IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2011-12-09

Richlv	DocScrutinizer, hmm, haven't had problems with using various other usb devices, though. will try some different ports, just in case. cable is the n9 original one	00:00
jonni	so guess charge to 100% and then hope for the best	00:00
Richlv	it doesn't turn on now (just shos the nokia logo every now and then) - does it charge in that state ?	00:01
DocScrutinizer	also blacklisting ehci_hcd (or was it ohci_hcd) might help	00:01
Richlv	DocScrutinizer, ha. i blacklisted phonet & cdc_phonet, but didn't try that yet - thanks for another idea	00:01
DocScrutinizer	basically forcing the USB to 1.1	00:01
Richlv	maybe making it usb1 only will succeed at slower speeds...	00:01
jonni	if there is that small led showing then its charging	00:01
Richlv	yep	00:01
Richlv	ok, that's at least some leads there :)	00:01
Richlv	no, different usb ports don't help	00:02
djszapi	Richlv: you are trying on windows ?	00:03
Richlv	no, opensuse 11.4	00:03
djszapi	try windows	00:03
Richlv	don't have them :)	00:03
djszapi	some people were not able to do these things on Linux, just Windows. Anyway, you have phonet unloaded ?	00:04
Richlv	unloading was not enough, had to blacklist (it got loaded all the time)	00:05
Richlv	both phonet & cdc_phonet have been blacklisted	00:05
djszapi	unloading should be okay without reboot for a try	00:05
djszapi	but at any rate, I would go for windows	00:05
Richlv	it loaded those two whenever i would plug n9 in	00:06
Richlv	well, no windows for me since win2k :)	00:06
djszapi	not even among your family members or friends ?	00:06
Richlv	i'm abroad ;)	00:07
djszapi	or work, student colleagues and so on	00:07
djszapi	so you do not have friends abroad ? ;)	00:07
Richlv	heh, well, i'd like to get it going tonight, if possible	00:07
Richlv	will try to blacklist ehci_hcd now	00:07
djszapi	frankly, I would also just boot an archlinux usb iso	00:08
djszapi	for a try since that is as minimal as possible without the full desktop thingie	00:08
Richlv	although lsmod didn't show anything containing hci	00:08
djszapi	and archlinux has been working for ages here.	00:08
Richlv	ok, that's another idea on the list then :)	00:09
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Corsac	djszapi: by coworkers?	00:20
Corsac	ha no, by Jed	00:21
Corsac	tbh it's a bit noisy on this bug	00:21
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javispedro	ZogG_laptop: fmradio and bt might work when using a2dp	00:29
Richlv	huh. got in dmesg : usbfs: usb_submit_urb returned -121	00:31
Richlv	quick search turns up stuff like "It is a bug in libusb. It is caused by interaction with a kernel	00:31
Richlv	feature"	00:31
javispedro	EREMOTEIO	00:31
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javispedro	http://www.mjmwired.net/kernel/Documentation/usb/error-codes.txt#133	00:33
Richlv	yeah, "The data read from the endpoint did not fill the specified buffer, and URB_SHORT_NOT_OK was set in urb->transfer_flags."	00:33
Richlv	not sure whether it's directly connected, though	00:33
javispedro	it could be because of an old libusb bug too, though.	00:34
Richlv	http://www.libusb.org/ticket/56	00:34
Richlv	this one, i guess	00:34
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Richlv	"Changed 3 days ago" - huh	00:34
MohammadAG	To upgrade or not to upgrade	00:36
MohammadAG	Came with 22-6	00:36
javispedro	MohammadAG: ah, congratulations on your new paperweight^W N950!!	00:36
javispedro	so it did not explode I guess,	00:36
javispedro	dammit ;P	00:36
MohammadAG	No but the USB cable was outside the package	00:37
javispedro	lol	00:37
javispedro	look for government mandated windows trojans on ~/MyDocs	00:37
MohammadAG	CarrierIQ? :p	00:37
MohammadAG	I forgot how smooth this thing is tbh	00:38
MohammadAG	Way smoother than all iDevices	00:38
nibbler	MohammadAG: yeah, i like the finish. much friendlier feeling to the hand than the greasy iSurfaces.	00:39
javispedro	it's funny	00:39
MohammadAG	I'm talking about the UI	00:39
javispedro	I'm now realizing I have little fingerprint marks on the n950	00:39
javispedro	*few	00:39
javispedro	compared to the mess that is my touchpad's screen by now.	00:40
nibbler	oh. scusi. wearing my ID head right now :)	00:40
MohammadAG	SO should I upgrade?	00:40
nibbler	sure.	00:40
MohammadAG	Oh it supports OTA now	00:40
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MohammadAG	I remember having to reflash to change eMMC at some point though	00:41
javispedro	beta2 is nice	00:41
MohammadAG	Ah aegis, I missed you	00:41
javispedro	the problem is pr1.1	00:41
MohammadAG	Why?	00:41
javispedro	no open mode so far	00:41
MohammadAG	Is beta2 still somewhere?	00:42
MohammadAG	Hmm, what's 2.2011.39-5	00:42
javispedro	seemingly not, I get 404	00:42
javispedro	pr1.1 iirc	00:42
MohammadAG	Wait	00:43
MohammadAG	Beta2 is the one that needed hacks for open mode roght?	00:43
MohammadAG	The one that removed developer edition	00:43
javispedro	I don't remember when the developer edition branding disappeared, if that's what you asking..	00:44
javispedro	I think beta2	00:44
arcean_	MohammadAG: beta 2 is available on DocScrutinizer server: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/myimages/	00:44
MohammadAG	Well I think I still have beta2 on my hdd	00:44
javispedro	hah, Doc to the rescue!	00:44
javispedro	ooooooooooh	00:45
javispedro	http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/	00:45
arcean_	wow	00:45
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: got it?	00:45
MohammadAG	Yeah	00:46
MohammadAG	Beta2 is 34-2 right?	00:46
javispedro	yep	00:46
MohammadAG	K time to update then	00:47
ZogG_laptop	js that used for aml is javascript right?	00:48
javispedro	qml?	00:49
ZogG_laptop	yeap	00:50
MohammadAG	Goodbye iTunes, hello N950	00:50
javispedro	yep	00:50
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ZogG_laptop	than why the f i get error on working script from some example!!!!	00:51
MohammadAG	Remind me if the N950 checks battery level ob flashing	00:53
ZogG_laptop	if it does it does it for reason	00:53
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ZogG_laptop	gabriel9: sup my man	00:54
MohammadAG	Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin correct?	00:54
gabriel9	hai	00:54
gabriel9	i write drom N9	00:55
javispedro	MohammadAG: yes, it does checkbattery, and yes, that is beta2.	00:55
MohammadAG	javispedro, remember what charge percentage it needs?	00:55
MohammadAG	think I'm on 20	00:55
ZogG_laptop	var fd = new FormData(); - what is wrong in that?	00:55
javispedro	MohammadAG: i'd let it charge, if something goes wrong you'd run it down quickly.	00:56
ZogG_laptop	it eould be funny if you need to resend it	00:56
MohammadAG	hello long charging times	00:56
javispedro	long charging times?	00:56
MohammadAG	the iPhone charges from 0 to 100 in an hour or less	00:56
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: n9 is 3000 in israel already i think 6gb	00:56
javispedro	uh?	00:56
MohammadAG	this shows estimated time 122 minutes	00:57
MohammadAG	from 22 to 100	00:57
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG depends on charger the nokias one charge fast	00:57
javispedro	never less than 2 hours thoug	00:57
ZogG_laptop	connect it with wires to uotlet =)	00:57
MohammadAG	this is the Nokia charger...	00:57
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ZogG_laptop	i have american charger with adapter to our outlets	00:58
ZogG_laptop	charge fast	00:58
javispedro	http://whenwillapple.com/blog/2010/07/08/charging-the-iphone-4-usb-vs-outlet/	00:58
javispedro	around 120 minutes too	00:58
javispedro	I find the one hour mark pretty much unbelievable	00:59
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javispedro	unless maybe the battery on the ipod has less capacity?	01:00
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MohammadAG	javispedro, iPhone	01:03
MohammadAG	I have an iPhone, iPod and iPad	01:03
* javispedro trembles		01:04
MohammadAG	the iPhone charges in 1 hour if I turn off 3G and Wifi	01:04
MohammadAG	and lock the screen	01:04
MohammadAG	and if I leave it overnight without being charged, with all those turned off, it goes from 100 to 99	01:04
MohammadAG	the battery life on these things is unbelievably long	01:04
MohammadAG	I removed the iPad off the charger today at 4	01:05
MohammadAG	now it's 1AM	01:05
MohammadAG	it's down to 95	01:05
MohammadAG	one question though	01:06
MohammadAG	both the iPhone and the N950 have smooth scrolling the web browser	01:06
MohammadAG	but in landscape mode, both of them have different acceleration in both sides	01:06
MohammadAG	the right sides accelerates faster than the left one	01:06
MohammadAG	so there's a wave effect	01:06
mgedmin	actual scrolling, or rendering tiles?	01:08
MohammadAG	scrolling	01:08
mgedmin	tearing maybe? I never noticed	01:08
MohammadAG	no	01:08
MohammadAG	mgedmin, got a facebook?	01:08
MohammadAG	it's very visible on m.facebook.com	01:09
MohammadAG	(again, in landscape mode)	01:09
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* mgedmin too lazy to look up his password		01:10
MohammadAG	Battery level 42 %, continuing.	01:12
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MohammadAG	how long does this take again?	01:24
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javispedro	around half an hour	01:25
javispedro	if, after having experienced iOS you suddenly feel the urge to throw any maemo device against the wall remember that my n950 has around 240 dead pixels and that I am looking for a replacement :)	01:26
javispedro	hypothetically speaking only, of course.	01:26
MohammadAG	the iPhone probably has 240 more pixels the N950's screen, I cans end you the pixels if you want	01:27
javispedro	IPS ? :)	01:28
MohammadAG	javispedro, ask for a replacement?	01:29
MohammadAG	Nokia does the replacement stuff quite quickly	01:29
* MohammadAG picks up iPhone, looks for whatsapp XMPP password in filesystem		01:29
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javispedro	It seemed like ... abuse ... back when it was 20px, but it's been growing :)	01:31
* javispedro fires up email		01:32
MohammadAG	flashing finished quickly	01:34
MohammadAG	much quicker than iPhone fw flashing	01:34
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you have some fun with my new subdir on cloud-7 ?	01:41
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: yes, hope you don't mind I download the iso :)	01:41
javispedro	I booted the kernel, and it works	01:41
javispedro	but the problem with aegisfs is way more visible now	01:41
DocScrutinizer	it's there for download :-D	01:41
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: great, first confirmation that this kernel at least _works_	01:42
javispedro	after reboot you are asked for all of your account passwords, if you fail any of them, the account is deleted =)	01:42
DocScrutinizer	haha	01:42
DocScrutinizer	joy of TC	01:42
DocScrutinizer	so this means aegisfs is not even readable in openmode now?	01:43
DocScrutinizer	dang, took them a while to get things sorted	01:43
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javispedro	didn't test it very hard, I rebooted inmediately to see the damage	01:43
javispedro	the accounts that were deleted are indeed gone	01:43
javispedro	but the rest seems normal	01:44
DocScrutinizer	thanks to $Nokia_the_reasonable_part_of_it for making all this happen	01:44
DocScrutinizer	I feel with you and your pain to maintain a borked concept of "security"	01:45
javispedro	:)	01:45
* javispedro nods		01:45
DocScrutinizer	and I appreciate all the reasonable effort from inside $Nokia to compensate the damage done	01:46
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DocScrutinizer	when N9 becomes a success story, it's your story, not "theirs"	01:47
DocScrutinizer	there's simply no "third party software that requires a safe execution environment." that would blow fruitphone out of the water. But there's a vivid hacker community that appreciates your make_it_happen regarding really cool stuff that will be noticed by "joe luser" as well	01:50
DocScrutinizer	e.g hostmode	01:50
DocScrutinizer	:-D	01:50
DocScrutinizer	"no uSD external slot? well, don't worry, just plug in a cardreader and start up H-E-N"	01:51
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MohammadAG	updated	01:53
MohammadAG	now, I forgot how to import my contacts	01:54
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MohammadAG	got used to iTunes and iCloud always doing it automatically	01:54
DocScrutinizer	the answer to the android desaster regarding malware apps is NOT an aegified OVI store. The answer is "hey luser! LISTEN! DO NOT install random shit from $random sources! Only use safe-app-installer to get new apps" --- done	01:54
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DocScrutinizer	~rape MohammadAG	01:55
* infobot takes MohammadAG behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams		01:55
MohammadAG	no seriously	01:56
MohammadAG	how do I import contacts :p	01:56
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: users don't listen	01:57
DocScrutinizer	burp	01:57
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DocScrutinizer	javispedro: so we don't listen to them	01:57
javispedro	MohammadAG: Nokia has Ovi Contacts	01:57
javispedro	MohammadAG: it's like iCloud, only they did it earlier :)	01:57
javispedro	then they closed it	01:57
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MohammadAG	iCloud has no match	01:57
MohammadAG	it's the most awesomest concept ever	01:57
DocScrutinizer	I Cry loud?	01:58
* MohammadAG hides		01:58
MohammadAG	no but really, the fact you can backup your device automatically + nightly and keep your contacts in sync with all your devices with one single ID is awesome	01:58
MohammadAG	Apple does Single Sign On well for its devices	01:58
javispedro	Palm called it synergy	01:58
MohammadAG	iMessage needs to be reversed	01:58
MohammadAG	quick	01:58
MohammadAG	before whatsapp iUsers' expire	01:59
* javispedro has to admit these cloud things work well, but would never trust the "backup" part.		01:59
MohammadAG	javispedro, restore always fails due to jailbreak :P	01:59
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: you can download contcs via bluetoth	01:59
DocScrutinizer	the question is: how do I survive Friday on a XP environment that doesn't allow any cool tools as they're not certified by company's security evaluation process	01:59
javispedro	MohammadAG: it's not unheard than one misaction happened to delete all of the contacts on the "cloud" plus all the backups, then proceeded to propagate the change amongst all devices =)	01:59
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: whatsapp is reversed	01:59
MohammadAG	javispedro, but the fact that I update my contact on my iPhone and pick up my iPad and find it updated is awesome	01:59
javispedro	MohammadAG: there's this for contacts on the N9 actually	02:00
ZogG_laptop	check the meego forum	02:00
MohammadAG	or when I take a photo on the iPhone, it appears on the iPad	02:00
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MohammadAG	or when I purchase/download an app, it downloads on all three devices	02:00
DocScrutinizer	AMAZING!!!	02:00
MohammadAG	all this is instant	02:00
DocScrutinizer	WOW	02:00
DocScrutinizer	XP	02:00
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, you have to admit, this isn't on any other device	02:01
* DocScrutinizer got a $home at some box with a fixed IP		02:01
javispedro	MohammadAG: on Palm it was called synergy =)	02:01
MohammadAG	it's very seamless	02:01
MohammadAG	javispedro, and Nokia?	02:01
MohammadAG	ovi notifications, you better be as good as iOS's push notifications	02:02
javispedro	no idea, but as I said, I was surprised to find my contacts were already on the device once	02:02
* DocScrutinizer yawns like a dog, utters some curses to make whole Redmond go to hell, and heads off to fridge to find some snack		02:02
javispedro	(so they must come from the ovi/nokia account)	02:02
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: install a virus!	02:02
DocScrutinizer	I'm not a crasher, I'm a hacker	02:03
DocScrutinizer	and STE starts to appreciate that	02:03
javispedro	STE is ?	02:03
DocScrutinizer	ST-E	02:03
javispedro	the one I know... ?	02:03
javispedro	woah	02:03
javispedro	ericsson I mean?	02:03
DocScrutinizer	access to all the sources	02:04
DocScrutinizer	:-D	02:04
DocScrutinizer	LTE	02:04
javispedro	woah, congratulations	02:04
DocScrutinizer	thanks	02:04
javispedro	and they force you to XP? :P	02:04
DocScrutinizer	let's see how long they tolerate a freal like me	02:05
DocScrutinizer	yep, they do	02:05
DocScrutinizer	ClearCase, SourceInsight, Eclipse, lots of proprietary stuff to wrap all that up	02:06
DocScrutinizer	FF forbidden	02:06
javispedro	Eclipse is not :)	02:06
DocScrutinizer	outlook mandatory	02:06
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: you got me wrong	02:06
javispedro	(unless you are using some of the IBM $CRAP, which you probably are -- seeing ClearCase)	02:06
DocScrutinizer	eclipse is wrapped up in ODE (c) ste, and that is integrated into CC, and around CC there's another proprietary wrapper	02:07
DocScrutinizer	and yes, there's an IBM thing around too	02:08
javispedro	unsurprising	02:09
DocScrutinizer	a real PITA to make your email work in a useful way, when you have to use outlook and that server thing from redmond I always forget the name	02:09
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DocScrutinizer	keeping threads in one folder is an unknown and almost unimplementable concept on outlook	02:10
DocScrutinizer	setting up filters is causing almost instant nausea	02:11
DocScrutinizer	you can move all sent mails to inbox folder, but you got no "mark as read" on rules for outbound X-P	02:12
DocScrutinizer	but I have to say I like their concept of building software stacks for their LTE stuff. Pretty good tutorials about everything, a clean nice architecture, everything like "dbus based"	02:15
DocScrutinizer	haven't seen a similarly good concept elsewhere so far	02:15
MohammadAG	then clearly you haven't seen iOS!	02:16
DocScrutinizer	hah	02:16
* MohammadAG runs far far away		02:16
MohammadAG	steve hated public transportation	02:17
javispedro	I think I will soon have to use protective goggles everytime MohammadAG talks about iOS	02:17
MohammadAG	there is no dbus equivalent	02:17
jabis	setting up a single vps for incoming mail was the smartest thing I ever did	02:17
DocScrutinizer	actually Apple has also good whitepapers and howto	02:17
javispedro	not to catch some virulent apple disease	02:17
MohammadAG	their docs are good	02:17
jabis	tho that would incline I'm stupid x)	02:17
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MohammadAG	and the number of iSheep means development can pay good	02:17
MohammadAG	I'm also surprised at some game copies on the app store	02:18
javispedro	jabis: doing that (vps and redirect all my mail to it) is on my todo list	02:18
mosty	is there a way to force a refresh of application icons? sometimes when i install or upgrade packages the icon is missing. after a while it fixes itself. "xdg-icon-resource forceupdate" doesn't appear to do anything	02:18
MohammadAG	angry chickens and cake ninja to name a few	02:18
javispedro	jabis: do you use anykind of OSS webmail server?	02:18
javispedro	MohammadAG: angry nerds is best	02:19
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: 70% of mobile devices worldwide are using the software stack I'm working on now (or one of the siblings/predecessors)	02:19
javispedro	MohammadAG: someone should really make a "Angry Nerds vs Evil iSheeps" game	02:19
MohammadAG	iOS?	02:19
* MohammadAG runs again		02:19
MohammadAG	javispedro, fuckin brilliant	02:19
javispedro	I'd love throwing Android users using a slingshots towards blue jean black jersey zealots	02:20
jabis	javispedro: I've got two vps instances - the other one to receive and filter - and the nother for actually housing it :)	02:20
javispedro	psst, too expensive for me :)	02:21
jabis	*housing the remaining - spam = 0%	02:21
jabis	every now and then I freak and have a looki at the spamfilter (90days of shiz) and usually there is nothing of interest	02:21
MohammadAG	KDE is way too slow at file processing	02:23
jabis	javispedro: I pay ~120e/year for the whole shebang - ~50 domains with email-relays via mysql & postfix	02:23
MohammadAG	oh and one more thing	02:24
MohammadAG	iOS is unix based right?	02:24
MohammadAG	unix has a mount concept	02:24
javispedro	jabis: where? (out of curiosity, still way too expensive)	02:24
MohammadAG	iOS can copy multiple items over USB at the same time	02:24
MohammadAG	but still, you can access the eMMC equivalent while copying the files	02:24
MohammadAG	so it's not MTP (simultaneous copying), and it's not mass storage	02:25
MohammadAG	wtf is it	02:25
jabis	javispedro: I find it really cheap (49euro/month for local hosting in finland)	02:25
jabis	javispedro: bluemilecloud dot something today - it was 5bean when I took the first backup boxes from them	02:25
DocScrutinizer	MohammadAG: OBEX	02:26
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, I fear it's a custom protocol	02:26
javispedro	MohammadAG: ??	02:26
javispedro	MohammadAG: you mean using iTunes and ONLY iTunes?	02:26
mosty	has anyone else had problems with application icons not being updated properly in harmattan?	02:26
MohammadAG	when you connect an iPhone	02:26
MohammadAG	you get the DCIM folder exported as a camera device	02:26
MohammadAG	similar to MTP	02:26
MohammadAG	but you can do multiple file-copying	02:27
javispedro	"similar"?	02:27
MohammadAG	something MTP can't do	02:27
javispedro	it can't?	02:27
jabis	mosty, sounds like an upgrade gone to shit for me	02:27
MohammadAG	no	02:27
MohammadAG	wasn't that a huge issue of the Nexus Prime?	02:27
MohammadAG	or Galaxy Nexus, or whatever it got called	02:27
jabis	mosty, you have developer mode on?	02:27
MohammadAG	but still, iTunes can handle music copying	02:28
MohammadAG	and the filesystem is live on iOS	02:28
mosty	jabis, yes i have developer mode on	02:28
MohammadAG	fyi the iPhone can show how much of the song has been copied over	02:28
jabis	javispedro: oh btw - depending on what you need, I could be of service :)	02:28
javispedro	the MTP protocol does support transfering multiple objects	02:29
MohammadAG	javispedro, at the same time?	02:29
javispedro	yep	02:29
MohammadAG	afaik it queues copying	02:29
javispedro	_the protocol_	02:29
javispedro	I don't know about any implementation tbh	02:29
mosty	jabis, it doesn't always happen, and i have checked that the correct icon is in place. i can't figure out what is wrong, nor how it eventually fixes itself	02:29
DocScrutinizer	meh, n8 folks	02:29
jabis	mosty, you haven't for example copied a fewhundred megabytes of stuff to MyDocs? :)	02:30
jabis	mosty, the indexing wizard is a freaky peace of software (imo) that could result in the momentarily loss of icons (indexed pieces of .ico/png)	02:31
mosty	jabis, not as part of the .deb package. i have a bunch of mp3s and stuff in there though	02:32
jabis	DocScrutinizer: howdy :)	02:32
DocScrutinizer	btw, feel free to spread the word about http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/	02:33
DocScrutinizer	on FMC, whatever	02:33
jabis	8 days without IRC and I feel like a relic x)	02:33
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jabis	which phone is that for?	02:34
jabis	950 stupid	02:34
mosty	jabis, do you know what the indexing wizard is called, or where i can find documentation on it?	02:34
jabis	mosty, afaik NOKIA closed source, so nowhere	02:35
mosty	jabis, i have seen similar issues on the meego tablet UX previously	02:36
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jabis	mosty, you can test it by cut-paste your mp3s out of the device, and then back - you can't play a song in the library before the indexing "wizard" has touched the file	02:37
mosty	jabis, i'll try that out	02:37
jabis	also a malformed png will break the rest of the icons as far as I've tested - until you reset the order	02:38
DocScrutinizer	jabis: EH??	02:40
mosty	the png appears to be valid, works everywhere i have checked it except in meego/harmattan ui's	02:40
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jabis	Doc, packed an image that was ~57% ready and it broke the rest of the images, and after 3 or so minutes rebooted my N9 - could replicate a few times	02:42
DocScrutinizer	jabis: sorry, I'm still with my topic	02:42
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jabis	DocScrutinizer: np x)	02:43
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DocScrutinizer	I just see stupid questions	02:44
jabis	Doc, you can't blame the people for stupid questions - you can only give stupid answers ^^	02:45
jabis	mosty: sorry - I'm beginning to get drunk, but what exactly breaks when you deploy the application?	02:47
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jabis	you just dont see the icon or?	02:48
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mosty	jabis, the application works fine. it's just that on some devices the icon appears as a red square in the application list (or isn't updated to the new icon if we installed a new one). and then at some later point the icon is fixed. sometimes a reboot fixes it, sometimes not. and on some devices the icon always appears as it should	02:49
DocScrutinizer	jabis: I can refuse to give any answer, and refrain from blaming anybody. After all it's your device that either uns open mode or secure mode, and if you don't care, why should I? just publicly attributing it "stupid" is pissing me off	02:49
DocScrutinizer	esp since it'S plain wrong	02:49
mosty	jabis, the red square seems to appear after the first install of the package, never when upgrading	02:50
mosty	but as i said, this doesn't happen on all devices, some work fine	02:50
DocScrutinizer	950 stupid? NAH, jabis stupid	02:50
jabis	Doc, I was just asking which platform was that on - and blamed myself stupid for not looking at the url x) dood - you're too deep into this - which IS why I love ya ^^	02:51
mosty	jabis, if i edit the .desktop file and specify a icon that doesn't exist, it shows a red square. so it seems there is some buggy icon caching going on	02:52
DocScrutinizer	http://molly.corsac.net/~corsac/n9/20111208_006.jpg [2011-12-09 00:41:35] <javispedro> I booted the kernel, and it works	02:54
javispedro	hmm	02:54
* javispedro is now confused too		02:54
jabis	mosty, do you have a .harmattan_desktop there as well	02:54
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: he assumed a N9. I tested on a N950.	02:54
javispedro	dunno about the N9. Remember I don't have one.	02:55
DocScrutinizer	well, the kernel probably works on both platforms anyway	02:55
javispedro	I am not even sure we even have the same version these days.	02:55
javispedro	but yes, if we are, then it should work	02:55
javispedro	also for some reason n9 users don't get the warranty prompt	02:56
jabis	PR1.1 on N9 was the same as beta 3 on 950?	02:56
javispedro	yep	02:56
DocScrutinizer	mostly	02:56
DocScrutinizer	+- a day	02:56
* javispedro nods		02:56
javispedro	... which is I'm not sure we have the same kernel version...	02:56
jabis	I don't have a 950 tho I have a devel N9 so all the rules bound don't affect me x)	02:57
javispedro	maybe I should ask DDP guys to send me a N9 instead of another N950 :)	02:57
* DocScrutinizer calls it a day, and hits the sack to start in 4h to try and bring all of you folks awesome (free?) LTE sticks and modules in the future		02:58
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: haha, hope so!	02:58
jabis	you do that ^^	02:58
jabis	DocScrutinizer: and publicly I attributed myself as stupid - you'll see it tomo when you read them logs X)	03:01
jabis	tho I may not be - but that's another topic >.<	03:02
mosty	jabis, no- what is a .harmattan_desktop file?	03:02
jabis	mosty, app_harmattan.desktop	03:04
jabis	it shouldn't've been generated by qtcreator	03:04
jabis	(if you used such a thing that is)	03:05
mosty	i don't use qtcreator. anyway there is no such file on my test device	03:05
ZogG_laptop	ok who can help me with qml?	03:05
jabis	I believe the description lies somewhere in the Nokia Store entry reqs	03:06
jabis	ZogG, you hate me still? x)	03:06
jabis	for being right x)	03:06
ZogG_laptop	jabis: why?	03:06
ZogG_laptop	jabis: remind me	03:06
jabis	I've been awal for at least 10 days - but because of something x)	03:07
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ZogG_laptop	hhmmmm	03:11
ZogG_laptop	i have toolbar declared in main.qml and i have label declared in other.qml	03:12
ZogG_laptop	main.qml loads declare as part of it	03:12
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ZogG_laptop	but when i do set onclicked for toolbar other.link.text=qsTr("test"); it doesn't work	03:13
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merlin1991	anybody know why if every update of the apps for meego app I get that silly update icon thingy in my launcher?	03:14
jabis	ZogG_laptop: you're prolly hooking to the wrong native event guessing game	03:16
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jabis	merlin1991: every update will pop "down" :)	03:17
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merlin1991	no I mean, is there going to be an update when it doesn't come and pollute my launcher?	03:33
merlin1991	the only way I know to get rid of it is to remove the app, and reinstall the newest version	03:33
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javispedro	wow	04:04
javispedro	http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh694058	04:04
javispedro	the license for the windows metro app store specifically mentions Open Source apps	04:04
javispedro	and is actually NOT bashing them, but rather giving them nearly carte blanche	04:05
javispedro	"... if you include FOSS, your license terms may conflict with the limitations set forth in Section 3 of those Terms, but only to the extent required by the FOSS that you use." ...	04:05
SpeedEvil	wow indeed	04:05
SpeedEvil	They don't limit the licence to one of the normal set?	04:06
ieatlint	MS isn't anti-FOSS, they're just not active supporters	04:06
javispedro	well in the phone world they are quite antiFOSS	04:06
javispedro	this is for the desktop btw, I see I failed to mention it	04:07
luke-jr	SpeedEvil: they define it as OSI-approved	04:07
SpeedEvil	ah - makes sense	04:07
javispedro	ah, it's just one sentence after that =)	04:08
luke-jr	javispedro: it makes sense though	04:08
luke-jr	javispedro: it is another step toward DRM world	04:08
javispedro	"“FOSS” means any software licensed under an Open Source Initiative Approved License."	04:08
ieatlint	i can't say i've looked enough at wp7 to really say if i agree they're anti-FOSS there	04:08
javispedro	ieatlint: they mention the GPL.... and explicitly forbid it.	04:09
ieatlint	haha, nice	04:09
ieatlint	that's good, i was starting to miss the old MS	04:09
ieatlint	i've had to just concentrate my hate on apple	04:09
javispedro	in the wp7 store dev agreement: "Excluded Licenses include, but are not limited to the GPLv3 Licenses."	04:10
luke-jr	javispedro: DRM requires that	04:11
luke-jr	DRM and GPLv3 are fundamentally incompatible.	04:11
javispedro	the way it is implemented, also incompatible with the GPLv2 and v1.	04:12
ieatlint	ok, i should leave work	04:12
luke-jr	javispedro: yes	04:15
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z720	hmm.. after try with open kernel from http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/ N9 cannot back to live after reboot. 1st state N9 boot open kernel without issues, without installing anything just play with some apps and reboot. N9 die, now need to reflash.	07:51
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dm8tbr	I think that aligns with what I heard about previous such experiments	07:53
dm8tbr	device MALFs after booting back into secure mode	07:53
z720	hate to reflash coz need to reinstall everything. sigh..	07:56
z720	any idea how to autorun installation on needed apps for 1st boot?	07:57
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jonni	z720: did you got malf screen?	08:02
z720	yes	08:02
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jonni	and whats there error message in malf?	08:03
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DocScrutinizer	yep, MALF is basically inevitable	08:03
jonni	malf should only happen if you edit files that are protected	08:04
DocScrutinizer	sure	08:05
DocScrutinizer	and esp when you flash openmode kernel it shouldn't malf on second boot	08:05
z720	Device not working properly. Try updating the device software with Nokia Software Updater.... bla..blas..	08:05
DocScrutinizer	blabla is NO FILE on N9	08:06
DocScrutinizer	or doesn't MALF screen show the detailed error msg anymore?	08:07
jonni	z720: did you flash it or used "-l -b -k"?	08:07
z720	only that Nokia msg	08:07
z720	use -l -b -k	08:07
DocScrutinizer	usually it displays the content of /var/malf which is some filename	08:08
z720	now the problem N9 fail to boot, how to get into /var/malf ?	08:09
jonni	z720: http://wiki.meego.com/N950/Fixing_MALF_state	08:10
jonni	you can remove malf by hand, and check the same file to see what caused it	08:11
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z720	jonni: let me try	08:12
z720	I'm using linux mint, found errors in dmesg "[24287.740585] usb 1-1.2: new high speed USB device number 23 using ehci_hcd	08:14
z720	[24302.797094] usb 1-1.2: device descriptor read/64, error -110"	08:14
z720	N9 partition does not turn up	08:14
z720	usb 1-1.2: device not accepting address 25, error -110	08:15
jonni	maybe try different usb port or something	08:15
DocScrutinizer	blacklist ehci_hcd	08:15
DocScrutinizer	http://www.absolutelytech.com/2010/04/18/solved-unable-to-enumerate-usb-device-disabling-ehci_hcd/	08:20
z720	after added to blacklist.conf, dont need to reboot system right?	08:22
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DocScrutinizer	read the URL above	08:25
DocScrutinizer	it doesn't work always, but it easy to test and quite likely to cure a certain class of problems	08:26
z720	i think that idea is to disable usb2.0 and force it to usb1 right? and does not work on thinkpad W510. after unbind that USB port is disabled.	08:28
DocScrutinizer	hmm	08:28
DocScrutinizer	modprobe ohci_hcd, or uhci_hcd?	08:30
z720	thinkpad W510 too advance, let me try HP PC. :)	08:31
DocScrutinizer	:-D	08:31
jonni	I have W510, sometimes usb ports just get screwed up, and I just switch the cable to different port :)	08:32
jonni	or reboot the machine :)	08:32
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z720	same err with HP "device descriptor read/64, error -110"	08:43
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gri	what's the best way to execute a certain action every 24 hours but not on 00:00 (cron)? syncfw? something different?	09:54
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MohammadAG	gri, timed?	09:56
Sput	MohammadAG: re contacts, there's some cli tool installed on the n9 that imports vcs files	09:56
MohammadAG	or QTimer :P	09:56
Sput	vcsimporter or somesuch	09:56
MohammadAG	hmm	09:56
* MohammadAG grumbles, ssh isn't installed		09:57
MohammadAG	I forgot beta2 turned off developer mode	09:57
Sput	the contacts app also can export to vcs, which is a nice way to backup contacts	09:57
Sput	"turned off developer mode"?	09:57
gri	MohammadAG: is there some documentation about timed?	09:57
Sput	ssh is still there :)	09:57
MohammadAG	Sput, developer mode is turned off by default	09:58
MohammadAG	whereas it was on on beta1	09:58
Sput	ah, by default, yes	09:58
MohammadAG	gri, not sure, I'll google around	09:58
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MohammadAG	hmm, timed is open o_O	09:58
Stskeeps	yeah, it's in meego	09:59
MohammadAG	gri, http://www.linuxcertif.com/man/3/libtimed/	10:02
MohammadAG	holy shit	10:05
MohammadAG	it imported my contacts from my Nokia account	10:05
MohammadAG	+1 there	10:05
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gri	MohammadAG: thank you	10:06
gri	MohammadAG: the nokia conacts also saved me once when I accidentally deleted all	10:06
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MohammadAG	heh, developer-mode postinst or whatever triggers a reboot	10:08
MohammadAG	nice	10:08
gri	without a warning, that's quite cool :)	10:10
Kaadlajk_	there is a warning	10:11
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MohammadAG	uh	10:17
MohammadAG	wasn't the ssh password rootme?	10:17
secyritas	yep	10:17
MohammadAG	it doesn't work :/	10:18
secyritas	hasnt work for me either after pr1.2	10:18
secyritas	something changed...	10:18
MohammadAG	I'm on beta2, it should work fine	10:18
MohammadAG	hmm, /me checks ssh config	10:19
yipdw	the SDK connection application sets up a developer account with a six-character password, and binds sshd to either the wlan or USB interfaces	10:19
yipdw	at which point rootme is the password for devel-su	10:20
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yipdw	at least, that worked forme	10:20
MohammadAG	# Authentication:	10:22
MohammadAG	LoginGraceTime 120	10:22
MohammadAG	PermitRootLogin no	10:22
MohammadAG	StrictModes yes	10:22
the-boss	MohammadAG: Error: "Authentication:" is not a valid command.	10:22
MohammadAG	oh nice, we have a bot	10:22
MohammadAG	# help	10:22
the-boss	MohammadAG: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.	10:22
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Yeah, that is ours. :)	10:22
MohammadAG	like a boss	10:23
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gabriel9	Venemo> ping	10:41
djszapi	Venemo is not here ?	10:42
gabriel9	hm i see now	10:44
gabriel9	i didi not see that his post was in history	10:45
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ZogG_laptop	gabriel9: u are history	10:48
gabriel9	?	10:48
gri	venemo has left ~14 hours ago :)	10:49
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gabriel9	oh man	10:51
gabriel9	i was not watching on time	10:51
gabriel9	i'm all numb, coding last night till 4PM	10:52
ZogG_laptop	X-Fade ping	10:52
X-Fade	ZogG_laptop: pong	10:53
ZogG_laptop	secyritas: 1.2?	10:53
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ZogG_laptop	X-Fade: sup	11:08
ZogG_laptop	X-Fade: last time u disapeared i wanted to ask you to add me too	11:08
ZogG_laptop	https://meego.com/users/zogg	11:09
X-Fade	ZogG_laptop: Sure, will do.	11:09
ZogG_laptop	right now making my first app on meego	11:09
X-Fade	Done.	11:09
ZogG_laptop	going slowly but one day i'll be proud to upload it =)	11:09
X-Fade	Hehe :P	11:10
ZogG_laptop	X-Fade: thnks	11:10
ZogG_laptop	MohammadAG: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1344114	11:12
ZogG_laptop	X-Fade: btw when i switch to testing mode on site and press newest it throughs me back to stable apps =)	11:16
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X-Fade	ZogG_laptop: Yes, that is not context aware yet.	11:18
ZogG_laptop	X-Fade: and about QA i think main question is missed. e.g. there is nice app. it works fine as far as i see... but it has random crashes, but there is nowhere in question releated question	11:20
X-Fade	ZogG_laptop: Random crashes is not something you can really give a good weight to though.	11:21
MohammadAG	ZogG_laptop, I don't support closed source when it's done by someone	11:22
MohammadAG	if you reversed something, release it, it's not your code to keep it closed	11:22
MohammadAG	or at least explain the protocol so others' work will be easier	11:22
ZogG_laptop	X-Fade: i think QA should be integrated with author as well so he can improve if he really wants it in stable. as well as end user i wouldn't like crashing app in stable	11:25
X-Fade	Sure, that would be nice.	11:27
Sput	MohammadAG: you have to deploy the ssh keys via QtSDK in order to make passwordless login work	11:35
MohammadAG	Sput, done that	11:36
Sput	then it should just work	11:37
Sput	(user "developer")	11:37
Sput	it's probably a good thing too to not have a root-enabled sshd with a well-known password layng around :)	11:38
MohammadAG	it is working lol	11:38
MohammadAG	logging in as root is disabled in sshd config	11:38
Sput	yep	11:38
Sput	that's what changed in one of the firmware updates :)	11:38
ZogG_laptop	hmmm anyway root there lack of most common thing	11:39
ZogG_laptop	i can't even do chown	11:39
Sput	yeah, the root account is pretty limited	11:40
ZogG_laptop	=\	11:41
ZogG_laptop	it is, the first check was "sudo make me sandwich"	11:41
tomma	anyone have any idea how i can set usb0 to get ip using dhcp?	11:49
tomma	setting changing static from /etc/network/interfaces to dhcp didn't work	11:50
MohammadAG	k, sociality needs a lot of work	11:52
MohammadAG	mainly, needs threading(!!!)	11:52
MohammadAG	MTF widgets construct slower than Qt ones	11:52
ZogG_laptop	tomma on pc?	11:56
ZogG_laptop	if so read meamo wiki about it	11:56
ZogG_laptop	i think it has it there	11:56
rantom	Anyone else getting duplicate/triplacate alarms when using Calendar?	12:00
rantom	Not sure yet is it an issue with Google/CalDAV or with Harmattan itself	12:01
X-Fade	I've seen it at least. With a google synced calendar.	12:01
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, ping	12:03
MohammadAG	or anyone familiar with the N9/50	12:03
DocScrutinizer51	at work	12:04
MohammadAG	does the screen generates interrupts when double tapping it, or is it simply kept on?	12:04
MohammadAG	it's a y/n	12:04
rantom	(Minor clarification: I get one alarm with two entries [which I find odd] for the upcoming event. Time is right, the two entries just don't make sense. After that I get another alarm when the event starts, which I've yet to find out why it's sent)	12:04
DocScrutinizer51	ping me now+6h	12:04
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Screen and capacitive driver are 2 diferent things I guess :)	12:05
tomma	ZogG_laptop, no harmattan device	12:06
tomma	i have dhcp server running and i want device to get ip for usb networking from it	12:07
ZogG_laptop	tomma: sdk -> usb -> setting -> use dhcp	12:10
tomma	that sets device to work as dhcp server	12:10
ZogG_laptop	tomma: no, you can't set harmattan to be dhcpd	12:11
ZogG_laptop	dhcp*	12:11
ZogG_laptop	as far as i know	12:11
ZogG_laptop	what do you want to do genaraly?	12:11
ZogG_laptop	generally*	12:11
tomma	what i want is that when i plug device to laptop, it asks ip from laptop using dhcp	12:12
tomma	not other way around as it is by default	12:13
tomma	it works if i do it manualy by using udhcpc	12:13
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ZogG_laptop	hmm	12:17
ZogG_laptop	tomma: have you changed config of network and have youu donne if-usb up?	12:18
MohammadAG	sigh, why are iOS's APIs better than MTFs	12:18
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X-Fade	Does anyone want to help out testing a few apps in Apps Testing? I would be good to get more apps in Apps proper. (And test out the promotions)	12:25
X-Fade	Please fill in the QA forms for the apps in: http://apps.formeego.org/staging/basecategories/n9/pr1.0/harmattan/	12:25
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* dm8tbr will take a look		12:34
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matrixx	X-Fade: I updated description of my package, but the update didn't propage to apps.formeego.org, is this expected?	12:44
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matrixx	I resubmitted the package to testing, and I can see in afo that the new version is in, but still with the old description	12:45
X-Fade	matrixx: Need to check. btw, it is better to always change your version number when you change something in your package.	12:45
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matrixx	X-Fade: I'll do that next time	12:46
X-Fade	matrixx: Due to that debian packages are never supposed to change, they get cached for a long time. This will give you all kinds of weird issues when you change a package and not increment.	12:46
matrixx	I didn't change anything in the package itself, just the description field in cobs	12:47
X-Fade	matrixx: Hmm yeah, that is an odd case :)	12:47
secyritas	ZogG_laptop: ah, 1.1 >_<	12:48
dm8tbr	whoa, the AFO app looks much cooler than NokiaStore :D	12:48
X-Fade	dm8tbr: of course, what did you expect?	12:48
matrixx	I needed to include a warning, cause changing theme might yield to corrupted IM emoticons	12:48
* dm8tbr just installed theme changer and the two themes		12:50
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matrixx	dm8tbr: notice the above warning if changing between themes	12:56
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cos^	does anyone else have problem that phone randomly asks for facebook u&p?	13:27
cos^	might be linked to simultaneously using fb in browser	13:27
matrixx	cos^: I do	13:27
matrixx	cos^: same with twitter and some email accounts	13:27
cos^	good. hope they fix it..	13:27
matrixx	cos^: yeah, it's a known issue and already fixed	13:27
cos^	..and i guess nokia is releasing it sometimes next year with next SSU	13:29
cos^	i wonder why they don't use normal package management to update apps without SSU	13:29
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Shadikka	I think mine has asked.. once or so	13:30
Shadikka	Didn't think of it, really shrug	13:30
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Ans5i	different web sites might also have different policies when those are re-asked	13:31
cos^	it would be horrible user experience if they would re-ask them at all on a phone	13:32
MohammadAG	matrixx, is that a bug?	13:32
MohammadAG	I remember changing themes in the widgets gallery once	13:33
MohammadAG	X-Fade, may I suggest having the screenshots stop at the next screen shot	13:34
X-Fade	MohammadAG: What, where? :)	13:34
MohammadAG	X-Fade, product view in the appsformeego app :p	13:35
MohammadAG	a fast swipe goes through all screenshots	13:35
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Yes, and a slow one doesn't? :)	13:35
X-Fade	MohammadAG: That is the whole idea of kinetic scrolling?	13:36
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matrixx	cos^: I think it's this bug: http://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=192	13:36
MohammadAG	either that or don't make them loop	13:37
MohammadAG	how do I nuke the device update notification	13:37
MohammadAG	X-Fade, ideally, screenshots shouldn't have kinetic scrolling	13:38
MohammadAG	in the gallery, when you swipe quickly it still takes to you to the next screenshot	13:38
X-Fade	MohammadAG: I think we got other things to worry about, really :)	13:38
MohammadAG	or in the main view, swiping takes you to the next view, doesn't loop through all 3 views :)	13:38
MohammadAG	anyway, yeah, minor details	13:38
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MohammadAG	besides that it seems to work well	13:39
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X-Fade	I'd rather get commenting, rating and community QA implemented in the app first.	13:39
MohammadAG	X-Fade, a tick next to installed apps would also be helpful when the software catalogue gets large	13:39
cos^	matrixx: yep, that's it. great.	13:40
X-Fade	MohammadAG: You mean show installed status?	13:40
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MohammadAG	don't you have an API for that?	13:43
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MohammadAG	X-Fade, yes	13:46
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djszapi	Hi! Is there such a list for Android somewhere, if anybody knows ? http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/Activities_blocked_by_the_N9%26N950_security_policy I would like to make a comparison what hackers can do on Harmattan in comparison with that.	13:46
X-Fade	MohammadAG: The app keeps a database locally with installed status.	13:47
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djszapi	snowpong: http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/Activities_blocked_by_the_N9%26N950_security_policy -> Have you seen such a list for Android ?	13:47
matrixx	MohammadAG: yeah, I think it's a bug in themedaemon, need to investigate a bit more	13:47
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snowpong	djszapi: you mean for apps, or for developers hacking on a non rooted device or?	13:49
djszapi	snowpong: I guess that page expresses they would like to root the device.	13:50
snowpong	djszapi: http://developer.android.com/reference/android/Manifest.permission.html this is the list of android permissions an app can ask for at least	13:52
djszapi	snowpong: so they probably complain about that, it is not N900	13:52
MohammadAG	X-Fade, but the app doesn't show it	13:53
djszapi	snowpong: Can I replace system components ?	13:53
snowpong	djszapi: no wouldn't think so on a non-rooted device, replacing or overwriting them are probably not supported	13:54
snowpong	djszapi: but the code for ICS is out there, and I believe people have rebuilt it and flashed their own versions	13:55
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X-Fade	MohammadAG: Only when you are in the details page.	13:55
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Not in the listing though,.	13:55
MohammadAG	X-Fade, yeah, that's what I meant	13:56
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snowpong	djszapi: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1363593 <- like these people seem to do	13:56
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djszapi	snowpong: warranty void then ?	13:57
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snowpong	djszapi: yes	13:57
javispedro	woah	13:58
javispedro	sending a package to finland = ~100€	13:58
Stskeeps	javispedro: what, are you mailbombing?	13:58
MohammadAG	lol	13:58
w00t	explosives cost extra	13:58
MohammadAG	cost me 50 bucks to ship, two days shipping	13:59
Stskeeps	w00t: i should be worried that i thought the same thing..	13:59
javispedro	MohammadAG, which company?	13:59
MohammadAG	DHL	13:59
javispedro	Stskeeps, not unless the battery decides to explode	13:59
w00t	Stskeeps: or we just admit we're both battlescarred	13:59
w00t	:P	13:59
djszapi	snowpong: do they detect the warranty void if you reflash the stock kernel again ?	13:59
MohammadAG	djszapi, android?	13:59
MohammadAG	android has a kernel flash counter	14:00
snowpong	djszapi: probably not, but would you have access to it?	14:00
MohammadAG	yes, you can unpack the stock image to get the kernel	14:00
MohammadAG	the Galaxy SII shows a ! icon at bootup with a custom kernel	14:00
snowpong	djszapi: if you just play "dumb" at the service center I don't think they'd notice or care :)	14:00
MohammadAG	a way around it is to flash the custom kernel, then the stock one, then flash the custom one in userland	14:00
MohammadAG	but that increases flash count to 3	14:00
MohammadAG	you can buy a jig off ebay that resets that counter though	14:01
snowpong	MohammadAG: there is a flash count they can read? didn't know that	14:01
MohammadAG	yes	14:01
djszapi	I thought the simplest solution is a write-only chip	14:02
djszapi	but probably not that cheap solution :P	14:02
javispedro	DHL also wants to charge me 100euro	14:03
MohammadAG	http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1291215	14:03
MohammadAG	javispedro, what about Israel?	14:03
MohammadAG	djszapi, a simpler solution is not to give a fuck	14:03
javispedro	MohammadAG, I actually tried out of curiosity: "price can not be calculated."	14:03
MohammadAG	LMFAO	14:04
javispedro	I guess if that is an euphemism for "astronomical"	14:04
javispedro	s/if//	14:04
infobot	javispedro meant: I guess that is an euphemism for "astronomical"	14:04
X-Fade	javispedro: Can't you just use your local post service?	14:06
javispedro	60eur.	14:06
X-Fade	javispedro: Crazy buggers :)	14:06
X-Fade	javispedro: They'd charge me about 12 eur for that.	14:07
javispedro	There must be some kind of gravity well between me and Finland	14:07
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X-Fade	javispedro: Warranty return or what?	14:08
javispedro	yep	14:08
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* javispedro googles around		14:09
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MohammadAG	javispedro,	14:11
X-Fade	javispedro: Maybe, you can send it to a local branch?	14:11
MohammadAG	you familiar with all MTF classes?	14:11
djszapi	MohammadAG: flash counter is not enough unless the customer service zeroes that out after a reflash.	14:13
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djszapi	and even in that case, it is not enough if there is such an application zeroing the flash counter.	14:14
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javispedro	MohammadAG, nope :)	14:14
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MohammadAG	javispedro, I need something like http://adeem.me/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/UITableView/AddDeleteReorderUITableView/Picture%203.png	14:17
MohammadAG	djszapi, ^	14:17
djszapi	snowpong: mmm, it does not use general linux credentials and capabilities ?	14:17
MohammadAG	a list with a draggable handle to rearrange cells	14:17
Termana	MohammadAG, I hear you can pick something like that up for about $800	14:18
MohammadAG	Termana, you ever tried to sing They see me trollin	14:19
MohammadAG	also javispedro is the lockscreen part of protected aegis files?	14:20
MohammadAG	I need music controls on the lockscreen and afaik the new FW has it	14:20
MohammadAG	I'm so awesome	14:22
MohammadAG	mcompositor crashed so I had to kill it, but the keyboard won't show, but it still worked	14:23
MohammadAG	so I typed on an invisible onscreen keyboard	14:23
snowpong	djszapi: no	14:23
javispedro	MohammadAG, yes, I'd think so	14:23
djszapi	snowpong: interesting, so they wrapped it. That is an interesting approach.	14:23
MohammadAG	javispedro, djszapi and the cells?	14:23
frals	"crashed so i had to kill it"... how does smth crash without dying?	14:23
MohammadAG	frals, high CPU usage, it didn't show the keyboard/render windows well	14:24
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: 5 min	14:24
frals	doesnt sounds like a crash ;)	14:24
djszapi	frals: for instance if they caught the exception and run a process with some system command in the background :P	14:24
snowpong	djszapi: well, most apps for android are written in java/dalvik - so no wonder they wrapped it	14:25
DocScrutinizer51	..then I go back to OC tasks ;-D	14:25
MohammadAG	frals, same question goes for you :P	14:25
djszapi	snowpong: one reason I could mention for dropping the general linux credentials and capabilities, if they fine tune them more, and they say it is not granular enough for instnce.	14:25
MohammadAG	I need something like http://adeem.me/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/UITableView/AddDeleteReorderUITableView/Picture%203.png	14:25
DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: 4min availability left	14:27
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, does the screen generate double tap interrupts or is it simply not disabled?	14:27
javispedro	isn't the accelerometer the one doing the double tap thing	14:28
DocScrutinizer51	I dunno for sure but think the touch controller detects a 'gesture'	14:28
DocScrutinizer51	no	14:28
DocScrutinizer51	it could do	14:28
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MohammadAG	javispedro, no	14:29
MohammadAG	double tap the front camera	14:29
DocScrutinizer51	but unlock dt is sensed by ts	14:29
MohammadAG	so it's something that can't be done on the N900 right?	14:29
MohammadAG	at the same technical level	14:29
Stskeeps	sure it's not the accelerometer instead?	14:29
DocScrutinizer51	and I think by ts-controller	14:29
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, very sure	14:29
DocScrutinizer51	yes	14:29
Stskeeps	mmk	14:29
MohammadAG	Stskeeps, double tap the N950's bezel	14:30
MohammadAG	it won't unlock	14:30
DocScrutinizer51	doubletap screen with pencil	14:30
X-Fade	MohammadAG: Try this. Lock screen. Press with one finger hard(ish) on middle of screen while phone is on table. Then use another finger to tap twice on the screen.	14:30
X-Fade	MohammadAG: You'll then notice that it needs really hard tapping for it to wake up :)	14:31
DocScrutinizer51	this proves what?	14:31
DocScrutinizer51	afk bbl - 4min expired	14:32
X-Fade	THat it is accel based?	14:32
MohammadAG	X-Fade, surely you meant isn't	14:32
* javispedro concurs with X-Fade's observation		14:33
X-Fade	MohammadAG: It is, because I can't then wake up the phone with light tapping. But can with very hard.	14:33
javispedro	This happened to me several times	14:33
DocScrutinizer51	check your IRQs	14:33
MohammadAG	you don't have to press hard	14:34
DocScrutinizer51	will tell	14:34
javispedro	Another observation is that it is easier to unlock with the device on the hand than with the device on a table	14:34
MohammadAG	you're just using multitouch, which doesn't work in this case	14:34
DocScrutinizer51	javispedro: body gnd'ed	14:34
MohammadAG	the accelerometer exists in the device	14:34
DocScrutinizer51	afk	14:34
MohammadAG	not under the screen	14:34
javispedro	DocScrutinizer, ah, good point	14:34
MohammadAG	otherwise why does tapping the bezel not unlock the device?	14:34
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MohammadAG	or even better	14:35
MohammadAG	get a hammer and double smash	14:35
MohammadAG	it won't unlock	14:35
javispedro	it will also fix my dead pixels	14:35
MohammadAG	gives me ideas if I get that second N950...	14:36
javispedro	finally, someone shipping this thing for ~30eur	14:36
MohammadAG	can that someone calculate shipping to israel?	14:36
javispedro	nah, it's a local company	14:36
javispedro	ah, shipping TO	14:36
javispedro	MohammadAG, same price as to finland	14:37
MohammadAG	30?	14:38
djszapi	javispedro: what would you like to ship ?	14:38
MohammadAG	does the fine print include "Package may be held in customs indefinitely"?	14:38
javispedro	djszapi, the n950	14:38
javispedro	djszapi, for repairs only, I still didn't give up on aegis =)	14:39
djszapi	javispedro: heh	14:40
djszapi	heh, android has a "Brick" credential for requesting =)	14:44
javispedro	hah	14:45
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djszapi	snowpong: are there android security experts on android-dev for helping ? It would be nice to have a discusssion with them at some point =)	14:52
MohammadAG	I'm interested in what would come out of the discussion	14:58
djszapi	better understanding of their security architecture and implementation.	15:00
snowpong	djszapi: you mean qt for android, or just android?	15:02
djszapi	snowpong: the security in general which also takes effect on qt applications.	15:03
snowpong	djszapi: not sure, I'm sure you'd get some good answers though, that or some less official modding mailinglists	15:06
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djszapi	snowpong: can you flash your device also on Mac and Linux ? Are there software updaters like that on those operating systems ?	15:37
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ZogG_N9	hmm	15:40
ZogG_N9	i build package for n9, installed it, where it goes? as icon doesnt start it	15:41
djszapi	icon does not start, huh ? What do you mean ?	15:41
djszapi	red icon on the applauncher screen or what ?	15:42
ZogG_N9	normal one	15:42
ZogG_N9	qt synbol as i choosed at qtxreator	15:42
ZogG_N9	if i build it to harmattan target it starts on phone	15:43
ZogG_N9	now a build package and no go	15:43
djszapi	http://www.learnfizz.com/happyhenry/first-lets-fire-all-the-managers---harvard-business-review heh	15:43
ZogG_N9	a=i	15:43
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ZogG_N9	?	15:45
ZogG_N9	btw packages i build from creator are still in /opt even after uninstall	15:46
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djszapi	did you make a purge uninstall ?	15:47
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snowpong	djszapi: it seems you can flash it from your phone completely http://www.androidpolice.com/2010/05/08/complete-guide-how-to-flash-a-custom-rom-to-your-android-phone-with-rom-manager-full-backup-restore/	15:53
ZogG_N9	nope just with uninstall from icon	15:53
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ZogG_laptop	but shouldn't it do that?	15:53
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djszapi	ZogG_laptop: you should always debug it, right ? :) So try from cli for verification...	15:57
ZogG_laptop	djszapi: yeah but where is it in cli? i found /opt/my-app but that's old one	15:58
ZogG_laptop	maybe my desktop file is broken? should it create one properly by itself>	15:58
ZogG_laptop	and if not where i need to set it right?	15:59
ZogG_laptop	as well as where i can change icon?	15:59
djszapi	so is there an app in Ovi for rooting the phone ? :D	16:00
djszapi	ZogG_laptop: after the installation, try: dpkg -P your_package	16:00
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djszapi	but first make sure, the installation went fine from command line.	16:05
ZogG_laptop	before that i changed icon maunally	16:09
ZogG_laptop	how do i add it to be installed?	16:09
djszapi	tbh, I do not understand what you do :)	16:10
MohammadAG	oh nice	16:12
MohammadAG	my expensive AKG headphones don't work on the N950	16:12
MohammadAG	fucking apple plug	16:12
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ZogG_laptop	djszapi: i made app with qtcreator	16:14
ZogG_laptop	but qtcreator is stupd	16:14
djszapi	I told ya to remove qtcreator from your workflow :P	16:14
ZogG_laptop	djszapi: letme start slowly, as i don't know qt or qml the autocomplete is good for me	16:15
ZogG_laptop	and simulator	16:15
ZogG_laptop	fuck now i get error on that #ifdef HARMATTAN_BOOSTER	16:15
ZogG_laptop	#include <MDeclarativeCache>	16:15
ZogG_laptop	#endif	16:15
the-boss	ZogG_laptop: Error: "include" is not a valid command.	16:15
the-boss	ZogG_laptop: Error: "endif" is not a valid command.	16:15
jonni	MohammadAG: atleast I bought the connectivity kit for my AKG's it had nokia plug too.	16:16
ZogG_laptop	for no reason	16:16
MohammadAG	jonni, huh?	16:16
MohammadAG	jonni, these are the ones I have http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-muEV5bgVmMc/Ttix4R6Fe6I/AAAAAAAABME/fDWPrHvgu2g/s640/P1030916.JPG	16:16
MohammadAG	<ZogG_laptop> but qtcreator is stupd	16:17
MohammadAG	blame the dev, not the tool	16:17
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gri	ZogG_laptop, djszapi: for me qtcreator works well :)	16:20
jonni	ah, I have AKG K480 NC, so I got the following http://uk.akg.com/product-detail-2821/ha-450.html for connecting it to my phone	16:21
djszapi	gri: because you never tried cmake for instance.	16:21
gri	djszapi: sure but if you use qmake it works as you wish	16:22
* djszapi does not have any ideas how to development something using cmake for Symbian		16:22
djszapi	develop*	16:22
djszapi	gri: I think qmake is the worst part of Qt ever :P	16:23
djszapi	gri: it would not scale for my project at all. It would be a pain to get qmake work for that.	16:23
gri	for my needs it works perfectly	16:23
gri	the company I worked switched to qmake since the old system was much more crappy	16:23
djszapi	and scratchbox works for everything, so that is why I do not use a partially working system :)	16:23
gri	so for me it's an improvement :)	16:24
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ZogG_laptop	gri: how do u add your own icon?	16:32
gri	ZogG_laptop: the package icon or the launcher one?	16:32
ZogG_laptop	djszapi: the reason it didn't start i had to change desktop exec =\	16:32
djszapi	ZogG_laptop: you need to use absolute paths	16:32
ZogG_laptop	gri: launcher	16:32
djszapi	exec ?	16:33
gri	ZogG_laptop: like djszapi said, Icon=/some/relative/path in your .desktop file	16:33
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ZogG_laptop	djszapi: it used Exec=/usr/bin/invoker --type=d -s /opt/workIN/bin/workIN	16:33
gri	or a file name but then you icon must be inside the theme dir and the phone needs a reboot - not recommended	16:33
ZogG_laptop	gri: yeah but how do i install icon with deb?	16:33
gri	ZogG_laptop: install steps?	16:33
djszapi	ZogG_laptop: debian/*-data.install	16:34
djszapi	or just along with the binary's package, as in: debian/yourpackage.install	16:34
gri	ZogG_laptop: http://pastebin.com/QQq9mRGW	16:34
gri	like you install anything else with qmake	16:34
ZogG_laptop	i never used qmake	16:35
gri	ok then I have no idea :)	16:35
ZogG_laptop	gri i mean i bet qtcretor use it	16:36
ZogG_laptop	but i don't know how to use it manually	16:36
ZogG_laptop	so i can add those to myapp.pro and it would be used?	16:36
gri	yes	16:36
gri	if you change the file names and maybe the paths fitting to your project	16:36
ZogG_laptop	shouldn't i use /usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/apps/ for iconpath?	16:37
gri	yes, you should use this	16:37
gri	I need the icons in theme dir for some other reason	16:38
djszapi	not neccesarily.	16:38
djszapi	many apps use 64x64	16:38
gri	you can also change to files property to a wildcard like "qmlfiles.files = $$files(*.qml)"	16:40
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ZogG_laptop	ls -l /usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/apps/ \|grep img	16:44
ZogG_laptop	-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3113 Dec 9 2011 imgur80.png	16:44
gri	ZogG_laptop: So that's working? or not the expected result? :)	16:50
djszapi	snowpong: you can get those credentials you sent in the link only from android market or already on your phone ?	16:53
ZogG_laptop	knope	16:53
ZogG_laptop	Icon=/usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/apps/imgrup80.png	16:54
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gri	ZogG_laptop: You do know that there's a typo in the Icon= line?	16:54
ZogG_laptop	Icon=/usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/apps/imgrup80.pnggri obv no, where?	16:55
gri	imgrup <<	16:55
ZogG_laptop	admn pasted by mistake	16:55
ZogG_laptop	right	16:56
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snowpong	djszapi: it doesn't matter if the app came from the market or you installed it via usb locally of from some other url directly - but android market apps are the only installable ones by default on a phone, you have to explicitly allow non-market apps to be installed	17:02
djszapi	snowpong: there is some developer mode there, or you can be granted by those credentials if you allow the non-market apps to be installed ?	17:05
ZogG_laptop	gri thanks worked flawless =)	17:05
ZogG_laptop	now i need to reslove one think with toolbar and beta of beta of alpha is ready =)	17:05
djszapi	ZogG_laptop: and then you can drop qtcreator :)	17:16
ZogG_laptop	djszapi: lowly slowly	17:23
ZogG_laptop	djszapi: i started to do the project in vim actually	17:24
MohammadAG	djszapi, it's a toggle in settings	17:25
MohammadAG	much like the N9	17:25
ZogG_laptop	if i have text element in qml that is long sentense how do i do that it automaticly align words	17:25
MohammadAG	"Allow installation on non-Market applications"	17:25
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MohammadAG	djszapi, I find aegis less useful that Qt Creator, so that probably has to be dropped first	17:26
* javispedro waves to his n950		17:30
ZogG_laptop	hmm	17:30
Piru	wait. I'm fairly sure I instaled my own app while that option wasn't enabled	17:31
Piru	I did use dpkg -i though	17:31
javispedro	you had dev mode enabled	17:31
ZogG_laptop	ok i have text area, but hoow do i set color than?	17:31
javispedro	Piru: that option only changes behaviour of the UI	17:31
Piru	oh right. that explains it	17:31
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djszapi	MohammadAG: I will paint you an aegis fan t-shirt ;) ;)	17:39
MohammadAG	djszapi, I prefer printed t-shirts :P	17:41
leinir	finger-painted, and then shrunk before shipped out, so it doesn't fit MohammadAG - much like aegis itself, hmm! ;)	17:41
* leinir runs off ;)		17:41
leinir	(to make tea, in fact ;) )	17:42
MohammadAG	heh	17:42
djszapi	MohammadAG: printed is come on ... not my work :)	17:43
djszapi	btw, of course you can get the printed aegis fan t-shirt too :)	17:45
djszapi	MohammadAG: so you dislike the android secfw too ?	17:47
MohammadAG	djszapi, one of the reasons I hate android	17:48
MohammadAG	before I even knew about Aegis	17:48
MohammadAG	Harmattan/MeeGo weren't announced	17:48
MohammadAG	I tried dmesg on android phone	17:48
MohammadAG	it returned Operation not permitteed	17:48
MohammadAG	but at least, it allows me to replace system APKs and edit config files without MALFing	17:48
djszapi	what is APK ?	17:48
MohammadAG	think rpm but worse :P	17:49
MohammadAG	Android PacKage	17:49
djszapi	aye, you cannot do that on android either	17:49
MohammadAG	you can	17:49
djszapi	that was mentioned above when I asked.	17:49
MohammadAG	I have a Galaxy SII	17:49
javispedro	once jailbroken I guess	17:49
MohammadAG	no	17:50
MohammadAG	APKs can be installed from anywhere when you toggle the err, toggle, in settings	17:50
djszapi	MohammadAG: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/latest.log.html#t2011-12-09T13:53:43	17:50
MohammadAG	Piracy on Android for example doesn't require any sort of rooting	17:50
javispedro	MohammadAG: installing APKs from anywhere is one thing, allowing you to replace system ones is another thing	17:50
MohammadAG	I'm fairly sure I replaced my Phone.apk...	17:50
javispedro	the only mobile platform that doesn't allow you to install "packages from anywhere" at this point is ... iOS.	17:51
javispedro	even WP7, after you pay that Chevron Tax thing, allows you to do so.	17:51
MohammadAG	and the only platform that has APIs but doesn't allow you to use them is... Harmattan	17:51
javispedro	s/has APIs/has documented APIs/ ;)	17:52
djszapi	yeah, but iOS and Android are not well-knownly dead	17:52
javispedro	that might also be the case in WP7, as the WinCE APIs are documented but forbidden	17:52
djszapi	MohammadAG: so the above answer was wrong ?	17:53
djszapi	that I got ?	17:53
* djszapi still wonders what the use case is for the "Brick" credential =)		17:53
javispedro	what would be jailbreaking for if you could replace system components at your pleasure?	17:53
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djszapi	so which is the most undocumented API on Harmattan ? I vote for accounts for instance.	17:58
javispedro	heh, that one is heavily undocumented indeed.	17:59
javispedro	I also think that policy manager could get some N9-specific docs	18:00
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djszapi	The android security does not defend against high-rate calls either. That is not a wonder for me though. Interestingly enough, they have separate credentials for writing and sending s.m.s. messages.	18:01
javispedro	I still think that the N9 aegis policy is very coarse grained	18:06
djszapi	definitely, and it is annoying because It would not have been the biggest part of the job to make it nice. Imho, just a very little attention from app and platform devs.	18:07
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DocScrutinizer51	MohammadAG: so you found out about who's sensing doubletap?	18:22
DocScrutinizer51	~botsnack	18:23
infobot	DocScrutinizer51: aw, gee	18:23
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, nothing to find out, it's the screen	18:40
MohammadAG	djszapi, I'm almost sure I did replace the apk yes	18:41
MohammadAG	I could be wrong though	18:41
djszapi	I have the same question then as javispedro asked.	18:41
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djszapi	gri: have you tried to write a plain password plugin based accounts-ui plugin ?	18:43
gri	djszapi: I did write my own, did not even try libaccounts-ui	18:44
gri	but plain password based should be realizable with the .provider xml only	18:46
djszapi	gri: it does not seem so to me from the "Other mails" plugin.	18:47
djszapi	at least they do some hackery over there. Also, I would probably as many different authentications as many provider files, I think.	18:47
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kkito	hello	18:52
kkito	all my emoticons are screwed uo after installing themechanger? Anyone knows how to fix it?	18:53
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gri	djszapi: what exactly do you try? Do you use SignOn::Identity directly?	19:02
djszapi	I am not trying anything. I do not still understand how the existing plugins work	19:02
djszapi	but they for surely do not just use the provider files.	19:02
gri	well saving a password is quite simple	19:03
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gri	you create an Accounts::Account* instance, create an SignOn::Identity* instance, fill that instance with information like the username, password and store the credentials which then get an id, the id is stored in the account instance - that's all	19:04
gri	if you want to get them back, you have to create a session on Identity*	19:04
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djszapi	that does not seem to be what others do	19:05
gri	sure it is	19:06
gri	https://gitorious.org/web2sms/web2sms/blobs/master/qmlplugin/accountwrapper.cpp#line57	19:06
gri	that's my code	19:06
djszapi	"others" as in builtin plugins	19:06
gri	and I took about the same code from libaccounts-ui	19:06
djszapi	libaccounts-ui is not a libaccounts-ui plugin	19:06
gri	it is	19:06
gri	however it's named correctly	19:07
djszapi	actually, you plugin is even more difficult than needed.	19:07
djszapi	no, the builtin plugins are not open source as far as I know.	19:08
djszapi	at least most of them.	19:08
gri	in theory the plugins just inheric the GenericAccountSetupContext of libaccounts-ui	19:08
gri	inherit	19:08
gri	and add custom storing functions	19:08
djszapi	"just" ?	19:09
kkito	ok, ive found how to fix the emoticons, it was problem with .emoticonthemecache	19:09
djszapi	That is the whole work which can be from X lines to 1000000 :)	19:09
gri	djszapi: Nono :)	19:09
gri	djszapi: There's a function which reads some parts out of the xml	19:09
djszapi	as I said previously, the authentication stuff is almost all the work along with the ui widgets	19:10
gri	you just have to add your private things like tokens no one should see	19:10
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djszapi	and depending on the difficult it can be from X lines to 100000000	19:10
gri	you asked for password plugins	19:11
djszapi	yes, and it is not providers file only.	19:11
gri	the other ones could work the same but might be more code	19:11
djszapi	this is not how the builtin plugins work	19:11
djszapi	it is way much more work than that.	19:11
gri	you can either define your identity in the .provider file OR in the code	19:11
djszapi	nvm	19:12
gri	normal plugins seem to not use the .provider file	19:12
gri	or builtin	19:12
djszapi	of course they do	19:12
MohammadAG	so, a playlist needs MafwPlaylist and another class	19:13
MohammadAG	but I want to reorganize the list ffs	19:13
kkito	djszapi, I dpnt know how the native plugins are done, but no one works properly	19:13
MohammadAG	MTF isn't that rich compared with Qt	19:13
gri	djszapi: they use the file but not the account-setup tag and others	19:13
MohammadAG	gri, they do	19:13
djszapi	MohammadAG: I should finalize my player on top of QtOpenAL :P	19:13
MohammadAG	at least skype does	19:13
MohammadAG	I don't want to use anything other than Mafw :P	19:13
MohammadAG	that sucked on Fremantle, that's why I rewrote Nokia's player	19:14
MohammadAG	it ended up better than there's	19:14
MohammadAG	their's*	19:14
djszapi	is it your wife or why not try something else ? :)	19:14
MohammadAG	theirs ffs	19:14
MohammadAG	cause the policy system made it suck	19:14
MohammadAG	djszapi, I fear at some point I'll rewrite Harmattan's player	19:15
MohammadAG	talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=72156	19:15
djszapi	ohh btw, we need to remove the video credential from unknown	19:15
MohammadAG	WHAT THE FUCK?!	19:15
MohammadAG	Changelog:	19:16
MohammadAG	- To protect users from adult films, we removed the media capabilities of your device	19:16
DocScrutinizer	WUT?	19:16
tomma	haha	19:16
MohammadAG	DocScrutinizer, <djszapi> ohh btw, we need to remove the video credential from unknown	19:16
djszapi	MohammadAG: ahh so you wrote a fancy post for the votes :P	19:16
DocScrutinizer	pffff	19:17
MohammadAG	djszapi, huh	19:17
MohammadAG	djszapi, no, I wrote this http://gitorious.org/qt-mediaplayer/mediaplayer	19:17
DocScrutinizer	never give power to tose who ask for it	19:17
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: gimme power, gimme op :D	19:17
DocScrutinizer	as they most likely will abuse any power granted to them, tho compensate whatever complexes	19:18
djszapi	MohammadAG: Yeah, I know ;)	19:18
MohammadAG	regardless, Harmattan's players offered upgrades and regressions	19:18
DocScrutinizer	applies esp for platsec	19:18
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GeneralAntilles	webOS going open source, eh?	21:07
Stskeeps	seems so	21:08
Stskeeps	what it means is a good question	21:08
GeneralAntilles	The cynical part of me says "Doomed to irrelevancy and a slow death."	21:08
Stskeeps	probably	21:09
GeneralAntilles	Really hard to drum up real interest without slick devices.	21:09
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ajalkane	Cool	21:10
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ajalkane	That's the only decent outcome for an already doomed OS	21:11
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yipdw	I wonder exactly what they're opening	21:18
yipdw	guess we'll find out	21:18
yipdw	all I see in their press release is "underlying code", which is a pretty vague category	21:18
ajalkane	underlying code? Okay, this could be bullshit then. "Here's the Linux kernel sources we're using, have fun!"	21:19
yipdw	yeah, I have no idea what it means; hopefully it includes the interesting bits like userspace	21:19
ajalkane	it could be something like Harmattan, or even worse.	21:20
yipdw	I also wonder what Peter Skillman thinks of this, as IIRC he had a big hand in Harmattan and WebOS' designs	21:20
yipdw	two of your major projects abandoned and tossed aside :P	21:20
ajalkane	I think he's pretty pissed off.	21:20
Stskeeps	at the end of the day, he did probably earn a lot of money	21:21
Stskeeps	:P	21:21
ajalkane	I don't think he cares one way or the other about open source, but doing all that work and seeing it dumped... must be annoying.	21:21
yipdw	yeah	21:21
ajalkane	yeah, as pissed off as he may be, I'd like to switch places. I'm pissed off too, but without the money!	21:21
yipdw	I just see a lot of WebOS in Harmattan's design and it seems like it's the idea that just keeps getting killed	21:22
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yipdw	maybe he'll try a third time and that'll be the charm	21:22
ajalkane	The N9 user interface ideas will live on with Meltemi	21:22
yipdw	I've heard about that, but nothing concrete	21:23
yipdw	did I miss some code drop?	21:23
ajalkane	No, you'll see it in the fall of 2012 probably. Not the code drop, but the results.	21:23
yipdw	ahh	21:23
javispedro	lol	21:25
javispedro	so I suggested the lecturer at the webos show in mwc 2011 they should opensource enyo	21:25
javispedro	and now they are opensourcing enyo?	21:25
Stskeeps	seems so	21:25
javispedro	need to try my convincing suggestive powers on nokians...	21:25
ajalkane	you should get some consulting fee	21:25
yipdw	if you can get them to open up some of the account plugins, that'd be fantastic	21:26
javispedro	yipdw: half of them are libpurple	21:26
djszapi	not entirely.	21:26
javispedro	"half of them" ;P	21:26
djszapi	not entirely the half of them	21:27
yipdw	javispedro: I know a lot of them just talk to telepathy, but the structure is something that still eludes me	21:27
javispedro	not telepathy, gaim	21:27
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ZogG_laptop	hmm can someone tip example on explaine quickest way to load file or better is image	21:27
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yipdw	though, gri's account plugins look like a good thing to study	21:27
ZogG_laptop	javispedro: wanted to thank you btw for icon thng on website =)	21:27
javispedro	ZogG_laptop: yw	21:27
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* javispedro has just dropped his loan n950 in the post office and gets home to read enyo will be OSS		21:28
* djszapi has not seen too much gaim there.		21:28
djszapi	yipdw: you do not wanna see the code, trust me :P	21:28
ZogG_laptop	there is qutim for n9 btw if you interested	21:28
djszapi	they are sort of awkward imho	21:28
ZogG_laptop	it' alpha but working	21:28
yipdw	djszapi: what's awkward -- the details or how it all fits together?	21:29
yipdw	if there's messy code in the details I don't care :P	21:29
djszapi	yipdw: the structure, the spaghetti and everything	21:29
yipdw	oh	21:29
yipdw	hm	21:29
ZogG_laptop	i'm orking on img uploader up	21:29
ZogG_laptop	working* app*	21:30
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javispedro	djszapi: libpurple is gaim's account abstraction library	21:33
djszapi	javispedro: I see no libpurple there.	21:33
djszapi	more or less tp	21:33
javispedro	ps ax \| grep purple ;)	21:33
javispedro	a few instances of /usr/bin/imlibpurpletransport	21:33
djszapi	no phone at hands, sorry :)	21:33
javispedro	ah, wait a moment	21:34
javispedro	my fault, I was talking about webOS =)	21:34
javispedro	but you were talking about Harm	21:34
javispedro	sorry :)	21:34
djszapi	I thought webOS is dead	21:34
djszapi	everybody was saying that...	21:35
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Clint	doesn't everybody say that about meego?	21:35
djszapi	though, the doom 3 code was also disclosed few days/weeks ago after 7-8 years :)	21:35
javispedro	it's as dead as harm... no devices in the pipeline, but new versions are planed	21:35
javispedro	(for existing devices)	21:35
ajalkane	This is a game changer. It's not anymore the war of ecosystems, it's the war of dead platforms!	21:37
DocScrutinizer	javispedro: returning the 950? why?	21:37
javispedro	DocScrutinizer: dead pixels	21:37
djszapi	blolz	21:37
DocScrutinizer	defect or fed up with it?	21:38
DocScrutinizer	aah	21:38
javispedro	former	21:38
javispedro	ajalkane: be proud my child, be proud of your dead platforms!	21:38
ajalkane	I have a like a blob of dead pixels on my N950 in the bottom	21:38
ajalkane	I just can't let go of the device yet. But the dead pixels are spreading so I think I have to soon try getting it fixed if Nokia will	21:39
gri	my n950 display gets milky on the left side (and it's not dirty) :D	21:39
javispedro	ajalkane: to me, it initially started as minuscule dot in the middle of the screen	21:39
ZogG_laptop	i don' have n950	21:40
javispedro	ajalkane: in less than a month, it grown up to a sizeable monster	21:40
ajalkane	javispedro: ah, middle of screen would be too annoying. For me it started bottom near right, then took a great horizontal line to the left, and started doing a blob there.	21:40
javispedro	no signs of stopping	21:40
ajalkane	I think it's trying to build Windows Phone buttons to the bottom.	21:40
javispedro	well, gtg, cya gentlemen	21:41
ZogG_laptop	night	21:41
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ZogG_laptop	so any advise?	21:45
djszapi	advice for what ?	21:47
DocScrutinizer	lemme check... seems we got 3..4 dead LCD on a sample of 350 devices, during first <6 months. I can see why they won't want to ever sell this N950	21:50
frals	yeah.. thats how it works, right? ;)	21:52
ajalkane	The weird thing about this dead pixel thing, it's like a plague. If it starts somewhere, it starts spreading to neighboring cells.	21:54
ajalkane	It's like some ink was leaked inside, and it spreads slowly	21:54
ajalkane	It seems to like spreading more horizontally, and only occassionally penetrates the pixels vertically	21:55
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luke-jr	http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/2011/111209xa.html?	21:57
SpeedEvil	I wonder about cracks.	21:57
SpeedEvil	It seems to be propagating from a common point	21:57
SpeedEvil	I wonder if it's physical damage at assembly or some point	21:57
ajalkane	Could be... but I had the device for almost 4 months before it happened. So it's a bit weird.	21:59
ajalkane	But could be some physical damage at assembly, and with the falling temperatures in finland it started failing	21:59
* djszapi is learning qmake blooeeeee		21:59
ajalkane	qmake ftw!	22:00
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djszapi	:) so guys, sincerely. What is the successor of Harmattan, or at least the potential phone for Qt development, only Android ?	22:01
ajalkane	Tizen :-P	22:01
ajalkane	But seriously Android seems the only choice, unless you're excited about feature phone extravaganza of Meltemi	22:01
djszapi	I thought Finnish people are the most sincere, but there always exceptions. ;)	22:02
djszapi	are*	22:02
djszapi	well the Nokia feature phone will not be a hacker phone either	22:02
djszapi	and they are crazy about the deadlines. I mean... super crazy	22:02
ajalkane	No, if you want hacker phone + Qt then Android I guess looks best	22:03
djszapi	I agree	22:03
ZogG_laptop	so no advice on how to integrate filepicker or image chooser ?	22:04
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if the dead pixels produce some poison, either literally in the LC liquid (electrolytic corrosion) or in the electric domain like causing overvoltage on the row- or col-select lines		22:06
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RST38h	!!!! http://gizmodo.com/5866626/the-shit-tablet-apple-thinks-samsung-should-have-made !!!!	22:17
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RST38h	(if you are eating, beware of throw-up capacity of this link)	22:17
b3ll	when using a QML Audio Element, does one need to do anything other than set the source to access its metadata?	22:19
ZogG_laptop	hmmhmm there are gtk parts in meego =)	22:22
ZogG_laptop	i thought it was fully qt	22:22
ZogG_laptop	RST38h: it's funny how i can see left and right part at the same time	22:24
ZogG_laptop	like tabled is bended	22:24
ZogG_laptop	i mean the side parts	22:24
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Qantourisc	I wonder ... now that N9 / nokia is going to be scrabbed ... what hardware will the software run on late r?	22:37
Qantourisc	If Intel keeps backing it up ... i believe though	22:41
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gabriel9	hai guys	22:49
gabriel9	anyone have source of file manager beta	22:50
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gri	gabriel9: nope but it's easy to get the qml files even if they are compiled into the application	22:52
gri	but you can't get the code of the c++ part	22:52
gabriel9	thats ok	22:53
gabriel9	i'm intersted in layout	22:53
gabriel9	and freaking header :D	22:54
gabriel9	how are you gri?	22:54
gabriel9	:)	22:54
gri	well friday is my free day so I'm pretty fine :)	22:55
gabriel9	good for you, i must work for weekend	22:55
gri	yeah, tomorrow is also less free ... have to help a friend moving to another city and stay there	22:56
Venemo	hey	22:56
gabriel9	Hai Venemo	22:58
gabriel9	gri, if there some drinks and something to eat that kind of job can be interesting	22:58
djszapi	Venemo: o/	22:59
gri	gabriel9: 4th floor without elevator :)	23:00
gabriel9	naked	23:00
gabriel9	:D	23:00
gabriel9	sorry i searched history of irc	23:00
gabriel9	gri, that is not fun :D	23:01
gabriel9	i hope he call someone else also	23:01
gabriel9	i moved alot, and also helped lots of friends	23:01
gri	we're about 10 people so that should be enough	23:01
gabriel9	that will be easy	23:01
gabriel9	Venemo, as i recall you develop IRC client	23:03
gabriel9	do you have new build	23:03
Venemo	gabriel9, not yet, why?	23:05
Venemo	hey djszapi :)	23:05
gabriel9	becouse i am to lazy to enter all data :D	23:05
djszapi	Venemo: how are you today ? :)	23:06
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gabriel9	i can't belive that every blog write about Lumnia	23:08
gri	gabriel9: I can't believe that all those bloggers copy from each other :P	23:09
gabriel9	yea that's true	23:10
gabriel9	are they geting monney for they rants	23:10
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Venemo	djszapi, fine, thanks! I've slept a lot, so I'm starting to feel rested	23:16
gri	my application is stalled in ovi qa they say o_O	23:17
gri	for some reason they believe they need a german sim card for doing qa	23:17
ajalkane	lol	23:17
ajalkane	that's what you get for doing a german translation :P	23:17
djszapi	Venemo: :D nice./	23:17
gri	ajalkane: Well I assumed they don't check that since today I found an application in ovi store whose german description is totally nonsense - the author must have translated it with some online translator	23:18
ajalkane	gri: they probably only check if there is a translation to the language. Dunno.	23:19
gri	I wrote an email to the author and told him he should better remove this translation because it's better to have an english one instead of that nonsense german. No reply yet :)	23:20
DocScrutinizer	http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/openmode_kernel_PR1.1/	23:28
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GeneralAntilles	Endless duplicate text messages are a nice feature.	23:37
Venemo	GeneralAntilles, reboot the N9	23:41
Venemo	GeneralAntilles, my N950 also behaved that way, but the duplicates disappeared after a reboot	23:42
Richlv	for the record, i unbricked my n9.	23:43
Richlv	this crappy hp laptop didn't want to boot any usb stick, so eventually i got a person with a dell laptop & ubuntu on it to run the flasher	23:44
Richlv	it was reading the fw from a usb stick & was pretty slow, but did finish all 100% of rootfs and the phone did boot. so i have my toy back and can try to break it again ;)	23:44
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Venemo	Richlv, congrats :)	23:55
* gri feels like my application is not welcome in ovi store		23:56
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Richlv	Venemo, thanks :)	23:59
Richlv	although i haven't found a way to backup apps and reinstall afterwards w/o downloading again	23:59
Richlv	is that possible ?	23:59

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