be probably too heaby20:45
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johnxkhertan_, ok...It looks like after 1 hour 16 minutes it's stopped seeing new packets this time :/21:07
johnxsorry if I got your hopes up21:07
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Blasturim trying to bounce traffic via my n810, so i set /proc/sys/ipv4/forward = 1 on my N810, and then on my workstation, i set the IP of my n810 as gateway. It seems to work, but as soon as the n810 detects that the workstation has a better (direct) path to the real router, it sends ICMP redirect messages21:18
Blasturhow can I prevent this and make sure all traffic goes through the n810, even though its not the optimal path21:19
AStormdisable redirects :>21:19
AStormalso in /proc/sys/ipv421:19
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Blasturi did .. /proc/sys/net/ipv4/conf/all/send_redirects = 021:24
Blasturhowever, it still sends them according to wireshark21:24
AStormthat's not it21:25
AStormwrong option21:25
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Blasturwhich one is it then?21:27
AStormthat, and secure_redirects21:29
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Blasturstill sending them :(21:31
Blasturdo i need to reload something after changing these?21:31
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m-cyou maemo devs seen the iphone?21:38
m-cI just got shown a bunch of features this weekend21:39
m-cthe virtual keyboard has some really nice UI features:21:39
m-c1) keys expand above the cursor so you can see what you are hitting21:39
m-c2) the key will not depress until you RELEASE the cursor21:39
johnxI think most people here have used an ipod touch/iphone at some point...21:40
m-cright away, wondered whether there were people bringing this to the NIT21:40
m-cjohnx: you would think so, but I could not see how someone could use that virtual keyboard and not want to put those features into a NIT right away21:41
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johnxre: 2) That's the same behavior on the tablet21:42
johnxAlso, there's nothing stopping someone from making a hildon input method that has features like that21:42
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m-cwhat is that software called that does the virtual keyboard on the NIT?21:44
qwerty12_N800apt-get source hildon-input-method21:45
m-cqwerty12_N800: thank you21:45
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m-cNokia_Support:  Please hire Edge from that youtube video straight-away.  All the best.21:45
m-cinz: Yes, that is exactly what I mean21:46
AStormjohnx: not exactly the same21:46
m-cinz: do you have any other insight into that demo ?21:46
AStormNokia has autorepeat21:46
AStormwhich sucks21:46
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johnxAStorm, actually I was just playing with it and realized there was a "gesture" for "space"21:47
m-cI see there is more information in the youtube comments21:47
m-c... because, the NIT virtual keyboard... it's not good, at least compared to the iPhone virtual keyboard21:48
m-cin terms of usability21:48
johnxI prefer it to the iphone keyboard, but everyone has an opinion21:49
roopethe iPhone one is predictive, the tablet one is not. It's a quite big difference.21:49
m-cI see iPhone people tapping out messages quickly, and I see NIT people buying bluetooth keyboards21:49
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johnxI can type pretty quickly on the onscreen keyboard actually21:49
unixSnobNavi, are you around?21:49
* unixSnob wonders if navi is south african21:49
m-cand the limitation just seems to be the two UI things I mentioned21:49
AStormroope: that's optional in iPhone21:50
AStormm-c: that's because of use case21:50
AStormNIT is a PC21:50
AStormiPhone is a phone21:50
johnxm-c, the "zoom" thing is probably difficult to do without dedicated 3D21:50
m-cif the NIT had "click on release"21:50
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AStormjohnx: it's actually simple, heh21:50
m-cat least on the keyboard, it would be a lot more helpful21:51
AStormm-c: hmm, not as nice as you think21:51
johnxAStorm, aaah...I wasn't remembering the effect properly21:51
johnx(also, iphone users don't use bt keyboards because they *can't*)21:51
m-cI am not someone who thinks all things apple should be on linux, but when you see a UI design that works really well, then I think it should get incorporated21:51
acydlordi preferred the NIT virtual keyboard21:52
AStormwell, actually we're missing source code to some of the components21:52
acydlordit's annoying when a predictive input keyboard shrinks the letter you want to type21:52
johnxm-c, well filing an enhancement request with Nokia on would be a good place to start21:52
AStormdo we have code for handwriting recognition? hildon-input-method? virtual keyboard?21:52
johnxor coding up a demo in python21:52
AStormor both :>21:52
johnxAStorm, the actual keyboard itself? I think not, sadly :/21:52
m-cAStorm: the youtube video shows that someone has the code available for just what I was saying was needed, about a year ago:
AStorm~lart Nokia and their lawyers21:53
* infobot sends a legion of lawyers after Nokia and their lawyers's head21:53
roopeBut then again, people prefer anecdotal stuff more.21:53
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AStorminfobot: lol21:53
infobotfrom memory, lol is stands for Laughing Out Loud. It is grammatically incorrect to use LOL in the first person; use 'heh' or 'haha' instead. If you want to use LOL, do '/me lol' instead.21:53
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AStormwhat a pointless bot21:54
johnxm-c, but it was never plugged into the actual input method if I recall21:54
AStormwell, plugging it in (hackish) is simple21:54
AStormyou just need to set a certain tag on the window21:54
AStormand it will be nicely swallowed, hidden and shown when needed21:54
johnxah, interesting21:55
AStormhildon-im just sends proper X events21:56
AStormits window isn't focused (that'd break stuff)21:57 that's actually a lot more reasonable than I thought!21:57
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johnxm-c, well, I nominate you to develop a demo to get other people interested21:58
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m-croope: interesting link, thx21:58
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roopeBut there is of course a difference between what it _feels_ like to use and what the actual average input speed is.21:59
roopesubjective feelings are of course important also.21:59
m-cjohnx: like I said, I am only interested in what people were thinking about it.  I do not know how someone could have seen it and not said, "yeah, the NIT needs it"21:59
m-croope: my perspective is just watching three different people using iphones at a conference, and hearing the rapid "pop, pop, pop, pop" of their finger typing22:00
johnxI actually like the fullscreen keyboard quite a bit, and I have had a chance to try an ipod touch22:00
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roopem-c: In best cases it works very well, yes. Once people learn and start to trust it, and don't write anything that strange, especially in English.22:01
AStormother languages *will* have problems22:01
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m-cI have no doubt QWERTY typing is faster22:01
AStormbtw, NIT has predictive text for handwriting recognition22:01
m-cbut I would not mind seeing a comparison of NIT finger typing and iPhone typing22:01
AStormso it shouldn't be too hard for Nokia to add it to the keyboard22:01
* qwerty12_N800 has no doubt too ;)22:02
AStormm-c: anyway, N810 has a hardware keyboard22:02
johnxit's also has some prediction with the keyboards...22:02
roopeastorm: No, there's no predictive text.22:02
AStormroope: there are dictionary suggestions22:02
AStormso, predictive text22:02
roope:) Well, but not in the capacity you would need for a iphone style keyboard.22:02
AStormenough :>22:03
johnxbut the iphone keyboard is more "corrective" than predictive22:03
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roopeThat thing that Gustavo did is nice but a very superficial copy of it, there's no intelligence behind it.22:04
johnxand thus we circle back to the original video...22:04
roopeThe speed doesn't really come from type on release.22:04
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AStormjohnx: well, that's easy to do22:04
m-cspeed comparison >>>
AStormn95 is smaller ;P22:05
AStormcompare n810 please22:05
AStormor n80022:05
m-cthey do22:05
AStormn810 hardware keyboard still wins ;P22:05
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johnxlooks like the n800 wins :P22:06
AStormm-c: as you see, N800 won22:06
AStormand they can't use n810 hardware keyboard properly ;P22:06
AStormmaybe too big thumbs22:06
m-cwell, it is one study, but I am willing to admit I am wrong22:07
m-c*it is just one study22:07
acydlordi started typng on my n810 a lot faster after i got my centro22:07
t_s_ohmm, is that os07? i seem to get way to many wayward presses on my N800...22:07
acydlordas the centro has the smallest qwerty keyboard i have ever seen22:07
m-cI would be happily surprised if my n800 has the fastest input method22:08
AStormacydlord: you see, I also got practice22:08
AStormand that guy probably didn't have any22:08
johnxeven if it's not the fastest it's still perfectly reasonable22:08
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roopem-c: Basically. Um. If you want a fast input method, you need a hardware keyboard.22:08
qwerty12_N800Has anyone tried quikscript (something like that)?22:08
t_s_obtw, is there supposed to be a keyboard press sound on the N800 fullscreen keyboard?22:08
roopethe iPhone predictive and tablet non-predictive reach about the same speeds.22:08
AStormt_s_o: it's optional afaicr22:08
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AStormyou can turn it on in the options22:08
AStormroope: so tablet predictive could be better still22:09
AStormI wonder how that compares to trained Dasher ;>22:09
AStormthe only problem with it is that it requires full attention22:09
roopeastorm: I ... I don't think that there are studies that would show that predictive input is... would be faster.22:09
m-croope: I want an accurate input method, actually22:09
roopeIt's faster than multitap, but there aren't studies that would show that it's faster than a proper size non-predictive.22:10
AStormm-c: yeah, they should measure error rate22:10
m-cactually, the fullscreen virtual keyboard is pretty good22:10
t_s_oAStorm: i only find the generic touch screen sound. no matter what level i set that keyboad option in "sounds" to i get nothing...22:10
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roopeIt has always two sides: for the times that it corrects user input, it a) user might feel from his muscle memory that he typed wrong anyway and stop to check, b) the "correction" might actually be wrong, c) the user needs to stop and see that the prediction agrees with the user.22:11
m-cdunno - I should think about it a bit more - look up some other studies online.  Just wanted to get people's opinions here.  thanks for your insights22:11
roopeThese extra steps eat away the gains of a predictive system.22:11
AStormt_s_o: that's for the full screen keyboard22:11
m-croope: interesting22:11
AStormroope: yes22:11
AStormDasher has nifty error correction mode22:11
roope(as a sidenote, I wrote my master's thesis on text input... And well, I actually designed the NIT virtual input methods, so...)22:11
AStormalthough I could use a "jump to previous letter" key22:12
t_s_oAStorm: and thats what i was looking for. but no matter what i set it to i only get the generic touchscreen sound...22:12
roopeSo I have some opinions on these matters. :)22:12
AStormlike a backspace22:12
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AStormt_s_o: hm22:12
AStormprobably a bug, go notify Nokia22:12
roopeStill, I'm not here to say that they aren't perfect, they certainly aren't.22:12
roope(minus n't)22:12
AStormKotCzarny: could you build new Dasher package for me?22:13
AStormjust for testing22:13
AStormno need for GNOME or speech support22:13
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johnxroope, very cool. I didn't know what was you :)22:13
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roope  my thesis is there, if you're interested. :)22:14
AStormroope: btw, how does chord typing fare?22:14
roopeastorm: Umm, with chord hardware and plenty of time, yes it's quite fast.22:15
AStorm(I know, impossible on N8x0, no multitouch)22:15
roopeChord typing is rather different than multitouch input.22:15
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AStormi know it is22:15
AStormI'd have to check if N8x0 touchscreen (if it supported multitouch) could be used as chord input22:16
roopeThings like that fall into the category of being interesting things that will 'never' really go to a mass market device, unfortunately.22:16
AStormI'd rather have those 3D gloves ;)22:16
roopeChord input on a touch screen would ... be just slower, actually.22:16
roopeSince if you assume that normal input is a quick tap in and out, chord input requires multiple inputs in and out. It cannot be faster, it can be slower.22:17
Veggenhmm. Anyone knows if Sandisk 8GB mini-SDHC works in n810?22:17
AStormVeggen: mini? they have one?22:17
Veggeneh, micro.22:17
AStormah, that one, yes, it does22:17
roopeUnless you assume that you can hold your fingers still with the chord touchscreen version. But you can't really if there are no hard keys.22:18
Veggenok. Almost picked one up on impulse, but he said they didn't have a "no questions asked"-return policy, so I didn't.22:18
AStormreally, have to check how well dasher does with the pen22:18
Veggen(here, you can always return if it's defective, but return because it wasn't the right purpose-device isn't guaranteed by law)22:19
AStormstupid GTK input box insert a tab when you send them tab key event22:19
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AStormor that's just stupid XChat ;P22:19
roopeastorm: Advanced users of Dasher can reach speeds of 15-25 wpm.22:19
AStormit needs a better "back out" mode22:20
roopeYes, the mouse version is faster, I actually quoted the eye version.22:20
AStormpen should be faster than mouse22:20
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roopeWell, not really. The speed is more governed by the mental stuff happening in the mind. :)22:20
roopeYou need to see and think what you're doing.22:21
AStormIt'll lose anyway.22:21
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roopeScan all the options. I've tried to learn Dasher for some time, it's ... exhausting. :)22:21
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AStormNot that much.22:21
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AStormThe trick is keeping constant pace.22:22
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m-cwhat's a good, inexpensive BT keyboard solution?22:23
AStormAnd mobile?22:23
roopeStowaway keyboard is quite nice.22:23
roopeYou don't want a crappy, mobile one. :D22:23
roopethat would kind of ruin the whole point.22:23
johnxroope, did you design the fullscreen keyboard as well?22:24
AStormBut it's expensive.22:24
roopejohnx: yeah.22:24
timelym-c/ johnx: having used the ipod touch on a number of occasions, i hate its keyboard22:24
roopeIt's ... well, it's functional.22:24
m-cI am thinking about an apple bt keyboard -- I do not need an ultra-mobile one22:24
m-ctimely interesting22:25
AStormYeah, it's okay.22:25
m-croope: I keep hearing about the stowaway, and I see a lot of people using htem with the NIT.  where did you buy yours?22:25
roopem-c: I don't actually know. Nokia has a nice system of getting stuff. ;)22:26
roopeIt just arrives.22:26
timelyfwiw, i would like to see an osk keyboard where key sizes varied (among other things)22:26
AStormI wanted to steal one ;)22:26
m-c:)  :)  :)22:26
roopebut out of the ones I've tried the Stowaway is probably the best. It folds quite nicely etc.22:26
timelyAStorm: sadly hildon-im does trigger resizes, and that *does* break stuff22:26
m-cwhat is the model number you like roope?22:26
m-cthey have different stowaways22:27
keesjregister now it is free!22:27
roope  it's the one that looks like this.22:27
roopeI think it's just Stowaway Bluetooth Keyboard, really.22:27
AStormheh, caught a bug22:27
AStormin xfce4-panel version I have22:27
roopeIt was some years ago, i'm not sure if they have newer ones.22:27
johnxIIRC, there is a similar foldable keyboard with 5 rows22:28
hrwroope: did you one of guys who also wrote control-panel for choosing keyboard layout/language?22:28
roopehrw: Umm, well. I'm an interaction designer, so I don't write them. But yes, I've specified some of them.22:28
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roope(just avoiding any possible blame beforehand ;)22:29
hrwroope: please kick that someone's ass from me.22:29
roopehrw: what's the matter there?22:29
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hrwroope: no possibility to add own layout of internal n810 hw keyboard22:29
timelyhrw: are you sure?22:30
timelyit's just software22:30
roopehrw: Well, it's technically not easy to do. And besides, if there are printings on the keys, then umm.22:30
timelyroope: oh give me a break22:30
timelynokia already messed that up22:30
hrwtimely: it is just *closed* software22:30
timelyhrw: i'll black box with you if you need22:30
timelyyou can get a device from one region22:31
timelyand switch the hardware keylayout22:31
hrwroope: technically it is *easy* to do. look at ukeyboard package which do that22:31
timelywhen you do, there are 5 keys which rotate their blue function22:31
hrwtimely: to one of provided ones22:31
timelywhich is just insane22:31
timely=> roope22:31
hrwtimely: I can not add Polish layout to that list22:31
roopehrw: Well, it wasn't really seen as a use case that normal users would do. The effort to build the UI would be rather big.22:31
AStormroope: while you're at it, add an option for user dictionaries too22:32
timelyhrw: hrm, so you want to know how to force the ui to list polish as a selectable layout?22:32
timelygimme a bit to pull up a vpn22:32
roopeDevelopers can create their own ones manually and then put them into the device.22:32
hrwtimely: exactly22:32
AStormI'd love to get that handwriting recognition to recognize Polish chars too :>22:32
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roopeastorm: you can choose a custom dictionary. I think.22:32
hrwroope: maemo team lack lot of use cases22:32
AStormjust needs a minor expansion22:32
roopehrw: I think lacking that use case is a good thing.22:32
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AStorm(like, "add character"22:32
AStormbtw, it balks after you add too many character signatures22:33
hrwroope: I would not agree22:33
AStormI mean, too many custom ones22:33
AStormcan't add any more then22:33
AStormand the error message is not too precise22:33
roopeWith limited resources the question is that do we put designers doing stuff like that or then doing actually something that people need and want and would help sell the devices.22:33
AStormneed to write a bug about that ;P22:33
hrwroope: current maemo i18n situation is deeply broken22:33
roopeAnd I don't think that feature would really sell more devices.22:33
AStormroope: well, bugs != features I hope?22:34
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hrwroope: then open sources of that application so we will be able to provide patches for review22:34
roopeastorm: Well, bugs are a separate issue of cousre.22:34
AStorm(about that epitext or what it's called)22:34
roopehrw: I'm all for open sourcing them.22:34
AStormadding your own chars to be recognized there would be great22:34
timelyhrw: sadly i suspect things aren't open sourced for reasons that are equivalent to them having poor scalability22:34
timelylack of focus / desire22:35
hrwroope: I heard that in 2012 sources of 2005 calculator will be finally open22:35
roopeI couldn't care less about the sources of the calculator app, really.22:35
hrwtimely: look at ukeyboard source - it is very easy to read and expand22:35
hrwtimely: and it do the same thing as maemo closed one22:35
timelyhrw: you don't want me to look at the open source code22:36
timelyif i'm about to look at the closed source code and give you black box hints22:36
hrwtimely: ok22:36
roopeFor the keyboard issue there is not intentional done from preventing people to create new keymaps, there is just no UI in the device for it.22:36
AStorms/in the device/in the applet/22:36
AStormthere's no need for UI to add22:36
timelyhrw: ok, can you give me some string unique to the ui in question?22:36
AStormthere is need for UI to select :>22:36
timelylike the window title or label?22:37
hrwroope: there is no new ui for it22:37
timelyroope: this is stupid22:37
hrwtimely: control panel -> regional & settings22:37
AStormyep, selector is just broken22:37
timelyhrw: pretend i don't have a device handy22:37
roopetimely: could you be a bit more specific?22:37
hrwtimely: moment then22:37
timelycould you be patient?22:37
timelyi'm not a fast typist22:37
timelyall it needs is a way to check a file system directory and list each item from that directory22:37
roopePerhaps you could start with the issue first and then add the opinion, and not the other way round.22:37
timelyit can use the filenames to lookup their localized translations22:37
timelythere's a keyboard layout chooser22:38
timelyit presumably has a hard coded list of entries22:38
timelyand hrw wants to add polish22:38
timelyi'm not sure it's hard coded yet, i'll find out once hrw helps me find the code22:38
roopeYes, it might be hard coded, since all of those names are localized.22:38
hrwtimely: 'keyboard layout' is one message22:38
roopeAnd there is one for each sales region for the device.22:38
AStormroope: I smell misfeature :>22:38
AStormcan't you people just use gettext?22:39
timelyroope: so what?22:39
timelyAStorm: no, we have to do it "better"22:39
timelyyou can switch hardware layouts from the ui22:39
timelyand the result is Blue incompatible w/ the layout22:39
timelywhich means we clearly don't care22:39
AStormbut, we can write new layouts22:40
timelytherefore that is not a valid reason to block accepting a third party layout22:40
timelyas for l10n of the string22:40
timelythat is solvable22:40
AStormyes, it is22:40
AStormjust use gettext properly22:40
AStormand not hardcode names everywhere22:40
timelyAStorm: don't mention gettext22:40
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AStormok, then write your own tiny variant22:40
hrwtimely: or 'Finnish/Swedish/Norwegian/Danish' is other text22:40
timelyhrw: your first string worked22:41
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roopeWell, yes, for that particular issue you might want to put a bug in the bugzilla. Perhaps Richard or Tomas can then comment.22:41
roopeIt's how it's been implemented.22:41
hrwroope: maemo bug #2899 is filled22:41
timelythis seems to come from hildon-input-method-plugins22:41
AStormOk, I finally have to write these two annoying bugs in closed code22:41
hrwpvanhoof: failed22:41
AStormabout epitext22:41
roopehwr: ok, that's good to know.22:41
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khertanHi !22:41
AStormpvanhoof: enter password to continue22:41
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qwerty12_N800Theres ur password ;P22:42
hrwAStorm: do not mention any i18n bugs rather - nokia devs do not even use strftime()22:42
khertanDoes someone can say me if sqlite3 is a default module of python2.5-runtime or does if it s a python2.5 module available in extras ?22:42
AStormhrw: it's not that bad22:42
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AStormI mean, just make an option to add a symbol to epitext22:42
hrwAStorm: really? look at clock applet22:42
AStormcould be really useful22:42
AStormhrw: well, I know ;P22:43
SaviqAStorm: what's wrong with the clock applet?22:43
AStormmaybe even s/symbol/word/22:43
hrwAStorm: on my tablet it should say "Wtorek" not "Tuesday"22:43
johnxkhertan, I believe python2.5-runtime does not depend on any sqlite stuff22:43
Saviqhrw: it does, on mine22:43
AStormSaviq: it can't use i18n'd names22:43
timelyhrw: sorry, reading this code isn't easy22:43
AStormtimely: hack over hack over bandaid? :P22:44
Saviqhrw: mine's 'wtorek\n2008-05-20'22:44
hrwSaviq: but you installed whole Polish translation - right?22:44
hrwSaviq: I do not22:44
AStormthat fakes it, yep22:44
timelyAStorm: i'm not a native gtk speaker22:44
AStormtimely: ah22:44
Saviqah ok22:44
timelythere we go22:44
timelyhow nice22:44
hrwSaviq: normal gtk apps show Wtorek with my Polish regional settings and English language22:44
timelystatic FOOPY barpy[] =22:44
AStorm~lart static arrays of text22:45
* infobot farts in static arrays of text's general direction22:45
Saviqhrw: understood22:45
timelyi hate to ask22:45
AStorminfobot: suck22:45
infobothey, i'm on lunchbreak, screw off22:45
timelydo those fields change their values when you change languages?22:45
timelye.g. switch your language to russian22:45
timelywhat does it say?22:45
timelyif so, tell roope to bugger off wrt localizability :)22:45
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hrwtimely: rotfl!!!22:46
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timelyhrw: well, come on, check ;-)22:46
hrwnow I know why it is closed....22:46
timelyit's too embarassing to release? :)22:46
AStormthey should anyway22:46
AStorma team of cleaners would make it shine22:46
timelyor commit suicide22:47
* AStorm would game22:47
AStormno, why22:47
AStormwe could rewrite the worst parts22:47
khertanjohnx: thx, i ask because i ve two sqlite module in my nit22:47
timelyeach person has a tolerance for bad code22:47
hrwtimely: restarting to Dansk language22:47
johnxkhertan, I got it running with the pysqlite you showed me22:47
AStormso, someone with high tolerance would rewrite it to something better22:47
hrwAStorm: we would replace it with ukeyboard code22:47
timelyhrw: anyway... i think it should be possible for you to write a binary patch22:48
timelyor possibly if you understand gtk well enough some sort of library patch22:48
AStormtimely: that is so wrong22:48
timelyAStorm: you don't want to reimplement this whole thing22:48
AStormwe already did22:48
hrwtimely: I can even try to catch my left elbow with left hand22:48
AStormit's called ukeyboard22:48
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timelyit replaces the pref panel in control panel?22:49
hrwtimely: it does22:49
hrwtimely: but it cannot replace pref panel in onscreen keyboard22:49
timelyoh sure it can22:49
hrwbut it does not22:49
* timely goes looking for apis22:49
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AStormbtw, is the variant of matchbox used in Maemo OSS?22:51
AStormbecause, it crashes on me for some reason, I want to debug that22:52
AStormdebug build exists?22:52
timelyyou need that deb installed to use the previous url22:52
timelyum... doubtful22:53
timelybut you can rebuild it yourself22:53
AStormyes, I can22:53
AStormI mean, I will be able to in a few days22:53
AStormfinally some "free" time22:53
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m-chmm - trying to contact someone on Voice over IP using Google Talk, but Command Center will only let me chat with them22:57
timelystruct _private2 { GTypeInterface base_iface; GtkWidget *(*meth1) ( _private1*, _private3, GtkSizeGroup *, gint*); void (*meth2)( _private1*, const gchar*, GType, gpointer); void (*meth3) (_private1*, _private3); void (*meth4) (_private1*); void (*meth5) (_private1*, _private4*); }22:57
AStormhopefully these aren't real names :-)22:57
m-cI wonder if I have something misconfigured, or if the Google Talk interface only allows chat and not SIP22:57
AStormw/o access to the headers we can't use that API22:57
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hrwI love api with lot of "private" names22:58
summatusmentism-c: I don't believe it supports sip?22:58
timelyi'm not sure i'm allowed to disclose such things22:58
hrwexecPrivate13() in AmigaOS was nice22:58
timelyso what i'm providing is merely an ABI22:58
AStormexecPrivateRyan ;P22:58
hrwtimely: can we summary it?22:58
AStormtimely: which will be broken in the next version?22:58
AStormthat's heart-warming22:58
timelyAStorm: um... lemme check :)22:58
AStormNokia could at least provide headers for the darned binary stuff22:59
hrwtimely: os2008 control panel for selecting keyboards use hardcoded lists of entries without any possibility to add new entries. It is also written so ugly that no one want to show its code to outside people (probably to not increase amount of people who died laughing).23:00
AStormbtw, is there a version of mencoder for NIT? (could be nice for MJPEG and screencaps)23:00
timelywell, os 2007 didn't have the same api afaict :)23:00
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summatusmentism-c: I stand corrected23:00
hrwtimely: os2007 use gtk 2.6 so it is normal that gtk related api changed23:00
m-csummatusmentis: perhaps you were saying Command Center does not support voice with Google Talk ?  But, regardless, Google Talk does support voice23:00
timelyhrw: this is just the api that opens the settings dialog and friends :)23:00
summatusmentism-c: no, I was confused. I don't have an NIT yet23:01
m-csummatusmentis: oh, you are in for a treat when you get one  :)23:01
AStormtimely: yet they couldn't make it public for some reason or another? doh!23:01
hrwAStorm: we have to get used to it23:01
AStormand they couldn't use dbus to launch it either...23:01
hrwAStorm: nokia just prefer to ignore people from 'we-do-not-like-you' countries23:01
m-canyone here done a voice chat using google talk with their NIT ?23:02
summatusmentism-c: I'm hoping so. I'm hoping it's all it's cracked up to be23:02
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* AStorm stabs randomly around23:02
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m-csummatusmentis: it has some getting used to - it is obviously not a laptop interface, but it is a true pocket pc23:02
summatusmentism-c: well, I'm used to GPE on a Zaurus23:02
summatusmentisbut my Z is big, and I wish it had better wifi range, hence, the NIT23:03
timelyafaict in gagarin this stuff was just a "standard" maemo "thing"23:03
hrwtimely: gagarin was 3-4 years ago23:04
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timelyhrw: thankfully gagarin is not 100% private as black words go :)23:04
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AStormhrw: where can I grab maemopad+ source code?23:07
m-cI see - it is an Google Talk account thing - needs to authorize communication access  :) :)23:07
hrwAStorm: garage?23:07
AStormHave to fix major screwups in db handling and add resizable canvas support23:07
AStormand maybe real export23:08
hrwtimely: thx for help and answering questions.23:08
hrwalso for providing some fun about maemo code23:08
summatusmentiswhat browser does maemo use?(default)23:08
timelymicrob / mozilla based browser for maemo ...23:08
AStormThe requested URL /garage/source/maemopadplus/ was not found on this server.23:09
hrwsummatusmentis: it is based on firefox 3.0-alpha code23:09
timelyAStorm: you need to install that deb23:09
summatusmentishrw: oh, cool :)23:09
AStormuhm, tried a brower....23:09
timelyotherwise urls look like that ^23:09
timelyAStorm: the deb adds a /etc/hosts line for mxr.maemo.org23:09
hrw66.33.212.254 mxr.maemo.org23:10
timelythe deb is open source ;)23:10
hrwhaving deb package for such change is overload of packaging ;)23:10
timelyhrw: it means you can uninstall it !23:10
timelyand it was fun to write :)23:10
timelyand it's reusable code, i have 2 debs that do the same thing :)23:11
AStormtimeless: wth? there's almost no code in it...23:11
timelyAStorm: to add a line to /etc/hosts ?23:11
AStormno no23:11
timelyAStorm: i am timeless23:11
AStormas I expected23:12
timelycallbacks.c 117k Nov 21 18:5323:12
AStormit loads the whole database at once23:12
timelyinterface.c 34k Nov 21 18:5323:12
timelysketchwidget.c 46k Nov 21 18:5323:12
* AStorm *stabs*23:12
timelynot exactly tiny23:12
AStormtiny enough23:12
AStormcould use some splitting23:12
AStormcallbacks.c is evil ;P23:13
* timely waits for the xref to finish parsing callbacks23:13
hrwAStorm: svn checkout
timelywell, it might not be sqlite (combined form)23:13
AStorm9 indentation levels in sketchwidget.c ;P23:13
timelybut 4000 lines isn't shabby23:13
AStormthis code needs some love23:14
timelyAStorm: anyway, for quick searches through garage, i hope you find mxr useful23:14
timelysadly i don't update the index very often23:14
AStormtimely: it's great, yes23:14
* timely goes back to hrw23:14
summatusmentishow's the CPU on the N810? full screen video works?23:15
timelyok, first public entrypoint23:15
AStormsummatusmentis: it does, more or less23:15
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AStormmaybe some skipping23:15
johnxsummatusmentis, video up to around 5xx X 3xx works and plays fullscreen23:15
johnx800x480 video isn't going to happen23:15
AStormit depends on the codec and compression level23:15
summatusmentisjohnx: ok, cool23:16
AStormjohnx: no, it does play DVD-class23:16
summatusmentisthanks AStorm, also23:16
hrwsummatusmentis: 400x240 scalled videos plays23:16
timely_private4 hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new(void);23:16
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timelyhrw: you need to export that :)23:16
johnxAStorm, hmm? 720x480?23:16
AStormw/o or with just minor skipping23:16
johnxat 30fps?23:16
AStormmplayer of course23:16
johnxuhm...with magic?23:17
summatusmentishrw: alright, fair enough. Much better than on the Z23:17
hrwtimely: possible without internal maemo headers?23:17
AStormjohnx: no magic23:17
timelyhrw: yes23:17
johnxAStorm, it would have to be skipping frames until it was down to about 20 I would imagine23:17
AStormnot really23:17
timelyhrw: you'll basically get to replace the .so that is the current thing23:17
AStormmight be 25 fps, I'm not sure23:17
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AStormit visibly skips in a few high-speed scenes23:17
AStormbut never <17 or so23:17
timelyhrw: i need to poke eero or someone23:17
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timely_private4* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new(void);23:18
* timely curses people for putting pointers on the wrong side of spaces23:18
timelybe wary of pointers... they're obviously important :)23:18
timelynote to people who might be nosy: these entrypoints could be found by using nm23:18
AStormtimely: well, Nokia could just use dbus some more23:18
timelyAStorm: quiet, i'm working :)23:19
AStormthat's easier to plug into23:19
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timelygboolean hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_load_plugins(_private4*);23:19
timelyGSList* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_get_plugins(_private4*);23:20
AStormok, so who will get me some screencap tool and mencoder for Maemo?23:20
johnxAStorm, I'd believe 24fps with some skipping23:20
AStormjohnx: I can get you a benchmark :>23:20
AStorma nice feature of mplayer23:20
timelyvoid hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_set_internal_value(_private4*, GType, gchar*, gpointer);23:20
AStormalthough the movie is long23:20
johnxAStorm, I don't doubt that mplayer can decode the movie23:20
johnxI doubt that our LCD controller bus can accept the data23:21
timelyvoid hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_unset_internal_value(_private4*, gchar*);23:21
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timelygpointer hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_get_internal_value(_private4*, gchar*, GType *);23:22
AStormjohnx: I'll check the size, I might be wrong :-)23:22
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johnxI don't really care all that much...I just don't want to create false hope for summatusmentis23:23
timelyosso_context_t* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_get_context(_private4*);23:23
hrw HildonIMSettingsPluginManager *hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new (void);23:23
hrw20 22:27 < timely> _private4* hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_new(void);23:23
hrwwhic one is proper one?23:23
AStormjohnx: ok, I fail23:23
timelyvoid hildon_im_settings_plugin_manager_set_context(_private4*, osso_context_t*);23:23
AStormit's 528x27223:23
timelyhrw: eww, did i write that? heh23:23
timelypretend i only ever wrote _private4* :)23:24
hrwtimely: which one is proper one? your or one?23:24
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timelyoh? it's open?23:24
timelythis is why people should use the cross reference23:24
* timely goes to ask the xref to compare them23:25
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timelyi don't think they changed the api since 200823:25
timelythey weren't supposed to have23:26
timelyyou should find that what i wrote is equivalent to what's there, except i tried to replace words i wasn't sure were public w/ "private" and "meth" and friends :)23:26
hrwukeyboard do not use hildon_im_settings api23:26
timelyyou need to implement it23:27
timelybecause that's what the soft keyboard uses to talk to settings23:27
timelyif you implement it, you can replace the stupid settings dialog23:27
hrwheh... I love to reinvent wheel23:27
hrw~curse nOKIA23:27
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, nOKIA !23:27
timelyit could be worse23:27
hrwtimely: really?23:28
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timelythey could have statically linked in the ui :)23:28
hrwtimely: I would prefer to have whole maemo closed then current situation23:28
hrwsituation would be much cleaner then23:28
* timely shrugs23:28
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hrwnow it is like: to get battery info you need closed binary, to change hw keyboard layout you need to rewrite few maemo components from scratch, to do X you need to hack nokia binary, to do Y you need 3rd party util, to do ......23:30
timelyso much more excitement this way23:31
hrwif maemo would be 100% closed (except (l)gpl 3rdparty components) it would be much easier - I would not buy that device at all23:31
timelyit'd be boring otherwise23:31
timelysee, precisely my point :)23:31
hrwtimely: no - I would be able to run own linux system on it23:31
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* timely shrugs23:31
hrwnow I cannot use own linux system because nokia blocks it very badly with closed components like wifi/battery23:32
timelyi don't think you'll find many nokians who actually like the current situation23:32
timelywifi was a hardware choice23:32
timelythey took an available component whose source they couldn't share23:32
timelycan you blame them?23:32
hrwtimely: no, but I can blame them for a way which they go23:33
AStormI can blame them for not working with conexant on a driver :>23:33
timelywould you pay 800EUR for a device just like the n800 but w/ open source drivers for the wifi chip23:33
AStormthe driver it somewhat done23:33
hrwI would like to have umac.fw loaded by opened driver23:33
AStormsomeone ported a bit of prism54 to SPI interface23:33
AStormso, Nokia could hire someone to finish the job23:33
hrwor having umac.o with opensource wrapper23:33
AStormhrw: uhm, that's the current state23:33
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AStormumac.o wrapped by open driver23:34
* timely thought we were very close to that23:34
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hrwAStorm: which does not work with 2.6.2523:34
johnxumac.ko is a separate module23:34
AStormhrw: it only needs hacking23:34
AStormminor too23:34
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hrwumac.ko can be stripped to umac.o but it is hack23:34
AStormthe open part, not the umac23:34
AStormminor and simple hack23:34
hrwumac.fw would be better way anywya23:35
AStormuhm, it can't be done that way23:35
AStormumac is not just firmware23:35
hrwanyway we have it like we have.23:35
AStormit's not uploaded anywhere23:36
timelyhrw: anyway, that file is equivalent to what i have23:36
timelyso yes, just implement that23:36
hrwit can be hacked to be used with non-maemo systems (like Poky or other OE based)23:36
AStormso yes, just port prism54 to SPI23:36
hrwbut lack of battery info suxx23:36
AStormand add support for that chip23:36
timelyoh wait23:36
* timely chuckles23:36
timelyhrw: the settings stuff seems to be open too23:36
timelyso you could just hack it directly...23:37
johnxhrw, there is a way to get battery info by polling retu23:37
timelyor copy what you need23:37
hrwjohnx: with charging?23:37
AStormexactly, there is23:37
AStormhrw: yes, with charging state23:37
AStormRetu has a correct kernel driver :>23:38
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johnxbme needs to do the actual charging, I believe23:38
hrwok - time to back to qemu hacking23:38
johnxbut the info is available23:38
timelyhrw: anyway... in this case... the code you wanted was open23:38
AStormso we're only missing wifi and powervr23:38
AStormand DSP kernel23:39
hrwAStorm: powervr...23:39
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johnxhrw, see "kcbatt" for an example of an app that reads retu-adc and prints battery level23:39
AStormwe're missing minor voltage control stuff, but Menelaus is well documented, so writing a driver is simple23:40
johnxit's also an example of how much free time KotCzarny has O_o23:40
timelyAStorm: i thought nokia was also missing powervr23:41
AStormtimely: no, they have the driver for N95 and up23:41
AStormfor Symbian23:41
timelyyeah, that's helpful23:41
AStormthere is a closed 3D Linux driver23:41
AStormrewrite it to be open+blob and it's good to go23:42
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timely120     g_debug ("Not a HildonIMSettignsPlugin: %s. Skip it.", g_module_error ());23:44
* timely sighs23:44
timelyhigh quality published code23:44
timelyso guys... the code is open, why isn't there a patch to fix the spelling? :)23:44
AStormbecause nobody has checkin rights to that SVN23:44
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timelyfile a bug in w/ a patch23:45
AStormand it's not important enough to post a patch through bugs23:45
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AStormtoo much overhead ;>23:45
* timely has no idea if there's actually a public svn for it23:45
timelyshows that there *is* a public svn23:46
AStormok, maemopad+ is a total mess23:46
AStormI'll better rewrite it in Python.23:46
AStormwill be 15 KB or so ;P23:46
AStorm(of code)23:46
timelyplease browse around :)23:47
timelyit's not perfect, but i think you'll find it can be quite helpful23:47
* timely wonders why's l&f doesn't match
AStormwhy oh why people continue to use plain C for UI apps...23:48
AStormor C++ for that matter23:48
AStormthey're not meant for that23:49
* johnx pokes at sapwood/hildon-desktop on the zaurus...23:49
summatusmentisis hildon the wm?23:49
AStormit's the graphic toolkit23:49
AStorma variant of GTK23:49
johnxsummatusmentis, matchbox is the wm23:49
summatusmentisjohnx: right...23:50
summatusmentisAStorm: oh, ok, thanks23:50
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timelyhrw: /join #hrw23:50
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AStormtimely: well, there's /invite ;)23:51
* Jaffa should probably not have a moan at ppl on maemo-dev when he's feeling ill. Oh well, too late.23:51
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AStormtimely: I suspect there are Python bindings to hildon and that nice sketch widget?23:52
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