IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2007-11-08

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p\|	what is the correct way to start a webserver as a user via sudoers ?	00:08
p\|	if i try to start it i receive an error due to log file permission	00:08
\|\|cw	chown the log file	00:11
p\|	thanks, i'll try :)	00:12
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p\|	bed time, cu2morrow	00:12
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keith___	w00t	00:29
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FMZ2	Sorry, apparently all the FMZs are taken	00:29
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alterego	Heh	00:29
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FMZKJ	I saw on the application list for OS2007 that someone got PHP working... and to come here for more info	00:30
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\|\|cw	some one's a little jumpy	00:33
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alterego	I doubt it'd take any effort at all to get PHP working on the device.	00:37
FMZKJ	Oops... if anyone answered my question when I accidentally left, could you re-paste.	00:37
alterego	But what would you do with it? Build websites?	00:37
FMZKJ	Thanks Alter :)	00:37
FMZKJ	alterego: No... I find PHP very handy for small utilities... so I don't have to learn C again. heh	00:38
FMZKJ	i.e. I have a PHP script that pulls down all of my podcasts.	00:38
alterego	Ah, yes.	00:38
alterego	I can see it's use there.	00:38
javamaniac	FMZKJ, use python instead	00:38
alterego	If you don't want to spend time learning Ruby or Python	00:39
FMZKJ	If I had the time to re-learn C, I'd love to. Or learn Python from scratch.	00:39
alterego	Python is so 2005	00:39
alterego	It's all about Ruby-Maemo now.	00:39
FMZKJ	Ruby is so 2007 :P	00:39
FMZKJ	Oh?	00:39
alterego	Ruby is 20XX	00:40
FMZKJ	Is it really the Next Big Thing (tm)?	00:40
alterego	No, that'd be Rails.	00:40
FMZKJ	I thought Ruby = Rails.	00:40
alterego	Ruby is just a great programming language. Though it's shadowed by it's child Rails.	00:40
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alterego	No, Rails is just a web development framework.	00:41
alterego	Written in Ruby	00:41
FMZKJ	Hmmm..	00:41
FMZKJ	I shall have to look into it	00:42
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alterego	Good choice :)	00:43
alterego	But I'm not bias or anything ..	00:43
alterego	It's not like I'm the Ruby-Maemo dev or anything ..	00:43
* alterego looks around the room innocently.		00:44
FMZKJ	Oh...	00:44
GeneralAntilles	Haha	00:44
FMZKJ	I see how you are	00:44
FMZKJ	But for now... the Tested App page says: php-5.2.0.tgz compiled in scratchbox with PCRE, sqlite support. XML gave problems with build.	00:45
FMZKJ	Does that mean I can just download the tarball and try to compile it on the device?	00:45
alterego	Well, compile it in the SDK.	00:46
alterego	Compiling it on the device would be touch.	00:46
alterego	~tough ..	00:46
FMZKJ	Ahh, interesting.	00:46
FMZKJ	I'm just getting to the "experienced" stage in Linux... so, this should be fun. My n800 arrives on Friday.	00:47
alterego	Cool,	00:47
alterego	It's a real nice device.	00:47
alterego	You'll wonder how you ever lived without it.	00:47
FMZKJ	I'm already beginning to think so.	00:48
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	00:48
GeneralAntilles	It's bad.	00:48
alterego	Then you might try mating with it.	00:48
alterego	But I wouldn't recommend that ..	00:48
FMZKJ	I've refreshed the shipping page every 20 minutes since I ordered it.	00:48
GeneralAntilles	It sorta becomes your prosthetic computer.	00:48
FMZKJ	That's kinda what I want it for... an extention of myself :P	00:48
alterego	Yeah, it's taken the place of my laptop for a lot of things when I'm out and about.	00:48
FMZKJ	Almost went for the n810, but... I couldn't justify $250 more bucks just for GPS and a keyboard.	00:49
GeneralAntilles	So not worth it.	00:49
GeneralAntilles	Especially with the lack of real SD	00:50
alterego	Yeah, that is a bit of an annoyance.	00:50
alterego	Considering all the SD's I've got ..	00:50
FMZKJ	alterego: Wanna throw one my way? ;)	00:51
alterego	Hopefully the device program results will be out of the bag soon though.	00:51
* alterego crosses fingers.		00:51
FMZKJ	Device program results?	00:51
GeneralAntilles	alterego is whoring himself to Nokia to get a cheaper N810.	00:51
* FMZKJ bends over in Nokia's general direction		00:51
alterego	Nokia have been nice enough to give 500 N810's for 99 EUR	00:51
alterego	Well, one could say whoring.	00:52
alterego	Or you could say being indirectly paid for my work :)	00:52
FMZKJ	Oh, nice... so, they give you an n810 and ask you to make things work on it.	00:53
alterego	Though, the gratitude and apreciation people have been giving me makes it worth it.	00:53
FMZKJ	What is your biggest contrib to the project so far?	00:53
alterego	ruby-maemo	00:53
_Monkey	ruby-maemo is coming along really nicely.	00:53
alterego	That's pretty much my only contribution so far :D	00:53
FMZKJ	Ahh, nice.	00:54
alterego	I've only been developing maemo for ~3 months	00:54
alterego	Considering _real_ work I think I've made some pretty good progress.	00:54
alterego	I've been using a lot :D	00:54
FMZKJ	What kind of uses does Ruby have on Maemo? (Honest questions, hope I'm not asking too much... heh. Just want to know if it's something I should really get into)	00:54
alterego	Ruby like Python on maemo allows you to build full graphical apps which can intergrate with the operating system.	00:55
alterego	It's basically a nicer way of developing applications for Maemo.	00:55
alterego	Rather than programming in C. Python and Ruby are a lot like PHP. Though they're more flexible and are oriented at general purpose programming.	00:56
FMZKJ	Wow... On the Ruby page it says it's a scripting language... never seen a scripting language allow you to build GUIs (other than process HTML... heh)... but then I never got into Python either.	00:56
\|\|cw	FMZKJ: never seen php-gtk or perl-gtk?	00:56
FMZKJ	I'm beginning to like the idea of this	00:56
FMZKJ	o_O	00:56
alterego	Well, I don't totally agree with Ruby being a "scripting language". I think that term is over used :)	00:56
FMZKJ	php-gtk? Are you kidding me?	00:57
alterego	Nope.	00:57
GeneralAntilles	Or, hell, Pashua for perl + OS X	00:57
FMZKJ	Wow... I do believe a whole new world was just opened up to me.	00:57
\|\|cw	you might be surprized how many gnome utilities are perl-gtk	00:57
FMZKJ	Doesn't Maemo use gtk?	00:57
alterego	Just don't mention it too much or people will start writing php-maemo ..	00:57
* alterego shudders.		00:57
GeneralAntilles	Ha	00:57
FMZKJ	lol	00:57
alterego	FMZKJ, indeed. but with a few tweaks and some extra widgets.	00:57
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FMZKJ	I'm now intrigued.	00:58
alterego	So, out-of-the-box php-gtk wont really cut it.	00:58
\|\|cw	IMO php doens't do so well for long running apps, at least not the typical builds	00:58
FMZKJ	cw... I wrote an IRC bot in PHP once... it ran fine for months with no restart. But then, it's not exactly intensive.	00:58
FMZKJ	Any recommended "Learn Ruby in 24 hours" eBooks?	00:59
alterego	Though, the work to get it to intergrate with hildon in a very minimal way. would require only bindings to HildonProgram and HildonWindow.	00:59
\|\|cw	a lot of modules have memory leaks	00:59
GeneralAntilles	Ruby has some pretty good tutorials online.	00:59
alterego	Yeah, good tutorials and there's a really good book "Programming Ruby"	00:59
alterego	Which you can buy in PDF format ..	00:59
suihkulokki	someon is extending pgp-gtk to php-hildon ? :)	00:59
alterego	suihkulokki, NO NO NO!	00:59
alterego	damnit ..	01:00
\|\|cw	FMZKJ: I did the basic online thing from ruby's site and managed to write a command line dvd-ripper in ruby that uses mplayer/mencoder and lsdvd	01:00
alterego	I've opened pandora's box here.	01:00
FMZKJ	Holy crap	01:00
FMZKJ	alterego: I smell burning...	01:00
suihkulokki	haha	01:00
GeneralAntilles	Haha	01:00
GeneralAntilles	6 months and maemo will be dead.	01:00
FMZKJ	o_O	01:00
GeneralAntilles	A wasteland of broken PHP programs.	01:00
FMZKJ	lmao	01:00
alterego	Heh	01:00
FMZKJ	a la Matrix real world	01:00
\|\|cw	php-gtk isn't very complete anyway	01:01
FMZKJ	It just surprised me was all.	01:01
\|\|cw	and php-gtk2 feels ike abandonware	01:01
alterego	Yeah, I heard it wasn't really that maintained.	01:01
alterego	ruby-gnome2 is absolutely stunning.	01:01
FMZKJ	I think I'm going to seriously have to look into this.	01:01
alterego	It's one of the best ruby extensions I've ever used.	01:01
FMZKJ	Well, I hate to say it guys, but I gotta go. My girlfriend is waiting for me.	01:02
alterego	The Japanese folk that do that project really know what they're doing ..	01:02
\|\|cw	a girl-what?	01:02
alterego	Hah	01:02
FMZKJ	Can I just say, you are the nicest bunch on an IRC channel (to a chan-newb) I've ever met. Kudos.	01:02
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alterego	Do kudos add to my karma?	01:03
alterego	:(	01:03
* alterego thinks not.		01:03
FMZ\|away	alterego: Karma: positive	01:03
\|\|cw	we have karma here?	01:03
FMZ\|away	Laters guys, I'll be back	01:03
alterego	\|\|cw, no. But it would be usefull.	01:03
Pio	anyone know any tricks to speed up gnugo in maemo?	01:03
alterego	Pio, use a lower level	01:03
alterego	:)	01:03
alterego	It's slow even on fast machines ..	01:03
Pio	its still a bit slow iirc	01:04
Pio	yeah i know.. a cpu vs cpu game on my amd64 3200 still takes several minutes heh	01:04
alterego	Your best bet is to use your tablet for what it's meant to do. //The Internet//	01:04
_Monkey	Hmm. No matches for that, alterego.	01:04
alterego	O_o	01:04
Pio	yep.. playing on IGS works nicely with cgoban	01:04
alterego	:)	01:04
GeneralAntilles	Pfft, it's a pocket-computer.	01:04
GeneralAntilles	You should use it for whatever regular computers do. :P	01:04
Pio	at least, what slow computers do heh	01:05
alterego	I was tempted to port my raytracer to it ;)	01:05
GeneralAntilles	. . . in 1998. ;)	01:05
Pio	hehe	01:05
derf	It's actually faster than the computer I had in 1998.	01:05
alterego	Yeah	01:06
alterego	It's faster than a lot of computers people had in 1998	01:06
derf	And 1999.	01:06
alterego	Back when PowerVR was popular.	01:06
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* alterego coughs hint hint hint hint		01:06
r11t	hey everyone	01:07
_Monkey	i heard everyone was a critic :)	01:07
alterego	Heh	01:07
r11t	can anyone recommend the best deal for acquiring a n770?	01:07
GeneralAntilles	Why bother?	01:07
GeneralAntilles	The N800s are dirty cheap these days.	01:07
alterego	Yeah, N800's are pretty cheap now.	01:07
r11t	hmm	01:07
GeneralAntilles	*dirt	01:07
alterego	And they're a _lot_ better.	01:07
GeneralAntilles	N800s are NOT hookers. ;)	01:07
r11t	haha	01:08
Pio	and n770s are umm cheaper than dirt	01:08
GeneralAntilles	770*	01:08
Pio	yeah	01:08
alterego	The 770 will be usefull for one thing.	01:08
r11t	forgive my ignorance but what is the lowest price for a n800?	01:08
GeneralAntilles	$218	01:08
GeneralAntilles	on buy.com	01:08
alterego	And that's _if_ ubuntu mobile ever gets off the ground.	01:08
GeneralAntilles	or it was	01:08
r11t	hmm....	01:08
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alterego	I'm more into emdebian though ^_^	01:09
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* alterego wonders what it is about GUI apps that produce so much spaghetti code.		01:10
alterego	I used to like Gtk.	01:10
alterego	I'm not so sure now.	01:10
alterego	Though, my code is starting to look very pretty now.	01:11
sp3000	N800s?	01:12
_Monkey	N800s are dirty cheap these days.	01:12
GeneralAntilles	Ha	01:12
sp3000	aww, it doesn't store negatives	01:12
sp3000	or, more likely, doesn't overwrite implicitly	01:12
* sp3000 wanted the other one :P		01:12
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alterego	I don't know what widget to use! ARGH!	01:20
alterego	This is infuriating.	01:20
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sp3000	randomize it	01:29
sp3000	then measure which one gets complained about more	01:29
alterego	Hah	01:30
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alterego	I have three options. Gtk::Table, Gtk::TreeView (List), Gtk::VBox of Gtk::HBox's	01:32
alterego	Using the MVC patter of the TreeView kind of breaks my own MVC like patter.	01:32
alterego	~pattern	01:33
alterego	I'm gonna try the table.	01:33
alterego	But having to specify it's dimension on initialization is a pain.	01:33
* alterego sobs		01:33
alterego	VBox of HBox would be okay. If I can create size groups for each column. I could implement my own, grovy, custom widget.	01:34
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alterego	Yeah, I can diggit.	01:38
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lopz	re	02:25
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lopz	re	02:58
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edt	what repository has gstreamer0.10-3gp-osso ?	03:00
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shacka1	anybody managed to profile code with gprof on chinhook ?	03:23
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Tb0n3	http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16855101508R	03:31
Tb0n3	wtf?	03:31
zerojay	heh	03:32
GeneralAntilles	Ha	03:33
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Toma-	Is there a way to see logs from the FileManger in terms of bluetooth transfers? Im getting a "Operation Failed" when trying to move a pic from my 770 to the phone	03:55
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Lateralus	What do you guys use for screenshots on the 810?	03:58
GeneralAntilles	VNC	03:59
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skibur	hello	04:01
b0unc3	Lateralus: mh-shot-tool on n800	04:01
Lateralus	No, 810.	04:03
Lateralus	GeneralAntilles: I'm not finding any vnc server via google for the 810, do you have a link?	04:04
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GeneralAntilles	x11vnc	04:04
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GeneralAntilles	It's for the N800	04:04
GeneralAntilles	No clue if it'll work on the N810	04:04
GeneralAntilles	Though I'd assume it will.	04:04
skibur	you have N810?	04:05
shacka1	anybody managed to profile code with gprof on chinhook ?	04:06
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Lateralus	mh-shot-tool is working on the 810, thanks guys	04:14
skibur	???	04:15
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Lateralus	skibur: yes	04:15
skibur	N800 is underclocked at 330MHZ?	04:15
skibur	nice Lateralus	04:15
skibur	I didn't know the N800 was underclocked	04:16
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, OS2008 is going to be shit-hot.	04:19
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skibur	lol what is the best way to remove a screen protector?	04:53
fysa	credit card	04:54
skibur	wow	04:56
skibur	it worked	04:56
skibur	:)	04:56
skibur	thanks	04:56
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skibur	the screen protector is yah thick and the credit card was able to work it out	04:57
skibur	by the corners	04:57
skibur	thanks again	04:57
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bgm	anyone working on porting gobby?	05:01
bgm	I might give it a try, altough I'm not quite sure to which extent it may work (many dependancies)	05:01
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skibur	just finished applying new screen protector	05:20
skibur	lol	05:20
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skibur	hum? any full functional keyboard for the N800?	05:26
GeneralAntilles	How do you mean?	05:28
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skibur	a keyboard that works completely with N800	05:30
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lord_moonraker	Greetings and Salutations	05:33
skibur	hello	05:34
skibur	:)	05:34
lord_moonraker	hi skibur	05:35
skibur	What can be connected with the Nokia PC Tablet via miniUSB?	05:36
lord_moonraker	mini USB? u need to enable host mode	05:37
lord_moonraker	since miniUSB of tablet doesnt have enough juice, devices that doesnt use power from usb can be connected	05:38
lord_moonraker	what do u want to connect?	05:38
skibur	anything useful	05:39
skibur	keyboard,	05:39
lord_moonraker	hmm like a keyboard?	05:39
lord_moonraker	ya it can be done, with a hack, check this link http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186	05:39
lord_moonraker	u need to do a --enable-usb-host-mode in the device	05:40
skibur	http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/users/30083?page=last	05:40
skibur	found some info	05:41
skibur	o cool, thanks :P	05:41
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Galoot	does anyone know if xsupplicantissupported on the nokia 770 yet? I've spent thebetterpart of the last week rummaging through google,and Ican't seem to find anything	05:44
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lord_moonraker	k	05:49
lord_moonraker	i have created a pygtk app, and created a deb, it seems to work fine when launched from commandline, but from the menu, after some time it just disappears	05:51
lord_moonraker	anyone know how I can see the error message somehow?	05:52
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skibur	what is empty slot next to the battery?	05:54
GeneralAntilles	SD	05:56
skibur	?	05:57
GeneralAntilles	It's another SD card slot.	05:57
skibur	nice	05:58
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Galoot	Does anyone here know if there's a way to get xsupplicant working on a Nokia 770?	06:13
lord_moonraker	Greetings	06:13
skibur	hum...	06:14
skibur	xsupplicant?	06:14
Galoot	yeah. my college's wireless network uses dynampic WEP 802.1x encryption	06:14
Galoot	I've been googling this thing for the better part of the last week, but can't seem to find a solution	06:14
Galoot	I tried using wpa_supplicant, but that didn't work :(	06:15
skibur	I see	06:15
lord_moonraker	http://www.broadbandresource.net/?s=authentication	06:16
Galoot	the official wireless instruction page is here: http://www.slu.edu/x7032.xml	06:17
Galoot	moonraker, that link doesn't work for me	06:17
Galoot	as in, it takes me to a google page	06:18
fysa	is xchat it for irc?	06:18
Galoot	as far as clients go? no, there's a bajillion different ones out there	06:18
skibur	yes	06:19
skibur	xchat is for irc	06:19
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fysa	i mean are there real ui-based alternatives -- it doesn't feel 'quite' perfect	06:22
Galoot	hrm. I wonder if it would be possible to compile open1x for the tablet http://sourceforge.net/projects/open1x/	06:22
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skibur	have you tried Galoot ---> http://www.penguintown.net/~gorlik/n770.html	06:23
Galoot	yeah, that's the wpa_supplicant I tried earlier	06:23
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skibur	no results?	06:24
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fysa	disabling quit/join would be nice. it's very usable with bitlbee and the side (thumb-accessible) tabs are nice.	06:24
skibur	you are root	06:24
Galoot	it'll give me a "connected with link-local ip address" message, with a question mark on the wireless icon	06:24
Galoot	yeah, it won't run otherwise	06:25
Galoot	and I try for a browser, and it doesn't work	06:25
skibur	wpa-supplicant	06:25
_Monkey	wpa-supplicant is not playing nice.	06:25
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Galoot	there is one thing, when I run his instructions as shown, it comes up with a couple errors. one sec, lemme run it again and tell you what they are	06:27
skibur	ok	06:27
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Galoot	ioctl[SIOCSIWPMKA]: No such device	06:30
skibur	hum..	06:30
Galoot	ioctl[SIOCSIWAUTH]: Operation not supported	06:30
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skibur	might need new libs	06:30
Galoot	three instances of ioctl[SIOCSIWENCODEEXT]: Operation not supported	06:31
Galoot	and ioctl[SIOCSIWAUTH]: Operation not supported again	06:31
Galoot	I get that from running the /usr/sbin/wpa_supplicant -iwlan0 -c /etc/wpa_sup.conf -B command as root from the penguintown.net walkthrough	06:32
Galoot	I made sure to edit the config file, and put the certificate in the right place	06:32
Galoot	is there anything special I have to do to compile programs for the tablet? I've just been using downloadable package files so far	06:34
Galoot	if I can get open1x (http://open1x.sourceforge.net/) to work, that may help	06:35
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skibur	hum...	06:36
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skibur	honestly, I really can't think of anything on your issue	06:37
skibur	it should of just worked	06:37
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Galoot	yeah, I know. my campus wireless is really picky though :(	06:38
skibur	How long have you had a N770?	06:38
Galoot	I work for the IT department here and it took me two full weeks to get ubuntu to connect to it	06:38
Galoot	a few months	06:38
skibur	My opinion, get a N800	06:38
Galoot	I just this week figured out how to access a root terminal	06:38
skibur	IT	06:39
skibur	Where at?	06:39
Galoot	saint louis university	06:39
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skibur	IT tech / Work Study Texas A&M University-Kingsville	06:39
skibur	slackware user	06:40
Galoot	sweet	06:40
skibur	So you also have Ticket Qs?	06:40
Galoot	how is slackware? I've heard good things about it	06:40
Galoot	ticket Qs?	06:40
Galoot	as in, IT support ticket requests?	06:40
skibur	Slackware is a "I keeping this S**t simple" distro.	06:41
skibur	its great	06:41
skibur	now with 2.6 kernel, it can now hang even better with the newest distro like Ubuntu	06:41
Galoot	I'm actually a big fan of ubuntu lately, especially with the new release	06:41
skibur	yeah	06:41
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Galoot	are there any other alternative OSes to put on the tablet?	06:42
Galoot	alternative distros, I should say	06:42
skibur	I think Wal-mart will be selling $200 PC with gOS (Ubuntu Based) installed on Black Friday sell	06:42
Galoot	linux is the only way to go ^_^	06:43
skibur	you should take a look at it	06:43
Galoot	sadly, I'm sticking with winblows on my desktop for now	06:43
skibur	:)	06:43
Galoot	I play a ton of games	06:43
skibur	I C	06:43
Galoot	and the support just isn't there yet, especially for older ones	06:43
skibur	Windows is great for games	06:43
lord_moonrake1	Hi galoot, did u get more info on the 802.1x?	06:44
Galoot	but I've got ubuntu on my laptop, had it that way for more than a year now and it still hasn't given me any lip	06:44
skibur	yeah	06:44
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skibur	cool	06:44
Galoot	moonrake: no :(	06:44
Galoot	I looked at the source files for open1x (http://open1x.sourceforge.net/), but I have no idea about how to go about compiling that for the nokia	06:45
lord_moonrake1	K, is this a vpn to join into ur univ?	06:46
Galoot	no, it's a campus-wide wireless network	06:46
Galoot	linux config instructions here:http://www.slu.edu/x7032.xml	06:46
lord_moonrake1	Can a router connect to it?	06:46
Galoot	if that gives any insight as to the setup of the network	06:46
Galoot	I can get connected to it just fine with ubuntu	06:47
Galoot	I can't get the 770 to do it though, because it's a dynamic WEP encryption	06:47
Galoot	I tried the wpa-supplicant instructions at http://www.penguintown.net/~gorlik/n770.html	06:48
Galoot	but those didn't work	06:48
lord_moonrake1	A workaround, Do u have a wifi router? Then u can connect ur machine to router &	06:49
lord_moonrake1	N770 to the router	06:49
lord_moonrake1	And ur pc can act as gateway. >	06:49
Galoot	no, I don't have one, but I do have a couple friends that do, and that works when I'm over at their place	06:50
Galoot	since the wireless is available anywhere on campus though, I'd like to be able to get it to access it	06:50
lord_moonrake1	K. To compile u need to get scratchbox	06:50
Galoot	linux only, I assume?	06:51
Galoot	I'm running windoze on my desktop, but I've got ubuntu on my laptop	06:51
lord_moonrake1	Yes, will work in ubuntu	06:52
Galoot	alrighty. I'll see if I can compile open1x to work with maemo	06:52
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lord_moonrake1	Scratchbox is a lil hard to install...	06:53
GeneralAntilles	The 770 is not an N-series device, therefore, there is no such thing as a "N770". ;)	06:53
Galoot	huh. didn't know that	06:53
Galoot	I'm pretty skilled when it comes to making things work, given the right tools	06:54
Galoot	I just can't find a version of xsupplicant that'll work with the 770 >.<	06:54
lord_moonrake1	http://inz.fi/blog/2007/10/22/multi-target-development-for-maemo/	06:54
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Galoot	hoo boy. this might have to wait till the weekend, it looks pretty involved	06:55
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Galoot	I'm amazed no one has come up with a solution to this yet, I've read about tons of people having the same problem	06:58
lord_moonrake1	http://maemo.org/community/wiki/InstallVPNC	06:58
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Galoot	is that last one to put any concoctions I manage to come up with onto the nokia?	06:59
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* fysa test		07:00
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lord_moonrake1	I am not sure what u meant ,but i think it details on how to login to 802.1x	07:01
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Galoot	that one is about vpn connections from my nokia, doesn't say anything about connecting to 802.1x wireless :-/	07:02
lord_moonrake1	Well i got it from this thread http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1252	07:03
Galoot	I'll have to ask if it's possible to connect to the wifi here with a vpn client	07:03
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Galoot	awesome find on that forum though, it sounds like that's a bunch of people having the same problem	07:04
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lord_moonrake1	As i understand 802.1x is network access control	07:06
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lord_moonrake1	& u need a vpnc like cisco, xsupplicant, open1x to do the auth	07:07
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lord_moonrake1	i am creating an pygtk app. It works fine from the command line, but when launch ed from menu it just disappears	07:14
lord_moonrake1	After some time..	07:14
lord_moonrake1	How can i watch error message s of gui apps?	07:15
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Galoot	is there a way I can access the file system from the file manager?	07:18
lord_moonrake1	U mean /	07:18
Galoot	yeah	07:18
Galoot	not just the documents folder and stuff	07:18
lord_moonrake1	I do it using xterminal	07:18
Galoot	yeah, but vi is damnably hard to use on the tablet	07:19
Galoot	what's the name of the default text editor then?	07:19
Galoot	so I can edit a config file	07:19
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lord_moonrake1	There is a configuration editor	07:21
lord_moonrake1	Gconf	07:21
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Galoot	oooh	07:21
Galoot	not found. is that an extra installation?	07:22
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lord_moonrake1	Let me check	07:22
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lord_moonrake1	Could u google it out? Very hard 2 search in n800 keyboard. >>	07:27
Galoot	yeah, I can have a look	07:27
Galoot	I actually just copied it over to my laptop to play with	07:28
Galoot	it's a .xml anyway	07:28
Galoot	gotta figure out how to change these settings	07:28
Galoot	http://62.61.85.167/platform/docs/howtos/howto_connectivity_guide.html	07:28
Galoot	under WLAN settings	07:28
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Galoot	if I can change some of those values, I may be able to make it work	07:29
lord_moonrake1	K,I am trying to get my app to work from menu, but it just vanishes after a couple of seconds :(	07:30
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skibur	hello	07:33
skibur	is WiMax a Chip?	07:33
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lord_moonrake1	Ya i guess its hardware	07:34
skibur	I was reading the Wiki on N800, and under connectivity, WiMAX will be available 2008? If true, do I have to ve the WiMAX chip since my N800 is not WiMAx enabled?	07:35
skibur	s/ve/buy	07:35
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GeneralAntilles	You have to buy the WIMAX version.	07:37
Rask330	Hi, maemo. ^^; Me again. Is there anything else that the N800 can use for videoconferencing besides "internet call"? For some reason it isn't working with GTalk.	07:37
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Robot101_	skibur: I think it means a new product will be released that includes wimax	07:37
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GeneralAntilles	None of the currently available models have WIMAX	07:37
Robot101	an N810++ or something :)	07:37
lord_moonrake1	Oh can u give the LinK?	07:37
skibur	:(	07:38
\|R	8GB miniSD is too small :(	07:38
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lord_moonrake1	U can use gizmo foor video	07:38
skibur	not even N810?	07:39
GeneralAntilles	To what?	07:39
lord_moonrake1	U need beta version 4.0.306	07:39
GeneralAntilles	[12:37am] <GeneralAntilles> None of the currently available models have WIMAX	07:40
Robot101	Rask330: does google talk have video support?	07:40
GeneralAntilles	from N800 to N800	07:41
Rask330	Robot101: Does it? I thought it had to...	07:41
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Robot101	I think the gtalk clients just do voice	07:41
Rask330	I mean, given that it's built in.	07:41
Rask330	hm.	07:41
Rask330	What N800 protocols support video?	07:41
Robot101	the N800 can do gtalk, and video between N800s (or other Jingle clients, of which I can't think of any)	07:41
Rask330	Hm.	07:42
Rask330	Skype video doesn't work either...	07:42
Robot101	the SIP should be able to do video	07:42
Rask330	SIP?	07:42
\|R	yeah never got jingle working with a linux (PC) client :(	07:42
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Robot101	\|R: which ones did you try?	07:42
Robot101	btw..	07:42
lord_moonrake1	Rask;I have tested gizzmo v4.0.0.82in n800 & 4.0.0.306 in windwos to use Vidoe chat	07:42
\|R	empathy wouldn't start, and uhm, wait let me check :P	07:43
Rask330	lord_moonrake1: What's the windows-side client, though?	07:43
lord_moonrake1	Gizmo 306	07:43
Robot101	\|R: video calling's not quite ready in empathy unfortunately :(	07:43
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Rask330	Mmm... is there any way to get video on Skype on the N800?	07:43
\|R	a gnome one and a kde one also (can't find name, keep searching... ;)	07:43
lord_moonrake1	Rask; skype has launched linux vido	07:44
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lord_moonrake1	Maybe they will come oout for n800 too	07:44
Rask330	Ah.	07:44
Rask330	I guess skype's protocol is closed?	07:44
Robot101	somewhat :D	07:44
\|R	Robot101 : kopete for kde	07:45
* Rask330 hms.		07:45
Rask330	Is Gizmo the only option for video chat on the N800?	07:45
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lord_moonrake1	For now, i believe that is the only opTion to video chat with non n800	07:46
Rask330	Mm.. that's kind of a downer.	07:46
lord_moonrake1	There was a windows gtalk plugin	07:47
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lord_moonrake1	Called festoon	07:47
Robot101	when OS2008 comes out, video calling to various SIP clients should work	07:47
Rask330	I hope Skype gets it together with the N800. It could really make it a much hotter product.	07:48
\|R	Robot101 : through which protocol?	07:48
* Robot101 would rather improve interoperability of the open protocols...		07:48
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* \|R agrees with Robot101		07:49
Robot101	\|R: well... SIP. :)	07:49
\|R	SIP has a video standard? :)	07:49
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\|R	well, RTP i should ask i guess ;)	07:49
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lord_moonrake1	Anyone know how to see messages given out bY apps in maemo?	07:50
Robot101	\|R: right, it just does RTP with video codecs	07:50
lord_moonrake1	I am trying to get my pygtk app to work from menu, but it just vanishes after a couple of seconds	07:50
\|R	Robot101 : is there already a widely deployed hardware base for that? (Like G729, G711 for voice, what would the video codec be?)	07:51
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\|R	ah, gossip is the one i tried on the gnome front...	07:51
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Robot101	\|R: H263 and H263+ are reasonably common video codecs	07:52
\|R	ok :)	07:52
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Robot101	\|R: H263 is what the N800 uses	07:53
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\|R	it's net split galore tonight	07:53
\|R	oh ok :)	07:53
Robot101	it doesn't actually have enough CPU power to do H263 very well	07:53
Robot101	iChat and friends use H264 which is like MPEG4	07:53
\|R	as long as we can mix :)	07:53
\|R	just wondering if i'll be able to have video chat with my gf in mars ... ;)	07:54
lord_moonrake1	It runs fine when launched from command line. Might be a libosso problem :( https://garage.maemo.org/projects/pyaxelwii	07:55
\|R	now we need a shrinked down Wii controller that fits in the stylus :P	07:55
\|R	is the n810 stylus the same?	07:55
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Robot101	no it's not triangular like the N800, more rounded	07:56
* \|R better not loose his stulus...		07:56
Robot101	anyway, its like 6am, time for me to sleep	07:57
\|R	a+ :)	07:57
\|R	erm, cya in english rather ;)	07:57
lord_moonrake1	What is equivalent of Xwindows in maemo?	07:59
Rask330	Hrm... in Gizmo, how do you get it to use video?	08:00
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lord_moonrake1	Do u have v82?	08:01
lord_moonrake1	U just dial, it comes automatically	08:02
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Rask330	V82?	08:02
Rask330	What is V82?	08:02
Rask330	I don't see any options here for video.	08:02
lord_moonrake1	Gizmo v4.0.0.82	08:02
lord_moonrake1	For maemo	08:02
Rask330	..Nope, I have the one I downloaded off the link that came with it. X) Where do you get the later version?	08:03
lord_moonrake1	Latest doesnt have video, they just got this particular version with video	08:03
Rask330	Oh.	08:03
Rask330	Where do you get the version with video?	08:03
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lord_moonrake1	I had googlEd it out, not sure now,http://www.flickr.com/photos/dikstorm/1303912998/	08:06
lord_moonrake1	Some one had put it up on an online file sharing	08:07
R[a]sk	Mm, nevermind... it seems like it's a relatively unstable beta.	08:07
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lord_moonrake1	Ya, well i do use it once in a while..	08:09
R[a]sk	I'm just gonna wait for something stable to come out.	08:10
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lord_moonrake1	:)	08:10
lord_moonrake1	Do u have a wii controller?	08:11
lord_moonrake1	I am creating an app too connect to wii remote & plot the accelaration data	08:14
lord_moonrake1	Any willing beta testers...?	08:16
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Vanya	Hi everyone! Could you help me? I've installed perl with apt-get, but there's no perl in /usr/bin . Whar is the path to perl in maemo?	09:00
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tigert__	morning	09:36
_Monkey	aloha	09:36
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lopz	bye	09:45
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:37
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Gubbe	hello	10:59
_Monkey	hi, Gubbe	10:59
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Gubbe	thought I'd drop by to absorb the atmosphere. I just started working on hacking someone else's maemo-based app and the effort is already making my hair fall off.	11:02
Jaffa	Oh?	11:02
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Gubbe	It's just that I know so little of the platform or linux coding in general. Trying to implement signal handlers for conicconnection seems surprisingly challenging for me. =)	11:05
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Gubbe	Keeping in mind that I first heard of Gobjects, etc yesterday, I'm trying to use g_signal_connect to set the handler. The first parameter it takes is a gpointer to an "instance," but I haven't been able to decipher what that instance is supposed to be. In a #maemo log excerpt I found, someone used ctx.conic as the instance, which seems to refer to some sort of "context" that presumably needs to be initialized beforehand. So far I haven't figured out what i	11:20
murrayc	Gubbe: It's not very easy. You could look at TnyMaemoConicDevice in tinymail for an example.	11:21
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Gubbe	eerily I just found that very .c file via google simultaneously with your response. I'll have to scan through it.	11:22
nomis	Gubbe: an instance is for example any gobject.	11:23
nomis	Gubbe: however it needs to have the signal you're connecting to.	11:23
inz	Gubbe, in this case the instance should be what con_ic_connection_new() returned	11:23
Gubbe	hmm. I have actually tried to use the ConIcConnection* connection, which contains exactly what con_ic_connection_new() returned, but I got an error from that at runtime.	11:24
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Gubbe	let's see what it was again...	11:25
florian	hi all	11:26
AD-N770	bon dia / good morning	11:27
Gubbe	hm hm hmm... allow me to ponder this for a moment, I may have discovered something...	11:27
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Gubbe	It seems that I'm actually using the correct instance and everything, but the code craps out at runtime. This could even be a binary incompatibility issue I'm fighting with.	11:35
Gubbe	Oh well, perhaps having some lunch will help. Thanks for the assistance, everyone!	11:37
Gubbe	--->	11:37
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murrayc	Gubbe: Do try gdb or valgrind.	11:38
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rothiel	Hi	11:45
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bilboed	is there some plans to have a 2008OS for the n770 ?	12:17
rothiel	Hi... I have to code a game for N800	12:22
rothiel	Can I use the GTK button as a sprite ?	12:22
rothiel	or perhaps I need to use an other library ?	12:23
rothiel	(GTK newbie ^^)	12:23
flip^	bilboed: i believe the 770's hacker edition of the OS is going to be updated to bring it in line with OS2008, but they've said that's not the same as releasing OS2008 for the 770	12:26
bilboed	flip^, ok. It's just that the 2008/os is really much faster...	12:27
flip^	that's because of the faster cpu though... they won't be speeding up the cpu on the 770 like they are the 800	12:28
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bilboed	flip^, not only, the actual software is faster and more memory efficient	12:29
flip^	well, yes, that is true... but i dunno if you'd see that much improvement on a 770... but as i say, they do plan to update the HE... but it could take a while	12:30
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rothiel	Nobody to answer me ?	12:45
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mgedmin	rothiel: SDL is the usual choice for games	12:48
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mgedmin	when you want something full-screen, graphics intensive (well, as much as the under-powered Nokias can provide)	12:48
mgedmin	there are downsides, e.g. no virtual keyboard input	12:48
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Gubbe	right then. con_ic_connection_new() gives: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib-GObject - gtype.c:2242: initialization assertion failed, use IA__g_type_init() prior to this function	12:49
Gubbe	followed by: GLIB CRITICAL ** GLib-GObject - g_object_new: assertion `G_TYPE_IS_OBJECT (object_type)' failed	12:49
rothiel	Hi... I have to code a game for N800	12:51
rothiel	Can I use the GTK button as a sprite ?	12:51
rothiel	or perhaps I need to use an other library ?	12:51
rothiel	mgedmin > I don't need virtual keyboard	12:55
rothiel	so I can use SDL	12:55
rothiel	great :)	12:55
rothiel	thx to u	12:56
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rothiel	Hi all :)	13:04
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workingplayya	hi everybody	13:07
workingplayya	are there any ffmpeg packages in the cosmos	13:08
workingplayya	i have buid one in scratchbox but the binaries arent included	13:09
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tigert	what binaries?	13:40
_Monkey	binaries are usually in /usr/bin	13:40
tigert	_Monkey: forget binaries	13:40
_Monkey	tigert: I forgot binaries	13:40
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Toma-	Im trying to figure out why my phone wont accept files from my 770. is there a way to see some output form the filemanager?	13:44
workingplayya	which program?	13:47
workingplayya	try to start it in xterm	13:47
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Toma-	ahh the builtin fm	13:48
Toma-	and it seg faults form the CLI	13:49
Gubbe	Aiiieeee! Epic humiliation! Incredibly enough, running g_type_init() before con_ic_connection_new() worked! Just like the error message instructed. Why I failed to heed that earlier goes beyond my understanding.	13:49
Gubbe	Another three hours well spent.	13:49
Gubbe	Now where's that donkey-hat again...	13:50
murrayc	Gubbe: Well done. I guess most people don't notice that because they are using it in a GTK+ program anyway.	13:52
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Toma-	No other ideas? does ossofilemanager log anywhere?	13:56
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Gubbe	murray: yea, thanks for the help though. I have a feeling that this wasn't the last time I need to pick someone else's brain to make this thing work. =)	14:04
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lardman	Toma-: syslog	14:05
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Toma-	theres nothing in /var/log...	14:07
Toma-	i removed ~/.osso	14:08
Toma-	seemed to work	14:08
Toma-	totally trashed my menus tho	14:08
lardman	you need to install syslogd	14:08
lardman	or at least run it	14:08
Toma-	ahh ok	14:08
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lardman	anyway, it may not provide much output, but there's certainly some stuff in it	14:08
murrayc	Gubbe: And don't forget that libconic does nothing in scratchbox. It only works on the device.	14:09
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Richard	Hi, How to build a SDK from source?	14:17
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Gubbe	murray: Naturally. This is something I'm only testing on the device anyway.	14:24
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workingplayya	Richard: why dont use the rfs from maemo.org?	14:33
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lardman	when are core dumps generated? Any exception (as long as ulimit is set appropriately)?	14:47
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Mikho	does anybody know a good network traffic monitoring tool for linux?	14:48
Mikho	tcpdump seems to do something, but I'd like a graphical one	14:48
lardman	driftnet?	14:48
lardman	;)	14:48
lcdd	Mikho: http://www.wireshark.org/	14:49
Mikho	ah, wireshark	14:50
Mikho	thought it was for windows	14:50
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Mikho	this will do, thanks	14:52
alterego	Heh, my karma is growing daily.	14:53
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alterego	Anyhow .. On a serious note .. Would the maemo wiki be a good place to do documentation for ruby-maemo?	14:53
GeneralAntilles	The maemo wiki doesn't seem to be a good place for anything.	14:54
GeneralAntilles	Hard to navigate	14:54
alterego	Sure, but if the pages are tagged ruby-maemo they're directly added to the garage page.	14:54
GeneralAntilles	Then, sure, add the documentation to the wiki. ;)	14:55
alterego	I'll have to contemplate the benifits/drawbacks I think for a while.	14:55
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Mikho	ok, the next question: does somebody know a good C/C++ framework I could implement http connection with?	15:02
alterego	Server or client?	15:02
alterego	I think libcurl does client side stuff ..	15:02
alterego	And I believe it's a part of maemo.	15:03
Mikho	client	15:04
alterego	Then libcurl is probably the way to go.	15:04
keesj	What are you trying?	15:05
Mikho	ok, libcurl seems appropriate	15:07
Mikho	thanks	15:07
alterego	No problem :)	15:07
Mikho	never had good answers to specific questions this fast :)	15:07
alterego	Well, it's the specific questions that should be answered quickly :)	15:08
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Mikho	let's try again:	15:10
Mikho	in vanilla scratchbox installation, I have maemo installed and target set up. But apt-get does not seem to be able to connect to maemo repositories. What was the file I was supposed to edit to enable internet connection?	15:11
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alterego	I've never had an issue with internet connection in scratchbox.	15:12
alterego	Though, quite a few people seem to have.	15:12
alterego	I bl	15:12
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alterego	I think there's some information about it on the wiki somewhere.	15:13
b0unc3	Mikho: check the resolv.conf	15:13
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Tak	alterego: aha, so you got a garage project set up?	15:13
Mikho	and google, but this seems to be a good day for #maemo :)	15:13
alterego	Tak, yeah. You found it? :)	15:13
keesj	/scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf but with recent sboxes I had not problem	15:14
Mikho	yes! The problem was with resolv.conf :)	15:14
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alterego	Tak, actually. It might not be a "garage" project. It's just a project page in the download section.	15:14
alterego	The maemo project management stuff confuses me.	15:15
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Tak	I saw it poking around ohloh yesterday, but didn't know if it was that	15:17
alterego	I've heard about this ohloh .. Not really any idea what it is though.	15:18
alterego	Would it be advantagous to register and use it?	15:19
* Tak shrugs		15:19
Tak	I don't really have a handle on it either	15:20
alterego	It says I've enlisted in the garage but I've not :/	15:20
Tak	it seems to be some kind of meta-social-networking framework	15:20
alterego	Which could possibly damage my rating as the project will always have zero activity >:(	15:20
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Mikho	ok, let's try it again	15:24
Mikho	In my host environment, when I write sudo apt-get install libcur, and then press tab, it gives me all the possible choices for the packages, but inside scratchbox it does nothing. Currently it's a bit tricky to find out the exact package name every time I want to install something	15:25
alterego	Mikho, apt-cache search 'libcurl'	15:26
alterego	Without the quotes. I don't know why I put those there ..	15:26
Mikho	ok, that works	15:26
Mikho	but how can I enable tab?	15:27
alterego	I don't know.	15:27
alterego	Tab completion is part of Bash	15:27
Mikho	tab is the thing that makes unix worth using	15:27
Veggen	Mikho: mmh, not sure I agree :) there's a whole lot more :)	15:28
Veggen	but it makes much difference when it comes to shell usage.	15:28
keesj	vi makes the world go round	15:28
alterego	vi is for hippies :P	15:29
Veggen	(I'm a vi-user myself :)	15:29
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Mikho	There's probably more, but I really can't imagine using the command shell without previous command scrollbacks and autocompletion	15:31
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thomasvm	i don't know if this is the good place to ask, but i'll try anyway:	15:32
thomasvm	run-standalone.sh python2.5 -c "import gnome"	15:32
fysa	is there anyway to get larger scrollbars?	15:32
thomasvm	fails with "ImportError: No module named gnome"	15:32
thomasvm	though python2.5-gnome is installed	15:32
thomasvm	i'm on chinook beta	15:34
GeneralAntilles	fysa, no.	15:38
fysa	a little small for thumb use	15:39
GeneralAntilles	There's a bug	15:39
GeneralAntilles	but they're pretty much refusing to fix.	15:39
Tak	so is vim for full-blown socialists then?	15:40
alterego	Hippies	15:40
GeneralAntilles	No good dirty damn hippies . . .	15:40
alterego	Real coders use emacs.	15:40
alterego	emacs and knives	15:40
GeneralAntilles	Hooray knives.	15:42
Tak	I don't have enough fingers to use emacs	15:42
sp3000	it's the fastest thing I know that has incremental search	15:42
Tak	probably because of the knives	15:42
alterego	Wow, some one gave ruby-maemo a 5 star rating.	15:42
alterego	That's pretty bold.	15:42
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alterego	I'd give it 3.5/4	15:43
GeneralAntilles	Want me to go offset it with a 1 star rating? :P	15:43
alterego	Any rating is a good rating imo	15:43
alterego	The more feedback the better.	15:43
sp3000	(as with all editor wars, now all the three dozen editors that fit that criterion jump out from the woordworks, plus a hack for the main contender to do that)	15:43
sp3000	and knives	15:43
alterego	Personally I'd rather people give me real feedback. Features/Libraries they want and maybe API changes.	15:44
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sp3000	they're good for the inevitable goat blood sacrifices	15:44
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alterego	Or ViM hippie sacrifices :P	15:45
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alterego	vIm	15:45
sp3000	and defensive programming	15:45
alterego	Hah	15:45
sp3000	not to mention offensive programming	15:45
Tak	btw, what should I do to get the rubygame deb up on ruby-maemo?	15:46
alterego	Good question.	15:46
alterego	How big is the package?	15:46
Tak	65k	15:47
alterego	Heh, email it to me :)	15:47
alterego	tom at rubyx.co.uk	15:47
Tak	oh - what section are you putting all the ruby packages in?	15:47
alterego	I'll just check.	15:47
alterego	It'll be under the 'ext' directory for arch/dist	15:48
Tak	rubygame should probably be in the same section as ruby1.8-sdl	15:48
alterego	Yeah	15:48
Tak	no, I mean the debian-package section	15:48
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alterego	Ah	15:48
alterego	I put them all under the same.	15:48
alterego	Except the dev packages which are under 'devel'	15:49
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Tak	so, user/programming ?	15:49
alterego	Yeah,	15:49
alterego	If the files are to be used in an SDK then stick them under 'devel' if they're extensions for ruby and will be installed on device (or SDK) then stick them in user/programming	15:50
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Tak	do you want all the source package detritus as well? (orig.tgz, diff.gz, ...) ?	15:50
alterego	Neah, just binary packages.	15:51
alterego	I just do: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b	15:51
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Tak	sendified	15:54
alterego	Nice.	15:54
alterego	Hah, nice email address ^_^	15:55
timeless	?	15:55
alterego	taktaktaktaktaktaktaktaktaktak ...	15:56
anothy_x	is there a scratchbox root image with X11 pre-installed?	15:56
alterego	emdebian has those kinds of images anothy_x	15:57
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anothy_x	and the embedian ones will work with the 770/n800? (just building apps, not kernels)	15:59
alterego	Tak, uploaded	15:59
Tak	cool	15:59
Tak	heh, I was annoyed with gmail's 6-character minimum	16:00
alterego	Heh	16:00
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sp3000	did you find their maximum? :)	16:07
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sp3000	64 per 2821, but...	16:10
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Tak	sp3000: it was 30 at the time	16:13
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anothy_x	it looks like emdebian doesn't have pre-built rootfs's, rather tools for building. is that correct?	16:21
alterego	I thought they had a few minimal bootstraps. I maybe wrong.	16:23
czr	alterego, where's the task app? :-)	16:25
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alterego	Under the rug.	16:25
alterego	No, it;s getting there.	16:25
\|\|cw	top	16:25
alterego	I did some serious restructuring of the GUI	16:25
\|\|cw	opps	16:25
czr	alterego, told you you should've thrown it out of the window long ago :-)	16:26
alterego	:)	16:26
czr	it's it wants to be rescued, it will fly back!	16:26
alterego	Well, I quite want this app. Even if other people don't use it :)	16:26
* czr nods		16:26
* \|\|cw sighs		16:26
\|\|cw	i have to reboot a server that has 454 days uptime	16:26
GeneralAntilles	Had to happen some time. :P	16:27
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mgedmin	either it's not running linux, or you're ignoring kernel security updates	16:30
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alterego	Or it's a VPS ;)	16:30
czr	Very Panicky System	16:31
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\|\|cw	mgedmin: it has the latest debian sarge kernel	16:31
\|\|cw	I do apt-get dist-upgrade regularly	16:32
\|\|cw	did have to happen sooner or later as sarge will no longer get updates in april	16:32
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FMZ\|away	Any ideas on a release date for OS2008 yet?	16:38
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alterego	~2 weeks	16:38
FMz	Awesome.	16:38
FMz	Also.... hi.	16:38
Tak	sometime between now and 2009 ;-)	16:38
alterego	Hah	16:38
alterego	Yeah, there may be delays.	16:38
alterego	I remember there were delays back in 2005 with the 770	16:39
alterego	Too much demand and also issues with the software I believe.	16:39
FMz	Today my avoidance of work at my place of employment will take the form of learning Ruby. Every bit of it.	16:39
alterego	FMz, good for you :D	16:39
alterego	If you have any questions I'm here ;)	16:39
FMz	Awesome, thanks bud.	16:39
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czr	more sw for me to throw out of the window, yay :-)	16:40
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L0cutus_	vim = 19mb :-O	16:44
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alterego	Oh, don't tell me you want to install VIm on your device ..	16:45
FMz	What's wrong with Vim?	16:45
alterego	It's okay.	16:45
alterego	What's wrong with vi?	16:46
L0cutus_	i've foun vi is better than vim on n800	16:46
L0cutus_	found*	16:46
L0cutus_	at least with my bt keyboard	16:46
FMz	I've never used it. So I assume Vi comes standard on the 800...	16:46
L0cutus_	yes FMz	16:47
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FMz	Cool	16:47
alterego	Well, it comes standard on all Linux systems	16:47
alterego	I guess all UNIXish systems too.	16:47
FMz	My fellow webdev here at our company always uninstalls Vi and installs Nano. I hate him.	16:47
alterego	I mainly use vi to edit /etc/apt/sources.list so I can then apt-get install emacs-nox	16:47
Mikho	has anyone run into this error message:	16:48
Mikho	configure.ac:78: error: possibly undefined macro: AC_MSG_ERROR	16:48
L0cutus	don't know why with vim arrow key on my bt keyb bombs	16:48
alterego	Eesh, nano isn't very useful :)	16:48
GeneralAntilles	Ha, I can understand installing nano, but why UNinstall vi? :\	16:48
FMz	"Security reasons" he says.	16:49
FMz	I guess not too many people would think of trying nano when Vi/m doesn't work.	16:49
GeneralAntilles	Ha	16:50
GeneralAntilles	What?	16:50
GeneralAntilles	That sounds like incredibly horrible security right tehre.	16:50
FMz	Thus my hate for him ;)	16:50
derf	You've gotta watch out for those user-mode text editors.	16:50
GeneralAntilles	You should get yourself a sockful of oranges and beat him about the head and shoulders.	16:50
GeneralAntilles	That'll teach him. ;)	16:50
czr	GeneralAntilles, yes but what is the sockful of oranges for? snack after the beatup?	16:53
GeneralAntilles	For the beating	16:53
GeneralAntilles	No broken bones.	16:53
* czr sighs		16:53
GeneralAntilles	Sorta like a sockful of batteries	16:53
GeneralAntilles	but cheaper	16:54
GeneralAntilles	and less cruel.	16:54
FMz	A winsock full of Vim sessions.	16:54
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* czr takes the winsock and rises with a trumpet		16:57
czr	always thought the icon in trumpet was cheerful.	16:57
czr	albeit slightly swedish.	16:58
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suihkulokki	czr: http://www.arouse.net/despair-linux/slackware.jpg	16:58
czr	suihkulokki, that's evil :-)	16:59
* czr started with slack		16:59
* suihkulokki too		16:59
czr	damn I forgot how sucky the GUI stuff looked in win3.	16:59
czr	hmm. maybe a win3 theme for n800/n810?	17:00
GeneralAntilles	>_>	17:00
czr	'd be very retro. in a perverse way.	17:00
FMz	lawlfirewall: Your page is blocked due to a security policy that prohibits access to category	17:01
FMz	Adult/Sexually Explicit.	17:01
czr	suihkulokki, the other distros don't fare much better though ;-)	17:01
czr	suihkulokki, esp the gentoo one	17:02
* czr rofls in shame.		17:02
L0cutus	hum, unable to install pimlico packages...	17:03
L0cutus	they require evolution-data-server	17:03
L0cutus	if i try to install with apt-get, it say it's already here :-?	17:04
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L0cutus	seems there are problem with libebook	17:10
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alterego	http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_004.png	17:16
alterego	That's the new GUI :)	17:16
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timeless	fwiw...	17:16
timeless	maemo style says that a button either has text, or it has a picture	17:17
timeless	never boht	17:17
Tak	shiny	17:17
Tak	what about a picture of text?	17:17
timeless	also, you shouldn't use access keys when there's a vkb :)	17:17
alterego	Tell that to stock button thingies.	17:17
timeless	tak: um,	17:17
alterego	timeless, access keys?	17:18
timeless	alterego: yeah um.... maemo clearly wants you to waste lots of time "porting" to hildon	17:18
timeless	+ _Add	17:18
timeless	instead of + Add	17:18
alterego	Oh	17:18
alterego	Like I said. That's Gtk Stock ID	17:18
timeless	there's a "proper" way to detect ...	17:18
alterego	I didn't define the text or icon. I just said Gtk::Stock::ADD	17:18
timeless	sorry, i'm not a gnome developer	17:18
timeless	and i don't know why the ui people didn't ask the desktop people to fix this	17:19
timeless	i think it basically goes like this:	17:19
alterego	I do get your point though and I will remove that.	17:19
timeless	1. ui people design somehting "shiny"	17:19
timeless	2. ui people force desktop people to spend all their time making "shiny" which requires inventing new widgets	17:19
\|\|cw	woulnd' that be don't use access keys UNLESS there's a vkb? if you don't have the kb, you can't use an access key anyway	17:19
alterego	(I had to invent a new widget for my UI too)	17:20
timeless	3. desktop people have no time left to try to adapt gnome widgets to match ui design theory	17:20
timeless	4. ui people didn't bother explicitly explaining theory to desktop people	17:20
alterego	\|\|cw, vkb is the virtual keyboard. Kind of hard without an ALT key ;)	17:20
timeless	5. no tester is truly aware of theory	17:20
\|\|cw	alterego: alt key is in the menu isn't it?	17:20
timeless	6. no one is responsible for testing pored apps	17:20
timeless	menu??	17:21
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timeless	you can't trigger alt w/ vkb or fkb <period>	17:21
timeless	or ctrl for that matter	17:21
timeless	xterm cheats by offering a menu item "send control+" or something	17:21
timeless	and as hacks go, it sucks	17:21
alterego	Sure, but it doesn't make accelerators usable in maemo.	17:21
alterego	They're not.	17:21
timeless	because if you use screen, the display resizes	17:21
timeless	note: w/ itos2008, hildon apps will show accelerators	17:22
timeless	but only when the "Real" keyboard is open	17:22
alterego	Right	17:22
* alterego wonders how to do that.		17:22
timeless	(or maybe if a bluetooth keyboard is active and paired, not sure how tested that is)	17:22
timeless	iirc it's a HALism	17:22
alterego	Though, the 'Add' button in question is activated by hitting enter on the V/KB anyway ..	17:23
timeless	there's public code that should be in gnome upstream for it iirc	17:23
timeless	use the standard browser Arrow button instead	17:23
timeless	the green one	17:23
alterego	For what?	17:23
timeless	instead of add	17:23
alterego	Oh, next?	17:23
timeless	no, the green check like one	17:23
timeless	(the other green one!)	17:24
alterego	;)	17:24
* timeless kicks someone in UI L&F		17:24
alterego	I don't know anyting about UI design.	17:24
timeless	that green thing if placed immediately to the right of the text field..	17:24
alterego	I work on aesthetics and functionality.	17:24
derf	It's actually pretty easy to add shift/alt/ctrl keys to a matchbox keyboard.	17:24
timeless	should at least give users a clue of a tie in w/ browser behavior	17:24
Tak	hmm, garage tracker could really use a preview button	17:24
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derf	I don't use the vkb that ships with the device, but I did so on my maemocjk keyboard.	17:25
timeless	i think it's reasonably safe to assume your users will have met the browser a bit	17:25
alterego	derf, they're still pointless when the button is a couple of CM's away from the keyboard :P	17:25
alterego	Oh, you mean the refresh button?	17:25
FMz	CMs... alterego must be British / Aussie.	17:25
timeless	yeah	17:25
derf	alterego: I don't use it for "keyboard shortcuts", obviously.	17:25
derf	But timeless is right, that xterm hack is truly horrible.	17:25
timeless	note that refresh is echnically the circle one	17:25
alterego	That's the only green arrow I have in my browser ..	17:26
timeless	in newer versions (not sure how old) the browser only shows reload/refresh if you tap and hold	17:26
timeless	the check thing isn't refresh, it's go	17:26
timeless	tap and hold it :)	17:26
timeless	(scary that i remembered it was go)	17:26
alterego	Ah	17:26
alterego	That's odd.	17:26
timeless	sorry for calling it a check instead of "right turn"?	17:26
* timeless clearly has mapped it to a standard green checkmark :)		17:27
alterego	;)	17:27
bedboi	damn DNS resolving does not work in my dusty scratchbox	17:28
* alterego rearranges his UI because of timeless' remarks :P		17:28
alterego	I was happy with my design too :(	17:28
bedboi	i hacked the /scratchbox/etc/nsswitch.conf but nothing changed	17:28
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mgedmin	does /scratchbox/etc/resolv.conf look sane?	17:29
* alterego attempts to hunt down this "GO" button		17:30
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alterego	I don't think it's Gtk stock.	17:31
timeless	qgn_oolb_browser_gobutton.png	17:31
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timeless	icons-default/ 26x26/ qgn_toolb_browser_gobutton.png	17:32
alterego	Yeah	17:32
alterego	Thanks	17:32
* timeless shouldn't try typing		17:32
alterego	:)	17:32
alterego	I was hoping for a stock ID	17:32
lopz	hola	17:32
* alterego creates a new stock id ;)		17:32
timeless	oh!	17:33
timeless	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine-20071025/source/sdk-default-icons-2.0/icons/26x26/	17:33
timeless	it's in sardine!	17:33
timeless	it's also in chinook	17:33
timeless	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook-20071107/source/sdk-default-icons-2.0/icons/26x26/	17:33
alterego	That's great.	17:34
alterego	Though, I don't use either of those !!!	17:34
timeless	fwiw, the way i found the icon was:	17:34
timeless	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine-20071025/find?string=png$	17:34
alterego	That's pretty useful. Thanks :)	17:34
timeless	(i started by using an internal equivalent of the real sources, but that's just a detail)	17:34
timeless	note that the icons are just sdk icons, there's no guarantee that they'll resemble anything else	17:35
timeless	although they are designed to be remotely pretty	17:35
alterego	I think I'll make a note to make all those icons maemo stock icons in ruby-maemo.	17:35
alterego	Should be easy to auto generate the code to do it.	17:36
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alterego	What does qgn stand for by-the-way?	17:36
alterego	* graphics nokia?	17:36
timeless	anyway, please take advantage of the cross references on timeless.justdave.net	17:36
timeless	they're here for you (#maemo)	17:37
timeless	at some point, maybe even this year, that'll start being mxr.maemo.org, we'll see	17:37
alterego	That's really cool. I'll be using it a lot timeless.	17:37
timeless	my officemate doesn't know :)	17:38
alterego	That's really helpful. I need a way of finding out the differences to keep ruby-maemo up-to-date.	17:40
alterego	That's exactly what I need :)	17:40
timeless	the two specific indices here are not going to change	17:41
timeless	hence the -{datestamp}	17:41
timeless	i'll eventually add /chinook and /sardine which will	17:41
timeless	(probably next week)	17:41
alterego	They'll be SVN?	17:42
timeless	oh, no	17:42
alterego	How do you mean change then?	17:42
timeless	these are generated from .deb sources	17:42
alterego	Ah	17:42
timeless	i just run the script again	17:42
alterego	Okay	17:42
alterego	Will you be making a profile for SVN HEAD?	17:42
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FMz	Pardon my newbness... what are chinook and sardine?	17:44
timeless	it's kinda hard	17:44
timeless	the garage tree is against svn head	17:44
alterego	Chinook is the tag name for OS2008	17:44
timeless	if it includes what you need, then you're fine	17:45
timeless	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/find	17:45
alterego	I can't remember what Sardine is ^_^	17:45
FMz	That's what I thought. I assume sardine is OS2007?	17:45
timeless	sardine continuously changes\	17:45
FMz	Ahh...	17:45
GeneralAntilles	sardine is the bleeding edge development release.	17:45
timeless	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/find?string=sardine	17:45
alterego	Cool.	17:45
GeneralAntilles	bora is 2007	17:45
FMz	So... sardine is like the cutting edge	17:45
FMz	Ahh, k :)	17:45
timeless	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/sardine/www/index.html	17:46
alterego	gregale too ..	17:46
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GeneralAntilles	system	17:46
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timeless	hold	17:47
timeless	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/search?find=%2Fbrowser%2Fwww%2Fnews%2F&string=gregale	17:47
L0cutus	what about this: http://intr.overt.org/4.2007.38-mmc-kernel/ ?	17:47
GeneralAntilles	Ignore that, was meant for Quicksilver. :P	17:47
timeless	http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/garage/source/browser/www/news/8/index.html	17:47
timeless	that last hit shows what gregale "seems" to be	17:47
timeless	i.e., it's a release (2.2)	17:47
timeless	brb	17:48
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timeless	ok, qgn_ is legacy, it's an identifier prefix	17:52
timeless	a bit of a short history:	17:52
timeless	osso imported its specifications/style/layout from "s90" (series 90)	17:52
timeless	qgn_ is one of those imports	17:52
alterego	Ah	17:52
timeless	and no one i could find here has any idea what it means :)	17:52
alterego	Heh	17:52
timeless	mind you, the finns leave at 5pm prompt and it's nearly 6pm, so i was lucky to find 2 finns... but stil	17:53
timeless	finding someone who knows is basically a matter of finding someone who worked in s90 not osso	17:53
timeless	(probably)	17:53
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timeless	http://allaboutsymbian.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31140&page=38	17:54
timeless	shows it was used there...	17:54
timeless	so it's clearly a symbian ism :)	17:54
timeless	http://discussion.forum.nokia.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67614	17:54
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Spakman	hello. Anyone know much about ruby-maemo?	17:58
czr	Spakman, ask alterego	17:58
Spakman	specifically, how to trap a full-screen keypress	17:58
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Spakman	thanks czr	17:58
alterego	Spakman, Sure thing	17:58
alterego	Hang on I'll upload an example.	17:58
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greedo__	hello	17:59
greedo__	i installed chinook beta sdk but it seems it lacks a lot of packages	17:59
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greedo__	is there another repository that should be used ?	17:59
Spakman	thanks a lot alterego, appreciate it	17:59
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timeless	greedo: the sdk is an sdk	18:01
timeless	it's not an os	18:01
timeless	(not that "os" is really defined)	18:01
timeless	what do you want?	18:01
timeless	greedo: you can compare http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine-20071025/source/ to http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook-20071107/source/ if you feel like it	18:02
timeless	i have no idea how they differ	18:02
alterego	Spakman, http://maemo.rubyx.co.uk/ruby-maemo/CURRENT/Examples/fullscreen_example.rb.txt	18:05
alterego	Spakman, that's the kind of code I use.	18:05
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Khertan	Hi !	18:05
alterego	Spakman, I'll probably be adding the fullscreen? and fullscreen_toggle methods into a future release of ruby-maemo	18:06
Khertan	Someone have already try to compile tinymail pre release 0.0.4 on scratchbox ?	18:06
alterego	So you wont have to create and override those methods for long and just worry about the key-press-event signal handler.	18:06
Khertan	it s seems that some file are missing for the maemo target	18:06
timeless	khertan: care to be less vague?	18:08
timeless	it's obviosly built by its devs...	18:08
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Spakman	alterego - excellent! Thanks a lot. I'm so glad ruby-maemo is out there :)	18:10
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alterego	Spakman, well I'm glad you're enjoying it :)	18:10
Khertan	timeless > i can compile it for default target	18:11
alterego	What's default target?	18:12
alterego	Are you crosscompiling out of scratchbox?	18:12
Khertan	but for the maemo target i get an tny-maemo-device-priv.h : No such file	18:12
Khertan	i'm compiling in scratchbox	18:12
alterego	Have you installed the required dependencies in both targets?	18:12
zoran	so, you don't have header file?	18:12
timeless	libtinymail-maemo/tny-maemo-device-priv.h	18:12
* timeless tries to figure out where that is		18:13
* alterego takes a guess at libtinymail-dev ..		18:13
alterego	maybe libtinymail-maemo-dev ..	18:13
Khertan	default target is DEMOUI.	18:13
alterego	O_o	18:14
alterego	Right	18:14
Khertan	so in default target some dependancy is unmeet	18:14
alterego	Sure, if you've not installed libtinymail * -dev	18:14
Khertan	libtinymail * -dev ?	18:15
Khertan	it s the prerelease of libtinymail that i try to compile	18:16
timeless	API reference manual per API version: http://tinymail.org/API/	18:16
timeless	Development website and info: http://tinymail.org/trac/tinymail	18:16
timeless	Marketing documentation & contact: http://tinymail.org	18:16
Khertan	:)	18:16
alterego	Heh	18:16
Khertan	maybe i should try from the svn	18:16
alterego	I thought you were building a IO	18:16
alterego	~UI ..	18:16
Khertan	building an UI should be the next things :)	18:17
timeless	ok, got it	18:17
timeless	http://swift/world/source/external/tinymail/trunk/.svn/	18:17
timeless	url="https://svn.tinymail.org/svn/tinymail/trunk"	18:17
timeless	that's what they told me to index	18:17
timeless	so that's what you want :)	18:17
alterego	timeless, http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_004.png	18:18
timeless	yeah, that's better	18:18
timeless	the date thing should probably be replaced by whatever calendar widget maemo uses	18:18
timeless	i can look it up i suppose	18:18
alterego	Yeah, I was thinking about using that calendar button ..	18:18
alterego	Couldn't find the icon in stock icons though ;)	18:19
Spakman	alterego - any chance you can host the .install file in your repos too? The maemo site seems pretty broken whenever I try it.	18:19
alterego	Now I have your link ...	18:19
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alterego	Spakman, there is no install file :)	18:19
timeless	qgn_list_cp_datetime.png ?	18:19
alterego	Spakman, I'll work on making on though.	18:19
timeless	hrm, no, that's control panel	18:19
timeless	qgn_widg_datedit.png ?	18:19
timeless	yeah, that and the _pr variant sound good	18:20
Spakman	ah, OK :)	18:20
Spakman	thanks again, see ya.	18:20
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Khertan	alterego > nice ui for a task manager for a small screen	18:20
timeless	note: i'm using the sardine link (no cheaing :)	18:20
alterego	:)	18:21
timeless	fwow. tje stu;e fpr \|add\| ote,s c;ear;u see,s tp be a _plus_ overlayed on a htingy	18:21
timeless	see qgn_toolb_im_invite.png qgn_widg_mplayer_add.png qgn_toolb_gene_bookmark_add.png	18:21
timeless	ok, that's not readable :(	18:21
alterego	O_O	18:22
Khertan	compil seem to work for libtinymail from the svn :)	18:22
timeless	fwiw, the style for \|addd\| ???? clearly seems to be a _plus_ overlayed on a thingy	18:22
timeless	anyway, that's close enough to English :)	18:22
alterego	You mean the add group?	18:22
timeless	yeah	18:23
alterego	Are you saying you want me to remove all the button background graphics? :)	18:23
timeless	? probably :)	18:23
timeless	qgn_list_sort.png fwiw	18:23
alterego	Even the order orientation?	18:23
timeless	that's the only sort like thing i can find	18:23
timeless	it's probably not necessarily right	18:23
alterego	Yeah bustin' my ballz here :P	18:23
timeless	that depends on what you're trying to do	18:24
timeless	maemo style is a tree widget	18:24
timeless	w/ sortable column indicators in the tree heads	18:24
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timeless	maemo/osso/whatever	18:24
alterego	Sure, that'd work. If priority was a column	18:24
alterego	But priority is indicated by colour.	18:24
* timeless puts on color blinding glasses		18:25
* timeless waves sec508 @alterego		18:25
Khertan	lol	18:25
timeless	https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/describekeywords.cgi#sec508	18:25
alterego	http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_003.png	18:25
alterego	See, colours. :)	18:25
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Khertan	an hidden column ?	18:25
* timeless has no idea what those mean		18:26
alterego	It's not a column at all.	18:26
timeless	in mail apps, you get a column chooser	18:26
timeless	and you could not have that column if you didn't want/need it	18:26
timeless	i have no idea which is more important	18:26
timeless	personally, for done, i'd use <strike> or <em>	18:26
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alterego	Red is high priority, green is low priority	18:26
timeless	well, i'd use <i> not <em>, but css is stupid	18:26
alterego	timeless, yes. That was the plan.	18:27
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timeless	can you have a high priority done task v. low priority done task?	18:27
alterego	I don't get you, what?	18:28
timeless	the red item, when it's done, is it still red, if so, why, if not, do you care?	18:28
timeless	similar for green	18:28
alterego	No,	18:28
alterego	They all grey out.	18:28
alterego	To the same grey.	18:29
timeless	in that case you could replace the check widget with some more magical widget	18:29
GeneralAntilles	Poor colorblind people.	18:29
timeless	that shows a number normally	18:29
timeless	and when simply clicked becomes a check	18:29
timeless	and when click-held, you get a menu to change priority	18:29
timeless	that's not necessarily in maemo style, but it'd solve all the problems i see	18:30
alterego	Ah, so you think I should put the priority in numerical form there. But when the item is crossed out it turns into a fancy tick image?	18:30
alterego	That's a nice idea.	18:30
timeless	:)	18:30
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alterego	Yeah, the context menu displays fancy options.	18:30
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alterego	You can edit the text in place and change all the other details.	18:31
timeless	qgn_list_messaging_high.png qgn_list_messaging_low.png	18:31
timeless	are the two obvious ones i can find in mail	18:31
* timeless is looking for numbers		18:31
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Khertan	*** No rule to make target xml/tree_index.sgml', needed by distdir ....	18:31
timeless	oh, fwiw, qgn_indi_gene_plus.png	18:31
timeless	so it seems they do have a plus :(	18:32
Khertan	grr ... i ll wait until someone make a package ...	18:32
alterego	That's a horrible plus ..	18:34
alterego	That's for the media player I believe.	18:34
timeless	ooh cool	18:34
timeless	yeah, hence hte :(	18:34
timeless	anyway, check this out	18:34
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timeless	javascript:styles='table,tr,td{display:inline}';%20newSS%20=%20document.createElement('link');%20newSS.rel%20=%20'stylesheet';%20newSS.href%20=%20'data:text/css,'%20+%20escape(styles);%20document.documentElement.childNodes[0].appendChild(newSS);%20void%200	18:34
zoran	I'd buy some usb bluetooth dongle; opinions whatto get?	18:34
\|R	zoran : give me 2 sec	18:35
timeless	if you have the sardine 26x26 page open	18:35
timeless	[in firefox]	18:35
timeless	load that url into that window	18:35
timeless	and you should get results that are slightly more easy to scan :)	18:35
workingplayya	anyone here who hast kagu with working remote?	18:36
timeless	javascript:styles='table,tr,td{display:inline}%20font{display:none}';%20newSS%20=%20document.createElement('link');%20newSS.rel%20=%20'stylesheet';%20newSS.href%20=%20'data:text/css,'%20+%20escape(styles);%20document.documentElement.childNodes[0].appendChild(newSS);%20void%200	18:36
timeless	is even better :)	18:36
alterego	How do you mean load it into firefox?	18:38
alterego	Append it on a query string?	18:39
timeless	no, just enter it in the urlbar	18:39
timeless	it's a url	18:39
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timeless	javascript: is a protocol, like http:	18:39
alterego	Weird	18:39
alterego	Had no idea.	18:39
alterego	I don't know how you think that's easier ..	18:40
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workingplayya	new protocol js?	18:40
alterego	I have no pgup or pgdn ..	18:40
Khertan	i must go on ... bye	18:41
workingplayya	i think it just changes things in the style settins of the page	18:41
Khertan	and thanks foor help	18:41
workingplayya	siju	18:41
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timeless	workingplayya: right	18:41
L0cutus	alterego: point me to a good tutorial ruby+gtk(+maemo?) :)	18:41
timeless	it's designed to be loaded in the sardine 26x26 page	18:41
alterego	http://ruby-gnome2.sourceforge.jp	18:41
alterego	There's a good tutorial there.	18:42
alterego	Maemo, just look at my examples on the website.	18:42
workingplayya	but maybe wrong charset	18:42
alterego	L0cutus, ^^^	18:43
L0cutus	http://ruby-gnome2.sourceforge.jp/it/index.html	18:45
L0cutus	thanks :)	18:45
czr	alterego, who is Maemo?	18:45
alterego	It wasn't an address :P	18:46
czr	:-)	18:46
timeless	s/^M/for m/ ?	18:49
timeless	or wrt	18:49
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zoran	opinions on usb bluetooth dongle to buy?	18:56
alterego	csr	18:56
alterego	2.1	18:56
alterego	Flashing blue LED	18:56
alterego	sorted ..	18:56
zoran	in stores in my area I could find gigabyte bt03d and canyon btu4	18:57
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alterego	timeless, http://alterego.freeshell.org/rx_task_004.png	19:00
L0cutus	mmm seems window.border_width API is changed from tutorial ;)	19:00
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rubiks	hello	19:01
_Monkey	niihau, rubiks	19:01
alterego	L0cutus, if you're doing this on the device or in the SDK then there will be differences. The current Gtk version is old in maemo.	19:01
rubiks	anything new on OS2008?	19:01
L0cutus	ops	19:01
alterego	rubiks, when it gets released it'll be the newest IT OS.	19:01
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alterego	Right, I'm gonna get food and have a break. bbiab	19:04
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czr	until the italians come up with a newer version	19:08
L0cutus	czr: hohoho :D	19:10
czr	it's christmas already?	19:10
t_s_o	grumble, wsod, grumble. heh, i should have gone directly to nokia on day one. not do some silly run around with expansys...	19:11
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trunneml_	hi	19:12
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timeless	ok, fwiw, http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/chinook/ and http://timeless.justdave.net/mxr-test/sardine/ now exist	19:17
timeless	i make no guarantees about freshness :)	19:17
timeless	they're currently just pointers to the other two	19:17
trunneml_	someone know where to find the pkg_config file for expat	19:18
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lopz	re	19:30
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timeless	learningsolaris.com/archives/2006/03/10/mdb-tutorial-by-mcdougall-mauro/	19:30
timeless	maybe www.opensolaris.org/os/community/mdb/	19:31
timeless	oops	19:31
shackan	timeless: you nokians are able to use gprof in sb? because I'm not, and it breaks even for a simple hello world	19:32
timeless	i can' remember which ones they use	19:33
timeless	it might be jprof	19:33
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shackan	I would not care and just try the executable on the device itself which is what interests me, if it wasn't that the gprof breakage kills every configure script (ie: you get C compiler is unable to execute etc if you turn profiling on)	19:34
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shackan	timeless: thanks, will try	19:34
shackan	timeless: is it restricted to moz ?	19:36
timeless	maybe i'm confusing tools, i suppose i could check a mailinglist	19:37
shackan	np	19:37
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timeless	oprofile	19:39
timeless	sorry, there are way too many profiling tools w/ similar names :)	19:40
shackan	okay!	19:40
timeless	and i've been around/seen most of them used in /some/ context, which makes my brain mush	19:40
shackan	uh?	19:41
shackan	like what?	19:41
shackan	anyway, if I remember correctly oprofile is linux only and depends on a kernel module, which means it won't work in sb, but anyway, as long as it works on the metal :)	19:42
timeless	cachegrind/quantify/jprof/....	19:42
shackan	ugh, anything else? :D	19:43
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timeless	yes, but i need to finish release notes, not dig through cobwebs	19:43
L0cutus	is possible to start a servce from osso-statusbar-cpu command list ? and if yes, how ?	19:43
L0cutus	i've put a commandline on sudoers	19:43
L0cutus	service*	19:43
L0cutus	i've tryed "/etc/init.d/servicename start"	19:44
L0cutus	but doesn't work	19:44
L0cutus	from osso-xterm it work ok	19:44
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alterego	Wouldn't you need to do 'sudo /etc/init.d/servicename start' ?	19:50
alterego	That's what I do for my enable BT script.	19:50
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\|\|cw	yeah, sudoers isn't magic, you still need to sue the sudo command	19:54
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L0cutus	wow	20:00
L0cutus	it work now :D	20:00
L0cutus	thanks	20:00
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lopz	bye	20:09
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L0cutus	<alterego> That's what I do for my enable BT script.	20:12
L0cutus	can you post here or query ?	20:12
L0cutus	does it enable bt also if disabled from ctrl panel ?	20:12
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lardman	evening	20:20
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lardman	Does maemo-af-desktop include the launcher, etc.?	20:23
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lardman	hmm, maemo-launcher, I should learn to read better	20:23
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Robot101	lardman: yes, but also to avoid the initialisation time, and share data which is initialised once by the libraries	20:36
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lardman	It looks like it's a bit like busybox, depending on what it's called as it starts something else	20:37
lardman	or rather its first argument (I think)	20:38
lardman	I'm just wondering whether there's any error reporting functionality - people always complain that such a such doens't work, it would be nice to tell them why	20:38
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