IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-12-15

Solarionyou mean vorbis?00:00
Sho_he means vorbis, yes00:00
Solarion(instead of ogg)00:00
Solariondunno why xiph needed Yet Another Container Format00:00
realcomixAh heh yes00:00
Solarionvorbis/theora support would be huge00:01
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Sho_Solarion: Vorbis support is available00:01
Sho_Solarion: Apparently so is Theora, actually:
SolarionSho_: I meant out of the box00:03
Solarionany hope of that?00:03
Sho_Solarion: Is there a critical need for that if you can just easily install it?00:04
dragornanyone know offhand why mplayer (latest from hackers-dev) takes ~30s to start?  I assume it's something to do with searching for media, any way to speed that up?  Runs fine once it starts.00:04
SolarionSho_: sure.  Difference between notebook vendor giving you Windows support and putting Linux or, or vendor giving you Linux support.00:04
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FatalSolarion: I guess you missed the nokia vs html5 debacle a few days ago?00:05
Sho_*shrugs* For me one reason to be interested in the ITs in the first place is *because* I can install things that aren't there out of the box00:05
SolarionFatal: missed, no.00:05
SolarionSho_: Certainly, but that doesn't mean that there's not a significant difference between "vendor supports x" and "you can make it do x"00:06
Sho_Solarion: When it comes to a video codec, I don't really perceive that significant difference for my personal use cases00:06
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Solarioneh, I suppose.00:08
Solarionstill would be nice to have that support00:08
Solarionbut you00:08
Solarion're probably right; for a video codec the distinction isn't nearly as huge00:09
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dagbIs there a slick solution for automatic switching between WLAN and GPRS? I.e. something that uses WLAN if available, switches to GPRS if not, and back to WLAN when it becomes available?00:36
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dagbI intend to combine this with openvpn to have a "poor mans mobile ip"00:38
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kulveSolarion: no hope of getting ogg supported officially01:07
kulveit should support theora too01:09
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Tenkawairssi from an ssh connect to my n80001:14
Tenkawathis is sad01:14
Tenkawabrb... forgot to set a config var01:14
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Tenkawathats better01:15
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wolfganglook that-
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alteregoSays 15th on my clock ..03:05
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pupnikdiscount code not active on yet05:30
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[pablo]anyone have any problems with addblock plus configuration link not showing up in the browser?05:53
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pupnik[pablo]: n800, n810?06:12
halley"addblock"?  disable arithmetic?06:15
[pablo]it's a firefox extension06:15
halleyI think you mean "ad" as in advertisement.06:16
[pablo]thank you for pointing out my typo, I appreciate it06:17
pupnikheh sorry i don't have OS200806:21
pupnikhow are your impressions of the N810 [pablo] ?06:21
[pablo]i love it06:22
[pablo]use it daily, goes everywhere with me06:22
[pablo]i just wish always on data connections weren't so rediculously priced, it would be infinantly more useful06:23
pupnikis the screen good outdoors?06:25
halleyYeah, it's pretty good in bright light.06:27
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pupnikit's fun having flash9 in opera on 77006:50
[pablo]is anyone else even using adblockplus on os2008?06:50
pupniki'm sure a lot of people will06:50
pupnikbut you're kind of at the head of the pack in n810 acquisitiion06:50
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[pablo]well os2008 is on the n800 now06:51
[pablo]for several weeks06:51
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pupnik[pablo]: pls check forums and mailing list for discussion of the problem also - possibly file a bug report06:52
[pablo]i couldn't find anywhere on thier site to file a bug report =/ all the standard garage tracker/forums/etc are not there06:53
[pablo]it appers to not even be installed, even though it is. The config options aren't even in there06:53
pupnik6:00 AM in europe - might find some more people in here in 8 hours06:54
[pablo]looks like there is a huge thread on itt06:55
[pablo]i'll read through that06:55
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tank-mandoes the n800 a sleep/hibernate mode?07:00
jga23anybody able to get fceu on the n810?07:00
[pablo]jga23: nope, it requires libs that are only on os200707:01
jga23is that the only nes emulator for maemo?07:02
[pablo]i believe so07:02
[pablo]wait, does mame do NES?07:02
jga23it has some games07:03
jga23I got xmaeme on the n810, does xmame install?07:03
[pablo]i got it to install, but I have yet to get it to run07:04
[pablo]complains about missing files07:04
jga23hmm, bummer07:04
[pablo]i use ssh+irssi07:06
[pablo]never tried installing xchat on n81007:06
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[pablo]pupnik: got it working =) apparently greasemonkey corrupts the extensions.rdf file07:07
tank-manwhat made you pick the n810 over the n800?07:08
jga23I have both07:08
jga23but the keyboard is the main thing07:08
[pablo]the keyboard07:08
jga23gps was another, but that blows07:08
jacquesblows in what way?07:09
jga23takes 10 mins to lock on07:09
pupnikjga23: did you install FCEU?07:10
jga23no, I wasn't able to07:10
[pablo]yeah, i don't really mention gps as a selling point anymore, because it sucks07:10
[pablo]i heard that the next version of os2008 will have fixes for GPS though07:10
[pablo]hopefully it will be usable07:11
jga23I read that by the time the os2008 is out for n800 they will have a firmware fix for the n81007:11
jga23which hopefully is by the end of the year07:11
jga23out meaning not beta07:11
[pablo]yeah, they will probably come out at the same time, along with a widespread release of the n81007:12
jga23although even with the gps issues, I'm very happy with the n81007:13
[pablo]yes, and it can only get better07:15
[pablo]and it will get better07:15
[pablo]which is awesome07:15
jacqueshmm :-\07:16
jacquessounds like I shold wait on the n81007:16
[pablo]they are so hard to even get right now, it won't make much of a difference heh07:16
[pablo]i go tmine for $75 off is the only reason I got it right away07:17 has em07:17
[pablo]nokiea said they had them when I ordered mine too, they didn't07:17
jga23my buddy ordered his today07:17
penguinbaitnokia website says backordered until dec 1907:17
penguinbaitnokiausa website that is07:18
[pablo]when I ordered mine it was available07:18
[pablo]when I got my confirmation email07:18
[pablo]it was backordered until Nov 27th07:18
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[pablo]that was on like the 14th I think07:18
penguinbaitI never got a confirmation email07:24
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[pablo]penguinbait: never?07:28
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[pablo]did you get charged for it? LOL07:29
[pablo]well, they also require you to give them an email address07:29
[pablo]you might not have done that07:29
penguinbaitsorry,I thought you meant confirmation email saying they were on sale,I misunderstood07:30
[pablo]no it was just my confirmation from the order07:30
penguinbaitI fill out the email address on the nseries website07:31
[pablo]thoughtfix told me the day they went on sale, and I called right away07:31
[pablo](in the US)07:31
penguinbaitI have coupon so I am waiting anyway07:31
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[pablo]dev's get them for $99 Euro right?07:32
penguinbaitsomething like that07:32
penguinbaitthe way the dollar is falling my price goes up daily07:32
[pablo]yeah tell me about it07:33
pupnikhmm i need to get a visa/mc to order07:35
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*** penguinbait has quit IRC07:39 wants visa/mc.  most german purchases can be done through bank transfer07:49
[pablo]really? bank transfers here are rediculously expensive07:51
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pupnikfree here07:55
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SyntraHey guys09:17
SyntraCan someone try OpenTTD on any OS2008 device for me?09:17
doc|homeSyntra: you bastard. Now I'll never do anything productive :(09:18
SyntraYou don't have to09:19
doc|hometell that to my boss :/09:21
[pablo]that game looks like a lot of fun =)09:21
SyntraIt is man09:22
SyntraIts one of the reasons I bought the N80009:22
[pablo]looks like a good enough reason to me =)09:23
SyntraBut its yet to become a reality, sadly09:23
[pablo]it runs on the n800(os2007)?09:23
[pablo]it runs well I take it too?09:23
SyntraHeh, no09:23
[pablo]oh =/09:23
SyntraIt was ported for the 77009:23
SyntraTried the OS05 and OS06 versions09:24
SyntraI'm hoping OS2008 will be different, but I'm waiting for the official release09:24
[pablo]couldn't you try it in the SDK?09:25
SyntraI suppose09:25
SyntraBut that might not be too terribly useful09:26
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pupnikAs soon as the daimonin client is ready at 800x480, we'll take productivity down a couple of notches09:47
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pupnikExult: UI rework and wrapper code, Xu4: UI rework and wrapper code, Dosbox: sdl kbd and launcher...09:48
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pupnikSat Dec 15 08:52:56 CET 200709:54
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cbx33hey anyone up?10:30
cbx33i created a linux gateway the other day but skype seems to have problems connecting through it. is it a stun problem ??10:31
SkrylarHave any of you experienced an odd problem where when you play a stream in mplayer, mplayer doesn't want to take the foreground until the end of the video?10:32
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Skrylarhow in the world do I type an escape on this keyboard :S10:54
Skrylarfound it :D10:56
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RocketmanI love to irc while I walk12:34
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ttmrichterIs there a good introduction to packaging software into .deb files?  I've compiled the Erlang OTP distribution for the N800 and would like to make it generally available.12:35
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Rocketman12Anyone got a way of setting a longer illumination time on the n810?12:38
Rocketman12for the keyboard12:38
pupnikprobably a gconf setting12:39
pupnikhave you tried maemo-mapper with the gps yet Rocketman12 ?12:40
Rocketman12with the built in or external?12:41
Rocketman12The built in gps hardware sucks, quite simply12:42
tontsayeah so far i haven't managed to get gps fix with the internal12:42
Rocketman12Exceedingly long lock times...if at all12:42
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tontsaso i dunno why they even bothered12:42
Rocketman12never more than 5 sats locked even with clear horizons12:43
Rocketman12poor receive sensitivity12:43
Rocketman12they bothered for the bullet point of the spec sheet12:43
Rocketman12My $30 Holux M-1000 is infinitely superior12:44
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tontsawell even the nokia's external gps dongle works better, but even that takes 2-3 mins for fix12:45
pupnik$30 for a gps unit?12:45
Rocketman1230-45 second lock times in almost any condition12:45
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Rocketman12and usually keeps 7-9 sats locked in even urban canyon type environments12:46
Rocketman12thing is size of a box of matches and lasts a full day (20+ hrs) on a charge12:47
Rocketman12Yeah, eBay is wonderful12:47
Rocketman12The MTK chipsets are >> better than Sirf III imo12:48
Rocketman12I think they do 32 channel while Sirf III is something like 2012:48
Rocketman12really helps with skyscrappers12:49
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Rocketman12pupnik, any idea what the gconf setting might be pupnik?12:52
pupnikno - but it's a search term that might help you get lucky with an answer12:52
pupniki want to use gps for biking tours in the woods12:53
pupnikgetting lost at the end of a biking day, dehydrated and low on sugar really sucks12:53
tontsagps generally works really bad in woods12:54
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tontsaatleast these civilian dongles without extra antenna12:55
pupnikwell there are always clearings12:55
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Rocketman12You might want to invest in one of these gps units that do inertial tracking when you don't have sat lock13:00
Rocketman12last time I checked you could get them for under $1000 and that was probably a year and a half ago13:01
Rocketman12surely cheaper now13:01
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alteregoSo much for "by the 15th" ..16:01
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* Jaffa wonders whether to raise one bug for in bugzilla for the general crapness of the UI design for scrolling in OS2008 apps, or one for each application.16:03
alteregoOne for each ;)16:04
alteregoBut copy & paste ^_^16:04
alteregoBrowser finger scrolling is aweful on some sites.16:04
Jaffaalterego: exactly what I was thinking16:05
JaffaMaybe one parent in Desktop > User interaction and then others related to that16:05
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alteregoDoesn't look like I'm gonna be able to get 64bit debian installed :(16:05
* alterego starts downloading the 64bit ubuntu install CD.16:05
alteregoI could do a bootstrap I guess.16:06
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alteregoI don't really like the ITT site either.16:18
alteregoBut that has nothing to do with maemo really.16:18
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alteregoYou'd think, creating a website for the internet tablet community. And you can barely use it on device :/16:18
BeBrawironic web design16:19
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BeBrawhow much does N800 cost these days?16:19
alterego200 GBP16:19
alterego~400 USD16:20
BeBrawk. i hope some version contains GSM in the future16:20
alteregoThat'd be rubbish16:20
alteregoByt the time the tablets have GSM, GSM will have been superseded by something else.16:21
BeBrawi could easily replace my phone with that16:21
BeBrawright. that's true16:21
alteregoYou'd look like an idiot walking down the street talking on a tablet :P16:21
BeBrawone of those bluetooth speaker setups would do the trick16:21
alteregoJust, for a moment, pretend that these devices aren't actually developed by Nokia, they're developed by maemo ..16:21
BeBrawon of the coolest aspects of the device is that it is really easy to develop software for it16:22
shackanalterego: you're saying people look like idiots using skype on the tablet?16:23
alteregoSure, I'm merely saying. That if the device wasn't developed by Nokia. You wouldn't expect any GSM functionality :P16:23
BeBrawi have been playing with pymaemo, pygtk and glade a bit. really nice :)16:23
alteregoshackan, I was refering to having it attached to the side of your head ;)16:23
shackanheh, at least you don't have to hold it like the old N-Gage16:24
alteregoI don't like using handsfree kits with phones. So I'm unlikely to every have a use for GSM _in_ the device. Except for the internet.16:24
alteregoWhich means I'd still need a seperate phone, which then proves to me that there's no point in having GSM in the device :)16:25
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shackanalterego: and people (at least me) don't want to carry too much stuff around, and I'm more likely to carry my phone therefore having to leave the tablet at home (also because it's completely useless unless you have wifi around, which is never the case)16:25
alteregoYou don't use your phone as a modem?16:25
* alterego likes using his phone as a modem ..16:26
shackanno, my phone doesn't even have bluetooth (so I'd need a new phone, and I'd rather get a n810, but I won't because I could only buy one thing)16:26
alteregoYou can get pretty cheap phones with BT and EDGE ..16:27
shackanthat's not the point, we have no dataplans in this country, I just wanted to make and receive calls without having to carry too much gear, that's all16:28
alteregoGet a hand bag you girl :P16:28
alteregoMy tablet fits snugly in my left hand trouser pocket. And my phone is nicely in my right.16:29
alteregoMind you, I'm probably pretty infertile by now ^_^16:29
shackanmmm, my n800 is huge in my trouser pocket16:29
shackanI can't even sit16:29
shackanand btw, if they can fit a gps into something the size of a coin, gsm modules should be pretty much integrated by now, and they're cheap16:30
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tontsaGPS in n810 is crap atleast16:31
shackanwell, no idea16:31
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JaffaFeel free to vote for y'all16:35
astro76voted... and I wish everyone would forget about fat scrollbars16:38
astro76what a bad idea16:38
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pupnikdragging things via kinetic scrolling is a better ui than scrollbars for a tablet/finger device16:40
fysaSHUT UP16:40
fysaGO AWAY16:40
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fysa(just on the right side)16:41
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fysa(and only for the browser)16:41
fysaall of this hard work trying to trick timeless into implementing fat scrollbars could go awry ;)16:41
pupnikok i delete my opinion16:42
fysawhy?  because they are adamantly against kinetic scrolling16:42
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pupnikwell dragging something around seems more intuitive than bars16:43
pupnikwith or without kinetic energy16:43
fysa'multiplied' scrolling would work for me.16:43
fysai.e., move your finger 20 pixels, the screen scrolls 30-50.  just something to get out of the dragging treadmill we have now16:43
pupnikhm yah.  also would be so nice if the cpu didn't have to draw the window when scrolling stuff16:45
pupnikbut that's maybe 2008 or 2009 tech16:45
pupnikwell, 1978 tech16:46
fysathe problem is the 'design documentation' that 'official' apps must adhere to.16:46
fysabut if someone were to clean up and repackage the grabanddrag extension..16:47
fysa(as soon as I have a bit more time, I will give it a shot if no one else does by then)16:48
fysayou can use this extension now.16:48
fysain Firefox..16:48
fysain fact, you can run this extension on a remote Firefox and use VNC or rdesktop to control it.16:48
fysaand have kinetic firefox.16:49
pupnikinteresting stuff16:49
fysasupports 'flick'16:50
fysawhere you push on the screen, then flick your finger to page around16:50
fysaand 'momentum' - i.e., kinetic16:50
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pupnikflick detects fast motion, otherwise the scrolling is by dragging?16:51
fysaI think it's just a matter of how far your finger travels and at what speed.16:51
fysathere is tons of configuration options, I'm sure it's all adjustable16:51
fysaif your finger goes further down the screen without lifting, you get momentum based on that speed16:51
fysaif your finger moves short but very fast, you get a flick (quick speed up for X distance, then quick speed down)16:52
pupnikhaving that behavior selectable in browser preferences would be sweet16:52
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fysadon't know what kind of work it would take yet to get basic behavior working, but trying to make some time before the end of January to get into it16:53
* Jaffa wonders whether gradanddrag would conflict with the scrolling the browser's trying to do itself.16:54
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timelyJaffa: thanks for filing that maps bug16:57
timelyit's one of many complaints i have16:57
pupnikfor me, dpad up/down would be good for paging, not selecting links16:57
timelypupnik: there's a pref you can set to deal w/ that16:57
timelyi think that's what you want16:57
pupniku r cool16:58
timelyit's all someone else's fault16:58
timelyboth the fact that we have the default feature16:58
timelyand enough research to undo it16:58
timelyi really should write news articles explaining such features16:58
timelythat'd be moderately useful16:58
pupnikwhat is that - os2007?16:58
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timelythe feature/requirement that arrows do something wonky16:59
pupnikit is a bora deb?16:59
timelyum, hopefully "it just works"?16:59
timelyif my deb doesn't work on 2.x/3.x/4.x please let me know?17:00
pupnikhow can i make a deb that app mgr can install on 2006 and 2007 both?17:00
pupnik(it's for a sdl game that works on both)17:00
* timely shrugs17:00
timelyi construct debs by hand17:00
timelyi haven't investigated .install files yet17:00
timelyi think in theory, a deb doesn't know where it can be used17:01
timelyit merely says "i need X" "i can't be used with Y"17:01
pupnikno, i get complaints from application manager when installing debs from file17:01
timelydeciding when to use a deb is controlled by placement (in a repository)17:01
timelydid it complain about my file(s)?17:01
pupnikdo not have microb17:01
timelyoh, ...17:02
pupnikbut i will test and learn more about this17:02
timelyi hope my deb complained if you didn't have microb, it clearly won't work w/o that :)17:02
timelybut microb on 2006, 2007, or 2008 should be happy17:02
pupnikvery cool17:02
timelythe package name was microb-pageupdown, not tablet-browser-pageupdown :)17:02
* timely wonders if it's possible to disable the feature in opera17:03
pupniki deduced that17:03
pupnikno more coffee for you timely17:03
timelyit's 5pm, maybe lunch?17:05
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Jaffatimely: no probs on the Maps bugs. Having been playing with an N810 for a day or so, I thought I'd go bugzilla-tastic.17:06
killfillany news on canola?.. :)17:06
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* timely frowns17:08
timelyi think the top picture looks a lot better than the bottom picture17:08
timelyshe's cute :)17:08
timelysadly, his demo pictures look better than the other demo pictures i see17:09
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killfillwhat software do you guys use for streaming audio/video to the n8x0?..17:10
timelykillfill: i use my n81 :)17:10
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timelyoh that sucks17:11
Jaffakillfill: I use my mediaserv: stole the picture from browser-extras17:11
Jaffatimely: well, he *did* ask ;-)17:12
timelyoh sure :)17:12
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Jaffaxmlns:jaffa does consist of *many* ...plug elements :)17:12
timelytypically end tags don't include attributes17:12
timelybut i'll accept that there were probably various attributes on the begin tag :)17:12
killfillJaffa: wow.. looks cool17:14
killfilllook to be a "backend" for video center (didnt know about it neither..)17:15
fysacan we get mediaserv working with mplayer? :)17:15
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JaffaYou can use it without Video Center and just use the web UI17:15
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Jaffafysa: yeah, 1) Video Center lets you configure mplayer forplayback, 2) 770 users have to do that anyway, since Media Player on OS2006 is crap at handling streaming. I was going to say the README says how to do that, but it doesn't seem that it does in the current version.17:16
timelypupnik: out of curiosity, why don't you have microb?17:16
fysai.e., I can play 652x3xx 1600kbps xvid natively in mplayer, but would still want to re-encode higher than that based on resolution.17:16
Jaffafysa: cool17:18
Jaffatimely: that deb works fine with Web on OS2008, btw (as I'm sure you already know). Thanks a lot for that.17:19
fysaI have an mplayer-based .sh that analyzes resolution/codec/autocrops and uses a ~/.mplayer/config-xxx 'profile' accordingly17:19
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fysacould something like this (or is it already?) be used with tablet-encode to not touch certain files?17:19
Jaffatablet-encode will just copy the stream if it's lower resolution, is DivX, and has a width/height divisible by 16 compared with the preset. So, if you created a preset at 652x3xx @ 1600kbps, it wouldn't touch those files, but would touch the higher ones.17:20
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fysanow I have something to do today. ;)17:23
fysait looks good.17:23
fysaI see it has an RSS feed also.17:23
killfilloh.. videocenter is not ready for os2007 jet..17:26
pupniktimely: i don't use the 770 to surf much now that I have dsl17:27
killfillJaffa: it transcode video only right?.. im actually looking for mainly two things: stream audio, and stream fotos from a server17:28
killfillany sugestion is welcome.. :)17:29
JaffaI'd guess you want some kind of UPnP server. Never found one for Linux I got on with, TBH17:29
zerojayAll of them suck.17:30
JaffaThat'd explain it :)17:30
killfillwhat sucks.. the upnp's?17:30
jeddy3coherence has potential17:31
devwhat wrong with the one I'm working on?
killfillany special reason for it?.. ive hear its not NAT friendly.. but apart of that..17:31
devjeddy3: thx ;-)17:31
jeddy3it has17:31
Jaffadev: I'll have a look17:32
devJaffa: it even works _on_ the nokia itself17:32
Jaffadev: the file-system backend for MediaServer would seem to do what I'd want for audio UPnP at home17:33
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devkillfill: UPnP isn't intended to work outside a lan, but there is work in progress to define a "remote upnp spec"17:33
fysaXBMC Linux has a built-in UPNP server.17:34
fysawhich seems like it will be decent once setup.17:34
fysamediatomb works OK -- I have transcoding working with that, but it's sketchy17:34
fysayour best solutions are probably mediaserv or TVersity..17:35
fysaI have nfs mount working now, but it breaks more than it's worth.17:35
* killfill anotating thouse names..17:35
fysaTVersity is Windows -- probably the best uPNP server out there, the XBox 360/PS3 community use it to transcode to supported formats in real-time17:36
fysaand I believe it has an N800 profile.17:36
devJaffa: the filesystem backend works fine so far with all clients, from Nokia MediaStreamer to PS317:36
killfilloh my server is a freebsd box17:37
killfilldev: coherence wiki is full of info. thanks for pointing it out. :)17:37
devkillfill: you're welcome17:38
devJaffa: if you can use the MediaDB backend17:39
devJaffa: it lacks automatic adding of new files, but it has id3 tagging support, an album-art fetcher and organizes the files in an "all tracks", albums and artist structure17:41
fysaJaffa: would it be possible to get a dropdown profile selector in the web interface?  i.e. If I'm not home, I'd like to use a lower bandwidth profile for streaming?17:43
Jaffafysa: it's been requested. I've not done any work on it yet, though17:51
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killfillisnt there a installer for mono on os2008 jet?18:02
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zoranI know18:03
zoranlooks dead even on regular pc18:04
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penguinbaitare we having fun yet?18:38
Sho_not yet. too cold, no n810 :-)18:43
* vegai concurs18:44
vegaiChristmas is in jeopardy18:44
vegaiin fact, Nokia is waging a war against christmas!18:44
hugolpgood for Nokia then18:44
hugolpChristmas is bullshit18:45
Sho_You could also say the Christians are waging a war against the IT community with their holidays disrupting shipping lanes ;)18:45
vegaiwar against Yule18:45
zoranhave a picture of n810 and be happy again18:46
penguinbaitSho, its cold here, and no n810 yet either18:59
penguinbaitbut I am still having fun18:59
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Sho_penguinbait: Still porting our stuff over? What's the latest? :)19:02
penguinbaitxrdp and x11vnc19:03
penguinbaitcdrom/DVD device support19:04
Sho_penguinbait: Tried doing KDE 4 yet? :-)19:05
penguinbaituh not yet, I just finished 3.5.8 with Koffice19:05
zoranit is said 4 is about 40% less demanding19:06
penguinbaitwell there was a guy in here, gnuton, I think, he was a KDE developer and said he was porting KDE419:07
penguinbaitI will probably get to it in a few months, if its not already out there19:07
* Sho_ is a KDE developer as well, fwiw19:08
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penguinbaithas any speed testing been done with internal 2GB on n810?19:08
penguinbaitSho: I am just a hack :)19:08
Sho_mkruisselbrink put Plasma (which is our new desktop and panel app/framework) on a Neo1973 earlier this week - should be much nicer on an IT :-)19:09
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penguinbaitSho have you tried KDE on tablet19:11
Sho_penguinbait: Not yet, sadly - I only very briefly had an N800, and am currently waiting for the N810 discount code to go live :-)19:11
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penguinbaitI am waiting for the same thing19:12
penguinbaitso are you developing anything?19:12
Sho_penguinbait: I was going to look into making Qt4 work with the input method framework, so it works with the onscreen keyboards19:13
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tank-manwho is eligable for the discount code?19:13
penguinbaittank-man, the people who applied for it and were accepted19:14
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dick-richardsonhow do you clear ash history in os2008?19:17
Sho_time to cook dinner - bbl19:17
penguinbaitI am very excited about the possibility of KDE4 being ported by someone who knows what they are doing.  Cause quite honestly, I can run configure, make, and make install all day long, and I am pretty good at troubleshooting compile issues.  But I am unable to change any code19:17
penguinbaitanything good?19:18
penguinbaitrm .ash_history in home dir19:19
zorantype /dev/null > .ash_history19:19
penguinbaityou may then need to touch it19:19
penguinbaitor that19:19
zorancould complain about not having right to do that, but will remove the content19:19
zoransome shells have option to put the ine in >logout19:20
zoranand ".logout"19:20
bodhammerWhat is the status of Discount purchases for developers?19:21
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bodhammerI got a code on Nov. 12 but have not seen anything since for instructions on where to purchase the N810.19:24
penguinbaitsupposed to be next week bodhammer19:28
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Andy80hi all19:39
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bodhammerpenguinbait:  Thx,  any idea how much of a discount Nokia is offering?  It's been a rough Xmas on the credit card already!20:03
vegai=> 100 currency units, I think20:04
bodhammerWhat is the best way to start chasing down runtime errors when porting?  I'm getting a clean compile for a project from GNU source but it crashes when I run it.20:08
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halleyvegai, 100 currency units is pretty meaningless if you count JPY ;)20:11
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Vulc|NotHereso another few days until canola...20:22
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Ed77Hi all20:44
hahloHi Ed7720:44
Ed77can anybody answer gtk-related questions here?20:44
elbif your question is related to tablet development, your best bet on IRC is always to ask, not ask to ask20:45
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gomiamEd77: not anybody, but perhaps you might get an answer if you make a good, concise, to the point question20:46
elbif it's a generic Gtk+ question, you'll want to take it to #gtk on gimpnet (or wherever they currently hang out)20:46
Ed77ok, I'll try :)20:46
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Juhazit's #gtk+20:47
Juhazand yes, gimpnet.20:47
Ed77I wrote simple gtk program and when I run it from commandline under root everything is OK. But when I put it in postinst script of my package and install this package style of my widgets (labels and button) is different. What should I do to make it default maemo style?20:48
elbwhat does your postinst script *do*?20:49
elbnopasting it might be helpful20:49
Ed77It doesn't matter. What matters is when this program is run by application manager style of widgets is changed.20:50
Ed77If I install package by dpkg or apt style is ok.20:51
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Ed77In my code I parse default gtkrc file, so theoretically styles should be set from there. But practically it doesn't work.20:52
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hillctWhat's the password for root in OS2008 ?20:53
Ed77And I think it's not related to gtk, it should be something maemo-specific.20:53
hillcter the default root pw20:53
gomiamhillct: it should still be rootme20:54
gomiambut what do I know20:54
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hillctaparently not20:55
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Atariianyone know a way to stop kismet and similar wireless monitoring tools to stop finding ghost clients/networks?20:55
Atariii think its a prob with the drivers on the nokia20:55
gomiamAtarii: it _is_ a problem with the drivers. Unfortunately I have found no workaround20:55
hillctthis is what I get for updating a perfectly working OS2007 setup to OS200820:55
gomiamAtarii: I follow this procedure to scan networks.20:56
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gomiam1) attempt to connect to a WiFi net, but stop after seen which ones are available20:56
gomiam2) run airodump a first time in order to find the channel the interesting network is on20:57
gomiam3) run airodump again on that channel20:57
gomiam4) Pray no bogus traffic gets labelled WPA/WPA220:57
gomiam5) Once enough traffic is available, crack20:57
Atariido u still get ghost clients?20:58
gomiamyes, but I don't care too much about them anyway20:58
gomiamit's the WEP key I want to crack ;-)20:58
Atariii just got wifizoo running on the 770, but theres so much garbage data its worthless running it20:58
gomiamAtarii: I would test the aircrack-ng suite20:58
gomiamit doesn't get too much garbage20:59
Atariii tried it b4, but it still went a bit crazy, mite try the latest version20:59
gomiamit doesn't work too badly. Now, if airodump-ng was able to drop bad-formed packets...21:00
shackangomiam: how long does it take for wep on average?21:00
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Atariimaybe we could alter the source to drop MACs like FF:FF:***** etc, that would help filter a bit21:01
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gomiamwell, the latest aircrack-ng software has the PTW method, which is supposedly effective with just over 40K packets21:02
gomiamunfortunately I don't know how to make a N800 inject packets, so gathering is quite slow usually21:02
gomiameven more, Spain's main phone operator, Telefonica, uses a brain-dead scheme to create WEP keys21:03
gomiamit's so damned easy that there's only 64K keys to test21:03
shackanoh, they provide wep enabled routers?21:03
gomiamonce you have four or more data packets it's trivial to dictionary attack them21:03
gomiamshackan: yes, they do. At least they provide some factory-set security21:04
gomiamJazztel gives you an open router, so there is no need to even crack it XD21:04
shackanlucky you :D here we get lots of wifi routers issued by the main telecom operator, but they all com with wpa2 by default21:04
shackanyou can't find them almost anywhere21:05
gomiamshackan: yeah, it's quite useful. At the flat I share with some friends I have already cracked a couple of networks so I can connect my laptop there XD21:05
gomiamof course, having a ZyDAS 1211rw USB card with external antenna helps a lot with coverage :-)21:06
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shackanwell, I've been routinely using an open wireless network which is 200 metres from here, which perfect indoor reception21:07
gomiamW O W21:07
shackanno idea how it can happen, but it does21:07
gomiamnow that is a natural parabolic room you have XD21:07
shackanof course now I have broadband and don't 'lease' it anymore21:08
gomiamof course, of course... XD21:08
Fang64Sorry to just barge in, anyone had trouble with ncurses installation on the n800? Cause I can't seem to get it installed21:09
gomiamFang64: not me, on OS200721:09
Fang64I've tried acouple times I've had to manually remove the package it seems it wont install gives me some mess about a clear file21:10
Fang64it's been mentioned in the chat previous i went googling for a solution ran into this chat lol21:11
Fang64I've also tried wiping out OS2007 with a reflash twice now so it's kind of a loss at the moment to what is causing it unless maemo-hackers repository is broken or maybe busybox hates ncurses not really sure though21:13
Fang64specifically the ncurses-bin21:13
tontsancurses works here atleast with 0s2008, busybox and screen21:13
Fang64uhm.. or maybe I'm crazy lol21:14
tontsayou could just try to unpack the .deb and place the lib in /usr/lib :)21:15
Fang64not a bad idea21:15
Fang64it still would be nice to know why that package isn't behaving properly21:15
tontsadpkg doesn't complain or anything?21:16
Fang64it does21:16
Fang64mentions /usr/bin/clear21:16
Fang64it attempts to rename it21:16
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Fang64I tried making a fake file it didn't like that lol21:16
tontsaweird stuff21:16
Fang64I know there is a busybox.clear file dunno if it's related21:16
tontsadidn't os2007 have bash at some point?21:17
Fang64actually let me link you to the error someone else posted it up as well21:17
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Fang64that's the identical situation I have21:18
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Fang64Unique311 mentioned it here in this chat which I'm not sure if he figured it out21:19
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tontsai don't know that much about os2007, but has it always come with busybox?21:20
tontsaor did it have bash at some point21:20
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Fang64I think you can get bash shell21:21
Fang64but it has busybox out of the box21:21
Fang64at least since I've had mine21:21
Fang64I haven't had it but for 2 weeks now21:21
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skiburI was trying to stick to the one month with my N800, but I couldn't.21:23
skiburI couldn't do simple stuff21:23
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skiburN800 - OS2008 still needs apps21:23
tontsaFang64, yeah looks like your repo that comes with ncurses is braindamaged or never has been installed on actual n800/os200721:23
Fang64that's why I haven't moved up21:23
L0cutusseems it is now available also in Italy :)21:24
Fang64what repo has a copy of ncurses-bin that works21:24
Fang64seems that was a fail21:24
skiburso is it safe to say that N810 has the official OS2008?21:24
tontsaskibur, mine has atleast21:25
tontsai bought it this friday21:25
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Fang64I ran the OS2008 when I first got it to play around abit the applications definitely are lacking but, I was running the N810 version via fake macid21:26
Fang64decided to switch back when I looked at the repo21:27
tontsawell there's lots of thirdparty repos with stuff21:27
tontsaatleast only thing i'm missing right now is vnc21:27
tontsaother stuff is there21:27
Fang64 thats where I went to hunt for it21:28
skiburTontsa, you bought N810?21:28
tontsayep that page has nice list of repos21:28
tontsaskibur, yep21:28
Fang64ncurses from there was a fail lol21:28
tontsaFang64, maybe check if multiple repos have ncurses21:28
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skiburI was going to buy N810, but I decided on the N80021:29
tontsai love the keyboard on n81021:29
Fang64uhm your right but I remember trying the other two and they wouldn't work but I'll try again21:29
skiburI hope that the WiMAx chip will come soon21:29
Fang64didn't verizon say they are coming out with the N800 WiMax Enabled21:29
Fang64or is nokia planning to release a SD WiMax card or something?21:30
Fang64or bluetooth21:31
tontsabluetooth wimax wouldn't make much sens21:32
Fang64it'd be horrible21:33
skibur30 feet internet21:33
tontsai'm guessing it's either SD card or just totally new unit with diffrent radio21:33
skiburhum... Wimax SD card21:33
skiburis that even possible?21:33
Fang64well there is a WiMax chip destined for a SD card21:34
* |R happy: nokia is activating discount codes for canadians! :]21:34
Fang64not sure who is going to get it21:34
tontsawell there exists wlan sd cards so i'm sure it's possible21:34
Fang64it was on engadget or something I was reading21:34
tontsahow much are you guys getting discount21:35
skiburDo you really think nokia would wanna sell sd card Wimax chips?  when they can easily sell you a new N800 unit for more money?21:35
Fang64it wouldn't be nokia21:36
Fang64it'd probably be the providers themselves21:36
Fang64but I doubt the N800 will get it just saying there will be SD WiMax cards just not meant for the N80021:36
|Rtontsa : i'm not sure yet what the canadian price will be... it was 99 euros21:37
tontsaif wimax is over there provider oriented, then i guess you will just see "special editions" sold by the provider21:37
|R(final price, not a discount)21:37
tontsathat's a huge discount then21:37
tontsai had to pay 560 euros for n81021:38
Fang64verizon I believe has a branded version coming21:38
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tontsabut that was just because i was eager to get the unit, so i bought it straight from nokia's walk-in shop21:39
tontsathe actual price is around 450 euros when big retailers get their stock21:39
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Andy80just a question... I live in Italy and our government is doing the challenge to assign the wimax licenses..... so we haven't wimax yet... anyway the question is: which are the countries where wimax is already active and working?21:40
tontsawe have it here in Finland.. but it's damn expensive21:40
Fang64we have it here stateside if you wanna pay 50~70 dollars a month21:40
Fang64at least where I am at on the east coast21:41
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Andy80tontsa, Fang64 : what about the coverage of wimax? is it really accessible from everywhere, just like we have UMTS connection?21:42
Fang64I couldn't tell you I don't know anyone using it in my area21:43
tontsaAndy80, the coverage is gradually building.. over there it's mainly targetted for "summer cottage" areas21:43
Fang64most people use EDGE or EVDO if they want Internet on the go21:43
Sho_Here in Germany there are only a few small WIMAX networks for corporate users that partially cover some of the bigger cities - the big carrier companies haven't touched it so far, afaik21:43
Fang64which is 3G internet service basically21:43
Andy80mmm.... interesting...21:43
tontsaproblem with wimax is the available bandwith per basestation21:44
Fang64I have a friend who actually uses EVDO for his Internet service at his home with a router which provides around 300~500kbps21:44
Andy80Fang64: yes... we (italy) mainly use UMTS (300 kbits) and, recently HDSPA (about 3,4 Mbits) to connect21:44
Fang64which isn't bad for 3g21:44
tontsasince you can get wide coverage per basestation so operators here are atleast struggling to provider better than 1mbps for user21:44
Fang64I'm in North Carolina, Charlotte which is quite a big city at least for my area but that's about the only place providing WiMax21:45
Andy80I think this: if wimax/hdspa was more spread... we could basically always use VOIP instead of expensive mobile phones :P21:45
skiburI was just thinking...  If its going to be 50-70 dollars, is it going to be unlimited ACCESS?  :P21:45
Fang64well here it is21:46
Andy8050$ for unlimited access, considering I could use VOIP everywhere... well... it's cheap :)21:46
Fang64I believe AT&T wants to implement WiMax here as well they already have the infrastructure in place just need to turn the services on21:47
Andy80actually we pay 50-90 euros to have about 1000-1500 minutes/month of mobile phone calling21:47
Andy80without internet access21:47
skiburOn December 5, 2007, Bin Shen, Sprint's VP of Product Management and Partnership Development, announced that Sprint's WiMAX network will go live in a soft launch in Chicago, Baltimore, and Washington DC. Full commercial launch is still expected to be approximately spring of 2008.21:48
Fang64They keep sending out newsletters informing customers of new services coming up one of them they tout is WiMax dunno if it'll happen21:48
Fang64yet at least21:48
Fang64Verizon tacks on 15 dollars a month for internet services if you want to pair your phone with a device21:49
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Fang64I'm paying 50 dollars a month as is21:49
Andy80Fang64: you pay 50$ to have what exactly?21:50
Fang64just mobile service and 700 minutes of calling21:50
Fang64if I tacked on 15 bucks21:50
Fang64I'd could get data service21:50
Andy80how much does it cost an UMTS data service there? (UMTS is about 300-350 kbits/s)21:51
Fang64The only reason I haven't AT&T have a blanket over the city with WiFi Towers21:51
Fang64if you have AT&T Broadband service you get their WiFi access with it21:51
Fang64I rarely not seea WiFi tower marked att21:51
Andy80no... I mean something accessible from everywhere (everywhere your mobile phone has signal)21:52
Fang64verizon tacking on Vcast will get you the internet21:52
Fang64which is 15 a month21:52
Andy80for example... we have a very cheap solution here... I pay 9€ / month to have unlimited (in time) UMTS connection, but limited to 50 mb/day21:52
Fang64that's anywhere you have a signal21:52
Fang64no limit21:53
Andy80ah cool...21:53
Fang64Verizon pumps Video over their Vcast service21:53
Fang64so it has to have some speed21:53
Fang64you can watch tv on your phone21:53
Fang64which is a bit overkill21:53
Andy80very very cool :)21:53
skiburI'm learn a lot about the WiMax on Wiki. :)21:53
Fang64I think if they limited you to 50mb on that service jesus21:53
Fang64you couldn't watch a show21:54
Andy80Fang64: I cannot use youtube too ;)21:54
Fang64AT&T has similar services21:54
skiburNo more Chocolate RAIN!!!21:54
Andy80Fang64: but there are other data plans, for example... you get 5 Gb/week for only 20 euro/month21:54
Fang64problem with them they are crazy priced21:54
Andy80but... in this case you have to sign a contract with them for at least 2 years21:55
fysaI believe you can get a Boost prepaid voice phone with tethering data for $12/mo21:55
Fang64yup Nextel has dataservice plans as well i believe they are a bit more though21:56
Fang64and so does sprint21:56
fysayeah, but they don't work with prepaid voice21:56
Fang64even though they are the same company everything is still a big mess21:56
fysathey do?21:56
Fang64Nextel and Sprint both have data services21:56
Fang64well it's the same company two types of service21:56
Fang64one is over GSM the other is CDMA21:57
Fang64it's getting a bit mixed but it's still sort of split service21:57
fysahow much?21:57
Andy80anyway... with 20 euro/month, 5 gb/week dataplan, you get 3,4 Mbit connection, don't forget it :)21:57
Fang64well for unlimited it was like 10$ a month but that isn't tethering21:57
Fang64that's just for wap access21:57
Fang64they have different plans21:58
Fang64like 50$ rate for unlimited21:58
Fang64at least last time I checked21:58
Fang64this was 3 years ago21:58
Fang64because you could use it as a broadband modem with a usb cable21:58
fysaI'd like to find a cheap tethering setup and use one of those pocket wifi devices to share it out21:59
Fang64jesus it's went up21:59
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Fang6460 dollars a month21:59
fysaand keep it in the car21:59
Andy80yes... it's the thing I do with my N770 device :) offcourse via bluetooth ;)21:59
Fang64for unlimited service21:59
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Fang64Nextel/Sprint = out of their minds21:59
Fang6440 dollars if you want 20mb limit21:59
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timelessandy80: s/n770/nokia 770/22:03
Andy80yes.... Nokia 770, N800, N810.... just an abbreviation :)22:04
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timelessblame nokia22:10
timelessbut please don't abbreviate that way22:10
timelessnokia could easily make a product by that name22:10
shackantheir problem :)22:10
halleyEr, I'm not going to be badgered on how to abbreviate things based on some corporation's possible trademark status, future or present.22:11
halleyDid you also grow up correcting your friends when they said "Legos"?22:11
Fang64I hate repos with rogue packages been fighting with this error for 2 days now22:12
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zxczxcAlex look that-
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timelessi correct my coworkers22:12
timelessis that sufficient?22:12
halleySounds like something for /msg or email then.22:14
timelessif someone said they were using Debian Linux22:17
timelessbut they were actually using Red Hat Linux22:17
gomiamerm... does Skype support video conferencing on N800?22:17
timelesswould you correct them?22:17
Fang64Tontsa: thanks for helping me out although it should have been common sense22:17
timelessnot on the n810 either for that matter22:17
gomiamoh, funny. I thought some version already supported it. It isn't critical anyway22:18
gomiamafter thinking a bit about it, I'm starting to see the N810 as a bad proposition for a tinkerer: just one _micro_SD slot, integrated GPS receiver (that may or may not be turned off at will)...22:19
gomiamperhaps I'm rationalizing, but I find the ability of connecting things by Bluetooth on a whim a bit more interesting.22:19
gomiamnot that it matters, though.22:19
gomiamI'm not going to buy the N810 any time soon yet.22:20
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timelessgomiam: that's your right22:20
gomiamand my left ;-)22:20
timelesspersonally, i'd buy an n800 and a nice bt gps22:20
gomiamtimeless: I already have. Now I have to ponder whether to get a Palm Bluetooth keyboard to round it all up22:21
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fysaI bought one of those new Apple Wireless keyboards (the thin/small one with full-sized keys) for my N800 and it ended up replacing the big IBM M keyboard for my desktop too.22:24
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doublecheh, comp usa are advertising the N810 as Nokia N810 Wireless Phone22:25
* timeless cries22:27
timelessremind me on monday to contact someone here so we can complain22:27
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timelessSOLD OUT for delivery22:27
* timeless frowns22:28
timelesstheir description of flash9 is wrong22:28
timelessthe flash9 we ship doesn't include camera22:28
timelessor microphone22:28
timelessoh man22:29
timelessand the English is terrible22:29
* timeless curses22:29
timelesscan't they find a native speaker to at least proof read the text?22:29
fysathey fired everyone, remember?22:30
timelessi don't mean compusa22:30
timelessi mean nokia22:30
doublecproduct descriptions are always awlful and often wrong22:32
doublecin NZ vodafone often get the spec's of the nokia phones wrong22:32
doubleclike they'll say it has a radio when it doesn't, or that it has wireless when it doesn't, etc22:32
doublecare the n810's actually on sale?22:33
timelessdoublec: nz doesn't have consumer protection rules that enable you to sue or something?22:33
timelessn810s have been on sale/sold out for weeks :)22:34
timelessit's like Wii's, but w/ fewer stores22:34
doublectimeless: we have a 'consumer guarantees act' that means you can take stuff back, get compensation, etc22:34
doublecI'm in the US for two more days so was hoping to find a lone N810 somewhere22:34
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timelessgood luck w/ that22:34
doublecyes, it's proving a challenge :)22:34
* timeless suggests just having moco ship two back22:35
doublechmmm, good idea22:35
doublecI'd be lost without my N800 literally22:35
doublecmaemo-mapper, bluetooth gps and google maps have helped me drive around here22:35
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doubleceven though I keep missing my freeway exits22:35
timelessbtw, you might consider
* Jaffa tries to find a suction or vent-clip for the back of an N810 car mount: screwing into my dashboard ain't never gonna happen.22:35
timelessdepending on how you use your browser22:36
doublecand I didn't believe maemo mapper when it told me where my hotel was and drove around for ages22:36
Jaffatimeless: you should upload that to extras-devel22:36
doublecand it ended up being right22:36
timelessjaffa: "how" :)22:36
timelessdoublec; heh22:37
timelessyou don't trust computers? :)22:37
doublecdefinitely not :)22:37
doublecwho knew that e el camino real and w el camino real swap at random points along the road22:37
fysais it possible to get microb to launch mplayer?22:37
timelessdoublec: i could have told you that :)22:38
timelessfysa: care to be more specific?22:38
fysa'Media player' is the default app when I open an .avi22:38
timelessfysa: that's controlled by .desktop files22:38
timelessbasically if you change the media player file22:39
skiburhum... I guess I will wait a little longer for the official OS2008 bin for N800.22:39
timelessto claim less file types22:39
timelessskibur: good for you22:39
timelessfysa: alternatively, you could muck w/ the mime db which is generated from those files22:40
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timelessbut it's definitely better to make sure the .desktop files don't stick around and regenerate them22:40
fysa-> /usr/share/applications/[application_name].desktop22:40
timelessfysa: give me info for where your mplayer .desktop file is, and i'll write a deb to "fix" this :)22:40
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fysawe would want to specifiy the MimeType= in the .desktop for it to work properly?22:42
fysaor is the mimedb relating MimeType with "Video" already?22:43
fysaand just specifying "Video" is preferred?22:43
fysa(Video, e.g., others also)22:43
fysawill use both for now22:44
timelesslook at hildon/mp_ui.desktop22:45
fysawould we want to replace that?22:45
timelessdefine "replace"22:45
timelessat the very least, your entry should probably list something similar to that22:46
fysaIf we have an mplayer.desktop that offers the same MimeTypes, would it conflict?  or could we set priority?22:46
timelesswhich clearly includes quite a few elements in MimeTypes=22:46
timelessi dunno22:46
fysawe'll see :)22:46
timelessand i don't really feel like reading the source code22:46
timelessgood idea? :)22:46
fysayeah, don't sweat it.22:46
fysathanks for pointing me here, I'll figure it out and send you the .desktop file when I have it working smoothly.22:46
fysait will be very nice for mediaserv.22:46
timelessno xref db? odd22:47
* timeless shrugs22:48
timelessyou can either try reading sources from there22:48
timelessis probably easier22:48
timelesssince it is actually indexed22:48
timelessanyway, i think enough of that stuff is open source, you can probably figure out how it works22:50
timelessnote: priority should *not* be settable in .ini like files22:50
timelessthat's stupid22:50
timelesseveryone would say "i want priority 1"22:50
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timelessthere *should* be a ui for dealing w/ that22:51
timelessif there isn't one, file a bug :)22:51
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fysausually handled by "Open with.. " and "[ ] Always open with"22:52
timelesshow does one deal w/ the case of "[x] already always opening with" :)22:52
timelesssimple minded developers :)22:52
fysayou have to get into the settings (which I don't think we have) to reset it22:52
fysaugh, gmplauncher already makes an mplayer.desktop22:53
fysabut it runs gmplauncher instead.22:53
* timeless rotfl22:53
fysamplayer_ui.desktop :/22:53
timelessfiles are great22:54
timelessespecially conflicts in system directories22:54
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fysaahhh battery just died, auto-hibernate22:56
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alteregoInteresting choice of name.23:16
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androiddo you think that this object is compatible with the N800/N810? :
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alteregoIf it's compatible with newish Nokia handsets it will be.23:21
tontsan810 is atleast using the standard smaller-plug charger23:22
tontsaso should be23:22
alteregoAll the tablets use the standard charger socket ..23:23
androidbut there is only 2 batteries of 1.5v, I think that is not suffisant tu use the N800, no?23:23
alteregoThe 770,N800,N810 use a 3.3v Li-Ion battery.23:24
alteregoIf it works with other Nokia products, it'll work with the tablets.23:24
androidgreat, I think I will buy one23:24
* timeless looks for a russian speaker23:28
* timeless is trying to verify that an email is spam23:28
alteregoMy new desktop is so sweet :D23:29
derfAn online Russian-English translator isn't enough?23:29
timelessnew desktop?23:29
alteregoProbably beats my tablet as the best purchase of this year ..23:30
alteregoActually, it doesn't. The desktop was free ..23:30
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alteregoJust finished installing and customizing it.23:31
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* timeless wonders how well spam translates23:31
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bz_ghello there23:33
bz_gany lurkers around?23:33
* timeless looks aroudn23:33
timelessnothing here but us chickens?23:33
bz_gI'm on the N800/N810 dilemma...23:33
* alterego sets up the maemo SDK in a KVM VE23:33
timelessgenerally lurkers don't talk23:34
bz_g(But just opened my new N800)23:34
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bz_gI tried to upgrade to N810 but got a "invalid product key" when trying to download the stuff23:34
shackanupgrade to n810 ? wow I want to do that too...23:35
alteregoYeah .. Wish I had _that_ product key :D23:35
timelessn810 is hardware23:35
tontsaso you add hardware keyboard by software updater?23:35
timelessyou don't want an n810 flash23:35
timelessthe os is something like it os 200823:36
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tontsaisn't os2008 anyway distributed as free upgrade for n800 soon23:36
timelessand at this time if you can't figure out how to get the beta, you shouldn't23:36
timelessbecause it'll be a disappointment23:36
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bz_gtimeless: sorry I meant upgrade to OS200823:37
bz_gtontsa: it is already23:38
timelessit isn't23:38
bz_gtimeless: ?23:38
timelessthere's a  beta23:38
bz_gtimeless: yes23:38
timelessbut if you can't find it, you shouldn't use it\23:38
bz_gtimeless: why do you mean it will be a disappointment?23:38
bz_gtimeless: (I found it)23:39
timelessdepends on what you use, but there are some relatively painful bugs...23:39
gomia1bz_g: there is this pesky nemathode...23:39
gomia1oh, you don't mean that kind of bugs23:39
bz_gtimeless: do you mean bugs for the N800 0S2008 release of for the 0S2008 in general ?23:39
bz_gI'm still hesitating between N800 and N81023:40
timelesstechnically in general, in practice it's more of a problem for n80023:40
tontsawhat i've used retail n810 now for 2 days only bug so far i've found is the unreliable bluetooth packet data via Nokia E7023:40
timelessthey're fixed in the final os2008 for n80023:40
timelessbut that doesn't exist yet23:40
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bz_ganyone here who tried both N800 and N810 ?23:41
bz_gmy concern: i'd like to install Emacs (maybe 23) on it23:41
bz_gand I wonder if N8[01]0 is suitable for Emacs23:41
bz_g(I can't imagine using Emacs without a physical keyboard...)23:42
bz_gany Emacsers here?23:42
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bz_gdid I say something wr0ng ?23:43
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alteregoemacs really isn't suitable. It's too big and it's not really designed for touch screen user interface.23:45
bz_galterego: thanks.23:46
bz_galterego: but then, is it somewhat suitable for the N810 with its physical keyboard?23:46
tontsai'm happy with my N810, using vim and joe editors23:47
tontsanever been much of an emacs fan23:47
alteregoI like emacs, I use it for most things. It's just very big to stick on a small device like the Internet Tablets.23:47
alteregoSure, having a hardware thumb-board is better than using the onscreen keyboard. But that goes with text entry in all applications. That has nothing to do with emacs itself.23:48
gomia1alterego: and let's not forget the ease of clicking Contorl repeatedly ;-)23:48
gomia1Control, even23:48
bz_galterego: right.23:48
alteregoYeah, there's no ctrl key on the VKB ..23:49
p|someone is using an usb keyboard with n800 ?23:49
bz_gtontsa: but are you always typing with the physical keyboard?23:49
gomia1p|: is that even possible?23:49
alteregop|, several people :)23:49
tontsabz_g, yep23:49
tontsausing the xterm in fullscreen and installed the Google Android fonts23:49
gomia1oh. Do you mind giving me a reference link?23:49
tontsathose fonts just rock23:49
p|i want to buy one23:49
bz_gtontsa: and do you need lots of keys chords (C-M-[key]) ?23:50
p|but unsure about the model23:50
tontsabz_g, using ctrl-a and ctrl-k combos all the time (screen and joe)23:50
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alteregoOh neat. I can use VMWare images with KVM.23:52
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tontsai think you can use vmware images with any virtualization software that uses qemu23:53
alteregoYes, it just didn't occur to me that I'd have that flexibility :)23:55
tontsaok :)23:55
alteregoI can use VMWare Player images without VMWare player :) And run them a lot faster ^_^23:55
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p|does keyboard and/or mouse work when connected to an usb hub ?23:58
alterego(Keyboard definitely, not used a Mouse at all)23:59
p|because i've read this23:59

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