IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2007-09-05

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pupnikstrange monkey didn't respond to that00:30
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_Monkeymultiboot is probably "LILO supreme being - 5th element - protect *you*"
odivHm. I can't seem to install osso-xterm. Says I don't have some required packages (including some libraries). Did I miss something?00:32
odivThis is on my 770, os200600:32
pupnikexactly which osso-xterm are you installing?00:39
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odivlet me check.00:45
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odivtrying again.01:02
pupnikbora is not for it200601:02
odivI probably added the wrong repository. thanks.01:03
odivor catalogue, or whatever.01:03
pupnikyou want mistral and gregale repos01:03
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_Monkeyrepositories are not just a job, but an adventure!  Add some for big win!
odivYeah, I had the bora hacker one on there by accident.01:05
odivNow I just have to wait for my 2gb rs-mmc card to come.01:09
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pupnikodiv: do you have a keyboard for the 770?01:16
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odivnah, not yet.01:21
odivchecking ebay, might go with one of those iGos.01:21
TonyMaroodiv:  I got the Think Outside "universal" and other than the fact it weighs twice what my Nokia does, I love it.01:25
onionnow what.. wlan scanning works only if device is flat on the table01:27
odivYeah, looking at those. How much did you pay?01:28
TonyMaroodiv:  $76 + ship:01:29
TonyMaroIt's got a stainless steel outside, and a nice zipper case for it.  Feels very solid.01:30
TonyMaroCompany bought, so I wasn't too worried about the price ;-)01:30
TonyMaroI understand you can get drivers to make the HP Ipaq keyboards work.01:30
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TonyMarobut this think outside worked first try01:31
rcknightTonyMaro: how does it work holding the nokia? Can you adjust any?01:35
TonyMarorcknight:  I don't use the stand - I use the Nokia's.  The stand stores in the back of the keyboard, and I've only taken it out once.01:36
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TonyMarorcknight:  trying it now01:36
TonyMaroSeems to be only a 45 degree prop01:37
rcknightyou have 770 or 800?01:38
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TonyMaro800.  I'll post a pic of the stand in a second01:38
TonyMaroGotta BT it off my phone first01:39
rcknightok. thanks,01:39
* rcknight has 770.01:39
TonyMaroThat's odd... neither of my mmc cards are showing in the file explorer.  Uhoh.01:41
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odivI wish my 770 had ports on the side like an 800.01:41
odivah well.01:41
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TonyMarorcknight:  Here ya go, a really bad pic, but shows the stand:01:43
TonyMaromy leather case has a stand built in, which is what my nokia is propped with01:44
TonyMaroactually I have the stand backwards from the orientation of my nokia in that pic01:44
TonyMarothe two pins sticking up would rest on the back of the Nokia, not the flat part.01:44
TonyMaroThe front of the stand is a soft rubber with dimples in it to prevent slippage.01:45
odivSo what indispensable things do you guys do with these?01:45
TonyMaroodiv: Play games?01:45
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TonyMaroI also wrote a nice Bible + Book of Mormon study application for it.01:46
TonyMarothat's really what mine gets used for most - reading.01:46
pupnikhey TonyMaro nice job on that game01:47
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TonyMaropupnik:  Thanks!01:48
pupnikAre you more interested in making it like a roguelike, or a plot-driven RPG?01:49
TonyMaroPlot driven01:49
TonyMarovery "Bard's Tale"-ish01:49
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pupnikWell keep at it - you probably won't get too much feedback early on.  The portion of the community into gaming is not very large.01:51
odivYeah, I plan to use mine for reading, mostly.01:52
TonyMarorcknight:  Hey, here's 2 more pics for ya:
odivI have a palm lifedrive that I was reading on before this.01:52
odivI wish there were buttons on both sides of the 770 though.01:52
odivah well.01:53
pupnikodiv did i show you my mockup of a tablet with that?01:53
odivIt seems a little more akward than the palm to hold while reading because of button placement. I might just not be used to it yet.01:53
TonyMaroI'm all about making interfaces that don't require the stylus, and barely rely on the buttons.01:53
TonyMaroThummim has two screen based buttons for forward / backward.01:53
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TonyMaroon the right side01:53
TonyMaroyou can use those instead of the hardware button01:54
TonyMaroI'll also let you open any plain text document for reading, and support bookmarks and highlighting for them.01:54
TonyMaroGeeze my RAZR takes some horrible pictures.01:56
TonyMaroYou can't get them to not smear for anything01:57
pupnikpics of an lcd screen - or in general?01:57
TonyMaroin general01:57
TonyMarolooking at those keyboard pics I just posted showed just how bad it is01:57
TonyMaroand I reduced those from the original res.01:57
TonyMaroI'll never buy another RAZR.  I got 6 for us, and every one of us hate them.01:57
pupnikwhat else is suboptimal?01:58
TonyMaroThe darn keypad... every person who has one complains they misdial all the time.01:58
odivand I'm done work.01:58
odivThanks again for the help.01:58
pupnikok - cheers01:58
TonyMarohave a nice night01:58
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TonyMaropupnik:  Not to mention, they required encrypted games, you can't install any freeware software on it, or buy from a third party other than your carrier.01:59
pupnikhow is dialing on that flat number pad?02:00
pupnikthere's a very cheap benq that copies the razr design - similar pad02:00
TonyMaropupnik:  Like I just stated - we all hate the number pad.  You'd think the buttons were big enough to hit, but I'm always pushing the wrong button.02:00
pupnikoh i missed that02:00
TonyMaroThe only time I dial right on the first try is if it's stored in the address book, lol02:01
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TonyMaroI was a victim of Moto Marketing...  I bought into the hype when they were released.02:01
TonyMaroMy next phone will probably be a cheap Samsung.02:02
* pupnik must nap now02:05
TonyMaropupnik:  I think the biggest problem is the keypad - there's no real tactile feedback from the keys like with a traditional pad.02:05
TonyMaropupnik:  Nite02:05
pupnikyeah -02:05
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TonyMarohehe didn't realize I was away02:06
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unique311i need this running on the N800...please02:17
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setitehaha hey unique31102:18
unique311whats up02:18
setiteshit.. aint you got a job :) haha02:18
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unique311yes  i do.02:20
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unique311I do lost prevention at AnF02:20
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setiteim an electrician02:23
unique311my dad was an electrician...02:24
unique311nice field of work..02:24
unique311AnF(abercrombie & fitch)02:24
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unique311My sister's tell me all the time to go school and become and electrician, "oh its in your blood, your dad did it, your grandad also..."02:26
unique311those fuckers weren't afraid of getting shocked.02:26
unique311I am..02:26
setiteso am i02:28
setitethats why you be an inside wireman02:28
setitelineman are the guys with greatest risk of getting shocked since they work live powerlines02:28
setiteim an inside wireman so im rarely around any energized circuits02:28
setiteunless you wanna move up an AnF i'd look into your local union02:29
setiteschool just started but it still a good time ot get in02:29
unique311i'm happy with my slacker job.02:29
unique311really trying to get into fashion design right now.02:30
unique311fashion is where the money's at.02:30
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robl^Clawsmail is buggy03:03
robl^Only saw like 50 mails from july...03:04
robl^Yet i have about 400 msgs on that imap4 server03:06
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setiteyea for me.. real estate is where the money's at03:31
setitei'm not going for something that competitive.. ill stick witht eh guaranteed money.. sorry for late replay.. haha unique31103:31
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skiburWhat are some of the Cons of the N800?04:58
erstazia 3 ton truck can break it04:59
erstaziskibur: there is not any pullout keyboard, so you have to tap (or use your finger) on the virtual keyboard... or ssh to the device like I do04:59
skiburThinking of buying a N800.  I currently with DSLinux Nintendo DS Lite.04:59
erstaziDamn Small Linux?05:00
_MonkeyDamn Small Linux is great on older pc's, the XFCE DE is very easy flowing05:00
skiburLinux on the Nintendo DS Lite05:00
robl^Worst thing about it is the email app.  Could use a few tweaks05:00
erstaziskibur: yes Damn Small Linux is a distro05:00
skiburyeah, that too05:00
erstazirobl^: well, thats if someone wants to use an email client or just choose to use web based mail...05:01
erstaziI have to deal with being secure so I either encrypt my harddrives when using an email client or use web based05:01
erstaziI have a 770 and I am happy with it05:02
skiburStill don't Know if I should buy one.05:03
erstaziI might go for a n800 later on but right now, its what satisfying to the person... I don't need a camera but 2 SD slots would be nice!05:03
robl^erstazi: true..but as a device marketed as an internet communication device.. The email lacks a bit in features05:03
erstazirobl^: I see the point... I am not even sure what the OS2007's default mail client is... but if its based off evolution, I will agree, it needs tweaked05:03
erstaziI wouldn't want to be the one who ported all these apps for nokia05:04
erstazievolution was an instant turn off for me05:04
erstazibut thats because of my need for security05:04
robl^skibur: i bought an n800 a few days ago.. I love it, but there are a few minor rough edges...all can be fixed in software05:05
skiburo ok05:06
skiburlike, can I have thunderbird, kopete, bash, xterm, ssh, and emulators etc.?05:06
robl^erstazi: yeah... Not sure if the email is based on evolution...evolution does better than the bundled one on os200705:07
robl^I have bash, xterm, pidgin/gaim, ssh, bash installed05:07
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erstaziskibur: you can get an n800 for $33005:09
erstazirobl^: does bash have a better tar than busybox?05:09
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erstaziskibur: you can also have xchat, irssi, and many more05:09
erstazihi rwhitby05:10
skibur$330 (new)?05:10
erstaziskibur: yes05:10
erstazilet me find the link05:10
skiburamazon is for $360 new05:10
robl^Bash has no tar...its a separate binary05:10
robl^I got mine for $150 after a gift card and sale price05:11
erstazirobl^: yeah, the tar is a pain though05:12
erstaziskibur: I got my nokia 770 for $129 on there05:12
erstazione place were selling them for $330 brand new05:12
robl^Not had a need to try tar yet..  Only had it a few days05:13
erstazirobl^: well, I usually use scratchbox to extract and build packages... but was in need of a quick extract05:15
erstazirobl^: and the tar is distributed with busybox, which is default last I checked05:15
erstazirobl^: I don't have a sources.list for OS2007 (only OS2006 at but other people have sources.list but for OS200705:16
erstaziyou might be able to switch everything to bora05:16
erstazibut I don't trust that05:16
erstaziskibur: if you buy from, do the free shipping, I got mine in 2 days and my buddy did the overnight and it took them a week to get it to him05:17
erstaziskibur: which isn't's fault, just the mailing service05:17
robl^I am trying to get mono 1.2.5 for n800..05:18
erstazirobl^: for OS200705:19
robl^Will play with scratchbox tomorrow05:19
erstazirobl^: what linux distro do you have on a pc?05:19
erstazior laptop05:19
robl^Yeah...for os2007.405:19
robl^My laptop is fedora 705:20
erstaziok, scratchbox might have rpm05:20
erstaziyeah it does05:20
erstaziI have CentOS, I had to think for a second05:20
erstazibut Debian-based is very friendly05:20
erstazirobl^: with scratchbox, you can use the latest sources at
robl^Thats the plan...would like to seebofficial mono pkgs though05:23
robl^That would make porting / writing new apps easier for me05:23
erstazirobl^: there are many howtos for installing scratchbox... including how to get the rootstraps and all that installed05:24
erstazirobl^: what language(s) do you know?05:24
robl^Been reading up on scratchbox...05:24
robl^Ohhh, c#, php, 4gl, a bit of ansi c05:25
erstazibe right back05:26
robl^Not an expert in any of those...but i can muddle through :-D05:26
erstaziwell it helps05:29
TonyMarowoot, I just finished changing the Kagu kinetic scroll widget to work with GTK instead of PyGame05:31
TonyMaroIt's an ugly hack, but it worked05:31
TonyMaronokia n80005:32
setiteoh sorry tony.. i know05:32
setiteerstazi whats centOS like05:32
TonyMarooh.... lol05:32
TonyMarowell I'm going home - lata05:33
robl^Been dealing with c# for work...and if i could use that skill with apps i can run on my n800, i would have an incentive to learn faster05:33
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setitecentos gives me brain pain in like the fist minute05:33
setiteso ugly... and the talk is too much for my simple mind05:33
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pupnikzzzhi setite - are you an old kanotix user or something?05:44
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erstazisetite: centos is 100% binary compatible with Red Hat, or thats the aim they want05:57
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setitethought i heard you say it was debian based05:57
erstazisetite: oh, no sorry, its RHEL based06:02
erstazisetite: I meant another distro06:03
erstazisetite: for scratchbox, I suggest people to use a debian-based distro06:03
erstazilike Debian, MEPIS, or Ubuntu06:03
erstazimany more, just not going to list them all (:06:03
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qgilmilhouse: ping09:50
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kulveqgil: why can't I get email notifications from the wiki page editions?10:15
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timelyxkulve: edits?10:18
timelyx(an edition is a different animal)10:18
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JaffaErk, the Foleo's been cancelled.10:45
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* keesj is going for a month long brasil holliday next work10:48
keesjI wonder if and what gadget to take with me10:48
JaffaNot a Foleo ;-)10:48
keesjI am thinking about taking the 77010:49
keesjit has longer battery life. I just would love to do more programming on the device itself10:51
keesjpic programming is what I have been doing lately, perhaps I can port to the arm10:51
timelyxJaffa: technically shelved, no? :)10:54
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keesjJaffa: after reading I think more companies should make such choices11:03
keesjit almoost sounds like a rational not money/time to market driven choice.11:03
keesjI have been thinking a lot about maemo/openmoko and what is structuraly wrong with them11:04
timelyxkeesj: the list is shorter if you ask what is structurally right with them :)11:05
keesjI just try to imagine what would be require for such a product to work in an open-source context11:06
keesjthe real great mamo stuff was all created by nokia and affiliates.11:06
_Monkeymaemo is at or Open Source Software11:07
timelyxshut up11:07
keesjmaemo-mapper being a great exeption , also some nice media players where created11:07
timelyxout of curiosity, which good things can you list for maemo from nokia?11:08
keesjthoose are the real things in the open-source context "do one thing well"11:08
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pupnikkeesj, mtpaint would be nice11:08
* timelyx still wants gimpshop11:09
keesjtimelyx: I think that they UI is pretty consistent , the talk stuff , the concept11:09
keesjthe thumb keyboard, the browser, the games. media-streamer, they just are more finished / adapted to the platform11:10
* timelyx ponders11:10
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timelyxout of curiosity, what's your view on rhapsody?11:10
timelyx(from memory it's basically just a media streamer consumer, but...)11:11
keesja product for us customers?11:11
timelyxsorry, I was able to beta it here in Finland11:11
keesjI havent' tried it11:11
timelyxbenefit of being an employee :)11:11
timelyxif you're in the us and have an n800, give it a try11:12
inzFeh, vacation over, only ~1500 emails waiting to be processed :/11:12
keesjI an in Amsterdam11:12
inzFortunately most of them are not of importance11:12
timelyxinz: « Back to Search results Report SpamDelete Ð Newer 20 of tens of thousands Older ð11:13
keesjthe whole maemo trip for me has been more like being in a bus and not being the driver11:13
keesjI like what I see , I like to drive a bit but I am not a bus driver.11:13
timelyxnice analogy11:14
pupnikwhat OS do you personally steer?11:14
inztimelyx, they're not spam, but notifications et al11:14
timelyxinz: yeah, but look at it this way11:15
timelyxgmail say i have tens of thousands of things to read11:15
timelyxand i'm about to *start* my vacation11:15
keesjpupnik: for work I create driver/fix bugs  of a linux based PND(personal navigation device)11:16
timelyxinz: the worst part... i *musT* check mail weekly11:16
timelyxotherwise my primary inbox will fill up and start bouncing 9/10 emails11:16
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inztime, yeah, that would be nasty (expect that amount of spam sent to your address might reduce)11:17
infobotinz meant: time, yeah, that would be nasty (except that amount of spam sent to your address might reduce)11:18
timelyxinz: spam relative to ham in this case is noise i never notice11:19
keesjtimelyx: I just really wonder what should be expected from the community/me11:19
timelyxkeesj: well, pick a smaller bus11:20
pupnikMore unit sales = more developers.  This *is* a one-product OS, is it not?11:20
timelyxare you interested in helping the browser?11:20
timelyxkeesj: i.e. go through and pick either a product or a component11:20
timelyxonce you've picked 1 or 2, let me know and i'll give you suggestions11:20
timelyxit'll be easier on me if you choose browser, but i can work w/ anything11:20
timelyxyou have 40mins. i need to go to work11:21
timelyxoh, and you only have today. i'll be on vacation for a month and don't have a hotel reservation for friday night :(11:21
AD-N770good morning11:22
pupnikmorning AD-N77011:23
timelyxkeesj: practically speaking, the list is something like this:11:23
timelyx1. converting bug reports into actionable items11:23
pupnikAD-N770: i saw you had some ASM skills - do you know if there is a way to do profiling on the device?11:23
timelyx2. reducing problems to even more specifically fixable items11:23
AD-N770pupnik: oprofile11:23
timelyx3. finding and fixing them yourself11:23
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timelyx4. discovering inconsistencies that aren't reported (either within an app or across the platform) and reporting them11:24
pupnikAD-N770: do i need to download an 'oprofile kernel' or compile one myself?11:24
timelyx5. checking the documentation for an app and reporting bugs about areas where it's wrong11:24
AD-N770I compiled one myself11:24
AD-N770but there's one compiled too11:24
timelyx6. checking the documentation and determining where it's missing important sections (file bugs)11:24
AD-N770you can boot it without flash the unit11:25
timelyxthose are the easy ones11:25
pupnikOk thanks - i saw some mailing list chatter about it - but only problems and no howto11:25
timelyx7. offering suggestions for actually fixing 5/611:25
keesjI just looked a the last +/- 100 filled bug, I think there is only one what would be fixable by me (Mouse support (Bluetooth and on 770 USB support))11:30
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keesjtimelyx: one full month? what kind of company are you working for :p11:34
timelyxeuropean. it's 4 weeks plus weekends at both ends11:34
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therilDoes anybody have a multimeter and N800 wired headset?11:38
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matmomorning. Alternative for doing updates via App Mgr one-by-one? IT200612:11
matmored pill mode active12:12
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timelyxmatmo: heh12:13
timelyxmatmo: find some meta package that depends on the things you want updated12:13
timelyxor heck, write one :)12:13
onionmatmo: xterm + apt-get ?12:13
matmoapt-get for *all* updates? Not familiar apart from basics12:14
suihkulokkiAD-N770: you pinged me when I was on vacation12:14
timelyxmatmo: if you're feeling suicidal...12:15
timelyxthere's a magic:sys package12:15
timelyxwhich may or may not convert your device into a pretty brick12:15
timelyxotoh, it might do something resembling what you want12:15
matmotimelyx: arh, hope to avoid that :-)12:15
matmowhere to find this magic package?12:16
AD-N770not sure, I can't remember now :)12:16
timelyxmatmo: personally, i like bricks12:16
timelyxmatmo: at least in 2007 it's listed in redpill12:16
timelyxi suppose it might have been introduced after 200612:16
timelyxtalks about them12:16
matmono such package listed in app mgr for 2006. Thanks, I'll check the link out.12:17
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onionmatmo: feeling experimental? here is it2007 app manager compiled for 2006:
matmoThere are about 3 dozen packages listed as updates in app mgr. Manually, I will still be here tomorrow12:18
matmoonion: ok, thanks, I'll check it out12:18
timelyxmatmo: aptitude is probably the alternative12:18
timelyxif you can find someone like onion who can build it for you :)12:19
onionbut don't complain if it bricks your device..12:19
timelyxonion: that's the spirit :)12:19
onionworks-for-me :)12:19
matmowhy should it brick the device? Won't it only apply updates correct for 2006?12:19
timelyxbeta code12:20
timelyxno guarantees12:20
timelyxand you're assuming things that you might have changed12:20
onionmatmo: well, it's not official for 200612:20
timelyxthere's a nice page from that describes what can happen to you if you use beta code12:20
timelyxbut i can't find it12:20
onionand nokias funny way of using gettext breakes some strings12:21
matmois there no "official" way to get all updates?12:21
onionmatmo: just use apt-get upgrade as root12:21
timelyxmatmo: correct12:21
timelyxmatmo: the key is that if you've done anything interesting, e.g. added repositories12:22
timelyxthen all bets are off12:22
timelyxand it's fairly easy to brick any debian based system if you mix repositories12:22
matmosure I've added repo's, who hasn't?12:22
timelyxtablet, server, laptop, it doesn't matter12:22
timelyxright. therein lies the fun and excitement12:22
oniontimelyx: well, not many repos touch critical system packages12:23
timelyxonion: one of the n800 repositories broke opera for a while :)12:23
onionmy repo does but...12:23
timelyxi mean, it's not like i care about opera, but some of our users did :o12:23
oniongstreamer update to latest release :)12:23
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matmoI have cert, non-cert, canola, herring, gregale, bora, etc, etc12:24
onionI like my software fresh...12:25
timelyxi like my software dead12:31
onionI needed libgstapp and that required a new gst12:34
timelyxso, if you want to do an upgrade, you probably want to limit the number of enabled repositories12:34
pupnikare you programming for the dsp onion?12:34
timelyxhaving repositories while installing is all fine and dandy12:34
timelyxbut having them while upgrading is asking for more trouble than you want12:34
matmotimelyx: so which ones should I leave enabled?12:36
pupnikdo packages get updated enough to warrant an upgrade?12:36
onionpupnik: no, I needed an easy way to play speach buffers from libespeak12:36
pupniklibespeak is text-to-speech?12:36
onionpupnik: yes12:37
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matmosod it, trying: apt-get upgrade12:42
matmowhizzing along now12:42
matmo(can't hold my breath this long)12:43
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matmooops, rebooting12:44
Veggenmatmo: not always a good idea ;)12:44
Veggen(to apt-get upgrade)12:44
matmoVeggen: too late12:44
matmonokia, white screen, nokia, white screen, ... guess I'm fuk'ed12:45
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Nermalmatmo: :(12:46
matmo:-( indeed12:47
onionmatmo: well, that sucks12:47
matmoso, what now?12:47
Nermalsell it to meeee12:48
onionsomething I've been doing lately too many times...12:49
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matmooooo, it's gone to charging screen now12:49
matmokeeps connecting then disconnecting on usb12:50
matmoschitzo fuk'ing thing12:50
onionwonder how loong it takes to get my old one back from warranty. any .fi nokia folks that might know how loong it takes ?12:50
onionmatmo: yeah, I got mine to go into a endles reboot loop after a normal shutdown12:51
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matmoonion: how did you get out of it12:51
onionmatmo: guess12:51
matmowith the usb problem?12:52
onionusb was ok..12:52
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onionmatmo: it won't go into flashing mode ?12:52
matmosee above12:53
timelyxonion: we don't really deal w/ factory / warrantee you're much better off asking a normal person12:54
timelyxwe have people internally who will replace hardware components12:54
onionmatmo: try removing the battery12:54
timelyxonion: welcome to debian goodness12:54
oniontimelyx: ok12:54
timelyxoh, oops w/onion/matmo/12:55
matmoseems to have settled once I started the updater12:55
Brigetplease tell me any body how can i integrate libjpeg example.c  with maemo project. please.......12:55
timelyxBriget: eh?12:55
timelyxmaemo includes libjpeg12:55
Brigetbut when i build the project then i got some error12:56
onionmatmo: I hope you have a backup12:56
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oniontimelyx: you wouldn12:57
pupnikBriget: the makefile should -l link libjpeg12:57
timelyxfinnetic ahhs, how eenteresting12:58
oniontimelyx: 't happen to know if the touchscreen failing is a common failure for the 770 ?12:58
Brigetlike undefined refference to "jpeg_std_error(&jerr)..."12:58
timelyxonion: if i knew i most certainly couldn't say12:58
timelyxmy 770s touchscreen failed because of water damage last winter12:58
onionok :)12:58
timelyxi used it in the snow in helsinki, it was fine12:58
timelyxbut i took it inside and in the morning, the touchscreen was dead12:58
timelyxi believe it's fairly rare12:58
Brigetactually i m newbie. can you please tell me what should i do now.12:58
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timelyxbtw, the user manual explicitly says not to do things like that :)12:59
pupnikundefined reference often means the required library is not being linked-in12:59
onionthe ts on my older 770 failed nicely, just where backspace and enter is12:59
timelyxonion: hrm12:59
timelyxthe n800 touchscreens were worse in that respect12:59
onionand like a circle in the middle of the screen12:59
timelyx4.2007 had fixes for them12:59
timelyxif it's the same general idea, then maybe the next hacker edition (if such a thing happens) would be helpful13:00
pupnikdoes your project use a Makefile Briget ?13:00
oniontimelyx: well, comparing with my new 770 the ts on the old was totaly broken13:00
Brigetpupnik : would you like to have some time to give me solution. pls13:01
pupniki don't know what the problem is, Briget13:01
oniontimelyx: the new just needs a slight tap, the old required much more presure13:01
timelyxonion: hrm,.... that's the general problem the n800s had13:01
timelyxbut afaik no one has really reported such problems about 770s13:01
timelyxmy 770s screen was entirely touch dead13:02
timelyx(presumably a short or equivalent)13:02
timelyxdisplay was fine, but os 2006 doesn't support touchscreenless use, so it wasn't useful13:02
pupnikBriget: somewhere in your Makefile you should have -llibjpeg  (i think) and if not you should look for a line where other libraries are linked -13:02
pupnikthen add -llibjpeg to that13:03
timelyxyou may or may not need a -L too ?13:03
onionBriget: reporting the given error message would be good13:03
pupniki can't remember the difference :/13:03
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guru3-L is a directory to search for libraries to link13:05
onionwell, of to get some lunch13:05
* timelyx doesn't know or care where the library lives, but the linker will :)13:06
guru3-llibname will link just that library13:06
guru3probably what you want in this case13:06
guru3ah -L is a directory (or list of them) in which to search for the -llib13:08
guru3LIBRARY_PATH is also used13:08
guru3i think, according to the man page13:08
BrigetPupnik: i check my makefile but there libjpeg is not included13:12
Brigetwill i add there  -libjpeg ?13:12
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lardman -ljpeg13:13
lardmandon't add the "lib" bit13:13
lardmanbut you do need the "-l" to tell it to link a library13:14
Brigethi lard man this _test . thank you for helping me13:14
lardmanBriget: Np, did you get it working?13:14
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Brigetbut as i m new i face lots of problems13:15
matmoreflashed. Well that was not nice13:15
lardmanBriget: Best way to learn is trying it13:17
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lardmankulve: You about?13:22
lardmankulve: Do you have any data on the speed differences between word and ipbuf transfers?13:22
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kulveno, I didn't check that13:24
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lardmanI need to transfer arguments to functions on the DSP side, I could pack them and the command in a buffer, but will only fit the command in a word13:25
lardmanWith that said, I may just set aside a small amount of shared memory as a parameter buffer and get the DSP to look at the data there when it receives a command13:25
lardmanWill save altering anything else (which is good as I've had too many re-starts now!)13:26
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pupnikdoes the DSP allow you to see the load?  i.e. a 'top' command>?13:36
lardmanpupnik: there's something similar, under the sysfs entry13:37
lardman /sys/devices/platform/dsp/cpuload iirc13:37
lardmanthat path may be a bit screwed up actually13:37
pupniklooking now - interesting stuff :)13:38
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pupnikpath is correct but i have no cpuload on 770 it2006se13:39
lardmananything with cpu in it?13:39
pupnikcpustat shows "RUN"13:39
pupnikmaybe i need to play something via dsp first13:39
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pupnikloadinfo - aah13:40
lardmanmy mistake, sorry13:40
pupnik  1min average = 123.82%  idling13:42
lardmanhmm, interesting maths there13:42
pupnikbusiest 10ms 617%13:42
lardmanI've got odd numbers too13:43
pupnikmplayer mp3dsp playback for youtube vids is around 28%13:47
suihkulokkiyoutube does not use mp3dsp, it uses pcm13:48
lardmanyou can force it to use the DSP from mplayer13:48
lardmanat least that's what I remember13:48
suihkulokkiah, youre talking about mplayer, not flash13:48
pupnikok.  i saw a message from mplayer saying Selected audio codec: [dspmp3] afm: dspmp3 (MP3 audio pass-through for Nokia 770)13:48
pupnikso the high cpu when idle is probably just a maths error13:50
lardmanpupnik: I imagine so, it should be in the kernel source somewhere13:50
lardmanpupnik: Unless it's done in the avs_kernel13:51
pupnikwell that gives a very rought idea of the performance13:55
lardmanit's in the omap patch13:55
lardmanthough the raw data is from the DSP13:55
lardmanfor example13:55
lardmanline 43944 - definition of loadinfo_show()13:56
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pupnikplayering a slightly higher quality 22050khz mono mp3 gives 33%13:58
pupnikwith gstreamer plugin13:58
pupniki mean dspmp3sink13:58
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pupnikcould the DSP map say 8MB of memory for a wave based midi player?14:00
lardmanpupnik: Not sure how much it can map, but in theory yes14:01
pupnikok.  the full blown timidity can chew up to 50% of the 770 CPU, but i've also gotten some songs to play at around 12% cpu.14:02
pupnikso it should be doable for at least a subset of MIDI music14:02
lardmanyeah, you should be able to send the track data to the DSP and it will return pcm data14:03
lardmanlet it do the number crunching14:03
pupnikyeah multi-channel sample playback is just copy, multiply, add14:06
pupnikpitched playback without filtering/interpolation is trivial too.  then you need envelopes and loops which are also simple14:09
lardmanyou need to be able to chop up the processing into chunks so that it plays fairly with the DSP gateway14:09
pupnika midi/mod player would be a great project14:11
pupnik... for someone else! :P14:11
lardmanwhy not you? ;)14:12
pupniki'll think about it.  it is tempting.14:12
lardmanIf you sketch out some code, we'll be happy to help out with the dsp link, then the next step is to make sure the code will run on the dsp14:13
lardmani.e. nothing smaller than 16bit data14:14
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pupnikok a barebones midi player on the ARM shouldn't be too hard... will let you know if i come up with something14:15
lardmangood good, the more the merrier!14:16
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lardmanpupnik: Hmm, looking at midi, doesn't one need a load of pre-generated sounds available?14:27
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lardmanOr some way of generating them, but to a specific format14:27
Brigetlardman: in example.c outpath is outfile but i want to write the output to a char pointer how could i do that14:28
lardmanBriget: where's the code?14:28
_Monkeyi guess the code is clean, simple14:28
pupniklardman: there are open-source / creative commons soundfonts available in 2MB, 8MB and larger sizes14:29
Brigetin my project14:29
lardmanBriget: Let's see it then, either an url or paste it on pastebin.com14:30
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pupniklardman: they can also be synthesized at load-time via various software synthesizers14:30
lardmanpupnik: yes, that's what I was thinking14:30
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Brigeti will paste it to pastebin14:30
lardmanpupnik: would make the code more complex though, might be best to use existing data first of all14:31
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pupnikKobo deluxe synthesizes the sounds at load time, which makes game start-up take about 5 minutes.  (heh)14:32
lardmanI was thinking of synthesis at run-time14:32
lardmanbut that would probably be too intensive14:33
BrigetLardman: I have pasted it.14:33
lardmanBriget: URL?14:33
Brigetplease check it.14:33
lardmanso what do you want to do?14:34
Brigetya . i want to returned the comprssed image as char pointer14:34
lardmanwrite to a buffer rather than a file?14:35
Brigetya ya ya14:35
Brigetyou r too good man14:35
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lardmanOne presumes that by altering the dest_mgr you could write to a buffer rather than a file in a specific format14:38
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lardmanBriget: Look in libjpeg.doc14:42
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lardmanBriget: it tells you how to make your data destination manager14:43
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Brigetok , i just now libjpeg.doc again14:44
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lardmanBriget: Look at jdatadst.c which is the stdio data destination14:46
Brigetok, thanks14:46
lardmanBriget: there must also be pre-written code about on the interweb14:49
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lardmanpupnik: Did you look at that omap patch?14:52
lardmanpupnik: Looks like the DSP load goes from 0->1000014:52
Brigetya. ya. i m checking it14:52
lardmanpupnik: I've no idea why it produces funny figures, but it's probably on the DSP itself14:53
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pupniki did not.. strange!14:56
Brigetlardman : in jpeg_stdio_dest (j_compress_ptr cinfo, FILE * outfile) method output is written to a out file but i need to write output to buffer so can i use a buffer instead  of a filea14:58
lardmanBriget: Well define your own set of callback functions, and rather than writing to a file do a memcpy from the jpeg temporary buffer to your buffer14:59
Brigetthank you14:59
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Brigetlardman: here pixbuf_data->save("image", "jpeg",err) pixbuf can be saved as ppm/bmp format rather than jpeg format ?15:06
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robl^What repo has libreadline for os2007?15:26
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robl^I am trying to install sqllite, but the installer complains about libreadline can't be found.15:32
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_Monkeyrepositories are not just a job, but an adventure!  Add some for big win!
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_Monkeyi think repository is  and a searchable index at
pupnik_robl^ see the searchable index for info15:38
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robl^Ahhh thanks for the searchable15:41
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robl^Hrmmmm. The repo search only found libreadline5...but sqllite needs 416:00
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pupniki almost always see things using 516:01
pupnik... The superscalar processor core is said to generate almost double the performance per MHz compared to previous generation versions, featuring deeper pipelines, higher frequency and dedicated Level 2 cache.16:01
pupnikThe processor runs at 550MHz, rather than the typical 330 MHz for the OMAP 2 processors.16:01
GSsomeone know the name of package or repository for E17 see this
* pupnik is getting dizzy with lust for OMAP 343016:02
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pupnikgonna be as fast as an anno 1999 desktop PC16:04
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robl^will that be in the nokia N90016:05
pupniki don't know16:05
pupnikN800 is still too new for any news leaks16:06
pupnikbut that cache and the core speed will mean good console emulation16:07
robl^I look like a freak...  Carrying an N800, and 2 blackberry devices...almost as many gadgets as Batman's utility belt16:07
pupnikwhy 2?16:08
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robl^One is work only, other is personal...but the n800 has almost replaced the personal one16:09
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erstazicypherbios: .16:33
erstazicypherbios: ..16:33
cypherbiosops, sorry, xchat window is not a console window :)16:34
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GSsomeone know the name of package or repository for E17 see this ????????16:37
cypherbiosGS: I'm not sure, but I guess it is vnc over another Linux computer16:39
GScypherbios, mmm i0m not sure16:40
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GS"Rasterman is doing a great work porting E17 to N800"16:41
cypherbiosGS: in this case, forget about what I said :)16:41
GS <- WTF!!16:43
GSvnc? ;)16:43
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cypherbiosGS: btw, the e17 thing looks great16:45
keesjGS: also check this blog for cool "e" stuff16:45
pupnikyou might want to search for E1716:46
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GSknow another plugin or applet for wireless network signal???16:49
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pupniksorry GS i don't know answers.  Kismet might work now.17:50
Nermalsomeone I know donated his 770 to a kismet developer to improve kismet support on the 770/80017:51
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timsevesIs this the right channel to ask about IT OS 2007 Hacker edition on N770?18:03
Nermalprobably :)18:03
Daniellioni would try it but i cant take a full snapshot of the current os18:06
Daniellionwish there was a utility like ghost to just take a full clone of the internal memory18:06
odivboot from rs-mmc and use different ones?18:08
timsevesI've installed IT OS 2007 HE succesfully on a N770 and it's working very well, except that I now don't seem to be able to delete files or folders from the removable card. I can format it, create new folders and save files on it (though not copy or move them to it).  Does any one know what's going on?18:10
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timsevesI've tested the above conditions use Note and File Manager18:11
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matmohi ho. Is there an ftp server for maemo apps?18:11
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Nermaltimseves: odd :|18:18
timelesstry xterminal18:18
timelessyou tend to get much better errors from it18:25
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jaekuh, is there a windows flasher tool i can download?18:55
cesmanyes, there is18:56
cesmanas I don't use Windows, I don't have the link18:56
cesmanshould be on the Nokia site18:56
jaekofficial site, not
jaekmy 770 is acting up, cant install or update any apps18:58
jaekgunna flash it instead of finding the problem ;)18:58
timsevesjaek: if you start at the official site and follow the links for OS upgrades there is a link to the windows tool there18:58
Daniellionmy app list is failing18:58
Daniellionwish that app would just say bad url and still update the other stuff18:59
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Daniellionrather then just bombing out the update18:59
jaektimeseves thanks18:59
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Danielliontimeless the waht?18:59
jaekDownload the Nokia Internet Tablet Software Update Wizard and save it to your computer.19:01
jaekbut it doesnt have a link....19:01
jaekwhere is the link... anyone see it?19:03
jaeknvm, i just wont update it19:04
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jaekDaniellion, you say that if the app manager fails to install/update it is cus of bad URLs?19:05
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Daniellioni think so19:06
Daniellioni had to put iin some url's19:06
Daniellionfor updates19:06
jaekdirect download ;)19:06
jaekhad to use google, cant find it using nokia's website19:07
Danielliongoiong on my flash drive19:08
Danielliontoo bad they don't have a mac version19:08
jaekanyone know what is the best upnp video player to use on a 770?19:10
jaekgot to catch up on my monk episodes19:11
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jaekdoes the windows software updater differ for the 770 and the 800?19:19
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jaeki never updated this in windows... holding down the "home" key does nothing19:24
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Daniellionis this jsut update whts on there ? or does it list packages to install too?19:29
jaeki'm trying to flash it19:30
jaekwith the windows software19:30
jaekwow, this windows update software is retarded19:33
jaeknow it is telling me my windows clock is not right19:33
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timsevestimeless: I can delete files using the xterminal from the mmc card that I cannot delete using the File Manager19:46
timsevestimeless: very odd19:46
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timsevestimeless: is it possible that my IT OS 2006 backup which got restored when I upgraded could be interfering?19:47
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* k-s[WORK] is away: lunch20:06
odivI want lunch.20:06
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robl^Lunch is overrated20:09
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jaeekanyone know where i could get a replacement stylus for the 770?20:13
jaeekmy nephew lost both of mine20:13
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truhey, I have problem setting up sbox2 for maemo. (I need sbox2 because I have a ia64 linux box).20:22
trusb2-init runs fine but then it craps out when I am trying to apt-get packages.20:22
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odivSo what online radio do you guys listen to with this?20:25
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suihkulokkitru: you need to use the emu mode20:25
trusuihkulokki: ok? I just followed the guide in the INSTALL file of sbox2. any hints?20:26
suihkulokkisb2 -e apt-get update20:27
suihkulokkitru ^20:27
robl^Coast to coast radio.  Need to listen about time traveling aliens trying to control humans with bio-engineered fake chocolate20:27
suihkulokkitru: -> #scratchbox , I don't think anyone has tried ising IA64 host20:28
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trusuihkulokki: thanks.20:32
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roopethe new iPod Touch. :) With Wifi.20:38
robl^Does it run Linux? :-)20:40
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timelesswho wants to run linux?20:40
ezodhi, i'm trying to get a devel environment set up according to the maemo 2.2 tutorial20:40
timelesslinux is for people who like poor quality software20:40
ezodso before i go any farther20:40
ezodis that what i should be doing if i want to develop for the 770?20:41
celestehtrolling is timeless20:41
timelessseems like gregale is indeed the latest 770 official platform20:41
timeless_monkey forget trolling20:42
_Monkeytimeless: I forgot trolling20:42
timeless_monkey trolling is <reply>20:42
_MonkeyOK, timeless.20:42
ezodso i'm working through the tutorial and there's inconsistencies - e.g., xephyr is nowhere to be found in the rootstrap tarball it specifies20:45
ezodso i work around (xnest in that case)20:45
roopeLike the iPhone, without the phone. That's quite... overlapping the tablets.20:45
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timelessezod: be warned20:46
timelessgetting xnest to have the right quirky resolutions and stuff is hard20:46
ezodwell i suppose i can try to get xephyr going, but like i said, its not in the rootstrap :)20:47
ezodthats what im stuck on now20:47
ezodand google is no help20:47
timelessroope: where's this new ipod?20:47
timelessezod: i hit that when i was trying to use scratchbox20:47
timelessfwiw, sh -x start20:48
timelesscan be kinda like a friend20:48
timelessactually, sh -x `which` start20:48
timelessiirc some variable isn't properly set20:48
timelessand it gets confused and does something moderately supid20:48
ezodthats been the story with every problem ive had so far20:49
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ezodwell thanks, ill take a look20:49
ezodbtw, what did you mean by "when i was trying to use scratchbox"?20:49
ezodis there another supported environment?20:50
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Id3rfixhello boys20:50
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Id3rfixi got a problem with nokia 77020:50
Id3rfixi have installed kismet20:51
Id3rfixthen when i do sudo gainroot20:51
Id3rfixand after i write kismet20:52
Id3rfixi receive a reply as20:52
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Id3rfix/usr/bin/kismet_server: error while loadiy [1] + Done (127) ${BIN} /ki }20:57
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Id3rfixthis is the error that i see on the shell20:58
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ezodok, so i figured out what it is (problem above)21:04
ezod/scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner complains the file doesn't exist for cpu transparency method21:05
ezodim not using qemu-arm or whatever because the tutorial specified to use 'none'21:05
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Blacksitoxhi :)21:06
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Id3rfixwhere can i find the old file kismet2006 ?21:11
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jaeeki'm trying to use canola with tversity21:39
jaeekwhen i go to shared video, it just sits there with the status indicator twirling....21:39
jaeeki have the windows firewall open for tversity21:39
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jaeeknvm got it21:49
MKBmight be just me, but i think the n800 just got a bad beating from this..
lle2uhhuh x)21:57
MKBsure it can't do all the things than the n800 can, but the way it does it's thing is quite something21:58
lle2great, now we can do the UI design the only feasible way that gets results, clone from apple21:59
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MKBlle2: :)22:02
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lle2I hope we can do that without someone having any ego issues about it, like trying to insist that the tablet is really a PC and should have the windows level of usability problems22:06
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therilI happen to think that apple UI's suck for all but simplest morons22:08
lle2I'm happy to be a simple moron when I'm not working22:09
lle2I don't like to solve problems just to check email22:09
therilAnd if you like doing something a bit differently than Apple Way(TM), you're screwed22:10
lle2yeah, but that's because the Apple Way is pretty good, if it's not for you, don't bother fighting it, get something else22:11
therilFor example the Finder is endless source of frustration22:11
lle2show me a file manager that isn't22:11
therilzsh ;)22:11
therilAnd with this fanboying spreading, I'm afraid that soon there's nothing else to get22:12
lle2not apple's fault22:12
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lle2I don't understand how it can be good business practise for everybody else to make total piece of shit laptops22:13
lle2even the traditional safe haven of thinkpads has been ruined22:14
proctothat's why I use the n80022:15
therilI don't really have opinion on that, because I've never used laptop that isn't hell to use22:15
proctoI'm sitting in class right now :>22:15
proctoI replaced my laptop with the n800 and a desktop22:15
lle2theril: computers suck, that's why it's funny that we (nokia) insist on that bizarre multimedia computer thing22:16
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therillle2: I don't think that computers suck much more than any other electrical devices22:23
celestehi dunno.  my lamp is very solidly reliable22:24
celestehonly have to change the bulb once every few years22:25
celestehvery portable22:25
therilMy lamps burn in about a month22:26
celestehyou need those compact flourescent bulbs22:26
therilIn fact I didn't have a lamp in my bedroom for whole summer, because I got tired of changing them22:26
therilYeah, I have one now :)22:26
proctoglasses suck, too, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't wear them if I needed them22:26
proctoso we're stuck for computers22:26
infobotprocto meant: so we're stuck with computers22:27
lle2almost anything that has software in it is bound to suck22:27
celestehwow an infobot and a monkey.22:27
proctowho's the monkey?22:28
_Monkeyhmmm... the monkey is a not-very-smart bot22:28
therilI have eyeglasses and I almost never use them22:28
lle2monkey is an idiot22:28
proctotheril: well, there ya go22:28
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* k-s[AWAY_WORK] is back.22:31
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eijkHi! Is anybody here who is suffering from the memory corruption instabilities related to WLAN use on the 770 (see and
eijkI might have a workaround...22:46
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disqso when's the price drop on the n800? :P22:57
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disqoh, hi btw22:58
||cwor some new killer app for it... the new ipod with wifi and safari and 16GB at $399 is stiff competition22:59
||cwif the ipod had bluetooth I think I'd be sold23:00
celestehcan the ipod run gps software?  i got my n800 to be a bike computer23:00
WhisperingVoicespresumably you have it hooked up to a GPS phone23:02
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celestehno, i use the nokie GPS bluetooth dongle23:08
||cwcelesteh: not right now, but it's only a matter of time.  I'm guessing the iphone unlock will work on it with minimal mods at most23:10
||cwyeah, bt gps, I took my 770 on a canoe trip with google maps sat images for the map, was pretty cool23:11
celestehwell, unless you get a wifi-enabled bluetooth dongle, you'll have to wait for a future revision23:12
celestehtheir hot new feature at apple is strabucks integration.  that just . . sucks.23:12
keesjI solved this problem earlyer but I really don't rember how. I am updating a repository and the "icons" are not put in the Packages.gz23:13
keesjI used: dpkg-scanpackages -m  repository /dev/null23:14
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