IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2013-06-28

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imunsieDocScrutinizer51: dm8tbr: Thanks for your help yesterday. Turns out "downgrade disallowed" can also mean "that's the wrong product code, schmuck"08:35
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dm8tbrimunsie: correct09:24
dm8tbrwithin the same firmware version, only the same code is allowed. you can only change the code only if you upgrade to a newer firmware. which obviously is impossible if you already are on the latest09:25
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imunsieInterestingly the screen not turning off issue must have crept into the backup I made (post fsck). Reflashed and restored again and only a partial (since the fs corruption was mostly around the ~/.cache) and the display seems to be turning off properly again10:17
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imunsieJust out of curiosity - has anyone ever seen an N9 who's low power standby screen displays the time in bright cyan instead of dim white?10:22
CissWityes, by changing the good css file10:22
imunsieIt happens on a collegues N9, but he's never bothered figuring out why (he didn't customise it)10:22
mschlens_imunsie: no but I know that you can change the colors10:22
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imunsieI know the coulours can be changed by editing the css - I always change mine to red so it isn't as bright at night10:23
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imunsieBut he has never done that to his10:23
imunsieEven after he reflashed it it's the same10:23
CissWitthen no :)10:24
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imunsieIt's most interesting to me that the display seems to get brighter instead of dimmer - seems like something is backwards somewhere10:30
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imunsieI wonder how much it contributes to his battery life... he has mentioned that it isn't so great, on the other hand he uses his more actively than I do so it's hard to compare10:33
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DocScrutinizer05imunsie: however consider that every photon costs 1000s of electrons eaten from battery. Regarding _bright_ cyan10:49
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DocScrutinizer05aah, you wonder how it can change on its own. Hard to tell, maybe some hw defect10:52
DocScrutinizer05or some sw defect or setting10:52
DocScrutinizer05also mind you OLED displays are notorious to have a greenish color when looked at from the side10:53
DocScrutinizer05regarding "cyan"10:54
DocScrutinizer05imunsie: is his display generally oddly colored, also during normal operation?10:54
imunsieIn normal operation the display is fine - looks the same as mine10:55
DocScrutinizer05hmm, then a hw defect is rather improbable10:55
imunsieBut when we both hit standby the clock is displayed in white at whatever brightness our displays are set to for a moment, then mine dims but remains white to go into low power, while his gets brighter and turns cyan10:56
DocScrutinizer05that's ODD10:56
imunsieSo, whatever the issue is it is clearly only triggered by the low power mode10:57
DocScrutinizer05rather by the dimming10:57
DocScrutinizer05but sure, dimming and low-power-mode and power-savings-mode are closely entangled10:58
dm8tbrcould be some app he installed10:58
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imunsiedm8tbr: It even happened immediately after he did a complete reflash before he restored anything10:59
DocScrutinizer05check you brightness settings, your device-display-timeout and standbyscreen settings10:59
DocScrutinizer05on both devices10:59
dm8tbrimunsie: that's weird indeed10:59
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DocScrutinizer05and yeah, I bet there are display calibrations in CAL, to compensate white balance on several brightness levels11:01
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DocScrutinizer05dm8tbr: any info on that?11:01
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DocScrutinizer05in /sys there must be a few sysnodes to tune/tweak such display parameters11:02
DocScrutinizer05even the display itself may have a local "cal" for such settings, in controller chip11:03
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer05: no idea, never looked at cal11:04
DocScrutinizer05I more wondered if you ever looked at display calibration on hw level11:04
DocScrutinizer05aka white/gray/black balance11:05
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DocScrutinizer05(the latter quite uncommon since ... black is black is black, _usually_)11:06
imunsieDocScrutinizer05: I just compared our settings for display & battery - the only difference we could see was the display timeout we had set11:06
DocScrutinizer05I dunno if that's even part of Xwindows11:06
DocScrutinizer05imunsie: I guess that's caused by a hw-decalibration or -variance11:07
DocScrutinizer05I *seem* to recall similar reports about color balance way off the normal range, from other users of N911:09
DocScrutinizer05usually noticed soon after purchase and swapped device on warranty11:09
imunsieyeah, his has always had this issue, but since it only affects the standby screen he hasn't really worried about it11:10
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DocScrutinizer05how's video on device looking? do you notice differences between yours and his in dark scenes of same movie on both devices?11:11
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imunsieI'd have to compare to be certain, but we have never noticed any differences like that11:14
DocScrutinizer05also haha just noticed lockscreen display vanishes on bright ALS11:14
DocScrutinizer05ambient light sensor11:14
DocScrutinizer05right of "NOKIA"11:15
DocScrutinizer05I point there with a flashlight and the time dispay vanishes11:15
imunsieI think that's just the proximity sensor disabling it11:15
DocScrutinizer05seems on N900 they practiced for that function X-P11:16
imunsieYou can get the same effect if you hold your hand over that area for a couple of seconds11:16
DocScrutinizer05no, since covering same area with my hand doesn't have same effect11:16
imunsieOr do you mean you are holding the flashlight some distance from the screen?11:16
DocScrutinizer05ooh right11:16
* imunsie makes a mental note to try that later11:16
DocScrutinizer05nm, you're right11:17
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* imunsie is searching online for "Beer cafe" (in Drive)11:22
imunsieSomething about that message is awesome11:22
imunsieWell, I have beers to go to11:22
* DocScrutinizer05 curses maemo for obviously never having heard of ntp. "you need a SIM before you can use `automatic time update┬┤!" WTF?11:24
mschlens_Awesome, isn't it?11:26
DocScrutinizer05I once had a (casio, citizen?) wrist watch that had the option to adjust seconds to closest full minute (range -29 .. +30s) on simply double-clicking the "ok" button on the watch11:27
DocScrutinizer05damn was that a useful and convenient feature11:28
DocScrutinizer05you not even had to look at your watch to adjust it to any time source from where ever you ran into one11:29
DocScrutinizer05assuming you once a week did the double-click thingie on the "with the last tone it's umpteen o clock. pip ... pip ... pip ... peeeeep"11:30
DocScrutinizer05you never had to worry about correct setting of your wrist watch time11:31
valdur55I have good idea for LED notify.11:31
valdur55It should notify about open network....11:31
DocScrutinizer05I wonder why maemo can't do same, with e.g ntp. once a day, if connectivity available11:32
valdur55Open connection....11:32
DocScrutinizer05valdur55: I#m not sure what you're after, but just let me say that wlan chip eats insane amounts of power for searching APs11:33
valdur55I allways use PSM and connection is automaticaly closed, but when browser is opened then connection is also opened.11:33
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DocScrutinizer05i'd rather slightly modify this idea so notifier LED works all the same like the LED next to your regular ethernet NIC's rj45 receptacle: flash on each data transmission - well and yeah maybe light steady when "cable is plugged" aka connection established11:37
DocScrutinizer05particularly for GPRS this would be mad useful11:37
* DocScrutinizer05 say "thank you so much for this idea" and wanders off to the sketing board to design the app that does this for maemo511:38
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer05: nitpick. in that case it would be SNTP and the utility is ntpdate11:39
dm8tbrwhich should be easy enough to implement11:40
dm8tbrtimed and all that11:40
DocScrutinizer05you're aware though that ntpdate is deprecated and obsolete? Not that I'd have any sympathy for that silly move they did11:40
dm8tbryeah, bla and all that :)11:41
dm8tbrIIRC they integrated SNTP into ntpd or sthg like that11:41
DocScrutinizer05yep, but they failed to implement the damn useful "only *display* ntp time" option into ntpd11:42
DocScrutinizer05so you no longer can compare local time to ntp time by >> ntpdate; date; ntpdate <<11:42
DocScrutinizer05or rather >>  date; ntpdate; date  <<11:43
dm8tbrdoesn't busybox even do ntpdate?11:43
DocScrutinizer05don't think so11:44
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DocScrutinizer05anyway I preach for including a single "ntpdate" to ifup, on mobile devices, since ~6 years now11:47
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DocScrutinizer05ntpd is incredibly inappropriate for systems that have intermittent connectivity to the internet11:47
deramopenwrt suggests 'ntpd -q' as alternative for ntpdate11:50
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DocScrutinizer05yes, but that afaik doesn't do exactly what ntpdate does11:55
DocScrutinizer05-q      Exit  the ntpd  just after the first time the clock is *set*.11:55
DocScrutinizer05what if I don't _want_ the clock to get adjusted?11:56
deramyep.. it does not just show the remote time11:56
DocScrutinizer05the devels boldy failed on implementing a proper replacement of ntpdate11:56
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deramsurely ntpd should have option to "just show what you would do without making the changes"11:58
DocScrutinizer05feels poettering12:01
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DocScrutinizer05       ntpd  has gotten rather fat. While not huge, it has gotten larger than might be desirable for an elevated-priority ntpd  running on a workstation, particularly since many of  the12:03
DocScrutinizer05       fancy features which consume the space were designed more with a busy primary server, rather than a high stratum workstation in mind.12:03
DocScrutinizer05now consider how the above statement sounds - or should sound - with "workstation" replaced by "embedded device"12:04
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DocScrutinizer05LAST ORDER! BoD elections closing in ~12h. VOTE if you didn't yet!14:23
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