IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2012-01-10

*** Iktwo has left #harmattan00:00
*** JackaLX has quit IRC00:03
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan00:04
*** SqRt7744 has quit IRC00:08
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC00:11
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #harmattan00:13
*** e-yes[mac] has quit IRC00:16
*** xTs has quit IRC00:22
*** tomyri has joined #harmattan00:24
*** NIN101 has quit IRC00:25
*** SqRt7744 has joined #harmattan00:34
*** rcg1 has quit IRC00:37
*** SqRt7744 has quit IRC00:39
M4rtinKthp: I'm still working on the Touchpad installation howto (or rather handling something else so that I can resume working on it) :)00:45
*** leinir has quit IRC00:52
*** leinir has joined #harmattan00:53
*** leinir has joined #harmattan00:53
*** JackaLX has quit IRC00:55
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan00:58
*** JackaLX has quit IRC00:58
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan00:58
thpM4rtinK: good :) looking forward to it!01:05
*** JackaLX has quit IRC01:10
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan01:19
*** JackaLX has quit IRC01:22
npmhi thp, who makes the suction-cup windshield holder you use to hold your n9 (from recent pic you shared): and would you recommend it?01:30
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan01:34
Jarenpm: i would recommend the nokia cr-115 universal holder. I got that one with e52 and it's compatible with almost every phone01:44
*** rm_work has quit IRC01:48
*** Tronic has quit IRC01:56
*** befr0d has joined #harmattan02:00
thpnpm: i think the one i have (randomly searched on is from mumbi02:00
*** vladest has quit IRC02:01
thpnpm: if you search for B004E29SMG on you'll find it. but the cr-115 suggested by Jare also looks good02:02
*** Natunen has quit IRC02:04
*** arcean_ has quit IRC02:20
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC02:33
*** JackaLX has quit IRC02:39
*** adlan has quit IRC02:52
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan02:59
*** vladest has joined #harmattan03:09
*** Smtih has joined #harmattan03:20
*** adlan has joined #harmattan03:22
*** faenil has quit IRC03:38
*** Smtih has quit IRC03:50
*** Avengence has quit IRC04:04
*** Markion has joined #harmattan04:18
*** hardaker has quit IRC04:25
*** hardaker has joined #harmattan04:25
*** Markion has quit IRC04:25
*** janmalte has quit IRC04:28
itsnotabigtruckjare thp: any opinions on cases?04:40
*** befr0d has quit IRC05:39
*** vladest has quit IRC05:40
*** JackaLX has quit IRC05:41
*** pinheiro_ has joined #harmattan05:48
*** pinheiro has quit IRC05:48
*** e-yes[mac] has joined #harmattan05:49
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan05:51
*** e-yes[mac] has quit IRC06:06
*** Natunen has joined #harmattan06:07
*** bef0rd has joined #harmattan06:08
*** adlan has quit IRC06:21
*** adlan has joined #harmattan06:22
*** adlan has quit IRC06:22
*** adlan has joined #harmattan06:23
*** vladest has joined #harmattan06:48
*** risca has joined #harmattan07:03
*** xarcass has joined #harmattan07:17
* infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass07:30
*** risca has quit IRC07:30
*** Stskeepz has joined #harmattan07:37
ieatlinthahaha, a wanted rapist tried to pick up a female police officer in uniform in my hometown07:48
ieatlintapparently it didn't work as hoped..07:48
*** Stskeeps has left #harmattan07:49
*** xarcass has quit IRC08:03
*** xarcass has joined #harmattan08:04
*** hardaker has quit IRC08:06
*** JackaLX has quit IRC08:10
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan08:12
ZogG_laptopkralor: it's not actually fail08:17
ZogG_laptopieatlint: better die trying =)08:18
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC08:23
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #harmattan08:23
Jareitsnotabigtruck: well i've been using this one from Nokia for a couple of months now I like the ergonomics of it, but quality wise it's rubbish. The "leather" feels more like vinyl and it's already breaking from one corner08:24
Jareitsnotabigtruck: i've been thinking of buying this one soon:
itsnotabigtruckjare: hmm...i was thinking about that one, better avoid it then08:24
itsnotabigtruckdoesn't help that it seems impossible to find08:24
itsnotabigtrucki think they might have discontinued the 571 (the 572 for the lumia is more available, same but without the hole for the flash)08:25
*** JackaLX has quit IRC08:25
itsnotabigtruckthe noreve looks good, but i'm worried about the whole folding part08:25
Jarefolding part in that design or noreve?08:26
Jarethere are some really nice leather pouches in the market too, but I don't like the idea of always using two hands to get access to my phone08:28
*** Sazpaimon has quit IRC08:34
*** Sazpaimon has joined #harmattan08:34
*** daniel_o has joined #harmattan08:40
*** mece has joined #harmattan09:09
*** bef0rd has quit IRC09:14
*** norayr has quit IRC09:20
ieatlintZogG_laptop: there's trying, and there's walking up to a uniformed cop while being a wanted rapist and trying to hit on her, including offering your name which she then looked up on a computer and discovered his status09:22
ieatlintthat's pretty big fail09:22
ieatlintalso, tizen made a release of some sort? that's actually being taken seriously?09:24
dm8tbrieatlint: seems after people had cloned everything anyway out of their git, there was no turning back, but I wonder who really cares...09:26
ieatlintso unfortunate, but both nokia and intel killed any prospect of such a thing09:27
ieatlint(and yes, intel didn't have clean hands.. both companies threw millions at it, but if you ever saw the meego tablet ux, you'd see it too was doomed)09:27
*** daniel_o has quit IRC09:40
*** tbf has joined #harmattan09:49
*** vladest has quit IRC09:49
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan09:58
*** Avengence has joined #harmattan10:25
*** gabriel9 is now known as gabriel9|work10:39
*** gabriel9|work has quit IRC10:43
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan10:44
*** Arkenoi has joined #harmattan10:45
*** ArkanoiD_ has joined #harmattan10:45
*** vladest has joined #harmattan10:49
*** lamikr has joined #harmattan10:54
auenfrofl, just watching a youtube video11:04
auenfand ad for N9 came up at the start11:04
RST38hOk, so Microsoft did not have any presence at CES, they used Nokia's keynote and booth instead11:08
*** lamikr has quit IRC11:09
RST38hSaved themselves some money from that $1B bribe...11:09
ieatlintyou're in vegas?11:14
ieatlintbecause you should be drunk right now in a bar/strip club11:14
*** jreznik has joined #harmattan11:15
lucido I'm implementing a text password authenticastion method with hashing and it does not work for some reason I'm storing the password hash in a GConf string and then comparing the entered passwords hash value to it, heres the two functions: the sterr debug output is: Stored:  "±³w:ÀívxzOtÿ"     Entered:  "±³w:ÀívxzOtÿ when the same pasword is stored and then authenticated but the function still returns false11:17
lucidoonly difference in debug output is the missing double quotes at the end of the hash value of the entered password11:18
jonnilucido: works better if you base64 encode & decode it to gconf11:28
jonni(as without your hash string can have null characters in it, which will lead to failure on compare)11:31
jonniso its better to compare base64 encoded hashes11:32
RST38hieatlint: I am in Moscow right now, and sober like a doorknob.11:35
alteregoMy freakin' simulator doesn't have an up-to-date version of qt components, lame.11:37
*** Stecchino has joined #harmattan11:37
*** Stecchino has joined #harmattan11:37
RST38hStill amused by Engadget's report of the Nokia's keynote - it basically looks like Microsoft's keynote, with all the right decorations, Ballmer included11:37
fralswait that was a nokia keynote? ;(11:39
*** djszapi has joined #harmattan11:44
*** correne has joined #harmattan11:54
*** Avengence has quit IRC11:56
djszapiieatlint: yeah, the pre-alpha tizen release is serious :)11:59
*** Tronic has joined #harmattan12:02
djszapiinteresting, they still have debian format, but will change to rpm..12:11
*** snowpong has joined #harmattan12:11
lucidojonni, thanks12:22
*** adlan has quit IRC12:24
lucidoin wml, how I have several text input items and I'd like to change the enter key on the virtual keyboard to next so the input jumps to the next text input12:26
*** nid0 has quit IRC12:30
*** nid0 has joined #harmattan12:30
*** stroughtonsmith has joined #harmattan12:40
*** niqt has joined #harmattan12:44
*** gabriel9|work has joined #harmattan12:48
*** lizardo has joined #harmattan12:49
*** gabriel9 has quit IRC12:50
jonnilucido: use Keys.onReturnPressed  and FocusScope, like  , or make custom keyevent handler in c++12:51
*** correne is now known as Avengence12:52
*** gabriel9|work has quit IRC13:04
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan13:05
*** M4rtinK has joined #harmattan13:20
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC13:22
*** snowpong_ has joined #harmattan13:22
*** snowpong has quit IRC13:26
*** hhartz has joined #harmattan13:26
*** etrunko has joined #harmattan13:32
*** etrunko has quit IRC13:33
*** M4rtinK has joined #harmattan13:36
Avengenceso, nobody knows anything about messageserver?13:38
*** etrunko has joined #harmattan13:39
Avengencethis is getting frustrating... I had working email yesterday but the logging was exhausting /tmp so I killed messageserver and restarted it in order to delete the log (it leaves the file handle open) but since that restart it claims it can't find the files under .qmf under homedir. so I have a feeling I'm really not running it the right way (wrong user id, missing params, etc)13:40
*** snowpong_ is now known as snowpong13:40
jonnireboot :)13:40
Avengencejonni: problem is that messageserver doesn't start at boot13:41
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan13:41
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan13:41
Avengencefiguring that out is why I turned on logging.13:41
djszapiAvengence: write an upstart job for that :P13:41
lucidostart it manually with  /sbin/start13:42
jonniatleast dont start it by hand :)13:42
lucidoto debug I mean13:42
Avengencedjszapi: yesterday I came here asking how startup system works because I want to figure out where it should be starting and why it doesn't13:42
thpitsnotabigtruck: i never use any cases, so no suggestions there :/13:43
djszapiAvengence: it is simple ;-)13:43
Avengencefenix log tells me that it can't find running messageserver when it starts and there was no log file for messageserver until i ran the thing from terminal so as far as I can tell it's not running at boot13:43
Avengenceit worked once to run from terminal, and later i hit ctrl-c and ran it again with & so it backgrounded, which worked until i had to kill its pid to delete the log file13:44
Avengencelucido: /sbin/start will run it with proper environment or do i need to pass any flags?13:45
Avengencedjszapi: do you happen to have a link to any reference on upstart, or better, a copy of the config file for whatever should be starting it at boot so I can see what is different on mine?13:46
lucidoAvengence, it should run it jsut as upstart runs it at boot so you can debug it13:46
Avengencethe big mystery to me is just what I could have done to not have it running on it's own at boot. it worked after PR1.1, but then after a reboot due to battery exhaustion it stopped working. i didn't have developer mode on then, but flipped it on to debug13:47
lucidojsut grep the files in /etc for the name of the msgsrvr binary13:47
djszapiplease not under /etc13:47
djszapiupstart jobs are under /etc/init/13:47
Avengencelucido: ok, will do. stuck working ion terminal since I can't seem to login with ssh13:48
djszapialso, it is not "msgsrvr".13:48
Avengenceits /usr/bin/messageserver13:48
djszapiAvengence: /etc/init//xsession/messageserver.conf13:48
djszapiAvengence: that is not the main point :)13:48
djszapiexec /usr/bin/aegis-exec -s -u user -l "MAIL_BOOT_NO_WAIT=$PAR1 exec /usr/bin/messageserver" -> so there is a line like that13:48
lucidoAvengence, is this N9? there is no reason why shouldn't you be able to log in via ssh13:49
djszapieither use it in a custom stuff, or start to run it manually for debugging.13:49
lucidoAvengence, dev mode installed and passwd as user in ion13:49
Avengencelucido: yes, N9. from what I read, no root login, but login as user with password set either via passwd or setting lock password. it rejected my lock password and I didn't want to use passwd yet for fear I might not be able to get back in either way13:50
jonnilucido: as long as he isnt trying to log in as root :)13:50
lucidojonni, yes but you can devel-su once you logged in13:50
djszapiin certain cases, I would say, not all the time ;-)13:51
jonnilucido: yes you can, avengence's problem is that he tried user and not developer :)13:51
jonnisetting lock password has no affect on user-password, so if some forum states it, then its just wrong info.13:52
Avengencejonni: ok, so I should set passwd or user account to use ssh. i guess it defaults to blank so ssh doesn't allow access13:53
djszapimmm, the office-suite has a lacking feature that is wont fix. It does not recall the page you were previously after opening it again.13:53
Avengencemaybe better to just drop my ssh pubkey on here after I get the other bit sorted13:53
djszapi(I hope a simple plugin can fix this, and not platform limitation)13:53
jonniAvengence: user  ssh developer@ and read passwd from sdk connectivity tool, or set passwd to user account and use ssh user@....13:54
Avengencei was going based on instructions from PR1.0 that said to edit the sshd_config to turn off root login and set password for user with passwd. someone wrote an update to that saying PR1.1 fixes the root login hole and setting lockscreen password will set user password, but obvious only the first half of that claim is true.13:55
jonniby default you should only ssh to developer@, all other usernames are not meant to be used13:55
AvengenceI'm glad I asked again today since yesterday it seemed nobody here was alive when I first asked about messageserver13:56
Avengencejonni: is developer password static (which I should change) or something different per device that I need to get through SDK tools (not installed)13:57
jonniAvengence: it changes everytime you start sdk connectivity tool, but you can set it manually or upload ssh key to developer13:57
jonniie its random13:58
Avengenceok, i'll drop in ssh keys for both user and developer at somepoint (so i can be either as needed)13:58
AvengenceI'd probably have an easier time if I started from normal, but since somethinh borked email I'13:59
Avengencem chasing that first13:59
AvengenceI assume upstart runs as root so going to try the stuff from messageserver.conf as root14:01
jonnibut aegis-exec starts messageserver as user, so most likely it reads the conf as user .)14:01
Avengenceaegis-exec gets -u user as a parameter14:02
djszapiplus -s14:02
Avengenceso i asssume it runs as root as switches to user to run the rest14:02
djszapiyeah, as jonni said :)14:02
*** posix has quit IRC14:03
jonnione things that you might want to check is to check if /home/user/.qmf is user owned and all the recursive files inside it too. Just in case someone/you have started messageserver as root accidentally at somepoint14:07
jonniand ownerships could have messed up14:08
*** rcg1 has joined #harmattan14:08
AvengenceAHA! the check just before running message server, where it calls qmftool to see that there are any accounts, throughs a message in syslog saying that the account is using wrong XML from groups14:08
Avengenceplease change to <group name="settings"> for the gmail.service14:09
djszapijonni: that would be nasty without the proper credential which is not available without developer mode ;-)14:09
Avengencei only ran messageserver as user and I see the upstart script will fix permissions on the /usr/home/.qmf stuff14:10
Avengencegreat, there's 4 sections of group name=somestring, so which of the 4 are making the 2 messages in syslog saying to use group name="settings"14:12
djszapiyep, you are right about that: chown user:users $QDIR14:12
Avengencethough, that's not a recursive chown14:13
djszapithat does not matter.14:13
djszapisince it is created at that point14:13
djszapiso "subfolders" will inherit this setting since qmftool is also run as user14:13
Avengencereading again, it only sets that if it has to make the dir so it doesn't fix perms14:14
Avengencebut, that means people with hte 100% cpu use issue can just kill .qmf dir and it's all remade for them correctly14:14
djszapibut you need to create that once, right ?14:15
djszapiand when it is created, it is created properly.14:15
Avengenceno, the script will create it completely. it kills and remakes the temp dir, but if the whole .qmf dir is missing it will make it from scratch14:16
djszapithat is what I am saying14:16
djszapithe script will create it for you ...14:16
djszapitoo much worry for nothing ;-)14:16
AvengenceI can't help but notice the comment about the result of qmftool does not match the usage that qmftool prints14:16
jonnibut if files get wrong ownership by accidentally running messageserver as root, you can try fixing by recursive chown14:16
djszapithat is why I said, that would be nasty from platform developers14:17
jonniAvengence: so either figure out why gmail xml settings are messed up, or delete and recreate the account :)14:17
djszapibut I do not think they set user folders to root anyway14:17
jonninot the folder, but I was thinking about individual emails that it fetches14:18
djszapiand an average user cannot change the chown things14:18
djszapisame category, mails (which are also files then) should not be changed to root under ~user14:18
Avengencethe gmail file it complains about is in /usr/share/accounts/services and is owned by root. so, i think that's essentially a definition of basic gmail settings used like template when adding the account14:19
djszapiI do hope platform devs do not do that :)14:19
*** macmaN has quit IRC14:19
jonniah yes, and that mail dir doesnt have +w to root, so no way it gets corrupted.14:19
jonniso mostly Avengence currently has some email setting/xml bug14:20
djszapijonni: but platform devs are not "root" :)14:20
Avengenceall perms on the qmf dir are proper14:20
djszapiso they could actually change it still, but I hope they do not do that.14:20
Avengencei am starting to think something in the PR1.1 OTA update went wrong and some files maybe got reverted to what they were in 1.0 after second reboot14:21
jonniin that case removing and recreating the account should do the trick14:22
*** mece has left #harmattan14:22
Avengenceyeah, i will delete the gmail account, reboot and see if rest work normally14:26
Avengencethough I'm not sure that will help as I just checked to see qmftool is spraying a warning into syslog, but it still returns 0 as it should so the script should go on to start messageserver14:26
jonniah that xml warning comes for me too, so its just a feature :)14:29
*** fuz_ has quit IRC14:31
Avengenceok, so the devs need to fix up the file14:31
jonnigmail mails get updated just fine even with that warning14:32
jonniAvengence: maybe you havent enabled the scheduler for each of the email account, or how ofter your settings fetch the mail?14:33
Avengencewell, it looks like that worked. after reboot, it was really slow, took a few seconds to open mail, and hitting refresh causes a notifications that "Error occurred". I went to terminal and can see messageserver is running, but was probably busy sorting itself out. a moment later I got a notification that I got new mail on one of the other acccounts14:34
Avengencejonni: I set all my account to Always Up-to Date14:34
Avengencewhich I asssume means use IMAP IDLE14:34
Avengencei had 10min for on and off peak before, but changed it when I first stopped getting mail14:35
djszapione a side note: fetching emails is really slow for some reasons. 100 emails / 10 minutes or so with proper 3.5G connection14:35
jonniAvengence: and you've setup it on each account seperately? I've made a mistake in beginnign thinking that it was global value, untill i noticed that each one needs seperate config14:35
Avengenceit was some time later that I flipped on developer mode to find that messageserver was simply NOT running at all14:35
*** fuz_ has joined #harmattan14:36
*** ab has quit IRC14:36
jonnibut good that its working now, hopefully it still works when you readd the gmail14:36
Avengenceif you read the log from messageserver, you can see it frequently updates it's indexes and checks flags for all messages, so it could be a bit slow especially if you have high latency. I'm doing this over wifi to dsl since I'm out of my home country and rather not pay data roaming14:37
djszapiyes, but it is really slow14:37
Avengenceyep, that is next step, add gmail account, let it fetch, then reboot again and see if it all still works14:37
djszapiten minutes to start doing anything at then, like 10 seconds per mail14:37
djszapiI become grey by the time it fetches the qt5-development@ mailing list :)14:38
djszapiit is like that on Android or other phones I tried.14:38
*** Smtih has joined #harmattan14:38
jonniI have 8700 mails in my inbox, and 1st run was pretty fast14:39
jonnionly took few minutes'14:39
*** macmaN has joined #harmattan14:39
Avengencei have over 11000 in my main inbox but it only fetched some small subset and I haven't found a way to make it fetch them ALL14:39
djszapiI have also tried the same sim card with the same 3.5G connection in Lumia, and it was way faster.14:40
djszapiafter 2-3 weeks winter vacation, it had worked for 20-30 minutes, I think to fetch the mails only into one inbox.14:42
djszapiso even if there is this NOA account enabler plugin getting this very traffic at certain hours, it is not because of that.14:43
*** sebas has left #harmattan14:43
amppadoh, my application failed store QA14:58
amppaseems like they're testing with PR 1.014:58
Avengencehmm, i just noticed that IMAP accounts have setting for number of messages stored on device with All as an option, but gmail account does not. I wonder if I'd be better off setting up gmail as regular imap instead of google account type14:58
amppasplash screen is shown but the application itself shows only black screen14:58
jonniamppa: yes every application needs to work with PR1.0 always14:59
amppawould anyone have ideas what could cause this in 1.0?14:59
amppalooks pretty clear that it's something QML related14:59
amppaand works fine in 1.1 devices14:59
jonniamppa: cause what?14:59
amppaapplication shows just a black screen15:00
jonniamppa: maybe your using some PR1.1 only api, like swipelocking?15:00
amppafor me that sounds like QML doesn't load properly since the application obviously starts15:00
Avengencecan you set min version when submitting your app to the store?15:00
djszapiamppa: do you include a qt quick version which is only available in PR1.1 ?15:00
amppajonni: don't think so, it's quite basic QML application15:00
djszapilike 1.115:00
amppadid 1.0 still have Quick 1.0?15:01
jonniAvengence: no you cannot, avery N9 application needs to work with PR1.015:01
djszapiI still use this: "import 1.0".15:01
Avengenceugh, that makes it more difficult to use new APIs15:01
amppasince yeah, i'm importing QtQuick 1.115:01
djszapinot sure that is any culsprit though, just saying. :)15:01
djszapiYeah, I import 1.1, too15:02
amppaand that's in the store? shouldn't be it then15:02
Avengencewell, seems mail is still woring after adding the gmail account and rebooting15:02
djszapiamppa: check out the API documentation what is available in PR1.015:03
Avengenceso now I can shut off the logs and reboot again. default location of messageserver log will fill /tmp in less than a day15:03
*** tbf_ has joined #harmattan15:03
amppadjszapi: yeah, i guess i'll have to do that15:03
amppajust.. it's a basic QML application, no platform apis used15:04
djszapibut QtQuick is coming with 4.7.4 afaik15:04
djszapicheck the qt version in PR1.015:04
djszapiQtQuick1.1, that is15:04
amppaany idea if the forum nokia remote device access has N9?15:04
djszapiit has15:05
jonniamppa: have you checked your debian package that does it have the qml in it, or embedded .qrc15:05
*** ab has joined #harmattan15:05
*** ab has quit IRC15:05
*** ab has joined #harmattan15:05
amppajonni: i've given the .deb for a friend to test15:05
amppaworked like a charm15:05
amppathough that was a developer-enabled PR1.1 device as well15:06
amppabut yeah, i guess i can debug with RDA then15:06
djszapiamppa: why do you use plain qml by the way ?15:06
amppait's qml components15:07
amppawith plain qml i meant i don't use meego specific C++ apis15:07
*** tbf has quit IRC15:07
djszapiright, so you use at least "" ?15:07
jonniI can downgrade one of my N9's back to PR1.0 if RDA doesnt solve it...15:08
amppadjszapi: sure, import 1.015:08
djszapiamppa: that sounds ok to me.15:08
amppajonni: thanks for offering, let's hope i can solve this some easier way though :)15:09
deramjonni: isn't downgrading impossible on N9?15:09
djszapiwell, we internals can do that :)15:09
deramoh, didn't think about that15:09
djszapiactually my N950 still has PR1.015:10
*** lamikr has joined #harmattan15:10
*** xarcass has quit IRC15:11
*** JackaLX has quit IRC15:12
jonnithat reminds be that my ovi store app has been in QA process for the last 6 days...15:14
jonnialready added global orientationlock to it, but 1st I need to wait for previous version even be released, before I submit update.15:16
*** briglia has joined #harmattan15:18
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan15:25
Sazpaimonso like15:28
Sazpaimondoes nokia now have 3 phones that are nearly identical looking?15:28
djszapiwhich 3 ?15:30
SazpaimonN9 Lumia 800 and 90015:30
mgedminis it the big ugly one on the left?15:31
Sazpaimon900 is the one on the left yeah15:31
kevin_bthe black N9 is really stylish15:31
kevin_bbest design ever15:31
X-FadeNah, white one :)15:31
djszapiSazpaimon: interesting, thanks. I did not know there are two types of Lumia.15:32
Sazpaimon900 is coming to AT&T as well15:32
kevin_b monoblock, monocolor, and this awesome Nokia screen in black so uniform and beautiful15:32
Sazpaimonthe 900 looks just like the 800/N9 but with a larger body to make it the same screen size as the N915:33
Sazpaimonto make room for the windows keys15:33
kevin_bGod, both harmattan OS and the talent of Nokia could screw the market15:33
gabriel9i need n950 >_<15:33
Sazpaimongabriel9, you can get one15:33
Avengenceok, next fun quetsion: How do I view a stored password for an email account already configured on the N9? my laptop crapped out a few days ago and I may well ahve lost all the data on it, including stored passwords.15:34
Sazpaimonjust be willing to deal pay about $1600 for one15:34
gabriel9oh well if i ever find time to finsih my apps for n915:34
gabriel9i can buy slave for that15:34
Sazpaimonthats what Ive seen a few go for15:34
mgedminAvengence, hm, sniff network traffic on your router?15:34
Sazpaimonand even then there's a chance that the imei will get blacklisted on you15:35
Avengencemgedmin: would need SSL proxy for that...15:35
AvengenceMITM myself15:35
mgedminyou can turn off SSL on the N9 without knowing the password :)15:36
AvengenceSazpaimon: where do you buy a N950. I'd have paid that if I had not already paid 600EUR for N9...15:36
AvengenceI called Nokia and asked where to buy N950 when it first was released to developers. They called me back a few days later to say I can't buy it, I could only apply for one as a developer but all where already given out at that point so no chance unless they decided to make more. I literally asdked on the phone "How much do i have to pay to get a N950? I don't care, just name a price!" and they said NO15:37
jonniAvengence: Charles proxy is great for SSL debugging, but its commercial, but there is free trial though15:37
Avengencemgedmin: doesn't work if the server doesn't allow plaintext IMAP15:38
mgedminhm, so the N9 won't even send the password then?15:38
gabriel9what do you think is there any way for new phone like n9?15:38
mgedminset up a fake netcat server15:38
mgedminmore seriously, though, I don't know where the N9 stores its passwords15:39
mgedminI wouldn't be surprised to learn they're in encrypted aegisfs storage or something15:39
nid0obvious question though, can't you just change the account's password?15:39
Avengencejonni: I have used some SSL proxies that are free for sniffing web traffic and assume same works for other SSL/TLS connections15:39
Avengencemgedmin: if it doesn't get a connetion, then it won't just blindly send login data. it won't even try to send password until after getting a response to sending user name (in accordance with IMAP protocol)15:40
jonniAvengence: yeah there are free solutions available also, I've just used charlie abit and find it handy, you can always use tcpdump inside N9 too :)15:40
Avengencenid0: nope, don't have any access to most stuff since I have no access to my ssh keys until I get home and pull out a backup disk (which has the stored passwords anyway)15:41
AvengenceI found info on getting passwords from N900 but that does not apply to N9/N95015:42
SazpaimonAvengence, ask around15:42
Sazpaimonput up a WTB ad somewhere15:42
Avengencei did at least find how to extact the wifi password, but it requires some work since gconf spits it out in decimal instead of hex15:43
Sazpaimonyou will be getting it second hand, which is illegal15:43
Sazpaimonand you'll essentially be recieving stolen property15:43
AvengenceSazpaimon: i'll wait until nokia figures out there's market demand for a real keyboard. now that I have the N9, I can't justify spending that much just to get a keyboard15:43
Avengencei was hoping they got a clue and were taking orders for the 95015:44
jonniuse bt keyboard :)15:44
Sazpaimonyou can spend less money and build your own case with a builtin usb keyboard15:44
Sazpaimonor bluetooth15:44
deramjonni: does that work already? tried with one before, and it got paired, but nothing happened15:44
Avengenceyeah, I was about to say, I want it attached so I can hold it as one unit to use while moving15:45
Sazpaimonlearn how to mold plastic and have a blst15:45
mgedminoh I hate being unable to ping my n9 despite it showing up as online & connected15:45
jonnideram: worked for me atleast, and I posted the patch for enabling fullscreen terminal on forums when using bt hidd connection15:45
deramjonni: ok, I'll check that post and try again then..15:46
djszapiAvengence: you always have the open mode for that btw :)15:46
Avengencethis probably sounds dumb, but how do I ask the N9 what it's current IP is? I had to use nmap to find it, and it took a couple runs of that to realize that ping is not honoured so had to toss another flag to nmap to just look for ssh without icmp response15:46
Avengenceifconfig doen't seem to exist.. feels like solaris15:47
Aardip  addr sh15:47
jonniAvengence:   there is widget for that15:47
jonniAvengence: if you dont want to use console :)15:47
Aardthough I do have ifconfig on my n9, probably comes with some update15:48
djszapiAvengence: /sbin/ifconfig ?15:48
jonniand yes there is ifconfig under sbin too15:48
Avengenceahh, yes, it's in /sbin. thanks djszapi15:49
Avengencei was expecting /sbin, /usr/sbin etc to be in path at least as root if not always15:50
PiruI wrote an app that updates my .mobi domain at ifup by using website ;-)15:50
mgedminAvengence, 'ip a' just works15:50
Avengenceguess i'll have to fix the paths up15:50
mgedmin/sbin is in $PATH when you do devel-su -15:50
djszapiAvengence: on the device, it is not15:50
mgedminwith the -15:50
Piruso I can always ssh into my n9 easily15:50
* mgedmin hates su, misses sudo15:50
djszapiAvengence: with that shell by default.15:50
mgedminthe N9 responds to pings, but only after a while15:50
mgedminsometimes it's a long while15:50
djszapiAvengence: it should work properly over ssh though.15:50
AvengenceI'm more a BSD guy than linux user, so I have to learn all the quirks15:50
Avengencei tried devel-su though not with the -15:51
Piruyou don't been to su for ifconfig15:51
Pirujust give the full path15:51
mgedminI never do the - either...15:51
mgedmin'ip a' is shorter to type anyway15:51
AvengenceI guess its really su and not sudo. Maybe need to port that15:51
mgedminwould aegis let you?15:51
djszapiyou cannot port the traditional "sudo" :)15:52
mgedminso, I ssh into my n9 (eventually, grr those ARP troubles) so I can look for wifi passwords for Avengence15:52
djszapiunless either with custom kernel, or opensh15:52
mgedminand realize I've no idea where to look15:52
Avengencemgedmin: i know where to get wifi password. its email password I'm looking for15:52
PiruI just ssh in as root... screw devel-su ;)15:53
djszapithe problem is that the db in the aegisfs is tied to the application id of the creator.15:53
Avengenceeasiest might be to just spoof dns to point to a imapd on the laptop, turn off ssl/tls on the n9 and log the attempt15:53
mgedminAvengence, idea: MyDocs/.backups/Backup0/settings.zip15:53
mgedminI see an accounts.db.bak there15:53
mgedminit's an sqlite DB... no sign of passwords, though15:54
AvengenceI found the accounts.db file and took a peek but didn't see the passwords, so they are obfuscated if present. I didn't use sqlite to view it, just vi and a quick scan through (as I do know at least the gmail password)15:54
*** hardaker has joined #harmattan15:55
djszapiAvengence: that is why I said you cannot encrypt it since you did not create that15:55
mgedminAvengence, /home/user/.signon/backup/signon.db15:56
mgedmindon't see passwords yet...15:56
mgedminbut the word 'password' does appear in there15:56
AvengenceI wish I was learning about N9 in a more structured way, rather than crashcourse because the laptop died while I'm in a foreign country for at least a few more weeks15:57
mgedminthere's a 'signonfs' in my backup zip, that looks like a LUKS-encrypted filesystem image?15:58
mgedminmy gut feeling is that the passwords are there15:58
mgedminI think it's mounted on /home/user/.signon/private15:59
djszapiLUKS is a history15:59
djszapithat was the idea, we do not use it anymore.15:59
mgedminfuse.aegisfs doesn't sound very LUKS-like15:59
djszapiassume y ou are using PR1.1 or higher15:59
djszapi/home/user/.signon/signon.db but that does not contain secret data15:59
djszapithe db is under it's under /home/user/.signon/private16:00
mgedminbut in the backup zip files you can't make use of fancy OS-provided services, it's just bits16:00
djszapiaegisfs is the new way, not LUKS16:00
djszapiand aegisfs is based on the upstream fusefs user space file system16:00
Avengenceso under private, but aegis will not let me read from there16:00
djszapiofc not16:00
djszapiunless you hack the right application creating it with the same application id requested in the manifest file =)16:01
mgedminI don't suppose you can strace the email checking app and get it that way?16:01
Avengenceshort of replacing aegis with something more permissive, easier to just use ssl proxy or trap it via dns spoofing16:01
* mgedmin goes into Accounts and sees that his Facebook account is just! gone! poof! like it was never there! what the fuck, harmattan?16:02
djszapiI believe the only way would be to make an app with the same aegis configuration as the email client and do a trace in it, do a signon session with method "password" and you should get it out, I believe email signon identities are stored to use the "password" method16:02
Avengenceimportant thing is I can get mail on my N9 again so I have access to all my email albeit in limited fashion16:03
djszapiby default reading stored passwords should be impossible, in case of email, using dbus monitor might reveal it (unless email has encryption token defined)16:03
Avengenceso now I can put some time into getting stuff installed on this alternate laptop and then see about rescuing the disk from the other laptop. it make some bad clicking sounds and then everything just froze, so I don't want to spin up that disk until I'm ready to go at it with ddrescue16:04
*** JackaLX has quit IRC16:04
X-FadeAvengence: Can't you just reset the password? Most of the time that is a lot easier?16:05
AvengenceX-Fade: if I had access to my ssh keys to get to the server I could do that, but those are trapped same as the storred password on the laptop that went dead a couple days ago16:05
X-FadeAvengence: And nobody else has access?16:06
Avengencenope, I'm the only admin of my personal mail server16:06
X-FadeAvengence: So, you locked the door and threw away the keys? :)16:07
mgedmincould be worse: imagine if it was the hard drive on the _server_ that broke down16:07
mgedminhow many kilometers away are you?16:07
Avengenceof course, I have a backup disk that i was using, but the laptop ceased to be able to 'see' it when I last tried so I didn't bring it on this trip16:08
mgedmin"oh, the backups broke down; no rush, I'll just fix them whenever -- surely nothing bad is going to happen to my primary disk during _this_ trip"16:08
Avengencethe server is in france, home (with backup disks) is in czech republic, currently sitting in croatia16:08
Avengenceoh, the backups aren't working, I have only a day before I have to leave the country to wait out a visa process that takes a few months... and there's still unfilled paperwork but I can't legally stay in EU so someone has to file the last bits for me, and I still need to get the airline to confirm transport of my cat...16:10
Avengenceso, I may have lost all the pictures I took here but most of the rest should be ok when I get back16:11
mgedminMurphy is strong16:11
djszapiAvengence: btw, SSL proxy will not help anyway. best option to get passwds is to take backup, restore it to pr1.0 device, preferably with rd certificates, so that root can read mounted loopback files, and then you can copy signon database and check stored password16:11
* mgedmin looks at his recently dead laptop PSU sadly16:11
djszapiAvengence: I could probably help with the R&D certificate part.16:11
djszapibut then I will know your stuff :D16:11
*** heymaster has quit IRC16:12
Avengencewhy wouldn't ssl proxy work? If it just pretends to be the server and undoes/redoes the ssl wrapping it should be able to sniff the password16:12
Avengencethe R&D certs trick doesn't work in 1.1?16:13
mgedminstill, how about the backup zip as an attack vector?16:14
mgedminit has the passwords in it (encrypted), hasn't it?16:14
*** hhartz has quit IRC16:14
mgedmindo you need a secret key embedded in the N9 hardware to decrypt it or what?16:15
Avengenceif the backup file is encrypted with a key that is copied out, then its possible to use worm to read the whole backup from infected pc16:20
Avengenceon the other hand, it's impossible to restore to new hardware unless any decryption keys are in the backup16:21
thpis there any prebuilt component for doing the "overscroll to show search bar" thingie in a QML ListView (e.g. like in the messages or music apps)?16:21
djszapi"there is no decryption key on the device"16:21
djszapithp: I do not think so, but it is not hard to make it work ;-)16:22
fralsthp: pretty sure there isnt16:23
thpdjszapi: is there example code somewhere, so I don't have to experiment with the flickable properties myself?16:23
djszapithp: imho, you can hide it in the beginning, and then reveal for flickering, that is all16:24
Avengenceso then the backup could be attacked, but still sounds easier to use proxy. not sure why that wouldn't work. the server cert already does not match hostname and N9 is ok with that16:25
*** rm_work has joined #harmattan16:25
*** rm_work has joined #harmattan16:25
djszapihow could it be attacked ?16:25
djszapifor an external ?16:25
Avengenceif theres no encryption key stored solely on the device, meaning the backup can be restored onto another device (sensible use case), then copy backup off and go at it on laptop16:27
djszapibut you cannot encrypt that16:27
djszapijust the process which created it.16:27
djszapiThat is the whole point as far as I understand.16:27
djszapithat is what the application ID is used for over there.16:28
Avengencekey recovery using patrial known plaintext16:28
fluxbtw, is there a tool that would a) automatically activate the backup mechanism and b) copy the backups off the device?16:28
Avengencewhen the backup is copied off, there is nothing to stop me from looking at all the bits. would help to know algorithm used and whatnot16:29
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan16:32
*** JackaLX has quit IRC16:32
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan16:32
Avengenceargh, I hate freenode. "WHOIS This command could not be completed because it has been used recently, and is rate-limited." funny, first time i ussues that since connecting. i guess the rate limit is 016:33
*** JackaLX has quit IRC16:33
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan16:33
fluxavengence, your irc client could be issuing WHOIS behind your back :)16:33
Avengencemaybe... i did just install it yesterday and did almost no configuration, but if it was i should see a mess of those rate limit messages from the server for all the times it issues a whois on its own16:34
fluxfor example irssi knows some rate limit parameters of the servers and knows to avoid them16:35
fluxalthoguh it sounds a bit stupid if an irc client would do all that, but then not limit user-requested WHOIS16:35
Avengencei'm using Konversation, which I hadn't tried before but figured I'd give it a go on this system since xchat bugs were really bothering me on the other laptop16:36
*** pinheiro__ has joined #harmattan16:39
*** Stecchino_ has joined #harmattan16:39
*** abinader has quit IRC16:40
*** Stecchino has quit IRC16:40
*** pinheiro_ has quit IRC16:40
*** splyysh has quit IRC16:40
*** smokex|away has quit IRC16:40
*** abinader has joined #harmattan16:40
*** smokex|away has joined #harmattan16:40
*** hardaker has quit IRC16:40
*** jbos has joined #harmattan16:40
*** jbos_ has quit IRC16:40
*** bindi has quit IRC16:40
*** splyysh has joined #harmattan16:41
*** bindi has joined #harmattan16:41
*** hardaker has joined #harmattan16:45
*** befr0d has joined #harmattan16:45
*** lamikr has quit IRC16:58
*** ieatlint has quit IRC17:07
*** ZogG_N9 has joined #harmattan17:10
*** kulve has joined #harmattan17:11
*** mece has joined #harmattan17:16
*** ieatlint has joined #harmattan17:17
kulvewhat's the correct location for control panel desktop-files? /usr/lib/duicontrolpanel or /usr/share/duicontrolpanel/desktops?17:20
*** rcg1 has quit IRC17:24
kulveI guess the /usr/lib/duicontrolpanel even though the docs seem to say the latter17:28
kulveI'm trying to get a settings applet visible using the but my desktop entry isn't shown there17:28
kulveargh, nm. I missed one crucial line from the desktop file..17:32
*** rcg1 has joined #harmattan17:34
kevin_b'lo guys17:35
kulvethis indicates the wrong directory still:
kevin_bI'd like to unlock device with a custom gesture17:35
kevin_bAny app doing that?17:36
X-FadePick a word and use swype?17:36
X-FadeThat'll make for a complicated gesture :)17:37
kevin_bso you mean this is natively supported? I can unlock with a swype?17:37
X-Fadenotice y not i.17:37
X-FadeSwype is the input method.17:38
X-FadeBut that is just to enter a password. If you mean something like the android unlock, then I haven't seen it yet.17:39
kevin_bAlmost what I need17:39
kevin_byea I didnt notive I can swype keyboard on unllocking screen17:40
kevin_bthanks for that17:40
kevin_bwould make it complicated though lol17:40
X-Fadewell, just learn swipe some very long word :)17:40
kulveis the "DirectUI's Declarative Settings Language" documented somewhere?17:40
X-FadeSee, now I do it too.. Learn swype :)17:40
kevin_bSo I need to teach swype :D?17:40
X-Fadekevin_b: just type a long word, hit the word, and it will ask you if it needs to save it.17:41
ZogG_laptopdamnit, i'm egzosted with that stupid camera17:42
ZogG_laptopthere is no way noone tried to use camera in qml17:43
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: ping17:43
X-FadeZogG_laptop: yes?17:44
kevin_bwhen I swype a large S on the swipe input method, it doesnt write the 's'17:44
kevin_bis that normal?17:44
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: what about Qr-code integration in site as download links (for now as simple links)17:45
*** djszapiN9 has joined #harmattan17:45
ZogG_laptopdjszapiN9: hey17:45
X-FadeZogG_laptop: Is already a todo in our issue tracker.17:45
kevin_bI needs swipe input method lessons :p17:45
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: and btw can you make testing/not-testing switch on site global?17:45
kevin_bwhere can we add words to the swipe dictionary17:46
X-FadeZogG_laptop: ?17:46
ZogG_laptopkevin_b: you just swype or swipe17:46
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: when i go to apps for review and i click on newest i get back to normal apps17:46
X-FadeZogG_laptop: Oh that, yes. Also still a todo.17:47
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: :*17:47
ZogG_laptopdjszapiN9: can you try something for me?17:47
ZogG_laptopieatlint: ping17:47
djszapiZogG_laptop: shout17:48
ZogG_laptopi think that was tricky that Nokia gave n950 and n9 to developers and than gave the same people wp =)17:48
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: sup17:48
djszapi(I am sitting on a unity3d presentation though)17:48
ZogG_laptopunity is a mistake, you need to optimize a lot of things for tablet before optimizing wm17:49
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: anyway, i'll paste some qml code, if you mind to try it17:49
kevin_bI discovered swipe I.M it 's great17:49
kevin_beveryday harmattan stuns me17:50
kevin_bBest user experience on a phone ever lived17:52
TSCHAKsince when did Nokia ship N9's to devs?17:52
ZogG_laptopTSCHAK: on qt dev meeting17:53
lucidoI'm using QSqlDatabase QSQLITE to store about 500 rows of 4 doubles on an N9 and it takes approximately 30 seconds to complete, how can I buffer queries or speed this up?17:54
*** Jonno has quit IRC17:54
*** mece has quit IRC17:55
Avengenceany change of installing extra codecs in such a way that the included video player will use them? i.e. quicktime stuff so that videos recorded on iphone and sent by email can be played on N9? they are .mov file and it tries to play but then says unsupported format. they work on the laptop with whatever mess of gstreamer codecs are installed17:56
AvengenceI was pleasantly surprised by how nicely the IM stuff integrates into the system just by installing libpurple, telepathy-haze and im-additions17:57
gabriel9just convert them17:59
jreznikAvengence: it should work just by installing missing plugins for gstreamer... just someone has to do it first :)18:00
*** gabriel9 has quit IRC18:05
Avengenceso if i or whoever compile the other gstreamer plugins and drop them in place it'll 'just work' like with the telepathy plugin. good to hear18:10
*** leinir has quit IRC18:12
*** leinir has joined #harmattan18:14
* jreznik is not sure it's going as easy as it sounds but I guess it should work, even the gstreamer plugin dir is on the list of allowed ones18:15
*** Iktwo has joined #harmattan18:18
*** oytunx has joined #harmattan18:20
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: - menu - camera - can you try?18:28
*** niqt has quit IRC18:34
ZogG_laptopM4rtinK: ping18:46
*** vladest has quit IRC18:49
*** tbf_ has quit IRC18:53
*** xTs has joined #harmattan19:06
lucidohow to handle operations that possible take several seconds, becasue the system says that my app stopped responding and if I want to quit it during long database access operations for example?19:07
*** NIN101 has joined #harmattan19:07
itsnotabigtrucklucido: do it in a separate thread, probably19:11
itsnotabigtruckkeep long running stuff off the gui thread19:11
*** heymaster has joined #harmattan19:11
*** ten0r has joined #harmattan19:12
ten0rid like to use strace on one of the system daemons. but it fails with EPERM, i guess because of aegis. is there any way around this?19:12
*** djszapiN9 has quit IRC19:15
*** stroughtonsmith has quit IRC19:15
M4rtinKZogG_laptop: ?19:34
*** ten0r has quit IRC19:44
*** Smtih has quit IRC19:44
*** vladest has joined #harmattan19:45
*** ten0r has joined #harmattan19:45
*** snowpong has quit IRC19:46
*** vladest has quit IRC19:50
*** vladest has joined #harmattan19:50
*** jreznik has quit IRC19:54
*** vladest has quit IRC20:05
*** vladest has joined #harmattan20:08
*** leinir has quit IRC20:19
*** rcg1 has quit IRC20:22
*** leinir has joined #harmattan20:22
*** leinir has joined #harmattan20:22
kulvehow can I get debug prints from meego applications (plugins) to somewhere?20:33
*** befr0d has quit IRC20:34
*** rcg1 has joined #harmattan20:42 on ces "some nokias have really nice cameras"20:45
npmhas anybody made proper use of the 12mp "nice camera" on the n950? (work-aroudn n9's 8mp limit)20:47
djszapilucido: respont something on another thread.20:47
ieatlintnpm: has it actually been confirmed by anyone that the n950s sent out in the community program (ie, the "dev kit" n950s) actually have the 12mp camera?20:48
ieatlinti was under the impession only the internal original ones did20:49
lucidodjszapi, what's the question?20:49
ieatlinthey djszapi20:49
djszapiieatlint: hello :)20:49
djszapilucido: it is an answer for your previous question. It seems my N9 did not work when I sent it.20:50
lucidoprobably, I don't see it here20:51
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan20:51
lucidodjszapi, wht was the answer?20:52
djszapilucido: Q: A:
djszapikulve: to stderr for instance20:54
djszapiieatlint: I dislike the metroui after getting this Lumia20:55
kulvedjszapi: and where should I see the print?20:55
djszapikulve: cli20:55
kulvein this case the share-ui is launched from the gallery application. I'm not sure if I can launch it20:55
ieatlintdjszapi: indeed... i'm trying to not be too biased since it's microsoft and it killed off a platform i love20:55
ieatlintbut i really do not like it20:56
kulveand if I launch the gallery application from the command line I didn't see qDebugs nor qCriticals20:56
Avengencelumia = gimped N920:56
Avengencegood hardware, crap OS20:56
djszapikulve: you can print to any log files, but you can also get qDebug work by enabling the qt debug things properly.20:56
ieatlinti got slightly less angry at it when i found out what happens when you hold down the back button20:56
kulvedjszapi: ok20:56
ieatlintthe lumia 900 will be disorienting... larger than the n9, but otherwise looks damn near identical again20:56
djszapiieatlint: I like Windows 7 for instance, but the metroui is creepy in /my/ opinion.20:56
ieatlintdjszapi: well, metro is win8, so enjoy :P20:57
ieatlintit's depressing that nokia's first LTE phone will be a windows phone20:57
djszapiI cannot run multiple applications simultaneously (no taskbar).20:57
djszapithe camera zoom in/out are also creepy, icons are squared rectangles, and so on. cannot swipe between screen, just home or back20:58
ieatlintdjszapi: for "multitasking", hold down the back button20:58
djszapiorientation does not follow the turning of the device in my hand properly, just in 10%, I need to register a Windows Live ID for almost everything, there is no KDE on that, no Qt, and not even C++, the VKB is awful.20:58
Avengencethe underlying OS is wince so c/c++, but unless you hack it you can't write native, just silverblight and whatever the fuck the gimped xbox sdk is called21:00
ieatlintyeah, many of the built in apps are c++21:00
djszapiwell, I have access to the native SDK in my company, but cannot really publish what I write.21:01
ieatlintMS keeps excitedly telling me tha IE on the phone is from the same code branch as the desktop one21:01
djszapiieatlint: when I saw IE, well I started crying :)21:01
ieatlint"that's great, but seeing as i couldn't do that if i wanted to, it means dick to me"21:01
djszapieven here, the demon ?! :)21:01
Avengencei did winmob devel (5.x) for a few years for us govt and to really do anything useful required making custom sdk by shoving a bunch of the wince files into the winmob sdk21:01
djszapithe settings dialog is also a joke in a sense21:04
ieatlinta lot of nokians i've met seem to think qt will come to windows phone this year21:04
ieatlinti'll believe it when i see it21:04
djszapiwell, we need native SDK first.21:05
ieatlinti think MS has already said there will be some sort of native SDK for the next release, but they haven't detailed any restrictions or anything21:06
djszapiif that happens, the community can at least make a proper qt port.21:06
ieatlintsadly, the path forward for someone who wants to keep writing qt for phones is android21:07
djszapisaid it half a year ago :)21:07
djszapior the new Nokia feature phone in progress.21:08
*** vladest has quit IRC21:09
ieatlintthat sounds about as exciting as symbian belle21:09
ieatlintas i understand, meltemi will be qml only for apps21:09
djszapibtw, from today (Qt5 && Harmattan):
djszapiieatlint: ...and what is wrong about qml2 ? :)21:10
RST38hieatlint: Who said it will be QML at all?21:10
ieatlintdjszapi: it doesn't exist :P21:11
ieatlintplus, it doesn't solve the reasons we need to use c++ backends with harmattan for instance21:11
ieatlintif they have more components, it could be possible, but even then...21:11
djszapiI am pretty sure it is gonna be immature as usual ;-)21:12
ieatlintperhaps it'll allow you to create compiles imports you can use21:12
djszapibut at least the community can port Qt5 Harmattan21:12
ieatlintif there's a reasonable performance boost, sure21:13
djszapithat, and significant feature boost21:13
ieatlintbut v8 and scene graph are the only things i've seen that i find interesting21:14
*** xTs has quit IRC21:14
*** xTs has joined #harmattan21:14
ieatlintyeah, shaders and such in qml2...21:14
*** vladest has joined #harmattan21:14
djszapiplus many things from KDE.21:14
*** ZogG_N9 has quit IRC21:25
ieatlintheh, someone just pushed code to me for production that has the minor bug of disabling the touchscreen driver :P21:28
ZogG_laptopieatlint: djszapi M4rtinK can you try my deb to see what i mean by wierd camera behaviour?21:29
djszapiI cannot21:32
ieatlintah, already have 0.0.3 installed ;)21:32
ZogG_laptopieatlint: it;s 0,0,4,321:33
ieatlintthis is?21:33
ZogG_laptop0.0.4,2 was last and in this i wanted to add camera21:33
ieatlintsays on the installer21:33
ZogG_laptopi didn't change version yet is it's not finshed21:34
ieatlintah, i see21:34
ieatlinti have the app open and in camera mode21:34
ieatlintit is indeed the wrong orientation21:34
ieatlinthow are you using the camera module?21:34
ZogG_laptopieatlint: landscape is ok though21:35
ZogG_laptopieatlint: reported bug21:36
ieatlinti thought there was a way to have the native camera app launch, take a picture, and then send the path of that pic to your app so you could use it21:36
ZogG_laptopjust wanted to be sure21:36
ieatlintthat way you get full featues of the camera app without reinventing the wheel/changing the familiar ui21:37
ZogG_laptopmeh it would be lame21:37
ZogG_laptopopening app takes time and you can set the setting of minimul quality reuest21:37
ieatlintcan or can't?21:38
ZogG_laptopieatlint: actually i used buildin component of qml in qtmediakit21:38
ZogG_laptopieatlint: in app you can as you have a lot of settings and you control you21:39
ZogG_laptoplast you = ui21:39
ieatlintwell, assume you have to work around the bug21:39
jonniZogG_laptop: did you already tried the rotation: 90 thingie that I pasted yesterday to you?21:39
ieatlintbecause even if they try to fix it, i wouldn't count on it making pr1.221:39
ieatlintand pr1.3 i think is still a maybe with an unknown future date21:39
djszapiand unknown feature list21:40
djszapi(or bugfix list)21:40
ZogG_laptopwontfix bug list21:40
djszapi(if there is PR1.3 at all)21:40
ZogG_laptopjonni: i tryed but it has no such componenet21:41
jonniZogG_laptop: hmm, rectancle ? :)21:41
ieatlinti'm just hoping pr1.2 hits soon21:41
lucidoI really wish they'd come up with harmattan 1-2 years ago21:41
ieatlintthey did, and it was called maemo21:42
ieatlintand the n900 was released 2+ years ago21:42
ieatlintand it was awesome21:42
jonniZogG_laptop: afaik rectancle has rotation :)21:42
*** daniel_o has joined #harmattan21:43
djszapiItem has it.21:43
djszapiand Rectangle inherits that21:44
ieatlintthe n900's camera still gives the n9 a decent challenge21:44
ieatlintespecially with the low level control... the hdr app is still awesome21:44
*** zarlino has quit IRC21:44
djszapiieatlint: ...and the Lumia camera management... ;-)21:44
djszapi(on software side)21:45
ieatlintif the n950 had the 12mp camera module and low level access like the n900......21:45
*** etrunko has quit IRC21:45
djszapiN900 had 12 MP ?21:46
ieatlintno, 521:47
ieatlinti mean low level access like the n90021:47
djszapifor what ?21:47
ieatlintyou could get the raw image off the ccd21:48
ieatlintand nokia research used a group of university students to make an awesome hdr app for it21:48
djszapiwhat did that app do ?21:49
*** tbf_ has joined #harmattan21:49
ieatlinttook X photos at different exposures/shutter speeds in rapid succession, then merged them together so you had incredible colour and depth21:49
*** hhartz has joined #harmattan21:52
djszapiwell, the community can do whatever they want out of Harmattan after a while soon when there are no official maintenance releases anymore ;-)21:53
ieatlintwish i had the time to do anything in that regard21:54
djszapiwell, as for Nokia proper, there is no need for such an access anyway since they goddevelopers ;-)21:55
djszapiI think there might be some post-Harmatan community doing releases. It is not that bad hardware after all.21:58
ieatlinti still wish the nfc stuff was finished, and SNEP (a p2p protocol) is added21:58
ieatlintam hoping that will appear in pr1.221:58
ieatlinti'm led to believe that one can implement parts of the missing nfc support via direct dbus calls, but again, no time these days :(21:59
*** zarlino has joined #harmattan22:00
djszapiieatlint: seems Quim has Qt5 running on N950:
ieatlintyep, donald carr got it working22:03
ieatlinti worked with him briefly on the raspberry pi stuff22:04
djszapiit would be nice if they can send those out.22:05
*** vladest has quit IRC22:05
*** vladest has joined #harmattan22:05
ieatlintshould be very soon, although i know nothing extra22:05
djszapiI guess it is gonna work by FOSDEM.22:05
ieatlintok, me food, bbl22:05
admiral0djszapi: you work for nokia?22:08
*** SqRt7744 has joined #harmattan22:09
djszapiHi. nope, but for the Nokia project. :)22:09
oytunxdjszapi: hope not get involved for aegis project22:11
djszapiI have been one of the developers behind it..22:12
oytunxnice job!22:13
*** wirwe has joined #harmattan22:15
admiral0i just got my "made in finland" N9 and i'm missing some things22:16
admiral0like an IRC cllient22:16
infobotadmiral0 meant: like an IRC client22:17
admiral0and also saw my bug closed as WONTFIX :(22:17
djszapiadmiral0: irc-chatter I use.22:18
admiral0thank you djszapi22:20
*** diggy has quit IRC22:20
admiral0what do you think about this?
_MeeGoBot_Bug 584 enh, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO WONTFIX, Add API to add custom pages to meegotouchhome22:21
wirweadmiral0: irssi is available in the store, if you like simplicity.22:25
admiral0i stopped using irssi, was bad for my mental health22:25
djszapiirssi is everything but simple on handsets.22:26
djszapi(in /my/ opinion)22:26
admiral0and irc chatter stuck on connecting forever -.-22:28
wirweit is okay if one doesn't want to be online all the time^^22:28
djszapiadmiral0: do you have the network working properly ?22:29
djszapimobile internet ?22:29
admiral0downloaded deb on the device22:29
admiral0no, home wifi22:29
admiral0device froze :O22:30
djszapitry to reboot.22:30
petteriadmiral0: if you jus got your N9 and it is not running PR1.1, try updating it22:32
djszapiadmiral0: your FR is not that bad, but it would make the whole thing cluttered.22:32
djszapiI personally like the simplicity.22:32
admiral0cluttered if user is dumb22:33
admiral0the frustrating fact is that even android users can customise that with a simple application22:34
*** vladest has quit IRC22:34
admiral0and i consider meego-nokia more dev-friendly than that22:35
djszapiYou asked my opinion, but I like it this simple =)22:35
admiral0yes, i understand, i like it too22:36
admiral0but i want it even better22:36
admiral0most n900 interesting stuff was either a widget or a status area plugin22:37
admiral0this would make happy a lot of ex n900 users22:37
admiral0(still connecting forever)22:37
admiral0is broken?22:41
*** rcg1 has quit IRC22:45
*** tbf_ has quit IRC22:45
djszapiseems so.22:46
*** zk8 has joined #harmattan22:46
*** fuz_ has quit IRC22:47
djszapiI have just written an email to javispedro.22:48
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan22:50
*** fuz_ has joined #harmattan22:52
admiral0man  need to emerge php for it :(22:54
amppaok, this is just stupid22:54
amppaall N9 devices in RDA have PR1.122:55
*** jpnurmi has left #harmattan22:56
djszapiamppa: I can help tomorrow with PR1.022:57
amppathat would be very nice22:58
*** diggy has joined #harmattan23:02
*** lizardo has quit IRC23:02
*** tbf_ has joined #harmattan23:10
*** oytunx has quit IRC23:11
e-yesbtw, if meego-nokia is "more friendly"...23:14
e-yes why they still publish kernel source code as dumb snapshot (instead of pushing it to external git repo) ?23:14
djszapiwhat would be the benefit to change the whole procedure how it has been working for a while ?23:16
djszapithere are no manpower for such a change anyway.23:16
e-yesto make it really more23:16
e-yesmore dev-friendly23:17
djszapiwitout manpower ?23:17
djszapiand I wish this was the most serious problem ever, really ;-)23:17
e-yesmanpower? are you kidding? (git push externalremotename megadevelopment_branch -- is it really hard??)23:19
ieatlinti also fail to see exactly what that would do23:19
*** e-yes has left #harmattan23:20
ieatlintif you want it in git, put it in git23:20
*** e-yes has joined #harmattan23:20
e-yesmerging, back/forward porting, history/logs23:20
djszapie-yes: and refactor the whole continous integration, static analyzers, all the build servers, all the test servers23:21
ieatlintyeah, that was never going to happen23:21
djszapido not kid, it is a whole process, not about a git push.23:21
djszapitry to think in systems23:21
ieatlintthat would include internal info as well23:21
e-yesheh. why this happening with google?23:21
*** beford has joined #harmattan23:21
e-yes(and a lot of companies in the world)23:22
e-yeseven nokia itself uses gitorious for qt development23:22
ieatlintyou mean google's reference kernel?23:22
e-yesi mean google reference kernel (aka common), emulator (goldfish) and device specific branches (tuna, maguro)23:23
djszapie-yes: no it does not23:23
djszapiactually even qt4 was ported to gerrit today23:23
ieatlintconsidering the other openness issues in harmattan, methinks you're picking an add one to make an issue of23:23
djszapiand qt5 has already been on gerrit for a quite while.23:24
e-yeswell gerrit != git23:24
djszapinot sure how you confuse that in here.23:24
djszapiyou said, Nokia uses gitorious for qt, no it does not23:24
e-yesdon't mess vcs and codereview system. and CI too;)23:24
djszapianyway, I do not see the point of this complain :)23:25
e-yesi suspect you don't waste time (right now) trying to merge/cherry-pick commits from 2.6.39 to nokia-provided-crapshot23:27
djszapiactually my opinion is opposite. Intel left the existing and working procedure at Nokia23:28
djszapiwhen we worked with Intel on MeeGo. They always wanted to reinvent the wheel on "open" sites for no real reasons.23:28
djszapithat is one reason behind the big meego fail.23:28
ieatlintand why tizen will succeed23:29
djszapithat is a valid question ;-23:29
djszapibut Intel reinvented the wheel over there in many aspects as well :)23:30
e-yeswhat relation does Intel have to kernel snapshot for Nokia N9?23:30
djszapiIntel wanted the same like you23:30
djszapiand they hilariously failed.23:30
djszapiNokia did not want, and Nokia is still alive.23:30
e-yesMurtazin says it's not23:32
* e-yes switched on trolling mode too23:32
ieatlintuh, wait, how is inel dead and nokia alive?23:32
ieatlintthey both are off meego..23:33
djszapimeego was done at the end by Intel right ?23:33
djszapiHarmattan was done by Nokia, right ?23:33
djszapimeego is dead, Harmattan is still alive to a sort.23:33
e-yesдоктор сказал в морг. хуле23:33
*** vladest has joined #harmattan23:33
ieatlintit's been sundowned since release23:33
ieatlintcanceled, and the teams gutted, but not 100% dead23:34
djszapiI do not see any point in refactoring a whole, more years old and working process23:34
djszapijust for the sake of changing, and with all its risks to even make a sillier result than it is now.23:34
djszapiHarmattan was not cancelled as far as I know23:35
djszapiMeeGo was.23:35
ieatlintok, not cancelled, just gutted of developers23:35
djszapithis is pointless, it is still developed23:36
djszapiwhat I wanted to show is the Intel way got dead, and this was exactly the way asked abo ve.23:36
djszapi(a.k.a. change everything radically for the sake of fail)23:37
djszapisadly, Intel has been doing the same game with Tizen, today debian, but future rpm, and so on..23:38
ieatlintsounds like there should be committee setup to discuss this23:39
* mgedmin grins23:39
djszapiback to the cherry pick things, it is probably not a real problem actually23:44
djszapisince the common changes were more or less upstreamed, and just the really specific additions not. So if there is even a conflicting situation, it should not be that hard to resolve imo.23:44
*** briglia has quit IRC23:44
*** daniel_o has quit IRC23:46
e-yesupstreamed. something already in mainline kernel, something not yet, something rejected. something was not submitted23:51
djszapithe common things are more or less upstreamed.23:52
djszapiand there are not many things like that after all23:52
*** Venemo has joined #harmattan23:52
*** Venemo has joined #harmattan23:52
e-yesdjszapi, cap23:52
djszapievening Venemo :)23:52
Venemohey djszapi :)23:52
djszapiVenemo: admiral0 has some issues with irc-chatter23:53
Venemoadmiral0, hi! :) could you please join #irc-chatter and tell me more about your issues?23:53
Venemooh, by the way23:54
* Venemo has fallen to the dark side.23:54
*** gabriel9 has quit IRC23:55
ieatlintswitched to android?23:55
Venemonope, worse23:56
ieatlintor do i need to just start laughing at you for using the lumia 800?23:56
Venemoyeah... :P23:56
* ieatlint points and laughs23:56
Venemothanks :P23:56
Venemoalso, not just using it, developing for it as well.23:57
ieatlintnokia will be pleased to know that they actually got a convert23:58
djszapiVenemo: we are not friends anymore, you know ? ;)23:58
VenemoI'm not fully converted...23:58
*** admiral0_n9 has joined #harmattan23:58
VenemoI'm also developing for Harmattan still :)23:58
djszapiport C# to Harmy ? :P23:58
djszapior the metroui ? ;)23:59
Venemowhat'd be the point of doin that?23:59
*** SqRt7744 has quit IRC23:59
djszapiwell, C# is not that bad, I would like to get it ported, for instance mono23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!