IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2012-03-17

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pa	i have a problem with qtmobility.. has anybody used it?	00:33
pa	basically i am trying to query all the available qcontactmanagers for contacts, but for each one of them (including memory and tracker) i get 0 contacts	00:33
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pa	ok i actually get a failed to open store error	00:44
pa	i think i know whats the problem	00:47
pa	i probably dont have tracker read or write access	00:47
pa	can it be?	00:47
pa	im just running the script from the terminal	00:48
pa	havent packaged it yet	00:48
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diorahman	hey guys what do you think about Nokia's Adam Weinrich post: http://lists.qt-project.org/pipermail/marketing/2012-March/000214.html ?	00:57
pa	i mean, if i run a python script from terminal, how do i give aegis credentials to it?	00:58
beford	aegis-exec maybe? I have no idea maybe itsnotabigtruck knows	00:58
pa	ah thanks, let me check	01:01
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pa	ok i think i found it	01:04
pa	apparently it is possible to give credentials to a script, if ran with #!/bin/python	01:04
pa	which brings me to the next problem: how can i add some credential file (aegis file) on the fly, without having to package it?	01:05
RzR	diorahman: newlines are missing ...	01:05
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diorahman	RzR: here you are, https://gist.github.com/2053493, from Adam , Quim and Adam	01:08
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RzR	i managed to read it	01:16
RzR	well i donno	01:16
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RzR	i was looking at what is freelancer.com	01:16
pa	where do i find aegis-su?	01:17
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pa	hmm	01:20
pa	seemingly in aegis-sdd-.tools	01:20
pa	but i dont have it	01:20
pa	and apparently it is not in the repos	01:20
pa	well ok i know, its friday night, not many are around :)	01:23
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pa	ok, even aegis-manifest-dev is not available	01:32
pa	i start freaking out..	01:33
pa	bloody nokia	01:33
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pa	shit	01:53
pa	now aegis is rejecting the package i have to install	01:53
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pa	i guess rzr repos are unmantained, arent they?	01:56
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pa	it seems this bloody package was available in beta3	02:21
Sazpaimon_	rZr	02:27
Sazpaimon_	have you given freerdp 1.0 a try?	02:27
pa	rZr, are your repos abandoned?	02:28
pa	anyway, its so annoying that aegis-su is even mentioned in the nokia docs	02:31
pa	and it's not fucking available..	02:31
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rZr	pa: not really i was busy on some other projects	02:48
rZr	but now there are many apps in a4m repo	02:49
rZr	Sazpaimon_: i did start to look at freerdp but nothing happend so far	02:49
rZr	freerdp_0.8.2-2 depends on cups	02:51
pa	rZr, but midnight commander is still broken	02:53
pa	or..	02:53
pa	it has still broken dependencies	02:53
rZr	report bugs :)	02:53
pa	i think someone did already	02:53
rZr	or better fix them	02:53
pa	rZr, by the way, do you know where to find aegis-dss-tools?	02:54
Sazpaimon_	rZr, freerdp 1.0 is stable	02:54
Sazpaimon_	in fact theyre at 1.0.1	02:54
Sazpaimon_	and iirc it has pulseaudio support	02:55
Sazpaimon_	so that means audio redirection should work	02:55
rZr	Sazpaimon_: i imported it but it depends on cups	02:55
rZr	wanna try to fix it ?	02:55
Sazpaimon_	rZr, i think that's a module	02:56
rZr	pa: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=mc&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan rebuilding mc	02:56
Sazpaimon_	ie, it can be built without it	02:56
rZr	Sazpaimon_: that's what i thought	02:56
rZr	Sazpaimon_: i can try if you want	02:56
Sazpaimon_	at least on gentoo, it has a cups use flag	02:56
Sazpaimon_	keep in mind freerdp 1.0 and 0.8 are completely different	02:57
Sazpaimon_	1.0 is much more modular	02:57
Sazpaimon_	rZr, I can try it myself if youre too busy	02:57
pa	rZr, the problem is not mc, it is some libsomething (that i dont remember) that cannot be installed for some reasons	02:57
Sazpaimon_	I'd be using sbox and not obs though	02:57
pa	Sazpaimon_, does it happen you know where to find aegis-su, by chance? :)	02:58
Sazpaimon_	pa, what do you need it for	02:58
Sazpaimon_	iirc aegis-su doesnt disable aegis	02:58
pa	i know	02:58
rZr	pa: no idea that's itsnotabigtruck baby	02:58
Sazpaimon_	i believe its only on the n950 firmware	02:58
pa	i am just starting with a little python script	02:59
Sazpaimon_	i dont know that for sure though	02:59
pa	and i dont want to package it every time i change it	02:59
pa	but i need tracker read access	02:59
pa	i mean, it is even mentioned in nokia sdk docs	02:59
pa	but the package is not available anywhere	02:59
pa	bof, whatever, i'll go to sleep now	03:01
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pa	rZr, by the way.. how do i find a4m store?	03:05
pa	apparently google cannot find it	03:05
rZr	http://apps.formeego.org/n9testing	03:06
rZr	then you can install apps like	03:06
rZr	apps://1943 (0.4.0)	03:06
pa	thanks	03:07
rZr	this is the most stable repo to use	03:07
pa	and the app list is in apps.formeego?	03:08
pa	ah right	03:08
pa	i clicked the wrong icon	03:08
pa	basically a free market, i guess?	03:10
djszapi	npm: how to solve this issue then ?	03:10
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pa	but there+s not much.. about 15 apps in total	03:10
djszapi	to initialize the selectedIndex property with that return value ?	03:10
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Sazpaimon_	rZr, building freerdp with "-DWITH_PULSEAUDIO=ON -DWITH_CUPS=OFF -DWITH_FFMPEG=OFF -DWITH_ALSA=OFF -DWITH_XINERAMA=OFF -DWITH_XCURSOR=OFF -DWITH_MANPAGES=OFF" should be enough	03:30
rZr	Sazpaimon_: i wont have time to hack those cmakefiles	03:35
rZr	if you wanna fork this package	03:35
rZr	https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=freerdp&project=home%3Arzr&repository=harmattan	03:35
rZr	bye	03:35
Sazpaimon_	rZr, hacking cmake isnt required	03:36
Sazpaimon_	just modify the debian/rules	03:36
Sazpaimon_	but yeah, once I figure out obs I'll do it	03:36
Sazpaimon_	looks like freerdp wont build without xcursor though, no big deal im pretty sure harmattan has it available	03:36
Sazpaimon_	still a bug since they allow building without it	03:37
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Sazpaimon_	actually I guess xcursor isnt includes	03:39
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djszapi	pa stop this nonsense :)	04:34
Sazpaimon	got freerdp working	04:34
djszapi	you need to request for creds as they work, aka from manifest	04:34
Sazpaimon	audio redirection is working too	04:34
Sazpaimon	which is good	04:34
Sazpaimon	I'll try to push it to obs in a bit	04:35
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Sazpaimon	i cant get osc build working	06:43
Sazpaimon	http://pastebin.com/xv1xs0cS	06:43
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itsnotabigtruck	pa: did you get your stuff sorted	07:33
itsnotabigtruck	i'm not sure if aegis-su will do what you want anyway	07:34
itsnotabigtruck	aegis-exec lets you run your script with arbitrary credentials	07:34
itsnotabigtruck	try running a shell with precisely the credentials you want:	07:35
itsnotabigtruck	opensh -c 'aegis-exec -c -a cred1 -a cred2 -a cred3 ... sh'	07:35
itsnotabigtruck	then run your script from there	07:35
djszapi	why would he do that crap ?	07:35
itsnotabigtruck	you might have to do aegisctl -s from opensh, so that it'll let you run your script with high privileges without packaging	07:35
itsnotabigtruck	or just run it like: python foo.py	07:35
itsnotabigtruck	djszapi: for validating what aegis creds are required, for one	07:36
djszapi	nah	07:36
itsnotabigtruck	if you're not sure what creds you need, tweak/repackage/copy/reinstall/test/repeat is slow	07:36
itsnotabigtruck	aegis-exec/tweak/repeat is quick	07:36
djszapi	the whole point (and how the security system works) is that you need to request credentials from the manifest.	07:37
djszapi	please read the security introdction	07:37
itsnotabigtruck	maybe for a normal scenario, but this isn't a normal scenario, and aegis-exec exists for a reason	07:37
itsnotabigtruck	(to filter credentials to exactly what you want)	07:37
djszapi	it was never meant for adding credentials from third party developer point of view	07:38
djszapi	but I am sure you know better how we designed, as usual...	07:38
itsnotabigtruck	well, i'm not suggesting going live with this, i'm suggesting using this while hacking on the script	07:38
djszapi	again, please listen to others	07:39
djszapi	what you think "hack" is cool, it is not cool.	07:39
djszapi	see the last accident about the wasted hours for yourself, and the guy whose time you wasted.	07:39
itsnotabigtruck	djszapi: i'm not suggesting i know better, i'm just thinking maybe you're being a bit too...purist	07:39
djszapi	because you wasted others' and your time last time ?	07:40
itsnotabigtruck	the manifest approach is clearly not the way to go for quick testing purposes	07:40
djszapi	even if there was an initial warning it made no sense ?	07:40
itsnotabigtruck	it's for real stuff you're really distributing	07:40
djszapi	well, sure go for it....	07:40
djszapi	who cares then	07:40
itsnotabigtruck	well, you were right about the force-remove-fail thing :p	07:40
djszapi	and many other things	07:40
djszapi	but the point is that you do not still listen	07:40
itsnotabigtruck	but i don't think you had the solution either	07:41
djszapi	he needs to have something working and he asked whether he can request on the fly: answer was a big no-go for several reasons.	07:41
itsnotabigtruck	(for the record, the answer was: move the scripts out of the way, then do the remove)	07:41
itsnotabigtruck	(then install a fixed version of the package that doesn't fail, then remove that)	07:41
djszapi	I did have the solution	07:41
djszapi	sigh heck I even mentioned	07:41
djszapi	I do not have time for this ohhh big itsnotabigtruck	07:41
itsnotabigtruck	if i remember correctly, what you said was to install a new version of the package over the existing one, without any other tweaks	07:41
itsnotabigtruck	which would fail, due to invoking the broken script	07:42
djszapi	waste others' time then, and shut down then people's suggestion who made the platform	07:42
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itsnotabigtruck	ugh, why does it always get like this	07:42
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Sazpaimon	okay, I cannot get osc build to work	07:47
Sazpaimon	every time I run it, it tries to reinstall everything	07:47
Sazpaimon	even though the build environment should already be installed	07:47
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itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: yup, that's how obs works :(	07:48
itsnotabigtruck	just try to minimize obs builds, though unfortunately that's unavoidable when you're doing trial and error because obs is hard to predict	07:48
Sazpaimon	so i should just commit every little change?	07:50
Sazpaimon	gross	07:50
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: no, don't commit until you're ready to release	07:50
itsnotabigtruck	and try to get your buildeps right the first time, that caused no end of trouble for me	07:50
itsnotabigtruck	since obs doesn't install something if you don't ask for it, period	07:50
itsnotabigtruck	modulo some core packages	07:50
itsnotabigtruck	a lot of upstream debian packages have broken buildeps under those conditions	07:51
Sazpaimon	so I need to rebuild the build evirionment whenever i make a little change and want to obs build?	07:52
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djszapi	Sazpaimon: that is the power of obs	07:52
djszapi	if we drop that feature, we do not need obs	07:52
djszapi	that is mostly the main idea behind obs	07:52
djszapi	and it is not "hard" to predict	07:53
djszapi	Sazpaimon: also, with osc, you have an option to keep stuff	07:53
djszapi	so it is not even true "that is obs works".	07:53
djszapi	how*	07:53
Sazpaimon	also the "No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment" is a bit annoying	07:54
Sazpaimon	just a bit	07:54
djszapi	Sazpaimon: why would it ?	07:54
djszapi	you can simply skip it	07:54
Sazpaimon	because its filling up my build log	07:54
djszapi	and ... ?	07:54
djszapi	you do not have 5k space ?	07:54
djszapi	on your disk ?	07:55
Sazpaimon	i didn't say its a concern	07:55
Sazpaimon	i said its annoying	07:55
djszapi	again, why ?	07:55
djszapi	you do not need to deal with those lines at all	07:55
Sazpaimon	because i have to look at 5000 lines of "No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment" when I want to look at the actual backlog	07:55
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: it is pretty ugly...just minimize the number of OBS commits you do	07:56
itsnotabigtruck	one per release, plus any extras to fix unanticipated bugs	07:56
itsnotabigtruck	well, FTBFS events	07:56
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icequeen	you do not need	07:57
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djszapi_	that is the whole point	07:57
djszapi_	it is in the beginning of the whole log.	07:57
djszapi	nah	07:58
* djszapi has never done one per release commit		07:58
djszapi	Sazpaimon: also, I highly recommend using the webinterface	07:59
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djszapi	which never does one commit per release	08:00
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djszapi	and yes, please commit often for each logical change, and not a big bunch	08:00
djszapi	that is a basic attitude with version control systems for sanity	08:00
itsnotabigtruck	djszapi: but afaict you aren't supposed to put every single code change into OBS	08:01
itsnotabigtruck	that'll just clog up the build workers and stuff	08:01
itsnotabigtruck	code changes go into your own repository, releases go into obs	08:01
itsnotabigtruck	so an obs commit would be once every time you bump the version number, in theory	08:01
djszapi	except that you do not just commit tarball into the osc repository	08:01
djszapi	that is the whole point behind it	08:02
itsnotabigtruck	except that's exactly what you do...at least that's what everyone seems to do	08:02
itsnotabigtruck	well, tarball + dsc file	08:02
djszapi	no	08:02
djszapi	omg	08:02
djszapi	you do not even know how to use it basically, but spread the ideas ?	08:02
djszapi	sorry, I need to ignore you	08:02
djszapi	seems you cannot stop it	08:03
djszapi	and I am not interested, and since you speak up the whole channel, pretty hard to ignore it otherwise.	08:03
itsnotabigtruck	djszapi: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=kanagram&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan%3Aapplications	08:03
djszapi	and that clearly shows it does not just store the project tarball	08:04
djszapi	it has the debian packing is the damn thing you work on	08:04
djszapi	and every change can be committed for trying....	08:04
djszapi	and what most of the people do	08:04
djszapi	that is *	08:05
djszapi	anyway, ignore here, you just waste my weekend leisure time	08:05
itsnotabigtruck	sheesh, not everything has to be turned into an argument	08:05
Sazpaimon	alright looks like it worked	08:07
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: yay	08:08
itsnotabigtruck	which app is this, if you don't mind me asking?	08:08
Sazpaimon	freerdp	08:08
itsnotabigtruck	freerdp i guess	08:08
itsnotabigtruck	whoops, too late :p	08:08
itsnotabigtruck	cool	08:08
djszapi	Sazpaimon: it should even ask you to make a clean build	08:09
djszapi	so it really is possible to not start from scratch, though I do not recommend it	08:09
djszapi	I always make a clean build since I would like to make sure it builds nicely from scratch after every single change.	08:10
djszapi	what you wanna use is scratchbox for fast-prototyping.	08:10
Sazpaimon	thats what I figured	08:10
djszapi	to catch silly typos, and similar issues for which you do not need to have clean enviroment.	08:10
djszapi	so just fix your workflow :)	08:10
Sazpaimon	except a scratchbox environment can get polluted	08:10
Sazpaimon	as has mine	08:10
Sazpaimon	i had to dump it and start a new scratchbox environent	08:11
Sazpaimon	installed too many dependency packages from other places	08:11
djszapi	except that it does not matter	08:11
djszapi	since a typo issue in a C++ code will be the same gcc warning with any environment	08:11
djszapi	regardless to whether it is clean or not	08:11
Sazpaimon	yeah for typos sure	08:11
djszapi	and that is exactly what you want.	08:11
djszapi	to fix your workflow to catch silly mistakes like that without rebuilding everything	08:12
djszapi	and once you have a working package, use obs, done	08:12
djszapi	gcc error*	08:12
djszapi	that is how people work.	08:13
djszapi	alterego: ping	08:14
Sazpaimon	package seems to work	08:15
Sazpaimon	xfreerdp -f --plugin rdpsnd -u Sazpaimon --sec nla 192.168.1.114	08:15
Sazpaimon	and i get sound over pulseaudio	08:15
djszapi	you are welcome...	08:16
Sazpaimon	indeed, thanks	08:16
Sazpaimon	I guess I can submit this back to rzr	08:17
djszapi	you can, and we will review.	08:17
Sazpaimon	done	08:18
djszapi	we did not get any requests so far.	08:19
djszapi	will try later.	08:19
Sazpaimon	says its request 4543	08:20
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: you sent it to home:rzr	08:21
itsnotabigtruck	instead of home:rzr:harmattan	08:21
itsnotabigtruck	better revoke it and resend	08:21
djszapi	not here.	08:21
Sazpaimon	oh	08:22
Sazpaimon	ok	08:22
djszapi	I will review later today	08:22
Sazpaimon	its not actually letting me do that	08:22
Sazpaimon	obs thinks the package is forked from home:rzr/freerdp	08:22
Sazpaimon	and there is no freerdp on home:rzr:harmattan	08:23
Sazpaimon	it's in home:rzr	08:23
djszapi	that is a different thing	08:24
djszapi	just submit against home:rzr:harmattan	08:24
djszapi	if it does not allow that, please open a bug report against upstream obs	08:25
Sazpaimon	even though the package was forked from home:rzr?	08:25
djszapi	yes, why not ?	08:25
djszapi	they are for entirely different goals.	08:25
Sazpaimon	got it	08:25
Sazpaimon	okay, re-submitted request	08:26
itsnotabigtruck	djszapi: home:rzr is rzr's personal zone, i think	08:28
itsnotabigtruck	erm, that was @sazpaimon	08:28
itsnotabigtruck	home:rzr:harmattan otoh would be the community repo for anything	08:28
Sazpaimon	right	08:28
Sazpaimon	freerdp didnt exist on the community repo, so i branched it from his personal one	08:29
Sazpaimon	though I assume that was because it wouldnt build	08:29
djszapi	Sazpaimon: please just use incremental numbers for the package version	08:31
djszapi	we do not need the X.Y.Z schema twice	08:31
djszapi	we do not need the "harmattan1" suffix either	08:31
djszapi	plus I would personally prefer bz2	08:31
djszapi	if you are at it to change.	08:31
Sazpaimon	djszapi, sorry, I was basing it off of rzr's naming for it	08:32
Sazpaimon	he named it 1.0.1-1.0~rzr1	08:32
itsnotabigtruck	lol	08:32
itsnotabigtruck	is it based off of an upstream debian package?	08:32
itsnotabigtruck	take whatever version it uses and stick a maemo1 after it	08:32
djszapi	yeah, but I would not like it this way in the community repository because of complication and inconsistency.	08:32
itsnotabigtruck	debian seems to have 1.0.1-1	08:32
itsnotabigtruck	so make it 1.0.1-1maemo1	08:33
Sazpaimon	yeah	08:33
itsnotabigtruck	or maybe harmattan1 is better but i think everybody's been using maemo, and iirc rzr himself advised using it	08:33
itsnotabigtruck	so go for that	08:33
djszapi	it is a simple fix after all	08:33
Sazpaimon	yeah just rename and edit the dsc, changes, and debian tarbsll	08:34
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: erm, edit debian/changelog and regen the source package	08:34
itsnotabigtruck	don't mutate the files directly	08:34
Sazpaimon	eh alright	08:34
itsnotabigtruck	i mean, you can but you shouldn't	08:34
Sazpaimon	was too lazy to extract the file but its easier in the end	08:34
djszapi	also, please do not use debian repository urls in the control file.	08:35
djszapi	please mention the debian authors as the original ones.	08:35
djszapi	please use uesr/* sectionb	08:35
djszapi	so that it can be installed by the pkgmgr if someone wanna do that	08:36
itsnotabigtruck	oh yeah, harmattanized control checklist:	08:36
Sazpaimon	so rename Maintainer to Changed-By and restore the old Maintainer>?	08:36
djszapi	please remove the debian history from the changelog	08:36
itsnotabigtruck	a) XSBC-Maemo-Display-Name	08:36
itsnotabigtruck	b) XB-Maemo-Flags	08:36
djszapi	check out other packages how it is done	08:36
itsnotabigtruck	c) XB-MeeGo-Desktop-Entry-Filename (if installing a desktop file)	08:37
djszapi	ab	08:37
itsnotabigtruck	d) XB-Maemo-Icon-26	08:37
djszapi	anybody can take a look a look at the debian stuff in the debian repository	08:37
Sazpaimon	[02:36] <djszapi> please remove the debian history from the changelog	08:37
djszapi	we do not need to ship debian life history in harmattan history	08:37
Sazpaimon	you mean the ubuntu specific entries?	08:37
djszapi	yes	08:37
Sazpaimon	ok	08:37
itsnotabigtruck	e) use a section from the list on this wiki page http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/Packaging starting with user/	08:37
Sazpaimon	leave the regular versions right? like 1.0.1-1	08:38
Sazpaimon	etc	08:38
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itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: nah, always change the version if you changed anything	08:38
itsnotabigtruck	that's what the maemox stuff is all about	08:38
Sazpaimon	itsnotabigtruck, i mean the old log entries	08:38
itsnotabigtruck	ohh	08:38
itsnotabigtruck	djszapi: (if you aren't still ignoring me) it seems most proper to keep the debian changelog	08:39
itsnotabigtruck	to preserve continuity	08:39
itsnotabigtruck	but changing the maintainer in the control file makes sense	08:39
Sazpaimon	http://paste.ubuntu.com/887419/	08:39
Sazpaimon	this is what I have	08:39
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: perfect	08:39
itsnotabigtruck	not sure why the section is stable all of a sudden :p	08:39
Sazpaimon	eh	08:40
Sazpaimon	i can change it back to unstable	08:40
Sazpaimon	djszapi, http://paste.ubuntu.com/887421/ is this a good control?	08:41
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itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: look at the 5 items above	08:42
djszapi	Sazpaimon: nah	08:42
itsnotabigtruck	maybe skip the icon for now if you don't have a 64x64 icon ready to go	08:42
djszapi	you didd not fix the things I said.	08:42
itsnotabigtruck	but you should at least hit A/B/C/E	08:42
djszapi	actually you did not fix any of them :p	08:43
itsnotabigtruck	also, if you put in an icon, please pngcrush it before base64ing it, icon bloat is the spawn of the devil :p	08:44
Sazpaimon	there's no icon, its a terminal program	08:44
djszapi	you do not need icon	08:45
Sazpaimon	[02:34] <djszapi> also, please do not use debian repository urls in the control file.	08:45
Sazpaimon	sorry didnt see this line	08:45
Sazpaimon	should i just get rid of thos vcs lines altogether?	08:45
djszapi	yes pls.	08:46
Sazpaimon	<itsnotabigtruck> e) use a section from the list on this wiki page http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/Packaging starting with user/	08:47
Sazpaimon	broken link	08:47
djszapi	Sazpaimon: just follow what I said pls, if you wanna get it accepted :)	08:47
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: link works on my end	08:47
Sazpaimon	oh that isnt a whole link	08:48
Sazpaimon	woops	08:48
itsnotabigtruck	ah yeah, lol	08:48
itsnotabigtruck	just up through Packaging	08:48
Sazpaimon	Section: user/utilities	08:49
Sazpaimon	should be accurate enough	08:49
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: since there's no desktop icon then skip C	08:49
itsnotabigtruck	but if you can find a good 64x64 icon you should still do D so the uninstall list looks pretty	08:49
Sazpaimon	[02:35] <djszapi> please mention the debian authors as the original ones.	08:51
Sazpaimon	didn't I do that in my pastebin?	08:51
djszapi	nah	08:51
djszapi	08:36 < djszapi> check out other packages how it is done	08:52
Sazpaimon	I checked rzr's freerdp package for reference	08:52
djszapi	that is not the community repository.	08:53
djszapi	XSBC-Original-Maintainer: -> you can use this for instance	08:53
itsnotabigtruck	dammit, djszapi beat me to the punch	08:53
itsnotabigtruck	Maintainer -> XSBC-Original-Maintainer	08:53
itsnotabigtruck	Changed-By -> Maintainer	08:54
Sazpaimon	ah ok	08:54
itsnotabigtruck	so drop the 2 Vcs- fields	08:54
itsnotabigtruck	do the maintainer stuff	08:54
itsnotabigtruck	and add all the harmattan stuff	08:54
Sazpaimon	i checked some random packages in the community repo, and didnt see those	08:54
Sazpaimon	just regular Maintainer lines	08:54
Sazpaimon	http://paste.ubuntu.com/887432/	08:55
Sazpaimon	better?	08:55
Sazpaimon	itsnotabigtruck, i couldnt find any documentation on XB-Maemo-Flags, but what i found on google told me "visible" was what to use	08:56
djszapi	a little bit	08:56
djszapi	sections are still not okay.	08:56
djszapi	Sazpaimon: please do /not/ use XB-Maemo-Flags	08:56
Sazpaimon	djszapi, make it user/* instead?	08:56
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: yeah, visible is the only one you use on normal packages	08:56
itsnotabigtruck	djszapi: why not?	08:56
djszapi	well you have two sections for freedrp at the top	08:56
Sazpaimon	whoops	08:57
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: the other ones are undocumented and have to do with rebooting and stuff	08:57
djszapi	drop 11	08:57
Sazpaimon	sorry i didnt notice that	08:57
djszapi	change 2	08:57
djszapi	and change all the other sections too	08:57
Sazpaimon	djszapi, should I not bother with categories and just use user/*?	08:57
djszapi	user/utilities	08:58
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: i think * is a placeholder	08:58
itsnotabigtruck	not a literal value you should put in	08:58
itsnotabigtruck	also maybe user/network would be more appropriate?	08:59
* djszapi is still waiting for the savior to let him know how to initialize a property from c++ code...		08:59
Sazpaimon	i wasnt sure, utilities seemed better for me	08:59
djszapi	without entering the changed signal handler.	08:59
Sazpaimon	should I make the libfreerdp-dev package user/development and not user/utilities	09:00
djszapi	yes	09:00
itsnotabigtruck	maybe the -dev package should be non-user/	09:00
djszapi	same with dbg	09:01
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: use devel	09:01
Sazpaimon	uh, why	09:01
djszapi	and network for the libraries	09:01
itsnotabigtruck	i think the -dbg is debug	09:01
Sazpaimon	there is no user/devel	09:01
djszapi	/user/development	09:02
djszapi	-/	09:02
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: user/ packages should be interesting packages to the end user only	09:02
itsnotabigtruck	i.e. conceptually they should be "apps"	09:02
Sazpaimon	oh	09:02
itsnotabigtruck	libraries are not user/	09:02
Sazpaimon	so devel/development	09:02
itsnotabigtruck	neither are header and symbol packages	09:02
itsnotabigtruck	no, no prefix	09:02
djszapi	nop	09:02
itsnotabigtruck	the program itself: user/network	09:02
itsnotabigtruck	the devel package: devel	09:02
itsnotabigtruck	the debug package: debug	09:02
itsnotabigtruck	the lib package: libs	09:02
itsnotabigtruck	that will hide the "uninteresting" packages from meecatalog etc.	09:03
Sazpaimon	djszapi said use network for the libraries	09:03
itsnotabigtruck	they can still be installed from apt-get	09:03
itsnotabigtruck	tell djszapi to look at the backlog :p	09:03
Sazpaimon	http://paste.ubuntu.com/887439/	09:04
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: noooooo	09:04
itsnotabigtruck	> the program itself: user/network	09:05
Sazpaimon	yeah i changed that	09:05
itsnotabigtruck	freerdp-x11 is NOT A LIBRARY, so why would it go in libs?	09:05
Sazpaimon	oops, i wasnt paying attention	09:05
djszapi	still not okay	09:05
itsnotabigtruck	this isn't terribly complicated, my suggestion is simply based on mixing the meego wiki info and the debian policy manual	09:05
itsnotabigtruck	just apply some logic, almost everything you're asking is easily solved based on ubuntu/debian/meego/harmattan/whatever packaging guidelines	09:06
Sazpaimon	okay, so make freerdp and freerdp-x11 user/network	09:06
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itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: and everything else stays put, sounds about right	09:08
Sazpaimon	http://paste.ubuntu.com/887441/ okay	09:08
Sazpaimon	maybe i should get some coffee	09:08
Sazpaimon	because ive had a headache all day	09:08
itsnotabigtruck	:( that's no good	09:08
Sazpaimon	and coffee is the only thing that helps	09:08
itsnotabigtruck	sorry if i was being a little harsh just now	09:08
Sazpaimon	no its fine	09:08
itsnotabigtruck	i usually get headaches precisely because i haven't had coffee, but by then it's too late	09:08
djszapi	dbg is still not okay :)	09:09
djszapi	nor others	09:09
djszapi	only 2 and 28 are ok	09:09
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: could you explain to djszapi that only freerdp-x11 qualifies as a "user package"	09:09
Sazpaimon	basically what he said	09:09
itsnotabigtruck	and that the user/ prefix is not to be indiscriminately applied to anything and everything	09:09
djszapi	he = ?	09:09
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: he's ignoring me right now	09:10
Sazpaimon	oh	09:10
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Sazpaimon	now i have to be the middleman and he'll ignore me	09:10
Sazpaimon	but ok	09:10
Sazpaimon	<itsnotabigtruck> Sazpaimon: could you explain to djszapi that only freerdp-x11 qualifies as a "user package"	09:10
Sazpaimon	<itsnotabigtruck> and that the user/ prefix is not to be indiscriminately applied to anything and everything	09:10
itsnotabigtruck	i was kinda hoping you'd rephrase that x_x	09:11
Sazpaimon	too tired atm	09:11
djszapi	Sazpaimon: please do not post what he says. I have a reason why I would not like to listen to him.	09:11
djszapi	I warned him many times.	09:11
* Sazpaimon rolls eyes		09:11
Sazpaimon	okay fine	09:11
Sazpaimon	make freerdp-dbg and freerdp-dev user/development	09:12
Sazpaimon	and make the libs user/network	09:12
Sazpaimon	yes?	09:12
djszapi	does it build that way (preferrably without a warning) ?	09:12
djszapi	could you please try it out ?	09:12
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Sazpaimon	the source package builds find	09:13
Sazpaimon	*fine	09:13
djszapi	(scratchbox build is enough for testing it)	09:13
Sazpaimon	yeah hold on let me put it in scratchbox	09:14
itsnotabigtruck	i still don't get this, user/ is specifically for packages that are interesting to end users	09:14
itsnotabigtruck	and make sense to uninstall individually	09:14
itsnotabigtruck	a package that is only installed as a dependency of others, i.e. a library, should never be user/	09:14
itsnotabigtruck	and a devel package shouldn't be installed on-device anyway	09:14
itsnotabigtruck	think about it this way: if you're a user scrolling through meecatalog, would you have a reason to want to install the package	09:15
itsnotabigtruck	that's true for freerdp-x11, and not so true for the others	09:15
itsnotabigtruck	http://wiki.maemo.org/Packaging/Guidelines#The_Maemo_archives	09:18
itsnotabigtruck	Sazpaimon: just found that wiki page, most of those guidelines for maemo are still in effect on harmattan	09:21
Sazpaimon	itsnotabigtruck, i really dont feel like arguing with djszapi tonight	09:21
Sazpaimon	or in general	09:21
Sazpaimon	also for some reason quilt isnt working on scratchbox	09:21
Sazpaimon	it can't run awk	09:21
Sazpaimon	despite awk being installed and runnable	09:21
djszapi	why would you argue ?	09:22
djszapi	if we make one package installable for the user on the device with pkgmgr, we do not do any good	09:22
djszapi	we should be able to install any packages with package manager.	09:22
djszapi	is it not sane ?	09:22
Sazpaimon	okay im not sure whats wrong with scratchbox	09:24
djszapi	Sazpaimon: if you need explanation, I can tell you in private why I ignored him after tons of warns, if you wish, but I would not like to pollute this channel with it anymore.	09:25
Sazpaimon	djszapi, I really dont want to get involved	09:25
djszapi	that is why I said, to please never refer to him.	09:25
Sazpaimon	bash: /usr/share/quilt/compat/awk: No such file or directory	09:25
Sazpaimon	lrwxrwxrwx 1 maemo maemo 17 Mar 17 03:24 awk -> ../../../bin/gawk	09:25
Sazpaimon	/usr/bin/gawk: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped	09:26
Sazpaimon	thats preventing quilt from working	09:27
* Sazpaimon shrugs		09:28
djszapi	Does anybody know how to initialize a qml element property from C++ code without entering the chanted signal handler ?	09:35
djszapi	changed*	09:36
djszapi	Sazpaimon: also, I would probably not push it against the current "community repository".	09:37
djszapi	since we have just been about to split and not to increase.	09:37
djszapi	we will probably have a utils repository for these things.	09:38
djszapi	so just push it against the applications repository for now.	09:39
ieatlint	djszapi: i don't think you can without doing something questionable	09:42
djszapi	ieatlint: hey, how are things ?	09:43
djszapi	Do you feel a bit better ?	09:43
ieatlint	yeah	09:43
djszapi	ieatlint: do you have any "questionable" idea on the tip of your tongue ?	09:43
ieatlint	i'm fighting with my employer, but today is a day where my ethnic heritage says i need to be drunk and eat cheap meat	09:44
djszapi	you at least have employer :p	09:44
ieatlint	so the questionable ways aren't necessarily applicable	09:45
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ieatlint	i've seen it done with custom qml elements, but the property value changes won't be detected inside of qml	09:46
itsnotabigtruck	night!	09:46
ieatlint	essentially, just change it entirely on the c++ side	09:46
ieatlint	a quick look suggests http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qdeclarativeproperty.html may have some help	09:47
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ieatlint	but i've never used it... and it may not actually be different than the signal/slot method	09:47
djszapi	ieatlint: I would like to play a little sound effect, if the selection is changed by the user (really just a little one), but it is generated while launching the application.	09:48
ieatlint	oh, i see, you don't want the on<value>Changed signal called for initializing the property?	09:48
ieatlint	there are other ways to handle that :P	09:49
djszapi	yes since it is just an initilization after all.	09:50
ieatlint	i've done things as simple as Text { property bool init: false; text: "test"; onTextChanged: { if( init ) doSomething(); }; Component.onCompleted: init = true }	09:50
djszapi	I do not intend to change, just initialize.	09:50
djszapi	yes that was my fallback idea.	09:50
ieatlint	yeah, not sure there is a better option	09:50
djszapi	I could not just believe my eyes, I cannot initialize a qml property from c++.	09:50
ieatlint	well, the qdeclarativeproperty thing could, but it'd be messier, and less efficient	09:51
ieatlint	and, actually, i'm not sure it wouldn't still cause the changed signal	09:51
djszapi	myProperty: myContextPropertyClass.myMethod();	09:52
djszapi	I would think it is a proper initialization syntax.	09:52
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ieatlint	should be fine... the Component.onCompleted signal won't be called until after the properties are initialized	09:53
djszapi	ieatlint: I will just go for the fallback, I believe.	09:54
ieatlint	it's best, as any other workaround will be messy, potentially result in more function calls, and will be a LOT harder for someone else to read	09:55
djszapi	well, the nastyness of the fallback is that 1) I cannot declare js global variable in the same qml file 2) I cannot have read only property.	09:55
djszapi	which might still be better than spending yet another X hours with this.	09:56
ieatlint	on the plus side, i have beer	09:56
djszapi	alcohol free, right ? ;)	09:57
ieatlint	no, i said beer	09:57
* djszapi still has some alcohol free beers in the fridge		09:58
ieatlint	alcohol free "beer" falls somewhere between budweiser and decaf coffee	09:58
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djszapi	ieatlint: there is an interesting thing	10:16
djszapi	I cannot hide the infobanner if I still "initialize" the property from C++	10:16
djszapi	the showed up infobanner remains for ever.	10:16
djszapi	until a new show, and then show up with the new text as such	10:17
djszapi	so it seems the initialization workaround is still not fixed :/	10:17
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ieatlint	not sure i follow	10:21
ieatlint	are you using that c++ method, or the js method of using a boolean and then setting it via Component.onCompleted?	10:21
djszapi	ieatlint: the initial value comes fro mC++	10:22
ieatlint	also, if it's an infobanner that you display when the value is changed, why is there an initial variable?	10:22
djszapi	it is like a setting that you store on the disk so when the application is launched, it restores the selected item.	10:22
djszapi	nah	10:22
djszapi	the infobanner is entirely different thing	10:22
djszapi	an*	10:22
djszapi	but it takes effect on that apparently.	10:23
ieatlint	and somehow the Component.onCompleted signal isn't being called in the order you want?	10:23
djszapi	I think it is better if I show the code	10:24
ieatlint	ok	10:24
djszapi	http://paste.kde.org/441590/	10:25
ieatlint	line number for the relevant element?	10:25
djszapi	58-60	10:26
djszapi	33	10:26
djszapi	102	10:26
djszapi	129	10:26
djszapi	and 96, for sure	10:28
ieatlint	try removing lines 58-60, and at line 104, add else { initialized = true; }	10:28
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djszapi	well, that cannot be a solution, so what do you expect out of it ?	10:29
djszapi	the problem is not with the sound	10:30
djszapi	sound works as expected after this workaround	10:30
ieatlint	oh, but randomly the infobar doesn't hide?	10:30
djszapi	the problem is that if I try to initialize a qml property like that, the infobanner gets dismissable.	10:30
djszapi	not randomly.	10:30
djszapi	it never hides	10:30
djszapi	just for a new show	10:30
djszapi	so it disappears and immediately appears	10:30
djszapi	but I guess that is how show is supposed to work	10:30
ieatlint	yes	10:30
ieatlint	so hide isn't being called is your issue	10:31
djszapi	it is called	10:31
djszapi	console.log enters that line	10:31
djszapi	but it does not take effect	10:31
djszapi	the time is cool before showing up	10:31
ieatlint	hmmm	10:33
ieatlint	it's as if the timerEnabled property of the infobanner isn't true (which is the default value)	10:33
ieatlint	or the timerShowTime is not set to a sane integer	10:34
djszapi	both are ok	10:34
* djszapi has the feeling an auxilliary property will be the workaround		10:35
ieatlint	i see "khangmanEngineHelper.hintHideTime * 1000;" ... you sure hintHideTime is <10?	10:35
djszapi	ofc I could set the selectedIndex to the return value in the onCompleted, sleep for a bit, and then set to true	10:35
djszapi	that works, but super hackish :)	10:35
djszapi	ieatlint: yes, I printed out	10:35
djszapi	it prints out the things according to the settings page	10:36
djszapi	1000, 3000, 5000 etc	10:36
djszapi	function hide() {	10:36
djszapi	animationHide.running = true;	10:36
djszapi	}	10:36
djszapi	sorry, for spamming: NumberAnimation {	10:37
djszapi	id: animationHide	10:37
djszapi	target: root; property: "scale"; to: 0; duration: 200; easing.type: Easing.InExpo	10:37
djszapi	}	10:37
ieatlint	could the show signal somehow be looping?	10:37
djszapi	I even tried to call show() and then put a hide() statement immediately right after	10:37
ieatlint	well, not sure... could be a repainting issue, but i wouldn't say that's likely	10:38
djszapi	ieatlint: I restore certain settings on the settings page: https://projects.kde.org/projects/kde/kdeedu/khangman/repository/revisions/master/entry/src/harmattan/MainSettingsPage.qml#L63	10:42
djszapi	I do it that way.	10:42
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ieatlint	yeah, that shouldn't do anything	10:43
ieatlint	hmmm	10:44
djszapi	though if I use it that way	10:44
djszapi	I am afraid initialized true runs earlier than the signal handler code	10:44
djszapi	meaning that I will hear the sound	10:44
ieatlint	unless that is a loop... you set the hide time, detect the hide time was changed, set the slider amount, which causes a signal change, which sets the hide time?	10:44
djszapi	I could put some sort of sleep in there sure ... but that is really nasty :)	10:44
djszapi	no loop involved.	10:45
djszapi	the point of that code is to avoid the loop in fact :)	10:45
djszapi	without that, there is a loop	10:45
ieatlint	well if the Component.onCompleted is being set too soon, then you can eliminate it	10:45
djszapi	but with binding qml elements there are not.	10:45
ieatlint	eg, onSignal: { if( initialized ) doSomething; else initialized = true; } -- the initializing changed signal then sets it initialized	10:46
ieatlint	so it theoretically can't be too soon	10:46
djszapi	it would be nice if property initialization from C++ was fixed in QML2.	10:49
djszapi	ieatlint: I am not sure I understand the onSignal line	10:51
djszapi	why that is good from InfoBanner pov.	10:51
ieatlint	i don't see the direct connection between your infobanner and your initialized bool	10:55
ieatlint	i see where the initialized bool is set and checked	10:55
ieatlint	but not how it interacts with the banner	10:55
djszapi	me neither	10:55
ieatlint	however, if you believe that the Component.onCompleted signal is being set too early, that would be a way around it	10:56
djszapi	might be an infobanner bug as well	10:57
ieatlint	if i had to guess, the the show() method of infobanner is being called in a loop somehow, or there's a repainting issue... but i wouldn't eliminate other possibilities	10:59
djszapi	I do not honestly know how to solve this ituation	11:03
djszapi	situation*	11:03
djszapi	we do really wanna have a simple way in qml2 to initialize a qml property from C++.	11:06
djszapi	auxilliary variable (property) did not help :/	11:10
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djszapi	is there a handy sleep function available for qml/js or shall I just put an empty for loop in there for this goal ?	11:12
djszapi	preferrably qml/qt. js probably has one.	11:12
djszapi	ieatlint: ahh not I gotcha...	11:14
djszapi	so it is viable to set the thingie inside the onCompleted, but do not set the true there.	11:14
ieatlint	it's an idea anyway	11:15
ieatlint	and i think there is a simple sleep() function	11:15
djszapi	initialized == true ? nextWordSoundEffect.play() : initialized = true	11:16
ieatlint	alternatively, you can use a timer	11:16
ieatlint	essentially, yes	11:16
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djszapi	ieatlint: http://minus.com/mwjXzXyDx#1	11:29
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djszapi	ieatlint: sorry, it is broken :p	11:30
pa	itsnotabigtruck, not yet.. i had a couple of ideas more to try, but essentially no. do you know where i can find this package i need?	11:30
jonni	what package are you refering to?	11:32
djszapi	pa: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/HARM/N9/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/opensh/	11:33
ieatlint	installing...	11:33
djszapi	ieatlint: pls wait	11:33
djszapi	pa: though, I do not seriously recommend working against the security platform	11:33
djszapi	way cleaner workflow to work how it is intended.	11:34
ieatlint	hah, yeah, i just get a black screen indicating a qml error :P	11:34
djszapi	yeah, stupid assignment vs. binding character	11:34
djszapi	ieatlint: http://minus.com/mH5EpYt5f#1	11:36
ieatlint	simple game, but it works	11:43
pa	djszapi, well i dont	11:43
pa	i just need aegis-su	11:43
pa	for testing out scripts on the fly	11:43
pa	thanks , anyway!	11:43
jonni	pa: aegis-su is under NDA, only for nokia internals.	11:44
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djszapi	pa why would you need aegis-su ?	11:44
djszapi	how do you know what it does in the first place ?	11:45
djszapi	you should not.	11:45
djszapi	if there is such a tool at all.	11:46
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pa	jonni, interesting. it is mentioned in the nokia sdk docs	11:52
pa	as well as aegis-manifest	11:52
pa	that is also not available anywhere	11:52
djszapi	pa: they write that which package ships that	11:53
djszapi	and I would highly hope it is just a documentation mess up	11:53
pa	i can link it	11:53
djszapi	in any case, you do not need that package.	11:54
pa	and djszapi , again, the reason i want aegis-su, is because im trying to write a script, and i dont want to repackage it every time. i was just dropping it into the device mydocs, and running like python script.py (as it is in the very beginning of development)	11:54
djszapi	aegis-manifest is available in scratchbo	11:54
djszapi	x	11:54
pa	but i need some aegis credentials	11:55
djszapi	request it from the manifest file	11:55
djszapi	and you do not play against the security platform	11:55
djszapi	once you request, you have it.	11:55
pa	essentially what this guy is saying: http://dz015.wordpress.com/	11:55
djszapi	yes, we read that last summer	11:56
pa	djszapi, http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/debug.html	11:56
djszapi	request the cred you need	11:56
djszapi	figure out what you need	11:56
pa	there you go	11:56
pa	i know what i need	11:56
djszapi	I found that article earlier	11:56
djszapi	which is again, hopefully a bug	11:57
pa	but how do i request the credentials "on the fly"?	11:57
djszapi	you do not need that	11:57
djszapi	why would you need that ?	11:57
pa	well basically you are telling me that i have to package everything together with an aegis manifest	11:57
djszapi	yes of course	11:58
djszapi	that is how we designed the harmattan platform security	11:58
pa	fine, what do i have to do every time i mod that script? repackage and reinstall?	11:58
djszapi	nah	11:58
djszapi	but it has nothing to do with with aegis-su or whatever you dream of.	11:59
pa	djszapi, what?	11:59
djszapi	you have even been told how to do that in different ways	11:59
djszapi	what is wrong about those ?	11:59
pa	i was trying to do just what it+s written in that wordpress article	11:59
pa	is that playing "against the rules"?	11:59
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djszapi	I do not seriously understand what you mean	12:00
pa	in fact i probably what the exact same command line	12:01
djszapi	tons of other devs could manage to run scripts without any super tool.	12:01
djszapi	I wonder why you cannot do the same.	12:01
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pa	well, i havent read these different ways. if you could repeat me one. For example, can i simply replace the script installed by a package with a new one without reinstalling (from devel-su) while keeping the credentials?	12:03
pa	heh.. no comment	12:09
jonni	well you can easily develop scripts, just dont replace anything that has been installed, and run the script with aegis-exec from opensh, that way you get all capas to your script.	12:20
pa	hmm i probably have to understand what you just told me, but thanks : )	12:23
djszapi	jonni: thanks for repeating for zillionth time :)	12:25
djszapi	I kinda lost my sake for that :/	12:25
jonni	pa: aegis-exec --help, -a or -p adds all the credentials that you need. people should just read the documentation better.	12:26
* djszapi still think that packaging is a cleaner workflow since packaging a script is almost no time anyway		12:27
djszapi	you will encounter issues while developing a script in this dirty way when you try to use it nicely.	12:28
djszapi	will = might	12:28
jonni	its maight be cleaner, sometimes its just easier to edit with vi/nano manually on device, at very early stage of script developing.	12:28
djszapi	easier, as in seen here many times: spares few seconds but causes headaches asking others here for days	12:29
pa	sorry, didnt read, i tried something like this: aegis-exec -a TrackerReadAccess python testcontacts.py	12:30
pa	however, i still get the same problem as before: i still get my little list of available qcontactmanagers (tracker, memory, aggregated,etc..)	12:31
pa	but when i try to create any of them, i get .QtMobility.QContactManager.Error.DoesNotExistError	12:31
pa	i thought it was due to lack of credentials	12:32
djszapi	pa seriously just go and learn about security	12:32
djszapi	as it was advised many times on this channel, take a look at the syslog	12:33
djszapi	if no complains about missing credentials, nothing is missing	12:33
djszapi	and it is like few seconds to check	12:33
djszapi	instead of poking others for days	12:33
djszapi	jonni: also I pinged you in pm	12:35
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djszapi	(not sure how often you read those)	12:35
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jonni	ah thanks, didnt notice it, now responded :)	12:37
jonni	pa: http://pastebin.com/80cPRh98	12:37
pa	jonni, thanks. i tried it, but in my case it doesnt print out anything. and i am not sure what syslog he meant, but in my syslog there's nothing about it	12:51
jonni	pa: are you calling python with the capa, or the actual script?	12:52
pa	no no i am calling the perl script you pasted	12:52
jonni	aegis-exec -a TrackerReadAccess python testcontacts.py vs aegis-exec -a TrackerReadAccess ./testcontacts.py	12:52
djszapi	not sure what syslog ? :)	12:52
djszapi	that is a pretty standard where it occurs.	12:53
pa	jonni, at the moment i am trying to check it with aegis-exec -a TrackerReadAccess ./example.pl	12:53
pa	which doesnt print out the credential	12:53
jonni	pa: and you runned the command from opensh? if not then it return empty :)	12:54
djszapi	still at the same topic ? run the dirty way behind opensh ? ;p	12:54
pa	hah, that might be	12:54
pa	but opensh, is the one that djszapi pasted before? i read it can cause malfunctions.. and basically i dont have it installed yet.	12:56
djszapi	yes, it is.	12:56
* djszapi has just packaged a script and it took few seconds		12:57
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pa	man, the problem is not packaging it, the problem is editing it	12:57
jonni	opensh doesnt cause malfunctions, its the stupid users who mess up the system with it who cause malfunctions.	12:57
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djszapi	if the editing the problem, and not the packaging, then why not package it ?	13:00
* djszapi does not follow this logic		13:00
djszapi	ieatlint: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qtbinding.html#modifying-properties	13:03
djszapi	(though it is still not about initialization)	13:04
djszapi	is it just me not seeing Nokia N9 while publishing to Ovi ? I saw that few weeks ago as an option.	13:14
djszapi	I see only Symbian options.	13:15
djszapi	err...I chose the qt based app in a rush, heh	13:16
djszapi	is it possible to change the wrong selection later ?	13:16
djszapi	(to not re-fill all the metadata again)	13:17
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pa	so im trying to package this script, using psa. but it seems that, despite what is written in the doc, the aegis manifest doesnt get added, even when it is not empty	14:29
pa	i assume no one here uses psa, tho? :)	14:29
djszapi	what is psa ?	14:34
pa	pyside-assistant	14:37
djszapi	wow :)	14:37
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pa	i guess i found the way to trick the aegis with the imp module	16:05
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itsnotabigtruck	pa: "imp module"	17:50
itsnotabigtruck	hm?	17:50
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pa	yes, with it you can import a script from wherever	18:51
pa	that you can obviously change without the restriction of the checksum	18:51
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Jaffa	alterego: belated pong ;-)	19:07
itsnotabigtruck	hhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugfEN236nKE	19:09
itsnotabigtruck	whoa, this looks awesome	19:09
ZogG_laptop	itsnotabigtruck: game?	19:13
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itsnotabigtruck	ZogG_laptop: yeah	19:21
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npm	is there a way for an application to automatically add it's own "extra" keys to the virtual keyboard -- for example, cursor-control and copy/paste/select-all	19:28
npm	s/it's/its	19:29
mgedmin	on the keyboard itself, I don't think so, but on the toolbar above the terminal -- yes	19:29
mgedmin	it's also handled by maliit	19:29
mgedmin	look at how xterm does it	19:29
mgedmin	there are .xml files that describe the toolbar buttons; you can have arbitrary keys there	19:29
npm	but i want it as general feature on platform. i guess that means it's not implemented yet :-)	19:30
mgedmin	maliit is a general feature of this platform	19:30
mgedmin	or do you mean you want a plugin of some kind that adds those features to every app?	19:30
npm	as in there could be an X atom holding some string (e.g. JSON) that can hold the extra bindings, icons, actions)	19:30
mgedmin	the swype keyboard has arrows and copy/paste iirc	19:31
npm	so that any app can post a JSON string to X and then the VKB would pick it up whenever the app is being used for typing	19:31
itsnotabigtruck	mgedmin: i think the idea is to have context dependent layouts	19:31
itsnotabigtruck	for example, the @ key is important in an email client, but the ~ key is not	19:31
mgedmin	xterm used to have a custom layout, iirc	19:32
itsnotabigtruck	-~/\*"';\|<> are important in a shell, but @ is not	19:32
itsnotabigtruck	etc.	19:32
npm	oh yeah i guess if you use swype specifically, there's some way of adding buttons to the bar above	19:32
itsnotabigtruck	meego-terminal adds an auxiliary button bar, though it doesn't have all the buttons it ought to	19:32
mgedmin	replacing , with / iirc	19:32
mgedmin	in the main vkb layout	19:33
mgedmin	but recent versions turned that off	19:33
itsnotabigtruck	and it's less convenient than if the english kb layout had a version optimized for shell usage	19:33
npm	is the way it achieves that documented?	19:33
javispedro	npm: yes, there is	19:33
javispedro	npm: e.g. http://javispedro.com/maemo/gsoc/customtool.png :)	19:34
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npm	javispedro: looks perfect. but then you have to impose your own keyboard or does it use whatever user has chosen	19:35
javispedro	npm: it just appears on top of the user keyboard; not sure if it works with swype though (you can check in the terminal app, it is the same feature)	19:35
itsnotabigtruck	if meego-terminal shows up with a button bar with swipe on, then it works	19:36
npm	yeah i saw that, guess i need to rtsl	19:36
itsnotabigtruck	there's the keyboard, and then a white bar with symbols/arrows above it	19:36
javispedro	basically you write a xml file with the button defs and push it to the im-server	19:36
itsnotabigtruck	erm, swYpe	19:36
javispedro	MTF has an API for it, dunno about harmattan qt quick components though...	19:36
javispedro	oh	19:36
javispedro	in any case, if a sample exists, it's on the widgetsgallery	19:36
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javispedro	https://qt.gitorious.org/maemo-6-ui-framework/libdui/merge_requests/329 that's for MTF	19:37
npm	given that it's my own app, i guess i should just put up some buttons and be done with it :-)	19:37
javispedro	what was the name of the harmattan qt quick components example app?	19:37
javispedro	I remember they DID some keyboard stuff	19:37
javispedro	for ex. I found http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/SipAttributes_in_MeeGo_Qt_Quick_Components	19:40
npm	or is there some magic vulcan-death grip that pastes what's in the cut-buffer when the VKB is up. (wp7 has that little "pastie" round thing w/ two-documents icon when there's something in the cutbuffer)	19:40
javispedro	it was a "design" decision that they removed the paste button from the vkb	19:41
javispedro	I think you can probably still make it show up changing the theme, but no idea about themes	19:41
npm	javispedro: yeah that example gives different "enter" key prompts and perhaps also lets you set a numeric versus alpha kb	19:41
npm	javispedro: that's too bad. the way wp7 handles cut/paste vs vkb is nice. the way it actually handles the cursor is horrid). they need to mate and produce a child...	19:42
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npm	aka both should have harmattan's cursor-magnifier and saner cut/paste activation. harmattan should have wp7's copy activation/noise/graphics as well as paste.	19:44
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* npm wonders if there's a german word for the disappointment you feel when you realize you accidentally plugged in lumia instead of n9 into USB port		19:48
npm	schlechtenplatformgepluggenheit or something	19:50
beford	lo	19:57
beford	l	19:57
npm	http://synth.media.mit.edu/synthclient/ works in firefox on n9	20:00
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pa	i noticed that if i enable a skype account, i get skype contacts among the contacts, while if i disable it these contacts disappear. Do you know whether these contacts are added and deleted every time, or whether is is simply the contact manager that appear and disappear?	20:09
pa	and if so, is it possible to add a second contact manager of type tracker?	20:10
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Sazpaimon	rZr, ping	20:49
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javispedro	hmrpf, when positioning is active, harm seems to love issuing wlan ap scans..	22:28
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mgedmin	makes sense, I suppose	22:44
mgedmin	'dear nokia location server, let it be known henceforth that these wifi AP macs indicate this gps position: ..., love, a n9'	22:45
javispedro	exactly :)	22:47
javispedro	every minute	22:47
mgedmin	I suppose this is visible in Battery Usage?	22:48
itsnotabigtruck	mgedmin: is the data uploaded?	22:49
javispedro	mgedmin: that is the problem I wanted to avoid	22:49
javispedro	mgedmin: I used to leave the n900 for long times recording GPS tracks	22:49
javispedro	currently, with the n950 this is getting terrible battery life :(	22:50
mgedmin	itsnotabigtruck, I know just as much as you do; my guess would be 'yes, if you agreed to use that service'	22:50
javispedro	itsnotabigtruck: they do, how do you believe it is populated? :)	22:50
javispedro	every single phone manufacturer does it these days any way	22:51
javispedro	(and tablet ofc)	22:51
itsnotabigtruck	javispedro: well, any idea where that upload is being done /from/?	22:54
itsnotabigtruck	almost every single phone manufacturer is either apple, or using android	22:54
javispedro	or webos, or wp7	22:55
itsnotabigtruck	so i don't know if that proves much besides, /those oses/ have that	22:55
javispedro	and symbian	22:55
javispedro	the only one I don't know is BB	22:55
itsnotabigtruck	said manufacturers normally don't maintain the database or even write the software that publishes to it	22:55
javispedro	there are basically two such databases only	22:56
javispedro	google's and skyhook's	22:56
DocScrutinizer	yup	22:57
DocScrutinizer	and openBmap afaik	22:57
DocScrutinizer	which is mainly about BTS but also keeps records of WLAN AP	22:58
javispedro	heya DocScrutinizer	22:58
DocScrutinizer	hi	22:58
DocScrutinizer	just had a spare 5 min to look here	22:59
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itsnotabigtruck	well, since it's doubtful nokia is using google's db	23:24
itsnotabigtruck	then if the only databases are google and skyhook, then it'd be using skyhook if it's using any wifi positioning at all	23:25
itsnotabigtruck	but do you guys know it's doing wifi positioning, or is it just "everybody's doing it so the n9 must have it too"	23:25
itsnotabigtruck	though this wifi polling is strong evidence for it	23:25
itsnotabigtruck	but it's important to know for sure a) is it happening, b) can it be suppressed	23:25
mgedmin	maybe it's also doing ip geolocation?	23:26
mgedmin	(b) definitely	23:26
mgedmin	ooh, or cell tower geolocation	23:27
mgedmin	it's definitely not relying solely on the gps	23:27
mgedmin	Settings -> Device -> GPS and positioning	23:28
mgedmin	"Allow debice to locate itself using GPS, WLAN and mobile network"	23:28
mgedmin	also "Allow use of mobile data connection for higher location accuracy"	23:28
itsnotabigtruck	mgedmin: hmm, well, if it says that then it definitely has wlan location then	23:29
itsnotabigtruck	i assumed the latter part has to do with agps	23:29
itsnotabigtruck	though that isn't for higher accuracy...just downloding ephemeris data for quicker lock	23:29
mgedmin	I seem to remember a popup when I first launched Maps that asked me about sending data back to Nokia to enhance their location information ...	23:29
mgedmin	I don't trust my memory	23:29
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javispedro	when booting maps for the first time there's a prompt about whether you accept "terms and conditions of positioning service"	23:40
javispedro	and those clearly mention that they gather wifi hotspots, cell towers, etc.	23:40
javispedro	I even remember they said they also use the information to "predict traffic jams" or something like that	23:41
javispedro	(read them in spanish and long ago)	23:41
javispedro	and yeah nokia uses skyhook, ms does use skyhook iirc correctly too	23:42
javispedro	apple too	23:42
javispedro	webos uses google's though	23:43
javispedro	despite using bing maps...	23:43
itsnotabigtruck	hmm	23:44
itsnotabigtruck	javispedro: so does that "higher accuracy" option toggle use of that then?	23:47
javispedro	I think that only disables it when not in a wlan	23:48
DocScrutinizer	the higher precision is a red herring	23:49
DocScrutinizer	you can't get higher precision than with GPS	23:49
SpeedEvil	Than poor GPS - you can	23:50
javispedro	e.g. interior of buildings	23:50
itsnotabigtruck	hm, is there a gconf option that controls use of skyhook	23:50
itsnotabigtruck	or i guess some hackery would be required then to filter skyhook communication	23:50
itsnotabigtruck	e.g. put it into leech mode :p	23:50
DocScrutinizer	you can get higher speed to first fix, and you can get lower than gps positioning in situations where GPS doesn't work at all	23:51
itsnotabigtruck	also any idea if nokia's a-gps scheme is just ephemeris downloading, or is it more complicated than that	23:52
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: I am really surprised at what the touchpad (using MS's hotpost database, no GPS) can do	23:52
itsnotabigtruck	the wiki article talks about two kinds of a-gps	23:52
itsnotabigtruck	one of which involves sending detailed gps data to a server	23:52
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: afaik they even do some triangulation based on the RSSIs of the hotspots	23:52
DocScrutinizer	well, you know that doesn't worl	23:53
DocScrutinizer	work*	23:53
javispedro	on a urban jungle setting, it does feel more precise than GPS	23:53
DocScrutinizer	while I dunno what exactly is RSSI, assuming it's signal strength	23:53
itsnotabigtruck	i think it's "receive signal strength indication" or something along those lines	23:54
javispedro	yep	23:54
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DocScrutinizer	signal strength is highly variable, depending on local interference aka standing waves, also on shielding effects and directional anteanna behaviour	23:55
javispedro	note that I'm obviously not saying that it will get you a 5m fix, that's imposible	23:55
javispedro	but precisely on areas where GPS might fail because they're full of signal-blocking steel buildings, it tends to work	23:56
DocScrutinizer	taking all those effects mentioned above you might get sub-meter accuracy, or be completely off by a few 100m from actual position with your guestimate	23:56
javispedro	and the fact that you don't even know if the hotspot's location in the DB is remotely accurate or not	23:57
DocScrutinizer	s/taking/taking into account/	23:57
infobot	DocScrutinizer meant: taking into account all those effects mentioned above you might get sub-meter accuracy, or be completely off by a few 100m from actual position with your guestimate	23:57
itsnotabigtruck	well, an obvious naive way to do it is just to interpolate based on the rssi compared to samples of gps position + bssid + rssi	23:57
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: on pos of AP: you definitely dunno shit about where it is	23:58
DocScrutinizer	the database been constructed from readings like yours	23:58
* javispedro nods		23:58
DocScrutinizer	so they just guess	23:58

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