IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-02-16

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jga23is there any way to install xterm in scratchbox?00:12
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esworpB u r p.00:18
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inzjga, you'll most likely need to compile it for i38600:21
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NaviI had a dream during my nap00:25
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NaviI dreamed that I found an N800 in my cabinet and then I was like ZOMGLOLWTF?00:25
NaviSo I went straight to my PC and loaded mypaint00:26
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NaviAfter that, I woke up and screamed "damn it!" 'cuz it was a dream.00:26
NaviTrue story.00:26
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pupnikgood Navi00:38
pupnikwe need more tablet radicals :)00:38
pupniksomeone will be contacting you soon00:39
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rm_youHanz Zimmer's score to The Rock is some of the most EPIC music I've ever heard <_<00:42
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reverendnathanHey guys, I'm going on a trip soon... quick question: is my 770 optimal enough to play a movie for the 2 hour flight? I'm guess Canola and using DiVx to reduce the video to a proper setting will do it?00:47
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spirytusickhello :)00:48
rm_youreverendnathan: i would try just pure mplayer....00:48
rm_youreverendnathan: and i *think* it should have just enough power00:49
rm_youwell, a little more than enough, if you put it in offline mode and havent used it much yet since unplugging it00:49
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rm_youalso, just be sensible... like don't have the brightness at 100% :P00:50
rm_youi think i've managed to get something like 4 hours of video out of my n800 without it entirely dying00:50
reverendnathanrm_you: Cool. If not, my cell can handle it. Gotta get some more memory to hold the movie though! Good luck finding MMC, am I right?00:51
rm_youheh, is that what your phone uses?00:51
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rm_youor... what does the 770 use, exactly? i always just assumed it used SD as well00:51
reverendnathanLemme see, it's not SD unfort00:52
Juhaz770 uses rs-mmc00:52
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rm_youyeah, no idea <_<00:52
Juhazaka mmcmobile00:52
rm_youi love my n800 because it uses two nice full SDHC cards :P00:52
rm_youthe n810 is lame in comparison <_<00:52
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reverendnathanIt looks like SD if SD was flipped sideways and has a lot of connectors00:53
rm_youdunno who the hell had the bright idea to downsize it to a single MiniSD00:53
t_s_ohmm, for whatever reason, canola have become a dependency for some lib packages. debs getting confused, or something worse?00:53
rm_youdamnit... my n800 is getting on my nerves, because it keeps just SHUTTING OFF00:54
reverendnathan64 MB RS-MMC memory card00:54
rm_younot rebooting... just powering completely off00:54
reverendnathanGoing to assume RS-MMC = MMCPlus?00:54
rm_younever when i'm using it... just while it's in my pocket00:54
rm_youand only since os200800:55
reverendnathanHopefully? Because I'm going to buy bigger memory for this motha00:55
jkurm_you, the single card is probably because of swap00:55
jkuthey want to make sure the swap card can't be removed...00:55
rm_youok, that's semi-understandable then...00:56
rm_youbut why miniSD? >_<00:56
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rm_youtakes what could be a 16G or soon 32G card slot, and makes it into a 4G maximum / hard to find / uncompatible with everything else card00:56
jkuI know very little of cards -- what should it have been?00:57
t_s_ogotta love the cli, apt-get had no problems removing canola...00:57
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rm_youjku: standard SD again00:57
jkuI've heard N810 is very, very tightly packed00:57
rm_youi like the idea of GPS builtin, and a hardware keyboard...00:58
jkuso maybe it was a size problem00:58
rm_youbut the downgrade to miniSD means I would *never* buy or recommend one to anyone00:58
pupnikok i got maybe 5% more speed tonight00:58
rm_youand 100% of the friends i've tried to make buy a Maemo device agree that if they were going to buy one, it would be the n800 over the n810 primarily because of the SD >_>00:59
elbhow is minisd a downgrade from sd?00:59
pupnikthere was no space for full sd, rm_you00:59
jkurm_you, why is it that important?00:59
rm_you<rm_you> takes what could be a 16G or soon 32G card slot, and makes it into a 4G maximum / hard to find / uncompatible with everything else card00:59
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wwpminiSD are expensive and not well spread00:59
wwpthe choices of miniSD cards is weak01:00
pupnikmy 4GB minisd was 21 euro01:00
wwpbest is to buy a microSD w/ an adapter01:00
rm_youmy 4g SD was like 10Euro01:00
elb4GB minisd cards are $2501:00
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elbthat doesn't seem unreasonable to me01:00
ssvbreverendnathan: RS-MMC = MMCMobile (or to be more precise, MMCMobile is a faster, dual voltage version of RS-MMC)01:00
rm_youwwp: agree... microsd = win01:00
rm_youbut they also have a much smaller maximum size01:00
wwpelb: in .fr, miniSD prices are way more expensive01:00
wwpcompared to micro and normal SD01:00
elbdon't blame the technology, blame the socialist economy ;-)01:01
rm_youyou can RIGHT NOW buy a 16Gb SD card01:01
rm_youmicro caps at 4Gb, from what i've seen01:01
wwpyou'll find 2 miniSD ones for 10 micro or normal ones. of course, at expensive prices and won't find high speeds or capacities01:01
elbmini- and microsd will catch up to SD01:01
rm_youand SD will soon be at 3201:01
wwpmicroSD -> 8GB01:01
elbfrankly, I haven't seen any reason to augment the built-in storage in my 81001:01
rm_youelb: what do you use your device for?01:02
wwpthe miniSD choise is an error to me. normal or micro was way more pertinent01:02
jkuelb, agreed. Not everyone has the same requirements01:02
wwpsame for the USB plug format, stupid (or commercial)01:02
rm_youthe MaemoMapper database in my n800 takes up 1Gb by itself01:02
elbrm_you: mostly reading documents and keeping a schedule/notes, so far01:02
elbmaemo mapper isn't anywhere near that large, on mine01:02
elbbut I didn't try to map the entire continent01:02
reverendnathanssvb: This stuff isn't cheap! Cheapest I found : ($32! for 2GB)01:02
rm_youI need to have most of two large cities and the area between01:02
jkuelb: just one city can fill a card...01:02
wwpabout the USB plug, there are already 2 very common USB formats of this size. there were no use to create a new one, w/ quite no cable that fit01:02
wwpthe USB plug format and miniSD format choices only reveal some commercial purposes01:03
wwpnot any pertinent technical ones01:03
jkuwwp, like?01:03
wwplike what?01:03
wwpwhat like?01:04
jkuI'm wondering what you mean by "commercial purposes"01:04
jkujust that it makes economical sense to Nokia?01:04
elbwwp: they didn't "create a new one"01:04
wwpgood question. ways to control specific cable prices?01:04
elbwwp: you realize that the plug on the 810 is standard, right?01:04
wwpelb: no, right, they didn't create a new one, they just make use of the most uncommon one ;)01:04
elband that it serves a functionality which is different from the other small plugs01:05
wwpwhereas similar very popular ones were available01:05
elbthere's an *extra pin* compared to those "very popular ones"01:05
elband that extra pin allows you to do things that the "very popular ones" can't do01:05
wwpwhat functionality? bind pin 4 and 5?01:05
elbUSB OTG requires those pins, yes01:05
elbit's not just about "bind pin 4 and 5"01:05
wwpyou can find other plugs w/ OTG01:05
wwpgoogle a bit!01:06
elbdevices which are *only* compatible with either host or client mode, yes01:06
elbbut devices which can do both require the extra pin01:06
esworpSo, what is usb to go?01:06
elb"google a bit!"01:06
ssvbreverendnathan: unfortunately Nokia 770 does not support cheap SD cards, Kingston 2GB MMCMobile is probably the best choice for this device01:07
elbesworp: it's a standard which allows devices to act either as a host or a device, depending on what they're plugged in to01:07
jkuthat explains it and makes sense with the card issue: you can now use usb sticks to store stuff...01:07
elbesworp: e.g., the n810 is a host when you plug it into a keyboard, and a device when you plug it into your computer01:07
pupnik38363     7.3391  no-vmlinux               (no symbols)   <<< what is that?  the virtual memory of the itos kernel?01:07
pupnikoh duh nevermind01:08
pupniki'd need a kernel with debugging symbols01:08
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pupnikif only dosbox didn't segfault when i run -fprofile-generate :(01:10
hachianyone know if a screen protector for the 800 will fit on an 810?01:13
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hachiI don't know if they have the same exact screen or not... I would assume so normally01:13
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pupnikthe screen on n810 is smaller than 77001:15
pupnikdon't know about vs. n80001:15
jkupupnik, are you sure? They all look the same to me...01:16
pupniki have both here and 770 is larger by perhaps 2-3 mm01:16
jkuwhich direction?01:17
pupnikvert maybe 2 mm or so01:17
jkuoh, right. had to turn them on to see it01:18
hachiif you have an 800 there, can you tell me the horizontal dimension of the display?01:18
hachimy 810 is exactly 90mm01:19
hachix 53mm, vertical01:19
jkuhachi, I don't have really good measuring tools01:21
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jkubut yeah they can't be more than 1mm different01:21
hachiso many sites list the size of the display in inches, and the size of the device in mm horizontal and vertical01:23
jkupupnik, even the difference to 770 is only maybe 1 mm to each direction, when I actually try to measure01:23
jkumaybe 201:23
hachi800 is 4.1"01:23
hachi770 is 4.13"01:23
hachidoes anyone ever replace screen protectors?01:24
hachiI'm debating buying one or three :\01:25
jku0.03" = 0.76 mm, so not much to each direction (of course specs and reality do not always meet)01:26
hachiyeah :)01:27
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pupnikanybody here done gcc tests with funroll-loops / funroll-all-loops?01:30
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jkuwhoa, xomap xrandr:
jkurotated by the lcd controller so should be plenty fast01:41
hachinice job01:42
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pupnik  useful info on alignment on ARM and packed structures01:46
pupnikcool jku01:48
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LastLemmingthe rootme password not work, I just flashed my n800 with OS2008 :(02:17
LastLemmingand no ssh root@localhost02:17
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jku"no ssh root@localhost" -- be more exact. What is the problem?02:23
Tama^3install sshd02:23
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nwidgercan anyone tell me if the igo bluetooth keyboard works with the n810?:
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Tama^3I read in this channel before that it does02:36
Tama^3but I have no first hand information02:36
nwidgercool thanks :)02:39
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eichiis there a way to remove the contact button? the second one on the left side..i dont need this02:45
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jga23anybody create a TaskNav panel in python? (like
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andkornhello everyone03:09
andkornI have a quick but possibly difficult question.03:10
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andkornHow do you compile a toolkit for maemo using crosstool or crosstool-NG?03:11
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LastLemminghow I get root password?03:42
dphil9000install a system and take notes03:42
jga23anybody know how to remap the hardware keys on the n810?03:45
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acydlorda dremmel and some duct tape04:09
* jott tries to imagine a world without duct tape but fails04:10
acydlordwe'd still be using bailing wire for everything04:10
jottnah that's not the same :/04:11
acydlordi know, but its how the world survived before the shiny bond that holds us all together04:12
jottbut look under what circumstances they had to live..04:13
pupnikduct tape!04:13
pupniksymbolized by |04:14
pupnikthe stuff is unaffordable in germany04:16
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BlafaselI drove several Citroen 2CV, they are basically made of duct tape. ;)04:20
pupnikyou have to love the unique design and simplicity04:21
BlafaselI did. Still do.04:21
elbduct tape, *expensive* ?04:21
* elb shakes his head at broken socialist economies for the second time in one day04:21
pupniki'll agree but perhaps duct tape producers in some countries are externalizing pollution costs, which are then borne in sickness04:22
pupnikso goes the theory04:23
elbI'm having a doubt04:23
elbwell, in *some* countries, I'm sure04:23
pupnikanyway the reason germans don't use it is they have a cultural aversion to sloppy quick fixes to anything04:24
elbGermany does have a horrid subsidy system in place for "environmental" stuff, though, I hadn't thought about that04:24
elbman, I bet that makes all kinds of things crazy expensive04:24
pupnikthere's also a cultural antipathy towards chemistry04:24
pupnikas evinced in a strong market for homeopathic and herbal remedies04:24
elba friend of mine was waxing fond on the solar energy subsidies the other day04:25
elbI tried to explain that it isn't all bunnies and flowers, but I don't think I got through04:25
pupnikeveryone should go to and learn some economic reality imo :)04:25
pupniki just discovered the speeches of Hans-Herman Hoppe - awesome04:26
elbI don't know as much about economy as I'd like04:26
Navipupnik, tablet radicals?04:26
elbthere's just not enough time ;-)04:27
pupnikyeah Navi, then you too can become infused with THE FORCE and help our communist linux revolution04:27
NaviI see.04:27
ttmrichterOK, if I've semi-bricked my N800 -- I can ssh into it but the GUI isn't starting -- after I've finished backing everything on it up, what's the best way to figure out what's gone wrong with the gui with an eye toward fixing it?04:27
NaviSo, it's not starting on a fresh start?04:28
elbthis isn't going to be in German, is it?  ;-)04:28
pupnikyou see, elb, in software scarcity is not a natural state, but rather an artificial one04:28
pupnikno he speaks english04:28
`0660_why not just reflash it?04:28
ttmrichterIt's not starting on a power-off, take the battery out, put the battery back in and turn on cycle.04:28
elbI should burn these to CD and listen to them in the car04:28
elbI didn't realize they had audio content on mises.org04:28
pupnikyep i just listened to him on a long walk04:28
ttmrichterThe system is running, as I said.  I'm rsynching it right now.  But the GUI is just not starting.04:28
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Navi`0660_, I view reflashing and red pill as a last resort04:29
Naviunless it's ultimately easier04:29
Navipupnik, are the ones that will contact me also bringing my very own N810?04:29
NaviI could do with an IT04:30
pupnikbuy one :)04:30
NaviI only have enough money stored for half an N80004:30
ttmrichter`0660_: Reflashing is my last choice.  I'd rather not go through the hassles of re-installing all the software all over again.  And, too, this won't help me understand what went wrong in the first place.04:30
Naviin the N800 fund anyways, the rest is for gas04:30
elbpupnik: if you've listened to some of these ... is any particular order better than linear?04:31
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pupnikit depends on your favorite subject - you can also go by events04:32
pupnikand your favorite speaker might well differ from mine.  i am just going down the list04:32
pupniki find it much more entertaining than pop music, or god forbid television now04:32
jottpupnik: thanks for the link :)04:32
elbmnight as well start with a recommendation, though :-)04:33
pupnikyou're very welcome.  umm well my favorites were on imperialism personally cause they ventured more into obvious political territory04:33
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pupnikoops where's the media04:34
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pupnikthere it is04:34
ttmrichterAnybody with an idea of how to diagnose the GUI-not-starting-up problem?04:35
pupnikttmrichter: can you ssh into the device?04:35
ttmrichterpupnik: Yes.  And indeed I'm backing everything up through rsynch as we speak.04:35
pupnikis the device a N810 or N800 with os2008?04:36
ttmrichterN800, OS2007.04:37
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pupniki don't think i can help04:37
ttmrichterWell, what is the command sequence that launches the GUI?  I could fire that up in SSH and see what error messages erupt.04:38
acydlordhildon-desktop ?04:40
pupniki don't even know how to turn on /var/log04:40
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SDPI have a 77004:42
SDPWhat fun thing can I do with it?04:42
ttmrichteracydlord: No such command it seems.04:42
pupnikhelp fix-up the games and emulators04:42
SDPoo. fun things.04:44
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ttmrichterOK, for the record: I think I've solved the problem.04:52
ttmrichterThere was a libpango update.04:52
ttmrichterThe update invoked a new script in /sbin.04:52
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ttmrichterThe script existed -- but it was a PERL script.04:52
ttmrichterPerl is not installed on my N800.04:52
ttmrichterUntil now, I imean.04:52
ttmrichterNow the apt-get update/upgrade cycle has worked.04:53
ttmrichterSo once my backup is finished, I'll see if I have a GUI again.04:53
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Veggenhardware sucks,04:57
trulsonly hoovers04:57
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trulsany nice pixlers available for n800 yet?05:04
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trulsgraphics software for drawing pixel graphics, like game sprites and stuff05:05
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trulsmost anything would do, but last i checked nothing was available, only the most basic doodlers05:09
NaviThere's the artsy mypaint, but that's not for pixel editing05:10
NaviThat hasn't been touched in a while, it seems05:10
Navipupnik, I blame you.05:11
trulshm, might be worth a look05:11
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trulsbut you cant zoom and do single pixel modifications?05:12
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NaviThe description says that it's designed for pixel editing05:13
pupnikI think unique311 did a hildonized mypaint05:14
Navimypaint =/= mtpaint05:14
pupnikoh yeah... i like mtpaint better.  i am kicking myself for not telling the author to apply for a developer discount05:15
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pupnikthat's a pathetic state of affairs for a platform05:16
Navimtpaint is nice, but the n770 build doesn't have alpha-blended brushes05:16
pupniknot having a good paint proggy...05:16
trulspupnik: seconded05:16
Navis/nice/all right/05:16
infobotNavi meant: mtpaint is all right, but the n770 build doesn't have alpha-blended brushes05:16
pupnikthere's a build with alpha brushes?05:16
Navimypaint is fine05:16
pupnikauthor told me he was working on it05:16
Navithe official mtpaint has lapha brushes05:16
Navi(I think)05:17
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* ttmrichter sighs. OK, the libpango upgrade isn't the only thing borked here. I still don't have a GUI.05:18
ttmrichterAny more ideas or is it reflashing time?05:18
NaviWhich really sucks since it's a paint program, after all05:18
Navittmrichter, might as well if you've backed things up05:20
ttmrichterProblem with that is, not knowing what the cause was means it'll just happen again.05:20
NaviBe careful next time05:20
ttmrichterI'm not entirely enthused with this.  That strikes me more as the Windows way.05:20
ttmrichterOf what?05:20
ttmrichterHow can I be careful if I have ZERO idea of what triggered this?05:21
ttmrichterIf I could even just try to start the GUI from the command line and see the error messages it would be helpful.05:21
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pupnikNavi i can try building mtpaint right now05:22
NaviWhy you telling me for? I don't have a tablet, remember? :305:22
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pupnikwell raw build of new mtpaint 3.0 compiles and runs but needs a lot of changes for the tablet05:31
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trulspupnik: building for IT2007 or 2008?05:34
trulswell, if it needs a lot of changes, i guess it doesn't matter that much05:34
pupnikno can't even draw with the pencil05:34
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trulspupnik: try a stylus05:34
pupnikit's not impossible to fix up programs when you're totally clueless05:37
pupnikthat's the cool thing about this05:38
pupniklearn a few basic things, then google for stuff, then ask the program author for help and...05:39
pupnikall of a sudden it works05:39
ryoohkican anyone recommend a usb bluetooth dongle which supports stereo a2dp on linux?05:39
NaviI would think that most dongles would support the A2DP profile nowadays05:42
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unique311mtpaint 3.0?05:52
NaviHey thur :D05:53
pupnikcheck sourceforge05:53
pupnikgod William Krystol is such a liar05:54
unique311i should give mtpaint another chance.....05:56
unique311i just want fullscreen.05:57
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susej_sup niggaz06:00
susej_n e 1 ?06:00
susej_how goes it tonight06:03
j0ttpupnik: do you know how to set the WMName of an SDL app?06:03
pupnikthere's a howto on that06:03
unique311suseJ,  where you from?06:03
unique311was thinking NY, but close enough.06:04
* j0tt pokes the mighty google botnet06:04
susej_where are you from?06:04
susej_how the weather freezing ass cold?06:04
susej_yeah it was 70 degrees today here06:05
susej_i was ina sharts and a t shirt06:05
* pupnik gives susej_ a slow hand clap06:05
pupnikare you proud about your weather?06:05
susej_i love it06:05
susej_i could not live any where else06:06
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unique311pupnik, mypaint is ok  but lags after doing a couple of lines.06:07
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pupnikeyy doc|home06:08
pupnikwe were just talking about mises here :)06:08
doc|homehey pupnik06:08
NaviIs there any pressure sensitivity?06:09
unique311in mypaint06:09
doc|homepupnik: what'd I miss?06:09
pupniknot much, just found a couple of fans06:09
doc|homeapart from a 12 year old evidently06:09
doc|homepupnik: cool06:09
susej_well you guys are NO fun06:10
susej_toll on06:10
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unique311ina sharts?06:11
pupniki'm still holding out for unique31106:11
j0ttpupnik: looks interesting06:11
unique311so susej was a bot?06:12
doc|homeno, just a troll06:12
unique311does that pay?06:13
Navino, just a retard06:13
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pupnik there's a lot of work for retards in IT land06:14
pupnikcause there are so few smart people06:14
unique311working on mtpaint....hopefully i have good news in the morning.06:17
trulslooking forward to that06:18
trulshm, gotta make a spritetester06:18
unique311i don't think you should.06:18
trulstesting spriteanims from gimp is so tedious when you have them laid out as a spritesheet06:19
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trulsand even worse when the sprites are buttugly06:19
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BTobotrasShouldn't there be gtk includes in scratchbox' ARMEL target?09:09
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t_s_ohmm, not promising. the backup app seems to just hang when i have done my selection and hit ok09:33
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t_s_ohmm, seems there is some issue with it backing up settings...09:46
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t_s_ono error message in the terminal09:50
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truent_j #compiz-fusion10:14
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BTobotrasHow do I implement long operation without blocking entire application? I want to have background processing with progress bar in hildon_banner..10:57
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felipecBTobotras: using a thread?11:12
BTobotrasfelipec: ouch!11:13
BTobotrasfelipec: okay, blocking but showing indicator :)11:13
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monkeyiqis there an app for the n810 which logs GPS coords continually to the sdcard?11:14
felipecBTobotras: thread are not that difficult11:14
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BTobotrasfelipec: sure, just don't really need it here11:15
felipecBTobotras: yeah, a lot of people say that and what you have is UI's where you don't know what's happening11:16
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BTobotrasfelipec: that's why I want to update progress bar :)11:20
felipecBTobotras: but if you block the progress bar is updated, but the UI is not usable, so you can't see the progress-bar or anything else11:22
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BTobotrasfelipec: ah, yep, sure.11:24
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melmothBTobotras: i think it s either a separate thread, or a second process and communication with dbus11:29
melmothnow, some 'long operation' such as file transfert can be nicely wrapped already with gnome vfs i think.11:31
melmothso you dont have to take care of the thread thingy, you can just declare a callback that is called every percent of the transfert or something like that11:32
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felipecbut gnome vfs is almost dead11:37
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melmothis it ?11:38
melmothi though it was a core composant of the tablet thingy.11:38
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BTobotrasWhy can't I gtk_widget_destroy from within e_book_async_open callback? How does the callback relate to Gtk main loop?11:53
JaffaMorning, all11:53
BTobotrasOkay, can I widget_destroy from within g_idle callback? :)11:55
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wwpdoes anybody get problems updating packages due to libglade2.0 conflicts (2.6.x is in maemo extra, the package manager wants it but it breask osso-software-versions)?12:30
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jkuwwp, upgrading system components is not allowed. So ITOS 2008 compatible applications cannot depend on libglade != 2.4.0-1osso212:33
wwpI see12:33
wwpjku: problem is that there's no application here that depends on libglade != 2.4.012:34
wwpit's just 'cause there's a libglade 2.6.0 available from one of the repositories12:34
jkuwhy does the package manager want to install it then?12:34
wwpI have no idea12:34
wwpwill try to figure this out12:34
jkuis it a user visible package?12:34
wwpmaybe a package that has libglade >= 2.4.0 as dep (instead of =2.4.0)12:35
jkuthat shouldn't be a problem...12:35
wwpthen I don't understand12:35
wwpI have tagtool here, which needs libglade12:35
wwpYou might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:12:36
wwpThe following packages have unmet dependencies:12:36
wwp  tagtool: Depends: libglade2-0 (>= 1:2.6.1) but 1:2.4.0-1osso2 is to be installed12:36
wwpelb: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).12:36
wwpI get this when apt-get updating12:36
jkulibglade2-0 (>= 1:2.6.112:36
jkuthat's it12:36
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jkuthat first 1 is epoch (not really part of version number)12:38
wwpjku: then it's my fault, will fix my glade version in my sdk12:38
jkutagtool is yours?12:38
wwpthe port and package yes, but I'm not the author12:39
jkuyes, right12:39
wwpbtw I've just made a diffutils .deb available12:39
wwpit's a pain that there was no repository proposing it12:40
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wwpI just wonder how people can live w/o diffutils ;)12:40
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thopiekarhi there12:43
thopiekari've got a question about canola..12:44
thopiekarwill there be other languages like german??12:45
wwpthoenig: /join #canola ?12:46
wwpthoenig: here I see it in english12:46
wwpoh great, you're already there12:46
hahloi have notice that for some reason more i tune tablet worse skype gets, then when i refla h fresh os2008 skype works well again, don't understand why ssh and modified init etc makes skype worse12:48
felipecmelmoth: the next GNOME release probably won't have gvfs12:53
felipecmelmoth: I guess Maemo eventually won't have it either12:53
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BTobotrasSorry, where do my contacts live? :)13:06
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BTobotrasThat is, where's EDS store?13:11
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BTobotrasOkay, that's ~/.osso-abook, thanks ;)13:15
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melmothje crois que j'ai une piste pour le 4eme bug :)13:17
wwpmais alors13:18
wwpjku: thanks for helping me figuring out what was wrong w/ tagtool/libglade-2.6.0, I could repack it w/ the right dep13:18
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khertanHi !13:24
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wald0what there's the editor options that we have for chinook ?14:58
wald0we have vim ?14:58
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wald0any graphically ? (text editor for code, with syntax)14:59
wald0 no vim ?15:01
Zero_Doggthere are vim packages available yeah15:02
wald0i need to go out for 3 hours and i want to read source codes in the BUS, is there not any editor with syntax ?15:02
wald0Zero_Dogg: for chinook ? what are the repos/link ?15:02
Zero_Doggfor chinook yes, can't remember which repos15:02
Zero_Dogggoogle it15:03
Zero_Doggiirc, there's no gvim though (not sure, never use gvim myself, but didn't see one)15:03
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BTobotrasNo package 'gtk+-2.0' found under CHINOOK_ARMEL, but everything works under CHINOOK_X86. Hmm...15:09
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wald0Zero_Dogg: where i can found the better repositories list (sources.list) for chinook ?15:14
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lcuk_3wald0, there is an editor called pygtkeditor which uses a highlighting source editor (which appears to have multiple language support)15:17
lcuk_3its available from the normal repos i think15:18
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maddlerhi all16:04
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wald0lcuk_3: thx, ill made a look16:04
wald0is there any repositories or project about E17 (Enlightenment) that i can try/install on my n800 ?16:08
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konttorihey, what do I need to put to .desktop file to run app as sudo?16:16
konttori(as su)16:16
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wald0konttori: put the normal command in TryExec, and put the command with sudo before, in teh Exec one16:18
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konttoriso, like: Exec="sudo /usr/bin/usbcontrol"16:19
konttoriOr so that there are two lines in there like:16:19
konttoriExec="sudo /usr/bin/usbcontrol"16:19
wald0aha, good :)16:20
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wald0konttori: btw, do you know how n800 generate the menus ?16:21
konttoriI'm no gtk expert, but what did you have in mind?16:21
wald0nothing, jst to know how are generated the emnus16:23
konttoriSo, would this answer your question:
konttoriOr did you have something deeper in mind?16:24
konttorinaa.. the app isn't starting now at all.16:25
konttoriI wonder if the quote marks should be dropped. Trying that now16:26
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konttoriah. now it works. The quotation marks weren't supposed to be there.16:29
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konttorinow, the only problem seems to be that look and feel isn't hildonized.16:29
konttorithansk wald0!16:29
konttorithanks even16:29
konttoriany idea on how to run as su and still keep hildonization?16:30
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solmumahakonttori: tried
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konttoriah. would that work with sudo as well?16:34
konttoriInteresting. I'm trying it now.16:35
inzRemember to put it as sudo -- not the other way round16:35
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konttoriyeah. thanks. seems to work!16:35
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cyberholicGood morning everyon!16:37
cyberholiceveryone i mean :)16:37
cyberholicI updated my maemo Desktop Software... anyone want to give it a try?16:39
cyberholichere is a preview:
lcuk_3cyberholic, when i looked yesterday i failed to tell you one thing:   you have made a spelling mastake on February, you spelt it Feburary16:44
NaviThis is ridiculous16:45
cyberholiclcuk... ooops. thanks! ill change that16:45
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cyberholicI took the timers off and inserted an autoslide function into it!16:45
lcuk_3cyber, once my 810 counterpart logs in i would like a link to the proper one - ill give it a full test on the device itself16:46
lcuk_3the timers didnt work too well either, i couldnt stop them once started16:46
lcukon 810 now, cybr i can has link please16:46
khertan    def bToday_pressed(self, widget):16:47
khertan        print "bJournal"16:47
khertan        self.destroy_content()16:47
khertanself.wjournal_widget = wjournal.CreateWidget("wjournal")16:47
khertan    def bCalendar_pressed(self, widget):16:47
khertan        print "bCalendar"16:47
khertan        self.destroy_content()16:47
khertanself.wcalendar_widget = wcalendar.CreateWidget("wcalendar")16:47
khertan    def bTasks_pressed(self, widget):16:48
khertan        print "bTasks"16:48
khertan        self.destroy_content()16:48
khertanself.wtodo_widget = wtodo.CreateWidget("wtodo")16:48
khertan    def bContacts_pressed(self, widget):16:48
khertan        print "bContacts"16:48
inzcyberholic, you should get the month names from the system16:48
khertan        self.destroy_content()16:48
khertanself.wcontacts_widget = wcontacts.CreateWidget("wcontacts")16:48
inzkherta, oops?16:48
khertan    def bNotes_pressed(self, widget):16:48
khertan        print "bNotes"16:48
khertan        self.destroy_content()16:48
khertanself.wnotes_widget = wnotes.CreateWidget("wnotes")16:48
khertan    def destroy_content(self):16:48
khertan        children = self.content.get_children()16:48
khertan        for child in children:16:48
khertan            self.content.remove(child)16:48
khertan            child.destroy16:48
khertanoups ... sorry wrong windows16:48
khertanwindows switching too fast ... sorry16:49
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inzcyberholic, I don't know what language you dev'd in, but strftime and %B give you the month name16:50
inzOh, it was flash16:50
inznevermind then16:50
khertaninz > flash is not a language :)16:50
eber_khertan: when will you release your calendar ? :)16:51
cyberholiclcuk. thanks a lot! I have changed the monthname. The monts are loaded by the system and i put the var into an array. To tell you the truth, i do not know if Flash can get the monthname like in php e.g. ... I have changed the "finger-sliding" from up to down, because this works better when the device is on the table.16:51
inzkhertan, nope, it's a plague16:51
khertaneber_: lol ... i've just started it today16:51
cyberholicAnd as mentioned, there is now a autoslider, what means that it changed automaticly from tool to tool in a given time.16:51
khertaneber_: and what you see is a piece of a test file16:52
lcuk_3cyber, can you paste a link here - ive got my 810 in and will test on device :)16:54
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cyberholicIt looks like i will have to take the "monthly" calendar from my application, as it seems to bring my device down to its knees.16:55
cyberholicIf you want to download it
lcuk_3khertan, pasting like that gives away top secret things ;)16:55
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eber_khertan: ok i'll monitor your web page16:58
lcuk_3cyberholic, that clock would make a really good screensaver for nokia devices.  its a shame it is flash16:59
lcuk_3isnt the scrolling backwards?   i swipe my stylus down the screen and the content scrolls upwards (and the inverse occurs)17:01
lcuk_3its like being drunk17:01
NaviYeah, you're right :o17:02
Navicyberholic, you're such a boob17:02
lcuk_3it was correct when it was sideways17:03
lcuk_3swipe from right to left (like turning a page) scrolled it correctly17:03
lcuk_3only problem i have is i keep knocking my 810 over when its on its stand17:03
Naviautoslider ho17:03
NaviI can't figure out how to bring up the menu again :317:04
cyberholiclol... sorry.... does it work now?17:04
lcuk_3once its gone, its gone17:04
lcuk_3i dont know, how do i reload17:05
Navidown is still up17:05
cyberholiclcuk: you can get the menu by sliding from left to right17:05
Naviyeah, figured that out17:05
lcuk_3it started to be right, but then it went backwards again17:06
Naviit was never right for me17:06
cyberholicshall i take the "monthly" calender view away? It needs soooo much power and the slide does not look great17:07
konttorisolmumaha: any idea why .desktop wont run when I have Exec: sudo usbcontrol ?17:07
Naviis executable?17:08
lcuk_3can you automatically change the flash quality setting to low?17:08
cyberholicyes, i think so!17:08
lcuk_3navi, check the attribute17:08
Navilcuk_3, what?17:08
lcuk_3it might help ive just done it and it makes the scrolling a bit smoother17:08
lcuk_3check the attributes of the file17:08
NaviI'm not the one who needs help...17:09
lcuk_3<Navi> is executable?17:09
Navi[09:07:33] <konttori> solmumaha: any idea why .desktop wont run when I have Exec: sudo usbcontrol ?17:09
lcuk_3lol good point...17:09
lcuk_3konttori, have you built usbcontrol with the correct target17:10
solmumahakonttori: maybe full path for usbcontrol?17:10
lcuk_3ie, are you trying to run a program built for x86 on your 8x0 instead of rebuilding it for ARMEL17:10
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lcuk_3cyberholic, it scrolls faster on the simpler screens with low quality but the month view still kills it17:11
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Navioh sweet17:13
Naviscreen rotation :317:13
Navixrandr support, yey \o/17:14
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lcuk_3i was playing with rotation last night and other bits17:17
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lcuk_3nothing as clean as this17:17
Navireally fast and sexy17:17
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lcuk_3no, i was seeing what the framebuffer would handle17:18
cyberholicwhat system is running on the screen rotation video?17:18
* lcuk_3 is starting to understand the omapfb17:18
lcuk_3pupnik, hi there17:18
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pupnikhi lcuk_3 what's cooking17:19
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lcuk_3my sinuses mainly, or least it feels like it17:19
Navipupnik, me has another tablet dream >_>17:19
lcuk_3i managed to lock up my 810 nicely yesterday :)17:19
lcuk_3well, broke the screen :D17:19
zoranbroke it literaly?17:20
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lcuk_3no, just changed the fb params in such a way they wouldnt reset17:20
lcuk_3i was left with a 480*480 desktop17:20
NaviThere was a prize of 6,000 bucks in a race around the US17:21
lcuk_3pupnik, was it you or lardman who has the specs for the lcd device17:21
zoranconnect via ssh and change it17:21
pupniklardman is gone for a couple of weeks17:21
lcuk_3it was connecting by ssh that broke it in the first place :P17:21
pupniki didn't request it17:21
lcuk_3:O oh now17:22
Navigoing to different checkpoints in different states. I planned out my route with my brother, got in my car, then jumped out running to my room screaming "MAEMO MAPPER, MAEMO MAPPER!"17:22
lcuk_3where he gone17:22
lcuk_3he cant have a holiday17:22
pupnikhe said gone for xx days i forget the number17:22
* lcuk_3 has a great dev chain working now which auto scp the exe then run it directly17:22
lcuk_3thats ok, ill suss it17:22
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pupniki'm interested in your work and possible applications to sdl programs17:23
lcuk_3ive been poking away at the framebuffer and between the mplayer code and the open source omapfb there seems to be something missing17:23
lcuk_3yer so am i17:23
lcuk_3but im not having much luck dropping the plane count down but i am starting to understand how mplayer sorts out refreshes17:23
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pupnikwould it be possible to implement a 400x240 8-bit mode?17:24
ssvblcuk_3: you can find lcd docs at
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ssvbpupnik: no, it is not possible17:25
pupnikyou said that x is doing 8-16 bit 'in the background' yes?17:25
ssvbpupnik: well, at least it is not directly supported by hardware (it can be always software emulated though)17:25
pupnikdid you do anything with newvox?17:26
K-Foxskype is supported video on n800 ?17:26
ssvbpupnik: not yet17:26
lcuk_3pupnik, it should be17:26
ssvblcuk_3: what should be?17:26
lcuk_3sdl already does an 8 bit mode and when i revert to having an sdl base i will test pushing the update (including doubling) whilst using sdl to init the mode17:27
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NaviK-Fox, not yet17:27
lcuk_3ive got an x11 base at the moment and its a shared window so other things are jumping in - i cant lock out other processes because im not a kernel module :(17:27
ssvblcuk_3: 8-bit mode ends up doing rgb565 screen updates anyway17:28
K-FoxNavi: ok17:28
lcuk_3hmmm ssvb, if you are writing only 8 bits to a chunky plane then that should be whats being sent across, or does sdl do another intermediate copy from 8bit chunky to 16bit framebuff - then onwards to the lcd17:29
lcuk_3by the way, which lcd model am i looking for17:29
ssvblcuk_3: check
ssvbthat's the lcd controller from N80017:30
K-Foxis it possible to update web browser of OS 2007(Maemo) to flash 9?17:30
ssvbit clearly specifies what color formats are supported17:30
ssvbfor example we can have 32bpp color format supported (it should work fine for 400x240)17:31
lcuk_3yer i got that far, and setting the flag on the refresh does cause it to update differently17:31
NaviK-Fox, no.17:31
lcuk_3but when setting it to any of the planar formats i can still get fullcolor...17:32
lcuk_3so im not setting it right17:32
lcuk_3but for all other color options (rgb/yuv etc) it works17:32
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ssvblcuk_3: omapfb driver supports many different LCD controllers, probably you are reading the bits that are not related to internet tablets17:32
lcuk_3yes i know and thats why i came here asking for specific lcd models - ill see whats avail for this one :)17:33
K-FoxNavi : ok~~~~17:33
lcuk_3the thing is, if i set anything outside the bounds i get failure errors with the init functions - ie invalid args into FBIOPUT_VSCREENINFO) but when i try the same setting it to 1bit it doesnt fail..17:35
lcuk_3anyway, ill have a butty and a read through all this :) thanks for the pointer ssvb17:35
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ssvblcuk_3: checking dmesg log helps identifying lcd type17:41
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ssvblcuk_3: omapfb driver is not perfect and may have bugs :)17:41
lcuk_3i know that :) ive seen a few along the way, but its helped me get a feel for how user interacts with kernel17:42
ssvblcuk_3: for example it did not support YUV420 color format on Nokia 770 properly (the device deadlocked)17:42
ssvblcuk_3: the driver on N800 had problems with 'zoomed desktop'17:42
lcuk_3i have a target i am aiming for but im just browsing around at the mo pulling levers and twiddling knobs as i go17:42
ssvblcuk_3: what are you trying to achieve?17:43
lcuk_3something that the hardware cant do based on this documentation.   single bitplane monochrome graphics...17:44
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pupnikarghh for commander keen 4 i need to drop down to 450 cycles to get sound blaster/adlib playback17:45
lcuk_3theory being - if i can send single bit planar bytes down instead of 16bits per pixel then screen update time can be reduced upto 16x...17:45
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lcuk_3it appears tho i might have to close this line of enquiry (so long as this lcd documentation is correct)17:47
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pupnikAfaik all we have are some 12-bit yuv mode available17:48
pupnikAnd possibly this could be useful for 8 and 32-bit SDL games17:49
lcuk_3yes but that still requires 16bits per pixel17:49
lcuk_3you could get fast updates if you locked into greyscale and only touched every even byte of the buffer17:49
pupnikYou have read the maemo developer list where ssvb did the framebuffer tests?17:49
lcuk_3but the savings wouldnt be worth it because of byte updates being slow than short/int17:50
lcuk_3i think so, didnt think it was ssvb17:50
ssvbpupnik: these test results may be outdated nowadays17:50
lcuk_3if you still have the code, it might be an idea to rerun them17:50
lcuk_3if the kernel got updated since then some of the fixes suggested along the way might have been put in17:51
pupnikssvb: maybe you can help point lcuk_3 towards an implementation you think might be worthwhile in the sdl context17:51
ssvbpupnik: they were done with the first revision of N800 firmware, and some of the limitations were caused by software problems17:51
lcuk_3pup, im gonna re-point myself down the sdl tree anyway - i got close to what i wanted re:fullscreen book reading, but got sidetracked with the 1bit updates.  i may rebuild where i left off and follow the sdl code down and see if anything glares out at me17:53
pupnikOne idea i had which would require a lot of rewriting per-app would be to translate all graphics to rgb565 on load, using the low bit of the green as an alpha mask17:53
ssvbhmm, it is interesting, they list RGB332 in the product brief17:53
pupnikBut the amount of work there is extremely high.17:53
ssvbbut I don't see how to activate this mode in the documentation17:54
pupnikthe DOS game Magic carpet used RGB 332 i think17:54
lcuk_3in the spec 1.02 they say rgb(8:8:8    6:6:6    5:6:5) or YUV(4:2:2    4:2:0)17:54
pupnikAn rgb 888 mode at 400x240 might speed up sdl games that want 24/32 bit17:55
lcuk_3the yuv modes however (from omapfb side) are all marked as 16bit17:55
lcuk_3i think im gonna print this lot off and go see what i can digest17:56
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ssvblcuk_3: that's why I find it confusing, 'product brief' mentions rgb332 and 'spec' does not, maybe it is worth writing to Epson support and try to clarify this information17:57
wald0i have connected my USB keyboard to a alimented hub, and it to my n800 with chinook... but the keyboard not works, any tip ?17:57
lcuk_3wald0 there is a usb mode setting you need to make somewhere i think17:58
jott• section 3.3 Input Data Formats - delete RGB 3:3:2 from first bullet17:58
jott(from the spec)17:58
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lcuk_3good old change logs17:59
lcuk_3well spotted jott17:59
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jottbut who know what the "reserved" input formats are ;)17:59
ssvbjott: aha, thank you, so they just forgot to update the 'product brief'18:00
jottseems so, yes18:00
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Stskeepshrm, any of you have tried creative wifi/usb/ethernet ways to lets say, throw streaming/display from a n800 on to a TV?18:01
ssvblcuk_3: btw, yuv420 is 12bpp mode (with quite a weird layout)18:01
lcuk_3im beginning to think we should be treating this framebuffer like the powervr - dont assume we know all its features and just see what we can make it do18:01
lcuk_3Stskeeps, x11vnc18:02
lcuk_3not quite onto a tv but big monitor18:02
ssvblcuk_3: but we have full documentation and open source driver, it is definitely fixable18:02
lcuk_3yes i know its fixable18:02
lcuk_3if somebody originally thought the device had an 8bit update mode then it might actually still be buried in there18:03
ssvblcuk_3: at least a patch to fix yuv420 support on 770 exists:
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devStskeeps: stream what to a tv? I stream music from the n80018:10
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seraph1mankod, hi18:11
mankodseraph1, hello :)18:11
Stskeepsdev: in this instance a combination of RTP streams and current display on the device :P18:12
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devStskeeps: ah ok, that's something different18:13
ssvblcuk_3: here is some information about yuv420 framebuffer layout:
ssvblcuk_3: if you you have some questions about using omapfb, you can ask me and I'll try to share the information I know18:16
wald0lcuk_3: i have set the "developer mode" or something similar in the boot stuff... if you mean this mode18:16
lcuk_3thanks ss :) im just looking at it all now18:16
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lcuk_3that little text file corrosponds with the strangeness i saw last night...18:17
lcuk_3wald0 for usb host mode there is a flag, hang on ill find it.  it works for 810, not sure about for 800 though.  ill find a link18:20
ssvblcuk_3: if you have enough free time and motivation, I suggest trying to add support for RGB color formats to Xv extension18:20
ssvblcuk_3: this way we can get arbitrary scaling support and set video modes such as 320x200 for example :)18:21
lcuk_3ssvb, i am only just starting to poke around with the framebuffer, but will be glad to feed back any of my results as and when i get them :)18:22
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lcuk_3at this point am i right in thinking the actual framebuffer is same hardware for 800 and 81018:23
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ssvblcuk_3: I don't have 810 yet, but my guess is that they are identical in this respect18:24
lcuk_3good because im gonna pick up an 800 asap and dont wanna duplicate everything18:25
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lcuk_3tho i fell in love iwth 810 for its keyboard now i have it i dont use it half as much as i thought i would18:25
lcuk_3and infact have just bought an apple wireless board for it18:26
ssvblcuk_3: framebuffer is an area in the system memory, and the data gets transmitted to the real video memory via DMA on screen update ioctl18:26
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lcuk_3yer i know and setting a flag on the update ioctl call tells it what format data andwhere it should go18:27
* lcuk_3 has been heavily playing there the last couple of days18:27
lcuk_3i was getting a bit frustrated with the var and plane calls (which appear to have been ripped out of mplayer trunk code)18:28
ssvblcuk_3: I found video planes a bit complicated and not very useless18:29
ssvbit is much safer to use a 'stateless' API, so that you don't screw up the system if something gets wrong and mplayer crashes for example18:31
lcuk_3yes, i tried following it down the line creating and enabling a plane in the correct format and sending that but it wasnt as fruitful as just setting the update mode flag18:31
lcuk_3yesi noticed that, hence me being left with a 480x480 display...18:31
lcuk_3i got rotation working at one point tho18:32
ssvbyou can enable a video plane and forget to disable it later, the desktop will be overlapped by it18:32
lcuk_3yer because the driver thinks its still needed18:33
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* pupnik ponders18:38
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NaviAre you pondering what I'm pondering?18:39
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ProteousI think so Navi, but where are we going to find rubber pants our size?18:43
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lcuk_3in understand the need for rubber pants, but what on earth is the traffic cone for?18:44
NaviNo Proteous, it's time to take over the world!18:45
* Navi hums the pinky and the brain theme song18:45
Proteousone is a genius ^-- the other's insane <--18:45
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pupnikoprofile saved me from wasting time on stuff at least19:07
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lcuk_3how do i kill named processes and can i do it with ssh19:23
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lcuk_3nm: killall [name]19:27
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n800musicis opera better than mozilla?19:53
lcuk_3pupnik, are you still around19:54
n800musicwhat's faster?19:54
lcuk_3ive only used the one on 810 so dont know19:54
lcuk_3pupnik (or anyone else) if i run an SDL program via ssh it fails "No available video device".  however if i have putty up and run the command there it runs.  any idea how i can get it running?19:56
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lcuk_3other programs (not using sdl) run and initialise and the same program runs - its not a connection problem.  its just not finding the graphics screen19:57
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pupniklcuk_3: still there?20:03
pupniklcuk_3: running sdl programs from a ssh term on the device works20:03
lcuk_3still got problem as well20:03
pupniksu to 'user'20:03
lcuk_3im not sure i know what you mean.  ive got the following: putty terminal:  if i execute command there it runs.    ive also got a line in my script which is: ssh root@ /usr/bin/liq/testprog20:05
lcuk_3are you saying i should su or sudo the call here20:06
lcuk_3ssh root@ sudo /usr/bin/liq/testprog20:06
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lcddwas there ever any followup on the issue of sounds being quiet and distorted when using gstreamer?20:17
lcuk_3pupnik, i think i get what you meant, should the following do what you mean and connect me to the user account? ssh user@ /usr/bin/liq/testprog20:19
lcuk_3or does that start a new session as user but not actually connect to existing user session20:19
GAN800Use screen?20:20
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lcuk_3but im not running a full console session.  its only a single remote command i am doing20:22
pupniklcuk_3:  for testing i keep a shell open on the tablet20:25
pupnikand run any program I want20:25
ssvblcuk_3: check DISPLAY environment variable20:25
pupniki also share my dev tree on the scratchbox via nfs20:25
GAN800ssh spawns a new session, so if you want the same one for local and remote, you'd need screen.20:26
pupnikso the tablet can run things directly from the scratchbox directory20:26
lcuk_3i have made a script inside my vmware box which when run will:  run make.  if it runs without error will copy the executable over to 810 vis scp.  execute 810 using ssh.20:26
lcuk_3it has worked for everything apart from this sdl code20:27
ssvblcuk_3: try to run it as 'DISPLAY=:0.0 ./your_sdl_program'20:27
lcuk_3ok ss, will try20:27
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lcuk_3ssvb, thanks :) that worked20:31
lcuk_3is that because the ssh session uses its own virtual display?20:31
ssvblcuk_3: maybe it was trying to use xserver on your desktop pc for output, you can try 'echo $DISPLAY' to check what it is set to20:33
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lcuk_3it comes out as :0.0 when run via my windows box, but from deep within vmware its
lcuk_3it works now with the alteration so thanks20:37
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NaviOH yeah, that's what I was going to do.20:39
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ssvblcuk_3: you are welcome, I'm glad that my advice was useful20:40
TheFoolcan anyone post a link to the instructions on using a 770 in host mode? I can't seem to find them through google anymore just keep getting n800 specific stuff20:41
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Navigoogle with -n80020:48
NaviI found it pretty easy20:48
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NaviFirst try with "I'm feeling lucky" >_>20:49
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pupniki wish install-from-file would also install dependencies21:07
pupnikhey solmumaha thanks for the wz packaging... it's helping me a lot21:08
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pupnikwb GeneralaAntilles21:08
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TheFoolNavi: lol thanks21:15
TheFoolNavi: What exactly did you search for?21:15
NaviNokia 770 USB Host Mode21:16
TheFoolNavi: darn lol some of the links on that site are dead, but I will keep looking. I overcomplicated my google query...21:17
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TheFoolso basically I reflash with a --enable-usb-host-mode tag and then make a pretty simple circuit...Well since I am reflashing anyway might as well look up how to install to the mmc card...21:21
TheFoolthanks for the help21:21
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BTobotrasMessage did not receive a reply (timeout by message bus)21:48
BTobotrasRings a bell, anybody? :)21:48
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jkuBTobotras, what do you mean -- that's the standard D-Bus timeout message?21:52
BTobotrasjku: probably, but why? :)21:53
jkucould be any reason, depends on context21:53
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BTobotrasjku: well, I'm accessing EDS from maemo app. Works fine in scratchbox x86, fails on the device. Oh, in scratchmox/armel it also fails. That helps.21:57
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jkuI've had serious dbus problems in qemu, not sure if it's supposed to work21:58
jkuAlthough haven't tried in chinook, so it could be better21:58
BTobotrasD-Bus library appears to be incorrectly set up; failed to read machine uuid21:59
BTobotrassounds simple :)21:59
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* pupnik haet packaging22:00
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BTobotrasIt even have been described in chinook documentation :)22:01
* BTobotras beats his head by the keyboard22:01
NaviI want to run E17, but it seems the best out of the IT line to run that is the N810 for the keyboard22:01
NaviDamned keyboard22:01
* Navi shakes his fist at it22:01
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jkucheers hrw22:02
Hrwhi jussi22:02
NaviI wonder...22:03
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Hrwjku: seen my recent maemo post?22:03
EruditeHermithi, is there a page for how to setup scratchbox on debian?22:03
BTobotrasEruditeHermit: sure, it's in INSTALL.txt22:03
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EruditeHermitBTobotras: where is that?22:03
jkuHrw, just read it22:04
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Hrwhmm will have to write how to use OE for maemo one day22:04
BTobotrasEruditeHermit: see
jkuHrw, absolutely22:04
Hrwjku: i wonder how near true i was in post :)22:04
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, oe is OpenEmbedded (see ), or "Opportunistic Encryption" (see ), or an email client which is not to be spoken of.22:05
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BTobotrasjku: I see22:06
Hrwbtobotras: oe do whole crosscompilation without messing with crapbox or qemu22:06
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jkuBTobotras, I guess you could call OE a "standard" way to do cross-compilation/packaging -- at least compared to maemo22:07
Hrwwhat suprise me is lot of unsupported syscalls in maemo logs recently22:07
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Hrwmaemo 4 use nptl but qemu do not know it on arm (by default)22:08
BTobotrasjku: sounds good22:08
jkuHrw, it is weird that there is no "messaging subsystem/API"22:08
HrwJku: it is not weird. its nokish22:08
HrwIf something can be made wrong they will try it22:09
jkugive them some slack -- it's not like others have succesfully solved that problem. limited resources and alll that22:09
HrwNOLO update for "power on drama" is ready but cannot be released yet22:10
EruditeHermitBTobotras: is there a page for how to build packages using scratchbox?22:10
jkustarting with jabber is a pretty good first step22:10
BTobotrasEruditeHermit: yep. The same place :)22:11
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* BTobotras installed scratchbox today, and has a more-or-less working "hello, world" already22:11
Hrwhow helloworld can be moreorless working?22:11
Hrwit works or not22:12
Hrwbut maybe scratchbox adds third option.. never tried that22:13
Hrwfriends already told me enough about it to not make me try it22:14
BTobotrasHrw: well, this helloworld fails to connect to e-d-s proxy to fetch addressbook; haven't a clue on right way to update progress bar in HildonBanner; somewhere misses right Gtk+ packing discipline etc.22:14
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Hrwlot of things in helloworld app22:15
jkuyour hello world is bloated :)22:15
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BTobotrasIt surely is :)22:15
pupnikapp isn't starting.  .desktop has a X-Osso-Service entry...22:16
jkuooh, Clutter on Moblin:  Launcher like that must be useless in everyday use but it does make the UI look _really_ cool22:18
Hrwbtobotras: does it fetch owner name from addressbook (progressbar on it) + window with "hello world, here is FULLNAMEOFOWNER"?22:18
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Hrwjku: clutter can do lot of nuce things... too bad that tablets lack 3D accel..22:19
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Hrwbut thats expected. nokia legal department (80% of company) will never allow to release such stuff if it exist at all22:20
BTobotrasHrw: Well, I can fetch everything from addressbook in scratchbox/x86, but nowhere else :)22:21
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BTobotras GLIB WARNING ** Gtk - gtk_widget_size_allocate(): attempt to allocate widget with width -24 and height 0 also makes me angry22:23
Jaffajku: I dunno, that launcher looks more useful than OS2008's app menu if you've got more than 36 apps22:24
jkuJaffa, you may be right :)22:25
jkualthough I have to admit I like the menu -- I probably just haven't hit the limit22:25
Hrwi do not like os2008 menus22:28
Hrwbut there is no option to back to old ones22:28
pupniksolmumaha: there?22:30
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Hrw~curse crap called appmanager22:41
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, crap called appmanager !22:41
Hrw~hail apt-get22:42
* infobot bows down to apt-get and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"22:42
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pupnikelb: jott: check out Butler Schaffer's interview with Scott Horton:  On the nature of state, empire and democracy.22:47
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* elb fetches22:48
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pupnikwhy doesn't my *!#@$* icon launch my sdl app22:52
EruditeHermitBTobotras: oh that link installed scratchbox1, how do I get sbox2?22:53
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EruditeHermitBTobotras: and what is the difference/22:54
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BTobotrasEruditeHermit: erhm. No idea, what does sbox1/2 mean. There is scratchbox r4, and there is a ready to use script to download and install correct version of scratchbox. What did you use?22:54
Navipupnik, it hates you22:55
BTobotrasEruditeHermit: "Installing Scratchbox using the installer script" -- you did read that, right?22:55
EruditeHermityeah I have it installed22:55
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BTobotrasEruditeHermit: exactly! Now enjoy :)22:55
EruditeHermitbut I read somewhere that there was scratchbox2 out22:55
BTobotrasEruditeHermit: what is sbox1/sbox2?22:55
EruditeHermitand that scratchbox 1 is obsoleted22:55
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BTobotrasEruditeHermit: version you just installed is r4, if this makes you happy :-P22:56
* Navi slaps BTobotras22:56
EruditeHermitit says its 1.0.8 Apophis22:56
NaviEruditeHermit, you're right.22:56
BTobotrasEruditeHermit: ah, I see22:56
* BTobotras hides22:56
NaviMaemo SDK+ is either alpha or beta, I forget22:56
NaviThat uses SBox222:56
EruditeHermitNavi: is that better?22:57
NaviI couldn't say.22:57
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BTobotrasNavi: what's the diff betweek SDK and SDK+?22:58
NaviSDK+ is built around SBox2 instead of SBox122:58
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NaviThe difference between SDK+ and SDK is the difference between Scratchbox 1 and Scratchbox 222:59
BTobotrasNavi: and that's it? What's in it for the developer then?23:00
NaviExactly what Scratchbox 2 offers.23:00
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Hrwsee you guys23:02
* BTobotras have read what's new in sbox2 and missed the point23:02
NaviFrom what I can read23:03
Navis/I can/I've/23:03
infobotNavi meant: From what I've read23:03
guardianoh nose ! the mamona site is down :D23:03
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BTobotras"the developer is no longer forced to program in closed environment"23:03
* BTobotras shrugs23:03
Naviit sounds like sbox2 uses the libraries installed on your system rather than23:03
Navihaving to have the libraries installed from within sbox23:04
BTobotrasNavi: yes, but my x86 system doesn't carry arm libraries anyway. So I have to have cross tools in either case...23:04
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BTobotrasWell, I'll check that again when my developer's experience will grow beyond first day :^)23:05
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pH5has anybody found a binary driver for powervr for some omap2420 device until now? (n95 comes to mind, if it is possible to extract system files from that)23:20
lcuk_3pupnik, did you get your icon launching it?   (sounds like the frustration i had earlier)23:21
EruditeHermitNavi: once you have debian arm packages, is it trivial to compile maemo packages from them?23:21
pH5even if the pvr.ko from the omap2430 sdk turns out to be theoretically able to drive the omap2420's mbx too, there are some values hardcoded for the mbx lite in it.23:21
NaviI gotta go, sorry23:21
lcuk_3ph5, do nokia release firmware updates for n95 like they do for 8x0?23:22
pupniktesting it lcuk_323:22
pupnikyeah it works, i had to move the .desktop from /usr/share/applications/hildon to /usr/share/applications23:23
lcuk_3glad its working now :)23:24
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pH5lcuk_3: I think so, but you need a n95 product code to dl them from nokia at least23:30
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lcuk_3maybe, i just spotted a site with a big list of codes for various countries, the thing i see as different is that for n95 they *arent* offering the linux .bin file download and expect users to ONLY use the automatic windows updater23:32
lcuk_3ie, you cannot get the file until the updater think you have an n95 plugged in and that its out of date23:32
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maddlerhmmm... new rtcomm bet is out...23:35
pupniki need to hack xmms to allow me to delete the currently playing song with a special keyboard key23:35
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* maddler wonders what's new in this release...23:36
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pupnikwho wants to test new dosbox for OS2008?  fixed the keyboard issue for N810...
raboofi'm looking for a hackable phone. looks like maemo doesn't run on phones, and openmoko is not there yet both hard- and software-wise23:49
raboofany alternatives?23:49
pupnikget a cheap/free phone and a N81023:50
elbyeah, "hackable phone" is pretty much a non-starter23:50
pupniki wonder if i could just put "apt-get install libSDL-net" into my postinst script23:51
raboofwell, openmoko looks good, except that it'll take them a while before they have stuff like battery life an making actual phonecalls in a usable state :)23:52
pH5pupnik: don't do that, it's evil :)23:52
pupnikpH5: ok.  well if a noob clicks on my .deb it will refuse to install since they don't have libsdl-net23:53
pupniki could be more evil and bundle the library with the package23:53
pH5pupnik: but that's what package dependencies are for.23:53
raboofadd the lib as a dependency and fix whatever application handles 'a user clicking on a deb' to support them? :)23:54
pupnikwell then app manager should go and hunt for dependencies when user chooses to "install from file" or install from a webpage23:54
pupnikraboof: sure, that's what i am suggesting.  have maemo "application-manager" resolve and install dependencies when installing from a file23:54
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