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| lardman | night | 00:29 |
|---|---|---|
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| sivang | MohammadAG: put it back to maemo now? | 00:29 |
| sivang | GeneralAntilles: hey ryan :) | 00:29 |
| MohammadAG | sivang, it's not that, why are two kernels failing to find the eMMC? | 00:30 |
| MohammadAG | actually, I get something like p1 p2 p3 p4 < p5 > | 00:31 |
| MohammadAG | not sure what the <> mean | 00:31 |
| sivang | hmm | 00:31 |
| sivang | then I don't know | 00:31 |
| sivang | maybe doc will know? | 00:31 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG: maybe you can try to put itback to Maemo, e..g by reflashing the eMMC image | 00:32 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: and if it works, retsrat all over? | 00:32 |
| * sivang i stalking out of where the sun does not shine | 00:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | sivang: howdy. | 00:32 |
| MohammadAG | maemo works fine | 00:32 |
| MohammadAG | I never touched it in the first place | 00:32 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: with the same eMMC? | 00:32 |
| MohammadAG | but meego booted up fine once, second time (with maemo boot in between), no dice | 00:33 |
| sivang | you said you thought you b0rked your eMMC | 00:33 |
| sivang | if Maemo boots,and runs, usable, can it still be the eMMC? | 00:33 |
| MohammadAG | well, yes, I can't export /dev/mmcblk* with the rescue image | 00:33 |
| sivang | given you've used enough stuff from home or "user"storage | 00:33 |
| sivang | oh | 00:33 |
| sivang | I see | 00:33 |
| MohammadAG | I have 6 partitions on the eMMC | 00:33 |
| sivang | ext4? | 00:34 |
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| sivang | GeneralAntilles: are you working with qt/c++ by now? | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | actually, "5" | 00:34 |
| MohammadAG | vfat, ext3, swap (default 3), extended partition, and btrfs | 00:34 |
| sivang | you're thinking wear out? | 00:35 |
| MohammadAG | doubt it | 00:35 |
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| sivang | then I don't know. | 00:35 |
| sivang | no idea, hope it is fine though | 00:35 |
| MohammadAG | oh | 00:38 |
| MohammadAG | should've noticed that | 00:38 |
| MohammadAG | Stskeeps, is mmcblk naming stable in MeeGo? | 00:39 |
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| MohammadAG | or is first detect -> first name? | 00:39 |
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| DawnFoster | Jeff_S: too late, you missed the if I ran the Zoo quote :) | 00:43 |
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| MohammadAG | sivang, nevermind, figured it out, might put this on the wiki if anyone feels it's worth doing so | 00:53 |
| MohammadAG | sivang, http://i51.tinypic.com/nez67p.jpg | 00:54 |
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| auke | MohammadAG: it's unstable - the order can be random | 00:58 |
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| MohammadAG | auke, any plans to fix that? | 00:59 |
| auke | I don't think it's fixable | 00:59 |
| auke | mmc controllers can come and go | 00:59 |
| auke | they're not like sata controllers on a system board | 01:00 |
| auke | also, many kernel subsystems are "unordered" by design | 01:01 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG: lba? | 01:01 |
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| sivang | auke: so mmc is like a usb stick plugged, only onboard right? | 01:04 |
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| auke | mcc can be hotplugged, can be onboard | 01:05 |
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| auke | see? it just unplugged :) | 01:05 |
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| ShadowJK | I'd say it's like an sd or mmc card, only onboard :P | 01:07 |
| ShadowJK | emmc that is.. | 01:07 |
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| srbaker | heya folks | 01:08 |
| srbaker | anyone know if the N8 is likely to run meego? | 01:08 |
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| ShadowJK | not likely | 01:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | sivang: no. | 01:09 |
| srbaker | that's a shame. | 01:09 |
| srbaker | it looks like a very sweet device. but i'm not putting any money in the symbian bucket | 01:09 |
| ShadowJK | I don't think it even meets the minimum hw specs for MeeGo | 01:10 |
| srbaker | oh | 01:12 |
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| srbaker | is there any hardware out ther ei can run meego on today? | 01:12 |
| srbaker | i can't find any by googling intel ivi | 01:12 |
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| sivang | ShadowJK: that was what I was getting at, precislhy | 01:13 |
| sivang | GeneralAntilles: ah, ok | 01:13 |
| sivang | srbaker: the symbian there is very different from what you've came to know s far | 01:14 |
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| srbaker | sivang: but it's still closed, and only used by one carrier, right? | 01:14 |
| sivang | srbaker: ah, I thought you were concenred by quality of UX , which in my taste meets most of my needs from a non hacker's device | 01:14 |
| ShadowJK | that's not a symbian issue.. | 01:14 |
| sivang | srbaker: and is slick and cool and fast as a lightning on the N8 | 01:15 |
| srbaker | yeah, i'm not concerned about how good it feels. | 01:15 |
| ShadowJK | Well.. if "getting things done" is part of UX, then symbian in general fails :) | 01:15 |
| srbaker | the iphone feels great, too, but it's a jail. | 01:15 |
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| sivang | srbaker: what do you want to do with it? | 01:15 |
| srbaker | sivang: don't know yet. buti don't want to be prevented from doing anything | 01:16 |
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| ShadowJK | though with the python for s60 port, you can spend a weekend writing yourself some basic software for basic needs, like transfering files over wlan :) | 01:16 |
| sivang | srbaker: if app developm,ent is what you want, that's a done deal and you don't need tp pay 150$ for the sdk | 01:16 |
| sivang | ShadowJK: :) | 01:16 |
| sivang | srbaker: given you know how to use symbian libs for stuff not covered by qt, so far | 01:17 |
| sivang | srbaker: but lots of it is getting htere | 01:17 |
| srbaker | how are maemo and meego related? | 01:18 |
| srbaker | is meego the successor of maemo? | 01:18 |
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| ShadowJK | but then when it comes to getting openvpn running so I can access my email I gave up, the compiler didn't work on my computer, though someone had written an enormous document on how to run it with wine, etc... and then the C library is kinda weird :s | 01:18 |
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| CosmoHill | cyas | 02:19 |
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| rangelife | anyone know how to reject an incoming call programmatically (C++/QT example or command line util)? | 04:08 |
| rangelife | I used a dbus-send command on fremantle but it doesn't work on harmattan | 04:09 |
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| hellyeah | hey | 04:35 |
| hellyeah | what is the meego | 04:35 |
| hellyeah | is a kind of linux | 04:35 |
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| harryhe | who has done with local OBS? I failed in step 6 to import the release, the warning is "SSL certificate checks disabled," the error is "Server returned an error: HTTP Error 401: Unauthorized" | 04:58 |
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| Jay_BEE | good evening (ugt) | 05:35 |
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| Termana | morning | 06:39 |
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| tyson_ | hi. does anybody know obs-git? | 07:25 |
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| Tervrik | http://developer.meego.com/ | 07:31 |
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| iekku | morning | 07:33 |
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| tyson_ | Tervrik: the website(http://developer.meego.com/) need user name and passwd.....i cann't access to it... | 07:53 |
| tyson_ | hi. does anybody know obs-git? | 07:53 |
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| tyson_ | hi. does anybody know obs-git? | 08:05 |
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| theodor | Stskeeps, npm: Thanks stskeeps, its nice that we have someone answering here almost 24/7 :) | 08:23 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, i need to get a life | 08:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:24 |
| theodor | question around video recording is quite much depending the accelerated encoders | 08:25 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 08:27 |
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| Stskeeps | morn tekojo | 08:28 |
| tekojo | morning! | 08:28 |
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| tyson_ | hi. anybody know obs-git? | 08:29 |
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| thiago_home | -16, -18, -18, -18 | 08:32 |
| Stskeeps | almost like finland? | 08:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 08:32 |
| thiago_home | I'm glad I won't be here | 08:33 |
| timoph | :) | 08:33 |
| timoph | looks pretty familiar | 08:33 |
| timoph | thiago_home: What version of qtcreator has the graphical qml editor? | 08:34 |
| thiago_home | 2.0 | 08:34 |
| Stskeeps | timoph: i was able to install from qt sdk and after enabling it in extensions, it was there | 08:34 |
| thiago_home | but disabled. It's enabled in 2.1. | 08:34 |
| timoph | ah. that explains why it doesn't work for me :) | 08:35 |
| Stskeeps | quite nice editor though | 08:35 |
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| timoph | yep. I saw a demo of it and decided that it's time for me to start learning new tricks | 08:36 |
| Stskeeps | i caught up on qml quite easily, which was a plus experience for me :) | 08:37 |
| Stskeeps | didn't write any qt before | 08:37 |
| timoph | attila demoed some qml stuff that had wrappers to some c physics engine on n900. Basically just bunch of blocks on the screen that move when you rotate the device | 08:37 |
| timoph | that was quite impressive | 08:38 |
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| thiago_home | ok, now off to last day of work this year | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | enjoy! | 08:53 |
| iekku | thiago_home, oh, have nice holiday! | 08:53 |
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| npm | hi theodor Stskeeps -- "question around video recording is quite much depending the accelerated encoders" -- yep, i've been wondering how the omap DSP is invoked, and how QtMobility abstracts away compression for different platforms and coprocessors | 08:59 |
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| Stskeeps | npm: 'quite' :) | 09:00 |
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| npm | well it could also happen in gstreamer and qtmobility just pretties up that layer a little? | 09:01 |
| Stskeeps | gstreamer does the magic and qtmobility presents a interface to apps | 09:01 |
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| * npm wonders if there's a document like http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Architecture/Multimedia_Domain | 09:02 | |
| npm | or is it the same | 09:02 |
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| theodor | well, no. | 09:04 |
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| npm | not same or not equiv to maemo 5 "Developer Guide/Architecture/Multimedia Domain" | 09:05 |
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| theodor | the idea hasn't changed "much" but api's aren't the same | 09:07 |
| npm | ok. But if i build to http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/multimedia.html#video-clips then i can expect things to work in 1.2 timeframe for video recording? | 09:10 |
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| npm | theodor -- in general would you consider it wise for me to get working on the web-aspects of http://ytd-direct.googlecode.com first and implement the "integrated video camera" part later when the camera stuff gets to app-developer state? | 09:13 |
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| * npm notes lack of QML API's for recording video clips akin to http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/qml-video.html for playback | 09:18 | |
| * npm wonders what's causing delay on porting working video/camera stuff from maemo to meego -- wouldn't the code running on the DSP chip be the same independent of which OS called it? | 09:21 | |
| Bostik | I wouldn't be too surprised if it was somehow tied to qtmobility | 09:24 |
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| npm | well in examples like http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-mobility-snapshot/declarative-camera-capturecontrols-qml.html it's tied to "import QtMultimediaKit 1.1" | 09:27 |
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| theodor | qt camera api <-> gst camerabin.. is certainly the targeted thing | 09:29 |
| Bostik | yep, multidiakit (IIRC) does come from mobility | 09:31 |
| theodor | currently, the differences in kernel level are a bit delaying camera integration.. since we have selected to support new architecture that cannot be accepted by meego reference kernel due its partly experimental | 09:31 |
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| theodor | npm: To fully featurize camera in N900, Meego needs components that used to be closed binaries in Maemo side. I assume a bunch of 3rdParty agreements needs to be dealt differently with Meego, and can only hope that this is ongoing work. | 09:42 |
| giwon | lbt: hello | 09:46 |
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| theodor | npm: so, I wish not to give any hints based on assumption and cannot currently expect more myself than oss developer release that doesn't utilize accelerated codecs nor camera controls. | 09:47 |
| Myrtti | moin | 09:47 |
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| giwon | lbt: i want to use meego community obs system. | 09:48 |
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| giwon | lbt: how to get meego community obs system account? | 09:49 |
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| giwon | X-Fade: hello | 09:51 |
| giwon | X-Fade: how to get meego community obs system account? | 09:51 |
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| X-Fade | giwon: Sure. What is your meego.com username? | 09:51 |
| giwon | X-Fade: username is namgiwon | 09:52 |
| X-Fade | giwon: Ok, done. | 09:52 |
| giwon | X-Fade: Thanks | 09:52 |
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| giwon | X-Fade: meego.com and obs system same password? | 09:59 |
| giwon | X-Fade: Authentication failed | 10:01 |
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| X-Fade | giwon: Yes, same account. | 10:03 |
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| giwon | X-Fade: Thanks! | 10:05 |
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| npm | theodor: thanks for all the answers... | 10:10 |
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| npm | what about, instead of using closed binaries from maemo side, using http://graphics.stanford.edu/papers/fcam/html/ which has it's own maemo kernel drivers, presumably open-source | 10:12 |
| npm | (i need to go to bed now... will look at your answers in morning scrollback) | 10:13 |
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| theodor | npm: fcam was considered, but back then it lack support for new api's | 10:14 |
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| tyson_ | hi. anybody know obs-git or bsgit? | 10:16 |
| npm | theodor: Kari Pulli indicated interest in providing info to help get FCam ported to meego (i was considering using fcam until i understood its kernel dependency and non QtMobility layering) | 10:17 |
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| npm | if that remains an issue, perhaps revisit FCam? | 10:18 |
| npm | gnight.. really :) | 10:18 |
| theodor | npm: good to know. gnight. | 10:19 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:53 |
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| tyson_ | hi. anybody know obs-git or bsgit? | 10:55 |
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| _r1_ | ppp/w 4 | 11:12 |
| _r1_ | fail. | 11:12 |
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| andrei1089 | hello, I'm trying to play a video in a qml file on meego netbook, but I'm getting No uri set error, any suggestions ? | 12:58 |
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| qgil | OMG http://twitter.com/keybuk/status/14822450634166272 :) | 13:36 |
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| lardman | qgil: who is he? | 13:39 |
| lardman | and why did they leave only to come back? | 13:39 |
| v_zaitse1 | those OMG guys should also form a Web Task Force... | 13:39 |
| lardman | Banshee | 13:39 |
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| v_zaitse1 | of course, OMG already stands for Object Management Group (which has many Task Forces, alas, no Web Task Force) | 13:40 |
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| qgil | lardman: Scott James Remnant is known by its Upstart development, among other things - that comment has different layers of irony, I think | 13:42 |
| lardman | ok thanks for the info :) | 13:43 |
| * Stskeeps still tries to understand why people expect to use trademarks without permission, start using them and then complain when they can't use them.. | 13:43 | |
| alterego | qgil: did you get my email? ;) I forgot to mention that my N900 is also my connection to the internet :) | 13:44 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, lots of OSS folks build systems from other components without issue | 13:44 |
| qgil | alterego: yes I did | 13:44 |
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| Etern4L | hello all! | 13:45 |
| lcuk | imagine the issues we would have ourselves if X11 or something had the same restrictions | 13:45 |
| Etern4L | i want to install monodevelop at my meego | 13:45 |
| Etern4L | can you tell me how can i do it? | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: ignoring the package name issue, taking opensuse, dropping in replacements for key system components and releasing it as opensuse isn't alright | 13:46 |
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| Stskeeps | (go read their trademark guidelines) | 13:47 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, not against the words as said, merely pointing out that its not as clear cut | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | i personally find it entirely fair that you can't call something that's not really meego anything that can be confused with being meego | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:48 |
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| alterego | How do I tell mic not to compress my raw images? | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | package=none or something | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | ask sage | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:49 |
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| alterego | Maybe --compress-disk-image :) | 13:50 |
| alterego | --help is wonderful | 13:50 |
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| Sage__ | alterego: --compress-disk-image=none | 13:54 |
| alterego | Sage__: yeah, thanks :) | 13:54 |
| alterego | Can I add that into my .ks? | 13:54 |
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| timoph | Stskeeps: I heard you could help get our channel (#meego-qa-tools) registered, etc. so that someone would have operator rights in there? | 14:04 |
| Stskeeps | timoph: we're working on it but freenode group registrations seem to go into /dev/null | 14:04 |
| Stskeeps | timoph: if you can all leave you can regain ops | 14:04 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, hm? | 14:05 |
| timoph | that might not be doable anymore | 14:05 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: not kidding.. we sent ours back in start of project | 14:05 |
| lcuk | I thought meego had GRP configured and setup so that meego admins could manage all #meego* channelsto liking? | 14:05 |
| lcuk | GRF * | 14:05 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, hmm I tohught it was just me on #liqbase | 14:06 |
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| lcuk | there is a freenode staffer who idles there, I will ask specifically about #meego | 14:06 |
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| timoph | too many people from around the world idling there to get everyone to leave | 14:07 |
| lcuk | timoph, I had that problem with only 10 people | 14:08 |
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| timoph | :) | 14:08 |
| lcuk | having 60 in yours makes it even tougher | 14:08 |
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| timoph | practically impossible | 14:09 |
| Sage__ | alterego: that is mic cmdline so can't add that to the .ks file | 14:09 |
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| alterego | Sage__: I'll just make a few aliases, my mic commands are too many and too long to remember :) | 14:10 |
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| Sage__ | alterego: some (at some point hopefully all) of those values can be put to /etc/mic2/mic2.conf | 14:11 |
| alterego | Cool | 14:11 |
| Sage__ | or you can create your own .conf file and give that to mic so no need to use the one in /etc/ | 14:11 |
| Sage__ | give --siteconf=file.conf | 14:12 |
| alterego | Well, the machine (VM) I'm using to build these images is only really for building these images :) | 14:12 |
| alterego | Doesn't do anything else now except update my dailys. | 14:12 |
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| Sage__ | using ubuntu and have fedora as vm? ;) | 14:13 |
| alterego | Exactly, | 14:13 |
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| alterego | It's a shocking difference, there must be a lot of fedora reliant stuff in the post inst scripts and things :/ | 14:14 |
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| alterego | I might still look into fixing mic on ubuntu, but I've a feeling the issue is also in the packages not just mic. | 14:15 |
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| Sage__ | AFAIK the issue is in the rpm that is used in ubuntu or something like that. | 14:15 |
| Sage__ | so it gives invalid package database or something. But you should be able to create the images fine with the bootstrap mode (--run-mode=1) | 14:16 |
| alterego | Oh, why isn't that documented on the wiki :) | 14:17 |
| terietor | hello | 14:17 |
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| alterego | Does bootstrap mode make a chroot environment for your host? | 14:17 |
| alterego | s/for/on/ ? | 14:17 |
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| terietor | if someone wants to find more app for meego handset device is there any other place except gitorious? | 14:17 |
| Sage__ | alterego: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=9086 | 14:18 |
| Sage__ | alterego: bootstrap mode creates first a chroot where it creates the image. Bootstrap mode does not currently work on arm though. | 14:18 |
| terietor | and do u have any news about nokia's up coming meego smartphone? | 14:19 |
| alterego | Oh, well, ARM is my target platform. | 14:19 |
| Sage__ | boostrapmode patch for arm: http://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10853 | 14:19 |
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| alterego | Ah, neat :) | 14:19 |
| Sage__ | that is not tested much though so it might not work | 14:19 |
| Sage__ | please let me know if you try it out how it works :) | 14:19 |
| alterego | I will do :) | 14:19 |
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| Sage__ | you need to change the urls a bit for that and replace the architecture to @ARCH@ | 14:20 |
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| alterego | Yeah, I'm using kernel.org mirror anyway. | 14:21 |
| alterego | And another for sgx | 14:21 |
| Sage__ | still you need to use @ARCH@ for all repos that contains architecture specific things. | 14:21 |
| Sage__ | http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/armv7l/packages/ -> http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/trunk/daily/core/repos/@ARCH@/packages/ | 14:22 |
| alterego | So then it'll rely on the --arch flag too? | 14:22 |
| alterego | I tend to use BUILD_ID aswell. | 14:22 |
| alterego | :) | 14:22 |
| Sage__ | not exactly | 14:23 |
| Sage__ | if you specify --arch=armv7l and --run-mode=1 then it does first x86 chroot and after chrooting it changes to armv7l so it uses the repos for both arches. | 14:23 |
| alterego | Yes, that's what I thought | 14:24 |
| alterego | I understand now though why you need the ARCH thanks :) | 14:24 |
| Sage__ | current mic tries to do arm chroot where it would create arm image but then many things go wrong. | 14:24 |
| alterego | Yeah | 14:24 |
| alterego | Does this stop the requirement of qemu-arm-static? | 14:25 |
| alterego | Or do you still need it on the host? | 14:25 |
| Sage__ | still need that | 14:25 |
| alterego | Okay | 14:25 |
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| * alterego sets up an ubuntu 10.10 VM to work on this from scratch | 14:25 | |
| alterego | I'll document it and stick it on the wiki too. | 14:25 |
| Sage__ | I would upstream that patch myself but I need more testing from others that it works fluently and does not destroy anything. Not sure either if that is still valid on top of the git master. | 14:26 |
| alterego | Well, that is what I was going to go with. | 14:26 |
| alterego | I'll let you know how I get on | 14:26 |
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| Umeaboy | Hi! | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | wello | 14:30 |
| Umeaboy | I bought a Kendo M7 today. | 14:30 |
| Umeaboy | I want to switch OS to Meego. I went to the wiki, but it has no instructions for my distro. | 14:31 |
| Umeaboy | Running Mandriva Linux 2010.1 | 14:31 |
| Umeaboy | Fully updated. | 14:31 |
| Umeaboy | What do I do? | 14:32 |
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| Umeaboy | What CAN I do? | 14:32 |
| Umeaboy | Stskeeps: ??????????? | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | whoa, cut down on the caffiene man :) | 14:32 |
| Umeaboy | Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehr!!!!!! Wrong answer!!!! ;) | 14:33 |
| Umeaboy | Try again for a million bucks!!!!!! | 14:33 |
| Umeaboy | hehehehe | 14:33 |
| alterego | Sage__: I'm testing in ubuntu 10.10 64bit | 14:33 |
| Umeaboy | Nobody that can help me? | 14:34 |
| Sage__ | alterego: uh, 64-bit ;) | 14:34 |
| Sage__ | have fun ;) | 14:34 |
| alterego | Sage__: doing this first, then I'll try 32-bit, I just don't have a 10.10 32bit media laying around ;) | 14:34 |
| alterego | Hrm, can I force it to use a 32bit bootstrap chroot? ;) | 14:35 |
| Stskeeps | Umeaboy: make a usb stick, boot it | 14:35 |
| Umeaboy | Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. | 14:35 |
| Umeaboy | USB-stick? | 14:35 |
| Umeaboy | Lets see. | 14:35 |
| Umeaboy | What can I use? | 14:35 |
| Sage__ | alterego: the bootstrap is 32-bit always as MeeGo is 32-bit | 14:36 |
| Sage__ | alterego: it creates the bootstrap from meego packages | 14:36 |
| alterego | Okay, so it should be alright ... | 14:37 |
| Sage__ | _should_, yes ;) | 14:37 |
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| Umeaboy | I'm having trouble understand what do actually download. | 14:52 |
| Umeaboy | Can someone help me? | 14:52 |
| Stskeeps | you need to write a image file to a USB stick, check out meego.com | 14:52 |
| Umeaboy | Yes, but that's where I'm lost. | 14:53 |
| Umeaboy | What to write to the USB-stick. | 14:53 |
| FunkyPenguin | which package and what file holds the Welcome message that is shown in MyZone on the netbook UI? | 14:53 |
| Umeaboy | There are many. | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | FunkyPenguin: grep usually helps | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:53 |
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| Umeaboy | Handet? | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | Umeaboy: http://meego.com/downloads/releases/1.1/meego-v1.1-netbooks | 14:53 |
| Umeaboy | Handset? | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | probably | 14:53 |
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| Umeaboy | For a Surf-tablet? | 14:54 |
| FunkyPenguin | Stskeeps, ah a fountain of knowledge as always ;) | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | Umeaboy: well you can try handset too, it's not half bad | 14:54 |
| Umeaboy | I want to use the proper one. | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | FunkyPenguin: well that's how i would do it, and then ask rpm for the package name | 14:54 |
| Umeaboy | So nothing bad happens. | 14:54 |
| niala1 | hello all. bigproblem how to go back after a "zypper dist-upgrade" | 14:55 |
| niala1 | uxlaunch is only a white screen for me now | 14:55 |
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| MohammadAG | npm, looks like you hit the same problem I got too :P | 15:14 |
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| MohammadAG | corrupt RPMs | 15:14 |
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| kysymys | hi, does any one know how to setup networking between win xp and n900 running meego? | 15:16 |
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| alterego | kysymys: should work the same as it does under maemo | 15:21 |
| alterego | Your host IP should be 192.168.2.1 and the N900 is 192.168.2.15 | 15:21 |
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| kysymys | alterego: but if have other host ip? for instance i have 10.0.0.2 | 15:22 |
| alterego | Then you'll need to reconfigure usb0 on the N900 to be in that subnet | 15:23 |
| kysymys | thanks | 15:23 |
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| MohammadAG | alterego, umm, is that necessary? | 15:29 |
| alterego | It is if he wants to use that network address | 15:30 |
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| MohammadAG | my PC's ip is 192.168.1.119 and it works fine as is | 15:32 |
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| niala1 | is anybody on netbook with trunk/daily updates ? | 15:34 |
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| kysymys | my main aim is to develop applications using qtcreator and windows. but i can't do it without networking. am i right? | 15:34 |
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| niala1 | why kysymys ? you need network only to download ?! | 15:36 |
| Stskeeps | kysymys: you can do it oer wifi too | 15:36 |
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| kysymys | I need to debug and so on, to install app | 15:36 |
| niala1 | nobody have notified any problem with daily update ? | 15:37 |
| kysymys | unfortunately, i have no wifi | 15:37 |
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| niala1 | another question: after a 'zypper dup' how to come back to meego 1.1 ? | 15:43 |
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| araujo | niala1, I don't think that is easily feasible .... reinstall again? | 15:54 |
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| niala1 | i m crazy.. 'zypper rm meego-release' 1,7GiB will be freed ..... | 16:23 |
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| mak89k | hello friends , i followed the instructions on the installation of QEMU for the runtime , but the launch is unsuccessful | 16:46 |
| mak89k | also the ping give me a exit error | 16:48 |
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| odin_ | mak89k, which instructions and what platform ? I repeatedly see users report some kind of error/problem getting QEMU to work, not sure if its instructions, design or user-error | 16:59 |
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| mak89k | its the QEMU that is giving me the problem , there is no screen or anything. i am trying the Xephyr method hope it works | 17:00 |
| mak89k | btw i am running asus 1005ha , which is tested for it | 17:00 |
| odin_ | desktop Linux ? which distro ? | 17:00 |
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| mak89k | ubuntu | 17:00 |
| mak89k | 10.04 | 17:00 |
| odin_ | and the instructions you followed were from ? | 17:00 |
| mak89k | the wiki from the meego developer page | 17:01 |
| odin_ | 64bit or 32bit linux? | 17:02 |
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| wazd_ | Stskeeps: around? :) | 17:03 |
| wazd_ | hi all | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | lo wazd | 17:04 |
| odin_ | mak89k, uname -m | 17:04 |
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| mak89k | odin_: 32bit | 17:04 |
| mak89k | i686 | 17:04 |
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| odin_ | ok I don't know the answer to your particular problem, just collecting info | 17:05 |
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| odin_ | mak89k, this is the wiki page ? http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_SDK_with_QEMU | 17:06 |
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| mak89k | odin_: yes thats it | 17:07 |
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| Umeaboy | :s mdam | 17:08 |
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| mak89k | odin_: does qemu work for you? | 17:10 |
| odin_ | mak89k, I don't use ubuntu, but Fedora, last time I fired it up it worked | 17:11 |
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| mak89k | odin_: maan , this situation sucks. | 17:13 |
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| odin_ | mak89k, you are using ubunto on bare-metal ? yes there are a few too many headaches getting QEMU fired up, maybe a better self-test-diagnostic that explains the problem on startup would see fewer blocking progress issues | 17:14 |
| mak89k | bare-metal? | 17:15 |
| odin_ | mak89k, can you pastebin your /proc/cpuinfo (I presume hardware is less than 3 years old and 64bit capable) | 17:15 |
| mak89k | nope i bought this netbook lat december | 17:16 |
| odin_ | mak89k, bare-metal == not running under VMWare or something like it, anyhows you said ASUS 1005ha so I presume not | 17:16 |
| odin_ | Atom N280 | 17:16 |
| mak89k | Atom 270 | 17:16 |
| mak89k | sorr 280 | 17:17 |
| mak89k | sorr* | 17:17 |
| odin_ | N270/N280 no VT-X (according to spec sheet) | 17:18 |
| mak89k | odin_: so wat does that mean? | 17:18 |
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| odin_ | I think I heard is was a requirement now for the SDK/QEMU... it is the CPU hypervisor virtualization hardware assistance feature | 17:19 |
| odin_ | so why doesn't ./meego-qemu-start not have a big fat warning / error on startup about it ? | 17:19 |
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| odin_ | mak89k, maybe goto #meego-sdk to confirm this matter ? | 17:20 |
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| mak89k | odin_: thanks ... btw where is the meego-qemu-start file? | 17:20 |
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| odin_ | mak89k, in the instructions on the WIKI (for me) | 17:21 |
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| odin_ | the instruction do kind of indicate that you only need VT-X cpu feature support when using Graphics Acceleration for qemu-gl and kind of imply if you don't want that, you are fine | 17:24 |
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| * yacc wonders if anyone here has experience with the WeTab? | 17:28 | |
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| lcuk | yacc, :) have had a brief play on one | 17:31 |
| lcuk | at helsinki meego meetup | 17:31 |
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| yacc | lcuk, I wonder if it's worth the bother. The cpu-fan and weight seem to be kind of a problem, but then reviews can be over pedantic. *scratch-head* | 17:34 |
| yacc | OTOH, the manufacturer seems to be pushing updates to implement all features quite fast, ... | 17:34 |
| lcuk | yacc, idk - am looking at the lenovo ideapad which seems to have best of both wrt netbook/tablet | 17:34 |
| lcuk | i do wonder though whether the ideapad interface can work on it, its all meego, right? | 17:35 |
| lcuk | s/ideapad/wetab/ | 17:35 |
| infobot | lcuk meant: i do wonder though whether the wetab interface can work on it, its all meego, right? | 17:35 |
| joppu | oh dear, meego handset can't be seriously having fennec as the default browser | 17:35 |
| yacc | lcuk, which ideapad? The S10 seems to be a netbook with keyboard, ... | 17:35 |
| joppu | even the maemo nightlies are too slow and sluggish for any pratical use | 17:35 |
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| lcuk | yacc - 10" multitouch | 17:36 |
| tybollt | joppu: why not? | 17:36 |
| lcuk | or so | 17:36 |
| lcuk | yacc, ideapad is a slate too | 17:36 |
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| tybollt | Stskeeps: have the proprietary gfx stuff been merged into trunk (so if I get the latest snapshot - I will be getting that?)? | 17:36 |
| v_zaitse1 | s10-3t has a touchscreen as well a keyboard | 17:37 |
| yacc | lcuk, yeah, I see it. | 17:37 |
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| joppu | because at its current state fennec is still way too unoptimised | 17:37 |
| yacc | lcuk, OTOH, 1.5kg does not look that cool. | 17:37 |
| yacc | I've got a 2.4kg HP convertible already, ... | 17:38 |
| wazd_ | ideapad is convertible | 17:38 |
| wazd_ | not a slate | 17:38 |
| joppu | it's been in developement for quite a long time and even the supposedly stable versions are next to unusable | 17:38 |
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| yacc | fennec? | 17:39 |
| tybollt | mobile firefox | 17:39 |
| joppu | yeah | 17:39 |
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| lcuk | wazd_, i have a convertable car | 17:40 |
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| lcuk | with its top down its no different to a real topless car :) | 17:41 |
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| lcuk | same can be said for convertable laptops turning into a slate | 17:41 |
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| lcuk | wazd, best of all, its also getting the first multi ux meego (bug 10874), netbook and handset so far | 17:42 |
| MeeGoBot | Bug https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=10874 nor, Undecided, ---, elliot.smith, VERI FIXED, Multi UX Meego instructions writeup | 17:43 |
| lcuk | which ux will it get next? :) | 17:43 |
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| juliank | qgil: As you may have noticed on the wiki, Debian is interested in the handset UX (and I am not interested in netbook at all) | 18:05 |
| lcuk | juliank, then put handset ontop of netbook :) | 18:06 |
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| juliank | lcuk: Far more people are interested in netbook overall, and the current page is sorted reverse alphabetically. | 18:09 |
| juliank | or not | 18:10 |
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| qgil | juliank: mno, I hadn't noticed - URL? | 18:29 |
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| qgil | juliank: ah, you mean the one with meego in package names? | 18:29 |
| juliank | qgil: Yes | 18:29 |
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| qgil | juliank: sorry, I was under the assumption that the only contentious UX was netbook, feel free to change | 18:30 |
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| qgil | juliank: btw, do you mind explaining what are exactly the problems you are facing now? | 18:31 |
| qgil | did you see my replies in meego-community, after the topics was decided off-topic in meego-dev' | 18:31 |
| qgil | for background tro the channel: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_in_package_names | 18:32 |
| juliank | qgil: I am not subscribed to meego-community, so no | 18:32 |
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| qgil | juliank: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-community/2010-December/002889.html & 1 reply until now | 18:33 |
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| lcuk | bacon sandwiches in the canteen >>>>>>> | 18:41 |
| alterego | Nice! :) | 18:42 |
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| juliank | qgil: No response from ibrahim to the new stuff yet | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | well, in what i don't find a too smart move, his email sends a autoanswer that he's out of office until the new year.. | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | so that's probably why | 18:45 |
| alterego | :) | 18:46 |
| qgil | juliank: what is the new stuff anyway? this is what I want to go down to details | 18:46 |
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| juliank | qgil: He said no, we then gave reasons where we need to use the name, and are awaiting a response. | 18:47 |
| lcuk | strangely enough, searching internet for meego ibrahim brings up a person on facebook with an awesome profile picture | 18:48 |
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| * lardman is jealous of lcuk | 18:50 | |
| alterego | Heh | 18:50 |
| lcuk | lardman, should I email you one | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: your search just brings up your own? | 18:50 |
| lardman | ? | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | like on maemo.org :P | 18:51 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, a search without lardman pic is wrong I agree | 18:51 |
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| lcuk | we should make a greasemonkey script | 18:51 |
| lcuk | lardman_everywhere :P | 18:51 |
| qgil | juliank: sorry dfor bothering but can you point (or forward me) the email where tyou explained where you needed to use the name? | 18:51 |
| * lardman is confused, I was talking about the bacon sarnies | 18:52 | |
| qgil | juliank: probably in packages that have already that name? | 18:52 |
| lardman | though it's true maemo.org doens't feel like home without my avatar always displayed ;) | 18:52 |
| juliank | qgil: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-dev/2010-December/480531.html | 18:53 |
| juliank | qgil: "and use meego only (and only as a technical | 18:53 |
| juliank | detail such as file or package name) where we are required to do so, | 18:53 |
| juliank | that is, in libraries like libmeegotouch" | 18:53 |
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| qgil | libmeegotouch is called that way and the license says that you can use and redistribute that package. problem solved (which is my point in my last email) | 18:54 |
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| alterego | Sage__: ping | 18:54 |
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| juliank | qgil: That's my opinion as well. | 18:55 |
| qgil | and I believe it's everybody's opinion | 18:56 |
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| juliank | qgil: Well, not ibrahims. | 18:56 |
| qgil | juliank: yesterday in my mail linked above I quoted him, and I think using "libmeegotouch" is fully in sync of what he says | 18:57 |
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| qgil | juliank: if it's not ok then the problem is for the maintainers of libmeegotouch, not yours | 18:57 |
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| qgil | juliank: then the other thing is how you call this "MeeGo-Handset-UX-on-top-of-Debian" | 18:57 |
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| juliank | qgil: Your reply is to someone with the name Gabriel | 18:58 |
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| qgil | juliank: any name in mind? make sure it doesn't sound like "MeeGo" and problem solved | 18:58 |
| CosmoHill | hey arjan | 18:58 |
| qgil | juliank: the point I'm answering is the same that affects you | 18:58 |
| juliank | arjan: A few days ago I saw another 'Arjan' on freenode. | 18:59 |
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| Shalingoul | hi | 19:00 |
| qgil | actually the OMG is not a bad idea :) juliank | 19:00 |
| juliank | qgil: I'd for the "Debian Handset", "Debian Netbook" and "Debian IVI" brands | 19:00 |
| qgil | juliank: sounds great+ | 19:00 |
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| qgil | juliank: with those names and just porting the packages needed with "meego" in their names and making sure no MeeGo logo appears in homescreen etc, I don't see any problem | 19:02 |
| juliank | arjan: "[Arjan] (~Arjan@524B8562.cm-4-4c.dynamic.ziggo.nl): Arjan Snaters" - two people with the same nick is a bit confusing, you might want to keep your eyes open for arjan_ and ask him to use another name. | 19:02 |
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| Shalingoul | i was wondering how it's going on the development to get non SSSE3 devices working on meego? | 19:03 |
| CosmoHill | quietly I'd say | 19:03 |
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| qgil | juliank following with your email, naming the linux groups and teams "Debian Handset" etc you get rid of more MeeGo words | 19:05 |
| Shalingoul | but is there some progress? that would be great! | 19:05 |
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| qgil | Naming the components inm release notes etc is not a problem of course, if something is called MeeGo Touch Framework and you are using it, so be it | 19:06 |
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| qgil | juliank: finally, about "why is Nokia handled differently than anyone else? Why are they allowed to use MeeGo/Harmattan for the next product when it is in fact not MeeGo?" | 19:06 |
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| qgil | I work at Nokia and I have been using the term "MeeGo-Harmattan" only for sanity in public discussions before a release goes out juliank | 19:07 |
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| qgil | as far as I know Nokia will make a request to the MeeGo project via TSG etc to regulate the use of MeeGo in relation of this Harmattan release that will be not quite yet compliant | 19:08 |
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| RST38h | quim: So, *what* Harmattan will be marketed as? | 19:08 |
| qgil | RST38h: Nokia hasn't said anything yet, the first step will be to make a proposal to the MeeGo project and get it approved | 19:10 |
| RST38h | Ah,I see | 19:10 |
| Sage__ | alterego: pong | 19:10 |
| RST38h | Not reconsidering using Maemo just this once though? | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | what i'm occasionally wondering about is who is authorized currently to use the meego trademark | 19:10 |
| alterego | Sage__: the patch doesn't apply against the latest git :) | 19:10 |
| qgil | RST38h: since the MeeGo launch day Nokia has made clear that Maemo would not be used in future releases | 19:11 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: Doesn't website have a page of legalese on this? | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: sure, but doesn't say who has permission | 19:11 |
| RST38h | quim: Ok (many things changed since then though) | 19:11 |
| qgil | RST38h: and honestly, even if Harmattan is technically not MeeGo compliant (packaging and some little bits) it is a lot closer to MeeGo than to Maemo | 19:11 |
| Sage__ | alterego: ok, I need to rebase it then at some point. Propably tomorrow. | 19:11 |
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| alterego | Sage__: okay, I'll do a manual patch for now. | 19:12 |
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| qgil | Stskeeps: we need to get this compliance spec approved by the TSG in order to have a crystal clear answer | 19:12 |
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| alterego | ls | 19:12 |
| RST38h | qgil: Well, IMHO it is all pretty artificial anyway, but given that it is clearly not Meego, the logical (albeit imperfect) solution seems to call it Maemo6 or something | 19:12 |
| Sage__ | . .. | 19:12 |
| qgil | then it will be either compliant products or anybody going through an explicit permission path to the TSG | 19:13 |
| RST38h | Nokia owns the trademark, etc | 19:13 |
| alterego | They don't want to call it Maemo, because it'll scare off developers | 19:13 |
| RST38h | alterego: true | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: :nod: i was just wondering about the elephant in the room which is for example linpus meego :) compliance will be good to finally get out the door | 19:13 |
| qgil | RST38h: this "clearly not MeeGo" is clear to platform developers, less clear to app developers (assuming the API compatibility is there), even less clear to users, media, etc. But we have discussed this many times and there is nothing really to be discussed before you see Harmattan under the light | 19:14 |
| * alterego agrees | 19:14 | |
| qgil | Stskeeps: afaik the LF is actually asking Linpus about this | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: ah, good | 19:15 |
| alterego | I'm kind of bored of this conversation. I think I've been involved in similar ones more than 20 times now :) | 19:15 |
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| alterego | Maybe I should keep a tally | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | there was a bit of a 'so why are you saying no to these guys in public and doing nothing about X' atmosphere, but i guess transparency in this area is difficult :) | 19:15 |
| * RST38h stiffles the question "WHEN?" =) | 19:16 | |
| GAN900 | RST38h, never. | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: each time you ask the question the release is postponed a week | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 19:16 |
| qgil | Stskeeps: there is this assumption that the LF automatically finds ok any commercial product wearing the MeeGo brand | 19:16 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I know. And a Finnish kitten dies. | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | qgil: ah, we know from suse meego tsg meeting item that's not true :P | 19:16 |
| qgil | Stskeeps: in case of doubt file a bug under Policy/Trademark and let the LF find oiut and decide whjat to do | 19:16 |
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| GAN900 | RST38h, it's actually a ploy to keep developers away from iOS and Android in the short term. Then the "next thing" will be announced with Symbian. :P | 19:16 |
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| Stskeeps | qgil: :nod: | 19:17 |
| alterego | The only thing that confuses me is, when mentioned the first MeeGo Nokia device will be Q1? 2011, is that "MeeGo/Harmatten" or a 100% MeeGo Handset based device. | 19:17 |
| alterego | I expect the former and the latter to follow Q3 .. | 19:17 |
| * javispedro jiggles | 19:17 | |
| GAN900 | alterego, former. | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | ok, back to hacing.. | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | +k | 19:17 |
| alterego | ls | 19:17 |
| RST38h | GAN900: Judging from the Net discussions and blogs, it rather looks like a ploy to migrate developers/users from Nokia to Android =( | 19:17 |
| GAN900 | RST38h, well, it may have backfired a little. *g*. | 19:18 |
| GAN900 | IRC: ls: command not found | 19:18 |
| javispedro | alterego: and "the latter to follow Q3" sounds overly optimistic | 19:18 |
| GAN900 | Ponies and rainbows optimistic. | 19:18 |
| alterego | Maybe, | 19:19 |
| alterego | I don't see why it's _that_ optimistic tbh | 19:19 |
| berndhs | its probably just real secret and will come out in time for christmas | 19:20 |
| GAN900 | alterego, consider history. | 19:21 |
| GAN900 | berndhs, secret enough for them to announce 2011 as the "more information" timeframe in Dublin? | 19:21 |
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| berndhs | right, that's just to confuse the competition :) | 19:22 |
| javispedro | hell yeah, the device will be an atom handset. | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | javispedro: no no, powerpc | 19:22 |
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| berndhs | IBM Cell actually | 19:22 |
| alterego | I was banking on mips .. | 19:22 |
| npm | re: <MohammadAG> npm, looks like you hit the same problem I got too :P -- actually the RPM's aren't corrupt, they're "empty" as if just a header was output | 19:23 |
| MohammadAG | npm, regardless, they don't install | 19:24 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, ah, nostalgia. | 19:25 |
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| npm | (for others wanting to know what this is about: http://lists.meego.com/pipermail/meego-sdk/2010-December/000749.html ) | 19:25 |
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| npm | it turns out phonon has the same problem. i'm testing the fix right now, soon as i can boot successfully again :-) | 19:26 |
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| npm | i'm developing a rather larger "cargo cult" of ways of getting meego to boot successfully on n900. i'm going to have to get rid of a few items soon | 19:31 |
| * javispedro ponders adding 2GiB to the ideapad | 19:32 | |
| RST38h | Onlyone method is required, but it should not involve inserting/yanking the SD card | 19:32 |
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| MohammadAG | is there a mirror for the weekly images on repo.meego.com? | 19:37 |
| npm | well there's the trick of getting the xterm on the console.... that's a good cargo-cult item to hold onto... | 19:37 |
| npm | start the "setup app" rotate the handset vertical so the setup app rotates, then quit setup app. the "main screen" will be in vertical mode and when you click menu, "xterm" is one of the items that was previously off-screen | 19:38 |
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| tgall_foo | I'm trying to track down some of the meego source code, specifically does anyone know where the source to libsysinfo and libcellular-qt ? | 19:58 |
| tgall_foo | I don't see anything on repo.meego.com (looking in 1.1 and 1.1.80) as well as on gitorious | 19:58 |
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| qgil | juliank: just answered your email fwiw - I hope the issues are resolved and ylou can continue your work | 20:00 |
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| juliank | qgil: Saw and read it | 20:01 |
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| lcuk | http://fossdotin.blogspot.com/2010/12/topic-backuprestore-for-meego.html | 20:50 |
| lcuk | one of the talks at the meego bangalore meeting | 20:51 |
| lcuk | http://fossdotin.blogspot.com/2010/12/topics-and-overview.html (rest here) | 20:51 |
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| qgil | Ah, finally: http://wiki.meego.com/Marketing/Media_Team | 20:56 |
| qgil | and now, time to switch off :) | 20:56 |
| qgil | anybody interested in contributing to the media team, see you here tomorrow | 20:56 |
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| Stskeeps | looks good! | 20:57 |
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| DawnFoster | TSG meeting starts in 30 minutes in #meego-meeting: http://wiki.meego.com/Technical_Steering_Group_meetings | 21:33 |
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| Stskeeps | kyb3R: you're having a meego.fi meeting at midnight finnish time? brave.. | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:49 |
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| Stskeeps | (22:00 UTC..) | 21:51 |
| andre__ | ehehe | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: thanks for proposing a flexible approach (might come in handy in the future for various situations as well, i guess) | 21:54 |
| arjan | it's a tough balance | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | it is | 21:54 |
| arjan | because we want to be able to use newer features in meego when Linux gets them | 21:54 |
| arjan | (assuming the feature is interesting for our targets) | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | i'm technically inclined towards a baseline matching what meego needs | 21:54 |
| arjan | yeah that's what we had so far | 21:55 |
| arjan | problem is not all hw can follow that fast | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: with kernel-headers and all | 21:55 |
| arjan | like the AOS thing | 21:55 |
| arjan | there is a point, that it's sometimes easier to backport those 4 or 5 key features a kernel or two, rather than rebasing | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: | 21:56 |
| arjan | anyway the new way the thing is worded should be more flexible while still having the same final intent ("compatible enough" kernel so we and apps can use new features) | 21:56 |
| dm8tbr | arjan: I hope I managed to get across that I'm not after blocking the main meego things but want to see the situation clearly defined for small hardware adaptation communities | 21:56 |
| arjan | dm8tbr: oh I understand your points | 21:56 |
| dm8tbr | good :) | 21:57 |
| arjan | I think you understand mine as well | 21:57 |
| dm8tbr | absolutely | 21:57 |
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| arjan | so hopefully the new proposal wording adds enough flexibility | 21:57 |
| dm8tbr | I tried to actually not argue those :) | 21:57 |
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| arjan | the whole point of the porposal is to allow someone to not HAVE to follow the meego pace | 21:57 |
| arjan | while allowing us to use newer features once they become available | 21:58 |
| dm8tbr | which is obviously good | 21:58 |
| arjan | (and have some form of compliance/compatibility for app writers) | 21:58 |
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| arjan | dm8tbr: it's a tough balance in general; for me app compatibiilty while allowing innovation are important things | 21:59 |
| arjan | (those are the reasons MeeGo exists in the first place) | 21:59 |
| arjan | just need to find a way to also allow the smaller hw communities/etc | 21:59 |
| dm8tbr | I really hope we can find a way to integrate those small hardware adaptation communities. after all that's where the big companies draw a lot of skilled people from | 21:59 |
| arjan | I hope the proposal achieves that now | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | TSG meeting in 2 minutes or so in #meego-meeting | 21:59 |
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| arjan | dm8tbr: so now with this proposal you can have your own kernel in OBS and get it going | 21:59 |
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| arjan | and once it's compatible "enough" it can even be part of the official Meego.com releases | 21:59 |
| dm8tbr | arjan: which indeed would be nice, yes | 22:00 |
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| arjan | without being stepped on by other hw communities at the same time | 22:00 |
| arjan | s/same time/all the time/ | 22:00 |
| infobot | arjan meant: without being stepped on by other hw communities at the all the time | 22:00 |
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| lbt | arjan: "one of the MeeGo OBS instances" ? I haven't seen that discussed | 22:03 |
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| arjan | lbt: I don't care if it's community obs or the other one | 22:04 |
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| arjan | wanted to leave that open so that if anything changes tehre we don't need a new TSG decision | 22:04 |
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| lbt | OK | 22:04 |
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| timeless_mbp | DawnFoster: is amy on irc? | 22:10 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: just before you joined it was stated she's at the next conference site | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: let me dig up backlog for you | 22:10 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless_mbp: http://trac.tspre.org/meetbot/meego-meeting/2010/meego-meeting.2010-12-15-19.58.log.txt | 22:10 |
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| DawnFoster | timeless_mbp: She is sometimes - she was in the last community office meeting in IRC, and she's been in a few of the TSG meetings, too | 22:11 |
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| timeless_mbp | queue+ to ask some questions about items in the current #topic proposal | 22:12 |
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| timeless_mbp | "board"? | 22:12 |
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| lbt | timeless_mbp: generic terminology for a specified set of hardware :) | 22:14 |
| timeless_mbp | lbt: as opposed to a board of governors | 22:15 |
| lbt | yes | 22:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | someone ping me when it's my turn | 22:16 |
| timeless_mbp | QUESTION [1 of N]: what actually enforces the security promise in point 5? there doesn't appear to be a sanction method | 22:16 |
| DawnFoster | timeless_mbp: go :) | 22:16 |
| * Stskeeps assumes that's done as with all meego stuff, if you don't follow rules, you get dropped.. | 22:17 | |
| lbt | since it's a loose policy maybe there should be 'subject to the interpretation of the MeeGo architect' | 22:17 |
| lbt | (good that it's loose though) | 22:18 |
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| Stskeeps | lovely, i have a stuck build log | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | job too | 22:22 |
| lbt | although it is odd that we have such a loose 'laissez faire' policy for the kernel and yet a tight "letter of the law" policy on the name... | 22:22 |
| timeless_mbp | lcuk: =~ s/its/it's/ | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | timing is a big issue for development, yeah | 22:23 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, I will think on next time I need it \o | 22:24 |
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| timeless_mbp | DawnFoster: #action ;-) | 22:25 |
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| lbt | lcuk: read this http://garyes.stormloader.com/its.html or timeless_mbp will haunt you | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: not going to ask this in the meeting, but we don't seem to be saying anything about kernel ABI, like ioctls and such.. | 22:26 |
| lcuk | thanks lbt \o | 22:26 |
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| lbt | lcuk: hehe | 22:26 |
| timeless_mbp | http://eloquentscience.com/2010/04/bob-the-angry-flower-its-vs-its/ | 22:26 |
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| lbt | arjan: sorry, meant to post in here | 22:28 |
| arjan | Stskeeps: it does actually but worded as "user visible features" :) | 22:29 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, regarding auto adding features, in the inverse case, automatically depending on things by default rather than by hard requirement also happens too often. | 22:29 |
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| lbt | arjan: how hard is that to track going forwards? | 22:29 |
| timeless_mbp | ? | 22:29 |
| lcuk | but the first glimpse of whether they are required or accidental comes when someone tries to port code backwards. | 22:29 |
| lcuk | <timeless_mbp> yeah, since most packages auto enable features if they find them... | 22:30 |
| timeless_mbp | sorry isn't that the same thing? | 22:30 |
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| timeless_mbp | thanks DawnFoster | 22:30 |
| lbt | mmm not sure that's true though | 22:30 |
| lcuk | timeless_mbp, yes and no | 22:30 |
| lcuk | lbt mentioned about making a list | 22:30 |
| lbt | and it starts empty today | 22:31 |
| arjan | a list is hard | 22:31 |
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| arjan | do you need to document everything from 2.6.28 forward? | 22:31 |
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| arjan | or only from 2.6.35 | 22:31 |
| lbt | no | 22:31 |
| arjan | etc | 22:31 |
| lbt | 2.6.36 | 22:31 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, I like that ceveat, it could realistically become part of standard definition of specification agreements. | 22:32 |
| arjan | I'm more in favor of a joint "what we encountered in practice" wiki that's shared between maintainers of these adaptation kernels | 22:32 |
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| arjan | joined learnings kind of thing but pragmatic | 22:32 |
| lcuk | seems reasonable arjan | 22:32 |
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| lbt | OK - so letting adaptation kernel maintainers report breakage against 'in-range' kernels | 22:33 |
| lbt | and documenting that | 22:33 |
| arjan | and share backports even | 22:33 |
| lbt | the idea really was some mechanism to support that - a wiki is good | 22:33 |
| lbt | sometimes developers will see a new kernel feature and decide to support it ... how to encourage them to communicate that? | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | arjan: one thing: is the idea still for reference kernel patches and adaptation kernel patches to be mailed to meego-devel and reviewed there? | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | err | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | meego-kernel | 22:34 |
| arjan | Stskeeps: reference yes | 22:34 |
| arjan | adaptation I'm fine with a per adaptation/board list as well | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 22:35 |
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| arjan | if there's a well functional porting team... we should just leverage that and let them do their most efficient thing | 22:35 |
| arjan | which unlikely is meego-kernel but a per board/platform kind of list | 22:36 |
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| dagger | I would like to port meego sdk to Gentoo linux. Who's the best person to talk to about it? | 22:37 |
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| lbt | kyb3R: better discussed in here | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | kyb3R: i personally see no problem as long as you don't conflict with other meetings going on :) | 22:38 |
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| ile_ | Stskeeps: Should we have n900 mailing list for patches? | 22:38 |
| lbt | there's a wiki page for scheduling and explaining policy | 22:38 |
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| DawnFoster | ile_: can you use the meego-handset mailing list, instead? | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | i'd rather piggyback on meego-kernel as we'd utterly destroy meego-handset with all the patches :) | 22:40 |
| npm | so what's tomorrow's meeting that i'm supposed to ask those questions about camera/video capture? | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | npm: http://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N900/Meetings | 22:41 |
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| DawnFoster | wow, a TSG meeting that ends *early* - sweet! | 22:41 |
| maclaver | Christmas is coming early | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | ile_: and determine a prefix to use or something like [N900] or something.. | 22:41 |
| lcuk | npm but put it in AOB section or make detailed proposal for next week | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | but time to sleep for me, meeting tomorrow.. | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 22:41 |
| ile_ | I agree with Stskeeps - m-kernel rather than m-handset | 22:42 |
| npm | Stskeeps: the URL doesn't say much about the meeting | 22:42 |
| ile_ | Yep, prefixing would be good idea | 22:42 |
| lcuk | npm agreed | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | npm: scroll down | 22:42 |
| DawnFoster | if they're kernel patches, meego-kernel is definitely the place | 22:42 |
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| timoph | DawnFoster: are you adding new blog feeds to the planet? And related to that I added qa-tools team blog to the candidates list without a link to meego.com user profile. I hope that's ok.. | 22:45 |
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| DawnFoster | timoph: I think Henri is adding them to the new planet software, which should replace the existing one shortly (a few more bugs to work out) | 22:45 |
| andre__ | in general I wonder how to get a blog (like mine :-P) onto the meego planet. do we have guidelines somewhere? | 22:46 |
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| timoph | andre__: http://wiki.meego.com/Planet.meego.com | 22:46 |
| andre__ | but that's probably something for after the new planet software has been deployed | 22:46 |
| timoph | DawnFoster: thanks | 22:46 |
| andre__ | heh. yay for my search skills :-) | 22:46 |
| timoph | :) | 22:46 |
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| timoph | ~seen bergie | 22:47 |
| infobot | bergie <~bergie@dsl-hkibrasgw2-fef3de00-234.dhcp.inet.fi> was last seen on IRC in channel #meego, 20d 2h 43m 20s ago, saying: 'lcuk: sure... http://www.dopplr.com/traveller/bergie'. | 22:47 |
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| DawnFoster | andre__: no, it's active now, go ahead and add your blog to the Candidates section | 22:50 |
| npm | o | 22:51 |
| andre__ | done. thanks :) | 22:51 |
| lbt | hey vivijim :) | 22:52 |
| * lbt is guessing OBS access ? | 22:52 | |
| vivijim | lbt: hi! exactly ;) | 22:52 |
| timoph | :) | 22:53 |
| lbt | so ... quick question : what do you plan to do... | 22:53 |
| lbt | open source app writing/porting? | 22:53 |
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| * lbt wanders off to do some work ... ping me when you're back vivijim | 22:55 | |
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| vivijim | lbt: well, I'm interested in writting, porting, testing and everything else... I'm currently working for Nokia in a performance team and I need to help every test and port to Meego... | 22:56 |
| lbt | ah... so do you want the community OBS or the core OBS ? | 22:57 |
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| vivijim | lbt: I didn't know about the core obs... but if possible I'd get both... in my daily work I have to be involved with a bit of everything | 23:00 |
| lbt | OK -what's your meego.com account | 23:00 |
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| vivijim | lbt: vivijim | 23:01 |
| lbt | done | 23:01 |
| lbt | the community OBS only has 3 workers at the moment so keep that in mind :) | 23:02 |
| vivijim | Thank you very much! I will! ;) | 23:03 |
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| timoph | lbt: btw, any estimate when we'll see boss up and running? (been hearing that question a lot lately) | 23:04 |
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| lbt | yeah.... "2010" | 23:05 |
| timoph | :) | 23:05 |
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| lbt | what are you hoping to do with it? | 23:06 |
| lcuk | lbt, you are a bit late :P its 21:00 now | 23:06 |
| lbt | (and I assume you mean community) | 23:06 |
| timoph | dunno if it's any use for the community | 23:06 |
| * lbt looks for a kipper and eyes lcuk... | 23:06 | |
| ali1234 | lbt: are you keeping a tally on "what people plan to do with it?" | 23:07 |
| lbt | you'd think the core guys would talk to me about BOSS ... but hey | 23:07 |
| lbt | ali1234: yes | 23:07 |
| timoph | you might now already that we're running nightly tests in ots.meego.com | 23:07 |
| ali1234 | lbt: cool, when will we see some report on the results? | 23:07 |
| lbt | ali1234: mainly interested for future design/development priorities | 23:08 |
| lbt | timoph: no, didn't realise | 23:08 |
| timoph | I'm building images for that on my test server.. | 23:08 |
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| lbt | I know Adam is setting up the IMG workers 'soon' | 23:08 |
| lbt | and that needs a BOSS setup | 23:08 |
| timoph | yep. I'm using a 7 line shell script to do boss' job :) | 23:09 |
| timoph | well, not the whole job.. | 23:10 |
| lbt | doesn't surprise me | 23:10 |
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| timoph | http://ots.meego.com/logger/view/ | 23:10 |
| lbt | BOSS is essentially a shell-script type system | 23:10 |
| ali1234 | well, that doesn't really answer my question... | 23:10 |
| lbt | ali1234: "you won't" :) | 23:10 |
| ali1234 | that bad huh? | 23:11 |
| timoph | we're still waiting to be able to automatically send results to qa-reports.m.c from ots | 23:11 |
| lbt | no... just not planning on writing a report. We'll be doing some work on making it easier to "get running" | 23:11 |
| ali1234 | how about at least a pie chart or something? | 23:11 |
| dagger | can anyone tell me, where can I get md5_shaX-obsd-201011.tar.gz ? | 23:12 |
| lbt | ali1234: (> | 23:13 |
| lbt | happy? | 23:13 |
| timoph | :) | 23:13 |
| ali1234 | not really, you didn't label it | 23:13 |
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| ali1234 | i'm just curious what is the relative proportion of people porting existing open source apps/writing original open source meego apps/just need something to kickstart their own OBS for closed development/didn't know the difference between community and core OBS | 23:15 |
| timoph | that actually would be fun to know | 23:19 |
| lbt | ah... those questions | 23:19 |
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| lbt | MohammadAG: nah, OBS is OK here | 23:22 |
| MohammadAG | cool :) | 23:22 |
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| MohammadAG | lbt, do OBS builds go to a public repo, or can builds be private? | 23:22 |
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| MohammadAG | (by private, I mean sources are available for everyone who checks the page, but don't go in the main repos) | 23:23 |
| lbt | you can choose not to "publish" a binary package | 23:23 |
| alterego | MohammadAG: that's default for your account in the community obs | 23:23 |
| lbt | but nothing is "private" on the community OBS | 23:23 |
| alterego | private as in personal :) | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | lbt, and it's open to everyone right? | 23:24 |
| alterego | lbt: how's the fremantle obs going? :) | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, thanks :) | 23:24 |
| lbt | also... you will build in your 'home' area | 23:24 |
| lbt | and eventually promote to "Extras" | 23:24 |
| lbt | when it's in your home you have a PPA | 23:24 |
| MohammadAG | oh so it's not like the current builder for maemo | 23:24 |
| alterego | No, | 23:25 |
| lbt | no, it's a bit different | 23:25 |
| alterego | It's kind of cooler :) | 23:25 |
| lbt | everyone has their own personal 'Extras Devel' | 23:25 |
| alterego | Kind of like launchpad for ubuntu I guess | 23:25 |
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| * MohammadAG remembers when X-Fade showed him live builds | 23:25 | |
| MohammadAG | lbt, and it's open to anyone with a meego.com account right? | 23:25 |
| * MohammadAG reads wiki | 23:26 | |
| lbt | MohammadAG: yes | 23:27 |
| lbt | want to be enabled? | 23:27 |
| lbt | I thought I did you | 23:27 |
| alterego | kinky | 23:27 |
| lbt | heh | 23:27 |
| MohammadAG | alterego, very o_O | 23:27 |
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| MohammadAG | lbt, can't remember tbh :) | 23:27 |
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| lbt | your meego.com acc | 23:28 |
| alterego | Try logging in with your meego.com accout | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | lbt, I think my account is mohammad7410 | 23:28 |
| alterego | ~account | 23:28 |
| lbt | done | 23:28 |
| lbt | it wasn't enabled | 23:28 |
| alterego | :) | 23:28 |
| alterego | He's very efficient ^.^ | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | I think I had a fremantle OBS account | 23:28 |
| MohammadAG | lbt, thanks :) | 23:28 |
| lbt | who said fremantle... it's not moving right now | 23:29 |
| alterego | Oh :( | 23:29 |
| alterego | Really looking forward to that. | 23:29 |
| MohammadAG | lbt, there was one, I'm sure I had an account that's OBS related and not for MeeGo/openSUSE :) | 23:30 |
| lbt | need time | 23:30 |
| alterego | Especially if we get a Harmattan OBS too ;) | 23:30 |
| lbt | there is a maemo OBS | 23:30 |
| lbt | and it has fremantle | 23:30 |
| lbt | and you can have an account | 23:30 |
| lbt | but it's old meego | 23:30 |
| alterego | No, I want it for integration with meego development. | 23:30 |
| lbt | yep | 23:31 |
| alterego | For cross-dev, it'd be cool if you could make a Symbian obs system too. Though that is not trivial. | 23:31 |
| MohammadAG | are OBS builds done in threads? i.e, do I delay other builds if say, I sent a kernel source to it? | 23:31 |
| * lbt crawls back from the floor | 23:31 | |
| MohammadAG | alterego, I have a better suggestion, pull the plug on Symbian ;) | 23:31 |
| lbt | MohammadAG: you do | 23:31 |
| lbt | it's not threads.... each build gets a Xen VM | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | hmm | 23:32 |
| alterego | Heh | 23:32 |
| MohammadAG | so all accounts share the same server? | 23:32 |
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| lbt | pool of servers... yes | 23:33 |
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| lbt | the VMs are recreated each time | 23:33 |
| MohammadAG | oh, similar to each build on the current maemo builder then | 23:33 |
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| MohammadAG | better look into a local OBS, going to experiment with kernels :P | 23:34 |
| lbt | no need | 23:34 |
| lbt | 'osc build' does what you want | 23:34 |
| lbt | it essentially creates the same 'worker' on your desktop that the OBS would use | 23:35 |
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| BManojlovic | especially if you use virtual machine build way | 23:41 |
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| lbt | well, locally it uses a chroot ... same basic principle and 99.9% good enough | 23:45 |
| BManojlovic | true | 23:46 |
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| jonnor | it would be nice with awesome with lxc integration | 23:46 |
| lbt | yeah, been mentioned | 23:46 |
| lbt | it's all opensource.... feel free to dive in (that's how I got started) | 23:47 |
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