IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2013-06-21

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DocScrutinizer05[notice] I started token bulk mailing. This is for the BoD elections to start in 13h, so we finally get a new *elected* BoD again.  the tokens are still the same as for the past election(s), so you as well can use your "old" token and accountname you received for referendum and MMC/HFC elections07:41
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* dm8tbr finds it amusing how it's mandatory to take part in a troll ridden forum to be considered 'part of the community allowed to vote'09:13
DocScrutinizer05dm8tbr: who got such funny rules?09:26
DocScrutinizer05if you are mistaken regarding maemo elections: the account you're supposed to have is a GARAGE account, NO tmo account09:27
DocScrutinizer05the eligibility-to-vote rules are pretty clear about that09:28
dm8tbrwell, garage account, whatever09:28
dm8tbrit said something about karma and foo09:28
dm8tbrthat's why I always stop reading this crap09:28
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DocScrutinizer05since account on garage is free and instantly for $random-sockpuppet, there is no other way09:30
DocScrutinizer05or would you prefer to type in your N900 imei?09:30
DocScrutinizer05or allow trolls to ruin not only tmo but also maemo elections?09:31
DocScrutinizer05those rules got thoroughly discussed and finally approved in a referendum by community09:33
DocScrutinizer05and obviously nobody was able to come up with anything conceived better by a significant part of community09:34
* dm8tbr shrugs09:34
* DocScrutinizer05 shrugs too09:34
DocScrutinizer05suggest sth better, or live with what's available09:35
dm8tbrmy point being: I'd need to know in advance that I'm expected to do all sorts of crap that I don't care about to be able to vote on something where the value is not apparent09:35
DocScrutinizer05it's thoroughly and comprehensively documented both for rules/procedures as for rationale and process behind it's invention09:36
dm8tbrif that means I'm not a 'worthy part of the community' then I don't care09:36
DocScrutinizer05who's going to decide if you're a "worhty part of community2 then?09:36
dm8tbrand I suspect I'm not alone09:37
DocScrutinizer05you're for sure not alone in not groking the concept09:37
DocScrutinizer05karma is supposed to actually automagically evaluate whether you're an active member of community, in a way as fair as possible by any automatism09:38
dm8tbrthen one might be tempted to think that it's not the people who don't get it, but that this is obscure stuff that nobody was made aware of09:38
DocScrutinizer05the stuff is not obscure, you just don't bother to learn about it09:39
DocScrutinizer05you prefer to rant09:39
dm8tbrI'm trying to make a point in my criticism09:39
DocScrutinizer05you're ignoring the facts though09:40
dm8tbrbecause I was never made aware of them and they are not part of me being in the community09:40
DocScrutinizer05fact s like which is age old09:40
DocScrutinizer05you don't need to worry about any of that, since your karma builds up automatically09:41
DocScrutinizer05you're not supposed to actively do *anything* (except maybe link your tmo account to your garage account for better/higher karma, which you're told when creating a tmo account afaik) to qualify for eligibility to vote09:43
DocScrutinizer05your contributions are evaluated by karma, and karma is base for eligibility to vote09:43
dm8tbrhow does karma come from me having been active on IRC for the last 2 years?09:46
DocScrutinizer05and for this term we even announced special relaxed rules that allow *everybody* to 'manually' apply for a ballot at council@m.o, since certan flaws in m.o infra and recently broken karma calculations made us (me) consider it would be unfair to those interested in voting when vroken m.o services would defeat that09:46
DocScrutinizer05activity on IRC, though a long pending and much asked for feature, is not easy to implement for an algorithm09:47
dm8tbrthat wasn't in what you posted earlier. it just said 'you need to have x carma or sod off'09:47
DocScrutinizer05so on wiki page about karma calculation you can read about that09:47
DocScrutinizer05and that it's not (yet) implemented, regrettably09:47
dm8tbranyway, I have to go shopping now. I just wanted to point out that the whole system hinges on a flawed model of 'activity'09:48
DocScrutinizer05dm8tbr: we have only limited channels to publish news to community, since we're not supposed to spam newsletter mails. So you have to resort to announcements on public ML and that troll ridden forum09:49
DocScrutinizer05which, if you were actually that interested in the topic, and not just ranting, you already had done09:50
DocScrutinizer05again, if you feel anything could get handled better, don't hesitate to holler and criticize09:51
dm8tbrthat's what I did and essentially you told me that you don't care09:52
DocScrutinizer05please volunteer to provide a better model of activity, much appreciated09:52
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DocScrutinizer05no, basically *you* told you don't care09:53
DocScrutinizer05while I tried to explain to you that we couldn't come up with anything better than what we got, so far09:53
DocScrutinizer05sorry when the word "karma" makes you stop reading09:54
DocScrutinizer05I can't do anything about that09:54
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DocScrutinizer05and I honestly wonder how you can say it's a "flawed model of 'activity'" while you obviously don't even have a clue how karma gets evaluated09:55
DocScrutinizer05a lot of community members pondered for quite a long time how to create the best activity rating model they could come up with09:56
DocScrutinizer05if you have suggestions how to improve, don't hesitate to speak up, we're listening09:57
DocScrutinizer05and those community members that drafted and finetuned karma evaluation, they mentioned from beginning that IRC would be nice to have but pretty hard to do in a reasonable way09:58
DocScrutinizer05after all we don't want that those with the best IRC karma are trolls and bots09:59
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DocScrutinizer05even infobot has a karma function, but for a reason it's deprecated and hardly ever used10:00
DocScrutinizer05the issues with infobot's karma known as karma wars10:01
DocScrutinizer05since it's based on ratings by other users10:01
DocScrutinizer05and honestly, for anybody considering her/himself an active maemo community member it10:03
DocScrutinizer05's virtually impossible to NOT gain the pathetic 10 karma points needed for voting10:03
DocScrutinizer05I think 10 posts on tmo or one post with 2 or 3 thanks, or 4 wiki edits, or two or thre package ratings as tester, or younameit, is already sufficient10:05
DocScrutinizer05membership in garage projects!!10:06
DocScrutinizer05posts to maemo ML10:07
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DocScrutinizer05actually TWO wiki edits are already enough for 6*sqrt(2) > 1010:08
DocScrutinizer05honestly!! please educate yourself before ranting10:09
DocScrutinizer05nobody requires you to get a tmo account10:09
DocScrutinizer05and really sorry we couldn't come up with any sensible feasible IRC based karma10:10
DocScrutinizer05send patches!10:10
DocScrutinizer05and one last line on it: our current policy is: "if you want to vote and haven't received a ballot mail, please ask council at, quoting your garage account. You'll receive a ballot if we can handle the workload and there are no idications you're troll or sock-puppet"10:15
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DocScrutinizer05so instead of ranting, please tell council what you want them to do for you. We have enough rants on our inbound stack10:15
DocScrutinizer05there been community mebers approaching us demanding for banners added to tmo and Visit those pages and see what they contributed and what council/techstuff did on their request.10:17
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DocScrutinizer05if you have any criticism, suggest how to improve it. rants don't help anybody10:18
DocScrutinizer05after all this is a community of peers now, not a hierarchical system where you could bash 2the powers that be"10:19
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DocScrutinizer05err, sorry, 6*sqrt(2) is not > 10, you'll need three wiki edits10:23
DocScrutinizer05re missing IRC karma, believe me I'm one of those that regret that most, since I would benefit from it epically10:27
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DocScrutinizer05anyway, ballot mails are getting sent again this very moment. they have same token as it been in last mail vor referendum resp MCC/HFC election10:48
DocScrutinizer05please everybody vote!10:48
DocScrutinizer05if you haven't received a ballot mail but are interested to vote anyway, please check your mail addr setting in your garage account and then send a mail to with your garage account ID and the mail addr set in garage that we will use to send your ballot10:50
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dm8tbrDocScrutinizer05: I once looked into carma and found out that it was heavily biased towards activity that is of no interest to me. Tell me why I should look at it again if it hasn't changed?11:32
DocScrutinizer05sorry, I miss your point11:33
DocScrutinizer05what the heck do you expect council or techstaff to do?11:33
dm8tbralso is it still that estel leading that pack?11:33
DocScrutinizer05which pack, which estel?11:34
dm8tbrlast time I was on #maemo there was a very vocal and aggressive person by the nick Estel or somesuch who was elected to some leadership position.11:34
dm8tbrI left the channel after that as the atmosphere was outright hostile11:35
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DocScrutinizer05this person got a permanent ban on #maemo11:35
dm8tbrstill they were in a leadership position, weren't they?11:36
DocScrutinizer05and that person never got any leadership position despite he might have thought so. Plainly there *is* no such leadership in maemo11:36
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dm8tbrI see11:37
DocScrutinizer05estel been member of maemo community council (the community's proxy and steward) until he got kicked out by the other members11:38
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dm8tbrso, now that we have this out of the way. this election thingy, is that for the community around the hardware Nxxx or around the original firmware those run or any firmware those run?11:41
DocScrutinizer05it is for
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DocScrutinizer05which is an entity to serve as cashier/treasurer for the maemo community, whatever that means11:43
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dm8tbryeah, that doesn't quite answer my question though11:44
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dm8tbrfrom your point of view. what does the maemo community focus on?11:44
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DocScrutinizer05right now we have most of them focus on fremantle and harmattan, and recently sailfish attracted some interest11:47
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer05: morning, how are you today?11:48
DocScrutinizer05not too bad, thanks11:48
ZogG_laptopnot too bad is almost good :)11:48
DocScrutinizer05dm8tbr: though I probably have same feelings like you towards tmo, it is still the place where you get a most first hand idea of what community is focusing on recently11:53
dm8tbrdepending on definition of community, but certainly at least a substantial part of it, not going to disagree with that.11:54
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Win7MacHi! Gently bumping this topic again:15:16
Win7MacAnybody knows something about tweaking flash version on N9?:
dm8tbrwho would ever want flash on a mobile device?15:20
dm8tbrI think you're quite alone with that15:21
Win7Macsome sites require it, e.g. watch live streams15:24
dm8tbrvideo-foo should work also with that old flash15:25
dm8tbralso mobile flash is dead, also on android15:26
Win7Macvideo-foo needs 10.2 at the very least, N9 only has 10.115:27
dm8tbryour problem would be to find a new enough flashplayer binary for X11 on ARMv7hl15:30
dm8tbrwhich simply might not exist15:30
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Win7Macit might be enough to fake a newer version, it works on N900 with this hack:
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dm8tbryou need to search for the version string of the installed version15:37
dm8tbrwhat is ther version installed on the device?15:37
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Win7Macon N9: 4.0.0-73.115:39
dm8tbrI doubt that this is the flash version string returned15:41
dm8tbrtry checking here with your N9:15:41
dm8tbrthat should show you the version15:41
dm8tbr works too as a short link15:43
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dm8tbrthen you should check the binary for occurences of 30312e or 31303515:48
Win7Machow do you make out this number?15:50
dm8tbractually the first one is 31302e15:50
dm8tbrthat's simply the hex representation of ASCII 10. and 10515:51
dm8tbryou could as well use strings on the file15:51
dm8tbrstrings /opt/adobe-flashplayer/|grep 10.1.10515:52
dm8tbrshould tell you if the string is in the binary15:52
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Win7Macmany thanks dm8tbr, will check15:56
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Win7Macdm8tbr, I can't find 30312e or 313035 with the hexeditor, but I do find 10_1_105_6 once, quite at the beginning16:05
dm8tbris it 10_1... or 10.1...?16:06
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dm8tbrtry 31305f16:06
Win7Mac31305f > not found16:07
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dm8tbrdoes your hex editor have a split view HEX and ASCII?16:08
Win7MacI'm fiddling with WinHex, it has both16:10
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dm8tbrthen just find the string you mentioned and change it to say the version you want, but make sure to only overwrite characters and not change the file length16:13
Win7Macwhich string?16:13
dm8tbr13:05:21< Win7Mac> dm8tbr, I can't find 30312e or 313035 with the hexeditor, but I do find 10_1_105_6 once, quite at the beginning16:14
Win7MacDo you know a version number that is supposed to work?16:14
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Win7Macmeh... free version of WinHex won't let me save files > kB16:20
Win7Mac> 200 kB16:20
Win7Macdm8tbr, would you be willing to test that?16:21
DocScrutinizer05Win7Mac: sed -i 's/10_1_105_6/10_2_105_6/' /opt/adobe-flashplayer/libflashplayer.so16:22
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DocScrutinizer05I suggest making a backup of that before, and rather ask twice here about aegispaegis implications16:22
Win7MacI'm afraid I break smth...16:23
DocScrutinizer05odds are you're in for a special reflash thanks aegis file protection16:23
Win7Maccould *you* test it?16:23
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DocScrutinizer05nah, I wouldn't even know the root password on harmattan anymore16:24
Win7MacI just don't wanna risk a reflash16:24
infobotmayIedit () { grep "`basename $1`" /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && return; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }16:24
Win7Mac^^ rootme if you haven't changed it16:24
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DocScrutinizer05you bet I change my passowrds ;-)16:24
Win7Macno, honestly could you check?16:25
DocScrutinizer05I mean... that would be a bit silly to keep the default one16:25
DocScrutinizer05honestly, I don't think I know how to do that16:25
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Win7Macsed -i 's/10_1_105_6/10_2_105_6/' /opt/adobe-flashplayer/libflashplayer.so16:26
DocScrutinizer05I'm quite sure I would brick my device16:26
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DocScrutinizer05and I never even touched inception, and I have PR1.0 still16:26
Win7MacBecause of aegis?16:27
Win7MacPR1.0 on N9 ??!!16:27
DocScrutinizer05and not planning to ever update16:27
DocScrutinizer05on n95016:27
DocScrutinizer05nfc what's on N916:27
DocScrutinizer05it's probably not even booting enymore. Battery dead16:28
DocScrutinizer05you should ask a harmattan hacker about that stuff16:28
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DocScrutinizer05binary editing of *.so is not trivial, particularly under aegis16:29
DocScrutinizer05safe ticket for a MALF and reflash16:29
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Win7Macthanks, I'll post on TMO for the more adventurous guys... ;-)16:29
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DocScrutinizer05harmattan explicitly designed to stop everybody from doing what you plan to do16:31
DocScrutinizer05that's why I'm not interested in it anymore16:32
Win7Macyeah, that's really too bad16:32
dm8tbrgeeeze dude16:34
dm8tbrway to be a pooper16:34
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JonniDocScrutinizer05:  well its pretty trivial, as long as you remember to resign refhashlist after the edit17:23
Win7MacHi Jonni!17:25
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Win7Macguys, please contribute here:
Jonniin tmo forums there is even perl script that does the magic for you if your not that familiar with aegis magic17:26
Win7MacI'm neither familiar with aegis nor refhashlist...17:27
Jonnibasicly after edit, you just take sha1sum of the new library, update the checksum in refhashlist file and then resign the refhashlist to avoid malf17:27
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DocScrutinizer05hmm, couldn't you rather re-sign a completely empty refhashlist then?17:32
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Win7MacMy IT knowledge is so rudimental, I deffo can't test it alone. But I'd love to see a guide here:
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JonniDocScrutinizer05: yes you can, but then binaries would have any capabilities to access to directories etc :)18:00
JonniDocScrutinizer05: so empty refhashlist is no go :)18:00
DocScrutinizer05oooh, right18:01
Jonnibut yes, in openmode if you make patched kernel, then you can resign refhashlist to be empty18:01
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Jonnifor me I just have a script, that checks if all sha1 checksums are correct, and if they are not, it just updates the checksum on refhashlist18:02
Jonni(and I've patches system binaries, in a way that even if it would trigger the malf screen, the boot just continues and malf screen is just informative and system still boots up :))18:03
DocScrutinizer05that's all fine but not everybody has a device with R&D cert like you do18:04
Jonnithats on device without R&D cert18:05
Jonnisystem binaries just think that it has :)18:06
Palihow is refhashlist protected against modifications?18:09
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Palican you edit sha1 checksum and coresponding binary with inception?18:10
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DocScrutinizer05Pali: refhashlist is signed18:14
DocScrutinizer05just like the package list of a repo ;-)18:14
Paliso is signed by nokia key? and who checking for signature?18:15
Paliand where is stored public key?18:15
Paliwhat is root of trust for refhashlist?18:15
Jonniits just signed with tcb-sign cabability, and yes ariadne and opensh has that exploited capa.18:26
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Jonnirepositories are signed with nokia ca, but refhashlist is signed with device specific key(s) (different key for secure side and different for openmode, pa(=~ arm trustzone kernel) generates it when mode is switched)18:29
Jonnipa side can only be access through libbb5 api's, so you really cannot access the key from kernel side.18:31
Win7MacJonni, can you test what you are suggesting and post results/step-by-step-guide here?:
JonniI dont see the point, flash is dead horse, and no use to beat it. Even if you fake your version number it doesnt mean that sites will work.18:33
Win7MacI know, but it works for many sites on N90018:34
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thedead1440Win7Mac: what's the issue then? you just change the number in the .so, sign refhashlist (if not in open mode) and done :)18:54
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Jonnithedead1440: he just doesnt want to search tmo about howto sign refhashlist and wants ready copy paste answer on the thread :)19:03
Win7MacI'm frightened of MALF, no clue what I'm actually doing there. Would love to find so who is more comfortable with this19:03
Win7MacNo, if it was that easy, why nobody already did it?!19:04
thedead1440Win7Mac: because nobody was really interested in it19:04
Jonninobody uses flash enables sites anymore19:04
thedead1440i for one stopped using flash the next day after installation19:04
Win7Macthen you're out of some sites19:04
Win7Mace.g. I canconcert-oh.com19:05
thedead1440i access them via my laptop ;)19:05
thedead1440the phone is too small for such things19:05
Win7Mac^^ scrap that19:05
thedead1440anyway i'll do it since i19:05
thedead1440i'm in open mode19:05
thedead1440i won't sign refhashlist though19:06
Win7Mace.g. I cannot sign in on with Flash 10.119:06
Win7Macand that's what I'm supposed to use when I'm on the road...19:06
Win7Macthedead1440, you'll try it? - Great!19:10
Win7MacI'm AFK for a little while19:11
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thedead1440well it doesn't seem to work; maybe i did something wrong but now its time for bed; will try it tomorrow19:14
Jonniwell you need to resign refhashlist even on openmode if you change libraries19:16
Jonniotherwise library doesnt get required capas and it doesnt work19:16
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thedead1440hmm but that isn't required when replacing the grob binary so it applies only for libraries?19:21
coderushey.wazapp nightly 23 released with fixed registration and connection issue. =)19:23
thedead1440coderus: :)19:27
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Win7MacHi coderus :)19:39
Win7Macyou ever tried to do the above?19:39
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Jonnithedead1440: well it applies to binaries too, aegis is always present, it is just more permissive on openmode.20:32
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Jonnisome people just think that there is no aegis in open mode, which is totally wrong idea, it is always there and if you screw refhashlist checksums, you lose capabilities and have only partially working device. MALF screens are disabled in openmode so you just dont notice it.20:35
Jonnithats the most common reason why people say that some things dont work in openmode, when usually its just their own fault that they have screwed and forgotten aegis.20:36
thedead1440hmm the last time i flashed my device was back in september i think when i had the docs app issue. since then i've been using a broken device as i've never updated refhashlist checksums20:36
Jonniwell luckily you can always update checksums in later phases too if you notice that somethings are not working perfectly20:37
Jonnilike in my openmode device has 100% same functionality in applications as in secure mode.20:38
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thedead1440well just updated my checksums; rebooting now :D20:39
thedead1440i just have never realized any functionality missing in my device; let's see if now onwards i discover something that wasn't there :D20:40
Jonniwell some people have complained about missing gps or ssl certs etc, but those work just fine.20:40
thedead1440those are most probably cases of pebkac ;)20:41
Jonnionly thing which needed a bit of tweaking was to get device lock code working in openmode, but that works too for me :)20:42
thedead1440yeah while we mortals have to wait for it to one day leak on the interwebz ;)20:42
thedead1440does refhashmake re-generate all checksums in refhashlist?20:46
thedead1440for example if i don't remember all the checksums i changed can't i generate a new refhashlist?20:47
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