IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2012-12-11

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evil_coremine n9 is unstable as hell while installing apps and multitasking00:17
evil_corerandom apps are closed00:17
evil_corebut I am very happy with it, after comparing to sister Galaxy S Advance, which catalog structure is random(wanted to copy music) and after uploafding 2GB of OGG's Music Player lagged as hell00:19
evil_corethe problems I got now, is that I cannot find Karaoke app and toolbar that showed ufter sliding down-to-middle is black or empty(no icons)00:21
evil_cored oyou know how its called?00:21
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evil_corehow to modify quick launch toolbar? (icons from it moved to 'apps' screen, and are doubled) :/01:16
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evil_corefixed it02:11
evil_coreanyway I was in parents home and I was sitting next to machine which acts as wifi-router, and while accessing n9 trough ssh it was as laggy, that VKB is 10 times quicker to use02:12
evil_corewhat could cause that?02:12
evil_coreits the only time I connected trough ssh to mine N902:13
SpeedEvilpowersavimg WiFi malfunctioning02:13
evil_coreits linux with atheros open driver, not madwifi, but those next02:16
evil_corenot sure if it could be hostapd or driver related02:17
evil_corecp --copy-contents -R ~/.q3a/baseq3/ /media/Nokia\ N9/Downloads/apps/games/02:22
evil_corecp: cannot create symbolic link ‘/media/Nokia N9/Downloads/apps/games/baseq3/Quake III’: Operation not permitted02:23
evil_core--copy-contents isn't enough?02:23
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njsf1should be02:54
njsf1but, you're using busybox not coreutils right ?02:54
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njsf1if so cp -R -P is probably better02:55
njsf1or even cp -R -d02:57
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HtheBanyone alive over here?03:07
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evil_corecp -R -L03:09
evil_coreit was host machine, to nokia n903:09
evil_corebtw, fo you remember which Tweak(N9QT?) did terminal system keys black?03:10
evil_coreI cannot find it and now when I set translucent VKB, those keys stays black03:11
DocScrutinizer05cp: cannot create symbolic link  means the target fs doesn't support symlinks I guess03:12
DocScrutinizer05which is historically the case for VFAT03:12
evil_coreright, I didn't wanted symlinks, but to copy contents03:12
evil_coreand -L helped03:12
evil_coreon host I have symlinks to ext4 w/o journal shared with windows03:13
HtheBdoes anybody has any experience with flashing Nemo on the N9/N950 ?03:14
HtheBI try to flash a dualboot, but it gives me this warning message:03:14
HtheBWARNING: bad moslo format in usr/share/moslo/moslo.img Picked ape-algo from a FIASCO file03:14
DocScrutinizer05it's about MOSLO, nemo is not relevant for this problem I'd guess03:15
evil_coreI never did it, but maybe use -a original_firmware03:15
HtheBwell, its a modified moslo file for dual booting03:16
HtheBaccourding to the wiki page03:16
DocScrutinizer05then it's stslkeeps to ask03:16
DocScrutinizer05aka Carsten Munk03:16
HtheBi know him :p03:17
HtheBbut I think he's asleep at this time03:17
DocScrutinizer05try aard, lbt, sage, iekku, marquiz03:18
DocScrutinizer05btw it's a warning, no error03:20
HtheByes, but as far as what I understood is03:21
HtheBthat it wont take the moslo.img as the file?03:21
HtheBmeh, just going to flash and see what happens03:21
evil_corediablo is older than freemantle, right?03:21
HtheBmaemo 4 = diable03:22
DocScrutinizer05and it's fremantle03:22
DocScrutinizer05not freemantle03:23
HtheBhaarmattan :P03:23
DocScrutinizer05also hear harmattan03:24
HtheBno way?03:24
DocScrutinizer05or marhattan03:24
evil_coreis there any karaoke app I could run on n9?03:26
DocScrutinizer05what is a karaoke app doing?03:27
DocScrutinizer05I mean, it probably can't do speech2text from the song03:28
DocScrutinizer05is there anything like a genuine karaoke-media-file format?03:28
evil_corereading cd+g(mp3+g, ogg+g) files or classical midi+lyrics files and playing/synthesizing them03:28
HtheBoh man03:29
HtheBnext error03:29
DocScrutinizer05seems difficult to sync lyrics text with generic mp303:29
HtheBseems like it worked, dualbooting03:29
evil_coretheir nbot generic mp3's03:29
HtheBbut the device couldn't make partitions03:29
evil_coretey don't have voice03:29
evil_coreSunFly Karaoke and other ocmpanies sells them03:30
HtheBERR: Re-partitioning failed! No partition created.03:30
HtheBneed to telnet it -_-03:30
evil_coreand older midi with embeded lyrics TiMidity can play03:30
DocScrutinizer05evil_core: so I'd guess they also embedd the lyrics in those files03:30
evil_corenot, graphics03:30
evil_coreits very old format, CDG03:30
evil_coreCompact Disc Graphics03:30
DocScrutinizer05nfc, sorry03:30
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evil_coreyou never were in Karaoke club?03:31
DocScrutinizer05no :-D03:31
DocScrutinizer05i heard they are very popular in Japan03:31
evil_coreI am from Poland, but I love Music and Karaoke03:31
evil_corethe worst thing is that N9 got only 64GB non-expandable memory :/03:32
DocScrutinizer05I'd bet a considerable amount of money that you can't find any karaoke club in my town here in Germany, with just one hour of searching03:32
DocScrutinizer05duh, 15s03:33
HtheBbar time lol03:34
DocScrutinizer05Letzte Aktualisierung: 28.09.2009   LOL03:35
HtheBDocScrutinizer05: i can't even telnet the device -_-03:37
HtheBall the others are dead I suppose03:37
HtheBDocScrutinizer05, got no experience with this?03:49
HtheBhmm :/03:50
HtheBI just dont know why the device doesnt make partitions :?03:50
HtheBit also tells me that I can telnet it, but I cant -_-03:50
DocScrutinizer05telnet? who's using telnet nowadays? try ssh03:51
DocScrutinizer05ooh wait, that's bootloader you're talking about?03:52
HtheBI'm on the bootloader now03:55
HtheBwith the green text03:55
DocScrutinizer05never tested that03:56
HtheBtelling me that it couldn't repartition03:56
HtheBglad that I still can boot into harmattan though03:56
evil_corewill it work on n9?03:56
HtheBevil_core: no03:56
DocScrutinizer05afaik there are no packages for HARM on maemo.org03:57
evil_coreflash can only be used under Firefox, or some symlinks can be  made like under linux?03:57
HtheBDocScrutinizer05: darn it... I just noticed that I can't even boot to Harmattan03:58
HtheBwhy do I always do those things at THIS time03:58
HtheBwhere everybody sleeps03:59
HtheBDocScrutinizer05: ive got this error when I want to reflash:04:02
HtheBError claiming USB interface: Operation not permitted04:02
HtheBmeh, sudo04:03
HtheBcaptain obvious....04:03
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DocScrutinizer05there are tasks you should start with typing `sudo su -`04:05
HtheBi just cant boot into harmattan... :D04:08
HtheBrestored moslo though04:08
HtheBbut... still no luck04:08
HtheBit goes untill the Nokia flashing04:08
HtheBand now it works!?04:09
HtheBok... glad i've got it working now (booted into harmattan)04:09
HtheBill do this stuff tomorrow then04:09
HtheBim sure why this error accours04:09
HtheBThe firmware is different i guess04:09
HtheB(leaked 1.3)04:09
* HtheB goes to sleep now04:10
DocScrutinizer05as a council member I probably should be more interested in all that stuff around HARM, but meh...04:10
DocScrutinizer05it's really giving me nausea04:11
HtheBI'm actually interested in jolla04:11
HtheBwhich led me to look into mer :)04:11
HtheBthats why I want to join this project04:12
HtheBbut the develish n950 stops me from joining it04:12
DocScrutinizer05since I wrapped my head around what it basically means when you're not allowed to downgrade to older OS versions, I stopped upgrading and basically lost interest04:13
DocScrutinizer05in HARM04:13
HtheBwell, im stuck in 1.304:13
HtheBn900 ftw04:14
DocScrutinizer05they sacrificed unbrickability for that insane aegis/security crap04:14
HtheBany particulair reason why they did that?04:14
SpeedEvilbecause the product design was for a range to sell in the tens of millions04:15
HtheBwell, itsnotabigtruck ftw04:15
SpeedEvilmaybe hundreds04:15
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: that's no justification04:15
SpeedEvilso, some sort of enhanced permission model seemed reasonable.04:16
SpeedEvilthe way they achieved it wasn't optimal.04:16
SpeedEvilfar from it.04:16
DocScrutinizer05NOT to disallow downgrade, which means no way to roll back to a working OS version when you got screwed04:16
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SpeedEvilthat's a questionable decision, yes04:17
HtheBSpeedEvil: i almost got f-ed04:17
HtheBjust a couple minutes ago04:17
HtheBbecause of that reason04:17
DocScrutinizer05"fsck you devels. Sorry but you'll need to buy a separate device for each OS version you want to test your app against"04:18
SpeedEvilI can see why they did it, and the rationale.04:18
SpeedEvilthat doesn't mean I agree with the way they implemented it04:18
DocScrutinizer05"what? you can't buy N950? too bad"04:18
SpeedEvilsome sort of free key release for all registered devs, for example04:19
HtheBis there really no way to roll back?04:19
DocScrutinizer05sure there is: send it in to Nokia care04:19
HtheBhow do they do it then?04:19
DocScrutinizer05they got the certs to flash whatever they like04:19
HtheBim sure if they can, we can too04:19
HtheBin other words04:19
HtheBwe need those certs....04:19
DocScrutinizer05good luck04:19
DocScrutinizer05I heard they sit under that microsoft drone's pillow04:20
HtheBwhy didnt any of the fired nokia members took the certs :(04:20
HtheBand "leaked"  them :(04:20
DocScrutinizer05not even normal nokians have any access to those certs04:21
SpeedEviland worries about future employment04:21
HtheBSpeedEvil: no one can tell who leaked them really04:22
HtheBjust like the pr1.3 for n95004:22
DocScrutinizer05very privileged employees may send their binaries to a signing-server to get then signed with the cert, and watersigned/stamped with their user name04:22
SpeedEviland probably those have all been fired04:22
SpeedEviland the key server shut down04:23
DocScrutinizer05probably in whole Nokia only 3 persons have access to the root cert itself04:23
DocScrutinizer05one admin, his boss, and elop04:23
HtheBadmin must die04:24
HtheBso is boss04:24
HtheBand elop04:24
HtheBwe were so peacefull a couple years back :/04:24
HtheBwish we could upgrade this beast....04:24
SpeedEvilin principle, you can swap the CPU for a 720MHz speed grade04:25
SpeedEvildoing that would be silly though04:25
HtheBi already OC it04:25
HtheB900mhz works just fine04:25
DocScrutinizer05nobody ever said it wouldn't work04:26
* SpeedEvil wonders about broken 64g n9s.04:26
DocScrutinizer05it just is way too much grinding your CPU04:26
HtheBnever had any problems untill now since 200904:26
HtheBwhat about them SpeedEvil ?04:26
HtheBthey probably are getting crushed into lumias.... :P04:27
SpeedEvildesoldering the flash chip, and putting in Nexus n704:27
HtheBi was once thinking of soldering the emmc04:28
HtheBto the N95004:28
HtheBwith its limited capacity :(04:28
HtheBdidnt had time for it though04:28
evil_coreoverclocking N9 is dangerous or not?04:30
DocScrutinizer05overclocking never is "dangerous" unless you do it on your ABS on your car, or your autopilot in your airplane04:31
DocScrutinizer05overclocking however will significantly reduce livespan of OMAP SoC04:31
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SpeedEvilwill reduce its warrantied life.04:33
evil_coreI don't want to overvoltage it radically04:33
DocScrutinizer05that's a conclusive coherent cahin of cause and effect04:33
evil_corefor me overclocking desktops were always relatively safe04:33
evil_corethere will be no PR1.4, right?04:33
DocScrutinizer05desktop CPUs are completely different to those embedded critters04:34
evil_corebut checking to so how much I can, to run it for a few hours is dangerous?04:34
DocScrutinizer05for desktop CPUs the problem is heat when overclocking, and actually it stops "working" since some calculation fails since done "too fast"04:34
DocScrutinizer05you hardly will ever find a x86 CPU you could overclock by factor 2. OMAP you can, in principle04:35
evil_corebecause some data corrupts, not because too fast ;-)04:35
DocScrutinizer05for OMAP it's a question of where electromigration starts04:36
evil_coreso its better to not even install that app if I love my 64gb N9?04:36
DocScrutinizer05for 3430 it's defined by TI that chip lives 100000 hours on every clock up to 500MHz, and 15000 hours at 600MHz04:37
DocScrutinizer05so 500->600 reduces lifespan by factor 804:37
DocScrutinizer05600->700 probably by another factor 20 on top of that04:38
DocScrutinizer05700->800 == factor 8 * 20 * 50 maybe04:38
evil_coresounds strange to me04:38
DocScrutinizer05nah, it's a pretty normal exponential curve04:39
evil_corewith every ARM its like that?04:39
DocScrutinizer05the chip design is fundamentally different to those for desktop CPU04:40
evil_coreinstalling FM antenna could be dangerous?04:40
DocScrutinizer05you can't install any FM antenna04:40
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evil_coreDocScrutinizer05: why? I heard N9 got FM transmitter, but antenna is not soldered inside04:41
DocScrutinizer05there's FM-RX 'antenna' circuitry to use wired headphone04:41
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DocScrutinizer05probably N9 even the chip doesn't have FMTX04:42
DocScrutinizer05N950 it has, but the pin isn't routed to anything you could solder on04:42
evil_coreDocScrutinizer05: are you sure? SO many peoples wrote that N9 got FMTx04:43
DocScrutinizer05how many of those got it working?04:43
evil_coreand nobody wrote that it got working on N950 too04:44
DocScrutinizer05since on N950 you can't get to the BGA ball that has antenna signal on it04:44
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DocScrutinizer05and even if you could, there's _no_ place in N950 to place the aerial to, since N950 backcover is alu in the middle04:45
evil_coref*** BGA :(04:46
evil_corebut what about hostmode on N9?04:47
DocScrutinizer05it should be possible, but really, I lost interest04:47
evil_coreOn forum I found but PR1.3 ChangeLog told something about that04:47
DocScrutinizer05since this OS makes me feel acute nausea each time I deal with it04:48
ToAruShiroiNekoany suggestions on how to fix gtalk on the n9?04:48
ToAruShiroiNekoI cannot use it for video or audio talk04:48
ToAruShiroiNekoalso DropN9 doesnt seem to connect either04:48
DocScrutinizer05and once I heard insider's rumour that some people in Nokia harmattan devel crew were looking into getting hostmode on HARM04:49
DocScrutinizer05nobody contacted me about it, so I thought WTF and stopped even thinking about it04:49
evil_coreeven that its amazing phone for me04:51
evil_coreI am going sleep, good night04:51
njsf1My Gtalk account on the N9 does not connect properly04:51
njsf1has anyone seen this before ?04:52
njsf1I checked in ~/.rtcom-accounts and the password is correct04:52
njsf1Any solution ?04:52
ToAruShiroiNekoits a problem I too am experiencing04:52
ToAruShiroiNekoI am unsure what the solution is04:53
njsf1I am sure it is something to do with the telepathy gtalk specific support04:53
njsf1because if I add a pure jabber account for the same account, that connects04:53
njsf1But then I guess the video talk is gone04:54
njsf1still have to verify...04:54
ToAruShiroiNekoI read something about telepathy too04:54
njsf1in the N900 the most frequent issue was that on connection failure it would loose the port number04:55
ToAruShiroiNekoI am not even sure what to do :/04:55
njsf1but it does not seem to be the issue now04:55
ToAruShiroiNekoin my case it connects fine and immidiately looses connection with an error04:55
njsf1hmmm interesting04:58
njsf1it tries to connect to a qa-in-f125.1e100.net04:58
ToAruShiroiNekothat looks like a spam site :p04:59 is google's cdn.04:59
njsf1well it is a google machine04:59
njsf1I guess I need to snoop the traffic05:00
ToAruShiroiNekostill its a terrible URL :305:00
DocScrutinizer05SpeedEvil: the problem with Aegis/security-framework/relatedstuff is the explicit change in paradigm Nokia did in HARM. They obviously abandoned the community collaboration for the core system, gave "community" this dalvik-metoo qt-* SDK where you can develop apps and nothing else, and tried to tivoize the core OS they stolen from linux as much as they possibly could05:00
SpeedEviland, yes05:01
njsf1And WTF is a connection to established...05:05
ToAruShiroiNekonjsf1 please let me know if you make any progress :/05:05
njsf1will do05:06
SpeedEvilthere is nothing at all wrong with the framework, if there were sensible exceptions. which there have not been, so it's hideously restrictive.05:07
DocScrutinizer05the wrong part in framework is that it's based on a wrong policy05:08
DocScrutinizer05tivoization policy05:08
DocScrutinizer05though I usually don't really agree with RMS, he's absolutely right about tivoization05:10
DocScrutinizer05particularly when it comes to HARM which got dr05:15
DocScrutinizer05derived from fremantle which been built by a lot of community contribution05:16
DocScrutinizer05so you could argue Nokia was kinda obliged to allow community to further use this FOSS stuff on Nokia phones based on it05:17
SpeedEviland yes. but that could have been done by 'allow installation from non market aources,' and other similar mechanisms05:19
DocScrutinizer05Linus' POV as stated at end of might apply to general linux, it doesn't really apply to maemo anymore05:20
SpeedEvilit would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they hadn't gone off Linux internally a few months after the n90005:20
DocScrutinizer05at least it seems jolla learnt the lessons from that Nokia borne put-on05:23
njsf1capture dump gets me nowhere05:24
virtualdhow u know jolla is real?05:25
njsf13 repeated packets size 40, no obvious protocol05:25
njsf1other than it seems to want to speak IPv605:25
njsf1Maybe I need to uninstall IPv6 support to get gtalk to work...05:25
njsf1but that will have to wait for tomorrow05:25
njsf1bye all05:26
DocScrutinizer05quite possible (IPv6)05:26
virtualduninstall ovi store application05:26
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ToAruShiroiNekoDocScrutinizer05 do you have any suggestions for me?05:38
DocScrutinizer05sorry, not really05:38
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tom____I may be being silly, but is is possible to copy the text of an email I have received?10:01
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Lava_CroftOpen Mode is nice12:59
Lava_CroftFeels better than inception12:59
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juicemeLava_Croft; Open mode is a lot safer than inception :)13:58
trxwhy is that?13:59
juicemewith open mode you are running with CAL area locked, which meand your (propably rogue) SW/mods cannot accidentally mess up with something important and irrepairable...14:00
juicemeWith inception it's free for all. You can brick your phone so that no flashing helps you.14:00
Lava_CroftBesides the fact that Inception was a bad movie14:01
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juicemeI have a strange kernel build problem... as I have 2 quite similar pc's, both with same OS (precise, 12.04) and same version of scratchbox.14:45
juicemeNow, I am building exactly the same image on both machines (let's say, for example the vanilla N9 kernel kernel_2.6.32-20121301+0m8.tar)14:47
juicememake rm581_defconfig ;  make -j514:47
juicemeBoth build the /arch/arm/boot/Image correctly, but only on the other I also get /arch/arm/boot/zImage14:48
juicemeOther environment complains like this;14:49
juicemearch/arm/boot/compressed/piggy.lzo.S:4: Error: file not found: arch/arm/boot/compressed/piggy.lzo14:49
juicememake[2]: *** [arch/arm/boot/compressed/piggy.lzo.o] Error 114:49
juicememake[1]: *** [arch/arm/boot/compressed/vmlinux] Error 214:49
juicememake: *** [zImage] Error 214:49
juicemeWhat am I missing here... I guess the bootstrap compression bit cannot be generated but what is causing that?14:51
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Jeffrey04anyone here uses vnc to connect to N9?18:14
Jeffrey04the screen lock timeout seems broken after using VNC18:14
Jeffrey04rebooting doesn't fix the problem18:15
rigohave used vnc, did not have that issue18:16
Jeffrey04reseting the settings fixed the problem18:16
Jeffrey04but I don't want to reset it again18:16
Jeffrey04weird :(18:17
rigouse another vnc client?18:17
Jeffrey04tried with 2 different clients18:17
Jeffrey04don't know which triggers the problem18:17
rigolook into .xession-errors18:18
Jeffrey04under ~ ?18:18
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rigonot on the phone, there is none, I realize18:20
Jeffrey04erm, ok18:21
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Jeffrey04weird, it is now back to normal18:22
Jeffrey04rigo: thanks for the help18:22
* rigo is not a dev on N9, so just some linux knowledge18:23
* Jeffrey04 not a qt dev18:24
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Lava_CroftAw, tried to solution to GOogle Calendar giving "storage full" error with CalDav sync, but it seems i still get the error :<18:57
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suosaaskiWhee, got a new display on my N9, nice improvement in pic quality20:29
suosaaski(quality was the reason it was sent to service)20:30
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suosaaskiIt had some thin lines across the display when looked at closely with certain apps/pictures, now it has a new panel and everything is fine :)20:47
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* SpeedEvil is looking for broken n9s to do evil things to.20:50
SpeedEvil(desolder flash to put in my n7)20:50
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Sazpaimon"hidden symbol `__sync_fetch_and_sub_4' in /scratchbox/compilers/cs2009q3-eglibc2.10-armv7-hard/bin/../lib/gcc/arm-none-linux-gnueabi/4.4.1/libgcc.a(linux-atomic.o) is referenced by DSO"21:09
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Sazpaimonanyone know what would cause this error and how to fix it?21:09
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juicemeNever came across that kind of error... what are u compiling?21:36
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Sazpaimoni just ran it with --disable-atomic for now21:42
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Sazpaimonok awesome22:55
Sazpaimonyate is working great on my N9, I can send and recieve calls directly from my google voice number over wifi22:55
Sazpaimonmy only issue is, on my recent calls list, numbers made through SIP show up as "sip:5555555555@"22:56
Sazpaimonis that normal?22:56
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pawtf? on PR1.3 the capa uid:root doesnt work anymore?23:02
pano, apparently shell scripts cant be run from desktop?23:05
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