IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2011-12-09

RichlvDocScrutinizer, hmm, haven't had problems with using various other usb devices, though. will try some different ports, just in case. cable is the n9 original one00:00
jonniso guess charge to 100% and then hope for the best00:00
Richlvit doesn't turn on now (just shos the nokia logo every now and then) - does it charge in that state ?00:01
DocScrutinizeralso blacklisting ehci_hcd (or was it ohci_hcd) might help00:01
RichlvDocScrutinizer, ha. i blacklisted phonet & cdc_phonet, but didn't try that yet - thanks for another idea00:01
DocScrutinizerbasically forcing the USB to 1.100:01
Richlvmaybe making it usb1 only will succeed at slower speeds...00:01
jonniif there is that small led showing then its charging00:01
Richlvok, that's at least some leads there :)00:01
Richlvno, different usb ports don't help00:02
djszapiRichlv: you are trying on windows ?00:03
Richlvno, opensuse 11.400:03
djszapitry windows00:03
Richlvdon't have them :)00:03
djszapisome people were not able to do these things on Linux, just Windows. Anyway, you have phonet unloaded ?00:04
Richlvunloading was not enough, had to blacklist (it got loaded all the time)00:05
Richlvboth phonet & cdc_phonet have been blacklisted00:05
djszapiunloading should be okay without reboot for a try00:05
djszapibut at any rate, I would go for windows00:05
Richlvit loaded those two whenever i would plug n9 in00:06
Richlvwell, no windows for me since win2k :)00:06
djszapinot even among your family members or friends ?00:06
Richlvi'm abroad ;)00:07
djszapior work, student colleagues and so on00:07
djszapiso you do not have friends abroad ? ;)00:07
Richlvheh, well, i'd like to get it going tonight, if possible00:07
Richlvwill try to blacklist ehci_hcd now00:07
djszapifrankly, I would also just boot an archlinux usb iso00:08
djszapifor a try since that is as minimal as possible without the full desktop thingie00:08
Richlvalthough lsmod didn't show anything containing hci00:08
djszapiand archlinux has been working for ages here.00:08
Richlvok, that's another idea on the list then :)00:09
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Corsacdjszapi: by coworkers?00:20
Corsacha no, by Jed00:21
Corsactbh it's a bit noisy on this bug00:21
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javispedroZogG_laptop: fmradio and bt might work when using a2dp00:29
Richlvhuh. got in dmesg : usbfs: usb_submit_urb returned -12100:31
Richlvquick search turns up stuff like "It is a bug in libusb.  It is caused by interaction with a kernel00:31
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Richlvyeah, "The data read from the endpoint did not fill the specified buffer, and URB_SHORT_NOT_OK was set in urb->transfer_flags."00:33
Richlvnot sure whether it's directly connected, though00:33
javispedroit could be because of an old libusb bug too, though.00:34
Richlvthis one, i guess00:34
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Richlv"Changed 3 days ago" - huh00:34
MohammadAGTo upgrade or not to upgrade00:36
MohammadAGCame with 22-600:36
javispedroMohammadAG: ah, congratulations on your new paperweight^W N950!!00:36
javispedroso it did not explode I guess,00:36
javispedrodammit ;P00:36
MohammadAGNo but the USB cable was outside the package00:37
javispedrolook for government mandated windows trojans on ~/MyDocs00:37
MohammadAGCarrierIQ? :p00:37
MohammadAGI forgot how smooth this thing is tbh00:38
MohammadAGWay smoother than all iDevices00:38
nibblerMohammadAG: yeah, i like the finish. much friendlier feeling to the hand than the greasy iSurfaces.00:39
javispedroit's funny00:39
MohammadAGI'm talking about the UI00:39
javispedroI'm now realizing I have little fingerprint marks on the n95000:39
javispedrocompared to the mess that is my touchpad's screen by now.00:40
nibbleroh. scusi. wearing my ID head right now :)00:40
MohammadAGSO should I upgrade?00:40
MohammadAGOh it supports OTA now00:40
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MohammadAGI remember having to reflash to change eMMC at some point though00:41
javispedrobeta2 is nice00:41
MohammadAGAh aegis, I missed you00:41
javispedrothe problem is pr1.100:41
javispedrono open mode so far00:41
MohammadAGIs beta2 still somewhere?00:42
MohammadAGHmm, what's 2.2011.39-500:42
javispedroseemingly not, I get 40400:42
javispedropr1.1 iirc00:42
MohammadAGBeta2 is the one that needed hacks for open mode roght?00:43
MohammadAGThe one that removed developer edition00:43
javispedroI don't remember when the developer edition branding disappeared, if that's what you asking..00:44
javispedroI think beta200:44
arcean_MohammadAG: beta 2 is available on DocScrutinizer server:
MohammadAGWell I think I still have beta2 on my hdd00:44
javispedrohah, Doc to the rescue!00:44
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: got it?00:45
MohammadAGBeta2 is 34-2 right?00:46
MohammadAGK time to update then00:47
ZogG_laptopjs that used for aml is javascript right?00:48
MohammadAGGoodbye iTunes, hello N95000:50
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ZogG_laptopthan why the f i get error on working script from some example!!!!00:51
MohammadAGRemind me if the N950 checks battery level ob flashing00:53
ZogG_laptopif it does it does it for reason00:53
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ZogG_laptopgabriel9: sup my man00:54
MohammadAGLinux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin correct?00:54
gabriel9i write drom N900:55
javispedroMohammadAG: yes, it does checkbattery, and yes, that is beta2.00:55
MohammadAGjavispedro, remember what charge percentage it needs?00:55
MohammadAGthink I'm on 2000:55
ZogG_laptopvar fd = new FormData(); - what is wrong in that?00:55
javispedroMohammadAG: i'd let it charge, if something goes wrong you'd run it down quickly.00:56
ZogG_laptopit eould be funny if you need to resend it00:56
MohammadAGhello long charging times00:56
javispedrolong charging times?00:56
MohammadAGthe iPhone charges from 0 to 100 in an hour or less00:56
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: n9 is 3000 in israel already i think 6gb00:56
MohammadAGthis shows estimated time 122 minutes00:57
MohammadAGfrom 22 to 10000:57
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG depends on charger the nokias one charge fast00:57
javispedronever less than 2 hours thoug00:57
ZogG_laptopconnect it with wires to uotlet =)00:57
MohammadAGthis is the Nokia charger...00:57
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ZogG_laptopi have american charger with adapter to our outlets00:58
ZogG_laptopcharge fast00:58
javispedroaround 120 minutes too00:58
javispedroI find the one hour mark pretty much unbelievable00:59
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javispedrounless maybe the battery on the ipod has less capacity?01:00
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MohammadAGjavispedro, iPhone01:03
MohammadAGI have an iPhone, iPod and iPad01:03
* javispedro trembles01:04
MohammadAGthe iPhone charges in 1 hour if I turn off 3G and Wifi01:04
MohammadAGand lock the screen01:04
MohammadAGand if I leave it overnight without being charged, with all those turned off, it goes from 100 to 9901:04
MohammadAGthe battery life on these things is unbelievably long01:04
MohammadAGI removed the iPad off the charger today at 401:05
MohammadAGnow it's 1AM01:05
MohammadAGit's down to 9501:05
MohammadAGone question though01:06
MohammadAGboth the iPhone and the N950 have smooth scrolling the web browser01:06
MohammadAGbut in landscape mode, both of them have different acceleration in both sides01:06
MohammadAGthe right sides accelerates faster than the left one01:06
MohammadAGso there's a wave effect01:06
mgedminactual scrolling, or rendering tiles?01:08
mgedmintearing maybe? I never noticed01:08
MohammadAGmgedmin, got a facebook?01:08
MohammadAGit's very visible on m.facebook.com01:09
MohammadAG(again, in landscape mode)01:09
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MohammadAGBattery level 42 %, continuing.01:12
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MohammadAGhow long does this take again?01:24
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javispedroaround half an hour01:25
javispedroif, after having experienced iOS you suddenly feel the urge to throw any maemo device against the wall remember that my n950 has around 240 dead pixels and that I am looking for a replacement :)01:26
javispedrohypothetically speaking only, of course.01:26
MohammadAGthe iPhone probably has 240 more pixels the N950's screen, I cans end you the pixels if you want01:27
javispedroIPS ? :)01:28
MohammadAGjavispedro, ask for a replacement?01:29
MohammadAGNokia does the replacement stuff quite quickly01:29
* MohammadAG picks up iPhone, looks for whatsapp XMPP password in filesystem01:29
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javispedroIt seemed like ... abuse ... back when it was 20px, but it's been growing :)01:31
* javispedro fires up email01:32
MohammadAGflashing finished quickly01:34
MohammadAGmuch quicker than iPhone fw flashing01:34
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: you have some fun with my new subdir on cloud-7 ?01:41
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yes, hope you don't mind I download the iso :)01:41
javispedroI booted the kernel, and it works01:41
javispedrobut the problem with aegisfs is way more visible now01:41
DocScrutinizerit's there for download :-D01:41
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: great, first confirmation that this kernel at least _works_01:42
javispedroafter reboot you are asked for all of your account passwords, if you fail any of them, the account is deleted =)01:42
DocScrutinizerjoy of TC01:42
DocScrutinizerso this means aegisfs is not even readable in openmode now?01:43
DocScrutinizerdang, took them a while to get things sorted01:43
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javispedrodidn't test it very hard, I rebooted inmediately to see the damage01:43
javispedrothe accounts that were deleted are indeed gone01:43
javispedrobut the rest seems normal01:44
DocScrutinizerthanks to $Nokia_the_reasonable_part_of_it for making all this happen01:44
DocScrutinizerI feel with you and your pain to maintain a borked concept of "security"01:45
* javispedro nods01:45
DocScrutinizerand I appreciate all the reasonable effort from inside $Nokia to compensate the damage done01:46
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DocScrutinizerwhen N9 becomes a success story, it's your story, not "theirs"01:47
DocScrutinizerthere's simply no "third party software that requires a safe execution environment." that would blow fruitphone out of the water. But there's a vivid hacker community that appreciates your make_it_happen regarding really cool stuff that will be noticed by "joe luser" as well01:50
DocScrutinizere.g hostmode01:50
DocScrutinizer"no uSD external slot? well, don't worry, just plug in a cardreader and start up H-E-N"01:51
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MohammadAGnow, I forgot how to import my contacts01:54
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MohammadAGgot used to iTunes and iCloud always doing it automatically01:54
DocScrutinizerthe answer to the android desaster regarding malware apps is NOT an aegified OVI store. The answer is "hey luser! LISTEN! DO *NOT* install random shit from $random sources! Only use safe-app-installer to get new apps" --- done01:54
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DocScrutinizer~rape MohammadAG01:55
* infobot takes MohammadAG behind the WallMart and makes a few grunts and screams01:55
MohammadAGno seriously01:56
MohammadAGhow do I import contacts :p01:56
javispedroDocScrutinizer: users don't listen01:57
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: so we don't listen to them01:57
javispedroMohammadAG: Nokia has Ovi Contacts01:57
javispedroMohammadAG: it's like iCloud, only they did it earlier :)01:57
javispedrothen they closed it01:57
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MohammadAGiCloud has no match01:57
MohammadAGit's the most awesomest concept ever01:57
DocScrutinizerI Cry loud?01:58
* MohammadAG hides01:58
MohammadAGno but really, the fact you can backup your device automatically + nightly and keep your contacts in sync with all your devices with one single ID is awesome01:58
MohammadAGApple does Single Sign On well for its devices01:58
javispedroPalm called it synergy01:58
MohammadAGiMessage needs to be reversed01:58
MohammadAGbefore whatsapp iUsers' expire01:59
* javispedro has to admit these cloud things work well, but would never trust the "backup" part.01:59
MohammadAGjavispedro, restore always fails due to jailbreak :P01:59
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: you can download contcs via bluetoth01:59
DocScrutinizerthe question is: how do I survive Friday on a XP environment that doesn't allow any cool tools as they're not certified by company's security evaluation process01:59
javispedroMohammadAG: it's not unheard than one misaction happened to delete all of the contacts on the "cloud" plus all the backups, then proceeded to propagate the change amongst all devices =)01:59
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: whatsapp is reversed01:59
MohammadAGjavispedro, but the fact that I update my contact on my iPhone and pick up my iPad and find it updated is awesome01:59
javispedroMohammadAG: there's this for contacts on the N9 actually02:00
ZogG_laptopcheck the meego forum02:00
MohammadAGor when I take a photo on the iPhone, it appears on the iPad02:00
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MohammadAGor when I purchase/download an app, it downloads on all three devices02:00
MohammadAGall this is instant02:00
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, you have to admit, this isn't on any other device02:01
* DocScrutinizer got a $home at some box with a fixed IP02:01
javispedroMohammadAG: on Palm it was called synergy =)02:01
MohammadAGit's very seamless02:01
MohammadAGjavispedro, and Nokia?02:01
MohammadAGovi notifications, you better be as good as iOS's push notifications02:02
javispedrono idea, but as I said, I was surprised to find my contacts were already on the device once02:02
* DocScrutinizer yawns like a dog, utters some curses to make whole Redmond go to hell, and heads off to fridge to find some snack02:02
javispedro(so they must come from the ovi/nokia account)02:02
javispedroDocScrutinizer: install a virus!02:02
DocScrutinizerI'm not a crasher, I'm a hacker02:03
DocScrutinizerand STE starts to appreciate that02:03
javispedroSTE is ?02:03
javispedrothe one I know... ?02:03
javispedroericsson I mean?02:03
DocScrutinizeraccess to *all* the sources02:04
javispedrowoah, congratulations02:04
javispedroand they force you to XP? :P02:04
DocScrutinizerlet's see how long they tolerate a freal like me02:05
DocScrutinizeryep, they do02:05
DocScrutinizerClearCase, SourceInsight, Eclipse, lots of proprietary stuff to wrap all that up02:06
DocScrutinizerFF forbidden02:06
javispedroEclipse is not :)02:06
DocScrutinizeroutlook mandatory02:06
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: you got me wrong02:06
javispedro(unless you are using some of the IBM $CRAP, which you probably are -- seeing ClearCase)02:06
DocScrutinizereclipse is wrapped up in ODE (c) ste, and that is integrated into CC, and around CC there's another proprietary wrapper02:07
DocScrutinizerand yes, there's an IBM thing around too02:08
DocScrutinizera real PITA to make your email work in a useful way, when you have to use outlook and that server thing from redmond I always forget the name02:09
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DocScrutinizerkeeping threads in one folder is an unknown and almost unimplementable concept on outlook02:10
DocScrutinizersetting up filters is causing almost instant nausea02:11
DocScrutinizeryou can move all sent mails to inbox folder, but you got no "mark as read" on rules for outbound   X-P02:12
DocScrutinizerbut I have to say I like their concept of building software stacks for their LTE stuff. Pretty good tutorials about everything, a clean nice architecture, everything like "dbus based"02:15
DocScrutinizerhaven't seen a similarly good concept elsewhere so far02:15
MohammadAGthen clearly you haven't seen iOS!02:16
* MohammadAG runs far far away02:16
MohammadAGsteve hated public transportation02:17
javispedroI think I will soon have to use protective goggles everytime MohammadAG talks about iOS02:17
MohammadAGthere is no dbus equivalent02:17
jabissetting up a single vps for incoming mail was the smartest thing I ever did02:17
DocScrutinizeractually Apple has also good whitepapers and howto02:17
javispedronot to catch some virulent apple disease02:17
MohammadAGtheir docs are good02:17
jabistho that would incline I'm stupid x)02:17
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MohammadAGand the number of iSheep means development can pay good02:17
MohammadAGI'm also surprised at some game copies on the app store02:18
javispedrojabis: doing that (vps and redirect all my mail to it) is on my todo list02:18
mostyis there a way to force a refresh of application icons? sometimes when i install or upgrade packages the icon is missing. after a while it fixes itself. "xdg-icon-resource forceupdate" doesn't appear to do anything02:18
MohammadAGangry chickens and cake ninja to name a few02:18
javispedrojabis: do you use anykind of OSS webmail server?02:18
javispedroMohammadAG: angry nerds is best02:19
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: 70% of mobile devices worldwide are using the software stack I'm working on now (or one of the siblings/predecessors)02:19
javispedroMohammadAG: someone should really make a "Angry Nerds vs Evil iSheeps" game02:19
* MohammadAG runs again02:19
MohammadAGjavispedro, fuckin brilliant02:19
javispedroI'd love throwing Android users using a slingshots towards blue jean black jersey zealots02:20
jabisjavispedro: I've got two vps instances - the other one to receive and filter - and the nother for actually housing it :)02:20
javispedropsst, too expensive for me :)02:21
jabis*housing the remaining - spam = 0%02:21
jabisevery now and then I freak and have a looki at the spamfilter (90days of shiz) and usually there is nothing of interest02:21
MohammadAGKDE is way too slow at file processing02:23
jabisjavispedro: I pay ~120e/year for the whole shebang - ~50 domains with email-relays via mysql & postfix02:23
MohammadAGoh and one more thing02:24
MohammadAGiOS is unix based right?02:24
MohammadAGunix has a mount concept02:24
javispedrojabis: where? (out of curiosity, still way too expensive)02:24
MohammadAGiOS can copy multiple items over USB at the same time02:24
MohammadAGbut still, you can access the eMMC equivalent while copying the files02:24
MohammadAGso it's not MTP (simultaneous copying), and it's not mass storage02:25
MohammadAGwtf is it02:25
jabisjavispedro: I find it really cheap (49euro/month for local hosting in finland)02:25
jabisjavispedro: bluemilecloud dot something today - it was 5bean when I took the first backup boxes from them02:25
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: OBEX02:26
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I fear it's a custom protocol02:26
javispedroMohammadAG: ??02:26
javispedroMohammadAG: you mean using iTunes and ONLY iTunes?02:26
mostyhas anyone else had problems with application icons not being updated properly in harmattan?02:26
MohammadAGwhen you connect an iPhone02:26
MohammadAGyou get the DCIM  folder exported as a camera device02:26
MohammadAGsimilar to MTP02:26
MohammadAGbut you can do multiple file-copying02:27
MohammadAGsomething MTP can't do02:27
javispedroit can't?02:27
jabismosty, sounds like an upgrade gone to shit for me02:27
MohammadAGwasn't that a huge issue of the Nexus Prime?02:27
MohammadAGor Galaxy Nexus, or whatever it got called02:27
jabismosty, you have developer mode on?02:27
MohammadAGbut still, iTunes can handle music copying02:28
MohammadAGand the filesystem is live on iOS02:28
mostyjabis, yes i have developer mode on02:28
MohammadAGfyi the iPhone can show how much of the song has been copied over02:28
jabisjavispedro: oh btw - depending on what you need, I could be of service :)02:28
javispedrothe MTP protocol does support transfering multiple objects02:29
MohammadAGjavispedro, at the same time?02:29
MohammadAGafaik it queues copying02:29
javispedro_the protocol_02:29
javispedroI don't know about any implementation tbh02:29
mostyjabis, it doesn't always happen, and i have checked that the correct icon is in place. i can't figure out what is wrong, nor how it eventually fixes itself02:29
DocScrutinizermeh, n8 folks02:29
jabismosty, you haven't for example copied a fewhundred megabytes of stuff to MyDocs? :)02:30
jabismosty, the indexing wizard is a freaky peace of software (imo) that could result in the momentarily loss of icons (indexed pieces of .ico/png)02:31
mostyjabis, not as part of the .deb package. i have a bunch of mp3s and stuff in there though02:32
jabisDocScrutinizer: howdy :)02:32
DocScrutinizerbtw, feel free to spread the word about
DocScrutinizeron FMC, whatever02:33
jabis8 days without IRC and I feel like a relic x)02:33
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jabiswhich phone is that for?02:34
jabis950 *stupid*02:34
mostyjabis, do you know what the indexing wizard is called, or where i can find documentation on it?02:34
jabismosty, afaik NOKIA closed source, so nowhere02:35
mostyjabis, i have seen similar issues on the meego tablet UX previously02:36
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jabismosty, you can test it by cut-paste your mp3s out of the device, and then back - you can't play a song in the library before the indexing "wizard" has touched the file02:37
mostyjabis, i'll try that out02:37
jabisalso a malformed png will break the rest of the icons as far as I've tested - until you reset the order02:38
DocScrutinizerjabis: EH??02:40
mostythe png appears to be valid, works everywhere i have checked it except in meego/harmattan ui's02:40
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jabisDoc, packed an image that was ~57% ready and it broke the rest of the images, and after 3 or so minutes rebooted my N9 - could replicate a few times02:42
DocScrutinizerjabis: sorry, I'm still with *my* topic02:42
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jabisDocScrutinizer: np x)02:43
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DocScrutinizerI just see stupid questions02:44
jabisDoc, you can't blame the people for stupid questions - you can only give stupid answers ^^02:45
jabismosty: sorry - I'm beginning to get drunk, but what exactly breaks when you deploy the application?02:47
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jabisyou just dont see the icon or?02:48
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mostyjabis, the application works fine. it's just that on some devices the icon appears as a red square in the application list (or isn't updated to the new icon if we installed a new one). and then at some later point the icon is fixed.  sometimes a reboot fixes it, sometimes not. and on some devices the icon always appears as it should02:49
DocScrutinizerjabis: I can refuse to give any answer, and refrain from blaming anybody. After all it's your device that either uns open mode or secure mode, and if you don't care, why should I? just publicly attributing it "stupid" is pissing me off02:49
DocScrutinizeresp since it'S plain wrong02:49
mostyjabis, the red square seems to appear after the first install of the package, never when upgrading02:50
mostybut as i said, this doesn't happen on all devices, some work fine02:50
DocScrutinizer950 *stupid*? NAH, jabis *stupid*02:50
jabisDoc, I was just asking which platform was that on - and blamed myself stupid for not looking at the url x) dood - you're too deep into this - which IS why I love ya ^^02:51
mostyjabis, if i edit the .desktop file and specify a icon that doesn't exist, it shows a red square. so it seems there is some buggy icon caching going on02:52
DocScrutinizer   [2011-12-09 00:41:35] <javispedro> I booted the kernel, and it works02:54
* javispedro is now confused too02:54
jabismosty, do you have a .harmattan_desktop there as well02:54
javispedroDocScrutinizer: he assumed a N9. I tested on a N950.02:54
javispedrodunno about the N9. Remember I don't have one.02:55
DocScrutinizerwell, the kernel probably works on both platforms anyway02:55
javispedroI am not even sure we even have the same version these days.02:55
javispedrobut yes, if we are, then it should work02:55
javispedroalso for some reason n9 users don't get the warranty prompt02:56
jabisPR1.1 on N9 was the same as beta 3 on 950?02:56
DocScrutinizer+- a day02:56
* javispedro nods02:56
javispedro... which is I'm not sure we have the same kernel version...02:56
jabisI don't have a 950 tho I have a devel N9 so all the rules bound don't affect me x)02:57
javispedromaybe I should ask DDP guys to send me a N9 instead of another N950 :)02:57
* DocScrutinizer calls it a day, and hits the sack to start in 4h to try and bring all of you folks awesome (free?) LTE sticks and modules in the future02:58
javispedroDocScrutinizer: haha, hope so!02:58
jabisyou do that ^^02:58
jabisDocScrutinizer: and publicly I attributed myself as stupid - you'll see it tomo when you read them logs X)03:01
jabistho I may not be - but that's another topic >.<03:02
mostyjabis, no- what is a .harmattan_desktop file?03:02
jabismosty, app_harmattan.desktop03:04
jabisit shouldn't've been generated by qtcreator03:04
jabis(if you used such a thing that is)03:05
mostyi don't use qtcreator. anyway there is no such file on my test device03:05
ZogG_laptopok who can help me with qml?03:05
jabisI believe the description lies somewhere in the Nokia Store entry reqs03:06
jabisZogG, you hate me still? x)03:06
jabisfor being right x)03:06
ZogG_laptopjabis: why?03:06
ZogG_laptopjabis: remind me03:06
jabisI've been awal for at least 10 days - but because of something x)03:07
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ZogG_laptopi have toolbar declared in main.qml and i have label declared in other.qml03:12
ZogG_laptopmain.qml loads declare as part of it03:12
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ZogG_laptopbut when i do set onclicked for toolbar"test"); it doesn't work03:13
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merlin1991anybody know why if every update of the apps for meego app I get that silly update icon thingy in my launcher?03:14
jabisZogG_laptop: you're prolly hooking to the wrong native event *guessing game*03:16
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jabismerlin1991: every update will pop "down" :)03:17
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merlin1991no I mean, is there going to be an update when it doesn't come and pollute my launcher?03:33
merlin1991the only way I know to get rid of it is to remove the app, and reinstall the newest version03:33
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javispedrothe license for the windows metro app store specifically mentions Open Source apps04:04
javispedroand is actually NOT bashing them, but rather giving them nearly carte blanche04:05
javispedro"... if you include FOSS, your license terms may conflict with the limitations set forth in Section 3 of those Terms, but only to the extent required by the FOSS that you use." ...04:05
SpeedEvilwow indeed04:05
SpeedEvilThey don't limit the licence to one of the normal set?04:06
ieatlintMS isn't anti-FOSS, they're just not active supporters04:06
javispedrowell in the phone world they are quite antiFOSS04:06
javispedrothis is for the desktop btw, I see I failed to mention it04:07
luke-jrSpeedEvil: they define it as OSI-approved04:07
SpeedEvilah - makes sense04:07
javispedroah, it's just one sentence after that =)04:08
luke-jrjavispedro: it makes sense though04:08
luke-jrjavispedro: it is another step toward DRM world04:08
javispedro"“FOSS” means any software licensed under an Open Source Initiative Approved License."04:08
ieatlinti can't say i've looked enough at wp7 to really say if i agree they're anti-FOSS there04:08
javispedroieatlint: they mention the GPL.... and explicitly forbid it.04:09
ieatlinthaha, nice04:09
ieatlintthat's good, i was starting to miss the old MS04:09
ieatlinti've had to just concentrate my hate on apple04:09
javispedroin the wp7 store dev agreement: "Excluded Licenses include, but are not limited to the GPLv3 Licenses."04:10
luke-jrjavispedro: DRM requires that04:11
luke-jrDRM and GPLv3 are fundamentally incompatible.04:11
javispedrothe way it is implemented, also incompatible with the GPLv2 and v1.04:12
ieatlintok, i should leave work04:12
luke-jrjavispedro: yes04:15
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z720hmm.. after try with open kernel from N9 cannot back to live after reboot. 1st state N9 boot open kernel without issues, without installing anything just play with some apps and reboot. N9 die, now need to reflash.07:51
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dm8tbrI think that aligns with what I heard about previous such experiments07:53
dm8tbrdevice MALFs after booting back into secure mode07:53
z720hate to reflash coz need to reinstall everything. sigh..07:56
z720any idea how to autorun installation on needed apps for 1st boot?07:57
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jonniz720: did you got malf screen?08:02
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jonniand whats there error message in malf?08:03
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DocScrutinizeryep, MALF is basically inevitable08:03
jonnimalf should only happen if you edit files that are protected08:04
DocScrutinizerand esp when you flash openmode kernel it shouldn't malf on second boot08:05
z720Device not working properly. Try updating the device software with Nokia Software Updater.... bla..blas..08:05
DocScrutinizerblabla is NO FILE on N908:06
DocScrutinizeror doesn't MALF screen show the detailed error msg anymore?08:07
jonniz720: did you flash it or used "-l -b -k"?08:07
z720only that Nokia msg08:07
z720use -l -b -k08:07
DocScrutinizerusually it displays the content of /var/malf which is some filename08:08
z720now the problem N9 fail to boot, how to get into /var/malf ?08:09
jonniyou can remove malf by hand, and check the same file to see what caused it08:11
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z720jonni: let me try08:12
z720I'm using linux mint, found errors in dmesg "[24287.740585] usb 1-1.2: new high speed USB device number 23 using ehci_hcd08:14
z720[24302.797094] usb 1-1.2: device descriptor read/64, error -110"08:14
z720N9 partition does not turn up08:14
z720usb 1-1.2: device not accepting address 25, error -11008:15
jonnimaybe try different usb port or something08:15
DocScrutinizerblacklist ehci_hcd08:15
z720after added to blacklist.conf, dont need to reboot system right?08:22
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DocScrutinizerread the URL above08:25
DocScrutinizerit doesn't work always, but it easy to test and quite likely to cure a certain class of problems08:26
z720i think that idea is to disable usb2.0 and force it to usb1 right? and does not work on thinkpad W510. after unbind that USB port is disabled.08:28
DocScrutinizermodprobe ohci_hcd, or uhci_hcd?08:30
z720thinkpad W510 too advance, let me try HP PC. :)08:31
jonniI have W510, sometimes usb ports just get screwed up, and I just switch the cable to different port :)08:32
jonnior reboot the machine :)08:32
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z720same err with HP "device descriptor read/64, error -110"08:43
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griwhat's the best way to execute a certain action every 24 hours but not on 00:00 (cron)? syncfw? something different?09:54
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MohammadAGgri, timed?09:56
SputMohammadAG: re contacts, there's some cli tool installed on the n9 that imports vcs files09:56
MohammadAGor QTimer :P09:56
Sputvcsimporter or somesuch09:56
* MohammadAG grumbles, ssh isn't installed09:57
MohammadAGI forgot beta2 turned off developer mode09:57
Sputthe contacts app also can export to vcs, which is a nice way to backup contacts09:57
Sput"turned off developer mode"?09:57
griMohammadAG: is there some documentation about timed?09:57
Sputssh is still there :)09:57
MohammadAGSput, developer mode is turned off by default09:58
MohammadAGwhereas it was on on beta109:58
Sputah, by default, yes09:58
MohammadAGgri, not sure, I'll google around09:58
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MohammadAGhmm, timed is open o_O09:58
Stskeepsyeah, it's in meego09:59
MohammadAGholy shit10:05
MohammadAGit imported my contacts from my Nokia account10:05
MohammadAG+1 there10:05
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griMohammadAG: thank you10:06
griMohammadAG: the nokia conacts also saved me once when I accidentally deleted all10:06
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MohammadAGheh, developer-mode postinst or whatever triggers a reboot10:08
griwithout a warning, that's quite cool :)10:10
Kaadlajk_there is a warning10:11
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MohammadAGwasn't the ssh password rootme?10:17
MohammadAGit doesn't work :/10:18
secyritashasnt work for me either after pr1.210:18
secyritassomething changed...10:18
MohammadAGI'm on beta2, it should work fine10:18
MohammadAGhmm, /me checks ssh config10:19
yipdwthe SDK connection application sets up a developer account with a six-character password, and binds sshd to either the wlan or USB interfaces10:19
yipdwat which point rootme is the password for devel-su10:20
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yipdwat least, that worked forme10:20
MohammadAG# Authentication:10:22
MohammadAGLoginGraceTime 12010:22
MohammadAGPermitRootLogin no10:22
MohammadAGStrictModes yes10:22
the-bossMohammadAG: Error: "Authentication:" is not a valid command.10:22
MohammadAGoh nice, we have a bot10:22
MohammadAG# help10:22
the-bossMohammadAG: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.10:22
X-FadeMohammadAG: Yeah, that is ours. :)10:22
MohammadAGlike a boss10:23
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gabriel9Venemo> ping10:41
djszapiVenemo is not here ?10:42
gabriel9hm i see now10:44
gabriel9i didi not see that his post was in history10:45
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ZogG_laptopgabriel9: u are history10:48
grivenemo has left ~14 hours ago :)10:49
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gabriel9oh man10:51
gabriel9i was not watching on time10:51
gabriel9i'm all numb, coding last night till 4PM10:52
ZogG_laptopX-Fade ping10:52
X-FadeZogG_laptop: pong10:53
ZogG_laptopsecyritas: 1.2?10:53
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ZogG_laptopX-Fade: sup11:08
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: last time u disapeared i wanted to ask you to add me too11:08
X-FadeZogG_laptop: Sure, will do.11:09
ZogG_laptopright now making my first app on meego11:09
ZogG_laptopgoing slowly but one day i'll be proud to upload it =)11:09
X-FadeHehe :P11:10
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: thnks11:10
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: btw when i switch to testing mode on site and press newest it throughs me back to stable apps =)11:16
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X-FadeZogG_laptop: Yes, that is not context aware yet.11:18
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: and about QA i think main question is missed. e.g. there is nice app. it works fine as far as i see... but it has random crashes, but there is nowhere in question releated question11:20
X-FadeZogG_laptop: Random crashes is not something you can really give a good weight to though.11:21
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, I don't support closed source when it's done by someone11:22
MohammadAGif you reversed something, release it, it's not your code to keep it closed11:22
MohammadAGor at least explain the protocol so others' work will be easier11:22
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: i think QA should be integrated with author as well so he can improve if he really wants it in stable. as well as end user i wouldn't like crashing app in stable11:25
X-FadeSure, that would be nice.11:27
SputMohammadAG: you have to deploy the ssh keys via QtSDK in order to make passwordless login work11:35
MohammadAGSput, done that11:36
Sputthen it should just work11:37
Sput(user "developer")11:37
Sputit's probably a good thing too to not have a root-enabled sshd with a well-known password layng around :)11:38
MohammadAGit is working lol11:38
MohammadAGlogging in as root is disabled in sshd config11:38
Sputthat's what changed in one of the firmware updates :)11:38
ZogG_laptophmmm anyway root there lack of most common thing11:39
ZogG_laptopi can't even do chown11:39
Sputyeah, the root account is pretty limited11:40
ZogG_laptopit is, the first check was "sudo make me sandwich"11:41
tommaanyone have any idea how i can set usb0 to get ip using dhcp?11:49
tommasetting changing static from /etc/network/interfaces to dhcp didn't work11:50
MohammadAGk, sociality needs a lot of work11:52
MohammadAGmainly, needs threading(!!!)11:52
MohammadAGMTF widgets construct slower than Qt ones11:52
ZogG_laptoptomma on pc?11:56
ZogG_laptopif so read meamo wiki about it11:56
ZogG_laptopi think it has it there11:56
rantomAnyone else getting duplicate/triplacate alarms when using Calendar?12:00
rantomNot sure yet is it an issue with Google/CalDAV or with Harmattan itself12:01
X-FadeI've seen it at least. With a google synced calendar.12:01
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, ping12:03
MohammadAGor anyone familiar with the N9/5012:03
DocScrutinizer51at work12:04
MohammadAGdoes the screen generates interrupts when double tapping it, or is it simply kept on?12:04
MohammadAGit's a y/n12:04
rantom(Minor clarification: I get one alarm with two entries [which I find odd] for the upcoming event. Time is right, the two entries just don't make sense. After that I get another alarm when the event starts, which I've yet to find out why it's sent)12:04
DocScrutinizer51ping me now+6h12:04
X-FadeMohammadAG: Screen and capacitive driver are 2 diferent things I guess :)12:05
tommaZogG_laptop, no harmattan device12:06
tommai have dhcp server running and i want device to get ip for usb networking from it12:07
ZogG_laptoptomma: sdk -> usb -> setting -> use dhcp12:10
tommathat sets device to work as dhcp server12:10
ZogG_laptoptomma: no, you can't set harmattan to be dhcpd12:11
ZogG_laptopas far as i know12:11
ZogG_laptopwhat do you want to do genaraly?12:11
tommawhat i want is that when i plug device to laptop, it asks ip from laptop using dhcp12:12
tommanot other way around as it is by default12:13
tommait works if i do it manualy by using udhcpc12:13
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ZogG_laptoptomma: have you changed config of network and have youu donne if-usb up?12:18
MohammadAGsigh, why are iOS's APIs better than MTFs12:18
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X-FadeDoes anyone want to help out testing a few apps in Apps Testing? I would be good to get more apps in Apps proper. (And test out the promotions)12:25
X-FadePlease fill in the QA forms for the apps in:
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* dm8tbr will take a look12:34
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matrixxX-Fade: I updated description of my package, but the update didn't propage to, is this expected?12:44
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matrixxI resubmitted the package to testing, and I can see in afo that the new version is in, but still with the old description12:45
X-Fadematrixx: Need to check. btw, it is better to always change your version number when you change something in your package.12:45
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matrixxX-Fade: I'll do that next time12:46
X-Fadematrixx: Due to that debian packages are never supposed to change, they get cached for a long time. This will give you all kinds of weird issues when you change a package and not increment.12:46
matrixxI didn't change anything in the package itself, just the description field in cobs12:47
X-Fadematrixx: Hmm yeah, that is an odd case :)12:47
secyritasZogG_laptop: ah, 1.1 >_<12:48
dm8tbrwhoa, the AFO app looks much cooler than NokiaStore :D12:48
X-Fadedm8tbr: of course, what did you expect?12:48
matrixxI needed to include a warning, cause changing theme might yield to corrupted IM emoticons12:48
* dm8tbr just installed theme changer and the two themes12:50
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matrixxdm8tbr: notice the above warning if changing between themes12:56
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cos^does anyone else have problem that phone randomly asks for facebook u&p?13:27
cos^might be linked to simultaneously using fb in browser13:27
matrixxcos^: I do13:27
matrixxcos^: same with twitter and some email accounts13:27
cos^good. hope they fix it..13:27
matrixxcos^: yeah, it's a known issue and already fixed13:27
cos^..and i guess nokia is releasing it sometimes next year with next SSU13:29
cos^i wonder why they don't use normal package management to update apps without SSU13:29
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ShadikkaI think mine has asked.. once or so13:30
ShadikkaDidn't think of it, really *shrug*13:30
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Ans5idifferent web sites might also have different policies when those are re-asked13:31
cos^it would be horrible user experience if they would re-ask them at all on a phone13:32
MohammadAGmatrixx, is that a bug?13:32
MohammadAGI remember changing themes in the widgets gallery once13:33
MohammadAGX-Fade, may I suggest having the screenshots stop at the next screen shot13:34
X-FadeMohammadAG: What, where? :)13:34
MohammadAGX-Fade, product view in the appsformeego app :p13:35
MohammadAGa fast swipe goes through all screenshots13:35
X-FadeMohammadAG: Yes, and a slow one doesn't? :)13:35
X-FadeMohammadAG: That is the whole idea of kinetic scrolling?13:36
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matrixxcos^: I think it's this bug:
MohammadAGeither that or don't make them loop13:37
MohammadAGhow do I nuke the device update notification13:37
MohammadAGX-Fade, ideally, screenshots shouldn't have kinetic scrolling13:38
MohammadAGin the gallery, when you swipe quickly it still takes to you to the next screenshot13:38
X-FadeMohammadAG: I think we got other things to worry about, really :)13:38
MohammadAGor in the main view, swiping takes you to the next view, doesn't loop through all 3 views :)13:38
MohammadAGanyway, yeah, minor details13:38
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MohammadAGbesides that it seems to work well13:39
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X-FadeI'd rather get commenting, rating and community QA implemented in the app first.13:39
MohammadAGX-Fade, a tick next to installed apps would also be helpful when the software catalogue gets large13:39
cos^matrixx: yep, that's it. great.13:40
X-FadeMohammadAG: You mean show installed status?13:40
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MohammadAGdon't you have an API for that?13:43
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MohammadAGX-Fade, yes13:46
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djszapiHi! Is there such a list for Android somewhere, if anybody knows ? I would like to make a comparison what hackers can do on Harmattan in comparison with that.13:46
X-FadeMohammadAG: The app keeps a database locally with installed status.13:47
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djszapisnowpong: -> Have you seen such a list for Android ?13:47
matrixxMohammadAG: yeah, I think it's a bug in themedaemon, need to investigate a bit more13:47
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snowpongdjszapi: you mean for apps, or for developers hacking on a non rooted device or?13:49
djszapisnowpong: I guess that page expresses they would like to root the device.13:50
snowpongdjszapi: this is the list of android permissions an app can ask for at least13:52
djszapisnowpong: so they probably complain about that, it is not N90013:52
MohammadAGX-Fade, but the app doesn't show it13:53
djszapisnowpong: Can I replace system components ?13:53
snowpongdjszapi: no wouldn't think so on a non-rooted device, replacing or overwriting them are probably not supported13:54
snowpongdjszapi: but the code for ICS is out there, and I believe people have rebuilt it and flashed their own versions13:55
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X-FadeMohammadAG: Only when you are in the details page.13:55
X-FadeMohammadAG: Not in the listing though,.13:55
MohammadAGX-Fade, yeah, that's what I meant13:56
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snowpongdjszapi: <- like these people seem to do13:56
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djszapisnowpong: warranty void then ?13:57
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snowpongdjszapi: yes13:57
javispedrosending a package to finland = ~100€13:58
Stskeepsjavispedro: what, are you mailbombing?13:58
w00texplosives cost extra13:58
MohammadAGcost me 50 bucks to ship, two days shipping13:59
Stskeepsw00t: i should be worried that i thought the same thing..13:59
javispedroMohammadAG, which company?13:59
javispedroStskeeps, not unless the battery decides to explode13:59
w00tStskeeps: or we just admit we're both battlescarred13:59
djszapisnowpong: do they detect the warranty void if you reflash the stock kernel again ?13:59
MohammadAGdjszapi, android?13:59
MohammadAGandroid has a kernel flash counter14:00
snowpongdjszapi: probably not, but would you have access to it?14:00
MohammadAGyes, you can unpack the stock image to get the kernel14:00
MohammadAGthe Galaxy SII shows a ! icon at bootup with a custom kernel14:00
snowpongdjszapi: if you just play "dumb" at the service center I don't think they'd notice or care :)14:00
MohammadAGa way around it is to flash the custom kernel, then the stock one, then flash the custom one in userland14:00
MohammadAGbut that increases flash count to 314:00
MohammadAGyou can buy a jig off ebay that resets that counter though14:01
snowpongMohammadAG: there is a flash count they can read? didn't know that14:01
djszapiI thought the simplest solution is a write-only chip14:02
djszapibut probably not that cheap solution :P14:02
javispedroDHL also wants to charge me 100euro14:03
MohammadAGjavispedro, what about Israel?14:03
MohammadAGdjszapi, a simpler solution is not to give a fuck14:03
javispedroMohammadAG, I actually tried out of curiosity: "price can not be calculated."14:03
javispedroI guess if that is an euphemism for "astronomical"14:04
infobotjavispedro meant: I guess  that is an euphemism for "astronomical"14:04
X-Fadejavispedro: Can't you just use your local post service?14:06
X-Fadejavispedro: Crazy buggers :)14:06
X-Fadejavispedro: They'd charge me about 12 eur for that.14:07
javispedroThere must be some kind of gravity well between me and Finland14:07
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X-Fadejavispedro: Warranty return or what?14:08
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* javispedro googles around14:09
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X-Fadejavispedro: Maybe, you can send it to a local branch?14:11
MohammadAGyou familiar with all MTF classes?14:11
djszapiMohammadAG: flash counter is not enough unless the customer service zeroes that out after a reflash.14:13
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djszapiand even in that case, it is not enough if there is such an application zeroing the flash counter.14:14
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javispedroMohammadAG, nope  :)14:14
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MohammadAGjavispedro, I need something like
MohammadAGdjszapi, ^14:17
djszapisnowpong: mmm, it does not use general linux credentials and capabilities ?14:17
MohammadAGa list with a draggable handle to rearrange cells14:17
TermanaMohammadAG, I hear you can pick something like that up for about $80014:18
MohammadAGTermana, you ever tried to sing They see me trollin14:19
MohammadAGalso javispedro is the lockscreen part of protected aegis files?14:20
MohammadAGI need music controls on the lockscreen and afaik the new FW has it14:20
MohammadAGI'm so awesome14:22
MohammadAGmcompositor crashed so I had to kill it, but the keyboard won't show, but it still worked14:23
MohammadAGso I typed on an invisible onscreen keyboard14:23
snowpongdjszapi: no14:23
javispedroMohammadAG, yes, I'd think so14:23
djszapisnowpong: interesting, so they wrapped it. That is an interesting approach.14:23
MohammadAGjavispedro, djszapi and the cells?14:23
frals"crashed so i had to kill it"... how does smth crash without dying?14:23
MohammadAGfrals, high CPU usage, it didn't show the keyboard/render windows well14:24
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: 5 min14:24
fralsdoesnt sounds like a crash ;)14:24
djszapifrals: for instance if they caught the exception and run a process with some system command in the background :P14:24
snowpongdjszapi: well, most apps for android are written in java/dalvik - so no wonder they wrapped it14:25
DocScrutinizer51..then I go back to OC tasks ;-D14:25
MohammadAGfrals, same question goes for you :P14:25
djszapisnowpong: one reason I could mention for dropping the general linux credentials and capabilities, if they fine tune them more, and they say it is not granular enough for instnce.14:25
MohammadAGI need something like
DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: 4min availability left14:27
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, does the screen generate double tap interrupts or is it simply not disabled?14:27
javispedroisn't the accelerometer the one doing the double tap thing14:28
DocScrutinizer51I dunno for sure but think the touch controller detects a 'gesture'14:28
DocScrutinizer51it could do14:28
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MohammadAGjavispedro, no14:29
MohammadAGdouble tap the front camera14:29
DocScrutinizer51but unlock dt is sensed by ts14:29
MohammadAGso it's something that can't be done on the N900 right?14:29
MohammadAGat the same technical level14:29
Stskeepssure it's not the accelerometer instead?14:29
DocScrutinizer51and I think by ts-controller14:29
MohammadAGStskeeps, very sure14:29
MohammadAGStskeeps, double tap the N950's bezel14:30
MohammadAGit won't unlock14:30
DocScrutinizer51doubletap screen with pencil14:30
X-FadeMohammadAG: Try this. Lock screen. Press with one finger hard(ish) on middle of screen while phone is on table. Then use another finger to tap twice on the screen.14:30
X-FadeMohammadAG: You'll then notice that it needs really hard tapping for it to wake up :)14:31
DocScrutinizer51this proves what?14:31
DocScrutinizer51afk bbl - 4min expired14:32
X-FadeTHat it is accel based?14:32
MohammadAGX-Fade, surely you meant isn't14:32
* javispedro concurs with X-Fade's observation14:33
X-FadeMohammadAG: It is, because I can't then wake up the phone with light tapping. But can with very hard.14:33
javispedroThis happened to me several times14:33
DocScrutinizer51check your IRQs14:33
MohammadAGyou don't have to press hard14:34
DocScrutinizer51will tell14:34
javispedroAnother observation is that it is easier to unlock with the device on the hand than with the device on a table14:34
MohammadAGyou're just using multitouch, which doesn't work in this case14:34
DocScrutinizer51javispedro: body gnd'ed14:34
MohammadAGthe accelerometer exists in the device14:34
MohammadAGnot under the screen14:34
javispedroDocScrutinizer, ah, good point14:34
MohammadAGotherwise why does tapping the bezel not unlock the device?14:34
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MohammadAGor even better14:35
MohammadAGget a hammer and double smash14:35
MohammadAGit won't unlock14:35
javispedroit will also fix my dead pixels14:35
MohammadAGgives me ideas if I get that second N950...14:36
javispedrofinally, someone shipping this thing for ~30eur14:36
MohammadAGcan that someone calculate shipping to israel?14:36
javispedronah, it's a local company14:36
javispedroah, shipping TO14:36
javispedroMohammadAG, same price as to finland14:37
djszapijavispedro: what would you like to ship ?14:38
MohammadAGdoes the fine print include "Package may be held in customs indefinitely"?14:38
javispedrodjszapi, the n95014:38
javispedrodjszapi, for repairs only, I still didn't give up on aegis =)14:39
djszapijavispedro: heh14:40
djszapiheh, android has a "Brick" credential for requesting =)14:44
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djszapisnowpong: are there android security experts on android-dev for helping ? It would be nice to have a discusssion with them at some point =)14:52
MohammadAGI'm interested in what would come out of the discussion14:58
djszapibetter understanding of their security architecture and implementation.15:00
snowpongdjszapi: you mean qt for android, or just android?15:02
djszapisnowpong: the security in general which also  takes effect on qt applications.15:03
snowpongdjszapi: not sure, I'm sure you'd get some good answers though, that or some less official modding mailinglists15:06
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djszapisnowpong: can you flash your device also on Mac and Linux ? Are there software updaters like that on those operating systems ?15:37
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ZogG_N9i build package for n9, installed it, where it goes? as icon doesnt start it15:41
djszapiicon does not start, huh ? What do you mean ?15:41
djszapired icon on the applauncher screen or what ?15:42
ZogG_N9normal one15:42
ZogG_N9qt synbol as i choosed at qtxreator15:42
ZogG_N9if i build it to harmattan target it starts on phone15:43
ZogG_N9now a build package and no go15:43
djszapi heh15:43
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ZogG_N9btw packages i build from creator are still in /opt even after uninstall15:46
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djszapidid you make a purge uninstall ?15:47
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snowpongdjszapi: it seems you can flash it from your phone completely
ZogG_N9nope just with uninstall from icon15:53
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ZogG_laptop but shouldn't it do that?15:53
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djszapiZogG_laptop: you should always debug it, right ? :) So try from cli for verification...15:57
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: yeah but where is it in cli? i found /opt/my-app but that's old one15:58
ZogG_laptopmaybe my desktop file is broken? should it create one properly by itself>15:58
ZogG_laptopand if not where i need to set it right?15:59
ZogG_laptopas well as where i can change icon?15:59
djszapiso is there an app in Ovi for rooting the phone ? :D16:00
djszapiZogG_laptop: after the installation, try: dpkg -P your_package16:00
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djszapibut first make sure, the installation went fine from command line.16:05
ZogG_laptopbefore that i changed icon maunally16:09
ZogG_laptophow do i add it to be installed?16:09
djszapitbh, I do not understand what you do :)16:10
MohammadAGoh nice16:12
MohammadAGmy expensive AKG headphones don't work on the N95016:12
MohammadAGfucking apple plug16:12
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i made app with qtcreator16:14
ZogG_laptopbut qtcreator is stupd16:14
djszapiI told ya to remove qtcreator from your workflow :P16:14
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: letme start slowly, as i don't know qt or qml the autocomplete is good for me16:15
ZogG_laptopand simulator16:15
ZogG_laptopfuck now i get error on that #ifdef HARMATTAN_BOOSTER16:15
ZogG_laptop#include <MDeclarativeCache>16:15
the-bossZogG_laptop: Error: "include" is not a valid command.16:15
the-bossZogG_laptop: Error: "endif" is not a valid command.16:15
jonniMohammadAG: atleast I bought the connectivity kit for my AKG's it had nokia plug too.16:16
ZogG_laptopfor no reason16:16
MohammadAGjonni, huh?16:16
MohammadAGjonni, these are the ones I have
MohammadAG<ZogG_laptop> but qtcreator is stupd16:17
MohammadAGblame the dev, not the tool16:17
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griZogG_laptop, djszapi: for me qtcreator works well :)16:20
jonniah, I have AKG K480 NC, so I got the following for connecting it to my phone16:21
djszapigri: because you never tried cmake for instance.16:21
gridjszapi: sure but if you use qmake it works as you wish16:22
* djszapi does not have any ideas how to development something using cmake for Symbian16:22
djszapigri: I think qmake is the worst part of Qt ever :P16:23
djszapigri: it would not scale for my project at all. It would be a pain to get qmake work for that.16:23
grifor my needs it works perfectly16:23
grithe company I worked switched to qmake since the old system was much more crappy16:23
djszapiand scratchbox works for everything, so that is why I do not use a partially working system :)16:23
griso for me it's an improvement :)16:24
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ZogG_laptopgri: how do u add your own icon?16:32
griZogG_laptop: the package icon or the launcher one?16:32
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: the reason it didn't start i had to change desktop exec =\16:32
djszapiZogG_laptop: you need to use absolute paths16:32
ZogG_laptopgri: launcher16:32
djszapiexec ?16:33
griZogG_laptop: like djszapi said, Icon=/some/relative/path in your .desktop file16:33
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: it used Exec=/usr/bin/invoker --type=d -s /opt/workIN/bin/workIN16:33
grior a file name but then you icon must be inside the theme dir and the phone needs a reboot - not recommended16:33
ZogG_laptopgri: yeah but how do i install icon with deb?16:33
griZogG_laptop: install steps?16:33
djszapiZogG_laptop: debian/*-data.install16:34
djszapior just along with the binary's package, as in: debian/yourpackage.install16:34
grilike you install anything else with qmake16:34
ZogG_laptopi never used qmake16:35
griok then I have no idea :)16:35
ZogG_laptopgri i mean i bet qtcretor use it16:36
ZogG_laptopbut i don't know how to use it manually16:36
ZogG_laptopso i can add those to and it would be used?16:36
griif you change the file names and maybe the paths fitting to your project16:36
ZogG_laptopshouldn't i use /usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/apps/ for iconpath?16:37
griyes, you should use this16:37
griI need the icons in theme dir for some other reason16:38
djszapinot neccesarily.16:38
djszapimany apps use 64x6416:38
griyou can also change to files property to a wildcard like "qmlfiles.files = $$files(*.qml)"16:40
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ZogG_laptop ls -l  /usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/apps/ |grep img16:44
ZogG_laptop-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          3113 Dec  9  2011 imgur80.png16:44
griZogG_laptop: So that's working? or not the expected result? :)16:50
djszapisnowpong: you can get those credentials you sent in the link only from android market or already on your phone ?16:53
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griZogG_laptop: You do know that there's a typo in the Icon= line?16:54
ZogG_laptopIcon=/usr/share/icons/hicolor/80x80/apps/imgrup80.pnggri obv no, where?16:55
griimgrup <<16:55
ZogG_laptopadmn pasted by mistake16:55
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snowpongdjszapi: it doesn't matter if the app came from the market or you installed it via usb locally of from some other url directly - but android market apps are the only installable ones by default on a phone, you have to explicitly allow non-market apps to be installed17:02
djszapisnowpong: there is some developer mode there, or you can be granted by those credentials if you allow the non-market apps to be installed ?17:05
ZogG_laptopgri thanks worked flawless =)17:05
ZogG_laptopnow i need to reslove one think with toolbar and beta of beta of alpha is ready =)17:05
djszapiZogG_laptop: and then you can drop qtcreator :)17:16
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: lowly slowly17:23
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i started to do the project in vim actually17:24
MohammadAGdjszapi, it's a toggle in settings17:25
MohammadAGmuch like the N917:25
ZogG_laptopif i have text element in qml that is long sentense how do i do that it automaticly align words17:25
MohammadAG"Allow installation on non-Market applications"17:25
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MohammadAGdjszapi, I find aegis less useful that Qt Creator, so that probably has to be dropped first17:26
* javispedro waves to his n95017:30
Piruwait. I'm fairly sure I instaled my own app while that option wasn't enabled17:31
PiruI did use dpkg -i though17:31
javispedroyou had dev mode enabled17:31
ZogG_laptopok i have text area, but hoow do i set color than?17:31
javispedroPiru: that option only changes behaviour of the UI17:31
Piruoh right. that explains it17:31
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djszapiMohammadAG: I will paint you an aegis fan t-shirt ;) ;)17:39
MohammadAGdjszapi, I prefer printed t-shirts :P17:41
leinirfinger-painted, and then shrunk before shipped out, so it doesn't fit MohammadAG - much like aegis itself, hmm! ;)17:41
* leinir runs off ;)17:41
leinir(to make tea, in fact ;) )17:42
djszapiMohammadAG: printed is come on ... not my work :)17:43
djszapibtw, of course you can get the printed aegis fan t-shirt too :)17:45
djszapiMohammadAG: so you dislike the android secfw too ?17:47
MohammadAGdjszapi, one of the reasons I hate android17:48
MohammadAGbefore I even knew about Aegis17:48
MohammadAGHarmattan/MeeGo weren't announced17:48
MohammadAGI tried dmesg on android phone17:48
MohammadAGit returned Operation not permitteed17:48
MohammadAGbut at least, it allows me to replace system APKs and edit config files without MALFing17:48
djszapiwhat is APK ?17:48
MohammadAGthink rpm but worse :P17:49
MohammadAGAndroid PacKage17:49
djszapiaye, you cannot do that on android either17:49
MohammadAGyou can17:49
djszapithat was mentioned above when I asked.17:49
MohammadAGI have a Galaxy SII17:49
javispedroonce jailbroken I guess17:49
MohammadAGAPKs can be installed from anywhere when you toggle the err, toggle, in settings17:50
MohammadAGPiracy on Android for example doesn't require any sort of rooting17:50
javispedroMohammadAG: installing APKs from anywhere is one thing, allowing you to replace system ones is another thing17:50
MohammadAGI'm fairly sure I replaced my Phone.apk...17:50
javispedrothe only mobile platform that doesn't allow you to install "packages from anywhere" at this point is ... iOS.17:51
javispedroeven WP7, after you pay that Chevron Tax thing, allows you to do so.17:51
MohammadAGand the only platform that has APIs but doesn't allow you to use them is... Harmattan17:51
javispedros/has APIs/has documented APIs/ ;)17:52
djszapiyeah, but iOS and Android are not well-knownly dead17:52
javispedrothat might also be the case in WP7, as the WinCE APIs are documented but forbidden17:52
djszapiMohammadAG: so the above answer was wrong ?17:53
djszapithat I got ?17:53
* djszapi still wonders what the use case is for the "Brick" credential =)17:53
javispedrowhat would be jailbreaking for if you could replace system components at your pleasure?17:53
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djszapiso which is the most undocumented API on Harmattan ? I vote for accounts for instance.17:58
javispedroheh, that one is heavily undocumented indeed.17:59
javispedroI also think that policy manager could get some N9-specific docs18:00
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djszapiThe android security does not defend against high-rate calls either. That is not a wonder for me though. Interestingly enough, they have separate credentials for writing and sending s.m.s. messages.18:01
javispedroI still think that the N9 aegis policy is very coarse grained18:06
djszapidefinitely, and it is annoying because It would not have been the biggest part of the job to make it nice. Imho, just a very little attention from app and platform devs.18:07
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DocScrutinizer51MohammadAG: so you found out about who's sensing doubletap?18:22
infobotDocScrutinizer51: aw, gee18:23
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, nothing to find out, it's the screen18:40
MohammadAGdjszapi, I'm almost sure I did replace the apk yes18:41
MohammadAGI could be wrong though18:41
djszapiI have the same question then as javispedro asked.18:41
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djszapigri: have you tried to write a plain password plugin based accounts-ui plugin ?18:43
gridjszapi: I did write my own, did not even try libaccounts-ui18:44
gribut plain password based should be realizable with the .provider xml only18:46
djszapigri: it does not seem so to me from the "Other mails" plugin.18:47
djszapiat least they do some hackery over there. Also, I would probably as many different authentications as many provider files, I think.18:47
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kkitoall my emoticons are screwed uo after installing themechanger? Anyone knows how to fix it?18:53
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gridjszapi: what exactly do you try? Do you use SignOn::Identity directly?19:02
djszapiI am not trying anything. I do not still understand how the existing plugins work19:02
djszapibut they for surely do not just use the provider files.19:02
griwell saving a password is quite simple19:03
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griyou create an Accounts::Account* instance, create an SignOn::Identity* instance, fill that instance with information like the username, password and store the credentials which then get an id, the id is stored in the account instance - that's all19:04
griif you want to get them back, you have to create a session on Identity*19:04
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djszapithat does not seem to be what others do19:05
grisure it is19:06
grithat's my code19:06
djszapi"others" as in builtin plugins19:06
griand I took about the same code from libaccounts-ui19:06
djszapilibaccounts-ui is not a libaccounts-ui plugin19:06
griit is19:06
grihowever it's named correctly19:07
djszapiactually, you plugin is even more difficult than needed.19:07
djszapino, the builtin plugins are not open source as far as I know.19:08
djszapiat least most of them.19:08
griin theory the plugins just inheric the GenericAccountSetupContext of libaccounts-ui19:08
griand add custom storing functions19:08
djszapi"just" ?19:09
kkitook, ive found how to fix the emoticons, it was problem with .emoticonthemecache19:09
djszapiThat is the whole work which can be from X lines to 1000000 :)19:09
gridjszapi: Nono :)19:09
gridjszapi: There's a function which reads some parts out of the xml19:09
djszapias I said previously, the authentication stuff is almost all the work along with the ui widgets19:10
griyou just have to add your private things like tokens no one should see19:10
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djszapiand depending on the difficult it can be from X lines to 10000000019:10
griyou asked for password plugins19:11
djszapiyes, and it is not providers file only.19:11
grithe other ones could work the same but might be more code19:11
djszapithis is not how the builtin plugins work19:11
djszapiit is way much more work than that.19:11
griyou can either define your identity in the .provider file OR in the code19:11
grinormal plugins seem to not use the .provider file19:12
grior builtin19:12
djszapiof course they do19:12
MohammadAGso, a playlist needs MafwPlaylist and another class19:13
MohammadAGbut I want to reorganize the list ffs19:13
kkitodjszapi, I dpnt know how the native plugins are done, but no one works properly19:13
MohammadAGMTF isn't that rich compared with Qt19:13
gridjszapi: they use the file but not the account-setup tag and others19:13
MohammadAGgri, they do19:13
djszapiMohammadAG: I should finalize my player on top of QtOpenAL :P19:13
MohammadAGat least skype does19:13
MohammadAGI don't want to use anything other than Mafw :P19:13
MohammadAGthat sucked on Fremantle, that's why I rewrote Nokia's player19:14
MohammadAGit ended up better than there's19:14
djszapiis it your wife or why not try something else ? :)19:14
MohammadAGtheirs ffs19:14
MohammadAGcause the policy system made it suck19:14
MohammadAGdjszapi, I fear at some point I'll rewrite Harmattan's player19:15
djszapiohh btw, we need to remove the video credential from unknown19:15
MohammadAGWHAT THE FUCK?!19:15
MohammadAG- To protect users from adult films, we removed the media capabilities of your device19:16
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, <djszapi> ohh btw, we need to remove the video credential from unknown19:16
djszapiMohammadAG: ahh so you wrote a fancy post for the votes :P19:16
MohammadAGdjszapi, huh19:17
MohammadAGdjszapi, no, I wrote this
DocScrutinizernever give power to tose who ask for it19:17
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: gimme power, gimme op :D19:17
DocScrutinizeras they most likely will abuse any power granted to them, tho compensate whatever complexes19:18
djszapiMohammadAG: Yeah, I know ;)19:18
MohammadAGregardless, Harmattan's players offered upgrades and regressions19:18
DocScrutinizerapplies esp for platsec19:18
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GeneralAntilleswebOS going open source, eh?21:07
Stskeepsseems so21:08
Stskeepswhat it means is a good question21:08
GeneralAntillesThe cynical part of me says "Doomed to irrelevancy and a slow death."21:08
GeneralAntillesReally hard to drum up real interest without slick devices.21:09
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ajalkaneThat's the only decent outcome for an already doomed OS21:11
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yipdwI wonder exactly what they're opening21:18
yipdwguess we'll find out21:18
yipdwall I see in their press release is "underlying code", which is a pretty vague category21:18
ajalkaneunderlying code? Okay, this could be bullshit then. "Here's the Linux kernel sources we're using, have fun!"21:19
yipdwyeah, I have no idea what it means; hopefully it includes the interesting bits like userspace21:19
ajalkaneit could be something like Harmattan, or even worse.21:20
yipdwI also wonder what Peter Skillman thinks of this, as IIRC he had a big hand in Harmattan and WebOS' designs21:20
yipdwtwo of your major projects abandoned and tossed aside :P21:20
ajalkaneI think he's pretty pissed off.21:20
Stskeepsat the end of the day, he did probably earn a lot of money21:21
ajalkaneI don't think he cares one way or the other about open source, but doing all that work and seeing it dumped... must be annoying.21:21
ajalkaneyeah, as pissed off as he may be, I'd like to switch places. I'm pissed off too, but without the money!21:21
yipdwI just see a lot of WebOS in Harmattan's design and it seems like it's the idea that just keeps getting killed21:22
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yipdwmaybe he'll try a third time and that'll be the charm21:22
ajalkaneThe N9 user interface ideas will live on with Meltemi21:22
yipdwI've heard about that, but nothing concrete21:23
yipdwdid I miss some code drop?21:23
ajalkaneNo, you'll see it in the fall of 2012 probably. Not the code drop, but the results.21:23
javispedroso I suggested the lecturer at the webos show in mwc 2011 they should opensource enyo21:25
javispedroand now they are opensourcing enyo?21:25
Stskeepsseems so21:25
javispedroneed to try my convincing suggestive powers on nokians...21:25
ajalkaneyou should get some consulting fee21:25
yipdwif you can get them to open up some of the account plugins, that'd be fantastic21:26
javispedroyipdw: half of them are libpurple21:26
djszapinot entirely.21:26
javispedro"half of them" ;P21:26
djszapinot entirely the half of them21:27
yipdwjavispedro: I know a lot of them just talk to telepathy, but the structure is something that still eludes me21:27
javispedronot telepathy, gaim21:27
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ZogG_laptophmm can someone tip example on explaine quickest way to load file or better is image21:27
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yipdwthough, gri's account plugins look like a good thing to study21:27
ZogG_laptopjavispedro: wanted to thank you btw for icon thng on website =)21:27
javispedroZogG_laptop: yw21:27
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* javispedro has just dropped his loan n950 in the post office and gets home to read enyo will be OSS21:28
* djszapi has not seen too much gaim there.21:28
djszapiyipdw: you do not wanna see the code, trust me :P21:28
ZogG_laptopthere is qutim for n9 btw if you interested21:28
djszapithey are sort of awkward imho21:28
ZogG_laptopit' alpha but working21:28
yipdwdjszapi: what's awkward -- the details or how it all fits together?21:29
yipdwif there's messy code in the details I don't care :P21:29
djszapiyipdw: the structure, the spaghetti and everything21:29
ZogG_laptopi'm orking on img uploader up21:29
ZogG_laptopworking* app*21:30
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javispedrodjszapi: libpurple is gaim's account abstraction library21:33
djszapijavispedro: I see no libpurple there.21:33
djszapimore or less tp21:33
javispedrops ax | grep purple ;)21:33
javispedroa few instances of /usr/bin/imlibpurpletransport21:33
djszapino phone at hands, sorry :)21:33
javispedroah, wait a moment21:34
javispedromy fault, I was talking about webOS =)21:34
javispedrobut you were talking about Harm21:34
javispedrosorry :)21:34
djszapiI thought webOS is dead21:34
djszapieverybody was saying that...21:35
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Clintdoesn't everybody say that about meego?21:35
djszapithough, the doom 3 code was also disclosed few days/weeks ago after 7-8 years :)21:35
javispedroit's as dead as harm... no devices in the pipeline, but new versions are planed21:35
javispedro(for existing devices)21:35
ajalkaneThis is a game changer. It's not anymore the war of ecosystems, it's the war of dead platforms!21:37
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: returning the 950? why?21:37
javispedroDocScrutinizer: dead pixels21:37
DocScrutinizerdefect or fed up with it?21:38
javispedroajalkane: be proud my child, be proud of your dead platforms!21:38
ajalkaneI have a like a blob of dead pixels on my N950 in the bottom21:38
ajalkaneI just can't let go of the device yet. But the dead pixels are spreading so I think I have to soon try getting it fixed if Nokia will21:39
grimy n950 display gets milky on the left side (and it's not dirty) :D21:39
javispedroajalkane: to me, it initially started as minuscule dot in the middle of the screen21:39
ZogG_laptopi don' have n95021:40
javispedroajalkane: in less than a month, it grown up to a sizeable monster21:40
ajalkanejavispedro: ah, middle of screen would be too annoying. For me it started bottom near right, then took a great horizontal line to the left, and started doing a blob there.21:40
javispedrono signs of stopping21:40
ajalkaneI think it's trying to build Windows Phone buttons to the bottom.21:40
javispedrowell, gtg, cya gentlemen21:41
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ZogG_laptopso any advise?21:45
djszapiadvice for what ?21:47
DocScrutinizerlemme check... seems we got 3..4 dead LCD on a sample of 350 devices, during first <6 months. I can see why they won't want to ever sell this N95021:50
fralsyeah.. thats how it works, right? ;)21:52
ajalkaneThe weird thing about this dead pixel thing, it's like a plague. If it starts somewhere, it starts spreading to neighboring cells.21:54
ajalkaneIt's like some ink was leaked inside, and it spreads slowly21:54
ajalkaneIt seems to like spreading more horizontally, and only occassionally penetrates the pixels vertically21:55
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SpeedEvilI wonder about cracks.21:57
SpeedEvilIt seems to be propagating from a common point21:57
SpeedEvilI wonder if it's physical damage at assembly or some point21:57
ajalkaneCould be... but I had the device for almost 4 months before it happened. So it's a bit weird.21:59
ajalkaneBut could be some physical damage at assembly, and with the falling temperatures in finland it started failing21:59
* djszapi is learning qmake blooeeeee21:59
ajalkaneqmake ftw!22:00
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djszapi:) so guys, sincerely. What is the successor of Harmattan, or at least the potential phone for Qt development, only Android ?22:01
ajalkaneTizen :-P22:01
ajalkaneBut seriously Android seems the only choice, unless you're excited about feature phone extravaganza of Meltemi22:01
djszapiI thought Finnish people are the most sincere,  but there always exceptions. ;)22:02
djszapiwell the Nokia feature phone will not be a hacker phone either22:02
djszapiand they are crazy about the deadlines. I mean... super crazy22:02
ajalkaneNo, if you want hacker phone + Qt then Android I guess looks best22:03
djszapiI agree22:03
ZogG_laptopso no advice on how to integrate filepicker or image chooser ?22:04
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* DocScrutinizer wonders if the dead pixels produce some poison, either literally in the LC liquid (electrolytic corrosion) or in the electric domain like causing overvoltage on the row- or col-select lines22:06
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RST38h!!!!  !!!!22:17
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RST38h(if you are eating, beware of throw-up capacity of this link)22:17
b3llwhen using a QML Audio Element, does one need to do anything other than set the source to access its metadata?22:19
ZogG_laptophmmhmm there are gtk parts in meego =)22:22
ZogG_laptopi thought it was fully qt22:22
ZogG_laptopRST38h: it's funny how i can see left and right part at the same time22:24
ZogG_laptoplike tabled is bended22:24
ZogG_laptopi mean the side parts22:24
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QantouriscI wonder ... now that N9 / nokia is going to be scrabbed ... what hardware will the software run on late r?22:37
QantouriscIf Intel keeps backing it up ... i believe though22:41
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gabriel9hai guys22:49
gabriel9anyone have source of file manager beta22:50
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grigabriel9: nope but it's easy to get the qml files even if they are compiled into the application22:52
gribut you can't get the code of the c++ part22:52
gabriel9thats ok22:53
gabriel9i'm intersted in layout22:53
gabriel9and freaking header :D22:54
gabriel9how are you gri?22:54
griwell friday is my free day so I'm pretty fine :)22:55
gabriel9good for you, i must work for weekend22:55
griyeah, tomorrow is also less free ... have to help a friend moving to another city and stay there22:56
gabriel9Hai Venemo22:58
gabriel9gri, if there some drinks and something to eat that kind of job can be interesting22:58
djszapiVenemo: o/22:59
grigabriel9: 4th floor without elevator :)23:00
gabriel9sorry i searched history of irc23:00
gabriel9gri, that is not fun :D23:01
gabriel9i hope he call someone else also23:01
gabriel9i moved alot, and also helped lots of friends23:01
griwe're about 10 people so that should be enough23:01
gabriel9that will be easy23:01
gabriel9Venemo, as i recall you develop IRC client23:03
gabriel9do you have new build23:03
Venemogabriel9, not yet, why?23:05
Venemohey djszapi :)23:05
gabriel9becouse i am to lazy to enter all data :D23:05
djszapiVenemo: how are you today ? :)23:06
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gabriel9i can't belive that every blog write about Lumnia23:08
grigabriel9: I can't believe that all those bloggers copy from each other :P23:09
gabriel9yea that's true23:10
gabriel9are they geting monney for they rants23:10
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Venemodjszapi, fine, thanks! I've slept a lot, so I'm starting to feel rested23:16
grimy application is stalled in ovi qa they say o_O23:17
grifor some reason they believe they need a german sim card for doing qa23:17
ajalkanethat's what you get for doing a german translation :P23:17
djszapiVenemo: :D nice./23:17
griajalkane: Well I assumed they don't check that since today I found an application in ovi store whose german description is totally nonsense - the author must have translated it with some online translator23:18
ajalkanegri: they probably only check if there is a translation to the language. Dunno.23:19
griI wrote an email to the author and told him he should better remove this translation because it's better to have an english one instead of that nonsense german. No reply yet :)23:20
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GeneralAntillesEndless duplicate text messages are a nice feature.23:37
VenemoGeneralAntilles, reboot the N923:41
VenemoGeneralAntilles, my N950 also behaved that way, but the duplicates disappeared after a reboot23:42
Richlvfor the record, i unbricked my n9.23:43
Richlvthis crappy hp laptop didn't want to boot any usb stick, so eventually i got a person with a dell laptop & ubuntu on it to run the flasher23:44
Richlvit was reading the fw from a usb stick & was pretty slow, but did finish all 100% of rootfs and the phone did boot. so i have my toy back and can try to break it again ;)23:44
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VenemoRichlv, congrats :)23:55
* gri feels like my application is not welcome in ovi store23:56
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RichlvVenemo, thanks :)23:59
Richlvalthough i haven't found a way to backup apps and reinstall afterwards w/o downloading again23:59
Richlvis that possible ?23:59

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