| KaylaKaze | alright, I got a cascading memu tester program and it doesn't work so hopefully running it with debugging will help | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| pupnik | does anybody know if there's a 2.2 scratchbox+maemo vmware image for download that KaylaKaze could try? | 00:03 |
| KaylaKaze | and it won't debug :-( | 00:03 |
| KaylaKaze | I think there is | 00:03 |
| pupnik | i'm trying to guess what it could be | 00:04 |
| pupnik | when you log into scratchbox, do you see any error messages? | 00:04 |
| KaylaKaze | no | 00:04 |
| pupnik | if you run standalone programs, do they work? | 00:05 |
| KaylaKaze | the only error messages I get are from Xephyr saying it's removing a couple fonts from the list. I thought that may be the problem at first, except, in that split second the submenu comes up, I can see that it's rendering the text fine | 00:05 |
| KaylaKaze | standalone as in what? | 00:05 |
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| keesj | can somebody try to download the text input these on the n800? on my device it gets pretty large | 00:07 |
| m-vo | KaylaKaze, sounds like the infamous "invisible window" bug: IIRC matchbox will immediately close the menu under certain circumstances, such as when there is a special toplevel window somewhere. | 00:07 |
| keesj | here is the url http://maemo.org/intro/presentations/text_input_on_mobile_devices-master-s_thesis_document.html | 00:07 |
| m-vo | I don't have any details, sorry. | 00:08 |
| keesj | and it's a different size every time! i will file a bug I guess | 00:08 |
| KaylaKaze | I'm tryign to find that vmware file | 00:09 |
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| KaylaKaze | there's a subdomain of maemo.org that has them | 00:12 |
| KaylaKaze | but I can't find it. grrr | 00:12 |
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| KaylaKaze | found it and I've got it downloading, but I have no idea what version it is | 00:16 |
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| keesj | perhaps this one http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ | 00:18 |
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| guardian | text input these ? | 00:20 |
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| keesj | guardian: that's what the title is saying :p | 00:21 |
| KaylaKaze | yeah, that's the one I've got on d/l | 00:21 |
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| gwak__ | does anyone know if that vmware/qemu image requires PAE? | 00:23 |
| keesj | what is PAE? | 00:24 |
| gwak__ | "Physical Address Extension" and some kernels require it to boot | 00:25 |
| gwak__ | my Pentium M chip does not have this feature i guess | 00:26 |
| KaylaKaze | a VMWare image is a virtual machine | 00:26 |
| keesj | qemu does not need that | 00:26 |
| KaylaKaze | it doesn't care what hardware you're on | 00:27 |
| KaylaKaze | (as long as it's powerful enough) | 00:27 |
| keesj | perhaps very recent version that use the now open sourced kqemu | 00:27 |
| pupnik | it requires x86 :) | 00:27 |
| gwak__ | hmm, because when i try to boot the vmware image from here:http://linuxtracker.org/torrents-details.php?id=3468 | 00:28 |
| keesj | it's getting pretty crazy , sbox in a VMWare | 00:29 |
| KaylaKaze | why's that crazy? | 00:29 |
| gwak__ | it refuses to boot in vmware player with the message:Unkown interrupt or Fault ... | 00:29 |
| pupnik | gwak__: is right about PAE | 00:29 |
| keesj | not crazy , just a lot of work | 00:30 |
| pupnik | it saves work by letting people get started without scratchbox setup | 00:31 |
| KaylaKaze | how so? | 00:31 |
| gwak__ | its better if i learn about the toolchain first hand | 00:31 |
| KaylaKaze | I meant that to keesj, btw | 00:31 |
| keesj | KaylaKaze: not for users, for creating such tools. | 00:31 |
| KaylaKaze | oh, ok | 00:31 |
| keesj | NokiaOS! | 00:32 |
| keesj | with shipped eclipse/python and development tools | 00:32 |
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| KaylaKaze | I pretty much would have that now, if it was working right | 00:32 |
| KaylaKaze | thought 3.1 seemed to work fine yesterday | 00:33 |
| KaylaKaze | though* | 00:33 |
| KaylaKaze | but I haven't tried 3.1 again since reinstalling ubuntu | 00:33 |
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| keesj | I installed ubuntu(festy) desktop for the first time I my life a few day's ago. I now have maemo 2.2 and 3.1 installed, the only real new problem for me was the dns that was not working | 00:36 |
| guardian | what's the relationship between vmware and qemu anyway ? | 00:36 |
| guardian | lately i saw threads on ubuntu forums saying that you need to install qemu to have winxp run inside a vmware player (running on ubuntu) | 00:36 |
| guardian | however i never needed qemu | 00:36 |
| KaylaKaze | keesj: yeah, I had that problem at first | 00:36 |
| KaylaKaze | but fixed it no prob | 00:36 |
| keesj | guardian: I think there is no relation between them | 00:37 |
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| guardian | now that i'm googling for it | 00:37 |
| guardian | it seems that it's just for the qemu-img tool | 00:38 |
| guardian | but i've always used easyvmx.com | 00:38 |
| guardian | anyway, good night :) | 00:38 |
| KaylaKaze | what does that do? allow you to make vmx images without workstation? | 00:38 |
| guardian | yes | 00:38 |
| guardian | vmx config files | 00:38 |
| guardian | ++ | 00:38 |
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| KaylaKaze | I should stop playing around with development for a little while and spend some time cleaning my HD :-) | 00:39 |
| keesj | greetings | 00:40 |
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| monteslu | will setting a password for "user" break anything? I have no idea what the default one is for trying to connect to the dropbear ssh server | 02:00 |
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| KaylaKaze | starting up wmware image | 02:19 |
| KaylaKaze | well, I don't have that bug in this version, but I can't tell if this is 2.2 or 3.1 | 02:23 |
| KaylaKaze | looks like 3.1 | 02:23 |
| KaylaKaze | network on it doesn't work... | 02:27 |
| monteslu | anyone using the dropbear server on a 770 (IT 2006) ? | 02:31 |
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| KaylaKaze | switched the network card from NAT to bridged and it works. If you're coding for the 800, I'd say to definitely get this image | 02:44 |
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| ttuttle | ericz: "4:55 PM Arrived at FedEx location IRVING, TX"!!!!! It's on its way! | 03:08 |
| ttuttle | ericz: Check yours. | 03:08 |
| ttuttle | ericz: Oh, and http://www.xkcd.com/c281.html. | 03:08 |
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| ericz | ttuttle, haha | 03:13 |
| ericz | mine still says Package data transmitted | 03:14 |
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| monteslu | you guys waiting for the woot deal? | 03:21 |
| ericz | yeah | 03:21 |
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| ericz | expected delivery date of mine is the 29th, and as far as i know, it's still in texas, and i'm in virginia | 03:22 |
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| monteslu | I shoulda picked up a second one, too bad I used all my money on women and coke | 03:22 |
| ttuttle | monteslu: Yeah. | 03:26 |
| ttuttle | monteslu: lol | 03:27 |
| ericz | ttuttle, mine hasn't changed :( | 03:28 |
| ericz | and i'm closer to texas than you | 03:28 |
| ericz | ! | 03:28 |
| ttuttle | ericz: Awwww, sorry. Neither has my brother's. | 03:28 |
| ttuttle | ericz: Yeah, woot is strange. | 03:28 |
| KaylaKaze | mine still says it hasn't been shipped yhet | 03:28 |
| ericz | brother in massachusetts too? | 03:28 |
| ttuttle | ericz: And, I think, a little lazy. | 03:28 |
| ttuttle | KaylaKaze: Use your order ID as the reference number on FedEx.com, see what it says. | 03:29 |
| monteslu | I really gotta figure out the sshd thing on the 770, code testing is a bitch if i gotta keep pluggin it in to USB | 03:29 |
| ttuttle | KaylaKaze: Mine still officially hasn't shipped, but FedEx has it. | 03:29 |
| ttuttle | ericz: Yeah, twin brother, same house. | 03:29 |
| ericz | ah | 03:29 |
| ericz | monteslu, is ssh hard to install? that's what i was hoping to install right away. | 03:29 |
| monteslu | installing is easy | 03:29 |
| monteslu | and the client works just fine | 03:29 |
| ericz | ...but? | 03:29 |
| ttuttle | server doesn't work? | 03:30 |
| monteslu | I'm trying to get to the server on the device from my workstation | 03:30 |
| ericz | oh | 03:30 |
| monteslu | it works, but I have no idea what "user"'s password is :) | 03:30 |
| monteslu | I would just set it, but I don't want to lock myself out of the device | 03:30 |
| ericz | :-/ i want this thing to Just Work and be easy | 03:30 |
| monteslu | it will | 03:31 |
| KaylaKaze | someone was saying they got theirs already and the page still says it hasn't been shipped | 03:31 |
| monteslu | but I'm developing on it | 03:31 |
| ericz | haha, i want to install ssh though | 03:31 |
| monteslu | ssh client works flawlessly and installs easy enough through the package manager | 03:31 |
| ericz | i want the ssh server to work easy :P | 03:32 |
| monteslu | its a great little device | 03:32 |
| ericz | i heard you have to use dropbear? i've never messed with that | 03:32 |
| monteslu | it works, just uhh.. I havent connected yet :) | 03:32 |
| monteslu | yeah, dropbear is just like openssh, just smaller | 03:32 |
| ericz | is their a 'telnet' ? | 03:32 |
| monteslu | lemme check... | 03:32 |
| ericz | i really need something [telnet for example] to port knock | 03:33 |
| monteslu | not by default, but I imagine that would be very, very easy to port | 03:33 |
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| ericz | i have a feeling there's no bash command for "knock" or a knockd server :P i love port knocking. | 03:33 |
| KaylaKaze | you said put in the order as the tracking number? It seems kinda short for that | 03:34 |
| ericz | KaylaKaze, put the order number in as "Track By Reference" | 03:34 |
| KaylaKaze | oooh! Is there an ansi telnet terminal for 770 so I can MUD on it? | 03:34 |
| KaylaKaze | found it. Expected on the 30th :-( | 03:36 |
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| ericz | mudding would not be easy i bet, with the onscreen keyboard anyway | 03:37 |
| KaylaKaze | WTF! this VMWare image won't let me su | 03:38 |
| KaylaKaze | and if I can't su, I can't fix the port number thing that scratchbox bitches about | 03:39 |
| KaylaKaze | ah, got it | 03:39 |
| KaylaKaze | sudo su | 03:39 |
| KaylaKaze | and I still have that problem with the 2.2 not working | 03:41 |
| KaylaKaze | maybe it's the scratchbox version | 03:41 |
| KaylaKaze | 3.1 version is still looking fine | 03:43 |
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| KaylaKaze | nope, right version of scratchbox... | 03:47 |
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| ttuttle | adoyle: You have FiOS. Bastard. | 03:52 |
| ttuttle | adoyle: /me wants it. | 03:52 |
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| monteslu | KaylaKaze, have you done any bluetooth stuff through maemo not on the device ? | 03:55 |
| monteslu | ...maybe I should just do the development on my app as a standard python-gtk app, and then hildonize it afterword | 03:57 |
| KaylaKaze | no | 03:57 |
| KaylaKaze | I haven't been able to get anythign but 3.1 to work yet :-( | 03:57 |
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| KaylaKaze | I get a weird screen in Xrphyr | 03:57 |
| monteslu | I won't be using 3.x anytime soon, at least until IT 2007 gets a real port to the 770 | 03:57 |
| KaylaKaze | (I'm able to compare it to 3.1 and determine the 2.2 screen looks weird) | 03:57 |
| KaylaKaze | if anyone thinks they can help, I can try to set Display to connect to your Xephyr server so you can see what it's dowing | 03:58 |
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| KaylaKaze | maybe I can dev with the 3.1 and then just compile it with the 2.2 target... | 04:00 |
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| KaylaKaze | 3.1 installed on my ubuntu VM and working fine. 2.2 still not working though | 04:33 |
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| KaylaKaze | no big surprise but my menutest program works perfectly in 3.1 while the 2.2 has that problem thing | 04:40 |
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| KaylaKaze | oooo! I found a PHP5 for 770! | 05:01 |
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| ericz | really? i wonder how hard it is to code php with onscreen keyboard... | 05:05 |
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| KaylaKaze | why would you want to do that? | 05:08 |
| ericz | i like php? | 05:09 |
| KaylaKaze | yeah, but why would you want to code it with an onscreen keyboard? | 05:10 |
| ericz | maybe not enough to code it via onscreen keyboard though | 05:10 |
| KaylaKaze | btw, do you know if the opera in 2006 can handle XMLHTTP requests? | 05:11 |
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| ericz | i don't even have my 770 yet | 05:11 |
| ericz | i know almost nothing | 05:11 |
| KaylaKaze | same here. Mine won't be here until saturday | 05:11 |
| ericz | ah | 05:11 |
| goat | I think opera has worked with xmlhttp for a long time, so I'd think so | 05:11 |
| KaylaKaze | I think the woot may have been the first time a lot of people had ever heard of these things | 05:12 |
| ericz | was first time i'd heard of it.. and it looked awesome.. now i'm here. :P | 05:12 |
| KaylaKaze | I know I hadn't 'cause I've been wanting something like this for years | 05:12 |
| KaylaKaze | though I wanteds it at below $150 and this finally got down that far | 05:13 |
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| ericz | i can't believe buy.com offered it for just a bit more the next day, and with google checkout as a new user there's $10 discount, i could've got it for a whole $5 less (and maybe even shipped faster)! | 05:14 |
| KaylaKaze | with PHP, I can make a webpage of a D&D character sheet and use that as my character sheet at my game sunday and I can make it autoupdate and stuff, and with PHP, I'll be able to save it to a file or soemthing when done. | 05:14 |
| KaylaKaze | and I won't have to drain my battery using wifi to do it connected to my home http | 05:14 |
| ericz | hrm, woot just emailed me saying it shipped | 05:15 |
| ericz | but the fedex tracking page hasnt changed :p | 05:15 |
| KaylaKaze | yeah, I got mine a little bit ago | 05:15 |
| KaylaKaze | but fedex said they had my shipment since this morning | 05:15 |
| ericz | mine still looks like it's in texas "Package data transmitted" | 05:16 |
| ericz | i have serious doubts about it making it to virginia in two days | 05:16 |
| KaylaKaze | this is odd. I can't find any of the maemo app download places withg this PHP | 05:16 |
| Mikho | don't play D&D but instead GURPS | 05:17 |
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| KaylaKaze | I have GURPS but D&D is what is played here with the RPGA and all | 05:18 |
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| cnc | dang, im in way over my head with this 770 | 05:27 |
| KaylaKaze | yay! found comic book reader | 05:27 |
| cnc | i really should stop visiting woot.com | 05:27 |
| KaylaKaze | why? | 05:29 |
| cnc | countless hours is why | 05:29 |
| cnc | first it was those damn bags of shit that kept me up at night | 05:29 |
| KaylaKaze | ? | 05:30 |
| KaylaKaze | kept you up? | 05:30 |
| cnc | ... | 05:30 |
| cnc | woot.com`s bag of crap promo | 05:30 |
| cnc | keeps everyone up | 05:30 |
| KaylaKaze | yeah, but how does that keep you up? | 05:30 |
| ericz | woot addiction isn't healthy | 05:31 |
| ericz | :/ | 05:31 |
| cnc | i dont know, i just... cant leave the woot | 05:31 |
| KaylaKaze | I don't have ebough $ for woot addiction | 05:31 |
| cnc | they have cheap stuff | 05:32 |
| KaylaKaze | not cheap enough | 05:32 |
| KaylaKaze | usually | 05:32 |
| cnc | they have like 8000000000 kensington products | 05:33 |
| KaylaKaze | now they need a big sale on 2GB RS-MMC cards | 05:33 |
| cnc | lol cheapest i found was amazon for 20$ for 1gb | 05:33 |
| ericz | haha, i was hoping they'd do a bluetooth keyboard sale | 05:33 |
| KaylaKaze | bluetooth kb doesn't work on the 770, does it? unless you go for the HE of 2007 | 05:34 |
| ericz | i think it does | 05:34 |
| ericz | maybe? | 05:34 |
| cnc | ive been doing research on trying to connect my camera | 05:34 |
| KaylaKaze | 'cause I was reading about the HE and one of the things they said was good about it was support for BT KB | 05:34 |
| KaylaKaze | for USB host? | 05:34 |
| cnc | seems like an assload of work to get usb to work | 05:34 |
| KaylaKaze | yep | 05:35 |
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| KaylaKaze | which sucks 'cause I have gigs of SD cards | 05:35 |
| cnc | ya me too | 05:35 |
| cnc | we need to find someone with a stock of rsmmc | 05:35 |
| cnc | and trade | 05:36 |
| ericz | wikipedia says Connectivity IEEE 802.11, Bluetooth | 05:36 |
| KaylaKaze | it has BT, but not necessarily for KB | 05:38 |
| KaylaKaze | it uses the BT to connect to cell phones | 05:38 |
| KaylaKaze | to use them as modems | 05:38 |
| ericz | :-/ so you have to do weird stuff to make keyboards work? | 05:38 |
| KaylaKaze | apparently | 05:38 |
| cnc | solder some stuff | 05:38 |
| cnc | and learn linux | 05:38 |
| ericz | really? you have to solder?! | 05:39 |
| cnc | i think, if you want to connect usb | 05:39 |
| ericz | that's lame.. there's no like real support for a real keyboard at all? | 05:39 |
| cnc | gotta buy some usb hub and wire power into it somehow | 05:39 |
| ericz | sucks | 05:40 |
| cnc | maybe im reading outdated tutorials | 05:40 |
| KaylaKaze | or you can use a USB recharger pack | 05:40 |
| KaylaKaze | like the Mintyboost | 05:40 |
| KaylaKaze | you have to supply the USB port with 5V of power to make it turn on | 05:40 |
| cnc | ah, yep | 05:43 |
| cnc | you find a cheap place for a 2gb card yet? | 05:43 |
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| KaylaKaze | nope | 05:50 |
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| KaylaKaze | crap, meritline doens't have any rsmmc at all | 05:53 |
| cnc | mintyboost | 05:54 |
| KaylaKaze | wait... are the MMC Mobile the same as RS just faster transfer speed? | 05:54 |
| cnc | looks like 2aa`s | 05:54 |
| cnc | There are already Kernel updates for the new Tablet OS 2006 versions which allow the 770 to use larger than 1GB Rs-MMS or Mmc-Mobile media. | 05:55 |
| cnc | says the google | 05:56 |
| cnc | isnt the mintyboost only 3v? | 05:56 |
| KaylaKaze | no | 05:56 |
| KaylaKaze | mintyboost has a power booster circuit | 05:56 |
| KaylaKaze | takes in 3V and puts out 5V | 05:57 |
| cnc | ah | 05:57 |
| KaylaKaze | and MMCMobile chips are compatible with RSMMC devices | 05:57 |
| cnc | they the same dimensions? | 05:57 |
| KaylaKaze | yeah | 05:57 |
| KaylaKaze | but still no cheaper | 05:58 |
| KaylaKaze | I'm still seeing about $20 a gig | 05:58 |
| ericz | im seeing stuff about VoIP using n770.. is there an audio input? | 05:58 |
| cnc | havent got that far yet | 06:00 |
| cnc | im still on the usb thing lol | 06:00 |
| KaylaKaze | there's a microphone | 06:01 |
| ericz | built in microphone? | 06:01 |
| KaylaKaze | yes | 06:01 |
| ericz | speakers too? | 06:01 |
| KaylaKaze | yes | 06:01 |
| ericz | there's a port for headphones though, right? | 06:02 |
| KaylaKaze | probably] | 06:02 |
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| KaylaKaze | http://europe.nokia.com/A4145105 | 06:03 |
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| Tadafumi | Hi | 07:00 |
| Tadafumi | Tadafumi | 07:05 |
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| hieptranit | hey Tada | 07:10 |
| hieptranit | help | 07:10 |
| KaylaKaze | wow! GTK+ sucks really bad | 07:12 |
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| Tadafumi | Hi | 07:13 |
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| mightyhippy | hi | 07:14 |
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| hieptranit | hi | 07:15 |
| Tadafumi | hi | 07:15 |
| Mikho | hi | 07:15 |
| KaylaKaze | GTK is solid proof that linux programmers are insane | 07:21 |
| Tadafumi | Does anyone know other tutorials regarding "How to write a new application to maemo 3.0" for beginners? | 07:24 |
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| KaylaKaze | Tadafumi: get Eclipse and Laika | 07:32 |
| KaylaKaze | they make it much easier | 07:32 |
| KaylaKaze | but from what I'm reading, GTK just plain sucks anyhway | 07:33 |
| zuh | Everything sucks, some things just tend to suck less than others... | 07:34 |
| Tadafumi | Thanks | 07:34 |
| Tadafumi | Does Laika support maemo3.0? | 07:48 |
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| `0660 | what's wrong with gtk? | 07:55 |
| KaylaKaze | Tadafumi: yes | 07:55 |
| KaylaKaze | gtk has that block packing thing. It's annoying. I want to put an edit box anywhere in a window that I want | 07:55 |
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| KaylaKaze | right now I'm seeing if I can make the program I was thinking of in HTML. | 07:57 |
| KaylaKaze | HTML, php, and JS that is | 07:57 |
| sxpert | what's that supposed to mean ? | 07:57 |
| KaylaKaze | what's what supposed to mean? | 07:57 |
| sxpert | absolute pixel positionning a la visual basic is evil | 07:57 |
| `0660 | KaylaKaze, doesn't GtkFixed do just that? | 07:58 |
| KaylaKaze | I don't know. That wasn't listed in the docs I was looking at | 07:58 |
| `0660 | https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/doc/api/gtk/GtkFixed.html | 07:59 |
| KaylaKaze | and absolute positioning is fine depending on what you're tryign to acomplish | 07:59 |
| zuh | Yes, if you put a gtkfixed as the child to your window, you could simulate all the horrors of fixed layouts | 07:59 |
| `0660 | so gtk sucks because you don't know how to read the manual or use google? :) | 07:59 |
| KaylaKaze | thanks | 07:59 |
| KaylaKaze | well, how was I supposed to know it was called GtkFixed? | 07:59 |
| KaylaKaze | can't search for it if I don't know what it's called | 08:00 |
| KaylaKaze | that'll be very useful. Thank you | 08:00 |
| `0660 | well i used words "gtk absolute positioning" | 08:00 |
| KaylaKaze | but it still may be easier to do this D&D character sheet in HTML, at least for now :-) | 08:01 |
| KaylaKaze | hopefully opera will be able to read it okay | 08:01 |
| `0660 | html is always better if it's enough | 08:01 |
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| KaylaKaze | see, what I want to do is have something where if you tap the screen in a certain place, you can make an edit box there. | 08:02 |
| KaylaKaze | that's an over simplification but accurate enough | 08:03 |
| `0660 | haven't seen that in html but i guess it would be doable :) | 08:03 |
| KaylaKaze | well, I'm not trying to do THAT in HTM. That's what I ultimately want to do on the N770 | 08:03 |
| `0660 | suddenly gtk seems to be the best tool to accomplish that :) | 08:04 |
| KaylaKaze | but I was thinking of making just something rough for my D&D game sunday, so I was looking at GTK and Gazpacho. | 08:04 |
| KaylaKaze | so, yeah, GTK looks good for it with the GtkFixed :-) | 08:05 |
| KaylaKaze | do you have a 770? | 08:06 |
| KaylaKaze | ... maybe I should just forget about trying to make the webpage fit the graphic of the sheet and just make a page with equal functionality... | 08:09 |
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| `0660 | i have n800 | 08:14 |
| KaylaKaze | well.. I guess the opera versions should be close enough. I was just checking if the opera was tabbed like the PC versions | 08:15 |
| `0660 | i don't think it is | 08:15 |
| KaylaKaze | well, mine shoudld be here saturday so I guess I'll have time to make whatever adjustments I may need, in case the opera isn't as functional as I'd like | 08:16 |
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| unique311 | I need some assistance | 09:19 |
| unique311 | I want a script that will..... | 09:19 |
| unique311 | move a directory to a backup folder when i run it | 09:20 |
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| unique311 | rephrase that | 09:21 |
| unique311 | move a folder .folder to a backup folder i made.... | 09:21 |
| unique311 | and move it back to the default location when i run it again. | 09:21 |
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| cy- | yo | 10:31 |
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| konttori | hey, is there sdhc support in the next firmware? | 10:50 |
| konttori | Just wondering if I should get a new SD card or not. | 10:50 |
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| konttori | I'm pumped to two 2gb sd cards and now that I us uktube, the videos are taking more and more space. | 10:50 |
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| zuh | I'd go for it even if it isn't | 10:58 |
| zuh | Flashing the kernel isn't that difficult (nor any riskier than flashing the whole firmware really) | 10:58 |
| zuh | Unless you are bound to just Windows of course... | 10:59 |
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| unique311 | k, i made the mv scripts i needed... | 11:00 |
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| unique311 | Now i know how i can incoperate them to the app, but the scripts require a restart when run... | 11:00 |
| unique311 | should i make that restart happen when the script is run..or let it be a manually thing that the user do? | 11:01 |
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| zuh | User-initiated, unless it's absolutely not possible to continue using the device without risking data loss | 11:05 |
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| zuh | It's always annoying if something forcefully reboots the machine, at least if it's not totally clear in the beginning | 11:06 |
| unique311 | thats very true.. | 11:06 |
| zuh | You might have a good web page open that you'd like to bookmark but didn't yet | 11:06 |
| unique311 | simple script that moves .icons to a bakup folder...which makes mouse cursor visible... | 11:07 |
| unique311 | hmmm | 11:08 |
| unique311 | even then its difficult to have quicksynergy work side by side with it. becuase of that reboot... | 11:09 |
| unique311 | how do i restart whatever handles the mouse cursor without restarting the device? | 11:10 |
| unique311 | should be a mouse daemon running correct? | 11:10 |
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| sbaturzioAtWork | Aloha! | 11:11 |
| zuh | unique311: It's the X server that handles the mouse, and for that to be restarted, you have to shut down most of the running software anyway. That said, AFAIK it should be possible to set the cursor theme without restarting. | 11:12 |
| zuh | I'm not exactly sure how though, never looked into mouse cursors that much... | 11:12 |
| unique311 | i found this tutorial on how to a while ago.. | 11:13 |
| unique311 | but seem to be MIA now.. | 11:13 |
| unique311 | other choice to make the mouse cursor visible is to delete the symlink .icons folder in the /hom/user directory | 11:14 |
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| c0ffee | you can set the cursor theme with xsetroot -cursor_name <cursor> or something | 11:18 |
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| unique311 | coomand not found | 11:21 |
| unique311 | command* | 11:21 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:26 |
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| cy- | sup Jaffa | 11:31 |
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| unique311 | Copy a visible Xcur file to /usr/share/icons/ (i.e. dot from here. dot is part of the debian xcursor-themes package) | 12:06 |
| unique311 | cd usr/share/icons/xcursor-transparent/cursors && mv transp trans.orig && ln -s ../../dot transp | 12:06 |
| unique311 | still requires a reboot... | 12:06 |
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| unique311 | that requires replacing the dot transp with an visible dot cursor... | 12:08 |
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| unique311 | deleting or removing the ~.icons symlink provides the default black arrow cursor. | 12:09 |
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| unique311 | instead of having 2 scripts, i would like to merge them together and instead pass the script with and option. | 12:29 |
| unique311 | example | 12:30 |
| unique311 | sh script -transp | 12:30 |
| unique311 | or sh script -visible | 12:30 |
| unique311 | help with this | 12:30 |
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| felipec | unique311: if [ "$1" == "-transp]; then whatever; fi | 12:33 |
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| unique311 | thanks | 12:33 |
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| pupnik_ | "-transp" | 12:36 |
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| unique311 | whatever is the command i want to pass.. | 12:38 |
| unique311 | or then whatever | 12:38 |
| pupnik | yeah | 12:38 |
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| jani | hey, does anyone know about maemo dbus stuff ? | 12:49 |
| jani | i got some issues where im sending *and* receiving messages but i cant see the appropriate messages in dbus-monitor output =( | 12:50 |
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| Gathaja | I tried to use wlancond with dbus and didn't see anything on dbus-monitor either | 13:01 |
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| unique311 | //// #!/bin/bash | 13:06 |
| unique311 | RV=/bin/rm; | 13:06 |
| unique311 | CP=/bin/cp; | 13:06 |
| unique311 | if [ "$1 == "-transp" ]; then $RM -r "/home/user/.icons"; | 13:06 |
| unique311 | if [ "$1 == "-visible" ]; then $CP -R "/home/user/iconsBAK/.Icons" "/home/user/" | 13:06 |
| unique311 | exit 0 | 13:06 |
| unique311 | fi | 13:06 |
| unique311 | //////// | 13:06 |
| unique311 | returning errors... | 13:06 |
| unique311 | hmmm | 13:06 |
| zuh | RV? | 13:06 |
| zuh | Probably should be RM... | 13:07 |
| unique311 | it is rm | 13:07 |
| dpb_ | RV=/bin/rm; <- that surely is RV.. | 13:08 |
| unique311 | seems like its running both commands... | 13:08 |
| unique311 | i know.. | 13:08 |
| unique311 | on i fixed that.. | 13:08 |
| cy- | there any software for OSX to interface with the n800? syncing contacts, moving files over usb, etc ? I'm not finding dick :P | 13:08 |
| unique311 | that was a copy and paste from the destop notepad | 13:08 |
| dpb_ | most likely there isn't cy- :p | 13:09 |
| cy- | :( | 13:09 |
| cy- | that sucks | 13:09 |
| unique311 | but it looks like even with the -flags its running both commands... | 13:09 |
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| dpb_ | Is there some for linux even? | 13:09 |
| sp3000 | "$1 == "? | 13:09 |
| cy- | I suppose you could rock out a samba or nfs share | 13:09 |
| zuh | cy-: For USB, it should function just like any other mass storage device (with an SD in the external slot) | 13:09 |
| mattsqz | sync contacts..? hm | 13:09 |
| cy- | but I don't have an access point here so no networking available :( | 13:09 |
| mattsqz | rsync? | 13:09 |
| cy- | zuh: really? I can't get osx to see the device | 13:10 |
| cy- | hmm | 13:10 |
| cy- | maybe there's some USB prefs or something | 13:10 |
| * cy- tries again | 13:10 | |
| mattsqz | osx/darwin is bastardised bsd | 13:10 |
| zuh | Or it could be that some process is using the card and it refuses to unmount it... | 13:10 |
| unique311 | definitely running both commands even thought i run the individual - | 13:11 |
| dpb_ | unique311: did you see what sp3000 said? | 13:11 |
| suihkulokki | cy-: do you have a memory card in the n800 ? | 13:11 |
| dpb_ | you're missing some "s | 13:11 |
| konttori | cy.: Just plug n800 in and you should see both your SD cards mounted | 13:11 |
| cy- | suihkulokki: yeah | 13:11 |
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| cy- | newp :( | 13:11 |
| cy- | suck | 13:11 |
| cy- | oh damn | 13:11 |
| cy- | there it goes! | 13:11 |
| cy- | noice ;) | 13:11 |
| cy- | just didn't mount the first time around for some reason.. yeah I figured it would treat it as removable storage | 13:12 |
| zuh | unique311: and you have only one 'fi' there, but two 'if's... | 13:12 |
| cy- | well damn that's nice | 13:12 |
| * mattsqz wonders how FAT was allowed to become the common usb storage format | 13:12 | |
| b0unc3 | unique311: fi at the end of each if ... | 13:12 |
| jani | unique311: isnt that missing one "fi" ? | 13:12 |
| unique311 | k | 13:12 |
| suihkulokki | mattsqz: have you heard about this "windows" thingy? | 13:13 |
| unique311 | not understanding the S1 ==" sp300 | 13:13 |
| unique311 | not understanding the $1 ==" sp300 | 13:13 |
| cy- | now if only there was an easy way to remove the memory card on the bottom of the n800 | 13:13 |
| jani | aah true, you are also missing " =)) | 13:13 |
| zuh | mattsqz: poor support for real filesystems in the market leader OS, nothing more... | 13:13 |
| mattsqz | suihkulokki: is that the thing with curtains? | 13:13 |
| cy- | fingernail I guess :) | 13:14 |
| jani | if [ "$1 == "-transp" ] .. -> "$1" | 13:14 |
| unique311 | define $1 | 13:14 |
| jani | $1 is commnandline parameter ? | 13:14 |
| jani | -n | 13:14 |
| jani | unique311: are you writing that or just pasting funny code ? =)) | 13:15 |
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| unique311 | pasting....writing it on wordpad then pasting for you guys to see. | 13:16 |
| unique311 | also running it on my n800 | 13:16 |
| unique311 | just want the code to do one thing if i run it with the -transp option | 13:17 |
| unique311 | and another if run with the -visible | 13:17 |
| unique311 | but i don'y not want it to run both of the codes | 13:17 |
| unique311 | which is what it is doing now.. | 13:17 |
| unique311 | regardless of the option. | 13:17 |
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| unique311 | should else be added in between the 2 | 13:19 |
| jani | =) | 13:19 |
| Gathaja | could someone recommend some vector format & library that could read it? librsvg( or svg itself ) seems to be quite slow | 13:23 |
| jani | unique311: http://www.pastebin.ca/593456 | 13:24 |
| unique311 | thanks you kindly jani | 13:25 |
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| unique311 | thanks alot jani... | 13:37 |
| unique311 | its working | 13:38 |
| unique311 | considering theres activity in here now, next question might get answered.. | 13:38 |
| jani | =) | 13:49 |
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| roope | http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2007/06/27/technology/28pogue.2.L.jpg | 13:57 |
| cy- | hmm | 13:59 |
| cy- | bored | 14:00 |
| cy- | :P | 14:00 |
| jani | whats the next question then unique ? | 14:00 |
| cy- | anyone use osx's internet connection sharing to proxy the n800 to the intarweb? | 14:00 |
| unique311 | tis a nice keypad... | 14:00 |
| unique311 | oh... | 14:00 |
| unique311 | its about the mouse cursor... | 14:00 |
| unique311 | the script is to make the mousecursor visible | 14:01 |
| unique311 | now it requires a restart..which sucks.. | 14:01 |
| jani | roope: thats iphone ? | 14:01 |
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| gla55 | thats iphone | 14:01 |
| unique311 | yes | 14:01 |
| unique311 | looks like it | 14:01 |
| konttori | roope: wicked! | 14:01 |
| unique311 | thats safari running | 14:01 |
| unique311 | safari mobile.. | 14:01 |
| unique311 | lol | 14:01 |
| jani | unique311: kill -HUP ? | 14:02 |
| unique311 | but thats the problem i don't want to restart the device | 14:02 |
| unique311 | but am not sure what to kill to restart the mouse...so that it is visible after running the script | 14:02 |
| konttori | roope: I think the idea in iphone of using probable next character to enlargen the character hit area is a very good one. Might work for maemo as well. | 14:02 |
| jani | unique311: hup is not kill signal, if you sent hup to the process you need restarting, if it has decent design, it should just reload the new configs and not to stop anything .. | 14:03 |
| gwak__ | konttori: i agree, a really good idea from apple | 14:03 |
| konttori | Also, I like in that iphone example the idea that applications can have a action button (like to GO button there) in the keyboard as well. Makes sense. | 14:04 |
| unique311 | ok | 14:04 |
| unique311 | what process does the mouse cursor runs under? | 14:07 |
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| jani | unique311: ofcourse you need to give the pid of the right process as parameter also to kill -HUP.. | 14:07 |
| unique311 | all this can be incorperated in the script... | 14:08 |
| jani | well, its x server thats taking care of the mouse but there's propably some theme engine that does the graphics .. i dont know =) | 14:08 |
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| zuh | X cursors are themed with the X cursor extension, no external engines involved | 14:10 |
| zuh | (afaik ;) | 14:10 |
| henkt | hi, I just downloaded gtk+-2.6.10.ta.bz2 Were I install it and how I install it on my Debian system | 14:10 |
| henkt | any idea? | 14:10 |
| jani | depends on what you wish to do with it | 14:13 |
| henkt | jani, I am studing a tutorial and I want to test this sample aplication with it. I have gtk in scratch box. it can compile it but didnt display the resutl for me | 14:16 |
| jani | well, for starters, if you install scratchbox and maemo sdk, it should come with all the headers/libs necessery, specially gtk libs .. so you dont need to install those manually. | 14:17 |
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| jani | specially, gtk for maemo platform is not vanilla gtk. | 14:19 |
| henkt | yes but I noticed that I have to know a bit more about Gtk be fore I come to maemo. so how can I test gtk sample codes. | 14:19 |
| jani | what distro you are using ? | 14:19 |
| henkt | distro? | 14:20 |
| jani | linux distribution ? | 14:20 |
| henkt | debian | 14:20 |
| henkt | what is better | 14:21 |
| henkt | to install gtk again out side scratchbox | 14:21 |
| jani | if you wish to experiment with just gtk, then its better to install it outside scratchbox .. | 14:22 |
| henkt | I have this file gtk+-2.6.10.ta.bz2 | 14:23 |
| jani | so could just install libgtk2.0-dev for starters and check the sample programs .. | 14:23 |
| henkt | do I say #install gtk+-2.6.10.ta.bz2 | 14:23 |
| unique311 | kill -hup xserver that'll work won't it? | 14:23 |
| gwak__ | henkt: he is talking about apt-get | 14:24 |
| jani | henkt: prolly alot of easier that you just delete that file and install gtk dev headers via apt-get | 14:24 |
| jani | *alot* easier | 14:24 |
| gwak__ | unless you love compiling 10 other packages first ;-] | 14:25 |
| jani | indeed. | 14:25 |
| jani | which might not be the case here.. just a thought =) | 14:26 |
| henkt | ok but dont I have to put the link on /etc/apt/sources.list | 14:26 |
| henkt | what do I do firest now? | 14:26 |
| cy- | there we go.. hmm | 14:26 |
| cy- | what's the best way to get simple tools like ping/traceroute/nmap/wget/etc? | 14:26 |
| cy- | apt? | 14:27 |
| gwak__ | heknt: | 14:27 |
| jani | apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev | 14:27 |
| gwak__ | sudo apt-get install libgtk2.0-dev | 14:27 |
| jani | outside scratchbox =) | 14:27 |
| henkt | yes let me check | 14:27 |
| cy- | ettercap/kismet/etc would be nice too | 14:28 |
| cy- | I read in some forum that kismet has issues on n800 | 14:28 |
| jani | unique311: replace xserver with the process id of x and it *might* work ;) | 14:30 |
| henkt | jani,gwak, it finished installing | 14:31 |
| henkt | but when I complie with gcc helloWorld.c -o helloWorld `pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-2.0` | 14:31 |
| henkt | it complies it in the scratchbox but not hear | 14:31 |
| henkt | it says | 14:31 |
| jani | drumroll | 14:32 |
| henkt | gcc helloWorld.c -o helloWorld `pkg-config --cflags --libs gtk+-2.0` | 14:32 |
| henkt | bash: gcc: command not found | 14:32 |
| jani | *symbals and snares* =)) | 14:32 |
| unique311 | found it... | 14:33 |
| henkt | jani ?? | 14:33 |
| jani | henkt: sudo apt-get install build-essential | 14:33 |
| gwak__ | henkt: let me see if i can find a howto for gtk development on a debian box | 14:33 |
| jani | henkt: you dont have c compiler installed, so run the command above .. | 14:33 |
| bilboed | Is there a way to have IM conversations in tabs instead of separate windows ? | 14:33 |
| unique311 | /usr/bin/Xomap -mouse tslib -nozap -dpi 96 -wr -nolis | 14:33 |
| unique311 | i think thats it.. | 14:34 |
| unique311 | well it has a mouse option.. | 14:34 |
| jani | =-----------) | 14:34 |
| henkt | jani, ok I am runing it now | 14:34 |
| henkt | yes it complied it now | 14:36 |
| henkt | how to run it? | 14:36 |
| jani | ./helloWorld | 14:37 |
| henkt | yes I get it | 14:37 |
| henkt | I belive If I master GTK I wont do that much to work with maemo | 14:38 |
| jani | prolly noone knows but i got to ask again, anyone familiar with dbus-monitor ? | 14:39 |
| zuh | jani: What about it? | 14:40 |
| gwak__ | jani: have you tried the maemo mailing list? | 14:40 |
| cy- | hmm | 14:41 |
| cy- | is there vncserver available at all? | 14:42 |
| jani | havent yet. | 14:42 |
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| cy- | oo nice, dsniff | 14:43 |
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| rwhitby-n800 | cy-: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/x11vnc/ | 14:46 |
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| rwhitby | but no files there. x11vnc is what you are looking for though | 14:47 |
| cy- | yeah absolutely | 14:47 |
| cy- | that'd be nice | 14:47 |
| cy- | :( hopefully soon! | 14:48 |
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| cy- | people actually running different window managers on this thing? | 14:48 |
| cy- | I see all this gnome stuff | 14:48 |
| rwhitby | cy-: x11vnc does exist - I just can't find it again now | 14:48 |
| cy- | the server? | 14:49 |
| cy- | or just the client? I've seen the client.. | 14:49 |
| rwhitby | server | 14:49 |
| cy- | that'd be dope | 14:49 |
| rwhitby | found it: http://mike.saunby.googlepages.com/x11vncfornokia7702 | 14:51 |
| rwhitby-n800 | I'm typing this via it now ... | 14:53 |
| cy- | interesting | 14:54 |
| cy- | I guess I'll give it a whirle | 14:54 |
| cy- | -e | 14:54 |
| cy- | :) | 14:54 |
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| konttori | Have you guys seen the new york times' iphone diary? It's quite cool. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcRfAaIb2Ro | 15:02 |
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| konttori | Anybody on n800/770 should naturally use uktube to view that ;) | 15:03 |
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| jani | there's no mmc slot in iphone ? | 15:08 |
| konttori | Is there one in the ipods? ;) | 15:09 |
| rwhitby | cy-: http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/n800/using-vncserver-on-the-nokia-n800.html | 15:09 |
| jani | obviously not =) | 15:09 |
| jani | how much free space there is for user data then ? | 15:10 |
| gwak__ | jani: i thought i read the OS is~300MB | 15:10 |
| rwhitby | konttori: using uktube for that right now :-) | 15:10 |
| konttori | great! | 15:10 |
| rwhitby | konttori: worked out google videos yet? ;-) | 15:11 |
| unique311 | jani...made some small changes to the script..was using way too many commands.. | 15:11 |
| unique311 | all i'm using now is the mv command.. | 15:11 |
| unique311 | rename the icons directory to make the cursor visible after restart.. | 15:11 |
| konttori | Well, if someone tells me how I can retrieve the content, I can implement it, but when I had a quick look at the google video pages, they seemed a bit messed up and I thought that google will be killing it soon anyway, so why bother... but really, I would like to do it. | 15:12 |
| unique311 | and to make it transparent again just rename it back to icons.. | 15:12 |
| jani | you could just do symlinks, its propably slightly faster than mv'ing files/dirs around .. | 15:12 |
| konttori | Just haven't had the time/energy. I'm having a flu at the moment. 38 degrees of fever (well, light fever). | 15:12 |
| unique311 | the .icons folder is already a symlink. | 15:13 |
| unique311 | renaming it is the best i can do....it works now..so thats good. | 15:13 |
| jani | that kill hup also worked ? | 15:14 |
| unique311 | no | 15:14 |
| unique311 | didn't try it.. | 15:14 |
| unique311 | not sure about Xomap handling this.. | 15:14 |
| unique311 | well wtf might as well i | 15:14 |
| jani | hehe. | 15:15 |
| jani | it shuts down the whole platform ;)) | 15:15 |
| jani | well, restarts it from group up itseems | 15:15 |
| cy- | rwhitby: noice, works great! | 15:16 |
| rwhitby | konttori: can you add a second button to uktube: "Download Only" ? | 15:16 |
| konttori | I added it already. | 15:17 |
| konttori | I'm writing a blog to launch 0.5 version | 15:17 |
| unique311 | ok | 15:17 |
| unique311 | doing the whole kill -HUP think to xomap is a bad idea | 15:18 |
| unique311 | it basically restarts the danm thing.. | 15:18 |
| cy- | rwhitby: not accepting mouse clicks though | 15:18 |
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| unique311 | i'm thinking the script and a restart will definitely be necessary...if you want to use synergy with a visible mouse... | 15:19 |
| rwhitby | cy-: does for me, just not in the left hand side area | 15:19 |
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| cy- | yeah | 15:20 |
| cy- | okay.. same here | 15:20 |
| cy- | well that kind of sucks cause you can't launch apps then :P | 15:20 |
| rwhitby | um, did you read my blog entry? | 15:20 |
| unique311 | but if you want a visible mouse pointer indefinite..just remove run the script once with -visible. | 15:20 |
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| konttori | UKTUBE 0.5 is out now. | 15:28 |
| konttori | http://konttoristhoughts.blogspot.com/2007/06/uktube-05-out.html | 15:28 |
| cy- | rwhitby: that's really nice for stream tuner | 15:28 |
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| konttori | rwitby: It should make you happy | 15:28 |
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| cy- | rwhitby: http://maemo.org/wiki/notfound/How_to_use_x11vnc_to_%27drive%27_the_N800_from_a_PC is not available. | 15:32 |
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| rwhitby | cy-: not much I can do about that - it's not my page | 15:33 |
| rwhitby | konttori: installing now :-) | 15:33 |
| konttori | cool | 15:33 |
| konttori | let me know if you hit any rough edges. | 15:34 |
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| rwhitby | Hmm - I selected an existing .flv file from the mem card, and hit "Show Original Aspect" but it doesn't seem to play | 15:35 |
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| rwhitby | ok, a different one worked | 15:36 |
| rwhitby | konttori: now you just need a "Delete" button for vidcasts | 15:36 |
| konttori | but there is the save checkbox. | 15:37 |
| konttori | Isn't that enough? | 15:37 |
| rwhitby | here's my use case: | 15:37 |
| rwhitby | 1) use uktube to download a heap of videoa | 15:37 |
| rwhitby | videos | 15:37 |
| rwhitby | 2) catch the bus | 15:37 |
| rwhitby | 3) watch each, and delete after watching | 15:37 |
| rwhitby | 4) end up with space on the memory card for the next download session | 15:37 |
| rwhitby | 5) start work :-( | 15:38 |
| konttori | All right. For the 0.6 version then. | 15:38 |
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| rwhitby | with that, uktube would replace the MPlayer GUI application for me. | 15:38 |
| konttori | otoh, you can always do that in the filemanager. | 15:39 |
| cy- | rwhitby: yeah.. is there a way to launch apps from a vnc client tho? | 15:39 |
| rwhitby | oooh - too many clicks! | 15:39 |
| cy- | rwhitby: that dead link indicates that there is, heh | 15:39 |
| rwhitby | watch, one click to delete, watch next, one click to delete. (I come from a Palm Treo background - maximum of 3 clicks for every operation) | 15:39 |
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| rwhitby | konttori: for bonus points, make the selection box move to the next video in the list after you delete one. saves another two clicks if you're watching a set of videos in order. | 15:40 |
| konttori | Now you're pushing it ;) | 15:41 |
| rwhitby | cy-: use the Function keys like I explained in http://www.rwhitby.net/blog/n800/using-vncserver-on-the-nokia-n800.html | 15:41 |
| konttori | I'll think about it. | 15:41 |
| rwhitby | konttori: admit it - you *love* this feedback. (I'm an open source author too - so I know you do) | 15:42 |
| rwhitby | you'll play coy on the IRC channel, but secretly go an implement the feature while I sleep ;-) | 15:43 |
| konttori | The only thing is that I'd like to make a proper client soon (and not only this 'tool'), so that's why I'm not too eager to keep on improving this one too much. | 15:43 |
| konttori | and yeah, feedback is always a bliss | 15:43 |
| rwhitby | konttori: can it queue downloads? | 15:43 |
| rwhitby | (i.e. paste, paste, paste, paste, download them all overnight) | 15:44 |
| konttori | that's a good idea. i've been thinking about that as well. | 15:45 |
| konttori | Cool, a chart on five reviews on iphone: http://valleywag.com/tech/critical-consensus/the-iphone-scorecard-272765.php | 15:47 |
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| rwhitby | konttori: see the openmoko announcement today? | 15:48 |
| konttori | nope | 15:48 |
| rwhitby | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-June/000013.html | 15:49 |
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| cy- | rwhitby: oh, thanks. I must have missed that URL the first time | 15:52 |
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| gomia1 | hi :-) | 16:00 |
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| gomiam | can anyone point me to a command-line driven method for N800 touch calibration? | 16:01 |
| konttori | Oh! OpenMoko included 3d accelometers in the device. Very wise. | 16:01 |
| gomiam | or, barring that, an explanation about how the calibration program works? | 16:01 |
| konttori | also graphics accelerator sounds very good. | 16:02 |
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| inz | konttori, you mean FIC included 3d accelometers in the Neo 1973 | 16:03 |
| konttori | I hope nokia is able to get the accelerator license in the future. | 16:03 |
| konttori | yeah. | 16:03 |
| Okko | skype out yet? | 16:03 |
| konttori | nope. blogs seem to say it'll come in the mid july. But who knows | 16:05 |
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| Okko | good to know. I thought they said june in january. :) | 16:06 |
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| konttori | I think that's the firmware schedule. some blogs said skype will be a separate app. | 16:10 |
| Okko | firmware for what? | 16:11 |
| konttori | n800 | 16:11 |
| Okko | unrelated to skype? | 16:11 |
| konttori | might be. not sure. | 16:11 |
| gwak__ | from the screenshoot of skype on the n800 id does not look so integreated | 16:12 |
| gomiam | ermm... any apt-get dist-upgrade that requires getting rid of osso-core or osso-core-busybox will probably break my N800, right? | 16:12 |
| gwak__ | me thinks it will be a seperate add-on | 16:12 |
| Jaffa | Evidence suggests that OS 2007 releases pretty much *only* happen these days to enable high-profile third party apps (like Rhapsody, Skype etc.) | 16:12 |
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| gwak__ | Jaffa:that sounds resonable ,but i still think i will not be bundled w/ the firmware | 16:14 |
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| konttori | A nice article on psion 5 series. Man, I loved that device. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/06/26/psion_special/ | 16:20 |
| lardman | Yes, it was an interesting read | 16:20 |
| lardman | and cool device too | 16:20 |
| Jaffa | Especially for an Andrew Orlowski article ;-) | 16:20 |
| gwak__ | loved my series 3 and revo ! | 16:20 |
| lardman | OPL was pretty cool, first thing I learned to program with | 16:21 |
| lardman | accessible as the article says | 16:21 |
| gwak__ | there was the converter app that convert metric<->imperial fluid<->mass and tons more stuff i didnt understand | 16:22 |
| gla55 | hmm | 16:22 |
| lardman | on the revo? I had a 3/3a/5 | 16:22 |
| gla55 | opl. had forgotten about that | 16:22 |
| gla55 | there was opl for s60 1st/2nd ed | 16:22 |
| lardman | But then dropped? | 16:23 |
| gla55 | i'm not aware of anyone porting it to 3rd ed | 16:23 |
| gomiam | I see... the calibration data goes into /etc/pointercal | 16:23 |
| gla55 | http://opl-dev.sourceforge.net/oplseries60.html | 16:23 |
| gomiam | now I only need to make sense of the numbers in there. | 16:23 |
| konttori | Would be much more interesting if they had python + pygame for s60 (IMHO) | 16:24 |
| lardman | gla55: Is the runtime OS? | 16:24 |
| konttori | OTOH: Java pretty much handles the same thing | 16:24 |
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| gwak__ | have to wonder what Symbian would be like if they would of opened it up back in 2000 | 16:25 |
| jani | there is python for s60 i think. | 16:25 |
| konttori | I made a mah jongg game for n-gage with java. Pretty cool stuff. java is quite fast on those devices. | 16:25 |
| konttori | jani: yeah, but no pygame. | 16:25 |
| gla55 | lardman: i think so.. hmm | 16:25 |
| jani | yeah, i was just googling for that. | 16:25 |
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| lardman | While we're talking about python, can one create semi-transparent windows somehow? | 16:26 |
| ttuttle | ericz: "Jun 28, 2007 5:48 AM Left origin IRVING, TX" =D | 16:26 |
| ttuttle | ericz: "Estimated delivery Jun 30, 2007" 8D | 16:26 |
| konttori | In psion, there was always the possibility to embed a drawing to just about anywhere. Now, that's something missing from maemo. | 16:27 |
| konttori | it would really be great to have it | 16:27 |
| lardman | Cool, the runtime is opensource | 16:28 |
| konttori | especially with a lazy-draw kind of smoothing filter. | 16:28 |
| konttori | lardman: take a screenshot of the background, and draw 50% white rect over it and then whatever you want to draw over that? | 16:29 |
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| lardman | konttori: I had thought of that, was wondering if there was an automatic way | 16:29 |
| konttori | ahh... not that I know of. | 16:30 |
| lardman | thanks | 16:30 |
| konttori | as maemo platform doesn't support transparency (yet) | 16:30 |
| konttori | So, if you really need to have such transparency, then pygame is the way to go I think. | 16:30 |
| ttuttle | Transparency is dumb. | 16:31 |
| lardman | bring on support for the PowerVR MBX ;) | 16:31 |
| konttori | Drawing there is relatively fast, so it might work pretty well in many cases | 16:31 |
| ttuttle | All it does is make things harder to read. | 16:31 |
| konttori | lardman: indeed! | 16:31 |
| gwak__ | ttuttle: i would like transparent virtual keyboards | 16:31 |
| gwak__ | but yea its mainly eye candy | 16:31 |
| lardman | ttuttle: Yes, but if it's not stuff you really need to read, or you don't want to adjust the screen layout it might be useful | 16:31 |
| lardman | gwak__: Likewise | 16:32 |
| ttuttle | lardman: Well, if it's unimportant, don't show it, and if it's more important than what's below, make it opaque :-b | 16:33 |
| lardman | :) | 16:33 |
| lardman | On-screen keyboards make apps feel claustrophobic | 16:33 |
| lardman | So even if you don't actually gain much, it feels nicer to use because you can see more of the screen | 16:33 |
| ttuttle | lardman: Hmm. I guess I see what you mean. | 16:34 |
| jani | konttori: do you work for nokia ? =) | 16:34 |
| ttuttle | lardman: What Nokia needs to make is a ~$30-$40 Bluetooth thumb-typing keyboard that clips onto the bottom of the N770/800. | 16:35 |
| konttori | jani: nope | 16:35 |
| lardman | Yes, a cheapo bt kb would be good | 16:35 |
| lardman | http://pocketworkstation.org/ shows an example of a transparent keyboard for the Zaurus 5500 | 16:35 |
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| suihkulokki | konttori: why don't you provide a .install file for ukmp ? | 16:35 |
| gomiam | oh, so true. Cheapest Bt one I have found is a one-handed one that won't show on the manufacturer's page, anyway :-D | 16:36 |
| konttori | suihkulokki: because I don't have a repo that would contain python as well. | 16:36 |
| konttori | As without that, what's the point | 16:36 |
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| lardman | It would be nice if people with BT keyboard would start a wiki page, the thread on the forum is sooo long now & confusing | 16:36 |
| gomiam | almost all Bluetooth keyboards cost more than EUR80 | 16:36 |
| suihkulokki | konttori: maemo extras ? | 16:37 |
| konttori | Nokia should bundle a BT KB with the device for a small added extra (like 30 euros) | 16:37 |
| konttori | suhkulokki: too hard to upload. I've been complaining about that for a while. | 16:37 |
| konttori | And I'm not sure if pyhon is in there even now. | 16:37 |
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| konttori | suihkulokki: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/installation.html | 16:38 |
| konttori | python install even itself needs two repositories at the moment. | 16:38 |
| suihkulokki | konttori: why is that? | 16:39 |
| konttori | Well, some dependencies in the other one. | 16:39 |
| konttori | and they are probably debian fanatics who believe that you shouldn't duplicate packages in multiple repos. | 16:39 |
| konttori | Or something. Go figure. | 16:39 |
| suihkulokki | well that's just broken | 16:40 |
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| * gomiam gets ready to twiddle /etc/pointercal a bit (perhaps I'll be able to type again) | 16:40 | |
| suihkulokki | user should just click in ukmp.install link and that's it | 16:41 |
| konttori | suihkulokki: I completely agree | 16:43 |
| konttori | But it's too much trouble for me to maintain a repo containing all the dependencies. Thus I've been asking Nokia to make it happen that it would be easier for developers to upload to the extras repo. | 16:43 |
| gomiam | quick question: which is the physical touchscreen precision on the N800? | 16:44 |
| gomiam | these /etc/pointercal numbers don't make much sense yet O:-) | 16:45 |
| suihkulokki | gomiam: you can get to the screen calibration with just the device keys | 16:45 |
| gomiam | yes, but it still doesn't calibrate correctly | 16:46 |
| suihkulokki | gomiam: what happens? | 16:46 |
| gomiam | well, the upper part goes well, more or less | 16:46 |
| gomiam | but there's always an upward deviation when reaching the lower part of the screen | 16:47 |
| gomiam | (up to three mm) | 16:47 |
| gomiam | as such, sometimes I can't even press the space bar | 16:47 |
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| gomiam | I've been trying clicking on different places on the calibration screen | 16:47 |
| gomiam | and I'm unable to sort it out. | 16:47 |
| lardman | what's the format of the file, how many numbers? | 16:48 |
| gomiam | seven numbers | 16:48 |
| gomiam | a,b,c,d,e,fs | 16:48 |
| lardman | http://lists.trolltech.com/qt-embedded-interest/2002-03/thread00058-0.html or similar | 16:48 |
| gomiam | oops | 16:48 |
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| gomiam | oh, thanks. I had reached those equations search for "pointercal" on Google | 16:49 |
| gomiam | but no that page, it seems. | 16:49 |
| guardian | please, from Makefile.am i'm trying to do ARCH= $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH) but it doesn't work. does autoconf or automake provide an equivalent variable ??? | 16:49 |
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| gomiam | now I only need to know which corner the (0,0) coordinate is at :-) | 16:51 |
| konttori | top left | 16:51 |
| gomiam | oh, thanks | 16:52 |
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| gomiam | that means I need to make the sixth number a bit larger :-) | 16:52 |
| gomiam | (and, proportionally, the fifth, too) | 16:52 |
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| lardman | So you're suffering from the calibration not working correctly? | 16:53 |
| gomiam | yes | 16:54 |
| gomiam | it gets to be a bit annoying at times | 16:54 |
| lardman | I can't see how that would happen unless the pointercal generation code & touch-to-pixel-coord translation code are different | 16:54 |
| konttori | ahh.. my blog has made it to the planet maemo. | 16:54 |
| gomiam | lardman: no idea, but since I can mess with it now, I can try to :-) | 16:55 |
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| gomiam | oh! | 16:55 |
| gomiam | my modified file segfaults ts_cfg | 16:55 |
| gomiam | I should be so lucky... | 16:56 |
| gomiam | or perhaps ts_cfg requires a file to do its work... | 16:57 |
| gomiam | (looks like it can't work without parameters, bleh) | 16:57 |
| guardian | please, from Makefile.am i'm trying to do ARCH= $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH) but it doesn't work. does autoconf or automake provide an equivalent variable ??? | 16:59 |
| gomiam | no idea, guardian | 17:00 |
| jani | im allmost 100% sure that there's variable for that architecture =) | 17:05 |
| robtaylor | guardian: of course, from autoconf | 17:05 |
| robtaylor | guardian: what are you trying to do? | 17:06 |
| guardian | i have a static library, already compiled for armel and i386 somewhere in my project directory tree | 17:07 |
| lardman | Hmm, on https://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto/, the DSP Programming link is a bit screwed up. Any ideas? | 17:07 |
| guardian | i would like to link against the proper .a depending on what's returned by dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH | 17:07 |
| guardian | lardman: fill a bug ? :) | 17:07 |
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| latzko | hi | 17:08 |
| guardian | so i'm trying to put this line into my Makefile.am | 17:08 |
| guardian | ARCH = $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH) | 17:08 |
| lardman | guardian: I filled in the page yesterday (though confusingly it lost the leading D), and now it both thinks it needs to be created and complains it's akready there | 17:08 |
| gomiam | well, I'll be damned. I must have forgotten that a calibration attempt requires restarting the GUI (which I usually achieve by rebooting) | 17:09 |
| guardian | and this is what automake says | 17:09 |
| guardian | src/Makefile.am:10: shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH: non-POSIX variable name | 17:09 |
| guardian | src/Makefile.am:10: (probably a GNU make extension) | 17:09 |
| gomiam | ok, now it works as it's supposed to. | 17:09 |
| gomiam | whew | 17:09 |
| guardian | any idea robtaylor ? | 17:09 |
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| gomiam | ok, thanks for the help and goodbye (must get back to studying) | 17:10 |
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| latzko | I like to setup an sdk_x86 target according to INSTALL.txt but the recent rootstrap fails to excract and the older one I installed successfuly months ago is good, but apt-get -f install wants to remove the half system, please help | 17:14 |
| guardian | latzko: tried the installation scripts ? they work like a charm | 17:15 |
| lardman | hmm, anyone else found that Latex doesn't work in maemo2.1 scratchbox? | 17:15 |
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| latzko | guardian I did it months ago, should I reinstall sbox too? | 17:17 |
| guardian | don't know | 17:17 |
| guardian | i would try to reinstall sdk first | 17:17 |
| guardian | if it fails | 17:17 |
| lardman | no idea either I'm afraid | 17:17 |
| guardian | wipe scratchbox, reinstall then reinstall sdk | 17:17 |
| guardian | just backup your srcratchbox home | 17:18 |
| latzko | Actually my working target has messed up today, I reinstalled sdk twice but nothing changes | 17:19 |
| latzko | yes, this one left... | 17:19 |
| lardman | Latex gurus, I get this message within scratchbox: http://pastebin.ca/593714 | 17:19 |
| lardman | latzko: Did you re-extract all of scratchbox too? | 17:19 |
| zuh | "latex gurus" :) | 17:19 |
| lardman | yeah, sounds a bit dodgy | 17:20 |
| latzko | I removed the target, setup it, and rootstrap the sdk | 17:20 |
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| guardian | maybe you updated your system and you're facing a side effect | 17:20 |
| lardman | latzko: I had some troubles at one point when I ran out of space while it was extracting to the hidden directory, I couldn't get it to work even once I freed more space | 17:21 |
| lardman | latzko: I'd be tempted to rm -rf /scratchbox and start from scratch | 17:22 |
| latzko | oh,. I will check | 17:22 |
| latzko | ok | 17:22 |
| latzko | so thanks :) | 17:22 |
| latzko | I will reinstall sbox | 17:22 |
| lardman | the hidden directory is in the targets directory (can't remember exact name) | 17:22 |
| lardman | ok | 17:22 |
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| latzko | I have 668M free space for that partition | 17:23 |
| lardman | hmm, no more ideas I'm afraid other than delete & start again. Sorry | 17:24 |
| KaylaKaze | I'm having a problem with my 2.2 SDK where the cascading menus don't work and the taskbar doesn't list running programs, and is somewhat corrupted visually. No one was able to help yhesterday. Anyone here today think they may have a solution? | 17:25 |
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| cy- | hmm | 17:52 |
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| cy- | any noticable performance boost in bumping the virtual memory in control panel? | 17:52 |
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| ||cw | cy-: yes | 18:07 |
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| bstock | anyone know where to get a good 12pt theme for 770? i found this: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/12pt-14pt-os2006-themes/ but there's no way to install it or find the location of any deb files or anything | 18:28 |
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| guardian | is there a way i can know i'm building for armel from configure.ac without relying on dpkg-architecture debian specific command ? | 18:41 |
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| trevarthan | I rewrote ukmp to use mplayer. A2DPD now works with the touch of a button from ukmp. :) I've got some finishing touches to put on it, then I'll release the rewrite sometime next week, I think. | 19:00 |
| ttuttle | mplayer++! | 19:06 |
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| Brenduh | is there a easy way to put the 770 back to factory settings? | 19:10 |
| nomis | Brenduh: reflash it. | 19:11 |
| Brenduh | how do you do that? | 19:11 |
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| nomis | Brenduh: http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto_flashlatestnokiaimagewithlinux/ | 19:12 |
| gla55 | for windows there is nokias official flasher/updater | 19:13 |
| Brenduh | I have windows... I don't have a clue how to do that execute as root stuff | 19:14 |
| Brenduh | ahh so go to nokia and do an update | 19:14 |
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| kakos | So, is a new firmware being released today? | 19:49 |
| ericz | ttuttle, mine arrived in irving, texas last night, and delivery date is the 3rd now, this morning it departed irving | 19:51 |
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| Brenduh | mine still doesn't say it has shipped, but I got it yesterday | 19:53 |
| Brenduh | oh wait just got an email it's shipped | 19:54 |
| Brenduh | lol | 19:54 |
| Jari-- | what sort of audio libraries does Maemo implement usually, I mean with gstreamer you can for example use OSS, I guess Maemo platform isn't OSS compliant? | 19:54 |
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| KaylaKaze | can someone do me a favor and tell me how this sheet looks and functions on IT Opera? http://kaylakaze.sytes.net/DDCharSheet.php (you can edit the "Bio" text and the logo disappears when clicked | 19:58 |
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| ttuttle | Yeah, what is up with audio? | 20:07 |
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| ericz | ttuttle, where's your package? | 20:26 |
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| zuh | KaylaKaze: http://iki.fi/zuh/with-logo.png http://iki.fi/zuh/without-logo.png http://iki.fi/zuh/editing.png http://iki.fi/zuh/bottom.png | 20:34 |
| zuh | ie. quite well | 20:35 |
| zuh | erm, "renders quite well" | 20:35 |
| KaylaKaze | Thank you. That looks great! :-) | 20:35 |
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| edistar | is there a sniffer like kismet or so? | 21:28 |
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| edistar | is there a sniffer like kismet or so? | 21:29 |
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| `0660 | edistar, yes there is | 21:36 |
| kulve | edistar: for n800? Tried googling? "n800 kismet" | 21:36 |
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| chrissturm | I am having trouble installing this package: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/ruby185/ | 21:37 |
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| chrissturm | when I click "Click to install" it shows the install file as text | 21:38 |
| kulve | chrissturm: buggy mime type. | 21:38 |
| chrissturm | its the first app in downloads at the maemo site | 21:39 |
| kulve | try adding the repo manually to application manager and then install the package from there | 21:39 |
| chrissturm | ok | 21:39 |
| chrissturm | is there an easy way to copy/paste the url from the text file? I got my n800 today and i am totally new to it | 21:40 |
| kulve | chrissturm: not really :) | 21:40 |
| kulve | double click + paint the text should work but it's damn hard | 21:40 |
| guardian | evening maemo | 21:41 |
| kulve | chrissturm: that ruby install file is "application/octet-stream". It should be "application/x-install-instructions" for the app.mgr. to realize it | 21:42 |
| kulve | or browser actually.. | 21:42 |
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| chrissturm | application/octet-stream is probably the default mimetype | 21:42 |
| chrissturm | it feels strange that theres no easy way to paste | 21:43 |
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| kulve | chrissturm: I think it is meant to be easy, but it's not | 21:44 |
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| kulve | I have a .htaccess file in my .install file directory, which contains single line: | 21:46 |
| kulve | AddType application/x-install-instructions .install | 21:46 |
| chrissturm | strange, I have the maeomo extras repository added, but there seems to be no ruby package | 21:46 |
| chrissturm | is there a way to use osx to build maemo apps, or do i need a linux box? | 21:49 |
| kulve | you need linux box (for scratchbox) | 21:50 |
| chrissturm | hmm, installing that deb also doesnt work: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/1645/ruby-1.8.5_0.1_armel.deb | 21:50 |
| chrissturm | is armel the n770? | 21:51 |
| kulve | or if there's vmware for osx, you can use a ready made image for that | 21:51 |
| chrissturm | ah, yes, I have vmware | 21:51 |
| kulve | http://www.vmware.com/vmtn/appliances/directory/702 | 21:51 |
| kulve | check that out | 21:51 |
| kulve | (I haven't tried it) | 21:52 |
| edistar | does it tell my the signal trength in kismet? | 21:52 |
| kulve | what do you mean by "also doesnt work"? | 21:52 |
| kulve | edistar: I don't know the details of kismet in n800. I have tried on 770 long time ago.. | 21:53 |
| edistar | I am using it in the 770 | 21:53 |
| edistar | on the 770.. | 21:53 |
| kulve | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2007-March/004743.html | 21:55 |
| kulve | "Kismet on Nokia 770: no signal strength?" | 21:55 |
| kulve | edistar: try googling. It seems to give quite much information (or at least unanswered questions ;) | 21:55 |
| chrissturm | kulve: the application manager says "Unable to install. Incompatible application package" | 21:56 |
| edistar | kulve: I just have never used kismet, where does it show me the strengh in the 'gui'? | 21:56 |
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| kulve | edistar: sorry, I can't help. I don't remember much of it (used it just a little).. | 21:57 |
| kulve | chrissturm: odd.. | 21:57 |
| edistar | ok | 21:58 |
| kulve | chrissturm: actually it just maybe the normal issue: it uses debian sections and not maemo modified sections.. | 21:58 |
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| chrissturm | the creator of the package could have at least tried it once :) | 21:59 |
| kulve | chrissturm: you may install it from command line as root, or change the app.mgr. to "red pill mode". But you shouldn't do either if you don't know what you are doing or don't fraid braking your device | 21:59 |
| kulve | the section doesn't matter, if you install it as a dependency for something else (i.e. install package X which depends on ruby..) | 22:01 |
| chrissturm | kulve: I'm used to deb based distros so I think I will just try it | 22:02 |
| chrissturm | just connect via ssh, and then dpkg -i ... | 22:02 |
| kulve | yeah | 22:02 |
| kulve | that's a very common thing I do.. | 22:02 |
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| m-vo | chrissturm, red-pill-mode is not dangerous, but if you are comfortable with apt-get and dpkg, those are more convenient for 'power use'. | 22:06 |
| chrissturm | ok, I'm just toying around to get used to the device, and if it breaks i can just reinstall | 22:06 |
| chrissturm | btw, how can I see what firmware revision I have? | 22:07 |
| kulve | cat /etc/osso_software_version | 22:07 |
| kulve | since you using ssh ;) | 22:07 |
| chrissturm | what do i use for ssh? dropbear-server? | 22:08 |
| kulve | otherwise there's a "device" or something like that in control panel | 22:08 |
| kulve | I use ssh | 22:08 |
| kulve | or is it "openssh" | 22:08 |
| kulve | I installed it in the red pill mode | 22:09 |
| kulve | only sw I used red pill for.. | 22:09 |
| kulve | but dropbear should work just fine | 22:09 |
| chrissturm | red pill mode sounds interesting. gotta read up on it | 22:09 |
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| kulve | most importantly it enables you to install any debian armel package | 22:10 |
| kulve | it did have some other features too, but I'm never used them | 22:10 |
| kulve | http://maemo.org/community/wiki/ApplicationManagerRedPillMode | 22:10 |
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| kulve | oh, "It would list the dependencies of a package in the "Details" dialog." is a red pill feature.. | 22:11 |
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| chrissturm | ha, thats funny | 22:12 |
| m-vo | kulve, yeah, but it's a pretty useless feature, I always turn it off. | 22:16 |
| m-vo | Debugging of dependencies is better done with apt-cache etc. | 22:17 |
| m-vo | (of course, the AM tells you always about missing dependencies.) | 22:17 |
| chrissturm | in what package can i find openssh? | 22:17 |
| chrissturm | eh, repo | 22:17 |
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| cfh | hi all | 22:21 |
| cfh | i m searching a way to use a SIP account with astersik and N800 | 22:22 |
| cfh | are there some client ? | 22:22 |
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| kulve | chrissturm: | 22:23 |
| kulve | apt-cache policy ssh | 22:23 |
| kulve | 500 http://repository.maemo.org bora/free Packages | 22:23 |
| kulve | hmm.. | 22:24 |
| kulve | actually I'm not sure if it's just repository.maemo.org or /extras | 22:24 |
| m-vo | use apt-cache showpkg ssh | 22:26 |
| kulve | 1:3.8p1-3osso7(/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_dists_bora_free_binary-armel_Packages)(/var/lib/dpkg/status) | 22:27 |
| kulve | that's the only line saying anything about repos.. | 22:27 |
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| m-vo | (that means, just repository.maemo.org, no extras) | 22:27 |
| kulve | yeah, so it seems | 22:28 |
| cfh | are there sip client for maemo ? | 22:31 |
| kulve | something not finished at least.. | 22:32 |
| kulve | gizmo? | 22:32 |
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| cfh | I have try gizmo but is not a pure client sip , it wants use its accounts :( | 22:33 |
| kulve | I'm off | 22:34 |
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| kakos | http://knight.lambdacalcul.us/personal/images/GeekHolster+FrogPad+NokiaN800.jpg | 23:33 |
| kakos | MUWHAHAHAHA | 23:33 |
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| chrissturm | is there a nice tutorial on how to build a maemo deb from a gnome app? | 23:41 |
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| melmoth | not exactly , but there is a porting document | 23:44 |
| melmoth | if it s agnome app , it may be tricky,a s all gnome lib are not there | 23:44 |
| chrissturm | its a gtk app | 23:45 |
| melmoth | if its simply a gtk one, it should be realtively easy | 23:45 |
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| melmoth | http://maemo.org/development/documentation/how-tos/3-x/howto_porting_to_maemo_bora.html | 23:45 |
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| chrissturm | This document describes how maemo 2.X applications can be ported to the maemo 3.0 environment | 23:47 |
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| melmoth | read again. | 23:48 |
| melmoth | not only the orange fonts. | 23:48 |
| chrissturm | ah ok. its 2 parts | 23:49 |
| melmoth | :) | 23:49 |
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