| GeneralAntilles | . . . | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| GeneralAntilles | Why would TI layout a keyboard on their calculator in ABC. . . | 00:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | What happened to QWERTY? | 00:10 |
| ajalkane | GeneralAntilles: QWERTY is quite illogical and a relic from the mechanical typewriters. ABC etc. makes more sense. Surely TI is a sensible company. | 00:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | QWERTY is illogical | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | (which is why I use Dvorak on devices where it makes sense) | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | However, my thumbs are already trained for QWERTY | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Retraining for ABC sucks. | 00:12 |
| ajalkane | DVORAK is tuned to english languages. The only logical, cross-language solution, is ABC. | 00:13 |
| javispedro | worse is better | 00:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | ajalkane, yes, well, I'm not planning on using anything but English on this thing. | 00:21 |
| ajalkane | I guess your complaint then should be "What happened to DVORAK" :-P | 00:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not asking silly questions. :) | 00:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Given that the target audience for these devices are students aged 12-21 | 00:23 |
| ajalkane | Seriously speaking, I'm kinda terrified of as a touch-typist that QWERTY layouts might be getting into the bin. | 00:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | and their PRIMARY mode of communication is through QWERTY thumb keyboards, well. . . . | 00:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no way QWERTY is going anywhere anytime soon. | 00:24 |
| ajalkane | With all the new pads and smartphones etc., and younger generations not needing such typing, it may be in 25 years QWERTY is a relic | 00:24 |
| javispedro | ajalkane: until the day Steve Jobs comes out of retirement and ships the iKeyboard with the AWESOME layout QWERTY is not going away | 00:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Man, how awesome would it be to be able to type awesome with one hand? | 00:25 |
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| ajalkane | Well, it's not going away overnight. But one generation is enough if they manage to push personal computers into fringe with all these new shitty replacements. | 00:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | By the time PCs are gone we'll all have retinal implants. | 00:26 |
| javispedro | with the AWESOME layout can also type incredible, beautiful, unbelievable, great, amazing, better, and easier with just one finger! | 00:26 |
| ajalkane | I sure as hell want to be hacking away on cutting edge hardware/software by my 90's on my retinal implants. | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Funny side-note: Deus Ex: HR has an awful lot of PCs floating around when retinal implants are cheap and accessible. | 00:26 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: That is coming. Technology to let you enter a whole word with one keystroke | 00:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, do you remember that Onion ivdeo? | 00:27 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: The vkbd easily fits on a 43" display | 00:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.theonion.com/video/apple-introduces-revolutionary-new-laptop-with-no,14299/ | 00:27 |
| rm_work | rofl yes, the one button laptop | 00:28 |
| rm_work | i loved that | 00:28 |
| alterego | DONE IT! | 00:28 |
| javispedro | yeah, had to see it again =) | 00:28 |
| alterego | Sweet, got qt multimedia -> zbar decoding bar codes :D | 00:29 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: hopefully a mainstream tech by the time I get that 43'' screen on my phone ;) | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I love the pricing structure | 00:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | $2,598 for 8GB | 00:30 |
| ajalkane | hehe, onion ones in a while manages to get a great laugh | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | $9,596 for 40GB | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | ajalkane, just once in a while? | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.theonion.com/video/sony-releases-new-stupid-piece-of-shit-that-doesnt,14309/ | 00:30 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - meh - paywalls. | 00:30 |
| alterego | Seems to be working much better now too .. | 00:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - I like the onion and all - but not enough to go without fruit for a month. | 00:31 |
| ajalkane | okay, onion makes me laugh more often than slashdot | 00:31 |
| ajalkane | are all the funny stuff nowadays in videos in onion? :) | 00:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | More of them. | 00:32 |
| ajalkane | I feel old. | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | The print stuff is still good, though. | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lotta of it US-centric. | 00:32 |
| ajalkane | I remember Onion was quite hilarious a decade or something like that ago. It's still good, but I rarely remember to read it. | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | ajalkane: Scotty:"computer!" <no answer> Pavel: "use the mouse, Scotty!" Scotty grabs mouse, holds it like a microphone, says in stern voice "Computer!"... | 00:34 |
| alterego | He actually says "Hello Computer" :) | 00:35 |
| javispedro | It's sad that's one of the few examples of someone getting right how computer interfaces change =) | 00:35 |
| alterego | That part always cracks me up | 00:35 |
| alterego | Hrm, now I need to generate my own QR code, hook this stuff to qml | 00:36 |
| alterego | And initiate an offline app caching | 00:36 |
| alterego | Then I have app download from qr code working :) | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | and hell, is any of us faster than Scotty on that (from his POV) prehistoric keyboard, when he sketches transparent Aluminium in <15s, with ~7342 keystrokes/minute? | 00:40 |
| * SpeedEvil looks at his boule of transparent aluminium. | 00:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer | actually it seems like his first 5 keystrokes reconfigure the UI of that program into hyper-shortcut mode | 00:42 |
| SpeedEvil | (sapphire) | 00:42 |
| ajalkane | They don't make Scotties like that anymore, RIP. | 00:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah :-/ | 00:42 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders why each $RANDOM 2D-barcode is caled QR-code nowadays | 00:44 | |
| alterego | your face | 00:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barcode#Matrix_.282D.29_barcodes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_Code | 00:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | you know true 3D-barcode is still one of the most promising storage technologies of the future? | 01:05 |
| ajalkane | But if the holographic principle holds true, maybe a 2d representations is the most promising approach of deep understanding of the 3D-barcode representation... It boggles the mind | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | no, the pseudo-3D of 2D holographics is just a special kind of magnifying glass. True 3D storage uses holographic techniques on volumetric storae media | 01:16 |
| ajalkane | I'm not sure which comes first, me in a wheelchair or that tech. | 01:17 |
| ajalkane | Actually me in a wheel chair is too easy a guess. But have humans visited Mars before 3D storage techs, that's a good puzzle. | 01:18 |
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| SpeedEvil | 3D storage exists now. | 01:32 |
| alterego | Looks like I*mve got a fair amount of work to do if I want access to raw video data, live using QtMobility. | 01:46 |
| alterego | Ah, think I know what I need to do now :) | 01:52 |
| * javispedro tries to understand what the magic fmrx opcode does | 01:59 | |
| javispedro | "0x3f 0x00 0xf3 0x88 0x01 0x01" | 01:59 |
| javispedro | pfft. | 01:59 |
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| GAN900 | Magic! | 02:23 |
| SpeedEvil | If you look at it in ascii, it's xyzzy | 02:25 |
| SpeedEvil | (not really) | 02:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://twitter.com/#!/joooe/status/110641702238294016 5.5 days of use on the MetaWatch. | 04:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/06/how-to-turn-a-spare-lcd-panel-into-a-working-monitor-for-33/ | 04:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want an iPhone 4 display for my keyboard. | 04:55 |
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| artemm | Looks like Sep 15 +- a day is going to be N9 sales start - http://t.co/sWsbsjR | 09:38 |
| artemm | in Finland | 09:39 |
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| dm8tbr | yeh, first public touch and all that | 09:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yawn | 10:15 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:29 |
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| lardman | morning Jaffa and everyone else | 11:33 |
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| faenil | Good morning everyooone :D | 11:41 |
| lcuk | morning \o | 11:41 |
| Venemo | hey :) | 11:42 |
| faenil | so any news since 3 days ago? | 11:43 |
| djszapi | faenil: everybody got a new software, but no more left :) | 11:43 |
| faenil | I had uni exams on 5th and 6th so I've been away :) | 11:43 |
| faenil | djszapi: aahahhah | 11:43 |
| faenil | djszapi: u joking, right? lol | 11:44 |
| faenil | javispedro: I am ready to test out the radio thing :) | 11:44 |
| faenil | I have read the forum post, but I'll wait for you if you need anything to be done | 11:45 |
| djszapi | faenil: he is not here ? | 11:45 |
| faenil | lol, did not even check, he's always here :D | 11:45 |
| faenil | well, I'm going to fix my bicycle then :) cya later :) | 11:46 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: we are out of new software? BS, they haven't even started with new software :P | 11:50 |
| Venemo | djszapi is particularly jokey about new sw, especially when I'm also on this channel :P | 11:51 |
| flux | venemo, so it could be said.. you're djszapi's muse? | 11:53 |
| Venemo | flux, I think he got mad because I said about a thousand times on this channel: | 11:54 |
| * Venemo wants new software for N950 | 11:54 | |
| Venemo | :P | 11:54 |
| djszapi | "C++0x will introduce the keyword constexpr, which allows the user to guarantee that a function or object constructor is a compile-time constant." -> mmm, this is good. | 11:54 |
| Venemo | lamdas are better | 11:55 |
| flux | djszapi, unfortunately the functions allows are quite limited. iirc recursion is prohibited ;). | 11:58 |
| flux | (s/allows/allowed/) | 11:59 |
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| djszapi | flux: I have never really seen a need for that, just that what it actually solves. | 11:59 |
| flux | djszapi, it would limit evaluating actual algorithms involving looping during compile time | 12:00 |
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| flux | ..of course, you can still use template magic for many things | 12:00 |
| djszapi | also, there is nothing written like that on the wikipage. | 12:00 |
| djszapi | not that I could put any rationale behind that claim. | 12:01 |
| flux | indeed it doesn't seem to mention lack of recursion, but I'm still pretty sure that limitation has been mentioned elsewhere | 12:02 |
| flux | I guess harmattan platform won't see constexpr for a while, though?-) | 12:03 |
| djszapi | also, templates were also improved a lot, for instance the external template anyways. | 12:03 |
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| kkito | hello | 13:30 |
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| kkito | Do you know if flash plugin from n900 is working in firefox for the n950? | 14:04 |
| djszapi | kkito no need for that, there is flash supported on newer images. | 14:05 |
| Arkenoi | djszapi, since which version? and does it work with builtin browser too? | 14:05 |
| Venemo_N950 | how can I copypaste in harmattan's terminal? | 14:06 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: you mean with grob ? | 14:06 |
| Arkenoi | yes | 14:08 |
| dm8tbr | http://shootspeak.com/2011/06/29/fennec-gives-nokia-n9-the-ability-to-display-flash-content/ | 14:09 |
| Venemo_N950 | also, how can I open a pdf in harmattan? | 14:09 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950 simple, "Documents". | 14:09 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, but it doesn't appear | 14:10 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, I wgeted it into MyDocs/Documents | 14:11 |
| dm8tbr | might need a rerun of tracker? | 14:11 |
| djszapi | "does not appear" is poor answer, isn't it ? :) | 14:11 |
| djszapi | dm8tbr: should not | 14:11 |
| Venemo_N950 | well, I can't see the pdf in the Documents app | 14:12 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: if a graphical app does not work, it is always a good practice to run it from cli | 14:12 |
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| Hq` | I think the tracker only runs when the device has been idle for some time, so try to wait for a while... | 14:19 |
| trx | any suggestions on how i can dynamically populate a Menu component with items? | 14:19 |
| kkito | djszapi: flash supported on harmattan newer images? | 14:19 |
| kkito | by the default webkit browser? | 14:20 |
| djszapi | kkito: please read the aforementioned link. | 14:21 |
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| DocScrutinizer | dunno if it's already known: devel-su - user; ln -fs /usr/share/applications/meego-terminal.desktop /home/user/.local/share/applications/quicklaunchbar3.desktop; # change quicklauncher (4 icons) nr.4 search to terminal | 14:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | takes effect instantly | 14:26 |
| RST38h | Doc: Do you by any chance know an easy method to find out what is holding given package back from upgrading? | 14:26 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, problem solved, and it was my fault | 14:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | i.e. no reboot or anything needed | 14:26 |
| RST38h | WHAT quicklaunchbar? I do not see any =) | 14:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | eh? | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: sorry about "holding back" - nfc | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | re "quicklaunchbar" - you're kidding, are you? | 14:28 |
| RST38h | not kidding. what is it? | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | the 4-icon thingie showing up when you slide up a little and hold e.g the lockscreen | 14:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | or contacts screen | 14:30 |
| RST38h | Ah really... | 14:31 |
| RST38h | never got that | 14:31 |
| * RST38h only using n950 for development so far | 14:31 | |
| matrixx | hidden secret | 14:32 |
| jreznik | it's very well hidden :) I know it only from presentations and took some time to realize that it works only when some app is on | 14:32 |
| leinir | quicklauncher's kinda nice :) | 14:33 |
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| djszapi | DocScrutinizer: yeah, that is known. :) | 14:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: ooh, so why didn't I find about it when searching FMC? | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe I shouldn't start another thread about it? | 14:35 |
| djszapi | not sure what you mean. | 14:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nm, posted it to FMC anyway | 14:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | bwahahaha wiki.meego.com search doesn't allow me to enter any searchtext | 14:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | obviously another case of "this site been optimized for firefox" | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry meego, I'm still not going to change to *your* favourite browser, so your site becomes usable | 14:46 |
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| Arkenoi | RST38h, iirc almostTI did keep state on fremantle? | 14:59 |
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| RST38h | Arkenoi: yes it did | 15:06 |
| Arkenoi | on harmattan it does not | 15:07 |
| Arkenoi | wow, and multiple instances are being open | 15:09 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: probably some aegis-related crap not letting it write into ~/.ati85 | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: or maybe it writes there on exit? | 15:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | (like xchat) | 15:10 |
| RST38h | Doc: And why is that bad? | 15:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | (for xchat it's a known effect you should stop the program after doing any config changes you want to stay) | 15:11 |
| hiemanshu | RST38h: if it closes due to an error, you loose all settings | 15:11 |
| RST38h | Doc: In AlmostTI, press [2nd] [OFF] | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | exactly | 15:12 |
| hiemanshu | or if you kill -9 or ^C | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | where "error" is a normal shitdown as well | 15:12 |
| RST38h | Doc: or press top right corner, either will exit the app | 15:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | shutdown LOL | 15:12 |
| RST38h | Doc,Arkenoi: I am more interested if AlmostTI works without Net connectivity | 15:12 |
| RST38h | Because the Nokia guy says it crashes when parsing .qml file | 15:13 |
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| djszapi | is there any way on forum.meego.com to get notification if my post got replied ? | 15:17 |
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| ajalkane | djszapi: you can get notifications for new replies on the topic. | 15:34 |
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| djszapi | ajalkane: how ? | 15:40 |
| ajalkane | djszapi: Thread tools -> Subscribe to this thread | 15:44 |
| djszapi | ajalkane: that will report only if I got a reply, and not all the posts in a long thread ? | 15:46 |
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| ajalkane | all posts in the topic. These forum softwares are poor at knowing its a reply to specific message (quick reply etc user related probs) | 15:50 |
| djszapi | too bad :( | 15:50 |
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| MohammadAG | The N950 warns you when storage is low, when you're recording a vid, that's a nice touch | 16:07 |
| MohammadAG | "10 minutes of video recording left, too low on storage" or something | 16:07 |
| MohammadAG | On battery low, it stops recording, that's bad, imo | 16:08 |
| macmaN | ehhh, thats weak | 16:17 |
| macmaN | real coders wouldve triggered aegis self destruct instead of a simple warning | 16:18 |
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| macmaN | stop recording NOW... or ELSE | 16:18 |
| * macmaN wants new N950 firmware | 16:18 | |
| macmaN | or how was it the saying goes here | 16:19 |
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| fiferboy | mgedmin, ping? | 18:17 |
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| djszapiN9 | hi fiferboy | 18:20 |
| fiferboy | djszapi, hi | 18:21 |
| fiferboy | djszapiN9, aegis defeated my phone the other day | 18:34 |
| fiferboy | And I didn't realize the one click flasher formats the user storage by default :( | 18:35 |
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| djszapi | fiferboy: what do you mean by "defeated" ? | 18:36 |
| RST38h | fiferboy: bricked? | 18:37 |
| fiferboy | I was poking at meego-im-uiserver and got the "device is malfunctioning" screen | 18:37 |
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| djszapi | fiferboy: I do not see anything related to "aegis defeated" yet. Could you please ellaborate why you said "aegis defeated" ? | 18:39 |
| djszapi | (malfunctioning is system-software/service matter how they handle things) | 18:39 |
| fiferboy | Is it no aegis that gives you the malfunctioning screen? | 18:39 |
| RST38h | BTW, what prevents one from building a new kernel that has aegis disabled? | 18:39 |
| RST38h | some kind of a flash lock? | 18:39 |
| djszapi | why are you asking the same questions every single day after getting the answers all the time ? | 18:40 |
| fiferboy | djszapi, I was under the impression that aegis controlled the malfunction screen | 18:40 |
| djszapi | fiferboy: nope, that is system-service/software | 18:40 |
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| fiferboy | djszapi, ah, I stand corrected | 18:41 |
| djszapi | fiferboy: I can even do that with a simple echo | 18:41 |
| djszapi | or just running one binary. | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: bug in bootloader | 18:42 |
| fiferboy | djszapi, Ok then I'm made at the system-service/software :) | 18:43 |
| fiferboy | *mad | 18:43 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps:Fixable? | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yes, once you get fw upgrade | 18:44 |
| djszapiN9 | well, you cannot be mad without proving that there is a bug somewhere because of foobar | 18:44 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Uff...good | 18:44 |
| fiferboy | djszapiN9, no I'm mad that I did something stupid | 18:44 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I cannot see how this shit can continue for long, frankly =( | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: screw aegis(TM) | 18:45 |
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| fiferboy | And ended up losing all my photos | 18:45 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Well, compiling it out is certainly more useful than endlessly bitching about it =( | 18:45 |
| djszapiN9 | RST38h, please return your gadget and give it to those people who would die for one | 18:45 |
| RST38h | djszapiN9: Thank you for your data input. | 18:46 |
| djszapiN9 | and who could behave | 18:46 |
| kimju | I'd left it in the kernel, just allow disabling the enforcing mode. | 18:46 |
| RST38h | yep | 18:46 |
| RST38h | Somebody said that completely cutting it out is impossible, but disabling should work | 18:46 |
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| Stskeeps | agreed, allow disabling enforcing should do the trick | 18:47 |
| djszapiN9 | actually more people said gazillion times | 18:47 |
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| RST38h | Stskeeps: BTW, a guy from Nokia said that QtQuick .qml parser goes to Internet (!) when parsing a .qml file and crashes if Internet is out | 18:48 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: The only reason I can thinkabout is for getting a schema, but it is stil very weird | 18:48 |
| w00t | uh? no | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: schema for qml is insane, it's not xml | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i've just run qt components on a net-less device :P | 18:49 |
| w00t | it can access resources (qml, images, whatever) located over a network, but it doesn't *need* an internet connection, and doesn't access it by any sort of default | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | so i doubt it's true | 18:49 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: the guy may have some internal firmware for all I know | 18:49 |
| djszapiN9 | plain false | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: please give his name so he can be locked in a sauna | 18:49 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: But it certainly sounds disturbing | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i can't recognise that, at least | 18:50 |
| RST38h | Heh, just tried myself with Net off - it crashes indeed | 18:50 |
| RST38h | No,wrong. It's ok, my mistake | 18:51 |
| djszapiN9 | yeah qt cpp code is also parsed over the network:D:d | 18:52 |
| RST38h | Ok. Disabling Wifi. Running app. App runs. | 18:52 |
| RST38h | Now, causing the app to open a QML stack. | 18:53 |
| RST38h | It starts bringing up WiFi, then dies. | 18:53 |
| rm_work | gah why do i suck so bad at cron | 18:53 |
| RST38h | Starting app with WiFi up, doing the same ting | 18:54 |
| rm_work | someone here a cron wizard (or at least know how to use it decently)? | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | was this your weird MTF-QML-widgets mix? | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:54 |
| RST38h | The appshows QMLstack just fine. | 18:54 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps:Nope | 18:54 |
| artemm | rm_work, there's cron.daily/hourly where you can put your scripts for cron | 18:54 |
| rm_work | artemm: ah i am using crontab -e | 18:54 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Not using MTF. And the QWidget->QML transition is completely standard, just as the doctor ordered | 18:54 |
| rm_work | where is that | 18:55 |
| RST38h | Stekeeps: So, WTF does QML want from the network??? | 18:55 |
| rm_work | and does it work on only super recent versions of specific cron daemons?\ | 18:55 |
| artemm | rm_work, the other day somebody told me there's no crontab in harmattan | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: dunno, not sure about harmattan impl | 18:55 |
| w00t | facebook app works fine without network, and it's QML, so... dunno what you're managing to do | 18:55 |
| RST38h | Weird, weird shit | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | valgrind the stuff? | 18:56 |
| w00t | my own QML app also works fine without network | 18:56 |
| rm_work | artemm: ah i just mean, i general, not necessarily on Maemo | 18:56 |
| RST38h | Won'tfind network accesses | 18:56 |
| RST38h | You probably mean trace | 18:56 |
| w00t | so again, not sure what you're doing :P | 18:56 |
| rm_work | s/i gen/in gen/ | 18:56 |
| infobot | rm_work meant: artemm: ah i just mean, in general, not necessarily on Maemo | 18:56 |
| w00t | how does it terminate? | 18:57 |
| w00t | regular exit, or abnormal | 18:57 |
| RST38h | with a crash I think | 18:57 |
| w00t | got a backtrace? | 18:57 |
| RST38h | w00t:try starting with network disabled | 18:57 |
| w00t | RST38h: I did | 18:57 |
| RST38h | Not yet | 18:57 |
| w00t | I have no network | 18:57 |
| * w00t has to go, bbl | 18:58 | |
| djszapi | mmm...my n9 does not boot without network :) | 18:58 |
| * RST38h applies proctological analysis | 18:59 | |
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| ajalkane | fiferboy: any idea if your qml theming patch is getting green light? | 19:09 |
| fiferboy | ajalkane, I haven't seen any progress on the merge request or bug report :( | 19:11 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Ok, got it to segfault. Any idea how to make Harmattan drop cores? | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: no | 19:11 |
| * Stskeeps doesn't know much about harmattan beyond deep levels | 19:11 | |
| ajalkane | Well... hope for best for it to get into some future update | 19:12 |
| fiferboy | Yeah, it seems to take a long time for anything to get into the mainline | 19:12 |
| fiferboy | Probably a lot of review and testing | 19:13 |
| RST38h | I now know for sure that it crashes in QML parser when the network is offline | 19:13 |
| ajalkane | Yeah, Nokia moves carefully. Understandable. | 19:13 |
| RST38h | Just need to get it to dump core =) | 19:13 |
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| RST38h | Ok, got stack trace | 19:15 |
| RST38h | It went into an endless recursion inside libQtDeclarative.so.4 and died there | 19:16 |
| RST38h | gdb says corrupt stack | 19:16 |
| RST38h | So, who here has been screaming about Qt NEveR EVER going to the Net when parsing QML? :) | 19:17 |
| artemm | that' funny | 19:17 |
| artemm | not all the qt enabled device are going to be net-enabled | 19:17 |
| artemm | e.g. car kits | 19:17 |
| RST38h | it is probably some bug they have got | 19:17 |
| RST38h | I have also got an strace of the whole thing | 19:18 |
| artemm | oh, well, you can certainly make such a qml that will go to net | 19:18 |
| RST38h | But I have not | 19:18 |
| artemm | if you put image source to http | 19:18 |
| artemm | or if your JS file is on the web | 19:18 |
| RST38h | no images on http, in fact all images are stock | 19:18 |
| artemm | so it's your own qml with just local stuff | 19:18 |
| RST38h | correct | 19:18 |
| artemm | indeed, it shouldn't go to web :/ | 19:18 |
| artemm | and you don't use webview, do you? | 19:19 |
| RST38h | No. | 19:19 |
| artemm | sounds like a bug to me | 19:19 |
| RST38h | BTW, some troll is doing gettimeofday() all the time. Nobody told them it is not a good idea? | 19:19 |
| artemm | so u have crashes on desktop? | 19:19 |
| RST38h | yes. | 19:19 |
| artemm | is your network a corporate one? | 19:19 |
| RST38h | no. | 19:20 |
| artemm | what about proxy rules | 19:20 |
| artemm | any autoconfiguration there | 19:20 |
| artemm | ? | 19:20 |
| * RST38h sighs at artemm: why do you need to know all this? | 19:20 | |
| RST38h | Are you gonna fix QtDeclarative.so? | 19:20 |
| artemm | Got a small idea that maybe even though you are accessing local file it still tries to resolve proxy rules and if proxy rules are on the net.. | 19:21 |
| artemm | RST38h, nope, but everybody can file a bug | 19:21 |
| RST38h | No,it does not | 19:21 |
| artemm | as long as the reason is clear | 19:21 |
| RST38h | they will not fix it though | 19:21 |
| artemm | oh well, I don't have further ideas despite being interested | 19:21 |
| RST38h | at least not if you file it via publicly available channels | 19:21 |
| djszapiN9 | artemm the problem is that nobody can reproduce it | 19:24 |
| artemm | it's a pity | 19:24 |
| artemm | though Qt guys are into not releasing shit and I'd expect extra attention to that serious issue even if it's rare | 19:25 |
| RST38h | I am sure you can reproduce it | 19:25 |
| RST38h | Anyone needs a QML file? | 19:25 |
| RST38h | http://fms.komkon.org/Config.qml <== Enjoy! | 19:26 |
| djszapiN9 | artemm this guy told that qml parsing happens over ethernet, it is plain false | 19:27 |
| RST38h | This is not what I have said though | 19:28 |
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| RST38h | I have said that QML parser for some reason requires network connection and crashes on .qml file parse when connection is off | 19:28 |
| RST38h | I have also given you the .qml file in question. | 19:28 |
| Venemo_N950 | RST38h, if that is true, then it's ridiculous | 19:29 |
| RST38h | So, why are you continue bitching, djszapiN9? | 19:29 |
| artemm | hey, you've got a single qml for reproduction, submit a bug then | 19:29 |
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| RST38h | artemm: Thanks for advice. | 19:29 |
| thansen | is this a place where I can ask about this stuff... http://api.maps.ovi.com/devguide/overview.html | 19:29 |
| artemm | It was intended to be more of a cheer up than an advice | 19:29 |
| RST38h | Do not need cheering up, thanks. | 19:29 |
| artemm | Even if QML parser needed internet (which I find hard to believe) it must not crash in such a normal situation for a mobile phone as no connection | 19:30 |
| Venemo_N950 | agreed | 19:30 |
| * RST38h has no idea wtf that parser is doing | 19:31 | |
| RST38h | But gdb indicates that it either goes into infinite recursion in libQtDeclarative or corrupts stack there | 19:31 |
| Venemo_N950 | RST38h, have you found this on an N950? | 19:31 |
| RST38h | Yes. | 19:31 |
| RST38h | Venemo: In fact, download .qml file from the URL above and try for yourself | 19:32 |
| Venemo_N950 | well, my QML app runs happily without any connection | 19:32 |
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| kkito | Do you know how to create a qml listview like the "contacts" listview? | 19:32 |
| RST38h | Might bit some component | 19:32 |
| RST38h | s/bit/be | 19:32 |
| RST38h | One of these: | 19:32 |
| RST38h | import QtQuick 1.1 | 19:32 |
| RST38h | import Qt.labs.components 1.0 | 19:32 |
| RST38h | import Qt.labs.folderlistmodel 1.0 | 19:32 |
| RST38h | import com.nokia.meego 1.0 | 19:32 |
| tomma_ | ListView + your delegate | 19:33 |
| evilJazz | RST38h, if you start to disable unnecessary parts in your code, does it still happen? | 19:34 |
| djszapi | I do not care about QML file, I care about steps to reproduce. | 19:34 |
| djszapi | QML file is just one of them. I will not investigate more than trying the steps out. | 19:35 |
| evilJazz | just wondering, tried my rather big app in Flight mode on the device and it is starting just fine, however I am not using Qt.labs.components and Qt.labs.folderlistmodel | 19:35 |
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| RST38h | eviljazz: All parts in my code are necessary | 19:35 |
| RST38h | djszapi: Have I asked you to investigate? | 19:35 |
| djszapi | your issue is invalid until it cannot be reproduced. | 19:36 |
| evilJazz | RST38h, well, just to pinpoint the issue. Perhaps starting with the settings, trimming down the delegate etc. | 19:36 |
| * RST38h sighs again: your own coworker from Nokia reported the damn issue to me | 19:36 | |
| djszapi | it can* | 19:36 |
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| RST38h | But ok, lemme humor you | 19:36 |
| RST38h | 1. Download http://fms.komkon.org/EmuMeego/ati85_1.5.1-1_armel.deb | 19:37 |
| RST38h | 2. Install with dpkg | 19:37 |
| RST38h | 3. Run AlmostTI by clicking on the icon | 19:37 |
| djszapi | sorry, but after your tone, I do not even care about it. | 19:37 |
| RST38h | 4. Pull down the control panel and disable WiFi | 19:37 |
| RST38h | 5. Click on the top left corner of AlmostTi and select TI83 | 19:37 |
| RST38h | 6. Watch it crash | 19:37 |
| RST38h | If you do not care about it, then why do you continue bitching about me reporting this problem? | 19:38 |
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| evilJazz | RST38h, I had big trouble with the Flickable and nested ListViews. Figured out, it was not my code at all, but changes in 4.7.4. I was able to reduce my code to a small test case, which I filed a bug report with on Sunday. Martin Jones already fixed the issue yesterday. Pretty cool. Hope to see the fix in one of the updates. | 19:39 |
| RST38h | To run it under gdb, run as follows: | 19:39 |
| RST38h | gdb /opt/ati85/ati85 | 19:39 |
| RST38h | set args -home /opt/ati85 | 19:39 |
| RST38h | run | 19:39 |
| RST38h | (same steps in the UI, see it crash) | 19:39 |
| evilJazz | RST38h, will try in about 15 mins, gotta eat first | 19:39 |
| RST38h | Btw, if anyone has -dev version of QtDeclarative installed on their device, please, do run the above gdb test case and see what 'bt' says | 19:40 |
| djszapi | bt is useless compared to valgrind | 19:40 |
| djszapi | it actually crashes for me with and without internet | 19:42 |
| djszapi | as for me, it is still invalid. | 19:42 |
| djszapi | it is completely network independent here. | 19:42 |
| RST38h | works fine with wifi up here | 19:43 |
| RST38h | also works for other people with N950s | 19:43 |
| djszapi | also, you can use gdb --args ... btw | 19:43 |
| djszapi | I cannot run it from gdb, nothing happens. | 19:45 |
| djszapi | except this: Starting program: /opt/ati85/ati85 -home /opt/ati85 | 19:45 |
| djszapi | [Thread debugging using libthread_db enabled] | 19:45 |
| djszapi | no ui opened at all.. | 19:45 |
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| RST38h | run as a user. | 19:45 |
| RST38h | don't run as root if you have aegis enabled | 19:45 |
| djszapi | running as user again did not help | 19:45 |
| RST38h | ok. run /usr/bin/run-ati85 from command line as a user, see what happens | 19:46 |
| djszapi | sorry, but please try to provide steps that it can be reproduced with. | 19:46 |
| RST38h | See above. | 19:47 |
| djszapi | I cannot reproduce it that way. | 19:47 |
| RST38h | Sorry. | 19:47 |
| djszapi | ahh wait | 19:49 |
| djszapi | I tried mobile internet | 19:49 |
| djszapi | not wifi. | 19:50 |
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| djszapi | (that was the default connection here) | 19:50 |
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| djszapi | ok, same with wi-fi as well | 19:51 |
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| RST38h | "research in high performance computing with Ruby"... mhm | 19:54 |
| djszapi | yes, because that is the slowest script language. | 19:54 |
| djszapi | at least one of them | 19:54 |
| djszapi | RST38h: at any rate, please me know the outcome of this issue whenever it happens, please. | 19:56 |
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| evilJazz | RST38h, I can reproduce the problem here in Flight Mode. Once I switch to TI83, it asks whether to enable Wifi, I click "No" and I see a black screen. The app doesn't actually crash. Once I try to close it via the task switcher screen the default TI85 display returns again. | 20:10 |
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| npm | i was looking at output of '/opt/QtSDK/Madde/bin/mad list' and saw "rx71-harmattan-1122 (installable)" --> what is this? | 20:17 |
| npm | oh nevermind it's the simulator i didn't install, right? | 20:17 |
| npm | is there any reason to have both "harmattan-nokia-meego-api (installed)" and "harmattan-platform-api (installed)" ? | 20:19 |
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| tomma_ | npm, nokia-meego-api does not have all things platform-api has | 20:27 |
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| tomma_ | well atleast old versions didn't | 20:27 |
| tomma_ | CONFIG+=shareuiinterface-maemo-meegotouch didn't work with harmattan-nokia-meego-api | 20:29 |
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| RST38h | Ok. I have run ines (for simplicity) with and without network and dumped two straces | 20:31 |
| RST38h | let us see what diff says | 20:31 |
| npm | tomma_: so the nokia-meego-api target is just there for API compat w/ meego and n9/n950 devs should just use harmattan-platform-api | 20:35 |
| npm | so people wanting to save space or not have extra targts that need to be manually switched in qtcreator can just skip installing nokia-meego-api right? | 20:36 |
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| RST38h | Hmmm, without WiFi it tries opening the same .qml file twice | 20:44 |
| RST38h | and coredumps on the second open | 20:44 |
| RST38h | ah, I think I have found it. Weird, weird crap | 20:48 |
| * frals smashes head against QtSDK | 20:48 | |
| frals | so the brilliant simulator works, but fuck me if it would include qt-components | 20:48 |
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| artemm | If a harmattan app needs to download some files from internet and keep it for its own purposes, what would be the sane location for it? | 21:16 |
| berndhs | artemm: xdg data location ? | 21:19 |
| artemm | I am just not very familiar with default locations for anything in unix | 21:19 |
| artemm | app is to download a picture from the web | 21:19 |
| artemm | later I'll probably manipulate it and replace one wallpaper with it | 21:19 |
| berndhs | normal place is ${HOME}.local/share/ | 21:20 |
| berndhs | that's what you get when you ask Qt for the data location | 21:20 |
| berndhs | and it is set in ${HOME}/.profile | 21:20 |
| berndhs | so if you ask Qt, you don't have to know if you're on linux or something else | 21:21 |
| artemm | should there be subfolder with application's name? | 21:21 |
| artemm | or something like this | 21:21 |
| artemm | not to mess with the other app files | 21:21 |
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| berndhs | yes | 21:21 |
| berndhs | application name, or if the applications are in groups, Qt usues organization name | 21:22 |
| berndhs | like Nokia, TrollTech,... | 21:22 |
| artemm | aha, thanks | 21:22 |
| berndhs | having said all that | 21:22 |
| berndhs | Harmattan specifies the data location as .local/share | 21:22 |
| berndhs | and also says you should put data in MyDocs | 21:23 |
| berndhs | this is bug 387 :) | 21:23 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=387 maj, High, ---, martin.xu, VERI FIXED, Enable/disable WIFI device may cause ConnMan crash if a WIFI group hidden network is connected | 21:23 |
| berndhs | no not meego bug | 21:23 |
| berndhs | harmattan API bug | 21:23 |
| artemm | oh | 21:23 |
| berndhs | the bot is confused :) | 21:23 |
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| artemm | so I should ignore qt's data location and just put to ~/.local/share/myAppName ? | 21:24 |
| artemm | sorry, got confused | 21:24 |
| berndhs | at the moment, Qt says ~/.local/share/myAppName | 21:25 |
| artemm | oh, that sounds right | 21:25 |
| berndhs | which is the standard way of xdg | 21:25 |
| berndhs | but harmattan gives 2 mutually exclusive answers | 21:25 |
| berndhs | its not you who is confused :) | 21:26 |
| artemm | well, that sounds good enough, I am not going to store gigabates of data. If the location given by Qt is along at least some *nix convention, it should be good enough | 21:26 |
| artemm | by asking qt for data location, do you mean using QSettings with some proper key? | 21:27 |
| berndhs | sounds reasonable to me | 21:27 |
| berndhs | it not settings, its something else | 21:27 |
| berndhs | http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.8-snapshot/qdesktopservices.html#storageLocation | 21:28 |
| berndhs | that one I think | 21:28 |
| berndhs | and also ~/.profile | 21:28 |
| artemm | reading | 21:28 |
| artemm | I guess using QDesktopServices is more sane than reading environment variables | 21:29 |
| berndhs | i think so | 21:29 |
| artemm | and hell knows under which shell app is started | 21:29 |
| berndhs | right | 21:29 |
| artemm | so .profile may not be executed | 21:29 |
| berndhs | QDesktopService is more portable | 21:30 |
| artemm | Thanks a lot, QDesktopServices::DataLocation looks like what I need | 21:30 |
| RST38h | PROBLEM SOLVED | 21:31 |
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| * artemm looks at the file download example and wonders whether its simpler to ask system to download file via wget or something similar | 21:39 | |
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| npm | re putting files into ... ~/.local/share/myAppName what about using ~/.config/myAppName ?? | 22:28 |
| npm | isn't that a standard loc, or is that inappropriate for DLing files? | 22:29 |
| npm | in other words can't ones app put all files in ~/.config/<appname> instead of having ~/.local/share/<appname> AND ~/.config/<appname> | 22:29 |
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| MohammadAG | sigh | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG | I need Windows under Linux or Linux under Windows | 22:31 |
| frals | virtualbox and seamless mode <3 | 22:31 |
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| npm | MohammadAG: I had to use windows under qemu to submit an application to intel appup http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/uploading-to-appup-running-windows-IE-and-silverlight-under-qemu.png | 22:36 |
| artemm | npm: config sounds like place for settings, etc | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | frals, when you have a big ass HDD | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | I already filled my 500GBs | 22:36 |
| artemm | and then anyway if i can ask Qt for the data location, probably it's the best | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | I know! I need a mac! | 22:36 |
| * MohammadAG hides | 22:36 | |
| MohammadAG | artemm, what are you storing? | 22:36 |
| artemm | image | 22:37 |
| MohammadAG | temporary? | 22:37 |
| artemm | I am going to replace wallpaper on schedule | 22:37 |
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| MohammadAG | oh nvm | 22:37 |
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| artemm | need some place for file storage | 22:37 |
| MohammadAG | if it's temporary use CacheLocation | 22:37 |
| artemm | not sure how temporary it is | 22:37 |
| artemm | I may need to keep them for a day or a week | 22:37 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, use DataLocation for your purpose | 22:37 |
| npm | these aren't local settings /home/npm/.config/google-chrome/Default/Local Storage | 22:38 |
| artemm | If I figure I want history | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | it's actually just /home/$user/.cache | 22:38 |
| artemm | well, I'll start with what Qt gives | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not sure where data location is | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | artemm, just a tip | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | I noticed this after hours of trying | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | QDesktopServices returns a string | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | the directory won't exisst | 22:38 |
| artemm | oh | 22:39 |
| artemm | thanks | 22:39 |
| artemm | will keep in mind | 22:39 |
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| artemm | got to leave now | 22:39 |
| npm | and qtcreator stores files in .config too /home/npm/.config/Nokia/qtcreator/generic-highlighter | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | QString dir = QDesktopServices::storageLocation(QDesktopServices::DataLocation); | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | QDir dirObject = QDir(dir); | 22:39 |
| npm | so i'm not going to change my code to stick stuff in .local/share/<appname> :-) | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | if (!dirObject.exists()) | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | dirObject.mkpath(dir); | 22:39 |
| artemm | got it | 22:40 |
| MohammadAG | npm, .config is used by QSettings | 22:40 |
| artemm | will use .config if data location is bad | 22:40 |
| MohammadAG | no, that's for QSettings :P | 22:40 |
| npm | so will an app be in violation if it stores all it's local stuff in ~/.config ?? | 22:41 |
| MohammadAG | no, since Gtk apps use that sometimes | 22:41 |
| MohammadAG | but .config is naturally for inis, not images | 22:41 |
| MohammadAG | it's just wrong | 22:41 |
| npm | ok, so i guess i won't worry about it being for qsettings | 22:41 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not sure if it's backed up | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG | if it is, I expect users to have larger backups :p | 22:42 |
| npm | i'm not thinking about images as much as say sql database storage related to app | 22:42 |
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| MohammadAG | oh, that's fine then | 22:42 |
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| MohammadAG | cuteTube does that | 22:43 |
| npm | exactly the app i'm thinking of | 22:43 |
| npm | ~/.config/cutetube/Databases/63db502ea46fc7fe74e01e615d2c00d6.sqlite | 22:43 |
| MohammadAG | though I'm not sure why cuteTube uses sqlite for settings | 22:43 |
| MohammadAG | oh, could be usernames | 22:44 |
| berndhs | the xdg standard is well accepted, putting things in .config and .local, and also widely ignored :) | 22:44 |
| npm | MohammadAG: yes, it stores user/passwords for one | 22:46 |
| npm | see http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_11_2.tar.gz http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_11_2.i586.rpm http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1.11.1_armel.deb | 22:49 |
| npm | ^^ my fork | 22:49 |
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| kkito | hello | 23:07 |
| kkito | Do you know in what package are https://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/View_Headers.html ? | 23:08 |
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