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Tartley | lac: hi you there? | 11:04 |
---|---|---|
lac_ | yes | 11:05 |
lac_ | Now how do we start a meeting? | 11:05 |
lac_ | I forget the syntax | 11:06 |
Tartley | ah, I'll look at the last one | 11:06 |
Tartley | #startmeeting | 11:06 |
Tartley | PRESENT | 11:06 |
lac_ | PRESENT | 11:07 |
Tartley | I guess on reflection that implies we should have ended meeting yesterday | 11:07 |
lac_ | #endmeeting | 11:07 |
lac_ | #endmeeting | 11:07 |
lac_ | Now we will find out if they have nested scope or not. :) | 11:07 |
Tartley | har | 11:08 |
lac_ | #startmeeting | 11:08 |
lac_ | PRESENT | 11:08 |
Tartley | PRESENT | 11:08 |
Tartley | before we start | 11:08 |
Tartley | I found one talk back at number 17 | 11:08 |
Tartley | Deniable encryption | 11:08 |
Tartley | I don't remember discussing this one - maybe I was absent | 11:09 |
lac_ | Yes. I was to ask you the same thing | 11:09 |
Tartley | and I don';t have a champion assigned for it | 11:09 |
Tartley | ah | 11:09 |
Tartley | alright, | 11:09 |
lac_ | I don't have it on my list. | 11:09 |
lac_ | I think we missed it in that 2 talks were retracted, not one | 11:09 |
Tartley | ok, we just haven't done it then. | 11:09 |
Tartley | no problem | 11:09 |
lac_ | well, not any more, at any rate | 11:09 |
lac_ | begin with it? | 11:10 |
lac_ | and what's the count, you vs me? | 11:10 |
lac_ | Also did q take the OpenERP and the Object Framework talks? | 11:10 |
Tartley | yes, q did take those | 11:11 |
Tartley | or was assigned them, at any rate | 11:11 |
Tartley | I realised last night that I still had the old 'withdrawn' talks on my tally | 11:11 |
Tartley | and they were yours, I believe, so you're number is lower today | 11:11 |
Tartley | than it was | 11:11 |
Tartley | looks like this: | 11:11 |
Tartley | lac14 | 11:12 |
Tartley | tartley20 | 11:12 |
Tartley | qwright & pinner4 | 11:12 |
Tartley | 5 | 11:12 |
Tartley | qwright2 | 11:12 |
Tartley | pinner3 | 11:12 |
Tartley | moreati1 | 11:12 |
Tartley | ignore the ' 5' | 11:12 |
lac_ | ah, I have serious catching up to do | 11:12 |
lac_ | Python Sucks and Mashing up the Guardian are? | 11:13 |
Tartley | pinner and moreati respectively | 11:13 |
Tartley | now that john has added 'champion' as a visible field on the talks overview page | 11:13 |
Tartley | I'm hoping I won't have to maintain this separate table of champion names now | 11:14 |
lac_ | I put in all of mine this morning | 11:14 |
Tartley | I'll make sure info from it is completely transfered into the django data | 11:14 |
lac_ | but these are the ones left over, which I don't think are mine. Was hoping we could check that ... | 11:14 |
Tartley | sure... | 11:14 |
lac_ | I also have IronClad, which I don't remember discussing, but think we did, and Semantic Web, which I remember discussing, and not wanting. | 11:15 |
Tartley | ah, yes | 11:15 |
lac_ | as a champion, as a talk I am fine with it. | 11:15 |
Tartley | right | 11:16 |
Tartley | I was going over the old IRC logs | 11:16 |
Tartley | we did agree to take one or two while discussing them, and then fail to honor those suggestions once or twice when it came down to the 'final' assignments at the end of meetings | 11:16 |
Tartley | i think there | 11:17 |
lac_ | ok, so we should have those? | 11:17 |
Tartley | there's no harm done, so long as we're all singing off the same hymnsheet | 11:17 |
lac_ | because I can take them. | 11:17 |
Tartley | well | 11:17 |
Tartley | I know william who submitted IronClad - I see him every day | 11:17 |
Tartley | so it might make sense for me to take that | 11:17 |
lac_ | aha. yes. might have made sense for you to take the iron python ones, too, actually | 11:18 |
lac_ | how did I end up with them? | 11:18 |
lac_ | Not that talking to fuzzyman is a chore, but ... | 11:18 |
Tartley | I think it happend when we just said 'you take the first 8, I | 11:18 |
Tartley | 'll do the next 8 | 11:18 |
Tartley | ' | 11:18 |
lac_ | aha! now that makes sense! | 11:18 |
Tartley | we skipped over one or two obvious reassignments that had been negotiated earlier | 11:18 |
Tartley | alright then | 11:19 |
Tartley | so I'll do ironclad and the ironpython ones... I'll mark that now | 11:19 |
lac_ | Ok, then I had better take Nicolas. I have serious catching up to do here. | 11:19 |
Tartley | heh | 11:19 |
Tartley | well | 11:20 |
lac_ | Ok, more administrative stuff. | 11:21 |
lac_ | Many people have co-presenters. | 11:21 |
lac_ | I would like a Django form for them to use to add a new speaker. | 11:22 |
lac_ | so I don't have to collect the info from them and cut and paste it in. | 11:22 |
lac_ | They seem to have a key LastName_Firstname | 11:22 |
lac_ | which makes me wonder what happens if we have 2 Smith_John s presenting | 11:23 |
Tartley | hmmm, fair enough | 11:23 |
Tartley | does django not automatically give us a form to add a new speaker - ah, but they don't have admin access | 11:24 |
lac_ | but I think we can mostly just export the http://www.europython.eu/submission/admin/submission/speaker/xxx form | 11:24 |
Tartley | right, yeah | 11:24 |
lac_ | where xxx is a number | 11:25 |
lac_ | this will, however, break the number is the same as the talk convention | 11:25 |
Tartley | i don't mind that. so long as the talk has the 1:N relationship to speakers | 11:25 |
lac_ | so I suppose we should put in a request to zeth or john or nickbooker about this | 11:25 |
Tartley | which it does have fields for | 11:25 |
lac_ | yes, but the submission form didn't so we have to add speakers by hand | 11:26 |
Tartley | right | 11:26 |
lac_ | and we can only add speakers after we have filled in the speaker form for them | 11:26 |
Tartley | understood | 11:26 |
lac_ | so I was hoping to let the co-presenters tell their friends to go add themselves | 11:27 |
Tartley | yep, i follow | 11:27 |
lac_ | Ok, so anything more we need to ask for while we are asking? | 11:27 |
Tartley | i don't think so. I presume it's very obvious to them that some of the speaker fields are derived values, so don't need to be prompted for (eg width / height / from submission ) | 11:29 |
lac_ | Ok, I wil ask that now. europython-improve? europython-talks? | 11:30 |
Tartley | hmmmm talks i guess | 11:30 |
lac_ | ok | 11:30 |
lac_ | ok sent | 11:37 |
lac_ | time to start? | 11:37 |
Tartley | ok then | 11:37 |
lac_ | TOPIC: deniable Encryption | 11:37 |
lac_ | The english on this one needs work. | 11:38 |
Tartley | interesting topic | 11:38 |
Tartley | right | 11:39 |
lac_ | He comes from a language that doesn't make the distinction between 'a thing' and 'the thing' and | 11:39 |
lac_ | 'thing' | 11:39 |
lac_ | so he mostly just leaves them out. :) | 11:39 |
Tartley | as one would | 11:39 |
lac_ | So I can take it, and work on the English, but not in the middle of this meeting because this sort of thing takes thought. | 11:40 |
Tartley | ok then, I think otherwise it seems fairly sound | 11:41 |
lac_ | you do a little fixing, drink soem tea, think some more, putter around, and make some more changes. | 11:41 |
lac_ | So do I. | 11:41 |
lac_ | you write up the review comments? | 11:41 |
Tartley | I'm tempted to start just cutting and pasting the IRC log into the reviewers comments. Then we can either skim that or else condense it as we see fit, when processing a submission | 11:42 |
lac_ | this is what moreati has already done in some other cases, I think, so Í am fine with this | 11:43 |
Tartley | DECISION Accept Deniable Encryption, assign to lac, work on the English but otherwise a sound submission | 11:43 |
Tartley | TOPIC Twittering with Python | 11:43 |
lac_ | i am changing them from New to Accepted at this point too. Or have been with mine. OK? | 11:44 |
Tartley | yep, i agree | 11:45 |
lac_ | there -> their | 11:45 |
lac_ | about -> of | 11:45 |
Tartley | yep, but otherwise seems good. Clear what it's about. | 11:46 |
lac_ | still needs a bit of de-Germification | 11:46 |
Tartley | oh, also, it crossed my mind last night | 11:47 |
lac_ | but should be a fine talk. | 11:47 |
Tartley | at how many submissions are we concerned about having 'enough' or even 'too many' | 11:47 |
Tartley | ? | 11:47 |
lac_ | John says no, we can get another room if that is a problem. | 11:48 |
Tartley | right, i see. | 11:48 |
Tartley | horay | 11:48 |
lac_ | I asked on Wednesday before you arrived. | 11:48 |
Tartley | alright then | 11:48 |
lac_ | I think that we may have a problem in that some talks may be so popular they overfill their rooms | 11:48 |
lac_ | and without polling people it is hard to guess which ones they will be. | 11:48 |
Tartley | hmmm. I | 11:48 |
lac_ | or rather, it is trivial to guess, its being right that is hard. :) | 11:49 |
Tartley | har | 11:49 |
Tartley | alright. are you happy taking a few to even out the totals? does that fit with what you had in mind? | 11:49 |
lac_ | but we deal with that when we come to it. | 11:49 |
lac_ | sure, | 11:49 |
lac_ | including these next 2 | 11:50 |
Tartley | DECISION Accept Twittering with Python, assign to lac, needs a little work on English, but generally sound | 11:50 |
lac_ | I think my real question is why do the people who like twitter like it so much? | 11:50 |
Tartley | har, guilty as charged, I'm afraid | 11:51 |
lac_ | but maybe I won't ask that. | 11:51 |
TheSheep | lac_: context switching is addictive | 11:51 |
lac_ | but as far as I know it means you get to watch a threaded discussion, and even participate, not seeing all the threads. | 11:51 |
lac_ | which struck me as, well, weird | 11:52 |
lac_ | er all the thread, even | 11:52 |
lac_ | ah well. back to work | 11:52 |
Tartley | yeah. har. It isn't perfect, that's for sure. But it seems to be fun and useful that you can be having a focussed discussion with one person, and other qualified people you both care about get to wade in, unexpectedly, from over your shoulders. | 11:53 |
Tartley | great for distributed events - chatting about the inauguration, live, with your friends from around the world | 11:53 |
Tartley | anyhow | 11:54 |
lac_ | time for a new topic | 11:55 |
Tartley | TOPIC Mixing Python and Java | 11:55 |
lac_ | looks like another good talk, and needs a little de-Germification, also | 11:56 |
Tartley | right, but the content seems great, and perfectly clear what he's going to talk about | 11:57 |
Tartley | another sound submission, i think? | 11:57 |
lac_ | I agree. | 11:57 |
Tartley | DECISION Accept Mixing Python and Java, assign to lac, a little work on de-Germification, otherwise good submission | 11:58 |
Tartley | TOPIC Metaprogramming with Decorators | 12:01 |
Tartley | we're even again now, btw. You hadn't dropped as low as I made out | 12:01 |
Tartley | (stupid spreadsheets) | 12:02 |
lac_ | ah, just a crafty plan to get me to take more talks! bwah-hah-hah | 12:02 |
Tartley | alright, sounds like you've chatted with Bruce. I don't know of him. | 12:03 |
Tartley | ooh, he's famous. | 12:03 |
lac_ | I have, but John is doing the bulk of it now, as it revolves around British Airways pricing | 12:03 |
lac_ | yes. and pycon volunteer. designed the tshirt, which I hope looked better in person than it did on my screen. | 12:04 |
lac_ | my screen is known for being overly red, though. | 12:04 |
Tartley | ah, yes, i liked it a lot | 12:04 |
lac_ | great. | 12:04 |
lac_ | at any rate, he then went and broke his leg, so couldn't make pycon | 12:04 |
lac_ | I suggested he give the talk here, and he is willing but cannot afford to fly out. | 12:05 |
Tartley | ohno! that was him! oh dear. | 12:05 |
lac_ | But he is a big draw name, so sponsoring him should make money for us, after the plane charge. | 12:05 |
Tartley | alrighty then. perennially interesting topic. all good. | 12:05 |
lac_ | and he is a professional programming educator. | 12:06 |
Tartley | Any clarifications needed? I don't think so. | 12:06 |
lac_ | so his talks are always well done. | 12:06 |
lac_ | no. just who to assign to. | 12:06 |
lac_ | you if you want an opportunity to chat with the man | 12:06 |
lac_ | me if your plate is looking full. | 12:06 |
Tartley | Would be great, I'd be happy to, thanks | 12:07 |
lac_ | you are most welcome | 12:07 |
Tartley | DECISION: Accept Metaprogramming with Decorators, assign to tartley. | 12:07 |
Tartley | TOPIC turtle.py - a teaching tool | 12:09 |
lac_ | ah 'easily excitable'? | 12:10 |
Tartley | not precisely sure what that means | 12:10 |
lac_ | me either. suggest we get that clarified. | 12:10 |
Tartley | problems that are exciting I guess | 12:10 |
Tartley | ok | 12:10 |
lac_ | for all I know this is a common German idiom that just doesn't survive translation | 12:10 |
Tartley | right | 12:11 |
Tartley | he seems to lay it all out clearly in the abstract though | 12:11 |
Tartley | fixing 'traditional' | 12:12 |
Tartley | alright, seems good | 12:13 |
Tartley | barring 'excitable', I'm happy to accept as is | 12:13 |
Tartley | Do you have any reservations about taking it on? | 12:14 |
lac_ | no, he is a happy contributor to edu-sig and I chat with him regularly | 12:15 |
Tartley | DECISION: Accept turtle.py - a teaching tool, assign to lac, ask for clarification of 'easily exciting' in description | 12:15 |
lac_ | terrific | 12:15 |
Tartley | TOPIC Python for System Admin | 12:16 |
lac_ | whose this Pinner guy? do we trust him to even show up? | 12:17 |
Tartley | wait a minute! It's our glorious leader! | 12:17 |
lac_ | who's | 12:17 |
lac_ | :) | 12:17 |
lac_ | I guess we know whom to assign this to. | 12:17 |
Tartley | dang, can | 12:18 |
Tartley | can't we find *one* correction that needs to be made :-) | 12:18 |
Tartley | alright, are you saying we can just assign to john himself and be done with it? | 12:19 |
Tartley | that's awesome | 12:19 |
lac_ | I think so. Personally, I think that there are easier targets for bloat than the bash shell | 12:20 |
lac_ | designed for the 'I need a GUI to admininster anything' crowd, but maybe that's just me. | 12:21 |
Tartley | DECISION: Accept Python for System Admin, assign to John himself. | 12:21 |
lac_ | then we can tease him that we assigned him talks while he wasn't here.... :) | 12:22 |
Tartley | indeed, a most excellent delegation | 12:23 |
Tartley | TOPIC Rapid Prototyping with Python | 12:23 |
Tartley | VRAD is presumably very rapid app dev, need clarify | 12:24 |
lac_ | there is a worse problem | 12:24 |
Tartley | y? | 12:24 |
lac_ | either that 2009 is a typo | 12:24 |
lac_ | or we need to reject this talk | 12:24 |
Tartley | ahar | 12:24 |
Tartley | right | 12:24 |
lac_ | even if it is 2008, I am not sure we want the talk without seeing the code | 12:25 |
Tartley | OK, lets just mail him to get the inside scoop. A demanding mission, requiring delicacy and yet incisive action. | 12:26 |
Tartley | shall I draft an email and run it by you before sending? | 12:27 |
lac_ | not yet | 12:27 |
lac_ | because I went to his speaker page | 12:27 |
lac_ | it says 2009 too | 12:27 |
Tartley | mysterious | 12:27 |
lac_ | so I guess that is the best thing for now. But this is one to leave as 'proofread' and not 'accepted' | 12:28 |
Tartley | right | 12:28 |
TheSheep | come on, almost 2 weeks of python experience! | 12:30 |
Tartley | alright, so I'll draft the email then, offline | 12:30 |
Tartley | DECISION: Tartley to draft email to Chirs, submitter or Rapid Prototyping with Python, to ask if 'April 2009' is a typo, and to elicit information about & previews of the prototypes that will be demonstrated. Run this by lac before sending. | 12:33 |
lac_ | It is not clear that we need the previews -- if he says, oops, I meant 1999, then we are in a different place than if he says ooops I meant 2008 | 12:34 |
lac_ | its reponse significant | 12:34 |
Tartley | right, makes sense | 12:34 |
Tartley | ok then. A quickie to ask about the date only first up. | 12:34 |
lac_ | yes. will also make rejecting it easier if he says, yes, that's right, 2 weeks ago | 12:35 |
lac_ | though one might want to get a glace at the code just to see what perl-written-in-python looks like. | 12:35 |
lac_ | but I am mean. | 12:36 |
Tartley | you surely are, please don't stop | 12:36 |
Tartley | DECISION: Tartley's email to Chirs only needs elicit confirmation of the date for the time being. Running by lac not required for that. | 12:39 |
Tartley | TOPIC Search with Python and Xapian | 12:39 |
lac_ | we have this in our app too. rats, all our secrets revealed: :) | 12:41 |
lac_ | so it sounds like a very useful talk to me. | 12:42 |
Tartley | Yep. I just title-cased 'python' | 12:42 |
lac_ | you missed one in the abstract | 12:43 |
lac_ | I do not know if it is better as databases or as webprogramming | 12:43 |
Tartley | How will the categories be used? To create tracks of talks so that they won't run against each other? | 12:44 |
lac_ | er, more so that people who are in the room with a talk | 12:45 |
lac_ | are more likely to want to go to the next talk offered there | 12:45 |
lac_ | than have to change rooms | 12:45 |
Tartley | fair enough | 12:45 |
lac_ | the tracks against each other, well, it is a problem. | 12:46 |
lac_ | because an interest in web programming doesn't exclude an interest in testing or in anything else | 12:46 |
lac_ | for that matter. | 12:46 |
lac_ | what I would like to do, if we can, is to publish the talks and then mail all the speakers | 12:47 |
lac_ | and have them indicate which talks they want to see. | 12:47 |
lac_ | because I am more worried about scheduling a talk against the talk the speaker most wanted to see | 12:47 |
lac_ | than any other scheduling problem. | 12:48 |
Tartley | fair enough, that sounds great | 12:48 |
lac_ | except the -- we are trying to stick 250 people in a 90 person room problem | 12:48 |
lac_ | I worry about that a lot, too | 12:48 |
Tartley | But basically this submission is great. | 12:49 |
lac_ | yes, | 12:50 |
lac_ | very good. | 12:50 |
Tartley | I | 12:50 |
Tartley | I'm one ahead in the talks tally, so I | 12:50 |
Tartley | so I'm proposing to land you with it | 12:50 |
lac_ | can assign it to me. | 12:50 |
Tartley | DECISION: Accept Search with Python and Xapian, assign to lac. | 12:51 |
Tartley | TOPIC The Zen of Web | 12:52 |
lac_ | I propose we take this talk. I wonder if 30 minutes is enough time. | 12:53 |
lac_ | and Like Ville I would have preferred tags as well. | 12:54 |
TheSheep | I'd definitely come listen to that :) | 12:54 |
Tartley | Right, well we have the field now, it'll be good for next year. | 12:54 |
Tartley | Alright. | 12:55 |
Tartley | Any clarifications needed? I may move Ville's keywords into our tag field to get the ball rolling | 12:55 |
lac_ | er tag field? | 12:56 |
TheSheep | at the bottom | 12:56 |
Tartley | ph | 12:56 |
Tartley | I don't think it works the way I thought it works | 12:56 |
lac_ | I don't think so either, but I am not sure | 12:56 |
lac_ | I think they are Django tags for something Django related | 12:57 |
Tartley | alright, abort that | 12:57 |
Tartley | alright | 12:57 |
Tartley | I'll take this, unless anyone jumps up | 12:57 |
Tartley | for it | 12:57 |
Tartley | accepted without requiring amendments | 12:58 |
lac_ | fine by me, I have a bunch I think are natural for me coming up. | 12:58 |
Tartley | ah, i see | 12:58 |
Tartley | DECISION: Accept The Zen of Web, assign to tartley | 12:58 |
Tartley | My lovely wife reminds me that I've let us overrun my planned slot for this meet - we have guests coming soon so I should vamoosh | 12:59 |
Tartley | I'm still in pyjamas, etc | 13:00 |
lac_ | Apologise to her from me for taking too much of your time. | 13:00 |
Tartley | not at all, she's used to my ways. :-) | 13:00 |
lac_ | well, she may not be used to getting apologies, though, and I think she deserves one. | 13:00 |
lac_ | at any rate, we resume this work this evening? tomorrow? | 13:01 |
Tartley | Very true, for which she was most amused and grateful. Alright. We're going to do the English easter chocolate overdose here. | 13:01 |
lac_ | have tons of fun! | 13:01 |
Tartley | we will, you too. Tomorrow is free for me, anytime. | 13:02 |
lac_ | ok, same time as today? or I can do earlier if you can | 13:02 |
lac_ | and again, not sure if somebody wants to go kayaking tomorrow | 13:02 |
Tartley | I'm sorry, I'm not a mornings person, today was enough of a struggle. | 13:03 |
Tartley | Alright, how about just a repeat performance, including caveats. | 13:03 |
Tartley | Thanks Laura | 13:03 |
lac_ | ah. ok, same time tomorrow then. And repeat with caveats | 13:03 |
lac_ | Oh, thank you | 13:03 |
lac_ | pleasure working with you as always, | 13:03 |
lac_ | have fun | 13:03 |
Tartley | bye for now people. Thanks for the lurking commentry too people. | 13:03 |
Tartley | You have fun too. Bye! | 13:03 |
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