IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2007-12-08

glass_yeah that sounds good00:00
GeneralAntillesGoogle ad crap?00:00
alteregoIt wouldn't be _so_ bad, but when hildon desktop starts it loses all the other home plugins ..00:00
ds3yeah, the units I have seen come up with a little toolbar by default that cycles through ads00:00
glass_alterego: i just wish all j2me vm's did that00:00
GeneralAntillesWTF are you talking about, ds3?00:00
GeneralAntillesThe Web shortcut applet?00:01
ds3letme see if I can find a reference to it; I helped a coworker setup theirs00:01
ds3GeneralAntilles: does that thing cycle between different things?00:01
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GeneralAntillesDon't think so00:01
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GeneralAntillesIt was setup for the Tableteer site when I first turned mine on00:02
GeneralAntillesthe 770 had the same thing.00:02
GeneralAntillesI disabled it.00:02
ds3let me find a picture00:02
alteregoIt's static00:03
GeneralAntillesand you have the same thing on your 770.00:04
ds3no, this one cycles through different things00:04
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GeneralAntillesI'm certain I can't imagine what that would be.00:05
GeneralAntillesI've used my N800 every day for 11 months.00:05
ds3i wonder if it is a recent thing they tacked on00:05
GeneralAntillesAlso doubtful00:05
ds3I can leave a wifi connection on and watch it cycle between different ads00:05
alteregoWhat OS version?00:06
GeneralAntillesas I've used every revision of the N800 firmware ever publicly released.00:06
ds3alterego: whatever is shipping00:06
GeneralAntillesIs it on the desktop?00:06
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GeneralAntillesThen it's either the Tableteer or the Web shortcut applet.00:07
GeneralAntillesBoth of which I disabled the day I got the device00:07
alteregoMe too ..00:07
GeneralAntillesand both of which you have on your 770.00:07
alteregoI only have the clock and my own ruby home applet on the desktop.00:07
ds3it looks like the tableteer thing but it was cycling between different things00:08
ds3I found the tableteer on the 77000:08
* alterego oopsies.00:08
ds3i wish i still have the 800 I had access to00:08
GeneralAntillesBut, seriously, ds3, you can turn it off00:08
GeneralAntillesand since I'm baffled by what you might be talking about00:08
GeneralAntilleswe can conclude that it's not an issue. :)00:08
ds3fair enough00:08
ds3different thing, anyone used one of those checked book style cases on the 800 in place of the hard cover on the 770?00:09
infobotds3 meant: different thing, anyone used one of those check book style cases on the 800 in place of the hard cover on the 770?00:10
vlad_for the record, the case that comes with the n810 is pretty damn ugly00:10
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vlad_it looks like something that a doctor would pull some kind of unpleasant testing tool out of00:10
ds3vlad_: it comes with a case? all I saw was a little sack00:10
vlad_(seriously, cyan and gray?)00:10
vlad_yeah, it's some light gray faux leather thing which has cyan felt on the inside00:10
vlad_well here, we live in the future, let me take a photo00:12
ds3alternatively, are there other physical protection for the 800 people use? I am a bit rough on things and the 770's hard case has been very good00:13
GeneralAntillesI just used the sunglasses-style case it came with.00:13
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GeneralAntillesIt's resided in my pocket with my cellphone with no problems.00:13
vlad_apparently, it takes a while for the future to work, waiting for my photo to show up on flickr that I sent00:14
vlad_oh, so this isn't a hard case, it's just a leather sleeve thing00:14
alteregoIt's not even leather :P00:14
vlad_yeah, sorry, faux-leather00:14
lardman|afkwhat 64bit number has a low 32bit=-1 and a high 32bits=-1?00:15
alteregoI just thought it was felt ^_^00:15
vlad_the inside is felt00:15
alteregoI think I'll make a steal case for the N810 ^_^00:16
alteregoJust a metal sleeve.00:16
ds3a la the 770 case?00:16
alteregoSomething like that. More like the soft sleeve that comes with the N800, but rigid.00:17
ds3wonder if the reed switches are still there00:17
alteregoHmm .. I can't find hciconfig O_O00:17
ds3cuz the close lid and autodisconnect to save power is really nice on the 77000:17
alteregoNo, there's no way the N800 has the magnetic sensor.00:18
alteregoThat's a silly thought.00:18
ds3one can wish =)00:18
GeneralAntillesds3, you want soft power off.00:18
ds3GeneralAntilles: I want it done automatically when I put in my pocket00:18
GeneralAntillesIt'll toggle sleep, lock inputs, and switch to (and out of) offline mode with one long keypress.00:18
ds3I guess I can tolerate that00:19
GeneralAntillesIn fact, this is shorter than putting the hard cover on the 770.00:19
ds3prehaps I can add a working USB OTG stack to the wish list too?00:19
GeneralAntillesHonesty, the stand is a good trade for the hardcover.00:19
GeneralAntillesIt's already there, ds3.00:19
ds3that I will have to try for a few weeks to get a really good answer00:19
ds3GeneralAntilles: then why does flasher still offer the host/device options?00:20
ds3did I miss something?00:20
GeneralAntillesBecause it's old?00:20
GeneralAntillesBecause it might still be useful for some people?00:20
ds3oh so on the 800, I just need a power hub and that's it?00:20
alteregoI guess there's no hci tools in maemo4 :/00:20
p|does the n800 usb otg support usb powered hub ?00:20
glass_does the usb with n800 work nowadays, and with which devices+00:21
alteregop|, what do you mean "support USB powered hub"?00:21
ds3alterego: maybe they hid the HCI tools in the another partition?00:22
alteregoYou can plug it into a powered USB hub. That's how I get host mode to work, with devices that require more than OTG power.00:22
p|alterego, if i want to connect an usb keyboard and an external hd00:22
p|i need an hub00:22
alteregoAh, yes. I use a hub.00:22
alteregoSeems to work fine for me.00:22
p|but i've read that someone have problem with hub00:22
ds3alterego: do you get a serious battery life hit if you use the USB port?00:22
alteregods3, not that I've noticed.00:23
ds3I've had the 770 go from full battery to zilch in about an hour if have used a USB device and not rebooted yet00:23
alteregoThat's unfortunate.00:23
ds3heh, you're telling me... finding a dead N770 in your pocket is not a nice surprise ;)00:24
p|also i've noticed a battery life hit if i leave usb port connected to pc...00:24
ds3p|, 800 or 770?00:24
alteregoCan't say I've noticed that.00:25
ds3I can understand if it is connected (pull ups/downs/etc)00:25
alteregoI barely use the USB PC connection. Only when flashing really.00:25
alteregoWiFi and BT is enough connectivity for me. The USB PC connection is kind of pointless with the exception of flashing it.00:26
alteregoWhich will no longer be required ..00:26
ds3thumbdrives I think are the biggest reason I can think of...maybe occasional CDROM access00:26
p|i use also to exchange files n800<>pc00:26
alteregosshfs ftw.00:27
p|much slow :)00:27
alteregoIt's fine ..00:27
p|6-700k/s ?00:27
alteregoQuicker than my USB 1.1 laptop me things ..00:27
alterego~thinks ..00:27
ds3don't suppose anyone has setup their 770/800 to print?00:28
p|i've read someone have ported cups ?00:28
shackanalterego: I can't find neither hciconfig nor pand, no idea where they ended up00:31
p|shackan, os2008 ?00:31
alteregoPain in the ass ..00:32
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p|shackan, pand doesn't exixts on os200800:33
p|search on itt, there is a workaround for this00:33
shackanp|: heh, I found out, but what was it replaced it?00:33
p|using dbus00:34
p|never tried for now00:34
* lardman|afk is getting bored of debugging by adding yet more dbg() statements00:35
p|is fm radio for os2008 out ?00:36
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lardmanderf: you about for some tremor debugging?00:39
shackanp|: it is00:39
shackanp|: nothing relevant on ITT for 'pand' :(00:39
lardmanDoes anyone happen to know the usual function call progression through the tremor library....?00:41
* lardman is doubtful00:41
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p|shackan, wait, i try to find the thread00:43
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shackanlardman: you already ported tremor to the dsp?00:44
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lardmanshackan: yeah, it's running, but failing00:45
lardmanshackan: fails with OV_ENOTVORBIS, I'm trying to track down what's wrong to cause this00:46
shackanp|: thanks, unfortunately seeing these hacked shell scripts just makes me want to puke, grrrrrrrr00:46
shackanlardman: no idea :\00:47
lardmanany gdb gurus on here?00:47
shackanwhat do you need?00:48
lardmanI'm thinking I'll run the tremor library on arm and step through to see where the two diverge00:49
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shackanwhoa, good luck00:49
lardmanI was wondering if, after setting a breakpoint on a given function, I could obtain a list of the functions that have been called (is that a stack trace?)00:49
shackanthat's some serious spelunking00:49
shackanbt prints the stack trace00:50
kulvelardman: yeah, on the arm side you can get the backtrace (or stack?) like that00:50
lardmanyeah, arm doesn't like stack traces does it iitc00:50
shackanand it's not a list of all the function called until that moment00:50
shackanjust what's in the innermost frame up to the first caller00:50
shackanbut, you can step in the dsp?00:51
shackanthat's cool00:51
lardmanwhat would be good is a graphical debugger like MATLAB or Visual C++ (/me shows his Windows side ;) )00:51
shackanlardman: insight isn't that bad00:51
kulveshackan: I think you need a different tool for debugging the dsp side..00:51
lardmanshackan: no, I'm doing it by adding dbg() calls which send strings to dmesg00:51
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shackanow, sucks00:52
lardmansure does :)00:52
shackando libvorbis and tremor sound any different?00:53
lardmanI understand that xiph are thinking about turning the tremor code into fp and using that as the standard00:54
kulveI would guess that theoretically yes, but to human ear no (just guessing)00:54
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lardmanmine may be related to code speed though more than listening differences00:54
kulveactually I'm not sure if there's a difference even theoretically..00:55
shackanok, I'll take tremor00:55
* lardman has no idea, I don't even listen to ogg00:55
lardmantremor is certainly faster than vorbis even when compiled for vfp00:56
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kulveat least on n800..00:57
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lardmantrue :)00:58
kulvehow about some 64bit amd..?00:58
lardmangive me 10min and I could tell you for dual core 64bit Intel00:58
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lardmanbut am trying to install Insight first00:58
truentnothin better than n800 + blackjack connection = irc'ing in the middle of nowhere01:00
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truentgotta find cheap gps and keyboard01:02
kulvesounds like n810 ;)01:02
truenti already dumped too much on this thing right before the price drop ;p01:05
astro76truent, amazon has the stowaway ultra-slim BT keyboard for $3001:05
truentyep thats what i was lookin at01:06
astro76several people here have them, I highly recommend it01:06
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halleySorry for the inconvenience. garage has a maintenance break.01:25
halleyIt's been a day.01:25
lardmanIs it possible to use gdb on a binary that uses a command like this: ./ivorbisfile_example < sample.ogg > output.pcm01:28
shackanlardman: you could try gdb ./ivorbisfile_example and then at the prompt # run < sample.ogg > output.pcm01:31
lardmanthanks, think I'll just tweak it to read and write from file01:32
vlad_yes, gdb understands i/o redirection with < > and >>01:32
lardmanvlad_: doesn't seem to like it though01:32
vlad_check the help on run?01:32
vlad_you may need some var set01:32
lardmanah, so I do have to set it after starting gdb then?01:32
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lardmanhmm, that seems to work, but gdb refuses to run the file01:34
K`zanMy local thrift store had USB adapters so I stocked up.  Only things really useful, I think, were the cables, double females and the mini-usb :)01:34
lardmanDon't know how to run.  Try "help target".01:34
lardmandoesn't seem to be anything to do with the redirections though01:35
shackanhmm, help target is only usefull for remote debugging01:35
lardmanthis is trying to use gdb in scratchbox though....01:35
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halleyAnyone know why the system seems to be down?01:37
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GeneralAntillesBecause their servers suck?01:38
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lardmanright, time for bed, will have to look into debugging tomorrow when I'm actually awake01:40
lardmanthanks for the help chaps01:40
lardmannight all01:40
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halleyYeah, beyond that.01:42
halleyI was hoping the gjiten guy was working on updating his deb.  :/01:42
halleyI'm pleased with the maemocjk library; scim-anthy is so much nicer than the builtin IM look/feel.01:43
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halleyHow do you get a list of files from a given installed .deb?01:43
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p|'night all!01:49
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JZAanyone here02:26
JZAI want to know how to force install a ncurses-bin02:26
GeneralAntillesbase or bin . . .02:26
GeneralAntillesone of them collides with busybox02:26
GeneralAntillesI don't recall which one02:27
JZAyeah that is the problem02:27
JZAthis is the package:02:27
GeneralAntillesOne of them you don't want.02:27
JZAcheck the output if I want to force install02:27
GeneralAntillesThe one that collides with busybox is evilbad02:27
JZAI see so where can I find the other one02:28
JZAis there an ncurses-base02:28
GeneralAntilles-bin is the evil one02:28
GeneralAntillesget rid of it02:28
JZAI see02:28
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JZAGeneralAntilles: I still get the same error02:30
JZAare you confusing libncurses wiht ncurses02:30
GeneralAntillesncurses-base is the one you want02:30
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JZAyeah I did that02:31
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JZAhow can I search with apt-get02:49
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halleyThe following packages have unmet dependencies:03:19
halley  gjiten: Depends: hildon-fm1 (>= 1.14-1) but it is not going to be installed03:19
halley          Depends: hildon-libs0 (>= 0.14.11-1) but it is not going to be installed03:19
halleyE: Broken packages03:19
* halley twiddles his thumbs.03:19
derfOS 2008?03:25
halleyIt's a 2007 package trying to go onto 2008.03:25
derfI know. I wrote the package.03:25
derfI haven't installed 2008 yet.03:26
halleyHm, I wrote an email to TT, are you he?03:26
derfThat's me.03:26
derfI haven't gotten it yet, unless you sent it a while ago.03:26
JZAis 2008 out yet for N800?03:26
halleyA couple days ago.03:26
halleyJZA, beta.03:26
halleyderf, I hope you can maybe install the 800 sdk on your pc at least.  maemocjk is basically working now, so a dict is my last "must have".03:27
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Rask330Funny little problem here... I have a certificate I'm trying to add to the certificate manager, but it goes into "authorities", even though it's not an authority.03:28
derfUnless you were "special hinshitsu no brand shina no, kakuyasu hanbai shop!" I don't see it.03:30
* Rask330 confused. o.o03:30
derfhalley: I'll try to find time to do it tomorrow.03:31
halleyarigatou gozaimasu!03:31
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Rask330Do any of you guys know where maemo hides the certificates in the filesystem? ^^;03:33
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Vulcanis[20:26:40] <halley> A couple days ago. -- do you know when the official release will be?03:34
halleyderf, I sent you two to - first one calling you Terry, second correcting.03:34
halleyVulcanis, "A couple days ago" was not related to OS2008 on N800.03:35
VulcanisAh, thought it was.  Hehe.  It was followed with 'a beta'.03:35
halleyI have no idea when.03:35
halleyThe beta IS related to N800.03:35
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Vulcanisyes, I had assumed that.  But the top one made me think you were answering him earlier.  I knew the beta was out, but did not know when, I had bought my tablet two days ago.03:37
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derfhalley: Oh, I actually _did_ see that... but I only got the second one.03:44
halleyHeh, so you were left wondering.03:44
derfBut I'm sure something else distracted me and I forgot all about it.03:45
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SignalN800hi guys03:59
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Luriawhat kind of push email support is there for the n800/10?05:17
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fysafew different apps05:27
Luriaright, but im looking for push05:29
Luriaeven imap idle would do05:29
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TheFool2anyone here ever bother to teach the n770 etc your handwriting?05:42
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doublecminefield with the <video> implementation builds under maemo06:48
doublecunfortunately I don't have os2008 on my device yet to test06:48
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foodshi skibur_08:43
skibur_do you have a n800?08:43
foodsyeah I have four of them, they are great08:44
celestehfours of them?08:44
foodsyeah, i'm a true collector08:44
skibur_does that keyboard work for N800?08:44
celestehone in every jacket pocket?08:44
foodsyes it works skibur_08:44
astro76skibur_, yes it's great08:45
astro76skibur_, get it quick before the price goes down08:45
skibur_80% saving?08:45
foodsUS marketing trick :)08:45
astro76yeah they adjust the MSRP often08:45
foodsgiving you the idea of making a fantastic deal08:45
astro76still it's over half off what it was08:45
celestehit's also a lot cheaper than i've seen keyboards like that in the eu08:46
skibur_is that the best keyboard yet?08:46
astro76and fully BT HID keyboard compliant08:46
glass_it's a very nice kb08:47
glass_batts last forever08:47
glass_or at least seem to08:47
astro76skibur_, I'm entirely pleased with it08:47
glass_with 770 it was very pleasant, just open and start typing08:47
skibur_purchasing now08:47
skibur_What about the thinkoutside Stowaway keyboard08:49
astro76the full sized?08:49
skibur_is it the same as the iGo?08:49
astro76yeah igo is thinkoutside now08:50
astro76there's the stowaway and stowaway ultra-slim08:50
astro76stowaway is twice as thick folded, has 3 hinges instead of 1, and doesn't lock in the middle08:50
astro76but has fifth row for number keys08:50
zoran12'' laptop could do the same08:51
skibur_iGo Stowaway Ultra-Slim Bluetooth Keyboard08:51
skibur_is smaller08:51
glass_stowaway sierra has a numbers row tho08:52
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glass_ah you mentioned then08:52
glass_the biggest problem with the kb there was a link some lines ago is the lack of numbers row08:53
glass_takes time to adjust to using terminal with it08:53
astro76you need to use the left Fn key for the numbers08:53
astro76a couple of other keys are in odd positions, but it's mostly standard08:53
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glass_having to press the fn key isn't as bad as having to press "wrong" buttons for the numbers08:54
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glass_and special chars08:54
astro76yeah indeed, the symbols are on the correct numbers too08:54
skibur_overall, the Ultra-Slim is great08:55
astro76and for $30 it's a no-brainer08:55
glass_a real bargain08:56
skibur_will arrive Monday08:56
astro76woohoo :p08:56
glass_i should dig up mine from the closet08:56
glass_for some quake on n9508:56
Luriamuch cheaper these days08:59
Luriamy decision now is what cellphone to get08:59
glass_was 100+ when i got it08:59
Luriayeah, sucks to be us08:59
glass_well it was a number of years ago09:00
glass_2.5y or something09:00
Luriamine was bought in july (though b&m)09:00
astro76I can't figure why amazon is selling it so cheap... but am not complaining09:00
glass_astro76: probably phasing it out09:00
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Luriasigh i love the htc tilt09:00
glass_like said, it isn't exactly a new model09:00
glass_wm phone is a bit of a waste with a maemo device09:01
Luriai know09:01
Luriai know09:01
Luriabut, it is one of the few phones with triband hsdpa09:01
Luriaand i may need push email09:02
glass_it has both usa and europe freqs hsdpa?09:02
Luriayeah it has 2100mhz09:02
glass_ah yeah09:02
glass_how oftern will you 3g roam?09:02
glass_and afford it too...09:02
Luriai dunno, but if i do it would be a business expense09:03
glass_biggest problem with 3g is that roaming is in generally expensive09:03
Luriabut i need a 3.6mb 3g device that does push09:03
Luriaand there are few options outside of wm phones09:03
Luriaif the n800 had a push email client i would use the k850i09:04
Luriawhich is one of the few non smartphones to do 3.6mb triband09:04
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Luriasigh... all i really want is a b/w quad gsm, intl 3g, phone that is 70% battery09:05
Luriaand a push email client for maemo :-)09:06
Luriai would be very happy09:06
glass_don't forget you might want edge and not all phones that do gsm and 3g don't have it09:06
glass_double negative09:06
glass_i blame it on it being so early09:06
Luriadont worry, i grokked09:07
Luriamost do, btw09:07
Luriaesp the tribands because of europe09:07
glass_se at one point had a habit of not doing it09:07
Luriaexcuse me, other way around09:07
Luriabecause of the us, where edge is more coverage than hsdpa09:08
glass_outside of cities it's hard to find 3g here(finland)09:08
glass_edge is pretty much everywhere09:08
glass_in the woods, in island outskirts..09:08
Luriawell, 95% of the rest of my life will be in nyc :-)09:08
glass_i'm on 3g now btw09:08
Luriawhat phone?09:09
glass_tethered to laptop09:09
glass_via bt09:09
glass_almost as good as cheap dsl09:09
Luriai would get a symbian nokia if they put good 3g modems in them09:09
glass_i only got 384kbps enabled on my plan09:10
glass_tops out at 40kbyte/s or so09:10
Luriaup or down?09:10
glass_dunno up09:10
glass_haven't tested really09:10
astro76that's typical upstream in the US09:10
Luriaatt is 384/3.6m09:10
glass_pings are around 120-160ms now09:10
glass_they used to be higher than 200+09:11
Luriano voip then :-)09:11
glass_but they did something for the network las tyear09:11
glass_2mbit/s is highest they offer here09:11
glass_but 384 is like 10 euros/month09:11
glass_3dge pings are 250-350 or so09:12
glass_grhh.. edge09:12
Luriashort list09:12
Luriaand shorter when you do triband hsdpa09:12
glass_yeah nokia doesn't have too many usa freq phones anyways09:13
glass_usa 3g freqs09:13
glass_n95-nam, some other n-series and thats it i think09:13
Luriayeah, ive only seen them at the nokia store09:13
Luria(ie flagship  nyc)09:13
glass_(i'm a symbian freak via hobby-turned-to-work so i don't know that much outside of them)09:14
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Luriai take it that no one knows of a push (or even imap idle) client for maemo?09:15
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glass_imap idle i'd imagine there being09:16
glass_but keeping your n800 powered up 100% of time..09:17
Luriawhy not? the mail client polls on wifi09:17
Luriaenough for 10hours of on time09:17
glass_will the wifi last for 10 hours when on?09:18
Luriayeah, if its just idling09:18
Luria3 hours of hard use will kill it09:18
glass_tinymail supports push?09:19
Ed77hi, Can anybody answer gtk and maemo programming questions here?09:21
Luriaglass_, it does?09:22
glass_Luria: they have demos of it on their webpage at least09:24
Luriayeah i see that09:24
Luriathat would be hot for the stack email to handle it for me09:24
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AnastasiaI see is dead in the water again :-(.09:49
AnastasiaFinished up my USB Power injector tonight, should be able to test some USB stuff now.09:49
vlad_works fine here?09:49
AnastasiaDamnifiknow, it is flakey as hell here.09:49
Anastasiamemcache handler: Failed to connect to localhost:11211.09:50
AnastasiaAbout the 4th try.09:50
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AnastasiaSame thing on main, 2007 and 2008 pages.  It will probably work when I get up in the morning, usually does.09:51
AnastasiaEarly morning or late night has been best for it, now it looks like *maybe* early morning...09:52
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AnastasiaNight folks!10:12
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JaffaMorning, all11:07
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limepiwould it be possible to stream video from os x to an n80011:40
limepiover wifi11:40
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jsnewbyHi all, I have a question regarding gpesyncd which I would appreciate some help with15:26
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GeneralAntillesThe best strategy is to just ask away, jsnewby.15:51
GeneralAntillesIf somebody knows the answer, they will give it to you.15:51
jsnewbyheh thanks15:51
GeneralAntillesIf not, ask again in a few hours.15:51
jsnewbyI'm just got an N800, and want to retire my palm pilot.  I've installed the GPE apps and am trying to write an Apple synchronisation service client to mediate between the two.  When I try to connect to the socket after running gpesyncd -d, I get this error when writing a vcard: Error: syntax error (missing attribute name/group)15:52
jsnewbyI do not get this error when using ssh15:52
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jsnewbyanyone have any magic to suggest?15:54
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TheFool2What has been going on in this channel recently? All I see is people entering and leaving, no conversations.17:42
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halleyEr, Saturday AM?17:43
TheFool2I guess, but the last few days I haven't really seen anyone on17:43
halleyThey're out shopping?17:44
zoranthat means all problems were solved17:44
TheFool2zoran: that must be it!17:44
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TheFool2I have heard a lot of talk about how bad the handwriting recognition is for the tablets, but I finally started playing with it today. It sucks by default, but if you disable all of their preset characters and teach it only yours it actually seems to work quite well17:46
TheFool2The only problem I am having is I want to reteach the punctuation, and I can't figure out how to do that17:46
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halleyHow can I remove the original items from the panels/menus?  I don't want the gizmo,skype,rhapsody icons clogging the menu.17:57
halleyFor those items, the menu organizer disables 'Delete'.17:57
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DM|I was looking on buying the N810, it can do stuff other than music/internet/gps right? you can treat it like a PDA?17:58
glass_anything you can find an app for17:58
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kulveDM|: how do you want to treat your PDA?17:58
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DM|calender syncing, to do lists , calcs, maybe even a LITTLE spreadsheet ?17:59
zerojayI wanna treat my tablet like a whore.17:59
DM|maybe even an IRC app ??17:59
glass_zerojay: pay it to fuck up and then forget it in some sleazy motel?17:59
zerojayYou got it.17:59
kulveDM|: I use it ircing with xterm+ssh. Works very well.18:00
zerojayYou can also use XChat.18:00
kulveDM|: I know there are calendar, todo, spreadsheet, but I don't know too much about those..18:00
DM|.... So it has a terminal ?18:00
kulveDM|: sure18:00
kulvecomes with the 2008 even18:00
zerojay2008 has it included by default.18:00
kulvealthough it's not as good as the other version..18:00
kulveDM|: try google "gpe calendar maemo".. Maybe that tells you more about that..18:01
DM|thanks : P18:01
DM|Oooh it will be interesting to SSH to my server and do shit without having to lug my laptop around18:02
kulveDM|: interesting indeed. I had to debug exim4 issues with the n800's virtual keyboard once. Not very convenient..18:02
DM|N810 has a qwerty though :) and i wouldnt buy a N80018:03
DM|qwerty is the big selling point for me18:03
kulveyeah, the qwerty is probably a lot nicer for typing18:03
zoranpen is not so bad as it looks18:04
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TheFool2kulve: what worries me about the 810 keyboard is that top row18:05
DM|Ive had the pen on my PDAs and smartphone, i hate vkeyboards18:06
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GeneralAntillesPfft, the thumbboard is the shit.18:10
GeneralAntilles40wpm average.18:10
zoranw == word ?18:10
zorannot bad18:11
kulveand how much with the vkb?18:11
GeneralAntillesHaven't bothered to benchmark18:11
zoranah, more18:11
GeneralAntillesProbably 20-ish18:11
kulveso, the thumbone is like twice as fast..18:11
GeneralAntillesI can thumb the vkb pretty well, too.18:11
GeneralAntillesAND I still have 2 SD slots.18:11
zoranfull size kb is better. nokia solution would be to make user smaller.18:12
GeneralAntillesHardware keyboard is a waste.18:12
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GeneralAntillesUnless I can touch-type on it, it's not worth it.18:13
zoranthere is some project of "projecting" kb on the table18:13
GeneralAntillesThat's more garbage.18:14
GeneralAntillesHave you actually used one?18:14
zoranand don't want18:14
GeneralAntillesI have—garbage. :)18:14
kulveGeneralAntilles: maybe you should just buy a laptop and be happy with it..18:14
GeneralAntillesLaptops are expensive and heavy as hell.18:14
GeneralAntillesMy N800 is my best friend.18:14
GeneralAntillesFor the same resolution as my N800?18:15
kulveGeneralAntilles: well, stop using electronics at all. No need to use shit and garbage any more18:15
GeneralAntillesI'm afraid you've misunderstood me, kulve.18:15
GeneralAntillesThe point I'm trying to make, is that the N810's keyboard is wasteful for me.18:15
GeneralAntillesI want storage18:15
zoranmost web sites are not so fien looking at 800x48018:15
GeneralAntillesnot a hardware keyboard that's barely usable.18:15
GeneralAntillesI can type 40wpm on the N800's thumbboard.18:16
GeneralAntillesWhy would I buy a laptop?18:16
zoranwhat kind of storage?18:16
GeneralAntilles2x16GB SDHC kind of storage. ;)18:16
zorannot a dream, as I see it18:16
shackanGeneralAntilles: 40wpm without smearing the screen?18:16
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GeneralAntillesshackan, I'm not an auto-mechanic.18:17
GeneralAntillesMy hands are quite clean.18:17
zoranhdd is not solution as it takes too much power18:17
GeneralAntillesUh, obviously.18:17
zoranyou could wait a year to see it, I think18:17
shackanGeneralAntilles: well, whenever I touch the screen I can see my fingerprints18:17
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zoranlite work for police18:18
zoranmiami, las vegas...18:18
GeneralAntillesYou need one of those, shackan.18:18
GeneralAntillesIt's closer to the surface texture of paper.18:19
GeneralAntillesDoesn't smear like the bare screen.18:19
GeneralAntillesAlso: wash your hands. :P18:19
shackanoh, cool18:20
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GeneralAntillesI also recommend typing with your fingertips/nails rather than the pads of your thumbs18:21
GeneralAntillesa lot cleaner and a lot more effective.18:21
GeneralAntillesand don't let your fingers linger18:21
GeneralAntillesit's not multitouch18:21
GeneralAntillesso having two fingers down at the same time will get you a letter somewhere in the middle.18:21
zoranthis technique could be tricky for standard kb letter18:21
GeneralAntillesIt's basically the opposite of the iPhone keyboard.18:22
GeneralAntillesiPhone likes you to fat finger all the keys18:22
GeneralAntillesThe NITs like you to use small, clean points of contact.18:23
zoransharpen fingers?18:23
GeneralAntillesJust use the tips/nails.18:24
zoranno nails18:24
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GeneralAntillesYou chew them?18:24
zoranalmost, cut them regularly.18:24
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GeneralAntillesI've got about 1mm of nail and it works fine18:25
zoranpersonal techniques are so unique for person invented it18:25
zoranI have no 1 mm of it18:25
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GeneralAntillesThen use the tips.18:25
zoranah, I like pointer on my 77018:26
zoranand ssh for longer message18:26
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zoranand e51 has wifi + voip included, I see now18:27
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GeneralAntilleshalley, just install skype then uninstall it.18:28
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guardiandoes OS2008 support CJK ?18:33
GeneralAntillesNot 100% yet.18:34
GeneralAntillesIt's coming.18:34
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Andy80hi all18:38
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halleyguardian, I installed the maemocjk.garage package on my N810 and it works, but it's definitely alpha status.18:43
halleyguardian, I had to reflash after trying it once, then got it working.  Be careful.18:44
guardiani'm curious about one thing18:45
guardianappart from the input method18:45
guardiando the new CJK fonts replace the default fonts of the device (like the font used in the system menus) ?18:45
guardianor does it just offer CJK fonts i can select as part of a font selection dialogbox, like when using notes application or maemopad ?18:46
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halleyGTK stack in general uses pango for glyph selection.  If you say you want font X, you get font X except where glyphs are missing.18:47
halleyThus the menus, etc. don't all switch and look funny, just because you add a new font to support some characters.18:47
halleyYou CAN choose to use mincho as a font for your text file, but you don't even have to.  It will say "dang, he used a funny character not in the usual Courier, oh, wait, mincho font can draw that one."18:49
halleyThat's one thing that really works very cleanly in GTK in my experience.  You don't get surprises or hassles with the fonts.18:49
guardianso any application outputting CJK unicode characters will get squares being displayed if it sticks with the default font18:50
halleyIf you have NO font for a glyph, it will draw mojibake (the crap boxes).18:50
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halleyIf you have at least one font for a glyph, it will prefer your chosen font but fall back to other fonts automatically.18:51
guardianit would be cool if there was a single font capable of displaying any unicode character :)18:51
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halleyguardian, considering Unicode is built to be table-based, that's unlikely.  Plus, the Chinese might look great but the Arabic or Tengwar (Tolkien Faenorian Elvish) might look bad.18:52
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halleyguerby, fix that.18:53
GeneralAntillesIs there a way to change to a font outside of "Monospace", "Serif", and "Sans" in the OS2008 xterm?18:54
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guardiani'll try to install the ttfs by hand18:57
guardiani don't want to lose HIM18:57
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foodsGeneralAntilles, you have to install the fonts first. Then it's possible.19:18
GeneralAntillesThanks, foods!19:18
foodsYou're welcome GeneralAntilles19:18
foodsAnything else I can be of service with GeneralAntilles?19:18
L0cutusif someone want to try, i've ported synergy to os2008:
pupnikSee if you can get it up to garage, L0cutus19:19
pupnikand thx, i use synergy all the time19:20
foodsGeneralAntilles:Tto add new fonts simply create a /home/user/.fonts directory and put here all the fontts you need, reboot your device and you are done!19:20
Jaffapupnik: not much point having a garage project for every simple port. mud'd be a much better place, IMHO19:20
foodsyes I agree, synergy is the best, I use it all the time too19:20
L0cutuspupnik, i'm totally noob to garage :)19:20
L0cutusnever used it19:21
foodsyou should try it, it's the best19:21
pupnikyes MUD19:21
JaffaL0cutus: <plug> </plug>19:21
L0cutusthanks Jaffa19:21
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foodsdo you guys all love your n800 as much as I do?19:22
guardianL0cutus: i don't have my tablet at hand, does it display a cursor on the device now ?19:22
guardianfoods: no i don't19:24
foodsyou're not saying you don't have an n800, are you?19:24
guardiani have a 770 and a N80019:25
guardianand i find both of them mostly useless in my daily life :)19:25
guardianhowever they are excellent dev and hacking platforms19:25
foodsdude do you have any idea how offensive it is to say things like that?19:25
dragornI find the 810 to be by far the most useful of the three19:25
foodsyes the n810 is much better.19:26
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L0cutusguardian, i've not tried it for now :)19:26
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guardianoffensive ? :) i don't think so19:26
foodsit's blasphemy19:27
Jaffa"The iPhone is a competitor and does somethings better" - that's blasphemy to some (especially on ITT ;-))19:28
pupnikit's vaguely a competitor in the sense that it does fit in a pocket and give some internet browsing capabilities19:28
guardianmaybe it's just because i did not find the time to use it long enough19:28
guardianactually i browsed a little with my ipod touch and i prefer that to the tablet :(19:29
pupnikinteresting, what was good about it?19:29
GeneralAntillesYou're crazy, guardian.19:30
elbthe iphone browser seemed ok to me19:31
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guardianit's not objective i guess, maybe the fact that was enthusiastic  about it19:34
fysascrolling in microb is flawed.19:34
guardianit's smooth19:35
guardianmeebo and youtube worked19:35
fysascrolling in the rss reader is much smoother19:35
guardianthat's more than i experienced in OS200719:35
fysaand the default about:config is so horrible it's no wonder people think it's molasses19:36
GeneralAntillesOn the iPhone, guardian?19:37
GeneralAntillesThe iPhone doesn't have flash.19:37
guardianipod touch19:37
fysathey have their own youtube 'client' i think19:37
guardianwell now that you mention that, youtube is a separate app in fact19:37
fysawhich is the way it shpuld be anyw19:38
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foodsN800 > iPhone19:38
fysathat said, maemo still wins overall.19:38
guardianfoods: fanboyism leads to nowhere19:39
fysajust needs a smoother browsing experience19:39
fysait's powerful but handicapped19:39
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GeneralAntillesIt's worth noting that the "YouTube" on the iPhone isn't actually YouTube.19:40
GeneralAntilles /iPod Touch19:40
GeneralAntillesSame difference19:40
guardianand what's cool about iphone/ipod hacking is opengl es :)19:40
foodsguardian, just because you are an apple fanboy doesn't mean I suffer from the same illness19:40
guardianhaha i'm not19:41
guardianyou were talking about blasphemy19:41
fysait's not mobile youtube.  they just play the flvs in an accelerated player not silly flash19:41
GeneralAntillesfoods is just trolling.19:41
GeneralAntillesIgnore him.19:41
pupnikso is the scrolly/zoomy stuff on i* done with opengl es?19:41
elbyes, being able to recognize flaws in products, regardless of one's overall impression, is a valuable skill which many lack19:41
GeneralAntillesThey aren't flvs, fysa, it's h.26419:41
pupniki'm having trouble seeing how hildon would make use of opengl in any sensible fashion19:41
guardiani just said i find little use of my tablets, but i feel the same about the iphone, that's why i chose the pod since i never owned a mp3 player before19:41
foodsi'm not trolling, i'm gnoming19:41
fysascrolly stuff can be done with a ported firefox extension19:42
fysano gl neded19:42
guardianpupnik: indeed19:42
fysano gl needed19:42
guardianpupnik: but gl is used at a lower level i guess, comparable to what compiz/beryl and such do19:43
guardian*more or less*19:43
truent_anyone know of an easy place to host my project.. its just for n800 to connect to a PAN bluetooth device like an at&t blackjack.. maybe like 20kb at most19:43
pupniknonetheless, for opengl to accelerate any fancy UI zoom/transposition, you'd need to write a new, limited, non-hildon UI for any particular app19:43
pupnikso for e.g. kagu, canola or whatever could use it19:44
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pupnikor you could write a totally non-hildon menu launcher19:44
guardianor games19:44
pupnikand keep the hildon stuff for backwards compatibility19:44
guardianalthough for games there are psp and nds :)19:44
pupnikbut i have trouble seeing nokia go that route19:44
pupnikyes i'd hoped the N810 would be the beginning of games-friendly controls19:44
pupnikwith the keyboard, there are plenty of 'buttons', but i haven't heard good things about the dpad19:45
halleyYeah, the "dpad" actually sucks.19:45
fysathe only way we will see kinetic scrolling/flicking is if someone ports that or non-nokia dev writes something.19:45
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halleytruent_, garage.maemo.org19:46
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pupnikfysa, right - we're starting to see some apps designed around a more thumb-friendly, eye-candy-iphone approach19:46
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pupnikhalley: you have the N810?19:46
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halleypupnik, aye19:46
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fysai would absolutely love page flicking.  hit the screen then move finger swiftly19:46
pupnikdo you think keys awdx could be an alternate dpad?19:47
shackantruent_: maybe garage?19:47
truent_yeah im registering just didnt know if thats the easiest place19:47
L0cutusok, tested, it (synergy) does work ok19:48
halleypupnik, I don't think it'd be an improvement, honestly.19:48
halleyBoth ideas have the same problem: too easy to push the center instead of the direction you want.19:48
pupnikoh the center can be ignored19:48
pupnikgod, i want my N81019:49
halleyThe keys need substantial force, and the best way to apply the force is with a fingernail, not a fingertip.19:49
pupnikah ok19:49
halleyThe problem with the dpad is the thing is too glossy to use a fingernail confidently.19:49
halleyIt's all USABLE but not for games, imho.19:49
pupniki don't have fingernails, somebody keeps chewing them off19:49
L0cutustruent_, is your project for os2008 ?19:49
truent_2007.. havent tested on 2008, but i dont see why it wouldnt work19:50
halleyAnyway, gotta run.19:50
truent_its mostly a wrapper written in ruby19:50
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L0cutustruent_, does it use 'pand' ?19:53
truent_yeah.. why, is that in 2008?19:55
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L0cutuspand doeasn't exist on os200819:57
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truent_lol i guess i'll rewrite an os2008 version20:01
truent_the one i got works great20:01
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truent_does os2008 use session bus ?20:02
L0cutusok, ported also 'less'20:03
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ywwgcan someone help me install libgtkmozembed on chinoook scratchbox?20:05
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truent_L0cutus, thanks for the info, i'll have to revamp to be os2008 compatible20:10
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K`zan - gotta get me one of those :-)!20:14
ywwgI can apt-get the source for libgtkmozembed but it can't find the package itself20:14
ywwgand if I try to build the source... there is no source included!20:14
ywwgand of course no readme on how to build it20:15
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ywwgthere's some sort of moz cvs fetcher script, but there's clearly some sort of undocumented process to build it20:16
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L0cutusthanks to you truent_ :) keep me informed, i'm interested to pan on my n800+htc tytn20:17
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L0cutusmmm i need more info on deb packages...20:36
L0cutusi don't know how to set a dependency, nor how to build a deb library20:38
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LoCusFfortunately its not that hard20:56
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L0cutusL0cutus, can you point me to some 'simple' howto ?20:58
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L0cutusLoCusF, can you point me to some 'simple' howto ?20:59
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L0cutusdoes midnight commander exists for os2008 ?21:14
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derfhalley: Your first mail finally arrived.21:22
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Tu13eswhat does OS2008 offer over 2007?21:57
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Vulcanisit ups the CPU speed to 400mhz, for one thing21:57
Vulcaniswhich means youtube videos are now bearable.21:57
toresbeare they? Neato.21:57
Tu13esdoes that kill battery life?21:58
Vulcanisnot as far as I can tell21:58
VulcanisThe only downside, is it only has about a fourth of the apps ported to it.21:58
Tu13esI bought an iTouch so I haven't used my n800 in a few months21:59
bodhammerHi - still looking for some help getting clisp running.  I have done the following:   Any suggestions on where to go from here?21:59
VulcanisItouch has the same processor speed as the n800 now21:59
toresbeand the n800 doesn't suck :)21:59
Vulcanisand (I believe) the same amount of RAM22:00
Tu13esI never said the n800 sucked22:00
VulcanisI know22:00
Tu13esthe iTouch just did more of what I need22:01
* Vulcanis can't wait until Quetoo is ported to OS200822:01
VulcanisQuake 2 on the faster processor will be fun.22:01
Vulcanisas far as I can tell, it already works, but I cannot run it because of a random error22:01
Vulcanisand the launcher app just hangs and then dies.22:01
Vulcanisand now that I said that22:01
Vulcanisit works.22:01
GeneralAntillesTu13es, no battery life impact.22:03
GeneralAntillesBattery life should actually be better if you useless lightly.22:03
Tu13esGeneralAntilles: cool.22:03
GeneralAntillesAs it's CPU scaling now.22:03
VulcanisOh, guys, question22:04
Vulcanisthe "x days idle", does that count wifi, or no?22:04
GeneralAntillesIt does.22:04
VulcanisLike, turn off & lock, butn ot offline22:04
VulcanisSo if I just turn off and lock it, it'll last the 8days or whatever?22:04
Vulcanisturn off screen*22:04
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GeneralAntillesYeah, or so.22:05
GeneralAntillesYou should really be plugging it in, though.22:05
GeneralAntillesRunning down the battery is bad for it.22:05
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Vulcanisthis is while I'm out and not near my charger.22:05
K`zanGeneralAntilles: Got my USB power injector done last night, just need to pot it and then I can check out various USB drvices!22:05
GeneralAntillesCool stuff.22:06
GeneralAntillesI'm way too lazy to bother with that.22:06
GeneralAntillesI just need to find an OTG cable and be done.22:06
K`zanWill put up a schematic and pix later today.  Real ugly bug setup, but it appears to work (less actually testing it with a device).22:06
Vulcaniswhats a BT kb you guys reccomend?22:06
VulcanisOne thats small/pocketsized when folded22:06
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VulcanisThanks.  That looks good.22:07
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hugolpwhats the default user password?22:07
Vulcanis120$ savings?22:07
K`zangot one coming here :-)22:07
GeneralAntillesBut you either have to have R&D enabled or becomeroot installed.22:08
Vulcanis<3 gainroot22:08
K`zanEverything shipped from all over the country is already here, the stuff from Amazon (in town) is still not here :-/.22:08
VulcanisSo, guys, what apps should I have for OS2008?22:08
hugolpGeneralAntilles:  I have installed becomeroot22:08
GeneralAntillesThen you're set, hugolp!22:08
Vulcanis((I don't even really know the crucial OS2007 apps, I got the tablet three days ago22:08
hugolpand changed the password for the root user22:08
GeneralAntillesJust remember to change the password.22:08
GeneralAntillesFBReader, maemo mapper, and mplayer for starters.22:09
VulcanisMapper really that useful?22:09
GeneralAntillesScummVM is fairly awesome if you have some Scumm stuff about22:09
VulcanisI don't, but I may pirate that.22:09
GeneralAntillesmaemo mapper is fan-fucking-tastic. ;)22:09
VulcanisEven without the GPS thinger?22:09
GeneralAntillesIt's sorta like having Google Earth on the tablet22:10
GeneralAntillesso, yes.22:10
GeneralAntillesBut pick yourself up a bluetooth GPS at your earliest convenience.22:10
GeneralAntillesi-blue is what I recommend.22:10
VulcanisI don't really want the GPS for it22:10
GeneralAntillesXchat is another good one.22:10
Vulcanisxchat is on it... Heh, it was the first thing I got.22:10
hugolpif I do sudo su I get this Sorry, user is not allowed to execute /bin/su as root on Nokia-N800-44-4.22:10
Tu13esI'm debating not selling my n800 and keeping it for a GPS for my car22:10
Vulcanishugolp: do sudo gainroot22:10
hugolpVulcanis:  its the only way?22:11
GeneralAntillesTu13es, N810?22:11
Vulcanispretty much, hugolp.22:11
hugolpVulcanis:  in OS2007 sudo su worked22:11
GeneralAntillesYou have to add yourself to sudoers if you want to use the method you mentioned.22:11
mgedminsudo su is a strange way to spell sudo -s, isn't it?22:11
hugolpGeneralAntilles:  whats the comand for that?22:11
GeneralAntillesmmpc if you have an mpd server, Vulcanis.22:12
GeneralAntillesgoogle it22:12
GeneralAntilles'sudoers maemo' or 'sudoers n800'22:12
GeneralAntillesTu13es, why sell the N800?22:12
GeneralAntillesmusic player daemon, Vulcanis.22:12
GeneralAntillesgpe-sudoku is fun.22:12
VulcanisDo you know if Canola has been ported to '80 yet?22:12
Tu13esGeneralAntilles: I have an iPod Touch that I use now22:12
Species8472N800 > iPod Touch22:12
GeneralAntillesMauku if you have a Jaiku account.22:12
Tu13eseh, not what I need it for22:13
Tu13esbut I'm not here to argue22:13
GeneralAntillesIt works really well as a couch browser, Tu13es.22:13
GeneralAntillesBest ebook reader available.22:13
Vulcanis[15:12:57] <Species8472> N800 > iPod Touch -- Same processor, same ram... SAme storage with 2 8gb cards... Youtube is a tad crappier, though.  Web browser is better.22:13
Vulcanisthat is supporting Species847222:14
Tu13esGeneralAntilles: I know what it can do22:14
GeneralAntillesSpecies8472 is a troll.22:14
Tu13estbh I like the browser on the touch better, but that's just me22:14
Vulcanisdoesn't have flash support.22:14
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bodhammerIs Java running yet on OS2008?22:14
GeneralAntillesConsole only, bodhammer.22:15
VulcanisGeneralAntilles: Do you know if Canola has been brought to OS2008 yeT?22:15
GeneralAntillesBeta on the 12th22:15
Tu13esanyone have mClock installed?22:15
VulcanisHm.  GeneralAntilles: Then can anything else work with Tversity?22:15
GeneralAntillesMedia player should handle it fine.22:15
bodhammerSee post above,  I need some help getting my project going - should I just start one at for clisp/SBCL?22:18
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hugolpbtw becomeroot is a posible thread, anyone can get to my N800 install becomeroot and do what he wants22:19
GeneralAntillesIf somebody has local access to your machine, there's nothing you can do about it.22:20
hugolpI see, canola looks good but its not open source yet, is it?22:22
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VulcanisCanola is nice.22:24
dragornif someone has access to your machine they can just reflash a kernel on it, too.  Set a device pw if you're really paranoid.22:25
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|Rok, seems like the code cannot be changed from EU to US... I'm screwed.22:25
Vulcaniswhich code?22:26
|Rsorry, i meant developer discount program code..22:26
|Ri chose France as i didn't know back then that i could have a contact in the US22:27
|Rbut i don't want an azerty keyboard and only channels 10-13 where in Canada it's 10-11... that would leave me with 10-1122:28
|RUnless the devices are not blocked and it's just the APs ?22:28
Vulcaniscan't help you with that, sorry.22:29
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|Rhehe no problems, I would need to find family in the UK pretty fast :P22:30
GeneralAntilleshugolp, yeah, I'm not sure why they feel the need to close it.22:31
GeneralAntillesIt's Python, even, so they have to WORK to keep it closed.22:31
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hugolpGeneralAntilles:  and they recomend as well a closed upnp server22:34
hugolpguess they dont use open source and thats all22:35
GeneralAntillesThere really aren't many good open ones available.22:35
VulcanisSo, lock & turn off screen counts as 'idle' as the battery, right?22:37
GeneralAntillesThere's a soft power-off mode that's available, too.22:38
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GeneralAntillesBasically lock, but it's single-button activation and you can have it toggle offline mode, too.22:39
GeneralAntillesUnfortunately completely broken with the current OS2008 release22:39
GeneralAntilleswe may or may not see it fixed with the final.22:39
Tu13esI need to reinstall the OS to fix a repo problem - should I install 2008?22:40
VulcanisYeah, I saw softpoweroff was broken22:41
VulcanisWhat does soft poweroff do, if you keep it from doing offline mode?22:42
GeneralAntillesSame as locking, essentially.22:42
GeneralAntillesJust much more convenient.22:42
derfKeep you from having to hit two buttons.22:42
VulcanisSo, I know I asked this before, but I was kinda unsure on the answers.22:43
VulcanisIf I turn off and lock, but do not go into offline mode22:43
VulcanisIs that what is 'idle', or does that still count as in use.22:43
Vulcanisfor what is on the battery meter22:43
GeneralAntillesIt's idle, unless there's some rampant process eating all your cycles.22:44
GeneralAntillesJust setting it down on your desk and leaving it for 4 days is idle.22:44
guerbyhi, I'm unable to find privoxy for OS2008, any idea?22:44
GeneralAntillesIt's in extras, I think.22:44
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VulcanisGeneralAntilles: Yeah, but again, with the "Time left:" thing, is this the idle it is talking about, or is it only if it is offline mode.22:45
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GeneralAntillesThe powersaving on the wifi is very good22:45
guerbyGeneralAntilles, I have extra: deb chinook free non-free22:45
guerbybut app manager does not find it22:45
GeneralAntillesLeaving it connected is just about equivalent to turning it off.22:46
VulcanisOk22:46 guerby.22:46
VulcanisOne more question...22:46
GeneralAntillesSearch for it.22:46
VulcanisHow much more power does the 'autofind after 5 minutes' take up, instead of having autofind networks off22:46
GeneralAntillesWell, if it's connected to a network22:46
guerbyGeneralAntilles, thanks! I did not know this site22:46
GeneralAntillesif you're walking (or driving) around and it's searching for networks, more than none.22:47
VulcanisMmm, thanks.22:47
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VulcanisRight, but would it cause a huge drop in batterylife, or not? (This would be screen locked, still, but I'd like to be connected when I pull it out, if it is possible.22:47
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GeneralAntillesDepends on your use case22:48
GeneralAntillesIf you're driving around doing errands, it's going to have an effect on battery life22:48
GeneralAntillessince it'll be searching (unsuccessfully) for known, usable networks every 5 minutes.22:48
VulcanisMmm, alright.22:49
GeneralAntillesIf you go from home to work and back (and, perhaps, to a friend's) and all places have known, usable wifi, then no, it's not really going to impact battery life.22:49
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Vulcanisthanks again.22:53
derfWell, I mean, once it finds a network it has to work to keep you connected to it.22:53
GeneralAntillesN800's power saving is incredibly good.22:54
GeneralAntillesThere difference in power usage when sitting on a connection idling is pretty trivial as far as daily-use is concerned.22:54
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derfI guess I just spend too much time worrying about devices that can have at most milliwatt power consumptions.22:55
GeneralAntillesSounds like it. ;)22:56
VulcanisSo, other than canola, what players support TVersity?22:56
K`zanderf: I used to, but found my crank charger will charge it anywhere :).22:56
GeneralAntillesIs TVersity UPnP, Vulcanis?22:56
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VulcanisI'll check, I don't think so.22:57
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Vulcanisyes, it appears to be.22:57
devGeneralAntilles: it is22:57
GeneralAntillesThen Media player will handle it just fine.22:58
VulcanisWhere in media player do I find the option to do it?22:58
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GeneralAntillesIt'll be right at the top level of the library.22:58
VulcanisApparently it took restarting to find it22:58
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K`zanIs there something that needs loading to get USB devices detected?23:05
K`zanls /proc23:05
GeneralAntillesIf you don't have the right pin grounded, then you need to force host mode somehow.23:06
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K`zanGeneralAntilles: Power should be right, took the pins off a reguar USB cable which checked against what reference I found.23:07
K`zanJust plugged in a USB->serial converter and see nothing in dmesg...23:07
GeneralAntillesThere's some specific grounding for switching from slave to host23:07
GeneralAntillesEvidently that's not grounded correctly23:07
GeneralAntillesso you gotta force it.23:07
GeneralAntillesThere's probably something on the ITT wiki or the forums.23:07
K`zanBefore I pot it I'd like to figure out what "grounded correctly" means :-).23:08
GeneralAntillesOTG cables are different from regular cables.23:08
jabarowhy is it that if I try gcc -I/usr/include/gtk-2.0 example_camera.c (c example from "How to Use Camera API") it fails? what else?23:08
K`zanWill try the USB ethernet thingie and see if that does anything...23:08
GeneralAntillesI don't have any first-hand experience, so I don't really know.23:08
K`zanOTG, making notes :)23:08
GeneralAntillesI'm just giving you the summary of what I've read.23:09
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GeneralAntillesWhich is a lot. :P23:09
K`zan"OTG" ?!?23:09
GeneralAntillesOn The Go23:09
dragorn800 or 810?23:09
K`zan:-) ahead of me in that department :).23:09
GeneralAntillesAh, this guy will know. :P23:09
K`zann800 w/2008 for n80023:09
dragornThe 800 uses a Mini-B which has to be custom-made to be grounded to mini-a in a mini-b shell, or you have to use /sys to kick it into host mode23:09
dragorn810 uses a micro-ab which can take micro-a for host mode, and /sys didn't work (for me)23:10
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dragornalso as someone else pointed out (and I didn't believe until getting a multimeter), it only puts out 3.3 instead of 5v on USB in host mode so you might need to build a power injection cable, depending on the power draw of your device23:10
K`zanGot the power injector, no 5V to the n800, just signals and ground.23:11
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K`zan5V injected into whatever device is plugged in.23:11
dragornyou have to toggle it into host mode via /sys, I forget the file, find /sys -name mode23:11
dragornit'll be in devices/something_usb/mode (or usb_something mode)23:11
dragornecho 'host' to that file23:11
dragornas far as the grounded pin,it has to be inside the mini-b end, it's the fifth pin there.23:12
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dragorn(and mini-a is a different physical connector, so you can't get a "proper" cable)23:12
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K`zandragorn: Thanks, making notes.  I presume you mean /proc/devices...23:13
dragornno, I think it's in /sys23:13
K`zanls /proc/devices23:13
dragornit's on ITT somewhere23:13
K`zanWIll go search, never have gotten my registration email from them :-(.23:14
K`zanNot lighting up the ethernet dongle :-(.23:15
dragornit won't until you put it in host mode23:15
dragornclient to client has no power23:15
dragornit's /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode23:15
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K`zanGonna have to tear up once of those connectors and get it right :).23:16
dragornit'll also complain to you about the device being unsupported.  it also might not light up on enumeration, and require a host drive23:16
dragorngood luck, they're tiny and sealed23:16
* K`zan wonders if she is wasting her time with this....23:16
dragornI'd just do it w/ sys23:16
K`zanNokia-N800-44-4:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode23:17
dragornyes.  so echo host to it23:17
K`zanOK, trying that now :-).  THanks!23:18
K`zanecho host > /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode23:18
K`zanNokia-N800-44-4:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode23:18
dragorntry disconnecting/reconnecting the device23:19
dragornthe usb stuff isn't exactly stable23:19
K`zandisconnect / echo / replug?23:19
K`zanNot changing...23:20
dragornmight need too much power to enumerate23:20
K`zanGot 800mA on the power jack...23:21
K`zanNot pulling :)23:21
dragornI don't think so, i think the chipset only provides around 200mA23:22
K`zanExternal wall wart supplying ONLY the plugged in device...23:22
K`zanWell, it changed with that one, went back to a_suspend when I echoed host to it.23:23
K`zanWell, it changed with that one, went to a_suspend when I echoed host to it.23:23
dragornIf you're talking about the n800, then no, that doesn't imply it has more than 200mW on the usb port23:23
dragornunless you mean you're powering the usb ethernet card23:23
K`zanI'm powering it, 5V line from the n800 is not connected.23:23
K`zanJust signals and ground to the n800.23:24
K`zanI think I am going to give this up, doesn't look promising with the devices I have(?!)23:24
K`zandoing the echo doesn't seem to take.23:25
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dragornawesome, udev rules work for usb on os200823:28
K`zanSchematic for the injector:
dragorntry something else23:30
dragornlike a keychain flash drive23:30
dragornthat should show up in the file manager if you have usb host working properly23:31
* K`zan scrounges up SD reader and card...23:32
K`zanThat lights up23:33
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K`zanQuite a list in dmesg on it,  lemme see if I can mount /dev/sda23:35
K`zanNokia-N800-44-4:~# mount /dev/sda1 /x23:35
K`zanNokia-N800-44-4:~# ls /x23:35
K`zanTimeLine.txt        gsf-1.odt           vw001.sxw23:35
K`zanTransfusion-w1.odt  howiwri1.pdf23:35
K`zanAppears to work for the SD reader!23:36
ywwgit woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorks!23:36
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K`zanls -l /dev/sda23:37
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K`zanNokia-N800-44-4:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/mode23:38
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K`zanSeems picky about what it will accept though :-).23:38
djtanseyI have a question about maemo, specifically about its browser. Does it have any advanced offline-mode system so that websites can be used interactively between wifi connections and synced up later?23:38
K`zanumount /media/usb/sda123:38
K`zanFinds the serial dongle, but list mode as a_suspend...23:39
K`zan[97781.500000] usb 1-1: device v067b p2303 is not supported23:40
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K`zanBut not the SMC ethernet dongle.23:42
GeneralAntillesNot currently, djtansey.23:42
GeneralAntillesMost websites today that's impossible to do, though.23:42
K`zanOK, that was fun :-), now for brekky.23:42
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djtanseyGeneralAntilles: thank you. good to know. do you happen to know of any emerging standards that would allow that?23:43
GeneralAntillesHa, no.23:43
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GeneralAntillesWith AJAX and that nonsense?23:43
GeneralAntillesBetter off just getting yourself a cellular data connection if you're going to be off wifi a lot. :)23:43
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djtanseyI am planning to do that. Though I don't yet have a device. That happens when I get back from Nigeria.23:44
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djtanseyI ask because I am interested in finding uses of the n800/n810 in the international development context, meaning to function as point of sale systems for micro-finance loans. I was hoping to have it all be web-based. But I guess it will have to be a local app that syncs independently23:45
GeneralAntillesThat would be a lot more feasible.23:46
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Species8472My house is in fire, what should I do?23:47
derfLiveblog it.23:48
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Species8472I'm allergic for blogs23:48
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AnastasiaRandom reboot, I do so love fedora...23:49
djtanseyGeneralAntilles, I suspect so. Thanks for your help. Any suggestions for someone looking for a crash course on Maemo development. I did GTK development for a few years from around 1999-2001, so I have some (obsolete) familiarity.23:49
derfI would think your allergies to extreme heat and air without oxygen would be more pressing problems.23:49
Species8472Hi GeneralAntilles, nice website.23:50
halleyHm, the only port of kanjipad I can find is perhaps built into im-ja.23:50
GeneralAntillesSomebody kick the troll.23:50
Species8472I'm merely complementing you on your website :(23:50
Anastasiausb adapter cable I was using with the ethernet dongle was apparently bad, shows up as "Unable to connect, Device not supported" with the new cable.  Progress!23:50
djtanseyGeneralAntilles, thanks.. was hoping there was something published that I didn't know about. I guess that's where I'll go. Thanks again.23:51
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dragornAnastasia: it'll say that about nearly everything23:51
Anastasiadragorn: But the power injector works :).  I guess I'd need to compile a kernel with the desired modules to get this working.23:51
dragornit'll complain about being unsupported anyhow, afaik23:52
dragornthat's part of the otg whitelist, I'm looking into it for my own stuff23:52
dragornI don't know how easy it is to control23:52
halleyIs it a true usb, or just an "enough usb for the block host" feature?23:52
dragornit's USB-OTG, which is a new standard23:52
halleyOTG?  One True G*d?23:52
Anastasiahalley: I have NO idea, OLD usb stuff from the 266 MHz Gateway laptop :).23:52
dragornon the go23:52
halleyOver The Gizmo?23:53
AnastasiaBoth are supported on the desktop machine though, FWIW.23:53
halleyWhy did usb need "on the go"?  Dual-directionality?23:53
halleyHost and peripheral, that is?23:53
dragornit's a usb dev-to-dev spec, not very common yet.  It's one device to one device, no hubs, limited power, and limited "officially" supported devices23:53
AnastasiaFOOD!  bbl23:53
dragornhence the whitelist, but that should be controllable somewhere23:54
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Species8472Does anyone know what binge are?23:54
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GeneralAntillesReally, they shoulda used Firewire instead. ;)23:56
FatalI'd use smoke signals23:56
Species8472GeneralAntilles, now that is a troll.23:58
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