IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-03-12

derfYer welcome.00:02
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kkitodo you know if the osso-media-server dbus messages are documented somewhere?00:07
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derfI doubt it.00:08
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lle2sb2 just built maemo-mapper on amd64 Etch host01:58
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lle2using etch's qemu01:59
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kkitodo you know if it is possible to know the id3tag of a file that is playing on the media-server with dbus?02:54
b0unc3damn... I need to reflash :(02:55
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mk8Hi to all ....10:09
keesjAll say Hi10:11
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tigert|-| |10:52
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JaffaMorning, all11:06
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keesjI see that tslib is installed on the device , is is used directly by the X server?11:07
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kulvekeesj: I think it is11:12
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floriangood morning11:28
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AD-N770good morning11:30
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sp3000is this a poll? :P11:37
* sp3000 votes for noon11:37
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tigertits always morning when someone comes to irc12:39
nomistigert: are you going to LGM? If yes, when?12:42
tigertI need to discuss with my boss, and I was sick last week :/12:42
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dyncorp_another app that never got submitted to the application catalog14:54
dyncorp_atari st emulator:
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disqooh sapwood has a readme now:
c0ffeea file called README or does it actually contain some content? :)15:08
tigertyes, and its rather long even! :)15:09
c0ffeei wonder why they don't use automake's foreign mode15:10
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c0ffeeinstead of touching README ChangeLog INSTALL etc.. everywhere15:10
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derfBecause there's approximately 3 people on the planet who understand automake.15:23
c0ffeeso much for rumours15:25
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disq3? isn't that more like 215:27
disqi mean, i can use it fine but i don't really understand it15:27
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disqthe sapwood readme is more like a short documentation. me likey.15:37
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Unique311windows mobile possible on n800?16:46
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inzWhoa, that makes running Qt sound sane!16:47
Unique311just a question...16:48
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Unique311usually the linux world is always trying to place linux on a device..16:49
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Unique311was wondering if the windows worl was trying to do the same...16:49
alpUnique311: you'd need a copy of the windows mobile development kit, i think there are examples of how to port it16:51
c0ffeethe nolo will only boot windows16:51
c0ffeeehrm linux16:51
c0ffeeand for replacing the nolo, you'd need to be able to sign it16:51
alpthe loader is DRM'd?16:52
Unique311sounds complicated..16:52
jku_c0ffee, is that so? interesting...16:52
alpit should be possible to break out of the linux boot and start your own kernel16:53
alpthere were such hacks for the palm loader before the firmware could be flashed16:53
Unique311guess in a couple of months some16:54
Unique311one will make it happen16:54
Takthe difference is that gnu/linux people want to run linux on everything16:54
Takwindows people will just buy something with windows already on it16:54
alpTak: not so much gnu/linux as uclibc/busybox/linux when it comes to running on anything (or did you mean something else by gnu?)16:56
Unique311mamo is the first mobie linux?16:56
Takgood point - gnu/linux is kind of a reflex for me ;-)16:56
Unique311the best?16:56
c0ffeewhat is best depends on your personal opinion16:57
jku_c0ffee, thanks. Still sounds pretty weird...16:58
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c0ffeeyes :/16:59
Unique311dual boot a couple of os's on the n80016:59
lle2c0ffee: you don't need to sign the bootloader for n800, for n770 you need to17:03
lle2c0ffee: I was outdated ;)17:03
c0ffeeah :)17:04
c0ffeethat's good news17:04
Unique311not needing to sign the botloader is a good thing17:05
lle2allows you to use something else if you really want to17:05
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c0ffeenokia should sell serial console cables for the 770/80017:05
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maddlerc0ffee: eh... that would be _GREAT_17:11
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Taklle2: is sb2 suitable for maemo development at this point?17:21
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kkitoi doubt that we can get the same performance with windows mobile on the device17:25
Takheh, indeed17:26
c0ffeei guess it's pretty easy to slow down windows to the same level17:26
* c0ffee runs17:26
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keesjlle2: also does it require debian to be installed?18:27
keesjI think speed is not that imporent, and if you keep it lua it's easy for people to make changes18:27
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Tak"SB2 is totally distribution neutral. I develop it on Gentoo, but there's nothing in it that would inherently tie it to a particular distribution."18:28
Tak( )18:28
derfIt installs its own version of the apt tools.18:28
derf(in the target's chroot)18:29
keesjI know lle2 used to work on gentoo like me ,that is why I poped the question,18:29
keesjlast time i cheched there was no install "debian" package yet18:29
dragornso I'm a dpkg noob.  Does fakeroot give tar/cpio/etc uid0 for all the files so that things line up w/ the install target?  And then you put your suid controls and chown stuff into the
derfI've not been using SB2, but 1.0.7 or whatever works fine on Gentoo.18:30
Takfakeroot autosets all the uid stuff18:30
Takif you don't like the defaults, you need to chmod before dh_builddeb18:31
smcvdragorn: fakeroot remembers what UIDs it's been asked to set, so when you chmod a file then include it in a .deb inside the same fakeroot run, the metadata inside the .deb matches what it was chmod'd to18:31
smcveven though the real file on disk is owned by you:you18:32
dragornright, ok.  That's about what I'd thought.18:32
kkitoare there any gstreamer example?18:37
Takexample of what?18:38
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kkitoTak, an example of playing a mp3 file using the dspmp319:03
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kkitobecause dspmp3sink is a decoder and demuxer?19:05
kenderit is19:05
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lle2Tak: maybe ;) It seems to build some stuff every now and then, please try it, and email what happened19:07
lle2or me directly if you feel shy :)19:08
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lle2keesj: it doesn't require debian19:08
lle2but you will need a debian or debian derivative to build .debs for n80019:08
lle2'cause you need probably debhelper & co19:09
lle2etch is the "tested" one19:09
[mbm]there's a number of codecs handled directly by the dsp19:09
lle2keesj: suihkulokki is hopefully pushing sb2 to debian soonish19:09
lle2derf: sb2 doesn't ship any of its own tools, it uses everything from the host19:13
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lle2so in the future people need to provide a Debian Devkit for Gentoo (TM) thing and put it into their /usr/local or something19:14
lle2or just create proper ebuilds of the debian build tools19:14
lle2I know dpkg is there already19:14
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lle2I know this sounds like a step back from sb1, but after you think about it for a few seconds, you will realize that it's totally superior19:15
kkitooh dspmp3sink is the decoder parser, converter and sink elements...19:17
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kenderkkito, so, you only have to link it to a src, and forget about everything? I have had some problems with a python script and dspmp3sink and its links19:23
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unique311do you void the warranty booting of mmc?19:24
kenderI don't think so19:25
kkito pipeline = gst_pipeline_new ("audio-player");19:26
kkito  source = gst_element_factory_make ("filesrc", "file-source"); decoder = gst_element_factory_make ("dspmp3sink", "mp3-decoder");g_object_set (G_OBJECT (source), "location", argv[1], NULL);19:26
kkito  gst_bus_add_watch (gst_pipeline_get_bus (GST_PIPELINE (pipeline)),19:26
kkito     bus_call, loop); gst_bin_add_many (GST_BIN (pipeline),19:26
kkito    source, decoder, NULL);gst_element_link (source, decoder);19:26
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kkitoit runs for me19:26
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kender    lastfmsrc = LastFMSource('src',user, password)19:27
kender    decoder = gst.element_factory_make('decodebin')19:27
kender    queue = gst.element_factory_make('queue')19:27
kender    convert = gst.element_factory_make('audioconvert')19:27
kender    sink = gst.element_factory_make('autoaudiosink', 'sink')19:27
kenderthose are mine elements in a normal pc19:27
kenderso, I have to remove conver, decoder and sink; and put dspmp3sink?19:27
kkitochange decoder fot dspmp3sink and remove the convert and sink19:28
kkitothe queue i dont know what does that element19:28
kkitoperhaps you must to remove too19:28
kenderme either19:28
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kenderI tried, but Seg. fault, or a linking error was the answer19:29
kkitoperhaps the mp3sink only can read from a local file?19:29
kkitois the src an mp3?19:30
kenderyeah it is19:30
kenderkkito, if you want, I can give you the sources, if you want to try some other options19:31
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kkitokender, well i have no time now :P busy with my work19:33
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OkkoHello. Are there any known bugs in using WPA between N800 and Zyxel Prestige 660HW-61? IRC works fine with xchat and websites somewhat work too, but sometimes it the browser just hangs when waiting for reply to some images. A reload usually works soon after.19:36
OkkoAlso Gmail always hangs before it has loaded, but it works even on my GPRS connection without problems, so it's really weird.19:37
unique311 considering i just did the mmc boot mod, what happens when i extend the virtual memory to the card..does it slow down the system..running the os on the same card as the virtual memory19:38
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kenderunique311, yes19:39
kenderif the extended virtual memory is used the system will slow down19:39
unique311so ther's rally no gain19:39
unique311better softmod would be to extend the filesystem to mmc?19:41
kenderwell, there is a gain because you can open more apps at the same time, but the will be slower19:41
kenderunique311, extend the filesystem to mmc?19:42
unique311on regular memory, how many apps would you say is possible?19:42
kenderN800 or 770?19:42
kkitounique311, i run a full kde desktop on the n800, then i can say that a lot of apps :P19:42
kenderlol, a full kde desktop?19:43
kenderno wow, please! hehehe, now that's property of Windows Vista :P19:43
unique311put out a tutorial kkito19:43
kkitokender, kde 3,5,6 :P i am trying to do a gstreamer/osso-media-server backend for amarok now19:43
kkitounique311, someday i will do ti :P19:45
unique311now is it necessary to extend virtual memory to mmc?19:45
unique311i run 4 apps at max19:45
kenderno, I haven't use it19:46
lle2it was different with 77019:46
lle2that was way too short on ram19:46
Okkohave you measured how fast the bundled 128MB card is for swap?19:46
lle2the mmc has theoretical limit of 4.something MB/s if I remember right19:47
Okkothe mmc interface?19:47
lle2yeah, there's a bug19:48
lle2it should be 9.something19:48
lle2but in practise I think it's much slower than that19:48
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lle2I haven't done any benchmarks myself though, I just remember seeing some19:49
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unique311google phone19:51
OkkoI bought a 150X card, I guess there's no real benefit of it then19:51
kenderno really19:52
lle2hard to say, things vary between cards as well19:52
OkkoIt could write 15 MB/s and read 22.5MB/s by the spec19:52
derfMy N800 ran much better once I stopped using the mmc for swap.19:52
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unique311 <---google phone19:53
derfAs in, it stopped rebooting all the time, and going into infinite reboot cycles.19:53
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OkkoAre there any logs in the device that would show what's going on when the browser shows "Connecting" and the [ []   ] bounces?19:55
unique311looks fragile19:55
kenderunique311, iPhone too19:56
unique311very true19:56
tzzderf: I noticed that too19:59
tzzderf: the internal card was the problem, using it made the N800 crash, even for normal usage such as viewing files20:00
derftzz: Yes, I just took it out.20:00
tzzderf: as soon as I switched to external SD, everything was very stable20:00
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derfI don't think the internal one sits in the slot very well.20:01
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tzzderf: maybe that's the problem...  anyhow, just wanted to let you know I think it's a consistent problem, not just something wrong with your N800.20:01
derfMaybe if you got a piece of tissue or something to wedge it in there, it would do better, but I haven't tried it.20:01
derftzz: Thanks for the data point.20:01
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Takkkito: did you see ?20:08
kkitoTak, yes i modifies that to play using the dspmp3sink20:09
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Okkoumm, i'd like to install some packages from, and I have defined, bora, "free non-free" as a catalog, but I see no gstreamer for example, am I doing something wrong?20:09
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TakOkko: if the package you want to install isn't in a user/something section, you won't see it in the application manager unless you enable "red pill" mode20:10
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Okkohow can I see the section of a given package?20:11
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Okkonevermind, I guess I can just enable that :)20:12
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OkkoTak: thanks for the tip!20:19
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VeggenOkku: but be careful. Some of the upgrades you're likely to see (most notably busybox) is kind of dangerous to install. Risk to have to reflash.20:20
Okkosome of the packages you mean?20:26
Okkooh right, now it displays an update for busybox and magic:sys.20:27
OkkoI guess I can then enable it to install for example gstreamer and then disable it again..20:29
Takgstreamer should already be installed20:29
Okkothe 0.10 version wasn't20:30
Okkoi'm not sure if a previous version was, but at least doesn't show any other versions20:33
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melmothanybody but me experiencing pygtk segfault , sometimes, when filling a treeview ?21:01
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OkkoIs there an easy way to make a full backup with the installed applications and all?21:28
ajturner_anyone have a build of Ruby for os2007?21:29
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s-ndh-cOkko: make a tar of the rootfs?21:33
Takshort answer: no21:34
OkkoI'll rephrase, is there an easy way to both make a full backup and restore it after a flashing in a default image? Extracting a tar over a running system is not possible?21:34
s-ndh-ci think that doesnt works21:35
derfYou need to boot from the mmc.21:35
Okkothere should be a [x] installed packages option in the backup/restore app :)21:35
derfThe backup/restore app is woefully incomplete.21:36
dragornyou might be able to make a shell script that scrapes dpkg21:36
Takwhat I did with my last flash was: run the backup utility, make tarballs of /home, /etc, and /var, download the becomeroot and ssh packages to the mmc21:36
Okkoso the easiest solution is not to screw things up :)21:37
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derfI guess you don't actually have to boot from the mmc to make the backup, but you will to restore it.21:40
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OkkoI guess "easy" is a relative term.. My definition of easy would be a couple of ticks or one command, not becoming root and installing modules and partitioning memory cards. :)21:41
Okkobut again thanks for the pointers, now I know how it should be done if I wanted to do it.21:42
OkkoAt the moment it would be easier to a) write down the installed additional apps and repository settings b) do the "light" backup c) flash d) manually install those few packages back.21:43
Okkoat least to me21:44
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TakI would at least back up /var (for the repo lists)21:46
Takand download the becomeroot (770) and ssh (770 and n800) packages to the mmc (so you can restore the /var backup)21:47
Takbut I just hate re-adding all the repos21:49
derfI _definitely_ back up /etc21:49
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Okkohow many repos do you have?21:49
TakI dunno, a dozen or more21:50
OkkoI have like 4, just got the device21:50
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lle2maybe somebody could do a repo-aggregator, like rss21:55
derfOr run it like a real distribution, and just have one or two?21:55
lle2that's too much to ask21:55
lle2it would require coordination21:55
lle2we don't do that here21:55
Takit *is* like a real distribution - there are one or two "official" ones, and then everybody else runs his own21:55
Takjust like all the unofficial debian repos for wine and mplayer and ...21:56
derfRight. Except that the official debian repos actually have a lot of useful software in them.21:56
lle2are you saying our official repos don't have? ;)21:56
lle2there's the email client, rss reader and..21:57
TakI was counting the extras repo as official as well21:57
derflle2: I'll stop you when you name one that I actually use.21:58
lle2derf: hmm.. that's a tough one21:58
lle2mahjong is good21:58
derfYeah, okay. I like mahjong.21:59
derfBut that's already installed.21:59
derfI don't need a repository to get it.21:59
lle2I use mahjong maybe about 90% of the time when I actually use the device21:59
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derfI've played like 3 games.21:59
lle2by far the most important application for me22:00
derfBut damn, that marbles one is fun.22:00
lle2I find it a little sad that I've actually managed to crash the device by playing mahjong22:00
lle2dsp choked22:00
lle2I think I tapped the touchscreen too fast22:01
lle2the browser is ok too22:03
lle2but not as critical22:03
Takmine is like 50% xchat, 50% fceu22:04
lle2it's nice for checking from the sofa22:04
lle2in between sessions of mahjong22:04
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keesjI think I undedstant the "1" it's for a two player on one machine mode22:16
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dyncorpanybody running the atari st emulator on the 770/800/22:26
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