| ocnarfid8 | Yup, I kept it. How long does it last before it gets crappy? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| * [mbm] just replaced the factory screen protector with another | 00:00 | |
| [mbm] | ocnarfid8: getsscratched up and crappy pretty quick | 00:00 |
| ocnarfid8 | I carry a lot of crap in my pockets usually if I go out without a bag. | 00:00 |
| [mbm] | on mine you could turn it off and see the position of every key on the onscreen keyboard | 00:01 |
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| dolfun | greetings maemonauts | 00:02 |
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| [mbm] | salutations maemo nut? | 00:02 |
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| dolfun | works too. | 00:04 |
| dolfun | freenx kicks so much butt | 00:05 |
| arj | sorry for my ignorance, but what does it do that is so great? :) | 00:08 |
| ocnarfid8 | do you guys type best with the stylus, fingers, or hand writing rec? | 00:08 |
| ocnarfid8 | (N800) | 00:08 |
| Disconnect | ocnarfid8: i use my stowaway :) | 00:08 |
| Tak|work | thumbs for me | 00:08 |
| ocnarfid8 | Disconnect: some little guy is hiding out in your battery case?? | 00:09 |
| garrett | I prefer thumbs | 00:09 |
| AndyCap | Disconnect: how's the battery on that? | 00:09 |
| Disconnect | runs forever | 00:09 |
| AndyCap | thumbs is nice. but my thumbs are slightly too big. :-P | 00:09 |
| dolfun | arj, much faster than vnc. much faster than native display for qemu-based virtual machines | 00:09 |
| dolfun | stowaway ++ | 00:10 |
| [mbm] | yay, my sd cards finally came, never mind the fact that I ordered them over a week and a half ago and used priority shipping :/ | 00:10 |
| konfoo | mbm what did u get | 00:10 |
| garrett | AndyCap: yeah, my thumbs are also big | 00:10 |
| garrett | AndyCap: I've gotten used to it a bit and make less mistakes now | 00:11 |
| [mbm] | konfoo: two transcend 4G cards off amazon | 00:12 |
| [mbm] | they're selling for about $50 each | 00:13 |
| ocnarfid8 | Is there an iPhone skin for the N800? heh | 00:13 |
| konfoo | 150x non-sdhc? | 00:13 |
| [mbm] | konfoo: yeah | 00:13 |
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| konfoo | [mbm]: i have one here, doesn't work. curious to know if yours does.. | 00:13 |
| Yamazaki-kun | Disconnect: Do you have the Sierra or the other one? | 00:14 |
| tigert | later, sleep time | 00:14 |
| Disconnect | http://www.thinkoutside.com/products/xtbtue/stowawaybt_product.html | 00:15 |
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| [mbm] | konfoo: 3.83G available .. looks like it worked | 00:17 |
| garrett | [mbm]: yay! | 00:18 |
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| * garrett wonders what the best portable bt keyboard is | 00:18 | |
| [mbm] | dunno, need one of those too | 00:18 |
| garrett | this could be a really nice laptop replacement for some uses | 00:18 |
| glas5 | the normal stowaway is nice | 00:18 |
| glas5 | but | 00:18 |
| glas5 | i'd really take the sierra.. for the extra row | 00:18 |
| [mbm] | garrett: yeah, I don't carry my laptop around as much as I used to | 00:19 |
| garrett | [mbm]: I'm thinking about getting a pocket camera too | 00:19 |
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| acidborg | hi | 00:19 |
| garrett | that way I can accessorize with whatever I'm doing and cut down on the bulk | 00:19 |
| garrett | right now, camera + laptop + ipod requires two huge and heavy backpacks | 00:20 |
| [mbm] | I've got a cannon sd600 .. not a great camera but it works | 00:20 |
| Guardian | is there something planned for 3d acceleration on the n800 ? | 00:20 |
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| [mbm] | just one of the point and shoot | 00:20 |
| garrett | so w/ a pocket camera + n800, I'm more portable | 00:20 |
| Guardian | or is it definitely something that we can't expect | 00:20 |
| garrett | or pocket camera + laptop or full camera + n800 | 00:21 |
| garrett | depending on what the activities are | 00:21 |
| [mbm] | and then retry once you notice how blurry the pictures are because you didn't hold still for 5 seconds | 00:21 |
| acidborg | is it normal that the N800 video player crashes so often? | 00:21 |
| Tak|work | acidborg: I'm experiencing that too | 00:21 |
| garrett | [mbm]: I was thinking about the Canon SD800 | 00:21 |
| garrett | it has IS and goes wider than most other pocket cameras | 00:22 |
| acidborg | It always crashes while moving the searching slider | 00:22 |
| Tak|work | heh, crashes for me just playing video | 00:22 |
| garrett | http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/sd800.htm | 00:22 |
| Yamazaki-kun | I got the Sierra... wondering if I should've gone with the slim one. | 00:22 |
| acidborg | Tak|work: It crashes playing video too :-( | 00:23 |
| Yamazaki-kun | It will fit in a jacket pocket, but will only fit in my pants pocket because I wear 5.11. | 00:23 |
| [mbm] | garrett: been putting mine in continuous shot mode and taking at least 5 pictures per shot while trying to hold the damn thing stable .. usually end up with one decent picture | 00:23 |
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| garrett | [mbm]: well, IS would fix that issue with special hardware to stablize things for ya | 00:24 |
| garrett | hence the SD700 or SD800 | 00:24 |
| [mbm] | also sucks in low light | 00:25 |
| Yamazaki-kun | garrett: Two backpacks? I carry a 12" PBG4, an N70s, and three lenses (none pro-grade though) in one backpack. | 00:25 |
| garrett | and since the SD800 goes wider and has improved intelligence over the SD700, then that's good | 00:25 |
| garrett | Yamazaki-kun: two big backpacks | 00:25 |
| * [mbm] also somewhat annoyed that the flash always seems to turn itself on | 00:26 | |
| [mbm] | takes crappy pictures with flash | 00:26 |
| garrett | I have a MBP and accessories in one, a Canon 30D with a 70-200 2.8L/IS, Sigma 12-24, a Canon 550EX flash, a Canon 28-135 IS prosumer lens, and a Canon 50/1.8 | 00:26 |
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| garrett | in the other | 00:26 |
| garrett | the 28-135 is a little bit of overkill; I usually don't need that range much | 00:27 |
| garrett | with the other glass in the bag | 00:27 |
| garrett | but it has come in handy for some trips, like for Delicate Arch in Utah | 00:27 |
| garrett | just couldn't do enough foot zooming to make things useful from some spots (dropoffs on both sides) | 00:27 |
| garrett | and the 50 was a bit off | 00:27 |
| Yamazaki-kun | The 70-200 explains some of that volume requirement. | 00:27 |
| garrett | yes, much | 00:27 |
| garrett | that and the flash add up to a lot | 00:28 |
| * Yamazaki-kun just has a Tokina 12-24, Sigma 30, and Nikon 18-70. | 00:28 | |
| Yamazaki-kun | and a SB-600. | 00:28 |
| garrett | the 70-200 2.8L IS is very, very large and heavy -- almost solid metal and glass it seems | 00:28 |
| Yamazaki-kun | I may have to rent the Nikon 200-400 bazooka at the end of next month -- just got funding approval for SANS, and Su Lin is worth a trip to the zoo. | 00:29 |
| ocnarfid8 | I had a SD700 I hated it, sold it. | 00:29 |
| hub | garrett: and I was surprised the day I could fit in my bab mounted on camera with all the other crap I had | 00:30 |
| ocnarfid8 | I'm a semi-prof photography, I mostly use a D200 | 00:30 |
| garrett | ocnarfid8: really? | 00:30 |
| ocnarfid8 | garrett: Yup, was terrible in my opinion. | 00:30 |
| garrett | ah | 00:30 |
| garrett | what is a GOOD pocket camera? | 00:30 |
| hub | 70-200 definitely on my shopping list | 00:30 |
| ocnarfid8 | Fuji 31fd | 00:30 |
| garrett | I'd like raw if possible | 00:30 |
| garrett | and some manual controls | 00:30 |
| hub | garrett: in P&S? no chance | 00:30 |
| ocnarfid8 | I researched them all after I eold the SD700 (I like the idea of always having a camera with me) | 00:30 |
| garrett | hub: some p&s has raw | 00:31 |
| hub | garrett: even the G series no longer have RAW with canon | 00:31 |
| ocnarfid8 | The fuji 31fd looked like the best -- manual controls. | 00:31 |
| garrett | aw man | 00:31 |
| garrett | that sucks | 00:31 |
| ocnarfid8 | garrett: dpreview.com -- best resource. | 00:31 |
| hub | F31 is good at 3200 ISO | 00:31 |
| hub | or 1600ISO | 00:31 |
| garrett | yeah, I looked at dpreview | 00:31 |
| garrett | I look at it often | 00:31 |
| hub | too bad it use crap xD | 00:31 |
| ocnarfid8 | There is a f40 coming out in march but it doesn't have manual controls. | 00:31 |
| * hub realize he is not on #photogeeks | 00:31 | |
| * konfoo pets minolta dimage | 00:32 | |
| garrett | heh | 00:32 |
| * hub hugs his 20D | 00:32 | |
| * hub need more glass | 00:32 | |
| [mbm] | hub: fun thing about irc channels, they almost never talk about the stuff the channel was intended for | 00:32 |
| * ocnarfid8 needs more warmth, its 50 deg in my apt. | 00:32 | |
| hub | [mbm]: the thing is that I really thought I was there given that garrett is there too | 00:33 |
| hub | [mbm]: I don't mind | 00:33 |
| hub | :-) | 00:33 |
| garrett | heh | 00:33 |
| konfoo | [mbm]: did u try create say 128m swap on that 4g card | 00:33 |
| Yamazaki-kun | hub: If we were on #photogeeks we'd be talking about pocket-sized devices running Linux or something. | 00:33 |
| garrett | I'm in 1/2 the irc channels in existance | 00:33 |
| garrett | or so it seems often | 00:33 |
| [mbm] | konfoo: no, but I copied 2G of crap onto it without error | 00:33 |
| hub | Yamazaki-kun: suggesting that. thanks | 00:33 |
| garrett | and I'm usually idling in every one | 00:33 |
| konfoo | [mbm]: mine died when i tried adding swap.. | 00:34 |
| hub | garrett: yeah | 00:34 |
| [mbm] | konfoo: well, swap on a flash card is a good way to kill a card | 00:34 |
| konfoo | cards are cheap | 00:34 |
| konfoo | :) | 00:34 |
| [mbm] | flash has limited write cycles and deosn't like being continuously rewritten | 00:35 |
| konfoo | see above ^ | 00:35 |
| [mbm] | yeah I know | 00:35 |
| [mbm] | now I'd like to see you try that with the builtin flash ;) | 00:35 |
| konfoo | haha | 00:35 |
| [mbm] | I like jffs2 because it's smart enough to rotate files for wear leveling | 00:36 |
| Veggen | hmmf. another scummvm question...how do I punch? ;) | 00:36 |
| Tak|work | supposedly it's smart enough to level the wear for swap too | 00:37 |
| konfoo | Veggen: hold the n800 at almost arm's length.. | 00:37 |
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| [mbm] | Veggen: umm you tap the screen to mouse click, and you use the dpad for other button presses | 00:37 |
| Tak|work | what game? | 00:37 |
| Veggen | Tak: Indiana Jones. | 00:37 |
| Veggen | Just going through it just to get the hang of it (with cheats) | 00:38 |
| Tak|work | dpad center, maybe? | 00:38 |
| Tak|work | you can always avoid punching in IJ if you choose | 00:38 |
| [mbm] | must be last crusade | 00:38 |
| Veggen | yah, last crusade. | 00:39 |
| Tak|work | oh - not sure about that one, actually | 00:39 |
| Tak|work | I was thinking of fate of atlantis | 00:39 |
| [mbm] | Tak|work: works the same | 00:39 |
| Tak|work | ah, ok | 00:39 |
| [mbm] | guard stops you and asks some stupid question | 00:39 |
| [mbm] | and if you pick wrong you have to fight | 00:39 |
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| * [mbm] used to have all the questions memorized | 00:39 | |
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| [mbm] | "how appropritate, you fight like a cow!" ;) | 00:40 |
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| Veggen | mbm:well, there's this place where I'm supposed to give the bully lots of beer to make him weak, then punch him. | 00:41 |
| Veggen | but I can't punch ;) | 00:41 |
| [mbm] | hmm I should load scummvm again | 00:41 |
| [mbm] | btw monkey's island 3 looks killer on the tiny screen | 00:41 |
| Yamazaki-kun | Wouldn't happen to have anyone around here from San Diego area? | 00:42 |
| Veggen | mbm: in help, it says to use number keys to punch. but no such thing, right? | 00:43 |
| [mbm] | Veggen: try all the buttons | 00:44 |
| Veggen | I did :) | 00:44 |
| [mbm] | doh. | 00:44 |
| [mbm] | that sucks | 00:44 |
| Tak|work | no click or click/hold? | 00:44 |
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| [mbm] | tht game was before that | 00:45 |
| [mbm] | mi3 you need to click and hold | 00:45 |
| garrett | [mbm]: hmm, I should try Monkey Island on the device | 00:46 |
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| [mbm] | frame rate dropped a little when the camera pans across but still perfectly playable | 00:47 |
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| [mbm] | and the tiny screen with the high dpi made the graphics look awsome | 00:48 |
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| ocnarfid8 | Is there an app that lets you take pictures with the camera on the N800? | 00:51 |
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| [mbm] | no, probably should be | 00:52 |
| [mbm] | even though the camera sucks | 00:53 |
| ocnarfid8 | yea? I haven't used it yet. (Just got the N800 last night) | 00:53 |
| [mbm] | well, camera is only 640x480 and gets all grainy unless you're in a bright environment | 00:53 |
| ocnarfid8 | i'm used to crappy camera phones, i have a treo600. | 00:54 |
| ocnarfid8 | I don't use them basically. :) | 00:54 |
| Tak|work | so much potential software, so little time :-( | 00:54 |
| ocnarfid8 | sleep is optional | 00:54 |
| Tak|work | yeah, but I don't want to be a zombie until after I'm dead | 00:55 |
| [mbm] | I keep waiting for my future self to come back and deliver the time machine | 00:56 |
| ocnarfid8 | Bring you a N12000? | 00:56 |
| Tak|work | hah, I know I'm never going to invent a time machine, because I would have gone back and changed some major parts of my life already | 00:56 |
| ocnarfid8 | But how do you know you already knew about them and wanted to let yourself through them? | 00:57 |
| [mbm] | Tak|work: I figure that eventually you'll be able to order one off amazon and I'll just have it shipped into the past | 00:57 |
| ocnarfid8 | wonder what the tracking information would look like for that. | 00:57 |
| [mbm] | ocnarfid8: heh, and I thought priority shipping was expensive | 00:58 |
| [mbm] | delivering it before it was ordered has to cost a fortune | 00:58 |
| ocnarfid8 | Priority last centry. | 00:58 |
| konfoo | i am tempted to try one of these adata 8gb cards from newegg | 01:01 |
| konfoo | anyone tried them? | 01:01 |
| Tak|work | I'm *very* tempted to order two of them | 01:01 |
| konfoo | Tak: same here | 01:02 |
| konfoo | :) | 01:02 |
| matt_c | Please post to the wiki with your results :) | 01:02 |
| Tak|work | heh | 01:02 |
| glas5 | uhh. if they work they make n800 very tempting | 01:02 |
| konfoo | haha guinea pig time eh | 01:02 |
| Tak|work | yeah, there was a /. article about a potential flash-based ipod, and people were like, "Imagine a flash device that has up to 32G!!!" | 01:03 |
| konfoo | when are those 16gb sdhc cards due for release? | 01:03 |
| [mbm] | I can say that the 4G transcnd cards off amazon work great, but I don't much care for the shipper (they sent me 2G cards and I had to bitch) | 01:03 |
| Yamazaki-kun | The camera should be good for one thing... with all the thermal noise, it would make an excellent seed for the PRNG. | 01:04 |
| Tak|work | ooo, good point | 01:04 |
| [mbm] | ocnarfid8: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4034&page=3 | 01:05 |
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| [mbm] | hmm .. that camera applet just spiked the load to 3.0 before locking the device and causing a watchdog reboot | 01:13 |
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| [mbm] | hmm .. just occured to me that I could raid stripe the sd cards for better performance | 01:17 |
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| shackan | is it possible to use the arrow buttons to scroll one page at the time in the browser? | 01:23 |
| [mbm] | up and down on the dpad will either page up/down or hop between links if a page contains multiple links | 01:23 |
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| shackan | right, I want to pgdown-pgup, not jump from a link to another | 01:24 |
| shackan | (which is what it does now) | 01:24 |
| [mbm] | hold down the buttons | 01:25 |
| [mbm] | scrolls somewhat slowly but doesn't stop on hyperlinks | 01:25 |
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| shackan | so, no way to just go down a page? | 01:26 |
| [mbm] | not that I know of | 01:26 |
| shackan | frack :\ | 01:26 |
| [mbm] | with the pen you can tap the darker areas of the scrollbar | 01:28 |
| shackan | yup, but it means using both hands just to read | 01:29 |
| [mbm] | the stand makes a nice palm strap | 01:31 |
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| garrett | g'nite! | 01:38 |
| garrett | I usually read using fbreader; it does pages | 01:38 |
| garrett | fwiw | 01:38 |
| garrett | and it supports HTML too | 01:38 |
| garrett | but anyway, g'nite | 01:38 |
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| disq | finally released maemopad+ 0.25, with pressure support and more improvements/bugfixes | 02:06 |
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| |tbb| | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4034&page=3 | 02:27 |
| |tbb| | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4034&page=3 | 02:27 |
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| * gpd takes delivery of Zune - won in a prize draw... | 02:38 | |
| |tbb| | gpd congrats | 02:39 |
| gpd | ya -- also an Intel Bad Axe 2 MoBo :) | 02:39 |
| gpd | shame I have no use for either --- ebay here we come | 02:39 |
| gpd | I have no clue about the Zune -- but i presume it can't even do USB mode -- media player only | 02:40 |
| glas5 | zune has special software | 02:41 |
| gpd | actually - it seems it does appear in My Computer for copying | 02:41 |
| glas5 | afaik it doesn't do the wmp media player mode at all... | 02:42 |
| gpd | I wonder if it could ever be useful as HDD for the N800 | 02:42 |
| gpd | nah -- i should just sell it -- evil little thing | 02:42 |
| glas5 | you'd need a power source probably | 02:43 |
| glas5 | yeah if you get a good price out of it.. | 02:43 |
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| gpd | glas5: what would you consider a good price: $200 ? | 02:43 |
| glas5 | well, its what? 250-260 in shop? | 02:44 |
| glas5 | i'd consider 200 to be a good price | 02:44 |
| glas5 | 240 in amazon... i wouldn't buy it used for 200 even if i for some strange reason wanted a zune :p | 02:45 |
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| gpd | i agree - but this was free and i need to decide if i should open and play - or just sell asap _ latter is prefered for now. enough toys in the last weeks! | 02:46 |
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| jeepers | hey... anyone know the upper limit for virtual memory from an sd card? | 03:11 |
| jeepers | can i use an entire 1gb card? | 03:11 |
| desrt | you'd be a little bit crazy to | 03:11 |
| maddler | jeepers: having 128MB swap is more than enough IMHO | 03:13 |
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| maddler | it was enough on 770... and more than enough on N800 | 03:13 |
| maddler | imho | 03:13 |
| maddler | btw time to hit the bed here... | 03:13 |
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| jeepersC | if anyone answered that as i was being psychotic please say it again | 03:16 |
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| xxRobot | Hello | 03:47 |
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| xxRobot | Who here is on their tablet right now | 03:50 |
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| xxRobot | Hi | 03:55 |
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| Sulis | xxRobot: you? | 04:05 |
| xxRobot | Hi | 04:12 |
| xxRobot | I am on my n800 | 04:12 |
| xxRobot | Plenty of idling here :) | 04:13 |
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| gpd | greeetings from a random mall cafe | 05:08 |
| Sulis | hi, random mall cafe! | 05:09 |
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| sri | hi all | 05:37 |
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| Tak | For those of you looking for an unencumbered NES game: https://downloads.maemo.org/product/efp/ | 08:15 |
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| elpaso | Good morning! | 10:07 |
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| Jose | Hi, when i try to open a real audio link in a web, media player returns anteseror "file format not supported" | 11:17 |
| Jose | Does anyone have similar problem? | 11:18 |
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| keesj | Mögge | 11:26 |
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| elpaso | hi kees | 11:36 |
| keesj | Hi | 11:36 |
| keesj | you want to test tuxpaint? | 11:36 |
| elpaso | yes | 11:36 |
| keesj | what on what os? | 11:36 |
| elpaso | n800 | 11:36 |
| elpaso | n770 i on repair | 11:37 |
| elpaso | another small question, if I want to develop for both N770 and N800 should I have two different scratchbox installed? | 11:38 |
| keesj | no , with the 2.2 release I shoud be possible to hava them all in one sbox | 11:38 |
| keesj | I am creating a qemu based img to develop on maemo, I plan to add the 4 targets in there | 11:39 |
| keesj | it is based on dsl (DammSmallLinux) | 11:39 |
| elpaso | great!! I hope it will be soon ready. | 11:39 |
| elpaso | bora, scirocco, mistral ... Things are getting very windy out there ;) | 11:40 |
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| keesj | elpaso: dio o | 11:42 |
| keesj | elpaso: dio oCatalogue name xmoto_testing | 11:42 |
| keesj | web address http://box.mmapps.net/~keesj/mud/ | 11:42 |
| keesj | Distribution bora | 11:42 |
| keesj | sorry that was my kid | 11:42 |
| elpaso | :) | 11:42 |
| keesj | http://paste-it.net/1224 | 11:42 |
| keesj | it is still uploading but can you try added this repository to your n880? | 11:43 |
| keesj | did you already have a bora sdl up and running? | 11:44 |
| elpaso | No | 11:44 |
| keesj | do you run windows or linux by default? | 11:44 |
| elpaso | Still suck to sb 0.9.8.8 IT2006 | 11:45 |
| elpaso | Run linux | 11:45 |
| elpaso | ubuntu dapper | 11:45 |
| elpaso | stuck | 11:45 |
| elpaso | BAck in a minute, go to take the N800 | 11:45 |
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| elpaso | I have a problem: | 11:51 |
| elpaso | tuxpaint | 11:51 |
| elpaso | Install these packages without verification [y/N]? | 11:51 |
| elpaso | E: Some packages could not be authenticated | 11:51 |
| elpaso | Even if I press Y or y it fails :( | 11:51 |
| keesj | hmm | 11:52 |
| elpaso | I've seen it before... | 11:52 |
| elpaso | Maybe some locale issue? | 11:52 |
| elpaso | it_IT here | 11:52 |
| elpaso | Will try with s/S | 11:52 |
| keesj | do you have the maemo repository in your apt source list? | 11:52 |
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| elpaso | YEs | 11:53 |
| elpaso | Ok, works with "s" | 11:53 |
| elpaso | Installing | 11:53 |
| elpaso | Did you apply my patches? | 11:53 |
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| keesj | I don't think so | 11:55 |
| elpaso | It works, but locales are not there... | 11:56 |
| elpaso | It's in english | 11:56 |
| elpaso | Saving works fine | 11:56 |
| keesj | in the right directory? | 11:56 |
| elpaso | Hmm... let me check. | 11:57 |
| elpaso | /home/user/.tuxpaint/saved/ | 11:57 |
| elpaso | My setup was to save in the mmc1/tuxpaint | 11:57 |
| keesj | but now with two mmc's I don't know what a good default is | 11:58 |
| elpaso | It's better since in .tuxpaint you cannot see them from the filemanager | 11:58 |
| keesj | ok where are you patches , ? | 11:59 |
| elpaso | Not patches, sorry, but are a just a few lines, I will try to get them | 11:59 |
| keesj | don't worry can you put that in the mud bugtracker? | 12:00 |
| elpaso | yes, address? | 12:00 |
| keesj | I am bzipping the qemu image so you can try | 12:00 |
| elpaso | in tuxpaint.c | 12:01 |
| elpaso | #define VIDEO_BPP 15 // saves memory | 12:01 |
| elpaso | // ABP: | 12:01 |
| elpaso | WINDOW_HEIGHT = 480; | 12:01 |
| elpaso | WINDOW_WIDTH = 800; | 12:01 |
| elpaso | Some tweaks in tuxpaint.conf | 12:02 |
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| elpaso | noprint=yes | 12:02 |
| elpaso | savedir=/media/mmc1/tuxpaint | 12:02 |
| keesj | the 800x480 and other tweaks are already in the upstream tuxpaint if I compile it with the N700 flag | 12:02 |
| elpaso | Ok... | 12:02 |
| elpaso | VIDEO_BPP 15 ?? | 12:03 |
| elpaso | We should decide where the saved images go... | 12:04 |
| keesj | perhaps small install popup asking? | 12:04 |
| elpaso | Yes, good idea | 12:04 |
| elpaso | Default to /home/user/MyDocs/.images/tuxpaint | 12:05 |
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| elpaso | So the user can see them in the filemanager | 12:05 |
| elpaso | Just need some help in setting up mud... | 12:05 |
| keesj | elpaso: I will help | 12:05 |
| elpaso | Thanks :) | 12:06 |
| elpaso | I would like to port some more libs and apps... | 12:06 |
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| keesj | hmmm the bzip is 800MB | 12:11 |
| elpaso | did you choose qcow ? | 12:12 |
| keesj | no just raw for the moment | 12:12 |
| elpaso | I think qcow is smaller... | 12:13 |
| keesj | there is only 1 gig of data on the cdrom | 12:13 |
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| keesj | I need to go , I will try do to some more later today | 12:15 |
| elpaso | Ok, hear you soon | 12:16 |
| keesj | mud shoud also work on the it2006 , just reading http://mud-builder.garage.maemo.org/docs/index.php?id=gettingstarted should be enough to get you started | 12:16 |
| elpaso | Ok, I will try... | 12:16 |
| koen | for 770 users/developers: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/performance-list/2007-February/msg00006.html | 12:26 |
| * pahartik wonders about what has been changed between Maemo 2.1 and Maemo 2.2 | 12:26 | |
| jonek | hi, where do I get the maemo gpg keys for the bora repos? | 12:30 |
| jonek | some of the apps in application catalog are not installable on the n800. are this known issues? | 12:33 |
| jonek | (apps for OS2007 I should say) | 12:34 |
| pahartik | inz: After upgrading to Maemo 2.2 firmware, I installed "osso-xterm 0.13.mh19" (had "osso-xterm 0.13.mh13" before)... Thank you for nice additional features | 12:42 |
| maddler | morning all | 12:44 |
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| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 12:46 |
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| jtra | pahartik: hey, there are other features for xterm too :) http://dastych.sh.cvut.cz/~jtra/tmp/screenshot03-irc.png I expect first working version by end of weekend | 13:01 |
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| maddler | sbaturzio: loha kahua! | 13:10 |
| maddler | s/loha/aloha/ | 13:11 |
| maddler | :) | 13:11 |
| sbaturzio | maddler: Ciao | 13:11 |
| pahartik | jtra: Very good | 13:12 |
| sbaturzio | maddler: about your source.list: on an N800 we can install "mistral" packages without fear? | 13:12 |
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| zuh | Not without fear, but usually they tend to work... ;) | 13:12 |
| maddler | sbaturzio: at least I did and had no problems... | 13:12 |
| maddler | til now :) | 13:12 |
| maddler | until | 13:12 |
| maddler | damn... :) | 13:12 |
| sbaturzio | maddler: :-) ok, but I start to think we need a central repository for all these packages, something like Debian unstable | 13:13 |
| sbaturzio | anyway I'll try to update my sources.list according your list | 13:13 |
| maddler | sbaturzio: that would be nice... but some QA would be needed then... | 13:18 |
| maddler | but overall I'd agree with you... | 13:18 |
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| xan | koen, are you going to work on the pixops patch? | 13:45 |
| pahartik | Does anyone here know if Maemo 2.2 does have newer Bluetooth firmware/driver than Maemo 2.1 | 13:45 |
| koen | xan: I don't really know C, I just made it apply to 2.10.x | 13:45 |
| xan | koen, I've been reading the patch and it seems to be a pretty straightforward conversion | 13:46 |
| xan | koen, I can make it, but won't be able to test anything until monday | 13:46 |
| koen | xan: anything would be great :) | 13:46 |
| xan | I was already on CC in the bug, but totally forgot about it | 13:46 |
| xan | I suck :) | 13:46 |
| koen | nah, the gtk+ dudes sucks for letting that patch rot for over 4 years | 13:47 |
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| jonek | is it possible to call a gaim user on a pc from the voip apps on the internet tablets? | 14:04 |
| zuh | koen: I'd remind that the patch was submitted when ARM wasn't in everyones pocket yet, and to GTK+ devs it would have sounded like "hey, I have this queer hw here and this patch works wonders for it" and since there's nothing to back it up in the bug, nor a way to test it for the devs... You just don't take a working solution and patch it for minority without a solid proof ;) And once a bug drops off the radar, they tend to stay that way. | 14:10 |
| zuh | Until people who care dig it up again | 14:11 |
| koen | zuh: you're forgetting that people like cworth, keithp and jg did have arm in their pockets long before that patch | 14:15 |
| keesj | koen: you don't know c? | 14:18 |
| koen | keesj: according to the university I know C, C++ and java well, but I couldn't code my way out of a wet paper bag | 14:18 |
| keesj | :p you just don't like it then ? | 14:19 |
| keesj | anybody wants to try the bora qemu sdk image? | 14:19 |
| keesj | my elpaso tester is gone , it's a 800MB image to be downloaded from my slow link | 14:20 |
| koen | keesj: I never bothered to get good at it, and I continue to be too stupid to get all the & and * pointer stuff right the first try | 14:20 |
| keesj | yes , that is quite hard. I can't either but I understand the concept so I say that I can code | 14:22 |
| keesj | So you are probabely a better coder with a less big mouth :p | 14:22 |
| melmoth | I m looking for a python example of osso rpc call with arguments. | 14:23 |
| melmoth | I can send a rpc call for a remote app and define a callback that is called.But i do not understand how to send some arguments to the remote app | 14:24 |
| melmoth | i try to add a tuple such as ("a","b") as the last and 5th arg of rpc_runs, but that does not seem to do the trick | 14:25 |
| melmoth | any idea appreciated | 14:25 |
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| tigert | http://tigert.1g.fi/blog-files/n800-theme/experimental/ | 14:34 |
| tigert | some tweaks to test if you want | 14:34 |
| tigert | (you need hildon-theme-cacher from the parent directory) | 14:34 |
| tigert | and its for N800 only for now | 14:34 |
| tigert | and no, no wallpaper yet | 14:35 |
| Fatal | how about a screenshot for us non n800 owners? :D | 14:35 |
| Fatal | oh, the plankton in parent is for 770? | 14:36 |
| Fatal | ah, no | 14:36 |
| tigert | no no | 14:39 |
| tigert | this is just a small update | 14:39 |
| tigert | some small tweaks | 14:39 |
| tigert | it looks largely the same | 14:39 |
| tigert | I'll commit the template, you can see there in a moment | 14:39 |
| nomis | tigert: pity I cannot test it for a while now. But I appreciate it :) | 14:40 |
| Fatal | tigert: oh well, i haven't seen the plankton theme at all | 14:42 |
| Fatal | tigert: so if it's n800 only, please let me know so i can stop searching :D | 14:43 |
| tigert | its for now only for N800 | 14:43 |
| tigert | well, it is easy to port to 770 | 14:44 |
| tigert | any volunteers? :) | 14:44 |
| tigert | just a few tweaks really | 14:44 |
| Fatal | right, so I'll repeat my original question | 14:44 |
| Fatal | how about a screenshot for us non n800 owners? :D | 14:44 |
| tko | tigert, you need to put it in some repository so that one can only click 'check for updates' in application manager rather than typing long urls :) | 14:44 |
| tigert | tko: yea | 14:44 |
| tigert | I was thinking of a garage project | 14:44 |
| tigert | will look into that | 14:44 |
| Akatemik | Mmh, any tips howto compile stuff using other python than the 2.3 that is integral to scratchbox? | 14:44 |
| xan | tigert, I like the new buttons better :) | 14:45 |
| tigert | Fatal: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/374514916/ | 14:45 |
| Fatal | tigert: ty | 14:45 |
| Akatemik | I'm trying to compile tinymail for 2.5, but it doesn't seem to care about my modifications to autoconf's files | 14:45 |
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| tigert | ok, its in svn too I hope | 14:46 |
| tko | hmm, we need to do some hack for themes so that when you update the plankton theme it gets automatically reapplied | 14:48 |
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| tko | new dialog buttons look a bit weird.. focused and insensitive buttons are much taller than normal unfocused buttons | 14:49 |
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| tko | umm, but not for all buttons | 14:50 |
| tko | try focusing the dialog buttons in Home/Select applets | 14:50 |
| tko | or Set background image dialog | 14:51 |
| xan | yeah, they look odd | 14:52 |
| xan | ugh, wait | 14:52 |
| xan | I know this bug :S | 14:52 |
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| xan | looks like the same thing that happened in the about dialog | 14:52 |
| xan | at least in the background dialog case | 14:53 |
| tko | I rebooted and it fixed itself :-] | 14:53 |
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| xan | weird | 14:54 |
| tko | since you know the bug, when are you going to fix it? :) | 14:54 |
| xan | in theory I did already | 14:54 |
| xan | but if it fixes with a reboot I guess it can't be the same thing | 14:54 |
| xan | I blame michael and theme switching | 14:54 |
| kjetilho | hi guys, what's the recommended software for downloading podcasts on the 770? | 14:56 |
| xan | I use the rss reader myself... | 14:57 |
| xan | but I recall there are other projects, check in garage | 14:57 |
| noir | hi | 14:57 |
| kjetilho | xan: oh, so it handles sound as well? | 14:58 |
| xan | well, it warns you when there are "media files" in the feed, so you can click and download/listen | 14:59 |
| kjetilho | oh, I'd like it to be more automatic than that. ideally it should refill my cache of unlistened audio whenever I'm on WLAN :-) | 15:00 |
| kjetilho | (automatically) | 15:00 |
| tigert | tko: reboot | 15:00 |
| tigert | tko: you have a mix of old and new bitmaps if you have that | 15:00 |
| tigert | it should have all buttons the same size now | 15:00 |
| xan | kjetilho, yeah, it's not really optimized for podcasts | 15:00 |
| tigert | yep. it is a bug with the theme not really updating itself when you switch | 15:00 |
| tigert | but I think the dither trick helped a lot with the banding, or what do you think? | 15:01 |
| xan | yeah, it did | 15:01 |
| tigert | the one big color step is intentional of course | 15:01 |
| tigert | it is supposed to look like "glossy" thing | 15:01 |
| tigert | but the others are not :) | 15:01 |
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| nomis | tigert: do you know http://www.atoptics.co.uk/ btw.? | 15:02 |
| tigert | no? | 15:02 |
| tigert | wooot | 15:02 |
| tigert | nice | 15:02 |
| xan | tigert, I think the reflect is too straight maybe? some kind of curve would be nice | 15:02 |
| tigert | xan: perhaps | 15:02 |
| tigert | need to study | 15:02 |
| tigert | its harder to do in inkscape :) | 15:03 |
| tigert | and it is already very slow to draw this template :) | 15:03 |
| tigert | the drop shadows make inkscape crawl :( | 15:03 |
| nomis | tigert: I think they also have software to simulate all kinds of optics effects. | 15:04 |
| tigert | yep | 15:04 |
| tigert | interesting stuff | 15:04 |
| tigert | linked to there from the flickr page | 15:04 |
| tigert | thanks | 15:04 |
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| nomis | tigert: you're welcome. And at some point I want to see that kind of effect myself :) | 15:05 |
| tigert | yeah | 15:05 |
| tigert | the speculative halo stuff on other planets is interestin too | 15:05 |
| tigert | are you going to LGM btw? | 15:05 |
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| nomis | tigert: I want to. | 15:06 |
| tigert | http://www.zen121446.zen.co.uk/files1/halosim361.zip | 15:06 |
| tigert | yeah | 15:06 |
| * tigert tries it in wine | 15:06 | |
| nomis | (and I think it should be possible although may probably will be crowded) | 15:07 |
| tigert | yeah | 15:07 |
| tigert | I try the same | 15:07 |
| tigert | we'll see | 15:07 |
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| MDK | tko: the theme is in sardine repo | 15:09 |
| tigert | woot | 15:09 |
| MDK | tko: so instead of creating yet-one-more-repository make we should focus on getting sardine into usable state | 15:09 |
| tigert | it works beautifully in wine | 15:09 |
| tigert | MDK: agreed too | 15:09 |
| tigert | MDK: perhaps maintain the stable branch in garage though? | 15:09 |
| MDK | well, we can | 15:10 |
| tigert | since sardine will break the layout if the theme is modified | 15:10 |
| MDK | true | 15:10 |
| MDK | apps will brake | 15:10 |
| MDK | we need sardine-stable | 15:10 |
| tigert | yes | 15:11 |
| tigert | ok. got to run | 15:11 |
| tigert | let me know if the theme eats your cat or something | 15:11 |
| tko | MDK, I don't want sardine on my stable device | 15:11 |
| MDK | this is really getting annoying. We invent X different systems, only to discover that a standard distribution-bundling (stable/unstable) system is the best | 15:11 |
| tko | :) | 15:11 |
| MDK | tko: yes, true. Because sardine is broken. | 15:11 |
| MDK | we should have sardine stable/unstable/experimental | 15:12 |
| tko | I wouldn't know, I only play with experimental :) | 15:12 |
| MDK | and instread of grarage extras, stuff should go into sardine stable | 15:12 |
| tigert | MDK: yeah | 15:13 |
| tigert | MDK: time to start making a good plan and advocating it | 15:13 |
| tigert | MDK: we just need to make some good plan and start promoting it. I think as long as there is no clear direction, everyone thinks their own ideas | 15:13 |
| tigert | which all could work | 15:13 |
| tigert | but not at the same time | 15:13 |
| tko | when we have the 'extras' as component, I think the difference would be fairly small | 15:13 |
| tigert | whih is the problem | 15:14 |
| tko | but we really need to write down the plan and enforce it some time to get things rolling | 15:14 |
| MDK | tko: let's fast-forward a little bit into future | 15:15 |
| MDK | let's say I've got a hildon-1 release | 15:15 |
| MDK | that's totally api-compatible with the past hildon-1 | 15:15 |
| MDK | just some bugfixes. A stable release. | 15:15 |
| MDK | how can I get this package to people's devices? | 15:16 |
| tigert | "as a flashable image!!!!111" | 15:16 |
| tko | just a side note, it has better be totally api compatible or someone is going to kick you :) | 15:16 |
| MDK | if we had sardine stable, I could put it there | 15:16 |
| MDK | and people would silently upgrade | 15:16 |
| MDK | the sardine stable would be totally low-traffic well-tested stuff | 15:17 |
| MDK | right now, if I put it into unstable, it'll get pulled with a lot of other crap | 15:17 |
| tko | well, we could do package upgrades, but it's a can of worms to define what gets uploaded there | 15:17 |
| MDK | that'll, more or less, make your device a 'developers device' | 15:17 |
| MDK | read = lots of stuff broken | 15:17 |
| keesj | MDK: I don't know where you get the "stable/unstable" idea from , but the bigest problem you currently have with the IT are the different releases, | 15:17 |
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| kulve | wasn't the herring supposed to be stable sardine? | 15:18 |
| MDK | tko: yes. We don't have to start with full support for 'stable' | 15:18 |
| MDK | I mean, it doesn't need to be (at first) official in any way | 15:19 |
| tigert | kulve: patience, patience... we will get it right one of these days! | 15:19 |
| MDK | official - understood as nokia providing support for it | 15:19 |
| MDK | keesj: different releases? | 15:19 |
| MDK | tko: we could start with just library upgrades | 15:20 |
| MDK | a place to push updated gtk, hildon, themes and some other stuff we tightly control | 15:20 |
| MDK | later we could start expanding it slowly | 15:20 |
| tko | MDK, remember also that there's difference between stable-as-far-as-developer-thinks and stable-as-in-passed-the-whole-set-of-tests | 15:21 |
| keesj | MDK: By having different IT releases you choose to introduce differences based on arbitrary deadlines, package should just contain flags about features ( like webcam) and "how" stable they are | 15:22 |
| tko | maemo and sardine are closer to the developers | 15:22 |
| MDK | keesj: ah, that's what you mean. I can only fully agree. | 15:23 |
| kjetilho | xan: gPodder was the top story on garage :) but it requires Python 2.5(!) | 15:26 |
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| keesj | did somebody try to run rockbox on maemo? | 15:30 |
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| kjetilho | another n00b question -- can I update all packages in one go? | 15:36 |
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| kjetilho | silly question, I guess you guys use apt-get upgrade instead of the Application manager. | 15:37 |
| tko | kjetilho, package upgrades (other that application manager installed) are not officially supported | 15:38 |
| kjetilho | so I have to select each package individually and push Update? | 15:39 |
| tko | that is possible | 15:39 |
| tko | I can't actually recall doing upgrades :) | 15:40 |
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| kjetilho | I've taken the red pill and have added some extra repositories, so I get suggested updates on ncurses and libjingle etc. | 15:41 |
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| kjetilho | grr, but now it is broken. "apt-worker exited." next package: "write: Bad file descriptor" | 15:44 |
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| kjetilho | okay, since Application manager was broken, I tried apt-get check as root, and got no errors. apt-get upgrade seemed to work well -- then spontaneous reboot. :-/ | 15:54 |
| kjetilho | hey -- it worked flawlessly on the second go :) | 15:59 |
| jtra | kjetilho: some packages break wathdog checking when being upgraded; you may need to disable watchdog | 15:59 |
| jtra | kjetilho: that is what I heard, I did not try that myself | 16:00 |
| kjetilho | ah, ok. I did the second attempt via sshd just to keep memory consumption down | 16:00 |
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| kjetilho | is this normal? /bin/sh: /usr/sbin/dpkg-preconfigure: not found | 16:06 |
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| keesj | kjetilho: yes | 16:07 |
| kjetilho | thanks | 16:07 |
| keesj | it is expected/known behaviour | 16:07 |
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| kjetilho | okay, so I've got gpodder installed, but it fails on startup with "import osso" -- anyone know which package that Python module is in? | 16:11 |
| sp3000 | python-osso would be the first to look for per usual naming | 16:12 |
| kjetilho | thanks! it's not in my repositories, though | 16:13 |
| sp3000 | python2.5-osso http://repository.maemo.org mistral/free | 16:14 |
| sp3000 | python2.4-osso //repository.maemo.org mistral/free | 16:14 |
| kjetilho | excellent! | 16:14 |
| sp3000 | phear my copypaste-fu | 16:14 |
| kjetilho | how did you look that up? | 16:14 |
| sp3000 | apt-cache search oss | grep python | 16:14 |
| sp3000 | apt-cache policy $pkg ... | 16:14 |
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| sp3000 | but of course that only works out if it is in your confuigured repositories | 16:15 |
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| kjetilho | duh, I should've thought of that. sorry! | 16:15 |
| kjetilho | I'm not quite used to having access to the full goodness of apt | 16:16 |
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| kjetilho | hehe, the deps for gpodder are somewhat lacking. now it fails on sax.saxutils :-) | 16:16 |
| keesj | This radio thing is really great (there are some bugs ) I can even use my n800 where there is no internet! | 16:18 |
| kjetilho | :-D | 16:18 |
| keesj | do you think the button on the headphone could be used to mute? | 16:18 |
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| tko | of course it could, just a matter of making the software do it.. | 16:32 |
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| kender | hi | 16:40 |
| keesj | Hi kender | 16:42 |
| kender | keesj, no answer from garage, is it? | 16:42 |
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| tko | ouch: http://www.nemein.com/people/piotras/view/1171116629.html | 16:43 |
| keesj | about upload? | 16:46 |
| kender | keesj, about cleaning "process", maemo-fm and so.. | 16:46 |
| keesj | kender: I don't know what you are talking about. I have been doing to much things at the same time | 16:49 |
| keesj | the gregrale install.txt is outdated http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/Maemo_tutorial.html#Installation and http://repository.maemo.org/stable/gregale/INSTALL.txt both talk about sbox-config :( | 16:52 |
| keesj | so even is piotras would flind the intructions... | 16:53 |
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| kender | keesj, the email that "we" send to the garage, asking about cleanning garage "empty" projects | 16:55 |
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| keesj | yes , sorry no nothing, | 16:55 |
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| keesj | kender: I don't know what do do next how can we escalate? | 16:57 |
| Veggen | mmmf, python2.5 conflicts with python2.4? | 16:58 |
| kender | keesj, maybe talk with ferenc directly? | 16:59 |
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| Veggen | people - my sqlite packages conflicts with each other. Which ones do people have installed? (dpkg -l | grep sqlite is fine) | 17:04 |
| sp3000 | ii libsqlite3-0 3.3.5-0.2osso1 SQLite 3 shared library | 17:05 |
| zuh | tigert: Great work in the plankton, BUT ;) the scrollbar slider looks like it's disabled and (worse) it blends in with the background. It's hard to make out where to poke at to start dragging... | 17:06 |
| zuh | tigert: Maybe it would work better with say a slight blue tint or something? | 17:06 |
| Veggen | hmm. Ok. That's different than on desktop. But ok, now I'm upgraded to python2.5... | 17:08 |
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| Veggen | ugh. | 17:28 |
| Veggen | gpodder is a memory pig. | 17:28 |
| Veggen | and process pig. ok, so far it's not really usable :) | 17:29 |
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| ajturner | so what's the difference, when adding a repository, between dist 3.0 and bora? | 17:38 |
| kulve | probably one is a link to the another? | 17:40 |
| ajturner | and I won't be able to install 2.0 apps on bora/3.0/N800? | 17:41 |
| kulve | it depends | 17:42 |
| kulve | they may work, or may not.. | 17:42 |
| kulve | often works by just recompiling on bora | 17:43 |
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| keesj | it often just works even without recompiling | 18:04 |
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| matt_c | Veggen: gpodder is a bit slow but I don't have any complaints. I usually just pop in, download media, and pop out though | 19:05 |
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| Veggen | matt: well, seems it's basically usable. I was trying to abuse it :) | 19:26 |
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| matt_c | Veggen: It's definitely nice for grabbing something to listen to on the run | 19:30 |
| Veggen | considering following a podcast for learning a language. It's either getting better in italian, or for example some russian... | 19:33 |
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| sri | howdy | 20:26 |
| sri | so how do I get my hands on the fm radio applet? | 20:26 |
| c0ffee | the url to the .deb file is in jaffa's blog on maemopeople | 20:27 |
| maddler | sri: http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/maddraves/2007/02/07/fm_radio_on_n800 | 20:27 |
| maddler | and on mine as well.. :D | 20:27 |
| sri | c0ffee: thank you | 20:27 |
| sri | maddler: thank you :) | 20:27 |
| sri | I should probably get an rss feed of that. | 20:28 |
| maddler | sri: take planet.maemo.org rss | 20:29 |
| maddler | this way you will get almost every other maemo related feed as well ;) | 20:30 |
| jonnylamb | i have just installed and configured the bora SDK. however, i want to do some editing on the core of maemo- specifically libconic (i think it's called that); does anyone know anything about this, or any good guides? | 20:31 |
| kulve | jonnylamb: read this: http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_connectivity_guide_bora.html ? | 20:35 |
| kulve | +have you | 20:35 |
| sri | maddler: ok | 20:36 |
| sri | maddler: is the fm applet supposed to work? :-) I don't seem to get any reception | 20:36 |
| jonnylamb | kulve: yes. the interesting parts there are just stolen from http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/api-bora/connectivity/libconic/index.html and of course the doxygen output is nicer :) | 20:36 |
| kulve | maddler: I think the devices own rss-reader still crashes on that? | 20:36 |
| jonnylamb | kulve: i suppose what i am really asking, is how to compile maemo itself.. is jhbuild (http://maemo.org/maemowiki/MaemoWithJhbuild) really the best way to go? | 20:37 |
| kulve | What do you mean by "maemo"? Do you want to compile all the single pieces..? | 20:38 |
| maddler | kulve: not mine... | 20:38 |
| maddler | I had a crash on TheRegister rss feed yesterday... | 20:38 |
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| maddler | but only using Atom feed... everything went fine with rss2... | 20:39 |
| tko | sri, you mean fmradio in tableteer (preconfigured repositories) ? | 20:41 |
| tko | sri, fm radio needs an antenna - plug in the headphones | 20:41 |
| jonnylamb | kulve: hmm, well i want to add soem functionality to libconic (i believe this is the right module).. do you think one could just recompile this part from source and drop it into place in scratchbox? | 20:41 |
| kulve | jonnylamb: get sources of it in SB. Compile it in SB. Copy the lib (or .deb) to the device (and install it in case of .deb) | 20:42 |
| kulve | that | 20:42 |
| kulve | that's the normal procedure recarding generic lib. Messing with connectivity can easily break things.. | 20:43 |
| kulve | maddler: When I got the device (the week it was annouced), clicking the RSS 2.0 feed on planet.maemo.org crashed the rss reader every time. Now it didn't. Maybe they've fixed something | 20:44 |
| kulve | jonnylamb: I usually build just by "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot". | 20:47 |
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| kulve | jonnylamb: I don't know anything about Jhbuild, so I'm not saying anything about that.. | 20:47 |
| jonnylamb | kulve: hmm, i'm not entirely sure i want to edit libconic though. i want to look into supporting a user name and password in proxies... | 20:48 |
| kulve | hmm.. | 20:49 |
| kulve | jonnylamb: when using e.g. the browser? | 20:49 |
| jonnylamb | kulve: i've looked around the repo and can't seem to find what i'm looking for.. maybe i'm being blind! | 20:49 |
| jonnylamb | kulve: well it should be a system-wide thing. after-all, proxies are set-up per IAP. every connection that uses the web should use this (opera, rss reader, application manager) | 20:50 |
| kulve | hmm. true | 20:51 |
| kulve | connection manager's settings include the proxy stuff in advanced -tab.. | 20:51 |
| sri | how did that guy "Hanno" install scummvm working on his N800? | 20:51 |
| maddler | sri: I got it from repo... | 20:52 |
| maddler | I'm playing BSS right now... | 20:52 |
| sri | man.. which repo? | 20:52 |
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| maddler | eh... lemme se... | 20:56 |
| maddler | sri: http://downloads.maemo.org/product/scummvm | 20:58 |
| maddler | point your browser to this link... | 20:58 |
| jonnylamb | kulve: mmm. apparently the proxy server & port are gconf values (i can't find a gconf editor for maemo- where is it?!) and i looked at the feed-reader/liferea source, and it took values of proxy server/port/username/password from gconf. however, apparently adding ones own gconf values doesn't help.. | 20:58 |
| sri | never I went there, it said no versions available. | 20:58 |
| sri | ack | 20:58 |
| sri | I went there, it said no versions available. | 20:58 |
| kulve | jonnylamb: the only gconf editor on the device is gconftool-2.. | 20:59 |
| kulve | dunno if somebody has compiled some graphical editors | 20:59 |
| jonnylamb | kulve: as this "global proxy support" is taken from gnome (Desktop->Preferences->Network Proxy).. it's all a little confusing atm though.. | 21:00 |
| sri | ah, maybe this: | 21:00 |
| sri | http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/scummvm_0.9.1_armel.deb | 21:01 |
| sri | man, that was the one killer app I wanted. scummvm | 21:03 |
| sri | monkey island.. here I come. | 21:03 |
| sri | better yet, monkey island 3! :) | 21:03 |
| zuh | kulve: http://gregarius.dropcode.net/demo/feed.php?channel=12&iid=65139&y=2007&m=01&d=16 (but don't see any packages though) | 21:05 |
| kulve | "Hope to be able to release it soon" | 21:06 |
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| tko | jonnylamb, basically the idea was that apps can follow the gnome standards for proxy settings and the connectivity framework will make sure those settings get updated when switching between networks | 21:17 |
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| tko | jonnylamb, come to think of it, it would be nice if we also implemented the network manager services... | 21:18 |
| jonnylamb | tko: yes. i looked at the source for the feed reader and it got the details from gconf (i think... don't hold me to it), but apparently adding these gconf values separately doesn't alter it.. | 21:19 |
| jonnylamb | tko: (details = proxy user name and password) | 21:19 |
| tko | jonnylamb, IIRC proxy authentication might've been overlooked | 21:21 |
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| jonnylamb | tko: do you think it'd be hard to add? | 21:21 |
| bedboi | anyone lives in london here? i have some questions | 21:22 |
| sri | is there a way to bring up a keyboard on app that currently doesn't seem to support keyboard entry? | 21:23 |
| sri | (eg scummvm) | 21:23 |
| tko | jonnylamb, technically no, process wise I'd rather not comment | 21:23 |
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| mukund | bedboi: i used to live in london till oct | 21:24 |
| mukund | s/used to live/lived/ | 21:24 |
| bedboi | do you know if there is a simple way to get to heathrow airport from tottenham ? (tottenham lane) | 21:25 |
| jonnylamb | tko: lol! i want to get into trying to add support for this, but i was discussing earlier, and i'm not quite sure the best way to approach it. i'm not even sure whether libconic is the thing to be editing... do you have any ideas?! | 21:25 |
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| mukund | bedboi: you need the tube map.. the fastest way to heathrow is taking the heathrow express, which is a non-tube train from paddington station to heathrow | 21:26 |
| mukund | you can also take the tube but it is slower | 21:26 |
| bedboi | but also cheaper :) | 21:26 |
| mukund | the tube map is for getting to paddington from tottenham court road (i'm guessing you mean that tottenham) | 21:26 |
| mukund | yah tube is cheaper :) | 21:27 |
| bedboi | mukund: don't really know, i never been in london...btw can i query? | 21:27 |
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| mukund | sure | 21:27 |
| tko | jonnylamb, quickly thinking it would require adding two items in the proxy configuration settings, which would include some UI work, some localisation, some backend work, testing, bugfixing, ... oh, and money :) | 21:27 |
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| maddler | sri: I prefer beneath a steel sky :) | 21:28 |
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| tko | hmm, monkey island 3? I was playing 1 and 2 on 770 (never played them on pc) and didn't even know about 3 - I think :) | 21:35 |
| xxRobot | Is there way to make playlists that actually work on the tablet? | 21:40 |
| suihkulokki | tko: you forgot arguing if it is poweruser or enduser feature :) | 21:42 |
| jonnylamb | tko: well i thought about the localisation and ui stuff. there is a convention used in places which uses username:password@server. upon submitting that form these could be spliced into their component parts or whatever... the thing that was really on my mind though was actually implementing it... is every outgoing web request made through a central api that handles proxies (this must be libconic).. and so every request should go th | 21:44 |
| jonnylamb | tko: woah, i'll try and keep these essays down! sorry! | 21:44 |
| tko | jonnylamb, I was only thinking about the advanced connectivity settings dialog | 21:47 |
| jonnylamb | tko: yes, i was only thinking of the actual workings of the handling the proxy!! | 21:48 |
| tko | arguably whenever you get '40something proxy authentication required' response the application should be prepared to ask for a password if it's not already known | 21:48 |
| tko | suihkulokki, tough call.. end users don't choose their networking environment | 21:49 |
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| tko | more entries in the UI makes it more complex, less entries and you can't access the network at all in some cases... | 21:49 |
| jonnylamb | tko: yes, but putting the UI aside for a second here; would libconic be the one to be editing, do you know? | 21:50 |
| tko | jonnylamb, I couldn't tell. I'd start from the UI | 21:51 |
| tko | jonnylamb, but considering it's closed source I'd just grep for signs of gnome gconf keys in libconic and go from there | 21:51 |
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| jonnylamb | tko: woooah, it's closed source?! | 21:52 |
| jonnylamb | tko: i think i've misread something here! | 21:52 |
| tko | jonnylamb, UI in general is | 21:52 |
| nelson | fmradio. Cool! The app needs a little help, though. | 21:52 |
| jonnylamb | tko: ah, don't mind about the UI! i'm more into implementing the actual feature!!! | 21:53 |
| tko | nelson, indeed. in 10 minutes I found 2 bugs and one enhancement.. after a while longer one more bug which I already forgot :) | 21:53 |
| tko | if only the sources were available... | 21:53 |
| jonnylamb | tko: you work for nokia, no? | 21:54 |
| roope | FM radio. New age. | 21:54 |
| tko | jonnylamb, well, grep for gconf keys and you might get lucky. I don't work on connectivity bits so I can't tell immediately where the implementation is | 21:54 |
| tko | jonnylamb, yes, but more on hildon, gtk and gnome (UI) related things | 21:54 |
| jonnylamb | tko: nice! why is it closed-source, or is it compicated/something...? | 21:55 |
| nelson | tko: yes; for example, it ought to allow folders in the list of stations (so that when I travel, I can select the folder for the current location) .... and that could work with GeoClue, couldn't it? | 21:56 |
| tko | jonnylamb, higher level decision | 21:56 |
| nelson | tko: high level, lower wisdom. | 21:56 |
| zuh | roope: At least it has a decent coverage between work and home, not like wlan (100m from house, inside office doors) | 21:56 |
| nelson | tko: another thing that would be handy is a "populate this folder with every possible station". | 21:57 |
| tko | nelson, oh, I was thinking something much more basic, like scanning the frequencies and picking up all the transmissions... | 21:57 |
| nelson | tko: right, that's what I mean. Why should I have to do that by hand? | 21:57 |
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| roope | Well, if you would suppose that the UI would the best in the world. (Speculate for a second. ;) | 21:57 |
| tko | nelson, and showing a 'loading...' infopring when clicking the icon on the applet | 21:57 |
| nelson | tko: also, in the USA, stations are only every 200khz; not every 50khz. | 21:57 |
| tko | nelson, but the geoclue sounds like a really nice idea | 21:58 |
| roope | zuh: well yes. But 3g is pretty nice, I don't have to care about wlans anymore. | 21:58 |
| tko | nelson, tigert would like you :-P | 21:58 |
| nelson | Hehe, that was a suckup to tigert, wasn't it?? | 21:58 |
| nelson | also ... I don't know if the hardware can do it, but if it can, it would be REALLY REALLY cool to listen to RDS to get the station name. | 21:59 |
| tko | roope, I pretty much agree the thinking behind open/closed UI is very sound -- if we had the best possible UI | 21:59 |
| roope | Well, best possible is impossible to define. But. | 22:00 |
| tko | nelson, naw, he's just been vocal about geoclue | 22:00 |
| tko | well, 'better than anyone else' | 22:00 |
| nelson | The thinking between a state religion and freedom os religion is very sound -- if you had the best possible religion. | 22:00 |
| tko | at the moment | 22:00 |
| roope | the UI really is the kind of the competitive advantage (or disadvantage) in many caess. the technical stuff kind of eventually gets uniform. | 22:01 |
| roope | Like a hundred devices can do gsm calls, but the UI is the thing where the diffferences start to come. | 22:01 |
| roope | so I quit ewell understand why Nokia would want to keep it closed sourec. | 22:02 |
| tko | when anyone brings up the decision about open/closed thing I usually bring up the sketch application :) | 22:02 |
| tko | though I can appreciate it's a huge gray area for making business decisions | 22:03 |
| roope | Yes, I'd love to see it being improved. :) | 22:03 |
| zuh | That's "competitive advantage" for you... | 22:03 |
| roope | But then again, many (kids) like the UI. ;) | 22:04 |
| roope | I've heard many anecdotes of children picking up the 770 and then just using Sketch for a long time. | 22:04 |
| roope | cause it's oh so simple. | 22:04 |
| tko | Nokia is closed by default company. but the amount of open source infected is increasing :) | 22:04 |
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| zuh | roope: And that's true too. Though my daughter was at it for 5min until she discovered a bug in it... | 22:05 |
| tko | oh well, frankly I also do bring up Notes and the pdf reader :) | 22:05 |
| xan | roope, it could be improved A LOT without making the UI any more complicated | 22:05 |
| roope | Yes it could. | 22:05 |
| tko | oh, and the calculator | 22:05 |
| roope | Anti-aliased brushed, better canvas size handling, better color picker, better brush size picker, pressure sensitivity etc. | 22:05 |
| roope | zuh: which bug? | 22:05 |
| nelson | Hmmmm..... The FM receiver's chip says nothing about RDS. :-( | 22:06 |
| sp3000 | a brush size between 1px and ~millionpx would be awesome :D | 22:06 |
| tko | basically there's stuff that no one else has and then there's stuff that everyone else has implemented better, but we're not exactly making the distinction yet | 22:06 |
| zuh | roope: The one where you select white color and go "hey, what happened to the button that selects colors!" | 22:06 |
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| roope | I thought there's a box around that color. | 22:06 |
| zuh | Not sure if it's still present, that was with 770 | 22:06 |
| roope | We fixed that. :) | 22:07 |
| tko | zuh, if it's still there you can blame MDK :) | 22:07 |
| kulve | it's not | 22:07 |
| kulve | I'm just skecthing.. | 22:07 |
| kulve | and the device booted in the middle :/ | 22:07 |
| tko | kulve, voluntarily? :) | 22:08 |
| suihkulokki | tko: osso-pdf-reader is free software | 22:08 |
| kulve | had to try it :) | 22:08 |
| tko | suihkulokki, I know. though it took a long time to become more common knowledge | 22:08 |
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| zuh | I tried one day to draw some ui draft with it, but I got frustrated with the fact that you can only start the drag inside the canvas (I was tinkering with corners) | 22:09 |
| roope | But being that the Sketch UI we did there is very basic, I don't quite... Um. How much work it would be to make a better one from scratch? | 22:09 |
| tko | fun.. the color selector defaults to grayscale for predefined colors and red for custom colors | 22:09 |
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| roope | It's really just the gtkdrawingpanethingy and some basic controls. | 22:10 |
| tko | ...oh, it's insensitive .. heh | 22:10 |
| roope | Sketching for a touch screen device should be a really key app. | 22:10 |
| tko | makes sort of sense after the fact, but is not obvious | 22:10 |
| tko | roope, we've been playing with the idea of writing the sketch from scratch... | 22:11 |
| zuh | <stupid pun>Be sure to sketch the UI first</stupid pun> | 22:11 |
| tko | duh.. I had played with the color selector and was trying to paint white on white.. and got absolutely no feedback whatsoever :-] | 22:13 |
| kulve | the fullscreen sketch should really be fullscreen.. | 22:13 |
| kulve | now switching to fs keeps the drawing area the same.. | 22:13 |
| tko | what's with the + | 22:13 |
| roope | +- changes brush size. ;) | 22:13 |
| tko | in the filled rectangle and ellipsisi toolbar icons? when you paint they're not filled... | 22:14 |
| tko | side note: you really don't want me to play with your application if you think it's perfect ;-) | 22:14 |
| roope | I don't think it's perfect. :) | 22:15 |
| tko | somehow I just manage to find bugs everywhere | 22:15 |
| zuh | I'd still prefer a vector graphics tool | 22:15 |
| kulve | and usually a coder likes a way different UI than a "regular end user" | 22:15 |
| roope | It was a really hard compromise to get even those features. | 22:15 |
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| roope | I'd love to improve the spec one day, but then agian, it's not really my decision. | 22:15 |
| zuh | But I guess that's because I'm an engineer and not an artist :) | 22:15 |
| tko | but really, now I'm too distracted, what's with the '+' ? | 22:16 |
| tko | is it supposed to mean something? | 22:16 |
| roope | I dunno. "Add" :D | 22:16 |
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| zuh | It would make sense if the drag point would be in the center, but... | 22:18 |
| tko | ok, I'll bite.. so I can 'Add' rectangles and ellipsis, but not free hand drawings nor lines? :) | 22:18 |
| roope | There was no + when I dropped off the spec, let's put it that way. :) | 22:18 |
| tko | ahh.. that must be the polished look'n'feel then :-P | 22:19 |
| roope | Part of our overall great graphics. ;) | 22:19 |
| tko | roope, were the icons filled still? :) | 22:19 |
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| roope | Nope. | 22:20 |
| tko | riiight.. I give up | 22:20 |
| roope | (I actually wanted to drop box and circle, since nobody uses them anyway.) | 22:20 |
| roope | But well. Voices From Above prevented. :) | 22:20 |
| tko | is the brush size dependent on the tool used as originally designed? | 22:21 |
| roope | Yes. | 22:21 |
| tko | heh.. I find it confusing | 22:21 |
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| roope | The idea was that eraser is usually used big and pen small. :) | 22:21 |
| sp3000 | it's good for draw / erase | 22:21 |
| zuh | That sounded like a good title for a musical album: "Voices From Above - The Booming Sounds of Doom" | 22:22 |
| tko | but then again, I've never seriously drawn anything so don't listen to me :) | 22:22 |
| tko | oh, very good point. I always expect the eraser to work differently from all other drawing tools, but one drawing tool to behave differently from the next | 22:23 |
| roope | There's also no way to exactly set the canvas size by pixels, you can 'thank' me for that. ;) | 22:23 |
| tko | well, "thank" you :) | 22:24 |
| tko | FWIW UI design is not the only area where you get the "wtf was this guy thinking" feelings when you look at the thing afterwards | 22:25 |
| * zuh wonders who to thank for all the two-paned UIs that don't remember their state | 22:25 | |
| tko | prolly the same guy who thought two paned UI is a good idea in the first place.. | 22:26 |
| * tko is thinking about the open file dialog | 22:26 | |
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| roope | Hm, I should put my 1-pane open dialog design to the Grill. | 22:27 |
| tko | it's not bad as such, just feels suboptimal | 22:27 |
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| tko | many things look good on 800px wide screen if you ignore the actual font size... | 22:28 |
| sp3000 | pathbars ftw? | 22:28 |
| * sp3000 shrugs | 22:29 | |
| tko | roope, IMO we should look into reducing the number of 'tiny' dialogs which pretty much waste 50% of the screen size just because they're dialogs | 22:29 |
| zuh | Ok, now that you brought it up, what's with the UI being 50% dialogs?-) | 22:30 |
| zuh | ...when you already need to cut down the actual windows to fit... | 22:30 |
| roope | Well, easier to implement. I guess. | 22:31 |
| tko | with my very limited UI design experience my idea for a file dialog is one pane thingie with a 'back' button on top (with the current directory as label) possible combined with thumbnail/list toggle button right aligned on top -- as big dialog as possible | 22:31 |
| roope | easier to design. UI switching between views is actually pretty bad always. | 22:31 |
| tko | 'as seen in windows' ? | 22:31 |
| roope | If an app has multiple views, switching between those views is hard. | 22:31 |
| roope | one view + multiple dialogs on top of more manageable. | 22:31 |
| suihkulokki | great example of popup dialog disease in our UI. try to setup the proxy for a saved connection | 22:31 |
| xan | tko, not using the fullscreen for basically everything on a tiny screen should be a crime, IMHO | 22:31 |
| xan | tko, using tiny dialogs is beyond belief, of course :) | 22:32 |
| roope | I agree about the dialog sizes, they could be full height easily. | 22:32 |
| zuh | roope: But that's a problem in the window management, which is not solved by using dialogs... | 22:32 |
| roope | It's also an UI design problem. | 22:32 |
| roope | Check the media player for instance. | 22:33 |
| roope | It has two main views. Now tell me that's not confusing. :) | 22:33 |
| suihkulokki | we end having the stack of "control panel -> popup of connectivity -> popup of connections -> Connection setup popup -> and finally advanced settings popup with proxy settings | 22:33 |
| sp3000 | tko, why not gnome's pathbar directly, since you're going to have to use that much space anyway | 22:33 |
| zuh | roope: The whole thing is confusing... | 22:33 |
| zuh | ;) | 22:33 |
| tko | just a thought, but I think all modal dialogs should cover half of the task navigator and statusbar since you can't access them anyway -- normal dialogs could cover pretty much most of the application area | 22:33 |
| suihkulokki | BTW, what's the deal with + and - buttons for proxy port number? | 22:34 |
| suihkulokki | usually the proxy port is either 8000 or 8080 | 22:34 |
| sp3000 | (i.e. you lose a row or a column for going up anyway, so going up further in one tap is a win if you don't need to lose more room for that) | 22:34 |
| suihkulokki | who is going "+" their way from 0 to 8000 x) | 22:34 |
| roope | Dialogs should have background dimming. modal dialogs also task bar dimming. | 22:34 |
| tko | sp3000, if there's one thing I've learned from UI design, it's that you want to keep it simple. you *really* want to remove all possible elements that are not relevant | 22:34 |
| tko | suihkulokki, it's the number editor widget | 22:35 |
| tko | suihkulokki, makes sense for a range of 1..10 or so :) | 22:35 |
| roope | I fail to understand why background dimming proves to be so hard. :) | 22:35 |
| sp3000 | tko: and populating can be slow, so doing multiple single step up cycles could be frustrating if you start deep | 22:35 |
| roope | It cannot be that hard - can it? | 22:35 |
| tko | suihkulokki, and when you have a number editor all your problems look like... err, numbers? :) | 22:35 |
| roope | +- is also a hint about the field wanting numbers. | 22:36 |
| suihkulokki | tko :) | 22:36 |
| zuh | roope: It is if you don't own the windows to be dimmed... (without composite etc) | 22:36 |
| tko | roope, we need to talk more about what would be acceptable effect | 22:36 |
| sp3000 | tko: not that often I hear complaints about gnome complicating ui excessively :P | 22:37 |
| sp3000 | more like the opposite | 22:37 |
| suihkulokki | even for 1..10 (even if one is a imbesill and not a "poweruser"), it's faster to type 10 with VKB than + your way there :) | 22:37 |
| * sp3000 shrugs some more for good measure | 22:37 | |
| tko | roope, the mockups / ideas I've seen all strongly suggest that we technically need composite manager with its own memory and cpu requirements.. but there might be something in between that could be good enough but we haven't really explored the area | 22:38 |
| roope | UI design with dialogs as such isn't theoretically any worse or better than with views. If the dialogs would take effective use of the space and dim the background, they would be pretty. They have good sides also. | 22:38 |
| roope | Open file dialog is consistent, once the user learns how it behaves it's the same everywhere etc. | 22:38 |
| tko | roope, for example making the whole application area dimmed in terms of widget graphics would be more or less trivial | 22:38 |
| roope | tko: Yeah. (Although I have no idea what that means. :D | 22:38 |
| roope | It's as silly as someone saying "Oh, dropdowns are bad!" (I actually heard that this week.) | 22:39 |
| sp3000 | tko: also the pathbar reduces to your suggestion in the common case of not being very deep in a hierarchy | 22:39 |
| sp3000 | just saying :) | 22:39 |
| tko | roope, I meant that we already have 'dimmed' state defined for all (or most) widgets | 22:39 |
| roope | Yeah. But ... that sounds hacky, frankly. | 22:39 |
| roope | Applications can display whatever content they please. And our dimmed states are not visually similar. | 22:40 |
| roope | Plus 3rd parties can display whatever they please. Dimming only works if it's done in a visual manner. | 22:40 |
| tko | that said, thoroughly dimming the screen really does have much stronger impact | 22:40 |
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| roope | I remember when we did dimming on web sites in 1999 by putting a transparent xoxo (grid) black repeating png file on top of the image. | 22:43 |
| roope | so that every second pixel was transparent and every other not. :) | 22:43 |
| tko | roope, 'dropdowns are bad' ? meaning menus? I'm pretty much convinced cascading menus are suboptimal for us, especially for anything the task navigator | 22:44 |
| roope | No, this guy was referring to the dropdown widget. The list thingy. | 22:44 |
| roope | I agree about the task navigator part. | 22:44 |
| keesj | and is the internet connected to the 770 the same as the one connected to the n800? | 22:45 |
| tigert | roope, check out my new theme version | 22:46 |
| melmoth | anybody here familiar with libosso (and preferrabily python) ? I would like an example of rpc call with arguments | 22:47 |
| tko | ah, well, the combobox dropdown list is suboptimal.. I blame gtk and myself, but the current way was the easiest way to get a scrollbar for the dropdown | 22:47 |
| tigert | http://tigert.1g.fi/blog-files/n800-theme/experimental/ | 22:47 |
| roope | a screenshot, perchance? | 22:47 |
| tigert | looks mostly same. but small tweaks | 22:48 |
| tko | hmm, for theme updates, should one be posting 'before' and 'after' screenshots? :) | 22:48 |
| tigert | buttons are cooler and i tweaked the tthumb kbd a bit, stinn in progress thhough | 22:48 |
| * tko is still getting annoyed by all garage projects without screenshots | 22:49 | |
| roope | I'm still happy you did the top right corner like that. :) | 22:50 |
| roope | cause It's The Way It's Meant To Be Done (tm) | 22:50 |
| tko | umm.. is it intentional that the 'fkb showing' sound effect is *not* played if you use the select key? | 22:51 |
| roope | Yeah. The "fluup" sound is the thumb detection sound. | 22:51 |
| roope | I specified "like a finger on a surface". I think it's funny. :D | 22:51 |
| roope | Then again, yea, I gues you could also think it's the thumb kb sound. | 22:52 |
| tko | I'm having trouble figuring out what kind of surface the sound effect is trying to express | 22:52 |
| roope | But the HW select button gives you the feedback anyway haptically, so. | 22:52 |
| tigert | its the "i am eating while typing"-sound :) | 22:52 |
| bedboi | tko: eheh, yep | 22:52 |
| roope | Yes, it's a bit hollywood version. ;) | 22:53 |
| tko | oh well, my mental model often does not match what's intended, and given my background it's sometimes wise to ignore my ramblings :) | 22:54 |
| roope | Basically the sound is there because hte user might be unsure whether he pressed with sufficient forec. With the HW select it's very obvious. | 22:56 |
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| tigert | the sound is nice | 22:56 |
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| tko | uhh.. considering the sound appears to be played *after* the fkb appears, I'd be inclined to think there's already enough feedback... | 22:57 |
| tigert | although it doesnt always play =) | 22:57 |
| roope | Well, it's specified to play before it appears. :) | 22:57 |
| tigert | it should play it in place of the tap sound that also plays | 22:57 |
| tko | the only confusing part about the sound is that it's not obviously linked with anything | 22:57 |
| roope | Yes, if implementation would allow. | 22:57 |
| suihkulokki | tko: you could dim the backround of a dialog by taking a screenshot dimming that, and displaying the result on top of the "real" desktop | 22:58 |
| tigert | lets make it work :) | 22:58 |
| tko | guess we're showing the fkb too fast.. must slow it down :-P | 22:58 |
| tigert | we need to do more little things since those are the ones that get dropped from critical bug lists before every release anyway | 22:59 |
| tko | if the sound is about finger detection, why don't I hear anything with the TN menus? | 22:59 |
| tigert | tko :) | 22:59 |
| roope | cause that would be just annoying. :) | 22:59 |
| sp3000 | I've thought that sound reminiscent of dropping a clunky keyboard on a soft surface such that the keys rattle | 22:59 |
| roope | Well, it's about both. It's the signal that "don't worry, the fkb is coming!" | 22:59 |
| tko | which brings me back to the mental model.. | 22:59 |
| sp3000 | no doubt due to it playing as a keyboard appears ;) | 22:59 |
| tko | suihkulokki, we tried various ways but none were fast enough IIRC | 23:00 |
| tigert | roope: "olette edelleen jonossa.wav" =) | 23:00 |
| tko | lol | 23:00 |
| tko | tigert, design by committee is also pretty effective in not getting any of the little things fixed with any reasonable effort | 23:02 |
| tigert | yes | 23:02 |
| roope | Yes! :) | 23:02 |
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| tigert | hmm. how much of the vkbd layout is hardcoded? | 23:03 |
| tko | hmm, or should I say 'board' ? :) | 23:03 |
| tko | tigert, I think the special buttons on the sides are, the qwerty layout was replaceable | 23:04 |
| tigert | ok | 23:04 |
| tigert | is the thumb board open or closed source? | 23:05 |
| suihkulokki | guess once? | 23:05 |
| suihkulokki | tko: ah, yes, that's not a very fast effect on desktop either | 23:05 |
| tigert | the stylus board is open? at least its in the devel rootstrap? | 23:05 |
| tigert | or is that bin only? | 23:06 |
| tko | tigert, none of the UI is open, but the file format for layouts is (sort of) documented | 23:06 |
| tko | just trying to find the link... | 23:06 |
| sp3000 | tigert: "buttons considerably lighter" might have gone too far | 23:06 |
| tko | http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_him_bora.html | 23:06 |
| sp3000 | I like the heftier scrollies | 23:06 |
| * sp3000 brings on the committee | 23:06 | |
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| tko | near the end there's 'Virtual Keyboard Layout XML file' | 23:06 |
| roope | FKB UI is closed source. It's not ... it's not one of the worst parts of the UI, at least. :) | 23:07 |
| roope | I do understand Nokia quite well on it. | 23:07 |
| tko | and judging from the looks of if (width/height attributes which look like pixel measurements) the complete content of the 'qwerty' part of the VKB is customazible | 23:07 |
| tko | hrm.. typo++ | 23:08 |
| tko | input methods work pretty nicely indeed | 23:08 |
| tigert | yeah. it is the best handheld text input ui i have ever used | 23:09 |
| tko | my only peeves about input methods are that they're not open and they're relying on hacks to gtk | 23:09 |
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| tko | ok, I'm also ignoring the hwr though :) | 23:10 |
| suihkulokki | was XIM somehow insufficent? | 23:10 |
| suihkulokki | or how did the current scheme end up so gtk-tied? | 23:11 |
| roope | what's XIM? | 23:11 |
| tko | suihkulokki, I think one contributing factor was that implementing XIM is complicated | 23:11 |
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| koen | suihkulokki: to maximize ROI as seize more profit | 23:11 |
| tko | suihkulokki, ..and at the same time insufficient | 23:12 |
| tigert | X input method | 23:13 |
| roope | when I google for it, all i get is chinese IM hits. | 23:14 |
| tigert | lower level than gtk afaik | 23:14 |
| tko | suihkulokki, and technically it's not really tied to gtk. it's all based on X messages (afaik) but it's just that we don't have any other widget sets needing it (and we definitely need gtk widgets to integrate with it) so the only implementation was made to support gtk | 23:14 |
| roope | http://images.google.com/images?hl=&q=%22x%20input%20method | 23:14 |
| suihkulokki | tko: fair enough.. tho it would have been nicer to actually bring these issues up with the community and attempt to create a open replacement for XIM | 23:16 |
| tko | suihkulokki, at the time these things were conceived it was politically impossible | 23:16 |
| tko | or at least extremely delicate | 23:17 |
| tko | (that was the time long before the public heard the first word of 770) | 23:18 |
| ajturner | wow - just installed the media streamer and it automatically detected my mythtv server | 23:20 |
| koen | ajturner: and does it work? | 23:20 |
| ajturner | however, when I select an episode it just says "object not found" :/ | 23:21 |
| ajturner | *so close* | 23:21 |
| koen | it detects mine as well, but it doesn't work with it | 23:21 |
| koen | ah, right | 23:21 |
| ajturner | that's impressive | 23:21 |
| ajturner | so what does that mean? | 23:21 |
| ajturner | is there a log somehwere | 23:21 |
| koen | canola errors out as well | 23:21 |
| ajturner | shucks | 23:21 |
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| ajturner | so you haven't been able to watch your mythtv shows on yours? | 23:21 |
| tko | a-ha. clearly it's all canola's fault, somehow :) | 23:21 |
| koen | of course | 23:22 |
| koen | it's always the fault of proprietary crap | 23:22 |
| ajturner | so no go currently? | 23:22 |
| wwalker | I added http://repository.maemo.org/ to the application catalog and get "Unable to refresh list. Last refreshed list is shown." Any ideas? | 23:23 |
| tigert | see log | 23:24 |
| tigert | probably a typo in the url | 23:24 |
| tko | wwalker, my guess is that the Distribution or Component are incorrect | 23:25 |
| tigert | tools > log | 23:25 |
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| sri | question, how does one get canola | 23:25 |
| sri | seems like the only music player that does daap | 23:25 |
| keesj | tools log. brilliant! | 23:27 |
| wwalker | tigert: I don't have tools-> log | 23:28 |
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| wwalker | is Log a tool I need to install via the Application Manager? | 23:31 |
| tigert | no | 23:31 |
| tigert | in app manager menu | 23:31 |
| tigert | not in main menu | 23:31 |
| wwalker | tigert: ah! thx | 23:32 |
| wwalker | I just bought a 770 used. is there an IRC client? | 23:34 |
| wwalker | I have no book, so things like how to copy files on and off (just saved the tools->log to a file) are beyond me, which is why I'm trying to get sshd running. | 23:35 |
| Whiz | wwalker, xchat | 23:36 |
| tko | I know of irssi, xchat and gaim | 23:36 |
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| wwalker | "fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/mistral/user/binary-armel/Packages.gz 404 Not Found..." | 23:36 |
| wwalker | does irssi work well? I use irssi on my regualr machine (linux) all the time), and I have an xterm on the 770 now | 23:37 |
| wwalker | anyone see the error in the above URL? | 23:37 |
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| tko | wwalker, typo somewhere -- there's http://repository.maemo.org/dists/mistral/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz | 23:37 |
| wwalker | Is that a good repo to use (once we find my typo? | 23:37 |
| wwalker | AHA! thx tko | 23:38 |
| tko | free, main, user.. what's the difference anyway? :) | 23:38 |
| wwalker | the place I found the reference didn't have anything but the host name | 23:39 |
| tko | mind boggles why custom repositories can't use the structure that's the default in the UI | 23:39 |
| tko | it's like, "it was hard to set up the repo so it should be hard to use it" :) | 23:39 |
| tko | oh, and if you think I'm complaining be glad I'm not timeless :-P | 23:40 |
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| tigert | it occurred to me too | 23:45 |
| ptman_ | Hi! I hacked together a google reader client, which, while not graphical, fetches unread items from google reader, and later syncs back read and "starred" items | 23:45 |
| tigert | why not use the default values for other than hostname? | 23:45 |
| ptman_ | I did it mostly for myself, to be able to read rss comfortably offline | 23:46 |
| tigert | sounds cool. ncurses? | 23:46 |
| ptman_ | but then I realized, that there is a project called feed-reader in garage, and I'd like to talk with the developer | 23:46 |
| ptman_ | not even ncurses | 23:46 |
| tigert | ok | 23:47 |
| ptman_ | plain terminal, formats html by dumping through a links -port that I found somewhere | 23:47 |
| keesj | ptman_: sounds nice | 23:47 |
| ptman_ | I'm really suprised that garage projects don't have mailing lists, or do they? | 23:48 |
| ptman_ | I couldn't find one | 23:48 |
| tigert | they can, i think? | 23:48 |
| ptman_ | if someone is interested, I can make the source available | 23:48 |
| tigert | at least gforge should support them | 23:48 |
| ptman_ | ah, that's right, canola has mailing lists in garage | 23:49 |
| ptman_ | I wouldn't want to open a bug to contact the developer | 23:49 |
| tigert | ptman, i am thinking it would be sweet to have a really nice and well thought out rss+podcast+videopodcast setup | 23:49 |
| tigert | which supported googlereader and bloglines etc | 23:50 |
| tigert | and would work with enclosures by downloading them to memory card | 23:50 |
| tko | each garage project should have the (registered) developers list very visible (right hand side on the projects page) as well as links to forums, bug tracker and mailing lists -- if enabled | 23:50 |
| tko | the admin + developers list is always visible I think | 23:51 |
| ptman_ | it sure would be nice, if someone would make it, I just hacked this together in python tonight | 23:51 |
| *** ptman_ is now known as ptman | 23:51 | |
| tigert | my ipod makes itt easy to follow podcasts as new unlistened ones have a blue dot | 23:51 |
| tigert | and then on next sync it wil remove listened ones | 23:52 |
| tigert | the tablet doesnt need a pc for this, which makes it great for rss | 23:52 |
| ptman | ahaa, but are you thinking about a syncing for the podcast -part of that? because I think the maemo platform is powerful enough to not be ordered around by a PC | 23:53 |
| tigert | ptman, yeah. just thinking aloud here :) | 23:53 |
| tigert | yeah, precisely. we can be self-sustained. | 23:53 |
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| ptman | I think, that if I were to listen to podcasts, I'd probably do it all on the 770, but reading blogs, well, it's very nice to be in sync with a desktop (or all desktops you use, with google reader), so that you don't have to see them all again | 23:54 |
| tigert | man. i think i am getting close to perfect thumb kboard theme. th feedback is very good now with the light buttons that turn blue when pressed | 23:55 |
| ptman | sounds good, I've always admired your talents with graphics | 23:55 |
| tigert | ptman, yes | 23:56 |
| tigert | the rss tool should sync with a service like bloglines. even so that if i add a new one in the tablet rss tool, it would add it to the service also automatically. | 23:56 |
| ptman | hmm... that's a todo-item, then =) | 23:57 |
| ptman | I have only two gripes with google reader: 1) you can't _SEARCH_ the subscriptions you have | 23:57 |
| tigert | therre is a bloglines client, at least for the 770 | 23:57 |
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| ptman | I mean, it's only the blog-portal of the worlds most popular search, engine, so you'd expect that | 23:58 |
| sbaturzio | Aloha! | 23:58 |
| ptman | 2) Can't add password protected feeds | 23:58 |
| *** behdad has quit IRC | 23:59 | |
| tigert | ptman, yes. its just silly. google service that lacks search. | 23:59 |
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