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| dashiad | Anyone knows which signal do i have to connect to capture a keypress event on a textarea,when the key is pressed in the vkb?It looks like it only gets called when pressed in the bt keyboard.. | 02:44 |
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| timelyx | anyone alive? | 04:04 |
| dashiad | Me...more or less :-P | 04:05 |
| * timelyx sighs | 04:05 | |
| timelyx | my 770 decided to run out of battery :( | 04:05 |
| dashiad | Ehrm, mine decides to do so every 2 days :-P ...Recharging helps . | 04:07 |
| timelyx | mine was charged when i left work a couple of hours ago | 04:07 |
| dashiad | Umm..I think OS2006 eats up more battery than OS2005...But not SO much... | 04:08 |
| timelyx | i'm used to fairly good battery life | 04:09 |
| timelyx | but if the device decides to go prancing through messed up wifi hotspots, ... | 04:09 |
| dashiad | Ummm..The search engine on maemo web site is broken.... | 04:11 |
| Pio | 18/11/2006 - Keesj is working on xmoto for Nokia 770 | 04:12 |
| Pio | http://xmoto.free.fr/images/divers/xmoto_on_nokia770.jpg | 04:12 |
| Pio | yummy | 04:12 |
| timelyx | dashiad: does google work? | 04:13 |
| dashiad | Yes, but not the "Advanced search" link | 04:13 |
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| ferenc | morning | 09:05 |
| inz | morning | 09:20 |
| X-Fade | morning | 09:48 |
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| timeless | gman: did you see my question about bonoboa-activation core? | 10:33 |
| timeless | oops, wrong channel | 10:33 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:54 |
| timeless | so it is | 10:54 |
| AD-N770 | good morning | 11:04 |
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| timeless | [3] abort(0x81167a0, 0xfede110c, 0xfedf3dbc, 0x3, 0x1, 0x8046f3c), at 0xfeef172d | 11:51 |
| timeless | [4] g_logv(0xfede110c, 0x4, 0xfede10e8, 0x8046b30), at 0xfed91274 | 11:51 |
| timeless | [5] g_log(0xfede110c, 0x4, 0xfede10e8, 0xfede10d0, 0x800), at 0xfed912a1 | 11:51 |
| timeless | [6] g_malloc0(0x800), at 0xfed8fd44 | 11:51 |
| * timeless loves gnome | 11:51 | |
| timeless | yes, g_malloc0 really can fail when i run out of memory | 11:51 |
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| florian_kc | good morning | 11:58 |
| timeless | it's either 5am or afternoon | 12:01 |
| Fatal | o_O | 12:01 |
| ferenc | good morning florian_kc | 12:03 |
| inz | timeless, I'd guess it's guaranteed to fail when running out of memory | 12:03 |
| timeless | yes | 12:04 |
| inz | which is reasonable | 12:04 |
| timeless | define reasonable | 12:04 |
| timeless | crashing isn't reasonable in my book | 12:04 |
| inz | timeless, reasonable in the sense that it is specified to work that way, and there is g_try_malloc0, if you want to hassle with running out of memory | 12:05 |
| timeless | i'm an end user | 12:05 |
| timeless | i kinda want my apps to not eat my data | 12:06 |
| timeless | i know that makes me fairly demanding as users go | 12:06 |
| timeless | but well, there you have it | 12:06 |
| inz | timeless, but the blame is the app, not g_malloc0 | 12:06 |
| inz | +on | 12:06 |
| timeless | having a function that would be better labeled crash_eventually() | 12:06 |
| timeless | is not a bug in the apps that call it | 12:06 |
| timeless | it's a bug in the api that introduced it | 12:07 |
| timeless | see old new thing for information about crash randomly | 12:07 |
| inz | timeless, you like segmentation faults better than aborts? | 12:07 |
| inz | timeless, if the programs want to handle oom situations, they shouldn't use g_malloc0. | 12:08 |
| timeless | g_malloc0 shouldn't exist | 12:08 |
| Fatal | hahah | 12:08 |
| timeless | people shouldn't be allowed to write code like that | 12:08 |
| inz | timeless, you go write your apps that have perfect memory handling and can survive any failing memory allocation | 12:08 |
| timeless | and note that g_malloc0 is not usually called by apps | 12:08 |
| timeless | http://mxr-test.landfill.bugzilla.org/mxr-test/gnome/source/ORBit2/src/orb/GIOP/giop-send-buffer.c#270 | 12:10 |
| timeless | was the caller in this case | 12:10 |
| timeless | that's not exactly some random optional piece of an app | 12:10 |
| inz | timeless, not being called by app directly doesn't make it g_malloc0's fault | 12:10 |
| timeless | every single layer of gnome/gtk/gdk/glib | 12:10 |
| timeless | i'm not blaming g_malloc0 | 12:11 |
| timeless | i'm blaming the author of g_malloc0 for *authoring* it | 12:11 |
| timeless | or the maintainers of glib for creating/allowing it to exist | 12:11 |
| Fatal | use malloc then | 12:11 |
| timeless | (and yes, i know that's orbit) | 12:11 |
| timeless | i can't! | 12:11 |
| timeless | it's not my code | 12:11 |
| timeless | it's some random module used by some other random module used by some app that probably had my deata | 12:11 |
| timeless | s/dea/da/ | 12:12 |
| inz | timeless, but back to the point of abort vs. segfault | 12:12 |
| timeless | why the **** do people assume that i'm a developer? | 12:12 |
| timeless | i'm a user who doesn't like it when my apps eat my homework | 12:12 |
| Fatal | since you tell them how do do their code | 12:12 |
| inz | indeed | 12:12 |
| Fatal | s/do do/to do/ | 12:12 |
| timeless | ? | 12:12 |
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| Fatal | you rant on about something you have no grasp of in that case | 12:12 |
| timeless | that's a non sequitor | 12:12 |
| timeless | hrm | 12:13 |
| timeless | ok, i'm a developer | 12:13 |
| Fatal | then fix it | 12:13 |
| timeless | and i do work on code that actually does deal w/ oom | 12:13 |
| timeless | i just don't work on gnome | 12:13 |
| timeless | when i can avoid it | 12:13 |
| timeless | because gnome is broken as designed | 12:13 |
| timeless | it's *designed* to kill itself when it runs out of memory | 12:13 |
| timeless | that was a design choice that they refuse to change | 12:13 |
| inz | There _is_ g_try_malloc0, if the dev's are to handle the oom situation. | 12:14 |
| Fatal | please do not confuse dying because there is no memory left for a string and dying because you can't cache a 30MB image | 12:14 |
| tigert | timeless: you sure talk a lot :)= | 12:14 |
| inz | g_malloc0 is very developer friendly, as it tells what happened | 12:15 |
| inz | Instead of random segfault | 12:15 |
| inz | Yes, the sw should handle the situation in a perfect world | 12:15 |
| timeless | they like the design, i don't, and they won't accept patches to fix it | 12:17 |
| timeless | because they don't consider it to be broken | 12:17 |
| Fatal | i find it insane to handle oom if i need to malloc room for a string, without it my program won't work, so please _DIE_ | 12:17 |
| timeless | and they don't want to bloat the code with something they don't believe can happen | 12:17 |
| * timeless shrugs | 12:17 | |
| timeless | it happens\ | 12:17 |
| timeless | even on systems w/ 4g of memory as was the case for that crash | 12:17 |
| inz | timeless, what patches they don't accept, a patch that replaces g_malloc0 with g_try_malloc0? | 12:17 |
| timeless | ches to fix it | 12:18 |
| timeless | because they don't consider it broken | 12:18 |
| * timeless sighs, connection got stuck things were sent twice :) | 12:18 | |
| tigert | if you run into this kind of crashes a lot, you need more ram :) | 12:18 |
| timeless | tigert: 4g isn't enough? | 12:19 |
| tigert | if you run out, not :) | 12:19 |
| timeless | i have probably half a dozen cores from that | 12:19 |
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| inz | timeless, I find asserting that g_malloc0/g_malloc returns 8 byte aligned pointers is more weird | 12:19 |
| timeless | tigert: but note that some of us use systems with <1/2 g of ram | 12:19 |
| timeless | inz: where's that? | 12:19 |
| timeless | orbit? | 12:20 |
| inz | timeless, the link you pasted, right after the g_malloc0 | 12:20 |
| * timeless nods | 12:20 | |
| timeless | note: orbit isn't my code, it's a generic proxy system that lots of modules use | 12:20 |
| timeless | most proxy systems like playing tricks w/ memory addresses by tagging them | 12:20 |
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| timeless | the expectation is that people developing a port to a system where that isn't true will see it long before it's released | 12:21 |
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| * timeless ponders about 8byte though | 12:21 | |
| inz | Yeah, I know what ORBit is, and I've already understood you're not it's maintainer, nor want any affiliation with it for that matter =) | 12:22 |
| timeless | that does seem a bit high, must be some quirk of glib that the orbit devs bet won't change | 12:22 |
| dwd | timeless: I have 2G of memory on my workstation, and running out of RAM+SWAP is a rarity that's always indicative of a runaway process. On the 770, it's a bit different, of course, but in general, when an app runs out of memory and cannot allocate more, it's a bit difficult to handle the case in any reasonable way. (I suppose you could have some code which assassinated other processes to reduce memory load, though) | 12:22 |
| timeless | you mean like the oom killer in linux? | 12:22 |
| timeless | too bad the 770 protects 99% of all apps | 12:22 |
| inz | timeless, you can replace the g_malloc funcs with your own with g_mem_set_vtable | 12:22 |
| timeless | the one app it doesn't protect gets respawned instantly :) | 12:22 |
| timeless | inz: that won't help | 12:22 |
| timeless | because the coders expect it never to return null | 12:23 |
| timeless | you can't just replace it | 12:23 |
| dwd | timeless: Well, that's one option. I prefer badly written runaways that self-terminate, in fact. :-) | 12:23 |
| timeless | so | 12:23 |
| inz | timeless, I didnät suggest it as a fix for the crash, but a reason for the assertion to fail | 12:23 |
| timeless | the apps that died were *not* the app that ran away btw | 12:23 |
| inz | s/ä/'/ | 12:23 |
| timeless | the app that ran away was busy taking 2 dumps to disk (writing 4g to disk twice just isn't that fast) | 12:24 |
| timeless | and actually, the app that ran away handles oom in 99% of cases | 12:24 |
| timeless | it just missed a couple of spots :) | 12:24 |
| timeless | otherwise it wouldn't have crashed and all the poor gtk apps on my system would have | 12:25 |
| timeless | instead of just a bunch of them | 12:25 |
| timeless | anyway, the reason the alignment trick works relates to the new_size they ask for | 12:27 |
| timeless | which is bigger than 8bytes | 12:27 |
| timeless | it's a reasonable assert | 12:27 |
| timeless | certainly better than doing the pointer arithmetic without it | 12:28 |
| inz | And once again, it's better to assert it, than counting on it | 12:28 |
| inz | yeah | 12:28 |
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| Jaffa | Yay, I've finally got Sylpheed: a) compiled against 2006 OS; b) integrated into the task navigator (thanks to the recent maemo-dev thread) | 12:35 |
| Jaffa | Nice to see the "porting an existing app" tutorial doesn't mention osso_initialize() either | 12:36 |
| timeless | odd | 12:36 |
| timeless | i know i read that in a howto | 12:36 |
| timeless | http://209.85.129.104/search?q=cache:kgrL2qgA7i0J:www.maemo.org/platform/docs/tutorials/Maemo_tutorial.pdf+howto+osso_initialize+site:maemo.org+-%22maemo-developers%22+-%22WITHOUT+ANY+WARRANTY%22+-lxr+-hafqa&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3 | 12:41 |
| timeless | 8.2.1. Maemo Initialization | 12:41 |
| timeless | All maemo applications need to be initialized correctly or they will not work as expected. | 12:41 |
| timeless | One symptom of missing initialization is that application starts from Task Navigator but | 12:41 |
| timeless | closes automatically after few seconds. | 12:41 |
| timeless | don't you read the howtos? | 12:41 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: http://maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_porting_an_existing_application.html is supposed to be a walk through of porting Gaim, but doesn't mention osso_initialize(). The fact that some other document does mention osso_initialize() is of no relevance to the bug in "Porting an existing application to maemo 2.1" | 12:43 |
| timeless | jaffa: i only wrote about 100 complaints while reviewing the howtos | 12:44 |
| timeless | consistency checking each howto against all the others for "you missed a function call" wasn't on my list | 12:44 |
| timeless | i can try for next time | 12:44 |
| timeless | i think i'll go bother the person responsible for them now though, so if you have a laundry list, please provide it now | 12:44 |
| timeless | otherwise, you'll have to wait for the next proxy pony | 12:44 |
| Jaffa | That's the main one I've found so far. I was going to file a bug against it, but if you're going to do it anyway, I won't bother? | 12:45 |
| timeless | nah, file the bug | 12:45 |
| timeless | the more maemo.org/bugzilla is used, the better | 12:45 |
| timeless | please do me a favor though, include http://www.maemo.org/platform/docs/howtos/howto_porting_an_existing_application.html in the url field | 12:46 |
| timeless | preferably w/ a #anchor target to where you expect it to be | 12:46 |
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| timeless | do note that there are at least 3 cross references to the Maemo 2.1 tutorial which has that call listed | 12:47 |
| timeless | but i agree, their omition of that detail is a fairly big bug | 12:48 |
| * timeless wonders why they didn't release a patch showing precisely what they did | 12:49 | |
| timeless | anyway... off to bother the engineers | 12:49 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: https://maemo.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=876 | 12:54 |
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| raph_ael | hello | 13:02 |
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| timeless | jaffa: i hand delivered the complaint | 14:20 |
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| Jaffa | timeless: thanks | 14:30 |
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| timeless | heh | 15:18 |
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| Guardian | hmm curious, when i launch xephyr from my SDK_PC target everything is ok | 16:01 |
| Guardian | however if i launch Xephyr from Ubuntu 6.10, then if i click a menu the menu gets closed automatically | 16:01 |
| Guardian | is the xephyr that comes with sirroco modified in some way ? | 16:02 |
| koen | tigert: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000175.html | 16:02 |
| tigert | koen: woot, interesting | 16:05 |
| koen | tigert: sean is the project lead for the FIC phone | 16:05 |
| tigert | yea | 16:05 |
| tigert | cool :) | 16:06 |
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| keesj | Hi, In my app i want to find out what code needs performance tweaking, what tool can I use? | 16:36 |
| keesj | cprof , oprofile, callgrind ? | 16:37 |
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| ab | keesj: cachegrind + callgrind | 16:45 |
| ab | if it is a userspace | 16:45 |
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| keesj | but callgrind seams a bit abandoned | 17:05 |
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| myren | callgrind works so fantastically well theres no need for it to be updated | 17:43 |
| keesj | myren, right , it does not compile against vallgrind 3.2 :) | 17:45 |
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| keesj | myren, sorry , it itegrated in valgrind 3.2 , thanks for the help (I will try to find out where the callgrind binary is located) | 17:51 |
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| Wiredless | afternoon | 17:57 |
| Wiredless | well it is here | 17:57 |
| Tak | heh | 17:57 |
| Wiredless | anyone working on canola here? | 17:57 |
| Wiredless | ok anyone else beta testing canola then? | 17:59 |
| Tak | else? | 17:59 |
| Tak | is it available for beta? | 17:59 |
| Wiredless | well not sure | 17:59 |
| Wiredless | i was allowed | 17:59 |
| Tak | ah | 18:00 |
| Wiredless | but asked not tos hare | 18:00 |
| Tak | gotta love proprietary software | 18:00 |
| Wiredless | how so | 18:00 |
| Tak | "NO SHARING!" | 18:00 |
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| Wiredless | wonders if it will free | 18:00 |
| Wiredless | 29th relese date | 18:01 |
| Wiredless | guys did a nice job on interface | 18:02 |
| Wiredless | hats off to them | 18:02 |
| Wiredless | im having some server side problems tho | 18:03 |
| Wiredless | guess i should put an XP system back together and try that | 18:04 |
| Wiredless | second though screw that | 18:05 |
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| koen | Wiredless: does it have a mythtv client? | 18:14 |
| disq | heh everybody's waiting for canola :) | 18:17 |
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| keesj | to me it sounds like good Italian food | 18:17 |
| disq | Wiredless: which upnp servers did you try it with? do those servers reencode xvid etc? :) | 18:18 |
| spaetz | Is Canola going to be open source? | 18:20 |
| spaetz | I'm not waiting for it, if not. Just for the record :-) | 18:22 |
| disq | i don't really care that much. but i'd prefer it being open source of course | 18:22 |
| disq | and to me italian food == cooking steak in the hotel room (yes, milano was boring) | 18:23 |
| spaetz | hehe | 18:23 |
| Tak | spaetz: no, according to http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=3430 | 18:23 |
| keesj | lol | 18:23 |
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| spaetz | tak, ahh thanks | 18:24 |
| disq | btw i don't like how they're going with the "truly scriptable ui" etc. sure it might work great on the new device (880? 780? whatever) but not in 770 | 18:24 |
| disq | even nullsoft couldn't pull it off with winamp3 | 18:25 |
| keesj | I think ajax is what we today call scriptable ui. I like it to be scriptable , but I like it even more to look nice | 18:33 |
| keesj | media-streamer looks nice | 18:33 |
| timeless | what's a truly scriptable ui? | 18:35 |
| keesj | and who is this god person | 18:35 |
| disq | a scriptable ui is an ui that can be scripted to do unnecessary and usually stupid things. like putting the menubar on the right side but clicking on one of the items opens up the submenu on the other side | 18:37 |
| keesj | timeless, I think it can be defined in time meeded to create a nice looking application and the type of users using it | 18:37 |
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| timeless | :) | 18:39 |
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| timeless | anyone here used svn before? | 18:42 |
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| timeless | swift% svn up | 18:43 |
| timeless | svn: run 'svn cleanup' to remove locks (type 'svn help cleanup' for details) | 18:43 |
| timeless | swift% svn cleanup | 18:43 |
| timeless | svn: Can't copy '...' to '...': No such file or directory | 18:43 |
| disq | i used svn but only for basic stuff like checking out and checking in | 18:43 |
| timeless | is this a feature? | 18:43 |
| * timeless supposes that it's remotely relevant that earlier this happened: | 18:44 | |
| timeless | swift% svn up | 18:44 |
| timeless | .... | 18:44 |
| timeless | svn: Can't copy '...' to '...': No space left on device | 18:44 |
| pokute_ | hmm. Sounds like buggy behavior | 18:45 |
| timeless | you don't think that's a feature? | 18:45 |
| keesj | and you have space on the device? | 18:46 |
| timeless | i didn't when it ran out of space | 18:46 |
| keesj | perhaps remote is out of space? | 18:46 |
| timeless | i have 4.6G now | 18:46 |
| Tak | you're b0rked | 18:46 |
| keesj | O it's a recursive call? | 18:46 |
| Tak | I'd backup the working copy and make a clean checkout | 18:46 |
| timeless | um, i don't have space to backup the working copy | 18:47 |
| timeless | i do have time to file a bug if someone wants to suggest where it belongs :) | 18:47 |
| Tak | your svn project is > 4.6G ? | 18:47 |
| timeless | um | 18:47 |
| keesj | It's nice that the cairo maintainer is being active | 18:47 |
| timeless | some of my svn projects are >10g | 18:47 |
| timeless | browser 9.28M 4.58G 9.28M /export/home/svn/lxr-root/lxr-data/world-all.0/world/garage/browser | 18:48 |
| timeless | hrm, no, that's not it | 18:48 |
| * timeless frowns | 18:48 | |
| timeless | yeah, two of them are >10g each | 18:50 |
| mgedmin | I would do a svn diff > my-changes.diff, just in case | 18:51 |
| mgedmin | then maybe rm the whole tree and make a clean checkout | 18:52 |
| mgedmin | if you decide to go that way, make sure you add any new files before the svn diff, or you'll lose them | 18:52 |
| timeless | this is a cross reference, it shouldn't have any changes in it | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | also, diff cannot express binary files, which might be a show-stopper | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | hey, idea | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | probably bogus, but still | 18:53 |
| mgedmin | "No space left on device" might mean you ran out of inode numbers if this is an ext2/3 filesystem | 18:54 |
| mgedmin | df will show plenty of free bytes, but df -i will show 0 inodes | 18:54 |
| timeless | swift% df -h ~ | 18:54 |
| timeless | Filesystem size used avail capacity Mounted on | 18:54 |
| timeless | root_pool/home/timeless | 18:54 |
| timeless | 69G 7.6G 2.8M 100% /export/home/timeless | 18:54 |
| timeless | i really ran out of disk space | 18:54 |
| timeless | this wasn't just no inodes | 18:55 |
| _follower_ | is that a literal '...' (three periods?) | 18:55 |
| timeless | no | 18:55 |
| timeless | i'm not sure if the paths are public | 18:55 |
| _follower_ | ah... | 18:55 |
| _follower_ | i love "open source" :-) | 18:56 |
| timeless | it's foopy.svn-base foopy.tmp | 18:56 |
| _follower_ | hmmm... | 18:56 |
| _follower_ | i wonder if a 'svn status' | 18:56 |
| timeless | barpy.svn-base barpy.2.tmp | 18:56 |
| _follower_ | (or it's more verbose cousin) | 18:56 |
| _follower_ | would help point to anything | 18:56 |
| * timeless runs svn status for kicks | 18:57 | |
| _follower_ | does barpy.svn-base or barpy.2.tmp exist? | 18:57 |
| timeless | barpy.svn-base doesn't exist | 18:57 |
| timeless | barp.2.tmp does exist | 18:58 |
| timeless | erm | 18:58 |
| timeless | barpy.2.tmp does exist | 18:58 |
| _follower_ | hmmm... | 18:58 |
| timeless | that'd be pretty bad accounting i suppose | 18:58 |
| * timeless applauds svn | 18:58 | |
| _follower_ | thinking -base got copied to .tmp and then -base was deleted? | 18:59 |
| timeless | i think it didn't correctly maintain its list of what it had/hadn't done | 18:59 |
| timeless | and got confused | 18:59 |
| timeless | so it's playing back the wrong step | 18:59 |
| _follower_ | :-( | 19:00 |
| timeless | !summon fer | 19:00 |
| _follower_ | unfortunately i think when such things have failed for me in the past i did in fact backup the changed files and then re-checkout and merged... | 19:01 |
| timeless | but you didn't file a bug? :) | 19:01 |
| _follower_ | well, it wasn't specifically that issue :-) | 19:01 |
| timeless | open source is about sharing your problems with people who can fix them so that you don't share the bugs with people who can't deal with them :) | 19:01 |
| _follower_ | i guess i didn't consider it a bug :-) | 19:02 |
| timeless | corrupting the file system such that it can't be fixed on its own isn't a bug? | 19:02 |
| timeless | boy, i like your definition of features | 19:02 |
| _follower_ | each to their own :-) it was too long ago... | 19:04 |
| _follower_ | anyway, back to your problem at hand, i'm afraid i can't suggest much more. other than going to wherever the svn chaps hangout on irc... :-) | 19:04 |
| timeless | any ideas which way that is? :) | 19:04 |
| _follower_ | that way ----> | 19:05 |
| keesj | timeless, perhaps also /tmp might be used | 19:07 |
| timeless | i don't see anything interesting there | 19:08 |
| timeless | plus relying on that when the user just ran out of disk space seems like a bad idea :) | 19:09 |
| _follower_ | good luck and good night... | 19:10 |
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| Tak | I'm not sure there's really anything to be done when you run out of disk | 19:17 |
| timeless | you should always be able to retreat to a safe point imo | 19:18 |
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| timeless | especially in a transactional system | 19:18 |
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| |tbb| | anyone knows how much effort does it need to port macchanger for the n770 | 19:57 |
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| keesj | this macchanger ?? isn't that just a ifconfig command to set the mac address? | 23:10 |
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| mgedmin | soulds like a web 2.0 social website for people with macs that want to exchange them | 23:23 |
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| keesj | isn't that web 3.0 ? | 23:25 |
| Pio | 3.01rc3 | 23:26 |
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