IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-03-17

wazdHmm... Use n800 as loudtalk is very good idea I suppose :)00:00
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BabelOwazd: yes ;)00:00
wazdBut i think it's the same profile as handsfree, so you need it :)00:00
BabelOwazd: some time ago i foiund small tools to emulate a computer as a a2dp headset, but can't find it again00:01
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wazdMaybe it's possible to port profile like it done with A2DP00:02
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wazdAaaah, Wacom is so sweet but need so much time to adopt :)00:03
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Jaffajott: ta muchly00:11
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pupniknow that the distortion is gone, the n810 speakers are pretty incredible00:24
pupnikunit initially had bad distortion00:24
wazddoes n800 suffer?)00:25
KotCzarnypupnik: hardware or software?00:25
pupniki originally thought it was a problem with software mixer but now i think it was that the speakers needed to be 'broken-in'00:26
pupnikafter a couple hours of high volume they're crystal clear00:27
wazdSmall poll: Does anybody ever used his/her own homepage on tablets?)00:27
KotCzarnywazd: i have my own index.html00:27
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wazdthanks :)00:27
wazdThen we're leaving homepage button :)00:28
KotCzarnypupnik: i have never noticed distortion00:28
KotCzarnydo you have any recording, etc?00:28
pupnikyes i did some recordings but i don't have a good mic, so it was just the camera00:29
wazdAnd what do you think about the idea of new Web Menu ( )? is it worth to develop?00:32
doc|homethat looks exactly the same00:34
doc|homeoh, wait, no, took a while to load completely00:34
doc|homecan the renderer be made faster? :/00:34
* pupnik watches joe vs the volcano on new mplayer .2600:34
KotCzarnydoc: yes, use links00:35
KotCzarny.26 is out?00:35
KotCzarnyanything important fixed?00:35
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wazdLipsync fixed?)00:35
pupniki think so00:35
KotCzarnyonly in sdl? :)00:35
pupniktiny differences between sdl and esd00:36
pupniksdl is default00:36
KotCzarny"I strongly suspect that we can't rely on audio delay reported by esd at all."00:36
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wazdI think that lipsync bug appears only in odd numbered versions :)00:38
pupnikbtw 2-pass encoding is he way to go00:39
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pupnikplaying with mplayer KotCzarny ?00:52
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KotCzarnydefine 'playing'00:52
pupnikwell testing00:52
KotCzarnynot yet00:53
KotCzarnybut on my laptop mplayer is playing some mp3s00:53
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pupnikgetting a bit of tearing on some 400x240 ones00:55
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pupnikdo you remember the 'low quality' playback command line option?01:13
KotCzarnynope, but i can check01:14
pupniki'm searching but no finding yet01:14
KotCzarny-lavdopts lowres=1:fast:skiploopfilter=all01:15
pupnikty added to script01:15
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pupnikheh wow, that is low quality :)01:15
KotCzarnybut on anything lower than 600x400 it looks ugly01:16
KotCzarnyit's only for hi-res vids :)01:16
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MipsIrvhas anyone yet run into and overcome mbuiter_multi errors yet?01:28
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pupnikKotCzarny: there seems to be a speedup without the lores also -lavdopts fast:skiploopfilter=all:ec=001:30
pupnika lot of untranscripted stuff at 512x384 is watchable, but dropping whenever there's a lot of motions01:31
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KotCzarnybut lores minimizes fb transfer01:31
KotCzarnyand keep in mind that it was for my hires vids01:32
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pygihello folks01:45
pygianybody who knows if one can change the web shop where discount code for n810 is valid?01:45
KotCzarnyn810 had price cut recently01:47
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MipsIrvminus $100 or only $100? ;)01:50
KotCzarnyminus 100$01:50
pygiKotCzarny, well, I have a code for 99Euro :)01:50
pygibut it applies only in AU shop :(01:50
KotCzarnybut still, get n80001:50
KotCzarnyit's superior to n81001:51
KotCzarnyand for the price difference you can have REAL gps and nice bt kb01:51
pygio com'on, I'm just looking how to switch validity of code, not buying n800 :)01:51
shackanKotCzarny: you can have a n800 and a gps and a keyboard for 99eu ?01:51
shackanshut up already :)01:51
KotCzarnypygi: is that code for n810 for a 99EUR or price-99EUR ?01:52
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shackanpygi: as far as I know, you can't01:52
pygiKotCzarny, n810 for 99EUR01:52
KotCzarnyok. /me shuts up01:52
pygishackan, ah, oki ... gotta find an AU contact then ...01:52
f_mohrnice .. i paid 40001:52
KotCzarny(for a moment :)01:52
MipsIrvi'll take an 810 for 99EUR? who do i send the money to?01:53
shackanpygi: aren't you in croatia or something like that?01:53
pygishackan, yes, so? :)01:53
jkuMipsIrv, it's the developer program...01:53
shackanpygi: then why did you get and australian code? :D01:53
MipsIrvhmm really?01:53
pygishackan, which one would I get? heh ...01:53
pygishackan, no croatian code xD01:54
shackannow this is confusing01:54
shackanpygi: but it applies only in AU shop01:54
jkuMipsIrv, there'll be a new program when next device comes out no doubt01:54
pygishackan, ah, not australian, austrian :p01:54
pygishackan, yea, I know, I had a contact who could get it for me there :)01:54
pygishackan, AT*01:54
pygiignore me, I'm silly, it's night :)01:54
shackanwell, austria is about three hours by car, isn't it?01:55
KotCzarnyjku: what is this dev-program about?01:55
shackanat least from slovenia01:55
pygishackan, what's the point when ship address has to be somewhere in AT?01:56
shackanno relatives there?01:56
doc|homehmm, anyone know why the mic might not be working?01:56
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shackanor friends..01:56
MipsIrvahhhhh.. if only i had time to contribute substantively and a desire to work within the current framework01:56
doc|homehmmm, or the speakers :/01:56
doc|homefor sip01:56
jkuKotCzarny: "we want to offer the new Nokia N810 Internet Tablet to the most active contributors of the maemo community, as soon as possible and as affordably as possible. The N810 maemo device program starts *now* with 500 discount codes entitling their fortunate owners to get a device for 99€"01:56
MipsIrvi'd honestly like to see xfce on the device ;)01:56
KotCzarnyjku: so it's some kind of lottery?01:57
pygishackan, nop, only in germany :(01:57
jkuKotCzarny, that was news 2007-10-1801:57
KotCzarnymips: there was a port i believe :)01:57
KotCzarnyjku: i got mine ~2 weeks ago :)01:57
MipsIrvkotczarny: yeah.. but that's doesn't exactly support the maemo project01:57
MipsIrvi look at the trend in embedded devices.. and i think.. i'd like to see some of this stuff come to the desktop01:58
shackanlike what?01:58
MipsIrvfor the most part it is there.. just not packaged as well as it is for embedded devices01:58
KotCzarnyyou can put your nokia on the desktop..01:58
MipsIrvfor example.. i have my n800 right now to pop rss feeds for stocks and deals.. i'd like to see that in a task-bar for both my n800 and my desktop01:59
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MipsIrvseems to be a big stink about pim functionality.. i'd also like to see that integrated in both01:59
shackanyou mean, synch your feeds between both?01:59
shackanconduit will take care of that soon, I hope01:59
MipsIrvnative upnp support? here i am running fuppes.. libupnp.. djmount etc etc to do the job02:00
MipsIrvthere seems to be more drive to provide more integration in handheld platforms02:00
MipsIrvunfortunately.. it is usually some offshoot project somewhere or a branch02:00
jkuMipsIrv, I'm not seeing that02:01
jkuPim is a good example.. not much integration02:01
MipsIrvminimo. .firebug.. mozilla.. firefox02:01
MipsIrvi want an efficient, feature-rich browser for both my handheld device and my desktop02:02
KotCzarnyfirefox3 looks promising02:02
pupnikmaemo is never really going to make the 'sync me with the microsoft world' happy, imo02:02
MipsIrvi don't sync with microsoft02:03
MipsIrvi'd like to use evolution.. but i have commitment issues ;)02:03
MipsIrvanyone have a link handy on the flash map of the nokia platforms?02:05
MipsIrvand.. i'm assuming that the nokia flasher tool is already aware of that flash map?02:05
shackanwhat is a flash map?02:06
MipsIrvat what address various images start and how much space they have02:07
MipsIrve.g. kernel starts at 0x1000000 and it's size is 0x200000002:08
MipsIrvmap may not be the right term02:08
MipsIrvalright.. cheapest i've found an 810 is $319US02:08
KotCzarnyget n80002:08
MipsIrvi have one02:09
MipsIrvwhy get the 800 over the 810 though? besides the keyboard not being worth $150? heh02:09
KotCzarnyfor 100$ you can have fast and accurate gps02:09
KotCzarnyand for another 30-80 bt keyboard02:09
KotCzarnybut n810 has a 'chic factor'02:10
MipsIrvnot quite sure what that means..02:10
KotCzarnyand it can be more important for some people02:10
doc|homecan the n800's sip facilities work with accounts?02:10
KotCzarny'look, shiny!'02:10
jkuKotCzarny, I thought like that until I got my n810... Now you'll have to pry it from my cold hands (and gf has the n800)02:11
jkuthe keyboard is essential to me now02:11
MipsIrvyeah.. the keyboard and built in gps would be nice02:12
MipsIrvi hate carry extra stuff with me and i'd hate to have another keyboard.. external gps unit etc etc02:12
KotCzarnyjku: probably, but still, price difference is a killer02:12
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KotCzarnyi treat it more like a toy02:12
MipsIrvyeah.. it's the price that prevents me from owning one02:12
KotCzarnyand breaking 400$ toy can make me unhappy02:13
jkuextarnal gps is fine IMHO, just keep it in a pocket, but an external keyboard doesn't work on the move02:13
MipsIrvwell.. external gps does have its advantages.. especially when driving02:13
KotCzarnymips: external gps mean you can get it and reuse it later02:13
MipsIrvalright.. this multi-byte string thing is really annoying me02:14
MipsIrvi forgot how annoying cross-compiling was02:14
KotCzarnyand you can choose higher quality one too02:14
MipsIrvperhaps i will break down and just load the sandbox and sdk..02:14
KotCzarnyjku: maybe a kb with a holder for a n800? :)02:14
pupnikIf I had the money i'd take the N810 though.  Just aa great design02:15
MipsIrvhas anyone heard anything about the next device yet?02:15
KotCzarnymips: nope02:15
pupnikNothing leaked02:15
jkupupnik, they did an amazing job stuffing everything in it02:15
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pupnikwell except for the next N810 (N830?)02:15
pupnikthere are some pics of one with a black keyboard02:16
MipsIrvcurious why they did not abandon flash in the 800 for the root fs and just stick to SD02:16
KotCzarnypupnik: shopped i believe02:16
KotCzarnyand it's a 1 photo02:16
lcukjpeg glitch for a new face to same 81002:16
KotCzarnynot a glitch. shop.02:16
pupnikhow would you know?02:16
KotCzarnythey did it for purpose02:16
jkuKotCzarny, your smileys juts have no meaning anymore... you probably knew that though02:16
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KotCzarnyjku: huh? :)02:17
MipsIrvalright.. i need a break before i rm everything out of frustration02:17
jkuI suspect you have a smiley inserting script...02:17
KotCzarnyjku: nope. more like a permanent high02:17
pupnikMipsIrv: what are you doing?02:18
KotCzarnydoc: i don't know, bbl02:23
pupnikman 'The IT Crowd' had so much potential :"/02:26
pupnika commodore PET as a prop.02:26
shackanwhat is it?02:26
shackanyet another geek podcast?02:26
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pupnikshackan: no it was a short run tv sitcom from england02:43
milhouseProbably the same Commodore PET now showing in Ashes To Ashes...02:44
milhouseI used to programme one when I were a nipper... at school... my first experience of a "proper" computer after a Research Machines 380Z! :)02:45
pupnikwow strange plot02:46
pupniksame here, 198002:46
wazdDamned :) Whole world wakes up :) When Moscow has 4 am x(02:59
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KotCzarnynot really02:59
wazdNot really wakes or not really 4am?))03:00
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wazdWell, gotta go get some sleep :)03:01
wazdC ya all :)03:01
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MipsIrvlooks like wazd had nothing to worry about04:25
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doc|homeso, anyone got a way to do h.323 on OS 2008?04:39
pupniki did a bmw.323 in 199104:48
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dospodanyone want a gtk gnutella port05:10
dospodim getting a tip for my laptop chord tommorow, so i should get a vm set up and maybe a deb on friday05:15
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msh_hm. bugs.maemo giving mysql access denied errors - a known issue?05:35
KotCzarnybut you can mail administrators anyway05:35
KotCzarnymaybe then they will notice05:35
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christefanohas anyone seen their Airport Extreme die on a regular basis when an N8x0 goes online?06:13
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tank-manchristefano, not many here have a airport most likely06:21
christefanoit seems that way. I've asked a few times over the last week or so.06:22
christefanoyou're the first to respond :)  thanks06:22
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tank-manthis is the second time i've seen you ask :)06:22
christefanomy base station has been solid until the day I got my N81006:22
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tank-mani havent seen anyone else complain about their wifi routers with the n8x006:23
christefanohrmm. maybe it's just a coincidence06:24
milhousei seem to recall there being a few airport extreme related bugs in bugzilla... usually turns out to be buggy AE firmware06:24
christefanoit's running the latest firmware, but in any case it's annoying.06:24
KotCzarnylatest can be buggy too06:24
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doc|homeso, anyone got a way to do h.323 on OS 2008?07:06
rm_youis that video or audio? >_>07:06
KotCzarnysip probably07:07
rm_youdoes mplayer play it?07:08
KotCzarnyerm. i'm wrong07:08
KotCzarnybut just a little07:08
pupnikwow i changed some code and it compiles07:10
pupnikstill kind of shocking07:10
KotCzarnypupnik: lol07:10
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tank-manoh yea! i used g++ once instead of gcc and it compiled07:13
KotCzarnydoc|home: maybe this one can help you07:14
doc|homeKotCzarny: doesn't look like there's anything there for maemo :/07:17
doc|homeI'd happily use sip, but doesn't :/07:17
KotCzarnydoc: not true, many open source projects07:17
doc|homeKotCzarny: right, but clients for maemo?07:17
KotCzarnygrab the sdk and start compiling07:17
KotCzarnyif pupnik can do it, so can you!07:17
doc|homepupnik: get to it!07:17
pupnikthat's true07:17
KotCzarnydoc: basically, if it's open source and is running under linux then with 90% it will compile and run on maemo07:19
doc|homeyeah, but it's not a client07:19
pupniker, maybe 60%07:19
pupnikor 80%07:19
KotCzarnydoc, then add 'client' to the google search. eh.07:20
Navidoc|home, doesn't what?07:20
doc|homedoesn't work with the native sip client07:21
rm_youyes it does?07:21
rm_youI used it07:21
NaviI thought the rtcomm beta supported ekiga07:21
NaviI'm looking at it right now07:21
Naviit's in the drop down list07:21
rm_youi made video calls using it >_>07:22
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doc|homeNavi: it's there, but it doesn't fully work.07:22
KotCzarnywith n8x0 camera?07:22
doc|homeI can dial someone but no sound goes either way07:22
rm_youit works fine here07:22
KotCzarnywhat about quality?07:22
rm_youseems ok07:22
doc|homesorry, wrong chan07:22
rm_youwe were doing n800 to n800 :P07:22
doc|homeI'm doing desktop ekiga to rtcomm n80007:22
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rm_youi could try calling you on ekiga from my n800 :P07:23
doc|homesure, give me a minute :)07:23
pupnikad-hoc filesharing btwn tablets would be fun07:24
KotCzarnypupnik: thttpd ?07:25
rm_youdoc|home: just give me a number when you're ready07:26
doc|homehmmm, so, I just tested it again and it's working better for some reason, I can hear my desktop mic on the n800 but not the n800 mic on the desktop :/07:26
rm_youit's a little quirky about where you speak at it07:27
rm_youtry moving it around07:27
rm_youor speaking louder07:27
rm_youand see if it might be muted somewhere07:27
doc|homewhere's the mic?07:27
doc|homeyeah, I had the top almost in my mouth :)07:27
doc|homeand the mic's not muted in the software anyway07:28
Navitry out maemo recorder?07:28
doc|homerm_you: say something :)07:28
doc|homethe sip client, eeet dooo nuthink07:29
rm_youno audio or video?07:29
doc|homeI don't care about video to be honest07:29
rm_youpop your camera07:30
doc|homeI did07:30
doc|homeyou should be able to see my screen07:30
* doc|home is camera shy07:30
rm_youyou can't see my video either?07:30
doc|homecan you hear anything?07:31
doc|homesee? it fail!07:31
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rm_youwait... i'm not actually on RTCOM beta yet >_>07:31
doc|homethat's just as a plain sip client, not rtcomm07:31
rm_youi flashed recently07:31
doc|homebut is sip according to Navi07:31
rm_youso it didnt get installed07:32
rm_youyeah, it is07:32
doc|homeso it should work07:32
doc|homeweird, I'm not even getting the ekiga echo test working now07:32
* doc|home stabs07:33
* Navi bleeds07:34
rm_youmy tablet rebooted07:35
rm_youbut i *SAW* it finally07:35
KotCzarnysaw what?07:35
rm_youso... how do i make it STOP @*#($(@ing doing that07:35
rm_youit just randomly reboots07:35
rm_youlike three times a day07:35
rm_youfor the past month07:35
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KotCzarnyi have read about it lately07:35
rm_youannoying as hell, but it always hapens in my pocket07:35
rm_youso i don't see it07:35
rm_youbut it was sitting on my desk07:36
rm_youand it made a noise!07:36
rm_youand rebooted07:36
NaviI love it when it taps three times07:36
Naviwhen I've only tapped it once07:36
KotCzarnyi hate it when it opens microb when i click on 'control panel'07:36
KotCzarny(opens control panel too)07:37
solmumahaNavi: i hate that too. Are you using the latest firmware? (the one that fixes the boot problem) Someone at itt said it also fixes the touchscreen issue07:42
NaviYeah, latest07:43
solmumahak, so it doesn't fix it07:43
rm_youhavent seen the multi-crazytap issue with the newest on mine07:43
rm_youand i definately did have that issue before07:43
rm_youbut mine does still randomly reboot07:43
rm_youin fact, it just did it again07:43
rm_youand i hadnt even touched it since it booted last time07:43
rm_youit's just rebootlooping after about 5 minutes of idling07:44
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solmumahamaybe i can wait for diablo, but i think it's a feature that keeps coming back every now and then07:45
solmumahaand typing a longer message is a real pita07:46
Navifine for me07:46
NaviI just make sure to press hard when I type07:47
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rm_youhrm, so it makes a noise, the LED on the dpad blinks, the screen isn't responsive, and then it reboots after about 2 seconds07:56
rm_youi'm assuming it's watchdog doing that?07:56
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rm_youfuck. 6th reboot in 30 minutes. and i'm not even touching it.08:03
rm_youwhy does it keep doing this.08:03
KotCzarnyrm_you: overheating?08:03
KotCzarnyany abnormal activity?08:03
rm_youit's just been sitting on the desk..08:03
rm_youand it doesnt feel hot08:03
rm_younot even warm to the touch08:03
rm_youroom temperature >_>08:04
KotCzarnyfaulty ram?08:04
KotCzarnycorrupted fs?08:04
KotCzarnyflash os2007 ?08:04
rm_youi'll boot into debian08:05
rm_youi dont think it'll reboot08:05
rm_youif it does...08:05
rm_youthat would be sad08:05
rm_youi dont think its under warrantee08:05
KotCzarnyout of warranty?08:05
rm_youno idea...08:05
doc|homethat sucks :(08:05
rm_youi bought it used off ITT like... last July08:05
KotCzarnyyou can always sell it for parts08:05
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KotCzarnystylus 10$ each, screen, hum, 100$ ? ;) battery 10-20$, case 10-30$08:06
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* doc|home has dibs on the stylus!08:09
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KotCzarnydoc: you don't even know if he has the same model as you08:11
doc|homehe said he had an n80008:11
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rm_youwell, debian doesnt appear to be rebooting...08:14
rm_youso either it broke and doesnt have watchdog...08:15
rm_youOR it works :P08:15
KotCzarnymaybe your internal flash is corrupted?08:15
* doc|home is getting a stylus?!08:15
KotCzarnytry installing os2008 to mmc?08:15
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rm_youactually gonna try it without any SD cards08:17
rm_youthen will try cloning os2008 to sd08:17
rm_youi want to be working on my applet >_>08:17
rm_youbut i have to deal with this shit08:17
KotCzarnycheck if wd is running08:17
rm_youi never turned it off08:18
rm_youso i would guess it is08:18
rm_youcan i turn it off?08:18
KotCzarnyhave you enabled it in debian?08:18
rm_youin debian08:18
KotCzarnyit's not automatically enabled08:18
rm_youi thought we were talking about os2008 again08:18
rm_youhow can i disable watchdog in os2008?08:19
rm_youdo i need to flash?08:19
KotCzarnyi think it's proc/sys settable08:20
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KotCzarnyofftopic but nice:
doc|homethat's on-topic :)08:26
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KotCzarnyhow does it relate to rm_you's problem?08:26
* doc|home looks at the topic08:27
doc|homeno mention of rm_you there :)08:27
rm_youand wtf is this "USB device not supported" that pops up periodically (and once it is up, continues to pop up until i reboot the device)?!08:28
* doc|home has never had that08:28
doc|homerm_you: look, just be done with it and sell me your stylus...08:28
KotCzarnyrm_you: maybe your usb has some pins shorted?08:28
rm_youcould that also cause my reboot issue?08:29
KotCzarnyhave you played with host mode etc lately?08:29
rm_youother than I found that switching the mode back and forth between OTG and host sometimes makes it stop popping up the message08:30
KotCzarnylogin via ssh and monitor kernel messages?08:30
rm_youbut i didnt play with that until after it started popping up08:30
KotCzarnyThe watchdog can be disabled by way of the no-retu-wd flag accessible from the flasher tool.08:30
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rm_youso... i do have to flash08:31
KotCzarnynot flash08:31
KotCzarnyjust set a flag08:31
KotCzarnyusing a flasher08:31
rm_youthat is repeated infinitely in dmesg08:31
KotCzarnydefinitely some b0rkage there08:32
KotCzarnynot good08:32
rm_youswitching it to host mode makes the message stop08:33
rm_youand then it apparently SHUT OFF08:34
rm_younot rebooted... shut off entirely.08:34
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doc|homehow do you get the kernel messages? they're not in /var or /var/loh08:35
KotCzarnycat /proc/kmsg08:35
doc|homeah, thanks08:35
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rm_you<5>[   54.968750] JFFS2 notice: (412) check_node_data: wrong data CRC in data node at 0x0c32fa90: read 0x884c7b7c, calculated 0x1e11e874.08:36
KotCzarnyusual fun after reboot08:37
KotCzarnyi guess08:37
doc|homehmmm, when I try to run the sip client and call the ekiga test server the last message is EAC mode: play disabled, rec disabled and EAC mode: play enabled, rec enabled08:38
KotCzarnypower saving, ignore.08:38
rm_youhow are these apps using more than 100% of my memory <_<08:39
KotCzarnyrm_you: it's only virtual reservation08:40
KotCzarnynot actual usage08:40
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eichisomeone can give me a working qemu maemo sdk?08:42
* KotCzarny has only 128kbit uplink08:42
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KotCzarnyand my sdk is ~5G08:43
KotCzarnymay be cut to 300-500mb but still overkill for my dsl :>08:43
KotCzarnyechi: unpack vmware image?08:44
wom-eichi: and then everything works :)08:44
rm_youmaybe the rebooting has something to do with LCARS? >_> *grasps at straws*08:46
rm_youit is using 18% cpu while charging because of the animated charging icon, i believe08:46
KotCzarnyrm_you: flash a virgin os08:46
KotCzarnydon't restore anything08:46
KotCzarnyjust test it for a few hours08:47
rm_youi'm so sick of flashing <_<08:47
KotCzarnywhy? it's easy08:47
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KotCzarnyand quick08:47
rm_youand then setting up my stuff afterwards takes like 4 hours08:47
rm_youand i've done it 4 times in the last month08:48
KotCzarnymake a backup then08:48
rm_you2 of those were in one day >_>08:48
* KotCzarny still runs the same os as 2 weeks before08:48
rm_youyeah, and then i restore the backup and its broken again? >_>08:48
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KotCzarnyat least you will know it's something in your apps08:49
KotCzarnyor settings08:49
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pupnikheh solmumaha's JA2 sold one more N80008:57
KotCzarnypupnik: what about right click?08:58
pupnikscreenshots sell games, not usability :)08:58
KotCzarnyand then you get the feedback..08:58
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solmumahaKotCzarny: jagged has right click if that's what you mean09:00
KotCzarnysolmumaha: how do you simulate it on n800?09:00
solmumahaclick with menu button down09:00
KotCzarnysolmumaha: have you ever played ja2?09:00
KotCzarnyin fight mode right click is used ~4times per second09:01
KotCzarnymisread you09:02
solmumahai forgive you09:02
pupnik   A very good little photo series to show eedjots who compare N810 to the EEE or a laptop or a phone09:03
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KotCzarnyyeah, everything has it's uses09:04
KotCzarnyeven windows09:04
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qwerty12@pupnik, I know it's old but does your super mario war port run on os2008?09:07
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qwerty12Ok, thanks, I'll try it out. Your site doesn't mention any specific OS,09:09
pupniki'm slowly working through the library with updates09:10
qwerty12Oh right. Great amount of games though, thanks :)09:10
pupnikmm a fullsize wacom pen makes a sweet stylus09:15
zuhpupnik: hmh, that url is missing (photo) comparison with eepc. Though, it wouldn't be that much different from comparing to the macbook...09:15
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KotCzarnyisn't wacom pen magnetic?09:16
KotCzarnyzuh: still, point is made, you probably can't put eepc in a pocket09:16
pupnikdunno - nice plastic tip09:16
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zuhKotCzarny: Actually I did ;) but I'll admit that it was a big pocket and not that practical...09:17
zuhKept me warm in the winter chill tho! :P09:17
KotCzarnyzuh, i would prefer better jacket09:17
KotCzarnyno risk of running out of batteries ;)09:18
zuhThose things run quite hot09:18
zuhYeah well, my N800 warned me periodically (2-5mins apart) that "oh no, battery is low!" and indeed, after another hour or so of watching videos and listening to music it did die.09:19
zuhI wish the battery state would be a bit more useful in that thing09:20
KotCzarnyzuh: i'm working on it09:20
KotCzarnybut getting correct estimation is quite hard with accus09:21
qwerty12Lol, the recharge battery thing pisses me off. At least give me a proper 10 second warning like my PPC did instead of 3 random battery low's before :(09:21
KotCzarnyqwerty: you should reconnect charger after first 'battery low'09:22
pupniki'd love a cheap external charger09:22
pupnikkeep 2 spare batteries full for on-the-go09:22
KotCzarnybecause applying load will drain it very quickly09:22
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KotCzarnypupnik: make one09:23
qwerty12KotCzarny: True. But I'm lazy :(, sniff sniff09:23
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KotCzarnylooks better than before09:34
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* pupnik ~wibbles~09:40
* KotCzarny codes09:41
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batiestutaGood afternoon everyone! I want to ask you a question. How can i check the gcc version used to build Nokia-N800- 2.6.21-omap1. Thanks10:14
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KotCzarnyit's probably 3.4.410:15
batiestutaMy program uses a kernel module, so I want to use scratchbox to build the kernel module and also the program itself. Where do I find some instruction on how to the above stuff? Thanks10:17
KotCzarnybatiestuta: you can safely use gcc that comes with sdk10:17
jkubatiestuta, -> Documentation?10:19
jkubatiestuta, especially
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JaffaMorning, all10:41
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Italodancewho is from maemo website staff here?11:01
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AStormi guess no one is11:06
Italodancetnx :D11:06
Italodancei can't download from maemo yet11:07
Italodancei send them 3 emails11:07
Italodancelol :p11:08
ItalodanceAStorm where are u from>?11:08
Italodancei think i am only from ASIA here!11:08
Italodancewho's from asia too?11:08
AStormuhm, Poland?11:08
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Italodanceummm how Media_Converter_Windows_1.43  can works?11:14
Italodanceit is a java/?/?/11:14
Italodancei didn't work on my win11:14
pupnikSun Java 1.4 or later needed.11:16
Italodanceyes i have xp sp211:16
pupnikuse any program, reduce video resolution to <= 400 wide and <=240 high11:17
ItalodanceSargun lol IT didn't work on my win11:17
pupnikand it will probably play well11:17
pupnik... with mplayer11:18
Sargunuse mencoder11:18
Italodancei have Internet Tablet Video Converter and it is very good for me11:18
Italodancethe problem is for h264 it can't read to convert11:18
pupnikahh i have no h26411:19
Italodanceh264 = x264 = *.mkv = bluray convert11:19
Italodancepupnik are u on playing the games?11:20
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pupniki play them a little bit11:21
Italodancewith ur tablet?11:22
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Italodancei need ur teach can u help me?11:24
pupnika little, yes11:25
Italodancei installed deb file of shadow walker into my internal n800 mmmc11:26
Italodancei can seec the icon but it doesn't work11:27
Italodancei don't understand this:  /media/mmc[1-2]/share/sw and put sw.grp, sw.rts11:27
pupnikok well either use mmc1, or use mmc211:29
AStormmmc1 is the internal one11:29
pupnikthe game will work if you use mmc111:29
pupnikthe game will work if you use mmc211:29
pupnikit is a very smart game11:30
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Italodanceummm so it is not important to add sw.grp, sw.rts in mmc1 or mmc2?11:31
Italodancesw.deb is installed on my internal mmmc  (256) n800 and icon is available on n800 os 200811:32
Italodancebut where are  sw.grp, sw.rts and where can i add them? to my other mmmc sd ?11:33
AStormbtw, how do i install apps on a disk other than internal 256 mb?11:37
pupnikyou configure the device to boot from mmc11:38
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aquatixmorning all11:47
AStormpupnik, i don't know if i want that11:48
AStormit's N810 though11:48
KotCzarnyastorm: yes, you want11:49
AStormany howto?11:49
pupnikor you can symlink something static to mmc11:49
pupniklike /usr/local/share or /usr/share11:50
pupnikas a stopgap11:50
AStormbonus points if that includes info on building debs for maemo11:50
AStormwant to build recent gcc for it11:50
KotCzarnyastorm: booting from mmc will save internal flash11:50
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AStorm(yeah, need a crosscompiler, not a problem)11:50
KotCzarnywhich is not replaceable11:50
AStormKotCzarny, but i have 2 internal flashes ;p11:51
AStorm256 and 204811:51
AStormyeah, N81911:52
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KotCzarnyyou have 1 internal flash and 1 internal mmc slot (and 1 external mmc slot in n800)11:52
AStormheh, n810 ofc11:52
AStormbut the internal mmc slot is a flash chip11:52
AStormon n81011:52
Italodancei can play duke nowb :D11:53
KotCzarnyi'm talking about replaceable flash (mmc) and not replaceable (internal flash)11:53
AStormwell, i want to keep media on replaceable one11:55
AStormit's a pity they axed the second mmc slot11:55
pupniknice Italodance :)11:56
AStormok, have to prepare my gentoo for crossing11:57
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cyberholicyippie ya yo!14:41
liridoes anyone have experience with using maemo-mapper or another gps program and (which is based on RoadMap) ?14:44
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cyberholichey people, i have not receive any critics from you about my latest n800/n810 wallpapers.... are they soooo ugly???14:54
wom-where are they? :)14:55
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mbufhow do i get the source code of kagu from
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jkumbuf -> "developers"15:00
mbufjku, ohh! Thanks! didn't see the project page before15:03
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo15:04 :)15:06
disq(oh, hi)15:06
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BTobotras100 downloads and no comments. Weird that nobody out of those 100 tried ot use :)15:35
jkuBTobotras, of  what?15:37
BTobotrasjku: of small utility I've hacked out15:38
cyberholicthat's something i also realized :)15:39
BTobotrasBut the question is purely theoretical15:40
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magicrobotmonkeyis down?15:51
magicrobotmonkeynm, BTobotras hhtps link just didnt work15:52
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BrainsHrm...  Any chance that the SDK's memory requirement (256MB) is inflated...15:55
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BTobotrasmagicrobotmonkey: s/https/http/16:22
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Italodancei am crying :'''(17:13
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Italodancemaemo doesn't help me why?17:15
Italodancei am alone :''(17:15
Italodancewhy for what?17:16
Italodancei bought only an nokia n80017:16
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cyberholicQuestion: does anyone of you know of a videocapture tool for my n800? I am not asking for screencapture, i want to records some video....17:20
qwerty12Is the name of the prog :P17:20
qwerty12Oh wait, do you mean with inbuilt camera?17:21
cyberholicwell... i want to record the "things "that i do on my maemo so that i can upload it to youtube. In detail: i want to make a "what is" tutorial video.17:22
qwerty12If you mean record video with built in camera, then videocapture would work. If you mean the actual screen, then I dont think there is. Unless you run VNC and record it on your comp17:22
cyberholicyeah.... VNC could be a solution.....17:22
qwerty12BTW: Great work with mojocafe :)17:22
cyberholicthanks a lot :) ... have you checked the weather mojo?17:22
qwerty12:) I've looked at it but I use OMWeather so I'm in 2 minds (sorry)17:23
cyberholicItalo... scuzi... why are you crying?17:23
Italodancecyberholic read up :(17:23
qwerty12But the webcams and the clocks are great :), thanks :)17:23
cyberholicqwerty: *gg* ... OMWeather is niiiiiiice. .... yeah, one of my mojos is the NewYork Webcam..... never been there but i love it :)17:24
cyberholicitalo: what do you mean? maemo does not help you?17:24
qwerty12Same here :). But in London, lol very busy :D17:24
Italodanceis there someone from maemo website?17:24
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cyberholicqwerty: you want me to add a london webcam?17:24
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b0r0lassaludos... alguien que hable español para un par de preguntas?17:24
Italodancei am can see only this message on maemo downloads17:25
ItalodanceAuthorization Required17:25
ItalodanceThis server could not verify that you are authorized to access the document17:25
Italodancerequested. Either you supplied the wrong credentials (e.g., bad password), or17:25
Italodanceyour browser doesn't understand how to supply the credentials required.17:25
ItalodanceApache/1.3.33 Server at Port 8017:25
cyberholicborolas: solo un pouco... soy portugues.17:25
Italodanceabout 4 days after my buy17:25
qwerty12@cyberholic , Ok, then please  :). Thanks :)17:25
Italodancei need maemo for my n80017:25
Italodanceplease help and fix it17:25
cyberholicItalodance: have you clicked on the DOWNLOADS and then choosen a software?17:25
Italodancenoone can work17:25
sp3000Italodance: you could ask on the list or file a bug with specifics17:26
cyberholicwhat do you mean with "i need maemo" on my n800... ?17:26
qwerty12@cyberholic If you use VNC, I would recommend penguinbait's version. It runs RDP server too. If you don't need RDP, Mike Saunby's version works great too17:26
cyberholicItalo: can you visit this site with your device and download Vagalume?
qwerty12@Italodance, give me a link that gives you the authrisation message17:26
Italodancecyberholic i can't download nothing apps games...for my n80017:26
b0r0lasi need something like "smart list to go" for n80017:26
Italodanceexample i want canola but can't17:26
cyberholicqwerty: what exactly is RDP?17:26
qwerty12Remote Desktop. Do you use Linux or Windows?17:27
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Italodancefriends look here :   my problem is on Comment #217:27
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qwerty12Its some Microsoft Thing that lets you connect to another windows computer as a different user17:27
cyberholicqwerty: win xp17:27
Italodancei sent 3 emails to maemo yesterday but doidn't reply from them yet :(17:27
cyberholicitalo: do not spam them.... that wont make it faster.17:28
Italodanceqwerty12  i use IE and Firefox on my   pc  and use my n800 opera too17:28
Italodancecyberholic sorry i am sad..can u feel me?17:28
qwerty12Ok, With VNC, you see what is exactly on the screen, who is logged in at the time. With Remote Desktop, you can log into another computer remotely as another user and not see what another logged in person is doing17:28
cyberholicqwerty: ah ok, thanks. but i think that i do not need that. I used VNC years ago and think that that will make it.... will install it right now on my device :)17:28
qwerty12Cool :)17:28
cyberholicItalo: well.... to tell you the truth i can NOT feel you and that feels great because if i would feel you, my mum would delete my name for her testament.17:29
cyberholic*my mum is very catholic*17:29
Italodanceqwerty12 example
qwerty12Yep, it works in London :(17:30
Italodanceyes but here no :(17:30
qwerty12Have you tried another computer that is on another ISP?17:30
cyberholicBoroloas: is that some kind of To Do List? .... eso es un pouco como uma lista de cosas para hazer?17:30
VeggenItalodance: what you need is a proxy.17:30
Veggen(I guess)17:30
cyberholicItalo: have you tried to turn you computer on and off again?17:31
ItalodanceVeggen no i don't use any proxy17:31
Italodancecyberholic yes lol  i tried to download from there with my n800 too and saw this message again17:31
cyberholicvery strange....17:31
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Italodancethis is on my both device pc and n80017:32
Italodanceyes i am crying....17:32
cyberholicqwerty: do you know if the vnc viewer also works on chinook aka os2008 ?17:32
qwerty12It works but no keyboard :(17:32
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cyberholicItalo: are you from rome?17:32
qwerty12So if you have N800 like me, very annoying17:32
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Italodancehope maemo reply me as soon as possible and fix it for me17:32
* sp3000 doesn't find it strange in light of comment 4 and traceroute, fwiw17:32
qwerty12But you can see and control with mouse another computer17:33
Italodancecyberholic no i am from Iran (Persia)17:33
cyberholicDon't you have somewhere a WLAN coffee shop or something like that where you could try it from there?17:33
Italodancecyberholic i told u  i use my n800 wlan on other places and just saw it again17:34
cyberholicah ok. strange.17:34
qwerty12Italodance: Try this link :
Italodancei know the problem is from maemo website and they must help me cos i need my n80017:34
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cyberholicah, ok. i can not download VNC Viewer for os2008... incompatible application package..... I AM CRYING TOO NOW *loool*17:36
qwerty12Where are you getting it from? I had it once upon a flash on N800 OS200817:37
cyberholici tried it from the website but now i#ll try it from the application manager17:37
b0r0lascyberholic, es para manejar base de datos17:38
cyberholicstrange... does not find it.17:38
cyberholicborolas: entiendes un pouco de mysql? ... do you understand a bit of MySql?17:38
qwerty12I'll take a look, I know fo sure, I had a chinook version :P17:38
b0r0lascyberholic, yes... but i'm searching something with gui17:39
cyberholicah ok....17:39
Italodanceqwerty12 works17:40
qwerty12All  you need is a proxy :)17:40
b0r0lasi'm searching a database gui17:40
qwerty12The example, I used (the-cloak) is really crap. Limits etc17:40
Italodanceummm but please look here gives authorization request error on "yu" domain ??????17:40
Italodancei think maemo should open it for my country???17:41
cyberholichow can i found out quickly whether i have bora or chinook? or anything else?17:41
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qwerty12I dont understand, sorry. Bora=200717:42
cyberholic*find out* i mean17:42
cyberholicqwerty: ah, sorry my failure. i just checked that VNC does not exist for chinook....
qwerty12@cyberholic, try
qwerty12That was the deb I used so I'm sure it works17:43
qwerty12If it doesn't, install in red-pill or with dpkg17:44
cyberholicbut is that not only the client to view a different computer... i want to view the n800 screen on my pc....17:44
qwerty12Yes it is17:44
qwerty12Wait a sec :)17:44
qwerty12Does having a vnc password on the connection matter?17:45
qwerty12There are 2 releases of vnc server for chinook17:45
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cyberholicoh... my girlfriend is calling... be back in a few minutes..... *sounds like trouble*17:45
qwerty12gl :D17:45
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Italodanceqwerty12 tell me where is red-pill?17:46
qwerty121 is just VNC without password support the other one is VNC with password support but also comes with RDP support.17:46
cyberholicif i am not back in 20 minutes let me tell you: it was nice with you! i love you! good by cruel world!17:46
qwerty12Lol, I want more mojo's :P. Dont go yet :P :)17:46
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Italodanceqwerty12 please can u tell me about red-pill or with dpkg?17:46
Italodanceand dpkg?17:47
qwerty12dpkg, search it up on internet tablet talk. if you cannot login as root, its a bit long to set up17:47
Italodancei am as Italodance there :D17:48
qwerty12Cool :)17:48
qwerty12I'm qwerty12 there too :D17:48
Italodance:D i know u heheh17:48
* qwerty12 sets away. I have to compile experimental kernel for my N80017:49
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qwerty12@cyberholic, if you make it back :P, "1 is just VNC without password support the other one is VNC with password support but also comes with RDP support.", tell me which one you want :D17:52
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pope523I used an SD card reader on my XP machine to put some files on my SD card and now my N800 says it's corrupted. I put it back in the card reader on my PC and it's still readable there. Any ideas how I can fix it?18:00
qwerty12Have you tried "scanning the disk"?18:00
wompope523: format it in N800?18:00
qwerty12I'm in Linux right now so I cant really help.18:00
pope523I only know a little about Linux, but in terminal it says it can't find fsck18:00
qwerty12On the N800 itself?18:00
pope523qwerty12: Yes18:01
||cwinstall ext2tools18:01
||cwor utils or something18:01
pope523wom: I'd like to avoid formatting if possible18:01
qwerty12I think put it back in card reader and tell windows to scan it18:01
||cwph, vfat as well18:01
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qwerty12fscking it on the N800 itself is a bit weird, let me look it up18:01
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qwerty12@pope523 Put the card back in the card reader please and tell me what letter windows gives the card please?18:04
qwerty12Go to start> run and type "cmd" and run it. In the dos window type in chkdsk F: /f18:06
pope523"Windows has checked the file system and found no problems."18:07
Italodancewhat is mnotify_2.0.3_armel?18:08
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qwerty12chkdsk F: /r ?18:08
qwerty12Do you have a swap file on the memory card by any chance?18:08
pope523qwerty12: Not that I know of18:09
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qwerty12I'm not really sure then. Try chkdsk F: /r18:09
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pope523qwerty12: It's running still18:09
qwerty12Oh, sorry18:09
pope523qwerty12: Same, no problems found18:10
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qwerty12That's odd. My N800 would say the memory card was corrupt if I had made a dodgy .swap on the Memory card when the MMC wasnt corrupt itself18:10
cyberholicok... i am back aka survied it :)18:11
qwerty12"@cyberholic, if you make it back :P, "1 is just VNC without password support the other one is VNC with password support but also comes with RDP support.", tell me which one you want :D"18:12
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cyberholicnah, i dont need passwordzzzzz for this....i hope :) ..... must i then install the "standard" VNC for windows on my xp ?18:13
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qwerty12This server will work fine :
qwerty12You can use any vnc client18:13
qwerty12I like tightvnc, you can get it in just the viewer w/out installing anything18:14
cyberholicsounds great!18:14
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pope523qwerty12: Oh, it looks like it's saying both my SD cards are corrupt, so it's a system thing and not a card thing18:16
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pope523and reformatting in the n800 doesn't seem to do anything18:17
qwerty12And you are sure you have no swap file?18:17
qwerty12Check in memory applet in control panel on device18:18
pope523On the Virtual tab it says there is no Internal memory card18:19
pope523Here's something else...18:19
Veggenqwerty: I found it useful to have dosfstools or similar cross-compiled on it.18:19
pope523I backed up the data from teh crad in my external slot, put it back in the n800 and reformatted it18:19
pope523It still says it's corrupt18:19
Veggenand umount, fsck.vfat and mount again, manually.18:19
pope523and the files are still there when I put it back in my XP machine18:19
qwerty12@Veggen dosfstools - thats a good idea, thanks :)18:20
qwerty12What happens if you format the card but do not put the data back?18:21
pope523qwerty12: I didn't put the data back, it was still there18:21
qwerty12Even after a format?18:22
pope523Veggen: the cards don't seem to be mounted in the first place, fsck.vfat doesn't indicate any errors18:22
pope523qwerty12: Yes18:22
pope523qwerty12: After formatting in the n80018:22
qwerty12What about formatting it with computer?18:23
Veggenpope523: I think it actually needs a -f argument or such to fsck.vfat18:24
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Veggenbtw, untested but just-compiled dosfstools (should work) here:
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qwerty12Gronmayer lists dosfstools in Maemo Chinook & its already installed on my device according to apt-get ? :\18:26
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Veggenoh, wait. it's perhaps already installed.18:26
Veggenqwerty: hmm, it wasn't in the OS2007, I think ;)18:27
qwerty12:) . I've only ever used OS2008 on my N800. When I got my N800, OS2008 was already out :D18:28
qwerty12fsck.vfat exists on OS200818:28
qwerty12at least on my N80018:28
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pope523qwerty12: fsck.vfat is on here, but didn't give me any errors. However, I think that it's reading the cards again but I'm not sure what did it. "Cleared while testing" and all that.18:30
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pope523Yeah I restarted it again (which I had done before since this all started) and now it's mounting and reading files on both cards.18:31
pope523Thanks for the help18:31
pope523Linux drives me nuts :)18:31
pope523But at least it gives me something to do18:31
qwerty12Lol, same here. But I'm getting very used to Linux. I've spent ages "pimpin" up my Ubuntu and my scratchbox :D18:32
qwerty12I haven't been in Windows for days :)18:32
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||cwit'll be years before you know it18:33
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qwerty12I pressed Quit 8-)18:33
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cyberholic*mpfh* vnc can not establish a connection to my server..... :(18:34
Proteouswhat kind of server?18:34
qwerty12Thats odd, it worked for me. Is your router forwarding ports?18:35
VeggenI think Linux is actually easier to learn than windows.18:35
VeggenIt's just that people that tries the transition didn't have that high expectations of themselves when they started with Windows.18:35
cyberholicnah.... i just checked that..... ill have to forward them but i am afraid of doing so... what if the web connection cancels i will never ever be able to talk to you again *sad*18:35
pope523Veggen: Well, since I've been using Windows since 1991 and only used Linux off and on for the last 6 or 7 years, it's hard for me to say18:35
Veggenthey expect to be able to be at the same level in Linux in just days when doing the transition to Linux.18:36
qwerty12@cyberholic No harm in you forwarding ports :D18:36
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qwerty12I do it on my DG834GT all the time18:36
Veggenpope523: exactly.18:36
qwerty12@Veggen, I agree :)18:36
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jottthere are very few unbiased people as most people have been using windows for years18:36
jottand got used to its very very strange patterns18:36
Veggenjott: mm, true. I'm sort of opposite, though, I've never really learnt Windows thourougly, always had Unix or Linux as my primary desktop-platform.18:37
Veggenjott: I find Windows difficult to use.18:37
jottVeggen: i also find windows difficult to use in comparision to *nix based systems18:37
qwerty12I'm pretty good with both. But all the stuff I do in Windows, I realise I can do in Linux too. Except for playing games (I have ati so fglrx for me)18:38
jottbut we are in a minority :)18:38
pope523Linux has given me major problems every time I tried to use it as my primary OS. I installed Gentoo on my laptop. ACPI didn't work and unbeknownst to me wasn't swicthing on my case fan so I burned up a HD, and there wasn't anywhere to program my wireless LAN's WEP key. I had to reeenter the WEP key manually every time I rebooted18:38
pope523The solution that was suggested to me was that I should write a script to run on startup to set my WEP key18:38
jottpope523: well gentoo is not really a distribution aimed at enduser usability more at professional users18:39
qwerty12My Ubuntu was like that with ndiswrapper but when I edited a forgotten conf file to modprobe ndiswrapper, all I have to do is ifdown wlan0 & bring it up again18:39
qwerty12it connects faster then my windows too.18:39
Veggenpope523: oh, on beginner-polish, Windows has always been rather slick. It's the moment that something doesn't work like they thought it should that you realize that Windows is difficult.18:39
jottand i got a wlan card that is not supported by windows...18:39
pope523It just seems like Linux is great for hobbyists and people who want to screw with their computer to get things to work right, but it never works right for me out-of-the-box.18:40
pope523Veggen: Windows has never seems difficult to me :)18:40
jottso when you have hardware that is supported (i.e. vendors that open specs) everything is usually much easier than under windows18:40
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pope523a wlan card not supported by Windows??18:41
pope523You're joking18:41
jottxp that is18:41
qwerty12That's what I thought :D18:41
jottit was supported by 9818:41
pope523That's the weirdest thing I've ever heard18:41
qwerty12Does the win2k (if any) work?18:41
jottna nt18:41
aquatixsame with my old-ish scanner18:41
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pope523Scanners not having new drivers, I believe18:42
aquatixworks fine under linux though18:42
jottno nt.. as the riva128 only works in vesa mode under nt18:42
aquatixooh, riva128, those where the times18:42
* aquatix had one too18:42
jottbut still people crying that their hw is not running under linux.. they just bought the wrong hw18:43
jottor support the wrong vendor18:43
jottits just pathetic - when a hw is not supported under linux its linux fault, if the hw is not supported under windows its the vendors fault18:43
jottits  almost *always* the vendors fault18:44
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jott(open specs, release own driver, etc etc)18:44
pope523If hardware isn't supported under Windows (XP at least), it's because it should be in a museum :)18:44
qwerty12I really hate TI (not rapper :P), they make chipsets on N800 closed and my wifi card is closed to (has ti chipset) :(18:45
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desertcHi all - thanks for all your work, Maemo developers.18:46
cyberholichi desertc :)18:46
qwerty12Hi :)18:47
desertcI have a question.  The only thing I cannot really do with my N800 right now (that is really essential to me) is give presentations.18:47
cyberholicwait.... you mean your n800 can cook and wash your laundry?18:47
desertcDoes anyone have suggestions on how I might be able to run a 'Powerpoint' style presentation on a N800?18:47
pope523The screen is awfully small for giving presentations.18:47
jottpope523: why should one buy a new scanner if the old one works etc? but as stated its the vendors fault if drivers are missing for any os (be it win, osx, bsd, linux etc) so complain about the hardware not the os18:48
desertc:)  yes, but with a laptop you can dock it to a projector so everyone can see the screen18:48
cyberholicdesertc: try PDF.... the new PDF version also allows animation and "next chart" and "prev chart" and even autoslide18:48
desertccyberholic: But how do you get the video out of the device?18:48
cyberholicthat is exactly what i am trying right now and qwerty is helping me very much... the solution is called VNC18:49 and enter VNC18:49
desertcI am familiar with VNC18:49
cyberholicor (or something like tthat)18:49
desertcSo, you are saying, the easiest way to do this is to run a remote desktop on another computer18:49
cyberholicthere exists a VNC viewer for the device18:49
desertcIf I had another computer, then I could just run the presentation on THAT computer18:50
cyberholicas far as i know at the moment yes.18:50
qwerty12@desertc I think the NoBounds project would suit you. If it does get released18:50
desertcIs there any way to run the video out the USB cable?18:51
desertcTo my knowledge, there are no other I/O ports on the N80018:52
desertc... there is the SDCard slot, of course, which is a super open standard ...18:52
desertc... but it's not asynchronous.18:52
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pope523desertc: This is the previously mentioned nobounds project:
desertcThanks for the link18:54
desertcOh yeah!  That's what I am looking to do18:54
jottsneak into the bochum labs and steal the stuff :)18:54
desertchaha ... over the WLAN nice18:54
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qwerty12@jott, I'll put on my ski mask...18:55
qwerty12But cyberholic is in Germany, I'm in the UK :P18:55
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qwerty12:D :)18:56
cyberholicgeeesus... can not establish a VNC server connection even after port forwarding... would be nice if you all could call me a "looser", that might help!18:56
desertcActually, now that I think about it -- it would be 10 pounds of awesome to be able to put my N800 display on my monitor through the USB interface, just for regular home use.18:57
pope523desertc: VNC :)18:57
pope523cyberholic: Are you tryng to run VNC as client or server on your tablet?18:57
Mouseyunless you're a looser, of course18:57
qwerty12@cyberholic: Tried the problems sections here
desertcWell, the thing with VNC is the N800 would have to run the server-side software 24/718:57
sKaBoydesertc, n800/n810 support usb host mode.. maybe a usb-vga adapter work?18:57
cyberholicthanks guys! i am trying it as client.... i want to show the device desktop on my pc18:58
desertcsKaBoy: nice idea -- researching...18:58
qwerty12Remove the question mark from my link :)18:58
pope523cyberholic: Are you on the same subnet as your server?18:58
desertcI have had the suspicious that running server side software like SSH and VNC will reduce the battery time on the N800.  Is that a correct assumption?18:58
cyberholicdunno :( ... sorry i am not a pro in server-management. ....18:58
jottor this vga sdio thingie :)18:59
qwerty12I actually use penguinbaits version so I'm not really acquainted  with Mike's port18:59
pope523cyberholic: Are your tablet and PC connected to the same LAN or are you trying to connect over the Internets or something?18:59
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cyberholicthey are on the same LAN. I am in front of my router settings--virtual-servers and it asks me for a public and a private address *?*19:00
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pope523cyberholic: If both machines are on the same LAN, you don't need to do anything to your router. Port forwarding should be unnecessary19:00
qwerty12@cyberholic Which router do you have?19:00
qwerty12@pope, my netgear still makes me forward on the same lan :(19:01
cyberholicbut it is a W-LAN connection, does that matter?19:01
pope523cyberholic: Are you trying to connect to your PC by entering it's IP or it's name?19:01
cyberholicthe IP19:01
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pope523qwerty12: Really? There's a firewall between your LAN clients?19:01
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cyberholicmy mum is between my LAN clients :(19:01
qwerty12pope523: yep :(. I cannot disable it19:01
qwerty12Unless I telnet into it and hack with iptables19:02
pope523qwerty12: That seems sort of bizarre to me19:02
cyberholici can not disable my mum too *:(19:02
pope523cyberholic: MOST routers, your WLAN clients and ethernet clients on the Private side are on a single subnet and not isolated from each other19:02
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pope523cyberholic: That should mean no forwarding is necessary19:03
pope523cyberholic: Can you ping your PC from your tablet?19:03
cyberholicpope: thanks! when i check the VNC icon, it tells me my IP 192.168 etc.... i thought that all i needed was to enter that IP on my device when asked for VNC Server19:03
vivijimhey jott, where are your linux-omap patch?  The requested URL /rotate/Updated_blizzard_rotation_support.diff was not found on this server.19:03
pope523Ah, you were entering the IP for your tablet?19:03
cyberholicno, i was entering the IP showing on my WinXP inside the "VNC server" dialog of my n800.19:04
qwerty12Is it working now ? :)19:04
qwerty12:(, damn lol19:05
pope523cyberholic: Do you know how to ping?19:05
qwerty12Restart your N800 and run from terminal on N800 please19:05
cyberholicwell... could you tell me the exact ping command19:05
pope523cyberholic: Try to ping the IP shown on the VNC icon on your PC19:05
pope523qwerty12: He's trying to use the VNC client on the tablet, I thought19:06
pope523cyberholic: ping <ip address>19:06
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qwerty12I'm confused, I thought he wanted to run server on tablet and connect from computer19:06
pope523cyberholic: Are you trying to see your PC from your tablet, or see your tablet from your PC?19:06
qwerty12cyberholic: any chance of clearing this up? :P :D19:06
cyberholicpope: you are correct! i am using the VNC Viewer on n800. And then i installed VNC on my WinXP. And i want to see my tablet on my WinXP... sorry for my bad english explanation :)19:06
qwerty12Wrong way round it seems to me.19:07
pope523You want to see and control the tablet, from your Windows XP desktop.19:07
cyberholicping works correctly.19:07
qwerty12If you want to see tablet on pc, then you install server on N800 and client on XP :)19:07
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cyberholicpoe: yes correct19:07
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qwerty12If you want to see XP on tablet, server on pc and client on N80019:07
cyberholicqwerty: ARGH... i am such an idiot! that could it be!19:08
pope523cyberholic: On the PC, did you install the VNC Client AND Server?19:08
cyberholicpope: yep19:08
desertcEverywhere I take my N800, people are always asking me about it and wanting to buy one.  It's so terrific to see Linux and Free Software driving such an obviously effective device.19:08
pope523cyberholic: On the N800, have you installed the x11vnc package?19:08
cyberholicdesertc: then you have a new reason to show them how cool it can be: check out my new project at www.mojocafe.de19:08
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cyberholicpope: not yet...19:09
qwerty12mojocafe pwns :)19:09
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pope523cyberholic: Ok, install x11vnc19:09
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pope523It is the VNC server for the n80019:09
cyberholicpope: can i install it through the garage?19:09
pope523cyberholic: I do believe so19:09
qwerty12Nah the link I gave
qwerty12x11vnc isnt in garage19:09
desertchehe - used a lot of flash - and I just use Gnash on my desktop.  The new features in Flash (action script 3) do not work for me.19:09
cyberholicqwerty: thnx.19:09
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cyberholicpope: let me guess your answer to "how can i thank you". Answer: "3 times Ave Maria and 2 times praying to Santo Domingo!" ;)19:10
pope523qwerty12: On the contrary :)
pope523cyberholic: Hah19:11
qwerty12Oh my bad >.<, thanks :)19:11
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qwerty12Same deb file though :) (I must make my comeback :P :D)19:11
cyberholictouché i mean.19:11
desertccyberholic: Okay, the web page works on my N800.  It brings me to a login prompt.  What now?19:11
cyberholicdesertc: you have to visit the page with your desktop PC first and add some Mojos aka applets to your profile.19:12
cyberholicThen visit the page on your device and start the widgets.19:12
desertccyberholic: I guess I am stuck without access to Adobe's Flash.  There's no version for 64-bit linux.19:12
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cyberholicdesertc: correct.... that's sad.19:13
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cyberholicdesertc: If you want to know what you are missing: ..... but there are more then 30 Mojos aka appletts available.19:13
desertcno Adobe Flash for 64-bit Windows either, not that I care.19:13
desertccyberholic: So Mojocafe is access to a bunch of Flash widgets?19:14
qwerty12Very good looking ones :D19:15
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pope523That are specifically designed to run on the Nokia IT's19:15
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desertcSpeaking of Flash - does anyone else have the issue of YouTube videos playing such that the video does not catch up with the audio?19:15
qwerty12I believe Flash on Linux has problems anyway :(19:15
pope523Lots of problems19:15
cyberholicdesertc: yeah. You choose them on your desktop PC and add them to your profile. Then you start them on your device and have some kind of "full screen screensaver" while your device is on your desk, shelf, table or whatever. This way you can have, for example, the NY Times Worldnews in fullscreen readable.19:16
qwerty12I was on a page and you wont believe the slowdown my firefox went through. In XP MCE, it works fine :(19:16
desertcmaybe Maemo could throw their support behind Gnash - or that other Flash alternative (forget the name)19:16
||cwdesertc: all the time, on various desktops too19:16
desertccyberholic: nice!19:17
pope523desertc: I'm sure there's a petition somewhere. The N800 would be terrible useful for video blogging if the who Flash/video4linux thing worked right19:17
cyberholicThats why i am trying to start up VNC - i want to make an introduction Video of this service.19:17
desertcoh, the other GPL flash player alternative is called, "Swfdec", which some consider more useful19:17
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qwerty12pope523: To say you aren't as good as linux as windows, your knowledge surprises (in a good way :)) me19:18
cyberholicpope & qwerty: that is strange! i start x11vnc but nothing happens :(19:18
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pope523cyberholic: No, it started19:18
qwerty12It's not meant to say anything on the tablet itself19:18
cyberholicah ok. thankx.19:19
pope523cyberholic: Now find the Ip for your tablet19:19
pope523cyberholic: And try to connect to it19:19
pope523qwerty12: I've done a lot of reading to find out why I can't do the things I want to with Linux :)19:19
cyberholicthat reminds me of ....*i should layout a IP MOJO*19:19
pope523qwerty12: Like why there is no way to record video from the n800 that will play right anywhere else without transcoding19:19
qwerty12Ahh I see :), cool :)19:20
cyberholiccan i use the ping comand on my tablet somewhere like xterminal?19:20
pope523cyberholic: Yes, but that won't tell you your tablet's IP and that's what you need at the moment19:20
desertcHad some Apple iPhone guy explaining to me why his closed, proprietary device was better because he could enlarge photos with the two-finger touch screen.  I was like -- but I don't look at photos with my N800... ?  :)19:20
cyberholicah ok....
pope523cyberholic, probably not19:21
pope523cyberholic That would probably give you your router's public IP19:21
qwerty12@cyberholic Run ifconfig | grep inet19:21
cyberholicpope: correct!19:21
qwerty12on your tablet19:21
cyberholicqwerty: i am running! lol.19:21
cyberholicwhere can i run that?19:21
||cwisn't ehre still a home screen plugin for that?19:21
qwerty12@cyberholic in terminal :)19:22
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DaniloCesar||cw, yes19:22
cyberholicis that an app?19:22
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jkuno ifconfig in default install19:22
jkuwhy don't you check the connection manager UI?19:22
jkunot there19:22
cyberholiciphome not found :)19:22
pope523le sigh19:22
qwerty12It is installed on my OS2008 and I didnt install any extra wireless tools but do what jku says :)19:22
pope523It shouldn't be this hard19:22
qwerty12jku is right, check the connection manager19:23
DaniloCesarjku, impossible... I used it yesterday19:23
cyberholicso my friends: xterminal is open, what shall i enter in there?19:23
pope523cyberholic: Still trying to agree on that :)19:23
qwerty12@cyberholic, go to applications, settings, connection manager, internet connecion , ip address19:23
jkuqwerty12, bloody hell you're right, I must have checked /usr/sbin19:24
desertcWhy doesn't Maemo come with OGG codec support, by default?19:24
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DaniloCesarjku, I did the test right now... /sbin/ifconfig exists19:24
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cyberholicqwerty: CORRECT! got it!19:25
jkuDaniloCesar, like I said I was wrong19:25
pope523cyberholic: You're almost there :)19:25
qwerty12Cool, thanks to jku for the idea :D19:25
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pope523cyberholic: Now put THAT IP into VNC on your desktop19:25
qwerty12Shows how much I use the program...19:25
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cyberholicso does that mean that the server is already running?19:25
DaniloCesarjku, Sorry, I didn't read it...19:25
pope523cyberholic: That doesn't mean the server is running19:25
pope523cyberholic: But if you clicked on the x11vnc icon, the server should be running19:25
jkudesertc, it has to be a (perceived) legal problem19:25
pope523cyberholic: Click it once, started it. Click it a second time stops it.19:26
cyberholicpope: how can i check if it is running?19:26
desertcjku: The OGG project was created just for the reason to avoid (perceived) legal problems.19:26
pope523cyberholic: Try to connect to it :)19:26
jkudesertc, the ogg-bug is the most voted for bug in the bugzilla (twice the amount of votes than the next one)..19:26
pope523cyberholic: If it doesn't connect, click it again and try to conect again19:26
cyberholicpope: i got a bomb here. Red or Blue wire?19:26
qwerty12Both. Goodbye.19:27
pope523I was trying to come up with a color-blind joke19:27
jkudesertc, the foundation doesn't do anything against submarine patents, AFAIK19:27
cyberholicdoes not work yet :(19:27
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cyberholicshall i uninstall VNC client from my device?19:28
pope523cyberholic: Click the x11vnc icon and try connection again19:28
pope523cyberholic: You can, but it's not necessary to uninstall it19:28
cyberholicpope: you mean the connection from winXP, correct?19:28
pope523cyberholic: Correct19:28
pope523pope523: After clicking on the x11vnc icon on your tablet19:28
pope523Talking to myself again19:28
desertcSince all my audio/video media is in OGG format, Is this the recommended way to get OGG support?
qwerty12I believe it is the only way. Unless you want to use xmms19:29
qwerty12np :). You dont use SIP/Voip by any chance do you?19:30
desertcI do - all the time19:30
desertcThat's my primary use of my N80019:31
qwerty12That package is reported to break it19:31
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qwerty12I think try xmms then19:31
Robot101you can probably work around it by erasing the speex codec19:32
Robot101if you just want vorbis support19:32
qwerty12But warning, its not really maemo friendly19:32
qwerty12I only use it for A2DP support19:32
Robot101install that one and delete /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/libgstspeex.so19:32
desertcWhat about the Kilkali media player I used in OS200719:32
qwerty12It exists for OS2008 but I never personally used it so I wouldnt know19:33
desertcI do a lot of work with Speex libraries in Debian / Ubuntu, so I would be reluctant to remove it.19:33
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Robot101well, do you on your tablet?19:34
Robot101I think the problem there is just that speex's RTP payloader/depayloader is broken in the version shipped in OS200819:34
Robot101so if you add the speex codec, it tries to use it for your calls, then totally fails19:34
Robot101"This is not a speex file!" -> splat19:35
Robot101its fixed upstream in gstreamer so should work now19:35
Robot101(with a newer gst version, but don't try and upgrade your device)19:35
zuhdesertc: Kilikali depends on the ogg support package19:35
pope523cyberholic: Is it working? :)19:35
cyberholicnope *im such a liar*19:35
zuhdesertc: or not "depends" but "depends for ogg support" :)19:35
pope523cyberholic: But are you lying now, or were you lying before?19:36
desertczuh: I understand, thanks for the info19:36
cyberholicyeah it works. pope and qwerty: in case you would like to, send me a logo or picture and i will make a Mojo for each one of you. mail is cyber AT cyberholic DOT de19:36
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qwerty12cyberholic: Thank you :), but I'm not artistic so I wouldn't have anything to send in :D19:37
cyberholicYou are welcome whenever you want:)19:37
qwerty12Thank you :) ^-^19:38
desertcDo you have a link to the "bug" for requesting OGG support in Maemo ?19:39
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zuhdesertc: That's the bug for the broken VOIP19:39
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zuhNo comments from anyone but Tuomas so far...19:39
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desertcjku: Thanks - just what I was seeking.  Do you have info on the potential breaking of VoIP application with the OGG package installed?19:41
zuhGlad to see people opting out due to missing OGG support, vote with your feet! :)19:41
jkudesertc, sorry, no idea19:41
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qwerty12Is pupnik around? If so, I would like to say thank you :). Your Super Mario War port works fine on N800 OS2008. I have to run it with "smw" from xterm, I will make a desktop file.19:46
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fugitivois any way to not switch off display when the device is charging?19:48
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qwerty12You can set in control panel.19:49
Mouseycontrol panel -> display -> stays lit -> only when charging19:49
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cyberholici want to make a video screencap for ... do you consider me using any other software then WINK for doing that?19:52
qwerty12Theres an opensource one for Windows but I forgot name19:52
cyberholicWINK :)19:53
qwerty12Something else ;) :P. Unless they changed name19:53
cyberholicah yes, you are right... they changed it because they were sold to a mayor player.... sorry, my fault. you are totally corrrrrrrect.19:54
qwerty12Thats the one I was thinking of :)19:54
VeggenI still sort of hate flash.19:54
Veggenit's not that open.19:55
qwerty12Ahh yes, I see19:55
NaviFlash sucks19:55
Veggenand I prefer to try to find alternatives if there are, and not encourage *more* usage of flash.19:55
cyberholicYes, Flash sucks .... a lot of power resources :) .... but in terms of entertainment its awesome19:56
jkuthat hate is so deeply rooted that it would be hard to drop, even if all flash content was miraculoulsy nice and easy to use and flash was open19:56
VeggenI realize that there can be useful flash applications, but for example flash for stylish navigation just plain sucks.19:56
NaviI'd even prefer asvg over flash19:56
Veggenjku: nope, not really.19:56
qwerty12I like flash. On my W810, we have flash lite and in the modder community, many people make great flash menus19:56
fugitivook, how to do that using code?19:56
Veggenflash menus? what's the *use* of that?19:56
qwerty12Fun :D19:57
qwerty12On Sony Ericsson, normal menu isn't much19:57
MangoFusionusability improvements19:58
Veggenqwerty: well, I still do prefer that it's accessible to anyone anywhere instead of it looking fancy. that's the root of my dislike of flash.19:58
qwerty12Veggen: I see what you mean. I think if Linux flash was better, it would be nicer.20:00
smackpotatoi hate flash unless there is a video to be displayed20:00
Veggenqwerty: This isn't about linux either, really. What about the BSDs?20:00
NaviBSDs have a flash build as well20:01
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Navithey're all equally bad20:01
qwerty12Veggen: I guess I don't really regard BSD much. Don't get me wrong, I like it but I think Linux is a bit more known.20:01
Veggenqwerty: Making more proprietary/non-open-source implementations doesn't help all that much. I'd like it more if they made available an open source reference implementation of a client.20:02
jkuand think about accessibility in a larger sense: web maybe bad, but flash is totally useless in that regard20:02
desertcI talked with Nokia's technical support, and they said I should post my question on the Nokia Forums.  I got directed to this link:  But I don't see a message forum for users.20:02
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desertcShould I post in the "Forum for maemo developers" ?20:02
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Veggenqwerty: Don't get me wrong - I do realize that there might be proper usages for flash - but stylish navigation isn't good enough reason imho.20:03
* sp3000 looks for the question20:03
sp3000"potential breaking of VoIP application with the OGG package installed?"20:04
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* sp3000 ahs a vague recollection of something like that, yes20:04
desertcsp3000: yes, that and my request that maemo have OGG support integrated by default.20:04
qwerty12Veggen: :). I agree with what you are saying, and I can see what you mean. But for me, on devices where it works, I don't really have a problem with it. I wish it was more open though.20:05
Veggenwasn't there some patent-minefield-fears that was cited as reason for not supporting OGG, last time it came up?20:05
desertcsp3000: OGG is a common format, and all my music is in OGG Vorbis format.  It should not be a fight to get this working, or cause problems with VoIP apps.  I bought the device primarily for VoIP, web browsing, and OGG support.20:05
Veggenqwerty: but that's my point. On the open web, you can never be sure what devices it's accessed with.20:06
desertcVeggen: The OGG project was created just to avoid patent minefields.  I can't imagine there are more patents with OGG than MP320:06
Veggendesertc: I know, but I still think I saw a thread somewhere about that.20:06
desertcYet the maemo supports MP2, MP3, and MP4 even with all the patents surrounding them.20:06
fysaPerhaps they are defensive. ;)20:06
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desertcsp3000: thanks for that link I was seeking20:07
jkudesertc, Nokia no doubt pays through the nose for the mp3 patents...20:09
Veggenvery likely, yes.20:09
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desertcPerhaps, they believe they are 'safe' by paying for codecs with patents, than not paying for codecs which were designed to be royalty-free.20:10
Veggendesertc: I think sound encoding is a patent minefield in general.20:11
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desertcNokia had no trouble using Speex codecs, though.20:12
jku_if_ it is a legal threat they are afraid of, they probably have details we don't...20:12
NaviMy music collection is transcoded FLAC -> AAC20:12
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Veggendesertc: So it's perceived better to pay for something you know the risk of, or you think you do, than something where someone is lying around with submarine patents waiting to surface whenever it's gained support.20:12
VeggenIt sucks, I know.20:12
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desertcRelated to bug 2811, why would loading OGG codecs corrupt the API between Google Talk and Speex ?20:13
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kulveI believe some parts try to use speex but the engine doesn't support it after all (or decides not to even try)20:14
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desertcThe package maintainer says, "20:17
desertcThe ogg-support is listed as the The Pearl for OS2008, thanks! :)"  What do you think he meant by The Pearl ?20:17
desertckulve: Are you Thomas Kulve ?20:18
kulveyes, Tuomas ;)20:18
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desertcSo this is your package.  !!20:19
zuhkulve: just think how many devices you broke VoIP in by being the "perl" ;)20:19
kulvezuh: I'm not the one who did buggy code ;)20:19
kulve(I hope)20:19
desertcWho did the code?20:19
Veggenbroke voip? not *my* voip. my voip is the rtcomm beta with SIP towards my own Asterisk.20:19
kulvedesertc: Nokia20:19
fugitivoanyone tried Navit?20:20
Robot101kulve: and us... :)20:20
cyberholicdesertc.... you want to see some screenshots of the weather Mojo on my device?20:20
kulve(I'm referring to the media engine)20:20
Veggenworks fine even with ogg codecs installed.20:20
desertckulve: Nokia wrote the OGG codec code?!20:20
Robot101kulve: the media engine isn't used for VOIP, the telepathy stream engine is20:20
qwerty12Woah, libnotify overload >.< :P20:20
Robot101it's not the thing at fault as I explained above20:20
kulveVeggen: have you tried with both sides having the speex support20:20
Robot101it's because the RTP payloader/depayloder in GStreamer is buggy20:20
Robot101for speex20:20
Veggenkulve: mmm, nope.20:21
kulveRobot101: really? Feel free to comment on the bug (when b.m.o works again)20:21
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Robot101so if you add speex plugins to the device, it gets picked up automatically, then if it tries to use it the call fails20:21
Robot101that's likely to be the reason anyway20:21
desertcooooh... so the Speex plugins are not there by default?20:21
zuhRobot101: So if the plugins were fixed it would actually work?20:22
kulvedesertc: yep, they aren't20:22
Robot101oh, there are two problems actually20:22
Robot101it might not even get to the broken payloader20:22
cyberholicdesertc: here you go: and from a different angle at
desertccyberholic: thank you20:22
desertccyberholic: that's hot20:22
cyberholicdesertc: *gg*20:23
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qwerty12@cyberholic, I like it :)20:23
Veggenwhat's mojocafe supposed to do if you access it from your PC, btw?20:23
cyberholicthnx...  i have just realized that the clocks do not work correctly.... its midnight at the moment... *not*20:23
Veggenand by PC, do you mean Windows PC? (cause I don't have that)20:23
desertcit makes me so sad to see nokia failing to adopt these open standards20:23
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kulveRobot101: do want to tell what's the other problem?20:24
desertcwould it help them if someone actually sold them licenses for Speex and OGG Vorbis?20:24
Robot101kulve: yeah, sorry, was just chatting about it with one of our guys20:25
kulveRobot101: take your time :)20:25
Robot101kulve: it's because the speex codecs get selected, but there's no alsasrc/alsasink on the device, so it fails to build the pipeline20:25
* zuh is still amazed how the conic library hasn't got a clear "is this thing on?"-call20:25
kulveRobot101: uhm, why does it care about which audio sink there is..?20:26
Robot101kulve: because the other codecs (the ones on the DSP) don't need a source/sink, so at the moment one isn't set...20:26
Robot101kulve: the problem is, it's not very easy to fix - if we put in eg the dsp PCM source/sinks, or the esd source/sinks, then it will fail to build the pipeline because it would try to link two sinks together or something... :S20:27
Robot101(for all of the DSP codecs, so it would fix speex, but break it in all cases where speex is not negotiated)20:27
jkuzuh, the connection-event -signal is practically the same thing as it fires an initial event when you connect. Weird, but works20:27
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zuhjku: But I specifically do *not* want to connect. I just want to know if it's on or not.20:28
kulvezuh: haven't you read the tutorial? I think that's stated there..20:28
jkuright, just set "automatic-connection-events" and it works like that20:28
jkuzuh the API is crazy but you can do what you want20:29
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zuhHeh, my complaint exactly was that there is no clear "is this thing on"-call ;)20:29
zuhNot that I couldn't do what I want20:30
jkuD-Bus just works better with signals, have to give them that... It's still weird though20:30
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qwerty12Can someone help me with scratchbox? I want to compile kernel and I need to download sources but when I do "apt-get update" I get . But when I use CHINOOK_ARMEL target, apt-get update works fine.20:31
qwerty12 - I'm using this guide20:32
Veggenqwerty: fakeroot, perhaps?20:32
qwerty12I tried fakeroot too :(20:32
pH5qwerty12: I just used the CHINOOK_ARMEL target20:33
inzzuh, "Using this flags means that if a connection isn't already established, the connection request will fail. "20:33
zuhAnother thing they might want to mention there is that it expects the user of the library to set up the D-Bus message dispatching. But I guess "everybody uses libosso" or something...20:33
qwerty12@pH5, ok, thank you. I will try compiling tommorow. but now, I gtg. Bye all :)20:33
inzzuh, from the libconic documentation for CON_IC_CONNECT_FLAG_AUTOMATICALLY_TRIGGERED20:33
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jkuzuhm that is truly weird20:34
jkuzuh, even20:34
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jkua wrapper for a D-Bus api and I have to setup D-Bus...20:34
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zuhActually it's worse. They handle all the details of the D-Bus connection, but using the lowlevel API so no glib mainloop integration kicks in (which would be even fair assumption). So if you didn't use dbus_g_get_bus() no events will ever come.20:36
zuhBut I guess I should be coding against sillly API's instead of complaining about them ;)20:37
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zuhjku: Thanks for pointing that flag out, that'll do I suppose.20:38
jkuthat was inz :)20:38
inzThree letter nicks are easy to mess up20:39
zuhdamn all those three-lettered nicks...oh wait!20:39
inzzuh, obviously you can also call dbus_connection_setup_wit_g_main, but then you'd have to acquire the bus first in some other way20:39
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zuh..and the API doesn't expose that20:40
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jkuwe should all use cryptographically strong nicks20:40
inzzuh, of course not, it's hidden implementation detail... ;)20:40
zuhjku: Mine is. It's really 8 letters long but I hide the last five20:40
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geoffegI'm developing an application that uses network (a twitter client) but it appears that the scratchbox/xephyr environment doesn't support networking. Is that true?20:41
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inzjku, mine is random lenght and consists of random characters, what is cryptographically stronger than that?20:42
zuhgeoffeg: No, networking should work just fine under scratchbox.20:42
Veggenhmm. nuts. I have a lousy nick-change-policy. haven't changed it for 17 years ;P20:43
geoffegzuh: Is there anything I have to do to set up networking?20:44
fugitivogeoffeg: check your /etc/resolv.conf20:44 scratchbox, of course.20:44
geoffegit's set to
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geoffeg(the strange thing is that wget with a hostname (not an IP) worked fine inside the scratchboc20:45
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zuhgeoffeg: This is probably what you are hitting:
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geoffegthanks, will try20:46
geoffegzuh: hmm, that's the way it is in my nsswitch.conf20:47
geoffegzuh: changing /etc/resolv.conf fixed it, thanks!20:48
fugitivoyou're welcome20:48
zuhYeah, the is what is used on the device... I was about to point that out :)20:48
geoffegyes, thanks fugitivo20:48
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geoffegnow to learn about the glib XML parser20:50
Robot101kulve: you still there?20:51
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Robot101kulve: you can work around by disabling speex in /etc/farsightgstcodec.conf20:51
kulve /etc/farsight/gstcodecs.conf ?  :)20:52
Robot101I meant /etc/farsight/gst... but I can't type atm yeah :)20:52
Robot101that will disable speex20:52
kulvethanks, that's more clean way of disabling speex20:52
Robot101its a shame the DSP codec support in farsight breaks the non-DSP codecs, but we never had a requirement to be able to mix them20:53
Robot101we did actually try and push speex support onto the schedules, but it never got accepted as a feature thus far20:53
Veggenhmmm..anyone come across the sources for mediastreamer anywhere, btw?20:53
kulveRobot101: could you write your comments on the bug 2811 once b.m.o is working?20:55
VeggenI was trying to get it to use another interface than wlan0 when broadcasting for media servers.20:55
Robot101whats my bugzilla password :(20:57
Veggen...because my home mediaservers is behind an openvpn-link that I bridge to, so in theory it should work if I only could convince it to use that interface instead/in addition :)20:57
kulveRobot101: it's in read-only mode now anyway..20:58
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Robot101ah, that'd be why I can't get it to mail me a password :D20:59
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geoffegIs there anything I should know about the libxml2 that comes with OS2008? it doesn't have xpath disabled, right?20:59
felipecgeoffeg: it probably has some stuff disabled, why?21:00
geoffeghmm, ok, i'll check before i start writing a lot of code.. I was going to use Xpath to pull elements out of an XML document..21:00
kulvefelipec: feel free to read robot101's comments about bug 2811..21:00
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fugitivogeoffeg: i'm using it to get data from HTML and works21:01
geoffegawesome, XPath will be much easier than doing it with a SAX design.. thanks again fugitivo21:02
Robot101kulve: I'm running with a bit of a high load average today, if you want to paste in my comments later feel free21:02
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jkugeoffeg, yeah, xpath works fine21:05
geoffeggreat, thanks21:06
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kulveRobot101: thanks, I'll do that21:11
desertcRobot101: When you say to change [audio/speex] , do you mean to add the line id=-1 or replace the existing line "clock-rate=16000"21:11
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Robot101just add id=-1 to both [audio/speex] sections I think, it will disable speex21:12
Tester_audio/SPEEX it should be21:13
Tester_(but its probably case insensitive)21:13
desertckulve: Can I ask you a question?  How do you deal with the Speex library requirement for floating point calculations on the ARM processor?21:13
Robot101Tester_: god damn it you've been here all along/ :P21:14
kulveI used --enable-armv5 or something like that (and integer-only  optimizations)21:14
KotCzarnydesertc: compile with vfp21:14
Tester_Robot101: yes ;)21:14
kulveKotCzarny: it's much faster without it21:14
Tester_I'll comment on the bug21:14
Robot101if we could make it work that'd be nice... :P21:15
desertckulve: thank you21:15
* pupnik_ waves a 'go open source dsp codec examples' sign from the sidelines21:15
Robot101do you think s-e creating the dsppcm{src,sink} elements will screw things?21:15
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kulveTester_: ok, so I don't paste irc comments there :)21:15
Robot101would probably be pretty easy to test21:15
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kulvebut those tests might not be very reliable..21:16
womis there some good documentation on python and hildon library. there are some brief descriptions but is there some API document or smthg?21:17
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desertckulve: very interesting21:18
KotCzarnykulve: these test were on the machine with rest of the libs compiled for vfp?21:19
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kulveKotCzarny: I think the rest aren't vfp but it shouldn't matter much as speex doesn't really use external libs, afaik21:20
KotCzarnykilve: but switching between thumb and 32bit does, as you or your friend stated21:21
kulvessvb said that the switching should be fast, but I really don't know what to believe about that (until somebody shows some benchmarking)21:22
kulvebut now, bbl21:22
desertcI would like to see a new 1-to-many VoIP application called "Mumble" packaged for Maemo, in the future.  It will be appearing for the first time in the next Ubuntu release.  It's stable (v1.1) and useful.  Just mentioning it for you to check out.21:23
desertcI think we'll be hearing much more about the program as user adoption increases.21:24
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desertcIt's an open source Teamspeak / Ventrilio21:25
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Tester_arg.. the maemo bugs db is b0rked21:42
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desertchiya lopz21:46
fugitivoif anyone wants to try another gps application:
fugitivoit uses vector maps (garmin included)21:47
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BrainsAnybody played with the SDK on a machine that was somewhat lacking in the SDK's stated memory requirements?21:48
KotCzarnylike, n800 ?21:48
* KotCzarny have compiled few smaller projects on n800 itself21:49
lcuk_2im sure it was you that warned me against that :P21:49
lcuk_2i might b wrong tho21:50
KotCzarnyonly if it's ran from internal flash :)21:50
Brainslol,  no...  I just have a dinky P3 laptop with 184MB of ram that I was thinking of using...  Stated requirement is 256...21:50
KotCzarnyusing mmc as a / will work fine21:50
KotCzarnybrains: as long you have swap there..21:51
KotCzarnyand don't run firefox (;21:51
lcuk_2is it simple booting my 810 from mmc then?21:51
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lcuk_2ie, if i buy an extra card to fill my slot can i just use the whole 2 gb as primary file system21:51
lcuk_2is it messy?21:52
KotCzarnynot at all21:52
lcuk_2and do i have lots to learn before i can attempt it?21:52
kulvelcuk_2: it's quite easy. I use the first partition as vfat for "normal" maemo use and the second partition for booting some other rootfs21:52
KotCzarnythere are howtos21:52
* Brains will give it a try in the near future then... So he can get on to bugging the nice inhabitants here for info.21:52
kulvelcuk_2: that's what I've used21:53
lcuk_2i wouldnt want to add extra complexity - i have the (i think) 256 internal base flash.  a 2gb internal data flash and a blank slot21:53
f_mohrhow do you partition the internal card? i didnt find fdisk on the nokia?21:53
Tester_kulve: maybe you want to overrride the gstcodecs.conf in the oggsupport postinst ?21:53
KotCzarnybut you can do it via usb too21:53
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lcuk_2i would just fill the blank slot with a 2gb card (cheap and fast)21:53
KotCzarnythen just run cfdisk /dev/sda21:54
lcuk_2thx kulve ill take a look21:54
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KotCzarnyas a added bonus you won't have to umount it by hand21:54
lcuk_2recovery from serious crash is then just a case of NOT booting the extra flash and letting the default flash run i gather?21:54
KotCzarnyand won't be limited to osk21:54
kulveTester_: I need to do some hacks like that unless Nokia disables speex or fix the problem..21:55
kulvelcuk_2: yep. And you can flash the original initfs back too21:55
lcuk_2great :) i think ill pick up a flash asap then - whats the business with all this class 4 / 6 etc - should i watch out for anything specific?21:57
Robot101kulve: well we've disabled it now, but whether we'll be allowed to push it into any OS release, we need to ask permission :)21:58
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kulvelcuk_2: the class number states the minimum write speed on MB/s21:58
Robot101kulve: we can try and get it updated in the rtcomm beta21:58
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f_mohri have a kingston 2g and a sandisk 8g .. both work fine21:59
kulveRobot101: I think it would be good. It's a bit annoying to think that the ogg-sypport breaks google talk on the device..21:59
f_mohr(both micro in adapter)21:59
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lcuk_2ok, there is a class 2 and a class 6 available with ~£1 difference - is it only speed thats different (both kingston)22:00
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lcuk_2im not buying online though, so when i get to the shop and they offer me a class 2 should i be bothered?22:01
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pupnik  New game added - Tower Toppler22:13
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fugitivopupnik: all that is for the tablet?22:14
fugitivoooo, nice work :)22:14
pupnikmost are works in progress22:15
fugitivoultima works fine??22:15
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pupniki need to make a page with links to 'finished' ones22:15
desertcSo - I am trying to either edit /etc/farsight/gstcodecs.conf to disable Speex or delete the Speex libraries.  Is there any way to do either task without enabling R&D mode and installing SSH?22:15
KotCzarnypupnik or **** rating system22:15
KotCzarnyand a legend22:15
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KotCzarny**** works pefect/hildonized22:15
KotCzarny*** playable22:15
KotCzarny** works, but is problematic22:15
KotCzarny* not really works22:16
thopiekarwow.... does the emu works fine on the n8x0?22:16
KotCzarnyX - doesn't compile22:16
pupnikthe ps1 emu gets about 0.7-1.5 fps22:16
lcuk_2Y - it compiled so i shipped it22:16
thopiekaris it playable?22:17
KotCzarny1fps can be named playable22:17
thopiekaror lagg thee sound too?22:17
fugitivopupnik: dude, you saved my vacations22:17
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desertcpupnik: so nice Ur-Quan Masters has been ported.  been waiting for it!22:17
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pupnikthere are better ports for n800 right now - search itt forums22:18
lcuk_2pupnik has been beavering away to give us playable software for a while and i aplaude his efforts :D22:18
pupnikmine will run fullspeed on n770 though22:18
pupnik*of UQM22:18
pupnik(when it's done :P)22:18
pupnikdesertc: install ssh dude22:19
fugitivosnes9x + chronotrigger, did you try it?22:19
desertcpupnik: won't ssh server stay awake and drain my battery?  :(22:19
KotCzarnynot that much22:19
KotCzarnyif it's not in use it doesn't do much22:19
fugitivodesertc: if you have os2008 ssh is a pain in the ass with that new wifi battery feature :)22:20
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KotCzarnywifi battery drain sux :/22:21
KotCzarny1-2days with wifi on ~10 with wifi off22:21
dragornif you manage to turn off the battery control on it, it sucks even worse22:21
dragornand by "worse" i mean "2-3 hours"22:21
dragorntotal life on a fully charged battery22:22
dragorngood times.22:22
lcuk_2my wifi comes back to life22:22
KotCzarnydragorn: nope22:22
Mouseyyay offline mode22:22
KotCzarnywith 'moderate' power saving mode it's ~1-2 days22:22
lcuk_2i disconnect and some time during the night it comes back to life22:22
KotCzarny(unless you use tablet actively)22:22
desertcMousey: good idea22:22
dragornKotCzarny: er, "yup".  When you disable power saving on the wifi device entirely, you get about 3 hours.22:22
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dragornGranted, you need to work fairly hard at doing so with some of the power ioctls, but for extra fun, restoring the previous state doesn't work22:23
KotCzarnybut moderate pow-sav works nicely22:23
KotCzarnyeven interactive ssh session is ok22:23
fugitivonot 100%22:23
thopiekarcu @ all22:23
desertcpupnik: I did a search on Google for the "ITT Forum" you mentioned, and all I got back were IRC logs of this channel where you mentioned it previously.  :-D  Do you have a link for it?22:23
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desertcThank you22:24
lcuk_2maybe with an extra t22:24
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lcuk_2doesnt anyone want to talk about their tables on the internet?22:25
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cyberholici am back again and finally my clock-bug at some Mojos has been squished!22:28
lcuk_2regarding the power saving, ive been running my test program with cpu on "ondemand" and it becomes easier to test (constantly faster) im gonna try running on the slower mode for normal operations and see how it copes22:28
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cyberholicAND: the Demo Mode now works! Visit to test out 4 standard Mojos that i have choosen.... and please: visit it WITH YOUR DEVICE and not your desktop PC, otherwise you won`t see the login-window (unless you do not change your screen resolution to 800x480)...22:29
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ptohi all. Question on the N800. Is the USB port a master or a slave?22:39
KotCzarnydepending on the cable used22:39
KotCzarnyand software setting22:39
ptoI need to control a USB slave from N80022:39
ptoKotCzarny: interesting22:39
KotCzarnybut by default it's a 'device' mode22:39
KotCzarny(as opposed to 'host' mode)22:39
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ptoKotCzarny: I need to make a custom cable - it is for controlling a FTDI USB->serial converter22:41
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KotCzarnynot a problem i guess22:41
KotCzarnyok, bbl22:41
ptoKotCzarny: ca you give me some pointers on the SW part - i.e. setting it up the port as a host port22:42
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jottcyberholic: why don't you make a simple login/password registration without email fuss? i guess this would attract much more people..22:43
cyberholicjott: but how do you want to save the profiles. I mean how do you want to save wich Mojo belongs to whom...22:45
jottto register just give name & password..22:46
cyberholicprofiles are saved in a SQL database; passwords in MD5 encryption and emails as simple VARCHAR. This way you can have your profile on any device that supports flash.22:46
cyberholicjott: ah ok.... correct.22:46
cyberholicbut then i can not send out emails with bugs, new features etc.22:47
jottyou are not allowed to do this by german law anyway :)22:47
jott(not without explicit permission at least)22:47
cyberholiccorrect, thats why it is deactviated at startup and after you login you have the option to check fo that.22:48
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crashanddiePasswords in md5 encryption, that's pretty weak22:56
crashanddiewell, weak in a paranoic way I guess22:56
lcddno one is breaking encryption in the real world23:01
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jottno one ever broke my rot13!23:01
crashanddieanyway, I'd always use sha1 with salt at least23:01
crashanddieIn other news, I have a major problem, and I'd need some help23:02
crashanddieI can't install any kind of software anymore (not using the package manager anyhoo)23:02
crashanddieAnd I'd need some pointers in order to find out what's happened23:02
crashanddiethe install is pretty much brand new, I broke my system a few weeks ago, after running apt-get upgrade, and just reflashed it... The only thing installed is the lcards theme23:03
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crashanddieWhen I try to install any package, when it gets to "Downloading xxxKb", it just says "failed to download ..."23:04
crashanddieanyone got a clue ?23:04
jottmaybe you have fun with akamai servers? check if you can reach the repository url from the device23:05
crashanddieI should have stuff in /etc/apt/sources.list right ?23:06
jottwell sources.list and/or sources.list.d/*23:06
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crashanddiei'm getting a reply from repository.maemo.org23:10
crashanddieI can't test from the tablet though, can't ping if not root23:10
jottwell http is more important than ping :)23:11
jottmaybe just use microb and surf to r.m.o23:11
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crashanddiejott, yeah, I have access to r.m.o in http23:12
crashanddiejott, though, the weird thing is, it also happens when I'm trying on other repositories23:13
crashanddiejott, say, I tried to install vagalume, which has its own repository, no dice, fail at download too23:13
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pupniki want bluetooth sunglasses with a monochrome terminal display23:14
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glasswhy monochrome23:15
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jottpupnik: amber would be nice :)23:15
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pupnikbecause the tech for this is monochrome23:16
crashanddiejott, got any clue ? Or should I just re-flash the whole thing ?23:17
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crashanddiejott, and see where I manage to go from there23:17
aquatixcrashanddie: i might have the same issue23:18
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aquatixupdated some things with apt-get and now the hildon updater says it fails every time23:18
aquatixdidn't try installing something new yet though23:18
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crashanddieoh crap23:20
crashanddieI think I lost my usb cable23:20
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crashanddieyeah, looks like it23:21
crashanddieAnd I don't have any spare micro usb cable23:21
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* aquatix is gone23:24
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aquatixcrashanddie: good luck23:24
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wazdgoodnight all :)23:25
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crashanddieaquatix, found one :D23:26
pupnik  jott - there's an example of what i'm talking about23:26
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lcuk_2that guy in the nokia advert had one23:26
AStormdo you know, where can i get abiword or such like for maemo?23:27
AStormgnumeric i already have (works ok with minor annoyances)23:28
AStormthe Notes app produces documents in mad ugly html23:28
lcuk_2is google broke again?23:29
lcuk_2try here:
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lcuk_2or any of these:
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AStormlcuk_2, tried that repo search engine, botgt zilch23:30
crashanddiehey lcuk_2, how you doing ?23:30
lcuk_2im gr8 thanks23:31
AStormguessed incorrectly that Google wouldn't find anything either23:31
crashanddieI gotta say, < 20 secs for the flash image is pretty awesome ^^23:31
lcuk_2its not bad at all23:31
lcuk_2so have you completely restarted everything?23:32
lcuk_2im dreading doing it on mine23:32
lcuk_2i dont think i could remember half the stuff ive changed23:32
crashanddielcuk_2, yeah, just finished flashing it23:33
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jebeIs it possible to get push mail for n810 mail-software?23:34
jebeOr does claws mail have push mail?23:34
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AStormlcuk_2, "incompatible package"23:35
AStormjebe, afaicr it doesn't23:35
AStormbut minimail (or what's it called now) might have it23:35
lcuk_2what is "push mail" is that like having your mailer warn you when you have a mail, or does it basically send a text to your phone?23:36
lcuk_2when i leave google mail up it refreshes and lets me know ive got mail - on my 810 - is that being pulled or pushed or doesnt it matter?23:37
lcuk_2astorm - im just trying myself23:37
AStormlcuk_2, like blackberry23:37
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AStormwhat you say is polled mail23:38
AStormpushed - mail is sent to you by the server23:38
AStormw/o requests23:38
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AStormwhich should save battery on wifi and cash on gprs23:39
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lcuk_2yes i hear about blackberries but never been inclined to see the difference between push and pull - if i get a mail when i have my device running, does it matter how it gets there - is there some magic involved which i am just not getting?23:39
lcuk_2but on nokia i dont even have a cell23:39
lcuk_2so nothing can be pushed at all23:39
lcuk_2my 810 is connected all day tho - nothing more than with a mobile phone connected all day23:40
AStormI'm working on that too.23:42
AStormsigning up for the various campus wifis23:42
AStormok, now where do i get a working abiword package?23:42
crashanddieso the bad news is23:43
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crashanddieeven after reflashing my IT23:43
crashanddieI still can't install software23:43
AStormthat and qalculate are very wanted23:43
lcuk_2astorm - theres a long discussion on it here:
AStorm(I'll check scratchbox out and the cross build devel)23:43
lcuk_2silly me thought something would be nice and simple23:43
crashanddieI'm getting the feeling my internal memory card is burnt23:44
lcuk_2crashanddie, dont do anything rash yet - it could be your local isp23:44
crashanddielcuk_2, it's not my ISP23:44
crashanddielcuk_2, I've tried from 3 different networks23:44
lcuk_2you say it wont install anything - what have you done since flashing?23:44
lcuk_2have you restored a backup?23:44
crashanddielcuk_2, erhm... Add the wifi network, and changed the theme23:45
AStormi can do crosscompile me :)23:45
lcuk_2downloaded theme?23:45
crashanddienope, stock one23:45
lcuk_2ok, does everything you try to install fail?23:45
crashanddieyeah, pretty much23:46
pupnikah another one of my 'inventions' finds a manufacturer23:46
lcuk_2"pretty much" - what does install, and what doesnt?23:46
crashanddie(didn't try everything in the list though, but for example, "camera" doesn't)23:46
crashanddieI'll try a few others23:46
pupnikprojector + wide-angle optics + hemispherical dome23:46
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lcuk_2keep with simple things first - if that still fails with everything, just try something simple from an actual .deb saved23:47
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lcuk_2make it a bit bigger and you would feel like xavier23:47
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wazdDoes anybody know how to create custom fullscreen keyboard layouts?)23:48
AStormmaybe the internal flash is full?23:49
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FunkyPenguinis it a known issue on n800 running os2007 that when you press the power key to bring up the lock menu it powers of straight away?23:49
AStormwazd, I'd love to know that too23:49
lcuk_2if you hold the power button it goes off - but all that is configurable in a file somewhere23:50
AStormand do n810 keyboard layout too23:50
FunkyPenguinthis started happening 2 days a go and is rendering the damn thing almost unusable23:50
FunkyPenguinlcuk_2: but normally you press it once to bring up the lock menu dont you?23:50
crashanddieAStorm, /dev/mtdblock4 is at 100% usage23:50
crashanddieAStorm, there's place everywhere else23:51
AStormcrashanddie, you fail23:51
crashanddieAStorm, ?23:51
AStormthat device is i nternal 256 mb chip23:51
wazdI'm a bit tired of russian layout, that has no "plus" symbol but has totaly stupid spanish mirrored "?" and "!" )23:51
AStormused to install apps usuaally (w/o tricks)23:51
zuhinz: just FYI, I ended up doing it the easy way. Which is to patch microb-eal and ship my own. I get to decide which eal implementation to load since it's my custom UI :P23:52
crashanddieAStorm, please type df in a console23:52
crashanddieAStorm, tell me if /dev/mtdblock4 is 100% or not23:52
wazdzuh, you're creating custom UI for MicroB?)23:53
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AStormone is23:53
AStorm(initfs, expected)23:53
AStormthe other is not23:53
AStorm/dev/mtdblock4          257536    220764     36772  86% /23:53
zuhwazd: I'm creating an web UI application which uses EAL, so sort of. It's not a _browser_ UI if that's what you mean.23:53
AStormso I still have some free23:53
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AStormhave to remove some pointless stuff23:54
wazdzuh: ah :) Misundastood :)23:54
crashanddieAStorm, my root is at 55%23:54
crashanddieinitfs is at 100%, so that's normal23:55
AStormok, so enough space23:55
crashanddieI'm going to activate R&D mode and try to run fsck23:55
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AStormgood idea23:55
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AStormhave to readhowto on rr&d23:57
crashanddieAStorm, I used the flashing utility23:58
crashanddieAStorm, add --enable-rd-mode when flashing it23:59
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AStormblah, I don't want to reflash23:59

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