IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2011-07-15

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* DocScrutinizer has a great idea fro an app: Nokia -> english, english -> Nokia dictionary17:40
DocScrutinizeris there a meaning of lystii, lannku, dali?17:40
Meklankku == plank/board or something like that17:41
DocScrutinizeror are those just 'names', unlike rapuyama which is "lobster" afaik17:41
DocScrutinizermgedmin: thanks17:41
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer17:41
*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "a cozy little place for pure harmattan device discussions | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing discuss in #meego-arm please | chanlogs: see ~logs , |"17:42
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +v povbot`17:44
* javispedro is happy17:44
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DocScrutinizermgedmin: will powbot autojoin when kicked?17:46
javispedroheh, zehjotkah is running fennec on n950 seemingly.17:47
DocScrutinizerzehjotkah is doind some amazing things17:47
* javispedro had an evil idea the other, after seeing that microb seemingly has something about "microbQt"17:47
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thebootroohello i have a problem17:48
thebootrooqml sucks17:48
DocScrutinizermgedmin: could you test if povbot` gets auto-voiced on join, please?17:49
Venemothebootroo, that is not true17:49
Venemothebootroo, what's wrong?17:49
thebootrooi have made a wonderfull UI in Qwidget for maemo5 and now i want to make it run under harmattan but qml does nt give me the same level of support17:49
thebootrooVenemo: that is17:49
thebootrooVenemo: i cant even design UI using qtcreator : it show a blank 50x50 rectangle17:50
thebootrooand i can't test the app on myy computer, the ui made is only runnable on harmattan17:50
cpscottithebootroo, well.. there's always this:
Venemothebootroo, by coding QML by hand, I was able to replace the QWidget-based GUI of one of my apps under a say17:50
DocScrutinizeroooh povbot isn't registered17:50
thebootroothe app i made use to run under win7, ubuntu, maemo5 and symbian with the SAME code17:51
DocScrutinizernah, can't be, it got a cloak17:51
thebootrooVenemo: maybe you are not as exigent as i am17:51
Venemothebootroo, read
lcukthebootroo, what is your app?17:51
cpscottiVenemo, heheh I was looking for that link.. totally righteous blot post17:52
thebootrooVenemo: i can't just extend qml because it would mean recreate all the classes i've made in qwidget (a full set) and rethink the UI concepts qml which doesn't allow layouting, sizepolicies c17:52
javispedroVenemo: so, you can get the open meegotouchhome in harmattan by replacing SwipeDesktopView with "DesktopView" in /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/meegotouchhome.conf"17:52
DocScrutinizermgedmin: you might want to /ns group povbot`17:52
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javispedroVenemo: but it looks very ugly and in fact I don't know how to hit launcher.17:52
mgedminDocScrutinizer, you're asking me advanced IRC questions about things I've no clue about17:53
javispedroprobably missing theme files17:53
Venemojavispedro, hmm...17:53
thebootrooVenemo: i've read this blog and totally disagree : i didn't need more than 3 or 4 single #defines to make my app fully portable17:53
Venemothebootroo, oooh, it does allow all that. you just need to read a doc17:53
infobotAll conversations are logged to Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.17:53
mgedminpovbot is more or less stock supybot with the ChannelLogger plugin enabled17:54
DocScrutinizermgedmin: please make povbot issue the command >> /msg nickserv group <<17:54
thebootrooVenemo: from the doc : 'qml don't matter about any kind of size control'17:54
DocScrutinizermgedmin: [Notice] -NickServ- povbot` is not registered.17:54
thebootroowhich is bad17:54
mgedminand I don't think it'll respect the "no logs of messages starting with a space" rule17:54
Venemothebootroo, but QML Components can17:54
Venemothebootroo, eg. there is the anchor component which can do what you want17:54
DocScrutinizermgedmin: I can't add povbot` to channel's access list to autovoice it17:54
mgedminDocScrutinizer what does that nickserv group thing do?17:54
javispedrowhy it needs voice?17:54
DocScrutinizerit associates the nick povbot` to supybot's account17:55
thebootrooVenemo: i won't use components since it don't run on all plateforms its too specifical17:55
Venemothebootroo, that is why I recommend reading that blog17:55
mgedminwhat "supybot's account"?17:55
thebootrooVenemo: i read it17:55
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: for convenience reasons, so the bots show up on top of userlist in enabled clients17:55
thebootrooVenemo: but i don't want to create 6 differents ui17:55
Venemoit's not hard17:55
thebootrooVenemo: when the aim is to have the same look17:56
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-15 16:52:05] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on supybot (account supybot):17:56
lcukthebootroo, what is your app?17:56
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-15 16:52:05] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Mar 27 22:06:47 2003 (8 years, 15 weeks, 6 days, 16:45:18 ago)17:56
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-15 16:52:05] [Notice] -NickServ- Last addr  : ~supybot@www522.hostpc.com17:56
thebootrooVenemo: it is, my apps are not simple hello world17:56
*** povbot` is now known as povbot17:56
javispedro(more like unconvenience reasons, because I now always have those top fixed items in the user list)17:56
thebootrooVenemo: its a waste of time17:56
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GeneralAntillesthebootroo, your application shouldn't have the same look across all platforms.17:56
GeneralAntillesThat's just wrong.17:56
thebootrooi need to port my own classes but i'm not sure creating custome QDeclarativeitem will ever give me the same level of UI cohesion i use to have in QWidget/QGRaphicsTIem17:57
DocScrutinizer/whois povbot17:57
Venemothebootroo, it takes a LOT less to code it than to code QWidgets GUIs. at the end you spend barely more time. in return, you get a nice GUI for every platform17:57
lcukGeneralAntilles, if I design a website, it looks the same everywhere17:57
lcuksame with flash things17:57
Venemothebootroo, QDeclarativeItem *IS* a QGraphicsItem17:57
mgedminDocScrutinizer, I've no idea how to tell povbot how to issue messages to nickserv!17:57
lcukactually making things look totally different is not always desired17:57
thebootrooVenemo: false17:57
mgedminI find supybot very user-unfriendly17:57
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thebootrooVenemo: qml syntax is hyper heavy, overall is i need to multiply by 6 the number of files17:58
lcukbut integration with components is of course positive17:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk, a website is not an application.17:58
DocScrutinizermgedmin: /msg nickserv help group17:58
Venemothebootroo, ever read a .ui file? compare with that...17:58
lcukGeneralAntilles, HTML517:58
mgedmindid that17:58
thebootrooVenemo: and i find the json-like syntax totally unreadable and hard to browse throught in file more than 50 lines17:58
mgedminyou'd like me to group povbot with my own nickserv account?17:58
lcuktell that to google yahoo microsoft nokia even (WRT etc)17:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk, no, I'm not playing this game this morning. I, personally, think it's a better plan to integrate closely with the look and feel of the platform you're deploying to.17:58
GeneralAntillesOtherwise you're stepping all over its UI conventions17:58
lcukGeneralAntilles, of course17:58
Venemothebootroo, the sooner you get used to it the better17:59
lardmandid I miss the #meego-meeting?17:59
thebootrooGeneralAntilles: not same colors but same behavior, and my custom classes handles the theme changing very well17:59
GeneralAntillesand that's neither good nor desirable.17:59
javispedroGeneralAntilles: but QML does wonders for stepping over UI conventons!17:59
mgedminI could tell povbot to change its nick to xxxtempxxx, change _my_ nick to povbot, issue the nickserv group thing, then change my nick back and change povbot back to povbot17:59
lcukno lardman17:59
DocScrutinizermgedmin: I'd like povbot to register with nickserv17:59
mgedminis that what you'd like me to do?17:59
lcuki did not see the meeting17:59
lardmanlcuk: nor me17:59
DocScrutinizermgedmin: it's not a big thing17:59
DocScrutinizermgedmin: but nice to have17:59
mgedminor maybe there's a nickserv feature/plugin for supybot?17:59
mgedmin"13 Sep 2008 – You can make Supybot identify itself to the network NickServ after it has connected" says google17:59
* javispedro was googling the same =)18:00
thebootrooVenemo: why do i need to get used to something i don't like because it don't get the level i need to dev my apps ? qml is just good for small gadgets not 8 or 10 pages apps full of layouts and complex wigtes18:00
Venemothebootroo, disagreed18:00
* lcuk wonders why angry birds does not use UI themes18:00
thebootrooVenemo: prove it18:00
lcukor any game for that matter :P18:01
DocScrutinizermgedmin: I don't mind if you group the povbot name to whatever account you like18:01
lcukthebootroo, for the third time, what is your app?18:01
DocScrutinizeryou just need to have the credetials of that account ;-)18:01
Venemothebootroo, first, I did port my QGV-based app just by altering my stuff to derive from QDeclarativeItem.18:01
DocScrutinizerif supybot account isn't *your* account then probably you won't group povbot to supybot18:01
mgedminno, supybot is most definitely not *my* account18:02
Venemothebootroo, then I added this to some QML I wrote in a couple of hours and then I wired it up with some minimal code18:02
thebootrooVenemo: how you make QDeclarativeItem support layouting, sizepolicy and proper styling (without pixmaps)18:02
GAN900lcuk, games are a separate issue. :)18:02
DocScrutinizerok, so group povbot to mgedmin account I suggest18:02
lcukGAN900, games are apps18:02
mgedmindoes that also mean I'll have to configure supybot so that it can identify with nickserv?18:03
GAN900lcuk, semantics.18:03
javispedrogames have traditionally defined their own look and feel.18:03
DocScrutinizeraah nevermind then18:03
javispedromgedmin: that seems relatively easy:
mgedminI'd have preferred a blog post with a HOWTO18:04
lcukDocScrutinizer, having the bot voiced hasn't been needed in any other channel?18:04
javispedrobut either way I don't know why do all of this, this would be the first channel I've joined to that has voiced bots =)18:04
Venemothebootroo, the components take care of that afaik... dunno. I'lI share with you my code when I'm finished. (this app is probably a lot simpler than yours, I chose to port it first because it's one of my simplest)18:04
lcukwhy now18:04
thebootrooVenemo: my apps need proper layouting, not complex parent.height - 10 + me.height / 2 + icon.height ...etc18:04
DocScrutinizerit's just when it doesn't register, any rogue user can snatch the nick and pretend he's povbot18:04
lcuksame has been true for years then18:04
DocScrutinizerand I can't addpovbot to can access list to give it auto-voice18:04
mgedmincan the notional rogue do any damage that way?18:04
Venemothebootroo, mine didn't exactly need it, but if you entrust the proper QML components to do their job, they can do it well18:04
lcukDocScrutinizer, povbot listens, he does not need voice :P18:05
thebootrooVenemo: i have at least 7 differents apps to port, all based on my own set of qwidgets, that i was rewriting in qgraphicsItem, before the announce of n950 not supporting them18:05
DocScrutinizerlcuk: it's not needed, it's just a convenience thing18:05
javispedroVenemo: thebootroo: also, aren't there QML layouts too, like Grid?18:05
lcukfor what? povbot is in many maemo/meego channels18:05
DocScrutinizerlcuk: some sort of highlight18:05
mgedminDocScrutinizer, I will happily follow a HOWTO that I can understand18:05
Venemojavispedro, yes.18:05
mgedmingiving me the git source view of a supybot plugin I don't know if I have or not is not a HOWTO18:05
thebootroojavispedro: QML layouts sucks, problems with spacing and not way to equally distribute the parent size, it only puts elements side by side18:06
* javispedro thinks Qt layouts suck, but that's another story..18:06
Venemothebootroo, that is untrue18:06
lcukVenemo, do you knkow what thebootroo's app is, I asked a few times but he didn't answer18:06
Venemolcuk, no I do not know.18:06
Venemolcuk, but it must be very complicated seeing the way he talks about it18:06
* lcuk nods18:07
thebootroojavispedro: qlayout can be easily subclassed to do wonderfull layouts, like i did (carrousels, smart spaced grids, flow layouts...°18:07
fiferboythebootroo: QML anchor layouts are really easy and really powerful, as long as your widget knows what size it should be18:07
fiferboyanchor layout margins make spacing equally easy18:07
lcukspeaking of grids and stuff, is it possible to do the grid reordering thing that is on harmattan app grid easily?18:07
DocScrutinizermgedmin: howto: remove povbot so the nick is free, you do /nick povbot, you do /msg nickserv group (assuming you are already registered to nickserv), you do /nick mgedmin, you make povbot join in again and send /msg nickserv ID MySecretPasswordForMgedminAccount18:07
javispedroDocScrutinizer: but povbot needs to authenticate to services and that's the hard part seemingly.18:08
mgedminDocScrutinizer: the last step is the kicker -- how do I make supybot do that nickserv thing?18:08
thebootroofiferboy: anchors sucks because it needs to know who is the previous widget to position against it18:08
DocScrutinizermgedmin: [2011-07-15 17:03:37] <javispedro> mgedmin: that seems relatively easy:
javispedro(note: I never used supybot =) )18:09
mgedmindpkg -L supybot|grep Services -> I at least have the plugin18:09
* DocScrutinizer neither18:09
mgedminDocScrutinizer: <mgedmin> giving me the git source view of a supybot plugin I don't know if I have or not is not a HOWTO18:09
thebootroolcuk: some of my apps : google reader client (full client, not just read a list of news), movies manager and info retriever, spotify client with auto orientation, big text documents reader with infinite scrolling....18:09
mgedminwell, now I know that I have the plugin18:09
mgedminbut the process of enabling a plugin in supybot is lost in the fog of memory18:09
DocScrutinizermgedmin: fair enough18:10
mgedminI remember that it involves much cursing18:10
fiferboythebootroo: Hmm, maybe anchors suck for a very specific kind of interface with lots of programatically generated elements (although I would think you could programatically anchor them without issue) but not for most interfaces18:10
DocScrutinizermgedmin: it's not mandatory for channel maintenance, but for your bot it was a really nice-to-have so it knows nobody else can impersonate it18:10
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mgedminI am inclined to do what you ask me to do18:11
DocScrutinizermgedmin: so I'd appreciate it when you get it sorted, but it's definitely not mandatory18:12
mgedminI'm merely having slight technical difficulties figuring it out18:12
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-15 17:13:07] [Whois] MeeGoBot ist angemeldet als _MeeGoBot_.18:13
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-15 17:13:20] [Whois] infobot ist angemeldet als apt.18:13
DocScrutinizerpovbot.... <void>18:13
povbotDocScrutinizer: Error: "<void>" is not a valid command.18:13
javispedroand that's why it doesn't need voice =)18:14
javispedrojust let it log.18:14
DocScrutinizerunregistered bots have a bit of a suspicious flair18:14
javispedrobtw, what does the meegobot do?18:15
DocScrutinizertomorrow mr random hacker might decide to run another bot with nick povbot and we wouldn't even notice18:15
javispedroevil mr hacker would manage to see all of our miscelaneuous ramblings!18:15
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: replies to bug #118:15
MeeGoBotBug maj, Medium, ---, vivian.zhang, VERI FIXED, [Tracker] tracker-miner-fs should be auto-started after system boot18:15
DocScrutinizerI heard18:15
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: no, evil Mr hacker would kill original povbot18:16
Venemofiferboy, agreed18:16
DocScrutinizerand thus logging18:16
javispedroseems that meegobot is another instance of supybot18:16
javispedroMeeGoBot.... <void>18:17
javispedrohm... or no.18:17
javispedroah, it's mozbot.18:17
* mgedmin can type Lithuanian on his n950 after one day of experiments18:18
* mgedmin couldn't do that on his n900 after how many years now?18:18
javispedroI can't type {} on my N950's vkb18:18
Venemomgedmin, you remapped the hw kbd18:18
mgedminboth hw and vkb18:19
mgedminhere's what I did:
Venemomgedmin, how did you do that? I want to input öüóőúéáűí18:19
javispedroVenemo: on vkb hold "o"18:19
Venemojavispedro, I can input it with vkb by just choosing Hungarian as the input method18:19
mgedminthe diff is against meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard git sources, but it applies cleanly to the files in /usr/share/meegotouch/virtual-keyboard/layouts18:19
Venemojavispedro, I want this with hw kbd18:19
mgedminfor hw kbd see the hack I did to hwkbcharloops.xml to make Sym+letter do something18:20
mgedminthe default en_GB section is ignored because the actual language code is just 'en' without the _GB18:20
mgedminoh, and after you edit the .xml, you need to /sbin/initctl restart xsession/meego-im-uiserver18:21
mgedminpeople in #meego-inputmethods are very friendly and helpful18:21
Venemook, I'll try, wait a moment18:21
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mgedminnote: hwkb config depends on the UI language18:22
DocScrutinizerlcuk: also +V on a bot indicates it's an "official" bot18:22
mgedminvkb config depends on the text input methods you've chosen18:22
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Venemomgedmin, noooo... UI language... nooo18:23
mgedminwhich UI language do you use?18:23
mgedminUS or UK?18:23
Venemodunno, the default18:24
Venemoand I don't want to switch to Hungarian, the translations are usually crap18:24
mgedminI think the default is UK18:24
mgedminI'm curious what is 'gconftool -g /meegotouch/i18n/language' would say if you chose English (US)18:24
DocScrutinizerEnglish (UK)18:24
mgedminbut insufficiently curious to actually try it, because that would require a reboot18:24
Venemowhat the heck? harmattan uses gconf?18:25
DocScrutinizeryou bet, no?18:25
DocScrutinizergconftool -g /meegotouch/i18n/language  -> en18:27
DocScrutinizerfor english (UK)18:27
Venemomeh, gconf is obsolete18:27
mgedminwhich is why by default sym+letters do not input any accented versions, because hwkbcharloop.xml defines accents for "en_GB", not "en"18:27
DocScrutinizerVenemo: harmattan is obsolete ;-D18:28
DocScrutinizerI bet it uses HAL as well ;-)18:29
DocScrutinizerand I heard HAL is at least as obsolete as gconf18:30
Venemoit is a bit less obsolete18:30
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DocScrutinizeris it IBM now? ;-P18:31
DocScrutinizeras gconf is dconf now18:31
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TronicI bet also uses an obsolete logger, an obsolete init system and a totally obsolete filesystem.18:32
TronicWhat is it with these open-source hippies, always inventing new frameworks to accomplish the same old thing, only now broken in different ways.18:32
mgedminI thought HAL was more obsolete than gconf18:32
DocScrutinizerTronic: lol18:32
DocScrutinizerTronic: couldn't agree more :-)18:33
* DocScrutinizer deletes a line starting with PulseAu18:33
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rm_worknow that my n950 is in-route via DHL, i'm getting more excited :P18:35
* GeneralAntilles was, but now it's stuck in the UK.18:36
rm_workwas gonna ask if anyone in the US has gotten theirs yet18:36
fiferboyMine is on a loooong slight over, apparently18:36
rm_workand if it was actually 2 day shipping or if it ended up being like week-long shipping18:36
fiferboyLeft UK 8 hours ago and hasn't arrived anywhere yet18:36
thebootroowhat is the widget flag to allow auto rotation in harmattan18:36
rm_work7 Processed at EAST MIDLANDS - UK EAST MIDLANDS - UK 06:0618:37
GeneralAntillesIt's actually overnight express.18:37
GeneralAntillesBut DHL is fail as always.18:37
rm_workGeneralAntilles: lol yeah, wow... fail...18:37
rm_workovernight my @$% :P18:37
rm_workGeneralAntilles: your last status?18:37
GeneralAntillesSame as yours, but 06:2218:37
fiferboyOvernight express is next day by noon?18:37
GeneralAntillesEnd of next business day.18:37
GeneralAntillesEverything at DHL is "Express"18:38
rm_workthat'd be.... today18:38
rm_workand since it hasn't left the UK yet...18:38
GeneralAntillesThus the fail.18:38
rm_workmaybe they just... forgot to mention it left? :P18:38
DocScrutinizerquite possible18:38
fiferboyMine took an extra step after Midlands to London-Heathrow18:38
GeneralAntillesThey probably paid €100. . . .18:38
rm_workdoes FedEx not exist in Finland? >_>18:39
rm_workFedex seems to actually be the one competent shipping company IME18:39
GeneralAntillesUPS > FedEx18:39
rm_workUPS has been about as fail to me :/18:40
GeneralAntillesFedEx is always fail down here.18:40
GeneralAntillesDHL is USUALLY fail (though my sample size is low)18:40
rm_workI've had on multiple occasions 1-3 day shipping turn into 1-week shipping18:40
GeneralAntillesUPS is rarely fail.18:40
rm_workat least they refunded me >_>18:40
rm_workeach time18:40
GeneralAntillesI hardly ever do 3-day UPS anymore.18:40
GeneralAntillesUsually 2-day air or ground.18:40
mgedminok, here we go, let's try to unlock the home screen orientation18:40
rm_work3-day UPS used to be the #1 price-point18:41
mgedminI think I found a simpler way than
mgedminand by "simpler" I mean without the two mkdirs18:41
mgedmin/usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/style/meegotouchhome.css has an @import "custom.css"; at the end18:41
mgedminso what if I create a custom.css there18:42
mgedminand restart meegotouch-home with /sbin/initctl restart xsession/mthome18:43
* mgedmin tries18:43
mgedminnope, still locked to portrait18:43
mgedminand all my running apps were closed as a side effect18:43
rm_workhave you tried turning it off and on again? :P18:44
mgedminstill faster than a reboot though18:44
rm_workmayhaps you just need to restart something else18:44
rm_workyour theory makes sense18:44
mgedminyour theory is intriguing18:44
* mgedmin reboots18:44
rm_workmy theory is from IT Crowd (and any IT technician ever) :P18:45
rm_worklol redundant18:45
mgedminmaybe the themes are handled by some other component and restarting mthome is insufficient? reboot restarts everything18:45
mgedminnope, still locked to portrait18:46
mgedminand now my existing ssh session is dead obviously18:46
* mgedmin mkdir -p blanco/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/style/18:48
* mgedmin cd /usr/share/themes18:48
mgedmin(before the mkdir obviously)18:48
* lardman heads home18:48
* mgedmin mv base/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/style/custom.css blanco/me18:48
lardmancatch you chaps next week18:48
*** lardman is now known as lardman|gone18:48
* mgedmin /sbin/initctl restart xsession/mthome18:49
mgedminnow it works18:49
DocScrutinizerlardman|gone: enjoy your weekend18:50
DocScrutinizermgedmin: \o/18:50
mgedminI don't like the task switching animation18:50
Venemomgedmin, how about the redraw issue?18:50
mgedmintap on a window, it shrinks to a point and then suddenly takes over the screen18:50
mgedminI'd like to see it expand instead18:50
mgedminwhat redraw issue?  everyone talks about some redraw issue without explaining that it is with screenshots etc18:51
mgedminso far no issues detected18:52
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rlinfati hi, how match time take the option erase-mmc of the flasher on the n950 ?18:54
GAN900mgdemin, yeah, that really irritates me too.18:55
DocScrutinizerrlinfati: it's questionable anybody has tested that option yet18:56
rm_workGAN900: if it isn't out of midlands by tonight when I get off work, i'm going to be seriously lulz at DHL18:56
DocScrutinizerrlinfati: given the fact several users got their devices just 2 days ago, or not yet at all18:56
rlinfatiDocScrutinizer OK, take more of 10-15 min... :S18:57
DocScrutinizerhmm, while flashing a complete new image, there was some 30+ minutes mentioned. I haven't timed it18:59
rlinfatiyeah... the flash process was fast... but was not the secure erase mmc  ...18:59
rlinfatisome bug from fremantle are still in harmattan19:02
* rZr apt-get install turntable #
rm_workahhhh dokuwiki19:07
rm_workfavorite wiki software ever, use it every day :P19:08
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rlinfatihow i can login to ovi maps ? :S19:12
DocScrutinizerrlinfati: you need a nokia account (aka yahoo account)19:14
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DocScrutinizeror ovi account (all the same it seems)19:16
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rlinfatimy ovi account do not work :(19:29
rlinfatigrrr i setup and exchange account.... and now i can not add a other imap account :(19:30
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hiemanshustill no tracking number or delivery, I wonder what will happen19:34
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Elleoif anyone's interested in doing some 2d game dev for harmattan I've just built box2d and the box2d-qml wrappers:
Elleobox2d-qml looks really handy, it lets you setup all your physics stuff directly within a qml document19:53
cpscottiElleo, jeez.. that url really looks like microsoft at first look :D19:54
cpscottiElleo, awesome video! :D19:55
Elleothanks :)19:56
cpscottican you drag them to add energy/speed or just touching?19:56
cpscottilike.. on the video, are you clicking on the elements or "throwing" them?19:56
ElleoI'm just touching them, then they're firing off in random directions19:57
Elleobut there's nothing to stop you making it so that you can drag them around and such19:57
Elleothere's another demo that hooks up the accelerometer stuff to move the centre of gravity around19:57
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Elleo <-- all very nice and simple19:59
* mgedmin has no energy today to deal with supybot, please remind him some other day20:03
GeneralAntillesrm_work, this really is ridiculous.20:05
GeneralAntillesrm_work, what an enthusiasm drainer.20:05
cpscottiElleo, cool!20:11
cpscottiHey there.. I think I found a quite obvious bug on qml/harmattan-components wrt orientation20:30
Venemonah, who wants to try my first-ever Harmattan game?20:30
cpscottiVenemo, I can try20:31
Venemocpscotti, you prefer .deb or source?20:31
cpscottisource is cooler :D20:31
cpscottias long as it compiles & runs cool with QtSdk20:31
cpscottiotherwise just send the .deb20:32
cpscotti(well, the bug I found is quite obvious. Open QMLComponents demo that comes with the N950, position device in landscape mode; swipe the app to the background; Turn the phone into portrait mode; switch back to the app.. the top StatusBar will be messed up)20:33
cpscotti(anyone else confirms this?)20:34
mgedminwhich QMLComponents demo?  there are two20:34
cpscottiworks with both I think20:34
cpscottilet me check20:35
Venemocpscotti, that is a known bug, see
cpscottiahh cool20:35
Venemoat least, something like that is a known bug :P20:35
cpscottiVenemo, I was searching for it on and couldn't find much20:35
mgedminyes, the status bar is kinda messed up20:36
mgedminBTW I've done the hacky theme modification to allow landscape home screens20:36
mgedmindoes this happen with unmodified themes?20:36
Venemoshould open in Qt Creator and run20:36
Venemoit's still pre-release, some stuff doesn't work 100% well yet, but it's 90% okay now20:37
cpscottiVenemo, the bug I'm talking about is not that one..20:37
VenemoI need to leave now, but I'll get back later and then please tell me what you think of da app :P20:37
cpscottiI will20:37
cpscottimgedmin, I don't know.. I just found this..20:38
mgedminI mean, did you hack your themes to support landscape home screens?20:38
cpscottimgedmin, I tried the most simple possible Harmattan app with orientationLock: Automatic20:38
cpscottino no20:38
mgedminah, ok20:38
cpscottinever touched them20:38
cpscotti(sorry, I didn't get what you mean at first)20:39
mgedminyeah, sorry, I meant this:
mgedminheh, the wiki at
mgedminsays "modify themes [...] to support portrait"20:40
mgedminbut portrait is already supported, it's landscape we geeks crave20:40
cpscottiVenemo, haha.. make is going crazy here.. telling me your files com from the future :D lol20:40
mgedminalso, wtf?  there's ~/MyDocs/Music, but .mp3 files received over bluetooth end up in ~/MyDocs/.sounds20:41
Venemocpscotti, open the .pro in Qt Creator (>= 2.2.1), select Harmattan, and you'll be fine20:41
lcukwhere is that icon thingy javispedro did?20:41
cpscottimgedmin, yeah.. got it but no.. I didn't play with that20:41
cpscottiVenemo, it ran fine anyway.. :D Just trying to understand how the game works.;.20:42
cpscottiVenemo, haha! Cool game! :D20:43
cpscottilike it!20:43
Venemothanks cpscotti20:43
Venemoabout how it works: look at memorygameboard.cpp/.h and memorycard.cpp/.h20:43
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: finally20:46
DocScrutinizer15 Jul 2011 19:46:15, CONNECTED, USB100MA, STARTED, 0, FULL, 25, 8, 90, 1091, 4094, -82, -81, -109920:46
cpscottiVenemo, that's what I was doing.. and I got really happy to see I'm not the only one pending to the c++ side of qml :D20:48
cpscottiVenemo, only thing I'd change is the cards color... lol20:48
Venemocpscotti, I'll make that a setting20:48
cpscottibut then again, a color blind's opinion on colours isn't really worth much20:48
Venemocpscotti, plus I'll add an option to allow the user to select pics for the cards20:49
DocScrutinizermgedmin: the joys of a concept aiming agnostics of any directory structure20:49
cpscottiVenemo, you know.. Maybe I'd just talk to some graphic designer wanting to do free stuff for him to choose pics & colors20:49
DocScrutinizerTHE worst part of iPhone ever - now proudly introduced with harmattan20:50
VenemoDocScrutinizer, I wouldn't worry much, sounds like a good filemanager is in order20:50
mgedminwhen I first did ls MyDocs and saw Music, Videos etc., I was so happy "they" got rid of those .sounds/.images hidden directories20:51
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mgedminand now I'm feeling betrayed ;)20:51
DocScrutinizerVenemo: no filemanager of any acme qualities can replace a filepicker requester for attachment selection in mail, just to choose an arbitrary example20:51
Venemoanyway, I need to leave now20:52
Venemowill be back later20:52
* lcuk imagines Venemo putting on his superhero costume and cape20:52
Venemolcuk, if you're interested :)20:53
DocScrutinizerbeating up some UX designers in HEL? ;-D20:53
Venemoso, brb20:53
mgedminoh, oh, oh, I know what I want for my n95020:54
mgedminor a qr code reader20:55
DocScrutinizeriOS V-dunno now finally comes *with* C&P, harmattan now finally *got rid* of C&P20:55
mgedminwhat do you mean got rid?20:55
mgedminit works just fine in Notes20:55
DocScrutinizeroh why, is it always the crap details that get adopted by Nokia20:56
mgedminto annoy you personally, I'm sure :)20:56
MekC&P works just fine in any text field I've tried it in so far...20:56
DocScrutinizeriPhone at least one some of the solotmachine datepickers got week-of-day. In QML those are consequently omitted20:57
DocScrutinizerMek: what's worth a C&P in text input boxes when it doesn't work on browser and terminal?20:58
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Mekokay, yeah, not being able to copy from a browser is indeed a bit annoying20:59
DocScrutinizerC&P a dbus-send cmdline from wiki to shell ;-)20:59
lcukmost frustrating part of the swipe UX is that once you swipe something to the side20:59
lcuktrying to swipe back to where you were is not possible20:59
lcuklosing flow20:59
DocScrutinizermy notion is unchanged, I prefer the N900 every single day21:01
DocScrutinizerN9 is not, and never will be, the device for me21:02
DocScrutinizernevertheless I'm willing to help improve it for those who love the concept better than I do21:02
VenemoN9 may be not, but N950 maybe mine21:02
Venemothanks DocScrutinizer21:03
DocScrutinizertimy details like Fn-BS give me hope21:06
DocScrutinizeror ctl-Q21:07
DocScrutinizera faint twinkle of MHD awesomeness21:08
DocScrutinizerand obviously with type-to-search in any of the 3 basic screens together with Fn-BS to reach taskswitcher basic screen there's even a stub of a better way than in fremantle to start arbitrary apps via kbd only21:12
DocScrutinizermodified hildon desktop21:12
ieatlinti'm like swipe21:13
ieatlintbleh, i'm also good english talk person21:14
DocScrutinizerbasic GUI / MMI design rule: don't make the user constantly swap between kbd and mouse. Ergo plan for kbd shortcuts for all operations that are usually done via mouse, and possibly even plan for a vkbd to type the texts via mouse that you usually would enter via kbd21:16
DocScrutinizerwe actually HAVE a vkbd for "mouse", what's missing is full support for hw-kbd accelerator key shortcuts so you don't need to use "mouse"21:17
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DocScrutinizerone of the first Apple MacIntosh testers stated: "My keaboard was defect for a week. I got more work done during this week by only using this new thing, the mouse, and the virtual keyboard, than I usually get done on my other PC that has keyboard only"21:23
DocScrutinizerI wonder what the same guy would say today, about N900 when his touchscreen was defect21:25
DocScrutinizerprobably not "I got more work done on this awesome N900 hw keyboard alone than on an iPhone with virtual keyboard"21:26
ieatlintthat depends on if he needed to type a lot of non-alphanumeric chars21:28
VenemoDocScrutinizer, also, would be nice the GUI wouldn't flip back and forth between portrait and landscape, especially when the keyboard is slid out21:28
Venemoit just disturbs the natural flow on my usecase21:28
Venemoanyway, will be back later21:28
lcuk" error while loading shared libraries: [/usr/lib/] failed to map segment from shared object: Operation not permitted"21:32
lcukis this aegis?21:32
lcukit began after I copied binary over the top of installed one21:33
Mekyeah, if sha1 doesn't match it will refuse to load it21:33
lcukwhere is the sha1 stored and how can I update it?21:33
Mek(doesn't match with what was in the .deb that is installed)21:33
lcukyes I can understand that logically, ta for fragment of info21:34
* lcuk will just build a later package for now21:34
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dm8tbrlcuk: you'll probably need to also rename the package as you can't replace signed packages IIRC21:34
lcukdm8tbr, it is my own package21:35
dm8tbrlcuk: aaah, ok :)21:35
lcuki installed the file originally with dpkg -i21:35
lcukthen was updating just the file instead of new package21:35
lcukit is libliqbase21:35
lcukI was testing the calendar on the capacitive21:36
dm8tbrhow is it?21:36
lcukwell if I could run the calendar (this bug with loading the library now exists..) I would give a screenshot21:36
DocScrutinizerlcuk: yes, this is the security of aegis. You love it, no?21:37
lcuki actually do not mind21:37
lcukif the restriction is merely relating to installed packages21:37
lcukI will simply use "make; sudo make install" directly on the device :P21:38
* lcuk shrugs21:38
DocScrutinizerhmm, fair enough21:38
lcukit is similar to the windows protection stuff21:38
DocScrutinizerjust it breaks all the normal procedures and habits of the average hacker21:39
DocScrutinizerwhich is not what a devel device is meant for21:39
lcukit does show reason why qt-creator has reverted to always installing a package21:39
lcukwhen debugging21:39
lcukDocScrutinizer, when I got the device, happily amongst the first package I installed was "apt-get install build-essential"21:40
lcukthat to me makes it a good device :)21:40
DocScrutinizermy first package was bash, as you know21:40
DocScrutinizerand that experience made me somewhat hate the device21:41
lcukecho "deb harmattan/sdk free non-free" > /etc/apt/repos.d/sdktools.lst21:41
lcukapt-get update21:41
lcukapt-get install build-essential21:41
DocScrutinizerwon't give a *real* shell either21:42
lcukwow, when I got the n810 I wouldn't have known what that meant, by the n900 I knew it but didn't really know why21:42
lcuknow it is almost natural to read scripts21:42
* lcuk feels his beard getting longer21:43
rm_workGeneralAntilles: lol yeah it's ridiculous but i'm not letting it get me down :P21:43
DocScrutinizeranyway let me try that echo thing, I doubt it will work21:43
mgedminwhat tools are available in that harmattan sdk repo?21:44
lcukmg, have a peek around21:44
mgedmin is not friendly to peekers, seems like21:44
mgedminand I forgot the apt repo structure21:44
mgedminthat's a bazillion alphabetical directories21:46
mgedminis there a Packages.gz I could skim?21:46
DocScrutinizer-sh: can't create /etc/apt/repos.d/sdktools.lst: nonexistent directory21:46
mgedminDocScrutinizer it's sources.d, not repos.d21:47
DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe I shouldn't C&P that ruthlessly21:47
DocScrutinizeranyway I only got sources.list.d/21:48
* mgedmin fail at correcting21:48
ieatlintand the repos in sources.list.d/ are oddly password protected21:49
mgedminno vim in harmattan-dev, which is actually not that surprising...21:50
mgedminand no sudo, so lcuk's grand 'sudo make install' plan ain't gonna work21:51
ieatlintthere is vi21:51
mgedminyeah, busybox vi21:51
DocScrutinizerwell, the echo cmd to create sdktools.lst worked21:51
ieatlintyeah, that's good enough for me21:51
DocScrutinizerI wonder what it got me though21:52
mgedminyou got an additional repository and now can apt-get install additional stuff21:54
mgedminsuch as sqlite321:54
DocScrutinizerstill no bash, no mc. I refused to learn either vi or emacs since 20 years, won't stat with it to match Nokia's idea of what's an appropriate shell environment to do some work21:54
mgedminor strace21:54
mgedmindevelopment tools mostly, as far as I can see21:54
DocScrutinizerstrace :-)21:54
lcukmgedmin, it is the sdk repository used in scratchbox21:55
lcukeach version of maemo had same21:55
lcukwonderful resource :)21:55
mgedminI also remember the fun people had after running apt-get dist-upgrade with the sdk repository enabled21:55
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DocScrutinizerummm, maybe I want to rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.lst then?21:57
mgedminbetter refrain from dist-upgrade21:57
DocScrutinizerI always did :-D21:57
mgedminjust having those tools available for installation shouldn't hurt21:57
mgedminlcuk, if you find a sudo package, please share; I can't stand this devel-sh business21:58
lcukDocScrutinizer, yeah :$22:00
lcukharmattan does not like fullscreen/full resolution it has the tearing22:01
MeeGoBotBug 13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink22:01
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javispedroah, logs to read!22:12
* javispedro is happy22:12
javispedroalso, no work to do this weekend :)22:12
* javispedro puts on scratchbox wizard hat and robes22:12
ieatlintno work for me this weekend either :)22:19
ieatlinti can play with the n950 and start moving on the app :)22:20
Mekhmm, downloading maps seems to be broken on my n950... it downloads a file, but then just sits at 100% forever without doing anything...22:22
DocScrutinizerMek: heard it download a tarbal but fails to expand it22:23
javispedroit worked for me22:25
javispedrothe tarball was 30MiB thoug22:25
ieatlinthaha, i just tried to download a map on it, and it sat there at maybe 100kbps for a couple min, then gave me an error saying my connection is "too slow"22:26
ieatlint(it's on wifi with a ~15mbit uplink)22:26
Mekhmm, yeah, a 5MB map download works fine, but a 100MB one doesn't...22:27
ieatlintyeah, well, my local map package is 126.4mb22:28
ieatlintin my tests, the map application is nice, works well at finding places22:29
ieatlintbut the data is maybe 2 years old22:30
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Venemolcuk, do you have a couple of minutes for me?22:52
lcuknot really, i am debugging something22:52
Venemoyou'll miss out the first harmattan game :(22:53
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Venemomgedmin, you here?22:58
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