IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2007-01-29

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lardmanRobot101: Bit late, but I did just find the manual, on the N800 itself00:11
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lardmanCan anyone point me to instructions to easily package a command line app - using dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot, etc.?00:47
SyntaxNinjalardman: have you installed scratchbox, etc?00:47
c0ffeeis the app already debianized?00:47
lardmanSyntaxNinja: Yes ;)00:47
SyntaxNinjalardman: when I first learned to package tools w/ debian, here's the manual I used:
lardmanc0ffee: yes, I have the diff & dsc from debian packages00:48
c0ffeeafter unpacking the orig sources and applying the diff00:48
c0ffeefakeroot debian/rules binary00:48
lardmanhmm, needs slice00:49
* sp3000 wonders how that differs from dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b, if at all00:49
c0ffeeprobably not :)00:49
c0ffeeif you want to compile package foo00:49
lardmansp3000: lardman would also be interested to know00:49
c0ffeeyou should type apt-get build-dep foo00:49
c0ffeeapt-get source foo00:49
c0ffeecd foo-*00:49
c0ffeedpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot etc00:50
SyntaxNinjaIt would be really nice if someone created a n800-dev package which depended on all the right magic packages for maemo and scratchbox and configured the system for cross-compilation using a postinst script or something :)00:50
SyntaxNinjainstead of the ~200 steps that I'm following on the wiki, most of which I can't tell whether they apply to me or not ;)00:51
c0ffeei just followed the INSTALL.txt and it worked[tm]00:51
SyntaxNinjathis one: ?
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SyntaxNinjaHm. I found a different starting point that got me to a generic scratchbox installer wiki page00:55
SyntaxNinjabut anyway, I'm learning more about it all this way, so it's OK :)00:55
mitchelocis anyone here responsible for discount codes? i'm speaking with the author of freeswitch in another IRC room and the n800 isn't compatible (voip capabilities over jabber), if he can get one cheap/free he said he'll add support01:02
c0ffeethe gtalk is voip over jabber01:02
c0ffeeand it uses libjingle01:02
lardmanHmm, I appear to need something called slice, do I need to compile this myself or is it something standard for debian?01:02
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c0ffeemitcheloc, anyway, see applications should be send to Quim dot Gil at
mitchelocthanks c0ffee, i passed the info along to him :)01:06
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mitchelochmm, could someone try calling into "" maybe my device is acting up01:09
lardmandamn! I just ran dpkg-buildpackage and it effectively did make distclean. Arrgh01:10
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mrugood evening folks01:11
mruI thought someone here might like to know that I just committed some ffmpeg optimizations for armv601:12
mrui.e. n80001:12
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lardmanmru: sounds good01:13
mruthe sample video that came on the n800 decodes 6% faster than before01:13
mitchelocmru: how do we access your changes?01:13
mruffmpeg svn01:14
* Jaffa slaps together for any Londoners about.01:15
Jaffamru: excellent01:17
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Markovis there any documentation to help me out that would precede the maemo Turoial?01:28
lardmanMarkov: Getting to know about what in particular?01:28
Markovlardman, how do compile a very, very simple program01:29
Markovpossibly on linking to libraries01:29
Markovrudamentary stuff01:29
lardmanMarkov: effectively standard stuff (due to scratchbox), search for gcc01:29
lardmangcc somefile.c -o somefile.out01:30
Markovlardman, "effectively standar stuff" what does this mean?01:30
Markovi know how to use gcc01:30
lardmanIt's the same then01:30
Markovwhen i look in the tutorial under building a package, it says to run some dpkg-buildpackage or something01:31
Markovwhat happened to gcc?01:31
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lardmanwhen you're in scratchbox, you just pretend that you're compiling natively01:31
lardmanMarkov: Well that bit has me stumped too, but for simple stuff you can just use gcc as usual. No idea how to package though01:32
Markovlardman, okay. do yo9u know if i can load somefile.out with the provided emulator?01:32
lardmanyes you can01:32
lardmanjust run it inside scratchbox01:33
Markovokay. so what would ./maemo_hello do?01:33
lardmanthe script does some fiddling about to allow GUI apps to be run01:34
lardmanor at least maemo linked apps, iirc01:34
lardmanI thought you wanted simple though ;) or did you mean simple gui?01:35
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Markovi guess i mean simple gui01:38
Markovis there any use for command line tools on n80001:38
lardmanGUI is always nicer, but things without a GUI will always be needed01:39
lardmane.g. things that don't interact with the user01:39
mitchelochmm, tapioca installs but doesn't start on the n800... :(01:40
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lardmanmitcheloc: what does the error show?01:40
mitchelocit just plain doesn't start01:42
mitcheloci take by the screen shots it was designed for the n77001:42
lardmanmitcheloc: Ah, you could always start it from the command line to see what it says01:43
Markovi'm sorry, but how do i edit a file from w/in scratchbox?01:43
lardmanmitcheloc: vi01:43
c0ffeeMarkov, vim01:43
lardmanmitcheloc: sorry, wrong person01:43
mitchelocwrong person :)01:43
Markovi dont use that?01:43
mitcheloclardman: i'm just going to uninstall it, i re-read the description and it doesn't do what i want01:43
c0ffeeMarkov, then type vimtutor instead :)01:44
mitcheloci *really* want a sip client01:44
lardmanmitcheloc: My comment about vi01:44
mitchelocheck i'd pay extra for it if it worked well01:44
c0ffeeMarkov, do you know gizmo?01:44
mitchelocc0ffee: do you mean me?01:44
c0ffeeyes :)01:44
mitchelocc0ffee: heh, yes i know it, but i want this for corporate use, having an external service tied to the client won't work for me01:45
mitcheloc(sorry to be picky)01:45
c0ffeethere is (was?) a sipphone port01:46
mitchelocwhere is that?01:46
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c0ffeeehrm minisip01:48
mitchelocfrom their webpage: "#  Maemo (Nokia 770 platform - arm and i386)01:48
mitchelocNote: The repository is not currently working (packages are out-datedd). We are trying to bring them back to life. You can find information on the build process in the repository source code Documentation."01:48
mitchelocit's a work in progress01:49
c0ffeewell, if you are so picky, you might have to do some extra work :)01:49
mitchelocindeed, well i was also going to ask if there is anywhere that we can post bounties?01:50
mitcheloci could put up $100 for an iax2 softphone01:50
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c0ffeethere's no bounty program (yet?)01:52
c0ffeebut you see, $100...01:52
c0ffeethat's not even half an hour of work01:52
mitcheloci understand, but a bounty is a collective effort as well, hopefully other people can pitch in also, if not nokia themselves :)01:53
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* lardman has had enough of battling with debian pacaking for one evening01:56
lardmanand can't spell either, night all01:56
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Markovwhy does the fs in scratchbox not match the fs outside?02:08
Markovby outside i mean, in a regular shell02:09
Markovhow can i fix this problem?02:09
HydroxideMarkov: it's a chroot environment -- that is, a self-contained sandbox02:11
HydroxideMarkov: that's intentional02:11
HydroxideMarkov: you can put some files in /scratchbox/users/<username>/home/<username> if you want them to be available within the chroot environment02:12
MarkovHydroxide: shouldn't i be able to access all the same bash commands though..?02:12
HydroxideMarkov: only what's in the chroot. but you have lots of packages available for installation to provide most functionality02:12
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MarkovHydroxide: [sbox-SDK_ARMEL: ~/MyProjects] > apt-get install emacs         E: Couldn't find package emacs02:13
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bhimagood morning.02:14
HydroxideMarkov: try apt-cache search emacs.02:14
HydroxideMarkov: probably emacs21 or similar. there are after all multiple versions of emacs in use02:14
HydroxideMarkov: or, even better, apt-cache search -n emacs02:14
MarkovHydroxide: those are both coming up with nothing02:15
bhimaCan Scratchbox R4 be used to build 770 code, or do you really need two different toolchains?02:15
c0ffeeon there's some description howto install the 2.1 roottrap on r402:17
maihemcan anybody point me to a resource for DSP programming on the n800? Just a step-by-step example would do for a start.02:17
c0ffeemitcheloc, good luck :)02:17
mitchelocit's a start right?02:18
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HydroxideMarkov: try the debian package, then02:18
HydroxideMarkov: i.e. from Debian02:18
HydroxideMarkov: or install it from gnu.org02:18
c0ffeemaihem, search the maemo-development mailing list for talk about that02:18
bhimaAre there any technical reasons that 770 binaries couldn't run on the N800? CPU architecture differences? library changes?02:23
c0ffeeyes :)02:24
c0ffeethere are library differences02:24
maihemc0ffee: I did, but only turned up 770 instructions, seems there's a little more detail in places and the discussion is ongoing, so I'll watch for more. Thanks02:24
c0ffeebasically armv5j has a jazelle extension02:25
c0ffeebut i don't know whether the 770 really has it or if yes, if any program uses it02:25
bhimaSo, would it be reasonable to ask Nokia to update the 770's OS so that code which doesn't use N800 only APIs would be binary compatible across both?02:28
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konfooi love rentacoder02:58
konfoopeople wanting full websites for real estate tracking for 100 bucks02:58
konfoowhat are they smoking02:58
konfoo(i want some)02:58
Markovhas anyone ever seen this error or know what is causing it?   /usr/include/hildon-widgets/hildon-program.h:28:24: glib-object.h: No such file or directory02:59
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Markovi get that when i put #include<hildon-widgets/hildon-program.h>02:59
mitchelockonfoo: hey sometimes they get it for that :)02:59
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Markovi see it in /usr/include/glib-2.0/glib-object.h03:01
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arnnnis there any application that can teach me foreign languages? german and japanese for example ?03:33
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konfooarnnn: babelfish :)03:38
* konfoo whistles03:38
arnnnkonfoo, I think I'll just look for some htm or pdf document contains the vocabulary list03:41
mburnsthere are many, many foreign language teaching tools in the wild.03:41
arnnnmburns, how about the one that works with maemo 3.0 ?03:41
arnnnit be nice if it can play a sound of how to pronounce some words03:41
Markovyou can always get forign language audio03:42
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Markovlots of CDs at your local library i'm sure03:43
Markovyou can rip them, and put them on your n800 :)03:43
mburnsor move to a country that primarily speaks that language.03:43
Markovi mean cd s for learning the language, not just pop music from the country... ;)03:43
mburnsless helpful suggestion, but very effective when used properly03:44
arnnnmburns, thank you for the suggestion03:49
Markovcan anyone help me with the error i get while trying to compile a "hello world" program using gcc in which I include hildon-widgets/hildon-program.h   ?? please?03:58
konfoomburns: thats actually the best suggestion of the lot04:01
konfooeven for just a month or two04:01
mburnsjust need to make a website about it and take donations for the trip :)04:01
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arnnncan n800 have japanese language ?04:59
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arnnnhow can I make the keyboard to always show itself ?05:25
* imawinar dunnos sorry05:25
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bhimaMake sure the insertion point is always ina text field? :)05:27
arnnnbhima, thanks05:29
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s-ndh-cist it normal that i cant load the kernel modules that are distributed with the rootfs image?06:41
s-ndh-ci flashed my n770 with the developer rootfs image06:42
attetlwindow size06:42
s-ndh-cbut i cant seem to load the nfs module i need for sbrsh06:42
s-ndh-cit says invalid module format06:42
imawinaroh you need a module?06:48
imawinarthat explains a lot06:48
s-ndh-ciam just wondering why this module that seems to have been installed by flashing the new rootfs does not fot to the running kernel06:50
imawinari did not try dev system06:51
imawinarwhat is the nfs modules naming?06:52
imawinarthe name06:52
s-ndh-cstrange thing is too that depmod spits an error at me cause there is only /lib/modules/2.6.16-omap1 and it searches for /lib/modules/
s-ndh-cdid i break something?06:54
imawinaron a linux box i would try depmod -a07:02
imawinardid you get errors flashing?07:02
s-ndh-cmaybe there is more to do than just flashing the rootfs maybe the kernels are somewhere else?07:03
s-ndh-cbut i made sure i installed the os2006 second release thing and then flashed over the developer rootfsimage for maem2.107:04
s-ndh-cso i asume that the kernel should be the same or am i wrong?07:04
lle2s-ndh-c: the kernel is separate from the rootfs07:06
s-ndh-clle2: but if maemo2.1 is compatible with os2006 second release07:07
s-ndh-cshouldnt they both use the same kernel?07:07
lle2dunno how the thing that you're trying is shipped but there are four parts that need to be in sync for things to work, bootloader, kernel, initfs and rootfs07:07
lle2I don't know much about maemo releases and their compatibility, I doub't different releases would use the same kernel, things change.07:09
Takhas anybody tried to load snd-pcm-oss with the stock n800 kernel?07:09
imawinarah yes s-ndh-c initfs needs to have same kernel version as modules07:11
s-ndh-cimawinar: where do i get that?07:14
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imawinarsee howto instructions flashing 77007:15
imawinari dont have URL07:15
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* bhima just got a wiimote.07:24
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* bhima wonders if there's anything useful he can do with it on his 770.07:31
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s-ndh-cbut this is only a jffs image it does only contain a new rootfs07:40
s-ndh-cwill read the wiki pages again07:40
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tigertnice -22C today08:10
tigertlooks like nice welcmome to finland -weather for quim :)08:10
bhimaIt's cold here. Down to 11C. :)08:11
* tigert is bus-ircing with the 770 today08:11
bhimatigert: popup keyboard, or bluetooth?08:11
tigertdoes the job nicely08:11
tigertthumb keyboard08:12
tigerttry using a bluetooth one on your lap - not fun08:12
bhimaI've tried.08:13
tigertthe on-screen finger keyboard i mean08:13
tigertits the best input method for a handheld i have encountered so far08:13
* bhima has used a Newton and Apple Newton Keyboard, handheld. :)08:13
bhimaas in, literally walking aorund carrying them.08:14
tigerti dont yet another device to carry08:14
tigerti can type fast enough08:15
bhimaThe mp2k's touch screen is not thumable. You really need a stylus.08:15
bhimaI was thinking of making a chording keybaord built-in to its lid.08:16
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tigertyep. this is a good compromise.08:17
tigerti am surprised with the good typing speed i get with this08:18
tigertthe N800 is even a bit better, as the hardware is faster08:19
tigertbut this trusty old 770 works great for ssh+irc as well.08:20
bhimaI prefer the look of the 770...08:20
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tigertthe N800 seems better to hold though thanks to the bump in the back08:21
tigertfor finger typing08:21
bhimaMy boss just got an N800 at compusa. They called it reconditioned, but it was probably used.08:22
tigertheh, this soon?08:22
bhimaHe wanted to move the icons to the right side of te screen. Was very disappointed to learn that you couldn't.08:22
zuhI have really dry hands and the N800 feels a bit too slippery for me, I probably should coat the back with leather of something...08:22
bhimaI'm guessing it was just a customer return.08:22
bhimazuh: The velcro on the bakc of my 770 increases its friction.08:23
tigertzuh, i took the 770 for todays commute just to feel the difference,08:23
cesmanwow $200 for a reconditioned N800!08:24
tigertand this feels more slippery than the N800 to me08:24
tigerti can feel the speed difference but this 770 is still a cute thing08:25
tigertand i think batterylife is better08:25
bhimaI'd upgrade for $200.08:25
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bhimaThough I still don't like Nokia's abandonment of any significant upgrades while the device is still on sale.08:26
tigertbhima, yeah,. that sucks with us08:26
bhimaIt makes me much more hesitant to spend a lot of money on an upgrade.08:27
tigertbut like Ari blogged, hopefully something can be done. and, it is not abandoned08:27
tigertwasnt there just a new image again?08:27
bhimaNo new web browser == abandoned.08:28
tigertjust not os2007 yet08:28
tigertits opera anyway, i dont think the new one is that different08:28
tigertbut i see your point08:28
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Takupdated flash plugin would pacify a lot of people08:29
* Jaffa doesn't care about the proprietary stuff. As a developer I want to just have to compile stuff once08:30
tigertanyone tried to just copy the file? ;)08:30
tigertof course that breaks the eula i would guess. but would it work?08:30
jacquesthe hardware may be too different for just compiling once08:31
JaffaMaybe once you've got the hacker edition as a base.08:31
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Takyeah, I definitely can't just compile stuff once either way08:31
jacquesif you compile soft-float for the 770, the 800 gets penalized08:31
jacques(for example)08:32
tigertbut we seem to be great at breaking stuff between releases. hopefully that will be fixed. yelling on ari's blog with reasonable hints and suggestions has helped a lot though so keep doing it.08:32
Jaffajacques: true. API compatibility is a must, though.08:32
jacquesyeah API compat I agree with08:32
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s-ndh-ccan someone tell me what i did wrong? in the wiki i see nothing that says i need some special kernel image to use the developer rootfs09:34
s-ndh-cbut the kernel modules in /lib/modules/ arent for the running kernel09:35
s-ndh-cwhat steps did i miss?09:35
s-ndh-ci fist flashed the complete os2006 second relese image and then flashed the developer rootfs over that09:36
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s-ndh-cas this rootfs seems to be just some more developer friendly version of the os2006 image with all the default tools striped away + usbnetworking and sbrsh support09:43
s-ndh-ci thought they would use the same kernel atleast09:43
konttoriIs the N800 camera really noisy on everybodys N800s? Or does mine have a flaw?09:44
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guerbykonttori, very noisy in low light (like VGA camera phones)09:54
konttoriSo, like noisy always indoors?09:54
wumpusyeah the camera is very noisy09:55
konttoriHmm... makes me wonder why no-one put even a half decent effort on adding low light support to the chat soft / the cam driver.09:55
kulvebecause it would have costed a lot more (I would guess)09:56
c0ffeei want infra-red support09:56
konttoriLike even just by making an average of three frames, noise will subside significantly.09:56
konttoriAnd that's probably the silliest noise cancellation I can think of.09:56
s-ndh-csomeone using the dev rootfs?10:00
s-ndh-ci must be missing something10:00
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s-ndh-cthose freaking nfs and dependand kernel modules installed by the rootfs just dont match the installed kernel10:01
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s-ndh-cit seems to be the same version but modprobe or insmod both say invalid format10:01
s-ndh-cif someone has some tipp let me know10:03
c0ffeenothing in dmesg?10:03
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konttoric0ffee: do you know if the N800 usb supports host mode?10:05
c0ffeeno idea10:08
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roopeI think it doesn't.10:26
inzIIRC on the dev mailing list there was a post saying that there is no hw support10:26
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imawinari heard someone got host mode going on the 77010:32
imawinarim psyched.  gonna have freebsd on livecd for binary security, then addon programs on usbstick, then vmware images for internet browsing on hdd10:34
imawinaroops wrong channel10:34
mruthat seems a little careless for someone so paranoid ;-)10:35
JaffaMorning, all10:37
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tigertinz, what is new in the new xterm package?10:43
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jcml_tigert: you mean the 0.13.mh19bora1 version for stock N800?10:51
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jcml_If so, it seems to add PageUp/Down (and other common control keys) buttons to the UI.  NB This was the change I noticed when I upgraded - I /may/ have picked up a new version from a differnt repo, and this feature may have been present before in the new repo's package ... :)10:55
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makuchakuHi, anyone here ordering an N800 from the APAC countries?11:23
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c0ffeewhat is apac?11:24
makuchakuc0ffee: asia pacific :)11:24
c0ffeei only knew asp11:24
c0ffeeasia south-pacific11:24
makuchakuc0ffee: oh, never mind :)11:25
c0ffeei ordered from an EMEA country \o/11:25
makuchakuc0ffee: wanted to know about apac orders because i'm from India & have orderd one through my relative in US... so was checking that if there's another way?11:26
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AD-N770good morning11:27
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bedboihi there.11:28
c0ffeemakuchaku, depends on what shop your code is attached to11:29
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makuchakuc0ffee: hmm11:33
bedboimakuchaku: i'm still having issues...11:38
inztigert, in the very newest, changing the shortcuts run-time was fixed11:40
inztigert, before that the buttons broke if you changed them, and only worked after a xterm restart11:41
maddlermorning all...11:43
kulveTak: nope. The xmame in bora repository seems to be quite old..11:46
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makuchakubedboi: oh, you in italy?11:47
maddlermakuchaku: me? maybe... ;)11:47
bedboimakuchaku: yep11:48
makuchakubedboi: so how are you getting it?11:48
maddlerbedboi: aue`! :D11:48
bedboii'm having problems with credit card.11:48
bedboimaddler: hi there :)11:48
maddlerhmmm... has anyone succeded using dummy connections on N800?11:49
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bedboimakuchaku: i phoned my bank and they told me that the web shop was trying to charge 339 eur instead of 9911:49
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shackanbedboi, so you got a code? cool12:00
bedboishackan: yep12:01
dwdMorning all. (My code still not accepted at the UK store, which is apparently a UK store problem)12:01
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maddlerdwd: try calling them...12:13
dwdmaddler: I would, but the "contact us" link doesn't give a phone number.12:14
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maddlerdwd: 808 234 714912:18
lardmanI'm coming round to the auto connect thing, but is there a way of only allowing certain programs to start an auto-connect?12:18
maddlerlardman: no...12:19
lardmanmaddler: other than not running that progrm I suppose12:19
lardmanWhat is the app which always connects? the rss reader?12:19
maddlerand another odd thing is that even manually disconnecting the aut-connectio will happen after N minutes (according to what you have configure in network settings)12:20
lardmanAh yes, it will keep connecting, confused me for a while why it was connected when I unlocked keypad/screen12:20
dwdmaddler: Ah, thanks.12:21
lardmanThe next question is how long does it stay connected once it's auto-connected?12:21
lardmanI've a funny feeling it's until the usual wlan timeout, which in my case is never12:21
lardmanNeeds to allow it to connect briefly, then disconnect no matter what after a preset time (or after being idle for x seconds), plus only allow certain apps to perform the auto-connect12:22
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maddlerlardman: right... once connected it'll wait for $timeout to expire12:24
maddlerlardman: yes... e.g.: update RSS and then disconnect...12:24
lardmanmaddler: By default the wlan connection timeout is off (infinite)12:25
maddlerlardman: exactly... that's the poing... :)12:26
lardmanI wonder if people would be more impressed (as I assume it must have an effect) with battery life if this weren't the default12:27
maddlerand I wonder if there is a way to make RSS connect-update-disconnect12:28
lardmanThat would be better handled in the auto-connect infrastructure imo12:28
lardmanso have a different timeout/idle timeout for auto-connections12:29
lardmanto that used for user-initiated connections12:29
suihkulokkiyou'll probably want to rise this autoconnect discussions at the mailing lists12:29
lardmanyes, good idea, I was just getting ideas straight (and checking I'd not missed something!)12:30
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bedboiis the source of the maemo alarm clock available?12:36
bedboii would like to know how they schedule the alarm12:37
bedboiin order to write an alarm scheduler12:37
keesjthere is a howto for that12:37
bedboiit is a pity that gpe-calendar still misses this feature12:37
bedboion the wiki?12:38
keesjdam !12:39
bedboiah, cool12:39
inzdo note, that it's only for N800/bora12:40
bedboiso it will be simple to use that in gpe-calendar12:40
inzMeh, the source for alarmd 0.4.2 is still not available12:40
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bedboithat's very cool, i was thinking about starting a similar project with dbus12:41
JaffaAnyone working on making the GPE Calendar home applet resizable?12:42
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sbaturziobedboi: have you tried to look here?
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bedboisbaturzio: thanks :)12:46
sbaturziobedboi: np12:46
|tbb|_Jaffa that would be fine12:48
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maddlerJaffa: heya man! :D13:11
Jaffa|tbb|_: oh, and it was easy too: edit share/applications/hildon-home/gpe....desktop and copy the last three lines from homeossorss....desktop in the same folder. Restart and bang - it's resizable :)13:11
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|tbb|_to bad it just wont work for the internetradio applet ;/13:18
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|tbb|_oh damn it works also, forgot the reboot13:20
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|tbb|_but it sucks, cause the applets items wont fit after resize13:22
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haphas anyone tried to install alarmd within the scratchbox ?13:27
hapit fails for me13:27
keesjmaemopeople ?13:29
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|tbb|_question: will the more battery power consumed the more applets i have visible running?13:30
keesjJaffa, the size thing is supposed to work on it2006. cosy bookmarks even defines it's own size withing the code13:30
bedboidon't think it is strictly true13:30
keesjThe question is that do you call dynamic ? do you mean it does not require a restart?13:31
lardman|tbb|_: Shouldn't really, unless they initiate auto-connect, or do polling/timers, etc.13:31
Jaffakeesj: when you go to "Edit layout", resizable applets have a draggable corner at the bottom right. On OS 2006, applets which allowed resizing in their config file did it themselves, and it wasn't dynamic (i.e. at runtime)13:32
Jaffa|tbb|_: what lardman wrote, although if they're badly behaved and don't follow the "you're not in the foreground, don't update" messages there'll be an increased load.13:32
keesjnice idea that maemo people13:36
tigertmaemo people?13:37
|tbb|_have i understand it right, the resize supposed to work on os2k6?13:37
keesjCreated On:27-Jan-2007 15:33:56 UTC13:37
jcml_tigert:  http://www.maemopeople.org13:37
tigertoh, user planet?13:37
keesjRegistrant Organization:komputika s.a.s13:37
tigertah ok, blog hosting for maemo matters13:38
jcml_Looks like it.  I was just about ask maddler to set me up a blog ... :-)13:38
|tbb|_the resize thing was a first wish from me if i owned my n77013:39
keesjI like the name and the community feeling it gives13:39
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maddlerso... register and ask :)13:41
keesjbut I have never blogged13:41
maddlerkeesj: not a good reason to not start! :D13:41
maddlerin the meantime...13:41
maddlerfeedback apreciated13:42
c0ffeeError: Unable to find site's URL to redirect to.13:42
c0ffeenice error message, maddler13:42
c0ffeesuch big letters... easy to read13:42
maddlerc0ffee: works?13:46
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|tbb|_could any1 confirm that the resize thing work on OS200613:47
jcml_maddler:  no - it stays at tinyurl13:47
Jaffa|tbb|_: OS 2006 does not support runtime resizable applets.13:47
Eloimaddler: works, and it's nice ;) But you will have some error in your template markup, because some things show displaced in konqueror.13:47
|tbb|_k :/13:47
Jaffa|tbb|_: Applets on OS 2006 can, at startup, read the size they should be from a configuration file and configure themselves appropriately; but not all applets do (GPE Calendar has hardcoded width & height)13:47
|tbb|_so how can i set the size?13:48
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maddlerEloi: damn... let me check...13:48
Jaffa|tbb|_: of what?13:49
maddlertry this...13:49
maddlerjcml_: can you resolve
jcml_It works - what am I checking?  The packages?13:49
jcml_yeah - I just registered ...13:49
|tbb|_to set the size for the applets on 77013:50
maddlerjcml_: so maybe something wrong with tinyurl...13:50
maddlerEloi: could you send me a screenshot to maddler@maemopeople.org13:51
Eloimaddler: ok13:51
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jcml_|tbb|_: oh, blast.  My 770's at home today.  It's my first day out with N800, and I didn't want to make the 770 jealous ...13:51
maddlerjcml_: drop me a mail with blogname...13:51
jcml_maddler: just doing that ...13:51
maddlertime to go buy something to eat...13:51
maddlerjcml_: good...13:51
maddlerit'll be ready ASAP :)13:51
jcml_maddler: Email sent.  TIA13:52
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abwhat's up with
Jaffa|tbb|: it depends which applet you want to resize - very few support it on OS 200613:58
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Eloimaddler: screenshot sent.14:00
|tbb|for example the iradio14:01
|tbb|also very important the rssreader14:02
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Jaffa|tbb|: Neither of those are resizable on OS 2006, AFAIK14:04
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maddlerEloi: thx14:13
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Eloimaddler: welcome :)14:22
bedboifinally i have filed the n800 order14:25
bedboii remember that there was some way to track the order14:26
jcml_bedboi: Works in the UK:
maddlerjcml_: blog name? :)14:27
bedboijcml_: thanks a lot14:27
jcml_"jcml" please14:27
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maddlerjcml_: ok14:31
maddlerthere you go! :D14:35
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* Eloi se va a comer14:36
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zbenjaminwhen i try to build the rootfs i get the erroe14:47
zbenjaminr: E: Couldn't find package codelockui-l10n-3.0-engb14:47
zbenjamin any ideas?14:47
jcml_maddler: thx!14:47
zbenjaminanyone can help me with this error when building the rootfs : E: Couldn't find package codelockui-l10n-3.0-engb . The tutorial i used:
zbenjamingoogle helped not14:50
Jaffamaddler: now that maemopeople is syndicated on planet, is it possible to hack b2evo to include the blog name of the overall Atom feed?14:51
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maddleryou mean close to the post title?14:55
maddlermaybe blogger name could be better... or maybe short blog name...14:55
maddlercomplete blog name could be too long...14:56
zbenjamininz, are you here?14:56
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hereno... here is me!14:56
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zbenjaminmaddler, *lol*14:56
zbenjaminmaddler, can you help me with my build rootfs problem?14:58
maddlerzbenjamin: I don't think so...14:58
zbenjaminno problem. It's strange but i followed the tutorial and it does not work ....14:59
Jaffamaddler: I meant in the feed title, e.g. "madraves - Iputils packages ready for testing"15:01
maddlerJaffa: yes... I was saying the same...15:03
maddlergotta give a look @ atom generator src15:03
maddlerbut I'd say yes...15:03
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Jaffamaddler: excellent15:07
inzzben, yup15:08
inzhap, how does alarmd install fail for you on scratchbox?15:09
haphmm, let me start that vmware again15:10
zbenjamininz, ever tried to create a custom rootfs for IT2006?15:12
inzzben, err, at least in a looooong while15:12
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inzzben, +not that is15:13
zbenjamini get this error: E: Couldn't find package codelockui-l10n-3.0-engb15:14
zbenjamindo i have to use maemo2.0rcsomething or maemo2.1 to build the rootfs15:14
inzeither should do15:15
zbenjamininz,  but what about the missing package?15:16
inzno idea15:16
hapSetting up alarmd (0.4.2) ...15:16
hap/etc/init.d/alarmd: line 1: whoami: command not found15:16
hapmany errors like that, cp command not found, grep command not found, etc15:16
hapStarting OSSO Alarm Daemon: alarmd/etc/init.d/alarmd: line 42: dsmetool: command not found15:17
hapno alarmd=>no osso-clock-ui15:17
zbenjamininz,  normally i would try to customize the rootfs from the fiasco image but this doesn't work. I get errors when using tar to copy the files from the jffs2 image to my harddisk (some hardlinks are not copied) and after creating a new jffs2 image its only half in size as the original image15:18
inzhap, okie, seems like it doesn't install too cleanly on scratchbox...15:19
hapinz: i was trying to install packages so i'd have the same setup than my N80015:20
inzhap, you can get it installed by altering the postinst script for example15:22
haphmm yeah i could15:23
haphas anyone actualy tried to get the list of packages from his N800 and apt-get install within the scratchbox?15:24
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inzhap, there's quite a bit of packages not available15:26
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hapso the scratchbox is just to compile and test your software, you can't have the same env ?15:28
henryykthi there, how are you all? i've just received a new N800 and encountered the following problem: application manager cannot refresh application list. the log indicates that gzip segfaults. Is this a know problem?15:29
jcml_henryykt: what repositories have you added?15:30
henryyktjcml_: none yet. only the default15:30
inzhap, not perfectly same, no15:30
inzhap, and qemu isn't quite perfect15:31
inzhap, +emulating wlan, bt, dsp and so on wouldn't be trivial15:31
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haphmm yeah you're right.15:31
hapis there more documents about the scratchbox ? I have the feeling i could just keep within the SDK_ARMEL, why should I care about the X86 ?15:32
Jaffahap: testing without the device or using qemu15:33
hapwithout using qemu ?15:33
jcml_henryykt: are you able to use the browser to access /etc/apt/sources.list ?15:33
hapah yeah right15:33
keesjreinstalling the bora sdk for the 10't time now.15:34
hapkeesj: i just kept a fresh version of the ubuntu vmware image15:34
keesjI hope they don't pay there bandwith bill :)15:34
hap"in case"15:34
henryyktjcml_: i'll try15:35
jcml_henryykt: Great. I suggest you post it here.  I've just done a refresh (with default repos+some extra ones) and it's fine ...15:36
henryyktjcml_: nothing strange there.. just deb bora user15:37
henryyktjcml_: and the non-certified one15:37
jcml_henryykt: do you have the ability to get dmesg output?15:38
jcml_henryykt: perhaps by giving the application manager the xterm .deb directly ...?15:39
henryyktjcml_: good suggestion, i'll try that before reflashing15:40
hap nice UI15:43
keesjany idea what it message means? if test -e package.lst; then ../src/xmoto -pack; fi15:44
keesjInconsistency detected by rtld.c: 288: _dl_start_final: Assertion `info->l.l_tls_modid == 0' failed!15:44
inzglibc or qemu (or both) bug15:45
keesjbugger! so I can not do much about it15:47
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kulvekeesj: I had that problem when starting scratchbox15:48
kulvefixed by setting a kernel option15:48
keesjany option ?15:48
|tbb|hey kulve15:48
kulvekeesj: CONFIG_COMPAT_VDSO=y15:48
kulve|tbb|: nope, haven't checked it..15:49
henryyktjcml_: xterm needs libncurses as dependancy and the installer says incompatible package.... think i needs red pill mode??15:49
|tbb|ah k,15:49
kulvehenryykt: dependencies don't need to be in user -section, they should be installed automatically when you install the one depending on ti15:49
henryyktkulve: the problem is that i cannot install anything from a repository. i need to install from .deb. dependencies don't seems to come automatically15:53
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keesjhenryykt, yes, with dkpg -i .deb , no deps are installed copied(I think you can force it and after that fixit)15:55
keesjWhy did it take 30+ years before I discovered screen :(15:57
henryykti'm going to refresh the device... there's no way i can install xterm :(15:57
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jcml_henryykt: yes, you need red pill mode.  I forgot that ...16:00
jcml_henryykt: can you not install libncurses manually and then ssh?16:00
jcml_henryykt: s/ssh/xterm/16:00
henryyktjcml_: i cannot find the red pill mode on n80016:01
henryyktjcml_: entering matrix als url and cancel doesn't seem to trigger the hidden feature16:01
kulvehenryykt: it works as in 77016:01
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kulvehenryykt: at least it did on my 51-6 sw version16:02
jcml_henryykt: I found that getting it even /slightly/ wrong (and then backspacing) made it not work.16:02
zbenjaminhi kulve16:02
henryyktheheh... my fault. got wrong field... i can enable it now16:02
jcml_henryykt: you put in in "Name", didn't you ...16:03
zbenjaminkulve,  do you know about building a rootfs image for IT2006 on Nokia770?16:03
henryyktjcml_: yes :(16:03
kulvezbenjamin: nope16:04
kulvezbenjamin: interesting topic, but I haven't yet got to it with my n800..16:04
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|tbb|everytime Disconnect joins the channel im getting fear ;)16:06
henryyktyes, xterm installed :)16:06
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henryyktjcml_: i don't see anything strange with dmesg. anything else i can look into?16:08
jcml_henryykt: check df16:09
zbenjaminanyone here who knows about building a rootfs?16:09
kulvezbenjamin: I know something about the topic, but nothing maemo-specific16:10
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zbenjaminkulve, one moment16:11
kulveI know, that you can take you scratchbox target, add some device nodes, fix sshd directory access rights and it should boot up. Assuming you have all neccessary apps like init there..16:12
henryyktjcml_: not much there.. i'll try enabling r&d mode and do a apt-get update16:12
suihkulokkizbenjamin: if there is any errors when using about "can't find package", and you can't find the packages from anywhere, please file bugs to bugzilla16:13
jcml_henryykt: I wouldn't worry about r&d yet - just reflash and check it works as expected first ...16:15
zbenjaminkulve, okay there are two possible ways i can go : 1. use the image file from Fiasco image. Unpack it mount the jffs2 image tar the rootfs copy it to my harddisk make changes and go the way back . But i get errors when i tar the roofs (can not stat some files) and after creating a new jffs2 image the new on e is only half in size as the old one ....16:15
kulvesuihkulokki: so, there's a script for the rootfs?16:15
suihkulokkiofcourse, it's two years out of date :)16:16
zbenjaminsuihkulokki, the sources.list points to maemo1.1 repository16:16
kulvesuihkulokki: nice, and "nice" ..16:16
zbenjaminsuihkulokki,is there a new script for IT2006?16:17
suihkulokkizbenjamin: you can edit the file...16:17
kulvezbenjamin: are you tarring it as root?16:17
zbenjaminbut i can try it again just one moment16:18
henryyktjcml: running apt-get update causes the same error message as in application catalog: Sub-process gzip recived a segmentation fault16:18
kulvezbenjamin: and have you copied the stuff with -R? I.e. copied e.g. device nodes as device nodes..16:18
kulveor with -a16:18
jcml_henryykt: and there's /nothing/ in dmesg?16:19
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jcml_henryykt: sounds like bad flash to me :(  I wonder if the flasher has any badblocks functionality in it?16:20
kulvesyslog is one place for debug output. It might tell something (even though I don't know what you are discussing about..)16:20
maddlerjcml_: welcome home! :D16:20
zbenjaminkulve, are the -R and -a arguments for tar?16:21
kulvezbenjamin: cp16:21
jcml_maddler: thx for the space :)16:21
henryyktjcml_: there's now a JFFS2 warning: jffs2_sum_write_sumnode: Not enough space for summary16:21
henryyktjcml_: i tried gzip on a file and used ctrl-c to abort16:21
henryyktjcml_: even gzip on a small file won't return16:22
jcml_henryykt: Woah</neo>.  Was that while trying to gzip /any/ file?16:22
zbenjaminkulve this is the way: 1. mount the jffs2 image to /mnt -> cd /mnt -> tar czvf ~/rootfs.tar.gz . -> cd ~ -> tar czvf rootfs.tar.gz -> modify the stuff -> create tar image -> use script to create a jffs2 image16:22
jcml_henryykt: what does "df" give you?16:23
henryyktjcml_: 99% on /mnt/initfs16:23
jcml_henryykt: same here16:23
henryyktjcml_: other ones almost empty16:24
jcml_henryykt: can you echo "wibble" > /home/user/aFile ?16:24
bergieinz: ping16:24
henryyktjcml_: yes, just tried that16:24
henryyktjcml_: gzip will hang16:25
henryyktjcml_: and segfault when i use ctrl-c16:25
kulvezbenjamin: you can try those commands to make the jff2 image..16:26
jcml_henryykt: I wonder if either the source image or badblocks on your device have screwed up the gzip portion of your busybox binary :|16:27
kulvezbenjamin: but you shouldn't get any errors with tar I think..16:27
zbenjaminkulve, thats the script i'm using16:27
kulvezbenjamin: ok16:27
zbenjamintar is running i will paste the result16:29
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zbenjaminthe stderr result16:30
henryyktjcml_: i'll try reflash. hope that helps. someone on the users list seems to have the same problem16:30
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zbenjamini get for : tar, sync, retu, tahvo the error: ./bin/<binaryname> cannot stat. : input/output error16:32
zbenjaminkulve, any ideas about that?16:33
zbenjamini'm running tar as root16:33
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covuxhi. is there a new version of mmc-unison or extrootfs for latest os2006 release?16:35
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kulvezbenjamin: not really. Doesn't sound good16:45
henryyktjcml_: well, reflashing did the trick. everything is ok now. nokia should do more about QA though.16:45
zbenjamindamn it must be possible to create my own image16:46
kulvezbenjamin: it sure is16:46
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henryyktjcml_: anyway, thanx for your help16:47
zbenjaminthe problem is i have to flash ca 80 devices with my modifications to maemo-af-desktop i made last week. but without a image..........16:47
kulvezbenjamin: either they have done something weird with the jffs image or there's some other problem..16:47
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zbenjaminkulve, the only difference is the kernel module i use for mounting the jffs2 image. I use block2mtd module because the blkmtd module is not available on my kernel it is deprecated16:49
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zbenjaminkulve, do you have the block2mtd module on you system?16:49
kulvezbenjamin: can you try that on some other computer?16:49
kulvezbenjamin: nope16:49
zbenjaminhm i can try to use our server... just one momen16:50
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nomisHmm. I am trying to install the maemo-bora devel-environment.16:56
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nomisI mistyped the "I accept" for the proprietary stuff and now "fakeroot apt-get install maemo-explicit" fails with "E: Couldn't find package maemo-explicit"16:56
zbenjaminkulve, same error on a other computer with the blkmtd module16:57
nomis(not sure if this is related)16:57
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nomiscan anyone help me there?16:57
nomisah, seems executing the script again might help.16:58
nomismpf. no.17:00
covuxare there other ways to extend root fs except mmc-unisonfs or extrootfs?17:01
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zbenjamintar kills my server.......17:02
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zbenjaminme slowly begins to hate rootfs building17:06
* zbenjamin slowly begins to hate rootfs building17:06
mgedminjtra: is that related to this: ?17:07
kulvezbenjamin: can you copy the mounted rootfs image? With cp -a ?17:08
keesjwhile we are pasting
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kulveI've done it several times without problems..17:08
kulvewith it2006 image17:09
jtramgedmin: perhaps, but not neccessarily; I found the link on reddit17:09
kulveeven though I said that I haven't..17:09
zbenjaminkulve, cp -aR * /to/some/location ?17:10
zbenjaminkulve, is the syntax okay?17:11
kulvejust -a17:12
kulve       -a, --archive17:12
kulve              same as -dpR17:12
kulveI usually put -v too even though it slows things down17:13
zbenjaminthat cannot create the /dev/* files17:14
zbenjaminand hardlinks are ignored...17:14
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zbenjaminit seems that tar is the only way to do this17:15
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kulvethat should especially copy /dev/* properly17:15
thomasvsHi.  is down ?17:15
kulveseems to be..17:16
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herzigarage.m.o as well17:21
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nomisok, so it is not just me  :)17:21
Takkulve: did you ever resolve your xmame issues?17:21
zbenjaminkulve, you are right it copys the device files but it complains about hardlinks.... they must have done something with the imge17:22
kulveTak: nope, but I haven't really had time to try..17:23
keesjJaffa, can you build xmoto for me?17:23
Takwhat rom(s) did you try?17:23
kulvee.g. bubble bobble (
kulvefrom couple of places17:23
Takok, I'll see if there's an issue17:24
kulve68705.bin    NOT FOUND17:24
keesjor anybody else who has mud installed17:24
kulvethat + two other17:24
Takdo you know if the same roms run on xmame on a pc?17:24
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kulvein fact I have had same kind of troubles before, when I was trying on linux desktop..17:25
keesjwith X11 threre is the xrand extension17:26
kulveis the problem in roms? do I have too old version of xmame? Should I have some other rom (zip) files there too..17:26
Takit's likely the roms17:27
TakI've had the same issues, but they're not limited to the maemo builds of xmame17:27
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inzkeesj, I can try building17:33
keesjthat would be great!17:34
inzgrr, giving me 50317:37
zbenjamininz, same for me17:37
inzCan't fetch readline to build lua...17:37
keesjbugger !17:38
zbenjamincan i use dpkg -l output as input for my makerootimage script?17:38
||cwyou guys seen this yet?
maddler||cw: yep...17:40
inzzbenjamin, I guess it would be possible with some sed magic17:41
zbenjamininz, so there should be all packages i need in this output....17:43
inzzbenjamin, you could try dpkg-repack to create them, all of them aren't available normally17:43
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keesjI can not get the sdk setup to work , I just installed sb using the installer script  and did not create a target , I expected that the maemo-sdk would create one but the script stops because it thinks I have setup target (that is my interpretation)
kulvezbenjamin: what's the error message about the hardlinks?17:54
herzizbenjamin: don't use dpkg -l, use dpkg --get-selections17:54
pashiinz: is back online. There was some maintenance break17:54
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bergieinz: can you join #geoclue ? I want to check some details about Maemo Blogger geo support17:59
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zbenjaminkulve, the same input output error17:59
zbenjaminmaybe i can tar / on the device ????18:00
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kulvezbenjamin: you can try..18:01
kulvezbenjamin: I'm not sure how good the busybox's tar is there..18:02
kulvezbenjamin: but that's not actually the same thing, since it's booted alread, etc..18:02
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zbenjaminkulve, do i have to take care of some folders that should not be in rootfs?18:08
zbenjaminkulve, why is the root user chrooted to initfs?18:10
kulveI don't have much advices if you are doing it inside the device..18:10
nomis   <--- n800-Version18:10
kulvezbenjamin: sounds weird..18:10
kulvezbenjamin: I think you should try to find a way to copy the hardlinks..18:11
kulvebut I'm off now18:11
* nomis finally has to get his act together to put this on Garage.18:11
keesjnomis, join mud!18:12
nomiskeesj: mud?18:12
covuxnomis: could you build new version of mmc-unionfs for n770 please? :)18:13
Veggenkeesj: When's the batch of mud-packages gonna be in extra, btw?18:13
Veggen<---impatient. I want new things to play with. Now ;-)18:14
keesjgood question I don't know , I also wonder when mud is gonna be in mud18:14
Jaffakeesj: I'm not sure it was intended for random new projects, but fair enough :-)18:14
Jaffapanelclock *may* well be better off as a garage project, though: managing the entire project as a single patch file could be Unfun.18:14
nomiskeesj: hmm, since this is a nXY0-specific package it would make sense to make an official garage-project from it. Shouldn't it end up in a feed then anyway?18:14
* Jaffa wishes ferenc would get back to him about his extras upload stuff failing so stuff could be released from mud18:14
zbenjaminkulve, a other wired thing is that the other links to busybox are okay to copy but not the tar link18:15
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* mgedmin wants a well-mainained panelclock for both n770 and n800, downloadable from the extras repository18:15
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nomismgedmin: while I cannot guarantee for the "well-maintained", I'll definitely try to put it onto a reasonable repository.18:18
nomisI wonder if I should dare to remove the timezone-hacks.18:18
nomisand I have to think of something about the new dark theme. The black digits on black background kind of suck.18:19
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mgedminit would be best if panelclock autodetected the darkness of the background and automatically chose between black or white text18:20
mgedminor maybe extract some standard colour from the gtk theme and use it?18:20
mgedminthe one that the title bar uses, for example18:21
Takwhy not use the gtk theme's fg and bg colors?18:21
nomismgedmin: any idea which one?18:22
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nomissomeone please beat up the descision makers who decided to remove the cover.18:24
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nomisThe soft bag does not the device from waking up if anything somehow presses against the touchscreen.18:24
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nomisand if I enable auto-lock of touchscreen and keys the device tends to lock itself when it is left open but unattended on the side for a minute.18:25
lardmannomis: You need to lock the screen first18:25
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nomislardman: that sucks.18:26
nomisI really don't get the reasoning behind this descision.18:26
lardmannomis: It's okay, just a quick 2-key press18:26
nomislardman: compared to just sliding on the cover this is an annoyance.18:27
lardmanyou'll get used to it18:27
nomisand I have to unlock it again when I want to use it. It was so nice to get the 770 out of its cover and it lights up and is instantly ready to use.18:27
nomisfeels more "always on" to me.18:28
keesjyes , a simple switch would be great,18:32
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nomisIt should just notice if it is put away in its bag.18:34
Takooo, maybe you could write a webcam app18:35
maddlerhmmm... anyone aware of a "screen always on" patch/hack?18:35
maddlerI'd like to use my N800 as an external console...18:35
jcml_maddler: Get online, start playing a BBC Real stream.  Stop it, while staying online.  50% of the time, my screen doesn't then turn off until I go offline (even when locked) ...18:37
Takyou could use gconf to set /system/osso/dsm/display/display_blank_timeout to 0 ...18:38
Takbarring that, you could write a little app that calls osso_display_blanking_pause every 59s18:39
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* keesj finally found something useful to do with the camera, use is a switch!18:42
keesjlike the teletubbies "and wave bye bye"18:42
wumpusyou mean like gesture recognition?18:43
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Takif image brightness changes more than e.g. 90% in 1s, enter standby18:47
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rofltoshdoes anybody know where the N800 is available retail?18:50
rofltoshbesides CompUSA that is18:50
koen| -> buy now18:50
rofltoshbest buy, circuit city, etc?18:50
maddlerjcml_: hehehe...18:50
rofltoshno credit card :(18:50
bhimaI haven't heard of any other place.18:50
bhimaprepaid credit card? Or open a bank account and get a debit card?18:51
rofltoshwell i'm 1718:51
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rofltosh16 actually... i turn 17 tomorrow18:52
rofltoshi called them up and they don't accept money order, cash, whatever18:52
Takwtf, compusa doesn't accept cash?18:52
rofltoshno, nokia18:52
dwdrofltosh: Use Parents(tm). That's an excellent payment method.18:52
rofltoshmy nearest copmUSA is ~170 miles away18:52
rofltoshteh parents are like "you're old enough to handle your own finances, so nope"18:53
rofltoshalready tried that18:53
tzzrofltosh: where are you?18:53
rofltoshso wait, bhima... prepaid credit card?18:53
Takyou can't pay them to purchase on CC?18:53
rofltoshabout 30 miles south of syracuse NY18:53
rofltoshno, tak18:53
rofltoshthey're oblivitards18:53
bhimarofltosh: Point out to them that the law doesn't permit you to be responsible.18:53
rofltoshas i did.18:54
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rofltoshi'm like "well seeing as i can't legally own a credit card or buy anything on credit, i can't be fully responsible"18:54
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tzzrofltosh: sorry I can't help you, I'm in Boston...18:54
rofltoshheh, no worries18:54
rofltoshbhima, what do you mean by prepaid credit card?18:55
rofltoshis that something a minor could get?18:55
glassssa cc that you pay before18:55
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glassssin practice you could get them easily in someone elses name etc etc...18:55
Tak#maemo: the channel that encourages credit card fraud :-P18:55
rofltoshhm... visa gift card18:56
rofltoshworks like a debit card18:56
rofltoshbrb, phone call to make18:57
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tzzrofltosh: so why don't you open a bank account?  They usually come with a debit card.  That was my first one many years ago...19:03
rofltoshtzz, i have a savings account... no debit card though19:03
rofltoshi would need to open a checking account, for which adulthood is a prerequisite19:03
rofltoshi think if i can find a local place that sells visa gift cards, that'll work out okay19:03
Takactually I got my first checking acct at 1419:04
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Takalthough I think my parents had to sign something19:04
Pioyeah i think i had a checking account when i was 1519:04
tzzrofltosh: really?  I'm surprised (and over 30, so what do I know...)19:04
Pioi dont remember having to get parents signature even19:04
Piojust paychecks heh19:04
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||cwme too, with a card19:04
keesjrofltosh,  apt-get dist-upgrade parents. what kind of help are you after?19:05
maddlerI'm amazed... here in .it is *so* easy to get a prepayd CC19:05
rofltoshwell i just want to somehow convert cash in my savings account into liquid currency that the nokia store will accept19:06
rofltoshi s'pose this isn't the best place to ask for ideas, but eh19:06
keesjso you want to send me money so I can buy one?19:07
||cwif you've got that much in savings, a checking account really should be no probelm.19:07
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rofltoshwell i won't have *that* much in savings after i buy said N80019:07
||cwcertainly you can't get a credit card without a co-signer, but a check card is not credit19:07
rofltoshas far as i know, a checking account has a minimum balance of ~$500 to avoid fees19:08
Takno, nearly ever bank offers a no-minimum-balance account19:08
||cwdo you have a job?19:09
Tak(in the US)19:09
rofltoshyep... burger king19:09
||cwdo they offer direct deposite?19:09
rofltoshtak, maybe my parents are feeding me misinformation then19:09
rofltoshi don't know ||cw, i could ask19:09
||cwmost banks will give you free checking if you setup direct deposit19:09
||cwif not outright19:10
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rofltoshhm, i'll look into it19:10
rofltoshooh... apparently our local bank does according to google19:10
||cwsome even give you free checks, forever19:11
rofltoshwell i have little use for checks at this point :] ...really i'm mostly saving for college19:12
rofltoshan N800 is the only really major thing i see myself needing to buy in the near future19:12
rofltoshi'm gonna go walk down to the bank... thanks for all the help guys :]19:13
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rofltoshsorry to derail whatever topic you had before i came here19:13
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Taktopic?  we don't need no stinking topic!19:13
c0ffeetaktaktak :)19:14
Tak7 more!  you can do it!19:15
c0ffee/alias repeat  script exec Irssi::active_win()->command("say" . " $1-" x $0)19:16
s-ndh-cis the re someway to more power out of the headphone jack?19:18
s-ndh-cits just not loud enough19:19
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maddlerok... TTL reached here...19:24
maddlersee you later dudes...19:24
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nomismgedmin: the text[GTK_STATE_NORMAL] style is not set to a reasonable value for the items in the status bar  :-/19:31
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keesjdid you booth change the main volume and the media player volume.?19:37
lardmanCool, N800 can be seen and receive files from phones. I'll be able to share in all the rubbish my office mates bluetooth around at coffee time :)19:38
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lardmanshame the bt icon on the status bar switches off when you turn bt off (then you have to dig back through the control panel to switch back on again)19:39
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mitchelocdid everyone see this?
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henryykthi, on the 770. I can create a .fonts directory and drop in new fonts. on the n800, this doesn't seem to work anymore. anyone notice this also?19:50
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mgedminhenryykt: the ~/.fonts/ feature is enabled in /etc/fonts/fonts.conf19:51
mgedmina line that says '<dir>~/.fonts</dir>'19:52
mgedminyou could check what fonts.conf says on your N80019:52
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zuhor fc-list in the xterm19:55
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tomvhi. is here a good place to ask a scratchbox question? I'm trying to install scratchbox and the maemo SDK via the scripts. unfortunately, apt seems unable to resolve any DNS names even though resolv.conf is correctly configured. is there something smarter to do than add every hostname I need to /etc/hosts? (it seems that libnss-mdns or somesuch is missing...)19:56
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rofltoshwoot... gonna get a checking account with debit card19:59
kulvetomv: nameserver
kulvethat's what my resolv.conf says and it seems to be working ok20:00
mgedmintomv: which /etc/resolv.conf?  the one in the host system, or the one in the scratchbox target chroot?20:01
henryyktmgedmin: hmm... that line is there. i'm checking on 770 for any difference..20:02
inztomv, try sb-conf in -e20:02
tomvkulve,mgedmin: both inside the chroot and outside the resolv.conf is pointing to (after giving up on using the DNS in my net).20:02
inzthen it won't help20:02
tomvI've straced ssh to find that it looks for libnss-mdns but can't find it...20:03
mgedmintomv: and do you have a DNS server running on your machine?20:03
tomvmgedmin: yup. works outside scratchbox (dig foo @localhost).20:03
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tomvand by the speed of it, it's not a DNS timeout...20:04
mgedminwhat's /etc/nssswitch.conf look like inside scratchbox?20:04
mgedminthe 'hosts:' line only20:04
kulvetomv: does "host" work outside?20:04
mgedminis interesting20:04
tomvmgedmin: hosts:          files mdns4_minimal [NOTFOUND=return] dns mdns420:05
mgedminwell then20:05
tomvthat's a striking similarity with my host.20:05
mgedminI wonder how it got to be that way20:05
mgedminprobably copied from the host system20:05
tomvkulve: yup. I think mgedmin is on the right track. thanks.20:06
mgedminit means "if the name cannot be resolved from /etc/hosts and mdns returns "does not exist", don't even bother with DNS"20:06
mgedminI htink20:06
mgedminchange it to the standard "host: files dns"20:06
tomvmgedmin: so what's a more successful line...20:06
tomvah. thanks.20:06
mgedminand maybe report a bug to scratchbox maintainers that having avahi/libnss-mdns/whatever installed breaks scratchbox's target configuration20:06
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tomvsure, that's with the bugzilla at
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* mgedmin actually has no idea20:10
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tomvwhat's the place to report bugs with the maemo_* btw? I think the check for VDSO support (whatever that might be) didn't work as well as it should.20:12
mgedminwasn't there a contact email at the top of that script?20:13
c0ffeedso is dynamic shared object20:14
kaatistomv, iirc maemo bugzilla has a category for installer20:16
mgedminand vdso is a virtual dynamic shared object:
mgedminin short, it is a mechanism for the kernel to tell the system library how to make system calls fast20:17
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tomvafter testing: the name service problem is solved. thanks again, I've filed a scratchbox bug at .20:30
* rev just ordered his N800!20:32
* ||cw isn't ordering one onless someone gives him a lot for his 77020:34
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MDKxan: ping20:42
keesjinz did you find readline?20:42
xanMDK, pong20:42
MDKxan: where is the review you mentioned during our toilet chit-chat?20:43
MDKups. That sounded bad.20:43
xanMDK, heh.... yeah20:44
xanMDK, don't remember, let me check20:44
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xanMDK, that's where he talks about reliability20:46
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tkoMDK, too much information20:56
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daveaiteldoes anyone here work at Nokia by any chance?21:03
daveaitelI need to talk to someone regarding resellers and whatnot21:03
MDKdaveaitel: yes, people here work at nokia. But definitelly not marketing/sales people.21:05
kulveI'm pretty sure the developers .. yes ..21:05
daveaitelyeah, but it's likely they could put me in touch with like an "enterprise sales"21:06
daveaitelrather than, say, the guy you talk to when you want just one21:06
feruloxan: dude, I found in verokokauppa an old friend of mine from Spain, 6 years without seeing him!21:07
tkodaveaitel, nokia people here (except for carlos) are ones committing stuff to svn.. do you think those will know about resellers? :)21:07
daveaitelPossibly. :>21:07
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ferulohe has been living in finland for 2 years21:07
daveaitelWas worth a shot before trying the Nokia phone bank21:07
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tkodaveaitel, IIRC the point of contact for enterprise sales or whatnot is mentioned in somewhere21:07
daveaitelwe're planning on ordering quite a few :>21:07
daveaitelI'll go call them then :>21:07
Takso the best compile options for n800 are -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -mcpu=arm1136j-s ?21:09
tkoTak, depends21:10
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tkoTak, apparently if you end up having codepaths that jump between thumb and vfp code a lot, the end result is significantly slower21:11
Takso trial and error is the best bet21:12
tkowe switched gtk and pango to use vfp which increased boot time and memory consumption about 5s and 5Mb .. reverted it21:12
Takheh, eek21:12
MDKtko: seriously?21:13
MDKtko: are you sure we didn't do something else in the mean time?21:13
tkoMDK, NB#5084721:13
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shapr||cw: Hey, you asked for an action shot...
nelsonrofltosh: there's a CompUSA in the Carousel Mall.21:16
nelsonHas anybody else with US discount code received their order?   My order seems to have gone through, but the "Order Status" field on the tracking page is empty.21:18
nelsonThat's not a good sign.21:18
konfoonelson same here21:18
konfooi got charged the $125.. but there is no order tracking21:18
thomasvsI am trying to find info on the site on how I can enable more repositories for my new n800, but I am not finding that info21:20
thomasvsit's also not in the manual, it just has a very short section on the application manager21:20
thomasvswhat am I missing ?21:20
nelsonthomasvs: Open the Application Mangler21:20
thomasvsnelson: right, there I can add repo's, but how do I know what repo's to add ?21:21
nelsonAhhhh, I see.  I've been adding the repo's for the applications I need.21:21
nelsonBut I agree with you that Nokia should have just one feed.21:21
nelson(not that you were saying that)21:22
thomasvsnelson: ok, so you go look for an application you want and then figure out hwat repo it is in and then add it ?21:22
thomasvsnelson: heh, well, still just figuring out how to get started21:22
nelsonYep, e.g. maemo-mapper needs two repos.21:22
thomasvsfor example, how to install ssh on it21:22
myren_i cant fathom why vfp would hurt boot time....21:22
myren_gtk boot doesnt strike me as very floating point intensive21:22
thomasvsand I guess I expected some document on the maemo site that would tell me, maybe I am looking in the wrong place21:22
myren_i'd think it'd be basically inconsequential21:23
nelsonkonfoo: Yep, I got charged the $125 also.21:23
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nelsonkoen|edge_: so, y'know what I'd like to see?  The OpenMoko paired with the Nokia 770.   Happy Linux Goodness all around!!21:25
* Tak mumbles about not having a gsm provider21:27
tkomyren_, it's not. but switching between thumb and vfp was effective trashing instruction cache (?, i-cache)21:27
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myren_tko: so the vfp can only be accessed through the native arm instruction set?21:29
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ssvbtko: is gtk stuff built using thumb now?21:30
tkomyren_, how else?21:31
thomasvsnelson: so I see an application list at but it does not mention repositories at all21:31
tkossvb, yes, it's been using thumb for a long time .. there was only one gtk version which ever had vfp enabled21:32
myren_tko, native instruction set as compared to thumb.  i dont really know thumb, nor why thumb wouldnt be extensible to permit vfp usage21:32
myren_what about compiling the entire OS in arm instead of thumb?  has anyone tried it?21:33
myren_kinda retarded that that would be required to make use of the vfp21:34
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tkomyren_, afaik thumb is just a different instruction set. enabling vfp uses still the same instructions, but the size of an instruction is larger. and using two instruction sets is trashing the cache21:34
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tkoI'm sure there's a page somewhere (wikipedia) which can explain it much more clearly21:35
ssvbmyren_: thumb is a limited subset of instructions which are encoded in 16-bits each instead 32-bits for normal arm, it helps to reduce code size, but it also reduces performance somewhat as you generally need more instructions to do the same job21:35
inzkeesj, now I did21:35
myren_ok, i was thinking thumb was an alternate instruction set.21:35
myren_as in, totally different21:36
lle2tko: there are limitations to from which mode certain instructions are available21:36
myren_its unfortuante the i-cache doesnt just pad the 16bit instruction words to 32bit.  certainly instruction cache bandwidth isnt a problem21:37
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myren_so as to permit not-god-awful context changes into and out of thumb21:37
* myren_ is dont talking out of his ass21:38
ssvbmyren_: you can read ARM architecture reference manual for more details, need a link?21:38
myren_ssvb: i have it somewhere on this laptop.  :)  just under-utilized.21:38
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ssvbtko: did you try buiding gtk without thumb? what is the difference in code size and performance?21:39
ssvbtko: at least for n800 ram size should not be such a big issue as for 77021:40
lle2tko: so depending what you're doing, you may end up having to switch out of thumb and certainly it will have an influence on performance, I wouldn't think that mixing 16 & 32 bit instructions would force a flush on the cache?21:41
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tkossvb, can't recall. the size difference was noticeable, performance impact negligible21:42
lle2that would be sad even for arm standards21:42
tkolle2, that would be sad indeed.. so it must be true :-P21:42
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tkolle2, naw, I got the impression using two different instructions sets just wastes the icache21:42
Takmeh, I hope the toolchain in the newer scratchbox is less fragile21:42
tkolle2, gtk+pango being vfp and jumping in and out of glib which is thumb.. see NB#5084721:43
lle2tko: ok, yeah, thumb and vfp might not be brilliant. why is it thumb anyway?21:44
tkolle2, footprint reduction21:44
lle2tko: oh great...21:44
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lle2tko: how much was a "noticeable footprint reduction"?21:45
myren_somewhere between 50% and 0% improvement.  =]21:46
tkohmm, there were measurements somewhere which included performance as well21:46
lle2myren_: it could be negative as well ;)21:46
tko"size of decreased from 2.9M to 2.3M"21:47
* rofltosh has a checking account with debit card now... thanks everyone :]21:47
rofltoshN800 shall be purchased within a week21:47
myren_that must've been some pretty complex code.21:47
tkogtk complex? never :-P21:48
lle2tko: ok, not bad. I just wonder if it really was necessary.21:48
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myren_compiling without thumb, how hard would that be?21:48
lle2depends how screwed up the debian packaging is21:49
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tkomyren_, get the source package and make sure DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS environment variable does *not* include 'thumb'21:49
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myren_the source tree is retrieved through debian source packages?  really?  thats an interesting distribution choice.21:50
tkoall thumb enabled packages use the ifeq findstring DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS, thumb thingie21:51
tkoyou can do a checkout if you like21:51
myren_pardon my newbishness.  i still havent placed my order, but i really have no excuse for not downloading and playing around with scratchbox yet.21:51
tkoapt-get source is usually just more stable choice, and you're very likely to get the same version you're currently running effortlessly21:52
Andy80one quick question... is it possible to connect to WPA protected access point with Nokia 770 ?21:54
kulveshould be21:55
myren_i'm trying to think of another commercial project in existance that uses dpkg.21:55
myren_way to go nokia.21:55
glasssswpa-psk works like a charm anyhow21:55
Andy80because, I've just ordered a Fonera21:55
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Andy80and it only works with WPA21:55
Andy80no wep at all :(21:55
kulvewep shouldn't be used anyway..21:55
Andy80thanks :)21:56
rofltoshwait, does the N800 support WEP22:00
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rofltoshnot that i use it for my own network, but like at friends' houses22:00
kulverofltosh: uep22:01
rofltoshpretty neat22:01
thomasvshm, is there a problem with the maemo repository ?22:01
thomasvsevery download fails22:01
kulveI managed to download a file, but slowly22:02
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tkothomasvs, earlier today the whole site was timing out22:03
bilboedHi all. I'm able to pair my phone with my n800, but unable to see the files on it or connect to the internet via the phone's gprs. Is there a way to debug that ?22:03
MDKbilboed: check your phone on
bilboedMDK, it wasn't on it for the n77022:05
bilboedMDK, let me check22:05
bilboedare there tools to debug/use the bluetooth stack ?22:05
kulvemaybe something is printed on syslog? That's not on the device by default though..22:05
suihkulokkibilboed: it's normal bluez..22:06
keesjbilboed, perhaps you need to authorize the n800 on your phone22:07
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bilboedkeesj, already done22:08
bilboedkeesj, i entered the 4-digit pairing code, and authorized the n800 on my phone22:09
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keesjJaffa, I am trying to add readline as dependency in mud , do you know it this is possible?22:26
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thomasvswhere is word completion data stored, and can I delete words from it ?22:30
bilboedthomasvs, lol :)22:30
Takyes, my completion db is utterly filled with obscenity22:31
thomasvsbilboed: don't want people knowing my pwd's :)22:31
maddlerthomasvs: sudo rm -rf /22:31
bilboedthomasvs, I think passwords don't get recorded22:31
thomasvsbilboed: I'm pretty sure they do22:31
keesjyes they are22:31
keesjin xterm they do22:32
bilboedaah, yes, in xterm22:32
thomasvsI get my password even in my browser now22:32
bilboednot those in password UI entries22:32
keesjbut it does not remember capitals22:32
thomasvssheesh, my ssh connection to it is unstable to the point of useless22:32
thomasvsdoes it use dasher for completion perhaps ?22:33
myren_ooohhh low blow22:33
myren_your dasher crack.  ;)22:34
thomasvsoh, didn't know there was an "issue" with dasher ?22:34
thomasvsit's the only thing I know that does completion, so maybe I thought it was using that22:34
kulvebut not easily per word22:35
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idanI just flashed my 770 with scirocco23:19
idanand I've run into a problem when apt-getting, google isn't helping :( :23:20
idanosso-app-killer: Depends: osso-bttools but it is not going to be installed23:20
idanE: Error, pkgProblemResolver::Resolve generated breaks, this may be caused by held packages.23:20
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idandoes anybody know about this?23:22
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keesjI don't23:26
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idangrr :(23:28
Takwhat do you have in your sources.list ?23:29
tzzidab: did you try to install osso-bttools23:30
idanTak: pastebinning in a second, basically the 2 original ones and + extras23:30
Taksounds right then23:31
idantzz: tried apt-get -f --reinstall install osso-app-killer osso-bttools23:31
idanproblem persists23:31
tzzidan: can you try just bttools?23:31
idantzz: sure, one sec23:32
kenderhey, If there is a project in maemo garage, but it seems abandoned (the only one developer doesn't answer and no files nor anything else is in the project page), what can be done? my project is just the same, so... better not to create a new one with different name23:33
idanTak: my sources.list is at
tzzkender: you could talk to the garage admins23:34
keesjkender, if you know the answer let me know23:34
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kenderkeesj, :)23:34
kendertzz, ok, I'll do23:34
idantzz: reinstall works as expected, don't know if this is related but apt-get complains about not finding dpkg-preconfigure23:34
idantrying to apt-get something else now to see if it fixed things...23:35
kenderthe project is, if anyone knows something about the developer...23:35
idannope :(23:35
Takadd the mistral repos for maemo as well?23:35
tzzidan: sorry, no idea what's wrong then23:35
idanTak: in parallel to scirocco or instead of?23:36
etrunkoidan: are you trying a dist-upgrade or something like that?23:36
idanetrunko: apt-get install gzip23:36
idanor anything els23:36
idanI used to have mistral, but I just installed the latest firmware image23:37
idanit worked long enough for me to install ssh and osso-xterm23:37
idan(via application manager / red-pill mode)23:37
etrunkoidan: i see23:37
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etrunkoit doesn't work here also23:37
idanany clues, detectives?23:37
idanoy :(23:37
idanso it is not something I am doing wrong, it's a bug?23:38
kenderkeesj, yours?23:38
etrunkoidan: but gzip is provided by another package23:38
idangood to know, but vncviewer is not in busybox :)23:39
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idanok, if I only install vncviewer it doesn't complain about the osso thing23:40
idandidn't know that busybox had that, maybe it's only a problem with those packages?23:40
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idanTak: is it safe to have both mistral and scirocco repos in parallel?23:44
idanI think there are some things in mistral that are not in scirocco repos yet, apparently23:44
Takyeah, I think so too23:45
idanyou think it is safe or no? :)23:45
TakI have them both on mine23:45
Takhowever disclaimer etc23:45
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idanok all, thanks for the assistance23:52
idanI think I'm good from here for a while, at least ;)23:53
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kkitohello, mi n800 doesnt boot :( i press de power up button, and then appears the nokia logo for 2 seconds and suddently shut down.23:56
kkitoif someone knows how to solve it...23:56
||cwdead battery?23:57
Stregkkito: I took my N800 for service today, because it hang on the blue nokia logo :(23:57
kenderkkito, reflashing it?23:57
kkitokender, reflashing the n800 can solve the problem?23:58
kkitoStreg, did you try to flash the device?23:59
kkitokender, but i cannot boot up the system23:59
kenderyou can try, the guarraty allow you to do that23:59
kenderkkito, don't worry23:59
Stregkkito: I was unable to boot to the flashing mode, so no23:59
kenderyou don't need to boot23:59
kkitoHow to boot to the flashing mode?23:59

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