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| Pupnik | tak, build on a graveyard | 00:42 |
|---|---|---|
| Tak|work | that's just asking for a scooby doo episode | 00:43 |
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| Pupnik | the intel research facility was built on the ruins of a town the israelis purged of palestinians | 00:44 |
| Pupnik | buy intel, buy genocide | 00:44 |
| Pupnik | just stating facts... | 00:44 |
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| Pupnik | and those were the guys who gave us shifted segment:offset addressing in the 8088 | 00:46 |
| Pupnik | it didn't come from texas | 00:46 |
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| Tak|work | funnily enough, intel finally got the guts to make a break with all the backward-compatibility hacks with itanium...and it bombed | 00:47 |
| Pupnik | yeah i know most of the problem lies with backward compatiblity | 00:48 |
| Pupnik | look how long it took microsoft to get NT accepted | 00:48 |
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| Pupnik | my life is a black hole | 01:05 |
| Pupnik | http://www.pupnik.de/Netrek_0_01_tinyfont.jpg | 01:05 |
| bill20r3 | "my life is one dark room..." | 01:05 |
| bill20r3 | pup, is that xtrek? | 01:05 |
| Pupnik | netrek | 01:06 |
| bill20r3 | you're old. | 01:06 |
| bill20r3 | heh | 01:06 |
| bill20r3 | now port bzflag. | 01:06 |
| Pupnik | dying isn't funny | 01:07 |
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| bill20r3 | Oh, I know. | 01:07 |
| bill20r3 | I'm old too. (or at least I feel old this week.) | 01:07 |
| * bill20r3 nods off. | 01:07 | |
| Pupnik | respect for your work bill20r3 | 01:08 |
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| maddler | hmmm... does hcitool caches scan results somehow? | 01:45 |
| maddler | it keeps showing switched off devices... | 01:45 |
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| _ke | hello | 02:43 |
| _ke | is anybody familiar with the howto "how to use the camera api" -> http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_camera_api_bora.html ? | 02:43 |
| maddler | not me... | 02:50 |
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| s100user | hello | 04:50 |
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| s100user | does anyone know of a good (and simple) linux NAS distro? | 05:03 |
| s100user | (Max 64MB size) | 05:04 |
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| matsavhalev | is there an X server in maemo (can i forward X apps to the N800)? | 08:01 |
| derf | There _is_ an X server. | 08:03 |
| derf | You might find trouble getting the vkb to work with remote apps, however. | 08:03 |
| matsavhalev | im trying to run apps from a debian chroot | 08:03 |
| matsavhalev | ssh -X doesnt seem to work either | 08:04 |
| derf | I don't know if the server is listening on any ports by default. | 08:04 |
| matsavhalev | do i need to set the DISPLAY= to something? | 08:04 |
| derf | No, I mean you may need to restart the server. | 08:05 |
| matsavhalev | ? i dont quite understand... which server is there XVnc? | 08:05 |
| derf | The X server. | 08:06 |
| matsavhalev | surely if I am in hildon desktop X server is running? | 08:06 |
| derf | It's running sure. You may need to pass it some options to get it to listen on any ports for incoming client connections, however. | 08:06 |
| derf | Often it's set not to listen on TCP by default. | 08:06 |
| derf | I'm just guessing here, but if you can't connect to it, that's probably a good guess as to why. | 08:07 |
| matsavhalev | where would I find that setting? any ideas | 08:07 |
| derf | Read man pages. | 08:07 |
| matsavhalev | will do | 08:07 |
| matsavhalev | but for which app? | 08:08 |
| derf | The X server. | 08:09 |
| Tak | also sshd may be set not to forward X | 08:10 |
| matsavhalev | tak: but that wouldnt affect the server on my desktop so I dont think so | 08:10 |
| matsavhalev | i removed -nolisten tcp from /etc/init.d/x-server but still no luck I dont know which DISPLAY to forward to | 08:31 |
| Tak | should be in your sshd_config if you're using ssh | 08:41 |
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| inz | With ssh X forwarding, the X server need not listen on TCP | 09:05 |
| inz | The X forwarding should work, if the client has forwarding enabled in ssh_config (or -X or -Y is used) and the server has forwarding enabled in sshd_config | 09:07 |
| inz | (and DISPLAY is defined when the client is run) | 09:08 |
| inz | The server should also have xauth installed | 09:09 |
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| wallace420 | how do i get ping on my n800? (none of the n770 stuff seems to work) | 09:14 |
| matsavhalev | inz: ssh -X doesnt work with the dropbear-client i have installed | 09:15 |
| wallace420 | i think i need the bsdutils package, but cannot connect to that particular repository for the n800 | 09:20 |
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| inz | matsa, ah, you have dropbear... | 09:27 |
| inz | matsa, if I read the source correctly, X11 forwarding is only supported at the server end | 09:28 |
| inz | matsa, so you need openssh instead | 09:29 |
| dragorn | anyone messed with cairo much? | 09:29 |
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| keesj | Moggew | 10:01 |
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| CountDown | Has anyone built the gstreamer faac plugin for Maemo or know how difficult it would be to do so? I have no experience porting code to Maemo. | 10:44 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 12:04 |
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| mikemorrison | anyone with a 770 around? | 13:59 |
| CountDown | Yep. | 14:00 |
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| mikemorrison | do programs built for the n800 work on it? | 14:01 |
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| Pupnik | generally no | 14:02 |
| mikemorrison | and what is the reason? lib dependencies? | 14:03 |
| Pupnik | several, but mainly because 800 uses a newer distro | 14:03 |
| Pupnik | so yes libraries | 14:04 |
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| mikemorrison | Pupnik: you have a 770 too right? | 14:05 |
| Pupnik | yes | 14:06 |
| mikemorrison | do you guys wanna try and see if my program runs on it? i just tried making a 770 build of it.. no deb yet though | 14:06 |
| mikemorrison | ... just the executable | 14:07 |
| Pupnik | what sb environment, bora? | 14:07 |
| mikemorrison | no, gregale | 14:07 |
| Pupnik | then it should work | 14:07 |
| Pupnik | sure i'll test | 14:07 |
| mikemorrison | http://mike.yi.org/~mike/quiver770 | 14:08 |
| Pupnik | just a minute, you caught me in a rare moment when my 770 isn't on | 14:08 |
| mikemorrison | hah... dang | 14:08 |
| mikemorrison | my 800 died on my while i was trying to set up the gregale build env | 14:09 |
| Pupnik | what does this thing do? | 14:09 |
| CountDown | Um, just run it. :) | 14:09 |
| mikemorrison | haha.. | 14:10 |
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| mikemorrison | i swear it doesn't format anything... | 14:10 |
| mikemorrison | i bet it will just crash.. but it is an image viewer | 14:10 |
| Pupnik | oh i remember yeah | 14:10 |
| Pupnik | quiver770: error while loading shared libraries: libglade-2.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory | 14:12 |
| Pupnik | installing libglade2-0 | 14:12 |
| Pupnik | now libgcrypt | 14:13 |
| mikemorrison | ok .. people had that same issue with bora build too apparently | 14:13 |
| mikemorrison | are those both available in repository.maemo.org ? | 14:13 |
| Pupnik | can you remove the gcrypt dependency? | 14:13 |
| Pupnik | installing now | 14:14 |
| mikemorrison | i use it for md5, for thumbnail generation code. | 14:14 |
| Pupnik | quiver770[1044]: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - hildon_file_system_info_get_display_name: assertion `info != NULL' failed | 14:14 |
| mikemorrison | did that crash it? | 14:15 |
| Pupnik | segfault yep | 14:15 |
| Pupnik | anything else i can do for you? | 14:15 |
| mikemorrison | let me see if i can fix that one.. that's pretty new code | 14:15 |
| Pupnik | ok | 14:15 |
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| mikemorrison | ok, do you want to give it another go? | 14:22 |
| Pupnik | y | 14:23 |
| Pupnik | same url? | 14:23 |
| mikemorrison | yep | 14:23 |
| mikemorrison | i put a printf in this time so it should say which uri it isn't getting the info for. | 14:23 |
| Pupnik | starts up | 14:24 |
| Pupnik | nice that it defaults to images on mmc1 | 14:24 |
| mikemorrison | it's too bad there isn't an emulator for these things. too many differences between the scratchbox and the actual device | 14:25 |
| mikemorrison | does it? that surprises me.. haha | 14:25 |
| Pupnik | runs great | 14:26 |
| Pupnik | rotate nice and fast | 14:26 |
| mikemorrison | cool.. wish i could see how it runs on a 770 | 14:26 |
| Pupnik | oo zoom is dynamic... slick | 14:26 |
| Pupnik | great work mikemorrison | 14:27 |
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| mikemorrison | yeah i put a few animations in to make it look a bit more smooth. these devices are almost too slow for them though. especially the slideshow transition.. | 14:27 |
| Pupnik | slideshow fade is about 5 fps | 14:28 |
| Pupnik | with 800x480 images | 14:28 |
| Pupnik | can it do fullscreen without the thumbnail list during slideshow mode? | 14:29 |
| mikemorrison | yeah. doesn't it turn the thumbnail list off when you hit slideshow? | 14:29 |
| Pupnik | no it didn't | 14:30 |
| mikemorrison | oh wait, that's an option.. | 14:30 |
| Pupnik | i gotta run | 14:30 |
| mikemorrison | you need the glade file.. i'll whip up a deb and a gregale repository for it soon | 14:30 |
| mikemorrison | Pupnik: thanks for being my guinea pig.. :) | 14:30 |
| mikemorrison | bedtime. 4.30am.. | 14:34 |
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| [A]ndy80 | hi | 16:26 |
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| maddler | Andy80: hi | 17:04 |
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| schleyfox | No one here would happen to have the latest oss-pdf-viewer sources laying around, would they? | 19:45 |
| schleyfox | *osso-pdf-viewer | 19:47 |
| derf | You mean, like, say, here: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/os2007-src/ ? | 19:50 |
| schleyfox | that would do it | 19:51 |
| schleyfox | thanks | 19:51 |
| keesj | what kind of webcan driver do windows client need for nokia internet call beta. i now have voice+ unidirectional video. the windows side is non geek | 20:05 |
| keesj | is it something like v4l? | 20:05 |
| keesj | i saw that the client was using 99% open source | 20:06 |
| keesj | gkt gstreamer etc | 20:06 |
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| zuh | I doubt it's video4_linux_ ;) | 21:42 |
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| Okko | have you noticed any problems on connecting to SSL sites w/ N800's browser? | 22:18 |
| `0660 | have you? | 22:18 |
| Okko | Yes I get an error "This site has sent an untrusted certificate, Certificate cannot identify the server" error message, | 22:19 |
| Okko | then there's "Continue", "Details" and Cancel. Details does nothing, Continue continues to "Unable to complete secure transaction" error message.. | 22:20 |
| `0660 | seems that there is a problem with the site you are trying to access | 22:21 |
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| Okko | I thought so too at first but https://www.thawte.com/, https://www.ssh.com/, https://www.google.com/ all work on my PC browser but won't on N800 at the moment | 22:22 |
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| `0660 | https://thawte.com works with me | 22:24 |
| `0660 | though it also complained first | 22:24 |
| zuh | ssh.com works for me (after confirming of course) | 22:25 |
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| Okko | they have worked for me earlier, some googling suggests clearing cookies, cache and rebooting.. Did those but maybe I'll try them again. | 22:26 |
| mark_ | if i do ssh root@localhost, i get: permission denied, please try again | 22:26 |
| mark_ | am i filling in the wrong password then? because i wouldn't know the password if that were the case | 22:27 |
| zuh | Does ssh work otherwise? | 22:27 |
| mark_ | i think so, but i have no internet so i can't check it | 22:28 |
| mark_ | it used to work | 22:28 |
| mark_ | if my password were wrong, how could i boot to runlevel one and change it? | 22:29 |
| mark_ | because last time i booted my nokia i could become root, and now i suddenly get permission denied | 22:30 |
| zuh | I guess you could try the alternative methods of becoming root, since there isn't really a way to change the runlevel unless you are root... | 22:30 |
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| mark_ | hmm yes i thought so, and no grub either xD | 22:31 |
| mark_ | what are the alternatives? | 22:31 |
| zuh | heh, seems like they want net too: http://maemo.org/maemowiki/HowTo_EASILY_BecomeRoot | 22:33 |
| Okko | D'oh | 22:33 |
| Okko | rebooting *without* the charger plugged in fixed the SSL problem | 22:33 |
| Okko | I guess it's not a reboot if you have the charger plugged in and it's charging?! | 22:34 |
| zuh | Yeah, that sucks baboons balls | 22:34 |
| mark_ | ty | 22:34 |
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| mark_ | bb gtg thnx 4 help | 22:39 |
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| Okko | wasn't it so that Nokia continues to support 770 as Jaaksi put it? | 22:51 |
| Pupnik | ? | 22:52 |
| Okko | http://jaaksi.blogspot.com/ "770 is a fully supported Nokia product. [...] And as I said in my previous post, we follow the situation as we go on and keep on supporting the product." | 22:53 |
| Okko | https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=329 "WONTFIX. No fixes to N770 anymore." | 22:53 |
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| Okko | doesn't look like they keep on supporting it if they won't fix the bugs anymore | 22:54 |
| c0ffee | there's a thread on m-d about that | 22:54 |
| Okko | mkay I'll read the mailing list archives :) | 22:55 |
| kerwood|afk | yeah, look for subject "No more 770 bug activity?" | 22:57 |
| Okko | "If you have a better solution please share it." lol | 22:58 |
| Okko | Apple and Microsoft can support 100s of devices with their OSes but Nokia has problems supporting two with the same OS? | 23:00 |
| Tak | microsoft support? hah | 23:01 |
| Okko | yes, even Vista is installable on older computers, not just "2007" ones :) | 23:02 |
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| Tak | as long as you don't want to use any of your hardware | 23:03 |
| Okko | I can't see any reasons on building the Maemo OS so that is has device drivers for two devices and works in both | 23:03 |
| Okko | any reasons not to I mean | 23:04 |
| Tak | also microsoft can rely on commodity hardware that other people are creating drivers for | 23:05 |
| impl | Why does busybox conflict with bash? Can two shells not co-exist on a system? | 23:05 |
| Okko | the other people being the hardware manufacturers, whch in this case is Nokia too | 23:05 |
| Okko | but take Apple for example, you can install the new version of the OS to older Apple G4 computers too, no problems | 23:05 |
| Okko | it's a better example because they make both the hardware and the OS | 23:06 |
| Okko | Nokia could just sell the OS 2007 edition for Nokia 770 users for some amount of $ | 23:07 |
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| zuh | But nokia doesn't sell operating systems, it sells devices | 23:09 |
| zuh | And I doubt there is enough 770 owners that would pay to make it worth the trouble for nokia (at this point) | 23:09 |
| Okko | and that's stoopid and bad for the environment in my opinion | 23:10 |
| Okko | why wouldn't the 770 owners pay? or you think the device was not sold enough? | 23:10 |
| Tak | they're giving away os2007 already... | 23:12 |
| Okko | according to business week they have sold "fewer than 25 000 units", if Nokia would charge 20 bucks for the upgrade and 1/3 would upgrade that would be $165000 | 23:12 |
| zuh | The latter I guess, it would take some effort to support backporting changes (770 and N800 differ not only in HW, but also in what interfaces they have for the HW) | 23:12 |
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| Okko | zuh: I don't see how that is a major problem if they can release the hacker edition | 23:13 |
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| zuh | Okko: That uses older components for incompatible/unavailable ones (browser engine, mediaplayer), and thus won't be a part of the normal bug fixing process | 23:17 |
| Okko | so some of the higher layer software is incompatible? I do understand that the camera app is incompatible with 770 but the browser..? | 23:19 |
| Okko | or is it just a licensing issue? | 23:20 |
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| zuh | That's a licensing issue I think but also the new version is tied to N800 (according to the wiki it SIGILL's, which is a sure sign of "compiled for ARMv6") | 23:21 |
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| Okko | licensing aside, couldn't it just be recompiled? | 23:21 |
| Okko | like apple compiles for both processor families | 23:22 |
| zuh | AFAIK it's a binary blop for nokia too, and asking for a recompiled binary would most likely mean $$$ | 23:22 |
| zuh | But I dunno exactly | 23:22 |
| Okko | so could we conclude that the reasons are political/license/contract reasons and not really technical? | 23:23 |
| Okko | the reasons not to release new OSes on older hw | 23:24 |
| zuh | No, there is nothing technical there. Just licenses, politics and money. | 23:24 |
| Okko | that's somewhat "nice" to hear | 23:26 |
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| zuh | As http://maemo.org/nokia/role.html states, "For the time being, Nokia controls the development of maemo to keep it aligned with its product development." which didn't do too much good for the 770->N800 transition | 23:27 |
| tko | well, os2007 was aligned with n800... :-/ | 23:27 |
| * koen wonders what intel is going to do | 23:28 | |
| zuh | Let's just hope that the current improvements and GMAE will improve on that | 23:28 |
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| koen | at this rate, they'll probably fork off hildon | 23:28 |
| Okko | hopefully nokia won't abandon N800 when they release the next tablet | 23:28 |
| koen | Okko: they will | 23:28 |
| Okko | probably | 23:28 |
| tko | such pessimism | 23:29 |
| koen | such realism | 23:29 |
| Okko | that's what they have always been doing with the phones | 23:30 |
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| zuh | tko: I guess there is no real evidence to base optimism on | 23:30 |
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| koen | although I've become a bit more positive about maemo's future after talking to carlos and quim for a few days | 23:30 |
| zuh | tko: Although, I must admit that things have vastly improved from the starting days ;) | 23:30 |
| tko | zuh: and only a single instance to the contrary | 23:30 |
| Okko | tko: about 300 instances to the contrary if you count the phone models :) | 23:31 |
| zuh | tko: Yeah, it was a bad case of first impressions I guess :/ | 23:31 |
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| tko | Okko: I'm hoping we're not adopting all the bad things from the phone units.. we are pretty much disconnected otherwise | 23:32 |
| Okko | tko: I'm hoping it too :) | 23:33 |
| Okko | personally I don't mind if no new software is released after about 5 years from the "start of selling" point in time, but I'd really like to see at least the browser to be updated that long | 23:35 |
| Okko | and I don't mind if I can't call to some free support number after the guarantee period, as long as the software is up to date | 23:36 |
| Okko | maybe minimo will provide those upgrades for the browser part | 23:38 |
| koen | megamo | 23:39 |
| Okko | otherwise my N800 may spend its pension days as some photo frame or bus schedule displayer :-) | 23:41 |
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| koen | since maemo-mapper doesn't work properly on n800 I will probably install a non-nokia OS | 23:41 |
| mikemorrison | koen: it works for me... what doesn't it do properly for you? | 23:43 |
| koen | move your bluetooth gps out of reach -> crash | 23:44 |
| * koen pets his working 770 | 23:44 | |
| mikemorrison | ahh. yes, same here. turning gps off has the same effect.. i just make sure to disable the gps in maemo mapper before turning it off or going out of range | 23:46 |
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| mikemorrison | i'm sure that's an easy bug to fix.. | 23:46 |
| koen | it probably is | 23:46 |
| koen | but it sucks if you drive past a huge EM field | 23:47 |
| mikemorrison | i guess i have not driven by one yet... | 23:48 |
| koen | "Turn left in" *crash* | 23:50 |
| Okko | hopefully just a software crash and not a car crash :) | 23:50 |
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| mikemorrison | haha.. do the directions work for you? usually i'm already in or passed the intersection by the time it tells me where to turn | 23:52 |
| koen | they do | 23:53 |
| koen | I just increaded the time-ahead | 23:53 |
| mikemorrison | yeah that didn't seem to do anything for me... | 23:53 |
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| mikemorrison | i've been putting off looking at the code because it's one massive c file.. ugh | 23:54 |
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| mikemorrison | anyone with a 770 wanna give something a try for me? | 23:58 |
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