IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-05-11

sm00th_trac3r	rafael: if u just need some development tools, not full sdk - u can browse through maemo.org and install them	00:00
rafael	uhmm...	00:00
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rafael	I'm already installed OS 2008 on my device	00:01
rafael	but, I read about this (that have a version only for developers)	00:02
rafael	for this, I make a question	00:02
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zchydem_home	yet another sb2 installation problem.. I have two Kubuntu Hardy 8.04 PCs and when I try to install maemo sdk+ to the second PC the /opt/maemo/tools/arm-2005q3 directory is missing. The first PC everything installs and works fine. Any ideas why that dir could be missing?	00:03
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zchydem_home	I have followed the instructions from: http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/install.html	00:04
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EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: hey, when you upgraded did it uninstall all chinook packages?	00:09
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: I get 366 to upgradeand 800 odd to remove	00:09
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GeneralAntilles	It installed Diablo packages.	00:09
GeneralAntilles	Not Chinook packages.	00:09
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EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: your chinook extra stuff like xournal	00:10
GeneralAntilles	Two biggest failing points are running out of space and network failures to the server.	00:10
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GeneralAntilles	Chinook and Diablo are (mostly) backwards and forwards compatible.	00:10
EruditeHermit	and did you get 800 packages to remove?	00:10
GeneralAntilles	So just add Chinook Extras separately to get all of the chinook packages.	00:10
GeneralAntilles	It was a lot	00:11
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GeneralAntilles	Mostly l10n stuff	00:11
GeneralAntilles	as they moved to per-language packages instead of per-application.	00:11
EruditeHermit	did it remove any apps you'd installed previously from extras? or was it all l10n?	00:11
GeneralAntilles	I did it on a clean install.	00:11
EruditeHermit	oh	00:11
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GeneralAntilles	It choked on my messy install due to a broken powerlaunch install	00:12
GeneralAntilles	messed up symlinks	00:12
EruditeHermit	also how did you get passed /var/cache/apt/archives not having enough space?	00:12
GeneralAntilles	ln -s /media/mmc1/var/cache/apt/archives /var/cache/apt/archives	00:13
GeneralAntilles	Just delete it after your done upgrading	00:13
GeneralAntilles	Also, make sure you delete the audio/video files and documentation stuff	00:13
GeneralAntilles	as that's 40MB right there.	00:13
qwerty12_N800	And remake original archives folder.	00:13
qwerty12_N800	after deleting	00:13
EruditeHermit	yeah	00:13
EruditeHermit	ok	00:13
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qwerty12_N800	ftd is my favourite program on diablo atm	00:14
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: how is the flash plugin on diablo?	00:14
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EruditeHermit	is it faster?	00:14
qwerty12_N800	Haven't tried it	00:14
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qwerty12_N800	Has anyone sent a nitro core dump yet?	00:15
EruditeHermit	Iwish that my backup application worked	00:15
EruditeHermit	it keeps crashing when I try it	00:15
qwerty12_N800	:(	00:15
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qwerty12_N800	A lot more init progs in diablo	00:17
qwerty12_N800	mce.ini file is same to me, just has more colours for n8100	00:18
qwerty12_N800	s/n810	00:18
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GeneralAntilles	No softpoweroff. :<	00:20
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GeneralAntilles	It was fixed Nokia-side back in December, too. :\	00:21
AStorm	heh	00:22
* qwerty12_N800 cant wait til nxt friday		00:24
jdiaz	an alternative to vi for editing files from the xterm in the tablet?	00:24
AStorm	vim?	00:25
AStorm	:P	00:25
forge	^^	00:25
jdiaz	not so similar :-)	00:25
KotCzarny	mcedit	00:25
KotCzarny	:)	00:25
AStorm	nano	00:25
jdiaz	is emacs ported?	00:25
qwerty12_N800	yes	00:25
jdiaz	or other emacs-like?	00:25
AStorm	jdiaz: that'd be mad	00:25
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AStorm	not enough bucky bits	00:25
jdiaz	yes, I'm not interested in the whole emacs, only in its usual keyboard shortcuts	00:25
AStorm	that is, ctrl abuse?	00:26
jdiaz	yes	00:26
AStorm	hehehe	00:26
GeneralAntilles	vi works about perfectly on the N800	00:26
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: vim too	00:26
AStorm	I need to set proper insert mode (with editing)	00:26
jdiaz	yes, it does, but I never get accustomed to vi	00:26
AStorm	and arrows	00:26
AStorm	jdiaz: a good time to start	00:26
jdiaz	always require a cheatsheet at hand	00:27
jdiaz	I'm more emacs inclined	00:27
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GeneralAntilles	just remember i, escape and :wq	00:27
jdiaz	there is a feature of emacs I use almost daily	00:27
GeneralAntilles	That's all you need to get by.	00:27
AStorm	for one his own	00:27
KotCzarny	dd is nice too	00:27
KotCzarny	and x	00:27
qwerty12_N800	sum1 ported emacs search ~itt	00:27
KotCzarny	dd for line del	00:27
jdiaz	GeneralAntilles, sure, but there is also the always neccesary cut-copy-paste	00:27
AStorm	GeneralAntilles: not to mention /	00:28
KotCzarny	and x for char del	00:28
AStorm	#	00:28
AStorm	{, } and.	00:28
jdiaz	I never remember how to copy paste in vim	00:28
AStorm	yep	00:28
GeneralAntilles	We're going simple. ;)	00:28
AStorm	jdiaz: V, Y, P	00:28
qwerty12_N800	I use terminal copy and paste	00:28
AStorm	v for visual mode	00:28
GeneralAntilles	^	00:28
AStorm	yank and paste	00:28
GeneralAntilles	Er, yes, use qwerty's method.	00:28
jdiaz	AStorm, but how do mark the block?	00:28
jdiaz	(how do I mark)	00:29
AStorm	jdiaz: visual mode	00:29
Navi	If you built with mouse support, use the mouse	00:29
AStorm	Navi: don't spoil hi :P	00:29
Navi	:P	00:29
AStorm	*him	00:29
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jdiaz	AStorm: oooh!	00:29
jdiaz	I love visual mode!	00:30
jdiaz	how do I never see it mentioned in the tutoriasl/cheatshets I read until now?	00:30
jdiaz	I read the wrong tutorials, I suppose	00:30
Navi	Nothing better than vimtutor	00:31
jdiaz	Well, this makes vi a lot more usable. I'll give it another try :-)	00:31
jdiaz	It would be ideal if I could perform some column-oriented tasks	00:31
jdiaz	for example, select a rectangular area, and delete it	00:31
jdiaz	(in order to delete a column in a table)	00:31
AStorm	jdiaz: ctrl+v	00:31
AStorm	that's block mode	00:31
AStorm	or was it vb	00:32
AStorm	select in it, then delete :)	00:32
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jdiaz	you are saving my day!	00:32
jdiaz	tanks!	00:32
KotCzarny	in mcedit it's f3, f3, f5	00:32
KotCzarny	:)	00:32
jdiaz	finally, how can I insert a text in front of several lines	00:33
AStorm	and in vi(m) ctrl+v	00:33
jdiaz	(eg: to add a column in a table)	00:33
jdiaz	(or commenting out a region of a program)	00:33
AStorm	jdiaz: .s/^/text/	00:33
AStorm	:s/^/text/	00:33
jdiaz	yes, I knew that one :-)	00:33
AStorm	alt. select an area with visual mode and run that	00:34
jdiaz	but what if the insertion point is not the beginning of the line?	00:34
AStorm	jdiaz: visual mode then, plus s :)	00:34
jdiaz	(ading a separator between two columns, for example)	00:34
AStorm	^ matches beginning of selection line	00:34
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AStorm	nah, I fail	00:35
AStorm	another special char :)	00:35
jdiaz	Hm.. it doesnt work in block mode	00:36
KotCzarny	:)	00:36
jdiaz	^ matches the beginning of the line, not the block	00:37
KotCzarny	probably depends on implementation	00:37
KotCzarny	or /s param	00:37
jdiaz	vi for maemo doesn implement undo	00:38
jdiaz	does vim for maemo implements it?	00:38
KotCzarny	probably	00:38
KotCzarny	because default vi is provided by busybox	00:38
jdiaz	Well...	00:38
* jdiaz is traveling 15 years back in time... learning vi again		00:39
pH5	KotCzarny: wow, I didn't think that offloading mp3 decoding to the dsp would make such a big difference in mplayer. too bad seeking practically doesn't work	00:40
KotCzarny	:)	00:40
KotCzarny	yeah	00:40
KotCzarny	nag ssvb	00:40
KotCzarny	fanoush already included op patch in his kernel	00:40
KotCzarny	so it's possible to disable 330/220 mode	00:41
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Capn_Fish	johnx: What's the latest on the new Debian?	00:41
* pH5 echo 1 > /sys/power/op_dsp		00:42
AStorm	pH5: offloading mp3 will help slightly	00:42
KotCzarny	astorm: more than slightly	00:42
KotCzarny	esd sucks cpu hard	00:42
AStorm	like 7-10%	00:43
jdiaz	AStorm, for inserting a text in front of the block, Ctrl-V, select bloc, press I	00:43
AStorm	esd? this junk needs to die	00:43
KotCzarny	astorm: no viable alternative for now	00:43
jdiaz	btw, vi for maemo doesnt implement v nor ^v	00:43
AStorm	KotCzarny: does it use accel for mixing?	00:43
pH5	AStorm: and even slightly would help a lot if it's just slightly too slow to play at full framerate :)	00:43
pH5	framedrops suck visually	00:43
jdiaz	luckily, vim does	00:43
KotCzarny	astorm: nope	00:43
KotCzarny	it's software	00:43
KotCzarny	(esd)	00:43
AStorm	KotCzarny: give me pulseaudio then	00:44
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AStorm	with speex integer resamler	00:44
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AStorm	*resampler	00:44
KotCzarny	i can give you dsp compiler	00:44
KotCzarny	:)	00:44
qwerty12_N800	AStorm, +1. i like pa.	00:44
AStorm	naah, writing a mixes and not being pais for it...	00:44
AStorm	can't, too much work	00:45
AStorm	:/	00:45
KotCzarny	i think ssvb isn't paid by nokia also	00:45
KotCzarny	:)	00:45
lcuk	KotCzarny, stop being a siren, you know i will be having that dsp compiler soon :P	00:46
KotCzarny	:>	00:46
AStorm	it'd be fun to write libmad using dsp	00:46
KotCzarny	astorm: it's a c compiler	00:46
AStorm	KotCzarny: oh really?	00:46
KotCzarny	and lardman wrote some g711 codec for it	00:46
AStorm	do I have to know somethoing more?	00:46
pH5	did anybody here try the dsp-flac codec?	00:47
KotCzarny	i don't know, ask lardman	00:47
KotCzarny	he is the dsp man here	00:47
KotCzarny	:)	00:47
AStorm	pH5: not yet?	00:47
Capn_Fish	johnx: You here?	00:47
AStorm	dsp vorbis would be fun too	00:47
KotCzarny	but	00:47
AStorm	if dsp has enough power	00:47
KotCzarny	before you go all dandy handy	00:47
KotCzarny	there is a problem with gst and mplayer	00:47
KotCzarny	that needs to be addressed first :/	00:48
AStorm	drop gst	00:48
AStorm	use pulse support of mplayer	00:48
AStorm	or esd compat	00:48
jdiaz	how mature is ruby for maemo?	00:48
AStorm	jdiaz: moderately	00:48
jdiaz	at least is it actively developed?	00:49
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AStorm	dunno, most likely yes	00:49
jdiaz	I was just switching from python to ruby in my desktop, when I purchased the n810...	00:49
jdiaz	so I guess I still have to do python for a while	00:50
* qwerty12_N800 wants to see diablo for sbox :p. newer apt in diablo means I can try synaptic again...		00:50
AStorm	heh, why have you switched to "an inferior language"? ;)	00:50
KotCzarny	because he want to go RoR ?	00:51
KotCzarny	:)	00:51
KotCzarny	*wants	00:51
AStorm	django baby?	00:51
jdiaz	I find easier to express myself in ruby than in python. It is more consistent	00:51
GeneralAntilles	jdiaz, alterego is the guy who ported it.	00:51
KotCzarny	i like c	00:51
KotCzarny	and php	00:51
KotCzarny	:)	00:51
AStorm	no, it's not :)	00:51
AStorm	KotCzarny: weak typing is the spawn of satan!	00:52
GeneralAntilles	He normally haunts around here, but I haven't seen him on in a couple months.	00:52
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KotCzarny	pfft	00:52
KotCzarny	but i like it more	00:52
GeneralAntilles	Punch the keys for gods sake!	00:52
KotCzarny	than writing 10 functions to do nearly the same	00:52
KotCzarny	:)	00:52
jdiaz	before ruby, python, perl and php, I abused a lot of awk :-)	00:52
elb	AStorm: sure it is	00:53
AStorm	jdiaz: do you *reallyc know the, or just tried?	00:53
elb	all this ruby bigotry ;-)	00:53
AStorm	elb: elaborate	00:53
AStorm	ah	00:53
elb	do you know ruby?	00:53
AStorm	KotCzarny: 10 functions? lol	00:53
jdiaz	AStorm, I did not develop any big project in ruby, only daily scripting use. But the same applies to my python habits. And I do prefer ruby	00:54
AStorm	elb: no, I don't	00:54
elb	but you're claiming it's not more consistent than Python?	00:54
elb	interesting :-P	00:54
AStorm	yes, I am :P	00:54
elb	python has some real inconsistencies that ruby doesn't	00:54
jdiaz	sorry having spawned a religion war	00:54
KotCzarny	it's ok	00:54
KotCzarny	:)	00:54
elb	e.g. magic function names, operators which are "overloaded" but can't be re-overloaded, etc.	00:55
AStorm	it's because python is consistent	00:55
elb	ruby is almost entirely lacking in such things	00:55
elb	it has its own brain damages, don't get me wrong	00:55
AStorm	elb: hmm? magic is well-defined	00:55
elb	like closures are over references :-P	00:55
AStorm	which operators are overloaded?	00:55
elb	they're well-defined, yes ... but not consistent	00:55
jdiaz	AStorm, for example I always find my self writing some_string.length in python	00:55
AStorm	elb: they are	00:55
elb	[]	00:55
elb	all right, I think you're just bigoted, i shouldn't have started	00:55
AStorm	__x - magic name	00:55
elb	learn ruby, then we can talk	00:55
AStorm	__x__ - system name	00:56
elb	right, I understand that their naming is consistent	00:56
elb	but their existence is not	00:56
AStorm	you want operator+ likein C? :P	00:56
AStorm	or def +(a)?	00:56
AStorm	:P	00:56
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: hey, did it remove busybox and replace it with bash?	00:56
elb	no	00:56
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, no	00:57
elb	but [] is magic syntactic sugar in python which is inconsistent	00:57
qwerty12_N800	You can get bash and coreutils though.	00:57
elb	I'm not saying python is bad, but you really can't claim it's 100% consistent without ignoring some important details	00:57
Fatal	elb: list comprehensions?	00:57
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: it says it wants to remove busybox	00:57
KotCzarny	:>	00:57
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jdiaz	I always forget the syntax for getting a string length in python... After failing with some_string.length, I try some_string.len, and then len(some_string).... Even now I don't remember the exact syntax	00:57
AStorm	elb: you mean slicing	00:57
jdiaz	that kind of things does not happen to me with ruby	00:58
AStorm	it's consistent in Python 3 now	00:58
AStorm	:)	00:58
jdiaz	this is why I said it is more consistent	00:58
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, That's odd, although i didn't really look at pkgs to remove	00:58
elb	also, the existence of native data types which cannot have methods is inconsistent	00:58
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: and sysvinit	00:58
AStorm	jdiaz: last one is correct	00:58
AStorm	although it could've been a property	00:58
elb	oh, and yeah, the stupid external functions to modify some built-in data taypes	00:58
elb	another great inconsistency of python	00:58
AStorm	elb: now they can, since py 2.6	00:58
jdiaz	really? I thought that the correct one was length(some_string)	00:58
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, That's not right afaik. let me see if busybox pkg is present on diablo	00:58
jdiaz	I'm serius	00:59
jdiaz	(serious)	00:59
Capn_Fish	johnx: If you get this, I'll catch you later	00:59
jdiaz	see what I mean? :-)	00:59
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elb	anyway, AStorm, you might think about choking back your ruby bigotry until you know something about it ;-)	00:59
AStorm	hehee	00:59
elb	it certainly does have some annoying deficiencies, but you might as well know what they are before you start blindly plugging python	00:59
elb	(like ... closures over names, not values? hello?)	01:00
AStorm	the only thing I hate in both is broken threading	01:00
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, not right. busybox and sysvinit are present on diablo. disable all other repos.	01:00
AStorm	when I need threads, I want them working correctly	01:00
AStorm	jdiaz:	01:00
AStorm	>>> len("abc")	01:00
AStorm	3	01:00
elb	"abc".length => 3	01:01
elb	[1, 2, 3].length => 3	01:01
AStorm	yes	01:01
AStorm	same here, but with a function for some reason	01:01
elb	{:a => 1, :b => 2, :c => 3}.length => 3	01:01
AStorm	etc.	01:01
jdiaz	sorry AStorm, I did not mean that you were reacalling it wrong. I meant I was recalling it wrong.	01:01
AStorm	elb: I prefer Haskell syntax more	01:02
jdiaz	askHell?	01:02
AStorm	(but not the rest of the language :P)	01:02
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AStorm	clean also looks neat	01:03
AStorm	oCaml is ok, but perlish	01:03
jdiaz	perl mascot is a caml :)	01:03
AStorm	(actually used these)	01:03
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: did you install a new kernel for it?	01:03
AStorm	jdiaz: noo, never menton that junk	01:03
AStorm	I mean perl	01:04
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: It just finished the upgrade (disablin all other repos fixed the busybox uninstall thing)	01:04
Navi	wtf	01:04
jdiaz	I agree with you in this point	01:04
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: is it safe to reboot?	01:04
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, no. rd mode output still lists old one compiled in finland	01:04
GeneralAntilles	busybox was upgraded with my install	01:04
qwerty12_N800	Should be if everything installed fine	01:04
qwerty12_N800	same here	01:04
elb	yeah I left perl behind when I discovered that ruby had usable regexp support	01:04
AStorm	yeah, but all these regexes suck	01:05
KotCzarny	preg_match is nice	01:05
KotCzarny	:)	01:05
AStorm	as awks and greps are much faster	01:05
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AStorm	no, it's slow too	01:05
KotCzarny	not for my regexps	01:05
KotCzarny	:)	01:05
AStorm	exponential on some strings	01:05
KotCzarny	ie. account writing time too	01:06
AStorm	even with well-optimized exps	01:06
lcuk	where do i tell maemo that i want an app running at startup?	01:06
KotCzarny	/etc/rc2.d/	01:06
KotCzarny	or .xsession	01:06
AStorm	or other	01:06
AStorm	use update-rc.d	01:06
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qwerty12_N800	make the init script 1st :p	01:07
lcuk	there is meant to be an init script with it, but its not starting	01:07
jdiaz	does the n810 use flash memory for its root filesystem?	01:07
AStorm	jdiaz: yes	01:07
jdiaz	That worries me...	01:08
lcuk	ive been playing with acmonitor (derf) and its not starting after reboot	01:08
AStorm	why?	01:08
GeneralAntilles	Why, jdiaz?	01:08
GeneralAntilles	What else would it use?	01:08
jdiaz	there is not supposedly a limit in the number of times you can write flash?	01:08
KotCzarny	lcuk, then .xsession	01:08
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, version i compiled worked :/	01:08
KotCzarny	on normal system though	01:08
AStorm	μhdd?	01:08
GeneralAntilles	That's why it uses jffs	01:08
GeneralAntilles	2	01:08
AStorm	jdiaz: yes, quite large	01:08
jdiaz	large enough to not having to worry about?	01:08
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, thats what im wondering, i just wanna check where it should live to see if its there but failing..	01:08
AStorm	jffs2 has wear leveling and all	01:08
jdiaz	larger than the life of the device?	01:09
AStorm	for now, yes	01:09
GeneralAntilles	There's a limit to the number of hours you can put on a hard drive, too. Especially a small one. )	01:09
GeneralAntilles	jdiaz, even if you do burn it out, you can just boot from SD	01:09
AStorm	and you can move the fs to internal 2GG MMC	01:09
lcuk	i once killed a 10mb section of my massive 240mb quantum fireball	01:09
KotCzarny	well, speaking of that	01:09
AStorm	or to the card	01:09
KotCzarny	there is a limit you can run harddrive DAILY	01:09
KotCzarny	;)	01:09
KotCzarny	for some models	01:09
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: it looks like it didn't update it fully. I still have chinook it seems. However now that I look in sources.list.d I don't see the tableteer repos. Where did they go?	01:09
AStorm	lcuk: 240 MB?	01:09
jdiaz	aha	01:09
AStorm	small	01:09
lcuk	yer amiga..	01:09
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, run /etc/init.d/acmonitor start and see what it says.	01:10
AStorm	ahh	01:10
lcuk	1st hard drive	01:10
AStorm	those were the days	01:10
jdiaz	what worried me is that some day the internal flash gets unusable	01:10
lcuk	i had a massive 10mb dev partition	01:10
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, Mine are there :/	01:10
GeneralAntilles	I remember my 50MB hard drive.	01:10
jdiaz	and this would render the whole device unusable	01:10
AStorm	jdiaz: unlike hdds, these don't wear out from reading	01:10
lcuk	-sh: /etc/init.d/acmonitor: not found	01:10
GeneralAntilles	jdiaz, it wouldn't render the device unusable.	01:10
GeneralAntilles	Boot from SD	01:11
AStorm	jdiaz: you can run the / fs from SD card too	01:11
AStorm	and from internal mmc	01:11
KotCzarny	or external mmc	01:11
KotCzarny	:)	01:11
jdiaz	AStorm, yes, I do know that, but whenever I write something on flash, I feel a bit guilty :-)	01:11
AStorm	only kernel and initrd have to be in flash	01:11
KotCzarny	astorm: and nolo	01:11
KotCzarny	;)	01:11
KotCzarny	and config partition	01:11
jdiaz	so I was being too paranoid, and I better forget about the issue	01:11
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, is the script called acmonitor :/?	01:11
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: can you paste me what the lines look like? is it chinook user?	01:11
AStorm	who reflashes thnese two? :P	01:11
lcuk	no, i know what you mean now - there is the acmon script	01:11
KotCzarny	astorm: firmware update probably :P	01:11
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, give me a min	01:12
lcuk	that exists	01:12
KotCzarny	jdiaz: flash memory isn't as wimpy as 5 years before	01:12
lcuk	and running that runs acmonitor and doesnt fail	01:12
qwerty12_N800	Who's gonna add diablo repo to gronmayer for joke :p	01:12
AStorm	heh	01:12
AStorm	empty repos?	01:12
jdiaz	Thanks guys, I'm less anxious now about using the flash	01:13
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qwerty12_N800	lcuk, do the update-rc.d thing then, I think it needs symlinks in run lvl 2 + 5	01:13
KotCzarny	jdiaz: of course noatime is a must ;)	01:13
GeneralAntilles	Actually, qwerty12_N800, how's it work just adding the Diablo repo instead of changing the chinook one?	01:13
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qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles, No idea, I removed chinook	01:14
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, i did that and its starting and working as expected. but its not starting when i reboot	01:14
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, hows your dcc?	01:15
KotCzarny	lcuk: have you added symlink to /etc/rc2.d/ ?	01:15
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, hmm :/.	01:15
AStorm	qwerty12_N800: instructions?	01:15
lcuk	you really think i know how to add symlinks?	01:15
qwerty12_N800	AStorm, For what?	01:15
GeneralAntilles	Haha	01:15
qwerty12_N800	lol	01:15
KotCzarny	ln -s /soruce/file /dest/file	01:15
GeneralAntilles	lcuk == linucks phail :P	01:15
jdiaz	jffs2 defaults to noatime?	01:15
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: no idea try it though	01:15
AStorm	qwerty12_N800: for diablo	01:15
KotCzarny	jdiaz: don't know, mine didn't	01:15
KotCzarny	:)	01:15
KotCzarny	but it is now	01:16
KotCzarny	;)	01:16
GeneralAntilles	http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/05/07/a-pleasant-surprise/	01:16
AStorm	jdiaz: it is mounted noatime by initrd	01:16
jdiaz	it is also supported on vfat?	01:16
KotCzarny	astorm: is it?	01:16
AStorm	jdiaz: noatime? sure	01:16
KotCzarny	astorm: mount \|grep noatime	01:16
AStorm	KotCzarny: it was here,at leas...	01:16
GeneralAntilles	change the tableteer update repo to diablo	01:16
AStorm	now on fanoush'	01:16
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: oh dear it restarted while I was doing the upgrade now I have an endless restart loop	01:16
KotCzarny	hehe	01:17
KotCzarny	someone is going to reflash now	01:17
KotCzarny	;)	01:17
GeneralAntilles	Did you kill the life lifeguard?	01:17
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: is it possible to use flasher to boot from a kernel on my desktop?	01:17
AStorm	EruditeHermit: thnatg's why there's ssh rescue mode	01:17
GeneralAntilles	As it told you to in the instructions. ;)	01:17
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, yes	01:17
AStorm	in fanoush' initrd	01:17
AStorm	EruditeHermit: no	01:17
AStorm	but it may be possible to use qemu-system	01:17
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: slipped my mind =p	01:17
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jdiaz	KotCzarny, is it enough to add noatime in /etc/mtab?	01:18
KotCzarny	nope	01:18
KotCzarny	mtab is generated dynamically	01:18
KotCzarny	and usually symlkink to /proc/mounts	01:18
KotCzarny	;)	01:18
KotCzarny	but fstab is ignored	01:18
KotCzarny	i just have changed some script	01:18
KotCzarny	jdiaz: try checking if it has noatime first	01:18
KotCzarny	as i may be wrong	01:19
KotCzarny	and it may be the case for vfat	01:19
jdiaz	mtab does not mention noatime	01:19
jdiaz	neither mount\|grep (as expected)	01:19
KotCzarny	try mount / -o remount,noatime	01:19
qwerty12_N800	Anyone think it's worth me doing app manager legal crap removal for diablo?	01:19
KotCzarny	qwerty: not yet, i think	01:20
KotCzarny	wait for final release	01:20
KotCzarny	unless you contact nokia's guys about it ;)	01:20
jdiaz	KotCzarny, ok it worked	01:20
qwerty12_N800	good idea, too much svn downloading...	01:20
jdiaz	KotCzarny: and I did the same for /media/mmc[12]	01:21
KotCzarny	then modify scripts	01:21
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KotCzarny	mmc-mount or something	01:21
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KotCzarny	and probably something in /etc/rc2.d/	01:21
EruditeHermit	AStorm: so it is not possible to recover this?	01:22
KotCzarny	i don't know why i laugh every time i read word 'braindamaged'	01:22
KotCzarny	eh: not worth the work	01:22
AStorm	EruditeHermit: you can overwrite kernel and initrd only	01:22
AStorm	and hope for the best	01:22
KotCzarny	just reflash	01:22
KotCzarny	:)	01:22
qwerty12_N800	+1. installing diablo is a breeze from reflash	01:23
jdiaz	mmc-mount mounts the external memories	01:23
KotCzarny	yes	01:23
jdiaz	what for the root filesystem?	01:23
qwerty12_N800	I hope Marius still has a job :(	01:23
KotCzarny	jdiaz: something in rc2.d	01:24
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GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, he wouldn't post it on a planet syndicated blog if that were an issue. :P	01:24
GeneralAntilles	Besides, Nokia wouldn't stick it in a public repo if it were, either	01:24
qwerty12_N800	True, but apart from diablo, we uncovered ftd which seems pretty internal to me. but I see your points	01:25
GeneralAntilles	Where was ftd?	01:26
qwerty12_N800	It was in the diablo repo afaik	01:26
qwerty12_N800	or catalogued	01:26
GeneralAntilles	Diablo extras?	01:26
jdiaz	grep mount /etc/rc2.d/* did not show anything, besides a comment	01:26
qwerty12_N800	I don't have that enabled afaik, let me check	01:26
KotCzarny	jdiaz, then create a script named /etc/init.d/jdiaz-local	01:27
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qwerty12_N800	yes I do, enabled as maemo extras	01:27
KotCzarny	and symlink it as a S99-jdizaz-local in rc2.d	01:27
KotCzarny	:)	01:27
EruditeHermit	gar	01:27
EruditeHermit	that didn't work	01:27
EruditeHermit	reflash required	01:27
jdiaz	I see, and I do a remount	01:27
qwerty12_N800	I'm glad i found that one though :d, it's fun :p	01:27
KotCzarny	anything you want	01:27
KotCzarny	:)	01:28
qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles, do you know if sticky dpad bug is fixed?	01:28
GeneralAntilles	Haven't noticed it	01:28
KotCzarny	qwerty: use soap?	01:28
KotCzarny	;)	01:28
qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles, same here :). KotCzarny :p	01:29
jdiaz	well, it was a productive talk. Gotta sleep now.	01:30
jdiaz	good night and thanks everybody!	01:30
qwerty12_N800	I may end up going soon (yes, i'm suprised when it happens) so bye in advance if it happens	01:30
KotCzarny	heh	01:30
qwerty12_N800	nite	01:30
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800, AStorm: if the flasher kernel boot didn't work, there is no way to recover this? I have to reflash?	01:30
GeneralAntilles	Man, I hate that Application manager uses the error sound for it's success events. . . .	01:30
lcuk	ahhhhh, acmonitor is written for bora i believe. running the binary on its own (via putty as root) appears to work and plugging/unplugging will work, but it wont start on startup and if i try "sudo acmonitor" i get a strange error	01:30
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qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, yes. if you have mmc boot, try chroot	01:31
AStorm	EruditeHermit: flasher what didn't work?	01:31
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, I compiled chinook version	01:31
GeneralAntilles	Oh thank god	01:31
EruditeHermit	AStorm: booting a kernel using flasher	01:31
KotCzarny	lcuk: what error	01:31
AStorm	EruditeHermit: it can't do that	01:31
GeneralAntilles	Application manager no longer refreshes the list for every little misstep	01:31
lcuk	same as this	01:31
lcuk	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14928	01:31
KotCzarny	eh: you have borken os, not kernel	01:31
AStorm	it can flash the kernel	01:31
qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles, lets rejoice!	01:31
lcuk	...D-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up;...	01:31
EruditeHermit	AStorm: it can also boot a kernel from flasher that it loads for one time use	01:32
AStorm	I'd try flashing in fanoush initfs	01:32
jott	ftd works fine under chinook as it seems	01:32
KotCzarny	lcuk: maybe it's not set up yet at this point, or needs some context, hmm	01:32
AStorm	and peeking in what's broke using ssh	01:32
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, try normal user or pipe dbus-uuidgen output to file mentioned	01:32
EruditeHermit	AStorm: how do I do that? Is there a page with instructions?	01:32
AStorm	EruditeHermit: just google for fanousn	01:32
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, you say you have chinook sources, there is only one tar available from his site	01:33
lcuk	do i need to use a different make command to build it	01:33
qwerty12_N800	There is a source tarball too, it compiles fine in chinook target and works too ;)	01:33
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jott	hm nice all the retu&tahvo registers seem to be named :)	01:34
lcuk	ahhh right, so you didnt do anything other than build inside the chinook target	01:34
qwerty12_N800	yeah :)	01:34
lcuk	the bitch here is that it works..	01:34
lcuk	it just wont startup	01:34
KotCzarny	lcuk, my guess it needs ~/.dbus/ or something	01:34
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, try jacking the files from my deb and replacing with yours	01:35
AStorm	what are you mangling?	01:36
lcuk	nahhh ill just reinstall the base version and see if it still does same thing, i installed it earlier to see if it worked but never got round to rebooting	01:36
lcuk	ijust ran it, checked it started doing what i expected and made changes	01:36
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timely	keesj?	01:38
timely	what's the n810 survey?	01:38
Navi	:o	01:38
qwerty12_N800	sourceforge downloading system is getting crapper and crapper	01:40
GeneralAntilles	It's on the tableteer site, timely.	01:40
lcuk	acmonitor is starting now, it just needed that dbus-uuidgen running	01:40
qwerty12_N800	like i said before :/	01:41
lcuk	w00000t instant fullspeed when i plug in charger :D	01:41
lcuk	yer i know qwerty12_N800 thank you v muchly (and kot as well) i just prefer to know WHY i am running things and that its not just something ive done	01:41
AStorm	lcuk: what about heat?	01:42
qwerty12_N800	:). sounds great! ftd can change cpufreq via gui as well. mind sharing source sum time? I don't want conflict with orig acmonitor	01:43
lcuk	what about it? it runs at fullspeed when playing movies for hours so why is this any different	01:43
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lcuk	gladly, but its just a hack around writing "ondemand" or "performance" to /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor	01:44
lcuk	acmonitor just gave the framework and timing to run it	01:44
jott	qwerty12_N800: does the ftd "Battery Information" work under diablo?	01:45
lcuk	ftd?	01:45
jott	field test display	01:45
qwerty12_N800	jott, no	01:45
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, see diablo thread 4 my screenshots	01:46
qwerty12_N800	it has cpufreq control too	01:46
jott	ah just found it	01:47
lcuk	then why didnt i know this before - i could have just asked you	01:47
qwerty12_N800	i only found out about ftd 2day	01:47
jott	and i just fixed minor dependency problems with it and installed it under chinook ,)	01:47
lcuk	so which page are these screenies on and what am i looking for	01:48
qwerty12_N800	cool,, but diablo ftw	01:48
qwerty12_N800	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17727&page=6	01:48
jott	lcuk: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1651&stc=1&d=1210449331	01:49
qwerty12_N800	look for me saying holy shit	01:49
jott	ftd also exists for s60 btw :)	01:50
qwerty12_N800	jott, thanks again for fortune :). works nice with conkky	01:50
qwerty12_N800	netmonitor?	01:50
jott	yeah there is actually one called ftd	01:50
jott	but it's like netmonitor	01:50
jott	or netmonitor was actually the ftd ;)	01:51
qwerty12_N800	my ngage had it for a while. now my w810 has some sort of.one	01:51
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jott	hah i almost forgot about this one: http://www.mrvfone.com.au/vfone/techtop/netmon/	01:53
qwerty12_N800	best one yet :p	01:54
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jott	well back to the NIT ftd :)	01:55
qwerty12_N800	yep :)	01:55
lcuk	right qwerty12_N800 i see it now, it displays the stats and allows changing, but its not automatic yet is it	01:55
qwerty12_N800	i never said it was	01:55
lcuk	no i know	01:55
qwerty12_N800	I said it's a gui for changin it	01:55
jott	Software Resets: 91 ...hm quite reasonable ;)	01:56
lcuk	looks cool though and better than digging through with console or scp	01:56
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KotCzarny	Also Flash is version 2.50	01:56
KotCzarny	Chinook one is 2.35	01:56
KotCzarny	nice	01:56
KotCzarny	but is it faster?	01:56
KotCzarny	:)	01:56
jott	hah probably a bunch of security fixes ;)	01:57
qwerty12_N800	:). jott, do you have nokia phoenix dongle? :D	01:57
jott	hm no :/	01:57
qwerty12_N800	i really want someone to try our phoenix :(	01:57
qwerty12_N800	s/our/out	01:57
qwerty12_N800	jott, 1 software reset :p	01:58
qwerty12_N800	my lifeguard is still disabled atm though	01:59
jott	hmm 1?! :O	01:59
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jott	cheater!	02:00
KotCzarny	hmm	02:00
qwerty12_N800	yep :). i'd offer screenie but i'm tired of that 2day ;)	02:00
KotCzarny	i see ftd can lock cpu op modes?	02:00
KotCzarny	or it's only a view only?	02:00
qwerty12_N800	yes as we mentioned 3 times :p	02:00
jott	but nothing special actually	02:01
KotCzarny	also there is suspend-to-mem	02:01
KotCzarny	whatare other options?	02:01
jott	hm this battery information has really a long list of values ...	02:01
qwerty12_N800	jott, it works for you?	02:02
jott	"Export syslog as googlemaps readable" :)	02:02
jott	no	02:02
qwerty12_N800	ah :(	02:02
jott	but the names are shown..	02:02
KotCzarny	does ftd need some deps from diablo or will work standalone?	02:02
jott	works standalone	02:02
KotCzarny	great	02:02
KotCzarny	:)	02:02
jott	just needs minor tweak of control file	02:02
jott	(for versions)	02:03
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qwerty12_N800	eww. ftd icon has xp comp	02:03
jott	heh indeed	02:03
jott	ugly green/blue	02:04
qwerty12_N800	hehe	02:04
qwerty12_N800	tutorial home applet crashes for me in diablo	02:04
qwerty12_N800	sending nitro report...	02:05
jott	hehe they will get spammed with nitro reports the next few days ;)	02:05
KotCzarny	:)	02:06
qwerty12_N800	:D	02:06
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timely	qwerty12_N800: eh	02:06
timely	how'd you get a diablo image?	02:06
KotCzarny	you dont'	02:06
jott	no image just debs	02:06
* timely is not used to seeing people metioning nitro		02:06
qwerty12_N800	read the thread :)	02:06
qwerty12_N800	i'm typing from diablo now	02:07
qwerty12_N800	lots of people know about the nokia hidden stuff thanks to my screenshots :p	02:07
KotCzarny	if it's on public server it's not hidden	02:07
KotCzarny	:)	02:07
qwerty12_N800	noone saw it before though :p	02:08
jott	not even nokians! :p	02:08
KotCzarny	how often you browse those repos?	02:08
KotCzarny	:)	02:08
qwerty12_N800	me? :)	02:09
qwerty12_N800	error while getting ftd bulk data from em - what's em?	02:10
jott	qwerty12_N800: have you updated initfs as well?	02:11
qwerty12_N800	no. initfs is still same :(	02:11
qwerty12_N800	i'm waiting till friday	02:12
jott	ah i guess that's why the ftd bme view is not working for you either	02:12
jott	http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo/initfs-flasher_0.95.11-200817maemo2_all.deb contains the jffs2 image of the initfs ;)	02:12
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qwerty12_N800	i stiil have diablo debs on my n800	02:12
qwerty12_N800	i'll flash now	02:13
timely	Navi: darn	02:13
timely	fwiw, last i checked the final image wasn't settled	02:13
timely	i'm pretty sure there are still browser changes up in the air	02:13
jott	well those with diablo will get them "over the air" anyway ;)	02:14
* timely nods		02:14
jott	Downloaded: 122,099,724 bytes in 663 files	02:15
* jott whistles		02:15
KotCzarny	hmm, ftd depends on some newer libs	02:15
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qwerty12_N800	663? my number was less :/	02:15
timely	that's interesting	02:15
timely	122mb is fairly close to the standard image size	02:15
jott	KotCzarny: see above - as i said minor version tweaks in control file needed	02:15
jott	qwerty12_N800: hmm i suppose i also got an extra index.html ..	02:16
timely	oh well	02:16
KotCzarny	i will just risk upgrading	02:16
KotCzarny	:)	02:16
timely	i guess i should spend time trying to write the release notes	02:16
qwerty12_N800	jott, lol	02:16
qwerty12_N800	application manager has improved	02:17
qwerty12_N800	someone likes their swedish furniture, ikea is autocomplete word...	02:17
KotCzarny	ftd depends on tcpdump; however:	02:18
KotCzarny	O.o	02:18
KotCzarny	w00t?	02:18
qwerty12_N800	o rly?	02:18
KotCzarny	and syslogd	02:18
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KotCzarny	no hurt in installing tcpdump	02:19
KotCzarny	:)	02:19
KotCzarny	or maybe not.	02:19
KotCzarny	more deps.	02:19
KotCzarny	argh.	02:19
jott	hmm.. for me only syslog was missing ...	02:19
jott	"apt-get -f install" worked fine	02:20
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KotCzarny	i'm thinking about force too	02:20
KotCzarny	;)	02:20
qwerty12_N800	for me, all deps were resolved by app man ;) :p	02:20
KotCzarny	i want just ftd for now	02:20
KotCzarny	:)	02:20
jott	no -f is --fix-broken not --force ..	02:21
KotCzarny	good old --force-all	02:21
* KotCzarny grins.		02:21
lcuk	luke --force	02:21
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qwerty12_N800	Kot: evil style?	02:22
KotCzarny	:)	02:22
* KotCzarny loves info apps		02:23
qwerty12_N800	i cant believe clear option was removed in xterm. svn had it :(	02:23
KotCzarny	lifeguard restarts: esd: 93	02:25
KotCzarny	hehe	02:25
qwerty12_N800	brb, initfs flash	02:26
jott	KotCzarny: watch the r&t registers :)	02:26
KotCzarny	yeah	02:27
KotCzarny	i'm on that page now	02:27
jott	wonder if this app was supposed to go public ;)	02:27
KotCzarny	jott: nope	02:27
KotCzarny	look at the section it's in	02:27
KotCzarny	:)	02:27
KotCzarny	hhmmm	02:28
KotCzarny	there is backup battery?	02:28
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qwerty12_N800	jott, hell no.	02:28
KotCzarny	hmm	02:29
jott	but having all this registers documented is a nice touch	02:29
KotCzarny	battery information page failed	02:29
qwerty12_N800	i'm flash-and-rebooting ;)	02:29
jott	yeah needs new initfs	02:29
jott	i.e. new bme	02:29
KotCzarny	probably need bme upgrade	02:29
qwerty12_N800	brb, im flashing that initfs ;)	02:29
jott	qwerty12_N800 will tell us if it works after reboot ;)	02:30
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jott	but bme seems to store alot of information :/	02:30
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KotCzarny	the more the merrier	02:31
KotCzarny	:)	02:31
qwerty12_N800	that sucks:	02:31
qwerty12_N800	"Flash and remove them? The device will reboot. (y/N)? y"	02:31
KotCzarny	overall nice app	02:31
qwerty12_N800	Image too big to fit partition	02:32
jott	http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/pool/diablo/user/m/maemo-mapper-topomaps-fi/maemo-mapper-topomaps-fi_0.10-1_armel.deb lol :)	02:32
qwerty12_N800	off to get fanoush's tools	02:32
KotCzarny	lol	02:32
KotCzarny	http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/something/	02:33
KotCzarny	LOL	02:33
KotCzarny	now that's something	02:33
KotCzarny	;)	02:33
qwerty12_N800	o_0	02:34
qwerty12_N800	diablo kernel flashed...	02:34
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jott	yeah basic auth though :/	02:34
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qwerty12_N800	go on jott, you kno u wanna hax :p	02:36
jott	but they still use "osso-software-version" borkness :(	02:36
jott	hehe l: nokia p: rootme ? ;)	02:36
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, yeah, I got that too . . . weird	02:36
qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles, do not flash initfs!	02:37
qwerty12_N800	wait a sec	02:37
KotCzarny	pre-installed-documentation-rx44_5.3_all.deb - 8.4mb	02:38
qwerty12_N800	"Data did not fit into device, due to bad blocks"	02:38
qwerty12_N800	anyone have a chinook original initfs? i desperatly need one	02:38
qwerty12_N800	kernel flashes fine though	02:38
KotCzarny	o.o	02:38
KotCzarny	qwerty: maybe you have overused internal flash..	02:39
KotCzarny	qwerty: i can make you a copy of mine (fanoushed though)	02:39
qwerty12_N800	initfs is clean :/. plus Ga got it too.	02:39
KotCzarny	hrm	02:39
qwerty12_N800	KotCzarny, please do that	02:39
KotCzarny	keep in mind that i use ext3 and no usb	02:40
qwerty12_N800	or could you extract it from rx34 file if you have it around?	02:40
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qwerty12_N800	please	02:40
jott	maybe try to flash the jffs2 directly with the console flasher?	02:40
KotCzarny	or maybe i have original one somewhere too	02:40
KotCzarny	jott: that's what fanoush flasher does	02:40
qwerty12_N800	jott, away from comp	02:40
jott	KotCzarny: yeah but not the initfs updater from diablo :)	02:40
KotCzarny	ok, initfs is which mtd?	02:41
KotCzarny	2 or 3 ?	02:41
qwerty12_N800	no idea :(. let me check...	02:42
KotCzarny	mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/tmp/n800-initfs.img.gz	02:42
GeneralAntilles	Can I just flash kernel?	02:42
KotCzarny	ga: yes	02:43
qwerty12_N800	mtd 3	02:43
GeneralAntilles	From the Diablo tools.	02:43
qwerty12_N800	ga yes, it works fine	02:43
qwerty12_N800	KotCzarny, thanks	02:43
GeneralAntilles	What's the kernel flasher?	02:43
KotCzarny	qwerty: i think it's the original, ie, before fanoush	02:43
GeneralAntilles	flash-and-reboot does initfs too	02:43
qwerty12_N800	delete initfs image	02:43
KotCzarny	Downloaded: 662 files, 116M in 24m 3s (82.6 KB/s)	02:44
GeneralAntilles	righto	02:44
KotCzarny	mirrored too	02:44
KotCzarny	;)	02:44
qwerty12_N800	KotCzarny, slow :p. I downloaded in 10m :p	02:44
KotCzarny	i have cheapest dsl here :P	02:45
qwerty12_N800	explains your site :p	02:45
jott	GeneralAntilles: there is a fiasco-flasher on the device now...	02:45
KotCzarny	yup, laptop served	02:45
qwerty12_N800	lol, serious?	02:46
KotCzarny	qwerty: laptop == pc + ups + low power	02:46
KotCzarny	:)	02:46
qwerty12_N800	hehe :)	02:46
KotCzarny	and quiet too	02:46
KotCzarny	:)	02:46
KotCzarny	and portable	02:47
KotCzarny	and i have all my data gathered in one place	02:47
GeneralAntilles	Weird	02:47
GeneralAntilles	Charging icon isn't animated anymore.	02:47
jott	mh file a bug :)	02:48
qwerty12_N800	regenerate gtk icon cache	02:48
qwerty12_N800	thanks KotCzarny , ur a life saver	02:48
KotCzarny	qwerty: :)	02:48
KotCzarny	qwerty: that's what i did when i could	02:48
qwerty12_N800	im now rebooting into new kernel :)	02:48
KotCzarny	backup :)	02:48
GeneralAntilles	I'll wait, jott. ;)	02:48
qwerty12_N800	thanks again	02:49
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qwerty12_N800	im now running with diablo kernel :9	02:51
qwerty12_N800	s/:9/:)	02:51
KotCzarny	anything different?	02:51
qwerty12_N800	seems a bit faster. ipv6 may be enabled, checking...	02:52
GeneralAntilles	Faster . . .	02:52
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GeneralAntilles	Ha	02:52
GeneralAntilles	Placebo!	02:52
KotCzarny	yeah, faster because 'clean flash'	02:52
* balrog-kun can't see much difference between chinook and diablo		02:53
qwerty12_N800	hehe	02:53
jott	hmm i wonder what the new gpsdriver brings	02:53
KotCzarny	jott: there was changelog posted	02:53
balrog-kun	except menus now wrap to the first position when you're on the last entry and press down arrow	02:53
jott	KotCzarny: no need to read the post :)	02:53
jott	just reading it	02:53
KotCzarny	:)	02:54
jott	erm the changlog within the deb	02:54
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KotCzarny	wrapping isn't good..	02:54
jott	* A-GPS support	02:54
GeneralAntilles	AGPS, apparently	02:54
jott	sounds interesting atleast	02:54
jott	yeah	02:54
KotCzarny	wasn't it disabled?	02:54
GeneralAntilles	balrog-kun, there isn't much different	02:54
GeneralAntilles	it's a maintenance release	02:54
KotCzarny	and debug called when something wanted to use it?	02:54
GeneralAntilles	bug fixes	02:54
balrog-kun	KotCzarny: i can get used to it	02:54
jott	* Debug improvements. Assistance data part separated	02:54
balrog-kun	teh wrapping	02:55
lcuk	if a program is added to sudoers do you still need to use sudo to run it?	02:55
KotCzarny	yes	02:56
KotCzarny	sudoers file is only used with sudo	02:56
lcuk	that makes sense..	02:56
lcuk	that explains why it didnt work when i was playing the last few days	02:57
KotCzarny	:)	02:57
qwerty12_N800	diablo kernel was compiled on Wed Apr 23	02:58
jott	better to add stuff to /etc/sudoers.d/appname instead of /etc/sudoers ..	02:59
jott	hm anyone with n810 checked if agps is usable on diablo? :)	02:59
lcuk	jott :) you are such a fountain of knowledge, but that doesnt exist on my 810	03:00
jott	lcuk: well read the changelog of diablo gpsdriver :)	03:01
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, flash it :p. get sum northern courage :p	03:01
jott	and read the binary to find something like /system/osso/supl/pos_longitude ..	03:01
lcuk	i didnt mean the gps..	03:01
jott	ah :)	03:01
jott	hm	03:01
jott	strange	03:01
jott	maybe some apps i installed created it	03:02
lcuk	im not updating to diablo yet, i need a stable system for linuxtag	03:02
jott	but it's actually the saner approach	03:02
lcuk	the sanest approach would be not needing it at all	03:02
jott	(if you put it in your deb the dir will be created)	03:02
jott	well given the circumstances :)	03:02
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: how did you get rid of the conflicting distribution message?	03:02
lcuk	has the cpufreq been adjusted for diablo	03:03
lcuk	i heard it was gonna be	03:03
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, I didn't have one	03:03
EruditeHermit	in apt-get	03:03
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, how to check?	03:03
lcuk	i would say can you see stars, just a minute ill get a test build ready	03:03
qwerty12_N800	ok	03:04
lcuk	oh feck it, im too tired	03:04
lcuk	ive got stuff i wanna do and cant sidetrack - ill get one ready tomorrow or somethin	03:04
qwerty12_N800	lol, i'm tired too	03:05
* KotCzarny not		03:05
KotCzarny	but i'm hungry otoh	03:05
KotCzarny	;)	03:05
qwerty12_N800	when me and lcuk aren't tired, the rest of you are sleeping ;p	03:05
lcuk	yer, while you lot were sleeping i was out feeding the ducks	03:06
qwerty12_N800	finger recognition works well	03:06
lcuk	.\|..	03:06
qwerty12_N800	lol	03:06
qwerty12_N800	\|\|..	03:06
* flo_lap is feeding something other than ducks ;)		03:07
KotCzarny	_.\|..	03:07
lcuk	V..	03:07
qwerty12_N800	\|\|.. \|\|..	03:07
doc\|home	V ~o===	03:07
lcuk	\|..\| o \|..\|	03:07
* doc\|home gets his coat		03:07
jott	\|X\|	03:07
KotCzarny	your head is smaller than your fingers?	03:07
KotCzarny	:)	03:07
qwerty12_N800	3<========8	03:07
lcuk	ive got those foam hands :D	03:07
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: how do I disable the thing that causes the repeated reboots?	03:08
KotCzarny	http://ds9a.nl/amazing-dna/index.html	03:08
KotCzarny	:)	03:08
lcuk	EruditeHermit, uninstall Vista and get ubuntu	03:08
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, foam? sorry, i'm being a dirty shit...	03:08
EruditeHermit	lcuk: already have it	03:08
EruditeHermit	lcuk: never had vista	03:08
qwerty12_N800	EruditeHermit, use flasher to set rd flag no-lifeguard-reset	03:09
lcuk	but better to find the reason for the resets	03:09
qwerty12_N800	maybe because dsme is getting replaced?	03:09
EruditeHermit	lcuk: the diablo ugprade is the reason	03:10
qwerty12_N800	flash performance is much better	03:11
EruditeHermit	sweet	03:12
EruditeHermit	I reflashed	03:12
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EruditeHermit	so here it goes	03:12
qwerty12_N800	see if you can install plug-in in chinook with microb svn	03:13
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, it's the Diablo upgrade	03:13
GeneralAntilles	Things that the watchdog watches for are getting upgraded	03:13
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EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: I tried it	03:15
EruditeHermit	qwerty12_N800: the flash player plugin from diablo didn't work with default chinook microb	03:15
KotCzarny	upgrade microb as well?	03:16
qwerty12_N800	ah. what about with microb svn?	03:16
EruditeHermit	didn't try it with microb svn	03:16
EruditeHermit	microb svn messes up the apt package manager	03:16
EruditeHermit	because you have to force depends	03:16
qwerty12_N800	it's much more closer to diablo	03:16
qwerty12_N800	I edited status file	03:17
GeneralAntilles	The svn is much nicer than the Diablo microb right now	03:17
GeneralAntilles	Any stuck the svn engine in Diablo yet>	03:17
qwerty12_N800	agreed	03:17
qwerty12_N800	I haven't tried	03:17
GeneralAntilles	The keyboard behaviors are completely borked.	03:17
EruditeHermit	I'll try after I manage to upgrade	03:17
qwerty12_N800	I'm too scared to reflashed	03:17
EruditeHermit	I just screwed it up again =p	03:17
EruditeHermit	but its ok I know why	03:18
GeneralAntilles	diablo h8tz EruditeHermit	03:18
qwerty12_N800	copy and paste is messed up with hildon-input-method	03:18
qwerty12_N800	in microb	03:18
* qwerty12_N800 can't wait to try aptitude and synaptic again in diablo		03:19
KotCzarny	Cluttered APIs, dependency hell	03:20
KotCzarny	As proteins interact in the cell, they rely on eachothers' characteristics. It has just been shown that proteins that interact with a lot of other proteins cannot evolve, or at least, only do so at a very slow rate. See Nature, 28 June 2001, and M. Kimura, T. Ohta, Science, 26 April 2002.	03:20
KotCzarny	hah.	03:20
qwerty12_N800	lol, theres another unlocked meta package with tr on it and all it does differently is install less :/	03:20
KotCzarny	The Central Dogma: .c -> .o -> a.out/.exe	03:22
KotCzarny	This dogma tells us that DNA is used to make RNA and that RNA is used to make proteins, which is like saying that from a .c file comes a .o object file, which can be compiled into an executable (a.out/exe). It also tells us that this is the only order in which information flows.	03:22
EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: how are the keyboards borked?	03:23
KotCzarny	Some code is sacred. We may not remember who wrote it, or why - we just know that it works. The guy who thought it up may have left the company already. Such code is not to be tinkered with.	03:26
KotCzarny	lcuk: you should read this article, very interesting pov :)	03:27
Navi	modest working for anyone?	03:27
EruditeHermit	KotCzarny: is that what happened at microsoft?	03:27
Navi	anyone with the diablo beta, anyways	03:27
KotCzarny	nope, dna	03:27
qwerty12_N800	is for me, diablo version	03:27
* qwerty12_N800 laughs at those nokia employees showing off they were using diablo :p		03:28
Navi	:P	03:28
Navi	I just get internal errors	03:28
GeneralAntilles	It's hard to activate the fullscreen keyboard with the dpad and return on the fullscreen keyboard does funky things	03:28
GeneralAntilles	like send blank searches to google. :\	03:28
qwerty12_N800	ah, now you mention it Navi, I do get internal errors after a while	03:29
qwerty12_N800	They should name it modest - having 2 E-mail's is stupid	03:30
GeneralAntilles	Ha	03:30
GeneralAntilles	Well, the idea is to get rid of osso-email. ;)	03:30
Navi	I _always_ get internal errors	03:30
Navi	I can't even launch modist	03:31
Navi	modist	03:31
Navi	ffs	03:31
GeneralAntilles	Modest hates Navi	03:31
Navi	s/modist/modest	03:31
qwerty12_N800	I can launch it fine, just craps out on me after a while	03:31
qwerty12_N800	send nitro report :p	03:32
KotCzarny	Now, DNA is not like a computer programming language. It really isn't. But there are some whopping analogies. We can view each cell as a CPU, running its own kernel. Each cell has a copy of the entire kernel, but choses to activate only the relevant parts. Which modules or drivers it loads, so to speak.	03:32
qwerty12_N800	i'm keeping nitro, it even tells you process name that messed up	03:32
lcdd	KotCzarny: fun article	03:33
KotCzarny	lcdd: yeah	03:33
KotCzarny	biology that i can understand a little	03:33
KotCzarny	:)	03:33
KotCzarny	well, more like genetics than biology	03:34
lcdd	it's no wonder that some coders turn into bioinformaticians	03:34
KotCzarny	now let's count cells in the body and laugh at quad cores	03:34
KotCzarny	;)	03:34
EruditeHermit	signals are sent by currents and changes in membrane potential	03:35
KotCzarny	bootstrapping paragraph is funny	03:36
KotCzarny	:)	03:36
KotCzarny	The same holds for the genome. To create a new 'binary' of a specimen, a living copy is required. The genome needs an elaborate toolchain in order to deliver a living thing. The code itself is impotent. This toolchain is commonly called 'your parents'.	03:37
qwerty12_N800	jott, does bme daemon depend on anything else? I'm gonna try extract diablo one and insert it into chinook initfs	03:40
jott	qwerty12_N800: well it depends on dsme so you probably need to put that up too :/	03:42
qwerty12_N800	ok, thanks. i don't know why nokia put out half arsed initfs	03:43
KotCzarny	because it's not official yet?	03:44
jott	maybe it wil work with the desktop flasher?!	03:44
qwerty12_N800	but it's meant to be tested as well, you may as well leave it out	03:44
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qwerty12_N800	night, i'm very tired	03:48
KotCzarny	:)	03:49
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EruditeHermit	GeneralAntilles: did you do the upgrade over SSH or from a terminal inside the tablet?	04:03
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EruditeHermit	does anyone know what hte default user password is on a fresh install?	04:13
KotCzarny	none	04:13
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KotCzarny	http://www.kottke.org/08/01/the-27000-apple-computer	04:23
KotCzarny	hehehe	04:23
fysa	Iron Man was enjoyable.	04:31
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lcuk	KotCzarny, changing resolution and cpufreq changes in program, you can see exactly whats needed and even on powersave can find a resolution which scrolls well	04:55
KotCzarny	lcuk: is it bad or good?	04:56
KotCzarny	and read the article i posted :)	04:56
lcuk	article?	04:57
lcuk	ive been in the shed	04:57
LinuxCode	hey lcuk ;-D	04:57
KotCzarny	http://ds9a.nl/amazing-dna/index.html	04:57
lcuk	hi there LinuxCode	04:57
KotCzarny	here you are	04:57
LinuxCode	hey KotCzarny ;-D	04:57
LinuxCode	how you guys doing ?	04:57
LinuxCode	havent been here for a bit again	04:57
LinuxCode	got exams going atm	04:57
LinuxCode	;-\|	04:57
lcuk	LinuxCode, im doing great, ive been invited by nokia to go to linuxtag and talk about my little nit	04:58
* lcuk holds aloft his tiny thing and waits for a gps lock		04:59
* lcuk gets tired		04:59
LinuxCode	lcuk, sweet	04:59
LinuxCode	lol	04:59
LinuxCode	gps lock	04:59
lcuk	indeed it is, and ive been playing with some rendering code which flies	04:59
LinuxCode	that sounds kind of familair	04:59
LinuxCode	openglea ?	04:59
LinuxCode	or whatever its called ?	04:59
lcuk	no, just a very basic graphics library that feels quick	05:00
lcuk	and kot, its a good thing	05:01
lcuk	being able to choose from the interface is a nice thing	05:01
LinuxCode	I need to check for new appz soon	05:01
LinuxCode	I had no time to pay any attention	05:01
LinuxCode	still ahvent tested the fedora arm port either	05:01
LinuxCode	Uni eats ya life away	05:02
LinuxCode	and brain cells	05:02
LinuxCode	getting too old for that non-sense	05:02
LinuxCode	2 weeks and Im finished!	05:02
LinuxCode	back to the real world!	05:02
LinuxCode	lol	05:02
lcuk	what ya been studyin	05:02
LinuxCode	BSc Computer Science	05:03
LinuxCode	what else	05:03
LinuxCode	lol	05:03
KotCzarny	bull sh*t cs ?	05:03
KotCzarny	lol	05:03
LinuxCode	yep	05:03
LinuxCode	bullshit cs	05:03
LinuxCode	theory bollox	05:03
LinuxCode	seriously...if I had done some of the things I handed in for work...	05:03
LinuxCode	in a real world work environment	05:03
KotCzarny	well, if you wanted more practical way you should have gone to technology school	05:03
LinuxCode	I would have gotten the sack	05:03
KotCzarny	or whatever it's called	05:03
EruditeHermit	raped is what its called	05:04
LinuxCode	KotCzarny, you need a degree in the UK	05:04
LinuxCode	theres no way around it	05:04
LinuxCode	+ you get BCS accredited	05:04
lcuk	?	05:04
LinuxCode	British Computer Society	05:05
lcuk	what do you need a degree for, i would look for competence	05:05
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LinuxCode	lcuk, true	05:05
LinuxCode	but the Government is snobbish	05:05
EruditeHermit	you can't get any jobs without stuff to put on a resume	05:05
EruditeHermit	or CV	05:05
LinuxCode	and some companies too	05:05
LinuxCode	most go by what you can do!	05:05
LinuxCode	EruditeHermit, yeh	05:06
LinuxCode	its a bit of both worlds you need	05:06
EruditeHermit	yep	05:06
LinuxCode	please the snobs and please the hackers	05:06
LinuxCode	hehe	05:06
EruditeHermit	your competence is tested at the interview	05:06
* unixSnob awaits someone to please him		05:07
LinuxCode	EruditeHermit, thats more self-marketing skills	05:08
LinuxCode	hehe	05:08
LinuxCode	hah! I was at a BCS meeting and a recruitment guy was there	05:08
LinuxCode	he said...students think because they got a degree they will get a job	05:08
LinuxCode	so funny	05:08
LinuxCode	they expect they will get a job	05:09
LinuxCode	so funny	05:09
LinuxCode	I laughed when he said that	05:09
lcuk	have you got anywhere in mind	05:09
LinuxCode	some people need a reality check	05:09
LinuxCode	lcuk, for work ?	05:09
lcuk	yer	05:09
LinuxCode	well, I was asked to call that same recruitment guy when Im done	05:09
LinuxCode	but havent had time yet to check elsewhere	05:10
LinuxCode	get these exams out the way	05:10
LinuxCode	then Ive been invited to attend ipics 2008	05:11
LinuxCode	fully funded	05:11
LinuxCode	so we will see	05:11
LinuxCode	lcuk, all I know is that I do not want to work with winblows	05:11
LinuxCode	thats all	05:11
LinuxCode	;-}	05:11
unixSnob	LinuxCode: what part of the world are we talking about?	05:12
LinuxCode	UK	05:12
unixSnob	LinuxCode: I've got the same criteria.. no windows	05:12
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LinuxCode	thats what ya name implies lol	05:13
LinuxCode	nice nick by the way!	05:13
unixSnob	Although Windows still appears in every workplace darn near.. for collaboration. But it's the dev environment that matters	05:13
lcuk	and yours :)	05:13
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LinuxCode	hehe ta	05:13
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lcuk	depending upon what you end up wanting LinuxCode, you can still work with windows, just look for a sane multi platform solution and be ready for the change	05:14
unixSnob	My last project became an effort to port a solaris app to windows. I was disgusted. It was a safety critical app too.	05:14
LinuxCode	lcuk, agreed	05:14
LinuxCode	unixSnob, how ironic mate	05:15
LinuxCode	HOW IRONIC!	05:15
LinuxCode	hehe	05:15
LinuxCode	scada critical ?	05:15
LinuxCode	or not that bad ?	05:15
unixSnob	If you focus on the aerospace / defense industry, generally the target platform will be non-windows	05:15
unixSnob	Not sure what scada is.. I've seen that term in some of the british job listings i've been looking at	05:16
unixSnob	Because my background is in Ada, Scada comes up in my searches :<	05:16
lcuk	im heading back into the shed	05:16
KotCzarny	lcuk: read the article	05:17
KotCzarny	it's fun	05:17
KotCzarny	:)	05:17
unixSnob	BTW, I think in the US if you have a degree, you get a job. Not many CS majors sitting on the bench AFAIK	05:18
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lcuk	holy crap dude, thats intense	05:18
LinuxCode	scada is critical infrastructure like nuclear powerplants, gas, water, etc..	05:19
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LinuxCode	unixSnob, well....this is the UK	05:19
LinuxCode	hehe	05:19
LinuxCode	shortage of people...but they all want to not train people	05:19
lcuk	you would be surprised at how many companies need developers	05:19
LinuxCode	quite silly really	05:19
LinuxCode	they want ready bred power clones	05:20
LinuxCode	that know all to be known	05:20
LinuxCode	lol	05:20
LinuxCode	with 99 years experience	05:20
unixSnob	well students who can score internships have quite an advantage	05:20
LinuxCode	yeh	05:20
KotCzarny	yeah, 99 years of experience on technology 2 years old	05:20
LinuxCode	get ya foot in the door	05:20
KotCzarny	;)	05:20
LinuxCode	KotCzarny, exactly	05:20
LinuxCode	lol	05:20
LinuxCode	id do an internship ...if I could do it at a place with my dream position	05:21
unixSnob	the heading on my resume out of college was "new talent with experience".. got flooded with calls, and flown around the country to interviews	05:21
LinuxCode	id live under a bridge if need be	05:21
LinuxCode	for a year or so ;p	05:21
unixSnob	the internship made a big difference, i believe	05:21
LinuxCode	probably did mate	05:21
LinuxCode	75% of employers want experience	05:22
LinuxCode	and a 2.1	05:22
KotCzarny	isn't internship refunded for employers?	05:22
KotCzarny	or something?	05:22
LinuxCode	2.2 with more experience is alos ok	05:22
LinuxCode	ok-ish	05:22
lcuk	the other 25% know you through the social ladder	05:22
LinuxCode	lcuk, hehe	05:22
unixSnob	KotCzarny: not sure what you mean by refunded.	05:22
KotCzarny	unixsnob: tax cuts etc ?	05:23
KotCzarny	for giving job to a freshman	05:23
lcuk	seriously, smile sweetly at auty polly and she will have a word with frank who will speak to doris and your name will come up when a job needs doing	05:23
unixSnob	My employer paid me 17 USD/hr on an internship, and AFAIK they didn't get that money back.. and it was quite a deal for them.	05:23
unixSnob	KotCzarny: I think there are enough built-in incentives that the employer doesn't need outside incentives	05:24
KotCzarny	hmm	05:24
unixSnob	A lot of interns end up staying with their employers after they get the degree	05:24
unixSnob	and it's cheap labor until then	05:24
lcuk	yer	05:24
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KotCzarny	"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man."	05:26
KotCzarny	- Elbert Hubbard	05:26
unixSnob	One of the advantages to bringing in interns is that interns often update the techniques - they bring more current ideas to the table, so the companies overall knowledge doesn't get out of date	05:27
unixSnob	damn i hope that's not a brown recluse that just crawled onto my screen	05:28
LinuxCode	nice I just had a slug as present lol	05:30
LinuxCode	silly cat	05:30
LinuxCode	unixSnob, in the Uk they want you to adopt their companies philosophy	05:31
LinuxCode	which is why they want you in the 20's with a good degree and experience	05:32
KotCzarny	and high hopes	05:32
KotCzarny	:>	05:32
LinuxCode	haha yeh	05:32
KotCzarny	and low maintenance	05:32
KotCzarny	:P	05:32
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unixSnob	LinuxCode: yeah, i've noticed that with some companies here.. pisses me off when the force old techniques on students who have been taught better ways	05:32
unixSnob	s/the/they/	05:33
infobot	unixSnob meant: LinuxCode: yeah, i've noticed that with some companies here.. pisses me off when they force old techniques on students who have been taught better ways	05:33
lcuk	but those old techniques are important	05:33
KotCzarny	http://bp2.blogger.com/_hNz3Mz_uViA/R5LsmQaxNhI/AAAAAAAAAgw/ZhUcf6_dX1Q/s1600-h/shadows.jpg	05:33
KotCzarny	:)	05:33
lcuk	you cannot just throw out and replace entire code bases	05:33
LinuxCode	lcuk, agreed	05:34
unixSnob	Students are taught about how to avoid mistakes that are being made in industry now, and then they forced to repeat the mistakes	05:34
LinuxCode	I think the issue in the Uk is that they do stuff bit by bit in uni modules	05:34
LinuxCode	they should do it once and properly	05:34
LinuxCode	but that would lose them students	05:34
lcuk	EVERY project starts off like that	05:34
LinuxCode	as unis rely on student numbers for funding these days	05:34
LinuxCode	if student fail or drop out after year one they are stuffed	05:35
unixSnob	Unless it's a more progressive company, like JPL	05:35
LinuxCode	the disadvantages of university fee based systems	05:35
LinuxCode	In germany its sink or swim	05:35
LinuxCode	simple as that	05:35
lcuk	you always want it to go well and smoothly, but people start to use and enjoy your code. ANY full rewrite will change that. once a user knows how to use a program they will continue to use it and only screw up when you change it	05:35
unixSnob	JPL recognizes that students have new ideas to offer, and they bring interns and entry levels in for that reason..	05:36
KotCzarny	api bondage	05:36
KotCzarny	:)	05:36
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unixSnob	Legacy products can really be improved.. and with very little effort. Eg. I worked a project where variables are named like ASRTWGSF. All of them. It was fortran code converted to Ada. I ran a sed script that made all the variables readable (after their meaning was discovered). The code was much better after that.	05:39
KotCzarny	8 chars limit, mmm	05:40
unixSnob	There was an old man on the team who knew what ASDFASDW meant, and I had to fight him on every change I made	05:40
unixSnob	yeah, no identifier exceeded 8 chars when I came to the project	05:40
unixSnob	but Ada has no such limit.	05:40
LinuxCode	unixSnob, lol	05:41
KotCzarny	current fortran compilers neither	05:41
LinuxCode	but butbut I like hierglyohic code	05:41
LinuxCode	DNDIKJDSIODjhisdjsdjsdj = ksjdlsjdfspofjspofdsdf;	05:41
LinuxCode	lol	05:41
LinuxCode	;-p	05:41
KotCzarny	tn=jk;	05:41
KotCzarny	:P	05:41
KotCzarny	then reusing jk	05:41
KotCzarny	;)	05:41
KotCzarny	usual fun trap for others	05:42
unixSnob	The other thing is, all these variables were globals, publicly accessible by all the code in the system	05:42
KotCzarny	globals are fun	05:42
unixSnob	So I encapsulated things, lowered the scope as much as possible.. and again, it pissed off the old man	05:43
LinuxCode	globals arent really an issue	05:43
LinuxCode	input/output is	05:43
LinuxCode	but yeh	05:43
unixSnob	The gray hair was not familiar w/ new techniques, or their benefits	05:43
LinuxCode	globals should still be avoided	05:43
LinuxCode	makes debugging fun if you use the same var	05:43
LinuxCode	haha	05:43
LinuxCode	doh!	05:44
KotCzarny	bug hunting too	05:44
KotCzarny	i usually use tmp as a name for a variable that i reuse often	05:44
KotCzarny	;)	05:44
KotCzarny	so i know no to hang on it too long	05:44
lcuk	only store single instance variables globally, if there is the slightest hint that you might use a certain named variable around, use it locally	05:44
KotCzarny	how about configuration flags?	05:45
KotCzarny	probably some function is better than global variable	05:45
lcuk	single instance, option_turbo could be a global, but tmp wouldnt be	05:45
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KotCzarny	yeah, i never use reusable variables as global	05:45
KotCzarny	i keep trash tidy	05:46
KotCzarny	:>	05:46
unixSnob	My main point is that most entry level candidates are bring advanced techniques to employers -- who often force them to do things the undisciplined sloppy way, and it's damaging to both the company and the employee. I hate to see it happen, and it's very common	05:48
KotCzarny	well	05:48
KotCzarny	everything has it's time and place	05:48
KotCzarny	that's called experience	05:48
KotCzarny	:)	05:48
unixSnob	An experienced, competent employer takes an approach like JPL.. embrace the new ideas	05:49
KotCzarny	A typical mattress is home to 100,000 to 10 million dust mites.	05:50
KotCzarny	If that's not enough to gross you out, consider this: dead mites and their droppings constitute one-tenth of the weight of a two-year-old pillow. Oh, and what exactly do they eat? Dead human skin cells.	05:50
KotCzarny	:)	05:50
KotCzarny	1/10?	05:50
KotCzarny	lol	05:50
KotCzarny	i can hardly believe	05:50
unixSnob	anyone here attempt to run the maemo sandbox within a branded Solaris linux zone?	05:53
KotCzarny	http://www.slashgear.com/portable-pc-has-3-monitors-075636.php	05:56
KotCzarny	w00t	05:56
* unixSnob is bummed he missed the amazon deal for 10 Plextor DVD burners for $111 USD		05:56
KotCzarny	dvd?	05:56
KotCzarny	what's that?	05:56
* KotCzarny skipped whole cd/dvd/bluray thing		05:56
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midwinter	can someone help me with a problem with Personal Menu?	05:57
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pupnik	I'd like a notebook with fold-out triple display	06:11
KotCzarny	:>	06:11
lcuk	just get an r2 unit and use your NIT as datasource	06:12
KotCzarny	mmm.. swiss cheese	06:13
LinuxCode	k guys	06:16
LinuxCode	time for bed	06:16
LinuxCode	talk to you all soon	06:16
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LinuxCode	hopefully	06:16
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lcuk	gnite folks, my bed is calling	06:30
KotCzarny	:)	06:30
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lopz	night	07:15
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Livingroom	hay guys	07:52
Livingroom	when i do sfdisk /dev/mmcblk0 -uM	07:52
Livingroom	i get This disk is currently in use - repartitioning is probably a bad idea.	07:52
Livingroom	what should i do? i unmounted and unswapped it	07:52
KotCzarny	probably it's still mounted	07:52
KotCzarny	mount \|grep mmc	07:53
Livingroom	dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,uid=29999,fmask=0133,dmask=0000,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,utf8)	07:53
KotCzarny	any further questions?	07:53
Livingroom	...	07:54
Livingroom	thats mmcp1	07:54
Livingroom	i'm doing blk0	07:54
KotCzarny	wrong.	07:54
Livingroom	err	07:54
KotCzarny	and you are blind	07:54
KotCzarny	:)	07:54
Livingroom	?	07:54
KotCzarny	that's partition 1 on disk 0	07:54
KotCzarny	and you try to partition disk 0	07:54
Livingroom	o i c	07:54
Livingroom	how do i unmount it then?	07:55
KotCzarny	doh..	07:55
KotCzarny	umount /media/mmc2	07:55
Livingroom	o i c	07:55
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Livingroom	now it's complaining about nothing being set bootable	07:56
Livingroom	aha! i repartitioned an SD	07:56
Livingroom	sweet	07:56
Livingroom	doing the clone thingy	07:57
KotCzarny	don't forget to leave a vfat partition, big or small doesn't matter	07:58
Livingroom	yeah	07:59
Livingroom	i left one ~500mb	07:59
Livingroom	2gb card gets 1.5gb to e2fs or whatever and then vfat is whatever is left	07:59
KotCzarny	nope	07:59
KotCzarny	vfat must be first	07:59
KotCzarny	then anything you want	07:59
Livingroom	i followed steps online	07:59
Livingroom	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=81635#post81635	08:00
Livingroom	these steps	08:00
KotCzarny	i don't care about steps, as long vfat partition has a number 1	08:00
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Livingroom	k	08:01
Livingroom	i love to rm -rf things	08:02
KotCzarny	why?	08:03
KotCzarny	you are going to format it	08:03
KotCzarny	:)	08:03
Livingroom	yeah	08:03
Livingroom	but	08:04
Livingroom	i had to rm-rf some stuff	08:04
Livingroom	hmmm	08:06
Livingroom	one of the steps says to know how to reflash the device in the normal way, if this fails	08:06
Livingroom	i do not know how to reflash the device.	08:06
Livingroom	hmm, can it be reflashed with windows?	08:07
Livingroom	all the howtos say linux	08:07
KotCzarny	for windows you just use windows flasher instead linux one	08:08
KotCzarny	and everything else stays the same as in linux version	08:08
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Livingroom	i cant seem to find the windows flasher	08:10
KotCzarny	no comment	08:11
KotCzarny	:)	08:11
Livingroom	heh	08:11
Livingroom	dont tell me i need cygwin or something	08:12
GeneralAntilles	Nokia support site, Livingroom. . . .	08:12
GeneralAntilles	Or . . . google	08:12
Livingroom	google isnt helping, tonight	08:12
Livingroom	google wants to give me lots of info on how to flash	08:12
Livingroom	like, camera flashes are on sale	08:12
Livingroom	flash memory prices are coming down	08:12
Livingroom	oh! and i can flash with linux, apparently	08:12
GeneralAntilles	Your google-fu is weak	08:12
GeneralAntilles	http://europe.nokia.com/A4305010	08:13
Livingroom	oh	08:13
Livingroom	so it IS the software "UPDATE"	08:13
GeneralAntilles	. . .	08:13
Livingroom	hmm	08:15
Livingroom	there's a second release, i wonder if mine is updated to that	08:15
GeneralAntilles	You can check in control panel	08:16
GeneralAntilles	N800s ship with OS2007	08:16
GeneralAntilles	51-3 is only a NOLO update	08:16
GeneralAntilles	If you're not having troubles booting, you don't need it.	08:16
Livingroom	ah, but i've got it	08:17
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Livingroom	mmkay so	08:18
Livingroom	flashing the inifts then	08:18
Livingroom	yayz0r	08:19
Livingroom	it seems to be working	08:19
KotCzarny	no kidding?	08:19
Livingroom	yeah i know!	08:20
Livingroom	i never figured it'd work	08:20
ework	hey guys	08:20
ework	I attempted to do something which seem pretty straight forward and now my n770 keep rebooting, after about 30 sec each time	08:21
ework	I tried to add another module to initfs and flashed just that	08:21
KotCzarny	seems like you broke something	08:22
KotCzarny	:)	08:22
ework	I bet a complete flash would fix it but I don't want to have to setup everything again	08:22
KotCzarny	hard to tell what exactly	08:22
ework	I tried to reflash from the original and no luck	08:22
KotCzarny	have you made initfs backup?	08:22
KotCzarny	:)	08:22
ework	also reflashed pretty much every thing but the root	08:22
ework	well I tried to flash the original initfs from the hacker edition (os2007) which I had other before with no luck	08:23
KotCzarny	then you have made some changes to rootfs	08:23
ework	sorry other=on there	08:23
ework	just through normal use, not with flashing	08:23
Livingroom	hay antilles, that "NOLO" update, is that the same as "sardine" ?	08:24
KotCzarny	does 770 support disabling watchdog?	08:24
ework	but could that have some effect	08:24
GeneralAntilles	No, Livingroom.	08:24
GeneralAntilles	Sardine is equivalent to Debian unstable testing	08:24
Livingroom	ohhhh	08:24
Livingroom	ok	08:24
Livingroom	yeah	08:24
Livingroom	i dont have that for sure afaik	08:24
GeneralAntilles	NOLO is NOkia LOader	08:24
GeneralAntilles	The bootloader	08:24
ework	is there anyway to not show the nokia logo and see the boot process, the equivolent of removing "quiet" and "splash" for ubuntu?	08:25
Livingroom	i c	08:25
KotCzarny	ework: probably	08:25
ework	KotCzarny, thats what I figured there has to be a way to get a serial console, not sure how or how hard it will be	08:26
KotCzarny	i'm sure there is a way to enable fbconsole	08:27
KotCzarny	that would require custom kernel though	08:27
KotCzarny	and maybe initfs changes	08:27
ework	I was pretty impressed with myself getting my EVDO verizon usb720 working and got a little too brave trying to add a module to initfs	08:27
KotCzarny	:)	08:28
KotCzarny	initfs has a very little spare space	08:28
KotCzarny	you would have to throw some things out	08:28
KotCzarny	but	08:28
KotCzarny	you don't have to add it to initfs..	08:28
ework	whats another weird thing	08:28
KotCzarny	one from rootfs would work too	08:28
ework	after following the steps and adding a module it's size was almost cut in half	08:29
ework	after tar2jffs2	08:29
KotCzarny	i would bet on incompleteness then	08:30
KotCzarny	:)	08:30
ework	KotCzarny, how would you go about adding a new module and having it load automaticlly then the device was connected?	08:30
KotCzarny	ework: /etc/rc2.d/S99-local-ework.sh ?	08:30
KotCzarny	:)	08:30
ework	KotCzarny, ?	08:30
Livingroom	sweet, so cloning clones /everything/ right?	08:30
KotCzarny	ework: as for working with initfs try peeking into fanoush work	08:30
Livingroom	also, this thing never had me actually format the partition i created	08:31
ework	KotCzarny, wouldn't flashing the original initfs fix things, because that didn't help	08:31
KotCzarny	ework: that's for future reference	08:31
ework	ah thanks	08:31
KotCzarny	he made some useful scripts to work with kernel/initfs	08:32
KotCzarny	i have a n800 though	08:32
ework	KotCzarny, I noticed I'm going to look through that and see where I can get	08:33
ework	might be back shortly :(	08:33
KotCzarny	:)	08:33
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Livingroom	ok...	08:41
Livingroom	something is wrong	08:41
Livingroom	it didnt ask me where i wanted to boot from	08:41
KotCzarny	it's only available for custom initfs	08:42
Livingroom	i c	08:42
Livingroom	soooo	08:42
Livingroom	where is it booting from then?	08:42
KotCzarny	two words: fanoush initfs	08:42
Livingroom	fanoush initfs?	08:42
Livingroom	yeah, i installed it	08:42
KotCzarny	but configured?	08:42
KotCzarny	if anything else fails, read docs	08:43
KotCzarny	:)	08:43
Livingroom	i dunno i just followed the steps :(	08:43
GeneralAntilles	Did you read the readme?	08:44
Livingroom	which one, i read like 4	08:44
Livingroom	http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#initfs	08:44
Livingroom	this one, in fact	08:44
KotCzarny	after unpacking initfs flasher there should be a readme i guess	08:44
Livingroom	yeah yeah	08:45
Livingroom	read that one	08:45
Livingroom	did kinda skim it though	08:45
KotCzarny	with understanding?	08:45
Livingroom	not really with understanding	08:48
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* qwerty12 upgrades scratchbox with diablo components		08:49
KotCzarny	qwerty: i sense sbox reinstalling	08:49
KotCzarny	:)	08:49
qwerty12	Me too :p	08:49
qwerty12	But it sounds fun :D	08:49
qwerty12	at least I may get a proper desktop...	08:50
Livingroom	oh SWEET	08:53
Livingroom	i have the option now to boot	08:53
Livingroom	ok so here's the problem	08:53
Livingroom	my options include the internal and the external mmc	08:53
Livingroom	and the external mmc is the one available by default ??	08:53
ework	ok so any idea how to use fanoush's boot menu when it's not already booted	08:55
ework	he doesn't seem to provide any initfs.jffs2 file	08:55
KotCzarny	it's generated from your current initfs	08:55
GeneralAntilles	Livingroom, bootmenu.conf.n8x0.example	08:55
ework	I think hopes of keeping my rootfs are lost, I guess its time to reflash everything	08:56
qwerty12	KotCzarny, reflash you say? ;). it's better than before :p	08:56
KotCzarny	:)	08:56
KotCzarny	qwerty: i believe in you ;)	08:57
qwerty12	lol, I've even got nitro	08:57
qwerty12	I think it's really just libraries, apt and dpkg I need	08:57
ework	is there a way to modify /mnt/initfs from the device?	08:58
KotCzarny	ework: not directly	08:58
Livingroom	sigh i'm lost	08:59
ework	assuming I get it working after a complete FIASCO flash	08:59
qwerty12	no it's mounted read only, it only can be modified through the flasher	08:59
KotCzarny	ie. fanoush scripts use mtdtools	08:59
Livingroom	i dont know how to fix this problem	08:59
ework	so maybe looking into his script there might be way	08:59
KotCzarny	definitely	09:00
KotCzarny	:)	09:00
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ework	finally i see boot progress	09:00
qwerty12	Why does flasher damage the version info on my N800 all the time for no reason?	09:01
ework	everythings gone :(, but at least it's not dead :)	09:01
qwerty12	That bug really needs to get fixed.	09:01
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Livingroom	ok, so	09:02
Livingroom	i haev the bootmenu but by default it's set to boot an mmc/partition that doesnt exsist	09:02
Livingroom	how do i change that?	09:02
KotCzarny	do it again	09:02
* qwerty12 now goes on my quest to get battery info in bme working (thanks jott)		09:03
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qwerty12	Wow, I just tried flash-and-reboot, a lot faster than fanoush's tools. Flashing both only took a second.	09:06
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KotCzarny	but does it allow you to configure boot menu?	09:07
KotCzarny	;)	09:07
qwerty12	Well, if you replace the image with one generated by bootmenu ;)	09:08
KotCzarny	yeah, sure	09:08
KotCzarny	;)	09:08
qwerty12	Also, bootmenu is gonna be annoying in diablo due to ssu :/	09:08
qwerty12	my wifi just fubared on my N800, it won't find any connections.	09:09
Livingroom	i cannot find a bootmenu.conf.n8x0.example	09:09
qwerty12	****. my n800 is reluctant to use any sort of connection :(	09:13
Livingroom	ok i reflashed initfs and it's still trying to boot off the wrong partition	09:15
ework	Livingroom, in my brief experience changing initfs is a bad idea	09:20
ework	I gave up and just reflashed everything	09:20
KotCzarny	:)	09:20
ework	won't take long to get things working again, I have root and xterm already going	09:21
Livingroom	ok, so i made a bootmenu.conf and it's still showing the wrong options	09:23
Livingroom	also, i'm getting the message that a memory card is corrupted or unformatted.	09:23
ework	Livingroom, is the memory card in fat?	09:24
Livingroom	i dont know what you mean	09:24
ework	using FAT formatting	09:24
Livingroom	i havent formatted it	09:24
Livingroom	i tried and it just says it's in use	09:25
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ework	you'd have to first do 'umount /media/mmc1' before you can do anything with it	09:25
ework	I just asked because I formatted mine as ext2 so I had to make a few changes	09:25
Livingroom	still says it's in use	09:25
ework	make sure you dont have any file windows open	09:26
Livingroom	well, i'm in the file manager	09:26
ework	you could also just partition and format it on a linux desktop	09:26
Livingroom	haha	09:26
Livingroom	dont have a linux desktop :(	09:26
ework	a live cd would have the tools you need	09:26
ework	I think I remember seeing mention somewhere that for bootmenu to work well the card had to be in a linux format	09:27
Livingroom	it would, but i wouldnt know how to use them anyway	09:27
ework	sounds like your problem though is that it's default to the wrong boot choice	09:27
Livingroom	thats the main problem	09:27
Livingroom	it's trying to boot mmc2	09:27
ework	n770 or n800?	09:28
Livingroom	n800	09:28
Livingroom	i even made a boot.conf thiny and included it	09:28
ework	the 770 doesn't have an mmc2 so I'm not sure what to do about that	09:28
ework	is that the external memory card?	09:28
Livingroom	yeah	09:29
ework	you're trying to get it too boot the main flash instead?	09:29
Livingroom	yep	09:29
ework	sorry no clue, I tried to make my own initfs and messed things up and finally just started all over again with the FIASCO image	09:29
ework	thought maybe I could help you figure out why mmc2 wasn't booting	09:30
Livingroom	o i c	09:30
* KotCzarny cloned to mmc on the first try		09:30
KotCzarny	:)	09:30
Livingroom	yeah mmc1 boots but i have to select it manually :(	09:30
Livingroom	well i cloned but the bootmenu is messed up	09:30
Livingroom	whenever i rerun initfs_flash, it doesnt change anything	09:31
KotCzarny	then you are doing something wrong	09:31
KotCzarny	:)	09:31
KotCzarny	read readme again	09:31
Livingroom	i did a chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool --set-root-device ask:mmc2	09:34
Livingroom	then i did chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool --set-root-device ask:mmc1	09:34
Livingroom	when i said mmc1, it set to 'internal memory'	09:34
qwerty12	KotCzarny, I hacked into http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/something/ - it's where they store their pr0n :p	09:34
KotCzarny	qwerty: any proof?	09:34
KotCzarny	:)	09:34
qwerty12	no :( :P	09:35
Livingroom	damn damn damn damn damn	09:38
qwerty12	EruditeHermit, if you are still around, did you manage to flash to diablo?	09:38
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qwerty12	http://pastebin.com/d4dc2f07a - who wants to edit my status file :p	09:45
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Livingroom	how can i see what devices are configured in initfs?	09:48
Livingroom	is there like a "boot.ini" type thing?	09:48
KotCzarny	yes	09:48
KotCzarny	see /mnt/initfs/	09:48
Livingroom	damnit damnit damnit!	09:49
qwerty12	you can see the linuxrc, bootmenu.sh and bootmenu.conf from /mnt/initfs like KotCzarny says	09:49
Livingroom	the bootmenu.conf in /mnt/initfs/ has # infront of external thingies	09:49
KotCzarny	:)	09:49
Livingroom	#MENU_4_NAME="External MMC card, partition 2, ext3"	09:49
KotCzarny	then you were editing wrong file all the time?	09:49
KotCzarny	:)	09:49
qwerty12	Livingroom, restore original initfs and reflash boot menu	09:49
Livingroom	?	09:49
KotCzarny	nvm	09:50
KotCzarny	:)	09:50
Livingroom	kk reflashing	09:51
Livingroom	stock one is in there woot	09:51
qwerty12	Hehe, http://i27.tinypic.com/2vi4lr4.png	09:53
qwerty12	Livingroom, if you made backup, initfs_flasher would have been able to restore it	09:53
qwerty12	Or you could have asked me and I would have extracted original one	09:54
Livingroom	son of a	09:54
Livingroom	i did make a backup	09:54
Livingroom	and when i restored it, the damn default config is booting the wrong selection.	09:55
qwerty12	did you make repeated backups (ie flashing it one time and making a backup again after)?	09:55
Livingroom	nope	09:55
Livingroom	one backup original	09:55
qwerty12	that is weird then. if you have linux, you can extract original components from bin/fiasco image using flasher	09:56
Livingroom	AHA!	09:59
Livingroom	aha aha aha aha aha aha!!!	09:59
Livingroom	AHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA	09:59
Livingroom	so	09:59
qwerty12	aha aha aha aha aha aha aha aha aha aha aha aha!!! aha aha aha aha aha aha!!!aha aha aha aha aha aha!!!aha aha aha aha aha aha!!!	09:59
Livingroom	it's "immc2" not "mmc2"	09:59
KotCzarny	is it?	10:00
KotCzarny	mrrau.dyndns.org:23280/n800/bootmenu.conf	10:00
KotCzarny	that's my config	10:00
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Livingroom	WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOt	10:03
Livingroom	i got it	10:03
Livingroom	thank you guys, so much.	10:03
qwerty12	Has anyone here edited initfs on computer? I'm gonna try now but it would be nice to ask someone for help incase I mess up	10:03
ework	qwerty12, I tried to add a module using my ubuntu desktop	10:04
ework	didn't work	10:04
qwerty12	ah :/. Maybe I will get lucky hehe.	10:04
ework	I'm not sure what happend but reflashing the original inits didn't fix it either, something with root got messed up	10:04
ework	qwerty12, n800?	10:05
qwerty12	yes	10:05
ework	you should better luck than I with a 770 using os2007he	10:05
Livingroom	woot 2600mb free	10:05
qwerty12	wow, I'm now using bash instead of default sbox shell, much nicer.	10:12
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Livingroom	i'd love to use bash	10:13
qwerty12	You can do on a tablet	10:13
Livingroom	i'm just so happy i got the bootloader working	10:13
Livingroom	it's epic	10:13
Livingroom	the next thing i need to accomplish	10:13
qwerty12	I once had it installed from www.nitapps.com	10:13
Livingroom	hmm	10:13
qwerty12	atm, I've got a lot of broken dev packages in my sbox :p	10:14
KotCzarny	:>	10:14
qwerty12	But at least I got personal menu to work :p	10:14
qwerty12	and I got the font :p	10:14
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Livingroom	haha personal menu is hard to make work	10:16
KotCzarny	?	10:16
Livingroom	i'd love to get dosbox with dos 6.2/win3.1 working, that would be epic	10:16
qwerty12	neva, it's quite simple imho	10:16
Livingroom	i'm stuck on 'cache file created successfully' when i apt-get install personal-menu	10:18
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qwerty12	ftd runs for a few seconds in scratchbox	10:19
KotCzarny	there's no use of running ftd in sbox	10:19
KotCzarny	:)	10:19
qwerty12	I know, but it's fun :P :)	10:20
KotCzarny	better hack some software	10:20
KotCzarny	:)	10:20
qwerty12	Hehe, I'm not good enough. Saying that, I have released some good things...	10:21
KotCzarny	darn. i need some music to help me concentrate.	10:21
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KotCzarny	let's try 4 seasons	10:25
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EruditeHermit	hey qwerty12 you there?	10:42
Livingroom	standard shutdown -h will turn off the device, right?	10:43
qwerty12	EruditeHermit, yes	10:43
EruditeHermit	qwerty12: I seemingly flashed to diablo but I don't get the same screens as you	10:43
qwerty12	Livingroom, yes unless you have charger plugged in afaik	10:44
qwerty12	EruditeHermit, whats your version in about?	10:44
EruditeHermit	its still the old one	10:44
EruditeHermit	51-3 2007	10:44
qwerty12	not done properly then	10:44
Livingroom	why does the charger give always-on? it's annoying	10:44
EruditeHermit	but apt-get dist-upgrade doesn't upgrade any more packages	10:44
timely	err, flashed to diablo??	10:44
* timely didn't think there were flashes for it		10:44
qwerty12	how come apt-get distupgrade was used?	10:44
EruditeHermit	how did you do it?	10:45
EruditeHermit	I am still unclear how you did it?	10:45
qwerty12	What i did has been basically summed up in this post : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=180257&postcount=283	10:45
qwerty12	Also to quote my own words "	10:45
qwerty12	What I did to install was reflash and make the symlink from archives to my memory card. I then used DTA on the computer to download the packages (more reliable) and placed them in the archives folder.	10:45
qwerty12	I then just did apt-get install osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked and waited for it to install as it needed no dodgy downloading "	10:45
EruditeHermit	ok	10:46
EruditeHermit	so I have some more stuff to do	10:46
kulve	is there a way to connect to known wlans even if I have active Internet connection through BT?	10:46
kulve	automatically, that is	10:46
KotCzarny	i don't think it supports multiple default routes..	10:47
KotCzarny	:)	10:47
EruditeHermit	qwerty12: I did a dist-upgrade	10:47
qwerty12	why? it wasn't needed at all.	10:47
kulve	KotCzarny: not multiple, I want it to disconnect the BT	10:47
kulve	otherwise it will drain my phone's battery too quickly	10:47
KotCzarny	:)	10:48
timely	if people want to, i'll have dreamhost mirroring the repository	10:48
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Stskeeps	what's the advantages/improvements in diablo again?	10:50
EruditeHermit	qwerty12: because I didn't see that metapackage in the posts	10:50
EruditeHermit	qwerty12: it got lost on me	10:50
EruditeHermit	qwerty12: did you ever get W: Conflicting distribution: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com diablo Release (expected diablo but got )	10:50
EruditeHermit	btw?	10:50
qwerty12	yes, I just disabled it but now I got a perfect working sources.list	10:51
qwerty12	I changed chinook to diablo and it works better than adding a line	10:51
timely	Stskeeps: if you wait long enough i''ll have a blog entry that explains what changed in the browser	10:51
timely	it's a really really long list	10:51
Livingroom	when booting from MMC, is there any advantage to emptying the internal memory?	10:52
timely	which i expected to have weeks to write	10:52
Livingroom	i could apt-get uninstall everything	10:52
EruditeHermit	qwerty12: disabled what?	10:52
EruditeHermit	qwerty12: changed chinook to diablo where?	10:52
qwerty12	the conflicting distrobution line thing	10:52
qwerty12	in the sources.list file	10:53
EruditeHermit	oh, the only line I have is the diablo line	10:53
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EruditeHermit	qwerty12: I think its because I don't have the metapackage installed actually	10:53
EruditeHermit	I think it will fix itself very soon	10:54
EruditeHermit	it checks to see if it matches osso-software-version	10:54
qwerty12\|gone	it's in the update repo. I have to go now for a bit :/	10:54
EruditeHermit	which I am installing now	10:54
EruditeHermit	ok	10:54
EruditeHermit	it will all work in 5 mins	10:54
EruditeHermit	I figured it out	10:54
qwerty12\|gone	gl with it :)	10:54
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Livingroom	when booting from MMC, is there any advantage to emptying the internal memory?	10:56
KotCzarny	no	10:56
Livingroom	kk.	10:56
Livingroom	well i have to bed now	10:56
Livingroom	nite all	10:56
Livingroom	ty for help	10:56
Livingroom	got everything worxing :)	10:56
qwerty12\|gone	does tar have a touch option?	10:58
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EruditeHermit	qwerty12\|gone: once done, I can reset lifeguard on	11:01
EruditeHermit	correct?	11:01
qwerty12\|gone	You should be able to, I haven't tried.	11:02
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EruditeHermit	sweet it worked	11:03
EruditeHermit	I have diablo	11:04
qwerty12\|gone	welcome to diablo :)	11:05
qwerty12\|gone	To finish off the job, run flash-and-reboot	11:05
qwerty12\|gone	and delete the initfs image and run it again	11:05
EruditeHermit	flash and reboot?	11:05
qwerty12\|gone	yes flash-and-reboot	11:05
EruditeHermit	what is that?	11:05
qwerty12\|gone	a flasher for kernel and initfs. initfs is damaged so delete it but kernel works fine.	11:06
EruditeHermit	is that run from terminal?	11:06
qwerty12\|gone	yes	11:06
qwerty12\|gone	if you still have rd mode enabled, run sudo gainroot	11:07
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EruditeHermit	these images are available: 2 images. Flash and remove them. The device will reboot y/N	11:08
EruditeHermit	you sure I remove these images?	11:08
qwerty12\|gone	you remove the initfs one.	11:08
EruditeHermit	it flashes the kernel to upgrade it and then removes it	11:08
qwerty12\|gone	you can flash the initfs if you want to damage the device	11:08
EruditeHermit	there is one initfs and one zImage-diablo-200816	11:09
qwerty12\|gone	rm the initfs file.	11:09
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EruditeHermit	how do I choose?	11:09
qwerty12\|gone	you dont, I said rm the initfs file.	11:10
EruditeHermit	oh	11:10
EruditeHermit	ok	11:10
EruditeHermit	physically remove it	11:10
EruditeHermit	and then run it	11:10
EruditeHermit	got you	11:10
qwerty12\|gone	yeah :)	11:10
EruditeHermit	sorry	11:10
EruditeHermit	I ate too many retarded pills today	11:10
qwerty12\|gone	no problems :), I'm tired from y/day :D	11:11
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EruditeHermit	so which kernel image should it now be	11:12
EruditeHermit	2.6.21-omap?	11:12
qwerty12\|gone	yeah, version number stays the same but run uname -v and notice the difference ;)	11:13
EruditeHermit	sweet	11:13
EruditeHermit	april 23	11:13
EruditeHermit	is it placebo	11:14
EruditeHermit	or is the ui much snappier	11:14
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qwerty12\|gone	Interesting. diablo initfs is bigger by 0.5 MB. unfortunately this makes it too big to flash on N800 so I am cooking up custom initfs with bme so I can use ftd properly.	11:20
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forge	:o	11:20
EruditeHermit	does virtual memory max out at 12mb?	11:20
EruditeHermit	128*	11:20
EruditeHermit	or can you set it to higher values	11:21
qwerty12\|gone	I think via command line you can set higher but it may be risky	11:21
EruditeHermit	why risky?	11:21
qwerty12\|gone	No idea, I haven't tested it :P	11:21
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forge	I think it somehow is fucked up, due to hardware or other stuff so that if you set it higher than norm it corrupts it and will cause huge problems	11:24
KotCzarny	nope	11:25
forge	No ? Why then :o	11:25
KotCzarny	my idea is that device has 128megs of ram	11:25
qwerty12\|gone	new library in diablo initfs - libbb5. which confirms my voiced suspictions that the n800 is based on bb5.	11:25
KotCzarny	so there was no point to have so much virt mem	11:25
EruditeHermit	well its all flash memory	11:26
EruditeHermit	so it should be pretty fast	11:26
KotCzarny	false	11:26
KotCzarny	writes are slow	11:26
KotCzarny	especially to random sectors	11:26
forge	But why does it goes fubar if you set it higher than initial ram size	11:26
KotCzarny	does it?	11:26
forge	It does on 770 at least	11:26
KotCzarny	770 had kernel corruption	11:27
KotCzarny	in driver	11:27
KotCzarny	fixed since then	11:27
* qwerty12\|gone is trying out cooked up initfs		11:27
KotCzarny	forge: i think it was wlan related mmc corruption	11:28
forge	Yes	11:28
forge	But 770 also has problems if you set virtual ram over 64mb	11:28
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EruditeHermit	it keeps saying my mmc is corrupted now	11:29
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EruditeHermit	lol	11:29
forge	And it hasn't been fixed, and the only thing i suspect is some hw related issue	11:29
KotCzarny	forge: it was fixed	11:29
KotCzarny	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11824	11:29
KotCzarny	Thanks should go to Tilman Vogel for detailed analysis of this bug, to Siarhei Siamashka (a.k.a. Serge here) for discovering and fixing it and to others who helped.	11:30
KotCzarny	:)	11:30
qwerty12\|gone	bollox. 2160384 is too big. How shit is the initfs partition?	11:30
KotCzarny	qwerty: maybe diablo changes mtd layout	11:30
KotCzarny	:)	11:30
KotCzarny	ie. proper diablo installer	11:30
qwerty12\|gone	But from what I understand, SSU calls flash-and-reboot. Maybe wimax tablet has bigger initfs?	11:31
forge	Kot, and youre sure that that issue is related to virtual ram size ?	11:31
qwerty12\|gone	I wonder what libb5 does too.	11:31
KotCzarny	forge: it's related to mmc	11:31
forge	Oh right right mehmuu	11:31
KotCzarny	so it's related to anything that uses it	11:31
KotCzarny	:)	11:31
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forge	Aye	11:32
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KotCzarny	i think it's fixed in he	11:34
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forge	Yeah in the latest should be	11:36
forge	Can't remember if it's fixed in the latest 2006	11:36
KotCzarny	probably not	11:37
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KotCzarny	because thread is from 2007-11	11:37
KotCzarny	:)	11:37
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qwerty12	I fubared initfs, tablet shuts down. Probably missing libs, I'll try again.	11:49
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qwerty12	Why does this happen:	11:53
qwerty12	"Sending initfs image (2061 kB)...	11:53
qwerty12	Write failed after 0 bytes	11:53
qwerty12	usb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable	11:53
qwerty12	"	11:53
qwerty12	So?	11:54
qwerty12	Fixed. Thank you 0xffff maker.	11:56
forge	:p	11:58
qwerty12	Hmm, 2MB is max for initfs.	12:00
qwerty12	test server is not needed afaik?	12:03
KotCzarny	see fanoush init flasher for a list of redundant parts	12:03
KotCzarny	:)	12:03
qwerty12	ok, will do thanks :). I'm gonna try stripping diablo initfs down :/	12:04
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Stskeeps	does this point towards diablo being n810+ only or?	12:06
Stskeeps	:P	12:06
KotCzarny	n8x0	12:07
qwerty12	is N810 initfs size bigger?	12:07
qwerty12	the wimax one will probably be.	12:07
qwerty12	Man, I wish fanoush joined this channel.	12:08
KotCzarny	he doesn't do irc	12:08
KotCzarny	catch him on itt or email	12:08
qwerty12	Yeah :)	12:08
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qwerty12	w00t, 1.8MB initfs image :)	12:10
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KotCzarny	i'm off to sleep	12:11
KotCzarny	night	12:11
KotCzarny	:)	12:11
qwerty12	Night :)	12:11
EruditeHermit	qwerty12: I want to know which theme the orange theme in the demos is	12:11
qwerty12	I dunno what theme it is :/	12:12
qwerty12	I didn't watch it	12:12
EruditeHermit	http://www.internettablettalk.com/	12:14
EruditeHermit	err	12:14
EruditeHermit	http://www.internettablettalk.com/2008/04/04/nokia-n810-wimax-edition-the-real-internet-finally-made-mobile/	12:15
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qwerty12	I'm sending a nitro core dump of testserver crashing :P	12:18
qwerty12	ooh, nokia are gonna hate me	12:19
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RST38h	qwerty: so is it ready for consumption? does agps work? =)	12:29
qwerty12	RST38h, N800 here :). I don't have gps.	12:29
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qwerty12	They really need to fix the initfs though. I went a made a copy that fits but dsme keeps rebooting the tablet at boot.	12:30
qwerty12	RST38h, tried installing the gps* stuff in chinook?	12:32
RST38h	I am afraid to screw my device installing this stuff...	12:37
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qwerty12	Ah	12:37
RST38h	Mainly doing app programming so if the device dies even temporarily, I wont be able to release on time	12:38
qwerty12	Yeah, not worth it then. :)	12:38
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K-Fox	hi	13:58
K-Fox	i dont know to uninstall xmms cleanly	13:58
K-Fox	my xmms appl have some problem	13:59
K-Fox	how?	13:59
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K-Fox	korea font break in xmms	15:27
K-Fox	why?	15:27
K-Fox	i did install korea font	15:30
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johnx	K-Fox, xmms uses different fonts	15:48
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K-Fox	different fonts?	15:52
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kpel	hi	15:55
johnx	K-Fox, or it might just not support UTF-8	15:55
johnx	kpel, hi	15:55
kpel	has anybody noticed thta recently the weather applet stopped showing the weather although it receives weather updates?	15:56
johnx	yes	15:56
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kpel	any solutions?	15:56
johnx	the author is on vacation, but someone found a fix	15:56
johnx	look on the garage page for omweather	15:56
kpel	ok thanks	15:57
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WormFood	kpel, yes...even after I updated it	16:10
WormFood	no doubt the site they pull weather from changed	16:11
WormFood	I haven't had it working in a week or so	16:11
kpel	same here	16:11
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aquatix	works here	16:11
aquatix	had to reboot my tablet though	16:12
aquatix	after copying that .so	16:12
aquatix	ohterwise it wouldn't work still	16:12
qwerty12_N800	What's the echo command to enable dsp?	16:13
johnx	qwerty12_N800, troubles with el diablo?	16:14
qwerty12_N800	no, just playing music is making my cpu full	16:14
johnx	wait, so you mean in mplayer? it's enabled by default for the built-in media player of course...	16:15
lcuk	does anyone know how i install the dev packages for freetype?	16:15
johnx	in scratchbox?	16:15
lcuk	no, on device	16:15
qwerty12_N800	Nah,there was an echo command and it worked because cpu went down	16:16
lcuk	qwerty cpu goes up and down all the flipping time, try fixing it to either low or high to get a good stable test	16:16
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, browse the repo manually and install freetype-dev armel package	16:17
qwerty12_N800	hehe, but i'm sure it worked	16:17
lcuk	ok, ill simplify it, ive tried this, but it came up with nothing: apt-cache \| grep freetype was i trying right or did i do something wrong?	16:17
johnx	lcuk, do you have the sdk repositories enabled on your tablet? (ie other -dev packages are available?)	16:18
lcuk	yer, ive got gcc and x11 and even sdl	16:18
lcuk	and maketools or whatever they are	16:18
lcuk	i just cant find the name of the freetype dev pack	16:18
johnx	apt-cache search libxft-dev	16:19
qwerty12_N800	any initfs hackers around?	16:19
lcuk	gotcha! thanks john	16:19
johnx	qwerty12_N800, for certain values of "hacker"? what do you need?	16:19
lcuk	:)i knew it was apt-cache but didnt know correct syntax	16:20
johnx	ah, <booming voice>now you know!</voice>	16:20
qwerty12_N800	Just someone to fix the diablo initfs to run on n800. I ripped out the crap to shrink the size down so it boots but it reboots.	16:21
qwerty12_N800	s/boots/flashes	16:21
johnx	it's not small enough to flash as shipped?	16:21
lcuk	whats the easiest way to get more room on the base FS, aren't there tonnes of docs for multiple countries somewhere on it?	16:21
* johnx is still reading through the tread		16:21
qwerty12_N800	hell no, i nearly killed my n800 trying	16:22
johnx	lcuk, under /home/user/MyDocs	16:22
johnx	O_o	16:22
johnx	qwerty12_N800, I'll flash diablo as soon as my backup finishes :)	16:22
qwerty12_N800	It has stuff for the wimax stuff in it now	16:22
johnx	I'm in the mood for trouble :D	16:22
qwerty12_N800	Cool :)	16:22
qwerty12_N800	Remember to flash new kernel, ftd works better with it	16:22
johnx	ah, but not the new initfs?	16:23
qwerty12_N800	It wont fit :(	16:23
johnx	n/m, I'll RTFT (thread)	16:23
forge	The story of my life, it's always too big!	16:23
forge	I bet qwerty is having the same problems ...	16:23
qwerty12_N800	sigh... :p, lmao	16:23
forge	What, it was funny now wasn't it :D	16:24
qwerty12_N800	yes lol :D	16:24
forge	I have my moments <3	16:24
lcuk	there are files inside: /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/Maps are they the built in map, or are they from me installing maemo-mapper at some time?	16:24
qwerty12_N800	lol, brb, trying suspend	16:25
RST38h	maemo mapper	16:25
qwerty12_N800	maemo-mapper	16:25
lcuk	thx :)	16:25
lcuk	rm	16:25
* qwerty12_N800 needs to modify chinook initfs image with some diablo stuff...		16:27
RST38h	ln -s MyDocs to mmc	16:27
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qwerty12_N800	diablo seems to have official ipv6 support. in chinook, i wwas using custom kernel with a few programs. But you need diablo initfs modules so i'm putting diablo ipv6 modules into chinook image.	16:29
johnx	ah! I know where to get clues for what to take out of initfs :)	16:30
johnx	look at fanoush's boot menu stuff	16:30
johnx	it cleans out enough room for a telnet daemon and an ssh daemon	16:30
qwerty12_N800	Been there, that's what i removed :)	16:30
qwerty12_N800	I posted a cleaned out diablo initfs	16:30
johnx	hmm	16:30
johnx	still too big though?	16:30
forge	Still too big ? :o	16:30
qwerty12_N800	But you flash it - reboot loop at initfs time	16:31
qwerty12_N800	you cant flash it	16:31
forge	Aah yes	16:31
qwerty12_N800	forge, happens a lot to you? :p	16:31
johnx	ah, if you use fanoush's fb_update_manual trick you can at least see what's happening	16:31
johnx	fb_update_mode auto, rather	16:32
qwerty12_N800	it does it before rootfs is mounted	16:32
johnx	so?	16:32
johnx	stick that stuff in initfs	16:32
qwerty12_N800	even before the rd mode output	16:32
forge	Qwerty, yes but now i was talking about the initfs :D	16:32
johnx	I'll have to look :/	16:33
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qwerty12_N800	johnx, i'm away from computer, any chance of addib	16:33
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johnx	addib?	16:33
qwerty12_N800	adding fb mode to my ripped initfs?	16:33
johnx	I haven't even flashed diablo yet	16:34
qwerty12_N800	sorry, hildon input method shortcuts...	16:34
johnx	gimme a couple minutes O_o	16:34
qwerty12_N800	johnx, that image was modified through computer	16:34
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qwerty12_N800	i think it's easy to add, add the lines to insmod and switch in linuxrc	16:35
qwerty12_N800	I'm gonna work on a modified chinook initfs.	16:36
johnx	ok, you do that	16:36
johnx	I'll start with the diablo one and see where I get	16:36
qwerty12_N800	cool	16:36
johnx	if we split up we can do more damage!	16:36
K-Fox	i have some error in xmms. i want to uninstall cleanly xmms	16:36
qwerty12_N800	hehe	16:36
K-Fox	how?	16:37
johnx	K-Fox, apt-get remove xmms	16:37
K-Fox	apt-get remove xmms <-- this command is not clean	16:37
johnx	why isn't it clean?	16:37
qwerty12_N800	xmms* because a lot of stuff is bundled	16:37
johnx	aaah	16:38
johnx	ok, then I don't know	16:38
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K-Fox	time display of xmms remain	16:38
K-Fox	0:00 <--- here dont move	16:38
qwerty12_N800	set esd as sound output	16:39
K-Fox	esd?	16:39
qwerty12_N800	esound. check xmms settings.	16:40
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K-Fox	ok	16:40
lcuk	:D w000t, i can compile full liqbase directly on the device :)	16:41
qwerty12_N800	:), it will look good at ltag :)	16:41
GNUton	hi	16:42
lcuk	when compiling, the main files written are in the actual src folder on external mmc1 arent they (ie, i dont have to worry about writing to the internal fs breaking the card)	16:42
* qwerty12_N800 wants diablo initfs's bme so he can try batt info in ftd		16:42
johnx	lcuk, your source tree is on mmc1, correct?	16:42
K-Fox	lcuk/ wow thank you~~	16:43
K-Fox	it's good	16:43
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, yes john	16:44
lcuk	damn forgot to clear	16:44
johnx	then everything should be fine	16:44
lcuk	excellent :D	16:44
lcuk	and compile speed isnt that bad either, now all i need is a smooth scrolling editor to jump around my code. i wonder where i can get a smooth scrolling text view from... ;)	16:45
johnx	the only directories that it would be acceptable to write to for a program during compile are the current directory and stuff below it and maybe /tmp or /var/tmp	16:45
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johnx	and /tmp is in RAM so that's not a problem	16:45
lcuk	mmc1 is FAT, is it allowed to ummm symlink tmp to a folder on mmc1?	16:45
lcuk	ahhh right	16:46
K-Fox	qwerty12_N800/ thank you ~~ wow after checking esound of xmms , display of time is normal	16:46
johnx	your symlink can point to a FAT fs	16:46
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, yes it will be good for ltag	16:46
johnx	but a symlink can't exist on a FAT fs	16:46
lcuk	makes sense	16:46
lcuk	im mega pleased now, ill test compile speed using vmware and directly using device for a comparison	16:47
qwerty12_N800	what about with a real linux instead :p	16:48
lcuk	i havent got one ready with sb on it	16:48
lcuk	i have a feeling all compilation work will be on device from now on	16:48
lcuk	brb	16:49
qwerty12_N800	i have a feeling my sbox is messed up	16:49
qwerty12_N800	I tried to install diablo components	16:49
qwerty12_N800	It actually works alright but apt is whining	16:50
qwerty12_N800	it looks cool though: http://i25.tinypic.com/2udugap.jpg	16:52
johnx	qwerty12_N800, interesting	16:52
johnx	it looks like more of a desktop now :)	16:52
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johnx	hopefully that means good things for source licensing	16:52
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qwerty12_N800	yeah :)	16:53
lopz	hola	16:53
johnx	buenos dia	16:53
qwerty12_N800	I saw a source package called wlancond but i think it's fake lol	16:53
qwerty12_N800	hi	16:54
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lopz	;]	16:55
lcuk	hmmmm 7 seconds in vmware, 5 mins on device. but over 4 minutes was spent on a monster module which creates brushes at runtime via varargs (over 2000 parameters in some functions)	16:55
johnx	O_o	16:56
* johnx waits impatiently for his backup to finish...taps fingers		16:56
qwerty12_N800	johnx, rsync?	16:56
johnx	rsync over ssh	16:57
qwerty12_N800	ah. i just use 0xffff and mtd-utils :/	16:57
johnx	suppose I could do that	16:57
johnx	It's handier to have a directory structure for me though	16:57
johnx	easier to get things back	16:57
qwerty12_N800	yeah, I just prefer flashing though :)	16:58
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qwerty12_N800	I'm such a numbnuts, before, i flashed os2007 initfs when running diablo.	16:58
johnx	O_o ?!	16:59
johnx	so the initfs might work?	16:59
qwerty12_N800	I thought it was 2008 one :p	16:59
qwerty12_N800	which one?	16:59
johnx	the diablo one?	16:59
qwerty12_N800	I cant get it to work. I ripped out files using fanoush's list and it flashes and i get reboot loop	17:00
lcuk	ok, compiling 3 files which get changed often takes 9 seconds on device :) (<1sec on vmware) that is acceptable	17:00
qwerty12_N800	The os2007 initfs worked,except for wifi and usb ;p	17:01
qwerty12_N800	s/;)/:)	17:01
johnx	almost everything is in the kernel	17:01
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Navi	Ugh	17:04
johnx	a compressed rootfs is a funny thing. after rsync, my tablet's / takes up 273MB and climbing as the backup continues... :)	17:04
johnx	Navi, eh?	17:04
Navi	I'm too lazy to do anything to my N800	17:04
johnx	oh noes!	17:04
Navi	I reflashed it again and I don't have the will to set it up	17:04
qwerty12_N800	aiii	17:04
K-Fox	n900 is atop cpu?	17:04
Navi	so it's just a paperweight.	17:04
K-Fox	atom cpu	17:04
Navi	No	17:05
johnx	Navi, then dance con el diablo :)	17:05
Navi	Did	17:05
Navi	wasn't impressed	17:05
johnx	ah	17:05
johnx	lots of breakage?	17:05
Navi	microb-engine was old and modest didn't work	17:05
johnx	I want that new apt so I can start getting aptitude compiled	17:07
Navi	I broke the browser and removed a huge chunk of files trying to replace modest	17:07
Navi	files I couldn't get back, btw	17:07
qwerty12_N800	i'm trying synaptic later	17:07
johnx	synaptic will be a pain with the huge fonts and the smallish screen	17:08
Navi	so I reflashed to Chinook and now it's sitting on my desk powered off since the reflash	17:08
johnx	it just fits in debian	17:08
lcuk	if i move fs onto mmc will it speed it up?	17:08
johnx	lcuk, move what onto sd?	17:08
johnx	ah	17:08
johnx	sorry	17:08
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johnx	didn't read	17:08
lcuk	base /	17:08
Navi	the flash in the N800 is slow	17:08
qwerty12_N800	aptitude is ncurses, w.out kbd, ncurses apps are weird	17:08
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lcuk	yer i heard, but does it have a class rating	17:09
johnx	lcuk, for write and/or read intensive stuff, yes	17:09
Navi	Class ratings are for SDHC cards	17:09
lcuk	exactly, if i get a class 4 device will it be faster than the internal	17:09
lcuk	or do i need class 6 for speed up	17:09
johnx	qwerty12_N800, it's mainly for getting yourself out of bad situations so if it only works over ssh that's ok with me	17:10
qwerty12_N800	I don't really feel like going to the computer much	17:11
johnx	well, usb keyboard will work too	17:12
johnx	you have an n810, yes?	17:12
qwerty12_N800	me? no, i have n800.	17:13
johnx	for some reason I thought you had both	17:13
* johnx must be confused		17:14
* lcuk is confused most of the tim		17:14
lcuk	+e	17:14
lcuk	see	17:14
johnx	I love arping	17:14
johnx	laziest way ever to look up MAC addresses	17:14
* qwerty12_N800 wants 810 wimax for bigger initfs partition		17:14
johnx	qwerty12_N800, you can load initfs over the flasher, right?	17:15
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lcuk	i only want an ide now :)	17:15
qwerty12_N800	I think so, i kept flashing though	17:15
johnx	maybe this is a development initfs that has extra debugging and isn't meant to be flashed	17:15
qwerty12_N800	what about the kernel though?	17:16
lcuk	optimization is the final stage	17:16
johnx	load both "over the wire"	17:16
lcuk	is it easy to reformat my external mmc?	17:17
qwerty12_N800	file manager can do it	17:17
lcuk	o rly	17:17
qwerty12_N800	ya rly	17:18
lcuk	wicked!	17:18
lcuk	but what fs does it give	17:18
johnx	FAT	17:18
johnx	16 for <2GB, 32 for >2GB	17:19
lcuk	well thats not exactly what i need :P	17:19
lcuk	how do i format using the same fs as /	17:19
qwerty12_N800	oh,you need it ext2 for exec?	17:19
johnx	you don't	17:19
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johnx	use ext2 or ext3	17:19
qwerty12_N800	/ is jffs2, u dont want that	17:19
lcuk	ok why not?	17:20
johnx	it's for raw NAND devices only	17:20
qwerty12_N800	jffs2 is compressed, it's meant for flash devices	17:20
johnx	the N800 can only see the mmc card as a block device (like a hd)	17:20
johnx	and it doesn't matter whether you want it or not: you can't have it. :)	17:21
lcuk	ahhh ok, then how do i do ext2?	17:21
johnx	mkfs.ext2 -m5 /dev/mmcblk0p1 (will leave 5% reserved for root, or -m0 for no reserved space)	17:21
johnx	5% is the default	17:21
qwerty12_N800	if you want it to be ext2, follow the many cloneing guides	17:21
qwerty12_N800	minus the clone process	17:21
lcuk	i tried following one of the cloning guides but was geared towards 800 with different mmcblk layouts and i didnt want to format the wrong one	17:22
johnx	aaah... is your card partitioned?	17:22
lcuk	it is now - as fat	17:22
johnx	errr...but just one big FAT partition?	17:22
lcuk	i stopped when my settings were different to the listed ones	17:22
lcuk	yer	17:22
johnx	the p1 part means 1st partition, and you only have one :)	17:23
johnx	/dev/mmcblk0p1 mounts on /media/mmc2	17:23
lcuk	mmc is built in card on 810	17:23
johnx	/dev/mmc1blk1 mounts on /media/mmc1	17:23
lcuk	mmc2	17:23
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johnx	you can see for yourself with "mount"	17:24
qwerty12_N800	mmc1 is the external removable card in 810 afaik	17:24
lcuk	yer it is	17:24
lcuk	its a shame i cant just format directly the /media/mmc2 device without havign to identify the mmcblk related	17:26
johnx	nah, it's not	17:26
johnx	it's better this way for complicated reasons :)	17:26
qwerty12_N800	linux works in devices for "low" level stuff, not mount points	17:26
lcuk	well i would feel comfotable working with what i read and see and use. like on windows, i format c drive i dont care where on the ide bus it is	17:27
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johnx	It's really, really nice that you can have any arbitrary block device make up any part of the file system	17:27
johnx	after you get comfortable with the disconnect you'll probably like it too	17:27
qwerty12_N800	to anyone using diablo, have they tried sp-oops-extract?	17:28
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johnx	lcuk, that disconnect between device and mount point is what makes booting from SD a completely "hack-less" process. Nokia didn't have to do any extra work to make it behave.	17:29
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qwerty12_N800	sp-oops-extract: "Description: A tool for extracting OOPS/panic logs. this small tool allows the extraction of OOPS and panic logs from selected mtd device"	17:31
johnx	fun	17:31
lcuk	ok johnx where can i list which mmcblks there are and things like capacity	17:33
johnx	mount lists what device is on which mountpoint	17:33
johnx	df -h lists the capacity and usage of mounted filesystems	17:33
johnx	if we had fdisk you could use fdisk -l to list the capacity of unmounted filesystems	17:33
lcuk	its ok, the df command gives me the info i need :) thanks	17:34
qwerty12_N800	johnx, you know you want to compile :p	17:34
lcuk	/dev/mmcblk1p1 966.8M 4.0k 966.8M 0% /media/mmc1	17:34
johnx	yup, looks like your external card	17:34
jaska	/proc/partitions might help	17:35
lcuk	yer ive got the full list, i havent seen anything which relates them before	17:35
johnx	ah, smacks forhead	17:35
johnx	jaska is right of course :)	17:35
qwerty12_N800	anyone know the svn locations of the maemo versions of apt & dpkg?	17:43
johnx	are they different from mainline debian? O_o	17:44
qwerty12_N800	I dunno,I just want to be sure :)	17:45
qwerty12_N800	apt version is something like maemo1 though	17:45
johnx	well, they have to have source up, but it might not be in svn...it's probably a really simple patch or something	17:45
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* qwerty12 is now getting down to some initfs hacking muhahahahahz		17:51
* johnx updates to diablo		17:51
johnx	I'm going to try booting the diablo initrd without flashing it or the kernel to see if it even works at this point	17:52
johnx	the joke would be on us if it's just broken this weak :)	17:52
johnx	s/weak/week/g	17:52
infobot	johnx meant: the joke would be on us if it's just broken this week :)	17:52
qwerty12	lol :D	17:52
qwerty12	johnx, which one? the original or my ripped one?	17:52
johnx	the original	17:53
qwerty12	Ah :)	17:53
t_s_o	heh, its like watching kids in a candy store after closing	17:53
johnx	t_s_o, you're just jealous :)	17:53
t_s_o	more likely careful. i did one to many reflashes of my 770 before it went wsod...	17:54
* qwerty12 has flashed diablo 4 times already		17:54
johnx	I don't think there's any known WSOD problem with the n8x0	17:54
johnx	and I know people have flashed more than me...	17:54
johnx	so I'm not too worried	17:54
qwerty12	me for instance...	17:54
johnx	heh	17:55
johnx	wasn't gonna say it :D	17:55
qwerty12	lol :D	17:55
johnx	I've flashed my poor zauruses quite a bit as well	17:55
qwerty12	I've flashed my phone so much times that the battery cover is loose now :/	17:55
t_s_o	lets just say i want to have a N800 i can use without having to reflash ever so often ;)	17:56
* johnx romps through the candy store...nom, nom, nom		17:57
acydlord	anyone know the specs on the keyboard backlight leds? i'm getting bored of the blue	17:57
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qwerty12	I still wish this guy had put up his source somewhere: http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/2494/1497/1600/434726/screenshot03.png	17:59
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qwerty12	Ok, I think I found apt source: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/apt/0.7.6maemo2/	18:01
johnx	great, just got an I/O error downloading .debs to my SD card O_o	18:01
johnx	ah, good	18:01
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qwerty12	johnx, are you using high speed kernel?	18:02
johnx	nope	18:02
johnx	fresh reflash to os2008 51-3	18:02
qwerty12	Give it an fsck and try again. my old card did that.	18:02
johnx	fscking card now	18:02
johnx	this is my "debian dev" card	18:02
qwerty12	Or download the packages via computer, it's what I did and it works great.	18:02
johnx	so it sees lots of writes and big compiles	18:03
johnx	it might just be dying :(	18:03
qwerty12	ah	18:03
qwerty12	Anyone know the svn link for this: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/apt/0.7.6maemo2/ ?	18:03
qwerty12	forget it, it works.	18:04
qwerty12	Here is dpkg source - https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/dpkg/1.14.7maemo5/ . Arent I resourceful ^-^	18:05
qwerty12	:p	18:05
Jaffa	af'noon, all	18:05
qwerty12	afternoon	18:06
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qwerty12	Ok, I've compiled apt. How do I install it, make install doesn't work.	18:10
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johnx	you compiled on the tablet?	18:11
qwerty12	in scratchbox, I need the new headers etc	18:12
johnx	normally you'd package a .deb of it	18:12
qwerty12	ah, ok thanks.	18:12
johnx	so dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot	18:12
qwerty12	Thanks :)	18:12
johnx	sure, call it enlightened self interest :)	18:12
qwerty12	hehe :). I like SSU, it means I have copy of original debs if things mess up	18:13
johnx	yes, that will be very nice for people I think	18:13
johnx	it would also be cool to keep that one package that marks all the right versions of default stuff	18:13
qwerty12	the osso-software-version thing?	18:14
johnx	yeah	18:14
johnx	tell people: "you have problems?" run apt-get -f install osso-software-version-default or whatever	18:14
johnx	and get them back to nokia versions	18:14
qwerty12	I wonder what unlocked means? :/. Is Marius Vollmer on here?	18:14
qwerty12	Yeah :)	18:14
johnx	unlocked? maybe it doesn't accept updates by default?	18:15
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johnx	maybe there's an opt-in?	18:15
johnx	or maybe it's really a phone!	18:15
qwerty12	Yeah, probably. There is an package without the locked but no one has tried it.	18:15
Stskeeps	lock in to wimax? :P	18:15
qwerty12	Lol :P :)	18:15
qwerty12	I need to get round to making that chinook initfs with the diablo ipv6 modules	18:16
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johnx	ok, no more I/O errors, so hopefully this will all automagically "just work"	18:16
qwerty12	gl	18:16
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* qwerty12 has just installed my apt compiled pkgs. Now to do dpkg.		18:20
forge	It is doomed to fail	18:21
qwerty12	Why? It's not big enough? :p	18:21
forge	Youre too hung on the big issue now	18:22
qwerty12	Of course	18:22
forge	Bigger isn't always better!	18:22
qwerty12	Lol, anyway, so why do you think it will fail? my scratchbox is already messed up	18:22
forge	It's how you use the space you have that makes or breaks it!	18:22
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forge	Just spouting random words out of boredom	18:23
qwerty12	oh lol	18:23
johnx	bigger is always better: http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/17/manhattan-adventures-with-a-20-inch-laptop/	18:23
forge	And imaging 9xx series tablet with proper hw etc :/	18:23
forge	Or a better UI than what nokia is providing now	18:24
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forge	Waiting eagerly for someone to port mobile ubuntu on 770 :o	18:25
qwerty12	now now, N8*0 before 770 ;) :P	18:25
johnx	so what are you looking for from ubuntu?	18:25
forge	The ui is more thumb friendly than what were using now	18:26
johnx	it also requires 512MB of RAM :)	18:26
forge	So they say but i could imagine one would get it to run with less if they tried :o	18:27
Jaffa	...and a h/w accelerated GPU	18:27
johnx	forge, sure, 448MB of swap would work too	18:27
forge	:)	18:27
lcuk	mm hardware accelerated gpu	18:27
forge	That would be nice ... even on OS2008 :o	18:28
NullM0dem		18:29
NullM0dem	armedslack would rock	18:29
johnx	that being said, many of the other apps made for hildon for ubuntu mobile will be prime recompile candidates, once they're actually stable	18:29
NullM0dem	sorry dont know what that was	18:29
johnx	the revenge of whitespace :)	18:29
NullM0dem	yeah	18:29
NullM0dem	fell alseep on my keyboard at work	18:29
NullM0dem	:P	18:29
lcuk	nullmodem has line noise	18:29
NullM0dem	lol	18:29
johnx	armedslack would be pretty trivially easy if you borrowed bits from debian	18:29
NullM0dem	Thats what i was thinking	18:30
johnx	and using the console on an n800 with USB keyboard is just fun :)	18:30
NullM0dem	i like working with .tgz over apt the space saving would be immense	18:30
qwerty12	johnx, forget aptitude, dselect compiles with dpkg package :P. w00t! :P	18:31
NullM0dem	true, I have the n810	18:31
johnx	gah, dselect O_o	18:31
johnx	NullM0dem, so what's a "base" install for armedslack?	18:31
NullM0dem	i think around 300	18:31
johnx	ah, so you do save ~30MB vs Debian I guess	18:32
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NullM0dem	yes	18:32
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NullM0dem	not that it is critical	18:32
johnx	yeah, I'd pay 30MB for apt updates and installs any day	18:33
NullM0dem	i have used slackware for almost 8 years, im used to it	18:33
tank-man	whats this armedslack?	18:34
johnx	to each his own :)	18:34
NullM0dem	slackware for ARM	18:34
* johnx has been using Debian and/or Ubuntu for close to 10		18:34
NullM0dem	yes	18:34
NullM0dem	ive used debian based system for about 3	18:34
johnx	with any luck we can factor out the modifications into a nice distro agnostic sh script	18:34
johnx	that would pretty much be the best of both worlds	18:34
NullM0dem	:)	18:35
NullM0dem	i cannot imagine ubuntu on my n810...	18:36
johnx	think Debian, but with different package versions	18:36
johnx	now ubuntu + a full gnome desktop would be a little crazy	18:37
NullM0dem	iv'e tried, i stil cant shake that 512 meg requirement	18:37
johnx	but no more crazy than debian + a full gnome desktop	18:37
johnx	aaah...512MB for the ubuntu mobile UI?	18:37
NullM0dem	yeah	18:37
johnx	yeah, that's pretty steep	18:38
johnx	that's just not in the cards I think	18:38
NullM0dem	I have intstalled slack / debian with X on machines with 64 megs f ram	18:38
johnx	me too	18:38
johnx	it's on my zaurus	18:38
NullM0dem	Iv'e always wanted a zaurus but opted for the n810	18:39
johnx	the CPU in the n8x0 is loads faster	18:39
johnx	but the newest zaurus had a fantastic d-pad	18:39
johnx	I'm glad to have both :)	18:39
johnx	fantastic d-pad and keyboard	18:40
qwerty12	to me, zaurus's look more cool. But I've never tried one.	18:40
NullM0dem	I liked the mini laptop version c3000 i think it was	18:40
johnx	yeah, I have a C1000 (C3000 minus the micro drive)	18:40
NullM0dem	im tempted by the lifebook U series as well	18:40
MangoFusion	that looked a bit crazy. couldn't imagine typing on that ;)	18:40
johnx	small x86 systems do nothing for me O_o	18:40
johnx	MangoFusion, the zaurus?	18:40
MangoFusion	yes the clamshell one	18:41
lcuk	unless something drastic changes now i think ill have this nokia for a long while	18:41
johnx	you can thumb type or type with index and middle fingers	18:41
MangoFusion	though it looked cool in any case	18:41
lcuk	but whatever i get will have to have linux on it :)	18:42
NullM0dem	I would run scratchbox on the fujitsu U810 to compile apps for my nokia n810...	18:42
johnx	the best thing ever would be N800 hardware wedged in a zaurus case with zaurus keyboard and n800 screen :)	18:42
qwerty12	What about N810 screen instead...	18:43
johnx	that would be nice	18:43
qwerty12	I find it really hard to see my N800 in sunlight :/	18:43
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johnx	me too	18:43
johnx	it's actually worse than my zaurus I think	18:43
lcuk	i think im moving to fulltime compilation on 810. scratchbox within vmware feels like a cludge, i can use the editors within windows and a putty terminal and its all good	18:44
qwerty12	johnx, it's worse than my 176x144 phone :/	18:44
johnx	lcuk, which is funny, cause I'm trying to move away from native compilation to anything else	18:44
johnx	qwerty12, phones are designed to be used outside almost all the time...	18:44
qwerty12	True but a proper screen would have still been nice. My PPC had a nicer screen.	18:45
lcuk	but for my own programs i know im in control of what happens, and depending on the file im compiling i can be running app within a couple of seconds, it saves a whole bunch of copying and moving to get it running	18:45
johnx	I want a zaurus 6000 to play with :(	18:45
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johnx	lcuk, oh definitely. no argument here. we just have opposite use cases and both initially took the path of least resistance	18:46
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lcuk	yer, i prefer not to build other peoples programs and will enjoy lounging on the beach coding next week :)	18:47
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lcuk	i think my amiga used to take longer to compile and build	18:48
johnx	I'm glad that I was wrong :)	18:49
lcuk	wrong about?	18:49
johnx	native compiling being a bad idea for you	18:49
lcuk	yer, its deffo not. i just have to be careful not to build monster source and im ok	18:50
johnx	qwerty12, did you at any point end up with two panels running during apt-get install osso-diablo-whatever	18:51
qwerty12	yes, it goes after reboot	18:51
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johnx	I should take a screenshot	18:51
johnx	"why diablo is twice as good as chinook!" :)	18:52
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lcuk	johnx, this module kills compilating (takes 4 minutes) everything else is done in a couple of seconds	18:53
lcuk	http://pastebin.com/d27929083	18:53
NullM0dem	is diablo a new environment for the NIT ?	18:53
lcuk	yer, son of chinook	18:54
johnx	basically a point release of OS2008	18:54
johnx	maemo 4.1	18:54
johnx	OS2008 "feature upgrade" by Nokia's reckoning	18:54
NullM0dem	i should try it	18:54
* qwerty12 cant wait for proper diablo sbox environment		18:54
johnx	lcuk, that looks pretty insane	18:55
johnx	is that "anything in the name of speed"?	18:55
NullM0dem	fonts!	18:55
lcuk	yer, it was a test to make brushes	18:55
lcuk	fonts are ttf ;)	18:55
NullM0dem	ah	18:55
johnx	maybe use an xpm?	18:55
NullM0dem	:) thats right	18:55
lcuk	these are custom glyphs but i wanted them coded inline	18:55
johnx	you can #include an xpm, IIRC	18:56
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lcuk	well i could have done them as static char asd[] = { ..... } declarations, but then i would have to seperate the actual glyph data from its definition	18:57
lcuk	if it put them into a single function call i get to keep them together and can simply use as required	18:57
johnx	your choice of course, and I'm sure you're far more familiar with this than me at this point :)	18:58
* RST38h finally fixed light gun simulation in iNES		18:58
lcuk	its ok, ive not used it, it was a test and will be using alternative methods	18:58
RST38h	Should be really cool on a tablet =)~~	18:58
RST38h	DuckHunt with your finger, etc	18:59
lcuk	light gun sim? i thought light guns didnt work anymore with scanless tvs	18:59
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lcuk	oooooh now thats good	18:59
johnx	duckpoke?	18:59
qwerty12	>.<	19:00
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johnx	qwerty12, so it does boot if you don't flash the kernel or modules, right?	19:02
qwerty12	yes	19:02
qwerty12	I only found out about flashing the kernel afterwards	19:03
johnx	great	19:03
qwerty12	No one else seemed to pick it up either :/	19:03
johnx	I'll load initrd and kernel from flasher then	19:03
johnx	I really need a screenie of this desktop first though :)	19:03
qwerty12	cool	19:03
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, I looked at flash-and-boot and ran screaming after I first installed it.	19:04
GeneralAntilles	Largely because I still needed to dual-boot.	19:04
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qwerty12	I only realised about it when jott mentioned the initfs deb file	19:04
johnx	gah...nevermind with the screenie	19:04
johnx	don't want to install any software at this point :/	19:04
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qwerty12	use a camera :/	19:04
qwerty12	not exactly a screenshot but...	19:05
GeneralAntilles	x11vnc	19:05
johnx	too late	19:05
qwerty12	still installing something	19:05
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johnx	omgwtfboots!	19:06
qwerty12	?	19:06
johnx	it works	19:06
qwerty12	the kernel and initfs?	19:06
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qwerty12	or diablo in general :P	19:07
johnx	nah, just the system in general	19:07
johnx	diablo	19:07
johnx	I'll take a clean backup now with flasher :)	19:07
qwerty12	ah :). after compiling synaptic, I'll start work on creating initfs	19:07
qwerty12	atm, ipv6 support cannot be enabled due to using chinook initfs	19:07
qwerty12	If I've got Diablo kernel installed, the modules should insmod fine right?	19:08
johnx	diablo kernel + chinook modules?	19:08
johnx	no guarantee	19:08
qwerty12	no, diablo modules :)	19:09
qwerty12	I'm inserting them into a chinook initfs	19:09
johnx	ah, yeah, that should work	19:09
qwerty12	cool	19:10
* qwerty12 thinks about applying some of Marius apt patches to my desktop computer's apt		19:12
johnx	ah, such as?	19:13
qwerty12	"- mmap.patch [**]	19:13
qwerty12	Make it work in filesystems that don't support writable mmaps.	19:13
qwerty12	- ignoretimeconflict.patch	19:13
qwerty12	Don't fail to add or use keys when the clock is wrong.	19:13
qwerty12	"	19:13
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, got any plans to update Diablo section :P	19:14
lcuk	\o/ niceeeeee full rebuild now takes 59seconds	19:14
johnx	qwerty12, have an arm 0xFFFF binary handy?	19:17
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qwerty12	johnx, no sorry. mine got deleted with diablo flash	19:17
johnx	:(	19:18
qwerty12	you want me to compile one?	19:18
johnx	need to fix my scratcbox first	19:18
johnx	this will have to wait until tomorrow I guess	19:18
johnx	ah, you offered?	19:18
qwerty12	yep :)	19:18
johnx	ah, if it's not too much trouble :D	19:18
qwerty12	Ok, give me a sec	19:18
qwerty12	version 0.3.2 will be ok right? i don't have time to pull from latest svn/whatever	19:19
johnx	sure	19:19
lcuk	hmmm, its 5:18pm now, if i compile a file on windows and send it back with scp on the device its 5:18pm, but if on the device i make all the .o files at 6:18pm, any idea how to fix (both device show same time on desktop clocks)	19:19
qwerty12	johnx, dcc ok? or name your favourite upload site.	19:21
johnx	dcc is fine I think	19:21
johnx	we'll have to see how it likes my NAT	19:21
qwerty12	ok, mine may not be come think of it :p	19:21
qwerty12	ooh, it worked :D	19:21
johnx	woo!	19:21
johnx	I didn't know I had auto-receive on O_o	19:22
* qwerty12 is sending virus		19:22
qwerty12	johnx autorecieves	19:22
qwerty12	muhahahahaha	19:22
johnx	you spelled it wrong :P	19:22
NullM0dem	lol	19:22
qwerty12	lol	19:22
johnx	I didn't muck with the settings either	19:23
johnx	I think xchat does that by default O_o	19:23
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johnx	lcuk, could it have something to do with timezones?	19:24
johnx	are you one off from UTC right now?	19:24
lcuk	im thinking so, on the console of 810 i type date and i get: Sun May 11 17:20:02 BST 2008	19:25
lcuk	i think its british summer time thats screwing me over	19:25
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qwerty12	johnx, I've got binary of 0xffff w/out libusb dependency if you want it (no idea what difference it makes on tablet though)	19:26
johnx	I don't think it will matter, I would assume	19:26
johnx	I'll try this one first	19:27
qwerty12	yeah	19:27
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qwerty12	I think I figured out how to change initfs logo.	19:28
johnx	it's been known for a while I thought	19:29
qwerty12	I didn't know how. I asked and I never got any answers :/	19:29
johnx	the first Nokia logo, right?	19:29
qwerty12	yeah :)	19:29
johnx	yeah, it's in this really old "custom bootsplash" thread I thought	19:30
johnx	maybe I'm not remembering right though	19:30
qwerty12	I'm not saying it's new, nah it wasn't there, thats for the logo after initfs	19:30
johnx	well it talked about both	19:30
qwerty12	I don't remember that	19:31
johnx	I had a neat little debian logo that changed into a debian swirl halfway through :)	19:31
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RST38h	qwerty: If you find out too much, Nokia will have to hire somebody to liquidate you =)	19:34
qwerty12	lmao, I better run :p	19:34
qwerty12	anyone with diablo and ipv6 support here?	19:35
RST38h	btw, any news on agps performance in diablo?=)	19:36
johnx	extracting rootfs w/ 0xFFFF is slooooow :/	19:37
qwerty12	RST38h, ask Aisu at ITT, he has installed it on N810	19:37
johnx	qwerty12, you and I need to find a way to get into the next device program :)	19:37
qwerty12	johnx, blackmail nokia :P :)	19:38
johnx	tell me how that works for you :P	19:38
qwerty12	ok, just pay my fares to Helsinki/Espoo :p	19:38
johnx	sure what size cardboard box do you fit in?	19:39
RST38h	qwerty: yep, just seen his post	19:39
qwerty12	johnx, extra extra large lol :p	19:39
johnx	maybe you can just blackmail the guy who works at your local nokia store? "I know that you secretly own an iPhone...let's talk..."	19:42
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qwerty12	lol, round in this part of London, most people cant afford iPhones :p	19:42
qwerty12	i've got both initfs's saved. I'm gonna have a bit of fun	19:43
johnx	still waiting on my rootfs backup	19:43
johnx	how is it slower to read it then to write it O_o	19:43
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qwerty12	lol	19:43
qwerty12	I once had a Sony Ericsson mem stick that was like that	19:44
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johnx	I hate memory stick	19:45
qwerty12	Same here	19:45
johnx	stupid sony and their proprietary ridiculousness	19:45
qwerty12	I love SD cards and I'm glad N800 uses 2 full size ones	19:45
johnx	I'm mostly surprised that it outlived xD memory	19:45
qwerty12	I don't xD ever really took off as well, I think only Fuji and Olympus supported it the most?	19:46
johnx	heh...and now they're back to SD, right?	19:47
qwerty12	No idea, haven't looked at a camera in years :/	19:47
johnx	I was looking at a canon recently, but only looking for now :/	19:47
qwerty12	I hardly take any pics come think of it	19:48
RST38h	I love the idea of all types of flash cards but SD dying terrible death	19:48
RST38h	Would be the day...	19:48
johnx	can I keep CF?	19:48
johnx	I really like it	19:48
johnx	you can use a CF->SDHC adapter if you want	19:48
Navi	I like CF.	19:49
Navi	Keeps my CF to IDE comfy	19:49
Navi	johnx, any eta to the debian release?	19:50
johnx	maybe sometime this week?	19:50
Navi	Would give me a reason to turn on my N800	19:50
johnx	I think sound is doable and it's a pain having multiple versions out so I'd like this to be kind of a "most stuff works" release	19:51
Navi	heh	19:51
Navi	Why would you have multiple versions?	19:52
johnx	well if I release before sound works, then I'll have to do another release in a couple weeks or whatever	19:52
johnx	I don't really see the point	19:52
Navi	mmk	19:52
johnx	and also, I've been working my *$% off lately, so I'll probably do something when I have time off later this week	19:53
johnx	yeah, 13th and 14th off...maybe something will happen then	19:54
johnx	or maybe it won't...maybe I'll just sleep :)	19:54
Navi	!@#	19:55
johnx	eh?	19:56
Navi	You should sleep AND work on it at the same time.	19:56
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Navi	And Quim on the 13th, yay	19:56
johnx	aaah...maybe I should get it done to announce then	19:56
johnx	good motivation :)	19:57
Navi	Ha	19:57
Navi	QUIM GUEZZ WAT I RELZED NU DEB LOL	19:57
johnx	actually, it would just be nice to have something concrete to point to when the inevitable questions come up	19:58
johnx	I should further my knowledge of hildon on zaurus as well...	19:58
Navi	heh	19:59
qwerty12	How to save raw rgb in gimp?	19:59
johnx	like a bmp?	19:59
qwerty12	not sure, all I know is that i have to make raw rgb	20:00
johnx	aaah	20:00
johnx	for your initfs image?	20:00
qwerty12	yes	20:00
johnx	image = picture in this case	20:00
qwerty12	hehe	20:00
qwerty12	I'm gonna take a guess, I'm testing it out on my tablet before I release anyway	20:00
qwerty12	No, I did it wrong :/	20:02
Navi	old GIMP can't save raw files	20:04
Navi	at least, it doesn't have very much support for it	20:04
qwerty12	Is 2.4.5 old?	20:04
Navi	I guess :P	20:04
qwerty12	damn	20:04
Navi	It's the latest stable	20:04
Navi	I think	20:05
Navi	Dev branch GIMP can, however unstable it may be	20:05
qwerty12	Thanks	20:05
Navi	It can do a lot of stuff	20:05
Navi	(CYMK)	20:05
johnx	qwerty12, run file and tell me what it says about the file	20:06
qwerty12	Which one lol,it's kinda messed up :/	20:07
Navi	[12:00:19] <johnx> for your initfs image? <- bad pun	20:07
johnx	not really	20:07
Navi	er	20:07
Navi	s/bad/good/	20:07
johnx	I'm actually that tired :)	20:07
Navi	>_>	20:07
johnx	tired enough to try and backup the rootfs to a directory on the rootfs :/	20:07
Navi	lol	20:08
johnx	not my fault though. how was I supposed to know that 0xFFFF would try and save temp files in the CWD	20:08
Navi	qwerty12, do you use gmail?	20:10
qwerty12	yes	20:10
Navi	mmk	20:10
Navi	I think I'm going to start forwarding all of my messages to my home box	20:12
Navi	instead of my gmail account	20:12
johnx	I believe "lulz" is appropriate: bug: You can't pick your home city any more :)	20:12
Navi	luls	20:13
Navi	in Diablo II: Lord of Destruction?	20:13
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johnx	Diablo: only for people in London	20:14
qwerty12	noo, what's gonna happen?	20:14
Navi	We'll have to start typing like the brits	20:14
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Navi	and talk with an English accent when using our N8X0s	20:14
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Navi	or Nokia will get you	20:15
johnx	actually "clocks" was behaving completely b0rken	20:15
qwerty12	even I don't speak with my Yorkshire accent much anymore	20:15
johnx	rebooting to see if it was connected to be running out of space on flash	20:15
* johnx lost his accent :/		20:15
johnx	n/m, false alarm	20:16
johnx	just related to almost filling up /	20:16
Navi	lol	20:16
johnx	I'd still call it a bug	20:16
johnx	just more of a corner case	20:16
qwerty12	Bye	20:18
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AStorm	hello	20:21
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AStorm	how do I disable "Presence" in tray?	20:21
johnx	disable all your accounts?	20:21
AStorm	(want to use pidgin instead)	20:21
AStorm	johnx: ah, right	20:21
AStorm	:P	20:22
johnx	well Diablo didn't add any useful maps :/	20:22
Navi	http://www.flickr.com/photos/qole2/2481737462	20:22
Navi	Doesn't look that bad	20:22
johnx	it's not that bad as long as it doesn't inherit the hildon gtk theme	20:23
Navi	oh, right	20:23
johnx	and I ran it with a 30px top bar and a 56px (or so) sidebar	20:24
Navi	:/	20:25
johnx	which doesn't really help...	20:25
johnx	it's still usable like that though	20:25
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Navi	I'd probably prefer it too :P	20:27
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johnx	google maps is still painfully slow :/	20:28
Navi	Old browser engine	20:30
johnx	the rest of the desktop seems a little more responsive somehow though	20:30
Navi	Moving applets is much more responsive	20:30
Navi	used to be a huge pain	20:30
Navi	as well as resizing	20:31
johnx	yeah, and theoretically these are mostly debug builds too	20:31
johnx	do chinook "click to install"s still work?	20:31
Navi	I broke the browser trying to install the svn browser build	20:32
Navi	on Diablo, so bleh	20:32
johnx	well, I'll see in a sec	20:32
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johnx	well besides the fact that it's ungodly slow, at least microb is less buggy	20:36
RST38h	Navi: Still no "lock applets" option? =)	20:40
GeneralAntilles	Chinook and Diablo stuff are backwards and forwards compatible.	20:41
GeneralAntilles	No, RST38h.	20:41
GeneralAntilles	People should stop bitching about that and just add it themselves.	20:41
RST38h	Pity.	20:41
GeneralAntilles	hildon-desktop is open source.	20:41
RST38h	No GPS improvements?	20:42
GeneralAntilles	Yes, GPS improvements	20:42
GeneralAntilles	AGPS, supposedly	20:42
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GeneralAntilles	Don't have an N810 to test it, though.	20:42
johnx	and my two "favorite" browser bugs are fixed	20:43
* RST38h has seen agps-related changes in the log, but Aisu reports he has not noticed any improvements		20:43
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GeneralAntilles	Keyboard behavior is broken as shit in this release.	20:43
RST38h	?	20:43
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johnx	tap+hold behaves better now, and fullscreen keyboard enter doesn't disregard your input, then send an enter	20:44
GeneralAntilles	In MicroB, rather.	20:45
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GeneralAntilles	The fullscreen keyboard is much better behaved all around.	20:45
GeneralAntilles	Enter actually works	20:45
GeneralAntilles	as opposed to pressing enter, then having to bring up the vkb to press enter again to actually send. . . . :\	20:45
johnx	also, smb feels faster	20:46
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johnx	I'll torture test it later	20:46
timely	johnx: fwiw you should be able to upload from bluetooth in the browser	20:47
johnx	hey that's pretty cool	20:47
johnx	sadly my phone is IRDA only :/	20:47
timely	if it doesn't work, it's my fault, and i'd like to know asap	20:47
johnx	I can try and test it with my desktop later	20:48
johnx	anything else I should poke+prod?	20:48
timely	i'm trying to work on the release notes	20:48
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timely	sadly i have slightly more urgent real world challenges	20:48
timely	i can probably give you a url to my raw data if you want to browse through it	20:48
timely	but from experience, the raw data is usually 99.9% useless	20:49
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johnx	I'll give it a look if it's no trouble for you	20:49
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eichi	hello	20:51
eichi	someone uses the daliclock as clock? how can i do, to make the clock allway light up in the night?	20:51
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johnx	hi	20:51
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johnx	is this on OS2008?	20:52
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eichi	yes	20:54
johnx	under control panel -> display -> select display lit while charging	20:55
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timely	gimme a bit	20:59
johnx	sure...uhm...I think the app manager is going to annoy me in diablo	21:00
johnx	it seems to be automagically removing any lines with chinook in the name...	21:01
qwerty12_N800	i'm using chinook extras fine	21:02
timely	hrm	21:02
timely	technically application manager is open source	21:02
johnx	qwerty12_N800, what happens if you open app manager and try to install something?	21:02
timely	i can't remember which place has it	21:02
johnx	timely, I was just thinking the same thing	21:02
johnx	I know where its svn repo is	21:02
qwerty12_N800	johnx, it does it fine	21:02
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qwerty12_N800	+1	21:02
johnx	or ITT knows and so google knows and so I know :)	21:02
timely	johnx: i can look at the sources, but i'd rather do the other things i need to do :)	21:03
johnx	timely, don't worry about my blathering	21:03
johnx	do what you need to	21:03
qwerty12_N800	timely, put in my quick mod to remove legal msg (line commenting)	21:03
qwerty12_N800	:p	21:03
johnx	I predict that we'll start to see more people take proper advantage of having the source soon	21:04
eichi	someone uses the QwikScript input methode? after installing..how can i use it?	21:06
johnx	eichi, have you read the thread on ITT?	21:06
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qwerty12_N800	Pres s the thing under shift	21:06
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qwerty12_N800	and go input method	21:06
qwerty12_N800	you may need ti	21:06
eichi	johnx, no...itt?	21:06
johnx	internettablettalk.com/forums	21:07
qwerty12_N800	to kill hildon input method 1st	21:07
johnx	or just reboot	21:07
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eichi	i installed it and can see it on the input methode menu. but cant choose it	21:15
johnx	have you rebooted since installing it?	21:16
qwerty12_N800	you may need qt libraries (not sure9	21:18
qwerty12_N800	s/9/)	21:18
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eichi	johnx, yes, i did	21:19
johnx	no ideas then	21:19
johnx	the thread is here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19869&highlight=qwikscript	21:19
johnx	I need to catch some sleep though	21:19
johnx	I'll look more at diablo stuff and debian after work tomorrow	21:20
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eichi	i got it! just select the input language to englisch_UK	21:39
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lcuk	cor blimey the doctors daughter is a bit of alright!	22:00
qwerty12_N800	lmao	22:04
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Jaffa	lcuk: she was, wasn't she? Peter Davison's daughter too, which is quite cool.	22:52
lcuk	good to see we have a way out of the regeneration limit	22:53
* Jaffa hasn't checked Outpost Gallifrey yet to see if there are any better theories than the naff one I came up with for my wife as to why she didn't fully regnerate.		22:53
lcuk	cos shes better looking than any doctor ;)	22:54
Jaffa	heh	22:54
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Capn_Fish	johnx: You here?	22:54
lcuk	what was your theory then	22:55
Jaffa	lcuk: some kind of "well, it was only a flesh wound so a full regeneration, just a bit of healing was necessary". Doesn't really hold water, tho'.	22:55
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KotCzarny	http://www.nslu2-linux.org/wiki/HowTo/AddVGAAdapter	22:56
KotCzarny	hrm	22:56
lcuk	i couldn't help but think if she got a mouth that sucks like a dyson shes in the wrong profession	22:56
lcuk	mornin kot	22:56
rm_you	Capn_Fish: he appears to be asleep according to AIM away, if that can be trusted :)	22:57
KotCzarny	hi hi	22:57
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Cptnodegard	bah not you again...damn nickalert tripper	22:58
Capn_Fish	rm_you: Thanks. I don't know what his timezone is, so I'm just popping semi-randomly :)	22:58
rm_you	heh	22:58
rm_you	he's in Japan	22:58
Capn_Fish	Joy.	22:58
rm_you	though the hours he keeps sometimes should mesh with our hemisphere	22:59
Capn_Fish	Thanks. I'll try to catch him when he may be awake	22:59
rm_you	what did you need him for? :P	22:59
Capn_Fish	Just to chat about his Debian builds and stuff	22:59
rm_you	ah	22:59
rm_you	we work on a lot of the same projects, so often I can answer questions and such	22:59
Capn_Fish	I was mostly wondering when it'll be ready for me to try :D	23:00
rm_you	heh	23:00
Capn_Fish	I got an N810 assuming I could put Angstrom/Debian on it, you see	23:00
rm_you	hopefully he releases his second awesome version soon :)	23:00
rm_you	ah, lol	23:00
Capn_Fish	OS2008 is relatively lousy	23:00
rm_you	did you used to use a zaurus?	23:01
Capn_Fish	Won't it be v3	23:01
rm_you	maybe	23:01
rm_you	i lost track	23:01
Capn_Fish	I still use my Z more than my N810	23:01
rm_you	which one do you have?	23:01
Capn_Fish	I have a C750 and a C3100	23:01
rm_you	ah	23:01
Capn_Fish	The 750 is mostly unused, though	23:01
rm_you	i always kind of wanted a C3x00	23:01
Capn_Fish	What do you have?	23:01
rm_you	the only one i ever owned was a collie	23:01
rm_you	SL5500	23:01
Capn_Fish	Ah.	23:01
Capn_Fish	I know :)	23:01
rm_you	yeah :)	23:02
rm_you	i miss it :/	23:02
Capn_Fish	I'm actually rebuilding Angstrom for it now	23:02
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rm_you	but not much	23:02
rm_you	it had... problems	23:02
Capn_Fish	The Z owns the N8x0 ATM due to the number of working OSs	23:02
Capn_Fish	"Real" OSs	23:02
rm_you	heh	23:02
rm_you	well	23:02
Capn_Fish	Meaning straight-up X11, being able to choose your WM, etc.	23:03
lcuk	i didnt get my 810 to keep swapping OSes	23:03
KotCzarny	why do you need number of os's ?	23:03
glass	all you need is one good os	23:03
rm_you	my zaurus never worked as well (or as fast, obviously) as my n800	23:03
KotCzarny	you need only one	23:03
KotCzarny	:)	23:03
Capn_Fish	OK, then the N810 has no good OS, IMO	23:03
Capn_Fish	Not to start a flamewar	23:03
rm_you	i don't mind ITOS	23:03
rm_you	it works most of the time, which is a bonus over OpenZaurus	23:04
lcuk	os2008 is not suited to your needs, fine no problem :) a lot of people are happy though	23:04
rm_you	I never got to use Angstrom really	23:04
Capn_Fish	I'd give up some things working on the N810 for more control	23:04
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Capn_Fish	I've been using Angstrom for a while, and while the default images are lousy, I made a custom one that is pretty standard Linux-like	23:05
lcuk	so, what do you want to do on your 810?	23:06
lopz	re	23:06
Capn_Fish	Coding, OS hacking, some games, mobile internet access,etc.	23:06
rm_you	coding is the only thing i haven't managed yet	23:07
Capn_Fish	With a decent WM and CLI access	23:07
rm_you	well, in any compiled languages	23:07
lcuk	can't you do all that already? hell, even me as a windows user and linux n00b is compiling direct on device and having a whale of a time	23:07
Capn_Fish	And no Hildon	23:07
rm_you	a more flexible WM would be nice	23:07
KotCzarny	:)	23:07
Capn_Fish	EvilWM FTW!	23:07
Capn_Fish	Makes great use of your precious embedded screen real estate	23:07
lcuk	theres a hardware fullscreen button for a reason	23:08
KotCzarny	at 225dpi it doesn't matter much	23:08
KotCzarny	:)	23:08
Capn_Fish	True.	23:08
Capn_Fish	To me it does, but I'm weird	23:08
KotCzarny	and i second lcuk's opinion on fullscreen	23:08
KotCzarny	:)	23:08
Capn_Fish	It's also nice to actually be able to move windows around the screen and save on RAM	23:09
lcuk	just think of hildon as a pretty front end to all that raw power lurking underneath	23:09
Capn_Fish	Pretty frontends have never been my thing :)	23:09
KotCzarny	i think they should have included hw alt-tab like button	23:09
rm_you	i just want the maemo-hackers xterm back >_>	23:09
rm_you	i miss that	23:09
KotCzarny	to keep people from b*tching	23:10
KotCzarny	:)	23:10
Capn_Fish	THe keymapping is another thing the Z has over the N810	23:10
lcuk	KotCzarny, cant that be setup?	23:10
glass	KotCzarny: isn't pressing home for a long time like it	23:10
kpel	what's the easiest way to gain root on an N800 running OS2008 ?	23:10
lcuk	grab app list, move to next and open with your doofer	23:10
Capn_Fish	kpel: install gainroot	23:10
glass	KotCzarny: like 'tabbing'.. the same way it's doen on series60.. pressing app key for a long perioid gets you an app list of running stuff	23:10
kpel	i have gainroot installed but doesn't seem to work	23:10
Capn_Fish	THen just do a "sudo gainroot", and voila	23:10
kpel	will try again, thanks	23:11
Capn_Fish	np	23:11
KotCzarny	glass, you need to move your finger to dpad from 'home'	23:11
Capn_Fish	Best of luxk	23:11
Capn_Fish	*luck	23:11
glass	KotCzarny: hw buttons tend to need that	23:11
KotCzarny	i like alt-tab functionality to quickly switch between 2 apps	23:11
Capn_Fish	I agree	23:11
lcuk	wheres alt-tab on your 800 :P	23:11
Capn_Fish	Or ctrl-alt-m	23:12
glass	KotCzarny: hmm. doesnt pressing it once scroll between running apps?	23:12
KotCzarny	lcuk: i can map some hw button probably	23:12
glass	KotCzarny: like it does on s60?	23:12
Capn_Fish	Where are the keymaps on the N810?	23:12
lcuk	yer, i know and on a real bt keyboard it would be mega useful	23:12
KotCzarny	glass: tbh i haven't really checked, but you still need to do 2 clicks at least	23:12
glass	KotCzarny: press it long, up comes the list, short taps go through apps and another long press selects	23:12
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kpel	Capn_Fish: i get "cal_read_block(r&d_mode): size zero, block not found? Enable RD mode if you want to break your device"	23:13
practisevoodoo	any way to convert a maemo map tracking file to a .kmz?	23:13
Capn_Fish	kpel: Do you have an N810?	23:13
GeneralAntilles	rm_you, sse2.net/xterm	23:14
kpel	Capn_Fish: nope, as i said above it's a N800 running OS2008	23:14
rm_you	:P	23:14
Capn_Fish	kpel: THere was a thread about corrupted NAND	23:14
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: <3	23:14
Capn_Fish	rm_you: I typed before I thought :(	23:14
kpel	gainroot used to work before the last os2008 update	23:14
kpel	Capn_Fish: is the corruption repairable?	23:14
Capn_Fish	Maybe corruption is an issue?	23:14
rm_you	?	23:14
Capn_Fish	hang on	23:14
Capn_Fish	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18043&highlight=corrupt	23:15
Capn_Fish	Check that thread	23:15
kpel	ok thanks	23:15
rm_you	who owns sse2.net?	23:15
Capn_Fish	I don't know if it applies, but it's worth a shot	23:16
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KotCzarny	jott, probably	23:16
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: do i need to install ALL of these packages?	23:16
GeneralAntilles	Yes	23:16
rm_you	also, is it going to replace my old xterm or add another?	23:16
GeneralAntilles	Replace.	23:16
rm_you	cool.	23:17
Capn_Fish	What's different about this XTerm?	23:17
GeneralAntilles	It's better.	23:18
rm_you	well, better ctrl-* functionality, for one	23:18
GeneralAntilles	Not hindered by Nokia's retarded UI spec	23:19
Capn_Fish	Hmm...Sounds good	23:19
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GeneralAntilles	I still don't understand why people always clamber for more bundled stuff from Nokia. . . .	23:19
GeneralAntilles	Nokia's bundled stuff always sucks. :\	23:20
Capn_Fish	Agreed.	23:20
KotCzarny	yup, wnokryptia	23:20
KotCzarny	etc	23:20
KotCzarny	;)	23:20
Capn_Fish	I'm clamoring for more Debian	23:20
Capn_Fish	:)	23:20
rm_you	sweeeet	23:20
rm_you	<3	23:21
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kpel	GeneralAntilles: because nokia's stuff is officialy supported	23:23
GeneralAntilles	Pfft	23:24
GeneralAntilles	That's another reason not to	23:24
GeneralAntilles	Officially supported just means updates only come out once every 6 months.	23:24
kpel	so if something goes wrong, nokia assuems liability. with the unsupported stuff the user will get just some comforting words from us here :)	23:24
kpel	6 months is a long time?	23:24
KotCzarny	and my programs are officially supported by me	23:25
KotCzarny	:)	23:25
Capn_Fish	Mine too!	23:25
Capn_Fish	Until I lose interest	23:25
GeneralAntilles	Compared to the open source stuff's update cycles.	23:25
KotCzarny	true	23:25
kpel	lol, word	23:25
KotCzarny	:)	23:25
GeneralAntilles	It also means stupid bugs that should never have been introduced don't get fixed for 3 years.	23:25
Capn_Fish	I agree. 6 months on an OSS device is much too long	23:25
GeneralAntilles	No, as a longtime tablet owner and user, bundling is not a desirable thing.	23:25
kpel	GeneralAntilles: if i recall correctly, a release cycle of 6 motnhs was described as a good thing(TM) in the cathedral and the bazaar.	23:26
GeneralAntilles	and, really, I don't think you understand exactly how retarded the UI spec is.	23:26
kpel	i mean, i don't think it's bad that thr apache project doesn't make a new release every week.	23:26
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KotCzarny	release cycle doesn't matter as long there is an update repository	23:26
KotCzarny	:)	23:26
KotCzarny	updated often	23:26
KotCzarny	(quick bug fixes)	23:27
kpel	GeneralAntilles: as long as i'm covered by the manufacturer's warranty i don't really care about the specs. i don't pay omney to care, i pay money to enjoy my toy :)	23:27
lcuk	this new update system should allow that	23:27
lcuk	or so i believe	23:27
GeneralAntilles	kpel, no, fast release cycles aren't inherently a good or bad thing	23:27
kpel	if all this was about a cheap pc that would be another story	23:27
GeneralAntilles	but apache also has a reasonably stable product	23:27
GeneralAntilles	Nokia does not	23:27
rm_you	fast release cycles of CRAP < slow release cycles of GOOD	23:28
GeneralAntilles	Therefor frequent updates to close as many bugs as possible are desirable.	23:28
kpel	GeneralAntilles: what wasn't stable with the latest official nokia release?	23:28
rm_you	admittedly, Nokia does a pretty good job with releases IMO	23:28
GeneralAntilles	Lots and lots and lots and lots.	23:28
kpel	rm_you: agreed	23:28
Capn_Fish	I agree. 6 months on an OSS device is much too long	23:28
Capn_Fish	But fast release cycles of crap > slow release cycles of crap	23:28
Capn_Fish	Sorry, hit up	23:28
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, it certainly makes it technically feasible, but it doesn't mean that it'll actually happen. :(	23:28
kpel	GeneralAntilles: the only annoying thing i found in nokia's official stuff is that the exit command in the xterm causes an infinite loop	23:29
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GeneralAntilles	Exactly, Capn_Fish.	23:29
GeneralAntilles	You haven't been using it very long then?	23:29
Capn_Fish	Me?	23:29
kpel	GeneralAntilles: only since september	23:29
Capn_Fish	nm	23:29
kpel	since the os2007 days	23:29
GeneralAntilles	kpel, I dunno, then you either haven't been paying attention or don't use your device very much. :\	23:30
kpel	could very well be the case	23:30
lcuk	so go on gen, what probs have you noticed	23:30
Capn_Fish	Way OT, but there's no native compiler for the N810, is there?	23:31
lcuk	cos i also havent seen any actual bugs yet, i know they exist but have never effected me	23:31
lcuk	yes	23:31
lcuk	gcc	23:31
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, you're kidding, right?	23:31
lcuk	im using it right now	23:31
GeneralAntilles	The GPS is a bug. . . .	23:31
Capn_Fish	Natively?	23:31
Capn_Fish	Or cross?	23:31
kpel	ermm.. you are referring to the N810 device only?	23:32
lcuk	hardware, no amount of gpl will sort it (unless this agps does work..)	23:32
GeneralAntilles	Virtual keyboard input is incredibly buggy	23:32
lcuk	native compilation	23:32
lcuk	direct on mmc1	23:32
Capn_Fish	Well, all I have is an N810, so anything else isn't of much use to me	23:32
GeneralAntilles	Erm, I'm not arguing for GPL lcuk	23:32
Capn_Fish	lcuk: Where did you obtain this native compiler?	23:32
GeneralAntilles	just that Nokia ships buggy software	23:32
KotCzarny	capn: apt-get	23:32
KotCzarny	:)	23:32
lcuk	maemo-extras i believe	23:32
lcuk	ill just pop up my repos, i havent got many	23:33
GeneralAntilles	The "Map" application is one giant bug	23:33
kpel	GeneralAntilles: i agree that there are bugs. but that's a long way from saying that product X is unstable.	23:33
GeneralAntilles	bundled xterm is another giant bug	23:33
lcuk	hum, will apt-cache list which repo a package is currently reporting from?	23:34
GeneralAntilles	Application manager in Chinook crashes ALL THE TIME	23:34
lcuk	crashes?	23:34
kpel	i find that most bugs are annoying (but still unacceptable) not really showstoppers	23:34
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, just search gronmayer?	23:34
qwerty12_N800	hell yes	23:34
GeneralAntilles	kpel, no, they're not show stoppers	23:34
Capn_Fish	lcuk: I have all the repos on the N810 enabled that are there	23:35
KotCzarny	lol	23:35
GeneralAntilles	but my argument is that having Nokia bundle stuff is a less than desirable solution	23:35
KotCzarny	capn, that's a recipe for a fail	23:35
kpel	i wouldn't mind nokia bundling stuff as long as it's quality stuff	23:35
KotCzarny	i have only enabled extras and canola	23:35
NullM0dem	there are howtos that recommend turing on all repos	23:35
qwerty12_N800	i did that (all repos) = instant slowdown	23:35
GeneralAntilles	kpel, by definition, it can't be.	23:35
NullM0dem	i did do it	23:35
NullM0dem	umm did not	23:36
KotCzarny	nm: those howtos are wrong	23:36
NullM0dem	i know	23:36
Capn_Fish	Yet another reason to dislike OS200x	23:36
kpel	but then again, what percentage of the opensource community would like to follow the quality process of nokia? won't it be like herding cats?	23:36
KotCzarny	capn: you can do "stupid things" in ANY os	23:36
KotCzarny	and it's your responsibility to know how to use a tool	23:36
Capn_Fish	So enabling pre-set features on a standard hardware platform is stupid?	23:37
Capn_Fish	Perhaps the OS is stupid, I should think	23:37
KotCzarny	define pre-set features	23:37
Capn_Fish	I didn't add any repos	23:37
Capn_Fish	They were there when I turned the device on for the first time	23:37
KotCzarny	ok, i thought you have enabled all repos from gronmayer	23:37
KotCzarny	:)	23:37
Capn_Fish	I just enabled them. If they put them there, how can it be stupid to enable them?	23:38
GeneralAntilles	The only repo turned off by default is Extras	23:38
GeneralAntilles	and that's fine to enable.	23:38
GeneralAntilles	"them"	23:38
GeneralAntilles	You enabled ONE	23:38
GeneralAntilles	There is no "them"	23:38
Capn_Fish	I couldn't remember	23:38
GeneralAntilles	You confused us by using "them"	23:38
Capn_Fish	My apologies	23:38
GeneralAntilles	It sounded like you went and took every repo off gronmayer. ;)	23:38
GeneralAntilles	Which is a BAD PLAN	23:39
Capn_Fish	I don't even know what gronmayer is	23:39
lcuk	then why do they exist?	23:39
qwerty12_N800	I once did...	23:39
NullM0dem	i read a howto that said that was ok, I didnt follow that step	23:39
KotCzarny	lcuk: because everyone can create a repo	23:39
qwerty12_N800	Stupid move that i did	23:39
KotCzarny	:)	23:39
KotCzarny	lcuk: even you :>	23:39
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, why do what exist?	23:39
lcuk	and so whats the problem with installing from each rpoe	23:39
lcuk	repo	23:39
KotCzarny	then convince users to add it	23:39
Capn_Fish	I know that going into a Debian (based) system and putting in every repo you can find is a bad idea	23:39
GeneralAntilles	All repos?	23:39
KotCzarny	then do stupid things	23:39
GeneralAntilles	Conflicting packages	23:39
KotCzarny	like adding conflicting packages	23:39
GeneralAntilles	Packages that replace system stuff (like the arabic and hebrew input method repos)	23:40
lcuk	then thats apt-gets problem for not having priorities surely?	23:40
GeneralAntilles	Testing repos, like extras-devel	23:40
GeneralAntilles	No, lcuk . . .	23:40
KotCzarny	lcuk, apt-get uses highest version i think	23:40
KotCzarny	from any repo it can find	23:40
KotCzarny	:)	23:40
NullM0dem	yum has a priority plugin i thnk apt may as well	23:40
GeneralAntilles	apt does	23:41
GeneralAntilles	But how the hell do you want to set that up. . . .	23:41
kpel	configuration is always a tricky bit	23:42
lcuk	put nokia at the top, if a user wants something from somewhere else that conflicts they can damn well specifically select the alternative source	23:42
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evaryont	Odd issue: When I start Music Player or Canola, they can't find any music, yet when I browse to a file directly within each, they play the file fine	23:43
kpel	weird	23:43
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, easier solution is to just not install repos you don't need.	23:43
qwerty12_N800	evaryont, check if their indexers are running	23:43
evaryont	qwerty12_N800: er, how?	23:43
lcuk	having users clicking ".install" files means its easier said than done	23:43
qwerty12_N800	metalayer-crawler for built in media player	23:44
lcuk	a user doesnt know wtf a repo is	23:44
qwerty12_N800	not really sure :/	23:44
kpel	an interesting point, lcuk	23:44
GeneralAntilles	and shouldn't have to	23:44
kpel	i've seen this even with eee users	23:44
lcuk	they either stick with default and never change, or they do the windows things and go onto the website and click install	23:44
GeneralAntilles	They should just be able to enable Extras and call it a day.	23:44
KotCzarny	good plan is to have a person to manage community repo available 24/7	23:44
KotCzarny	:)	23:44
qwerty12_N800	evaryont, run ps -la \| grep metalayer and post the output here	23:44
KotCzarny	then you don't need additional repos	23:44
kpel	they get frustrated when they read at forum xyz that they must install packages a,b,c in order to do something	23:44
evaryont	qwerty12_N800: can't, gotta run. I'll check. With Canola, though, you do a manual scan (bleh)	23:45
qwerty12_N800	:/	23:45
kpel	just upgraded om-weather using apt-get and it works fine now. good work.	23:47
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lcuk	if i am not changing anything else on my 1gb memory card i pushed into my 810 should this: mke2fs /dev/mmcblk1p1 format the device as ext2? i checked i have the correct mmc block by using df	23:59

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