IRC log of #europython for Wednesday, 2009-04-08

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lacfuzzyman: did you talk with tartley about tonight?18:01
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lacI am going to the store.  back in 10 miunutes or so19:45
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moreatipinner: evening19:56
pinnerHello, I've had a senior moment and forgot19:57
pinnerWhat have I missed?19:57
moreatiNothing, we're due to start in 3 minutes19:57
pinnerphew, that's OK then!19:58
pinnerbeen busy writing a new payroll report19:59
moreatipinner: I'm struggling with my username and password though, could you remind/reset me?19:59
pinnermoreati: on the talks system?20:01
moreatipinner: yes please20:01
moreatipm or email should suffice20:01
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pinnermoreati: done. user moreati, pw email20:04
pinnerSo who is here?20:05
moreatipinner: thank you20:05
pinnerand who is in the chair?20:05
pinnerhello Laura20:07
lachas anybody heard from tartley?20:07
pinnerlac: not me20:07
moreatilac: thank you for the math suggestions I'll try them over the weekend20:07
lacyou are most welcome.20:08
moreatipinner: the email hasn't arrived yet, could you /msg me20:08
pinnermoreati: I meant the pw is your em address20:08
pinnermoreati: you can change it after20:09
lacDo we know how much time we have to divide up?  how many rooms X how many minutes?20:09
moreatiso done, I'm in20:10
lacbecause we will have to see if we have too much material?20:10
lac(in length)20:10
* pinner is tied up with something else for a few minutes, sorry20:10
lacit's ok John.20:11
lacAnother question -- is there any way to show just the tutorials, or just the talks, or just the 30 minute talks?20:12
moreatilac: I think it will be easier to adjust the rooms to match the accepted talks than vice versa20:12
moreatilac: not without I code change, I believe20:12
lacmoreati: that seems to imply that we can have as many rooms as needed.  Then the question is how many tracks to we want to run in parallel when we are having parallel sessions.20:13
lacI am reading all the abstracts now.  has everybody else already read them?20:16
moreatinot yet20:16
lacmoreati: some people on edu-sig are discussing their experiences with SAGE, so you might want to read the archive for today over the weekend too.20:17
moreatilac: okay20:17
* pinner is back20:18
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pinnerBasically, with the number of talks we have we can have an extra room if needed20:19
pinnerso the number is not a problem at the moment20:19
pinnerI'd intended to do a draft layout to establish the load before this meeting, but didn't have the time, sorry20:19
pinnerI've skim read the abstracts and I'm mostly happy20:21
moreatiour previous meeting log is search for 'zem' with an m, to find the submission discussion20:21
pinnerWe'll need to cut the numbe rof Luke Leighton Pyjamas talks, say from 4 to 220:21
pinnerand we may want David Jones to re-title 'Python Sucks'20:22
TheSheepto 'Python Blows'? :)20:22
pinnerand advise the compiled Python guy that he should play down obscuring the source code, for this audience20:22
* pinner chuckles20:23
pinnerTheSheep: maybe to 'What Sucks about Python' or similar20:23
moreatiShall we go through the submissions in id order and use the ubuntu meeting structure?20:24
TheSheep'What one might maybe not like very much in Python'20:24
lacI don't even think the talk is about that.  Its 'Python, the Thief! or something, at least as I read  the abstract20:24
pinnermoreati: sounds good to me. are you going to lead? someone else?20:25
lacdo we have any way of knowing if hartley is coming?20:25
moreatiokay I'll lead20:25
pinnerlac: I'll try a phone call to resolver20:25
nickbookerlac: I've added a "by klass" filter to the talks list.20:25
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moreatiTheSheep: present?20:27
pinnerno reply from Resolver yet20:28
moreatipinner: we'll just have to forge ahead20:28
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moreatiTOPIC 1 DSL for functional testing20:28
moreatiLooks like a solid proposal. Is 45 mins the right length?20:29
moreatiGiven he's timed his sections down to the minute, I'd guess so20:30
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laclooks like he knows what he is doing to me.20:31
moreatiVOTE Accept DSL for functional testing20:31
lacactually, we have done this one already, no?20:32
lacwe already accepted a bunch of them20:32
moreatilac indeed we have, could you mark it as accepted in the admin interface?20:33
laclet me go through the list then, I have it here20:33
* nickbooker made a mistake testing the Submission -> Talk,Speaker exporter, and hosed all the statuses20:33
nickbookersorry ;)20:34
pinnerI've found tartley, no one had told him20:34
moreatinickbooker: np20:34
pinnerhe's joining us now20:34
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pinnernickbooker: no problem, we approved the first 18 talks (provisionally)20:34
tartleyHey. Sorry to miss the invite. I'll skim the logs to catch up on this meet while you go ahead now...20:35
lacI propose we just go to the first new ione20:35
pinnerso let's start at talk 18 (because faassen withdrew his hurry.resource)20:35
moreatiAlthough it appears the numbers are now different, what's now number 1 was lower down the list20:36
pinnerTalk 18 is Geoff French's 3d modeller, which we've tried to get him to do for the past 2/3 years20:36
pinnermoreati: the submissions had several tests that were deleted, the talks are renumbered from 120:37
pinnermoreati: and the talks reference the original submission20:37
moreatipinner: can we trust that what are now numbered 1-18 we're the one's we approved?20:37
lacthis is the list of the ones that are accepted20:37
moreatiAh looks like 1-18 became roughly 18-120:38
lacI am overjoyed that Geoff is giving the talk and want to vote it up with no hesitation. :) YIPPEE20:38
pinnermoreati: 1-17, I think, +/- 1 starting at 18 now is good enough, if we've missed one we'll put it right later20:38
moreatiTOPIC 18 gScuplt20:38
lacvote YES20:39
tartleyif that still works20:39
moreatiVOTE 18 gSculpt ACCEPT20:39
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pinnerIDEA Let's just accept them: only vote if there's doubt, should save some time20:40
moreatipinner: okay20:40
tartleydo we need to vote on that? :-) only joking20:41
lacvote +1 on IDEA20:41
lacI was teasing.20:41
moreatiDECISION Accept 18 gSculpt20:41
moreatiTOPIC 19 Open Object Framework20:41
pinnerWe also need to assign a committee member to each talk or speaker20:41
pinnerIDEA lac assigned to Geoffrey French20:42
tartleyif we assign as we go, I'll keep an overall list and mail it or whatnot to everyone after20:42
moreatilac: any objection20:42
pinnerI like the look of both fabien's talks, I think we should accept20:43
lacno objection20:43
lacI'm always pleased to talk with Geoff20:43
* moreati hmphs, never knew OpenERP was Python.20:43
moreatiACTIOn lac assigned to Geoff20:44
lacI don't know anything about what Fabian is talking about, and I think we should accept too.20:44
pinnerBut if OpenERP is not Python, it's not relevant20:45
moreatisounds like a go20:45
pinnermoreati: do you know more about OpenERP?20:45
moreatiDECISION Open Object Framework and Open ERP20:45
moreatiwho gets Fabien?20:45
moreatipinner: nope, just seen it several times on Freshmeat, assumed it was PHP or Java20:46
pinnermoreati: someone who knows about ERP?20:46
pinnermoreati: q will do it (look after Fabien)20:47
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moreatiACTION qwright assigned to Fabien for Open Object Framework and Open ERP20:48
moreatiTOPIC 21 Python Sucks!20:48
qwrightWe need a more explanatory title20:48
pinnerI think it would be stimulating: let's have it but maybe get him to change the title20:49
moreatipinner: agreed20:49
pinnerI'll look after Dave if you want20:49
qwrightI did sit in a Python Sucks! presentation at PyCon 2008 - is it the same one I wonder...20:49
moreatiDECISION Accept 21 Python sucks! ask author to change title to be more descriptive of content20:50
* pinner needs to limit the number of people he takes on though: too many other things on20:50
lacpinner can ask Dave if its the same one as q saw in 200820:50
moreatiACTION pinner assigned to David Jones20:50
moreatiall okay so far am I going too fast?20:51
lacfine by me20:51
moreatiTOPIC 23 Python to Javascript and Back20:51
lacOk, alas more work for Pinner.  Somebody has to tell Luke he cannot have 4 talks and a tutorial20:51
tartleyall good speedwise now I'm up to speed.20:51
lacfigure out what he wants to say and then submit those, withdraw the rest.20:52
moreatiThis is 1 of 4 Pyjamas talks by  Luke Leighton20:52
qwrightI'm still smarting from UKUUG Manchester20:52
tartleyperhaps he expects to get some rejected, wanted to see what submissions went down best20:52
pinnerlac: OK, I know Luke and his problems well, I'll have him as well, Lord help me ;-)20:52
lacsince qwright and pinner were talking to him about th first two talks, I propose they keep on talking to him20:53
pinnerlac: yes20:53
pinnerIDEA let's mark Luke's talks as 'proof read', ie not approved or rejected20:54
moreatipinner: sounds good20:54
lacsounds good to me, too20:54
pinnerso that would look after his other talks as well20:55
pinnerand lead us to Talk 2420:55
moreatiDECISION Mark Pyjamas: Simple RIA Web apps, The Zen of Pyjamas, Python to Javascript and Back, Pyjamas and Django for proofreading20:55
moreatiTOPIC 24 Mashing up The Guardian20:56
lacsounds like a fun talk to me.20:56
moreatiI want to accept it based on the subject. I think it needs a much better description though.20:56
pinnerLooks good from what I know of it and him, but needs expanding before accepting.20:56
moreatiShall I contact Michael?20:57
lacsounds good to me.20:57
tartleyI was about to volunteer, but OK!20:57
moreatiDECISION Hold 24 Mashing up The Guardian20:57
moreatiACTION moreati to contact michael20:57
moreatiTOPIC 25 Python Coin20:58
lacI am very, very, very happy about this, too.20:58
pinnerI've marked it up with status and a comment.20:58
tartleythe description is a great pun, but I think needs a second sentence so as not to mislead20:58
lacStani got a travel scholarship to Vilnius last year because he was starving-class broke.20:58
moreatiYes, I think there's been enough publicity for the title to mean something20:58
pinnerno doubt we should accept this one20:58
lacAnd he is a great guy.  Maybe a different title?20:59
pinnerand get him to bring some coins20:59
lacoh yes. :)20:59
moreatiHow about proposing the title as Python Coin: How to make money with Python... and asking for a descriptive description?20:59
* lac nods at moreati21:00
pinnermoreati: like it21:00
tartleysounds good21:00
moreatiDECISION Accept 25 Python Coin with revised title and description21:00
tartleyshould I volunteer for this one, does that make sense?21:00
TheSheepstarving broken --> advices how to make money, doesn't sound like an expert ;)21:00
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moreatiACTION tartley to contact Stani21:01
moreatiTOPIC 26 HotPy overview21:01
moreatiFirst reaction: naff title, naff decription21:01
pinnerhe's proposed two talks, and suggested they should be merged. I think they're better separate21:02
lacI'd never heard of it.  I would like to know if it is written in Python.21:02
lacI thnk they are better separate, either.21:02
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lacsamuele: have you ever heard of HotPy?21:03
pinnerlooks interesting: let's have it and find out more then21:03
moreatiIDEA suggest title HotPy: High Performance Python VM, move the current abstract to the description and write an an abstract that's more specific21:04
lacthat is fine with me.21:04
pinnerwho's taking mark Shannon on?21:05
lacI can21:05
moreatiDECISION Accept 26 HotPy overview with suggested modifications to title, and abstract21:05
moreatiACTION lac to contact Mark21:05
pinnerIDEA I think we should stop at Talk 30 and reconvene another day21:06
lacnote: I want you to save the suggested modifications when you summarise this meeting so I can remember what we decided. :)21:06
moreatiTOPIC 27 Optimisation in HotPy21:06
moreatilac: it will be in the IRC log, if nothing else21:06
pinnerwho's this Jacob guy?21:06
moreatipinner: I'm very partial to that idea21:07
pinnermoreati: against IDEA21:07
pinnermoreati: (in the log)21:07
lacre: topic 27 -- same conclusion as 26 ,  I think21:07
moreatipinner: I'm confused,21:07
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pinnermoreati: the suggested mods were an IDEA21:08
moreatipinner: you mean you're against changing the title, description etc of 26 HotPy Overview?21:09
pinnermoreati: no, no. It's logged against IDEA21:09
moreatiand I should have labelled it something else?... or you're clarifying?21:10
pinnermoreati: I thought I was clarifying but succeeded in causing confusion21:11
* moreati is a simple bear21:11
pinnerSo we treat Talk 27 the same as 26, right?21:11
tartleyso, lac for both the HotPy talks, right?21:11
lacthat's my proposal21:11
lacand both need new abstracts21:11
moreatilac: sounds good21:12
moreatiDECISION Accept 27 Optimisation in HotPy with description/abstract tweaks21:12
moreatiACTION lac to contact Mark21:13
moreatiTOPIC 28 Nevow and Stan21:13
* lac abstains from this one21:13
pinnernever heard of the speaker21:13
pinnerhe must be good though21:13
* lac sticks her tongue out at pinner21:13
moreatiThe description is only one sentance, that needs to change21:13
pinnerhe cooks a mean reindeer steak21:14
moreatiI see no reason not to accept though21:14
tartleyHar. It certainly presents the purpose clearly enough. Is there any need to explain what Nevow and Stan are, or does the context that it already has suffice?21:14
pinnergood enough reason to accept21:14
moreatiDECISION Accept 28 Nevow and Stan, request description tweak21:15
lacI can ask him to define them in the description.21:15
lacThis job has my name all over it. :)21:15
moreatiACTION lac to liase with Jacob21:15
pinnerI'd really like to hear this one, twisted is a mystery to me21:15
moreatiTOPIC 29 Ironclad: Hubris and Laziness21:15
pinnerI think nevow is woven backwards?21:15
tartleyI know William, he's a friend and colleague21:15
tartleyI suspect it needs more info about *why* Ironclad needs to exist21:16
tartley(ie. that one cannot call Python libraries with C extensions from IronPython)21:16
pinnerWhy is he doing this with a non-portable version of Python, though?21:16
moreatitartley: agreed21:17
tartleyheh. Good Question. Ask our customers.21:17
lacnevow is indeed woven backwards.  I have another question.  Where is the email of these talk submitters?  I cannot find it on the form21:17
pinnerlac: in the speakers' file21:17
moreatiso we accept Ironclad, with some extra context in the description?21:18
pinnerseems good to me21:18
tartleyMake sense that I take it?21:18
pinnertartley: yes21:18
moreatiDECISION Accept Ironclad: Hubris and Laziness with description chg21:18
moreatiACTION tartley to contact william21:19
moreatiare we stopping at 30?21:19
* pinner hopes so21:19
moreatiTOPIC 30 Semantic apps with CubicWeb21:19
* moreati also hopes so21:19
pinnerWe can't not accept Nicolas Chauvat21:20
laceven if we think that 'the semantic web' is a fairly dodgy concept. :)21:20
pinnerbut I hope the talk is better than the last Vilnius one21:20
moreatiIt needs a fuller description21:21
lacI wonder how many people out there have never heard of the semantic web?21:21
moreatiperhaps a little explanation of what semantic web is, if that's doable21:21
lacMe I have heard far more than I have ever wanted to, but is that normal?21:21
* pinner hasn't heard of it ;-)21:22
moreati(emphasis on little)21:22
tartleyyes I checked that21:22
tartleyignore, wrong window.21:23
lacwell, in the talks we haven't got to yet, 8 of them are from people I know in Göteborg.  So can I pass nicolas to somebody else?21:23
tartleyI think people know, but maybe I'm wrong. A sentence and a half can't hurt to make it more accessible and unintimidating, can it?21:23
pinnertartley: that's the trouble with Windows - strange things happen in your Lightning Talk, as well ;-)21:23
tartleyhar. I quite agree.21:24
pinnerI'll talk to Nicolas21:24
moreatiDECISION Accept Semantic apps with CubicWeb21:24
moreatipinner: I was about to take him, if you prefer?21:24
pinnertartley: It was good!21:24
pinnermoreati: I don't mind, it's just that I know him, but you're welcome21:25
moreatipinner: I don't want to tread on toes21:26
moreatiACTION pinner to contact Nicolas21:26
tartleypinner: thx. your content saved it from the condemnations of 'enough with announcements disguised as lightning talks' that were floating around earlier21:26
tartleyI'm  adding our talk-champion assignments to lac's pastebin note...21:26
moreatiAre we drawing the meeting to a close there?21:27
pinnertartley: good. Pity the projector wasn't matched: they missed the bit about supplying the Confederates with guns21:27
tartleymy fault - failed to change my screen res / aspect ratio when running through slides.21:28
pinnertartley: the assignments can go in the talks file, maybe in the Reviewer comment21:28
tartleyalright then.21:28
moreatiTOPIC Any other business?21:28
pinnernext meeting?21:28
tartleyit's nice to have an overview list, for my own peace of mind that I haven't forgotten any that are assigned to me21:29
lacI have business21:29
moreatilac: go ahead21:29
lacTartley wrote a nice 'we accept your EP talk' letter.  Where is it?21:29
tartleyI have a copy, where do we want it?21:29
lacI'd like to use it too, its better than what I already sent out before tartley wrote it.21:29
lacsomeplace on the wiki21:30
tartleyok, I'll do that now...21:30
moreatiACTION tartley to place talk accept wording on wiki21:30
pinneror mail it to the europython-talks list21:30
tartleyI'll mail a link to the talks list21:31
moreatipinner: can we cover any submissions tomorrow evening at PyWM?21:31
lacif it lives on the wiki we have a better chance of finding it next year, though.21:31
pinnermoreati: a few maybe21:31
lacbecause we will forget where we put it over the winter ...21:31
lacI am free tomorrow day and evening.21:32
lac but Friday and the weekend look bad for me.21:32
pinnerlac: we have a document archive, I think. Let's use that21:32
moreatiShall we reconvene tomorrow at 1930 BST/2030 CST?21:33
lacfine with me.21:33
lacBy the way, Anto Cuni found21:34
pinnermoreati: maybe for just a short (30 minute ish) stint? Now we know what we're doing21:34
lacso looks like he is changing the python language to make a dialect that he can optimise.21:34
lacso less interesting than I thought.21:34
moreatipinner: okay21:34
tartleytomorrow I can't do I'm afraid. Weekend is good for me generally though.21:35
pinnerlac: he probably doesn't understand Python21:35
pinnertartley: I can spare an hour on Saturday21:35
moreatilac can you do an hour on Saturday>21:36
lacI may be able to, but need to know when now so to check that I am not booked21:36
pinnerlac: I withdraw that remark!21:36
lacto run a booth or a game at that time.21:36
tartleyanytime during the daytime is good for me21:36
pinnerhow about noon BST on Saturday?21:36
moreatilac: I think we're best working to your existing schedule, when is least worst for you?21:37
lacI don't think that I am in the afternoon, but the morning I know is bad, as it after 180021:37
lacnoon is too early, 1400 is ok21:37
tartleycan do21:37
pinnerand me21:37
moreatiI can do that, it's 1300 BST21:37
moreatilac: you meant 1400 CST I assume?21:37
lacok, we can reconvene then.  Yes, I meant 1300 your time21:38
moreatiDECISION Next meeting 1300 BST/1400 CST for 1 hour21:38
pinnermoreati: I'm opening up the office for Hackerspace, do you want to join me (I'm not in hackerspace)21:38
moreatipinner: on saturday? I'll be in Northampton I'm afraid21:38
pinnermoreati: OK, no problem. I was just hoping for some sensible conversation ;-)21:39
moreatisorry, I'd have to shout really really loadly21:40
moreatiI have to dash, night all21:40
lactake care moreati and thank you21:40
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* pinner has to go as well21:40
tartleythanks all.21:40
tartleysee you then21:40
pinnerThanks, and good night!21:41
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lacI'm going to go cook some dinner now.21:42
tartleyI've apparently got some being cooked for me, which is quite an event!21:43
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