IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2011-09-04

evilJazznpm, Qt 4.7.4 Desktop is included in the new Qt SDK, so one can finally use the Qt Quick 1.1 components without the need to compile 4.7.4. Check here: and skip the compilation step. Worked for me.00:26
npmevilJazz: thanks!00:31
npmthose crazy hazors
npmwell i guess this update means i can deinstall my extra copy of qtcreator 2.3 rc000:37
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DocScrutinizerRST38h: (<javispedro> and PA can capture sound from the radio, but mono 8kHZ only <RST38h> javispedro: 8kHz for radio is not that bad) you're aware that sampling-rate=8kHz means abs max freq in sampled signal = 4kHz? That IS bad for radio even02:05
javispedrowhich is the reason I'm not using PA to capture02:10
GeneralAntillesHow's progress?02:11
javispedrostill writing the sample app, had not much time yet02:11
GeneralAntillesBut you got it working?02:13
javispedroyep, fmrx02:13
javispedroGeneralAntilles: you clearly weren't there, so ;)02:15
GeneralAntillesI'm quoting that in MWKN02:15
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: there's the thread too:
javispedroprobably more useful as a link :)02:16
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DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: please try to mention in MWKN that this is not in any way a proof that things can get done regarding low level stuff, without proper hw docs02:19
GeneralAntillesYou're not getting proper hardware docs.02:21
GeneralAntillesLet's be realistic. :P02:21
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: please don't act antagonistic. Sure we *could* get proper docs02:22
GeneralAntillesBlog about it so it'd save me from non-expert editorializing in a semi-related story summary?02:22
GeneralAntilles(or mailing list or forum or wherever)02:23
lcukGeneralAntilles, irc is javispedro's blog :P02:24
DocScrutinizerand DocScrutinizer's blog ;-D02:24
javispedroI remember the N900 times when there was that rather big "problem" with the initial fmradio implementation in that seemingly some N900s were left without working microphone02:25
javispedro(until reboot? until reflash? all I know is that it was fixable)02:25
GeneralAntillesThat was a software issue, no?02:25
DocScrutinizeryeah, sth like "fried permanently, send in to fix it"02:25
javispedroI do remember someone said his had to be sent to fix, but I think it was not caused by the same issue02:25
javispedrothere was talks about hw defects in mics too.02:26
lcukone of n900s here had no mic02:26
DocScrutinizerin the end we missed *proper docs* to avoid it and to find out the true nature of the defects02:26
lcuktracy used it as her angry birds rig02:26
javispedroeither way, I'm more confident in my solution02:27
javispedrothere's no raw hci commands any longer02:27
javispedroand not even changes to hw:0 mixer, just hw:202:27
javispedroplus pulse is used for all output02:27
javispedroand libresource is used to avoid being around during phone calls02:28
javispedroI do think it could cause conflicts with BT audio, though.02:28
alteregojavispedro: congrats!!02:29
lcukwhat other unutilised hw is there?02:29
alteregofmtx? :)02:29
javispedrolcuk: a 1Ghz processor! =)02:29
lcukjavispedro, ?02:29
javispedroneed killer app ;)02:29
lcukalterego, you are meant to say Thanks! on
alteregohow about the opencl capable gfx chip. do that! :P02:30
lcukjavispedro :)02:30
lcukjavispedro, also are you meaning there is a whole 1ghz processor idling?02:30
* lcuk made first qml app yesterday02:31
lcukactually, not my first02:31
lcukbut first to include sketches02:31
lcukactually, bitmap caches of sketches02:31
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, yes, the hw issue was unrelated to the FMRX issue.02:31
lcukbecause for the love of all things i couldnt get rendering speed up02:31
GeneralAntillesOne was pycage not handling audio interface capture/release properly (do to shit docs) and one was a manufacturing defect.02:32
lcukjavispedro, I pondered using pygame02:32
javispedropygame looks quite nice02:32
lcukpygame is just the simple bindings to sdl02:32
javispedroI need to try how it looks when you use my SDL with it, though02:32
lcukas you know02:32
alteregoI wanna have a look at gluon some time soon.02:33
lcukalterego, :D02:33
lcukleinir will help no doubt02:33
javispedrogluon is also a good idea02:33
alteregoTomorrow I'm gonna attempt hacking harmattan home screens.02:33
javispedroalterego: in gluon? :)02:33
alteregoReally want a 4th vertically scrollable widget view.02:33
lcukjavispedro, is pygame default and usable on symbian do you think?02:33
alteregojavispedro: it's a game framework for Qt with Qml UI capabilities.02:34
alteregolcuk: unlikey, python on symbian isn't well maintained.02:34
lcukalterego, you mean on swipe?02:34
alteregolcuk: yes02:34
javispedrolcuk: no idea...02:34
lcuki suggested that a while ago02:34
lcuki think all apps should be listed there ;)02:34
javispedrolcuk: oh,
alteregoI want a forth swipe view with the original harmattan style widget display.02:34
lcukjavispedro, :)02:34
alteregoIf you remember tyhose sketches.02:34
lcukwonder how performance is with some detailed sketches02:35
alteregoI don't care if I have to reimplement the whole harmattan home stuff :P02:35
lcukalterego, I have many original harmattan sketches02:35
alteregoI'll do it just for a new meego handset ux :)02:35
alteregoIt really would take me less than a day to clone the whole harmattan home ux02:35
lcukheh doubt it02:36
alteregoI reckon less than four hours.02:36
lcukthat is like one of my time estimate02:36
lcuk6 months later ..02:36
alteregoThe hardest part is the task switcher view.02:36
lcukwhats hard about it?02:36
javispedrolcuk: nah, those qml experts feel that they can do whatever UI they want in minutes ;)02:36
alteregothe transitions, because I don't know off hand how to do it :)02:37
javispedrothen the problems start when it comes to make it use the live data instead of hardcoded ;)02:37
alteregoBut I do have an idea.02:37
lcukjavispedro, "openswipe.diff" patch in liqbase is amusing02:37
javispedroswiping between apps is a webos idea ;)02:38
alteregookay, I may be under estimating, I'd need to implement all of the moving around of app launchers and those context menus. But that's not hard either.02:38
lcukjavispedro, hildon desktop02:38
javispedroalterego: .desktop file parsing, texture from pixmap, ...02:38
javispedroalterego: that alone would take me weeks and I know about it =)02:39
alterego.desktop is easy, they're just .ini files.02:39
javispedrooh well02:39
* lcuk loves optimism02:39
alteregotexture from pixma, is pretty easy, all in QPixmap and Qimage02:39
lcukalterego, most important thing: have fun whilst coding02:39
javispedroaka überslow02:39
alteregoExactly :)02:39
lcukmy e-cig needs recharging02:40
* lcuk should not have woken back up02:40
alteregoI'd probably work on something with qml2 and Qt5 though,02:40
javispedrooh, pupnik, where are thou02:40
alteregoQt compositor and all that new jazz02:40
lcukalterego, qml2 or rather qt quick 2 should have nice fast line rendering in js02:41
* alterego has just got back from a wedding, really need to get out of this suit.02:41
lcukno wonder you are thinking02:41
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lcukjavispedro, i made a qml app02:42
lcukand had to cache pre-rendered sketches02:42
lcukat various resolutions02:42
lcuksince "new qml for each resolution"02:42
javispedroreminds me of qgraphicsview =)02:42
lcukbut it seems so wasteful02:42
lcukthere are 9 sketches on the app02:42
javispedroah, you mean cache before runtim?02:43
lcukoh yeah02:43
lcuki wrote an export from liqbase02:43
lcukfor what is a native simple task there02:43
lcuk"show a grid of sketches"02:43
javispedroI was positively surprised with qgraphicsview performance02:43
javispedroI wrote an app that renders the sketches I make with my smartpen -- we are talking about probably 4000 segments or so02:44
javispedroI just threw them all to qgv as PathItems02:44
javispedroand it was snappy02:44
javispedroit must done of those fancy algorithms with bounding boxes02:45
javispedro*must do02:45
lcukmight have to have a look02:46
alteregoYeah, qgv is serious voodoo02:46
lcukwriting on n950 screen isnt as comfortable02:46
alteregoI feel ashamed, I' using N8 as primary phone and N900 as primary mobile computer.02:47
lcukwhy ashamed02:47
alteregoI don't use the N950 as much as I probably should.02:47
javispedroalterego: don't. now you'll root for the NIT series to be back!02:47
lcukn8 is awesome02:47
* javispedro wouldn't use a symbian phone. but a featurephone I'd virtually never use and a NIT? oh yeah!02:48
javispedroin fact, come to think of it..02:48
javispedrowheres the tablet mode/phone mode app for the n950!!02:48
alteregoThe harmattan browser is a bit lame for what I expect. No cut & paste in terminal caused me to ditch the N950 as a N900 replacement.02:48
lcukjavispedro, how many qgv can be used?02:49
lcukare each heavy02:49
alteregoAnd the video playback in the N900 is superior than the N950 at the moment for watching tv/film rips.02:49
javispedrolcuk: no idea, but you're supposed to use only one02:49
lcukie would making a subclass and using it be feasible02:49
lcukthat sucks02:49
javispedrolcuk: then you can use as many items as necessary02:49
alteregolcuk: you should really have one qgv and draw to differen areas.02:49
javispedroitems can have other items and so on02:49
alteregoLike mtf02:49
lcukjavispedro, sure02:50
lcukbut a gallery of several hundred sketches02:50
lcukdo I then need to manage the positioning and scrolling02:50
lcukto render in place02:50
alteregoThere was a small period before my columbus qml port work where I was doing plain qgv rendering.02:50
javispedrojust make it 6000000x6000000 pixels02:50
alteregoWas fun :)02:50
lcukjavispedro, sure02:50
lcukbut mouse events02:50
javispedromy paper thing was 3000x4000 or something like that02:51
lcukwhich sketch was clicked on02:51
lcukyes, you had a single page02:51
alteregolcuk: child items inhrit their parents coordinate system.02:51
alteregoIt's like qml in that respect.02:51
javispedroyeah, it's pretty well thought out.02:51
javispedroalterego: afaik qml is like it because qml uses it ;)02:51
lcukalterego, so I can add child elements each with a sketch02:51
alteregojavispedro: indeed ;)02:51
alteregolcuk: yup :)02:52
lcukand still deal with mousing and clicks etc as normal02:52
lcukbut render using the parent02:52
lcuksounds complicated02:52
alteregoyup, even the mouse/pointer handling is easy and intuitive/flexible.02:52
* lcuk couldnt know how to start that02:52
lcuki should find way to get some contracted help :)02:52
alteregolcuk: try doing something simple with qgv :)02:52
javispedrothe problem I think is with dynamic data02:52
javispedroif you want to show something static (a wall of sketches for ex.) it is easy02:53
javispedroyou should think of the view as the "viewport" and the scene as the entire wall, with each item being a sketch, that contains paths/segments as other items, etc.02:53
alteregojavispedro: you can push redraw/damage events02:53
lcukjavispedro, calendar gets updated via asynchronous syncronisation02:53
alteregojavispedro: on a per qgv item basis02:53
lcukinfact all the grids do02:54
javispedroalterego: yes, but while it is easy to build a qgv model from data, it might be hard to update it without recreating, depending on how your data is02:54
lcukcal/journal/tasks :)02:54
lcukjavispedro, did you see the tasks/todo ui?02:54
javispedroI kinda remember so :)02:55
lcukalterego, did you read the t&c of that nokia thing couple of days ago?02:56
alteregolcuk: not sure what you're refering to.02:56
* javispedro raises hears02:56
alteregojavispedro: have you checked you fmrx profile using the system monitor app on the N95002:57
alteregoIt does monitor battry consumption I think.02:57
javispedro"fmrx profile" "system monitor app"?02:57
lcukalterego, nokia sent mail out to #n950club02:57
alterego(wrt to one of the follow up posts)02:57
alteregolcuk: must have missed it, got a link?02:57
javispedroalterego: it won't be great, exactly same problem as n900 radio has02:57
javispedroalterego: there will be a thread copying audio data02:57
lcukif you missed it, no02:57
lcukit says i am not allowed :P02:58
javispedrolcuk: ah, so that mail is legit?02:58
alteregoit was an email?02:58
lcukwell ronan confirmed it02:58
javispedroah well02:58
alteregoI never got an email ...02:58
alteregodoes that mean I'm exempt?02:59
berndhsi thought the email was in poor taste03:00
djszapialterego: do not forget the fact, we do not provide stable API yet with Gluon. It does not mean it is bad, just for knowing.03:00
javispedroberndhs: yes03:00
alteregodjszapi: :)03:00
alteregodjszapi: I've got no serious ideas, would just like to play.03:00
javispedroberndhs: my spam filter did not reject it, but I did..03:00
lcukjavispedro, I am gonna submit an app to it, not sure what yet03:01
lcukbut I don't see why not03:01
* lcuk will find some kind of awesome simple app somewhere in his catalogue03:02
lcukinfact the one I was mucking around with might work03:02
djszapialterego: Also, we have right now only 2d graphics engine.03:03
javispedrothe kind of apps I'm thinking would probably get millions of downloads but not pass QA ;)03:03
alteregolcuk: that ms thing appears to be on the 10th of oct03:07
alteregoJust found a general mail about a london ms wp dev thing from nokia developer.03:07
berndhswhere is the market for these supposed downloads, geographically ?03:07
javispedrowill they ever ship the required number of N9s? ;)03:07
lcukalterego, you should have contacted wk still03:08
lcukcan most likely get dev device too03:08
alteregolcuk: gonna do it on monday. Are you not attending?03:08
lcuki want to, have to work out how to proceed beyond this month though first03:09
lcukbefore I even consider next ;)03:09
alteregoFair enough :)03:09
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djszapialterego: feel free to ask us about Gluon when you need help with it.03:19
alteregoWill do, any work going on with 3D?03:20
djszapiwe were trying to work on as less hard coded options as possible. Manpower lack is unfortunately always a factor in bigger FOSS projects.03:22
djszapiarchitecturally speaking, there is no limitation for that though. I am not aware of anybody right away working on 3D support.03:22
djszapiI think for instance the asset importing could be done after with 3d effects, but I think we do not support it yet. Since we had a flexible approach, and the game editor is also being developed to not state 2d hard coded things, I think it would not be that hard to change. We should consider the texture memory usage a bit more for that though since that would be more radical.03:26
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twoboxenhey all05:42
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Venemo~seen wazd08:47
infobotwazd <> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 9h 1m 10s ago, saying: ' <- tada! :)'.08:47
Venemoand indeed08:47
Venemowazd's app ROCKS!!!08:47
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rzrVenemo: under wich licence ?10:18
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wazdheya all12:04
wazdWe've fixed some major bugs in MeeCast so you're all welcome to update12:06
Elessarwazd: what's about SectionScroller at Country/City choosing dialogs?12:08
ElessarI was scrolling to Yekaterinburg for a minute, surely ;)12:09
wazdElessar: yeah, all settings are mostly placeholders12:12
wazdElessar: the problem is that we're not using MeegoTouch components12:12
ElessarSectionSroller exists at QML12:13
wazdElessar: the thing I really wanted to add is search bar like in contacts for example12:13
ElessarI've used it already with ListView12:14
Elessarwazd: do you use c++ models or what?12:14
ElessarI know that SectionScroller fails with QAbstractItemMode, but I know how to hook it to work12:14
wazdElessar: our devs are offline currently so I can't ask them, but I surely will, thanks :)12:17
Elessarwazd: take a look at this list model with filter ability It's already hooked so it works with SectionScroller12:18
Elessaror send this link to your developers :)12:18
wazdcool, thanks12:19
Elessarwhat is need - you should bind TextField's "text" property to this model's "filter" one, and don't forget to emit countChanged signal for proper SectionScroller's update12:20
ElessarI spent some hours to understand why it doesn't work with QAbstractItemModel %)12:21
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djszapirzr: wanna package festival ?13:39
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Venemohey wazd13:46
Venemowazd, your app is pure awesomeness, but it keeps secrets from me!13:46
Venemowazd, it doesn't want to tell me the weather on monday13:47
VenemoI see in the forum that this got fixed since :)13:48
Venemowazd, also, feel free to use my WorkingSelectionDialog component which has a filtering search box... or use fiferboy's tuned up version for extra performance :) for the setup eg. city/country/etc selection13:48
* alterego ponders a movie to watch tonight13:49
alteregoMight raid my sisters dvd collection whilst I'm at my parents.13:50
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lardmanI guess people have already worked it out, but that competition is kosher according to Quim14:00
lardmanapologies for the slow update, was a long afternoon and night....14:00
RST38hmoo lardman, yea, we know since yesterday14:01
RST38hnot that it is of any importance, given the required 10k threshold14:01
berndhsthe successful candidate would specifically target the markets where the N9 is sold first14:04
berndhswhere is that ?14:04
VenemoRST38h, what do we know since yesteday?14:05
SpeedEvilI had a really good idea - but it's only for the UK - so ...14:07
RST38hVenemo: the qt contest is legit14:08
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VenemoRST38h, ah, that! thx :)14:15
VenemoSpeedEvil, only for the UK?14:15
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lardmanRST38h: yeah, would be interesting to know whether the UK and US are definitely out14:19
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alteregoIf you want numbers, then I wouldn't write a UK or US centric app ;)14:21
SpeedEvilVenemo: Integrating with a UK only store.14:23
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ieatlintthis the qtinnovationchallenge?14:27
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Elessardjszapi: you've told yeasterday about some synchronization tool, what have you mean exactly?14:34
djszapiElessar: actually I found another interesting project for you.14:35
djszapiElessar: read the N900->N950 migration page, and you can see my hackaround for exporting from files (contacts).14:35
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djszapianother idea would be a Qt text-to-speech engine I would use in my dictionary for instance instead of plain festival, espeak QProcess calls.14:36
djszapithis QtSpeech is rather poor yet, but would be useful like ktts. Not sure what the architecture design is for the Qt Accesibility project though.14:36
rzrdjszapi: the speech one ?14:37
djszapirzr: sorry ?14:37
rzrabout festival14:37
rzri can try to import it14:38
djszapiyep, for the time being. However I would like to see a QSpeech engine for these stuff inside the Qt Accessibility project. Thinking of posting it on qt5-feedback14:38
Elessardjszapi: can you give me link to this page?14:38
rzri have ton of stuff to be done today14:38
djszapirzr: festival is a hefty stuffy14:39
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Elessardjszapi: you want to have contact migration tool? should it just get QContactManager, get all contacts from it, import them to vcard file, then open them at other device and push them again to QContactManager?14:43
djszapiElessar: no idea about the internals, sorry. :) I just feel the use case of it to make it from Ui, not cli.14:44
alteregomeego already has a contact migration tool that should somewhat work on Harmattan.14:44
alteregoIn pretty much exactly the way you described ;)14:44
alteregoWe use it for migrating contacts from maemo to meego CE on the N90014:44
djszapiElessar: I would actually prefer if the current Ui would be extended with it.14:45
ElessarNokia's migration tool works well for me to import contacts from my 5800 to n95014:45
djszapinot a separate application, if one already existing for this use case.14:45
djszapiElessar: yeah, but that is not from file.14:45
Elessardjszapi: hm, how is it should work?14:46
djszapiElessar: pretty simple, N950 has an old image, that seems to import files, so that Ui is fine.14:46
ElessarI can't understand how is it possible to extended existen application14:46
djszapithe background operation is a large hack a I do really dislike since you can even import a browser... This option was pulled out on the new images because of this.14:47
djszapiSo that functionality is simply missing.14:47
djszapiand after I got rid of N900, I do not have any storage left, just my PC. Since I reflash my device a lot, I now need to make it from cli which is not nice.14:48
lardmanis there a spreadsheet app for Harmattan?14:49
djszapiI can open excel files with the calligra frontend14:51
djszapiso, yes.14:52
Elessardjszapi: n950 contains libflite, have you heard smth about it?14:54
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djszapiapt-cache search and packrat give no results14:56
Elessarpackage name is libflite114:57
djszapino result, really.14:57
Elessarit's in repos14:57
Elessarhm, but I haven't added any sources to apt14:58
djszapiwhich repo ?15:00
djszapiobs has zero results for flite, libflite, libflite115:01
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Elessardeveloper@N950 /home/developer $ apt-cache search libflite15:02
Elessarlibflite1 - a small run-time speech synthesis engine - shared libraries15:02
Elessardunno what repo, don't know how to get it's name15:02
djszapiyou can see the link while downloading.15:04
djszapiflite site: -> zero result as well15:05
ElessarПолучено:1 ./ libflite1 1.4-release-3 [14.3MB]15:05
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djszapiElessar: true, it is installable from the device, but not from scratchbox or from the Nokia public repository...15:10
* RST38h still does not understand how harmattan-dev repository can exist without the Packages or Packages.gz file15:10
djszapiElessar: I would not like to use a different engine than a Qt one.15:11
djszapiElessar: We might need for the answer here about that though:
djszapito wait*15:11
rzrdjszapi: depends on esd15:11
djszapirzr: what depends on esd ?15:12
djszapirzr: right, I will actually not use festival after all, I think.15:13
djszapiI contribute back to Qt Accessibility instead.15:13
rzrif some want it please fork that one
lardmanI added flite to the Fremantle repos15:15
* lardman reads the backlogs15:15
lardmandjszapi: where does one find the calligra fontend?15:16
djszapiDocuments text on the applauncher page.15:16
lardmanah I see, are the docs editable though?15:16
djszapiat least deletable. I am not finding anything for editing.15:18
Elessardjszapi: don't you know whuich formats are supported by documents app?15:18
RST38hlardman: harmattan repo fromnokia15:19
RST38h86MB though15:19
lardmanRST38h: do we have .install files yet, or is this a manual edit of the conf files?15:19
djszapielessar: nope without looking into the code, but pretty much all known format I have ever had so far.15:19
RST38hlardman: manual edit15:20
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RST38hlardman: it does look like we will not get a new HAM15:20
lardmanwell that's a shame, though HAM would have been bad news anyway ;)15:20
djszapiElessar: meaning that, pdf, excel, odf presentation, Microsoft Powerpoint, OpenDocument Text and the like.15:20
RST38hlardman: you are supposed to install stuff from ovi store =)15:20
lardmanRST38h: are there any instructons on the wiki for adding new repos, etc.? lists and so on?15:21
lardmanyeah, all well and good when doing development work of course ;)15:21
RST38hlardman: simply edit the /etc/apt/source.d/somesourcefile15:21
RST38hyou can add your own, apt will take them15:21
lardmanand do we have a list of repos anywhere?15:21
griAre there any new on a scratchbox sdk update? I hate it's missing all parts of messaging and commhistory-daemon can't be built ...15:22
* lardman has been concentrating on his own apps15:22
griany news*15:22
Elessardjszapi: is there any ability to add new formats to it?15:22
Elessarmay be I can just create djvu backend for this app?15:22
djszapiVenemo: irc-chatter stopped working again... Same connection issue...15:25
djszapiElessar: you need to talk to Zagge, I am afraid.15:26
Elessarwhere can I find him?15:26
djszapi#calligra, #koffice15:26
djszapibut I would first grep for "djvu" in the calligra codebase15:29
Venemodjszapi, if you enable/disable ssl, will it work again?15:30
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djszapiVenemo, if I can get a gold fish I guess :p15:31
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djszapiVenemo it is weird15:31
djszapiVenemo: my last guess is that, I cannot connect to the channels if I somehow have 2.5, not 3.515:32
djszapibut it is just a guess-work15:32
Venemoweird, it works for me on 2.5G too, but it connects a lot slower15:32
Venemobut if the connection is not working, then it will display "connecting" forever.15:40
VenemoI will add some safeguards to check for the connection state before connecting15:42
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alteregoHurp, I should have formatted this ntfs ..16:12
alteregoHow do you back up a 30G file onto a fat filesystem.16:12
tomma_split it to 4G files?16:13
RST38hlardman: no but it is really standard debian way16:13
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Venemoalterego, reformat in ntfs, or any other sane file system16:16
alteregoKind of late now I've copied over 300G of stuff on to it :P16:18
alteregoAh, I know what I can do.16:20
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Venemoalterego, isn't there some file system converter tool?16:34
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alteregoI don't really want to risk losing my data with some crazy filesystem tools :P16:35
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alteregoGetting some really erratic download speeds on my server at the moment ..16:52
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* alterego wonders how long it'd take him to mirror the core ubuntu repositories.17:09
arceani'm receiving _empty_ replies from, could it be correlated with aegis?17:10
arceanwhere on Maemo everything's ok17:11
MohammadAGalterego, should be done before the next MeeGo device is out17:13
* MohammadAG goes looking for intern jobs in Israel17:13
hiemanshuMohammadAG: so GSoC this year? :P17:15
hiemanshuwell next17:15
MohammadAGwho? :P17:15
hiemanshuMohammadAG: you :P17:15
hiemanshunow that you are in college17:15
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djszapiN9venemo, i would hide the # from the user completely, on the query/channel add page18:02
djszapiN9just a selection and name typing18:02
djszapiN9cli geeks can use join, and the ui should be the simplest18:03
SpeedEvilIt's a pity freenode breaks that somewhat18:04
SpeedEvilWith ## channels18:04
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djszapiN9mmm, i need a touch friendly reviewboard client18:12
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djszapiN9venemo, mmm irc-chatter keeps crashing18:24
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antman8969has anyone gotten the n950 to sync with google calendars?19:00
VenemodjszapiN9, what are you doing when it crashes, and what does the app do when it crashes?19:01
djszapiN9venemo random, but for instance tab changr19:09
VenemodjszapiN9, and what happens then? the app just segfaults?19:09
Venemonever happened for me.19:10
djszapiN9yeah, would prolly need a valgrind analization19:11
djszapiN9i am in an urgent need of a code review client for touch hadgets19:14
Venemowell, I can not really test it on the firmware you are using, so... :(19:15
djszapiN9do not cry :p19:15
* Venemo wants new software for his N95019:16
VenemodjszapiN9, will such software be released for us when the N9 hits the markets?19:16
djszapiN9how should i know ? ;)19:16
Venemomaybe you could ask some of your colleagues at Nokia? :P19:17
djszapiN9i do not have a topmanager friend with big ties ;)19:17
Venemothen ask the one without big ties :P19:18
Venemojoking aside, new software would really help our development efforts.19:18
djszapiN9someone is addict ? :p19:18
Venemowell, I dunno what happens if I don't get the new software!19:19
djszapiN93rd world war casus belli!!!19:19
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djszapiN9i think i will make a touch friendly reviewboard client19:22
djszapiN9very hard to comment on the patch from the browser19:22
djszapiN9should be fairly straight-forward19:24
djszapiN9provided they have an api and that is clean enough19:25
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djszapiN9venemo crash series again19:27
VenemoI see...19:27
djszapiN9prolly something is dangling19:27
djszapiN9valgtind is your friend19:27
Venemoyeah, the only "problem" is that it hasn't behaved this way for anyone else, but you.19:28
djszapiN9that does mean nothing19:28
djszapiN9valgrind can report things like dangling without the crash19:29
Venemoall right, I will check it with valgrind then19:29
djszapiN9dangling stuff canöcause "random" crash19:30
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djszapiN9it might also be that, the library is buggy, not the standalone code19:31
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djszapiN9crash again19:32
djszapiN9when i would like to see the people list and then i press x19:32
djszapiN9that caused this time19:33
Venemothe app has never crashed for me at all, despite the fact that I literally use it every day19:34
djszapiN9also there is anotheröbug19:34
Venemowell, I do use the latest stable release... :P19:35
Venemomaybe there is something that makes the newer version segfault19:35
djszapiN9if i check the people list out and then i press x19:35
djszapiN9it opens up a query19:35
Venemohiemanshu, knock-knock19:35
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djszapiN9slep his nail with a hammer :p19:36
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hiemanshuVenemo: yeah?19:38
hiemanshudjszapiN9: yes, that has been fixed in a newer release19:39
Venemohiemanshu, read what djszapiN9 wrote19:39
hiemanshuVenemo: FIXED NEXTRELEASE :P19:39
Venemohiemanshu, ok, get djszapiN9 to update.19:40
djszapiN9venemo also get rid of this geekish queru/channel open ui pls19:40
VenemodjszapiN9, what are you proposing instead?19:40
Venemowhat is geekish in one text field?19:40
djszapiN9i said it more times19:41
djszapiN9who cares about marker, #19:41
Venemochannel names begin with #19:41
djszapiN9i would make a selection and just an input field19:41
hiemanshudjszapiN9: what do you do with ## chans then?19:41
djszapiN9we do not care19:41
Venemook, I get it.19:42
Venemoso what do you recommend instead?19:42
hiemanshuif you are going to ask the user if its a # or ## you might as well have them enter it19:42
djszapiN9simple ui hides as much lowlevel stuff ss possible19:43
hiemanshusure, but how do you differentiate between # and ## ?19:44
djszapiN9so a selection is way more usable19:44
hiemanshusure, but how do you differentiate between # and ## ?19:44
djszapiN9i do not know how it is relevant19:45
hiemanshua lot of channels are ##, and they have channels with the same name with #19:45
hiemanshuif there is a selection, how do you differentiage?19:46
SpeedEvilBut are there any active ones on both?19:46
hiemanshuSpeedEvil: #fedora and ##fedora19:46
djszapiN9i do not care about this corner case19:46
hiemanshuI do19:46
hiemanshuand this is not a corner case19:46
djszapiN9corner case, you can write -1- #19:46
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djszapiN9and NOT 219:47
djszapiN9and always bloating it because of a corner case19:47
hiemanshutell that to gnome, who made big buttons for .3% of the computer users19:47
MohammadAGIRC should be IRC19:48
djszapiN9to be honest, it even simplifies the corner case as wrll19:48
djszapiN9and that is why it is rather irrelevant19:48
MohammadAGboth your points are irrelevant19:48
MohammadAGit should be # and ##19:48
hiemanshuMohammadAG: I am saying what you just said, it should be # and ##19:48
MohammadAGyou shouldn't be the one simplifying IRC19:49
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djszapiN9made my day :ddddddddd19:50
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djszapiN9so you are basically say it should be crap all the time, instead of just really corner cases19:54
hiemanshuif you want to fix it, patches are welcome19:54
MohammadAGno, I'm saying you shouldn't be skype-ifying IRC19:54
djszapiN9it is not about patches19:54
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hiemanshuhmmm, I have a saner way to do it19:55
hiemanshuand to keep both happy19:56
djszapiN9if you wanna this crap, just use join19:56
VenemodjszapiN9, if channel names don't begin with a #, then how do you distinguish channel names and user names?19:56
djszapiN9please do not make ywo crappy interfaces19:56
hiemanshugood idea, lets just remove that window, problem solved19:56
ajalkaneHow about it adds # if its missing, otherwise use channel as given?19:57
hiemanshudjszapiN9: like I said, if you have a way to fix it, patches are welcome19:57
djszapiN9hiemanshu i will help zero for a design i heavily dislike19:57
djszapiN9with a design*19:58
hiemanshudjszapiN9: then stop whining about it please19:58
djszapiN9nobody is whining, try to be gentle19:58
djszapiN9venemo so any character can be the first or some of them ?19:59
VenemodjszapiN9, you can write any character. if the first one is a #, it's going to join a channel. if the first one is not a #, it will query a user.20:00
VenemodjszapiN9, I could add a button or a check box that adds/removes the # automatically20:00
djszapiN9yes, so i still stick by20:00
Venemoor maybe I should add two separate dialogs for joining a channel and querying a user.20:01
hiemanshuVenemo: query to click works, you want something more?20:01
Venemohiemanshu, I mean, two different dialogs with one text field.20:02
hiemanshuwell nope, lets concentrate on the GUI re-design first20:02
djszapiN9venemo that does not solve the ## issue20:03
Venemoagreed, but this could be part of it.20:03
VenemodjszapiN9, hmmm, you are right.20:03
djszapiN9nothing solves that, but20:03
djszapiN9my idea would simplofy the 90%20:03
djszapiN9and would also let you type fewer character in 10%20:03
hiemanshulets just make it understand brainwaves, problem solved20:04
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djszapiVenemo: so a selection and typing20:05
djszapiand (bracket: be aware with extra # with his 10%)20:05
djszapithe bracket is now insane there anyway20:06
Venemoall right, I'll see what I can do.20:06
djszapiit tells me to write one #20:06
djszapiso it is even worse how it is anyway20:06
ajalkaneIrc channels, whenever referenced, are almost always written with beginning #. Having fe. #harmattan to direct to ##harmattan would be very broken design20:06
djszapibut the thing is that, you could hide the beginning character in 90%20:06
VenemoI have some recent real life issues (GF issues if you must know), so it might be some time before I can even start thinking about it.20:07
djszapino hurry.20:07
Venemoin fact, I don't think that writing a single character is such a great deal.20:07
djszapiclicking is certainly easier than looking for that character on the VKB20:07
Venemoit's only two taps on the VKB20:07
djszapiwhich is not even on the first layout...20:07
djszapiyes, clicking is one20:07
djszapiconsidering that, if someone changes the layout improperly...20:08
djszapiagain, if someone is really addict of "#", he can just use join in my opinion. No need to replicate the same way20:10
hiemanshuso, you want to make people type 5 extra chars?20:10
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hiemanshumake that 6 with the extra space20:11
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djszapihiemanshu: fail to see why geeks could not want that...20:11
djszapijust like vi and terminal on the phone...20:11
djszapibut that is a really different use case.20:12
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djszapiVenemo Venemo_N950 there is another bug :)20:14
djszapiif I use an erroneus nickname, it does not report the issue properly. does.20:14
djszapiit gives me an error code (say integer number), that is20:14
Venemo_N950yeah, that needs fixing.20:14
MohammadAGdon't get rid of the damn #20:16
MohammadAGit's IRC gdi20:16
* npm finds actual reference to N950 on
djszapiVenemo_N950: also, rather annoying if I join a channel, I do not get the channel in the focus20:17
djszapisay, with /join ...20:17
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djszapiMohammadAG: you are rather wrong. There are already webclients working without that just nicely.20:19
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djszapithe first like that I used was 10 years ago or so.20:20
djszapialso, this case is not just corner case to have more, but even mostly freenode specific, so #debian-mentors on ircnet, or the harmattan developers on other networks would benefit nothing from it.20:24
rzrhi do gmail's msexchange support do ?20:26
alteregoHmm, how can I proxy an ssh proxy through an ssh proxy ..20:27
alteregotsocks seems to be f'd up for me at the moment.20:27
rzri packaged connect-proxy20:28
djszapinpm: this reference was published after the Helsinki MeeGo MeetUp20:28
djszapirzr: I might need some packaging help when you have time.20:30
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rzrdjszapi: not before 4 weeks20:57
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MohammadAGdjszapi, IRC should be IRC21:56
djszapinot sure what you mean.21:56
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RST38hmoo javispedro23:21
* javispedro congratulates RST38h because he need not go through the pains of OBS23:22
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RST38hactually, I probably do, for a few of my packages23:25
RST38hnot for all though23:25
RST38h...To have an associate professor who is a member of the Devils Diciples and allegedly dealing methamphetamine is quite alarming. I mean, it's unusual to say the least...23:25
berndhsdid OBS make the professor do it ?23:26
RST38hjavispedro:But look at the bright side - they have got an impressive server farm! =)23:26
javispedroright now, builds take longer than on the original server farm..23:27
javispedroor should I say 770 farm ;)23:27
RST38hok, he is a kinesiology professor, which kinda makes it less interesting23:27
* artemm is thinking about what app create for N9. Something relatively simple as a trial. Anybody lacks something?23:28
javispedrooh, I killed COBS23:30
javispedroor at least I isolated it... its IRC bot is gone..23:30
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* javispedro gives up on COBS today, let's do it the sbox way.23:31
djszapijavispedro: what is up with c-obs ?23:31
* alterego ponders, I want to do a fading slide like on symbian belle in QML, this should be fun.23:31
javispedrodjszapi: seemingly something broke, it's bot is gone from meego-boss23:32
djszapijavispedro: what is this meego-boss channel about ?23:33
javispedroit outputs some logs about what cobs does, afaik.23:34
djszapialso for the Harmattan target ?23:34
djszapigood to know...23:34
djszapiHave you seen it useful for anything so far ?23:35
RST38hjavispedro: you have beaten the OBS?23:35
RST38hdo you get a bonus for that?23:35
javispedrodjszapi: yes, BUILD_SUCCESS/BUILD_FAIL messages23:35
javispedrodjszapi: yes, BUILD_SUCCESS/BUILD_FAIL messages23:35
javispedrooops  =)23:35
javispedroRST38h: nah23:35
djszapijavispedro: why is that useful ?23:36
javispedroso that I know when the build ends23:36
javispedrosince even the triviallest of packages takes a few hours or so when the "Updating..." problem strikes23:37
djszapijavispedro: yep, but you know that failed.23:37
javispedrosometimes it ends up working after that23:38
javispedronot today23:38
djszapiworking after a re-start or in the same process ?23:38
djszapiinteresting, I have never experienced such a thing.23:39
djszapiif it is there on that channel, why cannot it be redirected to the log as well ?23:39
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javispedroI broke not only COBS23:39
javispedrobut all of =)23:40
kimjuthe obs has been having outakes during weekends for several weeks now..23:40
dm8tbrthat's for meego core obs API though23:40
kimjudm8tbr, but that affects cobs too23:40
alteregoIt's a ploy by Intel!23:40
djszapijavispedro: but what does that have to do with Harmattan target on the c-obs ?23:41
dm8tbralthough the harmattan part uses links to the thing23:41
javispedrokimju: nah, not the same thing23:41
javispedrokimju: the C(ommunity) OBS also needs another server up to be working23:41
javispedrothat also seems to spend its days down..23:41
kimjuand meego bugzilla seems to be broken too.23:41
djszapikimju: that is what javispedro said by all of :)23:42
javispedroall of, and it happened right when I typed "osc rebuildpac" :)23:42
dm8tbrthings are slow but not down it seems23:42
javispedrogives 500 here23:42
javispedroHTTP 500 error code, I mean23:43
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dm8tbr - WFM23:43
dm8tbrit's just quite slowwww23:43
dm8tbrsame for wiki.m.c23:43
djszapirip procedure ;)23:44
javispedroso, who wants to break his n950 by trying my fmrx proof of concept?23:44
dm8tbrif all of them would be completely down my icinga would have lit up ##meego-dashboard like a christmas tree23:44
kimjujavispedro, you got it working?23:44
javispedrowas going to put it on f.m.c, but since it is down =)23:44
javispedrokimju: yeah23:45
javispedrokimju: it was virtually a miracle -- I triggered some fmradio code in the policy framework when I was playing with the libresource0 example23:46
javispedrosadly, a few bugs still23:48
javispedrowhile the policy framework turns on BT for me, it always turns off when the fmrx app dies23:48
javispedro*turns it off23:48
javispedrono matter what the user set in preferences23:48
javispedroplus Aegis/permissions don't allow apps to touch ALSA so app needs to run as root23:49
djszapithat is false23:49
javispedrodjszapi: try it if you want: "aplay -Dhw:0,0"23:50
djszapirunning as root is the worst idea ever.23:50
djszapiand as we discussed it yesterday, same as on desktops. :)23:51
javispedroas we discussed Desktops set an ACL that allows access to the currently logged in user23:51
javispedrothat includes Gentoo and OpenSUSE.23:52
djszapinot really, nope, none of desktops, laptops23:52
djszapi* my desktops, laptops23:52
djszapiHence that is probably not the important bit.23:52
javispedro_all_ of my desktops and laptops have this ACL.23:53
javispedroas well as Doc's.23:53
djszapidoes not matter, works without that23:53
djszapiok there are 2 people, and there are other 1000 ok...23:53
javispedrono, it won't.23:53
djszapithis is not a good arguement.23:53
djszapiyes, it does for me as I said.23:53
javispedrodjszapi: strace aplay -Dhw:0,0 and pastebin23:54
javispedroyou are probably using Pulse's fake ALSA and you don't even know..23:54
djszapisince I have zero pulse installed as I really dislike pulse.23:54
javispedroopen("/dev/snd/controlC0", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)23:56
javispedrowhen I remove the ACL23:56
javispedroI don't know what your problem is, maybe your version of ls doesn't show ACLs, maybe you are using OSS, I don't know. But I'm _quite sure_ it works the way I'm describing.23:56
djszapiwell, I have been able to get sound in Gluon for mmm .. 1 year ?23:56
javispedroas said I don't know what's up in your system.23:58
djszapijavispedro: my distribution ships the newest software versions.23:58
djszapithis I do not know, but I am quite sure sounds controversial ;)23:58

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