IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2012-02-16

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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: most likely a tuning of the TX LC will yield better results tan soldering random wire to the antenna00:51
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: I'd check the RX side antenna (position, orientation, distance to metal objects etc)00:53
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GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, already soldered the random wire. *g* It seems to have helped.01:40
GeneralAntillesDon't feel like disassembling the vacuum itself to hunt for the RX board.01:41
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HAMIDx9_i installed develsh (deb) manually but when i execute it i haven't root access01:50
HAMIDx9_i installed it because of my internet problem and i cant enable dev-mode from setting01:51
HAMIDx9_any suggestion ?01:51
mgedmindevelsh doesn't give you root01:51
mgedmindevel-su gives you root01:51
mgedmin(after you've enabled developer mode, at least)01:51
mgedminit *sucks* that one can't enable dev mode while offline01:52
HAMIDx9_so it's impossible to enable dev-mode offline ?01:52
mgedminI dunno; I assume so from what I hear people saying here01:53
itsnotabigtruckmore or less impossible, yeah01:53
itsnotabigtrucksince you only have to do it once, i doubt see why it's such a huge point of contention01:54
itsnotabigtrucka phone that's offline isn't exactly good for much anyway01:54
itsnotabigtruckalso HAMIDx9_: you'll find yourself using this command a lot :p01:54
itsnotabigtruckdevel-su -c develsh01:55
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HAMIDx9_yeah , but my problem is about that nokia doesn't support our country01:55
HAMIDx9_manually i cant install devel-su01:55
itsnotabigtruckHAMIDx9_: what do you mean? i'm pretty sure you can install packages from anywhere on the planet01:56
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: I had good results with following procedure: open up RC-TX, increase distance to RX until fail, then some meters more, ude PLASTIC screwdriver to adjust the small variable capacitor in TX while sending, until RX reacts01:56
itsnotabigtruckif your home internet is dead, you could go find an internet hotspot or something01:56
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: GeneralAntilles: I had good results with following procedure: open up RC-TX, increase distance to RX until fail, then some meters more, use PLASTIC screwdriver to adjust the small variable capacitor in TX while sending, until RX reacts01:56
HAMIDx9_but it seems its impossible and here we have problem01:57
itsnotabigtruckalso HAMIDx9_: you should uninstall devel-sh also01:57
HAMIDx9_i have to use VPN or Socks or HTTP proxy for enable dev-mode01:57
itsnotabigtruckif you install develsh directly from the .deb, it won't work01:57
itsnotabigtruckdo develsh -c 'accli -I'01:58
itsnotabigtruckit should have about 20 entries01:58
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: find the two positions of C where RX stops to react, adjust C to middle between those 2 pos01:58
itsnotabigtruckif it's more like 5 entries, develsh is misinstalled01:58
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: redo with some meters more distance01:58
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: until RX never reacts, then go back to prev pos and setting01:59
itsnotabigtruckHAMIDx9_: are you saying your country blocked the nokia site?02:00
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: GeneralAntilles: until RX never reacts, then go back to prev distance and setting02:00
itsnotabigtruckbecause i highly doubt nokia put regional restrictions on the repository (i'm not talking about the ovi store)02:00
HAMIDx9_no it seems Nokia block my country02:00
itsnotabigtruckHAMIDx9_: apparently you already obtained a terminal?02:00
itsnotabigtruckwhat happens if you do apt-get update02:00
itsnotabigtruckalso, you can configure apt to use an http proxy02:01
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders where's the shell login of this homematic CCU (ARM based linux controller)02:01
HAMIDx9_i installed terminal manually02:01
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itsnotabigtruckyou should do the following02:01
itsnotabigtruckdpkg -r develsh02:01
itsnotabigtruckapt-get install aegis-dev-mode developer-mode02:01
HAMIDx9_thanks let me try02:01
itsnotabigtruckoh crap02:01
itsnotabigtruckyou need to be root first, i forgot02:02
mgedminpkgmgr lets you install stuff as non-root02:02
mgedmindunno if it would let you install developer-mode02:02
itsnotabigtruckoh yeah, that's right02:02
itsnotabigtruckpkgmgr can invoke apt02:02
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HAMIDx9_how to use it ?02:02
DocScrutinizeractually I guess sudo & aegis make that work02:03
itsnotabigtruckHAMIDx9_: pkgmgr remove develsh02:03
itsnotabigtruckHTTP_PROXY='http://yourproxy:port' pkgmgr install developer-mode02:03
HAMIDx9_thanks :)02:03
itsnotabigtruckgive that a try02:03
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itsnotabigtruckHAMIDx9_: did it work?02:05
itsnotabigtruckif it doesn't work (e.g. if your N9 hasn't been online recently), try doing this before the install02:06
itsnotabigtruckHTTP_PROXY='blahblah' pkgmgr refresh-cache02:07
* itsnotabigtruck is anxious to find out if this worked02:09
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djszapiheh, my apps was rejected in Ovi again02:26
HAMIDx9_itsnotabigtruck : so sorry for my lateness02:26
HAMIDx9_when i try this command "HTTP_PROXY='http://yourproxy:port' pkgmgr install developer-mode"02:27
HAMIDx9_it shows the pkgmgr USAGE02:27
rhkfindjszapi: tough luck - what's the reason?02:28
djszapi1) -> I cannot reproduce on any device with any firmware02:31
djszapi2) -> Weird why they did not scream last time because I had the same file name.02:31
djszapiI did change nothing about the debian file generation.02:31
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djszapiCould someone please try to reproduce the first issue ?02:33
djszapiI am seriously not able to do that ...02:33
djszapitried on 3 different devices with 3 different firmware versions ...02:33
rhkfindjszapi: where to download .deb?02:34
djszapisecond point -> I do not know what they are talking about ...02:35
rhkfinit makes no sense to me either..02:35
djszapikanagram_0.1-1.debian.tar.gz -> this is the file name.02:39
djszapi(just like as the the last time when they did not complain about it)02:39
djszapisorry, this: kanagram_0.1-1_armel.deb02:43
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djszapiinteresting, I cannot log in to my Ovi Publisher account anymore.02:56
djszapiHeh, they silently changed my user account for my request03:04
djszapiwithout notifying me LOL03:04
djszapiErr...what the heck ?03:04
djszapirhkfin: which version (firmware, that is) do you have ?03:05
rhkfinfile name isn't enough for me to find it, could you give URL..?03:07
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* djszapi wonders why Ovi decided what user name they chose for me ...03:07
djszapirhkfin: no sorry03:08
djszapiI do not have it uploaded anywhere.03:08
rhkfinoh ok03:08
djszapithe filename obviously was not meant for url03:08
djszapiit was meant for showing the file name, not more since they had a QA issue with the filename03:08
djszapiaccording to the point two for insane reasons.03:08
rhkfinOK, I thought you needed people to try if it runs03:08
djszapiwhat is wrong with them ?03:08
djszapithat filename makes complete sense to me ...03:09
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djszapiI seriously wonder why they decided to give me a username instead of taking the selected one by me.03:18
djszapiif every service provider was doing it, no people could remember for every individual stuff...03:19
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: you're probably more than tired of my packaging tips but consider changing the source format to 3.0 (native)03:26
itsnotabigtrucknative package = intended for debian only = pretty much anything built specifically for harmattan03:26
djszapithat does not make too much sense03:26
itsnotabigtruckthough actually since kanagram is a port it should be a non-native package...03:27
djszapithe whole KDE Harmattan packaging is quilt in the community repository.03:27
djszapiand my packages too in the platform.03:27
djszapi"native" package is the only thing should not be used actually.03:27
Hamidx9<itsnotabigtruck> : hi , the command didnt work !03:27
itsnotabigtruckwell, nm, keep using quilt, but use native for harmattan-only stuff03:27
itsnotabigtrucksince you don't actually want quilt on harmattan-only packages, since all patches should be part of the main source03:28
djszapi/home/user/MyDocs # /opt/kanagram/bin/kanagram.sh03:28
djszapiinvoker: Invoking execution: '/opt/kanagram/bin/kanagram-harmattan'03:28
djszapi/opt/kanagram/bin/kanagram-harmattan: error while loading shared libraries: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory03:28
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: except that we do not use harmattan only packages in the community03:29
djszapithat is the main point actually.03:29
djszapiwe port debian stuff.03:29
djszapiso 3.0 (native) makes zero sense03:29
djszapiand this is not even the issue for Ovi either ...03:30
djszapiI do really wonder what is wrong about that file name.03:30
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djszapirhkfin: I modified my source since that, but here you go:
djszapiit is now from master HEAD without any testing for the last 10 commits03:34
djszapiit does not load here for some obscure reasons.03:35
djszapiI could launch the application after installing libxcursor, but it is weird why I would need to do that.03:39
djszapirhkfin: can you reproduce what Ovi said after installing libxcursor1 from the community repository ? I fail to do so03:49
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djszapi -> Could someone please try to reproduce this blank screen issue ?03:56
djszapiIt is killing me I cannot, and the testers apparently do not have a button for sending the accumulated (console log, syslog and so forth) information to the developer automatically for rejections.03:57
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itsnotabigtruckbtw is there any way to change the package auto/non-auto state on harmattan04:09
itsnotabigtruckapt-mark is the normal utility for that, but it's broken04:09
itsnotabigtruckbecause it relies on python-apt, which for some reason wasn't shipped with the N9 even though it's in the sdk repo04:10
djszapiso why not install ?04:12
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: because that's an extra step04:13
itsnotabigtrucki was hoping there'd be a "proper" way04:13
itsnotabigtruckmaybe something in pkgmgr or something04:14
itsnotabigtrucksince pkgmgr does an apt-get autoremove after every operation, i'd *hope* there's some way to control that state04:14
djszapithat is what hte SDK repo is for.04:15
djszapiand it sounds like an uncommon use case anyway04:15
itsnotabigtruckwell no, the sdk repo is for loading up dev tools on scratchbox04:15
djszapiyou can be happy it is in the public SDK at all.04:15
djszapithey would normally reject the suppor for it at all.04:15
djszapithe image should not be bloated with custom use cases for good04:16
djszapiyou can be happy it is at all inside the SDK repository, as I mentioned.04:16
itsnotabigtruckwell, it would be in the main repo04:16
djszapithey have missing pieces for common use cases04:16
itsnotabigtrucklike all the other python stuff04:16
itsnotabigtrucklike pyside04:16
itsnotabigtruckit makes sense not to include it in the image, after all python itself isn't04:17
djszapithere are much more liked packages in the sdk repository.04:17
djszapiI would personally not pray for this one as far as I did not hear anybody requesting it yet04:18
djszapithe last two years at least.04:18
djszapiI personally agree with that it should not even be inside the sdk repository, but in community or so.04:19
djszapisince it is not even needed for developers.04:20
itsnotabigtruckerm, that's the diametric opposite of agreeing04:20
itsnotabigtruckand it's bad form to have utilities broken out of the box04:20
itsnotabigtruckthat said, core apt utilities really shouldn't be written in python04:20
itsnotabigtruckusing non-essential packages04:20
itsnotabigtruckapt-mark isn't anything terribly complicated, there isn't much advantage to doing it in python04:21
itsnotabigtruckit's just calling out to the apt c library anyway04:21
djszapino, it is not opposite of agreeing04:22
djszapiunless you change your mind every single second04:22
djszapi04:15 < itsnotabigtruck> well no, the sdk repo is for loading up dev tools on scratchbox -> this is exactly the reason why it should be taken out of the SDK repository.04:23
djszapiactually I will ask the SDK team today for that ...04:23
itsnotabigtruckthe sdk repo is for having a proper development environment on scratchbox04:23
itsnotabigtruckthings desperately need to be migrated from the sdk repo to the main repo04:23
itsnotabigtrucki want things made more available04:24
itsnotabigtruckyou want things made less available04:24
itsnotabigtruckand that's why we're both always at each other's throats04:24
djszapithis is not needed04:24
djszapinobody requested the last two years04:24
djszapiso why bloat things with uncommon case ? That is what the community repository is about.04:25
djszapiyou can put any corner case in there.04:25
itsnotabigtruckjust because nobody requested doesn't mean nobody needs it, and moreover, most of the time 'requests' don't even make it to the people with the decision power anyway04:25
itsnotabigtruckit's like how microsoft says "none of our customers wanted this major issue fixed so we left it"04:25
itsnotabigtruckby "customers" they mean fortune 500 customers with premier support contracts04:25
djszapiI am really happy qt and Harmattan are not supposed to work this way04:26
djszapito bloat the things with everything possible.04:26
djszapiwe do not really wanna violate the KISS principles.04:26
itsnotabigtruckyou seem to have a strange idea of bloat04:26
itsnotabigtruckrolling anything and everything into the default image = bloat04:27
itsnotabigtruckhaving an optional package in the repo != bloat04:27
itsnotabigtrucksomething that's opt-in is by definition not bloat04:27
djszapiof course it is04:27
djszapibecause it is way much more maintenance we obviously do not have enough man power04:28
djszapiand that is what the damn community repository is for anyway04:28
djszapiLet us see after talking to the SDK team anyway.04:28
djszapion top of maintenance hell, we would not really like the common case customers' life really hard to find one relevant package out of the zillion.04:29
djszapiyou do not have too much experience if you say that04:30
djszapiafaict that is also one consideration behind the project "Mer": learn some mistakes of MeeGo to provide the full stack with zillion packages04:30
djszapitheir principle is heavily to provide only the core, what is /really/ needed.04:30
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djszapiQ: How can I remove created test accounts inside my main publisher account ?04:34
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Guest44609hello:),can anyone tell me if memscanner works in n9 like it does in n90005:23
TronicI don't think you can scan the memory on N9.05:43
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itsnotabigtruckfwiw it looks like /proc/pid/mem indeed doesn't work on the N905:52
itsnotabigtruckhmm, do any of these bots have !tell06:25
itsnotabigtruck!tell itsnotabigtruck 'sup06:25
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itsnotabigtruck~tell itsnotabigtruck 'sup06:25
faenilstill up?06:26
faenilit's 5:26am here XD06:26
itsnotabigtruckit's only 10pm here06:26
faeniloh I see...06:26
faenilwell, time for me to go to bed06:26
faenilbeen coding all night06:26
itsnotabigtruckbtw any idea if any of these bots have a tell command06:26
itsnotabigtruckinfobot does but it's for spamming people with trite crap06:26
itsnotabigtruckinstead of storing and forwarding a message06:26
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DocScrutinizer~tell itsnotabigtruck about query06:36
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: right, things like that06:38
* itsnotabigtruck 's terminal font can't display the look of disapproval :(06:41
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: have you understood the second issue Ovi gave to me ?06:43
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: the filename?06:44
itsnotabigtruckthink i missed that part, but it might have to do with your version numbering06:45
itsnotabigtruckwhile you're right that your package is better off not native, i think ovi expects everything to use simple version numbering that is supposed to be reserved only for native packages06:45
djszapiso I cannot push the same package name after a rejection ?06:45
itsnotabigtruckthey probably want kanagram_1.0_armel.deb06:45
itsnotabigtruckand the control file to match that06:46
djszapiis that written somewhere in the requirements ?06:46
itsnotabigtrucki was going over them a while back, i think it said that06:46
itsnotabigtruckhold on06:46
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: i was probably thinking of, but rereading that it seems to permit the proper version scheme06:48
itsnotabigtruck*however* you do need to give the app a 3 component version06:48
itsnotabigtruckso, kanagram_1.0.0-1_armel.deb is ok06:49
itsnotabigtruckkanagram_1.0-1_armel.deb isn't06:49
itsnotabigtruckbut neither is kanagram_1.0_armel.deb06:49
djszapiTheir issue description could be clearer then, if that is the case.07:03
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: I think it would be nice if I can make a community page about ovi store rejection pitfalls.07:22
djszapiso that others could go through them with real examples.07:22
djszapinot a boring and very long ovi guide, but just the points.07:22
djszapiAlso, I do not understand why they accepted the filename previously.07:23
djszapiactually, I would even say, such a "mistake" should be caught automatically while uploading.07:23
djszapiQ: Can I hold back my OVI QA submission I made few hours ago so that I do not need to wait yet another 3-4 days for getting any responses the file name is wrong ? I would like to hold back the one submitted with arguably "wrong" filename, and push the "correct" one.07:31
djszapiA: Ahh yes, there is a way of doing that.07:31
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: wonder whether you have a bit of time and sake to test my app again:
djszapiYou still have PR1.1 ?07:35
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: yeah, i do08:16
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: does it work for you ?08:20
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: crap, i should probably get some sleep08:24
itsnotabigtrucki'll see about loading it tomorrow08:24
djszapido not bother really08:25
djszapiit should be accepted by that time08:26
djszapiso if you cannot do it right, nvm.08:26
djszapisomeone else might help here...08:26
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djszapiX-Fade ping09:43
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sony123hi djszapi09:55
sony123I saw yesterday you mentioned there's a way to get root access from aegis?09:56
sony123Well what I want to do is to get a GUI to edit the allow_adhoc flag under /sys/..... folder09:56
sony123So I only need to gain root for every QProcess launched within the app09:58
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matrixxsony123: I would have needed a similar scenario for a reboot from a GUI app, by starting another process for that09:59
matrixxbut didn't get it working :/10:00
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sony123hi matrixx, do you know any alternative solution?10:00
matrixxnope, I just didn't do it :(10:01
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matrixxlet the "reboot part" of my app to the user's responsibility :D10:01
sony123ah I see10:01
sony123Wait, I think I read somewhere in harmattan security guide that you can use script during installation for the reboot?10:02
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jonnisony123: add it to aegis manifest, you can request root for your binaries like
sony123I totally missed this section, thanks for pointing out, I will give it a try.10:19
sony123Yesterday I briefly tried setuid/setgid but somehow it didn't work....10:20
sony123I had problems getting QProcess to execute mutiple commands.....10:20
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jonnisony123: yes setuid/setgit only works if you have setup permissions in aegis manifest, like if in manifest you have both credentials for user and root, then setuid between root and user is allowed, without manifest it just fails10:26
jonniI just assumed that you have done manifest that has both credentials10:27
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sony123Got it, thanks a lot jonni10:34
TheBootrooi've bought a N9 black 64GB10:35
TheBootroobut i think it is switzerland one, so it don't show me the PR1.1 and 1.1.1 update10:35
TheBootrooi want to flash it but i'm under linux, so i don't have navifirm (i have flasher)10:36
TheBootroohow can i dl a PR1.1.1 for N9 64GB Black west europe (france) ?10:36
jonnipr 1.1.1 is only for middle asian margets, there is no european version for 1.1.110:37
jonnipr1.1 is the latest for europe10:37
TheBootrooso where can i download the image directely so i don't have to use Navifirm which is unavaible on my platform10:38
jonnino official download links are available, but if you google search you can find direct links10:38
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TheBootrooi've found naviFirmEx, which is coded in pure C++ (no .net) and runs perfectly with Wine emulator10:49
TheBootrooso i'm dowloading the 20.2011.40.410:50
TheBootroothen i'll flash with the native linux flasher bin10:50
TheBootrooi'll to be patient, only 11.6% download completed10:53
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gridjszapi: Now I tried debugging with gdb commandline on the phone: aegis credentials missing, like when using QtCreator ...11:00
djszapigri: so what ?11:10
djszapiyou do not know how the credentials work ?11:10
gridjszapi: Tell me a way how to debug without losing them11:10
djszapiit is really pretty simple.11:11
griattaching to a running process?11:11
djszapigri: please read the security guide because I am pretty busy now, sorry.11:13
djszapiit is properly documented.11:13
TheBootrooit is important to keep the same local variant code ? mine is switzerland but i don't it, i want french one11:14
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TheBootrooif i choose the same model and capacity no problem normally ?11:15
djszapiI guess no for Swiss and French11:15
TheBootroodjszapi: ok11:16
TheBootroobecasue swiss sux, no update for them11:16
TheBootroohope we'll get 1.2 soon11:16
djszapiI am sorry but I cannot comment on that when we push it out..11:17
djszapigri: isn't it trivial you need to pass the credentials to gdb if you use them ?11:19
gridjszapi: No that isn't trivial - how do I do this?11:20
djszapiwhy isn't it not trivial ?11:20
djszapiplease read the manifest manual how to request credentials.11:20
djszapiso on harmattan security: if you would like to use a credential for an app, you need to make sure it is available11:21
djszapiyou said it is not: so you need to request it.11:21
gridjszapi: Well my app has the credentials when started without gdb. I was looking for a word about debugging on harmattan-dev but there is none11:21
grinot even a hint in the "debugging tools" section11:22
djszapigdb != your app.11:22
griso I have to add the credentials for gdb and remove them after debugging?!11:23
djszapiyou need to request a credential for it.11:23
djszapiit is that simple.11:24
djszapiit is exactly the same as applauncher.11:24
djszapior valgrind and the like.11:24
djszapithose are all separate applications, not your binary.11:25
djszapiand at least applauncher is properly documented, even with an example imo.11:25
grido you have an exact line for me? <for path="/usr/bin/gdb" id="" /> does not seem to work11:25
djszapigdb comes from your package ?11:25
djszapiif not, why would you pass that way ?11:25
djszapisorry, but /please/ read the documentation11:26
griapplauncher is also done this way: <for path="applauncherd-launcher::/usr/bin/applauncherd.bin" id="" />11:26
djszapido you seriously think those two lines are the same ?11:26
grino but I have to find out the group for gdb first11:26
* djszapi wonders whether gri sees the scope there.11:26
djszapithat is not a group11:26
djszapithat is a package scope...11:27
griI just asked you first before looking up since you seem to know the solution but won't tell me :)11:27
djszapiI can copy/paste the documentation to you.11:27
djszapido the job for you, but will you learn something out of it ?11:27
djszapior will you come next time with valgrind or strace ?11:28
djszapithis way, you understand the thing next time.11:28
djszapi(once you already came to me with applauncher, same issue)11:28
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griwell the applauncher thingy was somehow documented for gdb I have no clue11:29
djszapiwe should document every single binary ?11:29
djszapior we should document how to request creds for apps not coming from the same package ?11:30
griwell, essential ones like "how to use the debugger since it does not work out of the box", yes11:30
djszapiwe do not duplicate and clutter the documentation11:30
djszapithe security documentation has already been huge11:30
griwell, there is a FAQ where one sentence would help :)11:30
djszapione sentence for everything ?11:31
griatleast people who just want to develop a small app without reading through hundeds of pages, this would be helpful11:32
* djszapi thinks people do not need documentation sections just FAQ since they skip the documentatio part11:32
djszapigri: it is inside the "how to write a manifest file" section11:33
djszapiand no, we do not wanna have another hundreds of FAQs11:34
djszapiQ: any debian experts here ? Asked already this morning, but I do not know what makeshlibs complains about. :/11:34
TheBootroowill there be the Qt4.8 version in final PR1.2 for N9 ?11:35
djszapidoubt that11:36
djszapi4.8 is broken11:36
djszapiI broke many apps already in Ovi11:36
djszapiwe do not need such regressions on Harmattan for no real gain.11:36
djszapimaybe 4.8.1. when they revert the breakages, but I am not sure it is worth dealing with it11:37
djszapitoo risky.11:37
djszapino real benefits that much11:37
djszapiQtQuick comes with 4.7.4 anyway11:37
djszapi1.1, that is11:37
TheBootroo4.8 broke apps ? not for me, just huge perf gain for QML and network access !11:39
djszapicheck out the development mailing list11:39
TheBootroowhich breakage N?11:39
djszapiit is really well written on the mailing list11:39
TheBootroodunno where it is11:39
TheBootroo(i don't use mailing list, too much unreadable)11:40
TheBootrooif only we could subscribe via RSS11:40
djszapiI wll not copy paste it out for you, sorry :)11:40
TheBootroowould be could11:40
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gridjszapi: "The Aegis manifest file can also request credentials for an executable in another package. For example, this is the case with an application invoker/launcher, when the application launcher daemon needs to have all the credentials for launching an application. In such cases, the path must be prefixed with the target package name." and as example below I see "packagename::/path/to/binary" - and gdb::/usr/bin/gdb is not accepted while installing, again11:40
djszapiyou do not need to subscribe for reading a mailing list.11:40
TheBootroodjszapi: i know11:40
TheBootroobut much unreadable in the web browser11:41
TheBootroohave to next next next next to find somethings11:41
djszapinot really11:41
TheBootrooand there are too many quote of previous msg making it hard to find the intersting parts11:41
djszapithere are one page threading, too.11:41
TheBootroodjszapi: maybe they have enhanced the mailing list system but last time is used it i found it not very helpfull11:42
djszapibut you do not wanna read the information you need because it is on the web ? :)11:43
gridjszapi: gdb does not have an "Object: /path/to/somebinary" entry in restok.conf and if I read the docs correctly I can only request credentials for binaries listed there?11:44
TheBootroodjszapi: i only ddont want to spend hours in searching something i'll take age to find11:44
TheBootroo(yeah i know, i'm lazy)11:44
djszapigri: huh ?11:47
djszapigri: you do realize you should use develsh right ?11:48
djszapiTheBootroo: am I supposed to do the job for you ? ;)11:48
grias far as I remember this did not help me. Also I have to run as "user"11:48
TheBootrootrying to flash the n911:49
TheBootroowith flasher11:49
djszapiyou need to run it as developer11:49
TheBootroowhen i plug the N9 to the pc, the flasher says Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy11:49
griwell then I have a problem :)11:49
djszapiTheBootroo: you do realize it is not much information right ? :)11:50
djszapican be many problem and I would need to ask zillion information11:50
TheBootrooyeah that's why i can't understand11:50
TheBootrooi tried to plug the phone being on or off, no change11:50
grisince the accounts are stored per user and running as developer results in two nokia accounts fighting for the push notification service11:50
djszapiI mean I would need the OS, whether you tried cold flash, what sort of flashing way, which images, what image is now on the device, whether you followed the official step, etc11:51
djszapigri: user is not supposed to debug11:52
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djszapiactually it could, but only with user credentials.11:52
djszapigri: and please please try to provide more information, which token we are talking about etc11:52
TheBootroodjszapi: on linux11:52
gridjszapi: Only the TrackerReadAccess token11:52
TheBootroowith flasher form nokia dev11:53
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djszapigri: damn, I should not have spent time with you then ...11:53
TheBootrootryed to flash N9 64 GB Black to pR1.111:53
djszapigri: have you checked out what credentials gdb has ?11:53
djszapiaccli -I `pidof gdb`11:53
djszapiTheBootroo: have you read how to flash a device ?11:54
djszapiplease provide the whole output /from/ prompt (yes, the command involved)11:54
gridebugging works fine except for the missing token11:56
djszapiso the debugging does not work then ?11:56
griit works but my application does not display anything since it can't load the data11:56
djszapiso it does not work11:57
djszapiwell, actually It was me reporting a bug about gdb wrt this very issue11:57
djszapibut it was long ago11:57
djszapiso it should have been released11:57
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djszapiplease check out the gdb manifest11:57
djszapi(it should not have manifest)11:58
djszapiapt-get source gdb11:58
griE: You must put some 'source' URIs in your sources.list11:58
djszapiaye, I remember11:59
djszapiwe decided to not stuff it11:59
djszapigri: obviously in your madde stuff11:59
djszapiso yeah, as I said, you need to use develsh11:59
gri this does not help?12:00
gridjszapi: As I remember I had the same problem with "developer" but I have to check that again12:01
djszapiit is probably because the request policy is not add by default12:01
TheBootroodjszapi: after blacklist some phonet modules i can start the process of flasher12:01
djszapiand the guys were claiming that is a good idea12:02
TheBootroobut i get and error12:02
TheBootroohere  is the paste12:02
djszapigri: well, I will not the job for you :)12:02
djszapiextract the stuff and see12:02
djszapieither the binary (_aegis) or the source (gdb.aegis)12:02
djszapiTheBootroo: phonet is also mentioned12:02
djszapibut ohye on the internet you dislike ;)12:03
TheBootrooi search on internet12:03
TheBootrooi like internet12:03
TheBootrooi don't like mailing lsit layout, that's all12:03
TheBootrooso i blacklisted phonet12:03
djszapiI mostly find the stuff on mailing lists12:03
TheBootrooso what is the problem nox12:04
djszapisince the qt/kde/linux_kernel/webkit are developed there.12:04
TheBootroowhat is this bb5_rdc_cert_read failed  sutff ?12:04
djszapisorry, I do not know12:04
TheBootrooi have image file : DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin12:05
TheBootrooand RM696_059J1V6_20.2011.40.4_001.dcp12:05
TheBootrooand that RM696_059J1V6_20.2011.40.4_001.vpl12:05
TheBootrooand taht RM696_059J1V6_20.2011.40.4_001_signature.bin12:05 ...12:05
djszapihave you tried the cold flash ?12:05
TheBootroowhat is that ? i tries to flash with -F -f12:06
TheBootrooand with phone off12:06
TheBootroothen laucnh command, plug phone and waited12:06
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djszapiflasher --help12:08
djszapi-F is for the image12:08
djszapi-f is for flashing12:08
* djszapi is back to do something12:09
gridjszapi: the gdb .deb does not have a _aegis file12:09
djszapias I said :D12:09
japplohi guys, is it possible to check via command line if developer mode is enabled?12:10
djszapialso develsh != developer user12:10
djszapiwhoami returns user to me ...12:10
djszapijapplo: yes12:10
japplodjszapi: ok how?12:11
djszapiwell, there are many ways of doing that ...12:11
TheBootrooomfg i think my n9 is bricked12:12
djszapichecking credentials available in developer mode only, checking log files, binaries etc12:12
djszapiTheBootroo: blame yourself for using NaviFirm.12:12
djszapior direct imaging.12:12
djszapiNokia does not recommend that.12:13
japplodjszapi: and what is the common choice?12:13
djszapijapplo: no clue, I have never heard this request from anybody yet.12:13
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TheBootroodjszapi: what can we do if they don't provied update ? the only tip i swa every where was NaviFirm12:13
djszapiTheBootroo: huh ? they do provide update.12:14
djszapiI have just updated my N9 yesterday actually that I got at the Qt Developer Days.12:14
TheBootroodjszapi: not for the switzerland variant12:14
TheBootrooi didn't i bought a swiss one12:15
TheBootroo(i bought it on a french website)12:15
djszapibad luck, but please remember Nokia warned you.12:15
TheBootroowarnes nothing12:15
TheBootrooi saw the warning AFTER rebooting from missed flash12:15
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TheBootroonow flasher don't want to reflash it12:16
djszapithe flasher gives a warning for you.12:17
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japplodjszapi: which binaries are not available?12:19
TheBootroodjszapi: i try to reflash warm12:19
TheBootrooit seems it starts to flash rootfs but fails12:19
djszapijapplo: syslog12:19
TheBootrooothers images worked12:19
djszapijapplo: but there might be a more precise way of doing it. I do not personally know this that well, sorry.12:20
TheBootroomeans i should try another iamge ?12:20
djszapigri: heh the plugin icon thingie is still not fixed12:21
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djszapiTheBootroo: it is perhaps that you try to flash an older kernel12:23
djszapitry to reflash the same.12:23
djszapior newer.12:23
TheBootroosuck it, i need to redownload the image12:23
TheBootroodjszapi: i tried to install FR PR1.1 on a device with SW PR1.012:23
djszapiyou can downgrade the firmware.12:23
TheBootrooi'll try to flash SW PR1.112:23
djszapiit is very specific version (232 and so on)12:23
djszapiso it might be that PR1.0 is newer than PR1.112:24
TheBootroobut i hope i'll not need to flash again for PR1.2 (was for that reason i wanted to flash FR variant instead of swiss one)12:24
TheBootroodjszapi: yes its _232 version12:24
TheBootroobut how can a PR1.0 be newer than PR1.1 ?12:25
djszapitrust me12:25
djszapiI do not have time to explain it now12:25
TheBootrooi didn't get the "can't downgrade error"12:25
djszapiand I am probably not entitled either.12:25
djszapiQ: Also I would like to get help too with this:
TheBootroodjszapi: hope reflashing with swiss variant will solve my bricked device problem12:27
djszapijapplo: I got it from bb5 in dpkg wrapper12:27
djszapiwhen I worked on it12:27
djszapibut I bet you cannot do the same.12:27
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japplodjszapi: what do you mean with bb5?12:32
japplodjszapi: it is possible to check this via command line?12:34
djszapicheck dpkg wrapper12:34
djszapiwhether it has such an option.12:34
djszapijapplo: why are you interested in this btw ?12:34
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japplodjszapi: do you know ipadd-widget ?12:37
japplodjszapi: I like to add this info12:38
djszapino, sorry.12:38
djszapiwhat is that ?12:38
djszapiX-Fade you did not get the bug report12:40
japplodjszapi :
X-Fadedjszapi: ?12:40
djszapiX-Fade if you check out the modification of my rules file, it was added later12:40
djszapiX-Fade: how could I get it work without that hack ?12:40
djszapiOBS returns Coverage12:41
djszapiofficial environment returns "" (notype)12:41
djszapiadding coverage to the rules file is a very nasty hackaround12:41
djszapiit is indeed an OBS issue12:41
X-Fadedjszapi: Nothing in OBS sets that.12:41
djszapiX-Fade even if I set it to release OBS hard keeps it to Coverage12:41
djszapiI spend almost my whole day yesterday with this issue12:41
djszapiOBS thinks Coverage is cool, and that is not cool12:41
X-Fadefgrep doesn't return anything.12:41
djszapiand we cannot even override12:42
X-FadeSo it is not OBS.12:42
djszapiit is an obs issue12:42
djszapiobs does not behave like the target is supposed to behave.12:42
djszapiyou will get notype12:43
djszapicompile this package in scratchbox, madde or the phone12:43
X-FadeIt must me some other thing. Like picking up some env var or thinking it is running on some system.12:43
djszapiobs returns Coverage12:43
djszapianyway, OBS needs to be fixed12:43
X-Fadeobs has no settings for cmake12:43
djszapiwhatever the root cause is.12:43
X-Fadeobs doesn't use cmake12:43
djszapisince it only does not work on obs12:43
djszapinot just this package, but anything12:43
djszapiit is a generic issue12:43
X-FadeAnd I checked, it is the latest cmake from beta3.12:43
X-FadeAnyway, nothing I can do about it.12:44
djszapithat is a sad consequence12:44
djszapibecause you have only the access to c-obs12:44
djszapifor checking deep details.12:44
djszapiI cannot know what it messes up12:44
X-Fadedjszapi: Does it do that in a local build?12:44
djszapiit does not work as the official environments.12:44
djszapiX-Fade yes12:45
djszapiif you meant to write osc12:45
X-FadeThen you can debug it too.12:45
djszapihow ?12:45
djszapiwhat ?12:45
X-FadeJust go into the chroot and check?12:45
djszapicheck what ?12:45
X-FadeWell, whatever ;)12:46
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djszapimeh blah D12:46
djszapiif I knew what to check I have already done it.12:46
djszapiI tried to check the whole c-obs project config12:46
X-FadeJust run the what you see in the build log?12:46
djszapiX-Fade: done that many times.12:46
djszapisame cmake options passed12:46
djszapisince I did not set anything12:46
X-FadeIn the chroot?12:46
djszapiso cmake is not a culsprit12:46
djszapichroot ?12:46
X-Fadeosc build12:47
X-FadeChroot into it.12:47
djszapiand ?12:47
X-Faderun the commands12:47
djszapiwhat commands ?12:48
X-FadeWhatever you need to do to check.12:48
djszapito check what ? :D12:48
X-FadeRun BUILD for instance.12:48
djszapiI have seriously no clue12:48
djszapicmake is not my project, nor is c-obs12:49
djszapiwhat I can do is to write to the cmake mailing list including you in the loop12:49
djszapiso that if they say something you can tell from c-obs pov12:49
X-Faderun override_dh_auto_configure: $(overridden_command) -- -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=Coverage12:50
X-Faderun .build/build12:50
X-FadeAnd see what it does.12:50
djszapiwhat do we expect ?12:50
X-FadeWell, let it run until you see the cmake line.12:50
djszapiX-Fade why not check the build log ?12:51
djszapiI mean why do we need to do it again ?12:51
X-FadeBecause locally you can use strace or whatever.12:51
X-FadeOr read the build script.12:51
* djszapi has no clue about strace12:51
X-FadeAnyway, you have an identical enviroment there. If you want you can debug it.12:52
X-FadeI don't have time to dive into it, but it is not that you are limited because you don't have access.12:52
djszapiI do not have access to project config I am afraid12:52
X-FadeSure you do.12:52
djszapior well, honestly: I do not know how OBS works.12:53
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djszapiso I do not know what to check12:53
X-FadeRead the build script12:53
djszapithat is shipped by obs ?12:53
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djszapi./build folder is empty in chroot12:54
X-Faderun osc build and ctrl-c it.12:54
djszapiwell I need to ask cmake developers what to check12:54
djszapisince I have seriously no clue12:54
djszapiand I would not like to read the cmake code as well12:54
djszapiX-Fade got a clue for this ?
X-Fadedjszapi: Yeah, I triggered a rebuild.12:56
djszapiX-Fade is the build script generated or static ?12:57
djszapiisn't it available somewhere then publicly ?12:57
djszapiinstead of ctrl-c and chroot12:57
djszapialso, does c-obs have diff to upstream obs ?12:58
X-FadeSure, it is github in the OBS repo.12:58
djszapiso c-obs is just a different configuration of obs ?12:58
X-FadeIt is just an install, yes.12:58
djszapithan for instance, arch obs or debian obs ?12:58
djszapiX-Fade: so it is just like setting a bugzilla or trac ?12:59
X-Fadedjszapi: Yes, you can download a vm appliance too. Then you have your own.12:59
djszapiis there a way of searching for a file on github ?13:01
djszapiin a desired repository for instance ?13:01
djszapiX-Fade why did you re-trigger the build without modification ?13:02
djszapiDid you change something on c-obs side ?13:02
djszapiX-Fade: Also, I had many time issue yesterday13:03
X-Fadedjszapi: No, I wanted to see the live log.13:03
X-Fadedjszapi: I fixed those, I hope.13:03
djszapiX-Fade c-obs does not build packages having rules file touched in the future.13:03
djszapilike in 1-2 hours.13:03
djszapibecause here we have utc + 2 hours13:04
djszapiand it works with utc13:04
X-FadeClock is running utc.13:04
X-Fadecheck the file: build13:04
X-FadeThat is all, just a shell script.13:05
djszapiX-Fade any hope you get it fixed ?13:05
djszapiI would not like to set my time back 2 hours13:05
djszapinor waiting 2 hours.13:05
djszapi"just" a shell script :D 2128 LOC :P13:06
X-Fadedjszapi: Run you clock in UTC?13:06
X-FadeThat is the only real time anyway :)13:06
djszapiX-Fade will my time still aligned to my timezone ?13:06
X-Fadedjszapi: display can be changed with TZ env var.13:07
djszapitrue, that is what I do with my friend's server, but still13:07
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djszapiis it a dpkg limitation, or obs ?13:07
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X-FadeIt is the same as that make is complaining.13:08
X-FadeI guess it is build into dpkg13:08
djszapiI wonder why I had no such issues previously.13:08
djszapibut this might be the reason as well for the late publishing ?13:08
X-FadeBut some of the clocks of the workers work off.13:08
X-FadeI fixed those.13:09
X-FadeSo it might have been just that.13:09
djszapiso it is now published properly what we discussed precedingly ?13:09
X-FadeDid not check that yet.13:09
djszapiwell we can check after grantlee built.13:09
djszapibut did not build, same issue.13:10
djszapiX-Fade: this is what ubuntu/debian uses for this package:
djszapiprolly related to this: DEB_DH_MAKESHLIBS_ARGS_ALL = -V -u-c013:11
djszapibut not sure what that is for and how to interpret into dh13:11
djszapijust copy/paste ?13:11
X-FadeCan't hurt :)13:11
djszapiI have no idea what that is supposed to mean13:12
X-FadeAnyone here familiar with libcontentaction and desktop files?13:12
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X-FadeApps client doesn't come to the front when you put it in the background and click on the icon again.13:13
X-FadeEventhough we use invoker --single-instance.13:13
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RST38hProbably not handling some event right13:16
X-FadeWe register a dbus service in the same desktop file13:17
X-FadeMight be that it gets confused that it is already running then.13:17
RST38hI would suggest removing dbus stuff completely, Harmattan appears to deprecate it13:19
X-FadeNo, this is dbus for an urischeme13:19
RST38hif you do have dbug, carefully check what kind of messages you are getting from it13:19
X-FadeNot to start the app.13:19
RST38hIt is quite possible that the OS tries "waking up" your app by sending some specific dbus message13:19
RST38hSome Fremantle remnant nobody cared to clean up13:20
X-FadeAh, right.. It might be smart ;)13:20
X-FadeWell, tries to be :)13:20
djszapiX-Fade: does it make sense to merge the rpm and debian based kde packages into one repository ?13:23
djszapiPA and Harmattan specially.13:23
X-Fadedjszapi: It might help you share resources (human)13:23
djszapiX-Fade: they do not know deb packaging and I do not know rpm either. I was thinking of consistency pov13:26
djszapiand the fact if there is a package update, I can see what line they added even if rpm13:26
X-Fadedjszapi: That does not matter as you can keep packaging separate.13:26
djszapiso that I can reflect to that in debian simpler.13:26
djszapiand this is true for sure vica versa.13:26
X-Fadeyou can have a debian.tar.gz, dsc and a spec file.13:27
djszapiwhat human resource sharing do you mean ?13:27
X-FadeThen you can target both in one project.13:27
djszapithat is the idea13:27
X-FadeSure, that can work.13:27
djszapithe orig.tar.{bz2/gz} would be shared.13:27
djszapiso we can share the suckyness13:27
djszapiif there is some serious issue with updating13:28
djszapiwe can share the update suckyness13:28
djszapiand interpret it into debian or rpm13:28
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djszapiinstead of going through the same theoritical issue13:28
djszapithat came to my mind previously.13:28
djszapiwhereas it might take a little bit of time in the beginning to get in somewhat sync.13:29
djszapiX-Fade: the future stuff again:
X-FadeYeah, that is make13:29
X-FadeWill happen on any system locally too.13:30
djszapiX-Fade can I keep UTC in sb, but UTC+2 outside ?13:37
djszapifor the clock, that is.13:37
X-Fadedjszapi: yes13:37
djszapiX-Fade hwclock -w after setting the time in sb ?13:39
djszapito UTC, that is.13:39
djszapiX-Fade also, are you familiar with this spectacle thing ?13:48
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djszapiX-Fade fakeroot date 02161206201214:06
djszapidate: cannot set date: Operation not permitted14:06
djszapiThu Feb 16 12:06:00 UTC 201214:06
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djszapiok timezone helped.14:24
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NsaneCoffe92 mAh idle =)14:51
RST38htoo much14:51
RST38hprolly running an RSS pull or something14:52
djszapiX-Fade: why does the apps4meego client handle only one external repository for dependencies ? Where does this limitation come from ? Design or implementation ?15:01
X-Fadedjszapi: It does not do any dependencies, I told you that before.15:04
X-Fadedjszapi: It is only listing things from ocs. Installing is all done by the OS.15:05
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NsaneCoffeRST38h, no its messageserver15:11
NsaneCoffeused top command in terminal15:12
NsaneCoffeon top of the list is messageserver with 95% cpu usage15:12
NsaneCoffeAny way i can force it to close15:12
NsaneCoffekill command wont let me15:13
RST38hyeah, another good candidate15:14
RST38hit won't let you because aegis prevents you from killing useful processes15:14
RST38hHave you tried shutting down messaging accounts from the UI?15:14
djszapiX-Fade why did we discuss aggregated repository then ?15:14
X-Fadedjszapi: That is just to have one repo.15:15
* RST38h yawns and loudly wonders if X-Fade & Co are planning a repository-neutral app manager UI15:15
RST38hThat would let you add repos a la HAM15:15
X-Fadedjszapi: So you can guarantee that everything in there actually installs.15:15
X-FadeRST38h: No plans15:16
RST38hCan the current Apps4Meego client be hacked to allow other repos?15:17
djszapiX-Fade: I am not getting why we mentioned shared (aggregated) repository.15:17
djszapiRST38h: ofc15:17
X-FadeRST38h: It doesn't use repos.15:17
djszapiRST38h: without any hack15:17
RST38hYou said it is using ob repos15:17
djszapiread above what X-Fade said :)15:17
djszapiRST38h: no15:18
X-FadeApps for MeeGo website imports from OBS.15:18
djszapiyou can put for instance the Harmattan SDK repository15:18
djszapiwhich is not obs15:18
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djszapiif we are speaking about dependencies15:18
X-FadeThe client talks to Apps website over OCS api.15:18
RST38hcustom web api then15:18
djszapiX-Fade in my understand, please correct me, but we do not need to have aggregated repository.15:18
X-FadeAnd uses the native backends to do the installing etc.15:19
djszapiX-Fade just proper sources.list on users' stuff.15:19
RST38hdjszapi: I think the reasoning he is to force users to use the OBS repo and the web site15:19
X-Fadedjszapi: The problem with that is that the repos can conflict with each other.15:19
RST38hNo carrot if pesky users start installing stuff from elsewhere15:19
djszapiX-Fade: yes they can15:20
RST38h+ of course it is for users' safety15:20
djszapiRST38h: I tend to disagree15:20
RST38hjust like aegis, you know, right?15:20
djszapiespecially because that is not why we established our standard.15:20
djszapithis OCS15:20
djszapiit exactly has the opposite purpose15:20
djszapito talk to any servers15:20
djszapiimplementing the same API15:20
* RST38h knows of only one standard - debian repository15:20
RST38hno idea why anyone needs another standard15:21
X-FadeThis is for metadata, not the actual install data.15:21
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RST38hyou can keep metadata in the same debian repository15:21
RST38hWith the apps index holding small metadata (as fields in package sections)15:21
X-FadeYeah, those 30MB Packages files work so well :)15:21
djszapiRST38h: Nemo does not use meego15:22
djszapiRST38h: nor does Mer.15:22
RST38hyou mean does not use debian?15:22
RST38hthere are rpm repositories15:22
RST38hanother platform, another standard, indeed15:22
RST38hX-Fade: Well, remove icon data, refer to it by URL15:22
RST38hX-Fade: And you suddenly truncate your 30MB to something like 5-7MB15:23
X-FadeRST38h: Yeah, the thing is that that is still way too much.15:23
RST38hDo not keep outdated package metadata. Store metadata gzipped, CPUs are now fast enough to gunzip on the fly15:23
X-FadeA browsing app should not have to go over all the dependency stuff etc.15:24
RST38hX-Fade: Ok. How much is too much? (want to make an estimate)'15:24
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RST38hYour apt-get goes over all the dependency stuff anyway15:24
X-FadeSo it would need to be slimmed down more, at which point you end up with something we are now doing with ocs.15:24
RST38hdpkg too15:24
X-FadeSure, but the store client doesn't need that info.15:24
X-FadeBut as it is one big text file, it needs to go through it anyway.15:25
RST38hBut it is there, on the device15:25
RST38hYou can index text files15:25
RST38hShould I show you how?15:25
X-FadeSure, that takes you 2 minutes :)15:25
RST38hWhen you download a new file, yes, if you do not go into advanced stuff15:25
RST38hIf you do, it does not take you 2 mins15:26
X-FadeServers should do processing, not the client.15:26
RST38hAnd if servers are down?...15:26
X-Fadethen you are out of luck anyway. But you just use the cached data.15:26
RST38h(it is a very practical case BTW, remember Nokia's AGPS server for Diablo disappearing?)15:26
X-FadeRST38h: Yeah, but then you can't install the app anyway.15:27
X-FadeI understand where you are getting at, but wrong example ;)15:27
RST38hwell the app is in the repo15:27
RST38hnot on the apps4meego server, right?15:27
X-FadeYeah and comes from repo.15:27
RST38hso if I handle all metadata locally (as I already have it thanks to apt) I should not need apps4meego15:27
RST38hAnd *here* is what I am coming to, indeed15:28
X-FadeAnyway, RESTfull api should do the same.15:28
RST38hThe main reason to do all processing on apps4meego would be all processing on apps4meego.15:28
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RST38hBecause once you get rid of icons inside metadata, you get something like <=1kB of metadata per package, so 30MB of matadata = 30000 packages15:29
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djszapiX-Fade: sorry for the distraction, but we are about to add JSON support to the standard fyi15:30
X-Fadedjszapi: For V2, I guess?15:30
djszapifor both.15:30
X-FadeI'd rather see V2 become stable at some point :)15:31
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djszapiX-Fade: well...we need a maintainer15:31
djszapiwhich might well be me if Henri cannot take it.15:31
djszapiFrank is about to step down.15:31
X-FadeHmm ok15:32
djszapiI would personally love Henri taking it15:32
djszapiand I only care about the client qt bits.15:32
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djszapiX-Fade do you have an example for merged deb/rpm repository ?15:37
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djszapiRST38h: if you would do what you say you would lose the advantage of the API15:41
djszapiand you would need to ahck differends together to get it done as it nicely work on its own.15:42
djszapihack different standards*15:42
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X-Fadedjszapi: Setting up the project is easy, just add multiple repositories.15:45
X-Fadedjszapi: Then in the package you add .dsc and debian.tar.gz and spec file.15:46
djszapiX-Fade: I would probably merge the Harmattan packages into the PA repository.15:47
X-Fadedjszapi: I'd suggest you test it in your home project or so.15:47
X-Fadedjszapi: But sure, you can do it there too ;)15:47
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djszapiX-Fade: is it possible to just rename a stuff, like s/CE:MW:PlasmaActive/CE:MW:KDE/ ?15:49
djszapiX-Fade: Although, speaking of which, we would kinda depend on each other with orig.tar.{bz2/gz} updated, which might not be a cool thing.15:50
X-FadeI don't think renaming is possible.15:51
djszapiso it might introduce a testing repository concept.15:51
X-FadeYeah and a maintainer..15:51
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djszapimaintainer of what ?15:51
X-FadeNot that just everybody updates whenever they want :)15:51
Venemo_N950Jaffa, ping15:52
djszapiX-Fade: mmm I dislike this bureaucracy personally.15:52
djszapithat is what made Surround die.15:52
djszapiand that is why our community repository got a little bit of a success15:52
X-Fadedjszapi: You noticed yourself what happened when someone decided to update openssl  ;)15:53
X-Fadedjszapi: It is a pain, that needs communication.15:53
djszapibut as far as it is not a common case, just in every blue moon, I think it is more overhead to communicate everything in this special case.15:54
X-FadeSo that is why project like Mer etc, do automated checks and then need a review before a SR is accepted.15:54
X-FadeYou can have multiple reviewers/maintainers though15:54
djszapithey did not make 500 packages that fast as we did regarding the available human resource.15:55
djszapiyes, but that is the thing15:55
djszapinobody likes packaging; we are all developers; it is the neccesary evil for us ;P15:55
X-FadeBut maintaining is more than just dump some packages in a repo.15:55
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X-FadeAnd that is why maintainer is a whole different job :)15:55
JaffaVenemo_N950: Pong15:56
djszapiX-Fade: the problem is that mobile stuff are changing packaging too fast15:57
djszapiI spent 2 years with debian packaging15:57
djszapiand I would need to relearn everything for rpm15:57
RST38hdjszapi: right. because I might not need the api in the first place.15:58
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X-Fadedjszapi: if you have a proper yaml, the rpms are easy.15:59
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djszapiX-Fade you mean spectacle ?16:01
X-Fadedjszapi: An example:
X-Fadedjszapi: Yeah.16:01
djszapiit is just damn that16:01
djszapiI spent a decent in my life with debian stuff16:02
djszapiand I need to re-learn everything16:02
djszapiI am not happy about it16:02
* djszapi has never understood the deb->rpm or rpm->deb like changes16:02
djszapiit is just way too big change.16:02
X-Fadedjszapi: Well, it is basically the same.16:02
X-FadeThe app doesn't change, so you only need a few lines of packaging changes. It isn't that complicated.16:03
djszapiI need to drop all my work16:03
djszapifor zillion packages, like 30016:03
X-FadeCheck the example, you can copy/paste and adapt that easily.16:03
djszapirm -rf */debian16:03
djszapiand set up 300 rpm stuff16:03
djszapieven if I know nothing about rpm16:03
djszapiit is a very huge mentality, area and everything change.16:04
X-FadeOr write a tool to create yaml from /debian dir and you are a hero :)16:04
djszapiespecially because rpm sucks ;)16:04
djszapinot really16:04
djszapithat is not gonna work since they are just ... different16:04
djszapiI do not think it can be automated.16:04
X-FadeIt can be automated to to most of the work.16:04
X-FadeBut then you need to tune some things.16:04
djszapiit is like JSON or XML if you make a simple s tandard output for them as we do in OCS16:05
djszapithey are just not interchangable on purpose.16:05
X-FadeBut a lot of data you can just copy over, field names are just different.16:05
djszapiX-Fade: so you are saying the rules file has a similar concept in rpm ?16:05
djszapisay, "dh" way ?16:05
djszapior source for mat ...16:06
djszapior the control entries.16:06
djszapiit is a whole bunch of distinct stuff imho16:06
X-FadeYou don't need a lot of that stuff in rpm.16:06
X-FadeCheck my yaml16:06
X-FadeThat is all that is needed for our Qt/Qml app to be built and packaged.16:07
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djszapiI do not see any binary compatibility consideration it16:07
djszapiin it*16:07
djszapiand that is prolly the most powerful side of the debian packaging system16:07
X-FadeHow do you mean?16:07
X-Fade>= version X etc ?16:08
djszapiI am referring to the symbols file.16:08
djszapiand the control file management wrt this16:08
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X-FadeHave not needed that yet, that you need to ask others :)16:09
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djszapianybody having an idea why "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" build the package, but "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot | tee buildlog" fails at the quilt stage ?16:10
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djszapiXFade ^16:16
djszapimeh, X-Fade16:16
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b00^wkanyone knows here how I can if at all configure the Wifi Hotspot start WITHOUT it requesting me to connect to a WLAN  ?16:19
b00^wkit does not run without a running 3,3g connection16:20
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djszapiCould you please rephrase the question ? I am not getting it.16:20
b00^wkOk, here is this app in my Nokia, called Wifi Hotspot16:21
djszapisimilar to joikuspot ?16:21
djszapior is that your app ?16:21
b00^wki want to use it just for that - a wifi ap, so clients can connect and exchange data16:21
b00^wkwithout the bloody wlan  / 3g running16:21
b00^wkand all of them downloading stuff off the net16:21
djszapijoikuspot for instance does not run with 3g, if you do not want it to.16:22
b00^wkbut, this app does not start unless there is an established WLAN, which is the 3g in my case16:22
djszapibut please clarify: are you the author of joikuspot or do you have a similar app ?16:22
b00^wkdjszapi,  i see16:22
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b00^wkdjszapi, as you asking me ?16:22
b00^wkno , i've never seen that app16:22
djszapiwell, the hotspot needs to have internet connection somehow....16:23
djszapilet it either 3g or wifi....16:23
b00^wkfor what ?16:23
djszapifor accessing the internet from clients.16:23
b00^wkwhy can't i just setup a software ap ?16:23
b00^wkno, i don't want any internet16:23
b00^wkjust an access point16:23
djszapiwell it is a phone, not a router after all :)16:23
b00^wkwhats the difference when my clients can still talk to each other ?16:24
b00^wkits an unneccessary restriction16:24
b00^wkthat I have to have a wlan running to do this16:24
djszapiI do not think that app was meant for a router replacement.16:24
b00^wkbut does not the app rely on the kernel driver to actually do the software access point ?16:25
b00^wki think the app's work here is minimal in that regard16:25
Jaffadjszapi: He's asking for an app which willprovideDHCP on an ad-hoc WLAN16:25
djszapib00^wk it does16:25
djszapiand that is why people cannot customize it.16:26
djszapibecause the kernel is frozen to externals.16:26
djszapibut I am not in an intimidate relation with the kernel driver honestly :)16:26
Jaffab00^wk: If you configure each client with an ad-hoc WLAN with the same details, it should Just Work. You do not need a router-type device.16:26
b00^wki still dont' understand where is that in kernel restriction to START wlan to do this16:26
b00^wkJaffa,  problem is, the Hotspot does not start otherwise :(16:26
b00^wkand, so none of the clients can connect16:27
djszapib00^wk: have you looked at the kernel code ?16:27
Jaffab00^wk: I'm saying do not use hots[ot16:27
djszapithe relevant driver, I mean.16:27
b00^wkdjszapi, i beleive this is the texas instruments wlan adapter, and,16:27
b00^wkthe iwl whatever driver ?16:27
Jaffab00^wk: Youonlyneed it when wanting to roite the other devices to a3G connection.16:27
djszapib00^wk: I think so.16:27
Jaffab00^wk: you want the very definitipn of an ad-hoc WLAN16:28
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b00^wkok, without any definitions, if you can connect for me two clients to the phone, without that nasty app running16:28
b00^wkthen i don't care what definition of yoru wlan is16:29
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djszapiX-Fade ping16:59
djszapiX-Fade have you seen this new QBS build system ?16:59
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djszapigri: the icon and plugin thingy might be fixed for PR 1.3 :D17:16
gridjszapi: Will this ever be released? :D17:16
djszapihow should I know ? :D17:17
griAren't you a fortune teller?17:19
djszapigri: I am, but the crystal is at home :)17:20
Jeffrey04dev an app for that then :)17:20
Jeffrey04tot 1.3 will be out anyway?!/melsop74/status/15916173554942771217:20
Jeffrey04unless he is not telling the truth lol17:20
griwow, I just found a cool shortcut in QtCreator: holding ctrl and shift lets you move your current line up/down with the cursor keys :)17:23
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djszapigri: I even knew this and I really rarely use qtcreator...17:26
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grisince you're a fortune teller that does not count17:28
djszapiI think this option is even in the first video intro really :)17:29
djszapiit is just .. such a basic stuff.17:29
griyeah, stuff I never looked or searched for17:30
griI just happened to find it by accident17:30
djszapigri: you can soon try out the plasma components for Harmattan if you wanna to.17:33
djszapinot that it makes too much sense, but it at least can be experimented with.17:33
griis there anything special about them?17:34
djszapiwell, it is a brand new component set17:35
djszapiit is like asking what the difference between oxygen icons or other icon set, dunno, taste probably.17:35
djszapithis is what used on Plasma Active.17:36
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djszapigri: I think I will now implement soon the main page for my game with Play/Resume and the Help labels17:40
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djszapiX-Fade how could I trigger -j5 or even more for kdelibs build on c-obs ?17:54
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djszapiX-Fade parallel option is already in the rules file, but it is still slow.17:54
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gridjszapi: is the icon on the top right self-speaking or should I write "update available" or something like that next to it (left or below)?18:01
djszapigri: check the updater18:03
djszapito replicate that if you wanna well integrate it18:03
grithey only show the icon - then I won't assume the user is too stupid to guess what it means18:07
djszapiwell they spam the feed18:09
djszapiso it is all okay to do it that way18:09
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djszapigri: what do you think about usability POV for the help option ? Shall I pop up a Dialog or just push a help page with back toolicon ?18:24
gridjszapi: I'd love bubble popups ... I think my N9 showed such on the first start but I don't know for sure18:26
grithe system always does the page thingy with back button elsewhere18:27
djszapiI am not in favor of popup dialogs...18:28
djszapigri: to be honest I am not sure what certain components are in Extra, like CountBubble or Tumbler18:30
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itsnotabigtrucki believe a tumbler is a digit selector you can scroll up and down through18:31
itsnotabigtruckmtimer has tumblers18:31
djszapiscreenshot ?18:31
djszapiI need a horizontal slider for the alphabet18:31
djszapiwonder whether I could use it for that.18:31
djszapiuh-huh, I found a screenshot, cool18:33
djszapiwell, it is useless for my goal :)18:33
djszapiI need a horizontal listview simply after all18:33
djszapigri: the tour what you are referring to is too much work :D18:36
djszapiI admit, it is fancy, but come on, it is just an anagram game :)18:36
itsnotabigtruckoh yeah, speaking of that, time to load up that deb18:37
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: can you wait few minutes ?18:37
djszapiand you could help a mainpage with help/play options18:37
djszapiso that the game does not start automatically after the launch18:38
djszapiand gri complained it is not intuitive18:38
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djszapiso I would add a help, too18:38
itsnotabigtrucki still don't understand why kanagram could possibly need a postinst script that restarts pulseaudio18:39
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: because it is install a pulse config file ?18:41
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: it does? i'm not finding that anywhere in the package...18:45
djszapigri: actually help sucks :)18:45
djszapipeople do not read help, so I should rather make it intuitive by default, but not sure how18:45
djszapigri: what would make you guess you can click on the letter ?
itsnotabigtruckoh there it is, ./opt/kanagram/share/policy/etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf.d/kanagram.conf18:46
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: I pasted the policy framework documentation last time18:46
djszapiplease read it for details.18:46
djszapiI could just well restart it with pactl and not full pulseaudio restart18:46
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torarnejavispedro: ping18:46
djszapibut I would need to make a hackery to identify the process18:47
torarneoh, not here18:47
djszapibut I did not have time, and I am not sure it is worth it18:47
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djszapiwhat is wrong about restarting pulse ?18:47
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: i'm reading up on this...are you sure you're putting the file in the right place18:48
itsnotabigtruckangry birds has its pulseaudio file at /usr/share/policy/etc/pulse/xpolicy.conf.d/18:48
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: no, I am putting it into the wrong place.18:49
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itsnotabigtruckalso it looks like the ./opt/kanagram/include/ dir ought to be dropped from the package18:51
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djszapithe plasma components based standalone will pick up the header from there.18:52
djszapithe engine, that is.18:52
itsnotabigtruckhrm? what good would c headers for a game be on the phone itself18:53
djszapioh you meant include, no lib18:54
DocScrutinizerjavispedro left #maemo (didn't contribute much) in favour of #harmattan and his struggle to fight aegis introduced limitations. It seems he got fed up with this as well now, judging by the frequency he shows up here. So: weldone Nokia - another brilliant devel distracted from work for fremantle by this abomination, then finally seems to have turned away completely from Nokia-based device/OS "ecosystem"18:54
djszapieven I should drop the oggs18:54
djszapibut I did not care about such unproductive stuff so far18:54
itsnotabigtruckalso djszapi: did you ever try chmod +x'ing your launcher script before the build18:55
itsnotabigtrucki'd expect the package builder would keep the permissions and you wouldn't need to mess with that in postinst18:55
djszapiyes we all tried, at least 10-20 people so far18:55
djszapijust on this channel18:55
djszapihah, no18:55
djszapiotherwise we would not obviously do this18:55
djszapiif it had worked oob, why would we have touched this ?18:56
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* itsnotabigtruck shrugs18:56
torarneDocScrutinizer: i see :/18:56
itsnotabigtruckthere has to be a way18:56
djszapiyou mentioned so far things I would never really like to bother with18:57
djszapiexcept pulse.18:57
djszapiespecially the include stuff18:57
djszapiand the chmod18:57
djszapichmod is needed, include would cause own install file definition, and manual maintenance of the files.18:57
itsnotabigtruckspeaking of aegis - djszapi: maybe add an <aegis><request><for path="x" /></request></aegis>18:57
djszapiI am so happy with the current way, I have no install file.18:58
djszapiwhy ?18:58
djszapiI do not need any special creds18:58
itsnotabigtruckright, that would drop all creds, precisely because of that18:58
itsnotabigtruckby changing from add behavior to set behavior18:58
djszapiwell I implemented that bit in the platform really :)18:59
djszapiI do not need this at all.18:59
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torarneis setcap available in a pacakge on harmattan?19:08
djszapisetcap or setfcap ?19:09
torarnesetcap (i think)19:10
torarneactually the issue im trying to solve is sudo not working as user on an open-mode flashed device19:10
djszapiI do not see setcap anywhere.19:10
djszapiwhere do you see it ?19:10
djszapiI see only setfcap19:10
djszapiand that is available forf ovi apps19:10
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torarnei get "unable to change to sudoers gid: Operation not permitted", which i assume is because i don't have the cap to become uid 019:10
djszapiwhy would you do that in the first place ?19:11
torarneso i can add 'mount /foo/bar' to sudoers without a password19:12
torarnewithout opening up every other command do run as root19:12
torarnethe alternative is to use something like opensh, which just gives you root without even requiring a password19:13
djszapiI do not really understand where you got this setcap from19:13
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djszapiI only see setfcap19:13
djszapiI opened up the /usr/include/linux/capability.h file19:13
djszapino mention about setcap19:13
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djszapibut you can do anything in open mode anyway19:14
djszapisetcap is not a credential19:14
djszapiit is an app19:14
djszapiso what you actually need to ask is setfcap19:14
djszapiand as I said, that is available.19:14
djszapifor Ovi packages, not for user packages.19:14
djszapirequest CAP::setfcap19:15
djszapithough I would not really do it this way19:15
torarneso… not availble using apt-get on device?19:15
djszapiohh you are interested in a package.19:15
torarneyepp :)19:15
itsnotabigtruckwhat's the significance to the type subcode (/device/hw-version)19:15
torarnei don't like doing echo 'rootme' | devel-su root -c "foo" in my scripts19:15
torarnenor do i want to use opensh -c 'foo' (which does not ask for a password)19:16
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itsnotabigtrucktorarne: put your stuff in a package, assert the needed caps19:16
djszapitorarne: if it is not in the community repository, you are out of the luck19:16
torarneitsnotabigtruck: this is not for a ovi store thing, this is just for script to set up a device for development19:17
djszapiyou need to port libcap19:17
torarnedjszapi: i see, hmm19:17
djszapibut you do not need to bother with this if you have RDC19:17
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: it's called d e v e l o p e r m o d e19:17
torarnedjszapi: im trying to make a setup for people without rdc, but with open mode19:17
itsnotabigtruckthere's nothing you can do from an ovi app that you can't do from an unsigned app, with devmode on19:18
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: you are not getting the issue19:18
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: there is *NO* available libcap19:18
djszapiso he can *NOT* use setcap19:19
djszapisince it is *NOT* presented.19:19
itsnotabigtruckwell, i did miss the part about this being on an openmoded phone already19:19
torarnesee that ugly echo rootme | devel-su19:19
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torarnei dont' want to do that, but still want the user to be able to mount19:19
torarnewhich would be solvable with sudo19:19
djszapitorarne: you cannot mount with stock kernel19:19
torarnethis is open mode, patched19:20
itsnotabigtrucktorarne: afaik doc's "open mode kernel" just nulls out all aegis permission checks19:20
itsnotabigtruckthat means that aegis permission grants still work19:20
itsnotabigtruckotherwise loads of stuff would break19:20
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djszapitorarne: you can do everything then if you wish to19:20
itsnotabigtruckso put your thing in a package, then add an _aegis manifest to it19:20
itsnotabigtruckthat asserts UID::root19:20
itsnotabigtruckthat basically makes your thing setuid root19:20
djszapitorarne: try AEGIS_FIXED_ORIGIN19:20
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itsnotabigtruckhowever, are you sure you need root access19:21
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: that is exactly what he wanted to avoid19:21
itsnotabigtruckmounting requires CAP::sys_admin, not uid = 019:21
torarneitsnotabigtruck: yes, it nulls out all checks, but look at the last line
itsnotabigtruckwhat happens if you aegis-exec on an openmoded phone19:22
torarneitsnotabigtruck: im trying to get mounting working by having the command in the sudoers file19:22
torarneits doing /* aegis hack: always success for root */19:22
itsnotabigtruckaegis-exec -a CAP::sys_admin "$0" $@19:22
itsnotabigtrucktry that19:22
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torarneitsnotabigtruck: fails :/19:24
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torarneoh, wait19:27
torarnenow i get fuse: failed to open /dev/fuse: Permission denied19:28
torarneso i think it's working, somewhat, but i need more permissions19:28
djszapiyou can always add tcb19:29
djszapithough it sounds a very insecure system to me.19:29
torarneno worse than echo 'rootme' | devel-su :)19:29
djszapimuch worse from sec pov.19:30
djszapibut if you would like to avoid the accumulating of the creds, just use tcb19:30
djszapiand you can be truly root.19:30
torarnewhat is tcb?19:30
itsnotabigtrucktorarne: the keys to the castle19:33
itsnotabigtruckit sounds like you need to be uid=0 to access /dev/fuse or something19:34
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torarnechgrp developer /dev/fuse19:36
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itsnotabigtruckcrw-rw----    1 root     root       10, 229 Dec 31  1969 /dev/fuse19:36
torarneone step closer19:36
torarne[pid  5451] mount("torarne@", ".", "fuse", MS_NOSUID|MS_NODEV, "max_read=65536,fd=5,rootmode=400"...) = -1 EPERM (Operation not permitted)19:37
torarne[pid  5451] write(2, "fusermount: mount failed: Operat"..., 50fusermount: mount failed: Operation not permitted19:37
djszapitorarne: why don't you try tcb ?19:37
djszapiyour system is completely insecure anyway19:37
torarnei still don't know what it is :)19:37
RST38hAh, Apple finally starts disabling unathorized application development in MacOS19:38
torarnehmm, the previous lines was with strace -f aegis-exec -a CAP::sys_admin -a CAP::sys_admin sshfs torarne@ /mnt/torarne19:38
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RST38hThe end is, indeed, near now.19:38
torarneso i already have that cap :/19:38
itsnotabigtruckRST38h: link?19:39
djszapitorarne: why don't you request "tcb" ?19:40
djszapiwhat is wrong about that ?19:40
djszapias I said, your system has zero security :)19:40
djszapiit is not any hole.19:40
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: because there's no need...19:40
djszapiand probably less trouble workflow-wise.19:40
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: of course there is19:41
torarnedjszapi: am i not doing that when runnning  aegis-exec -a CAP::sys_admin -a CAP::sys_admin sshfs torarne@ /mnt/torarne ?19:41
djszapisince it does not work for some reason19:41
itsnotabigtruckif you're asserting tcb through the package just to aegis-exec stuff19:41
itsnotabigtruckyou might as well assert the capabilities you actually need19:41
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: huh ?19:41
itsnotabigtrucktorarne: do aegis-exec -a CAP::sys_admin accli -I19:41
djszapiwho said it should be done in the package for testing ?19:41
djszapisorry, it is too much noise to me, I am off.19:41
itsnotabigtrucksee if CAP::sys_admin is actually in the list19:42
torarneitsnotabigtruck: nope, it's not :/19:42
itsnotabigtruckthere's the answer then :/19:42
itsnotabigtruckwell, for now, test with19:42
itsnotabigtruckopensh -c 'aegis-exec -c -a CAP::sys_admin mount ...'19:42
torarneah, yes, that works :)19:43
torarneboth opensh and the hacky echo 'rootme' | devel-su works19:43
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torarneim curious why sudo doesnt, thats all :)19:43
djszapimy point too from the beginning.19:43
itsnotabigtrucki don't understand why the devel-su version works...i guess on open mode devel-su grants all caps19:43
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djszapiit is very simple really why it works.19:44
torarneitsnotabigtruck: yes, it's a patched kernel that indeed grants all caps for root19:44
itsnotabigtrucktorarne: how is this script being invoked19:44
itsnotabigtruckwhy don't you just put19:44
itsnotabigtruckif ! /usr/bin/accli -t CAP::sys_admin; then; echo 'sys_admin capability is required'; exit 1; fi19:45
itsnotabigtruckand request that users invoke it as opensh -c 'sh'19:45
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itsnotabigtruckoh wait, this runs from the pc side19:46
djszapitorarne: what is your project about, if I may ask ?19:46
torarnejust doing qt5 and webkit development with the n9/n950 as a target19:47
torarnehacking up some scripts to bootstrap that19:47
torarneand the less hacks (regular sudo vs opensh or echo 'rootme') the better19:48
djszapitorarne: maybe you could assign tcb universally to the root user :D19:48
itsnotabigtruckok, now i see why using a package isn't so convenient19:48
djszapiand you would never really need to worry. :)19:48
itsnotabigtrucktorarne: just prompt the user for their root password19:49
torarneyeah, i think opensh is probably even easier19:49
torarneit doesnt care what the pwd is19:49
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djszapitorarne: if I were you I would try to assign tcb to root, and I would not even need opensh and other hacks.19:50
djszapieverything would work as on a linux desktop machine.19:50
djszapiotherwise you always need to hack here and there.19:50
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: i don't think you can 'assign' privileges to users...19:51
itsnotabigtruckthere's various ways you could arrange it to assert tcb when you su to root19:51
itsnotabigtruckthat's really the problem with aegis19:52
itsnotabigtruckit has no concept whatsoever of users and roles19:52
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: of course you can19:52
itsnotabigtruckwhich every real security model is based on19:52
djszapisince we decided what to assign19:53
djszapibut surely, you know better :)19:53
itsnotabigtruckand aegis being entrenched makes it close to impossible to substitute it for an actually functioning security model19:53
djszapiand the beautiness is that with tcb, no need to worry anymore.19:53
djszapiabout nothing.19:53
djszapiotherwise you keep repeating the aforementioned dirty hacks.19:53
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djszapithere is no "su to root"19:56
djszapiand it does have concept of users and roles.19:56
djszapiyou can even explicitely request users in the manifest (as zillion apps do btw) even on a normal device.19:56
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djszapibut of course there is no need for more than root and users since it is not a linux workstation19:57
djszapiHarmattan is never meant to be a multiuser unix workstation for good.19:57
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djszapi19:51 < itsnotabigtruck> djszapi: i don't think you can 'assign' privileges to users... -> of course not without kernel modification19:59
djszapibut since it is an open kernel, it is quite possible.19:59
djszapimoreover you can request user uid on a stock device and request the credentials for that process which is gonna run as user.19:59
djszapiso I do not see the issue.19:59
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djszapiand with open mode kernel, you can do what you would like to do. I would suggest being truely root, if the openness is the purpose, and not bother with credentials here and there.20:00
djszapi19:52 < itsnotabigtruck> which every real security model is based on -> not really.20:02
djszapiactually the meego and tizen security model, called "Smack" has the same concept wrt this issue in question, like aegis.20:02
djszapisame with Android afaik.20:03
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DocScrutinizerer, indeed20:28
DocScrutinizeropenmode kernel doesn't care about tcb20:30
DocScrutinizerso opensh basically not needed at all20:31
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DocScrutinizeropensh was of any use only for "normal mode" if you could succeed to isntall it in a way normalmode doesn't MALF immediately20:33
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DocScrutinizersince any install in openmode seems to cause MALF when you change to "normal mode" later on, opensh in the form we got it now is basically useless20:34
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itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: it's because installing something = local aegis signatures on various files20:36
itsnotabigtruckif you make an aegis signature in open mode and go back to closed mode, that signature isn't valid anymore20:36
itsnotabigtruckbad signature = malf on boot20:36
DocScrutinizerit's because messing with some of the relevant files will invalidate their hashes20:36
itsnotabigtruckbut those hashes are authenticated with the 'local signatures'20:37
DocScrutinizerwhatever that is20:37
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DocScrutinizeranyway, bbl20:37
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djszapiN9local sign is not the only type of those.20:48
djszapiN9and yes, opensh makes no sense in open mode kernel20:50
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djszapiN9and what i would actually for is a kernel with sanely redefined policyset in the first place.20:52
djszapiN9it is not a demand to drop the security completely for doing things.20:53
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jesuschristanyone using lpsmagic mod plus zones app ?21:13
djszapijesuschrist: ask the question directly :)21:18
jesuschristlpsmagic doesnt work with zones. this happens to anyone else ? <-- question21:19
Mekwhat is lpsmagic?21:20
jesuschristMek :
Mekwell yeah, that can't work since zones replaces the standby screen21:22
Mek(and admittedly doesn't show too much useful information on the standby screen yet)21:22
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Sazpaimonso, does GSM have a phase out year21:23
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Sazpaimonout of curiosity21:23
djszapiMek: good work on the android front with calligra btw :)21:23
MekI guess I could try to make zones show the operator_logo image, that would then also make this work again...21:24
alteregoSazpaimon: that would very much depend on the country, and no, I doubt anyone is willing to do it for the foreseeable future, as a lot of infrastructure is in place that uses the tech.21:24
SazpaimonI mean, it has to go away at some point21:26
Sazpaimonits already kind of silly to have GSM, UMTS AND LTE radios on the same device21:26
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djszapiMek: was it a real hard work to port a qt based project to Android ?21:33
Mekdjszapi: not really, most of the hard work was already done by the necessitas project21:34
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faenildjszapi: my thesis is a Qt android software, if you're interested ;)21:34
xmlich02faenil, i am interested21:34
faenilI'm here :)21:35
faenilfor 10 mins :)21:35
xmlich02could you upload your thesis?21:35
djszapifaenil: if you do not reinvent the wheel this time ;)21:36
faenilI can't because it's not finished yet, I'm graduating on 24th :)21:36
faenilyou'll find it in the Android Market in the next weeks :)21:36
faenildjszapi: it's a 3D model viewer, made for Counsil of National Research here in Pisa :)21:37
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djszapifaenil: you can upload, it is not a problem, if unfinished.21:37
faenildjszapi: it could be :) I don't know if it's only free or opensource too yet :)21:38
djszapiN9we do not need code, just pdf :)21:39
djszapiN9but as you wish.21:40
faenildjszapiN9: what do you need the pdf for? XD21:40
faenilyou'll have once it's finished then :D don't want to share it now :D21:42
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faenilanyway, it's a 3 CFU thesis...nothing big21:43
faenilstill, it took a while21:43
faenildefinitely not the same amount of time a 3 CFU exam needs21:43
faenilmuch more :)21:43
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faenilxmlich02: you too interested in the pdf? or wanted to ask anything?21:44
xmlich02just pdf21:44
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itsnotabigtruckspeaking of zones21:45
itsnotabigtruckis there some reason why ovi store let somebody list a bunch of their apps as being from "nokia"21:45
itsnotabigtruck < all of those, including zones21:46
faenilxmlich02: oh ok...don't think you'll find anything that interesting in there anyway :) there is almost nothing about implementation details there21:46
faenildjszapi: ^21:46
itsnotabigtruckapparently a not-insignificant number of people think zones is a nokia app, and some of them were indignant about it costing $5 for something like that21:46
djszapiand some Nokia apps are not mentioned as Nokia apps on the contrary.21:47
itsnotabigtruckalso you guys were talking about 'setfcap' capability earlier21:48
jesuschristso zones isnt from nokia ? uh ?21:48
itsnotabigtruckturns out it's a completely useless capability21:48
djszapiI do not know what it is for21:48
djszapisince it is not documented properly in the header file at least.21:48
itsnotabigtruckit lets you interact with a feature that was off by default until linux 2.6.3321:48
djszapiand I was not having time to look at the kernel implementation with lxr.21:49
itsnotabigtruckso it's compiled out of harmattan's 2.6.32 kernel21:49
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: note that we have some patches merged into our kernel from later versions.21:49
djszapibut yeah, I do not know what that capability is for without documentation.21:49
itsnotabigtruckit's definitely compiled out though in this case21:50
itsnotabigtruck# CONFIG_SECURITY_FILE_CAPABILITIES is not set21:50
itsnotabigtruckand jesuschrist: nope, it isn't21:50
itsnotabigtruckit's from whoever owns appsforn9.com21:50
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: that does not make too much sense then21:51
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djszapibecause the credential is requestable for ovi apps :D21:52
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djszapiI wonder why it was selected that way...21:53
Mekitsnotabigtruck: zones is a nokia app (okay, developed by subcontractors, but all the code is owned by nokia)21:53
Mekand yes, it is silly that it costs $521:53
itsnotabigtruckmek: it is? why isn't the webpage on a nokia site then21:53
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: same with hiro21:53 looks super amateur and doesn't say anything about nokia21:53
djszapiit is developed by Nokia, subcontractors and Nokia owns the code.21:54
itsnotabigtruckit looks like is registered by a nokia project manager, but with a personal gmail email21:55
djszapiask them, they probably have a good reason.21:56
djszapiimho it was even more strange to have a big Nokia app development competition on a non-Nokia website :)21:57
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djszapiMek: How about the qt-components on Android, if any ?21:59
Mekdjszapi: I know there is some work going on, but I haven't tried to use them myself yet21:59
djszapiMek: do they also work on the qt5 port, or qt4 is still the only focus ?22:01
Mekqt4 only at the moment afaik22:01
djszapiMek: have you done any packaging ? Is it difficult to get used to ?22:02
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Mekit's all trivially easy if you use qmake and the necessitas version of qt creator, otherwise it is a bit tricky to figure out what to do exactly22:03
djszapiI was mostly interested in starting to port kdelibs22:03
djszapiand its dependencies beforehand.22:04
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djszapiMek: do they have QtQuick 1.1, especially pinch area support ? Qt 4.7.422:05
MekQt4.8, so I assume yes22:06
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djszapiMek, ok thanks22:17
djszapiWhat is the simplest way in qml to fill in a listview/repeater model with the alphabet so the letters are the elements ? I guess there is some trick instead of enumerating them explicitely ?22:18
befr0dfilling the listmodel with a for loop?22:19
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djszapithat is a way, yes for instance accumulating the characters in an array and return that22:20
djszapithough, array cannot be used in the same qml file.22:20
Mekmodel: 26, and then use some javascript to convert number to letter?22:20
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djszapithe most convenient would be how it is done in regexp :P [a-z,A-Z] :P22:21
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djszapiI am not sure how to mix string and integers according to the ascii table in javascript22:23
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djszapic = 'A'; while( c != ('Z' + 1)) letterList.append(c++); -> something like this would be in c++22:26
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* GeneralAntilles sighs.22:37
GeneralAntillesWhat are we going to do when we run completely out of reasonable mobile operating systems? :(22:37
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itsnotabigtruckGeneralAntilles: use android?22:49
itsnotabigtrucki went N9 for the hipster factor + it not being all tapped out in terms of apps/hacks to implement, but android is a perfectly serviceable os22:49
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Myname24Did someone ask the peregrine guys what is the status of the developpement?23:20
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