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| ChildOfGod | How do i build the netbook-ux from source? | 10:27 |
|---|---|---|
| lbt | ChildOfGod: this is the chan for that kind of issue. | 10:31 |
| ChildOfGod | lbt: ok. | 10:31 |
| lbt | Sadly I don't know the answer or I'd help | 10:31 |
| ChildOfGod | lbt: so could you point me to a link here please? | 10:31 |
| ChildOfGod | ok. | 10:31 |
| lbt | it sounds like you are missing a dependency... | 10:31 |
| ChildOfGod | I just want to modify a few of the ux elements. | 10:32 |
| ChildOfGod | yes but i dont see that package anywhere | 10:32 |
| ChildOfGod | there are some flags that can be set like MPL_CFLAGS or MPL_CLIBS | 10:32 |
| ChildOfGod | but i dont know what to fill up there | 10:32 |
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| fabo | lbt: my build still fails with No space left on device | 10:37 |
| lbt | fabo: what are you building? | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | compiling qt? | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:37 |
| lbt | X-Fade: we need an OBS entry on teh bugz | 10:38 |
| fabo | yeah, Qt :) | 10:38 |
| lbt | tough | 10:38 |
| lbt | use gtk | 10:38 |
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| fabo | last time I used gtk, it was like 10 years ago ... | 10:39 |
| lbt | OK ... me and X-Fade discussed on friday... I'll up the VM disk space ASAP :) | 10:39 |
| fabo | lbt: he raised the disk space already | 10:39 |
| lbt | oh... how much space does Qt need to build? | 10:40 |
| fabo | he asked to retry on saturday | 10:40 |
| fabo | lbt: 6-8 Go dependeing on features | 10:40 |
| lbt | yeah - I thought we upped it to 10G | 10:41 |
| fabo | strange then | 10:41 |
| fabo | 10G should be fine | 10:41 |
| lbt | let me log in | 10:41 |
| fabo | (and I build without qtwebkit :P) | 10:43 |
| fabo | lbt: 6Go is enough on Debian builders | 10:45 |
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| lbt | fabo: good news.... they're only 6Gb | 10:48 |
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| ChildOfGod | I need to modify a few items on the meego netbook ux. Is this what I need to follow http://wiki.meego.com/Developing_in_a_Meego_Environment ? | 11:13 |
| ChildOfGod | I simply need to remove a few things from meego-panel-myzone | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | i would use the netbook sdk. | 11:14 |
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| ChildOfGod | Stskeeps: i am doing the same, but inside the netbook sdk chroot itself i am unable to build | 11:15 |
| ChildOfGod | it says "meego-panel" not found | 11:16 |
| ChildOfGod | and i cant find any such package. | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | grab the source rpm? | 11:16 |
| Myrtti | more coffee! | 11:16 |
| ChildOfGod | Stskeeps: meego-panel source rpm? | 11:16 |
| ChildOfGod | but there is no such package that i can see | 11:16 |
| Stskeeps | repo.meego.com, go look | 11:16 |
| X-Fade | Myrtti: Good idea! | 11:17 |
| Myrtti | AND coconut cookies. | 11:19 |
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| ChildOfGod | Stskeeps: there is no package meego-panel :( | 11:24 |
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| ChildOfGod | Stskeeps: hey i think i fixed it. | 11:32 |
| ChildOfGod | just enabled the source repo and installed it. | 11:32 |
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| ChildOfGod | mmm, not working........ | 11:34 |
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| Stskeeps | morn slaine | 11:45 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: ugh, morning | 11:45 |
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| mansson | Hi. The instructions for using the handset UX kickstart file says you need to have Fedora 12. For all other development Ubuntu 9.10 has been recommended. Has anyone tried kickstart on Ubuntu or do I need to get F12 (F13?)? | 11:55 |
| lcuk | i detect a global "urg monday" feeling in pretty much every channel i've looked in! | 11:55 |
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| amjad | morning slaine | 12:01 |
| slaine | morning amjad | 12:02 |
| slaine | lcuk, it's raining, it's humid and I didn't sleep well | 12:02 |
| slaine | conditions are perfect for an "ugh" monday | 12:02 |
| amjad | monday blues :) | 12:03 |
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| ChildOfGod | Could someone point me to the mutter-meego rpm package? Is it still in use or is it deprecated? | 14:31 |
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| InformatiQ | where is the official repo to get MIC2? | 14:41 |
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| w00t_ | InformatiQ: http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-developer-tools | 14:42 |
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| InformatiQ | w00t_: that is the git repo | 14:43 |
| InformatiQ | w00t_: i am looking fot the rpm repo | 14:43 |
| w00t_ | repo.meego.com/tools/, then | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | which is often out of date | 14:44 |
| w00t_ | often => pretty much always :P | 14:44 |
| fabo | :) | 14:45 |
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| InformatiQ | it is still at 0.17 | 14:45 |
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| InformatiQ | i found this http://download.meego.com/live/devel:/tools:/building/openSUSE_11.3/ | 14:46 |
| fabo | InformatiQ: http://alioth.debian.org/~fabo/mic2-0.19-2.1.noarch.rpm | 14:46 |
| InformatiQ | fabo: is that reliable version (looks weired being n rpm on debian.org) | 14:47 |
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| fabo | InformatiQ: it is, unfortunately. | 14:47 |
| InformatiQ | thanks fabo | 14:48 |
| fabo | InformatiQ: you're not the 1st to ask for mic2 package and I'm able to provide it. | 14:48 |
| niadh | Does anyone know how to get DVD playback working on MeeGo? I have a USB powered DVD burner that when I plug into meego it doesnt recognise/cant read discs. Was wondering if its a library missing or something? | 14:48 |
| fabo | unfortunately, I have access to my personal space on alioth only. | 14:48 |
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| DevSibwarra | may someone help me installing meego on my N210? | 15:08 |
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| dneary | DevSibwarra, Samsung N210? | 15:25 |
| DevSibwarra | yes | 15:25 |
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| DevSibwarra | working with meego when starting from the usb stick works perfectly | 15:25 |
| DevSibwarra | but the installation doesnt work :/ i get a black screen after the first restart | 15:26 |
| DevSibwarra | with a cursor | 15:26 |
| dneary | DevSibwarra, I know that I had major issues with graphics driver for the NC10 - not sure how close they are | 15:26 |
| DevSibwarra | hmm... but the netbooks have all the same driver? and it works starting it from the usb stick :/ | 15:27 |
| dneary | DevSibwarra, Try booking the kernel with init=/bin/sh and see if you get anywhere? | 15:27 |
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| dneary | DevSibwarra, The chips are different, I think | 15:27 |
| dneary | Don't let me freak you out, I don't really know much :) | 15:27 |
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| DevSibwarra | me too ^^ | 15:28 |
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| amjad | sample media takes forever to install while developing a image | 15:51 |
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| lcuk | do we have any filesystem engineers around here? i am pondering unionfs hammering to have a "preferred" faster storage space below the slower larger one with automatic movement between the layers | 16:56 |
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| TSCHAKeee | lcuk: go for it | 16:58 |
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| lcuk | TSCHAKeee, everywhere i am looking is telling me that file system engineering is a VERY precise and difficult task, hence seeking some indepth knowledge from the experts :) | 16:59 |
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| muny | hi | 17:10 |
| townxelliot | amjad: can't you remove it from the package list in the kickstart file if it's taking too long? | 17:10 |
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| lcuk | why havent i seen a mail i sent to meego-dev - does it not come back to me until someone replies? | 17:52 |
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| Stskeeps | fairly standard behaviour? | 17:53 |
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| galatage | Hi I wanted to know how to get battery information on meego using some c/c++ library ? | 17:59 |
| galatage | I am interested in getting the battery status i.e. remaining battery life etc .. so any help ? | 18:00 |
| trip0 | galatage, you can get it using c/c++ dbus-bindings to uPower/devicekit.power | 18:00 |
| trip0 | galatage, netbook? | 18:00 |
| trip0 | or handset? | 18:00 |
| galatage | trip0, netbook | 18:00 |
| trip0 | galatage, yeah, use devicekit | 18:01 |
| lcuk | is there a direct qt api for getting this kind of info | 18:01 |
| trip0 | lcuk, nope | 18:01 |
| trip0 | http://meego.gitorious.org/meego-handset-ux/contextkit-meego/trees/master/battery | 18:02 |
| trip0 | that's the contextkit provider for battery on handset | 18:02 |
| trip0 | which uses devicekit.power | 18:02 |
| Stskeeps | which reminds me we should probably make a devicekit.power plugin for bme at some point.. | 18:02 |
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| trip0 | Stskeeps, bme is the maemo thingy? | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | it's that annoying little blob we'd rather be rid of, yes ;) | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | (no offense to it's authors, just licensing) | 18:04 |
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| trip0 | ah yes. i remember now. the old contextkit provider communicated over some ipc to the bme | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 18:04 |
| trip0 | and thus we had to write a new one for meego | 18:04 |
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| Stskeeps | makes sense | 18:04 |
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| Stskeeps | probably best to die in with devicekit | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | er, tie | 18:04 |
| galatage | trip0, thank you... | 18:04 |
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| Stskeeps | amjad: add -sample-media to ks | 18:06 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: could you remind me again where the OSU server related stuff (IRC etc) was? can't locate it again :/ | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | nevermind - found it in bookmarks | 18:14 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: ha, was just sending you the link | 18:14 |
| DawnFoster | thanks | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | Web_infrastructure isn't linked from mshaver's link at community office so was lost :) | 18:14 |
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| Stskeeps | povbot, version | 18:18 |
| povbot | Stskeeps: The current (running) version of this Supybot is 0.83.4.1. The newest version available online is 0.83.4.1. | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | oh, that's nice - same as meetbot | 18:18 |
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| DawnFoster | it's linked now | 18:21 |
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| Stskeeps | thanks | 18:21 |
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| Stskeeps | added some details on the irc setup, will add proposal for OSU after researching a bit | 18:23 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: http://wiki.meego.com/Web_infrastructure/IRC general overview of what's needed - plan to add some more ideas on metrics input | 18:42 |
| Stskeeps | mgedmin has volunteered for helping set up the bot and similar logging setup as he has (as well as a tarball of the previous #meego logs) | 18:43 |
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| DawnFoster | stskeeps: cool, thanks | 18:44 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders if he can locate some notes on what was discussed at cls10 about the challenges of combining maemo and moblin | 18:49 | |
| w00t_ | Stskeeps: logging is done via supybot at the moment? useful | 18:50 |
| w00t_ | there's a lot of supybot modules around :) | 18:50 |
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| DawnFoster | stskeeps: those were my comments | 18:54 |
| DawnFoster | :) | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: ah :) | 18:54 |
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| DawnFoster | mostly about taking 2 established communities that were very different and slapping them together to be one big community | 18:54 |
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| DawnFoster | didn't get into any real details | 18:56 |
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| Stskeeps | i am starting to have a theory that our problem isn't so much 2 established communities, but that we're merging actually a small bunch of communities instead - like, intel internal community working on moblin, moblin 'users', the maemo development team and maemo.org, the system developers of maemo.org vs the application developers of maemo.org.. etc | 18:57 |
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| DawnFoster | I think they are also very different audiences - moblin was more of a kernel coder community, while Maemo has a lot of device enthusiasts | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, hopefully we can all get along but some collisions may occour/have occoured | 18:58 |
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| DawnFoster | those 2 audiences don't necessarily come together easily | 18:58 |
| GAN900 | Olive branches help | 18:58 |
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| Stskeeps | i kind of like the CO's mission of 'The Community Office (CO) defines the strategy for collaboration tools and processes within the MeeGo project, and observes its implementation. ', - ie, being there to grease the wheels of the whole community and help others get into it | 19:03 |
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| Stskeeps | by community meaning entire project + activities around it | 19:03 |
| DawnFoster | and I've been trying to make suggestions for where we really need help: http://wiki.meego.com/Contributing_to_MeeGo (this page needs to be vastly simplified) | 19:05 |
| DawnFoster | the twice monthly community meetings were also designed to help people find areas where they can contribute: http://wiki.meego.com/Community_Office/Meetings | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | i was thinking of setting up some levels of openness, as in, a list of places with for example how deep they can contribute at this time - how (is there meetings, is there a mailing list, can i tell who's involved, where is their gitorious ..).. not as a blame sheet but more as a guide | 19:07 |
| DawnFoster | we have a meeting tomorrow (hint) | 19:07 |
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| GAN900 | Less stop motion would be good. | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: we often complain a lot here and you deal with us quite well even though we're unreasonable at times :).. - i got pondering the other day: what do you think is the biggest problem(s) we have at the moment? and perhaps also, what do you think are the best things that are going on in the project? | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | EIPI used to do interviews with various community people, could be nice to have some of those for MeeGo in general, as to help personify people instead of just their roles | 19:12 |
| DawnFoster | yeah, I would love to get people moving from complaining to doing :) | 19:12 |
| DawnFoster | biggest issue right now is that users in the forums aren't getting answers to their questions | 19:12 |
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| DawnFoster | I also think that one of the more exciting areas coming up will be application development - it's critical to the success of MeeGo, and people are going to need help getting familiar with the tools. | 19:14 |
| DawnFoster | This is why I'm so excited to see w00t's project: http://wiki.meego.com/DeveloperEngagement | 19:15 |
| lcuk | biggest issue right now for people is that you have to have uber linux skills and/or a phd to get it installed or have money to buy first a new machine, then be brave enough to wipe the main OS from it. images and kickstarts and faff and extreme specifications for a linux distribution technically not that different to ubuntu. I am not even going into the complexity of trying the handset image. | 19:16 |
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| DawnFoster | right now, all of our images are developer images | 19:16 |
| lcuk | sure, wheres the live cd for intel machines? | 19:16 |
| DawnFoster | they are designed so that OEMs can take them and re-package them on a system | 19:16 |
| lcuk | well those OEMs are people too | 19:17 |
| lcuk | and if they can stick a cd in a machine and show boss | 19:17 |
| lcuk | you just won a battle | 19:17 |
| DawnFoster | lcuk: my point is that end users should go the OEM route | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: there's still a bit of ambivalence if meego's targetting users or not, especially with how it gets presented on web site and such | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | that said, i do have some forum threads i should answer on | 19:18 |
| DawnFoster | OEMs have tons of test machines sitting around - the problem you described is an end use issue - not an oem issue | 19:18 |
| andyross | To be fair: the OEMs want better images too. It's new software, everyone wants it to work better than it does. | 19:18 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, the guy sat in his office with that machine | 19:18 |
| DawnFoster | stskeeps: yeah, it's a huge issue & one that I spend a lot of time talking to Imad about | 19:18 |
| lcuk | can just stick a cd in and see OS | 19:18 |
| lcuk | to know to go to his boss | 19:18 |
| DawnFoster | that's why we have live bootable images off a thumb drive | 19:18 |
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| Stskeeps | DawnFoster: on the other hand, to get sufficient brand hype for the upcoming devices that are 'MeeGo' brand, something needs to be done like it has been :/ | 19:19 |
| GAN900 | Too many times people come in with an idea or a question and the answers do everything but encourage contribution | 19:19 |
| GAN900 | I realize part of that is due to infra and processes not being in place | 19:19 |
| GAN900 | But it's discouraging and energy sapping all the same | 19:20 |
| GAN900 | It'd be nice to see some more effort to reach out to that positive energy and utilize it. | 19:20 |
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| lcuk | DawnFoster, there are 100s of linux distributions. the greatest majority who want to be user friendly make it simple to get tested on machines, make it simple to see things. ive seen people literally melt by trying to go through the red tape required to get things started | 19:21 |
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| DawnFoster | GAN900: to be honest, it's really draining and discouraging for me, too. I keep trying to suggest where people can get involved, yet I see little involvement compared to the level of complaining. | 19:22 |
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| GAN900 | DawnFoster, obviously there's a problem then. | 19:33 |
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| GAN900 | Personally I got discouraged early on when questions and input were answered primarily with silence or sometimes with stop motion. | 19:34 |
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| GAN900 | and I haven't been able to work up the energy to keep trying. :) | 19:34 |
| DawnFoster | The first few months of the project were frustrating for everyone during the transition to getting the code out in the open. | 19:36 |
| GAN900 | As far as I can tell, many (most?) of the high-profile contributors in Maemo are in a similar place. | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | i think one of the problems is that we've been fighting for more involvement in platform from maemo.org site, more input taken into the development, transparency, etc.. and now we really don't have a place for that | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | making processes, volunteering for bugsquads, or other things | 19:36 |
| trip0 | hmm | 19:36 |
| Stskeeps | some of these people could make the best HR/administration in meego, to grease things and work towards solutions :P | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | but i think that it 'feels' like we're at scratch also discourages, as the problems in maemo were big in those areas and took out a lot of energy already before meego came about | 19:38 |
| trip0 | i don't understand the problem | 19:38 |
| Stskeeps | i have good hopes for august, however - my personal worry is that when people pop out and say hi, noone's there to shake their hands :P | 19:38 |
| trip0 | what's in august? | 19:39 |
| Stskeeps | people return refreshed from holidays | 19:39 |
| trip0 | ahh | 19:39 |
| GAN900 | DawnFoster, targetting only OEMs with your images is a bit silly when there's so much advertising going on about open and getting contributors involved. | 19:39 |
| trip0 | :P | 19:39 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: me and lbt discussed at some point to have Mer being a MeeGo 'OEM', which was more towards end users | 19:40 |
| DawnFoster | I didn't say we were only targeting OEMs. I said this was a developer image and that end users should use images from OEMs | 19:40 |
| GAN900 | So either the images need to be friendly or the public website just needs to shut down and move everything internal | 19:40 |
| DawnFoster | I'd expect developers to use these images | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | my anti-reasoning was that patches into meego would probably be welcome | 19:40 |
| trip0 | Stskeeps, +1 | 19:41 |
| DawnFoster | I would love to see people fixing things and submitting patches | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | it is slowly but firmly getting there as more people see how processes work and where to go | 19:42 |
| lbt | and the community OBS is looking functional... it should provide a way to ease into MeeGo core development | 19:42 |
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| Stskeeps | the interest into community OBS was really encouraging in that area, yeah | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | imagine if we'd had that from the start, heh :) | 19:43 |
| lbt | I need the maemo guys to show more interest there | 19:43 |
| trip0 | community obs will be the awesome | 19:43 |
| trip0 | i need to do something with it :P | 19:43 |
| lbt | I didn't really want to 'launch' it on the maemo.org server | 19:43 |
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| lbt | but the OSU servers are being installed by the hardware pixies | 19:44 |
| trip0 | :| | 19:44 |
| lbt | I would say we're in the hands of the hardware gods... but since they appear to lack the ability to move a server I now imagine them as tiny green pixies fluttering around the racks being ineffectual... | 19:44 |
| GAN900 | DawnFoster, except no such thing exists right now. | 19:45 |
| GAN900 | DawnFoster, and enthusiasm is going out the door because of it. | 19:46 |
| DawnFoster | GAN900: not sure what you mean it doesn't exist right now? | 19:46 |
| GAN900 | Ubuntu is a better example to model from as far as this goes, in my opinion. | 19:46 |
| GAN900 | DawnFoster, what OEM images? | 19:46 |
| GAN900 | i.e., "Pay to play"? :) | 19:47 |
| DawnFoster | GAN900: as you know, it takes time | 19:47 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: if you had the shot and the role/mandate to do something in MeeGo, what would it be? | 19:47 |
| DawnFoster | the OEMs get the images at the same time as the community | 19:47 |
| DawnFoster | Let's focus on solutions here rather than problems | 19:47 |
| * lbt would like to see MeeGo 'runnable' on any laptop... even ... <shock> an AMD one | 19:48 | |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, problem: linux community typically makes use of older tech - linux itself is installed on everything. | 19:48 |
| DawnFoster | lbt: great, patches? :) | 19:48 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: i think we could go a long way by making patches for NVIDIA graphics alone | 19:48 |
| DawnFoster | and the first version of linux only ran on 386 with AT drives | 19:48 |
| lbt | DawnFoster: first I have to build a build system to build my patches on.... | 19:48 |
| DawnFoster | because that's what Linus owned | 19:48 |
| lbt | and I'm doing that :) | 19:48 |
| DawnFoster | it takes time to build in support for everything | 19:49 |
| lcuk | DawnFoster, but NOW linux runs on everything - and you are based on linux | 19:49 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: even a ubuntu like system of fetching things | 19:49 |
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| lbt | I would like to see the community OBS build a generic X86 MeeGo | 19:49 |
| w00t_ | lcuk: it runs on everything because people contribute to it to make it run on everything | 19:49 |
| w00t_ | that didn't just happen out of thin air | 19:49 |
| lcuk | w00t_, it already did happen | 19:49 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, given that no devices exist and given that there's no focus on users or enthusiasts, I don't think there's a role I could fill. | 19:49 |
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| lbt | GAN900: do you have a laptop? | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: if maemo had been fully open source, had there been any role for you to fit then? | 19:50 |
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| ScottishDuck | When you expand the available platforms, you add drivers, compatibility layers | 19:50 |
| lbt | Stskeeps: nvidia? I'd rather focus on radeon | 19:50 |
| ScottishDuck | Things get bloated | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: or radeon | 19:50 |
| lcuk | ScottishDuck, ok, so stick with intel only | 19:50 |
| lcuk | intel chipsets intel cpus | 19:50 |
| * lbt only buys ATI if at all possible :) | 19:50 | |
| ScottishDuck | ugh ATi | 19:51 |
| lbt | you'd rather buy nvidia? | 19:51 |
| ScottishDuck | Yes | 19:51 |
| w00t_ | Stskeeps: lbt: both should be possible, noveau is supposed to be more usable nowdays | 19:51 |
| * lbt stabs ScottishDuck with a blob | 19:51 | |
| ScottishDuck | nouveau is great in 2D, getting there in 3D | 19:51 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, given the focus of maemo.org, yes. | 19:51 |
| lcuk | http://www.ubuntu.com/news/canonical-dell-deliver-ubuntu-moblin-remix | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | as a developer community? :P | 19:51 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, my roles don't have a lot to do with sourciness, I think. | 19:51 |
| lcuk | where did those patches go? | 19:52 |
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| w00t_ | GAN900: that's a cryptic answer | 19:53 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, as community facilitator? Sometimes bugzilla filer/triager/admin, and documentation "guy"? | 19:54 |
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| GAN900 | w00t_, because I don't have a well-crystalized view on things. | 19:54 |
| GAN900 | Otherwise I'd have more to say about solutions. :) | 19:54 |
| w00t_ | GAN900: so, greasing the wheels.. keeping things moving and pointing people in the right directions? | 19:54 |
| GAN900 | w00t_, more or less. | 19:55 |
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| GAN900 | But bugzilla doesn't appear to need my assistance, the docs are developer-oriented and not of much interest to me and community facilitation isn't enthusiat oriented and doesn't seem particularly interesed in my input. | 19:57 |
| lcuk | GAN900, you are official keyboard tester | 19:57 |
| lcuk | you can type faster than anyone i know on a mobile device and did more to convince people they were usable for "normal" tasks than anyone i remember | 19:58 |
| lcuk | you got a bit more grumpy recently ;) but dude you were using nokias as full time things when lots were still poking randomly | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | GAN900: i'd say bugzilla still needs assistance, especially the new QA structure being set up | 19:59 |
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| Stskeeps | seems like they're really doing the 'right thing' with active developers in bugzilla, weekly images and all that and in the open too - it might be that QA is too fast for the rest of us at times :) | 20:00 |
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| GAN900 | Stskeeps, perhaps, but there isn't a real obvious in | 20:07 |
| GAN900 | Feels a bit like the Maemo QA days. | 20:07 |
| timeless_mbp | does bugs.meego.com actually do stuff? | 20:08 |
| timeless_mbp | i've filed things | 20:08 |
| timeless_mbp | but it feels nearly as useful as symbian's bugzilla | 20:08 |
| timeless_mbp | (actually, symbian has two bugzillas, one for web content, one for engineering product) | 20:08 |
| timeless_mbp | (the former is vaguely useful, the latter is mostly depressing) | 20:09 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, as an enthusiast community, by the way. | 20:09 |
| GAN900 | Stskeeps, MeeGo seems more interested in courting OEMs and leaving enthusiasts out in the cold. | 20:10 |
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| trip0 | GAN900, maemo would be nothing if it didn't have an OEM behind it with actual products | 20:10 |
| GAN900 | While saying Intel shouldn't have to provide support for their competitors' products is reasonable enough, I think that position really does a lot of damage to the project in the short term. | 20:10 |
| GAN900 | trip0, no shit. | 20:10 |
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| trip0 | thus, you wouldn't be here ;) | 20:11 |
| GAN900 | There's a lot to be said for striking a balance | 20:11 |
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| GAN900 | and I have areas I can contribute expertise in | 20:11 |
| trip0 | and something is preventing you from doing that? | 20:12 |
| GAN900 | enthusiast communities are foremost, probably. | 20:12 |
| GAN900 | trip0, I tried initially, was met with stop motion and/or silence. | 20:12 |
| GAN900 | Now I'm mostly burnt out. :) | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | trip0: GAN900 is not alone | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | i don't work for intel | 20:12 |
| timeless_mbp | but i do work for some company which supposedly has some interest in MeeGo | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | and i haven't really felt any way to usefully contribute | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | i've found friendly people | 20:13 |
| timeless_mbp | but mostly voids | 20:13 |
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| trip0 | any specific issues? | 20:13 |
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| trip0 | i've seen lots of community involvement in bugs | 20:14 |
| trip0 | also in the community obs | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | i've filed a number of bugs | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | most of them are in some random ignored state | 20:14 |
| timeless_mbp | which is i think actually worse than my experience w/ symbian (for dev bugs) | 20:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | i worked in one community meeting and got approval to provide a service | 20:15 |
| timeless_mbp | it's now stuck in some bureaucratic procedure void | 20:15 |
| timeless_mbp | i tried to get involved in a community, the charter of which was rejected | 20:15 |
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| timeless_mbp | that community's organizer has indicated that the problems the community wanted to address are suffering and have been since day 1 | 20:16 |
| timeless_mbp | (and that person works for intel) | 20:16 |
| timeless_mbp | the official statement from the TSG was that the area should be integrated instead of being split out | 20:16 |
| timeless_mbp | the form of integration according to this person is ~not doing it at all~ | 20:17 |
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| trip0 | timeless_mbp, what service are you wanting to work ong? | 20:17 |
| trip0 | on* | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | mxr | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | (a pilot of which can be seen @ mxr.moego.org ) | 20:17 |
| timeless_mbp | and wanting to work on it is kinda um… odd | 20:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it's done | 20:18 |
| timeless_mbp | it just wants a cname | 20:18 |
| GAN900 | There isn't a lot of facilitation of "just do it". | 20:18 |
| timeless_mbp | which i was promised | 20:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | in an official meeting | 20:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | trip0: anyway, my battery is running low | 20:18 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm starving | 20:18 |
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| timeless_mbp | i'm supposed to be somewhere in <45 mins | 20:18 |
| GAN900 | timeless_mbp, has a nice evening. :) | 20:18 |
| timeless_mbp | most of the people there intend to fast for the next day or so | 20:19 |
| GAN900 | s/has/have/ | 20:19 |
| infobot | GAN900 meant: timeless_mbp, have a nice evening. :) | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | GAN900: reading Lamentations is not exactly my def'n of a nice evening | 20:19 |
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| timeless_mbp | but i appreciate the intention | 20:19 |
| GAN900 | Hehe | 20:19 |
| timeless_mbp | trip0: anyway, i don't hide | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | you can find my bugs | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | you can contact me | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | you can review the logs | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | if you think you can help, poke me wednesday or so | 20:20 |
| timeless_mbp | and please note that i'm not a fan of symbian | 20:21 |
| timeless_mbp | i'm merely using it as a reference point | 20:21 |
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| CosmoHill | any meetings today? | 20:37 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: +1 for your mail | 22:07 |
| auke | Stskeeps: thanks | 22:08 |
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| auke | Stskeeps: I've got some more for you if you're interested in them. I send a few of these per month on average, usually to brilliant people who make cameo appearances on various projects' e-mail lists. | 22:09 |
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| Stskeeps | auke: a follow-up could ideally be 'where have you tried to contribute and what kept you from doing that if anything' as well to locate those who wants to genuinely contribute and find our where our holes are | 22:10 |
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| auke | on the xfce lists we had a guy claim (quote) "I am just a power with great vision. " | 22:11 |
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| auke | after I stopped laughing (took a while), he got a snark reply and never was seen again | 22:12 |
| auke | of course, he could have just gotten new glasses that day, makes you wonder. | 22:13 |
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| timeless_mbp | Abort: revision 48034 is already managed | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | abort: revision 48034 is already managed | 22:49 |
| timeless_mbp | oops, wrong window | 22:49 |
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| gert_ | Anyone here with knowledge about china tablets? | 23:03 |
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| AstralStorm | which ones? | 23:04 |
| e-yes | for enlarging or prolongation? | 23:05 |
| AstralStorm | nah, those are from india | 23:05 |
| AstralStorm | ;) | 23:05 |
| gert_ | lol | 23:05 |
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| gert_ | Well, Iæm looking for something whcic will enable me to have linux running with working graphics drivers | 23:06 |
| AstralStorm | is running meego on an android phone (rooted) possible? | 23:06 |
| gert_ | I believe cialis fail greatly in that department | 23:06 |
| AstralStorm | hm... | 23:06 |
| AstralStorm | most of the devices use the nasty PowerVR chip | 23:07 |
| AstralStorm | which doesn't really have the drivers | 23:07 |
| gert_ | I was seconds away from buying the SmartQ V5 when i realized that one flaw | 23:07 |
| arjan | gert_: you ought to be more specific than "china tablets" I suspect | 23:07 |
| arjan | you'll be hard pressed to find something without powderVR though | 23:07 |
| gert_ | Well I don't care about where they are made. | 23:07 |
| AstralStorm | Power(not eating sometimes)VR | 23:07 |
| gert_ | But about price | 23:07 |
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| AstralStorm | ? | 23:08 |
| AstralStorm | hmm | 23:08 |
| AstralStorm | I can't count in chinese currency | 23:08 |
| gert_ | Something in the SmartQ V7 price range would be great. Ie. < $ 500-ish | 23:09 |
| AstralStorm | Nokia n900 | 23:09 |
| AstralStorm | ;p | 23:09 |
| gert_ | Screen is too small. :P | 23:09 |
| arjan | connect it to your tv | 23:09 |
| AstralStorm | you didn't say "large tablet" | 23:09 |
| gert_ | And there is no way that is < 200 | 23:09 |
| gert_ | sorry | 23:09 |
| gert_ | 7"-ish | 23:09 |
| AstralStorm | it is. in Poland, it costs 2000 PLN which is about 500$ right now | 23:09 |
| e-yes | btw, http://www.google.ru/search?hl=ru&newwindow=1&client=firefox-a&hs=pec&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=500+yuan+to+USD&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= | 23:10 |
| AstralStorm | 500 yuan is nothing | 23:10 |
| e-yes | for instance:) | 23:10 |
| AstralStorm | still, most of those aren't really exportable | 23:10 |
| AstralStorm | thanks to chinese UI | 23:10 |
| AstralStorm | and keyboard where applicable | 23:11 |
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| AstralStorm | 2000 польских злотых = 628.99 доллара США (lol, PLN -> USD) | 23:11 |
| gert_ | After browsing some forums for SmartQ products, I am a bit surprised there are not more tablets with a decent community. The ekem tablets seems to be getting some, but they are not cabable of running anything more than Android (and barely that) | 23:12 |
| AstralStorm | tablets are useless really | 23:12 |
| AstralStorm | they aren't pocketable | 23:12 |
| AstralStorm | and aren't fit for real work | 23:12 |
| AstralStorm | what *is* useful is notebooks with a touchscreen | 23:13 |
| gert_ | They are bag-able. And they have a biger screen than my cellphone. | 23:14 |
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| AstralStorm | that makes them useful for what? | 23:14 |
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| gert_ | Video watching and nerding on the buss,mainly | 23:15 |
| AstralStorm | which is what a laptop is just as good at | 23:15 |
| ml-mobile | electronic scrabble boards! | 23:15 |
| AstralStorm | so what you actually want is a nice light laptop | 23:15 |
| gert_ | \o/ | 23:15 |
| gert_ | A laptop with a screen under 12" is IMHO useless for laptop-use | 23:16 |
| AstralStorm | preferably with a touchscreen, but those are expensive | 23:16 |
| AstralStorm | nope | 23:16 |
| gert_ | I have a 13,3 for laptop use | 23:16 |
| AstralStorm | you can connect it to an external monitor | 23:16 |
| gert_ | Yes, in my opnion they are ;P | 23:16 |
| AstralStorm | and keyboard | 23:16 |
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| gert_ | At uni? nay | 23:16 |
| AstralStorm | sure yeah | 23:16 |
| AstralStorm | still, they do work as laptops | 23:16 |
| AstralStorm | fits 720p | 23:16 |
| AstralStorm | the main problem is the keyboard and not the screen | 23:17 |
| gert_ | true | 23:17 |
| AstralStorm | there are a few with a good keyboard though, let me see... | 23:17 |
| gert_ | But I *have* a laptop. :P | 23:17 |
| AstralStorm | Asus Eee PC 1201T for one | 23:18 |
| AstralStorm | the beefy version | 23:18 |
| AstralStorm | :) | 23:18 |
| gert_ | Wel, again, I have a laptop | 23:18 |
| AstralStorm | and you really want a tablet that's not useful for anything really? :) | 23:19 |
| gert_ | And am currently looking for a tablet to have fun with | 23:19 |
| AstralStorm | hmmph | 23:19 |
| AstralStorm | get a wacom tablet instead | 23:19 |
| gert_ | u really don't like tablets, do u? | 23:19 |
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| AstralStorm | they're a solution waiting for a problem | 23:23 |
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| slaine | folkgs | 23:23 |
| slaine | gah | 23:23 |
| slaine | evening folkgs | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | lo slaine | 23:23 |
| * slaine cries | 23:23 | |
| slaine | I need sleep me thinks | 23:24 |
| * CosmoHill hugs slaine | 23:24 | |
| Stskeeps | mm, me too | 23:24 |
| * AstralStorm throws slaine some virtual beer | 23:24 | |
| slaine | off down to the cork office tomorrow | 23:24 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: sorted out my flash performance issue earlier today | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | cool | 23:25 |
| AstralStorm | flash+performance+issue = 100000 matches ;) | 23:25 |
| gert_ | If anyone here are mods or have on ready at their disposal under the bed, there is a spam topic in the meego forums that should be deleted. | 23:25 |
| gert_ | here: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=761 | 23:25 |
| AstralStorm | flash is one big performance issue | 23:25 |
| AstralStorm | Stskeeps: do you know if it's possible to shoehorn meego onto an android phone? | 23:26 |
| AstralStorm | (rooted one) | 23:26 |
| AstralStorm | which moron wrote that about the touchscreen on this non-MID? | 23:27 |
| AstralStorm | it's normal resistive | 23:27 |
| AstralStorm | just a good one | 23:27 |
| gert_ | AS: it should be | 23:27 |
| AstralStorm | the phone in question is SE Xperia X10 | 23:27 |
| gert_ | People have run a crimped version of Ubuntu ord Debian on different handsets | 23:28 |
| gert_ | hiw is the dev community for it? | 23:28 |
| AstralStorm | ? | 23:28 |
| AstralStorm | it's android | 23:28 |
| AstralStorm | the guys have rooted the phone and bumped it to android 2.1 by hand | 23:28 |
| slaine | Stskeeps: turned out to be the cpu freq modes where sub-optimal | 23:29 |
| AstralStorm | and that works fine btw, although is a bit bland | 23:29 |
| AstralStorm | without all the nice vendor additions | 23:29 |
| AstralStorm | so I bet I could put meego onto it and it should Just Work™ | 23:30 |
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| slaine | AstralStorm: the issues wasn't so much that flash performance sucks, that's a given. the problem was that it sucked more on my customized fedora spin versus a stock fedora spin | 23:30 |
| gert_ | Well, if they have made an asop rom, I guess they have some idea of what kernel tewaks, drivers and modules are needed for the hardware to function properly | 23:30 |
| AstralStorm | gert_: ... none whatsoever supposedly | 23:31 |
| AstralStorm | at least from the android kernel | 23:31 |
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| gert_ | But that probably differs quit a bit from the current Meego one. | 23:31 |
| AstralStorm | probably not in any important way | 23:31 |
| AstralStorm | so I could just use the original kernel | 23:32 |
| AstralStorm | the original is android 1.6 = 2.6.28 I think | 23:32 |
| gert_ | The easiest would of course be to try to run Meego on top of the kernel already in the phone | 23:32 |
| AstralStorm | yup | 23:32 |
| AstralStorm | I'll have a closer look | 23:32 |
| AstralStorm | once I actually get the phone for more than a testdrive | 23:33 |
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| gert_ | Damn, now I want to have a go with my desire | 23:33 |
| AstralStorm | hehe | 23:33 |
| gert_ | But i shall not. Then I need to buy a new everyday phone. | 23:33 |
| AstralStorm | desire would be great if not for the sucky camera, worse sound, battery and also really evil behavior in sunlight | 23:33 |
| AstralStorm | I'm not sure it's patterned amoled too, if it is, that is automatic fail | 23:34 |
| gert_ | What do you have against the sound? | 23:34 |
| gert_ | it is | 23:34 |
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| AstralStorm | that it's slightly worse than X10's, nothing really major | 23:34 |
| AstralStorm | oh, patterned amoled = evil | 23:34 |
| gert_ | if by patterned you meen there are fewer blue and red subpixels or whatever colors they were | 23:34 |
| AstralStorm | yes | 23:34 |
| AstralStorm | it's 2/3 the resolution | 23:34 |
| AstralStorm | no marketing will make me think anything else | 23:34 |
| gert_ | It's still nice if you don't look for it | 23:35 |
| gert_ | :P | 23:35 |
| AstralStorm | it is... so-so IMO | 23:35 |
| AstralStorm | it's noticeable with smaller font | 23:35 |
| AstralStorm | but the sunlight unreadability is the real killer :( | 23:35 |
| gert_ | Ah, yes, probably. But I donæt read much on it (ie. ebooks and such). The screen is a bit small for my taste for that | 23:35 |
| AstralStorm | oh no, it's bad enough to be unusable even for the large clock in sunlight | 23:36 |
| gert_ | Haha, i disagree. But then again, I own one, so i must | 23:36 |
| gert_ | I think the sound is quite nice, actuelly, If only HTC could, for ONCE, lear to SHIELD the f**ing audio curcuitry. | 23:36 |
| gert_ | You canæt really use anything low impedance with it | 23:37 |
| gert_ | It's like a $20 unbranded mp3 player in that department | 23:37 |
| AstralStorm | that has nothing to do with shielding | 23:38 |
| AstralStorm | and everything with poor impendance match | 23:38 |
| AstralStorm | most players can't handle even 32 Ohm | 23:38 |
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| AstralStorm | they get noisy. that's why I have my special 100 Ohm adapter ;p | 23:38 |
| gert_ | My problem is they have whitenoise | 23:39 |
| AstralStorm | they don't. | 23:39 |
| gert_ | with LOW-impedance in-ears | 23:39 |
| AstralStorm | that's bad impendance match | 23:39 |
| AstralStorm | add a resistor and you're fine | 23:39 |
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| AstralStorm | I recommend 80 or 100 ohm | 23:39 |
| gert_ | Hm, I always heard that was a shielding issue | 23:39 |
| AstralStorm | no, more like current problems | 23:40 |
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| AstralStorm | low impedance, same voltage = more current needed | 23:40 |
| AstralStorm | or the output stage of the amp gets overdriven | 23:40 |
| gert_ | that sounds backwards to me, although I'm sure you are correct. :P | 23:40 |
| AstralStorm | yes, it is backwards, but that's how it turns out with any non-specialist amps | 23:41 |
| gert_ | I'd think lower impedance meant it required less current | 23:41 |
| gert_ | I have a remote on the way that hopefully will add some resiistance. | 23:41 |
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| AstralStorm | not really enough | 23:41 |
| AstralStorm | use a so-called "airline adapter" | 23:42 |
| AstralStorm | which is a 100 Ohm resistor in disguise | 23:42 |
| gert_ | Funny think is I have beein thinking about trying adding resistance because it sound good with my headset. But I thought that was beacause the noise were to quiet to be "picked up" by heaqvuer sets | 23:42 |
| AstralStorm | you can also drive it out of a typical speaker output then :) | 23:42 |
| AstralStorm | like, a laptop one | 23:42 |
| gert_ | I thought airline adapter was that funny thing with two monoprongs | 23:43 |
| AstralStorm | not this one | 23:43 |
| AstralStorm | airlines don't use those anymore | 23:43 |
| AstralStorm | maybe they do in US or something ;) | 23:43 |
| AstralStorm | it's a normal minijack, just adds impedance | 23:44 |
| auke | gert_: that forum post was nuked. | 23:44 |
| gert_ | TAP and Lufthansa still does. too. :P | 23:44 |
| auke | gert_: thanks for reporting | 23:44 |
| gert_ | good | 23:44 |
| auke | gert_: next time, ping Dawn or Quim (qgil) | 23:45 |
| AstralStorm | btw, even excellent Firepod headphone amp has some noise at 32 Ohm | 23:45 |
| gert_ | It deserved it. It dissapointed me. Cause that's the sort of tablet I want Meego on | 23:45 |
| gert_ | will do | 23:45 |
| AstralStorm | and louder volume | 23:45 |
| AstralStorm | and that one is somewhat 120 dB SNR in the normal case | 23:45 |
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| AstralStorm | ;p | 23:45 |
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| AstralStorm | (more if A-weighted) | 23:45 |
| gert_ | I only find items like these: http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=airline+adaptor&_sacat=0&_stpos=&gbr=1&_odkw=linux+tablet&_osacat=0&bkBtn=&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313 | 23:46 |
| AstralStorm | w/e | 23:47 |
| AstralStorm | so feel free to solder your own | 23:47 |
| gert_ | Thanks for the impedance hint. :) | 23:47 |
| gert_ | One less thing to be irritated about | 23:48 |
| AstralStorm | what I'm driving is Sennheiser IE7 which is 32 Ohm | 23:49 |
| AstralStorm | most headphone outputs are designed to allow a wide range of headphones | 23:49 |
| AstralStorm | most of which fall around 120 Ohm | 23:49 |
| AstralStorm | they really should start adding a low impedance mode | 23:49 |
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| AstralStorm | of course... price :) | 23:50 |
| AstralStorm | I know only about one mp3 player that has such a mode | 23:50 |
| gert_ | It has never been a problem with any of the dedicated mp3 players I have had | 23:50 |
| gert_ | althought they are few. :P | 23:50 |
| AstralStorm | they're not as noisy, but it's still detectable | 23:51 |
| AstralStorm | most of those are about 80 dB noise | 23:51 |
| AstralStorm | add the right impedance match and they go ~16 bit | 23:51 |
| AstralStorm | that is, 90 dB | 23:51 |
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| AstralStorm | I'm still using my antique irivier T30 | 23:53 |
| AstralStorm | want to replace it (and n810, and the cellphone) with a new device | 23:54 |
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| gert_ | There will never bee a good all-in-one | 23:54 |
| AstralStorm | well, X10 is really close | 23:55 |
| AstralStorm | it's only missing multitouch and a hardware keyboard | 23:56 |
| AstralStorm | and the latter I can easily replace with that bluetooth keyboard I have | 23:56 |
| gert_ | yet another thing to carry | 23:56 |
| AstralStorm | yes, but not necessary | 23:56 |
| gert_ | I find the HTC_IME MOD keyboard to be really good | 23:56 |
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| AstralStorm | yeah | 23:57 |
| gert_ | for a touchscreen one | 23:57 |
| AstralStorm | although I know better ones | 23:57 |
| AstralStorm | samsung swype is awesome | 23:57 |
| AstralStorm | but I can steal the idea (not patented) and implement it better | 23:57 |
| gert_ | Those keyboards have a tendency to not support norwegian | 23:57 |
| AstralStorm | uh? there are a few with configurable keymaps | 23:57 |
| gert_ | patents are evil. | 23:58 |
| AstralStorm | no, patents are nice, if not overused | 23:58 |
| gert_ | Yeah, I have heard some have showed up. Will have to try a few soon. | 23:58 |
| AstralStorm | they're a bit too long | 23:58 |
| AstralStorm | :) | 23:58 |
| gert_ | yeah but as only incompetent idiots seem to work at US patent offices, they are evil | 23:58 |
| AstralStorm | yup | 23:58 |
| AstralStorm | they'll grant a patent for farting if presented in a nice form | 23:59 |
| gert_ | or anything faintly related to techonolgy, of which they understand not nealy as much as an average mouldy teabag | 23:59 |
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