| minra | i wanted to paste poznac but in opera dragging the stylus over text moves the window | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| spect | Yeah, it's quite annoying sometimes... | 00:01 |
| spect | I'm thinking about writing 'Guitarist's toolbox' for 770... | 00:01 |
| spect | And I didn't test canola yet... time to do it now :P | 00:03 |
| rev | people are pumped about this canola thing | 00:05 |
| * rev is working on his newton-inspired PDA environment for the 770 | 00:05 | |
| arj | what the deal with it not being open source? :( | 00:05 |
| rev | it isn't? that's a bummer... | 00:05 |
| spect | Yeah, so I want to check what is this rumour about :) | 00:06 |
| rev | yesterday was the first i'd heard of canola, so forgive me on that one | 00:06 |
| arj | np :) | 00:06 |
| spect | rev: more details about this env? :) | 00:07 |
| arj | you can read it in their feature request section, regarding slimserver support | 00:07 |
| arj | I was to hack on it but ... well without the source it's quite hard | 00:07 |
| rev | spect: it's sort of a niche thing... it's based on Squeak Smalltalk. a PDA environment portable to pretty much any and all desktop/tablet OSes, in addition to Linux (X11, /dev/fb, DirectFB, Qtopia) and WinCE-based OSes | 00:08 |
| Jaffa | rev: newton-inspired env sounds interesting. | 00:08 |
| rev | here are a couple old screenshots | 00:08 |
| rev | http://www.d.umn.edu/~areichow/squeak/dynapad/ | 00:08 |
| rev | it's called dynapad. i'd worked on it steadily for a few years, from 2000-2003, and had made a lot of progress. then some stuff happened, and i'm just getting back into it now. | 00:09 |
| rev | it's got a small suite of apps written for it specifically, as well as various apps from Squeak ported to running on a PDA-sized screen | 00:09 |
| rev | the Newton-inspired part is not so much how it looks or anything but more so that a) it's all written in an dynamic, reflective, and completely OO language b) it uses an object database for core storage [though it can do regular files as well] and c) is just as hackable as the newton OS | 00:10 |
| rev | and by "hackable" i mean in a way that you can just sit down and hack the innards of the device's software right then and there, without having the overhead of needing to recompile C code on a desktop | 00:11 |
| rev | which is the case with the Linux, Palm OS and WinCE systems | 00:11 |
| rev | i know there are ports of gcc to CE and Linux/PDA, but there's no way you can recompile and reinstall the entire maemo system all on a stock n770 itself | 00:12 |
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| rev | whereas with Dynapad, the Newton OS and Squeak Smalltalk in general, you can make changes to even the most core part of the system, without having to use a desktop | 00:12 |
| rev | like i said it's niche- it's something a lot of hardcore linux types wouldn't want to use. most hardcore linux c/c++ types don't like Smalltalk. that's their perogative. but for me, it gives me the power and extensibility of something like emacs, but with a real windowing environment and a much less cryptic way of doing things | 00:14 |
| spect | Interesting... but seems like a lot of work... | 00:14 |
| myren | the poitn is that its NOT a lot of work | 00:15 |
| myren | its just scripting | 00:15 |
| * rev used to use it as his windowing system on his desktop; running Squeak on framebuffer 0 and links2 w/ graphics support on fb2. no need for X11 | 00:15 | |
| rev | myren is almost correct | 00:15 |
| myren | links2 /w graphics? holy god. | 00:15 |
| myren | way to go framebuffers | 00:15 |
| rev | the point is indeed that it wasn't all that much work- i'm building on a system that already exists, squeak smalltalk | 00:15 |
| rev | so it's not like i implemented the windowing system or GUI toolkit or language or core libraries | 00:15 |
| rev | that's all there | 00:15 |
| rev | it isn't scripting, imho | 00:16 |
| myren | and you can modify it live | 00:16 |
| rev | but what is or isn't scripting depends on the programmer | 00:16 |
| rev | some people think anything that runs on a bytecode VM is scripting, some not | 00:16 |
| rev | actually, links2 w/ graphics isn't that bad | 00:16 |
| myren | whoo java scripting? | 00:16 |
| rev | you can run it within X11 too | 00:16 |
| myren | how does it draw in X? | 00:16 |
| rev | i prefer it to dillo anyday | 00:16 |
| rev | what do you mean? | 00:17 |
| myren | its a pity dillo never made the fltk transition they were planning | 00:17 |
| rev | like, what toolkit does it use? | 00:17 |
| myren | that wouldve been nice | 00:17 |
| myren | yeah i guess. does it still run inside an xterm? | 00:17 |
| myren | or urxvt term | 00:17 |
| rev | that's the thing | 00:17 |
| rev | you can run regular links/links2 in an xterm | 00:17 |
| myren | but no graphics | 00:17 |
| rev | but running links2 w/ graphics support compiled in runs in a seperate X11 window | 00:17 |
| * myren nods | 00:18 | |
| rev | i think it just uses base Xlib calls | 00:18 |
| myren | figures | 00:18 |
| rev | it doesn't use gtk+, tk, motif whatever | 00:18 |
| myren | i wish terms exposed more to the clients | 00:18 |
| myren | to their apps | 00:18 |
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| myren | such taht links2 could just draw to/on top of the appropraite places inside the term | 00:18 |
| rev | well | 00:18 |
| myren | or your app could generate popup menus within the xterm | 00:18 |
| rev | i think they implemented a trick like that | 00:18 |
| myren | "within" | 00:18 |
| rev | at one point | 00:18 |
| myren | but it was hacky insnae and only kidna sorta worked. ;) | 00:19 |
| myren | that would be my wager | 00:19 |
| rev | not quite i guess... but i think they used a trick with bitmaps shoehorned into kanji characters | 00:19 |
| rev | this was a long time ago i read this | 00:20 |
| Jaffa | That was w3m IIRC | 00:20 |
| rev | Jaffa: ah ok, i wasn't sure if it was links- thanks | 00:20 |
| rev | but i thought that was a clever hack | 00:20 |
| Jaffa | Dodgy as hell, but clever. | 00:20 |
| rev | yeah | 00:20 |
| rev | can't imagine it was very fast | 00:20 |
| rev | myren: just fyi, this is what links2 w/ graphics looks like- http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/ekarttun/sc/Merri/links2-gui.png | 00:21 |
| rev | myren: as you can see, it doesn't use any widgets, as far as i can tell, from any toolkit | 00:21 |
| minra | wow i havent heard of sqeak since the early 90s, from my OO geek friends. | 00:21 |
| myren | holllly god | 00:21 |
| myren | OO will RULE YOU | 00:21 |
| myren | WE WILL RISE AGAIN | 00:21 |
| rev | minra: well, squeak is still very much alive, a pretty active community | 00:21 |
| * rev loves smalltalk | 00:21 | |
| rev | but it's a rare sentiment | 00:22 |
| minra | is there a .deb for links2 w/gfx? | 00:22 |
| myren | i love the principles | 00:22 |
| rev | it doesn't fit in with the standard c/unix way of thinking | 00:22 |
| myren | naked object systems are definately the way to fly | 00:22 |
| myren | and when it comes down to it, its all about making that more accessible | 00:23 |
| minra | well unix has evolved. linux does object-based memory allocation, after all | 00:23 |
| myren | ? | 00:23 |
| minra | remember the MIT lisp machine? | 00:23 |
| rev | minra: now sure. i've not run it for a few years, but i always had to compile it myself for lack of packages. and this was on a desktop. you could find links .debs, but not w/ graphics support compiled in | 00:23 |
| rev | minra: i never used one... but i've been playing with the MIT lisp machine emulator | 00:23 |
| Jaffa | Another picture of Links running through SVGALib (IIRC): http://salvare.sourceforge.net/screenshots/links-thereg.png | 00:23 |
| myren | i need to play with slate and,,, strongtalk? | 00:23 |
| rev | minra: smalltalk has a similarily simple and powerful dev environment- nothing like the bloat of most IDEs- but i think there are some cool ideas we could steal from lisp machines | 00:24 |
| myren | there's some sun project i need to check out | 00:24 |
| rev | yeah | 00:24 |
| rev | strongtalk.org | 00:24 |
| rev | they finally open sourced the VM | 00:24 |
| minra | it sounds doable... but dillo is real nice | 00:24 |
| rev | sun did i mean | 00:24 |
| myren | lisp's "code is data" thing is kind of a lie though | 00:24 |
| myren | well, | 00:24 |
| * rev never really like dillo | 00:24 | |
| myren | it betrays how useful that aspect is | 00:24 |
| rev | man | 00:24 |
| rev | i hate to cut out in a middle of a fun convo | 00:24 |
| myren | there's a lot of aspect stuff you cant do with lisp | 00:24 |
| rev | but i gotta go pick up my wife | 00:24 |
| rev | be back in a bit ... | 00:25 |
| myren | heh, she's probably less lein to forgive you in this particular case | 00:25 |
| minra | well it lets you do some strange things. i actually applied lessons learned in scheme to a jobb situation once. (ijust%'once) | 00:25 |
| myren | probably best pick her up | 00:25 |
| * rev was all pumped to try to bring a couple of you guys over to the light side (smalltalk) ... hehe :) | 00:25 | |
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| myren | you play with croquet at all? | 00:25 |
| myren | ooc | 00:25 |
| rev | myren: just a tiny bit, not much | 00:25 |
| rev | myren: i'm into more ... regular-style coding, i don't do much of the fancy, 3D or direct manip stuff | 00:26 |
| * rev goes | 00:26 | |
| * myren nods | 00:26 | |
| myren | alright, take care | 00:26 |
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| Jaffa | Right, new Sylpheed up at http://bleb.org/software/770/#sylpheed ; ApplicationCatalog2006Wip updated; Subversion tagged. Probably time to go and watch some telly. | 00:29 |
| myren | there was a sweet 3d engine called sylpheed but the dev kinda messed upthe delivery | 00:31 |
| Jaffa | Really? I've only heard of the email client... | 00:34 |
| bstock | anyone know why i can't download the maemo flasher util from http://www.maemo.org/downloads/d3.php | 00:34 |
| bstock | or does anyone have a link to the flasher util | 00:35 |
| brendan | http://www.mediafire.com/?9nil2xnzlgz | 00:37 |
| brendan | dunno what's up with the download page | 00:37 |
| bstock | thx guy | 00:38 |
| brendan | np | 00:39 |
| mat | eh I was about to ask the same question :) | 00:42 |
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| myren | Jaffa: yeah, it was a high performance python engine. | 00:50 |
| myren | suprisingly it wasnt an ironic combination | 00:50 |
| myren | erm, i mean, it actually managed to be performant | 00:51 |
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| * rev is back | 01:00 | |
| |tbb| | respect to the makers of canola | 01:00 |
| bstock | canola's gotten a lot of attention today | 01:01 |
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| myren | oh it got released yesterday didnt it | 01:01 |
| rev | it's gotten a lot for the last few days | 01:01 |
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| bstock | it does add a nice interface to the nokia | 01:02 |
| bstock | for A/V stuff anyway | 01:02 |
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| |tbb| | but still the n770 doesnt able to cook coffee :) | 01:03 |
| rev | hehe | 01:03 |
| florian | |tbb|: give me two weeks for development and we fix this remaining issue ;) | 01:04 |
| * |tbb| will think about it | 01:05 | |
| myren | is canola all volunteer work? | 01:05 |
| myren | no nokia backing? | 01:05 |
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| |tbb| | florian i will give u 3 weeks but only if there later will be a "get french crossaints to ur coffee" plugin will available! | 01:16 |
| florian | heh | 01:16 |
| disq | bstock: enable the canola desktop applet, there's a refresh media button there | 01:17 |
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| |tbb| | n8 all | 01:24 |
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| myren | sweet | 02:17 |
| myren | choose the red pill | 02:17 |
| myren | https://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationManagerRedPillMode | 02:18 |
| myren | from #geo on oftc | 02:18 |
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| Tak | hmm - fceu seems really slow today | 05:39 |
| Tak | grr, canola-conf is eating all my cpu | 05:43 |
| disq | and battery probably | 05:47 |
| disq | red pill mode? hey that's cool | 05:48 |
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| GreySim | fceu? As in the emulator? Is that actually fun to use on the 770? (I don't have one yet, just having a hard time imagining it with the button layout from what I've seen in pics.) | 06:26 |
| Tak | GreySim: yeah | 06:30 |
| Tak | I made onscreen buttons on the upper right side | 06:30 |
| GreySim | Oh, cool. Makes my wait for a 770 that much more unbearable. :P | 06:32 |
| Tak | lol | 06:32 |
| Tak | http://static.flickr.com/110/310829948_9d45e54d0f_o_d.png | 06:42 |
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| nelson | Anybldy else had their 770 (updated 2006) fail to screen-blank? | 08:59 |
| disq | hey nero has a upnp server, nero mediahome | 09:00 |
| disq | will try | 09:00 |
| disq | nelson: mine works. tho i'm still running the 2006 beta | 09:00 |
| disq | erm, not the beta beta but the first release i guess | 09:00 |
| nelson | ja, mine has worked, mostly, but not right now. | 09:02 |
| Tak | mine works fine | 09:04 |
| Tak | (2006 second release) | 09:05 |
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| disq | btw i think my touchscreen is going bad/losing responsiveness | 09:12 |
| nelson | Oh, that would be disq-uieting. | 09:15 |
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| Wiredless | TEST | 09:23 |
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| Tak | eek @ touchscreen | 09:29 |
| Tak | how long is the warranty again? | 09:29 |
| disq | my friend (who works at SonyE actually :P ) bought it from sweden so the warranty thing is kinda hard | 09:36 |
| Tak | ah | 09:43 |
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| konttori | Hi! Anybody interested in theme maker 0.90? | 10:12 |
| konttori | I don't have my 770 at the moment, so I haven't been able to test it yet. Anyone willing to help me out? | 10:13 |
| roope | Good morning. | 10:15 |
| konttori | morning roope | 10:15 |
| konttori | How come you never got around to making a theme for 770? With your sense of style, we could have a par-to-none theme for 770. | 10:19 |
| konttori | Or do your NDAs prohibit you too much? | 10:22 |
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| ferenc | morning | 10:26 |
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| konttori | so, is everybody rocking with canolas today? | 10:38 |
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| Guardian | morning | 10:39 |
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| timeless | i'm happily ignoring it since i don't believe in media | 10:52 |
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| konttori | I'm ignoring it because I don't have 770 atm. | 10:58 |
| konttori | Although I have been wondering that if it will become popular enough, perhaps I'll add support for it to theme maker. | 10:59 |
| konttori | but... time will tell | 10:59 |
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| spaetz | I'm ignoring it, since I'd rather have an open solution | 11:07 |
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| koen | rumour has that media streamer will go OSS | 11:09 |
| konttori | is that the nokias media player? | 11:14 |
| konttori | The name's a bit misleading one, as it plays local files as well, doesn't it? | 11:14 |
| koen | haven't figured out how to do that | 11:15 |
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| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:17 |
| ferenc | AD-N770: morning | 11:18 |
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| sxpert-work | vidar: have the flasher-2.0 program handy ? | 11:50 |
| sxpert-work | because the darn page is still blank | 11:50 |
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| jtra | somebody posted this link to flasher yesterday: http://www.mediafire.com/?9nil2xnzlgz | 11:53 |
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| X-Fade | ferenc: Can you fix the d*.php files *again* :D | 11:54 |
| dpb | I thought it's illegal to redistribute the flasher.. | 11:56 |
| X-Fade | ferenc: something seems to restore the 15 Nov, 0 bytes version over and over again. | 11:56 |
| ferenc | X-Fade: just a sec | 11:58 |
| X-Fade | sxpert-work: It is fixed ;) | 11:59 |
| ferenc | X-Fade: the problem is with our complicated replication and build system that puts the content from our internal server to maemo.org | 11:59 |
| ferenc | i thought i fixed it yesterday, but seems not :( | 12:00 |
| sxpert-work | X-Fade: ok | 12:02 |
| X-Fade | ferenc: Some cron job is giving you a lot of work? :) | 12:02 |
| ferenc | X-Fade: no, it is not a cron job, but some other scripts. the sad thing that i wrote them :( | 12:03 |
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| ferenc | X-Fade: but now I found the problem, really :) | 12:04 |
| X-Fade | Hehe, well you've got to find the 15 Nov files and replace them? | 12:04 |
| X-Fade | Ah :) | 12:04 |
| ferenc | X-Fade: yep. when the content is built (from the forrest xml files) it is stored in a temp directory | 12:05 |
| ferenc | well, that damn directory still had those blank d*.php files. | 12:05 |
| ferenc | the build script show have cleaned this directory... | 12:06 |
| ferenc | s/show/should | 12:06 |
| timeless | heh | 12:09 |
| timeless | speaking of which | 12:09 |
| timeless | there's this one directory which has various interesting files | 12:09 |
| timeless | but it's not linked from anywhere i can see | 12:09 |
| timeless | is there a link to it? :) | 12:09 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Is that a riddle? | 12:13 |
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| _matthias_ | anyone using syntax highlighting in vim on 770 | 12:17 |
| timeless | something like that | 12:18 |
| GreySim | Is this an okay place to ask "can the 770 do this?" And similar questions? If not, anyone know a better place? | 12:19 |
| timeless | i think there are mailing lists | 12:19 |
| timeless | i doubt you'll be shot for asking | 12:19 |
| Robot101 | (here is OK too) | 12:19 |
| GreySim | Good point. Thanks. | 12:19 |
| timeless | unless it's something like "can the 770 help me break into a bank" | 12:19 |
| GreySim | Can the 770 use a Bluetooth keyboard and VoIP headset, and especially at the same time? | 12:21 |
| timeless | ship me a keyboard and headset, and i'll test :) | 12:22 |
| * GreySim is new to Bluetooth stuff, so doesn't know much about it. | 12:23 | |
| timeless | for a normal system, it should work, and i don't think it'll hurt too much | 12:23 |
| sxpert-work | tigert: here's something to replace the google stuff in maemo mapper : http://labs.metacarta.com/osm/ | 12:23 |
| GreySim | Thanks. | 12:23 |
| tigert | hmmm | 12:29 |
| * tigert looks | 12:29 | |
| tigert | neat | 12:29 |
| tigert | looks like I need to start wardriving :) | 12:29 |
| tigert | or recruit a bunch of folks to do that | 12:29 |
| konttori | By the way, do you know how the database law applies to maps? | 12:31 |
| konttori | At least in finland database copyright expires in 15 years | 12:32 |
| _matthias_ | GreySim: it should i mean i can pair both with my 770 and the keyboard works | 12:32 |
| konttori | Thus... if that applies to maps as well (which are databases), then all over 15 years old maps are out of copyright | 12:32 |
| konttori | which would be great for projects like the metacarta | 12:32 |
| _matthias_ | though don't know if the headset works because the volume keys are broken on my headset | 12:32 |
| konttori | As e.g. street names and such don't really change that much over time. | 12:33 |
| GreySim | Ah, good to know. Thanks _matthias_. | 12:33 |
| tigert | konttori: hey | 12:33 |
| konttori | Even if the images themselves would stay copyrighted, maybe just scanning and text rocognition would do the trick | 12:34 |
| konttori | tigert: hey | 12:34 |
| onion | konttori: digiroad database would be an option here, but the pricing info is vague | 12:39 |
| konttori | Do they have out-of copyright maps? | 12:39 |
| konttori | Or what did you have in mind? | 12:40 |
| onion | konttori: if it's not too pricy then converting the data for private use would be quite nice, even if not free | 12:41 |
| bergie | the London map has at least some info... http://labs.metacarta.com/osm/?lat=6678569.62723&lon=-11593.83574&zoom=13&layers=B | 12:42 |
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| konttori | yep. But if we could use maps that are out of copyright, we could easily and very quickly create the road instances to metacarta from existing maps using some nicely tuned ocr software. Then GPS could be used to verify the exact coordinates of key points. | 12:45 |
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| konttori | OTOH even the scanning does take some work. But if allowed, it would be a good foundation for the gps data. | 12:46 |
| onion | but that would not include direction data | 12:48 |
| onion | reminds me, I should upload my tracks and draw streets someday | 12:49 |
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| * _matthias_ has lost his desk stand | 12:57 | |
| _matthias_ | cannot find replacements at nokia.co | 13:02 |
| _matthias_ | m | 13:02 |
| konttori | onion: Indeed. Very true. Although, as I said, that would only be the start. But it would be a good reference for places where the gps streets haven't yet been excavated for the metacarta. For example, finland has almost no roads in metacarta | 13:14 |
| konttori | and if I look at scotland, I see almost no roads there either. | 13:15 |
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| inz | konttori, you mean there really are more than 4-5 roads in finland, I thought it was accurate =) | 13:28 |
| konttori | Yeah. We do have one railroad as well and I was pretty much complaining that that was missing. | 13:28 |
| konttori | And one caravan trail | 13:29 |
| konttori | But that's one way | 13:29 |
| konttori | ;) | 13:29 |
| inz | Away from Turku? | 13:29 |
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| kender | hello | 14:01 |
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| tigert | _matthias_: hey | 14:10 |
| tigert | _matthias_: I have an idea for you :) | 14:14 |
| tigert | _matthias_: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/311054647/ | 14:18 |
| tigert | http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/311054649/ | 14:19 |
| tigert | :) | 14:19 |
| tigert | this rox0rs 10x better than the thing the 770 ships with | 14:19 |
| tigert | :) | 14:19 |
| kender | hehehehe | 14:20 |
| tigert | its a lot more stable even :) | 14:21 |
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| ferenc | :) | 14:22 |
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| lardman | On the HowTo_GetStartedWithSardine page, it says "Some packages will be held back. Upgrade them manually with apt-get install.", is there a list of such packages for herring? | 14:24 |
| koen | apt-get outputs that list | 14:25 |
| lardman | koen: So I need to scroll back through the output | 14:25 |
| koen | yes | 14:25 |
| lardman | oh. The buffer's not large enough when using xterm | 14:26 |
| lardman | ah, run it again | 14:27 |
| koen | their probably is another debian-approved way to get those | 14:27 |
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| lardman | fingers crossed... | 14:36 |
| lardman | ah, something failed to start - reboot | 14:36 |
| lardman | need to head home to my linux box and using the flasher to disable that | 14:37 |
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| _matthias_ | tigert: jeah .. i will try that ... really cool | 14:52 |
| _matthias_ | but then .. i'll have to by an leatherman and bring my personal mc gyver (hope i spelled that right) | 14:53 |
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| tigert | hehehe | 15:14 |
| tigert | just use scissors | 15:14 |
| lardman | Anyone here installed Octave? It's compaining about a missing dep -> gcc-3.4-base | 15:19 |
| lardman | I'm curous to know whether it's my fault, or the deps are wrong | 15:20 |
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| |tbb| | what do i need to use svn co http:/blalba on my n770 | 16:20 |
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| |tbb| | i mean the svn thing | 16:40 |
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| AD-N770 | Hi xan | 17:53 |
| xan | hi :) | 17:54 |
| xan | AD-N770, can't write /msg, not registered :| | 17:54 |
| AD-N770 | ok | 17:54 |
| AD-N770 | Are you in Finland now ? | 17:54 |
| xan | AD-N770, write some random channel in the query and I'll join ;) | 17:55 |
| Tak | why not just register? | 17:56 |
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| corypho | hey, i have a nokia 770 with sed. i cannot install bash 3.0 what's wroing? everytime, it says "unable to install, package is incompatible with current softeware"?! | 20:28 |
| corypho | ?? | 20:30 |
| inz | Is the bash package meant for IT2005? | 20:30 |
| corypho | i have the one of here. http://www.opbyte.it/maemo/ | 20:31 |
| corypho | there is only bash 3.0 i cannot say from which year | 20:31 |
| corypho | yes it is! now i got it..only for 2005 | 20:32 |
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| corypho | but probably i have the it 20006 | 20:33 |
| corypho | eh 2006 | 20:33 |
| inz | corypho, the architecture is arm, so it's for IT2005. | 20:33 |
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| inz | corypho, dunno if there's application manager installable bash for IT2006... | 20:33 |
| corypho | inz: what should i do now? my bash doesn't work to install. | 20:33 |
| corypho | inz: in case i should have bought an older it version? | 20:34 |
| inz | corypho, there's bash for IT2006 on the application catalog 2006, see http://maemo.org/maemowiki/ApplicationCatalog2006 | 20:35 |
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| corypho | inz: yes..but the link is dead! jeehaw | 20:36 |
| inz | corypho, doh | 20:40 |
| corypho | inz: what should i do? | 20:40 |
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| inz | corypho, if you add the repository to application manager, you should be able to install the bash-m package | 20:42 |
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| inz | corypho, it should appear under Commandline | 20:43 |
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| corypho | inz: yes, but they both say that they are not good or incompatible with the curren version | 20:46 |
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| kender | hello | 20:52 |
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| tko | http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000734.html :) | 20:57 |
| tko | and it even has "Pro Mode" ! :) | 20:57 |
| Tak | I can't imagine any other way for a wget gui to look | 21:01 |
| inz | corypho, you probably need some other repository for some dependencies | 21:03 |
| inz | corypho, probably http://repository.maemo.org mistral free | 21:04 |
| tko | Tak, Url: |______| [Download] | 21:05 |
| Tak | no point in using wget for a backend in that case | 21:05 |
| corypho | inz: how can i start gpsd in the busybox? | 21:11 |
| inz | corypho, I've no idea, but I'd guess the same way as in bash | 21:11 |
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| Milhouse | What kind of wireless transfer speeds are you all getting on the 770? I max out at ~350KB/s on a very good 11g connection when using scp | 21:34 |
| Milhouse | Oh hang on, that is reading from a 1GB MMC so that could be the problem... will try a test on internal flash | 21:34 |
| inz | I get 400 kB/s with scp. | 21:36 |
| Milhouse | 377KB/s when scp'ing the Discovery.avi off of the 770 | 21:37 |
| Milhouse | not very impressive is it? | 21:37 |
| Milhouse | the link itself should be capable of 10x that - close to 4Mb/s... wonder what is holding it back on the 770... CPU? | 21:38 |
| Tak | MB != Mb | 21:38 |
| Tak | 377 KB/s is like 2.2 Mb/s | 21:38 |
| mgedmin | the 770's CPU usage is rather hight while scp'ing, IIRC | 21:39 |
| mgedmin | you may get higher speeds by choosing a cheaper cipher | 21:39 |
| mgedmin | it would be nice to know for sure if that is so | 21:39 |
| inz | 550+ kB/s using blowfish | 21:40 |
| Tak | if it's just for file copy, why not ftp? | 21:41 |
| inz | Tak, because I don't have ftp on the device ;) | 21:41 |
| Tak | actually gftp could use a nice maemo port | 21:41 |
| Tak | then you'd have a gui for scp too | 21:42 |
| sp3001 | bah | 21:42 |
| Tak | hmm - does opera support upload via ftp? | 21:42 |
| sp3001 | nc & cat :D | 21:42 |
| Milhouse | after using canola, one issue seems to be streaming performance - wonder if that is due to poor wifi? | 21:42 |
| Milhouse | i have mounted NFS, and that is just about usable | 21:43 |
| Milhouse | will run some checks to see what kind of tranfer rate i'm getting | 21:43 |
| corypho | does anyobody now how i can run out gpsd on my nokia 770? | 21:43 |
| mgedmin | when I used NFS on OS2005, I also noticed huge CPU loads | 21:44 |
| Milhouse | bummer | 21:44 |
| mgedmin | corypho: I think I saw the instructions on the wiki somewhere | 21:44 |
| mgedmin | corypho: you have to bind the device with rfcomm (or the bluetooth applet), then pass /dev/rfcomm0 as the device name to gpsd ... I think | 21:44 |
| mgedmin | why would you want to use gpsd? | 21:44 |
| Milhouse | on top of scp, i guess you need to factor in wireless encryption - i'm using WPA/PSK | 21:45 |
| inz | Yeah, I'm using WEP | 21:45 |
| inz | (I know it's shit) | 21:45 |
| Milhouse | that may be a little "cheaper" in terms of CPU overhead | 21:45 |
| * Tak grumbles about WEP+PEAP | 21:46 | |
| Milhouse | which would contribute towards your improved 550+ performance | 21:46 |
| mgedmin | I wonder if it would get any faster with an open access point | 21:46 |
| Milhouse | (this assumes WPA/WEP is handled by the CPU and not the WiFi chip) | 21:46 |
| inz | With ftp I get 625 kB/s | 21:46 |
| Milhouse | definately looking like it's a CPU issue... | 21:47 |
| mgedmin | load-applet is good for seeing what is a cpu issue and what isn't | 21:48 |
| mgedmin | although I wish it would also show i/o wait time | 21:48 |
| mgedmin | and separated ram & swap instead of adding them together | 21:48 |
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| Milhouse | when I installed the bluetooth applet along with the Wifi Detector, something had to go from my status bar, and load applet was the victim :) | 21:49 |
| inz | mgedmin, load-applet sucks, osso-statusbar-cpu is waaay better ;) | 21:50 |
| inz | mgedmin, (note that my opinion as the author of o-s-c may be a bit biased) | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | inz: that's mostly true | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | and I used it for a long time | 21:50 |
| mgedmin | but the load-applet + panel-clock combination is just prettier | 21:51 |
| mgedmin | and I a sucker for prettyness | 21:51 |
| inz | I think load-applet is actually ugly, but that's just me | 21:51 |
| Milhouse | i need a load applet type app that runs on the desktop not in the status bar :) | 21:51 |
| inz | =) | 21:51 |
| inz | o-s-c actually lies to you, if you let the display go blank. | 21:52 |
| Milhouse | which one showed a graph of the cpu and memory? | 21:52 |
| inz | It stops updating the graph | 21:52 |
| Milhouse | and could overlay the time? | 21:52 |
| inz | Mil, o-s-c | 21:52 |
| Milhouse | i used to like that... until i installed the BT plugin :( | 21:53 |
| Milhouse | one thing i never quite understood - the memory showed two shades of green... what were they? | 21:53 |
| inz | Milhouse, actually it shows three shades of green ;) | 21:53 |
| Milhouse | ah... i must be colour blind :) | 21:54 |
| inz | Milhouse, no, there's just never enough memory for anything to be cached =) | 21:55 |
| inz | Milhouse, the darker green is "buffers" | 21:55 |
| Tak | free and top always tell me that like 1/2 my memory is cached | 21:56 |
| inz | Tak, free actually doesn't show cached on the device | 21:57 |
| * mgedmin installs rsync | 21:57 | |
| inz | Tak, but you're right, there's something wrong w/ my applet | 21:57 |
| Tak | my bad, just top then | 21:57 |
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| inz | Tak, indeed it's the buffers that never get filled up, you're right | 22:03 |
| inz | Tak, so the applet actually does work right, it's just my memory that is failing =) | 22:04 |
| Tak | probably because your buffers are full ;-) | 22:04 |
| inz | indeed | 22:05 |
| inz | Maybe I should add more features to my applet and make it all-in-one so it wouldn't get replaced by stupid other plugins ;P | 22:05 |
| Tak | btw, you're not the inz that used to hack on mono? | 22:05 |
| inz | nope | 22:05 |
| inz | I don't even use mono | 22:05 |
| keesj | Hi, I am porting xmoto to the n770 , and now I would really like to know what part of the application needs performance improvements. Will running callgrind on the pc help in any way | 22:06 |
| evilbit | anyone have a link for updating the 770 under a linux host? | 22:11 |
| mgedmin | interesting: while apt-get is installing software, vmstat shows the cpu as 99% idle, zero I/O, but the interupts column shows 8-10 thousand | 22:11 |
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| mgedmin | whee, my vim segfaults | 22:13 |
| rev | use emacs? | 22:13 |
| * rev ducks | 22:13 | |
| rev | *someone had to say it* | 22:13 |
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| mgedmin | nah, I'll just reboot | 22:14 |
| rev | well, to each their own | 22:14 |
| rev | ;) | 22:14 |
| mgedmin | did anyone even port emacs to the 770? | 22:14 |
| kender | so huge, isn't it? | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | typing . ./.profile with the vkb gets old really fast | 22:15 |
| inz | why ./.profile? | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | easier to type than ~/.profile | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | and xterm starts up in ~ | 22:16 |
| inz | oh, busybox's . doesn't look up in wd | 22:17 |
| mgedmin | no | 22:17 |
| mgedmin | it was very surprising | 22:17 |
| inz | yes it was | 22:17 |
| * sp3001 frequently finds busybox surprising | 22:17 | |
| rev | well, there's been bigger things than emacs ported to the 770 | 22:18 |
| * rev just uses nano on the 770 | 22:18 | |
| rev | or the editor in squeak | 22:18 |
| rev | man | 22:19 |
| rev | one of the reasons i bought the 770 was to play around with the Newton emulator, Einstein | 22:19 |
| rev | but einstein isn't OSS... and it's compiled for OS 2005. | 22:19 |
| rev | so i'm SOL. | 22:19 |
| mgedmin | boo for closed-source software | 22:19 |
| mgedmin | boo | 22:19 |
| rev | i have to wait til they get around to it | 22:19 |
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| rev | indeed, boo-boo | 22:19 |
| inz | boo-hoo | 22:20 |
| kender | boo | 22:20 |
| rev | i guess i could down-grace to OS 2005 | 22:20 |
| rev | but blech to that | 22:20 |
| alp | if that's a main reason for buying a 770, you have bigger issues than being stuck with OS 2005 | 22:21 |
| rev | wlel, that's not m ymain reason for getting a 770 | 22:22 |
| rev | just part of the excuse to | 22:22 |
| rev | but it was one of the reasons i explicitly said: i want a linux-based handheld again. Einstein will never support CE, because the developers don't care to port it to anything CE-based. I've had a few Linux PDAs before, which were all very disapointing and far less useful than a CE or PPC device. | 22:23 |
| rev | but, thankfully, the 770 in my opinion is heads and shoulders above the Zaurus models I've owned | 22:23 |
| rev | one of these days, i need to write/setup some sort of wireless file sync between my WM5 phone and my 770 for making sure the book i'm reading on my 770 is available on my phone too | 22:24 |
| Tak | now I don't feel bad about never having gotten a zaurus :-) | 22:25 |
| Tak | keesj: does it have sound? | 22:26 |
| rev | it's a lot of little things added up, but the nokia 770 is so much better of a device | 22:26 |
| rev | i was thinking of getting a zaurus again, because of the faster CPU when i was looking at the 770 recently | 22:27 |
| rev | but the bigger screen was just too much of a draw, and rightly so- it's a gorgeous screen. the VGA zaurus has a nice screen, but not as nice as the 770s. | 22:27 |
| keesj | Tak, yes | 22:27 |
| Tak | what method? straightforward sdl? | 22:29 |
| Milhouse | why not install OS2005 on to your MMC and dual boot between 2005 and 2006? | 22:29 |
| keesj | sdl mixer | 22:29 |
| Tak | might try esd or gstreamer? | 22:29 |
| rev | Milhouse: huh, i had no idea one could do such a thing | 22:29 |
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| inz | rev, you probably can't, the it2005 probably doesn't like it2006 kernel (and vice versa) | 22:34 |
| inz | Not sure though, haven't tried | 22:34 |
| rev | aww, bummer | 22:36 |
| rev | oh well | 22:36 |
| rev | not a biggie... i'll just wait for einstein to be recompiled for 06 | 22:36 |
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| Tak | best compiler error ever: "Syntax error." | 22:47 |
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| keesj | Tak, removing sound really helped a lot , Where does such an educated guess come from? | 22:52 |
| Tak | xmame/fceu | 22:52 |
| Tak | xmame sound quality improved by an order of magnitude when I enabled the esd driver; I haven't gotten around to writing one for fceu | 22:53 |
| keesj | Tak, are you using pixel doubling? what kind of framerates can you get? | 22:55 |
| Tak | tbh, I haven't been monitoring the framerates | 22:55 |
| Tak | if the games are playable, I'm happy ;-) | 22:55 |
| keesj | fair :) | 22:56 |
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| Tak | I haven't modified the blitting code for either, so I don't know yet if they're doing pixel doubling or what | 22:56 |
| Tak | I've been meaning to look at fceu and see if it's doing screen flipping or clip updates, though | 22:57 |
| keesj | Time to find a Bluethooth joystick | 22:58 |
| Tak | although I suspect there's no (straightforward) way to avoid flipping the whole screen | 22:59 |
| sbaturzio | just curious, wii joysticks are bluetooth? are they usable with something different than wii? | 22:59 |
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| keesj | don't know | 23:01 |
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| Guardian | good evening | 23:50 |
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