IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2012-04-21

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itsnotabigtruckdammit :| windows failed to sleep again00:11
itsnotabigtrucki need to figure out what's at the root of this00:12
trip0i win00:12
* trip0 bows00:12
itsnotabigtrucklinux isn't exactly known for perfect suspend/softsuspend functionality00:12
trip0who suspends?00:12
itsnotabigtruckon windows, it works, until it doesn't, on linux, it just plain doesn't work :p00:13
trip0suspend worked great on my laptop on ubuntu 11.1000:13
itsnotabigtruckand it's really really useful if you move around a lot with a laptop00:13
trip0hasn't worked since i upgraded tho00:13
itsnotabigtrucksuspend, toss in a bag, go00:13
trip0i honestly don't miss it much...  this thing boots so fast it's almost the same00:14
trip0but working suspend would be nice00:14
itsnotabigtruckit's not about the boot times, it's about having your apps stay open00:14
trip0yeh, kde opens up all my apps00:14
trip0but they aren't in the same state as they were when i closed-the-lid00:14
itsnotabigtruckit won't reflect exactly how it was before you powered off00:15
itsnotabigtruckin fact i don't understand why you'd want to launch all your apps automatically on bootup00:15
itsnotabigtruckit makes sense for stuff like im clients that are supposed to be always on00:15
trip0i bet it'll get fixed by the time this is a stable release (ubuntu sid)00:15
itsnotabigtrucknot for stuff like browsers, file browsers, terminals, editors, etc.00:15
trip0it's pretty useful00:15
trip0i always have the same stuff open all the time00:16
trip0it's annoying when it opens up crap i use only once-in-a-blue-moon tho00:16
itsnotabigtruckthe big disadvantage of suspend is that it's insecure00:17
itsnotabigtruckcompared to poweroff00:17
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Jareis there any audio recording software with manual gain control?00:23
Jarefor the n900:23
itsnotabigtruckJare: want to test my opptimizer package / bootstrap program00:24
itsnotabigtruckyou need to have inception and a stock kernel00:24
Jarewhat does it do00:25
itsnotabigtruck(same to anyone else btw trip0 etc. ^)00:25
itsnotabigtruckit just takes care of the aegis stuff to get the opptimizer modules loaded00:25
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Jaremmkay, sorry I don't have time for that atm, but thanks anyways00:26
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itsnotabigtruck mirror's edge 2 better not end up being an xbox 720 exclusive00:28
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ElleoI'm running up against a strange problem where by LD_LIBRARY_PATH doesn't seem to be used when logged in as the developer user17:20
Elleoworks fine as root or as "user"17:20
Elleobut if I export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=something as developer it doesn't appear in env's output, although I can 'echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH' and see its setting17:21
Elleoand it doesn't get used when running applications17:21
Elleohas anyone else come across something like that?17:21
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DocScrutinizerthere's sth like that in sudo manpage, also in ssh and whatnot else19:36
DocScrutinizerand I guess aegis also wants to mess with the whole thing19:37
DocScrutinizerafter all LD_* allows you to tweak/root basically everything19:37
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ElleoDocScrutinizer: I don't understand why it'd be restricted for developer and not root or user though :/19:42
DocScrutinizerwell, ask paegis, I guess19:43
DocScrutinizereven root != root19:43
Elleoit's not a big deal now that I know what's happening, I can just do my testing as user; was just curious what was going on19:43
DocScrutinizerand devel-su != develsh != ssh -l root19:44
DocScrutinizersay "thanks you platsec" for all that puzzling config19:46
DocScrutinizeraiui even ssh from "outside" is different to ssh loopback on device19:47
Elleoactually perhaps it is something odd develsh is doing, since that's developer's default shell, whereas root and user seem to be both set to /bin/sh19:48
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DocScrutinizeraccli -L; iirc19:53
DocScrutinizeror -l19:53
DocScrutinizerthen try to figure what's going on19:53
DocScrutinizerprobably some aegis wizard can come up with sth even more enlightening, on what's your "policy" in effect19:54
DocScrutinizerand why exactly that policy got picked for this login19:55
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DocScrutinizerfor me it's a maze that makes me wanna cry19:55
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sneakyc4I'm getting trouble with having ssh daemon starting since pr1.220:03
sneakyc4actually it 's never started since20:03
sneakyc4how can I start it manually?20:03
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sneakyc4ha, need to remove/re-install dev package so as to get sshd back20:29
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trxI have a QGraphicsProxyWidget with TouchEvents enabled on my QML Page. The problem is that when a menu is opened(over that proxy widget) and some menu item is touched, the touch event is sent to the proxy and not the menu.. is this a bug or am i doing something wrong? any ideas?22:15
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RzRhi gabriel922:41
gabriel9what's up?22:42
gabriel9any interesting stuff going on in world of N9?22:42
RzRi am was looking at
RzRgabriel9, about n9 ? well there are the qt5 demos ... and upcoming pr1.3 firmware22:44
gabriel9qt5 demos?22:45
gabriel9i look at TabGroup, and i create some tabs. But i also have MainPage which is also initialPage. I can switch through tabs but i also see mainPage in background :/22:46
itsnotabigtruckso is qt5 supposed to be installed in parallel with qt422:49
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lildeimosanother news is that S. Elop is kicking off his a**22:49
itsnotabigtruckor does it completely replace qt422:50
itsnotabigtrucklildeimos: hm?22:50
itsnotabigtruckrzr: ^^22:50
gabriel9i also hear something like that22:51
lildeimosseems that Elop is firing himself from nokia22:51
gabriel9i can't belive that22:51
itsnotabigtruckwell, nokia's entire sales strategy hasn't been anything great22:52
itsnotabigtruckthat probably isn't helping much22:52
SpeedEvilWhich is somewhat irrelevant.22:52
RST38hwell, gentlemen, if lumias donot sell, isn't it the sales department problem? OFF WITH HIS HEAD!22:52
SpeedEvilThe important part is - what are the agreements requiring them to do WRT windows.22:52
itsnotabigtruckthe article is that they booted out their vp of sales, right?22:52
SpeedEvilAnd also - what does the board think about n9/...22:53
itsnotabigtruckor something along those lines22:53
gabriel9everyone thinks that N9 is great22:53
SpeedEvilErr - that's not Elop22:53
RST38hthat is why it has to bekilled22:53
RST38hcan't have great burning platform22:54
itsnotabigtrucke.g. north america is a bloody huge market for any sort of electronics...yet nokia's sales strategy for the us and canada is "let's pretend the us and canada don't exist"22:54
RST38hneed to have bad sinkingone22:54
itsnotabigtruckthat isn't ok22:54
RST38hitsnot: you are a bit out of date22:54
itsnotabigtruckin fact that seems to be a problem with most european companies...they make no attempt to market in north america then wonder why things don't sell22:54
RST38hitsnot: and not very knowledgable about the old situation either22:54
itsnotabigtruckthe lumia launch is the one and only exception22:55
gabriel9people just don't want windows on their phones :/22:55
* RST38h yawns and guesses that itntbgtrck is probably too young to remember N9522:55
itsnotabigtruckRST38h: what? there was essentially no marketing for the N95 at all in the us22:55
itsnotabigtrucknor did they get any of the carriers to ship it22:55
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itsnotabigtruckthey took out a couple ads in big cities, maybe22:56
itsnotabigtruckthat was it22:56
itsnotabigtruckthe *only* people in the US with symbian phones, with minor exceptions, have been techies who found out about them online22:56
itsnotabigtruckunlike the N9, they did officially ship and support the N95, E71, and a few others in the US22:57
itsnotabigtruckthough nokia support in the US is kind of a joke22:57
itsnotabigtruckbut they didn't *market* those phones22:57
gabriel9also in canada there is no news about N922:58
gabriel9my friend from Canada did not hear about it22:59
gabriel9but here in my country there is adds about N9 :)22:59
gabriel9also in Serbia :)22:59
itsnotabigtruckmy general point is that nokia never made any attempt to expand into NA23:01
itsnotabigtrucknow they're doing this half-hearted lumia launch23:01
itsnotabigtruckbut they expanded into a major brand, set up service outlets everywhere, etc. in other places and they haven't hear23:02
gabriel9well Nokia is number one brand on Balkan23:02
itsnotabigtruckand at the same time there's all the other problems23:02
itsnotabigtruckwhere they've declined severely in europe and coasted on developing world brand loyalty23:02
itsnotabigtruckwhich is now starting to putter out23:03
itsnotabigtruckand it's not like elop created that situation23:03
gabriel9what would you do?23:04
gabriel9if you were CEO :)23:04
DocScrutinizerI've seen a lady with hooker800 yesterday in subway, FWIW23:04
DocScrutinizertook a while to get the disappointing detail it wasn't an N923:04
itsnotabigtrucki don't know...that's why i'm not getting paid the big bucks :p23:05
itsnotabigtrucki mean, as bad a job elop might be doing they were already past the point of no return anyway23:05
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gabriel9well you should show her real phone :)23:05
ajalkaneI saw an oldish lady in bus with one of those too. Same kind of disappointing feeling, then malicious knowledge she must be really unhappy and ultimately become unhealthy using that phone.23:06
DocScrutinizershe didn't look like a geek23:06
gabriel9NOKIA have reputation, and they have their own device N9 with their OS23:06
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gabriel9that is good start :)23:06
gabriel9does not matter, girls like geeks :)23:06
ajalkaneyeah girls are all hot about geeks!23:07
itsnotabigtrucklol ajalkane23:07
itsnotabigtruckgabriel9: which they aborted from the start...23:08
itsnotabigtruckthat's the thing though, the major difference between nokia and the other vendors is that they were vertically integrated23:08
itsnotabigtrucktheir own manufacturing, their own design, their own OS23:08
itsnotabigtruckand with the OS thing that meant that if you wanted a nokia they were the only game in town23:08
itsnotabigtruckwith the lumia...all they've got is a nice looking phone that's otherwise identical to all the other WP phones23:09
CreamyG420lol which girls23:09
itsnotabigtruckat least with android there's room to compete with high end hardware23:09
gabriel9yea, and they told everyone that Lumia is something new :D23:10
gabriel9new my ass23:10
itsnotabigtruckthere's no such thing as a high end winphone, the hardware is standardized to stuff that's years out of date23:10
gabriel9i rally don't like blogs, you can't hear anything like that on them23:10
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itsnotabigtrucki mean, i think MS might have been on to something with the standardized hardware, no oem customizations, etc., but they obviously didn't really execute it properly23:11
gabriel9just look at this:
CreamyG420wtf, this i gotta read23:11
ajalkaneElop is a genius. Or the board of directors stupid beyond belief.23:12
itsnotabigtruckthe article's right that nokia has huge problems, but elop is "fixing" all the wrong parts23:13
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itsnotabigtruckbut who knows...23:13
itsnotabigtruckbesides arguing about nokia management on irc is pretty useless :p23:13
itsnotabigtruckunless you work there, just write them off as a lost cause, but make the most out of the phone you've got23:14
ajalkaneunless one of us becomes the next CEO?23:14
gabriel9itsnotabigtruck for now :)23:14
gabriel9you have my vote23:14
gabriel9so real problem for now is how can switch through tabs and that my MainPAge hides himself :)23:15
gabriel9there must be some thingy with pageStack23:17
gabriel9i wish that i can do this in PHP and JS :P23:17
CreamyG420yeah dude the tabs are way harder to do than they should be23:19
CreamyG420take a look at this example:
gabriel9i will check that23:22
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gabriel9in MainPage there are TabGroup and ToolBarLayout23:24
gabriel9why in the 7 suns in all examples all that stuff in main.qml23:24
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gabriel9ok, i'm no expert in Eng and Qt/QML, but someone should write a book23:25
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gabriel9i would buy it for sure23:25
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CreamyG420it would be a pretty small book23:27
CreamyG420"here's half a UI"23:27
gabriel9well it would be a start23:27
gabriel9this way new developers are lost23:28
gabriel9in the start23:28
ajalkaneQML is quite trial and error in the beginning, that's for sure23:28
CreamyG420well it's missing lots of stuff is my point23:29
ajalkaneCreamyG420: yeah like much of the stuff outlined in the N9 UI guidelines :P23:29
gabriel9beginning is really hard23:29
gabriel9but, it is better then XML's23:30
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CreamyG420well some of the harmattan stuff is messed up. like the map thing, i don't think it even supports offline.23:30
gabriel9u use my mapps offline23:30
CreamyG420they set vital properties to private23:30
ajalkaneThat sucks. It doesn't use the same map data as Nokia maps?23:30
gabriel9and my future app based on maps is doomed23:31
ajalkaneYeah, but luckily the QML components are open source so you can just copy them to your project and adjust as necessary23:31
CreamyG420you're supposed to go like this: connectivityMode: Map.OfflineMode but it doesn't work23:31
gabriel9you must download maps23:32
gabriel9as i can see it23:32
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