IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2007-04-05

bipolarPupnik: Kontact works for me becouse it is a full client for my Kolab based server00:00
Tak|workI thought he had it running on a stock n80000:00
bipolarTak|work: he did00:00
bipolarTak|work: off of an SD card00:00
Tak|workrootfs on sd isn't stock00:00
bipolarHe might have been using rootfs, or he might have built it to run off the SD card00:00
koenreminds me of this gentoo person, he said "your 16MB image is too bloated, I'll make one with gentoo" 3 weeks later he comes back to show us his 'optimized' and 'smaller' image, which was 300MB....00:00
bipolarBesides, it won't be that big when it's done.00:00
koenbipolar: too many people think that the only thing a 'pda port' needs is an onscreen keyboard00:01
bipolarkoen: hehe... yeah.00:01
koenbipolar: maybe toss in some 'uclibc' and '-Os' as well00:03
bipolarkoen: *cringe* uclibc....00:03
koenUltra Castrated Libc00:03
bipolarthats the magic pixxy dust right there.....00:03
bipolarkoen: I'm just glad that these things are getting more powerful. The zaurus would have been much better off with 256MB of flash :P00:04
bipolarwifi and bluetooth too.00:05
bipolarI still have mine... sits in my drawer00:05
bipolarwith the even older iPaq, or whats left of it.00:05
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* koen has a toy graveyard for that00:06
bipolarI have more of a mausoleum :P00:06
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dragornuclibc isn't too bad00:07
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koendragorn: it's great for stuff without an upgrade path00:07
koensince the ABI changes each release00:08
dragornyeah, the lack of binary compatibility is a problem00:08
koenwould be great for maemo ;)00:08
koen1 year later and I still can't upgrade my device via apt and/or the package manager00:08
devcould someone with a N770 and python installed pls do an import platform;platform.uname()00:08
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bipolarI still wonder why nokia didn't just put in enough flash to use a bootloader, then put the root file system on an SD card from the factory. Can anyone think of a reason?00:09
koenbipolar: deadlines00:09
koenor laywers00:10
dragornprobably for fear of people pulling the card out to replace it and not copying it00:10
florianhi jpetersen00:10
bipolardragorn: but, they would still have the orig card... ?00:10
dragornjffs isn't very good at being read in windows systems, either, which makes copying it to a larger flash problematic00:10
dragornbipolar: Oh, i'm not saying it's impossible00:10
dragornbipolar: I'm just offering possible reasons00:10
dragornbipolar: non-tech users would have a real issue00:10
bipolardragorn: I see....00:11
koendragorn: you don't use jffs(2) on an sd card.....00:11
etrunkodev: which should be the results?00:11
koensince cards are 1) block devices and b) do their own wear leveling00:11
dragornkoen: if you wanted to use it as your root you probably would want to.  Even if you use ext or something else you still have the windows problem00:11
devI want to see what it returns on a N77000:11
devon a N800 we have ('Linux', 'Nokia-N800-10', '2.6.18-omap1', '#2 Wed Mar 7 15:36:09 EET 2007', 'armv6l', ”)00:12
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devand we need some simple detection that we are running on Maemo00:12
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etrunko('Linux', 'Nokia770-49','', '#1 PREEMPT Wed Nov 29 16:29:50 EET 2006', 'armv5tej1', '')00:13
koendev: device != platform00:13
koendev: people can run say KDE on their device00:14
koenso uname is a pretty bad check00:14
etrunkodev: in a simple check you could try importing hildon00:14
danielsisn't there /etc/maemo_version or something?00:14
dragornkoen: anyhow i'm not saying it's an insurmountable problem - obviously since ppl have done it - simply offering reasons doing it out of the box could be an issue to support00:14
danielsbipolar: as you can see from the disassembly photos, the omap package comes stacked with flash00:15
etrunkodev: at least its not usual to have hildon runing on desktop (yet)00:15
devetrunko: yep, we need to refine this, but for a start it might be ok00:15
bipolardaniels: omap package?00:17
danielsbipolar: the omap is more or less a system on a chip.  the cpu, gpu, flash, ram, 3d accelerator, basically everything but any radios (e.g. wifi, bluetooth) and usb00:18
bipolardaniels: ahh.. thanks for the explination. So it's like a hardware reference board?00:20
etrunkodev: np00:20
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killfilli just recieve my N80000:21
bipolarkillfill: congratz!00:21
danielsbipolar: not quite, ti have their own hardware reference boards.  it's just everything packed into a tiny little chip for reasons of power consumption, heat dissipation, not needing complex interlinks, etc.00:21
killfillhow much time should i charge the battery the first time?...00:21
bipolardaniels: ok. thanks again! :)00:21
danielskillfill: until it says 'battery full', but don't worry about pulling it out immediately, since it stops charging when it's full.00:21
danielsbipolar: np00:21
killfilldaniels: oh.. its not like i should charge it for 6hours the first time?00:22
killfillive hear ppl say that.. (for cel phones tho)00:22
danielsbipolar: it won't make any difference, since it stops charging as soon as it hits 100% anyway00:22
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killfilldaniels: you charged your the first time until it said battery full?.. and it works ok?.. :)  (just making meself sure.. dont wana broke the battery..)00:24
* konttori updated
bipolarkillfill: it's not a problem. If it says it's full, its full :)00:24
konttoriJust a small gfx tweak / one bug fix00:25
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killfillaah ok :)00:25
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bill20r3are there screenshots somewhere?00:25
danielsbipolar: well, most of the time i use it, i don't actually have a battery in ;) plus i've had six of them, so i can't really give you any compelling stats on how it affects battery life.00:25
bipolardaniels: you mean that for killfill?00:26
killfillall other ppl tell me to get ir plugged 6hr's.. :P00:27
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danielsbipolar: yes00:27
danielsbipolar: sorry, i'm not at all with it today.  i forgot which floor of my apartment building i lived on.00:28
bipolardaniels: haha00:28
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florianhi jamey00:48
jameyhi florian00:49
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* Pupnik hates bloatware00:54
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PupnikKDE on a PDA is like a hippopotamus on a motor-scooter.01:14
dragornHilarious? :P01:14
Pupnik... wearing a tutu01:15
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Pupnikdev> could someone with a N770 and python installed pls do an import platform;platform.uname()? <-- did you get an answer to this?01:26
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klamneed these gone    2 dell xps m1710 350 for one 500 for 2, 1 apple macbook black for 600 MSN or aim: solutions198101:29
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Pupnikklam that seems very cheap for the xps01:30
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* Pupnik ponders reporting klam to the police01:32
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thoughtfixOh my01:32
thoughtfixI just wander in and already we call the police?01:33
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Pupniksomebody spamming channels, selling a 1600-2000 euro laptop for 35001:33
Pupnikobviously stolen goods01:33
thoughtfixOh - if you see all-too-good deals on TabletKiosk slate tablets, they had a warehouse robbery and are still attempting to recover the goods.01:34
Pupniknothing on ebay.de01:34
soothsayI don't have a wireless access point but my computer has a wireless card. Does anyone know an easy way to 'share' (bridge) the wireless connection so it behave like an access point?01:35
soothsayOn Ubuntu01:35
thoughtfixI am re-branding, by the way. I'll still be known as thoughtfix, of course, but my site will
Pupniksoothsay, dunno about that but your keyword is "hostap"01:36
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Pupnik thoughtfix nice blog01:36
thoughtfixOh thanks01:36
soothsayPupnik: Thanks01:37
Pupnikthoughtfix: have you looked at 'nogravity'?  it'd be playable on a 770 if the ship models were simpler (less textures, polys)01:38
thoughtfixpupnik: I wish I could code - I'd be porting stuff like mad. I've heard of nogravity but never played it01:38
Pupnikyeah, i don't think anybody competent has time or motivation to re-code nogravity01:40
Pupnikbut repackaging the ship models with simpler ones wouldn't require coding01:40
Pupniki'll mail the nogravity devs and ask if they're interested01:40
thoughtfixThey probably wouldn't be ... it's a lot of work for such a niche market.01:41
Pupnikgame runs at decent fps (10-15) when far away from objects01:41
Pupnikoh if they let me at the data, i'll do it01:41
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Pupnikit's the only 3D non-FPS game i know of for maemo01:44
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chxhi. anyone tried this with Nokia N800?01:47
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thoughtfixchx: I haven't tried it with an N800, but they're unreliable and have no tactile feedback. It'd be fun in a dark coffee shop but forget typing in daylight.01:53
chxthoughtfix: thanks. oh hey, you are the guy with uberblog about the Nokia 770/N800?01:54
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thoughtfixuberblog? I just write ;)01:54
chxbut it's very good, congratulations01:54
thoughtfixBut yes... There is one thoughtfix in the world.01:54
thoughtfixBut the compliments should go to developers. All I do is show off the stuff THEY do.01:55
chxso, here is my gripe: I would like to create a _very_ small laptop. Just the N800 and a foldable BT keyboard01:55
chxany ideas?01:55
Pupnikheh that keyboard + nokia tablet would be killer conversation starters at bars01:55
Pupnikyeah, buy a n800 and a bt keyboard and duct tape them together01:55
bill20r3"So, I see that you're a huge nerd..."01:55
thoughtfixoh man01:55
thoughtfixI bring my tablets and stuff to coffee shops and bars while I write. They ARE big conversation pieces01:56
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thoughtfixbut I think they renewed my virginity card.01:56
thoughtfixFunny how my card got revoked, then reinstated01:56
Pupniki have actually been chatted up by women "ooh that's so cuuute!"01:56
thoughtfixI got a lot more of it when I was evaluating the Kohjinsha SA1 for ultramobilegeek but that's only because it's more recognizable as a "computer" than are slate tablets.01:57
chxbtw. I want this but until I can get one, I will need to mimic it with an N800 and a BT keyword.01:57
thoughtfixThe problem with very small slate tablets is that people assume pocketable touchscreen devices are just PDAs and are nothing special01:58
thoughtfixchx: The keyboard gap would annoy me .. not to mention that oh-so-tiny screen.01:58
Pupnikif they look at the screen in-use they quickly 'get it', in my experience01:58
thoughtfixMy current Object O' Lust is the OQO 02. I am talking to Dynamism now... but the model+accessories I want are over $250001:59
chxthoughtfix: so, let's suppose a Sierra BT keyboard and an N800 -- how could one keep them together?02:00
thoughtfixDo you really need to?02:00
Pupniki wonder how that laser keyboard can differentiate between fingers resting over a 'key' and a finger pressing a 'key'02:00
thoughtfixThe N800 has a stand... are you planning on using it in your lap?02:00
thoughtfixPupnik: Motion. It pays attention to where your finger stops.02:01
Pupnikchx: to use the 770+bt keyboard on my lap, i rest it on a backpack or tote-bag02:02
chxthoughtfix: i was imagining using it basically everywhere -- yes, for example my lap, the problem is that if I have two devices then you need a table02:02
Pupnikchx, a device that clamps the two together would be a nice accessory product02:03
thoughtfixchx: If you want to settle down for some long writing, find a table. If you're replying to an IM, use the on-screen keyboaord. That's how I do it ;) I can't imagine the N800 ever being comfortable on my lap02:03
thoughtfixMy Stowaway keyboard (Not the Sierra - the grey one) has a flip-out stand.02:03
Pupnikyep same here, it's what i use on my lap02:04
thoughtfixThis one:
PupnikI really use the 770 as a laptop replacement02:04
chxPupnik: that's what I want to do. My 2.25lbs laptop is heavy02:04
chxso buy the  iGo™ Stowaway® Ultra-Slim Bluetooth® and not the Sierra because it's smaller and has a stand? workable idea...02:05
thoughtfixJohn Tokash and I were going to design a 2-tablet clamshell where the 770 was an input device for the N800, but the developers of xkbd didn't care to extend the bluetooth stack to support the N800 :(02:05
thoughtfixchx: How old are you? ;)02:05
thoughtfix2.25lbs = heavy? ;)02:06
chx32 years02:06
chxheavier than the N800 :P02:06
PupnikYou could modify the BT Stowaway clamp-on stand to have a bigger footprint, to rest more stably on your legs.  Then extend the top of the stand to clamp-in the nokia02:06
thoughtfixThen again, I weigh 250 lbs so it's all relative.02:06
* Pupnik hands chx some epoxy and tongue-depressors02:06
* chx is a bit less than 100kg. have no idea of what's that in lbs.02:06
chxhaha you use tongue depressors to hack such an expensive keyboard?02:07
Pupnikactually i'm looking at it now02:07
thoughtfixHey... I use Penguin Mint tins for my hacking02:07
Pupnikok, chx do you have a bt stowaway?02:10
chxPupnik: not yet. I arrived in Berkeley on Sunday02:10
chxPupnik: I am now planning the next steps02:11
Pupnikall the stand needs is a piece of velcro on the bottom02:11
Pupnikand a little board stuck to that wide enough to rest on your knees02:11
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chxah, tricky02:11
chxso it's not the keyboard that balances the full weight of the n80002:11
chxbut you rest it on your legs02:11
* chx nods slowly02:12
Pupnikright now the weight of the 770 resting on the stand pushes it back, and the stand doesn't rest on anything02:12
* bill20r3 backs away, slowly.02:12
thoughtfixI suggest you get an Eleksen fabric keyboard02:13
chxI am a bit unsure though02:13
thoughtfix... for every shirt, jacket, and pair of pants you own ...02:14
chxI might get a CF card , replace the hard disk in my laptop with that02:14
chxthoughtfix: :D02:14
chxand then I am fairly good without hacking anything02:14
chxI even have a CF reader in the notebook, so that might be easy02:14
thoughtfixKind of expensive, but it does the job!02:14
Pupnikah i see how it could work02:14
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Pupnikget one of those small hinges for mini-cabinets02:15
chxjust yesterday there was the guy who did solder 44 wires to replace a Toshiba 1.8" HDD like mine with a CF card02:15
chxit was freaky :P02:15
Pupnikscrew two plastic pieces, equal to the size of the folded bt keyboard, to each side of the hinge02:15
thoughtfixchx: You saw my nokbook right?02:15
chxPupnik: yes...?02:15
chxthoughtfix: that was a bit big02:16
thoughtfixBig? It was HUGE!02:16
thoughtfixAnd kinda ugly too ;)02:16
chxthe one that you made from a CD case if I remember02:16
Pupnikso when the hinged assembly is folded out, the two pieces rest against each other and can't bend beyond straight02:16
Piouser@Nokia770-39:~$ ./aircrack-ptw02:16
PioThis is aircrack-ptw 1.0.002:16
chxOH MINE!02:16
Pupnikthen put one side of the velcro on the edges opposite the hinge, the other side of the velcro on the bottom of the bt keyboard stand02:16
chxaircrack-ptw is not even out for a week02:16
chxand you guys already ported it?02:16
chxhow long does it take to crack a pwd :P ?02:17
Pupnikand voila you've got a stable kneepad that doesn't take up more space than the folded bt keyboard02:17
Piosupposed takes a tenth as many IVs02:17
Pionot sure how long to expect it to take... but i did see this:
Pio"Aircrack-ptw cracks WEP in 19 Seconds on my N800"02:17
* chx has a disguised as a Dell X1 -- and can't decide whether he wants to hack together a smaller laptop based on N800 or not.02:17
soothsayAre replacing the kernel and flashing independent operations?02:18
Pupnikwithout packet injection, most home wlans will be uncrackeable02:18
thoughtfixI got rid of my laptop and take my N800 EVERYWHERE and take my UMPC everwhere the laptop used to go and more.02:18
PioPupnik, not if you only need a couple thousand IVs02:18
thoughtfixPacket injection is naughty02:19
Pupnikcracking wlans is naughty02:19
PupnikIn Germany, the legal status is kind of obscure.  Sadly there appears to be no legal way to even set up an open wlan where any passerby can use the internet.02:22
PupnikThis of course is really lame.  If I lived near a park or marketplace, i'd want to provide an open hotspot (with traffic limiting) to any passerby.  I should have that right, since i've PAID for the bandwidth.02:23
PupnikBut of course, freedom is a naughty word in Germany.02:24
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PupnikIt's part of the "Lets create artifical barriers and hurdles, so things that should be cheap or free, are expensive!  This creates jobs!"02:26
PupnikIt's literally a translation of marxist philosphy, in which doing something inefficiently 'creates jobs'.02:26
chxit's a very interesting debate -- what you have paid for? it has nothing to do with your freedom much more with the greediness of ISPs02:28
chxif your contract says, you can't share your network outside of your home as it often does, tough luck02:28
Piocracking WEP is one thing, but open APs should be free-for-all02:29
chxof course, such contracts does not stop foneros to set up routers and say 'oh. sorry. i could not stop the radio waves at the walls of my home.'02:29
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* thoughtfix loves his WPA/PSK 02:30
PupnikThat's true chx - theres the ISP contract on one side.  But german lawmakers/judges have also stated that anonymous internet access WLANs are 'too dangerous' because 'terrorists' could use them for anonymized communications.02:30
PupnikSo they are cracking down on internet cafes, trying to force them to register all users and require ID.02:31
chxPupnik: really? that's nasty02:31
* chx is from Hungary02:31
PupnikUnfortunately this *is* on-topic for tablet users, because it restricts the usefulness of our devices.02:32
PupnikI could of course purchase a UMTS phone and pay another 45 euro/month for roaming access with the n77002:32
PupnikBut technically there's no reason or need for that.  Just allow WLAN aps to broadcast at 1000mw instead of 100mw, and legalize open hotspots02:33
Pupnikthen you'd see tons of free spots all over german cities02:34
Pupnikwhat's the law like in Hungary, chx?02:35
* florian thinks that the situation in Germany is a little bit different02:35
florianiirc there is no law that forbids you to share your internet connection unless you charge for it.02:36
florian*but* in the end you are responsible to some extent if someone breaks the law using your connection.02:37
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Pupnikflorian: i think that's correct02:38
chxsomething like that02:38
chxmost contracts says you are ok if you share within the same household02:39
chxbut it's not supported02:39
chxand also02:39
florianI live in a bigger town and have an open accesspoint for ages...02:39
Pupnikso you have no 'common carrier' protection.  The phone company isn't responsible for criminals using the phones.  The post office isn't responsible for criminals using mail.  But *you* are responsible for criminals using your hotspot.02:39
chxit's impossible to check02:39
chxPupnik: (playin devil's advocate) because phone company must provide service to everyone. you are not.02:39
florianchx: right, that's another point... most contracts do not allow this.02:40
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Pupnikchx: you make an interesting piont02:41
Pupnikbut to me, i think of an open hotspot as a public service that i offer to the community.  i shouldn't be sued for doing something good.02:42
florianPupnik: Capitalism does not care about the community ;)02:43
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Pupnikthe ISP contract is a capitalism issue.  the lack of common carrier protection is a statist issue.02:45
florianGermany lacks protection for many many things...02:47
florian(and from some things... )02:47
Pupnikflorian, that's why i like the CCC.  They are kind of like germany's EFF.02:47
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PupnikFrom the inquirer review: "Nobody seems to have ported the POSE PalmOS emulator to the N800 yet. "03:13
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Pupnikhrm, i see a ton of palmOS apps03:18
Pupnikfreshmeat, sourceforge... but no emulator for palmOS itself03:18
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Pupnikoh it does..
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revyou need a POS image to use it03:31
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revwhich used to be easily gotten from the palm source site... old urls are dead though no, not sure where to find them at access, unfortunately03:31
Pupnikah.  have you looked into compiling the emu?03:32
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revi've not, no03:32
revbut i've no need to run POS aps myself03:32
revi am waiting with baited breath for whenever paul guyot gets around to porting the Newton OS emulator to the N800 though, bu that is closed source :(03:32
revbut Einstein (the newton emulator), unlike the POS emu, can run at any resolution, so we won't be stuck with 320x320 inside the 800x480 screen :)03:33
Pupniklooking at POSE it looks like a hardware emu.   Too bad - a PalmOS API emu would be a lot faster (like WINE)03:33
Pupniki see someone ported UAE to palmos?  How fast were those palm devices?03:34
revreally? wow... heh.03:36
revwell, the fastest POS device was maybe 200-400 MHz ARM03:36
revbut maybe UAE for PalmOS just virtualizes the CPU and runs on Palm's very fast 68k emulator, or directly on one of the old Palm 68k CPUs?03:37
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PupnikNo idea.  But emulating a 200-400mhz arm on a 250mhz arm doesn't sound like a good plan to me.03:38
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revthat wouldn't be the idea so much03:39
revthat was the fast-end of palm os hjardware03:39
revthe low end was 8 or 16 MHz03:40
revand the N800/770 could do that just fine03:40
Pupniksearching... i see in 2001 there was a dragonball vz @ 33mhz with 8MB03:40
revi've run PalmOS emulators on WinCE machines just fine03:40
revthe only software on palm os that uses that kind of speed are 3d games, shooters, etc03:41
revi've run most palm os programs that i used on my 200 mhz arm sony clie also on my 66 MHz PalmOS watch03:41
Pupnikdo you know if the palms had networking?03:41
revincluding an office suite, with no big speed problems03:42
Pupniki see irda03:42
revPupnik: somewhat, but it wasn't great03:42
revPupnik: there are newer palm units with wifi and celluar networking03:42
Pupnikwere you able to do any syncing of data with the POSE emulator?03:42
revi don't think so, no03:42
revyou can install packages into it, save databases03:42
revit'd be easy to keep backups of the data inside it03:43
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revyou can't use that for the emulator03:47
revthat's a patch for palm devices03:47
revnot an OS image03:47
revi'll find iti f you want03:48
revone sec03:48
revyou have to do it thru there03:48
revmake an account etc03:48
Pupniki see some downloads available w/o login03:50
Pupnikgarnet OS ...03:50
Pupnikis that it?03:50
revgarnet is what you want yeah03:50
revgarnet is Palm OS 1-5.403:50
revCobalt is the big rewrite of Palm OS, = palm os 6, which hasn't come out on any device yet... you can run it on their simulator, but it won't be used on POSE03:50
revthatr doesn't sound like it, but i'll look when it finishes03:51
revno, those are dev tool03:53
revno OS images03:53
revare you registering?03:55
revbecause i just did03:56
Pupnikregistered now03:56
revif you haven't or don't want to, i'll uipload an image for you03:56
revah ok03:56
Pupniklooking for the os03:56
Pupniklooks like you need to sign up for the palmsource developer program??03:56
revwhat a scam03:57
revbut it looks like oyu have to BUY a CD to get the OS now03:57
revi mean03:57
Pupnikyeah that's what i see too03:57
revor join the program like you say03:57
revthat blows03:57
revbefore Palm Source wasbought anyone could go and download the images from every Palm OS version03:57
Pupnikthis is silly03:58
revi would imagine some clever googling might reveal a version of it somewhere, you'd think someone mirrored it for us :P03:58
revit id03:58
revit sucks03:58
revi gotta run now tho03:58
revi'll be back later03:58
Pupnikok thanks03:58
Pupniki'll try to find an OS for pose03:58
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Pupnikrev, if it's this hard to get a palm image, then the emulator isn't interesting for Nokia end-users04:22
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unique311what up04:27
unique311whats new in maemo kingdom04:27
Pupniklooking at porting PALM OS emulator and the jerks have pulled all the palm OS images off the web04:27
Pupnikwhere they used to be available for free, now that it's totally outdated, it can't be downloaded04:28
unique311that would be sweet04:28
unique311palm os emu04:28
unique311i'll help ya find it..04:28
unique311Pupnik tried this
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Pupniki don't see the OS there - the emu needs < palmos 404:31
unique311if i find anything ill give you a shout04:31
Pupniki've signed up for the developer access but they want $19.95 for the cdrom04:31
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bmidgleyI'll vote for palmos emu too04:43
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bmidgleylocal transit schedules app runs on palm04:43
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Pupnikanyone who owns a palm can send me one, or the OS image, and i'll look into it04:44
PupnikBut unless / until Palm or Access makes an older OS image for POSE available, the emulator is dead.04:47
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unique311do you know the name of the one they made available Pupnik05:01
PupnikGarnet OS05:02
Pupnikbut that seems to be a PalmOS 505:02
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Pupnikbuilding POSE in scratchbox...  - needs fltk05:07
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* Pupnik is tired of only having debhelper 405:16
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unique311think i read that the source for palm 6 is in he zip05:22
* rev is back05:23
PupnikFirst, you need the freely distributable Palm OS Developer Studio available at05:24
revPupnik: very true on the ease of use getting ROM images thing you mentioned it05:24
revthe source for Palm OS 6 won't do us any good05:24
revat least not for running POSE on a nokia05:24
revthere aren't any Palm OS 6 devices around in the first place05:24
revand their OS image don't run on POSE but a dedicated Palm OS 6 "Cobalt" simulator05:24
unique311so we need palm os 4?05:25
revor 505:25
PupnikJust pathetic that the copyright holders don't make a defunct os (an old version) public domain or at least available for download.05:25
unique311or is the project dead before it started05:25
revPupnik: but that's the thing, it isn't defunct in some ways05:25
revPupnik: the only version of Palm OS being used right now is 4 and 5 ... they don't have any devices with the new version 6 at all05:26
revbut there are still POS 4 devices IIRC05:26
unique311i'll keep searching05:26
revat least, there were until very recently- the PalmOS watch i bought runs POS 405:26
Pupnikheh @ palmos watch05:26
revPupnik: it's pretty cool, actually! :D05:26
revthe only bad part about it really is that the battery life is shite05:27
Pupnikhmm, looking at palms on ebay05:27
revmind you, other palm OS devices are great for battery life05:28
revjust not the watch05:28
revi assume they skmped on battery volume to make the watch not totally gigantic05:28
revit is quite huge as it is05:28
Pupnikthe fossil watch?05:28
revi got it on ebay, brand new still shrink wrapped for $2005:28
revwhich is amazing05:28
revso i totally bought it for the novelty factor05:28
revyeah, i was pretty happy ;)05:29
Pupnikseeing it for 46-91 dollars in ebay USA05:30
Pupnikyou have teh fx2008 or abacus au5005?05:30
revnot sure... i have the newer one though05:30
Pupnikcute that it has the 160x160 display05:31
revthat's what the original palms head05:31
revwhat is the diff between those two models?05:32
revAFAICT they haev the same specs05:32
Pupnikno idea05:33
Pupnikanyway i'm clueless about hildonizing so i can't add this to my projects05:33
unique311i got access to the dev tools05:34
unique311i requested an account..05:34
unique311scrolled down..05:34
Pupnikunique311: i have an account, i don't see an older POSE compatible OS image05:34
unique311and got acces05:34
Pupnikif you find one for download, please let me know05:34
unique311i'm on a page where i can dl the garnet OS developer suite05:35
unique311platform roms05:35
unique311and so on05:35
Pupnikfine, grab it and run it in POSE05:36
unique311k, pupnik i am not a dev, i just wanted to help ya find the items..05:36
Pupnikyou don't need to program05:36
Pupnikto run the emulator05:37
Pupnikwith an image05:37
revunique311 has saved us05:43
unique311its the last link05:43
* rev and Pupnik thought it cost money to join the special club05:43
revbecause you have to pay for the CD05:43
unique311i had to agree to like 2 agrrements05:43
unique311you don't need the cd05:43
unique311just agee to some stuff a05:44
unique311and the link shows up..05:44
Pupnikplatform roms?05:44
unique311palm os developer tools05:44
unique311it cost money for the cd05:44
revyes Pupnik05:44
unique311here pup assuming you signed in already05:44
Pupnikgrabbing 5.1.2 release rom .zip05:45
* davyd ponders getting pptp on the Maemo device05:45
davydhmm, google suggests that the kernel module isn't present, and that a different kernel would be required05:45
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unique311hook me up as a beta pupnik...05:46
unique311when all is well05:46
Pupnikrunning POSE now05:46
unique311sounds good05:48
* rev is running pOSE now too05:51
revthank to unique31105:51
* Pupnik tries to get FLTK going in scratchbox05:51
Takhah, I haven't seen fltk in years05:52
Pupniki hate it when the package wants debhelper 505:52
revspeaking of FLTK or something like it05:52
* Tak used to run flwm05:52
revhas anyone solved the problem of a keyboard for a non-GTK toolkit yet?05:52
Takyou can communicate directly with X05:53
revi just mean, has anyone found some work around, or ported an alternative softkeyboard to the nokia?05:54
revbecause Pupnik05:54
revas it is05:54
revno way you'llbe able to type into your FLTK apps05:55
revunless you write a softkeyboard for it05:55
Pupnikbluetooth keyboard05:55
revthat too most likely ;)05:55
revwould work i mean05:55
Takwhat I mean is, somebody posted a way to interact with the builtin vkb w/o touching gtk05:56
Pupnikto the dev-list?05:57
Pupnikpose not building here: make[1]: *** [FileBrowser.o] Error 105:57
Pupniki think there might be a patch05:57
Takiirc it's in the old wiki too05:58
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Pupnikhere's the relevant discussion about building pose with more recent fltk't-build-emulator-t97417.html05:59
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Pupnikahh need an older fltk 1.0.11 not 1.1.x06:02
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Pupnikor patch for 1.1
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PupnikPOSE running in scratchbox...06:31
unique311is that good?06:33
Pupnikmeans it should run on the nokia 770 in about 15 minutes06:33
Pupnikas soon as i copy over the libs and files06:33
unique311800 also i'm hoping06:33
* Tak goes to test his applet again and hopes for no reboot loop06:36
Pupnikhrm, not getting past the palm powered startup screen06:37
Takhmm - hooray06:38
Pupniklooks like it doesn't need any other libs06:39
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* Pupnik ponders why POSE is running in scratchbox-arm but not 77006:44
Pupnikooh it's just slow :)06:44
Pupnikand the skin isn't showing for some reason06:45
unique311better the skin not show...06:47
unique311as long as the screen is up06:47
Pupnikyeah but you need buttons06:47
Pupnikor maybe the keyboard can be mapped to some of the buttons06:47
Pupnikoh now the skin loaded after like 6 minutes :)06:50
Pupnikhah it runs06:52
Pupnikno installer needed, just the raw executeable06:52
unique311test a prc out06:53
Pupnikplaying with the builtin apps now06:53
Pupnikanybody wanting it, here it is06:53
unique311test it out on the 80006:54
Pupniki only have a 77006:55
unique311well i'll try it on my 80006:55
unique311be a test dummy06:55
Pupnikfreakin cool06:59
unique311permission denied07:01
unique311running ./pose from the terminal07:01
Pupniki don't see how it could run on an 80007:01
Pupnikhah the handwriting recognition works07:01
Pupnikpoorly though, since it can't keep up07:02
unique311got it07:02
Pupnikit's not running on the 800 is it?07:03
unique311asking me to right click on the window to show commands..07:03
Pupnikholy crap07:03
unique311how do i right click07:03
Pupniki run synergy on the nokia07:03
Pupnikso i can use desktop mouse and keyboard07:04
Pupnikmaybe i can save prefs and include a prefs file in there07:04
unique311so i'm stuck until the skin shows up07:04
unique311i got it07:06
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unique311i ran the command followed by the rom file07:06
Pupniki was gonna send you my .. nice07:06
unique311./pose  romfile07:06
Pupniklet me know if it works... that would be so wild07:06
unique311it works07:07
unique311real fast07:07
unique311but i'm missing half the some gui07:07
unique311i can see the applications07:07
unique311the calculator07:07
unique311and thats it07:07
Pupnikdo you see the skin - i.e. the picture of the palm device around the window?07:08
unique311the grey skin07:08
Pupnikit'd be nice if this could be rotated 90 degrees07:09
unique311but it works07:09
Pupnikwell, i guess i have to put it on garage07:10
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Pupnikmake a proper deb package, make it show up in the task list, rotate it 90 degrees, or make a different skin for it or something07:11
Pupnikbut this is just nuts that the same binary runs on the 770 and the 80007:12
unique311i think if you get the 90 degree rotate, it'll be good..07:12
unique311hand rec worked...07:13
Pupnikunique311: what exactly are you missing?07:13
Pupniki mean, what gui is showing half?07:13
unique311do you see the applications icons07:13
unique311and the calculator icon07:13
Pupniki see everything here - looks like a palm07:14
unique311then the rectangle in the middle of those 2 icons07:14
unique311underneath the application and calculator icon is missing07:14
Pupniki'll try starting it like you did07:14
Pupniklooks normal07:15
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chxisn't this cable a solution for the USB port being unpowered?08:31
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Pupnikfor chx, slomo, spaetz, |tbb|_ i just compiled the POSE PalmOS emulator for 770.  Binary here
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fish_Pupnik: nice09:12
chxPupnik: nice trick! what 'bout the cable I linked above?09:15
Pupnikno idea - other people have gotten usb working with 5v power/battery hacks09:15
Pupnikunique311 just tested the binary on an n800 and said it ran with some display errors.  that's amazing to me.09:16
Pupnikgarage project applied-for, if anybody needs help building it, drop me a msg or post here
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mk8Hi to all09:38
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partPupnik: why not just provide the required changes for building it?09:44
Feral_KidIt there a way to do a hard reset of the N770? When I boot currently, it goes through the process of booting, and then comes back to the boot menu again...09:44
Pupnikapply patch part:  in scratchbox, apt-get source fltk;  apt-get the palm os emulator deb src09:46
Pupnikthen patch -p0 this file
Pupnikthen build09:46
partFeral_Kid: reflash or turn on the flags for not rebooting the device on errors09:46
Pupnikfor the fltk just configure && make && make install09:47
Pupnikno dependencies for the resulting binary09:47
partPupnik: err, why not just build the package?09:49
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Pupnika) build errors and b) fltk doesn't need to be installed on the target device09:52
Pupnikpart: the POSE emu will need some modification to integrate with hildon and handle handwriting / virtual keyboard input09:53
obergix[work]too bad I couldn't atten 2nd day at FOSTEL : missed presentation on maemo :(09:53
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keesjgoede morgen!10:18
Pupnikhi keesj, want to test my PalmOS emu?10:19
Pupniks/my/"my build of the POSE"10:20
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CountDownJust flashed my new N800 with the latest firmware, installed xterm, but now can't figure out how to install nano.  Is there a .deb package somewhere around?10:30
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PupnikCountDown: google nano+maemo ?10:37
jkyrohi, anybody familiar with python on maemo?10:39
CountDownThe maemo applications page points to the nano web page... I tried installing the arm version of the unstable nano .deb package, but the application manager declared it uninstallable.10:40
CountDownjkyro: What's your question?10:40
jkyroi'm trying out some stuff in under scratchbox10:41
* Pupnik builds UAE Amiga emulator10:41
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partCountDown: use vi or something else if nano isn't available10:41
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melmothjkyro: i am familiar a bit10:41
jkyroinvoking python2.5 in interactive mode and typing 'import gtk' just bails out with code 24510:41
jkyroand that's essentially what the configure script is doing10:42
jkyrothus not letting me get python going10:42
melmothhave you try python2.5 ?10:42
jkyroumm, nope10:42
melmothtry that :)10:42
CountDownpart: I'm not familiar with vi and would much prefer nano.  I remember it being easy to install on the 770 a couple of months ago.10:43
Pupnikit should be trivial to compile for n80010:43
melmothhere 'import gtk' works if i just launch 'python2.5'10:43
jkyromelmoth: nope, doesnt' work here10:44
jkyroi'm also seeing a dpkg problem trying to install libpango1.0-common10:44
jkyropost-install gives exit status 24510:45
melmothsounds like your scratchox installation is a bit strange10:45
jkyromaybe i'll just reinstall the scratchbox10:45
jkyroI have dist-upgraded it once10:46
melmothme too.10:46
melmothwhen 3.1 was released a week ago or so10:46
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jkyroyeah, same here10:46
melmothbut hey, sounds its would be easier to reinstall rather than to undertsand what is going on... :)10:46
* melmoth is lazy10:47
jkyroyeah, that kinda came into mind :)10:47
Pupnikuae bombs10:49
mattsqzits going to be like 15hrs till damn maemo disc image is downloaded10:51
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PupnikTak: you wanna try adding pixeldoubling to hatari? :)10:54
Pupniki'm scared of Xsp now10:55
PupnikHAH.... UAE Amiga Emulator running on nokia 770 :P :P :P10:58
pekkisoh my god11:00
pekkisdoes it work at all11:00
Pupniki have to go now, no time to install bios and games11:01
Pupnikwill be back later with a report11:01
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mattsqzso im uh11:02
mattsqzdonwloading this torrent, it says its "MaemoAppliance-
mattsqzhas anyone else used this?11:03
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mattsqzits for vmware11:03
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keesjmattsqz: I think there is a more "official" maemo vmware image that can be downloaded from the wmware site11:09
keesjWhat are you expeting from "MaemoAppliance-
mattsqzi think this is the one from vmware site?11:10
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mattsqzmaybe i dunno11:12
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AD-N770good morning11:17
mattsqzhrm looks like maybe not what i need..its for maemo 3.011:17
mattsqzi cant try 3.0 on my 770 because the damn flasher program wont start on this pc and wont install on the other pc11:18
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mattsqzunless theres a way to boot from mmc and flash from the device itself11:19
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JaffaMorning, all11:35
koengood morning mister Flegg11:36
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floriangood morning11:58
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CountDownHas anyone managed to get nano installed on the N800 with the latest bora release?12:16
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spaetzdarn, my N800 stopped booting, it just sits there with the initial NOKIA screen and goes black from time to time.12:41
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spaetzreflashing fails now also: Finishing flashing... Sending request 0x52 failed!12:41
spaetzafter transfering data for like 4 seconds or so.12:41
spaetzDoes things like this happen often?12:42
spaetzerr, *do*, things like this...12:42
jkyrohave you got an idea of what might have caused that?12:48
jkyroor just the upgrade?12:48
* Pupnik_afk plays arkanoid on amiga on 770 :D12:49
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sbaturzioAtWorkspaetz: is battery fully charged?12:51
spaetzdoing it from a different box, right now. it seems to work12:52
spaetzProbably some amd64 flakiness.12:52
spaetzworked. pooh, I was afraid for a second12:53
Pupnikabout 8fps on arkanoid... mouse not bound correctly12:54
Pupnikmaybe 11fps12:54
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konttoriPupnik: what arkanoid? A python based or c based?13:06
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PupnikAmiga arkanoid13:09
Pupniktaking screenshots...13:09
robtaylorwhy doesnt playbin use dspmp3sink automatically on the n800 ;(13:09
robtaylor:'(, even13:10
jkyroargh, dist-upgrade doesn't work in maemo sdk13:10
jkyrobsdutils wants to replace logger13:10
MoRpHeUzrobtaylor: playbin doesnt work well at all on N80013:10
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robtaylorgrr grr13:11
Pupnikthis is strange, UAE has more jerky playback on my athlon 2800xp than on the 770?  lol13:16
cosmo__UAE? is it available somewhere?13:16
Pupnikon my 770 :P13:17
cosmo__make a deb & release it :)13:17
cosmo__does it have some kind of working kb/mouse input?13:17
Pupnikyou have a 770?13:17
Pupnikactually the mouse is not working on the pc side either13:18
Pupnikif i send you the binary will you help test and tweak the uaerc file to run best?  - do you have some time?13:18
AD-N770robtaylor: currently playbin only can manage non compressed streams at sink level if I understood it correctly13:19
cosmo__i'd like to help, but i'm very busy at the moment.. working & renovating my house13:20
robtaylorAD-N770: yeah, its just not clever enough :/13:20
Pupnikcosmo__: if not, just wait a while and i'll upload when the garage project is approved13:20
cosmo__Pupnik: thanks, i've been waiting for UAE or some c64 emulator to be ported13:21
robtaylorAD-N770: i'll ask ensonic what the plans are when he appears :)13:21
AD-N770robtaylor: this will be fixed when palybin2 will be finished :)13:21
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robtaylorAD-N770: ah, yeah, i guessed as much =)13:28
Pupnikmouse working...13:29
cosmo__Pupnik: does it get the absolute stylus position?13:30
cosmo__i think on pc it only was able to use relative mouse movement13:30
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Pupnikabsoulute stylus working13:32
cosmo__oh, great13:32
Pupniksound not working yet13:32
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nnodhas anyone successfully set up nstx on their n800?13:41
Pupnikahrm no it's not tracking touchscreen always13:41
Pupniksometimes it goes right where i click - other times not13:41
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PupnikUAE Amiga Emulator binary+uaerc and shell starter script here:
Pupnikneeds Kickstart ROM.  Please test and give feedback.  Mess with uaerc13:48
cosmo__i'll try it later.. my 770 is at home now. but thanks for porting!13:49
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PupnikPOSE Palm OS emu and Netrek COW client approved for garage :)13:58
cosmo__someone was wishing for POSE in some blog13:59
Pupniki posted the binary link to internettablettalk forum where it was requested13:59
cosmo__it might be really useful for some people, as there is *a lot* of software for palm available13:59
PupnikWell I'm happy to share what i've got, but it's not hildonized yet14:00
cosmo__i wish i had more time (and a 64bit version of maemo development tools)14:03
unique311Pupnik just realize there's an -h option for pose...14:04
unique311-di for display14:05
unique311./pose -di host:n.n14:05
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unique311display for n800 is 800x60014:07
Pupnikbut the res is only 480 high, what do you see when you run 800x600?14:08
unique311cant access 800x60014:09
unique311so gonna try 48014:09
unique311cannot open display14:10
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Pupnikthat may be too big as well, since the window isn't full screen height14:10
unique311theres also a geometry flag... -g14:10
unique311guess now is to learn the flgs for n800 users...14:10
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Pupniki still am having trouble with the fact that that binary runs on the n80014:11
Pupnikthanks for testing though :)14:12
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Pupnik_afkhah, got arkanoid up to about 18-20 fps14:38
Juhazdoes sound work?14:40
Pupnik_afkthis guy just wrote me from finland - he got sound sometimes working on/off on a 80014:41
Pupnik_afkno sound on 770 at all yet14:41
robtaylorare there any docs for using mediaserver?14:45
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unique311i just tried the m505 rom14:50
unique311it works14:50
unique311the colored14:50
unique311still have the display issue14:50
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unique311you have the roms14:51
Pupniki do?14:51
unique311now you do14:51
unique311gotta go to work..14:51
unique311be back later..14:51
Pupnikthat link is uge - thanks14:52
unique311and also14:52
unique311the skin can be change with the skin flag14:52
Pupnikright on14:53
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X-FadeHmm do I spot a hole in The Great Nokia Firewall?15:22
zeenixrobtaylor: you shouldn't be needing docs for using UPnP, that is whole point of it :)15:28
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robtaylorzeenix: umm, i'm working on a upnp service...15:40
robtaylorzeenix: one that isn't cracked and closed source..15:41
robtaylorzeenix: i meant the dbus api, play_media, etc15:41
zeenixrobtaylor: cool!15:42
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davydso, with IT2006, can I get the current kernel zImage off the device somehow?16:17
davydand how hard is it to brick on of these things?16:17
davydie. can I still load a new kernel if I arse it up?16:17
danielsdavyd: you can pull it out of /dev/mtdblock2 (iirc) from the device16:17
danielsand the flashing is done out of the bootloader, so you have to try _really_ hard (i.e. screw around with the bootloader) to brick it16:18
davydok, so bricking it is hard16:18
davydhmm, next question, where is the mmc mounted?16:18
davydaah, it's greyed out16:19
davydis this because it's mounted on my workstation?16:19
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davydhmm, invalid module format16:23
* davyd wonders how he has arsed this up16:24
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davydhmm, maybe the device never took me new kernel16:27
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davydhmm, I think it just rebooted16:32
davydimplying it bombed out on the kernel I tried to load16:32
davydbut the blue line went all the way to the top, which to my, implies that /almost/ everything went to plan16:32
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danielsif the blue line gets all the way to the end, that means you're well in userspace16:33
davydit looks like it hit the end, and then rebooted16:34
* davyd stabs the damned wiki16:34
davydit makes me feel better16:35
partdid you put in a new kernel?16:36
davydI tried to boot one using the flasher-2.0 -l -b -k option16:36
davydthe command line implies that it took the image, then the little blue line filled the screen16:37
partyou should still be able to put a working kernel in there16:37
davydthen it rebooted16:37
davydso it booted the working kernel when it rebooted16:37
davydbut I have no hints as to why this other kernel didn't take16:37
partsounds like you might be missing some kernel modules or options16:37
davydis there a log somewhere?16:38
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partdavyd: serial console might tell you what's happening in the boot process16:40
davydthat's my only option?16:40
partother than making a working kernel, yeah16:46
davydok, I'll poke at this later16:49
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robtaylorFlavioCarvalho: /wg 2917:24
robtaylorgod, i am having such typing issues today..17:25
FlavioCarvalhohi :)17:25
robtaylorFlavioCarvalho: are you on the brisa team?17:26
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davydok, so I suspect my problems stem from this kernel being compiled with a different toolchain to the initfs modules17:50
davydwhat toolchain is mistral compiled with?17:50
danielsi think cs2005.q317:51
davydso that'd be the Debian package scratchbox-toolchain-cs2005q3.2-glibc-arm ?17:54
danielsi think so, yeah17:54
davydI have the distinct impression that large chunks of the documentation alternate in their out-of-date-ed-ness17:56
rvallesdavyd: there's an alternative flasher (for the n770/800)17:56
davydok, I'm confused as to where that comes into it17:57
davyddaniels ; also, do you know if scratchbox is ok with mistral?17:57
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danielsi know is, at least17:58
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danielsbut if you're updating the kernel version, the initfs modules won't work17:58
danielsas the magic string will have changed17:58
davydok, so I need the same kernel version, and the same toolchain17:59
davydand possibly a copy of modinfo17:59
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* davyd twiddles his thumbs while he pulls down software on his wet string18:00
davyd(wish I had some beer)18:00
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tigertwe have some beer here right now19:09
tigertmeritähti. too close to work though :)19:09
bergietigert: beer is good :-)19:10
bergieI actually just drove past Meritähti19:10
tigertcome to say hi :)19:10
bergieno, got home already19:11
bergiebut would've been fun19:11
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Molagihmm is meritähti in ruoholahti?20:10
danielsright near the metro station20:11
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danielsjust keep walking towards the canal, down the wide walkway next to the metro station, and it's on your left20:12
Molagiyeah now i remember20:12
gpdI'm back after a month away -- what's new?20:12
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Molagiwell the new firmware20:19
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gpdI am confused -- the release page says 'upgrading from maemo 3.0 to 3.1 can be done with apt-get dist-upgrade20:26
gpdthen it keeps going on about scratchboxes...20:27
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gpdhave i become a retard - or are the instructions less than foolproof20:28
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partgpd: you can either upgrade from the earlier release or you can install it from scratch20:30
angrymggpd: maemo is the name for the SDK, which is used together with scratchbox20:30
angrymgso you can upgrade your SDK from 3.0 to 3.1 by running apt-get dist-upgrade inside your scratchbox20:31
angrymgbut you cannot upgrade your N800 to new firmware with apt-get yet20:31
gpdok - so i need to get my flash on :)20:32
gpdof course I am away from my machine and this laptop is windows :(20:32
`0660it doesn't matter20:33
gpdand I don't see a windows flash utility (on
`0660there is one somewhere20:34
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angrymgit's on the nokia website20:35
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davydok, due to an infusion of cockfosters, that whatsit still didn't boot20:45
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angrymgyou spilled beer on your tablet?20:48
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davydno, I just can't convince it to boot a new kernel20:49
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davydhmm, I'm still vague on codenames, but maybe I want to be using gregale kernel source with the latest OS200621:15
JohnMeachamHello, what are the actual expansion ports on the N800, I can find lists of 'compatable' formats (a bunch of SD and MMC formats) but am curious what physically and programatically they are. like, are they full SD slots, do they use SD cards in SD or MMC mode or both? hmm..21:15
davyd(I can't seem to find canonical documentation on this)21:15
angrymgJohnMeacham: physically these are full-size SD slots21:16
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JohnMeachamokay. both of them are then? cool. I was under the impression that due to DRM issues, linux always used SD cards in MMC mode, so MMC branded cards can operate faster than SD branded ones. is this the case for the N800?21:18
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davydthe N800 has a sdhci chip21:20
angrymgah, that's a bit beyond my knowledge21:20
davydwhich is nicely supported in Linux21:20
JohnMeachamoh, and can the N800 handle large (>= 2G) MMC cards?  sorry for that FAQs.21:20
davydboth for MMC and SD21:20
davydJohnMeacham ; you may need a newer kernel than the device ships with21:21
angrymgPhilip Langdale knows much about Linux MMC/SD support21:21
davydfor the MMC4 stuff21:21
angrymghe had a few posts about relative speeds of MMC/SD, plus a kernel patch to speed things up21:21
JohnMeachamcool. I'll read up on those. I was worried the N800 might use some proprietary binary blob drivers that make the generic linux info less relevant.21:22
angrymgnot for the SD cards21:22
davydnah, it's straight up sdhci21:22
davydlike I have in my laptop even21:22
angrymgI think there are proprietary blobs involved somewhere else21:22
angrymgwireless? dsp?21:23
davyd(where is works a treat, even supports MMC cards, which a certain window based operating system cannot)21:23
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unique31pupnik, how goes ur project21:25
Pupnik_a1kgpd: Palm OS Emu Port, Amiga UAE Emu Port, Netrek (COW client) Port, Ur-Quan Masters Port21:26
Pupnik_a1kall very early stage though21:26
* sbaturzio is away: Dinner time...21:26
Pupnik_a1kjust got some sleep, now getting some food :)21:26
unique31i love the m505 rm21:27
angrymgwhat's 'rm'?21:27
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unique31anybody else tried running it on the n80021:27
unique31need to find out if all n800's have the gui issue21:28
unique31missing 25% of the bottom21:29
unique31when i get home from work, i will try to run some prc's21:29
Pupnik_a1kThanks for the help unique31 - be back in a few21:30
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JohnMeachamIs there a wiki page where we collect all the hardware info for the nokio n* tablets? I am thinking things like datasheets for all the chips where they are available, etc...21:50
davydwoo, I think I managed to boot it on a new kernel21:51
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JohnMeachamAlso, the boot sequence for booting an alternate OS off a SD card.21:53
* Pupnik shows Microsoft his 'boot sequence'21:57
angrymgleft boot, right boot, left boot, left boot, right boot21:59
angrymg'boot sequence' could be a topic for an xkcd comic21:59
davydthat's too terrible for words22:00
Pupnikthat's ironic, since it consists of words :)22:06
davydalso, I've got this 770 doing PPTP22:11
davydall I need to do now is fix up the routing22:11
davydhas anyone compiled 'ip' for maemo?22:12
davydor should I port all of my routing to 'route'22:12
angrymgooh, /me wants ip for maemo22:14
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davydI wonder if you could just grab the debian arm iproute2 package22:15
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partdavyd: you'll have to recompile, debian isn't using EABI yet, the binaries are not compatible22:15
davydbut odds on that I can probably grab their source and subject it to dpkg-buildpackage ?22:16
angrymgthat sometimed works22:16
davydfailing that, I wonder if I could just statically compile ip22:17
keesjit's just not fair , who added the SDK and SpotYah to downloads maemo.org22:19
keesjI still cannot login :(22:19
angrymgbuild of iproute from debian fails because of missing ATM headers22:23
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partkeesj: afaik ferenc did that22:28
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davydok, so I've got 'ip' on the device22:31
davydbut it seems that the pppd on the thing isn't running ip-up and ip-up.d22:31
davydI suppose I could work around that, move all of that scripting to happen as part of an alias22:32
davydbut it seems a little sad22:32
* Pupnik gets back to work on Cow for nokia22:32
CountDownHello all.  I would like to stream live audio and video over the web from the N800's camera and microphone.  What are the best ways of doing this?  Has anyone else done it yet?  A quick web search didn't reveal much.22:37
maddlerCountDown: there is not so much to be revealed...22:40
maddlerwell... basically there is _nothing_ to be revealed... as of now :)22:40
maddlermaybe in the near future... who knows...22:40
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CountDownmaddler: Is this because it isn't possible, or just hasn't been done yet?22:41
maddlerhasn't been done yet...22:42
CountDownAny suggestions on how I'd go about doing it then?22:43
maddlerdunno... digging in maemo's source code? perhaps... but... no clue :)22:43
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CountDownOkay, thanks.22:44
Pupnikthe N800 can't stream webcam?22:44
maddlerno problem22:44
maddlerPupnik: not, afaik22:44
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davydok, tomorrow I have to find out how DNS works on the N77022:45
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davydalso why this script doesn't run22:46
sbaturziodavyd: dns? trouble with configuring or querying a dns?22:46
davydsbaturzio ; I'm making PPTP VPNs work22:46
CountDownPupnik: That's what I'm trying to figure out.  :)22:46
davydI've got a new kernel, and the modules, and the bits and pieces22:46
davydso just now I managed to connect to the VPN22:46
angrymgdavyd: IIRC the n800 uses dnsmasq22:46
sbaturzioangrymg: correct22:46
davydand the 770 as well?22:47
angrymgalso, do you have a deb of iproute, or just the ip binary?22:47
angrymgthe 770 as well22:47
CountDownPupnik: It supposedly works with Google Talk and Jabber, so I assume that regular web cam streaming should be possible.22:47
davydangrymg ; just the ip binary22:47
sbaturziobut instead of /var/run/dnsmasq/ directory for storing the nameserver it use /tmp/resolv.conf.wlan0 file22:47
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davydsbaturzio ; so could I wrote a /tmp/resolv.conf.ppp0 ?22:47
davydI'm not overly familiar with dnsmasq22:48
sbaturziodavyd: if you need to add a namserver for a new device you need to modify /etc/dnsmasq.conf file22:48
sbaturziolook for resolf-file=....lines22:49
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sbaturzioyou need to add a line with "resolv-file=/tmp/resolv.conf.ppp0 if you have just created a ppp0 device22:49
sbaturziothen create that /tmp/resolv.conf.ppp0 file and write "nameserver" in it22:50
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sbaturzioremember that file will be erased on every boot22:50
sbaturzioas all the /tmp contents22:50
davydhmm, the final bit may be getting done already22:50
davyd(thankyou debian)22:50
davydso it's just a matter of configuring dnsmasq.conf22:50
davydthen I need to work out why my ip-up.d script never runs22:50
sbaturzioah...after changing /etc/dnsmasq.conf or adding a new /tmp/resolvconf file, remember to restart dnsmasq with "/etc/init.d/dnsmasq restart"22:51
jkyroI would see how the connection manager does things when connecting via GPRS22:51
jkyrothat's using ppp AFAIK22:51
davydit's possible something has been changed for that stuff22:52
davydit's hard to tell22:52
davydstill, it's 035022:52
davydI should go to bed22:52
davydI think this evening turned out to be productive, in the end22:52
* davyd sleeps22:53
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JohnMeachamanother technical question, is the n* big or little endian?23:02
behdaddoes n800 support SDHC cards?23:03
jameylittle endian23:03
maddlerbehdad: yes/not...23:06
maddlerbehdad: yes, using a patched kernel23:06
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maddlershackan! My disciple! :D23:10
* shackan bows23:11
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maddlershackan: I'll be in barletta from sat to tue morning...23:12
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maddlerif you don't have anything better to do...23:13
Pupnikdoes anybody know offhand what the visible vertical screen size is for a n770/n800 window when not in fullscreen mode23:13
shackanI wish I didn't23:13
maddlerPupnik: nope... sorry...23:14
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maddlershackan: hehehe... ok... next time... :)23:14
shackanyeah :D23:14
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Pupnikis there a virtual keyboard method that works in 90-degree rotated mode?23:15
maddlerPupnik: not as of now...23:15
Pupnikok then i'll use POSE's internal keyboard for roated mode23:16
maddlerbut... yes... that could be nice... :)23:16
Pupnikthat's one of the coolest things about these tablets23:16
Pupnikso much to do :)23:16
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derfLook for the "Basic Hildon Layouts" section.23:17
Pupnikthanks derf!23:17
Pupniki'm totally new to hildon23:17
derfWelcome to the club.23:17
Pupnikthis is the most fun i've had in a long time23:18
maddlerPupnik: yep... maemo is FUN!23:23
maddlerI;m having fun with it since ~2years!23:24
Pupnikcross compiling an app and seeing it just run out of the box is really motivational to learn about hildonizing23:24
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sbaturziois there a way to execute a script depending on what connection is activated?23:31
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maddlersbaturzio: _maybe_ getting connection name from gconf? and based on that decide which script to launch...23:32
sbaturzioon gconf?....let me see...23:32
maddlerPupnik: but you will only know if wifi or bluetooth... or USB perhaps...23:32
maddlersbaturzio: I'm checking it...23:33
Pupnikwhat else is there?23:33
maddlersbaturzio: found...23:33
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maddler~ $ gconftool -g /system/osso/connectivity/IAP/current23:34
sbaturziomaddler: that's right!23:34
maddleryep! :D23:34
sbaturziook, in this way I could change my hosts depending on where I am23:35
sbaturzionow I need a way to start a script when a connection become alive but if-up.d should to the trick23:35
maddlerI suppose...23:35
sbaturziogood...ah  BTW: someone need a script to import Google Calendar into Dates?23:36
maddlersbaturzio: that could be nice...23:36
sbaturziobut don't know where to publish it23:37
maddlermail it to me... if you agree I'll post it on MaemoPeople/maddraves :)23:37
sbaturziomaddler: really? ok :-)23:37
maddleror you could also have your very own blog :)23:37
||cwI'd just like gpe-cal to be able to sync in ical's with reoccuring events23:37
sbaturziodon't like gpe: still too much "experimental" for me23:38
sbaturziodates is simple,  doesn't do all what I need but is enough for now23:39
maddlerI really miss a good contact manager...23:40
maddlerboth integrated and Contacts take soooo long to load all contacts...23:40
Pupnikcontacts could use some ui work23:40
maddlerand for some reason... since this morning... it only loads 5 out of +200 contacts...23:41
sbaturzioand I still need something to import all Palm Memo into Maemopad+ memo. Maybe is only a matter of creating some sqlite script23:41
||cwsbaturzio: does the script handle merging dups on the device?23:42
maddlersbaturzio: it was a LONG time ago... but I think there was something to save Palm Memo to HTML actually...23:42
maddlerthat could at least allow you to have your memos on your tablet...23:43
Pupnikif you write it, post a message to the POSE page on garage please23:43
sbaturzio||cw: no, it just dump the gcal ICAL file over the calendar.ics, so changes made into Dates are losts23:43
||cwhm.  that might still ok for me23:43
sbaturzio||cw: I hope next version of Dates will manage more calendars23:43
maddlerand also... I think I remember there was a Jpilot version for 770...23:43
maddlernot sure... but...23:43
sbaturziomaddler: a jpilot for 770? where?23:43
sbaturziomaddler: may I open a query with you?23:44
maddlersbaturzio: ehhh.... no clue... I think I was playing with it when I got my 770... but... can't remember if it's true or dream...23:45
maddlersbaturzio: go...23:45
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sbaturziois there a way to open small dialog windows from script, like zenity do on Gnome?23:57
||cwsbaturzio: do you know of a tool that can merge ical files?23:57
sbaturzio||cw: mmm...actually no. sorry23:58

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