IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-12-29

blackd0tsibbe: That's weird. I keep getting errors in omap2_mcspi.c and board-n800-camera.c and few other files00:00
blackd0tAll seem to be related to undefined functions00:00
* Mousey huggles missing .h files00:01
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blackd0tI think that they may've made this kernel more compatible with n810 than n80000:01
blackd0tI can't compile it even when running with default n800_defconfig00:02
sibbei used the foo_242_bar config file00:02
blackd0tAhh the nokia one, ok I'll try that. Maybe this is the key00:02
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sibbemaybe the n800_defconfig is/was for OS2007?00:05
blackd0tI do have OS2007 still00:05
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sibbeweird then00:05
blackd0tYou meant OS2006?00:05
sibbei'm using chinook sdk, os200800:06
sibbethe kernel source urls given here were for chinook00:06
blackd0tRight, I'm using chinook as well00:07
blackd0tBut chinook is not for OS2008 only?00:07
sibbei'm not sure about that00:07
blackd0tWell it shouldn't matter. It should still compile with no problems.00:07
sibbethat's true00:08
sibbe yeah this tells to use bora and n800_config00:08
blackd0tOk, it's for different kernel version though00:09
blackd0tSo I think you're right that I should try the other defconfig file which they used in 4.x tutorial00:09
e-squizosibbe: it worked! thanks!00:10
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blackd0tOk I think that did they job, I saw that it parsed the board-n800-camera.c file correctly now :)00:12
sibbethere really should be / clone for maemo repositories...00:12
Mouseyand beryl00:14
Mousey*ahem* i meant compiz-fusion..00:14
Mouseytoo late, joke ruined00:15
blackd0tHah, I remember when used slackware few years ago and I had to install EVERYTHING from sources. That was hell ;)00:15
* Mousey shuts the heck up00:15
blackd0tsibbi: Do you usually test the new kernel image on n800 with the flasher before actually flashing the device?00:18
sibbeblackd0t, no.. but i've flashed the kernel only twice or so00:20
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sibbehmm.. oh! the flasher utility has kernel command line option00:21
blackd0tI see, the compilation worked with no problems, I tested the new kernel with the test feature and the progress bar went to 100%, pause for few seconds and reboot00:21
sibbe --boot, -b [arg]              Boot the kernel with optional cmdline00:21
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blackd0tSo I don't know if that's the test function that is broken or the kernel image00:22
sibbewell i guess that the kernel just won't work with os200700:22
blackd0tAh, that sucks :/00:23
blackd0tI'm afraid switch to os2008 as I fear that kismet won't work that well00:23
blackd0tI read on forums that people are having real problems with running kismet for longer than 3 minutes and on my config it works great00:24
e-squizosibbe: which sink does one use instead of alsasink (which also seems to be unavailable?)00:24
blackd0tIs it worth to upgrade os2007 to os2008?00:24
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sibbee-squizo dunno.. only used gstreamer on x86. try gst-inspect0.10 | grep sink (or gst-inspect) on the commandline?00:26
sibbethere's no aisleriot yet on os2008...00:27
sibbescummvm works tho :))00:27
blackd0t:) I guess I'll install maemo 3.2 then00:27
blackd0tBut if I compiled the 2.6.18 kernel with maemo 4.0 it should be fine as well00:28
blackd0tsibbe: Do you know where I can find it?00:28
sibbeyeah i think so00:28
blackd0tI tried searching for it, but with no luck00:28
sibbetry the same url and change chinook -> bora? :)00:28
* Mousey is sad and just wants xchat00:29
Mousey[and freeciv and wesnoth[00:29
blackd0tHah, ok found it :) It was hidden among other apps :)00:29
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blackd0tFunny because I looked here before ;)00:30
sibbethe directory layout seems to be a bit different00:30
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K`zan_n800Appl,ications are stored in / right?  If so I am at 73%.  Would be nice if that would use the SD card.00:38
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dospodyea it would be00:39
K`zan_n800Not sure what the point og huge SD cards is, really :-).00:40
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K`zan_n800Maemo mapper uses the internal for maps I think, so that helps.00:40
K`zan_n800Gonna order one of the 8G cards anyway, I think.00:41
dospodi only got 2 2gig cards00:41
K`zan_n800And get rid of a dozen of the media players :-).00:42
K`zan_n8004G Internal and 1G external here.  Robbed my camera :-).00:43
K`zan_n800And, I think some of the games, most of them are work rather than fun anyway.00:43
pauliukasI hate you N800 people :-P00:44
pauliukasI'm here stuck with a 770.00:44
pauliukasI'm using the 64MB MMC that cae with it, no SD port either.00:45
K`zan_n800LOL, I *almost* went with thre 770, the n800 has no protection.00:45
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K`zan_n800Only thing that killed it was the RSD cards.00:46
K`zan_n800Still not entirely sure I did the right thing.00:46
K`zan_n800Maybe if the apps catch up, the repositories get fixed and 2008 gets stable...00:47
K`zan_n800I'm sticking with ffhe original 2008 for a while.00:48
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K`zan_n800pauliukas: The reduced size SD cards.00:48
pauliukasyeah, that stuff.00:49
K`zan_n800Expensive, small and hard to find :-(.00:49
K`zan_n800So I went with the n800...00:49
K`zan_n800Still looking for a case I like for this.00:50
pauliukasIt doesn't have a metal cover thing like the 770?'00:50
K`zan_n800Used the one it came with for my glasses :-).00:50
K`zan_n800Nope, no protection at all.00:50
pauliukasoh wow that's sad.00:50
K`zan_n800Main reason it stays here on the desk with the BT keyboard.00:50
pauliukasI carry my 770 with me all the time and I love the metal screen cover.00:50
pauliukasMine is so abused that it looks like brushed alluminum.00:51
pauliukasHey man, you got twice the RAM I got and a 100MHz faster processor.00:51
K`zan_n800That and no PIM I can sync to anything useful to me, so I keep lugging the palm :-(.00:51
pauliukasI use the... I don't know how's it called.00:51
K`zan_n800Yep, it does have that.00:51
pauliukasThey got a Palm emulator too00:51
K`zan_n800@ SD card slots too.00:52
pauliukasI'm waiting for BT keyboards to drop prices though.00:52
pauliukasI think I'll be getting one when it will reach lower prices.00:52
K`zan_n800Garnet sucks overall, but it is something.  Can only sync through the net to wincrap, which I don't use.00:52
K`zan_n800Still, I love the beast :-)p.00:53
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K`zan_n800And am still getting used to the BT keyboard :-)00:53
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pauliukasYeah, it's crazy.00:54
pauliukasThe 770 is probably my 2nd best buy of my life.00:55
pauliukas1st being my iMac, and 3rd being my ebook reader00:55
Palintheusthe igo/think outside keyboard is getting very affordable from amazon00:55
pauliukasPalintheus, I'm in Canada. Amazon only sells books here.00:55
* Palintheus nods00:55
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pauliukasI've talked with people that have found BT keyboards on Amazon for like $3000:55
pauliukasThe cheapest I saw here at the stores was like $19900:55
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pauliukasGah is the correct reaction.00:55
K`zan_n800pauliukas: That is the one I have, not as nice as the one for the old plam c3, but decent enough.00:56
K`zan_n800For $30 it is quite nice.00:56
pauliukasheh, I betcha.00:57
pauliukasIt would also be amazing to find a BT keyboard that would fit in my pocket.00:57
pauliukasI could have the 770 and keyboard always with me.00:57
pauliukasThat's like having a laptop at all time.00:57
pauliukasWay more attractive than the eeepc or a real laaptop00:57
K`zan_n800Amazon shipped the first one via DHL to the other side of the country (I'm in scabattle) and then back and then dropped it in USPS where it seems to have disappeared.00:58
pauliukaswell that's intelligent.00:58
K`zan_n800ATo their credit, the shipped again 2 day and I got that one.'00:58
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K`zan_n800Stupid as hell...00:59
pauliukasI know that Amazon also has that plan so that everything is 2 day shipping. that's amazing.00:59
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pauliukasReally a shame that Amazon is nothing in Canada compared to the US.00:59
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K`zan_n800All the other stuff I ordered from folks selling through them from all over the country was here for a week or two before the second one from Amazon made it.01:00
K`zan_n800But all is well that ends well :-).01:00
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K`zan_n800Dunno if I will order from them again though.01:00
K`zan_n800But in this case even wtih the aggrivation, the price was right !01:01
pauliukasIf not, there's always Newegg for electronic stuff.01:01
pauliukasDid it at least come with a pouch like the 770?01:01
K`zan_n800Yep, that is where I get most of my stuff.01:01
K`zan_n800Yeah, I think the got a deal on old glasses cases, it is exactly like a real cheap glasses case.01:02
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pauliukasWait a second... You have a glases case that are as big as the 800?01:02
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pauliukasGlases for a giant or what?01:03
K`zan_n800Sucks, n800 will fall out of it easily.  Got a PSP softcase which is FAR better, but Not happy with it.01:03
blackd0tsibbi: 2.6.18 with the NAT fix works like a charm. iptables works now with no problems. Thanks for all help! :)01:03
sibbeblackd0t, nice01:03
K`zan_n800No, I can and have put my glasses in it - those don't fall out.01:03
dospodi wish we got bash01:03
K`zan_n800Yeah, but compared to ash, bash is HUGE.01:04
pauliukasI need to find a way to kil ltime.01:04
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pauliukasI'm downloading a game and my Internet here is awefully slow.01:04
K`zan_n800You could beat on the chess game until it blows up :-0.01:04
dospodstill would be nice for bash01:04
K`zan_n800Yes, it would01:04
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K`zan_n800Had to change all my scripts, so far they all work.01:05
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pauliukasI actually never learned how to play chess.01:05
Lateralusis there no way to make one .install file that will work for OS2007 as well as OS2008? the structure seems to have changed.01:06
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K`zan_n800Apparently not...01:09
K`zan_n800Still not sure about apps for the new 2008 either.  Very confusing mess :-/.01:09
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|Rmaybe bora3 and bora4 ?01:12
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pauliukas1.5mbit is such a pain :-(01:22
pauliukasNeed... to... kill... time....01:22
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K`zan_n800LOL, remember 300 baud dialup...01:24
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pauliukasI remember 33k and how amazing it was.01:25
pauliukasAlthough, when downloading 4GB worth of stuff, I forget everything01:25
tsavolawho wants my 56k modem?01:25
pauliukasNot me.01:25
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tsavolapauliukas: i first though you're from .fi because "liukas" mean slippery and "pauli" is the finnish version of "paul"01:27
tsavolaso, slippery pauli01:28
pauliukastsavola, I'm actually Lithuanian. Paulius is the lithuanian version of Paul.01:28
tsavolabut i guess that's not it01:28
pauliukasBut then, Paulius was a taken nick on Freenode, Pauliukas is kinda the small form of Paulius.01:28
tsavolaok :)01:28
pauliukasAnd so here I am, lol.01:28
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benno2hi, anyone know if the n810 is already available in europe ?01:35
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cosmo_benno2: yes it is in shops01:50
benno2trying to get it from germany in january01:51
benno2basically the n810 is like an n800 with gps ?01:51
cosmo_and keyboard01:51
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benno2but the price difference is still high 250$ vs 400$01:52
|Rn810 should be 30001:53
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benno2usd ?01:53
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|RIt would sell more devices, let nokia have a bigger market, ... it's still only the 3rd generation01:54
pauliukasN810 is a nice thing, but N800 is way better.01:54
|Rthe miniSD/2GB slot really is a bad idea...01:54
astro76the n810 really seems to be focused to the in-car navigation market01:55
astro76esp. cosidering the 2GB soldered in flash01:56
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tsavolai don't think it's focused to any navigation market, the gps chip is just there to expand the feature list02:01
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astro76plus there's the nice car mount02:07
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kbsinghastro76: 'nice'.... have you actually got a n810 ?02:09
kbsinghthe car mount is a pain to get the device into and out of02:09
kbsinghand the only way to get the mount in there, is to screw it into the dash board02:09
astro76no an n800, and yeah I remembered the thread I read about that after I typed it02:09
kbsinghnot nice if you have a nice dash and would rather prefer the suction cup idea that pretty much everyone else in the world has been using for a few years now02:10
kbsinghalso, for me ( SE London, UK area ) the n810 takes between 10 - 18 minutes to get position sync02:10
kbsinghcompared to about 22 - 24 seconds for the TomTom02:10
kbsinghso i'd say the gps thing is mostly just something to add as a feature02:10
astro76I never implied the n810 was going to be a success in the navigation market ;)02:11
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jighi people02:15
jiganyone here?02:15
K`zan_n800Speaking of which anyone know how to get maemo mapper to orient track up?02:16
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|Ron the right side of some tab (can't remember)02:17
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|Ryou have a drop down menu02:17
jigim thinking on buying a used nokia 77002:17
jigmy friend is asking me for 150€ but i think its too much02:18
jigit seems a little bit slow02:18
jigdoes anyone know if it will support os2008^?02:18
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|Rconsidering you can get something twice better for 200...02:18
|Rthat is still supported...02:18
jig|R: u are referring to n800,right?02:18
jig|R:the last version i find to download is os2006 from it stable enough and good enough to run smoothly on the device?02:20
|Rthere is also 2007 Hackers Edition... but i never had a 77002:20
jigseems kind of sluggish02:20
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astro76it is slower than the n8x002:20
astro76and quite a waste of money at this point, just get an n80002:21
kbsinghjig: had the n800 for £12902:21
kbsinghnot sure if that deal is still on, but when it was - its the best nokia tablet deal02:22
kbsinghstill there02:22
|Rdamn, you guys in europe get screwed a lot02:22
kbsingh|R: thanks02:22
jigyes we do:-)02:22
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|Rhaha :)02:22
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kbsinghbtw, for those who are in the .uk02:23 has a payg deal, £5/month for 2gigs of downloads at 3g speeds02:23
kbsinghi get between 80 - 120k/sec on there..not sure if its the device b/w limit or thats all on offer over 3g in my area02:24
pauliukaskbsingh, I believe that it depends on how many people are using the b/w at once in your area.02:25
jig|R: and nokia has officially discontinued support for n770?02:25
kbsinghpauliukas: yea, i'd guess so.02:25
pauliukasAs in, they get a pipe to the cell tower and it's shared to everyone.02:25
kbsinghwell, as long as i get >= 20kb/sec I am mostly happy on the move02:26
astro76jig, correct, the 770 is no longer supported02:26
kbsinghmost of what i need is email and irc and a couple of ssh sessions02:26
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jigastro: but i can still get some software for it such as pidgeon and vnc,etc for OS2006,right?02:27
benno2but why 10min to get sync ? this is a joke02:28
|Rjig: yep, check garage.maemo.org02:28
astro76jig, there is also OS2007 hacker edition02:28
benno2how does nokia hope to make any sales to people looking for a tomtom replacement02:28
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jig|R: tks02:29
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pauliukasastro76, How can I install hacker edition?02:30
pauliukasI've been trying to ask people here and they all keep replying that I can't.02:30
kbsinghbenno2: you know something odd, 10 min is no problem - atleast for me02:30
kbsinghi know the roads around where i live, and dont normally need navigational aid in the immediate area :D02:31
kbsinghbut yes, kinda irritating02:31
astro76pauliukas, dunno, I don't have one02:31
benno2I see, so basically you can program your route and just drive away having your n810 coming up after 10min ?02:31
jigastro76: os2007 he is installed in it right now and it seems kinda sluggish.i was hoping that with os2006 original would be smoother. i wouldnt mind having less eye.candy02:32
astro76jig, I wouldn't expect it to be faster with 200602:32
astro76jig, the real problem is slower CPU and half the RAM02:33
fugitivoI have the same issue02:33
pauliukascome on people.02:33
fugitivousing 2007 HE and thinking about installing os 2006 again02:33
pauliukasIts a bloody computer in the palm of your hand.02:33
pauliukasHow fast do you want it to be.02:33
fugitivowe know the 770 is not fast, but at least i want it stable02:34
fugitivowith os 2007 HE is far from being stable02:34
pauliukasWhich is why I want 2007 HE02:34
pauliukasOpera on 2006 is always crashing on mee02:34
fugitivowell, it keeps crashing02:34
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fugitivothe problem with the browser is the low memory of the device02:35
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kbsinghbenno2: hang on a min :D02:35
fugitivosome sites takes all memory and crashes the browser (or reboot the device)02:35
|tbb|anyone familar with x forwarding?02:35
kbsinghbenno2: you _cant_ program navigation on the n81002:35
kbsinghyou get maps02:35
kbsinghand you get a gpsd talking gps02:35
kbsinghyou dont get navigational and routing s/w02:35
kbsinghthats $$$$ more02:35
benno2kbsingh: yes I mean in conjunction with the voice enabled navigation02:36
jigso cpu is lower and so is the ram02:36
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pauliukasjig, 770 is 216MHz with 64MB RAM02:36
fugitivo|tbb|: what do you need?02:36
pauliukasn800 is 300-something MHz and 128MB RAM02:36
astro76n800 is 400 MHz with os200802:36
pauliukasI use my 770 daily and it's fast enoug02:36
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jiguff...its a big difference02:37
fugitivojig: the difference between the 770 and n800 is BIG02:37
benno2astro76: can this mhz boot on os2008 be felt in the real world ?02:37
astro76benno2, oh yeah02:37
jigpauliukas: what do you use it for?02:37
fugitivojig: I have the 770 and when I use my friend's n800 I feel in heaven :)02:37
pauliukasjig, Web browsing, PIM, SSH, note taking and as a clock02:37
pauliukas330 MHz TI OMAP 242002:37
benno2astro76: did you test vnc on os2008 ? is it fast ?02:38
astro76pauliukas, it's underclocked to 33002:38
pauliukasPaulius:1      astro76: 002:38
pauliukasIs there a way to overclock?02:38
astro76pauliukas, it's set to 400 by just running os200802:38
pauliukasWithout doing damage or heat or something?02:38
hugolppauliukas:  OS2008 sets the processor to 400Mhz02:38
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astro76it's the same processor as the n81002:38
pauliukasoh okay.02:38
pauliukasSo why is it set to 330 in the 1st place?02:38
pauliukasHeat? Battery life? Stability?02:38
astro76they felt the power management improved to allow enabling the faster speed is all02:38
hugolppauliukas:  ask nokia02:38
jigfugitivo: so is it allways sluggish no matter the OS?02:38
astro76without impacting battery life02:38
astro76pauliukas, yes, just battery life02:39
pauliukasBut how much does it impact?02:39
kbsinghjig: I've been using claws-mail for a few days, and thats not really sluggish at all02:39
pauliukasNot a lot or lot?02:40
kbsinghand i get a lot of email, like 800 - 1200 / day02:40
fugitivojig: that depends, you can't use it with a lot of programs at the same time02:40
astro76pauliukas, well, battery life seems the same, but it seems a lot snappier with os2008, so two thumbs up ;)02:40
pauliukasHah. Stupid nokians02:40
pauliukasI really want to see the meeting where they went "If you made the device 2 times slower, we could gain 10 minutes of battery"02:41
pauliukasAnd someone had to go "hmmmm"02:41
tsavolaerr, it's a mobile device02:41
tsavolait's not even a laptop02:42
astro76well 330 vs 400 is not 2 times slower02:42
astro76but yeah, battery life is king02:42
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fugitivoi think n800 and n810 cpu power and ram is enough02:42
fugitivo770 isn't02:42
pauliukasMy 770 works wonderfully.02:43
benno2is it normal that the nokia 2006 updater for the n770 (on windows) tells me required time to install : 2h.  is seems to download the image from the internet first and the network monitor seems to show 16KB/sec, though I haver 2Mbit02:43
pauliukasYou people are just simply spoiled.02:43
astro76pauliukas, we are definitely ;)02:43
tsavolai like my core2duo02:43
fugitivopauliukas: did you try the n800?02:43
pauliukasbenno2, Probably overloaded server or living too far from the server.02:43
astro76and the 770 is by no means worthless, but I wouldn't buy one now02:43
tsavolaboth 770 and n800 are slow02:43
pauliukasfugitivo, No.02:43
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fugitivopauliukas: well, it's a BIG difference :)02:43
fugitivo770 screen is not as sensitive as n800, speed in the 770 is really slow02:44
fugitivotsavola: n800 is ok02:44
benno2how is the video performance of the n800. I heard the video bandwidth is less than the one of the n770 ?02:44
tsavolamy gf preferred 770 to n800 for web browsing, but i think it was partially due to the number of crashes02:45
astro76benno2, supposedly there's an issue with >25 fps, not sure really02:45
astro76seems perfect to me if I encode within 400x240 window02:45
jigcan i see divx in 770?02:45
astro76jig, give it up :p02:45
pauliukasAnd probably not in 800 either02:45
pauliukasDivx takes too much processing power.02:45
astro76sure it works with mplayer02:45
benno2astro76: 400x240 should be watchable, isn't it ?02:45
pauliukasJust get an iPod touch or the ipod video02:46
astro76benno2, it is, I use 400x240 xvid/divx with mplayer02:46
astro76it's perfect02:46
fugitivoit's an internet tablet, not multimedia tablet :)02:46
benno2astro76: and you use ?02:46
benno2to make the videos02:46
astro76it's wonderful for multimedia, why label? :p02:46
pauliukasStupid sluggish Internet. Download only 49% done!02:46
astro76benno2, just mencoder by hand so far ;)02:46
tsavolafugitivo: actually afair it was advertised as a multimedia device02:47
benno2astro76: still wondering what are the best parameters. assuming you want best quality. filesize does not matter02:47
fugitivotsavola: really? when?02:47
tsavolafugitivo: back when 770 was launched02:47
tsavolafugitivo: at least that's the impression i got02:47
fugitivotsavola: are you sure? i don't remember that02:47
pauliukasMultimedia as in MP3 player.02:47
tsavolamultimedia as in video02:47
pauliukasAnd web radio02:47
astro76benno2, it seems that as long as you are within 400x240, you can leave the framerate the same, and the video bitrate can be way more than necessary with no problems02:48
fugitivoall advertisement i saw was web browsing, chat and internet radio, everything else is a plus :)02:48
tsavolaanyway, i'll go to bed ->02:48
benno2astro76: cool. as soon as I will get one I will play around with it.02:49
astro76benno2,example for a 16/9 aspect video at 23.98 fps: mencoder $FILENAME -oac mp3lame -lameopts cbr:br=128 -ovc lavc -lavcopts vcodec=mpeg4:aspect=16/9:keyint=250:vbitrate=768:vpass=1 -vf scale=400:224 -idx -ffourcc DX50 -ofps 23.98 -o ${BASENAME}.tablet.avi02:49
jigastro: sorry,just wanted to be sure02:49
astro76one key is using cbr for the mp3 audio02:49
jigbefore saying no02:49
benno2astro76: thanks. saving the cmdline opts to a file :)02:49
astro76keeps the audio/video synced02:49
astro76this applies to pcs, not just tablets02:51
fugitivoanyone waiting for n810 discount codes?02:54
jigok,one more:-)02:55
jig2008 hackers edition could be considered stable?02:55
kbsinghfugitivo: I dont mind one, if you have one to spare02:55
astro76jig, I don't think there is such a thing02:55
jigi meant 200702:56
fugitivojig: hacker edition != stable02:56
jigim typing in the dark :-)02:56
sp3000holy crap, I'm getting all sorts of credible debs from the regular repository foo02:56
*** bmidgley is now known as bmidgley|away02:57 i have a conclusion02:59
sp3000meh, is still broken for me02:59
kbsinghanyone care to shed light on whats the diff between a class 2, a class 4 and a class 6 minishdc 4gb card from kingston02:59
jigthanks alot for your help02:59
* sp3000 holds back on calling it fixed or any such hasty conclusions02:59
jig150€ is alot of money for n77003:00
astro76kbsingh, the class numbering is the minimum write speed in MB/s03:00
steridoes n800 support 16gb cards?03:00
astro76I think it should03:00
legindsteri, not officially, officially it supports SD cards, not SDHC, so <= 2GB03:00
kbsinghthe n810 specs seem to say 8gb max03:00
astro76officially OS2008 does support SDHC03:01
legindoh fo real?03:01
kbsinghand > 2 gb needs SDHC03:01
* jig offers a glass with fine port wine to all participants in the conversation03:01
astro76but I've only seen 8GB mentioned, probably because no one could test with 16GB cards03:01
astro76the current SDHC spec goes up to 16GB03:01
steriI'm getting 2 16g in couple weeks :P 25 euros each03:02
kbsinghsteri: where from ?03:02
astro76I just got another 8gb with a nice rebate03:02
sterikbsingh: china03:02
astro76hehe yeah03:02
legindhow much do 8gb sdhc cost03:02
steriIt's from co-worker relative etc03:03
legindon average, usd03:03
astro76legind, I have two of these
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legindwow thats hella cheap03:03
kbsinghits double the price in the UK03:04
kbsinghas in, its more expensive in the UK03:05
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kbsinghare all SDHC cards == miniSD ?03:13
kbsinghor might i get stuck with a full size SD card that i cant use in the n81003:13
deejoeI think there are SDHC cards that are full-sized03:14
astro76SDHC is full sized like SD03:14
astro76there's SDHC miniSDHC and microSDHC03:14
astro76you should only buy microSDHC for the n81003:14
astro76because miniSDHC is a dead format03:14
kbsinghhumm kingston using their web configurator, knows the n810 and gives me a SDHC as the best fit03:15
astro76*with a miniSD adapter of course03:15
kbsinghastro76: well, it cant be dead if it works in the device03:15
astro76kbsingh, meaning no devices are going to be using it really anymore, phones are using micro03:15
astro76there's not many models available and probably won't be03:16
kbsinghfair enough03:16
kbsinghbtw, anyone have fuse working with os2008 ?03:16
kbsinghbe nice to get sshfs working03:16
astro76haven't tried that yet03:17
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deejoetalk about dead formats: I got a camera that uses CF.  I found exactly one piece at each of two places I looked.03:22
astro76high end cameras still use CF though don't they?03:22
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astro76yeah I guess not popular enough for local stores03:23
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bender183cf is still good for certain things =)03:25
bender183like embedded devices03:25
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astro76yep, have one in my router03:27
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bender183yep me203:28
bender183other than that...useless03:28
bender183im interested in seeing the minisd capacity pick up the pace now that i have the n81003:28
|Ri have a microSDHC 8GB -> topram micro->mini converter->nokia's mini->fullSD converter -> n800, that works :)03:29
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|RminiSDHC only goes up to 4GB :(03:30
|Rand i too think this is a dead end format...03:30
astro76yep exactly03:30
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bender183im surprised more has not been invested in minisd03:30
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|Rkind of pointless as device got too small to quick now03:31
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astro76and there's micro to mini adapters so it's  moot point03:31
|Rof course they could easily fit 16GB in a miniSD right now but they don't ... go figure03:31
bender183yeah i wonder who is pulling the strings sometimes03:32
|R(like they could release 32GB SDHC card ... but don't to make more money...)03:32
bender183they dont make very good decsisions03:32
pauliukasBecause it's life.03:32
pauliukasSame thing with RAM.03:32
pauliukasIn my computer, I have a 2GB DIMM of DDR2.03:32
pauliukasA year ago, it costed $700! Now it costs $12003:32
pauliukasThe manufacturing date from my dimm is the same date as when it used to cost 700.03:33
pauliukasGo figure.03:33
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pauliukasIt's mostly R&D and some other stuff.03:33
astro76I've read RAM pricing fluctuates as a commodity03:33
pauliukasBut I wish everything wasn't as cheap as it is today.03:33
pauliukasLet's have quality components made somewhere else than China.03:33
hugolppauliukas:  you really think the chinese can not make quality stuff?03:34
pauliukasof course.03:34
hugolpthe problem is not chinese, the problem is price03:34
hugolpthe problem is company that will sell the cheapest stuff they find03:35
hugolpand thats all03:35
|Rand careless chinese politics03:35
hugolp|R:  careless and politics in the same sentence is redundant03:36
|Ryeah sorry ;003:36
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kbsinghi dont think all ram is made in China03:44
kbsinghlots of it comes from Taiwan and Korea as well03:44
kbsinghbut the fact that just a few companies control pretty much all of it, is scary. and iirc didnt someone get busted in the rear end by the US DoJ and the French MRTP guys for price fixing ?03:45
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pierluxmaybe I did something wrong, but I can't install the maemo sdk in the scratchbox... I get "Size mitmatch" errors on apt-get04:48
astro76the repos have been messed up04:50
pierluxmaybe I should subscribe to a mailing list :)04:52
pierluxgot a sugestion?04:52
astro76hasn't been much info accept on internettablettalk04:52
astro76apparently you can switch to stage.maemo.org04:52
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pierluxor is it known when it'll be fixed?04:53
astro76when Nokia people get back from vacation, hopefully04:53
pierluxhehe :)04:54
pierluxthen maybe after Giftmas04:54
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K`zan_n800I've been told to wait on updating / adding anything until at least the beginning of the year...05:03
alppierlux: worked for me yesterday05:04
alppierlux: check your backlog in #webkit-gtk ;-)05:05
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|Ralso repostory instead of repository (no "i")05:19
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zoransomeone used fuse and sshfs?08:34
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Luriaeveyone's so chatty08:51
cmathesonI see in /topic that the repository debs are broken, but I just got my N800 for Christmas and I'm trying to set up the development environment on my computer--are there any mirrors?08:55
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Luriacheck the thread on ITT08:59
Luriatimeless rolled a deb with some alternate ips08:59
Luriaone sec08:59
Luriacmatheson, try this:08:59
Luria66.33.212.254 repository.maemo.org09:00
Luriain /etc/hosts09:00
Luriaany  better?09:00
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Phobbesafter messing with the SDK for a couple days, I finally got my n800 today.09:05
cmathesonLuria: sorry, got busy doing something else there for a second--i'm putting that in right now, thanks09:08
proctough, whoops09:08
proctoanyone know why on os2008 instead of the onscreen keyboard, I only nget this thin suggestion bar?09:08
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proctoand can't bring the onscreen back?09:09
proctoit tujrned on when I started using my bt keyboard, which is fine, but it's not going away09:09
Vulcanismaybe its on handwriting mode?09:10
Vulcanisotherwise just try tapping the text field again09:10
cmathesonLuria: hmm, it's still giving me the same errors--is it possible that it's caching the DNS from my previous attempts or something?09:10
proctoVulcanis: tried. doesn't work.09:11
Vulcanistry finger-tapping it, then09:11
Vulcanissee if that'll bring up the fingerboard09:11
Vulcanisotherwise, see if turning off bluetooth helps it09:11
Vulcanisit could be because it is currently paired with a BT keyboard09:12
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proctotried and it doesn't work09:13
proctoI think it thinks I have an n81009:13
proctoturning off bt didn't help09:14
proctoit's just this very thin bar that shows suggestions09:15
proctoso it's not in handwriting mode09:15
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Vulcanisn810 has the finger osk too, I believe09:16
Vulcanisso, hmm09:16
Vulcanistry restarting it09:16
Vulcaniswhat program are you trying to do it in?09:16
Luriai dont suppose anyone here has rolled a vim deb?09:17
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Vulcanisthere should be one on maemo.org09:20
proctoI'm trying it in web, xterm09:21
proctoI'll try restarting09:21
Luriashould as in ought to be or should as in "i saw it there" :-)09:21
Vulcanisluria: Dunno about OS2008, but theres an OS2007 one that you can probably install with redpillmode09:21
Luriahmm, i tried that once and it failed09:22
Luriaill give it another shot09:22
Vulcanisoop, theres an OS2008 one, too09:22
Vulcanisyeah, the repos are shot09:22
Vulcanisthough, you might be able to find a mirror09:22
VulcanisI have not tried downloading anything recently, so dunn09:23
Luriahmm, lesse.09:23
Luriathanks for the heads up - could have sworn i checked earlier today09:23
Lurianow if you could point me to abiword, my life would be complete :-)09:24
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Vulcanisluria: Don't know if there is a working abiword port for 0809:30
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metatronyeah, was hoping the coming soon was sooner than it seems to be09:32
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Luriayikes, lagged09:32
Luriaand without a linux/dev box handy i can follow the x-compile from source instructions09:33
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[mbm]anyone know the default lock code on the n800? "12345" didn't work11:42
kulveI think the default is that 12345..11:44
rwhitbyyeah, default is 1234511:44
[mbm]got myself stuck in a situation where it keeps asing for the code but I don't remember ever setting it and 12345 didn't work11:45
[mbm]alternatively, I can try creating a custom initrd that nukes the code, but first I'd need to figure out where it stores that11:48
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[mbm]got it .. something I had set years ago when I first got the n80011:57
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svu_are they going to fix
svu_it is broken for ages...13:21
sbaturziosvu: have you tried with ? Without the 'i'?13:24
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svu_sbaturzio: not. Never heard of it. what is it?13:29
sbaturziosvu_: there is a temporary workaround for that repository13:30
sbaturziojust remove the 'i' and try to update your N8x013:30
svu_sbaturzio: ugh.... but if I am going to install sdk - I have to fix the script as well, don't I?13:30
sbaturziodon't know if the SDK installation is affected13:31
svu_affected, unfortunately13:31
sbaturzioargh...that's not good13:31
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svu_not good at all13:33
sbaturziosvu_: mmm..and creating an alias in /etc/hosts ? something like "" ?13:34
svu_well, I'll try. good idea13:34
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bahoJust got a new N800... Upgraded to os2008. Charged ok. Now plugging in the charger - I'm not getting the battery indicator to show that it's "CHARGING".... Anyone had a similar problem?14:18
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bahoDoes it normally show "charging"?14:18
guardianisn't it because it's charged ?14:18
bahoguardian: it's not charged - it's half full.14:19
bahoguardian: I've used it for around a day, after charging.14:19
bahoguardian: then again, maybe it's half emty :-)14:19
guardiani don't remember how it behaves and i don't have my device here, sorry14:20
guardiani'm stuck reinstalling the sdk because of problems :(14:20
bahoAnyone can confirm that it shows some "charging" messge?14:20
bahoguardian: I installed it last night :-)14:20
Bodhi2mine says charging when its switched off14:21
bahoBodhi2: Does the message stay on screen?14:22
Bodhi2when its off14:23
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sp3000baho, at leasst in the default set of icons, the battery icon in the statusbar will animate while charging14:30
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svu_damn, the trick with "repostory" in /etc/hosts does not work - it is same ip as "repository"15:07
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astro76svu_, (except where x = repository) still points to here16:23
svu_astro76: it is not trivial to hack the SDK installation script to use something else...16:24
astro76oh I dunno, just saying it's not the same IP here16:24
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sbaturziothe "theme maker" in for N800+OS2008, works or not?16:34
benno2_hi, any idea where I could start my own X11 app in maemo ? what initscsript should I edit ?16:40
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benno2_does anyone know what script do I need to call in order to establish a wlan connection automatically ?16:56
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benno2_how can I select the default wlan connection ?17:08
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alteregobenno2_, repeating yourself three times isn't going to get you an answer.17:09
benno2_I played with my n770 long ago and seem to recall a menu where I could set the preferrent connection. now I updated to OS2006 and I see only a connect automatically to wlan17:11
benno2_but it does not say to which one17:11
alteregobenno2_, preferred connections are those that are "saved" They'll have a green tick icon beside them in the connection selection dialog.17:12
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benno2_so if I save only one connection it should work17:12
alteregoI guess,17:12
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alteregoIf it doesn't you'll either have to update to 2007HE, or, write a script that uses LibConIc.17:13
benno2_my n770 is 2y old but still nice, eager to try the n800/810 :)17:13
alteregoThey're a vast improvement over the 77017:13
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alteregoThe Nokia 770 is still a nice device in it's own right though.17:15
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alteregoI wish those ubuntu mobile kids would get their act together and come up with something nice for it.17:15
benno2_:)  btw is skype for OS2008 available ?17:16
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alteregoYes, as far as I know.17:17
benno2_cool. and I heard SIP video calls work well too (x-lite on the PC side)17:17
astro76no video on os2008 skype17:18
alteregoYeah, I've not really got into that side of the tablets yet :)17:18
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astro76benno2_, yeah, gizmo works well too with video17:18
benno2_yes but it works using the OS2008 sip client17:18
maszoHi, just loaded up os2008 on my n800 but i cant detect my 3.5 usb hdd. Im not sure if this would work sinCe i only used a usb hub17:18
astro76maszo, you'll need to inject power17:19
maszoHmmm. Will a powered hub work?17:20
alteregomaszo, yes a powered hub will work. Are you using a proper OTG cable?17:20
alteregoOr a gender bender?17:20
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maszoHmmm dunno, i just used the cable that came with the box17:22
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timelyxsvu: what are you trying to install?17:23
alteregoHow do you plug that into the HUB?17:23
* DRoBeR is away: out of order17:24
maszoOhhh. Cant i just use any of the ports there?17:24
maszoI guess i really need an adapter if thats the case?17:24
alteregoYou can't just plug the lead into the HUB like a peripheral .. It needs to be attached to the host connector ..17:26
maszoIc... I thoght any of the ports will do. Bummer. Will get one tommorow then. Thanks!17:27
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yabbasis there a way to stop Xomap without having it restart the N800 and without editing x-server in init.d?17:39
* timelyx would assume Xomap is life guarded => device reboots if it dies17:42
zoranset somewhere is sudo?17:43
zoranany linux should work whatever happens to X17:44
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yabbaszoran, script in x-server sets the N800 to restart if Xomap is killed.  I was hoping for a way to stop it restarting without altering the script.17:46
yabbastimelyx, aye - that's the case17:47
timelyxyabbas: if you enable r&d mode, most if not all of life guarding goes away17:47
zoranyabbas, so the daemon?17:47
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zoranyabbas, should it be just temporary? one time only?17:48
yabbastimelyx, tbh - I'm wanting to kill it nicely, then restart it with args that enable me to use a mouse device other than tslib.17:48
yabbaszoran, yup17:48
timelyxyabbas: i don't see what's wrong w/ rewriting the initscripts and rebooting17:49
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zoranmaybe pointer, soft link and kill -HUP or how it is called17:49
yabbastimelyx, don't want it screwing up people's tablets should the worst happen :)17:49
timelyxyabbas: so test it welll :)17:50
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zorancp file file.backup17:50
zoranchanage file17:50
zoranthen in init.d restart17:50
wnddoesn't "touch /etc/no_lg_reboots" do the trick anymore?17:52
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zorannever saw such a file17:53
zorancould you pase it?17:53
wndjust try creating that file17:53
zoranit makes file with 0 size and no exe perms17:54
zoranthe name down't matter17:54
zoranthe date matters17:55
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yabbaswnd:  that sounds pretty cool.  got any refs for that?17:56
zoranwnd, yes, explain it further, please17:57
wndirc logs and vague memories ;-)17:57
zoranshort life and no memories17:58
yabbaswnd:  it works ;)17:58
* yabbas wishes he knew of all the hidden shizzle here17:58
wndremember to delete that file when you're done17:58
zoranso, something looks for that file?17:59
yabbaswnd:  aye, _much_ better than faffage with various scripts17:59
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alteregosp3000, apearantly it's a caching issue, if you use '' it gets around the problem ..18:13
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sp3000morning timelyx18:18
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ajturnerany word on when the developer discount codes will be working for n810 purchases?18:22
ajturnerI've been on travel and haven't seen any mention18:22
alteregoajturner, last saturday.18:23
bigupHi :)18:23
ajturneralterego: as in they'll work now (as of last Saturday)?18:23
alteregoNo, they should have been working last saturday.18:23
alteregoBut they're not :P18:24
rdorschHow can I move applets on the desktop on OS2008? In the destop (home) menu I see only configure and select applets.18:24
alteregoWe're all waiting for the email saying they're active ..18:24
sp3000rdorsch: just grab them18:24
ajturnerah, right, was supposed to be Dec 15,18:24
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rdorschsp3000: what do you mean with grab? When I e.g. touch "First steps" (or similar in English) it starts a Video.18:26
sp3000as in stylus down and move18:26
rdorschsp3000: works, thanks.18:26
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* czr peeks18:34
alteregoczr, !18:35
alteregoHave a good Christmas?18:35
czrhey alterego :-)18:35
czryup, still on-going-process really18:35
alteregoYeah, was good.18:35
alteregoPreparing myself for new years ..18:35
czryou're making a suit? :-)18:35
alteregoJust detoxing before the inevitable drinking :/18:37
alteregoI'm going to try and stay as sober as possible.18:37
czrheh. I'm safe this year I think18:37
czrspending time with family anyway, not too much drinking that can be done. I don't want them to know the levels of alcoholism that I've attained18:37
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alteregoI'm going to a big party.18:38
alteregoProbably the last time I do anything super massive ..18:38
alteregoWell, that and my Birthday in April.18:39
czrah, cool. you'll turn 50 finally?18:39
alterego25 :P18:43
czrwell, I was 50% correct then :-)18:43
alteregoWouldn't that make me 100?18:44
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czralterego, depends on which side of 50% we're talking about :-)18:46
alteregoYou could look at it the other way. You were 200% right ..18:49
czryou don't want to me to be that much right. I'd turn nonbearable :-)18:50
alteregoI could get started on your grammer :P18:50
czryou could!18:51
wndor on your spelling :-)18:52
alteregoI didn't want to insult both. Spelling was going to be my fallback plan :P18:52
czralterego, he meant your speling :-)18:52
alteregoYes, my speling is bad.18:52
alteregoIt's almost nonbearable.18:52
* czr learns alterego some new spels18:52
* czr fires up google for 'implus'18:53
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zoranunpossible is questonable too  :)18:54
czrto queston or not to queston.18:54
alteregozoran, I think that was the point :P18:54
yabbashmmm - is there the equivelant of an xorg.conf for xomap?18:55
czrkdrive servers don't have configs18:55
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czrat least not that I know18:55
zoranit's not so easy not to make a mistake on small stylus kb18:55
czrthey're configured during build-time18:56
yabbasdamn :(18:56
ajturnerdo I need flasher v3 for OS2008 on Mac (n800)18:57
alteregoThere is a certain amount of configuration options available on the command line.18:57
zoranand 2 much sudo ones18:57
yabbasczr, and I take it nokia build the xserver by default without mouse support :-/18:57
alteregoI thought there was mouse support ..18:59
alteregoBut I could be wrong.18:59
czryabbas, not sure. I'd think there's support for pointer devices and linux evdev18:59
czrand the touch screen thingy is implemented using evdev18:59
czrso that'd cover normal mice as well (as long as there'd be a driver in the kernel for the mouse)18:59
yabbasthe  args start xomap using -mouse tslib18:59
yabbastried -mouse evdev but it didn't like it19:00
czrnot sure about the config though19:00
* yabbas nods19:01
czrneed to run now though19:01
czrlater alterego and all you other grammerquestoniers19:01
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unique311    what a tease.19:24
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pparkerHi guys19:39
pparkerI've installed wesnoth game on a 770 tablet19:40
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pparkerBut i can't launch19:40
pparkerWhere is executable ?19:41
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truentalterego, how were you planning on implementing the dbus listeners in ruby? ive been pondering dbus-monitor output and how i could grab it.. need some ideas19:51
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benno2_any idea if one can set/unset the R&D mode on the n770 using a windows tool ?20:21
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kulvebenno2_: I think one can not. But I'm really not sure about that..20:32
benno2_kulve: thanks so I will try from linux. because I would like to update an old 770 to OS2006 but it is set to R&D mode and the windows updater fails updating it. probably I have to unset r&d first20:33
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kulvehmm.. at least in linux, the R&D -mode doesn't affect the flashing of the image20:36
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EYHi, all.20:48
EYMakes sense why all apps seem to be broken.20:49
hahlowhich one flash better windows or linux?20:49
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EYI-t's such a cstraightforward proess that it does not really make any difference.20:52
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EYHow can I play DivX movies in OS2008? I can't find mplayer in any of the repositories?20:56
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EYWhat is the timeframe for fixing debs?21:40
guardiani guess everyone wants to know21:41
|Rhehe just replace repoSItory by repoStory ;)21:43
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|Rit's a functional "mirror" (if you change it in your apt sources)21:45
EYI'll give it a try.21:45
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| or replace in the mean time from what i gathered21:46
guardianit doesn't work21:46
kulveI've been using now for awhile without any problems21:47
guardianthis workaround doesn't work for me21:47
kulveit works for everybody else..21:47
guardianwell as pointed earlier by (???) [anything] resolves to stage.maemo.org21:47
guardiankulve: works for you ?21:47
guardianjust tried another sdk install21:48
guardiansame problem21:48
EYIs mplayer available anywhere?21:48
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kulveI've installed some packages with apt-get without problems (that failed with repository.m.o)21:48
kulvealso app.mgr. works just fine21:49
guardianin fact21:49
guardianit's my fault :(21:49
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guardiani'm on my laptop21:49
jgawhere is the sources.list file? mine is empty21:49
guardianand scratchbox copies etc/resolv.conf21:49
guardianand now that i'm at home21:49
guardianit's not the good nameservers21:49
guardian... pfff21:49
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kulvejga: in the device or in the SB?21:50
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kulveI thinks it's /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list21:51
jgaawesome, thanks21:51
jgain SB is it just sources.list?21:51
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kulvejga: at least in my SB it seems to be so21:52
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Spacersomeone know how to get a more full set of applications in the maemo-sdk that accurately renders the os2008 image?21:53
kulveSpacer: I think you can't get the closed source apps there21:54
Spacerwell the software installer isnt there either, just this "hello world!" gtk demo app21:55
kulvehmm.. are you now talking about the flashable development image?21:56
kulveor some SB target?21:56
Spaceryes CHINOOK_X86, just plain SDK21:56
Spacertrying to get a more 'real world' feel in it21:57
kulveI think it's meant to be more like just a dev environment.. And I've never even started the X86 target..21:57
kulvebut basically you can get some apps there (I'm not sure which are provided out-of-the-box) but not nearly all21:58
Spacerwhy is it there anyway? to compount the speed hit of the armel emulation?21:58
kulvewell, some components are easier or faster to develop on the x86 target and then just recompile in armel and copy to the device. I think it's fast enough on armel target in the first place..21:59
* yabbas agrees with kulve 22:00
Spacermaybe, i do notice a difference in speed though22:00
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Spacerbut that doesn't really bother me22:00
kulveSpacer: yeah, there's a speed difference, but I don't bother testing on x86, since the real target is arm22:00
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jgamy sb can't resolve any site even after modifying my nsswitch and resolve.conf22:03
kulvethere are two nsswitch files, iirc22:05
kulvescratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf and one in the target's etc22:05
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jgaall that needs to be changed is the hosts: dns, right?22:07
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kulveI'm not sure. I think that's not a problem in debian etch..22:08
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yabbasis there a way to extend the input capabilities of KDrive without having to recompile the server with that support in place?22:20
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scibotSo is there any camera apps besides Gizmo and Camera (for still shots)22:46
astro76how many apps do you need to take crappy still pictures?22:47
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scibotAstro, Don't forget video.22:47
acydlordthere is knips22:47
acydlordand the gps one22:48
acydlordi must give nokia props for finding that many image sensors from 10 year old webcams to stick in the n800s =x22:48
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astro76hey it's great as a webcam22:49
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acydlordit's good as long as it's not low light22:49
yabbasacydlord, :D22:49
yabbasI'm working on a still-picture app for maemo atm.22:49
acydlordi remember back when the n800 came out i was going to make an IR blaster rig for it22:50
yabbasHopefully given a few image processing techniques I can get useful images out of the onboard cam.22:50
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yabbasSo, hopefully you'll see dark noise negation, long exposures, panoramic stitching,  various useful convolution techniques, and superresolution pictures on a maemo device  near you.22:53
astro76yabbas, sounds great22:53
yabbasbut first thing's first....22:54
* yabbas wiggles his toes22:54
yabbasAstro, I kinda like the fact we  have a terrible cam on the device,  gives me something to do :D22:54
scibotI want to play with a webcam for websites program22:54
bedboithe discount code is still not valid  :(22:55
astro76yabbas, yeah definitely a good challenge22:56
yabbasbedboi, aye :( saddens me too.22:56
acydlordsaddens me as well22:57
scibotBig brother needs a stream22:57
acydlordbut as i'm selling my n800 to buy my n810 it gives me a little more time with it =x22:57
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yabbaswouldn't ever sell my n800 ... I have too much love  for the device <322:57
scibotI need a keyboard for mine22:57
acydlordwell i'm too poor to afford the n810 at the moment without selling my n80022:58
* yabbas nods22:59
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acydlordi would like to keep it so that when i get my kayak i can make it be the onboard computer/gps =x22:59
yabbaswhy not work a day or two and earn the  £75 or so  it'll set you back for an 810 and keep both? :)22:59
acydlordwell i start my new job on the 7th23:00
acydlordi guess i could just wait about a month till i get paid from that and buy the n810 with my dev discount23:00
acydlord2008 is going to be one busy busy year for me23:01
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bedboibeing busy sucks, you don't have time for hacking23:02
acydlordi make time for hacking23:02
bedboihowever, being busy  hacking is cool23:02
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acydlordit's mostly the second half of the year that will be busy as i will be moving and then trying to get everything set to open a bar/brewery23:03
acydlordad as far as i know it will be the first/only geek oriented bar in seattle23:04
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liiageek oriented bar sounds fun :)23:23
acydlordi want to turn enough profit to donate a portion to the open source community23:26
trulshow will it be geek oriented?23:27
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scibotNo video recording apps?23:38
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sbaturzioI think the first question should be "which device is the camera?" and not if there are video recording apps23:42
sbaturzioif a device exists, mplayer should work as a capture program23:42
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acydlordthe "camera" app does video i believe23:57
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