IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-01-08

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threethirtyok, ty just wanted to know that im not the first one00:01
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blahdeblahSomehow my N800 has got into a state where it won't accept input from either the pen or the bluetooth keyboard.  Any ideas?00:22
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derfHold down the power key until it reboots.00:22
blahdeblahderf: thanks a lot!  :-(00:23
blahdeblahI responds fine to screen & onboard keys.00:23
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blahdeblahSo i can manually shut down.00:23
blahdeblahBut i don't want to - i want to fix it!  ;-)00:24
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blahdeblahLooks like it's pretty screwed00:28
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blahdeblahNot happy. :-(00:28
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trulsack, finally found the showstopper for os2008 upgrade... maemocjk, no longer able to swap keyboard on-the-fly00:33
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derfHmm, fortunately I never do that.00:34
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blahdeblahtruls: Yeah - it's a pain.  I often sit with they keyboard to the side and pull it out when i want to do some serious text input.00:36
trulsblahdeblah: japanese keyboard?00:36
* truls got confused00:36
blahdeblahSorry - i misinterpreted your message.00:37
trulsi'm not talking about anything related to the hardware keyboard, i'm talking about japanese input support00:37
blahdeblahI realise that now... ;-)00:37
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lcuk_2maemo pads: serious business00:39
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KaKaRoTohi, I have a question00:42
tbbanyone knows where maemo os2008 stores the network connections with their passwords (wlan etc)00:43
KaKaRoToI made a deb package using the chinnok sdk but when trying to install it application manager complains that it's incompatible00:43
KaKaRoTodoes anyone know what might cause it and how to fix this00:43
Luria"Most of the people don’t even hit this bug, because verbose level of 4 is rarely used."00:44
Luriawell, i hit it.00:44
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lcuk_2couldn't you lower your verbosity level and ignore it ;)00:45
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sibbehmm.. need to check if it happens with 2.1rc compiled against lzo200:45
sibbe...oh but can't do it right now00:45
Luriayeah, im going to v3 right now00:45
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lcuk_2workarounds make the world go round :)00:46
Luriathis has been more annoying than it should00:46
Luriadoing ovpn on x-wrt00:46
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sibbe + liblzo2 compiled just fine iirc, but i didn't have time to actually test the packages :)00:47
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lcuk_2hi gnu00:47
sibbelibpam dependency disabled ofcourse00:47
KaKaRoTohi, anyone knows why application manager says "Unable to install. incompatible application package" on my deb file  (chinook built with maemo 4.x sdk) ?00:49
Luriaalso, silly question, but how do i make scripts executable without invoking sh/ash?00:50
Luriaor does ash not do that00:51
Luria(yes they are +x'ed)00:51
CordLuria: head -1 $script?00:51
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Luriak, ta00:52
Cordyou need your interpreter in the first line of the script00:53
Cordsomething like '#! /bin/sh'00:53
Luriai put a shebang line in00:53
Luriastill i get foo:not found00:55
Cordyou call your script with ./$script?00:55
* KaKaRoTo feels noone cares about my problem... :(00:56
CordKaKaRoTo: the problem is hidden in the manager.00:56
CordKaKaRoTo: as i don'T know it yet, i can'T help. maybe running dpkg -i $package.deb shows something more useful?00:57
CordLuria: and you get?00:57
Luriathe script runs00:57
Luriai would just like not to have to be in the same dir00:58
Cordso problem solved?00:58
CordLuria: you want to run it with the /path/to/script? or do you want to run it with '$ script'?00:58
Luriai want it to be callable from path00:59
Luriaso i dont have to be in the same directory00:59
KaKaRoToCord, dpkg -i says nothing more00:59
CordLuria: then you need to move it somehwere in your directories that 'echo $PATH' displays.00:59
KaKaRoToit installs with dpkg -i, but applicatin manager doesn't want to instal lit00:59
Luriacord, ok, ta01:00
KaKaRoToI have chinook and the package was compiled using the chinook rootstrap01:00
rm_youKaKaRoTo: are you in redpill mode?01:00
KaKaRoTorm_you, it installs in red pill mode, but it doesn't in blue pill01:00
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KaKaRoTothat's what I just discovered01:00
Luriai knew it was something silly01:00
rm_yousometimes it won't install packages if they replace any files that are in the official packages01:00
KaKaRoTorm_you, I have it installed, but I need my users to be able to install it without going into red pill mode01:00
CordKaKaRoTo: ok, the deb is fine, then i'm out as i don'T know the things you have trouble with. Nokia doesn'T like Germany.01:01
Luriawho does?01:01
KaKaRoToCord, germany ? I don't get it :p01:02
tbbAnyone knows where maemo os2008 stores the network connections with their passwords (wlan etc)01:02
CordKaKaRoTo: discount codes are not working yet.01:02
Cordtbb: debian stores things somewhere in /etc/net*01:03
KaKaRoTorm_you, and the packages don't overwrite any of the existing files on the system01:03
KaKaRoToCord, ahh ok lol :)01:03
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KaKaRoTobtw, if anyone is interested :
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KaKaRoTothere are nice screenshots in there :D01:05
Luriavery nice... but odd timing01:07
KaKaRoToLuria, why odd timing ?01:07
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Luriabecause they just added msn (and others) to rtcomm01:07
pupnik_Cord: if you have success in buying from with a friend's credit card, let me know please01:08
zetherooI just got my new N800... but I have a few questions01:08
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zetheroofor one does Skype work with Video ?01:08
Cordpupnik_: i'll blog about it :-)01:08
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Cordok, good nite.01:08
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zetherooAlso how do I upgrade to the latest OS and what benifits does it have over the one that is on it already01:08
Luriaits not as nice as an amsn port, but it saves me from running another program (and using more space)01:09
pupnikhi zetheroo welcome to the club.  i recall hearing problems about that.  most user questions are discussed on - use the search feature01:09
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pupnikwb lardman01:09
KaKaRoToLuria, oh I know :p but rtcomm doesn't support webcam or voice clips or file transfers or avatars, etc... :p01:09
Luriaplease understand i'm not knocking your efforts01:09
KaKaRoToand webcam/voice clips/file transfers will never be supported because they use libpurple which doesn't support all that01:09
KaKaRoToLuria, nah, don't worry, I didn't think that :)01:10
Luriai totally get that01:10
KaKaRoToLuria, what knocks down my efforts is that it's a liiiitle bit too slow (but definitely usable) AND uses too much memory01:10
Luriawell, maybe in conjuction with rtcom... IOW, rtcom for presence, and an im to start vv chat01:11
Luriaand amsn to continue01:11
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Luriait's a kludgy, but efficient use case01:12
tbbim searching for the correct syntax for that case    if [ -z $mynumeric or $mynumeric -lt 4 ]; then  shell scripting01:12
tbbthe or part01:12
czrtbb, -o01:13
czrtbb, man [01:13
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zetheroopupnik: ok... and what about the OS upgrade?01:14
KaKaRoToLuria, yeah, that's what I do now :p leaving amsn open for too long then start a new app it will tell you "you need to close an application to open a new one"01:14
KaKaRoToso amsn is opened only when I need to chat01:15
Luriathe joys of memleaks01:15
KaKaRoToanother amsn developer is waiting for his discount code and I'm sure he'll port it correctly (less eye candy to reduce memory and look out for that memleak)01:16
KaKaRoToLuria, in theory we have zero memleaks.. but I'm starting to doubt it... maybe something new was added recently that causes this01:16
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KaKaRoToat startup it uses 42MB of memory.. that's the joys of tcl/tk :p01:16
Luriamaybe some odd artifact of the porting?01:16
KaKaRoTotcl/tk was 'hildonized' and maybe that patch is the one adding a memleak01:16
KaKaRoTooh well, we'll see :)01:17
Luriathats kinda what i meant01:17
KaKaRoToit's just great to see maemo being able to handle something like that :)01:17
Luriacomplex systems, yadda yadda01:17
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Luriai wish there were better collab tools around01:17
KaKaRoTonow I'm trying to port gnash and cabextract... this way we can have winks support on maemo too :d01:18
Luriai actually miss netmeeting01:18
Luriaexcept for its stability01:18
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zetheroohow do I upgrade my N800 to the latest OS?01:19
KaKaRoToLuria, lol01:20
Luriazetheroo, 1)what platform is your desktop, 2)what os version is on your nokia01:20
Luriawhatever, V+V and mutliplayer paint01:20
KaKaRoToLuria, in theory farsight has a netmeeting plugin but it's outdated and not compiled anymore01:20
Luriaand chat, and small01:20
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KaKaRoToah.. no multiplayer paint in farsight though.. :p01:21
Lurianetmeeting wasnt terrible01:21
KaKaRoTowell, it wasn't awesome either01:21
KaKaRoTobut it was good for that time01:22
KaKaRoToone of the first few01:22
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zetherooLuria: I just got it ... I am running Ubuntu Gutsy on my laptop and I dunno much about the N80001:22
Luriai would love a multiplatform v+v, whiteboard, chat, and desktop sharing app01:23
pierlux"multiplayer paint" lol01:23
Luriazetheroo, go to control panel -> about product01:24
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Luriapierlux, dont knock multiplayer paint01:24
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Luriaif ion storm had released that instead of daikatana, they might still be in business01:25
pupniksounds intriguing01:25
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pierluxit's the wording I found funny01:26
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pupnikLuria: know any open-source painters that allow 'multiplayer'?01:26
zetherooLuria: OS 2007 edition01:26
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Luriaok, youll need a charged n800 and the usb cable01:27
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Luriaand your wifi mac01:27
Luriathen follow
Luriabut dont use the linked image, its old01:29
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Luriafwiw, i always grab the static flasher to avoid headaches, but im paranoid01:31
zetherooLuria: oh my.. this is sounding over my head01:31
qospupnik, the word you are searching for is "collaborativ"01:31
Luriaits not01:31
zetherooLuria: tell me... are there any major advantages to the new OS?01:31
Luriathats a complicated question, read some of the threads on internettablettalk.com01:31
Luriai like it, but its not as stable as os200701:32
zetherooLuria: so it crashes more?01:32
Luriaits not unstable tho01:32
Luriaa little more. overall, tho, its faster01:33
qosdoes somebody use the build in chat application and is willing to test a package for me?01:33
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zetherooLuria: oh its faster than the old one?01:35
lcuk_2zeth - for now there are a lot of apps which have not yet been compiled.  if you are a happy 800 user, dont update unless you see a positive need.  if you are a new user, its probably best going through the upgrade process and then learn the new system in one simpler step01:35
zetheroolcuk_2: I am a new user.... just got it today01:36
Luriatrue. upgrading a built system is a pain01:36
Luriathen flash01:36
lcuk_2i got my 810 recently and had to flash its bios on its first day.  its not *that* tricky as long as you read up first01:37
zetheroohehe.. so what should I do....?01:37
zetherooI thought that since I just got it now would be the best time to update01:37
Luriazetheroo, you know basic shell commands? ls, cd, mkdir?01:37
lcuk_2do you have a windows install?01:37
zetheroosome of them01:37
zetherooUbuntu Gutsy01:37
Luriaok, if you pm me, ill walk you through it01:38
lcuk_2i chickened out and used the nokia windows update wizard01:38
zetherooI have my N800 plugged into USB and AC adapter01:38
* lcuk_2 had it easy01:38
zetheroolcuk_2: sigh01:38
Luriazetheroo, its a dev channel, id be happy to walk you through this privately.01:38
lcuk_2dont worry zeth, if you use linux you wont have probs - from what i have read in the last couple of weeks it goes pretty smoothly01:39
lcuk_2take lurias advice :)01:39
zetherooI will01:39
zetherooI am01:39
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CrashandDiehey everyone !01:40
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CrashandDieI'm going to have to develop an app on a n800, it's the final project of my degree01:41
lcuk_2hi crash01:42
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CrashandDieand I've been playing around with the n800, and loved it, so I just bought a n810, should be heading my way end of this week, early next week maybe01:42
CrashandDienow, I have this question, I'm all excited and stuff, is there any sort of software that supports SIP on maemo atm ?01:42
Luriathe native im stack01:43
Luriaalso there is a gizmo client which will use other sip servers if properly configured01:43
sven-tekHey everyone01:44
CrashandDiesweet, so just input my certificate and I'm good to go ?01:44
sven-tekstill awake01:44
CrashandDieman, I'm about to throw my cell phone away :D01:44
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CrashandDieso, the n800 I'll be working on is running OS2007, but the n810 runs OS2008... Should I upgrade the n800 so I can use the same development environment for both ?01:45
sven-tekIam running OS2008 on my N80001:45
CrashandDieok, great01:46
sven-tekDont know what you use to use01:46
sven-tekIt took some time until i found all my known apps or others01:46
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CrashandDiewell, as I said, I'm an internet tablet virgin, I used it today for the first time01:46
CrashandDieso it doesn't change a lot for me if I just start off with OS200801:47
sven-tekToday i installed canola2 on my n80001:47
sven-tekThats a must have01:48
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lcuk_2crash, is your desktop windows or linux?01:48
sven-tekBut i have one question for the audience. I can not get canola to show any album covers. Is there any trick to do it?01:49
CrashandDielcuk_2, both, unix too... I run debian/gentoo/ubuntu/solaris and xp01:49
lcuk_2sven, i had to set my paths to ensure it built the library.  until i did that it didnt find my music01:49
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lcuk_2crash, get onto the nokia site then - go to the support pages - they have update software and instructions for windows01:50
lcuk_2and linux01:50
CrashandDieyeah I know, I looked at it earlier today01:50
lcuk_2(would give link but nokia seems regionalised - im in europe)01:50
CrashandDieI'm in europe too ;)01:50
CrashandDieI just bookmarked it, cheers01:51
CrashandDiesven-tek, wow, canola is slexy man !01:52
lcuk_2as you are a new user flashing will give you the simplest experience - a clean slate01:52
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CrashandDieyeah, I installed xterm on it and ssh, I was tripping with it01:53
sven-tekI just read about the OS2008 release. I still run the beta.01:53
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sven-tekAm i fine with just doing the apt-get dist-upgrade?01:53
lcuk_2sven, not sure - there was talk of problems with upgrading01:54
* lcuk_2 remembers something about restoring a full backup01:54
lcuk_22 tics..01:55
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CrashandDieso the memory card that comes with it ? Is it 2Gig ?01:55
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lcuk_2yer crash01:56
lcuk_2sven - this is what i read01:56
sven-tekjesus, my root partition has 18.6MB left O_o01:56
CrashandDiesven-tek, desktop or tablet ?01:56
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* lcuk_2 goes back to python hacking01:57
Luriai wish i had that01:57
Luriamuch space01:57
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CrashandDieso, anyone in europe bought it in the states ?01:57
CrashandDieThat's what I did01:58
CrashandDiebrb, cigs01:58
hugolpCrashandDie:  and what about the diferent voltages?01:58
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CrashandDiehugolp, it's not a problem01:58
CrashandDiehugolp, it's the standard nokia charger, you get those for a bargain01:59
CrashandDiehugolp, plus I have like 5 us-eu converters lying around the house, so...01:59
hugolpaha, so where did you buy it?01:59
CrashandDieebay :/01:59
friCrash, HWat about keyboard layout ?02:00
wattisven, you can burn most of the help files and just keep the language of your choice02:00
CrashandDiefri, it's qwerty... What's different about that ?02:00
CrashandDiefri, and even if I want regional support, it's just keymapping, nothing software can't handle :)02:01
lcuk_2crash - what about tab key02:02
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friCrash, yea i know, i have US keyboard, its just better for programming than my regional layout02:05
CrashandDielcuk_2, tab key ?02:06
lcuk_2810 has no tabkey02:06
CrashandDieand ?02:06
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lcuk_2i didnt think it would matter until i started to program in python02:06
sven-tekwatti, i found a huge syslog file recently that burned my root-partition to 100%. It behaves really ugly when there is no space left02:07
CrashandDieI'm not going to program on the tablet lol02:07
CrashandDielcuk_2, and even if I02:07
CrashandDieand even if I *have* to program on it, I'll get myself a BT keyboard02:07
lcuk_2yer - im gonna be gettin one myself02:08
pupnik fri 100% agree02:08
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|tbb|anyone managed to get irc running on os2008, ive just get a few protocols more after installing the sw update. included icq aim yahoo, but no irc ;(02:09
* Mousey did02:09
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Mouseyxchat tho, haven't tried pidgin02:09
|tbb|forgotten to say, i use the built in IM02:10
Mouseyoh. abandon hope all ye who use the builtin IM02:10
Mousey[i use it too, shamefully]02:10
Mouseybesides, xchat is way cooler =)02:10
Mouseyuh, well.. for IRC02:10
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Mouseyall i really want is freeciv02:11
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Mousey*me cries*02:11
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CrashandDiebtw, I tried to use cgi irc earlier, didn't seem to work on the OS2007 browser02:12
abrockTrying to use NetworkManager in Fedora 8 and I keep getting prompted to that nm_applet request to unlock default keyring. I'm new to linux, so anyone available to help with this. Thanks.02:12
wattisven:  Do you know where that file came from?02:13
CrashandDieabrock, networkmanager as in Gnome ?02:13
abrockI believe so.02:13
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CrashandDieabrock, the keyring is basically an app that allows you to save a lot different keys, be it wifi networks, internet passwords, etc02:14
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|tbb|do i have to install the irc protocol from pidgin to use it with built in IM02:14
CrashandDieabrock, you probably need to define a "keyring password", each time a program attempts to access the keyring, you'll have to type in that password to grant the privileges02:14
abrockcrashanddie: I entered the password I set for the current user, and I tried the password for the root. They don't work. So is it a different password.]02:14
Mousey|tbb|: uh, i don't think so.02:14
CrashandDieabrock, tried an empty field ?02:15
Mouseyor 1234502:15
|tbb|i wonder what im doing wrong02:15
CrashandDieabrock, if it doesn't work, try to execute the keyring standalone, and see if you can figure out things from there02:15
abrockcrashanddie: Empty field brings the prompt back demanding to enter a password...that it cannot be blank. Where do I set the default keyring password?02:15
lcuk_2tbb -  i just use xchat in 0802:15
CrashandDieabrock, also, if you need more help, the guys in #gnome should be more than willing to help, and probably know a lot more about it02:16
abrockThanks for the info.02:16
lcuk_2abrock, 08 has no password, you have to do the ninja gainroot stuff and then set one02:16
|tbb|i will reinstall the rt-beta thing02:17
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Luriaguys, im helping zetheroo with linux flashing02:17
Luriaand for some reason its not going02:17
abrocklcuk_2: Pardon my ignorance...what is ninja gainroot stuff02:17
Luriathe md5 is ok02:17
Cptnodegard  WANTS02:17
Luriahis output is:02:18
Luria(paste to follow)02:18
Luriazetheroo> flasher v0.9.0 (Jan 19 2007)02:18
Luria<zetheroo> Suitable USB device not found, waiting02:18
Luria<zetheroo> USB device found found at bus 005, device address 01402:18
Luria<zetheroo> Found device RX-34, hardware revision 130202:18
Luria<zetheroo> NOLO version 1.1.602:18
Luria<zetheroo> Version of 'sw-release': <no version>02:18
Luriaand then drops him to prompt02:18
Luriausing flasher-3.0-static02:18
Luriaany thoughts?02:19
lcuk_2when i was flashing it kept showing detected then dropping02:19
lcuk_2it was down to button release timings or something but i got it in the end02:19
zetherooLuria: are we sure the command was the right one?02:19
lcuk_2has he removed the power02:19
Luriathe command was fine02:19
Luriazetheroo, its unplugged from the adapter, right?02:19
zetherooLuria: yes02:20
zetheroojust USB02:20
zetheroolcuk_2: when should the button be released?02:20
Luriayeah, thats the one thing thats hard to explain02:20
zetherooand why does it say this: Version of 'sw-release': <no version>02:20
lcuk_2zeth, on my 810 i was told to "hold down home button and press power on, when i see the usb symbol i should release the home button"02:21
zetheroo lcuk_2: yeah thats what I did.... but the USB icon is there from the start02:22
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lcuk_2i did this but because the power button needs an extended press before it will start (its about 1second) i was keeping power down for too long and not catching it02:22
Luria./flasher-3.0-static  RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.50-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R02:22
zetheroook.. I am going to try again02:22
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Luriause that02:22
lcuk_2yer zeth, once you see the usb, release the home key and flashing should be available02:22
sibbeshouldnt that be "flasher -F RX.bin -f -R" (missing -F?)02:23
Luriatry that02:23
* lcuk_2 spent about 20minutes trying to start it02:24
Luria./flasher-3.0-static -F  RX-34_2008SE_2.2007.50-2_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R02:24
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zetheroook... something is happening02:25
zetheroo100% (134400 of 134400 kB, avg. 7294 kB/s)02:25
zetherooFinishing flashing... done02:25
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Luriaok, the n800 should reboot now02:25
Luriamy fault, sorry02:25
zetheroobooted up fine02:25
zetherooLuria: no thanks for your help02:26
zetheroothanks everyone02:26
zetheroois Skype video possible now?02:26
sibbehmm funny, the flasher binary has 3.0 in its name and it says v0.9.0 :)02:27
zetheroowhat do you use for video conferencing?02:27
lcuk_2i dont02:28
czrsibbe, 3.0 is marketing version, 0.9.0 is the real one? :-)02:28
czrit's like maemo sdk 4.0.. /me runs02:28
Luriaright, cause flasher 3 is a big commercial project02:28
czrit should be!02:29
lcuk_2Cptnodegard, wow that looks ummm odd02:29
zetheroolcuk_2: but its possible right?02:29
czrcause it contains valuable intellectual trade secret information property thingies02:29
lcuk_2i dunno02:29
lcuk_2not looked02:29
frizetheroo, Gizmo 4.0 or the build in Gtalk should work for video02:29
lcuk_2i bet it was called 3.0 cos it was used with maemo 3.0...02:29
Robot101it should do SIP video calls too02:30
sibbeczr, yea.. tried flasher-2.0 binary: flasher v0.8.1 (May 30 2006)02:30
Luriaactually, v+v on gizmo using the sip stack works02:30
CrashandDieMy ISP offers SIP, so I'll be able to call for free to like 70 countries ;)02:30
czrit's kind of logical sibbe. use 3.0 for version 2008. err. 2007. with maemo sdk 4.0.. err. something.02:30
zetheroofri: nothing built in works with video?02:30
Luriathe question is what to use in the desktop02:30
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CrashandDiebtw, did anyone ever try to run anything else than maemo ?02:31
Luriacp flasher-3.0 flasher-4.002:31
lcuk_2lol luria02:31
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sibbe..or just use 0xFFFF
LuriaCrashandDie, there isnt anything really useful that runs well02:31
zetherooLuria: do you do video conferencing on your Nokia?02:31
lcuk_2would sugar run on it?02:32
lcuk_2(olpc desktop)02:32
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zetherooLuria: what do you use to do it?02:32
Luriausually it's n8x0-n8x002:33
Luriabut i've used gizmo on windows with the n80002:33
frizetheroo, well, video works with other tablet owners with the build in Gtalk02:34
Luriabut not using the gizmo client on the n800, using the im stack02:34
Luriafri - in theory it should work elsewhere, ive just not seen a v+v jingle client02:34
zetherooI need something which will allow me to video conference with PC and other tablet users02:34
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Robot101there was actually an instant video client made to talk to the N800s, but they didn't get us to write it so it worked badly... :P02:36
Robot101so it was cancelled02:36
zetherooso there is nothing for this?02:36
zetheroothats the main reason I was getting it02:36
Robot101well, SIP video calling should work02:36
Robot101I'm no expert on windows SIP clients though02:36
zetheroobut does the other end need to be using SIP too?02:36
zetheroowhat about MSN and Yahoo chat?02:37
friLuria, It only works on the tablets, dont think the specifications for video are complete yet02:37
zetheroois there a all-in-one messenger for that?02:37
Robot101not yet...02:37
Luriano video on anything other than SIP (or XMPP, in theory)02:37
Robot101fri: our implementation on the tableg lags a little behind the jingle spec, but tbh I'm not aware of many other implementations anyway02:37
rm_youGizmo Project works between n800 and WINDOWS pcs >_>02:38
Robot101everyone got distracted implementing google talk and not real jingle02:38
lcuk_2but google is the gods02:38
lcuk_2speaking of which will android work on them?02:39
Luriaquote:The problem is that (suprisingly) the N800/OS2007 seems to be the only Jabber/XMPP client on the planet to have jingle-video support. Even Google's own gTalk PC client doesn't even have it, and they basically authored the jingle-audio, jingle-video specs! I guess if you look at it, Nokia is just way ahead of the curve, not that it helps02:39
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zetherooso how can I chat with Yahoo or MSN?02:40
Luriaupdate that to os2008, and that's the problem02:40
Luriazetheroo, pidigin or the new rtcomm beta02:40
zetheroowhich is best?02:40
zetherooI use pidgin in Ubuntu02:40
zetherooand I like it02:40
Luriaor gaim, or a transport server, like jablet02:40
zetheroobut there is no video02:41
Luriai like the new rtcomm stack02:41
Luriabecause its smaller, less to run, less hard disk space02:41
Robot101Luria: google didn't basically author jingle, they authored gtalk. I authored the jingle video support... :P02:41
Lurianote the "quote:"02:42
Luriafrom the thread; not my words02:42
Robot101maybe I should join itt. it might get depressing though. but yes, it's kinda bad that google never actually followed on with jingle implementation stuff :/02:42
zetheroohow to install pidgin?02:42
Robot101we're really happy with the new rtcomm stuff now you can use msn/yahoo on it02:43
tbbqrunning irc from built in IM now,really exited02:43
Robot101zetheroo: go to and follow the instructions there, you can add MSN and Yahoo to the built in IM client02:43
Luriazetheroo, i think thats the best method02:44
legindRobot101, at least gizmo has video support02:44
zetherooRobot101: what is the built-in IM client called?02:44
Luriai just removed pidigin las night02:44
Robot101zetheroo: "Chat", "Internet call", "Contacts"... :)02:44
Lurialegind, um, so does rtcomm02:44
zetheroolegind: gizmo? video support? from N800 to PC?02:44
Robot101zetheroo: it's based on Telepathy real-time communications framework
legindLuria, haven't tried it yet02:44
Robot101legind: you can video call using SIP on the built-in client, as well as jingle02:45
|tbb|is it just for me or does the IM eats much cpu, as showed in statusbar applet02:45
legindRobot101, ah very cool02:45
Luriartcomm has always had v+v for jingle and sip since last fall02:45
Robot101jingle video for a year now02:45
|tbb|top says 93-99 %02:45
Robot101|tbb|: can you see which program is doing it? run ps in the console and look at the CPU %s?02:46
rm_youzetheroo: yes, Gizmo does video from n800 -> PC02:46
rm_youzetheroo: i said that earlier :P02:46
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Robot101|tbb|: oh dear... :(02:46
zetherooRobot101: that link looks great.... where do I start.. heh?02:47
Robot101|tbb|: are you using jabber or google talk?02:47
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|tbb|yes also02:47
Robot101zetheroo: the thing about the built-in client is that it's built in, you don't need to install it. you just asked what it's called. :P02:47
zetherooRobot101: I maen before that .. the link you sent me about adding MSN and Yahoo02:48
Robot101zetheroo: the thing has instructions, a link to click on the N800 to start the install02:48
Luriai have 0 cpu, 11mb for messagebus02:48
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zetherooRobot101: do I need to have the nokia plugged in?02:49
|tbb|i had disabled googletalk account still the same, will trying a reboot02:49
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zetherooI need MSN, Yahoo and IRC chat02:50
Robot101zetheroo: the instructions on the page. go to them. read them. do what it says. you need to run the application installed then do something, then click the magic link from the browser on the device itself...02:50
Luriayeah, forgot about the installer icon02:51
Luriawas driving me nuts02:52
zetherooRobot101: is thsi going to give me IRC, yahoo and msn?02:52
Luriacan the installer be safely removed?02:52
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Luriazetheroo, yes02:52
Robot101zetheroo: yes02:52
Luriabut id stick with xchat for irc02:52
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zetheroocan I also undo everything I do here?02:52
lcuk_2you can reflash anytime and get back to this exact spot02:53
zetherooLuria: so maybe I should just go with Pidgin and do everythign through it02:53
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lcukpup better than fudging02:57
Luriai understand, as i have one (770) too, but again, irc is a fairly advanced concept given most computer users02:58
Luriaenough that if you need irc, you know how to flash HE02:58
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lcuksigning out guys, cyas02:59
czrLuria, anything is fairly advanced given most computer users ;-)03:00
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pupnikLuria: good points. I have flashed 2007he but most of my ports need testing on 200603:01
Luriai cant imagine that support for 06 will last much longer03:01
Luriaeven amongst the community03:02
Luriaperhaps especially so03:02
Luriasure, there will be forks, but the price of a n800 is so low that i suspect most enthusiasts will jump03:03
czrthere'll be a lot of old 770s lying around03:03
rm_youportable web servers you can shove somewhere like the ceiling in random buildings? :P03:04
czrI'm thinking of animated picture frames that you can update over the wlan03:04
czrwith sound03:04
|tbb|rm_you i was often think about that03:04
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zetheroowell I installed pidgin..,. for a newbie it was much easier than the other thing....03:09
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Luriahuzzah, openvpn works03:09
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Lurianow i have to try and break it03:09
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zetheroois it just me ??? or is there a plastic lining on the screen?03:13
GeneralAntillesThere is.03:13
Luriano there is a "screen protector"03:13
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GeneralAntillesIt's a factory screen protector03:13
GeneralAntillesI'd leave it on.03:13
zetheroooh ok03:14
zetheroois it possible to take it off?03:14
Luriai'd leave it on as long as it takes you to buy a real one03:14
GeneralAntillesbut it protects your screen03:14
GeneralAntillesfrom evil scratches and the like. :)03:14
Robot101it scratches and glares like a bitch03:14
Luriaits good for 2 weeks tops03:14
czronly good scratches get through03:14
Robot101you won't be able to see anything after a matter of days03:14
Robot101rip it off03:14
GeneralAntillesGrab yourself an anti-glare protector from boxwave.com03:14
Robot101the real screen's fine03:15
GeneralAntilleswait for that to arrive before you take it off.03:15
Robot101if you keep it in the sock and don't tumble dry it with your car keys or something :P03:15
GeneralAntillesRobot101: I beg to differ, I used the factory protector for 6 MONTHS. :)03:15
zetheroois it possible to get the remove the Get Started and other large icon off the display?03:15
zetherooand there is this other sticker on the LCD protector thats really not coming off03:17
zetherooI am afraid to break the screen if I am to rough03:17
Lurian800 is pretty sturdy03:18
Luriaits had a number of meeting with manhattan concrete03:18
Luriaa bit dented at the speakers, but it hasnt left my side since june03:19
zetherooawww. ... why the heck do they put a sticker there that will leave a silvery mess when taken off?03:19
Robot101zetheroo: because you're meant to take it off :P03:19
Luriacause the bible tells you so03:20
Luriaok, on to openvpn routing03:20
zetherooGeneralAntilles: how did you get the protector clean?03:21
GeneralAntillesMy sticker came right off.03:21
GeneralAntillesEither blot at it with the sticker03:21
GeneralAntillesget yourself some Rosonol to rub it off with03:21
zetheroono silvery rubbish?03:21
GeneralAntillesor take the whole protector off.03:21
Robot101it has a little silvery tab as a message to you: remove the whole thing :P03:22
zetheroowhat about some alcohol?03:22
Robot101if that helps you muster the courage, go for it03:23
GeneralAntillesMight work03:23
GeneralAntillesDon't use much, though03:23
GeneralAntillesWill probably just cloud the protector.03:23
Robot101#maemo encourages responsible drinking03:23
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zetherooGeneralAntilles: you were talking about a long-term solution to protecting the screen?03:30
zetheroooh.. thats not a screen protector?03:30
GeneralAntillesIt is03:31
zetherooRobot101: how do I get the square icons on the screen to go away?03:31
zetherooGeneralAntilles: oh ok03:31
Robot101which ones?03:32
Robot101on the home view?03:32
Robot101or down the side?03:32
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zetherooRobot101: the Getting started and other big icon on the display03:35
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Robot101click home, then select applets?03:35
sven-tekdoes anyone know how canola can be configured to show cover-images?03:39
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sven-tekhmm, just downloaded , but it doesnt run properly04:02
* sven-tek gets some sleep bye04:02
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|tbb|i like the screenshot part
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KaKaRoTo|tbb|, kik04:07
infobotKaKaRoTo meant: |tbb|, lol04:07
KaKaRoToinfobot, thx :p04:07
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nwidgeris there a channel specifically for the modest mail client?04:09
lcukhey guys04:10
lcukcan any linux gods tell me how why i cant edit the file04:11
lcukis it cos i neeed root04:11
|tbb|hey dragorn, having 3,5h running kismet without stopping gathering packages, is it os releated or just because its n810?04:12
nwidgerhow can i find out my ip address on the n810?  ifconfig isnt installed04:16
|tbb|as root running ifconfig04:17
nwidgerhow do i become root04:17
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nwidger|tbb|: how do i become root?04:18
|tbb|add this catlog to your repository
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nwidger|tbb|: okay, then what?04:20
|tbb|bora user04:20
nwidgeris that what i want04:20
|tbb|then install becomeroot04:20
nwidgerokay id heard of this, didnt know where to get it04:21
nwidgerthanks :)04:21
|tbb|for further applications go
lcukhow do you stop bein root?04:22
lcukso its for the duration of the termsession?04:23
nwidger|tbb|: how many of those repositories are "safe" to use?04:24
|tbb|yeah i guess so if you not started any other application as root user04:24
nwidger|tbb|: but i mean adding them wont screw up dependancies and stuff04:25
nwidgermake me have to flash the stupid thing again04:25
|tbb|if u dont needed just deactivate it04:25
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lcukso i can becomeroot, try to edit the file i think i  need root for, then closeterm and i will be back to standard user04:26
t_s_ohmm, i fear that that nokia just got one-upped by a mid...04:26
nwidger|tbb|: so i installed becomeroot but i cant run it, it says command not found04:26
|tbb|lcuk, thats right04:26
lcukgood, thanx for the info04:27
|tbb|sudo gainroot04:27
nwidgerah okay04:27
nwidgerthanks :)04:27
* lcuk wont be nervous to try this tomorrow04:28
t_s_o <- just take a look at that keyboard ;)04:28
|tbb|np, gotta go now. is a good point to get infos around nxxx04:29
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lcuktso that wont be even close to price of nokia but holy shit it looks good04:32
t_s_oyes, price is the real question right now...04:32
lcukits gonna be at least as much as an oqo...04:32
t_s_owell its supposed to run linux so...04:32
lcukmaybe more04:32
|tbb| two weeks ago i was thinking about an input technology like this, two weeks later its going to public ,heh04:32
GeneralAntillesInteresting, but it's gonna cost a fortune.04:34
GeneralAntillesNo battery life, either.04:35
lcukdont knock it, the spec have been scaled down, the battery pack actually weights 7kg ;)04:35
GeneralAntillesAn even better question: what does it run?04:36
lcukxp vista linux04:36
lcukits a strange distro04:36
|tbb|mylo 2 a competitor of n81004:37
GeneralAntillesNot with it's OS.04:38
GeneralAntilleser, its*04:38
|tbb|but for most ppl who arent familar with linux its defintly a competitor04:40
GeneralAntilles800*480 at the iPhone's screensize is kinda insane.04:40
lcukgen, you on bout the 8x0?04:41
GeneralAntillesMylo 204:44
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lcukdidnt thikn there ws much diff in size between 8x0 and iphone apart frfom res04:45
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GeneralAntillesiPhone is much smaller04:47
GeneralAntilles3.5" screen04:47
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zetheroohey why is it that skype doesn't go to the notification area ?04:47
lcukjust noticed and also read up on mylo04:49
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GeneralAntillesBecause Skype is proprietary and crappy.04:54
zetherooanother question: is it possible to transfer data over USB?04:54
GeneralAntillesIf you want something better, and aren't tied to Skype. Gizmo is the way to go.04:54
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GeneralAntillesJust plug it in.04:54
zetherooGeneralAntilles: but with Gizmo doesn't everyone else need to have gizmo too?04:54
GeneralAntillesOnly for IM04:55
GeneralAntillesNot for calling04:55
GeneralAntillesSame as Skype.04:55
lcukzeth try puttin bug report in its nokia supported cos its preinstalled04:56
GeneralAntillesYou can use the built-in client, too.04:56
zetheroowell for everything from calling to im... just not if you call to a regular phone04:56
GeneralAntillesGizmo does everything Skype does (well, everything + video, which Skype doesn't do), except they use open protocols.04:56
lcukskype should do video tho04:57
lcukit does on desktop...04:57
GeneralAntillesIt doesn't on maemo04:58
GeneralAntillesGizmo does, though.04:58
zetheroook... but for me to call someone on their PC with Gizmo... he or she has to have Gizmo as well.... right?04:58
GeneralAntillesAside from adoption numbers, Gizmo is pretty much better than Skype in every way possible.04:58
nwidgerbut skype will add video support soon, im sure04:58
GeneralAntillesor you could pay for out credits and call their phone04:58
lcuknw i agree they should align04:58
GeneralAntillesSame as they'd have to have Skype for you to call them with Skype.04:58
GeneralAntillesEh, maybe, nwidger, but Gizmo has it NOW.04:59
zetherooGeneralAntilles: I need something for internet calling with video....04:59
lcukdoes it connect to ppl with skype at the other end or do they ned gizmo?05:00
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GeneralAntillesYes, they either need a phone or Gizmo.05:01
GeneralAntillesJust like Skype.05:01
GeneralAntillesSkype uses proprietary stuff, so only Skype can talk to Skype05:01
GeneralAntillesThey could use another Jabber client to logon to their Gizmo account for IM05:02
lcukright, so skype need to pull their arses out and get video on here workin - i know its good to havee openness but i cant get all current skype ppl toinstall and change ttheir setup just for me05:03
Luriayes! opevpn and n800 with route is finally working05:03
Lurianow to generate more keys05:03
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lcukdoes skype on full linux have video does anyone know?05:04
lcukie x8605:04
GeneralAntillesBut not on maemo05:04
lcukso it may just need the skype devs and some maemo hackers gettin together to do some portin to the dsp05:05
shacka1yes, for reasonably large values of "just"05:06
nwidgerbut gizmo on ubuntu doesnt have video support :(05:06
lcukdo any of the other arm phones have skype video?05:07
lcukmaybe the port is already done it just needs gluing05:08
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lcukoh poo, ive gotta sleep05:08
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K`zanI've got a largish pile of updates the want libillumination0 but apparent;y it is missing.  Not sure what is going on, but could it be that I need to change all repositories back to "respoitory"?05:30
K`zan[+"i"] ?05:31 is no longer public05:31
GeneralAntillesand is working fine.05:31
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K`zanOK, so I can go change everything back, thanks much!05:35
K`zanPerhaps even ssh will finally update!05:35
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zetherooGeneralAntilles: hey ... I installed gizmo....and tried to call a friend who uses Gizmo on his PC ... and I could hear him but he could not hear me05:37
K`zanzetheroo: Same problem under kubuntu...05:37
K`zanWorks *fine* on the n800 tough.05:38
zetherooGeneralAntilles: also I cannot find any video options in gizmo05:39
GeneralAntilleszetheroo: sounds like a firewall issue.05:39
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GeneralAntillesI think you just have to open up the camera05:40
GeneralAntillesHaven't use it myself05:40
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zetherooGeneralAntilles: what should I do about the sound?05:40
halley - - pygame work in progress05:41
GeneralAntillesGoogle it05:41
GeneralAntillesIt's a NAT issue05:41
GeneralAntillesDon't remember the fix05:41
zetheroofix for the PC or the N800?05:41
GeneralAntillesIt's a NAT issue05:42
GeneralAntillesat somebody's router.05:42
halleyzetheroo, if it's networked teleconference stuff, it's fixes for the NAT (the router).05:42
Merlinushi. any astronomy soft for n800?05:42
zetheroohalley: what shoudl I tell my friend to do?05:43
halleyYou've already been told to google for a solution.05:43
halleyRecipient router must expect certain ports and forward them to the right node on their network.05:43
halley"How can I teleconference behind a NAT router?"05:44
zetherooone thing I do not like about the N800 is that the back panel is very flimsy05:46
shacka1halley: WOW, I've been looking for a flashcard game for ages :D05:46
dragornhalley: Graphics look really smooth05:46
dragornhalley: cairo?05:46
halleyshacka1, thanks, still working on it... it'll be a while before the first five areas are playable for a 1.0 release.05:47
shacka1halley: it's on the emulator or on the device? (because I don't have any of the sidebar or traybar icons on the emulator)05:47
halleyshacka1, running on the device, plain old honest screenshot.05:48
shacka1halley: any chance it will do chinese one day? :)05:48
halleydragorn, no, plain old pygame without any third-party libraries, not even the sprite class.05:48
halleyIt's a bit slow (8fps) on the device, but wicked on the PC.05:49
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shacka1anyway, no chinese?05:50
halleyNo plans for it, but you're welcome to build that out later.  :)05:51
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halleyI'll be releasing all sources at the 1.0.05:51
shacka1halley: heh, if I knew chinese already I wouldn't be looking for learning software :)05:51
zetheroohalley: I tried googling it.. and I am not finding anything presice05:52
shacka1halley: anyway, great job05:53
K`zanNope, changed all the repostories back to respository and the stuff needing libillunimation0 still claim the package is missing.  Am I missing a repo for that?!?05:54
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GeneralAntillesscratchbox or device, K`zan?05:55
GeneralAntillesIt's not mentioned on gronmayer05:55
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Device Sir!05:55
GeneralAntillesDunno, then.05:56
GeneralAntillesGoogle turn it up?05:56
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GeneralAntillesWhat are you trying to install?05:56
rm_youMerlinus: I may start work on some in the next months05:56
rm_youas I am going to be taking an astronomy class, and it will probably be useful for studying :)05:57
K`zan"unable to update diskusage: Application packages missing: libillumination0(<0.1.20071224-1) - listed twice...05:57
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Trying to update diskusage.05:57
Merlinusgreat rm_you !05:57
K`zanAnd a raft of others.05:57
elbhalley: haha, nice title on the cling pad05:57
halleyelb, arigatou05:58
K`zanfindmine, libillumination0 itself and wifiinfo - all want it.05:59
GeneralAntillesMaybe a deprecated maemo package?06:00
blast007I see "libillumination0" on
blast007for both OS2008 and OS200706:00
K`zanHow can a current package have depreciated dependancies and still want to update :-(?!?06:00
GeneralAntillesRight, blast00706:00
GeneralAntillesI do too06:00
K`zanblast007: Checking06:00
* GeneralAntilles needs to learn how to type.06:00
GeneralAntillesThanks, blast007!06:00
* blast007 just copied and pasted ;)06:01
K`zanLOL, GeneralAntilles accurate typeing if forbiden by charter on irc :)06:01
Luriaoh yeah, whats with libillumination?06:01
K`zanNo idea, other than several packages want it to be able to update.06:01
Luriaive had problems with it for about 3-4 days06:01
K`zanopenssh is also got a missing openssh-common....06:02
K`zanprobably server too.06:02
Luriai had that problem, but it eventually worked06:02
K`zanLuria: Same here, was patient and then asked :).06:02
Luriano one knew what i was talking about06:03
K`zanNoticed that the installs and updates both seem to have that problem reasonably often here.  Sometimes fine and then they seem to get stuck erroring out.06:03
dragornI wouldn't apply updates to base packages06:03
dragornhalley: I was hoping you were using cairo because I'm looking to optimize some complex drawing ops, but it seems like you're seeing performance issues too :P06:04
K`zandragorn: I have NO idea what it is safe to update anymore, to be honest.06:04
dragornK`zan: generally if I didn't install it myself, I don't update it06:05
halleydragorn, I haven't tried cairo, to be honest.06:05
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K`zandragorn: I have no idea how many dependancies are dragged in with what.  Everything installed here I have installed myself...06:05
halleydragorn, I try hard to minimize dependencies to remain super-cross-platform.06:05
dragornhalley: cairo is slick.  I'm just abusing it heavily.06:05
dragornhalley: yeah.  Cairo is pretty crossplatform now, it's the gtk 2d engine for the base widget graphics06:06
K`zanI think I am just going to delete all the repositories and go get all of them from gronmyer...06:06
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halleyEven "gtk" is something I don't want to bundle or depend on.  I want a simple py2exe for win-users when I'm done.06:06
dragornhalley: fair enough06:07
Luriaooh. tired06:07
Luriai should sleep or beat portal again.06:07
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GeneralAntillesK`zan, red pill is off, right?06:07
dragornhalley: and for examples of what I'm doing.  I suppose it's a bit much to ask the poor thing to do a lot of alpha blending.06:07
GeneralAntillespowervr. :(06:08
dragornhalley: of course os2008-final broke usb host and now it kernel panics enumerating the device06:08
halleydragorn, heh, yes.  And python's not good for messing with surfarray either.  I do the bare minimum.06:08
dragornGeneralAntilles: no kidding, if we could use that to accelerate the 2d ops I'd be super happy06:08
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halleyIt's fine except on the ARM platform, that is.06:08
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dragornhalley: actually most of the cairo docs use python as their example language :)06:08
halleydragorn, when you're on the ARM, you have no psyco to help out.06:09
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dragornhalley: Not sure what psyco is06:09
halleypython JIT for intel06:09
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dragornyes.  lacking a jit would make things suck.06:10
dragornmy code is all in C, python was a dep I wasn't willing to have06:11
K`zanabsolutely brilliant, small black letters on dark grey, brilliant!06:11
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K`zanWell, that was stupid, sigh.  malformed line in sources list for god knows how many of those repos I just added.  Time to walk away from this for a while before I use the n800 for a hammer...06:16
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zetherooin Gizmo it says I can add MSN and Yahoo people..... but when I do it nothing happens06:36
GeneralAntillesBetter off using the built-in client.06:37
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zetherooI think this video conferencing feature is a bit over-rated since its such an underdeveloped thing....06:45
zetheroobasically at this point its pretty useless06:45
zetherooEven Gizmo will only perform video chat with a Windows PC06:46
zetherooso its very narrowed down06:46
GeneralAntilleser, and OS X06:46
zetherooand OS X06:46
GeneralAntillesWhich makes up most of the computers on the planet.06:46
zetheroothing is that this being a Linux product you would expect it to work 1st of all with Linux machines06:46
zetheroobut again it does not06:47
GeneralAntillesEh, give it a month06:47
zetherooand thats a blow-it06:47
zetherooyou think?06:47
zetherooI suppose you could be right..06:47
GeneralAntillesIt just hit beta on Windows and OS X06:48
GeneralAntillesSo of course it's coming to Linux06:48
zetherooagain.. just like with Skype, Gizmo fails to position itself in the notification area06:48
zetherooyeah... but what we really need is Skype Video .... there is no way I am going to get all my clients and contacts to change to Gizmo just like that...06:49
GeneralAntillesYou're doing it incorrectly.06:53
GeneralAntillesYou have to set up Gizmo's SIP and Jabber with the built-in client.06:53
GeneralAntillesThen you'll be set.06:53
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White_FlameSo I'm starting to try programming this thing, and there's just so much to go through.06:58
White_FlameI picked a random game, Battle Gweled, and pulled it into my scratchbox, but I don't have libsdl-net in there.  How do I get it in?06:58
White_Flamestandard source download and ./configure && make in scratchbox?  apt won't see it06:59
White_Flamethough it is installed on my n80006:59
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zetherooGeneralAntilles: but not set with other Linux PC's07:16
GeneralAntillesI was talking about notifications.07:16
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zetheroocan I change the backgrond image on the screen?07:21
GeneralAntillesThe home screen on the boot screen?07:22
GeneralAntillesGo to Home07:24
GeneralAntillestap the menu07:24
GeneralAntilleszetheroo, you just get your device?07:24
GeneralAntillesHave you installed FBReader or maemo mapper yet?07:25
zetheroonothing except OS2008, Gizmo, Skype and Pidgin07:26
GeneralAntillesDo so, they're awesome.07:26
GeneralAntillesFBReader seriously turns these things into the greatest ebook readers on the planet.07:26
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zetherooare they easy to install?07:27
GeneralAntillesscummvm, Battle Gweled, maemodrac, MaemoSweeper, and LXDoom are good if you're into games.07:27
GeneralAntillesmaemo mapper is in Extras07:28
zetheroono.. its for work mainly07:28
GeneralAntillesYou familiar with ?07:28
GeneralAntillesIt's a listing off all the maemo repos07:28
GeneralAntillesYou want the ones for OS2008 of course.07:28
GeneralAntillesmaemo mapper depends on something that's in Bora extras, so be sure to install that.07:28
zetherooI am getting mapper07:29
GeneralAntillesmaemo mapper does GPS (and offline/GPS-less) with OpenStreet, Google, and/or VirtualEarth maps.07:29
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White_Flamehow do you put standard gnu tar, et al, on the device?  With apt, it wants to uninstall busybox and then EVERYTHING else if you dare to try07:29
GeneralAntillesYou have an mpd server running?07:29
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GeneralAntillesCheck out mmpc07:31
GeneralAntillesIt's an mpd client you can use to control music playback on another machine with.07:32
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tlacuacheis this room appropriate for general os2008 questions?07:36
tlacuachewhen I input things via the on-screen keyboard, i've noticed that it "learns" certain words that I've typed in so it can suggest them to me in the future. things like domain names, usernames, etc...07:37
tlacuacheis there a way to clear this list?07:37
GeneralAntillesWell, individually, you can highlight the word and tap-n-hold it to remove07:38
GeneralAntillesI think you can clear the dictionary in Control Panel, though.07:38
tlacuacheactually, the tap and hold things exactly what i wanted. don't know why i didn't think of that.07:39
tlacuachethanks a lot!07:39
GeneralAntillesI didn't find out about it until October last year07:39
GeneralAntillesI've been on maemo since 2005. ;)07:39
tlacuacheyeah, like half of the posts at internettablettalk are yours.07:39
rm_youlol, truth :P hey GeneralAntilles07:40
GeneralAntillesNah, texrat EASILY outposts me.07:40
GeneralAntillesAmong others.07:40
GeneralAntillesHowdy, rm_you.07:40
rm_youhalf the ones *I* see are yours, anyhow :P07:40
rm_youor mine, but i only read like three threads :/07:40
GeneralAntillesITT is infuriating and addicting.07:41
tlacuachehey, i guess while I'm here, one more thing: is there any downside to extending the device's virtual memory to the internal memory card via the control panel? does it affect battery life or anything like that? i just got an 8gb sdhc card for the removable slot and thought i might as well use the internal one for something...07:41
GeneralAntillesNo, it really only helps.07:42
GeneralAntillesSpeeds things up just a touch in high-memory situations and helps prevent out-of-memory crashes in really high-memory situations.07:42
tlacuachek, that's what I figured. thanks. i'm just getting into this maemo/os2008/n800 scene for the first time. really loving it. :)07:42
rm_youerm, well... it can eat flash memory fairly quickly with the number of writes performed07:42
tlacuachewell, a 128 meg card is cheap, eh?07:42
GeneralAntillesNah, rm_you, it's not that swappy.07:43
rm_youif thats what you're running internally07:43
rm_youwell, with the Zaurus it would kill an SD card in a month or two :P07:43
GeneralAntillesI haven't worn out any cards so far.07:43
rm_youso i've been afraid of doing that with my n80007:43
rm_youi'm using both 4g cards07:43
rm_younot as cheap :/07:43
GeneralAntillesBeen using swap since I bought it07:43
GeneralAntillesno troubles07:43
rm_youhow long is that? :P07:44
GeneralAntillesand on the 770 before that.07:44
rm_yousame card?07:44
GeneralAntillesUh, year-ish with the 770 since they added swap.07:44
GeneralAntillesSince January with the same 1gb on the N80007:44
GeneralAntillesJust swapped it for an 8GB07:44
GeneralAntillesLike I said, though, maemo isn't very swappy07:45
rm_youhrm, I may try it then07:45
GeneralAntillesso it really only starts hitting the flash when it needs to.07:45
GeneralAntillesand, heck, if you burn it out by this time next year, 16GB cards'll be cheaper than 4GB cards now. ;)07:45
rm_youheh, true07:46
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tlacuachewell, i'm going to run. thanks for the tips. like I said, i'm loving the n800. i dumped my P.O.S. dell axim for this and it's like my hands are finally untied. :) being a software engineer and a linux user for the last 5 years or so, this thing is a dream.07:49
tlacuachethanks again!07:49
GeneralAntillesSure thing.07:50
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Xxaxxhello :)08:08
XxaxxI've a problem with mplayer. mplayer plaing mp4 VERY slowly (low resolution)08:09
rm_youwhat codec is the mp4 encoded with?08:10
Xxaxxvideo format=mp4v08:12
Xxaxxselected video codec = ffodivx08:13
Xxaxxany file from break.com08:15
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[pablo]can someone put the /usr/share/zoneinfo/America/Phoenix file from os2008 up somewhere so i can grab it?08:19
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White_FlameI don't have Phoenix as a home city in my OS2008.  How do I get that in there?  I wget'd that file and put it in /usr/share/zoneinfo/America08:31
White_Flameseeing as Arizona has its own timezone half the year08:31
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[pablo]it's already there08:32
zetheroohow do I get mapper working?08:33
[pablo]just need to symlink it to /etc/localtime08:33
zetherooI don't have GPS08:33
[pablo]i symlinked backwards, woops heh08:33
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White_Flame[pablo]: does the GUI stuff have its own database of cities then?08:34
[pablo]the nokia mapper app is almost useless *with* the gps, i can't imagine it does much without it08:34
[pablo]White_Flame: it appears so yes08:35
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[pablo]i symlinked it to Phoenix, and am using ntp to set the time, the gui still doesn't recognize it, but ntp will keep the time accurate08:36
White_Flamethis is looking more and more like OSX, where the front-end and *nix backend are completely different systems08:36
White_Flamethe file browser not being able to access the full filesystem, etc08:37
[pablo]i've only noticed an issue with the time system08:37
[pablo]well the file manager is more of a 'don't mess with files you didn't put there' approach08:39
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[pablo]if you know enough to need to get to those files then you know how to get to them08:39
GeneralAntilleszetheroo go to the menu08:46
GeneralAntillesgo to the maps option08:46
GeneralAntillesGo to map repositories08:46
GeneralAntilleshit download08:46
GeneralAntilleszetheroo: I've got it mostly covered on page 1 here:
zetherooGeneralAntilles: but these maps will not be available to me once Iam no longer online... right?08:47
zetherooDo you have to have a Nokia GPS reciever?.... or will just about any BT GPS reciever work?08:48
GeneralAntillesThe Nokia ones suck08:48
GeneralAntillesGet an i-blue08:48
GeneralAntillesI have a 737, it works great08:48
GeneralAntillesmaemo mapper caches the maps08:49
GeneralAntillesI cover that in the link above08:49
GeneralAntillesDownloads them to a db so you can use it offline.08:49
zetherooGeneralAntilles: so once I view the map once its downloaded and I can refer to them when offlne?08:50
GeneralAntillesThere's a downloading feature so you can cache large areas over several zoom levels.08:50
mbufcan we do USB communication between qemu and host PC for Maemo?08:51
zetherooGeneralAntilles: do you have to tell it to download each map you are viewing?... or is it all automatically doing it?08:52
GeneralAntillesIt's automatically doing it if you are seeing them.08:53
zetheroois there a way to just download an area of maps?... like if I wanted Sydney, Australia....08:54
GeneralAntillesLook at the link I gave you. :)08:54
GeneralAntillesOr check out maemo mapper's built-in help.08:54
GeneralAntillesIt's pretty extensive.08:55
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zetheroook.... I was viewing Google Street maps and was at about 13 zoom .. then I went into Manage Maps and selected all the zooms I wanted and pressed OK... and now it seems to be frozen09:01
zetheroodid I do something wrong?09:01
GeneralAntillesHow many megabytes are you downloading?09:01
zetherooI think....09:01
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GeneralAntillesAnything below zoom level 2?09:01
GeneralAntillesIf it's frozen-frozen, it'll tell you09:02
zetheroonow it says processing maps09:03
GeneralAntillesThat's the downloading taking place.09:03
zetheroooh ok09:04
zetherootakes a loooong time huh09:04
zetheroohow long will it take?09:04
GeneralAntillesGoogle seems to throttle the longer downloads.09:04
GeneralAntillesShouldn't be too long09:05
zetherooso did I do it the best wya?09:05
GeneralAntillesyour connection may influence it.09:05
rm_youCan someone take a look at this dmesg output and tell me why they think my USB flash drive isn't working with USB Host on my n800? :P09:05
zetheroomy connection is pretty fast09:05
GeneralAntillesAbout 20-30MB chunks is how I do it.09:05
zetheroocan I cancel this?09:05
rm_youzetheroo: not easily :/09:05
GeneralAntillesJust close mm09:06
rm_youzetheroo: i just leave mine overnight for the ~500mb downloads09:06
rm_youworks fine09:06
zetherooI can't even do anything else on this thing with mapper open09:06
zetheroobut I am only downloading 3.809:06
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rm_you3.8 mb?09:06
zetherooI think so09:06
rm_youthat should take like 3-4 minutes on a BAD connection... under 30 seconds on a decent one :/09:07
zetheroomaybe it was like 38mb09:07
zetherooI don't remember09:07
rm_you38 mb isn't bad09:07
rm_youjust leave it09:07
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zetheroothe progress bar has not moved a bit09:07
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zetheroohow big would it be for a whole city?09:08
zetherooand zoom from 4-1309:08
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rm_youdepends very much on the size of the city09:08
zetherooI just close mapper09:09
tank-man38MiB sounds reasonable, will take a long time to dl09:09
rm_youi would leave it open09:09
rm_youand just let it go09:09
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tank-mani picked zoom 1-10 before and it was a couple gigabytes09:10
rm_youlol yeah zoom 1 is not a good idea :P09:10
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zetherooohhh... it says 3892.10 MB09:10
rm_youah lol09:10
zetheroothats almost 4 GB09:10
rm_youthat's very different :P09:10
rm_youyou may want to delete your maps file >_> lol09:10
rm_youthough i guess you didn't let it run for too long09:10
GeneralAntilles6-14 is better09:11
GeneralAntillescheck before you start a download, though. :P09:11
GeneralAntillesMaybe 709:12
zetheroois there a way to add more memory to the device from borowing some from an SD card?09:12
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dragorncontrol panel, virtual memory09:16
rm_youzetheroo: like for storing map files?09:20
rm_youzetheroo: if that's what you mean, then you can actually tell MaemoMapper to store the map file on the SD09:20
rm_youthat's what i do09:20
GeneralAntillesChange the storage location in the Map Repositories dialog to one of the mmcs09:20
* qnr boots/has the OS on a 4Gb SDCard09:20
rm_youno one is familiar with hostusb stuff i guess :/09:21
rm_youi suppose i'll postpone this project to a later date09:21
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zetheroorm_you: no I meant adding memory to the system09:30
rm_youah lol09:30
zetheroolike so that I can run more apps at the same time09:30
GeneralAntillesControl Panel -> Memory09:31
zetheroocause I have a 4GB SDHC card in the internal slot09:34
zetherooand another one for the external one09:34
zetherooso any BT GPS reciever will work with this unit?09:34
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rm_youzetheroo: i use and love my iTrek09:37
zetherooI was looking on ebay and none of them are cheap09:38
rm_yougets a fix in like under 30 seconds cold. less than 10s not.09:38
rm_youand good battery life09:39
rm_youand chargable via standard usb :)09:39
White_FlameI was looking at ebay and saw a bunch of BT GPSes for <$3509:39
White_Flameof course, you get what you pay for ;)09:39
White_Flame(also, I guess you're in .au... your continent may vary)09:41
zetheroohow many channels should one of these have?09:42
dragorn12 is good09:44
dragornmore is better09:44
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zetheroolike there are some here for 60 bucks with 42 channels09:45
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dragornhm. either we're talking different things or that's odd09:45
dragornor I'm *way* behind09:45
astro76you're behind ;)09:45
astro76modern mtk chipset does 32, and now I see there's one with 5109:46
astro76of course since there's never that many sats in teh sky...09:46
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astro76zetheroo: that looks like a real pice of junk09:47
GeneralAntillesGet one of the i-blues09:47
astro76most of these are excellent09:47
astro76yeah i-blue or holux09:47
zetheroobut how much are they?09:47
astro76MTK has much better battery life than sirf iii chipset09:47
GeneralAntilles$50-ish USD09:47
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zetheroothis sounds like a good idea to me09:48
GeneralAntillesNah, bad idea.09:48
GeneralAntillesDestroys card access and kickstand09:49
zetheroooh right09:49
GeneralAntillesand the kickstand is the device's single greatest feature.09:49
zetherooI want something to protect the body and screen09:49
GeneralAntillesThe bundled case is decent for protecting it while it's in your pocket.09:51
zetheroocan you install WINE on these things?09:52
GeneralAntillesIt's an ARM CPU. <_<09:53
zetheroook..... something too hectic for my tiny brain09:53
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GeneralAntillesWINE doesn't do processor emulation09:54
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dragornWine doesn't emulate CPUs.  The tablet isn't intel.  No wine.09:54
dragornyou could do dosbox.  i guess.  it'd be stupid.09:54
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melmothGRmblblbl, discount code are still not working here (france).09:55
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Luriawine is not an emulator?09:59
Luriathey should write that somewhere10:00
dragornugh.  so, kismet works on 8x0, *but* i have to kill wlancond and restart it to make it do so.  That's so horrible.10:00
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jkyrodosbox is available in extras I think10:02
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zetheroowhat does dosbox do?10:04
zetheroois it like WINE?10:04
dragornemulates dos10:04
Luriaif it were like wine, it would be called dine.10:05
* Luria is a bit loopy atm10:05
zetheroothere is an app in the installable apps list called camera... whats it for?10:08
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Dasajevtaking pictures10:09
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White_Flamealthough even when you run the camera program and pop out the webcam, it still opens up the video chat thing10:15
GeneralAntillesThere's an option.10:15
White_Flamewhoa, camera just crashed out on me, back to the Nokia startup bar10:16
zetheroohey for some reason when I eject the webcam nothign happens10:16
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zetheroobefore something would open with the image playing10:18
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unique311_Tak, pong neogeo10:19
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unique311Tak: pong neogeo10:20
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JaffaMorning, all10:48
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pupniksup peeps10:51
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Epeloonis there a Latex compiler/editor application for n800? Thanks.10:56
unique311you tried the usual google.10:57
Epeloon:), yes but i found only a post abour latex on 77010:57
Epeloonbut not sure which program it uses10:58
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pupnikunique311: are you identified with nickserv?11:06
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unique311i got ur message11:08
unique311messaged you back11:08
unique311let me identify11:08
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AD-N770bon dia / good morning11:09
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zetheroomy webcam is not working anymore11:18
zetherooI just got this thing today11:18
zetherooand already something like this....11:18
zetheroowhen I pop it out nothing happens11:18
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Cptnodegardits useless anyhow11:19
Cptnodegarddownload the camera application and see if it works11:19
zetheroohow can this be happening....?11:19
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zetherooI installed camera and it works but not automatically11:23
zetherooand then camera just closes sudenly11:24
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zetheroogosh now everything just froze11:25
zetheroowhat app is it that loads automatically when the camera is ejected?11:28
trickiethe system video call app11:29
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trickieunless you have configured it not too11:29
zetheroowell... I don't remember telling it not to work11:29
zetheroois there a way to check?11:30
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trickiei do not have a n8xx here, but i assume if you load the video call software and cehck the preferences11:30
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trickiethere should be an option11:30
zetheroovideo call software?11:31
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zetherooI don't know of any such software11:32
zetheroodoes anyone know how to enable the camera trigger?11:34
zetherooits ok11:36
zetherooI got it11:36
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lardmanmorning all11:38
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jonekmorning ... discount codes till not valid in german Nokia store :-(11:52
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ccookejonek: that'll be irritating :-/11:58
nomisyeah, that sucks.11:59
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X-Fadejonek: I have a german one lying on my desk that I can't use and has to be exchanged. I think that is bad too ;)11:59
jonekX-Fade: what do you mean by 'has to be exchanged"? is it a faulty code or some slow sicount-code-activation-propagation?12:00
X-Fadejonek: They shipped the german version, while i'm NL based..12:00
jonekanybody from Germany here who has a working discount code?12:01
pupnikjonek, i sent feedback but no response yet12:01
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X-Fadejonek: No, you will hear about it for sure when it happens..12:02
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pupnikjonek, if you find their phone number paste it please12:02
nomisX-Fade: oh - does this manifest itself in the hardware?12:02
X-Fadenomis: qwertz keyboard instead of qwerty.. Big difference..12:02
nomisoh right.12:02
joneknon working discount code and a mail telling "valid from today onwards" suX0rs12:03
pupnikMediaNokia GmbH Heltorfer Str. 1 40472 Düsseldorf12:04
pupnik0211 94 12-012:04
pupnikthat's supposed to be Nokia Gmbh12:04
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pupniklet me know if you call them jonek.  I'll call them later today12:05
islandsvinurX-Fade: they actually sent the right one, but Nokia for some very strange reason put NL with DE, AT and CH in one region12:06
X-Fadeislandsvinur: Yep, error made in finland..12:06
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jonekislandsvinur: the N800 for my last discount code came from NL, but I'm living in DE12:07
unique311pupnik it works12:07
unique311dialng germany12:07
unique311answering machine12:07
unique311wondering if i should post a video for this.12:08
islandsvinurX-Fade: but they aren't exchanging are they?12:09
islandsvinurjonek: also nice :)12:10
jonekpupnik: I called and was given the following mail address: dusseldorf.reception@nokia.com12:11
pupnikanswering machine or person jonek?12:12
jonekpupnik: person12:12
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pupnikCord: give them a call too12:13
lardmanhmm, express delivery doesn't appear to be all that express in the UK: If you place your order on Monday by 1.30pm, you should receive your order Tuesday/Wednesday during working hours.12:14
X-Fadeislandsvinur: They'll get back to me on this. The shop was talking to Nokia Finland..12:15
X-Fadeislandsvinur: But I have found another item number for the NL version on webshops. 02704N1 instead of the 02701Z7 I have received.12:16
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jonekpupnik: I wrote a mail...12:18
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islandsvinurX-Fade: Hmm, I will send them an e-mail too, then12:22
zetheroois there a way to check how long the battery has to go until fully charged?12:23
X-Fadeislandsvinur: Call the 0800 number and ask for a Dutch speaking person.12:23
X-Fadeislandsvinur: They promissed to call me back before the end of the day ;)12:24
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timelessWhite_Flame: you can do: ln -s / ~/MyDocs/rt12:32
timelessdid anyone make a .deb for phoenix?12:32
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islandsvinurX-Fade: Heh, the guy on the phone was confused and thought I was you or something ;)12:33
timelessGeneralAntilles: technically win32-arm exists12:34
timelessso while people laugh at wine on non x86, they're laughing for the wrong reasons12:34
timelessof course, the people asking about wine are also confused, but...12:34
unique311so who wants to know how to make the free international calls on the n80012:35
unique311after a couple of days of searching, i finally found a way.12:35
unique311and it works12:35
trickiethe suspense is killing me12:36
unique311might work for international users if Freedigits will allow international users to register for a number12:36
timelessunique311: skype doesn't work?12:36
timelesslast i checked skype lets you call toll free numbers12:37
unique311it does but you have to pay12:37
timeless+1800 is definitely free w/ skype12:37
unique311this is every number12:37
unique311where are you from timeless?12:37
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timelessDestination B7 Rate/minuteEUR excl. VATEUR incl. VAT12:38
timelessUSA-Toll Free . 0.000 . 0.00012:38
unique311you calling someone in europe for free timeless12:38
unique311but not just toll free12:38
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timelessoh, i misread12:38
timelesssorry, most of the time the question i see is about dialing 800 like numbers12:39
timelessnote: where i'm from doesn't relate to where i am12:39
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unique311nah, i just setup the defualt client with my freedigits number, and made a couple of calls to some german numbers, and got thru12:39
unique311spoke to 1 lady, that was confused on why i was asking her if she spoke english12:40
unique311timeless, vacation?12:40
unique311you at work right now?12:41
* timeless nods12:41
* timeless sighs12:42
* timeless just got a 3 page email that is kinda essential reading12:42
unique311happy readings then.12:43
* mgedmin empathises12:43
unique311i'll just make another bootleg video showcasing the free international calls trick.12:43
unique311i got good response my last vid.   bunch of freaking Grandcentral request.12:43
X-Fadeislandsvinur: Hehe, fun times for them as all NL packages need replacing.12:44
islandsvinurX-Fade: Probably :)12:46
X-Fadeislandsvinur: Did you use your N810?12:47
islandsvinurX-Fade: yes12:47
X-Fadeislandsvinur: Even more fun for them then ;)12:47
islandsvinurX-Fade: You left it in the box?12:48
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islandsvinurX-Fade: I couldn't ;)12:49
X-Fadeislandsvinur: I hoped for a quick resolution, but if it is going to take a while...12:49
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guardiani disable receiving emails from the dev list12:49
guardianuntil subscription codes work everywhere :)12:50
islandsvinurguardian: lol12:50
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timelessguardian: i should have done that weeks ago12:51
lardmanwhere does one categorise a garage project?12:51
lardmanah, right in front of me, thanks12:52
timelessfill in 107 as ...12:52
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guardiantimeless: yeah it's really annoying :)12:52
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timelesscould someone load and tell the reporter how to change whether internet call is launched when the camera is opened?12:54
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hendryhow do i get sb2 to chroot into ~/.maemo-sdk/rootstraps/armel/chinook40_armel13:00
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hendryit seems when I run sb2, I'm in my own host fs13:01
LoCusFhas anyone got a pdftk installed on their n8x0?13:03
mgedminI thought sb2 didn't use chroots anymore?13:04
timelesssb2 doesn't chroot13:04
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mgedminmy bluetooth gps works without pairing (and apparently doesn't support pairing?), how am I supposed to use it with os2008?13:04
mgedminmaemo mapper is fine, but the built-in maps app isn't13:05
mgedminI suppose I could just stick with mm and ignore that free-trial commercial crap13:05
hendrytimeless: hmmm, when i do a `sb2 apt-get update`, it looks for binary-i386 packages. why might that be?13:06
timelessdepends on how you ran everything13:07
timelesspersonally i use -c when i play w/ apt-get13:07
timelessbut i'm special13:07
nomismgedmin: well, even the commercial crap AFAIK uses the free software gps infrastructure. I guess that at some point maemo-mapper will do this as well. No idea how to use this without pairing though.13:09
hendrytimeless: to set the arch for apt?13:09
timelessbut i'm doing something very different13:09
mgedminnomis: true13:10
hendrytimeless: could you give me a clue how to set binary-arml for apt?13:10
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timelessAPT::Architecture "armel";13:11
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mgedminhm, probably there13:12
mgedminhm, probably there's some default pin in the manual13:12
hendrytimeless: thanks btw13:12
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timelesshendry: if you need to do that, you're doing something wrong :)13:14
timelessare you using sb2 or sb2 -e ?13:14
mgedminok, I'm stupid13:14
mgedminthere's a default pin, and google knows it13:14
nomismgedmin: heh  :)13:14
timelessit's not 0000?13:15
hendrytimeless: just sb213:16
timelessyou probably want -e, and you probably want to read about sb213:16
timelessbut don't take my word for it, i never got that far w/ sb213:16
hendrytimeless: i put your conf in `rootstraps/armel/chinook40_armel/etc/apt/apt.conf.d/20arm`13:17
timelesshendry: i have a single fully specified apt-conf file13:17
hendrytimeless: btw, do you know anyone around here with java porting experience?13:17
timelesswell, in fact, i have 3 or more such files13:18
hendrytimeless: apt.conf.d is cool13:18
timelessdefine porting13:18
timelessporting java to a platform13:18
timelessor porting a java app to a different java platform13:18
hendrytimeless: building java (cdc) for arml (chinook)13:18
timelessi know they exist, i don't know their names13:19
mgedmintimeless: no13:19
mgedminit's not 000013:19
mgedminI tried 0000 before13:19
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timelessmgedmin: wow, that sucks13:19
X-Fademgedmin: Try 1234513:20
* mgedmin wonders why his paranoid sysadmin instincts won't let him type the actual pin, given that google knows it already anyway13:20
Luriathats almost the combination for my suitcase!13:20
timelessx-fade: he already said google knew the answer13:21
jkyrotimeless,  sun's PhoneME works in OS200713:21
mgedminactually, I've never seen a 5-digit bluetooth pin on any device13:21
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timelessjkyro: i wans't asking13:35
timelessfwiw, in case people are interesting, my (ask infobot about the deb) will have an os2008 cross reference13:35
infobottimeless meant: fwiw, in case people are interested, my (ask infobot about the deb) will have an os2008 cross reference13:36
* timeless frowns13:36
mgedmininfobot, what about the deb?13:37
* infobot about the deb to understand recursion, you must first understand recursion13:37
* timeless eyes infobot wildly13:37
hendrytimeless: what am i doing wrong here?
lardmando you think infobot caught something from _Monkey...?13:39
timelessinfobot mxr-maemo-org-dns deb?13:39
timelessinfobot mxr-maemo-org deb?13:39
* timeless frowns13:39
* timeless has memory loss13:39
timelessbot's are important, they protect against memory loss13:40
timelessunfortunately if you forget the keys, the data is effectively lost anyway13:40
timelessinfobot deb13:41
infobotfrom memory, deb is unofficial, all warrantees void,
timelessthere we go13:41
* Jaffa ywans. Morning, all.13:41
Jaffa(Did I say that already?)13:41
JaffaAh, yes.13:41
dpb_Afternoon :P13:41
timelessyou yawned earlier?13:41
* timeless frowns13:42
* timeless hates proxies13:42
lardmanmemory loss, you should have asked the bot13:42
dpb_Indeed, proxies suck..13:42
timelessis the url13:42
Jaffatimeless: I didn't yawn, but I did say mornin' :)13:43
* Jaffa 's developer device should arrive today, Mrs Jaffa can have her N810 back (I say, "back, but she's never had it ;-))13:44
* timeless chuckles13:45
lardmanJaffa: you in the uk?13:46
unique311that didn't last long, i think they caught on to me.  my calls are not going thru anymore..13:46
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unique311local still works, no international.13:46
unique311i'll try again later and see if it works again.13:47
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blahdeblahFor the 2nd time today, activating my bluetooth keyboard has locked up all input on my N800 except for the buttons.  The bluetooth keystrokes don't register, and the text recogniser won't appear again.  :-(14:11
blahdeblahIs this a known bug?14:11
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lardmando any garage projects have discussion lists, or only commit lists + forums14:14
hullfandanI have a 'newbie' question regarding packages if anyone has a moment and a kind heart to help a windoze user struggling with linux. I have developed a test application under scratchbox using the vmware maemo sdk image.  This works fine under emulation (if a little slow). I now need to test the application on hardware.  I gave up on the remote target over x-term etc. So I think I need to make a deb package for the ARMEL ta14:14
timeless if you tap on the bt icon in the status bar area and choose disconnect, what happens?14:14
lardmanhullfandan: why don't you ssh into the device?14:15
blahdeblahtimeless: Tried that the first time with no success.  Needed a reboot.14:15
floriangood morning14:15
lardmanhi florian14:15
blahdeblahflorian: evening14:15
hullfandanI tried, but couldn't get it to work. even following the instructions. As I figured I am going to have to build a package at some point I though I might as well just do that14:16
* blahdeblah yawns - almost bed time! ;-)14:16
hullfandanI got as far as setting up a superuser and then got lost/confused14:16
lardmanhullfandan: Although building a package is necessary in the end, it's useful to be able to see output (presumably)?14:17
lardmanhullfandan: I hate package building, you'll need to ask someone else about that, but if you need help to get ssh working that's easy14:17
hullfandanlardman : yes. I just want to check what I have coded so far works on hardware before going any further14:17
lardmanhullfandan: red pill mode, install openssh on the device, make sure you have ssh on the PC and do: ssh root@someipaddress14:18
hullfandanlardman : ok thanks I will go over ssh again now and see where I went wrong.14:18
lardmanhullfandan: you shouldn't need to setup any accounts, etc.14:18
timelesslardman: capture-root would be needed unless you have r&d mode...14:19
* timeless hates r&d mode14:19
hullfandanlardman: ok thanks, so someipaddress should be the IP of the maemo?14:19
lardmantimeless: ssh from pc to the device...?14:19
BlafaselShort survey: Any hints where to get a N810 as cheap as possible? is quite pricey. I do have friends in the US etc., so is there a better option?14:19
timelesshullfandan =~ s/maemo/device/14:19
hullfandani installed become root as well14:19
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lardmanhullfandan: yes, of the n8x014:19
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hullfandanlardman : I'm actually using a 770 but I have upgraded to 0S200714:20
timelessb;afasel: the us will be your best price point until european companies give up on X=X parity14:20
hullfandanlardman : so I am developing for bora, please tell be that is correct for 770 running OS200714:20
lardmanhullfandan: I think so14:20
hullfandanlardman : thanks, that's good enough for me atm.  My main problem is that although I try to use linux more (I dual boot ubuntu now) I am still lost when I get into the terminal window.14:22
lardmanhullfandan: you could ssh from windows14:22
lardmanhullfandan: or do you mean once you're on the 770?14:22
hullfandanlardman: booth :)14:23
Blafaseltimeless: Just checked it.. Crazy14:23
lardmanhullfandan: what does you app do?14:23
Blafaseltimeless: 450 EUR here, 480$ over there.14:23
timelessblafasel: currency speculation, is um... interesting14:23
timelessblafasel: eww, it's not X=X?14:23
* timeless frowns14:23
timelessthat's bad14:23
BlafaselNa, 460 Euro vs 480 $ even14:23
timelessit used to be 1:114:23
BlafaselWell, that's still only 325 EUR in New York14:23
hullfandanlardman : not much at the moment, just checking out what I can do on the hardware. I make games so I'm looking at that atm. I've just got some basic stuff running using SDL.14:24
timelessyeah... but it means they're considering shifting away from 1:114:24
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timelesswhich is pretty much a disaster14:24
lardmanhullfandan: I was wondering wherher your app would need to be installed (if it has data files, etc.) or if it is self-contained14:24
hullfandanlardman : it has about 3 bitmap graphics  at the moment but nothing else14:25
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onionthank you nokians, my N810 arrived today14:26
hullfandanlardman: I've not used ssh before. Is it a comms protocol that I can use to copy files to the 770 to run them from there?14:26
lardmanhullfandan: ssh is secure shell, like telnet but secure. sftp is what you want to move files (which also comes with the openssh package)14:27
halleyI've always found scp to be much more convenient thatn sftp, but whatever.14:27
* mgedmin prefers scp to sftp14:27
hullfandanlardman: ok thanks, that makes sense14:27
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wumpusunless you don't know the exact name of the remote file, then scp is useless :)14:27
lardmanmgedmin: I'm shocked. Why?14:28
lardmanmgedmin: I find it really painful to use14:28
hullfandanmgedmin: I'm happy to use whichever is the easiest to use for a windows user ;)14:28
* blahdeblah prefers rsync to everything ;-)14:28
onionhas anyone noticed that the map software uses oggs for direction playback14:28
mgedmineasier on the command-line?  scp filena<tab-completion> server:directo<tab-completion><enter>14:28
wumpustab completion doesn't work on the server side mgedmin14:28
mgedminhullfandan: google for a nice windows gui sftp client then14:28
wumpuswinscp is nice14:29
mgedminwumpus: source /etc/bash_completion14:29
blahdeblahwumpus: It does if the server dir structure happens to match the client ;-)14:29
mgedminblahdeblah: no need for that14:29
mgedminall you need is passwordless ssh logins (with ssh-agent and a public key)14:29
wumpusmgedmin: it cannot know what is on the server before logging into it right?14:29
mgedminwumpus: bash_completion logs in and runs ssh on the server14:29
blahdeblahmgedmin: That is way cool - i never realised that came out of the box.14:30
wumpusso it tries to do another login every time you press tab.. ok, I still prefer the sftp way14:30
mgedminit doesn't work too well when directory names contain spaces, though14:30
* blahdeblah runs away to experiment with bash_completion14:30
mgedminso maybe scp is more convenient for a few special use cases that I happen to use mostly14:30
mgedminand sftp may be more convenient in general14:30
wumpusagreed, scp is useful for some cases, especially in scripts14:30
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mgedminthere's also sshfs14:31
* blahdeblah basks in the power of bash_completion - bwaahaaahaaaaaaaa14:31
wumpusit's also nice that it allows to limit the bandwidth, I don't know if sftp does14:31
mgedminfor the ultimate convenience14:31
lardmanhullfandan: the best one for Windows is one from (imo), but they appear to have removed the free version14:31
wumpuswinscp is the best imo, it's from the same people as putty14:31
glassfilezilla has support too14:31
hullfandanlardman: I don't want a windows one thanks. I am doing everything under emulated debian environment. It just makes more sense for me to use one that is more familiar to a windows user I guess14:32
lardmanI think putty may be the way forward as Windows doesn't come with an ssh client either14:32
glassi prefer it over winscp and ssh.coms14:32
lardmanhullfandan: ah no, just use the command line in that case14:32
glassfrom the putty guys theres pscp.exe for windows commandline too14:32
BlafaselOkay, just asked a New Yorker to bring me the N810 on monday. Wish me luck ;)14:32
hullfandanbest if I stick to linux as I am doing all development in linux14:32
BlafaselThere's no difference between the US and the EU version (apart from the keyboard), right?14:33
lardmanhullfandan: with sftp use "cd" to change dir on the server side and "lcd" to change dir on the client side and and then "put" and "get" to move files14:33
lardmanhullfandan: or perhaps scp does have its advantages....14:33
hullfandanlardman: I've got to get is to connect first ;)14:34
lardmanhullfandan: like ssh, sftp root@someipaddress14:34
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halleyAnyone who puts spaces in directory names deserves the hell they receive.14:35
inzmkdir "foo bar"14:36
* timeless likes winscp14:36
halleyinz, yes, but quoting spaces on a remote shell is trickier.14:36
* timeless has used's but not recently14:36
hullfandanlardman: you say I should know what it means. :)  Hang on I am in windows at the moment. i need to switch to linux so I can try this as I go along.14:37
timelessblafasel: just the price14:37
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timelessand whose taxes you're paying14:37
hullfandanlardman: btw does this work over wifi or should I connect the 770 via usb?14:37
Blafaselhalley: mkdir foo\ bar14:37
timelessoh, no, technically that's wrong14:37
timelessthe us version has us maps by default14:37
lardmanhullfandan: either is fine14:37
Blafaseltimeless: Can those be changed?14:37
hullfandanlardman: ok, thanks. Brb, off to linux land14:38
lardmanhullfandan: just be careful as sometimes the wifi connection can go to sleep, then you need to wake it up by opening a web page, etc., on the 77014:38
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hullfandanlardman: ok I use usb cable then. can you recommend a good linux irc client14:38
|tbb|hi all, who can help me to manage a ssh -X session from desktop pc to n810 , so i can run maemo applications on linux box. Anytime i had ask here somebody says Have you set the Display variable, but i cant figure out how to do it correct.14:39
lardmanhullfandan: I use ksirc I think (I'm running WinXP atm)14:39
hullfandanlarman: ok thanks :)14:39
hullfandanlardman: brb14:39
lardmanhullfandan: do you have a graphical debian install?14:39
lardmanhullfandan: ksirc is for KDE14:39
hullfandanlardman: yes the maemo vmware one that I'm using to dev under and an ubuntu one14:40
hullfandanlardman: ok thnks14:40
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lardmanStill no N810 delivery :(14:41
* timeless got kicked out of a study14:41
timelessi'm not average14:41
timelessi don't think phones are fashion accessories, and i don't eat fast food :(14:41
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* lardman was confused, was thinking of walls of books and reading lamps14:41
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|tbb|timeless geeks arent mainstream ppl14:44
darxhi i've installed the cli version of rdesktop and its trying to access /dev/dsp which doesn't exist. where is the sound device and do I have to compile rdesktop myself to fix this?14:44
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pupnikif anybody gets USB wifi cards running please mention my name or /msg me14:45
darxpupnik: have you tried?14:45
pupnikdarx: unfortunately the osso compatibility for /dev/dsp isn't builtin14:45
pupnikoss i mean14:46
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pupniki'd really like to see /dev/dsp support in OS2009 or whatever14:46
pupniki've tried getting the /dev/dsp stuff running independently but i didn't figure it out14:46
pupnikit's part of alsa14:47
pupnikIf you want to preserve OSS/Free or OSS/Linux compatibility, you need to insert one more driver: the snd-pcm1-oss driver for OSS-compatibility. Issue a14:47
pupnikmodprobe snd-pcm1-oss14:47
pupnikThis will give you /dev/audio and /dev/dsp-support, just as the OSS/Free (kernel) drivers and OSS/Linux (the $25 ones) do. Note that this is only an emulation.14:47
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maemolardman: back, ksirc seems nice too, thanks for the tip ;)14:49
darxpupnik: i'm new to maemo and nokia. is it possible to recompile the kernel?14:49
lardmanmaemo: np14:50
inzdarx, sure it is14:50
darxinz: any guides anywhere?14:50
maemolardman: oops, wrong name, hullfandan here obviously. I'll change that :)14:50
lardmandarx: maemo wiki14:51
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lardmanhmm, or there used to be, I can't see it now14:51
pupnikon the /dev/dsp thing d.schmicker writes "I compiled esound-clients from debian tar (without patch)14:52
lardmantrickie: thanks14:52
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trickiedarx: make sure you also use the latest sources in the os2008 repo14:52
pupnikcopied esddsp, and to the places and started ./esddsp ./gtick and everything works fine. "14:52
trickiewell thats the sources for the kernel in the latest image14:53
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trickielardman: np14:53
darxtrickie: thanks :-P14:53
trickiedarx: your welcome14:53
pupnikso afaict /dev/dsp is a *nix FIFO, which alsa presents through an emulation layer14:56
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maemolardman: sorry to be a total noob and off topic but how the hell do you change your nick in ksirc?14:57
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BlafaselWith /nick NewNick14:58
BlafaselLike in every client on the planet ;)14:58
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timelessmaemo: http://irchelp.org14:58
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hullfandansorry, don't really use irc14:58
darxa wasted oppertunity :-)14:59
timelessoh no15:00
* timeless just realized that this box has <75g free15:00
timelessit'll last maybe 2 months15:00
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|tbb|so nobody has experience force maemo apps from n810 to x server of desktop pc in here, right now?15:01
darxpupnik: thanks. :)15:02
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Jaffalardman: belatedly, yes - in the UK15:03
pupnik|tbb| you could look at how scratchbox apps run on the host server15:03
pupnikshould be the same shebang on the device15:03
hullfandanHow do I find the IP address of this 770 so I can connect to it with ssh/sftp? <againi please remeber I new to all this terminal voodoo ;) >15:04
lardmanJaffa: np, I was looking at the delivery times on the Nokia site & they reckon 1 to 2 days15:04
inztimeless, 75 grams?15:04
kulvehullfandan: from connection manager15:04
kulveconn.mgr. menu -> tools -> ip, or something15:04
|tbb|pupnik you mean that xepyhr thing? Does it mean i have to run a Xephyr Server?15:05
Blafasel|tbb|: Setting $DISPLAY?15:05
Blafasel|tbb|: And reading man xhost probably. This is both thinking in basic linux terms, I don't own a NXXX yet15:06
pupnik|tbb|: nah xephyr is just an x-server running as a userspace app on top of your linux X server15:06
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inz|tbb|, maemo-launcher does not support envoronment, so you need to use maemo-summoner15:06
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pupnikGoogle: Your search - maemo-summoner - did not match any documents.15:06
kulveinz: did you just compile the osso-xterm from the trunk? It's segfaulting every now and then and I could try to debug the reason..15:07
inzkulve, yeah, it should be the trunk15:07
kulveok. I'll try to find time at some point to launch it with gdb15:08
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inzpupnik, did you think it would be mentioned in the website?15:09
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|tbb|inz does it mean ssh -X root@n810 and then just start any application like maemo-summoner /usr/bin/browser.launch will do the trick?15:09
inz|tbb|, I would guess so (if the ssh server has X11Forwarding enabled)15:09
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hullfandandamn, lost connection15:10
hullfandanHow do I find the IP address of this 770 so I can connect to it with ssh/sftp? <againi please remeber I new to all this terminal voodoo ;) >15:10
|tbb|ive changed the config to that allready without effect, have to try this later15:10
hullfandansorry if you already answered that15:10
pupnikit needed quotes inz - sorry for the silliness...15:10
lardmanhullfandan: is this a usb connection15:10
|tbb|or anyone able right now to check this, havent n810 in my network at work right now15:10
hullfandanlardman: yes atm15:10
timelesssp3000: so, it's about time to look into buying a new drive for swift15:10
lardmanhullfandan: can you get root on the 770?15:11
hullfandanlardman: I tihnk so as I int actaully used it yetstalled become root but I haven'15:11
hullfandanlardman: I have xterminal open on the 770 now, and I have a terminal open in debian on this PC15:12
lardmankulve: do you know if your connection manger suggestion works for usb connections? Don't they bypass libconic, etc.?15:12
alteregoWow, that was some odd English use :D15:12
lardmanhullfandan: on the pc, can you run "ifconfig"? You may need to be root there too15:13
lardmanalterego: was it?15:13
hullfandanyeah sorry. I am english but linix has melted my brain :)15:13
hullfandanlinux, argh I can't even type anymore15:13
alteregoMaybe you installed loonix by accident :)15:13
hullfandanlol, maybe :)15:14
hullfandanlardman: yes that ran and gave me some info on what looks like local network settings15:14
alteregoThat's a good point really. Shouldn't libConIc support USB net ..15:15
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lardmanhullfandan: it should have given you some info about the usb0 connection?15:15
lardmanhullfandan: it probably mentions an ip address along the lines of 192.168.1.X15:15
hullfandanlardman: no, just ethel and lo15:15
lardmanyou will need to bring it up then, or just use wifi15:16
hullfandanlardman: ethl and lo sorry15:16
alteregohullfandan, try `ifconfig usb0`15:16
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hullfandanlaterego: usb0: error fetching interface information: Device not found15:16
hullfandansame with usb115:17
hullfandanI will try over wifi15:17
alteregoOkay, so have you modprobed usbnet?15:17
lardmanyou probably need to insert a module15:17
lardmanand likewise on the 77015:17
lardmanI'd go for wifi, much easier15:17
hullfandanok, is there a tutorial anywhere I can follow so I can stop bothering you nice people?15:17
alteregohullfandan, there's a tutorial for the palm. Which uses pretty much the same software.15:18
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fugitivoanyone with a 770 touchscreen with loss of sensibility?15:18
alteregoI.E. ifconfig, insmod, g_ether_usb15:18
alteregoOr whatever it's called.15:18
fugitivoi have several places on my touchscreen that doesn't work as it should15:18
lardmanyou talking about usb stuff:
alteregoEven better, a main tutorial.15:19
alterego~maemo ..15:19
hullfandanlardman: Thanks, I'll try that tutorial15:20
* Jaffa responds to Eero's good points on
lardmanIf you go the wifi route, follow kulve's suggestion and look in connection manager at the connection information and get the ip address from that, then on the pc do "ssh root@ipaddress"15:20
hullfandanlardman: Incase you are gone when I get back or incase I give up and smash this 770 into lots of tiny pieces, thanks for your help.  Thanks alterego too.15:21
* alterego has just eaten the last of the christmas turkey.15:21
lardmanSpeaking of gone, there's only so much working from home I can do, where's my N810!15:22
alteregolardman, is that "do" or "handle" ? :)15:22
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hullfandanI missed kulve's suggestion. I should try that. connection manager on 770 or PC?15:22
lardmanalterego: 2 weeks after it was cooked... hmm15:22
X-Fadelardman: Keeping busy at home so you can stay on the lookout for the UPS van? :)15:22
lardmanhullfandan: on the 77015:22
alteregoYeah, was in a nice curry :)15:22
hullfandanlardman: thanks again15:23
alteregoX-Fade, you in the UK?15:23
lardmanX-Fade: exactly, but I have to go into work because there are things to be done there too15:23
* alterego doesn't appear to be able to do order tracking.15:23
X-Fadelardman: 5 minutes after you will leave, they will show up.. ;)15:23
alteregoI got a "shipped" email from Nokia but that's it.15:23
lardmanalterego: nor can I15:23
X-Fadealterego: Nope, NL. And I had a UPS tracking number.15:24
lardmanX-Fade: tell me about it, perhaps if I drive round the block I'll catch them :)15:24
alteregolardman, did you use the cheapo delivery option like me? :)15:24
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lardmanalterego: no the highly expensive £9.99 super fast method :)15:24
alteregoDamn you!15:24
alteregoWhen did you place the order?15:25
X-Fadelardman: So it would only take 4 days ;)15:25
alteregoI placed mine on Saturday. Got the "shipped" email yesterday evening.15:25
lardmanperhaps even 5, the delivery info says if order is placed by 1.30pm on Mon, it may arrive on Tue/Wed at any time during the day15:25
alteregoWell, afternoon.15:25
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alteregoI only have one Mini SD card to use with it.15:26
alteregoAnd that's the 128M one that came with the N800 ^_^15:26
lardmanI just found a 1Gb one in a camera15:27
alteregoI think I'll end up carrying both my tablets around. The N800 will just become my media player.15:27
lardmanMy N800 will continue to be a dsp test bed, until some family member asks to borrow it :)15:28
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alteregoMy dad wants to steal my N810 ..15:28
alteregoWhen it arrives.15:28
alteregoHis reasoning is: "But, I could really do with a transflective display and you never go outside". :D15:29
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lardmanskibur: I wasn't smiling at you in particular, don't worry :)15:30
X-Fadealterego: Sometimes the sun shines inside your room too, you know ;)15:30
alteregoX-Fade, not with my blinds.15:30
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timelessx-fade: so, who would have a use for being able to browse the os2008 sources?15:32
timelesssp3000: os2008 says you sent me a message @01:55:30 PM15:33
timelessis that true? :)15:33
alteregoAre you pimping your MXR again?15:33
timelessyes :)15:33
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alteregoAny updates? I've got nothing to do right now I'd be interested to see it :)15:33
X-Fadetimeless: Hehe, mxr is always very handy..15:33
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sp3000timeless: o_O15:37
lardmansounds promising15:38
hullfandanor to put it another way I am connected to my 770 over wifi.  It didn't work initially as a previous tutorial told me to lock root, but I unlocked it and that works15:38
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hullfandanlardman: what now ;)15:39
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lardmanhullfandan: find your binary on the PC, open a term in that window15:40
sp3000I guess that depeds on which 13:55 that is15:40
hullfandanlardman: I have to do that through scratchbox as that's where the files are. Should I move them out somewhere else first or should that be ok?15:41
lardmanhullfandan: do "ftp root@ipaddress", once it's opened 'cd' to a directory on the 770 where you want to put the file (/home/user perhaps) then do "put binary-name" to upload it to the 77015:41
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colinlhi! is there any API (DBUS signal i suppose) to know whether an hardware keyboard is available on the tablet ?15:41
hullfandanlardman: ok thanks I'll do that15:41
lardmanhullfandan: you can run sftp from within scratchbox15:41
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lardmanhullfandan: or just cd to the actual directory - /scratchbox/users/*/home/ etc15:42
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timelessinfobot deb15:46
infobotsomebody said deb was unofficial, all warrantees void,
timelessalterego: load
lardmanThe last time I waited in all day for something it turned out it had been left with a neighbour at 9 in the morning and no note had been left in my letterbox as my buzzer wasn't working; I might have to go and test it...15:46
lardmanaaaarrgghghhghgh, would you believe it15:48
atlas96what is ?15:48
timelessatlas: it adds a dns entry for (that you can uninstall using application manager)15:48
timelessonce you've loaded it, visit in your web browser15:49
timelesscolin: that should be in HAL, not DBUS, no?15:49
atlas96hmm ok, i don't understand what is the goal :p15:50
timelessatlas96: transparency, it's a prototype15:50
killfillis there any mono VM for maemo jet?15:50
timelesskillfill: google maemo mono is too hard?15:51
atlas96ha ok :)15:51
killfilljust didnt find anything that works on os2008..15:51
timelessatlas: install it, try it out, unisntall it?15:51
atlas96I have another quesiton, i searhing for a gnokii deb working15:51
atlas96I(m doing it15:51
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timelesskillfill: presumably the people who made the 2007 ver will make a 2008 ver15:52
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atlas96it is installed timeless15:52
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timelessatlas96: it's a service, browse through a root15:54
timelesse.g., os200815:54
timelessthat's the source code for the open source components of os200815:54
timelessthe other roots are other things, hopefully described sufficiently15:55
killfilltimeless: really?.. :P15:55
atlas96the webpage isn't the same of my laptop on the n810 now15:55
atlas96i french sorry i take time to understand15:55
timelessatlas96: you'd need to install the deb onto your laptop to get the same result15:55
* timeless frowns15:56
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timelesssomething's wrong15:56
lardmanhmm, somehow I missed the delivery15:56
atlas96okkkkkk ;)15:57
atlas96it is better so with your deb15:57
atlas96another thing:
atlas96what is the widget at the right bottom corner please15:58
sp3000timeless: I think your gstatus is stale :)15:58
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timelesssp3000: what's my status?15:59
sp3000w/ perf guys15:59
timelessoh lol15:59
timelessit's only what, a month stale?15:59
sp3000about half16:00
hullfandansorry yet another noob question. How do I disconnect my ssh session to my 770.  I googled at that said ~. but that doesn't seem to work. I guess i need to disconnect before i ftp16:00
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atlas96and also, it is possible to have the core temp of my n810?16:00
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timeless^D (ctrl-d) would close a shell16:03
timelesskinda depends on what you mean16:03
timelessatlas96: /proc is your friend16:03
lardmanhullfandan: exit should work in the ssh session16:03
hullfandanoops, just closed that terminal16:03
lardmanhullfandan: quit for sftp16:03
hullfandannever mind :) thanks16:03
hullfandanls and cd aint working with sftp for some reason even though it has connected16:04
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lardmanls and cd work on the far side of the connection, lls and lcd on the near side16:05
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hullfandanlardman: thanks, that works16:07
skiburAnybody know what Internet Device will have a fighting chance with the N810?16:07
doc|homefighting chance?16:07
pupnikintel is trying to compete with new low power x86 platforms in 2008/200916:08
pupnikbut intel is spawn of hell, so i don't promote that shite16:08
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doc|homeI'm liking the openmoko neo1973/FreeRunner16:09
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pupnikyeah it's cool stuff for a phone.  very open.16:10
pupnikgreat screen...16:10
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hullfandanlardman: ok how do I run the file I have copied over. It's obviously not on the menu. Do I run it through x terminal on the 770?16:11
lardmanhullfandan: go to your ssh terminal16:11
lardmanhullfandan: and cd to the directory where you put the binary, then run it by prepending ./ to the name16:12
skiburyeah openmoko is nice16:12
timelesssp3000: so, any comments about
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|tbb|is there a home-applet for running commands like the applet for the upper bar  status-monitor(forgot the name) or so?16:14
hullfandanlardman: with a space after ./ or not16:14
hullfandanlardman ./appname or ./ appname16:15
hullfandanlardamn and do i have to do that via ssh. can I not just use x terminal on the 770 one I have copied it over?16:15
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sp3000timeless: looks ok to me16:17
* timeless had bad description for os2008 :(16:17
lardmanhullfandan: you can use the term on the 770 if you so desire16:18
lardmanhullfandan: whichever you do, you need the ./ and no space: ./appname16:19
hullfandanlardman: thanks for all you help. that didn't work but I know why. Human error.16:20
sp3000in other news, alarmd's readme has a problem with "It's".16:20
lardmanhullfandan: presuming you've not placed it in the path, you need to give a full path to the binary, and if you're in the same dir as the binary ./ is the path16:20
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* timeless chuckles16:20
timelessfile a bug ;-)16:21
simfoshoanyone got any experience with fuse on n80016:21
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hullfandanlardman: the ./ works. The app crached though as I need to rebuild it for ARMEL target. I forgot that step and just copied the x86 version i have been testing in sctratchbox :/pp16:21
timelesssp3000: actually, mxr does a very good job on that directory16:21
lardmanhullfandan: :) well hopefully now you're setup to go16:21
* timeless sighs16:22
lardmanhullfandan: running over ssh is easier imo as you can copy & paste, type, etc. far more easily + see more on the screen16:22
hullfandanlardman: Yes, thanks to you. I will report backwhen I have a killer game running on the 770 :D16:22
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lardmanhullfandan: :) good good16:22
timelesssp3000: load rpc-systemui.c16:24
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timelesswhere's alarm_dialog-dbus-names.h?16:24
thefoolis there a package for good ol locate for the ITs?16:25
* timeless nods16:26
timelesssure, but where?16:26
ustunozgurhi, sometimes microb doesn't recognize taps (clicks) and selects the link rather than going to that link. or sometimes the virtual  input appears, however the characters are not shown on the input boxes. Is it a common problem?16:26
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timelessustunozgur: somewhat16:26
timelessdo you have better luck clicking on the bottom of link text instead of the top?16:26
timelessas for the input thing, that sounds less familiar16:27
hendryhow does one get developer discount codes for the N810?16:27
timelesshendry: they've already been allocated16:27
sp3000travel back in time to apply16:27
timelesshrm, yeah, 1. get a good time machine16:27
hendrytimeless: oh right. when is the next round and how do I sign up for it?16:28
timelessdo you have a good supply of tea leaves?16:28
timelessif you do, you can practice predicting the answers to those and many other questions16:28
ustunozgurtimeless: the input bug is strange. I usually encounter that with google input boxes. The strange thing is this: I usually select some text to overwrite it. However, in that case, it doesn;t override it. When I click backspace, than it starts writing.16:28
timelessis a google input box, or
timelessime, google is different from the others16:29
lardmanIf the tea leaves work it might be worth winning the lottery and then just paying full price for the next one, you might even get it earlier that way ;) :D16:29
* timeless nods16:29
ustunozgurtimeless: google.16:30
timelessyou could even figure out which store will have them in stock16:30
sp3000it's certainly possible to focus a link but not navigate through it by making a drag gesture that starts on the link16:30
timelessand visit that one16:30
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sp3000and taps being seen as drag gestures isn't entirely impossible16:31
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ustunozgurcan you reproduce the bug?16:31
Juhazhendry, unless something drastically changes, the next round is when n900 or whatever it will be comes out.16:31
* sp3000 once got his contact applet, several cm away, to jump several cm by tapping a down arrow button on the feed applet ;)16:31
* timeless loads google.com16:31
ustunozgursearch for stg. then try to refine the search input.16:32
timelessjuhaz: predicting model numbers is even harder than predicting schedules16:32
timelessdon't assume 90016:32
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JuhazI don't, note the whatever. they don't matter anyway16:32
timelessustunozgur: ok, so i'm, "now what"16:33
timelessi'm not signed in16:33
ustunozgurok. search for something.16:33
timeless(note:, en-us)16:33
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jarlen_anyone got any experience with fuse on N800?16:33
timelesswhat input method am i using? FKB, VKB, HKB, BT?16:33
ustunozgurthen. in the results page, highlight the search term.16:33
ustunozgurthe virtual keyboard will pop up.16:33
ustunozgurthen write stg. it is not recognized.16:33
sKaBoyjarlen_, yes, it works fine :)16:34
ustunozgurif it is the case, click on backspace, then write stg. Now it will be recognized.16:34
timelessnote: i don't have word completion in vkb16:34
timelesshow do i "highlight" the search term?16:34
timelesstap, double-tap, tap+drag?16:34
simfoshoskaboy, are u the guy who made fuseport16:35
sp3000timeless: drag left seems to reproduce it16:35
ustunozgurtimeless: start from the right. then drag alittle.16:35
sp3000double tap not16:35
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ustunozgursp3000: right!16:35
sp3000usually the vkb would not come up in this case16:35
* timeless isn't getting a vkb16:35
timelessok, so you're triggering a selection+drag16:36
* timeless frowns16:36
* timeless can't get the vkb to come up broken16:36
sKaBoysimfosho, yes but it works only on os2007, for os2008 there are packages here: BUT DON'T INSTALL THEM! they'll render your n800 unbootable.. haven't looked at it, but you can just extract the module and libraries from your desktop. Sorry but i don't really have time right now to do a easy package like fuseport for os200716:36
timelesseither the vkb doesn't come up (average case), or it comes up and works (rare case)16:36
* sp3000 is at a hl=fi16:37
* timeless is afraid of hl=fi16:37
ustunozgurtimeless: dragging from the right to the left of the start doesn't help?16:37
timeless/ctcp sp3000 GPS16:37
sp3000I can't get drag selection happening on the initial load16:38
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timelessfirst drag select at hl=fi gave me a perfect selection, a vkb, and it worked16:38
sp3000but if I tap in the field (vkb appears) tap outside (vkb disappears) drag-select from right to left outside field (vkb appears) type (no input in field)16:38
hendryoh no, i forgot my root password. is there a default one?16:39
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|tbb|is it possible to trigger the connection manager to connect to irc or gmail from commandline?16:39
timelesshendry: yes, but it doesn't matter16:39
timelessyou can't use it in general16:39
timelessinfobot capture-root16:39
infobotrumour has it, capture-root is
timelesshendry: install sshd, install capture-root (follow instructions)16:39
ustunozgursp3000: so, as you suggested, double tap works. In that case, would this be a bug? Maybe it is intended so.  It is usually much easier for me to drag it from the right to select however.16:40
timelessustunozgur: figuring out what the ui spec says, what it means, and whether it makes sense are all very complicated problems16:41
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sp3000selection drags that end outside the text field are odd16:41
timelessoh, is this drag ending outside?16:41
timelessmy drags ended inside16:41
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ustunozgurbtw. the  drag from right works on yahoo.16:42
timelesstry disabling js and then using yahoo16:42
sp3000timeless: I don't really consider leftward drags in left-aligned fields selecting everything ending inside the field humanly possible16:43
timelessyou just don't have nails :)16:43
sp3000/I/ can do it fine ;)16:43
hendrytimeless: i've installed sshd before, i've must have changed the password and i've forgotten what i've changed it to16:43
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timelesshendry: if ssh+sshd are installed, capture-root is sufficient16:44
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ustunozgursp3000: btw i am a lefty, can it be the case that i assume dragging towards left more natural? or is it that the text ends there?16:44
sp3000(well, with a stylus)16:44
* timeless wonders what a stylus is16:44
timelessustunozgur: i'm a lefty too16:44
* timeless doesn't know of anyone who drags to the right16:45
* timeless should go survey some people16:45
sp3000ustunozgur: I'm sure everyone drags from right in this case because the drag start target is huge in that case and just one half character in the other case16:45
ustunozgursp3000: ok then, the verdict should be that it is a bug.16:45
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pupnikhah i'm being redirected to someone at nokia.de16:47
ustunozguranother issue: I use opera on the desktop and use search shortcuts like "g stg" or "w stg" for searches on google, wikipedia etc.16:47
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hendrytimeless: unable to install capture-root (running chinook btw)16:47
ustunozguris there a way to implement the same using microb? i am currently using opendns shorttcuts16:47
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ustunozgurhowever they dont work in every network I join.16:48
timelesshendry: application menu> tools>view log16:48
timelesssp3000: ok, someone managed to reproduce it for me here16:48
hendrytimeless: user/.ssh must exist16:48
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timeless hendry: you're using scratchbox?16:48
hendrytimeless: no, the N800 device itself16:49
timelessright, um, read the package description :)16:49
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timelessyou need to follow the steps in the description before you install :)16:49
* timeless is amazed that people don't read descriptions16:49
* timeless should start putting offers of tshirts into descriptions16:49
sikor_sxeanyone got a link handy for creating an svn repo at garage.maemo?16:50
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timelesssikor: it doesn't happen automatically?16:51
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sikor_sxei can't even seem to login to the shell16:52
sikor_sxeis it key-only?16:53
sikor_sxei can administer my project, but i cannot login16:53
sikor_sxeand i created it like a week ago16:53
timelessdid you enable svn?16:53
timelesswhich project?16:53
sikor_sxei wouldn't know where16:53
timelesswell, seems to indicate it exists16:54
sikor_sxewell i guess it's created then16:54
sikor_sxethen i just have to import it16:54
timelessi've always logged into garage using password (not key)16:54
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hendrythanks for your help btw timeless17:00
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* timeless frowns17:07
timelessbergie: do you know anything about garage?17:07
timelessgarage claims to host 469 projects, but my automated scripts can only find 384 svn's17:07
timeless383 actually, first line of the script is #/bin/sh :)17:08
Knirchtimeless: #!/bin/sh17:08
sikor_sxei got my svn up17:08
timelessknirch: whatever, i ran sh -x anyway :)17:08
timelesswhich is why i miscounted17:08
sikor_sxestill can't log into the shell, but whatever17:08
timelesssikor: i don't think there's supposed to be a shell17:09
timelesssikor: if you have a directory 'www' at the top level of the svn, it'll become the web server root17:09
timelessin general, you should use tags/ branches/ trunk/ www/17:09
sikor_sxei see17:09
Knirchjust pointing out that if that was the actual shebang, it's wrong :) (guess I could have typed that from the start instead)17:09
timelessstick work into trunk, web content in www/, and do useless copies into branches/17:09
timeless% head -1 /tmp/grab-garage-bits.sh17:10
timelessi could have copied the line, but i didn't17:10
Knirchthen it's all good :)17:10
timelesswell, it's not, since the script is -x17:10
timelesswhich is probably why i run it w/ sh -x :)17:11
* timeless adds a chmod to the fun17:11
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|tbb|sorry got disconnected, has anyone answered to my last question about connection manager applet17:12
ustunozgurwhy doesn't the application manager allow multiple apps to be installed? and it seems very slow and can even get stuck sometimes, leaving a process called "apt-worker" consuming %100 cpu. apt-get is fine yet the should be improved I guess. Right?17:12
ustunozgurthe gui, that is.17:13
timelesswhat do you mean multiple apps?17:14
fysaa limitation in the way the underlying database is managed I believe.  you cannot run more than one instance of apt simultaneously.17:14
timelessmultiselect on maemo is such a disaster, you really don't want to think about it17:14
ustunozgurtimeless: select more than one app at a time17:14
timelessignoring that, the install feedback for when something isn't installable is fairly bad17:14
fysaah, you want to checkmark them all and hit install once.17:14
timelessand conflicts involving installing multiple apps is probably "don't go there" territory17:14
ustunozgurfysa: no, you can't, howevetr if you do stg like apt-get install a b c it will install all three17:14
ustunozgurfysa: right17:15
timelesscheckboxes could be added17:15 has a component for application manager, you could ask for it as a red pill feature17:15
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timelesspersonally, what bothers me is that after installing something, i lose my place17:16
timelessif that didn't happen, i wonder if you'd still want this feature17:16
ustunozgurtimeless: probably, however this is my 5th day with the device and I enabled all the repositories on gronmayer.17:16
ustunozgurtimeless: right that bothered me17:16
fysaI think they kind of fixed that in os2008?  it scrolls back down to where you left off -- but I lose my place mentally.17:16
ustunozguri thought it was fixed however17:16
timelessit might be17:16
timelessit certainly was broken in 2007 :)17:16
timelessfor an end user definition of broken :)17:16
fysawaiting for some 5-10MB to download makes me forget what I was going to do next ;)17:16
timelessfysa: bah17:17
timelessfysa: you should probably use apt-get anyway17:17
fysayeah, I know ;)17:17
ustunozgurfysa: similarly I hate the unability to open links in background17:17
timelessthe real question is, what would a real end user be doing17:17
ustunozgurI hate wasting time waiting for the unresponsive microb.17:17
timelesshow often do you the end user want to install 5+ things at once?17:17
timelessustunozgur: what site(s)?17:18
timelessand have you disabled flash?17:18
* timeless hates wasting time w/ users who use flash17:18
ustunozgurtimeless: wikipedia for example.17:18
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timelesspick a url instead of a site17:18
ustunozgurSay, I am reading an article, then i click some links given however i still read the article itself.17:18
fysayou have experience with how maemo-launcher works, timeless?17:19
ustunozgurSo I right click open in new window then return back to the article17:19
timelessi wrote a patch that wasn't accepted, does that count? :)17:19
ustunozgurtimeless: with news sites as well17:19
fysait caches files(?) of certain applications?17:19
fysaso they launch more quickly?17:19
timelesswhat it really does is abuse fork()17:19
ustunozgurone usually skims all and then starts reading right?17:19
|tbb|timeless: after a fw upgrade17:19
timelessbasically most libraries in maemo are used by most applications17:19
fysaso the memory usage of maemo-launcher itself as shown in top is not representative of wasted memory?17:19
timelessso by having them loaded and initialized, the fork gets to keep that state17:20
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fysaand it's actually memory of a child process?17:20
ustunozgurtimeless: or for the rss reader too17:20
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Jaffare lardman_17:20
timelessfysa: i think you want to cat /proc/{pid}/cmdline17:21
timelessfor some random maemo-launcher17:21
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timelessalso keep in mind that top doesn't show processes17:21
timelessit shows threads17:21
timelessand all threads in a process share memory17:21
timelessso if the numbers look the same, they probably are the same, and don't count17:22
timelessnote that if you open a file picker dialog, you're going to trigger a couple of gnomevfs threads17:22
timelesswhich will increase the number of lines in top output17:22
fysamy concern is maemo-launcher's memory usage mixed with the browser wanting all memory (103%), leading to a condition where we have excessive swap usage that may hurt performance more than maemo-launcher is helping.17:22
timelesswell, for example17:23
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timelesstop listed a process named "maemo-launcher" and said pid 111017:23
timelesscat /proc/1110/cmdline17:23
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timelessit's not really "maemo-launcher", it's just because of the way fork and friends work that the process name in top is maemo-launcher17:24
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timelessin this case, it's really some stupid "input method"17:24
timeless(who needs input methods, why doesn't everyone use ssh!)17:24
ustunozguron a second thought, selecting multiple applications is not that much of a concern. However since the device is new, I wanted to test as much applications as I could in a short time, that bugged me for the first a few days. But now everything is settled, it is not that much of a problem, given the backup utility backs up the installed apps list too.17:24
ustunozgurI haven't tried that yet however .Does it simply keep the sources.list and dpkg selections?17:25
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fysathat's what I thought you meant, thanks for clearing it up17:25
timelessustunozgur: right initial install is arguably not worth the complexity for the average case17:25
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timelessustunozgur: it actually , at least when originally shipped /almost/ worked, but failed spectacularly17:26
ustunozguror does one need to backup .debs too?17:26
timelessbecause the restore doesn't enable the extras repo17:26
timelessyou can have the debs saved to the internal mmc117:26
timelessbut i suspect since it's talking to the repo, if the repo lists a different thing, you won't benefit from that17:27
|tbb|whats the name of connection-manager applet that one which is in the upper bar (green ball)?17:27
timelessbut it's not connection-manager related17:27
czrhey timeless17:27
timelesshi czr, you back in the scary world?17:27
czrno. still in la-la-land17:28
|tbb|is it possible to trigger it to disconnect or connect to the accounts17:28
czrstarting my 22 hour journey back tomorrow17:28
timelessbah, install deb and play w/ :)17:28
timelesstbb: that in generally won't affect your actual network connection17:28
timelesswhich is controlled by the wifi/phone indicator (called "connectivity" or icd)17:29
timelessczr: pleasant journey17:29
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czrtimeless, right :-) & thanks17:29
czrthree flights17:29
timelesswow, that's a lot, what's the path?17:29
czrample time at airports. what could be more pleasant :-)17:29
timelessrsync: connection unexpectedly closed (41769 bytes received so far) [sender]17:30
czrjax -> detroit -> amsterdam -> helsinki17:30
czrthere's also a flight from atl direct to helsinki but that'd mean 4 hours more driving from here and my chauffeurs didn't want to do that..17:30
ustunozgurtimeless: ok, thanks for the warning that extra repos don't work with backup.17:30
timelessustiunozgur: note, i have no idea if that still applies in the 50 release17:31
timelessit was blogged by the main dev as a sad goof17:31
timelessbut i don't know if he had a way to fix it17:31
* timeless is fairly certain it was a specified feature, and those things tend to be fairly hard to change17:31
timelessbasically if you flash, skip the restore, enable extras, and then restore, i think things probably should work17:32
timelessalthough, um... i haven't flashed yet :)17:32
ustunozgurin fact, given the multitude of repos I currently have, I am quite amazed that the device can still work without conflicts.17:32
ustunozgurbtw shouldn't it be easily done the manual way, i.e. backing up the sources.list and getting selecting with dpkg?17:33
jottpupnik: any new information from
timelessapplication manager treats sources.list as writeonly ;)17:33
pupnikyes they just called me17:34
pupnikthey hadn't gotten any info from nokia about the codes and just recently found out about it themselves17:34
|tbb|hmmh, havent found infos about that omniscience.17:34
timelessshows the files they actually use17:35
pupnikthey confirmed that they have not activated any codes, and the lady just informed me that she had no indication that the codes would *ever* be activated in germany17:35
scriptpupnik: *sigh*17:35
timelessfor those of you w/ mxr-maemo-org-dns17:35
jottpupnik: they seem to have good internal communications...17:35
czr|tbb|, you're supposed to know about it without searching..17:36
X-Fadepupnik: They are going to work. There are some companies that have made a deal with Nokia so that they can offer you a discount if you use their promo code..17:36
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lardmanJaffa: has yours turned up?17:37
lardmanJaffa: mine would have done had my doorbell been working17:37
fysais there an x86 maemo?17:37
X-Fadepupnik: And those generate more sales than we combined.17:37
pupnikX-Fade: ok if you have any info about what us germans should do, please let me know17:37
timelessfysa: what do you mean?17:37
X-Fadepupnik: No, I don't have any more info. But it will be fixed.. eventually..17:38
fysaI am putting together a touchscreen wall-mounted machine for the living room, and hildon would make a nice interface.17:38
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lardmanfysa: sounds cool17:38
jottpupnik: could you convince them to talk with finland (or some other authority) or do they just say, that they don't care?17:38
|tbb|czr ?17:39
czr|tbb|, the omniscience bit was a joke..17:39
pupnikjott: well they just became aware of the issue, but they don't drive the process.  it is up to nokia (fi) to implement, and the german shop was not informed of this stuff17:40
pupnikSo at least i found out one thing, it's not that has received instructions to implement the codes, and has just sat on the job.  (according to their accounts)17:42
fysa(coincidentally, x86 maemo would also prove a nice menlow OS)17:42
pupnikmenlow will eat batteries and get crap reviews because of it17:43
pupnikcompared to omap devices at least17:44
jottwell the question seems now: whom to contact at nokia (fi), so some kind of action will be taken?!17:44
fysabetter than running ubuntu at 200dpi ;)17:45
fysa(or worse)17:45
fysaI don't know what advances we'll see in the ARM camp, but the x86 is obviously marching toward smaller/lighter/more efficient and eventually it will get there.17:46
fysaif not this round, then the next or the one after..17:46
pupnikjott, there's not a lot we can do IMO.  Have you checked to see if your code works in any other european stores (IT, NL, BE)?17:46
czrfysa, depends on what you mean by advances. ARM has been designed for low power devices for ages.17:47
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czrfysa, if you want performance, you'll have hard time finding an ARM implementation that has been optimized for that.17:47
pupnikI'd be happy with a N810 from an english-layout country as well (UK... others?)17:47
fysaand while hildon+firefox run passably at 128MB w/400MHz, 1GHz+ w/1GB RAM would absolutely scream.17:47
czrx86 on the other hand has been designed to .. well.. I guess no one really knows anymore what it was designed for :-)17:47
jottpupnik: not yet. i guess nl would be the best option as they seem to deliver german keyboard layouts anway ;-)17:47
* timeless frowns17:47
* timeless can't figure out garage17:48
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|tbb|  so if thats correct what they writing, its more important for me how to disable it from commandline17:48
fysaindeed, czr17:48
* czr hears a garage door opening17:48
fysanot an intel fanboy or anything, but the market trend is obviously smaller/faster/more efficient -- there will be a point where x86 chipset is faster and more efficient than the current armel, there's no doubting that.  and when that happens, the hildon-UI will be perfectly usable on any linuxable tablet with a similar touchscreen/display dpi.17:50
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jottpupnik: question is: do they deliver to germany at all - and how much shipping costs would we have to pay...17:50
zoranfysa, talking about small factor device?17:51
czrwell, fysa, intel also has strongarm :-)17:51
fysathat's what menlow is..17:51
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lardmanI thought they'd sold their arm stuff?17:52
fysathey have 1.7GHz x86 using 4 watts under load, less than a watt at idle17:52
fysaI believe.17:52
jottpupnik: and.. how what kind of warranty we could claim...17:53
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czrless than watt idle is not very good though17:53
fysastop talking about tech shit17:53
czrI'd like to see a almost static design :-)17:53
fysawe're not arguing technical abilities of chipsets..17:54
czrI much prefer silicon based shit to the carbon based one :-)17:54
czrtrue :-)17:54
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fysa^^ that's what my point is.17:54
* czr nods17:54
fysathat device is begging for hildon.  hildon seems slightly too heavy for the devices we have it on now, but it would likely be a dream..   and this year we are going to have a load of people wanting to run Linux on those devices.17:55
fysathe question is, does maemo want them?17:55
fysaI don't think they do..17:55
fysabut they will want maemo.17:55
czryou'd be better asking that question from gnome mobile I guess17:55
czrcanonical too17:55
fysaI'm hoping Nokia has some ideas for faster armel chipsets..17:56
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pupnikOMAP3430 can co up to over 1 GHZ17:56
lardmanit'll need bigger batteries in that case17:57
lardmanwhy do you need a faster processor anyway?17:57
pupnikyes there are two varieties of OMAP3430 fab17:57
fysaor a new processor..17:57
lardmanor enable the powervr... :)17:57
lardmandecoding HD movies?17:58
pupnikfor the evil craptacular websites, and for the bloaty stuff users want to port from pc land, and for high-def 800x480 media17:58
fysatwo years later, we're almost due..17:58
fysahaha, yeah17:58
fysathere is a whole world of bloaty goodness waiting to be hogged17:58
lardmanpupnik: the bloaty stuff needs to be disuaded somehow17:58
fysajava vm17:59
fysatabs ;)17:59
lardmanfysa: why can't a Java vm run on it as is?17:59
pupniklardman: i agree that well-coded is much better, but high performance hardware opens up more doors, and with the 3430 you don't sacrifice battery life17:59
fysajava vm could/may run fine now, no question -- just associating things with bloaty18:00
lardmanpupnik: perhaps, but only if you run at the current clock I imagine18:00
fysaa well designed system will only use the power required by the current load18:00
fysaI want to be able to run 800MHz when my application demands, because obviously I don't care about battery life at that moment or I wouldn't be running it. ;)18:01
czrfysa, all the advances in speed will be used by yet more bloated software, so don't worry, you'll never find your grail ;-)18:01
pupniksure, but as lardman suggests, if the apps that don't need much cpu hog a lot of cpu, they'll be wasting battery18:01
lardmanyeah, but if almost no sw needs the full speed, then they'll go for something cheaper and slower18:01
pupnikman that is some real old news fysa :)18:01
* czr remembers his first x86, running at a whopping 10 MHz18:02
fysaOMP3430 is 65nm18:02
fysamaybe we will see a 45nm version.18:02
czran instructions took many cycles to complete anyway18:02
ustunozgurdoes booting from mmc really make the device faster?18:02
ustunozgurwhat are the disadvantages?18:03
fysa"# OMAP3430 - ARM Cortex A8 + ISP (Image Signal Processor) + PowerVR SGX 535 2D/3D Graphics Accelerator + IVA2+ (Imaging and Video Accelerator). Will be manufactured in 65 nm and later in 45 nm."18:03
czr"for really small people"18:03
lardmanISP sounds interesting, in addition to IVA218:03
fysaOMAP3420 (expected in 2008) - ARM Cortex A8 + ISP (Image Signal Processor) + PowerVR SGX 535 2D/3D Graphics Accelerator + IVA2 (Imaging and Video Accelerator). Will be manufactured in 65 nm and later in 45 nm.18:03
lardmanbut I doubt we'll see anything using those until the chip is >5 years old and there's some information available about it18:04
fysaso..  there's your Nokia timeline. ;)18:04
lardmananything Linux that is18:04
fysaoh, that's a different core CPU?18:05
lardmanstill arm just next gen18:06
fysaARM Cortex A8 ~= ARM11?18:06
fysabyte compatible?18:06
lardmanyes, they tend to be backward compatible18:06
kulvearm11 == arv6, cortex == armv718:06
tank-manustunozgur, i think the advantages are being able to have a bigger root partition18:07
tank-manto install more apps18:07
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ustunozgurtank-man: doesn't constant access corrupt sd's?18:07
tank-mani dont think so, where are you getting that info?18:08
lardmanSlightly OT, but anyone got a dlink DNS-323?18:08
ustunozgurtank-man: well b/c sd's have a maximum read/write cycle no?18:10
tank-manwell isnt the internal memory flash as well?18:11
pupnikand you can replace cards18:13
ustunozgurok, so it seems to be worth the effort.18:14
michele_does martin grimme hang on here?18:14
michele_mediabox's author18:16
Jaffalardman: wife hasn't mentioned it arriving, but I used the cheap delivery18:16
Jaffapycage is his nick, if he did IIRC18:16
Jaffainfobot: seen pycage18:16
infobotJaffa: i haven't seen 'pycage'18:16
michele_The nickname [pycage] is not registered18:17
michele_guess not18:17
zoranJaffa talks to AI18:17
lardmanJaffa: you'd better make sure you get to it before her!18:17
fysalardman: I don't own one, but played with one last week..18:17
lardmanfysa: I'm after a NAS which I can run the Topfield link sw on, but also need to support a wifi usb dongle which that one doesn't appear to do (yet)18:18
fysaeven with the uclinux?18:19
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zoranlinksys nslu2?18:19
fysano experience with topfield..18:19
lardmanfysa: not a standard kernel, would need some hacking18:20
lardmanzoran: I'd prefer to go for internal HDDs18:20
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fysayou check Netgear?18:20
zoranah, they have newer version, with inner hdd now18:20
lardmanfysa: it's just a command line app, all i need is to be able to ssh into the box from the www18:20
fysathey were doing more Linuxy stuff on some of their newer NAS.18:21
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lardmanAh, Netgear SC101 (IDE but still)18:21
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fysaoh, that's higher end.18:22
lardmanyeah, not sure I have 4Tb of mp3s just yet :)18:23
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fysaBuffalo Tech also maybe18:23
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lardmanhmm, perhaps just some kernel hacking on the Dlink one, it does look like it ticks all the other boxes18:23
fysasame/similar to NSLU2 but has internal drive?18:24
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fysathey may have a newer release of it..18:25
lardmanI'm sure I looked at that and it's hard in the uk to get a kuro and the normal Buffalo one isn't supported as the chipset changed. iirc18:25
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lardmanah well, thanks for the suggestions, time to go to visit the ups depot and collect the N81018:25
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sikor_sxewhat is the easiest way to take screenshots on os2008?18:30
mgedminsikor_sxe: instal load-applet18:32
|tbb|anyone knows how to control osso-applet-presence from shell?18:33
mgedminwhat replaced osso-screenshot-tool in os2008?18:33
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ustunozgursikor_sxe: btw load-applet puts the screenshots in the images folder.18:34
mgedminright, and it *overrides existing ones*18:34
mgedminit starts numbering from 0 every time you restart18:35
sp3000mgedmin: the sdk repo has a 'screenshot-tool'18:35
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mgedminis it a good idea to use the sdk repo directly on the device?18:35
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* mgedmin thinks the answer is either "no" or "yes, if you're careful"18:35
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* sp3000 thinks that's probably about the right answer range18:36
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sp3000I just fetch individual debs if I want something from the sdk repo on the device18:36
sp3000but that's a kind of weird situation18:37
timelesssp3000: got a minute?18:37
* timeless is trying to figure out what to do when about:contributors has dozens of entries18:38
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* dhd just ordered an N81018:38
Robot101good choice18:42
zoranbmw 725 is even better18:43
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mgedminbut does it fit into a pocket?18:44
* timeless frowns18:44
zoranmgedmin, yes, if it is big enough18:45
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* czr imagines zoran's pants18:45
timelesssp3000: try loading that page in fx18:46
timelessselect all, right click, view selection source18:46
sp3000head is in selection?18:48
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timelesssp3000: try
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timeless(the url grew a bit long...)18:51
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* sp3000 isn't sure what to make of that18:57
sp3000it only included the text node?18:57
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timelesssp3000: <script /> isn't legal18:59
timelessso the parser complains18:59
sp3000ah, that18:59
timelessok, fun problem18:59
timelesshow do i encode an appid into an id field?18:59
timelessor do i not bother?18:59
czrencode an apple instead!19:00
czrapples are tasty19:00
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pupnikcool mplayer on the nokia can do msnbc live streams?  mms://
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melmothis it me or si there no gpe calendar for os2008 (yet?)19:33
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LoCusFthere is19:38
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skiburwhat is the meaning of life today?19:56
czr17 + 23.19:56
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czrneh. 42 is a myth19:58
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CrashandDiehey everyone20:00
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lcuk_2hey crash (and everyone else)20:01
* lcuk_2 returns from hibernation20:01
CrashandDieman I can't wait to get my tablet20:02
lcuk_2you havent got one at all yet?20:02
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CrashandDieThere is one at school I'll be using for dev20:03
CrashandDiebut the usage is kinda limited20:03
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CrashandDieWell, I can do whatever I want with it, but at the end of the day, it's going back into its box, so...20:04
lcuk_2if your doin dev on school one what are u gonna do on home one20:04
CrashandDiewell other sort of dev :)20:04
CrashandDieand just having fun with it20:04
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lcuk_2in the week before i got my 810 i was looking for a dev env20:04
CrashandDieI already have 2 laptops, but one is heavily wired it's a pain to move it20:04
lcuk_2i signed up for trolltech qt evaluation thingy20:04
lcuk_2and today t work i got a call from them20:05
CrashandDiewhat gives ?20:05
lcuk_2"hi its blahblah from cold northern country, how are you doing, are you ready to buy yet"20:05
lcuk_2me: (sheepishly) ermmmmmm i evaluated it and decided on python + gtk20:06
* lcuk_2 never even got to install it 20:06
mgedminpygtk rules20:06
lcuk_2indeed it does20:06
CrashandDienever been a big python fan20:06
CrashandDiewell, never got into it so20:06
penguinbaitme either20:07
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CrashandDieis there a java port for maemo ?20:07
CrashandDieor c# ?20:07
mgedminjava: probably not, c# (or, more specifically, mono): maybe20:08
lcuk_2dun think so properly - mono works ive heard but not fantastically20:08
lcuk_2hang on, i have seen a java package20:09
* lcuk_2 sees a lot and has a google like brain20:11
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CrashandDielcuk_2, could you then draw me all the pictures you've seen meeting the keyword "hello", order them by size, and alert me whenever there's something new you see with "hello" in it?20:16
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lcuk_2no but my gf is a librarian and loves ordering and arranging things20:17
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lcuk_2and does google order by size?20:17
lcuk_2"select from boobies order by cupsize desc"20:18
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CrashandDielcuk_2, LIMIT 20, 10, else you're going to down the whole server... Must be quite a lot of pics20:23
scriptlcuk_2: your girlfriend is a librarian? - ha .. sounds like xkcd ;)20:24
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* CrashandDie shivers everytime someone called simon joins IRC20:24
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jonekCrashandDie: there are multiple Java ports for internet tablets. See phoneMEAdvanced and Sebstian Manckes Jalimo.20:32
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CrashandDiejonek, I will, thanks20:32
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CordGermany: discount codes work20:58
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pupnikhooray!  thanks to whoever put in overtime today! :)20:59
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ywwgRight now when I create a .desktop file for my application it always shows up in the "Extras" category.  How do I get it to show up under "Internet?"  I tried setting the "Categories" field in the .desktop file but that didn't do it21:04
skiburcreating a startup screen for the nokia21:06
skiburmaemo is debian21:06
inzywwg, there's a program you can call in your postinst that shows a dialog which allows the user to choose the category21:07
inzywwg, you could also create a program that uses libhildon(menu|desktop) to move it ;)21:07
jsmithAny way to add additional categories?21:07
ds3is it possible for a BTPROTO_SCO socket to work on any of the 3 devices?21:07
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* jsmith stops lurking long enough to ask an amateur question...21:08
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inzjsmith, remember that you can only make first impression once ;)21:09
ywwginz: thanks, I'll look around for those apis21:09
inzjsmith, no pressure ;)21:09
jsmithinz: It's all good... I'm just happy to be the proud owner of a shiny new N81021:10
ywwginz: I don't suppose you know of the name of that program I can call from postinst?21:11
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mgedminywwg: check the app developer's guide on maemo.org21:12
mgedminor look in /var/lib/packages/nameofpackage.postinst if you remember a package that uses it21:12
mgedminbut bookmarking the maemo guide is a good idea in any case21:12
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Robin__Hello Everybody21:22
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Robin__Anyone there online atm/21:28
Robin__I mean, awake?21:28
sibbewtf... is the bootup progress bar just fake thingie with 10sec timeout?21:29
Robin__do you hace a nokia n819?21:29
jga23is there anything for maemo that will sync with google spreadsheets?  in microb I can't scroll, so it's pretty much unusable21:29
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sibbefb-progress -l $IMGDIR/$LOGO -g $IMGDIR/$BAR $SECS &21:29
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jottthanks to the ones informing the right people at about the discount codes! and thanks to nokia too ;-) *just ordered*21:31
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Robin__Do I have a terminal if I buy the n81021:32
Robin__and can I compile my own binarys? so I can run scapy and xterm?21:33
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Robin__really? So I hve a Terminal when I buy it?21:33
CrashandDieH4X !21:34
CrashandDieEstimated delivery: Jan 10, 2008 by 6:00 PM21:34
Robin__So I can do wget gcc and wget scrapy.arm?21:34
bill2or3you can cross compile stuff, using a pc.21:34
bill2or3you can't compile stuff natively right on the device. (at least not easily)21:34
Robin__Yea, ok Ill compile using my Gentoo box21:35
Robin__But I can put xterm on there?! :)21:35
bill2or3it comes with.21:35
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bill2or3uses busybox for the shell.21:35
CrashandDiewhat the media center program for maemo ?21:36
CrashandDiejaleno or something21:36
Robin__Ah, ok cool :)21:36
CrashandDiecanola :)21:36
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Robin__Where can I find the Terminal so I can see it when I am in the store?21:36
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bill2or3it's under 'utilities', afair.21:39
bill2or3scroll to the bottom of the menu.21:39
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Robin__THANKS :D21:40
bill2or3no problem.21:40
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pupniksuddenly i am happy!21:52
k-sanyone looked at lightmediascanner?21:53
pupnikI feel like a kid whose hot dog got stolen by a dog, and who then gets a replacement by the nice hotdog salesman. :D :D :D21:53
jottpupnik: you also had a full discount? :)21:53
pupniksuddenly i'm motivated to do some hacking21:54
* jott too :)21:54
pupnikhahaha.  i am such simple creature21:54
jottincentives always work ;)21:54
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nomispupnik: does the german shop work now?22:07
nomiscool. /me orders22:07
* pupnik sings in wavering off-key22:08
pupnik~Join us now and share the software.  You'll be free, hacker. You'll be free-e-e-e-e!"  :D22:08
* lcuk throws a boot at pupnik22:08
* mardi__ sticks fingers in ears ;)22:08
lcukpup, gether you got a nice discount then22:09
* lcuk wonders just how much i can save by singing and hacking also22:10
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nomis[x] ordered. Yay122:20
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ustunozgurI recently bought a N800 miniSync Retractable Sync and Charge Cable but it just stopped charging. When I plug it in, a notification saying "not charging" appears. Anyone with a similar experience?22:29
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glasswhat you're sticking it into?22:30
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dhdlardman: hello!22:31
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ustunozgurwell, retracting the cable solved my problem :) seems that the cable got mixed up.22:41
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SpekTrumBashhey i gotsss a nokia22:58
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SpekTrumBashall bein the skreenz a lil brusied22:58
astro76ustunozgur: mixed up? that doesn't sound good22:58
SpekTrumBashand the sime card tasted like k@ktis fewd22:58
astro76ustunozgur: is that the boxwave cable?22:59
SpekTrumBashits all purplier bio gammetic22:59
SpekTrumBashcan u flash my nokia ?!22:59
SpekTrumBashimgonnna exlose22:59
SpekTrumBashu feel22:59
SpekTrumBashx mas comes22:59
SpekTrumBashto never22:59
SpekTrumBashid not22:59
SpekTrumBashnot id22:59
SpekTrumBashex fi delcko22:59
SpekTrumBashex phi on felm23:00
SpekTrumBashPEL ! f23:00
SpekTrumBashdamn frenchies23:00
SpekTrumBasho bab dont u cry23:00
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SpekTrumBashroger incoming23:00
ustunozgurastro76: the cable rolled on itself, there was a nod.23:00
SpekTrumBashcls alwsys clarsszz23:01
dragornwell that's behaviour you could stop at any time23:01
ustunozgurastro76: it is this one. works currently.23:01
|tbb|f*ck off23:02
astro76/ignore SpekTrumBash23:02
akvignore SpekTrumBash23:02
Mouseyastro76: i'm SO ahead of you23:02
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dragornit's almost entertaining, like trying to decipher sanskrit23:03
SpekTrumBashSEMI TRUE23:03
SpekTrumBashi was hoping more ov a horizontal flood23:03
jsmithShall we try to get an operator to kick him?23:03
SpekTrumBashand higher burst speed acuracy23:03
SpekTrumBashwent all blarm23:03
SpekTrumBash* = ?23:03
SpekTrumBashdefine K23:03
SpekTrumBashwent all blarm'23:03
Cordmy /ignore works.23:03
Mouseyjsmith: just ignore him23:03
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dragornjsmith: I was just looking for who to bug, actually, but then he went away23:04
GeneralAntilles /stats p23:04
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jsmithdragorn: Perfect timing, eh?23:04
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dragornGeneralAntilles: Ah.  I was checking the freenode site. :P  One of my goals in life is to remain far away from irc nonsense. :P23:05
GeneralAntillesWas trying to rouse a staffer in another channel from idling.23:05
Palintheusfreenode staff isn't added on the access list so they couldn't do anything unless it warrented a kline23:06
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astro76ustunozgur: yeah that's the one I was thinking of23:08
|tbb|dragorn could i ask u something ?23:09
astro76ustunozgur: knots shouldn't effect it, sounds like there's a break23:09
pupnikknots media server?23:09
GeneralAntillesIn a cable, pupnik.23:10
* mikem23 is about to flash his n80023:10
ustunozgurastro76: I actually don't know. The cable was too long, so I retracted it and then it worked. It had not been working for the last two days.23:10
mikem23any advise?23:10
mikem23err advice, even?23:10
GeneralAntillesEr, backup what you've got and then flash away?23:10
ustunozgurastro76: And I pulled out the cable to see whether it works, and I couldn't, happily, reproduce the problem23:11
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mikem23I used the built in backup, and I don't think I've done anything too major that wouldn't be covered by that.  I'll have to re-root and reinstall a few things23:11
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|tbb|anyone knows if there is a keyboard reassign gui for n810 out there allready?23:14
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lcuktbb ive seen a few ppl using xmodmap and another lower level key mod thing but nothing gui23:14
lcukwhat you after changing?23:14
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* lcuk wants a tab key (will use central d pad click)23:17
lcuktbb - take a look here for some ideas
|tbb|so then i have to use xmodmap also to add tab23:18
lcukthis guy used a 2key shift something combo for tab, thats no good for me, but the D pad fire button is about as useful as a chocolate fireguard where it is so it might as well become a tab key23:19
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lcukwhen i started looking last night i couldnt edit the file they mentioned in another post on the same site because i think i need root (/usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-44)23:20
|tbb|i found the keyboard as enter also usefull23:20
lcuknever touched it23:21
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lcukrarely have the kb open unless i am typing23:21
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lcuki think its poorly designed and they could have made better use of the space by leaving the D outside23:21
lcukive seen one with just a nipple outside which looks nice and doesn't waste space23:22
v-vHello, Is there anyone using exaille on os2008? If yes does the volume bar/slider works normally or it just turns the audio on and off near the 50% position?23:22
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|tbb|lcuk you also could add shortcuts trough bluetooth keyboard shortcuts under control panel23:23
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lcukthought that was just for a bt keyboard so ignored it23:23
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lcukill have a tinkle later23:23
* lcuk has lost his 810 to a majong playing goddess23:24
Cordpraise your local gods!23:24
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sparrwim side-grading from a 770 to a gp2x soon.  i wish nokia would realize that even modest gaming-layout controls on a device would double its market.  give me a decent d-pad and a couple of buttons on the other side of the screen!23:25
pupnikyaay sparrw23:25
mikem23the output of the flash utility looks good, but the tablet does not seem to be rebooting automatically as the doc says23:25
lcukits a bit lat for that sparrw lol23:25
pupnikof course the gp2x is useless for web and productive stuff23:25
lcukpush for the next model, but youre meant to speak up before they releae it ;)23:25
mikem23I got the "Finishing flashing...done" message23:25
GeneralAntillesmikem23: did you do -R?23:26
mikem23GeneralAntilles, yes23:26
lcukgp2x is same cpu isnt it? except with drivers for the 3d?23:26
sparrwpupnik: i disagree, but thats subjective.23:26
GeneralAntillescapital R?23:26
pupnikno no no, no 3d, older Arm920 cpu23:26
sparrwlcuk: gp2x has two older ARM cores.  no 3d hardware, but decent software 3d23:26
mikem23safe to reboot manually, you think23:26
sparrwbut thats moot.  what it has thats important is a good d-pad and buttons laid out for gaming23:26
mikem23I'd hate to brick it23:26
GeneralAntillesAt worst, you'll just have to flash again.23:27
pupnikyeah for open-source gaming and emulation gp2x is great sparrw23:27
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sparrwi can do web and productivity stuff on the gp2x with a little effort.  i cant game on the maemo devices at all23:27
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GeneralAntillesGetting good Wiimote drivers would be fairly awesome.23:27
pupnikoh right, web on a gp2x23:27
sparrwi had a gp2x.  ported some games, wrote some demos.  then it got stolen.  getting a new one soon.23:27
deejoeany network on that thing?23:27
lcukgen - wiimote is supportable now isnt it?23:27
* lcuk read something23:27
sparrwgp2x has unpowered usb host, you can do ethernet or wifi with that and some power23:28
|tbb|ive add fn+Enter which poll screen to fullsize and back23:28
sparrwit USED to have usbnet client, but thats gone in the new version23:28
|tbb|fn+backspace shows  desktop23:28
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lcuktbb - is that with the bluetooth editor thing23:29
lcukor xmod?23:29
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|tbb|ctrl + dpad opens menu23:29
lcukwill try it23:29
lcuksounds simpler than root and hack23:30
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Taksparrw: we could use more emulator and game porters... ;-)23:30
* lcuk vanishes23:30
lcukcyas later and ta for info23:30
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lcukrhvcvcvxgvfgyryf         rujrhujedhureuyhr4uhrhyrhyfgyyryryryryfhfhnnfnvhcfbvvxgdhfffvn cfncndndndhdhdhdhdhdhdhhdhdhshxgsgdggdggdgggcgdsgdgsgdstddgdhdhddjdhdhdd23:32
Cordlcuk: want to be ignored too?23:32
lcukoh god23:32
|tbb|hmmh next flooder23:32
lcuksorry... 4 year old23:32
* lcuk dragged him off23:33
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lcukhe wants to copy his dad :D he was sat on my knee23:33
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Cordlcuk: send him/her to bed. mine are sleeping too.23:33
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zetheroois there a way that I can download maps from Google Street onto my Linux laptop and then transfer them to my N800 for mapper to use?23:33
lcukwhere do you think i vanished to - its bed time for both of them except one excaped23:33
zetheroocause it takes too bloody long for mapper to download them23:34
Cordlcuk :-)23:34
|tbb|4 years old means much older as SpekTrumBash23:34
* lcuk invests in a lasoo23:34
Takrailgun works equally well23:34
lcuklol thats a bit messy23:35
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lcukanyway, prefer portal gun23:35
Takeh, just turn off the gibs23:35
Takzetheroo: dunno, sorry23:36
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GeneralAntillesNo, not currently, zetheroo.23:39
Takbuon giorno23:39
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ustunozgurlcuk: i showed the device to my gf for the first time yesterday. she kept playing mahjong for an hour :)23:42
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inzustunozgur, don't install sgt-puzzles on it23:43
shackaninz: sgt-puzzles doesn't install for me on 200823:43
ustunozgurlnz: well seeing that she liked the device a lot, I installed all the games I found :)23:43
inzshackan, oh, wonder what I've done wrong then...23:44
ustunozgurand after that, she asked for an ipod touch :)23:44
shackaninz: I'm wondering what *I* did wrong :D23:44
inzshackan, I mean what I did wrong when making the package, not when installing it ;)23:45
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halleyustunozgur, told her that itouch doesn't do that?23:45
inzI guess I'll have to charge "my" N800 and see what's wrong with it...23:46
inzWell, maybe tomorrow...23:46
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ustunozgurhalley: no :) If I told it, she would take my n800.  the strange thing is, the first time she got hold of it, she asked "does it have multitouch?" :) quite a geeky gf I have.23:47
zetherooGeneralAntilles: but how is it possible in Windows then?23:47
GeneralAntillesIt's not.23:48
GeneralAntillesThat was for 1.x23:48
GeneralAntillesWhich used a folder db for maps23:48
GeneralAntilles2.x uses a real db for maps.23:48
|tbb|its multitouch with one hand she can touch n800 the other she can touch you23:48
halleyustunozgur, does she know what multitouch really means for an interface?23:49
ustunozgurno she just heard iphone had multitouch and it was great :)23:49
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inzustun, that sounds totally anti-geeky23:50
inzustun, if a geek heard something they were interested in was "cool", they'd browse 'nuff to get a good grasp of the concept (at least)23:51
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ustunozgurinz: well not trying to be chauvinistic, it was actually geeky not geek for a woman to ask such a question if her area of interest is not computer related. but then again, I won't say I have bias about my gf.23:53
ustunozgur+ve bias that is23:53
|tbb|inz do you know how i can control the presence applet from shell for example?23:53
lcukust, my gf turned her nose up at iphone/pod touch - all because she couldn't type on it - "it doesnt feel right and it keeps gettin it wrong"23:53
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inz|tbb|, no idea, probably through D-Bus23:54
* Tak try to decide whether to join significant-other-bragathon23:54
lcukher thumbs literally have smoke coming off them when she txts from her phone23:54
inz|tbb|, I think it's quite normal telepathy stuff, you could try to see if they provide some nice API23:54
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Cordlcuk: she's hot? ;-)23:54
skiburfinished with the background23:55
skiburlet me know what you all think23:56
lcukcord, mind out of the gutter23:56
lcuksomething tech related - why does internettablettalk (a site designed for talking about/with tablets) have the biggest pictures and graphics of any forum i have ever used?23:56
Takthat is a good question23:57
Takthis xmas, I was out of town and hit ITT from my 770 - it was painful23:57
lcuki dread clicking onto it23:57
GeneralAntillesClassic style23:58
lcuki think even slashdot rendered quicker (sometimes)23:58
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elbwhy do forums have graphics23:58
elband why to the SUCK SO BAD23:58
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elbI could probably come up with a worse format for group discussion if I tried, but it would take me a while23:59
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Takyeah, I have classic style, but I have to log in first...23:59
lcukyou just made me think of something23:59
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lcukmy NIT is awful at startup cos its blindingly white23:59
lcukdo these startups just go in place23:59
lcukwould like to change and use yours if thats ok23:59

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