| javispedro | that way I do not have to patch _all_ of the unix daemons that try to drop its privileges that way. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer | FYI (I heard the "ignore the errors" advice :-D) http://paste.debian.net/123820/ | 00:00 |
| achipa | i know, I just pasted those from a develsh | 00:01 |
| mgedmin | fiferboy, where are you? | 00:01 |
| javispedro | Damion3: _calling conventions_. They're different. For floating point arguments at least. | 00:01 |
| achipa | javispedro: we misunderstood each other i think | 00:02 |
| achipa | I make id setuid root... NOT CAP::setuid | 00:02 |
| achipa | s/id/it/ | 00:02 |
| infobot | achipa meant: I make it setuid root... NOT CAP::setuid | 00:02 |
| achipa | made it | 00:02 |
| achipa | duh | 00:02 |
| Damion3 | I assume aegis permits having stuff run as user do things like listen on ports under q0w4 | 00:02 |
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| javispedro | Damion3: surprise!: no. | 00:03 |
| javispedro | well | 00:03 |
| javispedro | not entirely true | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: blue nice mc, as user | 00:03 |
| javispedro | that's CAP::net_bind_service | 00:03 |
| javispedro | which you can indeed request, but then the usual unix limitations apply. | 00:03 |
| Damion3 | you mean you need root too? | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | now let's see which directory/file to touch accidentally to make aegis nuke the device ;-) | 00:03 |
| javispedro | yes | 00:04 |
| Damion3 | actually you could use setcap against the file if the filesystem supports it | 00:04 |
| Damion3 | which is usual unix limitations | 00:04 |
| javispedro | and to use setcap you need... root. | 00:04 |
| Damion3 | well once, at install time | 00:04 |
| javispedro | which means you probably also need to request some privileges for the install scripts | 00:05 |
| Damion3 | yes, that will be some pain | 00:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL /home/developer ?? | 00:06 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: for MADDE | 00:07 |
| Damion3 | do nokia only want everyone to develop lame ass fart apps and other basic gui nonsense? all my projects need root (well what would be root pre aegis days), kernel, and other low level faffage | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 00:07 |
| Damion3 | h that said, mediatomb for sharing images with my PS3 should work as it listens >1024 | 00:08 |
| wazd | javispedro: ping! | 00:10 |
| javispedro | wazd: hi! | 00:11 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: btw, findutils-gnu fails to purge, broken postrm | 00:11 |
| wazd | javispedro: heya! :) I'm in the N950 gang too now :P | 00:11 |
| wazd | javispedro: http://zhil.in/emus/snes2.svg :) | 00:11 |
| javispedro | wazd: yeah, saw you on the list! | 00:11 |
| javispedro | ah, great! | 00:11 |
| wazd | javispedro: this is for you :P | 00:11 |
| javispedro | many thanks :D | 00:11 |
| Damion3 | ARG!!! | 00:12 |
| wazd | javispedro: maybe we should also update the artwork? | 00:12 |
| Damion3 | I fricking use Ctrl-Q quite a lot | 00:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: actually I consider a find that doesn't work as root rather useless tbh | 00:12 |
| javispedro | wazd: I will probably entirely redo the interface, and make it more like a "list of found ROMs" in the theme of other harmattan apps (like docs, notes, etc.) | 00:13 |
| javispedro | and probably add screenshot for each rom support (from your last save) | 00:13 |
| Damion3 | well, to be honest I accidently press Ctrl-S quite a lot | 00:13 |
| *** antman8969 has quit IRC | 00:13 | |
| Damion3 | so... I keep quitting the terminal | 00:13 |
| mgedmin | ouch | 00:13 |
| mgedmin | ouch ouch ouch | 00:13 |
| Damion3 | thank heaven for screen | 00:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: funny enough this find-utils.deb for N900 installs and works on harmattan at all | 00:14 |
| mgedmin | meego-terminal annoys me by setting $TERM to linux | 00:14 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: yes, I found it useless too and tried to uninstall it, when I found I cannot. | 00:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 00:14 |
| mgedmin | I've ancient mutt configs that source ~/.mutt/colors.$TERM | 00:14 |
| Damion3 | mgedmin: at least you can change that easily | 00:14 |
| mgedmin | all my latest color customizations are in colors.xterm | 00:14 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: is it a lie? does it really use linux escape sequences? | 00:14 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: you could probably file the bug | 00:14 |
| mgedmin | javispedro, that's an extremely good question! | 00:14 |
| mgedmin | and the reason why I'm reluctant to just blindly change $TERM to something else | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | so how would we get aegis to allow execution of arbitrary stuff as root? | 00:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | you'd think somebody @ nokia could create / patch the policy for unknown-origin? | 00:16 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: only idea: I should make that app that allows creating digsigs for arbitrary executable | 00:16 |
| wazd | javispedro: sounds cool :) | 00:16 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: but it also creates more problems: who will remove the signatures, etc. | 00:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, I think this should get fixed in the basic policy applied to all such binaries | 00:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | hell, if we could get am abundance of N900 stuff to work on N950 under developermode root, I'd almost be willing to forget there's any aegis for now | 00:18 |
| javispedro | try i2c-tools from N900 | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah | 00:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then this definitely needs root :-( | 00:19 |
| MohammadAG | javispedro, then edit the postrm :P | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 00:19 |
| javispedro | as per the experiments above seems that the dynamic loader will not refuse to load mismatched EABI tags | 00:19 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders what happens if you add an 'app' like debian-chroot | 00:19 | |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, for your safety and to reduce terrorism, we have disabled that for you | 00:20 |
| javispedro | so it means you shall see funny failures if you try to run fremantle floating point apps in harmattan. | 00:20 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: disaster | 00:20 |
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| Damion3 | SpeedEvil: there is a thread about this | 00:20 |
| Damion3 | aegis does have CAP::sys_chroot | 00:20 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil: from the guy who made the Debian chroot: http://twitter.com/#!/qole | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 00:21 |
| javispedro | you cannot digsig packages that are not on a image that is mounted during boottime | 00:21 |
| javispedro | therefore, he cannot run the binaries on the chroot .ext3 image | 00:21 |
| Damion3 | I've successfully run x86 binaries with a static qemu-user running ld-linux.so ./x86binary | 00:22 |
| Damion3 | but much more stuff works with a chroot | 00:22 |
| javispedro | congratulations! you just found how to bypass aegis. | 00:22 |
| mgedmin | why couldn't nokia set up proper apt signing for scratchbox repos? | 00:22 |
| javispedro | Damion3: x86binary is _never_ mapped with PROT_EXEC, but rather interpreted | 00:22 |
| mgedmin | that's the sh ./shellscript.sh equivalent for binaries | 00:22 |
| javispedro | and that's why aegis is useless. | 00:23 |
| Damion3 | no | 00:23 |
| javispedro | at least, the stupid stock policy. | 00:23 |
| Damion3 | because that binary when interpreted still uses ENTER to make natively run syscalls which are subject to aegis | 00:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA ROTFL | 00:23 |
| javispedro | Damion3: but it _RUNS_ despite being unsigned, and forbidding that is for some reason stock aegis policy. | 00:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway, now for good: bbl | 00:24 |
| Damion3 | I never bothered compiling xsetkbd for arm using my qemu trick to set Ctrl to be sticky | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | Hmm | 00:25 |
| SpeedEvil | What happens if you run a program under gdb? | 00:25 |
| javispedro | (note: if you want to run unsigned binaries as user, --relaxed-exec still works pretty well for that) | 00:25 |
| Damion3 | javispedro: also obviously qemu the arm binary still needs to be given exec ability | 00:25 |
| Damion3 | hmm, you could do it once for a copy of /lib/ld-linux.so and yes use the binary version of sh ./binary :) | 00:26 |
| javispedro | that's not entirely true | 00:27 |
| javispedro | the dynamic loader _will_ of course mmap pages with PROT_EXEC, and aegis will catch that. | 00:27 |
| Damion3 | mm ahha | 00:27 |
| Damion3 | that's why noexec on mount stops that trick | 00:27 |
| javispedro | it is qemu the only one that will NOT mmap external, foreign architecture executable pages as PROT_EXEC (what for? it's not going to jump to them) | 00:27 |
| Damion3 | indeedn | 00:27 |
| javispedro | (not: qemu might very well do, for lazyness reasons, but it needn't...) | 00:30 |
| javispedro | s/not/note | 00:30 |
| mgedmin | ooh, interesting | 00:31 |
| Damion3 | mistak | 00:32 |
| Damion3 | s/tak/take | 00:32 |
| Damion3 | s/tak/take/ | 00:32 |
| infobot | Damion3 meant: s/take/take | 00:32 |
| Damion3 | ahh, the lack of trailing slash | 00:32 |
| * javispedro sighs | 00:32 | |
| javispedro | It's a tradition for me to skip the trailing slash, I do not want infobot to actually spam the channel | 00:32 |
| Damion3 | hh | 00:33 |
| Damion3 | gah the screensaver took my a | 00:33 |
| javispedro | now I am _really_ interested in usb hos | 00:35 |
| javispedro | t | 00:35 |
| javispedro | I bought one of those newfangled livescribe pens and hte protocol is standard OBEX. I already made a QGraphicsView app that shows the stuff I wrote on the starter notebook's first page =) | 00:36 |
| javispedro | (OBEX over USB CDC, ofc) | 00:36 |
| Damion3 | do the n950 and n9 have the same issues as n900? | 00:39 |
| Damion3 | unbeliveable complex kludgy kernel hacks making the h/ware sort of work? | 00:40 |
| javispedro | they might have less problems, but without schematic we do not know. and usb host is disabled from kernel | 00:40 |
| Damion3 | oh, it might be slightly better? hmm useful | 00:40 |
| javispedro | no, not saying that: more like "nfi". | 00:40 |
| Damion3 | I noticed them boasting about the otg/host stuff on the n8 video | 00:40 |
| Damion3 | I have a usb one time password device that would be handy to use on the phone | 00:42 |
| Damion3 | just hidkbd | 00:42 |
| * javispedro ponders that enabling support for random usb devices is probably a nogo for devices as the attack surface area would exponentially increase | 00:43 | |
| javispedro | s/for devices/for aegis | 00:43 |
| Damion3 | wouldn't a lot of these issues be a bit of a non-issue if we simply got it working in relaxed/disabled/open aegis mode and then handed it to nokia to sign and make it all packaged and official? | 00:46 |
| javispedro | that's why I am saying it's very likely a nogo | 00:47 |
| javispedro | usb host means lots of kernel LoCs, and would make aegis easily breakable, even in closed mode. | 00:47 |
| Damion3 | you don't think they'd like this? | 00:47 |
| Damion3 | ahh | 00:48 |
| Damion3 | a few stock types like hid, storage, would do | 00:48 |
| Damion3 | that wouldn't help you though :) | 00:48 |
| javispedro | oh, cdc is enough for me. | 00:49 |
| javispedro | cdc = all network cards, modems, and serial to usb converters. not a small group... | 00:49 |
| Damion3 | by the way does everyone's keyboard LEDs flicker all the time? | 00:49 |
| crevetor | Damion3: nope | 00:49 |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 00:49 | |
| Damion3 | hmm | 00:49 |
| crevetor | At some point mine didn't work at all | 00:50 |
| crevetor | it worked after rebooting the device | 00:50 |
| Damion3 | it looks like it's showing network traffic or some other indicator | 00:50 |
| Damion3 | ie not a h/ware bug but some special mode for debugging | 00:50 |
| Damion3 | somebody has says that as I'm able to echo 0 to the security stuff to disable aegis, this might be sone r&d version | 00:51 |
| javispedro | validator-init seals those values in my device | 00:53 |
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| mgedmin | where do I find libfribidi-dev? | 01:09 |
| javispedro | why, oh, why is the N950 video player slow decoding 480p h264? | 01:10 |
| javispedro | I mean, awesome screen, and I can only watch videos at a lower resolution that what the N900 is capable of. | 01:10 |
| lcuk | javispedro, are you sure it is decoding, or xvideo mode used | 01:10 |
| lcuk | i notice that liqbase appears to be being composited | 01:11 |
| javispedro | yes! I also suspect that | 01:11 |
| lcuk | and in doing so has to go through a yuv->rgb conversion | 01:11 |
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| mgedmin | iirc the n9 coming soon page claimed it was able to do 720p video | 01:11 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: try it. I can only do 360p video. | 01:11 |
| javispedro | (h264) | 01:11 |
| lcuk | hang on | 01:12 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | Damion3: (kbd flicker) I noticed it for a sub-second period one time. Looks like N900 R+D mode | 01:12 |
| lcuk | liqbase is not being composited | 01:12 |
| mgedmin | my n950 can play the 9 trailer from my n900 fine; I don't have any better-quality videos in easy reach | 01:12 |
| javispedro | I have some trailer here which is _exactly_ 854x480, and it plays sloooooooooowly. | 01:12 |
| lcuk | it just runs poorly | 01:12 |
| lcuk | sintel_trailer does not play | 01:13 |
| lcuk | it is .ogv | 01:13 |
| javispedro | nah, no theora yet | 01:13 |
| javispedro | neither on8 | 01:13 |
| javispedro | thank the gods we have vorbis | 01:13 |
| javispedro | (and I thank them very, very much for that) | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Where are the wallpapers stored? | 01:20 |
| rm_you | where is MUSIC stored? i put an m3u and a pls in MyDocs/Music and the player didn't find either of them | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | WFM | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, with some .mp4 | 01:23 |
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| npm | ~/MyDocs/Music : -rw-r--r-- 1 user root 74681773 Jul 18 17:33 RA268_110718_Ed-Davenport-residentadvisor.net.mp3 | 01:27 |
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| mgedmin | rm_you, I bluetooth'ed some mp3 files, they ended up in ~/MyDocs/.sounds/ | 01:27 |
| npm | playing now. finally, meego that plays mp3s out of the box | 01:27 |
| mgedmin | npm, didn't you hear? it's not meego :) | 01:28 |
| npm | yes, i have a sense of humor | 01:28 |
| rm_you | hrmrm | 01:29 |
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| MohammadAG | any QML experts around? | 01:30 |
| npm | i was hoping those little holes on the side of the display part was some kind of special loudspeaker.. | 01:31 |
| npm | what are they? | 01:31 |
| javispedro | they are a speakr | 01:31 |
| javispedro | but only for voice calls as far as I can see. | 01:32 |
| npm | oh! | 01:32 |
| MohammadAG | Got an idea, but I'm not sure if QtMobility requires C++ bindings in QML | 01:32 |
| epage | MohammadAG: I'm a QML beginner myself but I'd be curious what your question if nothing else to provide more areas for me to learn | 01:32 |
| npm | MohammadAG: some parts of qtmobility are interfaced, others aren't | 01:33 |
| MohammadAG | Microphone access | 01:33 |
| *** wazd has quit IRC | 01:34 | |
| npm | qt-mobility-opensource-src-1.2.0/examples/audiodevices/main.cpp | 01:34 |
| npm | qt-mobility-opensource-src-1.2.0/examples/audiorecorder/main.cpp | 01:35 |
| npm | are good places to start | 01:35 |
| rm_you | what is the resolution of this display? is it really 720p? it doesn't seem like that's probable, so are we expecting it to downscale that to 480p? | 01:36 |
| MohammadAG | qml? | 01:36 |
| javispedro | rm_you: obviously | 01:36 |
| javispedro | rm_you: resolution is 854x480 btw | 01:36 |
| javispedro | on N9 it will be lower | 01:36 |
| mgedmin | eh? I thought it was the same | 01:37 |
| mgedmin | the screen size in inches is a bit smaller | 01:37 |
| javispedro | N9 uses PenTile | 01:37 |
| mgedmin | thus making the ppi higher | 01:37 |
| MohammadAG | wtf? | 01:37 |
| mgedmin | which means...? | 01:37 |
| javispedro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PenTile#PenTile_RGBG | 01:37 |
| javispedro | read both that and controversy section | 01:37 |
| GAN900 | bullshit pixel counting | 01:37 |
| mgedmin | I remember an admonition saying "do not use 1-pixel-wide lines in text or graphics" because of the N9's AMOLED display | 01:37 |
| javispedro | it's because it is PenTile, not any AMOLED limitation perse. | 01:38 |
| SpeedEvil | It's because a pixel is only a pixel, not three as in the case of most | 01:38 |
| mgedmin | interesting | 01:38 |
| npm | there's no "recording" in qtmobility QML http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2/qml-multimedia.html | 01:38 |
| GAN900 | Most AMOLEDs that are out there are PenTile, though. | 01:38 |
| npm | ^^ MohammadAG | 01:38 |
| MohammadAG | why is it pentile? | 01:38 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: cheap | 01:38 |
| javispedro | *er | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | well the N9's screen is expensive as is | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | thanks to swipe | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | npm, C++ it is, easier for me I guess | 01:39 |
| SpeedEvil | I question the curve adds much if you buy Lots | 01:39 |
| MohammadAG | second question, call C++ methods directly or using signals/slots? | 01:39 |
| npm | fortunately, adding C++ stuff from qtmobility is pretty easy... i went through a lot of handwringing about using pyside to get this in http://code.google.com/p/ytd-meego/wiki/CitizenJournalismWithYoutubeDirectForMeego but C++ is so easy to add into QML that it's easier to skip python... already got QML anyways | 01:40 |
| MohammadAG | I dislike python | 01:41 |
| mgedmin | why? | 01:41 |
| npm | by the way if anybody wants to help on the above, it's open source and it's meego, and the n950 camera will be the best Youtube direct source yet | 01:41 |
| MohammadAG | Too slow imo | 01:41 |
| *** Scifig has quit IRC | 01:42 | |
| GAN900 | Portrait vkb ism't the world's worst feature but I wish it didn't cost so much. | 01:42 |
| epage | Performance all depends on the app. The place I probably get burned the most by python is start up time | 01:43 |
| MohammadAG | exactly | 01:43 |
| mgedmin | hey, seriously, where do I get libfribidi-dev for harmattan? | 01:43 |
| mgedmin | AFAICT libfribidi0 is preinstalled on a n950 | 01:43 |
| npm | i've been a long time non-fan of python: http://www.python.org/search/hypermail/python-1994q2/1006.html :-) | 01:44 |
| npm | but i will admit to writing in it, and wishing i was using a better language (like lisp, or even javascript) | 01:44 |
| epage | I tried learnign javascript, drove me nuts. I'm curious in what way you prefer it? | 01:45 |
| mgedmin | oookay | 01:45 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: not on mine | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | the little holes at side of screen are the stereo mics | 01:45 |
| mgedmin | (seriously, javascript???? javascript??????) | 01:45 |
| npm | you have to use the rigth parts of javascript http://www.amazon.com/JavaScript-Good-Parts-Douglas-Crockford/dp/0596517742 | 01:46 |
| mgedmin | never mind, I'm sure you can find criteria according to which js is better than python (e.g. better modern JIT compilers) | 01:46 |
| npm | (i don't have the book, but i already use the bood parts of javascript...) | 01:46 |
| epage | Mm I sure wish I had access to those jits in python | 01:46 |
| mgedmin | pypy is slowly getting there | 01:47 |
| epage | I | 01:47 |
| npm | see http://code.google.com/p/qtzibit/ for an example of "modern javascript" | 01:47 |
| npm | s/bood/good | 01:47 |
| npm | re [15:46] <npm> (i don't have the book, but i already use the bood parts of javascript...) | 01:47 |
| epage | I've heard how they've reduced memory usage relative to themselves but I'm waiting for pypy to add a memory benchmark to their benchmark site (and I can't tell which of their benchmarks might cover startup time but that is another important one) | 01:48 |
| mgedmin | anybody with a harmattan scratchbox here? | 01:48 |
| npm | i have a feeling that javascript runs faster in qtwebkit than qml | 01:48 |
| javispedro | npm: i think it's true | 01:48 |
| javispedro | qml used jscore | 01:48 |
| mgedmin | are there any useful apt sources I ought to add? | 01:48 |
| javispedro | while qtwebkit probably uses squirrel or some of the newer ones | 01:48 |
| mgedmin | I've harmattan/sdk in there; libfribidi-dev is not there... | 01:49 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: I do not have fribidi on the device | 01:49 |
| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qtzibit-youtube.png seems to process 388 youtube feeds faster than say qmltube | 01:49 |
| mgedmin | oh? curious! | 01:49 |
| npm | and only took a page of code to write :-) | 01:49 |
| javispedro | mgedmin: therefore, you are from now on the maintainer of libfribidi for harmattan. | 01:49 |
| mgedmin | oh! I got it from fiferboy's repo along with fbreader! | 01:49 |
| mgedmin | duh | 01:49 |
| javispedro | dang it! ;) | 01:49 |
| mgedmin | s/repo/web page/ | 01:50 |
| * mgedmin cringes waiting for infobot to butt in, then relaxes after realizing his 'duh' saved everyone from the interruption | 01:50 | |
| npm | i have no idea why i'm listening to this on these tiny Finnish speakers when i have much better Finnish ones nearby .. i guess it's the novelty of it :-) | 01:51 |
| npm | (and they're not Nokia's) | 01:51 |
| * javispedro lols at "Because Nokia employees can't sign Google's contributor's agreement, this isn't going to happen." | 01:52 | |
| mgedmin | oh, I'll cheat and download http://andrew.olmsted.ca/harmattan/packages/libfribidi0_0.10.4-6_armel.deb instead of building it myself | 01:52 |
| mgedmin | javispedro, context? | 01:53 |
| javispedro | https://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTBUG-13186 | 01:53 |
| rm_you | LOL yeah 720p h264 does not work AT ALL. | 01:53 |
| rm_you | T_T | 01:53 |
| rm_you | need to get mplayer compiled | 01:53 |
| mgedmin | yay mplayer | 01:54 |
| rm_you | ... working on it... | 01:54 |
| javispedro | mplayer will work even worse | 01:54 |
| mgedmin | I want to listen to internet radio | 01:54 |
| mgedmin | the laptop that was connected to our large office speakers kind of died | 01:54 |
| mgedmin | well, it didn't die, but its sound card did | 01:54 |
| mgedmin | so I've been plugging my n950 to the speakers and wishing it could stream internet radio | 01:54 |
| npm | use your n950... i'm rockin my 950 instead of http://www.genelec.com/ (nice job nokia sounds great) | 01:54 |
| rm_you | mgedmin: it can | 01:55 |
| rm_you | mgedmin: if you download a playlist from somewhere and run it from transfers, it will play (like di.fm etc) | 01:55 |
| mgedmin | ah, interesting | 01:57 |
| mgedmin | somebody told me the other day on IRC that the media player on the n950 didn't support that | 01:58 |
| rm_you | i have not yet figured out how to get the music player to actually SEE the playlist files and play them once they're downloaded though, nor can i figure out how to actually browse the filesystem and launch the playlists from outside of the transfers winfow | 01:58 |
| rm_you | *window | 01:58 |
| MohammadAG | you do realize the N950 uses MafwRenderer | 01:58 |
| rm_you | javispedro: why will mplayer work worse? | 01:58 |
| MohammadAG | so it should do what the N900 can do and more | 01:58 |
| javispedro | rm_you: no dsp codecs | 01:59 |
| rm_you | javispedro: :/ | 01:59 |
| javispedro | and whatever is causing the stock media player to be slowed down will also cause mplayer to slow down | 01:59 |
| rm_you | :( | 01:59 |
| MohammadAG | I wonder if this is ala PR1.1 | 02:00 |
| npm | how do you invoke playbin on n950? gst-launch seems missing | 02:00 |
| MohammadAG | where even fullscreen windows were composited | 02:00 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG: nah, drnoksnes gets 400fps | 02:00 |
| MohammadAG | install gst-launch | 02:00 |
| npm | otherwise can't you just give gst-launch -v playbin 'uri= ...' and thats it | 02:00 |
| MohammadAG | oh, interesting | 02:00 |
| rm_you | umm, how do I get svn installed in scratchbox? | 02:01 |
| rm_you | >_> | 02:01 |
| npm | i have an alternate theory on video playback. aegis is blocing access to video HW, and someone forgot to add <credential name="GRP::video" /> to the video player ? | 02:02 |
| javispedro | that would be so stupid | 02:02 |
| mgedmin | also, funny | 02:02 |
| MohammadAG | doubt it | 02:02 |
| javispedro | for a change I am not even going to check it, I still have some trust in Nokia :) | 02:03 |
| npm | that caused my http://wiki.meego.com/tubelet-and-cutetube-port to give a black screen | 02:03 |
| npm | until i fixed it | 02:03 |
| MohammadAG | I mean, mafw bails when it can't handle errors | 02:03 |
| rm_you | <rm_you> umm, how do I get svn installed in scratchbox? | 02:03 |
| npm | by adding the aegis file | 02:03 |
| npm | w/ right settings | 02:03 |
| npm | actually it was bailing with random stupid messages that had nothing to do with it | 02:03 |
| javispedro | rm_you: change scratchbox target settings and add the svn devkit | 02:04 |
| rm_you | 10974 1 user S < 135m 13.6 14.1 /usr/bin/qmafw-dbus-wrapper /usr/lib/qmafw-plugin/libqmafw-gst-renderer-plugin.so | 02:04 |
| rm_you | the video is lagging | 02:04 |
| rm_you | and it is only use 14% CPU (using the dsp for decoding it seems) | 02:04 |
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| npm | there's also GRP::pulse-access ... so i'm wondering if that needs to be granted in order to get pulse to run in realtime mode? (which could be a security issue as you could DOS the device) | 02:05 |
| npm | that could also cause performance issues | 02:05 |
| npm | i'll be looking into that next round of hax | 02:05 |
| rm_you | javispedro: how? | 02:06 |
| * mgedmin so far went the easier way by running svn/git/whatever from outside scratchbox, with a ~/scratchbox -> /scratchbox/users/mg/home/mg symlink for convenience | 02:06 | |
| javispedro | rm_you: sb-menu ... blablabla | 02:06 |
| rm_you | yes but | 02:06 |
| npm | https://www.nixuopen.org/blog/2010/11/developing-for-meego-part-3/ is a helpful read | 02:06 |
| rm_you | from there what | 02:06 |
| javispedro | npm: audio is fine. also, you'd be surprised at how pulse is confirued. | 02:06 |
| javispedro | *configured | 02:07 |
| npm | actually i'm never surprised at how pulse is configured :-) (gum, bailing wire..) | 02:07 |
| rm_you | it said Devkit is installed in both | 02:07 |
| npm | i'm sure if you google for "pulseaudio" and "waste of batteries" you'll find one of my flames :-) | 02:08 |
| mgedmin | waaaaugh fiferboy did not upload a libfreebidi-dev deb, only the main libfreebidi0 deb | 02:08 |
| mgedmin | I've to compile freebidi from scratch apparently | 02:08 |
| * mgedmin is unhappy with people who don't distribute the source packages next to the binaries they've built | 02:08 | |
| npm | javispedro: audio is fine in that it works. but i'm not sure what causes the glitching of video. since video w/o audio didn't glitch | 02:09 |
| npm | pulseaudio usually pulls the rug out of just about everything, esp on a uniprocessor and running in realtime mode | 02:09 |
| rm_you | GAH GIVE ME SVN $(*#%&)#(^%* | 02:09 |
| MohammadAG | GAH GIVE ME SVN $(*#%&)#(^%*: Operation not permitted | 02:10 |
| npm | yeah, i'm suprised at how quickly svn became second rate supported | 02:10 |
| rm_you | but seriously | 02:10 |
| rm_you | javispedro: there is no option i see in sb-menu where the end result will be me having SVN | 02:11 |
| javispedro | you need to edit the target | 02:11 |
| kimju | you can always run svn outside sb, even within the sb directories.. | 02:12 |
| javispedro | a bit hard to explain and atm I'm trying to beat ovi suite into installing my maps | 02:12 |
| rm_you | javispedro: yeah tried every option and no luck | 02:13 |
| npm | accli -p `pgrep qmafw-dbus-wrapper` -I | 02:17 |
| npm | returns interesting results... and GRP::video is set | 02:17 |
| npm | accli -p `pgrep music-suite` -I | 02:17 |
| npm | accli -p `pgrep pulseaudio` -I is only one w/ GRP::pulse so i assume only pulseaudio needs that setting | 02:18 |
| npm | but that's different than "GRP::pulse-access" | 02:20 |
| npm | maybe that's for apps that need to be able to reconfig pulseaudio routing, etc | 02:20 |
| * javispedro curses, no maps for me today | 02:20 | |
| mgedmin | ok, I've got fbreader binaries, but no debds | 02:23 |
| mgedmin | s/debds/debs | 02:23 |
| mgedmin | how do I build debs? where's fiferboy when you need him? | 02:23 |
| npm | qtcreator? | 02:24 |
| mgedmin | scratchbox | 02:24 |
| npm | clueless question. so what am i missing out on using qtcreator. it works for me. | 02:24 |
| mgedmin | qtcreator is awesome | 02:25 |
| npm | using the Harmattan QtSDK 1.1.2 | 02:25 |
| npm | ok, so if i'm all good w/ qtcreator then i'm not missing out on anything other than haxor boasting :-) (actually i use emacs -- but qtcreator is smart enough to know when i edited files externally) | 02:26 |
| mgedmin | thing is, when you've got a project with an existing make-based build system, how do you feed it to qt creator? | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, ok | 02:27 |
| mgedmin | I assumed scratchbox would be simpler, since fiferboy already succeeded building fbreader in scratchbox | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | lightning killed a modemrouter of a customer, it's always the same: deaf on the 600R-line | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wonder why those modemrouters (and generally modems) can't have proper OVP | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | to ge back on topic: It's kinda nasty on fremantle ICD doesn't realize the WLAN is no working connection to internet. So it sits there on this fsckdup WLAN for hours while GPRS would work just fine | 02:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | I gather that'S all the same on harmattan, though not yet tested. Should finally get fixed | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not interested in the connection, I'm interested in the working route to */0 | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | I.E. forget the WLAN when it doesn't ping | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | might become an app | 02:33 |
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| mgedmin | um, why is qt creator trying to use ccache? | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | especially with this "connect to all open WLANs" option/app the chance to frequently pick zombies is real. So it shouldn't pick "open WLAN" but "working internet connection WLAN" | 02:36 |
| MohammadAG | mgedmin, http://wiki.maemo.org/mohammad7410:Packaging | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: still no change in status? | 02:38 |
| mgedmin | MohammadAG, "There is currently no text in this page" | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | mgedmin, sec | 02:38 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, nope, 16 days | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-( | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | pondering to send you mine :-D | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | I might be thru with it in a few days | 02:39 |
| MohammadAG | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Mohammad7410/Packaging mgedmin | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | otoh I'm really worried about every decent devel now fighting uphill for harmattan, while fremantle dies a sudden death | 02:40 |
| MohammadAG | I'm not sure if it makes sense, it's just how I understand packaging | 02:41 |
| mgedmin | DocScrutinizer, don't worry, it won't be sudden | 02:41 |
| mgedmin | it'll be slow and lingering | 02:41 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, heh, I emailed ddp.program the other day, they gave me a standard answer | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, just deprivation of nourishing is sudden | 02:41 |
| MohammadAG | nah, not leaving the N900 | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | it's too awesome | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | I mean, if egoshin upgrades our N900s to 1GB RAM and 1GHz of storage, I'll be happy | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | oh wait | 02:42 |
| MohammadAG | abill_uk, not egoshin, sorry | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | even I got completely distracted from jonwil and his awesome work for fremantle, and his SMSCB efforts | 02:43 |
| mgedmin | MohammadAG, thing is, fbreader consists of maybe five debian packages and has its own crazy/insane build system for them... | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | blueled might be capable to actually do it :-) | 02:43 |
| mgedmin | Maemo 5 on the n950 hardware would be awesome... | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | stfu there can only be one engineer | 02:43 |
| MohammadAG | and he's abill_uk | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | I mean, he had the first working maemo phone ever | 02:44 |
| * mgedmin realizes that having ccache is actually a Good Idea and apt-get installs it | 02:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, I can't help it, I must post the link, it's just TOO AWESOME! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=551420#post551420 | 02:45 |
| mgedmin | oookay, gcc used by Madde uses a different ELF/.o format and can't talk to gcc I've got in scratchbox HARMATTAN_ARMEL target | 02:48 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, you're just jealous of abill_uk, admit it | 02:48 |
| mgedmin | I think I saw instructions for setting up a scratchbox backend in qt creator somewhere... | 02:49 |
| * mgedmin gives up and goes to sleep | 02:49 | |
| DocScrutinizer | sure, he has so many fans, and I'm just the ranting fart everybody loves to hate :-D | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | how could anybody not be jealous of un_abill | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw has his recent ban expired on tmo? | 02:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | duh, wasn't there a whole class-c net I banned on #maemo to stop pupnik | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, any status updates on hen950 | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | holy, umm, shit | 02:53 |
| MohammadAG | that is awesome | 02:53 |
| javispedro | yes, abill_uk has been rambling on some thread about how the only future of maemo.org is to hit any Nokia employee with a shovel for an undeterminated amount of hours to suck the source code out of him | 02:54 |
| javispedro | *undetermined, etc. | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: nope - update=aegis sucks donkey balls | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: have you tried again with kernel? | 02:56 |
| javispedro | nope | 02:56 |
| javispedro | sts keeps probably knows | 02:56 |
| MohammadAG | I'm actually surprised no Nokia employee risked his job and his future employment chances to leak source code | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | err yup | 02:56 |
| SpeedEvil | s/Nok/ex-Nok/ | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | even more, yes | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | though with aegis all the sourcecode might turn out to be completely useless in the end | 02:57 |
| javispedro | we have all of aegis sourcecode | 02:57 |
| MohammadAG | not if you get the keys | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, Nokia's rootcert | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | that'd be a read revelation | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | real* | 02:58 |
| TSCHAKeee | I'm ultimately curious | 02:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | if it will be possible to reflash the N9 with a different OS? | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I gues that one is on a massive gold CD under Elop's cushion | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | TSCHAKeee: Stskeeps tries to do that | 02:59 |
| TSCHAKeee | he's already got an N9? | 03:00 |
| TSCHAKeee | I mean, I know he's at the top of every list, but... ;) | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | if Nokia went really nasty and all the way to dark side, they have locked down access to modem by crypto | 03:00 |
| MohammadAG | yes, it will | 03:00 |
| MohammadAG | question is, will it be possible to use commercial shit on that | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | definitely not | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it's not even clear you could reflash with another OS. Nokia can change xloader/NOLO any time | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | TSCHAKeee: I meant Stskeeps tries to flash meegoCE to N950 right atm | 03:02 |
| TSCHAKeee | docScrutinizer: oh, yeah. I know. :) | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: so if N9 has a different rootcert than N950, and there are no publicly available NOLO versions that allow to boot an unsigned kernel, the jury is still out on N9 with alien OS | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | TSCHAKeee: (I mean, I know he's at the top of every list) I'm not sure about that. Seems to me Nokia's support for meego-arm team significantly decayed recently | 03:07 |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.4shared.com/get/Dd5CVnMw/Nokia_N900_RX-51_Service_Manua.html | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | Page 17 | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | It's removable | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ifnote | 03:15 |
| SpeedEvil | ignroe | 03:16 |
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| Termana | morning | 03:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Moaning | 04:00 |
| npm | fyi, regarding whatever conversation from earlier.. GRP::pulse-access seems to make video playback w/o pausing | 04:20 |
| npm | alongside GRP::video | 04:21 |
| npm | now off to dinner | 04:21 |
| rm_you | npm: wait what?! | 04:23 |
| rm_you | wait why does mplayer depend on gtk and hildon libs | 04:26 |
| npm | must test more but videos that were all pausy before when full screen all refreshy (big buck bunny 480) now playback smooth | 04:27 |
| rm_you | i thought it opened straight to the FB | 04:27 |
| rm_you | npm: so what did you change? i want to try | 04:27 |
| npm | GRP::pulse-access | 04:27 |
| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_0_6_armel.deb | 04:29 |
| npm | it had to remove code to prevent display from going to sleep but it works like this sortof | 04:29 |
| npm | back later ... dinner | 04:30 |
| rm_you | npm: yeah i have that :P thought you meant a change to the default media player setup or something | 04:32 |
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| antman8969 | anyone know of an ifdef for harmattan? | 04:55 |
| antman8969 | found contains(MEEGO_EDITION,harmattan): for the pro file, but it doesn't seem to be owrking... | 04:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The lack of rounding on the N950 keys is frustrating. | 05:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Feels more squishy than the N900 keyboard, too. | 05:31 |
| rm_you | yes | 05:31 |
| TSCHAKeee | doesn't bother me | 05:36 |
| * TSCHAKeee is actually deliberately not using the keyboard | 05:37 | |
| antman8969 | barely use it, the onscreen is pretty good imo | 05:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's one of the better ones | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: yup | 05:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually somewhat reminds me of the eten Glofiish M800 kbd, no doubt this been the worst handheld kbd I ever had to put my fingertips on | 05:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the non-sticky Fn-key frequently makes me typo all the "blue" symbols | 05:47 |
| antman8969 | i actually hate the fn / ctrl keys | 05:47 |
| antman8969 | I typed my password in plain text last week here because my / was turned into a @ | 05:47 |
| antman8969 | had to go an change them all.... | 05:47 |
| rm_you | the vkbd is gross >_> | 05:59 |
| rm_you | the keyboard is better but | 05:59 |
| rm_you | :/ | 05:59 |
| GAN900 | It's not too terrible. | 06:20 |
| GAN900 | But not great | 06:20 |
| GAN900 | I wont ever touch-type 60 wpm while looking at something else like I can on my N900. | 06:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 06:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | k, time for brinner | 06:24 |
| hiemanshu | GAN900: I assume no swipe? | 06:30 |
| hiemanshu | swype* | 06:30 |
| GAN900 | Not tried it. | 06:33 |
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| antman8969 | has anyone been able to build for harmattan on OBS? | 06:50 |
| antman8969 | the repo doesn't seem to show up after being selected | 06:51 |
| rm_you | i need to figure out how to build packages again, haven't done this in a while | 06:51 |
| rm_you | i'm missing about a billion dependencies | 06:51 |
| rm_you | this is a nightmare... | 06:52 |
| rm_you | dpkg-buildpackage -> you're missing these deps -> apt-get source depnames -> dpkg-buildpackage -> you | 06:52 |
| rm_you | *you're missing more deps | 06:52 |
| rm_you | rinse and repeat about 20 times | 06:52 |
| rm_you | i'm giving up for now | 06:52 |
| antman8969 | are you doing anything special? | 06:52 |
| rm_you | mplayer <_< | 06:53 |
| rm_you | and libx264 | 06:53 |
| antman8969 | and you're building in scratchbox? | 06:53 |
| rm_you | getting the dep sources from ubuntu natty | 06:53 |
| rm_you | yes | 06:53 |
| antman8969 | lol thats gona be a pain | 06:53 |
| rm_you | not sure where else to get the sources from and actually have debian build rules | 06:53 |
| rm_you | lol yes | 06:53 |
| antman8969 | you're just going and downloading them all one by one? | 06:53 |
| rm_you | basically | 06:53 |
| rm_you | apt-source doesn't exist | 06:54 |
| rm_you | AFAICT | 06:54 |
| antman8969 | yea that sux | 06:54 |
| rm_you | i could try to build THAT | 06:54 |
| rm_you | >_>> | 06:54 |
| rm_you | srsly there is NOTHING in the base repos | 06:54 |
| rm_you | not even SVN or GIT | 06:54 |
| rm_you | this is so ridiculous | 06:54 |
| rm_you | seriously though, NEED a repo to put libs in | 06:57 |
| rm_you | so everyone doesn't have to compile every lib | 06:57 |
| antman8969 | check out obs | 07:01 |
| antman8969 | its' better than nothing | 07:01 |
| rm_you | how do i set that up | 07:01 |
| rm_you | all i saw guides for were scratchbox and QtCreator | 07:01 |
| rm_you | i played with OBS when i was working on Mer, but that was a while ago | 07:02 |
| rm_you | wasn't aware Harmattan was set up for OBS | 07:02 |
| antman8969 | lol its not... | 07:02 |
| rm_you | i thought scratchbox was its main env | 07:02 |
| antman8969 | well you can build in scratchbox, but when you start using things besides QT you run into your dep problem | 07:02 |
| antman8969 | OBS is trying to be like Maemo extras, if you're familiar with that | 07:02 |
| antman8969 | but the harmattan target isn't working afaik | 07:03 |
| antman8969 | but your problem isn't harmattan related is it, just general libs | 07:03 |
| rm_you | well yes | 07:03 |
| rm_you | but ... general libs for hamattan | 07:03 |
| rm_you | so if i can't build the libs... | 07:03 |
| rm_you | i can't use lins from Fremantle, can I? | 07:04 |
| rm_you | s/lins/libs/ | 07:04 |
| infobot | rm_you meant: i can't use libs from Fremantle, can I? | 07:04 |
| antman8969 | lol | 07:04 |
| antman8969 | some would work yea | 07:05 |
| antman8969 | there was a compatible lib page somewhere but I lost it | 07:05 |
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| antman8969 | a lot of them would probably work | 07:05 |
| rm_you | ah | 07:05 |
| rm_you | hrmrm | 07:05 |
| antman8969 | but you're frustration isn't unjustified, there isn't much direction right now imo | 07:05 |
| antman8969 | kinda every man for himself | 07:05 |
| rm_you | yeah | 07:06 |
| rm_you | i'm wondering if i can be helpful by, instead of actually coding and building packages, actually just try to generate some infrastructure | 07:06 |
| rm_you | like | 07:06 |
| rm_you | http://ageofikon.com/prh/ | 07:06 |
| antman8969 | thats neat | 07:07 |
| antman8969 | should be usefull | 07:07 |
| antman8969 | but you should get an obs account, because it's clearly the future | 07:08 |
| rm_you | ok | 07:08 |
| rm_you | where do i do that | 07:08 |
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| antman8969 | here lol, in the #meego channel if you have an account on meego.com | 07:08 |
| antman8969 | lbs is one person, xfade is another | 07:08 |
| antman8969 | msg them | 07:08 |
| rm_you | ah k | 07:08 |
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| rm_you | err, lbs or lbt? | 07:09 |
| antman8969 | i think lbt, but googleing meego obs tells you the exact one in a wiki.meego page | 07:09 |
| antman8969 | sry yea lbt | 07:10 |
| rm_you | david greaves? | 07:10 |
| antman8969 | lol wouldn't know the real name, but it sounds right | 07:10 |
| rm_you | lol | 07:10 |
| rm_you | hung out with him a lot at conferences and stuff | 07:10 |
| rm_you | he managed toe Mer OBS too | 07:10 |
| rm_you | *the | 07:11 |
| antman8969 | in person? | 07:14 |
| GAN900 | Anybody gotten the vkb stuck in numerals yet? | 07:15 |
| GAN900 | antman8969, yes. | 07:16 |
| npm | antman8969: re ifdef for harmattan, see http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=26924&postcount=2 | 07:29 |
| npm | rm_you: I'm back ... doing accli -p `pgrep /usr/bin/video-suite` -I shows it already has all the needed aegis permissions. .. the new version of qmltube port i uploaded had those changes, plus other fixes (i haven't updated the version number) | 07:30 |
| npm | anybody know what SRC::com.nokia.maemo and AID::com.nokia.maemo.video-suite. do" | 07:31 |
| npm | ? | 07:31 |
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| antman8969 | npm I tried it but It would't work using creator with the Meego 1.2 Harmattan target | 07:39 |
| antman8969 | and gan900 you want a number only vkb? | 07:39 |
| GAN900 | No, I encountered a bug. | 07:39 |
| GAN900 | Couldn't get back to the letters in SMS. | 07:40 |
| antman8969 | oooh, in that case, no lol | 07:40 |
| antman8969 | on a a slightly unrelated note, My smileys dont work... | 07:40 |
| antman8969 | npm I ended up using unix:!symbian:!maemo: in the pro file instead | 07:41 |
| antman8969 | but that doesn't let me distinguish harmattan from meego so it's not a great solution... | 07:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: vkbd locked to numeric input for textfields with according attributes, e.g. number for SMS addressee | 08:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's no bug, it's a feature (maybe not being able to set focus elsewhere might be a bug) | 08:01 |
| GAN900 | Was on the text input field. | 08:01 |
| GAN900 | While I was typing out a text, went to add an apostrophe and couldn't get back to the alphas. | 08:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | ahaaa, that'S different then | 08:02 |
| rm_you | lol | 08:14 |
| rm_you | what happens to me is that the text box i'm typing into for messages disappears | 08:14 |
| rm_you | apostrophe is just... a key? why would you even need to hit function or anything | 08:14 |
| npm | antman8969 i got my solution to work ... but it won't be able to automatically distinguish harmattan from a system that has /../qmsystem2/qmkeys.h installed | 08:18 |
| npm | given funky exists($$QMAKE_INCDIR_QT"/../qmsystem2/qmkeys.h"):!contains(MEEGO_EDITION,harmattan): { | 08:18 |
| npm | suggested by http://wiki.meego.com/index.php?title=Porting_Fremantle_Applications_to_Harmattan&oldid=44545#Harmattan_scope | 08:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | GAN900: no, can't duplicate that | 08:21 |
| GAN900 | rm_you, vkb | 08:22 |
| rm_you | why would you use the vkbd >_> | 08:22 |
| GAN900 | DocScrutinizer, yeah, bet it's a race condition. | 08:22 |
| rm_you | i've been trying to figure out how to uninstall/disable it | 08:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I notice tactile feedback sometimes gets lost | 08:22 |
| GAN900 | rm_you, testing and familiarization. | 08:22 |
| GAN900 | Yeah | 08:22 |
| GAN900 | That almost seems like a Components/MTF issue. | 08:23 |
| rm_you | tactile feedback? | 08:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | also noticed suddenly my number of chars per SMS was down to 50 or sth | 08:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | rm_you: vibra kick | 08:23 |
| rm_you | hrm | 08:25 |
| rm_you | well bedtime | 08:25 |
| rm_you | giving up on compiling these 100 dependencies for mplayer | 08:25 |
| rm_you | maybe tomorrow i can get OBS access and it'll be easier? :/ dunno | 08:26 |
| npm | interesting, perhaps by including QtMobility, you also get Q_WS_MAEMO_5 and 6 defined .. qt-mobility-opensource-src-1.2.0/common.pri:135: maemo6:DEFINES+= Q_WS_MAEMO_6 | 08:26 |
| npm | rm_you: i'm not sure mplayer will help | 08:26 |
| rm_you | yeah you said that earlier | 08:27 |
| rm_you | or, javispedro did | 08:27 |
| rm_you | but i still want to try | 08:27 |
| npm | however, if you get ffmpeg compiled let me know | 08:27 |
| rm_you | i mean | 08:27 |
| rm_you | why would it be different than n900? | 08:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly I wonder how the heck the cracks at Nokia are building things, without headdesking all the time | 08:27 |
| rm_you | N900 mplayer played stuff way better than builtin, and suffered from the same issues | 08:27 |
| rm_you | didn't it? | 08:27 |
| rm_you | or was there not a video DSP? | 08:28 |
| npm | the concern re mplayer is that there are DSP-based coprocessors that are used to accelerate video decode | 08:28 |
| rm_you | i mean, it is just *faster* | 08:28 |
| rm_you | yes | 08:28 |
| npm | and that they would not be invoked | 08:28 |
| rm_you | but it was faster on N900 | 08:28 |
| rm_you | and suffered the same drawback | 08:28 |
| npm | depends on the size. | 08:28 |
| rm_you | despite not having the DSP it still was faster :/ | 08:28 |
| npm | the n900 has less pixels to push to the screen? compared to the processor increase?? | 08:28 |
| rm_you | it's the same res? | 08:29 |
| rm_you | AFAIK | 08:29 |
| npm | is it/ | 08:29 |
| npm | ? | 08:29 |
| rm_you | i thought so? | 08:29 |
| rm_you | or | 08:29 |
| rm_you | ah no it added 48h | 08:29 |
| npm | no | 08:30 |
| ieatlint | DocScrutinizer: they are headdesking all the time | 08:30 |
| npm | dimensions: 854x480 pixels (225x127 millimeters) | 08:30 |
| ieatlint | nokia has the worst fucking build environments i've ever seen.. the toolchains for the various things are more fragmented than android is | 08:30 |
| rm_you | ah | 08:30 |
| npm | per env DISPLAY=:0.0 xpdyinfo | 08:30 |
| rm_you | old was 800x480? | 08:30 |
| rm_you | soooo | 08:30 |
| rm_you | it barely added any | 08:31 |
| npm | and might i say: it is way fing cool to be able to run xdpyinfo on my phone | 08:31 |
| rm_you | well i gotta go to bed | 08:31 |
| rm_you | but | 08:31 |
| rm_you | one thing i have learned is, don't draw conclusions before you TRY | 08:31 |
| npm | i'm going to bow down to this thing like it's the monolith in 2001 | 08:31 |
| rm_you | this stuff is madness | 08:31 |
| rm_you | never goes like you'd expect | 08:31 |
| rm_you | so when i *see* mplayer being slower, i'll believe it | 08:32 |
| npm | true. bypassing entire gstreamer pipeline and doing it in mplayer may be faster in some cases | 08:32 |
| rm_you | i'm hoping. | 08:32 |
| rm_you | it's lagging on videos that played fine on n900 | 08:32 |
| rm_you | in mplayer | 08:32 |
| npm | perhaps for audio | 08:32 |
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| rm_you | (none of my videos played right in built-in) | 08:32 |
| * rm_you sleeps | 08:32 | |
| npm | gnight | 08:33 |
| npm | 384000/409920 ... aka 7% more pixels to push | 08:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so, is harmattan back to plain alsa now? or how is play-sound called this week, if we mustn't use aplay? | 08:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't get me wrong, not missing play-sound really, it was so retarded and limited in configurability (WTF does spellcheck blame this word?)... But honestly, it was really nice to get some advice how to use audio, from cmdline | 08:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~spell configurability | 08:54 |
| infobot | possible spellings for configurability: configurable integrability conductibility navigability reconfigurable convertibility maneuverability conferable configured | 08:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | :shrug: | 08:55 |
| * RST38h moos at Doc | 08:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer | moo RST38h | 08:56 |
| RST38h | Why do we have a separate harmattan channel anyway? Feels weird | 08:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | *YAWN* still way too little storage to get some 50MB manpages :-S | 08:57 |
| RST38h | Will it be absorbed into #maemo once N9 hits the market? | 08:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | possibly | 08:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's the time when I start #fremantle ;-) | 08:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, it's a *user device*, right? Nah wait, the backside clearly says "DEVELOPER DEVICE" | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I guess the ~8GB aren't exactly needed for mp3, a few manpages should fit nicely | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~ $ pa<tabtab> | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | package-manager-ui pager parse-endurance-measurements passwd | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | COUGH, where's the pulseaudio stuff? | 09:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL [-fixed-orientation 0|90|180|270] Start application in fixed orientation. This overrides keyboard state, as well as a device profile | 09:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw one of the many quite OT parameters of package-manager-ui | 09:08 |
| ieatlint | it has the pulseaudio daemon, it may just not have the tools installed | 09:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm, pnatd is phonet-at now | 09:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | esd *couhg* | 09:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | flash_eater EEEEEK! :-o | 09:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | I strongly discourage to test this command | 09:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, mat seems to be identical with phonet-at | 09:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | hah memload should get renamed memhog | 09:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | objcopy *cough*, wonder what aegis will thing about that | 09:55 |
| alterego | Has anyone used the maps manager successfully? | 10:08 |
| ieatlint | the gui doesn't work, there are instructions on the wiki on how to unpack the maps | 10:15 |
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| alterego | Ah, okay. Manual it is then .. | 10:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | ls -l /usr/share/meegotouch/targets/N* | 10:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~syspart | 10:34 |
| alterego | Going to a wedding today, should be a good N950 photo opportunity :) | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | any idea bout /syspart? | 10:35 |
| wazd | alterego: I thought wedding would be a good photo opportunity for D7000 lately :D | 10:36 |
| alterego | wazd: alright if you've got one, personally I would have prefered to take the N8, but my gf has stolen it :/ | 10:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ugh cgroup | 10:37 |
| Tronic | at a funeral right now | 10:37 |
| Tronic | perfect n950 ircing oppurtunity | 10:37 |
| wazd | Tronic: :( :) | 10:38 |
| Tronic | during the superstitious parts only, ofc. | 10:38 |
| alterego | Yeah, I'm not in to the cloud fairy parts either .. | 10:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# aplay -L | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | Segmentation fault (core dumped) | 11:00 |
| tomma | does anyone know how to use ShareUi from dbus? what kind of .aegis it requires? | 11:02 |
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| dm8tbr | good moaning | 11:07 |
| achipa | tomma: the MTF one has TrackerReadAccess, TrackerWriteAccess, tracker::tracker-miner-fs-access, GRP::metadata-users, GRP::video, mms-manager::MmsProtectedReadAccess | 11:10 |
| achipa | tomma: don't have dbus at hand | 11:10 |
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| tomma | i found those too... but for some reason, when i launch it from dbus it just hangs | 11:11 |
| tomma | cant really tell if this is caused by aegis or what | 11:11 |
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| lbt | hey rm_you o/ | 11:29 |
| hiemanshu | alterego: the N950 camera is awesome! | 11:46 |
| npm | achipa: what exactly does GRP::pulse-access do? | 11:46 |
| achipa | gives you audio access ? no idea, don't have docs at hand | 11:48 |
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| npm | In http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1_0_6_armel.deb it seems to enable video playback w/ less pausing | 11:50 |
| npm | actually many questions could be answerd if i saw the sourcecode for say, the things that generate results of "accli -p `pgrep /usr/bin/camera-ui` -I" | 11:51 |
| npm | accli -p `pgrep /usr/bin/video-suite` -I | 11:52 |
| npm | and accli -p `pgrep /usr/bin/qmafw-dbus-wrapper` -I | 11:52 |
| npm | which is also a good place to copy names needed for your own <packagename>.aegis | 11:53 |
| npm | that's how i figured out that GRP::video was all that was standing between me and video playback | 11:54 |
| npm | ok back to doing battle w/ MeeGo::QmDisplayState(qparent) | 11:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | npm: | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | RM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# grep pulse-acc /etc/group | 12:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | pulse-access:x:670:user,root | 12:44 |
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| MohammadAG | is Harmattan OBS online? | 13:23 |
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| achipa | npm: going through the SDK release notes would have probably been a shorter path... it even has an example aegis manifest for video/camera apps | 14:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | omg THAT was tedious - checked and played with *all* the controls of all three cards in alsamixer | 14:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | created some funny humming sounds, but no success with FMRX | 14:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | prettey please could somebody share a bit of docu about codec hardware, how it's connected, and what's the I2S_MODE_CONFIG of wl1273 supposed to get set to? | 14:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | a short while I thought radio actually works and has clicks and plops when I (un)mate the antenna which happens to be headphones. Then I realized that's just the headset mic I looped back to speaker | 14:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if somebody finds a pointer to a wl1273/1271 datasheet that for sure was much appreciated :-D | 14:39 |
| dm8tbr | that's TI NDA AFAICT | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | while being TI there's hope we might find some maybe even commented sourcecode for it | 14:46 |
| MohammadAG | DocScrutinizer, asked jacekowski? | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | not yet | 14:46 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer: thanks for the fmrx "search" | 17:40 |
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| infobot | lardman: please check http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-07-22.log.html#t2011-07-22T18:42:19, cheers DocScr | 17:54 |
| infobot | lardman: please check http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/%23harmattan.2011-07-22.log.html#t2011-07-22T18:42:19, cheers DocScr | 17:54 |
| lardman | DocScrutinizer: thanks for the links | 17:55 |
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| lardman | I've been looking at Qt Quick, but for some reason can't open qml files in Qt Creator. Is this usual? | 17:56 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: If you're about, I was also looking at the meego-camera app, and wondering how to stick mBarcode decoding in there. I've no clue tbh, and can't see how wrapping the decoder as a qml component is going to do much | 17:57 |
| lardman | I can't even work out what format an image buffer could be passed across in. I guess an Image, but no sign of one being output in the qml stuff afaict | 17:57 |
| lardman | seems to me I'd need to stick to the lower level C++ stuff | 17:57 |
| javispedro | doing image stuff on js would be pain =) | 17:58 |
| lardman | I'm not seeing much appeal in the whole qml thing atm, no gui designer, and the recommendation is to simply wrap my existing components in a qml wrapper | 17:59 |
| javispedro | yeah | 17:59 |
| javispedro | I see qml mostly as glue | 17:59 |
| javispedro | the kind of stuff that you used to do on python, etc. | 17:59 |
| lardman | I just came into work thinking that I needed an SDK update as I was missing a gui designer, but everything seems to be installed | 18:00 |
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| lardman | well I'm glad it's not just me anyway :) | 18:01 |
| lardman | javispedro: do you know where I can download qml viewer | 18:04 |
| javispedro | nope, it came with qt here | 18:05 |
| lardman | hmm, strange | 18:05 |
| lardman | perhaps I need to install the qt quick for symbian stuff | 18:06 |
| lardman | ah well | 18:07 |
| lardman | javispedro: thanks | 18:07 |
| * lardman heads home | 18:07 | |
| lardman | cu on Monday | 18:07 |
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| javispedro | cya | 18:07 |
| Wirta | has anyone been able to figure out how to fix the re-orientation bug in landscape homescreen? | 18:16 |
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| crevetor | lardman|home: hi | 19:25 |
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| hiemanshu | is there a setting or something special to make the phone use 3G when no wi-fi is available? | 21:14 |
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| achipa | hiemanshu: just enable "use automatically" in the 3G networks' settings | 21:28 |
| hiemanshu | achipa: I cant find it, there is 'Allow background connections' which is enabled | 21:29 |
| achipa | Settings->Internet->Edit->[the name of the network you want to automatically connect to]->use automatically | 21:30 |
| hiemanshu | achipa: ah, found it | 21:31 |
| hiemanshu | thanks | 21:31 |
| achipa | yw | 21:31 |
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| antman8969 | soo.... I've built fennec for harmattan... but aegis won't let me install it........ | 22:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, shoplifters. | 22:11 |
| * TSCHAKeee wonders why everybody is soooo shocked that they can't manually shove stuff on the phone | 22:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | So, anybody know if there's a plugin interface for sticking things on the lock screen? | 22:11 |
| * lcuk wonders how come people have problems putting stuff on the phone | 22:11 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Aegis. | 22:12 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, installed 4/4 .debs tried so far | 22:12 |
| lcuk | only prevented from manually updating a binary | 22:12 |
| TSCHAKeee | and that's probably what everybody is trying to do, oh look, it built, i'll just ssh it over | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I think Texrat just wrote a blog post about WFMing. | 22:12 |
| rm_you | lbt: hey | 22:13 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, link! | 22:13 |
| rm_you | lbt: i was asking you about OBS | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tabulacrypticum.wordpress.com/2011/07/12/works-for-me/ | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | I need a camera icon on the lock screen. | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Takes too damn long to get the camera up. | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guy rand away while I was fudging around with my stupid phone. | 22:13 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, agreed actually | 22:17 |
| lcuk | the camera button gave easy media access | 22:18 |
| epage | GeneralAntilles: the quick launch buttons (including camera) are available from the lock screen | 22:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Some random gesture - like a 4 finger drag from top-bottom or bottom-top on lock to activate cam woul be good | 22:19 |
| rm_you | camera on mine "times out" and tries to crash and i have to say "no don't crash" and eventually it loads the camera | 22:19 |
| rm_you | takes a looong time | 22:20 |
| antman8969 | does aegis have a problem decompressing things? I'm not sure why this won't install.... | 22:25 |
| rm_you | sooo, someone tell me if they think this is a good idea and/or if they would use it | 22:26 |
| rm_you | i might set up a repository that allows users to upload debs to it (and we say "please upload any libraries you compile), and have a simple approval system that I can add a few trusted people to... and then we could actually have one repository that could contain all the necessary libs to actually compile things | 22:27 |
| rm_you | because right now i'm pretty sure i'm the 100th person to compile some of these libs | 22:27 |
| antman8969 | well yes, but the obs! | 22:28 |
| frals | uh | 22:28 |
| frals | where is the documentation to get qt sdk setup with n950 on windows? | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | documentation? just grab the latest Qt SDK | 22:29 |
| antman8969 | idk the windows specific nature of you problem.... | 22:29 |
| frals | i want usbnetworking | 22:29 |
| frals | ;( | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | just grab the latest Qt SDK | 22:29 |
| frals | and i recall seeing a link to drivers or similar on some getting started crap | 22:29 |
| MohammadAG | don't make me say that again | 22:30 |
| frals | i have the latest qt sdk already :p | 22:30 |
| MohammadAG | then you made me say it twice for no reason? fk u | 22:31 |
| MohammadAG | :P | 22:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | epage, does it require another swipe? | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | epage, yeah, way too fiddly with adrenaline going. | 22:34 |
| epage | Drag bottom to an inch or two up and hold | 22:34 |
| epage | Also it doesn't work with everything like event view and keyboard | 22:35 |
| rm_you | antman8969: the OBS yes, but sometimes these things take effort to recompile | 22:36 |
| MohammadAG | I'll ask again, is OBS up? | 22:37 |
| MohammadAG | cause otherwise I want to make a repo with shit missing from the SDK | 22:37 |
| rm_you | MohammadAG: yeah, so thats what i want to do too -- want to work together? | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | I can give you access if I make it an outside repo | 22:38 |
| MohammadAG | git, svn, x11-utils (xprop and friends) | 22:39 |
| rm_you | yeah | 22:39 |
| antman8969 | yes obs is up! | 22:39 |
| antman8969 | weather i'ts as functional as you want it to be... | 22:39 |
| rm_you | i was going to make a web interface to upload packages and a quick approval interface for admins | 22:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | epage, I need something I can just tap on. | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | was aiming for an ftp based solution | 22:39 |
| rm_you | ok | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | or scp | 22:39 |
| rm_you | that works too | 22:39 |
| rm_you | ftp or scp to one place | 22:39 |
| MohammadAG | ala dput | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Otherwise they tend to freak out when you put a camera in their face for too long. | 22:40 |
| epage | Yeah I like the camera cover choice | 22:40 |
| antman8969 | what worries me about that rm_you is that eventually OBS will be up, and then people will inevitably migrate to it and redo all their library building | 22:40 |
| rm_you | and can still have an approval interface | 22:40 |
| epage | (on n900) | 22:40 |
| rm_you | antman8969: does OBS have a central libs thing? right now it seems like OBS is setting up PPAs | 22:40 |
| rm_you | antman8969: i'm under the impression that even WITH obs, i can't utilize all the packages that everyone else already ported and compiled | 22:40 |
| antman8969 | thats pretty much what it's doing, aside from the core meego repo that you can build against | 22:41 |
| rm_you | antman8969: am i wrong? | 22:41 |
| antman8969 | ooh yea you are lol | 22:41 |
| antman8969 | well | 22:41 |
| antman8969 | the whole idea is | 22:41 |
| antman8969 | you build against other people's ppas | 22:41 |
| antman8969 | so if we both were on obs, and you made liboauth, I could use your liboauth | 22:41 |
| antman8969 | and you could build liboauth by using core Meego's libcurl and ssl and stuff | 22:41 |
| rm_you | ah ok | 22:41 |
| MohammadAG | how do I know you made liboauth0 through terminal | 22:41 |
| rm_you | MohammadAG: that | 22:41 |
| rm_you | antman8969: that ^^^ | 22:42 |
| antman8969 | osc is the application I think | 22:42 |
| antman8969 | theres a search feature | 22:42 |
| rm_you | does it automatically include everyone's PPA? | 22:42 |
| antman8969 | it's on the wiki somewhere | 22:42 |
| antman8969 | and theres always the web interface too | 22:42 |
| rm_you | i'd just make a cron script to check what PPAs exist and automatically add them all | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG | I don't want a web interface | 22:42 |
| rm_you | i guess | 22:42 |
| antman8969 | lol hardcore huh.. | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG | I want something similar to apt-get install | 22:42 |
| rm_you | this ^^^ | 22:42 |
| antman8969 | well yea, you could just use a script to search the repo.meego.com or w/e it is | 22:42 |
| antman8969 | yea... | 22:42 |
| MohammadAG | if it works, it's there, if not, I package it and ship it to something like -devel | 22:43 |
| antman8969 | its a pretty different model | 22:43 |
| antman8969 | and I havn't gotten it to make debs yet either | 22:43 |
| antman8969 | BUT | 22:43 |
| antman8969 | the point is, soon it will, and to fragment the devs between a private repo and the intended one | 22:43 |
| antman8969 | seems like a deterrant | 22:43 |
| antman8969 | not to mention | 22:43 |
| antman8969 | the n9 will never be our n900 | 22:44 |
| MohammadAG | I dislike the concept of private repos | 22:44 |
| antman8969 | i mispoke, I meant a repo that we set up | 22:44 |
| antman8969 | as opposed to the standard meego obs | 22:44 |
| antman8969 | it's lame in some ways | 22:45 |
| antman8969 | but I guess I don't consider this "my phone" really, just a device I use to test end user content | 22:45 |
| antman8969 | I can't bring it with me and treat it like the n900 | 22:45 |
| antman8969 | because I'm not allowed to do anything because of aegis... | 22:46 |
| rm_you | hrm | 22:54 |
| rm_you | well, can I get into OBS? | 22:54 |
| antman8969 | lol never got a hold of lbt? | 22:58 |
| antman8969 | I actually just tried to talk to him in #meego but no answer | 22:58 |
| rm_you | yeah | 22:59 |
| rm_you | i left a message for X-Fade but he never responded either | 22:59 |
| antman8969 | maybe they did ? go to pub.meego.com and try to login with your meego.com password | 23:00 |
| antman8969 | thats not te url lol sry, let me get it | 23:00 |
| antman8969 | https://build.pub.meego.com/ | 23:00 |
| rm_you | nope | 23:01 |
| antman8969 | lame | 23:01 |
| antman8969 | but yea I understand your frustration, without any library source all you can make is plain qt apps | 23:02 |
| rm_you | yes, very frustrating | 23:02 |
| antman8969 | I would actually just develop for maemo in the mean time honestly | 23:02 |
| antman8969 | I have a client that uses libouath and it's in extras for maemo so I was able to make it there | 23:03 |
| rm_you | >_> | 23:03 |
| antman8969 | now I'm just waiting to port it | 23:03 |
| rm_you | the apps i want are IN maemo | 23:03 |
| rm_you | i need to port them to harmattan | 23:03 |
| antman8969 | haha | 23:03 |
| rm_you | that's the POINT | 23:03 |
| rm_you | lol | 23:03 |
| Clint | \o/ | 23:03 |
| antman8969 | alright then, yea just twiddle your thumbs a little longer | 23:03 |
| rm_you | T_T | 23:03 |
| antman8969 | or make simple qt web apps that ppl want / need ? | 23:03 |
| antman8969 | who knows | 23:03 |
| antman8969 | anything productive | 23:03 |
| rm_you | lol | 23:05 |
| rm_you | well | 23:05 |
| rm_you | the Qt app i want to make requires backend libs | 23:05 |
| rm_you | so i'm really about to just give up for a while | 23:05 |
| rm_you | lbt: here maybe | 23:06 |
| lbt | or here | 23:06 |
| rm_you | yeah | 23:06 |
| rm_you | so | 23:06 |
| rm_you | OBS? :) | 23:06 |
| lbt | meego.com account | 23:06 |
| lbt | done | 23:07 |
| rm_you | thx | 23:07 |
| lbt | did you read up on Surrounds? | 23:07 |
| lbt | http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Task_Forces/MeeGo_Surrounds_and_Extras | 23:07 |
| lbt | trying to provide a framework that gives us something a little better than Extras | 23:08 |
| rm_you | yeah | 23:08 |
| lbt | OK | 23:08 |
| rm_you | that was... minimally informative | 23:08 |
| rm_you | my issue is lack of libs to compile against | 23:08 |
| rm_you | spent yesterday trying to tackle about 100 nested dependencies | 23:09 |
| rm_you | i felt like i was back in 1990 | 23:09 |
| rm_you | except instead of just installing them, i had to compile them all | 23:09 |
| lbt | so the question I have is more "how do we maintain them?" | 23:09 |
| rm_you | wasn't expecting developing Harmattan apps to be like installing Linux From Scratch :P | 23:09 |
| rm_you | hrm | 23:10 |
| rm_you | well | 23:10 |
| rm_you | the maemo-extras system for ITOS2008 seemed to work well | 23:10 |
| rm_you | :) | 23:10 |
| antman8969 | similarly to how they were maintained on extras I suppose? | 23:10 |
| rm_you | diablo | 23:10 |
| rm_you | yes | 23:10 |
| antman8969 | and even if it didn't, with no replacement system then all we can make are qt apps | 23:10 |
| lbt | they weren't maintained ... they were tossed into a pile | 23:10 |
| rm_you | i never actually compiled anything for maemo5 really, besides ABL | 23:10 |
| rm_you | well, it was better than nothing | 23:11 |
| rm_you | which is what we seem to have now | 23:11 |
| rm_you | but i get your point | 23:11 |
| rm_you | we should be brainstorming and discussing something that is even better | 23:11 |
| lbt | we did that ... | 23:11 |
| rm_you | err | 23:11 |
| lbt | did you actually read that page? | 23:11 |
| rm_you | yes | 23:11 |
| lbt | and follow the links? | 23:11 |
| rm_you | no :/ | 23:11 |
| lbt | mmm | 23:11 |
| lbt | http://mer-l-in.blogspot.com/2011/01/meego-community-development-apps.html | 23:12 |
| rm_you | yeah reading it now | 23:12 |
| antman8969 | lbt before you go | 23:12 |
| lbt | bear in mind that is a goal... not a step 1 :) | 23:12 |
| lbt | antman8969: sure... | 23:12 |
| antman8969 | do you know if the harmattan obs target is working? I was trying to compile against it (because harmattan starts its apps using invoker / Mdeclarativewindow) but it won't appearr in the build status after being added | 23:13 |
| lbt | which proj/pkg ? | 23:13 |
| antman8969 | MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard | 23:13 |
| antman8969 | auto complete filled in for me | 23:14 |
| antman8969 | upon a harmattan search | 23:14 |
| rm_you | so surrounds is what i'm talking about needing | 23:15 |
| antman8969 | which is Meego:1.2:harmattan | 23:15 |
| lbt | rm_you: yep... | 23:15 |
| lbt | IMHO ... porting/maintaining ? | 23:15 |
| rm_you | but... it is not really in place yet / functional? | 23:15 |
| lbt | rm_you: only because no-one else has really stepped up | 23:15 |
| *** harbaum has quit IRC | 23:16 | |
| rm_you | lbt: so what do I have to do to "step up" and help? | 23:16 |
| rm_you | i guess that's not really clear to me | 23:16 |
| lbt | I don't think we have a clear answer.... | 23:18 |
| lbt | do we need to simply have maintainers for libraries? | 23:18 |
| lbt | do we need to nominate an upstream? | 23:18 |
| antman8969 | what is the alternative? | 23:19 |
| rm_you | well i have been using either squeeze or natty as my upstream | 23:19 |
| lbt | take on full 'maintainership' .... monitor for security, own bugs | 23:19 |
| rm_you | since they come with debian buildrules | 23:19 |
| lbt | rm_you: and this is the point .. at least get everyone on the same page :) | 23:20 |
| rm_you | you mentioned using openSuse, i assume because they already use OBS (and, wrote it?) | 23:20 |
| rm_you | i don't really CARE | 23:20 |
| rm_you | as long as it works | 23:20 |
| lbt | bear in mind this was for MeeGo | 23:20 |
| rm_you | and i think many people are in the same position | 23:20 |
| rm_you | they'd rather not even KNOW how it works so long as it does | 23:20 |
| lbt | and Harmattan is not rpm based | 23:20 |
| rm_you | excellent | 23:20 |
| rm_you | so | 23:20 |
| rm_you | we can pick squeeze or natty and run? | 23:21 |
| rm_you | i'm not actually sure which is a closer fit | 23:21 |
| antman8969 | neither! | 23:21 |
| rm_you | debian might be better from a #legal standpoint | 23:21 |
| antman8969 | if you launch your apps using the invoker then you won't be able to compile | 23:21 |
| lbt | antman8969: you had armvel | 23:22 |
| lbt | armv8el | 23:22 |
| antman8969 | auto complete :/ assumed it was meaningful | 23:22 |
| antman8969 | lbt, could libs be treated like every other package? Someone builds in their home and then promotes to testing to get migrated? | 23:23 |
| lbt | clearly you're helping us idiot proof it ;) | 23:23 |
| lbt | yes, that makes sense | 23:23 |
| lbt | I'd suggest we have Surrounds:Testing though | 23:23 |
| rm_you | well that doesn't solve the main problem he brought up about compatibility across projects with no real maintainer for the lib | 23:24 |
| rm_you | i thought | 23:24 |
| rm_you | because that's still just "port and forget" | 23:24 |
| antman8969 | but | 23:24 |
| rm_you | then again that's still SOMETHING | 23:24 |
| lbt | yes - but then we can automate tracking the upstream | 23:24 |
| rm_you | yeah | 23:24 |
| rm_you | k | 23:24 |
| antman8969 | and the libs would stay up to date as long as someone wanted them to be | 23:24 |
| antman8969 | well hey, the sooner the better, can really develop atm... | 23:25 |
| lbt | antman8969: you appear to have written a .spec for harmattan ... :) | 23:25 |
| *** CaCO3 has quit IRC | 23:26 | |
| antman8969 | lol ye athat wasn't in there first... I couldn't find how to trigger a deb build | 23:26 |
| antman8969 | should I upload my debian directory?? | 23:26 |
| antman8969 | / rules | 23:26 |
| lbt | you need a .dsc | 23:26 |
| antman8969 | ooh | 23:26 |
| antman8969 | well thats great... | 23:26 |
| antman8969 | uploading now | 23:26 |
| lbt | I assume debian/ is in the tarball | 23:26 |
| antman8969 | did you happen to do someting just now? | 23:27 |
| rm_you | lbt: so assuming i have a source deb/tar.gz, how do i go about getting it built in OBS? | 23:27 |
| antman8969 | the repo is now appearing | 23:27 |
| lbt | I did ... I added armv7el | 23:27 |
| lbt | rm_you: upload the .dsc and the .tar.gz ... wait | 23:28 |
| rm_you | ? | 23:28 |
| lbt | that's it ... just upload them | 23:29 |
| rm_you | reading this: http://en.opensuse.org//openSUSE:Build_Service_Tutorial | 23:29 |
| lbt | mmm | 23:29 |
| rm_you | is it accurate to our instance? | 23:29 |
| lbt | no | 23:29 |
| lbt | has anyone got a nice python qml app for harmattan ? | 23:29 |
| rm_you | umm ok so | 23:30 |
| rm_you | i'm trying to build this: | 23:30 |
| rm_you | ftp://ftp.videolan.org/pub/x264/snapshots/last_x264.tar.bz2 | 23:30 |
| rm_you | sooo | 23:30 |
| rm_you | i uploaded it via the web interface into a package i created called "x264" | 23:31 |
| rm_you | so what now | 23:31 |
| epage | lbt not yet, just getting started learning qml and it has been enough of a pain that I'm making some debugging tools first (dislike IDEs) | 23:31 |
| rm_you | i feel like i'm missing the point entirely | 23:31 |
| lbt | epage: OK ... emacs only for me :) | 23:31 |
| epage | even emacs is too bloated :P | 23:32 |
| lbt | rm_you: a .dsc | 23:32 |
| lbt | epage: ah.... you miss the point... emacs defines "just right" | 23:32 |
| lbt | rm_you: you need to have packaged it ... yes? | 23:32 |
| rm_you | lbt: what? the entire point of this is that i haven't managed to package it because it requires like 20 libs | 23:33 |
| rm_you | have been trying in SB | 23:33 |
| lbt | mmm ... Harmattan is a distro. | 23:34 |
| rm_you | spent yesterday working through 10 or so of them and getting those to compile | 23:34 |
| lbt | compile... not packaged? | 23:34 |
| rm_you | debs yes | 23:34 |
| rm_you | packaged | 23:34 |
| lbt | OK | 23:34 |
| rm_you | but i haven't finished yet | 23:34 |
| lbt | so each of them needs uploading | 23:34 |
| rm_you | so i upload what... the debs? | 23:34 |
| rm_you | for the libs i've done? | 23:35 |
| lbt | why would you upload debs to a builder? | 23:35 |
| rm_you | not sure | 23:35 |
| lbt | did you use autobuilder? | 23:35 |
| antman8969 | lol | 23:35 |
| rm_you | but you asked if they were packaged | 23:35 |
| antman8969 | upload the tar.gz and a dsc | 23:35 |
| lbt | yes.... | 23:35 |
| lbt | antman8969: I did say that didn't I ? | 23:35 |
| antman8969 | you said deb I thought | 23:35 |
| lbt | 23/07/2011 20:28] <lbt> rm_you: upload the .dsc and the .tar.gz ... wait | 23:36 |
| rm_you | so... for the package "x264", i upload the 20 or so tar.gz and .dsc pairs? | 23:36 |
| rm_you | and it will compile them all? or | 23:36 |
| rm_you | this doesn't seem any different than scratchbox | 23:36 |
| lbt | I'm thinking you need to grok what a package is | 23:37 |
| rm_you | for the last 10 years, to me, package == .deb or .rpm | 23:37 |
| antman8969 | yea | 23:37 |
| antman8969 | it makes the deb | 23:37 |
| rm_you | anything less than that is "source files" | 23:37 |
| antman8969 | from the tar.gz | 23:37 |
| lbt | ah ... so now you're on the other side | 23:37 |
| rm_you | oh you meant "package" in OBS | 23:38 |
| lbt | "to package" : create the distro-specific rules to turn a tarball into a .deb or .rpm | 23:38 |
| rm_you | ok, so the verb, not the noin | 23:38 |
| rm_you | *noun | 23:38 |
| antman8969 | lol | 23:38 |
| rm_you | yeah so back when i built ebuilds for gentoo, or when i write debian/rules, etc | 23:39 |
| rm_you | i am "packaging" | 23:39 |
| lbt | yes | 23:39 |
| rm_you | right... | 23:39 |
| lbt | I assumed.... sry | 23:39 |
| rm_you | i guess what i'm struggling to understand is, how is OBS helping me at all with dependencies vs. just using SB | 23:39 |
| rm_you | maybe the problem is i was misinformed earlier | 23:39 |
| rm_you | when we were discussing what OBS was supposed to help with | 23:40 |
| rm_you | i remember using OBS for Mer | 23:40 |
| antman8969 | well, you will be helping ppl | 23:40 |
| lbt | OBS is a scalable packaging system for a distro | 23:40 |
| rm_you | and when i wanted to build a package, i would ssh in to my machine with OBS, and say "build this tar.gzs please" and it would automatically download the source for every dep and compile it for me | 23:40 |
| dm8tbr | the idea is that those packages are available to everyone to base off or just use them | 23:40 |
| SpeedEvil | And that only one person needs to build liblzma | 23:41 |
| rm_you | this does not appear to be even remotely similar to the OBS i used for Mer | 23:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Or whatever | 23:41 |
| rm_you | first of all, that was in a shell :P | 23:41 |
| rm_you | but regardless | 23:41 |
| lbt | rm_you: it's identical :) | 23:42 |
| rm_you | i was expecting it to automatically grab source from somewhere (like debian or somesuch) and take care of a lot of things for me | 23:42 |
| rm_you | so if i'm trying to compile this app, and it has 20 depends... do i have to upload the source for the depends myself too? | 23:42 |
| lbt | rm_you: ah... you've been reading Asimov again :) | 23:42 |
| rm_you | but that's HOW IT WORKED for Mer | 23:42 |
| rm_you | this isn't fantasy :/ | 23:42 |
| lbt | no... it's really not | 23:42 |
| rm_you | i actually DID this | 23:43 |
| lbt | I wuz there | 23:43 |
| dm8tbr | rm_you: if those libs have already been packaged, no | 23:43 |
| rm_you | so i guess Mer was just 1000% more fully built-out than Harmattan is | 23:43 |
| rm_you | and that's the problem :/ | 23:43 |
| lbt | possibly | 23:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | the point | 23:44 |
| lbt | but it sounds like you're building some video system ? | 23:44 |
| dm8tbr | I guess OBS was not around from day-1 of fremantle | 23:44 |
| lbt | so .. usually "hello world" is a better starting point :) | 23:44 |
| rm_you | lol | 23:44 |
| rm_you | well | 23:44 |
| rm_you | i can build a hello world prog in SB in like 20 seconds | 23:45 |
| lbt | neat | 23:45 |
| rm_you | i guess i can try to then run that through OBS | 23:45 |
| lbt | yep | 23:45 |
| rm_you | to "learn" | 23:45 |
| rm_you | is that your point? | 23:45 |
| lbt | and then build one that depends on another lib | 23:45 |
| lbt | package that lib | 23:45 |
| lbt | upload | 23:45 |
| rm_you | well, i guess I need to get all these libs compiling in SB first anyway | 23:45 |
| lbt | and see how the 2 interact | 23:45 |
| rm_you | so i can upload them to OBS | 23:45 |
| rm_you | so back to that for now | 23:45 |
| lbt | and you can do that anyway .... | 23:46 |
| lbt | as you get one to compile ... upload the .tgz and the .dsc | 23:46 |
| rm_you | yeah | 23:46 |
| lbt | if it builds in a *clean* SB then it will (should) build on the OBS | 23:46 |
| lbt | so start at the bottom and work up | 23:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | feels loke gentoo native | 23:47 |
| rm_you | right now i'm trying to figure out why dpkg-buildpackage says i have like 20 unmet depends on mplayer | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | like* | 23:47 |
| rm_you | but when i run ./configure && make, it successfully builds | 23:47 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: MeeGo is a new distro... that's the point | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, I know | 23:48 |
| lbt | rm_you: because dpkg-buildpackage looks to see if you've *installed* the build deps | 23:48 |
| rm_you | i think i need to build apt-source for SB | 23:48 |
| lbt | you just make installed them | 23:48 |
| rm_you | lbt: but i haven't | 23:48 |
| rm_you | i mean | 23:48 |
| rm_you | i haven't make/installed them either | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | and the distro maintainer did a job that's not exactly convincing and attracting "new developers" | 23:48 |
| rm_you | these deps are like | 23:48 |
| rm_you | hildon | 23:48 |
| antman8969 | lbt is there a wiki page yet where people can claim what libs they intend to build, or something similar? | 23:49 |
| rm_you | that doesn't even exist | 23:49 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: yes... they aren't building a distro | 23:49 |
| lbt | they're building a baseline for commercial vendors to build products | 23:49 |
| lbt | if you want a distro... look around | 23:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | hey, isn't that the same? | 23:49 |
| lbt | down to us mate :) | 23:49 |
| lbt | no.. it's really not | 23:49 |
| lbt | antman8969: yes.. ITP | 23:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd maintain my notion it is, just your target audience is different | 23:50 |
| Clint | lbt: can you add me too? (clint) | 23:50 |
| lbt | done Clint | 23:51 |
| antman8969 | very useful http://wiki.meego.com/Build_Infrastructure/Community_Builder/ITP | 23:51 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: yes ... but then 'we' think we're the target audience .. we're not | 23:51 |
| Clint | lbt: thanks | 23:51 |
| * lbt is off for a bit ... | 23:52 | |
| lbt | l8r | 23:52 |
| rm_you | i seem to have forgotten how the structure of a debian repo works | 23:52 |
| rm_you | i am looking at http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/m/mplayer/ | 23:52 |
| rm_you | i am expecting there to be a source tar.gz there] | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | lbt: how's that? are we not professional enough? :-o | 23:53 |
| rm_you | do i need to be looking in a different place for the source? | 23:53 |
| antman8969 | you're wondering how to... upload the source? or where to get it? | 23:54 |
| rm_you | where to get it | 23:54 |
| rm_you | normally when i want source, i just go to the repo and grab it | 23:54 |
| rm_you | and usually it is right next to the deb | 23:54 |
| rm_you | the version in garage was the one built only for diablo | 23:54 |
| rm_you | i need the source from the fremantle port | 23:54 |
| rm_you | like this: ftp://mirrors.powersource.cx/pub/debian-multimedia/pool/main/m/mplayer/ | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | lbt: look there are distros for dentists, distros for musicians, distros for developers of games, distros for musicians, even distros for FPGA programmer EE | 23:56 |
| rm_you | there are the debs, and the source tar.gz, and the dsc and the patches for the distro | 23:56 |
| antman8969 | i am about to leave but | 23:56 |
| antman8969 | http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle/free/source/liba/libao0/ | 23:56 |
| antman8969 | that should be helpful | 23:56 |
| rm_you | AH | 23:56 |
| rm_you | it puts it in a seperate tree | 23:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | I really can't see why this distro for commercial vendors to build products is so terribly poorly supported and maintained | 23:56 |
| rm_you | thanks antman8969 | 23:57 |
| antman8969 | yea, like when you add it to apt you need to make it a deb or a deb-src | 23:57 |
| antman8969 | np | 23:57 |
| antman8969 | ill bbl gl | 23:57 |
| lbt | DocScrutinizer: because a distro for dentists usually bases on top of a general purpose distro. MeeGo bases on a bare-minimum distro. | 23:57 |
| *** lbt is now known as lbt_away | 23:57 | |
| DocScrutinizer | look at specialized meta distros, like e.g knoppix | 23:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | a rescue distro for the only purpose to recover broken systems | 23:58 |
| rm_you | maybe I am missing a repo? | 23:59 |
| rm_you | in scratchbox? | 23:59 |
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