IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-01-26

Blafaselzookie: Did, works now ;)00:00
Blafasel|tbb|: Hmm.. Doesn't work for me, different versions.00:00
|tbb|yeah u need 4.000:00
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Blafasel0.4.1 on the server.. 0.4.0 isn't even offered as package. *sigh*00:01
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zookiebeer's empty00:11
Blafasel2 left here. More than enough, given how tired I am..00:12
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zookiewell one left, im  just too lazy to  get it :/00:13
zookiemm need  a fag00:15
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|tbb|anyone knows how to send messagebox to maemo-desktop with dbus-send00:19
GeneralAntillesVery carefully, |tbb|. :P00:20
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zookietrue that00:20
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zookieit might bite :/00:20
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Tama^2yes it does not like to be messaged xD00:21
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|tbb|GeneralAntilles: what you mean?00:24
GeneralAntillesRead as: I don't know. ;)00:24
Tama^2I remember reading how to do it but I cannot recall where I read it00:26
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|tbb|ihave found something inz should know more about it, but this dont work on chinook for me00:30
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BlafaselOne more beer and then off to bed.. And tomorrow I'll start to read about wifi drivers. Hopefully? Damn, it's hard to overcome one's own lazyness.00:35
lcukits strange how i need to sleep ealier at weekends than in the wekpek00:35
zookiewifi is evil00:35
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zookiemm just found  another beer :D00:38
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zookiemm girlfriend just arrived in london, hope she doesn't expect an answer to her sms ^_^00:40
Blafaselhrhr. Where're you from?00:41
zookiehamburg, germany00:41
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spirytusickre all00:42
zookieyo  spirytusick whassup00:42
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spirytusickcruisin.. :)00:43
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Lurianic  zookie, wifi is my moble isp00:45
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zookieits evil00:47
BlafaselJust listening to HH based music ;)00:48
zookiedynamite deluxe? kettcar? something completely different? ;P00:49
BlafaselWow, quite good..00:49
Lurianicisp's are evil00:49
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Lurianicso, universal order is maintained.00:50
zookiemm dynamite deluxe? new album?00:50
BlafaselI'll visit Dynamite Deluxe as soon as they're going to play in Cologne (Feb/March, iirc), but I currently listen to, "Eins Zwo" ;)00:50
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zookiemm dendemann00:50
zookiegood choice :)00:50
BlafaselAye. Saw him live, he's great!00:51
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zookiewell i hope i'll get some dd-tickets for march ^_^00:51
BlafaselGood luck ;)00:51
zookie1st concert is sold out already :/00:52
pupniksomebody should make a tracker/rhythmbox app for the tablets00:52
zookieyou know curse?00:52
BlafaselSure I do..00:52
t_s_ohmm, modest is being troublesome...00:52
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BlafaselI currently happen to wear a T-Shirt with a barely readable (washed out) signature of Curse..00:53
t_s_ofisrt it crashed when downloading one of my pop accounts, and now it just refuse to download anything from the same account...00:53
zookienice :)00:53
BlafaselYep, Splash! is nice ,)00:53
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zookieyeah, most of my friends aren't into hiphop though :(00:54
Blafasel*shrug* Last time (3rd Splash! visit for me) none of my friends hat the time/money, so I went there alone. It was still great.00:54
zookiesure it is :)00:55
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BlafaselIt's not like you're alone on a (small, yeah, but..) 25 thousand person festival00:55
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zookienothing wrong with having a sexy girl around you though ;D00:56
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BlafaselUhm.. You know that there are a bunch of those anyway? ;)00:56
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zookieas long  as they're not kiddies ;P00:57
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zookieppl in hamburg  listening to hiphop are quite scary sometimes ;P more  like gangstaz00:59
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zookieyeah really01:06
LastLemmingany news about the after N810?01:07
pupnikwimax is planned01:11
LastLemminghey what mean w00t ?01:12
zookien810 is  far  too expensive though01:12
czrwild double-zero tool01:12
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czror sometimes wet double-zero tool.01:13
czrdepends whether you're talking about before or after.01:13
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LastLemmingnext nokia will ship for next 6 months?01:16
LastLemmingn810 got regression like the cam and no fm tuner01:18
GeneralAntillesStupid WiMAX . . . OMAP3 or bust!01:19
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pupnikwimax is a niche01:20
BlafaselI love the N810, but the missing airreply injection support is really evil and would've stopped me from buying it. I just didn't know it before..01:21
zookiequite funny, sells the n800 for 404,-  EUR now  :o01:21
Blafaselzookie: Whaaa? Yeah, really cheap. Not.01:21
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LastLemmingn800 around 230€01:22
zookiethats more like it01:22
zookiegot mine for EUR240,-01:22
LastLemmingI don't know what I should do01:23
LastLemmingget n80001:23
tekonivelI paid 250 iirc01:23
Tama^2Nokia online shop had n800 for about 249 Euro01:23
LastLemmingor wait for next one01:23
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GeneralAntillesN800 > N810 if you don't mind using the fullscreen keyboard.01:23
Tama^2yea, that or a BT keyboard01:23
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I use the N800's fullscreen keyboard with great success.01:24
tekonivelUsb kb too, right?01:24
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LastLemmingwhen will next one will ship?01:24
zookiewhy would i use a bt keyboard? ;P01:24
GeneralAntillesLastLemming, no real info, but my guess is that it can't possibly be more than 8 months from now.01:24
GeneralAntillesN810 wasn't a real upgrade over the N800.01:25
GeneralAntillesSo we're kinda due for one.01:25
tekonivelzookie: so i can eavesdrop on ur passwds :)01:25
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BlafaselThat's not a fact but an impression.01:25
LastLemmingyes if the next one it's just got small update too I should get n800 right now instead to wait01:25
zookieoh  i dont use passwds ;D01:25
BlafaselI wouldn't want to trade the 810 for a 800. Yes, the keyboard is the main reason01:26
GeneralAntillesBlafasel, I can get two N800's for the price of an N810 that'll have less storage.01:26
GeneralAntillesNot worth it.01:26
zookiequite funny  though,  you cant  buy an n800  for decent money atm01:26
BlafaselGeneralAntilles: Subjective. The storage isn't worth a dime for me.01:26
LastLemmingthe n810 can't rotate like n80001:27
LastLemmingand no fm tuner01:27
BlafaselThat's the whole point of these devices for me: Everyone can use it their way.01:27
GeneralAntillesLastLemming, keyboard and outdoor visibility would be the only reason to buy an N810.01:28
BlafaselThe N800 supports GPS as well, right?01:29
LastLemmingoh yeah GPS01:29
GeneralAntillesIt supports bluetooth, yes.01:29
zookiemmm holux m120001:29
BlafaselSo - no?01:29
GeneralAntillesLastLemming, the N810's GPS is a bit of a joke.01:29
BlafaselReally, I don't know it.01:29
LastLemmingm1200 it's the next one?01:29
GeneralAntilles5+ minute cold-starts for a lot of people.01:29
GeneralAntillesLastLemming, Holux M1200 is a Bluetooth GPS.01:30
LastLemmingah ok01:30
BlafaselHm? Live test.. ;-)01:30
zookieand works01:30
GeneralAntilles"for a lot of people"01:30
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zookiewelll  except for  GeneralAntilles01:30
GeneralAntillesI was quoting my self in response to Blafasel.01:31
GeneralAntillesMy i-blue 737 is absolutely fantastic.01:31
LastLemmingGeneralAntilles, are you from Antilles islands?01:31
Blafasel*shrug* Either it's a device thing (for most/all people) or a regional/receiver thing. I never used it til today, my car has its own gps/nav anyway.01:31
GeneralAntillesIncredibly accurate, great battery life, fast acquisition.01:31
GeneralAntillesLastLemming, it's a Star Wars thing.01:31
BlafaselBut just for fun I'll start the maps app right now here in my flat. No idea if it gets a lock at all..01:31
zookiemost likely01:32
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BlafaselHmm.. No idea, really.01:32
BlafaselRunning, searching for sats.01:32
BlafaselHmm.. Seems like this experiment support the poor performance ;)01:34
BlafaselNo lock yet, no useable results. Fascinating.01:34
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tekonivelBlafasel: demo fx01:35
zookiebuild your own sattelites!01:35
GeneralAntillesYes, like I said, the N810's GPS is a bit of a joke.01:36
MagicFab_Hi all01:37
MagicFab_How can I reset my N810 ssh password ?01:37
zookieyo MagicFab_01:37
MagicFab_I am afraid I was a bit too fast in setting it up when I Installed the package.01:37
GeneralAntillesMagicFab_, install becomeroot, the do: sudo gainroot01:38
GeneralAntillespasswd from there.01:38
tekonivelMagicFab_: i was about to suggest to become root and run passwd... I guess out of the question :/01:39
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MagicFab_ok, the usual.01:39
spirytusickall: is there a way of enabling red pill mode from the commandline ?01:39
MagicFab_Another quickie.. where can I find the Pidgin data ? It's usually on ~/.purple on a desktop account01:39
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GeneralAntillesspirytusick, does red-pill do anything from the command line?01:40
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: I have no idea, but I suppose it should...01:41
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: or perhaps it might just be the feature of the package manager01:41
GeneralAntillesThat's kinda what I was figuring, but I'm not sure.01:42
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: and you probably are right...01:42
GeneralAntillesYou may not be able to force certain packages like you can in red-pill.01:42
GeneralAntillesHaven't done any direct testing there.01:42
spirytusickne neither but I think I will01:42
MagicFab_GeneralAntilles, tekonivel - I am in :) tx.01:42
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spirytusickwith the mess with some of the packages having fixed dependencies it is a pain sometimes01:43
zookiepackages suck01:43
matmo_could anyone using the vmware appliance check a couple of things for me? I would like to know the amount of free disk space, the space taken up by the /scratchbox dir and if you have a duplicate ¨scratchbox" dir in /scratchbox/users/maemo?01:44
matmo_(by duplicate I mean same inode as /scratchbox)01:44
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MagicFab_What would be a good text editor for a "nano, non-vi" person like me ?01:50
czrnano? :-)01:50
tekonivelMagicFab_: what's wrong with vi??? :)01:51
* czr remembers why he didn't like buildroot.01:51
tekonivelMagicFab_: ex01:51
zookieroot sux01:51
GeneralAntillesMagicFab_, just learn it, you'll be happy once you do. :P01:51
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MagicFab_GeneralAntilles, I thought you knew about this stuff01:53
LastLemmingbig chance OMAP3 for next nokia?01:53
zookiemmm stuf01:53
GeneralAntillesLastLemming, it's mostly logical deduction.01:53
GeneralAntillesThere's no chance of them moving to x8601:53
tekonivelI don't even know which editors are readdily available in maemp01:53
GeneralAntillesand there aren't really any other ARM platforms for them to move to.01:53
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LastLemmingn800 and n810 it's same one01:54
GeneralAntillesThey can't possibly get away with releasing another one on OMAP2.01:54
LastLemmingand big diff01:54
GeneralAntillesSo it pretty much has to be OMAP301:54
LastLemmingno big diff01:54
tekonivelHow about crusoe?01:54
LastLemmingwith OMAP3 it will be a big diff so?01:55
GeneralAntillesSpecifically the OMAP343001:55
LastLemmingit will like the jump 770 to 80001:55
GeneralAntillesWhy? No more 3rd-party LCD controllers. :D01:55
GeneralAntillesWhich almost certainly means hardware video-decoding and OpenGL acceleration.01:56
GeneralAntilles(makes me giddy just thinking about it)01:56
LastLemmingso I should wait, and keep enough money for the next one :)01:56
tekonivelAnd video out, plskthx01:56
MagicFab_Interesting. Searching for "n810 nano" turned up this:01:57
GeneralAntillesLastLemming, if you can get an N800 on-the-cheap01:57
GeneralAntillesI would do so.01:57
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: Why do you think they decided not to use opengl and video acc with n8x0 ?01:57
GeneralAntillesIt wasn't a decision.01:57
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GeneralAntillesIt was a necessity.01:57
GeneralAntillesAt least as far as I can guess.01:57
GeneralAntillesHardware is limiting it.01:57
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: power wise ?01:57
GeneralAntilles3rd-party LCD controller.01:57
spirytusickwell, pitty but we'll have to live with it01:58
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: so basically, the lcd controller is not compatibile with the gen acc ?01:59
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: strange though that the os2007 had at least partial acceleration for the video01:59
GeneralAntillesNo it didn't.01:59
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: os2008 has much smaller selection of dsp tasks01:59
GeneralAntillesIt's mostly a bandwidth issue to the LCD controller.02:00
spirytusickslow fb02:01
tekonivelI fail to understand why os2008 is not downward compatible02:01
* zookie panics02:02
GeneralAntillesIt's really simple, tekonivel, GTK break. ;)02:02
zookietekonivel, because nokia  doesn't care? just  a guess :/02:02
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: one think I do not understand, is why the n800 is capable of playing a video in full screen (resized but nevertheless) at 25 or 30fps and this is not a bandwidth limitation ?02:02
GeneralAntillesBecause the pixel doubling is done by the controller.02:03
GeneralAntilleszookie, what are you on about?02:03
GeneralAntillesGTK 2.6 isn't compatible with GTK 2.1002:03
GeneralAntillesOS2007 is 2.6, OS2008 is 2.1002:03
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: I know that, but why not do the same to accelerated video and relieve the cpu to do other things ?02:03
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spirytusickGeneralAntilles: the same could have been done with opengl...02:04
tekonivelGeneralAntilles: aha i seel it's not maemo related... Other distros break too?02:04
GeneralAntillesFor the PowerVR, I'm betting Nokia figured it was better not to pay for the drivers than get sub-par performance.02:04
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: for a hacking device they should have provided at least abiity to try things02:04
GeneralAntillesVideo acceleration might be a pipeline issue with the hardware02:04
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: they already did pay for the drivers, most likely anyway02:04
tekonivelGeneralAntilles: i find this hsrd to swallow02:04
GeneralAntillesbut I'm not familiar enough with it to speak directly.02:05
GeneralAntillesspirytusick, drivers cost money.02:05
GeneralAntillesNokia is not a charity.02:05
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: all on newer n series phones have drivers02:05
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: besides, they are partly funding openvr02:05
tekonivelGeneralAntilles: gnu is :)02:05
GeneralAntillesSymbian ≠ Linux02:05
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: That is true, but I do not thinks that the money is the problem02:06
Tama^2I think anyone can download the powervr SDK02:06
GeneralAntillesTama^2, doesn't help.02:06
zookieGeneralAntilles, software delivered to  the enduser usuallly is ok for 70% of users02:06
spirytusickTama^2: yep, but it is useless without the drivers02:06
GeneralAntillesYou need the binary blob part to make it work.02:06
Tama^2I see02:06
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tekonivelEvil, proprietary hardware...02:08
spirytusickGeneralAntilles: I wouldn't be suprised it the arm cores n8x0 are using have disabled the povervr section02:08
spirytusickanyways guys, have a good night...02:10
spirytusicktime to catch up with sleep...02:10
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maddlerhi all02:24
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GeneralAntillesHave you solved all the tablet-word's troubles with Debian yet, johnx. :P02:24
johnxwell, bluetooth works :P02:25
johnxworking on buttons02:25
johnxand epiphany-webkit looks like a really impressive project02:26
tekonivelX11 clients can receive virtualkbd events?02:27
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johnxtekonivel, is that a question for me? you mean when they're running in xomap on debian/n800?02:28
tekoniveljohnx: not to you particularly, but i failed to command my remote emacs over x11 in history02:29
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johnxI don't know enough about X11 to know what that means exactly02:30
tekoniveljohnx: ok mate02:31
johnxand I'm having problems even with the onscreen keyboard in debian02:31
tekoniveljohnx: hehe, your asking for trouble02:31
johnxhow so?02:32
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tekoniveljohnx: os2008->debian change isn't really supported ;)02:33
johnxoh, I know02:33
johnxbut I've got lots of stuff working already :)02:33
tekoniveljohnx: nice02:33
johnxthe rest shouldn't be impossible, just hard :P02:33
tekoniveljohnx: challenges keeps you sharp02:34
johnxworks so far: wifi w/ wpa, bluetooth, touchscreen, x11, and can access on-board nand and sd card02:34
johnxand usb networking02:34
johnxbuttons are next on the todo list02:35
tekoniveljohnx: tell me about your gui setup pls02:35
johnxtekonivel, it's just matchbox02:35
tekoniveljohnx: which wm f.ex.02:35
tekoniveljohnx: i see, i see02:36
johnxI'm not really *using* the N800 right now02:36
johnxI'm mostly SSHed in hacking on stuff02:36
johnxeventually I'd like to have as much of the maemo interface back as is feasible02:36
tekoniveljohnx: right02:36
tekoniveljohnx: whats your motive, just haxooring?02:37
johnxa fully working alternative distribution with thousands of packages available :)02:37
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tekoniveljohnx: <3 i love you02:38
johnxI can't do it all on my own of course :)02:38
johnxright now I want to get enough working that I can convince people to install it and help me02:38
Tama^2*rose petals shower down on the channel*02:38
pupnikbuttons are just function keys02:39
Tama^2looooove is in the air xD02:39
tekonivelTama^2: lol02:39
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johnxpupnik, for whatever reason they don't get mapped to anything in xomap on debian02:40
johnxxev gives me nothing02:40
pupnikoh hrm02:40
johnxbuy showkey tells me they generate codes02:40
johnxI think it might be a hal thing02:40
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pupniki have to debug some keybd problems here too02:41
pupnikunless someone else wants to fix dosbox keys02:41
ds3is the dosbox in the repository suppose to work?02:42
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whoohawhat's a good media player for the n80002:43
whoohai tried media center, canola, and kagu02:43
tekonivelwhooha: pls define "media"02:43
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johnxwhooha, tried ukmp?02:44
whoohasomething that reads smb shares too would be fantastic02:44
whoohalike xbmc02:44
whoohahaven't tried ukmp02:44
tekonivelwhooha: i use quiver+mplayer and native music player02:44
whoohai like having all the album covers and stuff, i think it looks nice02:44
whoohak, installing ukmp02:45
tekonivelwhooha: i seldom listen to music on n80002:45
whoohaoh, i plan on using this for music/movies too02:46
tekonivelI use my n9502:47
whoohaalso, i upgraded to the latest os2008 from nokia's site last night and now i can't get fm radio out of the speakers on headphoens02:47
whoohasays can't switch audio out or something02:47
tekonivelwhooha: but i do watch videos, and mplayer i good for now02:47
whoohayeah i use mplayer in linux02:47
whoohamplayer is good02:47
whoohaplays *02:48
tekonivelwhooha: t, t02:48
whoohat, t?02:48
tekonivelwhooha: waiting for vlc02:48
whoohayeah vlc on the n800 would be nice02:49
GeneralAntillesWhy does everybody seem to think VLC is gonna be better than mplayer?02:49
GeneralAntillesmplayer has 2 years of heavy optimization behind it.02:49
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dorkybotwhooha: saw something about issues with wxGTK which vlc uses for the gui02:50
johnxeither way, they can try it for themselves:
jacques-workheh, every time I buy into the hype about VLC I find out it doesn't work for me02:50
tekonivelwhooha: there have been betas02:50
dorkybotvlc is great on many distros02:50
pupnikhow nice that the mplayer vs vlc camps aren't violent02:51
tekonivelGeneralAntilles: just that i use vlc on desktop too02:51
whoohaalso anyone know of a smb/cifs mounter02:51
GeneralAntillesmplayer and VLC on the desktop are virtually identical performance wise.02:51
GeneralAntillesVLC on the tablets is a hack02:51
GeneralAntilleswith no optimization02:51
tekonivelGeneralAntilles: but much respect to mplayer of course02:52
GeneralAntillesmplayer has tons and tons of tablet-specific optimization.02:52
jacques-workincluding arm-specific optimizations02:52
pupnikit's the most advanced user-space app on the tablet in that regard02:52
|tbb|anyone knows, what is the latest fw of n810 called?02:52
johnxGeneralAntilles, actually a lot of those optimizations *are* factored out into ffmpeg02:53
tekonivelOn a handheld tjhe U must be troublefree... MediaBox, canola or somesuch02:54
johnxVLC could use them too, if they used maemo-mplayer's version of ffmpeg02:54
infobottekonivel meant: On a handheld tjhe UI must be troublefree... MediaBox, canola or somesuch02:55
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whoohai like mediabox the best so far03:16
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|tbb|how can i access  the values under this path  /apps/osso/inputmethod/hildon-im-languages/da_DK:   with gconftool-2 ?03:22
|tbb|the ":" is a problem03:23
|tbb|but \: wont help03:23
Garysimple question - is xchat ported to the N810?03:23
Garyoh and is it easy to use on such a device?03:24
|tbb|oh my fault the : doesnt stays in the path03:26
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johnxGary, it looks like there's at least a beta of's theoretically on the forums but I can't connect to them right now (?)03:29
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johnxor maybe not03:29
* GeneralAntilles does his song and dance again.03:29
Garyooow, cool03:30
Garyanyone tried it?03:30
GeneralAntillesYes? :P03:30
GeneralAntillesIt works great.03:30
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Garyexcellent, as easy to connect as on linux?  (ie connecting with many on join options)03:31
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Garygreat, looks like i'll be buying a n810 soon then03:32
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pupnikxchat is really nice on the n81003:34
GaryGeneralAntilles, erm, can I get python scripts working too?  (google for the script I mean)03:34
GeneralAntillesI'm assuming so.03:34
Garythank you for your help03:35
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acydlordi hate nokia right now03:40
acydlordwhen i left for work thismorning there were still n810s in stock, so i deposited my paycheck today, get home, and they are out of stock03:41
johnxthere are a lot of things that I am mad at Nokia for, but "their products sell too quickly" is a new one to me03:42
johnxs/a lot/a couple/g03:42
infobotjohnx meant: there are a couple of things that I am mad at Nokia for, but "their products sell too quickly" is a new one to me03:43
johnxwow, infobot, you are not too quick on the draw this morning :/03:43
acydlordi think they only put like 3 in the store at a time03:43
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Garyi'll have to order it online03:44
acydlordthats how i was trying to order mine03:45
GeneralAntillesacydlord, if you really need one, there's always ebay.03:45
acydlordebay doesnt support my discount03:45
GeneralAntillesbackorder it, then?03:45
acydlordthey don't support backordering03:46
LastLemmingwhat it's a still good price for n800 on ebay?03:46
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dorkybotoh sorry that's n81003:48
dorkybotsaw n800 about 2 something03:49
acydlordyeah, one of my friends just got an n800 new for 20003:49
dorkybotnot bad, "but it now" is 230-27003:50
dorkybotbuy it now"03:50
dorkybotwish the n800 had the 810 keyboard but kept the 2 sd slots03:51
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johnxdorkybot, almost everyone does :)03:51
dorkybotwasted most of today hunting for mini and micro sd's03:52
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Solarionn810 does both, right?03:53
dorkybotmicro in a mini converter03:53
dorkybotor a mini03:53
GeneralAntillesjohnx, not me. :P03:53
Solarionso the micro has to have a mini converter, or the n810 has a converter?03:53
dorkybotyou need to get the converter to use a micro03:54
johnxso you like having less storage in a harder to find format?03:54
dorkybotmini's seem to be phasing out03:54
dorkybotin favor of micro03:54
Solarionnewegg has mini with SD converter.03:54
Solarionfully tasty03:54
Solarionat least, in theory; I've no n810 yet03:54
GeneralAntilleser, the keyboard with the crappy d-pad positioning.03:55
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dorkyboti resolved to wait until the $19 4gb mini comes back in stock at newegg, then get a 12gb sandisk when they come out in a few months03:55
johnxmeanwhile I could use a whole pile of 4 or 8GB SDHC cards03:56
johnxa kernel update for the Zaurus added SDHC support so now I can finally standardize on one format :)03:57
EnigmaCurryAnyone know of a cron daemon for maemo platform? I found a reference to but it's dead..03:58
dorkybotgeez, how many gadgets you got?03:58
johnxdorkybot, I collect Linux handhelds :)03:58
dorkybota worthy pursuit03:58
johnxdorkybot, zaurus 5500, zaurus c1000, n80003:58
johnxactually the zaurus 5500 will only support normal SD I think03:58
dorkybottry hacking linux onto an ipaq for fun :)03:58
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pupniki had debian on the Psion netbook03:59
johnxdorkybot, nah. I like having a keyboard03:59
johnxpupnik, that must have been awesome03:59
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dorkybot4300 had kb03:59
johnxEnigmaCurry, I compiled it in mud-builder03:59
johnxlet me find a link03:59
pupnikjohnx: well it was sufficient.  ssh, vnc04:00
johnxpupnik, which netbook was it04:00
johnxI look at those every so often and really want one :)04:00
pupnikregular netbook, 32MB04:00
johnxyeah, 32MB is kind of limiting04:01
pupnikyes, and the screen sucks04:01
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EnigmaCurryjohnx: I'd appreciate it :)04:01
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dorkybothow about jkk's mods for evdo and bluetooth in the eeePC and tether it to an IT04:02
GeneralAntillesWhy not just use a data-capable phone?04:03
dorkybotwalk around with eee as a high power server and the it as a thin client with ssh and vnc04:03
johnxdorkybot, don't encourage me ... :|04:03
dorkybotthe eee would have more storage and lots of linuxy apps to play with04:03
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dorkyboti'm gonna do that with my evdo vaio04:04
johnxbut really I always wanted to build a portable data tank out of a gumstix board attached to a 9cell laptop battery04:04
johnxEnigmaCurry, ... I guess I never posted a pre-compiled .deb of it. Do you have scratchbox?04:05
EnigmaCurryNo, but it's the beginning of the weekend. Looks like I've got a project :)04:05
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dorkybotthis nokia thing is gonna pull me away from gentoo back to debian04:07
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ds3johnx: what rom is the SDHC mod for on the Z?04:22
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johnxreports of success seem to be coming from people using a late release of the angstrom kernel (either with angstrom or debian)04:23
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ds3that's all 2.6 stuff, IIRC04:23
ds3i prefer Cacko for the time being04:23
johnxfair enough...I just got epiphany-webkit installed on debian/zaurus and it would be hard for me to give it up now :)04:24
ds3does the Hancom stuff still work in Angstrom?04:25
ds3they are quite usable as a WP and SS04:25
johnxangstrom is all X11/GPE now04:25
ds3didn't know they dropped OPIE04:25
johnxabiword works nicely, and I think gnumeric does too04:25
johnxds3, opie development slowed down for a while (read: stopped)04:26
ds3Gnumeric was irritating when I tried it on the N80004:26
johnxI never tried it on any handheld04:26
ds3johnx: I only followed it when i was actually tried to use the collie so it has been a while04:26
johnxbut some new people picked up opie development04:26
ds3I found I actually liked the Hancom stuff when i used it on a trip04:27
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johnxso it's a choice for newer angstrom images ... but I don't think they still support backwards compatibility with old sharprom stuff04:27
johnxabiword is really good on the zaurus actually. runs fast enough and it's easy to get the text zoomed enough to see04:28
ds3wonder if there is anyone trying to put in an emulation layer on Maemo so we can run Z ipk binaries04:28
ds3johnx: does it do file format conversions?04:29
johnxyeah, I think04:29
johnxthrow me a .doc you want me to try :)04:29
ds3don't think I have one handy.... it is mostly for the times when irritating suits insist on sending you a .doc file04:29
johnxfor me that usually results in a quick handoff to google docs to make it come back as something workable04:30
pupniki hate .docs04:30
johnxactually I think I have one to test04:30
dorkybotthis control freak company would have a fit if i sent their stuff to ggogle04:31
johnxunderstandable for internal stuff I guess04:31
ds3i like to keep private documents private, no google04:32
johnxbut if I receive a .doc these days it already ended up in my gmail account anyways04:32
dorkybotbanks get touchy04:32
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ds3how much memory is consumed using X then with Qt/Opie?04:34
johnxnot booted into angstrom right now. I'm in debian.04:35
johnxthat wouldn't be a really fair comparison :)04:35
ds3moving to X11 on the Z really feels like one of those 'if it ain't broq, don't mess with it' thing04:35
johnxit depends on your point of view04:36
johnxif you're not interested in new software and are happy with stuff that's already out then Qt/E is fine04:37
johnxbut development of new software for Qt/E is pretty much non-existent04:37
johnxwith an X server you get lots of things for "free"04:38
ds3I can't think of good things I would get for free other then more memory sinks04:38
johnxby the way, I'm using the same X server as angstrom in debian (Xfbdev)04:38
johnxit wants 7.3% of 64MB04:38
ds3which Z is this?04:39
johnx4.48MB is a worthwhile price to pay for access to tons of apps04:39
ds3that's with microdrive on a PXA270, right?04:39
johnxno microdrive, yes pxa27004:39
dorkybotisn't the goal to gain access to 30,000 apps?04:39
dorkybotwe'll have endless fun porting them04:40
ds3I think having 2 VTs or Qt/VNC type gateway to X is sufficient, IMO04:40
johnxds3, your choice04:40
johnxdorkybot, debian already has ported them to armel04:40
ds3*nod* there are just so many tempting things in 2.6 :?04:40
johnxdorkybot, also I have grand schemes involving hildon :)04:41
ds3better SDIO support, real support for the SiS2VGA thing, etc04:41
dorkybotstill need touchscreen gui goodness04:41
johnxds3, which zaurus do/did you have?04:41
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johnxEnigmaCurry, did you get my message?04:44
ds3johnx: C320004:45
ds3johnx: used to have a collie a while ago04:45
johnxI really wish I had an internal cf slot in my c100004:45
ds3the C3200 is inline to be a traveling laptop type app04:46
ds3is it not there or just not exposed?04:46
johnxds3, no socket, no controller :(04:46
ds3controller? the PXA270 supports 2 slots04:46
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johnxsome critical chip is missing from what I understand04:47
johnxI really liked the collie form factor04:47
ds3i miss having a real serial port like on the collie04:47
ds3no current device has one AFAIK04:47
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johnxsounds right.04:49
johnxusb-to-serial should work fine on a cxx0004:49
ds3it isn't the same04:50
ds3usb to serial has little quirks04:50
johnxyou want it for getting a console on routers, switches, etc I assume?04:51
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johnxI should look into uboot again on the zaurus I guess04:55
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ds3as long as it is an english uboot04:55
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johnxso it looks like dsme handles battery charging?05:16
johnxthis will make things much more interesting :|05:16
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johnxthe best part is that it's closed source05:16
GeneralAntillesSomebody should get the Scientology guys to go raid Nokia for the sources.05:16
GeneralAntillesWhy they keep some of the crap they do closed source, I'll never guess.05:17
GeneralAntillesIt's like they had a lottery.05:17
johnxprobably NDAs or something05:17
johnxI just expected since that since charging was working it was part of the kernel ... like on any sane Linux system05:18
* johnx bangs his head on the table05:18
johnxmaybe they *really, really* don't want anyone running another distro05:19
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pupnikApple Iphone is closed source05:19
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GeneralAntillespupnik, your point? :P05:21
GeneralAntillesand it's "iPhone" :P05:21
pupniki'm too tired to have a point.  i'm obtuse05:21
johnxah, well maybe I'll see how feasible it is to setup a wrapper around dsme that can be adapted :/05:23
pupnikyou got wifi working johnx ?05:23
johnxworks great05:23
johnxwpasupplicant, kismet, everything :D05:23
pupnikdoes the driver ha05:24
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pupnik770 or 800?05:24
johnxask b0unc3 about the 770 or search the logs05:24
pupnikwondeirng if the module could be used to help maemo wifi05:24
johnxit's the same module05:24
johnxI'm using Nokia's kernel05:24
johnxthere's one patch to enable wireless extension 18+ that lets wpa-supplicant work05:25
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pupniksince you're using same kernel, maybe dual-boot is doable05:26
johnxI am dual booting05:26
johnxthat's one of the goals05:26
johnxone of the requirements really05:26
pupnikgreat.  looking forward to a torrent05:26
johnxthere's a direct download from two very fast servers05:26
pupnikeven better :)05:27
johnxand here's the link to the wireless driver patch:
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* pupnik tries final fantasy 7 on n81005:32
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pupnikhaha there's an appropriate join05:32
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johnxanyone know if /sys/class/firmware/timeout does what I think it does?05:34
johnxie: adjust the watchdog timeout?05:35
johnxheh...backlight control is stupidly easy05:36
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johnxat least dsme won't interfere there05:37
oilgood morning05:39
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fysapupnik: ff7 at 3spf?05:42
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johnxwell suspend works too :D05:45
johnxseems reliable and quick too!05:46
GeneralAntillesjohnx is gonna take over the world with his Debian N800.05:48
johnxdarn right!05:49
johnxwell crap...I think the watchdog doesn't like suspend05:50
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jz87Does gtkmozembed that ship with os2008 support mathml?05:55
jz87it seems to not be able to parse pages with mathml embedded correctly05:56
pupnikfysa: hey man, you just gotta slow yo mind down by 30x and then it seems fast05:57
fysaI've got that.06:12
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lcukthere is something really strange happening with 810 i have internet set to always ask, last night i manually closed all programs and disconnected.  now  this morning it is connected again.  is there a way to log what migght be causing connection?08:14
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oillcuk: google talk or some cron job?08:16
lcukno im configured, cron  not installed08:17
Tama^2it's really strange08:17
lcukno email setup08:17
lcukits only got power because i am charging, i think i need to monitor packets from desktop end08:18
lcuki made sure i disabled automatic check interval as well. whats ps?08:20
zoranjust type it08:20
lcukmot here i take it08:20
lcukright in the shell...  ok, whichever app is there its getting past my setting of always ask.  that means something bad ishappening08:23
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zoranlcuk, try to find the very one, that stays alive and calls mother earth08:24
zoranps is utility to list all running processes08:24
lcuki just did the ps list, but its not really helpful since im looking for a needle in haystack.   i have only installed xchat as additional network aware program  no addittional media playersalive to scan etc08:27
zoranhave you seen some known app runnig there?08:27
zoranif yes, kill -9 proc_number08:28
oiladditional network aware program?08:28
zoranshutdown -r now08:28
zoranif survive that, it must be something in boot list08:28
GeneralAntilleslcuk, just let it idle overnight. :P08:29
GeneralAntillesIt's not that battery-expensive.08:29
lcukof course theres lots of normal programs, but what i need to see is which is breaking through osso config of "always ask user"  connect automatically is set08:29
zoranwhat's in "sudoers"?08:30
lcukno gen, this is what drains battery.08:30
GeneralAntillesLeaving it connected, or letting it search? :P08:30
whoohahow do I get the big onscreen kb to come up on the n80008:30
whoohacan i make that the default08:30
GeneralAntillescenter d-pad, whooha.08:30
lcukdunno how do i find out08:30
GeneralAntilleslcuk, the wifi powersaving is really good.08:30
zoranshutdown -h now and wait08:30
lcukno search interal "never"08:31
zoranlcuk, you just _have_ to find daemon08:31
lcukthis is like windows dialup managing to get past username dialog and its fucked...08:32
zoranif asks, not in sudo fine08:32
GeneralAntillesMy bet is that the next upgrade will solve it.08:32
zoranGA, would be fine to know now  :)08:33
GeneralAntillesThere's a thread or three on ITT about it.08:33
GeneralAntillesHaven't bothered to pay any attention to them, though.08:33
zoranteh site with blondes on the beatch?08:33
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lcukso an app listed in sudoer would beableto bypass the ask for connection? what would happen if i had it setup to use my phone and expensive data as connect?08:34
zoranyes to first08:35
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't connect, does it?08:35
lcukhow do i list sudoers08:35
GeneralAntillesIt should just bring up the search box.08:35
zoranread it08:35
lcukys but i only have 1 connection configured i rfemovedc phone08:35
zoranless /etc/sudoers08:36
lcukgrrr getiin on big box ...08:36
GeneralAntillesIf something requests a network connection, it'll just bring up the wifi search box.08:36
GeneralAntillesIt wont connect without user intervention.08:36
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zoranI dislike that behaveour08:36
GeneralAntillesSo, no, it wont use your cellular data.08:36
lcuk_2right, ill ssh into box from here, its easier to type08:37
* zoran gone to feed dragons08:37
lcuk_2sometime last night without any user interaction the connection came alive.  i 100% disconnected it and closed all visible apps08:37
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lcuk_2less not found, i can just open in editor cant i08:39
GeneralAntillesor cat08:39
lcuk_2does anyone have a default sudoers list from base flash so i can compare?08:42
lcuk_2and even so, even a root app should not get through the connect dialog without intervention.  that just screams as bad design?08:44
lcuk_2i think im gonna put my packet monitor on the windows desktop end and see whats coming over and go back to bed for a bit08:47
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lcuk_2back later guys, im gonna manualy disconnect again08:50
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k383Is there a way to manually change the CPU speed (without using an sdl program or playing a video) in OS2008 ?08:52
k383I recompiled x48, it works, but it's really slow at the default speed...08:52
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fysacould help explain why OS2008 feels 'slower'09:12
k383Finally, I found the way to force overlocking09:13
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k383In a console : echo userspace > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor && echo 400000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq && echo 400000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq09:15
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k383to return to "normal" mode, echo ondemand > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor && echo 165000 > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_min_freq09:18
fysacan you force a slower speed?09:19
k383I think no, because /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_available_frequencies only lists "165000 266000 330000 400000", 165000 is the slowest09:20
k383... but x48 is really slow too with 400Mhz...09:25
pupnik_x48 is a calculator emulator?09:26
fysai would like to have a script monitor that data while the device sleeps to figure out how much email/rss kill battery.09:27
pupnik_and there's no proc entry to show current freq?09:28
anders_Is there som paint app for os2008?09:32
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XxaxxF6 is Fullscreen ?09:33
pupnik_i think so09:35
k383x48 is an HP48 emulator09:36
k383/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_cur_freq shows you the current freq in kHz I think09:38
johnxpupnik_, cpuinfo09:38
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k383I have to go09:39
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Xxaxxcan I download hildon and matchbox sources ?10:05
proteousthe first real programming I did was on my HP48GX10:05
proteousfun times10:05
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Luriawhere are psks stored?10:31
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eichi_do you all use OS2008 right now? are there much advanteges to os2007 ?10:50
kulveplaybin in gstreamer, sip, higher MHz, better GPS support,10:52
kulveand I think most developers are using it, so I think most of the new software comes mainly for 200810:52
eichi_okay, there is a stabil version right now, isn't it?10:53
eichi_whats very important for me..the ogg support..was on n800 with os2007 not the best. mp3s runs out of the box, ogg doenst. i was screaming the first days...10:54
kulveogg-support works better on 200810:55
kulveeven the built-in Media Player plays oggs somehow now10:55
eichi_okay, that sounds nice10:55
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kulveI'm the author of it, and I'm not testing on 2007 anymore..10:56
kulveand the 2008 seems pretty stable to me10:56
eichi_and maemo mapper works too? i use it helping the openstreetmap projekt, nearly every day. is very important10:56
kulveI haven't tested the maemo mapper on 2008. I need that kind of application so little, that when I need it, I use the Map, that comes with the device10:57
kulvei.e. the Navicore's (Waypoint's) free version of the Map10:58
eichi_i dont know this10:58
keesjI wonder if using maemo-mapper or Waypoint is legal when doing openstreemap stuff10:59
keesjmaemo-mapper with google maps that is :p10:59
kulvekeesj: I'm pretty sure that using google's maps is illegal11:00
eichi_me too. using openstreetmap with maemo mapper is much more nerdy ;) and you can make it more popular too, dont use evil google maps..11:01
kulveeichi_: there's a list of issues with the ogg-support on 2008. Although I already filed a new bug report about buggy meta infos..11:01
kulveeichi_: but you get the maps legally with the Map11:01
kulvefor free11:02
kulveand for the Map, not for maemo mapper11:02
kulvebut before switching to 2008, see that the important apps for you are ported to it. Not nearly all are..11:02
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eichi_i know, but important for me is browser, pidgin, maemo mapper, calculator, maybe kagu with ogg...11:05
eichi_scummvm maybe11:05
eichi_there is no "cant life without" app ;)11:06
eichi_now last question: where can i get os200811:07
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eichi_im right, os2008 isnt under gpl?11:09
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kulveit has lots of components under (l)gpl licenses and lots of closed components11:10
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eichi_hm okay11:14
eichi_i hope one day it will changed ;) but i think so11:14
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kulvethere will always be closed components in Nokia's products.. :/11:16
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eichi_okay, then i have to wait for more like openmoko11:17
eichi_but the n8xx seems one of the best at the moment11:18
eichi_zaurus seems dead11:19
sxpertzaurus *is* dead11:19
eichi_thats wat i mean ;)11:20
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sikor_sxeis there an howto somewhere, which describes how i setup a repository for maemo apps?12:52
sikor_sxein case i want to provide an .install file for my app12:53
melmothsikor_sxe: debian :)12:55
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sikor_sxepheew. ok :)12:56
melmoththat's how i used to have one for bora.12:56
sikor_sxeis it easy to get your stuff into some semi-official maemo repo?12:56
melmothI just needed to launch this after having put the package in the repo12:56
melmothsikor_sxe: not that complicated. hold on12:57
melmothsikor_sxe: it s actually a better idea to have your soft on extra rather than to build yet another third party repo12:57
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sikor_sxegreat, thanks12:59
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sikor_sxehmm, xarchiver is currently beta13:04
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sikor_sxeit sure has some rough edges and might set a tablet on fire13:04
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murrayc_sikor_sxe: Yes, it's easy:
murrayc_sikor_sxe: Please don't use some other random repository.13:13
sikor_sxei'd create my own13:14
sikor_sxeno good idea?13:14
murrayc_Please just use extras and save yourself and users the pain.13:14
melmothsikor_sxe: if the problem is "it s not ready yet", you can push stuff only in a extra-devel sort of repo.13:15
melmothand push it on the main extra one only once you feel it s ready.13:16
sikor_sxe"The admins also select from existing garage users, but in order to ensure that you will receive the necessary rights you must have a "proven track record" as a maemo developer. It means that you have been programming and preparing good quality software(s) for maemo. Your packages are installable with the Application Manager and naturally they do not brick one's device after installing :)"13:19
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sikor_sxei guess i do not have a "proven track record"13:20
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BugBluemmm what is the difference between the N810 02701Z7 and thhe N810 02704N113:25
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tableteerHmm. maemo wiki is still b0rked. When accessing I'm redirected to - does anyone else have the same problem?13:35
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keesjtableteer: I have the same behaviour yes13:46
keesjtableteer: that was for you13:48
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tableteerah, thanks13:50
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* lcuk rubs the sleep out of his eyes14:02
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t_s_ohmm, mentally restless, always a "fun" condition...14:14
lcuktso, just try and setup a new app for maemo14:15
lcukdo a steve jobs and BOOM! here it comes14:15
lcukim sat wondering about processes14:16
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lcuklast night (at some point) either i am going mad and didnt disconnect my network, or some process started it back up without asking me.14:16
lcuki asked about it when i was awoken earlier (ive been back to sleep) and some folks thought it might have been an app having enough priviledges to get onto the net without asking14:17
lcukthats made my head spin because maemo has lots of active processes and daemons14:18
lcukis there a database somewhere which given the maemo process name will indicate what it does and what it effects14:18
lcukthere are similar sites for windows apps (just try searching google for svchost.exe or something14:19
* lcuk wants a steve jobs app to tell him what evil programs are lurking on his machine14:19
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sikor_sxeanyone familiar with
sikor_sxei can't seem to get my homepage recognized14:22
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sikor_sxei uploaded a www dir to svn root14:22
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sikor_sxesomeone told me, this would be the way to activate the project homepage14:23
melmothi do not recall having to do anything at all like that.14:23
sikor_sxewell, what do you *have* to do then?14:24
sikor_sxewhere do i upload my hp?14:24
t_s_ohmm, unless the device is in offline mode, anything should in theory be able to wake up the connection, if there is a "known" ap nearby...14:24
melmothsikor_sxe: it s automatically generated , i do not know how..the main home page of the project is lcoated anywhere you want.14:25
lcuktso, thats right, but connect automatically is set to "always ask" - at the very most i would expect it to have been on the select network dialog (no matter how much battery it drains)14:25
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melmothgarage is just the svn repository+some tools such as bug /feature request crm, mailing lists and so on14:25
melmothsikor_sxe: once you are loged in garage, go on the page (automatically generated)14:26
lcukim gonna start looking through my process list and see what does what and where its expected to touch but it would be better as a shared web app so it can be expanded upon14:26
sikor_sxemelmoth: there's some webspace for homepage, too14:26
sikor_sxei found it14:26
melmothwhere, where ? :)14:27
t_s_ough, starting to understand why people can get addicted to coffee in the morning...14:27
sikor_sxemelmoth: http://<yourproject>.garage.maemo.org14:27
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lcuki tried to, but my youngest finished most of the milk14:27
lcuki was tempted to pour some out of his breakfast, but coffee with rice crispies in wasnt appealing14:28
gimmalhey folks, glad to see some are awake here14:28
sikor_sxemelmoth: and files get in by checking in stuff into svnroot/www14:28
gimmallagged here, but it works ;^)>14:28
lcukhi gim14:28
melmothohhh. interesting14:28
t_s_olcuk: instant pre-blends ;) (if that made any sense)14:28
lcukas long as they include whitener they are ok14:29
gimmalgot a question: I'm considering purchasing an N810, but I'd like to know if there'll be a reasonable possability that I could port SBCl [ ] to work on it.  This, I know, is a complex question - it's more than a matter of porting a GTK app. any advice?14:29
melmothgimmal: what about trying to install the sdk and trying to compile it ?14:30
gimmalFor what it's worth, SBCL can use McCLIM for GUI stuff, which can use GTK for realizing the CLIM stuff. I'm loading the SBCL homepage, right now, to try to check about processor support, either14:30
gimmalmelmoth: sounds like a good idea; I can give it a try, and if it don't, kick it 'til it will, hehe ;)14:31
gimmalN810 uses an ARM architecture, is it?14:32
lcukgimmal, just reading up on it, it does its own bootstrapping and isnt built using gcc at all.  and there isnt yet an armel port.14:33
lcukfrom their page they say its possible (with big buts)14:33
lcukIt should be possible to port it to new CPU architectures, but it would be a lot of work: implementing all the CPU-dependent parts of the compiler backend for the new CPU.14:33
t_s_oheh, i do look forward to when a web tablet comes along with a cortex based cpu under the hood :D14:33
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lcuki would be happy with x8614:33
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murrayc_sikor_sxe: about the "proven track record". Just ask, please.14:34
lcukgimmal, how comfortable are you with the operating of an armel processor?14:34
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gimmallcuk: heh, doing m' homework for me, hehe; fwiw, I'm a little familiar with those low-level parts of SBCl -- it's all up in ASM stuff, some ASM calls being ultimately represented as Common Lisp calls, per the given machine for a build14:35
lcukit might be best to ask on the SBCL mailing list14:35
gimmaljust a little familar; I've seen 'em, haven't had to dig into 'em14:35
gimmallcuk: I'm pretty clueless when it comes to CPU-architecture-specific qualities, but I'm willing to take the time to learn, heh14:36
lcukthe base porting sounds a lot more indepth and would require intimate knowledge of both sides of the equation14:36
|tbb|hi all14:36
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|tbb|anyone knows how to send a message to maemo desktop via dbus14:36
|tbb|btw dbus-send from script14:36
keloare there any binary plugins for gstreamer available? I need mp3 and divx support in scratchbox14:37
lcukgimmal, ask the same question on the sbcl mailing list, because it might be enough for one of the guys there to say "hey, ive got an armel device/nokia nxx0 - ill give it a go"14:37
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gimmallcuk: yeah, asking those guys about arm support could be a good idea; could be long-shot that anyone there would have a Nokia device, but if I can generalize it enough, maybe someone will respond not unfavorably14:39
lcukyer, if you specify its ARMEL code (Ti opac 2420 CPU) thats wanted someone might ping who would have just ignored a specific nokia request14:40
* lcuk takes off his 10 gallon hat14:41
gimmalARMEL, ok14:42
gimmalTI too -- might stir some folks up, there. TI used to be pretty heavily involved about Common Lisp, used to make at least one line of Lisp Machines14:43
lcukgood luck with it :)14:43
gimmallcuk: thank you for this advice. May I inquire, furthermore, as for where a person could learn more about the type of processor/architecture in the N810 and the like? hey, nevermind ; thanks much14:44
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CrashandDieHey guys14:45
CrashandDieWhen doing a apt-get update, I get a whole bunch of "The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY "14:46
kelohow can i get mp3 and divx support in chinnook?14:46
CrashandDiein other words, I don't have the pgp signatures of the servers I'm querying, anyone know where I can get those signatures ? I know how to import them, I just don't know where to find them14:47
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CrashandDieAnd I was thinking of something else... Is it possible to use the GPS receiver in the n810 on a laptop ?14:49
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lcukCrashandDie, i've heard a couple of people ask the same question, but my google foo is off14:51
lcuki think the answer was something along the lines of "with a simple deamon running on 810 it should be possible"...14:52
lcukbut i cant remember anyone saying "yes heres how to do it"14:52
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CrashandDieI'll have to work on that14:53
CrashandDiethanks lcuk14:53
CrashandDielcuk, you wouldn't have a pointer about the gpg signatures ?14:53
lcuki dunno, ive never had it or seen anyone with problem14:53
lcuksee what the great google comes up with14:54
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lcukCrashandDie, found one of the irc logs about the gps14:56
lcuksearch for bluetooth and they have a quicky discussion14:57
CrashandDiecheers !14:57
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oilCrashandDie: could you check if you can connect to the gpsd on n810 with your laptop?15:18
CrashandDieoil, sure, lemme reboot to ubuntu, back in a sec15:19
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oilCrashandDie: let us know how it works15:19
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crashanddieoil: back15:21
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targaryenThis "Hello World" app keeps opening when I load maemo in xephyr, it's getting annoying15:37
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oilcrashanddie: did the connection to n810 gpsd work?15:54
crashanddieoil: hang on, I'm having bluetooth issues, working on it atm15:54
oilcrashanddie: ok. not in hurry :)15:56
atlas95openvpn gui is on the maemo roadmap or no?15:58
lcukmrs roberts could hack gps to laptop with her eyes closed16:00
johnxahaha...I knew that name sounded familiar16:01
|tbb|is it possible to use this .Introspectable.Introspect with dbus-signals16:01
lcukmorning john, any further with screendefect16:02
johnxnah, took off the faceplate cleaned around the edges16:05
johnx...of the screen. I was really hopeful but it didn't help16:05
johnxI'll email nokia tomorrow. today was busy and now I'm in a mood to hack on debian stuff16:05
lcukdang, soudns like the capacitance plate in the touch layers are busted.  if nokia arent helpful might be an idea to get on ebay see if any replacements are avail16:07
lcuki am still trying to get ide together - ive decided i hate eclipse enough to want something else - something a bit more specific16:08
johnxI've heard about anjuta16:09
johnxmight be worth a shot16:09
johnxit's free after all16:09
* johnx doesn't take on any programming project too big to be done in vi16:09
lcuki started loooking last night at that, there is an alpha addin for maemo comp, and the ide is more geared speecifically to c/c++16:10
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lcuki want a simple editor but im a mouse user16:10
johnxgvim with syntax hilighting?16:11
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lcukdunno, its all new to me, i though most of those were ssh terminal progs16:11
lcukim not from linux and am used to a full ide for the env im developing for, hell ive never really used make before...16:12
johnxwell they both were terminal only historically, but vi got a gtk frontend (gvim) and emacs got an X11 version16:13
fugitivolcuk: text editor in gnome has syntax color16:13
lcukgood to know,  ill take a look if anjuta doesnt give me a safe comfortable base16:13
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fugitivoi use gedit because it's light and simple, it has color syntax and tabs for multiple files16:14
fugitivoall I need for coding16:14
lcuksyntax isnt a problem, grew up without it so its nice but not reqd.  its the complexities of settingg up compiler chain and includes and libraries etgc16:15
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fugitivoah, i use command line for that :)16:15
johnxlcuk, together we'd make a pretty mean linux programmer16:15
lcukdo you normally have to manually setup make files for projects16:16
lcukor (as i expect) does the ide/project manager do that for you16:17
johnxI started Linux in 1998 on RedHat 5.1 . I got mad at having outdated software so I ended up compiling most of my OS from source one package at a time16:17
johnxa full blown IDE would handle that16:17
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johnxgedit or gvim are just editors with syntax hilighting16:17
fugitivojohnx: oh yeah, i remember those ages... full of remote exploits and you had to take care of yourself16:18
lcukyer, eclipse has loads of extensions in the vmware box, but eclipse has so many menus and branches and options i keep getting lost16:18
johnxfugitivo, yeah, and compiling XFree 3.x on a K6-266 took a night and a day ... before failing16:19
lcukits like visual studio 2005 on super speed16:19
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johnxheh, speed as in the drug or speed as in it's faster?16:20
fugitivojohnx: well, i was using a P2 400 in that year, so I didn't try to compile X :)16:20
lcukjohn, first time i ever wrote a program it came in a book for zx spectrum.  me and mum (great hacker...) spent about 3 weeks typing it in and then another couple of weeks trying to get it running16:21
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fugitivolcuk: whow, same here! but it was a spectrum sinclair16:21
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johnxheh...I didn't really have a computer I could hack on and mess around with until 199816:21
fugitivolcuk: i copied the code of a game that came in a magazine and didn't have tape to save it16:21
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lcukwe couldnt switch off and gave up in the end, but my mum got a job with computers after that and i was bitten by the bug16:22
lcukjohn i got first pc in 98 and up until recently resented it for being crap compared to amiga16:24
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fugitivolcuk: i find complete IDEs hard to work with16:24
fugitivotoo much stuff16:24
johnxheh...I took my life savings (money from birthdays and christmas presents ) in 1998 and bought a P166MMx, used windows for 6 months, got fed up and switched to Linux and never looked back16:25
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lcuki havent had a problem, but the simpler  are better.  give me project management, include following, context help and a build button i am ok16:26
lcuk166 wow fast... ;)16:27
lcukpygtkeditor for maemo is almost there for this device.  its practically perfect ide.16:28
lcukbut its just wrong language16:28
johnxwell, an IDE for python includes less stuff, since it's an interpreted language...16:29
lcukcaqn i get gcc and sdk for actual onboard compiling?16:29
johnxgcc, yes. all the headers you need ... possible but there will be versioning/dependency issues I think16:29
lcukits not just that john, pygtked reminds me of ide i used for year on amiga16:29
* Cymor is back (gone 33:58:19)16:30
lcukthumb typing is a pita16:30
johnxyes, especially without hardware keys16:30
johnxlcuk, maybe try freshmeat.net16:31
johnxthey have things categorized rather nicely16:31
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fugitivosince google I don't use freshmeat anymore16:32
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johnxfugitivo, I still use it16:32
johnxyou can't get google to reverse-sort by last update and only display things that don't use X1116:33
lcukhmmm usb hub key not respondding16:33
fugitivoI used it a LOT when package manager was not an usual app in a distro16:33
lcukok i can now type properly16:34
johnxlcuk, C or C++?16:34
lcuk810 -> usb hub -> keyboard wasnt working16:34
lcuki can code in either16:34
lcukno preference, if one works i will use it16:34
lcukobject oriented code is how you write it, not which language you use16:35
johnxlcuk, how about this:
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lcukthat looks great, i will have a proper look when i rescue my desktop back from youngest (he will cry if i turn off cbeebies right now...)16:43
johnxsounds good16:43
lcuki need a shared clipboard/mini blog system so i can copy and paste stuff between systems easily - a shared task/memo system would be nice16:43
johnxlcuk, you and me both16:44
johnxI've found a couple sites, like google notes16:44
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johnxbut they're never simple/fast enough for my taste16:45
lcukwell since its straight foreward code - i did a quick hackjob for python remote which connects and talks to my windows box it wouldnt be too difficult16:45
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lcuki have a windows based task system used by a few of our customers at work and they love the simplicity (its easier to handle than email...)16:46
johnxa little tray applet that could send a short text string from N800 to Linux desktop would be awesome16:46
lcuki might just get a simple system set up later - it would be a good basic program to write as a first app16:46
lcukto *any* desktop16:46
lcukpython client server and it doesnt matter16:47
johnxI should look to see if it hasn't already been done16:47
lcukit probably has, but its annoying to find something on one machine which is intended for the other16:47
johnxI need to learn more about "hildonization" since I doubt I'll have the patience to code up any of the apps on my "must have" list from scratch16:47
lcukpython is great for that, just get it mostly right on linux, then adjust The minor parts which need specifics16:48
lcuki only want this c compilation so i can build python native modules (maily speed only) for the few parts which i know can work faster and need to actually work faster16:49
fugitivoI don't like "scripting" languages for GUI programming16:49
johnxyeah...the problem is what I keep looking at hildonizing is epiphany-webkit which is C/GTK16:49
johnxlcuk, I really do like python though16:49
lcuki started to write my drawing program - did it in python and it works, but doing a circle with stylus looks like a 50p piece (7 sided polygon) and doesnt look circular16:50
lcuki like it, and it works as a really nice glue but just some parts need speed ..16:50
lcukthe webkit is essentially a full browser in a box isnt it16:51
johnxit's just the HTML rendering part if I understand correctly16:52
lcukive always thought of it like the internet explorer activex box which loads of windows programs use16:52
johnxI think the IE activex is actually closer to a full browser than webkit, though I could be wrong16:53
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lcuka browser is pretty much just a rendering window.  for it to understand html it has to process the entire thing, then theres just a couple of things for history and clicking next link16:54
johnxthe networking part, and user interactivity part seem not so trivial...16:55
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lcukif its already based in gtk then it should work, net connect comes from sockets so thats there as well i assume16:57
lcukdoes it work without hildonizing? (just looks crap) or does it not even build16:58
johnxlcuk, it works in debian16:58
johnxI can't be bothered to try and make complicated debian packages build for ITOS these days16:58
johnxit works *great* in debian, too16:59
lcukhave you had a look if anyone else is trying to get it in16:59
johnxI'll look again16:59
johnxbefore I do any work16:59
johnxright now I've been talking to some guys who are way ahead of me in the debian-on-n800 project17:00
lcukheh, i just noticed i filled my notification icons area - hildon adds a little nobble to list the rest.  i was idly wondering how it would handle having too many17:00
johnxso a lot of stuff that didn't work should work now, like buttons :)17:00
lcukcool, follow them and see if you can push them towards webkit17:01
lcukoh crap, you said it does17:01
johnxwell no one's hildonized it17:02
lcukdo, debian on 800 - this is full actual desktop with a mouse cursor and all available deb apps running on it (once compiled) not just the specific maemo apps17:02
lcukso ^17:02
johnxright, but hildonizing makes things a lot nicer to use with a touch screen17:03
lcukyer, things you take for granted in desktop like box/font sizes multi windows etc need tweaks17:04
johnxyeah, definitely.17:04
johnxask any long time zaurus user :)17:04
* lcuk tries to teach junior devs at work about using screen effecively17:04
johnxif they don't get it, then stop teaching and start beating it into them17:05
johnx10 years from now interfaces from today will look as hideously broken and stupid as twm17:05
johnxor at least I hope17:05
lcukive got one guy who insists on making every single window as small and compact as possible.  hes deving for a natural minimum of 1024*768 (customer specified) but he insists on making tiny windows and has no idea about focus and priority - he gives the wrong things emphasis17:06
johnxthere's a thin line there17:07
lcuki want a dynamic interface which knows about the important aspects and shows you what you need in the avilable space, but as the space expands you can show extra less useful details17:07
johnxyou don't help anything by making it too small, but the typical windows mentality of "my window will be maximized all the time. nothing less than 1024x768 will do!" makes me want to kill17:08
lcukits like a tiny column with my name would show my initials, but as it expands its shows a. lastname.   then even wider shows full name with title17:08
fugitivolcuk: ala gmail17:09
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johnxlcuk, that would be nice17:09
lcukit takes a lot of code at the moment, but i have a working test model for a few things17:10
lcuki just let the interface decide whichversion of a control to use, and if i supply just a single one thats all its got to work with, but if i supply variants it shows the biggest one it can fit17:10
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lcuki dunno how i could fit it into python thou, i hadnt even considered it until now and think whatever i did would be a hackjob17:12
lcuksurprisingly, it works very nice and quickly in vb17:12
johnxno comment17:13
lcukdidnt think there would be :P17:13
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lcukthe stigmaa is there about the language but its got all the major parts required for dev, its fast enough and certainly expandable. but i know its time is gone17:14
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lcuki think its time for dinner anywa17:15
lcuknice chattin with you again john, catch you later17:15
johnxyou too17:15
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fysais that the preferred sdk?17:45
fugitivowhat the hell17:45
johnxthat's the first part at least17:46
johnxthat's of course only if you need the vmware image17:46
fysajust wanted to make sure there wasn't something 'better' floating around17:46
johnxfysa, I'm not that best person to ask then17:47
fysaI have an ubuntu box here already..17:47
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johnxI have an i386 ubuntu box so I just install natively17:47
fysayou just followed the sb2/native instructions?17:47
johnxdidn't do sb217:47
johnxmaybe "native" was the wrong word17:47
johnxI used the official nokia instructions17:48
fysachmod +x maemo-scratchbox-install_4.0.sh17:48
fysasudo ./ -d17:48
johnxI have no urge to be cutting edge17:48
fysalooks good.17:48
fysathink I will try that..17:48
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oilmy maemo@car looks quite ok now. but.. ukmp crashed, maemo mapper crashed and I had to reboot the n800 couple of time during couple of hours trip.17:53
oilis there a way to tell maemo mapper that it would look for the bt gps silently every 3 minutes or so?17:54
oilnow it tries to find the bt device for a while. then it wil display that the device is not available 'retry' or 'cancel'. I wish it to go quiently and just keep on looking.17:55
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GeneralAntillesoil, do you have a GPS device?17:57
oilwhat I have in mind is that when the device looses the wlan connection to home => it's on the road -> maemo mapper would startup and also ukmp would start.17:57
oilwhen the device comes back home and finds the wlan => maemo mapper and ukmp would close automatically. after this the device would get new mp3 and mp4 files from the home server17:58
oilGeneralAntilles: yes, bluetooth.17:58
oilGeneralAntilles: but I want it to be as much automatic as possible.17:59
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zoranmapper should show you where your home is when you are in it?18:00
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oilzoran: the device should see the home wlan AP and stop the maemo mapper application18:01
zoranI do understand what you want18:01
zorandaemon should take home wifi first18:01
oilzoran: but also it would be a great possibility to start an application if the mapper finds that tehre is an POI around. is that possible?18:01
zoranthe people use phone that way18:02
zoranvoip over home wifi and then 3g, when going to work18:02
GeneralAntillesoil, it would have to be something implemented in maemo mapper.18:03
johnxoil, if it's not possible you should talk to gnuite about maybe sending a dbus event on proximity to a POI18:03
johnxthat would be very cool18:03
zoranor simple daemon to handle any app, incliding mapper18:03
oilGeneralAntilles: the poi thing yes.18:03
johnxhmm...actually if you could read maemomapper's POI.db you wouldn't need it18:04
zoranoil, I recall articl in linux journal few months ago, about smart home etc18:04
zoranmusic in all rooms, phone calls everywhere...18:04
zoranserver with asterisk and music file server and cannot remember further18:05
oilzoran: with asterisk there might be problems with codec's. the sound is never very good.18:06
zorannot talking about 770/80018:06
zoranshould be the same or simolar18:06
oiljohnx: mappers poi.db is quite simple when it's extracted with sqlplus3.18:07
fysahmm.  time to: sudo sed -e 's/\sfeisty/ gutsy/g' -i /etc/apt/sources.list18:07
johnxI thought I rememberd something like that18:07
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oiljohnx: I could not find the db converison for os2008 (even tought the maemo mapper is using it) so I did it on ubuntu.18:08
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johnxone of these days I'll get a GPS and start hacking on that18:09
oiljohnx: you should. there is great possibilities on it.18:09
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|tbb|oli im working on something like  you descriped before18:10
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oilzoran: well yes. with sip, it's possible to use different codecs. ilbc is pretty good and efficient, but maybe not for music.18:10
oil|tbb|: what kind of thing?18:11
|tbb|but still in kids shoes18:11
|tbb|do events on special places18:11
oilsounds interesting. how do you define special places? wlan, gps?18:12
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|tbb|with gps18:13
lcukdbus event: you have entered the united kingdom, please place your hands on the wall and spread your legs18:13
oilplease let us know about that.18:14
|tbb|something like staying at a gasoline station with wlan access download emails or something about that18:14
|tbb|i will.18:14
lcukthe map already shows known wifihotspots doesnt it18:15
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lcukor do you want it actually running a command at a location18:15
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GeneralAntillesLinux has anything similar to AppleScript?18:16
lcukues python :p18:16
oilbut what if the device could check the open hotspots in advance where it can do the login?18:17
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lcukbut doesnt your net do that already - if i am out of range of work net its not offered18:17
zoranshould connect to your phone18:18
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crashanddieoil, I did it :)18:19
dragornGeneralAntilles: Perl, python, ruby, lua.  All the major window managers ought to have some language bound, though you don't usually need to do the same sort of automation-by-events that applescript does.  At least, I never do. :P18:19
lcukwell i use home and barring bugs it offers whichever it can see18:19
crashanddieoil, not through bluetooth, but that shouldn't take long18:19
oilcrashanddie: you managed to connect to the n810 gpsd from your pc?18:19
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oilcrashanddie: great! can you share the howto.18:20
crashanddieyeah sure18:20
crashanddieoil, you have to install SSH on the n810, and be able to get root on it, as root, type /etc/init.d/gpsdriver start18:21
crashanddieoil, then, do a netstat -l | grep gps, this will give you the name of the unix socket where the control socket is at18:23
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crashanddieoil, after that, just type gpsd /var/lib/gps/gps_driver_ctrl18:23
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crashanddieit will fork to background by itself, now, on your computer, initiate an ssh connection to your n810, with a tunnel to the default gpsd port, 294718:24
crashanddieoil, for me, this is: sudo ssh root@mercurio -L 2947:localhost:294718:24
crashanddiethen, from your computer, a simple telnet localhost 2947 allows you to connect to it, type "dp" in the telnet session to get the gps info18:25
crashanddieThere are a few tutorials out there on how to do tcp/ip over bluetooth, so I'll be looking into that, and if I get something nice, I'll create a big and nice tutorial on everything18:26
crashanddieI'll probably post it in the forums or something18:27
johnxrant: jeez, WTH is wrong with bzr that it can't checkout a whole repo at once. I actually had to scrape a web page with sh to feed it a list of branches. so retro...18:27
|tbb|crashanddie:  on my device gpsdriver is continuesly running, wonder why u have to start it18:28
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johnxcrashanddie, that's awesome18:28
oilcrashanddie: that's good. thanks. you should write it out.18:28
crashanddie|tbb|, oh, I dunno, I just found gpsdriver, and told it to start, I didn't check if it was already running18:28
oilcrashanddie: is there a way to do this without the ssh tunnel? just connect to the port of the remote device?18:29
zoranevery wifi user could connect to it if open18:30
|tbb|r u talking about n810 device?18:30
crashanddie|tbb|, yeah18:30
* johnx goes afk, to bed specifically18:31
crashanddieoil, like zoran said, I'm not sure it's a really good idea to allow anyone on the network to access the gpsd info18:31
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zorancrashanddie, it could start at that service and end who knows where18:32
oilcrashanddie: I actually like the idea. then it would be possible for several devices to access it.18:32
crashanddieoil, it would also allow anyone who has access to the network to know your current location18:33
crashanddieoil, though, I guess that by fiddling with the gpsd options, you should be able to open up the port to not only localhost access18:33
zoranoil, don't forget that device is pretty sudo, so you don't know what could be used for break in18:33
oilcrashanddie: true, but your location would be available for the people you are with.18:33
crashanddieoil, I know, I'm just being over-protective here18:34
johnxmultiple ssh tunnels are fine18:34
johnxand they can be automated with public key logins18:34
zoranand firewall with mac filtering18:34
crashanddiejohnx, yeah we weren't discussing that, but rather to open up the gpsd port to anyone on the network18:35
johnxmac filtering *does nothing*18:35
oilI'm thinking in the case that we would like to share the information between the people. for example in the car.18:35
crashanddiemac filtering isn't worth anything if anyone serious comes around18:35
johnxask me about how booting my N800 into debian caused it to forget it's MAC address18:35
johnxifconfig hw ether 00:de:ad:be:ef:0018:35
GeneralAntillesGo to bed. :P18:35
johnxyeah, I should18:36
zoranjohnx, no so many people could find that in a million years  :)18:36
crashanddiewell, allow me to play around with gpsdrive on my laptop for a bit, and then I'll post a small tutorial on the forums or something18:36
johnxobviously there isn't room on this channel for both of us :P18:36
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* johnx really goes to sleep this time18:36
zoranand not so many folks use linux anyway18:36
johnx'night all18:36
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crashanddiejohnx, cheers18:37
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oiljohnx: good night.18:39
oilcrashanddie: how about sharing the gps information between people around? so that it would be one service of the network?18:40
zoranserver with ajax?18:41
crashanddieoil, yeah, I guess that looking at it that way would be acceptable18:41
|tbb|anyone knows something about the NJoy rgb format which is used for led in n81018:41
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|tbb|is it possible to create different colors like red green or blue18:42
GeneralAntilles /etc/mce/mce.ini |tbb|.18:44
|tbb|i know and what the pattern things tell me i dont understand the format18:44
GeneralAntillesIt should have a description at the top.18:45
oilcrashanddie: thinking how to get it as simple as possible for the people who don't have the tech-skills.18:45
|t_s_o|hmm, i cant figure out why one of my emails crash modest, while another does not. both are pop, so they should in theory behave the same...18:45
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oilcrashanddie: all the people want to do at the end is push the button and everything works. that's why apple ,skype and google has been so successfull :)18:48
crashanddieoil, I know :) lemme work on it18:49
|tbb|GeneralAntilles: i would like to know how to change the color like (rgb, 215,25,218) whats that in njoy format is there a table or something18:50
oilcrashanddie: I like your style :) I need to get to bed at some point, but please drop me an email at oil@iki.fi18:50
crashanddieoil, will do18:50
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K-Foxn800 have the push mail?18:59
jga23is it safe to do an apt-get upgrade?  there are a bunch of libraries that show up to be updated but in the App Manager, nothing shows up19:01
zoranbe aware of dep hell :)19:03
GeneralAntillesjga23, I wouldn't recommend it.19:03
zoransome libs depend on only one version...19:03
|tbb|GeneralAntilles: or is it just not possible to change the color to other then red blue green19:05
GeneralAntillesI don't have an N810, |tbb|.19:05
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jga23I got transmission (torrent downloader) working on my n810, but now when I try to do anything (move, delete) on my memory card it says error read-only filesystem19:33
jga23anybody gotten this error before?19:33
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K-Foxwow torrent is a good application19:34
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crashanddieanyone know the guy who writes the maemo mapper software ? And where I could contact him ?19:37
dragornjga23: Check that it's not trying to do permissions on a vfat card?19:37
dragorncrashanddie: His email's in the source if I recall, I've emailed him a few times19:37
doc|homecrashanddie: someone said it's contracted out by nokia19:37
crashanddienot that he's going to be of any help19:37
dragorncrashanddie: what are you trying to do19:37
crashanddieI'm trying to get the gps receiver to work on another computer than the n81019:38
crashanddieit works (c), but there are a few things I'd have to work on19:38
crashanddiebtw, greetings doc|home19:38
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, what are they smoking?19:38
dragornI highly doubt he's contracted by nokia ;P19:39
jga23dragorn: how do I check that?19:39
dragornjga23: By going through the source19:39
dragornjga23: or maybe strace19:39
doc|homehey crashanddie19:39
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: the fat nokia contract :)19:39
jga23dragorn: is there any way to fix the issue?19:39
jga23I don't care about the app19:39
jga23just my memory card19:39
GeneralAntillesdoc|home, you're thinking of "Map"19:39
doc|homeGeneralAntilles: used to roll up some odd plants most likely19:39
GeneralAntillesNot Maemo Mapper.19:39
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, gnuite.19:40
doc|homethat is possible19:40
GeneralAntillesNo, it's the truth. :P19:40
doc|homeok then :)19:40
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, gnuite yourself !19:40
crashanddieAnd what the hell is that supposed to mean ?19:40
dragornjga23: if that's the issue?  Edit the source to not do that.  I'm just guessing that it might be throwing crap errors, lots of *nix things try to do permissions and then blow up strangely when the vfat layer returns an error19:40
dragorncrashanddie: Either find where it launches gpsd and let it bind to all interfaces19:40
dragorncrashanddie: or write a simple reflector that listens on the public port and copies data into the loopback port19:41
crashanddiedragorn, yeah that works, don't worry19:41
jga23dragorn: I just want to fix the memory card, is there any way to change it from read-only mode?19:41
dragornthe latter is slightly more annoying but slightly less invasive19:41
crashanddiedragorn, it's just, I'm having trouble launching gpsd correctly, I don't understand what keeps it running...19:42
crashanddiedragorn, when I launch, say, Map, gpsd gets launched, and it works great, I piped the output to whatever I need, and it just works19:42
dragornjga23: ...  not what I was saying at all.  I'm offering the suggestion that it isn't, in fact, in ro mode.  If it IS, then you either a) mounted it funny b) have the ro hardware switch set, or c) massive corruption causing the block layer to go "holy shit" and lock the device to read only to prevent further thrashing.  I don't know if the vfat layer does that or only the extX layer.19:42
dragorncrashanddie: oh.  You need to talk to the navkit libs.  hang on.19:43
dragorncrashanddie: I'm just about to deal with that too.19:43
crashanddieon the other hand, when I try to launch it by hand (so you don't need to have Map running and consuming CPU/RAM), gpsd just "stops" working after a while, before I even had the time for a fix19:43
dragorncrashanddie: google for 'gps-saver' and 'gps-starter', I don't have the original URLs handy, they're little standalone apps someone wrote as a demo19:43
crashanddielet me rephrase that, "before the gps receiver manages to acquire a fix"19:44
crashanddiedragorn, ok, thanks19:44
dragorncrashanddie: If I recall the navkit API is similar to IAP where it does some sort of reference counting, I think if you use it to open the device and keep a socket open to gpsd, it ought to keep things active.19:44
dragorncrashanddie: like I said, just getting started on it here, it's probably going to piss me off royally.  I'm already reduced to kicking wlancond in the face and messing with power management for the 802.11 stuff, and it's still not 100% reliable that the interface won't go wandering into the woods somewhere instead.19:45
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dragornFlight mode makes it slightly more reliable, only then it breaks bt/gps19:46
dragorn(nice bit of legacy crap there that the 810 needs bt active to do gps...)19:46
crashanddieisn't that because it's wired (no pun intended) that way ? That it *is* a bluetooth gps receiver ?19:47
dragornYou think it's really wired over BT internally?19:47
dragornI assumed they just ran the serial lines19:47
dragornThe rest of the BT subsystem doesn't activate (at least, not in a way displayed to the user).  I think it's just that the navkit api doesn't really know it could use that directly.19:48
keesjare the datasheets flowing on the internet?19:48
crashanddienot really19:48
crashanddieit's more like shooting in the dark19:48
crashanddiedragorn, I don't know, didn't look into it that much tbh19:49
lcuk_2shooting in the dark is good as long as you have a night vision sight19:49
keesjschematics ... sorry , it would be easy to see19:49
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keesjlcuk_2: or like with the pragmatic programmers if you have lighting bullets19:50
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crashanddiewow, my interface just hung on the n81019:50
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crashanddiedragorn, I'll probably code the a gpsd-proxy tonight, in correlation with gps-starter19:51
lcuk_2you could use acoustic sounding and play a game of Battle Ships - A1:Bang........ A3:Bang.........   A3:Bang...ARGHHHHHHH19:51
dragornspeaking of acoustic sounding the olpc has a sonic rangefinder.  Wonder if the 8x0 speaker is good enough. :)19:52
dragorn(and if the timers are high res enough)19:52
crashanddieno built in mic19:52
lcuk_2mic is on the headset19:52
crashanddiewell yeah, but I have the headset like 3% of the time19:53
GeneralAntillesWhat doesn't have a built-in mic?19:53
melmothgrumble, i was able to record my voice without headset19:53
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, the n810 ?19:53
dragornUh, they both have bultin mics as far as I know :P19:53
crashanddieoh really ?19:53
lcuk_2thought it was only headset?19:54
dragornLook between the buttons on your rocker switch19:54
crashanddieyeah, me too19:54
crashanddiethat's the mic ?19:54
crashanddieOH AWESOME19:54
keesjno you can skype or gizmo with no headset19:54
lcuk_2where on 810? what rocker19:54
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* lcuk_2 looks for a hole19:56
dragornYes, that's the mic.  I just checked. :P19:57
xmentbtw what is metalayer-crawler good for?19:57
crashanddielcuk_2, the small separator between the two buttons... back and windows19:57
xmentit seriously lags my n80019:57
GeneralAntillesxment, it scans for media.19:57
lcuk_2:O thought that was just asthetic19:57
GeneralAntillesSometimes it gets stuck on unfortunately placed symlinks.19:57
xmentGeneralAntilles: there are no symlinks on vfat; i just put there about 20 wma files19:58
lcuk_2it would be upside down for me to use like a phone though, power cable would be up in the ait19:58
GeneralAntillesDon't side-talk it.19:58
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GeneralAntillesIt's a speaker-phone mic.19:58
lcuk_2since i didnt know it had a mic i never even considered it, and anyway im not gonna use it like a taco19:58
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crashanddielcuk, agreed19:59
lcuk_2it wouldnt work well anyway since the speakers arent setup for personal hearing19:59
lcuk_2well at least i know there is some bonux easter egg technology in 810 - at least as far as i am concerned its new20:02
dragornhiding in plain sight :P20:02
dragornWhat *is* missing as far as I know is the fm tuner20:02
lcuk_2yer, first thing i downloaded was the radio software from nokia and was really upset it wasnt there - i had heard it was on the 80020:03
crashanddiedragorn, found out how to use gps-starter ?20:04
crashanddiedragorn, there's like NO DOCS for it :D20:04
lcuk_2GeneralAntilles, as far as my reconnection thing goes, i have setup a packet mon on this box here and will make sure i log every night - since i cannot discover exactly which programs might be doing it i can at least capture what it is used for20:05
* lcuk_2 hopes his 810 isnt a spam bot in its after hours internet service20:05
dragorncrashanddie: worked when I messed with it a month ago, i'm debating if I feel like finding lunch or if I feel like being pissed off at code before I look at it again.20:06
crashanddiedragorn, go eat20:07
crashanddiedragorn, I have things to work on anyhow, with or without gps-starter, I'll find the info eventually20:07
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b0unc3guys... I'm trying to install wget from terminal... through apt.. but I get this error : E: Some packages could not be authenticated20:16
b0unc3someone know how to fix that ?20:16
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n0ob_has anyone installed the maemo sdk?20:22
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korpiosargh ... on FedEx vehicle for delivery ... but we want to go museum-hopping today ... argh!  ^_^20:23
n0ob_korpios: it will arrive soon ;-)20:24
* korpios sighs ^_^20:24
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korpiosI don't want to risk having the delivery left outside in the freezing cold (Chicago, and we've been seeing quite a bit below-freezing temps for a week now)20:26
* korpios calls FedEx and asks for an estimate20:26
n0ob_i will order my n810 as soon as i got some sdk running20:26
pupnik_actually this whole channel was waiting for someone to be the first to install the sdk20:28
n0ob_so no one ever did this?20:28
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n0ob_pupnik_: i just wanted to ask how this works20:29
pupnik_ok well the maemo sdk is an environment that contains the tools and libraries needed to build ITOS apps20:30
* |tbb| is playing with more color led from n810, really funny, combinating diffrent modes20:31
|tbb|violette is quite nice20:31
pupnik_n0ob_: you can install the sdk onto a linux box or run a vmware image of the sdk on a windows box20:31
pupnik_or on an box with a vmware player20:32
n0ob_mmh im using only linux as os (this makes it interesting to me)20:32
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pupnik_  there's the vmware image20:32
n0ob_cool i think i will download this20:33
xmentos2008 is definitely not a linux, I feel like I'm in windows vista20:34
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n0ob_xment: why this?20:34
pupnik_uname -a20:34
pupnik_Linux Nokia-N810-50-2 2.6.21-omap1 #2 Fri Dec 7 11:17:13 EET 2007 armv6l unknown20:34
pupnik_is linux20:34
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xmentn0ob_: too many segfaults, too laggy and bunch of features nobody asked for and there's no way to turn them off20:35
n0ob_uh sound bad?20:36
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pupnik_maybe xment is shorthand for excrement?20:36
n0ob_xment: also on the preinstalled apps?20:37
xmentsorry, I've overreacted a bit20:37
xmentn0ob_: yes, for example the default media player (os2008) and the rss reader20:38
n0ob_mmh sounds really bad20:38
n0ob_anyone can confirm this?20:39
pupnik_Don't know.. I don't use the default media player on any os :)20:39
melmothi dont use the default media plauer, nor the rss reader :)20:39
xmentnothing against the n800 hardware or kernel (both well tuned)20:39
melmothmain use is a portable ssh great.20:40
xmentI upgraded from os2007 because of the unstable wifi driver20:40
pupnik_For a media player i can recommend mplayer.  Works great here.20:40
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xmentpupnik_: yep, but I haven't found (yet) a gmplayer or any gui frontend20:41
pupnik_xment: the standard mplayer has a frontend. The launcher is under 'extras'.20:41
b0unc3xment: try canola20:41
xmentpupnik_: doesn't work for audio files20:41
xmentb0unc3: thank's20:42
infobotxment meant: b0unc3: thanks20:42
pupnik_Yeah mplayer launcher doesn't pick up audio files20:42
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xmentany suggestions where to get os2007-style xterm?20:43
n0ob_are there buglists out there for the n810?20:44
pupnik_xment: the osso-xterm-advanced?  dunno.  what does it have that you're missing from the os2008 version?20:45
lcuk_2out of ciggy papers20:46
xmentpupnik_: ctrl!20:46
lcuk_2wish i could just "apt-get rizla"20:46
pupnik_ocb! :)20:46
b0unc3lcuk_2: lol20:46
pupnik_xment: at the bottom of my os2008 xterm i have esc, pgup, pgdn, tab and ctrl buttons20:47
b0unc3yeah... me too...20:47
lcuk_2pupnik, that is the keyboard extensions - i havent got em on mine20:47
xmentpupnik_: ok, now try something like Ctrl-a Ctrl-b with on display keyboard20:47
pupnik_i don't know how to get the onscreen keyboard up20:48
|tbb|pupnik: where is the pipe ;)20:48
lcuk_2pup, you have 800 or 810?20:48
lcuk_2tbb, your pipe is next to your slippers20:49
xmentpupnik_: just click on the text area20:49
b0unc3xment: I tried ctrl-c... seems to work...20:49
pupnik_n810.  nope that doesn't bring up keyboard, it hilights on N81020:49
lcuk_2xment, that doesnt work for me either - have 810 and disabled all onscreen..   however, i can get the CTRL box area at the bottom of screen - its meant to compliment and extend the 810 real keyboard20:49
|tbb|add a shortcut, called whatever with value bar20:49
pupnik_btw for the pipe, use this
xmentlcuk_2: ah, I'm using n800 with os200820:50
lcuk_2sorry, not ctrl, its Chr20:50
xmenton n800 it's really annoying, because the on screen keyboard hides everytime I click on Ctrl20:51
pupnik_yeah there might be some rough edges still for os2008 on n80020:51
lcuk_2i think they pushed further with os2008 dev thinking it would be for the 810 only, but then decided to keep it compatible with 800 - obviously there appears to be problems between the implimentations20:52
xmentos2007 for n800 was fine, but I couldn't get a stable wifi connection20:53
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pupnik_xment: do you mean the maemo-hackers osso-xterm?20:55
xmentpupnik_: great, thanks20:56
pupnik_it's compiled for bora... i'll try building it for os200820:57
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pupnik_argh, why doesn't scratchbox have ping20:59
b0unc3pupnik_: apt-get install ping :)21:00
pupnik_ok.  well right now i screwed up my vmware network so i can only see local net21:00
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lcuk_2hey, just noticed on maemo-hackers they have an updated page showing 25 most recent urls21:00
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b0unc3why I can't install anything from terminal... :(21:02
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xmentb0unc3: why so?21:03
xmentb0unc3: broken sources.list?21:04
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b0unc3xment: no... sources.list is ok... I get this error : E: Some packages could not be authenticated21:05
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pupnik_sorry xment i can't build anything right now.  maybe ask the maemo-hackers guys for a chinook build21:05
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xmentpupnik_: that's ok, I'll probably downgrade to OS2007HE anyway21:07
lcuk_2xment, then you are right about it being more like vista.  people are downgrading from that as well ;)21:08
pupnik_that xterm ctl thing is an important bug xment.  if you have a account you should file a bugreport21:09
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|tbb|hmmh, to a file and i dont know how to remove it called --type=method_call21:10
xmentpupnik_: ok21:10
|tbb|anyone know how to?21:11
xment|tbb|: rm -- --type=method_call21:11
b0unc3rm ./--type=method_call21:11
|tbb|thx -- -- worked21:12
BlafaselLearn why that works! ;)21:13
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crashanddiedragorn, back from lunch yet ?21:15
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LoCusFI just gotta love laziness and technology :)21:17
LoCusFjust shutdown my n810 via ssh'ing to my main machine via e51 and then ssh'd to my n810 and then ran shutdown -h now21:17
xmentbtw - n800 makes great external soundcard :)21:18
xment(esd -tcp -public)21:18
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crashanddiexment, that's a pretty sweet thought21:20
lcuk_2straw poll:   missus wants to know if she can use the 810 for mahjong, should i let her?21:20
crashanddielcuk_2, sure21:20
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Blafasellcuk_2: Depends on missus tendency to drop stuff. ;)21:23
xmentor her addiction to mahjong21:23
BlafaselGood point21:23
jott...or your addiction to the n810 ;P21:24
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solmumahalcuk_2: you need more tablets21:24
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lcuk_2lol she won anyway, "there is no way i will let little names on a screen decide, and if you dont give it me ill stab you with this sticky thing"21:24
lcuk_2solmumaha, more?21:25
jottone for each person in your household ;)21:25
Blafasellcuk_2: So she's bigger than you?21:25
jottshe has a sticky thing.. that can be dangerous21:25
lcuk_2no blah, but she is more inventive about the uses for a stylus..21:25
solmumahaone for each and one spare21:26
lcuk_2im seriously thinking 800s all round21:26
lcuk_2we dont need 4 gps's in the car with us21:26
jottyou could probably increase accuracy with some nice tricks that way ;)21:27
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xmenthmm I wonder why the default "File Open21:28
xment" dialog masks underlying filesystem21:28
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xmentin the future it will cause some major inconsistencies like in vista21:28
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xmentpupnik_: already reported21:32
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pupnik810xchat and xterm on os2008 could use a better font21:38
melmoththere's xchat on os2008 ?21:39
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* lcuk_2 saves GeneralAntilles the trouble21:40
lcuk_2as it says, its beta, but it appears to work very well21:40
lcuk_2wow, maemo-hackers site is live updated21:41
* lcuk_2 is impressed21:41
lcuk_2i only had that beta link because it was at the bottom of this list:
lcuk_2now i have re-posted it it is at the top21:42
pupnik810courier iss lame21:44
jottpupnik810: terminus is the way to go ;)21:45
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xmenthmm where's written what version/build of OS* I am currently using? Control Panel -> About product says unknown21:49
lcuk_2if you goto Terminus, what happens to Trantor?
kulvexment: cat /etc/osso_software_version21:50
xmentkulve: thanks21:50
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pupnik810somebody should package some useful fonts like terminus for extras21:59
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jottpupnik810: i've debs for terminus, but have not bothered getting extras write access yet..22:07
jottpupnik810: btw have you done something to make dosbox support Fn key combinations on n810?22:08
pupnik810can you share them pls?22:08
pupnik810i promise to fix that tonight22:08
jottpupnik810: i've not much hosting space atm.. but i can put them online.. sec..22:08
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unique311pupnik810, YAWE
unique311YAWE = yet another working emulator22:09
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LoCusFwtf there is a os2008 port for dosbox?22:09
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pupnik810loos great uniq22:11
unique311LoCusF, maybe you phrased that wrong.22:11
unique311dosbox running on os2008?22:11
unique311working on pixel doubling.22:11
unique311can't get that going yet.22:11
unique311but speed is great on it, sound not too good.22:12
LoCusFunique311: oh cool22:12
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proteousultima underworld with a stylus would be great22:13
unique311LoCusF, i'm not working on dosbox.22:13
pupnik810uw is pretty slow22:13
LoCusFunique311: yeah, knew that22:13
unique311working on turbografx 1622:14
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pupnik810unique311  how is speed?22:14
unique311really good.22:14
pupnik810like fps22:14
unique311one of the screenshots show it22:15
unique31139 on that one.22:15
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unique311the 2 games i tried out were pretty fast.22:15
unique311bomberman and double dragon22:15
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unique31138 fps running bomberman22:17
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jottpupnik810: deb chinook user22:18
jotthope this works ;P22:18
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jottpackage is xfonts-terminus22:18
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* jott needs soem serious hosting22:18
* lcuk_2 needs some hosting22:19
jottpupnik810: have you done anything with the dosbox code yet? (i'm using just a vanilla sid backport now)22:20
pupnik810yes there are fixes22:22
pupnik810should appear in sid someday22:22
unique311pupnik can i take a look at the source code one of your SDL game ports,  that has pixel doubling code in it?22:22
jottpupnik810: what have you fixed? ;)22:23
unique311i followed the game port guide on maemo, and wasn't successful.22:23
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pupnik810align probs22:24
pupnik810jotl just checkout latest dosbox22:25
jottpupnik810: kk22:26
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jott(as in cvs/svn i assume)22:26
pupnik810do you have time to work on it jott?22:27
pupnik810im still trying to find a good benchmark22:28
jottpupnik810: not much but i'll play around a bit and try to get the keys working22:28
pupnik810ok ty22:28
crashanddiedragorn, what are gps-saver and gps-starter supposed to do ?22:29
unique311going to give this doubling another try.22:29
crashanddieand does anyone know if there is a way to speed up the GPS lock times ?22:29
pupnik810dont move device22:30
dragorncrashanddie: look at the guys site, I didn't write them22:30
unique311pupnik810, speed is not going to be lost due to pixel doubling right?22:31
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lcuk_2pixel doubling is entirely on the LCD controller hardware isnt it22:32
lcuk_2with just a flag to say using it or not22:32
pupnik810not exactly22:34
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lcuk_2is there actual work to do at the application end? as in proper data moving/reorganisation?22:35
lcuk_2proper = full graphic bitmaps, vs a bit of init code22:35
pupnik810well see the maemo-dev ml from april-may22:36
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fayeHi, My n800 lives on a mac network. Is there any way to get the n800 using .local names?22:41
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xmentfaye: what does it mean - .local names?22:53
lcddlink local mdns names22:55
fayeWhat lcdd said22:56
fayeAvahi can do lookups but maemo seems to lack libnss-mdns22:56
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fayeIs there a repository for it?22:59
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fayeping: bad address 'mini.local'23:05
faye~ $ ping mini.local23:05
faye~ $ avahi-resolve-address -4 -n mini.local23:05
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kalajust a clarification. even when I enable host-mode on the 770 USB port, I still cannot use USB flash memory and digital cameras directly, without some external power source?23:08
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