| DocScrutinizer05 | but I feel like it's a sort of ... special, and not for sale | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| Jonni | my wife and wife's sister are using N950's as daily phone currently | 00:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang | 00:01 |
| * Aard is using a jolla as daily phone currently ;) | 00:01 | |
| Jonni | Already had to change broken displays there for 3 times :), they usually just drop the devices from 20cm hight | 00:03 |
| Jonni | n950's displays were quite fragile | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | wut? change N950 display? where from you get the spares? | 00:04 |
| Jonni | I used to have a pile ;) | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hah | 00:04 |
| Jonni | I still have one or two left :) | 00:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you don't happen to know any part number we could google for? | 00:05 |
| Jonni | they were so customs that there is no part numbers anywhere. Thats a dead hardware. | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | indeed | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LCD manufs are awesome regarding custom made built to specs low volumes | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | you wouldn't think you actually can get such low batch volumes | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | some start for a few 100s | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | units | 00:07 |
| azeem | my N9 half-died the other day (no longer works with wall chargers, only charging via notebook/usb-hub), so now I have to see whether it'll last till Jollas are around for a good price or I might have to get an Android | 00:07 |
| azeem | currently sending back the second Nexus 4 as the N9 seems to keep living for a bit longer | 00:08 |
| Aard | hey azeem :) | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ooooh apropos N9, any of you insiders knows where from Nokia got that 1GB RAM POP chip? | 00:08 |
| azeem | Aard: heya! | 00:08 |
| Aard | pretty small world :) | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually "apropos N9 and custom made" | 00:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | 1GB RAM POP doesn't even "exist", according to aunt google, Samsung, Hynix et al | 00:09 |
| azeem | what's a POP chip? | 00:10 |
| azeem | doesn't the N9 have 1GB RAM anywa? | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Package On Package | 00:10 |
| azeem | anyway* | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | piggyback chip on top of CPU | 00:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, that's exactly the point: N9 has | 00:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | has a non-existent chip | 00:11 |
| Aard | azeem: what's "a good price" for you? | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I already pondered to buy used or broken N9s just to recover the POP chips | 00:12 |
| Jonni | samsung was happy to provide those :) | 00:13 |
| azeem | Aard: so far I bought my N900 and N9 on ebay, though I admit the 400 EUR which have been speculated aren't bad | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hah | 00:13 |
| Aard | azeem: 'speculated'? we gave that number on our webpage :) | 00:14 |
| azeem | but the Nexus 4 I am returning was 250 EUR due to the sale | 00:14 |
| azeem | Aard: on the part where it says "scroll down"? | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I guess I have to actually disassemble my N9 finally. Instead of relying on the PCB photos in the schematics | 00:14 |
| Aard | I personally can't stand the android ui at all. I'd rather go back to a classic palm treo than go for an android phone | 00:15 |
| Aard | azeem: sorry for that, we engineers didn't do the webpage :p | 00:15 |
| azeem | Aard: ok, now I found out you have to use cursor keys | 00:15 |
| azeem | anyway, I didn't see it on the webpage so wasn't sure it was official | 00:15 |
| azeem | I actually like my Nexus 7 tablet | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jonni: or do you maybe even know the part number? | 00:16 |
| Aard | in the presales campaign we said 399 | 00:16 |
| azeem | what really bugs me is how I have to check Facebook, Twitter, G+ etc. seperately | 00:16 |
| Aard | navigation in the os and in apps in android is annoying (and parts are now getting annoying on n9 as well, after using jolla as main phone) | 00:17 |
| azeem | heh | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jonni: would save me from the tedious disassembly of my N9 to chack the *actual* writing on that POP chip, since the one in schamtics doesn't look like Samsung | 00:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check, even | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and schematics | 00:19 |
| Jonni | I think that I have one disassembled N9 in work, so I can check on monday | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with an actual part number I *might* be able to find soare parts in HK | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) great! | 00:20 |
| Jonni | there are also some devices with non-Samsung memory, but only few of those were sold to consumers | 00:20 |
| Jonni | so there were 2 different memory supliers | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: but one of them been used for the photo in Nokia's schematics | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and that one has a manuf logo I never seen and wasn't even able to find out who it is | 00:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2013/09/21/plasma-desktopiS3743.png | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (e1) whatever | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the part number is completely unknown | 00:24 |
| Jonni | DocScrutinizer05: It was Numonyx | 00:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | mhm | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thanks | 00:24 |
| Jonni | Micron bought Numonyx, so nowadays its Micron. | 00:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | HAH, and micron doesn't offer *any* 1GB RAM POP | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | custom build? | 00:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | like e.g LP5523 been | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dinner time o/ | 00:33 |
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| Hurrian | DocScrutinizer05: isn't samsung the /other/ supplier of OneNANDs? | 01:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yes | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | samsung, microsemi, micron, elpide, hynix | 02:30 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | none of them lists >512MB LPDDR RAM (+NAND) cbp 168p POP | 02:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | possibly since you need 3 chips for 2*RAM + 1*NAND when you want to go >512MB, the addr space of OMAP3 is limited to 512MB RAM but with 2 independant ChipSelect | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so I guess when you want 1GB RAM you need to use 2 banks aka dies | 02:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | o.O | 02:35 |
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| juiceme | DocScrutinizer05, if it's custom made you just won't find it anywhere. | 02:39 |
| juiceme | might be custom made with 2 dies, or a special die never released anywhere :) | 02:39 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, that's what I'm concerned about | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | thus: buy old N9, desolder SoC ;-P | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or "build my own POP chip", nothing a tiny PCB couldn't do ;-) | 03:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but I boggle from the latter for the massive debugging effort it implies, and from the former for the increased cost and hassle and reduced reliability of re-used chips | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | AM/DM335x has 8Gb addr space, but ... | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oops -DM | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or go for OMAP35xx CBB: >>DRAM - PoP or discrete. All SDRC signals are on both top and bottom balls<< | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | but ... | 03:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer05 | juiceme: then OTOH you'd think that about every useful custom made chip, as long as slightly standard and general purpose, will eventually get publicly available | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | heck, even BB5 chipset been available as "Nokia spareparts surplus" for a certain period of time | 03:33 |
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| michael_ | thp, ping | 16:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ZogG_laptop, do you want a copy editing on the Jolla post? | 18:55 |
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| ZogG_laptop | GeneralAntilles: copy on what? | 20:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sfiet_Konstantin: ping | 20:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: pong | 20:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ZogG_laptop, on your blog post about Jolla on Tumblr. | 20:33 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Sfiet_Konstantin: here | 20:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | GeneralAntilles: you want to copy it or you made more readable/proper copy? | 20:45 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: so ? | 20:46 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Sfiet_Konstantin: lemme open it in fron ot my eyes | 20:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | roadmap | 20:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't ask for full details | 20:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | but at least some info on support, future plans | 20:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sfiet_Konstantin: on phone | 20:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: as I said, they don't know what will happen in 3 month | 20:52 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | how would you expect them to tell about the support in "long term" | 20:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | they said it will be supported | 20:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but it is more like vague promise than something to be sure | 20:52 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and other manufacturers are the same so ... no miracle here | 20:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | "it will be supported" is nothing | 20:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | N9 was "it will be supported" and actually still(was it till 2014 or 2015 | 20:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | they said we know and we do different, so how is it different? | 20:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | same story all over again | 20:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | at least point roadmap the plan, do not promise to be "unlike" tell your plans - more useful | 20:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | next | 20:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | they said it would be different from Nokia this time and real linux and opensource (at first i know they said that UI MIGHT be oopensourced too) | 21:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | now we get MEr and Nemo wh oare opensource doesn't matter what | 21:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | and sailfish os on to | 21:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | top | 21:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | so they actually added sailfish UX, added android and old spec HW | 21:01 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | tell plans implies that they have and want to share them | 21:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | they still din;t share full secs what plans they want to share? | 21:01 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | maybe they don't, or maybe there is buisness preventing them to share | 21:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | they are not my classmate pal from age 12 so i trust him. | 21:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | what is - "they want" .... | 21:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | is it child game" i want to tell bt i can't "... | 21:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | ? | 21:02 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | please explain yourself | 21:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | those maybes dont help | 21:02 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | I don't understand | 21:02 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | They never said that they would share a plan | 21:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | the point is simple after all to gain user is simple | 21:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | to keep user is hard | 21:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | to get user back is hardest | 21:03 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | they said that they are unlike. At least in term of UI it is the case | 21:03 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: +1, +2, +3 indeed | 21:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | adn they don't get it that they have one shot | 21:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | UI is nothing | 21:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | UI is important when everythingelse is set | 21:03 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | do you mean that (In your opinion) that they are still doing the Nokia style | 21:03 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | like failing in saying their goal | 21:03 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | etc. | 21:03 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and not supporting stuff ? | 21:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's like telling i have good interier in my shitty appartment at garbage at the end of the city area :) | 21:04 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: their main selling point is UI | 21:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sfiet_Konstantin: it's not only Nokia style, it's big companies and thinking style | 21:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's mostly not unlike | 21:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | i supprted maemo and harmattan not only because of phone | 21:04 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: detail again the big companies thinking ? | 21:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | but idea | 21:04 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | I have a lot of trouble in following (sorry) | 21:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | linux is not about opensource | 21:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | the big company thinking is the busness plan is the same as all other giant companies | 21:05 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | alright: you share source and plan | 21:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | if you pay attention to startups on kickstart and indie devs - today they raise more money from home with different business models | 21:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | not asking for source | 21:06 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | easy for samsung to take the source and release 1 month earlier | 21:06 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | (I'm doing an extrême example) | 21:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | asking at least to what wait for | 21:06 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | in my opinion, they have to keep their buisness stuff done. After release, we can discuss again | 21:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | maybe they just say - we'll make phone to get customers, ditch it in 2 months as with new money will get new phone | 21:06 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: example about the different busness models for indies | 21:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | and than support it | 21:07 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: eh | 21:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | and i don't want to be first one rat to be used | 21:07 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: no, they don't have money to build a newer phone with the income of the first | 21:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | as at nokia it was always - next phone would be the good one | 21:07 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | they need to make money and grow before even being able to build a new phone | 21:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sfiet_Konstantin: i don't know what they have or not, i don;t know literally nothing | 21:07 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: you are free not to buy the first phone | 21:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | i dont even know what is other half | 21:08 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: one thing they don't have: money | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't know if i need to buy those for first phone and throw away as there would be no compatability | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | let's say like that | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | any company that wants moeny | 21:08 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: me neither. And for sure, there won't be kbd other half: they don't have money to make | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | come to someone and shows plan | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | and people decide to support or not | 21:08 |
| ZogG_laptop | they are startup we are contributing with moeny | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's their interest to excite us | 21:09 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | indeed | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | the "excitment" of release is something that huge company can do | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | as they can release few lines | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | high tech | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | low tech | 21:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | they can afford it | 21:10 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | yep | 21:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | while jolla CAN't use this kind of business model | 21:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don''t get how they and people don't see it:) | 21:10 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | they have one phone that's all | 21:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | they can't afford it | 21:10 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | indeed | 21:10 |
| ZogG_laptop | so if they know their weak points they at least need to tell straight about them | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | covering things doesn't help | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | and this is big company thinking | 21:11 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | what do you mean covering thing ? | 21:11 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | what do you want to know | 21:11 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | I take it simple | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | that compny is mashine and there is no human talk at the line of eyes | 21:11 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | what they don't announce is what they don't know | 21:11 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | they don't know about what will be the other half and if there will be compatibilityu | 21:11 |
| ZogG_laptop | if someone would come to me and tell me, listen i failed here, but i need your understanding and help, i would get it | 21:11 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | so they don't tell anything about it | 21:11 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | same with update and maintenance | 21:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | but if i tell you that phone of 2011 had better screen for same price and co-founder tells me that Mozart use only few notes - i don't know how to get it | 21:12 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | they don't know the cost, so they don't tell anything about it | 21:12 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: I raise you the fact that a phone is not a bunch of specs | 21:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | again | 21:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and again | 21:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | and again | 21:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | believe me they know fuuture step if they do succeed | 21:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: they don't know if they will succed | 21:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | if they dont know what they are doing so why to tell " know we know how to do it right" | 21:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | they know about how to maximize the chance | 21:13 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | nothing else | 21:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | so it's simple scam in your words? | 21:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | to make moen as far as you can | 21:14 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | what scam, what words ? | 21:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | if they dont know but they still promise | 21:14 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | just look at Jolla, and see if it is a company that will make money just for profitability and ditch community | 21:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | if they tel lthey are revolution and still not sure what would release | 21:14 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Jolla needs community to do some work, like evangelist | 21:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | those are lies | 21:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | simple like that | 21:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | you can tell me " yeah you know it's difficult... and that and this" but facts are facts | 21:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but Jolla surely don't need people to tell them the specs they need. Especially that negociating for a given price some specs is SUPER HARD | 21:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | 2 + 2 = 4 | 21:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | ZogG_laptop, what I mean is do you want me to review the post for typos and basic grammar and provide you with a diff of fixes? | 21:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | they might not know the whole details, but know the broad idea | 21:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | the revolution is the OS, and the other half | 21:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | not in 1984 version after all, and maybe this is the point here that after all they do not make linux phone for community but use community and linux to profit themselves | 21:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | the exact shape of the other half is not known | 21:15 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but they know the concept | 21:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | GeneralAntilles: would be nice. Thanks :) did you like it? what do you think? | 21:16 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: a company needs profit | 21:16 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | however, you can acheve profit by different ways | 21:16 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | community is nice | 21:16 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | but community is NOT HELPING by bitching all the time about specs | 21:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | Sfiet_Konstantin: but that is only thing that is innovation. UX that i still don't think would be mor usefull than N9. as far as i saw it it's more difficult and illogical | 21:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | because bitching about specs do not help Jolla to negociate with Qualcomm or Samsung the latest CPU or screen | 21:17 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: you are free not to buy the phone if you don't like the UI, indeed. The UI is strange at first sight but quite nice. Once again, it is about experiencing it | 21:17 |
| ZogG_laptop | for exmple i saw wallpaper change with swype from lockscreen. as it's the most used feature when u need most used things from lokscreen(fast access to) | 21:18 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | What I'm trying to say is feedback is important. Jolla is bad at communication, but they have their buisness and they might make something correct for them and the community, so stay calm and carry on | 21:18 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: what if it was not just wallpaper ? | 21:18 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | (hint) | 21:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | still | 21:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's theme | 21:18 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | what if it is more than theme ? | 21:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | doesnt't matrer | 21:19 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | what if your application layout, your ringtone, the mode you have and the stuff you enable (wifi, 3G, GPS etc) | 21:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think camera. speeddials annd thousands of things are more important than whatever it can be :) | 21:19 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | everything was united in this background thing ? | 21:19 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: camera ? Pull from top, 2 times, you have it | 21:19 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | it is another fast access, and you don't even need to do two gesture, it is pull, release | 21:20 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | same for phone | 21:20 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | 3 ticks | 21:20 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | 4 ticks, settings | 21:20 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | 1 tick, settings with access to "switches" | 21:20 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | bbl, need to cook | 21:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | pulley is wierd as well | 21:20 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | we have to discuss more :) | 21:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | as you can pull too much or opposite | 21:20 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: weired at first | 21:20 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: vibra, sound feedback | 21:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | and if menu is long you would need to use two fingers to scroll | 21:21 |
| Morpog_PC | pulley is sensational | 21:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: for long menu, you have a point | 21:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | one to stop so u can bring first to top of screen | 21:21 |
| Morpog_PC | i can imagine myself doing most of stuff on this phone one handed | 21:21 |
| ZogG_laptop | but again does UX and low specs worth it? | 21:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: open questipon | 21:21 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | answer depends on you | 21:22 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | for me, it worth it, but you are free not to buy it | 21:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | im not | 21:22 |
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| ZogG_laptop | i use 100 euros | 21:22 |
| ZogG_laptop | i can't throw them for nothing | 21:22 |
| Morpog_PC | ZogG_laptop, they are not samsung, they are not apple, they are not HTC, they are not even oppo or huawei | 21:22 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | ZogG_laptop: you can sell it to someone else | 21:22 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | Morpog_PC: read his article, read mine as a reply to his | 21:23 |
| Morpog_PC | even HTC got refused to use Snapdragon 800 in their HTC One Max, because they are too small nowadays | 21:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | though after cofounder told that i was told to see things like that and use empty phone systems. it feels not nice :) | 21:23 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Morpog_PC: feel free to reply again on a formatted matter on a blog | 21:23 |
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| Sfiet_Konstantin | he have some points | 21:23 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: SO WHAT? | 21:23 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | http://zogg.tumblr.com/post/61889695068/why-do-i-care-a-lot-about-jolla | 21:23 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | https://sfietkonstantin.wordpress.com/2013/09/22/a-reply-to-why-do-i-care-a-lot-about/ | 21:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: do they need a hug or cookie? | 21:23 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Morpog_PC: ^ | 21:23 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | bbl | 21:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ZogG_laptop, thanks for articulating it. It's been a frustrating wait. | 21:24 |
| Morpog_PC | Sfiet_Konstantin, I stopped reading his after a few sentences, too much jumps for m brain in logic | 21:24 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: very nice | 21:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: but i'm here | 21:25 |
| Morpog_PC | sorry ZogG_laptop | 21:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hey, at least people care enough to comment. | 21:25 |
| Sfiet_Konstantin | Morpog_PC: read mine then | 21:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | so if you don;t understand me it can be your lost as well, so be at least polite | 21:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | thank you | 21:25 |
| Morpog_PC | Sfiet_Konstantin, when I got time :) | 21:25 |
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| ZogG_laptop | GeneralAntilles: i'm not good at words. But i know most people do have the same feeling and i tried to summirize it. :( | 21:26 |
| Morpog_PC | I just don't get the spec wars. I wouldn't have thought that it would be coming from maemo community. I would have thought it from android or apple users. | 21:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: simple. if you use linux, it doesn't mean you wouldn't like new technology | 21:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | otherwise why don't you buy gta04 | 21:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | use CLI to call | 21:27 |
| Morpog_PC | ZogG_laptop, just because I say it was too illogical for me to read doesn't mean it's a personal attack. It's called tl;dr in internet speech. | 21:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | and watch movies in ascii code ( there is libcaca and you cna compile mplayer with support of it) | 21:28 |
| Aard | ZogG_laptop: one comment about the 'opensource' and 'nemo' bit. when we picked up nemo it wasn't very alive. it still is is not that active, but fortunately things picked up the last months -- which was possible because we do almost everything that's not directly ui in the open in nemo, so that nemo nowadays is quite a nice base where you 'just' need to pop a ui on top | 21:28 |
| Morpog_PC | If I was after specs, I wouldn't have bought a N9 back then. | 21:28 |
| Aard | and even for the ui-enablers lot's of stuff comes from us there | 21:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: i know it was not illogical and i have problems, and as it's painful topic for me i dont take it serious, but you added the "he was..." like i'm not here. | 21:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | that what added to whole feeling not pleasent thing | 21:29 |
| Morpog_PC | ZogG_laptop, maybe when I got some time and rest I will try to reread it. | 21:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | Aard: it would be fully logical that you would give back to the community and opensource you use. | 21:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | even apple send patches once in a while | 21:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | afaik CUPs is apple thing | 21:30 |
| Aard | ZogG_laptop: we're far, far away from 'giving back to community we use' | 21:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | Aard: but again it's not about code man. | 21:31 |
| ZogG_laptop | It's about openess. plans. | 21:31 |
| Morpog_PC | ZogG_laptop, they are giving back very much to nemomobile, without them Nemomobile would be stuck in stoneage. | 21:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | if you would tell me now, look, we are trying best and it's hard and we might not succeed but if we do we would try to provide that this and that and if you support us at the biggining it would bring you those advant. or disadvant. | 21:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | i would get it | 21:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: i think the most important thing they gave to Nemo is not code but actully interest in it | 21:33 |
| Morpog_PC | well, no code no interest | 21:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol | 21:34 |
| Morpog_PC | I haven't seen much gain of external contributors to nemo | 21:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think faenil made a lot of work for one man as well. | 21:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | they use it as well it's common interest for them as well | 21:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | and i don;t say they are bad | 21:35 |
| Morpog_PC | sure, but without code from Jolla to base on he wouldn't have been able to do his work in such a short time | 21:35 |
| Aard | ZogG_laptop: I'm still pretty disappointed by the level of interest in nemo, and I've been going around for ages now telling people that we'd like contributors there, and that I'll use my spare time getting people started there (for example, for making sure that sailfish will work on n9 once released). not much happened | 21:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | again opensource is not only code | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't think the marketing approach is helping much with the old Maemo people. | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Once bitten, twice shy, etc. | 21:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | the most important why poeple do it and why them open,, idealogical princpals and reasons moving from inside :) | 21:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Aard: did you try on TMO with exact same phrasing? | 21:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | "(for example, for making sure that sailfish will work on n9 once released) | 21:37 |
| Morpog_PC | I haven't seen much interest on nemomobile in TMO | 21:37 |
| Aard | ZogG_laptop: not myself (I don't have tmo account), but somebody started a thread there quoting me trying to get interest in nemo | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's tough to get people interested in abstract things. | 21:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | because maemo people got their own place and N9 is dead and Jolla didn;t get TMO as their child. but it's okay. i think the problem is that people tired of those "prove of concepts" of running and trying. | 21:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | with all the cool of real linux on phone | 21:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | support is support | 21:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | and they want to have good specs | 21:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | latest apps | 21:39 |
| Aard | GeneralAntilles: it's not _that_ abstract. for n9 -- we started kernel upgrade, and we have all the remaining tasks in nemo bugzilla | 21:39 |
| Morpog_PC | well GeneralAntilles UI work is not that abstract | 21:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | Aard: if you not interested to make even account yo excpect people to get interest ... | 21:40 |
| Morpog_PC | and UI work is one of the top points being worked on atm | 21:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | they want phone to work | 21:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | i love linux and i'm old user | 21:40 |
| Aard | ZogG_laptop: tmo is not the only source of developers. I don't have much connection to tmo itself for historical reasons | 21:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | i use source based one | 21:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | and i would even say that systemd and stuff like that is too fancy and useless | 21:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | but people are tired to run after support, where they need to compile new kernel so the phone may call | 21:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | so specs are important | 21:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | UX is important | 21:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | support is important | 21:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | i dislike iphone | 21:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | but it's good phone that does exactly what is promised | 21:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | where you tell you waht you get and you get it | 21:42 |
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| ZogG_laptop | i do;t like or use it as i disagree with wy that i buy hw that doesn't belong to me | 21:43 |
| Morpog_PC | did ypu really had the expectation to get an iphone like experience from Jolla? | 21:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | my point is being geeky, open, hacky doesn't mean lack of other things | 21:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | that's why N900 ws pocket pc with phone functions | 21:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: it's not my point | 21:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Aard, my point being, it's not that can easily be installed and used. | 21:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: i dont expect iphone or want android otherwise i wouldnt care about a jolla | 21:44 |
| ZogG_laptop | GeneralAntilles: it can be installed and it cant be used as everyday phone | 21:45 |
| Morpog_PC | for me it sounds that you want an iphone that has the hacking abilities of a N900 | 21:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | iphone has most hacking abilities of N900 :) | 21:45 |
| Morpog_PC | well, out of the box | 21:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | nope and nope | 21:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | my point is that "but it's eal linux" is not excuse for using 3 years old screen when shitty chinise 100$ phones have 1080p screens :) | 21:46 |
| Morpog_PC | so after all it's still spec wars | 21:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | or 1GB RAM can be tricky if it can block getting futher updates or opposite prevent from future sw updates with new techs for backward compatability | 21:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not a war | 21:48 |
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| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: ok, if i sell you nokia 3310 with other half and linux. would you buy it? | 21:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | or do you use modem at home for internet> | 21:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | ? | 21:48 |
| Morpog_PC | thats not comparable | 21:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | it is | 21:48 |
| Morpog_PC | let's compare it with N9 | 21:48 |
| Morpog_PC | It was clearly outdated the day it got unveiled | 21:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | N9 was outdated and was released few yers ago | 21:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | it laggs sometimes | 21:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | and got stuck few times | 21:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | it gets warm sometimes | 21:49 |
| Aard | ZogG_laptop: 1gb ram just means that for future upgrades there might be restrictions as in '9 apps running is hard limit, additional running apps will be swapped out'. it does not prevent upgrades | 21:49 |
| Aard | (and we're doing a bit better on memory usage side than harmattan ;)) | 21:49 |
| Morpog_PC | i bought N9 because of UI/UX and not because of it's old Cortex A8 single core | 21:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | Aard: so basically you telling me that 1 GB is enuf for few apps, and on other hand you telling me you have real miltitasking? | 21:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | that iphone has real multitasking | 21:50 |
| Morpog_PC | N9's 854x480 pentile amoled also wasn't high end back then | 21:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | they just have limit for one app | 21:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | but its is real one :) | 21:50 |
| Morpog_PC | and N9 had a supreme price. 250€ higher than Jolla's device | 21:51 |
| Aard | ZogG_laptop: I said 'for future upgrades', taking your complaint that future software versions might eat more ram. | 21:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: and that's the reason i'm now pissed off, exactly coz i had enuf of getting old hw phones | 21:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | Aard: you see you are still company | 21:52 |
| Morpog_PC | ZogG_laptop, still this is a small startup. Your expectations are too high I guess. | 21:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | and you would agree that some decisions are made despite doesn't matter what | 21:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | o let's take of bb10 on playbook example | 21:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | they promised | 21:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | they tired | 21:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | they said no go | 21:52 |
| Morpog_PC | thats just an excuse, Mfarotusino got BB10 running on playbook | 21:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: exactly, it;s startup and price is too high for excpectation they can provide to people :) | 21:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | there are two sides of coin | 21:53 |
| Morpog_PC | well, you don't even know final price yet ZogG_laptop | 21:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: runnig OS is not fully functional one. And he didn;t not exactly. The point is that no one promise the same happens to you | 21:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | i bought expensive N9 just a while ago | 21:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | why would you think i can afford to buy every few months a phone? | 21:55 |
| Morpog_PC | erm, my N9 is amlmost 2 years old now | 21:55 |
| Morpog_PC | and I still like it more then every android device I touched from friends/family | 21:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | 2 years is not that a lot :0 | 21:55 |
| Morpog_PC | well, I change my phone every 2 to 3 years | 21:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | i would keep using n900 till now if not broken usb | 21:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: good for you. | 21:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | it ws once in 5 years now it's once in 2 than it's once in few months | 21:56 |
| Morpog_PC | and what would you do with an android device where you are stuck after 1 or 2 updates? Rely on roms? | 21:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | Morpog_PC: i didn't buy one but i would buy nexus with updates from google | 21:57 |
| Aard | ZogG_laptop: changing phones every 2 years with contract extensions is pretty common in germany and some other countries | 21:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | or expesive one with high tech hw that would keep it few years | 21:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | and again you dont't like comparing with androind you don''t like it | 21:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | but still you compare with their business model | 21:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | maybe not only spec wars and java eating ram is bad but all this switching devices and support | 21:58 |
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| Morpog_ | Aard, yeah, but I don't. I buy them off contract. | 21:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | Aard: here we hhave only shitty once at contracter :( and others are 2-3 times price than real one from local shops without proper support | 22:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | we don't have samsung here, we don;t have sony or even nokia here :) | 22:00 |
| Aard | where is 'here'? | 22:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | they work with 2-3 cellular companies or somebody buy rights to bring them here and give shitty support | 22:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | Aard: Israel | 22:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's funny that so many tech stuff was made here and still it all goes for out of country while all the prices and tech here is shitty :) | 22:01 |
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| ZogG_laptop | GeneralAntilles: btw i have bad news man | 22:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | I talk to Bill the meta watch guy | 22:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | :( | 22:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | he dislike RIM :) | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, he's said so before | 22:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | Bill Geiser - check @billg on twitter | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | They tried during BB7 days | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, he follows me. | 22:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | all i wanted is bluetooth compatability | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | (or did, last time I checked) | 22:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | i would try to write app myself | 22:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | lol | 22:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | he does? :) | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's the issue with Bluetooth? | 22:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | the stack sf or hw is nt compatibale with blckberry | 22:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | i mean bluetooth 4.0 | 22:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | i can connect thru SPP and use old way but then it's stupid to have 2 BLE devices not using that technology | 22:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'll try to ping on crackberry | 22:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | and blackkbery support | 22:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, as long as it works | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't let it roadblock you. | 22:12 |
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| ZogG_laptop | GeneralAntilles: not sure if try to conntact blackberyy now or use old tech :( | 22:21 |
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