IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-07-23

javispedrothat way I do not have to patch _all_ of the unix daemons that try to drop its privileges that way.00:00
DocScrutinizerFYI (I heard the "ignore the errors" advice :-D)
achipai know, I just pasted those from a develsh00:01
mgedminfiferboy, where are you?00:01
javispedroDamion3: _calling conventions_. They're different. For floating point arguments at least.00:01
achipajavispedro: we misunderstood each other i think00:02
achipaI make id setuid root... NOT CAP::setuid00:02
infobotachipa meant: I make it setuid root... NOT CAP::setuid00:02
achipamade it00:02
Damion3I assume aegis permits having  stuff run as user do things like listen on ports under q0w400:02
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javispedroDamion3: surprise!: no.00:03
javispedronot entirely true00:03
DocScrutinizer:nod: blue nice mc, as user00:03
javispedrothat's CAP::net_bind_service00:03
javispedrowhich you can indeed request, but then the usual unix limitations apply.00:03
Damion3you mean you need root too?00:03
DocScrutinizernow let's see which directory/file to touch accidentally to make aegis nuke the device ;-)00:03
Damion3actually you could use setcap against the file if the filesystem supports it00:04
Damion3which is usual unix limitations00:04
javispedroand to use setcap you need... root.00:04
Damion3well once, at install time00:04
javispedrowhich means you probably also need to request some privileges for the install scripts00:05
Damion3yes, that will be some pain00:05
DocScrutinizerLOL /home/developer ??00:06
javispedroDocScrutinizer: for MADDE00:07
Damion3do nokia only want everyone to develop lame ass fart apps and other basic gui nonsense?  all my projects need root (well what would be root pre aegis days), kernel, and other low level faffage00:07
Damion3h that said, mediatomb for sharing images with my PS3 should work as it listens >102400:08
wazdjavispedro: ping!00:10
javispedrowazd: hi!00:11
javispedroDocScrutinizer: btw, findutils-gnu fails to purge, broken postrm00:11
wazdjavispedro: heya! :) I'm in the N950 gang too now :P00:11
wazdjavispedro: :)00:11
javispedrowazd: yeah, saw you on the list!00:11
javispedroah, great!00:11
wazdjavispedro: this is for you :P00:11
javispedromany thanks :D00:11
wazdjavispedro: maybe we should also update the artwork?00:12
Damion3I fricking use Ctrl-Q quite a lot00:12
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: actually I consider a find that doesn't work as root rather useless tbh00:12
javispedrowazd: I will probably entirely redo the interface, and make it more like a "list of found ROMs" in the theme of other harmattan apps (like docs, notes, etc.)00:13
javispedroand probably add screenshot for each rom support (from your last save)00:13
Damion3well, to be honest I accidently press Ctrl-S quite a lot00:13
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Damion3so... I keep quitting the terminal00:13
mgedminouch ouch ouch00:13
Damion3thank heaven for screen00:13
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: funny enough this find-utils.deb for N900 installs and works on harmattan at all00:14
mgedminmeego-terminal annoys me by setting $TERM to linux00:14
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yes, I found it useless too and tried to uninstall it, when I found I cannot.00:14
mgedminI've ancient mutt configs that source ~/.mutt/colors.$TERM00:14
Damion3mgedmin: at least you can change that easily00:14
mgedminall my latest color customizations are in colors.xterm00:14
javispedromgedmin: is it a lie? does it really use linux escape sequences?00:14
javispedromgedmin: you could probably file the bug00:14
mgedminjavispedro, that's an extremely good question!00:14
mgedminand the reason why I'm reluctant to just blindly change $TERM to something else00:15
DocScrutinizerso how would we get aegis to allow execution of arbitrary stuff as root?00:15
DocScrutinizeryou'd think somebody @ nokia could create / patch the policy for unknown-origin?00:16
javispedroDocScrutinizer: only idea: I should make that app that allows creating digsigs for arbitrary executable00:16
wazdjavispedro: sounds cool :)00:16
javispedroDocScrutinizer: but it also creates more problems: who will remove the signatures, etc.00:16
DocScrutinizeryes, I think this should get fixed in the basic policy applied to all such binaries00:17
DocScrutinizerhell, if we could get am abundance of N900 stuff to work on N950 under developermode root, I'd almost be willing to forget there's any aegis for now00:18
javispedrotry i2c-tools from N90000:19
DocScrutinizerbut then this definitely needs root :-(00:19
MohammadAGjavispedro, then edit the postrm :P00:19
javispedroas per the experiments above seems that the dynamic loader will not refuse to load mismatched EABI tags00:19
* SpeedEvil wonders what happens if you add an 'app' like debian-chroot00:19
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, for your safety and to reduce terrorism, we have disabled that for you00:20
javispedroso it means you shall see funny failures if you try to run fremantle floating point apps in harmattan.00:20
javispedroSpeedEvil: disaster00:20
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Damion3SpeedEvil: there is a thread about this00:20
Damion3aegis does have CAP::sys_chroot00:20
javispedroSpeedEvil: from the guy who made the Debian chroot:!/qole00:20
javispedroyou cannot digsig packages that are not on a image that is mounted during boottime00:21
javispedrotherefore, he cannot run the binaries on the chroot .ext3 image00:21
Damion3I've successfully run x86 binaries with a static qemu-user running ./x86binary00:22
Damion3but much more stuff works with a chroot00:22
javispedrocongratulations! you just found how to bypass aegis.00:22
mgedminwhy couldn't nokia set up proper apt signing for scratchbox repos?00:22
javispedroDamion3: x86binary is _never_ mapped with PROT_EXEC, but rather interpreted00:22
mgedminthat's the sh ./ equivalent for binaries00:22
javispedroand that's why aegis is useless.00:23
javispedroat least, the stupid stock policy.00:23
Damion3because that binary when interpreted still uses ENTER to make natively run syscalls which are subject to aegis00:23
DocScrutinizerHAHAHA ROTFL00:23
javispedroDamion3: but it _RUNS_ despite being unsigned, and forbidding that is for some reason stock aegis policy.00:24
DocScrutinizeranyway, now for good: bbl00:24
Damion3I never bothered compiling xsetkbd for arm using my qemu trick to set Ctrl to be sticky00:25
SpeedEvilWhat happens if you run a program under gdb?00:25
javispedro(note: if you want to run unsigned binaries as user, --relaxed-exec still works pretty well for that)00:25
Damion3javispedro: also obviously qemu the arm binary still needs to be given exec ability00:25
Damion3hmm, you could do it once for a copy of /lib/ and yes use the binary version of sh ./binary :)00:26
javispedrothat's not entirely true00:27
javispedrothe dynamic loader _will_ of course mmap pages with PROT_EXEC, and aegis will catch that.00:27
Damion3mm ahha00:27
Damion3that's why noexec on mount stops that trick00:27
javispedroit is qemu the only one that will NOT mmap external, foreign architecture executable pages as PROT_EXEC (what for? it's not going to jump to them)00:27
javispedro(not: qemu might very well do, for lazyness reasons, but it needn't...)00:30
mgedminooh, interesting00:31
infobotDamion3 meant: s/take/take00:32
Damion3ahh, the lack of trailing slash00:32
* javispedro sighs00:32
javispedroIt's a tradition for me to skip the trailing slash, I do not want infobot to actually spam the channel00:32
Damion3gah the screensaver took my a00:33
javispedronow I am _really_ interested in usb hos00:35
javispedroI bought one of those newfangled livescribe pens and hte protocol is standard OBEX. I already made a QGraphicsView app that shows the stuff I wrote on the starter notebook's first page =)00:36
javispedro(OBEX over USB CDC, ofc)00:36
Damion3do the n950 and n9 have the same issues as n900?00:39
Damion3unbeliveable complex kludgy kernel hacks making the h/ware sort of work?00:40
javispedrothey might have less problems, but without schematic we do not know. and usb host is disabled from kernel00:40
Damion3oh, it might be slightly better?  hmm useful00:40
javispedrono, not saying that: more like "nfi".00:40
Damion3I noticed them boasting about the otg/host stuff on the n8 video00:40
Damion3I have a usb one time password device that would be handy to use on the phone00:42
Damion3just hidkbd00:42
* javispedro ponders that enabling support for random usb devices is probably a nogo for devices as the attack surface area would exponentially increase00:43
javispedros/for devices/for aegis00:43
Damion3wouldn't a lot of these issues be a bit of a non-issue if we simply got it working in relaxed/disabled/open aegis mode and then handed it to nokia to sign and make it all packaged and official?00:46
javispedrothat's why I am saying it's very likely a nogo00:47
javispedrousb host means lots of kernel LoCs, and would make aegis easily breakable, even in closed mode.00:47
Damion3you don't think they'd like this?00:47
Damion3a few stock types like hid, storage, would do00:48
Damion3that wouldn't help you though :)00:48
javispedrooh, cdc is enough for me.00:49
javispedrocdc = all network cards, modems, and serial to usb converters. not a small group...00:49
Damion3by the way does everyone's keyboard LEDs flicker all the time?00:49
crevetorDamion3: nope00:49
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crevetorAt some point mine didn't work at all00:50
crevetorit worked after rebooting the device00:50
Damion3it looks like it's showing network traffic or some other indicator00:50
Damion3ie not a h/ware bug but some special mode for debugging00:50
Damion3somebody has says that as I'm able to echo 0 to the security stuff to disable aegis, this might be sone r&d version00:51
javispedrovalidator-init seals those values in my device00:53
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mgedminwhere do I find libfribidi-dev?01:09
javispedrowhy, oh, why is the N950 video player slow decoding 480p h264?01:10
javispedroI mean, awesome screen, and I can only watch videos at a lower resolution that what the N900 is capable of.01:10
lcukjavispedro, are you sure it is decoding, or xvideo mode used01:10
lcuki notice that liqbase appears to be being composited01:11
javispedroyes! I also suspect that01:11
lcukand in doing so has to go through a yuv->rgb conversion01:11
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mgedminiirc the n9 coming soon page claimed it was able to do 720p video01:11
javispedromgedmin: try it. I can only do 360p video.01:11
lcukhang on01:12
DocScrutinizer51Damion3: (kbd flicker) I noticed it for a sub-second period one time. Looks like N900 R+D mode01:12
lcukliqbase is not being composited01:12
mgedminmy n950 can play the 9 trailer from my n900 fine; I don't have any better-quality videos in easy reach01:12
javispedroI have some trailer here which is _exactly_ 854x480, and it plays sloooooooooowly.01:12
lcukit just runs poorly01:12
lcuksintel_trailer does not play01:13
lcukit is .ogv01:13
javispedronah, no theora yet01:13
javispedroneither on801:13
javispedrothank the gods we have vorbis01:13
javispedro(and I thank them very, very much for that)01:13
GeneralAntillesWhere are the wallpapers stored?01:20
rm_youwhere is MUSIC stored? i put an m3u and a pls in MyDocs/Music and the player didn't find either of them01:23
GeneralAntillesWell, with some .mp401:23
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npm~/MyDocs/Music : -rw-r--r--    1 user     root      74681773 Jul 18 17:33
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mgedminrm_you, I bluetooth'ed some mp3 files, they ended up in ~/MyDocs/.sounds/01:27
npmplaying now. finally, meego that plays mp3s out of the box01:27
mgedminnpm, didn't you hear? it's not meego :)01:28
npmyes, i have a sense of humor01:28
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MohammadAGany QML experts around?01:30
npmi was hoping those little holes on the side of the display part was some kind of special loudspeaker..01:31
npmwhat are they?01:31
javispedrothey are a speakr01:31
javispedrobut only for voice calls as far as I can see.01:32
MohammadAGGot an idea, but I'm not sure if QtMobility requires C++ bindings in QML01:32
epageMohammadAG: I'm a QML beginner myself but I'd be curious what your question if nothing else to provide more areas for me to learn01:32
npmMohammadAG: some parts of qtmobility are interfaced, others aren't01:33
MohammadAGMicrophone access01:33
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npm qt-mobility-opensource-src-1.2.0/examples/audiodevices/main.cpp01:34
npmare good places to start01:35
rm_youwhat is the resolution of this display? is it really 720p? it doesn't seem like that's probable, so are we expecting it to downscale that to 480p?01:36
javispedrorm_you: obviously01:36
javispedrorm_you: resolution is 854x480 btw01:36
javispedroon N9 it will be lower01:36
mgedmineh? I thought it was the same01:37
mgedminthe screen size in inches is a bit smaller01:37
javispedroN9 uses PenTile01:37
mgedminthus making the ppi higher01:37
mgedminwhich means...?01:37
javispedroread both that and controversy section01:37
GAN900bullshit pixel counting01:37
mgedminI remember an admonition saying "do not use 1-pixel-wide lines in text or graphics" because of the N9's AMOLED display01:37
javispedroit's because it is PenTile, not any AMOLED limitation perse.01:38
SpeedEvilIt's because a pixel is only a pixel, not three as in the case of most01:38
npmthere's no "recording" in qtmobility QML
GAN900Most AMOLEDs that are out there are PenTile, though.01:38
npm^^ MohammadAG01:38
MohammadAGwhy is it pentile?01:38
javispedroMohammadAG: cheap01:38
MohammadAGwell the N9's screen is expensive as is01:39
MohammadAGthanks to swipe01:39
MohammadAGnpm, C++ it is, easier for me I guess01:39
SpeedEvilI question the curve adds much if you buy Lots01:39
MohammadAGsecond question, call C++ methods directly or using signals/slots?01:39
npmfortunately, adding C++ stuff from qtmobility is pretty easy... i went through a lot of handwringing about using pyside to get this in but C++ is so easy to add into QML that it's easier to skip python... already got QML anyways01:40
MohammadAGI dislike python01:41
npmby the way if anybody wants to help on the above, it's open source and it's meego, and the n950 camera will be the best Youtube direct source yet01:41
MohammadAGToo slow imo01:41
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GAN900Portrait vkb ism't the world's worst feature but I wish it didn't cost so much.01:42
epagePerformance all depends on the app.  The place I probably get burned the most by python is start up time01:43
mgedminhey, seriously, where do I get libfribidi-dev for harmattan?01:43
mgedminAFAICT libfribidi0 is preinstalled on a n95001:43
npmi've been a long time non-fan of python: :-)01:44
npmbut i will admit to writing in it, and wishing i was using a better language (like lisp, or even javascript)01:44
epageI tried learnign javascript, drove me nuts.  I'm curious in what way you prefer it?01:45
javispedromgedmin: not on mine01:45
DocScrutinizer51the little holes at side of screen are the stereo mics01:45
mgedmin(seriously, javascript???? javascript??????)01:45
npmyou have to use the rigth parts of javascript
mgedminnever mind, I'm sure you can find criteria according to which js is better than python (e.g. better modern JIT compilers)01:46
npm(i don't have the book, but i already use the bood parts of javascript...)01:46
epageMm I sure wish I had access to those jits in python01:46
mgedminpypy is slowly getting there01:47
npmsee for an example of "modern javascript"01:47
npmre [15:46] <npm> (i don't have the book, but i already use the bood parts of javascript...)01:47
epageI've heard how they've reduced memory usage relative to themselves but I'm waiting for pypy to add a memory benchmark to their benchmark site (and I can't tell which of their benchmarks might cover startup time but that is another important one)01:48
mgedminanybody with a harmattan scratchbox here?01:48
npmi have a feeling that javascript runs faster in qtwebkit than qml01:48
javispedronpm: i think it's true01:48
javispedroqml used jscore01:48
mgedminare there any useful apt sources I ought to add?01:48
javispedrowhile qtwebkit probably uses squirrel or some of the newer ones01:48
mgedminI've harmattan/sdk in there; libfribidi-dev is not there...01:49
javispedromgedmin: I do not have fribidi on the device01:49
npm seems to process 388 youtube feeds faster than say qmltube01:49
mgedminoh? curious!01:49
npmand only took a page of code to write :-)01:49
javispedromgedmin: therefore, you are from now on the maintainer of libfribidi for harmattan.01:49
mgedminoh! I got it from fiferboy's repo along with fbreader!01:49
javispedrodang it! ;)01:49
mgedmins/repo/web page/01:50
* mgedmin cringes waiting for infobot to butt in, then relaxes after realizing his 'duh' saved everyone from the interruption01:50
npmi have no idea why i'm listening to this on these tiny Finnish speakers when i have much better Finnish ones nearby .. i guess it's the novelty of it :-)01:51
npm(and they're not Nokia's)01:51
* javispedro lols at "Because Nokia employees can't sign Google's contributor's agreement, this isn't going to happen."01:52
mgedminoh, I'll cheat and download instead of building it myself01:52
mgedminjavispedro, context?01:53
rm_youLOL yeah 720p h264 does not work AT ALL.01:53
rm_youneed to get mplayer compiled01:53
mgedminyay mplayer01:54
rm_you... working on it...01:54
javispedromplayer will work even worse01:54
mgedminI want to listen to internet radio01:54
mgedminthe laptop that was connected to our large office speakers kind of died01:54
mgedminwell, it didn't die, but its sound card did01:54
mgedminso I've been plugging my n950 to the speakers and wishing it could stream internet radio01:54
npmuse your n950... i'm rockin my 950 instead of (nice job nokia sounds great)01:54
rm_youmgedmin: it can01:55
rm_youmgedmin: if you download a playlist from somewhere and run it from transfers, it will play (like etc)01:55
mgedminah, interesting01:57
mgedminsomebody told me the other day on IRC that the media player on the n950 didn't support that01:58
rm_youi have not yet figured out how to get the music player to actually SEE the playlist files and play them once they're downloaded though, nor can i figure out how to actually browse the filesystem and launch the playlists from outside of the transfers winfow01:58
MohammadAGyou do realize the N950 uses MafwRenderer01:58
rm_youjavispedro: why will mplayer work worse?01:58
MohammadAGso it should do what the N900 can do and more01:58
javispedrorm_you: no dsp codecs01:59
rm_youjavispedro: :/01:59
javispedroand whatever is causing the stock media player to be slowed down will also cause mplayer to slow down01:59
MohammadAGI wonder if this is ala PR1.102:00
npmhow do you invoke playbin on n950? gst-launch seems missing02:00
MohammadAGwhere even fullscreen windows were composited02:00
javispedroMohammadAG: nah, drnoksnes gets 400fps02:00
MohammadAGinstall gst-launch02:00
npmotherwise can't you just give gst-launch -v playbin 'uri= ...' and thats it02:00
MohammadAGoh, interesting02:00
rm_youumm, how do I get svn installed in scratchbox?02:01
npmi have an alternate theory on video playback. aegis is blocing access to video HW, and someone forgot to add <credential name="GRP::video" /> to the video player ?02:02
javispedrothat would be so stupid02:02
mgedminalso, funny02:02
MohammadAGdoubt it02:02
javispedrofor a change I am not even going to check it, I still have some trust in Nokia :)02:03
npmthat caused my to give a black screen02:03
npmuntil i fixed it02:03
MohammadAGI mean, mafw bails when it can't handle errors02:03
rm_you<rm_you> umm, how do I get svn installed in scratchbox?02:03
npmby adding the aegis file02:03
npmw/ right settings02:03
npmactually it was bailing with random stupid messages that had nothing to do with it02:03
javispedrorm_you: change scratchbox target settings and add the svn devkit02:04
rm_you10974     1 user     S <   135m 13.6 14.1 /usr/bin/qmafw-dbus-wrapper /usr/lib/qmafw-plugin/libqmafw-gst-renderer-plugin.so02:04
rm_youthe video is lagging02:04
rm_youand it is only use 14% CPU (using the dsp for decoding it seems)02:04
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npmthere's also GRP::pulse-access ... so i'm wondering if that needs to be granted in order to get pulse to run in realtime mode? (which could be a security issue as you could DOS the device)02:05
npmthat could also cause performance issues02:05
npmi'll be looking into that next round of hax02:05
rm_youjavispedro: how?02:06
* mgedmin so far went the easier way by running svn/git/whatever from outside scratchbox, with a ~/scratchbox -> /scratchbox/users/mg/home/mg symlink for convenience02:06
javispedrorm_you: sb-menu ... blablabla02:06
rm_youyes but02:06
npm is a helpful read02:06
rm_youfrom there what02:06
javispedronpm: audio is fine. also, you'd be surprised at how pulse is confirued.02:06
npmactually i'm never surprised at how pulse is configured :-) (gum, bailing wire..)02:07
rm_youit said Devkit is installed in both02:07
npmi'm sure if you google for "pulseaudio" and "waste of batteries" you'll find one of my flames  :-)02:08
mgedminwaaaaugh fiferboy did not upload a libfreebidi-dev deb, only the main libfreebidi0 deb02:08
mgedminI've to compile freebidi from scratch apparently02:08
* mgedmin is unhappy with people who don't distribute the source packages next to the binaries they've built02:08
npmjavispedro: audio is fine in that it works. but i'm not sure what causes the glitching of video. since video w/o audio didn't glitch02:09
npmpulseaudio usually pulls the rug out of just about everything, esp on a uniprocessor and running in realtime mode02:09
rm_youGAH GIVE ME SVN $(*#%&)#(^%*02:09
MohammadAGGAH GIVE ME SVN $(*#%&)#(^%*: Operation not permitted02:10
npmyeah, i'm suprised at how quickly svn became second rate supported02:10
rm_youbut seriously02:10
rm_youjavispedro: there is no option i see in sb-menu where the end result will be me having SVN02:11
javispedroyou need to edit the target02:11
kimjuyou can always run svn outside sb, even within the sb directories..02:12
javispedroa bit hard to explain and atm I'm trying to beat ovi suite into installing my maps02:12
rm_youjavispedro: yeah tried every option and no luck02:13
npmaccli -p `pgrep qmafw-dbus-wrapper` -I02:17
npmreturns interesting results... and GRP::video is set02:17
npmaccli -p `pgrep music-suite` -I02:17
npmaccli -p `pgrep pulseaudio` -I is only one w/ GRP::pulse so i assume only pulseaudio needs that setting02:18
npmbut that's different than "GRP::pulse-access"02:20
npmmaybe that's for apps that need to be able to reconfig pulseaudio routing, etc02:20
* javispedro curses, no maps for me today02:20
mgedminok, I've got fbreader binaries, but no debds02:23
mgedminhow do I build debs? where's fiferboy when you need him?02:23
npmclueless question. so what am i missing out on using qtcreator. it works for me.02:24
mgedminqtcreator is awesome02:25
npmusing the Harmattan QtSDK 1.1.202:25
npmok, so if i'm all good w/ qtcreator then i'm not missing out on anything other than haxor boasting :-) (actually i use emacs -- but qtcreator is smart enough to know when i edited files externally)02:26
mgedminthing is, when you've got a project with an existing make-based build system, how do you feed it to qt creator?02:27
DocScrutinizerhmm, ok02:27
mgedminI assumed scratchbox would be simpler, since fiferboy already succeeded building fbreader in scratchbox02:27
DocScrutinizerlightning killed a modemrouter of a customer, it's always the same: deaf on the 600R-line02:28
DocScrutinizerI wonder why those modemrouters (and generally modems) can't have proper OVP02:29
DocScrutinizerto ge back on topic: It's kinda nasty on fremantle ICD doesn't realize the WLAN is no working connection to internet. So it sits there on this fsckdup WLAN for hours while GPRS would work just fine02:31
DocScrutinizerI gather that'S all the same on harmattan, though not yet tested. Should finally get fixed02:32
DocScrutinizerI'm not interested in the connection, I'm interested in the working route to */002:32
DocScrutinizerI.E. forget the WLAN when it doesn't ping02:33
DocScrutinizermight become an app02:33
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mgedminum, why is qt creator trying to use ccache?02:36
DocScrutinizerespecially with this "connect to all open WLANs" option/app the chance to frequently pick zombies is real. So it shouldn't pick "open WLAN" but "working internet connection WLAN"02:36
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: still no change in status?02:38
mgedminMohammadAG, "There is currently no text in this page"02:38
MohammadAGmgedmin, sec02:38
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, nope, 16 days02:38
DocScrutinizerpondering to send you mine :-D02:39
DocScrutinizerI might be thru with it in a few days02:39
MohammadAG mgedmin02:40
DocScrutinizerotoh I'm really worried about every decent devel now fighting uphill for harmattan, while fremantle dies a sudden death02:40
MohammadAGI'm not sure if it makes sense, it's just how I understand packaging02:41
mgedminDocScrutinizer, don't worry, it won't be sudden02:41
mgedminit'll be slow and lingering02:41
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, heh, I emailed ddp.program the other day, they gave me a standard answer02:41
DocScrutinizeryeah, just deprivation of nourishing is sudden02:41
MohammadAGnah, not leaving the N90002:42
MohammadAGit's too awesome02:42
MohammadAGI mean, if egoshin upgrades our N900s to 1GB RAM and 1GHz of storage, I'll be happy02:42
MohammadAGoh wait02:42
MohammadAGabill_uk, not egoshin, sorry02:43
DocScrutinizereven I got completely distracted from jonwil and his awesome work for fremantle, and his SMSCB efforts02:43
mgedminMohammadAG, thing is, fbreader consists of maybe five debian packages and has its own crazy/insane build system for them...02:43
DocScrutinizerblueled might be capable to actually do it :-)02:43
mgedminMaemo 5 on the n950 hardware would be awesome...02:43
MohammadAGstfu there can only be one engineer02:43
MohammadAGand he's abill_uk02:44
DocScrutinizerI mean, he had the first working maemo phone ever02:44
* mgedmin realizes that having ccache is actually a Good Idea and apt-get installs it02:45
DocScrutinizersorry, I can't help it, I must post the link, it's just TOO AWESOME!
mgedminoookay, gcc used by Madde uses a different ELF/.o format and can't talk to gcc I've got in scratchbox HARMATTAN_ARMEL target02:48
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, you're just jealous of abill_uk, admit it02:48
mgedminI think I saw instructions for setting up a scratchbox backend in qt creator somewhere...02:49
* mgedmin gives up and goes to sleep02:49
DocScrutinizersure, he has so many fans, and I'm just the ranting fart everybody loves to hate :-D02:49
DocScrutinizerhow could anybody not be jealous of un_abill02:50
DocScrutinizerbtw has his recent ban expired on tmo?02:50
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DocScrutinizerduh, wasn't there a whole class-c net I banned on #maemo to stop pupnik02:53
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, any status updates on hen95002:53
MohammadAGholy, umm, shit02:53
MohammadAGthat is awesome02:53
javispedroyes, abill_uk has been rambling on some thread about how the only future of is to hit any Nokia employee with a shovel for an undeterminated amount of hours to suck the source code out of him02:54
javispedro*undetermined, etc.02:55
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: nope - update=aegis sucks donkey balls02:55
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: have you tried again with kernel?02:56
javispedrosts keeps probably knows02:56
MohammadAGI'm actually surprised no Nokia employee risked his job and his future employment chances to leak source code02:56
DocScrutinizererr yup02:56
DocScrutinizereven more, yes02:56
DocScrutinizerthough with aegis all the sourcecode might turn out to be completely useless in the end02:57
javispedrowe have all of aegis sourcecode02:57
MohammadAGnot if you get the keys02:57
DocScrutinizeryeah, Nokia's rootcert02:58
DocScrutinizerthat'd be a read revelation02:58
TSCHAKeeeI'm ultimately curious02:59
TSCHAKeeeif it will be possible to reflash the N9 with a different OS?02:59
DocScrutinizerI gues that one is on a massive gold CD under Elop's cushion02:59
DocScrutinizerTSCHAKeee: Stskeeps tries to do that02:59
TSCHAKeeehe's already got an N9?03:00
TSCHAKeeeI mean, I know he's at the top of every list, but... ;)03:00
DocScrutinizerif Nokia went really nasty and all the way to dark side, they have locked down access to modem by crypto03:00
MohammadAGyes, it will03:00
MohammadAGquestion is, will it be possible to use commercial shit on that03:01
DocScrutinizerdefinitely not03:01
DocScrutinizerand it's not even clear you could reflash with another OS. Nokia can change xloader/NOLO any time03:01
DocScrutinizerTSCHAKeee: I meant Stskeeps tries to flash meegoCE to N950 right atm03:02
TSCHAKeeedocScrutinizer: oh, yeah. I know. :)03:02
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: so if N9 has a different rootcert than N950, and there are no publicly available NOLO versions that allow to boot an unsigned kernel, the jury is still out on N9 with alien OS03:04
DocScrutinizerTSCHAKeee: (I mean, I know he's at the top of every list) I'm not sure about that. Seems to me Nokia's support for meego-arm team significantly decayed recently03:07
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SpeedEvilPage 1703:15
SpeedEvilIt's removable03:15
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npmfyi, regarding whatever conversation from earlier.. GRP::pulse-access seems to make video playback w/o  pausing04:20
npmalongside GRP::video04:21
npmnow off to dinner04:21
rm_younpm: wait what?!04:23
rm_youwait why does mplayer depend on gtk and hildon libs04:26
npmmust test more but videos that were all pausy before when full screen all refreshy (big buck bunny 480) now playback smooth04:27
rm_youi thought it opened straight to the FB04:27
rm_younpm: so what did you change? i want to try04:27
npmit  had to remove code to prevent display from going to sleep but it works like this sortof04:29
npmback later ... dinner04:30
rm_younpm: yeah i have that :P thought you meant a change to the default media player setup or something04:32
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antman8969anyone know of an ifdef for harmattan?04:55
antman8969found contains(MEEGO_EDITION,harmattan): for the pro file, but it doesn't seem to be owrking...04:55
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GeneralAntillesThe lack of rounding on the N950 keys is frustrating.05:30
GeneralAntillesFeels more squishy than the N900 keyboard, too.05:31
TSCHAKeeedoesn't bother me05:36
* TSCHAKeee is actually deliberately not using the keyboard05:37
antman8969barely use it, the onscreen is pretty good imo05:42
TSCHAKeeeit's one of the better ones05:42
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: yup05:42
DocScrutinizeractually somewhat reminds me of the eten Glofiish M800 kbd, no doubt this been the worst handheld kbd I ever had to put my fingertips on05:45
DocScrutinizerand the non-sticky Fn-key frequently makes me typo all the "blue" symbols05:47
antman8969i actually hate the fn / ctrl keys05:47
antman8969I typed my password in plain text last week here because my / was turned into a @05:47
antman8969had to go an change them all....05:47
rm_youthe vkbd is gross >_>05:59
rm_youthe keyboard is better but05:59
GAN900It's not too terrible.06:20
GAN900But not great06:20
GAN900I wont ever touch-type 60 wpm while looking at something else like I can on my N900.06:21
DocScrutinizerk, time for brinner06:24
hiemanshuGAN900: I assume no swipe?06:30
GAN900Not tried it.06:33
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antman8969has anyone been able to build for harmattan on OBS?06:50
antman8969the repo doesn't seem to show up after being selected06:51
rm_youi need to figure out how to build packages again, haven't done this in a while06:51
rm_youi'm missing about a billion dependencies06:51
rm_youthis is a nightmare...06:52
rm_youdpkg-buildpackage -> you're missing these deps -> apt-get source depnames -> dpkg-buildpackage -> you06:52
rm_you*you're missing more deps06:52
rm_yourinse and repeat about 20 times06:52
rm_youi'm giving up for now06:52
antman8969are you doing anything special?06:52
rm_youmplayer <_<06:53
rm_youand libx26406:53
antman8969and you're building in scratchbox?06:53
rm_yougetting the dep sources from ubuntu natty06:53
antman8969lol thats gona be a pain06:53
rm_younot sure where else to get the sources from and actually have debian build rules06:53
rm_youlol yes06:53
antman8969you're just going and downloading them all one by one?06:53
rm_youapt-source doesn't exist06:54
antman8969yea that sux06:54
rm_youi could try to build THAT06:54
rm_yousrsly there is NOTHING in the base repos06:54
rm_younot even SVN or GIT06:54
rm_youthis is so ridiculous06:54
rm_youseriously though, NEED a repo to put libs in06:57
rm_youso everyone doesn't have to compile every lib06:57
antman8969check out obs07:01
antman8969its' better than nothing07:01
rm_youhow do i set that up07:01
rm_youall i saw guides for were scratchbox and QtCreator07:01
rm_youi played with OBS when i was working on Mer, but that was a while ago07:02
rm_youwasn't aware Harmattan was set up for OBS07:02
antman8969lol its not...07:02
rm_youi thought scratchbox was its main env07:02
antman8969well you can build in scratchbox, but when you start using things besides QT you run into your dep problem07:02
antman8969OBS is trying to be like Maemo extras, if you're familiar with that07:02
antman8969but the harmattan target isn't working afaik07:03
antman8969but your problem isn't harmattan related is it, just general libs07:03
rm_youwell yes07:03
rm_youbut ... general libs for hamattan07:03
rm_youso if i can't build the libs...07:03
rm_youi can't use lins from Fremantle, can I?07:04
infobotrm_you meant: i can't use libs from Fremantle, can I?07:04
antman8969some would work yea07:05
antman8969there was a compatible lib page somewhere but I lost it07:05
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antman8969a lot of them would probably work07:05
antman8969but you're frustration isn't unjustified, there isn't much direction right now imo07:05
antman8969kinda every man for himself07:05
rm_youi'm wondering if i can be helpful by, instead of actually coding and building packages, actually just try to generate some infrastructure07:06
antman8969thats neat07:07
antman8969should be usefull07:07
antman8969but you should get an obs account,  because it's clearly the future07:08
rm_youwhere do i do that07:08
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antman8969here lol, in the #meego channel if you have an account on meego.com07:08
antman8969lbs is one person, xfade is another07:08
antman8969msg them07:08
rm_youah k07:08
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rm_youerr, lbs or lbt?07:09
antman8969i think lbt, but googleing meego obs tells you the exact one in a wiki.meego page07:09
antman8969sry yea lbt07:10
rm_youdavid greaves?07:10
antman8969lol wouldn't know the real name, but it sounds right07:10
rm_youhung out with him a lot at conferences and stuff07:10
rm_youhe managed toe Mer OBS too07:10
antman8969in person?07:14
GAN900Anybody gotten the vkb stuck in numerals yet?07:15
GAN900antman8969, yes.07:16
npmantman8969: re ifdef for harmattan, see
npmrm_you: I'm back ... doing accli -p `pgrep /usr/bin/video-suite` -I shows it already has all the needed aegis permissions. .. the new version of qmltube port i uploaded had those changes, plus other fixes (i haven't updated the version number)07:30
npmanybody know what and do"07:31
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antman8969npm I tried it but It would't work using creator with the Meego 1.2 Harmattan target07:39
antman8969and gan900 you want a number only vkb?07:39
GAN900No, I encountered a bug.07:39
GAN900Couldn't get back to the letters in SMS.07:40
antman8969oooh, in that case, no lol07:40
antman8969on a a slightly unrelated note, My smileys dont work...07:40
antman8969npm I ended up using unix:!symbian:!maemo: in the pro file instead07:41
antman8969but that doesn't let me distinguish harmattan from meego so it's not a great solution...07:41
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DocScrutinizerGAN900: vkbd locked to numeric input for textfields with according attributes, e.g. number for SMS addressee08:00
DocScrutinizerit's no bug, it's a feature (maybe not being able to set focus elsewhere might be a bug)08:01
GAN900Was on the text input field.08:01
GAN900While I was typing out a text, went to add an apostrophe and couldn't get back to the alphas.08:01
DocScrutinizerahaaa, that'S different then08:02
rm_youwhat happens to me is that the text box i'm typing into for messages disappears08:14
rm_youapostrophe is just... a key? why would you even need to hit function or anything08:14
npmantman8969 i got my solution to work ... but it won't be able to automatically distinguish harmattan from a system that has /../qmsystem2/qmkeys.h installed08:18
npmgiven funky exists($$QMAKE_INCDIR_QT"/../qmsystem2/qmkeys.h"):!contains(MEEGO_EDITION,harmattan): {08:18
npmsuggested by
DocScrutinizerGAN900: no, can't duplicate that08:21
GAN900rm_you, vkb08:22
rm_youwhy would you use the vkbd >_>08:22
GAN900DocScrutinizer, yeah, bet it's a race condition.08:22
rm_youi've been trying to figure out how to uninstall/disable it08:22
DocScrutinizerI notice tactile feedback sometimes gets lost08:22
GAN900rm_you, testing and familiarization.08:22
GAN900That almost seems like a Components/MTF issue.08:23
rm_youtactile feedback?08:23
DocScrutinizeralso noticed suddenly my number of chars per SMS was down to 50 or sth08:23
DocScrutinizerrm_you: vibra kick08:23
rm_youwell bedtime08:25
rm_yougiving up on compiling these 100 dependencies for mplayer08:25
rm_youmaybe tomorrow i can get OBS access and it'll be easier? :/ dunno08:26
npminteresting,  perhaps by including QtMobility, you also get Q_WS_MAEMO_5 and 6 defined .. qt-mobility-opensource-src-1.2.0/common.pri:135:    maemo6:DEFINES+= Q_WS_MAEMO_608:26
npmrm_you: i'm not sure mplayer will help08:26
rm_youyeah you said that earlier08:27
rm_youor, javispedro did08:27
rm_youbut i still want to try08:27
npmhowever, if you get ffmpeg compiled let me know08:27
rm_youi mean08:27
rm_youwhy would it be different than n900?08:27
DocScrutinizerhonestly I wonder how the heck the cracks at Nokia are building things, without headdesking all the time08:27
rm_youN900 mplayer played stuff way better than builtin, and suffered from the same issues08:27
rm_youdidn't it?08:27
rm_youor was there not a video DSP?08:28
npmthe concern re mplayer is that there are DSP-based coprocessors that are used to accelerate video decode08:28
rm_youi mean, it is just *faster*08:28
npmand that they would not be invoked08:28
rm_youbut it was faster on N90008:28
rm_youand suffered the same drawback08:28
npmdepends on the size.08:28
rm_youdespite not having the DSP it still was faster :/08:28
npmthe n900 has less pixels to push to the screen? compared to the processor increase??08:28
rm_youit's the same res?08:29
npmis it/08:29
rm_youi thought so?08:29
rm_youah no it added 48h08:29
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: they are headdesking all the time08:30
npm  dimensions:    854x480 pixels (225x127 millimeters)08:30
ieatlintnokia has the worst fucking build environments i've ever seen.. the toolchains for the various things are more fragmented than android is08:30
npmper  env DISPLAY=:0.0 xpdyinfo08:30
rm_youold was 800x480?08:30
rm_youit barely added any08:31
npmand might i say: it is way fing cool to be able to run xdpyinfo on my phone08:31
rm_youwell i gotta go to bed08:31
rm_youone thing i have learned is, don't draw conclusions before you TRY08:31
npmi'm going to bow down to this thing like it's the monolith in 200108:31
rm_youthis stuff is madness08:31
rm_younever goes like you'd expect08:31
rm_youso when i *see* mplayer being slower, i'll believe it08:32
npmtrue. bypassing entire gstreamer pipeline and doing it in mplayer may be faster in some cases08:32
rm_youi'm hoping.08:32
rm_youit's lagging on videos that played fine on n90008:32
rm_youin mplayer08:32
npmperhaps for audio08:32
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rm_you(none of my videos played right in built-in)08:32
* rm_you sleeps08:32
npm384000/409920 ... aka 7% more pixels to push08:35
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DocScrutinizerso, is harmattan back to plain alsa now? or how is play-sound called this week, if we mustn't use aplay?08:51
DocScrutinizerdon't get me wrong, not missing play-sound really, it was so retarded and limited in configurability (WTF does spellcheck blame this word?)... But honestly, it was really nice to get some advice how to use audio, from cmdline08:54
DocScrutinizer~spell configurability08:54
infobotpossible spellings for configurability: configurable integrability conductibility navigability reconfigurable convertibility maneuverability conferable configured08:54
* RST38h moos at Doc08:56
DocScrutinizermoo RST38h08:56
RST38hWhy do we have a separate harmattan channel anyway? Feels weird08:57
DocScrutinizer*YAWN* still way too little storage to get some 50MB manpages :-S08:57
RST38hWill it be absorbed into #maemo once N9 hits the market?08:57
DocScrutinizerthat's the time when I start #fremantle ;-)08:58
DocScrutinizerwell, it's a *user device*, right? Nah wait, the backside clearly says "DEVELOPER DEVICE"09:02
DocScrutinizerso I guess the ~8GB aren't exactly needed for mp3, a few manpages should fit nicely09:02
DocScrutinizer~ $ pa<tabtab>09:06
DocScrutinizerpackage-manager-ui            pager                         parse-endurance-measurements  passwd09:06
DocScrutinizerCOUGH, where's the pulseaudio stuff?09:06
DocScrutinizerLOL [-fixed-orientation 0|90|180|270] Start application in fixed orientation.        This overrides keyboard state, as well as a device profile09:07
DocScrutinizerbtw one of the many quite OT parameters of package-manager-ui09:08
ieatlintit has the pulseaudio daemon, it may just not have the tools installed09:09
DocScrutinizermhm, pnatd is phonet-at now09:21
DocScrutinizeresd *couhg*09:33
DocScrutinizerflash_eater EEEEEK! :-o09:36
DocScrutinizerI strongly discourage to test this command09:36
DocScrutinizerhmm, mat seems to be identical with phonet-at09:43
DocScrutinizerhah memload should get renamed memhog09:48
DocScrutinizerobjcopy *cough*, wonder what aegis will thing about that09:55
alteregoHas anyone used the maps manager successfully?10:08
ieatlintthe gui doesn't work, there are instructions on the wiki on how to unpack the maps10:15
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alteregoAh, okay. Manual it is then ..10:23
DocScrutinizerls -l /usr/share/meegotouch/targets/N*10:24
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alteregoGoing to a wedding today, should be a good N950 photo opportunity :)10:35
DocScrutinizerany idea bout /syspart?10:35
wazdalterego: I thought wedding would be a good photo opportunity for D7000 lately :D10:36
alteregowazd: alright if you've got one, personally I would have prefered to take the N8, but my gf has stolen it :/10:36
DocScrutinizerugh cgroup10:37
Tronicat a funeral right now10:37
Tronicperfect n950 ircing oppurtunity10:37
wazdTronic: :( :)10:38
Tronicduring the superstitious parts only, ofc.10:38
alteregoYeah, I'm not in to the cloud fairy parts either ..10:40
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aplay -L11:00
DocScrutinizerSegmentation fault (core dumped)11:00
tommadoes anyone know how to use ShareUi from dbus? what kind of .aegis it requires?11:02
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dm8tbrgood moaning11:07
achipatomma: the MTF one has TrackerReadAccess, TrackerWriteAccess, tracker::tracker-miner-fs-access, GRP::metadata-users, GRP::video, mms-manager::MmsProtectedReadAccess11:10
achipatomma: don't have dbus at hand11:10
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tommai found those too... but for some reason, when i launch it from dbus it just hangs11:11
tommacant really tell if this is caused by aegis or what11:11
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lbthey rm_you o/11:29
hiemanshualterego: the N950 camera is awesome!11:46
npmachipa: what exactly does GRP::pulse-access do?11:46
achipagives you audio access ? no idea, don't have docs at hand11:48
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npmIn it seems to enable video playback w/ less pausing11:50
npmactually many questions could be answerd if i saw the sourcecode for say, the things that generate results of "accli -p `pgrep /usr/bin/camera-ui` -I"11:51
npmaccli -p `pgrep /usr/bin/video-suite` -I11:52
npmand accli -p `pgrep /usr/bin/qmafw-dbus-wrapper` -I11:52
npmwhich is also a good place to copy names needed for your own <packagename>.aegis11:53
npmthat's how i figured out that GRP::video was all that was standing between me and video playback11:54
npmok back to doing battle w/ MeeGo::QmDisplayState(qparent)11:56
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DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# grep pulse-acc /etc/group12:44
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MohammadAGis Harmattan OBS online?13:23
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achipanpm: going through the SDK release notes would have probably been a shorter path... it even has an example aegis manifest for video/camera apps14:22
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DocScrutinizeromg THAT was tedious - checked and played with *all* the controls of all three cards in alsamixer14:29
DocScrutinizercreated some funny humming sounds, but no success with FMRX14:31
DocScrutinizerprettey please could somebody share a bit of docu about codec hardware, how it's connected, and what's the I2S_MODE_CONFIG of wl1273 supposed to get set to?14:33
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DocScrutinizera short while I thought radio actually works and has clicks and plops when I (un)mate the antenna which happens to be headphones. Then I realized that's just the headset mic I looped back to speaker14:35
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DocScrutinizerif somebody finds a pointer to a wl1273/1271 datasheet that for sure was much appreciated :-D14:39
dm8tbrthat's TI NDA AFAICT14:44
DocScrutinizerwhile being TI there's hope we might find some maybe even commented sourcecode for it14:46
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, asked jacekowski?14:46
DocScrutinizernot yet14:46
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: thanks for the fmrx "search"17:40
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infobotlardman: please check, cheers DocScr17:54
infobotlardman: please check, cheers DocScr17:54
lardmanDocScrutinizer: thanks for the links17:55
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lardmanI've been looking at Qt Quick, but for some reason can't open qml files in Qt Creator. Is this usual?17:56
lardmanStskeeps: If you're about, I was also looking at the meego-camera app, and wondering how to stick mBarcode decoding in there. I've no clue tbh, and can't see how wrapping the decoder as a qml component is going to do much17:57
lardmanI can't even work out what format an image buffer could be passed across in. I guess an Image, but no sign of one being output in the qml stuff afaict17:57
lardmanseems to me I'd need to stick to the lower level C++ stuff17:57
javispedrodoing image stuff on js would be pain =)17:58
lardmanI'm not seeing much appeal in the whole qml thing atm, no gui designer, and the recommendation is to simply wrap my existing components in a qml wrapper17:59
javispedroI see qml mostly as glue17:59
javispedrothe kind of stuff that you used to do on python, etc.17:59
lardmanI just came into work thinking that I needed an SDK update as I was missing a gui designer, but everything seems to be installed18:00
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lardmanwell I'm glad it's not just me anyway :)18:01
lardmanjavispedro: do you know where I can download qml viewer18:04
javispedronope, it came with qt here18:05
lardmanhmm, strange18:05
lardmanperhaps I need to install the qt quick for symbian stuff18:06
lardmanah well18:07
lardmanjavispedro: thanks18:07
* lardman heads home18:07
lardmancu on Monday18:07
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Wirtahas anyone been able to figure out how to fix the re-orientation bug in landscape homescreen?18:16
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crevetorlardman|home: hi19:25
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hiemanshuis there a setting or something special to make the phone use 3G when no wi-fi is available?21:14
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achipahiemanshu: just enable "use automatically" in the 3G networks' settings21:28
hiemanshuachipa: I cant find it, there is 'Allow background connections' which is enabled21:29
achipaSettings->Internet->Edit->[the name of the network you want to automatically connect to]->use automatically21:30
hiemanshuachipa: ah, found it21:31
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antman8969soo.... I've built fennec for harmattan... but aegis won't let me install it........22:08
GeneralAntillesAh, shoplifters.22:11
* TSCHAKeee wonders why everybody is soooo shocked that they can't manually shove stuff on the phone22:11
GeneralAntillesSo, anybody know if there's a plugin interface for sticking things on the lock screen?22:11
* lcuk wonders how come people have problems putting stuff on the phone22:11
lcukGeneralAntilles, installed 4/4 .debs tried so far22:12
lcukonly prevented from manually updating a binary22:12
TSCHAKeeeand that's probably what everybody is trying to do, oh look, it built, i'll just ssh it over22:12
GeneralAntillesI think Texrat just wrote a blog post about WFMing.22:12
rm_youlbt: hey22:13
lcukGeneralAntilles, link!22:13
rm_youlbt: i was asking you about OBS22:13
GeneralAntillesI need a camera icon on the lock screen.22:13
GeneralAntillesTakes too damn long to get the camera up.22:13
GeneralAntillesGuy rand away while I was fudging around with my stupid phone.22:13
lcukGeneralAntilles, agreed actually22:17
lcukthe camera button gave easy media access22:18
epageGeneralAntilles: the quick launch buttons (including camera) are available from the lock screen22:19
SpeedEvilSome random gesture - like a 4 finger drag from top-bottom or bottom-top on lock to activate cam woul be good22:19
rm_youcamera on mine "times out" and tries to crash and i have to say "no don't crash" and eventually it loads the camera22:19
rm_youtakes a looong time22:20
antman8969does aegis have a problem decompressing things? I'm not sure why this won't install....22:25
rm_yousooo, someone tell me if they think this is a good idea and/or if they would use it22:26
rm_youi might set up a repository that allows users to upload debs to it (and we say "please upload any libraries you compile), and have a simple approval system that I can add a few trusted people to... and then we could actually have one repository that could contain all the necessary libs to actually compile things22:27
rm_youbecause right now i'm pretty sure i'm the 100th person to compile some of these libs22:27
antman8969well yes, but the obs!22:28
fralswhere is the documentation to get qt sdk setup with n950 on windows?22:29
MohammadAGdocumentation? just grab the latest Qt SDK22:29
antman8969idk the windows specific nature of you problem....22:29
fralsi want usbnetworking22:29
MohammadAGjust grab the latest Qt SDK22:29
fralsand i recall seeing a link to drivers or similar on some getting started crap22:29
MohammadAGdon't make me say that again22:30
fralsi have the latest qt sdk already :p22:30
MohammadAGthen you made me say it twice for no reason? fk u22:31
GeneralAntillesepage, does it require another swipe?22:33
GeneralAntillesepage, yeah, way too fiddly with adrenaline going.22:34
epageDrag bottom to an inch or two up and hold22:34
epageAlso it doesn't work with everything like event view and keyboard22:35
rm_youantman8969: the OBS yes, but sometimes these things take effort to recompile22:36
MohammadAGI'll ask again, is OBS up?22:37
MohammadAGcause otherwise I want to make a repo with shit missing from the SDK22:37
rm_youMohammadAG: yeah, so thats what i want to do too -- want to work together?22:38
MohammadAGI can give you access if I make it an outside repo22:38
MohammadAGgit, svn, x11-utils (xprop and friends)22:39
antman8969yes obs is up!22:39
antman8969weather i'ts as functional as you want it to be...22:39
rm_youi was going to make a web interface to upload packages and a quick approval interface for admins22:39
GeneralAntillesepage, I need something I can just tap on.22:39
MohammadAGwas aiming for an ftp based solution22:39
MohammadAGor scp22:39
rm_youthat works too22:39
rm_youftp or scp to one place22:39
MohammadAGala dput22:40
GeneralAntillesOtherwise they tend to freak out when you put a camera in their face for too long.22:40
epageYeah I like the camera cover choice22:40
antman8969what worries me about that rm_you is that eventually OBS will be up, and then people will inevitably migrate to it and redo all their library building22:40
rm_youand can still have an approval interface22:40
epage(on n900)22:40
rm_youantman8969: does OBS have a central libs thing? right now it seems like OBS is setting up PPAs22:40
rm_youantman8969: i'm under the impression that even WITH obs, i can't utilize all the packages that everyone else already ported and compiled22:40
antman8969thats pretty much what it's doing, aside from the core meego repo that you can build against22:41
rm_youantman8969: am i wrong?22:41
antman8969ooh yea you are lol22:41
antman8969the whole idea is22:41
antman8969you build against other people's ppas22:41
antman8969so if we both were on obs, and you made liboauth, I could use your liboauth22:41
antman8969and you could build liboauth by using core Meego's libcurl and ssl and stuff22:41
rm_youah ok22:41
MohammadAGhow do I know you made liboauth0 through terminal22:41
rm_youMohammadAG: that22:41
rm_youantman8969: that ^^^22:42
antman8969osc is the application I think22:42
antman8969theres a search feature22:42
rm_youdoes it automatically include everyone's PPA?22:42
antman8969it's on the wiki somewhere22:42
antman8969and theres always the web interface too22:42
rm_youi'd just make a cron script to check what PPAs exist and automatically add them all22:42
MohammadAGI don't want a web interface22:42
rm_youi guess22:42
antman8969lol hardcore huh..22:42
MohammadAGI want something similar to apt-get install22:42
rm_youthis ^^^22:42
antman8969well yea, you could just use a script to search the or w/e it is22:42
MohammadAGif it works, it's there, if not, I package it and ship it to something like -devel22:43
antman8969its a pretty different model22:43
antman8969and I havn't gotten it to make debs yet either22:43
antman8969the point is, soon it will, and to fragment the devs between a private repo and the intended one22:43
antman8969seems like a deterrant22:43
antman8969not to mention22:43
antman8969the n9 will never be our n90022:44
MohammadAGI dislike the concept of private repos22:44
antman8969i mispoke, I meant a repo that we set up22:44
antman8969as opposed to the standard meego obs22:44
antman8969it's lame in some ways22:45
antman8969but I guess I don't consider this "my phone" really, just a device I use to test end user content22:45
antman8969I can't bring it with me and treat it like the n90022:45
antman8969because I'm not allowed to do anything because of aegis...22:46
rm_youwell, can I get into OBS?22:54
antman8969lol never got a hold of lbt?22:58
antman8969I actually just tried to talk to him in #meego but no answer22:58
rm_youi left a message for X-Fade but he never responded either22:59
antman8969maybe they did ? go to and try to login with your password23:00
antman8969thats not te url lol sry, let  me get it23:00
antman8969but yea I understand your frustration, without any library source all you can make is plain qt apps23:02
rm_youyes, very frustrating23:02
antman8969I would actually just develop for maemo in the mean time honestly23:02
antman8969I have a client that uses libouath and it's in extras for maemo so I was able to make it there23:03
antman8969now I'm just waiting to port it23:03
rm_youthe apps i want are IN maemo23:03
rm_youi need to port them to harmattan23:03
rm_youthat's the POINT23:03
antman8969alright then, yea just twiddle your thumbs a little longer23:03
antman8969or make simple qt web apps that ppl want / need ?23:03
antman8969who knows23:03
antman8969anything productive23:03
rm_youthe Qt app i want to make requires backend libs23:05
rm_youso i'm really about to just give up for a while23:05
rm_youlbt: here maybe23:06
lbtor here23:06
rm_youOBS? :)23:06 account23:06
lbtdid you read up on Surrounds?23:07
lbttrying to provide a framework that gives us something a little better than Extras23:08
rm_youthat was... minimally informative23:08
rm_youmy issue is lack of libs to compile against23:08
rm_youspent yesterday trying to tackle about 100 nested dependencies23:09
rm_youi felt like i was back in 199023:09
rm_youexcept instead of just installing them, i had to compile them all23:09
lbtso the question I have is more "how do we maintain them?"23:09
rm_youwasn't expecting developing Harmattan apps to be like installing Linux From Scratch :P23:09
rm_youthe maemo-extras system for ITOS2008 seemed to work well23:10
antman8969similarly to how they were maintained on extras I suppose?23:10
antman8969and even if it didn't, with no replacement system then all we can make are qt apps23:10
lbtthey weren't maintained ... they were tossed into a pile23:10
rm_youi never actually compiled anything for maemo5 really, besides ABL23:10
rm_youwell, it was better than nothing23:11
rm_youwhich is what we seem to have now23:11
rm_youbut i get your point23:11
rm_youwe should be brainstorming and discussing something that is even better23:11
lbtwe did that ...23:11
lbtdid you actually read that page?23:11
lbtand follow the links?23:11
rm_youno :/23:11
rm_youyeah reading it now23:12
antman8969lbt before you go23:12
lbtbear in mind that is a goal... not a step 1 :)23:12
lbtantman8969: sure...23:12
antman8969do you know if the harmattan obs target is working? I was trying to compile against it (because harmattan starts its apps using invoker / Mdeclarativewindow) but it won't appearr in the build status after being added23:13
lbtwhich proj/pkg ?23:13
antman8969auto complete filled in for me23:14
antman8969upon a harmattan search23:14
rm_youso surrounds is what i'm talking about needing23:15
antman8969which is Meego:1.2:harmattan23:15
lbtrm_you: yep...23:15
lbtIMHO ... porting/maintaining ?23:15
rm_youbut... it is not really in place yet / functional?23:15
lbtrm_you: only because no-one else has really stepped up23:15
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rm_youlbt: so what do I have to do to "step up" and help?23:16
rm_youi guess that's not really clear to me23:16
lbtI don't think we have a clear answer....23:18
lbtdo we need to simply have maintainers for libraries?23:18
lbtdo we need to nominate an upstream?23:18
antman8969what is the alternative?23:19
rm_youwell i have been using either squeeze or natty as my upstream23:19
lbttake on full 'maintainership' .... monitor for security, own bugs23:19
rm_yousince they come with debian buildrules23:19
lbtrm_you: and this is the point .. at least get everyone on the same page :)23:20
rm_youyou mentioned using openSuse, i assume because they already use OBS (and, wrote it?)23:20
rm_youi don't really CARE23:20
rm_youas long as it works23:20
lbtbear in mind this was for MeeGo23:20
rm_youand i think many people are in the same position23:20
rm_youthey'd rather not even KNOW how it works so long as it does23:20
lbtand Harmattan is not rpm based23:20
rm_youwe can pick squeeze or natty and run?23:21
rm_youi'm not actually sure which is a closer fit23:21
rm_youdebian might be better from a #legal standpoint23:21
antman8969if you launch your apps using the invoker then you won't be able to compile23:21
lbtantman8969: you had armvel23:22
antman8969auto complete :/ assumed it was meaningful23:22
antman8969lbt, could libs be treated like every other package? Someone builds in their home and then promotes to testing to get migrated?23:23
lbtclearly you're helping us idiot proof it ;)23:23
lbtyes, that makes sense23:23
lbtI'd suggest we have Surrounds:Testing though23:23
rm_youwell that doesn't solve the main problem he brought up about compatibility across projects with no real maintainer for the lib23:24
rm_youi thought23:24
rm_youbecause that's still just "port and forget"23:24
rm_youthen again that's still SOMETHING23:24
lbtyes - but then we can automate tracking the upstream23:24
antman8969and the libs would stay up to date as long as someone wanted them to be23:24
antman8969well hey, the sooner the better, can really develop atm...23:25
lbtantman8969: you appear to have written a .spec for harmattan ... :)23:25
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antman8969lol ye athat wasn't in there first... I couldn't find how to trigger a deb build23:26
antman8969should I upload my debian directory??23:26
antman8969 / rules23:26
lbtyou need a .dsc23:26
antman8969well thats great...23:26
antman8969uploading now23:26
lbtI assume debian/ is in the tarball23:26
antman8969did you happen to do someting just now?23:27
rm_youlbt: so assuming i have a source deb/tar.gz, how do i go about getting it built in OBS?23:27
antman8969the repo is now appearing23:27
lbtI did ... I added armv7el23:27
lbtrm_you: upload the .dsc and the .tar.gz ... wait23:28
lbtthat's it ... just upload them23:29
rm_youreading this:
rm_youis it accurate to our instance?23:29
lbthas anyone got a nice python qml app for harmattan ?23:29
rm_youumm ok so23:30
rm_youi'm trying to build this:23:30
rm_youi uploaded it via the web interface into a package i created called "x264"23:31
rm_youso what now23:31
epagelbt not yet, just getting started learning qml and it has been enough of a pain that I'm making some debugging tools first (dislike IDEs)23:31
rm_youi feel like i'm missing the point entirely23:31
lbtepage: OK ... emacs only for me :)23:31
epageeven emacs is too bloated :P23:32
lbtrm_you: a .dsc23:32
lbtepage: ah.... you miss the point... emacs defines "just right"23:32
lbtrm_you: you need to have packaged it ... yes?23:32
rm_youlbt: what? the entire point of this is that i haven't managed to package it because it requires like 20 libs23:33
rm_youhave been trying in SB23:33
lbtmmm ... Harmattan is a distro.23:34
rm_youspent yesterday working through 10 or so of them and getting those to compile23:34
lbtcompile... not packaged?23:34
rm_youdebs yes23:34
rm_youbut i haven't finished yet23:34
lbtso each of them needs uploading23:34
rm_youso i upload what... the debs?23:34
rm_youfor the libs i've done?23:35
lbtwhy would you upload debs to a builder?23:35
rm_younot sure23:35
lbtdid you use autobuilder?23:35
rm_youbut you asked if they were packaged23:35
antman8969upload the tar.gz and a dsc23:35
lbtantman8969: I did say that didn't I ?23:35
antman8969you said deb I thought23:35
lbt23/07/2011 20:28] <lbt> rm_you: upload the .dsc and the .tar.gz ... wait23:36
rm_youso... for the package "x264", i upload the 20 or so tar.gz and .dsc pairs?23:36
rm_youand it will compile them all? or23:36
rm_youthis doesn't seem any different than scratchbox23:36
lbtI'm thinking you need to grok what a package is23:37
rm_youfor the last 10 years, to me, package == .deb or .rpm23:37
antman8969it makes the deb23:37
rm_youanything less than that is "source files"23:37
antman8969from the tar.gz23:37
lbtah ... so now you're on the other side23:37
rm_youoh you meant "package" in OBS23:38
lbt"to package" : create the distro-specific rules to turn a tarball into a .deb or .rpm23:38
rm_youok, so the verb, not the noin23:38
rm_youyeah so back when i built ebuilds for gentoo, or when i write debian/rules, etc23:39
rm_youi am "packaging"23:39
lbtI assumed.... sry23:39
rm_youi guess what i'm struggling to understand is, how is OBS helping me at all with dependencies vs. just using SB23:39
rm_youmaybe the problem is i was misinformed earlier23:39
rm_youwhen we were discussing what OBS was supposed to help with23:40
rm_youi remember using OBS for Mer23:40
antman8969well, you will be helping ppl23:40
lbtOBS is a scalable packaging system for a distro23:40
rm_youand when i wanted to build a package, i would ssh in to my machine with OBS, and say "build this tar.gzs please" and it would automatically download the source for every dep and compile it for me23:40
dm8tbrthe idea is that those packages are available to everyone to base off or just use them23:40
SpeedEvilAnd that only one person needs to build liblzma23:41
rm_youthis does not appear to be even remotely similar to the OBS i used for Mer23:41
SpeedEvilOr whatever23:41
rm_youfirst of all, that was in a shell :P23:41
rm_youbut regardless23:41
lbtrm_you: it's identical :)23:42
rm_youi was expecting it to automatically grab source from somewhere (like debian or somesuch) and take care of a lot of things for me23:42
rm_youso if i'm trying to compile this app, and it has 20 depends... do i have to upload the source for the depends myself too?23:42
lbtrm_you: ah... you've been reading Asimov again :)23:42
rm_youbut that's HOW IT WORKED for Mer23:42
rm_youthis isn't fantasy :/23:42
lbtno... it's really not23:42
rm_youi actually DID this23:43
lbtI wuz there23:43
dm8tbrrm_you: if those libs have already been packaged, no23:43
rm_youso i guess Mer was just 1000% more fully built-out than Harmattan is23:43
rm_youand that's the problem :/23:43
DocScrutinizerthe point23:44
lbtbut it sounds like you're building some video system ?23:44
dm8tbrI guess OBS was not around from day-1 of fremantle23:44
lbtso .. usually "hello world" is a better starting point :)23:44
rm_youi can build a hello world prog in SB in like 20 seconds23:45
rm_youi guess i can try to then run that through OBS23:45
rm_youto "learn"23:45
rm_youis that your point?23:45
lbtand then build one that depends on another lib23:45
lbtpackage that lib23:45
rm_youwell, i guess I need to get all these libs compiling in SB first anyway23:45
lbtand see how the 2 interact23:45
rm_youso i can upload them to OBS23:45
rm_youso back to that for now23:45
lbtand you can do that anyway ....23:46
lbtas you get one to compile ... upload the .tgz and the .dsc23:46
lbtif it builds in a *clean* SB then it will (should) build on the OBS23:46
lbtso start at the bottom and work up23:46
DocScrutinizerfeels loke gentoo native23:47
rm_youright now i'm trying to figure out why dpkg-buildpackage says i have like 20 unmet depends on mplayer23:47
rm_youbut when i run ./configure && make, it successfully builds23:47
lbtDocScrutinizer: MeeGo is a new distro... that's the point23:47
DocScrutinizeryes, I know23:48
lbtrm_you: because dpkg-buildpackage looks to see if you've *installed* the build deps23:48
rm_youi think i need to build apt-source for SB23:48
lbtyou just make installed them23:48
rm_youlbt: but i haven't23:48
rm_youi mean23:48
rm_youi haven't make/installed them either23:48
DocScrutinizerand the distro maintainer did a job that's not exactly convincing and attracting "new developers"23:48
rm_youthese deps are like23:48
antman8969lbt is there a wiki page yet where people can claim what libs they intend to build, or something similar?23:49
rm_youthat doesn't even exist23:49
lbtDocScrutinizer: yes... they aren't building a distro23:49
lbtthey're building a baseline for commercial vendors to build products23:49
lbtif you want a distro... look around23:49
DocScrutinizerhey, isn't that the same?23:49
lbtdown to us mate :)23:49
lbtno.. it's really not23:49
lbtantman8969: yes.. ITP23:50
DocScrutinizerI'd maintain my notion it is, just your target audience is different23:50
Clintlbt: can you add me too? (clint)23:50
lbtdone Clint23:51
antman8969very useful
lbtDocScrutinizer: yes ... but then 'we' think we're the target audience .. we're not23:51
Clintlbt: thanks23:51
* lbt is off for a bit ...23:52
rm_youi seem to have forgotten how the structure of a debian repo works23:52
rm_youi am looking at
rm_youi am expecting there to be a source tar.gz there]23:52
DocScrutinizerlbt: how's that? are we not professional enough? :-o23:53
rm_youdo i need to be looking in a different place for the source?23:53
antman8969you're wondering how to... upload the source? or where to get it?23:54
rm_youwhere to get it23:54
rm_younormally when i want source, i just go to the repo and grab it23:54
rm_youand usually it is right next to the deb23:54
rm_youthe version in garage was the one built only for diablo23:54
rm_youi need the source from the fremantle port23:54
rm_youlike this:
DocScrutinizerlbt: look there are distros for dentists, distros for musicians, distros for developers of games, distros for musicians, even distros for FPGA programmer EE23:56
rm_youthere are the debs, and the source tar.gz, and the dsc and the patches for the distro23:56
antman8969i am about to leave but23:56
antman8969that should be helpful23:56
rm_youit puts it in a seperate tree23:56
DocScrutinizerI really can't see why this distro for commercial vendors to build products is so terribly poorly supported and maintained23:56
rm_youthanks antman896923:57
antman8969yea, like when you add it  to apt you need to make it a deb or a deb-src23:57
antman8969ill bbl gl23:57
lbtDocScrutinizer: because a distro for dentists usually bases on top of a general purpose distro. MeeGo bases on a bare-minimum distro.23:57
*** lbt is now known as lbt_away23:57
DocScrutinizerlook at specialized meta distros, like e.g knoppix23:58
DocScrutinizera rescue distro for the only purpose to recover broken systems23:58
rm_youmaybe I am missing a repo?23:59
rm_youin scratchbox?23:59

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