IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-05-09

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zapHello, I just found that N810 has a built-in DSP. Is there any docs on it?00:20
KotCzarnydon't remember the links though00:21
KotCzarnythere is compiler for sure00:21
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* lcuk comes up for air00:25
lcukyer, ive been in my shed for too long00:26
jaskaunderwater basket weaving00:26
KotCzarnylcuk: install some air ducts?00:27
lcuknot quite:  shed = vmware installation with anjuta and gcc :)00:28
KotCzarnyi know, i know00:28
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lcuki keep seeing glints of niceness with my code00:29
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* lcuk has a target00:30
KotCzarnyarmel ?00:31
lcuklol :D00:31
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lcukim going on holiday in 1 weeks time.  in that week the only computer i will have will be my 81000:31
lcuki must have an editor i feel comfortable with in that time00:31
lcukand i know only 1 way to get me that00:32
RST38bisBuiltin keyboard?00:32
lcukby hook or by crook i will be selecting files and opening them in my base00:33
lcukno rst, i will have bt00:33
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lcuki finished the font rotating code as well i think00:34
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RST38bishehe it works!00:40
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* RST38bis did not expect xchat to support unicode00:40
KotCzarnythat was unicode?00:41
KotCzarnylooked more like cyrillic00:41
RST38bisit must have been if you could read it00:42
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KotCzarnynope, i wasn't able00:42
KotCzarnyit all showed up in weird chars00:43
KotCzarnythe ones that usually are abused by russian folks00:43
RST38biswhy did you answer failmthen? =)00:44
KotCzarnybecause i wasn't able to read it :)00:45
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RST38bisdid it show as TECT?00:46
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KotCzarnybut i don't have utf enabled client00:46
KotCzarnyso i only see latin200:46
RST38bisi wonder what happens if i turn utf off...00:47
KotCzarnyif you want to see if it worked fire up some java irc client00:48
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RST38bisjava? kill!00:48
KotCzarnyif it's only for a test?00:48
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KotCzarnyand you will gain certainity00:49
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RST38bishm, doesn't look like xchat has option to disable utf00:55
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jldiazjava chars are ucs-201:02
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jldiazwhich has no support for the whole unicode spcefication, only for the basic multilingual plane (64K symbols)01:04
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KotCzarnyshould do for russian01:04
jldiazyep :)01:04
jldiazbtw, utf8 is not properly implemented in osso-xterm (or perhaps it is busybox fault?)01:06
jldiazif you input in the shell a multibyte char and then delete it, only the last byte is deleted01:06
jldiazwhich result in a malformed unicode char01:07
jldiazusually displayed as a ? in a diamond01:07
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NullM0demwhat would cause my n810 to reboot?01:25
KotCzarnybad electronics01:26
KotCzarnybad software too01:26
NullM0demmy web browser has been crashing randomly as well01:26
NullM0demguess i need to reflash01:26
GeneralAntillesNullM0dem, something crashed that the watchdogs watch over and they restarted the device01:26
GeneralAntillesSay, Xomap or somesuch01:27
NullM0demcamera app01:27
KotCzarnycamera interface can be offending01:27
KotCzarnyi have noticed it can hung the sys01:27
NullM0demi bet01:27
KotCzarny(accessing /dev/video0)01:27
NullM0demi love it regardless :-)01:28
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tlaxhas something changed in the repositorys? I'm having trouble installing the maemo-sdk03:27
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tlaxhmm.. forget it.. I think the topic answered allready :P03:30
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tlaxwell.. not really :P03:38
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Andrewfblackanyone know why I try to flash my kernel I get message flasher: not found06:36
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GeneralAntillesDid you download the flasher?06:37
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rm_youlol GA06:46
GeneralAntilleslol urself06:47
GeneralAntillesrm_you, how'd you ponder out mediaserv NAT?06:48
GeneralAntillesI had it working before all the drives in my G4 died.06:48
GeneralAntillesNow I can't get it back.06:48
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rm_youjust set $ip06:50
rm_yousomewhere at the top of the script06:50
EruditeHermithey has anyone tried the microb svn posted on ITT?06:50
GeneralAntillesThanks, rm_you. :P06:51
* GeneralAntilles blames his router.06:51
EruditeHermitGeneralAntilles, Navi: how much better is it? Is it worthwhile switching?06:51
rm_youi really liked mediaserv/770encode06:51
rm_youand then they started mutating on me06:51
EruditeHermitGeneralAntilles: do plugins like adblock work?06:51
NaviSomeone said adblock worked06:52
GeneralAntillesPoor rm_you06:52
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GeneralAntillesadblock is absolute garbage on the tablets06:52
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GeneralAntillesYou end up behind compared to just having the ads due to the insane CPU hit.06:52
GeneralAntillesJust use adblocking hosts and css06:52
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GeneralAntillestablet-encode has really only gotten better06:52
GeneralAntillesso I'm not sure what you could bitch about. :P06:53
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NaviEruditeHermit, there are a lot of testimonials on that thread06:54
NaviIf you're fine with the browser as it is now, just stick with it06:54
EruditeHermitNavi: it is unclear about the adblock06:55
Navibut if you don't like how unresponsive it is at times, then it might be worth it.06:55
EruditeHermitNavi: and also with the scripts on that page I assume it is possible to go back?06:55
NaviYes.  Generate packages using timeless's scripts06:56
Naviand you can reinstall the original browser06:56
GeneralAntillesEruditeHermit, seriously, drop adblock and go the hosts/css route06:56
GeneralAntillesAdBlock is garbage on the tablets.06:57
EruditeHermitwhere do you get stuff to edit hosts with?06:57
EruditeHermitdoes anyone have a list of ad sites?06:57
EruditeHermitthanks guys06:58
EruditeHermitI'll try it a little later tonight06:58
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Andrewfblackhey do you guys know why if I have personal menu install and select to show under setting it doesn't show but contacts still shows and it isn't selected07:03
GeneralAntillesBecause you crashed the desktop?07:03
Andrewfblackwhat do I need to do to fix it07:04
Andrewfblackbtw personal menu has never show since I installed it07:04
GeneralAntillesHave you tried restarting?07:04
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NaviDid you go into panel settings and enable personal menu?07:06
Navilatest one07:07
Andrewfblackshould be07:07
NaviLatest one is .7-607:07
Navi-5 had crashing issues07:07
Andrewfblackdon't know where I got mine from but its still 7-407:09
AndrewfblackI"ll try 7-607:09
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Andrewfblacknope still not showing07:19
Andrewfblackso far only things to kick me in the butt on this thing is personal menu and screen rotation07:22
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rm_youlol... screen rotation is cool, but seems very useless to me07:27
rm_youwith the current layout issues, that is07:27
rm_youand theming issues07:27
KotCzarnyget nuvoclear07:27
KotCzarnyand make a wallpaper exactly 160x16007:28
rm_youGeneralAntilles: we've been over this. it's getting all crufty with that GUI crap ;P07:28
GeneralAntillesThe GUI is 100% optional. :\07:28
rm_youit adds kb :P07:28
* GeneralAntilles slap rm_you around with rational thinking.07:28
* rm_you is a CLI elitist for no real reason sometimes07:29
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rm_youand an irrational one at that :P07:29
rm_youits just... fun :)07:29
KotCzarnyi like cli because of ssh/scripting07:29
TheNewAndyI don't buy electronic devices > $200 unless I can ssh into them :)07:30
Andrewfblackok I guess I just wasn't supose to have personal menu07:30
KotCzarnyandy: how about a fridge?07:31
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TheNewAndyrules are rules07:31
KotCzarnyor vacuum cleaner?07:31
KotCzarnyor tv?07:31
rm_youI can SSH into my TV sort of :P07:33
TheNewAndyVacuums are cheap (can you ssh into a roomba?)07:33
rm_youI mean... it's only ever on the MythTV input :)07:33
rm_youIf roombas don't run linux.... then someone should make them run linux :P07:33
rm_youAlso, it *IS* possible to have openssh-server on a fridge!07:34
* rm_you looks for link07:34
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KotCzarnyyeah.. *on*07:34
rm_youmy friend did it at RIT07:34
rm_youthe link may be internal only tho07:35
TheNewAndythere was an internet fridge made by LG a while ago. I'm sure it could be hacked....07:35
rm_you... and all it really did is vend soda and snacks... but it WAS basically a refrigerator :P07:35
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GeneralAntillesLG's internet fridge makes me laugh07:37
GeneralAntillesSaw it at Best Buy a week ago07:37
TheNewAndyit probably seemed like a good idea at the time... to someone.07:37
Andrewfblackmay I should try and reflash device and try personal menu07:37
GeneralAntillesI told my mother she should buy one and stick a lazy boy in front of it to watch DVDs.07:37
KotCzarnypersonal menu is ok, at least it makes that useless contacts icon replaceabla07:38
Andrewfblackyeah but I can't get the contacts icon to go away to show personal menu07:38
KotCzarnysimply select personal menu and deselect contacts in control panel07:39
Andrewfblackyeah I did that but did work for me07:39
n800nyou have to have 3 selected maybe you had 207:40
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TheNewAndyon the topic of getting rid of the contacts thing, could I just remove it from /etc/hildon-desktop/tasknavigator.conf?07:40
TheNewAndyor would that break other stuff07:40
KotCzarnyyou can try07:40
KotCzarnybut it won't work07:40
AndrewfblackI have Personal Menu, Regular Menu, and Web selected  I tried to keep contacts and get ride of web still didn't work07:41
GeneralAntillesTheNewAndy, you can remove the .desktop07:42
GeneralAntillesBut there's no point07:42
GeneralAntillesJust replace it with Command Manager or Personal Menu07:42
TheNewAndyI don't really mind their application menu. I just have no use for the contacts (or bookmarks) menus.07:43
n800ni could lose all but personal menu07:44
Andrewfblackwhere can I find comand manager I want to see if I can get it to show07:44
GeneralAntillesUntil the taskbar becomes dynamic, there'd be no point.07:44
* GeneralAntilles iz dumbas07:45
GeneralAntillesCommand Navigator07:45
TheNewAndyI'm puzzled by the tasknavigator.conf files (in /etc and ~/.something). Removing the contacts menu from them does nothing at all.07:48
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GeneralAntillesThere's a minimum of 3 taskbar plugins.07:48
TheNewAndyI think I'm starting to see why people like Command Manager or Personal Menu :)07:49
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Andrewfblackmust be a bug for me I can't get command manager to replace contacts either07:49
KotCzarnyprobably you are doing it wrong07:50
rm_younever tried command manager. is it neat? i have been kind of wondering why nokia provided me with two entirely useless icons in what should ve very valuable menu real-estate07:50
KotCzarnycommand manager is a early version of personal menu07:50
GeneralAntillesPersonal Menu was inspired by Command Navigator07:51
NaviUses part of CM's code, or so I think I've read07:51
GeneralAntillesrm_you, context and perspective. ;)07:51
Andrewfblackwhat can you  do wrong with installing it and unclicking contacts and clicking personal menu07:51
GeneralAntillesNavi, not uses07:51
GeneralAntillesJust closely related to.07:51
n800nis therea theme that makes fontsize smaller?07:51
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, evidently something.07:52
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johnxdarn kids with their 20/20 vision! *shakes fist*08:06
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tank-manthe future is now, old man!08:24
johnxeh? speak up!08:25
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ds3the rtcomm stuff is quite nice08:40
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EruditeHermitNavi, GeneralAntilles: where on the timeless page do I have to start for making Debs? Is the beginning stuff necessary?08:43
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Livingroomsup doods08:45
qwerty12Joke, hi, it's an East London thing :p08:45
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Livingroomi c08:46
Livingroomyou english people are weird :P08:46
Livingroomyou say things like g'day mate and guten tag08:47
johnxEruditeHermit, which page is that?08:47
Livingroomand that whole CRYKEY business :)08:47
Livingroomi keed, i keed.08:47
Livingroomwag1, hmmm08:47
* Livingroom googles wag108:47
EruditeHermitjohnx: do you know how I can make debs of all the microb stuff08:47
Livingroomalso, my tablet is so incredibly awesome08:47
Livingroomit's more fun than making babies.08:47
johnxEruditeHermit, that's what I'm looking at for you. :)08:47
EruditeHermitI wish diablo would magically be ready and released08:49
johnxEruditeHermit, aaah, all the .debs of the version of microb installed on your tablet08:49
johnxdo you have a debian/ubuntu desktop?08:50
EruditeHermitjohnx: I am trying this:
johnxand some spare time?08:50
EruditeHermitjohnx: yep08:50
johnxok, I haven't tried this for this many packages at once...but it worked for other packages: xomap and osso-xterm08:51
johnxbasically, I just use sshfs to mount the root fs of my tablet on my debian desktop, then use dpkg-repack08:51
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johnx(run dpkg-repack on the desktop that is with --root=/path/to/tablet-sshfs-mount08:52
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EruditeHermitjohnx: how do you mount with sshfs?08:53
EruditeHermitdo you have an example?08:53
johnxinstall sshfs on your desktop, install openssh-server on your tablet, run: sshfs root@my-tablet:/ /some/mount/point08:54
johnxsshfs is like the coolest thing ever :)08:54
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EruditeHermitjohnx: I don't think I have root password for my tablet08:56
EruditeHermitjohnx: I always used sudo gainroot08:56
johnxdid you install openssh-server on it or dropbear?08:56
rm_youyou need to set one or else install ssh08:56
EruditeHermitjohnx: openssh-server08:56
johnxdidn't it prompt you to pick a password during install?08:56
johnxuninstall it and reinstall the latest version from "click to install"08:57
EruditeHermitI don't think so08:57
qwerty12you can set root password with passwd with sudo gainroot08:57
EruditeHermitpasswd works08:57
johnxEruditeHermit, yeah, either way works08:57
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EruditeHermitmaybe it did ask for a root password08:59
EruditeHermitbut I forgot it08:59
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johnxaaah, now the truth comes out :P09:00
EruditeHermitok so which packages do I need to repack?09:00
Livingroomany webcam apps that are cool? maybe ones that upload via ftp or something?09:00
EruditeHermitlibnspr4 libnss3-certs libnss3 microb-gtkmozembed09:01
Livingroomi cant find any to stream or do anything :(09:01
johnxEruditeHermit, anything that you plan on replacing09:01
EruditeHermitsshfs is pretty cool09:02
EruditeHermitI wish the tablets could be mounted by USB09:02
EruditeHermitits really slow over the network09:03
johnxwell, you could use usbnet and sshfs over that09:03
EruditeHermitjohnx: it built it i38609:03
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johnxwhat built what i386?09:04
EruditeHermitit built my repackaged package as libnspr4_1.0.3-36_i386.deb09:04
EruditeHermitinstead of armel09:05
johnxEruditeHermit, you're in scratchbox, yes? what target are you set to? ARMEL or x86?09:05
EruditeHermitjohnx: oh no I wasn't in scratchbox at all09:06
EruditeHermitok I have to do this in scratchbox then09:06
johnxin dpkg-repack?09:06
johnxsorry, got distracted :/09:06
johnxmake sure you specify the arch09:06
johnxdpkg-repack --help09:06
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EruditeHermitjohnx: so I can do it without of scratchbox?09:07
EruditeHermitdoes it recognize armel? I don't think debian systems have armel09:07
EruditeHermitjust arm09:07
johnxit's just blindly repacking09:08
johnxI thought you were talking about packages you *compiled* earlier09:08
johnxthe only part that ended up i386 on that package it just made is the label09:08
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johnxall it does is look at the list of package contents and then put it back together09:09
EruditeHermitso this is what I should be doing09:09
johnxthat's why you get all the complaints about not finding documentation, because docpurge got it09:09
EruditeHermitin a normal shell09:09
johnxyes, in a normal shell09:09
EruditeHermitsudo dpkg-repack --root=/media/cdrom/ --arch=armel libnspr409:09
johnxdpkg --root=/some/path/to/n800 --arch=armel09:10
johnxEruditeHermit, yes09:10
EruditeHermityeah I mounted it at cdrom09:10
* johnx shakes his head09:10
EruditeHermitits temporary09:10
EruditeHermitI don't really use cdroms anyway09:10
johnxyou'll use sshfs enough that you'll want to keep it :)09:10
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johnxI have a whole net hierarchy under my $HOME for sshfs mounts09:11
EruditeHermitproblem with debian and related OSS stuff is that I end up installing every package there is09:11
EruditeHermitjust to try it out09:11
KotCzarnyi use /mnt/1/ for local subnet and /mnt/2/ for outer mounts09:11
qwerty12I prefer using /media instead because then gnome picks it up too :)09:12
KotCzarnyi don't use gnome09:12
qwerty12hehe, you use one of them wierd ones ?:P09:12
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johnxI used gnome until last week, but got fed up with it. Using xfce and compiz for now09:13
KotCzarnynope, fluxbox and mc09:13
EruditeHermitwhat is usbnet btw?09:13
johnxEruditeHermit, usbnet lets you do IP over the usb connection between your N8x0 and PC09:13
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qwerty12KotCzarny, nice :)09:13
EruditeHermitjohnx: no way!09:14
EruditeHermitjohnx: how how how?09:14
johnxheh, you just load g_ether on the device and ifconfig usb009:14
johnxthere's a fancy GUI tool as well, IIRC09:14
EruditeHermitI want09:15
EruditeHermitis g_ether a package?09:15
qwerty12a module09:15
EruditeHermitis it built into the default kernel?09:15
EruditeHermitor do I have to reflash the kernel09:15
qwerty12yeah, its included by default afaik09:16
johnxit's included somewhere09:16
qwerty12I think it's in /mnt/initfs somewhere09:16
EruditeHermitwhats the GUI for it?09:16
EruditeHermitsshfs is awesome btw09:16
EruditeHermitis it a fuse fs?09:17
johnxyeah, fuse09:17
qwerty12Is the gui thing09:17
EruditeHermitwith this, syncing my gpe with evolution will be so much easier09:19
johnxyou can even use dbus-scripts to set up auto-sync when you plug it in09:19
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zchydem_work2has anyone had maemo sdk installation problems when trying to install from scratch to Kubuntu Hardy 8.04? I have fixed sysctl -problem but now I get errors such as: "/scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory" and "/scratchbox/tools/bin/chown: changing ownership of `/var/log/dpkg.log': Operation not permitted"09:25
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zchydem_work2.. and I have tried both installation ways i.e. using install  script and manual installation09:26
Livingroomi cannot understand why wifi overwrites the edge modem when low signal strength is present !AAAUGHR09:26
Livingroomrm -rf /self09:27
qwerty12Goodbye Livingroom09:28
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Livingroomits ok, i made a backup of myself09:28
inzzchydem, "Operation not permitted" sounds like you're not using fakeroot09:28
Livingroomso all that has to happen is that someone logs in, cp -rf /back/self /self09:28
inzzchydem, and preconfigure missing is not an issue09:29
zchydem_work2inz: do you have a glue how I could fix the problem?09:30
inzzchydem, use fakeroot dpkg -i <something> or fakeroot apt-get install <something>09:30
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EruditeHermitI wonder how long it would take to repack the entire tablet09:39
Livingroomguys i just made a youtube video, uploading it now. it includes the N80009:40
qwerty12I made a youtube N800 vid once >.<...09:40
Livingroommines cooler!09:42
Livingroom:P j/k09:42
qwerty12Probably is :D09:42
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Livingroomonce it uploads, you all have to tell me what you think.09:43
EruditeHermitjohnx: what do I need to do on my desktop for USB ethernet?09:43
scibotAny chance someone could try milkytracker in a debian armel chroot09:43
johnxEruditeHermit, ifconfig usb009:44
johnxon my way out the door09:44
scibotIt's in the unstable repository09:44
EruditeHermitok thanks johnx for all the help09:44
johnxgoogle maemo usbnet as well09:44
johnxsure, 'later09:44
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hrwEruditeHermit: search for 'usb networking' and you will get information how to make usb0 hotpluggable + NAT09:49
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qwerty12Does anyone have: sbox-arm-linux-windres :(09:55
hrwsbox suxx09:55
qwerty12Yep :(09:55
Livingroomwhat is sbox?09:55
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EruditeHermithey I just installed the usb-otg-plugin and now I can't even connect to the internet with the tablet09:58
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qwerty12I connect fine with it installed :/09:59
EruditeHermitqwerty12: its not even scanning for wifi signals now09:59
qwerty12Give it a restart :/09:59
EruditeHermitI did a few times09:59
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qwerty12I'm not sure then, sorry, I have to go.10:00
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hrwuniinstall it then and report bug10:03
rm_youthe otg usb thing messes with mine too10:05
timelyrm_you: did your menu work?10:05
rm_yousince i messed with OTG stuff it started popping up "usb device malfunction" messages all the time10:06
rm_youor something like that10:06
rm_youeven with NOTHING plugged in10:06
rm_youonly way to get it to stop is toggle it back and forth from host/otg, and that is only temporary10:06
rm_younot sure if i was using that exact plugin tho10:07
Livingroomdid you guys watch?10:09
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hrwI am not10:10
hrwI have 80x25 text console now10:10
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rm_youcopy/paste and url clicking are broken in silverex's xchat2 port >_>10:16
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Livingroommy newest video is highly recommended by #debian10:27
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EruditeHermitmy networking and USB connecting ability is gone10:33
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scibotUm guys...11:04
scibotMy N800's screen just went Cyan11:04
KotCzarnynow that's something new11:04
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scibotI did11:04
scibotIt looks like it's busted.11:04
Cptnodegardits borked then11:04
scibotIt's still booting and the touchscreen still works, but the screen itself is only displaying that one colour.11:05
KotCzarnydoes it still have warranty?11:05
Cptnodegardbackup shit and try a reflash although its 99% certain a hardware thing11:05
scibotI didn't do anything though.11:05
rm_youif its under warrantee, send it in11:05
rm_youelsewise, open it up11:05
scibotWhich is weird, it should be under warranty.11:05
rm_youprolly just the LCD connector rattled loose11:05
scibotI just rattled it and it is now working11:06
rm_youneed to pop that in better11:06
rm_youit's in the top right corner... you might just be able to squeeze it11:06
rm_youbest bet would be pop it open tho11:06
rm_youthoughtfix has a video guide11:07
KotCzarnybut he still has warranty on it11:07
scibotHad me worried for a second there, I'll just do a backup now, wait for it to die again and send it in for a fixing.11:07
rm_youhow much longer?11:07
rm_youa warranty is nice... but sending it in so they can click a connector into place is t3h suxx11:07
* scibot goes to check his receipt.11:08
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user__opis there any contact, calendar sync i can do from os2008 to evolution?11:14
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aquatixuser__op: using the pimlico suite?11:24
scibotIs anyone interested in music trackers? Milkytracker is open source, has an armel package in debian and supports 800x480.11:25
aquatixhm, that's interesting11:26
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aquatixnot sure whether i'd use it on my tablet11:27
aquatixwould be kinda fun though11:27
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scibotIt works11:32
scibotThe armel package works for me, just ignoring the dependency issues for now.11:32
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scibotHmmm, how do you rightclick though...11:33
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KotCzarnypress and hold11:34
scibotIt needs to be hildonised for that though?11:34
KotCzarnydon't know, just try11:34
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RST38hCongress approved the idea to make pennies and nickels of iron11:38
KotCzarnyirony money?11:39
KotCzarnybtw. why iron, silicon is better11:39
sxpertRST38h, what next ? make them out of sea shells ?11:40
RST38hcardboard is even better11:40
KotCzarnysilicon as in virtual money11:40
sxpertt's called paper money11:40
KotCzarnyit's called credit11:40
sxpertKotCzarny, not necessarily11:40
RST38hnext, they are probably going to abolish pennies and nickels altogether11:40
sxpertdepends if your accound is positive or not11:40
KotCzarnydoesn't matter11:41
RST38hand send inflation further11:41
KotCzarnyyou can loose your goods11:41
sxpertRST38h, next comes the 1000, then 10000 then 100000 then 1M USD bills11:41
KotCzarnyjust because goverment says so11:41
sxpertthen a loaf of bread will go for a 1M USD bill11:41
KotCzarnyit is already11:41
KotCzarnyin nigeria11:41
sxpertor should I say "privately issued by the FED 1M Dollar note"11:42
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RST38hYea, and they have 300k and 700k USD bills there as well11:42
sxpert300 and 700K ?11:42
RST38hMade of high-quality nigerian paper11:42
sxpertthe US ain't too far behind11:42
sxpertKotCzarny, in those places, whose to say the notes are legit or not :)11:43
KotCzarnym16 says so.11:43
* aquatix fires up his colour laser printer11:43
sxpertsoon, they'll only take gold coins11:44
RST38hlittle flasks of oil11:44
aquatixnow that'd be something11:44
aquatixRST38h: ha11:44
sxpertKotCzarny, that should read AK47... the M16 is waaaay too unreliable11:44
RST38hM16 only gets exported to democratic countries11:44
sxpertthat too11:45
RST38hLike Georgia or Azerbaijan you know...11:45
KotCzarnyira[nq] is democratic?11:45
sxpertthe AK47 is much cheaper and much better anyways11:45
RST38hIraq definitely is11:45
KotCzarnymany m16 went there11:45
RST38hIran is currently not, but let's wait and see11:45
sxpertmany didn't come back... still trying to assert the real reason11:45
sxpertbesides, at this point, I'd rather go to Iran than the US11:46
KotCzarnysand is shinier on the other side?11:46
KotCzarnyiran is also b0rken11:46
KotCzarnyany state is abomination11:46
KotCzarnybecause it's made by people and people are imperfect11:47
RST38hsxpert: you don't want to go to Iran, believe me11:47
sxpertthey'd probably pay heftily for my telecomm skills11:48
RST38hthey also cut hands and kill by stoning for trivial stuff11:48
KotCzarnylike watching pr0n11:48
sxpertjust make sure you don't do that ;)11:48
sxpertand thou shall be safe ;)11:49
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RST38hkinda difficult to insure you don't accidentally do something they cut your hand for11:49
KotCzarnyyou can stumble upon it by mistake11:49
KotCzarnyand then you wake up in a messy situation11:49
sxpertt's called "living withing a foreign culture", something the Bushistan people appear to have problems with11:49
RST38hlike those bulgarian medics who spent years in prison11:49
RST38hsxpert: Actually, this is a bit different11:50
RST38hsxpert: It is one thing when foreign culture is more or less benign or if there are clear rules11:50
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RST38hsxpert: But living among millions of holy shiites is different11:50
sxpertRST38h, somehow the US feel that way too... fart in public and you'll probably end up being roundhouse-kicked by the philly cops as shown on tv recently11:51
KotCzarnyyou either catch up or they will catch you11:51
RST38hsxpert: Not really11:51
RST38hsxpert: Although you should abstain from placig yourself in non standard situations - cops (and americans as a whole) are notoriously bad handling these11:52
KotCzarny"The \u2018Net is a waste of time, and that's exactly what's right about it."11:52
KotCzarny- William Gibson, sci-fi author and coiner of the word "cyberspace"11:52
* KotCzarny is different11:52
KotCzarnyand definitely not standard11:52
RST38hKot: But then, you are not completely american, afaik?11:53
KotCzarnyi'm me11:53
KotCzarnyi live on the 'net11:53
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aquatixRST38h: hm, non-standard situations11:57
KotCzarnyand i still have to decide if a state is a good thing or not11:57
* aquatix likes to be quite non-standard11:57
KotCzarnyif people are like body cells in a dinosaur11:57
aquatixguess I shouldn't visit the US anytime soon then :)11:57
KotCzarnyaquatix: visiting isn't bad11:58
KotCzarnyit's living that can be problematic11:58
RST38hKot: Actually, the travel is worst ever now11:58
* aquatix loves living in the Netherlands11:59
RST38hKot: You can't imagine the lines I had to stand in this March. In fact, I couldn't imagine those before I saw them11:59
aquatixpeople tend to whine on the government, society etc here, but it's not that bad :)11:59
KotCzarnyauqatix: unless you do something non-standard11:59
RST38hUS managed to beat USSR at inconviniencing air travel11:59
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KotCzarnyand then you start gathering papers, documents etc12:00
KotCzarnyand fighting with stupid laws12:00
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RST38hyep, helpful, geniunely interested people suddenly start closing up on you...12:00
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KotCzarnyand net filters start watching your data12:01
jitu3485I faced a problem while istalling  maemo SDK 4.0.1 chinook12:01
jitu3485complete error report is at URL:
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jitu3485can somebody please help12:02
KotCzarnywrong user?12:02
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KotCzarnytry: su - sbox12:03
KotCzarnyor su - root12:03
KotCzarnyor read which user you should use at this point12:03
jitu3485but i created the user and user was made12:03
KotCzarnyshould be in install.txt12:03
KotCzarnybut you are using your default user12:04
KotCzarnyor something12:04
jitu3485fine thx12:04
jitu3485i am using jitu12:04
KotCzarnyand you have installed it as sbox, right ?12:04
jitu3485ya i have it12:04
KotCzarnyat first i though it was about feces12:06
rm_yousame <_<12:06
aquatixlike that bbc article?12:06
aquatix - Great tits cope well with warming12:06
* aquatix loves tits12:07
solmumaha_berto_: can you give me the url of the latest po?12:09
aquatixKotCzarny: yeah, that's just backwards :/12:10
KotCzarnyno specs cited though12:11
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_berto_solmumaha: yes12:14
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solmumahathanks _berto_, when is the deadline?12:24
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_berto_there's no fixed deadline12:30
_berto_i'd like to release on monday or tuesday12:30
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solmumahai'll try to get it done by sunday12:36
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tlaxI'm still having problems installin the maemo-sdk.. installer can't update the repositories12:38
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AStormhey guys12:47
AStormI've picked up some incompatible version of one efl lib, broke canola12:47
AStormI need to know which repo has the correct version12:47
AStormkulve: apt-get update cries about your pubkey missing12:49
AStormhow do I add it?12:49
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jldiazAStorm , lookup kulve name in a public keyserver12:51
AStormbut where do I import it?12:52
AStormnormal gpg it isn)}t12:52
jldiazdo you have already the public key?12:52
jldiazin armored form?12:52
jldiazthen, as root:12:52
kulveAStorm: jldiaz: my key is on my home page and in some keyserver. But I don't know (remember atm) how to add it to apt..12:53
jldiazapt-key add public_key.asc12:53
jldiazapt-get update12:53
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AStormhmm, dns error :)12:55
jldiazthen use the IP:
jldiazI've got no dns erro12:55
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AStorm404 :P12:57
AStormI'd rather get the id12:57
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kulveIP is a bad idea with with HTTP 1.112:58
kulvebut that url is completely valid12:58
AStormweird that my dns says the hostname is unsolvable12:59
AStormand it does work qll right13:00
AStormthis gnupg can't use keyservers13:01
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jldiazkulve, I have a problem with UKMP player and ogg. I don't know if the problem is at UKMP or at ogg-support. Did you hear about this?13:03
jldiazthe problem is: when the playlist hits an ogg file, UKMP hangs13:03
jldiazThe only way of stopping it is via killall -913:03
kulvejldiaz: I haven't heard about that and unfortunately I don't have a clue if the problem is in UKMP or in ogg-support..13:04
jldiazok.. I'm even unsure about how UKMP plays ogg files... perhaps it uses mplayer13:06
jldiazI better report it to konttori13:06
kulveI think it uses the Nokia's Media Engine, but I might remember wrong..13:06
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kulveactually I'll take that back. I don't remember13:07
jldiazI guess that the hang occurs while trying to obtain the id3 tags13:07
jldiazand perhaps the problem only appears with *that* specific ogg file. I should do some more testing13:07
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AStormok, how do I list deps of canola?13:30
AStormok, got it13:30
AStormhave some evas vs eet incompatibility13:32
AStorm1.0.0 vs 0.0.013:35
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lardmanNavi: ping13:39
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AStormok, just a missing symlink13:42
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pyhimysI have the core dump for battery chargin daemon(?). Any suggestions where or to whom should I send it?14:00
aquatixtry maemo's bugzilla?14:00
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RST38hAnybody planning to make Conky a proper Maemo desktop widget?14:03
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RST38hA Swiss government ethics committee has issued guidelines on the thorny issue of the "dignity of plants" in relation to biotech research after the country's 2004 Gene Technology Law declared that "the dignity of creatures" should be considered in any grant-funded research.14:09
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lcuk_workdoes anyone going to linuxtag know if diablo test machines will be around?14:36
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GeneralAntillesSeems like a good possibility, lcuk_work.14:41
* lcuk_work rubs hands together14:41
GeneralAntillesQuim may actually have mentioned something to that end come to think of it.14:41
aquatixany news on diablo for n810 btw?14:42
* aquatix checks the forum14:42
lcuk_workdunno, im interested in the cpuscheduler :)14:42
GeneralAntilles"news"? "for n810"?14:42
aquatixas in: firmware update14:42
GeneralAntillesAre we expecting something, new, lcuk_work?14:42
GeneralAntillesaquatix, still don't follow.14:42
GeneralAntillesWhat would be N810 specific?14:43
lcuk_workive heard rumours about some new cpu scheduling code which replaces ondemand slicing and hopefully gives instant upclocking as the task requires it14:43
aquatixGeneralAntilles: erm, just an OS update?14:44
aquatixnothing ground shaking14:44
aquatixwas just wondering when i could install the n810-wimax' version14:44
GeneralAntillesWell, the way you phrased it seemed to suggest you wanted to know about something Diablo-related that was specific to the N810.14:45
aquatixor am i mistaken and isn't that diablo14:45
aquatixi guess i'm in need of some coffee14:45
GeneralAntillesUh, Diablo is maemo 4.114:45
lcuk_workwimax version requires additional hardware doesnt it14:45
aquatixlcuk_work: i know14:45
aquatixbut the wimax tablet had a new version of os200814:45
GeneralAntillesIt just happens to coincide with the release of the N810WE14:45
lcuk_workmind you, having under utilised hardware in a NIT is nothing new14:45
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GeneralAntillesWhenever a Diablo firmware hits, anybody with a console flasher can use it on any OMAP2-based NIT.14:46
GeneralAntillesWhether that firmware happens to be for the N800, the N810 or the N810WE14:47
lcuk_workthen after this updates should be inplace upgrades and shouldnt require flashing :D14:47
GeneralAntillesFor rootfs stuff, anyway.14:48
GeneralAntillesNot sure about initfs/kernel/NOLO14:49
GeneralAntillesThough I suspect there may be a bit more to SSU than has been mentioned thus far.14:49
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lcuk_workright, back to work14:51
lcuk_workcyas later14:51
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unixSnobAny europeans around here know about contracting in Europe?  Is per diem normally paid there?15:23
* mgedmin european, but not contracting often15:24
unixSnobI might be getting a job in Brussels (but I'm open to anywhere).. I hear the tax rate is 50% (about twice that of the US)15:25
unixSnobSo I'm trying to come up with ways to offset that15:25
BlafaselTax at about 50% is correct for Germany.15:26
mgedminhere in Lithuania tax is about 28%, but the employer also has to pay a tax like that15:27
mgedminin the end you get about half of what the employer spends15:27
mgedmin(a bit more than a half now)15:27
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BlafaselYeah, similar here: After all taxes/reductions you end up with roughly 55-60%15:27
mgedminbut the official salary in your employment contract is that intermediate value (+28% of what you get)15:27
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unixSnobBlafasel: it was a German I heard that from, btw, and thought that was common throughout europe15:29
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BlafaselWhat's common?15:30
unixSnobBlafasel: high tax15:30
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BlafaselAh. No idea, cannot compare it to something other than switzerland (which is a lot lower, but payed in a different way etc.)15:31
* mgedmin thinks the thing that matters is what you actually get after the tax15:31
mgedminand the cost of living15:31
unixSnobThe euro is worth ~1.5 USD, but according to a German I know, once you account for higher cost of living and overhead, earning 1 euro is like earning one USD15:31
mgedminalso, hardware is more expensive in europe than in the US15:32
mgedminit was so even when USD was worth more than a EUR15:32
unixSnobmgedmin: yeah, that's what I've heard.  I would bring my own h/w15:32
X-Fade_unixSnob: And we pay about $8 a galon of petrol ;) So don't complain too much..15:32
unixSnobX-Fade_: yeah, I know about that.. and I keep hearing americans complain about fuel cost xD15:33
unixSnobPersonally I make sure I live a mile or less from work - problem solved15:33
BlafaselSo don't bring your own SUV ;)15:33
X-Fade_unixSnob: But we also have all kinds of deductables. So you don't actaully pay the full 50% etc..15:33
trickie_public transport is usually better in euro also15:34
BlafaselX-Fade_: Depends. Some guys (..) are to ignorant to bother themselves with stuff like that ;)15:34
jaskaabout 8.4usd/gallon iirc. here :)15:34
unixSnobX-Fade_: that's what i'm interested in finding out.  What things can I deduct.. education?15:34
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VeggenunixSnob: education is free.15:34
unixSnobjaska: how do you figure15:34
unixSnobVeggen: damn, so I can't write it off15:34
VeggenOn public universities and colleges.15:34
jaskasomething around 1.44eur/litre15:35
X-Fade_unixSnob: And if you come to a hospital, we don't ask first: "How are you going to pay for this" :)15:35
Veggen(at least in Norway)15:35
unixSnobprobably not free for foreigners though15:35
jaskacba to walk to the gas station and check :)15:35
unixSnobX-Fade_: damn.. another thing I can't write off15:35
VeggenunixSnob: hmm, probably not. Never thougt about that.15:35
BlafaselX-Fade_: Rather "Give us your insurance card or go away". Way better.. ;)15:35
RST38hunixSnob: effective US tax rates are usually around 35%, not twice lower than 50%15:35
X-Fade_Blafasel: Well, if they find you injured next to the road without any papers, they will help you anyway :)15:36
unixSnobRST38h: is that accounting for sales tax?15:36
RST38hXFade: So, if I get sick while in Europe, should I crawl to the nearest road and wait for a truck to jump under? =)15:37
BlafaselunixSnob: Deductable stuff: Stuff like books for your work, relocation (work-related) are examples15:37
RST38hunixSnob: account state and county taxes15:37
X-Fade_unixSnob: And it all depends on what you earn. A part of your salary is taxed via a lower rate, middle rate and high rate..15:37
unixSnobwell, I might be earning around 450 euros/day15:38
unixSnobwhich roughly translates into 90 USD/hr (7.5 hr day)15:38
aquatixRST38h: just go to the nearest hospital15:38
unixSnobI was kind of excited when the recruiter told me that.. but the German I know said it will be like making 60 USD/hr15:39
aquatixthey'll help you anyway15:39
BlafaselWah? Give me the address, I'll take care of the job15:39
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X-Fade_There are usually all kinds of tax limits. So for example, you get taxed 20% over the first 20000 and 35% over the next 20000 and the rest is taxed at high rate..15:39
unixSnobX-Fade_: income tax is tiered in the same way in the US15:39
trickie_it can also depend on your visa or work permit15:39
aquatixunixSnob: whoa, that's free-lance or something?15:39
X-Fade_unixSnob: Yeah, so the 50% isn't actually 50% over the total amount..15:40
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unixSnobaquatix: kind of.  I may still be on a payroll, but that's zero benefits15:40
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aquatixwow, nice tariff :)15:40
unixSnobaquatix: it would be contracting through an agency15:40
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aquatixso you'll be paying them too?15:40
BlafaselunixSnob: No idea what you're taking as a reference, but that's twice of my wage..15:40
unixSnobaquatix: i hope not15:41
* RST38h pays 13% flat tax rate15:41
trickie_unixSnob: they probably will take a cut15:41
* aquatix tries to calculate his hour fee15:41
trickie_alot of agencies (at least in .nl) work like that15:41
unixSnobtrickie_, thanks for the tip, I15:41
Veggentrickie: And you'll probably have to cover your sick days yourself.15:41
unixSnob'll have to confirm that15:41
unixSnobIn the US, I don't even know what the agency gets.15:41
trickie_Veggen: yes, and probably no holidays or holiday pay etc15:41
Veggentrickie: and pension.15:41
florianRST38h: Where is this?15:41
RST38hflorian: Russia15:42
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aquatixabout 17.43 euro i guess, and then i still have to pay taxes15:42
florianRST38h: That's nice because it is simple...15:42
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Blafaselaquatix: 450day/20 days a month: 9000/month15:42
BlafaselScratch that, that's three times my wage15:42
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RST38hflorian: gets very complicated once you register yourself as a business though15:42
aquatixBlafasel: whoa :)15:43
aquatixindeed is15:43
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* aquatix makes about 2650 euro/month, 38 hours a week15:43
RST38hflorian: but as long as it is a paycheck, 13%, period.15:43
X-Fade_Blafasel: But with taxes, insurance etc, he will end up with about 40% :)15:43
unixSnobThe recruiter told me I'll have to take care of my own healthcare, so I guess the socialized healthcare doesn't apply to foreigners.. hopefully that's deductible15:43
BlafaselunixSnob: No idea what you are used to, but with 9000/month I'd feel like a king (being single)15:43
aquatixX-Fade_: still :)15:43
florianRST38h: Yeah... I heared some rumours that starting a business in Russia is a major pain.15:43
BlafaselunixSnob: I'm living very comfortable with one third.15:43
jaskalots of officials to bribe?:P15:44
RST38hjaska: yep. + official taxes adding up to something like 50-60%15:44
unixSnobBlafasel: I figured it would be comfortable living15:44
RST38h+ the documentation requirements that change monthly15:44
trickie_unixSnob: the helathcare stuff really depends on which country you go to15:45
VeggenI have around 5500 euro per month, plus overtime. but that covers pension and vacation and stuff too.15:45
BlafaselunixSnob: 3333/month, truckload of hardware in my flat (eeePC, N810, pre-ordered a OpenMoko phone) and an expensive GF15:45
unixSnobtrickie_, at the moment, looks like brussels15:45
BlafaselYou can either buy even more hardware or keep ~8 GFs ;)15:45
RST38hBlafasel: [state-of-factly] this is not a truckload of hardware, just a really small purse =)15:45
unixSnoblol.. how expensive is the GF :)15:45
Veggenergh...I meant "work covers pension and vacation and stuff.."15:45
BlafaselRST38h: Correct, and only the latest stuff/the channel related ;)15:45
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aquatixunixSnob: i pay about 90 euro/month for basic healthcare insurance15:46
aquatixmaybe a few euros less15:46
aquatixwith `basic' meaning `quite good'15:46
* trickie_ about the same also15:46
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X-Fade_aquatix: Don't forget what your employer pays..15:46
Veggenit's around 3000 euro after taxes, easily 4000 with a little bit of overtime.15:46
unixSnobaquatix: that's cheap healthcare.. is that subsidized by your employer?15:46
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florianunixSnob: Judging the location that would be a good choice.15:46
aquatixX-Fade_: i paid that even when i was unemployed15:47
aquatixaka student15:47
trickie_aquatix: you are in .nl yes?15:47
BlafaselVeggen: Still, great/nice15:47
X-Fade_aquatix: It is a percentage of your income now?15:47
trickie_i think it is subsidised by the state somewhat15:47
florianaquatix: That's really cheap... in Germany its much more.15:47
aquatixX-Fade_: nope15:47
unixSnobflorian: cool, I'm really hoping the belgium gig comes through, because naturalization is only 3 yrs there15:47
aquatixflorian: only basic coverage15:47
aquatixyou can go wild if you want ;)15:47
trickie_enough to get treated at a hospital :)15:48
aquatixtoo bad there aren't english pages with the coverage15:48
derf€90/month for basic coverage for someone healthy and college age sounds pretty comparable with US prices.15:48
VeggenBlafasel: actually, without a car and without a gf (hey, I'm a nerd, and nerd girls are hard to find), it's pretty much.15:48
BlafaselunixSnob: hrhr.. Just found some new poster here (switzerland, at a customer): An image where some hands (some intentionally black/brown) grab passports from a stack of swiss ones..15:48
BlafaselWith a fat "STOP" below it.15:49
RST38hBlafasel: Evil!15:49
unixSnoblol.. damn15:49
BlafaselThey are really crazy here regarding "naturalization"15:49
florianaquatix: still cheap... but the system here is incredibly complex15:49
unixSnobyeah, I applied for a Swiss job.. was told they don't want americans15:49
RST38hBlafasel: has it come to blaming the Jews already or are we still some way off?15:49
aquatixflorian: here too nowadays :/15:50
trickie_unixSnob: hows your french/flemish?15:50
BlafaselThey just issued a new bill: If you marry a swiss girl and the marriage didn't last min 3 years they took your passport away again.. Now it's 7 years, iirc15:50
unixSnobeven though the Swiss are not in the EU, they have some agreements that makes it so EU workers can go there15:50
unixSnobtrickie_, 1 yr french in middle school.. ie. not good15:50
RST38hBlafasel: US has the same law15:50
RST38hBlafasel: Conditional green card - you have to update it 2 years after issuance15:51
BlafaselRST38h: That'll never happen. A lot of rich/powerful/wealthy guys here are jews, and there are generally lots of them. I work for a company from Tel Aviv, I should know about it ;)15:51
florianunixSnob: heh... Swiss is _different_. But they are known to pay very well.15:51
RST38hBlafasel: Yes, but it was the same in 1930 =)15:51
BlafaselRight. They payvery nice wages here..15:51
unixSnobThere's /a lot/ of marriage fraud to get citizenship, so I'm not surprized15:51
aquatixexcept that in the 30's the economy didn't do so well15:51
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aquatixand people where pointed to blame it on certain people15:52
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unixSnobflorian: I figure the way to get is to get belgian citizenship (3 yrs), then I can work in Switzerland15:52
BlafaselCountry hoppping15:52
aquatixunixSnob: get a dutch citizenship :)15:53
aquatixthe netherlands is way more fun ;)15:53
aquatixBelgium has better beer though15:53
trickie_aquatix: but then he must give up US citizenship15:53
florianunixSnob: sounds like a plan :)15:53
unixSnobwell, w/ a belgian citizenship, I can get into the netherlands to work / live, no?15:53
BlafaselThe beer question is a hard one.. ;) I'd go for the netherlands15:53
unixSnobI heard the netherlands are getting conservative15:53
Veggenhmm. I actually never went to netherlands, even though the organization in  project I participated has its headquarters in Amsterdam.15:54
aquatixthe government sucks...15:54
florianunixSnob: They have a lot of foreigners working there - a lot of Germans from the south e.g.15:54
BlafaselYou might feel at home there. Some political acticities (against the islam) are probably just like home ;)15:54
Veggen(ok, I've been to the airport, but that doesn't count ;)15:54
trickie_amsterdam is an awesome place to live15:54
aquatixVeggen: :)15:54
* aquatix studies in amsterdam15:54
aquatixgreat city indeed15:54
unixSnobwhen I traveled to amsterdam, my first thought was 'i could live here easily'15:55
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unixSnobmy kind of government15:55
BlafaselSure. Smoking, chilling ;)15:55
VeggenWe had meetings in Paris, Barcelona, Prague, Milan, Luxembourg and Athens, though. But never Amsterdam.15:55
aquatixexcept that the rent will be like, half of your salary? ;)15:55
unixSnobVeggen: they trying to keep you guys clean for the drug tests?15:56
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aquatixlike everyone is stoned here ;)15:57
BugBlauwin amsterdam propably15:57
X-Fade_aquatix: Only tourists :)15:57
aquatixBugBlauw: :P15:57
BugBlauwbut that's from passive smoking15:57
unixSnobaquatix: everyone who is there, but not from there15:57
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aquatixunixSnob: true15:57
VeggenunixSnob: don't work there any more. Unfortunately. It was half-governement, and the number of employees was publically decided, and there's rules about not using temporary workers for more than a year. So after having done part-time work throughout my studies and a year as a contractor, there wasn't job for me.15:57
aquatixsmoking pot, buying expensive cheese souvenirs and visiting the red light district15:58
aquatixtourists are weird ;)15:58
unixSnobpeeing in the streets15:58
Veggen(except that they did hire me in as a part-time consultant for the duration of the rest of the project period, from the consultant company I went to)15:58
aquatixyeah, stupid brits :P15:58
BugBluethat's not weird unixSnob15:58
unixSnoblol.. right, that's normal15:59
aquatixexcept that it costs you 70 euro iirc15:59
unixSnob"weird" is based on where you are I suppose15:59
aquatixproblem is, when you've been in amsterdam, nothing is really `weird' anymore :)15:59
aquatixexcept things like orthodox christians and such, maybe16:00
unixSnobaquatix: I used that street urinal.. had to get the full experience :)  didn't have to pay 70 euro16:00
Blafaselaquatix: Scratch the cheese ;)16:00
aquatixunixSnob: ah, like that16:00
BugBlueaquatix: EUR 90
BugBlueohw and it's not forbidden everywhere16:00
aquatixunixSnob: i was referring to peeing against anything else16:00
BugBluenormally only inside cities16:00
aquatixBugBlue: ah, check16:00
aquatixBlafasel: the cheese is only to show the people at home they didn't spend the whole time stoned ;)16:01
BugBluesitting in front of a building with appantly no reason: 60 euro16:01
aquatixBugBlue: ?16:01
Blafaselaquatix: (and in the red light district)16:01
unixSnobloitering?  I thought only the US had those laws16:02
BugBluetaking a shoppingcart to far from a shop: eur 60 ...16:02
aquatixBugBlue: hm, only if there's a `Plaatselijke Verordening'16:02
BugBluewe have a couple of nice onces16:03
BugBlueyeah... it has to be in specific areass16:03
BugBluedifferent per city16:03
BugBlueand very difficult to find where it's not allowed (since they don't announce them an signs mostly)16:03
aquatixnever seen police give tickets like that16:03
aquatixBugBlue: they don't?16:03
aquatixi just wanted to say they did :/16:04
unixSnobI found out Brazil is definately not the place to work.. programmers make 6 brazilian dollars/hr16:04
unixSnobwhich is less than US min wage16:04
BlafaselunixSnob: Depends. If you get a new house for 14 brazilian dollars it might be a good deal ;)16:04
derfBrazil uses reais, not dollars.16:05
aquatixunixSnob: they have great parties though ;)16:05
trickie_its difficult to setup when you first move here, but once you get the paperwork sorted it is cool16:05
unixSnobaquatix: raves?16:05
aquatixdunno :)16:05
aquatixbrazilian parties ;)16:05
aquatixi guess they'll have raves too, but they'll prefer other kinds16:05
RST38hindt is in brazil, right?16:06
unixSnobI figure the way to go is get a US or EU contract, go to brazil, and hire a team of locals to do your work for you16:06
* aquatix had some great cocktails, made on a party by a brazilian girl16:06
aquatixunixSnob: *g*16:06
unixSnobI could pay 10 brazilians to do my job, and pocket the other half16:06
aquatixmakes for a big enough team to do some LAN gaming after office hours too ;)16:07
unixSnobyeah.. could even pay them to be entertained for 1 day/week for employee morale :)16:08
kenneRST38h, yes, in Recife, northeast brazil16:08
kennealso elsewhere :-) but it is in recife we do canola16:09
RST38hunixSnob: you will then have to redo the job + explain to locals why their job wasn't good enough16:09
RST38hThe usual outsourcing routine16:09
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unixSnobyeah, I have some idea of products outsourced to india.. I've had to use some of those tools16:11
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unixSnobFrom what I understand, you can't give any kind of creative license to outsourced projects.. every detail must appear in requirements16:12
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aquatixunixSnob: indeed16:13
aquatixso it's only usefull for certain projects i guess16:13
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* aquatix rather not outsources16:13
aquatix+correct english16:13
BlafaselIt is, for very simple things.16:13
BlafaselLike in our cases: Data entry16:14
RST38hunixSnob: And even when every detail does appear, they will find a way to interpret it wrong16:14
aquatixand when you have nice specs for some software modules16:14
unixSnobWhat blows me away is that as little as indian programmers earn, they getting 22 times the per capita income in india16:14
RST38hweb apps, business logic, web sites <-- more or less suitable for outsourcing16:14
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aquatixunixSnob: cost of living isn't that high too16:14
RST38hunixSnob: there is a LOT of "capitas" there16:14
trickie_RST38h: until the first site comes back and you have to remake it16:15
aquatixRST38h: if you're willing to cope with non-maintainable business logic and sites, yes ;)16:15
RST38htrickle: yep.16:15
RST38haquatix: true16:15
RST38hWell, you can outsource to Eastern Europe - the results will be more manageable, but it is much more expensive16:15
RST38hAlmost like doing it in-house, basically16:15
unixSnobSome Indians have the right idea: come to the US, work for a year, take savings back to India and take 2yr vacation16:16
aquatixRST38h: my previous employer has an office in hungary16:17
aquatixwas about half what dutch employees earn16:18
aquatixbut about the same qualiry16:18
aquatixand you don't have a huge time difference16:18
aquatixunixSnob: :)16:18
trickie_we have an office in romania and they get paid much much less than us here16:18
RST38haquatix: it is still 3-5 times more than you pay to an indian16:18
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aquatixtrue, but the quality of the product is way better16:19
aquatixso you don't have to rewrite it 6x16:19
RST38hin Moscow outsourcers earn $1500..$4000/mo16:19
RST38hbut the clients are charged 1.3-2 times that16:20
aquatixof course16:20
unixSnobThere was a bet between a couple of millionaires about whether Russia would get more outsourcing work than India16:20
* unixSnob wonders what the outcome was16:20
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RST38hunix: Eventually it may16:21
aquatixprevious company where a bunch of cheapskates; charging 70 euro/hour for my work and only paying me about 10.5016:21
RST38hbut there is the rest of eastern europe to compete with16:21
aquatixthey have to pay management from it too, but still16:21
unixSnobRST38h: yeah, I recall it was a matter of time.. like 2012 or something16:21
RST38hthat is an awful lot of management16:21
aquatixit isn't16:21
aquatixso they made a lot of profit on me16:21
aquatixoh well16:22
derfTypical overhead rates are 2.4 to 2.5x.16:22
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RST38hunix: more and more people start recognizing that india/china just don't produce quality results16:22
aquatixi'm now government employed ;)16:22
* unixSnob wonders why quality varies so much16:22
RST38hunix: on the other hand, with USD falling through the floor, US may end up competing with Russia for software markets ;)16:23
aquatixRST38h: i heard stories of US companies outsourcing to india, who outsourced to another company in india, which outsourced to one in the US16:23
RST38hunix: different education. Chinese are not taught to think (and their management knows and admits it)16:23
RST38hunix: I have no idea what the issue with Indians is (have not worke with them much), but apparently there is some issue16:23
aquatixRST38h: yeah16:24
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aquatixand language barrier too16:24
aquatixand maybe poor IT education16:24
aquatixi just heard that you shouldn't expect much creativity from them with regards to IT projects16:24
unixSnobwell, I don't believe there's a technical defiency.  It seems to be a creativity issue16:24
RST38hunix: East Europeans have the same or better education systems as the West (although at least the Russian education system is becoming much worse over the years)16:24
aquatixjust give spec, type code16:25
RST38haquatix: Indians have no language barrier.16:25
aquatixhm, their english is a lot better indeed16:25
RST38hunix: It is not creativity, it is inability to think16:25
aquatixstill, what you see on certain programming forums ;)16:26
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RST38hIt is like the MCSE problem recently discussed in somebody's blog on Maemo16:26
aquatixRST38h: heh, indeed16:26
aquatixif the US continues, we can start outsourcing to them too ;)16:26
RST38hThey know how to do certain things but can't infer the rest16:26
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* aquatix thinks too much16:26
RST38haquatix: the scary part is that at this inflation rate we only have to wait 2-3 years for that16:27
aquatixand i'm procrastinating from my work16:27
aquatixRST38h: true16:27
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aquatixi'll be buying my next internet tablet in the US too ;)16:27
aquatixfor 75 euro or something ;)16:27
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aquatixif i had waited 2 weeks, i would've been even cheaper16:28
Blafaselaquatix: I bought mine from NYC16:28
BlafaselSaved about 100 Euros..16:28
aquatixnow i only paid 330 euro for an n810, a 4GB minisd and shippnig16:28
aquatixand then 20 euro for a darn nokia charger16:28
unixSnobI paid 190 USD for the n80016:28
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aquatixunixSnob: i think my n810 was still $430 or something back then16:29
unixSnobaquatix: you got ripped on the charger16:29
aquatixunixSnob: i know16:29
aquatixunixSnob: but i needed it fast16:29
aquatixcould've ordered it for about 1016:29
aquatixbut i was leaving for FOSDEM and wanted my n810 with me ;)16:29
unixSnobaquatix: actually, 6 USD, which is 4 euro16:29
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aquatixunixSnob: ah :)16:29
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unixSnobdealextreme is the site I think16:30
aquatixgenuine nokia version?16:30
aquatixah yes16:30
aquatixbought 2 microsd->minisd adapters for 2 euro there16:30
aquatixgreat site16:30
glassdealextreme rocks16:30
glassfor small cheap stuff16:30
unixSnobyeah, they have a good universal adapter that works on the NIT16:30
RST38hWindows XP SP3 sends PCs into endless reboot16:31
RST38hWhy have I expected that?16:31
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glassRST38h: under what conditions?16:31
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aquatixRST38h: heh, mickeysoft ftw16:31
unixSnob <= that one works on the NIT16:32
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aquatixthat one is huge :)16:32
RST38hglass: Who knows...All they are saying is that it is no longer available from ms update16:32
aquatixinteresting though16:32
BlafaselRST38h: English link?16:32
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aquatixunixSnob: meh, outdated sony ericsson connector16:33
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aquatixotherwise it'd be interesting for me16:34
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aquatixRST38h: i speaks volumes that microsoft can't even get an update straight with their extensive `quality control'16:35
* aquatix sticks with apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade16:35
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* AStorm sticks with emerge --sync && emerge -vuDaN world16:40
* unixSnob gets kicked out of forums for discussing MS quality control16:40
* aquatix prefers not to waste his 1337 cpu on compiling ;)16:40
aquatixunixSnob: heh16:41
unixSnobMS QA is a very touchy subject for 95% of the population16:41
AStormaquatix: waste? are you running seti, f@h or something on it?16:41
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* aquatix prefers a load of 0.00 :P16:41
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aquatixcompiling on my laptop is a pain though16:42
aquatixmy new workstation will compile gentoo with two fingers in its nose16:42
AStormrsynced system?16:42
aquatixAStorm: buildd :P16:42
unixSnobI got kicked out of a forum the yesterday for revealing the fact that ext2/3 doesn't fragment chronically like FAT/NTFS does16:42
AStormthere are tons of solutions16:42
* aquatix got a whole build farm ;)16:42
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AStormunixSnob: you win16:42
aquatixand it's called the Debian project16:42
AStormaquatix: distcc is almost there16:43
AStormdebian is overrated, a lot16:43
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AStormbtw, I need to nicely stabilize my laptop16:43
AStormbefore I get stuff running16:43
aquatixAStorm: myeah, i kinda like my debian machines16:44
AStormwould love to get some light VMs16:44
aquatixbut i'm not forcing it on anyone or something16:44
aquatixjust saying :)16:44
AStormthe problem is that I don't have SVM16:44
AStormand Xen has only patches for antique kernels which don't have drivers for some of my hardware16:44
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aquatixdebian has a 2.6.25-xen kernel16:45
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AStormaquatix: hmm?16:45
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AStormdoes it support host?16:45
* aquatix looks16:45
aquatixlooking whether it supports host16:47
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AStormthat'd be awesome16:47
AStormI need at least 2.6.2316:48
aquatixi think it should16:48
aquatixif i read
* aquatix will try this kernel later on his domU16:48
AStormhmm :)16:49
AStormthis is 2.6.2016:49
* aquatix still has .18 on his domU now16:49
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* unixSnob received a job opening from a Brit responding to his CV on a Brazilian job site.. looks like the Brits are looking to bring in those underpaid brazilian programmers17:15
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pyhimysI try to outsource myself with little shell scripts.17:31
aquatixpyhimys: that's not good, job-security-wise ;)17:32
aquatixit's very good lazy-admin-wise though17:32
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pyhimysaquatix: yep.17:32
pyhimysRepetitive tasks are for machines17:33
JackCrowJob Security:  just make it so no one understands your scripts.  Use no or misleading comments  :)17:33
* aquatix needs a script that writes his thesis for him17:33
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aquatixJackCrow: depends whether you want to move on or not :)17:33
aquatixgood admins/programmers don't need job security17:34
JackCrowhaha, good point17:34
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unixSnobaquatix: Good programmers don't need job security, because scripts that make full use of the language are difficult for most mortals to understand17:43
unixSnobI recall being ordered not to use most of the constructs available in the Make language, because others need to be able to understand it17:44
aquatixthat's kinda sad if you think about it17:44
unixSnobAnd for Ada programs, I've been told not to use the "mod" data type, because someone might not know how it works.17:45
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* aquatix tends to think that that someone should use the freaking manual then ;)17:45
unixSnob(a mod type is simply a natural number, but when you add 1 to the highest value, it is set to it's lowest value)17:46
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RST38hADA - Language Designed by a Commitee17:47
RST38hSo is Java, actually...17:47
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aquatixunixSnob: yeah, so what's so hard about it?17:47
unixSnobRST38h: actually, it's "Ada", not an acronym for the American Dentan Association17:47
aquatixints do something similar17:48
aquatixalso wrap around17:48
unixSnobaquatix: just had a lead w/ the same mentality.. "keep it simple, stupid" taken to extremes17:48
aquatixso, that was minus the ','? ;)17:48
aquatixbasically s/,/ &17:49
RST38hunixSnob: actually, it is UNIX not misspelled "eunuchs" like in your nickname =)17:49
* aquatix pronounces it `younix'17:49
unixSnobRST38h: yeah, I agree, but don't like too many caps in handles17:49
unixSnobThen folks have to hit an extra key to address me17:50
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RST38hthat is exactly why I came up with my handle17:50
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aquatixRST38h: i don't need shift for you17:50
aquatixirssi understands `r<tab>'17:50
unixSnobhmm.. guess xchat is smart about that too17:51
* aquatix pats irssi17:51
RST38haquatix <-- computer-enhanced intelligence! =)17:51
* aquatix is blonde17:51
aquatixso yeah ;)17:51
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RST38hIs Nokia Video Converter written in Java or something?17:51
aquatixwouldn't surprise me17:51
RST38hTakes an hour to convert 23 minute video and slows computer down to a crawl17:51
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MangoFusionnot running your computer in java are you? ;)17:54
RST38hall right, enough, going to kill and uninstall it17:54
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* aquatix is going home17:55
RST38hFuck, it is using xulrunner17:55
RST38hHave they actually written video converter in JavaScript? Is there ANYTHING sacred left?17:56
aquatixi guess that's only the gui17:56
aquatixdoesn't it use ffmpeg or something?17:57
aquatixanyways, ttyl17:57
qwerty12Ok, does anyone have a compiled binary of windres? I'm shitting myself trying to find it. ARRGH17:57
RST38hI have no idea, but it was definitely spending a lot of cycles in xulrunner17:57
aquatixweird stuff17:58
* aquatix is gone now ;)17:58
* unixSnob would be more motivated to write code for maemo if an Ada compiler existed for it17:58
aquatixdidn't the gnu compiler do ada?17:58
aquatix[so far for being gone]17:58
unixSnobgnat is part of gcc distros on x86 machines17:59
unixSnobbut it's not available for the ARM processor AFAIK17:59
aquatixanyways, gone :)18:00
aquatixthe whole damn office is deserted already :)18:00
Navi qwerty12 windres is a windows cross compiler.18:02
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qwerty12I know, I need a proper binary, all I keep getting is "sb_gcc_wrapper (/scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/sbox-arm-linux-windres): /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/sbox-arm-linux-windres cannot be recognized18:03
qwerty12Maybe you are trying to run a compiler of a wrong architecture?18:03
Naviqwerty12, we're not actually supposed to have it18:03
Naviscratchbox provides us with a dummy script for windres that actually does nothing18:03
Naviwhich is why the compile errors out18:03
RST38hAll right, given that Nokia's video converter is a pile of steaming fecal matter, what do I use to convert videos?18:03
Navior use ffmpeg/mencoder directly.18:04
RST38hunderstood. thanks.18:04
qwerty12tablet-encode ftw. But I could never get it to work in XP. Ubuntu works like a charm however with it.18:04
Naviqwerty12, To get the crap to work, remove sbox-arm-linux-windres.18:04
qwerty12Thanks :)18:04
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qwerty12Hmm, "sb_gcc_wrapper (/scratchbox/compilers/bin/windres): /scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/sbox-arm-linux-windres: No such file or directory". I'd recompile binutils but that craps out on me too.18:05
RST38hAnybody is working on making Conky into a proper desktop applet?18:06
qwerty12That would be cool18:06
qwerty12I have no problems with how it runs atm though.18:06
RST38hThat would pretty much resolve everybody's status applet needs once and forever18:06
qwerty12It compiles cleanly so anyone willing to take the challenge? :p18:07
NaviWhat are you compiling?18:07
RST38hit flickers (because you can't enable double buffering unless you give it its own window) and it is not packaged properly18:07
Navidid you run ./configure again before trying to compile?18:07
qwerty12xmms2, I need the headers.18:07
RST38hWell, if nobody takes it, I will take it sooner or later, but I am severely out of time resources right now :((18:07
qwerty12RST38h, it's packaged fine18:07
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NaviThe headers for xmms2?18:08
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qwerty12Unless I can jack them from the archive already :/18:09
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NaviCptnodegard, someone saw your review18:10
NaviOh, you saw.18:11
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Naviqwerty12, oh yeah, when I checked yesterday, you hadn't voted on it yet.18:15
qwerty12I did vote on it :)18:15
Navigotta check the checkmark box and hit the modify vote button18:15
qwerty12I'm Faheem Pervez18:15
Navionly shows emails18:15
qwerty12(Yes, perv...)18:15
NaviYou're not on the lsit.18:15
infobotNavi meant: You're not on the list.18:16
CptnodegardNavi, i see everything :)18:16
NaviCptnodegard, ZOMG18:16
qwerty12That's odd, because I swear I voted. I'll do it again.18:16
NaviAll hail Cptnodegard18:16
* Navi bows down18:16
Naviqwerty12, did you tick the checkbox and hit the modify vote button?18:16
qwerty12Erm, probably no :p18:16
qwerty12Navi,I voted for this bug:
qwerty12You want me to vote for a different bug, no probs :p18:17
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Cptnodegardi found gods secret to how he keeps track of everything18:18
Naviqwerty12, d'oh18:18
RST38hmaybe he doesn't?18:20
NaviOh, that's one of the things I want18:20
Navibut wasn't the one I filed18:20
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Naviqwerty12, too many deps for xmms2 >_>18:22
qwerty12solmumaha has already compiled it, all I want is the headers so I can use conky with it lol18:23
qwerty12Thanks for looking though18:23
NaviWonder if you can pipe conky output to a python applet18:25
Navithat'll be fun18:25
qwerty12I don't really use python applets anymore, it's why I went and compiled Conky.18:25
Naviyeah, but I'd rather be able to move conky around18:26
qwerty12That is true18:26
NaviI wanted to check them out, but because of the bombardment of exams during the last few months of school18:27
NaviI haven't had time18:27
Navithey're all over now18:27
qwerty12Lol, great. Hope you did well in the exams.18:28
NaviProbably not, but that's a different story18:28
qwerty12Hehe, I messed up on my French coursework. I'm not really bothered, I can't even speak my mother tongue properly, forget learning a different lanugage.18:29
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RST38hqwerty, please, make the extra step, hildonize it !18:30
qwerty12RST38h, Believe me, I wish I knew how :/18:31
RST38hshould I help?18:31
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Navipipe it to a gtk/python app18:31
qwerty12Yes please, the latest conky 1.5.1 compiles cleanly :)18:31
NaviThere's really nothing much to hildonize.18:32
NaviThat's how conky's supposed to be18:32
RST38hqwerty: I will locate some simple applet sample and figure out what has to be done18:32
qwerty12Cool, good luck with it18:33
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NaviRST38h, if you're lazy, grab some of those python applets.18:33
qwerty12Meanwhile, I'm installing a build with rss enabled18:33
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qwerty12I'd prefer no python18:33
RST38hNo, I am also against python - too heavy18:34
RST38hqwerty: Check out this one:
RST38hI think it is called "home plugin"18:34
Navitoo lazy for anything else18:34
qwerty12Okie, thanks. I'm a dumbshit so I don't really get it but I will try. Meanwhile, if someone else can do it, please do so.18:35
RST38hHere is a Chinook version:
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RST38hqwerty: Should I quickly put together a framework for you to make it easier?18:35
qwerty12RST38h, Any chance you could compile one? I have no idea what I am doing, like my sig says, I'm not a developer :/18:36
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RST38hqwerty: I will try, but the problem is I have got a baby on my hands and several other projects18:38
RST38hI am trying to set up the necessary files at the moment18:38
RST38hAnd will pass them to you if I do not have time18:39
qwerty12Ah :). I would have liked to but I just went and deleted my Conky folder by accident (trying to refrain from swearing loudly)18:39
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* unixSnob wonders why SD media consumes more power than CF18:39
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johnxbecause CF is the best format evar18:39
qwerty12Then again, I can remake the Conky folder, should only take me 10 mins18:39
unixSnobCheck this out.. <= SD to IDE, and then <= CF to IDE18:40
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johnxthe CF-SD needs to run an extra chip, right? Don't CF cards implement IDE anyways?18:41
RST38hunix: no big deal, both CF and SD are basically IDE18:41
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RST38hthere are some physical differences, but logix is the same18:41
infobotjohnx meant: the IDE->SD needs to run an extra chip, right? Don't CF cards implement IDE anyways?18:41
unixSnobYeah, I understand that CF = PCI18:41
unixSnobBut why can't SD use bus power?18:42
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unixSnobyeah, I suppose extra chip for SD theory sounds reasonable18:42
RST38hno, cf != pcmcia18:42
RST38hcf ~= ide18:42
||cwcf = ide, pcmcia includes ide18:43
||cwata more specificaly18:43
unixSnobI heard it was pcmcia18:43
RST38hPCMCIA is much more complicated18:43
johnxah, but CF is a subset of PCMCIA, right?18:43
RST38hPCMCIA = ISA + PnP glue18:43
RST38h32bit PCMCIA = PCI + PnP glue18:43
unixSnobif pcmcia included IDE, why would an IDE controller need any chips.. I don't buy it.. IDE is more raw, IDE is special purpose18:44
unixSnobi mean, pci is more raw...18:44
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unixSnobanyway.. I got my answer.. more circuits on the SD board18:45
NaviCF memory is cheaper anyways18:45
||cwmaybe I'm wrong, I was under the impression that cf to pcmcia didn't have a contrler chip18:45
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johnxok, I think cf is a subset of 16-bit pcmcia, IIRC18:46
||cwthat was my understanding, cardbus controlers do still support 16bit pcmcia18:47
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johnx||cw, that sounds right18:47
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johnxand I have a nice little chipless adapter that lets me plug a CF card into my cardbus slot on my laptop18:47
johnxit was $3 :)18:48
* unixSnob considers using a CF card instead of HDD to run a bootloader and kernel for a desktop machine18:50
johnxseems reasonable18:50
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johnxdon't use it for anything that depends on raw transfer speed, but other than that it makes a lot of sense18:50
johnxI was thinking the same thing18:51
Atariihey does anyone know if scratchbox works with bsd?18:51
qwerty12Good joke :p18:52
qwerty12That was a bad joke of somesort18:52
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Atariisorry did someone reply then?18:52
RST38hqwerty: almost made a small home plugin18:52
qwerty12Atarii, I did but it was pointless18:53
qwerty12RST38h, Cool :)18:53
johnxAtarii, maybe if you have support built for running Linux binaries?18:53
Atariiyes there is support for running Linux binaires18:53
johnxhmm...actually, you could replace the toolchain with one that runs on bsd...and replace qemu with one compiled for bsd18:53
johnxand then rebuild scratchbox from source18:54
johnxthis is all thoroughly speculation on my part18:54
johnxthe maemo sdk is *big* and I don't know what linux-centric assumptions Nokia made18:54
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NaviSomeone should make an Ubuntu distribution rehash named that18:55
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johnxheh...the lolcat-ese localization of ubuntu?18:56
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Naviwith an lolcat theme18:56
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Atariiit wasnt for me, it was asked for one of the devlopers of pc-bsd18:57
NaviBest thing to do is try18:57
NaviWe're not sure18:57
johnxAtarii, ah, here's the big deal breaker though18:57
johnxit depends on binfmt_misc on linux18:58
Atariithats way over my head but ill tell him18:58
johnxI have no idea if their is a bsd equivalent of similar functionality18:58
Atariithink ive just got Nokia another n810 sale :D18:58
johnxbinfmt_misc lets you run programs for other architectures by specifying an "interpreter"18:58
johnxin this case, qemu18:58
Navitoo many people ask me about the N800 at my Uni18:59
johnxthinking about it...that's probably how BSD does linux compatibility so it might not be a big deal18:59
Naviso I've started to be vague about why you can't really play games and videos without transcoding19:00
Naviand there are some who get snooty 'cuz they thing they're smarter19:00
infobotNavi meant: and there are some who get snooty 'cuz they think they're smarter19:00
qwerty12Same here, I always say good points (except for my shit battery life which I can't hide)19:00
NaviI put my device in offline mode19:01
Atariii just showed xterm and it was a winner19:01
Naviwhen I'm not using it19:01
NaviAtarii, lol19:01
Atariithats when you know they are a geek19:01
qwerty12Mine is in offline mode but my N800 gets now and it still dies :p19:01
Atariiwhen they scroll the menu and say "o wow xterminal"19:01
johnxqwerty12, you definitely have something sucking up CPU time :)19:01
Naviqwerty12, you should stop playing porn in the background while not using it19:01
qwerty12johnx, Yep, I don't know what it is though :(19:02
Atariiwheres the best place to get n810 in UK anyone know?19:02
qwerty12Navi, damn, how did u find out?19:02
NaviI stalk you19:02
NaviAtarii, do they have Nokia stores there?19:02
Atariidont think so, maybe London :(19:02
NaviWell, that would be the *easiest* place19:02
unixSnobwhen it's in offline mode, and the RSS reader tries for a scheduled download, does it go online?19:02
* qwerty12 checks the bushes...19:02
qwerty12Atarii, London ftw19:02
NaviunixSnob, no19:03
Atariiqwerty12 birmingham here atm :(19:03
qwerty12Atarii, I feel sorry for you :( :P. Hehe, I think we have a lot of Nokia service centers around London19:03
Navirss reader applet = battery sucker19:03
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Atariiqwerty12 is there any stores which have display internet tablets?19:04
NaviYay, mediabox update?19:04
NaviI mean, I'm not a fan of it, but I want to try it out anyways19:04
qwerty12Atarii, I don't think so. It's the phones that get displayed. You *may* be able to find one in Central London19:05
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qwerty12solmumaha, Any chance of dropping me the xmms2 headers or something? I don't want to recompile but I want to include xmms2 support in Conky :). I'm having a war between the 2 daemons: xmms2 and mpd19:06
Atariione more exam then its scratchbox time! prepare for noob questions!19:07
NaviI prefer xmms2 but it lacks killer clients like ncmpc19:07
RST38hqwerty: rebooting to Ubuntu19:07
RST38hGoing to try compiling this home plugin19:07
johnxNavi, ncmpc wins!19:07
solmumahaqwerty12: how good is the support?19:07
solmumahajust control?19:07
qwerty12No idea :/. I think it may just list the song that is playing with the time :/19:08
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Navithe whole db thing in mpd is supposed to be killed in mpd2, but the dev team for mpd is lacking in... people19:08
solmumahadon't bother then19:08
qwerty12I haven't really looked at the config options. I'll see now.19:08
johnxeh, the db thing in mpd doesn't bother me that much since it's so fast19:08
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qwerty12Here are conky xmms2 options: . Don't really seem like much to me too :/19:09
NaviI just like adding music to my playlist without having to move the music and then update the db19:09
solmumahaqwerty12: useless imo19:10
qwerty12I need to transfer the songs of my W810 onto my N800. Not sure if it's worth it atm though if my battery is really bad.19:10
qwerty12solmumaha, agreed19:10
Navithe bottom and top bars are now translucent in mediabox19:11
Navithe old bars were uber ugly19:11
Navinow it's only *kinda* ugly19:11
Navia better designed theme would make it look really good19:12
Navithe bottom bar isn't completely retarded any more19:14
Navidoesn't try to double as a navigation bar19:14
qwerty12My biggest annoyance with apt is that it will not let me install anything else while a totally unreleated package has a conflict, missing deps etc.19:14
NaviMy biggest annoyance with apt is making packages.19:14
NaviA seriously overcomplicated approach19:15
johnxapt is package agnostic, Navi19:15
johnxyou can make it install .tgz's if you want19:15
johnxfair enough19:15
johnxI'll agree with you there O_o19:15
johnxqwerty12, that means your OS is in a broken state. It's like your stove refusing to let you cook something while the other burner is on fire. :)19:16
qwerty12Good analogy, but it would be nice if it would include a carry on option. As you may have been able to tell, I take risks and always end up paying for them >.< :p19:17
Naviplaylists + better kinetic scrolling makes it a lot nicer than canola in the music playing field19:17
johnxapt-get -f install && apt-get install foo19:17
Naviand canola broke for me :/19:18
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johnxif diablo has a newer apt installed I'll definitely get a build of aptitude running O_o19:18
qwerty12johnx, same here :D19:18
johnxI've really fallen in love with aptitude over the last couple days19:18
NaviI wouldn't bank on it19:18
johnxNavi, I'll bet you one (1) donut Diablo has a newer version of apt :)19:19
qwerty12johnx, ;)19:19
NaviBut considering what's already been said, as well as what was in my several months old alpha snap19:19
NaviI want my doughnut filled with custard19:20
qwerty12Chocolate ftw19:20
Atariiif i have my iGo keyboard paired with my nokia and then pair it to my computer, is there anyway to quickly swith between the two?19:20
qwerty12lol, dh_make sucks19:21
Atariiapart from synergy19:21
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Navithe edje demos that the canola team contributed to the e svn are in the repos19:22
inzjohnx, aptitude is slllloowwwww19:23
johnxbut it's ability to deal with recommends and brokenness is worth it19:24
johnxespecially when space is limited19:24
Capn_Fishjohnx: I didn't miss the new release, did I?19:24
johnxjust got back from work19:24
johnxhaven't been working on it today19:24
Capn_Fishno problem19:25
Capn_FishI just want to make sure I get it immediately after it becomes available19:25
johnxI found something about sound in mamona that might make me delay a debian release for a little while, in favor of getting that working :)19:25
Capn_FishNot that I'm impatient19:25
RST38hqwerty: tiny plugin example compiled. making a deb for it.19:25
qwerty12Cool :)19:25
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inzjohnx, what version of apt does aptitude need?19:26
johnxI honestly don't know19:26
johnxbut at this point I don't feel like starting projects with el diablo on the horizon19:26
inzjohnx, the maemo svn has apt 0.7.6(maemo2)19:27
johnxthat should be fine I think for a relatively recent version of aptitude19:30
qwerty12I am gonna beat the crap out of my N80019:30
johnxNavi, glazed, filled with jelly19:31
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johnxI might have to split it with qwerty12 though :D19:31
qwerty12The bet? :)19:31
johnxthe donut19:32
* Navi goes to krispy kreme and gets johnx a glazed doughnut filled with banana jelly19:32
qwerty12Ah >.>19:32
Navihere you go19:32
* Navi tosses the doughnut over to johnx19:32
johnxthe donut makes it ~20 feet19:32
johnxI'll pick that up in a sec...19:33
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NaviI wonder if I can repackage the stuff that depends on libgtkmozembed and change the depends19:36
johnxsure, just ar x foo.deb and poke its control file then repack19:37
Naviyeah, I've done that19:37
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Navibut isn't microb-eal one of the preinstalled packages that can't be found on the repos?19:37
qwerty12I just went and edited status file :/19:37
johnxdo use dpkg-repack on it19:38
Navior I can use timeless's script :D19:38
NaviI don't have a debian system19:38
johnxI'm sorry to hear that19:38
NaviYou don't have to be.  I hate .debs19:38
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johnxyou could chroot into one on the tablet or use my debian rootfs :)19:38
johnxmaking debs are a pain but debian is a great distro19:39
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NaviI prefer distros that follow the KISS philosophy... or *BSD19:40
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johnxso, what's your OS of choice?19:40
NaviI check out other distros periodically to see if anything's changed19:41
johnxmaybe I'll look at arch19:41
johnxit didn't immediately scare me away by being either: compile everything from source or based on redhat19:41
Naviso I've tried etch and sid19:42
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johnxa *surprsing* number of distros fail those two sanity checks19:42
NaviI have a lot of stuff from source/svn anyways19:42
* johnx is too impatient to compile tons of stuff from source19:43
NaviGlad I don't have to compile stuff I don't care about19:43
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qwerty12ok, to make a deb not listed as incompatible application package, the section must be user/whatever right?19:43
johnxqwerty12, yes19:43
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qwerty12johnx, thanks19:43
Navimy libeet is borken19:44
Naviwonder why19:44
johnxmy desktop is finally at a state where it does what I want and I don't feel the need to use bleeding edge software on it19:44
* unixSnob doesn't have the need for bleeding edge s/w either.. but debian is ancient stuff!19:45
NaviI like getting new features and new fixes a few days (hours, sometimes) after release19:45
johnxunixSnob, eh, I run debian "unstable"19:45
RST38hqwerty: plugin built, need to test19:45
JackCrowjohnx:  quick!  back up and save that config!19:45
Navinew libs are great too19:45
unixSnobhmm.. maybe I should try debian unstable19:45
aquatixunixSnob: debian ancient?19:45
aquatixah, using stable?19:45
NaviI like sid more than the ancient stuff19:45
johnxit's more stable than any redhat I've ever tried19:45
* aquatix uses sid19:45
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johnxand it's working better than ubuntu stable19:45
NaviPlus, I don't like being bothered to reinstall my desktop as recommended or trying to fix it myself.19:46
* unixSnob is about to trash a debian netinst installation.. way too old19:46
johnxunixSnob, apt-get dist-upgrade19:46
johnxit *actually works* a lot of the time19:46
unixSnobnow you tell me19:47
* aquatix does dist-upgrade at least once a day19:47
aquatixbut i'm weird19:47
* aquatix <- update whore19:47
johnxNavi, hey, this is kind of a surprsing situation coming from redhat or windows19:47
* mgedmin used to run debian unstable19:47
mgedminit was fun19:47
mgedminespecially the day when my /home refused to mount due to a bug in debian's initrd19:47
mgedminthat other day when X refused to start was also rather fun19:48
johnxI tend to find a good set of versions and avoid updating when crazy stuff is going on19:48
Navijohnx, you mean I don't have to reinstall every time a new release is out?!19:48
* Navi faints19:48
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johnxNavi, tell me archilinux has good "upgradability" and I'll give it a shot19:48
qwerty12Tell me it can find a good supplier and I'll get it.19:49
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unixSnobHow do I install unstable stuff?  If I install debian 4 (netinst), it installs old stable stuff by default19:49
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NaviIt does. A few of the #archlinux people has had installs as old as the distros itself.19:49
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johnxright, so grab a testing netinst19:49
johnxor just install stable and dist-upgrade19:49
unixSnobhow do I run the dist upgrade?  Will "aptitude install dist-upgrade" do it?19:50
RST38hqwerty: Are you here?19:50
Navijohnx, the only problem I've had was the hdX/sdX change. I didn't edit menu.lst before I rebooted19:51
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johnxunixSnob, should just be aptitude dist-upgrade or aptitude full-upgrade19:51
johnxNeed to change your sources.list first of course19:51
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RST38hqwerty: I have compiled a little sample plugin for you19:52
RST38hqwerty: Everything is there, you just need to add your code instead of button_new19:52
RST38hqwerty: where should I email it?19:52
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qwerty12RST38h, Drop it at . Thanks :)19:53
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Naviqwerty12, now your email's been logged for spambot fun19:56
qwerty12lol, I have 838 emails in gmail spam filter :p19:56
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qwerty12besides, your email is on the bugzilla :p19:56
* unixSnob wonders why you folks don't use IRC to move files19:57
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qwerty12I wonder too.19:57
Navidcc foos19:57
mgedmindoesn't work reliably...19:59
mgedminfirewalls and stuff19:59
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qwerty12RST38h, Thanks :). Got the email. I'll take a look tomorrow, headache is kicking in :(20:00
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Navipython is looking for libeet.so020:10
infobotNavi meant: python is looking for
* Navi switches channel20:11
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* qwerty12 needs to make another crap package. I make packages, I just gotta put dem out now...20:13
NaviI like that xterm with the toolbar on the side20:14
qwerty12tabs are a winner too20:14
NaviI've never used it, but I like the looks of it20:14
johnx'night all20:14
Navijohnx, good night20:14
qwerty12johnx, night20:14
qwerty12Navi, wait a sec20:15
Navijohnx, don't you feel loved20:15
Naviqwerty12, I can't wait.20:15
NaviIt's impossible20:15
qwerty12just jamm :p20:15
Naviis it based on the svn?20:15
qwerty12Yes, 13 is the build with tabs and toolbar on the side.20:16
qwerty12ttf-bitstream-vera is also needed.20:16
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ccooke... can you make the toolbar *not* appear by default?20:16
Naviyou can disable it20:16
Navisetting doesn't stick?20:17
qwerty12Yes, in SVN builds it actually stays disabled.20:17
ccookeis there a changelog anywhere?20:17
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qwerty12If anyone wants the musictracker pidgin plugin, I went and compiled it for the maemo pidgin port (shows on msn what track you are listening to through mpd)20:19
JackCrowDoes it display track to other IM networks?20:21
qwerty12Yes (afaik)20:21
qwerty12"MusicTracker is a plugin for Pidgin (previously known as Gaim) which displays the music track currently playing in the status message of various accounts such as AIM, Yahoo, MSN, Gtalk (Jabber), etc., i.e. any protocol Pidgin supports custom statuses on"20:22
qwerty12It should in theory work with exaile too as we have a port.20:22
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Naviqwerty12, where can I grab the font?20:22
qwerty12It's in a repo somewhere, I have it installed but not sure which one. I'll check for you.20:23
JackCrowI would give that a try, always wanted to be able to do that.  I guess I'd have to be listening with the built-in media player, rather than Canola, right?20:23
qwerty12No, mpd :)20:23
qwerty12Or Exaile20:23
qwerty12Navi, it's in Maemo Chinook - [Repository is online]20:24
qwerty12 chinook | free non-free20:24
JackCrowoh, i see20:24
NaviIf I change up the ncmpc keybindings20:24
Navithen it would be perfectly usable20:25
qwerty12I'm installing a mpc frontend atm, lets see how it works.20:25
Navithe shortcuts on the side will make ncmpc awesome20:30
qwerty12I tried it, initial setup screen is too big so I'm jacking the config file on my computer.20:30
Navihow do you bind a space key?20:32
qwerty12Try GDK_KP_Space20:33
qwerty12Or GDK_space or KP_Space :/20:33
qwerty12Yeah, I gtg :)20:35
Navisee ya20:35
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unixSnobFolks - got an answer to our CF chip discussion earlier20:50
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unixSnobCF card buses /are/ pcmcia (not IDE), but they contain circuitry to act as a IDE controller20:50
unixSnobs/they/CF media/20:51
infobotunixSnob meant: CF card buses /are/ pcmcia (not IDE), but CF media contain circuitry to act as a IDE controller20:51
eeroshould I install 64 bit or 32 bit ubuntu if I plan to use maemo on scratchbox ?20:51
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Atariicanola2 really doesnt like 2008he :(20:53
Navieero, 32bit20:55
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RST38hI am getting a crash in tablet-encode. Any ideas why it would happen?21:16
RST38hAn X11-related crash the very moment it tries showing a window21:16
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zapCan anybody tell me who/when launches udhcpc? I would like to set my hostname through DHCP, so I need to change its command line somehow...21:23
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NullM0demzap: this may help
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zapI found that udhcpc is started by /usr/sbin/icd21:34
zapso basically there's no way to modify udhcpc command line21:34
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zapexcept replacing /sbin/udhcpc with my script, and renaming the original binary to udhcpc.bin21:35
zapwhich I did, and which works :)21:35
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KotCzarnyendless reboot loop, now available for m$ windows too!21:35
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RST38hhello, kot21:45
RST38hHeh, you have found that article too21:45
RST38hWhy did I see it happen from the very beginning? =)21:45
KotCzarnyjust because?21:46
* lcuk checks to see if anyone notices21:47
KotCzarnynotices what?21:48
lcukermmm it wasnt me21:48
KotCzarnywhat have you done?21:49
lcuk:D heh, i completely borkened the ssh session and the 810 with some kind of rampant memory string21:49
RST38h130fps conversion rate21:49
lcukand in the course of doing this i think ive broken font rendering21:50
RST38hlcuk the barbarian21:50
lcukit renders *some* glyphs fine21:50
lcukbut others are ermmm strange to say the least21:50
KotCzarnylooks like corruption21:51
RST38hresearcher John Shalf explained the purpose and some of the technical details of the newly-announced "iPod supercomputer". "Microprocessors from portable electronics like iPods could yield low-cost, low-power supercomputers for specialized scientific applications, according to computer scientist John Shalf.21:51
KotCzarnylow-power supercomputer?21:51
KotCzarnyas in low mips, or low watts?21:51
RST38hAh, the distance at which some scientists will get gov grants to buy iPods...21:52
lcukkot, kinetic scrolling this book is great21:52
aquatixKotCzarny: as in `whatever, not going to build one'21:52
aquatixbetter use c2d's or something21:52
KotCzarnylcuk: /me purrs :)21:53
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KotCzarnyMan dressed as tree robs bank21:53
RST38h*Not* penis this time?21:54
lcuknope, deffo code. i just put last nights back and its working21:54
Navincmpc won't run22:08
Navikeeps complaining about "Error opening terminal: xterm" :(22:08
KotCzarnyinstall ncurses package22:09
KotCzarnyand something else22:09
KotCzarnyi forgot the name22:09
KotCzarnyafair i had the same error22:11
KotCzarnyand it needed only installing some package22:11
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Naviit was ncurses-base22:12
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* lcuk knows what he did22:18
NaviAny idea what KP the > is?22:24
NaviI want to give it a shortcut in the toolbar22:25
vililikkuHi! Is it possible to use Maemo Mapper in the Linux system?22:25
vililikkuI'm trying to compile maemo mapper in my Arch Linux, but i can't find package  conic22:26
KotCzarnyit's nokia's package22:27
KotCzarnyconnection related22:27
NaviThere are probably better desktop mapping proggies anyways22:27
vililikkuKotCzarny: So can i get it from somewhere?22:28
vililikkuNavi: But i want to try Maemo mapper. :)22:28
KotCzarnyyou would need to hack the source22:29
KotCzarnyand rip out maemo-specific parts22:29
vililikkuKotCzarny: I don't do it, i give up22:29
vililikkutoo hard for me22:29
KotCzarnyyou can try asking the author22:30
KotCzarnyhe has said something about x86 version in the future22:30
KotCzarnybut nothing specific22:30
vililikkuKotCzarny: Okey.22:30
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KotCzarnyyou can try running it in sdk too22:31
vililikkuKotCzarny: I try tomorrov, now i go to bed22:31
vililikkuv --> w22:31
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zapncmpc maemo edition?22:47
NaviIt's just the standard ncmpc22:47
zapwhat's at the right of it?22:48
zapah, xterm :)22:48
zapyour fonts seems a little f*d up22:48
Naviit is22:48
NaviI haven't gotten around to putting fonts on22:48
zapwhy you would like to use a proportional font in terminal? :)22:48
zapmonospace is the true font for it22:49
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NaviI was playing with fonts a few days ago22:49
Navithat were already on the device22:49
zapI wonder what fonts are by default22:49
balrog-kuni have a URW Gothic font in gnome terminal it looks quite cool22:49
Navireinstalling my apps were a higher prioraty than fonts22:49
* zap apt-get install ttf-dejavu22:50
balrog-kunnot very readable, but looks fancy22:50
NaviI've seen that font :P22:50
* KotCzarny uses roman font on console22:50
Navimy font of choice is terminus22:50
zaphmm, osso-xterm does not see my dejavu fonts22:53
zapproposes to choose only between sans, serif and monospace22:53
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Navi25 bucks to the first person who runs microb in kde23:33
Navilike, actually working.23:34
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RST38hNavi: But why?23:42
NaviWhy what?23:42
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NaviRST38h, oh, KDE.23:48
NaviBetter than Konqueror?23:48
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