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| pupnik | http://strlen.com/gfxengine/fisheyequake/compare.html Quake engine with unlimited vield-of-vision | 00:18 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, 360 vision | 00:23 |
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| Fatal | cool, it's the guy who did Amiga E, I used to code utils in that back when my amiga was still working :D | 00:27 |
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| |R | any particular reasons why doing "apt-get install bash" would tell me that packages will be REMOVED and the list is a 100 packages long (basically everything useful i have :P) | 01:12 |
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| * pupnik 's mind is completely blown by 'descent in 4kb' | 01:13 | |
| pupnik | The Omniscent 4K Intro is a demo (using only 4K bytes of disc space) that contains a complete 6DOF engine ala descent from Dirk Kueppers ( kueppers@informatik.uni-koblenz.de ) ftp://ftp.scene.org/mirrors/hornet/demos/1997/s/snc_omna.zip | 01:13 |
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| pupnik | happened to me too |R | 01:14 |
| |R | found a way around it? get the package and --force it? ;) | 01:14 |
| Atarii | descent in 4kb? | 01:15 |
| pupnik | yeah with graphics | 01:15 |
| |R | hehe that demo is slick :) | 01:15 |
| |R | saw it a while back, don't remember when/why... | 01:15 |
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| pupnik | well you could install maybe with dpkg -i | 01:16 |
| pupnik | then apt wouldn't remove anything | 01:16 |
| pupnik | but i'd check first with dpkg-deb -X to see what it will overwrite first | 01:17 |
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| |R | good idea.. :) | 01:17 |
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| Atarii | wish i had media centre, MCEGuru looks sweet | 01:19 |
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| |R | pupnik : is removing the /bin/sh and /bin/bash links to busybox isn't going to screw up things? i've read that people changed their shell on the ITT forum and couldn't boot..? :) | 01:23 |
| |R | (just don't want to reinstall for 4h haha ;) | 01:23 |
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| pupnik | <Harekiet> http://www.256b.com/demo/225 that remains the best :) | 01:23 |
| pupnik | this is not possible | 01:23 |
| pupnik | i do not believe i am seeing this | 01:24 |
| |R | haha :) | 01:24 |
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| pupnik | 012345678901234567890123456789012345678901234567890 <- that times 5 is how many bytes are in that program | 01:29 |
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| Atarii | man thats some hardcore time outs | 03:02 |
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| Atarii | anyone here/ | 03:04 |
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| flip^ | very vaguely, considering its 1am ;) | 03:05 |
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| Atarii | :( | 03:05 |
| flip^ | people seem to be struggling to stay alive tonight | 03:05 |
| Atarii | do u know wat package i need to get ifconfig/iwconfig on maemo? | 03:06 |
| Atarii | or everyone is out as its a friday nite... | 03:06 |
| flip^ | ifconfig is there from the outset, isn't it? | 03:06 |
| Atarii | maybe i need to use the absolute path to it | 03:06 |
| flip^ | one mo | 03:07 |
| flip^ | /sbin/ifconfig i believe | 03:07 |
| Atarii | awesome thanks | 03:08 |
| flip^ | sudo gainroot; cd /; find | grep ifconfig | 03:08 |
| flip^ | magic :) | 03:08 |
| Atarii | :p | 03:09 |
| flip^ | and watch as it spasms over loads if io errors on mmc1 :( | 03:09 |
| flip^ | *of | 03:10 |
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| Blacksitox | bye | 08:14 |
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| zoran | hm, no priv messages on freenode | 08:20 |
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| if | good morning everyone, can I get little help about installing sb2 ? | 09:33 |
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| sujan | Hi all | 11:58 |
| pupnik | hi | 11:58 |
| _Monkey | bonjour, pupnik | 11:58 |
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| * pupnik ponders about how to bring up user dialogue during package install | 12:00 | |
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| kpel | hi guys | 12:04 |
| pupnik | hi | 12:04 |
| pupnik | thanks to Dawnmist for finding how to activate exec on mmc/sd | 12:05 |
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| kpel | pupnik, do u have a url? | 12:06 |
| pupnik | and the guys who wrote the maemo.org/development docs | 12:06 |
| kpel | the devel docs are great. i was looking at them yesterday. | 12:07 |
| pupnik | kpel see /usr/sbin/mmc-mount | 12:08 |
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| czr | does the dhcp-client communicate with dbus on N800? | 12:17 |
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| sujan | Hi | 12:40 |
| kpel | pupnik, thanks | 12:43 |
| kpel | hi sujan | 12:43 |
| sujan | i am facing a problem kpel | 12:43 |
| sujan | I have build a debian package but when i try to install it on N800 , it shows depends on hildon-fmmm,dev-sqlite | 12:44 |
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| sujan | can you please give me a solution? | 12:45 |
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| kpel | sujan, no idea. i am really new to the maemo platform :\ | 12:51 |
| sujan | Its ok, kpel | 12:52 |
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| czr | mornin koen | 12:56 |
| koen | hey czr | 12:57 |
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| czr | anyone have a minimal terminfo for just xterm? | 12:59 |
| pupnik_ | sujan: if the package really doesn't need those, edit the debian/control file to remove those dependencies, then re build | 12:59 |
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| sujan | package need those | 13:00 |
| pupnik | then you need to install them | 13:00 |
| sujan | because I have used sqlite3 | 13:00 |
| sujan | manually in N800? | 13:00 |
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| pupnik | if the packages upon which your app depends are not in your repositories, then yes manually | 13:02 |
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| sujan | Is there any way that it will install dependencies automatically during installation of my package? | 13:02 |
| pupnik | yes you can make your own ftp repository, or submit dependencies to an official repository | 13:04 |
| pupnik | mud-builder? | 13:04 |
| pupnik | mudbuilder? | 13:04 |
| sujan | because I am going to deliver it to somebody, who does not know how to install sqlite or hildon-fmmm | 13:04 |
| pupnik | maybe that could help | 13:04 |
| pupnik | another option would be to add the libraries to your package | 13:05 |
| sujan | ya, adding libraries is better, i think | 13:06 |
| sujan | Can you help me, how can I do that | 13:06 |
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| pupnik | dunno | 13:07 |
| sujan | i have used dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot command to make package | 13:08 |
| sujan | pupnik: Ok Pupnik, thanks for your help | 13:17 |
| pupnik | look in the debian/rules directory | 13:19 |
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| opy | good morning (~ugt) | 14:18 |
| opy | Pupnik : are you here!! | 14:18 |
| pupnik | ya | 14:18 |
| opy | Pupnik : I got error when "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-explicit" in armel . Would you like to give me any solution? | 14:23 |
| opy | dor maemo 2.2 | 14:23 |
| opy | for | 14:23 |
| pupnik | last time i asked you a questino about this you did not answer me | 14:23 |
| pupnik | or maybe i missed your answer | 14:24 |
| pupnik | what is maemo-explicit? | 14:24 |
| czr | pupnik, pseudopackage pulling the closed source binaries from nokia | 14:25 |
| czr | what has replaced kdbusd? | 14:25 |
| pupnik | ah interesting | 14:25 |
| czr | I see that it's not on either N800 nor in 3.2 sdk. | 14:25 |
| pupnik | what happens whtn you apt-cache search maemo-explicit? | 14:25 |
| opy | oh sorry. | 14:26 |
| zuh | czr: Maybe ke-recv? | 14:27 |
| zuh | Though I'm not sure what kdbusd does... | 14:27 |
| czr | it was a light-weight wrapper for kernel -> object/uevents -> dbus | 14:28 |
| opy | it is package installation command from repository for maemo 3.1 | 14:28 |
| czr | (to system dbus) | 14:28 |
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| czr | zuh, I can only see ke-recv-l10n-engb and ke-recv-l10n-mr1 packages in the sdk, am I looking in the right place? | 14:28 |
| czr | (sdk = apt-cache search in sdk) | 14:29 |
| czr | ah, I see two processes/threads of ke-recv running on the device. | 14:29 |
| zuh | I doubt it's in the sdk | 14:29 |
| zuh | since it's pretty device-specific | 14:29 |
| czr | zuh, figures, thanks. | 14:29 |
| czr | is there any spec about the stuff that it puts on dbus? | 14:29 |
| zuh | but it is in the nokia binaries tarball if you really want to ogle at the package (no sources of course) | 14:30 |
| czr | zuh, neh, no source is no good for me | 14:30 |
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| czr | this is enough, I assume the basic role is still the same though? | 14:31 |
| *** koen_ is now known as koen | 14:32 | |
| zuh | Yeah, AFAIK it's just for screaming dbus messages when hw events occur | 14:32 |
| czr | right. will do some research, thanks. | 14:33 |
| zuh | And it's one of those packages that even nokians seem to think that are so trivial that it's silly it's not open source. (and yet it is not...) | 14:33 |
| czr | kdbusd was open in 1.1 (at least) | 14:33 |
| zuh | Or so I remember reading from maemo-devel lists | 14:33 |
| * czr nods | 14:33 | |
| czr | another silly question. what is the role of the dbus-vfs-daemon? it has it's own socket (@/dbus-vfs-daemon/socket-foobar)? | 14:35 |
| zuh | That I don't know | 14:35 |
| opy | Pupnik : I got this W: Couldn't stat source package list http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_gregale_free_binary-arm_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory) | 14:36 |
| opy | W: Couldn't stat source package list http://repository.maemo.org gregale/non-free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_gregale_non-free_binary-arm_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory) for apt-cache showpkg | 14:36 |
| czr | zuh, np :-) | 14:36 |
| czr | hmm. I guess netstat doesn't know about netlink sockets then, meh. | 14:36 |
| zuh | opy: seems like you haven't run 'apt-get update' or it hasn't succeeded | 14:37 |
| opy | I run apt-get update but it hasn't succeeded | 14:41 |
| pupnik | aha now we getting somewhere | 14:43 |
| pupnik | nsswitch | 14:43 |
| czr | hmm. any way to find out all the anonymous pipes in the system and which processes are holding them open? | 14:43 |
| opy | Zuh : after 'apt-get update' i got Hit http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free Packages | 14:43 |
| opy | Hit http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free Release | 14:43 |
| opy | Hit http://repository.maemo.org gregale/non-free Packages | 14:43 |
| opy | Hit http://repository.maemo.org gregale/non-free Release | 14:43 |
| opy | Hit http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free Sources | 14:43 |
| _Monkey | nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 14:43 |
| opy | Ign http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free Release | 14:43 |
| opy | Hit http://repository.maemo.org gregale/non-free Sources | 14:43 |
| opy | Ign http://repository.maemo.org gregale/non-free Release | 14:43 |
| opy | Err http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free Packages | 14:43 |
| pupnik | nsswitch | 14:43 |
| opy | 404 Not Found [IP: 60.254.154.72 80] | 14:43 |
| _Monkey | nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 14:43 |
| opy | Ign http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free Release | 14:43 |
| opy | Err http://repository.maemo.org gregale/non-free Packages | 14:43 |
| pupnik | nsswitch | 14:43 |
| _Monkey | nsswitch is, like, http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 14:43 |
| pupnik | nsswitch | 14:43 |
| _Monkey | nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 14:43 |
| pupnik | nsswitch | 14:43 |
| opy | 404 Not Found [IP: 60.254.154.72 80] | 14:43 |
| _Monkey | nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 14:43 |
| pupnik | nsswitch | 14:43 |
| _Monkey | nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 14:43 |
| opy | Ign http://repository.maemo.org gregale/non-free Release | 14:43 |
| pupnik | nsswitch | 14:43 |
| xand | sigh | 14:43 |
| _Monkey | i think nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 14:43 |
| opy | Get:1 http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free Sources [11.1kB] | 14:43 |
| pupnik | nsswitch | 14:44 |
| opy | Ign http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free Release | 14:44 |
| _Monkey | well, nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 14:44 |
| *** red-zack has quit IRC | 14:44 | |
| opy | Get:2 http://repository.maemo.org gregale/non-free Sources [20B] | 14:44 |
| opy | Ign http://repository.maemo.org gregale/non-free Release | 14:44 |
| pupnik | nsswitch | 14:44 |
| _Monkey | nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 14:44 |
| opy | Fetched 11.1kB in 36s (306B/s) | 14:44 |
| pupnik | nsswitch | 14:44 |
| _Monkey | rumour has it nsswitch is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get | 14:44 |
| opy | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/gregale/free/binary-arm/Packages.gz 404 Not Found [IP: 60.254.154.72 80] | 14:44 |
| xand | opy: do you mind? | 14:44 |
| opy | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/dists/gregale/non-free/binary-arm/Packages.gz 404 Not Found [IP: 60.254.154.72 80] | 14:44 |
| opy | Reading Package Lists... Done | 14:44 |
| opy | W: Couldn't stat source package list http://repository.maemo.org gregale/free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_gregale_free_binary-arm_Packages) - stat (2 No such file or directory) | 14:44 |
| opy | W: Couldn't stat source package list http://repository.maemo.org gregale/non-free Packages (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_gregale_non-free_binary-arm_Packages) - stat (2 No | 14:44 |
| opy | ha ha ha | 14:44 |
| * czr looks at pupnik with an evil glint in his eyes | 14:44 | |
| zuh | Holy copy&paste accident, please don't do that again :) | 14:44 |
| xand | pastebin ffs | 14:44 |
| czr | did anyone notice my question even? :-) | 14:45 |
| czr | (not very maemo/device specific even) | 14:45 |
| opy | pupnik: is it 'hosts: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=scratchbox+nsswitch+apt-get' | 14:46 |
| czr | I had the same snag with 3.2 (and 4.0b) because of feisty having avahi and that pulling mdns NSS module into nsswitch.conf | 14:47 |
| czr | hmm. there doesn't seem to be any interface from the userspace to get the open pipe listing. | 14:53 |
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| pupnik | sorry, looking at ./debian/* and configure/make stuff PISSES ME OFF | 14:58 |
| *** pupnik is now known as pupnikbeer | 14:59 | |
| czr | ok, another question then. is there a package I can install into the ARMEL SDK that contains the necesary kernel headers for the device kernel? | 14:59 |
| czr | (running the latest firmware, so I'm assuming the kernel header packages should be per user-image release, right?) | 15:00 |
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| zuh | If you are talking about N800, rx-34-kernel-headers | 15:08 |
| czr | zuh, yes I am. but how are the differing kernel versions handled then? | 15:09 |
| czr | (case the newest user firmware that fixed the memory card stuff) | 15:10 |
| zuh | I doubt that made any difference on the kernel headers... But you could probably install a specific version of the headers with "apt-get install package=version". | 15:12 |
| czr | zuh, even if apt-cache search kernel-headers only lists 'linux-kernel-headers' and 'rx-34-kernel-headers'? | 15:12 |
| czr | hmm. I'll see shortly | 15:13 |
| zuh | but what differences you are referring to? AFAIK nokia only supports one image at a time (the lates) and the repositories follow that | 15:14 |
| czr | just thinking of writing a module, that would work on N800, that's all :-) | 15:15 |
| czr | I've been out of action since 770 came out, so trying to refresh on stuff that might have changed since. | 15:15 |
| czr | still a bit unsure how the ke-recv interfaces dbus though | 15:17 |
| czr | unless it only opens the dbus connection when there is an event to report | 15:17 |
| czr | let's see. | 15:20 |
| kpel | is the source of the kernel running on N800 available? | 15:22 |
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| zuh | yes, 'apt-get install kernel-source-rx-34' or look in http://repository.maemo.org/pool/bora/free/source/ | 15:24 |
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| kpel | thanks zuh | 15:26 |
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| czr | meh. strace is having problems decoding connect().. | 15:30 |
| Blacksitox | hi :) | 15:31 |
| czr | also, the way that ke-recv interfaces with the kernel is weird :-) | 15:31 |
| czr | it gets an unix stream socket form the kernel and it seems that it gets the messages over that. | 15:32 |
| czr | but I'm having trouble seeing what happens after that. | 15:32 |
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| czr | zuh, I guess the reason why ke-recv is now closed is that it contains binary decoding for the mce stuff coming from the kernel side | 15:39 |
| czr | the old kdbusd didn't (it only forwarded uevents) | 15:39 |
| czr | zuh, the kernel-headers is not kernel-headers as we know it | 16:01 |
| czr | scripts is missing | 16:01 |
| czr | not possible to build modules against it for example. | 16:01 |
| * czr curses silently. | 16:01 | |
| czr | also other stuff missing, like arch-specific Makefile, etc.. | 16:02 |
| alterego | You can download the whole source tree. | 16:07 |
| czr | alterego, that wasn't the point really. | 16:07 |
| czr | alterego, point being: why have a kernel header package if it cannot be used for anything. | 16:09 |
| alterego | Yes, | 16:11 |
| alterego | I understand that | 16:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha, awesome, new firmware and now I can't install rtcom or microb | 16:14 |
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| alterego | Uh-oh | 16:18 |
| alterego | You mean the SDHC kernel update? | 16:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes. | 16:19 |
| alterego | Interesting. They said only that had changed :) | 16:19 |
| alterego | Though .. You shouldn't have had to reflash the whole device .. Just the kernel .. | 16:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was in a reboot-loop | 16:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | so I had to reflash | 16:19 |
| alterego | Oh, nasty | 16:19 |
| alterego | I've never had that. | 16:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not an enjoyable experience. | 16:20 |
| alterego | Well, something similar, but just taking out the battery for a few seconds and then turning it on again fixed it. | 16:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Finally get a grandcentral invite and the N800 stops being functionally useful. <_< | 16:22 |
| alterego | O_o | 16:22 |
| alterego | What's a "Grandcentral invite"? | 16:22 |
| alterego | Is that like meeting the queen? ^_^ | 16:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://grandcentral.com/home/intro | 16:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a callforwarding service from Google | 16:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Caller rings a number they assign you, and it gets forwarded to up to 3 other lines. | 16:23 |
| alterego | Cool. | 16:24 |
| alterego | V0IP? | 16:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I was planning on setting up my Gizmo account with the SIP client | 16:25 |
| alterego | Nice | 16:26 |
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| alterego | Do you have any SDHC cards? I've not bothered updating my N800 yet. | 16:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not yet | 16:26 |
| alterego | Figure I might as well wait until the next proper release. | 16:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | waiting for the 16GB cards to come down. | 16:26 |
| alterego | I've got 2x 2Gb SD cards that are fine for now. | 16:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was going to wait, but the reboot-loop forced me into it | 16:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Evidently Nokia can't roll out a simple kernel patch without breaking everything. . . . :( | 16:27 |
| alterego | :) | 16:27 |
| sx|lappy | huhu | 16:27 |
| alterego | I need to figure out how to setup a PAN between my N800 and a WinXP machine .. | 16:28 |
| alterego | Where the WinXP machine is the host with internet connection sharing .. | 16:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, I guess I'll reflash again without restoring from backup. | 16:30 |
| kpel | alterego, u need to offer the DUN service on the pc if u want to use bluetooth. or use wifi and make the pc the gateway for the n800 | 16:31 |
| alterego | Yeah, no wifi on this particular machine. Hence this trouble. | 16:32 |
| alterego | The BT adapter uses the standard Windows BT stack .. | 16:32 |
| alterego | There doesn't appear to be a way to setup PAN or DUN | 16:32 |
| kpel | has anyone managed to login to maemo from a n800? | 16:32 |
| kpel | alterego, u need extra sw. search for DUN for windows | 16:33 |
| kpel | the stack is not enough, u need the server too. in linux i think it's called dund. | 16:35 |
| alterego | Yeah, I can do it in Linux. | 16:37 |
| alterego | But this is someone elses machine that runs XP homo. | 16:37 |
| kpel | homo indeed ;p | 16:37 |
| czr | human oriented mechanistic obsession? | 16:38 |
| czr | reminds me of the vista advert that I saw (just yesterday). it was way too funny (N800 chocked on the flash video though). | 16:38 |
| czr | (OT & probably quite old: http://www.mikesplanet.net/2007/10/the-vista-commerical-you-will-want-to-see/ ) | 16:39 |
| kpel | alterego, www.magsys.co.uk/dunman | 16:40 |
| kpel | let us know if it works | 16:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, has anybody else with the new firmware been able to install either microb or rtcom? | 16:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Another reflash didn't change the situtation. | 16:49 |
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| zuh | I'm running microb with 4.2007.26-8, dunno if thats "new firmware" as it's pretty old | 16:57 |
| alterego | Hahah | 16:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | "new firmware" is 4.2007.38-2 | 16:59 |
| zuh | hmm, I thought I had the latest... *shrug* | 17:02 |
| czr | anyone managed to succesfully use the kernel-source package to build out of tree modules that load in N800? | 17:05 |
| zuh | o/ | 17:06 |
| zuh | I rebuilt the wlan driver | 17:06 |
| czr | zuh, it's out-of-tree? | 17:06 |
| zuh | yeah | 17:06 |
| czr | hmm. I'm building the kernel now, since it seems that make prepare isn't enough to make the tree proper | 17:06 |
| czr | kbuild complaining about missing modules.symvers | 17:06 |
| czr | and scripts/bin/something missing. | 17:07 |
| czr | whee. lo and behind. the out-of-tree module build snow | 17:07 |
| czr | builds now even. | 17:07 |
| czr | behold even too! | 17:07 |
| czr | "[108952.505798] Hello, world" | 17:08 |
| czr | I still think the kernel-headers package should be fixed so that it would be enough to built out of tree stuff like in any other distro. | 17:09 |
| zuh | As if anything worked on maemo like in any other distro | 17:10 |
| czr | :-) | 17:10 |
| czr | 3.2 isn't as bad as 1.0 though. | 17:10 |
| alterego | Hopefully that aspect is getting better :) | 17:10 |
| czr | fewer snags so far. | 17:10 |
| czr | different snags, but I guess fewer. so far. | 17:10 |
| alterego | I'm getting endless segfaults from cputrans though | 17:11 |
| alterego | I never used to .. Starting to wonder if it's not my system .. | 17:11 |
| czr | of course it's not not your system | 17:11 |
| alterego | :) | 17:11 |
| czr | qemu code quality is perfect. it cannot fail. ever. | 17:11 |
| alterego | Heh | 17:11 |
| zuh | sbrsh ftw | 17:12 |
| zuh | though it fails in certain things too | 17:12 |
| czr | I'm just using ssh to the thing and copying stuff over there when I need to test on the device | 17:12 |
| alterego | Sure, I do a lot of testing on the device. | 17:13 |
| czr | except for stuff that runs in the sdk. | 17:13 |
| alterego | But I'd like to test on my workstation whilst I'm actually developing code. | 17:13 |
| * czr nods | 17:13 | |
| czr | I'd like an open-top bmw | 17:13 |
| alterego | Meh. | 17:13 |
| czr | not that it would be any use here. but still. | 17:13 |
| alterego | :) | 17:14 |
| alterego | So, anyone know whether chinook is going to be IT2008? or 2007-2 ? | 17:14 |
| czr | hmm. at least now the kernel thing is tested. so I'll probably wrote a module that will dump more info about sockets and pipes later in order to find out how all the pieces are related | 17:15 |
| alterego | Any more discovery on the random HTTP server? | 17:15 |
| czr | alterego, didn't work on that | 17:15 |
| alterego | I vaguely remember something about this but I can't think what it is/was .. | 17:15 |
| czr | have more concrete issues to solve atm. | 17:15 |
| czr | like figuring out all the components of d-bus in the device | 17:16 |
| alterego | I'd love that ;) | 17:16 |
| czr | heh | 17:16 |
| alterego | The whole system/session DBus service API would be awesome. | 17:16 |
| czr | also noticed that strace on the device doesn't work properly. | 17:16 |
| czr | doesn't decode all the syscalls properly. | 17:16 |
| czr | and it's already heavily patched by osso | 17:16 |
| alterego | You should post some of this stuff on the mailing lists. I'm sure the folks at nokia would like to see everything working properly and stable ;) | 17:17 |
| czr | heh | 17:17 |
| czr | I might later on, when I get the current stuff out of the way | 17:17 |
| alterego | I completely agree with the linux-headers package issue. I tried compiling fuse and sshfs but obviously couldn't because the package is broken. | 17:17 |
| alterego | I didn't bother investigating it further. Though I may do in the future. | 17:18 |
| alterego | I'm kind of in a rush to get ruby-maemo completely out of the door. | 17:18 |
| czr | you can also throw it out of the window | 17:19 |
| alterego | You like throwing things out of the window don't you ;) | 17:19 |
| czr | alterego, I need to implement couple of tools to aid the research stuff, and I won't have time for that at least for couple of weeks | 17:19 |
| czr | and depending on what I'll find more interesting at that point, can't make promises :-) | 17:20 |
| czr | alterego, it's the fastest solution to most problems most of the time.. | 17:20 |
| alterego | Hah | 17:20 |
| alterego | I'm dreaming that there's svideo out .. | 17:20 |
| alterego | Again something I was going to look into but ruby-maemo is taking over my life right now outside of work ^_^ | 17:21 |
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| *** Gopi is now known as gopi|iPhone | 17:48 | |
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| gopi|iPhone | /join #openmoko | 17:50 |
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| gopi|iPhone | /foo | 17:50 |
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| pupnikbeer | mudbuilder? | 17:57 |
| pupnikbeer | mud-builder? | 17:57 |
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| pupnikbeer | _Monkey, mud-builder is "Maemo Unofficial Debs" - an autobuilder for simple source ports that hosts them in a single repository. http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/index.php Forum at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10279 | 18:00 |
| _Monkey | OK, pupnikbeer. | 18:00 |
| pupnikbeer | _Monkey, mudbuilder is "Maemo Unofficial Debs" - an autobuilder for simple source ports that hosts them in a single repository. http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/index.php Forum at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10279 | 18:01 |
| _Monkey | OK, pupnikbeer. | 18:01 |
| zoran | there is a chance you talk to the bot | 18:01 |
| *** Gray9Mar has quit IRC | 18:03 | |
| pupnikbeer | yes i teach the bot zoran | 18:07 |
| pupnikbeer | normally i do it in privmsg but maybe Jaffa is around to see it | 18:07 |
| pupnikbeer | i would gladly help with documentation but i do not yet understand it | 18:09 |
| zoran | he-he | 18:09 |
| pupnikbeer | maybe it just needs some more 'edge case' handling | 18:09 |
| zoran | what bot, of not a secret? | 18:09 |
| pupnikbeer | _Monkey is a bot | 18:09 |
| pupnikbeer | hi _Monkey | 18:09 |
| pupnikbeer | _Monkey: hi | 18:10 |
| _Monkey | privet, pupnikbeer | 18:10 |
| zoran | no, I meant what is the software? | 18:10 |
| czr | uu, it knows languages too | 18:10 |
| pupnikbeer | mud-builder? | 18:10 |
| _Monkey | mud-builder is "Maemo Unofficial Debs" - an autobuilder for simple source ports that hosts them in a single repository. http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/index.php Forum at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10279 | 18:10 |
| celesteh | _Monkey? | 18:10 |
| _Monkey | celesteh? | 18:10 |
| pupnikbeer | custom made i think | 18:10 |
| celesteh | _Monkey: _Monkey? | 18:10 |
| _Monkey | i am the best programmer in the whole freenode IRC right now | 18:10 |
| celesteh | hahaha | 18:11 |
| zuh | banana? | 18:12 |
| * zuh expected "yes, please" | 18:12 | |
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| alterego | Heh | 18:13 |
| czr | zuh, obviously it's not just any ordinary monkey :-) | 18:13 |
| * Jaffa wakes up | 18:13 | |
| celesteh | _Monkey, banana is something I'd like right now | 18:14 |
| _Monkey | OK, celesteh. | 18:14 |
| zoran | _Monkey, what _Monkey is called _Monkey | 18:14 |
| _Monkey | zoran: wish i knew | 18:14 |
| Jaffa | pupnikbeer: anything in particular you'd like to know? | 18:14 |
| pupnikbeer | You know mud-builder? | 18:15 |
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| * Jaffa *wrote* mud-builder :-) | 18:17 | |
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| alterego | mudbuilder? | 18:17 |
| _Monkey | well, mudbuilder is "Maemo Unofficial Debs" - an autobuilder for simple source ports that hosts them in a single repository. http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/index.php Forum at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10279 | 18:17 |
| pupnikbeer | It tries to download a non-existent source package after i have put the source tarball into build/MYAPP/.build | 18:18 |
| zoran | hm mudbuilder? | 18:18 |
| _Monkey | mudbuilder is "Maemo Unofficial Debs" - an autobuilder for simple source ports that hosts them in a single repository. http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/index.php Forum at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10279 | 18:18 |
| pupnikbeer | and there is no debian source package available | 18:18 |
| zoran | hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm mudbuilder? | 18:18 |
| _Monkey | mudbuilder is "Maemo Unofficial Debs" - an autobuilder for simple source ports that hosts them in a single repository. http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/index.php Forum at http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10279 | 18:18 |
| alterego | Heh | 18:18 |
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| pupnikbeer | Jaffa, so perhaps i should skip the "mud get mycal" step ? | 18:18 |
| zoran | hm n n n n n n n n n n n n mudbuilder? | 18:18 |
| Jaffa | pupnikbeer: I'd need to see the XML file, but it sounds like you're specifying the source type as debian, when it's not. | 18:19 |
| zuh | zoran: You could do that in privmsgs too, you know ;) | 18:19 |
| zoran | :), sorry | 18:19 |
| pupnikbeer | that's right Jaffa - thanks for the info | 18:19 |
| pupnikbeer | what should go into type="" for a local file? | 18:19 |
| Jaffa | Because of the way it works, it's probably best to get it to download the tarball from somewhere. | 18:20 |
| Jaffa | See http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/docs/index.php?id=packageformat for more details | 18:21 |
| Jaffa | In particular, <fetch type="tarball"> | 18:21 |
| Jaffa | You can put a local path outside of the mud tree, or a URL | 18:21 |
| pupnikbeer | thanks! i should have read through that. sorry. | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | No probs, I know the documentation's lacking. | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | And I'm sorry for that. | 18:22 |
| pupnikbeer | i can help when i understand it - thanks for the response | 18:23 |
| Jaffa | Excellent, feel free to ask any question of me at any time, either here, via email direct or on the mud-builder mailing list. | 18:23 |
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| pupnikbeer | mud compile sdlscavenger Failed to run compile on sdlscavenger: Unable to read control: No such file or directory | 18:25 |
| pupnikbeer | the source tree has no debian/control | 18:25 |
| pupnikbeer | should i make one? | 18:25 |
| Jaffa | pupnikbeer: hmm, that suggests that running dh_make on it (should automatically happen after the tarball's been extracted) failed. | 18:25 |
| Jaffa | pupnikbeer: you can make one yourself, but it should create one from the info in the package XML file if not present. | 18:26 |
| pupnikbeer | i manually exctracted the tarball to the .build directory | 18:26 |
| zoran_2 | I'd like to ask how to manage something just mundane in ash: how to get rid od path before the prompt; .profile does not give a result (maemo-hackers' xterm0 | 18:26 |
| pupnikbeer | ok | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | pupnikbeer: you shouldn't need to unpack it yourself into .build | 18:27 |
| pupnikbeer | ok | 18:27 |
| pupnikbeer | just following directions :) | 18:27 |
| pupnikbeer | so i can delete build/sdlscavenger/.build and rerun compile? | 18:28 |
| pupnikbeer | or delete build/sdlscavenger ? | 18:28 |
| pupnikbeer | where does the xml specify location of tarball? | 18:29 |
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| Jaffa | delete build/sdlscavenger, make sure your sdlscavenger.xml has <fetch type="tarball">, specifying the location. | 18:29 |
| Jaffa | Ah, hang on (yes, that bit of the docs is missing ;-)) | 18:29 |
| Jaffa | See packages/vim.xml for an example. | 18:30 |
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| pupnikbeer | ok thanks | 18:30 |
| Jaffa | So you'll want something like file:///home/pupnik/src/mytarball.tar.gz - or, ideally, a pointer to the upstream so it can be built on others' machines. | 18:31 |
| pupnikbeer | okies | 18:31 |
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| pupnikbeer | niceee.. works good | 18:35 |
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| zoran | hm, someone changed prompt in maemo-hackers' xterm, using busybox? | 18:53 |
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| alterego | zoran, yes. | 19:16 |
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| |R | http://atlas.kennesaw.edu/~rmw1202/dope.html <- anyone running this on an n800 and the latest firmware? :) | 19:41 |
| |R | (Dope Wars) | 19:41 |
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| czr | alterego, http://koltsoff.com/pub/hello-n800/ . feedback appreciated | 20:03 |
| disq | cruel world. heh | 20:10 |
| disq | nice doc | 20:11 |
| czr | thanks | 20:11 |
| rlifchitz | czr: great ! | 20:11 |
| czr | probably should post a note about it on the maemo-devel list | 20:11 |
| czr | although that would mean subscribing to the list first :-) | 20:11 |
| rlifchitz | :) | 20:14 |
| disq | you could opt to not receive any mail | 20:14 |
| |R | W: GPG error: http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com bora Release: The following signatures were invalid: BADSIG CBFC2BECC6903E72 Nokia Internet Tablet Archive Automatic Signing Key <integration@maemo.org> | 20:14 |
| czr | nah, might as well sub | 20:14 |
| disq | it sucks anyway you say gstreamer==poo and suddenly all nokia chaps jump on you | 20:14 |
| |R | any reasons why i would now be getting this? :/ | 20:14 |
| disq | i sometimes get that too | 20:14 |
| czr | disq, you say <insert any open source project with significant effort investment>==poo, and suddenly.. well, you know :-) | 20:15 |
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| |R | it blocks the application manager from instaling thing as it can't update the list ... i've put the lines in source.list in commentary for now but ... well :) | 20:15 |
| disq | :P | 20:16 |
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| * czr remembers asking all the wrong questions on GTK+ irc channel | 20:16 | |
| czr | and I didn't even use the p word, mind you. | 20:17 |
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| alterego | penis? | 20:20 |
| czr | if that is the first p-word that pops into your mind when speaking about GTK+, then.. well.. can't blame you :-) | 20:20 |
| disq | gtk+.. and p.. PObject? no, that's not it | 20:21 |
| disq | pirates? arrrrr. no, i don't think so | 20:22 |
| czr | hmm. I wonder if it would make sense to make a class abstration for PO-files. | 20:22 |
| czr | POObject. | 20:22 |
| disq | lol. | 20:22 |
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| |R | anyone still has a mirror for the rdesktop 0.2 package? ehore's one is dead :| | 20:25 |
| disq | maemo garage? | 20:27 |
| disq | why 0.2? | 20:27 |
| |R | disq : the link is dead there... i only found a link by google | 20:27 |
| |R | but now that server is dead too | 20:27 |
| |R | http://www.ehore.com/apps/it2006/rdesktop_0.2_armel.deb | 20:27 |
| |R | (doesn't work) | 20:28 |
| disq | why not install https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1052/rdesktop_0.4_armel.deb | 20:28 |
| |R | good question :P | 20:28 |
| disq | should work just fine on it2006 | 20:28 |
| |R | i'm on 2007 here though | 20:28 |
| disq | should work even better | 20:29 |
| |R | ok then, cool, thanks, where did you find it ? in 2007 it only linked to 0.1 and in 2006 to 0.3a weird! | 20:29 |
| disq | where, in maemo.org? | 20:30 |
| |R | yep? | 20:30 |
| |R | oh damn | 20:30 |
| |R | ok i get it.. maemo.org doesn't search the same thing as garage! | 20:31 |
| |R | that's a bit odd :P | 20:31 |
| disq | weird | 20:31 |
| |R | sorry ;) | 20:31 |
| |R | next time i'll try both :) | 20:31 |
| disq | nope, maemo.org says 0.3a. though it will install the latest since it's installing from the repositories (in this case, 0.4) | 20:31 |
| alterego | czr, looks good. | 20:31 |
| |R | ok :) | 20:31 |
| * czr nods appreciatively at alterego | 20:32 | |
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| czr | damn the text layout engine in opera is crappy | 20:55 |
| czr | or maybe the CSS support is "wanting". | 20:55 |
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| zerojay | Opera's pretty old now. | 20:58 |
| zerojay | 8.5 | 20:58 |
| zerojay | I think that's like.. two or three years old. | 20:59 |
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| czr | I'd assumed that N800 would ship with something more recent then | 20:59 |
| * czr shrugs | 20:59 | |
| zerojay | Until recently, it was the latest mobile version of Opera. | 21:00 |
| zerojay | Install Microb then. | 21:00 |
| zerojay | Nice and bleeding edge. | 21:00 |
| czr | someone was complaining just today that it's not possible to install it with the newest fw | 21:00 |
| zerojay | I was able to install it just fine. | 21:01 |
| czr | but maybe I'll try it out later, I don't use N800 much anyway, just wanted to see what my text-heavy page looks on it | 21:01 |
| czr | oh, ok. user error then :-) | 21:01 |
| zerojay | Maybe, maybe not. | 21:01 |
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| czr | hmm. I created a account on maemo.org, got redirected to garage.maemo.org (which works fine). However, maemo.org doesn't want me to login anyway. any hints? | 21:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | zerojay, microb worked for you on the latest firmware? | 21:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I haven't had any luck | 21:28 |
| zerojay | Yep. | 21:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | it seems like the meta-package is missing. | 21:28 |
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| yetihwelttil | hi, does anyone know if the webcam in the N800 can be used by flash for things such as direct upload on youtube? | 22:39 |
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| pupnik | maybe | 22:42 |
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| flip^ | i guess the answer would be "if someone made it happen, then yes" | 22:44 |
| flip^ | but someone's gotta want to code it first | 22:44 |
| flip^ | and no one wants to code for the n800's sucky camera | 22:44 |
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| Atarii | wat megapixel is it? | 22:45 |
| yetihwelttil | heh | 22:45 |
| flip^ | 320x200? | 22:45 |
| yetihwelttil | yeah, i saw some photos from it and it was pretty noisy and.. horrible | 22:45 |
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| pupnik | are you comparing it to other micro cameras? | 22:45 |
| flip^ | it's a nice little novelty feature, possibly ok for something like skype, but that's as far as it goes... "ok" | 22:45 |
| pupnik | or real cameras? | 22:45 |
| yetihwelttil | to most micro cameras | 22:45 |
| flip^ | the low quality camera on my N95 is better ;) | 22:46 |
| pupnik | ok | 22:46 |
| yetihwelttil | i'm just thinking it would be neat to be able to do flash based video streaming etc via it | 22:46 |
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| zerojay | The camera's not very good, but it works well enough for my needs. | 22:47 |
| zerojay | yetihwelttil: And no, the camera isn't detected by Flash. | 22:47 |
| yetihwelttil | aww | 22:47 |
| * flip^ should really try using the camera for something osmetime | 22:48 | |
| zerojay | yetihwelttil: You'll have to bother Adobe about that. | 22:48 |
| yetihwelttil | that could be challenging :P | 22:48 |
| * flip^ wants a jdk on his n800 :( | 22:49 | |
| zerojay | Build it then. | 22:49 |
| zerojay | It's not like it isn't available. | 22:51 |
| flip^ | well, it's not much use without a jre as well tbh, and that would be a lot of effort | 22:51 |
| pupnik | i want the adobe employee who decided postscript should become non-text to get pancreatic cancer | 22:51 |
| zerojay | There is a jre. | 22:51 |
| flip^ | yeah, i heard it's not exactly 100% yet | 22:51 |
| zerojay | If all you want to do is run Java apps, it'll work. | 22:51 |
| flip^ | and i'm only really starting out on getting myself a dev environment for maemo anyway... just copying the vmware appliance to my laptop as we speak in fact | 22:51 |
| pupnik | you used to be able to parse postscript with unix tools - sed/awk/perl | 22:51 |
| zerojay | Don't expect it to work in the browser or with any gui elements though | 22:51 |
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| zerojay | You can check out Jalimo or try helping out with some fixes on PhoneME Advance's port to the N800. | 22:54 |
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| zerojay | Honestly, I don't really see much of a use for Java anyways. | 22:55 |
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| zerojay | And what a horrible choice for use in small embedded devices, really. | 22:55 |
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| flip^ | Java is useful because its portable without recompiling, and its what I know.... used it plenty of times in places I've worked, so there's clearly demand | 22:58 |
| zerojay | It's what I use at work as well. | 22:59 |
| zerojay | Unfortunately. | 22:59 |
| flip^ | I do more stuff with php these days tbh, but occasionally java has its uses | 23:00 |
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| flip^ | wanting to play with maemo stuff leaves me fearing touching C++ again mind | 23:00 |
| zerojay | I'd much rather be doing that than Java. | 23:00 |
| zerojay | Especially on cell phones. | 23:01 |
| zerojay | A hell of a lot nicer than trusting that the JVM's garbage collector even works. | 23:01 |
| flip^ | well, maybe... but all of my C/C++ work has been working on the platform I'm compiling for, often working with other people's code... this is the first time I've had a desire to really try something like this | 23:02 |
| flip^ | the gc tends to be pretty reasonable these days ;) | 23:02 |
| zerojay | Don't be too sure about that. | 23:03 |
| flip^ | Well, it collects the garbage I create happily enough generally ;) | 23:03 |
| zerojay | At least not on the different JVMs I have to work with. | 23:03 |
| flip^ | well, that may be true :) | 23:03 |
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| zerojay | Wouldn't be so bad if they all used the same one, but they don't. | 23:04 |
| zerojay | I hope the open sourcing of Java fixes that in the future. | 23:04 |
| czr | I don't ever recall seeing a bytecode compiled java program run the same way on different devices/jvms | 23:04 |
| flip^ | the only language I had any real success with on a mobile device was OPL, years ago ;) | 23:04 |
| czr | unless they are tested specifically across multiple environments | 23:04 |
| czr | and even then it's just "meh" after "meh". | 23:05 |
| zerojay | I work on mobile games. | 23:05 |
| flip^ | any i might have heard of? | 23:05 |
| zerojay | So.. getting it to work across everything is kind of my job. | 23:05 |
| czr | zerojay, so you know what I'm talking about :-) | 23:05 |
| zerojay | Probably not, unless you're a 16 year old girl. | 23:05 |
| zerojay | czr: I know the pain all too well. | 23:05 |
| flip^ | nah, I definitely lack every quality needed to be a 16 year old girl | 23:06 |
| czr | I got the sense to get out of java when it was still 1.0/1.1ish | 23:06 |
| czr | (although I got out of pretty much everything back then) | 23:06 |
| zerojay | I want out of mobile so bad. | 23:06 |
| zerojay | Thankfully, we're starting work on console games. | 23:06 |
| czr | at least there's a limited number of them | 23:07 |
| czr | consoles I mean. | 23:07 |
| flip^ | and much higher expectations from the audience | 23:07 |
| zerojay | Yeah.. 2 or 3 instead of 2 or 3 hundred. | 23:07 |
| zerojay | What sucks about mobile is that the carriers have such a strong say in what comes out and what doesn't. | 23:08 |
| pupnik | zerojay: in mobile, what portion of development budget goes to graphics and sound vs programming? | 23:08 |
| zerojay | If you are making an ambitious game and you know only high end phones will run it.. Sprint will tell you to take a hike if it doesn't run on their top 25 selling models... which are of course all the cheapest phones they have. | 23:09 |
| zerojay | In mobile, sound usually gets very little. | 23:09 |
| zerojay | Mainly because the phones still can't handle some basic shit like playing two sounds at a time or even looping. | 23:09 |
| pupnik | heh | 23:10 |
| zerojay | Most of the graphics are done in preproduction. Maybe a month tops unless you've got some major changes. | 23:10 |
| flip^ | I like to play games in quiet places anyway ;) | 23:10 |
| pupnik | it is a vague question sorry | 23:10 |
| zerojay | Programming takes up the most... even for a small ass game, we might have 3 guys working on it for 8 months. | 23:10 |
| zerojay | And that's just for our first master. | 23:11 |
| zerojay | Add another two or three months with 10 guys for porting to other phones. | 23:11 |
| pupnik | eenteresting :) | 23:11 |
| zerojay | Thankfully, because of the way things work, most of the time we can have a build working on a phone within 10 minutes. | 23:11 |
| zerojay | Unless it's a real shitbox. | 23:11 |
| zerojay | There are times where our publisher says "we've got phone X here as a prerelease... give us a build!" | 23:12 |
| zerojay | And they don't give us even basic specs. | 23:12 |
| zerojay | We have to try making the builds completely blindly. | 23:12 |
| zerojay | And wait a day for the people on the other side of the planet to tell us if we guessed wrong. | 23:13 |
| zerojay | So.. you've got something like 300 phones to port your game to. | 23:13 |
| zerojay | In 13 languages. | 23:13 |
| zerojay | For 15 operators. | 23:14 |
| zerojay | Each of which has their own wishlist. | 23:14 |
| zerojay | Or requirements. | 23:14 |
| zerojay | Telefonica (Spain) requires us to have an option advertizing other games, for example. | 23:14 |
| zerojay | Or just showing people how to get more games. | 23:14 |
| pupnik | big guy pushing little guy around | 23:15 |
| pupnik | happened that way when i wrote stuff for a company that made stuff for a biggg company | 23:16 |
| zerojay | It also doesn't help that our publisher gives the carriers completely non-sensical deadlines. | 23:16 |
| Atarii | zerojay wat company do u work for? | 23:16 |
| pupnik | government games | 23:17 |
| Atarii | :o | 23:17 |
| zerojay | Because this is being logged publically, I don't think I'll be saying that here. | 23:17 |
| Atarii | k | 23:17 |
| zerojay | A small project from one of the largest game companies out there. | 23:17 |
| zerojay | Well, we're not so small now. | 23:17 |
| zerojay | 3 offices. | 23:17 |
| zerojay | 100ish people. | 23:17 |
| czr | ah. you are the people behind nethack! | 23:17 |
| zerojay | Hahaha. | 23:17 |
| pupnik | that's a good size - don't get much bigger | 23:17 |
| zerojay | My office is already too big. | 23:18 |
| zerojay | 76 people or so. | 23:18 |
| pupnik | for a specific type of company | 23:18 |
| zerojay | When I started, there was about 15. | 23:18 |
| pupnik | nice | 23:18 |
| zerojay | Felt very much like a family atmosphere. | 23:19 |
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| zerojay | Nowadays.. not so much. Lots more people that don't really want to do well.. they just want to have something nice to put on their resume. | 23:19 |
| czr | it get much worse after 100 though | 23:20 |
| zerojay | Yeah.. that's what I'm afraid of. | 23:21 |
| czr | slow degradation to about 200, after that you start to read emails from people you've never met, and are likely not to meet. | 23:21 |
| czr | and that's where all the "not my problem" stuff starts to happen. | 23:21 |
| zerojay | Oh, I already do that all the time. | 23:21 |
| czr | since people stop being socially responsible and such | 23:21 |
| czr | well, obviously since you have branches around the world, but you get my meaning I hope | 23:22 |
| zerojay | Yeah. | 23:22 |
| pupnik | well lets help more young idealistic people get into game programming | 23:22 |
| zerojay | About 25 coworkers coming in for Guitar Hero 3 night... not bad. | 23:22 |
| pupnik | otherwise there won't be anyone for the suits to rape and abuse | 23:22 |
| czr | zerojay, heh | 23:23 |
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| pupnik | and without the idealistic younguns with energy, the whole game collapses | 23:23 |
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| * czr wouldn't be so sure about that | 23:24 | |
| czr | most younglings lack perspective. | 23:25 |
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| czr | not saying that older people have perspective either, but the odds are in their favour. | 23:26 |
| pupnik | i need to find more 1920s music | 23:26 |
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| ZenGeist | hi all | 23:28 |
| ZenGeist | i want to install rtcomm | 23:28 |
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| ZenGeist | but I can not do this because of dependences :( | 23:28 |
| ZenGeist | evolution-data-server, but it is installed already | 23:28 |
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