IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2013-11-26

« Monday, 2013-11-25 Index Wednesday, 2013-11-27 »
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DocScrutinizer05tbh I wonder why nobody has installed a *real* linux FOSS OS on N906:12
DocScrutinizer05epen plain debian can't be worse than all that twisted stuff to work around aegis06:12
DocScrutinizer05even*06:12
DocScrutinizer05I'd probably rather use emacs-dialer than aegis-sudo and whatnot06:13
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer05: nemo isn't FOSS enough?08:26
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coderusjuiceme: ping08:52
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DocScrutinizer05dm8tbr: when it's based on closed blobs android hardware abstraction layer then I for sure wouldn't consider it FOSS enough (for whatever standards of "FOSS enough")09:08
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer05: sorry what?09:08
dm8tbrnemo does not use android HAL on the N9/N950 AFAIK09:09
DocScrutinizer05right, on N9 it shouldn't since there prolly isn't any such thing09:09
DocScrutinizer05if there's such thing like nemo on N9, no idea09:10
DocScrutinizer05tbh I don't get your question09:11
dm8tbrobviously there is, that's where it all started (and on the N900)09:11
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dm8tbryou were complaining about the lack of a FOSS userspace on the N9. The Nemo project provides exactly that.09:11
DocScrutinizer05I was complaining?09:12
DocScrutinizer05you have funny definitions of "to complain"09:12
DocScrutinizer05paranoid?09:13
dm8tbr04:12:05< DocScrutinizer05> tbh I wonder why nobody has installed a *real* linux FOSS OS on N909:13
dm8tbr04:12:40< DocScrutinizer05> epen plain debian can't be worse than all that twisted stuff to work around aegis09:13
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juicemecoderus, pong13:00
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coderusjuiceme: just wanted to ask to package applauncher here :D13:16
juicemeYes, I'll do it propably today.13:19
juicemeNow I've got lots of things to do @work13:19
juicemeand also am really nervously anticipating tomorrow :) :)13:19
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sledgesoh yes ;))14:59
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DocScrutinizer05expecting what to happen?16:30
DocScrutinizer05mud catching contest to get one of the first jolla series devices?16:31
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valdur55gambitrex: Hey! When you want to see what N9QTweaks toehn then you have opportunity for that. Just open /opt/N9QTweak folder in filemanager/ terminal and start with START file.18:16
juicemeDocScrutinizer05, exactly.18:25
juicemealtough I think it will rather be freezing than muddy :)18:26
DocScrutinizer05I think they told sth about jelly18:26
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juicemereally? The kind of you have wrestling matches in...?18:27
juicemethat'll be intresting18:27
DocScrutinizer05sounded like that in that press release18:27
juicemecare to throw a link in?18:27
DocScrutinizer05and I don't think that's interesting18:27
DocScrutinizer05meh, forgot about it, didn't bookmark either18:28
DocScrutinizer05and I ragequit #jollamobile18:28
DocScrutinizer05so no idea, sorry18:28
juicemeokay... rather strange than intresting, to say really18:28
juicemehave not been on that channel18:29
DocScrutinizer05yep18:29
DocScrutinizer05I guess on jolla.com/press you might find a link18:29
juicemei'll try18:29
DocScrutinizer05I'm not excited about a party somewhere in the north, a few 1000km away from where I live18:30
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DocScrutinizer05I'd be more excited when Jolla finally got a proper wiki or whatever, to finally collect decent datasheets and specs and stuff, e.g. about the hw interface to other half18:32
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DocScrutinizer05the support infra is basically non-existent18:33
DocScrutinizer05they simply point to other projects and sites18:33
juicemeI'd imagine that gets sorted out after the launch.18:34
DocScrutinizer05and expect their users to read twitter 24/7 to not miss announcements18:34
juicemeheh, I don't do twitter18:34
DocScrutinizer05me neither18:34
juicemenot facebook18:34
DocScrutinizer05neither18:34
DocScrutinizer05so we're both out18:34
juicemethis so called social media is pest of our times18:34
juicemeIRC is enough for me18:35
DocScrutinizer05yes, and yet it's Jolla's primary communication channel for about everything18:35
fluxsoo, I dropped my n9 to water :-). suggestions other than putting it to rice which I already did18:36
fluxI suppose it's nice that it only lost SIM connectivity, it was still on when I grabbed it back..18:36
fluxtime to get disassembly videos from internet?18:37
DocScrutinizer05well, I'm out. I wasn't interested in N9 for my every-day-companion-device, due to hw design and UI design decisions that didn't meet my priorities, and I'm not interested in Jolla that much for quite the same reasons18:37
juicemeflux, you'd need to remove the battery to be sure18:37
DocScrutinizer05flux: forget rice18:37
DocScrutinizer05disassemble it *immediately* and disconnect battery18:37
juicemerice itself is no use.18:38
fluxok, I'll get the video running :). any shorter tutorial than this 22-minute dis&assembly-video? or go by the feel?18:38
DocScrutinizer05then dry it on your heating (80°C) for at least 2 weeks, better 4 weeks18:38
juicemeyes, open up, remove battery connector (it is visible under the screen, white connector)18:38
juicemeI'd first rinse it with alcohol, before drying up18:39
DocScrutinizer05yes, good plan18:39
juicemeand it needs to be something pure, not vodka18:39
DocScrutinizer0598% pure alcohol18:39
juicemeyes18:39
juicemeif you do this immediately you have hope of rescuing it18:39
DocScrutinizer05yep18:40
juicemethe problem with these "modern" devices is the non-user-removable barrery18:40
DocScrutinizer05each hoer longer under battery voltage will do more damage though, before it *thoroughly* dried18:40
juicemes/barrery/battery18:40
DocScrutinizer05hour*18:40
juicemeexactly18:40
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DocScrutinizer05it has a bright side though: you got no more backup battery that's soldered to PCB18:41
juicemetrue that18:41
DocScrutinizer05disassembling N9 isn't exactly trivial. You'll need a video of about that length18:43
DocScrutinizer05go by feel is probably no good idea18:43
juicemeyes. and for some reason people seem to break the 2 ribbon cables that go to the display easily. Never happened to me, though.18:44
DocScrutinizer05I didn't disassemble my N9 yet, I gave up on it when calculating the goal versus the perceived difficulty18:44
DocScrutinizer05since my goal been "just to have a look"18:45
juiceme:)18:45
DocScrutinizer05usually that's enough to disassemble any device. Not on N9 though18:45
fluxI've got it open18:45
fluxso the battery connector is at the middle of the bottom part?18:46
DocScrutinizer05the only other device in my life that was of same rare class that never got disassembled been my Sony Scoopman NT-118:46
fluxalmost no water is visible..18:46
DocScrutinizer05please watch the video18:46
DocScrutinizer05!18:46
juicemeyes, it is a white connector near the middle of the device18:46
juicemeyou need tweezers to remove it.18:46
fluxpush it toward the wire with tweezers?18:47
juicemeyes18:47
juicemebe careful of the 2 ribbon cables18:47
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fluxdoesn't seem to budge. do I need to lift it up at all?18:48
juicemedid you check the video?18:49
fluxwell, it's not yet at that point :)18:49
keithzgOnly problem I ever really have disassembling an N9 is re-seating the display afterwards.18:50
keithzgGranted, most of the time that's because the replacement displays never quite fit the same :(18:50
fluxok, now I see, lifting should do the trick18:50
fluxgreat, first plastic tweezers clipped18:51
juicemewhen you get the battery connector off, then you are not that hurry any more, the worst corrosive effect slows down a lot18:51
juicemeafter that you can concentrate on washing/drying the device. and by washing I do not mean water, you need the 98% alcohol18:52
fluxpouring alcohol over?18:53
fluxI have some isopropyl alcohol18:54
juicemeyes18:54
DocScrutinizer05iso should work18:54
juicemeit might be ok18:54
fluxdoesn't matter the battery is still in there?18:55
DocScrutinizer05as long as it's 98% or better18:55
DocScrutinizer05hmm18:55
fluxI think it was as pure as it gets, but the container has been opened a few times18:55
DocScrutinizer05maybe wait til you seen the whole video and disassembled the device and removed speakers and mic18:55
DocScrutinizer05if the containes wasn't open too long then doesn't matter18:56
DocScrutinizer05the pint is oure alcohol is pretty hygroscopic18:56
juicemeyes, that's better. I don't think the battery is a problem as it is hermetically closed AFAIK18:56
DocScrutinizer05point*18:56
DocScrutinizer05I'd not bet on that18:56
DocScrutinizer05(battery sealed)18:56
DocScrutinizer05though, this type prolly is18:57
DocScrutinizer05no prot circuit I guess18:57
DocScrutinizer05anyway you probably better rinse the bare PCB, not the entire case incl electronic parts18:58
DocScrutinizer05speakers even might break from rinsing them with alcohol18:58
DocScrutinizer05you should just dry them carefully and thoroughly (and again, that means 4 weeks on the heating)18:59
juicemeI have not removed the PCB on my device, but I have heard people saying that the screws are pretty tight and it is easy to damage them if opening with wrong tool.19:00
DocScrutinizer05figure a normal water bottle sitting open - how long will it take for the water to completely evaporate19:00
fluxthe first liquid location was under the battery, good I removed it :)19:00
DocScrutinizer05if you have, use a vacuum cleaner to remove water19:01
juicemei'd imagine gently tapping with tissue like toilet paper would work well to remove most of the water19:01
DocScrutinizer05yes, next best after small vacuum cleaner19:02
juicemethe problem is the water you do not see, which gets sucked under the BGA chips by capillary action19:02
DocScrutinizer05don't shake the device19:02
DocScrutinizer05exactly19:02
DocScrutinizer05and it takes loooong to vanish19:03
juicemethe alcohol-rinse is to get that off from under the chips19:03
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DocScrutinizer05alcohol is not as corrosive and evaporates faster19:04
DocScrutinizer05and non conductive19:04
DocScrutinizer05and again: do *NOT* 2test" the device before you dried it for a really long time!19:06
juicemeDocScrutinizer05, just got mail from Win7Mac, where he explains the current election status19:07
DocScrutinizer05mhm19:07
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juicemeI'm afraid I'll have to beg you to reconsider19:07
DocScrutinizer05reconsider what?19:07
juicemesince there's only 3 candidates19:08
juicemeWell, you half-volunteered to re-run, in these coircumstances, right?19:08
juicemeor that is what I understood.19:08
DocScrutinizer05only if at least one of the candidates shows that it's not again me to take care of everything like tracking mailing lists, timelines, whatnot else19:09
juicemeSo I am asking you to volunteer so we may have enough candidates19:09
juicemeYes, I understand you have invested massive amount of your time into it19:10
juicemeI am willing to do my part, but of coulse I cannot really know what I am sticking my head into, never been there19:11
DocScrutinizer05so you applied already?19:11
juicemeyes19:11
DocScrutinizer05ok, send a mail to ML nominating me19:11
DocScrutinizer05cc to my mail addr19:11
juicemethank you, I'll do that19:12
juicemesaid mail address being..? (send me a private msg, no need advertising it here)19:12
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DocScrutinizer05joerg at openmoko org19:13
juicemeah, ok19:13
DocScrutinizer05it's pretty public19:13
juicemeso is mine :)19:13
juicemeI've got such a nice spamfilters there I really rarely get anything even as my mail address is everywhere... just some folks are pretty secretive of theirs.19:14
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DocScrutinizer05most spam right now comes in on council mail account ;-P19:15
DocScrutinizer05some 2..5 per day19:15
DocScrutinizer05warfare doing a great job, with xing infra backing it up19:15
juicemeyes, that's not too bad a ratio.19:16
DocScrutinizer05well, given there's usuall max one true mail per week on average...19:17
juiceme:)19:17
valdur55I found three used N900-s from Germandia. ( Estonian second hand mobiles reseller and fixer ) And price was 150€19:17
DocScrutinizer05for one or all trhee?19:17
valdur55Per phone.19:18
DocScrutinizer05quite pricey for second-hand19:18
valdur55wops. or it was N95019:18
DocScrutinizer05HAHA19:18
valdur55i don't remember. give me some time...19:18
juicemevaldur55, easy to confuse those :) :)19:19
DocScrutinizer05yeah, since one goes for 100 the other for 150019:19
valdur55Yea. N95019:19
DocScrutinizer05N950 for 150???19:19
DocScrutinizer05working condition?19:19
DocScrutinizer05get them!19:20
fluxso now that the process is complete, I should apply heat?19:20
juicemewell, that's what they are worth, really. It's olny the crazy collectors who drive up the prize...19:20
DocScrutinizer05moderate heat19:20
DocScrutinizer05juiceme: indeed19:20
DocScrutinizer05but how much worth is a tiny plastic figure?19:20
DocScrutinizer05flux: you say you already competely disassembled and rinsed it?19:21
fluxdocscrutinizer05, yes19:22
fluxthough should I rinse it more thoroughly?19:22
DocScrutinizer05wow, you#re pretty fast19:22
DocScrutinizer05yes, I'd rinse it ~30min19:22
valdur55Damn.. i am confused... they might be 950 or 900 ...19:22
fluxby 30 min mark my alcohol has probably evaporated :)19:22
DocScrutinizer05valdur55: or chineses mockups19:22
juicemevaldur55, in reality they look quite different, if you see pictures19:23
DocScrutinizer05flux:  that#s OK19:23
DocScrutinizer05flux: btw you might want to take a little bit of care about the microphones19:24
DocScrutinizer05afaik they are the only components on PCB that might take some fluid since they have an aperture19:25
valdur55Ok. looked some confirmed pic from gmsarena. They were N950 because of this logo placement.19:25
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DocScrutinizer05afk19:26
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fluxwell, enough rescuing of a company phone while waiting for jolla ;-). but I put it to a convection oven at ~6019:33
fluxcan't help thinking the repairing might have finished the deal, as there was not much that water visible inside the device in the first place :)19:35
juiceme:)19:35
fluxdocscrutinizer05, you were saying I should leave it to oven for two weeks?-o or was that without oven19:35
DocScrutinizer05on heater, not oven19:36
juiceme2 wees in oven might be too much19:36
fluxhmm, so a car heater might be better19:36
juicemebut to get it absolutely dry it needs to be warm19:36
DocScrutinizer05some warm place like fan of your PC or heating or on a lamp or TV or whatever19:36
DocScrutinizer05max 80°C19:37
juicemehowever, if you really throughly rinsed it with alcohol/isopropanol it dries quicker than with water19:37
juicemeyes19:37
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fluxhmm, I wonder if I have a place like that.. inside my pc or on top of my htpc maybe :)19:37
fluxI'll take some measurements to ensure that the oven doesn't exceed the temperature and after this evening find some better place19:38
DocScrutinizer05if it's 45° or 60° that's also fine. Just don't heat it too much as it may break19:38
DocScrutinizer05yes19:39
DocScrutinizer05increased temperature helps a lot to shorten the drying, since a) liquid evaporates faster, and b) air gets less relative humidity by heating it up19:40
DocScrutinizer05but by no means exceed 80°, not even temporarily or on a spot19:41
DocScrutinizer05thus radiation heat is evil19:42
DocScrutinizer05warm air is better19:42
DocScrutinizer05you never can tell how warm each surface gets when placing it e.g. under a lamp or similar radiation heater19:42
DocScrutinizer05high time to run for shopping - bbl o/19:43
fluxit's a convection oven19:45
fluxthermopair says 48 degrees19:46
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DocScrutinizer05sounds perfect19:46
fluxthanks for help :)19:47
fluxand have nice shopping19:47
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gambitrexvaldur55: thanks for the tip!21:05
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valdur55gambitrex: no problem.. :) N9Qtweak is made of shell scripts.22:23
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juicemecoderus, ping23:54
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