IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2007-10-21

suihkulokki"teh form you are about to send may be insecurely sent over interweb"00:00
alteregomaybe ?00:00
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* timely_changelog frowns00:03
* czr shrugs00:03
timely_changelogok, anyone here have week 42? :)00:03
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* alterego feels left out of the minutes.00:04
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* alterego starts his own secret club.00:04
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* timely_changelog starts lots of secret clubs00:05
timely_changelogone per person on oaverage00:05
alteregoWell, libosso is almost finished, and chinook ready.00:05
sp3000speaking of which00:05
* czr does the secret wink at alterego and reminds of windows. and things flying through them.00:05
sp3000timely_changelog: I don't really see centring in nofit w/o script or pos:fixed; the former jumps a bit and the latter has overflow issues00:05
alteregolibalarm is also almost ready.00:05
timely_changelogsp3000: hrm00:05
timely_changelogsp3000: do you happen to have 41 or later?00:05
timely_changelogi'm trying to verify thatt we're really really stupid00:06
sp3000I'm still w26 :)00:06
czrhey, you should've just ask me that question00:06
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czrI know the answer to that :-)00:06
timely_changelogczr: i'm pretty sure i do too :)00:06
alteregoGeez, can you guys stop distracting me. :) I've got work to do dagnamit.00:07
czrhmm. me too.00:07
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timely_changelogsp3000: anyway00:08
timely_changelogvisit me monday morning00:08
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sp3000for some value of morning00:08
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timely_changelogsp3000: see moznet/query00:09
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timely_changelogsp3000: you saw the draft for 9/, right?00:12
sp3000yep was still quite changeloggy00:12
* timely_changelog nods00:13
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* timely_changelog moves the art to the top00:13
timely_changeloghttp://swift/~timeless/blog/news/news.html <- art now above fold :)00:14
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pickl1Does anyone have a mirror for the chinook vmware image - gives a 40300:15
timely_changelogit's my computer at work :)00:18
timely_changelogurl is intenionally private :)00:18
timely_changelogthat url is equivalent to
pickl1its linked from forum nokia as the official download00:19
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timely_changelogif it's in svn, you can try
timely_changeloganyway, that has all the svn content for www as of the last time i svn updated00:20
timely_changelogyou can figure out that detail by tacking on /.svn/00:20
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timely_changelogis the root page00:21
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pickl1i'm confused now00:22
czrtimely_changelog, figured that much. just thought that maybe it was a mistake or smt :-)00:22
timely_changelogoh, if you need the vm bit, it looks like00:22
timely_changelogczr: nah, "i don't make mistakes" ;-)00:22
timely_changelog(i do, of course)00:23
timely_changelog... you should try the torrent00:23
czryou call them "features"? :-)00:23
czror just "testing"?00:23
timely_changelogalpha work00:23
pickl1torrent is going at 2kB/s with 3 peers and 0 seeds :(00:24
czrexactly the reason why I build my own vmware images :-)00:24
czrthere's been talk about the images on -devel for some days now00:24
czrplus my images rule. that's the other reason.00:24
timely_changelogwell, i should be able to host a copy on timeless.justdave.net00:25
timely_changelogif someone gives me a url that isn't dead :)00:25
pickl1aye, there's the rub00:25
czrI'd give you mine, but I can't redistribute (the image has nokia "binaries")00:25
pickl1i'd look after them :)00:26
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timely_changeloghi doublec00:26
czrpickl1 :-)00:26
czrpickl1, just write to -devel, maybe "someone" will see that it's really a problem00:26
doublechi timely_changelog00:26
czrand do something about it00:26
pickl1think i'll just throw scratchbox on my other machine and have a play00:26
pickl1might as well do things properly00:27
czror you could install your own vmware image00:27
timely_changelogpickl1: how about
pickl1good point00:27
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pickl1is that not the bora release?00:28
timely_changelogjust use that link :)00:28
timely_changelogthe directory is browsable00:28
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timely_changelogand the files seem readable00:29
timely_changelogyou need to think more like a hacker00:29
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pickl1downloading now, cheers for your help all00:34
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* timely_changelog sighs00:49
timely_changelogsome of these release notes are scary00:49
alteregoWell, it is almost halloween.00:51
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timely_changeloghalloween used to mean DST00:52
timely_changelogor !DST00:52
* timely_changelog never was very clear about that00:52
alteregoThat's funny, I didn't know the pagans had daylight saving time.00:53
alteregoAnother item of the todo list :)00:53
alteregoWould you say having the ability to define the GMain context in calls to OSSO.initialize is important?00:54
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timely_changelogi'd say deleting glib is important00:57
thejapanesegeekAre there settings that are not changed a firmware flash?00:57
timely_changelogit's a POS00:57
timely_changelogthejapanesegeek: the WiFi and BT ideas00:58
infobottimely_changelog meant: thejapanesegeek: the WiFi and BT IDs00:58
thejapanesegeekyou mean the mac addresses?00:58
thejapanesegeekHow about folder structures?00:58
timely_changeloggood bye :)00:59
alteregothejapanesegeek, if they're in the flash it get's completely rewritten.00:59
timely_changelogthe entire file system is replaed00:59
timely_changelogunless it's on a memory card00:59
thejapanesegeekI'm having some trouble getting my Extras folder back.00:59
thejapanesegeekI deleted it, and it won't come back, even after several firmware flashes.01:00
timely_changelogerr, you could create it ..01:00
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timely_changelogbut it'll come back if you add something that wants to live there01:00
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thejapanesegeekno, I can't.01:00
thejapanesegeekIt claims the filename is already in use.01:01
thejapanesegeekI filed the bug:01:01
thejapanesegeekI was hoping that a firmware flash would fix the issue.01:01
thejapanesegeekIt didn't.01:01
thejapanesegeekI can't install any apps now.01:01
alteregoI've deleted that folder loads of times and never had any issues ..01:02
thejapanesegeekI don't understand it.01:02
timely_changelogstrace time..01:02
thejapanesegeekThe firmware flash should refresh everything, right?01:03
timely_changelogdo you restore your backup?01:03
alteregobackup? :P01:03
timely_changelogalterego: backup: a write once - read never medium designed to wrongfully raise hopes01:04
thejapanesegeekcould this have something to do with the fact that I have been installing debs manually as oppesed to via the internet?01:06
timely_changelogwhere's application manager in this picture?01:07
alteregoYou've been using dpkg?01:07
alteregoWell, that would be why then ..01:07
timely_changelogresolved: invalid01:08
thejapanesegeekany ideas?01:08
alteregothejapanesegeek, how are you installing the package? Are you using the application installer? Or are you doing it via the console?01:09
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GeneralAntillesJust not helping some people.01:14
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thejapanesegeeksorry.  cgi-irc is a terrible client.01:16
zerojayThe N810 manual mentions an icon in the status area for bluetooth headsets. :)01:16
thejapanesegeekbut it's the only one that gets through my firewall.01:16
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alteregozerojay, indeed. If you look at the accessories you'll see the nokia one.01:17
jeremybwow, ya'll are big01:17
timely_changelogzerojay: i seem to recall that was in the n80001:17
GeneralAntillesthoughtfix had one working when he did his demo.01:17
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zerojayDid it work well? I guess it would be time to get myself a headset then.01:18
* GeneralAntilles recommends the Plantronics Voyager 51001:18
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zerojayWell, actually I just want bluetooth headphones.01:19
GeneralAntillesAh, not AD2P yet01:19
thejapanesegeekaltergo: in response to your question, I have been using app manager, but I've been using the "install from file" option.01:19
alteregoThere's a manual?01:19
zerojayI thought they were one and the same?01:19
alteregothejapanesegeek, right01:19
zerojayalterego: FCC confidentiality is up.01:19
thejapanesegeekis that the problem?01:20
alteregoNo, it shouldn't be.01:20
thejapanesegeekIs it possibly just bad packages? I've tried two, but neither showed up01:21
timely_changelogalterego: docs for the produc go to bed fairly early01:21
timely_changeloggetting things changed for them is amazingly painful01:21
alteregoYeah, I know.01:21
timely_changelogsince they go to printers01:21
alteregoI've just not seen it.01:21
timely_changelogi've rtied, i generally fail01:21
alteregoHmm, the N810 takes a different battery to the N80001:22
timely_changelogi have it on my devices and internal xrefs, presumably anyone who got a device for press got one01:22
timely_changelogalterego: it takes a battery compatible w/ the e61i01:22
timely_changelogwhich is nice, since that's the phone i have :)01:22
jeremybhehe, timely01:22
timely_changelogand if you think people don't pick phones based on devices...01:22
timely_changelogwhen they started working on the 770 they didn't have chargers for them01:22
timely_changelogso they provided people 9500s to use for charging the batteries01:23
zerojayYeah, I have to do that sometimes at work too.01:23
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zerojayPop the battery into another phone and charge it that way.01:23
* timely_changelog nods01:23
timely_changelogi took my 770 + 3 n800s on my vacation01:23
timely_changelog+ chargers for each01:23
alteregoMy phone is a POS01:24
timely_changelog+ 2 extra batteries01:24
timely_changelogmostly just o charge the bateries for 2 n800s01:24
alteregoBut I'm too tight to buy a new one :)01:24
timely_changelogi only had 1 device to charge my 3 batteries for my e61i whichi made it a problem when i ran through my batteries :(01:24
timely_changelognext time i travel, i'll just take spare n810s :)01:25
alteregoDo you buy them all?01:25
alteregoSeems a little extravagant :P01:25
timely_changelogso far nokia has given me a 770, a 9300i, an n800, an e61i and has promised an n81-8g and an n81001:26
zerojayI'm sure they toss N95's around like newspapers.01:26
timely_changelogthe n800s i travelled w/ were requisitioned01:26
timely_changeloghe n81s are being tossed around like newspapers01:26
* alterego is jealous01:27
alteregoI've not had a decent phone since my 7650 :)01:27
alteregoI've just been buying crappy disposable ones.01:27
zerojayDude, are you serious?01:27
zerojay7650 is horrible.01:27
alteregoIt's in pieces unfortunately.01:27
zerojayIts JVM has a massive memory leak whenever GetResourceAsStream is used.01:27
alteregoI did a bit of work for Symbian.01:27
alteregoHey, at the time that phone was the coolest thing out there :P01:28
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zerojayI was stuck testing it's brother, the 3650 (same problem) for almost a month straight.01:28
zerojayHad to reboot it every 15 minutes. :/01:28
alteregoRight now I'm using my sisters old phone. Some crappy sony ericcson.01:29
alteregoThe VGA camera lens has come off.01:29
zerojayGameloft came to us and told us to just give up... there's no way to work around it.01:29
alteregoAs well as a small plastic panel at the top.01:29
alteregoIt's also got some very suspect signal connection habits and charging is a bit awkward too.01:30
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zerojayMost of the SE's are decent.01:30
alteregoThis is very old.01:31
alteregoOld and cheap by the looks of it.01:31
zerojayStay away from the Samsung A650 unless you enjoy getting a static shock every time you touch it while it's charging.01:31
db48xoohh, that sounds fun01:31
alteregoTo be honest, I really don't like phones.01:32
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alteregoI only have one because I _need_ it ..01:32
db48xneither do I01:32
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zerojayI hate phones.01:32
db48xI want a real wearable computer01:32
zerojayI hated them before, I hate them now after working with them for two years straight.01:32
zerojaydb48x: Yeah, same here.01:32
alteregoIt's like, (ring ring) oh, it's my phone.01:32
* alterego gets the urge to hurl it off the nearest bridge.01:33
zerojayHeh... some of the testers have found some of the funniest ringtones.01:33
zerojaySome of those on the Disco Phone (Nokia 3220) are hilariously funny.01:33
alteregoIf they didn't ring I think I'd like them more :)01:33
alteregoSo, what's with libalarm?01:34
alteregoWhere are the headers for all the gobjects?01:34
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alteregoThis is silly, how can you have API documentation for something that doesn't even exist?!01:36
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zerojayImagination is a wonderful thing.01:38
GeneralAntillesWasn't libalarm removed in one of the recent updates?01:38
alteregoWhy is it in Chinook then?01:38
alteregoThere's some of libalarm01:39
alteregoJust not the glib objects.01:39
GeneralAntillesWhere's that big list of package changes from Bora to Chinook?01:39
alteregoWhich is annoying, because I like binding glib objectx >:(01:39
alteregoI suppose I should be happy really, one less thing to do ..01:40
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alteregoNo libcrt either?01:41
GeneralAntillesWould Cairo have anything to do with the PowerVR driver predictions?01:42
alteregoGeneralAntilles, not really.01:42
alteregoCairo is because of Gtk 2.1001:42
alterego>2.8 requires Cairo01:42
* alterego contemplates something for a few minutes.01:43
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Jitenany ideas on how to track what is creating this extra window my program seems to be creating?01:49
Jitenit likely has something to do with this that I modified a bit so it actually works.01:50
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Jitenyes, changing the program to use instead of hildonglade.XML makes it work. I guess does imperfect job destroying the gtk.window that glade creates01:52
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|tbb|anyone knows if the wlan adapter of the n810 is the same chip as on the n80002:00
timely_changelogpresumably the fcc filings?02:00
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_Logic_greetings. Any n800 devs alive here?02:08
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alteregoI develop on the n80002:11
_Logic_I failed miserably configuring my FC7 system. As far as I could tell, using an AMD64 (even with a 32 bit install) doesn't work with scratchbox.02:11
alteregoInstall debian02:12
zerojay_Logic_: Crap, don't say that. I'm in the middle of doing a 32-bit chroot for it. ;/02:12
_Logic_Will that work with a 64-bit architecture?02:12
alteregozerojay, you're not using FC :P02:12
alteregoSomeone should really do a good tutorial on this ..02:13
_Logic_I tried getting Ubuntu and Kubunti (32 bit and 64 bit) installed. It hangs in what appears to be partition detection02:13
alterego64 bit machines are common place now ..02:13
_Logic_What I would *love* is an install CD with everything needed for the dev platform02:13
_Logic_I'll buy a 32 bit system if I can hit the ground running :)02:13
zerojayI'm installing scratchbox on my Gentoo 64-bit box. Hoping it'll go well.02:13
alteregoI think there is a Live CD floating around.02:13
alteregoIf not there's always the VMWare image.02:13
alteregoWhich you can use with VMWare player.02:14
alteregoMeh, gentoo.02:14
alteregoOnly weirdos use that dist :P02:14
zerojayControl freaks. ;)02:14
_Logic_arg. need to go make some dinner for the kiddos. bbl02:14
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alteregoI'm more of a perfectionist than a control freak.02:15
alteregoI guess that's why I use Debian :P02:15
zerojayThat would be one reason I'd stay away from Debian.02:15
zerojayI can't stand it.02:15
alteregoDebian is _the_ best Linux OS.02:15
alteregoGentoo isn't even in the top 1002:15
alteregoWell, top 502:15
celestehholy war alaert!02:16
zerojayDebian's horrible. Dependancies are complete hell.02:16
infobotcelesteh meant: holy war alert!02:16
alteregoI can't believe you're saying that when you use the most broken package management system invented for Linux :P02:16
derfYou make being a weirdo sound bad.02:16
* celesteh ets out holy relics and religious symbols02:16
zerojayI got so tired of hunting down .deb B and .deb C compiled properly so that .deb A would work without bloat all over the place.02:16
celestehdebian has better tools for music than many otehr distros02:17
alteregoYou see, that's your control freak side.02:17
celestehunless i'm thinking of fedora02:17
pupnikfunny, i have no problems with sidux (debian sid)02:17
alteregoI can't say I've ever had any problems with debian.02:17
zerojayI generally just want stuff to work.. without hunting for stuff constantly or using some really really old packages.02:17
alteregoThis just work and they work in tune with how I think.02:17
pupnikgentoo was a good learning experience02:18
zerojayIt was good for an old laptop that I had.. but I couldn't even imagine running that for a desktop.02:18
alteregoI _understand_ how debian operates, the choices the team make are the choices I'd probably make.02:18
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* celesteh still likes slackware02:18
_Monkeybonjour, akai-02:18
pupnik"whatever works for you, is good"02:19
zerojaySlack was alright for a while though it's not been as good since Pat got sick a year or two ago.02:19
alteregogentoo, well. It's so broken.02:19
x2hey guys02:19
x2i have a questing02:19
alteregoI've never used slack but I've heard good things about it.02:19
x2i have 07 hacker02:19
x2so I should do the steps fr the n800 right?02:19
zerojayalterego: People throw that word around constantly. The fact that my box works perfectly fine shows that it's not broken. :)02:19
alteregozerojay, no, it shows you're lucky.02:19
alteregoOr you're not trying hard enough :P02:19
alteregoWe'll see how successful your sbox install is :P02:20
derfMy 32-bit sbox install worked perfectly on Gentoo.02:20
zerojayA string of 6 years of good luck? I'd say that's pretty good. :)02:20
alteregox2, no.02:20
derfOn 32-bit Gentoo, I should say.02:20
zerojayderf: That's what I'm worried about... but we'll see.02:20
timely_changelogthe only good linux is a dead linux :)02:20
derfI haven't tried it on my 64-bit Gentoo box.02:21
zerojayderf: I'll let you know how it goes.02:21
alteregoI can't take the risk with gentoo.02:21
_Monkeyi guess alterego is yes ;)02:21
alteregoIn theory it's a nice idea but it's just not worth it.02:21
zerojayalterego: Risk of...?02:21
alteregoStability, it breaking and me having to spend an hour or so reinstalling again.02:21
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timely_changelog_monkey forget alterego02:22
_Monkeytimely_changelog: I forgot alterego02:22
alteregoThese are things that just wont happen under debian.02:22
timely_changelog_monkey alterego is <reply>02:22
_MonkeyOK, timely_changelog.02:22
zerojayalterego: You should talk to our IT guy then.02:22
alteregoJust like, I wouldn't trust anything but debian on my servers.02:22
alteregoAnything else would be crazy !02:22
derfIn my experience, no distro I've ever seen properly handles upgrading software on a live system.02:23
derf99% of the time things work.02:23
derfBut I have a lot more than 100 packages installed.02:23
zerojayWe tried it... we encountered so many problems that the company just decided to wipe it out after three days and they replaced it with.. I think it's SuSE.02:23
timely_changelogthe other 9% of the time you just don't notice the corruption until later :)02:23
derfThe difference between Gentoo and Debian is that on Gentoo, I can _always_ find a way to fix it.02:23
alteregozerojay, your "IT guy" obviously wasn't very useful.02:23
alteregoWhich is sad.02:23
zerojayalterego: Bzzzzt. Try again.02:24
alteregoI'm not convinced.02:24
alteregoI can setup a LAMP install with debian in about 10 minutes.02:24
zerojayThat's fine. You don't need to be. You weren't there for the days upon days of deailing with broken packages and libraries that no longer existed, etc...02:24
alteregozerojay, sounds like you're talking about another OS. You wouldn't get that with debian.02:25
zerojayGot that with Debian.02:25
derfalterego: It sounds like you're living with your head in the sand.02:25
derfThat sounds _exactly_ like Debian.02:25
alteregoMaybe the unstable tree ..02:25
derfI never ran unstable.02:25
zerojayAnd once broken packages make it into Debian, it takes *ages* to get them fixed.02:25
alteregoI remember I once installed an unstable package and it actually uninstalled half of my system.02:25
alteregoThat was quite fun.02:25
derfYes, that also.02:26
derfBut substitute testing for unstable.02:26
alteregoWell, I've never had a broken package like you describe. Not outside of unstable.02:26
zerojayDebian's got some upsides to it, that's for sure... but it just wasn't working out for us. I had far less problems with it on an old laptop though, but I never really installed much on that anyways.02:26
alteregoYeah well, I wouldn't use anything but stable now.02:26
derfThen you are either phenomenally lucky, or you throw your computers away every 6 months.02:26
alteregoIf I want something new I'll compile it myself.02:26
zerojayGentoo's not the sort of thing you'd usually use on production machines most of the time either.02:27
derfOh, good God now.02:27
derfBut for a personal development machine? Yes, please.02:27
alteregoRiiight ..02:27
derfThough I know a guy who uses Gentoo for all his production machines.02:28
zerojayI've built a few Gentoo boxes for people... the only downside is the compilation time, but that's barely noticable anymore anyways.02:28
alteregodebian: server; gentoo: toy robot;02:28
alteregoThat's what I'd use those for.02:28
alteregoHeh, barely noticeable ..02:28
zerojayIt's nice being able to type one command and have everything you need installed to run it and not have to worry about a bazillion extra programs being installed because a packager compiled it with every option possible.02:28
alteregoWhy, why compile the whole system?02:28
alteregoFor a 0.1% speed increase? :P02:29
zerojayYou don't have to. I just like to do it.02:29
Jitenyou know, I'm using a mix of Debian etch and testing/unstable and your problems sounds just unimaginable. I haven't had any problems I couldn't fix in 10 minutes.02:29
zerojaySo that you can exclude the crap you don't need.02:29
jeremybtimelyx: is there a microb channel?02:29
derfIt has nothing to do with speed.02:29
zerojayWhich equals less possibility of security problems.02:29
alteregoJiten, exactly :)02:29
zerojayLess cruft you'd never need.02:29
* jeremyb wonders how microb is pronounced02:29
alteregoOr Micro Bee02:30
zerojayI just say Micro-Bee.02:30
alteregoYeah, me too.02:30
* jeremyb has no tablet :-/02:30
alteregoI think I'll start calling it Microbe from now on though, It's cooler.02:30
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derfI mean, I started using Debian at potato.02:31
derfBy sarge, I gave up.02:31
zerojayI don't remember which we were using at the time.02:31
TPCdebian potato was my first distro02:32
TPCI didn't know anything about linux02:32
alteregoMandrake was my first :X02:32
alteregoThen sarge02:32
TPCI got the install and tried installing.. and failed miserably02:32
TPCahh.. the memories02:32
zerojayMandrake was my first install of Linux I did with X.02:32
zerojayBefore that.. I think a console only version of VectorLinux.02:32
alteregoThen LFS, then FC, then Ubuntu, then debian again, and now etch :)02:32
alteregoI missed gentoo.02:33
_Monkeyslackware is the only os I have tried so far that fights setite's network card02:33
alteregoIt wouldn't do anything.02:33
alteregoKept screwing everything up.02:33
alteregoSo I went to LFS02:33
* deejoe installed it with floppies. lots. of. floppies.02:33
jj-Is there some feature equal to gentoo use-flags in debian apt-get ?02:33
alteregoapt-get doesn't compile packages jj-02:34
deejoejj- I think you can set some defaults for apt-build02:34
zerojayYou probably didn't read the (admittedly lengthy) installation docs for Gentoo then... everyone I know that had problems just didn't read it or didn't know enough about their system (built for the wrong arch, for example).02:34
JitenI heard it's possible to set apt up to compile everything02:34
jj-alterego: Yeah, I know that, that is why I'm asking =)02:34
zerojayOr got tired of dealing with it.02:34
alteregozerojay, I was reading them from start to finish.02:34
alteregoJiten, yeah. It's pretty cool.02:34
zerojayYeah, I know. That's what they all say. ;)02:35
deejoejj-, Jiten:
derfI actually hate the new automated Gentoo installer.02:35
derfI still do it from scratch by hand.02:35
zerojayderf: Same here.02:35
alteregozerojay, that's what I say.02:35
zerojayWhat a horrible piece of crap it is.02:35
derfOf course, I hated Debian's installer, also.02:35
zerojayDebian's wasn't bad.02:35
alteregothe etch installer is nice.02:35
alteregothe Gtk framebuffer installer that is02:36
zerojayI haven't played with their latest ones though, but most of the time, it went well enough.02:36
TPCI used gentoo for years02:36
alteregoThe old sarge one was pretty easy. As long as you knew what a partition was etc.02:36
TPCbut I stopped about 6 months ago02:36
TPCthe quality control of gentoo has been bad lately02:36
zerojayYeah, there's been a few more problems than usual lately.02:36
zerojayA few key people getting burned out.02:37
derfGentoo does need to do a better job of recruiting competent volunteers.02:37
TPCbroken packages not getting fixed, non-essential packages not getting new versions for over a year even thought a simple version change in the ebuild is all that is required, bug reports not getting attention, etc02:37
TPCgentoo has too few good developers for a distro of its size02:37
TPCno one to take care of the non-core packages02:37
derfBut I do not know a distro for which that is not true.02:37
zerojayI haven't come across any real problems though. Nothing that wasn't a quick text file fix away.02:37
zerojayBut I know a few people that have.02:38
TPCwell, debian has many developers that are only responsible for one or a few packages02:38
TPCthat works well, since there is a maintainer for each package02:38
TPCthere is always someone who cares02:38
zerojayIf they're still involved with the project, anyways.02:38
TPCfreebsd do the same thing with their ports system02:38
derfI was very impressed by the Theora package maintainer.02:38
TPCand often the package maintainer in debian is the author of the software02:39
alteregoWhich is even better :)02:39
TPCwhich is nice for getting bugs fixed and new versions pushed into unstable02:39
zerojayMost of the time, but I did come across quite a few completely abandoned packages as well.02:39
TPCyes, there will obviously always be a few packages where the maintainer left and no one new has stepped up02:40
zerojayFreeBSD is pretty good about their stuff as well.02:40
TPChere is a list:
zerojayPorts is generally good, but there were a few times where it didn't know what to do anymore.02:41
TPCaltought 300 packages out of (last time I saw a figure, which was at least a year ago) 15000 packages isn't that bad02:41
zerojayI wouldn't mind going back to FreeBSD... though if I make a switch anytime soon, I'm going to give OpenSolaris a shot.02:42
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zerojayMainly because I haven't played with it and want to learn more about it.02:42
zerojayAgogo: IRC as root?02:42
x2i installed xterm02:43
x2and when I do sudo gainroot02:43
x2I get a message saying "enable RD mode if you want to break your device"02:43
x2what am I doing wrong?02:43
TPCI wouldn't mind going to freebsd again as well02:43
TPCexcept that all my disks are encrypted with dm-crypt02:44
TPCwhich is linux-only02:44
TPCx2, I suggest you install a ssh server02:44
TPCand then ssh to the root account on the device02:45
TPCand add yourself to sudoers02:45
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TPCx2, I think thats only for the 77002:47
x2i have the 77002:47
x2that should be for both though02:47
TPCah, well, then I have no idea02:47
TPCbut the ssh approach is easy and works02:48
x2i gots it02:50
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alteregoHmm, I might actually finish ConIc before I go to bed.02:52
alteregoThough it is 1am :S02:52
TPConly 1 in you're timezone? you're lucky :P02:53
TPCalmost 2 here02:53
alteregoI think I'll just finish this class.02:56
alteregoWhich I've just done :)02:57
* sp3000 likes the first too sections of that doc02:57
sp3000two even02:58
* sp3000 looks for the edit bar02:58
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* sp3000 fullscreens his browser and finds it peeking on the right02:58
* alterego imports the new code into SVN and gets naked.02:59
alteregoSVN makes me horny.02:59
timely_changelogsvn sucks03:00
alteregoYou suck :P03:00
alteregoAre hornets fatal?03:01
alteregoMeh, whatever. Good night folks.03:02
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x2where is mbcache.ko located?03:06
celestehcvn makes hir what??!03:06
infobotcelesteh meant: svn makes hir what??!03:06
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x2how do I find a file?03:08
x2from xterm03:08
TPCfind and grep03:10
TPCits crude, but effective03:11
TPCfind / | grep -i <word>03:11
TPCwhere word is part of the file name03:11
deejoefind / -name "*word*"03:11
deejoeI expect find / | grep to bomb with an error about too many arguments03:12
TPCdeejoe, eh?03:12
TPCfind passes its findings to grep using stdin03:13
TPCnot as arguments03:13
x2holy mother03:13
pupniksomeday i want to find a tablet with default password, ssh-in and run the echoplex script03:13
x2i think that worked03:13
x2brb wjile I try to mount the rest of my mmc card03:13
TPCdeejoe, your way uses slightly less kernel resources03:14
TPCbut I doubt you would notice any difference :P03:14
pupnikechoes the mic-in to gstreamer output for a nifty echo box :)03:14
deejoeTPC: yes, TMTOWTDI03:14
* jeremyb didn't notice sp sp3000 was here03:16
x2why cant i mount this partition :(03:17
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timely_changeloghrm, can someone tell me who or what this lady is and why she's on tv?
timely_changelogtpc: btw do you have a blog you'd want credited?03:27
TPCtimely_changelog, no, I don't have a blog03:29
timely_changelogwould you want a name credited or just TPC?03:29
TPCTPC is fine, if you want to you can include my e-mail, andreas@tpwch.com03:30
timely_changelogdisq: same offer03:32
x2how do I cd to the documents folder?03:33
x2# cd /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/03:33
x2tried that btu it says I cant cd there03:33
TPCwhats the exact error?03:33
x2can't cd to "path"03:34
x2path being whatever I type03:34
timely_changelogtry it piecemeal03:34
timely_changelogcd /03:34
timely_changelogcd home03:34
timely_changelogcd user03:34
timely_changelogcd MyDocs03:34
timely_changelogcd .documents03:34
TPChm.. busybox cd doesn't give the same error messages as bash cd03:35
TPCI suppose that is to be expected, more general error messages to save disk space03:35
x2no mydoc folder03:35
timely_changelogbusybox is fiarly sucky03:35
x2how do i dir list03:35
_Monkeybusybox is, like, weak by default03:36
celestehwhat is it?03:36
x2i type ls03:36
x2it shows Mydocs03:36
x2cd Mydocs03:36
x2wont do it03:36
solmumahait's case sensitive03:36
celestehoh, you're trying to get to your home dir03:36
x2fuck me03:36
celestehmaybe later03:37
timely_changelogin scratchbox it's not 'user'03:37
timely_changelogit's typically your username03:37
x2im n00b03:37
x2thanls Solarion03:37
TPCcelesteh, its a software project, it has a minimal version of core utilities like the shell, ls, mount, chown, and so on03:37
TPCall in one statically linked binary that isn't taking up alot of space03:38
TPCthen you can symlink things like /bin/ls to it and it will work like the real thing03:38
TPCits nice for emergencies03:38
TPCsay if you broke libc03:38
celesteharen't those commands built-in when you install the xterm?03:38
TPCor need a complete set of utilities on a small system, like a floppy distro03:38
celestehoh, this isn't a maemo program03:39
TPCmaemo is using it thought to provide those basic utilities03:39
TPCxterm is just a terminal emulator, it doesn't really do much, it takes input from things like the keyboard and sends them to a shell, then shows the output of the shell on the screen03:40
TPCor whatever app you are running obviously03:40
TPCwould have been nice if maemo had used linux-utils and coreutils to provide those tools, its the "full" versions of the tools, they may take up more space and use more ram, but they are alot easier to work with if you are used to them03:41
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TPCanyway, its getting late, goodnight everyone03:43
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timely_changelogm heh04:21
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pupnikbusybox was a good choice.  people who need more can install it.04:34
zerojayGood choice when resources are limited.04:35
pupnikin general, 80% of 'Nokia should have' comments fail the 'have a clue' test.04:35
zerojayHah.. agreed.04:35
pupnikbtw if busybox vi annoys you, the BSD-based 'nvi' is great! (and small)04:37
pupnikvim - wayyy to big04:37
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pupnikthx to lardman for this interesting performance comparison
snowmoonI wonder how the 8x0 will perform @ 400 compared to those specs04:47
pupniklook at the N800's crazy specs on the fourier transform test04:47
pupnik(Curse Intel.  We hates it!  We hates it!  We hates foreevaaaahhhh!  </gollum>)04:48
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pupnikWell since memory speed doesn't increase afaik, improvement factor is <= 400/33304:49
snowmoonBut it should bring it much closer to the PXA25504:50
snowmoonwhere it's not already beating it04:50
pupnikyeah and PCA270s have been out since at least 200404:51
snowmoonOne thing it doesn't list though is wattage per unit04:52
pupnik"the 624-MHz PXA 270 dissipated 530 milliwatts,"04:53
snowmoonIs that better or worse than the TI chips04:54
pupnik"the PXA 320 operating at the same frequency dissipates 327 mW"04:54
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x2bricked my 77004:58
_MonkeyReflashing will reset your devices memory to factory default and wipe your home directory - use backup so that you can restore your data to the new firmware04:58
x2cant do it on 64 bit (gay)04:59
celesteh64 bit machines are homosexual?04:59
x2i cant backup if I cant boot mr bot04:59
x2RAM: Used: 1824/4094MB04:59
* celesteh confused04:59
x2i need 64 bit04:59
celestehwhat does that have to do with being gay?04:59
x2no drivers for the 770?05:00
x2so i cant flash it on 64 bit05:00
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celestehi don't see the connection to sexual orientation?05:00
x2i have to put the flasher and bin on my flash drive05:00
x2walk to my sisters room05:00
x2and flash it on xp05:00
x2install linux in vmware05:01
x2taking forever05:01
x2and flash in linux05:01
celestehok, that sounds like a pain in the ass05:01
celestehbut, unless you're implying something totally inappropriate about your relationship with your sister05:01
celestehi still don't see what it has to do with being gay?05:02
pupnikafaik the TI omaps give you more bang per milliwatt than PXAs, but this is just an impression05:02
snowmoonI've left my 770 running pidgn for 8-10 hours and still had most of the charge left05:03
snowmoonNow if I can just figure out how not to crash the browser I would be all set05:05
pupniklooks like Cortex-A8 will weigh-in around 300mW in 65nm fab05:05
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pupnikbtw that link above gives interesting CFLAGS to try for optimizing performance on 770 / N80005:10
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snowmoonSpeed is just one factor... -Os is probably the best choice except for very small, speed critical, sections05:15
* pupnik enters the cflag-tweak-compile-perftest infinite regression05:15
zerojay-Os should be the best for the tablets.05:16
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pupniki generally look at what ssvb does :)05:17
pupnikoh dear - runt05:19
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zerojayI got enough positive feedback about the post I made on the ITT forum about IT2008 apps needing to be recompiled that I'm going to just start a blog.05:20
zerojayAs much as I hate the term... eh.05:20
zerojaySeems like there's a need for some of the technical stuff to be explained in plain english... so, why not.05:21
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snowmoonzerojay: memory bandwith vs microbenchmark ;-)05:22
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pupnikwow new flags reduced dosbox from 6.8MB to 3.4MB (with debug symbols)05:24
snowmoonzerojay: which post specificall ( curious )05:24
zerojayI don't remember where it was exactly on the forums.05:25
zerojayThere were so many threads posted that got to 10+ pages.05:25
snowmoonlol, I think I'll try searching first05:25
zerojayPeople were complaining about developers needing to recompile their apps for IT2008 because of the switch to a current GTK... along with the pluses and minuses of it and why it needed to be done.05:26
zerojayuhh... would be nice if blogger let me actually TYPE in the text entry field.05:26
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x2anyone there?06:12
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pupnikhi x206:52
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x2hey pupnik06:56
pupnikhow did flashing go?06:57
x2im trying to do os06 now06:57
x2to my mmc06:57
x2then flash hacker06:57
x2so it should dual boot it06:58
x2on the 2nd to bottom code box06:59
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x2where you make the other partition on the mmc..06:59
x2it wont let me do mke2fs06:59
x2says it is not valid06:59
x2oh yay its done copying everything06:59
x2let me finish and see if it even boots..06:59
x2i dont know wtf07:02
x2same exact boot loop07:02
x2i know whats messed up too07:03
x22nd box up07:03
x2and bottom box07:03
pupnikyou gotta insmod the ext2fs module07:03
x2I doubt it got mounted right07:03
x2I do?07:04
pupnikor modprobe it rather07:04
pupnikwhy don't they mention that you have to modprobe the module07:04
x2is that why im getting owned07:04
x2im going to flash back to hacker 07 and try again07:04
pupnikhmm nono07:05
x2how do i modprobe it?07:05
pupniktype lsmod in xterm07:05
x2hacker o7 or os0607:05
x2i need to fraking reflash it again now07:05
pupnikstick with 06 if that's wha.07:05
pupnikif you reflash do 06 and then install xterm and do the becomeroot bit07:05
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x2i can do that quick07:06
x2maybe you can walk me through it after that?07:06
pupnikthen before you do the mke3fs07:06
x2im getting nowhere07:06
pupnikdo 'lsmod'07:06
pupnikand see if it has the "ext2" module loaded07:06
pupnikif not, then "modprobe ext2"07:06
pupnikotherwise it can't (afaik) format ext207:06
x2is there something else that can cause it?07:06
pupnikafaik, ext2 isn't loaded by default07:07
x2on hacker 07 everything seemed to be ok07:07
x2then it boot looped07:07
x2does that look alright?07:07
x2ill brb a sec though07:07
x2flasha again07:07
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x2im back07:11
pupniki'll be around - no hurry07:12
x2everything on that page ^ look ok?07:12
x2ill try this once more :/07:12
x2repeat flashing is annoying me07:12
pupnikno afaik that page is missing "modprobe ext2"07:14
pupniksorry i see it at the end07:14
pupnikso maybe mke2fs doesn't really require ext2.ko07:15
x2if this bricks it again..07:15
pupnikwell run through it and maybe we can figure out what's not working07:15
x2i swear :/07:15
x2installing xterm and bluetooth07:15
pupnikalso let me know if you want to install two OSes on mmc instead of one07:17
x2thats fine07:17
x2i guess this boot selector isnt working07:17
x2sicne it doesnt even show that07:17
x2probably the mmc2 not being mounted right..07:17
pupnikon n770 you only have mmc107:17
x2[00:14] <pupnik> sorry i see it at the end07:18
x2# insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/current/ext2.ko07:18
x2# mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 /media/mmc207:18
x2that bottom mount shouldnt be there?07:18
pupnikoh that :)_07:18
x2it never has mounted for me07:18
pupniki meant in the normal configuration07:18
x2ok, lets get started here07:19
x2oh wow07:19
x2i just tried to touch my monitor...07:19
x2too much 770 syndrom07:19
pupnikheh i think i did that once07:20
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x2all set07:32
x2shall i start getting owned again?07:32
pupnikyou're at the sfdisk step yes?07:33
x2just about07:33
x2im getting the package07:33
x2where should I stop at?07:34
pupnikwell after you do the sfdisk stuff07:34
pupnikyou should be able to see the partitions with fdisk -l07:34
pupnikactually nothing* there should mess up your system07:35
x2ill do that whole block as it shows07:35
x2ok all done07:39
x2i have a 2gb card07:39
x2that souldnt matter should it?07:39
x2try to format them now?07:39
x2ok i just shutdown07:40
x2once its rebooted07:40
x2its mke2fs time07:40
x2what do I do?07:40
pupnikmy 2gb card worked07:41
x2whats lsmod supposed to show07:42
x2do i try mke2fs?07:42
pupnikdid mkdosfs work?07:44
pupnikok go for it07:44
x2it worked07:44
x2i did this on hacker and it still bricked07:44
x2so hopefully...07:44
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x2im a noob07:56
x2on the boot flasher..07:56
x2it prompts yes/no07:56
x2i was typing y07:56
x2y <> yes07:56
pupnikwhat boot flasher are you running now?07:57
x2whatever it told me to07:57
x2in that link07:57
x2yay bootloader works!07:58
x2thanks so much for the help08:05
pupnik  For those not in the USA - here are the media lies that are flooding the US media to justify an attack on Iran08:05
pupnikcheers- you did it all :)08:06
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pupnikIran funding Al-Quaeda... LIE08:22
pupnikhaha sorry offtopic08:22
czrpupnik, unless you can tie that up with the internet tablets somehow08:24
czrI'm pretty sure there's some consipracy theory that fits that purpose too :-)08:25
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czrany ideas on how exactly to simulate the signal the mce emits when entering flight mode? (on the SDK)09:50
czrI'm trying this: dbus-send --system --type=signal /com/nokia/mce/signal string:'flight'09:52
czrbut it doesn't register in libosso09:52
czrah. found it09:54
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pupnikgot a new build of dosbox for testing10:44
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JaffaMorning, all11:04
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AD-N770good morning12:04
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db48xI don't like the way the n800 lets you type accented characters13:37
db48xI type fast enough that my "it's" always comes out as "it'ś"13:38
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alteregoI've not had that problem13:47
alteregoMaybe you should try relaxing more :)13:47
alteregoI do have a problem with upcasing characters and the web browser.13:47
alteregoIf I make any of the top row upcase the focus switches from what ever input I'm using to the location bar, which is a pain in the ass :)13:47
timely_changelogyes, that's a common problem13:51
timely_changelogvery annoying13:51
JaffaAnother reason for a real keyboard.13:51
JaffaAlthough hopefully the general performance improvements mean that resizing the window to accomdate the popup keyboard is a little more seamless.13:51
timely_changelogi think i ended up blaming the ui13:51
timely_changelogactually i think we stopped resizing the window13:52
timely_changelogjaffa: wanna read a long draft? :(13:52
JaffaYeah, better than helping with the Sunday lunch ;-)13:52
* timely_changelog grumbles13:53
timely_changeloghese people must be dyslexic13:53
timely_changeloghow do they manage to draw a slash for the same object going in two different directions..13:53
JaffaOh no. Am I going to get annoyed at the lack of grammar, punctuation and proper speeling? I get enough of that at work, from supposed client-facing "professionals" :(13:54
timely_changelogif you buy or use a Nokia product, i believe it's impossible not to13:54
JaffaOnly if you RTFM ;)13:54
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timely_changelogor TFM, TF-UI, TF-Help, TF-Forums13:55
timely_changelogor Anything with letters13:55
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JaffaTFUI can be so annoying in other ways, I tend to ignore it. Although I got *really* annoyed when Blocks was included officially but still said "You loose".13:56
timely_changelogi got them to fix that one13:56
timely_changelogi still haven't managed to get them to spell "ring tones" correctly13:57
timely_changelogthey insist that nokia style is more important than what's on nokiausa.com13:57
timely_changelogdon't ask me why13:57
* timely_changelog should cc marketing13:57
timely_changelognot that marketing seems to have any sway here, they seem to be given orders like "please march off the following cliffs"13:57
JaffaAren't marketing usually in charge? (Whether that's for the best or not...)13:59
timely_changelogonly in sane places13:59
suihkulokkitimely_changelog: damn, that order should have been sent to the legal department13:59
timely_changeloghere we have product management which has "Vision"13:59
JaffaOh. PHBs FTW.13:59
timely_changelogsuihkulokki: the legal department is yet another group which can't manage to write proper English sentences13:59
timely_changelognot specifically the person with whom I work, he's a nice and good lawyer13:59
timely_changelogbut the ones who manage to get text into our content14:00
JaffaStill, Steve Jobs has vision and he seems to be doing all right.14:00
timely_changelogi'll offer text from maemo.org14:00
timely_changelogjaffa: he's steve jobs14:00
timely_changelogwe have these guys who readily admit they aren't him14:00
timely_changelogbut don't bother trying to emulate him14:00
timely_changelogand still make absolute decissions14:00
timely_changeloganyway, url in a sec14:00
JaffaThe Application Manager's legalese is annoying.14:00
timely_changelogiirc it doesn't have many bugs other than being verbose14:01
timely_changelogPlease note that, Nokia makes no representations or warranties of any kind, including express or implied that your Contribution will end up to this or any other project of Nokia.14:01
timely_changelog"will end up to this"14:01
* Jaffa shakes head.14:01
timely_changelogyes, right, that could be English in some alternate dimension14:01
timely_changelogat this point, i'm happy with verbose legalese as long as it's proper English14:02
timely_changelogi just can't even find tha14:02
timely_changelogand the sad thing is, these people should know that the more words they write, the less likely they are to achieve proper English14:02
Jaffa"Your Contribution must be under license accepted by Open Source Initiative." Missing an "a" there.14:02
timely_changelogyeah well, i didn't say this was the only bug in that sentence14:02
timely_changelogor paragraph... the next one isn't great either14:03
Jaffa"If the contribution or parts thereof are copyrighted by someone else than you and it is not evident form the license terms [...]". Two mistakes in that phrase alone.14:03
timely_changelogbut that's a nit!14:03
timely_changelogdoes it say "Form"?14:03
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Jaffatimely_changelog: yep, that's a c&p.14:03
* timely_changelog sighs14:03
suihkulokkiwell, the bloggers have replaced journalists dispite the typoes and grammar problems14:04
timely_changelogdear sir: your legal text has been rejected for failing to pass evaluation by a 4th grade American student14:04
suihkulokkiso it could happen to lawyers as well :P14:04
timely_changelogsuihkulokki: i'd rather replace them with engineers14:04
timely_changelogpreferably ones who know that Firefox has a spellchecker14:04
timely_changelogalthough, even those seem relatively rare :(14:05
* suihkulokki prefers replacing them with small shellscripts14:05
timely_changeloggranted, that won't save us from form, but ...14:05
timely_changelog.invite jaffa14:05
alteregoWhy is spelling so important to you?14:06
timely_changelogalterego: total lack of professionalism14:06
alteregoOh, really.14:06
timely_changelogoften the meaning is changed when you mess up14:06
alteregoWell, I disagree.14:06
timely_changelogany text that will be translated will be corruped if the ext didn't start off correct14:06
* timely_changelog has plenty of examples14:07
infobottimely_changelog meant: any ttext that will be translated will be corruped if the ext didn't start off correct14:07
timely_changelogno, i didn't!14:07
alteregoI guess if your application requires it to be exact that's a good reason.14:07
timely_changelogalterego: oddly, legal contexts DO!14:07
timely_changelogand translations absolutely do!14:07
db48xthat's totally unprofessional of you, timeless14:07
timely_changelogsince otherwise you get the image viewer application which has14:07
alteregolegal contexts shmeagle flotexts.14:07
timely_changelog"(finn)turn to horizontaol"14:08
timely_changelog"(finn)turn to horizontal"14:08
timely_changelog"(finn)turn to vertical"14:08
timely_changelogwhich if you try to read it basically means14:08
timely_changelogfor a wide image and the first option, do nothing14:08
alteregoWhy don't you just get lawyers from whatever country the language you're translating to?14:08
timely_changelogfor a tall image and the second option, do nothing14:08
timely_changelogalterego: sorry, unrelated problem spaces14:08
* timely_changelog pokes jaffa, join14:09
timely_changelogthe translation space is what i'm describing here14:09
* alterego compiles some stuff for maemo :)14:09
timely_changelogfor a tall image and the first option, it means "rotate 90deg" to a random direction14:09
timely_changelogand similarly for a wide image and the second option14:09
timely_changelogtoo bad the intent means something very different14:10
infobottimely_changelog meant: too bad the intent was something very different14:10
* timely_changelog pokes jaffa, join?14:10
alteregoWell, I can't say I get annoyed by poor translations, or other peoples spelling mistakes. I do get annoyed about my own spelling mistakes.14:10
db48xalterego: timely works for Nokia, so in a sense they are his own spelling mistakes14:11
timely_changelogthey make me look bad14:11
timely_changelogthey result in a product which won't sell well in our target market14:12
alteregoTo who? I think you're quite pretty ;)14:12
timely_changeloghave you seen a photo of me?14:12
timely_changelogand did you mean petty?14:12
timely_changelogsee, spelling counts!14:12
timely_changelogand if i can't trust you to spell words right, i can't trust anything you say14:12
timely_changelogmaybe you misspelled that too...14:12
alteregoI generally always correct myself.14:13
timely_changeloggenerally always = contradiction14:13
timely_changelogredo from start14:13
alteregoI will usually correct myself :P14:13
timely_changelogbtw, i've removed most of the spelling errors from the numbered section14:14
timely_changelogthat doesn't mean there weren't any14:14
timely_changelogit just means they annoyed me so much that i couldn't stand them / waiting to rewrie them14:15
timely_changelogoh, for the record, since not everyone here knows, my 't' key fails some portion of the time14:15
* timely_changelog can't wait for the i, e, m, l, and s keys to start failing14:15
konttoriHey, does anyone know if n810 actually has the fm sender functionality?14:15
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konttoriyeah. radio14:16
timely_changelogno raido14:16
konttoriit was mentioned somewhere14:16
infobottimely_changelog meant: no radio14:16
alteregoIt's an external unit I thought.14:16
timely_changelogwe swapped the radio for gps :)14:16
konttoriahh. well, makes sense14:17
konttoriwould have been nice while waiting for the final a2dp support14:17
konttoriI was mainly interested in it for the transmitter part.14:18
konttorito be able to hook sound signal to the stereo14:18
konttorithey were saying in here:
konttorithat it contained the trasmitter.14:19
konttorianyway, gps is much better to have in there.14:19
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db48xhey, am I the only one that is annoyed that the butt of the stylus is not perpendicular to it's shaft?14:24
db48xI keep idly trying to stand the thing on end14:24
* alterego wonder how many people will apply to the device program in the end.14:24
db48xand always failing14:24
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db48xooh, the slope of my keyboard is just right14:27
db48xI can stand it up there if I orient it correctly14:27
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alteregoDamnit, I know what I should have done.14:31
alteregoI should have made an image of my partitioned SD card so I could reinstate it easily ..14:31
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db48xtimely_changelog: got a minute for a stupid question?14:32
db48xI need to know how to launch microb from the command line, in order to get Talos working on the n800. However, simply executing /usr/bin/browser doesn't do anything14:33
db48xis there a trick? a secret handshake perhaps?14:33
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timely_changelogtypically tha should work14:33
timely_changelogyou can try /usr/bin/browser --engine=microb --url=about:blank14:33
alteregoShouldn't he use the dbus service?14:33
timely_changelogthe fewer headaches the better14:34
timely_changelogand given talos integrates w/ a number of geckos14:34
timely_changelogall of which use shell scripts or equivalents to run, no14:34
* alterego wonders if that would work with OS200814:34
timely_changeloghe shouldn't be customizing the thing to deal with lame apis14:34
timely_changelogespecially ones likely to change weekly14:34
db48xwell, Talos has a different Python module for each OS already14:35
db48xand I'm adding one specifically for the n80014:35
db48xso if I must use dbus then I will14:35
timely_changelogok: i don't support dbus14:35
timely_changelogif you want to deal w/ it, you're on your own14:35
db48xif there's documentation on it, and the command line doesn't work14:35
timely_changelogyou can talk to swift, but um, you can't :)14:35
db48xahh, adding the --url param fixed it14:36
db48xwell, almost14:36
db48xit opened a window and then segfaulted14:36
alteregoIs IT2006 mistral or gregale?14:36
timely_changelogclose enough for government work14:36
timely_changelogalterego: yes14:36
timely_changelogyou scipped scirocco14:37
infobottimely_changelog meant: you skipped scirocco14:37
alteregoWell, I never owned a 770 so I don't really know about it.14:37
db48xit only crashes if there's already a copy of the browser open14:37
alteregoI think I'll drop support for the 770 and ruby-maemo14:37
alteregoI'll compile one set of packages but that's it for now.14:37
timely_changelogalterego: well, that page is designed to solve the problem, at least until 4.0 comes out14:38
timely_changelogwhich reminds me14:38
timely_changelogi was going to rename 3.x to 4.0 in bugs.maemo14:38
* timely_changelog frowns14:41
timely_changelogwhat is a Internet Tablet Video Converter14:41
alteregoSo would it be better to tag releases as 'maemo2' and 'maemo3' and 'maemo4' etc?14:41
timely_changelogand why does it deserve a produc?14:41
timely_changelogalterego: i'd suggest giving up14:41
alteregoGiving up what?14:42
timely_changelogwell, you're going to do it, you probably want 2.0, 2.1, 2.2., ...14:42
alteregoI'm not going to do it for _every_ release ..14:43
alteregoI'll do it for 2.2 3.2 and 4.014:43
alteregoWhich should be inline with the latest ITOS releases for each HW platform?14:43
timely_changelogdoes svn not suppor symlinks?14:43
alteregoNot as far as I know.14:43
timely_changelogn800s will run 4.014:43
alteregotimely_changelog, yes. I know.14:44
alteregoLike 770 can run 3.214:44
timely_changelogso if you're counting hardware plaforms, then, um...14:44
db48xoh, hrm14:48
db48xI bet there's no way to specify a new profile location when you launch microb14:48
timely_changelogiirc the env vars probably work14:49
timely_changelogbut otherwise, right14:49
timely_changelogno commandline parsing14:49
db48xenv var is worth a try14:50
db48xMOZ_PROFILE_DIR or something, right?14:50
timely_changelogsounds right, but ask mxr14:50
db48xhmm, no luck14:53
sp3000yes, svn can store symlinks14:56
timely_changelogpersonally, i'd suggest you use symlinks14:57
timely_changelog3.x => 3.214:57
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*** acme_bbl is now known as acme15:02
db48xwhy does the browser's save as feature use '.htm' as the filename extension?15:03
timely_changelog8.3 suppor :)15:05
timely_changelogbu seriously, i have no idea, i'm sure we inheritted it from some ancient spec15:06
* timely_changelog wonders why websites has a bug w/ tm1.215:07
timely_changelogtarget milestone15:10
timely_changelogif you have js enabled, load
timely_changelogoh, heh15:11
timely_changelogtm's aren't enabled15:11
timely_changelogwell now, ain't that a trick15:11
db48xthis is interesting15:11
zerojayWe can always just pretend. :)15:11
db48xthe File Manager on my n800 shows a 'Shared media' as a peer of the n80015:12
db48xwith 'Azureus' inside it15:12
zerojayAzureus probably has a upnp server.15:12
db48xyea, I think it does15:12
timely_changelognote the target_milestone is 1.2 :)15:12
alteregoruby-libconic done :)15:13
timely_changelogzerojay: datamining for experts courses :)15:13
timely_changelogisn't libconic deprecated?15:13
db48xso what exactly does the n800 look for in a upnp server?15:13
alteregoIt's in chinook.15:13
timely_changelog"hello upnp server"15:14
alteregoI don't see any deprecation notes anywhere ..15:14
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db48xoh, also15:14
alteregoAre you saying there's deprecated libs in there?15:14
zerojaydb48x: Like most guys when asked what they look for in women, it just looks for ANY UPNP server. ;)15:14
db48xwhy are does the wifi signal strength indicator look like it's disabled?15:15
db48xzerojay: heh15:15
timely_changelogoh, sorry15:15
timely_changelogosso-ic is the deprecated one15:15
alteregoGood, so I've not wasted the past few hours ;)15:15
* timely_changelog sighs15:16
timely_changelogwhy does my device think it's a good idea to randomly hunt for ntworks and then bug my screen with "save this network" sysem modal dialogs15:16
timely_changelogwhile the device is *idl*15:16
infobottimely_changelog meant: while the device is *idle*15:16
alteregoSounds like a bug.15:17
timely_changelogsounds like a feature15:17
alteregoOh wait, is there a "auto connect" feature?15:17
timely_changelogfwiw, i could use 2008 on my n800s15:17
timely_changelogalterego: yes15:17
alteregoMaybe turn that off?15:17
timely_changelogbut, to do so, i'd have to backup everything, which takes way too long15:17
timely_changelogalterego: why should i have to?15:17
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timely_changelogi didn't tell it to "automatically bug me to save networks"15:17
alteregoWell, if you want those "annoying system notifications".15:18
zerojayPut it in offline mode.15:18
alteregoSend it to me.15:18
timely_changelogzerojay: but maybe i don't want it offline15:18
timely_changelogalterego: sorry, i can only ship official hardware15:18
timely_changelogand i think i've already offered my n81015:18
alteregoWhat about an N95?15:19
timely_changelogi don't have one15:19
snowmoondisable the app that's bringing up the networking?15:19
timely_changelogsnowmoon: there isn't one afaict15:19
timely_changelogthere's nothing on the desktop15:19
snowmoonthere is15:19
alteregoActually, after seeing one the other day I'm not sure I want one anyway.15:19
timely_changelogmedia player is the only app running15:19
zerojaytimely_changelog: Your tablet is a junkie needing its fix... plug the ethernet cable directly to its veins!15:19
timely_changelogand it's idle15:19
* db48x sighs15:19
alteregoThink I'll stick to my SE pos15:19
alteregosony eric15:19
czrsucky edition?15:19
czroh :-)15:19
alteregoIt's actually disintergrating.15:20
alteregoEvery week something new falls off.15:20
timely_changeloghey, w950i's are good phones15:20
zerojaytimely_changelog: Control Panel -> Connectivity -> Search interval15:20
alteregoThis phone must be 3 years old, at least.15:20
zerojayWell.. if it's still the same on IT2008 anyways.15:20
alteregoMaybe more15:20
zerojaytimely_changelog: Change it to Never.15:21
_Monkeyzerojay: that doesn't look right15:21
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zerojayBoom, no more annoying popups.15:21
* timely_changelog says15:21
timely_changelogzerojay: click the ? in that dialog15:21
timely_changelogscroll to "Tip:"15:22
timely_changelogdo you see:15:22
timely_changelogIf you enable Any connection... ?15:22
* alterego rubinizes libconic15:22
timely_changelogis the next word wrong?15:22
timely_changelogthat's the word15:23
zerojayYeah, i guess it should be "or".15:23
Jitenok, there is something weird about gtk.TextView. If I type a literal string and put it in there, I can select the text just fine. However, for some other strings that come from an unpickling operation (I think) I can't select the text. Even if I combine them with literals before showing.15:23
timely_changelogthere's a product15:23
timely_changelogplease file a bug :)15:23
zerojayWill do.15:23
timely_changelogspecify version 4.015:23
timely_changelogit's still broken15:23
timely_changelogfeel free to read throught the rest of the page15:23
timely_changelogif you're feeling evil, you can try setting target milestone of "Next"15:24
zerojayI'll do that if my kid won't be bothering me.15:24
timely_changelog(use another bugzilla to find out the field name, and use dom inspector or abuse bugzilla to insert the field into the submission)15:24
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timely_changelogeasiest way to abuse bugzilla is to get jesse's frmget bookmarklet (google it)15:25
db48xwow, the tabs in osso-xterm look terrible15:25
timely_changelogand then add '@'15:25
timely_changelogto the CC field15:25
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timely_changelogwhen you submit, you'll have an error, but the url will let you abuse it15:25
JitenI guess my problem isn't too widely known one. I guess I'll try to dig some more.15:25
timely_changelogdb48x: they're gone in 4.015:25
timely_changelogthank g-d15:25
zerojaytimely_changelog: I think I'll just let you add it properly after it's filed. ;)15:25
timely_changelogtabs on maemo are about the dumbest thing imaginable15:25
db48xcan you launch multiple xterms instead?15:25
timely_changelogdb48x: um15:25
timely_changelogdunno, since xterm isn't on my product image :)15:26
zerojaytimely_changelog: Agreed.. but everyone keeps bitching for tabbed browsing.15:26
timely_changelogbut there's a new window option in the app menu15:26
zerojayIt's as though they want to LOSE more screen space.15:26
timely_changelogzerojay: users are clever15:26
GeneralAntillesHa, no, tabs are a fine idea.15:26
GeneralAntillesYou just have to implement them right.15:26
GeneralAntillesFor instance: transparency.15:26
timely_changelogsee... we already have a ui15:26
timely_changelogit's this button which keeps changing its icon15:27
timely_changelogatm it looks like a house15:27
timely_changelogbut in the n810 it will look like a square15:27
timely_changelogwith a shadow15:27
timely_changelogpress it once, and you get a list of "tabs"15:27
GeneralAntillesThat's two clicks15:27
timely_changelogincluding 64x54 icons15:27
GeneralAntillesI want one click15:27
sp3000timely_changelog: pretty sure it autoconns shouldn't give you dialogs by default?15:27
snowmoonif you don't want to loose screen realestate just have the tab bar auto-hide on fullscreen mode15:27
timely_changelogsp3000: that'd be logical and reasonable15:28
sp3000since the autoconns are to saved networks, prompting to save would be ...weird15:28
timely_changelogbut my device disagrees15:28
GeneralAntillesJust make the tab background transparent.15:28
timely_changelogok, fwiw, transparency on our device is a big cpu killer15:28
sp3000timely_changelog: fwiw when I open a link in a new window, I'll then to switch back and would like to know when the new page has loaded15:28
timely_changelogso can you just pretend that transparency is both impossible and simply doesn't exist?15:28
infobotsp3000 meant: timely_changelog: fwiw when I open a link in a new window, I'll tend to switch back and would like to know when the new page has loaded15:29
timely_changelogsp3000: an info bannner wouldn't make you happy?15:29
* GeneralAntilles looks at the OS2008 screenshots and wonders.15:29
snowmoondoesn't the TI chip have asmall 3d unit on it?15:29
sp3000timely_changelog: it might15:29
GeneralAntillesThen, how about 100% transparent?15:29
timely_changelogsnowmoon: and no driver for it, yep15:29
timely_changelogsp3000: i'll gladly give you that15:29
zerojaysnowmoon: We don't have access to it and the only driver available is for Linux 2.4.15:29
timely_changelogespecially if i can trade it for the current "updating" banner ...15:29
* timely_changelog rolls eyes15:29
timely_changelog100% transparent? sure, as long as i can optimize it away15:30
timely_changelogsince that means i don't need to do any drawing15:30
* timely_changelog likes tha deal15:30
timely_changelogwhat's next?15:30
db48xis there any way to make 'return' behave properly?15:31
timely_changeloghrm, you don't want to be able to click on your 100% transparent tabs, i hope15:31
timely_changelogdb48x: use the numeric keypad one instead?15:31
GeneralAntillesDivider bars and title text15:31
db48xthat's 'enter'15:31
db48xand it's really far away from my pinky15:31
timely_changelogit usually does what people want15:31
timely_changeloganyway, xmodmap ?15:31
* timely_changelog shrugs15:31
timely_changelogjust remap return to enter15:31
db48xyea, I figured that's how I'd have to do it15:31
alteregosnowmoon, that it does but it's not utilised yet.15:32
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db48xI was hoping to just be able to disable the on screen keyboard thing that pops up instead15:32
timely_changelogyou assume i will ever be used15:32
* sp3000 tries to find chinook api docs15:32
timely_changelogdb48x: tell your sdk you're an n81015:32
GeneralAntillesActually, really, if I could just change something to "Open in new background window" I'd be happy.15:32
timely_changelogit doesn't open the vkb by default if you're an n81015:32
db48xtimely_changelog: mmm. how do I go about doing that?15:32
timely_changeloggood question :)15:33
sp3000meh, it doesn't have what I was looking for15:33
timely_changelogdb48x: try control panel/text input settings15:33
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timely_changelogunder on screen, i have "enable stylus input methods"15:34
timely_changelogif you have that, you can uncheck i15:34
timely_changelogif you don't, get a vpn and ask swift to help you find out the logic it uses :)15:34
timely_changeloganyone here have microb?15:35
db48xno, I don't have that15:35
timely_changelogin about:15:35
db48xI do have microb though15:35
timely_changelogdo you have something abou "internal settings"15:35
timely_changelogdb48x: if you're using trunk, i don't care15:35
timely_changelogi need latest release i think15:35
db48xI've still got the release version on my n80015:36
timely_changelogoh, ok15:36
timely_changelogcheck about: :)15:36
db48xit does not have anything about internal settings15:36
zerojaytimely_changelog: I don't see anything about internal settings either.15:36
GeneralAntillesYeah, nothing.15:36
timely_changelogok, good15:36
db48xit's got a link to about:config though15:36
zerojaySee the build config used in this version...15:36
timely_changelogsame for the rest of you?15:37
timely_changelogabout:config is what i'm asking about15:37
db48xheh, the link to the release notes is missing15:37
timely_changelogi suppose we could try fixing that someday15:37
db48xthe text is 'See the prefs config for this version'15:37
timely_changelogespecially since i do write them15:37
db48xis the release version really based on 3.0a1?15:38
timely_changelogi think we always forge the useragentn15:38
timely_changelogit's based on something from this summer15:38
db48xthe gecko version number is a6pre15:39
db48xthey should at least be in sync :)15:39
timely_changelogwhy? :)15:39
timely_changelogpersonally, if i'm going to fight the ua15:39
timely_changelogi want it to stop violating the ua spec15:39
db48xhaven't the gecko and firefox alphas been in sync this time around?15:39
timely_changelogwhich it does...15:39
db48xI know we're up to 1.9a9pre and 3.0a9pre, respectively15:40
timely_changelogfwiw, the reason for channels is because i'm unregistered15:40
timely_changeloghence, i can't /msg15:40
db48xyea, freenode is annyoing15:41
_Monkeyannoying are things that require 2.4 as a dependancy. i cba to hack them onto the device15:41
zerojayAnnoying is that bot.15:41
timely_changelog_monkey forget annoying15:41
_Monkeytimely_changelog: I forgot annoying15:41
timely_changelog_monkey annoying is <reply>15:42
_MonkeyOK, timely_changelog.15:42
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db48xwhat was I thinking when I checked this out anonymously?15:44
snowmoonany way to default new app windows ( not dialogs ) to be fullscreen on the 77015:46
zerojaytimely_changelog: Aww, the Maemo bugzilla doesn't inline image attachments. ;/15:47
zerojaytimely_changelog: 2148 if you want to throw in the evil Next milestone.15:48
zerojayThe N810 release is going to be a fun time on Bugzilla.15:50
zerojayTons of shit to do, check, verify...15:50
timely_changelogyou assume someone will do a decent job of resolving bugs15:50
timely_changelogis tha reasonable?15:50
zerojayConsidering how many open bugs there are, probably not.15:50
JaffaHistorical evidence would not suggest it is something Nokia engineers/QA will do.15:51
zerojayI'd do it, but I'm not Nokia and I don't want my wrist slapped for doing so.15:51
timely_changelogzerojay: talk to quim15:52
timely_changelogthey recently undid my effors to grant editbugs15:52
timely_changelogexplain you know what you're doing15:52
JaffaNo, I think it's exactly the kind of thing the community should do if Nokia aren't going to.15:52
JaffaAh, but that's dependent on still having editbugs.15:52
zerojayI have editbugs.15:52
timely_changelogright :(15:52
timely_changelogoh good15:52
timely_changelogbecause someone said they removed most of those bits15:52
zerojayYeah, I still have it.15:53
timely_changeloganyway, i'd suggest contacting quim to make sure he's ok w/ it15:53
zerojayYeah, of course.15:53
timely_changeloghe absolutely should be, but...15:53
db48xwhat would they get out of doing that?15:53
timely_changeloganyway, i need to talk to quim about enabling milestones15:53
zerojaydb48x: Cleaner bugzilla helps everyone.15:53
db48xno, what would they get out of removing editbugs from a bunch of accounts?15:54
zerojayI guess one of my previous bugs might have scared them into doing it.15:54
timely_changelogwell, no15:54
timely_changelognot sure15:54
timely_changelogsince the case in question was a nokian15:54
timely_changelogand hence it shouldn't have :)15:55
zerojayWell, maybe it woke them up to the possibility.15:55
timely_changelogand they were at work, there's no way for them not to be able to figure out he's a nokian15:55
timely_changelogyour bugs are definitely driving some of the pieces15:55
timely_changelogbtw, jaffa/zerojay/someone15:55
timely_changelogany idea how to look at other people's profiles in
JaffaI was wondering that too, I assume it's supposed to be possible.15:56
zerojayI haven't seen anything, but i haven't looked much yet.15:56
timely_changelogif you can guess the username15:56
timely_changelogyou can:15:56
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JaffaRight. But no search?15:56
zerojaytimely_changelog: I just hope my bugs are driving something positive.15:56
timely_changelogjaffa: i certainly haven't found it15:57
timely_changelogzerojay: drive everyone to use ohloh !15:57
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* Jaffa likes timely_changelog 's new changelog. Definitely encouraging to see that level of feedback and also encourages more raising of good bugs (IMHO)15:57
* Jaffa saw a ref to ohloh on his Maemo profile page. What is it?15:57
db48xbeen a while since I looked at ohloh15:58
zerojaytimely_changelog: Ohloh's developer specific though, isn't it?15:58
timely_changelogload the link from mine
timely_changelogzerojay: well, mostly, i suppose15:58
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timely_changelogbut you can just sign up and select stacks15:58
timely_changelogwhich basically is a way of saying what you use15:58
zerojayWhere's this new changelog?15:58
timely_changelogit's unfinished/unpublished15:58
timely_changelogit's in the same style as browser/news/4 and will be browser/news/915:58
timely_changelogbut it's a few hundred lines from done15:59
timely_changelogthere's not much point in collecting feedback on it atm15:59
zerojayWell, anything that gives us more information can't be bad.15:59
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timely_changelogServer Error15:59
timely_changelogError 50015:59
timely_changelogSun, 21 Oct 2007 15:59:42 +030015:59
timely_changelogApache/2.2.3 (Debian) DAV/2 PHP/5.2.0-8+etch7 mod_ssl/2.2.3 OpenSSL/0.9.8c Midgard/1.8.415:59
db48xheh, I tried to edit my profile and was told I don't have the right permissions16:00
timely_changelogtry loading:16:00
timely_changelogdb48x: lol16:00
jumpulait does that sometimes16:00
jumpulatry shift+reload?16:00
timely_changelogfrom that page, hover over the midguard bar [page]16:00
timely_changelogthen click move16:00
timely_changelogjumpula: this action is designed to fail16:00
JaffaBang :)16:00
timely_changelogsomeone file a bug? :)16:00
timely_changelog(just one, coordinate, no dupes needed...)16:01
timely_changelogjumpula: i'm evil when i'm not busy16:01
jumpulatimely_changelog: perhaps. but anyway, if you want your profile page now, it's worth to try.16:01
timely_changelogwant it?16:02
timely_changelogi was just trying to break things16:02
timely_changelogi already have a profile page16:02
timely_changelogdb48x is the one who can't edit his16:02
jumpulayeah. but you're the one that commented the action will fail.16:02
alteregoIs the N810 case hard or soft?16:03
timely_changelogthe action is  nonsensical16:03
db48xoh, you mean that floating bar thingy16:03
db48xI had stopped seeing that16:03
timely_changelogalterego: same soft case as n80016:03
timely_changelogdifferent color16:03
jumpulatimely_changelog: does it matter if it gets you the thing you want?16:03
alteregoOoo .. What color?16:03
alteregoMy N800 case is well worn O_O16:04
timely_changelogjumpula: i'm looking for things that break16:04
timely_changelogwhat i wanted was something that broke16:04
timely_changelogi got it16:04
zerojayAnyone already filing that midgard bug?16:04
* timely_changelog goes back to trac/svn16:04
timely_changelogzerojay: i think i'll send you a shirt at the end of the month16:06
timely_changelogfriend of :)16:06
JaffaGotta count towards an N810 discount :)16:07
* alterego gets back to libosso hacking.16:07
zerojayzerojay: I'd appreciate that. heh.. I'll wear it to work and surprise a few people. "What? You mean there are OTHER bugzillas?"16:07
zerojayJaffa: Hah, I hope. A friend of mine said he'll straight buy the N810 for me if I get the discount and send him my (battle-scarred) N800.16:08
timely_changelogthe shirt doesn't actually say bugs.maemo.org16:09
timely_changelogit's the one pictured in
timely_changelogthe bugzilla shirts i can get cost money16:10
sp3000(tablet not included.)16:10
zerojayHope you have them in my size. Heh.16:10
timely_changelogi only have XL iirc16:10
timely_changeloghope that's ok16:10
zerojay...I'll make it work. ;P16:10
timely_changelogfwiw, i'm not above giving away n800s16:11
timely_changelog(or other similar hardware)16:11
timely_changelogbut i need a slightly better business reason :)16:11
* alterego could do with a spare :P16:11
zerojaytimely_changelog: Haha.. well, I'll work on that. ;)16:12
zerojayRTCOMM video calling bugs? ;)16:12
timely_changelogi'm browser team, if you want them to send you a device, i can get you a contact :)16:12
alteregoI need a unit I can continually stuff as I'm experimenting with ruby-maemo16:12
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timely_changelogalterego: use quim's grant16:13
alteregoWhat's that?16:13
timely_changelogmost likely devices i'd have would be his leftover's anyway16:13
alteregoquim is a dev right?16:13
timely_changelogtha's what happened last ime around16:13
zerojaytimely_changelog: Sure, but I feel a little weird sending them an e-mail and saying "hey, I filed a few bugs on RTCOMM... send me some shit." ;)16:13
timely_changelogquim's the coordinator16:13
timely_changelogi'm sure he has a better title than that16:13
zerojaytimely_changelog: But sure, send me a contact if you've got one.16:13
alterego"The mad" ?16:14
infobotalterego meant: "The man" ?16:14
timely_changelogzerojay: got the url for the bug where i described roles instead of simply "Nokian"?16:14
timely_changelogpreferably #c format16:14
zerojay2035, I believe.16:14
timely_changelogsomewhere in there16:15
snowmoondamn, why is the UI so heavy... just restarted and it's got 6mb free memory16:15
timely_changelogsearch for "For Quim, this would be something like:"16:15
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snowmoonno wonder the web keeps crashing16:15
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timely_changelog/topic #maemo <snowmoon:#maemo> no wonder the web keeps crashing16:16
timely_changelogbut why is _Monkey crashing?16:16
zerojaytimely_changelog: Filling in my own details to give them less of a reason to say no?16:17
timely_changelogzerojay: sorry, which context are we in?16:17
zerojayI wouldn't be surprised if the box it's running on is killing it's process because it's taking up too much CPU time due to the logs he's parsing now being bigger.16:17
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timely_changelogoh, you mean _Monkey?16:18
zerojayFor that last sentence, yes.16:18
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* timely_changelog sighs16:19
zerojayOh, it's probably just running on Milhouse's home box, never mind.16:19
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timely_changelogthis is so wrong16:19
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* timely_changelog ponders16:22
timely_changelogthis bug is the "should we break acid2" bug16:23
* timely_changelog wonders what the answer is16:23
zerojayI assume the Move command in Midgard's bar is supposed to allow you to move the page to a different URL/place.. I've never used it, so I'm not entirely sure.16:23
timely_changelogexpected results: No crash. Unsure beyond that16:23
zerojayYeah, a more graceful error message or just disabling the command for pages that shouldn't be moved.16:24
timely_changelogwhile i have users around16:24
czrheh timely. nice.16:24
timely_changelogwhich bookmarks do people use?16:24
czrexpected results: it works. <3.16:24
zerojayJust in general?16:24
zerojayczr: I kill people that put that on our bugzilla.16:24
czrzerojay, it seems a logical response to many people :-)16:24
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czrtimely_changelog, lwn.net16:25
czrlxr too.16:25
timely_changelogyou use lxr? which?16:25
zerojaytimely_changelog: Digg, NME, MaxConsole, PS2Dev...16:25
timely_changelogoh wow16:25
timely_changelogczr: have you played w/ ?16:25
czrtimely_changelog, nope. will take a look16:26
timely_changelogsp3000: fwiw i ran into a big error w/ sardine, i think i have a fixed version i can push, but i need to be more careful when i check before pushing16:26
czrtimely_changelog, no useful search though :-)16:27
* alterego gets a little frustrated.16:28
timely_changelogczr: eh?16:28
czrhmm. maybe I misunderstood. it recurses?16:28
* czr tests16:29
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timely_changelogczr: it's something like 8gb of data16:29
timely_changelogsearching from the top w/o a hint is mean16:29
czrhow's the search implemented?16:29
timely_changeloghowever, entering "about:config" into 's search16:30
timely_changelogFound 9 matching lines in 4 files16:30
_Monkeyit has been said that about:config is one16:30
timely_changelogand not such bad hits either16:30
timely_changelog_monkey forget about:config16:30
_Monkeytimely_changelog: I forgot about:config16:30
timely_changelog_monkey about:config is <reply>16:30
_MonkeyOK, timely_changelog.16:30
timely_changelogsearch is still based on glimpse16:31
timely_changelogdb48x: you have a trunk microb, right?16:31
czrnot bad16:31
timely_changelogdoes it pass acid2?16:31
db48xit's kindof old, but I can try it16:31
db48xgotta start up that VM first though16:32
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timely_changelogi'm assuming it's or something16:35
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timely_changelog"storage" isn't in w41\s about:buildconfig16:37
db48xcould be, but make up your mind which channel you want to talk about it in :)16:38
timely_changelogso that means whatever the default microb buildconfig is16:38
zerojayatmasphere: Test failed.16:38
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_Monkeyhello, atmasphere16:38
* timely_changelog likes zerojay16:38
atmaspherejust testing16:38
db48xwell, hrm16:39
db48xI may have broken my trunk build at some point16:39
zerojayatmasphere: A IT2008 version of Xchat?16:39
atmasphereon the N810...16:39
db48xor my scratchbox environment16:39
zerojayAn, I mean.16:39
* timely_changelog really should stock scratchboxes for all the microb releases :(16:40
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zerojayatmasphere: I can't wait to be pounding those chicklets myself soon... I hope.16:40
db48xdoes anyone here VNC into their n800?16:41
atmaspherei have db48x...16:41
db48xatmasphere: did you notice that clicking on the toolbar doesn't do anything over vnc?16:41
zerojayVNC in instead of VNC from?16:41
db48xah, microb is working after all. it just took ages to start up16:42
db48xVNC in16:42
atmaspherenot that i recall ... it was essentially a virtual machine16:42
atmaspherethough my n800 is acting odd after the last firmware now16:42
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atmasphereguess it will be hanging  out anyway with the N810 here ;)16:43
timely_changelogdb48x: do you remember....16:43
db48xtimely_changelog: yes, it passes acid216:43
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timely_changelogoh good16:44
* db48x curses16:45
* db48x needs to shoot someone associated with svn16:45
timely_changelogdo you remember Egghead?16:45
db48x[sbox-SDK_X86: ~/browser] > svn up16:45
db48xsvn: This client is too old to work with working copy ''; please get a newer Subversion client16:45
db48xEgghead? can't say I do16:46
timely_changelog(tvseries<batman>, not store<software>)16:46
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db48xI never really watched that16:47
trunneml_have any buddy here expierens in developing dbus applications?16:48
db48xtimely_changelog: so what about egghead?16:51
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db48xscratchbox is very annoying16:53
zerojayAt least you probably aren't running it in a 32-bit chroot on a 64-bit machine. :/16:55
cosmodb48x: use svn outside scratchbox16:55
czrtrunneml_, hey16:58
_Monkeyhi, trunneml_16:58
czrtrunneml_, just answered to your email16:58
trunneml_oh nice16:58
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czryes :-)16:58
trunneml_okay I will try16:59
trunneml_the mail arrived now17:00
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* czr runs to office. good luck all.17:06
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_Monkeybonjour, lopz17:08
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alteregoI need a test osso service to run >:(17:25
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alteregoYes gone to the office.17:27
infobotalterego meant: He's gone to the office.17:27
trunneml_okay can some one else can help me with a dbus problem?17:28
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alteregotrunneml_, what's that?17:28
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trunneml_I try to write a small app that has a dbus methode17:29
trunneml_I have it running in ubuntu17:29
trunneml_but on the n800 I can not call that function17:29
alteregoAre you initializing osso correctly?17:29
trunneml_the calling app freezes until timeout17:29
trunneml_no osso17:30
trunneml_glibc and dbus17:30
alteregoHow is the program executed console?17:30
alteregoHmm, well I'm not sure I can help you there :)17:30
trunneml_no problem17:30
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trunneml_does anyone know an application that has a dbus methode? Or has a libosso sample for a dbus methode?17:42
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timely_changelogbrowser listens to dbus...17:46
timely_changelogno sure about methodE17:46
zerojay - I guess this is the kind of thing you were talking about earlier, timely_changelog.17:49
zerojayBug apparently fixed on IT2008... no resolution on the bug though.17:49
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zoransome1 used nokia phones to connect 770/800 via bluetooth? I read reviews about 6120.18:05
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script_zoran: 6230i worked fine here18:06
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timely_changelog9300i/9500/e61i all work18:07
zoranscript_, gonna surf for it now18:07
zoranhm, 6120 is under E200 now18:07
zoranand I see report about heating18:07
suihkulokkiheating what?18:09
zoranseems that battery BL-5C makes phone hot18:09
zoranin my region it it 5B, as I see it correctly18:09
suihkulokki6120 does not take BL-5C so whatever you are reading is bullshit18:10
alteregoAnyone recommend a good phone?18:10
alteregoI suppose I really should get a new one and stop being so cheap about it ^_^18:10
timely_changelogi recommend bad phones18:10
suihkulokkibluetooth is standard, pretty much everything except locked phones and windows mobile phones (suprise, microsoft incompatible?) may not work18:10
GeneralAntillesI like my Samsung SGH-A717 for the HSDPA18:11
GeneralAntillesbut short battery life18:11
GeneralAntillesNice and small, though.18:11
GeneralAntillesFairly cheap with contract discounts.18:11
alteregoIdeally I'd like another S60 phone.18:11
alteregoOr S90 ^_^18:11
* suihkulokki has 6120 - tiny, HSPDA and compatible charger with N80018:11
zoranhey, talk about it!18:12
alteregoI have a couple of apps I want to write to integrate the internet tablets with handsets.18:12
GeneralAntilleson-screen caller-id would be pretty cool.18:12
zoranso no warm as blond in a tub?18:12
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zoransuihkulokki, does it have answering machine?18:13
alteregoMeh, I suppose I don't really have the money right now to get a new phone. If I'm gonna be forking out for the N81018:13
alteregoI'll put it on the backburner and maybe do it later on.18:13
suihkulokkizoran: the answering machine is the feature of the phone network18:14
* GeneralAntilles is still maintaining that the N810 is a waste of money. :P18:14
zoranhappy with 6120 or looking for something else?18:14
suihkulokkizoran: battery life could be better (same old song), but other than that I'm happy18:15
* konttori disagrees. n810 is so much better in actual use than n800. 18:15
GeneralAntillesI, for one, don't want to pay $250 for a keyboard.18:16
* konttori was positivelu surprised after testing it out for a few days at home. 18:16
zoransaid should be 9 days at no talk mode18:16
GeneralAntillesPerhaps, but I find the fullscreen thumbboard very usable.18:16
alteregoI suppose $250 for a thumb board and GPS is pretty steap.18:16
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GeneralAntillesLosing the extra storage would be a big hit for me, too.18:17
konttoriYeah, for owners of n800 it may not make perfect sense. For  some it's good, for some its better to stick with n800.18:17
alteregoI just don't like sacrificing screen space for onscreen keyboards. Especially in landscape.18:17
timely_changelogthe reason to buy the n810 is for a screen you can use outside in the sun18:17
GeneralAntillesHehe, and I don't like sacrificing hundreds of dollars.18:17
GeneralAntillesMeh, the N800 screen isn't that bad outside.18:18
timely_changeloghowever, it's impossible for me to test that until May, as there's no Sun scheduled for Heslinki until then18:18
alteregoGeneralAntilles, it's awefull ..18:18
timely_changelogit's worse?18:18
GeneralAntillesI'm in Florida18:18
GeneralAntillesit's not that bad.18:18
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suihkulokkizoran: it's been 3-4 days normal usage for me. YMMV.18:18
zorangood enough18:18
zoranI mostly do not talk :)18:19
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_Monkeysalut, b0unc318:19
zerojayThe screen's barely been a problem for me in the sunlight, but when it is, it's a huge pain in the ass... needing to find shade, etc..18:19
GeneralAntillesEither way, transflective and a keyboard still aren't worth $25018:20
sciboyzerojay, Really? My PDA's and laptop screen completely flush out to green.18:20
sciboyGeneralAntilles, TRANSREFLECTIVE?!@? OMFG WHERE?~18:20
zerojaysciboy: Okay. So?18:20
sciboyzerojay, Just good to know.18:20
zoranI saw some asus 7 intch laptop for 200 something on the net18:21
alteregoIt's been a long time coming,18:21
zerojayI don't care about your PDA... I'm talking about the N800. ;)18:21
sciboyWTF, N810 is transreflective.18:21
GeneralAntilleseee pc18:21
alteregoWhy they didn't put one in the N800 I'll never know ..18:21
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timely_changelogi have to assume it cost money18:21
sciboyI thought they just cranked the brightness.18:21
alteregoEverything costs money.18:21
timely_changelogi'm not sure how much it's worth, and again, i can't know for something like 8 months18:21
GeneralAntillesThe Asus has the same resolution as the ITs at almost twice the diagonal length18:21
timely_changelogbut ask me next june and i'll let you know how much it's worth to me :)18:21
db48xwhy 8 months?18:21
GeneralAntillesWhich makes it a joke.18:21
timely_changelogwhen's May?18:22
timely_changelogthat's when there's Sun, and I want a month to study/review/compare18:22
db48xoh, heh18:22
GeneralAntillesNorthern latitudes and sunlight.18:22
timely_changelogmaybe only 7?18:22
* alterego contemplates going to Australia for a few weeks to test it ;)18:22
derfI'll be in Australia in late January.18:23
sciboyalterego, I can let you know about the N800.18:24
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zoranalterego would trace flight all down to australia over maps18:24
alteregowith 4 hours battery life?18:24
alteregoHah not likely ^_^18:25
zoranI know, you would ask for charger18:25
zoransome carriers has it on the seat side18:25
alteregoThat would be useful.18:25
alteregoThough, the GPS may not work. A lot don't work over 99Mph18:26
celestehthere's a nice solar charger too18:26
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sciboyI can't find any info about the N810 being transreflective.18:26
celestehif you're flying in full sun18:26
zoranI saw in semtember linux journal about using n800 in flight18:26
sciboyEverywhere just says it's 20% brighter than the N800 screen.18:26
alteregosciboy, trust me, it is. Check out planet.maemo.org18:26
celestehfrom soldius18:26
GeneralAntillessciboy, tabletblog.com18:26
celestehthe n800 would have a bluetooth dongle gps, though18:26
GeneralAntillesMy i-blue 737 worked fine on a 737 doing about 480mph. :D18:27
alteregoWell, I've never actually owned a GPS.18:27
alteregoMy dad has a few.18:27
alteregoA couple of Garmins.18:27
flip^sciboy: tabletblog has a photo of it being readable in sunlight18:27
zorandoc sears from lj coupled n800 with bt gps box and made a map of his flight18:28
zoranalso using maps from rep and some proprietary software18:28
zoranprop comes with sd cards18:29
zoranmaps tried to cennect the internet too often18:29
alteregoI'm gonna write a program that periodically turns on GPS for a few minutes. Waits for a fix or timeout, if it's near a recognized wifi zone it'll login and download my email :)18:29
GeneralAntillesI was going to do that on my trip to San Francisco with Maemo Mapper, but didn't want any of the flight attendants freaking out about the GPS. :D18:29
zorannot so easy at 30000 feet18:29
alteregoThen make some gay sound effect.18:29
_Monkeyit has been said that damn is a very sad thing to say18:29
derfWhy would you bother with GPS?18:30
sciboyWell at least I know I have something to upgrade to in the future.18:30
derfIf you're near a recognized WiFi zone, you're near a recognized WiFi zone.18:30
alteregoGood point.18:30
zerojayAnd the N800 already checks e-mail automatically once connected so...18:31
alteregoYes, that I know.18:31
zoranis it good?18:31
alteregoThe N800 email app is a POS18:31
zerojayUnless you want to blacklist some hotspots.18:31
alteregoUsable but crap.18:31
zerojayWorks for me.18:31
derfIt can't even open my inbox.18:31
derfFills up all of RAM and then crashes.18:31
db48xor subscribe to IMAP folders, apparently18:32
zerojayI'm not a heavy e-mail user.. I'm not a business user, so for me, it's more than enough.18:32
alteregoWell, IMAP works for me.18:32
zoranmutt works fine with that18:32
GeneralAntillesIt amazes me that after 2 years we still don't have a decent e-mail app.18:32
zerojayModest is coming.18:32
alteregoWhat's Modest?18:32
_Monkeyhmmm... Modest is an email client built on libtinymail18:32
derfI run my own webmail server.18:32
derfSo I can deal.18:32
alteregoWeb mail is for girls and emos :P18:33
db48xI couldn't imagine using my email client on the n80018:33
GeneralAntillesActually, I haven't touched the e-mail client since OS2005, so it may have gotten better.18:33
derfWeb mail is for people whose work blocks imap ports.18:33
alteregoMutt is the mail client of choice for me :)18:33
zoranI have my system using mutt and getmail18:33
zerojayThe one and only problem I have with the e-mail client is that it sees &s as "s in links. :/18:33
zerojaySo confirmation e-mail links usually don't work unless you edit them manually.18:34
db48xderf: ssh tunnels cure all ills18:35
zerojaydb48x: If you don't mind being fired, sure.18:35
alteregossh is the bestest.18:35
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derfThe point is there are still a lot of situations in which you have access to a web browser, and not much else.18:36
db48xI could never work somewhere that wouldn't let me use ssh18:36
zoranit also has open port, so you could talk to that port in any language yu like18:36
zerojaydb48x: I guess you don't work in tech, electronics or video games then.18:36
alteregoI'm not sure I could work anywhere that hindered my internet access.18:36
db48xI do work in tech18:37
zerojayAt my job, only outbound 80 and 443 is allowed.18:37
alteregoThat's horrible.18:37
zerojaySo I run sshd on 443. ;P18:37
zerojayWell, no... it makes sense.18:37
alteregoI couldn't work under those circumstances.18:37
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db48xI suppose if ssh will get you fired, then you could always tunnel the traffic over dns or something18:37
alteregoAll the fiddling just to get out onto the net.18:37
zerojayWhen you have major security concerns, it's really important.18:37
derfA couple weeks ago I was at a hotel in San Francisco where the only port that worked was 80.18:37
zerojaydb48x: Yeah, that won't work either.18:38
derfI mean, not even 443.18:38
alteregoWow, that _is_ horrible.18:38
alteregoEspecially for someplace as trivial as a hotel :)18:38
zoranso, one box with service on port 80 could make a thing18:38
zerojayYeah, that's shit.18:38
derfI don't think it was intentional... they didn't actually _block_ it.18:38
derfBut you'd get about 4K of data, and then the connection would die off.18:38
derfBut everything on port 80 was blazing fast.18:39
zoranthe rason to have phone and use 810 over it18:39
zerojayI just use my N800 for most other stuff anyways, so I don't care if work blocks stuff.18:39
zerojayOf course, we're not allowed to use wifi either and my N800 technically isn't allowed either, but whatever.18:39
zoranfor linux or what?18:40
db48xyea, I'd go crazy in an environment like that18:40
alteregoWow, that's a lot of core dumps ..18:40
zerojayBut because we're kind of a separate company from Ubisoft now.. the security stuff is less problematic for me anyways.18:41
zerojayUSB ports are completely banned.18:41
zerojayThey're all blocked off on all PCs normally.18:41
alteregoYour job sucks :P18:41
zerojayNot for us because we HAVE to have them to do stuff like load our games on phones, etc..18:41
zerojayIt's the best thing ever, honestly.18:41
zerojayMost of those rules don't apply to my company anyways.18:42
alteregoI want a new job.18:42
zoranyou could always transfer files over port 8018:42
zerojayIt's because Ubi is paranoid about people leaking their games, IP, etc.. and it makes total sense.18:42
alteregoPreferably something involving programming internet tablets :)18:42
Juhazit makes zero sense if http(s) is open18:42
zerojayzoran: Everything is logged and they use huge firewalls with packet inspection and all.18:42
zerojayIt's hardcore stuff.18:42
alteregoMaybe I could start my own business writing software for internet tablets.18:43
zorannokia would like you18:43
zerojaySo would most here.18:43
GeneralAntillesSoftware is one thing we can always use more of.18:44
alteregoWell, once I've got ruby-maemo 1.1 out of the door I'll be able to start writing software :)18:44
zerojayI'd like to see some of the software we already have get better.18:45
alteregoI've got some cool ideas ..18:45
zerojayLike all the game ports that were made.18:45
alteregoI'm not really a big gamer.18:45
zerojayA lot of them were just done quick and never touched again.18:45
alteregoSo I'm not that interested in doing that side of things.18:45
* flip^ really wishes developing for maemo was easier to get into from scratch... i miss the days of writing code, compiling, seeing results :(18:45
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GeneralAntillesThat's what Python is for, no?18:47
alteregoWith any luck ruby-maemo will be out tomorrow.18:47
alteregoI just need a chance to clean some things up and write more documentation.18:47
alteregoI've been working on it non-stop since friday morning O_O18:47
zoranworking on 2006?18:48
flip^I really should get round to learning python, but i'm not impressed with the way they went from 2.4 to 2.5 on maemo, releasing a whole new package rather than upgrading18:48
alteregoYeah, I'm starting to slow down now ..18:48
GeneralAntillesI'm going to guess there was a good reason for it, flip^, though I don't know it. :D18:49
zerojayProbably for the same reason they went to GTK 2.10... more current.18:50
flip^I keep meaning to learn either python or ruby, and the fact that i have a choice there has actually slowed my picking up either18:51
GeneralAntillesI'd go with ruby18:53
GeneralAntillesDon't care for Python18:53
* GeneralAntilles wants his whitespace.18:53
tkowhat good is ruby without rails? *g*18:53
zerojayI can't stand a language where just having whitespace kills everything.18:54
alteregoRuby is a really nice language.18:54
alteregoPersonally I think it's a _lot_ nicer than Python.18:54
GeneralAntillesMost certainly.18:54
Mikhowhat's so nice about it?18:54
zoranperl and python for 770/800 are really winners18:54
flip^what can you actually do with ruby/python though... i mean, when it comes to the crunch, outside api's and documentation, what are they respectively good for doing?18:55
shaprWhatever any programming language can do.18:55
alteregoThey're good at writing programs in.18:55
shaprTuring completeness and all that.18:55
db48xI wonder how hard it would be to get a cl implementation working on the n80018:55
shaprI want Haskell.18:55
derfI don't think you understand the meaning of the word "good".18:55
alteregoI was toying with porting tinyscheme :)18:55
alteregoshapr, do it :)18:55
tkoI just can't be bothered getting annoyed by something like syntax. lisp, python, haskell, braces.. it's just irrelevant18:55
flip^Yes, but php is good for writing whatever prgramming languages can do, but i wouldn't try and write a standalone graphical application in it ... all languages have something they tend to do better at18:56
alteregoWho's annoyed about syntax?18:56
GeneralAntillesYes, shapr, get to work. :P18:56
* flip^ grumps at haskell.... bane of my life18:56
flip^or was anyway18:56
shapralterego: Won't happen today :-)18:56
shaprflip^: Sure, but php was never designed to be a general purpose programming language, ruby/python/perl are/were.18:56
shaprflip^: I've had a Haskell job for a while.. 1.5 years?18:57
zerojayeh.. i'm bored. I guess I'll add screenshots to all my bugs.18:57
alteregoWriting anything in Ruby is fun and easy. It might not be the most efficient implementation but it's fun, and easy. The language stays out of your way and lets you do things how you want to do things.18:57
alteregoThat is why I like ruby.18:57
GeneralAntillesIgnore that.18:57
shapralterego: But each person has a different definition of 'stays out of my way' so different people like different languages.18:57
Mikhosounds like a commercial18:57
zoranruby could be a lot for 770, if some1 has no ext2 partition on mmc18:58
derfEveryone also has a different definition of "how you want to do things".18:58
alteregoSo could Python.18:58
derfAnd generally, for everything I do efficiency is hugely important.18:58
alteregoWhen efficiency is important I write a C extension.18:58
tkoefficiency first, correctness later? ;-)18:59
shaprtko: Are you the tko I used to work with in Tornio?18:59
tkoshapr: no, I'm in Helsinki18:59
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shaprtko: Oh ok.18:59
tkoI might've visited Tornio once. not sure19:00
alteregoHeh, that memorable aye ;)19:00
shaprNot much to see in Tornio.19:00
Mikhothere's a beer factory there19:02
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shaprYeah, I lived right next to it, I got totally sick of the smell of brewing beer.19:04
shaprLapin Kulta19:04
alteregoIf I get this done by the end of this evening. I'm gonna head to the pub and have a few drinks to celebrate :)19:04
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Mikhobeen touring the factory three times :)19:07
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zerojayConsidering how much Nokia mentioned Facebook in their ads and stuff for the N810, you'd think someone would have tested it more.19:11
flip^is it a little dodgy then?19:11
flip^scrabulous was *just* about playable on a n800 i found... very slow though19:11
zerojayThe links Facebook sends in its notification e-mails don't work because the e-mail client sees a & character and replaces it with a " instead.19:12
flip^shapr: you have a haskell *job*? people actually work with that, outside the uni i work at?19:12
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flip^zerojay: what's wrong in the screenshot?19:15
zerojay[12:09] <zerojay> The links Facebook sends in its notification e-mails don't work because the e-mail client sees a & character and replaces it with a " instead.19:16
flip^i see19:16
zerojayThe " you see in the link shouldn't be there. It should be a &.19:16
flip^i've not touched the built in email client in a long time19:16
zerojayWorks fine when you replace it manually.19:16
flip^the lack of imap folder subscriptions made it of little use to me19:16
* flip^ nods19:16
zerojayJust one of those stupid things I want to see fixed before IT2008 goes out the door.19:17
Jitenis there any package installable on n800 that provides simple embeddable html editor? It'd need to be able to add images, bold/italic/underline and tweak font settings.19:18
timely_changelogzerojay: pracically speaking itos2008 is out the door19:18
timely_changelogwhich is why i'm writing relnotes for the browser19:18
zerojaytimely_changelog: Crap.19:18
zerojayThis one is a personal favorite of mine.19:19
timely_changelognote that the mail client has been in maintenance mode for a while19:19
timely_changelogthey had hoped to replace it19:19
timely_changelogare those track numbers?19:20
zerojay187 doesn't fit.. but 188 does. :)19:20
zerojayFucks up at 99+.19:21
timely_changelogvery nice19:21
zerojayThat bug is one of the reasons why I think no one's touched the media player either in a while.19:21
timely_changelogactually, in theory they work on it19:22
timely_changelogin practice, i don't think they have qa who checks the public bugzilla19:22
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zerojayI really should give Mr. Gil a nudge then.19:22
niluth_hi, what kind of file manager does maemo use? Some kind of Nautilus or something custom?19:23
niluth_alright, would it be interesting with a project that integrates Nautilus with Maemo/GMAE?19:25
niluth_(thinking about applying to the N810 developer program)19:25
zerojayPlease, please, please keep Nautilus as far away from our tablets as possible. :~(19:25
zerojayNo. Just crap.19:26
tkoniluth_: traditional file manager isn't too user friendly anyway19:26
zerojayIt's too late for me to beg to keep GTK away from the tablets though. :/19:26
niluth_but if the user interface were customized for small form factors and touch screens?19:27
tkozerojay: you can always use Xlib :)19:27
Jitengtk has it's problems, I agree. Though, considering what I believe are Nokia's goals, there really isn't much choicce.19:27
tkoniluth_: it is, but even still19:27
zerojayJiten: Yeah, I agree. I'm just afraid to see GTK go ahead and dump everything and break everything yet again.19:28
timely_changelogjiten: eventually maybe we can switch to widget based apps19:28
timely_changelogand ditch gtk/glib19:28
niluth_how does the file manager in maemo differ from traditional file managers, such as Nautilus?19:28
Jitenwidget based apps?19:28
timely_changeloghtml, xul, whatever19:28
timely_changelogthings that don't use C(++)19:29
tkotimely_changelog: just make the browser better performing than gtk..19:29
timely_changelogtko: someday...19:29
derf"Someday" the processor will just be significantly faster.19:30
zerojaySomeday in November.19:30
alteregoWell, ARM performance hasn't really changed much.19:30
alteregoThough I did hear about some >1Ghz designs ..19:30
zerojayQuad-cores coming by 2010.19:30
alteregoThat was a long time ago ..19:30
derfIf ARM doesn't improve, Intel and AMD will.19:31
zerojayalterego: They just announced quad-core ARMs running at 1ghz this past week.19:31
* timely_changelog grumbles19:31
alteregoHah, cool.19:31
* timely_changelog hates svn19:31
alteregoI had no idea :)19:31
derfThey've saturated the desktop market, so there's not a lot of other places for them to expand to.19:31
zerojayWon't be ready until 2010, but still.19:31
alteregoI heard about them a few years ago from a friend and ARM.19:31
alteregofriend _at_ ARM.19:32
Jitenwidget based apps would be okay, I guess, as long as I wouldn't have to use javascript with them.19:33
derfI don't know... I'm actually fond of programming my user interfaces with a real programming language.19:34
db48xJiten: what would you prefer to use?19:34
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Jitendb48x: python :)19:36
db48xyou can write a xul app in python19:36
Jitenok, that's good to know.19:36
timely_changelogderf: you must like crashy code19:36
deejoeinfobot: seen arnims19:37
_MonkeyI haven't seen 'arnims', deejoe19:37
infobotdeejoe: i haven't seen 'arnims'19:37
derftimely_changelog: No, I like being competent.19:37
timely_changelogderf: i'm no familiar with that concept19:37
db48xderf: writing in C++ makes you competent? writing in JS makes you incompetent?19:37
derftimely_changelog: I can tell.19:38
db48xor did I confuse two simultaneous conversations?19:38
derfdb48x: I wasn't talking about javascript at all.19:38
pupnikwhat is your question deejoe19:38
derfOr C++, for that matter.19:39
db48xderf: so what's your idea of a 'real' language?19:39
derfI will give you a hint: it is not XML- or SGML-based.19:39
db48xoh, you just mean something other than a declarative 'language' like html or xul19:40
* timely_changelog is confused19:40
timely_changelogso you like the idea of writing lots of really shitty code to generate an inflexible ui in C / Python?19:40
derfYes, that is precisely what I said.19:41
alteregoYou can generate JScript well enough not to need to code in it :)19:41
alteregoMaybe an XUL->glade_xml XSLT stylesheet :)19:41
alteregoYou could use Ruby as the scripting language.19:41
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* db48x yawns19:44
* db48x is tired early today19:44
db48xmaybe it's because I'm having to program in python19:45
alteregoI'm tired, I'm tired of program in C for the past 3 days solid ..19:46
db48xthat would make me tired too19:46
alteregoIt is nice when everything starts to work though :)19:49
db48xyea, I know that feeling19:50
db48xssh key generation is not very fast on an n80019:51
alteregoThat's why I did that on my laptop ;)19:51
Jitenmy n800 was quite warm after generating keys :)19:52
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DRoBeRpepeepepepepeeeee pepeppepepeeeeeee I wanna be sedated.20:01
DRoBeRHello :)20:01
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db48xtimely_changelog: uh, does dump work in microb?20:05
db48xclose function doesn't seem to work either20:08
db48xneither does alert20:08
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db48xoh, alert does20:09
db48xso does close, when called from the urlbar20:10
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snowmoonIf I'm running it2007he does that disable the internal mic?20:18
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db48xman, debugging a script is pretty frustrating with no error console20:23
GeneralAntilles"Bet you can't guess what went wrong! :P"20:26
trunneml_hi can some one help me with dbus-monitor and dbus-send20:26
db48xGeneralAntilles: yea, that's basically what it's doing to me20:26
Jitendb48x: why are you debugging without error console?20:27
zerojayGeneralAntilles: Welcome to my daily life at work. ;)20:29
shaprflip^: Yeah, Haskell jobs aren't so rare.20:29
GeneralAntillesHaha, I can only imagine the pain, zerojay.20:29
zerojayIt becomes trial and error.20:30
zerojayMade worse still if you don't have the phone physically on hand to play with.20:31
GeneralAntillesUrg, "Here, try this and tell me it doesn't work in 24 hours."? :P20:31
zerojayAverage week at work for me.20:32
zerojayE-mail from our publisher... "we have the XXXXX prerelease phone in the office for the week, we want builds."20:32
zerojayMe: "Specs?" Them: "None."20:32
zerojayMe: "Screen size?" Them: "You expect us to count pixels?"20:33
zerojayMe: "YES."20:33
pupnikwork can be nutty like that20:33
zerojayWe fire off a build trying to stick close to norms for that manufacturer's phones.. send builds off, wait a day.20:33
zerojayReceive a bunch of bugs written in very broken english.20:34
zerojay"Pressing 5 key makes text disappear."20:34
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zerojayMe: "You are SCROLLING, you idiot!"20:34
zerojay"Text in box 94 is completely incorrect."20:35
zerojayUm... why?20:35
pupnik"Text in box 94 now incompletely incorrect."20:35
zerojaypupnik: They have a tendancy to surprise you like that, honestly.20:35
pupnikthis reminds me of the famous pilot-mechanic dialogues20:35
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pupnik  pilot bug reports20:36
pupnikP: Target radar hums.20:36
pupnikS: Reprogrammed target radar with lyrics.20:37
zerojayYeah, I remember these.20:37
pupnikP: Evidence of leak on right main landing gear.20:37
pupnikS: Evidence removed.20:37
zerojayIt's very easy to respond cynically.20:38
zerojayThe only reason I don't is because I know it just means they're going to spend the next three days asking what I said.20:38
pupniksucks they don't always give you specs tho20:39
zerojayYeah, that's a pain.20:40
zerojaySend us the screen size and a few other basic things.20:40
zerojayI do backflips if I get a keymap.20:40
pupnikthat's how it goes tho, dealing with bigger companies20:41
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Andy80hi all20:42
pupnikbeen there myself doing software work for autodesk many aeons ago20:42
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zerojayWonder if working for ye olde Nokia would be better.20:44
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alteregoWorking for Nokia would be my dream job :)20:51
alteregoEspecially if it was in Finland .. I could go skiing for cheap :)20:51
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Jitenis it just me or does this gtk.TreeModel just look too complex for what it does to others too?21:02
DRoBeRalterego, one friend went to Finland for his Erasmus. He said that Finnish girls are so hot... haha21:04
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alteregoJiten, that's a side effect of it being written in C. IT is very flexible though and once you understand using it it's quite easy :)21:31
alteregoLike everything I guess ^_^21:31
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Jitenalterego: well, I'm mostly annoyed at the interface being presented as is in pygtk.21:36
alteregoYeah, I don't like the pyGTK interface.21:36
alteregoRuby's is a _lot_ nicer especially signal handling.21:36
alteregoThe people that did the ruby-gnome2 stuff are genius' in my book :)21:37
Jitenpygtk is mostly ok but ... a few things are glaring exceptions.21:38
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alteregoWhat are you working on?21:38
Jitenthis mnemosyne port I've been working on for the last few days21:39
zerojayalterego: I haven't ever played with Ruby before, but your work has me interested in trying it.21:39
Jitenfor some reason ComboBox widget wants me to use TreeStore for the list.21:40
Jitenumm TreeModel21:40
alteregoNot ListStore?21:40
alteregoListStore is a descendant of TreeModel ..21:40
Jitenyes, ListStore I'm using. I guess I'm getting tired when I slip like this.21:41
alteregoTell me about it.21:41
alteregoI'm sick of libosso :)21:41
Jitenanyway, back to figuring out why the list gets populated but every choice is empty.21:41
alteregoand dbus ..21:41
alteregoJiten, have you created a text renderer?21:42
alteregoAnd assigned it to the column?21:42
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alteregoOh wait .. This is a ComboBox .. My bad :)21:42
SE-WilcoMy N800 can't load some URLs at one WiFi site.  Like Community at  Any TCP/IP issues?21:42
Jitenalterego: I'm starting to think I just might have to do that.21:43
alteregoSE-Wilco, sounds more like an issue with your location.21:43
Jitenor then just forget letting glade create this one and create new one with the simplifying functions21:43
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Juhazsounds like cell renderers aren't getting created/set up for some reason21:45
JitenI'm completely baffled at what hoops I have to jump through to get something this simple to work.21:46
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Jitengtk.Combo widget looks pretty much what I want and simple enough but that's deprecated.21:46
Jitenand glade doesn't even list that anywhere.21:47
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Jitenah, now it works, I just had to add a dummy element in the list in glade.21:48
juh0SE-Wilco: buggy wlan-router, check this out
SE-WilcoI can see the main page but Community just keeps saying "Connecting".21:49
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snowmoonSE-Wilco: Works for me21:49
SE-WilcoSame for 'Bugs and features'.  Hard to look for this bug.21:50
Jitenanyway, I want this done so I can get started on trying if I can manage to make usable input method.21:50
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JitenI've got an idea of how to make usable input system with which you can input whole words with one stroke.21:53
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alteregoSounds interesting.21:56
SE-WilcoGrr. Also the lib for Pidgin won't finish downloading into AppMgr.21:58
Jitenyes, it's quite simple really. first assign an angle for each letter, for example 0 for a, 13 for b, 26 for c and so on.21:59
Jitenthen when you want to type a word, you try to draw lines as close to the angles as you can.21:59
Jitenwhen you lift the stylus from the touchscreen, it decodes the input with the assumption that there are some errors. Finds the closest word in it's dictionary that matches.22:00
juh0SE-Wilco: did you try this to solve connection problem? gconftool-2 --set --type int '/system/osso/connectivity/IAP/wlan_sleep_timeout'22:00
Jitencould benefit from predictive text input as well as pattern matching how close the angles are to the ideal angles for different words.22:02
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czrtrunneml_, I'm back now22:05
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eichi__hello, is there a way to make an n800 to a wlan access point? to use umts/hsdpa with handy to n800 and then to laptop(s)22:41
shaprI've seen something like that on the maemo wiki22:42
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konttoriHi guys, ukmp 1.7alpha 7 is now available for testing.22:48
konttoriWorks on n810 as well (need python though)22:48
konttoriIt has been bug fixes as well as new realtime reflection and pointer glow.22:49
konttoriBoth of these will be improved before the 1.7 final, but I would like to get impressions from you guys early on.22:49
konttoriSo, in case you have n800 / n810 and have been using ukmp on it, please test that out and let me know what you think22:50
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m-voeveryone who has a n810 raise their hands! :-)22:51
* konttori raises his hand22:51
* konttori feels lonely22:51
* m-vo raises hand22:51
* tko slaps the nokians22:52
konttoriif you need python installer file, let me know. I can add that to garage.22:53
konttori(for n810 that is)22:53
* timely_changelog gets back from a movie w/ n810 in hand22:53
timely_changelogstardust was good22:53
timely_changelogtoo bad i almost missed it because i couldn't figure out that the movie with the Finnish title that i was looking a was stardust...22:54
konttoripython for n810 install is there22:54
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konttoriIt contains all the needed repos.22:55
konttoristardust was truly great!22:55
konttoriI loved it!22:55
GeneralAntillesOne bug, it doesn't parse em-dashes in my media filenames correction, konttori.22:55
straindAnyone want an easy wiki edit?22:56
m-vokonttori, your .install has lots of bora repositories, that doesn't sound right for a device running chinook (like the n810).22:56
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konttoriwhat is em-dash?22:58
konttorim-vo: yeah, but it seems that to get python installed (there is no final release yet), you need all those repos22:58
m-voA dash that is as wide as a upper case "M".22:59
konttoriahh... So, how do they turn out ? Does it drop them completely?22:59
m-voYes, still doesn't sound right.  I am just pointing out instances of your repository mess.22:59
GeneralAntillesäa? or something like that23:00
GeneralAntillesOnly showed up during loading23:00
GeneralAntillesand I can't seem to pull up the videos section to check the file it was on.23:00
konttorim-vo: what mess? If it depends on something that is only available in bora, then so be it. That is for testing purposes only until nokia is done with the chinook implementation of python23:02
konttoriGeneralAntilles:Hmm... as in nothing happens when you click on the videos link?23:02
m-voIf the python implementation in the bora distribution works for a chinook device, why isn't it in the chinook distribution?23:03
GeneralAntillesOne video comes a quarter of the way onto the left side of the screen23:03
GeneralAntillesbut stays there23:03
GeneralAntillesMusic works fine.23:03
|tbb|what chinook stays for23:03
GeneralAntillesm-vo, probably because the device and the OS aren't released yet.23:03
eichi__maybe with hostapd??23:06
m-vowell, the SDK beta is out already.23:06
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konttorim-vo: the python comes from sardine. The dependencies are in bora.23:07
konttoriso it's almost there now, but not quite.23:07
m-voRight, that's the Sardine mess.  (My fault due to lazyness.)  It should have been rebased on the SDK beta as soon as it came out.  (The alpha SDK was based on Sardine, btw.)23:08
tkowtf? some dependencies that were in bora are missing from chinook?23:08
m-voGeneralAntilles, I blame myself for half of the mess, btw, but I seem to be one of only few people who perceive the current situation as a mess.23:09
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konttoriI think some of the bindings just aren't there yet. e.g. gpsd.23:10
tkoI'm perceiving too many individual messes all round :-/23:10
konttoriso that's why it's not out yet23:10
konttoriand probably why it hasn't been properly fixed to put the dependencies to chinook.23:11
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m-vomaybe, that would fit our usual approach of laying a golden eggs or die trying.23:11
konttorianyway, GeneralAntilles: Did you find the glow effect irritating?23:11
GeneralAntillesNot really, mostly pointless.23:11
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tkom-vo: without the trying part, really23:12
GeneralAntillesLess interesting when it doesn't so much move around as jump from place to place.23:12
konttoriAhh.. Indeed, it is pointless. I'm hoping to add to it to get some wow effect out of it. That point is mostly a stub at the moment23:12
konttoriwaiting for the right content.23:13
GeneralAntillesI would highlight the selected media icon, though.23:13
GeneralAntillesThe reflections on the images look good23:13
GeneralAntillesdon't care for the reflections on the title text, though23:14
GeneralAntillesit mostly just makes it hard to read.23:14
konttoriYou mean that when you click on the music icon, it highlights that? Yeah, I intend to drop that.23:14
konttoriI agree on the title thing. It's waiting for text repositionings23:14
GeneralAntillesAdd a Photoshop glow filter to the icon that's selected.23:14
konttorishould look cooler after the text is repositioned.23:14
konttoriGeneralAntilles: I may drop the icons completely soon.23:15
konttoriSo, I won't add the 'selected item' functionality there for that reason.23:15
konttoribut it is a good point nevertheless23:16
GeneralAntillesRight, right. :)23:16
GeneralAntillesWhat are you replacing the icons with?23:16
* m-vo is uploading sqlite...23:16
m-voerr, "uploading sqlite docs into brain..."23:16
GeneralAntillesAlso, think you could change the transition from overview to selection so that the item you select moves into place in the bottom right corner?23:16
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konttoriI'm adding a view for that .. a 'main menu' of sorts.23:27
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konttorim-vo: how is it going? Did you read about virtual tables? They sound really interesting23:32
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m-vono, not yet.  Manifest types sound great to a fan of dynamic typing like me.23:34
m-voI have no clue about sql, tho.  Have to learn that, too....23:34
pupnik_first thing to learn is when not to use it23:36
pupnik_a two dimensional data-set alone does not justify it23:37
konttoriyeah. As long as you are just using it for simple retrieval from 2d table, hash tables are usually superior to using sql engine for it23:39
pupnik_Seen too much of this attitude: 'you have data?  then you need a RDBMS!'23:39
_MonkeyI haven't seen 'too', pupnik_23:39
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m-vosqlite is not interesting because of sql, but because it has figured out transactions, etc.  Wouldn't want to reimplement all of that just to avoid sql. :)23:39
konttoriBut for storing and sharing, it is really good, even for those 2d tables.23:39
pupnik_i'm not saying anyone here is guilty of misapplying sql :)23:40
konttorinot many even use it to begin with ;)23:41
konttoriNope, seriously, your point is well taken. It is indeed easy to use it for pointless tasks as well and slow down your program because of the overhead.23:41
m-voheh, the sql tutorial starts by explaining SELECT.  But I don't even have a table yet!23:41
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db48xunfortunately you need to know how SELECT works in order to design a table23:42
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db48x(well, designing one table isn't too hard, but the whole set you tables you will need requires that understanding)23:43
m-voyeah, but the tutorial could tell me to how to create a example table.  It's a tutorial, after all.23:44
pupnik_you have to store a few pages of information in brain before you can do anything23:44
m-voIt's actually not a tutorial, just a brief explanation of SQL concepts.... :/23:45
db48xonce you get past the initial hurdles, sql is pretty straight-forward23:45
db48xthe really funny thing is that it was essentially designed as the primary user interface for the database23:46
konttoriTry out this indt guys tutorial on sqlite:
konttoriIt goes pretty quickly though all the simple stuff. easy to test the code.23:46
tkowhy do you want documentation anyway? :)23:47
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inzHmm, I wonder if I should release wordpress 2.3 package for maemo -- upgrade from 2.0.9 is not perfect :/23:48
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_|Nix|_m-vo: Ping! Can I have a variable on the right-hand-side of "Build-Depends:"? You know, like "Depends:" can have "${shlibs:Depends}" on its RHS?23:50
_|Nix|_It'd be useful if I could do that, so I can use the same setup to build on both bora and chinook ...23:50
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suihkulokki_|Nix|_: not really. however you can alternatives like "Build-Depends: foo-bora | foo-chinook"23:51
_|Nix|_suihkulokki: Ooooh! So, it'll build if at least one is present.23:51
_|Nix|_suihkulokki: Is it a short-circuit | ?23:51
_|Nix|_suihkulokki: Cuz, I'm thinking libhildon1-dev | hildon-libs-dev *grin*23:52
suihkulokkishort-circuit ?23:52
tkoIIRC there were three different algorithms for install Build-Depends (at least) :)23:52
_|Nix|_suihkulokki: If it finds the first one it doesn't look for the second one.23:52
suihkulokki_|Nix|_: yep.23:53
tkodpkg-buildpackage just checks the presence of things, not try to install anything23:53
_|Nix|_tko: I know, but I've already done the right things in configure.ac23:53
_|Nix|_tko: However, my control file was good only on Bora.23:53
_|Nix|_tko: But "|" is a simple answer.23:54
_|Nix|_Oooh ... but now I need foo | <nothing> :o)23:54
_|Nix|_So, an optional Build-depends ...23:54
tkowouldn't it be nice if someone had already thought this through while breaking all the APIs...?23:56
m-vo_|Nix|_, foo | <nothing> can be optimized away.23:56
m-voin other words, foo isn't really a build-dependency.23:56
_|Nix|_m-vo: True ...23:56
_|Nix|_I guess I really /do/ want it, it's just that etrunko hasn't added it to chinook-extras yet :o)23:57
_|Nix|_I'm talking about avahi23:57
_|Nix|_... and if I don't have it, I can't build the Bonjour plugin ...23:57
_|Nix|_... and I have it on Bora, but not Chinook ...23:58
m-vojust stick the bora binary into chinook extras.23:58
tkodebian isn't too great in handling optional build dependencies23:58
_|Nix|_m-vo: Not gonna work. Needs a rebuild.23:58
_|Nix|_m-vo: The Bora binary depends on dbus-1-2, whereas Chinook ships dbus-1-323:59
tko_|Nix|_: so rebuild and upload to extras? =)23:59
m-votko, i thnk it's good to be flexible in and strict in debian/control and debian/rules.23:59
inz_|Nix|_, I use libhildon1-dev | hildon-libs-dev and it works fine23:59
_|Nix|_tko: I've asked etrunko to do that. I don't wanna mess with that, because, who knows, I may not have the right environment, etc. He's done it before. I haven't.23:59

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