IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2013-09-22

DocScrutinizer05but I feel like it's a sort of ... special, and not for sale00:00
*** trigpoint_n9____ has quit IRC00:00
Jonnimy wife and wife's sister are using N950's as daily phone currently00:00
* Aard is using a jolla as daily phone currently ;)00:01
JonniAlready had to change broken displays there for 3 times :), they usually just drop the devices from 20cm hight00:03
Jonnin950's displays were quite fragile00:03
DocScrutinizer05wut? change N950 display? where from you get the spares?00:04
JonniI used to have a pile ;)00:04
JonniI still have one or two left :)00:04
DocScrutinizer05and you don't happen to know any part number we could google for?00:05
Jonnithey were so customs that there is no part numbers anywhere. Thats a dead hardware.00:05
DocScrutinizer05LCD manufs are awesome regarding custom made built to specs low volumes00:06
DocScrutinizer05you wouldn't think you actually can get such low batch volumes00:06
DocScrutinizer05some start for a few 100s00:07
azeemmy N9 half-died the other day (no longer works with wall chargers, only charging via notebook/usb-hub), so now I have to see whether it'll last till Jollas are around for a good price or I might have to get an Android00:07
azeemcurrently sending back the second Nexus 4 as the N9 seems to keep living for a bit longer00:08
Aardhey azeem :)00:08
DocScrutinizer05ooooh apropos N9, any of you insiders knows where from Nokia got that 1GB RAM POP chip?00:08
azeemAard: heya!00:08
Aardpretty small world :)00:08
DocScrutinizer05actually "apropos N9 and custom made"00:09
*** ajalkane has joined #harmattan00:09
DocScrutinizer051GB RAM POP doesn't even "exist", according to aunt google, Samsung, Hynix et al00:09
azeemwhat's a POP chip?00:10
azeemdoesn't the N9 have 1GB RAM anywa?00:10
DocScrutinizer05Package On Package00:10
DocScrutinizer05piggyback chip on top of CPU00:10
DocScrutinizer05and yes, that's exactly the point: N9 has00:11
DocScrutinizer05has a non-existent chip00:11
Aardazeem: what's "a good price" for you?00:12
DocScrutinizer05I already pondered to buy used or broken N9s just to recover the POP chips00:12
Jonnisamsung was happy to provide those :)00:13
azeemAard: so far I bought my N900 and N9 on ebay, though I admit the 400 EUR which have been speculated aren't bad00:13
Aardazeem: 'speculated'? we gave that number on our webpage :)00:14
azeembut the Nexus 4 I am returning was 250 EUR due to the sale00:14
azeemAard: on the part where it says "scroll down"?00:14
DocScrutinizer05I guess I have to actually disassemble my N9 finally. Instead of relying on the PCB photos in the schematics00:14
AardI personally can't stand the android ui at all. I'd rather go back to a classic palm treo than go for an android phone00:15
Aardazeem: sorry for that, we engineers didn't do the webpage :p00:15
azeemAard: ok, now I found out you have to use cursor keys00:15
azeemanyway, I didn't see it on the webpage so wasn't sure it was official00:15
azeemI actually like my Nexus 7 tablet00:16
DocScrutinizer05Jonni: or do you maybe even know the part number?00:16
Aardin the presales campaign we said 39900:16
azeemwhat really bugs me is how I have to check Facebook, Twitter, G+ etc. seperately00:16
Aardnavigation in the os and in apps in android is annoying (and parts are now getting annoying on n9 as well, after using jolla as main phone)00:17
DocScrutinizer05Jonni: would save me from the tedious disassembly of my N9 to chack the *actual* writing on that POP chip, since the one in schamtics doesn't look like Samsung00:18
DocScrutinizer05check, even00:19
DocScrutinizer05and schematics00:19
JonniI  think that I have one disassembled N9 in work, so I can check on monday00:19
DocScrutinizer05with an actual part number I *might* be able to find soare parts in HK00:19
DocScrutinizer05:-) great!00:20
Jonnithere are also some devices with non-Samsung memory, but only few of those were sold to consumers00:20
Jonniso there were 2 different memory supliers00:21
DocScrutinizer05:nod: but one of them been used for the photo in Nokia's schematics00:21
DocScrutinizer05and that one has a manuf logo I never seen and wasn't even able to find out who it is00:22
DocScrutinizer05(e1) whatever00:23
DocScrutinizer05the part number is completely unknown00:24
JonniDocScrutinizer05: It was Numonyx00:24
*** rcg has quit IRC00:24
JonniMicron bought Numonyx, so nowadays its Micron.00:27
DocScrutinizer05HAH, and micron doesn't offer *any* 1GB RAM POP00:30
DocScrutinizer05custom build?00:30
DocScrutinizer05like e.g LP5523 been00:31
DocScrutinizer05dinner time  o/00:33
*** louisdk has quit IRC00:34
*** anonfriese has quit IRC00:59
*** ajalkane has quit IRC01:19
*** ced117 has quit IRC01:27
HurrianDocScrutinizer05: isn't samsung the /other/ supplier of OneNANDs?01:52
*** Martix has quit IRC02:00
*** Guest39234 has quit IRC02:10
DocScrutinizer05samsung, microsemi, micron, elpide, hynix02:30
*** Melike has joined #harmattan02:31
DocScrutinizer05none of them lists >512MB LPDDR RAM (+NAND) cbp 168p POP02:32
*** Melike has joined #harmattan02:33
*** ji has quit IRC02:34
DocScrutinizer05possibly since you need 3 chips for 2*RAM + 1*NAND when you want to go >512MB, the addr space of OMAP3 is limited to 512MB RAM but with 2 independant ChipSelect02:34
DocScrutinizer05so I guess when you want 1GB RAM you need to use 2 banks aka dies02:35
*** Hurrian has quit IRC02:35
*** Melike has quit IRC02:36
juicemeDocScrutinizer05, if it's custom made you just won't find it anywhere.02:39
juicememight be custom made with 2 dies, or a special die never released anywhere :)02:39
*** Custodian has quit IRC02:41
*** Custodian has joined #harmattan02:42
*** ji has joined #harmattan02:42
*** Custodian has quit IRC02:43
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan03:04
DocScrutinizer05yep, that's what I'm concerned about03:05
DocScrutinizer05thus: buy old N9, desolder SoC ;-P03:05
DocScrutinizer05or "build my own POP chip", nothing a tiny PCB couldn't do ;-)03:06
DocScrutinizer05but I boggle from the latter for the massive debugging effort it implies, and from the former for the increased cost and hassle and reduced reliability of re-used chips03:07
DocScrutinizer05AM/DM335x has 8Gb addr space, but ...03:09
DocScrutinizer05oops -DM03:09
DocScrutinizer05or go for OMAP35xx CBB: >>DRAM - PoP or discrete. All SDRC signals are on both top and bottom balls<<03:12
DocScrutinizer05but ...03:12
*** Morpog_PC has quit IRC03:19
DocScrutinizer05juiceme: then OTOH you'd think that about every useful custom made chip, as long as slightly standard and general purpose, will eventually get publicly available03:33
DocScrutinizer05heck, even BB5 chipset been available as "Nokia spareparts surplus" for a certain period of time03:33
*** gabriel9 has quit IRC04:03
*** mschlens has joined #harmattan04:11
*** mschlens_ has quit IRC04:14
*** Hurrian has joined #harmattan04:14
*** xes has quit IRC04:15
*** rashm2k has quit IRC04:21
*** MFaro-Tusino has joined #harmattan04:30
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC04:43
*** MFaro-Tusino has quit IRC06:19
*** arvut has joined #harmattan07:27
*** keithzg has joined #harmattan08:26
*** VDVsx has quit IRC09:47
*** edgar2 has joined #harmattan09:58
*** VDVsx has joined #harmattan10:01
*** Pat_o has joined #harmattan10:20
*** amizraa has quit IRC10:34
*** edgar2 has quit IRC10:35
*** amizraa has joined #harmattan10:47
*** NIN101 has joined #harmattan11:12
*** edgar2 has joined #harmattan11:19
*** Pat_o has quit IRC11:19
*** Pat_o has joined #harmattan11:31
*** Pat_o has quit IRC11:36
*** vandam has joined #harmattan11:43
*** Pat_o has joined #harmattan11:49
*** Pali has joined #harmattan11:53
*** jreznik has joined #harmattan11:53
*** Pat_o has quit IRC11:53
*** ced117 has joined #harmattan12:02
*** Pat_o has joined #harmattan12:08
*** Pali has quit IRC12:22
*** Pali has joined #harmattan12:22
*** vandam has quit IRC12:31
*** bef0rd has quit IRC12:47
*** bef0rd has joined #harmattan12:47
*** vandam has joined #harmattan12:52
*** bef0rd has quit IRC12:52
*** vandam has quit IRC12:56
*** vandam has joined #harmattan12:56
*** Morpog_PC has joined #harmattan13:14
*** vandam has quit IRC13:18
*** vandam has joined #harmattan13:18
*** M4rtinK has joined #harmattan13:32
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan13:37
*** dashin has quit IRC13:50
*** vandam has quit IRC13:56
*** dashin has joined #harmattan14:04
*** Pali has quit IRC14:06
*** arcean has joined #harmattan14:10
*** Marwa has joined #harmattan14:22
*** Marwa has joined #harmattan14:22
*** Marwa has quit IRC14:24
*** Pali has joined #harmattan14:28
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has joined #harmattan14:28
*** arcean_ has joined #harmattan14:39
*** arcean has quit IRC14:41
*** louisdk has joined #harmattan14:44
*** arcean_ has quit IRC14:56
*** arcean has joined #harmattan14:58
*** liar has joined #harmattan15:19
*** rashm2k has joined #harmattan15:32
*** VDVsx has quit IRC16:01
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has quit IRC16:03
*** VDVsx has joined #harmattan16:16
*** arcean has quit IRC16:21
*** leinir has quit IRC16:21
*** leinir has joined #harmattan16:22
*** arcean has joined #harmattan16:26
*** edgar2 has quit IRC16:39
*** michael_ has joined #harmattan16:39
michael_thp, ping16:39
*** arcean_ has joined #harmattan16:45
*** arcean has quit IRC16:48
*** arcean_ has quit IRC16:57
*** michael__ has joined #harmattan17:03
*** michael_ has quit IRC17:03
*** michael__ has quit IRC17:06
*** michael_ has joined #harmattan17:07
*** edgar2 has joined #harmattan17:21
*** gabriel9 has quit IRC17:22
*** darknessangel has joined #harmattan17:27
*** darknessangel has quit IRC17:30
*** bef0rd has joined #harmattan17:36
*** friese has joined #harmattan17:39
*** bef0rd has quit IRC17:41
*** rcg has joined #harmattan18:03
*** arcean_ has joined #harmattan18:16
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has joined #harmattan18:17
*** iDont has joined #harmattan18:20
*** Leiu has joined #harmattan18:42
*** dashin has quit IRC18:44
*** Leiu has quit IRC18:45
*** arcean_ has quit IRC18:45
GeneralAntillesZogG_laptop, do you want a copy editing on the Jolla post?18:55
*** bef0rd has joined #harmattan18:58
*** arvut has quit IRC19:12
*** iDont has quit IRC19:28
*** Pat_o has quit IRC19:32
*** Pat_o has joined #harmattan19:37
*** Pat_o has quit IRC19:44
*** juiceme has quit IRC19:46
*** juiceme has joined #harmattan19:49
*** Pat_o has joined #harmattan20:06
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: copy on what?20:15
ZogG_laptopSfiet_Konstantin: ping20:15
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: pong20:18
*** Pat_o has quit IRC20:18
*** Pat_o has joined #harmattan20:29
*** fyra has joined #harmattan20:31
*** fyra is now known as fyra420:33
GeneralAntillesZogG_laptop, on your blog post about Jolla on Tumblr.20:33
*** arcean_ has joined #harmattan20:41
*** fyra4 has quit IRC20:42
ZogG_laptopSfiet_Konstantin: here20:45
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: you want to copy it or you made more readable/proper copy?20:45
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: so ?20:46
*** arcean_ has quit IRC20:47
ZogG_laptopSfiet_Konstantin: lemme open it in fron ot my eyes20:48
ZogG_laptopi don't ask for full details20:49
ZogG_laptopbut at least some info on support, future plans20:49
ZogG_laptopSfiet_Konstantin: on phone20:52
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: as I said, they don't know what will happen in 3 month20:52
*** rcg has quit IRC20:52
Sfiet_Konstantinhow would you expect them to tell about the support in "long term"20:52
Sfiet_Konstantinthey said it will be supported20:52
Sfiet_Konstantinbut it is more like vague promise than something to be sure20:52
Sfiet_Konstantinand other manufacturers are the same so ... no miracle here20:53
ZogG_laptop"it will be supported" is nothing20:56
ZogG_laptopN9 was "it will be supported" and actually still(was it till 2014 or 201520:56
ZogG_laptopthey said we know and we do different, so how is it different?20:56
ZogG_laptopsame story all over again20:56
ZogG_laptopat least point roadmap the plan, do not promise to be "unlike" tell your plans - more useful20:57
ZogG_laptopthey said it would be different from Nokia this time and real linux and opensource (at first i know they said that UI MIGHT be oopensourced too)21:00
ZogG_laptopnow we get MEr and Nemo wh oare opensource doesn't matter what21:00
ZogG_laptopand sailfish os on to21:00
ZogG_laptopso they actually added sailfish UX, added android and old spec HW21:01
Sfiet_Konstantintell plans implies that they have and want to share them21:01
ZogG_laptopthey still din;t share full secs what plans they want to share?21:01
Sfiet_Konstantinmaybe they don't, or maybe there is buisness preventing them to share21:02
ZogG_laptopthey are not my classmate pal from age 12 so i trust him.21:02
ZogG_laptopwhat is - "they want" ....21:02
ZogG_laptopis it child game" i want to tell bt i can't "...21:02
Sfiet_Konstantinplease explain yourself21:02
ZogG_laptopthose maybes dont help21:02
Sfiet_KonstantinI don't understand21:02
Sfiet_KonstantinThey never said that they would share a plan21:02
ZogG_laptopthe point is simple after all to gain user is simple21:02
ZogG_laptopto keep user is hard21:03
ZogG_laptopto get user back is hardest21:03
Sfiet_Konstantinthey said that they are unlike. At least in term of UI it is the case21:03
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: +1, +2, +3 indeed21:03
ZogG_laptopadn they don't get it that they have one shot21:03
ZogG_laptopUI is nothing21:03
ZogG_laptopUI is important when everythingelse is set21:03
Sfiet_Konstantindo you mean that (In your opinion) that they are still doing the Nokia style21:03
Sfiet_Konstantinlike failing in saying their goal21:03
Sfiet_Konstantinand not supporting stuff ?21:04
ZogG_laptopit's like telling i have good interier in my shitty appartment at garbage at the end of the city area :)21:04
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: their main selling point is UI21:04
ZogG_laptopSfiet_Konstantin: it's not only Nokia style, it's big companies and thinking style21:04
ZogG_laptopit's mostly not unlike21:04
ZogG_laptopi supprted maemo and harmattan not only because of phone21:04
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: detail again the big companies thinking ?21:04
ZogG_laptopbut idea21:04
Sfiet_KonstantinI have a lot of trouble in following (sorry)21:05
ZogG_laptoplinux is not about opensource21:05
ZogG_laptopthe big company thinking is the busness plan is the same as all other giant companies21:05
Sfiet_Konstantinalright: you share source and plan21:06
ZogG_laptopif you pay attention to startups on kickstart and indie devs - today they raise more money from home with different business models21:06
ZogG_laptopnot asking for source21:06
Sfiet_Konstantineasy for samsung to take the source and release 1 month earlier21:06
Sfiet_Konstantin(I'm doing an extrême example)21:06
ZogG_laptopasking at least to what wait for21:06
Sfiet_Konstantinin my opinion, they have to keep their buisness stuff done. After release, we can discuss again21:06
ZogG_laptopmaybe they just say - we'll make phone to get customers, ditch it in 2 months as with new money will get new phone21:06
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: example about the different busness models for indies21:07
ZogG_laptopand than support it21:07
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: eh21:07
ZogG_laptopand i don't want to be first one rat to be used21:07
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: no, they don't have money to build a newer phone with the income of the first21:07
ZogG_laptopas at nokia it was always - next phone would be the good one21:07
Sfiet_Konstantinthey need to make money and grow before even being able to build a new phone21:07
ZogG_laptopSfiet_Konstantin: i don't know what they have or not, i don;t know literally nothing21:07
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: you are free not to buy the first phone21:07
ZogG_laptopi dont even know what is other half21:08
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: one thing they don't have: money21:08
ZogG_laptopi don't know if i need to buy those for first phone and throw away as there would be no compatability21:08
ZogG_laptoplet's say like that21:08
ZogG_laptopany company that wants moeny21:08
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: me neither. And for sure, there won't be kbd other half: they don't have money to make21:08
ZogG_laptopcome to someone and shows plan21:08
ZogG_laptopand people decide to support or not21:08
ZogG_laptopthey are startup we are contributing with moeny21:09
ZogG_laptopit's their interest to excite us21:09
ZogG_laptopthe "excitment" of release is something that huge company can do21:09
ZogG_laptopas they can release few lines21:09
ZogG_laptophigh tech21:09
ZogG_laptoplow tech21:09
ZogG_laptopthey can afford it21:10
ZogG_laptopwhile jolla CAN't use this kind of business model21:10
ZogG_laptopi  don''t get how they and people don't see it:)21:10
Sfiet_Konstantinthey have one phone that's all21:10
ZogG_laptopthey can't afford it21:10
ZogG_laptopso if they know their weak points they at least need to tell straight about them21:11
ZogG_laptopcovering things doesn't help21:11
ZogG_laptopand this is big company thinking21:11
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat do you mean covering thing ?21:11
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat do you want to know21:11
Sfiet_KonstantinI take it simple21:11
ZogG_laptopthat compny is mashine and there is no human talk at the line of eyes21:11
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat they don't announce is what they don't know21:11
Sfiet_Konstantinthey don't know about what will be the other half and if there will be compatibilityu21:11
ZogG_laptopif someone would come to me and tell me, listen i failed here, but i need your understanding and help, i would get it21:11
Sfiet_Konstantinso they don't tell anything about it21:11
Sfiet_Konstantinsame with update and maintenance21:12
ZogG_laptopbut if i tell you that phone of 2011 had better screen for same price and co-founder tells me that Mozart use only few notes - i don't know how to get it21:12
Sfiet_Konstantinthey don't know the cost, so they don't tell anything about it21:12
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: I raise you the fact that a phone is not a bunch of specs21:13
Sfiet_Konstantinand again21:13
Sfiet_Konstantinand again21:13
ZogG_laptopbelieve me they know fuuture step if they do succeed21:13
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: they don't know if they will succed21:13
ZogG_laptopif they dont know what they are doing so why to tell " know we know how to do it right"21:13
Sfiet_Konstantinthey know about how to maximize the chance21:13
Sfiet_Konstantinnothing else21:13
ZogG_laptopso it's simple scam in your words?21:13
ZogG_laptopto make moen as far as you can21:14
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat scam, what words ?21:14
ZogG_laptopif they dont know but they still promise21:14
Sfiet_Konstantinjust look at Jolla, and see if it is a company that will make money just for profitability and ditch community21:14
ZogG_laptopif they tel lthey are revolution and still not sure what would release21:14
Sfiet_KonstantinJolla needs community to do some work, like evangelist21:14
ZogG_laptopthose are lies21:14
ZogG_laptopsimple like that21:14
ZogG_laptopyou can tell me " yeah you know it's difficult... and that and this" but facts are facts21:15
Sfiet_Konstantinbut Jolla surely don't need people to tell them the specs they need. Especially that negociating for a given price some specs is SUPER HARD21:15
ZogG_laptop2 + 2 = 421:15
GeneralAntillesZogG_laptop, what I mean is do you want me to review the post for typos and basic grammar and provide you with a diff of fixes?21:15
Sfiet_Konstantinthey might not know the whole details, but know the broad idea21:15
Sfiet_Konstantinthe revolution is the OS, and the other half21:15
ZogG_laptopnot in 1984 version after all, and maybe this is the point here that after all they do not make linux phone for community but use community and linux to profit themselves21:15
Sfiet_Konstantinthe exact shape of the other half is not known21:15
Sfiet_Konstantinbut they know the concept21:16
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: would be nice. Thanks :) did you like it? what do you think?21:16
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: a company needs profit21:16
Sfiet_Konstantinhowever, you can acheve profit by different ways21:16
Sfiet_Konstantincommunity is nice21:16
Sfiet_Konstantinbut community is NOT HELPING by bitching all the time about specs21:16
ZogG_laptopSfiet_Konstantin: but that is only thing that is innovation. UX that i still don't think would be mor usefull than N9. as far as i saw it it's more difficult and illogical21:17
Sfiet_Konstantinbecause bitching about specs do not help Jolla to negociate with Qualcomm or Samsung the latest CPU or screen21:17
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: you are free not to buy the phone if you don't like the UI, indeed. The UI is strange at first sight but quite nice. Once again, it is about experiencing it21:17
ZogG_laptopfor exmple i saw wallpaper change with swype from lockscreen. as it's the most used feature when u need most used things from lokscreen(fast access to)21:18
Sfiet_KonstantinWhat I'm trying to say is feedback is important. Jolla is bad at communication, but they have their buisness and they might make something correct for them and the community, so stay calm and carry on21:18
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: what if it was not just wallpaper ?21:18
ZogG_laptopit's theme21:18
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat if it is more than theme ?21:19
ZogG_laptopdoesnt't matrer21:19
Sfiet_Konstantinwhat if your application layout, your ringtone, the mode you have and the stuff you enable (wifi, 3G, GPS etc)21:19
ZogG_laptopi think camera. speeddials annd thousands of things are more important than whatever it can be :)21:19
Sfiet_Konstantineverything was united in this background thing ?21:19
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: camera ? Pull from top, 2 times, you have it21:19
Sfiet_Konstantinit is another fast access, and you don't even need to do two gesture, it is pull, release21:20
Sfiet_Konstantinsame for phone21:20
Sfiet_Konstantin3 ticks21:20
Sfiet_Konstantin4 ticks, settings21:20
Sfiet_Konstantin1 tick, settings with access to "switches"21:20
Sfiet_Konstantinbbl, need to cook21:20
ZogG_laptoppulley is wierd as well21:20
Sfiet_Konstantinwe have to discuss more :)21:20
ZogG_laptopas you can pull too much or opposite21:20
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: weired at first21:20
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: vibra, sound feedback21:21
ZogG_laptopand if menu is long you would need to use two fingers to scroll21:21
Morpog_PCpulley is sensational21:21
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: for long menu, you have a point21:21
ZogG_laptopone to stop so u can bring first to top of screen21:21
Morpog_PCi can imagine myself doing most of stuff on this phone one handed21:21
ZogG_laptopbut again does UX and low specs worth it?21:21
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: open questipon21:21
Sfiet_Konstantinanswer depends on you21:22
Sfiet_Konstantinfor me, it worth it, but you are free not to buy it21:22
ZogG_laptopim not21:22
*** kentsfield has joined #harmattan21:22
ZogG_laptopi use 100 euros21:22
ZogG_laptopi can't throw them for nothing21:22
Morpog_PCZogG_laptop, they are not samsung, they are not apple, they are not HTC, they are not even oppo or huawei21:22
Sfiet_KonstantinZogG_laptop: you can sell it to someone else21:22
*** kentsfield has left #harmattan21:23
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: read his article, read mine as a reply to his21:23
Morpog_PCeven HTC got refused to use Snapdragon 800 in their HTC One Max, because they are too small nowadays21:23
ZogG_laptopthough after cofounder told that i was told to see things like that and use empty phone systems. it feels not nice :)21:23
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: feel free to reply again on a formatted matter on a blog21:23
*** koka has joined #harmattan21:23
Sfiet_Konstantinhe have some points21:23
*** rcg has joined #harmattan21:23
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: SO WHAT?21:23
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: do they need a hug or cookie?21:23
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: ^21:23
*** koka has quit IRC21:24
GeneralAntillesZogG_laptop, thanks for articulating it. It's been a frustrating wait.21:24
Morpog_PCSfiet_Konstantin, I stopped reading his after a few sentences, too much jumps for m brain in logic21:24
*** koka has joined #harmattan21:24
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: very nice21:25
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: but i'm here21:25
Morpog_PCsorry ZogG_laptop21:25
GeneralAntillesHey, at least people care enough to comment.21:25
Sfiet_KonstantinMorpog_PC: read mine then21:25
ZogG_laptopso if you don;t understand me it can be your lost as well, so be at least polite21:25
ZogG_laptopthank you21:25
Morpog_PCSfiet_Konstantin, when I got time :)21:25
*** koka has quit IRC21:25
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: i'm not good at words. But i know most people do have the same feeling and i tried to summirize it. :(21:26
Morpog_PCI just don't get the spec wars. I wouldn't have thought that it would be coming from maemo community. I would have thought it from android or apple users.21:26
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: simple. if you use linux, it doesn't mean you wouldn't like new technology21:27
ZogG_laptopotherwise why don't you buy gta0421:27
ZogG_laptopuse CLI to call21:27
Morpog_PCZogG_laptop, just because I say it was too illogical for me to read doesn't mean it's a personal attack. It's called tl;dr in internet speech.21:27
ZogG_laptopand watch movies in ascii code ( there is libcaca and you cna compile mplayer with support of it)21:28
AardZogG_laptop: one comment about the 'opensource' and 'nemo' bit. when we picked up nemo it wasn't very alive. it still is is not that active, but fortunately things picked up the last months -- which was possible because we do almost everything that's not directly ui in the open in nemo, so that nemo nowadays is quite a nice base where you 'just' need to pop a ui on top21:28
Morpog_PCIf I was after specs, I wouldn't have bought a N9 back then.21:28
Aardand even for the ui-enablers lot's of stuff comes from us there21:28
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: i know it was not illogical and i have problems, and as it's painful topic for me i dont take it serious, but you added the "he was..." like i'm not here.21:29
ZogG_laptopthat what added to whole feeling not pleasent thing21:29
Morpog_PCZogG_laptop, maybe when I got some time and rest I will try to reread it.21:29
ZogG_laptopAard: it would be fully logical that you would give back to the community and opensource you use.21:30
ZogG_laptopeven apple send patches once in a while21:30
ZogG_laptopafaik CUPs is apple thing21:30
AardZogG_laptop: we're far, far away from 'giving back to community we use'21:30
ZogG_laptopAard: but again it's not about code man.21:31
ZogG_laptopIt's about openess. plans.21:31
Morpog_PCZogG_laptop, they are giving back very much to nemomobile, without them Nemomobile would be stuck in stoneage.21:32
ZogG_laptopif you would tell me now, look, we are trying best and it's hard and we might not succeed but if we do we would try to provide that this and that and if you support us at the biggining it would bring you those advant. or disadvant.21:32
ZogG_laptopi would get it21:32
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: i think the most important thing they gave to Nemo is not code but actully interest in it21:33
Morpog_PCwell, no code no interest21:34
Morpog_PCI haven't seen much gain of external contributors to nemo21:34
ZogG_laptopi think faenil made a lot of work for one man as well.21:35
ZogG_laptopthey use it as well it's common interest for them as well21:35
ZogG_laptopand i don;t say they are bad21:35
Morpog_PCsure, but without code from Jolla to base on he wouldn't have been able to do his work in such a short time21:35
AardZogG_laptop: I'm still pretty disappointed by the level of interest in nemo, and I've been going around for ages now telling people that we'd like contributors there, and that I'll use my spare time getting people started there (for example, for making sure that sailfish will work on n9 once released). not much happened21:35
ZogG_laptopagain opensource is not only code21:35
GeneralAntillesI don't think the marketing approach is helping much with the old Maemo people.21:35
GeneralAntillesOnce bitten, twice shy, etc.21:36
ZogG_laptopthe most important why poeple do it and why them open,, idealogical princpals and reasons moving from inside :)21:36
ZogG_laptopAard: did you try on TMO with exact same phrasing?21:36
ZogG_laptop"(for example, for making sure that sailfish will work on  n9 once released)21:37
Morpog_PCI haven't seen much interest on nemomobile in TMO21:37
AardZogG_laptop: not myself (I don't have tmo account), but somebody started a thread there quoting me trying to get interest in nemo21:37
GeneralAntillesIt's tough to get people interested in abstract things.21:38
ZogG_laptopbecause maemo people got their own place and N9 is dead and Jolla didn;t get TMO as their child. but it's okay. i think the problem is that people tired of those "prove of concepts" of running and trying.21:38
ZogG_laptopwith all the cool of real linux on phone21:38
ZogG_laptopsupport is support21:38
ZogG_laptopand they want to have good specs21:38
ZogG_laptoplatest apps21:39
AardGeneralAntilles: it's not _that_ abstract. for n9 -- we started kernel upgrade, and we have all the remaining tasks in nemo bugzilla21:39
Morpog_PCwell GeneralAntilles UI work is not that abstract21:40
ZogG_laptopAard: if you not interested to make even account yo excpect people to get interest ...21:40
Morpog_PCand UI work is one of the top points being worked on atm21:40
ZogG_laptopthey want phone to work21:40
ZogG_laptopi love linux and i'm old user21:40
AardZogG_laptop: tmo is not the only source of developers. I don't have much connection to tmo itself for historical reasons21:40
ZogG_laptopi use source based one21:40
ZogG_laptopand i would even say that systemd and stuff like that is too fancy and useless21:41
ZogG_laptopbut people are tired to run after support, where they need to compile new kernel so the phone may call21:41
ZogG_laptopso specs are important21:41
ZogG_laptopUX is important21:41
ZogG_laptopsupport is important21:41
ZogG_laptopi dislike iphone21:42
ZogG_laptopbut it's good phone that does exactly what is promised21:42
ZogG_laptopwhere you tell you waht you get and you get it21:42
*** arcean_ has joined #harmattan21:43
ZogG_laptopi do;t like or use it as i disagree with wy that i buy hw that doesn't belong to me21:43
Morpog_PCdid ypu really had the expectation to get an iphone like experience from Jolla?21:43
ZogG_laptopmy point is being geeky, open, hacky doesn't mean lack of other things21:43
ZogG_laptopthat's why N900 ws pocket pc with phone functions21:43
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: it's not my point21:44
GeneralAntillesAard, my point being, it's not that can easily be installed and used.21:44
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: i dont expect iphone or want android otherwise i wouldnt care about a jolla21:44
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: it can be installed and it cant be used as everyday phone21:45
Morpog_PCfor me it sounds that you want an iphone that has the hacking abilities of a N90021:45
ZogG_laptopiphone has most hacking abilities of N900 :)21:45
Morpog_PCwell, out of the box21:45
ZogG_laptopnope and nope21:45
ZogG_laptopmy point is that "but it's eal linux" is not excuse for using 3 years old screen when shitty chinise 100$ phones have 1080p screens :)21:46
Morpog_PCso after all it's still spec wars21:47
ZogG_laptopor 1GB RAM can be tricky if it can block getting futher updates or opposite prevent from future sw updates with new techs for backward compatability21:47
ZogG_laptopit's not a war21:48
*** edgar2 has quit IRC21:48
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: ok, if i sell you nokia 3310 with other half and linux. would you buy it?21:48
ZogG_laptopor do you use modem at home for internet>21:48
Morpog_PCthats not comparable21:48
ZogG_laptopit is21:48
Morpog_PClet's compare it with N921:48
Morpog_PCIt was clearly outdated the day it got unveiled21:49
ZogG_laptopN9 was outdated and was released few yers ago21:49
ZogG_laptopit laggs sometimes21:49
ZogG_laptopand got stuck few times21:49
ZogG_laptopit gets warm sometimes21:49
AardZogG_laptop: 1gb ram just means that for future upgrades there might be restrictions as in '9 apps running is hard limit, additional running apps will be swapped out'. it does not prevent upgrades21:49
Aard(and we're doing a bit better on memory usage side than harmattan ;))21:49
Morpog_PCi bought N9 because of UI/UX and not because of it's old Cortex A8 single core21:50
ZogG_laptopAard: so basically you telling me that 1 GB is enuf for few apps, and on other hand you telling me you have real miltitasking?21:50
ZogG_laptopthat iphone has real multitasking21:50
Morpog_PCN9's 854x480 pentile amoled also wasn't high end back then21:50
ZogG_laptopthey just have limit for one app21:50
ZogG_laptopbut its is real one :)21:50
Morpog_PCand N9 had a supreme price. 250€ higher than Jolla's device21:51
AardZogG_laptop: I said 'for future upgrades', taking your complaint that future software versions might eat more ram.21:51
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: and that's the reason i'm now pissed off, exactly coz i had enuf of getting old hw phones21:51
ZogG_laptopAard: you see you are still company21:52
Morpog_PCZogG_laptop, still this is a small startup. Your expectations are too high I guess.21:52
ZogG_laptopand you would agree that some decisions are made despite doesn't matter what21:52
ZogG_laptopo let's take of bb10 on playbook example21:52
ZogG_laptopthey promised21:52
ZogG_laptopthey tired21:52
ZogG_laptopthey said no go21:52
Morpog_PCthats just an excuse, Mfarotusino got BB10 running on playbook21:53
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: exactly, it;s startup and price is too high for excpectation they can provide to people :)21:53
ZogG_laptopthere are two sides of coin21:53
Morpog_PCwell, you don't even know final price yet ZogG_laptop21:54
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: runnig OS is not fully functional one. And he didn;t not exactly. The point is that no one promise the same happens to you21:54
ZogG_laptopi bought expensive N9 just a while ago21:54
ZogG_laptopwhy would you think i can afford to buy every few months a phone?21:55
Morpog_PCerm, my N9 is amlmost 2 years old now21:55
Morpog_PCand I still like it more then every android device I touched from friends/family21:55
ZogG_laptop2 years is not that a lot :021:55
Morpog_PCwell, I change my phone every 2 to 3 years21:56
ZogG_laptopi would keep using n900 till now if not broken usb21:56
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: good for you.21:56
ZogG_laptopit ws once in 5 years now it's once in 2 than it's once in few months21:56
Morpog_PCand what would you do with an android device where you are stuck after 1 or 2 updates? Rely on roms?21:56
ZogG_laptopMorpog_PC: i didn't buy one but i would buy nexus with updates from google21:57
AardZogG_laptop: changing phones every 2 years with contract extensions is pretty common in germany and some other countries21:57
ZogG_laptopor expesive one with high tech hw that would keep it few years21:57
ZogG_laptopand again you dont't like comparing with androind you don''t like it21:57
ZogG_laptopbut still you compare with their business model21:58
ZogG_laptopmaybe not only spec wars and java eating ram is bad but all this switching devices and support21:58
*** Morpog_ has joined #harmattan21:58
Morpog_Aard, yeah, but I don't. I buy them off contract.21:58
ZogG_laptopAard: here we hhave only shitty once at contracter :( and others are 2-3 times price than real one from local shops without proper support22:00
ZogG_laptopwe don't have samsung here, we don;t have sony or even nokia here :)22:00
Aardwhere is 'here'?22:00
ZogG_laptopthey work with 2-3 cellular companies or somebody buy rights to bring them here and give shitty support22:00
ZogG_laptopAard: Israel22:00
ZogG_laptopit's funny that so many tech stuff was made here and still it all goes for out of country while all the prices and tech here is shitty :)22:01
*** Morpog_PC has quit IRC22:01
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: btw i have bad news man22:01
ZogG_laptopI talk to Bill the meta watch guy22:02
ZogG_laptophe dislike RIM :)22:02
GeneralAntillesYeah, he's said so before22:03
ZogG_laptopBill Geiser - check @billg on twitter22:03
GeneralAntillesThey tried during BB7 days22:03
GeneralAntillesYeah, he follows me.22:03
ZogG_laptopall i wanted is bluetooth compatability22:03
GeneralAntilles(or did, last time I checked)22:03
ZogG_laptopi would try to write app myself22:03
ZogG_laptophe does? :)22:03
GeneralAntillesWhat's the issue with Bluetooth?22:04
ZogG_laptopthe stack sf or hw is nt compatibale with blckberry22:05
ZogG_laptopi mean bluetooth 4.022:05
ZogG_laptopi can connect thru SPP and use old way but then it's stupid to have 2 BLE devices not using that technology22:05
ZogG_laptopi'll try to ping on crackberry22:06
ZogG_laptopand blackkbery support22:08
GeneralAntillesWell, as long as it works22:12
GeneralAntillesDon't let it roadblock you.22:12
*** amizraa has quit IRC22:14
*** rcg has quit IRC22:16
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: not sure if try to conntact blackberyy now or use old tech :(22:21
*** ajalkane has joined #harmattan22:32
*** ced117 has quit IRC22:38
*** jreznik has quit IRC22:42
*** arcean_ has quit IRC22:59
*** Sfiet_Konstantin has quit IRC23:16
*** Pali has quit IRC23:25
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan23:27
*** friese has quit IRC23:32
*** ajalkane has quit IRC23:40
*** Pat_o has quit IRC23:53

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!