IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2011-09-04

evilJazz	npm, Qt 4.7.4 Desktop is included in the new Qt SDK, so one can finally use the Qt Quick 1.1 components without the need to compile 4.7.4. Check here: http://meegoharmattandev.blogspot.com/2011/07/setting-up-qt-sdk-for-meego-harmattan.html and skip the compilation step. Worked for me.	00:26
npm	evilJazz: thanks!	00:31
npm	those crazy hazors http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/09/02/what-the-diginotar-security-breach-means-for-qt-users/	00:35
npm	s/hazors/haxors	00:35
npm	well i guess this update means i can deinstall my extra copy of qtcreator 2.3 rc0	00:37
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DocScrutinizer	RST38h: (<javispedro> and PA can capture sound from the radio, but mono 8kHZ only <RST38h> javispedro: 8kHz for radio is not that bad) you're aware that sampling-rate=8kHz means abs max freq in sampled signal = 4kHz? That IS bad for radio even	02:05
javispedro	which is the reason I'm not using PA to capture	02:10
GeneralAntilles	How's progress?	02:11
javispedro	still writing the sample app, had not much time yet	02:11
GeneralAntilles	But you got it working?	02:13
javispedro	yep, fmrx	02:13
GeneralAntilles	Sweet	02:14
javispedro	GeneralAntilles: you clearly weren't there, so http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-09-03.log.html#t2011-09-03T04:35:42 ;)	02:15
GeneralAntilles	Thanks	02:15
GeneralAntilles	I'm quoting that in MWKN	02:15
javispedro	ha	02:15
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javispedro	GeneralAntilles: there's the thread too: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=30683#post30683	02:16
javispedro	probably more useful as a link :)	02:16
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DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: please try to mention in MWKN that this is not in any way a proof that things can get done regarding low level stuff, without proper hw docs	02:19
GeneralAntilles	You're not getting proper hardware docs.	02:21
GeneralAntilles	Let's be realistic. :P	02:21
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=30691#post30691	02:21
DocScrutinizer	GeneralAntilles: please don't act antagonistic. Sure we could get proper docs	02:22
GeneralAntilles	Blog about it so it'd save me from non-expert editorializing in a semi-related story summary?	02:22
GeneralAntilles	(or mailing list or forum or wherever)	02:23
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, irc is javispedro's blog :P	02:24
DocScrutinizer	and DocScrutinizer's blog ;-D	02:24
javispedro	I remember the N900 times when there was that rather big "problem" with the initial fmradio implementation in that seemingly some N900s were left without working microphone	02:25
javispedro	(until reboot? until reflash? all I know is that it was fixable)	02:25
GeneralAntilles	That was a software issue, no?	02:25
DocScrutinizer	yeah, sth like "fried permanently, send in to fix it"	02:25
javispedro	I do remember someone said his had to be sent to fix, but I think it was not caused by the same issue	02:25
javispedro	there was talks about hw defects in mics too.	02:26
lcuk	yeah	02:26
lcuk	one of n900s here had no mic	02:26
DocScrutinizer	in the end we missed proper docs to avoid it and to find out the true nature of the defects	02:26
lcuk	tracy used it as her angry birds rig	02:26
javispedro	either way, I'm more confident in my solution	02:27
javispedro	there's no raw hci commands any longer	02:27
javispedro	and not even changes to hw:0 mixer, just hw:2	02:27
javispedro	plus pulse is used for all output	02:27
javispedro	and libresource is used to avoid being around during phone calls	02:28
javispedro	I do think it could cause conflicts with BT audio, though.	02:28
alterego	javispedro: congrats!!	02:29
lcuk	what other unutilised hw is there?	02:29
alterego	fmtx? :)	02:29
javispedro	lcuk: a 1Ghz processor! =)	02:29
lcuk	javispedro, ?	02:29
javispedro	;P	02:29
javispedro	need killer app ;)	02:29
lcuk	alterego, you are meant to say Thanks! on http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=30683#post30683	02:29
alterego	how about the opencl capable gfx chip. do that! :P	02:30
lcuk	javispedro :)	02:30
lcuk	javispedro, also are you meaning there is a whole 1ghz processor idling?	02:30
* lcuk made first qml app yesterday		02:31
javispedro	heh	02:31
lcuk	actually, not my first	02:31
lcuk	but first to include sketches	02:31
lcuk	actually, bitmap caches of sketches	02:31
GeneralAntilles	javispedro, yes, the hw issue was unrelated to the FMRX issue.	02:31
lcuk	because for the love of all things i couldnt get rendering speed up	02:31
GeneralAntilles	One was pycage not handling audio interface capture/release properly (do to shit docs) and one was a manufacturing defect.	02:32
lcuk	javispedro, I pondered using pygame	02:32
javispedro	pygame looks quite nice	02:32
lcuk	pygame is just the simple bindings to sdl	02:32
javispedro	I need to try how it looks when you use my SDL with it, though	02:32
lcuk	as you know	02:32
alterego	I wanna have a look at gluon some time soon.	02:33
javispedro	yeah	02:33
lcuk	alterego, :D	02:33
lcuk	leinir will help no doubt	02:33
javispedro	gluon is also a good idea	02:33
alterego	Tomorrow I'm gonna attempt hacking harmattan home screens.	02:33
javispedro	alterego: in gluon? :)	02:33
alterego	Really want a 4th vertically scrollable widget view.	02:33
lcuk	javispedro, is pygame default and usable on symbian do you think?	02:33
alterego	javispedro: it's a game framework for Qt with Qml UI capabilities.	02:34
alterego	lcuk: unlikey, python on symbian isn't well maintained.	02:34
lcuk	alterego, you mean on swipe?	02:34
alterego	lcuk: yes	02:34
javispedro	lcuk: no idea...	02:34
lcuk	i suggested that a while ago	02:34
lcuk	i think all apps should be listed there ;)	02:34
javispedro	lcuk: oh, http://code.google.com/p/pygame-symbian-s60/	02:34
alterego	I want a forth swipe view with the original harmattan style widget display.	02:34
lcuk	javispedro, :)	02:34
alterego	If you remember tyhose sketches.	02:34
lcuk	wonder how performance is with some detailed sketches	02:35
alterego	I don't care if I have to reimplement the whole harmattan home stuff :P	02:35
lcuk	alterego, I have many original harmattan sketches	02:35
lcuk	:)	02:35
alterego	I'll do it just for a new meego handset ux :)	02:35
alterego	It really would take me less than a day to clone the whole harmattan home ux	02:35
lcuk	heh doubt it	02:36
alterego	I reckon less than four hours.	02:36
lcuk	that is like one of my time estimate	02:36
lcuk	6 months later ..	02:36
alterego	The hardest part is the task switcher view.	02:36
lcuk	whats hard about it?	02:36
javispedro	lcuk: nah, those qml experts feel that they can do whatever UI they want in minutes ;)	02:36
alterego	the transitions, because I don't know off hand how to do it :)	02:37
javispedro	then the problems start when it comes to make it use the live data instead of hardcoded ;)	02:37
alterego	But I do have an idea.	02:37
lcuk	javispedro, "openswipe.diff" patch in liqbase is amusing	02:37
javispedro	swiping between apps is a webos idea ;)	02:38
alterego	okay, I may be under estimating, I'd need to implement all of the moving around of app launchers and those context menus. But that's not hard either.	02:38
lcuk	javispedro, hildon desktop	02:38
javispedro	alterego: .desktop file parsing, texture from pixmap, ...	02:38
javispedro	alterego: that alone would take me weeks and I know about it =)	02:39
alterego	.desktop is easy, they're just .ini files.	02:39
javispedro	oh well	02:39
* lcuk loves optimism		02:39
alterego	texture from pixma, is pretty easy, all in QPixmap and Qimage	02:39
lcuk	alterego, most important thing: have fun whilst coding	02:39
javispedro	aka überslow	02:39
alterego	Exactly :)	02:39
lcuk	my e-cig needs recharging	02:40
* lcuk should not have woken back up		02:40
alterego	I'd probably work on something with qml2 and Qt5 though,	02:40
javispedro	oh, pupnik, where are thou	02:40
alterego	Qt compositor and all that new jazz	02:40
lcuk	alterego, qml2 or rather qt quick 2 should have nice fast line rendering in js	02:41
* alterego has just got back from a wedding, really need to get out of this suit.		02:41
lcuk	heh	02:41
alterego	brb	02:41
lcuk	no wonder you are thinking	02:41
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lcuk	javispedro, i made a qml app	02:42
lcuk	and had to cache pre-rendered sketches	02:42
lcuk	at various resolutions	02:42
javispedro	aha	02:42
lcuk	since "new qml for each resolution"	02:42
javispedro	reminds me of qgraphicsview =)	02:42
lcuk	but it seems so wasteful	02:42
lcuk	there are 9 sketches on the app	02:42
javispedro	ah, you mean cache before runtim?	02:43
javispedro	*runtime	02:43
lcuk	oh yeah	02:43
lcuk	i wrote an export from liqbase	02:43
lcuk	for what is a native simple task there	02:43
lcuk	"show a grid of sketches"	02:43
javispedro	I was positively surprised with qgraphicsview performance	02:43
javispedro	I wrote an app that renders the sketches I make with my smartpen -- we are talking about probably 4000 segments or so	02:44
javispedro	I just threw them all to qgv as PathItems	02:44
javispedro	and it was snappy	02:44
javispedro	it must done of those fancy algorithms with bounding boxes	02:45
javispedro	*must do	02:45
lcuk	might have to have a look	02:46
alterego	Yeah, qgv is serious voodoo	02:46
lcuk	writing on n950 screen isnt as comfortable	02:46
alterego	I feel ashamed, I' using N8 as primary phone and N900 as primary mobile computer.	02:47
lcuk	why ashamed	02:47
alterego	I don't use the N950 as much as I probably should.	02:47
javispedro	alterego: don't. now you'll root for the NIT series to be back!	02:47
lcuk	n8 is awesome	02:47
* javispedro wouldn't use a symbian phone. but a featurephone I'd virtually never use and a NIT? oh yeah!		02:48
javispedro	in fact, come to think of it..	02:48
javispedro	wheres the tablet mode/phone mode app for the n950!!	02:48
alterego	The harmattan browser is a bit lame for what I expect. No cut & paste in terminal caused me to ditch the N950 as a N900 replacement.	02:48
lcuk	javispedro, how many qgv can be used?	02:49
lcuk	are each heavy	02:49
alterego	And the video playback in the N900 is superior than the N950 at the moment for watching tv/film rips.	02:49
javispedro	lcuk: no idea, but you're supposed to use only one	02:49
lcuk	ie would making a subclass and using it be feasible	02:49
lcuk	that sucks	02:49
javispedro	lcuk: then you can use as many items as necessary	02:49
alterego	lcuk: you should really have one qgv and draw to differen areas.	02:49
javispedro	items can have other items and so on	02:49
alterego	Like mtf	02:49
lcuk	javispedro, sure	02:50
lcuk	but a gallery of several hundred sketches	02:50
lcuk	do I then need to manage the positioning and scrolling	02:50
javispedro	nah	02:50
lcuk	to render in place	02:50
alterego	There was a small period before my columbus qml port work where I was doing plain qgv rendering.	02:50
javispedro	just make it 6000000x6000000 pixels	02:50
alterego	Was fun :)	02:50
javispedro	:)	02:50
lcuk	javispedro, sure	02:50
lcuk	but mouse events	02:50
javispedro	my paper thing was 3000x4000 or something like that	02:51
lcuk	which sketch was clicked on	02:51
lcuk	yes, you had a single page	02:51
alterego	lcuk: child items inhrit their parents coordinate system.	02:51
alterego	It's like qml in that respect.	02:51
javispedro	yeah, it's pretty well thought out.	02:51
javispedro	alterego: afaik qml is like it because qml uses it ;)	02:51
lcuk	alterego, so I can add child elements each with a sketch	02:51
alterego	javispedro: indeed ;)	02:51
alterego	lcuk: yup :)	02:52
lcuk	and still deal with mousing and clicks etc as normal	02:52
lcuk	but render using the parent	02:52
lcuk	sounds complicated	02:52
alterego	yup, even the mouse/pointer handling is easy and intuitive/flexible.	02:52
* lcuk couldnt know how to start that		02:52
lcuk	i should find way to get some contracted help :)	02:52
alterego	lcuk: try doing something simple with qgv :)	02:52
javispedro	the problem I think is with dynamic data	02:52
javispedro	if you want to show something static (a wall of sketches for ex.) it is easy	02:53
javispedro	you should think of the view as the "viewport" and the scene as the entire wall, with each item being a sketch, that contains paths/segments as other items, etc.	02:53
alterego	javispedro: you can push redraw/damage events	02:53
lcuk	javispedro, calendar gets updated via asynchronous syncronisation	02:53
alterego	javispedro: on a per qgv item basis	02:53
lcuk	infact all the grids do	02:54
javispedro	alterego: yes, but while it is easy to build a qgv model from data, it might be hard to update it without recreating, depending on how your data is	02:54
lcuk	cal/journal/tasks :)	02:54
lcuk	javispedro, did you see the tasks/todo ui?	02:54
javispedro	I kinda remember so :)	02:55
lcuk	alterego, did you read the t&c of that nokia thing couple of days ago?	02:56
alterego	lcuk: not sure what you're refering to.	02:56
* javispedro raises hears		02:56
alterego	javispedro: have you checked you fmrx profile using the system monitor app on the N950	02:57
alterego	It does monitor battry consumption I think.	02:57
javispedro	"fmrx profile" "system monitor app"?	02:57
lcuk	alterego, nokia sent mail out to #n950club	02:57
javispedro	aa	02:57
alterego	(wrt to one of the follow up posts)	02:57
alterego	lcuk: must have missed it, got a link?	02:57
javispedro	alterego: it won't be great, exactly same problem as n900 radio has	02:57
javispedro	alterego: there will be a thread copying audio data	02:57
lcuk	if you missed it, no	02:57
lcuk	it says i am not allowed :P	02:58
alterego	Hah	02:58
javispedro	lcuk: ah, so that mail is legit?	02:58
alterego	it was an email?	02:58
lcuk	well ronan confirmed it	02:58
javispedro	ah well	02:58
alterego	I never got an email ...	02:58
alterego	does that mean I'm exempt?	02:59
lcuk	heh	02:59
berndhs	i thought the email was in poor taste	03:00
djszapi	alterego: do not forget the fact, we do not provide stable API yet with Gluon. It does not mean it is bad, just for knowing.	03:00
javispedro	berndhs: yes	03:00
alterego	djszapi: :)	03:00
alterego	djszapi: I've got no serious ideas, would just like to play.	03:00
javispedro	berndhs: my spam filter did not reject it, but I did..	03:00
lcuk	javispedro, I am gonna submit an app to it, not sure what yet	03:01
lcuk	but I don't see why not	03:01
* lcuk will find some kind of awesome simple app somewhere in his catalogue		03:02
lcuk	infact the one I was mucking around with might work	03:02
djszapi	alterego: Also, we have right now only 2d graphics engine.	03:03
javispedro	the kind of apps I'm thinking would probably get millions of downloads but not pass QA ;)	03:03
alterego	Heh	03:05
alterego	lcuk: that ms thing appears to be on the 10th of oct	03:07
alterego	Just found a general mail about a london ms wp dev thing from nokia developer.	03:07
berndhs	where is the market for these supposed downloads, geographically ?	03:07
javispedro	also	03:07
javispedro	will they ever ship the required number of N9s? ;)	03:07
lcuk	alterego, you should have contacted wk still	03:08
lcuk	can most likely get dev device too	03:08
alterego	lcuk: gonna do it on monday. Are you not attending?	03:08
lcuk	i want to, have to work out how to proceed beyond this month though first	03:09
lcuk	before I even consider next ;)	03:09
alterego	Fair enough :)	03:09
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djszapi	alterego: feel free to ask us about Gluon when you need help with it.	03:19
alterego	Will do, any work going on with 3D?	03:20
djszapi	we were trying to work on as less hard coded options as possible. Manpower lack is unfortunately always a factor in bigger FOSS projects.	03:22
djszapi	architecturally speaking, there is no limitation for that though. I am not aware of anybody right away working on 3D support.	03:22
alterego	m'kay	03:23
djszapi	I think for instance the asset importing could be done after with 3d effects, but I think we do not support it yet. Since we had a flexible approach, and the game editor is also being developed to not state 2d hard coded things, I think it would not be that hard to change. We should consider the texture memory usage a bit more for that though since that would be more radical.	03:26
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Termana	morning	03:44
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twoboxen	hey all	05:42
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Venemo	~seen wazd	08:47
infobot	wazd <~wazd@broadband-95-84-185-178.nationalcablenetworks.ru> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 9h 1m 10s ago, saying: 'http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=30705#post30705 <- tada! :)'.	08:47
Venemo	and indeed	08:47
Venemo	wazd's app ROCKS!!!	08:47
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rzr	Venemo: under wich licence ?	10:18
Venemo	dunno	10:19
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wazd	heya all	12:04
Stskeeps	lo	12:05
Elessar	hello	12:05
wazd	We've fixed some major bugs in MeeCast so you're all welcome to update	12:06
Elessar	wazd: what's about SectionScroller at Country/City choosing dialogs?	12:08
Elessar	I was scrolling to Yekaterinburg for a minute, surely ;)	12:09
wazd	Elessar: yeah, all settings are mostly placeholders	12:12
wazd	Elessar: the problem is that we're not using MeegoTouch components	12:12
Elessar	SectionSroller exists at QML	12:13
wazd	Elessar: the thing I really wanted to add is search bar like in contacts for example	12:13
Elessar	I've used it already with ListView	12:14
Elessar	wazd: do you use c++ models or what?	12:14
Elessar	I know that SectionScroller fails with QAbstractItemMode, but I know how to hook it to work	12:14
Elessar	*Model	12:14
wazd	Elessar: our devs are offline currently so I can't ask them, but I surely will, thanks :)	12:17
Elessar	wazd: take a look at this list model with filter ability https://github.com/euroelessar/qutim/blob/meego/plugins/meegointegration/meegoapplicationwindow/src/contactlistmodel.cpp It's already hooked so it works with SectionScroller	12:18
Elessar	or send this link to your developers :)	12:18
wazd	cool, thanks	12:19
Elessar	what is need - you should bind TextField's "text" property to this model's "filter" one, and don't forget to emit countChanged signal for proper SectionScroller's update	12:20
Elessar	I spent some hours to understand why it doesn't work with QAbstractItemModel %)	12:21
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djszapi	rzr: wanna package festival ?	13:39
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Venemo	hey wazd	13:46
Venemo	wazd, your app is pure awesomeness, but it keeps secrets from me!	13:46
Venemo	wazd, it doesn't want to tell me the weather on monday	13:47
alterego	Heh	13:48
Venemo	I see in the forum that this got fixed since :)	13:48
Venemo	wazd, also, feel free to use my WorkingSelectionDialog component which has a filtering search box... or use fiferboy's tuned up version for extra performance :) for the setup eg. city/country/etc selection	13:48
* alterego ponders a movie to watch tonight		13:49
alterego	Might raid my sisters dvd collection whilst I'm at my parents.	13:50
Venemo	:)	13:52
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lardman	morning	14:00
lardman	I guess people have already worked it out, but that competition is kosher according to Quim	14:00
lardman	apologies for the slow update, was a long afternoon and night....	14:00
alterego	:)	14:01
RST38h	moo lardman, yea, we know since yesterday	14:01
RST38h	not that it is of any importance, given the required 10k threshold	14:01
berndhs	the successful candidate would specifically target the markets where the N9 is sold first	14:04
berndhs	where is that ?	14:04
Venemo	RST38h, what do we know since yesteday?	14:05
SpeedEvil	I had a really good idea - but it's only for the UK - so ...	14:07
RST38h	Venemo: the qt contest is legit	14:08
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Venemo	RST38h, ah, that! thx :)	14:15
Venemo	SpeedEvil, only for the UK?	14:15
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lardman	RST38h: yeah, would be interesting to know whether the UK and US are definitely out	14:19
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alterego	If you want numbers, then I wouldn't write a UK or US centric app ;)	14:21
SpeedEvil	Venemo: Integrating with a UK only store.	14:23
Venemo	ah.	14:23
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ieatlint	this the qtinnovationchallenge?	14:27
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Elessar	djszapi: you've told yeasterday about some synchronization tool, what have you mean exactly?	14:34
djszapi	Elessar: actually I found another interesting project for you.	14:35
djszapi	Elessar: read the N900->N950 migration page, and you can see my hackaround for exporting from files (contacts).	14:35
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djszapi	another idea would be a Qt text-to-speech engine I would use in my dictionary for instance instead of plain festival, espeak QProcess calls.	14:36
djszapi	this QtSpeech is rather poor yet, but would be useful like ktts. Not sure what the architecture design is for the Qt Accesibility project though.	14:36
rzr	djszapi: the speech one ?	14:37
djszapi	rzr: sorry ?	14:37
rzr	about festival	14:37
rzr	i can try to import it	14:38
djszapi	yep, for the time being. However I would like to see a QSpeech engine for these stuff inside the Qt Accessibility project. Thinking of posting it on qt5-feedback	14:38
Elessar	djszapi: can you give me link to this page?	14:38
rzr	i have ton of stuff to be done today	14:38
djszapi	Elessar: http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#Contacts	14:39
djszapi	rzr: festival is a hefty stuffy	14:39
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Elessar	djszapi: you want to have contact migration tool? should it just get QContactManager, get all contacts from it, import them to vcard file, then open them at other device and push them again to QContactManager?	14:43
djszapi	Elessar: no idea about the internals, sorry. :) I just feel the use case of it to make it from Ui, not cli.	14:44
alterego	meego already has a contact migration tool that should somewhat work on Harmattan.	14:44
alterego	In pretty much exactly the way you described ;)	14:44
alterego	We use it for migrating contacts from maemo to meego CE on the N900	14:44
djszapi	Elessar: I would actually prefer if the current Ui would be extended with it.	14:45
Elessar	Nokia's migration tool works well for me to import contacts from my 5800 to n950	14:45
djszapi	not a separate application, if one already existing for this use case.	14:45
djszapi	Elessar: yeah, but that is not from file.	14:45
Elessar	djszapi: hm, how is it should work?	14:46
djszapi	Elessar: pretty simple, N950 has an old image, that seems to import files, so that Ui is fine.	14:46
djszapi	BUT	14:46
Elessar	I can't understand how is it possible to extended existen application	14:46
djszapi	the background operation is a large hack a I do really dislike since you can even import a browser... This option was pulled out on the new images because of this.	14:47
djszapi	So that functionality is simply missing.	14:47
djszapi	and after I got rid of N900, I do not have any storage left, just my PC. Since I reflash my device a lot, I now need to make it from cli which is not nice.	14:48
lardman	is there a spreadsheet app for Harmattan?	14:49
djszapi	I can open excel files with the calligra frontend	14:51
djszapi	so, yes.	14:52
Elessar	djszapi: n950 contains libflite, have you heard smth about it?	14:54
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djszapi	apt-cache search and packrat give no results	14:56
Elessar	package name is libflite1	14:57
djszapi	no result, really.	14:57
Elessar	oh	14:57
Elessar	it's in repos	14:57
Elessar	hm, but I haven't added any sources to apt	14:58
djszapi	which repo ?	15:00
djszapi	obs has zero results for flite, libflite, libflite1	15:01
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Elessar	developer@N950 /home/developer $ apt-cache search libflite	15:02
Elessar	libflite1 - a small run-time speech synthesis engine - shared libraries	15:02
Elessar	dunno what repo, don't know how to get it's name	15:02
djszapi	you can see the link while downloading.	15:04
djszapi	flite site:http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/ -> zero result as well	15:05
Elessar	Получено:1 https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ libflite1 1.4-release-3 [14.3MB]	15:05
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djszapi	Elessar: true, it is installable from the device, but not from scratchbox or from the Nokia public repository...	15:10
* RST38h still does not understand how harmattan-dev repository can exist without the Packages or Packages.gz file		15:10
djszapi	Elessar: I would not like to use a different engine than a Qt one.	15:11
djszapi	Elessar: We might need for the answer here about that though: http://labs.qt.nokia.com/2011/08/23/accessibility-on-linux/#comment-27459	15:11
djszapi	to wait*	15:11
rzr	djszapi: depends on esd	15:11
djszapi	rzr: what depends on esd ?	15:12
rzr	festival	15:12
djszapi	rzr: right, I will actually not use festival after all, I think.	15:13
djszapi	I contribute back to Qt Accessibility instead.	15:13
rzr	if some want it please fork that one https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=esound&project=home%3Arzr%3Adebian	15:14
lardman	I added flite to the Fremantle repos	15:15
* lardman reads the backlogs		15:15
lardman	djszapi: where does one find the calligra fontend?	15:16
djszapi	Documents text on the applauncher page.	15:16
lardman	ah I see, are the docs editable though?	15:16
djszapi	at least deletable. I am not finding anything for editing.	15:18
Elessar	djszapi: don't you know whuich formats are supported by documents app?	15:18
RST38h	lardman: harmattan repo fromnokia	15:19
RST38h	86MB though	15:19
lardman	RST38h: do we have .install files yet, or is this a manual edit of the conf files?	15:19
djszapi	elessar: nope without looking into the code, but pretty much all known format I have ever had so far.	15:19
RST38h	lardman: manual edit	15:20
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RST38h	lardman: it does look like we will not get a new HAM	15:20
lardman	well that's a shame, though HAM would have been bad news anyway ;)	15:20
djszapi	Elessar: meaning that, pdf, excel, odf presentation, Microsoft Powerpoint, OpenDocument Text and the like.	15:20
RST38h	lardman: you are supposed to install stuff from ovi store =)	15:20
lardman	RST38h: are there any instructons on the wiki for adding new repos, etc.? lists and so on?	15:21
lardman	yeah, all well and good when doing development work of course ;)	15:21
RST38h	lardman: simply edit the /etc/apt/source.d/somesourcefile	15:21
RST38h	you can add your own, apt will take them	15:21
lardman	and do we have a list of repos anywhere?	15:21
gri	Are there any new on a scratchbox sdk update? I hate it's missing all parts of messaging and commhistory-daemon can't be built ...	15:22
* lardman has been concentrating on his own apps		15:22
gri	any news*	15:22
Elessar	djszapi: is there any ability to add new formats to it?	15:22
Elessar	may be I can just create djvu backend for this app?	15:22
djszapi	Venemo: irc-chatter stopped working again... Same connection issue...	15:25
djszapi	Elessar: you need to talk to Zagge, I am afraid.	15:26
Elessar	where can I find him?	15:26
djszapi	#calligra, #koffice	15:26
djszapi	but I would first grep for "djvu" in the calligra codebase	15:29
djszapi	https://projects.kde.org/search/index/calligra?projects=1&q=djvu	15:29
Venemo	djszapi, if you enable/disable ssl, will it work again?	15:30
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djszapi	Venemo, if I can get a gold fish I guess :p	15:31
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djszapi	Venemo it is weird	15:31
djszapi	Venemo: my last guess is that, I cannot connect to the channels if I somehow have 2.5, not 3.5	15:32
djszapi	but it is just a guess-work	15:32
Venemo	weird, it works for me on 2.5G too, but it connects a lot slower	15:32
djszapi	interesting.	15:32
Venemo	but if the connection is not working, then it will display "connecting" forever.	15:40
Venemo	I will add some safeguards to check for the connection state before connecting	15:42
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alterego	Hurp, I should have formatted this ntfs ..	16:12
alterego	How do you back up a 30G file onto a fat filesystem.	16:12
tomma_	split it to 4G files?	16:13
RST38h	lardman: no but it is really standard debian way	16:13
alterego	urgh	16:13
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Venemo	alterego, reformat in ntfs, or any other sane file system	16:16
alterego	Kind of late now I've copied over 300G of stuff on to it :P	16:18
alterego	Ah, I know what I can do.	16:20
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Venemo	alterego, isn't there some file system converter tool?	16:34
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alterego	I don't really want to risk losing my data with some crazy filesystem tools :P	16:35
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alterego	Getting some really erratic download speeds on my server at the moment ..	16:52
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* alterego wonders how long it'd take him to mirror the core ubuntu repositories.		17:09
arcean	i'm receiving _empty_ replies from com.nokia.wlancond, could it be correlated with aegis?	17:10
arcean	where on Maemo everything's ok	17:11
MohammadAG	alterego, should be done before the next MeeGo device is out	17:13
alterego	Heh	17:13
* MohammadAG goes looking for intern jobs in Israel		17:13
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: so GSoC this year? :P	17:15
hiemanshu	well next	17:15
MohammadAG	who? :P	17:15
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: you :P	17:15
hiemanshu	now that you are in college	17:15
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djszapiN9	venemo, i would hide the # from the user completely, on the query/channel add page	18:02
djszapiN9	just a selection and name typing	18:02
djszapiN9	cli geeks can use join, and the ui should be the simplest	18:03
SpeedEvil	It's a pity freenode breaks that somewhat	18:04
SpeedEvil	With ## channels	18:04
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djszapiN9	mmm, i need a touch friendly reviewboard client	18:12
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djszapiN9	venemo, mmm irc-chatter keeps crashing	18:24
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antman8969	has anyone gotten the n950 to sync with google calendars?	19:00
Venemo	djszapiN9, what are you doing when it crashes, and what does the app do when it crashes?	19:01
djszapiN9	venemo random, but for instance tab changr	19:09
Venemo	djszapiN9, and what happens then? the app just segfaults?	19:09
djszapiN9	crashes	19:10
Venemo	weird.	19:10
Venemo	never happened for me.	19:10
djszapiN9	yeah, would prolly need a valgrind analization	19:11
djszapiN9	i am in an urgent need of a code review client for touch hadgets	19:14
Venemo	well, I can not really test it on the firmware you are using, so... :(	19:15
djszapiN9	do not cry :p	19:15
* Venemo wants new software for his N950		19:16
Venemo	djszapiN9, will such software be released for us when the N9 hits the markets?	19:16
djszapiN9	how should i know ? ;)	19:16
Venemo	maybe you could ask some of your colleagues at Nokia? :P	19:17
djszapiN9	i do not have a topmanager friend with big ties ;)	19:17
Venemo	then ask the one without big ties :P	19:18
Venemo	joking aside, new software would really help our development efforts.	19:18
djszapiN9	someone is addict ? :p	19:18
Venemo	:P	19:18
Venemo	well, I dunno what happens if I don't get the new software!	19:19
djszapiN9	3rd world war casus belli!!!	19:19
Venemo	:P	19:20
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djszapiN9	i think i will make a touch friendly reviewboard client	19:22
djszapiN9	very hard to comment on the patch from the browser	19:22
Venemo	mhm	19:23
djszapiN9	should be fairly straight-forward	19:24
djszapiN9	provided they have an api and that is clean enough	19:25
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djszapiN9	venemo crash series again	19:27
Venemo	I see...	19:27
djszapiN9	prolly something is dangling	19:27
djszapiN9	valgtind is your friend	19:27
Venemo	yeah, the only "problem" is that it hasn't behaved this way for anyone else, but you.	19:28
djszapiN9	that does mean nothing	19:28
djszapiN9	valgrind can report things like dangling without the crash	19:29
Venemo	all right, I will check it with valgrind then	19:29
djszapiN9	dangling stuff canöcause "random" crash	19:30
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djszapiN9	it might also be that, the library is buggy, not the standalone code	19:31
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djszapiN9	crash again	19:32
djszapiN9	when i would like to see the people list and then i press x	19:32
djszapiN9	that caused this time	19:33
Venemo	weird	19:34
Venemo	the app has never crashed for me at all, despite the fact that I literally use it every day	19:34
djszapiN9	also there is anotheröbug	19:34
Venemo	well, I do use the latest stable release... :P	19:35
Venemo	maybe there is something that makes the newer version segfault	19:35
djszapiN9	if i check the people list out and then i press x	19:35
djszapiN9	it opens up a query	19:35
Venemo	ahm	19:35
Venemo	hiemanshu, knock-knock	19:35
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djszapiN9	slep his nail with a hammer :p	19:36
djszapiN9	slap*	19:36
Venemo	xD	19:36
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hiemanshu	Venemo: yeah?	19:38
hiemanshu	djszapiN9: yes, that has been fixed in a newer release	19:39
Venemo	hiemanshu, read what djszapiN9 wrote	19:39
hiemanshu	Venemo: FIXED NEXTRELEASE :P	19:39
Venemo	hiemanshu, ok, get djszapiN9 to update.	19:40
djszapiN9	venemo also get rid of this geekish queru/channel open ui pls	19:40
Venemo	djszapiN9, what are you proposing instead?	19:40
hiemanshu	geek-ish?	19:40
Venemo	what is geekish in one text field?	19:40
djszapiN9	i said it more times	19:41
djszapiN9	who cares about marker, #	19:41
Venemo	channel names begin with #	19:41
djszapiN9	i would make a selection and just an input field	19:41
hiemanshu	djszapiN9: what do you do with ## chans then?	19:41
djszapiN9	we do not care	19:41
Venemo	ok, I get it.	19:42
Venemo	so what do you recommend instead?	19:42
hiemanshu	if you are going to ask the user if its a # or ## you might as well have them enter it	19:42
djszapiN9	simple ui hides as much lowlevel stuff ss possible	19:43
hiemanshu	sure, but how do you differentiate between # and ## ?	19:44
djszapiN9	so a selection is way more usable	19:44
hiemanshu	ofc	19:44
hiemanshu	sure, but how do you differentiate between # and ## ?	19:44
djszapiN9	i do not know how it is relevant	19:45
hiemanshu	a lot of channels are ##, and they have channels with the same name with #	19:45
hiemanshu	if there is a selection, how do you differentiage?	19:46
SpeedEvil	But are there any active ones on both?	19:46
hiemanshu	differentiage*	19:46
hiemanshu	SpeedEvil: #fedora and ##fedora	19:46
djszapiN9	no	19:46
djszapiN9	i do not care about this corner case	19:46
hiemanshu	I do	19:46
hiemanshu	and this is not a corner case	19:46
djszapiN9	corner case, you can write -1- #	19:46
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djszapiN9	and NOT 2	19:47
djszapiN9	and always bloating it because of a corner case	19:47
hiemanshu	tell that to gnome, who made big buttons for .3% of the computer users	19:47
MohammadAG	IRC should be IRC	19:48
djszapiN9	to be honest, it even simplifies the corner case as wrll	19:48
djszapiN9	and that is why it is rather irrelevant	19:48
MohammadAG	both your points are irrelevant	19:48
MohammadAG	it should be # and ##	19:48
hiemanshu	MohammadAG: I am saying what you just said, it should be # and ##	19:48
MohammadAG	you shouldn't be the one simplifying IRC	19:49
MohammadAG	hiemanshu++	19:49
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djszapiN9	made my day :ddddddddd	19:50
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djszapiN9	so you are basically say it should be crap all the time, instead of just really corner cases	19:54
hiemanshu	if you want to fix it, patches are welcome	19:54
MohammadAG	no, I'm saying you shouldn't be skype-ifying IRC	19:54
djszapiN9	it is not about patches	19:54
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hiemanshu	hmmm, I have a saner way to do it	19:55
hiemanshu	and to keep both happy	19:56
djszapiN9	if you wanna this crap, just use join	19:56
Venemo	djszapiN9, if channel names don't begin with a #, then how do you distinguish channel names and user names?	19:56
djszapiN9	please do not make ywo crappy interfaces	19:56
hiemanshu	good idea, lets just remove that window, problem solved	19:56
ajalkane	How about it adds # if its missing, otherwise use channel as given?	19:57
hiemanshu	djszapiN9: like I said, if you have a way to fix it, patches are welcome	19:57
djszapiN9	hiemanshu i will help zero for a design i heavily dislike	19:57
djszapiN9	with a design*	19:58
hiemanshu	djszapiN9: then stop whining about it please	19:58
djszapiN9	nobody is whining, try to be gentle	19:58
djszapiN9	venemo so any character can be the first or some of them ?	19:59
Venemo	djszapiN9, you can write any character. if the first one is a #, it's going to join a channel. if the first one is not a #, it will query a user.	20:00
Venemo	djszapiN9, I could add a button or a check box that adds/removes the # automatically	20:00
djszapiN9	yes, so i still stick by	20:00
Venemo	or maybe I should add two separate dialogs for joining a channel and querying a user.	20:01
hiemanshu	Venemo: query to click works, you want something more?	20:01
Venemo	hiemanshu, I mean, two different dialogs with one text field.	20:02
hiemanshu	well nope, lets concentrate on the GUI re-design first	20:02
djszapiN9	venemo that does not solve the ## issue	20:03
Venemo	agreed, but this could be part of it.	20:03
Venemo	djszapiN9, hmmm, you are right.	20:03
djszapiN9	nothing solves that, but	20:03
djszapiN9	my idea would simplofy the 90%	20:03
djszapiN9	and would also let you type fewer character in 10%	20:03
hiemanshu	lets just make it understand brainwaves, problem solved	20:04
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djszapi	Venemo: so a selection and typing	20:05
djszapi	and (bracket: be aware with extra # with his 10%)	20:05
djszapi	the bracket is now insane there anyway	20:06
Venemo	all right, I'll see what I can do.	20:06
djszapi	it tells me to write one #	20:06
djszapi	so it is even worse how it is anyway	20:06
ajalkane	Irc channels, whenever referenced, are almost always written with beginning #. Having fe. #harmattan to direct to ##harmattan would be very broken design	20:06
djszapi	but the thing is that, you could hide the beginning character in 90%	20:06
Venemo	I have some recent real life issues (GF issues if you must know), so it might be some time before I can even start thinking about it.	20:07
djszapi	no hurry.	20:07
Venemo	in fact, I don't think that writing a single character is such a great deal.	20:07
djszapi	clicking is certainly easier than looking for that character on the VKB	20:07
Venemo	it's only two taps on the VKB	20:07
djszapi	which is not even on the first layout...	20:07
djszapi	yes, clicking is one	20:07
djszapi	considering that, if someone changes the layout improperly...	20:08
djszapi	again, if someone is really addict of "#", he can just use join in my opinion. No need to replicate the same way	20:10
hiemanshu	so, you want to make people type 5 extra chars?	20:10
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hiemanshu	make that 6 with the extra space	20:11
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djszapi	hiemanshu: fail to see why geeks could not want that...	20:11
djszapi	just like vi and terminal on the phone...	20:11
djszapi	but that is a really different use case.	20:12
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djszapi	Venemo Venemo_N950 there is another bug :)	20:14
djszapi	if I use an erroneus nickname, it does not report the issue properly. webchat.freenode.net does.	20:14
djszapi	it gives me an error code (say integer number), that is	20:14
Venemo_N950	yeah, that needs fixing.	20:14
MohammadAG	don't get rid of the damn #	20:16
MohammadAG	it's IRC gdi	20:16
* npm finds actual reference to N950 on nokia.com http://qt.nokia.com/files/pdf/pla-n950.pdf/view		20:17
djszapi	Venemo_N950: also, rather annoying if I join a channel, I do not get the channel in the focus	20:17
djszapi	say, with /join ...	20:17
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djszapi	MohammadAG: you are rather wrong. There are already webclients working without that just nicely.	20:19
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djszapi	the first like that I used was 10 years ago or so.	20:20
djszapi	also, this case is not just corner case to have more, but even mostly freenode specific, so #debian-mentors on ircnet, or the harmattan developers on other networks would benefit nothing from it.	20:24
djszapi	http://freenode.net/policy.shtml#channelnaming	20:25
rzr	hi do gmail's msexchange support do http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_e-mail ?	20:26
alterego	Hmm, how can I proxy an ssh proxy through an ssh proxy ..	20:27
alterego	tsocks seems to be f'd up for me at the moment.	20:27
rzr	i packaged connect-proxy	20:28
djszapi	npm: this reference was published after the Helsinki MeeGo MeetUp	20:28
djszapi	rzr: I might need some packaging help when you have time.	20:30
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rzr	djszapi: not before 4 weeks	20:57
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MohammadAG	djszapi, IRC should be IRC	21:56
djszapi	not sure what you mean.	21:56
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rzr	http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?p=30754#post30754	22:08
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RST38h	moo javispedro	23:21
javispedro	moo	23:21
* javispedro congratulates RST38h because he need not go through the pains of OBS		23:22
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RST38h	actually, I probably do, for a few of my packages	23:25
RST38h	not for all though	23:25
RST38h	...To have an associate professor who is a member of the Devils Diciples and allegedly dealing methamphetamine is quite alarming. I mean, it's unusual to say the least...	23:25
berndhs	did OBS make the professor do it ?	23:26
RST38h	javispedro:But look at the bright side - they have got an impressive server farm! =)	23:26
javispedro	right now, builds take longer than on the original server farm..	23:27
javispedro	or should I say 770 farm ;)	23:27
RST38h	ok, he is a kinesiology professor, which kinda makes it less interesting	23:27
* artemm is thinking about what app create for N9. Something relatively simple as a trial. Anybody lacks something?		23:28
javispedro	oh, I killed COBS	23:30
javispedro	:(	23:30
javispedro	or at least I isolated it... its IRC bot is gone..	23:30
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* javispedro gives up on COBS today, let's do it the sbox way.		23:31
djszapi	javispedro: what is up with c-obs ?	23:31
* alterego ponders, I want to do a fading slide like on symbian belle in QML, this should be fun.		23:31
javispedro	djszapi: seemingly something broke, it's bot is gone from meego-boss	23:32
javispedro	*its	23:32
djszapi	javispedro: what is this meego-boss channel about ?	23:33
javispedro	it outputs some logs about what cobs does, afaik.	23:34
djszapi	also for the Harmattan target ?	23:34
javispedro	yep	23:34
djszapi	good to know...	23:34
djszapi	Have you seen it useful for anything so far ?	23:35
RST38h	javispedro: you have beaten the OBS?	23:35
RST38h	do you get a bonus for that?	23:35
javispedro	djszapi: yes, BUILD_SUCCESS/BUILD_FAIL messages	23:35
javispedro	djszapi: yes, BUILD_SUCCESS/BUILD_FAIL messages	23:35
javispedro	oops =)	23:35
javispedro	RST38h: nah	23:35
djszapi	javispedro: why is that useful ?	23:36
javispedro	so that I know when the build ends	23:36
javispedro	since even the triviallest of packages takes a few hours or so when the "Updating..." problem strikes	23:37
djszapi	javispedro: yep, but you know that failed.	23:37
javispedro	sometimes it ends up working after that	23:38
javispedro	not today	23:38
djszapi	working after a re-start or in the same process ?	23:38
javispedro	same	23:39
djszapi	interesting, I have never experienced such a thing.	23:39
djszapi	if it is there on that channel, why cannot it be redirected to the log as well ?	23:39
javispedro	ah	23:39
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javispedro	I broke not only COBS	23:39
javispedro	but all of meego.com =)	23:40
kimju	http://isobsdown.bfst.de/	23:40
javispedro	http://forum.meego.com/	23:40
dm8tbr	:)	23:40
kimju	the obs has been having outakes during weekends for several weeks now..	23:40
dm8tbr	that's for meego core obs API though	23:40
kimju	dm8tbr, but that affects cobs too	23:40
dm8tbr	yes	23:40
alterego	It's a ploy by Intel!	23:40
alterego	muahahaha	23:40
djszapi	javispedro: but what does that have to do with Harmattan target on the c-obs ?	23:41
dm8tbr	although the harmattan part uses links to the maemo.org thing	23:41
javispedro	kimju: nah, not the same thing	23:41
javispedro	kimju: the C(ommunity) OBS also needs another server up to be working	23:41
javispedro	that also seems to spend its days down..	23:41
kimju	and meego bugzilla seems to be broken too.	23:41
djszapi	kimju: that is what javispedro said by all of meego.com :)	23:42
javispedro	all of meego.com, and it happened right when I typed "osc rebuildpac" :)	23:42
djszapi	hahhaahha	23:42
dm8tbr	things are slow but not down it seems	23:42
javispedro	gives 500 here	23:42
javispedro	HTTP 500 error code, I mean	23:43
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dm8tbr	https://meego.com/ - WFM	23:43
dm8tbr	it's just quite slowwww	23:43
dm8tbr	same for wiki.m.c	23:43
djszapi	rip procedure ;)	23:44
javispedro	so, who wants to break his n950 by trying my fmrx proof of concept?	23:44
dm8tbr	if all of them would be completely down my icinga would have lit up ##meego-dashboard like a christmas tree	23:44
kimju	javispedro, you got it working?	23:44
javispedro	was going to put it on f.m.c, but since it is down =)	23:44
javispedro	kimju: yeah	23:45
kimju	nice.	23:45
javispedro	kimju: it was virtually a miracle -- I triggered some fmradio code in the policy framework when I was playing with the libresource0 example	23:46
javispedro	sadly, a few bugs still	23:48
javispedro	while the policy framework turns on BT for me, it always turns off when the fmrx app dies	23:48
javispedro	*turns it off	23:48
javispedro	no matter what the user set in preferences	23:48
javispedro	plus Aegis/permissions don't allow apps to touch ALSA so app needs to run as root	23:49
djszapi	that is false	23:49
javispedro	djszapi: try it if you want: "aplay -Dhw:0,0"	23:50
djszapi	running as root is the worst idea ever.	23:50
djszapi	and as we discussed it yesterday, same as on desktops. :)	23:51
javispedro	as we discussed Desktops set an ACL that allows access to the currently logged in user	23:51
javispedro	that includes Gentoo and OpenSUSE.	23:52
djszapi	not really, nope, none of desktops, laptops	23:52
djszapi	* my desktops, laptops	23:52
djszapi	Hence that is probably not the important bit.	23:52
javispedro	_all_ of my desktops and laptops have this ACL.	23:53
javispedro	as well as Doc's.	23:53
djszapi	does not matter, works without that	23:53
djszapi	ok there are 2 people, and there are other 1000 ok...	23:53
javispedro	no, it won't.	23:53
djszapi	this is not a good arguement.	23:53
djszapi	yes, it does for me as I said.	23:53
javispedro	djszapi: strace aplay -Dhw:0,0 and pastebin	23:54
javispedro	you are probably using Pulse's fake ALSA and you don't even know..	23:54
djszapi	nope	23:54
djszapi	since I have zero pulse installed as I really dislike pulse.	23:54
javispedro	open("/dev/snd/controlC0", O_RDONLY\|O_CLOEXEC) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)	23:56
javispedro	when I remove the ACL	23:56
javispedro	I don't know what your problem is, maybe your version of ls doesn't show ACLs, maybe you are using OSS, I don't know. But I'm _quite sure_ it works the way I'm describing.	23:56
djszapi	well, I have been able to get sound in Gluon for mmm .. 1 year ?	23:56
javispedro	as said I don't know what's up in your system.	23:58
djszapi	javispedro: my distribution ships the newest software versions.	23:58
djszapi	this I do not know, but I am quite sure sounds controversial ;)	23:58

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