IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2011-07-15

*** povbot` has joined #harmattan17:39
* DocScrutinizer has a great idea fro an app: Nokia -> english, english -> Nokia dictionary17:40
Venemokhertan, http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24933&postcount=1417:40
DocScrutinizeris there a meaning of lystii, lannku, dali?17:40
mgedminDocScrutinizer: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/17:41
Meklankku == plank/board or something like that17:41
DocScrutinizeror are those just 'names', unlike rapuyama which is "lobster" afaik17:41
DocScrutinizermgedmin: thanks17:41
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer17:41
*** DocScrutinizer changes topic to "a cozy little place for pure harmattan device discussions | MeeGo N9(|50) CE on its way, MOSLO still missing discuss in #meego-arm please | chanlogs: see ~logs , http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950"17:42
*** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer17:42
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v povbot`17:44
* javispedro is happy17:44
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DocScrutinizermgedmin: will powbot autojoin when kicked?17:46
DocScrutinizerpovbot*17:46
javispedroheh, zehjotkah is running fennec on n950 seemingly.17:47
DocScrutinizerzehjotkah is doind some amazing things17:47
* javispedro had an evil idea the other, after seeing that microb seemingly has something about "microbQt"17:47
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thebootroohello i have a problem17:48
thebootrooqml sucks17:48
DocScrutinizermgedmin: could you test if povbot` gets auto-voiced on join, please?17:49
Venemothebootroo, that is not true17:49
Venemothebootroo, what's wrong?17:49
thebootrooi have made a wonderfull UI in Qwidget for maemo5 and now i want to make it run under harmattan but qml does nt give me the same level of support17:49
thebootrooVenemo: that is17:49
thebootrooVenemo: i cant even design UI using qtcreator : it show a blank 50x50 rectangle17:50
thebootrooand i can't test the app on myy computer, the ui made is only runnable on harmattan17:50
cpscottithebootroo, well.. there's always this: http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/declarative-tutorials-extending-chapter1-basics.html17:50
Venemothebootroo, by coding QML by hand, I was able to replace the QWidget-based GUI of one of my apps under a say17:50
DocScrutinizeroooh povbot isn't registered17:50
thebootroothe app i made use to run under win7, ubuntu, maemo5 and symbian with the SAME code17:51
DocScrutinizernah, can't be, it got a cloak17:51
thebootrooVenemo: maybe you are not as exigent as i am17:51
Venemothebootroo, read http://achipa.blogspot.com/2011/07/qt-components-story-of-ugly-qwidgetling.html17:51
lcukthebootroo, what is your app?17:51
cpscottiVenemo, heheh I was looking for that link.. totally righteous blot post17:52
thebootrooVenemo: i can't just extend qml because it would mean recreate all the classes i've made in qwidget (a full set) and rethink the UI concepts qml which doesn't allow layouting, sizepolicies ...et c17:52
javispedroVenemo: so, you can get the open meegotouchhome in harmattan by replacing SwipeDesktopView with "DesktopView" in /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/meegotouchhome.conf"17:52
DocScrutinizermgedmin: you might want to /ns group povbot`17:52
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javispedroVenemo: but it looks very ugly and in fact I don't know how to hit launcher.17:52
mgedminDocScrutinizer, you're asking me advanced IRC questions about things I've no clue about17:53
javispedroprobably missing theme files17:53
Venemojavispedro, hmm...17:53
thebootrooVenemo: i've read this blog and totally disagree : i didn't need more than 3 or 4 single #defines to make my app fully portable17:53
Venemothebootroo, oooh, it does allow all that. you just need to read a doc17:53
cpscotti~logs17:53
infobotAll conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/%23harmattan/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.17:53
mgedminpovbot is more or less stock supybot with the ChannelLogger plugin enabled17:54
DocScrutinizermgedmin: please make povbot issue the command >> /msg nickserv group <<17:54
thebootrooVenemo: from the doc : 'qml don't matter about any kind of size control'17:54
DocScrutinizermgedmin: [Notice] -NickServ- povbot` is not registered.17:54
thebootroowhich is bad17:54
mgedminand I don't think it'll respect the "no logs of messages starting with a space" rule17:54
Venemothebootroo, but QML Components can17:54
Venemothebootroo, eg. there is the anchor component which can do what you want17:54
DocScrutinizermgedmin: I can't add povbot` to channel's access list to autovoice it17:54
mgedminDocScrutinizer what does that nickserv group thing do?17:54
javispedrowhy it needs voice?17:54
DocScrutinizerit associates the nick povbot` to supybot's account17:55
thebootrooVenemo: i won't use components since it don't run on all plateforms its too specifical17:55
Venemothebootroo, that is why I recommend reading that blog17:55
mgedminwhat "supybot's account"?17:55
thebootrooVenemo: i read it17:55
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: for convenience reasons, so the bots show up on top of userlist in enabled clients17:55
thebootrooVenemo: but i don't want to create 6 differents ui17:55
Venemoit's not hard17:55
thebootrooVenemo: when the aim is to have the same look17:56
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-15 16:52:05] [Notice] -NickServ- Information on supybot (account supybot):17:56
lcukthebootroo, what is your app?17:56
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-15 16:52:05] [Notice] -NickServ- Registered : Mar 27 22:06:47 2003 (8 years, 15 weeks, 6 days, 16:45:18 ago)17:56
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-15 16:52:05] [Notice] -NickServ- Last addr  : ~supybot@www522.hostpc.com17:56
thebootrooVenemo: it is, my apps are not simple hello world17:56
*** povbot` is now known as povbot17:56
javispedro(more like unconvenience reasons, because I now always have those top fixed items in the user list)17:56
thebootrooVenemo: its a waste of time17:56
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GeneralAntillesthebootroo, your application shouldn't have the same look across all platforms.17:56
GeneralAntillesThat's just wrong.17:56
thebootrooi need to port my own classes but i'm not sure creating custome QDeclarativeitem will ever give me the same level of UI cohesion i use to have in QWidget/QGRaphicsTIem17:57
DocScrutinizer/whois povbot17:57
Venemothebootroo, it takes a LOT less to code it than to code QWidgets GUIs. at the end you spend barely more time. in return, you get a nice GUI for every platform17:57
lcukGeneralAntilles, if I design a website, it looks the same everywhere17:57
lcuksame with flash things17:57
Venemothebootroo, QDeclarativeItem *IS* a QGraphicsItem17:57
mgedminDocScrutinizer, I've no idea how to tell povbot how to issue messages to nickserv!17:57
lcukactually making things look totally different is not always desired17:57
thebootrooVenemo: false17:57
mgedminI find supybot very user-unfriendly17:57
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thebootrooVenemo: qml syntax is hyper heavy, overall is i need to multiply by 6 the number of files17:58
lcukbut integration with components is of course positive17:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk, a website is not an application.17:58
Stskeepspp17:58
DocScrutinizermgedmin: /msg nickserv help group17:58
Venemothebootroo, ever read a .ui file? compare with that...17:58
lcukGeneralAntilles, HTML517:58
mgedmindid that17:58
thebootrooVenemo: and i find the json-like syntax totally unreadable and hard to browse throught in file more than 50 lines17:58
mgedminyou'd like me to group povbot with my own nickserv account?17:58
lcuktell that to google yahoo microsoft nokia even (WRT etc)17:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk, no, I'm not playing this game this morning. I, personally, think it's a better plan to integrate closely with the look and feel of the platform you're deploying to.17:58
GeneralAntillesOtherwise you're stepping all over its UI conventions17:58
lcukGeneralAntilles, of course17:58
Venemothebootroo, the sooner you get used to it the better17:59
lardmandid I miss the #meego-meeting?17:59
thebootrooGeneralAntilles: not same colors but same behavior, and my custom classes handles the theme changing very well17:59
GeneralAntillesand that's neither good nor desirable.17:59
javispedroGeneralAntilles: but QML does wonders for stepping over UI conventons!17:59
mgedminI could tell povbot to change its nick to xxxtempxxx, change _my_ nick to povbot, issue the nickserv group thing, then change my nick back and change povbot back to povbot17:59
lcukno lardman17:59
DocScrutinizermgedmin: I'd like povbot to register with nickserv17:59
mgedminis that what you'd like me to do?17:59
lcuki did not see the meeting17:59
lardmanlcuk: nor me17:59
lardmannm17:59
DocScrutinizermgedmin: it's not a big thing17:59
DocScrutinizermgedmin: but nice to have17:59
mgedminor maybe there's a nickserv feature/plugin for supybot?17:59
mgedmin"13 Sep 2008 – You can make Supybot identify itself to the network NickServ after it has connected" says google17:59
* javispedro was googling the same =)18:00
thebootrooVenemo: why do i need to get used to something i don't like because it don't get the level i need to dev my apps ? qml is just good for small gadgets not 8 or 10 pages apps full of layouts and complex wigtes18:00
Venemothebootroo, disagreed18:00
* lcuk wonders why angry birds does not use UI themes18:00
thebootrooVenemo: prove it18:00
lcukor any game for that matter :P18:01
DocScrutinizermgedmin: I don't mind if you group the povbot name to whatever account you like18:01
lcukthebootroo, for the third time, what is your app?18:01
DocScrutinizeryou just need to have the credetials of that account ;-)18:01
Venemothebootroo, first, I did port my QGV-based app just by altering my stuff to derive from QDeclarativeItem.18:01
DocScrutinizerif supybot account isn't *your* account then probably you won't group povbot to supybot18:01
mgedminno, supybot is most definitely not *my* account18:02
Venemothebootroo, then I added this to some QML I wrote in a couple of hours and then I wired it up with some minimal code18:02
thebootrooVenemo: how you make QDeclarativeItem support layouting, sizepolicy and proper styling (without pixmaps)18:02
GAN900lcuk, games are a separate issue. :)18:02
DocScrutinizerok, so group povbot to mgedmin account I suggest18:02
lcukGAN900, games are apps18:02
mgedmindoes that also mean I'll have to configure supybot so that it can identify with nickserv?18:03
GAN900lcuk, semantics.18:03
DocScrutinizeryes18:03
javispedrogames have traditionally defined their own look and feel.18:03
mgedminaaaaugh18:03
DocScrutinizeraah nevermind then18:03
javispedromgedmin: that seems relatively easy: https://gitorious.org/supybot/supybot/blobs/d78f7b6ac556293739f7334a56bd5b9f67742516/plugins/Services/config.py18:03
mgedminI'd have preferred a blog post with a HOWTO18:04
lcukDocScrutinizer, having the bot voiced hasn't been needed in any other channel?18:04
javispedrobut either way I don't know why do all of this, this would be the first channel I've joined to that has voiced bots =)18:04
Venemothebootroo, the components take care of that afaik... dunno. I'lI share with you my code when I'm finished. (this app is probably a lot simpler than yours, I chose to port it first because it's one of my simplest)18:04
lcukwhy now18:04
thebootrooVenemo: my apps need proper layouting, not complex parent.height - 10 + me.height / 2 + icon.height ...etc18:04
DocScrutinizerit's just when it doesn't register, any rogue user can snatch the nick and pretend he's povbot18:04
lcuksame has been true for years then18:04
DocScrutinizerand I can't addpovbot to can access list to give it auto-voice18:04
mgedmincan the notional rogue do any damage that way?18:04
Venemothebootroo, mine didn't exactly need it, but if you entrust the proper QML components to do their job, they can do it well18:04
lcukDocScrutinizer, povbot listens, he does not need voice :P18:05
thebootrooVenemo: i have at least 7 differents apps to port, all based on my own set of qwidgets, that i was rewriting in qgraphicsItem, before the announce of n950 not supporting them18:05
DocScrutinizerlcuk: it's not needed, it's just a convenience thing18:05
javispedroVenemo: thebootroo: also, aren't there QML layouts too, like Grid?18:05
lcukfor what? povbot is in many maemo/meego channels18:05
DocScrutinizerlcuk: some sort of highlight18:05
mgedminDocScrutinizer, I will happily follow a HOWTO that I can understand18:05
Venemojavispedro, yes.18:05
mgedmingiving me the git source view of a supybot plugin I don't know if I have or not is not a HOWTO18:05
javispedro=)18:06
thebootroojavispedro: QML layouts sucks, problems with spacing and not way to equally distribute the parent size, it only puts elements side by side18:06
* javispedro thinks Qt layouts suck, but that's another story..18:06
Venemothebootroo, that is untrue18:06
lcukVenemo, do you knkow what thebootroo's app is, I asked a few times but he didn't answer18:06
Venemolcuk, no I do not know.18:06
Venemolcuk, but it must be very complicated seeing the way he talks about it18:06
* lcuk nods18:07
thebootroojavispedro: qlayout can be easily subclassed to do wonderfull layouts, like i did (carrousels, smart spaced grids, flow layouts...°18:07
fiferboythebootroo: QML anchor layouts are really easy and really powerful, as long as your widget knows what size it should be18:07
fiferboyanchor layout margins make spacing equally easy18:07
lcukspeaking of grids and stuff, is it possible to do the grid reordering thing that is on harmattan app grid easily?18:07
DocScrutinizermgedmin: howto: remove povbot so the nick is free, you do /nick povbot, you do /msg nickserv group (assuming you are already registered to nickserv), you do /nick mgedmin, you make povbot join in again and send /msg nickserv ID MySecretPasswordForMgedminAccount18:07
javispedroDocScrutinizer: but povbot needs to authenticate to services and that's the hard part seemingly.18:08
mgedminDocScrutinizer: the last step is the kicker -- how do I make supybot do that nickserv thing?18:08
thebootroofiferboy: anchors sucks because it needs to know who is the previous widget to position against it18:08
DocScrutinizermgedmin: [2011-07-15 17:03:37] <javispedro> mgedmin: that seems relatively easy: https://gitorious.org/supybot/supybot/blobs/d78f7b6ac556293739f7334a56bd5b9f67742516/plugins/Services/config.py18:08
javispedro(note: I never used supybot =) )18:09
mgedmindpkg -L supybot|grep Services -> I at least have the plugin18:09
* DocScrutinizer neither18:09
mgedminDocScrutinizer: <mgedmin> giving me the git source view of a supybot plugin I don't know if I have or not is not a HOWTO18:09
thebootroolcuk: some of my apps : google reader client (full client, not just read a list of news), movies manager and info retriever, spotify client with auto orientation, big text documents reader with infinite scrolling....18:09
mgedminwell, now I know that I have the plugin18:09
mgedminbut the process of enabling a plugin in supybot is lost in the fog of memory18:09
DocScrutinizermgedmin: fair enough18:10
mgedminI remember that it involves much cursing18:10
fiferboythebootroo: Hmm, maybe anchors suck for a very specific kind of interface with lots of programatically generated elements (although I would think you could programatically anchor them without issue) but not for most interfaces18:10
DocScrutinizermgedmin: it's not mandatory for channel maintenance, but for your bot it was a really nice-to-have so it knows nobody else can impersonate it18:10
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mgedminI am inclined to do what you ask me to do18:11
DocScrutinizermgedmin: so I'd appreciate it when you get it sorted, but it's definitely not mandatory18:12
mgedminI'm merely having slight technical difficulties figuring it out18:12
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-15 17:13:07] [Whois] MeeGoBot ist angemeldet als _MeeGoBot_.18:13
DocScrutinizer[2011-07-15 17:13:20] [Whois] infobot ist angemeldet als apt.18:13
DocScrutinizerpovbot.... <void>18:13
povbotDocScrutinizer: Error: "<void>" is not a valid command.18:13
DocScrutinizerLOL18:13
javispedroand that's why it doesn't need voice =)18:14
javispedrojust let it log.18:14
DocScrutinizerunregistered bots have a bit of a suspicious flair18:14
javispedrobtw, what does the meegobot do?18:15
DocScrutinizertomorrow mr random hacker might decide to run another bot with nick povbot and we wouldn't even notice18:15
javispedroevil mr hacker would manage to see all of our miscelaneuous ramblings!18:15
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: replies to bug #118:15
MeeGoBotBug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1 maj, Medium, ---, vivian.zhang, VERI FIXED, [Tracker] tracker-miner-fs should be auto-started after system boot18:15
DocScrutinizerI heard18:15
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: no, evil Mr hacker would kill original povbot18:16
Venemofiferboy, agreed18:16
DocScrutinizerand thus logging18:16
javispedroseems that meegobot is another instance of supybot18:16
javispedroMeeGoBot.... <void>18:17
javispedrohm... or no.18:17
javispedroah, it's mozbot.18:17
* mgedmin can type Lithuanian on his n950 after one day of experiments18:18
* mgedmin couldn't do that on his n900 after how many years now?18:18
javispedroI can't type {} on my N950's vkb18:18
Venemomgedmin, you remapped the hw kbd18:18
mgedminboth hw and vkb18:19
mgedminhere's what I did: http://pastie.org/221824718:19
Venemomgedmin, how did you do that? I want to input öüóőúéáűí18:19
javispedroVenemo: on vkb hold "o"18:19
Venemojavispedro, I can input it with vkb by just choosing Hungarian as the input method18:19
mgedminthe diff is against meegotouch-inputmethodkeyboard git sources, but it applies cleanly to the files in /usr/share/meegotouch/virtual-keyboard/layouts18:19
Venemojavispedro, I want this with hw kbd18:19
mgedminfor hw kbd see the hack I did to hwkbcharloops.xml to make Sym+letter do something18:20
mgedminthe default en_GB section is ignored because the actual language code is just 'en' without the _GB18:20
mgedminoh, and after you edit the .xml, you need to /sbin/initctl restart xsession/meego-im-uiserver18:21
mgedminpeople in #meego-inputmethods are very friendly and helpful18:21
Venemohmm18:21
Venemook, I'll try, wait a moment18:21
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mgedminnote: hwkb config depends on the UI language18:22
DocScrutinizerlcuk: also +V on a bot indicates it's an "official" bot18:22
mgedminvkb config depends on the text input methods you've chosen18:22
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Venemomgedmin, noooo... UI language... nooo18:23
mgedminwhich UI language do you use?18:23
VenemoEnglish18:23
mgedminUS or UK?18:23
DocScrutinizerenglish18:23
Venemodunno, the default18:24
Venemoand I don't want to switch to Hungarian, the translations are usually crap18:24
mgedminI think the default is UK18:24
mgedminI'm curious what is 'gconftool -g /meegotouch/i18n/language' would say if you chose English (US)18:24
DocScrutinizerEnglish (UK)18:24
mgedminbut insufficiently curious to actually try it, because that would require a reboot18:24
mgedmin(boo!)18:24
Venemowhat the heck? harmattan uses gconf?18:25
DocScrutinizeryou bet, no?18:25
DocScrutinizergconftool -g /meegotouch/i18n/language  -> en18:27
DocScrutinizerfor english (UK)18:27
mgedminright18:27
Venemomeh, gconf is obsolete18:27
mgedminwhich is why by default sym+letters do not input any accented versions, because hwkbcharloop.xml defines accents for "en_GB", not "en"18:27
DocScrutinizerVenemo: harmattan is obsolete ;-D18:28
Venemoheh18:29
DocScrutinizerI bet it uses HAL as well ;-)18:29
DocScrutinizerand I heard HAL is at least as obsolete as gconf18:30
Venemoit is a bit less obsolete18:30
DocScrutinizerooh?18:30
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DocScrutinizeris it IBM now? ;-P18:31
DocScrutinizeras gconf is dconf now18:31
Venemo:P18:31
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TronicI bet also uses an obsolete logger, an obsolete init system and a totally obsolete filesystem.18:32
TronicWhat is it with these open-source hippies, always inventing new frameworks to accomplish the same old thing, only now broken in different ways.18:32
mgedminI thought HAL was more obsolete than gconf18:32
DocScrutinizerTronic: lol18:32
DocScrutinizerTronic: couldn't agree more :-)18:33
* DocScrutinizer deletes a line starting with PulseAu18:33
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rm_worknow that my n950 is in-route via DHL, i'm getting more excited :P18:35
* GeneralAntilles was, but now it's stuck in the UK.18:36
rm_worksame18:36
DocScrutinizerdarn18:36
rm_workwas gonna ask if anyone in the US has gotten theirs yet18:36
fiferboyMine is on a loooong slight over, apparently18:36
rm_workand if it was actually 2 day shipping or if it ended up being like week-long shipping18:36
fiferboyLeft UK 8 hours ago and hasn't arrived anywhere yet18:36
rm_workhrm18:36
thebootroowhat is the widget flag to allow auto rotation in harmattan18:36
rm_work7 Processed at EAST MIDLANDS - UK EAST MIDLANDS - UK 06:0618:37
GeneralAntillesIt's actually overnight express.18:37
GeneralAntillesBut DHL is fail as always.18:37
rm_workGeneralAntilles: lol yeah, wow... fail...18:37
rm_workovernight my @$% :P18:37
rm_workGeneralAntilles: your last status?18:37
GeneralAntillesSame as yours, but 06:2218:37
fiferboyOvernight express is next day by noon?18:37
GeneralAntillesEnd of next business day.18:37
GeneralAntillesEverything at DHL is "Express"18:38
rm_workthat'd be.... today18:38
GeneralAntillesYes.18:38
rm_workand since it hasn't left the UK yet...18:38
GeneralAntillesThus the fail.18:38
rm_worklol18:38
rm_workmaybe they just... forgot to mention it left? :P18:38
DocScrutinizerquite possible18:38
fiferboyMine took an extra step after Midlands to London-Heathrow18:38
GeneralAntillesThey probably paid €100. . . .18:38
rm_workdoes FedEx not exist in Finland? >_>18:39
rm_workFedex seems to actually be the one competent shipping company IME18:39
GeneralAntillesUPS > FedEx18:39
rm_workUPS has been about as fail to me :/18:40
GeneralAntillesFedEx is always fail down here.18:40
GeneralAntillesDHL is USUALLY fail (though my sample size is low)18:40
rm_workI've had on multiple occasions 1-3 day shipping turn into 1-week shipping18:40
GeneralAntillesUPS is rarely fail.18:40
rm_workat least they refunded me >_>18:40
rm_workeach time18:40
GeneralAntillesI hardly ever do 3-day UPS anymore.18:40
GeneralAntillesUsually 2-day air or ground.18:40
mgedminok, here we go, let's try to unlock the home screen orientation18:40
rm_work3-day UPS used to be the #1 price-point18:41
mgedminI think I found a simpler way than http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3756&page=218:41
mgedminand by "simpler" I mean without the two mkdirs18:41
mgedmin/usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/style/meegotouchhome.css has an @import "custom.css"; at the end18:41
mgedminso what if I create a custom.css there18:42
mgedminand restart meegotouch-home with /sbin/initctl restart xsession/mthome18:43
* mgedmin tries18:43
mgedminnope, still locked to portrait18:43
mgedminand all my running apps were closed as a side effect18:43
rm_worklol18:43
rm_workhave you tried turning it off and on again? :P18:44
mgedminstill faster than a reboot though18:44
mgedminhmm18:44
rm_workmayhaps you just need to restart something else18:44
rm_workyour theory makes sense18:44
mgedminyour theory is intriguing18:44
rm_worklol18:44
* mgedmin reboots18:44
rm_workmy theory is from IT Crowd (and any IT technician ever) :P18:45
rm_worklol redundant18:45
mgedminmaybe the themes are handled by some other component and restarting mthome is insufficient? reboot restarts everything18:45
mgedminnope, still locked to portrait18:46
mgedminand now my existing ssh session is dead obviously18:46
* mgedmin mkdir -p blanco/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/style/18:48
* mgedmin cd /usr/share/themes18:48
mgedmin(before the mkdir obviously)18:48
* lardman heads home18:48
* mgedmin mv base/meegotouch/meegotouchhome/style/custom.css blanco/me18:48
mgedminegotouch/meegotouchhome/style/meegotouchhome.css18:48
lardmancatch you chaps next week18:48
*** lardman is now known as lardman|gone18:48
* mgedmin /sbin/initctl restart xsession/mthome18:49
mgedminnow it works18:49
DocScrutinizerlardman|gone: enjoy your weekend18:50
DocScrutinizermgedmin: \o/18:50
mgedminI don't like the task switching animation18:50
Venemomgedmin, how about the redraw issue?18:50
mgedmintap on a window, it shrinks to a point and then suddenly takes over the screen18:50
mgedminI'd like to see it expand instead18:50
mgedminwhat redraw issue?  everyone talks about some redraw issue without explaining that it is with screenshots etc18:51
mgedminso far no issues detected18:52
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rlinfati hi, how match time take the option erase-mmc of the flasher on the n950 ?18:54
GAN900mgdemin, yeah, that really irritates me too.18:55
DocScrutinizerrlinfati: it's questionable anybody has tested that option yet18:56
rm_workGAN900: if it isn't out of midlands by tonight when I get off work, i'm going to be seriously lulz at DHL18:56
DocScrutinizerrlinfati: given the fact several users got their devices just 2 days ago, or not yet at all18:56
rlinfatiDocScrutinizer OK, take more of 10-15 min... :S18:57
DocScrutinizerhmm, while flashing a complete new image, there was some 30+ minutes mentioned. I haven't timed it18:59
rlinfatiyeah... the flash process was fast... but was not the secure erase mmc  ...18:59
rlinfatisome bug from fremantle are still in harmattan19:02
rlinfati:S19:02
* rZr apt-get install turntable # http://rzr.online.fr/q/handset19:06
rm_workahhhh dokuwiki19:07
rm_workfavorite wiki software ever, use it every day :P19:08
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rlinfatihow i can login to ovi maps ? :S19:12
DocScrutinizerrlinfati: you need a nokia account (aka yahoo account)19:14
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DocScrutinizeror ovi account (all the same it seems)19:16
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rlinfatimy ovi account do not work :(19:29
rlinfatigrrr i setup and exchange account.... and now i can not add a other imap account :(19:30
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hiemanshustill no tracking number or delivery, I wonder what will happen19:34
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Elleoif anyone's interested in doing some 2d game dev for harmattan I've just built box2d and the box2d-qml wrappers: http://blog.mikeasoft.com/2011/07/15/box2d-and-box2d-qml-for-harmattan/19:53
Elleobox2d-qml looks really handy, it lets you setup all your physics stuff directly within a qml document19:53
cpscottiElleo, jeez.. that url really looks like microsoft at first look :D19:54
Elleoheh19:54
cpscottiElleo, awesome video! :D19:55
Elleothanks :)19:56
cpscottican you drag them to add energy/speed or just touching?19:56
cpscottilike.. on the video, are you clicking on the elements or "throwing" them?19:56
ElleoI'm just touching them, then they're firing off in random directions19:57
Elleobut there's nothing to stop you making it so that you can drag them around and such19:57
Elleothere's another demo that hooks up the accelerometer stuff to move the centre of gravity around19:57
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Elleohttps://gitorious.org/qml-box2d/qml-box2d/blobs/master/examples/accelerometer/accelerometer.qml <-- all very nice and simple19:59
* mgedmin has no energy today to deal with supybot, please remind him some other day20:03
GeneralAntillesrm_work, this really is ridiculous.20:05
GeneralAntillesrm_work, what an enthusiasm drainer.20:05
cpscottiElleo, cool!20:11
cpscottiHey there.. I think I found a quite obvious bug on qml/harmattan-components wrt orientation20:30
Venemonah, who wants to try my first-ever Harmattan game?20:30
cpscottiVenemo, I can try20:31
Venemocpscotti, you prefer .deb or source?20:31
cpscottisource is cooler :D20:31
cpscottias long as it compiles & runs cool with QtSdk20:31
cpscottiotherwise just send the .deb20:32
cpscotti(well, the bug I found is quite obvious. Open QMLComponents demo that comes with the N950, position device in landscape mode; swipe the app to the background; Turn the phone into portrait mode; switch back to the app.. the top StatusBar will be messed up)20:33
cpscotti(anyone else confirms this?)20:34
mgedminwhich QMLComponents demo?  there are two20:34
cpscottiworks with both I think20:34
cpscottilet me check20:35
cpscottiyep20:35
Venemocpscotti, that is a known bug, see http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#Rotation20:35
cpscottiahh cool20:35
Venemoat least, something like that is a known bug :P20:35
cpscottiVenemo, I was searching for it on http://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/ and couldn't find much20:35
mgedminyes, the status bar is kinda messed up20:36
mgedminBTW I've done the hacky theme modification to allow landscape home screens20:36
mgedmindoes this happen with unmodified themes?20:36
Venemocpscotti, http://sources.venemo.net/memory-game.zip20:36
Venemoshould open in Qt Creator and run20:36
Venemoit's still pre-release, some stuff doesn't work 100% well yet, but it's 90% okay now20:37
cpscottiVenemo, the bug I'm talking about is not that one..20:37
Venemomhm20:37
Venemook20:37
VenemoI need to leave now, but I'll get back later and then please tell me what you think of da app :P20:37
cpscottiI will20:37
cpscottimgedmin, I don't know.. I just found this..20:38
mgedminI mean, did you hack your themes to support landscape home screens?20:38
cpscottimgedmin, I tried the most simple possible Harmattan app with orientationLock: Automatic20:38
cpscottino no20:38
mgedminah, ok20:38
cpscottinever touched them20:38
cpscotti(sorry, I didn't get what you mean at first)20:39
mgedminyeah, sorry, I meant this: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=24933&postcount=1420:39
mgedminheh, the wiki at http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#Rotation20:40
mgedminsays "modify themes [...] to support portrait"20:40
mgedminbut portrait is already supported, it's landscape we geeks crave20:40
cpscottiVenemo, haha.. make is going crazy here.. telling me your files com from the future :D lol20:40
mgedminalso, wtf?  there's ~/MyDocs/Music, but .mp3 files received over bluetooth end up in ~/MyDocs/.sounds20:41
Venemocpscotti, open the .pro in Qt Creator (>= 2.2.1), select Harmattan, and you'll be fine20:41
lcukwhere is that icon thingy javispedro did?20:41
cpscottimgedmin, yeah.. got it but no.. I didn't play with that20:41
cpscottiVenemo, it ran fine anyway.. :D Just trying to understand how the game works.;.20:42
cpscottiVenemo, haha! Cool game! :D20:43
cpscottilike it!20:43
Venemothanks cpscotti20:43
Venemoabout how it works: look at memorygameboard.cpp/.h and memorycard.cpp/.h20:43
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: finally20:46
DocScrutinizer15 Jul 2011 19:46:15, CONNECTED, USB100MA, STARTED, 0, FULL, 25, 8, 90, 1091, 4094, -82, -81, -109920:46
cpscottiVenemo, that's what I was doing.. and I got really happy to see I'm not the only one pending to the c++ side of qml :D20:48
cpscottiVenemo, only thing I'd change is the cards color... lol20:48
Venemocpscotti, I'll make that a setting20:48
cpscottibut then again, a color blind's opinion on colours isn't really worth much20:48
Venemocpscotti, plus I'll add an option to allow the user to select pics for the cards20:49
DocScrutinizermgedmin: the joys of a concept aiming agnostics of any directory structure20:49
cpscottiVenemo, you know.. Maybe I'd just talk to some graphic designer wanting to do free stuff for him to choose pics & colors20:49
DocScrutinizerTHE worst part of iPhone ever - now proudly introduced with harmattan20:50
Venemomhm20:50
VenemoDocScrutinizer, I wouldn't worry much, sounds like a good filemanager is in order20:50
mgedminwhen I first did ls MyDocs and saw Music, Videos etc., I was so happy "they" got rid of those .sounds/.images hidden directories20:51
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mgedminand now I'm feeling betrayed ;)20:51
DocScrutinizerVenemo: no filemanager of any acme qualities can replace a filepicker requester for attachment selection in mail, just to choose an arbitrary example20:51
Venemomhmm20:52
Venemoanyway, I need to leave now20:52
Venemowill be back later20:52
* lcuk imagines Venemo putting on his superhero costume and cape20:52
Venemolcuk, http://sources.venemo.net/memory-game.zip if you're interested :)20:53
DocScrutinizerbeating up some UX designers in HEL? ;-D20:53
Venemoso, brb20:53
mgedminoh, oh, oh, I know what I want for my n95020:54
mgedmintelepathy-salut20:54
mgedminor a qr code reader20:55
DocScrutinizeriOS V-dunno now finally comes *with* C&P, harmattan now finally *got rid* of C&P20:55
mgedminwhat do you mean got rid?20:55
mgedminit works just fine in Notes20:55
DocScrutinizeroh why, is it always the crap details that get adopted by Nokia20:56
mgedminto annoy you personally, I'm sure :)20:56
DocScrutinizeryeah20:56
MekC&P works just fine in any text field I've tried it in so far...20:56
DocScrutinizeriPhone at least one some of the solotmachine datepickers got week-of-day. In QML those are consequently omitted20:57
DocScrutinizerMek: what's worth a C&P in text input boxes when it doesn't work on browser and terminal?20:58
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Mekokay, yeah, not being able to copy from a browser is indeed a bit annoying20:59
DocScrutinizerC&P a dbus-send cmdline from wiki to shell ;-)20:59
lcukmost frustrating part of the swipe UX is that once you swipe something to the side20:59
lcuktrying to swipe back to where you were is not possible20:59
lcuklosing flow20:59
DocScrutinizermy notion is unchanged, I prefer the N900 every single day21:01
DocScrutinizerN9 is not, and never will be, the device for me21:02
DocScrutinizernevertheless I'm willing to help improve it for those who love the concept better than I do21:02
VenemoN9 may be not, but N950 maybe mine21:02
Venemothanks DocScrutinizer21:03
DocScrutinizertimy details like Fn-BS give me hope21:06
DocScrutinizertiny*21:06
DocScrutinizeror ctl-Q21:07
DocScrutinizera faint twinkle of MHD awesomeness21:08
VenemoMHD?21:12
DocScrutinizerand obviously with type-to-search in any of the 3 basic screens together with Fn-BS to reach taskswitcher basic screen there's even a stub of a better way than in fremantle to start arbitrary apps via kbd only21:12
DocScrutinizermodified hildon desktop21:12
ieatlinti'm like swipe21:13
ieatlintbleh, i'm also good english talk person21:14
DocScrutinizerbasic GUI / MMI design rule: don't make the user constantly swap between kbd and mouse. Ergo plan for kbd shortcuts for all operations that are usually done via mouse, and possibly even plan for a vkbd to type the texts via mouse that you usually would enter via kbd21:16
DocScrutinizerwe actually HAVE a vkbd for "mouse", what's missing is full support for hw-kbd accelerator key shortcuts so you don't need to use "mouse"21:17
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DocScrutinizerone of the first Apple MacIntosh testers stated: "My keaboard was defect for a week. I got more work done during this week by only using this new thing, the mouse, and the virtual keyboard, than I usually get done on my other PC that has keyboard only"21:23
DocScrutinizerI wonder what the same guy would say today, about N900 when his touchscreen was defect21:25
DocScrutinizerprobably not "I got more work done on this awesome N900 hw keyboard alone than on an iPhone with virtual keyboard"21:26
Venemomhm21:27
ieatlintthat depends on if he needed to type a lot of non-alphanumeric chars21:28
VenemoDocScrutinizer, also, would be nice the GUI wouldn't flip back and forth between portrait and landscape, especially when the keyboard is slid out21:28
Venemoit just disturbs the natural flow on my usecase21:28
Venemoanyway, will be back later21:28
lcuk" error while loading shared libraries: [/usr/lib/libfoo.so.1] failed to map segment from shared object: Operation not permitted"21:32
lcukis this aegis?21:32
lcukit began after I copied binary over the top of installed one21:33
Mekyeah, if sha1 doesn't match it will refuse to load it21:33
lcukwhere is the sha1 stored and how can I update it?21:33
Mek(doesn't match with what was in the .deb that is installed)21:33
lcukyes I can understand that logically, ta for fragment of info21:34
* lcuk will just build a later package for now21:34
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dm8tbrlcuk: you'll probably need to also rename the package as you can't replace signed packages IIRC21:34
lcukdm8tbr, it is my own package21:35
dm8tbrlcuk: aaah, ok :)21:35
lcuki installed the file originally with dpkg -i21:35
lcukthen was updating just the file instead of new package21:35
lcukit is libliqbase21:35
lcukI was testing the calendar on the capacitive21:36
lcuk:)21:36
dm8tbr:D21:36
dm8tbrhow is it?21:36
lcukwell if I could run the calendar (this bug with loading the library now exists..) I would give a screenshot21:36
DocScrutinizerlcuk: yes, this is the security of aegis. You love it, no?21:37
DocScrutinizer:-P21:37
lcuki actually do not mind21:37
lcukif the restriction is merely relating to installed packages21:37
lcukI will simply use "make; sudo make install" directly on the device :P21:38
* lcuk shrugs21:38
DocScrutinizerhmm, fair enough21:38
lcukit is similar to the windows protection stuff21:38
DocScrutinizerjust it breaks all the normal procedures and habits of the average hacker21:39
lcukyeah21:39
DocScrutinizerwhich is not what a devel device is meant for21:39
lcukit does show reason why qt-creator has reverted to always installing a package21:39
lcukwhen debugging21:39
lcukDocScrutinizer, when I got the device, happily amongst the first package I installed was "apt-get install build-essential"21:40
lcukthat to me makes it a good device :)21:40
DocScrutinizer:nod:21:40
DocScrutinizermy first package was bash, as you know21:40
DocScrutinizerand that experience made me somewhat hate the device21:41
lcukecho "deb http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ harmattan/sdk free non-free" > /etc/apt/repos.d/sdktools.lst21:41
lcukapt-get update21:41
lcukapt-get install build-essential21:41
DocScrutinizerwon't give a *real* shell either21:42
lcukwow, when I got the n810 I wouldn't have known what that meant, by the n900 I knew it but didn't really know why21:42
lcuknow it is almost natural to read scripts21:42
* lcuk feels his beard getting longer21:43
rm_workGeneralAntilles: lol yeah it's ridiculous but i'm not letting it get me down :P21:43
DocScrutinizeranyway let me try that echo thing, I doubt it will work21:43
mgedminwhat tools are available in that harmattan sdk repo?21:44
mgedmingcc/binutils/etc?21:44
lcukmg, have a peek around21:44
mgedminhttp://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/Introduction.html is not friendly to peekers, seems like21:44
mgedminand I forgot the apt repo structure21:44
lcukhttp://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/21:45
mgedminthat's a bazillion alphabetical directories21:46
mgedminis there a Packages.gz I could skim?21:46
DocScrutinizer-sh: can't create /etc/apt/repos.d/sdktools.lst: nonexistent directory21:46
mgedminDocScrutinizer it's sources.d, not repos.d21:47
DocScrutinizerhmm, maybe I shouldn't C&P that ruthlessly21:47
DocScrutinizeranyway I only got sources.list.d/21:48
mgedmind'oh!21:48
* mgedmin fail at correcting21:48
ieatlintand the repos in sources.list.d/ are oddly password protected21:49
mgedminno vim in harmattan-dev, which is actually not that surprising...21:50
mgedminand no sudo, so lcuk's grand 'sudo make install' plan ain't gonna work21:51
ieatlintthere is vi21:51
mgedminyeah, busybox vi21:51
DocScrutinizerwell, the echo cmd to create sdktools.lst worked21:51
ieatlintyeah, that's good enough for me21:51
DocScrutinizerI wonder what it got me though21:52
mgedminyou got an additional repository and now can apt-get install additional stuff21:54
mgedminsuch as sqlite321:54
DocScrutinizerstill no bash, no mc. I refused to learn either vi or emacs since 20 years, won't stat with it to match Nokia's idea of what's an appropriate shell environment to do some work21:54
mgedminor strace21:54
mgedmindevelopment tools mostly, as far as I can see21:54
DocScrutinizerstrace :-)21:54
lcukmgedmin, it is the sdk repository used in scratchbox21:55
lcukeach version of maemo had same21:55
lcukwonderful resource :)21:55
mgedminI also remember the fun people had after running apt-get dist-upgrade with the sdk repository enabled21:55
lcukneat21:56
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DocScrutinizerummm, maybe I want to rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/sdktools.lst then?21:57
mgedminbetter refrain from dist-upgrade21:57
DocScrutinizerI always did :-D21:57
mgedminjust having those tools available for installation shouldn't hurt21:57
mgedminlcuk, if you find a sudo package, please share; I can't stand this devel-sh business21:58
mgedmins/devel-sh/devel-su21:58
lcukDocScrutinizer, yeah :$22:00
lcukcurious22:00
lcukharmattan does not like fullscreen/full resolution it has the tearing22:01
lcukhttps://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1308422:01
MeeGoBotBug 13084 maj, Medium, ---, carsten, ASSI, [n900] Horizontal tearing with xvimagesink22:01
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javispedroah, logs to read!22:12
* javispedro is happy22:12
javispedroalso, no work to do this weekend :)22:12
* javispedro puts on scratchbox wizard hat and robes22:12
ieatlintno work for me this weekend either :)22:19
ieatlinti can play with the n950 and start moving on the app :)22:20
Mekhmm, downloading maps seems to be broken on my n950... it downloads a file, but then just sits at 100% forever without doing anything...22:22
DocScrutinizerMek: heard it download a tarbal but fails to expand it22:23
DocScrutinizerhttp://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#Map_loader22:24
javispedroit worked for me22:25
javispedrothe tarball was 30MiB thoug22:25
javispedroh22:25
ieatlinthaha, i just tried to download a map on it, and it sat there at maybe 100kbps for a couple min, then gave me an error saying my connection is "too slow"22:26
ieatlint(it's on wifi with a ~15mbit uplink)22:26
Mekhmm, yeah, a 5MB map download works fine, but a 100MB one doesn't...22:27
ieatlintyeah, well, my local map package is 126.4mb22:28
ieatlintin my tests, the map application is nice, works well at finding places22:29
ieatlintbut the data is maybe 2 years old22:30
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Venemolcuk, do you have a couple of minutes for me?22:52
lcuknot really, i am debugging something22:52
Venemoyou'll miss out the first harmattan game :(22:53
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Venemomgedmin, you here?22:58
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