IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2012-05-27

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Stecchinodjszapi: no, but I didn't investigate further after seeing with strace that there might be a plugin search pad problem00:28
Stecchinodidn't have time since then00:28
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djszapiStecchino: oh ok02:53
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ZogG_laptoptgalal: lol03:32
ZogG_laptopwhy didn't you tell me it was #gentoo03:32
tgalalI eventually did :P03:32
tgalalZogG_laptop: aparantly the whole is down03:34
ZogG_laptoptgalal: i dunno those sites =\03:35
tgalalZogG_laptop: awardspace is my host03:35
ZogG_laptoptgalal: why don'y you use github pages instead?03:35
tgalalZogG_laptop: I might do so03:35
ZogG_laptoptgalal: few questions.03:35
ZogG_laptop1) is there option to get notifications regardless to app status?03:36
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tgalalZogG_laptop: app status, as in running/closed ?03:39
ZogG_laptopas sometimes it crashes and we don't know i it's running03:39
tgalalZogG_laptop: Ah no, that's not possible, unless I'm using Notification API, which I'm not sure Whatsapp supports it for Nokia's Notification API, or if we could use Android's03:45
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tgalalZogG_laptop: server is back :)\03:46
ZogG_laptoptgalal: i got it from github03:46
ZogG_laptoptgalal: but thanks. btw i don't find all emoji, those with people (princess and faces)03:47
ZogG_laptopand in preview of textbox they are displayed different — i like it mroe than original03:48
tgalalZogG_laptop: from within over 400 emoji, this is the one you're looking for :P03:48
tgalalZogG_laptop: you mean you like the current way of display in textbox?03:48
ZogG_laptoptgalal: i would like it as default one03:49
ZogG_laptoptgalal: let's say those more usefull than numbers =)03:49
tgalalZogG_laptop: how many hours did you say it took you to fix blocks on gentoo ? :P03:51
ZogG_laptoptgalal: not really a lot, it was more waiting till it builds as i did build few packages separetly, before i could run emerge -uND world03:55
ZogG_laptopcommon problems03:55
ZogG_laptoptgalal: need help?03:56
tgalalZogG_laptop: it's getting stable now03:56
tgalalactually I decided couple of days ago to leave everything as it is (broken) untill I have more time03:56
tgalalbut then the laptop battery accidentally ran out of charge and it turned off03:57
ZogG_laptoptgalal: lol03:57
ZogG_laptoptgalal: if need help - tell me03:57
ZogG_laptopi'm pretty good with gentoo03:58
tgalaland then I realised how much the system is broken after switching it on again lol03:58
ZogG_laptopi can be gentooul with you =P03:58
ZogG_laptoptgalal: what didn't run?03:58
tgalalWell udev wasn't starting03:58
ZogG_laptoptgalal: you needed to recompile kernel right?03:59
tgalalit turned later it needed an kernel upgrade03:59
ZogG_laptopi got it today (as last time i just restarted X)03:59
ZogG_laptoptgalal: btw can you check something, where does it mount media?03:59
ZogG_laptopi found out that after restart of udev /dev/sde1 on /run/media/zogg/New04:00
tgalaloh I I'll check04:00
ZogG_laptopwhen it was /media/New before04:00
tgalallinuxioctl.h:22:44: fatal error: linux/ext2_fs.h: No such file or director04:00
ZogG_laptoptgalal: where did you get it?04:01
ZogG_laptopand do you hve ext on kernel?04:01
tgalalcompiling syslinux04:01
ZogG_laptophow did you build new? from scratch or oldconfig?04:01
tgalal1 sec04:01
tgalalold config04:01
ZogG_laptoptgalal: what DE you use?04:02
tgalalcurrently fluxbox04:02
tgalalgnome was one of casualties lol04:03
tgalalZogG_laptop: do I need to config from scratch?04:07
ZogG_laptoptgalal: config what?04:07
ZogG_laptopi dont think so04:08
ZogG_laptopi use awesome on latop and xfce4 on desktop04:08
ZogG_laptoptgalal: no you don't just thought that error was related to kernel04:08
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tgalalZogG_laptop: masked it04:29
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GonzoTheGreat_Does anybody know how to make a QML LandmarkCategoryFilter work? I have custom landmarks added in c++ which I'd like to display in a MapObjectView.09:09
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GonzoTheGreat_In c++ it works, but I can't get it to work in qml09:25
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djszapibeford: ping12:35
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* djszapi is thinking of publishing an "Ovi daily fun reviews" app to Ovi...12:42
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GonzoTheGreat_ /msg NickServ identify ircsucks15:40
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ZogG_laptopnice password he used there15:52
TronicI have always been afraid of making that very specific mistake.15:52
TronicEither somehow blurbing that on a channel or doing it on another network where some wiseguy is using the nick "nickserv".15:52
SpeedEvil- though with my most secret rot password15:53
SpeedEvilGet up - unplug DSL modem, swear a bit.15:53
dm8tbrTronic: most networks that don't have services have those nicks banned/reserved. btdtmto15:57
ZogG_laptopTronic: that's why you do it in status tab15:57
dm8tbralso  a classic  is: your screen is off, you think it's locked itself, you blindly hack in your password and press enter. whoops it wasn't locked and your irc shell had the focus... btdt15:58
TronicZogG_laptop: Actually I've configured Irssi to do it automatically for me.16:00
TronicWorks most of the time at least, maybe not quite 100 % but almost.16:00
Tronicdm8tbr: I never press Enter before the screen turns on.16:01
TronicStill bad enough if you have someone standing next to you, looking at the screen.16:01
TronicAnother common one: you ssh somewhere and start typing your password a bit too early, so that it appears on screen instead of being hidden on the password prompt.16:02
dm8tbrnowadays my password is too long for the keyboard buffer, so I have to wait...16:02
TronicWhy would a screen locker app take more than a millisecond to react is beyond me, though.16:03
Tronic(well, make that more than 17 ms, the time to draw a single frame, to be fair)16:03
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aparaattiBeen There Done That17:00
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ZogG_laptopTronic: me too here with autologin in irssi and autologin in xchat on desktop, but in case you do it, do it on nickserv or status tab =)18:43
aquariuswhen running a harmattan QML app in scratchbox with Xephyr, I can include QtMultimediaKit which gives me the QML audio element, but... I don't actually get any actual sound when I use it, which makes it hard to tell if it's working :) Can I get sound from a scratchbox environment?18:43
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Elleoaquarius: I've had sound out of the scratchbox by using phonon directly19:02
Elleoaquarius: that was in an X86 target, not sure if it'd work in an armel target19:02
aquariusElleo, ah, phonon. I'm doing all this from QML, rather than from C++...19:02
aquarius(in an x86 target)19:02
ElleoI haven't tried doing any sound from QML, but sound from scratchbox in general seems possible at any rate19:04
aquariusthat's encouraging, at least in theory :)19:04
aquariussound works fine *on* the n9, which is also nice19:04
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aquariusgrr, head on the n9 doesn't have -c19:05
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aquariusok, now comes the fun test... if I alter an mp3 on the filesystem *while it's playing*, does Qt notice that and work? :)19:09
aquariuscrap. No it doesn't.19:11
Elleowhat're you trying to achieve?19:11
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aquariusstream music from the U1 servers, and cache it on the filesystem *and* play it at the same time. Without writing any C++, or ideally any Python :)19:12
aquariusI thought it might be a bit hopeful. So, I either (a) can't use QML Audio for this, or (b) you can only *play* a song once it's downloaded, rather than while it's download*ing*.19:12
ElleoI suppose qml's magic network transparency doesn't extend to streaming music? (with a similar cache option to the one for images)19:12
aquariuswell. I can't get a QML Audio element to play something direct from a URL *at all*19:13
Elleoah, that sucks19:13
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aquariuseven if I could, there appears to be no way to cache it.19:13
aquariuswhich is, y'know, infuriating19:13
aquariusI really, really, really do not want to have to write a playback thingy in python when QML Audio exists.19:13
Elleopython and gstreamer ;)19:14
aquariusI mean, I *can*, it's just bally hard. :)19:14
Elleotee the source off to a playing pipeline and a filesink19:14
aquariusby comparison with saying: QML, here is an Audio element, play it.19:14
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aquariusah well. So, now to debate whether to do it the proper but hard way, or just take the chicken's way out. :)19:15
Elleoyourpipeline = gst.parse_launch("urisrc location='%s' ! tee name=t  t. ! queue ! filesink location='%s'  t. ! queue ! decodebin ! audioconvert ! autoaudiosink" % (mp3url, cachedestination); yourpipeline.set_state(gst.STATE_PLAYING)19:16
Elleoor something to that effect19:16
Elleo(completely untested)19:16
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aquariusya; that's obviously the Right Thing To DO19:18
aquariusalthough... hm, doing that means that if I stop playback it'll stop downloading and caching it too, won't it?19:18
aquariusI wonder if *gstreamer* will correctly adapt if I give it a file and then overwrite that file with a longer one while it's playng?19:19
Elleoaquarius: I expect it probably reads everything it can as quickly as possible, so probably won't be reading the file anymore by that point19:19
Elleoalso s/urisrc/souphttpsrc/ in my previous pipeline19:20
Elleoand it appears to work (minus your problem of stopping it)19:20
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aquariusand you are correct -- gstreamer does not correctly adapt to a file which changes while it's playing.19:40
aquariusobviously the master plan was to just download to a file, and then point gstreamer *at* that file while it was still downloading, which would be ideal if it worked, which it doesn't :)19:41
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aquariusand I think I need to do the download and play steps separately anyway, because you might do this: add two songs to the queue, neither of which are downloaded, and start playing. Song 1 starts downloading and starts playing, but it downloads faster than realtime... when song 1 finishes downloading, song 2 should start downloading, while song 1 is still playing19:42
aquariusthen when song 1 finishes playing, song 2 should start playing, even if it's only partially downloaded.19:43
aquariushow the hell do our android and iOS clients handle this nightmare, I wonder?19:43
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aquariusheh, QDeclarativeNetworkAccessManagerFactory. I wonder if Audio uses that.19:57
aquariusfor extra comedy, QML Audio elements on my N9 don't support playing from an SSL url.20:02
aquariusso that's that idea gone for a Burton, then. I shall *have* to download it myself :)20:02
aquariusis gstreamer the way you're *supposed* to do media stuff on harmattan?20:05
aquariuson the grounds that there are no python bindings for it :)20:06
mankeliis python a supposed way to do anything? :)20:07
aquariusor am I meant to use QSound ?20:07
mankeligstreamer is afaik the lower level api20:07
mankeliand qt uses that20:07
aquariusmankeli, well, if someone wants to say "writing N9 apps in Python is a hopeless task, give up and use C++ for everything", then I will happily throw my phone away and buy something else ;-)20:07
aquariusbut I am currently fighting a lonely battle against the C++ war machine :P20:07
mankeliafaik qt-wrapped stuff is the only "supposed" way of doing anything on harmattan20:08
mankelikind of official way20:08
aquariusmankeli, right, yeah. I am reading about QSound now20:09
aquariussince right at the moment I don't think doing more low-level direct-to-gst work will actually buy me anything :)20:10
mankeliwell especially if there is a python api for qsound, it's probably better to use20:10
aquariusthere seems to be20:11
aquariusalthough QSound is the most barebones API ever. Play a sound... or stop it. That's it. Duration? onFinished event? Metadata? not for you :-)20:12
* aquarius rtf-pyside/phonon-m20:12
mankeliwould qtmultimedia help you?20:14
aquariushm, gpodder must do this simultaneous download-and-playback stuff.20:14
mankeliand there's also that phonon module20:14
aquariusmankeli, yeah, that's what I was looking at before; QML's Audio object was where I started, but it doesn't do https, usefully. Maybe I can use the QtMobility stuff from python, though20:14
aquariusQMediaPlayer looks like the answer, here. Now I get to read loads more docs. :)20:16
mankeliyey :)20:16
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Elleoaquarius: if you do want to use gstreamer from python I can send you a precompiled version of the bindings that you can build into your package20:31
aquariusElleo, thanks, but no. Doing something like that is about four miles beyond the "this is way too much effort, just use the website" horizon ;)20:31
aquariusI think this QMediaPlayer stuff might help, but I want to talk to our android/ios people and work out how they're handling this caching thing.20:32
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diorahmanmy n950 doesn't give any response to flasher -i, is there a way to re-flash the bootloader (NOLO?) via other ports except USB?20:42
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aquariusthp, ping?21:07
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thpaquarius: pong21:09
aquariusthp, in gpodder, if someone starts playing a podcast before it's completely downloaded, how do you handle that? When the audio stuff says "ok, that's finished playing", do you look at the file and think "hang on, it only got halfway through the full duration; I'll load that file and play it again, but seek to their last position"?21:12
thpaquarius: when you play it before it has been (completely) downloaded, the playing is streaming21:13
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thpi think right now, i don't switch to the file when the download is finished21:13
aquariushm. How do you stream it *and* save the file to disk at the same time? :)21:13
thpwell yeah, that's kind of wasteful.. but easier21:13
thpstreaming happens via QML's Audio element21:14
thpdownloading via the gpodder core21:14
thpwhenever playback of an episode starts, it's checked whether to play it from MyDocs or stream it from the download url21:14
dm8tbrdiorahman: what did you do to the device that you thing this is what would help you?21:14
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infobotdm8tbr meant: diorahman: what did you do to the device that you think this is what would help you?21:15
aquariusthp, what I'm not quite following is, er, if I say "play this file" and it's not downloaded, you just stream it from the download URL and it is never downloaded and saved into MyDocs at all? Or do you download it to the device *twice*, once direct into the QML Audio element and then again by gpodder core onto the filesystem?21:16
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thpaquarius: yes, if you just stream it, the stream is not saved21:18
aquariusthp, oh. Darn. I was hoping you had some super-clever solution that I hadn't thought of ;-)21:18
thpi can't really feed "incomplete" or streaming data to QML Audio AFAIK21:18
thpotherwise that would be cool21:18
aquariusI can't stream the music i want to play, because QML Audio doesn't support https on N9, uselessly. :(21:18
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thpaquarius: you could create a fifo file and have your program write to it (reading from https) and let qml audio "play back" that fifo?21:19
aquariusooh. a fifo.21:19
thpwhat's your use case btw?21:19
aquariusthat's mildly complex. :)21:19
aquariususe case: playing streaming music from Ubuntu One21:19
thpand i guess you want to avoid doing "two downloads" of the same data?21:21
aquariusactually, the fifo trick won't help me save and play back at the same time, 'cos the thing which saves to the filesystem will read all the bytes out of the fifo and then the audio player won't have anything left to play :)21:21
aquariusthp, well. I'd do two downloads if I could -- it's inefficient and I'd certainly like to avoid it, but I'm quite lazy. However, I can't -- QML Audio doesn't do https, and Ubuntu One is all https. So I *have* to do something other than just point QML's Audio at the download URL :)21:22
thpaquarius: couldn't that app that reads from https just save both to disk (as a file) and write the same data to the fifo?21:22
aquariusit could, but we might be downloading a song well in advance of playing it, which means we'll run out of buffer in the fifo21:23
aquariusthis would all be perfect if any audio system at all anywhere coped with you overwriting a file while it's playing. But they do not ;)21:24
thpaquarius: i haven't checked how qml audio deals with reading from a download-in-progress file21:24
aquariusI have. :) It plays up to the point where the file ended when it started playing21:25
aquariusannoyingly enough :)21:25
aquariusI think maybe I'll do the idea of checking when a playback hits EOF whether it's the same EOF as it was when we started21:25
thpof course! ;) otherwise that would have been too easy :p21:25
aquariusand if it isn't, then play the file *again* but seek to the current point.21:25
thpi mean, you could probably use gstreamer's low-level api, but that's probably overkill21:25
aquariushaving to do this is a pain in the hole by comparison with how gstreamer should do it for me, but there it is :)21:25
thpyeah, and qml audio is just so simple and easy to use (and also takes care of stuff like pausing when the headphones are unplugged)21:26
aquariusraw gstreamer does the same thing as QML, here; if you start playing a file and then overwrite the file while still playing, it plays up to where the file ended when it started playing21:26
aquariusexactly. I really don't want to write a whole complex gst thing when QML's just there for me :)21:26
aquariusso, that sounds like the way. Darn it. I was hoping it'd be less fiddly than this. Never mind :)21:27
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thpbut i think the fifo solution would be kind of cool21:28
thpyou would have to have some coordination between the gui and the downloader, though21:28
thpand check if you can write non-blocking to the fifo21:28
thpwrite a http proxy that sits locally and exposes the audio via http, let the QML audio connect to it and forward the requests to u1's https (and save the stream while passing data through)21:29
* aquarius gives thp a long-suffering look21:30
aquariusthat'd work, I suppose21:30
aquariusoverkill, much? Stupid QML. :-)21:30
aquariusif I have to write a mini caching http proxy just to get QML to play things then I'm going to find someone who works for Nokia and pour a cup of tea into their lap21:31
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aquariusactually...if QML does stuff with range requests then I wouldn't even need to make it a *proxy*, per se -- I'd just open an http server which serves the filesystem, but if you request a file which is in the process of downloading, I'll just lie about how long it is. :)21:33
thpand write it in a generic way, so that i can steal it and use it for gpodder :p21:35
ZogG_laptopthp: do you code only in pyhton?21:35
thpZogG_laptop: no, not only but still mainly21:36
thpaquarius: <- the MediaButtonsHandler class might be helpful if you want to support bluetooth headset buttons (that's not handled by qml audio directly)21:40
aquariusooh, that sounds nice21:40
aquariusalthough I don't have a BT headset, so testing will be hard:)21:40
thpif you plan to get one, I'd recommend something like the BH-214 - it has a 3.5mm slot, so you can use it with all kinds of line in stuff, not just headphones21:43
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aquariusbah, I wish QML Audio had an onDurationIsNowAvailable event.22:20
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thpaquarius: it does22:40
thplet me find the link22:41
aquariusnot according to the documentation it doesn't ;)22:41
thpaquarius: onDurationChanged and then check for duration > 022:41
aquariusI am eager to see this!22:41
aquariushmph. Entirely *undocumented* signal. Thanks, QML.22:41
thpactually that's an implicit signal22:42
thpfor every "property", you have a "onPropertyChanged" signal whenever it changes22:42
aquariuswow, no-one tells me anything22:42
aquariusOK, that's the most useful piece of information I've heard ever in the whole of today.22:43
* aquarius adds a tally mark to the "beers I owe thp" list.22:43
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aquarius"this" isn't bound.23:09
aquariushow can I call a QML widget's method from inside another method without using the widget's ID?23:09
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Jaffaaquarius: By "method" you mean function? If so, you just do foo() - rather than
aquarius(that is: I could just do this... Thingy { id: thingy1; onSomething: { thingy1.somethingElse() } } )23:10
aquariusJaffa, oh, really?23:10
aquariusI just don't qualify it at all?23:10
Jaffaaquarius: Exactly.23:10
aquariusExcellent, that works23:11
aquariusI didn't think of that23:11
aquariusbecause it is mad. :-)23:11
aquariusthanks, Jaffa :)23:11
Jaffaaquarius: It's standard JavaScript and, from your "this" I assume a Java background, Java too23:12
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aquariusJaffa, nah, I'm a JS guy. It's standard JS if the functions are closed over, right enough, but then they're not available from outside :)23:13
Jaffaaquarius: Indeed. QML is file-level scope, I think (rather than item-level)23:13
aquariusvar Thingy = function() { var inner = function() {}; this.outer = function() { inner(); } }; var thingy = new Thingy(); :-)23:14
aquariusso I instinctively think of things declared as visible from outside to require "this." on the front :)23:14
Jaffaaquarius: Those are anonymous functions. Same as when you do onSomething: { somethingElse() }. But "somethingElse" is just defined with "function somethingElse() { ... }"23:14
JaffaQML syntax edge cases: you could write a book on 'em ;-)23:15
aquariustrue enough, on both counts :)23:16
aquariusthe grey area is where QML's idiosyncracies and *my* idiosyncracies collide. :)23:16
thpiirc you can even call functions in "outer" qml objects deeper in the object tree23:19
Jaffathp: Yes, the scoping of 'id' is something I'm either confused about, worried about or ignoring depending on my mood.23:21
aquariusaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh bloody qml!23:21
aquariusoverwriting a file while it's playing *sometimes* updates the duration.23:21
* aquarius headbutts the keyboard23:21
* Jaffa beds23:21
thp <- example of that23:22
aquariusthat means I can't tell the difference, inside the Audio object, between "we stopped because we'd run out of file, but the file's been updated and there is actually more to play and I ignored it" and "the user pressed stop before the end".23:22
thpJaffa: yep, you can do "anchors.centerIn: myObject" in a .qml file and the id myObject is defined somewhere else ;) which is kind of weird (and confusing to the reader)23:22
thpaquarius: maybe you can detect it via "status"?
thpEndOfMedia vs InvalidMedia or something maybe?23:23
aquariuswell. status seems to be *load* status, not playing status: in particular, if you've played to the end of a file and then start playing it again, status seems to always be 6 for EndOfMedia even while it's playing :(23:25
aquariusmildly pleased with this, though; it seems to work.23:25
aquariusbut I can test for that by trapping duration updates which happen while playing, can't I?23:26
thpyep, i guess so23:28
aquariushaha! it works!23:32
aquariusglory be.23:32
aquariusnow to decide on a name for the component23:32
aquariusbit passive-aggressive.23:33
aquarius should be the basics of a reusable component (although I haven't split it out into a separate file yet) -- test it by getting a reasonably short mp3 file and pointing "source" at it, pressing the window to play, and then *while it's playing* overwrite the short mp3 file with a longer mp3 file23:38
aquariusit should play to the point where the short mp3 file ended, and then carry on with the rest of it23:39
SpeedEvilyou mean it skips back to the beginning when it hits the end?23:40
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aquariusif you get to the "end", but the file has grown in the meantime, then it reloads the file and continues playing from where you got to.23:43
aquariusso it's relatively seamless23:43
aquariusyou do get a little click/jump in the music23:43
aquariusbut, well, fixing that is absurdly low-level; if someone wanted to fix that they might as well fix gstreamer to handle a playing file changing while playing :P23:44
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SpeedEvilThat seems like insanity.23:46
SpeedEvilIt's going to mess up badly on some mp3 changes.23:46
ieatlintyou'd need to change how you load the audio... doing it from a fileio isn't going to work23:48
ieatlintyou can't buffer something if you change the source23:48
SpeedEvilDepending on how the 'replace' is done - it may not work at all.23:48
ieatlintyou'd need to do it on the c++ side, and stream the audio to it23:48
SpeedEvilIf something has deleted the file - and replaced it - then you have a deleted file-handle that remains the original file until you close it at which time it's dropped.23:49
ieatlintyeah, i was impressed that it would work... qt is handling the file descriptor change better than i'd expect23:49
SpeedEvilIf something overwrites the file - then it's going to depend on caching behaviour.23:49
ieatlintperhaps qt proxies an fd for the qml component, and in the component it detects the "source" changed23:50
SpeedEvilAnd the decoder not barfing on format changes.23:50
ieatlintwould be my guess23:50
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