IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-12-10

K`zan	Astro: Exactly.	00:00
astro76	either way I'm sure everyone would like a PDF to download	00:00
alterego	What's wrong with cool looking?	00:00
alterego	I think it's pretty cool.	00:01
endorphinum	astro: you are right, but i thought that it would be crazy to have that "flippage-feeling" on a technical device with a screen. And when i "met" the n800 on the web last week i just fell in love... now i'll only have to see how to get the 200 bucks together :(	00:01
GeneralAntilles	How often would the issues come out?	00:01
alterego	And I think it's usable. Though I think there should be a contents page and bookmarks.	00:01
endorphinum	general: monthly	00:01
GeneralAntilles	Ah, "This Month in maemo" thing actually sounds very awesome.	00:01
GeneralAntilles	s/Ah/A	00:01
alterego	Yeah	00:01
endorphinum	alter: contents is there, bookmark will come. In the lower middle there will be a "menu" button where you can go to direct pages etc.	00:01
alterego	endorphinum, I say go for it. But add a contents page, (which is easily accessible from any other page) and bookmarks! (Use cookies if you have to) :)	00:02
alterego	Ah, cool.	00:02
GeneralAntilles	It could make for a nice digest read for the noobs who does follow maemo.org and ITT daily.	00:02
alterego	Can you embed videos into these pages?	00:03
endorphinum	thats my aim... and also maybe a nice way for not-so-technical-maemo-fans like us to add stuff like "wallpapers" etc	00:03
endorphinum	alter: yes	00:03
alterego	Urm .. Just had a dumb moment ..	00:03
astro76	endorphinum, check out what they are doing with Ubuntu Full Circle magazine monthly, sounds like the same type of thing you want to do for maemo	00:03
alterego	I'm looking at the site on both my tablet and my laptop. I just tried to turn the page by touching my laptop screen O_O	00:03
pupnik	so, looks like one store in UK has N810s	00:03
alterego	pupnik, where?!?!>£%$%&£$	00:04
alterego	:)	00:04
endorphinum	If you check Beta Sway, my sports ezine, at the back there is a column called "music to exercise to". That are netalbels mp3 what means free to play and free to download. I thought i would implement that also inside it.	00:04
pupnik	on ITT forums, N810 in europe thread	00:04
alterego	pupnik, good sign though. It means they've made it to the UK ;)	00:04
endorphinum	alter: lol	00:04
GeneralAntilles	endorphinum, I'd definitely has PDF as an option for distribution, though.	00:05
GeneralAntilles	s/has/have	00:05
pupnik	a NX client would be a great project	00:05
alterego	Yes, I agree with GeneralAntilles on that. PDF download aswell.	00:05
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endorphinum	technically that is no problem. I think i will offer both, but people will love the pageflip - i think :)	00:05
Astro	K`zan, endorphinum: please complete correctly, you're hilighting me ;)	00:06
alterego	endorphinum, I think it's really cool :)	00:06
GeneralAntilles	There's always the misers that'll complain about anything. ;)	00:06
endorphinum	smile	00:06
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GeneralAntilles	Need to round up some columnists.	00:06
astro76	endorphinum, sure, an online browser as an alternative to a PDF download is a fine idea, it would be good to make the animation slightly less taxing on the tablet, looks great on pc though	00:07
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endorphinum	where can i download the ubuntu ezine? my atarashi ezine certainly will be like the same but have more "lifestyle" content	00:07
astro76	endorphinum, http://fullcirclemagazine.org/	00:07
endorphinum	astro: thnx!	00:07
* alterego contemplates making a PDF viewer with this "feel" to it.		00:07
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alterego	If it can work this well in flash. It should be easily implemented in C ..	00:08
endorphinum	Never tried it, to tell you the truth.	00:08
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GeneralAntilles	Hehe, target the magazine at an application, alterego? :D	00:08
alterego	I just think we could do with a bit more eye candy ..	00:09
endorphinum	Is the text inside my "dummy" ok to read by that size? At the moment i do not know if a 12 or 14 font typo is better.	00:09
alterego	And to be honest. The inbuilt PDF reader isn't _that_ great.	00:09
alterego	It's good, but not great.	00:09
K`zan	More content, less "eye candy" please.	00:09
alterego	endorphinum, it's a perfect size yeah.	00:09
GeneralAntilles	12 is fine on my eyes.	00:09
endorphinum	alter: that sounds great as i certainly will need that space for interviews with software developers or "bigger stories"	00:10
alterego	Ignore K`zan he's being a kill joy. Eye candy is good for quite a few reasons. It makes interfaces and applications feel more polished. Which makes the whole product better.	00:11
endorphinum	The ubuntu ezine is superb! But due to my "background" and my aim, i am missing the more entertaining and lifestyle stuff. But i love the design and the way they use to work out with the text sizes. not bad!!!	00:11
alterego	There is nothing wrong with UI refinement and eye candy. Though, there are limits to everything of course.	00:11
endorphinum	As i mentioned, i do not own a n800. Would be great if you could answer me this question: i was thinking about a "new wallpapers" column and as the ezine is 800x480 the presented wallpapers will fit like it would already be installed on the background. My question is: can i make a simple link to a jpg file on the web if someone chooses a wallpaper? I mean, is it something like "save this jpg as background"?	00:13
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GeneralAntilles	They'd have to save it, then selected it as their background.	00:14
* alterego wonders if people would effectively beg for GSM+GPRS+EDGE+HSC functionality in the tablet if it was created by intel.		00:14
alterego	I think not ..	00:14
GeneralAntilles	But it's not particularly difficult, you just can't do it directly from the browser.	00:14
endorphinum	general: thanks a lot!	00:14
GeneralAntilles	Nokia == cellphones	00:14
* GeneralAntilles blabbers a bit and drools.		00:14
endorphinum	alter: with all that stuff you are close to the n850 ;)	00:14
GeneralAntilles	Let's hope not.	00:15
endorphinum	yeah	00:15
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alterego	GeneralAntilles, my point exactly. If these devices were made by some other company. Hell, even if they were made by Sony Ericson I doubt people would be so whiney over "mobile phone" capability.	00:15
acydlord	if the tablet was intel powered i wouldnt buy it	00:15
alterego	What does that even mean? Do they just want GSM?	00:15
acydlord	not a big fan of unfair business practices	00:15
alterego	Or do they want EDGE, GPRS et al aswell ..	00:15
acydlord	edge, ew	00:16
GeneralAntilles	I wouldn't mind if they had a cellular maemo device, just as long Nokia still had another option without a cellular radio that was cheaper, better, stronger, and faster. ;)	00:16
alterego	:)	00:16
acydlord	well the openmoko is very similar to a cellular maemo device	00:17
\|R	with free daft punk samples? :P	00:17
alterego	I'd rather leave my phone at home than my tablet ..	00:17
acydlord	lol, funny as i am listening to daft punk right now	00:17
alterego	openmoko isn't really like a cellular maemo device.	00:17
GeneralAntilles	alterego, depends on where I'm going. :P	00:17
alterego	It's like a open source based cellular device ..	00:17
alterego	Maemo is an open source internet tablet based platform.	00:18
alterego	They're different form factors really ..	00:18
endorphinum	i luv maemo - though i have not worked on it by now :)	00:18
acydlord	they are different form factors, but the sdk is very similar	00:18
alterego	Does openmoko use scratchbox?	00:18
alterego	You're basing two different platforms on the tools they use?	00:19
alterego	O_o	00:19
endorphinum	Ok guys, i will leave now. Wish you a pleasent day/night and thanks again for your support. I will inform you through this channel as soon as the first issue of "atarashi" goes online, what i think will be at the beginning of January 2008.	00:19
alterego	Symbian uses GCC ..	00:19
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alterego	endorphinum, I look forward to reading it.	00:19
endorphinum	alterego: thanks a lot. See ya.	00:20
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GeneralAntilles	Haha, alterego.	00:21
alterego	I'm sorry, if I seem grouchy it's because I've not had much sleep the past couple of days :)	00:22
alterego	My ISP sucks and I'm doing a bittorrent through an SSH tunnel.	00:23
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acydlord	sorry, wasnt paying attention to this chanel	00:25
alterego	Well, you're here now. That's what counts.	00:26
acydlord	i had just remembered hearing early on in the openmoko project that it was inspired by maemo	00:26
alterego	Oh, so they're ripping us off now :P	00:26
alterego	To be honest, I've not looked into openmoko.	00:27
acydlord	and i know most of the software is easy to port between the 2	00:27
alterego	I think openmoko will probably get killed by android ..	00:27
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alterego	Though, I don't know why ..	00:27
alterego	Who'd want to code everything in Java? ..	00:27
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alterego	I guess all of those naive students google rip out of college ^_^	00:28
acydlord	lol	00:29
acydlord	i missed the local barcamp yesterday, i guess google phoenix was the sponsor for the food	00:30
alterego	Google are evil.	00:30
acydlord	indeed	00:30
alterego	In 10 more years I predict there will be a google concentration camp in every major city on the planet.	00:31
alterego	Full of Java and JScript coders.	00:31
acydlord	i dont know how a company can claim their motto is do no evil when they keep logs of everything and index everyone's files for them	00:31
acydlord	lol, no longer paying students fresh out of college, just ganking them	00:32
halley	acydlord, "Ford: Quality is Job One."	00:32
alterego	They'll probably call it "work experience" or "aprenticeship" or something ..	00:32
acydlord	lol, forgot about that one	00:32
acydlord	lol	00:32
alterego	But we'll all know they're concentration camps ..	00:32
acydlord	i have a deal with ASU so i can get free work / interns	00:32
Astro	acydlord: isn't this better than a company doing this while they obviously do evil?	00:33
alterego	You want to work for nothing over summer? Good for you.	00:33
acydlord	i mean i get interns from asu	00:33
acydlord	free workers	00:33
alterego	Oh, hahah.	00:33
alterego	What's your business?	00:34
acydlord	i was doing network security consulting	00:34
acydlord	but i was using the interns for web design and development	00:35
acydlord	cause i still had a few contracts from that that i didn't want to work on anymore	00:35
alterego	Nice,	00:35
alterego	I wish I could get free labour. Would make my life a lot easier.	00:35
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acydlord	just pester the local colleges	00:36
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alterego	Neah, I'm not that needy.	00:38
alterego	I'd feel guilty too. I got paid loads when I was at college.	00:39
pupnik	facebook.com is worth almost as much as ford motors	00:39
pupnik	but am OT	00:39
alterego	I'd like to build up a task force eventually. But I don't make enough money. And I don't have any one that I can trust for the sorts of things I need help doing ^_^	00:39
alterego	(I've got very strict standards) :)	00:39
acydlord	i see	00:40
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alterego	I'm also greedy. Even though I'm pretty well off and get paid, well, "enough". I could probably afford help every now-and-again.	00:41
jubei	does anyone know how to fix networking for the sdk, so it will actually use dns	00:41
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alterego	jubei, you probably need to copy across some config files from your host install. (resolv.conf)	00:41
alterego	maybe nsswitch.conf too ..	00:42
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\|R	http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/Nokia.pdf	01:21
\|R	w-t-f	01:21
\|R	ogg proprietary?	01:21
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lopz	bye	01:28
\|R	Why is it that every big corp has one part smoking crack while the other is on LSD?	01:29
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GeneralAntilles	Haha, dunno, \|R.	01:31
GeneralAntilles	Sad thing, though, isn't it?	01:31
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\|R	GeneralAntilles : indeed...	01:46
\|R	They miss a good free software advocate in the maemo group or something...	01:46
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GeneralAntilles	Why do people insist on using PDFs when it's absolutely unnecessary? :\	01:49
\|R	and flash...	01:50
\|R	And docs, and wmv, and ... uhm :)	01:50
GeneralAntilles	Ha	01:50
GeneralAntilles	You can't even get usable text out of a PDF	01:50
derf	halley: Around?	01:50
GeneralAntilles	The encoding is always screwed up.	01:50
\|R	yeah :/	01:50
\|R	give me you latex source!	01:50
\|R	(oh wait, people use GUI ;)	01:51
\|R	s/you/your	01:51
GeneralAntilles	Adobe freaking designed Acrobat to be contrary.	01:51
derf	You can view LaTeX in a GUI.	01:51
\|R	derf : klyx? :)	01:51
GeneralAntilles	"Oh, you want this in RTF?"	01:51
derf	Or gvim.	01:51
GeneralAntilles	"Let me hard-wrap everything for you."	01:51
\|R	haha ;)	01:51
derf	It's better if you just think of a PDF as a bunch of TIFF files with really good compression.	01:52
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GeneralAntilles	Ha	01:53
\|R	:)	01:53
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halley	derf, aye.	01:54
derf	halley: Try the new gjiten_2.6-1maemo_armel.deb	01:56
halley	Isn't that the same version number?	01:57
derf	You should be able to close and reopen the radical window now.	01:57
* halley fetches...		01:57
derf	Of course, this is not a release.	01:57
halley	So I uninstall then install, right?	01:57
derf	I think if you dpkg -i it'll do that for you.	01:57
derf	I'll do a formal release with a nice chinook repository set up later.	01:58
halley	I tried replacing the icon but it still draws the new 50x50 one at 26x26 (the old size). Weird.	01:58
derf	You also should be able to click on the spin buttons for stroke count, etc., without it incrementing two or three times now.	01:58
halley	Trying now...	01:59
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derf	If you find any other issues, let me know.	01:59
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derf	I think the only other one I know of is that if you search for whole English words, it'll highlight every instance of the string in the entry, even if it's not a whole word.	02:00
halley	Hrm, didn't see any change in the radical window behavior, checking if I did install wrong.	02:01
halley	Oh, I did. wget added a .1	02:01
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derf	(but that's an upstream bug... not that most of these others weren't, also)	02:02
halley	It goes crazy trying to search each time I click ^ or v but it does work.	02:03
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derf	Well, I mean, that's what it's supposed to do.	02:04
halley	Yeah... understood. Maybe a "wait 250ms then start searching" but I know that's adding complexity.	02:05
derf	You're supposed to enter a few radicals, etc., first.	02:05
halley	Agreed.	02:05
derf	Or, you know, get a faster processor.	02:05
halley	Heh.	02:05
derf	(battery life? what battery life?)	02:06
halley	The search by strokes is just OVER the radicals, so it seems logical someone would dial that in first.	02:06
halley	I'm just quibbling, this is awesome.	02:06
halley	If I figure out the icon sizing anomaly, I'll give it to you.	02:06
derf	Yeah, I didn't design the program.	02:06
halley	Good deal.	02:07
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Species8472	hi	02:25
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l7	hey, is anyone finding the samba feature in os 2008 buggy?	02:33
l7	it seems to work part of the time	02:33
l7	then it breaks until i restore the original settings	02:34
l7	then after a while it seems to break again	02:34
halley	Seems to work until you adjust it. Hm.	02:35
GeneralAntilles	Figure out something consistently reproducible and file a bug. :)	02:36
l7	halley: how do you adjust it?	02:38
l7	it seems that there are no configuration settings for it	02:38
l7	GeneralAntilles: only pattern i can see so far that it breaks after a while and restore all settings fixes it	02:39
GeneralAntilles	Then file that.	02:39
GeneralAntilles	Give some timeframe, and describe the "breaking".	02:39
l7	breaking simply means that file manager does not see any samba shares anymore	02:40
l7	and i think it breaks after about a day or two	02:40
halley	http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html	02:40
l7	i'm not sure if clear all data fixes it	02:40
l7	i think i can test that later, if it breaks again	02:41
Species8472	I found a bug too.	02:41
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Species8472	It has a red colour.	02:41
Species8472	And six legs.	02:41
Species8472	Where can I file it GeneralAntilles?	02:42
l7	very funny	02:42
GeneralAntilles	l7, does usage influence it?	02:42
l7	i was just wondering if anyone else had noticed	02:42
Species8472	thanks l7, though 'ha' would be a more appropriate response	02:43
l7	i've been using it only very lightly	02:43
l7	maybe running other applications such as the browser, or ssh affect it	02:44
l7	or it could be my flaky router, but that wouldn't explain why restoring settings would fix it	02:44
GeneralAntilles	The network fileshares implementation is pretty flaky altogether right now.	02:45
GeneralAntilles	UPnP is a lot worse than in OS2007.	02:45
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GeneralAntilles	Open a bug, and it should bring some sort of response.	02:46
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l7	does wizard mounter differ from the file manager in OS2008?	02:46
l7	hrm, okay	02:46
l7	anyhow it needs some more features, like the ability to refresh the share you are looking at w/o closing and reopening file manager	02:47
GeneralAntilles	At the very least, even if they've already fixed it internally, it'll give us a marker to track changes.	02:47
l7	maemo.org is slow again :\	02:47
GeneralAntilles	l7, open some enhancement requests while you're at it. :P	02:48
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GeneralAntilles	bugzilla seems ok.	02:48
l7	heh, i will after i can get this thing to load	02:48
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Species8472	hi unique311	02:48
unique311	who u?	02:48
GeneralAntilles	A troll, ignore him. ;)	02:48
Species8472	I'm Species8472, and you?	02:48
unique311	i am unique311	02:49
unique311	but now i will ignore you, considering i've been told to do so.	02:49
Species8472	GeneralAntilles why are you trying to set everyone against me calling me a troll every time?	02:49
GeneralAntilles	Because I know you. :)	02:49
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Species8472	hi philipl	02:50
Species8472	philipl, be sure to ignore GeneralAntilles, he's a troll	02:50
Species8472	I have to go, bye GeneralAntilles	02:56
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l7	"Zarro Boogs found. "	02:58
l7	cute.	02:58
zerojay	l7: New to bugzilla, I assume?	02:58
l7	zerojay: yeah	02:58
l7	i think i saw an app for a bugzilla client on the IT	02:59
zerojay	Mabugz.	02:59
zerojay	I use it for my Bugzilla at work as well.	03:00
GeneralAntilles	Any word on an OS2008 version?	03:00
zerojay	I thought yerga already brought one out?	03:01
GeneralAntilles	Hadn't noticed.	03:01
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lopz	re	03:08
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Tenkawa	hey all	03:41
* Tenkawa just flashed his 800 to 2008		03:41
halley	Er, congrats?	03:41
Tenkawa	hows it run so far for you all?	03:41
Vulcanis	Amazingly.	03:42
Vulcanis	youtube is bearable.	03:42
Tenkawa	heheheh	03:42
Vulcanis	Stuff still crashes, though.	03:42
Vulcanis	Quetoo is fast.	03:42
Tenkawa	I kinda look forward to messing with pidgin on it	03:42
Vulcanis	Yeah.	03:42
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Tenkawa	did they do anything to help battery life?	03:42
GeneralAntilles	Tenkawa: jablet.net	03:42
Vulcanis	It doesn't make it any worse, but I don't think it made it much better, either	03:42
GeneralAntilles	Yes, Tenkawa.	03:42
Tenkawa	heh	03:43
GeneralAntilles	The CPU throttles now	03:43
Tenkawa	nice	03:43
GeneralAntilles	so it jumps around between 165MHz and 400MHz.	03:43
Tenkawa	thats handy	03:43
Vulcanis	hablet better than pidgin?	03:43
Vulcanis	ja*	03:43
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	03:44
GeneralAntilles	Uses built-in client, which is so much better.	03:44
l7	so jablet is better than pidgin?	03:44
GeneralAntilles	Yes.	03:44
l7	oops, jinx i guess :)	03:44
l7	i wonder if there's any privacy issues there	03:45
GeneralAntilles	No.	03:45
GeneralAntilles	If you're worried	03:45
GeneralAntilles	go interrogate zerojay.	03:45
l7	heh okay	03:45
* \|R still going to use pidgin though... (security work deforms the mind right :P)		03:45
l7	hah	03:46
l7	well i haven't convinced many people to use OTR encryption anyhow	03:46
\|R	that and OTR	03:46
\|R	everyone i know use it now that's it's included basically everywhere	03:46
\|R	s/'s//	03:46
infobot	\|R meant: everyone i know use it now that it's included basically everywhere	03:46
\|R	I guess geeky people don't like added complexity, but i encourage the effort nonetheless :)	03:47
GeneralAntilles	Adium's OTR is basically transparent.	03:48
\|R	yeah	03:48
\|R	we need OTR for SIP now ;)	03:49
Robot101	there should be the pidgin-based backend for the built-in stuff available soon	03:51
Robot101	aaaany day now	03:51
\|R	hehe	03:51
* halley can't believe there's an infobot that parses s/// for the lazy		03:54
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* \|R neither and actually finds this annoying... ;)		03:57
\|R	Robot101 : was this sarcastic or a real statement? weren't you working on telepathy? :)	03:57
Robot101	a real statement. and yes, I was. I still am :)	03:58
* \|R confused ;)		03:58
Robot101	well, actually these days I seem to be trying to patch ejabberd for OLPC	03:58
Robot101	but I don't know erlang so it's kinda hard	03:58
\|R	hehe :)	03:58
l7	it will be nice to avoid installing pidgin	03:59
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l7	has anyone noticed that the tablet runs faster with less apps installed?	04:01
l7	emptying out the built in flash seems to help a bit too	04:01
l7	There was an error communicating with the server.	04:03
l7	Details: None	04:03
l7	weird, this is what it said when i signed with Psi	04:03
zerojay	Say my name, say my name...	04:03
l7	nvm, it seems to be working	04:04
l7	i think Psi gave me that message becaues i was also signed into jabber with ichat	04:04
l7	i guess it doesn't like multiple logins	04:04
zerojay	l7: In terms of privacy, there's only one person with access to the Jabber server and that's me... and I don't give a shit about what you think of your mom's cooking or what Doug thinks of the Cowboys this year or whatever.	04:04
zerojay	l7: Logs are kept, but only three of the four types.	04:05
zerojay	l7: warn for server warnings (Java errors, mostly), err (again, mostly Java errors), info (mainly new users).	04:05
zerojay	l7: Last one is debug, which is absolutely everything, including everyone's messages.	04:06
l7	how long are the logs kept?	04:06
zerojay	l7: However, due to the incredibly huge amount of traffic involved, even if I wanted to read everyone's messages, it's more or less impossible just because of the volume... so debug is never logged unless I specifically am trying to debug a problem in the server (like I did with this Y! issue I've been having).	04:07
zerojay	I would say it grows by about 2MB/sec.	04:07
zerojay	So.. yeah.. lol	04:07
l7	are the account names and passwords on your server as well?	04:08
halley	But the NSA could sneak a copy!	04:08
zerojay	Yes. Account names are shown. Passwords are only stored encrypted.	04:08
zerojay	The GUI allows me to change the password that the gateway will use to authenticate, but of course doesn't show what the original password was.. .and of course, does not allow me to change the password you use to connect to those services.	04:09
zerojay	l7: The server software I run is called Openfire.	04:10
zerojay	l7: If you've got any other questions, feel free to ask.	04:10
l7	eh, i generally have faith in open source projects	04:11
halley	Could someone PLEASE tell me how an app icon is supposed to be located so that it appears at the right scale in all the menus and sidebar? No matter where I put files of whatever size, they show up wrong-sized somewhere.	04:11
l7	but it never hurts to be paranoid :)	04:11
zerojay	l7: Oh... the logs I believe are kept until I tell it to get rid of them, but since the three types of logs I keep show nothing along the lines of your conversations or whatever.. there's no privacy issues there.	04:11
zerojay	l7: Debug, I generally just remove after I'm done needing it, though I sometimes get lazy and don't remove it after turning off debug logging (usually because I'm on a weak wifi at work and I'm already freaking out about some potential problem on the Jabber server...)	04:12
l7	hrm, that is true	04:13
l7	i guess the convenience factor is worth it, it's not like unencrypted IM is really that secure to begin with	04:14
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zerojay	I realize that I'm just another faceless name out there in the internet ether, so my word can't count for much, but I can tell you that I honestly just don't give a shit about what you do or say so long as you aren't trying to take the server down or cause any disruptions.	04:14
zerojay	Most of the time, if I'm on IM, I'm joking around with friends or catching up with them or sending URLs or whatever. The only time I would say that people should need encrypted IM is when they're doing work... but if you are doing work that needs to remain private, well, you've already failed when you routed it out publically anyways.	04:16
halley	Geez, no doubt.	04:16
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zerojay	319 accounts. Cool.	04:17
zerojay	More people are using the tablets as a client than I expected.	04:18
zerojay	Well, if you go by the idea that resource "Telepathy" = tablet, anyways.	04:18
l7	hrm, jabber is a pretty cool protocol if it can do all these things	04:20
l7	i wonder if it could mirror irc channels too	04:20
zerojay	There is an IRC transport to allow you to use IRC through your Jabber account.	04:20
zerojay	Yes, it works on the tablets.	04:21
l7	wow nice	04:21
zerojay	No, I cannot activate it.	04:21
l7	oh	04:21
l7	maybe another jabber client supports it	04:21
zerojay	Unfortuately, because the uplink my provider uses specifically disallows IRC traffic, my provider, and thus I, to my dismay, have to as well.	04:22
zerojay	Jabber clients don't support anything.	04:22
zerojay	The Jabber servers do.	04:22
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zerojay	Believe me, not needing to have Xchat installed anymore would be nice. :)	04:23
l7	hmm, are you running the jabber server from your house?	04:23
zerojay	Though I wonder how slow it would go in a channel like this.	04:23
zerojay	No.	04:23
zerojay	Before I started Jablet, I ran the Openfire server on my home Linux box (same one I'm typing to you on now) to take a look at how Openfire worked, but before I went public, I paid for a hosting service.	04:23
l7	ah cool	04:24
l7	how long are you going to run it?	04:24
l7	is it a non-profit type of experiment?	04:24
zerojay	As long as I possibly can. I personally use it as well.	04:24
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zerojay	It's sort of a partnership between Texrat and I.	04:25
zerojay	I just wanted to host the thing.. he wanted to handle the non-profit kind of stuff or whatever.	04:25
zerojay	I don't know anything about that kind of stuff, to be honest.	04:25
zerojay	We accept donations which go directly to hosting costs.	04:25
zerojay	(If I could get the money out of the account anyways...)	04:26
l7	ah, well it is cool that you are providing a free service to the community	04:26
zerojay	He's got to set it up with a bank account before any sort of transaction could be made with the Paypal account... or some stupidity like that.	04:26
l7	what is the homepage?	04:27
zerojay	Well, I wanted an excuse to run a Jabber server. I've been using Jabber on and off for about 7 years now.	04:27
zerojay	jabber.net, though there's not really much to look at for the moment.	04:27
zerojay	Kind of started work on the Jabber server first.	04:27
zerojay	er.	04:27
zerojay	Wait.	04:27
zerojay	Jablet.net	04:27
zerojay	lol	04:27
l7	heh	04:28
l7	jabber.net looks kinda corporate	04:28
zerojay	Anyways, I was getting kind of annoyed with people saying that you HAD to have PIdgin installed to get onto AIM and MSN and others.. so I decided to prove them wrong and show them the benefits.	04:28
zerojay	And so Jablet was born.	04:28
zerojay	Other ideas are happening.	04:28
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zerojay	Video Center database which works (waiting on Video Center to get a 2008 port though)	04:29
zerojay	Basically, it's one click adding of podcasts/videocasts in formats known to work on the tablets.	04:29
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zerojay	Works the same way as Nokia's own service catalog.	04:29
l7	hrm, that sounds pretty cool	04:29
l7	the IT platform is looking better and better	04:30
zerojay	I'm looking into also hosting a version of Mugshot's service as well, which also uses the same Openfire server I run.	04:30
zerojay	To sort of give tablet users one place they can give others to show... sort of like "my life online.. what I've been doing recently" showing off, say... recent blog posts, songs played through last.fm, pics added to flickr, whatever else works through RSS.	04:31
zerojay	(Mugshot doesn't quite give me all the services I want.)	04:31
zerojay	Here's my Mugshot page: http://mugshot.org/person?who=Q6n0GbNzCVmQZf	04:32
l7	mugshot.org? that looks convenient	04:32
zerojay	So... a bit of an idea of what I want to do for tablet users.	04:32
zerojay	Maybe a bit more integration into the Jabber server perhaps.	04:33
l7	hrm, mugshot sort of reminds me of nokia' MOSH	04:34
l7	s/nokia'/nokia's	04:34
zerojay	Mosh is more about collecting things and posting them for others to see.. Mugshot's kind of more about showing what you've been up to.	04:35
l7	mugs	04:36
l7	whups	04:36
zerojay	So the whole Jablet thing is kind of... along the lines of what I've always wanted to do for myself, but didn't have the motivation to do until others said they were interested as well. :P	04:36
Vulcanis	GeneralAntilles: With jablet, since it is a second jabber account... is there a way to merge both "accounts", so I don't have to choose one account when I try to message them.	04:44
Vulcanis	. = ?	04:44
zerojay	Vulcanis: You already have a Jabber account somewhere else?	04:44
Vulcanis	Yeah, googletalk	04:44
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zerojay	Googletalk's separate.	04:45
Vulcanis	Thought that used jabber, too?	04:45
zerojay	It does.	04:45
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zerojay	You can use it in two ways.	04:45
Vulcanis	Then maybe I don't see what you're trying to say	04:45
zerojay	One: Have one Jabber account, one Googletalk account on your tablet.	04:45
zerojay	Two: Have one Jabber account and use your Googletalk account through the GTalk gateway on the Jablet server.	04:46
Vulcanis	I guess I'll have to do that	04:46
zerojay	Either way, you can add the same person on both if you choose and merge them together in the Contacts app.	04:46
Vulcanis	because otherwise, it gives an annoying prompt every time I try ot message someone	04:46
zerojay	Which prompt is that?	04:47
Vulcanis	Sec.	04:47
Vulcanis	From speed contacts, do not know if it is from anywhere else.	04:47
Vulcanis	speed contacts > name > chat option in the menu > box pops up with my jabber account and my gtalk account, asking me to choose one	04:48
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Vulcanis	Well, the top one shows a gtalk chatbubble and the jabber lightbulb, so dunno.	04:48
zerojay	Yeah, because you have that same person added on both accounts.	04:48
Vulcanis	No, I do not.	04:48
Vulcanis	They are not in my gtalk account	04:48
Vulcanis	they only appear once under "all", too.	04:49
zerojay	Well, it's because it's Jabber.. and since you have a Gtalk and a Jabber account... that would be why.	04:49
zerojay	I think you won't get that prompt if you use the Gtalk gateway on my server.	04:50
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zerojay	Should happen anytime I try to message someone on Gtalk, right?	04:50
zerojay	I'll try it.	04:50
Vulcanis	I just added it, so it doesn't really matter anyway.	04:50
Vulcanis	and I'll kill the gtalk on the n800.	04:50
zerojay	ok	04:50
Vulcanis	So how do I authorize the contacts on the tablet?	04:53
zerojay	They should already be authorized, I believe.	04:54
zerojay	Check your Contacts.	04:54
Vulcanis	it says they are not, once I added them through psi and tried to chat through the n800 client	04:54
zerojay	Are you on both at once?	04:55
Vulcanis	Oh, actually.	04:55
Vulcanis	I forgot to close gtalk on the laptop.	04:55
zerojay	Generally speaking, if someone is on your contact list on Gtalk, they should already be authorized on the tablet as well.	04:56
Vulcanis	Yeah, but this is going through the jablet server.	04:56
Vulcanis	Still says unauthorized	04:56
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zerojay	Shouldn't change anything.	04:57
Vulcanis	Restarting the tablet to see if that helps at all.	04:57
zerojay	If they show up as authorized on Gtalk, they should on the server as well.	04:57
Vulcanis	Yes, but for some reason, they are not.	04:57
zerojay	Vulcanis: What's your Jablet account name? I'll check and see what the server thinks.	04:57
Vulcanis	should be chaos@jablet.org	04:57
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Vulcanis	Its odd, though	04:58
Vulcanis	Psi can use it	04:58
zerojay	All your subscriptions are only one-way.	04:58
Vulcanis	I'm new to this, you're going to need to explain thta.	04:59
zerojay	When you add someone to your buddy list, you're asking them for authorization. If they say yes, you've got an authorization to them. If they never add YOU to their list, the authorization is only one way.	05:00
zerojay	Hm.. I'm starting to wonder if you're having the same issue I had.	05:00
Vulcanis	No, I have messaged them.	05:00
Vulcanis	and they have back. So I do not think it is that.	05:00
zerojay	You don't need to have authorization to message or receive messages.	05:00
zerojay	Authorization is for viewing status.	05:00
Vulcanis	Hm.	05:01
zerojay	Hang on a sec... I think you might have been bit by the same thing I have been.. wait a sec.	05:01
zerojay	Open up a contact that you are having this problem with.	05:01
zerojay	Go to Contacts, and look at their information.	05:01
zerojay	You should see their Gmail/AIM whatever listed there.	05:01
Vulcanis	checking	05:02
Vulcanis	Yeah.	05:02
zerojay	I think what is happening is that the tablet sometimes decides "all Gtalk and Jabber contacts should be contactable"... and other times, it sees the accounts as separate.	05:03
Vulcanis	Well, apparently, this is just showing @gmail.com	05:03
Vulcanis	so it may be using the old contact info	05:03
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zerojay	https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=637 <-- Look at the icon before the person's Jabber accounts listed there.. do you see the same icon or do you see....	05:03
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zerojay	https://bugs.maemo.org/attachment.cgi?id=638 <-- this dual icon?	05:04
Vulcanis	its a dual icon, as I had said before.	05:04
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zerojay	Yeah, that's the problem.	05:04
zerojay	Copy the text in the field, create a new field for the Jabber account, paste it and hit ok... and you should get your authorizations.	05:04
Vulcanis	Ungh. Here goes 15 of them.	05:05
zerojay	At least you haven't had to to 60+ of them on an almost daily basis like I have.	05:05
zerojay	:)	05:05
zerojay	I believe this is a bug on the tablet if Gtalk's been added.. I'm not sure.	05:05
Vulcanis	Heh.	05:05
Vulcanis	gtalk _was_ added	05:05
Vulcanis	I killed it	05:05
zerojay	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2421	05:06
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zerojay	You've got me interested now.. wonder what my contacts show on the server.	05:07
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zerojay	Fuck... it says to also.	05:07
zerojay	Vulcanis: I think I can do it for you.	05:08
zerojay	Vulcanis: Don't do anything. I'll change it to both on the server and we'll see what it does.	05:08
zerojay	(If there's no need to go pasting over and over again...)	05:08
Vulcanis	Yeah.	05:08
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pupnik	Psi 5 Trading company	05:09
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Vulcanis	Bah, apparently, because I had the gtalk account before, anyone with the same name stayed associated with that	05:13
Vulcanis	Because some of the gtalk contacts I did not have there, are at something/gtalk... but the ones that don't work are still @gmail.com	05:13
zerojay	To be on the safe side, I'll set them to have auth both ways on the server.	05:13
zerojay	Your contacts.	05:14
Vulcanis	Thanks.	05:14
zerojay	Seems that all my MSN contacts are just "To".	05:14
lopz	bye	05:17
Vulcanis	yeah, turns out there were multiple contacts under 'all'	05:19
Vulcanis	Thanks, though.	05:19
zerojay	np	05:22
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pupnik	[Slashdot: Your Rights Online] Nokia Claims Ogg Format is "Proprietary" -	06:14
pupnik	http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdotYourRightsOnline/~3/197722474/article.pl	06:14
GeneralAntilles	Is it actually even an official Nokia stance?	06:16
GeneralAntilles	It seems rather blown out of proportion.	06:16
pupnik	http://www.w3.org/2007/08/video/positions/Nokia.pdf	06:16
\|R	well, that's what the pdf says	06:17
pupnik	"Any DRM-incompatible video-related mechanism is a non-starter with the content industry (Hollywood)"	06:18
pupnik	that's fairly indisputable i guess	06:18
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\|R	That good old Symbian mentality? ;)	06:18
GeneralAntilles	There's a smilie in that pdf	06:19
GeneralAntilles	How utterly unprofessional.	06:19
pupnik	Anything beyond that, including a W3C-lead standardization of a ?free? codec, or the	06:19
pupnik	active endorsement of proprietary technology such as Ogg, ?, by W3C, is, in our	06:19
pupnik	opinion, not helpful for the co-existence of the two ecosystems (web and video), and	06:19
pupnik	therefore not our choice.	06:19
\|R	can we fire that lawyer?	06:20
\|R	:P	06:20
GeneralAntilles	"All these alternatives are, in our opinion, preferable over the recommendation of the	06:22
GeneralAntilles	Ogg technologies, based almost exclusively on the current perception of them being	06:22
GeneralAntilles	free."	06:22
GeneralAntilles	Stupid PDFs and their stupid hard-wrapping.	06:22
pupnik	I presonally do not buy any drm content (excepting DVDs which are trivially reproduceable now)	06:22
\|R	i don't buy content, i live content...	06:22
pupnik	But for companies to support a standard i understand why they would insist on DRM.	06:22
\|R	(shows for example, i refuse to pay for anything tangible)	06:23
pupnik	Should ogg have had a mechanism for supporting DRM content?	06:24
\|R	if it's a flag like the original pdf security, that you can ignore, sure ;)	06:24
pupnik	I guess i disagree with nokia. Web standards as defined by W3C should be open (and ogg is)	06:25
pupnik	And if any particular company wants to brew their own soup, they can do-so.	06:25
GeneralAntilles	^	06:27
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pupnik	But nokia has a valid business case, that standards for DRM-enabled content will allow manufacturers to better support the online offerings of content providers	06:33
\|R	drm in cell phones is going to mean TPM pretty fast...	06:34
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d201132	exit	06:47
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Spastic	Hello	07:05
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Spastic	I was wondering if anyone might be kind enough to help me install minimo on OS 2006.	07:06
Spastic	Is anyone here?	07:08
kriebz	sorry, I failed in my attempt to install minimo	07:09
kriebz	it's the middle of the night on a Sunday in the western hemisphere, I'd expect chat to be quiet	07:10
Spastic	Yes, it always is.	07:10
Spastic	Its a tad frustrating it leaves me wondering what the hell a "X11-common" is. :{	07:11
kriebz	have you searched the wiki?	07:13
kriebz	foo, I fail to find a pretty world clock for gnome	07:13
Spastic	A search on Maemo.Org returns nil.	07:13
Spastic	So, what kind of tablet do you have?	07:15
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kriebz	770	07:16
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kriebz	http://www.deal-times.com/General-Talk/Nokia-770-Internet-Tablet/Mini-FireFox-mozilla-based-MINIMO-browser-for-Nokia-770.html	07:18
kriebz	this guy claims to have done it	07:18
kriebz	but I don't like the idea of downloading his packages	07:18
kriebz	sketchy	07:18
kriebz	he should have just linked	07:18
kriebz	also, they may be stale and not work right in the current OS, even if they aren't haxed with	07:18
Spastic	Got it.	07:19
Spastic	Thanks.	07:19
Spastic	I have the 770 too. Finding rs-mmc cards is a pain in the ass.. :S	07:20
kriebz	I got a good deal	07:22
kriebz	I forget where	07:22
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kriebz	$22 seems to get you 1GB	07:24
kriebz	they are also sold as "MMC mobile"	07:24
kriebz	I guess rs-mmc didn't roll off the tongue	07:24
kriebz	the two slots for the N800 is nice	07:24
Spastic	Yes, doesn't have that same ring too it.	07:25
kriebz	since I boot from the MMC, I can't swap it	07:25
Spastic	are you running the default os?	07:25
kriebz	I'm running the latest from Nokia	07:26
kriebz	not hacker edition	07:26
kriebz	but I followed the instructions on the wiki to boot from a larger partition on the MMC card	07:26
kriebz	it's a little faster and even a little more stable, but that might be from bug fixes	07:27
kriebz	the only thing that's been crashing my 770 any more is the cold	07:27
kriebz	hates being cold	07:27
Spastic	Cool, I will probably do that once I get a card.	07:28
Spastic	BTW, you were right not to trust that guys page. I get incompatible package with all the installs.	07:28
kriebz	well, it's old	07:29
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kriebz	so I'm not surprised	07:29
Spastic	Sorry to ask so many questions, but do you know how to get flash working in the browser?	07:29
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pupnik_	Spastic: works here	07:35
pupnik_	if you mean flash9 support, there is a threat on ITT with howto	07:36
pupnik_	i can't confirm that tho	07:36
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Spastic	Sorry, but what is ITT?	07:36
ubuntu_	is it possible for a nokia 770 to operate as a display for a computer?	07:37
ubuntu_	aside from remote desktop	07:37
Spastic	Not that I know of.	07:38
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pupnik_	Internet tablet talk	08:02
pupnik_	forums	08:02
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kulve	zerojay: yeah, I removed it as I "announced" it offically..	08:08
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Ravious	Does anyone know is there some kind of issue with the 2006 repositories?	08:23
Ravious	Im on a fresh reflash of 2006 on a 770, and im getting all kins of errors trying to install anything off the maemo website.	08:24
astro76	Ravious, looks like maemo.org is down again	08:25
astro76	err maybe not	08:25
Ravious	Hmm	08:25
Ravious	I'm getting all kinds of dependency errors	08:26
Ravious	Hmm.. Oh well.. Guess im reflashing back to HE2007	08:30
Ravious	lol	08:30
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oil	hi. I wish to create an debian package. For this I need the ar command, but my openwrt router does not have one. do you know how to go around the problem?	08:56
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oil	eg. do this without 'ar' ar -r your-package-name.deb debian-binary control.tar.gz data.tar.gz	08:58
kulve	sounds like you are doing a debian package with a hard way ;)	08:59
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oil	kulve: might be, but I wish to create the package on the fly based on the information set to a web page	09:00
oil	this used to work on my linux 'server' but the hd crashed and now I'm trying to install it to the router	09:01
oil	actually, what would be more easy way to do this?	09:04
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melmoth	any list admin there ? i have been unsubscibe from maemo-user yesterday and cannot subscribe again (no mail asking me to confirm my request)	09:11
kulve	oil: the real way of building debs is "dpkg-buildpackage", but I assumed you were doing your things in some limited environment..	09:12
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oil	kulve: yes. I guess I need to change the building part to another device.	09:13
oil	thanks anyway :)	09:13
keesj	oil: do it on the nokia itself	09:13
zuh	pupnik_: About the Nokia position paper, IMO it tells you something already of the attitude when they are constantly saying '"free"'... Also if I were a musician that released music under open formats, I'd be quite miffed at Nokia for dissing my stuff as inferior just by that.	09:13
oil	keesj: I'd like to have only one server online. therefore the router would be the best option	09:14
pupnik_	yes	09:14
pupnik_	http://pupnik.de/brainmlt.jpg	09:14
pupnik_	i did that in truespace on a 64MB pc	09:14
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keesj	oil how does that relate to you question? if you are searching for trouble deliberately your on your onw	09:15
kulve	keesj: why would he be on his own? :)	09:15
kulve	oil: can't you get ar to the router?	09:16
kulve	it shouldn't be a big binary..?	09:16
oil	keesj: well, yes an no. would be best place to have this functionality	09:16
keesj	there must be a sh implementation of ar somewhere , it like zip right?	09:16
keesj	is it your own router btw?	09:17
oil	kulve: no, can not find. it's asus wl-700ge running kamikaze 7.09.. I'll keep looking	09:17
oil	keesj: jes. that's what I'm looking for. if it would be possible to 'simulate' ar with a script or so	09:18
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guardian	morning	10:19
ravious	anyone had a chance to play with maemo fuse?	10:21
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Luria	hey	10:26
Luria	anyone know of a chinook vim deb?	10:26
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AD-N770	bon dia / good morning	11:28
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lardman	morning	12:16
czr	hey all	12:16
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alterego	Today, I'm gonna build some crazy modules for my hostified N800	12:32
inz	What makes the modules crazy?	12:33
alterego	Just me,	12:33
alterego	I make things crazy	12:33
czr	inz, wet & wild pointers?	12:34
alterego	Firstly I'm gonna remove that pesky r&d mode ..	12:34
czr	"kernel modules all gone wild"	12:34
alterego	Sounds like a normal day :P	12:34
* czr nods		12:34
czr	I'm trying to solber up mostly. Need to get some stuff for the trip today	12:35
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* czr plans to run away from maemo as far as possible, if not further		12:35
alterego	I managed to plug my digital camera into the N800, worked "almost" perfectly. It worked but I got a bunch of error messages in th process. Then the device was mounted and the file manager popped open. Tried plugging in a dumb mass storage device. Which I presumed the camera was in that mode, and it didn't work :(	12:36
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alterego	‌Being able to use my 5in1 card reader on the N810 (when I get it). Will be super handy.	12:36
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czr	super handy = 6 fingers?	12:42
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czr	like the hand-signs they have on the doors of the restaurant train cars in finland	12:42
alterego	Hah	12:42
czr	it means (in code) "yes we serve alcohol, and if you actually counted the number of fingers in the sign, you need more of it"	12:42
alterego	Hahah	12:43
alterego	So, you leave tomorrow?	12:43
czr	yeah. at around 4 AM	12:44
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alterego	Eesh	12:44
alterego	What's this OMAP2420_SNAPSHOT me wonders.	12:46
czr	-> goes shopping	12:47
alterego	See you later.	12:47
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Khertan	Hi !	12:47
alterego	Hola	12:47
alterego	"CONFIG_MACH_NOKIA_RX44" ?	12:47
alterego	Interesting ..	12:48
Khertan	MACH ... ?	12:48
alterego	Actually, that makes sense. The kernel would be for both the N800 and the N810	12:48
Khertan	i'm surprising if it s a mach kernel :)	12:50
alterego	It's just a tag for "Machine" :P	12:50
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Khertan	ah ... arf	12:56
alterego	Interwesting. They already have USB->Ethernet support for RTL8150 enabled.	12:58
wplayya	usbnet?	13:00
alterego	No, USB to ethernet adapters.	13:00
alterego	Allows you to connect to an Ethernet RJ45 based 10/100/1000 network.	13:00
alterego	I've been toying with buying one for the tablet.	13:00
wplayya	ah ok	13:01
wplayya	nice idrea	13:01
wplayya	but how do zou get 1000MBit on a usb cable_	13:01
alterego	Good question ;)	13:02
alterego	Maybe it's USB3.0 capable ;)	13:02
alterego	USB3.0 is super fast ..	13:02
Khertan	hum ... i hope it s doesn't consum your cpu super fast too	13:03
Khertan	usb2.0 is horrible for that	13:03
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alterego	Can't say I've noticed.	13:03
wplayya	maybe they use an usb hub to use 2 of them ;)	13:03
wplayya	2x480 is near to 1000	13:03
wplayya	the controll info is send over bluetooth	13:04
Khertan	if u use a hub u divide the bus :)	13:04
Khertan	speed	13:04
wplayya	pssst	13:05
alterego	Two controllers.	13:05
wplayya	dont desroz the plans	13:05
wplayya	argh	13:05
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alterego	desroz?	13:06
wplayya	mz keyboard thinks it has an english layout	13:06
alterego	Is that some new kids cartoon or something?	13:06
alterego	Hmm, seems cold today.	13:07
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alterego	Gonna work on encrypted filesystem support on my N800 today,	13:07
wplayya	destrooy	13:07
Khertan	does the n810 has different hardware keyboard layout ?	13:07
wplayya	-o	13:07
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wplayya	my bt keyboard gets really mad with the n800	13:08
Khertan	i still see the same on different store	13:08
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alterego	The images are all qwerty from what I've seen. Though there are different mappings.	13:08
wplayya	maybe thez use the same photo from the nokia hp_	13:08
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alterego	There are different mappings for US/UK/EUR I believe too ..	13:08
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alterego	Moduals builded	13:09
Khertan	snifff ... i hope it s still a qwerty in france	13:10
alterego	Why wouldn't it be?	13:11
alterego	I'm just saying it'll have a EURO instead of USD or GBP symbol :)	13:11
Khertan	ah ok :) i ve understand :)	13:11
keesj	but azerty is no fun	13:11
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Khertan	i ven't understood :)	13:11
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alterego	My tablet doesn't seem so cool without the R&D messages on boot :/	13:15
Fatal	:)'	13:15
Khertan	alterego > is it you ? : [Bug Tracker]: PyGTKEditor : Severity Feature : Would it be possible to add ruby syntax highlighting to PyGTKEditor? Thanks	13:16
Khertan	:)	13:16
alterego	God no.	13:16
alterego	:)	13:16
Khertan	lol	13:16
alterego	I wonder who that was though. It's a good idea.	13:16
Khertan	hum ... i think i should leave my custom syntax highlighter ...	13:17
alterego	I'd actually use it if it had ruby syntax highlighting ;)	13:17
Khertan	to use GtkSourceView	13:17
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Khertan	but ... 770 users will not be happy ...	13:17
alterego	I could actually write one _very_ easily in Ruby that used the standard text view.	13:18
Khertan	alterego > is the ruby syntax is complex to parse ?	13:18
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alterego	There's a neat ruby library that does syntax highlighting for many different languages/filetypes.	13:18
alterego	Not really,	13:18
alterego	It's mainly just highlighting keywords and string literals.	13:18
Khertan	alterego> hum ... where can i find information about that ?	13:19
alterego	Having auto indententation is a little bit trickier. But that should be easy to do if you're familiar with the different code block types.	13:19
alterego	Khertan, it's used by pastie.caboo.se I believe.	13:19
Khertan	i ven't autoindent yet in pygtk ...	13:19
alterego	There's a few out there.	13:19
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alterego	I know people bitch about it. But I could really do with emacs on the device ..	13:20
alterego	Or a decent powerful text editor.	13:20
Khertan	:)	13:20
alterego	Even gedit would do ..	13:20
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Khertan	gedit is good text editor ...	13:20
alterego	I'm suprised no-one has ported it yet.	13:21
alterego	Maybe I'll do that instead ;)	13:21
Khertan	hum ...	13:21
Khertan	yes me too ...	13:21
Khertan	maybe we should do that :)	13:21
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Khertan	pygtkeditor was mainly my first python programm	13:21
Khertan	just to learn python ;)	13:22
alterego	I tell you what. I'll check out the gedit source and see what kind of a state it's in. What dependencies it requires etc.	13:22
alterego	Well it looks like a lot of people like it :) good job	13:23
Khertan	thanks	13:23
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Khertan	as i use it my self onboard ... i ve my own idea about how an onboard editor should be :)	13:23
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Khertan	i ve added recently c/c++ syntax highlight and i was sure than someone ll ask for an other language :)	13:25
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Khertan	and it s show that a least one or more people are interested ...	13:26
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wplayya	Khertan, i want to see A syntac highlightning in your editor	13:26
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Khertan	syntac ... don t know this language :)	13:27
Khertan	A ...	13:27
wplayya	syntax	13:27
Khertan	don't know too	13:27
Khertan	:)	13:27
wplayya	yeah the A python bindings :D	13:28
Khertan	A ... what is it ? asm ?	13:28
wplayya	never heard of it too ;)	13:28
Khertan	lol	13:28
wplayya	befor D there was C, before c there was B, before B there was A	13:29
Khertan	i know B ... C ... D ...	13:29
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wplayya	or what about brainfuck?	13:29
Khertan	i now please .... not that	13:29
Khertan	oh no ... please not that	13:29
Khertan	maybe goto++ ... but not brainfuck	13:30
Khertan	http://gpp.niacland.net/index.html.en	13:30
wplayya	bf++?	13:30
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Khertan	Chaussette Test	13:32
Khertan	ret=Test@Tricoter(«localhost» *(1256))	13:32
Khertan	GOTOPRINT()	13:32
Khertan	ret=Test@Vider(texte)	13:32
Khertan	GOTOPRINT()	13:32
Khertan	GOTOPRINTDUTEXTE() ; &texte	13:32
Khertan	i like the instruction GOTOCHEPA() ...	13:32
melmoth	any maemo-user list admin here ?	13:32
Khertan	in english this could be translate by GOTODONTKNOW()	13:32
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Khertan	GOTOCHEPA() %10 ... (there is 10% of chance of a jump)	13:33
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alterego	Hah	13:34
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wplayya	chepa=corsica?	13:36
wplayya	it remembers me to java2k	13:37
Khertan	chepa ... a mal formed french sentence to say : " ne sais pas " ... " i don't know "	13:37
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Khertan	in argo ... "chais pas ... !"	13:38
Khertan	:)	13:38
wplayya	there is a 96% that the solution is right	13:38
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wplayya	wb playya_	13:38
alterego	Heh	13:38
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wplayya	i thought my granny unplugged the power supply to insert the vacuumer	13:39
Khertan	... lol ...	13:39
Khertan	i ll come back .. eating time :)	13:39
wplayya	hehe	13:41
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jott	anyone had success using the (device program) discount code on shop.nokia.de?	13:44
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alterego	Try on Friday jott	13:47
jott	alterego: thanks. just wondering if it was just me :).	13:49
alterego	Well, Nokia said we should be able to buy on Friday .. So ..	13:49
alterego	Don't expect _anything_ to work until then ;)	13:49
lardman	not long, yay!	13:50
jott	yes.. no problem.. i can wait :)	13:50
alterego	:)	13:50
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alterego	If all goes to their master plan lardman ;) I'm still not convinced the N810 really exists.	13:50
lardman	:)	13:51
wplayya	hopefully i get one too	13:51
wplayya	how could i say my chief that os2008 on n800 isnt the same like n810?	13:52
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* alterego fights with some dependency hell.		13:58
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VRe	Is there some nice wasy way to give input to program depending on what the program outputs?	14:01
felipec	wplayya: it's different hardware...	14:01
alterego	O_o	14:02
alterego	VRe, can you give a better example of what you want?	14:02
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VRe	alterego: program asks password, I give password..	14:03
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alterego	VRe, there's a password dialog in the hildon widget set.	14:03
alterego	Use that.	14:03
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VRe	alterego: No I want to feed the program according (command line) its output	14:04
alterego	What?	14:04
alterego	echo "password" \| ./program ?	14:04
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VRe	that is stateless.. it might ask something else than just password. And that still doesn't work with all the programs	14:05
alterego	You're not giving very good examples.	14:05
alterego	What do you mean "all the programs"?	14:06
VRe	programs says aa, I have to say bb or the program might say cc and then I need to say dd	14:06
alterego	What programs?	14:06
alterego	Use expect	14:06
VRe	in general, I suppose somekind of testing automation prog could do it	14:06
alterego	expect	14:06
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alterego	Though, I have no idea why you're asking here for this information ..	14:07
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rothiel	Hell World :)	14:07
rothiel	Hello World :)	14:07
alterego	I think you were right the first time :P	14:08
VRe	alterego: Hey, not everything on the tablet is gui	14:08
alterego	VRe, sure. but don't you think it would have been more appropriate to ask in #linux or #unix or something?	14:08
alterego	What you're trying to do has nothing to do with the tablet.	14:08
alterego	Not specifically ..	14:08
VRe	close enough	14:08
alterego	Whatever.	14:09
alterego	Use expect, next time ask somewhere else.	14:09
VRe	yes daddy	14:10
alterego	A thank you for answering your question would have been nicer.	14:10
alterego	Your sarcasm isn't exactly productive.	14:10
VRe	yes, thank you for the answer. not for lecture	14:10
* alterego decides to add VRe to his help blacklist.		14:12
alterego	I actually didn't have one before.	14:12
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Khertan	re	14:30
* Jaffa spots in the scrollback that the /. story on Ogg & Nokia has been mentioned already (at 04:20 UTC): http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/12/09/2045200		14:31
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guardian	Jaffa: so nokia is against ogg because there is no drm support ?	14:43
guardian	did i get it right ?	14:43
Jaffa	That's what /. says. The paper itself is slightly more intelligent on my quick skim	14:44
guardian	i just read it quickly	14:44
tsavola	mp3 has drm support?? :)	14:44
guardian	however, understand it fully requires culture on the subject	14:44
guardian	which i barely have	14:45
tsavola	hasn't the generic (non-nokia-specific) corporate story been that ogg is a potential patent minefield?	14:46
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mgedmin	sounds like FUD	14:52
mgedmin	but it might be substantiated	14:53
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VRe	mgedmin: if one asks a lawyer one can't do anything (ogg), and I think with ogg somebody made the mistake and asked	15:00
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baro_	hola yerga, how's your schedule?	15:02
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gopi	iirc, one or more of the MP3 patent owners basically said, "we got lotsa patents. We can't imagine you can do anything that smells like MP3 without licensing some of our patents."	15:06
alterego	Interesting.	15:10
alterego	Like meta tags?	15:10
alterego	Though, really. They can't call dibs on that, considering it's been in various image formats for a lot longer than MP3 has been around ..	15:10
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\|tbb\|	hi all, when canola will be released for chinook ?	15:15
Khertan_VM	alterego: maybe you can help me ... :-)	15:15
Khertan_VM	/scratchbox/compilers/cs2005q3.2-glibc2.5-arm/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/3.4.4/../../../../arm-none-linux-gnueabi/bin/ld: cannot find -lffi	15:16
Khertan_VM	does it mean something for u ?	15:16
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kulve	you are missing libffi	15:18
kulve	(I think..)	15:18
Khertan_VM	u are right ...	15:19
Khertan_VM	thanks	15:19
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Khertan	i don't know very well linux compilation tool	15:23
Khertan	but after a make && make install	15:24
Khertan	many seems to include script to create debian package after	15:24
Khertan	what is the traditionnal way to do that ...	15:24
Khertan	?	15:24
Khertan_VM	make distcheck	15:26
Khertan_VM	then make dist M	15:26
Khertan_VM	?	15:26
kulve	make distcheck produces a tar ball. Untar it to a different location and then dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot	15:27
kulve	that's a good way of working. But many packages aren't good enough to have working distcheck, so you need to do things a bit differently	15:28
Khertan_VM	and is it in the Makefile script ?	15:28
Khertan_VM	because i get an error on distcheck :)	15:28
Khertan_VM	as you said : many packages aren't good enough to have working distcheck	15:29
kulve	dpkg-buildpackage runs the make etc, (if the package is debianized)	15:29
Khertan_VM	:)	15:29
kulve	if you take the sources from VCS (like cvs or svn), export the sources from there and just run "dpkg-buildpackge -rfakeroot"	15:29
kulve	or if you just got a tarball somewhere, run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot"	15:30
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Khertan_VM	thx	15:30
kulve	but the dpkg-buildpackage works only for debianized packages, i.e. packages with debian directory in the main dir	15:30
Khertan_VM	it s an debiannized package	15:30
Khertan_VM	but i need to edit some script to work :)	15:31
Khertan_VM	checking for a Python interpreter with version >= 2.5... configure: error: no suitable Python interpreter found	15:31
Khertan_VM	still the same thing with scratchbox ... i need to edit to modify te ./configure by ./configure PYTHON=/usr/bin.python2.5	15:32
Khertan_VM	hum ... do u know which script invoke the configure script from a dpkg-buildpackage ?	15:37
Khertan_VM	i ve modified debian/rules to add python=/usr/bin/python2.5	15:37
Khertan_VM	but i still get the error ... and when i call configure with the python path i get no configure error	15:38
Khertan_VM	?	15:38
kulve	debian/rules is the one to hack, but I don't know how, since I don't know what package your are editing (and I don't want to know either ;)	15:38
Khertan_VM	(hihi	15:38
Khertan_VM	)	15:38
Khertan_VM	thank for ur help ...	15:39
Khertan_VM	i ll try to find :)	15:39
Spakman_	hello. How can I detect a press of the back button? Does it map to one of the function keys?	15:39
Khertan_VM	yes	15:39
Khertan_VM	it s a function key	15:39
Khertan_VM	don t remember which	15:40
Spakman_	thanks Khertan_VM	15:40
Spakman_	anyone else remember?	15:40
Khertan_VM	kulve: thanks a lot ...	15:42
Khertan_VM	package build :)	15:42
Khertan_VM	i need to test it now :)	15:42
kulve	np :)	15:42
kulve	"maemo.org will have a short, 15 mins maintenance break starting in a	15:43
kulve	few minutes. The server will get some more RAM."	15:43
Khertan_VM	thx for the info <<<	15:43
Khertan	need to get source from svn	15:43
Khertan	:)	15:44
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alterego	Flaming doctools.	15:47
alterego	15 minutes just to add a bit of RAM ..	15:47
alterego	Do the techs have arthritis?	15:48
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alterego	I've got a neat idea. I'm thinking of adding support for gnome desktop applets.	15:53
alterego	Would be nice to port the weather applet. And some others,.	15:54
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Khertan	alterego > i'm porting it in python :)	15:55
Khertan	as gnome applet are in python :)	15:55
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alterego	Oh, does python have hildon desktop plugin support yet?	15:56
alterego	Was it not supposed to be completed last week?	15:56
alterego	Hah, my screen protector is so scratched it's just matte ^_^	15:56
GeneralAntilles	Factory?	15:57
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alterego	Factory?	15:58
gw280	has the default root password changed on OS2008?	15:58
alterego	Looks like I'm finally making progress with my gedit port.	15:58
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alterego	gw280, probably, enable r&d change it, then disable r&d	15:58
gw280	hrm.	15:59
gw280	how does one enable R&D mode?	15:59
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suihkulokki	root pw is still the same, just the root account is locked if root password is still rootme and rd mode is not enabled	16:00
GeneralAntilles	Protector, alterego.	16:00
Khertan	alterego > i ve compiled it	16:00
Khertan	packaged it	16:00
Khertan	and i m testing it :)	16:00
alterego	Yeah it is.	16:00
alterego	Khertan, damn you.	16:00
Khertan	and thanks to kulve for his help :)	16:00
alterego	I guess I might as well just stop now then.	16:01
alterego	That was a wasted 30 minutes.	16:01
* alterego thinks of something else to port.		16:01
Khertan	stop what ?	16:01
alterego	My gedit port ..	16:01
Khertan	i m not talking about gedit ...	16:02
alterego	Oh, okay.	16:02
Khertan	i m talking about python hildon desktop :)	16:02
alterego	What were you talking about? :P	16:02
alterego	Oh right.	16:02
alterego	Good	16:02
Khertan	arf ... i ve see your line about gedit :)	16:02
Khertan	i ve read the previous one ;)	16:02
felipec	gw280: google probably knows :)	16:02
gw280	felipec: yeah, just seen :P	16:03
alterego	I'll continue my port of gedit then :P	16:03
Khertan	arg my binding package doen't include an python home appplet example ... arg	16:03
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alterego	It'll make me happy. Having a decent text editor with syntax highlighting.	16:03
Khertan	alterego> yes ... continue :)	16:03
alterego	Not to mention the plugin architecture is pretty cool *(python support) :P	16:03
Khertan	alterego > are you saying than PyGTKEditor isn't a decent text editor ???	16:04
Khertan	;-)	16:04
alterego	Heh	16:04
alterego	It's young.	16:04
alterego	And I'd rather not install Python :P	16:04
Khertan	yeah i know you doen't like python	16:04
alterego	I don't dislike python.	16:04
Tak	why not go whole hog and install monodevelop?	16:04
alterego	eclipse :P	16:05
Khertan	Tak > lol	16:05
\|tbb\|	hi all, when canola will be released for chinook ?	16:06
Khertan	\|tbb\| > when it ll be done	16:07
alterego	Heh	16:07
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Tak	haha, finnish spellchecker	16:09
Tak	just add extra random Ks, Ts, and Us :-P	16:09
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Tak	pupnik_: you can mess with the permissions between dh_fixperms and dh_md5sums in the binary/arch (etc) targets in debian/rules	16:15
Tak	wow, IBM has a lot of developer articles about the n800: http://tinyurl.com/2b3qr8	16:18
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alterego	Yeah, I've seen them.	16:18
alterego	Not bad :)	16:18
alterego	Hmm .. The latest version of gedit _needs_ the latest gtk releases etc ..	16:20
alterego	That's annoying.	16:21
Tak	backport?	16:22
alterego	Looks like that's the only option yeah.	16:22
alterego	I'm gonna find the latest tree that will compile properly.	16:22
alterego	Then check the differences between releases ..	16:23
Tak	yay g++! "error: no match for 'operator' in '#'obj_type_ref' not supported by dump_expr#<expression error>"	16:25
alterego	Heh	16:25
alterego	That looks pretty.	16:25
Tak	I would just fudge the autofoo and look at the compile errors	16:25
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alterego	Good plan.	16:26
alterego	I don't really know auto foo.	16:26
alterego	But it'll give me a chance to look into it ;)	16:26
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alterego	Handy, there's an environment variable I can use to over ride all the pkg-config errors.	16:28
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Khertan	arg ... binding don't seems to work!	16:37
Khertan	grrr	16:37
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alterego	Khertan, bindings?	16:39
Khertan	yeah my hildondesktop python binding ... :)	16:39
alterego	Use the ruby one.	16:39
alterego	It works.	16:39
Khertan	maybe it s just my applet which doesn't work	16:39
alterego	Maybe	16:39
Khertan	alterego > no ! i ll do it in python !	16:39
Khertan	:)	16:40
alterego	You should write a test case.	16:40
alterego	Python doesn't work, just give up and port it to Ruby :P	16:40
Khertan	(it s what i m writting)	16:40
Khertan	alterego > does we can execute python code in ruby ?	16:40
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Khertan	;)	16:40
Tak	heresy!	16:40
Khertan	:)	16:40
alterego	Yeah, that'd just be pointless.	16:41
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alterego	It'd make Ruby buggy like Python	16:41
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Khertan	python isn't buggy ... the problem is between the screen and the chair ...	16:41
alterego	Yeah, you wouldn't have that problem if you use Ruby	16:41
Tak	oh, so the problem is with the programmer	16:41
alterego	Ruby has a better screen-chair interface.	16:41
ttmrichter	Hang on, did I just see that right? Is there a Ruby port to the N800 complete with Hildon support?	16:42
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Tak	yes.	16:42
alterego	ttmrichter, yes. I've been working on it for months :P	16:42
ttmrichter	WHERE?!?! :D	16:42
Tak	ttmrichter: it is teh awesome.	16:42
alterego	http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ruby-maemo	16:42
* ttmrichter is going to start a killing spree if he doesn't get an URL soon....		16:43
Tak	there's also rubygame support	16:43
ttmrichter	Damned lag!	16:43
alterego	Heh	16:43
alterego	Yeah, thanks to Tak for that :)	16:43
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ttmrichter	You have NO idea how happy you just made me!	16:43
Khertan	alterego > i think you have already make home applet in ruby ...	16:43
alterego	ttmrichter, merry christmas ;)	16:43
alterego	Khertan, yeah. I've got a home applet.	16:43
Khertan	where do you leave your ruby script ?	16:44
alterego	Khertan, it's in the home directory.	16:44
Tak	speaking of which, would anybody like to test the rgvkb package?	16:44
ttmrichter	Between having Ruby on the N800 and knowing that Erlang is portable to it (it has been done, but not packaged), I'm really downright ecstatic!	16:44
Khertan	i ve make a .desktop ...	16:44
Khertan	in the home directory ???	16:44
alterego	Khertan, yes. The desktop file has to be in /usr/share/applications	16:44
alterego	Or something.	16:44
Khertan	it s not the home :)	16:44
alterego	No, the script is in my home directory.	16:45
Khertan	yes i know where to place the .desktop	16:45
alterego	And the .desktop file is in /usr/share/applications/hildondesktop blah	16:45
alterego	Okay	16:45
Khertan	but when u don't give full path to the ruby script	16:45
Khertan	where does it the default path N	16:45
Khertan	?	16:45
alterego	I'd have to check, I can't remember. /usr/bin probably.	16:45
Khertan	:)	16:46
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dpb_	alterego: you did that ruby port?	16:46
alterego	dpb_, indeed.	16:46
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dpb_	there's a typo on the webpage :)	16:46
alterego	dpb_, send a patch :P	16:46
alterego	:D	16:46
dpb_	powerfull should be powerful	16:46
alterego	Where's the typo?	16:46
ttmrichter	alterego, I am going to undergo a sex change operation complete with genetic therapy so I can bear your children.	16:46
Spakman_	hello. How can I detect a press of the back button? Does it map to one of the function keys?	16:46
alterego	Yeah .. Typo ;)	16:46
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alterego	ttmrichter, that's not required. Just buy me a beer if we ever meet ;)	16:47
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mgedmin	if you're talking about the circular-arrow-hardware-button, then it's Esc	16:47
ttmrichter	OK, deal.	16:47
ttmrichter	Coming to China anytime soon?	16:47
alterego	Hah, probably not.	16:47
ttmrichter	Canada?	16:48
alterego	Canada, probably :)	16:48
Tak	Chinada?	16:48
alterego	Chinada? Is that a new bread of dog?	16:48
ttmrichter	OK, I have a buddy in Canada who'll take you out for a beer or three...hundred.	16:48
Spakman_	mgedmin: thanks a lot!	16:48
ttmrichter	He'll be just as ecstatic.	16:48
alterego	Cool,	16:48
alterego	I'd like to start a RUG for maemo ;)	16:48
ttmrichter	Anyway, bedtime. Chat at you all later, and alterego thanks again.	16:48
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alterego	No problem	16:49
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Tak	I thought Chinada was going to be the next maemo release	16:49
alterego	"You gotta get up, you gotta get up, you gotta get down." Jesus, what a confusing song.	16:49
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alterego	:)	16:50
alterego	Maybe I should create some kind of ruby-maemo forum.	16:50
alterego	Or actively start using my blog ^_^	16:50
Tak	maybe a subforum in ITT?	16:51
alterego	No, that'd be overkill.	16:52
alterego	What I'd like is, an area for reporting bugs.	16:52
Tak	ah - a garage project, then ;-)	16:52
alterego	And every now and then I'd like to ask people what they think about the bindings. Whether they think the API could be improved. That sort of thing.	16:52
alterego	And start a debate. I think a blog would be pretty good for that kind of thing.	16:53
alterego	I might just write my own little web app to do that.	16:53
Khertan	lol	16:54
Tak	in django? ;-)	16:54
alterego	I'm not really being very good with this blog stuff.	16:54
alterego	Maybe when I get the N810 I'll be more likely to write blog posts. But I've not wrote a single one ..	16:54
alterego	Khertan, something that the ruby hildon desktop plugin loader does that the python one doesn't. I added error reporting. If it fails to load a plugin it tells you why ;)	16:56
Khertan	arf ...	16:56
* alterego stretches		16:56
Khertan	i was looking in the code to see where error was reported	16:57
alterego	It's not.	16:57
Spakman_	alterego: can we write desktop plugins with the ruby bindings?	16:57
Khertan	but ... i ve found anything yet	16:57
Khertan	and now i understand why	16:57
alterego	Spakman_, yes! :) That's what we're talking about ;)	16:57
Spakman_	is that with version 0.4?	16:57
Khertan	and i hope we ll can soon in python :)	16:57
alterego	I've yet to officially announce 0.4.0 but I should probably do that.	16:57
alterego	Spakman_, yeah. It hasn't got plugin error reporting yet. If you wait an hour I'll have 0.4.1 packaged and uploaded.	16:58
Spakman_	ah, then I will :)	16:58
alterego	Makes things a lot easier.	16:58
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alterego	There's also a fix for libconic.	16:58
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Khertan_VM	g_propagate_error	17:00
Khertan_VM	is it a gtk api ?	17:01
Spakman_	alterego: just saw the desktop plugin example - nice one!	17:01
Tak	looks like glib	17:01
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alterego	Khertan, that's glib	17:09
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alterego	That'll show up in SDK. Not on target	17:09
Tak	Stay on target.	17:09
alterego	:)	17:10
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rothiel	Hello World :)	17:11
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Khertan	tak ... yes ...	17:14
Khertan	sniffff ... this doesn't work ... snifff	17:15
alterego	My loader code is probably the neatest code I've done in C for ruby-maemo.	17:15
alterego	Only _one_ swear word!	17:15
Tak	Most impressive.	17:15
Khertan_VM	i ll try on the sdk	17:15
alterego	Khertan, hint, if it's a python exception being raised by your code. It wont show. The propagate errors were only for loading the file and some other "init" like code. At least that's what I believe.	17:16
alterego	I don't think the loader handles python exceptions at all.	17:16
alterego	It'll either crash the desktop or it'll do nothing.	17:16
Khertan_VM	i don t even know if the code is loaded ...	17:17
alterego	:/	17:17
Khertan_VM	it s do nothing and the applet is unselected in the selection dialog	17:18
alterego	Best to do it all in the SDK	17:18
alterego	Unfortunately :/	17:18
alterego	Yeah, that sounds like it might be with your cod.	17:18
alterego	~code	17:18
infobot	well, code is relatively stable right now, and I think we're going to see lots of changes	17:18
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Khertan_VM	alterego: i get no error when i launch the python script directly with python	17:18
Khertan_VM	and it s no mine, but the example from the binding	17:19
alterego	Ah	17:19
alterego	Hmm, that's not good is it.	17:19
alterego	Try it in the SDK.	17:19
alterego	Look for loader errors.	17:19
alterego	When you start the desktop with af-sb-init.sh there may be an error when it scans the loader directory.	17:20
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alterego	You can force the appearance of this error by touch'ing the loader.so file.	17:20
alterego	Well, that forces the loading of the loader.	17:20
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Andy80	hi all	17:21
Khertan_VM	where is the /usr in the scratchbox tree ?	17:21
Khertan_VM	found	17:21
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jumpula	target's /usr?	17:26
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jumpula	or host-side /usr?	17:26
Khertan_VM	jumpula: i ve found ... the target user	17:27
Khertan_VM	in target folder :-)	17:27
jumpula	yeah, and symlink in / :)	17:27
Khertan_VM	/usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch'	17:28
Khertan_VM	qemu: Unsupported syscall: 264	17:28
Khertan_VM	qemu: Unsupported syscall: 316	17:28
Khertan_VM	this stink	17:28
Khertan_VM	ImportError: No module named homememory.py	17:28
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zoran	put it in the path then	17:30
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Khertan_VM	zoran: i ve put the path	17:30
alterego	Khertan, use native. Don't code python in the armel SDK environment ;)	17:30
Khertan_VM	i ll try	17:31
zoran	alterego hates python, I think	17:31
alterego	Khertan, when I say native. I mean the i386 target./	17:31
Khertan_VM	zoran: everyone know this :)	17:32
alterego	zoran, I don't hate python :P I pity those that use it ;)	17:32
Khertan_VM	alterego: i ve understood	17:32
zoran	alterego ruby on rails 2.0 is out	17:32
alterego	Cool.	17:32
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alterego	I'll have to check out 2.0 ..	17:32
zoran	could be a big step further	17:32
alterego	Yeah, I've not used edge at all. I've been sticking to 1.2	17:33
zoran	almost as python 2.5 ;)	17:33
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alterego	Rails is just a web framework :P It's not Ruby.	17:34
Khertan_VM	arg ... loader not compiled for x86	17:34
Khertan_VM	need to do it	17:34
* alterego can't wait for ruby 2.0 ..		17:34
zoran	mv ruby-1.2 ruby-2.0	17:35
alterego	mv ruby 1.9 ruby-2.0 ;)	17:35
alterego	mv ruby-{1.9,2.0} ;)	17:35
zoran	cat ruby* \| /dev/null - :)	17:36
Khertan_VM	alterego can t build for x86 target ... python2.5 dependancy :(	17:36
Khertan_VM	and it s not available	17:36
zoran	what dep it wants?	17:36
Khertan_VM	python2.5 python2.5-dev python2.5-gtk2-dev	17:37
zoran	no debs?	17:37
Khertan_VM	arg ... my sourcelist	17:37
Khertan_VM	i ve change target :)	17:37
zoran	extras?	17:37
zoran	or debian server?	17:37
Khertan_VM	extras was missing	17:39
zoran	on slashdot I read that nokia thinks ogg is proprietary	17:39
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Khertan_VM	it is ... there is patent on it, isn t it ?	17:40
zoran	hm...	17:40
Tak	heh, on slashdot I read that linux is a tool used by godless communists to subvert capitalism and Jesus	17:41
Khertan_VM	lol	17:41
wumpus	oh no, they have found out our plans :P	17:41
zoran	I've heard that senate should prohibite linux in states	17:41
wumpus	I was just about to subvert jesus	17:41
Khertan_VM	it s already the case in france	17:41
zoran	subversion or prohibition?	17:42
Khertan_VM	prohibition	17:42
zoran	really?	17:42
wumpus	huh, do you have a source on that?	17:42
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Khertan_VM	not really	17:43
Tak	I don't believe that - a ton of Free Software comes out of france	17:43
Khertan_VM	but there is a law	17:43
wumpus	I don't see how you can prohibit linux, you can prohibit it inside a company or inside the government itself of course	17:43
wumpus	but that's really be paranoid the wrong way around	17:43
Khertan_VM	a recent law that focus on mp3 piracy ... b	17:43
zoran	in states it should forbid anything free and that does not has a price on it	17:43
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Tak	speaking of which, I see that the US govt got pwnd the other day via an /email/ exploit	17:44
wumpus	well, let's put a $0.01 price tag on it then	17:44
X-Fade_	I thought is was related to forbidding to release software without a company being accountable for it..	17:44
wumpus	problem fixed :P	17:44
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zoran	wumpus, why should we?	17:44
wumpus	so we can get rich from french people	17:44
zoran	ah, coooooooooooool!	17:45
wumpus	they have to buy it while others can download it for free	17:45
wumpus	wouldn't that be cool :D	17:45
zoran	yes!	17:45
Khertan_VM	X-Fade_: they want that each program get a certificate to know their authors	17:45
Khertan_VM	but this certificate could only be obtains by company	17:45
zoran	Khertan_VM, it is ok	17:45
wumpus	some signed version management would do for open source	17:46
zoran	or in the headers	17:46
zoran	with gpl sticked on it	17:46
Tak	assign copyright to the FSF	17:46
Khertan_VM	it hasn t be approved yet ... but it should be in a near future	17:46
wumpus	in open source projects there really is accountability for who write which line	17:46
wumpus	wrote*	17:46
Khertan_VM	but it wont be free :-	17:46
wumpus	yes, but I mean it's bullshit from a law enforcement position	17:47
zoran	what do you folks think about patenting one-two-3 click processes?	17:47
Khertan_VM	i can t explain exactly the details as i ven t a good enought english	17:47
zoran	or "get this by clicking and using brain"	17:47
zoran	what if I don't use mouse?	17:48
wumpus	but if we'd have to be accountable for all the code we write we must include clauses such as 'don't use this in vehicles and nuclear reactors' :P	17:48
zoran	<ctrl> <tab> and <enter>	17:48
zoran	R.Stallman, help!	17:49
Khertan_VM	dpkg: error processing libgtk2.0-0 (--configure): subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127	17:49
Khertan_VM	pfff it s a real pain to use this sdk ...	17:49
wumpus	anyway, until a country really manages to forbid open source this is all theory	17:49
mgedmin	mhm... what was the error message before that?	17:49
wumpus	here in the netherlands the government itself uses open source in some cities	17:50
Khertan_VM	/scratchbox/tools/bin/sh: line 1: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: No such file or directory	17:50
zoran	wumpus, gvmnt with brain!	17:50
mgedmin	no, that dpkg-preconfigure message is harmless	17:51
mgedmin	and it's not invoked from the post-installation script	17:51
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mgedmin	if there's no other output, it means the postinst script exited with nonzero but didn't print anything	17:51
Tak	free software is widely used in some cities in the us as well	17:51
Tak	a notable example being my neighbor, largo, fl	17:52
zoran	and some ms is free software, if one does not pay for it :)	17:52
Tak	no, I mean Free Software	17:52
Tak	Free as in Stallman ;-)	17:52
zoran	;)	17:52
alterego	Hah	17:52
* alterego chuckles.		17:52
alterego	Haven't they released pymaemo for i386?	17:52
alterego	Seriously, though. If I hated python that much. I wouldn't be trying to be helpful to Khertan :)	17:52
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Khertan_VM	their is a release for pymameo ... but i ve problem with a dependancy of pymameo ...	17:53
Khertan_VM	the package seems to be corrupted	17:53
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zoran	Khertan_VM, the real problem is making perl for vms	17:55
zoran	all about maemo is nothing compared to it	17:55
Khertan_VM	perl ?	17:55
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zoran	little gnome with "perl" shirt	17:55
zoran	someone has python 2.5 on os2006?	17:58
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* zoran gone to feed dragons		18:00
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alterego	Hmm, I should really make it display the line number ^_^	18:15
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alterego	I think I'll make it dump the entire stack trace. Ala, Rails.	18:20
alterego	But in a pretty Gtk::Dialog :D	18:20
GeneralAntilles	Vagalume needs a desktop applet.	18:21
GeneralAntilles	Then somebody needs to combine Rhapsody, Vagalume, fm and internet radio into 1 uber-applet.	18:21
Tak	does vagalume currently play local music? or just last.fm streams?	18:21
GeneralAntilles	last.fm	18:22
GeneralAntilles	Media player is for local. :)	18:22
Tak	yeah, kind of sucks that they're segregated	18:22
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GeneralAntilles	Nokia should provide a decent plugin interface for stuff like that for Media player.	18:22
Tak	also, is there a way to build a playlist from multiple artists/genres/whatever in the media player?	18:22
Tak	yes.	18:22
alterego	Yeah, a plugin interface for the media player would be awesome.	18:24
* alterego eats some cake.		18:24
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lopz	hola	18:24
_berto_	oh, I read vagalume	18:27
_berto_	only last.fm streams, sorry	18:27
_berto_	8-)	18:27
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GeneralAntilles	Maybe a plugin for Canola2.	18:27
Tak	_berto_: is there any plan to change that?	18:28
_berto_	GeneralAntilles: I'm working on a statusbar icon	18:28
GeneralAntilles	For Vagalume?	18:28
_berto_	GeneralAntilles: yes	18:28
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GeneralAntilles	My statusbar is full.	18:28
_berto_	GeneralAntilles: optional of course ;-)	18:28
GeneralAntilles	I'd rather have a desktop applet.	18:28
_berto_	Tak: well, it's intended to be a last.fm player :)	18:29
_berto_	GeneralAntilles: I'd like to add that too	18:29
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_berto_	Tak: there are several media players out there, I don't think it makes sense to convert vagalume into another media player	18:33
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GeneralAntilles	Ha, I agree 100%, _berto_.	18:34
* Tak shrugs		18:34
_berto_	for me it's more interesting to add all features specific to last.fm	18:34
_berto_	tags, recommendations, events, ... those things	18:34
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alterego	And for those that don't use last.fm ..	18:34
alterego	:)	18:34
_berto_	http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/multimedia/	18:35
_berto_	:)	18:35
alterego	None of that stuff interests me.	18:35
_berto_	I see some 5 media players there	18:35
alterego	The builtin media player is fine for me.	18:35
Tak	is there a way to build a playlist from multiple artists/genres/whatever in the media player?	18:35
derf	kulve: Would you like a vector version of the Ogg fish logo so that your blown-up image doesn't look so god-awful?	18:36
kulve	derf: :)	18:36
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dragorn	and if not, try feeding it to http://vectormagic.stanford.edu/	18:36
kulve	derf: I just had to put something there, and couldn't find anything proper..	18:36
kulve	derf: so, why not :)	18:37
derf	http://people.xiph.org/~tterribe/xifish.pdf	18:37
derf	Generated from http://svn.xiph.org/trunk/theora/doc/spec/xifish.fig	18:38
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alterego	PDF ?	18:39
felipec	SVG would be better wouldn't it?	18:40
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alterego	:)]	18:41
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timelE61i	hi bergie	18:43
bergie	hi	18:43
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kulve	is somewhere a wiki page or something about the images in the maemo.org/download?	18:47
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kulve	I tried uploading svg for the download image, but it just says "You can only upload images here. This file will not be saved."	18:59
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alterego	Heh	19:00
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Khertan	try with a png :)	19:01
kulve	browsers seems to show svgs quite nicely nowadays, a bit slow though..	19:01
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fysa	would be nice to have more media players with mplayer (instead of built-in) support.	19:04
fysa	transcoding is for suckers, and almost all standard-def content I've played works beautifully through mplayer.	19:04
Khertan	kulve > browsers but many web application don't want anything than gif,png,jpeg	19:06
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kulve	sure	19:07
kulve	but svg might become a nice addition to those	19:07
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Khertan	sure	19:08
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kulve	derf: I tried to change the logo, but I don't see it updating on the page..	19:15
kulve	hmm.. And actually I've uploaded an empty png..	19:16
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Khertan	is there a way to get g_warning message on the device ?	19:19
Khertan	or a simple instruction in one line to write to a log in c :)	19:20
Tak	wouldn't you have to build a glib with those messages turned on?	19:20
Khertan	hum ... i think it ll be simple to build the loader with a write to a file in /var/log :)	19:21
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sp3000	Khertan, install syslogd	19:22
sp3000	-> done	19:22
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Khertan	syslogd ?	19:23
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Khertan	it s already available ?	19:23
Khertan	in a repos ?	19:23
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kulve	I installed it from the repository.maemo.org (not extras)	19:24
Khertan	nothing was found for "syslogd" in OS 2008	19:25
sp3000	sysklodg even	19:25
sp3000	or sysklogd if you prefer the correct spelling	19:25
Khertan	ok :)	19:25
Khertan	i ll try :)	19:26
* sp3000 slaps gronmayer.com/it/ for using method=post for a search		19:26
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GeneralAntilles	Somebody should file a bug.	19:26
kulve	Khertan: you should remove them from the startup to scripts as they log a lot (update-rc.d -f remove sysklogd, and same for klogd, iirc)	19:26
gw280	when is MAEMO_CHANGES defined?	19:27
Sho_	hm - "Nokia wants W3C to remove Ogg from upcoming HTML5 standard"	19:28
wumpus	wtf	19:29
wumpus	what's wrong with ogg?	19:29
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\|R	wumpus : nothing, they're lost	19:29
wumpus	huh.. but what do they have against it?	19:30
dpb_	wumpus: it's "proprietary"	19:30
\|R	they call it proprietary and blame it for not having DRM measures	19:30
wumpus	well,, isn't mp3 too?	19:30
wumpus	it's owned by this german institute	19:30
\|R	well, the fact is, ogg isn't	19:30
GeneralAntilles	Well, some lawyer at Nokia, anyway.	19:30
wumpus	well, mp3 has no DRM measures built in as well, that's always an outer layer	19:31
wumpus	weird	19:31
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kulve	derf: now the image looks better on the actual dl page, but the thumbnail is still only a half of the logo. Any ideas how to fix that?	19:36
kulve	derf: btw. Did you already try to watch theora videos with the Media Player? ;)	19:36
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derf	kulve: I haven't actually installed OS 2008 yet.	19:38
kulve	oh, nm then :)	19:38
derf	Have you?	19:38
kulve	sure	19:38
kulve	(not a the smartest move maybe, but I wanted to update my packages for it..)	19:38
kulve	-a	19:39
derf	Maybe you just have a caching problem? The image looks fine here.	19:39
kulve	yeah, it's now ok here too. It seem to just take while before the page is actually updated	19:39
kulve	http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008	19:39
Khertan	system-log-deamon not installed ... where i can find it ?	19:39
kulve	there the thumbnails are only half of the logo..	19:39
derf	"Fresh"	19:40
kulve	Khertan: what is system-log-daemon..?	19:40
derf	I like it.	19:40
kulve	fresh fish	19:40
Khertan	on dependancy of sysklogd	19:40
kulve	Khertan: weird, I didn't need to install it..	19:40
derf	kulve: It seems to assume the 5:3 aspect ratio.	19:40
X-Fade_	kulve: Probably squid cache or something like that. Will fix itself probably..	19:40
kulve	X-Fade_: so it seems	19:40
derf	Probably easiest just to make an 800x480 image with extra padding on the sides.	19:41
kulve	or crop a bit from the top and the bottom..?	19:42
Khertan	go home ... by	19:42
Khertan	bye	19:42
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kulve	derf: I'll crop it, but it probably looks too bad, and then I'll add the extra padding (which will make the logo smaller)	19:44
derf	Oddly, that doesn't really bother me much. It was the horrible up-scaling artifacts that bugged me.	19:45
kulve	derf: now there's cropped image..	19:47
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derf	And down goes maemo.org.	19:50
kulve	did I DoS it..	19:50
alterego	kulve, if you tried to visit more than one page in the past hour. Then yes. You DoS'd it.	19:50
alterego	Damn you ..	19:50
derf	Yes. You _click_ _too_ _fast_.	19:50
derf	Oh, there it goes.	19:51
derf	Finally.	19:51
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alterego	Hah, I just realised, my maemo version number is inline with chinook now.	19:53
alterego	Maybe I should keep it this way ^_^	19:53
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procto	so... anyone have a jaiku invite they can spareL	20:02
procto	?	20:02
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alterego	procto, do you really think this is the place to ask that kind of question?	20:12
Andy80	I've a little idea for Maemo..... do you know Nokia Sports Tracker? It would be usefull to have a client for Maemo too :) They could publish a sort of API, so we could write a client for it, or they could write it for us... as they wish :P what do you tink about?	20:13
alterego	I don't think they do the sports I'm really interested in ;)	20:13
Andy80	uhm?	20:14
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* b0unc3 wizard-mounter 1.1 is out! https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=444		20:18
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GeneralAntilles	alterego, it worked for me. ;)	20:21
lopz	re	20:22
alterego	Time to forget about bug reports and just presume everything is broken until you get an anti-bug report.	20:22
sp3000	.oO( ...but who wants to mount a wizard? )	20:23
sp3000	I'll get me coat	20:23
alterego	It's probably for the maemo girls ..	20:24
acydlord	lol	20:24
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alterego	I should stop eating ketchup. I've never likd it that much.	20:26
Tak	I put on my robe and wizard hat.	20:26
alterego	And it has no value at all.	20:26
Atarii	lol	20:26
GeneralAntilles	Anti-oxydants!	20:26
glass_	why you keep eating it then	20:26
glass_	if you don't like the taste	20:26
BeBraw	how to include extra files (like glade ui definition) in .deb? http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/documentation/pymaemo_tutorial/python_maemo_howto.html doesn't cover that	20:26
alterego	Fish and chips are boring without _something_	20:26
alterego	And I _hate_ salt and vinegar.	20:27
Atarii	how strange	20:27
Atarii	are you english?	20:27
GeneralAntilles	Ha	20:27
alterego	Heh	20:27
glass_	how about mayo then?	20:27
GeneralAntilles	Tartar sauce?	20:27
glass_	or some kebab sauce or whatever	20:27
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, and mayo for the chips.	20:27
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alterego	I think I'll keep a stock of curry paste or something for the times I make fish and chips	20:27
alterego	Eesch .. I don't like Mayo either (or salad dressing)	20:28
Tak	BeBraw: one way is to add extra installation lines in the install step of debian/rules	20:28
alterego	The later being quite bad for you.	20:28
Atarii	bbq sauce ftw	20:28
GeneralAntilles	How can you not like mayo?	20:28
BeBraw	Tak: k. i will take a look at that. thanks	20:28
GeneralAntilles	and remember Miracle Whip != mayonnaise. :P	20:28
alterego	bbq sauce is too strong, like ketchup.	20:28
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Tak	for my C programs, I wrote a script that embeds the contents of a .glade file as a string constant in a header	20:29
GeneralAntilles	Honestly, alterego, I think you don't want to be happy. :P	20:29
Atarii	lol trudat @ GeneralAntilles about Miracle Whip	20:29
Atarii	its so bad	20:29
alterego	MAybe, or maybe I do and I'm just too fussy :P	20:29
alterego	I think curry sauce sounds like a great idea ..	20:30
Tuco1	GeneralAntilles, that disprove your theory of no girls on interenet	20:30
Tuco1	*internet	20:30
alterego	*fishnetz	20:30
GeneralAntilles	Ha	20:30
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Atarii	it's the best feeling when you get home after a weekend away, and get to eat all the chocolates in the advent calendar you've missed!	20:31
alterego	I'm not really a fan of chocolate ..	20:31
GeneralAntilles	Ha	20:31
GeneralAntilles	Chocolate is the best.	20:31
K`zan	:-)	20:31
alterego	Too much sugar.	20:32
* K`zan has two oreos for brekky :)		20:32
alterego	Makes me feel kind of ill.	20:32
GeneralAntilles	Dark chocolate?	20:32
alterego	Dark choc I can handle	20:32
K`zan	Dunked in coffee :)	20:32
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alterego	Dark chocolate mints are nice ..	20:33
GeneralAntilles	Andes	20:33
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alterego	Heh, the Maemo IRC channel is more like a Pub than a topical discussion area ^_^	20:34
\|R	cheers to that! :D	20:35
alterego	No religion, No politics ^_^	20:35
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\|R	No politics? :P	20:35
alterego	I don't really think anyonie likes talking about those things anyway.	20:36
procto	alterego: well, there's a relatively high proportion of maemo jaiku users, and it's not like I just popped in to leech invites :>	20:36
\|R	yeah, like we never see people screaming ron paul ;)	20:36
alterego	Who's that?	20:36
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* GeneralAntilles runs in a circle screaming "Ron Paul".		20:36
\|R	haha	20:36
* alterego runs in a circle shouting "My Bush! My Bush! My Bush is on Fire!"		20:37
alterego	That was some good eats.	20:37
GeneralAntilles	alterego saw god!	20:37
\|R	We don't need no water let the .... burn! :P	20:37
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alterego	A DIY mini-pizza, a piece of fish, and some baked chips.	20:37
alterego	Hmm .. I wonder if I can come up with some port forwarding magick that'd stop my apps disconnecting when switching between networks.	20:38
Atarii	just run quicker and they might not :p	20:39
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alterego	Heh, not likely.	20:39
alterego	IP and route will still more than likely be different ;)	20:40
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Atarii	clearly you're not running fast enough then ;)	20:41
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alterego	I don't even have to move when switcing from wireless to GPRS :P	20:41
elb	port forwarding won't do that	20:42
elb	you'd have to use a tunnel of some sort	20:42
dragorn	alterego: VPN a static virtual IP to a concentrator somewhere	20:42
elb	and I'm not aware of any software which can handle such a thing	20:42
alterego	Yes, with SSL ..	20:42
vegai	http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071210-nokia-wants-w3c-to-remove-out-ogg-from-upcoming-html5-standard.html	20:42
dragorn	alterego: and use the virtual IP for your routed traffic out	20:42
vegai	uhh, wtf?	20:42
alterego	~SSH ..	20:42
GeneralAntilles	Yes, vegai, it's been brought up several time.s	20:42
alterego	html5 is a joke.	20:42
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dragorn	alterego: then as long as your vpn stuff handles it and you do it within the tcp timeout, it'll be persistent across networks. SSH+tap interface might do it, openvpn should too	20:43
alterego	dragorn, okay, thanks for the pointers.	20:44
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Atarii	you could also use a BNC if it's just IRC that you want to stay on	20:45
dragorn	alterego: you might be able to kluge up something simpler with nc and tun/tap, for really ugly. There (was?) a standard for Mobile IP which did essentially the same thing (consistent private IPs mapped to a concentrator neutral of the carrier), there might be some sw there	20:45
* alterego shudders.		20:45
alterego	BNC is for the newbs.	20:45
alterego	screen ftw! :)	20:45
* Tak recommend dircproxy		20:45
alterego	And no, this isn't IRC.	20:45
alterego	Not specifically.	20:46
alterego	This is SSH connections and Pidgin.	20:46
acydlord	pidgin usually stays life for me between net switches	20:46
alterego	I might just do a web interface to libpidgin.	20:46
acydlord	unless i wander in to a black spot	20:46
elb	YAM!	20:49
alterego	Like downtown LA?	20:49
alterego	(wonders if that was too racist)	20:49
Atarii	yam?	20:49
elb	Yet Another Meebo	20:50
alterego	The darkside of the moon?	20:50
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elb	writing a libpurple web client is this generation's irc client	20:50
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\|R	anyone remember where i can get a list of the participating countries for the developer coupon/rebate program?	20:52
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\|R	(US, UK, France, .... ?)	20:53
alterego	"rebate program"?	20:53
\|R	discount or whatever :P	20:53
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\|R	the 99E thingie :)	20:53
alterego	No,	20:53
\|R	_the_ code! :P	20:53
alterego	What country are you in?	20:53
\|R	France... but apparently this work all over europe	20:54
alterego	Interesting, the New N82 directional pad looks identical to that of the N810's ..	20:54
\|R	i just don't know which other european countries are in	20:54
alterego	Yes, the UK is in it.	20:54
alterego	I'd say any country that has a nokia shop.	20:54
alterego	And if not, they might be able to order from europe.nokia	20:54
\|R	these 3 are in, i just don't remember the list i had to choose from :)	20:54
\|R	as i'm not in france, and want a qwerty... (long story)	20:55
alterego	Heh, order it from the UK then.	20:55
alterego	Though, I would have expected the france model to be qwerty.	20:55
\|R	nah, azerty :/	20:56
alterego	Oh, shame.	20:56
alterego	And you're in France?	20:56
\|R	but best thing would be to sell my coupon and get a north american version... but that's going to be hard (nobody trust code vs money exchange over the net ...)	20:56
\|R	non, Canada	20:56
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\|R	s/non/no	20:56
\|R	but i have family there	20:56
alterego	There isn't a Canadian nokia online shop?	20:56
Atarii	n800 £134.99 delivered from play.com for today (out of stock tho)	20:56
alterego	Oh, right.	20:56
glaubervinicius	has anyone knows examples of business applications on top of maemo?	20:57
\|R	I'm trying to get a friend of the family in the UK to get it... 2nd best case after a N-A version...	20:57
\|R	alterego : yes there is a canadian shop, but not all shop are in the discount program	20:57
\|R	that's why i need that list which i forgot to see what my options are :/	20:57
acydlord	does nokiausa ship to canada?	20:57
alterego	"nokia online"	20:57
\|R	acydlord : nop	20:58
\|R	acydlord : and anyway right now, my coupon is locked to europe	20:58
\|R	i asked the nokia guy responsible for the coupon	20:58
acydlord	15th is when the usa codes work right?	20:58
Fritzy	How do you apply for a coupon? Where's the link to that info?	20:58
\|R	couldn't change it (i would have had a contact in the states now but as i didn't know when i had to choose)	20:58
\|R	Fritzy : it's over	20:58
\|R	it was 1-2 months ago	20:58
Fritzy	ah	20:59
\|R	So, best thing would be, sell the coupon for 280 Euro, get a canadian version.... 2nd best will be get a UK version with channel 10-13 only at 10mW... 3rd will be getting stuck with the azerty version :P	20:59
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acydlord	i'm probably not gonna be able to pick up my n810 for about a month as i'm flat broke :(	21:00
\|R	:(	21:00
Fritzy	I'd love an 810, but I don't need GPS, and the price difference is astounding.	21:00
Tak	more available storage with n800 as well	21:01
\|R	yeah, it's really just a nicely integrated n800 + gps + 1/2 kbd :)	21:01
Fritzy	Yeah, but no keyboard!	21:01
\|R	- SD cards...	21:01
GeneralAntilles	It's got a perfectly functional thumbboard.	21:01
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Fritzy	Their site mentioned that the screen was better in sunlight on the 810 as well.	21:02
\|R	transreflective screen (whatever that is ;)	21:02
acydlord	yeah, the n810 has a transreflective layer	21:02
Fritzy	I'd /like/ the GPS for hackery like Jabber extended presence, but really, for $300 more, it just doesn't seem worth it.	21:03
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alterego	You can buy it in Canada \|R	21:03
\|R	alterego : i know, i can buy it full price...	21:03
\|R	but i have a 99E coupon	21:03
alterego	\|R, check out the nseries site ..	21:04
alterego	\|R, that code probably wont be usable until friday.	21:04
\|R	the 15 i heard... but it's not supposed to work in canada	21:04
\|R	it wasn't on the list and it's not supposed to be added	21:04
alterego	Oh well.	21:05
pupnik_	Tak: rgvkb package?	21:05
alterego	Forget what I said about the nseries site too. It's not in the product listings O_O	21:05
\|R	hehe :)	21:05
acydlord	i know 2 people that picked up the n810 from tiger direct while that had that limited run	21:05
Tak	eh?	21:06
alterego	Heh, a Nokia "flagship" store is coming to London.	21:06
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pupnik_	14:43 < Tak> speaking of which, would anybody like to test the rgvkb package	21:07
Tak	ah	21:07
alterego	rubygame VKB.	21:07
Tak	yes, would you like to?	21:07
pupnik_	bleh no	21:07
pupnik_	sorry	21:08
alterego	Heh	21:08
* alterego forces Ruby down pupnik_ 's throat.		21:08
alterego	You will take it!	21:08
Tak	aww, isn't the thought of a sdl-based vkb tempting?	21:08
alterego	Tak, I can't even persuade people with hildon desktop plugins :)	21:09
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Tak	sure, but hildon desktop plugins already exist in c ;-)	21:09
Fritzy	sdl virtual keyboard? sounds neat. Might be fun to do in pygame.	21:09
Tak	no, it mightn't	21:10
Fritzy	haha	21:10
Fritzy	whyn't not'nt?	21:10
alterego	Python is boring. Everyone uses Python.	21:10
GeneralAntilles	notn't :P	21:10
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Fritzy	So, let me get this straight, you use Ruby because Python is too popular?	21:11
alterego	Sure, isn't that why anyone learns a programming language?	21:12
alterego	As soon as a language gets popular it gets crap. Just look at C++ and Java ..	21:12
acydlord	visual basic =x	21:13
mgedmin	some languages get crap before they get popular :)	21:13
Tak	indeed	21:13
* mgedmin feeds Python a chicken		21:13
alterego	Heehee	21:14
alterego	It's probably related to the popular girls in high school being stupid too.	21:14
* czr peeks		21:17
czr	I guess the training stuff wasn't published today?	21:17
alterego	I thought that happened last week?	21:17
alterego	(Could have sworn I saw it online)	21:18
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czr	hmm. you did?	21:18
alterego	Maybe ..	21:18
* alterego checks		21:18
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alterego	That's interesting ..	21:21
alterego	The "training" section is blocked. But I could have sworn I navigated there a few days ago.	21:21
alterego	Someone posted a link here that I followed.	21:21
alterego	I could be mistaken though :)	21:21
alterego	I get distracted easily.	21:21
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glaubervinicius	i am finding for business applications that have been developed on top of maemo...	21:23
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alterego	glaubervinicius, what kind of business apps. Have you checked the maemo application catalog. Most apps can be found there.	21:24
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glaubervinicius	yes... i have checked the catalog... but most of the applications are related to office (doc, spreadsheets, presentations, dict, etc.)..	21:25
glaubervinicius	i am finding for applications that have been used for enterprises in order to automate their business processes	21:25
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alterego	glaubervinicius, if you've not found anything they don't exist.	21:26
GeneralAntilles	It's a little specialized for such a small platform.	21:27
alterego	It helps if you're looking for something specific.	21:27
czr	alterego, hmm. it should appear somewhere there under the training link when it's ready	21:27
czr	I guess	21:27
czr	but I'm beyond caring. my flight leaves in some hours :-)	21:28
alterego	:)	21:28
alterego	Yeah, have a few beers and relax :)	21:28
alterego	How did you get on with pygtk?	21:28
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czr	it was fun actually	21:28
czr	I took some examples and rewrote them into more pythonic form	21:29
alterego	Yeah, it's nice doing Gtk in high level languages.	21:29
\|R	anyone from europe here came to north america and had trouble connecting to APs on channel 10-11 ? :P	21:29
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alterego	\|R, no, only 12 + 13 :P	21:29
\|R	;)	21:29
* czr always uses channel 16, it's always available		21:30
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alterego	Hah	21:30
\|R	czr but stll, conflicts with 14 from japan :P	21:30
czr	the japanese are wrong and can be ignored!	21:30
* czr shakes fist		21:30
\|R	hehe	21:31
alterego	Hah	21:31
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alterego	czr, been working on my hildon desktop plugin code. I've got it to display an error dialog when it breaks. As opposed to crashing the entire desktop and causing it to restart. Or the other choice, doing absolutely nothing :)	21:39
alterego	Both of which are natively supported by the Python hildon desktop loader. ^_^	21:39
alterego	I just decided it was time I stopped walking in Python's shadow and came out into the open ;)	21:40
czr	or maybe it's the SDK ;-)	21:40
alterego	SDK, device .. Whatever :P	21:40
* czr opens the window for alterego to go out into the open through		21:40
alterego	Hah	21:40
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czr	see the world :-)	21:40
* alterego tries to remember what floor we're on.		21:40
alterego	I think maemo is in the basement.	21:41
czr	it an unimportant variable	21:41
czr	wrong. maemo is where it belongs	21:41
czr	basement even :-)	21:41
alterego	Hah	21:41
alterego	I'm working on a more advanced version now. It'll display a full stack trace.	21:41
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czr	since universe started?	21:44
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alterego	As far as the Ruby interpreter is concerned .. Sure .. :)	21:45
czr	it isn't "full stack trace" then.	21:45
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alterego	I'll leave that feature for the anal python devs.	21:46
alterego	It's glorious writing crap code that _doesn't_ break the system and tells you why it's not working :)	21:47
alterego	The plugin developer doesn't even have to worry about it ^_^	21:47
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khertan	alterego: https://garage.maemo.org/tracker/?func=detail&atid=229&aid=1736&group_id=40	21:49
alterego	Heh	21:50
alterego	That's such bs.	21:50
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alterego	That plugin was developed as an _EXAMPLE_ by rocha.	21:50
alterego	With that attitude you'll never get hildon-desktop support in pymaemo ..	21:50
khertan	clear	21:50
alterego	You should pick up ruby :P	21:51
khertan	alterego: lol	21:51
alterego	I'm sorry, I know you must be gettin' pretty frustrated by now. I would be ..	21:51
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khertan	i'm ...	21:52
khertan	i ve just answered	21:52
khertan	as you said ..	21:52
alterego	Heh	21:52
alterego	I wrestled with the ruby hildon-desktop loader for about a week.	21:52
kuzew	hey all, has anyone found a fix for the soft poweroff option within the new release (OS 2008)?	21:53
alterego	Probably spent 24 hours in total on that one 220 line file.	21:53
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alterego	I ended up rewriting it 2 times. The 3rd version just started working miraculously ^_^	21:53
khertan	spend 24h to compile already existing binding	21:53
alterego	Oh my	21:53
Vulcanis	Does anyone know when the official os2008 will be released?	21:54
khertan	and still doesn't work	21:54
czr	in 2008?	21:54
khertan	i think i should rewrite it myself ...	21:54
czr	or in the year 2000?	21:54
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alterego	I'd help you but .. I don't have python installed in my SDK and I'd personally prefer to keep it that way. Nothing against Python, it's just not my forte anymore.	21:54
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alterego	khertan, have you found _any_ error messages when you start af-sb-init or attempt to load the plugin?	21:56
alterego	If the loader is broken you should get an "unknown plugin type: python"	21:56
khertan	only cannot load "homememory" module	21:56
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alterego	home memory module ..	21:56
khertan	it s my module	21:57
alterego	That's very strange. And this is the _basic_ example python plugin?	21:57
khertan	yes	21:57
khertan	a gtk.Button()	21:57
khertan	and that all	21:57
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alterego	Hrm .. Never seen that before.	21:57
alterego	I could be wrong. But I'm sure that's python	21:58
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alterego	In fact, that's obviously pymaemo ..	21:58
khertan	i think there is a problem in the loader	21:59
alterego	So the problem there is in the dependencies. Either the plugin loader has a module it requires that isn't in your load path. Or the example plugin does.	21:59
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* alterego takes a break and looks at the python loader code for khertan.		22:00
khertan	thanks	22:00
alterego	I probably know this system better than rocha by now ;)	22:00
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alterego	Well, I see where the error is being generated./	22:02
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khertan	alterego: great	22:04
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khertan	arg my vmware network doesn't work anymore	22:09
czr	you upgraded it into noware network	22:09
czr	your license for packet bits has run out of bits	22:09
khertan	it s just the wmware player ... on linux	22:10
pupnik_	"Just for the record. I asked Nokia/Maemo team and they told me the day we will finally be able to use our codes is expected to be the 15 of december." - epertinez on ITT	22:13
alterego	khertan, is that the only error you get?	22:13
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alterego	Saturday? That's strange ..	22:13
pupnik_	Mon Dec 10 20:13:10 UTC 2007	22:14
alterego	Maybe they're counting for time zones.	22:14
alterego	I presumed it'd all be done on the 14th (friday)	22:14
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alterego	This loader code isn't pretty ..	22:14
alterego	He first tests that the module he wants to load has not been loaded if (pModule == NULL)	22:15
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alterego	Then after that, he seems to test if it's not NULL.	22:15
alterego	Then there's an else clause that spurts that error message.	22:15
alterego	Oh, actually that kind of makes sense :/	22:18
alterego	khertan, have you tried putting your module in pythons standard library path?	22:18
khertan	g_path_get_basename (module_file)	22:19
khertan	so we can't provide module path	22:19
khertan	it should be in the standart library path ...	22:19
alterego	Exactly.	22:19
alterego	That's f*ck'd up really.	22:19
khertan	if i understand it should be : /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/	22:19
khertan	i ve tryed this	22:19
alterego	No	22:19
khertan	no ?	22:19
alterego	Not in there.	22:19
alterego	In one of pythons standard search directories.	22:20
khertan	where to ?	22:20
alterego	Like /usr/lib/python/*/ ..	22:20
alterego	Probably the sitedir would be best.	22:20
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khertan	i m trying this	22:22
alterego	I think there's a bug in his loader. It's completely ignoring file location in the keyfile (.desktop file).	22:23
alterego	He seems to rely on the file being in pythons load path.	22:24
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desertc	I am interested in using Ekiga on my N800...	22:25
Robot101	did you try the built in SIP?	22:25
khertan	it s now in the package-site ...	22:27
khertan	in ipython i can import it directly with : import homememory	22:27
khertan	but still don't work	22:27
alterego	Okay	22:27
alterego	Have you restarted the desktop?	22:27
alterego	af-sb-init.sh restart?	22:27
alterego	You're still under X86 target right? Because don't expect _anything_ to work in the armel target ..	22:28
khertan	i'm on the device	22:28
khertan	as i m now at home	22:28
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khertan	and that network doesn t seem to work in my maemo vmware image	22:29
khertan	(sysklogd installed :) )	22:29
alterego	Heh	22:31
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* czr plays with his new latex toys		22:34
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alterego	Kinky	22:34
Sho_	czr: let me guess: http://phonefingers.com/	22:34
Sho_	the finger condome for use with touch screens ;)	22:34
alterego	You know, I still haven't found a decent kit bag :(	22:34
czr	Sho_, heh. that looks evil :-)	22:35
czr	and no.	22:35
khertan	czr > this latex one ? http://www.sex-toys.fr/vibromasseurs/vibromasseurs-factory/vibromasseur-dinky-digger-watermelon-11035.html	22:35
khertan	;)	22:35
* Sho_ wants that discount code to work and rattles at the gates of the Nokia online store, torch and pitchfork in hand		22:36
Sho_	(wait, that would require three arms ..)	22:36
czr	heh khertan. no	22:36
alterego	Sho_, you must be pretty cold and lonely :P	22:36
czr	you people should definitely get out more often :-)	22:36
Sho_	alterego: Gadget withdrawal :)	22:37
alterego	You'd have to have owned one to have withdrawal :P	22:37
alterego	I think you've got kiddie christmas indrawal.	22:37
Sho_	alterego: I did have an N800	22:37
* Tak perks at mention of latex toys		22:37
Sho_	Not a Christian, so I suppose it would be live-long withdrawal, which might indeed have severe effects	22:38
czr	live-long reminds me of a cigarette pack I once bought in HK	22:39
czr	bright yellow pack, with a very old man with a very long beard on it. "long life" was the brand.	22:39
Sho_	Very subtle ;)	22:39
czr	I thought it was somehow ironic. but .. in a country where the same company makes cigarettes, sweat clothes and ping pong tables, one can't go wrong.	22:39
alterego	Wow, they must be a huge monopoly. :)	22:40
czr	in china everything is so big and so small	22:40
czr	although to understand that sentence you'd have to live in the country for a while.	22:40
czr	http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/misc_china17_b.jpg	22:41
alterego	objects big, spaces small :P	22:42
czr	http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/misc_china34_a.jpg	22:42
czr	probably should stop pasting those links :-)	22:42
czr	there are plenty more of those where those two came from :-)	22:42
Tak	czr: Is it ok if I hate life, but still don't pick the flowers?	22:42
Sho_	"ASS WORLD" could be a pack-animal boutique, of course	22:43
czr	Tak, you could always argue with the ground keepers	22:43
czr	most likely it would be an old cranky woman	22:43
khertan	lol	22:43
czr	and you mostly lose arguments with those	22:43
khertan	This is a simplified interface to PyImport_ImportModuleEx() below, leaving the globals and locals arguments set to NULL. When the name argument contains a dot (when it specifies a submodule of a package), the fromlist argument is set to the list ['*'] so that the return value is the named module rather than the top-level package containing it as would otherwise be the case. (Unfortunately, this has an additional side effect wh	22:43
khertan	en name in fact specifies a subpackage instead of a submodule: the submodules specified in the package's __all__ variable are loaded.) Return a new reference to the imported module, or NULL with an exception set on failure. Before Python 2.4, the module may still be created in the failure case -- examine sys.modules to find out. Starting with Python 2.4, a failing import of a module no longer leaves the module in sys.modules.	22:43
khertan	Changed in version 2.4: failing imports remove incomplete module objects.	22:43
Tak	perhaps if I enrage her enough, she will divorce me from my life	22:43
khertan	oups .... sorry	22:43
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* czr removes the V-key from khertan's keyboard		22:44
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czr	Tak, or probably feng shui you away	22:44
khertan	heh ... it s not a v-key :)	22:44
* Sho_ suggests using a client that prevents such incidents		22:44
khertan	third click :)	22:44
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* czr removes randomly keys from khertan's keyboard until mistakes don't happen		22:44
alterego	khertan, got it working yet?	22:44
khertan	(still not a key)	22:44
khertan	alterego: not at all :)	22:45
Tak	she will position me so as to be aesthetically pleasing and promote qi flow?	22:45
alterego	Meh	22:45
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alterego	khertan, well, it looks like it adds hildondesktoplibdir to the include path.	22:45
czr	Tak, old ladies like this one: http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/misc_china54_a.jpg	22:45
alterego	Something I presume is defined in the makoefile.	22:45
czr	Tak, yes. or rather in your case position you so that you don't inhibit qi flow :-)	22:45
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khertan	alterego: hildondesktoplibdir	22:46
alterego	Yeah	22:47
Tak	I inhibit qi flow regardless of position	22:47
alterego	Probably /usr/lib/hildon-desktop :)	22:47
czr	maybe the best picture to describe "everything is so large and small": http://koltsoff.com/pub/pics/china1998/shanghai_china20_c.jpg	22:47
khertan	hildonpluginloaderlib_LTLIBRARIES = libpythonpluginloader.la	22:47
khertan	alterego: and it doesn't work too in /usr/lib/hildon-desktop ...	22:48
alterego	khertan, that was a guess ..	22:48
alterego	It's probably /usr/lib/hildon-home ..	22:48
khertan	tryed too :)	22:49
khertan	other idea ?	22:49
alterego	Actually, you're doing status bar applets so that'd be /usr/lib/hildon-status-bar	22:49
khertan	i'm not doing status bar applets :)	22:50
khertan	not yet :)	22:50
alterego	Oh, right.	22:50
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alterego	khertan, well. I can't really do anymore. Short of installing python and having ago myself. But I don't know python anymore so I'm not really prepared to learn it again :P	22:52
khertan	after copying it everywhere i get now : Could not initialize Python module	22:52
alterego	khertan, I'll check.	22:53
khertan	so : PyImport_ImportModule (module_name); fails	22:53
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alterego	And what came before that.	22:53
alterego	You should edit the loader to take absolute paths ..	22:54
alterego	Or get rocha to release a flippin' deb ..	22:55
alterego	With proper working examples ;)	22:55
czr	is pymaemo/python on 2008 in working order btw?	22:56
czr	I mean, what are the chances that the whole sdk will break when using it?	22:56
czr	or the device(s)	22:56
khertan	pymaemo work great on os2008	22:57
alterego	czr, very little. Unless yo uwant to write hildon desktop plugins ;)	22:57
khertan	there is a release for it	22:57
czr	hmm. maybe I should take it for a spin at some point	22:57
khertan	Or get rocha to release a flippin' deb > i think i should better do it myself if i want this work ...	22:57
* czr nods		22:57
alterego	Hah	22:58
czr	I'm planning to do some simple way of constructing arch-indep debs at some point	22:58
dragorn	has anyone gotten the radio app working on the 810? It doesn't error, but I don't find any radio stations, either	23:00
alterego	dragorn, works fine for me.	23:00
Vulcanis	did you plug in headphones?	23:00
dragorn	Vulcanis: yup	23:00
Vulcanis	Hm.	23:00
dragorn	alterego: k	23:00
dragorn	I'll chalk it up to "user error" and look at it more seriously later then	23:01
* alterego contemplates how to make a standard ruby error mechanism for maemo.		23:01
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alterego	I should be able to create a ruby daemon at some point. But that's a bit of work ..	23:01
desertc	Does the Ekiga port work well on N800? I bought 20$ of minutes from a company which is not Skype or Gizmo, and I don't know a way to configure their SIP server in those two applications.	23:01
Tak	please, a turn-offable daemon	23:02
khertan	alterego: i'm looking at ruby :) it very similar to python	23:02
khertan	s/it/it's	23:03
alterego	Yes, it's a lot like Python in many ways.	23:03
Tak	except it doesn't fight you every step of the way	23:03
* alterego chuckles.		23:03
dragorn	alterego: have you looked at a ruby 1.9 port yet?	23:03
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khertan	except it doesn't fight you every step of the way ???	23:05
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khertan	# en Ruby	23:06
khertan	if 0	23:06
khertan	puts "0 est vrai/true"	23:06
khertan	else	23:06
khertan	puts "0 est faux/false"	23:06
khertan	end	23:06
khertan	ouch ... this suck !	23:06
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Tak	?	23:07
khertan	the result is "0 est vrai/true"	23:09
hexa	khertan, should it be if 0 .. puts is false ,, else puts is true?	23:09
Tak	puts('0 is ' + 0 ? 'true' : 'false')	23:09
khertan	... with all language if 0 doesn t enter in the if condition	23:09
khertan	it ll be annoying and source of many error	23:09
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alterego	dragorn, yes. It's in the pipes.	23:10
pupnik_	http://youtube.com/watch?v=CII2crrTEe0 new one for me - streaming media server Linux MCE with nokia 770 client	23:11
dragorn	alterego: Looking forwards to it. I find 1.8 too slow to use for large apps (ie, msf) but I read some promising benchmarks on 1.9	23:11
alterego	What's wrong with 0 being evaluated to true?	23:11
sp3000	it's a bit unconventional	23:12
alterego	dragorn, msf?	23:12
dragorn	alterego: metasploit	23:12
alterego	Oh, it's not "C".	23:12
khertan	alterego: it s unconventional and different from many language	23:12
alterego	Give a shit ..	23:12
alterego	0 is a value.	23:12
khertan	and when you switch many times a day ... it should be source of many errors :)	23:12
alterego	Nil is not a value	23:12
alterego	and false is false	23:12
khertan	switch language	23:12
fysa	that is an important concept and I hope other languages take it in.	23:12
alterego	Doesn't with me.	23:12
alterego	I use C and Ruby all the time and I've never had that problem	23:13
khertan	anyway... it s seem s a interesting language	23:13
elb	I've run into that before, I use primarily C and ruby	23:13
elb	if I've been doing a lot of C, sometimes I expect 0 to be false in ruby ... but, generally, ruby's model is consistent for ruby	23:14
sp3000	HOLY CRAP THAT'S A BIG FISH	23:14
alterego	Really, when using C you should use 'FALSE' and 'NULL' you should rely on '0' as an immediate value in a test. ever ..	23:14
* sp3000 clicks on the ogg-support "screenshot" instead of the title		23:14
pupnik_	oh duh, that's not streaming, it's a remote control for a PC media center	23:14
alterego	s/should/shouldn't/	23:14
infobot	alterego meant: Really, when using C you shouldn't use 'FALSE' and 'NULL' you should rely on '0' as an immediate value in a test. ever ..	23:14
Tak	I'm in line with alterego	23:14
khertan	alterego: right	23:14
alterego	Shut up infotwat	23:14
alterego	Bloody substituted the wrong should ;)	23:15
elb	so, what is this, Monkey_ was booted and someone reinserted a different annoying infobot?	23:15
alterego	infobot has been around as long as Monkey I believe.	23:15
khertan	alterego: so maybe i should try ruby by pratice ... :) hildondesktop binding is available ? :)	23:15
alterego	khertan, yup	23:15
elb	oh, monkey just traditionally had the jump on annoying?	23:15
alterego	I'll upload the latest packages. Hang on ;)	23:15
khertan	alterego: do u know good tuto on ruby for people having experiences with other language ?	23:16
alterego	khertan, read "programming ruby" by the pragmatic programmers. An older version is available online so just google and you shall find.	23:17
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* alterego burns off a debian install cd.		23:19
alterego	Going to the datacenter tomorrow to reinstall a server .. Manually.	23:19
alterego	Why my employer couldn't opt for KVM access I don't know O_O	23:19
alterego	I have to drive, to London, at peak traffic times -_-	23:20
* czr will visit alterego one of these days		23:21
khertan	i must go on	23:22
khertan	bye	23:22
khertan	and thanks alterego for your help	23:22
czr	khertan, s/i/my heart/.	23:22
czr	otherwise it doesn't quite work.	23:22
khertan	:)	23:22
alterego	Hah	23:23
* czr hides couple of celine dion CDs in khertan's backpocket		23:23
* alterego chuckles.		23:23
* alterego phones khertan's girlfriend and secretly tells her to check his back pockets when he gets home.		23:24
czr	hmm. I wonder. if a flight is scheduled to depart at 0615, at what time is the check-in desk open? :-)	23:24
czr	secretly tell: "I have a secret and I won't tell it to you, but if you guess enough times, you might get it right"?	23:24
czr	similar to ferenc's "working silently" :-)	23:24
czr	ninja-like.	23:25
alterego	I think I'm gonna have to run to the shops in a minute.	23:25
alterego	(have run out of tobacco)	23:25
\|\|cw	people still use check-in desks?	23:27
czr	\|\|cw, some people do	23:27
\|\|cw	i guess if there's a problem....	23:27
czr	indeed	23:27
czr	and this flight is complicated. have two switches and going to the us	23:27
suihkulokki	http://www.marcofolio.net/images/stories/fun/imagedump/demotivational_posters/ninjas.jpg	23:27
czr	so I prefer to do it the old-school way. even with electronic check-in I'd still have to drop the bags and fill in the US-required travel information blah	23:28
czr	heh suihkulokki	23:28
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\|\|cw	they give you the form on the plane, you can fill it out before you get tot he gate	23:28
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czr	not that travel visa	23:28
czr	but the stuff that they record in the databases	23:28
czr	like addresses where you're going to stay, etc, etc.	23:29
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\|\|cw	yes, they give that to you on the plane	23:29
suihkulokki	all the "security theater" checks make boarding such a pain in the ass these days	23:29
czr	\|\|cw, they haven't so far. /me shrugs	23:29
* czr agrees with suihkulokki		23:29
czr	it was much nicer before all the crap. one could actually travel quite fast with planes	23:29
\|\|cw	I went to france last year, they gave us the forms before landing	23:30
\|\|cw	maybe just AA does it	23:30
czr	\|\|cw, maybe it works the other way around you see	23:30
czr	EU doesn't require all that info.	23:30
czr	US does.	23:30
czr	cause otherwise terrorists would invade the country.	23:30
\|\|cw	getting into france was MUCH easier than getting back home though	23:30
czr	but now the form will stop them.	23:30
\|\|cw	IIRC, I had to fill out the same form 15 years ago	23:31
czr	that was for visa.	23:31
\|\|cw	but I didn't have to take my shoes off	23:31
czr	heh	23:31
\|\|cw	no, this was upon landing	23:31
\|\|cw	declarations and such	23:31
GeneralAntilles	Security is such a joke.	23:31
czr	that's customs then	23:31
GeneralAntilles	If somebody wants to hijack a plane, they're going to hijack a plane.	23:31
\|\|cw	that's what you said, customs	23:31
GeneralAntilles	If they want to keep that from happening, they're gonna have to make everybody fly naked.	23:31
czr	\|\|cw, no. we also have to fill additional paper thingy	23:31
czr	\|\|cw, homeland security wants to know who people are travelling to while in the US	23:32
czr	so one has to write addresses and all that	23:32
czr	GeneralAntilles, and require proper body searches too	23:32
\|\|cw	GeneralAntilles: close, just scatter-gather x-ray machines so that you appear naked on the screen	23:32
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lardman	evening all	23:34
* czr bows to lardman		23:34
czr	evening master	23:34
lardman	czr: what have I done today..... :)	23:34
czr	I haven't reached my bowing-quota this week. so I'm somewhat late :-)	23:35
lardman	ah, bow away then, and if you know anything about the innards of Tremor I'll return the bows	23:35
* czr keeps the bowing process without any feedback paths		23:35
czr	sorry no..	23:35
lardman	http://maemo.pastebin.com/m18322f0c for anyone who's interested, top one's the DSP, bottom one's my x86_64 machine, pretty much the same code	23:36
* lardman has to work out why the two don't do the same thing		23:37
czr	seems that the call in sync_out behaves differently	23:37
czr	the first ogg_sync_pageseek seems to work identically, although it doesn't print out everything out	23:37
czr	"cmp64_int(boundary,0)!=0" ?	23:38
czr	maybe the input stream is not aligned enough for the code to work properly on it?	23:38
czr	although I have hard time believing that should matter, but I don't know the innards of ogg or arm for that matter	23:38
pupnik	http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4422887272477313460&hl=en wowwwww linux media center edition	23:38
khertan	czr hides couple of celine dion CDs in khertan's backpocket > hopefully she don't like his music !	23:40
czr	heh	23:41
czr	I'm sure she's used to constructive critisism :-)	23:41
\|R	http://cgi.ebay.com/Unlock-Nokia-810-Phone-Today-NO-TOOLS-REQUIRED_W0QQitemZ290186613720QQihZ019QQcategoryZ64355QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem	23:41
\|R	hahaha	23:41
khertan	mouarf	23:42
Atarii	lol what the hell	23:42
lardman	czr: I'll have to add some more output comments to the DSP code and see if I can work out where it diverges	23:42
\|R	honest! no tools required! hahaha	23:42
inz	\|R, they have the wrong picture there, nokia 810 looks like this: http://www.nokia.fi/NOKIA_FINLAND_50/Find_and_Compare/810/810_main.jpg	23:43
\|R	that's a remote-phone? :P	23:43
czr	lardman, probably some code that "checks" for parameters when the routine is entered	23:44
czr	lardman, you could also try printing out the last 15 bits of pointers to check their alignments (if they differ), but I could completely wrong of course as well :-)	23:44
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derf	lardman: It looks like it tries to parse the first page, finds that it has no bytes buffered, and on x86_64, reads in 1024 bytes, and on the DSP doesn't even try to read any bytes.	23:46
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derf	Look at, e.g., vorbisfile.c:122	23:46
nwidger	hello	23:46
nwidger	has anyone here ordered an n810 from provantage.com?	23:47
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dragorn	no, though I've ordered a few things in the past years from provantage and never gotten screwed	23:50
nwidger	dragorn: well that's good i guess	23:51
nwidger	they keep pushing back the shipping date :\	23:51
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dragorn	I got mine at the nokia store in nyc, and there were people from 2 or 3 other stores in the area in there talking to the nokia people about when they might get more in	23:52
dragorn	they're pretty hard to get	23:52
czr	maybe they're too busy fixing all my reported bugs in the SDK?	23:53
* czr hides & runs		23:53
lardman	derf: ok, let me take a look at my reading code	23:54
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nwidger	dragorn: that's disheartening :(	23:55
inz	czr, you hide and run quite often	23:56
inz	czr, is it some kind of assassin excercise for you?	23:56
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Spastic	Hello	23:56

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