IRC log of #europython for Tuesday, 2012-07-03

« Monday, 2012-07-02 Index Wednesday, 2012-07-04 »
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juD2kMorning, Europython!09:50
juD2kI'm at Django under Massive Loads09:50
juD2k... it was a close thing between that and Tornado In Depth09:50
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zerokjuD2k: i was first sitting in the openstack talk but then still decided to switch :-)09:55
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juD2kzerok: I went to the OpenStack talk last year. I guess I would be interested to see how far they've come in the past year.09:57
zerokthis is so weird, not being the only person posting stuff during a conference on google+10:00
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gambino sound on "Track Spaghetti" :(10:08
gambiI'm thankful that you guys are live streaming the event, but I don't think it's actually working … either no sound, or no stream at all.10:12
gambiawesome, thx for fixing the audio! :)10:21
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mgedminhe's speaking really fast10:45
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davidcramer_morning all10:47
davidcramer_juD2k, is it good? room was full so we are chiling outside10:47
ambvit's fine, basically a wide view on how you should construct your app10:49
ambve.g. that Django doesn't do connection pooling, that you should do sharding, caching, etc.10:49
ambvone thing I disagree with is that he said queries should be triggered from templates whenever possible10:50
juD2kdavidcramer_ - talk was great.10:50
ambvwhich in my experience makes the whole website somewhat upredictable, especially given how awesome template debugging is in Django.10:51
mgedminthe main point was not doing the query at all if the template is not going to use the results10:51
juD2k(sorry) :)10:51
davidcramer_connection pooling isnt that useful10:51
davidcramer_:)10:51
davidcramer_i was hoping to come troll the talk tbh10:51
davidcramer_we have a monkey patch that raises an exception if you execute a query in a template10:51
davidcramer_so i completely agree it should be the *opposite*10:51
ambvdavidcramer_: +110:51
davidcramer_we also dont do template fragment caching or any of that stuff10:51
davidcramer_we make it a priority of maintaining all of that logic in real code10:52
juD2kdavidcramer_: I think the speaker would have kinda liked trolling - he practically asked for it at the start :)10:52
davidcramer_:)10:52
davidcramer_ya10:52
juD2kplus he mentioned disqus twice ;)10:52
davidcramer_its funny because disqus is bigger than anyone else using django and we dont even shard our primary data yet10:52
juD2kSounds like you're ignoring *all* of his main points!10:53
juD2kWould have loved to have you in here.10:53
* mgedmin too10:53
juD2kYou should barge in through the back door.10:53
davidcramer_haha10:53
davidcramer_who was the guy giving the talk?10:53
davidcramer_i didnt recognize his name10:53
juD2kxof10:53
juD2kHe did a talk at djangocon.eu10:54
juD2k... he's from pgExperts, or PostgresExperts or something.10:54
davidcramer_oh10:54
davidcramer_i thought i recognized his face10:54
davidcramer_i saw him talking about dns when i attempted to jump in10:54
davidcramer_and im like hmmmmm10:54
juD2kI'm going to his PostgreSQL training this afternoon.10:55
davidcramer_ya pgx guys are crazy smart10:55
juD2kI've just written 2 pages of 11pt notes in this talk10:58
zerokjuD2k: i'm waiting for the slides ^_^10:59
zerokluckily they looked rather verbose10:59
ambvnot really.10:59
ambvthey're a great agenda of what he went through but I guess they're not that useful without the narration.10:59
juD2kzerok: Almost everything was in the slide bullets, but there were a couple of things he talked about that were off-slide.11:00
zerokjuD2k: true11:00
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juD2kJuju talk now.11:54
juD2kHope the video of the Spotify talk is good :)11:54
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mgedminis the EuroPython-Fast network 802.11a or 802.11n?12:04
mishok13802.11FAST12:05
floxit's just workin12:06
* mgedmin realizes he has no idea how to figure it out from iwconfig/iw/var/log/syslog/any other linux tools12:07
floxdmesg says "en1: 802.11d country code set to 'IT'."12:08
fijalmgedmin: iwconfig says so while you're connected12:10
mishok13802.11FAST12:10
mgedminiwconfig says "IEEE 802.11abgn"12:11
mishok13ooops, sorry about that12:11
mgedminI can also see frequency (5.18 GHz) and bitrate (48 Mb/s)12:11
fijalso it can't be a or g12:11
mgedminIIRC both 802.11a and 802.11n can use 5 GHz channels12:11
fijaler12:12
fijalb or g12:12
fijalsorry12:12
fijalgood question12:12
mgedminonly 48 Mb/s hints at 802.11a12:14
torbjorn__spotify: "20k tracks added every day" .. I wonder how many tracks are removed each day12:19
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mishok13judging from my spotify account, at least the same amount :)12:22
mishok13erm, PHP is the right tool for the job because there's already PHP code? I don't think that makes much sense12:26
davidcramer_oo someone is advocating php12:27
davidcramer_+1 php is useful12:27
davidcramer_i will explain how that is true while explaining how sql > mongodb :)12:27
juD2kdavidcramer_ You in the juju talk?12:27
davidcramer_juD2k, becoming a better programmer12:27
`fox`lol12:27
juD2kAh, we had a brief PHP mention. Not sure it was a recommendation.12:27
davidcramer_oh12:27
davidcramer_damn12:27
mishok13350MB of XML is nothing12:29
mishok13i see your 350MB and raise you ~300GB XML12:29
mishok13http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Planet.osm12:29
davidcramer_is this the juju stuff?12:29
mishok13nope, Spotify12:29
davidcramer_oh12:30
davidcramer_i wonder how much xml data we process a day12:30
davidcramer_we get quite a bit12:30
davidcramer_mitsuhiko, are you in one of the rooms?12:34
mishok13nope, Spotify12:38
mishok13goddamnit :(12:39
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mishok13i'm getting confused, where's Python actually used at Spotify?12:47
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Jerubdoes anyone know who to talk to to get a virtual machine running on the intranet?12:54
Jerubi've just discovered that python is so awful on osx i need to get a linux machine in order to do the things i want to do.12:54
davidcramer_whats the prob with it on os x?12:54
mitsuhikodavidcramer_: spotify talk12:55
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Jerubvirtualenv doesn't work on the system python because of reasons. installing a mpkg of python2.7.3 got me venv working, and now i realise i don't have the 50gb xcode already downloaded and installed, so i can't run gcc to build extension modules, so i cant't install anything into the venv properly if it has a build_ext step12:56
mishok13Jerub, there's a gcc-tools collection made by Kenneth Reitz12:56
mishok13it's only 200 MB AFAIR and doesn't require you to enter credit card details12:57
Jerubthanks, i'll try that.12:57
mishok13here's the link -- https://github.com/kennethreitz/osx-gcc-installer/12:57
mishok13but yeah, OS X is pretty awful for Python development in my experience12:58
* davidcramer_ shrugs12:58
davidcramer_nearly everyone i know uses it every day12:58
davidcramer_:)12:58
Jerubhow thrilling for you. pardon me while i do things i shouldn't have to do.12:59
mishok13that's a flamewar material there, not getting into this http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pnKObAvS3Pw/Tw4lxJeDXiI/AAAAAAAAAmc/JrKWnADRNFc/s150/cop-out-nope.gif13:00
davidcramer_oh, my point was simply that it works just fine13:01
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`fox`what a crappy talk, but Massa is really funny13:03
mitsuhikoJerub: you should have to install a compiler on a system before you want to use it for developing13:06
mitsuhikoa compiler does not belong onto a customer device13:06
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mitsuhikodavidcramer_: where are you?13:11
davidcramer_mitsuhiko, outside13:12
mitsuhikodavidcramer_: moving there13:12
Jerubi wouldn't need a compiler if i didn't have to install a new python for virtualenv.13:13
mitsuhikoJerub: you don't have to13:14
davidcramer_ya i use system python13:14
mitsuhikoJerub: the only reason gcc-installer is necessary is because it wants to use install_name_tool13:14
mitsuhikovirtualenv could just download that independently13:14
Jerubi did, and it failed to work on my system due to a problem with the way that only .pyc and .pyo files are found under the system python13:15
Jerubhave you read distutils/__init__.py ? it's terrifying13:15
mitsuhikoas a matter of fact i did :(13:16
davidcramer_i tried13:16
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davidcramer_does anyone here use appengine?13:40
davidcramer_those stats seem insane13:40
davidcramer_i dont know of any companies that run on it13:40
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mitsuhikodavidcramer_: wat stats?13:46
davidcramer_https://twitter.com/mrtopf/status/22010043389144268913:47
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juD2kHello all15:26
davidcramer_hows postgres15:26
juD2kThis afternoon I shall mostly be trolling about mysql vs. postgres15:26
davidcramer_:P15:26
davidcramer_mysql is better remember15:26
juD2kdavidcramer_: Not quite started yet.15:26
juD2knot as good as mongodb15:26
davidcramer_its the pgx guy right?15:26
davidcramer_ask him why pg has no upsert15:26
juD2kyup15:26
davidcramer_or why they dont allow selective replication15:27
davidcramer_or uhh15:27
davidcramer_"why is slony better than the builtin replication"15:27
davidcramer_:)15:27
juD2kdavidcramer_: One day, you're going to look back on this and think to yourself: was I really like that?15:28
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davidcramer_nop15:29
davidcramer_:)15:29
juD2k;)15:29
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hyneko/15:34
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flox\o hynek15:45
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juD2kI'm in Postgres training. I have Wifi (hey look, I'm in this chatroom) but web requests aren't working :(15:58
davidcramer_juD2k, i had that problem too15:58
davidcramer_eventually it seemed to work15:58
zerokjuD2k: i just enabled my vpn and it started to be more reliable15:59
ambvit's all DNS16:01
ambvswitch to 8.8.8.8 or equivalent and it's all dandy16:02
davidcramer_i did that and it helped a bit16:02
davidcramer_but was still iffy for a while16:02
davidcramer_dns was working fine for me though16:02
davidcramer_it was odd16:02
ambvstuff caches DNS16:02
davidcramer_ya it could have been that16:02
ambvChrome has it's own caching DNS built-in16:02
hynekit isn't just DNS16:06
hynekthere is some forced proxies stuff going on16:06
hynekI could resolve and ping but not access port 8016:06
hynekswitching on proxy auto discovery made everything work for me. dunnio whether they fixed it by now16:07
hynek(that's also why vpn may help)16:08
mgedminwhee foo.py: class Foo: def bar(self): import foo; reload(foo); self.__class__ = Foo; self.do_bar() <-- Python White Magic16:09
davidcramer_you can do that?16:09
davidcramer_OMGOMGOMGOMG16:09
mgedminunintentional great quote: "I wanted to jump to a conclusion"16:09
mgedmin(about skipping some slides due to fears of running out of time)16:09
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davidcramer_^^ hope that is me tomorrow morning16:10
davidcramer_i think i have almost 110 slides16:10
davidcramer_havent even gone through my talk to se ehow long it is16:11
juD2kthanks guys for your help.16:11
davidcramer_i just made the assumption on the slides16:11
hynekjuD2k: did you make it work?16:12
mgedmin"Guido wrote a reload function for modules that really almost works"16:13
juD2khynek: no :(16:15
TheSheep"If it doesn't have to be correct answer, then any answer will do"16:16
mgedmin"if def bar() appear twice in the same file, I see it" -- well, actually no16:18
mgedminbut pyflakes/pylint warns about it at least16:19
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hynekjuD2k: does ping 8.8.8.8 work for you?16:22
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juD2khynek: Yeah, 8.8.8.8 was working for me.16:29
juD2k... or rather - I can use 8.8.8.8 for DNS, then it doesn't get any further :(16:30
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mollerstrandjuD2k: I had trouble opening connections to port 80 earlier. are you seeing the same thing?16:31
juD2kYeah, I think it's a port 80 thing.16:31
ambvhynek: ping 8.8.8.8 should work16:32
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hynekmollerstrand: in OS X, it helped to switch on "Auto detect proxies"16:32
hyneksmells like a forced http proxy16:32
ambvare you sure it isn't a rogue one?16:34
juD2kI turned on detect proxies, but it didn't make any difference.16:34
juD2kI might reconnect and see what happens.16:34
hynekambv: rogue dhcp again? i don't think so16:35
hynekjuD2k: try "renew lease"16:35
davidcramer_there was a dhcp problem for me this morning16:35
ambvnot a DHCP, a privacy violating proxy ;)16:36
* mollerstrand connects to a secure VPN16:39
hyneki think vpn is a good idea16:41
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hynek^^16:42
mishok13uhm, taking away all the content from slides is probably taking it a bit too far16:42
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juD2kI managed to connect to my company VPN, but it still didn't work - which was weird :)16:48
hynekjuD2k: maybe you have stale proxy settings now that you can't reach anymore ;)16:50
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juD2khynek: urg17:02
mgedmintelnet www.google.com 80 ;)17:04
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juD2ktelnet www.google.com 8017:05
juD2kTrying 173.194.35.148...17:05
juD2k...17:05
juD2k...17:05
juD2k...17:05
juD2kAh well - back to postgres.17:05
juD2kLack of web hasn't got in the way so far.17:05
juD2kHey - I have web - this is awesome!17:08
juD2k:D17:08
hynek\o/17:09
d0ugaljuD2k: what was it?17:12
juD2kd0ugal: Absolutely no idea.17:13
juD2kI'm actually going through my VPN. Afraid to disable it to find out if I need it or not :)17:14
d0ugallol17:15
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d0ugaljuD2k: https://github.com/Xof/xact/17:23
d0ugaljuD2k: It was you that I spoke to about that right?17:23
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juD2kd0ugal: Yes17:26
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davidcramer_we have some similar hacks at disqus17:29
davidcramer_which is whats going in our disqus-postgres stuff17:29
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d0ugaldavidcramer_: is that public?17:31
davidcramer_not yet17:31
davidcramer_i could show you the code17:31
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davidcramer_we just havent gone through the process of finishing it up yet to OS it17:32
davidcramer_http://pastie.org/private/zlzlwyglfwggppnblwadzw17:32
davidcramer_thats the feature list17:32
davidcramer_its basically the "fuuu transactions" and "fuuu we use pgbouncer" features17:32
d0ugalyup17:32
d0ugalcool17:32
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d0ugalsounds like juD2k is being harassed by a recruiter18:11
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d0ugalAnybody else fancy getting the pizza tomorrow?18:12
juD2kd0ugal: Yeah - let's do pizza18:16
juD2kMmmm. Pizza18:16
d0ugal\o/18:16
juD2k(>18:16
juD2k(That was meant to be a slice of pizza - maybe)18:16
jezdezd0ugal: +1 pizza18:18
brutassejuD2k: just get a whole one -> O18:19
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d0ugaljuD2k: 🍕18:19
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juD2kd0ugal: How did you do that?18:26
juD2kbrutasse: Hello! How's the jazz?18:26
d0ugaljuD2k: cmd + alt + t, then search18:26
brutassejuD2k: I haven't heard any jazz yet but the concerts are awesome18:27
juD2kReally? I thought it was a jazz festival?18:28
* d0ugal is probably to blame for that18:28
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brutassethat's the name, yes. but if you look at the programme you see all types of music18:28
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juD2kJust added to favourites: 💩18:37
ambvwhat was that?18:37
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TheSheepa rectangle18:38
d0ugaljuD2k: xn--ls8h.la18:39
d0ugaljuD2k: Works more correctly in safari18:39
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juD2kEr, what?18:40
TheSheephttp://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f4a9/index.htm18:40
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juD2kambv: Sorry, I think it may be a LimeChat/Textual IRC client thing.18:40
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d0ugaljuD2k: It's a mac thing.18:40
ambvI see a smiling poo18:40
ambvWTF18:40
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juD2kWhy on earth is there a unicode character for 'smiling poo'?18:41
juD2kOh sorry - I meant 'pile of poo'18:42
TheSheepthere are unicode characters for worse things18:42
TheSheephttp://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f3e9/index.htm18:42
d0ugalTheSheep: not sure I should look.18:43
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ambvyou should.18:44
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TheSheephttp://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f46f/index.htm18:44
TheSheephttp://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f47e/index.htm18:44
TheSheepthose are some of my favs18:44
TheSheephttp://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f5fe/index.htm18:46
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TheSheepnote that is no silhuettes of other countires18:46
TheSheepthere*18:46
d0ugalrandom.18:48
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juD2kdavidcramer_: Just getting a lowdown of different postgres replication tools.18:53
juD2kslony doesn't do DDL replication ;)18:54
DamianzPersonally I think that's a good thing18:56
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jezdezPSF members meeting in 5 mins at Room Pizza Napoli FYI19:25
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d0ugaldavidcramer_: I've got an adaptor if you need one tomorrow23:25
d0ugalstill need*23:25
ambvPRIME23:42
ambvNUMBERS23:42
ambvOVERFLOW23:42
ambvOverflowError: Python int too large to convert to C long23:43
ambv;)23:43
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